Expierenced LDers only! Very expierenced!

I have two seperate questions.

1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.
2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

My level on control depends on how early/late it is in the night, and how vivid the dream is. It's usually pretty easy for me to manipulate lucid dreams. I think of it, and it happens, but I'm used to lucid dreams, so I often choose to go with the dream, as long as it's pleasant. :)

No one taught me how to lucid dream. I just do it, resulting in most of my dreams being lucid. So I don't lucid dream "on will", but I see this as a gift I'm very grateful for.

I wake up after almost all REM cycles, as far as I know, which means about 4 times a night for me.

Also, I believe that my sleep quality would be just as good without lucid dreams. :)

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Originally Posted by elite0007

I have two seperate questions.

1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.

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As far as I know, you can enter lucidity anytime you are dreaming. Since we have (on average) 4 dreams per night - that can be 4 DILDs.

As far as the level of control, I have never been able to just blink and change scenes. I usually just create a portal to the place I want to go and step through. Or find a doorway and imagine that my destination lies on the other side.

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2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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I don't think being just being lucid affects your quality of sleep. However, I tend to wake up after each LD (the ones I remember anyway) and that seems to affect my quality of sleep, just as if I was being awoken by other disturbances multiple times during the night. To be honest though, waking up after a lucid ends is a GOOD thing, because it allows you to attempt to re-enter.

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1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.

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Out of interest, why are you not interested in the control of anyone other than "very experienced" LDers? There are experienced LDers who can barely control anything, and there are those that have only had a handful of dreams (such as myself) who can control pretty much anything.

That's a good point. I guess through all the reading and research I've done; for the most part inexpierenced LDers have alot of complications such as dream recall, being able to become lucid, and most of all dream control. Alot of people put such emphasis on practicing that I asummed only expierenced LDers would be able to bring knowledge to this topic. I do understand that some people are gifted but I think for the most part most people have to diligently work at it. I am very interested in the level of control that you have over your dream. Do you care to share.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

I have two seperate questions.

1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.

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As far as I know I have complete control. As to entering lucidity at any point I have no idea. Lucidity has come so frequently on its own that I never felt the need to try.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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I still wake up frequently through the night, but I have always been very proficient in LD. I don't have much to go on because I have been LDing for around 9 years now. I don't really remember my quality of sleep from when I was 5.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice.

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Firstly its very possible to change the dream scene at will, possible obviously doesnt mean its easy. Much like riding a bike seems very hard at first but becomes very easy with practice, ive found myself learning to accomplish different feats while lucid. These abilities continue to improve in subsequent dreams so continuing to practice continues to improve your mental/dream skills.
At first flying was almost impossible for me, now i can fly easily. Same with walking through walls which at first was a struggle but now isnt so hard. Its strange but i find i reach a particular level of skill and i just know i can do it, i dont think about trying to fly anymore, i just fly knowing full well i can. And this seems to carry over into different skills, i definitely think theres a mind frame to adopt that allows much more control in dreams. As an example in one particular lucid i found myself in a overcrowded mall, I was passed playing with dream characters, i wanted more out of the dream, and so i made everyone dissapear, the entire mall was instantly empty. The easiest way to describe the mindframe is when you need to accomplish a task, just blank your mind and do whatever you need to do, just do it heh, no questions.

I havn't had as much practice changing dream scenes, im usually pretty content to explore the setting im in. Ive been able to do it a few times with portals, doors and covering my eyes and im getting better at it but i still have a way to go. I currently rarely end up where I expected when changing dream scene e.g. i want a bright vivid tropical island but instead get a rainy beach in scotland :).
Dream scene changing is something im going to look into much more, i have a number of things ive always wanted to experience in an LD such as the huge battles in LOTR for example.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.

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I can't lucid dream at will, but i know what laberge means, at the point when you're just about to gain lucidity there seems to be a pre-lucid stage where we can choose to continue the dream as normal or accept lucidity, at least this is how it is for me (not everytime). If laberge gets this pre-lucid state each dream he could choose whether to lucid dream or stay in the dream unconciously every dream (im aware choosing is a form of lucid control too but im trying to avoid the philosophy behind it).

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Originally Posted by elite0007

2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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I always wake myself up at the end of a lucid in order to write it down. Im not sure on the quality of sleep question, sometimes i feel tired after waking up early or during the night to write dreams down, othertimes i feel much more awake.

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1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.

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When I am lucid I can do abolutely anything, it is like being God. There are no limitations if you have enough faith in your dream control. I cannot 100% enter a lucid dream. My accuracy is about 60%, I have about 3 lucids a week.

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2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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You are wrong, LD does not require any effort at all. I have been having LDs all my life without trying.
Dream journals do not affect quality of sleep either, you just write something down and go back to sleep.
About waking up: if you tell yourself you want to wake up then you probably will.
The quality of sleep is not affected much.

I just have to say I dont understand why I am reading so much about lucid dreaming = lack of sleep.

Lucid dreams have nothing to do with how often you wake up in the night. A vivid non-lucid dream has just as much chance as waking you up. Also, if you are waking yourself up to jot down the lucid dream after it has happened, then I don't understand this either.

A lucid is lucid because you are aware - you are 'awake' in the dream. Sure, people can barely remember what they had for dinner yesterday, but I certainly hope you can remember what you ate just a few hours ago. Lucid dreams shouldn't be any different. You should be able to remember all of your lucid dreams in the morning. Since when you are aware, you remember. If you can't remember your lucid dreams, are you sure you were lucid?

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That's a good point. I guess through all the reading and research I've done; for the most part inexpierenced LDers have alot of complications such as dream recall, being able to become lucid, and most of all dream control. Alot of people put such emphasis on practicing that I asummed only expierenced LDers would be able to bring knowledge to this topic. I do understand that some people are gifted but I think for the most part most people have to diligently work at it. I am very interested in the level of control that you have over your dream. Do you care to share.

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I suppose it's an understandable misconception; I think for the most part people needing to work at control is because they don't fully understand what's going on, combined with a lack of confidence.

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1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.

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I haven't had the chance to change the scene at will; the amount of time I've had whilst lucid has been the limiting factor sadly. I have however managed to sucessfully perform many of the advanced things I have tried, in most cases first time.

As an example, the first time I tried to fly in my 2nd lucid dream, I effortlessly managed it, and was able to fly extremely high at an astonishing speed. An amazing sensation, to say the least. I've been able to use many different powers, all perfectly. Flight, electrokinesis, pyrokinesis, telekinesis, phasing through walls ... the list will likely grow much bigger as I have more dreams.

However, when changing the dream world itself, instead of my own personal abilities, for instance, creating items out of nothing, I tend to find that more focus is required. For instance, when I created a parachute, it had no pull to open it initially, and when creating a tuxedo, the material texture was not initially how I wanted it.

Based on what I've done so far, it seems that providing I can focus enough, I can do more or less whatever I want.

However at the moment, I cannot have lucid dreams at will.

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2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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I've been waking up a few times a night, usually after a sleep cycle, but this hasn't affected the quality of my sleep. Personally, the time at which I go to sleep seems to determine the quality. For instance going to bed at 11PM means I wake up at 7AM fresh and relaxed, whereas if I go to bed at 4PM, I can wake up at 2PM, extremely tired, even with more sleep!

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Originally Posted by Amelaclya

As far as I know, you can enter lucidity anytime you are dreaming. Since we have (on average) 4 dreams per night - that can be 4 DILDS

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Wow, we only have 4 dreams? What goes on when we are not dreaming?

/CDR

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Originally Posted by juroara

I just have to say I dont understand why I am reading so much about lucid dreaming = lack of sleep.

Lucid dreams have nothing to do with how often you wake up in the night. A vivid non-lucid dream has just as much chance as waking you up. Also, if you are waking yourself up to jot down the lucid dream after it has happened, then I don't understand this either.

A lucid is lucid because you are aware - you are 'awake' in the dream. Sure, people can barely remember what they had for dinner yesterday, but I certainly hope you can remember what you ate just a few hours ago. Lucid dreams shouldn't be any different. You should be able to remember all of your lucid dreams in the morning. Since when you are aware, you remember. If you can't remember your lucid dreams, are you sure you were lucid?

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Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others. I sleep through the whole night most times when I don't have LDs - especially when I wasn't trying. And still remember 2-3 dreams. I do wake up after particularly emotion-provoking dreams though, like nightmares.

I believe since in LDs you are there consciously, there is more emotion involved - causing you to wake up. Why do you think people have problems staying in the dream once they realize they are dreaming? They get excited.

Anyway, I ALWAYS wake up after a lucid. Or else I don't remember them, which would be very odd since I have very good dream recall ;)

This can get very disturbing since I often can't resist using DEILDs a few times after each lucid.

I'm not saying it is a terribly bad thing. I'd rather wake up after a LD and have the chance for reentry than to continue with sleeping till morning and not have that opportunity.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

I have two seperate questions.

1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.

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:lol: At the use of the word experience used so much.

To answer your questions...

Yes, anything can happen anytime. You can change a scene or any single thing or anything at all. You can make things appear, disappear, anything in between, do crazy things to them, do crazy things with yourself. Literally anything that you can imagine. It sounds corny, but your mind really is your only limitation. If you end up getting doubts, then you could fail at something, but that's it. Take my advice and the advice of many and don't take very much at all for truth that you read. The main problem that people experience is whenever they create limitations for themselves because they read something online about LDing being hard or flying being hard or sex causing you to wake up or dreams fade a lot. If you read those and actually take them for word, then they will of course happen. If it is created by your mind and your mind thinks that flying is impossible, then it will be impossible to fly. Never doubt yourself and do things in a semi-objective point of view. Nothing is out of reach if will reach for it.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

2. I know that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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It doesn't really inhibit your sleep very much unless you do certain methods that cause you to wake up. If you WBTB, you'll have to wake up once during the night and stay awake for a bit. WILD is the same, but you may want to stay up as long as an hour if you want to, and it can take a while to do the method. MILD is where you wake up many times through the night to record dreams and try to incubate the next dream.

Those don't really even mess up your sleep too bad unless you're on a strict schedule. Then I would only really worry about WILDing. You can still DILD though, just by keeping a dream journal, practicing the use of RCs, and getting to know your dreams and dreamsigns. Whether you're a beginner or an expert, all of the different methods of induction still require the same things. So you would still wake up for WILD, MILD, and WBTB. While there are others, those are the main methods or categories that require waking up. While it may be easier for an expert LDer to gain lucidity, the methods are the same.

Lucid sleep usually helps sleep a lot! After a good lucid, I'll always wake up refreshed and excited, which carries over towards the rest of the day. It's a great way to start a morning, and it doesn't degenerate your sleep's proficiency on health and revitalization.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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If I recall correctly, from LaBerge's studies, it is virtually impossible to remember a dream if we don't wake up after them. It is possible that remember many dreams when you wake up in the morning, but don't remember waking up in the middle of the night. That is because you woke up for a couple of seconds, but went right back to sleep. Just like when someone turns the alarm off without realizing it and then wonders why the alarm "didn't work" when they wake up late for work. :P

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Originally Posted by CDR

Wow, we only have 4 dreams? What goes on when we are not dreaming?

/CDR

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This goes on when we're not dreaming:
http://hil4ry.files.wordpress.com/20...p_cycle-01.jpg

Ok, I have the answer I was looking for on one of the questions but am failing to get the other fully answered. Let me explain my self a little more.

This is in reference to the quality of sleep. Set aside variables of the different types of LDing and dream journals and all that. Lets us a hypothetical example for the control. Keep in mind I need you to focus on the important part of this, nothing else. Lets say I have been LDing for a while now (Not that has any difference) and I can regularly LD once a night. Does the fact that your brain is in a state of consiousness mean that you are not getting the same quality of sleep as if your brain was unconsious. Its a general understanding that you go to bed to rest your consious mind. Not consiously dream. Does the fact that you are using your brain when you other wise wouldn't be if you wern't LDing have any effect on the quality of sleep you get.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

I have two seperate questions.

1. I am interested in the level of control an expierenced LDer has over his/her dream. When posting please be very expierenced and give descriptive accounts of the expierience. Can you simply change the seen at will. Can you make anything happen at a moments notice. Additionally, are you able to enter lucidity at will anytime during sleep. I know that Stephen LaBerge could lucid dream at will 3 and 4 times a night.
2. I now that when you first start out. LD requires diligent effort and can affect the quality of sleep due to dream journals. After one has become very proficient in LD, do you still wake up mulitiple times during the night or can you simply sleep all the way through. Also, does the fact that your consious keep you from having the same quality of sleep as when your not consious.

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Ok, I have the answer I was looking for on one of the questions but am failing to get the other fully answered. Let me explain my self a little more.

This is in reference to the quality of sleep. Set aside variables of the different types of LDing and dream journals and all that. Lets us a hypothetical example for the control. Keep in mind I need you to focus on the important part of this, nothing else. Lets say I have been LDing for a while now (Not that has any difference) and I can regularly LD once a night. Does the fact that your brain is in a state of consiousness mean that you are not getting the same quality of sleep as if your brain was unconsious. Its a general understanding that you go to bed to rest your consious mind. Not consiously dream. Does the fact that you are using your brain when you other wise wouldn't be if you wern't LDing have any effect on the quality of sleep you get.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

Does the fact that your brain is in a state of consiousness mean that you are not getting the same quality of sleep as if your brain was unconsious. Its a general understanding that you go to bed to rest your consious mind. Not consiously dream. Does the fact that you are using your brain when you other wise wouldn't be if you wern't LDing have any effect on the quality of sleep you get.

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I am not an expert on sleep, however, in my own experience I feel more rested after a night spent lucid dreaming than a night of usual dreams. Perhaps I am more likely to lucid dream when I'm getting high quality sleep? I don't know. But for me lucid dreams = a good night's sleep.

I wake up after every dream cycle. To keep sleep-disruption to a minimum I have a note pad next to my pillow. I don't even open my eyes. I just write a few words about the dream I just had in order to help me remember the dream in the morning (or later) when I sit down to write in my actual dream journal. For example I may write, "In high school w/ Karen. Weird stuff on board. Angry. LD." That little bit tells me, where, with whom, what was going on, how I felt, and that the dream was lucid. For me, that is enough for me to be able to remember the dream later when I'm up for the day. Sometimes I don't write any dream notes until I get up for the day. Usually I do this if I'm especially sleepy, if I had no LDs, or just don't feel like taking notes. Generally I spend only a few seconds jotting down notes during the night. So, I don't feel that doing this has any major impact on how much sleep I get.

That said, I do sleep a lot more than most people. I have some health issues that cause me to sleep 10-14 hours a day. So I get to have a lot more dreams per night than most people, too. If I'm really good about making notes for every dream I have 6-8 dreams per night. However, I usually only take notes on half of them.

When it comes to dream control I vary. Often the level of lucidity dictates how much control I'll have. I've been LDing since childhood, so I'm not as driven for amazing dream adventures as some LDers. Most of the time I just go with whatever the dream is doing, as long as it is pleasant. If I have a dream that is trying to turn into a nightmare I'm usually pretty quick to remove the source of the trouble. But often I'll just ride those out, too without getting scared. Just sitting down and waiting for the tornado to get you is its own kind of power. Other times I'll go all superhero with the dream powers.

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Originally Posted by elite0007

Lets say I have been LDing for a while now (Not that has any difference) and I can regularly LD once a night. Does the fact that your brain is in a state of consiousness mean that you are not getting the same quality of sleep as if your brain was unconsious.

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This clears up your question, and the answer to it is absolutely not (i.e. You still get your normal rest if you have had a lucid dream that night, or even every night for that matter).

To the contrary, many people claim to wake up even more invigorated and well-rested after having a lucid dream and remembering it. It can feel like a flash of energy when you wake up from a lucid dream.

The reason that you do not get tired from the sole fact that you are having lucid dreams every night is as follow: You have dreams every night, whether you remember them or not, you still have them. Whether they are lucid or not, you still have dreams every night. It's part of the sleep cycle. Being aware while you are in your dream does not get in the way of your sleep cycle and it (by itself) does not make you tired.

What can make you feel tired is what others have previously mentioned - not getting enough sleep because you're doing different techniques to achieve a lucid dream (e.g WBTB, dream journal, WILD, etc.)

I hope this clears up. :D