Random Thoughts on the phenomenon know as "OBE"

I’m not the first to admit I don’t really know much about OBE's (on a personal level and a view beyond myself).

I would like to talk about the exploration of this out of the ordinary 'occurrence'......

This would be an interesting area to explore peoples view-points and discuss what people actually think about OBE’s (if this has been done before I apologize in advance).

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I personally don't consider it a matter of saying people are deluded when they come onto the board saying they have experienced OBEs (unless you consider the suggestion of OBEs as a state of delusion?). I think it's a matter of discussion and the acceptance of
questioning your understanding of what an OBE is.

For example, someone could say they got abducted by aliens last week; some people will agree or disagree with this claim, it doesn't effect the belief one has in the experience if you just question it, it just helps people from their own perceptions to understand the claim. Each individual has their own understanding of what an OBE is, from apparently little knowledge to a wide knowledge. You have to keep an open mind on both sides of the coin. I think its a case for appropriate diagnosis, how do WE know that someone else has experienced an OBE or an OBE which could clearly be identifiable as a Lucid Dream? Giving someone a wrong diagnosis in this case if from a religious background could effect their life in a negative way by scaring them I.E. think the devil is inside them or they are evil etc. If I personally could get a clearer understanding of OBE’s (not
other peoples accounts) then maybe I could be a better judge and advance my human perceptions in what OBEs are.

I'm not a skeptic, just very interested in human advancements. Could anyone recommend any key preparations for inducing OBEs? All this talk is getting me interesting in experimenting ‘beyond’ Lucid Dreaming, if my mind can conceive such an act :-)

Can you believe in something so much you can clearly delude your perceptions in believing it really happened?

i believe that is a yes.

ive had 2 LDs where ive floated back into my body and then woke up. clearly someone would call that an OBE, but i noticed some of the things in my house were out of place, so perhaps just an LD. a good place for OBE info is www.astralpulse.com . ive read a ton on that site and on their boards and i gotta say, it really just sounds like delusional LDers to me. seriously.

they had a test to see if it was an OBE: look at a playing card, but dont think about the card or it may change to something else. maybe im ignorant on the subject but i was under the impression that an OBE means to physically travel earth. i dont know

maybe my lack of "OBEs" doesnt give me the right to comment, but there u go

AFAIK OBE means to actually leave your body and function on primary material or etherial plane. In this state you are supposed to be able to interact or at least accurately perceive real world events. (kinda like being a ghost)

This definition means it's really easy to check if your OBE is genuine or it's just a lucid dream. While in this state, look for something that you can easily check while being awake. (for example I used to look for a number plate on a random car outside). Memorize the data and wake up. Check it vs the real life. If it matches you had an OBE. However if it doesnt, you just been fooled by a lucid dream.

There's a great deal of misunderstanding about OBEs in general. In a lot of books published before the internet came around people used random personal terms when referring to lucid dreams ( same thing happens right now - some stubborn people still refer to LDs using their personal terms - think of nesgirl and her term "sci fi" ) .


Now, lucid dreams and particularly WILDs can take many forms. They are affected by your personal belief to the extreme extent. The point is: it doesnt matter if you are floating out of your body or being pulled out of it or whatever. If you cant prove that you were on a primary material or etherial planes, you are just deeply mislead.

"it really just sounds like delusional LDers to me. seriously. " < very true


PS I see the term OBE repeatedly used on this board as a symbol of status. Some people think they have to have one to be a "cool" lucid dreamer....

I did dive off a three hundred foot cliif...........but that was in my first lucid...........maybe I have a death wish, but then don't we all. Strangely enough it was a bit like that James Blunt video (You're Beautiful) which has only been out a few weeks.

I have had an OBE but this is all I say because I certainly cant make you understand barring actual experience.

Learning how to control your mind is a huge part of OBE. It's like the Zen monk that goes into a deep trance and transcends reality.

Actually, about two years ago, I was on your side. "I think that OBE's are just an advanced form of LDing."

Yeah... Well the week after that I read a thing that Kaniaz posted about a simple way to try to induce an OBE and the next morning I woke up and tried it and it was a complete success within 5 minutes. After that I became so obsessed with it and tryed very hard to induce it again with no luck, my mental practice was erratic, I never did it regularly, never had the discipline.

The notable difference between dreaming and projecting for me is the noticeable gain of awareness and the clearness of thoughts. In a dream I can never think, everthing is vague and dark and wont connect. Just primal subconcious thoughts manifesting themselves.

oh yeah Berserk_Exodus, im so opened minded that i am willing to accept you may be speaking truth, or maybe OBEs happen to really just be a higher state of consciousness that can be attained in an LD, higher than an "LD", but an LD... ?

I've been looking into OBE and Astral Projection.
I think i may have managed Astral Projection at some point, judging by the information i've read on the Net, including that at astral pulse.

It wasn't so much leaving my body, as my mind being somewhere else that was totally different. Nor was i dreaming, or lucid dreaming. I was perfectly conscious and aware of my surroundings...but my body was asleep.
that's the only way i can explain it.
I've had dreams where i'm in the 'third person' that is, not actively participating in the dream, but watching it. I'm told these dreams are a sort of astral projection. Any thoughts anyone?

By request, I split the thread to Minor tiff (split from OOBE topic in Beyond Dreaming) ;)

My understanding is that out of body experiences are quite different to projections and lucid dreaming, and that only people near death have experienced true OBE's as this is when the soul has completely left the body and gone to another "plane" so to speak. Whereas when we dream or project these are different levels of vibrations/planes with much more interference.
Projections tend to be more realistic than lucid dreaming because when we go lucid something becomes obvious too us that it is a dream and the dreamer usually is aware that it is unrealistic. Projections can be either a journey or forewarning. They are extremely clear, almost like the dreamer is a camera or third person - I agree with Irishcream on this. A projection is almost like a record or snapshot for the dreamer of a specific event (which may eventualise). Sometimes, it can be a journey or a place. Skeptics might say this is a trick of the mind, but if you have written it down in detail beforehand, you can justify it to yourself and it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks!

I don't care if I can convince anyone about OBE's. All I know is the first time I was out of my body I know I was out of my body. I was only out of my body for 2 minutes at most. I fell out of my body when I did it. I asked all my friends if they saw me fall. They did not. I was writing a social studies essay in class. when I got back in my body I had already done some work that I didn't do myself. I just knew that I went outside of my body. I couldn't get the feeling out.

OBE means Out of Body Experience. You are still on earth outside your body. When it happens you will know it happens. I had two more after that.

http://www.psywww.com/asc/obe/missz.html

Interesting read :-).

~Sean

Yeah, I'm convinced enough of their reality. Once I was able to determine what clothes my mom was wearing on the other side of my bedroom door, and that's all the corroboration I needed. I mean, she's got quite a few clothes, if it were just a subconscious lucky guess it would be a pretty damn good one.

I've actually had more OBEs than lucid dreams, but I'd kind of like to even that out.

i have had a few OBE's and lots of lucid dreams and some combinations of both. in a lucid dream everything is ussually some what unstable and different in detail. In the OBEs ive had there is a numb feeling and ussually flashes of light and color. the detail is stable and vivid, i always feel me being tugged into my body before i wake up. i have never gotten far enoughe from my bed to take a good look at my surroundings and test them to see if it was real. Sometimes strange things start happening and i end up in an LD.

WILDs and OBEs are really similar i suppose. Even thoe i have expirienced an out of body sensation i am still skeptical about it

*peeks her head in*

ohhh my....

*runs away before causing any trouble*

Yeah, doing a WILD you sometimes get vibrations, which are a precursor to leaving your body. From that point you could go either way, lucid dream or OBE. It's basically the same technique for both.

I don't have many lucid dreams (yet), and most of them have been from me trying to OBE but falling asleep instead of popping out.

EDIT

P.S. Until about 20 years ago, scientists claimed lucid dreams were impossible, and were either self-induced hallucinations or just vivid daydreams that weren't actually sleep.

OBE doubters take note. Just because it hasn't been explained doesn't mean it ain't real.

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Originally posted by polio vaccine
Yeah, doing a WILD you sometimes get vibrations, which are a precursor to leaving your body

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ohhhh my god http://www.smileys.ws/sm/msn/00000012.gif

Look, I wish you'd cut it out with that. If you don't believe in OBEs, that's fine. Doesn't mean you're right, but you're entitled to believe what you want to.

But please, don't limit the potential experiences of other people. I think I mentioned vibrations in another thread and you made some similarly useless comment, despite my explanation.

I'll explain it again: doing a WILD is pretty much the same way you would go into an OBE. For both you need to be in the same state of mind, and thus you do the same stuff. If you feel vibrations during a WILD, it's because you're doing the same thing as an wake-initiated OBE would entail.

If you don't believe me you can go ahead and prove it to yourself. Or don't, whatever. But again, don't act as if you know something for certain when you clearly don't.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I really wanted to stay out of this thread but couldn't resist and I apologize if my prior useless remarks were rude. I am just trying to keep this misconception about OBEs from spreading but it seems that I am failing. So I will let you all think what you like. But I will also speak up.

In fact I entirely believe in OBEs. I just think that people have extremely incorrect definitions as to what they are. I agree completely with Ev.

I have done it hundreds of times and I have proven (at least to myself) that it is in fact a FAKE OBE that you experience during WILDs and not a real one. I believe that experiences like Yume had could be a real OBE...etc. But what happens as a result of sp and the vibrational stages of WILD is not a real out of body experience. At least that's my opinion.

Anyway I have given my opinion on the matter in several other threads, here are some examples:

Here's a thread I started when I wanted to learn how to OBE and thought I was and an excerpt from it...
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8882

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Originally posted by Aquanina
Wow thank you so much for all this information. Actually it is EXTREMELY relevant to my post...yesterday during a nap, I guess I had a WILD...anyhow, I got the vibrations and this painfully loud vibrating and ringing in my ears almost to the point of scaring me awake (its never been this intense before). I wanted to prove if I could OBE/AP so I sat up and was able to get out of my body. Now this is the part that really really interests me, because it was talked about in your post Xis. When I got out of my body...I didn't feel complete, things were missing, I think I could only see out of one eye, my arms were kinda lifeless at my sides and I swear to God I was walking like Quasimotto the Hunchback (sp). Anyway, I walk in this extremely awkward way to my bed room door, and I think that since I am not a physical thing that I can just go through the door so I start running and actually bang right into the door. It didn't work. So I turn the knob and open the door and leave my bedroom...I wanted to make it upstairs to where my parents were to see if I could see what my dad was wearing, b/c he had just come home and I hadn't seen him earlier and I figured if I saw him and remembered what he was wearing I would be able to prove that I had an OBE/AP? But I only made it out of my bedroom and halfway through my tv room, didn't even make it up the stairs. But I think this was because I wasn't completely \"there\", like all my chakras didn't come with me? Maybe this was why I was walking like a freaking Hunchback/Frankenstein? It was so strange. Now I have decided to make an easier test for myself, I will pick a playing card at random, without looking at it, face up, on my nightstand before I try to OBE/AP (face up so I don't have to deal with turning it over, that might be a little too complex for a beginner), then all I will have to do is sit up and turn my head and try to read the card and try to proove if this is real or not. I will post my results. Either way, this all kinda freaks me out.

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Here's a thread I started when I realized I could try to prove I was having OBEs
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9206

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Originally posted by Aquanina
Ok...so I've been experimenting alot with trying to OBE. I actually think I've almost gotten there, or maybe I have. I am working on an experiment right now to prove it, and I'll let you guys know the result. Anyways, I was just wondering...if you have an OBE...and you leave your body and wander around, what keeps your body alive?? *I'm just asking b/c I've been having more and more success with OBEing and I had this thought and it sort of frightened me...if my \"spirit\" or \"mind\" is somewhere else...how is my body staying alive? Could this be dangerous? Does anyone have an answer? Is the fact that we DO NOT die (or even piss our pants like you do when you become unconscious) proof that OBEing isn't real? Any feedback would be great. *

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And here are some threads after the experiments failed...

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Originally posted by Aquanina+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Aquanina)</div>

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I have experienced EXACTLY what you have experienced....many many times!! No, you aren't crazy. Yes, those strange and almost frightening sensations are a result of sleep paralysis, and NO you aren't having OBEs. For awhile when I would be in that stage before wake and dreaming and those weird sensations would occur, I thought I would try to OBE and sit up, but usually experienced some resistance. One time I only could get my head up, another time I got all the way out of my body though I walked extremely awkwardly. I thought I was having OBEs, but after discusing this with someone who knows alot more than me about OBEs, I discovered that they are just FAKE OBEs, resulting from being in a trance-like state (similar to hypnosis state) before you begin to dream. In reality, OBEs only occur in your deepest sleep, where most people cannot sustain clarity or awareness and that's why people experience them during near-death experiences. So to sum things up...what's going on is normal and it sounds like you are well on your way to having some WILDs! [/b]

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<!--QuoteBegin-Aquanina
I'm still not really sure about the whole OOBE thing or Astral Projection thing? I've had weird experiences also where I will find myself floating in my room. One experience I floated out of my body, and up through the many layers of ceiling and up through the roof...eventually I started floating up through rooms that weren't even there and when I looked down I could see about 20 layers of rooms that I had floated through and my room at the bottom level was just a reflection in a beautiful christams tree ornament. I'm just saying, that what you might think of as an AP, or OOBE...could really just be another form of lucid dreaming. A different time I floated out of my body, I had no control, something was pulling me, my arms were outstretched...I floated up off my bed, rotated 90 degrees so that I looked like Christ on the cross sort of, and floated forward...expepecting to go through my wall, I instead, just kept bumping into my closet and couldn't get out of my room either. I've also had many experiences where I have tried to \"climb\" out of my body during that light trance-ish sp vibrational state...all resulting in fake obe like experiences. I'm just saying...call it whatever you want...but you can't really put a label on stuff like this.

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Originally posted by Aquanina
Oh and if you don't believe me, just try to prove it for yourself. I had a very simple technique for proving whether or not I was OBEing... *

But yeah D.O. you are absolutely right. I was one of those people who thought I was experiencing OBEs this way until I tried to actually PROVE it by using a photo album. I would lay down and place the photo album on my nightstand and flip to a random page without looking. Then I would try to look at the photo during my \"OBE\" experience and would prove to the whole world that I WAS HAVING OBEs!! *

Well let's see...one time the book wasn't even there. Other times I couldn't get my head to turn to look at the photo album...other times I would float up off my bed and would completely miss even a chance at looking at the photo. Then...this ONE TIME I was having an \"OBE\" and I remembered to look at the photo album...but instead...there was a 4 foot tall jack rabbit wearing prison stripes leaning over my bed, staring at me with this awful creepy grin. Reminds me of a character from Dark Wonderland (see my sig below). Anyway...think it MIGHT have been my subconsious saying...HEY DUMBASS!!! THESE ARE JUST DREAMS!!!!!!!! *

Anyway, I let go of any though that I was experiencing obes. I hope that you guys who think you have experienced an OBE during light sleep, just try to prove it...for yourselves. And I hope you guys realize that real OBEs can only occur in the deepest stages of sleep, where few are truly able to become consious. I do believe that they exist, but I think ALOT of people are misguided about them. I have never had a real one.


Feel free to disagree all you want guys.

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Here are the threads where those quotes were taken from in case you want to read more:
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9476
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13611
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13359
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16374

I hope you guys might find this at least a tad useful. And sorry I didn't mean to stir anything up. This has just been my experiences with learning how to OBE, thinking I was...thinking I could prove it...proving myself wrong...realizing they are just dreams. ;)

Okay well I'm sorry for responding without knowing your situation on it. But you see how a remark like that wouldn't tell me anything of your objections, only that you object.

If all we differ on is the role of the vibrations then I guess we don't really differ on much. I still contend that the vibes have much of an effect on OBEs, simply from my experience with them, assumptions which I felt were confirmed by things I read about OBEs.

But who knows, maybe they're dream vibes instead. Anyway, sorry for any hostility.

Happy dreaming

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Originally posted by polio vaccine
Okay well I'm sorry for responding without knowing your situation on it. *But you see how a remark like that wouldn't tell me anything of your objections, only that you object.

If all we differ on is the role of the vibrations then I guess we don't really differ on much. *I still contend that the vibes have much of an effect on OBEs, simply from my experience with them, assumptions which I felt were confirmed by things I read about OBEs.

But who knows, maybe they're dream vibes instead. *Anyway, sorry for any hostility. *

Happy dreaming

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Yes...next time you want to comment like that, you should try to look up that person's history(not trying to be rude, but I hate it when people get embaressed)!
My thoughts are a bit different (b/c I am still a bit thanatophobic)....but Seeker is trying to help w/that...I think it is possible....but I also think it is possible to go & read a book in a LD!! :D .......or in other words, a S_____...........

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Originally posted by polio vaccine
*Anyway, sorry for any hostility. *
Happy dreaming

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Likewise. Cheers. ;)

since i suck at doing wilds, im not going to hesitate in thowing in my opinion. OBEs are just LDS! thats why they are so similar! 8)

It seems to me that a person who was adept at OBE's would be a prime candidate for the whole James Randi challenge, but perhaps that is too low and earthly of a bother for such a person...

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Originally posted by jay dawg
since i suck at doing wilds, im not going to hesitate in thowing in my opinion. OBEs are just LDS! thats why they are so similar! 8)

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I thought so too when I first started doing them, I didn't really care if they were real or not as long as they felt real enough to be fun. But I was able to prove to myself that they're authentic by verifying details on the other side of my bedroom door, namely what clothes my mom was wearing and seeing that she was setting up the vacuum (which woke me up when she started it).

So now I'm personally convinced. And what's the James Randi challenge?

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Originally posted by Jrels
It seems to me that a person who was adept at OBE's would be a prime candidate for the whole James Randi challenge, but perhaps that is too low and earthly of a bother for such a person...

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I don't like to expose myself....& there was this 'James' person on my website, who kept spamming his little million dollar thing on there to Michelle & the Loch nes....so I told him to shut up, & get the heck out of my website...& next time, had him banned, & I bet Icedawg would do the same!! :D
No point in telling anyone that Michelle & I go & read books in LDs anyways, b/c they'd obviously not believe us!!
PS: he doesn't do those....he only does that w/guess wizards & telephone!!

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Originally posted by polio vaccine


I thought so too when I first started doing them, I didn't really care if they were real or not as long as they felt real enough to be fun. But I was able to prove to myself that they're authentic by verifying details on the other side of my bedroom door, namely what clothes my mom was wearing and seeing that she was setting up the vacuum (which woke me up when she started it).

So now I'm personally convinced. And what's the James Randi challenge?

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could be so, but isnt it possible that you mind perceived the vacuum with your super human sleep-ears? obe could be real, but it may be more of a mental travel rather than spirit. i mean i think the mind can perceive things that your conscious cant, including ESP type shit. dreams may be an easy way to open the door of this perception! maybe

James Randi:

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7910

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Originally posted by jay dawg



could be so, but isnt it possible that you mind perceived the vacuum with your super human sleep-ears? obe could be real, but it may be more of a mental travel rather than spirit. i mean i think the mind can perceive things that your conscious cant, including ESP type shit. dreams may be an easy way to open the door of this perception! maybe

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Yeah I considered that too, but she got the vacuum out of her closet, which I'd be hard-pressed to hear. And I definitely couldn't hear what clothes she put on.

edit:

I could totally make a million bucks off this James Randi guy. All you'd need to do is pop out of your body and identify something you couldn't otherwise perceive?

Cause hell, I could do that, and I wouldn't call myself an "expert paranormalist" by any stretch.