Thread: PSI Abilities...I Think Not.

Nesgirl, you probably missed my question. Could you tell me in which state lottery and what month Michelle won the lottery. I believe you, but I like to verify things. I just want to check the lottery records to make sure that month was a 1 million dollar lottery and to a woman (Michelle's mom). Thanks

Originally posted by Matchbook
Nesgirl, you probably missed my question. *Could you tell me in which state lottery and what month Michelle won the lottery. *I believe you, but I like to verify things. *I just want to check the lottery records to make sure that month was a 1 million dollar lottery and to a woman (Michelle's mom). *Thanks

I really don't know which month...she didn't tell me. I can tell you this...if the last name ends in Olson, it is probably her (she is 24 after all!)....I know she did, but maybe it was decided to be kept confidential or something...after all, she wants to avoid that James freak as much as she can...b/c he bothers her!...Maybe she made up a name....she is very good at doing that

Originally posted by Kaniaz
Nobody said that just because you can't do it doesn't make it real. Let's take the piano again. Sure I can't play the piano, but I know people that can, so playing the piano is possible. I saw the piano being played with my own eyes.
Now, psyhic powers. I can't do it, I've seen never seen anybody do it (or sufficent evidence to prove so). - -

Again, seeing with one's own eyes. Even most advanced psychics and psychokinesis practicioners don't see with their eyes the energies they manipulate with. Only the results can be seen. If you're interested in seeing them, here and here would be some video proofs of one of the most famous PK practicioners, Ninel Kulagina. If You'd be really interested in finding proofs, You'd find them.

Originally posted by Kaniaz+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaniaz)</div>

- - it goes against everything science tells us... - - [/b]

Einstein was made fun of when he came up with his now widely accepted, but rather strange at those times, theories. Everything new goes through three main phases : making fun of it, researching it, and acceping it.

Originally posted by Kaniaz+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaniaz)</div>

- - But I'm open to new ideas. - - [/b]

Sweet. Be sure to check out the links I've added. I'm not trying to make anyone believe something they really don't want to, just explaining some reasons for the opposite side.

Originally posted by Kaniaz
- - I find it extremely unlikely that everybody who happens to have this skill is not going to use it for something evil or wrong - because, well, that's wrong. I know enough people that'll go blow up things with psyhic powers if they had them. - -

That's why these people never obtain these powers.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz@
But, psyhic powers only come when you acheive spiritual enlightement? Damn, convinent or what?!

Pardon, I'm not a native speaker of the English language, so I can't express my thoughts just the way I'd like to. Psychic skills can be obtained and further developed by just about anyone. Spiritual enlightenment (seeing god of somekind) and spiritual developement have a difference.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz
Well, that and lie to yourself about powers. But yeah - fun is fun, knock yourself out, I don't mind.

When one believes in something, the \"something\" for the one is real. Otherwise it would be self-deception. Lying to oneself, as You've said.

Originally posted by Kaniaz+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaniaz)</div>

You rebel. [/b]

What's the point in suppressing your own beliefs and values just for the reason to be to other's liking.

Originally posted by I@
Prove me that anything exists beyond my own mind. Prove me that anything existed before me, prove me that anything will exist after me.

<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz
If it quacks like a duck, talks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, and when you autopsy it, it's exactly like a duck, then as far as your perception goes, it's a duck. Simple. Sure science is kind of based on assuming that our perception isn't somehow skewed, but that's just like saying \"Yeah, you see that, but you could be wrong because it might not be\". So it's not worth arguing with, or at least I have absolutely no intrest in running around in pointless circles. (Philosphy is a great place for this). '

I wasn't being allegorical with this. You didn't answer my request. I wanted to make an offer for anyone to assure me that he or she exists beyond my own mind. How could I be sure that after my death, this world exists? It exists because we want it to exist. If a person is colour-blind, then for him/her, the colours he cannot perceive, just don't exist. If a person is insane and sees daytime hallucinations, then the things hes/she sees, exist. And the everybody agrees, that he/she sees something. Something that might be just in the person's head, but it's there.
If a person is depressed, the world for the person might be gray and sad, full of misery, again when a person is happy, then the world for him/her is also happy and full of bright colours. We have the ability to create our own point of view, and with doing that, our own world.

Originally posted by Kaniaz
Since that viewpoint is so illogical and well, makes no sense, it would be pretty much impossible to me to reply in any logical manner, so I'll just go with \"uh, sure\".

The logical mind has many reasons to argue with moving objects with one's mind or telepathically communicating with others. But, when the logical mind is set aside for a moment, the "illogical" mind would understand and accept it quite easily.

Again, seeing with one's own eyes. Even most advanced psychics and psychokinesis practicioners don't see with their eyes the energies they manipulate with. Only the results can be seen. If you're interested in seeing them, here and here would be some video proofs of one of the most famous PK practicioners, Ninel Kulagina. If You'd be really interested in finding proofs, You'd find them.

EE-UUH (family fortunes?). \"Proofs\" are not \"rather shady videos that appear to come from somewhere on the internet which is funny because they got taken from one article but i'm pretty sure they're real anyway because well, you know, they just...oh shut up and use your chi or something\".

Einstein was made fun of when he came up with his now widely accepted, but rather strange at those times, theories. Everything new goes through three main phases : making fun of it, researching it, and acceping it.

The problem is, Einstein actually had proof (and made sense in the meantime). In this case, Psi has no proof. (Proof does not consist of just what some other guy said, either. I'll get to tihs later).

That's why these people never obtain these powers.

Man, this stuff is more convinent than wal-mart.

And that's convinent.

Pardon, I'm not a native speaker of the English language, so I can't express my thoughts just the way I'd like to. Psychic skills can be obtained and further developed by just about anyone. Spiritual enlightenment (seeing god of somekind) and spiritual developement *have a difference.

You speak very well for a person who is not a native; but that's OK. I can hardly convey things perfectly either, sometimes.

You see, the problem is, everything here seems too convinent to me. Everything links up in such a way that is so simple, and so well, man-made to me, I can't really give it so much as a grain of belief. Not until real, solid proof is in front of me. Not some video on the internet. Not hearsay. Not philophsy.

It is the same for the rest of the scientific world.

When one believes in something, the \"something\" for the one is real. Otherwise it would be self-deception. Lying to oneself, as You've said.

No, when one believes in something, it does not have to exist, thus it is self-deception. If it did exist and they believed it...well, then it's just normal.

What's the point in suppressing your own beliefs and values just for the reason to be to other's liking.

Oh no, there isn't one. Do what you like!

It exists because we want it to exist.

No, it exists because it does.

If a person is colour-blind, then for him/her, the colours he cannot perceive, just don't exist.

No, colour blind people know that these colours exist. They simply can't see them. That doesn't mean they don't exist. If I cover my eyes right now, then your post doesn't exist. Does that work in the same lines? Guess you don't exist. I can't see you, anyway. I guess America, no wait, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, and the whole universe does not exist.

Because I haven't seen them either.

If a person is insane and sees daytime hallucinations, then the things hes/she sees, exist.

Uh, no. They do not exist. They just see things that are not there. Like, optical illusions.

If a person is depressed, the world for the person might be gray and sad, full of misery, again when a person is happy, then the world for him/her is also happy and full of bright colours. We have the ability to create our own point of view, and with doing that, our own world.

Yes, but this world is fake.

The logical mind has many reasons to argue with moving objects with one's mind or telepathically communicating with others. But, when the logical mind is set aside for a moment, the \"illogical\" mind would understand and accept it quite easily.

OK, so throw all logic out the window and it's all good? Hell yeah!

Please spell it "convenient". I am not usually stickler for spellings, but convinent just gets under my skin.

So who will win the bout between Psi and Non-Psi? Will it be Psychedelic, will it be Kaniaz? I am putting all my money on nobody. If you people think you are going to convince one another of your own beliefs, you have not been debating for very long. Let's just put it this way. Until someone with psi powers decides to come out in the open and show their powers once and for all to the whole world, instead of having psi abilities being hidden obscurely and "conveniently" in the background, they don't exist.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Matchbook
Please spell it \"convenient\". *I am not usually stickler for spellings, but convinent just gets under my skin.

Sure thing. But please put quotation marks around \"convinent\". That annoyed me. Really. It spoilt my entire day.

So who will win the bout between Psi and Non-Psi? *Will it be Psychedelic, will it be Kaniaz? *I am putting all my money on nobody. *If you people think you are going to convince one another of your own beliefs, you have not been debating for very long. *Let's just put it this way. *Until someone with psi powers decides to come out in the open and show their powers once and for all to the whole world, instead of having psi abilities being hidden obscurely and \"conveniently\" in the background, they don't exist. *[/b]

Yes, we already know that. But that never stopped anybody from arguing. If we all go off to our corners and huff, how can you ever expect a resolution? At least when I argue with psychedelic, I know his point of view on psi powers. Then, perhaps, there's a slither of a chance to actually get somewhere.

Originally posted by Kaniaz

Sure thing. But please put quotation marks around \"convinent\". That annoyed me. Really. It spoilt my entire day..

LMAO

Well I'm glad he pointed it out actually. Because we're being graded on spelling duh.

Well, the videos of Ninel Kulagina are not "internet videos." They are films that emerged from Russia during WW2. The films were reportedly made by Russian researchers. It is said that it took her about two hours to prepare to move an object, her pulse would quicken, and the kinesis was said to be very physically taxing. According to her biography, she did not learn these abilities, but discovered that she had the natural ability.
It could be an old hoax, and I think it would be unwise to use it as a basis for belief.

Originally posted by Jrels
Well, the videos of Ninel Kulagina are not \"internet videos.\" They are films that emerged from Russia during WW2. The films were reportedly made by Russian researchers. It is said that it took her about two hours to prepare to move an object, her pulse would quicken, and the kinesis was said to be very physically taxing. According to her biography, she did not learn these abilities, but discovered that she had the natural ability.
It could be an old hoax, and I think it would be unwise to use it as a basis for belief.

Fair enough. Call them porn videos for all I care; but they still come up with roughly the same amount of verifable proof (ie: none).

This is my theory, if it's not well known then it might be real. Like not many ppl know of lucid dreaming. But if it's well known like telekniess or vampireism or something then it might not be true. I mean that makes some sense right?

Originally posted by Kaniaz

Yes, we already know that. But that never stopped anybody from arguing. If we all go off to our corners and huff, how can you ever expect a resolution? At least when I argue with psychedelic, I know his point of view on psi powers. Then, perhaps, there's a slither of a chance to actually get somewhere.

My posts are not meant to convince anyone of anything, just providing information for someone who might be slightly interested.

My final thoughts.
When PSI isn't (yet?) scientifically proven, why can't it exist? You seem to go by the idea \"guilty until proven innocent\". When there were no machines invented that could perceive InfraRed and UltraViolet light, didn't they still exist? Yes, they did.
Some steps have been made in order to prove the PSI-phenomena, and it is called Kirlian Photography, though it's not the main purpose of this. Pictures made before and after doing a PK/Energy Healing session showed a rather big difference in the energy field of the person performing these things. Then again, a skeptic could find Kirlian Photography to be another form of tricking the science-centered minds.
And again, if You'd be really interested in finding proof on PK, You'd find them. Some \\\"not shady videos\\\", if You're interested.
There have been official scientific experiments with some well-known psychics, but why they aren't covered on the Mass Media remains unknown. At least for most people.

Originally posted by Kaniaz

Uh, no. They do not exist. They just see things that are not there. Like, optical illusions.

There is nice saying about self-deception - A lie repeated a hundred times becomes the truth.
Arguing doesn't take us anywhere. Though, I had a fine discussion with You.

Originally posted by psychedelic
There is nice saying about self-deception - A lie repeated a hundred times becomes the truth.
Arguing doesn't take us anywhere. Though, I had a fine discussion with You.

As you are not wiling to continue, then sure - I had an intresting time just as much.

Ahhhh the great "Is Psi Real?" debate. You'll have to excuse me ahead of time if I take a long time to reply... my life is pretty hectic, and I'm busy a lot. Nonetheless, I couldn't help but stick my nose in and throw a few ideas out there .

The quotes from hepennypacker52 in the original post will be displayed in itallics. My comments will be in normal text underneath.

Here's what I think about all of these "PSI abilities", from what I read (and wasted a part of my life) on yesterday :

You spent one day reading about psi abilities and have already concluded something? That's amazing, considering there are thousands of intelligent people dedicated to the field of figuring it out, that have spent their entire lives...

B) Now for a general statement about all of these magical things : it's bull. I do not know how all of you guys think that you actually can suck energy from the earth or sun and do things with it. It's just not possible, it's all in your head.

Ok this really isn't an argument... "it's fake because it's fake!". Of course, you do present right at the end that you think it's all in our heads. I agree that people must be careful when experimenting with things outside the scope of modern science, and they must be very skeptical. I also agree that a lot of people who believe in psychic things might be delusional, and it is probably all in their head. However - that does not mean EVERY person who believes in psychic topics is delusional.

There are ways to prove it isn't all in our head. For example, if I can make a warm psi ball, and throw it at a digital thermometer, and the reading on the thermometer goes up... wouldn't that be proof that SOMETHING is going on? Or what about the videos at PsiPog.net (not "PsiProg" ) of psychokinesis? Even if the videos are produced by "normal" means (which, in my opinion, they aren't), they still aren't in our heads. The objects definitly MOVE in the videos. While you might argue that they move via "normal" means is another topic all together - the point being, it isn't just "in our heads".

c) PSI balls? In your imagination. I wasted about 10 minutes of my life trying to make one, and I actually believed in it for that 10 minutes, and pictured myself "sucking" in energy from the sun, and then the earth. Well guess what, I saw nothing but air between my hands. People that think they see these things, it's in their head.

People have taken pictures of visible psi. And just because you can't do it in 10 minutes doesn't mean it's impossible. Don't you think you would need to spend a LITTLE more time before deciding whether it's real or not? Like the one member said earlier - if you tried to play the piano in 10 minutes, you would suck ass. But that doesn't mean it's impossible.

d) Astral projections? It's all in your head. You can imagine that you seperate yourself from your body, but it's just all your imagination. Why do you think people are confined to mental institutes? It's because their brain is telling them things that make them believe things that are not normal.

If you are serious about researching AP, I would highly recommend the book: Journeys Out of the Body by Robert Monroe. It's only like $10, and it's very scientific in nature. It explores the possibility of it being "all in our head" throughly.

e) Force fields? Ok, make a force field, and I'll come over and punch you in the face. We'll see how that works.

Force Bubbles have been used to stop forces greater than your punch. Again, you're not really presenting a logical argument here other than "man, they just can't be real!".

f) I went to PSIprog.net and read some of the articles, it's all just bull and I actually laughed at it. They say, "yes, you can create energy balls and use psychic powers to tell what number the dice will land on, but you're not going to do it every time". IT'S ALL PROBABILITY. If you say "the dice will land on 3" and it happens, that's because you had a 1/6 chance of doing it, and you actually hit that chance.

Yes, believe it or not we are aware of probability. In fact, all serious psi researchers are. Statistics and probability are used to PROVE psi exists, actually. For example, if you try to force a 3 on a die, and you roll it 100 times... probability says it will land on 3 about 16 or 17 times. Now what if you actually roll it 100 times and it comes up on 3 over 60 times. That is very significant. Things like standard deviation and z-score are used to determine if something paranormal has happened.

g) Just to have some fun, I tried the deck of cards thing. I took the ace of spades, and shuffled it in the deck. I removed 6 cards, shuffled some more, removed 6 cards, etc. I got down to about 10 cards until I hit the ace. I must have powers! Not. It's so funny how they say "yes, use the power to move this tiny shard of paper." Do you know how minute of a disturbance it takes to get a ultra-thin piece of paper to move? And you think your mind did that?

You addressed two topics here. The first is about the cards... That card game is actually pretty fun, and I've done it to the point of having the target card be the last card I turn over. That's actually not very likely, according to probability. Of course... things like that take more practice other than "hey, let me give this a shot, then when I fail I will have more evidence that psi is fake".

You also addressed the pinwheel. While I agree that there are people who aren't correctly preparing the pinwheel, and it is just moving by "normal" means... there are actually people out there that are more anal than you about minute disturbances, and dedicate a lot of time to remove every little disturbance - and then STILL move the pinwheel in the direction they are trying to. See Placebo's posts .

h) PSIprog also uses backup that makes it completely evident that they do not know what the hell they are talking about. They say, "sure, you may say this is impossible and the laws of physics prevent it, but what about time travel? People believe time travel exists, but that's not in physics..." Ok good statement, it's too bad that the laws of physics do not prevent time travel or negate it, but the laws to deny psychic powers, sorry.

While I agree that that argument is pretty weak, keep in mind I wrote it when I was 15 . The laws of physics don't really say psychic powers are impossible... In fact, research quantum physics and you'll find a lot of bizarre laws that you never thought modern science would support - for example, a particle being in two places at once, and phasing out of existance when not being observed.

i) Hmm, if these telekinetic powers are real, then why hasn't anybody gotten really good at it and taken over the word? I'm sure that of the thousands of people that waste their lives, at least a few of them should be so good at it that they can kill people with their PSI balls or mind power.

That's like saying "people can't bench press 100lbs, because if they could, they would just take over the world". You are exagerating the abilities, and then asserting that since your exagerated concept doesn't exist, then the original un-exagerated concept doesn't exist.

j) Please try and think about what you're doing, because it's just going to create a big waste of time for you. Start worrying about reality, not about spending your entire life "seperated in your spritual body in space", reality is what matters.

I agree that reality is what matters. Although you don't really provide any definition for reality other than "normal stuff that doesn't include psychic things". Perhaps you should be inspecting reality a little more closely?

k) If you choose to not listen to a word I say, well at least you can have fun with yourself for the rest of your life. When everybody labels you a psycho and ridicules you, you can just go live in an astral projection or something like that, at least you'll be at peace with yourself.

Actually, I thought that at first. But the more I open up to people about my strange obsession, the more people come to me with their own experiences, saying that they don't think it's strange at all, and they believe in what I say (at varying degrees). It's actually quite common for a person to have strange psychic experiences in their life. My one friend used to have a ghost in their house when she was little, and never really told anyone. My other friend has precognitive dreams, and never told anyone except her mother (who also has precognitive dreams). Another friend thought I was completely crazy... then tried to pinwheel exercise out of curiousity and succeeded... and then was freaked out .

My suggestion isn't that you immediately accept everything that I say and get obsessive about psychic abilities and practice hard every day to become this super master psychic. My suggestion would be: If you are going to invest some time in deciding whether this stuff is fake or not, invest a LITTLE more time than one day (if you're serious enough). Perhaps grab a book or two, do a little reading, try some exercises out... maybe spend one month checking it out. If after a month you don't get any results, and you still find it to be completely bull... then fair enough. At least you looked into it a little more than 10 minutes .

~Sean
Webmaster of PsiPog.net

First off the bat, I've not responded to parts of your post that were just advice to the guy in question, since well, that's just advice.

Ahhhh the great \"Is Psi Real?\" debate. *You'll have to excuse me ahead of time if I take a long time to reply... my life is pretty hectic, and I'm busy a lot. *Nonetheless, I couldn't help but stick my nose in and throw a few ideas out there * .

Worry not, everybody here loves sticking their noses in. Me included.

You spent one day reading about psi abilities and have already concluded something? *That's amazing, considering there are thousands of intelligent people dedicated to the field of figuring it out, that have spent their entire lives...

Well, sure, I don't see why not? Sure there's doctors trying to figure out why it happens or really prove it conclusively or whatever, but for common man (who doesn't have a doctorate in every field) a day is quite alot to be spending on some random thing you saw on the internet.

Ok this really isn't an argument... \"it's fake because it's fake!\". *Of course, you do present right at the end that you think it's all in our heads. *I agree that people must be careful when experimenting with things outside the scope of modern science, and they must be very skeptical. *I also agree that a lot of people who believe in psychic things might be delusional, and it is probably all in their head. *However - that does not mean EVERY person who believes in psychic topics is delusional.

There are ways to prove it isn't all in our head. *For example, if I can make a warm psi ball, and throw it at a digital thermometer, and the reading on the thermometer goes up... wouldn't that be proof that SOMETHING is going on? *Or what about the videos at PsiPog.net (not \"PsiProg\" * ) of psychokinesis? *Even if the videos are produced by \"normal\" means (which, in my opinion, they aren't), they still aren't in our heads. *The objects definitly MOVE in the videos. *While you might argue that they move via \"normal\" means is another topic all together - the point being, it isn't just \"in our heads\".

Well, that's great - you've got solid enough proof as far as I can see. Randi? But no, he's evil...or something. I know you've been to him before but it's hardly like you tried much. Randi does indeed have an ego several thousand million handspans long, but hey, I guess that's what any completely new idea has to endure. It's all in the name of awareness, right?

People have taken pictures of visible psi.

From your very own site:



Well, that clears that up... (image from psipog.net)

*And just because you can't do it in 10 minutes doesn't mean it's impossible. *Don't you think you would need to spend a LITTLE more time before deciding whether it's real or not? *Like the one member said earlier - if you tried to play the piano in 10 minutes, you would suck ass. *But that doesn't mean it's impossible.

Agreed. But you should not look too hard for things that aren't there. If you get what I mean.

Yes, believe it or not we are aware of probability. *In fact, all serious psi researchers are. *Statistics and probability are used to PROVE psi exists, actually. *For example, if you try to force a 3 on a die, and you roll it 100 times... probability says it will land on 3 about 16 or 17 times. *Now what if you actually roll it 100 times and it comes up on 3 over 60 times. *That is very significant. *Things like standard deviation and z-score are used to determine if something paranormal has happened.

Sure.

You addressed two topics here. *The first is about the cards... That card game is actually pretty fun, and I've done it to the point of having the target card be the last card I turn over. *That's actually not very likely, according to probability. *Of course... things like that take more practice other than \"hey, let me give this a shot, then when I fail I will have more evidence that psi is fake\".

The card you are looking for being the last one you turn over. Um, ha ha?

You also addressed the pinwheel. *While I agree that there are people who aren't correctly preparing the pinwheel, and it is just moving by \"normal\" means... there are actually people out there that are more anal than you about minute disturbances, and dedicate a lot of time to remove every little disturbance - and then STILL move the pinwheel in the direction they are trying to. *See Placebo's posts * .

Yep, proof, authenticity,. alighjoiregh jb BLAH

While I agree that that argument is pretty weak, keep in mind I wrote it when I was 15 * . *The laws of physics don't really say psychic powers are impossible... In fact, research quantum physics and you'll find a lot of bizarre laws that you never thought modern science would support - for example, a particle being in two places at once, and phasing out of existance when not being observed.

And the two things you describe - things being in two places and quite possibly not being there when we can't see them (unprovable as far as I can see ) help your argument for psi powers......how?

That's like saying \"people can't bench press 100lbs, because if they could, they would just take over the world\". *You are exagerating the abilities, and then asserting that since your exagerated concept doesn't exist, then the original un-exagerated concept doesn't exist.

He's not exaggerating the abilities. These people that claim to be able to do all this stuff are.

I agree that reality is what matters. *Although you don't really provide any definition for reality other than \"normal stuff that doesn't include psychic things\". *Perhaps you should be inspecting reality a little more closely?

Reality is basically, for me, whatever slots in perfectly (or close enough) based on your past observations. For example, I observe that my room is empty. A chicken suddenly appearing in the middle would not be real (or, to be technical, extremely extremely unlikely) because I did not observe it A) walk in B) otherwise enter.

Actually, I thought that at first. *But the more I open up to people about my strange obsession, the more people come to me with their own experiences, saying that they don't think it's strange at all, and they believe in what I say (at varying degrees). *It's actually quite common for a person to have strange psychic experiences in their life. *My one friend used to have a ghost in their house when she was little, and never really told anyone. *My other friend has precognitive dreams, and never told anyone except her mother (who also has precognitive dreams). *Another friend thought I was completely crazy... then tried to pinwheel exercise out of curiousity and succeeded... and then was freaked out * .

Sounds like they weren't very objective.

Originally posted by peebrain
Force Bubbles have been used to stop forces greater than your punch.

I'd very much like to see a reliable source to back that up. (and reliable or not, I'm curious about the claim anyway - what great forces are we talking about? cars and tanks? bullets? baseballs?)

What are force bubbles anyway. I've shot energy invisible in my Lucid Dreams but it looks like a huge shock wave without any definition.

It looks like the forum is divided between hardcore science followers and occultists I must say that I believe in psi/magic. However there will never be enough evidence to prove the existence of psi/magic to the unbelieving.

Pretty much the more success with magic/psi you have the more faith you have, but you can never fully extinguish the doubt. Even being able to perform certain things yourself will never be enough.
The benefit of the doubt is always there: "Oh, it was just a strange coincidence"... "That's just a trick"... and so on.


The followers of science feel more "secure" with their beliefs. Yet the science is still very young, and it's lagging behind the human thought. Thousands of years ago people came up with the certain concepts that werent discovered until recently (think of discoveries of ancient greek philosophers, who used only the power of reasoning to come up with their ideas).


The attitude " I believe it when I see it" is reasonable, except that most people dont put any effort into actually "seeing" anything. They expect everything to be given to them on a silver platter


There are numerous abilites hidden deep within our minds, but it's impossible to even comprehend them with the usual "baseline" consciousness... Unfortunately methods of seeing beyond the scope of baseline consciousness are either illegal or hard to teach... (most drugs are banned and not many people know how to meditate, channel or achieve gnosis)

Originally Posted by Leo Volont

Dear Kaniaz,

Well, that nobody has heard of Pralad Djani simply indicates that the World Media is also in on the Conspiracy to suppress the Truth.

And about Free Mason... look at America and Europe and their decline in Engineering and Manufacturing. It is a result of Free Masons being moved into every Department Head Slot, when they don't know how to run their offices. So the Industries suffer. In the Orient, where the Masons have yet to inflitrate, promotions are more strictly by Merit and so they are kicking the West's Ass in research and development as well as in plain and simple quality manufacturing. Look at NASA -- full of Free Masons, and they can't get a launch off anymore because the guys wearing the Rings get the Top Slots without knowing a damned thing about Rocket Science.

and it doesn't stop there. Why do you suppose the CIA doesn't know an ass from an elbow? It is because promotions aren't on the basis of Merit, but who is closest to being a 33 Degree Mason. Nobody needs to know their Job, they just have to move up in the Mason Hierarchy and the World, as little as they know about, is their Apple.

I suppose the largest Coup of the Mason was International Banking. By controlling Finance, they could set up the Media to be Mason-Friendly.

where do you get these ideas?

Anyway, my whole stance on this subject is this:

I will withold judgement on it until it happens to me. When it does, I'll believe. If it never does, I'll always say "I don't know if it is real or not". It's pretty simple to me.

If you all would look at my last post on 'Psi Abilities, Are they real?' you will find a link. And for any one who cant find it i shall retype it here:

http://pages.innerpotential.org/spooks.html
MUAH HA HA HA
here is some reasureance(sp?) for all you skeptics
and proof for the non-believers

Booya!!!!!!!

you can even do a little bit of research your selves with some of the info they have on that page! I, Myself, just put in sunstreak,CIA, and Psychic and came with loads of stuff from google.

Wow. Talk about a resurrection
Flounder - Don't worry about Leo, he's quite the nut. Oh, and he's no longer with us (banned some time ago)

I got a problem with some of the skeptics here. I'm probably making a HUGE mistake in posting, but I'll do it anyway...
I've been doing this stuff my ENITRE life. I was BORN this way. I've been doing it since I was a CHILD. I see energy, I feel energy. I DO NOT talk to the dead, or see the future like Sylvia Browne or John Edwards. That's not me, but what I do do does fall into the catagory as 'psychic.'
I beat my head into the ground trying to figure out what was wrong with me. I went to doctors, I FORCED my parents to take me to psychiatrist after psychiatrist. Both my mom and dad are mental health workers.
I respect other people's views. I like skeptics. I don't want publicity. I don't want money. I don't want the fame and stuff that comes wiht being 'proven.' I jsut wanna be left alone.
I acutally DO know psychics that would be VERY pissed off if someone DID prove psychic abilities. They go up to Vegas and use their abilities to win money. Some are even addicted--not to psi, but to gambling.
I spent SOOO many years of my life worried sick about my sanity. It tore me apart.
I didn't believe in this stuff either. I thought what happened to me was normal--that everybody can do it.
It was a REALLY hard reality check when I found out that it wasn't normal.
Why don't I go out and win the lottery?
I'm tried of people. I'm tired of 'Well, you're psychic! PROVE IT!' and then getting pissed off at me when I do. I'm tried of being called names, of being stared at because I forget not to say something. I'm tired of people asking questions after questions about nearly everything. I'm tired of helping people that don't even say thank you, and just come back and do it again and again and again. I'm tired of the skeptics that come as different people trying to prove my own insanity to me. I'm tried of people using me. I'm tired of being different. To me, I'm normal, it's everyone else that has the issues.
I am only 19 and I'm already tired inside. I can't tell you what my life is like. I can't tell you what it's like to be psychic. I can't tell you anything. I didn't even know I was until someone pointed it out to me. I can never truly get you to understand how hard it is.
I started out just wanting to help people. I don't even charge or anything. MOst of the time, people just like to talk to me, get my advice and stuff. I just WANT TO HELP.
I don't want the world. I don't want a television show. To me people that charge for this stuff is evil. I don't like it. It feels SOOO wrong. I don't want anything.
I just want to help. That's all. I want my own little quiet space in the world and be left alone.
I'm not a miracle worker. I'm not blessed by god. I'm not anything. I'm a girl. I'm a person. I just have an ability...like some have an ability to play football really well and another has an ability to create great art. This is mine. When you look into psi, look for people. Not Gods. We are not gods. We're never going to levitate cars. It's not fair to push that image on us. Have you ever thought about how many people you're hurting?
Sometimes, those people are alot younger than you think they'd be--alot younger than being a teenager, or even a preteen.
I like James Randi. Let him do what he is doing. It protects people like me. Skeptics protect us from the world.
Please don't abuse this post...I'm just poking my head in here briefly...don't nail me to the cross...

So what can you do?

Originally Posted by hepennypacker52

Disclaimer : I'm not trying to disrespect anybody here. Just at least read what I have to say without quickly dismissing it.

Here's what I think about all of these "PSI abilities", from what I read (and wasted a part of my life) on yesterday :

a) I'll just start off by saying that I do believe in lucid dreaming, because it's science, and you're asleep, and it's your imagination. I imagine it would still feel cool though, which is why I try to become lucid and keep a small journal. I DO NOT let lucid dreaming get in the way of reality though.

B) Now for a general statement about all of these magical things : it's bull. I do not know how all of you guys think that you actually can suck energy from the earth or sun and do things with it. It's just not possible, it's all in your head.

c) PSI balls? In your imagination. I wasted about 10 minutes of my life trying to make one, and I actually believed in it for that 10 minutes, and pictured myself "sucking" in energy from the sun, and then the earth. Well guess what, I saw nothing but air between my hands. People that think they see these things, it's in their head.

d) Astral projections? It's all in your head. You can imagine that you seperate yourself from your body, but it's just all your imagination. Why do you think people are confined to mental institutes? It's because their brain is telling them things that make them believe things that are not normal.

e) Force fields? Ok, make a force field, and I'll come over and punch you in the face. We'll see how that works.

f) I went to PSIprog.net and read some of the articles, it's all just bull and I actually laughed at it. They say, "yes, you can create energy balls and use psychic powers to tell what number the dice will land on, but you're not going to do it every time". IT'S ALL PROBABILITY. If you say "the dice will land on 3" and it happens, that's because you had a 1/6 chance of doing it, and you actually hit that chance.

g) Just to have some fun, I tried the deck of cards thing. I took the ace of spades, and shuffled it in the deck. I removed 6 cards, shuffled some more, removed 6 cards, etc. I got down to about 10 cards until I hit the ace. I must have powers! Not. It's so funny how they say "yes, use the power to move this tiny shard of paper." Do you know how minute of a disturbance it takes to get a ultra-thin piece of paper to move? And you think your mind did that?

h) PSIprog also uses backup that makes it completely evident that they do not know what the hell they are talking about. They say, "sure, you may say this is impossible and the laws of physics prevent it, but what about time travel? People believe time travel exists, but that's not in physics..." Ok good statement, it's too bad that the laws of physics do not prevent time travel or negate it, but the laws to deny psychic powers, sorry.

i) Hmm, if these telekinetic powers are real, then why hasn't anybody gotten really good at it and taken over the word? I'm sure that of the thousands of people that waste their lives, at least a few of them should be so good at it that they can kill people with their PSI balls or mind power.

j) Please try and think about what you're doing, because it's just going to create a big waste of time for you. Start worrying about reality, not about spending your entire life "seperated in your spritual body in space", reality is what matters.

k) If you choose to not listen to a word I say, well at least you can have fun with yourself for the rest of your life. When everybody labels you a psycho and ridicules you, you can just go live in an astral projection or something like that, at least you'll be at peace with yourself.


Just my thoughts...

While I'm not one to neccarily believe in sycics, psi, or really any mystical powers, you really came off as a gerk from that post mate. In case you didn't realise, this whole forum called Beyond Dreaming is a forum where thiose who do believe in this kind of thing can discuss and talk about their experinces/believes. Its also a place that they are supposed to be given a place to talk freely without those who don't believe them telling them how "insane" they are. Although its ok for the occasional critic to come a long as long as he is respectful to others discussing their beliefs, its not ok for someone like you to label them as "insane", "crazy", or people whio "waste their life". Please be a little nicer mate, whenever you agree or disagree with them, their people too.

Originally Posted by goldney

So what can you do?

Originally Posted by spongelogan

While I'm not one to neccarily believe in sycics, psi, or really any mystical powers, you really came off as a gerk from that post mate. In case you didn't realise, this whole forum called Beyond Dreaming is a forum where thiose who do believe in this kind of thing can discuss and talk about their experinces/believes. Its also a place that they are supposed to be given a place to talk freely without those who don't believe them telling them how "insane" they are. Although its ok for the occasional critic to come a long as long as he is respectful to others discussing their beliefs, its not ok for someone like you to label them as "insane", "crazy", or people whio "waste their life". Please be a little nicer mate, whenever you agree or disagree with them, their people too.

Spongelogan: You're right. He came off as a real jerk, and what he said was leaving out alot of us--like those born that way. I thought it was very mean and only half thought out. I respect his views, I like critics, but I wish he hadn't come off as such a jerk. I came here to post, because a lot of you sounded like you were looking for god, and not people, when it came to psychics. As someone born that way, I thought my imput would help. When Hepen was posting, he came off as someone that really doesn't know what he's talking about. There are SOOO many misconceptions about psychic abilities...it's really sad. I'm not meaning to mean offense to anyone. I'm sorry if I sound that way. My deepest apologies.

Goldney: I can see/feel energy--any type of energy. I can heal. Empathy and other abilities along those lines. I'm not going to say it all so I don't give anyone reason to do anything to me. I'm not a precog or a medium. I'm not like those people, like Sylvia Browne, preaching how my abilities come from god and all that.
Again, I was born this way. I didn't learn it. My parents arn't spritiual or even into stuff like this. They're not newage, as some people tend to think people like me come from.
I'll leave the post there for now.