“Knowing” vs “Thinking” you’ll lucid dream and Programing your mind to do so.

I was reading an article about The Matrix and Lucid Dreaming, when an ad in the side column caught my attention. “Why do some people master Lucid Dreaming while others sleep through the fog?” This question has always plagued me, though not in those exact words, so I clicked on the ad and read through the preview of “The Lucid Dreaming Fast Track.” (Don’t worry I didn’t buy it. However, after reading, if it were cheaper, I think it would be a good buy)

In the snippet, Rebecca, the author, proclaims that Lucid dreaming is NOT hard, but that it is an “intuitive change in mindset”. I vehemently agree with this. I cannot tell you how many times I have had lucid dreams simply because I went to bed KNOWING that I was going to have one.

“Don’t think you are, know you are.” - Morpheus

She goes on to say that those who sleep through the fog simply haven’t been able to separate the inaccurate information about Lucid Dreaming from the truth. So what is the TRUTH? Is it the “intuitive change in mindset?” In other words, “knowing” 100% that you will have one? Or something else?

Awareness (reality checks), Dream Journal (and dream signs), Techniques (from MILD to WILD), Prospective Memory (and consistency), Meditation (and visualization), Passion (and dedication).

All of these are potent ingredients that lead to Lucid Dreams, but naturals don’t consciously think about this stuff on the same level as non-naturals. Lucid dreamers who are naturals just know…. LDs are as normal to them as normal dreams are to non-lucid dreamers. Why?

I know some naturals subconsciously do a lot of these things (like asking themselves where they are as an awareness/reality check), but I feel like their brains are wired a certain way (not to say that we non-naturals can’t rewire our brains to think the same way, to become natural lucid dreamers).

At times I feel like I am on the verge of becoming “natural”. Sometimes, I just "know". It’s really hard to explain, but it’s as if my dream-self simply “decides” to become lucid. I think it might have something to do with the fact that I am starting to be able to differentiate between reality and the dream world. Sometimes I act really nonchalant when I realize it’s a dream, almost as if the realization had been mulling over in my mind while I was non-lucid. It may be paradoxical or not even make sense, but that’s the best way I can explain it. :/



Also, if you can control what you dream about before you sleep, (preprogramming a dream, which I do all the time), can’t you pre-program your mind to lucid dream in the very same way? In other words, tell yourself you will have a lucid dream, see yourself having a lucid dream and most importantly believe and know you will have a lucid dream. But then again, I guess this would be Mantra/MILD right? I think a big factor that determines success here is your excitement/passion to have one.

Hopefully I haven’t gotten too lost in my own thoughts. Has anyone experimented with preprogramming your mind for Lucid Dreaming? Is there anyone who has experienced this “intuitive change in mindset” from a non-lucid dreamer, “sleeping in the fog”, to a master of Lucid Dreams? If so, what caused you to change the way you go about trying to Lucid Dream?

Of course I'd also love to hear other comments if something else I wrote caught your attention! :D

I'm a fan of Rebecca's work, I know some members here take issue with her, but she is an experienced LDer, unlike a lot of people peddling their products.

I wrote a thread on just this a while back which overlaps with your ideas, you may find interesting: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...nique-rut.html

Also: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...cid-later.html

There's a lot of , what ifs and buts and maybe if i and so on, i think you've over engineered your thoughts with to meny ifs and buts,, if never heard of lucid dreaming since about 2 week ago yet have been have these dreams for a good 20 years training or no training the fact is i know im dreaming and that's all i need to know,,,,,its impossible to induce these dreams they just happen, if you did no training would the results be the same,,,, your first thought you hear your self say in you mind when dreaming is at the most paramount, " i am dreaming" and no one can argue with that apart from u....dont be scared of the truth,, you are the truth,

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Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

I'm a fan of Rebecca's work, I know some members here take issue with her, but she is an experienced LDer, unlike a lot of people peddling their products.

Also: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...cid-later.html

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I will definitely check out these links, they are right up my alley! And I think Rebecca is genuine as well. Sure Lucid Dreaming information is free on the web for anyone who wants it, but I don't think the Fast Track was a scam or anything. Maybe it was a little overpriced for info that you can find on her own website, but it would be nice to have it in book form. And the concept, the "change in the intuitive mindset", which she apparently talks about in the book too is what caught my interest.

I don't agree fully with what you said about this topic though it was a great observation. I do not think a person who isn't a natural even if they fully 100% believe they would've had a lucid will have one. I do understand about this feeling that you know you'll have an LD however I believe this feeling can only constanly occur after you have exprience plenty of LD's. Most these Natural been LDing before they even had the chance to recall their first one. That's why that feeling comes rapidly for them because they already done this before. It's like learning any other subject, if you start it at a young age and kept doing it till now you just know you'll have a better shot than someone who hasn't had much exprience in it. And eventually for people who are natural or not and have LD's for far too many times I bet all they have to do is think about it whether they believe or not and it just happens.

Don't listen to me ,in new to this shit, its just been a part of me for so long, iv just learnt to deal with, whys, ifs, buts justs died out a long time ago, at first is was curse , such many unasnswerd questions, yet nothing but the truth then i it was easier to embrace it, it became a blessing,

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Originally Posted by ViIe

I don't agree fully with what you said about this topic though it was a great observation. I do not think a person who isn't a natural even if they fully 100% believe they would've had a lucid will have one. I do understand about this feeling that you know you'll have an LD however I believe this feeling can only constanly occur after you have exprience plenty of LD's. Most these Natural been LDing before they even had the chance to recall their first one. That's why that feeling comes rapidly for them because they already done this before. It's like learning any other subject, if you start it at a young age and kept doing it till now you just know you'll have a better shot than someone who hasn't had much exprience in it. And eventually for people who are natural or not and have LD's for far too many times I bet all they have to do is think about it whether they believe or not and it just happens.

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Yeah I was mainly just theorizing here because I realized that having this intent has worked for me so far.

For me at least, I've had about 17+ Lucids and even within the first ten, I was Lucid every single time where I was 100% sure I was going to have one. In some cases I tried to "trick" myself into thinking I was 100% sure (though far, far down I could feel a bit of doubt), and those times I didn't have a Lucid dream. It may just be my personal experience, but I've found that it's about intent. I think you decide from the very beginning how easy/hard it will be for you. It’s just my theory/ something I abide by. Something that has worked for me. The reason why I haven’t been able to have reoccurring LDs is because I struggle to keep my confidence level up. (100%, Confidence Level…ugh I feel like I’m in statistics again.)

If you believe 100% that you will have a Lucid Dream, know that when you go to sleep you will wake up in another reality, have that true confidence in yourself as if you were a natural, why should it matter how many Lucid Dreams you’ve actually had before?

On particular nights, you believe it comes as naturally to you as it does to others, therefore, it does.

On nights that I truly believe this without a doubt, I lucid dream. I’m sure if it’s possible for me it’s possible for others.


And you're from Charlotte? Me too! :D

Ld is fictional rubbish , iv become a none beliver

abcde - See my post to this recent thread you started. And you mean non-believer.

Everyone Else - I am not sold on a natural anything. I heard or read somewhere that more talented people just pick up stuff quicker than those deemed untalented. I think this may also be the case with natural lucid dreamers. I think anyone can be a natural lucid dreamer, but maybe baggage and beliefs get in the way, or they haven't been doing it since they were a kid, or something. I think anyone can learn to do anything, but some will pick it so easily and fast they appear natural or talented, while others will take more time, like me unfortunately.

The point is, don't assume that just because you are not what you would call a natural lucid dreamer that you are somehow broken, damaged, less or missing anything. There is nothing wrong with you. Some of us are turtles, some of us are hares, and the world would be a damn boring place if it was populated by all the same kind of animal.

Well, what's meant by a natural LDer is that, yeah, they usually started as kids (most people have at least a few lucids as kids), but they learned to recognize the dreaming state. Usually it's because they were having a lot of nightmares. Kids who do that learn to recognize when it happens and either wake themselves up or become lucid and get some control over the dream. Or I suppose they start sleeping as little as possible. Naturals don't know the terminology or the tricks, they often don't understand what's happening to them, in fact a lot of them show up here after years or decades relieved to discover they're not the only ones who experience this. But a lot of times they have a complex too, and either hate lucidity or feel all arrogant toward anybody who has to struggle and use RCs etc.

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Originally Posted by DreamBliss

Everyone Else - I am not sold on a natural anything. I heard or read somewhere that more talented people just pick up stuff quicker than those deemed untalented. I think this may also be the case with natural lucid dreamers. I think anyone can be a natural lucid dreamer, but maybe baggage and beliefs get in the way, or they haven't been doing it since they were a kid, or something. I think anyone can learn to do anything, but some will pick it so easily and fast they appear natural or talented, while others will take more time, like me unfortunately.

The point is, don't assume that just because you are not what you would call a natural lucid dreamer that you are somehow broken, damaged, less or missing anything. There is nothing wrong with you. Some of us are turtles, some of us are hares, and the world would be a damn boring place if it was populated by all the same kind of animal.

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Ah I see what you're saying. It makes more sense that someone would pick up the gift from learning how to defeat nightmares when they're extremely young, as opposed to simply being born with it. (Not saying that people can't be born with it though. It's not like I've conducted a study of Lucid Dreamers or anything) They constantly had nightmares and could eventually tell the difference between dreaming and reality.


I think the term "natural" applies to people whose lucidity has become the norm, and not to people who were "born" with it. Some people feel like they can't stop Lucid Dreaming, and I think this is what a natural is/becomes. As I've recently learned, there are many ways to define a natural lucid dreamer, but this is how I see it mostly defined.

I claim people as Natural Lucid dreamers if they have lucid dreams majority of the time without trying, with out having to trick the brain with a method on purpose. Most people don't know how to bring out this lucidity on their own like these Naturals and yes I agree anyone no matter how late or soon can become a natural no doub't. It's just instead of using tricks and ideas people need to get to the core and summon lucidity. It's not impossible indeed it's like having a different thinking patteren during a specific situation which would be dreaming in this case. You ever had a dream where you just knew you were dreaming out of the blue , no scary stuff nothing out of the ordinary, you just become lucid out of no where? That's how I see a natural as and I know naturals have a hard time not having lucid dreams. And yea Charlotte is a quiet place for me which is what I like about it.

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Originally Posted by ViIe

You ever had a dream where you just knew you were dreaming out of the blue , no scary stuff nothing out of the ordinary, you just become lucid out of no where?

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Yes to this so much.

^That is how I characterise and 'intent' lucid dream, as opposed to a 'prospective memory' ld or 'critical faculty' ld, and I think it's the way "naturals" ld.

A natural isn't someone that LDs without trying, it is someone that learned LDing without knowing about it first. You cannot become a natural if you already know about it (like, if you are reading this post)

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Originally Posted by Sensei

A natural isn't someone that LDs without trying, it is someone that learned LDing without knowing about it first. You cannot become a natural if you already know about it (like, if you are reading this post)

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When you say learned, do you mean actually studied and practiced, or just did it without knowing what it was? I was LD since before i knew what it was, so does that make me a ''natural'' ?

^ Yep - absolutely. Lol, how could a person "study and practice" before they even know what it is? :cackle:

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Originally Posted by Kaiern9

When you say learned, do you mean actually studied and practiced, or just did it without knowing what it was? I was LD since before i knew what it was, so does that make me a ''natural'' ?

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I really don't like the term much, but it would be a natual LD, most every person has had a lucid dream before learning about it (for instance i had 10 LDs before knowing what it was). So a natural is normally someone that does it consistently before knowing what it is. People say that they want to LD like a natural, but every LD is like a natural, because we took almost every technique from natural LDers.

Sensei - Well by going with the defintion of saying natural then obviously majority of people are naturals because they never knew about lucid dreams when they had one. However a lot of people are not reffering to the actual defintion of the word natural. They call people naturals just like I do when the person has many LD's without trying, that is the topic that people want to know. Maybe instead of using the word natural people should use the word consistent Lucid dreamers.

Kind of. I said that a natural LD is when done without knowing. A natural LDer is when it is done consistently. And that is more rare.