Thread: quantum jumping???

well, commonly when returning from a astral experience, you can view the room before you enter your physical body, this will allow you to make observations, such as the clock(3rd eye sight) Lucid may allow you control, but you are actually just being silly in a world you control...Astral can control, but will commonly choose the observer. Where you have full access to open doors long closed(Akashic Records.) It is also in question of what state of consciousness you really are in... Did you experience it before you woke up(This determines your exposure into that state of mind) Meaning, you are not likely to go astral if you meditate or just after you fall asleep. But only after other deeper states of consciousness have taken the place of Alpha... Say gamma....So instead of lucid, which is alpha-theta... Astral may be gamma-theta. A definative state of higher consciousness. In this state there is commonly one main goal, This is for self improvement & finding answers(kundalini). Not making light sabers & cutting off dragons heads. Alot of signals cant be interpreted by the awake mind, but your subconscious can hear a broad band of waves we dont. You cant hear delta waves with the human ear, but an intuned mind still accepts these signals, Where the other 80% of the world deny these waves. So these people will always think its fake.

Science has been sweeping this under the carpet for years, so why are you at a dream sight when you dont believe your dreams have any influence in the physical??? I cant give you special powers to prove it, you have to KNOW they are true. Believing will only prove to be more elusive in your quest. When i see the future in a dream, I wonder why the whole world is ignorant about it. I may not be good enough to prove it, but i KNOW. I know that seeing something before it happens is just oxymoron to say its delusion, when it hasnt happened yet. Infact it would imply that the physical is the delusion, since the dream happened first.

But i cant make others see unless they uncover their eyes.
Why am i hear??? to share my knowledge on the dream world & find answers that scientists are to immature to take on. We want to know why we are different & why the rest of the world wont accept it... Really makes me rip my hair out honestly. I think maybe the others dont have developed brains or something. But insulting the world wont get me the answers i'm looking for. So i must be patient & dilligent at the same time.

I unfortunately am not a parapsychologist or physicist, so most of what i say is interpretations on the unknown. I hope to gain more insight as i may learn from others with the same situation as me...still looking.

Originally Posted by Dreamsayer

well, commonly when returning from a astral experience, you can view the room before you enter your physical body, this will allow you to make observations, such as the clock(3rd eye sight) Lucid may allow you control, but you are actually just being silly in a world you control...Astral can control, but will commonly choose the observer. Where you have full access to open doors long closed(Akashic Records.) It is also in question of what state of consciousness you really are in... Did you experience it before you woke up(This determines your exposure into that state of mind) Meaning, you are not likely to go astral if you meditate or just after you fall asleep. But only after other deeper states of consciousness have taken the place of Alpha... Say gamma....So instead of lucid, which is alpha-theta... Astral may be gamma-theta. A definative state of higher consciousness. In this state there is commonly one main goal, This is for self improvement & finding answers(kundalini). Not making light sabers & cutting off dragons heads. Alot of signals cant be interpreted by the awake mind, but your subconscious can hear a broad band of waves we dont. You cant hear delta waves with the human ear, but an intuned mind still accepts these signals, Where the other 80% of the world deny these waves. So these people will always think its fake.

Science has been sweeping this under the carpet for years, so why are you at a dream sight when you dont believe your dreams have any influence in the physical??? I cant give you special powers to prove it, you have to KNOW they are true. Believing will only prove to be more elusive in your quest. When i see the future in a dream, I wonder why the whole world is ignorant about it. I may not be good enough to prove it, but i KNOW. I know that seeing something before it happens is just oxymoron to say its delusion, when it hasnt happened yet. Infact it would imply that the physical is the delusion, since the dream happened first.

But i cant make others see unless they uncover their eyes.
Why am i hear??? to share my knowledge on the dream world & find answers that scientists are to immature to take on. We want to know why we are different & why the rest of the world wont accept it... Really makes me rip my hair out honestly. I think maybe the others dont have developed brains or something. But insulting the world wont get me the answers i'm looking for. So i must be patient & dilligent at the same time.

I unfortunately am not a parapsychologist or physicist, so most of what i say is interpretations on the unknown. I hope to gain more insight as i may learn from others with the same situation as me...still looking.

How do you do Astral Projection. I'd just like to know so when I'm really good at lucid dreaming and related things, i could start trying this out and see for myself its relevent to me or not.

Dreamsayer, you haven't actually addressed any of my questions. You have continued making unsupported assertions, and have denigrated science as immature and unenlightened, but have done nothing to offer me reasons to accept your claims as anything other than wish-thinking.

In other words, don't just explain the "rules" of astral projection, tell me why I should think it's real in the first place.

Originally Posted by OP

quantum jumping???

LOL

I cant prove it. But it is possible that the mind is coming out of delta. or long exposures to a blackscreen. For me, it only happens toward the end of sleep. I think many scientists are fooled into believing it has something to do with DMT, when its not. I also have experienced it more frequent, when before you fall asleep, your mind becomes acceptant of subconscious signals...This is where you can still hear noises in the real world while your body is asleep. But only because hearing these sounds are related to what your conscious mind will accept. I describe these sounds as slipping out of density, because they sound as if they are being sucked into a world without density. So they dissipate into a broader frequency band & are obsorbed. I dont know many people that have experienced this, yet it happens to me alot... I think this may be a key to figuring it out. I think it is these waves that allow for you to accept signals into your conscious world. I call them clairaudient resonance, though i have seen no studies on this phenomenon. Put quite simply, some people have it, some dont. Its a little hard to debate an issue like this, when just about anything we cant prove gets thrown up on that dusty shelf called mysticism, but i call it Psi.
I do however know when they have done studies of precognition they recorded alpha waves bleeding in(like an observer) & large spikes of gamma(maybe the future), sometimes for long periods of time. They have also proved everyone has a prewarning(precognitive) in response to pictures right before they are shown...& this is with people that show no profound abilities, so clearly precognition should be where scientists research. They have had numerous tests in remote viewing, which in a way can tell where your personal frequency is at in a wake state. I have found that my range in the waking state is in color. I may not be able to pick up the cursed boat pictures, but i always get the colors right.. Some may see shapes,sounds,smells,tastes..etc.

I imply that scientists are not being grown up about it, because they dont even try to get intuned patients, they use the one element in all their tests that dissprove any results... Its simple, if someone is experiencing precognition, they are only remembering it, because it profoundly stands out. This can be better achieved by making synchronicity a part of your life(going to bed the same time,seeing the same people,daily behavior) For example: if you dream about cards with pictures on them everynight, where does that leave your test results, when everything is repetitiously performed. If i see a card with a picture of a square on it 6 times in a dream, how is this going to effect the results... It just becomes confusing & proves nothing. If they want to see results they have to span it accross a months time, where say you only see one card per week. So if you pick square everytime, you still lose, because these tests start at 24 cards. Now you tell me why highly trained scientists cant put that one together. I mean anyone who stops to think would know that synchronicity as a method for proving Psi is self defeating a person who lives in synchronicity...It all washes out as the same event as each card is displayed.
But six years of education is to exspensive to waste on a long shot, which leads to being shunned from the science community & basically ruins your career. So if you spent thousands of dollars to believe one thing, you may kill just to survive. Thats what scientists are trying to force feed you, whatever they had to pay big money to program themselves to believe. They are NOT going to back down. Even if its wrong. Thats why it was rediculous to believe the Earth was round, it could cost you your head, as it does in many ways today. But we now know the Earth is a sphere. We still have war mongering tyrants trying to control the world, so today is no different than yesterday.
Reece Jones on youtube has some research in lucid & astral you should check out.
I believe if you wake yourself up incrementally before your actual waking time & dont hardly move & go back to sleep, astral is more frequent. The trick is to try to not move & use a egg timer of sorts that can have multiple programming. & extend each wakeup by 5 minutes(also hands off is the best) a timer that just beeps everytime will allow you to just dose off instead of moving to hit the snooze, plus your mind records the increments, so a alarm clock doesnt work.

Originally Posted by moonshine

I have none.

Fixed.

Originally Posted by Beeyahoi

Fixed.

It's irrelevant though. If there's no proof OOBEs and such are not dream-phenomena, then there's no reason or need to prove they are.

If someone makes a supernatural claim, the burden of proof lies with that person. This is specially true because supernatural claims are impossible to prove false.

Originally Posted by Beeyahoi

Fixed.

LOL. Nice try, but a trite fallacious fantasy.

The salient point remains.
Every single bit of evidence the "travellers" can provide for astral travelling/OBEs, can equally be attributed to normal dream mechanisms.

Karmic Vibrations=sleep paralysis.
Astral Induction = Wild
OBE = Sleep paralysis & conscious rem Entry.
See your self in bed = dream
Ghostly hands = dream
White tether = dream
OBE merging into Astral Plane = False awakening dream
Visiting the great white ball of light all the other astral travellers tell you to visit = dream
Any other boowlshoot you can come up with = dream.
Need I go on?

By all means, keep kidding yourself, but please don't pretend you're applying any logic to the situation.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Karmic Vibrations=sleep paralysis.

One thing that gets me...is these darn vibrations. Is there any scientific evidence/theories as to what exactly causes the sensation of vibration? I mean it's so incredibly distinctive, plus I've found that I can actually control the vibrations and move them or focus them to different places in my body. This is one of those things that I have trouble explaining because I don't really understand, and have not read anything which explains why we experience these vibrations. I mean, the only thing I could possibly compare it to is pins and needles...however...pins and needles is completely different. It is not a vibration that comes in waves like experienced during SP?

I agree with you for the most part although I truly dislike your approach to the subject and people discussing it, none of it can be proven one way or the other however no matter how much you say it has been proven not to exist. It hasn't. I don't think people can prove that OBEs are real, and I do not think people can prove that they are not real. Therefore I am open to entertaining the belief, but that's really about as far as it goes for me for now. I also think that a lot of the experiences (most of them) are merely just different types of dreams and are often confused with something mystical. But at the same time, I will not call people foolish or judge them for thinking such things...because when you first experience them...it truly does feel like something mystical. After you've had awhile to process the information, do some research, and really think about it...you start to think that you're probably making it into something more than what it is.

Well actually, in the case of Etheric Projection, you could prove it doesn't exist, or at least that a person can or can't do it. In Etheric Projection a shadow of the body goes along with the soul, so the projected can be seen in a ghostly form.

I've forgotten what was going on in this thread but I think I read that the last posts were about if OBEs existed or not.

In the last 2 weeks or less, I've felt 2 or 3 sleep paralysis. I'm not sure about the 3rd one... Actually, neiter about the 2nd one but in these three experiences which were closeley related to sleep paralysis, I would first get the feeling of leaving my body. Then, I would get use to the feeling and it would keep being weird but I knew I was in a sleep paralysis. Anyways, this is all to say that OBEs, since they most of the time happen in WILDs in which you go through sleep paralysis, when experiencing an OBE or Astral projection the person experiencing it might think that the feeling of leaving your body is something other than the sleep paralysis and then entering a dream.

Originally Posted by moonshine

LOL. Nice try, but a trite fallacious fantasy.

The salient point remains.
Every single bit of evidence the "travellers" can provide for astral travelling/OBEs, can equally be attributed to normal dream mechanisms.

Karmic Vibrations=sleep paralysis.
Astral Induction = Wild
OBE = Sleep paralysis & conscious rem Entry.
See your self in bed = dream
Ghostly hands = dream
White tether = dream
OBE merging into Astral Plane = False awakening dream
Visiting the great white ball of light all the other astral travellers tell you to visit = dream
Any other boowlshoot you can come up with = dream.
Need I go on?

By all means, keep kidding yourself, but please don't pretend you're applying any logic to the situation.

I don't know where I stand on AP actually. I'm just saying that people who haven't experienced it (myself included) can't automatically dismiss it as a dream.

You said that all AP related phenomena are scientifically proven to be nothing more than REM sleep. "Hands = dream, seeing body = dream, etc..." isn't exactly science, it's your opinion/guess.

Originally Posted by Beeyahoi

You said that all AP related phenomena are scientifically proven to be nothing more than REM sleep.

Speaking for myself, I'm certainly not saying any such thing.

Originally Posted by Beeyahoi

"Hands = dream, seeing body = dream, etc..." isn't exactly science, it's your opinion/guess.

Science or not, it's hardly fair to call it a "guess." At a basic level, to argue for AP, or similar phenomenon, you are arguing against Occam's razor. It doesn't matter whether or not we can "prove" that those elements are merely dreams. The fact remains that they are easily explained as dreams. Therefore, the explanation of Astral Projection becomes burdensome, onerous, and awkward.

And since no one endeavoring to do this has demonstrated what I would consider a clear understanding of why Occam's Razor is taken seriously in the first place, their arguments are doomed before they begin.

Some people seem to be obsessed with occam's razor, do you shave yourself in the morning with it?

You must realize the majority of the world doesn't base it's life and everything they discuss after contemplating occam. You'd be better off explaining why he is "wrong" instead of going of on to a tangent about that tired old razor.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Some people seem to be obsessed with occam's razor, do you shave yourself in the morning with it?

You must realize the majority of the world doesn't base it's life and everything they discuss after contemplating occam.

Actually, the majority does.

After shaving in the morning you notice you have a small bleeding cut on your face; Do you assume the explanation to be that you accidentally made the cut while shaving, or that an invisible terrorist did it?

The majority of people when they cut themselves don't think about occams razor, whether they try to figure out the simplest answer or not..

Occams razor seems to be something people online love to just bring up.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

The majority of people when they cut themselves don't think about occams razor, whether they try to figure out the simplest answer or not..

Occams razor seems to be something people online love to just bring up.

Are you being thick on purpose?

It doesn't matter at all if people think of the term "occam's razor", what matters is that they apply the concept the term refers to. When two explanations have an equal amount of evidence (or equally lack evidence), the majority of people choose the simplest explanation.

I agree with DeathCell.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

I agree with DeathCell.

Glad someone understands, instead of trying to look intelligent and mentioning occams razor.. go to the trouble of explaining what is lacking!


Normal people don't talk about occams razor on a daily basis, I'm just saying.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Glad someone understands, instead of trying to look intelligent and mentioning occams razor.. go to the trouble of explaining what is lacking!

Normal people don't talk about occams razor on a daily basis, I'm just saying.

I know...it just seems like its trendy right now or something. Every damn subject about something like this someone comes in and is like...OMG OCCAM'S RAZOR!! /end discussion!

Reminds me of an internet meme or something. Plus I can't help but think that this Occam's Razor eliminates all creativity. How boring. Talk about "think inside the box".

I don't understand what Occam's razor is.

Originally Posted by Rainman

I don't understand what Occam's razor is.

http://www.skepdic.com/occam.html

People misuse it a lot. It seems that Occam's Razor can be applied to just about anything.

Ah, thanks. I'm still confused. Oh well. :O