Thread: Not a cliche: the secret to lucidity: Reticular Activating System (RAS)

Wow, this seems like a really interesting topic - I just read the first article, but I'll be sure to read the second one too.
It's not really something I've thought about, but after reading the article, it is quite easy to find examples of where and how this system works.

I guess by being aware of it, one should be able to control it (To some extent).

I'm a lifetime daydreamer, and I have indeed noticed the loss of memory of what went on during episodes of daydreaming. I didn't like that one bit. I've trained myself to be more aware of my "waking life" while daydreaming, so I'm "in both worlds at the same time", so to speak. Of course, it only seems that way, this "switch" has no "in-between" state. It's either on or off.

So I guess I just rapidly alternate between "awake" and "daydreaming" states of consciousness, flipping the RAS switch rapidly. Strangely enough this does not affect my functioning in daily life (at least, not as far as I can tell). Now I know what and where it is, though, I can probably activate or de-activate it for use in Lucid Dreams.

Awesome find, thanks for sharing!!

Interesting, thanks for the post. So if I understand correctly, and wasn't daydreaming, this is the part of the brain where we get 'awareness'.

During rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, however, which is when dreaming occurs, the activity in the reticular activating system increases to levels similar to those that are seen during wakefulness.

Makes sense.

I wonder how this could be applied to a WILD scenario. What if you focus your conscious attention towards your unconscious self-talk? Is that possible?

I will give you another example. Have you ever driven down a freeway on a sunny afternoon, daydreaming until
you awaken suddenly after five minutes realizing that you missed your exit? You don’t remember cars passing
you or if you passed other cars, and you don’t remember what was on the radio. It should terrify you that you
are a 3,000-pound missile flying down the freeway at 60 miles an hour, and you have no memory of the last five
minutes of your drive. How can that possibly be? It’s because day dreaming is “self-talk,” which shuts down the
Reticular Activating System and keeps you from remembering

I find driving to be extremely stressful. I hate driving. 10 minute car rides take hours if I'm behind the wheel.

hmm, this explains alot, including why i do much better then most people in school even though they study a ton and I don't... interesting... though ironically, I still daydream a lot during the classes cause I get bored easily >.>

Thanks for the post! Very interesting!

This has massive implications for lucid dreaming.

It takes instructions from your conscious mind (like “I need to hear my baby”) and passes it
on to your subconscious mind, which becomes diligent and alert to your request.

This is the basis of any DILD technique and also explains how some people are able to establish a 'sentinel of intent' while WILDing that can pull them back from the edge when they are about to slip into unconscious sleep.

Illuminating stuff.

For me this illustrates why I find techniques that instill a strong intent to recognise I'm dreaming (MILD) far more effective than techniques that raise general awareness (ie. ADA). With enough conscious instruction your RAS bridges the gap to your sub-conscious and, like the mother who is filtering out other noise to hear her baby, your attention becomes drawn sensory input that will alert you to the fact you are dreaming.

The functioning of the RAS would also explain why WBTB increases the likeliness of lucidity, as you enter REM sooner you're RAS retains a greater degree of its waking levels of activity, allowing you to more easily filter out dream content.

EDIT: On further thought, RAS can also explain how awareness techniques work, by becoming more aware of shifts between attention and non-attention (self-talk and daydreams) you can train your RAS to function for longer periods and be less susceptible to distractions and (in theory) not be fooled by the illusory state of non-lucid dreaming. This would appear to be the neurological basis of Tibetan dream yoga.
So all DILD techniques essentially revolve around programming the RAS to recognise the dreaming state and trigger conscious lucidity.

Now is Ritalin a lucid dream drug?

Let's not jump into any conclusions. Sure, our RAS may look like an exciting prospect to look into, considering its apparent nature, but don't forget that noticing things occur also in a dream too. In fact, one may argue that their RAS isn't actually deactivated when they dream, but affixes our attention to dream phenomenon rather than actual reality. It would be bad to assume that our awareness is apart of our RAS because our RAS is apart of our awareness.

Very interesting reading. I've been doing this experience in the last weeks which seems to go a bit with RAS:

- I put an alarm ringing every 10 minutes. Currently it is only off for 8 hours, meaning it works for 16hours a day for a total of 78 alarm rings each 24hours.
- When it rings, I turn it off, and stop for a bit trying to recall everything I've done in the past 10minutes, and that I need to stay focused on my surroundings (like ADA)

What I notice is that if I don't turn the alarm off, my attention spawn is much greater after several rings. This is because I progressively start focusing more often to the point where I am not only waiting for the next alarm, but also on it's meaning: I have the task to focus on my surroundings.

Some funny things I've crossed about (some of them might be obvious, but it felt like it was interesting verifying them :p)

- My mood for sure affects both the attention/focus spawn. I've noticed when I'm nervous I take longer to turn the alarm off and when I'm relaxed or more motivated I increase greatly the odds that I'm already focused on my surroundings when it rings (aka, less chances of being day dreaming);
- The amount of sensorial input affects my ability to either focus on my surroundings and to perceive the alarm message. What I mean with this is that reducing the amount of sources which give me audio/visual input means I reduce the odds of day dreaming between the alarm's rings and increases the odds that I might already be expecting the alarm. This goes in the way of why you should study without distractions. The more sensorial input you're receiving, the more chances your RAS will shut down and your mind starts to wander;
- If I increase the time between alarm's ringing (originally the alarm was at 15minutes/64 times per day) I have a greater chance of day dreaming, but (interesting part), if I reduce the alarm to, let's say 5minutes, my attention spawn increases, but only for a limited amount of time. I would have to conclude this happens because short-term memory has limited storage. If you don't make a break, then you will eventually start loosing information.

Anyway, think I'm going to focus a bit more on this experiment, suppose with habituation some results might chance. But do you got any thoughts on the short-term memory and how is it affected by RAS? Because although we're talking about a very relative and hardly quantifiable data, there's probably a co-relation about the amount of time/data you take/store in it before your RAS shuts down right?

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

This has massive implications for lucid dreaming.
The functioning of the RAS would also explain why WBTB increases the likeliness of lucidity, as you enter REM sooner you're RAS retains a greater degree of its waking levels of activity, allowing you to more easily filter out dream content.

You're basically saying that the action of waking up to perform an WBTB can increase the odds of reaching REM stage with an (more) opened RAS? Could you explain yourself a bit more in detail, although I do like that perspective, I'm wondering if it makes a big difference, since at later hours (typically the late hours to perform WBTBs) we would already be experiencing a small gap between REM cycles?

"(...)the activity in the reticular activating system increases to levels similar to those that are seen during wakefulness." if they are close, and we're talking about a wave pattern (down down down....up up up and we reach REM....cycle resetting down down....repeat) We would carry the slightly more openned RAS into a still descending direction even thought pre-REM stages are shorter? Hope I made sense

What I meant was that if you enter REM having been just awake and focused on lucid dreaming then your RAS is more likely to carry over your intention into your dreams than if you'd spent several hours and multiple sleep cycles.

It makes sense in my head :S

This goes in the way of why you should study without distractions. The more sensorial input you're receiving, the more chances your RAS will shut down and your mind starts to wander;

This is a really great idea, I've never thought about it that way, but it does make a lot of sense!

Regarding WBTB, if the RAS is involved with Is involved with Cholinergic and Adrenergic systems, then staying awake would change the balance of these 2 chemicals and influence the RAS.

This video gives a really good overview of the Cholinergic and Adrenergic systems.

This goes in the way of why you should study without distractions. The more sensorial input you're receiving, the more chances your RAS will shut down and your mind starts to wander;

This RAS stuff makes a good deal of sense but as was said you don't know what your brain's focus is on when you're dreaming as your perception and your environment are both coming from your brain instead of just your perception as in waking life. I do find it interesting that I focus better on working/studying/etc. when listening to music... as if I have to give my mind something to put in the background and ignore (if that makes sense). If I go to the library or stay at home and not listen to music or the TV or something, then every little noise distracts me. If I listen to music I focus better. I also had ADD as a kid (and probably to some degree still do though I don't take medication for it anymore) so my RAS may not be as good as a normal person so maybe by giving my brain something to 'chew on' in the background that's how I keep my attention on what I'm focusing on? Idk... but very interesting stuff to think about!

If the brain's attention and awareness gets inhibited by daydreaming and fantasy, what are some of the things that we can use to "snap out of it"? I know that a phone call might work, so is slamming a book on a desk, or any other kind of loud noise. This might not be the best cue for lucid dreaming.

What else might work to arouse RAS in the middle of a dream?

And by saying this it RAS is 'lucid living' so where ever you go LIVE LIFE Awaken ALLYour senses walk and notice everything and everything like a lucid dream! Don't be oblivious and just merely exist be mindful and don't take anything for granted! Not only does lucid living 1up your lucid dreaming experience it also makes your real, normal life more enjoyable! No ups or down.