Thread: Secrets of the Dream Plane

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

That's a really cool story! Thanks for sharing. I want to go to that O'nash world in a dream.

Dude... he said right there, loud and clear, that he just made that up to try to prove his point. There's no such fucking thing! How could you even BELIEVE something that he made up is true?! If you're referring to a dream in your Inner World, I see what you mean, but if you think something like what he made up actually exists...

Originally Posted by Snowboy

Dude... he said right there, loud and clear, that he just made that up to try to prove his point. There's no such fucking thing! How could you even BELIEVE something that he made up is true?! If you're referring to a dream in your Inner World, I see what you mean, but if you think something like what he made up actually exists...

What if everything is an Inner World dream of someone or something?

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

What if everything is an Inner World dream of someone or something?

Well, that's your problem. Besides, what does that even have to do with what I just said? And I agree with spockman on what he said.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

What if everything is an Inner World dream of someone or something?

It would change surprising little about how I live my life. It's the macrocosm microcosm, thing. Even if my life was a dream, I would be no more real than any of the 'dream characters.' We would all just be manifestations of the same entity and so I could appreciate them as sentient life. And if my actions still affected the drea world, how is that different on a fundamental level from my actions affecting a physical world? In the end we are all part of the same entity, anyway. It is all a matter of definition and scale. I can define a chair as it's own thing. It has an essence that makes it unique from every other chair. OR I can define the row of chairs as it's own entity. That row of chairs has some inherent quality making it 'it.' Or I could define the essence of the building the chairs were in, or the country, or the world, the galaxy, or the universe. How far do you want to zoom in the microscope? A skin cell is as much a living being as I am. What I am saying is that our lives and how they are defined are fairly arbitrary and that doesn't change if we are in a dream or in the physical world. It is like when people use the simulation argument, itself an extention of the Descartes demonic problem. I will respond the same as Descartes, essentially, I know that I exist. That is what matters most so I would live the exact same way even if we were in a simulation. The nature of the universe doesn't define my interaction with it.

Originally Posted by spockman

It would change surprising little about how I live my life. It's the macrocosm microcosm, thing. Even if my life was a dream, I would be no more real than any of the 'dream characters.' We would all just be manifestations of the same entity and so I could appreciate them as sentient life. And if my actions still affected the drea world, how is that different on a fundamental level from my actions affecting a physical world? In the end we are all part of the same entity, anyway. It is all a matter of definition and scale. I can define a chair as it's own thing. It has an essence that makes it unique from every other chair. OR I can define the row of chairs as it's own entity. That row of chairs has some inherent quality making it 'it.' Or I could define the essence of the building the chairs were in, or the country, or the world, the galaxy, or the universe. How far do you want to zoom in the microscope? A skin cell is as much a living being as I am. What I am saying is that our lives and how they are defined are fairly arbitrary and that doesn't change if we are in a dream or in the physical world. It is like when people use the simulation argument, itself an extention of the Descartes demonic problem. I will respond the same as Descartes, essentially, I know that I exist. That is what matters most so I would live the exact same way even if we were in a simulation. The nature of the universe doesn't define my interaction with it.

but the nature of the universe we think to be true settles our possibilities and limitations while interacting with it, i guess it does define the interactions of us with it.
as long as we believe in something it becomes or stays true to us, reality.

i just noticed this while being sick with a chronic illness, that i brought up over myself. its a dream i created myself, though not being conscious of that.
after noticing that, i know i can either keep staying in this dream and let the pain come over me and get caught by it, or recognize it as a dream and start believing in that because of some inner convincement and step out of it.
we define the dreams we call reality, so im working on a positive dream for my intestine at the moment, not trying to hold on to the old dream i created once, breaking the chains now.

Originally Posted by pandanese

but the nature of the universe we think to be true settles our possibilities and limitations while interacting with it, i guess it does define the interactions of us with it.
as long as we believe in something it becomes or stays true to us, reality.

It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of focusing your attention on it. You can still argue against something you don't believe in, but in order for that to happen, it still has to exist on some level. Therefore it exists whether you believe in it or not, as long as you sustain it's existence with your attention.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of focusing your attention on it. You can still argue against something you don't believe in, but in order for that to happen, it still has to exist on some level. Therefore it exists whether you believe in it or not, as long as you sustain it's existence with your attention.

im with you there. i think it goes both in hands. i think this existence we are talking about is made up by our beliefs (conscious or not), thats how i explain myself the barrier of becoming lucid. dreams, wether its "real" life or during the regeneration phase of my body, are what you believe them to be. the difference between waking life and "dreaming life" is that i got a history of development here in waking life, supported by emotional and sensorial happenings that make me feel the viability of this experience (im not that advanced in lucid dreaming yet).

if i look at those near death experiences by people who believe in hell or heaven, i see that their beliefs formed the way they experience this happening and because of that conviction, they focused their attention on happenings they believe to become true while dying. so they make up their own dream, just like we all do every day and night.

Originally Posted by pandanese

im with you there. i think it goes both in hands. i think this existence we are talking about is made up by our beliefs (conscious or not), thats how i explain myself the barrier of becoming lucid. dreams, wether its "real" life or during the regeneration phase of my body, are what you believe them to be. the difference between waking life and "dreaming life" is that i got a history of development here in waking life, supported by emotional and sensorial happenings that make me feel the viability of this experience (im not that advanced in lucid dreaming yet).

if i look at those near death experiences by people who believe in hell or heaven, i see that their beliefs formed the way they experience this happening and because of that conviction, they focused their attention on happenings they believe to become true while dying. so they make up their own dream, just like we all do every day and night.

But it's still not about beliefs. Even if you don't believe in heaven, but that description of that idea is the only one you have of the afterlife, then that's what you default to. Everything you know and have experienced becomes a lego block that your dreams are constructed from. Even if you think heaven is the stupidest thing you ever heard, you could still end up there in a dream state no matter what your beliefs.

Originally Posted by goldenaxel321

THIS MAN GETS IT.

Nomad, if I had even the slightest belief in shared dreaming, it is now completely and utterly destroyed. You really are mental, and I strongly believe it is very disrespectful to everyone who believes in shared dreams. You have crushed hopes. I have the very strong feeling you are either a drug addict or suffering from mental conditions or simply just trolling.

You sir, are a disrespect to lucid dreamers. I bid you good day.

Go easy on the guy! I'll admit he's not the perfect poster boy for shared dreaming, but the fact remains he still has a lot of shared dreams, no matter how crazy he may be. I don't agree with most of he theories on the matter, but I can't deny he can do it.