Thread: How does shared dreaming work?

This should be in Beyond Dreaming. I am of the persuasion that shared dreaming is impossible because there is no solid evidence to support it.

Originally Posted by kookyinc

This should be in Beyond Dreaming.

This.

Moved to BD. You'll get a more targeted response here

EDIT: Seems another DG moved it while I was making this post

Dream sharing although hard to proove is very real! The possibilities are endless. You should read nomads shared dreaming tutorial here

It works like meeting people in waking life, except, you have to travel through wormholes.

Originally Posted by kookyinc

This should be in Beyond Dreaming. I am of the persuasion that shared dreaming is impossible because there is no solid evidence to support it.

Not everything that exists is easy to prove from a scientific standpoint. And even when it has been proven; the evidence is usually rejected if it's paranormal. The Monroe Institute has proven that people can meet up in non-physical reality; they have proven this to US Military personal. Their research helped spawn project Stargate.

In my experiences; I have shared dreams with 12 people during my life. In that time, I have talked with friends who have shared dreams with family members. I had the uncanny experience to be at my work standing by three girls who started talking about a dream and watched enjoying the group coming to a realization that they had all dreamed the same dream.

What made it fascinating was the fact that the dream had some very exaggerated dream symbolism making the details extremely subjectively rare; nearly impossible that all three could have dreamed the same symbolism as well.

Why is this not so common? Oh well maybe because 99.999% of the planet is dream illiterate? People treat dreams as being nonsensical, meaningless tripe. And when they do... actually do take an interest in dreaming; they try to use dreaming to satisfy fantasies and desires.

Finally, this is something I have observed countless times: in mutual encounters, if the other person lacks any cognitive function and awareness they appear as if in a catatonic zombie like state where they are unable to respond to questions. My friend and I called it "sleeper's grog" slang for being void of left-brain function and awareness. Vegetative at best.

When someone finally snaps out of it, gives you attention the potential for a mutual experience increases but they can still personify the dreamstate meaning overlay you being there with another dream. If that personification doesn't happen, they still have to deal with waking induced amnesia when dream memory collapses. If they lack dream recall then the likelihood of remembering the encounter consciously is reduced.

How do I know this? In the small group of people I managed to break through all these challenges; there were countless other attempts that failed miserably due to the difficult challenges of dream illiteracy, lack of awareness, personification and memory on their part. I have told people information that they told me in a potentially mutual dream that did have relevance to their lives; but they don't even remember the dream encounter.

There is the potential to share dreams; this exists as probability only. It will be in the distant future; that humanity will be more adept at this ability as we evolve it. Right now; we are the pioneers and it's not an easy feat for even adapt dreamers to achieve consistently the non-linear and non-localized nature of dream reality is not the same as our physical reality and we cannot expect what we do physically to also do in a dream; the behavior of these two states are totally opposite.

Optimal mutual dreaming conditions occur when a synchronicity happens: Both dreamers are in the dreamstate at the same time with the same level of lucid awareness. Both dreamers actively remember their dreams. Both dreamers know each other and can confirm details shortly after waking up.

What do you think will happen if dreamer 1 is lucid in an REM state and dreamer 2 is unconscious in NREM in deep sleep delta... what chances of a shared dream exist there?

None.

It's nearly impossible because of our ignorance regarding the dreamstate and the massive problem of dream illiteracy that this planet suffers from. Yet if you are lucky enough to have friends with at least some measure of interest in lucid dreaming; or dreaming in general the chances of this encounter increase greatly from those friends who simply don't.

Amazing.

Originally Posted by YAD

Not everything that exists is easy to prove from a scientific standpoint. And even when it has been proven; the evidence is usually rejected if it's paranormal. The Monroe Institute has proven that people can meet up in non-physical reality; they have proven this to US Military personal. Their research helped spawn project Stargate.

In my experiences; I have shared dreams with 12 people during my life. In that time, I have talked with friends who have shared dreams with family members. I had the uncanny experience to be at my work standing by three girls who started talking about a dream and watched enjoying the group coming to a realization that they had all dreamed the same dream.

What made it fascinating was the fact that the dream had some very exaggerated dream symbolism making the details extremely subjectively rare; nearly impossible that all three could have dreamed the same symbolism as well.

Why is this not so common? Oh well maybe because 99.999% of the planet is dream illiterate? People treat dreams as being nonsensical, meaningless tripe. And when they do... actually do take an interest in dreaming; they try to use dreaming to satisfy fantasies and desires.

Finally, this is something I have observed countless times: in mutual encounters, if the other person lacks any cognitive function and awareness they appear as if in a catatonic zombie like state where they are unable to respond to questions. My friend and I called it "sleeper's grog" slang for being void of left-brain function and awareness. Vegetative at best.

When someone finally snaps out of it, gives you attention the potential for a mutual experience increases but they can still personify the dreamstate meaning overlay you being there with another dream. If that personification doesn't happen, they still have to deal with waking induced amnesia when dream memory collapses. If they lack dream recall then the likelihood of remembering the encounter consciously is reduced.

How do I know this? In the small group of people I managed to break through all these challenges; there were countless other attempts that failed miserably due to the difficult challenges of dream illiteracy, lack of awareness, personification and memory on their part. I have told people information that they told me in a potentially mutual dream that did have relevance to their lives; but they don't even remember the dream encounter.

There is the potential to share dreams; this exists as probability only. It will be in the distant future; that humanity will be more adept at this ability as we evolve it. Right now; we are the pioneers and it's not an easy feat for even adapt dreamers to achieve consistently the non-linear and non-localized nature of dream reality is not the same as our physical reality and we cannot expect what we do physically to also do in a dream; the behavior of these two states are totally opposite.

Optimal mutual dreaming conditions occur when a synchronicity happens: Both dreamers are in the dreamstate at the same time with the same level of lucid awareness. Both dreamers actively remember their dreams. Both dreamers know each other and can confirm details shortly after waking up.

What do you think will happen if dreamer 1 is lucid in an REM state and dreamer 2 is unconscious in NREM in deep sleep delta... what chances of a shared dream exist there?

None.

It's nearly impossible because of our ignorance regarding the dreamstate and the massive problem of dream illiteracy that this planet suffers from. Yet if you are lucky enough to have friends with at least some measure of interest in lucid dreaming; or dreaming in general the chances of this encounter increase greatly from those friends who simply don't.

Amazing.

I want to hear more about your experiences with shared dreaming.

I have never experienced a catatonic state from other dreamers in shared dreams. This is interesting.

It's true that a lot of the populace is "dream illiterate," and when lucid dreaming is discovered, it's often used just for fun, and not anything more.

Many people are close minded to the idea of shared dreaming. Once people become more open minded, it will become as common an idea as lucid dreaming.

What do you mean by "personification?"

It makes sense that optimal shared dreaming conditions have all dreamers asleep in the same state at the same time. In my experience, this is unnecessary.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I want to hear more about your experiences with shared dreaming.

I discovered the potential when I was a teenager back in 1988 when I was actively going OBE and Lucid Dreaming. It was chance that I bumped into a friend I knew so decided to hang out and talk with him. It was this event that later turned out to be a shared dream. In the morning I called this person and we both verified setting, location, conversation filling in the blanks. Both of us where in shock, we had just realized mutually that something spectular, impossible, and amazing had happened between us. We shared a dream.

Many more followed with this person and other people. For how active I have been in the LDE the results however are very low. Enough to fully satisfy my curiosity and knowledge that we can share dreams in the most literal of sense. This is not a wishful belief or delusion; it is very real.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I have never experienced a catatonic state from other dreamers in shared dreams. This is interesting.

This may be how I filter in the data from the dream and render it. In certain shared dreams, my above meantioned friend would be found in this state. He has reported finding me in that state. When in that state the shared dream is null. If we can get a focused attention or logical response then it seems that awareness and cognitive function helps lock in the shared dream experience.

As teenagers my friend and I called this "Sleeper's Grog" a slang for being dream drunk as that is what it seemed to appear as. In my quest to share more dreams, I encountered nearly everyone I cared for and knew in some level of this catatonic like state wandering aimlessly about.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

IWhat do you mean by "personification?"

In the context of a mutual dream; when certain emotional responses to the data cause the other participant to react they can blow up a dream bubble that personifies the mutual exchange; so that to me they appear catatonic again; and to them... they are fulfilling a fantasy or desire or fear. Think of it as a natural fear response mechanism.

We have confirmed this in several exchanges when my friend for example looses control and dreams something totally different right in front of me; I still see them normally but the person drops back into sleeper's grog and personifies the information with their own filter so too speak.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

IIt makes sense that optimal shared dreaming conditions have all dreamers asleep in the same state at the same time. In my experience, this is unnecessary.

I will have to agree, there is a non-linear problem that also exists. Time is not the same time during dreamtime as it can be anytime. It is not following the chronological order of our physical life. Precognitive dreams and an excellent example of how dreams exist outside our physical space/time continuum.

Now I have a different view of how it works. It seems to me like everyone has their own Inner World, a giant Dream Bubble in which one can experience a land of infinite vastness, but no sentient being unless you invite them in (I hope!). All these personal dream bubbles, or Inner Worlds are floating in a infinitely huge Dream-Multiverse.

We can go into each others' Inner Worlds, or we can meet outside in the Dreamworld Multiverse "public" area.

I think it works but some invisible energy that we cannot detect with our scientific instruments.

Originally Posted by kookyinc

This should be in Beyond Dreaming. I am of the persuasion that shared dreaming is impossible because there is no solid evidence to support it.

Just to say, the same could of been said about lucid dreaming over 40 years ago.
However people still persued it felt they had valied experiences despite being told by the world it was impossible.
Just been reading robert Waggoners books. I feel lucky to of started lucid dreaming in a time where it was seen as "real"
Maybe one day we will see a similar shift for shared dreaming, however maybe not, I have no idea

Originally Posted by YAD

I discovered the potential when I was a teenager back in 1988 when I was actively going OBE and Lucid Dreaming. It was chance that I bumped into a friend I knew so decided to hang out and talk with him. It was this event that later turned out to be a shared dream. In the morning I called this person and we both verified setting, location, conversation filling in the blanks. Both of us where in shock, we had just realized mutually that something spectular, impossible, and amazing had happened between us. We shared a dream.

Many more followed with this person and other people. For how active I have been in the LDE the results however are very low. Enough to fully satisfy my curiosity and knowledge that we can share dreams in the most literal of sense. This is not a wishful belief or delusion; it is very real.


This may be how I filter in the data from the dream and render it. In certain shared dreams, my above meantioned friend would be found in this state. He has reported finding me in that state. When in that state the shared dream is null. If we can get a focused attention or logical response then it seems that awareness and cognitive function helps lock in the shared dream experience.

As teenagers my friend and I called this "Sleeper's Grog" a slang for being dream drunk as that is what it seemed to appear as. In my quest to share more dreams, I encountered nearly everyone I cared for and knew in some level of this catatonic like state wandering aimlessly about.



In the context of a mutual dream; when certain emotional responses to the data cause the other participant to react they can blow up a dream bubble that personifies the mutual exchange; so that to me they appear catatonic again; and to them... they are fulfilling a fantasy or desire or fear. Think of it as a natural fear response mechanism.

We have confirmed this in several exchanges when my friend for example looses control and dreams something totally different right in front of me; I still see them normally but the person drops back into sleeper's grog and personifies the information with their own filter so too speak.




I will have to agree, there is a non-linear problem that also exists. Time is not the same time during dreamtime as it can be anytime. It is not following the chronological order of our physical life. Precognitive dreams and an excellent example of how dreams exist outside our physical space/time continuum.

I have recently discovered the same thing while sharing dreams with my daughter. This 'sleepers grog' The first time I we met we decided to have a meeting place, but when I got there I found she was standing there talking to a group of her friend who were clearly impressed with something she had just done. When I tried talking to her she seemed to only sort of be aware of me - more like she was aware that somebody was there but was not important to her current dream. I looked at her face and it was strange, it shifted and made her look different - so I shook her calling out her name and then she was 'snapped out of it' we then went onto go into a 'cowboy dream' which was pretty fun. When she woke she told me about a dream she was having before she met me, about how she gave something to her friend and all of her friends around her were clearly impressed with what she had done and surrounded her - much like how I found her in the dream.

We all seem to perceive things differently within the dreaming, both on a symbolic level and also in accordance with our skill level. I have heard in the past that people who are dreaming can be found in this catatonic state, like a zombie, but it is also curious to note that Nomad has never seen this before (and neither have I) - both are true and happening, we are just perceiving/'translating' the information in front of us differently for some reason. I would love to gather in of the shared dreamers and experienced lucid dreamers and gather all of this information together to create a working hypothesis of how shared dreaming actually works and what is needed from a person in order to successfully share dreams

For instance, just yesterday I came across a random dreamer (while dreaming) who at first I thought was a DC, then quickly realised he was a real person (and felt kinda embarassed that I assumed he was a DC) he had told me about how he did not like to create portals because it attracted 'unwanted attention' - what do you make of this Nomad? Have you had any problems in the past with negative entities being attracted to your location when creating portals?

I just got to thinking. If Shared dreaming were actually proved scientificly and therefore an accepted occurence, would this therefore prove that the conciousness "leaves" the body? Or could you still explain it away a different way?

Originally Posted by samsailboatsayl

I just got to thinking. If Shared dreaming were actually proved scientificly and therefore an accepted occurence, would this therefore prove that the conciousness "leaves" the body? Or could you still explain it away a different way?

I am 99% sure that this would not be the case. Despite the universal hypothesis which has been around for centuries and is the one common thread through-out most religions (that we have a soul) science would call it something like 'quantum entanglement' to explain shared dreams.

The day that science steps into the boundaries of religion/spiritualism is the day everything will change!

Originally Posted by YAD

There is the potential to share dreams; this exists as probability only. It will be in the distant future; that humanity will be more adept at this ability as we evolve it. Right now; we are the pioneers and it's not an easy feat for even adapt dreamers to achieve consistently the non-linear and non-localized nature of dream reality is not the same as our physical reality and we cannot expect what we do physically to also do in a dream; the behavior of these two states are totally opposite.

I have been practicing my dream control since the age of 4 (now 25) and have success with extreme dream control, time dilation, and shared dreaming. Even after all of the practice that has been put in, I still have little control over the SDs. So far I have 16 confirmed SDs where they sent a secret password to a secret email I only give out in dreams, and yet so far it is all random. I havn't had much luck with targeting individuals and can't do this every time I will it to happen.

So yes, despite all the effort I have put in, SDs are very difficult to make happen on command and there are still a lot of kinks to work out for now.

Back on topic though, what do you guys think about quantum entanglement?

Originally Posted by Mylynes

Even after all of the practice that has been put in, I still have little control over the SDs.

I have 'help' of some kind. I don't even attempt to cause or control it, other than the general choices I make about my interests and values.

Originally Posted by Mylynes

Back on topic though, what do you guys think about quantum entanglement?

We had an extensive argument about this recently on another thread. I eventually agreed that entanglement can in principle correlate an event with a future event. However, I still don't believe this is how premonitions (or shared dreams) work. Having 'slept on it' for a few weeks, I still think the problem of deciphering all the information is too difficult by a vast amount. To use an analogy, the light bouncing around in your room in principle contains information about the rest of the world, and in fact a dream researcher recently proposed that this is how shared dreaming works. But there's no way to extract and reconstruct the signal from all the noise. I think its not possible even in principle. Entanglement has the same problem. I think that people reach for 20th century physics as a possible answer because its difficult to understand, which makes it mysterious and difficult to disprove wild ideas. I think the more a person knows about physics the less plausible it seems though. Maybe entanglement is a small aspect of what's going on, but it doesn't come even remotely close to accounting for the phenomena in my opinion.

There seems to be a process of 'finding' another person in a shared dream. For me its almost entirely a subconscious process, but I think there is a process because sometimes its worked into the early part of the dream.

Be careful people, its rather easy to confuse yourself between reality and dreams. I know a man who drove himself crazy. He was so addicted to lucid dreaming that he eventually couldnt distinguish between tge real world and the dream world... He has told me some awesome stories though, about his adventures. Really fascinating stories.

In lucid dream I know I'm in dream, how could I lose that knowledge? However in normal dream I don't know that I'm dreaming and that could be the moment when I could confuse myself.

Originally Posted by Psionik

In lucid dream I know I'm in dream, how could I lose that knowledge? However in normal dream I don't know that I'm dreaming and that could be the moment when I could confuse myself.

If you do this on a daily basis you gradually develop a need for lucid dreaming. Its like you are addicted to it. I mean you start to realize that you prefer the dream world instead of the real world. This is normal since everyone would prefer a world in which he himself is the creator and can control everything. My point is that if you do this for a long time you may start to confuse your memories between reality and dream and this is not good. Trust me its just not good. How do you think mad people became mad? Maybe some of them were massive fans of lucid dreaming. I am just saying be careful and take it easy with lucid dreams cause once you realize the possibilities, its really hard to let go...

Nope. I don't prefer dreams. Dreams are imagined, I need reality. I like dreaming, but not as replacement...
I would say, I like LD more than normal dreams, I would gladly exchange normal dreams for LD. Control everything in LD??? I would like that. Reality is different. It is hard work to get full control of dream, I manage partial control though. Hey, I'm as normal guy as majority... I don't need any form of long time escapism. LD is more or less as long as normal dream. Nothing wrong with it.
I would take out of body experience over any LD too . Again quite hard to have an addiction. It is hard work to learn it, to learn about your body, how to relaxate it, how to use your mind. How to concentrate... How to separate. I train that for nearly 30 years. But I can't manage many OBEs through week. I managed as much as 10 in week when I was younger... now it is down to 1-5 a month maybe... plus minus Life got more difficult as I got my own family And with it the right concentration got harder to reach.
People fear of very strange things. Mainly things they know nothing about. Learn how to lucidly dream and you will find that your addiction will not form. Maybe you will catch some form of fanaticism... But also knowledge... you will find that many things you are suggesting are not possible. That in reality it is much simpler... and more magical.

Thanks for the inspiring writeup Psionik

Originally Posted by Takeosi

Be careful people, its rather easy to confuse yourself between reality and dreams. I know a man who drove himself crazy. He was so addicted to lucid dreaming that he eventually couldnt distinguish between tge real world and the dream world... He has told me some awesome stories though, about his adventures. Really fascinating stories.

That's interesting, and it makes no sense to me. If someone is into lucid dreaming, how could they get confused between the real world and the dream world?

Lucid means aware. Lucid dreaming means you know you are dreaming. So, in a lucid state, one knows they are in the dream world, and not in the real world, so they are definitely not confused.

If someone is awake, and thinks they might be dreaming, a simple reality check will solve that problem.

Anyway, this idea of lucid dreaming being dangerous is kind of off-topic, and doesn't really have anything to do with how lucid dreaming works.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

That's interesting, and it makes no sense to me. If someone is into lucid dreaming, how could they get confused between the real world and the dream world?

Lucid means aware. Lucid dreaming means you know you are dreaming. So, in a lucid state, one knows they are in the dream world, and not in the real world, so they are definitely not confused.

If someone is awake, and thinks they might be dreaming, a simple reality check will solve that problem.

Anyway, this idea of lucid dreaming being dangerous is kind of off-topic, and doesn't really have anything to do with how lucid dreaming works.

Well thats correct. So if you want to discuss it you can send me a message. I can explain my point of view.

Explain it here please, the more views the better... People who practice LD know, that addiction is quite impossible. People who doesn't know how to do it, or don't do it regularly can have their opinion... But you know, it is very subjective opinion then.
You will always find individuals who wants escape reality, but there is no way to do it through dreaming. They will rather turn to drugs. It is quite inevitable for some people... Sad fact...

Originally Posted by Takeosi

Well thats correct. So if you want to discuss it you can send me a message. I can explain my point of view.

I suggest starting a thread on it.

I found a thread about the dangers of lucid dreaming:

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-dreaming.html