Thread: What's more amazing?

This should probably be in beyond dreaming or elsewhere, however:
I'd say it would be far more amazing if OBE's and astral projection were real (and I don't think I need to be clear on 'real' here). The mind is capable of a lot of things, even affecting one physically so things like dreaming don't 'amaze' me, and that is all I believe such phenomena are.

I think it's all in the mind too. My experiences however haven't been as "vivid" as so many describe.

I'd say what's amazing is that what this shows is that there is no limit to how far the mind can go..."in your head" or otherwise, it's all a result of the mind at work.

The fact that you are traversing different universes of existance. . .or the fact that these unimaginably vast, detailed, spiritually significant episodes are created right inside your own brain.

If the end result is the same, how much does it matter "the source"?

the source should matter.
religion was created because human beings needed "a source," a light at the end of the tunnel of sorts.
without a source to base life and experiences on, everything is absolutely pointless.
Its a bit frightening to think that our conscience, thoughts, ideologies, spirituality, dreams (lucid or not), and everything else is just pointless.
From a strictly scientific viewpoint, I could say that we [as human beings] are the way we are solely due to the millions of years of natural selection; that we have evolved off of the common goal that every organism has: to stay alive.
If we are just organisms, then our goal as organisms is to just stay alive, everything else was lost to evolutionary changes. . . sooooo, why are dreams still here?

Yes. it's all in the mind. Not the brain, the mind. The mind leaves the body, the body stays put including the brain. Nothing is real, not even the lives we see here. The only thing real is what we expierience, as it's real to us, and our emotions but the picture is not real.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Yes. it's all in the mind. Not the brain, the mind. The mind leaves the body, the body stays put including the brain. Nothing is real, not even the lives we see here. The only thing real is what we expierience, as it's real to us, and our emotions but the picture is not real.

Well, scientificly seen, we do have a second electromagnetic body, which is our memory/soul, so yeah I see the possibility, but tbh, I don't see how these could actually seperate? Atm I also believe it's all in the mind until I have seen for myself it is different. Anyway, I guess if you get good at lucid dreaming you will find out some day.

I've always found the way the mind works very fascinating. existance and reality... everything we experience and percieve... our entire lives all come from our minds, which are so small but at the same time so amazing. And... there's no way that we can prove whether OBE's or astral projection really exist. At least not to other people. but then again, you can't prove that it's impossible. i think they're both amazing, and that even though the OBE and astral projection sounds more amazing because it's not something most people are used to, i think that people dont fully understand how unbelievable our minds are, simply because they're something that's a part of everyone's life every day.

yes yes. . .the mind is capable of unimaginable cognitive feats. . .

an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVqRT_kCOLI

Whichever one is true is the more amazing one. =P.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Yes. it's all in the mind. Not the brain, the mind. The mind leaves the body, the body stays put including the brain. Nothing is real, not even the lives we see here. The only thing real is what we expierience, as it's real to us, and our emotions but the picture is not real.

awesome perspective. Spot on!
brings us to the age-old question, is the color that I know to be blue the same color blue that you perceive?!

But if the mind can venture out, but the brain must stay put. . .how do we think when we are dreaming. . .or astral projecting. . .or as a spirit or other entity?
If we leave our brains behind, then there has to be some other force/energy/framework in which we all utilize to be able to form conscious thoughts. Because with all matter in the universe being energy, the only thing that separates us from everything else is the fact that we are consciously aware of our energy and can control it. Perhaps we have a universal internet of sorts!?-- one single framework that can process our shared thoughts and emotions once we are freed from the confines of our brains. . .could this "universal oneness" of sorts be what Buddhist monks try so hard to achieve?? It could be what they call Nirvana. . . or what others refer to as Heaven. . .

Some obscure 'pseudo evidence' that I stumbled upon that connects this theory to everyday life: A test was done on a large group of people in which they were each given a crossword puzzle (never solved by anyone) and had all the time needed to complete it. The average time it took for all the participants to complete the puzzle was recorded.
Then, they were all given a crossword puzzle that was circulated in the newspapers the day before (thus, solved by millions of people nation-wide already). The average completion time was significantly faster. . .as if they were 'plucking' the answers out of thin air. Perhaps theres a higher knowledge of sorts that we can all tap into. . .and we do tap into it! whether we realize it or not. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_IbX...eature=related

This guy forgets when he starts going into his body, he has to change the way he goes in to remember.

I've been gone for a while, or rather, my computer was too troubled to allow me Internet...

I love the trend this has taken, a wonderful journey, and still: how AM I? Am I mind or am I molecules and cells and electricity and chemistry? It is not that I think I am, but I think, THEREFORE I am. Whatever I think is true, is becoming real for me.

Descartes' stories are old (in science), but so are Einstein's theories (not his personal viewpoints). It is now proven that physical information travels faster than light. The question about what are the limits of "normal" (e.g., compared to paranormal) is wider than ever. And just maybe the truth lies in what you think rather than just believe from so-called "established science".

Just as in science, OBE's are repeated in the same way by too many people not to be believable. Just maybe all the blue we see are just truly blue... in the end I believe what I think I believe! And for some people it will remain gibberish, so what? Sometimes the proof of the pudding lies in the eating. Whatever you do just be considerate and responsible, too. In this forum I can say something contrary to the "established" viewpoint in order to try to get to the truth. And somehow I love the truth that I CAN see from you all!

well put!

alas, fact is simply a collective agreement of the existence of something.

Its very hard not to follow the flow of collective thought. its all a convenience; perhaps all the answers have not been uncovered?

THAT scares people, i think.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Whichever one is true is the more amazing one. =P.

I'd say the opposite. Believing in things that aren't true is so much cooler than silly scientific facts.

I think it is amazing that we can take the flood of input from all our senses, and create a seemingly solid, reliable and convincing world from it. I'm just talking about our ability to construct our waking, physical life.

The fact that dreams can feel as real as our waking lives is just icing on the cake. We have had so much practice creating a convincing world, we can even do it in our sleep! We are so good at it, we don't even need the "real" input that started the whole process in the first place.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I think it is amazing that we can take the flood of input from all our senses, and create a seemingly solid, reliable and convincing world from it. I'm just talking about our ability to construct our waking, physical life.

The fact that dreams can feel as real as our waking lives is just icing on the cake. We have had so much practice creating a convincing world, we can even do it in our sleep! We are so good at it, we don't even need the "real" input that started the whole process in the first place.

Dreams and halusinations are different by what i have heard over the years. Dreams are ever changing, while them halu's are always a constant non changing thing. A blood deprived brain produces halu's, while sleeping transforms 1 thing into a billion other things and has attatchments. One is caused by lack of blood/oxygen, the other is caused by your memories colliding, and i'm assuming dreams are always different is because your thinking pattern is ALWAYS different...one second you are thinking of 1 thing, the next something completly different...sometimes it's embarrassing to say what you are thinking, other times you are afraid of being labeled, etc, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Dreams and halusinations are different by what i have heard over the years. Dreams are ever changing, while them halu's are always a constant non changing thing. A blood deprived brain produces halu's, while sleeping transforms 1 thing into a billion other things and has attatchments. One is caused by lack of blood/oxygen, the other is caused by your memories colliding, and i'm assuming dreams are always different is because your thinking pattern is ALWAYS different...one second you are thinking of 1 thing, the next something completly different...sometimes it's embarrassing to say what you are thinking, other times you are afraid of being labeled, etc, etc, etc.

No, dreams are sometimes considered a form of normal hallicination. While dreaming, our memory and other cognitive functions vary, and it is possible that these also trigger mentations that we call dreams. The physiological basis of spantaneous sources (which I call hallucinations ), may be differences in oxygen, blood supply, other nutrients or even abberant electrical / chemical stimuli. These are not constant, and even ill hallucinations change according to influence of surrounding sensory stimuli. Whatever the sources of these dreams / mentations are, is not yet scientifically pinned down to one exact occurrence. Dead brain tissue is not an option since it does not "work" by definition. It may not even be something we know yet to exist physiologically. OBEs testify to an extra-corporeal possibility. As a scientific being I have to keep this in consideration. The borders between healthy and ill hallucinations are vague if we consider them to be some form of spontaneous stimuli that illicit further cognition. But this is how far I can clarify the terms for myself. It will be interesting to see more opinions.