Thread: Fear of death...GONE!!!!!

A small interruption... I've heard the following bit of wisdom several times recently:

Originally Posted by EzioAuditore

...Were you afraid/bored before you were born? Do you remember anything about your pre-birth life? Were you floating in purgatory? You don't remember? Did you care? Did you ponder about what your life will be like? No?

What does that even mean? That, because we did not exist before we existed, then we will not exist after we exist? That because we once (necessarily) did not care about existence, or rather non-existence, that we need not care about it now? That, when we did not exist, we didn't think about coming life, so now that we do exist, we should not ponder our death? That, because we didn't exist once, we are not permitted to exist again? Or maybe that because it at some point did not exist, our living consciousness is incapable of building something that might survive the death of its corporeal creator and vehicle? Or perhaps that because we once didn't exist, the nature of our current existence is irrelevant, no matter what we think? Or does it mean something else altogether?

I don't know; I have a feeling it means nothing at all. It just sounds cool, like something a stoned college student would say at 3am, to the astonishment of his equally stoned buddies. Thinking that we did not exist before we were born and then attaching the obvious fact that, since we didn't exist, we could not care about that non-existence, seems absurd to me, and does nothing to sway or temper a current concern about death.

Why should the fact that we didn't know or fear anything before we were born hold any sway at all about what we're thinking about now that we are born, have an identity, and perhaps might wonder bout what happens to us after death? It might sound pretty, or even logical, but it really means nothing.

Also, let's say there is something after death, some form of survival of consciousness. Why would that survival be negated because we once did not exist?

Originally Posted by Sageous

A small interruption... I've heard the following bit of wisdom several times recently:



What does that even mean? That, because we did not exist before we existed, then we will not exist after we exist? That because we once (necessarily) did not care about existence, or rather non-existence, that we need not care about it now? That, when we did not exist, we didn't think about coming life, so now that we do exist, we should not ponder our death? That, because we didn't exist once, we are not permitted to exist again? Or maybe that because it at some point did not exist, our living consciousness is incapable of building something that might survive the death of its corporeal creator and vehicle? Or perhaps that because we once didn't exist, the nature of our current existence is irrelevant, no matter what we think? Or does it mean something else altogether?

I don't know; I have a feeling it means nothing at all. It just sounds cool, like something a stoned college student would say at 3am, to the astonishment of his equally stoned buddies. Thinking that we did not exist before we were born and then attaching the obvious fact that, since we didn't exist, we could not care about that non-existence, seems absurd to me, and does nothing to sway or temper a current concern about death.

Why should the fact that we didn't know or fear anything before we were born hold any sway at all about what we're thinking about now that we are born, have an identity, and perhaps might wonder bout what happens to us after death? It might sound pretty, or even logical, but it really means nothing.

Also, let's say there is something after death, some form of survival of consciousness. Why would that survival be negated because we once did not exist?

So you believe our consciousness goes on forever? Our consciousness generated by our brain? The brain that rots out? I know what you mean, though, but let's alter your theory in consensus to make sense.

Your memories go on in spirit form and go on forever. You aren't aware about your informal spirit, but when a new baby comes along, that spirit is in the birthed baby. You start a new life, but you don't remember anything from before. That's where De Ja Vu comes into play. "I strangely remember doing this..." because the ancestor did it.

I still choose to believe nonexistence, but I fixed your theory.

Originally Posted by Sageous

A small interruption... I've heard the following bit of wisdom several times recently:



What does that even mean? That, because we did not exist before we existed, then we will not exist after we exist? That because we once (necessarily) did not care about existence, or rather non-existence, that we need not care about it now? That, when we did not exist, we didn't think about coming life, so now that we do exist, we should not ponder our death? That, because we didn't exist once, we are not permitted to exist again? Or maybe that because it at some point did not exist, our living consciousness is incapable of building something that might survive the death of its corporeal creator and vehicle? Or perhaps that because we once didn't exist, the nature of our current existence is irrelevant, no matter what we think? Or does it mean something else altogether?

I don't know; I have a feeling it means nothing at all. It just sounds cool, like something a stoned college student would say at 3am, to the astonishment of his equally stoned buddies. Thinking that we did not exist before we were born and then attaching the obvious fact that, since we didn't exist, we could not care about that non-existence, seems absurd to me, and does nothing to sway or temper a current concern about death.

Why should the fact that we didn't know or fear anything before we were born hold any sway at all about what we're thinking about now that we are born, have an identity, and perhaps might wonder bout what happens to us after death? It might sound pretty, or even logical, but it really means nothing.

Also, let's say there is something after death, some form of survival of consciousness. Why would that survival be negated because we once did not exist?

This would make sense, but our consciousness is purely brain functions, or what a lot of people would label as neurons. We sense a self, but it is our brain and self awareness, and when we die, our brains die, and we lose that. Our brain is not a vehicle to self, it IS self! At least this is what I think.

So I stand with the concept of the bundle ego

Originally Posted by OneUpBoy71 View Post
So then clearly you've never heard of exorcisms, hauntings, or anything along the subject? Oh wait, I guess millions of people are lying about their experiences that have terrorized them just for the fun of it. Great thinking pal, good to know you are calling many people liars who have been traumatized by events like those. They dont make up stories for the fun of it buddy, 90 percent of them dont even want anything, they just tell their stories. Now I am saying that no one lies? Of course not, if you can profit from something, you can bet people will do their best to do it. But that by no means are all of the other millions of people lying. That would be pointless. You are among the few, that even though millions of people have had supernatural, or haunted encounters, you still decide that its a joke. Being blind, or simply just denying the fact of such things is just ignorance. But hey, Im not meaning to start anything man, believe what you want.

They aren't lying, they just misinterpret.
Our perception works largely through associations. When people believe in ghosts, they tend to 'know' that a ghost came, instead of using another rational explanation. Ghosts are higher up their schemas list.
As for cases were these people encounter supernatural beings directly, we can explain it by a lot of things, like:
_Halosinations
_OBE (LD version lol)
_Drugs(?)

Also, if supernatural encounters happened in our 'plane' it means these ghosts, or whatever, have turned into physical beings(at least temporarily). So never have they left any trace? Not even some kind of new element we have never discovered?

I'm sorry but supernatural doesn't exist not just because it most likely was ancient stories, but also because there are a lot of evidence showing that encounters never happened.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

They aren't lying, they just misinterpret.
Our perception works largely through associations. When people believe in ghosts, they tend to 'know' that a ghost came, instead of using another rational explanation. Ghosts are higher up their schemas list.
As for cases were these people encounter supernatural beings directly, we can explain it by a lot of things, like:
_Halosinations
_OBE (LD version lol)
_Drugs(?)

Also, if supernatural encounters happened in our 'plane' it means these ghosts, or whatever, have turned into physical beings(at least temporarily). So never have they left any trace? Not even some kind of new element we have never discovered?

I'm sorry but supernatural doesn't exist not just because it most likely was ancient stories, but also because there are a lot of evidence showing that encounters never happened.

So you are still calling millions of people liars? That's a bit irrational-especially since a huge percentage of those who have had those experiences were completely healthy in the mind and were also completely awake(for the Hypnagogic stuff not to be a possibility) and also many of them did not believe in ghosts prior to their experience. So the schema's you are talking about were not present. Of course, maybe for some, but to say that for millions of people would not make sense. The supernatural "beings" never fully come to this realm, they manifest in the form of energy at most times so there is not much of a trace. However they can cause changes in temperature wherever they are, and stuff along that line. So no, I guarantee you, millions of people are not having just simple hallucinations,OBE's, or doing drugs. However as I said before, some of them could be, and there is no doubt that a percentage of them are. But that is not a good enough explanation for millions of experiences.

Originally Posted by OneUpBoy71

So you are still calling millions of people liars? That's a bit irrational-especially since a huge percentage of those who have had those experiences were completely healthy in the mind and were also completely awake(for the Hypnagogic stuff not to be a possibility) and also many of them did not believe in ghosts prior to their experience. So the schema's you are talking about were not present. Of course, maybe for some, but to say that for millions of people would not make sense. The supernatural "beings" never fully come to this realm, they manifest in the form of energy at most times so there is not much of a trace. However they can cause changes in temperature wherever they are, and stuff along that line. So no, I guarantee you, millions of people are not having just simple hallucinations,OBE's, or doing drugs. However as I said before, some of them could be, and there is no doubt that a percentage of them are. But that is not a good enough explanation for millions of experiences.

Still doesn't make sense though.
Energy can't be destroyed nor created, it only changes. Some theories even say that matter is energy but that vibrates slowly.

Heat is not enough, you can't say a ghost exists if the room temperature changed, plus there are many many NATURAL mechanics in us that may cause us to think we saw something weird even while wide awake, sober, and not even believing in supernatural occurances.

Also, most of them say they SAW a ghost, which means forming a solid object, which is weird for creatures who can go through walls.

Again, they didn't leave any trace?! You said they partially come to this realm (which is weird, wouldn't this creature die if it had only half it's body present in it's realm? I assume the half body in our realm can't be compatible with the other half in the other realm. It's like if half your body is asleep and the other half is awake. Both are alive but bodily functions would become impaired, thus leading to death, unless you mean it comes to our real but still has a connection to it's own realm, allowing it to go back. I never knew other realms follow our logic, it's obvious ghosts are stories started by man).

Plus I doubt what you said about a lot of these people seeing ghosts or whatever while they are sober, healthy, and wide awake. How much would you say, like 20%? I say like 2%.

I'm willing to believe in supernatural, if they exist already in our 'realm'. I would consider them more like aliens, who also laws of physics apply to them too. But ghosts from other realms? This is just impossible! Millions of people sworn to seeing the gods while wide awake before. Did they?!
I'm sorry but I consider this impossible, unless you want me to consider the impossible, which I would, but I like to believe that the laws of the universe we now know are true, and I'm sure ghosts don't break those law.

It has to be a stronger case than supernatural for me to start to consider the impossible (don't forget, impossible is only impossible universal laws wise, and unless these laws are broken, the impossible stays impossible, and this supernatural case is far too vulnerable to different elements to be considered a solid candidate to breaking the current laws of the universe known to man).

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Still doesn't make sense though.
Energy can't be destroyed nor created, it only changes. Some theories even say that matter is energy but that vibrates slowly.

Heat is not enough, you can't say a ghost exists if the room temperature changed, plus there are many many NATURAL mechanics in us that may cause us to think we saw something weird even while wide awake, sober, and not even believing in supernatural occurances.

Also, most of them say they SAW a ghost, which means forming a solid object, which is weird for creatures who can go through walls.

Again, they didn't leave any trace?! You said they partially come to this realm (which is weird, wouldn't this creature die if it had only half it's body present in it's realm? I assume the half body in our realm can't be compatible with the other half in the other realm. It's like if half your body is asleep and the other half is awake. Both are alive but bodily functions would become impaired, thus leading to death, unless you mean it comes to our real but still has a connection to it's own realm, allowing it to go back. I never knew other realms follow our logic, it's obvious ghosts are stories started by man).

Plus I doubt what you said about a lot of these people seeing ghosts or whatever while they are sober, healthy, and wide awake. How much would you say, like 20%? I say like 2%.

I'm willing to believe in supernatural, if they exist already in our 'realm'. I would consider them more like aliens, who also laws of physics apply to them too. But ghosts from other realms? This is just impossible! Millions of people sworn to seeing the gods while wide awake before. Did they?!
I'm sorry but I consider this impossible, unless you want me to consider the impossible, which I would, but I like to believe that the laws of the universe we now know are true, and I'm sure ghosts don't break those law.

It has to be a stronger case than supernatural for me to start to consider the impossible (don't forget, impossible is only impossible universal laws wise, and unless these laws are broken, the impossible stays impossible, and this supernatural case is far too vulnerable to different elements to be considered a solid candidate to breaking the current laws of the universe known to man).

You do realize that beings of other dimensions do not follow the rules of physics or the rules in general of our dimension right? You dont have to understand it in order for it to exist. They leave traces such as voices, temperature drops, moving objects. Other than that there is no trace left permanent by their "body". In order for the sober to add up to 2% then millions upon millions of people would have to be doing hallucinogenic drugs. Fact is, half the people in the world are against them, so you're percentage is incorrect. Man hasnt even explored deep space yet beyond our own galaxy, so what makes you think they know it all?

Originally Posted by OneUpBoy71

You do realize that beings of other dimensions do not follow the rules of physics or the rules in general of our dimension right? You dont have to understand it in order for it to exist. They leave traces such as voices, temperature drops, moving objects. Other than that there is no trace left permanent by their "body". In order for the sober to add up to 2% then millions upon millions of people would have to be doing hallucinogenic drugs. Fact is, half the people in the world are against them, so you're percentage is incorrect. Man hasnt even explored deep space yet beyond our own galaxy, so what makes you think they know it all?

So no proof except stories and mundane after effects.
Again, people used to 'see gods and angels', millions, tens of millions of people........
This case is no different. Very bad proof and logic, logic based on GHOST TALES! "Ghosts don't follow our laws of physics", "ghosts are from different realms".
People seem to know a lot of facts about ghosts, stories from long times ago, seeings and indications as unreliable and unsolid as a net cup. These are only tales, and yes, most likely people are mistaken. Ever watched tests to see if certain pre planned signals fool people into thinking ghosts passed? Well yes they do, and the fooled test subject completely believed ghosts passed.

It's more likely ghosts aren't visiting us.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

So no proof except stories and mundane after effects.
Again, people used to 'see gods and angels', millions, tens of millions of people........
This case is no different. Very bad proof and logic, logic based on GHOST TALES! "Ghosts don't follow our laws of physics", "ghosts are from different realms".
People seem to know a lot of facts about ghosts, stories from long times ago, seeings and indications as unreliable and unsolid as a net cup. These are only tales, and yes, most likely people are mistaken. Ever watched tests to see if certain pre planned signals fool people into thinking ghosts passed? Well yes they do, and the fooled test subject completely believed ghosts passed.

It's more likely ghosts aren't visiting us.

So you are presuming that this is the case no matter what? thats kind of arrogant. As I just said, man does NOT know everything. Its nice to know that people think they have all the answers nowadays. Chances are you DONT have all the answers and you dont know all the facts. Unless you've really studied ghosts and other supernatural phenomena deeply, chances are you know barely anything about the subject. You can go ahead and trash all of what Ive said, but that doesnt make it fake. HOW are you going to automatically diss the existence of something you know nothing about? Really I am curious since you seem to have all the answers here about all of the rules of every dimension. Beings from different dimensions are not going to follow our laws because they are NOT from our dimension. I dont think you understand that point. Its not bad logic as you are calling it; only a confession that we do not know how they work, or how they exist. You cannot trash all phenomena as such by only providing the results of one test. Did you think that would convince me? Im starting to feel like im being trolled. Unless you've witnessed and were present in every situation in this world where such phenomena was involved, you cannot speak for them. Im not trying to sound like a dick here either. It just stuns me when people think they have all the answers. By the way, it would be nice if you could answer the question from my last post, I saw you ignored it.

Originally Posted by Sageous

A small interruption... I've heard the following bit of wisdom several times recently:



What does that even mean? That, because we did not exist before we existed, then we will not exist after we exist? That because we once (necessarily) did not care about existence, or rather non-existence, that we need not care about it now? That, when we did not exist, we didn't think about coming life, so now that we do exist, we should not ponder our death? That, because we didn't exist once, we are not permitted to exist again? Or maybe that because it at some point did not exist, our living consciousness is incapable of building something that might survive the death of its corporeal creator and vehicle? Or perhaps that because we once didn't exist, the nature of our current existence is irrelevant, no matter what we think? Or does it mean something else altogether?

I don't know; I have a feeling it means nothing at all. It just sounds cool, like something a stoned college student would say at 3am, to the astonishment of his equally stoned buddies. Thinking that we did not exist before we were born and then attaching the obvious fact that, since we didn't exist, we could not care about that non-existence, seems absurd to me, and does nothing to sway or temper a current concern about death.

Why should the fact that we didn't know or fear anything before we were born hold any sway at all about what we're thinking about now that we are born, have an identity, and perhaps might wonder bout what happens to us after death? It might sound pretty, or even logical, but it really means nothing.

Also, let's say there is something after death, some form of survival of consciousness. Why would that survival be negated because we once did not exist?

You mean the people who didn't get to live a life? The stillborns? The people who were never taken into the corporeal realm? Your brain needs to develop a personality, and that usually begins at age 3. I'm not sure about people who died before 3 or just weren't alive at all.