Astral parasites

[CrimpJiggler]

For years now whenever I go into sleep paralysis I get the same hallucination of things latching onto my spine. When it started off, it just felt like a mosquito bite, it wasn't painful, just felt wrong, like I'm being violated of something. Nowadays its more like a tum tac getting pushed into my spine, it hurts. I just lay back and observe it, like I do with all sleep paralysis hallucinations but its difficult not to react to this sometimes cuz it feels so wrong, feels like something is latching onto me so it can drain something out of me like a mosquito drains blood when it bites you. I generally feel these things attach to me about 15 seconds after I go into sleep paralysis. It almost always comes with the hallucination of hands grabbing me and these hands hold me back and prevent me from kick starting a lucid dream (or OBE if thats whats going on). If these things are some kind of astral creatures or phenomena, is there a way I can detach them from me? The impression I get is they are not intelligent, they are like some kind of astral bots but they're much more advanced than any internet bot ever programmed by a human, so it could seem autonomous and intelligent to someone didn't know any better. A while ago I was trying to get into a lucid dream and I found myself floating above my body, like I was swimming in mid air but couldn't move anywhere. Something (it seemed like a male, around 6ft tall) came up behind me and positioned itself on my back. After that I felt something latch onto my spine, then felt what felt like a spiked tube get drilled into my ass, then one in the back of the skull. The thing on my back said "I'll be with you until the end of days, draining your energy" and "I really like your soul". Maybe that was just some dream like phenomenon thats all in my head, maybe something else. If its the latter and that was something going on in the astral dimension, I would like to do something about this. For one, I want to shove one of these parasitic alien tentacle tube things up the astral parasites ass. Only joking, I don't care about retaliating, I just want to get these cords off my spine and render myself immune to them. Has anyone here got experience with astral parsites?

[Psionik]

It may be imagination, it may be real... If it was lucid dream then it was almost 100% imagination. If it was OBE... I'm not sure. There are things that persist even while your mind is in observer state. I tend to think they are not my imagination. I don't fear them. I try to communicate. They run from me... If you need it, try to concentrate inside. Center yourself... Balance your mind. Let fear go away... There is no fear, fear is an illusion. It is expectation of something bad. Imagination can go and trap you into neverending circle... Find your core, feel the energy and let it shine...

[snoop]

Parasites are a necessary evil. If our growth were not stifled, we would become like a cancerous growth. If you subscribe to the belief that the astral plane is a thing, then this only makes sense. Humans are like biocomputer information collection and storage devices, for what is up for debate. "Higher vibrational beings", God, The All, what-have-you. Parasites and viruses are an elegant, yet distasteful solution to our very existence. Basically, in order to ensure "our" future or the future of existence, we must die.

[ThreeCat]

They are probably hallucinations. It's possible to feel pain in LDs, and this is probably a manifestation of underlying fears. The whole "I like your soul" seems rather ludicrous to me, as does the whole "end-of-days." Have you tried just generating positive energy and compassion towards these things? If they are LD phenomena, they will probably react well to that. Parasites are a necessary evil. If our growth were not stifled, we would become like a cancerous growth. If you subscribe to the belief that the astral plane is a thing, then this only makes sense. Humans are like biocomputer information collection and storage devices, for what is up for debate. "Higher vibrational beings", God, The All, what-have-you. Parasites and viruses are an elegant, yet distasteful solution to our very existence. Basically, in order to ensure "our" future or the future of existence, we must die. Cool. Any suggestions about what the OP should do, other than die?

[Psionik]

Parasites are a necessary evil. If our growth were not stifled, we would become like a cancerous growth. If you subscribe to the belief that the astral plane is a thing, then this only makes sense. Humans are like biocomputer information collection and storage devices, for what is up for debate. "Higher vibrational beings", God, The All, what-have-you. Parasites and viruses are an elegant, yet distasteful solution to our very existence. Basically, in order to ensure "our" future or the future of existence, we must die. Use the fire of your aura to burn them I didn't found parasites likes physical one, but there were incidents I was followed by dark cloud... and once I warded other sleeping person from one. For me- harmless. Never found anything what I couldn't overpower.

[CrimpJiggler]

It may be imagination, it may be real... If it was lucid dream then it was almost 100% imagination. If it was OBE... I'm not sure. There are things that persist even while your mind is in observer state. I tend to think they are not my imagination. I don't fear them. I try to communicate. They run from me... If you need it, try to concentrate inside. Center yourself... Balance your mind. Let fear go away... There is no fear, fear is an illusion. It is expectation of something bad. Imagination can go and trap you into neverending circle... Find your core, feel the energy and let it shine... Interesting. I tried to communicate with them for the first time the other night and the sleep paralysis abruptly ended. These things don't do anything scary to me, they're just a pain in the ass. Once a lucid dream (or OBE, I don't know how to tell them apart yet) started and I could still feel one of these things on me, it had its arms around me like it was hugging me. I turned around rapidly so I could catch it, I caught a glimpse of it before it vanished. It looked like a little black goblin thing. I got the impression it was started and scared when I turned around, its like it accidentally stuck around for a bit too long and was scared of me seeing it. snoop: Any idea why someone would be swarmed with way more than their fair share of these little bastards? I have serious issues with lethargy, had them for years now, its not natural since I'm only in my 20s. Don't know if theres a connection or not. If these things are parasites, they really seem to like me for some reason. Mosquitos really seem to like me too, I think theres a physical, biochemical cause for that. For astral parasites I'm guessing theres a spiritual cause. I was told by someone who claims to see auras that I have no aura. They said if they didn't see me moving, they'd think I'm deceased lol. If this is true, my guess is this is relaed to having no energy. I'm all for dying when the time is right, but its too early for that. Wanna make it to at least my 40s before I check out. But I suppose if you have to go, you have to go. The drowsiness has got so extreme that theres no point living unless I can cure it.So I'm ready to try anything to solve it. Maybe if I can find a way to get rid of these parasites, I'll have enough energy to live. I have a plan which should address the spiritual side as much as it will the physical. Iboga. ThreeCat: I didn't even tell you the ludicrous part. It said all this in poetry and a song. For the first part, the exact words were "I'm going to be with you until the end of days (maybe it said end of your life, I can't remember exactly), absorbing your energy from your 101 centers to my spherical orbs". The way it said it sounded like poetry. The second part was "because I really like your sooooouuuullll", it said that in a song, like a pun on the way they say "you got soul" and stuff like that in songs. It all sounded funny and made this spider, alien man thing seem likeable but getting the alien tenctacle tube thing drilled into my ass and skull wasn't as funny. Didn't feel right. I've got hemmhroids in my ass and had a headache in the exact spot it drilled into so I got the idea that these physical issues are a result of this thing damaging my astral body. Either that or the hallucinations were created in response to things I was feeling in those areas anyway. I haven't got any issues with my spine though and thats the area I feel these things most often.

[Baron Samedi]

You have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, like millions of people. I have had it for years also. What has helped me the most is doing The Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush. You can find the book online for free. As far as astral parasite, I hate the little bastards. To prevent them, I find the MerKaBah helps. Visualize a merkabah spinning, both pyramids in opposite directions, one blue, one green, then go inside it. If you find yourself infected, spin your dream or astral body. Calm your mind, and play music or sing. Engulfing yourself in flame to burn them off may work. They seem to hate harmonic vibrations. Then, summon violet flame to engulf thyself, and burn off any leftover ectoplasm.

[snoop]

Cool. Any suggestions about what the OP should do, other than die? See a doctor, meditate, possibly seek medication, and continue living until his time comes to die? I figured this much was obvious and went without saying. Sorry if it wasn't. OP, I suggest you seek professional help now that you have spoken to others about it and there don't seem to be any immediate solutions to your predicament.

[CrimpJiggler]

You have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, like millions of people. I have had it for years also. What has helped me the most is doing The Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush. You can find the book online for free. As far as astral parasite, I hate the little bastards. To prevent them, I find the MerKaBah helps. Visualize a merkabah spinning, both pyramids in opposite directions, one blue, one green, then go inside it. If you find yourself infected, spin your dream or astral body. Calm your mind, and play music or sing. Engulfing yourself in flame to burn them off may work. They seem to hate harmonic vibrations. Then, summon violet flame to engulf thyself, and burn off any leftover ectoplasm. Thanks a lot! Your whole reply consisted entirely of useful info and suggestions, nice one. I remember your username from a dream walking thread you made a good while ago. Since you're adept enough to do that kinda thing, I take it you know a thing or two. I read about a spiritual protection method on another forum in which you visualise a green tetrahedron surrounding you, I take it this comes from the merkabah. I read about the merkabah in the past with respect to travel, I wonder if visualising it can get me out of this immobility I sometimes find myself with in OBEs. I'm gonna do that liver fluash. Something which has helped me a bit is Amazonian tree frog venom. It causes the organs to release toxins which makes you ill for 20 minutes or so, causing you to vomit out the contents of your stomach, after which you feel great. The name of the frog is phyllomedusa bicolor. I was physically attacked by something invisible a few months ago while I was wide awake. I was pretty much pinned down to a chair while it drove something into my chest area. It was the first hardcore paranormal experience I've ever had. It felt a lot like a sleep paralysis hallucination. See a doctor, meditate, possibly seek medication, and continue living until his time comes to die? I figured this much was obvious and went without saying. Sorry if it wasn't. OP, I suggest you seek professional help now that you have spoken to others about it and there don't seem to be any immediate solutions to your predicament. What would a doctor do to help? I'm a chemist with a strong background in pharmacology, when a doctor doesn't understand something, all they can do is prescribe medication. 90% of the time I have to tell doctors what medication to prescribe me and have to explain the pharmacological reasoning behind it before they'll prescribe it. If I had tape worm, I'd go the medication route but they don't make medication for astral parasites. Not yet anyway, maybe some day they'll start prescribing ibogaine. As for covering the symptoms, I went that route and was on dexedrine for 4 years. Not much good that did me. Its like taking morphine for a broken leg, it might remedy the pain temporarily but unless you set the bone straight, you're still gonna have a broken leg when it wears off and unfortunately drugs don't remain effective indefinitely, they lose their therapeutic effects with chronic use. As much as I'd like to drug myself up and die at around 30, I can't die that early so I need to find a way to manage this stuff in the meantime. Do you even have experience with astral parasites? Where do you get this "knowledge" that their sole function is to inhibit the growth of humans? I could argue against that by saying their real function is to distract the mind so that leprechauns can sneak into your house to steal your lucky charms. I wouldn't though because the fact is I don't know, if I did I'd explain what lead me to believe that.

[snoop]

When I suggested a doctor, I was thinking more along the lines of a psychiatrist. Medication could still help, you never know. However, doing nothing is making you miserable and you shooting down all of my ideas isn't helping things. Give things a try, have a little faith. Things may seem hopeless, but giving up is not an option. You deserve relief, so you should work to achieve that goal.

[CrimpJiggler]

I edited my post to explain things better. I've tried medication. I spent 3 months at a Buddhist monastery so I gave meditation a try. Anything that seems obvious, I've likely tried it. They don't even prescribe medication for general lethargy, it was a different ailment I got prescribed stimulants for. I've tried every class of med the average person could think of. Starting this thread is an obvious indication I haven't given up. I shot down your ideas because I get the impression you've got no intention of helping, you just posted your "suggestions" in response to someone calling you out. Seems like you were talking about something you don't understand. Meds might help, but they might also make things much worse. Thats what they did for me. Helped temporarily, made things much worse in the long term. By long term I mean after 4 years total, now I have to recover from the damage done by the meds in addition to solving the problem I used them for. Not only is that not helpful to anyone, its counterproductive since you might send them down the wrong path if they don't know any better. If you were more informed, you'd know that unless the medication can address the root cause (like antiparasitics), then it is only a temporary remedy for the symptoms which makes things worse in the long run. I'll find a solution or die trying, either way its all good. A temporary remedies better than no remedy so I'm still testing out meds, the next one I wanna try is memantine which is a partial NMDA antagonist but I think I'll have to pay the money to see a psychiatrist cuz GPs won't prescribe it. For permanent solutions, pharmaceutical companies and the GPs and psychiatrists who sell their product aren't in the business of providing them, they likely play a hidden role in having them banned. Ibogaine looks promising.

[Psionik]

I don't think medication will help. You are talking about noncorporal thing. Body, and medicine is physical. Maybe that medicine can dampen your ability to feel it, but if it is there, it will remain there. If I had something like that I would try to get rid of it from astral. One could debate about reality of astral travel, being out of body or at least send your virtual body(in reality it would be like remote viewing)... If OBE is made only by chemistry, and there is only brain chemistry(and thought process) then medication is a way... I have small indication that this is not the case, that i see sometimes pieces of physical world. Tuesday morning one of my dreams(I had about week before) came partially true... Partially. Because in that dream I chose to made sidestep around awkward situation, and in reality I had chosen to live it through(I was curious how will be situation concluded). I think, dreams and OBE collides a little, there is some small connection, but so much imagination and so small consciousness in comparison to waking life that vision is deformed. If I had LD or even better OBE, vision would be more exact. And if I had lucidity(LD or OBE) I wouldn't chicken out from situation but observe it fully.... maybe even try to live it a few times in row differently.

[CrimpJiggler]

In Amazonian shamanism they use all kinds of substances for spiritual things including OBEs. The kinda substances they use aren't substances any western doctor would prescribe though.

[Psionik]

OK. If you dampen your senses by medication, then you can do OBE much more faster and more simple. But if that medication dampens not only your senses but also your mind, then you will have hallucination. I prefer my own relaxation and concentration techniques, I think independency from drugs is precious thing, and maybe I'm also much stronger(psychically) this way.

[Dreamzilla]

You could try psionics. Psionic abilities are much more effective in dream state or daydream state than irl. Learning to work with psi, mostly through the psionguild and personal exploration has def come in handy vs astral critters and other things, moreso on dream state. Astral critters are for sure real, i have personally crafted many constructs through the use of psi, as have many in the psion or similar communities. Most of these are not harmful but as a rule most ppl try not release anything potentially dangerous into the wild, though it does happen. Personally i think if there is a creature simply feeding to survive and not out to get you then this is very poor programming and one way i have personally dealt with wild parasites in the past is to fix their coding to where they can self sustain themselves using an energy generator system and without needing to vamp people. The omnimancy group specializes in creating and programming constructs through direct psi manipulation, though other groups also create constructs through various energy manipulation systems. The reason i find psi not very useful for irl is that it is a very light energy and hard to make dense enough to affect the world through PK. It could take a lifetime just to make a pen roll around on a desk with your mind. But combined with the dream state it becomes much more easily manipulated, generated, and dense enough to affect astral critters. Am i allowed to post link to psionguild resources here? I'll just post a small section of 1 of their defence articals for now. And can post other related links dealing with this issue if this forum allows it. How To Defend Against A Vamp Attack Preventing a vamp attack can be somewhat difficult, as most shields can be drained as easily as a person’s field, and once reduced, break easily. However, if you design your shield to ward off attaching links, this can make it much more difficult for a person to link to your shield in order to vamp it. A “slippery”, or sharp cutting surface are two possibilities. Most vamp attacks are conducted by people who are actually after your energy, rather than using it as a tool in combat. These attacks can usually be warded off simply by pulling energy back down their link…the ensuing struggle isn’t comfortable, and in the vast majority of cases the vamp will cease the attempt and look for easier prey. If you happen to be stronger than they are, reducing their own level dramatically seems a suitable “lesson” to teach them. A persistent vamp attack in a psychic combat situation can be dealt with by overloading the vamp….rather than sending a large quantity of energy down, which they may be able to capacitate, instead send the energy in alternating very large and very small quantities, alternating with great speed. This rapid change in quantity may often overwhelm their own speed in adjusting to the energy flow, thus creating an overload effect based on speed rather than sheer quantity–the effect is the same, to shock their energy channels. Another interesting way to deal with a vamp attack is to create an offshoot link from the line they are using to draw energy, and hook this offshoot up to a ley line. Blocking the link at your end, open the link to the ley line wide, and watch the reaction. If you want to drive the point home particularly hard, HOLD the link when they attempt to break free. It’s important to block your end firmly, so as not to have your own system inundated by earth energy.

[Psionik]

A persistent vamp attack in a psychic combat situation can be dealt with by overloading the vamp….rather than sending a large quantity of energy down, which they may be able to capacitate, instead send the energy in alternating very large and very small quantities, alternating with great speed. This rapid change in quantity may often overwhelm their own speed in adjusting to the energy flow, thus creating an overload effect based on speed rather than sheer quantity–the effect is the same, to shock their energy channels. This I can confirm I did it in astral instinctively(as everything)... it was spectacular.

[Dreamzilla]

It could also be that you have a more physical problem, often times irl pain can influence and be exaggerated by both dreams and SP. Has happened to me plenty of times, tootheache, broken finger, bad headache, ect. Heck even just rolling on my side and having my arm fall asleep has resulted in things like snakes biting into my arm or something. Its possible though rare to encounter a serious parasite problem, though often when it does happen it is the result of feeding a small problem and allowing it to grow more and more serious over time. Also, the lack of intelligence and botlike qualities you describe does sound like it could be a rogue manmade energy construct that somehow got out of hand. I could link some good basic defense articles to help deal with these problems if you are interested. Perhaps in pm if not allowed to link in the forum.

[CrimpJiggler]

OK. If you dampen your senses by medication, then you can do OBE much more faster and more simple. But if that medication dampens not only your senses but also your mind, then you will have hallucination. I prefer my own relaxation and concentration techniques, I think independency from drugs is precious thing, and maybe I'm also much stronger(psychically) this way. Independency from drugs is a precious thing, thats for sure. I never needed drugs to explore OBEs or anything like that but I started using meds to remedy this drowsiness thing and now I'm in a mess. I quit everything and while the withdrawals aren't that bad, this drowsiness has come back with a vengeance to the point that I feel like all I can do is eat, sleep and sit on a chair. I've been going back on the meds for a day at a time every now and again for a break from this but they don't even help that much at all. The way I see it, addictive substances are anti spiritual, anti addictive substances are anti spiritual. Psychedelics tend to be anti addictive. I guarantee you they don't dampen the senses. Quite the opposite. They make one aware of all kinds of things they wouldn't perceive or notice in their everyday waking state. Since I started using benzodiazepines, I stopped getting sleep paralysis and spontaneous lucid dreams anywhere near as frequently. Thats one of the anti-spiritual class of substance, no doubt. The majority of the spiritual ones are outright banned and viewed as having no medical use which is absurd considering psychedelic therapy is so well documented.

[CrimpJiggler]

It could also be that you have a more physical problem, often times irl pain can influence and be exaggerated by both dreams and SP. Has happened to me plenty of times, tootheache, broken finger, bad headache, ect. Heck even just rolling on my side and having my arm fall asleep has resulted in things like snakes biting into my arm or something. Its possible though rare to encounter a serious parasite problem, though often when it does happen it is the result of feeding a small problem and allowing it to grow more and more serious over time. Also, the lack of intelligence and botlike qualities you describe does sound like it could be a rogue manmade energy construct that somehow got out of hand. I could link some good basic defense articles to help deal with these problems if you are interested. Perhaps in pm if not allowed to link in the forum. Yeah that might be it. I could feel something messing with my ear, the next day I had an ear infection. I could feel this ear infection coming on well before it got painful, I knew it was there when I was in SP. Have you experimented with this psionics thing with people? As in, see if you can send a construct to a friend who lucid dreams/astral travels regularly?

[Dreamzilla]

Yeah that might be it. I could feel something messing with my ear, the next day I had an ear infection. I could feel this ear infection coming on well before it got painful, I knew it was there when I was in SP. Have you experimented with this psionics thing with people? As in, see if you can send a construct to a friend who lucid dreams/astral travels regularly? I could send constructs yes, though i wouldn't be the guy to ask to directly fix your problem. Construct creation is what i'm good at, but my focus with constructs is primarily on programming and working in the dream state. I use some constructs irl but they are very light and not very useful for affecting things other than energy. Irl i am not very skilled at detecting/analyzing other people's constructs. I know some people who could scan you to see what is going on, and people who could maybe help fix any issues fixeable through psionics, but personally all i can really do is link you elsewhere. If you learn basic psionic defense you should likely be able to deal with the problem yourself though if the problem isn't a physical one better dealt with by a doctor. I have had around 16 years of experience working with psionics, but very rarely for any useful irl application. I just focused on what i was good at and primarily applied it to my own system for dream control. Spent around 3-4 years practicing with the guild before i left to forge my own path so i am mostly self taught.

[HoldOrFold]

Get a copy of Practical Psychic Self Defense by Robert Bruce. You'll understand everything after reading that.

[Dthoughts]

Hey, first of all thanks for making this thread. I like all the suggestions from members of the board thus far. I was hoping to find people to talk with about Astral Parasites since I have been having my own problems lately. It is just sometimes such an awkward topic to talk about since it is surrounded by mysticism, fantasies and paranoia. I myself am guilty of all 3. So that makes it a hard one to really analyze. It gets even harder when it happening to you in the present is also affecting your general well-being. The immediacy of these kinds of situations call for urgent solutions and can thus cause panic and paranoia which in turn can make things spiral out of control rather quickly. On a non-personal level I think it is an interesting topic to dance around with. Everyone, myself included has rooted ideas and convictions about what is and is not which may make it harder to discuss since sometimes these ideas are not always able to coexist. Snoop's explanation is a good example of this because it states that "Astral parasites" are a necessary solution to the human condition. While others may think that the human condition is supposed to overcome these hickups and thrive as a species. Anywhoo... I have some ideas about what may or may not be causes and possible solutions. Another motivator me to discuss them with you is that you seem to be open to every kind of explanation and don't rule anything out in advance. This is helpful to me, I consider myself a mystic and a scientist. So we both seem to bordering in the middle ground and the most important thing is to find truths and solutions. Although, I do get excited about the fact that we are basically being shamans by trying to find solutions and work with it. So first things first. I vibe with your hallucinations that include spinal invaders. I have found parasites in the same kind of places and are usually felt invading spinal areas and sucking energy out of me. It is not limited to spinal sensations, however. But one extreme example has been included with audial hallucinations of 'burglars' outside my window and seeing shadow figures enter from the window to then enter my lower back and a strong sense of 'evil'/'something is wrong'. This sense seems to be present whenever I become aware of leechers. I think the real danger is when this sense is not present which in turn makes you suceptible to all sorts of abuse. Said 'evil' in this case I was talking about earlier seemed to be sucking all sense of vitality and happiness out of me and produced intense feelings of guilt,misery,fear for an intense but very short time. I felt absolutely drained and was very tired after. Making strong confident roars has been helpful to reasess myself and helped to remove all sense of negativity and danger. The moments proceeded with me desperately trying to clean the space but it felt like a futile and superstitious thing to do. I seem do this more often. My inner guidance tells me that it is mostly an inside thing. The following week I was unexplainably ill which I suppose made it a very successful albeit short attack. The week thereafter I experienced an exorcism of sorts. Which came unexpected, but an astral snake-like creature was felt moving through my spine all the way up to my mouth and then eaten by another bigger entity.. Said snake seemed sentient and I even developped compassionate feelings towards it. I have been told by spirits and have compelled myself to do automatic writing which eventually shows a drawing of a hole in my lower back. The spirits accompanied have said that to them it looks like a gaping hole. And is inviting to creatures to rape and basically looks almost like an open butthole or something. The cause of this hole was said to be my position while lying in bed and sitting on my chair. Lying on my tummy makes me more suceptible to attacks while lying straight as a plank reduces this possibility. A certain trick I learned that has proven to be genuinely useful in multiple situations was to position my body in such a way that spirits glide off and can't attach to my body. It is a straight position in bed, knees up, feet firmly on the bed and arms/hands toward the ears. As if flexing off ur muscles. Different angles to hold my hands, like towards the ceiling or towards the ears produces slightly different effects. I have seen similar positions in ancient Tibetan Yoga forms presented as a way of cleansing the body from demons. I strongly suggest you give it a try when you have these hallucinations while you are normally lying on your back. You can see for yourself if it changes the hallucinations in any way shape or form. Which brings me to my next point. Yoga.. I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread. But a possible cause and maybe even an explanation for fatigue and the whole draining aspect of it is a physical one. There are all sorts of poisons and foreign organisms and substances that drain the body for all we know, the body may be sending signals to the brain and presenting them as hallucinations of parasites. I think a good way to remove poison chemicals and blocks in blood barrier,lymphe system, nervous system is by stretching and atrophying muscles and doing breathing exercise during this. It is hard especially when fatigued but ultimately a very useful thing for numerous reasons, and can be gradually worked at from time to time. No need to overdo it. I think it's a good way to boost the immune system. Also, sexual fluids are an important aspect in all this. And might be related to ur fatigue. I suspect that drainage experienced from parasites and what they are after are sexual fluids. And what I mean by sexual fluids is Svadhishthana energy/perhaps Chi (Anyone?). Not sure if bodily fluids or Svadhishthana are one in the same thing. Although, I do suspect that tonic herbs are able to boost this system. Being drained of this fluid is a dangerous thing atleast in a psychological level and I suspect makes it harder if not impossible to wild or go obe. Here's an Idea that comes out of the blue and hardly related but may be this Fluid is our 'energy body' that we inhabit during astral travel. This may explain why parasites attach to us and seemingly suck out our fluids (Which I suppose they are after, Illustrated by an experience i had yesterday that I will share later). This fluid may be useful for them to grow their astral bodies and basically functions as food for astral entities. All just playful speculation ofcourse. Had more to type. But getting tired, so may come back for more

[Dreamzilla]

Avoid fluoride best you can.. pure poison.

[Psionik]

DThoughts thats many thing to think about... Fortunately it is much simpler. I did OBE for about 15 years till I found internet and things on it about OBE. I called it The Walk. now I have nearly 30 years of experiences and experimentations behind me. -There were concerns about thunderstorms, strong wind and similar - they are irrelevant. People who are in fear from those extreme weather may live their fear materialized while OBEing. I was hit more than 3 times by lightning while out of body without harmful effects. It is even possible to charge from lightning, but I feel that it is an imagined charging... believing in that may give you energy... but it is a weak form, full concentration is better. -Concerns about positioning of body- irrelevant. If you strongly believe that north orientation is good it will help you. But it will help you even if you are orientated to other point of compass but you think you are orientated to north. -Things around sexuality... Biggest problems while teenager by me. It was quite hard to stay focused to ignore body arousal sometimes... Mind over matter Nice sentence, seems easy, but for young male like I was at the time, it was uphill battle. I have quite strong imagination, there lies problem. It was easy to imagine. It is not the sex(or even auto-erotism), that can give or take your energy, it is about power of your concentration. Even totally weak and weary body is no problem if your mind is strong. I had a few sexual encounters while out of body(even if real one needed to wait till I was 26 years old ) and I didn't found any effect on astral body, no exhaustion, no energy gain... Only messy ending while catapulted back to body because of explosion of emotions. Restart of OBE was possible afterwards. "Fluids" are only matter. Nothing important for travel. I leave matter while going out of body. There is connection to body(immaterial... and there is no visible or felt rope) which allows me to feel partially my body. Only weakly though, I dim the feelings from my body at start of exercise. I stopped to try to initiate sex soon, because in astral there are better things to do. For example standing still and observe small things around myself. To feel time stream. To feel energy flowing through my body and around it... to see aura and experiment with its intensity(I tried to change colour... I can't do it, it seems)... to concentrate it or expand it... even used it as passive weapon or light source. Really usefull. To float around... to walk around... Much better than short sexual encounter. Once (~20 years ago) I was married in astral by monk(looking like taoist) to oriental looking girl(I would say Japan, Korean or Chinese... she was in pristine white kimono) named Essika Majiko (phonetically- I'm slovak, I don't know how to write the sound in english). It was spiritually clean feeling, I felt very good close to her, even if there was no sexual encounter... It is pity I never met her again. Was it symbolic? I don't know. I met young chinese woman less than year ago in one of their stores. She resembles her somehow... Everytime we see each other she initiates conversation... Intriguing. I will not initiate conversation on this theme. I will let it happen spontaneously. It may or needn't be her even if there is physical resemblance. -Illness was argument against doing an OBE many times... The fear, that you are in risk of dying because of that... Again... no problems. I had and have depressions for looooong time. I was ready to die even was looking for it while doing OBE. I would prefer to die while out of body. Nothing happened till now If something, separation while in fever even high fever is much simpler... Asthmatic attack can make separation simplier... I think it can have also therapeutic effect, because your body relax deeply, your muscles are going to loosen more, your oxygen consumption lowers itself... -Problem is, I see in astral mainly non living matter, and plants... Beings are scarce, animals nearly non existent. Thing is even if the beings are scarce it seems they are fearing me. Why, I don't look out of ordinary. I would say, my aura also doesn't look that threateningly, when I concentrate to see it , it is blue to violet, from dull to actinic bright depending on concentration. I saw aura of my friend once and it was warm yellow to orange. My wife I associate with cyan colour for some reason Back to beings... I see them sometimes afar... It looks like they are trying to avoid my proximity. I experienced two encounters with vampires... They were like automatons, semi sentient. They didn't fear me. I destroyed their den(lair) near my village together with as many as I was able in short time. Second encounter was something like their try for retribution through energy deficient people (they took life energy from people and sent them after me). That people were hungry for energy and they run to take mine. I Used my energy and through concentration I pumped them full and rendered them to zombie like people (they stopped to attack, stopped to look for energy, stopped to act actively- I sometimes meet such people... my theory is that they are dreamers... not aware of world around of them, closed in their imagination). Last person attacked me was woman who I think is something more to me. She caused my concentration to slip... I wasn't able to act. I tried to help her but I was losing anchors in astral world and was dragged back to body. I blinked in and out of existence there... and she used it to bite me in the neck. I saw myself also from outside point of view. It looked like her bite opened my neck only to very, very strong light poured out of it, like I was full of energy. I didn't feel any leakage of energy. But that woman was so over energized she turned to something angelic, shining... we chatted then, I don't remember the theme. As I wrote sooner, there were a few encounters with black cloud, which shrank away from my aura... I tried to call some astral master, being living in astral to learn something from him/her. Only once there appeared an old, mad looking man... He looked at me, started to cackle madly and run away I met devils a few times... No problems with them. They fear me when in concentrated state, unattached mind, observer. Well I reconcentrated and balanced my mind, reinforced unattached state of mind and my aura started to shine brightly. There may lay their fear. I use it on everything that is disturbing peace around me. - I never felt anything unusual around my spine...Sometimes I feel something like light touches before and during separation, small changes of temperature, or something like gliding on my face... After separation, there is nothing. I'm all alone. If there is something I hear, I try to go after sound, but there is nothing there... The feels like sucking of happiness the feel of guilt, misery, fear is hard to feel while unattached To stabilize The Walk for longer time it is necessary to leave it behind. To change state of mind. There is no place left for fear to grow. One of first touches with walk out of body I was stopped briefly with black dog sitting on me... wild looking, long bristled hairs were alight by dark blue static energy. It was soundlessly barking at me and trying to scare me. I lost concentration and was thrown back. My concentration was weak at the time... It took me a few years till I found the way, how to stabilize OBE. Never ever met it again though. -I tried some 15 years ago travel with help of cleanse rituals but it was for naught... It doesn't help at all. All I need is unattached observer state, balanced mind with no thoughts. I use feeling and intuition instead. I was attending meeting with woman who told us that she will teach us to travel... I hoped I will find more efficient way to travel. I have feeling that that instructor was biased... On one hand she told us to be critical to what we experience which is for me natural, on other side she threw me out of group because I was "disrupting element" because of all the same asked point of view... I used to point some weak places in technique we were asked to follow. (I wasn't attacking, or disregarding experiences of others in group... more like trying to help. Because I had experiences, they had problems to have them) - I don't have much experience with yoga. My body wasn't OK with asanas other than savasana... And I found autogenic training soon and to be vastly superior for my needs.

[mowglycdb]

CrimpJiggler, usually fatigue has to do with, lack of activity, poor nutrition, low testorone level if you're a guy, problems with your thyriod gland, mild anemia, insulin resistance, low capacity to digest a specific vitamin due to damaged stomach (for example not being able to process vitamin B12). Now on a spiritual level, I think that keeping your conciouness too open to what's happening on the other side can be energy tolling. Specially if you have company of some other being in your concious domains... Usually some of those beings can impersonate your desirees, to feed upon your energy or get closer to this side. If you have another being with you, I'd start doubting him/her if you've had this problem for a long time, he/she maybe leaving the door open for parasites to come. You can use your "vital energy" "spiritual energy" or whatever you may call it, to do a lot of things but if you forget about vigorizing your body, you'll feel drained, ofcourse your body will function equally if you don't do this, but how you feel, may prompt you to only sleep (shut your conciousness down) to rest.