Thread: OBE from the hypnagogic sensations stage!!

Hello VinceField

You can call your experiences what ever you want It makes no difference to me but it is wrong. When I leave my body I have to return to my body not a replica in another realm but in this realm. Astral and mental projections are only that projections within the mind. When you enter into your souls mind you are not in the veil in this world you are simply in your own mind experiencing, I have done this so many times it is not even funny. What you are describing in your experiences is like me closing my eyes and imagining things that I then believe are real.

Powessy

hello
You know... How can you be so sure that you are really traveling out of body? Because I feel the same, but I wouldn't go so far and make statement that only I'm doing right thing, and all other people are projecting into their mind which means they are effectively doing lucid dreaming.
You know, when you are describing that demons... I have feeling that you are imagining them Did you travel with detachment mindset? Do you use observer only state? When mind is active and uncontrolled the imagination changes OBE into lucid dreaming easily. The way back is difficult. very difficult. Things are usually not as they seems to be. When you are sure that you know something then you run into strong possibility that they are different.
I see dimension as intermeshing dimensional levels. Physical world is but lowest possible dimension. It has 4 dimension... Astral dimension is five dimensional. It contains not only this physical universe, but also parallel universes. Therefore when you are travelling out of body you may project into astral dimension and be limited to sensing of only this physical dimension. When I project I often see something like diffusion and it is bigger by things that can be easily moved. I theoreticized that I see possible location of that things across of many parallel physical realities. Something like probability blur.

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello VinceField

You can call your experiences what ever you want It makes no difference to me but it is wrong. When I leave my body I have to return to my body not a replica in another realm but in this realm. Astral and mental projections are only that projections within the mind. When you enter into your souls mind you are not in the veil in this world you are simply in your own mind experiencing, I have done this so many times it is not even funny. What you are describing in your experiences is like me closing my eyes and imagining things that I then believe are real.

Powessy

I believe it's important to understand that your statement "You can call your experiences what ever you want...but it is wrong" is an opinion, and the rest of your post is a series of beliefs regarding your experience, rather than these being a collection of indisputable absolute truths. You seem to have locked yourself into a box of concepts that you hold as absolutes, which will only serve to limit your experience and insight. I don't agree with many of your statements based on my own rather extensive experience, but it would be unwise of me to call you wrong. Seems like you could use a dose of this wisdom yourself.

Hello Psionik

I started to experience obes and astral experiences over 33 years ago. I have had over a hundred experiences per year since then, Some years Many more then this. I would say on the lower side 4000 and on the higher side 5000 and definitely in this range. Every time I felt the vibrations I would lift from my body and just hold it there as long as possible. Most of the time I would just float up to the ceiling and just hover there until I moved back down and back within myself. After every experience I would then move into these experiences you and other are talking about the astral plains. Some nights this would happen 5 or 6 times in a row over and over again lasting the whole night. I would have to say I have a pretty good idea I am out of body and not in mind. The experiences are not even the same they are night and day. Next time you feel the vibrations come on, just balance yourself do not fall into the experience let this feeling absorb into you, try to become as conscious as you can. I have done this so many times I just do it on reflex. I will say this a hundred times if there is anything different at all from this reality you live in then you are not out of body but in mind.

Every soul has two parts the part experiencing and then the part that contains your higher mind. I call this the mind and then the minds mind. The higher mind is contained in a treemend that is similar to a hair but is living but unnoticed by us. When I say you are going into your mind to experience I mean you are going into your treemend and becoming yourself there to experience your memories of past lives.

I don't agree with your whole thoughts about dimensions as I am being shown something different. The way I have come to understand this is dimensions are universes within universes each universe is within the next like a Russian nesting doll. I have spent so many hours within my mind in astral experiences moving from place to place that I just become anyone in them. I do not suffer size issues or even night mares I just become these things. Our world is the real world in time, all astral experiences are out of time or not in time. The veil is in time and real as this world but somehow out of phase.

As for the demons I am far from imagining them. I can give you a thousand accounts of shadow people, angels and demons, succubus and incubus stories if you want me to. I can talk to them and I have experienced many of them here with me. I get to enter into their minds and see their thoughts and questions. 99% of everyone here and around the internet having these type experiences have at one time or another experienced them pulling at them out or can hear or feel them in the room. I pull them into me and into my mind as we become something together. I have had them do this hundreds of times so I think I am pretty sure of what is happening.

Did you travel with detachment mind set? I just exit and then enter into the experience, in obe I am in my house no travel occurs other then here, in the astral I have seen and done everything you can imagine. When a demon enters into my mind I am in bed but watch the experience closely. Normally their is a trigger that makes me 100 percent aware. I will then notice sleep paralysis and then them moving on me, head into mine. I know they talk in imaginations so I will remain in sleep paralysis and talk to them in images sometimes for an hour or more, I am fully awake when this is happening.

Do you use observer only state? Are you serious? I can take on any part or become anyone in my experiences. I will shift form one thing to another or become anything I want to in any observational state I deem best suited for the experience. The astral is candy land for the mind I normally look for the story and then move around it trying to understand it.

Powessy

Originally Posted by VinceField

I believe it's important to understand that your statement "You can call your experiences what ever you want...but it is wrong" is an opinion, and the rest of your post is a series of beliefs regarding your experience, rather than these being a collection of indisputable absolute truths. You seem to have locked yourself into a box of concepts that you hold as absolutes, which will only serve to limit your experience and insight. I don't agree with many of your statements based on my own rather extensive experience, but it would be unwise of me to call you wrong. Seems like you could use a dose of this wisdom yourself.

Hello VinceField

I started out trying to explain something to you and others from years of experience and from thousands of obes and astral projections, with no intention of being rude or condescending. I have experienced every type of astral projection that you can imagine and more this is a fact. When I listen to all these accounts of astral travels, Lds and wilds I can relate to everyone of them and understand them for I have been there and done that. I have been to many worlds and seen may things that are not of earth, I have played in oceans as a fish or swam in lakes and rivers. I have torn down entire worlds with only a thought and watched as nothing remained. I have become many things moving from one person to the other within these realities. I do know how hard it is to be sure about dimensions and all the plains talk as these are only platforms within the souls mind. The one thing that I do not understand is no one is talking about the beginning part of the experience that I have experienced for over thirty years. I don't hear about obes other then in near death accounts, and not all of them, only the ones where they could see there body. I have read thousands of entries on astral projections and obes but do not find what I have experienced in any of these accounts, so I will keep my opinions and absolutes regarding these experiences. What I do see is the feelings of moving out of body and then the sudden flying into the wild blue yonder and then doing this and doing that. Tell me how many times have you returned to your own body after an experience in the astral? Do you just awaken and you find you are in bed or do you fly back to your home and enter into yourself. An astral in the first few minuets feels the same as an obe but this is the tricky part you just fall into the experience and into your own souls mind. Try not to fall into yourself stay alert and aware of the experience and try to move from there.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

What experiential evidence do you have that these astral projections and WILDS are cases of "falling into your soul's mind?"

What is your opinion regarding the validity of the dimensions and experiences of these "soul's mind" projections compared to what you classify as OBEs?

Powessy: This discussion has not any meaning. It is like trying to argument with believer who believes that earth is flat or even cavity. I tried that and I failed to talk and reason them out of their false belief. OBE is even more difficult to argument... You believe that you are right very strongly. You have your large set of experiences. Nothing bad in that. My belief is not rigid as yours is. With rigidity comes fragileness. I have my set of experiences and proofs. My set tells me that you are somewhat wrong in your opinions. Again nothing bad in that. But if you want to make point, you need to provide some proofs.

Originally Posted by Psionik

Powessy: This discussion has not any meaning. It is like trying to argument with believer who believes that earth is flat or even cavity. I tried that and I failed to talk and reason them out of their false belief. OBE is even more difficult to argument... You believe that you are right very strongly. You have your large set of experiences. Nothing bad in that. My belief is not rigid as yours is. With rigidity comes fragileness. I have my set of experiences and proofs. My set tells me that you are somewhat wrong in your opinions. Again nothing bad in that. But if you want to make point, you need to provide some proofs.

Hello Psionik

Your flat earth point is also how I feel when trying to explain this to you, good analogy. I should have asked you first , have you ever experienced sleep paralysis? Have you ever experienced the vibrational state of exit, when your body vibrates so hard you exit? You say you have never felt anything around you or touching you during your experiences, and you have had thousands of obes then I am curious of why they leave you alone.

Here is the only proof I can give you, next time you feel the exit feelings you need to become fully aware of the separation. The soul is divided into two parts the part of you that is Psionik and then the real you that has become something many times, which resides inside of a astral matrix of sorts the treemend. Now when you feel the exit feelings coming on you need to hold it there. If you fall into sleep you will enter into yourself and become your higher self and experience things there. What you want to do is remain Psionik your soul experiencing and leave your body here. This is not simple and requires a lot of control to move out of your body. It took me hundreds of times just hovering above my body before I could start to move away from it. It's like a muscle that needs to be used over and over again.

You want to know why my beliefs are so rigid. I have others helping me to understand myself and showing me many things, in just the last year I have had more then a 150 experiences of many kinds some new and some not so new but with an explanation each time. I can astral project now without even falling fully asleep just by closing my eyes and entering other realities fully aware. The feeling of obe and astral projection are night and day in difference I just do not now of any other method to prove this then to have you experiment with this.

Powessy

Originally Posted by VinceField

What experiential evidence do you have that these astral projections and WILDS are cases of "falling into your soul's mind?"

hello VinceField

I have had thousands of experiences that have shown me that this is true as the difference between these experiences are night and day. The thing for me that really sets this apart is the feeling I get from the experience. When I am in a wild or LD I have all the exit feelings and movement feelings I can fly gracefully or run and jump unhindered but it is not real to me. I have had some of the funnest and coolest astral experiences you could imagine, but I would give them all up for just one obe this is how powerful of a feeling they have for me.

Originally Posted by VinceField

What is your opinion regarding the validity of the dimensions and experiences of these "soul's mind" projections compared to what you classify as OBEs?

This is the hardest thing to answer for me as it would take a whole lot of explaining, I will give you the short version. I hear voices 24/7, I know where astral parasites are coming form and what they are. I call the main carriers of them, the twelve. These twelve entities carry entire worlds on their heads in treemends. The twelve are a combination of world soul objects and angels together. A year and a half ago I started to become myself here on earth to find myself. A soul that is experiencing the part that is VinceField can become there true self in life if they know how. You have to become yourself inside of yourself many times to become yourself only. Here is the tricky part many souls have many things inside of them that keeps this from happening. When you and others enter into your souls mind you will seek triggers to bring your mind forward in the experience to become more lucid. The reason for this none lucid state is you have become something inside of yourself but not yourself you entered into someone else within your souls mind. When we become lucid we will still feel lingering thoughts of those we just were, and then we take control of the projection. I like to just go with the experience and let it flow to see if there is a message and then do other things. For many years my experiences were of only me in them and nothing else just empty worlds. This is how I see the difference from those experiences and the ones I have today with thousands of people in them. Now every once and awhile one of the twelve ends up on me and within them I find entire worlds and civilizations growing within them. MY evidence is the things being shown to me and the many experiences I have within them. Now here is the strange thing. I can feel five minds within each of the twelve within my mind. The twelve were world soul objects like gaia but changed into something else. When in conversation with them I can move into each of these spheres in their mind and see things they have within them. They talk of source and time and how they are like him in this way. I see how these dimensions within them work and how each thing is connected to them as the dimensions go from small to very large in size, I sometimes think of dr. whos telephone booth or the Russian nesting dolls when observing this in them.

I also have the sparteil that enter into me and talk to me as they are doing this in astral projections form the veil. They are on the outside of me and enter into my mind to pull my mind into theirs. I have done this many many times as they just enter into me. I can feel them on me and touching me and I can feel their minds in mine in bed in this reality here awake and aware. I find myself in the astral and running around then realize I am in sleep paralysis causing me to become fully aware, I remain in paralysis and become fully awake feeling them still in my mind asking questions. You see they are in the veil and the sparteil triggered the astral experience in my mind pulling me into theirs. This is how I see the difference or have come to my beliefs regarding these experiences.


Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello Psionik

Your flat earth point is also how I feel when trying to explain this to you, good analogy. I should have asked you first , have you ever experienced sleep paralysis? Have you ever experienced the vibrational state of exit, when your body vibrates so hard you exit? You say you have never felt anything around you or touching you during your experiences, and you have had thousands of obes then I am curious of why they leave you alone.

Here is the only proof I can give you, next time you feel the exit feelings you need to become fully aware of the separation. The soul is divided into two parts the part of you that is Psionik and then the real you that has become something many times, which resides inside of a astral matrix of sorts the treemend. Now when you feel the exit feelings coming on you need to hold it there. If you fall into sleep you will enter into yourself and become your higher self and experience things there. What you want to do is remain Psionik your soul experiencing and leave your body here. This is not simple and requires a lot of control to move out of your body. It took me hundreds of times just hovering above my body before I could start to move away from it. It's like a muscle that needs to be used over and over again.

You want to know why my beliefs are so rigid. I have others helping me to understand myself and showing me many things, in just the last year I have had more then a 150 experiences of many kinds some new and some not so new but with an explanation each time. I can astral project now without even falling fully asleep just by closing my eyes and entering other realities fully aware. The feeling of obe and astral projection are night and day in difference I just do not now of any other method to prove this then to have you experiment with this.

Powessy

Hello

When I'm going out of body, I must prepare it for separation first. I must also prepare my mind for it. Therefore I do autosuggestive relaxation targeted on sensory input from body. It gives me kind of feedback. I concentrate on the weight of hand and as the time goes of the whole body. I feel the weight, heaviness... and I make it stronger and stronger with help of feedback. I concentrate on it and only on it. This relax the striated muscles. Then, to relax smooth muscles I concentrate on the warmth. Again with the same procedure- first warmth of hand, then I let the heat flow up and into other hand, from hand down to feets and from hand and feets into centre of my body. I keep concentrated on the feeling and I'm making it stronger. The feeling of sleep paralysis comes slowly from this. I can make separation faster way, or slower way after that.
Slower way is done by continuing with relaxation till I start to feel second body spontaneously and then I separate simply by flying out. However I run into possibility of falling into meditation and then no separation is possible, because I lose will to move out of body.
Faster way is by forcing it. For forcing the separation I send impulses to dominant hand to make rolling movements from side to side, but at the same time I keep body relaxed unmoving. It is not that hard when sleep paralysis takes the effect. In some time I start to feel the hand begins to move, but at the same time I feel my unmoving physical body. I make movements of that moving immaterial hand stronger and I separate it from body. Then I use separated hand to move the whole immaterial body out.
It is only useless naming if I name it astral body, spiritual body or as something else. Once I'm out of body I'm usually in blackness. I use my aura to lighten my surroundings, but many times it is not necessary. There is always light around, man must learn to see it. Everything shines even if weakly. Vibrations are not compulsory. Sometimes I feel them. The difference between feeling them and not is zero. I think of them more like about distraction.
There is also possibility to separate into black void(less often I separate into white void- the feeling of peace is the same) This void is different to the void of meditation. I concentrate on stabilization of consciousness to keep contact with my surrounding. After some time I get usually exit from it- some surrounding can materialize out of it.

First thing every explorer must keep in mind is critical thinking and skepticism- even if I have experiences, they don't need to be of objective nature.. Second thing is unattached observing and collecting the information.
I didn't feel anything touching me during my experiences? I think you misunderstand, english is not my language, I'm from Slovakia. I feel going out of body, I feel my surroundings, I can touch things if I choose to, I can go through the things if I choose to. I can and I do often spread my consciousness into larger area to perceive it simultaneously. It is something like I make larger area to be part of my consciousness. It makes exploration much faster if I'm aware of everything in taken area... I could be for example 10m, 50m, 100m in diameter. I concentrate and I get something like compass which shows me area of interests. Then I feel where to go to find something interesting. That way I found and destroyed the den of energetic wampires about kilometer from my home. Or I found and I'm working on neutralisation of dark energy field located a few kilometers from my home. Or I got to some people to make them safe from harm of energy sucking dark clouds. My problem is time paradoxically. When I'm on my ways exploring, I have often problem to travel faster. I found transportation portals as unreliable, they are leading into crazy LDs(huge drop of strength of consciousness, imaginations spikes... from which I can't go back into "astral or higher reality". From time to time I try to use them experimenting with stabilization. Then there is flying and fast running which are better than walking usually. Therefore I work on lengthening the time of staying in the astral. That way even by slower progress I can reach further away from my body.
I was in darker parts of astral world. Hell if you like. It is not hell if you are in balance, relaxed, in observer state. You shroud yourself into peace and unconditional love and that makes you surrounded by area(aura) of different reality which helps greatly. I hope that hell wasn't premonition, as I was going there because I didn't want to leave one of my close friend alone. I wanted to help her. It looked like I was waiting in front of the gates of death (long corridor full of doors) for her and then I was her guide. To go whenever she vent to... and she went to hell because her mind was feeling like it. I was also in heaven... and beyond it. The place beyond heaven looked like mental dimension. It would be logical if I think of it this way: low astral - hell, middle reaches- looking more or less as this world, high reaches heaven like. Mental dimension beyond of astral one.
I met some beings on my travels through astral. It is not that they can't touch me, but they fear me. They ran away as I come closer to them. Even if I want only to communicate. They are feeling pain to be close to me, the stronger the more in balance and peace I'm in. I extend it to them with gesture of friendliness and they run. After all I only ever did harm to some being if it was to save innocents. Most often I met nobody conscious when I travel. Only sleeping people... some somnambulic like.

Thanks for your suggestion. I have a little different definitions of two parts- there is conscious part of soul and subconscious part of it. The larger part of subconscious mind you are able to feel and communicate with the more controlled experience is and the less imagination makes way into experience. But for stability sake I prefer to merge conscious and subconscious part of myself into one. That way the experience last longer and is less prone to be modified by unwanted imagination. What you name astral matrix is more likely LD. Astral is much different. In my view astral is world composed of things(doubles) from great many physical worlds intermixed with leftovers of imaginations from subconsciousness. There is also possibility that thoughts of beings are intermixed into this. For example someone thinks about something. That something is materializing in the astral sooner than it exist in physical world. People traveling outside of their body can find it there sooner than it exist in physical world. I work hard for years to integrate subconscious part of consciousness into conscious part. This creates something I name as superconsciousness. The stronger my superconsciousness is the weaker other beings are in comparison to me. Again, this is result of years of experimentation and observation.

It took me more than 4 years to make separation consciously and in controlled way from my accidental separation when I trained relaxation... I name dimension according to information what I found on internet more than 10 years after I started to travel. I can tell, the eastern block was kind of information vacuum for good or bad. Good because such nonsensical things like various conspiracy theories are presenting weren't present here. Bad, because also things about lucid dreaming, OBE and others were suppressed. So I worked alone on that. When I found and read later about Physical, Astral, Mental, Buddhic, Atmic, Anupadaka and Adi dimensions on internet and compared it with my experiences I was able to name the places I separate into. Physical is obvious. I found main part of experiences to be consistent with astral projection, small percento with mental and one or two experiences with budhic projection. They can be differentiated by the state of consciousness. Trained traveler can feel the difference.

Rigid belief leads to zealotism, to fanaticism. Bad thing if you are trying to grow from your experiences. Bad thing for anyone who want to progress to higher level of perfection. Outside forces can lead you to wrong way easily if they abuse your credulity combined with lack of experience. When I run into mistake I do it alone. And I alone am working to find my way. It is easy. You feel the way your consciousness feels and make adjustments. And you do it again and again. There were no others- ever, available to help. But there were some trying to steer my way in wrong way. Way I never wanted to go down since it leads away from peace and unity.

Hello Psionik

I posted this method I use in another thread but will share my technique also with you. My exit is the same every time i do not have to roll or do any other thing then these steps posted below.

I start out by just realizing my intent to get out of body prior to laying down. When I lay down I lay flat on my back. I always sleep with a sheet or blanket over me. I place my feet together and raise them up and pull the blanket loosely under my my legs so my feet stay together and perpendicular to the bed this is important. I take my hands and interweave them but loosely placing them somewhere between my navel and chest, palms down relaxed. I make sure my elbows are pointed outward as far as possible releasing any kind of pressure on my hands and fingers.

There are seven points of observation that you must understand. The first is the feet relax them and then move upward, second and third slow your breathing and your heart rate, forth relax your whole body on exhale slowing your breathing. Five do not close your eyes for nothing you will fall asleep. six is the place at the back of the neck and where it meets the shoulders relax here and then the head feeling the weight of your head in the pillow. By this point you should not feel your feet very well anymore and your hands should almost feel connected and inseparable. The last point is the pelvis relax and then move back through.

Start at the feet again and move upwards again, important do not close your eyes, roll them in the back of your head if you have to.

The eyes are only a distraction to allow your mind to stop concentrating on the method. Soon your mind will just stop and you will fall into phase and then out this will happen several times and then you will either exit or you will sleep better then you ever have. Mind awake body asleep

When I separate I am fully aware, I look at the surroundings and first determine if I am in mind or out of body if I am in mind I will pull back but his rarely happens any more. When I exit i am in my surroundings in my home and around familiar things. The second thing I look for is anything and I mean anything that is not in place even a clock turned or a chair out of place this tells me I am in mind and not in the veil. I have done this so many times that I just know the feeling of this and where I am, know after many thousands of observations. When I exit into the veil I will move around and down the hall or downstairs but then after a short time I just start to return like being pulled back. When I return to body and I always return to myself I am normally in sleep paralysis. I enter into my body and then try to get out again and again several times but if I can't I just relax back into the paralysis and enter into mind. These two experiences are not the same for me but almost always back to back like 95% of the time. In the mind experiences for me, I can move through anything or become anything I want, I can change the parameters of the dream if needed to extend it. Within mind we unconsciously create thought forms like a wall you can not move through or a solid feeling like touch these are created in our minds through memories. I can thought form feelings on my won body just by imagining any object dead or alive this confirms this for me in the mind experiences for me.

In mind travel is fast and seamless for me when you can observe something you just place yourself there next to an item or thing. You have created boundaries like neo in the matrix as he was trying to understand the physics of it. Most of my movement is in leaps and bounds moving across entire maps or worlds. You can get a map image of the place you are at and just move from one point to another like sticking a peg in the map. This only works for me in mind for for out of mind I am limited to flying only.

During all my experiences I have never confronted anything that I can not become other then the shadows those in the veil. I have had only one experience that has bothered me in all these years that I still ask questions about. I have been pulled from my body more times then I can count and have seen and felt things that would stop people in there tracks but yet I have never been afraid or harmed in any way. I find that when I am either in obe or in mind I am not quite the same person, I have a calming to me and a feeling of intrigue and curiosity that is so over whelming. I don't need thoughts of love, power the light or anything else in my experiences for nothing ever bothers me I just experience and that is all. I am most of all an observer, plying adn learning new things. I haev destroyed entire levels in only a thought. I have seen whole worlds shredded with all the contents moving along the surface totally destroying everything.

I have always been aware and conscious of my separations from the age 13 and up, Prior to that time my memories are jumbled and tossed together. I came on line a year ago to ask questions about something that was bothering me. For the last few years my experienced decreased by ten fold. Every time I tried to get out of body there was a grid over me like a mesh blanket that I could see but green. If I tore through one layer there was always another in its place. almost two years ago I picked up a pendulum to ask questions abut the grid and this all started to happen the things I see now and talk to. During the conversations with them they removed the grid and my experiences have resumed. A group of light souls now use a white mesh to cover me up with preventing me from getting out and others from getting in. The mesh keeps me from getting into the veil but I can still have in mind experiences. If the mesh is not present I can get out and move around to stretch my soul a little.
My experiences and obes are monitored this also helps me understand the things they are trying to show me.

When I came online to ask questions everyone i found talking on this topic were experiencing in mind experiences but not obes this confused me and made it hard for me to make connections to what others were talking about. I have tried for the last two years to fit your words and my words together causing much misunderstanding. I get all the astral plains and astral lingo but nothing else makes sense to me when it comes to obes.

As for my beliefs I am not alone in these for my experiences are being shown to me they are teaching me about them. I get to see how this is done in the mind and how it created through, thought forms and memories held within us. I have been alone in this for over thirty years learning and experiencing, I would go months and months having obes and astral experiences day after day teaching my self restraint and understanding.

Thank you and good luck, I will however allow them to teach me for they are at the level that I am at now. Everything they are teaching me is within the things I have found to be true over these many years of experiences.

Powessy

@powessy
what about your spirit guide or angel whatever ppl call it, u dont have or need it? and i agree that u experienced the shadows/demons and might got into their mind somehow to see/feel read their minds etc im sure in some way its possible but what's next for u? if u experienced that much likely every single day what keeps u experiencing more or let me ask you; what is more to discover?

ps: some serious question to you since i have similar beliefs to your understanding of OBE, i haven't experienced it yet but i am practicing slowly but lets say i seperated my body from my physical body, the room i am looks absolutely same as in reality, is it reality? or is it a copy of ur physical reality? also did you tried to move stuff around or write something and i dont know do something in exchange when u wake up to see a change?

thanks to all of you i've had a good time reading this =D

Originally Posted by Karlitaki

@powessy
what about your spirit guide or angel whatever ppl call it, u dont have or need it? and i agree that u experienced the shadows/demons and might got into their mind somehow to see/feel read their minds etc im sure in some way its possible but what's next for u? if u experienced that much likely every single day what keeps u experiencing more or let me ask you; what is more to discover?

ps: some serious question to you since i have similar beliefs to your understanding of OBE, i haven't experienced it yet but i am practicing slowly but lets say i seperated my body from my physical body, the room i am looks absolutely same as in reality, is it reality? or is it a copy of ur physical reality? also did you tried to move stuff around or write something and i dont know do something in exchange when u wake up to see a change?

thanks to all of you i've had a good time reading this =D

Hello Karlitaki

Prior to all this happening 2 years ago every time I would get prepared to obe or astral project notice a green mesh in front of my eyes. I started to ask questions about it and that is when I was introduced to my guide. My guide went only by the name Roy and was only with me for around a month. When I was young I could always make out a figure just to the left of me and below me just waiting there never moving. This thing was 5 times the size of a person and had veins of blue and yellow. In my first questions of roy on the pendulum I asked him who and what he was? Roy spelt out this line mindweangelsoymehe by separating the words I got. In the minds of people you see us as angels I am a he or boy. I asked roy about the person that has stood below me all these years and he told me it was my soul and my real name is powessy. I asked roy about the mesh he said he will remove it and he did. That day during nap i left my body in obe and journeyed down the hall in my normal pattern but this time I entered in to my sons room. As I came to a stop another person emerged fro within me one of light and resembling the assassin in assassins creed. As I awoke I went down and sat on the couch and closed my eyes for a moment and then opened them a cat woman was moving across the room and looking directly in my eyes. Later on that night I told powessy to enter into me and he reached up from this place and moved into me this took about an hour. Roy never spoke to me after that. I was told I separated my self prior to birth to keep anything from knowing I was here which now through the experiences i have aligns with this story. My voices are confused when they get here asking how I became myself here in this world without himself and myself together. Nothing can become something in this world without becoming itself many times to be reborn many times through evolution. If you did reincarnate here then you carry something with you that they can find that tells them how many times and weather you are an allowed soul or not.

What is next. I will keep pulling them into me until they are all gone from the veil. I am now learning about the five dimensions and how the gates between these dimensions are used and have been used. I can only become more of myself every once in a while to become something like my true self. I don't think I have even scratched the surface to what is beyond our own dimension let alone the truth about all the things I have seen. In the beginning of this time I was given an astral projection where I was sitting in a room in front of a series of puzzles and was told to try to do them. As I started to pick up pieces the lights went out and I started to fumble the pieces in my hands as I could feel them changing, I held tight to the few pieces I had and then the lights came on. I looked in my hand and the pieces I thought I had were not the pieces I had before the lights went out. What I took from this is that, the pieces are constantly changing and that I will have to wait till the light has been turned on and I have seen the pieces before trying to put them together.

When you are in the veil you are out of phase with things, As far as I have noticed and experienced you can not move an item or change anything from the veil side. As the vibrations begin stay alert and remain in the vibrations as long as possible do not fall into phase or you will just enter into your own mind. I took me so many times to learn this and to move form this to get to the point I could fly through the house. If you try to go through a wall you will just get pulled back without even knowing it and enter into your mind. I just move as fast as possible to get as far as possible until I am pulled back. Once I return to my body I can then enter into my mind and experience the astral realms. The veil is the veil, is it reality I do not know for sure but it is not here. My consciousness is with me in flight and when I am being pulled back to my body. I can hear thoughts of others dreams when out this I have verified many times with my wife.

The one thing that is crystal clear to me is that the astral and obes are not in the same category for me.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello Karlitaki

Prior to all this happening 2 years ago every time I would get prepared to obe or astral project notice a green mesh in front of my eyes. I started to ask questions about it and that is when I was introduced to my guide. My guide went only by the name Roy and was only with me for around a month. When I was young I could always make out a figure just to the left of me and below me just waiting there never moving. This thing was 5 times the size of a person and had veins of blue and yellow. In my first questions of roy on the pendulum I asked him who and what he was? Roy spelt out this line mindweangelsoymehe by separating the words I got. In the minds of people you see us as angels I am a he or boy. I asked roy about the person that has stood below me all these years and he told me it was my soul and my real name is powessy. I asked roy about the mesh he said he will remove it and he did. That day during nap i left my body in obe and journeyed down the hall in my normal pattern but this time I entered in to my sons room. As I came to a stop another person emerged fro within me one of light and resembling the assassin in assassins creed. As I awoke I went down and sat on the couch and closed my eyes for a moment and then opened them a cat woman was moving across the room and looking directly in my eyes. Later on that night I told powessy to enter into me and he reached up from this place and moved into me this took about an hour. Roy never spoke to me after that. I was told I separated my self prior to birth to keep anything from knowing I was here which now through the experiences i have aligns with this story. My voices are confused when they get here asking how I became myself here in this world without himself and myself together. Nothing can become something in this world without becoming itself many times to be reborn many times through evolution. If you did reincarnate here then you carry something with you that they can find that tells them how many times and weather you are an allowed soul or not.

What is next. I will keep pulling them into me until they are all gone from the veil. I am now learning about the five dimensions and how the gates between these dimensions are used and have been used. I can only become more of myself every once in a while to become something like my true self. I don't think I have even scratched the surface to what is beyond our own dimension let alone the truth about all the things I have seen. In the beginning of this time I was given an astral projection where I was sitting in a room in front of a series of puzzles and was told to try to do them. As I started to pick up pieces the lights went out and I started to fumble the pieces in my hands as I could feel them changing, I held tight to the few pieces I had and then the lights came on. I looked in my hand and the pieces I thought I had were not the pieces I had before the lights went out. What I took from this is that, the pieces are constantly changing and that I will have to wait till the light has been turned on and I have seen the pieces before trying to put them together.

When you are in the veil you are out of phase with things, As far as I have noticed and experienced you can not move an item or change anything from the veil side. As the vibrations begin stay alert and remain in the vibrations as long as possible do not fall into phase or you will just enter into your own mind. I took me so many times to learn this and to move form this to get to the point I could fly through the house. If you try to go through a wall you will just get pulled back without even knowing it and enter into your mind. I just move as fast as possible to get as far as possible until I am pulled back. Once I return to my body I can then enter into my mind and experience the astral realms. The veil is the veil, is it reality I do not know for sure but it is not here. My consciousness is with me in flight and when I am being pulled back to my body. I can hear thoughts of others dreams when out this I have verified many times with my wife.

The one thing that is crystal clear to me is that the astral and obes are not in the same category for me.

Powessy

Thanks for your answer.
As for your last paragraph u stated ''Once I return to my body I can then enter into my mind and experience the astral realms.''
Does that mean your not OBE on that moment? like u get back to ur body and ur like lucid dreaming? or is it astral as u call it? and to be honest why we call it astral? i mean that confuses people..
i thought first Astral Projection = 1 thing u get out of ur body and explore etc and get back with awareness that ur in a OBE dimension, so what is astral plane and those different stuff? cus if u get out of ur body and u see everything real in that veil as u explained lets make an example you are just like a ghost in reality right? just like real 'ghosts/spirits demons etcc'' if u believe in them cus they can't touch u or harm u, does that make sense? and whats ur opinion about it? cus obviously that would mean, ghosts/demons and everything else are dead spirits or something (asleep spirits) in a sense unseen souls and thats what u become in OBE ? or not.
i wanna get that clear i know its not easy to explain and im trying my best ot experience it so we will see thoughout.

Originally Posted by Karlitaki

Thanks for your answer.
As for your last paragraph u stated ''Once I return to my body I can then enter into my mind and experience the astral realms.''
Does that mean your not OBE on that moment? like u get back to ur body and ur like lucid dreaming? or is it astral as u call it? and to be honest why we call it astral? i mean that confuses people..
i thought first Astral Projection = 1 thing u get out of ur body and explore etc and get back with awareness that ur in a OBE dimension, so what is astral plane and those different stuff? cus if u get out of ur body and u see everything real in that veil as u explained lets make an example you are just like a ghost in reality right? just like real 'ghosts/spirits demons etcc'' if u believe in them cus they can't touch u or harm u, does that make sense? and whats ur opinion about it? cus obviously that would mean, ghosts/demons and everything else are dead spirits or something (asleep spirits) in a sense unseen souls and thats what u become in OBE ? or not.
i wanna get that clear i know its not easy to explain and im trying my best ot experience it so we will see thoughout.

Karlitaki

Keep in mind that quite a few of the ideas presented by powessy are not shared by any other out of body/astral explorer or adept that I have read or talked to in close to ten years of research. This does not mean he is wrong, but it does mean that his words should be taken with a grain of salt, as there is little to no consensus to support them. Many of my own experiences directly contradict some of the theories he has presented. These experiences can be very subjective, and it is rather easy to assign labels and attempt to describe phenomenon that do the actual reality of the matter little justice. The best way to find the answers you are looking for is to find them through first hand experience.

Originally Posted by Karlitaki

Thanks for your answer.
As for your last paragraph u stated ''Once I return to my body I can then enter into my mind and experience the astral realms.''
Does that mean your not OBE on that moment? like u get back to ur body and ur like lucid dreaming? or is it astral as u call it? and to be honest why we call it astral? i mean that confuses people..
i thought first Astral Projection = 1 thing u get out of ur body and explore etc and get back with awareness that ur in a OBE dimension, so what is astral plane and those different stuff? cus if u get out of ur body and u see everything real in that veil as u explained lets make an example you are just like a ghost in reality right? just like real 'ghosts/spirits demons etcc'' if u believe in them cus they can't touch u or harm u, does that make sense? and whats ur opinion about it? cus obviously that would mean, ghosts/demons and everything else are dead spirits or something (asleep spirits) in a sense unseen souls and thats what u become in OBE ? or not.
i wanna get that clear i know its not easy to explain and im trying my best ot experience it so we will see thoughout.

Hello Karlitaki

Just a little over a year ago I started to see spelt words in my higher mind. These words lasted about a week and on the last night something happened to me to confirm my experiences. On that night those on the outside of me came to me in my room and began to ask the shadows questions those that were trapped within me. I went down stairs and laid on the couch so not to wake my wife and listened to the conversations going back and forth between them. They started to remove things within them, tow in the leg one in the right arm and something in their stomachs this happened many times as they were Rolodexed within me. They started to talk about control points an where they were, and what they did to cause sleep paralysis and how they could pull the soul from a body. There were five shadows within me that night each holding hundreds of treemends and each treemend can hold thousands of souls. They started moving something on my crown in the middle of it and my breathing stopped, I was fully awake this was not an obe or dream of any kind. they then stopped my heart completely I could no longer feel it beating in my chest and I had not taken a breath in over a few minutes. I felt my legs start to be pulled down into the couch and then the rest of me up to my head, my soul body was at almost at forty five degree angle of myself. They got the information they wanted from the shadows and then placed me back in my body which I still do not believe happened.
The feeling of this to me is the same as the obes I have so it might be possible this is what happens when I get out of body since I am not in both places at the same time it is hard to tell.

Your soul is divided into two parts the part of the soul that is Karlitaki and then the higher mind the true you, my higher minds name is powessy. In life the higher mind is in a state of lights off and will remain this way until you begin astral projecting. When we astral project we enter into our higher mind which is located in a treemend the container that holds your higher mind, this experience is in mind or treemend as yourself. The treemend is the holo deck on star trek. Imagine going to sleep and then waking up in the holo deck this is an astral projection. In life we can start to enter into our higher mind and become ourselves inside of it. the more times you enter into yourself there the more you will find answers to things in life here and become your true self. People believe that the up lifting of their body means they left it completely but this is not so. The soul slightly lifts up and away from the body and then this allows the soul experiencing to enter into itself. We have to disconnect when we astral project form the body to enter into ourselves or our higher mind. The astral planes exist within treemends and it is that easy. Most of the people here would not know if they were within their own treemend or within the mind of a shadow. The shadows have a higher mind inside of their mind like a little person inside of a bigger person. Your higher mind is within a treemend that exists on your head like a fine hair you would never feel. when a shadow enters into us they will trigger the experience causing you to enter into your higher mind and then they will pull you into theirs. The shadows carry with them thousands of souls to place within your experiences and find information about you with. they can simultaneously find a hundred minds and project these thoughts into their minds to create huge astral plains within their holo deck. Sleep paralysis is also a tale tale sign the shadows are involved but this is not always so but probably 95 percent of the time.

When i get out of body in the veil in an obe I am as you say a ghost. My body is pixelated and I can change my shape in this form. They can touch me and they do touch me and have also touched many others. I have been drug through the veil and a couple different occasions but only briefly. When you are in the veil you are of the same frequency as the other things that lurk there. The only thing in the veil are the shadows or the sparteil nothing else will remain there for long as they will pick them up. When you obe or astral project this separation is like a bomb going off to the shadows they will sometimes even be waiting for you to sleep knowing you are going to exit or they are going to initialize it.

Karlitaki your main question that seems to be resounding through this form of questioning is, do I have a soul or is all this just a hallucination made in the mind. You have a soul. The shadows live in the veil and they are as real as you are. the shadows are born to the veil they are solid but have so many souls outside of themselves that all you see is the shadow of them. I have touched and talked to many shadows and have seen through the layers of souls that they have all outside of themselves.

In response to vincefields post

Karlitaki you are in control of your own experiences to believe what you want. there are those that just can not get past the idea that they are only experiencing in their heads they will go to great lengths to try to push their incorrect views on to others. I have had more obes and astral projections this year alone then some of these people have had in their entire life times and in addition to that I am getting help from the shadows to understand this. Vince how many people in the last ten years have gotten to understand and talk to the shadows on this level.

Good luck

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

In response to vincefields post

Karlitaki you are in control of your own experiences to believe what you want. there are those that just can not get past the idea that they are only experiencing in their heads they will go to great lengths to try to push their incorrect views on to others. I have had more obes and astral projections this year alone then some of these people have had in their entire life times and in addition to that I am getting help from the shadows to understand this. Vince how many people in the last ten years have gotten to understand and talk to the shadows on this level.

Good luck

Powessy

I think it's important to understand that not one word of advice that I provided in my last post was anything other than fact. I did not go into subjective experiences, beliefs, theories, or conclusions, nor did I attempt to state my beliefs as fact, as doing so can be very misleading, which is why I issued the warning to Karlitaki regarding taking your advice. More times than not, those claiming to have things totally figured and stating beliefs as absolute truths are simply spreading their own delusions.

its okay guys thanks for sharing your opinions/advices, i'll just experiment and see the results

Originally Posted by powessy

hello Psionik

I have always just experienced and have never shared my experiences with anyone, people just look at me funny when I explain them. I like obe in my understanding of it because it is the removal of all things it is freedom and something i desire to feel all the time. I don't wish to leave this reality only to see all that it has to offer. There are only five dimensions and then veils between each of them like a buffer. I am unsure yet to how this is done but I believe that we live in one mind that holds all these universes or dimensions all together. If you wish to see these other dimensions you will not find it inside of yourself you will need to travel outside of yourself. The LD will hold no answers in the end as the experiences do not show other true realities only those that are of our own making. I travel another road seeking answers being shown to me from the others in the veil. I am complacent in the hopes to one day understand who or what I am in side of myself. I hope you well in your travels and findings as they one day lead you to the truth you seek.

Powessy

How can you be so positive--so entirely sure--that what you think you are experiencing is truly the way things are? The mind is very convincing of what it wants to believe. Delusions can and often are touted as truth just because how convincing the mind can make them be. The way I see it, is that the more certain what you believe is true, the more skeptical you should be of this truth's truthfulness. Total certainty in something throws up a red flag for me, especially when it comes to altered states of consciousness and alterations of reality. The fact you believe it so much without question should make you take a step back and wonder if what you are experiencing is truly as you believe it to be.

Not to be a wiseguy but what Snoop just quoted is exactly what my last thread tried to convey as to the secret to OBE. That is Disocciating from Ego.

Originally Posted by snoop

How can you be so positive--so entirely sure--that what you think you are experiencing is truly the way things are? The mind is very convincing of what it wants to believe. Delusions can and often are touted as truth just because how convincing the mind can make them be. The way I see it, is that the more certain what you believe is true, the more skeptical you should be of this truth's truthfulness. Total certainty in something throws up a red flag for me, especially when it comes to altered states of consciousness and alterations of reality. The fact you believe it so much without question should make you take a step back and wonder if what you are experiencing is truly as you believe it to be.

Hello snoop

Why am I so convinced this is done this way is because of the things i have experienced. Her is a typical experience for me that has happen over thirty times this year alone over the last year, this does not include the thousands of times that I did not understand the experience in prior years. first of all 2 years ago I became myself inside of my self, this means nothing to you but it is why I have the experiences I have and feel the things I do.

Sleep paralysis is not always a precursor to the shadows entering into my dreams. The shadow will climb on top of me and then place their head into mine leaning into me. I have had them come up throuhg the bed or enter in at my feet and move up throuhg my body. When they enter into my mind the astral experience starts and the world starts to be created. I will start to see many things going on and whole series of events moving from one scene to another. I allow the astral experience to flow I do not change it in anyway, not that I can't I have destroyed entire levels and worlds with only a thought watching it shrivel up in the middle of it and disappear. As I come back outside of my mind the shadow is still with me and we can talk through imaginations in the mind. I try to answer their questions about things they have. Last night the shadow that I was with me was asking about a disagreement with the company over an advertisement problem that worked within a mouth wash business. I saw that the shadow was confused with this as he displayed the mouth wash container as a upside down bottle with a stray in it like an animal waterier. The waterier had bubbles coming out of it showing me that they were washing their teeth. The shadow does not leave after this they will just move into me and connected at the head and then they come and press on the top of my crown and I can feel the shadow pull up into my shape and all goes quiet. The night before the astral and shadow that came entered me into another world. I was in a hotel walking throuhg it looking for someone and walked into this room. I got the feeling of hurry and then scared and then they sight of a sink with hoses hooked up to them had come off and the room was flooding. I ran through the hotel and came to a room where I found a woman and child sleeping and then the bed fluffed out spreading out in millions of parts the astral fragmented and I was then opening a room where people were listening to something these men all appeared to me to be gay. I had trouble explaining most of this but Water seem to be a problem for them and teeth. They only see dreams and can only find information in things bothering people, things we dream about. The problem with the shadows is they pull the experiencing person into a soul that is within them. These souls are souls that can not become something again so they are erased and rewritten over and over again as they become you people having these experiences. When your experience is over the soul now contains a lot of your memories in it and this soul is not dead it just becomes something in their minds to act out a world never ending.

When they on the outside of me need to explain something to me they bring me into them as myself and this allows the experience to be fully seen and understood with only my feelings in them.

When these experiences end I can close my eyes and see the formation of the higher mind. I see many moving shapes within layers moving within each other and just looking a little harder I can see them moving on the other side of the higher mind as their world is still ongoing. I get to see this, I get to experience this all the time as they show me this. Now this only explains the shadows.

So how do I know you are experiencing in your own mind. Because I can read peoples experiences and they are the same things I do and see all the time they are done in the mind, the astral plains are done in either shadows or they are done in treemends. How do you know what you are experiencing is true? I have read hundreds of dream views in many sites looking for answers to what I am experiencing and have not found the answers yet. I have thousands of treemends moving on my crown that can talk to me on my eyes in pendulum motions. The longer the treemend the more souls it contains and I have some that reach my butt. Each treemend holds a world in it or parts of worlds in them from the many souls they hold. many experiencers talk about people in your projections, ones that talk and say things and some you kill and destroy. When a soul is killed in a dream it just becomes nothing inside of itself to become itself again or as some people call it responing.
How do I understand the treemends. I have entered into the treemends plus this has been shown to me in a astral projection from them, those outside of me. I was in between two buildings and it was raining. I looked down and saw frogs jumping in the puddles forming. I had a sack in my hand and started to reach down and grab the frogs placing them into the sack. As the sack filled I was looking across the way and all of a sudden something bit down on my hand. At the top of the full sack was a fish with very sharp teeth biting down on my hand. This symbolism goes along with the treemends, at the opening of each there is a shadow protecting it. the bag in the astral experience symbolizes the treemend and the fish being the shadow. These are only one of many ways this has been shown to me.

I have my experiences and they align with my voices and they align with the things i am being shown. I look for patterns in things and if they do not match up I do not waste my time trying to understand these thoughts. If something happens to you once this is by chance but when it happens to you a hundred times you start to see the pattern and start to understand them. I see something different and I am experiencing something different, I could be wrong 100 percent but maybe if I can get someone to go to the places I have been, then they too could understand me.

Powessy

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Not to be a wiseguy but what Snoop just quoted is exactly what my last thread tried to convey as to the secret to OBE. That is Disocciating from Ego.

hello Dthoughts

I left my ego at the door many years ago. Why is it when someone tries to explain something to others that they do not understand their butt-ox puckers up and they become offended. This is simple, there are many thousands of experiences written on this forum and many on others I have already spent many hours reading, I have done that many of thousands of times over, these type experiences. Do you think I would come here and proclaim something to this crowd without understanding what it is I am talking about.
Look it is no big deal do as you have been doing you all seem happy playing with these experiences. I was only trying to tell you the world is not flat, that is all.

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

hello Dthoughts

I left my ego at the door many years ago. Why is it when someone tries to explain something to others that they do not understand their butt-ox puckers up and they become offended. This is simple, there are many thousands of experiences written on this forum and many on others I have already spent many hours reading, I have done that many of thousands of times over, these type experiences. Do you think I would come here and proclaim something to this crowd without understanding what it is I am talking about.
Look it is no big deal do as you have been doing you all seem happy playing with these experiences. I was only trying to tell you the world is not flat, that is all.

Powessy

I hope yo didn't get offendd there, that would really make you look stupid

Originally Posted by powessy

I have my experiences and they align with my voices and they align with the things i am being shown. I look for patterns in things and if they do not match up I do not waste my time trying to understand these thoughts. If something happens to you once this is by chance but when it happens to you a hundred times you start to see the pattern and start to understand them. I see something different and I am experiencing something different, I could be wrong 100 percent but maybe if I can get someone to go to the places I have been, then they too could understand me.

Powessy

Ye, I never really got the vibe that Powessy claimed to know things with absolute certainty, he used the words belief a lot in his initial statements! Don't know how Snoop got that from him.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I hope yo didn't get offendd there, that would really make you look stupid

hello Dthoughts

Not offended at all. I keep learning things and keep trying new things with the experiences I am given. I spent my whole life just having fun in the veil and within my astral experiences. For thirty years my experiences were empty of people not one person in any of my astral projections. Now, I have had many experiences with the shadows over these years but never understood them. For three years while in the military many of my experiences included them trying to pull me from my body this happened so many times. In the last two years I have had them here several times a week and now my astral projections are full of people. They are my teachers now. I see how these levels are created and I just thought I would share.

Powessy