Rap Music

Wondering what your voices are on this.

I can't decide who I think is best, but I give lots of respect to Eminem's skills. He's got the hardest rhymes and can rap to rhythm so it's catchy. He was near my place recently, it's too bad I missed him. I intended to get tickets.

I know Linkin Park is more of a metal band, but emcee Mike's got good rhymes that I can really relate to.

Ja Rule's got really nice tunes, like in "Livin it Up" and "Mezmerized" but it fucking pisses me off how a lot of his lyrics are just sexual and shallow.

And P. Diddy has little skill...

There's this new Chink rapper break out, Jin. Just some of his songs are good, but they're deep. And he's an extremelyyyy good freestyle artist.

My tastes in music goes by song, rather than artists, unless most of their songs on their albums are good.

Rap doesn't qualify as music.

There was a time when it did. Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash....even Tupac...they were artists.

Today's rappers are trash. Dre ruined it.

Brady got it right, but Kanye West is good. At least he uses his imagination.

A form of rap im fond of is when Rap is mixed with Electronica. Thats Raponica!

mc chris is pretty fucking good. He raps about shit that MATTERS!! Like Boba Fett and Robitussin.

Rap = rythmic swearing

R - Retarded

A- Assholes

P- Posing

lol

I can't stand rap. All that swearing and I don't even know what the hell they are saying. For music we get an infinitely looped synth line with some drum machine rhythyms, all the while we hear some black guy yelling random shit about sex and drugs and whatnot. Rap used to be good, no it's overused comercialized (sp?) SHIT.

No i think RAP in fact is really cool. I myself is a fan of electronica, and when you censor all the swearing in a RAP "hit" you get a really cool electronica song!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AirRick101
I know Linkin Park is more of a metal band, but emcee Mike's got good rhymes that I can really relate to.

---

Mike Shinoda is my favourite rapper. You can hear what he's saying, it's rythmic AND it makes sense. I also respect Will Smith for not using curse words in his raps. He is also a rapper that you can actually understand what he's saying.

There are quite a few good early rap songs that i like such as Rapper's Delight, Can I Kick It, Shake it, etc...

Some rap is good, some is not so good. There's no need for all this dissing, yo
don't be a hater, etc blah blah blah

I wasn't really around to really appreciate what rap used to be. It's hard to say. The music in today's rap is better than the rappers themselves, yes.

There was a time I dissed most rap, I thought it was just talking with music in the background, but didn't appreciate it until I could understand why people liked it. I got kind of used to the swearing, although I don't like doing it so much myself.

Rap is not masterfully done, or at least, almost never done that way anymore. Because it has a better rep as being a freestyle art.

I enjoy rap music if it has a message and isnt just about calling women 'ho's' while they shake their asses in front of the screen like a peice of cold meat. I agree with most off the comments above, the music has lost its meaning and is all about consumerism and getting rich $$$$$$$. Its not about somthing politlcally powerful or passionate expression anymore like it used to be (Eminem is good to a degree) its all about selling Nike Trainers while wearing gold around your neck and conforming to the stereotypical image of black culture:- "MOFO MURDERS"

Give me a Spike Lee Joint anyday :wink:

Do The Right Thing "WORD UP"

Side-note: Wu Tang Clan and Outkast are Excellent!

"Chink", "some black guy" - do I sense some racial undertones?

Alot of you seem really umm..inexperienced with rap music, for lack of a better description that wouldn't piss anybody off.

If you are interested in rap music but are looking for something decent that's not all commercialized try Talib Kweli, Common, Kanye West, Dilated Peoples, Slum Village, (I also like) Shyne, Papoose, and Siagon.

Quote:

---

Gargen Wrote:

Rap = rythmic swearing

R - Retarded

A- Assholes

P- Posing

lol [/b]

---

People that know nothing about rap except the few BS songs they hear while flipping passed MTV or BET or talked about by their other rap-hating friends should learn not to make ignorant comments about a genre they know nothing about. Makes you look Really unintelligent.

Quote:

---

Deeptrance Wrote:

I can't stand rap. All that swearing and I don't even know what the hell they are saying. For music we get an infinitely looped synth line with some drum machine rhythyms, all the while we hear some black guy yelling random shit about sex and drugs and whatnot. Rap used to be good, no it's overused comercialized (sp?) SHIT.[/b]

---

Unfortunately that is the way the industry wants it to go. More CEOs are getting invovled with the \"Give the 'artists' more money so they won't ask so many questions about acting/behaving a certain way\" business philosophy. And unfortunately that 'certain way' is to keep them depicting rap-artists as shallow, materialistic, violence-oriented, sexist Jokes. (which most of them now are, or are becoming.)
True Hip Hop is one of the most powerful artistic tools there is. It couples deep, broad conscious poems set to beats (these beats are the very foundation of music itself. Not everything with an electric percussion and synth is concidered rap music. Nor does all rap music require electric guitar/drums and synth.) The Roots is one of the greatest hip-hop groups ever. And they are a live band.
But the music is Secondary in true rap/hip-hop. (Commercially the music is the most important thing, because as long as you're 'bobbing your' head, you don't give a damn what the person is saying, which is the tail that all the shitty modern rappers are riding on. The whole Dre/50 Cent connection proves this.) But a truely Awe Inspiring rap can be lyricized over a beat on a trashcan.
To say rap holds no power and its just \"some black guy\" spitting out meaningless words means you don't understand the power of words. Edgar Allen Poe/Shakespeare/Martin Luther King weren't just \"Some guys with pens and paper.\" You'll hear the most intelligent, well thought out Truths in Hip Hop, written by artists who use Unfathomable blends of metaphors, tonguetwisters, speed, heartfelt emotions and a number of other impressive tactics in their rap music. You simply have to have access to their music..
..the sad part is that the system doesn't Want you to have access to their music. Industry-run labels supress the artistic freedom of rappers to keep them in the same stereotypical public view. And as the masses are bombarded with this onslaught of \"Kill my enemies while sellin dope to get more cheese so the bitches all wanna ride in my G6 while sipping Krystal (sp) and bathing in burberry cologne\" they look at all the good-talented-Positive-masterfully sculpted hip hop (the ones they make nearly impossible to discover) as ....\"too Positive.\" or \"I can't even understand what he's saying.\" So they go back to bumping \"Get Dough. Get bitches. Blast Techs.\" (Which in turn makes modern rappers more popular, and the CEOs happier. What a sickening paradox.)
There is a Whole World of hip-hop out there, mostly hidden underground. And of this Entire World, you'll only get to experience the filthiest ghettos of a Single City by listening to mainstream rap.

Quote:

---

themindsi
If you are interested in rap music but are looking for something decent that's not all commercialized try Talib Kweli, Common, Kanye West, Dilated Peoples, Slum Village, (I also like) Shyne, Papoose, and Siagon.[/b]

---

You got good taste. 8)
The best way to find out about Real Hip Hop (the kind the material world Doesn't Want You to Hear) is to know someone that listens to it. Most people will go their entire lives without knowing what real rap is like, because they're force-fed the processed Bullshit thats made to blind you from what is still a Very Real and Powerful artistic phenomenon. (most of the best lyricists alive set most of their music to using wit to verbally DESTROY the bullshit artists you hear today. Hehe.)

Talib Kweli is probably my favorite artist right now. Also Mos Def, Common, Dilated Peoples, The Roots, Pharoah Monche, KRS-1, The Black Eyed Peas, Immortal Technique...the list goes on and on.

For all those that hate rap music...Check out those artists...and send me your letters of apology whenever you get around to it. I'm in no rush.

:mrgreen:

Oh..and about "not understanding what they are saying..." Once you find artists worth listening to, you'll play their songs over and over Making Sure you get damn near every word. That is the whole difference behind true Talent, and the Bullshit that you hear on the radio right before changing the station in disgust.

"Niggaz With Knowledge is more dangerous than Niggaz With Guns. They make the guns easy to get and try to keep niggaz dumb." ~Talib Kweli

^ ^ ^ Great response, very impressed. This actually made me smile. :bravo:

I really can't stand to listen to rap, most of the time. A lot of my mates are really into it (and they listen to "indie" rap, so it's not just the commerical shit I'm going against) , but I really can't get into it. I'm a fan of trip-hop and hip-hop beats (my main genre is breakbeat - a form of dance) and they heavily influence my producing.
As someone else said, Raponica (did i get it right? lol) is something I do like however. I recently purchased "Evil Nine's" brilliant album. Rap is good, when its not about killing people and when it's against a proper production job.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kichu
^ ^ ^ Great response, very impressed. This actually made me smile. :bravo:

---

:thanks:

And while we're on the subject, anybody wanna give me some crits on my latest rhyme? :bowdown:

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic....p=236602#236602

Quote:

---

Phallam wrote:
I really can't stand to listen to rap, most of the time. A lot of my mates are really into it (and they listen to \"indie\" rap, so it's not just the commerical shit I'm going against) , but I really can't get into it. I'm a fan of trip-hop and hip-hop beats (my main genre is breakbeat - a form of dance) and they heavily influence my producing.
As someone else said, Raponica (did i get it right? lol) is something I do like however. I recently purchased \"Evil Nine's\" brilliant album. Rap is good, when its not about killing people and when it's against a proper production job. [/b]

---

I just wanted to say that Breakbeats and Hip-Hop are tied for first in my "most favorite genre" category. 8) I just got into producing and spinning records as a hobby and these are the two that I focus mainly on. I think it is good that a lot of hip-hop culture has made its way into (and helped spawn much of) electronica. (I don't think you'd ever hear me calling it Raponica, though. LOL) But yeah, Trip-Hop, Acid Jazz, Drum and Bass, House, Jungle, Breaks. I love how Hip-Hop has mixed in with all of these genres. Can you imagine Breaks without scratching or Hip-Hop samples? A lot of it just wouldn't be the same. Of course there is a lot of non-hip-hop related electronica out there, don't get me wrong, but I love the ecclectic stuff. :)

^ ^ ^ I think you would have a lot to talk about with my boyfriend. Same style, ideas, philosophy, etc. Check out his myspace:

http://www.myspace.com/ozzius

edited

50 cent in tah club YoYo.
Bitches and hoes

Tu-dududu

See my rolex
blingbling bolex

Shake that ass
Eat some bass!

Yo

Yo

Yo.

---------------

Above is the average interlect of a song by 50 cent. 50 cent Raped what was left of rap-music.

I like Eminem, and the black eyed peas...i also am a fan of outkast. I wouldn't say i didn't like rap, i just don't like ALL of it...
I find i'm getting into what they call 'hip hop' i watched a great film called 'save the last dance' and that kinda made me think, opened my mind...
Eminem talks a lot of sense...i love his latest single, i'd love to get his album 'Curtain call'. I really hope he doesn't stop writing, i think he's a bit of a genius. I wish i could write and reach people like that...

Buck 65 ... thats all i got...

You spelt it wrong, You know how knife has a silent k? Well rap has a silent C.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed
You spelt it wrong, You know how knife has a silent k? Well rap has a silent C.

---

Hmmm..........lame.

I'm curious to know what rap you're specifically referring to. Can you provide artist names?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed
You spelt it wrong, You know how knife has a silent k? Well rap has a silent C.

---

Wow...that really WAS lame. :shakehead2:

You know what I love about statements like that? In a group of people ignorant to the many dimensions of something like rap, an unfounded "follow the flock" laughter would emerge. A bunch of people sitting around laughing at their judgements of something they know nothing about, on deeper than an ultimately cosmetic level, in an attempt to place themselve higher than those interested in something they have no intention on taking part of. It's funny to them, because there is no one there to tell them how ignorant they are being. Try to be cute by doing that in front of people who are a little more aware about the subject, you'll quickly make rank as the "moron of the group."

Just something to think about. :wink:

Glad you mentioned The Roots. ?uestlove :fro: is probably one of my favorite
drummers. I always wanted to play drums on a rap project !

Hell yeah. The Roots are the Shit. 8)

Black Thought is one of my most favorite lyricists alive. You can seriously get lost in some of the pictures he paints with his words. Good Shit.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Levi1057
Buck 65 ... thats all i got...

---

Very cool.

I'm a big Gorillaz fan too.

I used to hate rap with about as much passion as I disliked country music. Luckily I got introduced to some pretty good artists like Jurasic 5, The Roots, and Canibus. I haven't seen anyone mention that they have heard Canibus but if you haven't, do yourself a favor and check it out. He is probably one of the best and most intellectual rap artists that I have ever heard. I haven't heard a whole lot of rap from many artists but of all the stuff I have ever heard whether it be in a friend's car who likes rap or out at the club, nothing comes close to what this guy is capable of.

You know, I'll be honest: It took me a little while to get into Canibus, but I think it is because of that fact that, when I'd first started hearing him rap, it was back when I wasn't as aware of the better hip-hop artists as I am now. I couldn't get passed his voice, to tell you the truth. Lol. But I give him more respect now that I've heard from better artists, and I've actually had the attention span to sit down and listen to his words. Canibus is very tight. Very tight. I've got some of his freestyles and he is, without a doubt, one of the most talented lyricists out there.

Jurassic 5s " A Day At the Races" might be my favorite rap. It flows so well over
the bass line. The whole "Power in Numbers" album is great. I saw them about
3 years ago. Too big a venue , I thought. Would prefer seeing them in a more intimate
setting.

I don't really like rap. Mabye its good for a party, but after a while its just....annoying..........Eminem is good though. The rest of it....same old trash.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by eyeofgames
I don't really like rap. Mabye its good for a party, but after a while its just....annoying..........Eminem is good though. The rest of it....same old trash.

---

Wow. Oneironaut ? Want I should ring the school bell ?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by R.Carter

Wow. Oneironaut ? Want I should ring the school bell ?

---

LMFAO. Please do.
Maybe then eyeofgames can clue us in on the vast number of artists he knows of, knows songs titles of, and lyrics he's taken the time to listen to, which would help us further understand his knowledge of "The Rest of It." :roll:

Ding!Ding! Folks. Schools In session.
Your teacher this semester will be Oneironaut. Mr. Oneironaut to you, eyeofgames.

I am not sure if this counts but I am into Rage Against the Machine. They are really the only rap I listen to if they are considered rap. They are pretty sweet and Tom Morello (their guitarist) is amazing, he can make such weird noises with his guitar (no samples or synths are used to make the sounds)

I consider Rage a Rap/Rock hybrid. It definitely counts, to me. You can't underplay their lead's rap medium, so it definitely falls into that category. The good thing about that, is that it just goes to show that rapping doesn't define what a song is About (Money, bitches, gansta livin, or "Trash" as people call it) it is a way of expressing whatever is on your mind, which the lead singer of Rage did damn well. People like to try not to look at what he was doing as rapping, because he was in a rock group, but he's a rapper, no more no less, and damn good at it. That's why Rage is one of my favorite groups. They give rap a good name, and help display what it is really about, not what mainstream heads only Perceive it to be.

...But I'm not calling any names, here. >.> -cough-cough-

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut


LMFAO. Please do.
Maybe then eyeofgames can clue us in on the vast number of artists he knows of, knows songs titles of, and lyrics he's taken the time to listen to, which would help us further understand his knowledge of \"The Rest of It.\" :roll:

---

Yeah, no s***. It's like people don't bother to read the previous posts and open their minds enough to think "hey, this guys sounds like he knows what he's talking about, maybe I'll listen to some of the stuff he's mentioned and see what I think of it."

PEOPLE! If all you ever hear is 50 cent, then you have no concept of what rap music is!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kichu


Yeah, no s***. It's like people don't bother to read the previous posts and open their minds enough to think \"hey, this guys sounds like he knows what he's talking about, maybe I'll listen to some of the stuff he's mentioned and see what I think of it.\"

---

You know, I've posted on like 4 other posts about rap music where people come on with the "I obviously don't understand rap but I hate it" attitude, and I even though I do my best to drop names of good, more underground artists, I don't think ONE person has done that, Kichu. Many will just avoid the thread from here on and continue thinking the same way they already do. :(

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut
Many will just avoid the thread from here on and continue thinking the same way they already do. :(

---

guilty :lol:

Music is such a personal experience, that I really think changing someones opinion on a type of music is impossible

I, for instance, have to discover things on my own
if someone says to me
"you've got to check out this rock band, they're really good"

more often than not, I won't
My own prejudices kick in
"Bah, rock is a black music form bastardised by the whites, most people think elvis invented it for christ's sake - morons"

The band might be the best thing since sliced bread, but I still won't listen to them

However, it's a completely different story if I discover new music on my own.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ynot+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ynot)</div>

Quote:

---

<!--QuoteBegin-Oneironaut

---

Quote:

---

Many will just avoid the thread from here on and continue thinking the same way they already do. :(

---

guilty :lol:

Music is such a personal experience, that I really think changing someones opinion on a type of music is impossible

I, for instance, have to discover things on my own
if someone says to me
\"you've got to check out this rock band, they're really good\"

more often than not, I won't
My own prejudices kick in
\"Bah, rock is a black music form bastardised by the whites, most people think elvis invented it for christ's sake - morons\"

The band might be the best thing since sliced bread, but I still won't listen to them

However, it's a completely different story if I discover new music on my own.[/b]

---

Really? I understand that it's a great thing when you discover something on your own and a lot of the time I like to do things myself, my way. But I also keep my mind open to the fact that I'm not the only one who has an idea of what's worth spending time on and what's not. Think about when you've discovered something amazing and you want to share it with other people because you know it would be well worth it for your friends or whoever to know about it and appreciate it (music, food, etc). But if their first response is always, "no, I don't want to listen because I didn't discover it on my own," that would piss me off. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't think there's anything wrong with listening to suggestions from people. You can let someone give you an idea and then you can do the research yourself and decide for yourself why you do or don't like it. You don't have to let anyone else be involved if you don't want and then it truly has become your opinion, decision etc. Just because they guided you into it shouldn't taint the experience.

And although music is a personal experience, I completely disagree that changing someone's opinion of music is impossible. It just depends on who you're talking to. I often find that if I hate an artist or song, and a friend loves them and explains to me why they love the song, artist I can often see or hear what they're seeing or hearing. If we listent to the track together and they explain the great parts and they're really into it, I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of the time I will get what they're talking about and change my opinion.

Their's so much great music out there, it would be impossible for you to know all the music worth listening to. You just have to change your perspective. And it's well worth it too. I'd hate to show up at a club that was playing salsa music or something and be that person sitting on the side saying I'm not really into this music. I want to be able to switch gears and be like, "yeah, tonight I love salsa music and I'm dancing my ass off."

Life is too short to limit the experience of beautiful things like music.

THE END :wink:

Guess I'm just stubborn :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kichu


Really? *I understand that it's a great thing when you discover something on your own and a lot of the time I like to do things myself, my way. *But I also keep my mind open to the fact that I'm not the only one who has an idea of what's worth spending time on and what's not. *Think about when you've discovered something amazing and you want to share it with other people because you know it would be well worth it for your friends or whoever to know about it and appreciate it (music, food, etc). *But if their first response is always, \"no, I don't want to listen because I didn't discover it on my own,\" that would piss me off. *It just doesn't make sense. *

I don't think there's anything wrong with listening to suggestions from people. *You can let *someone give you an idea and then you can do the research yourself and decide for yourself why you do or don't *like it. *You don't have to let anyone else be involved if you don't want and then it truly has become your opinion, decision etc. *Just because they guided you into it shouldn't taint the experience. *

And although music is a personal experience, I completely disagree that changing someone's opinion of music is impossible. *It just depends on who you're talking to. *I often find that if I hate an artist or song, and a friend loves them and explains to me why they love the song, artist I can often see or hear what they're seeing or hearing. *If we listent to the track together and they explain the great parts and they're really into it, I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of the time I will get what they're talking about and change my opinion.

Their's so much great music out there, it would be impossible for you to know all the music worth listening to. *You just have to change your perspective. *And it's well worth it too. *I'd hate to show up at a club that was playing salsa music or something and be that person sitting on the side saying I'm not really into this music. *I want to be able to switch gears and be like, \"yeah, tonight I love salsa music and I'm dancing my ass off.\"

Life is too short to limit the experience of beautiful things like music.

THE END * :wink:

---

Very nicely said. :goodjob2:

Bad Tony. Bad Bad Tony. lol

Anyway, changing peoples' minds about music is far from impossible, it's something I almost consider a hobby. 8) And, Ynot, for someone who seems so well versed as you do, I'm surprised you aren't more open to experiencing more (possibly better) music through people who may know many of the great artists that you don't. I think it'd be pretty bad to let your pride of wanting to find it on your own keep you away from discovering those who you might come to consider the greatest artists you've ever heard, just because someone introduced them to you.
...I dunno...maybe it makes since to you, somehow, so don't t hink I'm bashing you for it. To each his own.

Well......
maybe hours and hours spent riffling through musty record crates in dark basements in seedy back alleys in the depths of suburban cities has tainted my views :lol:

rap and its messages to younger generations and its affiliation to gangs has put a demise to urban growth. Among other things! JMO

:barf:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Howetzer
rap and its messages to younger generations and its affiliation to gangs has put a demise to urban growth. Among other things! *JMO

:barf:

---

That is not the extent of rap.
Bare with the analogy but that is like saying "all video games are for kids, and we should ban the video games that portray violence and adult subject matter" like so many of the parents out there that are clueless of the entire World of "Just For Adults" games and that they are rated as clearly as movies.
Hip Hop (True Hip Hop, not the Gangsta shit with a corporate beat that pop-culture knows of as Hip Hop) is the other side of the spectrum. I hope you take the time to look into some of those artists, and contrast them to what You already know of as rap, before you pass judgement on every piece of spoken word over a beat as the Rap you're referring to.
If you're seriously interested on finding out you might actually be Wrong, I can post some more artists and tracks you might want to give a shot.
But that's Your call. :wink:

Rap isn't music

or it depends what your rapping about

today all people rap about is sex, drugs, gang.

if your rap about something else like a lost loved one or w/e /saddness
i can understand that.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamcatcher05
Rap isn't *music

today all people rap about is sex, drugs, gang.

---

That's a Lie.

For the love of God, are you f'king people even paying attention? :|

ah, give it up Oneironaut
everyone knows rap is a load of bollocks
listen to some decent stuff :lol:

[quote]

No Oneironaut. I was indeed generalizing. But this is what is popular right now. This is what I hear on the radio and see on the TV. I am sure there are many artists that have a better message.
I am into the grunge scene. So saying Alice in Chains, Nirvana and such portrays a good message (Do drugs until you overdose) is, in my case being hypocritical.

oh for god's sake
that's like saying action films are bad cause they encourage people to go out and shoot other people
it's a film - it's meant to be entertaining

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut


That is not the extent of rap.
Bare with the analogy but that is like saying \"all video games are for kids, and we should ban the video games that portray violence and adult subject matter\" like so many of the parents out there that are clueless of the entire World of \"Just For Adults\" games and that they are rated as clearly as movies.
Hip Hop (True Hip Hop, not the Gangsta shit with a corporate beat that pop-culture knows of as Hip Hop) is the other side of the spectrum. I hope you take the time to look into some of those artists, and contrast them to what You already know of as rap, before you pass judgement on every piece of spoken word over a beat as the Rap you're referring to.
If you're seriously interested on finding out you might actually be Wrong, I can post some more artists and tracks you might want to give a shot.
But that's Your call. :wink:

---

No Oneironaut. I was indeed generalizing. But this is what is popular right now. This is what I hear on the radio and see on the TV. I am sure there are many artists that have a better message.
I am into the grunge scene. So saying Alice in Chains, Nirvana and such portrays a good message (Do drugs until you overdose) is, in my case being hypocritical.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ynot
ah, give it up Oneironaut
everyone knows rap is a load of bollocks
listen to some decent stuff :lol:

---

:P

Lol, nah. The only load of bullocks I can see is the fact that so many people, under any other subject, would value their own awareness on the subject at hand. It seems, however, with subjects like rap, people prefer ignorance over perspective. I find it, not only frustrating, but astounding at the same time.
If I was to be ignorant enough to go up to a marine and say something like “the military is for idiots, all you do is PT and learn to shoot guns,” I’d get my ass beat for being such an utter moron. As somebody that at least Tries to keep my ignorance in check, you’d never find me going up to a marine and saying something that stupid. I at least have the structure of mind to realize that it is much more complex than it may appear to be, superficially. Many people choose to remain ignorant about rap because it doesn’t mean shit to them, anyway. They were (are) conditioned to hate rap, and that is what they’ll always do because it is in their social status quo to do so. Something about the “path of least resistance” comes to mind. How many people do you think would take the time to expand their knowledge of rap, find out that they were actually shrouded from the true talents behind it, and have to fight their way through the criticism of their unknowing peers who don’t understand their friend’s sudden interest in rap music? It would be like doing what I’m doing now to people that choose to bash something that they hardly understand, because they have no incentive to believe otherwise.

I put time and thought into my written rhymes and I spit with as much conviction, technicality and style as I possibly can when I'm freestyling, so I don't think I'll ever \"give up\" defending a misunderstood genre from the people who choose to ignorantly throw even more dirt on its name than the industry does. It's like a convicted drummer just bending over and taking it when some nobody says that drumming is just \"a bunch of dirty, grungy, long haired, druggie punk-rockers banging sticks around on drums\" as if there is no such thing as a talented drummer. I guess some people understand that concept, some don't, and some Do understand it, but choose to ignore it, while, at the same time, getting all aggy when someone calls them ignorant.
I may be wrong, but I think unbridled ignorance such as that stems beyond just the subject of rap music, and should cause one to look further into themself and wonder how deep their desire to bash something, that they're told constantly that they don't fully understand, really goes.

:hrm:

Quote:

---

Howetzer wrote:
No Oneironaut. I was indeed generalizing. But this is what is popular right now. This is what I hear on the radio and see on the TV.[/b]

---

And since when is "pop culture" synonymous with "tasteful." Finding good, thought-provoking, relevant, soulful rap is one of the millions of reasons to Get the Hell AWAY from pop culture. 8)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ynot


oh for god's sake
that's like saying action films are bad cause they encourage people to go out and shoot other people
it's a film - it's meant to be entertaining

---

Well if you can tell me that all these reality shows action films, video games and \"most\" popular music is not degrading to the general mobilization of our culture , then you and I stand on opposite sides of the fence.
You don't have do be a child for this continuous bombardment to effect a persons train of thought.
Sex sells and so does violence. And media, video games and music. all have gone too far.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oniernaut
And since when is \"pop culture\" synonymous with \"tasteful.\" Finding good, thought-provoking, relevant, soulful rap is one of the millions of reasons to Get the Hell AWAY from pop culture.

---

This may be true. But just as humans eventually ruin everything they, each year push the limit one step further.~ then call it freedom of speech & press. And an expression of art. Get real! :shakehead2:

Quote:

---

Howetzer wrote: This may be true. But just as humans eventually ruin everything they, each year push the limit one step further.~ then call it freedom of speech & press. And an expression of art. Get real! Shake Head 2 [/b]

---

Hip Hop is art.
"I'm so icey because the bitches wanna ride in my swervin g6, and I got guns yo" is not art.
It is also not true hip hop. It's processed bullshit. This ain't Wisconsin and the cheese is definitely Not cheese.
Rap isn't changing, it isn't getting ruined. The worldly perception of it is. The way rap is Portrayed is what is deterriorating. Not rap, itself. The positive, multi-dimensional rap is becoming harder and harder for mainstream society to find, so that the easy to write, easy to produce, easily received, trash can gain the ear of the masses. That is not to say the good (good being in my opinion) rap/hip hop is no longer being made. It's being veiled. So much so, that many people can only identify it as "old school," despite the fact that there are still albums being made, mixed tapes and performances being done by some of the most talented lyricists the world will never see. Keep in mind, the Majority of the population is of mildly- to sub-adequate IQ by the standards of probably Anyone with influence, especially the large number of people that listen to "gangsta rap" on a regular basis. Promoting the Bullshit end of rap while making the positive, empowering, awakening, literarilly (sp) potent works damn-near unreachable not only keeps the money flowing in with not much production value, but it Keeps the sedated I.Q. and sense of values to degenerate the social group.

Every time one of you folks come into a conversation stating that "Rap is stupid" while knowingly, or unknowingly not even being the Least Bit informed about the side of rap that is eclipsed by the manufactured mainstream, it is like being someone (doesn't matter their color) that can't stand white surpremacy, after growing up around a community of primarily white surpremists, and choosing to hate the Entire white race, instead of realizing that there are still white people in the world that aren't racist.

There is a whole other side of the moon. At least have the respect to not grade rap as a whole. Generalizing to the point of "rap is this and rap is that" is like saying "whites are this and whites are that" or "blacks are this and blacks are that," just another form of stereotypical profiling that is absolutely Not True under the superficial (what most people perceive) level.

Almost in every Topic you must generalize to some degree. There are always exceptions and grey area.
But majority rules.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut


That's a Lie.

For the love of God, are you f'king people even paying attention? :|

---

Sorry... Didn't mean to offend you

[quote]Almost in every Topic you must generalize to some degree. There are always exceptions and grey area.
But majority rules.

Huh, well I guess this is just where we don't agree. I think that specificity rules. I think being lazy about specifying changes the whole meaning of your point of view.

If I were to say "Fat people need to just learn to stop eating so much," it would completely detour the listener from the fact that there is such a thing as genetic obesity. Two completely different things.

Majority rules if you are into stereotypes and profiling, and not respecting life for its many complexities and interchangable variables. This is the basis of prejudice.

But, as I said before, just our opinions, and to each his own.

So, anyone hear about that whole Brian Welsh from Korn vs 50 Cent thing? :huh2:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut


Huh, well I guess this is just where we don't agree. I think that specificity rules. I think being lazy about specifying changes the whole meaning of your point of view.

If I were to say \"Fat people need to just learn to stop eating so much,\" it would completely detour the listener from the fact that there is such a thing as genetic obesity. Two completely different things.

Majority rules if you are into stereotypes and profiling, and not respecting life for its many complexities and interchangable variables. This is the basis of prejudice.

But, as I said before, just our opinions, and to each his own.

So, anyone hear about that whole Brian Welsh from Korn vs 50 Cent thing? :huh2:

---

Well considering the fact that we are talking about rap music in the context of this thread, I should be specific.
I took it out of context and associated it with an entire genre that I see doing harm to the generalized public.

Specifics, eh?
righty ho....

DJ B-Roc - War

And (shameless plug) everything on my Mix #4
Ynot - Mix # 4

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamcatcher05


Sorry... Didn't mean to offend you

---

'sokay. It's just a subject I'm pretty passionate about and I just hate when people jump up like "It's all garbage" like nothing said in the thread in it's defense is valid. No harm done, though. :cheers:

Oh god, I <3 Oneironaut. While I prefer other genres, (post-rock, experimental / avant garde, indie folk), no genre of music is without its merits, including rap. There are plenty of literate rappers out there, (Gift of Gab, Deltron, Doseone, Why?) but unfortunately, they aren't what gets the mainstreams attention.

Also, a sampler is just as much an instrument as a guitar. So, saying that "rap isn't music" is pretty troglodytic.

Furthermore, saying that "all rap is bad, but I like Linkin Park" invalidates any points you have.

That is all.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by FantomeCiel
Oh god, I <3 Oneironaut. While I prefer other genres, (post-rock, experimental / avant garde, indie folk), no genre of music is without its merits, including rap. There are plenty of literate rappers out there, (Gift of Gab, Deltron, Doseone, Why?) but unfortunately, they aren't what gets the mainstreams attention.

Also, a sampler is just as much an instrument as a guitar. So, saying that \"rap isn't music\" is pretty troglodytic.

Furthermore, saying that \"all rap is bad, but I like Linkin Park\" invalidates any points you have.

That is all.

---

Where are you in Ohio FantomeCie. East side of Cleveland for me! :offtopic:

I thought this might help a few people out: :D

Posted by Robert
Rap News Network Staff
7/3/2004 9:43:36 AM


Hip-hop, without a doubt, is the rock-and-roll music of this generation.

And as with its rabble-rousing predecessor, some folks have maligned this genre as the devil incarnate.

But the 30-year-old genre often is misrepresented. It isn't just some rapper booty dancing with half-naked women, swigging fine champagne from the bottle and wearing the kind of gaudy jewelry that doubles as weight training equipment. It's a lot more than that.

Fast food joints use rap to peddle cheeseburgers. Slang terms such as ''dis'' that have roots in rap now are in the mainstream American lexicon. Hip-hop is omnipresent.

There are rappers who specialize in weaving their words into stories that inform. And some only care about getting the party started — and where's the harm in that?

So parents, consider this your manual to a previously foreign dimension, a bridge-builder between you and your kids.

Lucky for you, we won't be giving a quiz — this time.

Hip-hop versus rap

Are they terms for the same thing? No, says Davey D, nationally renowned hip-hop historian. He acknowledges that some people think rap is a more frivolous form of hip-hop, but thinks ''that's a false definition. One is part of a whole. Rap is part of a larger entity we call hip-hop, which is a culture.''

Hip-hop n., an American cultural movement composed of four main parts: breakdancing and graffiti art along with two more well-known aspects known as hip-hop music; they are rapping (emceeing) and DJ-ing.

Rap v., the act of saying rhymes to the actual beat of the music.


Styles upon styles upon styles

Through the good folks at allmusic.com we were able to compile a list of different hip-hop styles. Remember, hip-hop styles are loose and artists often make music that can't be classified with one label.

Alternative: Often eclectic rap that deviates from the traditional hardcore, gangsta, pop and party rap. Artists: Outkast, The Roots, Common, Black Eyed Peas, Michael Franti.

Bass: A fast-paced dance floor sound frequently associated with Miami and Atlanta, where deep bass accompanies beats that travel at breakneck speeds. Artists: DJ Magic Mike, Luke.

Chopped & Screwed: According to allmusic.com, Houston's DJ Screw had an uncanny mixing style where his records were pitched down to a slow and lumbering pace. Artists who have employed this style: Lil Flip, David Banner.

Crunk: A frenetic, energy-driven type of style specifically engineered for the dance floor. Artists: Lil' Jon & The Eastside Boyz, Three 6 Mafia.

East Coast: Or more specifically northeast U.S. sound, the first nationally recognized hip-hop epi-center. Dense, aggressive break beats — a dominant repetitive drum beat — but also jazz-oriented dusty-grooves. Artists: Notorious B.I.G., Jay-Z, Nas, Talib Kweli.

Gangsta: An edgy and often profane hip-hop style where the common element is the content: gritty street tales that portray a dim reality where the artist can be the subject or the observer. Artists: 2pac, 50 Cent, Lloyd Banks.

G-Funk: A specific sound that employs P-funk, melodic synthesizers and slow and steady grooves. This style is most identified with the West Coast gangsta aesthetic of the mid-1990s. Artists: Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Warren G.

Golden Age: A period in hip-hop between 1986 and 1993. Many argue that the best hip-hop albums were recorded during this era. Artists from that period: Public Enemy, Eric B. & Rakim, Slick Rick.

Hardcore: Both a description of the content and of the sonic quality, which often has a minimalist sound bed of a sample and hard drumbeat. Artists: Jadakiss, DMX, Lil' Kim

Old School: Hip-hop at the beginning, before it became such a mainstream commodity. Artists: Sugarhill Gang, Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five, Kurtis Blow, Doug E. Fresh, Run D.M.C., The Fat Boys.

Pop Rap: Hip-hop music specifically tailored to have a radio-friendly, crossover type of appeal. Artists: P. Diddy, Will Smith.

Southern: The most identifiable elements are ''bounce'' beats and deep bass-grooves that often are party-centered, or can be created in the tradition of Southern soul and blues. Artists: Ludacris, David Banner, Lil' Flip, T.I.

Trip-Hop: Down-tempo soul, funk and jazz over a breakbeat. It's also a dance-based techno music, but set to a hip-hop groove. Artists: DJ Shadow, tricky, Morcheeba, Portishead.

Underground: Purist, avante-garde hip-hop that strives to align itself with the sound's origins. The music tends to place an emphasis on lyricism and unconventional beats. Artists: Madlib, MF Doom, El-P, Jurassic 5.

West Coast: While it could be described as any hip-hop from this particular region, West Coast also can describe a sound: slow grooves, Parliament-Funkadelic samples and synthesizers. Artists: Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg.

Excellent break down. I'm about to do some record shopping and this
list of descriptions is most helpfull.
Also, isn't Mos Def in collaboration with Talib Kweli on a project?
( I think it's called Dark Star, but I'm not sure. )

Quote:

---

Originally posted by R.Carter

Also, isn't Mos Def in collaboration with Talib Kweli on a project?
( I think it's called Dark Star, but I'm not sure. )

---

Yup. Black Star. 8)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut
I thought this might help a few people out: :D

---

nice post

i listen to Alternative, Chopped & Screwed, Crunk, East Coast, and Southern according to that. alternative is alot different rap then some people who hate it might think.

Instead of classifying what type of music you listen to i prefer what artists though.

I am not a rap fan. In fact, I can't wait until it goes out of style, if I will ever be so fortunate. However, I like the BEST of every type of music. In my opinion, the best rapper of all time was Eazy-E. The runner up is DJ Quick.

AlternateReality wrote:

Quote:

---

nice post[/b]

---

Thankya.
And I agree that it is better to classify my likes/dislikes by artists, rather than genre. Style, technique and production are just a few factors that vary, even within the same genre. Like all things, you can't condemn something/someone until you experience it. I could even go as far as to say that there are some artists who only have a few good Songs, in my opinion, so that would be dividing it even more.

Universal Mind wrote:

Quote:

---

I am not a rap fan. In fact, I can't wait until it goes out of style, if I will ever be so fortunate.[/b]

---

It won't. But why do you feel that way?

Universal Mind wrote:

Quote:

---

However, I like the BEST of every type of music. In my opinion, the best rapper of all time was Eazy-E. The runner up is DJ Quick.[/b]

---

What makes them the BEST, in your opinion?

Quote:

---

Also Mos Def, Common, Dilated Peoples, The Roots, Pharoah Monche, KRS-1, The Black Eyed Peas, Immortal Technique...the list goes on and on. [/b]

---

Hehe, I realise you posted that ages ago, but forgive me. :D

Excellent selection man, I just got Dilated Peoples, The Roots, Black Eyed Peas (Old stuff), Immortal Technique, Blackalicious, Lifesavas, Gift Of Gab, Tommy Tee and People Under The Stairs.

Lifesavas, Dilated Peoples, Immortal Technique, Blackalicious all very fucking good.

You know your shit Oneironaut! :goodjob2:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Night Wolf

Quote:

---

Also Mos Def, Common, Dilated Peoples, The Roots, Pharoah Monche, KRS-1, The Black Eyed Peas, Immortal Technique...the list goes on and on.

---

Hehe, I realise you posted that ages ago, but forgive me. :D

Excellent selection man, I just got Dilated Peoples, The Roots, Black Eyed Peas (Old stuff), Immortal Technique, Blackalicious, Lifesavas, Gift Of Gab, Tommy Tee and People Under The Stairs.

Lifesavas, Dilated Peoples, Immortal Technique, Blackalicious all very fucking good.

You know your shit Oneironaut! :goodjob2:[/b]

---

Thank ya. :goodjob2:

Obviously you do, too. Hehe. Good taste. Immortal Technique is F'kin Outstanding.

My top three favorite rap artists in no particular order..

1. Nas
2. BG
3. Devin the Dude

If you haven't heard of Devin the Dude check him out. I'd suggest starting off with the song 'anythang'. Get this song and tell me what you think.

[quote]Universal Mind wrote:

Quote:

---

Universal Mind wrote:

Quote:

---

However, I like the BEST of every type of music. In my opinion, the best rapper of all time was Eazy-E. The runner up is DJ Quick.

---

What makes them the BEST, in your opinion?

---

The sounds of their voices, mainly. They sound very smooth and powerful. Plus, their lyrics are extremely creative and funny. I know I roll my eyes at today's gangster rap, but those two were pioneers who were really good at it, long before the boring monotony.

oh dear......

rappers delight ?!?

go boil your head

that song caused the downfall of hip-hop DJ's

you horrible, distusting man
I despise you

To Universal Mind:

Well unfortunately, you're basing your opinions off of the wrong side of rap. You are taking rap at face-value, when the only faces you know of are the ones that are flashed on the tv screen day in and day out. The catch is that these faces are a mockery of the original concept of hip-hop/rap and in no way represent the majority of hip-hop talents that are virtually surpressed from public view. There are so many artists out there with the same creative style as DJ-Quik, today, I couldn't even begin to name them all. Even DJ Quik and Easy-E had the same sort of materialistic concepts, which is good or bad, depending on the listener. There are many great artists out there that don't even resort to that. You should find them.
The problem with pop-culture is that the People don't Decide what is big, they are Told. Its one hell of an illusion, if you ask me. You think the industry is going to just flip-flop and start replacing the bs ganster rap that dominates the airwaves with the deep, conscious, thought-provoking, linguistic stylings of most underground rappers, completely with songs over-loaded with admirable vocabulary skills, metaphors, political views and whatnot? That would be like a slave-master giving his "property" weapons and teaching them martial arts. Think about it.
Knowing this, as you should know now, you should not be willing to base your judgement of "what rap is" by what you hear on the radio and tv screens. If you don't really care that your opinion is not a fair assessment of rap as a whole, then that is your perogative, but if you value having a respectable opinion on something as black-market as True Talented hip-hop artists, talk to people that know about them. Try getting some artists' names and track listings, and do enough research to actually put some support to your judgement.

alright....

I've started to write out the following at least twice before in this thread, but each time, I get a little way, then say "oh, sod it - no-ones interested anyway" but this time, I'm going to write it

Hip-Hop is the art of music making through sampling
don't argue, cause I'm right

it all started out of the Bronx - with kids wanting to make music for little or no outlay - nicking their parents record collection and chopping the beats up and re-arranging them into a different sounding rhythm

I won't go into detail, cause I'll be here all night
but what I will say.... (Tony's highly condensed hip-hop dj history)
is that it started with Kool DJ Herc in the early 70's extending the breaks of 60's and 70's disco, funk and soul records for the b-boys to break to
then Afrika Bambatta can along and added an african flavour to the beats
then GM Flash came along with the 2 second backspin
GM Flash forked the road
on one fork you had scratching
on the other fork you had beat juggling
(I think everybody knows what scratching is, but for beat juggling, which I very much prefer personally, check out my Fantastic routine in Artists corner, two copies of DJ Noize - Fantastic, broken down into it's component parts by me, and built back up into something completely different)

Right, now we get onto the point of this post
sampling rights

it's all very well for me (a guy in his room with 2000 odd records) to make a tune using 2, 5, 10, or even 50 different records

"Ooh, I like the snare on that, lets nab it - slow it down a tad, and oooh crikey - a fast backspin on the snare makes a cool hi-hat sounding sound" - that type of thing

great, you might think

but fast forward to a professional music situation
you are proposing to sample 10 different records in order to make 1 track? in order to just break even with the sampling royalties, you have to sell thousands

so, we have a problem
The very essence of hip-hop in the commercial world is defeated by royalty fees

solution No. 1
Sell millions of copies in order for it to be workable
Timberland and Neptunes (et al) spring to mind
the big commercial record labels that nit-pick songs according to market trends (and everybody knows the sort of fuck-wits that buy hip-hop)

Solution No. 2
1 song sample hip-hop tracks
where, in essence, you're just re-making the song you're sampling
Fugees - Killing me softly
Coolio - Gangsta's paradise
and many others spring to mind

Solution No. 3
Don't go commercial at all
Keep on making your beats in your bedroom
sell them out of your car boot at hip-hop concerts
Set up an Ebay shop and sell over the net
anything
just avoid the royalty fees

Verdict
The best, and truest hip-hop is not on the shelves of HMV (or whatever high street record stores you have in your country)
The hip-hop that is on those shelves has been through a meat grinder, in terms of hip-hop music styling

Nice work, yo. :goodjob2:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut
Nice work, yo. :goodjob2:

---

thanks :D

*edit
ah nuts, new page
now no-one will bloody read it, cause it's on the page before

Just to add a voice of authority in here.....

BAMBAATAA EXPLAINS THE MEANING OF HIP HOP
by - Afrika Bambaataa

The Universal Zulu Nation calls on the World to recognize the whole
month of November as HIP HOP HISTORY MONTH! The official birthday of
the Universal Zulu Nation is November 12, 1973. The official birthday
of Hip Hop is November 12th, 1974.

With consideration to the above mentioned dates, nothing makes more
sense than to celebrate Hip Hop culture and it's history during
November, which is exactly what the Universal Zulu Nation has been
doing for over 27 + years. November is also significant in the fact
that it kicks off the "indoor jam season". The Hip Hop community
jams, enjoyed outdoors in the parks, throughout the Summer, had to
move indoors for about 7 months to community centers, gymnasiums,
schools etc. for the Fall and Winter seasons. The Hip Hop World
should recognize this month and pay tribute to those who laid the
foundation and paved the way as well as to those who continue to
preserve the rich tradition of the culture.

In the early years of the culture, the movement went untitled until
Afrika Bambaataa, started calling it "Hip Hop", a term originated by
Lovebug Starski. In the 70's, ten years prior to it's gaining global
recognition, Hip Hop was a celebration of life gradually developing
each of it's elements to form a cultural movement. Due to it's
energy, dynamics, and momentum, Hip Hop culture has become,
ultimately, a key to upliftment and reformation, as well as a
billion-dollar industry.

From the 80's on, the Rap industry and media have helped to make the
terms "Hip Hop" and "Rap" synonymous, leaving out the other elements
included in the culture. In light of this enormous oversight, the
Zulu Nation promotes the "5th element" of Hip Hop, which is KNOWLEDGE,
and actively tries to educate the masses about the history and
foundational elements of true Hip Hop culture.

Bambaataa declared: "When we made Hip Hop, we made it hoping it would
be about peace, love, unity and having fun so that people could get
away from the negativity that was plaguing our streets (gang violence,
drug abuse, self hate, violence among those of African and Latino
descent). Even though this negativity still happens here and there,
as the culture progresses, we play a big role in conflict resolution
and enforcing positivity."

Hip Hop is the Vehicle to Deliver Innumerable Lessons! Afrika
Bambaataa doesn't believe that Hip Hop heads should just have
knowledge of Hip Hop. He promotes and proves that Hip Hop can be used
as a vehicle for teaching awareness, knowledge, wisdom, understanding,
freedom, justice, equality, peace, unity, love, respect,
responsibility and recreation, overcoming challenges, economics,
mathematics. science, life, truth, facts and faith.

The Elements:

Hip Hop culture is defined as a movement which is expressed through
various artistic mediums which we call "elements". The main elements
are known as MC'ing (Rapping), DJ'ing, WRITING (Aerosol Art), SEVERAL
DANCE FORMS (which include Breaking, Up-Rocking, Popping, and Locking)
and the element which holds the rest together: KNOWLEDGE. There are
also other elements such as Vocal Percussion/Beat Boxing, Fashion,
etc. Within the past 20 years, Hip-Hop culture has greatly influenced
the entertainment world with its creative contributions in music,
dance, art, poetry, and fashion.

Due to their lack of knowledge about the whole of Hip Hop culture,
many of our world's youth are mistaken in thinking that activities
such as: smoking blunts, drinking 40's, wearing a designer label
plastered across their chest, carrying a gun, or going to strip clubs,
are "Hip Hop". Hip Hop is being portrayed negatively by many artists
who work in the element of Rap (emceeing), and this negativity is
usually instigated and promoted by the record industry and various
other corporations who exploit the culture at the expense of the
youth's state of mind and morality. The Universal Zulu Nation
believes there is a difference in speaking out about negativity
(activism) and promoting it as a desirable lifestyle. Gangsters,
pimps, playas, hustlers, niggers, spics, and many other derogatory
words once used against us are now self employed in our everyday
vocabulary. Our ancestors who have fought and died trying to free us
from these sicknesses and slave mentality are probably turning over in
their graves! Bambaataa asks you to just think about this, "How in
the hell did we turn from gods to dogs?"

Afrika Bambaataa encourages you to do more research about our story,
his/her-story, and what you think is your mystery is actually your
history. Where are our Hip Hop thinkers, lawyers, holistic doctors,
scientists, agriculturalists/herbalists, revolutionaries, politicians,
judges, researchers, teachers, police, army, accountants,
anthropologists, etc. Where is our own Hip Hop Museum? Many talk the
talk but don't walk the walk. Many straight out sell-out to the
liberation of our people as well as to all humans on the planet so
called Earth! He also encourages you to do research on any Hip Hop
organization that deals with consciousness and the upliftment of all
people. To all those who purposely make up your own history and lie
about the culture- DO YOUR RESEARCH!

You can contact the Universal Zulu Nation at their main website
http://www.zulunation.com/ and to explore links to other Zulu chapters
and websites.

Thank you in advance for forwarding this announcement to everyone you
know!

Peace and Blessings Afrika Bambaataa & the entire Universal Zulu
Nation.

As we say in Zulu - respect the many universes and especially mother
earth - cause if you don't she will spit your asses out!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut
To Universal Mind:

Well unfortunately, you're basing your opinions off of the wrong side of rap. You are taking rap at face-value, when the only faces you know of are the ones that are flashed on the tv screen day in and day out. The catch is that these faces are a mockery of the original concept of hip-hop/rap and in no way represent the majority of hip-hop talents that are virtually surpressed from public view. There are so many artists out there with the same creative style as DJ-Quik, today, I couldn't even begin to name them all. Even DJ Quik and Easy-E had the same sort of materialistic concepts, which is good or bad, depending on the listener. There are many great artists out there that don't even resort to that. You should find them.
The problem with pop-culture is that the People don't Decide what is big, they are Told. Its one hell of an illusion, if you ask me. You think the industry is going to just flip-flop and start replacing the bs ganster rap that dominates the airwaves with the deep, conscious, thought-provoking, linguistic stylings of most underground rappers, completely with songs over-loaded with admirable vocabulary skills, metaphors, political views and whatnot? That would be like a slave-master giving his \"property\" weapons and teaching them martial arts. Think about it.
Knowing this, as you should know now, you should not be willing to base your judgement of \"what rap is\" by what you hear on the radio and tv screens. If you don't really care that your opinion is not a fair assessment of rap as a whole, then that is your perogative, but if you value having a respectable opinion on something as black-market as True Talented hip-hop artists, talk to people that know about them. Try getting some artists' names and track listings, and do enough research to actually put some support to your judgement.

---

I know that what you are saying is true. I don't dispute it. But you asked me why I am ready for rap to go away, and it is because I am sick of the crap (which you just admitted is crap) that dominates my television stations that play music videos and so forth. I am ready for IT to go away, and as you said, it is the type of rap that is here to stay for a very long time, unfortunately.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ynot
oh dear......

rappers delight ?!?

go boil your head

that song caused the downfall of hip-hop DJ's

you horrible, distusting man
I despise you

---

I take it you must be joking? If so, peace and ha ha. If not, then, uh, Rapper's Delight was the birth of popular rap. But you will not find Rapper's Delight anywhere in my humongous CD collection, ever. The only two rap albums I own are NWA's Striaght Out Of Compton and the Menace II Society soundtrack. I hope this information soothes your vagina ache.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Universal Mind
I take it you must be joking? If so, peace and ha ha. If not, then, uh, Rapper's Delight was the birth of popular rap. But you will not find Rapper's Delight anywhere in my humongous CD collection, ever. The only two rap albums I own are NWA's Striaght Out Of Compton and the Menace II Society soundtrack. I hope this information soothes your vagina ache.

---

I wasn't joking, no - but I was maybe a bit harsh
cause I don't think it was ever Sylvia Robinson's intention to undermine hip-hop
it just turned out that way

Rappers delight is a great track that broke many barriers, don't get me wrong
but it started something - and that thing was not good
the errosion of the DJ
Let me explain.....

Rappers delight was a turning point in hip-hop, as you said, it was the first major hip-hop song to be pressed to wax and sold to the public.

no-one (to my knowledge) had ever tried to professionally record a hip-hop tune before
so it was new territory for everyone

at the time, the thought of having a DJ spin vinyl in a studio, recording what he did and pressing a new record out of it was absurd
(akin to paying graf writers for their work, I suppose :wink: )
so they didn't
they used drum machine's and samplers with the MC's rhyming over the top
The thinking was - DJ's for live performances, samplers for studio cuts.

this completely alienated the DJ when hip-hop blew up in the wake of rappers delight, as they were not on the records at all. The MC's were all fine and dandy, as they were getting paid to rhyme on the record, but the DJ's were getting squat.
The record companies loved this, as they only had to pay the rapper's, and they could have full control over the samples used (and so keep the royalties down to a minimum)

The situation compounded even further when rap artists started cropping up who didn't even have a DJ, they just used samplers all the time
and so the art of hip-hop DJ'ing pretty much died on the commercial level.

and that's what people heard on the radio, and bought on record, and ultimately associated as hip-hop

There is, however, a happy ending to this story
but, I shall leave 'The Return of the DJ' story for another day

- Tony

For a long time i would not listen to anything else but rap and the first couple of rock songs i first started liking was almost embarassing. But now i have realized just how repetitive and horrible 99% of mainstream rap is. People bash and hate rap to no end, but it's probably only because they have only been exposed to the terrible mainstream rap. I didn't read all of the posts in this thread but i got the idea people have been mentioned this already. I can totally understand why people would hate rap so much because of this. But alot of these people haven't been exposed to every side of rap. Real, raw, unrecorded and uncommercialized rap is what people aren't hearing. The real thing exists deep underground in freestyles that nobody will ever hear again once they are over. I loved seeing guys spill their skills relentlessly over and over again just to make people say OHHH :) brings back great memories. I remember watching this guy in highschool once who let lose freestyling for at least 10 minutes non stop, amazing me with every line. Anybody who hates rap should have been there, they wouldn't believe the talent required to do something like that. If you want to hear a good rap cd buy ATLiens by Outkast, there are few rap CDs that equal it lyrically, musically, and intelligently.

I like the ones about peace, love and unity. Not the ones with all that cursing and putting down females.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by warn81
I like the ones about peace, love and unity. Not the ones with all that cursing and putting down females.

---

Now if we could only get the popular radio stations to feel the same way, we'd be getting somewhere. :cry:

Anyone know when Immortal Technique's new Revolution Vol. 3 is coming out?
I wanna snag that shit and blast it in all directions. No one shall be without Immortal!
He is one raw mother fuckin hard core rapper! :D

Bam's on the case

http://www.allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=5381

Actually, Rap Music is simply more proof of the progressive decline of musical discernment in the general public, while continuing with the trend that has allowed the Record Companies to reduce even further what they expect from and contribute to their 'talent'.

Look at where it all started with Mass Media and the Recording Business. The Radio Waves and the Recordings were occuppied by Big Bands and Philharmonic Orchestras. The public was fairly educated musically. In every middleclass family and many working class families, music lessons were as much a part of growing up as homework or Little League. The Popular Music was complex. People then could understand it.

But the World Depression and then the World War must have interrupted the music lessons for a generation, and tastes dropped to Rock and Roll. The Recording Companies discovered that they could sell the same vinyl with a few kids playing a few guitars and a drum, as they were with complete bands and skilled musicians. So the skilled musicians lost work, and kids fresh out of school, willing to start for nothing, got all the work. The music suffered for it. Melodies and timing signitures simplified and primitivized. Harmonies became elementary.

But teenagers grow up. It was interesting as the Sixties turned into the Seventies and the teenagers of Rock and Roll grew up and developed -- expanding their music to, well, grown up proportions. But here again the decline in the tastes of the general public could not support a sophisticated Taste, and a new Generation of Rock and Roll stepped up, or rather, stepped down, again emphasizing the original plan of reduced expectations, reduced talent, reduced skill. Afterall, schools no longer educated students in Music Education, so only the most basic and rudimentary of tastes needed be appealed to.

Rap is perhaps the furthest step down now. Now, the no-talent teenage kids willing to start for nothing, now they don't even have to know how to play guitar. Music without musicians. The triumph of mediocrity. Civilization has returned to the Jungle where we can only expect to have primitives beating on logs -- dancing around the fire, chanting unsophisticated war cries.

But it is all One with the rest of Western Culture where writing is crap, art is crap and it would not be complete unless music were also crap. Thank God engineering has not gone the way of the Arts, and one can buy a car or motorcycle that has improved upon the offerings of the 19th Century. Perhaps it is an indication of the Rise of Materialism and the Decline in Spirituality. Engineering advanced, but the Arts plunged to a low that even the most Barbaric of Cultures would have been ashamed of. No more prodigies, no more Mozarts. Now all we need are foul-mouths who can rhyme their obsenities.

Spoken like someone with absolutely nothing more than a superficial knowledge (if any) of the varying levels of lyrical talent enveloped in the Whole of rap music. That kind of stuff may fly when uttered into a group that knows nothing of the works of the real (and the supressed) lyricists, where the only counter-arguement would be an incompetent and unsupportable "Nuh uh. Rap is tight!" which would do nothing to dispel your own, however popular, misconception.

The funny thing about opinions such as yours, Leo, is that, when applied to the area of popular, high-profile poetry, they often expose the hypocrisy that the speakers, themselves, are oblivious to.

Unless you're going to tell me that there is no such thing as Talented Poetry (which, I'm assuming, would be akin to blasphemy to a peson like yourself, with such 'high standards') then you must concede that there is a lot to be said for writing down a bunch of words using the height of your literary skills, no? (Granted tactless rants are nothing to defend, I agree with you there, but one cannot be ignorant of the lyrical talent out there and properly insult rap as a Whole, as you're failing to do now.)

If some of the high-profile poets of the past were to somehow ressurect and hold a "Concert of the Millenium" at Carnegie, (I'm, again, Assuming) you would sell your next of kin to get yourself in the show. If someone equally as talented, yet world reknowned under the much-loathed label of "Rapper," was slotted to perform, you would write them off with the same kind of misguided rhetoric that you just put in your last post, without knowing nothing of the person's past works, or present literary skills.

My Native Land
Poem lyrics of My Native Land by Sir Walter Scott.

Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my own, my native land!
Whose heart hath ne'er within him burn'd,
As home his footsteps he hath turn'd
From wandering on a foreign strand!
If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
For him no Minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung

L'Envoi
Poem lyrics of L'Envoi by Rudyard Kipling.

When Earth's last picture is painted and the tubes are twisted and dried,
When the oldest colours have faded, and the youngest critic has died,
We shall rest, and, faith, we shall need it -- lie down for an aeon or two,
Till the Master of All Good Workmen shall put us to work anew!

And those that were good shall be happy: they shall sit in a golden chair;
They shall splash at a ten-league canvas with brushes of comets' hair;
They shall find real saints to draw from -- Magdalene, Peter, and Paul;
They shall work for an age at a sitting and never be tired at all!

And only the Master shall praise us, and only the Master shall blame;
And no one shall work for money, and no one shall work for fame,
But each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
Shall draw the Thing as he sees It for the God of Things as They Are!

================================================== ========

Where Do We Go?
by: Talib Kweli
http://media.putfile.com/Talib-Kweli---Where-Do-We-Go

[Chorus: Res - repeat 2X]
Where do we go? What do we say? What do we do?
Nowhere to turn, nowhere to run and there's nothin new
Where do we go for exploration?
It's like pain is our only inspiration

[Talib Kweli]
Yea, I see a place where little boys and girls
Are shells in the oceans, not knowin they are pearls.
No one to hold 'em while they're growin
They're livin' moment to moment without a care in the whole world
Now, if I could help it, I'll tell it just like it is
And I may say some things that you don't like to hear
I know this: that people lie, people kneel
People die, people heal, people steal, and people shed tears
What's real, blood spills, gun kills, the sun still - rise
Above me, trust me, it must be, morning - time
Wake up, the stakes up
Everybody want their cake up, (<--getting more dough, for the slang impaired) to break up with the crew
But when the karma comes back for what you do
It's too late to make up - some excuse

[Chorus]

[Talib Kweli]
I come from people who stand stronger than time and space
Wherever there's competition you gonna find the race
I find a place in my heart for this hip-hop
It pumps blood through my vein, my skin get hot
I take it very serious, it makes me write more
If I don't celebrate I got nothing to fight for
I'm type raw, excite y'all like nightfall
I'm tight y'all, I walk the street like y'all
About action, talk is cheap, right y'all?
You start yappin' think about the beef you might cause
The trouble you could get into
You don't study, you're not prepared and cats is testin you
What you gonna do when you gotta face
The manifestation of the words that you put in space
But they're already there, you cant take 'em out
The studio gangsta inside you tryin' to break out

[Chorus]

[Repeat first verse]

We Know
Talib f/ Faith Evans
http://media.putfile.com/Talib-and-Faith---We-Know

(1st Verse) [Talib Kweli]
My name is Kweli and I love to spit it homie
I rap about love and life, ladies get to know me
If you feelin' lonely, I can be your one and only
I put it out in the world, so people show me... love (echoes)
Yeah, I always get it back
This ain't no pimp game here, that's a different track
We talkin' this and that, we need to get with this
I keep it realer than most, this is our business

(Chorus) [Faith Evans]
What we gotta do to make them see
We got a good thing going on
Wanna tell the world if they don't know
That what we have is real
Wanna shout it from the mountains baby
That I love you, but if they don't hear me
I know, you know, we know

(2nd Verse) [Talib Kweli]
Heheh, yeah..
Yo, hey baby look like you need a break tonight
Let me make it right, baby won't you stay the night
I got a lot of love as you know you're my favorite right?
Hey my lady, what we gon' make tonight (our love...)
That's the dream, but I never sleep
Across the crowded room, our eyes forever meet
But without doubt and gloom, cuz we can never be
That's why I got to go, cuz you're my impossible love
Your the horizon I can see but never ride off into
I write my lyrics to you, you the perfect instrumental
I sound better than the cat who rappin' to you now
That's between me and you, what happened to us now?
Got you hopin' for the glorious
Waitin' for that victorious feelin' wanted by all of us
Kneelin' and praying that the lord in us will help us love ourselves
So much that the confidence attract to someone else

(Chorus) [Faith Evans]

(3rd Verse) [Talib Kweli]
Yo, Rockin' Los Angeles, House of Blues on Sunset
Performin' like an orgasm, my girl ain't even cum yet
Seen her by the side of the stage givin' me energy
Potentially, wife material connectin' mentally
I felt like heaven sent for me, you're meant for me
The doubters and the haters had to acknowledge eventually
You was a non-believer too if memory serves
On that hard-to-get shit, tryin' to play your boy for the herb
The harder that I run to you, the farther you become
It's like my heart was part of some movie that hadn't yet begun
This woman moves me and I'm a mountain of a man
You pull me in like the waves do the grain of sand (love, love, love...)
Yeah, I love the way you bring it to me
I wrote a song for you, I love to hear you to sing it for me
And let the melody carry me through the jealousy
And we can Cruise like Tom and Penelope

(Chorus) [Faith Evans]

================================================== ===============

To insult rap music as a whole, you have to actually weigh it As A Whole, and (call me crazy, bu) I find it hard to believe, Leo, that you are the type to listen to various rap artists in your spare time trying to justly differentiate the talent from the 'crap.' Am I wrong?

To beat the hell out of the dead horse, yet again, if your knowledge of rap music does not expand beyond the processed, degenerative Bullshit that they force feed you through the mainstream, in the hopes of distorting the collective consciousness of "What Rap Is," then, no matter how intelligent you think may be, you are ill-equiped to give anything more than a deluded perspective on it.

There is a Reason that most of the people who defend rap/hip-hop don't listen to the radio, and the people that degrade it have no clue of what exists through the looking glass.

God damn, Leo
we're talking personal tastes, here
just cause you don't like something, doesn't mean it's crap

Lambasting things cause you don't like them
how childish, really, can you get

Anyway...
I've always said
If classical orchestras can adopt swing time
it'd be the best musical performance ever
but sadly, no

I've realized that most of the pro-rap arguements fall on deaf ears, mainly, because none of these people will actually take the time to seek out some of the songs that others tell them are supportive to the positives of rap music.
So, that being said, I think the best way to convey my opinions is to take the time to upload some of these songs and post links to them and their lyrics. Those of you who actually want to give some justification to your own opinions should listen to some of the songs that others recommend. That way you can actually have some sort of base for your thoughts on "What Rap Is."

I'll be adding more throughout this thread periodically. Talib is probably my favorite artist, so you'll probably see a lot of his stuff up more than anything else.

http://media.putfile.com/Talib-Kweli---Memories-Live15
(Lyrics: http://lyrics.duble.com/T/talibkwelilyrics...slivelyrics.htm )

http://media.putfile.com/Pharoah-Common-an...lib---The-Truth
(Lyrics: most of the lyrics I find for this song are incorrect, but good enough: http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=85411 )

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut
Music is such a personal experience, that I really think changing someones opinion on a type of music is impossible

I, for instance, have to discover things on my own
if someone says to me
"you've got to check out this rock band, they're really good"

more often than not, I won't
My own prejudices kick in
"Bah, rock is a black music form bastardised by the whites, most people think elvis invented it for christ's sake - morons"

The band might be the best thing since sliced bread, but I still won't listen to them

However, it's a completely different story if I discover new music on my own.

---

*edit*
and let's not forget the outcry that caused
Oh come on, your wrong
ra ra ra :-P

But I'm not bitter :lol:

Lol. Well we can't all be as hard-headed as you, Tony. :cooler:
Besides, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion of what is and isn't good music. I'm trying to help people be less ignorant about passing judgements on types of music they have hardly any knowledge of. I wouldn't say that's impossible, but even if it were, I'll continue to state my case whenever people, that know nothing about the subject, trash something that I respect. :wink:

it just gets extremely tiring, after a while
it's one of the reasons I stepped down as admin and senior moderator of a hip-hop board
we were part of an indepentant artists syndicate (big mistake, in hindsight)
not a month went by without a few posts popping up about how rap = crap
or some other over-used bollocks

I'll answer proper questions, and any thing of a serious nature
but I refuse to justify to people Hip-Hop's presence in the music world
screw that

what really pisses me off is the lack of a reason
why do people want to denounce hip-hop?
no other music form gets so constantly slated
yes, gangsta rap paints a sorry picture of hip-hop
yes, it's what most people associate with the art form
but what really took the biscuit, was we had a community of artists making and distrubuting music online for free
all manner of different styles and types
and still we had ignorant peasants posting about how hip-hop's only about guns and bitches

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ynot
God damn, Leo
we're talking personal tastes, here
just cause you don't like something, doesn't mean it's crap

Lambasting things cause you don't like them
how childish, really, can you get

Anyway...
I've always said
If classical orchestras can adopt swing time
it'd be the best musical performance ever
but sadly, no

---

So, I write an entire essay delineating the decline of music in World Culture -- the virtual disappearance of musicians from the scene -- and all you can say is that I am applying my 'taste' unfairly.

yes, I understand your point -- that monkeys do indeed really really enjoy beating sticks on a log and jumping and hooting. But understand my viewpoint -- that if they could comprehend Mozart or Cole Porter, they would enjoy it even more.

What we have here is Elaboration of Knowledge and Understanding pitted against Primitive Uneducated Animal Appeal. yes, you take the side of the Animals. But it is more than a matter of taste, my siding with the Acquired Tastes of a Civilized Elaboration of Musical Traditions. Study Music. You will find that it took Centuries for Music to reach the levels of Sophistication that it had. But only two or three Generations to totally decline to beating upon logs again and dancing around the fire.

Taste. Taste indeed.

Heh. Way to point-dodge, Neo. - I mean Leo. :chuckle:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo Volont
So, I write an entire essay delineating the decline of music in World Culture -- the virtual disappearance of musicians from the scene -- and all you can say is that I am applying my 'taste' unfairly.

yes, I understand your point -- that monkeys do indeed really really enjoy beating sticks on a log and jumping and hooting. *But understand my viewpoint -- that if they could comprehend Mozart or Cole Porter, they would enjoy it even more. *

What we have here is Elaboration of Knowledge and Understanding pitted against Primitive Uneducated Animal Appeal. * yes, you take the side of the Animals. *But it is more than a matter of taste, my siding with the Acquired Tastes of a Civilized Elaboration of Musical Traditions. *Study Music. *You will find that it took Centuries for Music to reach the levels of Sophistication that it had. *But only two or three Generations to totally decline to beating upon logs again and dancing around the fire. *

Taste. *Taste indeed.

---

No
You did not

You used a lot of wooly words that took up a lot of lines
but didn't actually say very much
You clearly implied you're a classical music listener
You picked out Rock & Roll and Hip-Hop, and stated that they are a lesser form of music than Classical
You also had something in there about the record industry, that didn't really make any sense

But what it lacked was any sort of musical evidence

Please Leo, blind me with your superior knowledge

Can I suggest your next post goes something like this

"Classical music is a far more diverse form of music than the modern day 4/4 beat variants
There is an enormously wide variety of time signitures and musical constructs available to artists
yet all you seem to focus on is the classic "dance" formula, which is very limiting
The entire concept of Compound Time has been lost - most probably never to return

Such is life, but I much prefer my music interesting and diverse

Simple duple - 4/4
Simple triple - 3/4
Compound duple - 6/8
Compound triple - 9/8"

I don't know
Something
Just something with some substance

And that whole thing about monkeys......

I like log beating monkey music
But more importantly, my musical knowledge spreads a lot further than that
Dare I say, a lot more than yours

(Still one my favorite songs of all time.)

http://media.putfile.com/Black-Star-ft-Com...n---Respiration

Talib Kweli & Hi Tek F/ Mos Def, Common - Respiration

"What'd you do last night?"
"We did umm, two whole cars
It was me, Dez, and Main Three right?
And on the first car in small letters it said
'All you see is..' and then you know
big, big, you know some block silver letters
that said '..crime in the city' right?"
"It just took up the whole car?"
"Yeah yeah, it was a whole car and shit..."

[spanish speaking woman] Escuchela.. la ciudad respirando
(translation of spanish: Listen to it.. the city breathing)

* woman repeats 3X *

[spanish speaking woman] Escuchela..

[Mos Def]
The new moon rode high in the crown of the metropolis
Shinin, like who on top of this?
People was tusslin, arguin and bustlin
Gangstaz of Gotham hardcore hustlin
I'm wrestlin with words and ideas
My ears is picky, seekin what will transmit
the scribes can apply to transcript, yo
This ain't no time where the usual is suitable
Tonight alive, let's describe the inscrutable
The indisputable, we New York the narcotic
Strength in metal and fiber optics
where mercenaries is paid to trade hot stock tips
for profits, thirsty criminals take pockets
Hard knuckles on the second hands of workin class watches
Skyscrapers is collosus, the cost of living
is preposterous, stay alive, you play or die, no options
No Batman and Robin, can't tell between
the cops and the robbers, they both partners, they all heartless
With no conscience, back streets stay darkened
Where unbeliever hearts stay hardened
My eagle talons STAY sharpened, like city lights stay throbbin
You either make a way or stay sobbin, the Shiny Apple
is bruised but sweet and if you choose to eat
You could lose your teeth, many crews retreat
Nightly news repeat, who got shot down and locked down
Spotlight to savages, NASDAQ averages
My narrative, rose to explain this existance
Amidst the harbor lights which remain in the distance

So much on my mind that I can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine
Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine
Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline
Heard the bass ride out like an ancient mating call
I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathin
Chest heavin, against the flesh of the evening
Sigh before we die like the last train leaving

[Talib Kweli]
Breathin in deep city breaths, sittin on shitty steps
we stoop to new lows, hell froze the night the city slept
The beast crept through concrete jungles
communicatin with one another
And ghetto birds where waters fall
from the hydrants to the gutters
The beast walk the beats, but the beats we be makin
You on the wrong side of the track, lookin visibly shaken
Taken them plungers, plungin to death that's painted by the numbers
with crime unapplied pressure, cats is playin God
but havin children by a lesser baby mother but fuck it
we played against each other like puppets, swearin you got pull
when the only pull you got is the wool over your eyes
Gettin knowledge in jail like a blessing in disguise
Look in the skies for God, what you see besides the smog
is broken dreams flying away on the wings of the obscene
Thoughts that people put in the air
Places where you could get murdered over a glare
But everything is fair
It's a paradox we call reality
So keepin it real will make you casualty of abnormal normality
Killers Born Naturally like, Mickey and Mallory
Not knowing the ways'll get you capped like an NBA salary
Some cats be emceeing to illustrate what we be seeing
Hard to be a spiritual being when shit is shakin what you believe in
For trees to grow in Brooklyn, seeds need to be planted
I'm asking if y'all feel me AND THE CROWD LEFT ME STRANDED
My blood pressure boiled and rose, cause New York niggaz
actin spoiled at shows, to the winners the spoils go
I take the L, transfer to the 2, head to the gates
New York life type trife the Roman Empire state

[Mos Def and crew]
So much on my mind I just can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine
Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine
Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline
Yo don't the bass ride out like an ancient mating call
I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathin
Chest heavin, against the flesh of the evening
Sigh before we die like the last train leaving

[spanish speaking woman] Escuchela.. respirando ??

[Common]
Yo...on The Amen, Corner I stood lookin at my former hood
Felt the spirit in the wind, knew my friend was gone for good
Threw dirt on the casket, the hurt, I couldn't mask it
Mixin down emotions, struggle I hadn't mastered
I coreograph seven steps to heaven
And hell, waiting to exhale and make the bread leavened
Veteran of a cold war It's Chica-I-go for
What I know or, what's known
So some days I take the bus home, just to touch home
From the crib I spend months gone
Sat by the window with a clutched dome listenin to shorties cuss long
Young girls with weak minds, but they butt strong
Tried to call, or at least beep the Lord, but didn't have a touch-tone
It's a dog-eat-dog world, you gotta mush on
Some of this land I must own
Outta the city, they want us gone
Tearin down the 'jects creatin plush homes
My circumstance is between Cabrini and Love Jones
Surrounded by hate, yet I love home
Ask my God how he thought travellin the world sound
Found it hard to imagine he hadn't been past downtown
It's deep, I heard the city breathe in its sleep
Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep
Deep, I heard my man breathe in his sleep
Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep

[Mos Def and crew]
So much on my mind I just can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine
Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine
Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline
Yo how the bass ride out like an ancient mating call
I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathing
Chest heavin, against the flesh of the evening
Kiss the Ide's goodbye, I'm on the last train leaving

Righty ho,
I'll take the old school side of things

The song that gave birth to Electro

Doug E Fresh - Play This Only At Night

[quote]

Quote:

---

I like log beating monkey music
But more importantly, my musical knowledge spreads a lot further than that
Dare I say, a lot more than yours

---

So, you KNOW more about muscis than I do. But you will still betray all of it over to drum beating monkeys.

Which brings us to the matter of appreciation. You know Music but you hate it.

Perhaps one can understand things far too completely. One kills the organism that one disects.

I may not KNOW Music entirely well. But I can appreciate that where once Civilization was deep in Musicians and where everybody now freely admits that the Height of Musical Civilization is now well past; and I lament that the modern trends in popular music have shaped around smaller and cheaper orgnizations and bands, toward less and less and cheaper and cheaper forms of talent; and that the Public is no longer entertained by the BEST of music but only by Music that has clear copyright and the potential for short term profit. Good music is forgotten. Great music recedes further everyday, so that new copyrights can milk ever new generations of stupid teenagers of their Milk Money.

So, that is what you KNOW and approve of.

Well, this is what I hope. I hope your Life goes the way of Popular Music. Honestly. Now you observe and see if it gets better or worse. And remember, you asked for it.

Leo,

See my post at the bottom of page 5 - this will actually confirm your statement about "so that new copyrights can milk ever new generations of stupid teenagers of their Milk Money."

Also, can I ask how old you are?
and confirm your musical tastes
(Renaissance, baroque, romantic, classical or modern)

*Edit*
I've asked for our little debate to be split
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27239

What I'm tripping on, is why Leo refuses to admit his dislike for pop-culture music has absolutely nothing to do with the Whole of Rap Music, which is, I thought, what this thread was based upon. The entire "essay" on the decline of popular music has nothing to do with the concept of "the whole of rap music." The sooner you understand that, Leo, the more you will understand our perspective.

Tell me Leo, do you honestly believe that one who adores classical music for the countless reasons thare are to, cannot also have enough respect for poetic writing and verbal stylings to know talent when they hear it, even when it comes from a realm as, obviously, misunderstood as rap music?

Do you believe that one that listens to one side of the spectrum must be instinctively ignorant of talent that is outside of that particular box?

I, for one, grew up playing the piano. Fur Elise, Greensleeves, Moonlight Sonata, etc. I've taken the time to get familiar with all of these songs enough to teach myself from the sheet music. Can you say the same for the Entire Genre that you're insulting?
For someone to tell me that my love for hip-hop is some how a betrayal to the classical works that have yet to have been (and probably never will be, in many ways) surpassed is funny. (albeit insulting) I would love to hear the logic behind it.

Your overstuffed analogy of the concept of rap music being as "monkeys beating on logs" is no different from me saying Shakespere, Poe, Hemingway, Twain etc, were just a bunch of neanderthals sitting around the fire going "Ugh. Ooh. AH!" to the beat of the logs being played.

Just because you grow out of being impressed by nursery rhymes doesn't mean you wage war on poetry itself.

Do your intellect a much deserved justice and marinate on that for a moment. :|

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut


Now if we could only get the popular radio stations to feel the same way, we'd be getting somewhere. :cry:

---

yep...I don't know why they don't play them often.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The people who say they hate rap and hip-hop hardly ever listen to it...so how can they hate it.

Digging this one up, because I thought this article was pretty interesting, and shows a huge part of what&#39;s wrong with rap music, today.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/04/...pper/index.html

Rap music is, and has always been, a strong, political outlet. I believe that has a lot to do with why it&#39;s being slowly (and if you ask me, methodically) driven into obscurity.

i don't like rap, i like metal, but i do like hip hop, the old stuff all the way up to the 90s. but the new stuff is horrible. same shit over and over again. so generic... at least in the 90s when they talked about drugs, girls, killing niggas, etc it had good tunes with it. people like lil wayne ruined hip hop

Awwww yeeeaaahh.

What happened to hip hop?

How did it go from: "Wave ya hands in da air, and wave em like ya just don't care", "PARTY PARTY" and "I go st. Johns University"

to: "I bust dat AK-47 and rip ya guts out" and "Suck dis dick BITCH don't LOOK at me". "Gettin on my nerves and making me real HOSTILE, fuck around set it off, put the pump(shotgun) to ya nostrils.

More than HALF of the mainstream rappers today aren't even real...Wayne isn't a gangster, he fuckin shot hisself in the stomach when he was a kid. Half of these rappers never sold drugs, not even touched it. Rick Ross was a Correctional Officer for fucks sake.


After Tupac got killed everything went downhill. I'll tell you what happened....drugs...drugs destroyed it all. After the crack bomb went off in black communities that was it....that Illuminati shit. Crack bomb spread like a virus.

Now-a-days everything is about my swag matching my hat and sipping large amounts of prescription cough syrup. I'm not going to front I do enjoy some percocets every now and then, but that's recreational and nowhere near as much as people are doing now. These days, drug addiction is obviously the "cool" thing.

I like bone-thugz-n-harmony they have a lot of positive messages in their songs and their all about smoking weed and just chilling, no wild stuff just sit back and get faded, keeping it 100% real, and being together in peace.

I like this song right here, in this one they actually tell people that pills like extacy are bad for you and can really fuck you up in the brain. Stick to smoking weed, it's heaven-sent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GacBP6QzzxU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWuJTcLrXDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Wq8EQ3vYk

Seriously? One Wu Tang Clan reference in the whole topic?

Being a musician dedicated to learning and mastering my instrument, I find it hard to appreciate rap or hip hop as a musical form. I believe it is an art form, however, for lyrics and poetry. But music, it is not. It is like going to a slam poetry reading, people rap their poetry even without music.

The music in hip-hop is secondary, and mediocre electronic sampling and synthesized. It is there just to hook your mind to pay attention, just like the music in a TV or radio commercial. The message is not in the music.

I can take any lyrics, and rap them to some pre-recorded hip-hop music. I can take Bob Dylan's lyrics for "It's alright ma, I'm only Bleeding" and make a fantastic hip-hop song, but it is the lyrics that make it good, not the music.:

Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.

Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool's gold mouthpiece
The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying.

Temptation's page flies out the door
You follow, find yourself at war
Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before
You discover
That you'd just be
One more person crying.

So don't fear if you hear
A foreign sound to your ear
It's alright, Ma, I'm only sighing.

As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don't hate nothing at all
Except hatred.

Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.

While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have
To stand naked.

An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you got to dodge
And it's alright, Ma, I can make it.

Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you're the one
That can do what's never been done
That can win what's never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.

You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks
They really found you.

A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy
Insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not fergit
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to.

Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.

For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Do what they do to be
Nothing more than something
They invest in.

While some on principles baptized
To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And say God bless him.

While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.

But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him.

Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex they dare
To push fake morals insult and stare
While money doesn't talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares Propaganda, all is phony.

While them that defend what they cannot see
With killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely.

My eyes collide head-on with stuffed graveyards
False gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say alright, I have had enough
What else can you show me?

And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine
But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only.



And then there is country-rap, or CRAP.

[quote=Dannon Oneironaut;1219597
And then there is country-rap, or CRAP.[/quote]
I am intrigued. Please give me an example of this crap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abra

I am intrigued. Please give me an example of this crap.

---

Kid Rock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Rap music is, and has always been, a strong, political outlet. I believe that has a lot to do with why it's being slowly (and if you ask me, methodically) driven into obscurity.

---

The good stuff is, certainly. It is unfortunate that the genre is slowly being
deformed by those artists that use it as a means of glorifying material
possession and base pleasure. That's not to say that the same thing doesn't
happen with rock or any other genre, but the way rap is being picked for
display by the media appears to be entirely dependent on the message it's
trying to send. I don't hear the 'good stuff' anymore, and it's because of that
that newcomers to the genre give it negative associations.

My contribution to the thread will be the following piece, what I believe is a
decent representation of rap that's political in nature (2pac's "Changes" is also a
very popular example that anyone can find on youtube as well):

I don't like rap much but if you mix it with other genres it sounds pretty cool. I must admit, when you are buzzed rap sounds pretty awesome. You move with the music. When i am buzzed i am all over the place moving with the music, i just can't stop. I mostly don't like rap because now a days it's a bunch of morons thinking their cool and talking about dumb things, but that is mainly the rap on the radio.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blank530

i totally agree with you. rap is NOT music. it's a pathetic attempt at music.

---

By what arbitrary definition is rap "not music?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blank530

i totally agree with you. rap is NOT music. it's a pathetic attempt at music. I just can't take it seriously anymore and I don't see how anyone can. it's horrible.
BTW another CRAP artist: Bubba Sparxxx

---

Fair enough that's your opinion, albeit a narrow unfounded and probably ignorant opinion.
What I suggest is looking up some real underground hip-hop and finding out if you still have that view. If that still strikes you as being "a pathetic attempt at music" try typing def poetry into youtube and spending an hour or so listening.

Nowhere in your previous post did you specify you were talking about the 'new shit.'

Backpedalling ftw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blank530

i don't like rap, i like metal, but i do like hip hop, the old stuff all the way up to the 90s. but the new stuff is horrible. same shit over and over again. so generic... at least in the 90s when they talked about drugs, girls, killing niggas, etc it had good tunes with it. people like lil wayne ruined hip hop

---

exactly...

The year rap first poked its head above the underground and really started showing up on the radar was 1984. This is one of the classics from that year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The music in hip-hop is secondary, and mediocre electronic sampling and synthesized. It is there just to hook your mind to pay attention, just like the music in a TV or radio commercial. The message is not in the music.

---

What about instrumental hip-hop, my good man? It's about half of what I listen to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

People that know nothing about rap except the few BS songs they hear while flipping passed MTV or BET or talked about by their other rap-hating friends should learn not to make ignorant comments about a genre they know nothing about. Makes you look Really unintelligent.



Unfortunately that is the way the industry wants it to go. More CEOs are getting invovled with the \"Give the 'artists' more money so they won't ask so many questions about acting/behaving a certain way\" business philosophy. And unfortunately that 'certain way' is to keep them depicting rap-artists as shallow, materialistic, violence-oriented, sexist Jokes. (which most of them now are, or are becoming.)
True Hip Hop is one of the most powerful artistic tools there is. It couples deep, broad conscious poems set to beats (these beats are the very foundation of music itself. Not everything with an electric percussion and synth is concidered rap music. Nor does all rap music require electric guitar/drums and synth.) The Roots is one of the greatest hip-hop groups ever. And they are a live band.
But the music is Secondary in true rap/hip-hop. (Commercially the music is the most important thing, because as long as you're 'bobbing your' head, you don't give a damn what the person is saying, which is the tail that all the shitty modern rappers are riding on. The whole Dre/50 Cent connection proves this.) But a truely Awe Inspiring rap can be lyricized over a beat on a trashcan.
To say rap holds no power and its just \"some black guy\" spitting out meaningless words means you don't understand the power of words. Edgar Allen Poe/Shakespeare/Martin Luther King weren't just \"Some guys with pens and paper.\" You'll hear the most intelligent, well thought out Truths in Hip Hop, written by artists who use Unfathomable blends of metaphors, tonguetwisters, speed, heartfelt emotions and a number of other impressive tactics in their rap music. You simply have to have access to their music..
..the sad part is that the system doesn't Want you to have access to their music. Industry-run labels supress the artistic freedom of rappers to keep them in the same stereotypical public view. And as the masses are bombarded with this onslaught of \"Kill my enemies while sellin dope to get more cheese so the bitches all wanna ride in my G6 while sipping Krystal (sp) and bathing in burberry cologne\" they look at all the good-talented-Positive-masterfully sculpted hip hop (the ones they make nearly impossible to discover) as ....\"too Positive.\" or \"I can't even understand what he's saying.\" So they go back to bumping \"Get Dough. Get bitches. Blast Techs.\" (Which in turn makes modern rappers more popular, and the CEOs happier. What a sickening paradox.)
There is a Whole World of hip-hop out there, mostly hidden underground. And of this Entire World, you'll only get to experience the filthiest ghettos of a Single City by listening to mainstream rap.



You got good taste. 8)
The best way to find out about Real Hip Hop (the kind the material world Doesn't Want You to Hear) is to know someone that listens to it. Most people will go their entire lives without knowing what real rap is like, because they're force-fed the processed Bullshit thats made to blind you from what is still a Very Real and Powerful artistic phenomenon. (most of the best lyricists alive set most of their music to using wit to verbally DESTROY the bullshit artists you hear today. Hehe.)

Talib Kweli is probably my favorite artist right now. Also Mos Def, Common, Dilated Peoples, The Roots, Pharoah Monche, KRS-1, The Black Eyed Peas, Immortal Technique...the list goes on and on.

For all those that hate rap music...Check out those artists...and send me your letters of apology whenever you get around to it. I'm in no rush.

:mrgreen:

Oh..and about "not understanding what they are saying..." Once you find artists worth listening to, you'll play their songs over and over Making Sure you get damn near every word. That is the whole difference behind true Talent, and the Bullshit that you hear on the radio right before changing the station in disgust.

"Niggaz With Knowledge is more dangerous than Niggaz With Guns. They make the guns easy to get and try to keep niggaz dumb." ~Talib Kweli

---

Took the words right outta my mouth dude

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blank530

i don't like rap, i like metal, but i do like hip hop, the old stuff all the way up to the 90s. but the new stuff is horrible. same shit over and over again. so generic... at least in the 90s when they talked about drugs, girls, killing niggas, etc it had good tunes with it. people like lil wayne ruined hip hop

---

You stole what I was gonna say... My favorite hip hop song is funky cold medina :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUTqa5cjOS0 (Its really not rap)

Good post Oneironaught...most of these mainstream rappers are compulsive liars.

This is one down-to-the-bone, hip hop track I really like...by this guy named "Reks". He's pretty hot. The track is called "Suicide Note"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkJiyspHNFs

I don't listen to Dilated Peoples, but this track was also pretty hot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8wTYTwyXlo

My favorite rap is probably from Fort Minor (side project by linkin park's MC) and Flipsyde. If you havnt listened to flipsyde, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Eminem and Jurassic 5 are also high on my list, along with Jay Z. a little below them are Mos def and the roots and Flobots.

Yeah, sure Im a folk/symphonic metal guy, but there is also plenty of rap I enjoy.

edit: I didnt see how old this was lol. Anyways, the artists I listen to, as above, have a lot more to them than the superficial glam, they are in fact quite talented, and flipsyde, flobots, the roots all actually have some pretty good musical talent on top of the poetry.

Rap is music, but the music lies int he lyrics instead of the instruments or whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sora

...instead of the instruments or whatever.

---

That depends on who you're listening to, though. :wink:

Yeah O is right. The Rapper Twister knew how to make the music flow in sync with his lyrics. Twister was one of the most under rated rappers. His skills and lyrical style would crush most rappers of that time and today.

My favorite rappers would have to be...

Nas, Pharohe Monch, Mobb Deep, BlackStar, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, A Tribe Called Quest, Jay-Z, Ice Cube, and Snoop Dogg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tkdyo

My favorite rap is probably from Fort Minor (side project by linkin park's MC) and Flipsyde. If you havnt listened to flipsyde, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Eminem and Jurassic 5 are also high on my list, along with Jay Z. a little below them are Mos def and the roots and Flobots.

Yeah, sure Im a folk/symphonic metal guy, but there is also plenty of rap I enjoy.

edit: I didnt see how old this was lol. Anyways, the artists I listen to, as above, have a lot more to them than the superficial glam, they are in fact quite talented, and flipsyde, flobots, the roots all actually have some pretty good musical talent on top of the poetry.

---

A lot of this sums up what I was going to say. I was quite surprised nobody had mentioned Fort Minor yet. Anyone who knows me knows I love rock and metal, however, I find room for truly good rap and hip-hop. I guess, what qualifies as "good" for me is:
1) Well thought out. The lyrics actually mean something *or* tell a story (haven't seen a lot of it in rap, but there's some)
2) Good instrumentals. I allow for some electronics, but for the most part, I don't like "magic" effects that you see in a lot of pop music. This usually includes a lot of echo, and a clean high voice.
3) A nice bass line doesn't hurt either. I love bass in any kind of music.