what is best stuff to take to induce lucidity?

[jeenimc]

what is best option (pills herbs etc) to take to attain lucidity (increase awarness)?

[LS-Removed]

Hi Some people on the forum would recommend raisins or jelly beans, but I think an induction substance is a bit far fetched...and very desperate, not to mention lazy. Don't do drugs. Even if you can use certain elicit substances to attain certain altered states, you will lose all ability to control the generated environment, and this completely defeats the object of lucid dreaming. I once took part in a lab study where I was given ketamine and placed in a fMRI scanner. That was a very interesting experience, but nothing like that of lucid dreaming. I'd advise the natural route. I'll add that strong desire and motivation are key components, so perhaps you should consider how strongly you want to attain lucidity. I used to listen to hemi-sync which I found quite effective in helping me to relax whilst still maintaining awareness, but be careful that it doesn't just make you fall asleep. It won't be enough to induce lucidity though on its own.

[ZenVortex]

Food can definitely help with LDs. Some of my best LDs occurred unexpectedly after eating fish and salad for dinner. The bottom line is that lucid dreaming depends ENTIRELY on the presence of various specific neurotransmitters in the brain, regardless of the induction technique. If the neurotransmitters are not present, LDs are not possible no matter how good your technique. It's like having a high powered car. If you don't have any gas in the tank, it ain't going nowhere. There are a lot of psychoactive substances that produce vivid and often lucid dreams, but I agree with Luigi to keep things natural and develop a good induction technique before taking that route. If you want to experiment with something natural, however, many people report LDs after drinking chocolate milk during the night...

[Z a c h]

Yeah all you really need is desire/motivation to have LDs...when you wake up in the middle of the night, remember the dreams you just had, and what was dream like about them...then go back to sleep and as you're drifting off, tell yourself the next time you are dreaming, you will know you're dreaming...then let the thought go and fall asleep as usual... So drugs/herbs/whatever aren't needed. But if you're stuck and none of the induction techniques work for you, magic mushrooms should make it easy...they make you feel like you can do anything...just don't do too many, or they won't let you go to sleep...

[Gwendolyn]

Calea Z is an herb that is known for it's effect on dreams. However, it is expensive, like any other herb, and it doesn't force you to LD. You already have to know how a bit. That's like any other herb or pill. So, if I were you, I'd skip on that stuff unless you can dream already, because though it makes your dreams clearer, it doesn't automatically mean you'll be lucid.

[wombing]

calea zacatechichi is one option....it is not too expensive if bought bulk...however, it tastes HORRIBLE, so be forewarned. i had 3 lucids in a row one night which i drank calea tea. though other nights it has given me significantly more vivid dreams, but no lucids. vitamin B6 has also increased the vividness of my dreams. i recommend learning how to have lucids before using aids (whether chemical or electronic)...it would be very frustrating not to be able to have lucids without a head apparatus or bag of dreamherb... using substances to enhance lucid dreaming is one thing...to need substances is quite another... good luck in your journeys through lucidity, however they come about

[ruinesque]

The bottom line is that lucid dreaming depends ENTIRELY on the presence of various specific neurotransmitters in the brain, regardless of the induction technique. If the neurotransmitters are not present, LDs are not possible no matter how good your technique. It's like having a high powered car. If you don't have any gas in the tank, it ain't going nowhere. [/b] I'm really intrigued by this. I first learned of lucid dreaming through reading an introduction to dreaming by neurobiologist J. Allan Hobson, and I've just finished a chapter of another of his books where he discusses a bit of the "brain mechanics" behind lucid dreaming. However, he does not go into the specific neurotransmitters required for this dual state of brain activation. Where might I read more about this? Curiously, he also states that it is much easier to dream lucidly when one is young (below 40 or preferably 30), and that he himself has pretty much lost the ability (he could LD at will while younger, but now, in his 70s, cannot). I wonder how old LaBerge was when he taught himself to LD at will? Sorry, got a bit off topic... Barbara

[italianmonkey]

may sound silly but time should be a pretty effective substance

[phoenelai]

I've had remarkable results with B6. if I take it for 4 nights most likely one night will produce a lucid dream. Also know that I'm using audio cues as well which helps trigger.

[wasup]

Hard work, motivation, and confidence!

[Rainbow Werewolf]

Does this mean that no matter how skilled you get at LDing, in your 70's you won't be able to? Originally posted by ruinesque Curiously, he also states that it is much easier to dream lucidly when one is young (below 40 or preferably 30), and that he himself has pretty much lost the ability (he could LD at will while younger, but now, in his 70s, cannot). I wonder how old LaBerge was when he taught himself to LD at will? Sorry, got a bit off topic... * Barbara

[ZenVortex]

Age seems to have a major negative effect on LD ability. This is undoubtedly due to the decreasing neurotransmitter levels in the aging brain. That is why I think it can be very helpful to take "psychoactive nutrients" such as fish, salads, B6, B12, Calea Z (don't make a tea, put the stuff into CAPSULES ), choline, DMAE, vinpocetine, phenylalanine, galantamine, huperzine, wormwood, mugwort, and last but not least -- chocolate milk. The nice thing about chocolate milk is that the chocolate contains caffeine and theobromine -- which have a stimulating effect -- and the milk contains tryptophan -- which helps you stay asleep. Thus chocolate milk kills TWO proverbial birds with a single stone. Good technique is only part of the answer. Good "psychonutrition" is equally important. No matter how powerful your car, it ain't goin' nowhere if there's no gas in the tank....

[Torcher]

I've found that extreme states of exhaustion often lead to lucids. Couple this exhaustion with a little coffee before you lie down and you have a recipe for a nuclear LD. I've also used b6, melatonin and Kava in combination with varied success. Never tried Chalea Z, I'd like to. The best LDs I've had have been because I've focused on having them and being prepared for them. What's more, if you DO take something to induce, and if you dont get a lucid, you can rest assured that at least the dreams that you do get are going to be insanely detailed and realistic. Sometimes LDs ruin a dream that could have rocked...like waking up because you get too excited because everything is just too awesome to take in once you realize it's the dreamworld. Anyways...I wouldn't tell people not to try using various natural substances to test the effect they could have on LDs. IMO it's unscientific not to cover all the bases...just stay within reason, have a plan, record the results, and best of luck!

[Umbrella]

I too, am intrigued by what was said about neurotransmitter levels by ZenVortex. What do you base this assumption on? Would you care to explain? BTW, LaBerge must have been around age 35 when he developed the MILD technique, as in EWLD (which was written 1992) he states he developed it "ten years ago", and he was born in 1947 according to the internet (which never lies, obviously). Oh, and to at least contribute something to the topic. Behold, The Lucid Dreaming Pharmacy

[ZenVortex]

Neuroscience research suggests that neurotransmitter levels are depleted during the day and are replenished during sleep. This means that during the early part of the night, the neurotransmitter levels are too low for LDs. That is why LDs tend to occur in the latter part of the night, when the neurotransmitters are replenished or closer to the daytime level. This theory also explains why females and young people are usually better at lucid dreaming than males, because they tend to do less analytical thinking than males hence their neurotransmitter levels are not so depleted at the end of the day. Same goes for young people versus older people, because neurotransmitter levels decline with age. Based on these insights, I believe it is important to do whatever is necessary to make sure your neurotransmitter levels are high enough during the night to enable lucid dreaming. You may be doing everything right: RCs, MILD, VILD, or whatever induction technique you are using, but if your neurotransmitter levels are too low, you won't have a LD. Start with the simple stuff, like eating fish, salads, fruit before going to bed. Then try taking B6 or a B complex during WBTB. The next stage is taking things that seriously stimulate neurotransmitter production such as caffeine and the other substances I mentioned. The goal is to partially stimulate the sleeping brain without fully waking it up into the outer world. Hope this helps.

[Umbrella]

That is very interesting indeed. Unfortunately I don't know a thing neuroscience, but if I understand correctly, neurotransmitters affect your ability to analyze things, and (this, i'm deducing myself) therefore, your ability to recognize the dream state. Did I get any part of that right? ^.^

[Rainbow Werewolf]

In Kingdom Hospital, they mention the use of a drug called Oneirine to improve telephatic and precognitive powers as well as lucid dreaming. I am not sure how it's spelled, but the subtitles are in French and mention it as d'Oneirine so I think the English spelling may be the same. Though the stuff may just be BS.

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by ZenVortex+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenVortex)</div> The nice thing about chocolate milk is that the chocolate contains caffeine and theobromine .[/b] Very little! Placebo effect at best. <!--QuoteBegin-ZenVortex This theory also explains why females and young people are usually better at lucid dreaming than males, because they tend to do less analytical thinking than males hence their neurotransmitter levels are not so depleted at the end of the day. . Whatever! Happy Dreaming, Moonbeam

[think green]

Milk, bananas and turkey. High in l-tryptophan. I strongly disagree with the person who recommends a simple salad unless it is chicken or tuna. Raw veggies are more difficult to digest and will keep you up. A glass of milk and a turkey sandwich is the bomb!

[alberthendriks]

People who want to do drugs probably will. I was one of them, I smoked weed. For three years I had a lot of fun, and then the nightmare started. I quite the drugs but it was too late and I was taken into mental hospital for three months, and had to quit my study. For one year I lay on the couch waching tv at my parents' house. Then I did some community work, and after 4 years I was totally the old me and started studying again. Of the many weed users I was one of the unlucky, but it could happen to you. Don't do drugs.

[ruinesque]

This theory also explains why females and young people are usually better at lucid dreaming than males, because they tend to do less analytical thinking than males hence their neurotransmitter levels are not so depleted at the end of the day.[/b] Woah. Your source? So, what are we to make of the fact that LaBerge - and so many others of the lucid dreaming pioneers in whose footsteps he followed - are men? And scientists, no less! Also, how does this comport with the other reports that an active mind during the day (i.e. studying, learning in general) carries over into greater "rational" thinking (i.e. ability to remember to recognize dreaming) during the day?

[ShYne123]

I just bout 4oz's of calea Z. 2in bud, and 2 on liquid tinture, ill tell you how it works.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Originally posted by alberthendriks People who want to do drugs probably will. I was one of them, I smoked weed. For three years I had a lot of fun, and then the nightmare started. I quite the drugs but it was too late and I was taken into mental hospital for three months, and had to quit my study. For one year I lay on the couch waching tv at my parents' house. Then I did some community work, and after 4 years I was totally the old me and started studying again. Of the many weed users I was one of the unlucky, but it could happen to you. Don't do drugs. So....you started smoking weed, and then...three years later...you started having nightmares? I'm not sure I follow you.

[alberthendriks]

Originally posted by Oneironaut So....you started smoking weed, and then...three years later...you started having nightmares? I'm not sure I follow you. No, the nightmare referred to my real life. All of a sudden, I was hearing voices and I was paranoia, I had to be taken into a mental hospital. It was all because of the weed.

[Torcher]

I had bad things happen to my nervous system and my thought processes because of caffeine. Because of weed? Bummer. Xanax for the win.