Thread: Can a DMT trip be controlled?

Trying to control a powerful substance-induced experience is like trying to use the lightning from a hurricane to power your computer... with your hands. It will turn out terribly for everyone involved.

Terence McKenna is a veteran DMT tripper. He may have the answers you seek if you google him.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Terence McKenna is a veteran DMT tripper. He may have the answers you seek if you google him.

Well I looked into some of his reports, and found an interview where he states how he was skeptical of lucid dreaming, but he hoped it was real. He said he's had them before but didn't have techniques for inducing them. This was in the early 90's, probably before much information was available about the subject. So I don't think he has any reports about if control in a DMT trip is similar to LD control or if control is even possible, but I'll keep looking around.

I did find a website that has a compilation of DMT experiences, so I'm going to sift through those to see if I can find any indication of control over the trip. But so far from what I've found no one reports any relation to DMT being a dream state where they could be lucid and have control. I don't believe any of these people were lucid dreamers so it doesn't really help much.

I just hope that I can find someone who is experienced with both Lucid Dreaming and DMT to confirm whether or not they could have any control what-so-ever.

Originally Posted by telethiese

Trying to control a powerful substance-induced experience is like trying to use the lightning from a hurricane to power your computer... with your hands. It will turn out terribly for everyone involved.

This. Just because a drug INDUCES it, does not mean it is fake or just in your mind. I believe substances raise or lower your consciousness or your frequency, so what you experience in reality or in a drug experience, is solely based on how high or low your frequency is. Basically, how tuned you are with the universe, is how much you can experience the universe. Not sure if you have heard of this truth, but just hang in there.

Trying to control what you experience is just about impossible. How you interpret what you experience is very possible. And yes, I've done DMT several times, and just about every other hallucinogen and designer drug multiple times (a ton). Trying to control a trip/experience, especially a DMT trip, would be like trying to turn the Earth's rotation backwards. You are not experiencing a brain made trip, you are experiencing the Universe like you never have before. So how in the world could you expect yourself to control the Universe?

By the way, you can experience basically everything you can on Psychedelics... with meditation. Like I said.. it's all about FREQUENCY. How tuned you are to the Universe, and what you can experience. You can higher your frequency by meditation, and a bunch of other techniques and 'secrets'. I actually know a couple for spontaneously activating the third eye.. which can actually blow away a trip in every way (as in it's better). I won't share those techniques on a public forum though, you can actually damage your Pineal Gland if it is unused or not ready to be fully activated. PM though if you think you're ready.

Also just to clarify, you CAN control an Astral Projection, and an Out Of Body Experience (to some extent), but not a trip. You can move around in the DMT realm (a higher reality), but you certainly can't control it. The only way you can sort of 'control' it, is to think negative or positive thoughts. The more positive thoughts you emit or think, the higher your energy vibration is, and the higher up you will go into this reality. The same goes for negative thoughts (energy), you think negative, and your vibration will drop, sending you lower and lower into the astral reality.

Hope that helped.. maybe someone learned a something or to! Have fun and be safe.

Oh and by the way... smoking DMT or doing any sort of Psychedelic forcefully opens the third eye as well, which can cause damage or stunt the growth of the Pineal Gland if unused. Try meditating or thinking profound thoughts before the trip. Most Psychedelics gently open the third eye on the come up.. but not DMT.

Hm interesting, well I guess I had hoped too much. Just from what I've looked into about DMT and from my very brief experience with it, it seemed like there were promising similarities between dreaming and DMT that may have shown that if DMT actually is made in our brain, it may play a role in dreaming. I had hoped it could be kind of confirmed if a DMT trip was controllable in the way a LD is.

I'm pretty inexperienced with hallucinogens, but from what I've read about them I would agree with you on controlling a trip, I just thought DMT might be different since it is (maybe) produced in our bodies already.

So have you actually ever tried using LD control in a DMT trip, or are you just speculating that it's not possible? I understand about the negative and positive thoughts affecting the trip and would agree about that, but what I'm talking about is just like manipulating the environment, even just simple things like moving an object with your mind or flying or whatever.

Also I was wondering when you're tripping, do you know that you're tripping the whole time, or do you forget that you took the drug?

I tried DMT once but I don't have any recollection except for the initial geometric patterns on my eyelids and when I came to I was still tripping for a few minutes, seeing things swirl and change colors. I don't have any memory of the 5ish minutes in between. But when I tried salvia I remember I smoked it and almost immediately forgot that I had smoked it, and when I started tripping I was confused about what was going on, so I was just wondering if it was the same with DMT where you lose memory of having taken it.

I was pissed your thread was closed .. as it's as valid query and not about casual drug use. Research into this in being done again as I understand. This is relevant to dreamwork and the bias-fear against discussing chemicals doesn't belong on this site.
There is a cool documentary on DMT research but I don't have the link ATM. Send me a PM if you wish and I may be able to locate it ...

I'd done lots of LSD+ meditation decades ago... and control is impossible after a point IMO.....Once one enters pure awareness it's like swimming in another dimension, a sea of light-consciousness, and will-ego is nonexistant. Prior to that entry point, I retained some control of sensory selection.

Much of what I experienced remains in subconsciousness ..... as translation is rather tough for conscious mind.

I'd love to agin try chemically enhanced meditation or dreaming sometime, for a TINY energy boost. But DMT sounds more like a space shuttle blastoff, yet is an intriguing prospect, for a unique experience.
I'll likely never use strong psychedelics again, as my meditations are pretty effective, but I AM curious, and given the opportunity, WOULD be tempted.... to use a minimal dose.

Though psilocybin seems a more gentle alternative....
John C Lilly's books are amazing, If you haven't read em , you should. Edgy consciousness research that reads like a Speilburg script. He eventually chose Ketamine over traditional psychedelics for greater control,

Yeah this isn't specifically about LD's but what the hell.........

yes. also, yes. lol lol lo lo ll l llol lol

Originally Posted by Henri77

There is a cool documentary on DMT research but I don't have the link ATM.

Was it called The Spirit Molecule? I just watched that a couple days ago. I also have the book by Dr. Strassman but I haven't read through it all yet.

Other psychedelics are interesting and I may look into those later, but my main interest right now is DMT just because of it's basic structure and the possibility that our body produces it. Its similarity to dreams just got me wondering if control at all was possible so I thought I'd ask some dreamers if they had any experience with it.

Though if someone has an experience where they have had control over any kind of trip that would be interesting to know as well.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

yes. also, yes. lol lol lo lo ll l llol lol

Yes you've had a DMT trip that you could control? or are you just trolloling?

For the record, DMT is absolutely nothing like dreaming, and I find it very unlikely that it's involved in dreaming in any way. Psychedelic trips can be controlled to some degree when you're still in control of yourself, but not at high doses, especially not with ego loss. Since the latter is pretty much all DMT is used for... you're out of luck. Also, just in my experience, even the level at which other psychedelics are controllable doesn't allow for much control with DMT. It's concerned less with you and more with its own plans.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

For the record, DMT is absolutely nothing like dreaming, and I find it very unlikely that it's involved in dreaming in any way. Psychedelic trips can be controlled to some degree when you're still in control of yourself, but not at high doses, especially not with ego loss. Since the latter is pretty much all DMT is used for... you're out of luck. Also, just in my experience, even the level at which other psychedelics are controllable doesn't allow for much control with DMT. It's concerned less with you and more with its own plans.

Thanks for your input, glad to hear from someone who (I'm assuming) is experienced with it. Like I said before I'm very inexperienced with psychedelics and only tried DMT once with no recall of the experience out of my body, I'm mostly just going off what I've read that state similarities between dreaming and DMT. I had just hoped that I could find some sort of link between DMT and dreaming by seeing if there was any possibility of control over the trip like when LDing.

From what I've read though many seem to support the claim that DMT is similar to a dreaming state, so I'm wondering what your reasons are for why you think it's not? I had considered the ego loss to be a part of it, but that's why I wanted to know what someone who is experienced with LDing might think of the trip. Since LDers are able to say "I am dreaming" while in a dream and away from their body, I had wondered if maybe someone who is tripping (DMT specifically) could use the same methods to say "I am tripping" and gain control over it.

Which has led me to another interest, can someone who is tripping actually confirm that or are they completely separated from themselves and completely lose memory of taking the drug? This is mainly for full dose effects where one is separated from their body.

Originally Posted by Fuzzman

Thanks for your input, glad to hear from someone who (I'm assuming) is experienced with it. Like I said before I'm very inexperienced with psychedelics and only tried DMT once with no recall of the experience out of my body, I'm mostly just going off what I've read that state similarities between dreaming and DMT. I had just hoped that I could find some sort of link between DMT and dreaming by seeing if there was any possibility of control over the trip like when LDing.

No problem.

Originally Posted by Fuzzman

From what I've read though many seem to support the claim that DMT is similar to a dreaming state, so I'm wondering what your reasons are for why you think it's not? I had considered the ego loss to be a part of it, but that's why I wanted to know what someone who is experienced with LDing might think of the trip. Since LDers are able to say "I am dreaming" while in a dream and away from their body, I had wondered if maybe someone who is tripping (DMT specifically) could use the same methods to say "I am tripping" and gain control over it.

All dissociation is similar on some level. However, the actual experience of DMT is (at least to me) nothing like the experience of a dream. Dreams are more like deliriants. If anything, DMT is more like a near-death experience OBE is supposed to be, but even then much more alien. Not to mention ego loss, which isn't really a part of dreaming. The simplest way I could put it is like... a dream is something happening within you. (Except for stuff related to astral projection and shared dreaming, if you believe in that. But the controllable part of lucids is within you.) A psychedelic trip is more just like... something happening to you, like any other waking life experience. Like I said, they are controllable on some level because during them your mind is also bleeding into your sensory experience, but the overall experience is out of your control. Attempting to control a trip often does little more than stunt the experience because you're not letting it take its course.

Originally Posted by Fuzzman

Which has led me to another interest, can someone who is tripping actually confirm that or are they completely separated from themselves and completely lose memory of taking the drug? This is mainly for full dose effects where one is separated from their body.

It depends on how hard you're tripping, and even then is still variable. But rest assured, knowing you're tripping won't help you control a DMT trip.

Sorry to keep arguing some but I'm just trying to see this from all sides. I know how you say that dreaming is internal and DMT is external and it makes sense in the case of other drugs, but that was why it interested me so much when I read that DMT may already be produced in our body. I had hoped that if DMT and dreaming could be linked by the control aspect, then maybe it would show that DMT actually IS produced in our brains. I just figured that if it was something that we produce (and possibly plays a role in dreaming), then maybe just getting a larger shot of it, the brain would know how to handle it and would just be a more vivid "dream" in which one could use regular dream techniques to realize it and control it.

If DMT is just a drug and is not in our bodies, or even if it is but has absolutely no role that it plays in life, then yes I could see how it could be uncontrollable. I was just hoping to find links between DMT and dreaming to find out if it is something we make and also to find a reason for why it's in our bodies (i.e. dreaming) and it may explain some of the random occurances like OBE's and Alien Abductions that people say they experience, it just randomly being a larger amount of DMT released into us causing the experience.

As for ego loss, couldn't you say that dreams may present a form of it sometimes? If inexperienced at all with LDing, couldn't you have dreams where you have no sense of "I" in the dream? I know I've had dreams where I'm someone/something else or where I don't even have a role at all, I'm just watching. Would that be a form of ego loss? Maybe I'm confused about ego loss but this seems like it would be a characteristic of it.

I'm not trying to say that DMT is THE cause for dreaming, but maybe it has a role in it. I think because we're so used to being in our bodies while awake our dreams present the same similarities by firing the same neurons while asleep and we mostly have the sense of "I" during the dream. But maybe if DMT is in our brains, it gets released in very low doses and has an effect on our dreams that present the same similarities as the full trip, alien beings, new places, memory gaps, etc.

Sorry to keep pressing the subject, I'm just really hoping to find some concrete evidence for one side or the other to really get an idea about if it may or may not be something we produce naturally.


I think my best bet is to master lucid dreaming and try for myself, but that's a long way down the road Just wanted to see if anyone had already done it.

DMT is produced in the body, that is already known. It's a result of tryptamine being metabolized (metabolized? I think that's the right word here) by tryptamine N-methyltransferase. The same is true of bufotenine from serotonin, and 5-MeO-DMT from mexamine (which is metabolized from melatonin). However, just because it's in our bodies doesn't mean its effects must be controllable, nor does it mean it has a significant purpose there. I'm not saying it definitely doesn't, just noting.

There are many, many ways that the brain can bring out effects like OBEs and alien abductions other than through DMT, even including modulation of certain chemicals that may activate the same receptors as DMT (like serotonin) that are much more likely to be responsible for those effects simply because they are so much more present and already known to play large roles in perception. And there can be some aspects of ego loss in dreams, but I personally wouldn't say they feel like a complete ego death when you have those third-person dreams, more just like a strong dissociation.

I can't prove anything one way or the other, but I can say this. I have a pretty good amount of experience with psychedelics, dissociatives, and deliriants, and I've only ever had experiences that I'd say seemed even remotely similar to dreams beyond the fact that they were altered states from the latter two.

I agree with Alyzarin. DMT is way more like hypnagogia than actual dreams...yet unlike some hypnagogia, definitely cannot be directed or controlled. DMT is like a seizure...you can't control it. However I can only speak for the smoked variety, I have no idea whether or not an ayahuasca or other ingested method can be controlled in anyway. But smoking it is so intense...I can't even imagine attempting to exert any control.

"Don't fight it, you'll get brain bubbles."

Also Rick Strassman, author of The Spirit Molecule, has openly admitted that his theories about DMT are entirely speculation, and even expressed his disappointment that people seem to state his speculations as fact. DMT has never been found in the human brain/pineal gland, nor has it been shown to be directly associated to dreaming/NDEs/etc.

nina, wish I could like your post twice for pointing out that it's not conclusive that DMT is in the human brain. I didn't know Rick Strassman had issues with new-agers too.

The closest one can get to control is to remember how one found oneself in such a state. And good thing too, oftentimes control is delusion to begin with. The sooner one accepts this, the happier one will be.

Good luck and God Speed.

^^ Yeah, I should also add, that stuff I said about tryptamine N-methyltransferase, pretty sure that happens in the lungs.... Or at least, somewhere that isn't the brain.

Yea I was aware that none of what he said was proven, which was why I had brought it up in the first place, to find a link between them as a loose sort of "proof".

Thank you for clearing this up guys, this helps. I still intend to try eventually (cause I'm stubborn ), if not for trying control but at least to have a full DMT experience.

Originally Posted by Fuzzman

Thank you for clearing this up guys, this helps. I still intend to try eventually (cause I'm stubborn ), if not for trying control but at least to have a full DMT experience.

I wouldn't even think about possibly trying controlling it until you get the full experience.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

nina, wish I could like your post twice for pointing out that it's not conclusive that DMT is in the human brain. I didn't know Rick Strassman had issues with new-agers too.

Here's a statement from Rick Strassman that I particularly like...

Originally Posted by Rick Strassman

Addendum by Rick Strassman

"I did my best in the DMT book to differentiate between what is known, and what I was conjecturing about (based upon what is known), regarding certain aspects of DMT dynamics. However, it's amazing how ineffective my efforts seem to have been. So many people write me, or write elsewhere, about DMT, and the pineal, assuming that the things I conjecture about are true. When I was writing the book, I thought I was clear enough, and repeating myself would have gotten tedious.

"We don't know whether DMT is made in the pineal. I muster a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting a reason to look long and hard at the pineal, but we do not yet know. There are data suggesting urinary DMT rises in psychotic patients when their psychosis is worse. However, we don't know whether DMT rises during dreams, meditation, near-death, death, birth or any other endogenous altered state. To the extent those states resemble those brought on by giving DMT, it certainly makes one wonder if endogenous DMT might be involved, and if it were, it would explain a lot. But we don't know yet. Even if the pineal weren't involved, that would have little overall effect on my theories regarding a role for DMT in endogenous altered states, because we do know that the gene involved in DMT synthesis is present in many organs, particularly lung. If the pineal made DMT, it would tie up a lot of loose ends regarding this enigmatic little organ. But people seem to live pretty normals lives without a pineal gland; for example, when it has had to be removed because of a tumor.

"In both these regards--the pineal-DMT connection, and endogenous DMT dynamics--we ought to know a lot more within the next several years due to the efforts of a research group being led by Steven Barker at Louisiana State University. He, with his grad student Ethan McIlhenny, are developing a new super-assay for DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, and metabolites. This assay will be capable of detecting those compounds much more sensitively than previous generations of assays. They're looking at endogenous levels in awake sober normals, to assess baseline values of these compounds. We should have some data from those samples within a year. They also will be looking at pineal tissue. Once we have some baseline data in normal humans in normal waking consciousness, comparisons can be made between those levels and levels in endogenous altered states, like dreams, near-death, and so on."

Also despite my thinking that it would be extremely difficult/impossible to control, I will still test this idea the next time I do dmt, I happen to have quite a lot of it still, but am having trouble finding the motivation to do any...but testing your idea gives me a new goal at least, so I'll give it a shot and let you know how it works out. People DO need to do more research regarding DMT, Strassman has shown us this at the very least, hopefully they will.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

I wouldn't even think about possibly trying controlling it until you get the full experience.

I know, I wanted to build up my LDing and psychedelic knowledge and at least get a few good experiences before working on that, I figured it would be years down the road before I had the opportunity.

Originally Posted by nina

Also despite my thinking that it would be extremely difficult/impossible to control, I will still test this idea the next time I do dmt, I happen to have quite a lot of it still, but am having trouble finding the motivation to do any...but testing your idea gives me a new goal at least, so I'll give it a shot and let you know how it works out. People DO need to do more research regarding DMT, Strassman has shown us this at the very least, hopefully they will.

Thanks for the quote, I remember reading it in another thread but I want anyone who sees this one to be aware of that fact as well. I've read that it's all just conjecture but it dawned on me that maybe the control aspect might be something for researchers or others to look into in order to find some answers about it.

I'm starting to think that my idea was just too wishful, but I'd be really interested if you did test this and let me know how it goes

I've heard that salvia, when smoked, creates hallucinations that could be controlled.. Salvia divinorum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In my experience salvia is one of the least controllable and generally least lucid hallucinogens. o.O Where did you hear that from?

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Where did you hear that from?

From somebody that's not tried it, no doubt.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

In my experience salvia is one of the least controllable and generally least lucid hallucinogens. o.O Where did you hear that from?

In my first experience with Salvia, within like 30 seconds of smoking it I completely forgot that I had smoked it and I thought my friends were making me hallucinate somehow, quite unsettling. So I would agree with what you said about it being one of the least lucid hallucinogens. My experience with it is also limited so I can't say whether or not it can be controlled, but it seems unlikely from what I've read. I'll look into that also though, but DMT seems more likely IMO.