Faith is being tested..

[JonRymer]

My faith has been tested today. I was reading on astral travel online today and someone mentioned that astral travels might be just another form of dreaming and your not actually traveling anywhere. This kind of shook my belief that I DID in fact walk down my street in my astral body. Somebody plz tell me they have proof they really traveled. This is very important to me. Has anyone conducted experiments such as: having a friend write a number or shape down on paper in his room (maybe even states away) and you successfully guessed the thing he wrote down? Thanks everyone!

[Mancon]

Moved to Beyond Dreaming

[BobbyLance]

Hi there my friend. While I still don't know if Astral Travel is true or not, why not go to the DV chatroom to ask if some folks there experienced Astral Travel? Just click the link near the very top-right corner of DV or just click this: http://webchat.dreamviews.com:9090/# . Hope this helps

[DoctorEams]

I was going to write how Astral Projections are unfalsifiable due to their completely subjective nature. But the experiment you proposed does sound interesting, I'd like to see it attempted! Even if you can't get a 100% conclusive result, as long as you get statistically significant results I'd be pretty blown away.

[Original Poster]

Why is it so important for astral projection to definitely be real for you to utilize its benefits? There are ways to confirm it yourself, go find something you've never seen before and see if it looks the same when awake.

[dreamerJon23]

astral travel is all about getting to the higher planes, leave earth and get into the heavens. then you'll know it's real.

[Naiya]

The way I see it, regardless if dreams or even obes are objectively real, what happens is real to you because at the time you experience it, it can feel the same as waking reality. Something doesn't need to be "real" to give you meaning.

[roswell]

I've had experiences in dreams that have changed my life. If that isn't real, what is? That's why I prefer the term IWL to the term IRL.

[JonRymer]

yea but it would be 100x cooler if it is, u kno? i really trust that it IS reality, i just wanted to kno if anyone here has conducted experiment of there own. your story was helpful(: thx

[Original Poster]

yea but it would be 100x cooler if it is, u kno? i really trust that it IS reality, i just wanted to kno if anyone here has conducted experiment of there own. your story was helpful(: thx Why is it so important that it is? If you can find value in it, that's all the reality you need. I for one think it's real, but it doesn't HAVE to be real. But believing it is real has positively effected my decision making because my astral travels have taught me so much about the way the universe works.

[dreamcatcher81]

Astral projection is one of those things you have to experience you self to know that it's real in some cases more real then waking life. :-D.

[JonRymer]

for me personaly its important(: but i get where ur coming from

[Original Poster]

Well the thing is... you still may have just been dreaming. Just because astral travel is real does't mean people don't dream that they astral traveled.

[Vendetta]

I've read an expiriment when someone tried the paper thing and it did not work. So astral travel isnt in real time. I am guessing it isnt real but as Original Poster said, there is still many many benefits you can gain from it.

[hermine_hesse]

I've read an expiriment when someone tried the paper thing and it did not work. So astral travel isnt in real time. I am guessing it isnt real but as Original Poster said, there is still many many benefits you can gain from it. So, one person's failed experiment means it doesn't happen in real time? I've also read of many people who have gained verifiable information through astral travel. My view is that it is different than dreaming, but you are not actually leaving your body. Your mind interprets it this way to be able to integrate the experience in an understandable way. But, who know, I've never experienced it myself. JonRymer, For what its worth, my aunt can astral travel and claims to have done experiments of the sort you are talking about which worked. I agree with OP, however. I don't see how someone else verifying their AP makes a difference to you. If AP is "real" (whatever that means), you could still have dreamed it, so if you're concerned about the reality of your experience, you should experiment and verify it yourself.

[Empedocles]

I haven't seen any evidence to believe that the majority of AP cases aren't anything other than lucid dreams. However, I'm not ruling out the existence of AP. I just don't think it is that common. Take a look at this ridiculous thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/f11/person...eaming-115345/ I say ridiculous because the OP lists thirty "similarities" between Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection, yet denies that they are one and the same thing.

[Chimpertainment]

I would echo the sentiment of some others whom have already posted. This kind of experience can only be real through experience. Even if it was proven, all you are getting is outside approval. Decide for yourself what is real; depending on someone else's story will only deepen illusion.

[shadowofwind]

In previous discussion on this topics, there seemed to be general agreement that astral projection is a form of lucid dream. That doesn't mean that there isn't any sense in which its 'real' though. Its possible to get objectively paranormal results in lucid dreams also. From my own experiments, astral travel is definitely 'imagined'. But I'm doing much the same thing with my imagination that I do during a shared or premonitory dream experience, the subject of my attention is just a bit different. Even while you are awake, your thoughts seem to be 'in' your head in large part because your head is between your ears, and the way you map sounds puts them there just like when wearing stereo headphones. The fact that your brain is also in your head is largely incidental to the experience. For myself, if I think about speaking a thought, that moves its experienced 'location' far enough towards my tongue and throat that its out of my skull cavity. I'm aware that I'm just manipulating a mental map. But the manipulation of that mental map has real consequences. It is how, for instance, that I move my body. And it is how I move my sense of identity to experience other people's thoughts and emotions. Its possible to get objectively verifiable information that way that doesn't come through the body's senses. So its just imagined, but its more than that also. The difference between this and astral projection, as I experience it, is the 'astral body' is more the tactile aspect of my mental map of where I am. Its like a lucid dream in that it doesn't incorporate current sensate information about my surroundings. It differs from other lucid dreams in that I'm projecting my sense of location in relation to a spatial map of my immediate surroundings, rather than in relation to some other fictional place. But it is all similar, and I've created experiences which are hybrids of both, for instance where I have a visual standpoint outside of my body but my tactile experience stays in my body. In any case, once you recognize that everything you experience is an internally generated cartoon which may or may not correspond very accurately to our collective surroundings, and once you demonstrate to yourself that you can contact other things with your mind besides your nervous system, then the question of whether or not astral projection is real or not sort of goes away. Of course, the question of how all of this works still remains mostly unsolved.