Thread: Don't You Just Wish This Was Possible?

Originally Posted by Queen Zukin

Yes.



Then, should the same be true about God? If one believes that (that as in what you are saying), then it is illogical that one would believe in God - there is no sound way to prove for or against his existence. How do we know that the evidence that seemingly disproves the hypothesis actually disproves it? Refer back to my previous post for more explanation on this.

Much of the mystery surrounding shared dreaming relies on unverified hypotheses. Unfortunately, as I tried to explain in my previous post, this belongs to the category of the untestable. But is the untestable invalid? Until recently, we couldn't prove that humans could think. Alas, finally we know the answer to that plaguing question . Perhaps science will catch up? Maybe, maybe not.

I think that you're on to something, but I would reword what you are saying to something like this: An honest, critical person should contemplate their beliefs to see if they truly align with reality, while not taking subjects on face value. In other words, until science can definitively prove for or against shared dreaming, it's something best left to contemplation.

Hope that made sense, probably didn't.

Z

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to say that it should be scientifically verifiable otherwise they're blindly following their belief. What I meant to say, is that every honest, conscious person should have a reason for following their beliefs (whether this reason is deemed rational or not by science is not the concern). And likewise, every honest, conscious person should have a hypothetical reason that would make them renounce their beliefs (and again, this reason need not align itself with scientific enquiry - after all, we're dealing with beliefs that cannot be empirically refuted).

If someone has no reason for following--or one that would result in the renunciation of--a belief, then they are blind. They can't be helped. Ever. In essence, they're not in control of their beliefs, but are instead controlled by their beliefs. Until they think about why they believe what they believe, they're basically sleep walking.

And I emphasise, this need not align itself with the scientific method. Empirical evidence in either direction can be one reason for believing or renouncing; however, that's one reason. There are many more, e.g. personal ones.


Ultimately, I'm not tackling the scientific verifiability of the existence/non-existence of a particular phenomenon, but rather one's belief in the existence/non-existence of this phenomenon. That make sense?

Noooooooooooooooooooo

Originally Posted by MrTransitory

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to say that it should be scientifically verifiable otherwise they're blindly following their belief. What I meant to say, is that every honest, conscious person should have a reason for following their beliefs (whether this reason is deemed rational or not by science is not the concern). And likewise, every honest, conscious person should have a hypothetical reason that would make them renounce their beliefs (and again, this reason need not align itself with scientific enquiry - after all, we're dealing with beliefs that cannot be empirically refuted).

If someone has no reason for following--or one that would result in the renunciation of--a belief, then they are blind. They can't be helped. Ever. In essence, they're not in control of their beliefs, but are instead controlled by their beliefs. Until they think about why they believe what they believe, they're basically sleep walking.

And I emphasise, this need not align itself with the scientific method. Empirical evidence in either direction can be one reason for believing or renouncing; however, that's one reason. There are many more, e.g. personal ones.


Ultimately, I'm not tackling the scientific verifiability of the existence/non-existence of a particular phenomenon, but rather one's belief in the existence/non-existence of this phenomenon. That make sense?

I think I kinda have an Idea of what you are trying to say. Basically you are saying that you are pretty sure that most of the individuals who believe in this only really believe it just because they simply can, while at the same time there are plenty of reasons to doubt it. Essentially blindly following it?

If this is what you are trying to say I totally agree with you. It is a much more in depth explanation of my accusation that they are probably all kids lost in a dream.

If this is not what you are getting at then I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Essentially, yes.

Let me apply it to you:

Why, Birbs07, do you believe/disbelieve in dream sharing?
What would make you a believer or make you renounce this belief in dream sharing?

You should be able to honestly answer those questions to not be blindly controlled by your unconscious. This is stage one.

How you then go to verify the validity of those reasons comes after. You may subject the reasons to the scientific method, a theological one, a logical one, a philosophical one etc. This is where people differ in their perspective.

But stage one must be answered otherwise you're not even conscious of your beliefs, prejudices, stereotypes etc.

Make sense?

Originally Posted by Birbs07

But dont read if you are easily offended

Spoiler for Honest Opinion:

Now I am not saying that these people are liers or frauds. What I am saying is that they are probably a couple of kids 12-17 or immature adults lost in a(for lack of a better word) dream. I think one said lets try it and the other said lets do it. They went to bed and one or both had random dreams. They got in touch the next day and told each other about it and were both in agreeance that it happened and got more and more carried away over it till they even buy into it.

Spoiler for Even harder:

I'm also willing to bet that most of them aren't stable individuals who think rationally about things and are looking for something to fill there so called empty helpless lives that way they are unique and special and they have a friend or group who is just like them, and anyone challenging them would be attacking who they are and what they have been through and wouldn't understand at all.

I don't expect any proof. I only expect people to kinda agree, 100% agree, totally agree or 100% RAGE QUIT ANGER DISAGREE!!

They are adults. They are indeed stable. If they were unstable, they probably wouldn't be trying to meet up with other people.
I am taking a class on how to share dreams, along with a few others that posted in this thread.

I have had a shared dream before, once accidentally with my brother.

And to the OP. Read to beyond dreaming section before you ask a question like this and turn this thread into an easy opportunity to troll others.

I really like what was said about the questions you should ask about your beliefs, and am glad to know I can answers these question a out mine. I think he best way to test this would be to have test subject A, subject B, and observer C. A and B would decide on a place to meet and any other details they need to find eachother. A and B would then be seperated without contact, and C would seperately tell A and B different phrases to tell eachother in the dream. Then after they wake up, A would tell C what B told him in the dream, and visa versa.

Originally Posted by mcguinnessdr

I really like what was said about the questions you should ask about your beliefs, and am glad to know I can answers these question a out mine. I think he best way to test this would be to have test subject A, subject B, and observer C. A and B would decide on a place to meet and any other details they need to find eachother. A and B would then be seperated without contact, and C would seperately tell A and B different phrases to tell eachother in the dream. Then after they wake up, A would tell C what B told him in the dream, and visa versa.

Agreed

Originally Posted by mikeac

They are adults. They are indeed stable. If they were unstable, they probably wouldn't be trying to meet up with other people.
I am taking a class on how to share dreams, along with a few others that posted in this thread.

I have had a shared dream before, once accidentally with my brother.

And to the OP. Read to beyond dreaming section before you ask a question like this and turn this thread into an easy opportunity to troll others.

Simply being in a class for something does not make it real. I went to college with a guy who you would think was an everyday dude but he taught a nighttime class to about 3 other individuals on how to control fire........ Yes how to control fire. There are classes for all sorts of random crap. Maybe the guy started the class because he accidentally made a candle burn to bright and burned his house down as a kid IDK.

I am not trying to invalidate your experiences. What I am getting at is where is the proof. There is a simple way to provide proof, not 100% solid evidence but enough to say "well what in the hell else could they have done". Has your class tried it? Not tried to have shared dreams but provide evidence that there are shared dreams by simple tests. I mean if I was in charge of the class I would want as many people to want to be able to do it because keeping something like that to myself would be selfish. Running about shouting "HEY EVERYONE WE CAN SHARE DREAMS COME JOIN" isn't gonna get anyone's positive attention, but if you provided something, other than 2 people saying "yAy We shared a dream."

How hard would it be for you guys to do the Phrase test? People set tasks for there dreams all the time. What about tell 2 dream partners different phrases and when they share a dream, and remember to tell each other the phrase, they tell you the phrase. Bam Proof. Especially if you had more and more accounts of this being pulled off. I mean how hard could this actually be?

I just don't understand why none of you have tried it. Is it fear of it being impossible? Look if you guys believe it with nothing other than your personal experiences then you are gonna believe its real even if you find out there is no way to pass on a message, or no way to confirm that you shared a dream. As for some of us, we need more than, "I can share dreams and so can you!!!!"

Originally Posted by Birbs07

Simply being in a class for something does not make it real. I went to college with a guy who you would think was an everyday dude but he taught a nighttime class to about 3 other individuals on how to control fire........ Yes how to control fire. There are classes for all sorts of random crap. Maybe the guy started the class because he accidentally made a candle burn to bright and burned his house down as a kid IDK.

I am not trying to invalidate your experiences. What I am getting at is where is the proof. There is a simple way to provide proof, not 100% solid evidence but enough to say "well what in the hell else could they have done". Has your class tried it? Not tried to have shared dreams but provide evidence that there are shared dreams by simple tests. I mean if I was in charge of the class I would want as many people to want to be able to do it because keeping something like that to myself would be selfish. Running about shouting "HEY EVERYONE WE CAN SHARE DREAMS COME JOIN" isn't gonna get anyone's positive attention, but if you provided something, other than 2 people saying "yAy We shared a dream."

How hard would it be for you guys to do the Phrase test? People set tasks for there dreams all the time. What about tell 2 dream partners different phrases and when they share a dream, and remember to tell each other the phrase, they tell you the phrase. Bam Proof. Especially if you had more and more accounts of this being pulled off. I mean how hard could this actually be?

I just don't understand why none of you have tried it. Is it fear of it being impossible? Look if you guys believe it with nothing other than your personal experiences then you are gonna believe its real even if you find out there is no way to pass on a message, or no way to confirm that you shared a dream. As for some of us, we need more than, "I can share dreams and so can you!!!!"

lol yeah I'm gonna do that phrase test for you as soon as I get a partner for sharing dreams. The class is here on DV actually, there are like 20 students.
Controlling fire? WTF?

Birbs07, you need to experience it to believe it like many of us have. Saying these people are insane immature liars just because you don't see a logical explanation is the wrong way to approach stuff like this. You can at least TRY it. Plus you shouldn't act like you know any of this if you've only had a small experience with dreaming.

1. Personal experience shouldn't be the way to test statements.
2. I am pretty sure it has been proven that dream-time is linear and almost correlates with reality (probably to the extend of the individuals sense of time).

Originally Posted by Pheenix

1. Personal experience shouldn't be the way to test statements.
2. I am pretty sure it has been proven that dream-time is linear and almost correlates with reality (probably to the extend of the individuals sense of time).

Absence of evidence for non-1:1 dreamtime:realtime is not evidence of absence. LaBerge found that, of those he tested, real time correlated with dream time; however, this not synonymous to claiming that dilation of that ratio is impossible. Until an experiment is devised that sets out to disprove time dilation, then it is inconclusive.

Originally Posted by Pheenix

1. Personal experience shouldn't be the way to test statements.
2. I am pretty sure it has been proven that dream-time is linear and almost correlates with reality (probably to the extend of the individuals sense of time).

if that were true how is it possible to have dreams that last longer than you are asleep for?

The same reason you differentiate between told time and book length in literary criticism. I agree with Transitory on dilation. But I believe it will always be a dilation of how long the dream lasted, not how long it was experienced.

Originally Posted by whiterain

if that were true how is it possible to have dreams that last longer than you are asleep for?

In my experience, dreams are sped up, skipping all the unimportant parts of the dream. For example, a ten minute drive to my friends house was only a few seconds. It's not like the dream was actually fast forwarded, it was skipped. I still passed all the streets necessary to going to the house, except there were no stoplights or other cars and the streets were much much smaller That is the same case for dreams seeming to last for hours.

Successful Troll Is Successful

Originally Posted by mikegrung

Successful Troll Is Successful

Lol, seriously.

Hi sorry but what im gonna say has nothing to do with your exciting forum but HOW DO YOU POST FORUMS?!

Or threads or whatever.

K, thanks and srry again.

Haha, np.

It's not like anyone was strictly discussing the topic set forth by the OP anyways. XP

Non-troll is not a troll.

Haha, this thread really reminds me of all the argument I had with the beyond dreaming people some time ago.

I didn´t really read this whole thread, just the posts at the beginning and then just quickly scrolled the rest and took a look at some posts.

But yeah, I really think that the idea of shared dreaming is pretty hilarious. And you can´t compare it to the debate of god´s existence, because shared dreaming, unlike god, should be provable by it´s very definiton. If shared dreaming were possible, then there would be shared dreams, and there have been none never ever ever anywhere. If there has, please tell me.

And there is just a huuuge load of facts or evidence or whatever against shared dreaming, and absolutely nothing to support it.

And oh yeah, if you actually can have shared dreams, you´ll get a million dollars!, so good for you!


Now, to kids who so much wish shared dreaming was possible, I have good news for you: In the future, in our lifetime, it will be possible for multiple people to enter one virtual space. I bet my kids will play games like that! Technology is improving so fast that this is very likely, in my opinion.