Proving AP

If I shuffle a deck and pick a card without looking at it, and place it over the edge of my table (or on top of a glass table), and then I AP and look at the card, wake up, and it's the same card, would this "prove" AP? I'm really curious about this, and i've been struggling to move from LD into AP, and i don't wanna just trick myself into thinking i'm Astral Projecting when i'm not. Can someone here please try this experiment and let me know how it goes. better yet, if your really good, AP and come to my house and tell me what card it is.
thanks.

it would be really good evidence IF whoever tries it can consistently get the right card each time they try. even more so under lab servailence. If I ever get to the point of APing I will test it under lab conditions to prove it.

in the belief of astral projection, there are different levels of reality. astral projection gets its name from the astral realm. this is a thought manifestation realm, where dreams take place. however, it supposedly exists even while you are not dreaming and it holds the sum of human thought in form.

however, before the astral, there is the etheric. the etheric is like a thin sheet between our physical world and the astral. in the etheric, this buffer zone, you are like a ghost. actually, you are a form of energy, electric like energy from what I understand.

in the etheric you can witness real time events, including your card trick. at the same time you can interact with things similar to your substance. because you are some form of electric energy, interesting things happen should you try to pass through an electronic device. many APrs say, you can't. while you are a ghost to everything else, you are not a ghost to electricity, you can feel it and its sting can be strong enough to disorientate you. *they say this is why hauntings involve electronic devices acting up*

anyways, I've never AP'd. just going on the accounts of others. it can be hard to prove AP because, the large majority of it from what I understand happens in the astral. and in the astral, your card trick wouldn't work.

so to do any experiment you'd have to project into the etheric only. im not sure if there are any techniques that lead to the etheric and not the astral

I read there was a guy, doing lab tests I believe, for his astral projection accuracy. they would tell him in one hour he would be shown a randon image 1of4000 random images their computer had ready. he would then draw what he saw, and they'd check an hour later. Now assuming this was all legit, the result were incredible... I'll see if I can find that article!

Like snoozer I am in a pretty identical position. I want to go from LD to projecting. And I also had the same idea...

Either ask some random person to write/draw something on a paper and put it on a desk... or just shuffle cards and put one on desk without looking at it. And then project and see what is there.

I would like to believe that projecting really is more than our imagination alone but I would definitely want some sort of proof. So yea, if I ever do manage to project I sure will do an experiment like this.

Oh and do find that article if you can Jolly... I bet it's interesting.

Well I thought it was in the TASTE Archives but I can't seem to find it, I'll keep searching though.

Rofl, if you could AP in the real world, that would be pretty awesome, running around like a ghost scaring people, checking out the answers for the exam, peeking into the girls dresser room... I've also been interested in AP lately, If I can pull of that card trick, I'll let you know :P

So there is a difference between astral projection and out of body experiences? I kinda presumed they were the same so i didn't look up on that. I'm trying to exit my body while in a LD, but keep in contact with the physical world kinda thing. more like the whole watching your body while your knocked out having an operation kinda thing. There's a whole bunch of things i want to try but aren't even worth mentioning yet coz i can't get out of my body. I've tried the rope technique before i go to sleep when i'm really tired, and i feel like my arms are out and i'm really light headed, but i just can't seem to get my head and torso out.
Thanks for the input ppl. And that article would be really interesting to read, i might try google for a while now.

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Originally Posted by snoozer

So there is a difference between astral projection and out of body experiences? I kinda presumed they were the same so i didn't look up on that. I'm trying to exit my body while in a LD, but keep in contact with the physical world kinda thing. more like the whole watching your body while your knocked out having an operation kinda thing. There's a whole bunch of things i want to try but aren't even worth mentioning yet coz i can't get out of my body. I've tried the rope technique before i go to sleep when i'm really tired, and i feel like my arms are out and i'm really light headed, but i just can't seem to get my head and torso out.
Thanks for the input ppl. And that article would be really interesting to read, i might try google for a while now.

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Well you're going off the direction of LD -> transfer into AP. The only time I've been able to leave the body is in deep meditation(consciously AWAKE but in deep meditation, completely different from consciously falling asleep and LD'ing). Its known in order to AP you have to do at least "some" kind of energy work, or else you won't be able to leave your room. Maybe you should rethink the way you enter AP?? Here is a great book available for free online, everything you need is there:
http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html

I am never good at APing. Any pointers?

I think a better method would be something involving more than one person and something that does not involve the physical world.

For example, person A goes to sleep and enters AP (not even necessary I'd suppose, if someone can AP into someone else's LD). Either way, person B meets with person A in the dream world/AP, and person A gives person B his email and a codeword. After waking, person B emails the codeword to person A.

Until I witness or hear from credible sources something like this, I'm maintain my assumption that the Astral Plane is a figment of our own subconscience manifesting itself in a lucid dream. I don't claim to know for certain, and I'm certainly open for the possibility of the AP being real, but until I find more conclusive evidence, I'll maintain the more likely option.

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Originally Posted by dtrevinofl

Its known in order to AP you have to do at least "some" kind of energy work, or else you won't be able to leave your room. Maybe you should rethink the way you enter AP??

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lol. My mum's a hippy and i used to LD and have OBEs when i was little, or so she tells me. and me and my friend used to see aura's in primary school, does that count to anything? lol prob not coz i can't do anything now. By the way it's a great link.
And i think LD>AP could be the only way for me coz i don't have the patience for the other AP methods, thats why i tried the rope technique.

thanks

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Originally Posted by mfratt

Until I witness or hear from credible sources something like this, I'm maintain my assumption that the Astral Plane is a figment of our own subconscience manifesting itself in a lucid dream. I don't claim to know for certain, and I'm certainly open for the possibility of the AP being real, but until I find more conclusive evidence, I'll maintain the more likely option.

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One thing that seems to be a common factor among AP'ers is a lack of REM, which kind of suggests that true 'projecting' isn't based on the same 'altered state' that dreams are. The imagery and types of 'reality' each reportedly have are completely different.

I'd like to find more scientific data on AP'ing, such as REM and brainwave cycles and how they differ from the dreaming state. From what little bit I have gathered, it's two completely different states of consciousness.

read some more of that ebook by robert peterson, at the end of each chapter he talks about visualisation techniques and whatever to help OBEs. really good stuff. can someone who's tried the rope technique try and "push" their astral fingers through their mouse, out of their hand. it's a crazy feeling. i think i'm gunna get really close to having one soon, i'll let you's know or start the online dream journal or something. or maybe there's no such thing as AP and i'm just nuts. Oh and RBee, click the link from dtrevinofl and read chapter 26, heading 'What's the difference between an OBE and a lucid dream?'
talks about the same stuff your talkin about.

Good morning. Had a weird dream where my "dreamself" recognised it was a dream but i wasn't lucid myself, and i dreamed of going to the astral plane i think. Read it in my dream journal thingo here if your interested. anyways, gtg to school. let me know if any of you ppl have tried to have an OBE and looked at the card.