Thread: Barry's DILD course workbook

Welcome to the workbooks Barry! You can definitely (and I have no doubt you will) have longer LD's! That is great that you have logged so many dream journal entries here on DV!

Currently, I question whether I'm dreaming several times a day...

Have you considered a reminder to help you do this more times during the day? I use the random reminder that is part of the "Awoken" app for android devices but I am sure there are truly random reminders for iphone as well (a google search for "random reminder iphone app" turns up quite a few and some of them, at least, must be truly random). It can help you get into a regular habit until it becomes more natural.

It sounds like MILD is working for you. Have you experimented with different WBTB times? You may only want to do them when you can afford to sleep in.

Let me know if you have any questions and if you like the advice here or anywhere on the forums, don't forget to hit the *like button below.

Hello,

I am definitely confident I can start having longer LD's! I record every single dream I remember onto DV, it's kind of a routine

I did think about it, but I usually think about LDing so I never forgot, but I suppose an alert would be much more random, so yeah I'll give that a go.

MILD does seem to be working, the only problem is It takes me ages to sleep when I'm MILDing, but I'll mix DILD and MILD every now and again. Waking up at 7 and going back to sleep seems most effective, this is the time I had my first LD in 2 years, and when I seem to remember most of my dreams. I can sleep in most days so that's not a problem.

I had a dream last night that I had a lucid dream, I then 'woke' up in my dream and told someone about having a lucid dream, it was weird. Is it normal for on so many occasions not to become lucid when it's staring me in the face!?

Just two normal dreams yesterday, my dream recall has not been as good as I've wanted these last couple of days, so I'm going to focus more on that. My next short term goal is to get a lucid before day 21 of my return.

Waking up at 7 seems to be your sweet spot, then. Great job figuring that out.

Dreaming about lucid dreaming can be a good sign, so don't be discouraged. Unfortunately it is normal. Even with all the LD's I have had I still get those and other clear dream signs that I completely miss.

Welcome back, Barry!

I got back into lucid dreaming about 2 weeks ago, during the first week I started building up my dream recall. If I stop writing down my dreams I remember virtually nothing. I'm now remembering 1-3 dreams per night. For the last week I've started doing reality checks, and MILD before I go to sleep. Last night I set my alarm at 5am, 7am and 9am, which is the period I remember most my dreams. I planned to wake up, write down a dream, do MILD and go back to sleep. I instead woke up at 4am and 6:30 am which kind of messed me up. I will be doing this for another week at least, and am confident I will get my first lucid dream since coming back. In the past, I've given up but hope to stick around at it for a long time this time.

Last night was better, I had much better recall. I will be doing this for another 12 days, I will then review the situation.

Hi Barry,
You may want to try dedicating yourself for a longer period of time. It can take up to several months to start to see the results of regular day and night practice in increasing lucidity. It's great that you have increasing dream recall, I recommend you keep working on recall and add in daytime awareness work. If you can find a way to integrate daytime awareness into your waking life, then that taken together with improving dream recall can improve the quality of your non-lucids, keeping you entertained and motivated while you're waiting for the lucids to appear.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Hi Barry,
You may want to try dedicating yourself for a longer period of time. It can take up to several months to start to see the results of regular day and night practice in increasing lucidity. It's great that you have increasing dream recall, I recommend you keep working on recall and add in daytime awareness work. If you can find a way to integrate daytime awareness into your waking life, then that taken together with improving dream recall can improve the quality of your non-lucids, keeping you entertained and motivated while you're waiting for the lucids to appear.

Hi Fryingman,
I do plan on continuing this for months, it's just that in previous attempts when I've got back into lucid dreaming, it's took me 2-3 weeks to get my first lucid, but I certainly won't give up if it takes longer than this. I question whether I'm dreaming, and do rc's during the day, like looking around seeing if anything looks odd, doing the nose plug rc, and the clock rc. Is there anything else I can do during the day to increase lucidity chances? yes I will continue making sure I work on my dream recall.

Thanks.

Barry,
That sounds like a good approach. You can go all out and really try to constantly stay aware of your state (dream/waking), but if you do your critical questioning with genuine attention several times a day then that's certainly a good way to get going.

Thanks Fryingman, I'm also planning on doing a micro-WBTB at 6am every morning, I usually sleep at 12:30-1am.

I was telling DC's about a dream in my dream today, so I'm taking that as a good sign. I'm confident I'll have my first lucid since coming back within the next 2 weeks.

^^ That's a great sign, yes lucidity is just around the corner, I agree!

In my dream last night I got a Facebook message from a friend about something that happened in a previous dream. Later on in the dream, I also thought about another dream I used to have.

Dreaming is definitely featuring in my dreams, hopefully one of the times I'll think 'this could be a dream too.'

I'm confident that a lucid is not too far away.

Dreaming about dreaming is a sure sign that you're just about to get lucid! Before my first lucid, I dreamt both that my mother was saying that so-and-so "was a lucid dreamer," I also "watched" a neighbor woman lucid dream: I could see her dream images and knew that she was creating them from her imagination. Just two nights ago I dreamt about a "lucid" option to a pie on a restaurant menu!

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Dreaming about dreaming is a sure sign that you're just about to get lucid! Before my first lucid, I dreamt both that my mother was saying that so-and-so "was a lucid dreamer," I also "watched" a neighbor woman lucid dream: I could see her dream images and knew that she was creating them from her imagination. Just two nights ago I dreamt about a "lucid" option to a pie on a restaurant menu!

I hope so

haha that menu thing is weird, I had a dream a few months ago that I walked into a lucid dream shop, as i mentioned in my first post on here.

Also, if you don't mind, could you give me steps on everything you do on an average day for lding?

I just want to know if If theres anything I'm missing.

Yeah I woke up right after that lucid pie thing and actually said out loud "Lucid pie!? You've got to be f^&*ing kidding me!" [that I missed it!]

On your request: that's a tall order! I know that I often wish to see the same thing from advanced lucid dreamers. But many times they're reluctant to do so. I sort of understand why: lucid dreaming is intensely personal, a practitioner really needs to make their own way through the wilderness and discover what works best for them. Sensei says that if you follow someone, you'll fall short of where they are (because their path is their own). Another reason is: maybe they're not very organized themselves! Or, maybe they're not sure what they do!

But I hate that answer and think it's a bit of a cop out so won't leave it at just that .

For my approach to dream recall, see the link to my tips in my signature.

For my general approach to lucidity, see the link right next to the recall tips in my signature "Memm's no-technique." That entire thread represents my current approach, you may want to review it. The key words are in my signature: "Breathing, Mindfulness, WBTB, Confidence, Dedication, *Memory*"

In a nutshell: you need day work and night work. Breaking these down further:

Day work: build strong awareness, exercise access to memory, cultivate expectation ("woohoo, can't wait for bedtime, awesome dreams toNIGHT!"), build excitement, stay positive

Night work: set intention to recognize the dream state/realize you're dreaming [at bedtime and every time you wake], WBTB, notice wakings, recall dreams, WILD attempts, frame the point of the night as being for dreaming and for rest, not unconscious blacking out until morning.

build strong awareness: pay attention to yourself and life, don't be a zombie. Meditate (pick a format that you like), e.g., focus on the breath/being aware of awareness. The key thing is to practice over and over and over recognizing when your mind has wandered, and gently bringing it back into focus. Question your state every single chance you get. Try to keep a running mental subtext of determining what your state is (dream/awake).

exercise access to memory: Sageous RRC (memory part: what was I doing 15 minutes ago?), dream recall, waking life recall

About being worried about "missing something:" As long as you're working on the fundamentals, however you're doing it, you're in good shape.

Probably the most important meta-fundamental: Never quit! Dreaming and lucid dreaming is the most awesome discipline -- it takes effort spent consistently over time to build the ability higher and higher, just like in any worthwhile endeavor. Wouldn't you rather be 1, 2, 5, 10 years down the road, enjoying the benefits of having practiced diligently for all that time? The time will pass anyway! Don't get frustrated, every day spent working on LDing is a day in the bank of your experience and building your ability.

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any questions.

fogelbise, feel free to chime in on the theme of "a day in the life of a practicing lucid dreamer…."

Thanks for that, yes maybe I should find my own way. I will check out the links. As you and others have said constantly checking your state does seem to be very important, so I will make sure I keep that up and possibly do it more.

Basically in the beginning, try a bunch of different things. Experimentation is key, constantly evaluate what "clicks" with you and what doesn't. But you have to take a long-term approach, since results take a while to appear, so it's not immediately obviously what "works." As long as you're focused on the fundamentals (awareness, memory, recall, expectation, intention, effort, etc.), and eventually settle on your own approach, you'll do great!

As you recall more and more dreams, you'll really internalize the truth that at any conscious moment, you could actually be in the dream state. That will drive and motivate an honest critical questioning of your state.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

fogelbise, feel free to chime in on the theme of "a day in the life of a practicing lucid dreamer…."

I have to change up my day practices a little from time to time to keep them at least somewhat potent. Day practices usually involve RRC, RC, reflecting on the fact that I am he who is aware of my awareness, visualizing myself from different vantages, and really stopping during awareness check-ins. I also like to mix in "If I were lucid right now, I would..." and imagining "this is all a dream!" If I feel burned out I may just do a few of these things until I dig up some inspiration like finding the beauty around me or reading my dream journals.

Nighttime: WBTB almost always whether quick or longer. I used to always use SSILD and sometimes mix in dream sign and or lucid mantras. Lately I find more enjoyment playing with dreams I just had and imagining becoming lucid or just trying to go into a specific dream or return to a dream from the night especially if I am not doing a proper wakeful WBTB and I instead stay much more with a "dreamy" mind. It is less effective so far but easy to go back to sleep. I tend to use this for awakenings that are earlier than 4.5 hours especially or if I feel under rested.

Update

It's been 19 days since I've got back to Lucid dreaming. Still not had an LD yet since returning, I'm slightly frustrated I must admit, but I know I shouldn't be.

Reality checks

I've decided to stop using the Lucid dream app today, it would alert me every hour to do a reality check, but It's not really random, and I want to more reality checks during the day and at times I think are better.

I still ask myself If I'm dreaming, then look around to see if anything looks unusual. I follow that up by looking at my hand twice, to look for any changes. I then do a nose plug to confirm I'm not dreaming.

Dream Recall

Today I recorded 1 dream, but yesterday I recorded 4 dreams which is kind of a record for me, so that's good.

Given that you've been away for 2 years, it's probably not unexpected that it would take time similar to a complete beginner to get your first lucid. If you're working really assiduously every day and night, the average seems to be around 4 weeks until the first LD. Some people sooner, some people later. Keep up the awareness work, but really focus on dream recall in the beginning. Recording 4 dreams is great, congrats!

Remember, if you really want to boost recall, learn to notice nighttime wakings, this gives you multiple opportunities to work on recall in a night.

Yes, I think it's best to rely on your own sense of "it's time to do an RC," and you want to try to get to this point more and more frequently during the day.

I think it is better not to complete the thought and conclude "I'm not dreaming" when doing an RC. If an RC indicates "awake" for me, I'll think "hmm, interesting, the next time I'm dreaming, I remember to recognize I'm dreaming". Once in a while I'll just do a "fake" RC and always conclude "I'm dreaming!" to make sure the results from the RC aren't always "awake." I don't do it a lot, but once in a while.

When I first started it took me 5 weeks to get my first lucid, so that sounds about right. Then it took me 4 weeks to get my 2nd, and then 9 days to get my 3rd! I really wish I hadn't quit, but college got in the way and I got lazy. I did exactly the same back then, but when I got my 2nd and 3rd LD I was really confident, so that may be the difference.

I'm not good at recognizing nighttime wakings, so I'll work on that. I'll wake up briefly for a few seconds and then I'll fall asleep, so I'm planning on using an alarm, that way I'll have to turn it off, and I'll remember to write down my dreams. I know alarms aren't great for recall, but it's better than getting nothing down.

I'll say 'awake' then instead, as saying 'I'm not dreaming' was exactly what I was doing. I'll aim to do it 20+ times a day. That fake RC sound interesting, I'll give that a go every now and again then.

The nice thing about just saying "I'm dreaming!" is you can then practice your "just got lucid ritual" -- quick stabilization, review goals, look around before running off, etc.

I would still recommend saying nothing if your RC indicates awake. One thing to remember is that if you think you might be dreaming, you don't want to stop doing RCs until you prove you're dreaming -- do a bunch of them and really look around. The thing you want to avoid is a quick "ah, awake" and then just return to the dream. That's why you do not want to rehearse thinking "awake" or "not dreaming," IMO.

You can learn to notice wakings with intent and practice. If it's important to you, you'll wake up all through the night, just like the night before a big test or some important early morning appointment. Recreate the same feeling of importance and you won't need an alarm. Try it with an alarm to start with (a gentle one!) if you must, but I recommend working on non-alarm as well.

You're very young yet, so you have decades of awesome dreaming ahead of you. Don't feel rushed, just dedicate yourself to the practice and don't quit! However long it takes, it's worth the wait!