Advanced Vision Control Tutorial

**TehDalek** · 11-14-2013 09:48 PM

More IRC logs from Ailita:

Spoiler for Ailita's shared dreaming experience:

**Ailita** · 11-14-2013 09:55 PM

Soon as i woke up, i jumped on computer and wrote the names and password down, then looked up this place and joined ater a couple of hours worth of reading and really freaking myself out, i joined and sent out pms and came to the chat for a while. I have never been to this site before then but i am familiar with forums in general, i know nothing about lucid dreaming also other than what I've been told since I've been here. Just wanting to talk to nomad if possible.

**Baron Samedi** · 11-16-2013 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Ailita

Soon as i woke up, i jumped on computer and wrote the names and password down, then looked up this place and joined ater a couple of hours worth of reading and really freaking myself out, i joined and sent out pms and came to the chat for a while. I have never been to this site before then but i am familiar with forums in general, i know nothing about lucid dreaming also other than what I've been told since I've been here. Just wanting to talk to nomad if possible.

Hi Ailita. That was Alter, not me or Mylynes. He says didn't mean to make you have such a horrible long night terror. BTW, I personally only give nightmares to people that request it. In fact, I made a thread called, "Who wants a nightmare?" for that purpose. I don't make it a habit to invade people's dreams, but Alter is a little younger than me, and he doesn't realize the full extent of his power, but he's learning.

I upset a friend of mine, before, freaked her out even after she gave me permission to share dreams. Another time, I upset a friend in a shared dream, because he perceived me to be attacking him, but from my perception, I was being playful like Hobbes attacking Calvin when he comes home from school.
Alter and Mylynes almost never post, Mylynes has been inactive for awhile, but in my experience, they are two very powerful Dreamwalkers.

noel: 666 wtf?

**Baron Samedi** · 11-16-2013 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

Hi Ailita. That was Alter, not me or Mylynes. He says didn't mean to make you have such a horrible long night terror. BTW, I personally only give nightmares to people that request it. In fact, I made a thread called, "Who wants a nightmare?" for that purpose. I don't make it a habit to invade people's dreams, but Alter is a little younger than me, and he doesn't realize the full extent of his power, but he's learning.

I upset a friend of mine, before, freaked her out even after she gave me permission to share dreams. Another time, I upset a friend in a shared dream, because he perceived me to be attacking him, but from my perception, I was being playful like Hobbes attacking Calvin when he comes home from school.
Alter and Mylynes almost never post, Mylynes has been inactive for awhile, but in my experience, they are two very powerful Dreamwalkers.

noel: 666 wtf?

444 entries!

**Miau** · 11-16-2013 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

444 entries!

There was the number 666 at the end of the link I gave. That's why I said 666.

**user5659** · 11-16-2013 08:52 PM

Alter, Mylynes, WakingNomad... and anybody else who does shared dreaming. Please give me a nightmare, come to my dream and try to do something. You can even come all together.

If you need I can send you my photo, I can even come to a given location.

From my side I promise to give a honest answer of whatever happened to me. All my dreams are lucid, and I usually recall most of my dreams, so it should be easy for you.
Also I will be having info with me, a 3 digit number that I will share with you if we will meet. The same number is written on the first page of the notebook that is on my desktop. Would be cool if you can get that info too.

**Baron Samedi** · 11-17-2013 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by flowofmysoul

Alter, Mylynes, WakingNomad... and anybody else who does shared dreaming. Please give me a nightmare, come to my dream and try to do something. You can even come all together.

If you need I can send you my photo, I can even come to a given location.

From my side I promise to give a honest answer of whatever happened to me. All my dreams are lucid, and I usually recall most of my dreams, so it should be easy for you.
Also I will be having info with me, a 3 digit number that I will share with you if we will meet. The same number is written on the first page of the notebook that is on my desktop. Would be cool if you can get that info too.

http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...nightmare.html

Click on the question.

**Baron Samedi** · 11-17-2013 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by Noeul55

There was the number 666 at the end of the link I gave. That's why I said 666.

well that is just creepy!

**user5659** · 11-17-2013 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...nightmare.html

Click on the question.

Clicked and left same post there with my fear update.

**Baron Samedi** · 11-18-2013 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by flowofmysoul

Clicked and left same post there with my fear update.

Cool. So, back on topic, I have another idea which worked for me to be able to do this a little bit.

Go outside on a sunny day, close your eyes, and "stare" at the sun with your eyes closed for awhile. Now, go inside, and stare at a white wall. The afterimage of the sun should be on your eyes, like a camera flash. Try to alter the size, shape, and color of the afterimage.

Personally, I have had minimal success with altering my waking life vision. Maybe subconsciously, I am afraid of going crazy. I have been able to change the white of my computer screen to a very light pink and a very light green after reading this tutorial. My suggestion I came upon after staring at the sun's rays through a magnifying glass burning leaves.

**user5659** · 11-18-2013 07:20 PM

Not going crazy, well maybe for some people you do. But if you keep it under control that is a positive skill to have.

In Dubai every day is very sunny, I did something similar with the sun, but without white wall.
I am successfully doing what you call nREM WILD's when I go to beach, so I am lying on the sun and the sun is always just on top of me. So I am facing the sun with closed eyes and trying to relax for some time, then I try to open my eyelids without actually opening them, it looks like double eye lid, you need to stay relax during this process or they will keep closing. That was the moment where I noticed the weird part. I opened my eyes for real and there was so many clouds on top and I could see the sun, sometimes behind clouds, sometimes not. I Closed my eyes and did that fake opening of my eyes and the sky was crystal clear! That's not it, I saw an airplane flying just above my head, and there was no actual sun in my view. Already the feeling was like I am dreaming, similar feelings to nREM WILD. I opened my eyes again and again I could see clouds, no airplane, and sun was over me. At that time it was very new and interesting for me to have what seemed to be a dream while I am awake. So I played with it and tried to relax as much as I can. After some time, noise around me became lower and at that point I already could change my dream, it became completely silent and I knew I am already sleeping. Did similar to what I do in regular nREM WILD when I go to sleep, changed my dream couple of times, tried to relax and concentrated on those parts that were not clear, tried to enlarge my view and tried to make it as vivid as I can.
Then it all worked as if it was regular nREM WILD.. I got into the dream, after some time things faded away and I got into emptiness, then short blank spot of memory and later I appeared in some random dream place, which was already my first DILD.

And this is not a single lucky case to say that I might just miss the part where I felt asleep and that was all dream. I did that around 50 times by now and every time is the same thing. I can both hear my wife talking and I can see that blank sky transforming into my dream, then sound is getting lower, but I still can slightly hear my wife and waves sounds and etc.

edit* I have no idea why every time when I do this, sky becomes crystal clear, maybe that is what I wish? I don't know

**Mylynes** · 11-21-2013 01:33 AM

I would like to share a pm here and my response to it because I faced similar issues when first exploring this system of visual manipulation. I hope this will be able to help someone out. If there are any other questions feel free to post them here or pm me.

Originally Posted by Someone

Hi Matt,

My name is Someone. I'm unsure if you are still active in this community- your activity indicates you aren't. But I am going to attempt to contact you anyway, because there is something I really want to talk to you about.

It concerns your thread, "Advanced Vision Control Tutorial." Basically, I've been attempting to use this technique for a while but have been so far unsuccessful. I then realized that contacting someone who has already mastered it might be beneficial. I am very determined to make this work. Will you consider helping me with this?

Believe it or not, I actually have been trying to teach myself this since before I read your tutorial. I theorized it was possible a long time ago, and eventually came across your thread while I was researching "self-generated controlled hallucinations." Your tutorial was more than I had hoped for, and I set out at once to follow your instructions.

Noticing the "static" wasn't difficult at all. In fact, I remembered seeing it all the time when I was much younger, so mastering step one was more like relearning something forgotten.

Step two is the part I am hung up on. This is my routine: every night, I spend about fifteen minutes attempting to manipulate the static in the dark right before I go to bed. Then, I wake up at around three and try again for another few minutes (for some reason I have a bit more success if I wake up in the middle of the night and try). I haven't been quite as successful as I would like at this step. This part is difficult to explain. I try to envision shapes in the static, and 'force' the static to occupy the place where I am imagining the shape. Sometimes, this seems to work. For a moment, it seems like I really am seeing the shape I am imagining. But only for a moment. Then the shape disappears (actually, 'dissolves' would be more accurate) or it rotates/floats out of sight. Then I am left wondering if I actually saw anything, or if I was just imagining it. This is where my progress is stuck.

So...can you give me advice on where to go from here? I am bound and determined to figure this out one way or another, and would really appreciate any advice you can give.

Thank you in advance,
Someone

Hi there, I apologize for the delay. I have not been active on here in a long while.

Step 2 and further can be very difficult to explain. Most of it is very hard to put into words. Practice practice practice and more practice combined with trial and error seems to be key to progressing with this system. The images seem to be manipulated purely by will, and in time this becomes very easy to do. When I first started as a child I would practice nearly every night in bed before sleep. It was difficult for me to progress at first as well, but it was a sort of game to me. I tried to make it fun and interesting, which is why I was even able to practice so much.

It is a bit like moving your arm. If someone asks you to raise your arm, you simply do it without having to focus much on it. You will your arm to move and it does so. Likewise, this is like building up a muscle you didn't know you had.. which can be very difficult. Like wiggling your ear for example, if you cant wiggle it at all, things will be difficult at first until you can figure out exactly how to make your brain reach those muscles. Once you get a little bit of movement however and can access those muscles however weak, you may exercise those muscles in order to make them grow.

Focus your practice on things you CAN do, regardless of how difficult, until it becomes a part of you. Then expand on increasing what you are capable of. In your case I would recommend focusing on forming and then holding various images. If simple shapes are easier start there, if more complex images are easier than start there. Any way you can find to access those "muscles". Find something that works and then expand on it before moving on to more difficult areas.

I hope this helps you some.

**MrAccident** · 11-21-2013 03:29 PM

Hi Mylynes, good to see you here. Hope everything is fine with you.
It was pretty surreal to read the message from "someone". I kept wondering if I haven't wrote it. It sounded just like me; which is pretty damn rare. I actually had to check if it wasn't my message. :-D
Who ever it is - I think we would have some things to talk about; so feel free to PM me.

**Mylynes** · 11-21-2013 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by MrAccident

Hi Mylynes, good to see you here. Hope everything is fine with you.
It was pretty surreal to read the message from "someone". I kept wondering if I haven't wrote it. It sounded just like me; which is pretty damn rare. I actually had to check if it wasn't my message. :-D
Who ever it is - I think we would have some things to talk about; so feel free to PM me.

I changed the name simply to avoid waiting on permission to post the pm here. I usually don't like to use content from other people without asking for permission, specially in cases where someone sends me a private message.

And yes, I have been through a lot since I was last active here, and made a lot of progress with honing my abilities, everything is fine with me.

**MrAccident** · 11-21-2013 08:17 PM

It is more blessed to ask forgiveness than permission.
But is it someone who reads this thread?

**Baron Samedi** · 11-24-2013 09:54 AM

This is what annoys me, when I was a kid, I would make shapes and things with the colored blobs behind my eyelids, and I used to see fractal witches, and really crazy shit, super vivid, like hallucinations, I guess. I got scared, because I couldn't control it, and all I could do was turn it off. I wish I could turn it back on again. I totally forgot about it until just now.

**Mylynes** · 11-24-2013 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

This is what annoys me, when I was a kid, I would make shapes and things with the colored blobs behind my eyelids, and I used to see fractal witches, and really crazy shit, super vivid, like hallucinations, I guess. I got scared, because I couldn't control it, and all I could do was turn it off. I wish I could turn it back on again. I totally forgot about it until just now.

This actually seems to be a common thing. I've not talked to very many people about this, but the ones I have spoken to often report that they were able to see the "canvas" or something similar as a child. I think that most people simply learn to tone it out naturally, or grow out of it over time.

If you turn on a tv, you will hear a strange high-pitch static-like noise which is most noticeable on older tvs and when you first turn them on. That noise used to drive me crazy because I tend to pay attention to details like that whether I want to or not. Even after the tv is done starting and your show comes on, this sound can still be heard in the background. Most people I have spoken with seem to not notice this at all. You get used to hearing it in the background and your mind simply tunes it out in time as unimportant.

On another note, as an expansion on the original tutorial, try manipulating your perception of sound. Many people do this all the time without realizing exactly what they are doing. Ever had a song get "stuck" in your head? Congrats! You can perceive sounds within your mind despite them not actually existing irl as sound waves. Many people also report having an inner dialog with themselves. Used in combination with your other senses this can help you to make both your dreams and "daydreams" that much more immersive. Try adding in smells as well. As far as touch goes, try adding different textures to your environments. Next time you are dreaming, try touching things and see what they feel like, try feeling the carpet or sand or mud you are walking on ect. Experiment with taste as well. Eat a banana or something and see what it tastes like. Try to make the banana taste like something else such as an orange or even pizza. lol

**Baron Samedi** · 11-28-2013 03:24 AM

So, I had some success with this technique last night. I was finally able to focus on something with my eyes closed, a black circle. I made it change color slightly to dark red and dark green, then a square shape, then I lost control. I was doing it standing up while my wife was giving me a massage, then I suddenly felt dizzy. Not sure if doing this visualization was a factor or not.

I remember as a kid, even as a teenager, seeing dark blue, red, and green blobs when I closed my eyes, then I read this book, "How to See Better Without Glasses," which said that people with perfect sight usually see total black when they close their eyes, so I practiced doing that, and I was able to see total black all the time, but it didn't help me see any better. I just remembered this.

I also remember being told that I'm a weirdo by other kids for seeing colors when I close my eyes when I was little.

**phasemancer** · 11-29-2013 01:41 AM

Some activity in this thread again

I'm still practicing a bit on and off, with some success, though progress is quite slow. I'm guessing what I need to increase the amount of pixels and stuff is to get in a more meditative state/more theta waves.

Since last time I posted I did manage to make this stuff work very well once, by cheating a bit. I tried practicing this after taking LSD, and suddenly all those subtle things which are so difficult to notice and manipulate became very clear and it was quite similar to a lucid dream, except more lucid. I had tried LSD before, but didn't then have hallucinations of objects, just geometric patterns, and certainly not controllable hallucinations, but after many months practicing this technique, even with my rather limited success, I was on LSD able to create dinosaurs, UFOs and Super Mario with my mind and move them around as I wanted. It was totally surreal, maybe the weirdest experience of my life, I tried creating a tyrannosaurus rex, and managed to get what really looked like a tyrannosaurus rex standing right in front of me.

I'm still far from being able to create hallucinations of real objects when not on LSD yet, but it did help me improve a bit, as I noticed things that was very easy to notice on LSD, but very difficult to notice otherwise, that kinda helped know more what the right feeling should be when it's moving in the right direction. I haven't really practiced much the past few months though, but I'm at a stage now where I can see some patterns with my eyes open and then morph them a bit. I think the reason why it worked while on LSD is that it brings a meditative theta state, needed for hallucinations, that most people otherwise have to practice a lot to reach. Not suggesting anyone should try with LSD though, it's not for everyone.

**phasemancer** · 11-29-2013 03:29 PM

One thing that I've found is that staring at certain types of textures, without moving my eyes and blinking as little as I can, seems to make the texture amenable to change more into what I think I see, or what I think about, rather than what I see. Tree bark is one example. Even just staring at this image on my computer works, although it may work better with a real 3d object than just an image http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._guatemala.JPG

Mylynes, does the technique work best for you if you don't move your eyes, or did it use to until you became better at it?

**StephL** · 11-29-2013 03:35 PM

Very interesting.
By the way - pressing on your eyeballs will give a "wrong but strong" stimulus - there is a term in German - too lazy now to look it up.
Basically - the receptors for light get activated by the pressure directly - so it is "real seeing" what you get.
It is known, that our brain "censors" vision anyway.
For example - the blood vessels for your retina are actually between the light-influx per pupil and the actual receptors for anatomical reasons.
What this means, is that you have a constant shadow over your vision, where these vessels are covering up.
Now - usually you have two eyes open - so the real info is available to you - per computation of the differences of light detection.
The blanks get filled in by real light from the other eye.
But if you close one - you still do not see this "spider" of vessels. This time it is pure filling in of blanks from your brain.
Basically - a hallucination.
You can show this very nicely - and I have had this experience - when somebody looks at your background of the eye with a looking device, which sends out a lot of light, besides optical arrangements for the physician to see something.

Now comes the interesting part - once somebody only just learns this, she will not be good at only going through the pupil with her light.
Then this light does also shine through your iris - and - tata - you suddenly see these vessels - like a projection - hanging a bit of a distance outside of you.
This is what you always see - just the shadow now is not where it always is - the light falls in in an unusual angle - this is new - and there you have it - you see it.

There are many such mechanisms in place - to help us along, so to speak.
But they also can be manipulated consciously to a certain degree.
So - voluntary day-time-hallucinations should be possible, purely scientifically speaking.

But I wonder - are you always sure what is what?
Do you have a "only pure reality NOW" switch, or is there a sort of a constant incertitude about what you perceive, and it´s actual physical correlates?

Funny by the way - I did practise that as a child - almost like you say - starting in the dark and with pressing my eyes sometimes, too.
And yes - in semi-dark rooms, I was able to concentrate so much, that I could get to see something.
But not in broad daylight.
What I remember was a wolf and a wild pig - why ever I did these - don´t know (technically illusions not hallucinations*).
But I got pretty afraid of really having created that wolf and it showing up against my will. But it didn´t.
Sounds like a good method to get dream-control and per the senses.

But a bit too extreme maybe.
I imagine such an ability might bother me with too much sliding and slipping of the borders of imagination and reality.
Rather staying with visualization for now.
Were you regretting to be proficient in this from time to time, Mylynes?

*
By the way - maybe this interests someone - terminology:
A hallucination is something created/perceived "in thin air" - like a dragon appearing in the air above you with no planes in the sky or the like, while an illusion is defined as perceiving something real - like a stool - but transforming it in your mind into a small dragon for example, which may get bigger and fly - what it is called then - don´t know - maybe transformation from illusion to hallucination..?
Illusions being "easier" of course - or more common, when you read about people´s experiences with hallucinogens - you find descriptions of illusions which are incorrectly termed hallucinations in common language.

Oh yeah - and edit - when describing this "vision" of my own eye background vessels to a professor of ophthalmology - he got really excited and explained all this to us - finding the topic fascinating himself.
We had thought, that I had seen her´s - by some two way functioning of the device.

**user5659** · 11-29-2013 04:11 PM

To me it looks like nREM WILD. I did not try to do it during day time, while I am awake. But I did it just before nap, on the beach and just before first main sleep.

Here is how it feels to me http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...ml#post2047410

**Baron Samedi** · 11-29-2013 04:19 PM

I have seen the blood vessels in my eyes when I hit my head on a concrete ceiling jumping down some stairs, just for a split second. That was weird. It was like kind of watery-looking clear shapes of my blood vessels as soon as I hit my head.

***

On another note, I have been practicing this technique more. I have been able to see a type of grid with my eyes open that I see sometimes, and usually make go away because it used to make me feel like I was crazy. It's more like an overlay which may or may not be a grid. The last time the overlay was kind of red and amorphous. I hope to turn this into a Heads Up Display in my waking life eventually.
I have been having a hard time trying to relax and practice because my cat keeps walking on me when I lie down.

**user5659** · 11-29-2013 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I have seen the blood vessels in my eyes when I hit my head on a concrete ceiling jumping down some stairs, just for a split second. That was weird. It was like kind of watery-looking clear shapes of my blood vessels as soon as I hit my head.

***

On another note, I have been practicing this technique more. I have been able to see a type of grid with my eyes open that I see sometimes, and usually make go away because it used to make me feel like I was crazy. It's more like an overlay which may or may not be a grid. The last time the overlay was kind of red and amorphous. I hope to turn this into a Heads Up Display in my waking life eventually.
I have been having a hard time trying to relax and practice because my cat keeps walking on me when I lie down.

When you DEILD or simply stay between dreaming and awake, do you often see your real life place where you are falling asleep mixed with dream?

I thought I am going crazy last time I saw it. I often had some transparent objects flying around my room when I just woke up. But recently I had one dream where it was going romantic with some teacher, she was young and beautiful. I was talking to her in her class and then suddenly she transformed to a big leopard. I got shocked, woke up and that leopard was sitting in my room, he was very big. Like 3 meters tall, he was sitting here for around 5 minutes, just sitting and staring at me. That time I thought I am going crazy.
It was not SP because I could move.

And another question, did you try to do it after sleep deprivation? Like 48+ hours.

I often stayed sleep deprived due to my life style when I was 18-20 and couple of times when I did not sleep like 56 hours or more I had lots of hallucinations. Often it was my dream mixed with my waking life. I think hallucinations like schizophrenia might be just dream mixed into our waking life. By dream I am talking about our subconscious mind.

Once when I was sleep sleep deprived for more then 56 hours I was on my way home, sitting in the tram. I was observing my self with from a floating 3rd person view camera somewhere on top. I could see both, my real view and this camera view. Like mixed layers. Also when I was walking back to my apartment I could see dogs that were not real, I knew because they were kinda of fucked up, my friend confirmed that those dogs were not real. Also he had other hallucinations, he was doing LDing as well and he was not sleep with me all that time.

I am saying my dream because at that time I was pretty experienced lucid dreamer and I could control those hallucinations exactly the same way I control my dreams.

**phasemancer** · 11-29-2013 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by StephL

But I wonder - are you always sure what is what?
Do you have a "only pure reality NOW" switch, or is there a sort of a constant incertitude about what you perceive, and it´s actual physical correlates?

Actually what we "see" is never an exact representation of the physical correlates. Our eyes are like cameras sending 2D images to the visual cortex where they split into parts like lines and circles, then goes through a kind of rendering pipeline, a bit like how a computer game is rendered, that constructs a 3D image, part of this process is pattern recognition, which includes comparing the seen patterns to memories of already seen objects, this not only makes you recognize objects, but is helps determine how the constructed 3D image that the your consciousness perceives should be like, based on your memories and experiences. The more ambiguous something you see is, or the less data the input contains, the more prone you are to the brain filling in more details with what whatever the pattern recognition systems thinks stuff should be, I think that consciously thinking about objects might be able to skew the pattern recognition process towards whatever object(s) you're thinking about.

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