Thread: Time, Space, and the OBE - Share your theory

It's also possible that space and time are an illusion on this physical plane as well... but yeah, I've always looked at AP as travel to another plane of existence.

Originally Posted by blade5x

It's also possible that space and time are an illusion on this physical plane as well... but yeah, I've always looked at AP as travel to another plane of existence.

The only question I have is if time and space don't exist then why do we still feel time within a dream? If a dream is just that time shouldn't be relative yet it still is.

Each plane is governed by completely different law. Maybe time and space are laws like no other, and only bound to this plane. Maybe every other plane of existence is governed by completely different laws in place of time. The universe is infinate.

I suppose I have a more biological perspective, seeing as this phenomenon can also happen in dreams and not just out of body experiences. When we are awake, the physical plane "keeps the pace" of time, and our consciousness's sense of time is at the mercy of it. But when we are asleep, our consciousness's sense of time is no longer bound by this objective, external rate. Instead, the only thing governing our sense of time is our mind.

This is a plausible explanation of how hours of dream time can fit into a few minutes of sleep. Would we be able to tap into someone’s mind and watch a real-time broadcast of such a dream, I assume it would appear to be happening in fast-forward. But to the mind in that dream, these events would appear to be happening at a normal pace, and thus you have the discrepancy in the passage of time.

Of course this is all speculation on my part, but it seems like a very reason explanation if I do say so myself. According to this theory, the only boundary of how long a dream could last, besides the skill of the person doing the dreaming, is that of the speed of neural firings (or electricity). I don’t know how long a 10 minute dream would seem to last if one’s neurons were firing at full capacity (or on full “fast-forward”), but I assume it would be a very long time.

Did that make any sense?

Originally Posted by ethen

I suppose I have a more biological perspective, seeing as this phenomenon can also happen in dreams and not just out of body experiences. When we are awake, the physical plane "keeps the pace" of time, and our consciousness's sense of time is at the mercy of it. But when we are asleep, our consciousness's sense of time is no longer bound by this objective, external rate. Instead, the only thing governing our sense of time is our mind.

This is a plausible explanation of how hours of dream time can fit into a few minutes of sleep. Would we be able to tap into someone’s mind and watch a real-time broadcast of such a dream, I assume it would appear to be happening in fast-forward. But to the mind in that dream, these events would appear to be happening at a normal pace, and thus you have the discrepancy in the passage of time.

Of course this is all speculation on my part, but it seems like a very reason explanation if I do say so myself. According to this theory, the only boundary of how long a dream could last, besides the skill of the person doing the dreaming, is that of the speed of neural firings (or electricity). I don’t know how long a 10 minute dream would seem to last if one’s neurons were firing at full capacity (or on full “fast-forward”), but I assume it would be a very long time.

Did that make any sense?

Yes, it does.

If things can be manipulated with "psi" (or whatever it is) on the physical plane, then it must in some way exist in the physical realm. It is possible to actually see energy constructs. Assuming this energy is the same energy that makes up your ethereal body and the astral planes and real-time zone, then it must be connected with the physical dimention somehow. This energy could be a force so powerful that the physical dimention could be manipulated in anyway by it. This force could defy the laws of time and space. If someone can move a cup with psychokinesis, or manipulate the laws of probibility, then what says the energy they are using can't defy the very laws which hold this dimention together?

These questions are so mind-boggling that sometimes I feel as if my head is going to explodeshock:!!!!

What is this force?

Originally Posted by ethen

I suppose I have a more biological perspective, seeing as this phenomenon can also happen in dreams and not just out of body experiences. When we are awake, the physical plane "keeps the pace" of time, and our consciousness's sense of time is at the mercy of it. But when we are asleep, our consciousness's sense of time is no longer bound by this objective, external rate. Instead, the only thing governing our sense of time is our mind.

This is a plausible explanation of how hours of dream time can fit into a few minutes of sleep. Would we be able to tap into someone’s mind and watch a real-time broadcast of such a dream, I assume it would appear to be happening in fast-forward. But to the mind in that dream, these events would appear to be happening at a normal pace, and thus you have the discrepancy in the passage of time.

Of course this is all speculation on my part, but it seems like a very reason explanation if I do say so myself. According to this theory, the only boundary of how long a dream could last, besides the skill of the person doing the dreaming, is that of the speed of neural firings (or electricity). I don’t know how long a 10 minute dream would seem to last if one’s neurons were firing at full capacity (or on full “fast-forward”), but I assume it would be a very long time.

Did that make any sense?

There is another flaw to your theory. Not that I know too much about leaving your own dream and entering someone elses (infact, I know absolutely nothing about it), but if you enter someone elses dream, is it fast forward? You can't attune your perceptions of time to that of anothers dream if you enter the dream all of a sudden and that person is operating a dream at a very fast pace. Or maybe the brain atuomatically attunes your perceptions of time to whats logical. Maybe the dream realm is a representational realm of collective memory (or whatever the source of "the All" is, and is completely bendable and accessable by the human brain when lucid.

According to Robert Bruce, dreaming is not only related to the physical brain, but also to the energy body of the dreamer.

Maybe the dream realm is a representational realm of collective memory (or whatever the source of "the All" is, and is completely bendable and accessable by the human brain when lucid.

Collective memory could apply to the dream world, but I would think one would have to be lucid and experienced to tap into the vast network of collective memory in a dream. In a normal, non-lucid dreams, I'm sure it only builds off of your own memory, accept for rare cases.

Originally Posted by wer

According to Robert Bruce, dreaming is not only related to the physical brain, but also to the energy body of the dreamer.



Collective memory could apply to the dream world, but I would think one would have to be lucid and experienced to tap into the vast network of collective memory in a dream. In a normal, non-lucid dreams, I'm sure it only builds off of your own memory, accept for rare cases.

This theory of Bruce would make sense. What if Memory is only stable due to information networking in the brain (that is, physical information proccessing). I remember a philosopher who stated that we all pull our mental traits from a vast gathering of collective memory (mental traits that have already existed and manifested, building to more vaster memory on the physical realm and then returing to collective memory with even more "mental traits"). What if a curtain amount of collective memory (the amount needed to support a human brain) is only stable because a concious brain is collecting information. The collective memory and trhe brain would both rely on eachother in this case.

This would also support a theory of life after death. When we die, we continue to have brain activity for 14-16 minutes. What if we possibly enter a dreaming state after death (just like we always do when we become unconsious and still own an operating brain). Therefore, someone "goes to heaven" or the afterlife for 14-16 physical minutes, and then the brain dies. Sense the brain is no longer subconsiously operating, collective memory is not supported and travels back to the main source of collective memory with new built-upon collective memory. This would also support reincanation. For those who have seen there past lifes, maybe they have accessed the collective memory unit of the perceptions of an entire life stored in the main source of memory, therefore allowing them to view it willingly.

They say the afterlife is forever, so if 14-16 minutes is forever then god damn! i thought it was 6 minutes for the brain to shutoff after death, though?

edit- This doesn't make sense what i said actually...spirits would be in the physical time so there would be a countdown then forever, so much for what i just said.

To awakened_mind and wer:

One of the reasons I hold the belief that I do is because it doesnt assume the existance of telekinesis/PSI, dream-linking, or anything else that conflicts with our current level of sceintific understanding. I'm not saying those things don't exist, or aren't possible, it's just that none of those things are necessary to the validity of the theory I proposed. To keep things simple, id rather leave those things out of the equation.

In short, what I was describing was strictly a cognitive phenomenon, not anything metaphysical. Our mental sense of time is different from time itself, though when awake, the two tend to sync up. This is because, when awake, we get our sense of time from objective physical cues, making our sense of time relatively objective as a result.

When we are asleep and dreaming however, our sense of time is completely debased and detached from the objectivity of physical time, meaning that the passage of time can seem to happen much faster or slower than it waking counterpart. Its more of a mental "glitch" than anything metaphysical. Its hard to explain, especially if my last post didn't do a sufficent job.

Look at it this way. Imagine the difference between a movie being played at a normal (physical) speed, and the same movie being played in fast-forward. From a physical point of view, only the physical, or normal, speed setting seems realistic and objective. But from the point of view of the movie, the passge of time is relative only to itself, and completely detached from the external pace of time. When we are awake, our sense of time is set to "normal", which makes an hour seem like an hour. But when we are asleep, our sense of time is relative only to itself, which means that regardless of if its in fast-forward or slow-mo, to the movie the passage of time is the same. Thus, the only limitation to how much "time" you can squeeze out of your dreams is just how fast you can make your fast-forward.

To recap, dream time only seems distorted in contrast with waking time. In reality, both are relative to themselves, meaning that as soon your consciousness is no longer bound by waking time, then its subject to a whole other (subjective) paradigm of time, one independent of the physical paradigm.

Anybody ever read any of Jane Roberts Seth Material? I think for anyone interested in the nature of time and space, And the nature of conciousness itself. Jane Roberts Seth books, are a must read.

Originally Posted by Caradon

Anybody ever read any of Jane Roberts Seth Material? I think for anyone interested in the nature of time and space, And the nature of conciousness itself. Jane Roberts Seth books, are a must read.

I've heard she's good...

Charles Jung and his theory of the collective-unconscious is also wonderful. I would recommend any of his books to anyone who wishes to learn more of consciousness and the human psyche.

http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/...pt.ogg&wiki=en

not really sure if its been said alreay but the way i see time as an illusion is when you look at a flies life it is much shorter than ours and much more fast pasted. a day to us could be a lifetime to a bug. also for telekinshdgfj..too lazy to spell.. i could be wrong but the human body has + and - charges in it so if we were to say concintrate a negative charge to the end of our hand and another object with a positive charge they would repell.?????