Thread: Dreams Are In Our Head

What you are doing here is exactly what most of them "people" are doing. You are making the assumption that it is a fact that dreaming isn't in another reality, what is that based on? please inform me of how you know exactly whats going on?
I don't believe that dreaming is another reality but that doesn't give me the right to say it's impossible, only improbable. Everyone has their own beliefs and what seems ridiculous to you may be normal for another.

I think I made this post seem like I'm trying to tell people what to believe. I'm expressing my opinion, and I really don't think you need solid facts that backup what I'm saying. I just think its a bit silly that people believe in it.

I think it's silly that people believe in god, most conspiracy theories or time travel or destiny. However what I think doesn't matter to them, if you actually wan't to achieve anything in this thread maybe you could ask a question or actually make a few statements backing up what you are saying so people have something to discuss.

This thread is bad, and you should feel bad.



Just my opinion. Of course, I won't point out any example that helped me reach this conclusion because it should be pretty obvious to everyone that I'm right.

This guy reminds me of jakob LOL!

Originally Posted by hathor28

This guy reminds me of jakob LOL!

It is my opinion that this is a poor opinion that I do not agree with because I am right. QED

Originally Posted by hathor28

This guy reminds me of jakob LOL!

Well I think it's more that suck4life just doesn't understand the workings of the beyond dreaming sub-forum fully yet. While jakob was basically just trolling, mainly because he was so consistent at it.

Suck4life, hope you don't feel bad or anything by my reply, this part of DV can be quite harsh so I'm not trying to insult you

No ad hominems from me either, bro. Just stating opinions about opinions here on da Internet.

But dreams are another reality, even if they are in your head.

That's one possible view, anyway.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything like that. I read the beyond dreaming section sometimes and maybe there is some things I can believe on here. I think I worded this thread in a way that it looks like I'm trying to get people to stop believing in whatever they do. So no, I don't feel bad about myself. Many other people post threads about what they believe and that's what I attempted to do here. But again, it seems that my wording offended a few people. You can tell me I should feel bad and that this thread is bad and so on but I honestly don't listen to people like that. If you dont like this thread and you want it to "die" then just don't post. Let It slip down the pages and be done with. If you don't have anything useful to contribute to this post then please dont post. And thank you dutchraptor for at least doing that.

If you'd like to share in what you believe in on the topic, then feel free to. (Sorry for the double post, I'm a mobile user)

One more thing. I'm a person who really believes in MOST science. So I believe you can explain most things with science. I still believe in god even though I didn't used to. I dont know if this clears it up or makes me sound less like a troll ( I don't know who would believe that, I've been at these forums for a while and post sometimes. If I'm a new user with 1-10 posts you could consider it)

Okay so, let's start over.
How about you write a new intro stating to us why you believe that there is no alternate reality, give us your views and evidence and then atleast we have something to work with.

Originally Posted by Suck4Luck

I'm not trying to be rude or anything like that. I read the beyond dreaming section sometimes and maybe there is some things I can believe on here. I think I worded this thread in a way that it looks like I'm trying to get people to stop believing in whatever they do. So no, I don't feel bad about myself. Many other people post threads about what they believe and that's what I attempted to do here. But again, it seems that my wording offended a few people. You can tell me I should feel bad and that this thread is bad and so on but I honestly don't listen to people like that. If you dont like this thread and you want it to "die" then just don't post. Let It slip down the pages and be done with. If you don't have anything useful to contribute to this post then please dont post. And thank you dutchraptor for at least doing that.

Lol. I think you missed the point entirely.

Most of those other threads (the ones with any merit anyways) explain to some degree why they believe what they believe, be it an experience or some resource they came across. The best ones don't even state an opinion one way or the other, but present the evidence, draw some simple conclusions, and start a discussion.

In the end, beliefs are irrelevant. I could agree with you completely, but you wouldn't even know it because you never took the time to ask. Of course, that still wouldn't make either of us right.

You stated an opinion, then got all defensive when other people started posting opinions about things that might not have had anything to do with the opinion you presented in the first place. Which is hilarious, in and of itself, but sad when you remain ignorant of the issue at hand.

Want to prove me wrong? Cite some peer-reviewed papers supporting your claims.

After all, I assume, with such firm beliefs based in "science", you'll have already done this legwork. Gods forbid your science-grounded belief were based in presumption instead of real-world research.

If you don't have anything useful to contribute to this post then please dont post.

Follow your own advice, please.

Originally Posted by Suck4Luck

It really bugs me when I see people post topics about dreaming being inside an alternate would. Dreams are created by our brain, you aren't in some other reality. Maybe if dreaming was totally unstudied and we knew nothing, but that's just not the case. When people post these topics, I feel it's what they want to be true and not really logical in one sense. We shouldnt worry about why we are dreaming, because that honestly isn't important if you're just an everyday joe. Instead don't worry and just enjoy dreaming for what it is!

You seem to be confused about the concept of 'reality'. But that's ok, you're in the right place to start deconstructing your cognitive biases and indoctrinated belief system!

In all seriousness, what you're asserting has actually been a hot topic since Plato first put his noggin to good use! Our materialistic western ideology would lead us to believe that our waking lives are 'reality' while dreams are essentially unreal. There are issues with this but firstly let's look at our basic, laymen definition of reality: Most philosophers agree that reality constitutes some kind of consensus experience of an objective reality. But this idea has little mileage in our everyday experience of the world! Everyone experiences reality subjectively, your view of the world is a model constructed by your brain based on your sensory input (as opposed to dreams which are models of world not based on sensory input). We only have to look at those with synesthesia or some kind of personality disorder to see people whose model of reality differs very widely from any kind of 'consensus' or 'objective experience', but we all experience our own individually mediated reality. Dreams are reality as far as we experience them, using the same brain that we experience our everyday lives.

Ok, here is an opinion on the topic. Some dreams are entirely inside your head. Likely MOST dreams are entirely inside your head. Not all dreams are normal-dreams. Some dreams are mystical in nature, and to explain them becomes very complex. If you have not experienced many many types of dreams, you are unlikely to have much notion of how mystical dreams can get. I will not state 100%, as I am a scientist, but from my own experience, and the recurrent nature (100s of experiences) of the experience, that SOME dreams can not be defined as taking place inside the normal mind, and must be explained by some link to other realities and unexplainable physics.

Suck4Luck,

You're entitled to your opinion and like you've said if people are offended they can ignore....but also, if you are annoyed by this part of the forum then you can also ignore. I don't really see any point in your thread, there's nothing constructive there. You don't come across like a troll, but blurting out your brain fart without anything to back it up is really just trolling.

My opinion is that it hasn't been researched enough and that science and mysticism are getting closer together the further science progresses.

- We thought the earth was flat
- We thought we were the center of the universe
- We thought....<insert loads of examples here> that were later disproven.
- We think that consciouness is only experienced through the physical waking state

The reality is that our bodies and brains are just mechanical response units experiencing 'something' what that is and how it works we don't know yet.

I believe there is a lot more to life than what we experience from when we sleep to when we wake.....whether or not that is that our true nature is multi dimensionality at different vibrational rates, I don't know. But without exploring the possibility then we'll never know. This is where I don't think science spends enough time.

One thing that sits uncomfortable with me still and makes me still retain some skepticism is that nobody has been able to prove that the 'astral plane' or whatever you want to call it, exists. Experienced out of body projectors who have written about being able to bring back information that proves it's existence beyond reasonable doubt to themselves, and written about it, certainly tell of stories that would confirm my belief. Unfortunately to believe in something you've read in a book is akin to putting your 'faith' in any religion without exploring it properly. I believe that Robert Monroe, William Buhlman et al are reporting accurately on their experiences but until I've experienced it directly then I won't give myself over to the notion 100%.

Still there's no harm in pursuing it though and it's fun.

So feel free to express your opinion, but unless you can maybe put forward some opinions as why you feel that way then what's the point?

If you want to discuss it then there are plenty of people on here that would be willing to.

Cheers.

cool story bro

...man this thread reminds me of 4chan/b/
^^^^^And please do not cyber-crucify (read: ban) me for that. "It's just my opinion."

I too think that dreams are in your head, and I can explain why. They reflect the daytime. They reflect your emotions in daytime. Your fears and worries. How many times have you seen in your dreams what you've been thinking about? And why don't we dream of things unknown and of strangers, but instead we dream our familiar surroundings and people? Why don't we behave in dreams differently than usual, but we always behave exactly like ourselves, with the same personality quirks, reactions, thoughts? It's like you're still feeling and thinking in your sleep, and you're inside of that thinking and feeling place.

If there's more to it, it's something mystic, and I feel like ordinary dreams shouldn't be confused with that. So I do not object to dreams being more than dreams, I just want to separate those dreams that are imprints of our life and those that are more than that.

The most of lucidity movement is driven by such imprints. If you use dreams to fulfill wishes, that's what you're doing, you're being driven by imprints of wanting various things. Not saying it's not fun, but lucid dreams are ordinary dreams, even though they're lucid. You're still driven by your daytime urges, you're still you, the world around is still familiar and you react to it the same way.

Originally Posted by Suck4Luck

It really bugs me when I see people post topics about dreaming being inside an alternate would.

That's a desire some people have, to travel to an alternative reality. What can you do about it? Allow it to stop bugging you, because it's like being bugged by any normal desire. Like, you really want to be good at playing cello, and your friend says: man, it's really bugging me, drop the stupid cello and start caring more for drums...

Originally Posted by Intfere

Why don't we behave in dreams differently than usual, but we always behave exactly like ourselves, with the same personality quirks, reactions, thoughts?

I disagree. My dream self is not exactly the same as my real self. I have done things in my dreams that I wouldn't consider doing in real life, I might have probably gave it a thought but it's most probably going to stay as a thought. There are times when I am not "I" in my dream, I was dreaming myself as another person and I took that person's personality instead of my own.

I believe that dreams are in our head. However I believe too that our dreams might lead us to another pane when some mysterious energies occur.

A typical definition of dreams in daily use would be: It's your subconscious, memories and emotions, so basically what makes your personality, there is a difference between this and your essence though, it depends if you believe in it or not. And that is your consciousness, the life-force. When we dream our consciousness is in our subconscious, memories and emotions and those parts are indeed in the "head". Dreams can be much more than that though and dreaming in my opinion instead can be described as an act of moving your awareness.
During sleep we move it to our subconscious, memories and emotions, but can it be moved beyond that? I think it can.

How do one explain information beoynd previous knowledge for example? Robert Monroe knew exactly where his friend was doing and could name an exact time. Imagine that you right now could go beyond yourself, which basically means to be moving your consciousness away from your physical body, also called Out of body experience which is a confusing and misleading name because this theory describes that your really never are IN the body in the first place, you are just aware of a body. An OBE is like going from first person view to free look in a video game.
This sound totally crazy I understand, but what's even crazier is that it can be verified.

If this happens once, it just a cool story, what have you smoked bro kind of thing, but if it can be repeated it can no longer be percieved as a coincidence, so do the science yourself and see if you can prove it. The problem with this however is that it can only work as proof for you and the person you visit and retell info to is just having a cool coincidence experience. So it's a subjective thing which makes it very hard to prove objetively.

A valid collected data like this would be if I got your adress for example and you live in a country I never have been in before and you can accept that it's atleast plausible for you believe that I never have been in that house before, but then I "project", "obe", and see visit the house, and the next day I call you up and tell you the exact details of your house.

I am doing everything I can to learn to induce these experiences myself, the paradox is that it's need to be done passively and if you try to do it actively you will fail because then you are in the ego and in the emotions etc. and in that state it is impossible to be. You can read about my perspective on it in my Dream Journal.

Empirical evidence is always more valuable, but you still need to remain open minded but still skeptical.

Balance is important.

I am not trying to convince you to believe in astral and spiritual guides in a higher dimension, I am just trying to make people see that there is a rational view to have about Out of body experiences, which to some are "just" dreams as well.

An inductive way like assuming all swans are white, if we only knew about white swans is logical. And we can have how many theories about it as we want, but if we see a black swan we have empirical evidence that the first statement isn't true no matter how strong the theories are. Of course one can say that the one that saw a black swan lied or even faked it and painted the swan. This is why repetition is important, you should then be able to find more black swans.

The statement here is that dreams are just something already experienced and nothing new can come out of it since it's just dreams.
The emprical evidence of attaining information beyond previous knowledge can help us see that that is not the case.
Although with the problem of subjective experience as I described before, but don't try to prove it to the world, prove it to yourself!
And this process should be able to get repeated as well.

I hope that this doesn't makes you irritated, I used to not believe either but then I got some empirical evidence and that changed my view.
So now I at least got acceptable reasons and don't mind to be considered crazy

And don't worry I am not alone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akgCb85PG-A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZZHXtzuJ9c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwmZ1JohClc

Expanding awareness is a really beautiful thing

Namaste.

Mastermind, the problem here is that, while you are generally open and just stating your opinion you are still making and assumption that is completely unverified. You state that you must approach this un a passive way, unless I misunderstand, how exactly did you figure this?

I have described in my Dream Journal. But I'll try to make it short because I want to go to bed and make an attempt

Actively in your mind (before you do the attempt) by intention of course there is no way to escape the fact that I want the experience, but passively by not actively focusing on each step like 1. Relaxation 2. Hypnagogic Imagery 3. Vibrations. This was the way I tried to do it. Find exact instructions and steps of how to achieve each step and also what most techniques on this forum does. It can work but it is much easier if you do it passively, which means to in this case to meditate. Just be and don't hope or expect anything which is super difficult at first!

This way the steps automatically gets achieved. I am trying to fall asleep consciously, but when we sleep unconsciously we go through these steps automatically.

I realized that the key was a passive approach when I looked at how Monroe, Campbell and my natural OBE friend (A friend that didn't knew about OBEs or anything of the sort but just randomly got it when he amazingly enough come up with a meditation himself!). They described it but I got confused when they named all the steps we go through, so my misstake was to foucs on that.

I hope that answers the question

Good night!

Originally Posted by Intfere

I too think that dreams are in your head, and I can explain why. They reflect the daytime. They reflect your emotions in daytime. Your fears and worries. How many times have you seen in your dreams what you've been thinking about? And why don't we dream of things unknown and of strangers, but instead we dream our familiar surroundings and people? Why don't we behave in dreams differently than usual, but we always behave exactly like ourselves, with the same personality quirks, reactions, thoughts? It's like you're still feeling and thinking in your sleep, and you're inside of that thinking and feeling place.

I also disagree with this. Although most of my dreams involve familiar people and places, sometimes I am a completely different person, living a very different sort of life.

But I can't help being skeptical of dreams being anything other than creations of my brain.
I still like to experiment and play around with the idea that some dreams take place in alternate worlds.

Originally Posted by MasterMind

Empirical evidence is always more valuable, but you still need to remain open minded but still skeptical.

I guess that's where I am. I don't really believe it, but I'm still open to the possibility. Or maybe it's just that I don't believe in it, but I would like it to be true...

I haven't had any experiences to make me believe that it's not just your subconscious, but I'm open minded enough to at least consider the possibility of it being outside your mind. I wouldn't call anyone crazy for having a different opinion.