I think I didn't express myself clearly with the eye rolling thing. It’s not anything like the typical REM eyeballs dance inside your eye sockets, he just looks up with his eyes closed and like looks for something far away, widening his field of vision. I didn’t give these details before because he didn’t himself explain them to me that clearly and I might have misunderstood him.

That’s basically what I wanted to ask about, whether we are onto something here, studying the methods of a natural, like the eye movements determining the sleep phase as you suggest.
We might really be onto something. Now if we are able to replicate this...With what you've written above about the eyes it now seems close to certain third eye visualizations that may be used for wilding. It also sounds close to the vision/visualization tutorials here. Again, I am left wondering if the movement and position of the eyes plays a role.

It's really great that you guys have come across natural dreamers that have no knowledge of current techniques so we can read what works for them. There are many paths to lucidity.