Thread: OBE from the hypnagogic sensations stage!!

I have been able to have 4 lucid dreams till know, as normally i will use WBTB method, I will wake up after 4 hours of sleep and put my headphones on listening to sleep hypnosis willing to induce sleep paralysis, after 40 minutes or so i get bored of waiting though i get the tingling and numbness feel all over my body so I will get my headphones of my ears, roll over and try to fall asleep. After 1-3 minutes i start to get the hypnagogic sensations, i see thing and hear things sometimes, usually I will enter my dream from this stage. This is the technique I've been using for lucid dreaming is it WILD or what? I'm not really sure. So my main question is: is it possible to have an obe from the hypnagogic sensations stage??? (Excuse my bad English)

When I do wild, then I use the imagination- which I make during hypnagogic stage.
When I do OBE, then I don't use imagination. I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind.

I read some experiences where someone mentioned OBE exit to the dream. I'm not sure what to think about that statement. If I use imagination for "leaving" my body, then It wouldn't be OBE, it would be WILD. There is quite big difference between OBE and WILD

Originally Posted by Psionik

There is quite big difference between OBE and WILD

Maybe not...

Originally Posted by Psionik

When I do wild, then I use the imagination- which I make during hypnagogic stage.
When I do OBE, then I don't use imagination. I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind.

I read some experiences where someone mentioned OBE exit to the dream. I'm not sure what to think about that statement. If I use imagination for "leaving" my body, then It wouldn't be OBE, it would be WILD. There is quite big difference between OBE and WILD

So the technique I'm using is called WILD?????
though I don't use any imagination, the dream just starts by it self after the hypnagogic stage.


Then you'r saying it's possible to have an OBE during the hypnagogic stage, but can you explain to me what do you mean by "I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind".

Originally Posted by sysssej

So the technique I'm using is called WILD?????
though I don't use any imagination, the dream just starts by it self after the hypnagogic stage.


Then you'r saying it's possible to have an OBE during the hypnagogic stage, but can you explain to me what do you mean by "I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind".

But you wrote that you concentrate on hypnagogic sensations... I can enter WILD from that state... though I didn't wait to that stage, it is much more secure to imagine tunnel or some image much sooner. Less chance to fall asleep. OBE feels much different.

First I relax my body with help of concentration till I nearly lose feeling of body, with help of the same concentration on the body my mind focuses. My consciousness is constantly observing the body and feels how it is heavy and warm. My mind is constantly concentrating to deepen the relaxation (heaviness and warmth). I feel the effect and I make it stronger. That is feedback. The mind goes nearly blank. There is no visual effects. No sounds... If I want to force separation from body, then I can send impulses to my hand to make rolling moves with it. Once I feel second body I separate. Again with no imagination. I only roll out of body like I'm going from bed after sleep. Many times I'm prepared for separation to that extent that I fly out of body without feeling of bonds. The feeling of being bonded to body is present mainly when I force separation. It feels like something is trying to pull me back into body. It is not hard to break that bonds. In past, it was inconvenient. But it is of no consequence for long time now.

VinceField - I agree there is possibility of connection between dreams and OBE. I read somewhere that dream is also in astral dimension, but in lower reaches of it. And also imaginations shrouds the view of astral. What I can say from my experiences, consciousness attained by OBE is superior to that in physical world and dreams.
I also read scientific explanations that OBE is special case of dream. But dream only. My experiences tells me, it is something more... but I don't have proof strong enough to confirm it.

Originally Posted by Psionik

But you wrote that you concentrate on hypnagogic sensations... I can enter WILD from that state... though I didn't wait to that stage, it is much more secure to imagine tunnel or some image much sooner. Less chance to fall asleep. OBE feels much different.

First I relax my body with help of concentration till I nearly lose feeling of body, with help of the same concentration on the body my mind focuses. My consciousness is constantly observing the body and feels how it is heavy and warm. My mind is constantly concentrating to deepen the relaxation (heaviness and warmth). I feel the effect and I make it stronger. That is feedback. The mind goes nearly blank. There is no visual effects. No sounds... If I want to force separation from body, then I can send impulses to my hand to make rolling moves with it. Once I feel second body I separate. Again with no imagination. I only roll out of body like I'm going from bed after sleep. Many times I'm prepared for separation to that extent that I fly out of body without feeling of bonds. The feeling of being bonded to body is present mainly when I force separation. It feels like something is trying to pull me back into body. It is not hard to break that bonds. In past, it was inconvenient. But it is of no consequence for long time now.

VinceField - I agree there is possibility of connection between dreams and OBE. I read somewhere that dream is also in astral dimension, but in lower reaches of it. And also imaginations shrouds the view of astral. What I can say from my experiences, consciousness attained by OBE is superior to that in physical world and dreams.
I also read scientific explanations that OBE is special case of dream. But dream only. My experiences tells me, it is something more... but I don't have proof strong enough to confirm it.

When attempting a WILD, after I finish meditating, I roll over and start imagining a tunnel until I enter the dream?..........if that's what u mean!

When attempting an OBE, the feeling i get (numbness, tingling and heaviness) I have to make it stronger and relax more, that's what I want my mind to think and concentrate on, until my mind's blank, I have no thought coming in neither sounds or visuals?...........if that's what u mean!

Originally Posted by sysssej

When attempting a WILD, after I finish meditating, I roll over and start imagining a tunnel until I enter the dream?..........if that's what u mean!

When attempting an OBE, the feeling i get (numbness, tingling and heaviness) I have to make it stronger and relax more, that's what I want my mind to think and concentrate on, until my mind's blank, I have no thought coming in either sounds or visuals?...........if that's what u mean!

For WILD I use mainly imagination of moving in the tunnel, or flash imagination. Flash imagination is based on the hypnagogic images, visions of light and dark dust, waves, lines, and others things one can see when he has closed eyes. My imagination can make very short lived images from this... This is easier than making starting image from scratch and hold it for long time while refining it.

For OBE, imagination is something turning OBE into dream. It is sad when one loses himself... I feel it like great loss of consciousness, loss of reality... You must not lose yourself when your mind is blank. Otherwise you will lose your will to travel out of body and you will fall into meditation. In that state I exist, I feel... but there are no thoughts, no feeling of timeflow... it is so blissful, peaceful... that I can't break it willingly. It will only dissipate on its own.

The main difference, in theory, between WILDS and OBEs is the dimension of reality that one projects to- WILDS supposedly taking place in a fabricated dream reality, OBEs taking place in a more objective nonphysical consensus reality. The problem is, it's not always so easy to tell which is which, and sometimes there seems to be shades of both present during any given experience, so it may not be a strictly "one or the other" deal.

Originally Posted by VinceField

The main difference, in theory, between WILDS and OBEs is the dimension of reality that one projects to- WILDS supposedly taking place in a fabricated dream reality, OBEs taking place in a more objective nonphysical consensus reality. The problem is, it's not always so easy to tell which is which, and sometimes there seems to be shades of both present during any given experience, so it may not be a strictly "one or the other" deal.

Thank u for your explanation I'll attempt to have an OBE tonight, I hope it goes well!

OBE can turn into dream by imagination. OR imagination can be used to enhance the OBE.

A dream can be an OBE.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

OBE can turn into dream by imagination. OR imagination can be used to enhance the OBE.

A dream can be an OBE.

Maybe that's true because the last lucid dream i had, it was a dream about an OBE if that makes sense.

Hello

I have had thousands and thousands of obes and astral projections(wilds) and some I am still trying to place. I can definitely tell the difference between each experience and I will tell you this much also, obes and wilds are on two different sides of the spectrum. A wild you can fly over tree tops, explore unknown places and can do many magical things, but these are just wilds. Normally in a wild, you will see things out of context or different then they should be in real life and will cause you to question these changes in the dream. When I obe, I sit up in my bed or sometimes get pulled out by others my body is just lying in bed and my wife next to me. I have listened to my wife's dreams at night as I am moving down the hall way. When obe you can not stay out of your body very long and will get pulled back within only a few minutes. Once I return to body I can then roll into a wild and onto another experience but nothing even close to the sensation of just leaving your own body.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello

I have had thousands and thousands of obes and astral projections(wilds) and some I am still trying to place. I can definitely tell the difference between each experience and I will tell you this much also, obes and wilds are on two different sides of the spectrum. A wild you can fly over tree tops, explore unknown places and can do many magical things, but these are just wilds. Normally in a wild, you will see things out of context or different then they should be in real life and will cause you to question these changes in the dream. When I obe, I sit up in my bed or sometimes get pulled out by others my body is just lying in bed and my wife next to me. I have listened to my wife's dreams at night as I am moving down the hall way. When obe you can not stay out of your body very long and will get pulled back within only a few minutes. Once I return to body I can then roll into a wild and onto another experience but nothing even close to the sensation of just leaving your own body.

Powessy

I think it's important to note that when you say "you" above, you should actually be saying "I," as myself and many others have experiences and conclusions that are different from the ones you've described, so these are not necessarily universal phenomenon you are speaking of, but simply what you have experienced yourself.

Originally Posted by VinceField

I think it's important to note that when you say "you" above, you should actually be saying "I," as myself and many others have experiences and conclusions that are different from the ones you've described, so these are not necessarily universal phenomenon you are speaking of, but simply what you have experienced yourself.

The problem is the term obe which I am using correctly and many are not. Out of body is just that if you were to die and lift from your body what would you see. When I leave my body I am in this world and see the things around me the way they really are and not all this other stuff just in my souls mind. I see a distinct separation between these type experiences that many do not and I see how many here and other places group their experiences incorrectly. I am unsure of anyone's experiences and can only speak for myself but I think this applies to everyone else also. Out of body means out of body. astral and wild is in body or in souls mind this is simple. Ask yourself when you die and exit your body what will you see is it this wild experience or what, how long after till you realize you are flying around in your souls mind and wake up in the veil?

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

The problem is the term obe which I am using correctly and many are not. Out of body is just that if you were to die and lift from your body what would you see. When I leave my body I am in this world and see the things around me the way they really are and not all this other stuff just in my souls mind. I see a distinct separation between these type experiences that many do not and I see how many here and other places group their experiences incorrectly. I am unsure of anyone's experiences and can only speak for myself but I think this applies to everyone else also. Out of body means out of body. astral and wild is in body or in souls mind this is simple. Ask yourself when you die and exit your body what will you see is it this wild experience or what, how long after till you realize you are flying around in your souls mind and wake up in the veil?

Powessy

Please provide the source of your definition for "out-of-body experience."

Originally Posted by VinceField

Please provide the source of your definition for "out-of-body experience."

hello VinceField

The simplest definition is in my case the right definition, which states;

out-of-bod·y ex·pe·ri·ence
noun
noun: out-of-body experience; plural noun: out-of-body experiences

a sensation of being outside one's own body, typically of floating and being able to observe oneself from a distance.

and also found in this link Out-of-body experience - definition of out-of-body experience by The Free Dictionary

I think over the years and in all the different experiences people keep placing there experiences into the wrong basket. Out of body is what it says, out of body not in Disney land or where ever you and others are going. I have played in these places thousands of times and I will tell you they are not obe. Even the term oobe is another egg in the wrong basket these are all astral projections within the souls mind not within the veil. Again if your obe is not of the real world around you then this is in the souls mind and more of a LD experience.

Powessy

As for my source they are not alive to tell you this, but they are seen by many I can give hundreds of these accounts.

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello

I have had thousands and thousands of obes and astral projections(wilds) and some I am still trying to place. I can definitely tell the difference between each experience and I will tell you this much also, obes and wilds are on two different sides of the spectrum. A wild you can fly over tree tops, explore unknown places and can do many magical things, but these are just wilds. Normally in a wild, you will see things out of context or different then they should be in real life and will cause you to question these changes in the dream. When I obe, I sit up in my bed or sometimes get pulled out by others my body is just lying in bed and my wife next to me. I have listened to my wife's dreams at night as I am moving down the hall way. When obe you can not stay out of your body very long and will get pulled back within only a few minutes. Once I return to body I can then roll into a wild and onto another experience but nothing even close to the sensation of just leaving your own body.

Powessy

I do OBE for about 30 years with more than 1000 separations, but what I can tell you, OBE doesn't need to be separation to place where is your physical body located. You can separate to different environments randomly...
Also length of time is not so short as you suggest. Sure, when I was newbie I had separation that lasted for minutes only... but there is a way to stabilize your experience. You must train concentration, detachment and observer state of mind. My individual separations now reach average length of 20-30 minutes and some goes beyond 90 minutes(real time measurements are not very exact but when I know when I started, then approximately how long the starting process took then my longest OBEs lasted approximately 90 minutes.). I train to stay longer. Preferentially as long as I want to.
OBE doesn't mean you can't fly. One must take decision sometime. If I feel the flight is destabilizing my consciousness, then I chose other ways of moving around. Applying of the WILL must be very carefully measured. The quality of the WILL needs to be guarded all the time.

Hello Psionik

What you are describing is only an astral projection to me this is not obe as it is defined. If you are any where other then in your home and in your room able to look at your own body the environment is exactly the way it is in the waking times, then that is not an obe by definition. I Can fly and change my shape in obe but it is "out of body" not in mind like astral projection or wild. I can stay in wild for many hours and have experienced different worlds in those environments. I have had hundreds of separations per year sometimes with many per night and over thirty years of them you are not telling me anything new. The problem with what you are describing to me above as your experiences, is not "out of body" but in mind experiences. The soul has whats called a treemend the holder of the higher mind and a matrix of sorts this is where your experiences are taking place at. When you enter into your treemend you can have sleep paralysis, experience separation, but it is you being pulled into your treemend and into different realities with in yourself as yourself.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello Psionik

What you are describing is only an astral projection to me this is not obe as it is defined. If you are any where other then in your home and in your room able to look at your own body the environment is exactly the way it is in the waking times, then that is not an obe by definition. I Can fly and change my shape in obe but it is "out of body" not in mind like astral projection or wild. I can stay in wild for many hours and have experienced different worlds in those environments. I have had hundreds of separations per year sometimes with many per night and over thirty years of them you are not telling me anything new. The problem with what you are describing to me above as your experiences, is not "out of body" but in mind experiences. The soul has whats called a treemend the holder of the higher mind and a matrix of sorts this is where your experiences are taking place at. When you enter into your treemend you can have sleep paralysis, experience separation, but it is you being pulled into your treemend and into different realities with in yourself as yourself.

Powessy

I describe my experiences with OBE through state of consciousness. I can feel the differences of it... Astral is lowest OBE. Higher is mental. Above that is budhic, but with that I have only one or two experiences. Maybe half of my experiences are connected with seeing my body laying down on my bed. I can travel to other places by flying, running, walking... to places where I can also project from start on. I'm not good at making targeted separation... since my separation technique is passive in that regard. I did some research in that, but with very little progress. Instead of OBE it tends to lead to creation LD.
There is no difference if I separate directly to some place, or I separate next to my body and then walk(run, fly... sometimes teleport) to that places. The only thing I don't like is that if the place is further away, I might have problem to get there. But state of consciousness is the same if I start my experience beside physical body or if I separate to some other place. I can also distinguish sublevels inside astral projection... With mental projection I have only maybe 3-5% of my experiences and I experienced also some levels there.

Originally Posted by Psionik

I describe my experiences with OBE through state of consciousness. I can feel the differences of it... Astral is lowest OBE. Higher is mental. Above that is budhic, but with that I have only one or two experiences. Maybe half of my experiences are connected with seeing my body laying down on my bed. I can travel to other places by flying, running, walking... to places where I can also project from start on. I'm not good at making targeted separation... since my separation technique is passive in that regard. I did some research in that, but with very little progress. Instead of OBE it tends to lead to creation LD.
There is no difference if I separate directly to some place, or I separate next to my body and then walk(run, fly... sometimes teleport) to that places. The only thing I don't like is that if the place is further away, I might have problem to get there. But state of consciousness is the same if I start my experience beside physical body or if I separate to some other place. I can also distinguish sublevels inside astral projection... With mental projection I have only maybe 3-5% of my experiences and I experienced also some levels there.

hello Psionik

The word obe is the term that seems to confuse me. You use the word Budhic this would better describe my understanding of obe and this is 90% of my experiences which are followed almost every time by the mental projections. When I leave my body I am in this world as myself my soul self and nothing is out of place. I hear voices 24/7 and speak to many different entities trying to understand the different types of spiritual astral and obe experiences, I am constantly being pulled into different experiences to see how they are put together.

The thing I am witness to is the treemend and how it works this is what they want me to see and understand. Within the treemend is the soul and a world can be created within it, what is here can also be there, what you hear here you can also hear there. With in the treemend is the astral plains and each is unique to each person. If you were to have a budhic experience nothing around you will change, you can move as a spirit and touch and feel things but nothing changes. Over the thousands of these type experiences I watch only for changes in the environment to tell me what type of experience I am having. When I astral project I will move into my treemend and then into this other reality, if I am used to seeing my body it will be there also but as I wander through the house I will notice things that are not right and out of place this is within the mind. The reason for the treemend is to hold your soul your true self in it is your capsule and the way you can become yourself in your next reincarnation. I always think of the me inside of my treemend as being my template to who I really am, and within my higher mind which holds all my past records to myself.

I have many other experiences then this but at the budhic level and those that include others. I spend time in the minds of demons, sucubus, incubus and shadow people which I group together with one name and that is sparteil. They will land on me and pull me just slightly out of body and then they will touch me in the growing causing the mind to react. The touching is not sex it is the method they use to stimulate the experience, I haev experienced this enough time to understand this now quite well. When they pull me into their minds their realities and abilities to create astral environments is phenomenal and fun as they become someting inside of themselves. The sparteil holds souls within them that are copies of others they have visited. When I enter into them I enter into someone else mind and become myself and themselves together. The sparteil asks questions in images and environments so you have to think quick to answer them with in the mind of someone else also thinking so this is not an easy process. If the sparteil can find answers they will create a copy of you inside of them and they will return this makes the experiences more clear each time.

I have also had experiences where time stops, but is also an obe of sorts. This type of experience is complicated to explain but is the place I saw all my children prior to their births.

Powessy

Hello
Well... for me is OBE like comming home. I don't care exactly to which dimension I separate. It is always to somewhere where I can find the inner peace, where I can train my consciousness, where I can find new things... I may not be sure if that is how it is felt after death, but I don't care for that, that is not important. Death is only a borderline. Existence is eternal in here and now. For me is more important to see whether there is really higher dimensions. Whether I'm not imagining things. I have small proofs... like seeing the future a sometimes... or things that happened at the time when I was out of body. Like when I was with friend when I went to university. I saw her in laboratory , she had problems with furnace calibration. I described that to her and it was exact description. Or when I saw a hidden gift(it was meant for me and my brother but at later time)- a microcomputer Atari800XL with peripheries. I could describe where it was hidden and what was exactly was hidden there. Or when I saw one of my daughters maybe 10 years sooner than she was born. I didn't even know my wife at the time of that OBE. And many other things. Whenever I have doubts I only need to remember those experiences.
What is in my mind- for me that is an LD. OBE is much different to the LD

hello Psionik

I have always just experienced and have never shared my experiences with anyone, people just look at me funny when I explain them. I like obe in my understanding of it because it is the removal of all things it is freedom and something i desire to feel all the time. I don't wish to leave this reality only to see all that it has to offer. There are only five dimensions and then veils between each of them like a buffer. I am unsure yet to how this is done but I believe that we live in one mind that holds all these universes or dimensions all together. If you wish to see these other dimensions you will not find it inside of yourself you will need to travel outside of yourself. The LD will hold no answers in the end as the experiences do not show other true realities only those that are of our own making. I travel another road seeking answers being shown to me from the others in the veil. I am complacent in the hopes to one day understand who or what I am in side of myself. I hope you well in your travels and findings as they one day lead you to the truth you seek.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

hello Psionik

I have always just experienced and have never shared my experiences with anyone, people just look at me funny when I explain them. I like obe in my understanding of it because it is the removal of all things it is freedom and something i desire to feel all the time. I don't wish to leave this reality only to see all that it has to offer. There are only five dimensions and then veils between each of them like a buffer. I am unsure yet to how this is done but I believe that we live in one mind that holds all these universes or dimensions all together. If you wish to see these other dimensions you will not find it inside of yourself you will need to travel outside of yourself. The LD will hold no answers in the end as the experiences do not show other true realities only those that are of our own making. I travel another road seeking answers being shown to me from the others in the veil. I am complacent in the hopes to one day understand who or what I am in side of myself. I hope you well in your travels and findings as they one day lead you to the truth you seek.

Powessy

How can you be so positive--so entirely sure--that what you think you are experiencing is truly the way things are? The mind is very convincing of what it wants to believe. Delusions can and often are touted as truth just because how convincing the mind can make them be. The way I see it, is that the more certain what you believe is true, the more skeptical you should be of this truth's truthfulness. Total certainty in something throws up a red flag for me, especially when it comes to altered states of consciousness and alterations of reality. The fact you believe it so much without question should make you take a step back and wonder if what you are experiencing is truly as you believe it to be.

Originally Posted by snoop

How can you be so positive--so entirely sure--that what you think you are experiencing is truly the way things are? The mind is very convincing of what it wants to believe. Delusions can and often are touted as truth just because how convincing the mind can make them be. The way I see it, is that the more certain what you believe is true, the more skeptical you should be of this truth's truthfulness. Total certainty in something throws up a red flag for me, especially when it comes to altered states of consciousness and alterations of reality. The fact you believe it so much without question should make you take a step back and wonder if what you are experiencing is truly as you believe it to be.

Hello snoop

Why am I so convinced this is done this way is because of the things i have experienced. Her is a typical experience for me that has happen over thirty times this year alone over the last year, this does not include the thousands of times that I did not understand the experience in prior years. first of all 2 years ago I became myself inside of my self, this means nothing to you but it is why I have the experiences I have and feel the things I do.

Sleep paralysis is not always a precursor to the shadows entering into my dreams. The shadow will climb on top of me and then place their head into mine leaning into me. I have had them come up throuhg the bed or enter in at my feet and move up throuhg my body. When they enter into my mind the astral experience starts and the world starts to be created. I will start to see many things going on and whole series of events moving from one scene to another. I allow the astral experience to flow I do not change it in anyway, not that I can't I have destroyed entire levels and worlds with only a thought watching it shrivel up in the middle of it and disappear. As I come back outside of my mind the shadow is still with me and we can talk through imaginations in the mind. I try to answer their questions about things they have. Last night the shadow that I was with me was asking about a disagreement with the company over an advertisement problem that worked within a mouth wash business. I saw that the shadow was confused with this as he displayed the mouth wash container as a upside down bottle with a stray in it like an animal waterier. The waterier had bubbles coming out of it showing me that they were washing their teeth. The shadow does not leave after this they will just move into me and connected at the head and then they come and press on the top of my crown and I can feel the shadow pull up into my shape and all goes quiet. The night before the astral and shadow that came entered me into another world. I was in a hotel walking throuhg it looking for someone and walked into this room. I got the feeling of hurry and then scared and then they sight of a sink with hoses hooked up to them had come off and the room was flooding. I ran through the hotel and came to a room where I found a woman and child sleeping and then the bed fluffed out spreading out in millions of parts the astral fragmented and I was then opening a room where people were listening to something these men all appeared to me to be gay. I had trouble explaining most of this but Water seem to be a problem for them and teeth. They only see dreams and can only find information in things bothering people, things we dream about. The problem with the shadows is they pull the experiencing person into a soul that is within them. These souls are souls that can not become something again so they are erased and rewritten over and over again as they become you people having these experiences. When your experience is over the soul now contains a lot of your memories in it and this soul is not dead it just becomes something in their minds to act out a world never ending.

When they on the outside of me need to explain something to me they bring me into them as myself and this allows the experience to be fully seen and understood with only my feelings in them.

When these experiences end I can close my eyes and see the formation of the higher mind. I see many moving shapes within layers moving within each other and just looking a little harder I can see them moving on the other side of the higher mind as their world is still ongoing. I get to see this, I get to experience this all the time as they show me this. Now this only explains the shadows.

So how do I know you are experiencing in your own mind. Because I can read peoples experiences and they are the same things I do and see all the time they are done in the mind, the astral plains are done in either shadows or they are done in treemends. How do you know what you are experiencing is true? I have read hundreds of dream views in many sites looking for answers to what I am experiencing and have not found the answers yet. I have thousands of treemends moving on my crown that can talk to me on my eyes in pendulum motions. The longer the treemend the more souls it contains and I have some that reach my butt. Each treemend holds a world in it or parts of worlds in them from the many souls they hold. many experiencers talk about people in your projections, ones that talk and say things and some you kill and destroy. When a soul is killed in a dream it just becomes nothing inside of itself to become itself again or as some people call it responing.
How do I understand the treemends. I have entered into the treemends plus this has been shown to me in a astral projection from them, those outside of me. I was in between two buildings and it was raining. I looked down and saw frogs jumping in the puddles forming. I had a sack in my hand and started to reach down and grab the frogs placing them into the sack. As the sack filled I was looking across the way and all of a sudden something bit down on my hand. At the top of the full sack was a fish with very sharp teeth biting down on my hand. This symbolism goes along with the treemends, at the opening of each there is a shadow protecting it. the bag in the astral experience symbolizes the treemend and the fish being the shadow. These are only one of many ways this has been shown to me.

I have my experiences and they align with my voices and they align with the things i am being shown. I look for patterns in things and if they do not match up I do not waste my time trying to understand these thoughts. If something happens to you once this is by chance but when it happens to you a hundred times you start to see the pattern and start to understand them. I see something different and I am experiencing something different, I could be wrong 100 percent but maybe if I can get someone to go to the places I have been, then they too could understand me.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

hello Dthoughts

I left my ego at the door many years ago. Why is it when someone tries to explain something to others that they do not understand their butt-ox puckers up and they become offended. This is simple, there are many thousands of experiences written on this forum and many on others I have already spent many hours reading, I have done that many of thousands of times over, these type experiences. Do you think I would come here and proclaim something to this crowd without understanding what it is I am talking about.
Look it is no big deal do as you have been doing you all seem happy playing with these experiences. I was only trying to tell you the world is not flat, that is all.

Powessy

I hope yo didn't get offendd there, that would really make you look stupid

Originally Posted by powessy

I have my experiences and they align with my voices and they align with the things i am being shown. I look for patterns in things and if they do not match up I do not waste my time trying to understand these thoughts. If something happens to you once this is by chance but when it happens to you a hundred times you start to see the pattern and start to understand them. I see something different and I am experiencing something different, I could be wrong 100 percent but maybe if I can get someone to go to the places I have been, then they too could understand me.

Powessy

Ye, I never really got the vibe that Powessy claimed to know things with absolute certainty, he used the words belief a lot in his initial statements! Don't know how Snoop got that from him.