is it true,that visualizing some object in ones mind for 15-30minutes,even in day,will lead to OBE ?

[memtest81]

Is it true that if i will visualize some object in my mind for 15-30 minutes, even while not sleeping, durng normal day, not nap, will lead me into OBE ?

[dutchraptor]

Never heard of this before, I honestly doubt it unless you have the full intention of going into an OBE and you probably have to have some experience with meditation and visualization aswell.

[Sageous]

Not true. I can't even find a way to relate such an exercise to successful OBE's/LD's; it simply does not make sense ... unless you are actually creating a mental mandala (the visualized object) as a focus point for your OBE attempt, but that would only make it a small part of the overall effort, not an end in itself.

[♥Mark]

fucken no

[Empedocles]

lmao

[memtest81]

So, to achieve a projection through visualization, one must first be very good at concentrating on visual images. If you are not good at this, it will require much preliminary practice before you ever see your first projection. You will have to practice daily on holding an image uninterrupted in your mind's eye. It is only when you can hold an image in your mind's eye for an extended period of time - perhaps 15 to 30 minutes - that you will then be able to enter into this image. w_w_w.oniros.fr/A1417.pdf

[Iapetos]

Why all this negative comments. It might sound funny to say that by just visualizing in ones head it will lead to an obe. Although it's not far from the truth. I got some friends that can astral project in a blink and when they tried to share an experience with me and guide to me through the process on Skype, they basically told me to visualize myself in a different body in my own room. I was veeeeeery skeptic and not much happened. I saw some random white light flashing (hypnagogic I thought) and I was in a completely dark room. I got super shocked because I had just done my attempt for a few minutes. I opened my eyes and see my excited mentor on Skype typing - "I pulled you out! What did you see?". I said that I didn't saw anything except some bright light and it was very blurry. He then told me that I need to practice my perception. I was a little discouraged because I had practiced my perception in dreams for three years by then, so I didn't understand why this would be different. Although he let my friend test it as well, and he saw lots of images flash by and at one point he sees a building looking like the Eiffel Tower. Later on when they talked without my friend have said what he had seen, our mentor says that he showed him the Eiffel Tower. Since then I have believed in the existence of the astral, even if doubt slips in from time to time since I haven't really experienced it completely myself. But visualization isn't as wrong as one may think...

[memtest81]

Why all this negative comments. It might sound funny to say that by just visualizing in ones head it will lead to an obe. Although it's not far from the truth. I got some friends that can astral project in a blink and when they tried to share an experience with me and guide to me through the process on Skype, they basically told me to visualize myself in a different body in my own room. I was veeeeeery skeptic and not much happened. I saw some random white light flashing (hypnagogic I thought) and I was in a completely dark room. I got super shocked because I had just done my attempt for a few minutes. I opened my eyes and see my excited mentor on Skype typing - "I pulled you out! What did you see?". I said that I didn't saw anything except some bright light and it was very blurry. He then told me that I need to practice my perception. I was a little discouraged because I had practiced my perception in dreams for three years by then, so I didn't understand why this would be different. Although he let my friend test it as well, and he saw lots of images flash by and at one point he sees a building looking like the Eiffel Tower. Later on when they talked without my friend have said what he had seen, our mentor says that he showed him the Eiffel Tower. Since then I have believed in the existence of the astral, even if doubt slips in from time to time since I haven't really experienced it completely myself. But visualization isn't as wrong as one may think... do you have this message recorded, what exactly did he told you ? i just tried it now, i visualized myself in different body staying in room but nothing happened....

[Iapetos]

Ok it's not that simple.. I did that attempt on msn and Skype and unfortunately it doesn't save all messages and this happened some months ago.. Although I have about three friends that say they can astral project at will, but it's not as I thought it was. It's not that they visualize themselves getting up and they are suddenly in a super vivid new environment and start talk to spirits or what ever. It's more like they start the dreaming/ astral projection process themselves by visualizing then they deepen the state by getting more and more involved in the dream/ astral place. I am currently being taught by a girl who also say she does it this way and she said that every daydream is astral projection it cannot be proved to you until you receive information you didn't previously knew of course, but that this is the case. So think of your daydream as an already started dream, it's just not vivid yet... Some people are aware of both their physical and non-physical body while doing this (Like I was when I was guided through Skype.) so don't discourage any information you might get while having dual awareness. On the Skype attempt he told me to think of a new body a good idea is to exaggerate and make your arms 2 times longer than usual or something like that. He once projected as a bear and a friend of his projected as a lion. I didn't take it seriously by then so I said OK "Pikachu form I choose you"... and I imagined my little yellow hands lol. Then he told me to visualize anything I want but he recommended my room because it might be easier to visualize. Then I visualized my tiny Pikachu hands and I was standing on my bed in my room, and there I saw this bright light and blurry vision of something I couldn't distinguish. He wrote to me on Skype and I opened my physical eyes. Think of it more like a meditation an easy meditation = D Instead of NOT focusing on your thoughts you get entertained by them. And then instead of focusing on the goal of succeeding making it vivid and so on, just "pretend" that it's already a dream and remember how you would stabilize, deepen and maintain that dream if it was a normal dream. Also if you find yourself falling asleep to easily choose a different sleeping posture. I have not succeeded fully with this method myself. But I am going to try it for the first time tonight, if I learn something from it I'll let you know. = )

[The Cusp]

Is it true that if i will visualize some object in my mind for 15-30 minutes, even while not sleeping, durng normal day, not nap, will lead me into OBE ? First understand what you are doing is meditation. Focusing on any one thing for an extended period of time is meditation. be it chakras, a candle, your breathing, a mantra, or a visualized object. Practicing this will give you both more lucids and longer lucids. Meditation before bed helps you stay aware during the HI stage and enter a WILD. Sometime we skip the HI stage and enter directly into dreaming. When this happens, you could think you were having an OBE. So yes, visualizing an object for 15-30 minutes a day should lead to an eventual OBE.

[Sageous]

I think you guys might be stretching the OP's premise a bit. All the negativity emerged, I think, because Memtest81 asked if an OBE can be caused by doing nothing more than focusing on an object for 30 minutes. There was no mention of the expectation, intention, and above all awareness that must also accompany a successful OBE (or LD, for that matter). To say that just looking at a thing for a few minutes is enough to initiate a psychic event is patently absurd. Also, The Cusp, I think that looking at an object without self-awareness, contemplation, or any kind of deeper focus is not meditation. It is just, well, looking at an object, and it will not lead to an OBE ... not without proper mental prep. I think you may be doing Memtest81 a disservice by supporting his question with affirmatives that have a whole lot more work attached to them than simply looking at an object for 30 minutes. Memtest81: if you do start staring at something regularly, I suggest you think about having an OBE at the same time, and build up some real expectation during your sessions ... that way you might at least accidentally have one.

[mcwillis]

YES is the answer you are looking for. Below is the 2nd chapter from Claude de Contrecoeur's book, 'Conscious Dreaming and Controlled Hallucinations' P.S. No MODS need worry about copyright infringement here as this book is open-source info How to achieve conscious dreams In order to become proficient in conscious dreaming you need to exercise at least one hour per night, very, very regularly. Regularity is of prime importance in order to be able to voluntarily penetrate your endogenous world or endoreality. Going at will into your endoreality is one of the most rewarding experience you can have in your life, as you enter in the reality which is completely yours and where nobody, no Inquisitor can follow you to prevent you from just enjoying yourself. When you can achieve this, the exogenous reality or exoreality becomes less "real", less stressful, less boring, as you can, now, willingly consider exoreality as dream-like, even if it is not a dream! But being able to consider exoreality as oneiric-like, oneiric-mimetic, gives you much more freedom and self-confidence as you have now new values, new ways of seeing important things, like, for instance, the death of your loved ones or your own death or, generally speaking, people and objects situated in exoreality. So here are the exercises you should do regularly to learn to consciously penetrate your endoreality: 1 - Before going to sleep, sit or lie in your bed for at least 30 minutes. 2 - In total darkness, just focus your attention on darkness and try to visualise simple images, like the image of a triangle, a square, a leaf, or anything you like. For instance, focussing your visual attention on sexual images will ameliorate your concentration! If you are a man you can focus your attention on images of a breast, of buttocks, of legs, etc. If you are a woman, you can focus your attention on a part of man's anatomy which triggers your sexual desires. The purpose of this exercise is to teach you how to specifically activate some of your memory zones in order to achieve the generation of controlled hallucinations. This is a very difficult exercise but it will train your consciousness to control itself. Focussing your attention is extremely important in the discovery of your memory and consciousness. It should be accompanied by breathing regulation: you need to breathe slowly and regularly, as if you were sleeping. Apparently controlled breathing triggers hallucinations, as experienced by meditating monks. In the beginning, if you focus your attention on, say, a triangle, you will observe the appearance of a faint triangular shape in the darkness and you will discover that this triangle will have a strong tendency to move, rotate, or simply disappear to be replaced by another faint image. Such faint images are called disattenuated images. A clear and controlled hallucinated image is called a completely disattenuated image, while faint images are called partially disattenuated images. We will explain this later. A normal visual thought is called an attenuated image. To see a memorised image as clearly as a real image means that you activate the metabolism of a memory zone where this image is stored. Selective metabolic activation of memory zones gives you a lot of power in your dreams and, also, surprisingly, in the exoreality where we all live. 3 - While focussing your attention on informational objects (a stored image of an object perceived in exoreality) try your best to forget the boundaries of your body. 4 - Try not to move at all and breathe deeply and regularly, like someone who is sleeping. 5 - When 30 minutes or more have elapsed, just go to sleep - but you still have to wake up in the early morning! 6 - Wake up early in the morning, between 4 or 5, and just repeat the whole exercise. 7 - When you next wake up write, as fast as possible, everything you can remember of your dreams. Slowly, slowly, you will discover that you remember more and more dreams in increasing detail. 8 - During the day, when you have time, just focus your attention on complex objects such as flowers, the ripples of water in a river, the shape of trees, leaves, examine carefully the content of books, etc. This teaches you the same thing as before: how better to focus your consciousness on reality. While doing these focusing exercises you will discover a lot of things like, for instance, the appearance of reiterative rotating images which is an invariant phenomenon preceding the emergence of complex disattenuations. Reiterative images are, probably, a prerequisite for synthesis of complex 3-D images. My intuition is that, in some ways, reiterative images mutually interact to form complex images. Reiterative images could be explained, I think, with a concept called MHV and MHV metabolic activation. Such images can also easily be seen with serotoninergic hallucinogens and it seems that an artist such as Escher just drew such reiterative hallucinations... So it is my opinion that Escher had sub-hallucinations but that he did not mention it, for obvious reasons! Talking about hallucinations nowadays is somewhat reminiscent of talking about the Devil not so long ago... Hallucinations are, still, in the domain of demonology in our "modern" societies, one of the last taboos to eradicate. Before reiterations appear you will notice that the darkness on which you are focussing becomes first 3-dimensional, then starts to "boil". By "boiling" I mean that you start to observe sub-hallucinations, constantly appearing and disappearing by MHV transformations. These sub-hallucinations are reminiscent of the surface of boiling water! Not only do these hallucinatory forms constantly change but they are very much imbriqué, intertwined. The same step can be noticed by conventional serotoninergic hallucinogens like psilocine which is, for me, the reference serotoninergic hallucinogen. "Boiling" informational objects and reiterations are the sign of only slight metabolic activation. The same phenomena can be observed at the end of a dream period: if you wake up immediately from dreaming you can still observe (for up to 6 minutes or so) boiling and reiterative informational objects in slow rotation (often from right to left in my case). I call this phenomenon the "disattenuation closure" (fermeture de la désatteacutenuation). After some weeks or months of such training you will have your first conscious dream, in the second phase of your exercise, that is, in the early morning. You will remember it as an extraordinary experience as you will discover that reality is only made of perceptions. Reality for all of us is what we consciously perceive. It does not matter where the incoming information flows from: from exoreality or endoreality. Evolution has put a mechanism which erases the consciousness of our dreams in our central nervous system (CNS). If the mechanism did not exist, all of us would have chosen to live in our respective endorealities and our species would just be extinct! Just see how people are running into exceedingly primitive computer-generated virtual realities. Imagine what would happen if all people could go, at will, into the ultimate virtual reality of their own mind!!! The mercantilistic society which now prevails would just become extinct as, in our endoreality, we can achieve everything we want at no cost at all. The only cost is learning. In such a future, life would be more tranquil as people would obviously cease to compete and desperately run after "exoreal" objects in order to run, instead, after their own informational objects... When you have access to the informational objects stored into your memory you no longer need money and power to realise your desires. It is far easier to learn how to gratify yourself with informational objects than working like mad to become a millionaire who will have less than you because he can only possess exoreal objects! A proficient conscious dreamer is in a world which is constantly extraordinary. This quality of endoreality is called extraordinarity (extraordinaireté, a quality of endoreality as opposed to non-extraordinarity, which is a quality of exoreality). Moreover, this world is serene, irenic, as it is your own created world. Nobody can run after you in the realm of your endoreality except your fears, materialising in nightmarish forms, as long as you are not aware that they are the product of your stored anxieties.

[Sageous]

^^ Yes is certainly the answer the OP is looking for, Mcwillis, but your post only verifies that achieving an OBE is a far more complex operation than visualizing some object for 30 minutes. After all, is an eight-step process that includes fairly involved attention, memory, visualization, and contemplative processes really equal to visualizing some object for 30 minutes? I don't think so. Not to disparage de Contrecoeur's process, of course, because it is very well thought out and worth attempting (or, better yet, mastering); thanks for sharing!

[memtest81]

YES is the answer you are looking for. Below is the 2nd chapter from Claude de Contrecoeur's book, 'Conscious Dreaming and Controlled Hallucinations' P.S. No MODS need worry about copyright infringement here as this book is open-source info How to achieve conscious dreams In order to become proficient in conscious dreaming you need to exercise at least one hour per night, very, very regularly. Regularity is of prime importance in order to be able to voluntarily penetrate your endogenous world or endoreality. Going at will into your endoreality is one of the most rewarding experience you can have in your life, as you enter in the reality which is completely yours and where nobody, no Inquisitor can follow you to prevent you from just enjoying yourself. When you can achieve this, the exogenous reality or exoreality becomes less "real", less stressful, less boring, as you can, now, willingly consider exoreality as dream-like, even if it is not a dream! But being able to consider exoreality as oneiric-like, oneiric-mimetic, gives you much more freedom and self-confidence as you have now new values, new ways of seeing important things, like, for instance, the death of your loved ones or your own death or, generally speaking, people and objects situated in exoreality. So here are the exercises you should do regularly to learn to consciously penetrate your endoreality: 1 - Before going to sleep, sit or lie in your bed for at least 30 minutes. 2 - In total darkness, just focus your attention on darkness and try to visualise simple images, like the image of a triangle, a square, a leaf, or anything you like. For instance, focussing your visual attention on sexual images will ameliorate your concentration! If you are a man you can focus your attention on images of a breast, of buttocks, of legs, etc. If you are a woman, you can focus your attention on a part of man's anatomy which triggers your sexual desires. The purpose of this exercise is to teach you how to specifically activate some of your memory zones in order to achieve the generation of controlled hallucinations. This is a very difficult exercise but it will train your consciousness to control itself. Focussing your attention is extremely important in the discovery of your memory and consciousness. It should be accompanied by breathing regulation: you need to breathe slowly and regularly, as if you were sleeping. Apparently controlled breathing triggers hallucinations, as experienced by meditating monks. In the beginning, if you focus your attention on, say, a triangle, you will observe the appearance of a faint triangular shape in the darkness and you will discover that this triangle will have a strong tendency to move, rotate, or simply disappear to be replaced by another faint image. Such faint images are called disattenuated images. A clear and controlled hallucinated image is called a completely disattenuated image, while faint images are called partially disattenuated images. We will explain this later. A normal visual thought is called an attenuated image. To see a memorised image as clearly as a real image means that you activate the metabolism of a memory zone where this image is stored. Selective metabolic activation of memory zones gives you a lot of power in your dreams and, also, surprisingly, in the exoreality where we all live. 3 - While focussing your attention on informational objects (a stored image of an object perceived in exoreality) try your best to forget the boundaries of your body. 4 - Try not to move at all and breathe deeply and regularly, like someone who is sleeping. 5 - When 30 minutes or more have elapsed, just go to sleep - but you still have to wake up in the early morning! 6 - Wake up early in the morning, between 4 or 5, and just repeat the whole exercise. 7 - When you next wake up write, as fast as possible, everything you can remember of your dreams. Slowly, slowly, you will discover that you remember more and more dreams in increasing detail. 8 - During the day, when you have time, just focus your attention on complex objects such as flowers, the ripples of water in a river, the shape of trees, leaves, examine carefully the content of books, etc. This teaches you the same thing as before: how better to focus your consciousness on reality. While doing these focusing exercises you will discover a lot of things like, for instance, the appearance of reiterative rotating images which is an invariant phenomenon preceding the emergence of complex disattenuations. Reiterative images are, probably, a prerequisite for synthesis of complex 3-D images. My intuition is that, in some ways, reiterative images mutually interact to form complex images. Reiterative images could be explained, I think, with a concept called MHV and MHV metabolic activation. Such images can also easily be seen with serotoninergic hallucinogens and it seems that an artist such as Escher just drew such reiterative hallucinations... So it is my opinion that Escher had sub-hallucinations but that he did not mention it, for obvious reasons! Talking about hallucinations nowadays is somewhat reminiscent of talking about the Devil not so long ago... Hallucinations are, still, in the domain of demonology in our "modern" societies, one of the last taboos to eradicate. Before reiterations appear you will notice that the darkness on which you are focussing becomes first 3-dimensional, then starts to "boil". By "boiling" I mean that you start to observe sub-hallucinations, constantly appearing and disappearing by MHV transformations. These sub-hallucinations are reminiscent of the surface of boiling water! Not only do these hallucinatory forms constantly change but they are very much imbriqué, intertwined. The same step can be noticed by conventional serotoninergic hallucinogens like psilocine which is, for me, the reference serotoninergic hallucinogen. "Boiling" informational objects and reiterations are the sign of only slight metabolic activation. The same phenomena can be observed at the end of a dream period: if you wake up immediately from dreaming you can still observe (for up to 6 minutes or so) boiling and reiterative informational objects in slow rotation (often from right to left in my case). I call this phenomenon the "disattenuation closure" (fermeture de la désatteacutenuation). After some weeks or months of such training you will have your first conscious dream, in the second phase of your exercise, that is, in the early morning. You will remember it as an extraordinary experience as you will discover that reality is only made of perceptions. Reality for all of us is what we consciously perceive. It does not matter where the incoming information flows from: from exoreality or endoreality. Evolution has put a mechanism which erases the consciousness of our dreams in our central nervous system (CNS). If the mechanism did not exist, all of us would have chosen to live in our respective endorealities and our species would just be extinct! Just see how people are running into exceedingly primitive computer-generated virtual realities. Imagine what would happen if all people could go, at will, into the ultimate virtual reality of their own mind!!! The mercantilistic society which now prevails would just become extinct as, in our endoreality, we can achieve everything we want at no cost at all. The only cost is learning. In such a future, life would be more tranquil as people would obviously cease to compete and desperately run after "exoreal" objects in order to run, instead, after their own informational objects... When you have access to the informational objects stored into your memory you no longer need money and power to realise your desires. It is far easier to learn how to gratify yourself with informational objects than working like mad to become a millionaire who will have less than you because he can only possess exoreal objects! A proficient conscious dreamer is in a world which is constantly extraordinary. This quality of endoreality is called extraordinarity (extraordinaireté, a quality of endoreality as opposed to non-extraordinarity, which is a quality of exoreality). Moreover, this world is serene, irenic, as it is your own created world. Nobody can run after you in the realm of your endoreality except your fears, materialising in nightmarish forms, as long as you are not aware that they are the product of your stored anxieties. ok, thanks, this is something we already have here, by SYTHIX, i mentioned about it here dreamviews.com/f36/how-learn-do-vivid-visualizations-so-vivid-will-confuse-real-world-physical-things-135046/ in post #8 dreamviews.com/f12/inducing-trance-wild-part-2-a-29491/ sadly this instructions are very very hard, and very long way to do. sitting for one hour in completely dark room ? i dont have access to room with no lights. my bathroom has windows..... anyway SYTHIX is no longer here, he can not help, he does not replies.... but if someone could master this process he could create whole new world in real life, so obe or ld or sleeping would not be needed for that. what i was asking was if only imagining in mind, just as you imagine now: red apple, and holding it for 30 minutes would lead me to ap ?

[Sageous]

what i was asking was if only imagining in mind, just as you imagine now: red apple, and holding it for 30 minutes would lead me to ap ? Sadly, I think pretty much all of the responders have clearly answered your question, and you yourself confirmed it with your last post: No, you cannot. LD'ing, OBE, and AP need a bit more work and mental input than would result from visualizing an object for half an hour. Some pretty bright people offered you answers here, and some even tried to agree but then had to outline, correctly, the lengthy steps necessary to achieve your goal. Listen to them; don't keep waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear. Of course if you choose not to listen, you can still prove us all wrong: try visualizing that apple and see where it takes you...

[mcwillis]

^^ Yes is certainly the answer the OP is looking for, Mcwillis, but your post only verifies that achieving an OBE is a far more complex operation than visualizing some object for 30 minutes. After all, is an eight-step process that includes fairly involved attention, memory, visualization, and contemplative processes really equal to visualizing some object for 30 minutes? I don't think so. On the contrary, if we consolidate Steps 1 to 8 we have the following process. 1 - At night visualise a simple object for half an hour, breathing slowly and deeply whilst keeping your body still. Go to sleep. 2 - On awakening in the morning repeat the process for half an hour. After weeks or months of practice the visualised object will begin to take on a fleeting life of its own and become seemingly real. With continued practice it will cease to be a fleeting 'hallucination', but become a stable 'hallucination' which will lead to either a WILD or a spontaneous OBE. I personally feel the dream diary and taking notice of objects throughout the day is unnecessary for this process. Thanks for sharing! This is why I love DreamViews Sadly, I think pretty much all of the responders have clearly answered your question, and you yourself confirmed it with your last post: No, you cannot. LD'ing, OBE, and AP need a bit more work and mental input than would result from visualizing an object for half an hour. Some pretty bright people offered you answers here, and some even tried to agree but then had to outline, correctly, the lengthy steps necessary to achieve your goal. Listen to them; don't keep waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear. Of course if you choose not to listen, you can still prove us all wrong: try visualizing that apple and see where it takes you...