Thread: Can I do drugs and yet still be pretty consistent with my Lucid Dreaming Journey?

I just want to know if it could be possible overall (: like if I could live a life style of lucid dreaming frequently yet being able to do drugs while awake.

Any thoughts?

Obviously it depends on what type of drug. If we're talking cannabis, this drug inhibits REM sleep, which makes it difficult to lucid dream, not to mention the clear, aware state of mind required to become a good lucid dreamer, and weed doesn't exactly help with that, to say the least. If we're talking hard, illegal drugs, then I'm not certain but considering the damaging effects those drugs have on the brain and health, I do believe they would be detrimental to the skill of lucid dreaming. Perhaps there have been studies done about the combination of hard drugs and lucid dreaming, I doubt it but you can try looking it up.

Uhh, Im going to go ahead and say no for this one man. I've tried that, and honestly, doing drugs while trying to Lucid Dream is a complete mess. I mean, as far as nootropics, you should be good, but for the illegal stuff nah. It messes up your focus and I know weed and Lsd made my dreams go crazy. Then again, thats just my experience and I'm not everyone soooo. Treasure your brain though man, thats what gives you dreams. If you mess your brain up you mess your dreams up in a way too im sure.

Originally Posted by OneUp

Uhh, Im going to go ahead and say no for this one man. I've tried that, and honestly, doing drugs while trying to Lucid Dream is a complete mess. I mean, as far as nootropics, you should be good, but for the illegal stuff nah. It messes up your focus and I know weed and Lsd made my dreams go crazy. Then again, thats just my experience and I'm not everyone soooo. Treasure your brain though man, thats what gives you dreams. If you mess your brain up you mess your dreams up in a way too im sure.

There's no evidence LSD causes any brain damage, probably you had issues simply because it took minor psychological probblems out of yor unconscious.
I read that shamans, which takes ayahuasca and magic mushrooms on a weekly basis, also can achieve lucid dreams when they want.

Btw I've no experience with these drugs, this is just my opinion.
And people seriously, illegal/legal means nothing in terms of health (if you really know what substance you have in your hands).

Originally Posted by Synergeon

There's no evidence LSD causes any brain damage, probably you had issues simply because it took minor psychological probblems out of yor unconscious.
I read that shamans, which takes ayahuasca and magic mushrooms on a weekly basis, also can achieve lucid dreams when they want.

Btw I've no experience with these drugs, this is just my opinion.
And people seriously, illegal/legal means nothing in terms of health (if you really know what substance you have in your hands).

Oh well good for you because I've had real experience with LSD, and it messes with the way you think. Reading texts about ancient shamans and taking drugs yourself are two totally different things. For me, LSD made me act really weird and strange. I would make people laugh with all of the outrageous things I said. It dramatically changed my way of thinking. I felt good nonetheless, but people said I was acting retarded and stupid. It is a psychedelic, it messes with your brain. That's why psychosis is one of LSD's side effects, be it rare or not. That is not a "minor" psychological problem, it can ruin your life.

As for Dthoughts, we all react differently according to our brain chemistry. I'm just warning you guys. Stay safe.

Originally Posted by OneUp

Oh well good for you because I've had real experience with LSD, and it messes with the way you think. Reading texts about ancient shamans and taking drugs yourself are two totally different things. For me, LSD made me act really weird and strange. I would make people laugh with all of the outrageous things I said. It dramatically changed my way of thinking. I felt good nonetheless, but people said I was acting retarded and stupid. It is a psychedelic, it messes with your brain. That's why psychosis is one of LSD's side effects, be it rare or not. That is not a "minor" psychological problem, it can ruin your life.

As for Dthoughts, we all react differently according to our brain chemistry. I'm just warning you guys. Stay safe.

What I known is that LSD can unmask psychosis, not be their cause.
Btw I agree with you that as an unexperienced my words have just relative validity.

Originally Posted by Synergeon

What I known is that LSD can unmask psychosis, not be their cause.
Btw I agree with you that as an unexperienced my words have just relative validity.

True, but if you have a bad trip and you don't know how to handle it(most people don't) it can mess you up for life. People have killed themselves over bad trips.

Originally Posted by OneUp

Oh well good for you because I've had real experience with LSD, and it messes with the way you think. Reading texts about ancient shamans and taking drugs yourself are two totally different things. For me, LSD made me act really weird and strange. I would make people laugh with all of the outrageous things I said. It dramatically changed my way of thinking. I felt good nonetheless, but people said I was acting retarded and stupid. It is a psychedelic, it messes with your brain. That's why psychosis is one of LSD's side effects, be it rare or not. That is not a "minor" psychological problem, it can ruin your life.

As for Dthoughts, we all react differently according to our brain chemistry. I'm just warning you guys. Stay safe.

I think you were with some bad sitters if they were telling you you were acting retarded and stupid. that can be very intense while tripping.
Using drugs before going to sleep will generally decrease your dream recall. But it's still very possible to have lucid dreams if you take it in moderation. I like to take something every now and then but when i'm sober my dream recall is perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by Moeemoee

I think you were with some bad sitters if they were telling you you were acting retarded and stupid. that can be very intense while tripping.
Using drugs before going to sleep will generally decrease your dream recall. But it's still very possible to have lucid dreams if you take it in moderation. I like to take something every now and then but when i'm sober my dream recall is perfectly fine.

No they are my best friends. There comes a time whenever one of us goes too far or acts to weird that we let each other know lmao. I know it sounds odd, but thats how it is. I think my sitters were amazing considering I tripped on 2 tabs once at my friends house while his parents were home. Whenever I fell asleep at the end of a trip, I would obviously still dream, but the dreams were crazy. For instance, in one dream I was in a house and I was just walking through it and all of a sudden my vision started changing from red to blue to green and to every other color of the rainbow. Weird stuff like that and other things that didn't even make sense.

Simply look at it like doing a math test.

Can you do a math test while taking drugs? Yes.

Would taking drugs before a math test make much sense? Probably not, if you care about getting a good score.

Would you likely score higher on a math test sober. Definitely, yes.

Lucid dreaming is just like that.

Originally Posted by sivason

Simply look at it like doing a math test.

Can you do a math test while taking drugs? Yes.

Would taking drugs before a math test make much sense? Probably not, if you care about getting a good score.

Would you likely score higher on a math test sober. Definitely, yes.

Lucid dreaming is just like that.

Sorry but that's not always the best comparison Psychedelics in problem-solving experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I always get lucid dreams after dosing LSD and a little Ketamine.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I always get lucid dreams after dosing LSD and a little Ketamine.

Yes, and then you go to sleep.

Originally Posted by IHadADreamWhere

I just want to know if it could be possible overall (: like if I could live a life style of lucid dreaming frequently yet being able to do drugs while awake.

Any thoughts?

If you're lumping together "drugs" like this without making clear differentiations between distinct substances, then you probably shouldn't "do" them at all without undertaking a lot more research.

That said, here's some suggestions about several different drugs I'm familiar with, either personally or anecdotally, and their likely effects on dreaming:

Caffeine: Can occasionally aid lucid attempts when taken during WBTB, but unreliable as a trigger and diminishes sleep quality.
Nicotine: Supposedly if you go to sleep wearing a patch this can have interesting effect on dreams, but makes it very hard to fall asleep and diminishes sleep quality. I doubt smoking/vaping would have much effect on dreams either way.
Alcohol: Suppresses REM if taken in sufficient quantities before bedtime, sometimes leading to a rebound effect later in the night. (It can also diminish sleep quality, and you need to make sure to drink lots of water to rehydrate.) This is the only drug I use on a regular basis and it hasn't interfered with my dream practice; however for obvious reasons I would not go so far as recommend it to others because of the potential for physical harm and/or abuse.
Kava kava: Supposedly aids dream vividness but I haven't experienced this; doesn't seem to interfere with dreaming, though I wasn't sure if my recall was up to its usual standard afterward.
Kratom: No observed effect on dreaming; certainly didn't help but didn't seem to harm it at low doses either.
Marijuana: Longterm users report detrimental effects on dream recall; probably not worth the risk if LDing is important to you.
LSD: Keeps the user awake for unusually long periods of time, so I can't imagine it would be helpful to your dream practice; IMHO lucid dreams are a lot more interesting and satisfying than LSD trips anyway.
Opium: Never tried opiates myself part from vicodin or codeine, which I disliked, but recently read an interesting book called Opium Fiend by Steven Martin (2012) about old-school opium smoking. It sounded like heavy use replaced ordinary dreams with something more like an imaginative trance state, so probably not helpful for lucid dreaming. Definitely not recommended regular use because of the potential for physical addiction of the worst kind.

When I was in my early 20's LSD was very common and sold all over the place. Most of my friends (and I) took large amounts. I NEVER remembered a dream on LSD, just endless rushing and twisting patterns. No dreams at all. As far as the link to 'Problem Solving and psychedelics' those were low doses and the accomplishments are all creative ideas. The truth is 250 mcg of LSD (enough to fully hallucinate) can make it hard to even use the restroom properly, much less solve any problems.

Lucid dreaming is not about creative thinking, it is serious focus and awareness, which is kind of the opposite of what drugs do.

I don't do drugs but I would venture to guess that anything that interferes with your baseline waking level of conscious awareness will be counterproductive to lucid dreaming. Furthermore, taking something that distorts your perception of reality and waking life would make it harder to distinguish dreams from reality.

I'm not advocating drug use. It's just not on my list as things that necessarily inhibit lucid dreams. I think habitual patterns such as habitual television,gaming are far more detrimental to lucid dreaming than the occasional drug use. I'm just stating that in my experience that it can actually go both ways. There are nootropic drugs which have been proven to be helpful but I guess we are talking about the regular recreational drugs here. Which I think brings in an interesting dimension to the topic of drug-use and lucid dreams.

I want to talk to you guys about Kratom. I've been using it to induce a trance-like state. Sometimes it induces dreams while sitting still for about 5 minutes. The infameous opoid-nod which is capable of actually producing lucid dreams during the drugstate. I feel like deliriants such as Datura might.. And it's a big guess.. be helpful in training the mind when used with proper intent of bringing in lucid awarenss in tropical states of mind.

I have been using Kratom as practice because I find that the symptons are those of WILDs. Which is an interesting state to be in of itself. But for actual lucid dreaming I feel like this is training wheels for the actual moment of WILDing. I haven't used it inactual WBTB but it might be useful. I will do it in the future. It does help in gaining more rest sleeping with kratom. That might indirectly affect lucid dreaming.

Originally Posted by Nfri

Yes, and then you go to sleep.

Let me make clear, I have had success doing anywhere from 100-250mcgs taken in the afternoon. Just after taking a light meal. Then I go around my day like normal. Just being more into music and talking more expressively. Taken this way it notably increases mental ability. I have no trouble finding the bathroom. It gets troubling finding a sense of self over a mg (which i done only once. will do it again when i feel ready. for those who know what it's like) but I feel that's an awareness problem not the drug that causes it.

After the trip is over. A small bump of Ketamine while lying down in the post-lsd brain chemistry triggers Sleep paralysis consistently. This I belief is related to overcoming sleep paralysis and gaining 100% lucidity, i'm not talking memory access that is a different beast but lucidity was for the full duration of sleep and entrance are in the form of WILDs. With the exception of the last 2 hours of sleep after writing down a lucid dream. Those have been non-lucid.

Originally Posted by lunagoddess

I don't do drugs but I would venture to guess that anything that interferes with your baseline waking level of conscious awareness will be counterproductive to lucid dreaming. Furthermore, taking something that distorts your perception of reality and waking life would make it harder to distinguish dreams from reality.

I beg to differ, I'm thinking that baseline consciousness is what is counterproductive to lucid dreaming. Unless you are having lucid dreams right now you need a shift on consciousness. Mind-altering drugs are just one of many ways to shift a consciousness.

Coffee is a mildly powerful mind-altering substance. I tend to argue that drinking coffee every day will diminish chances of lucid dreaming. But once in a blue moon it can actually trigger lucid dreams and it can be very effective.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

I have been using Kratom as practice because I find that the symptons are those of WILDs. Which is an interesting state to be in of itself. But for actual lucid dreaming I feel like this is training wheels for the actual moment of WILDing. I haven't used it inactual WBTB but it might be useful. I will do it in the future. It does help in gaining more rest sleeping with kratom. That might indirectly affect lucid dreaming.

Let me make clear, I have had success doing anywhere from 100-250mcgs taken in the afternoon. Just after taking a light meal. Then I go around my day like normal. Just being more into music and talking more expressively. Taken this way it notably increases mental ability. I have no trouble finding the bathroom. It gets troubling finding a sense of self over a mg (which i done only once. will do it again when i feel ready. for those who know what it's like) but I feel that's an awareness problem not the drug that causes it.

After the trip is over. A small bump of Ketamine while lying down in the post-lsd brain chemistry triggers Sleep paralysis consistently. This I belief is related to overcoming sleep paralysis and gaining 100% lucidity, i'm not talking memory access that is a different beast but lucidity was for the full duration of sleep and entrance are in the form of WILDs. With the exception of the last 2 hours of sleep after writing down a lucid dream. Those have been non-lucid.

The quantities that you are describing sound miniscule. Were you using some kind of insanely concentrated kratom extract? Kratom in its natural state is the leaf of a tree native to Southeast Asia, and the most basic, probably safest way to take it is simply to ingest the dried powdered leaf... but those doses are measured in grams, not milligrams or micrograms. I've tried this a handful of times and wouldn't describe the results as a "trip" in any meaningful sense, just a faint body high and occasional mild euphoria, though I've mainly limited my experimentation to small doses (2-3g) of powdered leaf. The one time I experimented with a larger amount (7g) I found myself motivated to start a painting, which I hadn't done in years, so there might be a connection with creativity. However, I also found that kratom consistently inhibited sleep (as well as appetite) while the effects were active and had no discernible effect on my dreaming.

Pretty much the only drugs I've found that have successfully worked synergistically with lucid dreaming techniques on a regular basis are over-the-counter supplements: Alpha-GPC (a choline variant), piracetam (a nootropic), Bacopa monnieri (an herb), and of course galantamine, though it's not my favorite. I doubt if any of these things would impose a lucid dream on their own—after all they are taken by many people for completely unrelated reasons—but they can slightly improve your chances to get lucid when combined with good motivation and technique. For whatever reason, it appears that the major illegal or recreational drugs don't seem to work nearly as well to boost lucid potential, maybe because they alter brain chemistry too powerfully. Dreaming is a delicate thing.

Originally Posted by Verre

The quantities that you are describing sound miniscule. Were you using some kind of insanely concentrated kratom extract? Kratom in its natural state is the leaf of a tree native to Southeast Asia, and the most basic, probably safest way to take it is simply to ingest the dried powdered leaf... but those doses are measured in grams, not milligrams or micrograms.

He is referring to LSD dosing

He seems to have a misconception of how much is in his tabs, or is not as effected as most.
100mcg= euphoria, vibrations, closed eyes patterns, heavy intoxication
250 mcg= true hallucinations, surfaces breathing with swiglly lines or such on surfaces including the air, intense closed eyes images, some open eyed morphing of objects
1 mg= time meaningless and twisted, fully modified visual field with brazen hallucinations, inability to function on most levels

Originally Posted by IHadADreamWhere

I just want to know if it could be possible overall (: like if I could live a life style of lucid dreaming frequently yet being able to do drugs while awake.

Any thoughts?

no,no,no,no,no....no drugs are a crutch. Your mind should be strong enough to induce not force itself to be driven. If you cannot lucid without drugs you aren't lucid dreaming, your forcing a false reality on yourself. Do it through strength of will and want, or not do it at all.

Salvia Divinorum is a known Oneiroherb. The more powerful extracts of Salvia are admittedly not useful for lucid dreaming. I have personally found out. But the fresh leaves or tinctures is a slower on-set and seems to produce prophetic dreams in numerous users. It's family of the minthe species.
Theoretically Iboga is the king of psychedelics. It's effects are similar to Mushrooms,dmt,salvia,ketamine combined. I predict it is useful for lucid dreaming. It's just a bit too powerful for recreational use. I don't see anyone going out to use it for this purpose when ur not a shaman.

The way I imagine these two herbs are useful is by producing dreams after the trip is over. But what do I know. ^^

Yes, I am less sensitive than most when it comes to conventional psychedelics. Taking 5 tabs of the strongest tabs I have (over 250mcgs each) produced complete detachment with reality. I thought I was Vishnu , had 4 arms and greeted my family and friends into heaven. They all had gifts for me. That was before I completely went bonkers.

My normal dose is 100mcgs. Intoxication is medium. I can do anything I want to do. But you notice that I can "start the trip" by say listening to music and getting really into it while dancing for hours and hours. My breathing is different and I can do natural Pranayama. That's what I call it. The visions are not obstructive or distracting. Things like lying down or closing the eyes will intensify the effects. i'll have more energy for the rest of the day and this helps me stay clear for dreaming.

I've had difficult time with these dosages when combining with other drugs or when sleep deprived. Time can lose it's meaning even in this dose. But I'm generally not intoxicated. Clouds start morphing and breathing and that is usually the moment of intoxication that comes around 200mcgs. That's when the trip starts to really be a trip and heavy thoughts come to surface. I find this is generally not useful for having a more lucid mind-state while dreaming.

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The OP asked for drug use and if they obstruct lucid dreaming. He didn't specify what drugs he meant. My mentions are not recreational drugs. So probably not what the OP had in mind but I thought it's interesting.

Kratom is fairly recreational but I find it a very useful visionary plant. Unfortunately it makes me sick but my dosage is 5-15grams. When lying down or just sitting there will always be closed eye visions and a sense of euphoria. The visions are dreamlike and somehow useful to me to uncover my subconscious and doing energy work. i.e. traveling through my root or feeling energy in the room. When a higher dose is taken after an abstinence. For example the first time I took kratom I sat on my bed and started moving around the house and visiting friends while suddenly waking up and realizing I am still on my bed. Time and time again. I think we can learn to to do this luciditly when it happens.

^The learning phase is i believe almost extremely useful for lucid dreaming techniques

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Oneiroherbs liek African Dream root are taken in the morning and produce an altered state. They are quite euphoric and very effective in producing dreams. Kirkii is another one but this is taken at night. It is said that taking Kirkii for 30 days in a row will teach you to have different dreams for the rest of ur life.

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I'd say yes, as long as your intent stands unbending.

What are the things that will help you ld? Awareness, intent, memory, sleep, sleep schedule? These are things that most drugs are going to effect negatively. Take weed for instance, memory, rem, awareness, and intent

Originally Posted by Sensei

What are the things that will help you ld? Awareness, intent, memory, sleep, sleep schedule? These are things that most drugs are going to effect negatively. Take weed for instance, memory, rem, awareness, and intent

Good thinking, idk what i was thinking when i made this post haha.
LD's are far better then any drug as i can imagine.

Lds are the shitnitz. Nothing better too look forward to.