Thread: Dream Sharing

Originally Posted by AustralianFire

I think this is what is in the experiment
1) Become lucid
2) find other person
3) make them lucid (if they arn't already)
4) exchange passwords (i assume everyone has theirs by now)
5) Attempt To wake up
6) log on dreamviews and ask the person if password was *insert password here* and if they remeber the dream, that is all
7) a.if they say yes, exhange dreams, forumate new password to continure testing
b. if they say yes thats the password but no they don't remeber the dream, wait a couple of days to tests nomads theory shared dreams can days apart
c. If they say no that's not the pass and no thats not the dream, its a hit for shared dreaming

You cannot rely on the other persons word for weather it was a shared dream or not you have to have them tell you exactly what happened and have them give you the password without you giving them any information at all. It has to be as systematic as possible with as little chance of error or subconcious guess work.

I think the only way we can do this is if we have one person be the administrator of the test who organizes it and only person that knows the password. The password would have to be random like a series of numbers and letters and not something like a word. He gives only the information that is necesary for the experiment and then does not post his dream journal until after the experiment is over.

The other dreamer is tasked to meet the administrator in a dream, recieve the password and take note of as much dream content as possible before waking up and taking complete note of the password and everythng they remember from the dream. The other dreamer then sends a message to the administrator including the password and the entire journal of the dream and anything else the dreamer thinks is relevent. The administrator does not reply until after reviewing the results and coming to a conclusion for that test.

It will only prove that it was a shared dream to the administrator but would be many times more conclusive. You could the experiment over again with the other dreamer know as the administrator so that both can get evidence for themselves. It may seem tedious but it is the only way we are going to have conclusive results over the internet even if it is just for personal evidence at the moment. If we could do this in person and in a sleep lab with a much more controled environment it would probably be different and the "administrator" would be a third party from the dreamers and being the middle man for their comunication and reviewing their dreams journals to check for evidence.

I think we should not test Nomads theory that shared dreaming can take place in different times until after we have more understanding of shared dreaming.

I think that is a little over the top to provent sudcosuise exchange as no one ever meets each over and very little information is exchange by post on the internet. And a serias of random meaningless letters and numders might be hard to rememder than a real word. A random word generator might work well as the word will have no value to the person. In later studies a more intensive and controlled sample group will be needed.

I'd agree with Evilchickens on this one - at this point, we're just trying to prove shared dreaming to ourselves. A third party to generate a random word would be needed for results to be accepted by the scientific community, but we don't need that at this stage. If someone can post what happened in my dream before I give any indication of it, I'll sure believe in shared dreaming. The third party is a good idea and we'll probably use that to prove SDing to other people.

With the time zone thing, we're technically already working on it. I have two groups trying to dreamshare with me - one in the same time zone (or an hour off, but that difference is negligible) and one around 12 hours off. If everyone in the first group can eventually consistently share dreams with me but no one in the second can, then we've shown major evidence that time zones do matter. If both groups have a similar rate of success, time zones probably don't matter.

How are we going to prove shared dreaming to ourselves if there's a chance we could be subconsciously skewing the results? All that will accomplish is making us believe more in shared dreaming when in reality we might not have gotten any valid results at all. We need to be accurate. Therefore everything must be documented, and only the subjects' written results must be compared.

To evilchickens, I do agree on not using random letters and numbers. A random word generator could be the best route to go.


Anyway, I agree with AustralianFire. We can't take each other's word for it. We need to eliminate as much experimental error as possible by using a third party.

Here's the experiment I had in mind.

1. Each lucid dreamer comes up with their own secret word or phrase in advance, and memorizes it. They must stick with this word or phrase until a shared dream occurs. After having a shared dream and submitting their written report to the third party, all subjects that were in the shared dream must change their secret phrase if it they attempted to exchange it in the shared dream. You absolutely must not tell anybody your secret phrase other than inside of a shared dream.

2. One of the subjects becomes lucid. If they have a specific shared dreaming partner in mind, they teleport to their dream by some means (a portal, spinning, covering their eyes with their hands and moving them away to reveal their partner's dream, etc). Otherwise, they decide on someone at the time of lucidity and teleport to that person's dream.

3. The initiator (the one who is initially lucid) attempts to make the other dreamer lucid. This means the initiator will have to find the dreamer in their dream, (requiring them to know what they look like or to be able to 'feel' their level of consciousness/awareness) and tell them that they're dreaming. The initiator must also tell the other dreamer to perform a reality check so that their awareness is heightened.

4. Once the other dreamer is lucid and their dream is stable, both dreamers must immediately exchange their secret word/phrase. Repeat this a couple times to ensure the phrases are remembered as best as possible by both dreamers. It is advised that both dreamers take a "memory pill" to help remember the phrase. (Using a memory pill has never been tested, so I don't know if it would help, but it honestly can't hurt. Remember, lucid dreams are directly linked to our subconscious minds.)

5. Both subjects take note of their environment, trying to remember as many characteristics as possible. This includes buildings, colors, people, objects, time of day, what each subject is wearing, etc. Another memory pill may be taken.

6. Once that is done, both dreamers immediately wake themselves up. This can be done by will (my method), closing your dream eyes and standing still (to stop the dream sensory input), telling your dream to wake you up, inducing extreme excitement/emotions or another method of your choosing.

7. As soon as the subject is awake, they stay completely still and go over everything that happened while it is still fresh in their mind, with special priority attributed to remembering the other dreamer's phrase. Once they go over the entire shared dream a couple times in their head, they immediately perform a reality check to eliminate the chance of a false awakening.

8. Once it is certain that the subject is awake, they write down their entire shared dream. To ensure that the more important details are written down first, the subject should document it in this order (or similar):

-Other subject's phrase
-Your phrase
-Place
-Other important details
-As many minor details that can be remembered

9. The morning following the shared dream, the subjects must submit all documentation of the shared dream to the third party, and refrain from communicating with their shared dream partner until the documentation is submitted. Editing your shared dream documentation after communicating with the shared dream partner is strictly prohibited, since this may skew the results.

10. The third party reviews the results and highlights any similarities and differences. They post the reviewed results along with both dreamers' documentation in the thread reserved for this experiment.

Originally Posted by MindGames

How are we going to prove shared dreaming to ourselves if there's a chance we could be subconsciously skewing the results? All that will accomplish is making us believe more in shared dreaming when in reality we might not have gotten any valid results at all. We need to be accurate. Therefore everything must be documented, and only the subjects' written results must be compared.

To evilchickens, I do agree on not using random letters and numbers. A random word generator could be the best route to go.


Anyway, I agree with AustralianFire. We can't take each other's word for it. We need to eliminate as much experimental error as possible by using a third party.

Here's the experiment I had in mind.

1. Each lucid dreamer comes up with their own secret word or phrase in advance, and memorizes it. They must stick with this word or phrase until a shared dream occurs. After having a shared dream and submitting their written report to the third party, all subjects that were in the shared dream must change their secret phrase if it they attempted to exchange it in the shared dream. You absolutely must not tell anybody your secret phrase other than inside of a shared dream.

2. One of the subjects becomes lucid. If they have a specific shared dreaming partner in mind, they teleport to their dream by some means (a portal, spinning, covering their eyes with their hands and moving them away to reveal their partner's dream, etc). Otherwise, they decide on someone at the time of lucidity and teleport to that person's dream.

3. The initiator (the one who is initially lucid) attempts to make the other dreamer lucid. This means the initiator will have to find the dreamer in their dream, (requiring them to know what they look like or to be able to 'feel' their level of consciousness/awareness) and tell them that they're dreaming. The initiator must also tell the other dreamer to perform a reality check so that their awareness is heightened.

4. Once the other dreamer is lucid and their dream is stable, both dreamers must immediately exchange their secret word/phrase. Repeat this a couple times to ensure the phrases are remembered as best as possible by both dreamers. It is advised that both dreamers take a "memory pill" to help remember the phrase. (Using a memory pill has never been tested, so I don't know if it would help, but it honestly can't hurt. Remember, lucid dreams are directly linked to our subconscious minds.)

5. Both subjects take note of their environment, trying to remember as many characteristics as possible. This includes buildings, colors, people, objects, time of day, what each subject is wearing, etc. Another memory pill may be taken.

6. Once that is done, both dreamers immediately wake themselves up. This can be done by will (my method), closing your dream eyes and standing still (to stop the dream sensory input), telling your dream to wake you up, inducing extreme excitement/emotions or another method of your choosing.

7. As soon as the subject is awake, they stay completely still and go over everything that happened while it is still fresh in their mind, with special priority attributed to remembering the other dreamer's phrase. Once they go over the entire shared dream a couple times in their head, they immediately perform a reality check to eliminate the chance of a false awakening.

8. Once it is certain that the subject is awake, they write down their entire shared dream. To ensure that the more important details are written down first, the subject should document it in this order (or similar):

-Other subject's phrase
-Your phrase
-Place
-Other important details
-As many minor details that can be remembered

9. The morning following the shared dream, the subjects must submit all documentation of the shared dream to the third party, and refrain from communicating with their shared dream partner until the documentation is submitted. Editing your shared dream documentation after communicating with the shared dream partner is strictly prohibited, since this may skew the results.

10. The third party reviews the results and highlights any similarities and differences. They post the reviewed results along with both dreamers' documentation in the thread reserved for this experiment.

I think we are refining our method and getting closer to being able to do some valid tests to prove it to ourselfs. I was thinking that the administrator would be the best way to get rid of the chance of subconcious information getting through iwl but now I realize that it might be a little hard and inefficient to do it that way and that a third person would be the best but who could the third person be? They should be open minded yet skepticle and be someone trustworthy and credible. Maby we could get one of the dream views staff to help us.

The initiators should be fairly good at lucid dreaming. Maby get atleast a lucid a week fairly reliably or the testing might take to long. They still should have limited comunication until the third party reviews the data.

Also a word generator would be beter than a random series of numbers, I hadn't thought of that. As long as the word has no meaning to the person it should be fine and words can be hard enough to remember much less random numbers.

Man, we're really refining this experiment! I wonder who the 3rd party could be? Definitely agree with MadMonkey that someone on the DV staff would be helpful. I suppose we should ask someone at some point.

Just be careful and wary of pass-phrases, as words are extremely difficult to remember from dreams. Also I will mention that it's VERY difficult to help a non-lucid dreamer become lucid, according to the shared dreaming community present in DV already, as most dreamers do not recognize someone saying that they are dreaming as something that would spark their attention or awareness.

Also, locations are the best way to "prove" this, along with details of the location, but the only problem is you cannot come up with a location beforehand, or else it will be in the subconscious mind, potentially discrediting the experiment.

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

Just be careful and wary of pass-phrases, as words are extremely difficult to remember from dreams. Also I will mention that it's VERY difficult to help a non-lucid dreamer become lucid, according to the shared dreaming community present in DV already, as most dreamers do not recognize someone saying that they are dreaming as something that would spark their attention or awareness.

It is different from person to person, i can rember speech quite eaily in a dream, and i can also rember dates, a DC told me the end of the world was 28th Novemeber 2011. Were as some people only remember the theme of conversation but not actual words

I seems to dreams share that a planned location is unnesersy and you only need to plan to walk into their dream by teleportation (Thats if your lucid that is) to get there. It also appears that people wear and look different to each other, so it is possible the locations look different too. So passwords are the best way to prove it.

I know right? Its just your body. Lucid dreaming itself is almost scientific you know?

There is no way to prove shared dreaming scientifically without isolating the dreamers in sleep labs.

BUT, if you want to prove it to yourself, here is all you need to do:
1) Get a partner.

2) Agree to meet somewhere in a dream, that is a great landmark, like the highest peak of Everest, the Eifell Tower, or Ayers Rock. Then, go do something together.

That's it. No one needs to be lucid.

No one needs to exchange passwords.

One step at a time.

Instead of spending so much energy trying to think of ways to prove shared dreaming, just try and do it. Everyone on this thread, partner with someone else, and try and do shared dreaming every night.

You may have to increase your dream skills, but remember the most important dream skill is RECALL!

It also helps if you have found your DG first, but it's not necessary.

ALSO, read some shared dream journals. There are many people who have had shared dreams on DV. Ezzie_Ezz and mrdeano shared a dream, and they didn't even know the other was a user on DV!

They found out in chat the next day.


Remember to persist! Scientists perform the same experiment hundreds of times.

I wonder if guides may hold the key to shared dreaming. I've never talked to my guide about shared dreaming, but she is the one that initiates and directs our interaction. If I make shared dreaming my intent perhaps my dream guide will address it.

Thanks for the tips, Nomad! I just have one question - how can you pick a location if you're not lucid?

The problem with that, Nomad, is that since both dreamers have previously agreed on the location, there is a chance that both dreamers could dream of going to that location and seeing their dream partner, and yet not have an actual shared dream. I'd much rather be able to use the location as solid evidence that the shared dream actually occurred. The more we leave things to chance, the lest reliable the results of this experiment are.

As I explained previously, it is unlikely that a shared dream will spontaneously occur and that both dreamers will remember it the next morning if neither dreamer is lucid. Many dreams occur over the course of a night and the chances of both dreamers being able to remember a non-lucid shared dream are small.
However, if one dreamer becomes lucid, they could at that point teleport into their partner's dream and try to make them lucid. If they cannot make their partner lucid (which has yet to be tested), then there is a small chance that the non-lucid dreamer will be able to verify that the shared dream took place. Of course there is some chance that they will remember, but this experiment only has a relatively small chance of proving shared dreaming exists to much of an extent unless both dreamers are lucid at the same time.

The fact that this is not a completely formal experiment doesn't matter. We still need to implement a scientific process. If we are proving shared dreaming to ourselves then it's obvious that we wouldn't cheat on the results, therefore making the use of an isolated sleep lab unnecessary. This experiment also has some value in proving shared dreaming to others if we do it correctly. That is, if we don't make it completely anectodal and subjective. That's why I designed the experiment that I posted previously in a fashion that gives it some credibility with the use of a third party (rather than your method of proving shared dreaming exists via the similarity of dream journals, which skeptics have no reason to believe since it lacks a rigid scientific structure).

By exchanging passwords it proves it scientifficlly as you have a controlled envirement and a system that prove or is highly surgestive of shared dreaming possiblity. Just because we've not using high preiciose electrical machines doesn't mean we carn't sciencifically prove it, as long as you make it a fair test with as little error as possible.
I would also like people to think of a way to disprove the dream sharing theory, if we keep getting negactive results.

Consistent negative results will disprove shared dreaming in and of themselves.

i like what Nomads getting at, but i still want to use the password exchange, because that to me would prove that it wasn't a fluke.

I'm gonna have to agree with Nomad on this one I think. He has some really good points...especially in that we need to take this one step at a time. I think that rushing it and trying to think of as many ways as we can to prove it is going to make it that much harder, when it's probably a lot easier than we're making it out to be.

I am a fan of the password exchange though, I just think it would be interesting to see if it can be recalled by the receiver. That is, if both people were lucid, which Nomad has said isn't necessary.

Though I do like everyone's ideas on the subject and how to prove it exists, I think we're trying too hard. Maybe we just need to step back and have some faith and patience.

Very well, majority rules; we'll use Nomad's version.

For those of you who still want to use the random word generator, I found one: Random Word Generator (Plus)
Make sure you set the generator to 'Average' and 'Noun' or else your shared dreaming partner might not recognize the word you tell them in the dream.


By the way, I still think trying to make the other person lucid will make this experiment a lot more successful if it can be achieved, so I'm going to try to do so. If the rest of you want to take this experiment slower, I don't blame you for wanting to.

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

You cannot rely on the other persons word for weather it was a shared dream or not you have to have them tell you exactly what happened and have them give you the password without you giving them any information at all. It has to be as systematic as possible with as little chance of error or subconcious guess work.

I think the only way we can do this is if we have one person be the administrator of the test who organizes it and only person that knows the password. The password would have to be random like a series of numbers and letters and not something like a word.

I agree with this, except for the password needing to be a random set of numbers/letters. Successfully sharing a random word to another person would be proof enough for me.
The 'middleman' who takes the passwords and confims whether or not they have been sucessfully transmitted is the most scientific approach.

I am interested in trying this with someone in the same time zone as me (UK time zone but I usually go to bed at 3-4am so I dunno what time zone that puts me in lol).
For a start I would just like to try and share a dream. I dont need hard evidence to back it up for now. Just fun dreaming and trying to get into some elses dream.
Anyone wanna join me?

It seems like we have a lot of people willing to try this!

The middleman is a great idea to prove it to other people, but we need to prove it to ourselves first to get us motivated for larger experiments. I agree that we should just exchange passwords with other people and ask the person the next day if they were given a particular word.

Since we have a lot of people, how about we split up:

GMoney and KristaNicole07
MindGames and MadMonkey
EvilChickens and LostOnTrains
AustralianFire and Snowboy

Anybody have different requests? It'll probably be easier just trying to get into one person's dream than to attempt it for a whole group.

^^^ sounds good!

Yeah, that sounds okay to me.

Also, if I have the time, I may decide to enter other people's dreams in addition to MadMonkey's, namely GMoney and KristaNicole (because you guys are on my friends list, and I think you're both in similar time zones as mine). This might increase the chances of somebody remembering the shared dream and will also provide some solid proof that it actually happened since it will have been unplanned.

A few years ago I was pretty good at LD'ing. Recently I have lost touch with it, occasionally I have a spontaneous LD, but not like in the past. Ive been doing my reality checks these last few days. Hopefully it will be easy for me to slip back in to LD'ing (like riding a bike, right?)...

So I have no idea what EvilChickens looks like, what gender, what they dream about, etc etc... maybe this is a good thing. I will attempt to LD over the next week. If I succeed, I will attempt to enter their dream somehow (perhaps going to a door, visualising the door leading to EvilChickens dream on the other side, then walking through.) Once there I will do something, not sure what. Lets keep it random.
I will also be recording all dreams that I have, lucid or not, in my dream diary.

TBH, I am sceptical about shared dreams, but I am keeping an open mind in the true sense of the word. Experiment: Phase 1!

OK going to bed now. First, reality check... OK, now bed.