Thread: Q&A Episode 4: Timing REM Cycles, 100% Lucidity, Dream Jump Cuts

Another episode, woohoo!

Nice episode; thanks for addressing my question

You both talked a lot about the "Where have I been / where am I / where am I going?" RC, and I agree that's a great RC. Of course, the problem is remembering to do RCs in the first place, which is what dreamsigns are supposed to help with .... I guess what it boils down to is that I need to put a lot more energy into awareness techniques that aren't specifically "triggered" by anything (I know Ophelia mentioned SAT during the podcast).

Originally Posted by Nazrax

Nice episode; thanks for addressing my question

You both talked a lot about the "Where have I been / where am I / where am I going?" RC, and I agree that's a great RC. Of course, the problem is remembering to do RCs in the first place, which is what dreamsigns are supposed to help with .... I guess what it boils down to is that I need to put a lot more energy into awareness techniques that aren't specifically "triggered" by anything (I know Ophelia mentioned SAT during the podcast).

Thanks, Nazrax, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

You're absolutely right. Remembering to do this in the first place is the big trick. The main idea with dreamsigns is to catch them when they occur in waking life in the hopes that you'll catch them in the dream in the same way.

The closest analogue to this that I can come up with in waking life are those moments where you catch yourself having been on auto-pilot and seem to have "just appeared" somewhere. Ever have those situations where you get lost in thought and go through just about your entire commute without noticing/remember anything that happened? Dreams mimic this "mind wandering" feeling to great effect and we just assume that we got here... somehow.

In other words, I think you're correct about the value of awareness work. The slip of attention and that feeling of having just been on autopilot is a great dreamsign, but you need the awareness and prospective memory training to catch it and then perform that quick reverse reality check. Sageous has remarked before that it's most importantly about self-awareness more than anything.

I think that when that self-awareness becomes a semi-permanent state is when people start experiencing very high rates of lucidity. Still working my way up to that.

Ah I'm lucky just subscribed to these podcasts two days ago and now another ones out! :O I'm looking forward to listening to it and I have loved the past ones. You, Rarecola and Ophelia have great voices that I like listening to and even when you go on tangents its always fun and still good information Keep it up guys! Downloading this now :O when its on iTunes

I really like this.

Very informative.

*Approval of Dezz*

Oh goodness, have I missed your podcasts! Thank you! You both had me laughing in that section about the co-worker and her piece of chocolate! To answer your question from the podcast Ms. Blue , the 100% I was thinking of would be being able to get lucid at least once any night that you try to no matter how many different things or times you try that night. I am always amazed how well you two work together.

I enjoyed it a lot again - thank you two for making it!
One of my problems with dream-signs by the way - since you mention it above as well, CanisLucidus - is that they are interestingly almost all from the past - I never come across them these days and can not RRC on them.
So for dreamsigns - I need a sort of imagination/visualisation with mantra, which I sometimes try - but it does and does not work..
What would you do with day-light-shy dream-signs??

Woooow! I thought you stopped doing these podcasts!
I will listen to it very soon!
Thanxs!

Another great podcast!
So you two got me thinking about doorways. My WILD style is a lot like OpheilaBlue and I go out my front door a lot. I had to really think about this though it happened just this morning. I always have the vivid feeling of turning the door nob but I rarely experience actually walking through or even seeing the door actually open. Most of the time I just pop out on my front porch or the next room in my house. I never really realized I was taking a short cut by skipping something so mundane. Maybe it's due to my sense of hurry and do stuff before the dream ends. Not knowing when the dream will suddenly stop gives me a type of phobia. This is really interesting to think about.

In one of the few times I noticed the oddity of jumping from one spot to another, I was sitting at a red light waiting to make a left onto an Interstate ramp, and then I was on the ramp getting ready to merge. I realized I hadn't seen the light turn green, so I concluded I must have run the red (I got really paranoid about it, looking around for police cars and trying to remember if that intersection had red light cameras). It was only after waking that I realized "running the red light" was actually cutting from waiting to turn to having already turned.

Originally Posted by Nazrax

In one of the few times I noticed the oddity of jumping from one spot to another, I was sitting at a red light waiting to make a left onto an Interstate ramp, and then I was on the ramp getting ready to merge. I realized I hadn't seen the light turn green, so I concluded I must have run the red (I got really paranoid about it, looking around for police cars and trying to remember if that intersection had red light cameras). It was only after waking that I realized "running the red light" was actually cutting from waiting to turn to having already turned.

Congratz on 100 posts

Jusk kidding

Originally Posted by spd

Ah I'm lucky just subscribed to these podcasts two days ago and now another ones out! :O I'm looking forward to listening to it and I have loved the past ones. You, Rarecola and Ophelia have great voices that I like listening to and even when you go on tangents its always fun and still good information Keep it up guys! Downloading this now :O when its on iTunes

Thanks! Strongly agreed on RC and Ophelia's voices, they're great. They'd just started podcasting around the time I discovered DreamViews so I "grew up" in LD listening to them. And I'm glad to hear that the tangents are still useful! I'm sometimes amazed at how I end up on some topics.

Originally Posted by SinisterDezz

*Approval of Dezz*

Ha ha, thanks! It's like an official podcast bumper sticker.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

Oh goodness, have I missed your podcasts! Thank you! You both had me laughing in that section about the co-worker and her piece of chocolate! To answer your question from the podcast Ms. Blue , the 100% I was thinking of would be being able to get lucid at least once any night that you try to no matter how many different things or times you try that night. I am always amazed how well you two work together.

Thanks, fogelbise! I wonder if anyone is on "Team CL" as far as what should have been done with the chocolate. LOL. Anyway, keep me in the loop as you approach 100%er status so you can teach me how to do it once you get there.

Originally Posted by StephL

I enjoyed it a lot again - thank you two for making it!
One of my problems with dream-signs by the way - since you mention it above as well, CanisLucidus - is that they are interestingly almost all from the past - I never come across them these days and can not RRC on them.
So for dreamsigns - I need a sort of imagination/visualisation with mantra, which I sometimes try - but it does and does not work..
What would you do with day-light-shy dream-signs??

Thank you, Steph, I'm so glad to hear it! Yeah, for those dreamsigns that don't occur during the day, visualization is the best approach I can think of, either during WBTB or perhaps during meditation at some other time of the day. Mentally running through the scenario of seeing the dreamsign and knowing you are dreaming seems like the best bet. These are definitely trickier, though!

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Woooow! I thought you stopped doing these podcasts!
I will listen to it very soon!
Thanxs!

Yeah, we left a huuuuge gap in between episodes but we're gonna try to keep getting these out for you guys! We (well, actually me, I was the one causing the delays) just had an unusually high level of waking life intrusions the past few months. And thank you, it's good to be doing them again!

Originally Posted by Xanous

Another great podcast!
So you two got me thinking about doorways. My WILD style is a lot like OpheilaBlue and I go out my front door a lot. I had to really think about this though it happened just this morning. I always have the vivid feeling of turning the door nob but I rarely experience actually walking through or even seeing the door actually open. Most of the time I just pop out on my front porch or the next room in my house. I never really realized I was taking a short cut by skipping something so mundane. Maybe it's due to my sense of hurry and do stuff before the dream ends. Not knowing when the dream will suddenly stop gives me a type of phobia. This is really interesting to think about.

That's cool, man, I can imagine just what you're talking about! There are so many times in dreams where it's completely unclear whether you actually made a particular transition or just assumed it happened. I mean, you think about waking life and honestly if I was occasionally warping around while I was lost in thought, I'd have no clue! The brain's so good at filling in the gaps that I think when things jump around in dreams it often smooths out the rough edges.

Originally Posted by Nazrax

In one of the few times I noticed the oddity of jumping from one spot to another, I was sitting at a red light waiting to make a left onto an Interstate ramp, and then I was on the ramp getting ready to merge. I realized I hadn't seen the light turn green, so I concluded I must have run the red (I got really paranoid about it, looking around for police cars and trying to remember if that intersection had red light cameras). It was only after waking that I realized "running the red light" was actually cutting from waiting to turn to having already turned.

That's actually really cool. You may have even been bordering on lucidity. You actually caught the jump in a sense, but just misidentified what it was. If you can form the habit of becoming highly suspicious of those memory gaps, this could be a great way for you to hit lots of LDs.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Thanks, fogelbise! I wonder if anyone is on "Team CL" as far as what should have been done with the chocolate. LOL. Anyway, keep me in the loop as you approach 100%er status so you can teach me how to do it once you get there.

In a dream (and IWL on virtually anything else), Team CL - heck yeah! IWL, in regards to the chocolate, I start to think of what's tracked in on the bottom of everyone's shoes and think about how nasty some bathroom floors are and how that is then carried over to nearby floors, and on and on... Now on the 100%, if I were writing that question today, I would have written it differently...but when I get to the point that I can LD at least once during any night that I try, I am guessing that you will be at that point too...some more years down the road for me I would guess. I am okay with that! I have the long view!

I probably sound like a broken record, but I really could see hearing you two on some nationally syndicated radio show. You have one of those classic radio voices and Ms. Blue has that subtle charm that draws you closer to the speakers.

Best podcast so far! This has come at just at the right time to inspire me to revive my dream practice (poor uni sleep hygiene has destroyed my LDing), and start being more active on DV again, ending my unintentional hiatus. The 100% lucidity part was particularly engaging. Cheers for the shoutout, Canis.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Best podcast so far! This has come at just at the right time to inspire me to revive my dream practice (poor uni sleep hygiene has destroyed my LDing), and start being more active on DV again, ending my unintentional hiatus. The 100% lucidity part was particularly engaging. Cheers for the shoutout, Canis.

DV will get in your bones! Soon enough, you will not even sleep! They wrote "staying up all night" for a reason!
Anyway, I hear they did finish the Novadreamer 2, but yet to 'put it on sale',some money/distribution/something stuff. Ok. Indeed it would be very difficult to do an episode about some LDing aids.

Originally Posted by fogelbise

In a dream (and IWL on virtually anything else), Team CL - heck yeah! IWL, in regards to the chocolate, I start to think of what's tracked in on the bottom of everyone's shoes and think about how nasty some bathroom floors are and how that is then carried over to nearby floors, and on and on... Now on the 100%, if I were writing that question today, I would have written it differently...but when I get to the point that I can LD at least once during any night that I try, I am guessing that you will be at that point too...some more years down the road for me I would guess. I am okay with that! I have the long view!

I probably sound like a broken record, but I really could see hearing you two on some nationally syndicated radio show. You have one of those classic radio voices and Ms. Blue has that subtle charm that draws you closer to the speakers.

Ha ha, I knew it! I'm a man alone on the whole "Would you or wouldn't you eat the maybe-floor-chocolate?" And thanks very much for the compliments, man, that's seriously nice to hear!

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

Best podcast so far! This has come at just at the right time to inspire me to revive my dream practice (poor uni sleep hygiene has destroyed my LDing), and start being more active on DV again, ending my unintentional hiatus. The 100% lucidity part was particularly engaging. Cheers for the shoutout, Canis.

Ctharlhie! It's really good to hear that you're back! I know just what you mean about a wrecked sleep schedule leading to a wrecked LD practice. But you've got the goods, man, and I'm looking forward to seeing you back in the game! Very cool.

Great podcast guys! Thanks for discussing my question.

I guess maybe I didn't explain my point very well though. What I was suggesting is that if I have just woken up at the end of a REM cycle, the brain chemistry is shifting away from REM optimal, so WILD is difficult.

Also, I do wonder, at least for me, if the actual waking up mid-REM gives the brain chemistry a jolt which also ends the REM episode, so that even if you wake just before or during a REM episode, the act of waking resets the dream cycle.

I fully understand and agree with the point about trying to WILD much later.

As to DEILD after waking, I just seem to be unable to stay still! I must practise that one. I always seem to do a stretch on waking which spoils it!

Very nice podcast, especially the "how did I get here part".

..

Great podcast, as always

Yay! Another great episode! ヽ(^。^)ノ

I've actually been doing the multiple induction technique for awhile, I realized and wondered the other day if this was okay to do, glad to hear it is!

Great tutorial by Burke, by the way

I like the "questioning how you got here" RC, if you're good at it I can see getting a lot of LDs from it. I've noticed that a lot of my lucids are from the digital clock RC, probably because most of my lucids start in my house right now

Regarding the chocolate, I think I would've eaten it if there were no signs that it had been dropped, like hair, dents, etc. But it depends on where you are really

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

Great podcast guys! Thanks for discussing my question.

I guess maybe I didn't explain my point very well though. What I was suggesting is that if I have just woken up at the end of a REM cycle, the brain chemistry is shifting away from REM optimal, so WILD is difficult.

Thank you, Goldenspark, I'm glad you enjoyed the podcast! Yeah, it's true that if the REM period really is ending there will be a brief period where you're out of REM for a while. But in the late morning, REM episodes just aren't all that far apart and after a healthy WBTB, you're pretty much due for one. In the late morning, I believe they're often something like 45 minutes to an hour apart.

So overall I wouldn't worry about this too much. If you can get a nice WBTB and then get back to sleep, you should be playing with good odds. And when WILD doesn't happen, falling back on DILD is a great option. It's what I wind up doing the majority of my own attempts!

And keep working the DEILD. It took me a very long time to improve at it, but the work paid off. Resolve to relax, hold still, and just with only the lightest touch wait for the dream to return to you. Good luck!

Originally Posted by jackc45

Very nice podcast, especially the "how did I get here part".

Thanks, jackc!

Originally Posted by Kaenthem

Great podcast, as always

Hey thanks Kaenthem! Great to hear from you, buddy... gonna take some getting used to you not being areyoume!

Originally Posted by Mismagius

Yay! Another great episode! ヽ(^。^)ノ
...
Great tutorial by Burke, by the way
...
Regarding the chocolate, I think I would've eaten it if there were no signs that it had been dropped, like hair, dents, etc. But it depends on where you are really

Thanks, Mismagius! Agreed -- I got to read the Burke tutorial after the podcast and it's a great playbook for an evening of LD attempts.

Can't tell you how much the support on the chocolate question means to me.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

But in the late morning, REM episodes just aren't all that far apart and after a healthy WBTB, you're pretty much due for one.

I always thought the sleep cycles took a "time out" when you were awake during the night, so REM cycles would be delayed by how long you're awake for. For example, if you were "scheduled" to begin your next REM cycle at 4 AM, but you woke up at 3:30 and stayed awake for 20 minutes, that it would move the start of the REM cycle to 4:20. You're saying it would start at 4 AM anyway?