attracting mean spirits

i have been projecting for the past few years on and off, is slow process and i look forward to when it is going well very much, it is an amazing thing.
recently in my room at uni where i project i feel bad or violent people in the room, i avoid their faces and just glide past them but i do not know why they are there, they feel as if they want to hurt me and their presence makes me uneasy. my vulnerability must attarct them more too which is not good
i don't have them when i am at home, and i am worried i am becoming depressed in waking life now because they are around me all the time
last time i came out of my body one was directly there about to try and 'kill' me
what can i do to make them go away
how can i stop them hurting me
what do they want
and is this why i am feeling so low?
many questions i do hope someone can help me as i have exams soon and the stress may be making it seem worse
but i do not want to enter realms where i am not wanted and unable to cope with what is thrown at me

thanks muchly

cle =_-*

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Originally posted by cle
i have been projecting for the past few years on and off, is slow process and i look forward to when it is going well very much, it is an amazing thing.
recently in my room at uni where i project i feel bad or violent people in the room, i avoid their faces and just glide past them but i do not know why they are there, they feel as if they want to hurt me and their presence makes me uneasy. my vulnerability must attarct them more too which is not good
i don't have them when i am at home, and i am worried i am becoming depressed in waking life now because they are around me all the time
last time i came out of my body one was directly there about to try and 'kill' me
what can i do to make them go away
how can i stop them hurting me
what do they want
and is this why i am feeling so low?
many questions i do hope someone can help me as i have exams soon and the stress may be making it seem worse
but i do not want to enter realms where i am not wanted and unable to cope with what is thrown at me

thanks muchly

cle =_-*

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Welcome to the forum! We hope that you enjoy your stay. Well, you might be suffering a bit of SP, & also, souls cannot be destroyed, b/c if they were, they'd be 4ever out of existance. If you really have a hard time w/evil spirits, why don't you just try to find me, & enter my dreams (that would be nice, more Nintendo players!). I don't hurt any spirit or Sci-fi'er, unless it is a guy & he touches me.. If an evil spirit enters my dream, it will be in serious trouble, b/c they are victims in my LDs!! :lol:

If your experiences seem to be something more real than mentally generated imagery, you could be seeing the partial remnants of departed souls(the shells).

As far the theory goes, several of the world's mythologies, religions and esoteric traditions say that when a human dies the lowest part of the soul becomes detached from the highest part, which leaves for higher spiritual planes. These detached "shells" are then possessed by the evil or negative non-human spirits who dwell in the lower spiritual planes(such as the Astral plane). With a "vehicle" that is closer to the physical plane, these spiritual forces can interact more closely to the physical plane.
These spirits do respond to properly wielded human authority.

You could try a general "banishing ritual" before going out, and carefully note if there's any difference in how you feel over a period of time. Even if it turns out to be something else you might notice some differences.

I recommend this one(scroll down to "The Lesser Ritual"):
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/libero.html

There are some other interesting and related things on that page that might be of use.

Come on! You forgot to welcome her! This is her 1st Post! Come on! Big cheers everyone!
:cheers: :banana: :bravo: :breakitdown: !http://img161.echo.cx/img161/5353/yoyo6ob.gifhttp://img161.echo.cx/img161/3449/stickjumpgirl9sj.gifhttp://img161.echo.cx/img161/5017/stickfig4nu.gifhttp://img161.echo.cx/img161/7754/spin1cg.gif

You don't have to welcome every noob :) That's what the Dreamguides are for :P You also don't have to respond to every post :wtf: :D:P :smiley:

Dear Cle,

One needs to be careful concerning one's decor. If you are familiar with astral travel then you might already know that pictures up on the wall can act as Astral Gateways to corresponding astral scenes. so it would make me nervous to have a large "Bat out of Hell" poster on the wall. But considering the campus milieu as we find it today, with all of the 'Gothics' limping and slithering around like living ghouls, we must suppose that there are many open Gatewells to Hell in many of the dorm rooms -- pictures and representations of various demonic entities and locales.

The most effective thing would be to place a Crucifix (not just a protestant cross, but a represenation of Christ on a Cross which is a Crucifix). You could go to a Catholic Religious Goods Store and purchase very cheaply some pewter medals which would give you some protection -- Saint Benedict Medals have traditionally been used to ward off evil spirits. A statue, picture or a medal of Saint Michael would work. A Miraculous Medal could be discretely worn.

If you are self conscious as to what your company would think of having so much religious memorablia about, then you can wear a Miraculous Medal or a Saint Benedict medal on a chain and out of sight.

I live quite alone and so I have a crucifix on every door, and a portrait of Our Lady on each wall, with several representations of some favorite Saints. I wear the Chord of Saint Joseph and of Saint Philomena, as well as the Brown Scapular of the Carmelite Order, which comes with a small Saint Benedict medal and a Crucifix. and a Miraculous Medal. I was taught how to multiply Holy Water and so I multiplied up Holy Water from Lourdes France, from that famous shrine, and drink it as well as sprinkle my abode with it. One can also get salt blessed by a Priest, but no sense going overboard...

thanks muchly for such wondrous replies my dearests :oops:
the link is of much help and i will look properly tonight.
i am a bit warey of bringing religious things into my home when i am what i have always been... a kind of athiest/agnostic/mushroom fiend so it seems like i might be lying to myself if i am using crucifixes ect..
although if i was to buy one, and the evil was pushed away from me then i would indeed be more open minded to such things and would hopefully have use from it
but do you see what i mean?
just using 'god' when i need him and not believing in him any other day, just when i am in trouble?
i don't think that is fair .... but then maybe it is i don't know enough about christianity to know this, but is there a less religious way of warding them away?
yes there is a goth wholives opposite me... i didn't think that would make a difference how curious!
i will return shortly thankyou for some lovely advice my sweetness migglejiibs
pots of joyousness
sunshine ahoy! yay i am going out to play
cle

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Originally posted by Wasup
You don't have to welcome every noob :) That's what the Dreamguides are for :P You also don't have to respond to every post :wtf: :D:P :smiley:

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Aw! Come on! I like welcoming them! :D And aren't you going to welcome her? :wtf:

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Originally posted by nesgirl119


Aw! Come on! I like welcoming them! :D And aren't you going to welcome her? :wtf:

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thats done in PM's

Well, it is a lot funner to welcome them on the boards, & you forgot to welcome her, too! :?

IT is so curious to be part of such a friendly forum!
i use ones where when you join you get called police, analysed for what you look like then laughed at for being young!
i don't know... this pagan rooted lovliness is something nice indeed
must remember to come here more often :)

once i projected at home and ended up lying face down in a room unable to move, as i wasn't concentrating (or maybe too much) when i felt a very mean presemce approaching but i managed to find my way back to my body just before they got me. had a very gangster like feeling to it if this makes any sense... maybe a feeling of being vulnerable and out of my depth..
another time here at uni as usual there was sketchy people near my door. this time the person definitely has weapons of some kind, and although didn't aim at me, was definitley feeling quite threatening.
it is an old building, and i have heard that yes although they are bad they won't attack unless you go up to them.
but recently it feels like they are waiting for me...

o well
mig

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Originally posted by cle
thanks muchly for such wondrous replies my dearests :oops:
the link is of much help and i will look properly tonight.
i am a bit warey of bringing religious things into my home when i am what i have always been... a kind of athiest/agnostic/mushroom fiend so it seems like i might be lying to myself if i am using crucifixes ect..
although if i was to buy one, and the evil was pushed away from me then i would indeed be more open minded to such things and would hopefully have use from it
but do you see what i mean?
just using 'god' when i need him and not believing in him any other day, just when i am in trouble?
i don't think that is fair .... but then maybe it is i don't know enough about christianity to know this, but is there a less religious way of warding them away?
yes there is a goth wholives opposite me... i didn't think that would make a difference how curious!
i will return shortly thankyou for some lovely advice my sweetness migglejiibs
pots of joyousness
sunshine ahoy! yay i am going out to play
cle

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One needs to remember how readily the Druids and the Celts came over to Marian Catholicism, which was but a barely veiled Goddess Religion, and frankly still is. Read the Chronicles, and one discovers that Apparitions of Mary appeared to the Druidic and Celtic Priesthoods and converted to Marianism quite without any other outside influence. The Bishops did make every effort to define Catholicism by paulist doctrines, and some good Congregations were declared heretical,but today nearly all of the Spiritual Religious Orders are Marian Goddess Worshippers whom the Bishops have never been able to fully control. The Catholic Church is and remains a Battlefield between Light and Dark -- Christ and Antichrist.

So, anyway, by arming yourself with the Symbols of the Marian Goddess Religion, you don't have to feel as though you have lowered yourself to the anti-Religion of the fat and corrupt bishops. Be like the Celts and the Druids before you who built all of the Great Cathedrals and dedicated them all to Our Lady, which became their virtual name -- Notre Dame. Remember, in True Esoteric Spiritual Catholicism, Christ is only the Son, but Mary is the Mother -- Pure Spirit lifting up Nature to Transcendence.

Dear Leo Volont,

What do your beliefs about the esoteric basis of Catholicism and Goddess worship have to do with recommending the motifs and tokens of Catholicism to a non-Christian?
I'm sure you will correct me for being mistaken, but it sounds like you are saying "uncorrupted" Catholicism is essentially Paganism/Druidism?
(It's common knowledge that Christianity borrowed from the religions it conquered.)
So why not skip the corruption you mention and go straight to one of the purer sources upon which Catholicism was based?
Instead of using Catholic amulets and prayers, use Celtic ones!

You're right about one thing. There has been alot of corruption and impurity introduced into religion over the past couple of thousand years. That's why I like to recommend adopting ancient Babylonian and Egyptian religion. They're too ancient to get spoiled.

Toodles,
archae

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Originally posted by archae93
Dear Leo Volont,

What do your beliefs about the esoteric basis of Catholicism and Goddess worship have to do with recommending the motifs and tokens of Catholicism to a non-Christian?

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You must be a better Christian than I, because you obviously must suppose that symbols and sacramental objects of Marian Catholicism must depend upon Faith in order to have any effectiveness -- a uniquely Christian Doctrine. I, being more Religiously Eclectic, suppose no such thing and advocate the use of these Devices because they happen to be Universally Effective whether one has any 'faith' in them or not. You see, "Faith", though it looks like a Positive Doctrine, has always been used as an excuse for why things DO NOT happen. When the Miracles don't come, hasn't it always been because the Believers lack of Faith was blamed. So "Faith" -- the first Doctrine of Paul's was indeed the first doctrine of the Antichrist. In a World where Faith is Impossible it explains why People will forever be separated from God, because they have no Faith. To break that Curse, one must stop believing in Faith, and begin believing in what Works.

So, you see, it does not matter whether she is Catholic, Christian, or only a Fairie in the the Flower Garden -- these Devices I recommended for her WOULD SOLVE HER PROBLEM. They work.

And what is your advice to her -- to stand tall on Spiritual Defenselessness?

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Originally posted by Leo Volont


You must be a better Christian than I, because you obviously must suppose that symbols and sacramental objects of Marian Catholicism must depend upon Faith in order to have any effectiveness -- a uniquely Christian Doctrine. I, being more Religiously Eclectic, suppose no such thing and advocate the use of these Devices because they happen to be Universally Effective whether one has any 'faith' in them or not. You see, \"Faith\", though it looks like a Positive Doctrine, has always been used as an excuse for why things DO NOT happen. When the Miracles don't come, hasn't it always been because the Believers lack of Faith was blamed. So \"Faith\" -- the first Doctrine of Paul's was indeed the first doctrine of the Antichrist. In a World where Faith is Impossible it explains why People will forever be separated from God, because they have no Faith. To break that Curse, one must stop believing in Faith, and begin believing in what Works.

So, you see, it does not matter whether she is Catholic, Christian, or only a Fairie in the the Flower Garden -- these Devices I recommended for her WOULD SOLVE HER PROBLEM. They work.

And what is your advice to her -- to stand tall on Spiritual Defenselessness?

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Since you can't really prove it works it's kind of pointless anyways. Give me picture evidence that these objects really work and then I will believe you.

cle: I recommend that when you see these spirits that you send a message through your aura that you hate the spirits and want them to leave. Intimidate them. Make the spirits think you can cause them terrible pain and don't want them to be around. If you do not fear them they will not scare you.

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Originally posted by Yume

Since you can't really prove it works it's kind of pointless anyways. .

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That is an odd argument from a Lucid Dreamer. How much else have we been able to 'Prove" around here?

Let me lay out my argument -- that Images and Artefacts that represent certain Spiritual Entities or Principals are in effect Astral Windows to these Entities and Artifacts.

What we are dealing here with is a kind of Spiritual Atheism. It is a refusal to believe that anything Spiritual is Real. There may be some minor concessions, but if people truly thought that there was truly a Real Spiritual Dimension then they would have to acknowledge, like the Greeks and other Ancient Cultures that there is the possibility of the Heroic. What is the Heroic? The Heroic is when Humanity can effect the Spiritual Plane. There have been Heroes... more recently termed Saints who have been able to pave certain roads into the Spiritual Realms. There has been built a kind of Spiritual Infrastructure. The Spiritual World is no longer entirely given over to Demons. the Spiritual World has been to a great event Civilized. And we in the world have been given certain tools to help us tap into these consciously constructed Infrastructures.

But it is popular to be skeptical, nihilistic, and amoral. If I was 40 years younger and very stupid maybe I would give it try myself.

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Originally posted by Leo Volont


You must be a better Christian than I, because you obviously must suppose that symbols and sacramental objects of Marian Catholicism must depend upon Faith in order to have any effectiveness -- a uniquely Christian Doctrine.

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Thanks for your reply.
No, I am not Christian at all, in any way, shape or form.

You speak of the relics and symbols of that religion as if they were literally the technological equivalent of tools such as the hammer or saw. You just pick them up and use them, and they work since they are charged with meaning due to their inclusion in some grand spiritual "infrastructure."

In several places the bible is very blunt about the amount and quality of divine protection afforded to non-believers, weak-believers and "sinners". (I'm using "believer" in the traditional sense of one who has "faith and works", not just faith). So if you are saying that is not the case, and that a non-Catholic can expect "something to happen" by adopting the sigils of Mary, then you are not speaking with the authority of the bible or the canonical doctrine, but rather from the authority of your own interpretation of things.

It becomes a very tricky tightrope to walk when one eschews biblical authority or canonical church doctrine and forges off on one's own. By leaving the fold, the only recourse is to decide things on the basis of one's own reasoning and one's own experience. One certainly cannot backtrack from that point and claim that one's reason and experience is an unassailable revelation like the authority one left off(otherwise one had no business leaving in the first place). So if one is discussing things which cannot be demonstrated via direct experience to another person, then one had better adopt a Critical tone, or else one is forced to mimic the unassailable tone of religious authority, canonical doctrine and revelation.
By mimicking that tone, isn't one essentially no better?

I realize this has diverged greatly from the original topic. I guess I can blame it all on Leo since he keeps engaging the conversation!

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Originally posted by Leo Volont
That is an odd argument from a Lucid Dreamer. *How much else have we been able to 'Prove\" around here?

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Lucid dreaming and OOBE have more real evidence that prove themselves than small relics. People can do experiments to prove these things whereas with spiritual artifacts there is no proof out there that there artifacts have done anything.

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Originally posted by Leo Volont+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo Volont)</div>

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Let me lay out my argument -- that Images and Artifacts that represent certain Spiritual Entities or Principals are in effect Astral Windows to these Entities and Artifacts.[/b]

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These entities that which you speak of do not lay in one artifact alone. They do not position themselves in one object. They are their own separate thing outside of the object. They represent certain things, but they do not call spirits to certain locations. Spirits are moved by calling them not by small trinkets you can pick up at a store. You may have these items, but it is you essentially that calls the spirits to you.

<!--QuoteBegin-Leo Volont
What we are dealing here with is a kind of Spiritual Atheism. *It is a refusal to believe that anything Spiritual is Real. *There may be some minor concessions, but if people truly thought that there was truly a Real Spiritual Dimension then they would have to acknowledge, like the Greeks and other Ancient Cultures that there is the possibility of the Heroic. *What is the Heroic? *The Heroic is when Humanity can effect the Spiritual Plane. *There have been Heroes... more recently termed Saints who have been able to pave certain roads into the Spiritual Realms. *There has been built a kind of Spiritual Infrastructure. *The Spiritual World is no longer entirely given over to Demons. *the Spiritual World has been to a great event Civilized. *And we in the world have been given certain tools to help us tap into these consciously constructed Infrastructures.

But it is popular to be skeptical, nihilistic, and amoral. *If I was 40 years younger and very stupid maybe I would give it try myself.

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I am not skeptical, nihilistic, or amoral. I am Jewish myself. I do see all ideas as possible until you have a counter-example that can't be argued. I do believe that since God existed before demons did and the Spiritual World was never entirely demon's land. There was always some paradise in the Spiritual world. These tools as you say have not done anything to provoke connection between the spiritual world. It is the the human soul that has allowed itself to be connected.