Any Real Dreamers Here??

[Wisher]

Aye yay yay carumba (sp?) It is mind-blowing how few people are actually DREAMERS. And there has GOTTA be more out there. This is the kind of post that will get ignored/angry backlash which is fine as long as there are true dreamers in the mix too who speak up. (ACCEPTING PRIVATE MESSAGES AND SKYPE MESSAGES TOO) LUCID DREAMING IS NOT A HOBBY PLAYTHING PAST TIME LUCID DREAMING IS REALITY LUCID DREAMING WILL TRANSFORM THE WORLD BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES The baby food of techniques and basic definitions is great...for the babies. But there is DEFINITELY some people who are eating real food. People who are awake. Oii........if this post falls on deaf ears whatever. For the love of DREAMS though. If you are awake say something. Where are you? What do you know? Let's grow this thing.

[Raipat]

erm. Yep

[OneUp]

I have to agree, lucid dreaming is a reality most definitely, but one of many as we are multi dimensional beings. To say the least, my very first lucid dream changed how I perceived the world entirely. It was like I had started life over on a fresh slate. I have to say, I consider myself a "real dreamer". OneUp

[Sageous]

I have to ask, Wisher, about the purpose of this thread. Are you trying to establish a heirerarchy of dreamers, to determine that some of us are somehow better than others? Are you trying to say that people taking their first steps toward lucidity are somehow not dreamers? If so, then I'm not sure that is a good idea. We are all dreamers here; if a certain number of us have yet to reach the point where they understand or accept the deeper potentials of LD'ing (potentials to which I adhere and regularly champion, BTW), that may only mean that these dreamers haven't yet reached that point of understanding. To announce that you are better than others because you believe you are "awake" may be a bit disingenuous, I think: we all achieve higher levels of awareness at our own pace, and we may all get there eventually, especially if we're practicing LD'ing. A curious kid seeking -- through techniques, curiosity, and her own excitement -- to have LD's may not yet have achieved your criterion for being "awake," but she is on her way... that person is no less a "dreamer" than you; the only difference is that she has only begun her journey. I may be qualified for the club you wish to assemble, but I don't think I want to be a member. To deem that people who are not yet fully "awake" are somehow not dreamers, and not on a path toward being fully "awake" does not seem the best way to push forward the concept -- and way of life -- of LD'ing. tl;dr: We are all real dreamers, Wisher; our level of "awakeness" is more a reflection of LD'ing experience than it is one of interest or choice; to elevate yourself above the rest because you feel you've discovered a greater purpose embedded in the practice might only separate you from that purpose and other dreamers, leaving you alone in your superiority.

[Lang]

Aye yay yay carumba (sp?) It is mind-blowing how few people are actually DREAMERS. And there has GOTTA be more out there. Like others have said, We are all dreamers. Origins! Am the only person that I know in my family who can recall my dreams and who is an active natural lucid dreamer. However, just because I can do that, doesn't mean I see myself invincible and better than everyone else. I'm still learning new things here from even the beginners. If I've too, have found my true Mindfulness and the Spiritual Potential of Humanity through lucid dreaming, I may never tell you. Is this just a rant thread? What's the purpose of this thread?

[kadie]

Idk wishers, I can see where some would take offense at the idea that some here are playing to be dreamers. I have already been through that new and exciting stage of learning lucid dreaming and the powerful benefits of it as well as meditation. 30 years ago it was so exciting, but I had no one to share it with like yall have here. I'm happy for those that are experiencing different levels of control and finding new techniques. I'm kinda past the stage of getting too excited about LD now. Even obe or Astral projection is not so exciting these days because everyone argues about it here. I wish this place had a feeling of unity rather than a bunch of perfectionist know it alls, but that's what it seems to be turning into. I miss the dream games that used to go on in this section because there were times that I felt very connected to some participants during those games. I thought it was great to build skills and new interests in the beyond dreaming world, then the sceptics and naysayers would jump in and break the spell. Anyway, I can kind of see why you wrote this thread too.

[Dreamythrina]

If 'real dreamer' is for someone who dream(ing) daily, and could do LD naturally or something like that (what am i writing about-_-) ... Maybe it's me. ^^

[snoop]

I think it'd make more sense and be far less condescending to ask if there are any extreme dreamers or something like that. The only reason you could possibly want to refer to people that don't try as hard as you as not being "real" dreamers is to feel better about yourself, or because you have a far less shallow motive but didn't think things through when deciding on the terminology you used (like wanting to find people who are willing to discuss dreaming as in depth as you want to discuss it because you both care about dreaming so much). Honestly this website is already that place, in my opinion, but it's not up to me (and shouldn't be) if you simply want to get the contact info of some people for off-site discussion. Just found it weird that you'd make the main post so... uninviting, hoping to invite "real" dreamers to take part in a discussion with you and all.

[hermine_hesse]

[QUOTE=kadie;2200273]I miss the dream games that used to go on in this section because there were times that I felt very connected to some participants during those games. I thought it was great to build skills and new interests in the beyond dreaming world./QUOTE] Um, yes! If you start a dream game thread, I'm on board.

[Eonnn]

Being awake comes in many forms such as heightened awareness, awake to the corrupt government and fraudulent banking system and all the conspiracies, being awake to the spiritual reality, being awake to the illusion of reality, and of course being awake in your dreams. I am definitely awakened to all this but as the saying goes "ignorance is bliss" sometimes I wish I didn't know all the things I do as it would make life so much easier. Being awake can open many doors but it also closes one that you can't go back into, because once you're awake there is no going back. I get the sense that those who can lucid dream will find it easier to awaken in the afterlife. Buddhists talk about this most people will be stuck in limbo or not realise they are dead but lucid dreamers will have an advantage and be able to recognize it then change their environment however they see fit.

[Wisher]

Yea it's true Eonnn waking up is both a blessing and a curse. Yet an adventure full of excitement no less. The Lucid Dreamers described in the OP not only have an advantage in the afterlife but also in this life as well (sounds like you already know that though). Curious to hear more of your story OneUp, that sounds like you had a paradigm shift. Waking up with a new world view. That is at least very similar to what the OP had in mind. We've talked about some interesting things before. It's good to hear from you The viewpoints so far are appreciated still hoping for more responses in line with the OP Thanks!

[Sageous]

^^ So, given that you only responded to the folks who agreed with you (all two of them), have you chosen to simply ignore what the rest of us have respectfully said and push on as if the majority of posts on this thread questioned the validity of creating a superior class of "Real Dreamers?" don't exist? I guess that's fine, since its your thread, but I think doing so sort of diminishes its validity, and might simply create an echo-chamber of "real dreamers" who feel they are better than the rest of us... is that really what you want to do? I mean no disrespect, Wisher, and this is not "angry backlash," per your OP, but I think you really need to get past your OP's clear indication that "few people are actually DREAMERS," or people who are "awake," and the rest are apparently inferior and do not matter. If you want to start such a club that's certainly your prerogative, but I think you ought to do so honestly by at least acknowledging that there are a few actual, awake, dreamers who might feel this is a step in the wrong direction.

[Windhover@]

I have to agree, lucid dreaming is a reality most definitely, but one of many as we are multi dimensional beings. To say the least, my very first lucid dream changed how I perceived the world entirely. It was like I had started life over on a fresh slate. I had the same experience, first LD was a turning point in my life and it wasn't definitely a 'coincidence' more of like awakening alarm went off? lol and then it was endless, change after change, inner transformation taking its place, accelerating when the time just goes by... rocketing thru space if you're willing to open up to Universe! @Sageous I'm pretty sure Wisher isn't talking about just 'dream' dream. LDing is a shorcut, yes, but that doesn't mean you can wake up only thru LDing. He meant dream awakening and/or inner transformation(if that's the right term) that makes you hungry for the answers of universe and find how creation works. And no, no one is better than the other just cuz one is awaken. Each level of awareness needs experience and lessons. Not everyone should be 'forced' to wake up.. I can see why this is uninviting, but why do you feel inferior? everyone will wake up eventually like you said.. everyone is equal. thats my 2 cents. lets just hope that wisher clarifies it.

[Sageous]

I can see why this is uninviting, but why do you feel inferior? everyone will wake up eventually like you said.. everyone is equal. thats my 2 cents. lets just hope that wisher clarifies it. I never said I felt inferior, Windhover. Also, as long as I'm here: I'm pretty sure I understood what Wisher meant in his OP, and he hasn't corrected me yet... I was only questioning the use of a concept like "real dreamers" apparently to sift out a group of people who feel their dreaming experience is more valid than others. Also, there is nothing in the OP about things like "inner transformations" or "being hungry for the answers of the universe;" only lucid dreaming was mentioned. And nobody was talking about forcing anyone to wake up, BTW. I'm sensing a "Lighten up, Sageous!" in my near future, so I'll leave this at that. As I said before, it's Wisher's thread, and he can do whatever he wants here; I won't mar it further with unwanted opinions or suggestions.

[gab]

Where does the classification of "real" and "not real" dreamer comes from? Why would there even be such a classification? Sounds like something made up.

[Wisher]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAHaazwWWOOOOOOOOOO JAM Some how I couldn't sign on for a few weeks. BACK! REAL Dreaming gab, is understanding life itself too is a dream. I assume u kno that ready tho. Basic plain and fake lucid dreaming is the idea that life is somehow different from dreaming. U seem to be a strong dreamer. So u might understand that already. That said please, I am definitely a new start at dreaming truly and lucidly. Is there anyone here who coherently knows how to dream up the life they experience as they please? If not us dreamers will persist on our own to find a solution to our hope. Love you all and thank-you. If you know somebody interested in our inquiry, let them know we are here THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! **Awakened forever, -Wisher

[Lang]

Buddhists talk about this most people will be stuck in limbo or not realise they are dead but lucid dreamers will have an advantage and be able to recognize it then change their environment however they see fit. Yeah, I understand that. One time, I almost skipped going back to school and boarded a bus that was going to the airport to Tibet. I met up with a group of people who were going there but, I didn't end up going. REAL Dreaming gab, is understanding life itself to is a dream. I assume u know that ready tho. Basic plain and fake lucid dreaming is the idea that life is somehow different from dreaming. How do you know that you are not in limbo, Now? Not seeing is believing? I have to ask, how do we know that you are not just posting this thread because you haven't had a lucid dream or a non-lucid dream in ages? Or at least that's what I feel like is going on here with your posts, somehow. I think that people are saying, is that we all perceive things differently and whether or not our dreams are "real" or "not real" really should be solely up to the dreamers themselves. To be honest Wisher, it sounds like you have a lot to learn about enlightenment before we can embark on your spiritual endeavor. (IMO)

[Dreammouse]

I sense your excited, that's cool I'm excited too! With regard to what you are saying - I'm not sure about the nature of reality, one thing I have learnt is that as soon as you think you have all the answers the universe likes to shake you upside down till what you thought you knew has fallen out your head and is in a big heap on the floor. The fun bit for me is deciding what to put back in again.... that and knowing there is no rush, no pressure as it's all experience

[Wisher]

Hmmm Well, still not quite the responses I was hoping for. But some good responses still. Dreaming that one day even if it’s years from now other waking dreamers will see this. If nothing else this thread serves as a nod saying we’re out here and practicing. And it would be great to hear from you! For those of you who are angry/annoyed about this that’s a good thing. Be passionate, passion drives great things. I pray your passion drives you to dream greater than you've ever dreamed And those of you who are already searching for the mysteries that lie beyond the surface of dreaming CHARGE ON! And of course, those of you who have already discovered some of the alchemical gold beyond just dreams and reality congrats and keep up the journey! It's a vast sea. A great adventure. That said cheers, to all types of dreamers and a Happy New Years

[Sensei]

Wisher, what answer would elicit a positive response on the "dreamer" front? I find it weird that the title of dreamer lies in something beyond dreams. In the way you put it, we would all be dreamers except those "risen above it" as you claim. :3

[cooleymd]

Well then let me announce myself as a proud fake lucid dreamer according to wisher's definition I like to tell people "if you can dream it, you can dream it", and even those with no LD skill but even basic dream recall (even by luck) will know this is true. Is the reverse true: "if you can reality it, you can reality it", I suppose someone like 'the Donald' might think so: he just sets his mind to something in the real world and poof a big o'l wall just pops into existence at no cost to him. But for most people this certainly isn't the case. Believing that LDs are equally real physical alternate realities to the one we all share is pretty much the definition of pure b.s. like OBE (Out of their minds Experience) Reality is different than dreams because it persists, and unlike 'Shared Dreams' it is actually shared. So now let me define those who are awake as I understand what you're saying: Those who are lucid dreamers, but who are 'awake' are people who when they dream have most of their brains/minds turned off. However, thru the skill of lucid dreaming are able to turn back on a small portion of their brains/minds. Those who have awoken, are the ones who when they return to reality, and the rest of their brains/minds (in so far as they function) have fully rejoined their consciousness, and are completely back on, can find no difference between the two states.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Just my two cents, here, Wisher, but I think the problem (or: the reason you get some of the negative responses that you get) is your choice in terminology. The message you are trying to convey is betrayed by the words you're using. Your notion of "better;" "fake;" "greater;" "real;" etc; really serves no true purpose or function but to be condescending. It's really counter-intuitive to any desire for true conversation, because it's arbitrary and, actually, quite arrogant. What someone uses for a hobby or entertainment can be, in itself, a very personal and philosophical thing. That it doesn't appeal to you doesn't make it any less important, or your own pursuits any more important. If you really want to learn from others and have some understanding of psyche; psychology and 'reality', you should drop the pretense and learn how to convey your position with a little humility. With that being said: could you be more specific? What, exactly, are you looking to speak with "real" dreamers here about? Is there a specific aspect of 'deeper dreaming' that you would like to discuss? Could/would you be less vague?

[Original Poster]

Nah I'm a fake dreamer.

[slash112]

Hahahah this thread is amazing to read... I woke up recently during a crisis. My spiritual journey has been going on my whole life, but it really started not long before I joined DV (so 9-10 years ago). I have always been really curious about everything, and I have always wanted to understand myself and the universe better. So I dedicated my life to finding that, but it wasn't until my crisis about 6 months ago that for some reason I realized that myself and the universe is one in the same thing. So of course I started seeing everything else in it's nakedness. And boy does the naked truth change everything. I can see from the responses here that it takes an awoken individual to understand the words of another awoken individual. I find myself wondering why other people can't see it, but then I remember that I used to be blind too... But yeah O has a point, your words come across as condescending from everyone else's perspective haha. But I know you don't mean it like that at all. It's weird that people like us have to use very strange language, but it's only because the ideas we want to convey are actually incommunicable with words, you can only throw out words that hold the power to spark an understanding, and only those ready to understand will understand. At the end of the day though we are all on different levels of awareness. I still have a long way to go, I'm constantly meditating to resolve a bunch of paradoxes in my mind. And I'm constantly growing my consciousness. But the veil has been lifted my friend, and I knew as soon as I seen this thread that you've removed your veil too. (warning to everyone else: yes you have the power to lift your veil, but you might not particularly want to, it's not the best thing for everyone and it's a painful experience that requires the greatest commitment you can imagine. I am very greatful to be "awakening" as we call it, but you don't need to be "awake" to live a full life, we all have a purpose and you should always strive towards your greatest version) I have only just the other week crossed paths with another free spirit, which was surreal. It was like talking to a mirror (in a way I was). We are pretty damn sure we've known each other for a long long long time, and we hope we're twin spirits cause that would be amazing. All this before we've even met, we've only spoken over text. But we're just going with the flow and continuing to grow ourselves. Oh god there's so much I could say about it all, but I get the feeling I don't need to say too much, cause you feel me anyways, don't you? EDIT: Actually I want to say more. Wisher, I don't know about you but I am still so freshly woken up that I'm still going through the pain. It doesn't bother me that I am, I'm just observing it, I just wanted to share that with you. But tbh the pain is starting to fade, and by the way you have played your part in that. Also I just realized that everyone here getting butthurt is indeed fantastic. Because it's showing a truth, the truth that truth causes pain, the psyche just doesn't want to know about it lol. But the universe does want to know about it, and that's why me and you have decided to open ourselves up to the truth. Interesting, right?

[Sensei]

@slash, maybe it is because of your "awakening" that is able to see why people think that wisher sounds condescending. I mean, what levels must you have reached to connect to someone that high and us so low? This is BD, so consider this hyperbole to set up the next part. all joking aside, you guys are literally using antonyms and saying that they are the same and you have to use "weird language" to get it across. devils advocate here, you guys are talking about 2 different surreal experiences that you cant explain with words. one, the only word you can think of as "waking" and one that wisher describes as "dreaming". just because it is surreal and you have to dance around words does not make it the same. take for instance, my "awakening" or new understanding Take a deep breath. Hold it.... hold it.... hold it... Now let it go. Let's multiply that feeling of euphoric release a hundred times -- a thousands times -- a million times over. The whole of reality has become clear and vivid, not that I see better, but that I see what I see now and know more what I know. That is exactly how I would describe my pizza last night. It opened my eyes to new possibilities.