Thread: Evolution of shared dreaming

Everything is game. Look at it like a thought experiment. Even if ur theory includes the absence of telepathy. Or if you do not agree with my philosophy. Make ur own story.. I advise playful contemplation!

It's hard to say what the evolutionary purpose for telepathy or shared dreaming might be, since scientists are still working on what the evolutionary purpose of regular dreaming is.
If I were to hazard a guess, telepathy and/or shared dreaming would probably help give us some useful knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have through more direct experience, even if that knowledge is on a subconscious level and has a subtle influence on our behavior.

Good point on dreaming there. Thanks for bringing it up.

And I certainly like your views on telepathy. My response to the question was the same. I think we have solid ground here. I would expand on that notion by saying direct telepathy is less subtle than shared dreams by producing potent opportunity for immediate behavioral changes.

I guess that dreams are more primal than cognitive by appealing more directly to our emotional side. It is only in lucid dreams or upon further analysis that they potentially alter cognitive changes as well.

This is what I don't understand. How come people can accept RV and not other forms of telepathy. Remote viewing is prolly the most tested and studied form of thought projection and it is becoming more accepted on a rapid scale compared to other paranormal phenomena. Why is it so frigging hard to accept that these things are real for some people? It's like the world is flat until someone proved that it was not. This stubborn and narrow-minded point of view is not productive. The science that dictates what is and what is not is not an exact science. Maybe some day some genius will find a mathematical equation to explain RV, SD, telepathy, etc. As for me, I feel I have had experiences with it, (SD) and I am curious as to the "mechanism" or way it happens, but not so much that the need to know exactly how would overrule my desire to experiment further.

I feel that having some kind of connection to the other dreamer helps in being able to zone in on a target like someone else said in another thread here. Whether or not it is a pre conceived notion about a person or an emotional connection that draws 2 together I have no idea. maybe its both, the same as what draws two people together in waking life. ??? O.K. just thinking out loud.

Here's my comment on this topic from the other thread. I know its not fleshed out well enough to make much sense to most people without a lot more explanation.

Regarding how the ability to share dreams 'evolved' if it seems to be good for nothing....Part of that is because our subconscious minds do this sort of thing a lot but screen it off from our conscious minds. People share thoughts a lot, even though they're not consciously in on it. Another part of it is that a big reason for our need for privacy is other people are untrustworthy. And I think that's true more of the animals in our world than in some other places. Our psychic ability is sort of a degenerate form of something that's stronger and more open elsewhere, and we have it because we're tied to those other places in ways that we don't recognize, because of the way our ability is stunted.

Wonderfull, wonderful, Dthoughts.

This is an exciting thread question. And I really like your second post:

***

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Everything is game.

Look at it like a thought experiment.

Even if ur theory includes the absence of telepathy. Or if you do not agree with my philosophy.

Make ur own story.

I advise playful contemplation!

Dthoughts

My belief system is outside of evolution. It short-circuits "me" power triping on others and of feeling that someone elses "me" might be power tripping on "me".

I don’t believe humans or animals or plants have individual souls. They don't have psychic abilities.

But

Us humans don't have the metaphors (stories) to form accurate concepts (words) to understand and talk about what is actually, really happening.

Using the ... the ... wrong metaphors (stories) then trying to think and talk with the wrong concepts (words) that develop out of the ... wrong ... metaphors ...

Well ...

We end up frightened. And instinctively don't want to know about "it". We don't want to do share-dreaming cos we don't want to be controlled by another. We don't want to have to fight and keep fighting (in lucid dreams) those whome we perceive want to controll us.

Thing is...there is a massive hole in our understanding of reality. And things won't work untill some of that hole in our understanding is ....

We take for granted that since we have personal, individual, physical bodies that we also, must, obviously, have personal, individual, eternal souls.

We don't.

And that's the rub.

That's the massive hole in our perception on reality.

Mutual Dreaming, shared dreaming, etc won't "gell" won't "crystalize" properly untill we have metaphors (stories) that lead to concepts (words) to enable us to "think" and talk about "it".

Sorry

That sounds unintelligible.

Sorry

That is not unintelligible havago. You're one of the most intelligent people who post here, and I understand you.

I think that the thought that we don't have individual souls is not quite right either, it's a half truth. But I think it's a half step in the right direction, and I don't have the whole answer either.

I love the other thread where confidentiality is discussed in detail.

I am not confidential. I'm not secretive.

That's why I find myself here on Dreamviews instead of where all my old friends are (iasd dream sites)

My lack of confidentiality got me banned off iasd discussion boards twice. The second time was a life ban.

Then I was life-banned off the invisible, private, iasd site set up for the annual iasd pcd psi-dream competition practice.

I even got banned off the 2012 pdc. But I didn't get banned off last years 2013 pdc. Last year was my 6th consecutive pdc.

I don't dare show my face on the big new iasd dream forum, Dream Cloud. Couldn't bear getting banned off that too.

I don't want to know any ones private stuff.

When the four of us (in 2008) were building the dream mandala (my avatar) off-shore, between the Grange and Henley Beach Jetty's, I knew it was important that any and all dream game targets must be of a nature that would not upset or frighten any infant.

That is where I am comming from.

While we live, the infant within, lives. That inner-child share-dreams easily and spontaneously. That little infant is interested in gentle, reassuring, cuddles but is not interested in sex.

It is believed by Hindu's that the fetus and new born is totally at one with ... oceanic unity ... but gradually disengages as the poor thing grows.

Meditation brings us back into contact with the oceanic consciousnesses of the infant.

Certain stages of sleep also take us to the oceanic consciousness of the baby within us.

All we need to do is fall asleep gently by listening to our respiration and pulsating heart, to enter the oceanic unity where remote viewing and share-dreaming is easy, spontaneous, and pleasant.

Because

It's the infant within. The child we once were. Doing the playfull remote viewing and share dreaming.

Unity with Oceanic Consciousnesses is where we really live.

I'm not too big in secrecy. I always keep my curtains open. Some form of secrecy is a necessary, like for instance, my bank account. Or where I keep my belongings. I even have some memories that I would like to keep secret. Not that I am ashamed. But I fear the consequences. Putting yourself in a vulnerable position to some people will inevitably lead to suffering. Or maybe I am dwelling too much in the negative. Ofcourse, I am perfectly fine with telling my secrets to a trustworthy friend. Oh and Havago, please don't apologize. Hehe. Especially don't apologize for saying something that makes perfect sense! You make me feel guilty, woman! Besides, this thread is perhaps not nearly as serious as you seem to imply. I hope we can generate more discussion or shared dreams even but who cares, really

And I suppose that there is a mechanism for shared dreaming. Havago's Inner child. And ours. Lives in another plane of existence. This is the nature of our consciousness (I think). I do adhere to Darwinism. I thought about this yesterday and I think Darwin made an intelligeble observation. Evolution happens. I don't want to sound preachy, but the nature of evolution the way I see it is not random mutations or purposeless comptetition. The fact that main chemicals active in dreaming are mostly plant chemicals tells me something about the nature of dreams itself. I think they are slowly guiding us back to our roots as single celled organisms or further back. It kind of makes sense to me to think of it this way because at some point we where once one organism. I mean.. DNA had to start somewhere, right? All pure speculation here.. But if we take into account Panspermia as the roots of DNA, then who knows how far back we are able to trace back our roots?

Synchronis events. Like two people happening to meet each other at the same time by coincidence. Is not really coincidence. I think it is not a coincidence that on a deep level we share a common root. There are some pieces of DNA that are synchronistic in every living being. That little piece of DNA set an angle for every other organism to evolve and live towards a certain direction. We share that as a common ancestor. I don't mean to say that DNA is the missing link that makes us share dreams. I think it is deeper than that.. Late for school once again. Have to go now.

Oh, Forgot to like ur post Havago. I truly value ur input. Same to Kadie and Shadowofwind. Wasn't sure if I shuld copy ur post, Shadowofwind. I'm glad that you did. Thanks for posting my DV buddies. I Love'you all. Hope we can get more input, i'm not bored yet.

Prehaps telepathy was a way for communication from the start. Our original way of communication before sign language and verbal language came to be. Because the mouth was only mean't for the Physical body to eat in the 3rd Dimension. In Astral Projection thoughts are more of a law and in Lucid dreaming. I am not sure if you can speak in Astral Projection as I haven't exprience enough with it.
For shared dreaming I do not think it's impossible to have them. If it's possible to see another person Astral projecting with you and interacting with you and recalling it when both people wake up I don't see why share dreaming is different. For Astral Projection you use your thoughts to make it happen and you can do the same with dreams. I think people do not wish to accept this as it may invade privacy or they'll feel that there's nothing special only to them. People could be sharing dreams and not even realize it as they are not lucid in their dreams and can forget what they've done.

Umm, yes,

I think the Big Bang started evolution. But I think that from the Big Bang till the time the entire universe cooled down to Absolute Zero (–273.15ºC) all matter, including organic life (when it evolved) was souless.

★★★★

Absolute zero* is the lowest possible temperature where nothing could be colder and no heat energy remains in a substance.

Absolute zero is the point at which the fundamental particles of nature have minimal vibrational motion, retaining only quantum mechanical, zero-point energy-induced particle motion.

By international agreement, absolute zero is defined as precisely; 0 K on the Kelvin scale, which is a thermodynamic (absolute) temperature scale; and –273.15 degrees Celsius on the Celsius scale.

★★★★

Before the event that happened at Universal-Absolute-Zero there was no ghost in the machine. No living (organic) thing had something that survived its death.

But when the universe finally dropped to Absolute Zero ... matter offered no more resistance to energy. This caused an unimaginable explosion. All matter became pure energy and the One True Zero god was born.

That god was instantly merged with all matter throughout all time (from the Big Bang to Absolute Zero).

Now all matter, including U & I have an eternal soul. Now, there is a "ghost in the machine".

Ultimately there is only One soul.

This piece of lifes puzzle is why share dreaming is possible.

This is why anyone can dream remote view.

And

Because, all that psychic power is because we are now One in the eternalBeloved, real remote viewing and shared dreaming is extremely safe.

But

When folk are missing this piece of the puzzle they can suffer painful delusions about share dreaming and other psi-dreaming stuff. But those delusions are just wild nightmares.

Overall I do not think we were suppose to have dreams. Dreaming was never suppose to happen. When a person falls asleep they are suppose to only have an OBE. When somone Astral Projects they become purely consciousness , A mobile consciousness , I believe if someone who is a mobile consciousness finds someone who is asleep their consciousness will be low enough for a mobile consciousness to enter. The mobile consciousness should then be suck in their dream and exprience what they are expriencing because to me OBE is a telepathic communication.

Because to the core Astral Projection is like a mobile thought that moves. It's an expriencing thought. Thoughts are the key in making things happen. Consciousness is to control the thought and with consciousness and thought you become an expriencing thought.

To me the subconscious is the brain itself. It's why the dream is there in the first place. That's why the subconscious can not Astral Project like consciousness can. Science truly is only talking about the subconscious when they say we are the brains as when they see the physical appearance of the subconscious which would be neurons.
The subconscious and consciousness are fighting over the physical body. The subconscious controls all the nerves the eletric impulses to make us move. But it can all be done consciously and now I believe if someone does fully become conscious with their physical body that they will no longer dream anymore.
They will only have an OBE. Now I know why this topic about shared dreaming has been on my mind for the pass week.

Originally Posted by ViIe

Overall I do not think we were suppose to have dreams. Dreaming was never suppose to happen. When a person falls asleep they are suppose to only have an OBE. When somone Astral Projects they become purely consciousness , A mobile consciousness , I believe if someone who is a mobile consciousness finds someone who is asleep their consciousness will be low enough for a mobile consciousness to enter. The mobile consciousness should then be suck in their dream and exprience what they are expriencing because to me OBE is a telepathic communication.

Fanatic input ViIe (Eye of Ra ). I share your perspective. I think that it helps to be lucid dreaming. Especially lucid dreaming might actually serve as a protection of some sorts. Since you are not Traveling out of body. You are playing in ur own field, so to speak. Nothing can harm the lucid dreamer if it is conscious enough to fight back.

The subconscious and consciousness are fighting over the physical body. The subconscious controls all the nerves the eletric impulses to make us move.

Very interesting.

But it can all be done consciously and now I believe if someone does fully become conscious with their physical body that they will no longer dream anymore.
They will only have an OBE. Now I know why this topic about shared dreaming has been on my mind for the pass week.

That is in accordance to what I know from Zen Buddhism. In Zen meditation you are taught to place your focus inward. Consequently, this leads to awareness of the physical body. I met a woman who has been a devoted Zen Buddhist for years. She also told me that she does not dream anymore. And had experiences in meditation where she was no longer was in her body. Her input was that experienced meditators will no longer feel their body either. Even though their body is in physical pain from sitting in meditation for hours-on-end.

I still think dreams are an expression of duality. All matter exists as both a wave and a particle, dreams are just the wave form counterpart to our solid particle reality. Quantum physics says that by observing a wave form, it collapses, creating a particle reality. WHen you focus on an arcehtype in a dream, it too collapses down one of it's varied associations, manifesting a reality

Attention follows associative links, and those associative links are zero length.

Havago, My thoughts exactly!

Check this out if you want: Atoms Reach Record Temperature, Colder than Absolute Zero | LiveScience .The gist of what I understood is that It tells us that Temperature is Cyclic. I think our universe follows the same fate exactly as you implied

There is, like you put in stars, a quantum zero-energy state. I think this zero-point is the beginning of the big bang and is still all-pervasive throughout every inch of the universe. There's a lot more I wish to say and learn about it. I think it is THE mechanism for shared dreaming. Because I speculate that in this very property of the universe we are still connected on this quantum zero-level. Like a wormhole is theoretically connected to other parts of the universe. So are we.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I still think dreams are an expression of duality. All matter exists as both a wave and a particle, dreams are just the wave form counterpart to our solid particle reality. Quantum physics says that by observing a wave form, it collapses, creating a particle reality. WHen you focus on an arcehtype in a dream, it too collapses down one of it's varied associations, manifesting a reality

I like this, The Cusp. Can you give concrete examples of this archetypal collapse from ur experience?
Heared of the same thing happening in Astral projection and DMT experience. When you get to the core of you find some kind of Astral DNA patterns. Not my experiences, very interesting tho, so i hope you can share something with me.

This is an awesome thread. There are so many great perspectives and ideas flowing! Thanks Dthoughts for sharing and posting this thread. I love havago's absolute zero post. I wonder ( out loud) if this would be an argument for universal consciousness. Somehow all life formend with a particle that is still in each of us?

Originally Posted by kadie

This is an awesome thread. There are so many great perspectives and ideas flowing! Thanks Dthoughts for sharing and posting this thread. I love havago's absolute zero post. I wonder ( out loud) if this would be an argument for universal consciousness. Somehow all life formend with a particle that is still in each of us?

Well.. thanks Kadie! Very sweet because I am actually kind of insecure about things like that. Trying to conduct a thread and social constructions is surely not one of my talents. In fact, I am glad that there are even replies. And still are! Yey!

And.. I think you would have a good argument for universal consciousness.. But only really if that argument involves quantum entanglement as well.

Arguments accepted! GO!

You were very accurate when you stated that dreams are like a mental playground for yourself. I don't believe science is incorrect either I honestly think people have the right idea science just hasn't found an explanation for an OBE and have been confused about the subconscious mixing it to be us. I look at it this way, science is just like another language to decipher the inner workings for Reality. They're not incorrect and I can tell you know that as well. For consciousness instead of thinking it's more of knowing and being aware of what's out there in Reality. Which is through expriencing an OBE to actually be aware of how it is and what you are. Two correct languages finding the truth to Reality in a different way. What I wonder is how much understanding would there be if the two could actually be compatible. If science ever discover that OBE was real and if through an OBE a person could actually see if thoughts can actually make things happen in the 3rd Dimension through the help of science.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Havago, My thoughts exactly!
I like this, The Cusp. Can you give concrete examples of this archetypal collapse from ur experience?
Heared of the same thing happening in Astral projection and DMT experience. When you get to the core of you find some kind of Astral DNA patterns. Not my experiences, very interesting tho, so i hope you can share something with me.

I'm walking across a parking lot in RL when something shiny catches my attention. At first it looks like a christmas ornament, but as I get a little closer it looks like a pop can. There was a moment it literally changed. Then as I got closer again, i saw what it really was, the wrapper to some european chocolate bar.

When you try to fly in a dream and get stuck with shitty swimming physics. In real life, probably 99% of the movement you do while in a horizontal position is in the water swimming. Sure, there is a source of fictional flying to draw on bringing down that 99%, but it's not quite as strong as actual swimming. It's not just random that we get stuck with swimming physics when we try to fly, it's just a strong quantum probability. Unless you've never done any actual swimming. You can guesstimate these things.

The end result of collapsing one of these puppies depends entirely on it's assiciations. Like with the swimming example, if you've never gone swimming, odds are you won't get swimming physics when you try to fly. THese systems or probability waveforms are based on random events you've been exposed to. You either take the chaos magic approach of taking stock of what that archetype means to you to guesstimate it's outcome, or you take the ceremonial approach and plan out your experiences to build a structure with probabilities tilted in your favor.

If all matter exists as a particle and a waveform, and we are made of matter, then we should also exist as a waveform. I say that's what dreams are, the waveform counterpart to our waking particle reality.

This thread is very interesting. It really made me think a bit about this whole shared dreaming bit. If you look at the human body, and break it down into a molecular level, from what I have researched and believe, we are made up of small atoms/cells or whatever that hold a vibration. We look dense, but if you break it down it might look like there is space between each particle. If you look at the world from our view there is space all over the place. If you look at the world from afar it looks dense, kind of like our body. Our body is made up of vibrating energy. When you die, the energy doesn't die, it moves on. The energy is all connected. Some people can see the energy in the air or auras. The energy is touching energy. There is no such thing as an so to speak "empty" space. So if my energy is connected in one way or another to your energy, how could we not be able to experience shared dreaming? We are all maybe individual but also maybe part of one. I can project my energy towards you and get a reaction. You would think that even with the connectedness of energy that with the right intent or direction you could tap into almost anything you wanted to. One example of mine is where I haven't talked to this friend for a long time, maybe even a year. I was talking to wife about him one and how we used to bike together everyday and this and that. It was an intense conversation about him. I RARELY talked about him. The next day, he called me. He lives in a completely different state than me. Again, this happened a few weeks ago. I drove past a friends house and I'm NEVER in that area. I was with my wife and we started to talk about him and I asked if we should stop and say hello. We kept driving. About 1 hour later he called me. I asked him if he saw me drive by his house. He didn't. I talk to him maybe once every other month. I notice this kind of thing happens a lot. Like there is something that is unseen that connects us and almost when we use our thoughts we can project or even connect to them in one way or another. IDK, lol. But you guys have some great thoughts going here. Some are WAY beyond me, and maybe that is because I am not ready to understand them yet, but I'm staying open minded none the less Peace...

Thanks for keeping up with the spirit of the thread, enigmatik!
Good anecdotal story too. I can relate to it as well. I think we can all get a chance see the interconnectedness of our thoughts and intentions of we only give it enough attention.

Have to remember to watch a documentary which claimed to prove 'the weight of the soul' . Some dutch scientist apparently showed that we lose 2 grams of weight after we die. Who knows..

On a side note, does anyone else here feel this synchronicity? Like in my post above about simply thinking about someone and maybe receiving a phone call? Another thing was like the other day someone said the word, "recluse" which I rarely hear and put a lot of energy into thinking about it. I even laughed a bit about it. They called my friend a recluse. But none the less, I REALLY did mentally masterbate on the word and I just DON'T know why. The next day I flipped on the radio for 2 seconds and immediately the word recluse was spoken by a guy on some radio station. I was like, WTF?? Then I REALLY put energy into thinking about it. Well, that SAME day I went to the library. Here I am looking up something on Buddhism or chakras or something on one of their computers. On the search list I see "recluse Indian". So now I'm thinking hmmm.... Instantly I look up and there is a Native American walking by me. Thinks like this happen to me a lot, especially if I pay attention and stay present in the moment and not so distracted. Even yesterday, my wife and myself were looking at houses. One was on Arctic Lane. I was thinking, wow, what a awesome street name, plus I really liked one of the houses on this cul de sac. So we are at the Coop buying some groceries. A girl walks by with a sweatshirt on and on the back at the bottom of the sweatshirt it says, "arctic cat." I show my wife and explain to her this type of thing. She is like hmm. Lol. The other day I went to get tea. I sat down was researching about the stuff I always do (dreaming, Buddhism, compassion, etc). In come 2 OLD ladies and sit down next to me at a large table. I am about to leave and I was like... why don't I try to listen to them a bit. So blankly I stare at my computer screen and try to focus in on what they are saying. This woman starts talking about a world that is changing by a universal consciousness. And then goes onto a WHOLE other sort of stuff that I am into. She is like 70 years old... WTH?? I wanted to jump into the conversation, but instead I just listened until I had to go. Even though this time it might have just been a coincidence, I try to pay attention to things like this. But none the less the more I focus on something, the more it seems to come back to me one way or another. And with shared dreaming, there has to be a connection that can be made. I know intent falls a lot on these lines and people use it all the time including myself. Even this gets results. But what if you passionately put your intent to the 1000th degree to make a connection. IDK. Lol.. now I'm just rambling, but I love this stuff. You guys have helped me evolve a lot the last 5 months and I'm grateful.

I get that a lot! Often with the phone. I'll be like " Oh darn, I should give so and so a call and as I reach for the phone, they are already calling. I get mothers intuition a lot also. Not so much as when they were little and away from home, but I still get it. My sister gets that mothers intuition a lot also. But this thread is about shared dreaming. I think that just having a feel for someone is what connects us. I know for me that having a mental impression of someone is usually what proceeds a sync. So I'm guessing that would be the method I would use if I were to attempt DS. Or even the persons Avatar, because I would associate it with that person.
I tend to think a bit like others here that we do have innate telepathic ability, but because we are advanced with language and fine motor skill, we dont or have not had to use it like some animals do.
If havago is on to something with the absolute zero theory, then what binds us after would have to be an element found worldwide. Something that we all posses. However if there is a common element (besides water) what is it? How could we utilize it? Can we supplement it? I'm sure this would lead to a ton more questions. Maybe water itself is the common element and since we all have that, maybe we are just one big organism? I'm new to all this, so I'm just throwing ideas out...lol
As far as entanglement theory, I'll have to go back and re read some stuff I looked at before then come back and comment O.K. Dthoughts?