CanisLucidus

You crack me up dude.

Thats really interesting to OBE in a childhood bed. Like time travel heehe. I alway end up in a more current reality.

Yeah, it did feel a lot like time travel! My old room has long since been converted into an office, but here it was back to just the way it was when I was a kid. (Well, at least as far as I investigated, which wasn't especially far.) But I still felt like an adult rather than a kid. Of course, none of this is any problem for dream logic.

Yes, yours seem to always take place in the here and now, down to the time of morning. Well, I take that back. Sometimes I think you have the sun up for early morning in your OBE-style dreams.

No actually its pretty right on. I usually accidentally make the sun come up while begging for some source of Light :p

I've had that thing happen before where you're acting like you're lucid in a non-lucid, it always depresses me a bit because my control is usually better in them lol.

Good dream, though. And at least you respect your lucid aids! So are you just in the process of mastering phasing?

Ah, it's cool to hear that I'm not the only person that this happens to. It's amazing how the mind can take you through the ritual of lucidity without you really being lucid. Now that you mention it, my control really was good, but my brainpower... not so much. It hadn't occurred to my pre-lucid self to leave the room.

Thank you! And yeah, glass phasing is usually pretty good for me. Occasionally the glass will get thick and annoying, sort of like saran wrap, but mostly this works. Phasing through walls/ceilings/etc. (super useful IMO) is not something I'm so great at. I did it without any thought or difficulty in my [b]third[/i] lucid dream, but since then, truly solid surfaces haven't been too easy for me.

If only I knew now what I knew then... IIRC, you're a real phasing natural, isn't that right? What would your advice be for a guy that can't even jam himself through a basic brick wall?

Hehe, yeah, it just goes to show how complex the whole situation is.

I know what you mean by the saran wrap effect!! I always thought that were so annoying because they're awesome and terrible at the same time lol.

Mmm, well you're right about that phasing being useful. And I'm pretty much a master at it now, yeah. I haven't had to use any conscious thought for it in a long time, maybe years even.... It was the first power that I ever trained myself to be good at, since I couldn't do it very well at all when I first started getting lucid. Where I am now, I can essentially remove all of the collision detection for the whole dream world by default. So let me ask you first, how are you attempting to do it? Are you like stretching your arms out first and forcing your way through and all that stuff?

Dang, being able to switch off collision detection at will sounds sweet. (Hmmm... I see potential there for Antarctica Task of the Year!)

And yes, that is exactly how I phase! Right arm outstretched, punch the hand and arm through, drag everything else behind me. I'm reading between the lines and getting a vibe that you no longer need to go through all these theatrics for your "no clip mode". I'd love to switch off the schema that "solid stuff is always solid", but my mind is clinging to that one pretty tightly. (Therein lies the problem I guess!)

I feel better that at least you had to learn it.

*checks Task of the Year thread*

That does seem like it'd be a pretty good place for it. And it is pretty great. n_n I make use of it in almost every lucid and it never gets old.

You are quite correct, sir, no theatrics necessary for me. And that's actually going to be the main focus of the advice I can give. What I had to realize with my technique is that I was directly giving power to the walls.... When you reach out to push through the wall, you're just establishing the fact that the wall can show some form of resistance. That was never a rule until you set it up that way, that wall was just background data from your field of vision. The truth is, there are no walls anywhere in the dream world, ever... so why should you act like there are? The next time you try to phase through a wall, why don't you just keep walking like it's not even there? Because it isn't, after all. The same goes with flying through ceilings. There are no obstacles there, so you shouldn't behave like there are. The whole map is just open and there for you to explore. Does that help at all?

Honestly, I think the root of dream control comes from abandoning all preconceptions of any kind, and just remembering that nothing exists unless you choose for it too, and thereby everything that you choose to exist will.... And when you get that down, the REAL fun starts. I don't even really use my phasing just a normal way that often anymore, I've kind of combined it with the techniques I used for flying so that I can just warp all around the map and use it to visualize a scenario and then "jump" (like flying, or sliding over to that point) as a means of summoning it to the foreground. Also, are you into possession at all?

Yes, that makes perfect sense, thank you! i am comforted by just how well this fits in with my understanding of dream control. It sounds so much like what I suggest to people when they have issues trying to fight off hostile entities. And the same thing that OpheliaBlue recommended for getting unstuck from blankets after and FA.

Essentially, nothing in the dream can exist without the dreamer. So walls or demonic figures or sticky blankets only possess whatever strength we give them. The theatrical act of phrasing, now that you have put it this way, is kind of like giving the wall a bunch of form and energy... and then fighting like crazy to take it away!

Thanks for the great advice. I think the best advice always sounds like something which once you hear it you feel like you should have known all along. I'm on my Wbtb typing this on the kindle fire so perhaps I'll get to put this into practice in a few minutes. How's that for presumptuous?

I like this conversation. I've started to look at phasing by actually saying the object is not there (just glass and mirrors for now). I decided to stop trying to use brute force and push through it but to reach for the space just on the other side. By shifting my focus away from the "solid" surface I act as if it is just an empty space. It has made the entire thing easier for me. The last two attempts we really successful. Sometimes it still feels a little like passing through Jello but at least I stopped bouncing my face off things. Now, brick walls might be a little more difficult but I bet the concept would still be the same. Do I have it about right, Alyzarin?

Now that I think about it. One of my favorite lucid playtimes in running out in front of traffic. The cars always pass through rather than hitting me. Sort of the same but reversed, I guess.

LOL. I've always thought it was hilarious how you like to play in traffic during your LDs. Paigey does that too IIRC.

Gotta try that sometime, especially now that you point out what good phasing practice it might be!

Yeah I think she's mentioned that. I'm glad I'm not the only one. I don't summon it but if I see traffic I tend to jump in the way. Must be some god complex or waking life frustrations. I think last time I force pushed a car into a tree.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Yes, that makes perfect sense, thank you! i am comforted by just how well this fits in with my understanding of dream control. It sounds so much like what I suggest to people when they have issues trying to fight off hostile entities. And the same thing that OpheliaBlue recommended for getting unstuck from blankets after and FA.

Essentially, nothing in the dream can exist without the dreamer. So walls or demonic figures or sticky blankets only possess whatever strength we give them. The theatrical act of phrasing, now that you have put it this way, is kind of like giving the wall a bunch of form and energy... and then fighting like crazy to take it away!

Thanks for the great advice. I think the best advice always sounds like something which once you hear it you feel like you should have known all along. I'm on my Wbtb typing this on the kindle fire so perhaps I'll get to put this into practice in a few minutes. How's that for presumptuous?

Hehe, have you had a chance to use it yet? I definitely agree, sometimes you can tell that things just fit! And you're quite welcome.

Originally Posted by Xanous

I like this conversation. I've started to look at phasing by actually saying the object is not there (just glass and mirrors for now). I decided to stop trying to use brute force and push through it but to reach for the space just on the other side. By shifting my focus away from the "solid" surface I act as if it is just an empty space. It has made the entire thing easier for me. The last two attempts we really successful. Sometimes it still feels a little like passing through Jello but at least I stopped bouncing my face off things. Now, brick walls might be a little more difficult but I bet the concept would still be the same. Do I have it about right, Alyzarin?

Now that I think about it. One of my favorite lucid playtimes in running out in front of traffic. The cars always pass through rather than hitting me. Sort of the same but reversed, I guess.

Sounds right to me! That focusing on the destination rather than the obstacle is sort of related to my flying thing, but when I'm walking through walls I just don't really focus on anything except looking around. But it still comes down to the same thing, just not focusing on the wall. I think it's especially important to highlight that too, that it really does have to be NOT focused on the wall, in any way. Even if you're just trying to walk straight through it, if you think about the fact that you're trying to walk through a solid surface it can still backfire on you. You just really have to not see it as an obstacle at all, and it gets easier with every success.

About the car thing, I do that a lot, too. Usually I try to direct it though, like stopping a car with telekinesis, but one time I just hunched down in front of an oncoming one and pushed it away when it hit me. It really is fun lol.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Hehe, have you had a chance to use it yet? I definitely agree, sometimes you can tell that things just fit! And you're quite welcome.

Not yet, but that's just me not getting lucid. Say... why not tonight?

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Sounds right to me! That focusing on the destination rather than the obstacle is sort of related to my flying thing, but when I'm walking through walls I just don't really focus on anything except looking around.

And the more I've thought about the method, the more it seems to me like it might have potential as a generalized teleportation approach too. If instead of looking around at the current scenery, I wonder what would happen if you thought only of the scene that you're about to walk into just beyond the wall.

It seems like this should work (and I very badly want it to.) Because I can't think of many scenes where I didn't have access to either a wall or some sky. And if it works like I believe it will, you're never far from anywhere you want to go.

I will be trying this the next time I'm lucid and get close to a wall!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Not yet, but that's just me not getting lucid. Say... why not tonight?

Well good luck with it then!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

And the more I've thought about the method, the more it seems to me like it might have potential as a generalized teleportation approach too. If instead of looking around at the current scenery, I wonder what would happen if you thought only of the scene that you're about to walk into just beyond the wall.

It seems like this should work (and I very badly want it to.) Because I can't think of many scenes where I didn't have access to either a wall or some sky. And if it works like I believe it will, you're never far from anywhere you want to go.

I will be trying this the next time I'm lucid and get close to a wall!

To be honest, I've never thought of that lol. And I've even tried phasing through a wall, then walking through a door normally back to the other side trying to change the location. Sometimes the location on the other side of the wall doesn't always match what it should, though (even without trying anything, I mean). Good luck with that too when you give it a shot!

But I mean, you're really never far from anywhere when you're in a dream. I think it's oh-so-taunting to point out the fact that not only does the hippocampus seem to generate the hallucinations involved potentially in both dreams and imagination (which makes perfect sense), but it also contains a neural map of where you are in your environment. Given that stimulation of the hippocampus causes out-of-body experiences, I don't think it's too crazy to say that such experiences, and dreams, may be a result of the two functions coming together, essentially recording your mental visualization (which is strong enough to become a fully rendered world at that level of activation) into your mental map. I like to think that there's a feedback loop involved here that's activated by a switch.... Basically, I think it would be that data comes in from the outside world and builds your location in your environment, and that plays an integral role in the generation of your imagination at that point in time, helping you decide what to do next. When that connection from the outside world is shut off and the body prepares to dream, it stimulates the hippocampus in such a way that causes information being read from the mental map to alter your mind like normal, and then that information is sent back to the mental map where it's again interpreted, and that leads to the bizarre, endless goal-oriented nature of dreaming. And of course, this process would still work even if the outside sources weren't shut off, which is why with things like sleep paralysis and hallucinogens you can get a mix of sensory input coming from both external and internal data. The point of all that being that anywhere you imagine is already technically where you are in a dream. It's just like thinking of the wall as an obstacle, I think.... Just remember that you aren't anywhere to begin with, just like there's no wall to begin with, so instead of trying to overcome something all you need to do is "know" where you are (where you want to be) and you'll be there, and I'm sure a quick visual update like walking through the wall will take care of the rest nicely, but even just turning around or blinking could do it, too. I've used that method with things like flying recently while keeping all of this in mind and it's worked out pretty well.

Just something that comes to mind!