Thread: A Guy In Spain Dreamed The Pope Would Be Named Francis A Month Ago

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Hmm - I guess if a person has a lot of dreams and occasionally one of them comes true, then it's kind of a useless skill. I mean, you'd never know which ones might come true and which ones are just random dreams. Kind of underwhelming to tell people "I have precog dreams and like 3% of the time they come true, I just don't know which ones it will be.. "

I don't exactly see family and friends flocking to somebody and asking them what's going to happen with a success rate like that. Or worse yet "This one time I dreamed something and it ended up coming true!!"

Ok, so what? that happens to everybody, Unless you wake up KNOWING that it's going to come true, and every time you wake up with that feeling it always does come true, then it doesn't do anybody any good.

There may be a way to use this advantageously one day by doing further studying, but that is irrelevant. The way you are explaining these dreams is like saying that regular or lucid dreams are pointless as well and don't do anybody any good. This is simply not true. Of course there may not be much benefits outside of the dream world for lucid dreams, regular dreams, or precognitive dreams. Dreams bring pleasure or fear, etc. Typically people really fear or find awe in any type of dream. I understand your point, but it seems like you are trying to make it sound like these types of dreams are much less pleasurable or fearful as any other dream. If anything they are more fascinating and bring more awe to people (lucid dreams still top them though ^_^).

Originally Posted by hurricane1124

The way you are explaining these dreams is like saying that regular or lucid dreams are pointless as well and don't do anybody any good.

Really? How so? Regular and lucid dreams don't require actually being able to predict things in waking life with accuracy in order to be effective. If all you're concerned with is being able to say "oh yeah, I dreamed this would happen once" after something happens then no problem - I've had dreams of things that eventually happened (but I didn't consider them anything but either coincidence or dreaming of things that are likely to happen or maybe the way I hope - or fear - they might happen and it ended up going that way by sheer chance).

What I Mean is - how many other precog dreams did this Spanish guy have, and did they all come true, or a significant percentage of them? If not then it's just one isolated incident that's more likely just random chance. It's like calling a coin flip and being right sometimes - it happens to everybody! The problem is - you don't know if you're going to be right or not until AFTER reality bears it out. Retroactive precognition - kind of an oxymoron, isnt it?

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Really? How so? Regular and lucid dreams don't require actually being able to predict things in waking life with accuracy in order to be effective. If all you're concerned with is being able to say "oh yeah, I dreamed this would happen once" after something happens then no problem - I've had dreams of things that eventually happened (but I didn't consider them anything but either coincidence or dreaming of things that are likely to happen or maybe the way I hope - or fear - they might happen and it ended up going that way by sheer chance).

What I Mean is - how many other precog dreams did this Spanish guy have, and did they all come true, or a significant percentage of them? If not then it's just one isolated incident that's more likely just random chance. It's like calling a coin flip and being right sometimes - it happens to everybody! The problem is - you don't know if you're going to be right or not until AFTER reality bears it out. Retroactive precognition - kind of an oxymoron, isnt it?

That wasn't the point of what I was saying. I was just citing the experience of the dreams. I'm aware of that and the coin example is true but that is referencing far better odds and wasn't relevant to what i was saying. Nonetheless I understand your point.

Originally Posted by hurricane1124

That wasn't the point of what I was saying... wasn't relevant to what i was saying.

As I asked in my last post, how so? Just repeating "that isn't relevant" doesn't explain. What value do precog dreams have unless they predict events more accurately than random chance?

Originally Posted by hurricane1124

I was just citing the experience of the dreams.

The experience of the dreams? Well, that sounds like exactly what I was talking about when I said :

If all you're concerned with is being able to say "oh yeah, I dreamed this would happen once" after something happens then no problem - I've had dreams of things that eventually happened..

.. Just your own personal satisfaction of being able to say "Hey, I dreamed this would happen!" - ie the experience of it. But you didn't dream that you KNEW it was going to happen, only dreamed of it happening, with nothing to differenciate it from an ordinary dream, so you would know "this one is precognitive".

That's the only value a precog dream would have unless they actually show themselves to be more effective in predicting events than random chance AND they mark themselves as being different from ordinary dreams so people know when to pay attention to them.

But even if all you care about is the experience. you still don't know which dreams will come true until after they do. In what way is it anything more than considering the probability of a future event, just as we all do in waking life frequently? Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong, and we don't know which until after the event occurs.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

As I asked in my last post, how so? Just repeating "that isn't relevant" doesn't explain. What value do precog dreams have unless they predict events more accurately than random chance?



The experience of the dreams? Well, that sounds like exactly what I was talking about when I said "If all you're concerned with is being able to say "oh yeah, I dreamed this would happen once" after something happens then no problem - I've had dreams of things that eventually happened". Just your own personal satisfaction of being able to say "Hey, I dreamed this would happen!" - ie the experience of it. But that's the only value a precog dream would have unless they actually show themselves to be more effective in predicting events than random chance.

But even if all you care about is the experience. you still don't know which dreams will come true until after they do. In what way can that be considered anything more than considering the probability of a future event, just as well all do in waking life frequently?

What is the value of anything? It is all about the personal experience when it comes to the dreams and the indirect effects that the dreams may be bringing afterwards. You asked "What value do precognitive dreams have unless they predict events more accurately than random chance"? I did answer that and then said that it was irrelevant to ask because then you would have to say that all dreams don't have a value. You may be just saying what value in the perspective of the deeper meaning and purpose of the intention of them, but it didn't appear that you were trying to cite to that two posts ago.

Originally Posted by hurricane1124

I did answer that and then said that it was irrelevant to ask because then you would have to say that all dreams don't have a value.

.. And I pointed out the fail of that response quite clearly. So it seems all you're really saying is "I like to believe in precognitive dreams even though there's no way to know if they actually exist or not".

Ok, that's fine! I already said it was, twice now.