Blocks. And lucid dreaming in a normal dream?? Any help appreciated!

[TillyP]

Hello, i've just joined. Wondering whether anyone can realte or has any suggestions or comments on a couple of things? First is blocks. Unable to destine myself. Even though i'm lucid i can't always go through things and almost unconsciously put myself in situations where i have to, like in front of walls and windows. It's my ego that stops me, i think. I've got better and can occasionally get through something solid. What i've realised is that (the ol' matrix thing, 'there is no spoon' ) And say i'll think of the wall going through me, rather then me going though the wall (as 'there is no me') Or i'll look at a tree top and imagine the tree top coming to me, rather then me flying to the tree top. But it's a constant struggle, and kind of mirror my waking life so there is much to learn i guess. Any tips? The next is the last week or so, i've had dreams where i know i'm lucid but can't stop it being just a normal dream. For eg. Last night i was on a rollercoaster with an older woman i didn't know. I was lucid, told her this was a dream, but had no control. Or the other night, more profoundly, sitting with 2 girls (grown up versions of girls i know in waking life) and we were all trying to arrange to meet in a LD. I then 'woke up' in my dream, and realised that the girls could not do that as 'i was 'only dreaming' so our plans would not work. Then i woke up proper! So it's like a dream scape in a dream scape. Has anyone experienced this? It's not that i want to control more, it's the opposite - i want to be free! Thanks for reading. Tilly Pink

[Darkmatters]

It's not lucid dreaming in a normal dream - that doesn't really make any sense. You're talking mostly about control, which is not the same as lucidity. It's been said a thousand (million?) times, but Ill say it again - lucidity is just knowing you're dreaming while you're dreaming, Control is a separate thing, and you won't always have good control. The thing where you said you 'woke up in the dream' sounds like just a false awakening - not anything like a 'dream within a dream' (there is no such thing as dream within a dream - Inception is a fictional movie and they made up stuff that sounded cool). You can't expect to always be able to go through walls or stuff like that - sometimes you can sometimes you can't. That's more about control than lucidity though. If you're aware it's a dream then you're lucid.

[TillyP]

Hi there Darkmatters Do you not sometimes want to investigate why you sometimes can and why you sometimes can't? Mind travels with you through all things... In waking life you can have lives within lives...selves within selves...like a matrioska doll. It's a postmodern concept, but one i've found to be true. There can be no rules when there are no bounderies. And dreamscape has no bounderies. Inception? I wouldn't mind seeing that. Just looked it up. It says the guy who wrote was a lucid dreamer....hey maybe that was your tip of the day for me - thank you!! *Notes: must watch Inception

[Darkmatters]

Hi there Darkmatters Do you not sometimes want to investigate why you sometimes can and why you sometimes can't? Well of course - that's one of the reasons we're all here, isn't it? What gave you the impression I don't? I was just answering the post you made at the top, which didn't mention anything like exploring why we sometimes can and sometimes can't. And I'm not so sure the dreamscape has no boundaries. Especially when you're talking about something like a dream within a dream. But then, if you weren't referencing Inception, maybe you meant something different by that. However, what you described was actually just being lucid without having control. ** Edit Ok, I see you did say "Any tips?", so I guess you were asking for advice on how to gain better control - sorry, I misunderstood that. I just saw you using terminology wrong and was trying to be helpful by explaining the terminology we use here on the board - it's hard to communicate with people if everyone is using terms differently. But I see now that you posted this under Dream Control, so I guess you did realize it's dream control and not lucidity. Not sure why you still called it lucidity then. But I was trying to be helpful, honest!

[Sageous]

TillyP, if you believe you have "lives within lives...selves within selves" in the same manner you described in the dream above, well, then, I suppose the same could happen to you in a dream. I imagine your waking life would be incredibly confusing, though, if not downright debilitating. Though everything Darkmatters said is true for pretty much everyone, I suppose you might be the exception.

[TillyP]

Ah Ok right, no i was referring to my dream, not a movie. But then, life, is a movie. so then maybe are dreams. I picked up a dvd in the shop the other day and said to my mate 'this is based on a true story' - and he said 'we are all based on true stories' . Awesome! I thought. Looking around here, i think Inception has inspired a lot of people! Can understand why you make clear it's just a movie though, genuine. Nah, it's just this is a thread about control and stuff, it was a hypothetical question Yea my problem is, i'm too in control. Stupid ego following me into dreamscape. I want to learn how to really let go. Interesting isn't it. It makes sense to think that we need to control our lucidity in order to do as we please. But actually, in order to do as we please in LDing, we might need to let go of control. Hmm.

[Darkmatters]

You keep saying you want less control, but the problems you mentioned in your first post are all about trying to get more control. You also seem to be the kind of person who likes to play around with words so you can make it seem like the opposite of everything is true, which makes it difficult to communicate with you. Which is it? Do you want to gain more control in dreams ("Destine" yourself as you said)? Or learn to completely give up control and just follow the dream script?

[TillyP]

Thanks Darkmatters, that is actually very helpful. Genuine. Maybe it's the balance i need to find. How has it been for you?

[TillyP]

P.S. I play around with words i guess, not meaning to, because it's hard to talk about stuff that is orderless in any particular order!

[TillyP]

Hi Sageous, Yea it can be sometimes! But mostly it's OK! Thanks In life we have to learn to play all these different roles. So we bring out different traits in our personality to match these situations. Some people believe that we have a unique 'self'. I don't. But i have my unique truths. Dreamscape is a place where our ego is binned. But lucid dreaming is a place where you can work with ego. That big elephant in the room that calls itself ME. What i am trying to do at this point is to try to balance that thing called ME with the ethereal imaginative multi-self that couldn't give a flying pig poo whether it's me you or anybody else, just, like a small child, wants to explore this very exciting universe that exists inside and outside of us. Not much to ask really is is? haha! I am taking heed of this control thing though, thanks.

[TillyP]

Ah Darkmatters, just read your edit. Maybe i am posting in the wrong place. I thought this was a thread where you talked about control in lucid dreams haha! I'm not sure on the terminology at all! I have been lucid dreaming since i was little but really only the last few years trying to work with it. And i've never really talked to anyone about it, or researched it, and just now I am starting.

[Darkmatters]

No, I think you're posting in the right place. If you're wanting to talk about dream control anyway. You've just got me a bit confused is all! And now I think I get what you mean about nested identities - yes, we do put on different traits when talking to different people or in different situations. I just consider that plasticity though - or flexibility. Thanks for explaining that you're a natural lucid dreamer who's not familiar with the established terminology - that explains a lot! And now I understand better where you're coming from. Lol yeah, you stumbled into a big landmine here when you mentioned anything relating to a 'dream within a dream', since that's an idea promoted by Inception that has a lot of newcomers all excited but that really isn't how dreams work (at least not in the way Inception shows it). I also think I'm starting to understand what you're getting at with letting yourself go in order to get control (if that's how you said it - sorry if I butchered that!). You were referring to the techniques you mentioned, such as bringing the treetops to you rather than yourself to the treetops, right? Ok, I understand then. I suppose that is the ego getting in the way as you say - focusing on your 'self' rather than on the environment. But the thing to keep in mind is that, unlike in the waking world, everything in a dream is you. In waking life of course we can't help but filter everything through our own biases and experiences, but in dreaming it's a bit different. Everything is literally created from our own biases, memories, emotions, thoughts, etc. So in effect the entire dream is you - not just your dream body (which sometimes isn't even there or changes or is seen in third person). The tree - the sun - the universe - it's all you. Or at least it's all created by you. But yes, I do think it's a good idea to concentrate on bringing the treetops to you rather than the other way around. Not that I've been lucid enough times to be able to try that yet mind you! Oh, and if you're interested in researching lucidity - the best place to start (other than DV of course) is the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen LaBerge. Best book written on the subject.

[TillyP]

Yea sorry about that...i just bumble in as usual !! Hey i love the term you use, 'nesting identities' - matrioska means 'nesting dolls' Great reminder of everything in dreamscape being me thanks! Yes. Genuine. Even the trees are me. Thank you so much for link to book by Stephen LaBerge. Going to look it up now. haha the thing about lucid dreaming that is annoying is that you can lucid dream 100 times or more and not know. Or at least - not remember. People sometimes think that is unique to dreaming, but you can get up in the morning and not remember you've been lucid and experienced an awesome night...but that doesn't really matter, cos our body remembers and that's what really counts...the amazing thing i find is once i recall one i recall others that connect....

[TillyP]

Just watched some Stephen LaBerge ...thanks, like his ideas on waking and dream consciousness - can relate...and the elephant in the dark! Great synch! Signal Verified Lucid Dream - going to try that tonight He did talk about Inception lol got to see that! Thing is, i still feel like i had a dream within a dream, even now i understand what he means by a false awakening - now i had that once when i though a man had walked through my front door...i 'woke up' realising someone was intruding, walked to the top of my stairs and saw a man there...then i woke up....that was a false awakening no? These dreams have been different. I'm lucid, i sleep, i wake thinking the lucid state was lucid dream then I realise i'm lucid dreaming again, then i wake....goodness me...am i lucid dreaming now? Probably lol sweet dreams people