Thread: OBE from the hypnagogic sensations stage!!

When I do wild, then I use the imagination- which I make during hypnagogic stage.
When I do OBE, then I don't use imagination. I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind.

I read some experiences where someone mentioned OBE exit to the dream. I'm not sure what to think about that statement. If I use imagination for "leaving" my body, then It wouldn't be OBE, it would be WILD. There is quite big difference between OBE and WILD

Originally Posted by Psionik

There is quite big difference between OBE and WILD

Maybe not...

Originally Posted by Psionik

When I do wild, then I use the imagination- which I make during hypnagogic stage.
When I do OBE, then I don't use imagination. I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind.

I read some experiences where someone mentioned OBE exit to the dream. I'm not sure what to think about that statement. If I use imagination for "leaving" my body, then It wouldn't be OBE, it would be WILD. There is quite big difference between OBE and WILD

So the technique I'm using is called WILD?????
though I don't use any imagination, the dream just starts by it self after the hypnagogic stage.


Then you'r saying it's possible to have an OBE during the hypnagogic stage, but can you explain to me what do you mean by "I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind".

The main difference, in theory, between WILDS and OBEs is the dimension of reality that one projects to- WILDS supposedly taking place in a fabricated dream reality, OBEs taking place in a more objective nonphysical consensus reality. The problem is, it's not always so easy to tell which is which, and sometimes there seems to be shades of both present during any given experience, so it may not be a strictly "one or the other" deal.

Originally Posted by VinceField

The main difference, in theory, between WILDS and OBEs is the dimension of reality that one projects to- WILDS supposedly taking place in a fabricated dream reality, OBEs taking place in a more objective nonphysical consensus reality. The problem is, it's not always so easy to tell which is which, and sometimes there seems to be shades of both present during any given experience, so it may not be a strictly "one or the other" deal.

Thank u for your explanation I'll attempt to have an OBE tonight, I hope it goes well!

Originally Posted by sysssej

So the technique I'm using is called WILD?????
though I don't use any imagination, the dream just starts by it self after the hypnagogic stage.


Then you'r saying it's possible to have an OBE during the hypnagogic stage, but can you explain to me what do you mean by "I use feeling and feedback from that feelings to change state of the mind".

But you wrote that you concentrate on hypnagogic sensations... I can enter WILD from that state... though I didn't wait to that stage, it is much more secure to imagine tunnel or some image much sooner. Less chance to fall asleep. OBE feels much different.

First I relax my body with help of concentration till I nearly lose feeling of body, with help of the same concentration on the body my mind focuses. My consciousness is constantly observing the body and feels how it is heavy and warm. My mind is constantly concentrating to deepen the relaxation (heaviness and warmth). I feel the effect and I make it stronger. That is feedback. The mind goes nearly blank. There is no visual effects. No sounds... If I want to force separation from body, then I can send impulses to my hand to make rolling moves with it. Once I feel second body I separate. Again with no imagination. I only roll out of body like I'm going from bed after sleep. Many times I'm prepared for separation to that extent that I fly out of body without feeling of bonds. The feeling of being bonded to body is present mainly when I force separation. It feels like something is trying to pull me back into body. It is not hard to break that bonds. In past, it was inconvenient. But it is of no consequence for long time now.

VinceField - I agree there is possibility of connection between dreams and OBE. I read somewhere that dream is also in astral dimension, but in lower reaches of it. And also imaginations shrouds the view of astral. What I can say from my experiences, consciousness attained by OBE is superior to that in physical world and dreams.
I also read scientific explanations that OBE is special case of dream. But dream only. My experiences tells me, it is something more... but I don't have proof strong enough to confirm it.

OBE can turn into dream by imagination. OR imagination can be used to enhance the OBE.

A dream can be an OBE.

Originally Posted by Psionik

But you wrote that you concentrate on hypnagogic sensations... I can enter WILD from that state... though I didn't wait to that stage, it is much more secure to imagine tunnel or some image much sooner. Less chance to fall asleep. OBE feels much different.

First I relax my body with help of concentration till I nearly lose feeling of body, with help of the same concentration on the body my mind focuses. My consciousness is constantly observing the body and feels how it is heavy and warm. My mind is constantly concentrating to deepen the relaxation (heaviness and warmth). I feel the effect and I make it stronger. That is feedback. The mind goes nearly blank. There is no visual effects. No sounds... If I want to force separation from body, then I can send impulses to my hand to make rolling moves with it. Once I feel second body I separate. Again with no imagination. I only roll out of body like I'm going from bed after sleep. Many times I'm prepared for separation to that extent that I fly out of body without feeling of bonds. The feeling of being bonded to body is present mainly when I force separation. It feels like something is trying to pull me back into body. It is not hard to break that bonds. In past, it was inconvenient. But it is of no consequence for long time now.

VinceField - I agree there is possibility of connection between dreams and OBE. I read somewhere that dream is also in astral dimension, but in lower reaches of it. And also imaginations shrouds the view of astral. What I can say from my experiences, consciousness attained by OBE is superior to that in physical world and dreams.
I also read scientific explanations that OBE is special case of dream. But dream only. My experiences tells me, it is something more... but I don't have proof strong enough to confirm it.

When attempting a WILD, after I finish meditating, I roll over and start imagining a tunnel until I enter the dream?..........if that's what u mean!

When attempting an OBE, the feeling i get (numbness, tingling and heaviness) I have to make it stronger and relax more, that's what I want my mind to think and concentrate on, until my mind's blank, I have no thought coming in neither sounds or visuals?...........if that's what u mean!

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

OBE can turn into dream by imagination. OR imagination can be used to enhance the OBE.

A dream can be an OBE.

Maybe that's true because the last lucid dream i had, it was a dream about an OBE if that makes sense.

Originally Posted by sysssej

When attempting a WILD, after I finish meditating, I roll over and start imagining a tunnel until I enter the dream?..........if that's what u mean!

When attempting an OBE, the feeling i get (numbness, tingling and heaviness) I have to make it stronger and relax more, that's what I want my mind to think and concentrate on, until my mind's blank, I have no thought coming in either sounds or visuals?...........if that's what u mean!

For WILD I use mainly imagination of moving in the tunnel, or flash imagination. Flash imagination is based on the hypnagogic images, visions of light and dark dust, waves, lines, and others things one can see when he has closed eyes. My imagination can make very short lived images from this... This is easier than making starting image from scratch and hold it for long time while refining it.

For OBE, imagination is something turning OBE into dream. It is sad when one loses himself... I feel it like great loss of consciousness, loss of reality... You must not lose yourself when your mind is blank. Otherwise you will lose your will to travel out of body and you will fall into meditation. In that state I exist, I feel... but there are no thoughts, no feeling of timeflow... it is so blissful, peaceful... that I can't break it willingly. It will only dissipate on its own.

Originally Posted by Psionik

For WILD I use mainly imagination of moving in the tunnel, or flash imagination. Flash imagination is based on the hypnagogic images, visions of light and dark dust, waves, lines, and others things one can see when he has closed eyes. My imagination can make very short lived images from this... This is easier than making starting image from scratch and hold it for long time while refining it.

For OBE, imagination is something turning OBE into dream. It is sad when one loses himself... I feel it like great loss of consciousnes, loss of reality... You must not lose yourself when your mind is blank. Otherwise you will lose your will to travel out of body and you will fall into meditation. In that state I exist, I feel... but there are no thoughts, no feeling of timeflow... it is so blissful, peacefull... that I can't break it willingly. It will only dissipate on its own.

Now everything makes sense and Thanks again for your replays........I hope this works for me

Hello

I have had thousands and thousands of obes and astral projections(wilds) and some I am still trying to place. I can definitely tell the difference between each experience and I will tell you this much also, obes and wilds are on two different sides of the spectrum. A wild you can fly over tree tops, explore unknown places and can do many magical things, but these are just wilds. Normally in a wild, you will see things out of context or different then they should be in real life and will cause you to question these changes in the dream. When I obe, I sit up in my bed or sometimes get pulled out by others my body is just lying in bed and my wife next to me. I have listened to my wife's dreams at night as I am moving down the hall way. When obe you can not stay out of your body very long and will get pulled back within only a few minutes. Once I return to body I can then roll into a wild and onto another experience but nothing even close to the sensation of just leaving your own body.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello

I have had thousands and thousands of obes and astral projections(wilds) and some I am still trying to place. I can definitely tell the difference between each experience and I will tell you this much also, obes and wilds are on two different sides of the spectrum. A wild you can fly over tree tops, explore unknown places and can do many magical things, but these are just wilds. Normally in a wild, you will see things out of context or different then they should be in real life and will cause you to question these changes in the dream. When I obe, I sit up in my bed or sometimes get pulled out by others my body is just lying in bed and my wife next to me. I have listened to my wife's dreams at night as I am moving down the hall way. When obe you can not stay out of your body very long and will get pulled back within only a few minutes. Once I return to body I can then roll into a wild and onto another experience but nothing even close to the sensation of just leaving your own body.

Powessy

I think it's important to note that when you say "you" above, you should actually be saying "I," as myself and many others have experiences and conclusions that are different from the ones you've described, so these are not necessarily universal phenomenon you are speaking of, but simply what you have experienced yourself.

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello

I have had thousands and thousands of obes and astral projections(wilds) and some I am still trying to place. I can definitely tell the difference between each experience and I will tell you this much also, obes and wilds are on two different sides of the spectrum. A wild you can fly over tree tops, explore unknown places and can do many magical things, but these are just wilds. Normally in a wild, you will see things out of context or different then they should be in real life and will cause you to question these changes in the dream. When I obe, I sit up in my bed or sometimes get pulled out by others my body is just lying in bed and my wife next to me. I have listened to my wife's dreams at night as I am moving down the hall way. When obe you can not stay out of your body very long and will get pulled back within only a few minutes. Once I return to body I can then roll into a wild and onto another experience but nothing even close to the sensation of just leaving your own body.

Powessy

I do OBE for about 30 years with more than 1000 separations, but what I can tell you, OBE doesn't need to be separation to place where is your physical body located. You can separate to different environments randomly...
Also length of time is not so short as you suggest. Sure, when I was newbie I had separation that lasted for minutes only... but there is a way to stabilize your experience. You must train concentration, detachment and observer state of mind. My individual separations now reach average length of 20-30 minutes and some goes beyond 90 minutes(real time measurements are not very exact but when I know when I started, then approximately how long the starting process took then my longest OBEs lasted approximately 90 minutes.). I train to stay longer. Preferentially as long as I want to.
OBE doesn't mean you can't fly. One must take decision sometime. If I feel the flight is destabilizing my consciousness, then I chose other ways of moving around. Applying of the WILL must be very carefully measured. The quality of the WILL needs to be guarded all the time.

Hello Psionik

What you are describing is only an astral projection to me this is not obe as it is defined. If you are any where other then in your home and in your room able to look at your own body the environment is exactly the way it is in the waking times, then that is not an obe by definition. I Can fly and change my shape in obe but it is "out of body" not in mind like astral projection or wild. I can stay in wild for many hours and have experienced different worlds in those environments. I have had hundreds of separations per year sometimes with many per night and over thirty years of them you are not telling me anything new. The problem with what you are describing to me above as your experiences, is not "out of body" but in mind experiences. The soul has whats called a treemend the holder of the higher mind and a matrix of sorts this is where your experiences are taking place at. When you enter into your treemend you can have sleep paralysis, experience separation, but it is you being pulled into your treemend and into different realities with in yourself as yourself.

Powessy

Originally Posted by VinceField

I think it's important to note that when you say "you" above, you should actually be saying "I," as myself and many others have experiences and conclusions that are different from the ones you've described, so these are not necessarily universal phenomenon you are speaking of, but simply what you have experienced yourself.

The problem is the term obe which I am using correctly and many are not. Out of body is just that if you were to die and lift from your body what would you see. When I leave my body I am in this world and see the things around me the way they really are and not all this other stuff just in my souls mind. I see a distinct separation between these type experiences that many do not and I see how many here and other places group their experiences incorrectly. I am unsure of anyone's experiences and can only speak for myself but I think this applies to everyone else also. Out of body means out of body. astral and wild is in body or in souls mind this is simple. Ask yourself when you die and exit your body what will you see is it this wild experience or what, how long after till you realize you are flying around in your souls mind and wake up in the veil?

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello Psionik

What you are describing is only an astral projection to me this is not obe as it is defined. If you are any where other then in your home and in your room able to look at your own body the environment is exactly the way it is in the waking times, then that is not an obe by definition. I Can fly and change my shape in obe but it is "out of body" not in mind like astral projection or wild. I can stay in wild for many hours and have experienced different worlds in those environments. I have had hundreds of separations per year sometimes with many per night and over thirty years of them you are not telling me anything new. The problem with what you are describing to me above as your experiences, is not "out of body" but in mind experiences. The soul has whats called a treemend the holder of the higher mind and a matrix of sorts this is where your experiences are taking place at. When you enter into your treemend you can have sleep paralysis, experience separation, but it is you being pulled into your treemend and into different realities with in yourself as yourself.

Powessy

I describe my experiences with OBE through state of consciousness. I can feel the differences of it... Astral is lowest OBE. Higher is mental. Above that is budhic, but with that I have only one or two experiences. Maybe half of my experiences are connected with seeing my body laying down on my bed. I can travel to other places by flying, running, walking... to places where I can also project from start on. I'm not good at making targeted separation... since my separation technique is passive in that regard. I did some research in that, but with very little progress. Instead of OBE it tends to lead to creation LD.
There is no difference if I separate directly to some place, or I separate next to my body and then walk(run, fly... sometimes teleport) to that places. The only thing I don't like is that if the place is further away, I might have problem to get there. But state of consciousness is the same if I start my experience beside physical body or if I separate to some other place. I can also distinguish sublevels inside astral projection... With mental projection I have only maybe 3-5% of my experiences and I experienced also some levels there.

Originally Posted by Psionik

I describe my experiences with OBE through state of consciousness. I can feel the differences of it... Astral is lowest OBE. Higher is mental. Above that is budhic, but with that I have only one or two experiences. Maybe half of my experiences are connected with seeing my body laying down on my bed. I can travel to other places by flying, running, walking... to places where I can also project from start on. I'm not good at making targeted separation... since my separation technique is passive in that regard. I did some research in that, but with very little progress. Instead of OBE it tends to lead to creation LD.
There is no difference if I separate directly to some place, or I separate next to my body and then walk(run, fly... sometimes teleport) to that places. The only thing I don't like is that if the place is further away, I might have problem to get there. But state of consciousness is the same if I start my experience beside physical body or if I separate to some other place. I can also distinguish sublevels inside astral projection... With mental projection I have only maybe 3-5% of my experiences and I experienced also some levels there.

hello Psionik

The word obe is the term that seems to confuse me. You use the word Budhic this would better describe my understanding of obe and this is 90% of my experiences which are followed almost every time by the mental projections. When I leave my body I am in this world as myself my soul self and nothing is out of place. I hear voices 24/7 and speak to many different entities trying to understand the different types of spiritual astral and obe experiences, I am constantly being pulled into different experiences to see how they are put together.

The thing I am witness to is the treemend and how it works this is what they want me to see and understand. Within the treemend is the soul and a world can be created within it, what is here can also be there, what you hear here you can also hear there. With in the treemend is the astral plains and each is unique to each person. If you were to have a budhic experience nothing around you will change, you can move as a spirit and touch and feel things but nothing changes. Over the thousands of these type experiences I watch only for changes in the environment to tell me what type of experience I am having. When I astral project I will move into my treemend and then into this other reality, if I am used to seeing my body it will be there also but as I wander through the house I will notice things that are not right and out of place this is within the mind. The reason for the treemend is to hold your soul your true self in it is your capsule and the way you can become yourself in your next reincarnation. I always think of the me inside of my treemend as being my template to who I really am, and within my higher mind which holds all my past records to myself.

I have many other experiences then this but at the budhic level and those that include others. I spend time in the minds of demons, sucubus, incubus and shadow people which I group together with one name and that is sparteil. They will land on me and pull me just slightly out of body and then they will touch me in the growing causing the mind to react. The touching is not sex it is the method they use to stimulate the experience, I haev experienced this enough time to understand this now quite well. When they pull me into their minds their realities and abilities to create astral environments is phenomenal and fun as they become someting inside of themselves. The sparteil holds souls within them that are copies of others they have visited. When I enter into them I enter into someone else mind and become myself and themselves together. The sparteil asks questions in images and environments so you have to think quick to answer them with in the mind of someone else also thinking so this is not an easy process. If the sparteil can find answers they will create a copy of you inside of them and they will return this makes the experiences more clear each time.

I have also had experiences where time stops, but is also an obe of sorts. This type of experience is complicated to explain but is the place I saw all my children prior to their births.

Powessy

Hello.
Well, Budhic dimension looks like universe full of soul-stars. Filled with warmth of love, and gentle light. Time flows very strangely there. It feels like it stands most of time, but it can also flow in different speeds forward and backward. It is feeling... The timeflow can be felt in higher dimensions... The higher the better it is felt. Probably because mind need to be ordered much more than in lower dimensions. Classic body is nonexistent... I identified myself as soulstar, and I somewhat knew that other soulstars are other people. There is stillness there. Existence there is difficult for me, It needs very fine control... feelings which are used instead thoughts need to be very ordered... fine controlled with only light touches... Stronger feelings or application of will is felt like disturbances destabilizing the existence there. Time I spend there felt like being there for eternity. I probed my possibilities with help of experimenting with applying will lightly... I tried balancing the feelings... At the end I received feeling(vision) from outside that I had to fly to one of soul-stars and intermesh with it. It felt as eternity till I found the way how to make my soulstar to move to that other soulstar. I didn't manage to fulfill that quest yet. As I said many times, it is difficult for me to do directed separations, not only to specific places, but also to the specific dimensions. Adjusting the consciousness to higher dimensions is hard thing to do...
Mental dimension looks somewhat like astral one with one distinction. It is totally free of anything from animal life(together with human) There are plants, trees... sometimes I also see there houses, cities... But everything is still. In pristine condition. Sparkling with light. Even air itself is sparkling. It is very solitary experience. Very... peacefull. I separate there usually in front of some cavern nearly on the top of large hill, from where I see majestic waterfalls a few kilometers in front of me. It is impossible to go from there other way than with help of flying... I also managed a few times to separate to my house. But it was empty every time. I could never see physical body from there. It is probably too far from physical to see it. The consciousness is less ordered than in Budhic, but more than in astral dimension. Balancing of consciousness is much less difficult for me once I manage to project there. Feelings can be more defined, it is not as difficult to exist there when compared with Budhic dimension.
Astral is relatively simple. After years of experiences is not as difficult to balance my consciousness as it was when I started... There are nearly no animals, but there are some people. They are sleeping... maybe because I travel through nights Interesting fact is, the lower and less ordered level of astral dimension, the more beings there is. I saw there also some devil like creatures, pity beings. I tried to help some of them but it is for vain. They don't understand... they are fearing the light I bring. I managed to learn how to move on the levels of astral dimensions, it is not as difficult as it looked sooner. But to move from astral to mental dimension(or from mental to budhic) is something like undergoing the quantum leap. There is barrier... and that barrier is state of consciousness. It needs to change too radically. I can't stabilize it during the process as for now. I need more training to manage that. I remember the feeling of mind states in those higher dimension and I need to manage to hold continuity of consciousness and balance during the discontinuity of that quantum leap between dimensions.

I live normal life, without hearing things
Things you are describing looks like lower astral for me.
Interesting experiences with demons you have... When I look on my experiences, low level beings have fear of me. Therefore I don't have many experiences with them. When I'm tuning to high astral levels also angel like beings can't stay my proximity. The higher level of astral I'm tuned in, the less rational those beings seems to be, and the more they are looking like somnambulists... The less beings I see in my surroundings.
I managed to be within body other human a few times, but there was no thinking possible while I was in right state of mind. One can communicate with feelings, compulsions...

Hello Psionik

Like I said your experiences are in mind and not out of body these are all astral travels with different lucidity. If you are not in the real you are in mind even your description of budhic is in mind. Out of body is like death those that talk of seeing their bodies being operated on in the hospital watching from above. I invite these demons into my soul this is why I came to this site in search of them. I call them into me daily in hopes to find them all and have done so since I was thirteen. before the voices there was never anything in my experiences other then me and the shadows in the veil then back to body and into your astral experiences. If you have seen the shadows and spoke to them in the here, in our world behind the veil you are out of body. Try to understand you are only entering into your souls mind these places you visit are memories of those people you see on those lower levels. If you really want to know the truth there are no levels they are just experiences within yourself, it is how you perceive them to be, this the level you make them. When I first started to get out of body I would exit and hover up to the ceiling and just remain there for as long as possible staying longer and longer each time. After each experience I would enter into body and then astral project this always showed me the difference between these experiences. Some nights my body would vibrate almost apart as I would have these experiences all night long back and forth. The things you talk about are the experiences I do not care to have they are the weakest of the things I see and experience but endure during this time calling them into me. I see worlds form inside of my mind now and can see how they are formed on many levels.

I don't really care about any of this as many will never understand. The things I seek find your minds during your experiences marking your soul as unique, one I call an allowed soul. In the few posts I have made here I have had several encounters from them so I know they are still around.

Your experiences sound really cool so keep up the hard work getting to all those lofty levels. I will remain on the lower levels and work with them to figure them out.

Powessy

Hello
Well... for me is OBE like comming home. I don't care exactly to which dimension I separate. It is always to somewhere where I can find the inner peace, where I can train my consciousness, where I can find new things... I may not be sure if that is how it is felt after death, but I don't care for that, that is not important. Death is only a borderline. Existence is eternal in here and now. For me is more important to see whether there is really higher dimensions. Whether I'm not imagining things. I have small proofs... like seeing the future a sometimes... or things that happened at the time when I was out of body. Like when I was with friend when I went to university. I saw her in laboratory , she had problems with furnace calibration. I described that to her and it was exact description. Or when I saw a hidden gift(it was meant for me and my brother but at later time)- a microcomputer Atari800XL with peripheries. I could describe where it was hidden and what was exactly was hidden there. Or when I saw one of my daughters maybe 10 years sooner than she was born. I didn't even know my wife at the time of that OBE. And many other things. Whenever I have doubts I only need to remember those experiences.
What is in my mind- for me that is an LD. OBE is much different to the LD

hello Psionik

I have always just experienced and have never shared my experiences with anyone, people just look at me funny when I explain them. I like obe in my understanding of it because it is the removal of all things it is freedom and something i desire to feel all the time. I don't wish to leave this reality only to see all that it has to offer. There are only five dimensions and then veils between each of them like a buffer. I am unsure yet to how this is done but I believe that we live in one mind that holds all these universes or dimensions all together. If you wish to see these other dimensions you will not find it inside of yourself you will need to travel outside of yourself. The LD will hold no answers in the end as the experiences do not show other true realities only those that are of our own making. I travel another road seeking answers being shown to me from the others in the veil. I am complacent in the hopes to one day understand who or what I am in side of myself. I hope you well in your travels and findings as they one day lead you to the truth you seek.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

The problem is the term obe which I am using correctly and many are not. Out of body is just that if you were to die and lift from your body what would you see. When I leave my body I am in this world and see the things around me the way they really are and not all this other stuff just in my souls mind. I see a distinct separation between these type experiences that many do not and I see how many here and other places group their experiences incorrectly. I am unsure of anyone's experiences and can only speak for myself but I think this applies to everyone else also. Out of body means out of body. astral and wild is in body or in souls mind this is simple. Ask yourself when you die and exit your body what will you see is it this wild experience or what, how long after till you realize you are flying around in your souls mind and wake up in the veil?

Powessy

Please provide the source of your definition for "out-of-body experience."

Originally Posted by VinceField

Please provide the source of your definition for "out-of-body experience."

hello VinceField

The simplest definition is in my case the right definition, which states;

out-of-bod·y ex·pe·ri·ence
noun
noun: out-of-body experience; plural noun: out-of-body experiences

a sensation of being outside one's own body, typically of floating and being able to observe oneself from a distance.

and also found in this link Out-of-body experience - definition of out-of-body experience by The Free Dictionary

I think over the years and in all the different experiences people keep placing there experiences into the wrong basket. Out of body is what it says, out of body not in Disney land or where ever you and others are going. I have played in these places thousands of times and I will tell you they are not obe. Even the term oobe is another egg in the wrong basket these are all astral projections within the souls mind not within the veil. Again if your obe is not of the real world around you then this is in the souls mind and more of a LD experience.

Powessy

As for my source they are not alive to tell you this, but they are seen by many I can give hundreds of these accounts.