Dream Ethics

Last night in my lucid dream I had a "dream guide" for the first time. He was totally faceless, maybe bodiless, but he was my mentor. Somehow I knew that if I was doing something in my dream that was bad my mind would turn the dream against me. Which it did.
I was sitting in a car, my dream guide was driving, when I realized I was dreaming. I looked at the clock a couple times to double check. I got out of the car and realized it was totally cool to be in a lucid dream again, but I was not as lucid as I usually am. These two girls then waltz out of the house we're parked in from of and I start making fun of them (losing lucidity at this point) when I start to actually feel bad for them! Later after a scalding from my dream grandmother, my dream guide and I drive into a city. It was night time in the city, but well lit and the streets made no sense, cars driving in completely random directions. The streets are rather packed and I start to wonder how I could be imagining so many faces I've never seen before. My dream guide then tells me that all the people there driving around are victims of car accidents. I start to consider making a joke about people at bus stops when I sort of remember that I can do whatever I want in my dream, flying, screwing, etc. Then this car blows by me and there is this bloody, mangled woman in the car. At this point I realize that whenever I am immoral in my dream it turns sour, like the feeling of a nightmare in a lucid dream. The dream continued on after that, but mostly I lost my lucidity.

I realize that even in my sleep I have a conscience and that for all I know I could be sharing the dream (not that I really even believe that it's possible). If the dream holds other minds I need to watch myself, and even if I am just alone in there, because karma acts instantly in my dreams.

Anybody else have a problem feeling bad in dreams or having lucid dreams turn into nightmares?

im always nice to DC's because even though I know they are not real i still dont want to hurt them or anything. Dunno what gives me this feeling but i always generally like to keep on the safe side

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Originally Posted by jamous

Somehow I knew that if I was doing something in my dream that was bad my mind would turn the dream against me.

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Well, there's your problem. Whatever you expect to happen, will happen. If you don't like this, simply expect the dream to not care about your ethics, and it won't. It's your dream, you can make it do what you want. Never let yourself be convinced that the dream is beyond your control - because then it WILL be.

well said

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Originally Posted by Thatperson

im always nice to DC's because even though I know they are not real i still dont want to hurt them or anything. Dunno what gives me this feeling but i always generally like to keep on the safe side

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I'm alway nice to my DC's (Unless I've made up some bad guys) cause they are a part of myself.

I have actually never met my SG ;) (Spiritual Guide)

i believe i did last night

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Originally Posted by thegnome54

Well, there's your problem. Whatever you expect to happen, will happen. If you don't like this, simply expect the dream to not care about your ethics, and it won't. It's your dream, you can make it do what you want. Never let yourself be convinced that the dream is beyond your control - because then it WILL be.

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That's obvious. In my case it's more of a spiritual thing. It sounds dumb but I believe it is possible that some of the characters in my dreams are real entities. I don't really believe that, but just in case...
It's also like someone said, it's me, and I feel better if I'm moral even in my head.

it's probably just my recent constant worry of being over-indulgent and therefor sort of sinful or something in that I'm mistreating my life.

I dunno, I'm mostly just too paranoid, haha, even in my dreams

I have always been respectful of DCs, but in a dream a while ago, someone who said they were my dreamguide killed a DC and then brought him back to life, saying that I had to understand that they weren't real.

your lucid dreams are part of your conscious mind, so being a jerk in the dream may affect your behavior in real life. If you have to make fun of somebody in your dream, make it somebody you really hate

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Originally Posted by AbyssNess

I have always been respectful of DCs, but in a dream a while ago, someone who said they were my dreamguide killed a DC and then brought him back to life, saying that I had to understand that they weren't real.

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God, these dream guides fascinate me. Did you ask it if that meant that it wasn't real either, and you were really all alone?

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Originally Posted by musicman

your lucid dreams are part of your conscious mind, so being a jerk in the dream may affect your behavior in real life. If you have to make fun of somebody in your dream, make it somebody you really hate

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I disagree. I think as long as someone has a firm handle on the difference between dreams and reality, your actions in one won't spill over into the other, at least not unknowingly.

Although I personally don't agree with it, I understand the argument that acting immorally in dreams is "sinful" and shouldn't be done, just as you wouldn't do it in real life. If you're going in with that expectation, ESPECIALLY if you're religious, I totally understand your brain punishing you for it right away.

And if you believe in dream sharing and crapstuff like that, then yeah, acting immorally in dreams is just as bad as in real life.

i didn't mean you being sinful in a dream WOULD affect you in real life, I'm just saying it could happen if you take lucid dreaming too far

That idea of people in dreams driving cars are victims of accidents should go in a movie.

As one example, if you kill someone in a dream for enjoyment it is just as bad as killing someone in real life. Not because the individual that you killed felt anything, but because if your getting a jolly out of the idea of inflicting pain on someone that is just, well sad really. However, I would much prefer you do stuff in a dream than in waking life.

Anyway, the way I think about is if something out of your control happens to someone in a dream well, oh well. In the real world if someone you knew got killed or murdered it would be sad. But in a dream, you might as well not worry about it, they were going to die the next time you stopped thinking about them, or when you woke up anyway.

You are your own moral compass though. Its sad but good and bad are really just words. If someone doesn't feel empathy I feel sad for them. I find that in waking life it makes me far more happy to see people I love happy about things in their life, than it does for things in my life to make me happy.

What is the saying...hear no evil, see no evil speak no evil...or something.

=D a more interesting question might be, if you do something immoral to a charector in a dream, is it possible they will come back in another dream to make you regret it X.X

Sandform said:

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As one example, if you kill someone in a dream for enjoyment it is just as bad as killing someone in real life. Not because the individual that you killed felt anything, but because if your getting a jolly out of the idea of inflicting pain on someone that is just, well sad really. However, I would much prefer you do stuff in a dream than in waking life.

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I understand precisely what you mean sandform, but I beg to differ strongly. Really this is a matter of opinion. I can entirely understand why you believe that, as the action is still the same. Dreams are so real that killing someone in them would be just like killing them in the waking world, and just as wrong.

However, do not forget the concept of what a lucid dream is. You are not only conscious within the dreamstate, you also have a full understanding that nothing you are experiencing is real on a physical level. Of course it is real to the extent that you are actually experiencing it, but the things happening are only happening for you. Therefore ethics, morals and sin are defined differently, if not nonexistant.

The latter of which is a matter of personal opinion. I, being a relatively sentimental/sensitive person, have not yet been able to bring myself to harm one of my DCs, because I see them as a beautiful creation that I'd be destroying. I can't bring myself to do it. But at least in my opinion it is no where NEAR the magnitude of killing someone in person, because no one is actually harmed. You kill a DC, thus your mind makes a scenario, drawing from schemata that show you what you know to be death. No families are affected. No one actually died.

In a dream, you're just going through the motion. In my opinion it's a good way to get things out of your system that you know you'd never ever do, but have always wondered what it would be like. I wondered what it would be like to be the bad guy. A criminal of sorts. Pissing off cops, robbing people, abusing "living" things, etc (the latter of which I'd never even consider).

And if someone comes back in a future dream to make me regret it, I'll turn them into a newt! (a newt?) :D

-monty python

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Originally Posted by Rainman

Sandform said:


I understand precisely what you mean sandform, but I beg to differ strongly. Really this is a matter of opinion. I can entirely understand why you believe that, as the action is still the same. Dreams are so real that killing someone in them would be just like killing them in the waking world, and just as wrong.

-monty python

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I actually agree with you lol.

"You are your own moral compass though. Its sad but good and bad are really just words."
and
"hear no evil, see no evil speak no evil."

Although I can see how my own contradiction of my post was wierd.
I came up with the perfect way to deal with dream ethics!!!

If it feels like your doing something wrong don't do it!!!:banana:

Similiar to, 'if it feels good, do it.' kindof view.

Well I guess that works lol. I suppose I misunderstood your post...it indeed was rather self-contradicting...but that's ok! ...note to self...do not converse with schizophrenics...

joking mate ;) hahaha
I guess i've got a pretty lame sense of humour in that respect

Lol

Yeah...that feeling of 'this wouldnt be right' sometimes enters in to the LD scheme.
"Am I sharing this dream with someone?" I have asked my LD self.
"What are they thinking about all this" is another.
I still find myself dealing with this LD issue jamous.

I like to hurt and maim DC's for little reason, I never really thought of it as immoral or wrong. =x

Maybe my ethics are just a little screwy.

I don't like to hurt DCs, like I don't hunt them down and kill them, but usually it's a 'me or them' type of situation. What am I supposed to do when a DC starts stabbing me repeatedly with a shard of glass? I don't neccesarily beleive it's wrong, however. I think right or wrong depends on the world and society we live in, and the dream world is like stepping into a new one of both...but you still have your concience from the original.

In conclusion, don't do it if it bothers you, (it bothers me) but if you do kill DCs I don't see it as wrong.