Thread: Looking for people that are Advance Dream Controllers for simple experiment

I go to bed at roughly midnight GMT
Not sure how far apart the times are.
Perhaps some helpful member could enlighten me.

^ doesn't matter - you don't both need to be alseep at the same time for it to work. It seems to function through telepathy and it doesn't matter if one person is awake at the time - it can cause them to dream a similar dream when they do get to sleep.

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Originally Posted by TiredPhil

I have a picture on my PC, which can not be mistaken for anything else.

If seen by an Indian they would give the same name as an Australian.

The chances of it being mistaken for anything other than what it is, are very unlikely.

I am off to bed, and will meditate before sleeping, and think of nothing else.
During sleep, I will attempt to bring the picture with me into my dream.

Have a sleep yourself, and see if you can pick up on the picture.

This is open to anyone who dreams.

I will not reveal the image to anyone, unless reported correctly.

Cheers,
Phil

Phil Thank you

It is 11:22am Friday 8-March-2013 here in Adelaide, South Australia.

I .... will ... actually Phil, I need something to focus on, like a "number code" or a picture or something. Anything will do.

I will record any remembered dreams in my DJ here on DV. I will call the entries "1-Phil" "2-Phil" etc.

I have now started broadcasting the image at almost every opportunity.
I try to think of nothing else while meditating.
If I see the image during the day, I visualise, then send out a thought to members on here.
I hold the image in my mind before falling asleep on a night time.
I try to send the image to members during sleep.
Will keep doing this until members lose interest.

P.S. to debrajane
This thread was started by EricinLA, so maybe you should name the entries after him.

Cheers,
Phil

Phil

I recon that a hundred different (individual) participants could dream even 10 dreams each and every dream (all one thousand dreams) could reveal the picture on your computer screen.

Because

us humans have sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, balance. And a multitude of emotions and memories for "Our Dreaming Mind" to draw from, to interpret that image on your computer screen.

Here is my little corner of "Our DreamingMind's" attempt to "decode" what it picked up from your computer screen.

Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - debrajane - Dream Journals

I will go again and again till the "reveal".

I love, love, love love, this kind of simple dream game.


Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - debrajane - Dream Journals

Just a quick aside:

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

^ doesn't matter - you don't both need to be asleep at the same time for it to work. It seems to function through telepathy and it doesn't matter if one person is awake at the time - it can cause them to dream a similar dream when they do get to sleep.

Did I miss a memo, Darkmatters? I hadn't realized that dream-sharing and LD'ing had been established as the same thing!

All sarcasm aside: I just read your post about this on another thread, and it seems an intriguing idea, but one still open to debate or development...maybe you could start a new thread about dream-sharing being equal to telepathy?

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

For me, its not necessary to be asleep at the same time for this sort of thing, it doesn't work that way. The most likely time for me to get a vision of the object would have been the night before he posted the message.

We are trying to connect our dreams. That was the whole point of the experiment. The transfer of some sort of verifiable information was just proof beyond that we said we did it. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

Originally Posted by TiredPhil

I go to bed at roughly midnight GMT
Not sure how far apart the times are.
Perhaps some helpful member could enlighten me.

Phil,

I just looked it up. We are 8 hours apart depending on Day Light Savings Time. When it is 12 noon for me. It is 8pm for you. Also the Los Angeles area is about to spring ahead 1 hour this weekend for the Day Light Savings. Kind of makes it hard since I don't go to bed until 10pm and you are most likely awake already since it is 6am your time.

Originally Posted by EricinLA

We are trying to connect our dreams. That was the whole point of the experiment. The transfer of some sort of verifiable information was just proof beyond that we said we did it. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

In my dreams, the connection occurs in a way in which the idea of concurrent clock time isn't quite applicable. You might be able to share a dream with someone who is dreaming at the same time as you, but adding the concurrent time requirement just makes it harder. Plus I think it reflects a mistaken expectation of what such sharing is like, which makes it much harder. You have to move your mind to the right place for it to work well, and the "at the same time" thought isn't in that place, so to speak. 'At the same time' would be applicable if you were going to transfer information through electromagnetics or some other wall-clock-time-like medium, but the shared dreaming connection isn't like that. Similarly, you have to relax your lucid control of the dream, because if you're completely in control there's no way for the other person's mind, so to speak. But when you relax that control then you're also less in control of considerations like time, or exactly what is shared. I suggest relaxing everything except whatever the essential aim is, such as sharing information in the dream to prove to yourself that its possible. And even then it may be a lot easier if you try to share something meaningful to you, since a part of your mind that's necessary to the sharing might not care much about proving anything. When I try this with people I typically suggest they focus on a deep personal philosophical question that they want an answer to. Then we get mundane, objective information transferred in the dream also, but used as a metaphorical context for the deeper concern. You have to engage your subconscious in a way that its interested in. Based on my experience anyway. Obviously everybody is a bit different, but presumably these things will at least be similar for different people.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

In my dreams, the connection occurs in a way in which the idea of concurrent clock time isn't quite applicable. You might be able to share a dream with someone who is dreaming at the same time as you, but adding the concurrent time requirement just makes it harder. Plus I think it reflects a mistaken expectation of what such sharing is like, which makes it much harder. You have to move your mind to the right place for it to work well, and the "at the same time" thought isn't in that place, so to speak.

I'm confused on what you are saying about being able to connect to someone that is not dreaming at the same time as you. If what you are saying is being done. You can connect to anybody at anytime even if the person is alive in the future or has already died. I'm not trying to get into the standard telepathy either. I just want to connect directly with one other person and share a dream. I guess I'm just trying to get to another level because total LD & DC hasn't been a challenge in a long time. Have you heard of anyone being able to do what I'm talking about and not just saying they did it. I read so many amazing things people say here. I have to take everything with a grain of salt. But I know what I can do, so I think some of things I read are possible.

Sorry that i'm late, but i am a dream control expert, i usually like to make my dreams my way so i make it so, easily, and sometimes do damage if nothing is up to my standards lol. You can read my djs, when someone wants to send me a message, it has to be done sophisticated. I don't tolerate mind games very greatly.

I don't see much difference between shared dreaming and standard telepathy. The interaction is deeper, so to speak, than being awake or asleep, that stuff is just on the surface.

If you want to share a dream like two people standing in the same virtual reality room, which one of you projects the images in the dream? Doing that collaboratively and concurrently sounds pretty hard to me. If one person is projecting and the other person is 'watching', that seems to me to be like receiving impressions and accurately reprojecting the same thing. In which case for me the time element doesn't make much difference any more. Whether anyone is in control well enough to do that in that way I don't know.

I would guess that not everything you read on this site is true, since a lot of people aren't very honest, but I can't point to anything specifically that I don't think is true. I don't believe most of the 'dream plane' stuff - I think people are creating most of that without realizing how subjective it is. But I don't deny that people generally have the experiences that they say they have. Certainly many of the wild claims people make here are true, in my experience, even though its mixed in with assumptions and interpretations that are more doubtful.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I don't see much difference between shared dreaming and standard telepathy. The interaction is deeper, so to speak, than being awake or asleep, that stuff is just on the surface.

I know what you are talking about. But I only have that deeper control in my sleep state. It does help me stay very calm in my real life. But I think I can only achieve the connection in my sleeping/dreaming state. It would be considered Delta and/or Gamma brain waves out of the 5 known brain wave levels each person would need. I don't have that deep of control while i'm awake. To attain Gamma brain waves while awake would be really difficult for the best "Dream Controller"

click here for more info ---> Meet Your Brain Waves — Introducing Alpha, Beta, Theta, Delta, AndÂ*Gamma

The best time for me for that type of intuition is right after I wake up. I think the interaction is there all the time, and it influences our thoughts and experiences all day. its just hard to form something of it directly into a mental image except when the mind is relaxed like that.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Just a quick aside:



Did I miss a memo, Darkmatters? I hadn't realized that dream-sharing and LD'ing had been established as the same thing!

All sarcasm aside: I just read your post about this on another thread, and it seems an intriguing idea, but one still open to debate or development...maybe you could start a new thread about dream-sharing being equal to telepathy?

Lol well it would be ridiculous for me to start a thread claiming to understand something that I don't - all I know is what I've experienced and it seems to corroborate what shadowofwind and Hathor are saying. It also holds true to what I understand about the subconscious - that it's always there and always active, but the conscious mind is much 'louder' and drowns it out when we're awake, in the same way the sun makes the stars invisible in the daytime. Wow, I just realized this thought connects with my new avatar.. sun and stars out at the same time lol. But anyway, it seems to me that if we do receive telepathic thoughts from each other they would probably come in a form like dreams - a sort of interconnected complex of vague images and feelings and thoughts all tied together loosely. After all this is the language of the subconscious, right? It doesn't deal in concrete logical ideas but in vague intuitions and symbolic images. That's why we need to think about what our dreams mean when we wake up in order to understand them. The conscious and unconscious need a bit of translation to understand each other.

And if this is true (so far it's pretty much common knowledge) then why couldn't two minds connect regardless of if both people are asleep at the time? Your subconscious processes things that you take in consciously during the day - it processes your subtle thoughts and feelings as dreams in symbolic language. So if you're able to connect with somebody telepathically at any time, the thoughts/feelings/images etc would be saved in memory, just like day residue is for instance, and processed in dreams. So it's sort of like if you get an email telepathically and it remains there, waiting until you check your email (dream) - at which point your mind processes it and reviews the images/feelings/thoughts as a dream.

This would also explain why when people share dreams they aren't exactly the same but there are always certain elements shared in both dreams. For instance, maybe one dreams of grimy stinking alleys with homeless people and rain and the other person dreams of New York as it was 100 years ago - they could both be dreaming about New York but each in a way that's meaningful to them personally.

If all this is true then it would explain why people aren't able to connect in lucid dreams with rigid control and why they can't seem to send any logical information - only vague intuitions and feelings etc. I think in order to experience it at all you need to loosen up and give up control. Sharing isn't about control - its about feeling your way and allowing the other person their say as well. Artists of all kinds know this - creation isn't an act of pure will, it's an opening up to intuitions and subtle feelings that you can't feel in the normal waking state - you have to achieve a meditative stillness and calmness. Later of course the knocking out of a product based on your intuition requires will and work - but that's not the art part, that's the work part of artwork.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Just a quick aside:



Did I miss a memo, Darkmatters? I hadn't realized that dream-sharing and LD'ing had been established as the same thing!

All sarcasm aside: I just read your post about this on another thread, and it seems an intriguing idea, but one still open to debate or development...maybe you could start a new thread about dream-sharing being equal to telepathy?

Sageous,

This was discussed at length last year by Sivason and others.

But in any case, if there's a kind of dream sharing that you can do that requires to people to be dreaming lucidly at the same time, then have at it: that's more like what Eric in L.A. was looking for than what anyone else has been able to offer so far. Or maybe WakingNomad or someone could offer an alternative approach. All of us are just offering whatever information we have based on our own experience. And as far as I know, for all the people who have showed up for these discussions within the last year or so and tried to offer some kind of relevant dream sharing experience, being lucid at the same moment doesn't matter.

^ Yeah, I also noticed the same thing in a lot of the synchronicities in the IOSDP. I never took part in it myself (hell, I didn't believe in crap like dream sharing! That's just crazy talk! ) but I did read some of their threads now and then, and they realized early on that you don't need to be asleep at the same time. I don't personally think it's time travel or precognition or anything, I already explained my 'mental email' theory, in which it's stored in both people's minds for processing into dream form during sleep.

^^ Understood, Darkmatters, and for some bizarre reason your logic actually makes sense. Never mind.

That said, I have to agree with Shadowofwind in that I also think EricinLA was looking for a more direct exchange... I could be wrong about that, but why recruit expert LD controllers if they're really not needed?

Yeah, if the theory I've been babbling incoherently about is right, then it's a lot easier to exchange feelings etc in dreams rather than conscious thoughts like a number or whatever. You'd have to first try to somehow get that number into your subconscious awareness and associate it with some deeply felt subtle feeling. Then the other person is only going to pick up the feelings/vague intuitions or whatever, and I'm not sure how they could reconstruct something as concrete as a number from it. So the funny thing is - people who are trying to transer things to each other in lucid dreams might actually be transferring all kinds of things and having lots of dream synchrinicities but just not able to do what they're trying to force to happen.

It's sort of like if they've invented the telephone but were trying to invent something that would transmit flashes of light to use as morse code - they keep trying but can't get any light to come out the reciever, but meanwhile they can hear each other and think of that as just a junk side effect that's nothing but static.

Originally Posted by Sageous

I could be wrong about that, but why recruit expert LD controllers if they're really not needed?

I would presume that if people want to engage in these experiments that involve a good amount of awareness, having good control of your lucid dreams would be a practical basis. It wouldn't be reasonable to have someone who isn't good enough with dream control when lucid, and it reduces the chance with learning any attempts with Beyond Dreaming concepts.

Especially since with the limited knowledge and presumptive "evidence" with shared dreaming, etc., having people who have good control leads towards other favorable traits that are absent from normal dreamers. People with better LD control are usually used to willpower and just sublimating it through thought energy and manifesting whatever it is they want to be in the reality of their dreams. Along with the theory similar to having a e-mail that Darkmatters stated, having people who are proficient in willpower help in learning more about the power of presumptive ambitions. These people know the distinction of dreams and reality, and they know that dreams clearly have potential that simplicity with willpower actually creates results (within their spectrum of reality and maybe another person with the same mentality and beyond).

Most people who are still skeptical with elements of lucid dreaming (dream guides, etc.) and not having basic reasoning that it's from the confines of their minds, they complicate how you're really more suggestive or capable of accessing your sub-c or unconscious' suggestive thoughts and behaviors. It creates mental blocks, and not being able to reduce these mental blocks would make experiments like this pointless without someone who is in a similar mentality as OP.

And another important trait that I'm sure experienced LDrs are aware of is that with this level of control and awareness, I'm sure they've had the idea slip into their minds that they can always learn more about themselves and how they perceive reality. They stop being defeatist in what average joes do with something not researched as much like shared dreaming, and instead of going with people who conform to saying "It's impossible!" or "You're crazy!", they go with what they know, and they experiment.

Being able to experiment, filter out other people's insecurities with their reality being demoted if there's more incremental evidence of things not understood (astral projection, shared dreaming, etc), and knowing that there's always something to learn, this is why recruiting expert LD controllers would be practical. They have the potential, and they are more likely to find ways to go about increasing the probability of an event by redefining the principles behind it that attracts so many people to grow attached to it.

These people say "I may not have evidence or something persuading enough to invest in searching for evidence, but I'm getting there..." It's a progressive mentality to keep looking, to be able to balance their foundations and take risks in experimentation, and to always have healthy skepticism. People who state "Shared Dreaming is impossible," "Astral Projection is for the mentally insane," etc. when it's obvious there's not enough practical evidence to make them probable event are really just insecure.


Even if a person has a good amount of experience with lucid dreaming though, if they can't learn to not be emotionally attached to their experiences and assume it's the only right way, if they stop learning and never try to expand their horizon, 35 years, 40 years, even 50 years of lucid dreaming control times zero ambition to learn more and have open-mindedness is still zero. So it's really about people having good amount of control and the mentality to go on scavenger hunts. They keep moving forward instead of stopping and saying something is absurd, because they know making an absolute claim like that shows they're afraid of skewing their schemata of life.

And experimenting with people like this wastes time, because again, the mental blocks they have just makes things harder. The more people attempt to defy the defeatist mentality so many normal dreamers engage in (and I mean normal people as in those who just think dreaming is confined to their minds only), the more they find practical information, connect the dots, test it and experiment, and the less something will seem like "magic."

Just my opinion.

To EricinLA

I will be setting my alarm for 5.30am for Saturday 9th March
I will then go back to sleep, and try to send the image.
I will keep it going for as long as I can, which will be until alarm goes off again at 9am
This gives you, and anybody else plenty of time to tune in.
Best if you do not look for what I am sending, but rather, try to see/hear what comes into your dream.
Look for what you will, but you can not have too many tries.
You must be certain the dream was influenced by an outside force of some kind.
If you do have full control of your dream, it will help to conjour up an imaginry device to help you see.
Try looking into a crystal ball, or invent a machine that can communicate with others in dreams.

If I find I can not fly in a dream, I put on a jet pack.
To move objects, I use telekenesis. If this does not work, I use a gravity gun.
To meet someone, I go to their house, or phone them up on an imaginry phone. Very difficult to make people appear out of thin air.

Can you can see what I mean ?

If you have the slightest doubt that you can not see the image I am sending, then you will not be able to see it. No matter what.
But use a device in a dream world, and the task becomes much easier.
Why not phone me up on a mobile phone, and simply ask me what the image is ?
If you are a star trek fan, use a communicator.
Whatever works best for you.

Anybody else is welcome to join in this little experiment.
The more the merrier.
I will start a dreamviews meeting off in my dream, and tell/show anyone who visits, what the image/picture is.
I will be in a big red, and whit striped tent out in the countryside.
Off to bed now, and will attempt to keep this going all night.
Alarm now set.
Goodnight all, and see you in a few min's
Phil

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

I would presume that if people want to engage in these experiments that involve a good amount of awareness, having good control of your lucid dreams would be a practical basis. It wouldn't be reasonable to have someone who isn't good enough with dream control when lucid, and it reduces the chance with learning any attempts with Beyond Dreaming concepts.

This kind of comes back to the point I was trying to make....In my experience there's somewhat of a tradeoff between control and being able to share thoughts. I think that the people who are good at control but can't share dreams very well have a weak argument when they suggest that control is important to sharing, since it hasn't worked very well for them. But maybe you're a person who is good at both at the same time, so we'll see what happens.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

This kind of comes back to the point I was trying to make....In my experience there's somewhat of a tradeoff between control and being able to share thoughts. I think that the people who are good at control but can't share dreams very well have a weak argument when they suggest that control is important to sharing, since it hasn't worked very well for them. But maybe you're a person who is good at both at the same time, so we'll see what happens.

I sort of disagree with the first statement, and although I only had a few lucids, here's why I think having control doesn't mean you're necessarily trading off the ability to share your thoughts.

I know this is based from your personal experience, and I completely acknowledge this, but having good control of yourself, being aware of other aspects of your mind, being able to fine-tune things at will has to be, in my opinion, a catalyst in sharing your thoughts well. Which brings me back to those who can control their dreams usually have ideas slip into their mind of who they are as a whole, whether it's acknowledging their past, present, and possibly future selves. But I think where things seem like a tradeoff is that they believe they might lose control if they try to push things too far.

In this sense, it would just be the fear of tapping more into one's psyche, but not trying to share thoughts out to make trials and experiments of probable chances of shared dreaming events. I think when people want to share their thoughts out through dreams based on the presumptive rudiments behind it, there's a fear of the level of security.

I'm sure you're aware of what I'm about to state, but people with good control of their dreams only have a tradeoff if they worry too much about the security of their mind. Sharing thoughts with strangers through experiments makes the attempts that much difficult, which is why sub-forums like IOSDP try to implement groupings of people making bonds with each other. Getting to know someone a bit more increases the chance of seeing if the rudiments behind shared dreaming might have some weight with how lucid dreaming enables one to express thought energy into reality in their spectrum of awareness.

I don't have any evidence whatsoever other than anecdotal on shared dreaming, but I do know that if one wants to make the rudiments applicable to dreaming and telepathy, the first step in my opinion would be to have a consistent maintenance of yourself. If one doesn't know how they react to their surroundings, both dreams and reality, it's usually harder to try and share thoughts with someone else. And when one worries about private information being leakd, the mental block keeps growing and growing; and the main problem here is that people speculate that with great control means greater chance of revealing too much.

So in my opinion, this is one of few reasons people think it's a tradeoff. I think it's about perception and not taking yourself (at least the abilities of your dream self) so seriously. I noticed that having a close bond with someone (usually just good DreamViews friends I had in the past and still have now) increases the chance of them having what would be presumed "shared dreaming."

It's sort of knowing how to be empathetic towards the person you're attempting the shared dreaming, and not a lot of people can do this consistently because they have mental blocks of insecurities of themselves. They're afraid to open out more, and I feel this is a behavioral trend with people of good control, they get too protective of themselves.

This may not apply to all dreamers, but it is apparent to a concerning amount that do try. They underestimate their sub-conscious or unconscious and presume that if they attempt to share thoughts, they might risk having a person "hacking" or abusing their willingness to "access" or have a shared dream with them. Control is one thing, but being able to know your mind can keep certain things a secret and still have you attempt shared thoughts through experiments like this helps greatly.

People who want to do this don't know where to find a backup in case things go wrong. They don't have a Plan B because they feel their mind might not bring them back to their foundations. This is why researching things like Dream Guides or even Spirit Guides can give a person solace before they attempt to share thoughts with strangers or just a person they have a small bond with. Of course, not everyone believes in guides in that realm, even though they can just enjoy that possibility and still believe dream guides/spirit guides/etc. are possibly just higher aspects of themselves.

People who have backups (dream guides, seeing the bigger picture, or any concept that brings them back to healthy skepticism and progressive improvement) have a far better chance in trying to find ways to share thoughts. The only "tradeoff" is a person's insecurity to look at themselves first and being able to control what information comes out and what stays safe.

People can try all they want and say "I'll be sure to do my best in finding you," but they are not getting anywhere if they lack using empathy and critical thinking. I think trying to understand that other person's perspective is imperative, and to do that means understanding a good amount of yourself first. Many people aren't too sure of their abilities, they feel inferior, thinking sharing thoughts requires exaggerated power and idealism.

They never have a clear resolve of what they want to find, and when they go through a relapse, they most likely will give up. If people can make constant maintenance of their efforts and coping with future relapses with failed attempts, then we might get somewhere with sharing thoughts out without risking what we want to keep safe. People can share a few bits about themselves that aren't too personal, and they just use anticipation (which may produce more results if they synch with their sleeping periods) as a crutch towards having "shared dreams."

That is the conflict in these experiments, in my opinion, but it can slowly fade away when a person knows that aspects of themselves before they explored into the unknown are at their beck and call. This is when they can take risks and still have assurance there's a way back in case things get too hectic.

The Sun

Alternate version of Twinkle Twinkle little star - YouTube

is on you computer screen, Phil.

1 Phil (cintillating cinders) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views