Thread: Learning to dream. How to start?

Hello friends,

thank you for welcoming me, I'm new here and this is my first post. I'm really looking forward to share my experiences with you and learn from yours.
I've never had a lucid dream, but I'd love to have one. Since a few days I'm reading about it an also tried it, but yet without success.

Since I'm new, I have a few questions:

• I have a really really deep sleep at night. I'm not lying when I say that I never wake up at night. Furthermore, I almost never remember my dreams, maybe one time a month or even less. Regarding to what I have read so far, this is counterproductive when it comes to lucid dreaming, right? So do you have some suggestions for me? I really think my main problem is that I'm not aware I'm in a dream and -even worse- that I don't remember them.
  
  
• Choosing the right technique: Regarding to what i've read so far about WILD, DILD, WBTB and MILD in some of the torturials in this forum and also in "Mancon's guide to choosing a technique", I'm not quite sure what would be the right technique to me.
  Mancon says, WILD is great for you if you wake up randomly in the middle of the night. So this doesn't work for me.
  That's why I thought, DILD might be a great idea. But since I'm not aware in my dreams and I never remember them, this is also difficult.
  So I tried MILD because you prepare yourself while you're still awake. One time I really had a strange experience with it, but I think it was no lucid dream. I was really relaxed and repeating my mantra, when suddenly a crazy visualization came into my mind (something with some guys playing football with a huge watermelon). I tried focusing on this and not loosing it, but I made those RCs and noticed that I was definitely still awake. So I think it was just my awake imagination and not a dream.
  
  
• Isn't it exhausting waking up at night many times and having such vivid dreams? I mean, do you feel rested after a night full of flying, traveling to other planets and so on?

Thank you very much for your help! I really appreciate it!
Guayabin

At first you need to work on dream recall. Start with WBTB (wake back to bed) before sleep tell yourself that you will wake up after 5-6 hours of sleep (or set up alarm). After wake up you will need to awake yourself a bit, take a walk or go to toilet. If you remember somethink from that 6 hours write it in dream journal (dont worry if you cant remember anythink) now just back to Sleep (of course you can mix it with autosuggestion by telling yourself "now ill remember much more").
After all try to write everythink that you remember in dream journal
Sorry for bad english but i hope that will be helpful

Hi Guayabin, and welcome!

I'll try to be as short as possible...

Originally Posted by Guayabin

I have a really really deep sleep at night. I'm not lying when I say that I never wake up at night. Furthermore, I almost never remember my dreams, maybe one time a month or even less. Regarding to what I have read so far, this is counterproductive when it comes to lucid dreaming, right? So do you have some suggestions for me? I really think my main problem is that I'm not aware I'm in a dream and -even worse- that I don't remember them.

Dream recall and awareness are indeed the key things you need for lucid dreaming... About "never waking up at night" - this simply can't be true if you have a normal sleep routine (7-9 hours in more or less consistent times). The issue is not noticing and/or remembering these micro-awakenings (that's how they're called). There are ways to practice this! More on this later...

About dream recall - this is very important for LDs for three reasons - to know your dreams and what to expect in order to ID them; to be more aware and have LDing on your mind; to not forget an LD once you manage to have one.

Here are about all the ways to increase recall (from the easier to the harder to practice):

1. most importantly - have a consistent sleep routine
2. record / write write your dreams (dream journaling). If you don't have time at least memorizing the dream until you can record it. Even if there is virtually nothing to write, do it anyway! The most important thing is to be consistent about it.
3. try to get into the habit of taking a moment to recall your dreams as you wake up. Try to "milk" your brain for details and organize the plot before you start recording it in the DJ (if you have a difficulty recalling it). Being detailed is important, especially when you don't remember much, since this exercise tells your brain to remember dreams next time.
4. consider including "I'll remember my dreams" in your mantras (mantras are things you say to yourself during the day and while falling asleep)
5. if you remember fragments you can try to go through your dream signs (mentally) - one of them might have been in a dream and might jog some lost memory
6. having more natural awakenings will also help - but it's something that might require separate practice.
7. being more aware / lucid in a dream makes it more memorable - but again it's something that might require separate practice too.

Remember that dream recall fluctuates naturally and usually on a daily basis. Also remember - as with anything lucid dreaming related - it's better to be persistent and take baby steps and stay positive, then to over do it and get anxiety and loose motivation to continue. So don't try all these steps at once. Start with the first one, then add the second, and so on.

Choosing the right technique: Regarding to what i've read so far about WILD, DILD, WBTB and MILD in some of the torturials in this forum and also in "Mancon's guide to choosing a technique", I'm not quite sure what would be the right technique to me.
Mancon says, WILD is great for you if you wake up randomly in the middle of the night. So this doesn't work for me.
That's why I thought, DILD might be a great idea. But since I'm not aware in my dreams and I never remember them, this is also difficult.

So I'll try to clear the confusion out somewhat:
DILD = a situation of becoming aware and lucid in a dream
WILD = a situation when you carry your awareness from waking life directly into the dream

Techniques to achieve WILD = what I call "WILD class methods": regular WILD, FILD, DEILD, SSILD, VILD, IILD, CANWILD, some variations of MILD and HILD. All of these names describe very similar methods. You basically go to sleep normally, while focusing on an anchor to keep you lucid. The differences between all of these are only two things - awareness / sleepiness balance required to pull it off, and what anchor you use. WILDs are kinda more advanced, so I'll skip more details. If you like I'll explain more about these in a later post.

Techniques to achieve DILD:
1. Practicing the basics: dream recall, awareness, reality checks...
2. daytime MILD, daytime HILD, daytime IILD (so basically setting an intention / doing (self-)suggestion / incubating an idea during the day).
3. doing a "WILD class methods" - even if it's unsuccessful and you loose awareness while falling asleep, it still tends to increase dream vividness and awareness, so you'll be more likely to be suddenly become later during the dream.

Other: micro-awakenings and WBTB:
WBTB is a technique of waking up somewhere during you sleep cycle (usually after at least 4 hours) and at least sitting up (or standing, or walking, or whatever you want apart from laying) for a certain amount of time before going back to sleep.
WBTB can on its own increase dream vividness and awareness in dreams after you go back to sleep. It's also used together with "WILD class methods", because this makes these methods much more effective. Depending on the specific "WILD class method", a WBTB can be anywhere between 1 minute and 1.5 hours.
micro-awakenings - already told you what these are. Noticing them is a great way to start a WBTB, because then nothing disturbs your sleep and you wake up naturally.

Too sum up, I would suggest the following:

1. increase recall (already listed how)

2. increase awareness and question reality - start doing RCs here-and-there throughout the day and reality question reality. You can try focusing on dream signs (common themes in your dreams). Have a few RCs on your usual retainer. Do at least two RCs to lessen the chances to miss something. Also, practice awareness here-and-there throughout the day by taking a moment to listen, look and feel things around you. Ask yourself things like "Why am I here?" "Where am I?" "How did I get here?" etc.

3. if you want, you can add a method or two. Start by trying just plain WBTB, or the regular WILD, or DEILD. During the day you can do MILD. Out of the WILD class methods - chose one and stick to it until you get familiar with it... Don't try to "over achieve" and do a bunch of different WILDs one after the other... Practice one of them at a time. (if you want)

So I tried MILD because you prepare yourself while you're still awake. One time I really had a strange experience with it, but I think it was no lucid dream. I was really relaxed and repeating my mantra, when suddenly a crazy visualization came into my mind (something with some guys playing football with a huge watermelon). I tried focusing on this and not loosing it, but I made those RCs and noticed that I was definitely still awake. So I think it was just my awake imagination and not a dream.

Sound like you did the WILD variation of MILD (aka falling asleep with a mantra / intention). It also sound as if it was working, up until a certain point.

When a person falls a sleep, the following things might happen:
1. losing awareness (what we try to avoid by doing a WILD class method)
2. REM atonia - the body getting relaxed until we don't feel it unless we try to
3. HH (hypnogogic hallucinations) - imaginary sensory input, like seeing lights, hearing sounds, feeling the sensation of floating, hovering or falling, feeling vibrations, etc.
4. HI (hypnogogic imagery) - also known as pre-dream, these are short dream scenes that sometimes appear before normal dreams. They don't feel as real - it's like you're watching them instead of being present there.
5. dreams - you know, actual dream, feels real, 100% of you is present there.

You said "suddenly a crazy visualization came into my mind" - this is great, you made it pretty far, since it sounds like an HI... The thing is that in order to be able to stay asleep you should just watch the HI and stay passive. Only become active once the actual dream starts (it feels real, unlike the HI, which is shorter and it's like you watch it).

If next time you encounter REM atonia and / or HH too, just ignore them (let them just play in the background, don't focus on them or try to interfere). In all the WILD class methods, the process is like this:
relax -> start falling asleep normally -> start focusing on maintaining awareness and on the anchor (and be passive for all the other stuff) -> when the scene feels like an actual dream start being active (start by reaffirming your awareness and get involved with the scene).

Isn't it exhausting waking up at night many times and having such vivid dreams? I mean, do you feel rested after a night full of flying, traveling to other planets and so on?

No exhaustion as long you get your normal amount of sleep (7-9 hours for most people)!
One thing that can be a problem is waking yourself using alarms - these tend, at least for me, to create some exhaustion / headaches - which is why I prefer focusing on spoting micro-awakenings, or use other methods to wake up at night (e.g. drink too much / too little to induce the need to pee / drink, ask a partner to wake you up, etc.). Custom alarms are better than the default ones but still create some "exhaustion" (at least for me).
Also, some dreams might be confusing (for example a chain of false awakenings) - but once you wake up for real, everything should become clear...

Well, these are many questions but I'll do my best...

Originally Posted by Guayabin

I have a really really deep sleep at night. I'm not lying when I say that I never wake up at night.

We all wake up after each sleep cycle... so about 4-5 times per night, these awakenings can be only for a second and much are unnoticed. When you start paying more attention to your dreams you will become more aware of these, its all about intention.

Originally Posted by Guayabin

I almost never remember my dreams, maybe one time a month or even less. Regarding to what I have read so far, this is counterproductive when it comes to lucid dreaming, right? So do you have some suggestions for me?

That is not a good rate of recall, however, recall can be drastically improved in just a few days... most people don't remember their dreams because they simple don't give them any value or put any effort towards remembering them. Buy a notebook and write the date before sleeping, recall any key words of your dreams during the night and write them fully once you wake up. Also saying a mantra like "I remember my dreams clearly and write them on my notebook" can help.

This is probably the most essential thing for lucid dreaming... aim for remembering at least one dream per night, this might sound like a lot but it really isn't that hard.

Originally Posted by Guayabin

Choosing the right technique: Regarding to what i've read so far about WILD, DILD, WBTB and MILD in some of the torturials in this forum and also in "Mancon's guide to choosing a technique", I'm not quite sure what would be the right technique to me.

We can all say something different, you're the only one who can find out which one works best for you... i'll give you my two cents though.

WILD is awesome but also very challenging, starting out with this as your LD technique can become frustrating... I think it is important to have the 1st LD as fast as possible so you're more encouraged and excited about it. WILD is awesome, by all means practice it... but I wouldn't rely on it at first.

Regular DILD is probably the technique that requires the least effort, you just have to do your RCs and maybe repeat a mantra during the night. The problem with this technique is that you can't really control when you want to LD, its more volatile in that sense. The good thing is that you don't need to wake up at night or do much effort.

MILD is nice, and yes... you start working on it while awake but you also need to wake up at night. You also need a decent dream recall so it might be a little hard for you these first days, and also requires waking up after some hours of sleep. Im not sure if you are willing to do this.

WBTB is good for boosting any technique, the success rate improves a lot generally. You have to do the effort as well though.

So... I would do my RCs, work on my dream journal, say one or two mantras with a lot of intention before sleeping and maybe waking up (with an alarm if this works better for you) some days to try WBTB. The main ingredient is intention... so read about LD, think about LD, get excited about LD, breathe LD! haha

Originally Posted by Guayabin

Isn't it exhausting waking up at night many times and having such vivid dreams? I mean, do you feel rested after a night full of flying, traveling to other planets and so on?

Not really... it can be if you get too excited or frustrated and just become unable to sleep for some hours, but otherwise its pretty normal. REM sleep is not for resting, actually your brain can be more active than while awake in this phase of sleep. You still go through all the sleep phases so you rest in these as you would normally.

I would put it this way: LD won't damage your sleep or rest, but your sleep habits can definitely damage your LD.

If you don't get enough sleep LD becomes much more harder, usually the last 1 or 2 REM periods are the golden time for LD. It depends from person to person but usually you would need at least 7 hours to maximize your chances!

Hope it helps
JP

I agree with jzinser. We all wake up at the end of each cycle even just to readjust our body position before going back to sleep. We also all dream. The fact that you don't recall either is likely because you've just never tried to.

As your recall increases you'll remember the mirco awakenings as well.

Thank you all so much for your replies! This really helped me a lot! I'm sure with this knowledge I'm way better prepared to LD than before. So I will definitely work on my ability of dream recall and practice WBTB more.
Thanks for your help, I'm already looking forward to my first LD.

A whole heap of great information has already been posted but I would like to add a little. Regarding your low dream recall, I was in the exact same situation as you when I started my LD journey, remembering dreams only every few weeks or even just once a month or so. Even just a few months ago after a long break I was back down to similar levels. The secret to achieving good dream recall is to consistently and mindfully focus on remembering your dreams. Before you go too bed, remind yourself that you WILL remember your dreams. Write in your DJ, physical or digital, every single day, no matter what. You didn't remember anything? Doesn't matter, write information about your sleep and reaffirm to yourself to remember your dreams. This vigilant, consistent approach takes effort to form the habit but it makes your brain start paying attention to your dreams. Doing this I improved my recall from ~1 a week to 2 full dreams and 1 fragment a night in just one month, so you can totally do it too.
Good luck with your dreaming journey! If you put in the effort and really strive for and 'dream' (sorry for that) of success you will become a great lucid dreamer. Now, off to bed!