Thread: 5000 year old WILD technique. Very easy, and very effective.

Just read this from The Light Project,
pretty cool:

"In a distant past our pineal gland used to be our third eye and, even more than an eye: a cosmic receiver and sender of multi-dimensional information.
The pineal gland is now a tiny gland in the centre of our brain, connected with all our senses and the rest of our body. Through the other senses it communicates with the outer world in electrical impulses.

"With its spectrum of hormones it regulates our state of consciousness, e.g. waking, sleeping, dreaming, various meditative states including those states in which we may have mystical experiences.
The mind and senses are paths for occult energies that work through various psychophysical centers or chakras, among the highest of which is the pineal gland.
These centres continue to develop as we evolve towards spirit.

So, while the third eye or pineal gland has certain physiological activities in conjunction with the pituitary gland - together they regulate the rhythms of metabolism and growth
- it is also the physical organ of intuition, inspiration, spiritual vision, and divine thought.
The pituitary gland is the thought receiver and the pineal gland, often called our true master gland, is the thought transmitter.



Surprisingly, if both eyes were removed and the anatomical path from the frontal area of this gland was exposed to light, this organ could still respond to stimulus in a similar manner as the lateral eyes.
This fact has some researchers considering whether the pineal gland is more than a degenerated eye. What if many of the still misunderstood processes of the brain reside in this small conical space?

ChaybaChayba, here comes the 1,000 Dollar question: Have you actually managed to successfully apply that technique?

Originally Posted by Ajna

[...], basically DMT is responsible for catalysing the separation of the mind from the body, be it for out of body experiences, when taking psychadelics (that contain DMT) and even at death or near death experiences.

You do know that the existence of endogenous DMT in the brain, especially the PG is an unproven speculation by Strassmann? It's a hypothesis, there has been no evidence so far.

Originally Posted by Abra

Furthermore, the correlation between melatonin and dreams has yet to be proven; all we know is that it promotes sleep.

All we know is that melatonin promotes sleep.. and sleep doesn't promote dreams? LOL.

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

ChaybaChayba, here comes the 1,000 Dollar question: Have you actually managed to successfully apply that technique?

Lol. Ok I guess lot's of people post techniques without trying them out? Well, I'm not one of them. I don't see the point in sharing a technique if it doesn't work :p hand over the 1,000 dollars!

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

You do know that the existence of endogenous DMT in the brain, especially the PG is an unproven speculation by Strassmann? It's a hypothesis, there has been no evidence so far.

Indeed, that's just speculation. But it's based on the fact that the chemical parts of which DMT is synthesized are also located in the pineal gland. It's not just a baseless speculation. If you know an article that shows that DMT is not produced in the pineal gland, link me up, I'd like to read it.

Originally Posted by DreamChaser

So the pineal gland looks like it's our "Dream Clitoris".
Lets stimulate it!

LOL! Too bad we can't reach in their with our fingers...

I'm probablyi wrong, but I seem to remember reading that our pineal gland has evolved to almost nothingness. We don't have rods or cones anymore. In birds and reptiles, their gland is closer to the surface of their skull/skin, so they use the pineal gland for light detection and regulation of their circadian rhythm (hence the melatonin). Ours is still in charge of controlling the melatonin, but it no longer detects light/dark on its own.

And the myth of the pineal gland producing DMT is still far from proven. It is just a hypothesis with no evidence.

Well, I tried it for half an hour and nothing happened.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I'm probablyi wrong, but I seem to remember reading that our pineal gland has evolved to almost nothingness. We don't have rods or cones anymore. In birds and reptiles, their gland is closer to the surface of their skull/skin, so they use the pineal gland for light detection and regulation of their circadian rhythm (hence the melatonin). Ours is still in charge of controlling the melatonin, but it no longer detects light/dark on its own.

And the myth of the pineal gland producing DMT is still far from proven. It is just a hypothesis with no evidence.

It is thought if we could move the gland to the front of our skull (so it was like where we thing the 3rd eye is, for eg), we could detect light and sounds with it, so a blind or deaf person could use it.
Go figure.

Just to clarify, when focusing awareness in the centre of your forehead its not an attempt to physically stimulate the Pineal glad in the centre of your brain, however it may be stimulated indirectly from the energy movement your awareness will create.

Focusing awareness and moving energy to your forehead stores energy in the form of raw psychic energy in your third eye chakra. This may lead to a WILD, assist dreaming later, lead to images in the minds eye etc etc. It should be remembered that the mind is really a non local phenomenon meaning that it DOESN'T obey the physical laws of three dimentional space and time and so it is irrelevant to postule where in the brain the 'mind' is located and therefore it isn't really the pineal. I think the Pineal gland however can act as a bridge, conduit or connection between the mind and the body...

As others have posted here they have more success focusing their awarness and hence energy in different areas. This probably changes the way the energy is moving and so since everyone is slightly different (even though we are all connected) the effects work in the way they need them to, to achieve whatever it is your doing at the time.

There is alot of research out there on the pineal gland but it really is a big mystery to western scientists. I think it does ALOT more than they are willing to postulate at this stage. Rick Strassmans book DMT - The Spirit Molecule talks extensively about the Pineal glands role in OBE's, near death experiences (which are the same really), psychic visions and mainly psychadelic trips to other dimensions! :-)

To really understand its role we need to marry western science with eastern mysticism but for our purposes of trying to achieve LD's and WILD's etc its not really necessary to understand the biological and energetic workings of it - its just interesting.

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Well, I tried it for half an hour and nothing happened.

Try it again some time but not for the intention of validating it as true or false... just to do it and be... (also it takes time and effort to develop energetic sensations at first)

And I should clarify that yes alot of what we are talking about is largely "unproven" by western science. And some of the theories being spoken about are just that.

However our experiences as subjective and personal as they may be, do not need any scientist in a white coat to tell us they are actually happening...

Alot of this stuff doesn't fit in the neat little box most people like to live in, and western science likes to measure in...

But that's what makes all this so interesting and important

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Dreams only occuring in rem-state is nothing but an urban legend.

My understanding of N-rem dreams is that they are more thoughts than false realities. Like when feel you've spent the whole night lost on thought about some problem at work. You've not really been awake, but you've spent a good chunk of it in vivid N-rem.

Again though, as melatonin helps you fall into a nice deep sleep, REM or not, I'm not sure how it can help WILD.

Yeah, non-rem dreams are believed to be less vivid, but they are still dreams with imagery. And I'm also not sure how deep sleep can help you to dream. It's a mystery to me too! Who would've thought deep sleep would help you to dream.. amazing isn't it?

i tried this last night. no lucid dreams but it's only been my third attempt so that's expected. i could definitely feel it though on my forehead. what i did was imagine a huge laser pointing directly at it, attracting my entire soul to that one spot, and opening up a small portal there or giving birth to a new eye. sometimes the laser changes color too.

a little excessive, maybe, but it worked really well.

Originally Posted by Ajna

Just to clarify, when focusing awareness in the centre of your forehead its not an attempt to physically stimulate the Pineal glad in the centre of your brain, however it may be stimulated indirectly from the energy movement your awareness will create.

Focusing awareness and moving energy to your forehead stores energy in the form of raw psychic energy in your third eye chakra. This may lead to a WILD, assist dreaming later, lead to images in the minds eye etc etc. It should be remembered that the mind is really a non local phenomenon meaning that it DOESN'T obey the physical laws of three dimentional space and time and so it is irrelevant to postule where in the brain the 'mind' is located and therefore it isn't really the pineal. I think the Pineal gland however can act as a bridge, conduit or connection between the mind and the body...

As others have posted here they have more success focusing their awarness and hence energy in different areas. This probably changes the way the energy is moving and so since everyone is slightly different (even though we are all connected) the effects work in the way they need them to, to achieve whatever it is your doing at the time.

There is alot of research out there on the pineal gland but it really is a big mystery to western scientists. I think it does ALOT more than they are willing to postulate at this stage. Rick Strassmans book DMT - The Spirit Molecule talks extensively about the Pineal glands role in OBE's, near death experiences (which are the same really), psychic visions and mainly psychadelic trips to other dimensions! :-)

To really understand its role we need to marry western science with eastern mysticism but for our purposes of trying to achieve LD's and WILD's etc its not really necessary to understand the biological and energetic workings of it - its just interesting.

Wow!

So many fantastical claims.
Shame absolutely non of them are actually based on anything more than eastern religious teaching. Really I hold no more sway in eastern mysticism than I do in the gods of ancient rome, or Greece, or modern christianity etc.

To simply claim, as if fact, that the brain is a non local phenomenon, is well, beyond me. If you truely believe this claim, would you be willing for me to remove a few chunks of your brain? I'm serious, if you truely believe such a thing, im sure we could find a doctor somewhere on the planet who would be willing to perform such an operation. If you're right, we can write a best selling book and revolutionise the world. (same goes for eyes, for those who belive in the astral body, shall we not just poke your eyes out, if you can see the real world so well with your astral - non local -eyes?)

As for the "laws of physics" there is no such thing, what people forget when they use that term is that the laws of physics really means "the observed behaviour of the physical world". Observed being the most important word. The rules scientists apply are simply useful tools, based on observation of the real world, to tie those observations together. As such when new behaviour is observed the "rules" change.

I'm sure you believe strongly in what you are saying. But could you please write it in that form (as a belief, or an opinion), rather than fact. Because it is not fact, it's belief.

And before you go mental at me, I've studied eastern mysticism a loooong time, and taken DMT etc. on many occasions. I'm aware of these mystical experiences. I'm not however willing to draw the fantastical conclusions just yet, because I believe in the beautiful complexity of the human brain, and think it is a disservice to say that the mind is non-local.

As the old classic saying goes: Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

I feel that the same holds true of the human mind.
It's amazing enough, do we really need to diminish it's beauty by making up stories about astral planes and chakras?

Originally Posted by Ajna

Try it again some time but not for the intention of validating it as true or false... just to do it and be... (also it takes time and effort to develop energetic sensations at first)

And I should clarify that yes alot of what we are talking about is largely "unproven" by western science. And some of the theories being spoken about are just that.

However our experiences as subjective and personal as they may be, do not need any scientist in a white coat to tell us they are actually happening...

Alot of this stuff doesn't fit in the neat little box most people like to live in, and western science likes to measure in...

But that's what makes all this so interesting and important

When and how exactly is it done? I did at day in a half-lotus zen meditation position.

wow, I can't wait until later on tonight so I can try this. I haven't been LDing for a few months, but the past 3 days my recall has been incredible. I just might be able to have a lucid dream tonight with this technique, and if I do it will be my first WILD.

im stoked already

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Wow!
So many fantastical claims.
Shame absolutely non of them are actually based on anything more than eastern religious teaching. Really I hold no more sway in eastern mysticism than I do in the gods of ancient rome, or Greece, or modern christianity etc.

To simply claim, as if fact, that the brain is a non local phenomenon, is well, beyond me. If you truely believe this claim, would you be willing for me to remove a few chunks of your brain? I'm serious, if you truely believe such a thing, im sure we could find a doctor somewhere on the planet who would be willing to perform such an operation. If you're right, we can write a best selling book and revolutionise the world. (same goes for eyes, for those who belive in the astral body, shall we not just poke your eyes out, if you can see the real world so well with your astral - non local -eyes?)

As for the "laws of physics" there is no such thing, what people forget when they use that term is that the laws of physics really means "the observed behaviour of the physical world". Observed being the most important word. The rules scientists apply are simply useful tools, based on observation of the real world, to tie those observations together. As such when new behaviour is observed the "rules" change.

I'm sure you believe strongly in what you are saying. But could you please write it in that form (as a belief, or an opinion), rather than fact. Because it is not fact, it's belief.

And before you go mental at me, I've studied eastern mysticism a loooong time, and taken DMT etc. on many occasions. I'm aware of these mystical experiences. I'm not however willing to draw the fantastical conclusions just yet, because I believe in the beautiful complexity of the human brain, and think it is a disservice to say that the mind is non-local.

As the old classic saying goes: Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

I feel that the same holds true of the human mind.
It's amazing enough, do we really need to diminish it's beauty by making up stories about astral planes and chakras?

Hi Spaceexplorer,

Nice post, I respect your opinion as everyone is entitled to one. You have highlighted some things for me for when I post on this forum in future, thanks. I share your belief of the beautiful complexity of the human brain also.

Lao Tzu sums it up for me when he said "he who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak" so obviously I don't know everything. Guatama Buddha asked his disciples not to believe anything he said as fact... he asked them to find the truth for themselves. Which WILD technique is working for you at the moment because I would like to try others?

Im interested to know when you were studying the wisdom of the ancient rishis, yogis and Lamas you decided it was not the truth after all and started quoting Dan Fouts? I'm not being facetious I really am Interested.

Also please share your many DMT experiences.

Namaste

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

When and how exactly is it done? I did at day in a half-lotus zen meditation position.

Well what I do is essentially as per ChaybaChayba's earlier post. I use it at night after 4-5hrs sleep to induce a WILD so I am in bed lying on my back. I can't achieve the half lotus position for any great amount of time and for meditation I find as long as my spine is straight, any position that is comfortable is good so I just sit cross-legged with alot of pillows for support (I'm not the most flexible person in the legs) :-). I've also used a chair in the past as well but never achieved a full WILD from these upright positions.

Thanks for this post and interesting responses. I'm enjoying this

Anyone know when dmt - the spirit molecule, movie comes out?

Originally Posted by Ajna

Hi Spaceexplorer,

Nice post, I respect your opinion as everyone is entitled to one. You have highlighted some things for me for when I post on this forum in future, thanks. I share your belief of the beautiful complexity of the human brain also.

Lao Tzu sums it up for me when he said "he who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak" so obviously I don't know everything. Guatama Buddha asked his disciples not to believe anything he said as fact... he asked them to find the truth for themselves. Which WILD technique is working for you at the moment because I would like to try others?

Im interested to know when you were studying the wisdom of the ancient rishis, yogis and Lamas you decided it was not the truth after all and started quoting Dan Fouts? I'm not being facetious I really am Interested.

Also please share your many DMT experiences.

Namaste

I never decided it was not the truth. I just found that a great deal of wisdom had also picked up superstition, dogma, outdated world views etc. etc.
I have no problem with the idea of a greater universal mind, of which we are dew drop in the ocean. I do however have issues with things like levitation, energy fields etc. which i feel are the reminants of hundreds of years of magicians and lack of scientific thinking. I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater... I'm just not trying to breastfeed the bathwater too!

I think there is a good deal of wisdom in many cultures. There have been wise men and women throughout human history. However, even the wisest man of our time, can only have access to the knowledge that has come before him. So, in that respect, I conclude that the wise men of old, came to thier beliefs based upon the world view at the time. Had they been born in our time, perhaps they would have become scientists not yogis.

I also think it is a very convinient illusion to see the past as full of wonder and magic. We have arrived at this point in history because of our past. If their is genuine knowledge to be found from our past, then it should hopefully still be alive today.

Having spent a lot of time in India, I've seen the huge tourist trade based on selling spirituality to westeners. There is a lot of garbage being sold as ancient wisdom. There are also a lot of people desperate for answers, who in thier desperation loose thier critical faculties.

I think it was Buddha himself who said "if you want the pith of a tree, you do not walk away with the bark.", and so it should be with truth. If you want to get to the truth of any subject, there is a lot of untruths and halftruths to cut through. You do not settle for the first things you read.

My experiences with DMT, I cant start to explain them. If you've tried it yourself, I'm sure you'll understand.

As I've got older, I've decided to spend my time not trying to find evidence that backs up what i believe about the world, but to search for evidence that would prove it false. I've found that by living this way, I am forced to be humble about my place in the universe (the insignificant spec of dust that we all are).

For the largest part of my teenage years and early adulthood, I was fascinated by easternmysticism, meditation and all the things you yourself seem to care for. Because I wanted to find the truth, I realised i had to be harsh, i had to test things, pull them apart. I didn't want to get near to the truth and then walk away with something else.
I am still looking, and probably always will be. But slowly i am adding light to some of my areas of ignorance. I've taught myself conjouring and magic, so that i can understand how easy it is to fool the mind. This in itself has changed my worldview on so much. In fact I learnt a great deal of these things from street magicians in India.

But personaly, I dont really need to be enlightened, or find my place in god.
I'm already living in a miracle right here and now. Just being alive in this universe is enough for me. I'll pass away, but the universe wont. And i am just a part of this universe anyway. My awareness will pass away, but awareness itself wont. If there are hidden layers to the human experience, if there is an afterlife and all that, It'll be a pleasant suprise for me when i get there. Until that point, im going to accept this universe on face value, on observable phenomena, because it is amazing enough already.

I can take my telescope out on a clear night and be overwhelmed by the majesty of the universe.

I've experienced more awe and wonder with a tool of science (the telescope)
than I've ever experienced through meditations. And i think the reason is because Im not focusing on me-me-me... im looking outwards at the wonder of which i am just a tiny speck of dust.

I have found meditation to be useful, in clearing and calming my mind. In making myself more focused and aware. I'm just not going to go looking for enlightenment, or mystical energy fields or supernatural powers. I have enough on my plate to be amazed at about this universe already.

Plus I've always believed that mastering the physical world is the first step in understanding. Science is the study of the physical world. Many people want to jump the gun and go straight to being buddha. Well Personally I barely understand science and the physical plane, so to aim for enlightenment would be crazily arrogant of me just now. How could I understand "the whole universe", when im not even completely sure about quantum physics, or the biology of a snail!

I could ramble on for hours, because there is so much to cover.
I prefer to be open minded about all things. But not to the point of gullability.
That's pretty much my outlook on life.

And anyway, we're probably all wrong. This is most likely just a virtual simulation in some futuristic university.

And with that in mind, remember, there's always a futuristic scientist watching you whilst you masturbate.

(come to think of it, i think i've just come up with the science (fiction) version of catholic guilt... haha)

How do you stimulate the third eye chakra, ChaybaChayba?

I tried this last night and it didn't work for me.

Also, does this chakra make you sleepy?

Shouldn't this thread be in the beyond dreaming section?

But whilst it isn't,
Can those who believe in this kind of thing answer these two questions:

How and why did the 3rd eye chakra evolve?

If the mind is non local, then why do we not find intelligence and reasoning to an equal level of human beings in other animals (like a shrew, or a snail?)
if the mind is non-local, and the size of the brain irrelevant, then it makes no sense why only us humans use verbal language etc.


I'd like to say i'm not trying to be difficult here, but I am, you can't make claims like these and except them on face value without question other basic facts of life we take forgranted.

Does a dog have a 3rd eye?
how about a Rat?
A snail?
A house plant?
Bacteria?

I think this thread belongs in Beyond Dreaming.

Originally Posted by Ajna

Well what I do is essentially as per ChaybaChayba's earlier post. I use it at night after 4-5hrs sleep to induce a WILD so I am in bed lying on my back. I can't achieve the half lotus position for any great amount of time and for meditation I find as long as my spine is straight, any position that is comfortable is good so I just sit cross-legged with alot of pillows for support (I'm not the most flexible person in the legs) :-). I've also used a chair in the past as well but never achieved a full WILD from these upright positions.

Oh, I see. So basically it's nothing but another WILD anchor. I prefer to keep to mine, which also has a fallback function to MILD.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

How and why did the 3rd eye chakra evolve?

I'd like to say i'm not trying to be difficult here, but I am, you can't make claims like these and except them on face value without question other basic facts of life we take forgranted.
.

Have you never wondered with what eye you see your dreams? If you would imagine boobs in your imagination right now, how do you see those boobs? With what eye are you looking at them? Think about that... the third eye, the minds eye is very real. It's how you see your imagination, it's how you see your dreams. You are using it right now, but still you are not convinced if it's existence?

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Oh, I see. So basically it's nothing but another WILD anchor. I prefer to keep to mine, which also has a fallback function to MILD.

Care to share your technique? What's a WILD anchor and what do you mean with a fallback function to MILD?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Care to share your technique? What's a WILD anchor and what do you mean with a fallback function to MILD?

Sure. A WILD anchor is something you concentrate on while letting your body fall asleep, just like concentrating on a spot as you suggested here. I'm using a MILD "mantra" as an anchor, so even if I lose concentration and fall asleep, there is a good chance I will still realize that I'm dreaming later. That is something your method doesn't do. Apart from that, anything can be used as an anchor that doesn't keep you awake, watching your breath for example. It just must be without expectation, because as long as you expect something to happen, you won't sleep. That's why people fail when they wait for vibrations, etc. to set in.