Rap Music

Quote:

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Originally posted by Oneironaut
Nice work, yo. :goodjob2:

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thanks :D

*edit
ah nuts, new page
now no-one will bloody read it, cause it's on the page before

Just to add a voice of authority in here.....

BAMBAATAA EXPLAINS THE MEANING OF HIP HOP
by - Afrika Bambaataa

The Universal Zulu Nation calls on the World to recognize the whole
month of November as HIP HOP HISTORY MONTH! The official birthday of
the Universal Zulu Nation is November 12, 1973. The official birthday
of Hip Hop is November 12th, 1974.

With consideration to the above mentioned dates, nothing makes more
sense than to celebrate Hip Hop culture and it's history during
November, which is exactly what the Universal Zulu Nation has been
doing for over 27 + years. November is also significant in the fact
that it kicks off the "indoor jam season". The Hip Hop community
jams, enjoyed outdoors in the parks, throughout the Summer, had to
move indoors for about 7 months to community centers, gymnasiums,
schools etc. for the Fall and Winter seasons. The Hip Hop World
should recognize this month and pay tribute to those who laid the
foundation and paved the way as well as to those who continue to
preserve the rich tradition of the culture.

In the early years of the culture, the movement went untitled until
Afrika Bambaataa, started calling it "Hip Hop", a term originated by
Lovebug Starski. In the 70's, ten years prior to it's gaining global
recognition, Hip Hop was a celebration of life gradually developing
each of it's elements to form a cultural movement. Due to it's
energy, dynamics, and momentum, Hip Hop culture has become,
ultimately, a key to upliftment and reformation, as well as a
billion-dollar industry.

From the 80's on, the Rap industry and media have helped to make the
terms "Hip Hop" and "Rap" synonymous, leaving out the other elements
included in the culture. In light of this enormous oversight, the
Zulu Nation promotes the "5th element" of Hip Hop, which is KNOWLEDGE,
and actively tries to educate the masses about the history and
foundational elements of true Hip Hop culture.

Bambaataa declared: "When we made Hip Hop, we made it hoping it would
be about peace, love, unity and having fun so that people could get
away from the negativity that was plaguing our streets (gang violence,
drug abuse, self hate, violence among those of African and Latino
descent). Even though this negativity still happens here and there,
as the culture progresses, we play a big role in conflict resolution
and enforcing positivity."

Hip Hop is the Vehicle to Deliver Innumerable Lessons! Afrika
Bambaataa doesn't believe that Hip Hop heads should just have
knowledge of Hip Hop. He promotes and proves that Hip Hop can be used
as a vehicle for teaching awareness, knowledge, wisdom, understanding,
freedom, justice, equality, peace, unity, love, respect,
responsibility and recreation, overcoming challenges, economics,
mathematics. science, life, truth, facts and faith.

The Elements:

Hip Hop culture is defined as a movement which is expressed through
various artistic mediums which we call "elements". The main elements
are known as MC'ing (Rapping), DJ'ing, WRITING (Aerosol Art), SEVERAL
DANCE FORMS (which include Breaking, Up-Rocking, Popping, and Locking)
and the element which holds the rest together: KNOWLEDGE. There are
also other elements such as Vocal Percussion/Beat Boxing, Fashion,
etc. Within the past 20 years, Hip-Hop culture has greatly influenced
the entertainment world with its creative contributions in music,
dance, art, poetry, and fashion.

Due to their lack of knowledge about the whole of Hip Hop culture,
many of our world's youth are mistaken in thinking that activities
such as: smoking blunts, drinking 40's, wearing a designer label
plastered across their chest, carrying a gun, or going to strip clubs,
are "Hip Hop". Hip Hop is being portrayed negatively by many artists
who work in the element of Rap (emceeing), and this negativity is
usually instigated and promoted by the record industry and various
other corporations who exploit the culture at the expense of the
youth's state of mind and morality. The Universal Zulu Nation
believes there is a difference in speaking out about negativity
(activism) and promoting it as a desirable lifestyle. Gangsters,
pimps, playas, hustlers, niggers, spics, and many other derogatory
words once used against us are now self employed in our everyday
vocabulary. Our ancestors who have fought and died trying to free us
from these sicknesses and slave mentality are probably turning over in
their graves! Bambaataa asks you to just think about this, "How in
the hell did we turn from gods to dogs?"

Afrika Bambaataa encourages you to do more research about our story,
his/her-story, and what you think is your mystery is actually your
history. Where are our Hip Hop thinkers, lawyers, holistic doctors,
scientists, agriculturalists/herbalists, revolutionaries, politicians,
judges, researchers, teachers, police, army, accountants,
anthropologists, etc. Where is our own Hip Hop Museum? Many talk the
talk but don't walk the walk. Many straight out sell-out to the
liberation of our people as well as to all humans on the planet so
called Earth! He also encourages you to do research on any Hip Hop
organization that deals with consciousness and the upliftment of all
people. To all those who purposely make up your own history and lie
about the culture- DO YOUR RESEARCH!

You can contact the Universal Zulu Nation at their main website
http://www.zulunation.com/ and to explore links to other Zulu chapters
and websites.

Thank you in advance for forwarding this announcement to everyone you
know!

Peace and Blessings Afrika Bambaataa & the entire Universal Zulu
Nation.

As we say in Zulu - respect the many universes and especially mother
earth - cause if you don't she will spit your asses out!

Quote:

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Originally posted by Oneironaut
To Universal Mind:

Well unfortunately, you're basing your opinions off of the wrong side of rap. You are taking rap at face-value, when the only faces you know of are the ones that are flashed on the tv screen day in and day out. The catch is that these faces are a mockery of the original concept of hip-hop/rap and in no way represent the majority of hip-hop talents that are virtually surpressed from public view. There are so many artists out there with the same creative style as DJ-Quik, today, I couldn't even begin to name them all. Even DJ Quik and Easy-E had the same sort of materialistic concepts, which is good or bad, depending on the listener. There are many great artists out there that don't even resort to that. You should find them.
The problem with pop-culture is that the People don't Decide what is big, they are Told. Its one hell of an illusion, if you ask me. You think the industry is going to just flip-flop and start replacing the bs ganster rap that dominates the airwaves with the deep, conscious, thought-provoking, linguistic stylings of most underground rappers, completely with songs over-loaded with admirable vocabulary skills, metaphors, political views and whatnot? That would be like a slave-master giving his \"property\" weapons and teaching them martial arts. Think about it.
Knowing this, as you should know now, you should not be willing to base your judgement of \"what rap is\" by what you hear on the radio and tv screens. If you don't really care that your opinion is not a fair assessment of rap as a whole, then that is your perogative, but if you value having a respectable opinion on something as black-market as True Talented hip-hop artists, talk to people that know about them. Try getting some artists' names and track listings, and do enough research to actually put some support to your judgement.

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I know that what you are saying is true. I don't dispute it. But you asked me why I am ready for rap to go away, and it is because I am sick of the crap (which you just admitted is crap) that dominates my television stations that play music videos and so forth. I am ready for IT to go away, and as you said, it is the type of rap that is here to stay for a very long time, unfortunately.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ynot
oh dear......

rappers delight ?!?

go boil your head

that song caused the downfall of hip-hop DJ's

you horrible, distusting man
I despise you

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I take it you must be joking? If so, peace and ha ha. If not, then, uh, Rapper's Delight was the birth of popular rap. But you will not find Rapper's Delight anywhere in my humongous CD collection, ever. The only two rap albums I own are NWA's Striaght Out Of Compton and the Menace II Society soundtrack. I hope this information soothes your vagina ache.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Universal Mind
I take it you must be joking? If so, peace and ha ha. If not, then, uh, Rapper's Delight was the birth of popular rap. But you will not find Rapper's Delight anywhere in my humongous CD collection, ever. The only two rap albums I own are NWA's Striaght Out Of Compton and the Menace II Society soundtrack. I hope this information soothes your vagina ache.

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I wasn't joking, no - but I was maybe a bit harsh
cause I don't think it was ever Sylvia Robinson's intention to undermine hip-hop
it just turned out that way

Rappers delight is a great track that broke many barriers, don't get me wrong
but it started something - and that thing was not good
the errosion of the DJ
Let me explain.....

Rappers delight was a turning point in hip-hop, as you said, it was the first major hip-hop song to be pressed to wax and sold to the public.

no-one (to my knowledge) had ever tried to professionally record a hip-hop tune before
so it was new territory for everyone

at the time, the thought of having a DJ spin vinyl in a studio, recording what he did and pressing a new record out of it was absurd
(akin to paying graf writers for their work, I suppose :wink: )
so they didn't
they used drum machine's and samplers with the MC's rhyming over the top
The thinking was - DJ's for live performances, samplers for studio cuts.

this completely alienated the DJ when hip-hop blew up in the wake of rappers delight, as they were not on the records at all. The MC's were all fine and dandy, as they were getting paid to rhyme on the record, but the DJ's were getting squat.
The record companies loved this, as they only had to pay the rapper's, and they could have full control over the samples used (and so keep the royalties down to a minimum)

The situation compounded even further when rap artists started cropping up who didn't even have a DJ, they just used samplers all the time
and so the art of hip-hop DJ'ing pretty much died on the commercial level.

and that's what people heard on the radio, and bought on record, and ultimately associated as hip-hop

There is, however, a happy ending to this story
but, I shall leave 'The Return of the DJ' story for another day

- Tony

For a long time i would not listen to anything else but rap and the first couple of rock songs i first started liking was almost embarassing. But now i have realized just how repetitive and horrible 99% of mainstream rap is. People bash and hate rap to no end, but it's probably only because they have only been exposed to the terrible mainstream rap. I didn't read all of the posts in this thread but i got the idea people have been mentioned this already. I can totally understand why people would hate rap so much because of this. But alot of these people haven't been exposed to every side of rap. Real, raw, unrecorded and uncommercialized rap is what people aren't hearing. The real thing exists deep underground in freestyles that nobody will ever hear again once they are over. I loved seeing guys spill their skills relentlessly over and over again just to make people say OHHH :) brings back great memories. I remember watching this guy in highschool once who let lose freestyling for at least 10 minutes non stop, amazing me with every line. Anybody who hates rap should have been there, they wouldn't believe the talent required to do something like that. If you want to hear a good rap cd buy ATLiens by Outkast, there are few rap CDs that equal it lyrically, musically, and intelligently.

I like the ones about peace, love and unity. Not the ones with all that cursing and putting down females.

Quote:

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Originally posted by warn81
I like the ones about peace, love and unity. Not the ones with all that cursing and putting down females.

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Now if we could only get the popular radio stations to feel the same way, we'd be getting somewhere. :cry:

Anyone know when Immortal Technique's new Revolution Vol. 3 is coming out?
I wanna snag that shit and blast it in all directions. No one shall be without Immortal!
He is one raw mother fuckin hard core rapper! :D

Bam's on the case

http://www.allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=5381

Actually, Rap Music is simply more proof of the progressive decline of musical discernment in the general public, while continuing with the trend that has allowed the Record Companies to reduce even further what they expect from and contribute to their 'talent'.

Look at where it all started with Mass Media and the Recording Business. The Radio Waves and the Recordings were occuppied by Big Bands and Philharmonic Orchestras. The public was fairly educated musically. In every middleclass family and many working class families, music lessons were as much a part of growing up as homework or Little League. The Popular Music was complex. People then could understand it.

But the World Depression and then the World War must have interrupted the music lessons for a generation, and tastes dropped to Rock and Roll. The Recording Companies discovered that they could sell the same vinyl with a few kids playing a few guitars and a drum, as they were with complete bands and skilled musicians. So the skilled musicians lost work, and kids fresh out of school, willing to start for nothing, got all the work. The music suffered for it. Melodies and timing signitures simplified and primitivized. Harmonies became elementary.

But teenagers grow up. It was interesting as the Sixties turned into the Seventies and the teenagers of Rock and Roll grew up and developed -- expanding their music to, well, grown up proportions. But here again the decline in the tastes of the general public could not support a sophisticated Taste, and a new Generation of Rock and Roll stepped up, or rather, stepped down, again emphasizing the original plan of reduced expectations, reduced talent, reduced skill. Afterall, schools no longer educated students in Music Education, so only the most basic and rudimentary of tastes needed be appealed to.

Rap is perhaps the furthest step down now. Now, the no-talent teenage kids willing to start for nothing, now they don't even have to know how to play guitar. Music without musicians. The triumph of mediocrity. Civilization has returned to the Jungle where we can only expect to have primitives beating on logs -- dancing around the fire, chanting unsophisticated war cries.

But it is all One with the rest of Western Culture where writing is crap, art is crap and it would not be complete unless music were also crap. Thank God engineering has not gone the way of the Arts, and one can buy a car or motorcycle that has improved upon the offerings of the 19th Century. Perhaps it is an indication of the Rise of Materialism and the Decline in Spirituality. Engineering advanced, but the Arts plunged to a low that even the most Barbaric of Cultures would have been ashamed of. No more prodigies, no more Mozarts. Now all we need are foul-mouths who can rhyme their obsenities.

Spoken like someone with absolutely nothing more than a superficial knowledge (if any) of the varying levels of lyrical talent enveloped in the Whole of rap music. That kind of stuff may fly when uttered into a group that knows nothing of the works of the real (and the supressed) lyricists, where the only counter-arguement would be an incompetent and unsupportable "Nuh uh. Rap is tight!" which would do nothing to dispel your own, however popular, misconception.

The funny thing about opinions such as yours, Leo, is that, when applied to the area of popular, high-profile poetry, they often expose the hypocrisy that the speakers, themselves, are oblivious to.

Unless you're going to tell me that there is no such thing as Talented Poetry (which, I'm assuming, would be akin to blasphemy to a peson like yourself, with such 'high standards') then you must concede that there is a lot to be said for writing down a bunch of words using the height of your literary skills, no? (Granted tactless rants are nothing to defend, I agree with you there, but one cannot be ignorant of the lyrical talent out there and properly insult rap as a Whole, as you're failing to do now.)

If some of the high-profile poets of the past were to somehow ressurect and hold a "Concert of the Millenium" at Carnegie, (I'm, again, Assuming) you would sell your next of kin to get yourself in the show. If someone equally as talented, yet world reknowned under the much-loathed label of "Rapper," was slotted to perform, you would write them off with the same kind of misguided rhetoric that you just put in your last post, without knowing nothing of the person's past works, or present literary skills.

My Native Land
Poem lyrics of My Native Land by Sir Walter Scott.

Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my own, my native land!
Whose heart hath ne'er within him burn'd,
As home his footsteps he hath turn'd
From wandering on a foreign strand!
If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
For him no Minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung

L'Envoi
Poem lyrics of L'Envoi by Rudyard Kipling.

When Earth's last picture is painted and the tubes are twisted and dried,
When the oldest colours have faded, and the youngest critic has died,
We shall rest, and, faith, we shall need it -- lie down for an aeon or two,
Till the Master of All Good Workmen shall put us to work anew!

And those that were good shall be happy: they shall sit in a golden chair;
They shall splash at a ten-league canvas with brushes of comets' hair;
They shall find real saints to draw from -- Magdalene, Peter, and Paul;
They shall work for an age at a sitting and never be tired at all!

And only the Master shall praise us, and only the Master shall blame;
And no one shall work for money, and no one shall work for fame,
But each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
Shall draw the Thing as he sees It for the God of Things as They Are!

================================================== ========

Where Do We Go?
by: Talib Kweli
http://media.putfile.com/Talib-Kweli---Where-Do-We-Go

[Chorus: Res - repeat 2X]
Where do we go? What do we say? What do we do?
Nowhere to turn, nowhere to run and there's nothin new
Where do we go for exploration?
It's like pain is our only inspiration

[Talib Kweli]
Yea, I see a place where little boys and girls
Are shells in the oceans, not knowin they are pearls.
No one to hold 'em while they're growin
They're livin' moment to moment without a care in the whole world
Now, if I could help it, I'll tell it just like it is
And I may say some things that you don't like to hear
I know this: that people lie, people kneel
People die, people heal, people steal, and people shed tears
What's real, blood spills, gun kills, the sun still - rise
Above me, trust me, it must be, morning - time
Wake up, the stakes up
Everybody want their cake up, (<--getting more dough, for the slang impaired) to break up with the crew
But when the karma comes back for what you do
It's too late to make up - some excuse

[Chorus]

[Talib Kweli]
I come from people who stand stronger than time and space
Wherever there's competition you gonna find the race
I find a place in my heart for this hip-hop
It pumps blood through my vein, my skin get hot
I take it very serious, it makes me write more
If I don't celebrate I got nothing to fight for
I'm type raw, excite y'all like nightfall
I'm tight y'all, I walk the street like y'all
About action, talk is cheap, right y'all?
You start yappin' think about the beef you might cause
The trouble you could get into
You don't study, you're not prepared and cats is testin you
What you gonna do when you gotta face
The manifestation of the words that you put in space
But they're already there, you cant take 'em out
The studio gangsta inside you tryin' to break out

[Chorus]

[Repeat first verse]

We Know
Talib f/ Faith Evans
http://media.putfile.com/Talib-and-Faith---We-Know

(1st Verse) [Talib Kweli]
My name is Kweli and I love to spit it homie
I rap about love and life, ladies get to know me
If you feelin' lonely, I can be your one and only
I put it out in the world, so people show me... love (echoes)
Yeah, I always get it back
This ain't no pimp game here, that's a different track
We talkin' this and that, we need to get with this
I keep it realer than most, this is our business

(Chorus) [Faith Evans]
What we gotta do to make them see
We got a good thing going on
Wanna tell the world if they don't know
That what we have is real
Wanna shout it from the mountains baby
That I love you, but if they don't hear me
I know, you know, we know

(2nd Verse) [Talib Kweli]
Heheh, yeah..
Yo, hey baby look like you need a break tonight
Let me make it right, baby won't you stay the night
I got a lot of love as you know you're my favorite right?
Hey my lady, what we gon' make tonight (our love...)
That's the dream, but I never sleep
Across the crowded room, our eyes forever meet
But without doubt and gloom, cuz we can never be
That's why I got to go, cuz you're my impossible love
Your the horizon I can see but never ride off into
I write my lyrics to you, you the perfect instrumental
I sound better than the cat who rappin' to you now
That's between me and you, what happened to us now?
Got you hopin' for the glorious
Waitin' for that victorious feelin' wanted by all of us
Kneelin' and praying that the lord in us will help us love ourselves
So much that the confidence attract to someone else

(Chorus) [Faith Evans]

(3rd Verse) [Talib Kweli]
Yo, Rockin' Los Angeles, House of Blues on Sunset
Performin' like an orgasm, my girl ain't even cum yet
Seen her by the side of the stage givin' me energy
Potentially, wife material connectin' mentally
I felt like heaven sent for me, you're meant for me
The doubters and the haters had to acknowledge eventually
You was a non-believer too if memory serves
On that hard-to-get shit, tryin' to play your boy for the herb
The harder that I run to you, the farther you become
It's like my heart was part of some movie that hadn't yet begun
This woman moves me and I'm a mountain of a man
You pull me in like the waves do the grain of sand (love, love, love...)
Yeah, I love the way you bring it to me
I wrote a song for you, I love to hear you to sing it for me
And let the melody carry me through the jealousy
And we can Cruise like Tom and Penelope

(Chorus) [Faith Evans]

================================================== ===============

To insult rap music as a whole, you have to actually weigh it As A Whole, and (call me crazy, bu) I find it hard to believe, Leo, that you are the type to listen to various rap artists in your spare time trying to justly differentiate the talent from the 'crap.' Am I wrong?

To beat the hell out of the dead horse, yet again, if your knowledge of rap music does not expand beyond the processed, degenerative Bullshit that they force feed you through the mainstream, in the hopes of distorting the collective consciousness of "What Rap Is," then, no matter how intelligent you think may be, you are ill-equiped to give anything more than a deluded perspective on it.

There is a Reason that most of the people who defend rap/hip-hop don't listen to the radio, and the people that degrade it have no clue of what exists through the looking glass.

God damn, Leo
we're talking personal tastes, here
just cause you don't like something, doesn't mean it's crap

Lambasting things cause you don't like them
how childish, really, can you get

Anyway...
I've always said
If classical orchestras can adopt swing time
it'd be the best musical performance ever
but sadly, no

I've realized that most of the pro-rap arguements fall on deaf ears, mainly, because none of these people will actually take the time to seek out some of the songs that others tell them are supportive to the positives of rap music.
So, that being said, I think the best way to convey my opinions is to take the time to upload some of these songs and post links to them and their lyrics. Those of you who actually want to give some justification to your own opinions should listen to some of the songs that others recommend. That way you can actually have some sort of base for your thoughts on "What Rap Is."

I'll be adding more throughout this thread periodically. Talib is probably my favorite artist, so you'll probably see a lot of his stuff up more than anything else.

http://media.putfile.com/Talib-Kweli---Memories-Live15
(Lyrics: http://lyrics.duble.com/T/talibkwelilyrics...slivelyrics.htm )

http://media.putfile.com/Pharoah-Common-an...lib---The-Truth
(Lyrics: most of the lyrics I find for this song are incorrect, but good enough: http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=85411 )

Quote:

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Originally posted by Oneironaut
Music is such a personal experience, that I really think changing someones opinion on a type of music is impossible

I, for instance, have to discover things on my own
if someone says to me
"you've got to check out this rock band, they're really good"

more often than not, I won't
My own prejudices kick in
"Bah, rock is a black music form bastardised by the whites, most people think elvis invented it for christ's sake - morons"

The band might be the best thing since sliced bread, but I still won't listen to them

However, it's a completely different story if I discover new music on my own.

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*edit*
and let's not forget the outcry that caused
Oh come on, your wrong
ra ra ra :-P

But I'm not bitter :lol:

Lol. Well we can't all be as hard-headed as you, Tony. :cooler:
Besides, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion of what is and isn't good music. I'm trying to help people be less ignorant about passing judgements on types of music they have hardly any knowledge of. I wouldn't say that's impossible, but even if it were, I'll continue to state my case whenever people, that know nothing about the subject, trash something that I respect. :wink:

it just gets extremely tiring, after a while
it's one of the reasons I stepped down as admin and senior moderator of a hip-hop board
we were part of an indepentant artists syndicate (big mistake, in hindsight)
not a month went by without a few posts popping up about how rap = crap
or some other over-used bollocks

I'll answer proper questions, and any thing of a serious nature
but I refuse to justify to people Hip-Hop's presence in the music world
screw that

what really pisses me off is the lack of a reason
why do people want to denounce hip-hop?
no other music form gets so constantly slated
yes, gangsta rap paints a sorry picture of hip-hop
yes, it's what most people associate with the art form
but what really took the biscuit, was we had a community of artists making and distrubuting music online for free
all manner of different styles and types
and still we had ignorant peasants posting about how hip-hop's only about guns and bitches

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ynot
God damn, Leo
we're talking personal tastes, here
just cause you don't like something, doesn't mean it's crap

Lambasting things cause you don't like them
how childish, really, can you get

Anyway...
I've always said
If classical orchestras can adopt swing time
it'd be the best musical performance ever
but sadly, no

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So, I write an entire essay delineating the decline of music in World Culture -- the virtual disappearance of musicians from the scene -- and all you can say is that I am applying my 'taste' unfairly.

yes, I understand your point -- that monkeys do indeed really really enjoy beating sticks on a log and jumping and hooting. But understand my viewpoint -- that if they could comprehend Mozart or Cole Porter, they would enjoy it even more.

What we have here is Elaboration of Knowledge and Understanding pitted against Primitive Uneducated Animal Appeal. yes, you take the side of the Animals. But it is more than a matter of taste, my siding with the Acquired Tastes of a Civilized Elaboration of Musical Traditions. Study Music. You will find that it took Centuries for Music to reach the levels of Sophistication that it had. But only two or three Generations to totally decline to beating upon logs again and dancing around the fire.

Taste. Taste indeed.

Heh. Way to point-dodge, Neo. - I mean Leo. :chuckle:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Leo Volont
So, I write an entire essay delineating the decline of music in World Culture -- the virtual disappearance of musicians from the scene -- and all you can say is that I am applying my 'taste' unfairly.

yes, I understand your point -- that monkeys do indeed really really enjoy beating sticks on a log and jumping and hooting. *But understand my viewpoint -- that if they could comprehend Mozart or Cole Porter, they would enjoy it even more. *

What we have here is Elaboration of Knowledge and Understanding pitted against Primitive Uneducated Animal Appeal. * yes, you take the side of the Animals. *But it is more than a matter of taste, my siding with the Acquired Tastes of a Civilized Elaboration of Musical Traditions. *Study Music. *You will find that it took Centuries for Music to reach the levels of Sophistication that it had. *But only two or three Generations to totally decline to beating upon logs again and dancing around the fire. *

Taste. *Taste indeed.

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No
You did not

You used a lot of wooly words that took up a lot of lines
but didn't actually say very much
You clearly implied you're a classical music listener
You picked out Rock & Roll and Hip-Hop, and stated that they are a lesser form of music than Classical
You also had something in there about the record industry, that didn't really make any sense

But what it lacked was any sort of musical evidence

Please Leo, blind me with your superior knowledge

Can I suggest your next post goes something like this

"Classical music is a far more diverse form of music than the modern day 4/4 beat variants
There is an enormously wide variety of time signitures and musical constructs available to artists
yet all you seem to focus on is the classic "dance" formula, which is very limiting
The entire concept of Compound Time has been lost - most probably never to return

Such is life, but I much prefer my music interesting and diverse

Simple duple - 4/4
Simple triple - 3/4
Compound duple - 6/8
Compound triple - 9/8"

I don't know
Something
Just something with some substance

And that whole thing about monkeys......

I like log beating monkey music
But more importantly, my musical knowledge spreads a lot further than that
Dare I say, a lot more than yours

(Still one my favorite songs of all time.)

http://media.putfile.com/Black-Star-ft-Com...n---Respiration

Talib Kweli & Hi Tek F/ Mos Def, Common - Respiration

"What'd you do last night?"
"We did umm, two whole cars
It was me, Dez, and Main Three right?
And on the first car in small letters it said
'All you see is..' and then you know
big, big, you know some block silver letters
that said '..crime in the city' right?"
"It just took up the whole car?"
"Yeah yeah, it was a whole car and shit..."

[spanish speaking woman] Escuchela.. la ciudad respirando
(translation of spanish: Listen to it.. the city breathing)

* woman repeats 3X *

[spanish speaking woman] Escuchela..

[Mos Def]
The new moon rode high in the crown of the metropolis
Shinin, like who on top of this?
People was tusslin, arguin and bustlin
Gangstaz of Gotham hardcore hustlin
I'm wrestlin with words and ideas
My ears is picky, seekin what will transmit
the scribes can apply to transcript, yo
This ain't no time where the usual is suitable
Tonight alive, let's describe the inscrutable
The indisputable, we New York the narcotic
Strength in metal and fiber optics
where mercenaries is paid to trade hot stock tips
for profits, thirsty criminals take pockets
Hard knuckles on the second hands of workin class watches
Skyscrapers is collosus, the cost of living
is preposterous, stay alive, you play or die, no options
No Batman and Robin, can't tell between
the cops and the robbers, they both partners, they all heartless
With no conscience, back streets stay darkened
Where unbeliever hearts stay hardened
My eagle talons STAY sharpened, like city lights stay throbbin
You either make a way or stay sobbin, the Shiny Apple
is bruised but sweet and if you choose to eat
You could lose your teeth, many crews retreat
Nightly news repeat, who got shot down and locked down
Spotlight to savages, NASDAQ averages
My narrative, rose to explain this existance
Amidst the harbor lights which remain in the distance

So much on my mind that I can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine
Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine
Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline
Heard the bass ride out like an ancient mating call
I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathin
Chest heavin, against the flesh of the evening
Sigh before we die like the last train leaving

[Talib Kweli]
Breathin in deep city breaths, sittin on shitty steps
we stoop to new lows, hell froze the night the city slept
The beast crept through concrete jungles
communicatin with one another
And ghetto birds where waters fall
from the hydrants to the gutters
The beast walk the beats, but the beats we be makin
You on the wrong side of the track, lookin visibly shaken
Taken them plungers, plungin to death that's painted by the numbers
with crime unapplied pressure, cats is playin God
but havin children by a lesser baby mother but fuck it
we played against each other like puppets, swearin you got pull
when the only pull you got is the wool over your eyes
Gettin knowledge in jail like a blessing in disguise
Look in the skies for God, what you see besides the smog
is broken dreams flying away on the wings of the obscene
Thoughts that people put in the air
Places where you could get murdered over a glare
But everything is fair
It's a paradox we call reality
So keepin it real will make you casualty of abnormal normality
Killers Born Naturally like, Mickey and Mallory
Not knowing the ways'll get you capped like an NBA salary
Some cats be emceeing to illustrate what we be seeing
Hard to be a spiritual being when shit is shakin what you believe in
For trees to grow in Brooklyn, seeds need to be planted
I'm asking if y'all feel me AND THE CROWD LEFT ME STRANDED
My blood pressure boiled and rose, cause New York niggaz
actin spoiled at shows, to the winners the spoils go
I take the L, transfer to the 2, head to the gates
New York life type trife the Roman Empire state

[Mos Def and crew]
So much on my mind I just can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine
Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine
Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline
Yo don't the bass ride out like an ancient mating call
I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathin
Chest heavin, against the flesh of the evening
Sigh before we die like the last train leaving

[spanish speaking woman] Escuchela.. respirando ??

[Common]
Yo...on The Amen, Corner I stood lookin at my former hood
Felt the spirit in the wind, knew my friend was gone for good
Threw dirt on the casket, the hurt, I couldn't mask it
Mixin down emotions, struggle I hadn't mastered
I coreograph seven steps to heaven
And hell, waiting to exhale and make the bread leavened
Veteran of a cold war It's Chica-I-go for
What I know or, what's known
So some days I take the bus home, just to touch home
From the crib I spend months gone
Sat by the window with a clutched dome listenin to shorties cuss long
Young girls with weak minds, but they butt strong
Tried to call, or at least beep the Lord, but didn't have a touch-tone
It's a dog-eat-dog world, you gotta mush on
Some of this land I must own
Outta the city, they want us gone
Tearin down the 'jects creatin plush homes
My circumstance is between Cabrini and Love Jones
Surrounded by hate, yet I love home
Ask my God how he thought travellin the world sound
Found it hard to imagine he hadn't been past downtown
It's deep, I heard the city breathe in its sleep
Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep
Deep, I heard my man breathe in his sleep
Of reality I touch, but for me it's hard to keep

[Mos Def and crew]
So much on my mind I just can't recline
Blastin holes in the night til she bled sunshine
Breathe in, inhale vapors from bright stars that shine
Breathe out, weed smoke retrace the skyline
Yo how the bass ride out like an ancient mating call
I can't take it y'all, I can feel the city breathing
Chest heavin, against the flesh of the evening
Kiss the Ide's goodbye, I'm on the last train leaving

Righty ho,
I'll take the old school side of things

The song that gave birth to Electro

Doug E Fresh - Play This Only At Night

[quote]

Quote:

---

I like log beating monkey music
But more importantly, my musical knowledge spreads a lot further than that
Dare I say, a lot more than yours

---

So, you KNOW more about muscis than I do. But you will still betray all of it over to drum beating monkeys.

Which brings us to the matter of appreciation. You know Music but you hate it.

Perhaps one can understand things far too completely. One kills the organism that one disects.

I may not KNOW Music entirely well. But I can appreciate that where once Civilization was deep in Musicians and where everybody now freely admits that the Height of Musical Civilization is now well past; and I lament that the modern trends in popular music have shaped around smaller and cheaper orgnizations and bands, toward less and less and cheaper and cheaper forms of talent; and that the Public is no longer entertained by the BEST of music but only by Music that has clear copyright and the potential for short term profit. Good music is forgotten. Great music recedes further everyday, so that new copyrights can milk ever new generations of stupid teenagers of their Milk Money.

So, that is what you KNOW and approve of.

Well, this is what I hope. I hope your Life goes the way of Popular Music. Honestly. Now you observe and see if it gets better or worse. And remember, you asked for it.

Leo,

See my post at the bottom of page 5 - this will actually confirm your statement about "so that new copyrights can milk ever new generations of stupid teenagers of their Milk Money."

Also, can I ask how old you are?
and confirm your musical tastes
(Renaissance, baroque, romantic, classical or modern)

*Edit*
I've asked for our little debate to be split
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27239

What I'm tripping on, is why Leo refuses to admit his dislike for pop-culture music has absolutely nothing to do with the Whole of Rap Music, which is, I thought, what this thread was based upon. The entire "essay" on the decline of popular music has nothing to do with the concept of "the whole of rap music." The sooner you understand that, Leo, the more you will understand our perspective.

Tell me Leo, do you honestly believe that one who adores classical music for the countless reasons thare are to, cannot also have enough respect for poetic writing and verbal stylings to know talent when they hear it, even when it comes from a realm as, obviously, misunderstood as rap music?

Do you believe that one that listens to one side of the spectrum must be instinctively ignorant of talent that is outside of that particular box?

I, for one, grew up playing the piano. Fur Elise, Greensleeves, Moonlight Sonata, etc. I've taken the time to get familiar with all of these songs enough to teach myself from the sheet music. Can you say the same for the Entire Genre that you're insulting?
For someone to tell me that my love for hip-hop is some how a betrayal to the classical works that have yet to have been (and probably never will be, in many ways) surpassed is funny. (albeit insulting) I would love to hear the logic behind it.

Your overstuffed analogy of the concept of rap music being as "monkeys beating on logs" is no different from me saying Shakespere, Poe, Hemingway, Twain etc, were just a bunch of neanderthals sitting around the fire going "Ugh. Ooh. AH!" to the beat of the logs being played.

Just because you grow out of being impressed by nursery rhymes doesn't mean you wage war on poetry itself.

Do your intellect a much deserved justice and marinate on that for a moment. :|

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Oneironaut


Now if we could only get the popular radio stations to feel the same way, we'd be getting somewhere. :cry:

---

yep...I don't know why they don't play them often.

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The people who say they hate rap and hip-hop hardly ever listen to it...so how can they hate it.