Thread: I challenge you to visualize!

Hey arby,
thanks for another inspirational post. You seem to be somewhat of the authority on VILDing around here and I always like to read your stuff.

So when you challenge us to visualize these different scenes, do you want us to do so while in the midst of everyday life, i.e. while walking around, with open eyes etc., or to take some time off every day, get in a relaxed position, close eyes and then start visualizing?

Also, I would like to shortly sketch out my usual problem with VILDs (hope this isn't getting too OT now for this thread):

For me, visualizing a certain scenery using the 'big' 3 senses (sight+touch+sound) does not feel THAT difficult. However, mostly the visualization runs out of steam quickly, meaning that I go through a certain scene and at the end of it don't know what else to do. For instance, I might have prepared in my head a scene where I walk alongside a huge mansion on a hot summer day, the path leads into the garden where a huge pool with crystal blue water is located, I walk toward the pool, I use a springboard to jumo right into the fresh water, I dive to the other side of the pool, climb out and...well, then I always feel kind of stuck not knowing what to do anymore. Mostly I am by far not deep enough into the visualization to transform it into a lucid at that time (meaning I still feel my physical body etc.). Can you maybe give a hint on how you would deal with this? Do you just cycle your visualizations and play through the same scene again and again? Or do you improvise and just think of new things to do in that scene on the spot? Or is it just a matter of timing to start the visualization only when you are in a pretty trance-like state already?

Any kind of helpful reply would be great

thanks, lemmefly

I love visualizing stuff; I do it every day with pretty realistic results!

I'll post back here with the first one I catch myself doing (sometimes they just come and go).

I apologize in advance for this long post.

Interesting thread, though I noticed something in your post that caught my attention. You speak a lot of visualization which of course means to visualize or to see, but in none of the examples you provide did you say the word visualize, you said imagine. Some of the things you mention can be visualized but they also take imagination to sense their feel or smell, taste, or sound etc.

I don't mean to be picky about your choice of words, especially because you yourself said "imagine" in the various samples, but I think some people might not get the full effect of what you're trying to help them with if you (to their knowledge or not) confuse them with the wrong words. Granted they are just words, and the message of your topic seems to still be getting across, but I think it would work better if you challenged people to "imagine" and not just to visualize. Visualization is just a precursor to imagination, because with imagination comes all the other senses and utilizing them all will probably help with lucidity and dream control rather than visualization alone.

I mention this because I've read stories of blind people and the way their dreams work. They obviously don't see anything in their dreams (unless they weren't born blind, in which case some of them will be able to visualize from past memories) instead they perceive dream worlds with their other senses, just as they do in waking life. So I think its important to not mix the word visualization with imagination. Because it may hinder some peoples abilities to fully experience growth with their creative potential, if they're trying to visualize sound/touch/smell/taste (which you obviously cannot do).

Either way your idea is fantastic and it's a great challenge that all of us oneironauts should strive to do on a daily basis, so kudos to you arby.

Gosh, I love visualizing. Been doing it ever since I was a kid, it used to feel almost totally realistic but that kinda faded when I grew up a bit. But I've been focusing on it a lot more now. And let me tell you, it has a big effect on making dreams more vivid.

I used to think everyone found it as vivid as i do, but I guess not. A shame, really This is my method of getting to sleep. I just lose myself to my imagination...

Originally Posted by lemmefly

Hey arby,
thanks for another inspirational post. You seem to be somewhat of the authority on VILDing around here and I always like to read your stuff.

So when you challenge us to visualize these different scenes, do you want us to do so while in the midst of everyday life, i.e. while walking around, with open eyes etc., or to take some time off every day, get in a relaxed position, close eyes and then start visualizing?

Also, I would like to shortly sketch out my usual problem with VILDs (hope this isn't getting too OT now for this thread):

For me, visualizing a certain scenery using the 'big' 3 senses (sight+touch+sound) does not feel THAT difficult. However, mostly the visualization runs out of steam quickly, meaning that I go through a certain scene and at the end of it don't know what else to do. For instance, I might have prepared in my head a scene where I walk alongside a huge mansion on a hot summer day, the path leads into the garden where a huge pool with crystal blue water is located, I walk toward the pool, I use a springboard to jumo right into the fresh water, I dive to the other side of the pool, climb out and...well, then I always feel kind of stuck not knowing what to do anymore. Mostly I am by far not deep enough into the visualization to transform it into a lucid at that time (meaning I still feel my physical body etc.). Can you maybe give a hint on how you would deal with this? Do you just cycle your visualizations and play through the same scene again and again? Or do you improvise and just think of new things to do in that scene on the spot? Or is it just a matter of timing to start the visualization only when you are in a pretty trance-like state already?

Any kind of helpful reply would be great

thanks, lemmefly

I want you to become curious about your environment, both for the real life visualizations and the VILD. Imagine the smashing of a nearby bowl off the table. What would it look like? sound like? Would someone scream in surprise at the sound?

For the dream, What's in the mansion? go explore it. If it turns out to be boring, what's behind the fireplace if you pull the 3rd book from the right? ;P

Originally Posted by astralpixels

I apologize in advance for this long post.

Interesting thread, though I noticed something in your post that caught my attention. You speak a lot of visualization which of course means to visualize or to see, but in none of the examples you provide did you say the word visualize, you said imagine. Some of the things you mention can be visualized but they also take imagination to sense their feel or smell, taste, or sound etc.

I don't mean to be picky about your choice of words, especially because you yourself said "imagine" in the various samples, but I think some people might not get the full effect of what you're trying to help them with if you (to their knowledge or not) confuse them with the wrong words. Granted they are just words, and the message of your topic seems to still be getting across, but I think it would work better if you challenged people to "imagine" and not just to visualize. Visualization is just a precursor to imagination, because with imagination comes all the other senses and utilizing them all will probably help with lucidity and dream control rather than visualization alone.

I mention this because I've read stories of blind people and the way their dreams work. They obviously don't see anything in their dreams (unless they weren't born blind, in which case some of them will be able to visualize from past memories) instead they perceive dream worlds with their other senses, just as they do in waking life. So I think its important to not mix the word visualization with imagination. Because it may hinder some peoples abilities to fully experience growth with their creative potential, if they're trying to visualize sound/touch/smell/taste (which you obviously cannot do).

Either way your idea is fantastic and it's a great challenge that all of us oneironauts should strive to do on a daily basis, so kudos to you arby.

Yeah, internally I actually seem to make a distinction between "visualization" and "imagery". Scientifically, they mean the same thing but I think the popular distinction is that imagery is something you don't believe is real. Or, at least, is at a lower scale of being real.

But I totally agree that these visualizations should go far beyond just visual stuff, if that wasn't clear due to my choice of words =)

Today I visualized myself leaping over the grand canyon. I felt the wind whipping past me, the rough stone on my hands. I had a slightly metallic taste in my mouth. The sun was near-blinding, and very very hot. Very quiet, except for the occasional bird noises.

It was pretty awesome.

arby, i'm away to check out some of your stuff

What is the point in this again?

"Why?"

"Why not?"

I see zero point in visualization practice. Its not like lucid dreaming has anything to do with imagination and seeing stuff with your third eye. Sometimes I dont understand why people post. /End Sarcasm

Originally Posted by LSDreamer

I see zero point in visualization practice. Its not like lucid dreaming has anything to do with imagination and seeing stuff with your third eye. Sometimes I dont understand why people post. /End Sarcasm

lol

Originally Posted by Raspberry

Today I visualized myself leaping over the grand canyon. I felt the wind whipping past me, the rough stone on my hands. I had a slightly metallic taste in my mouth. The sun was near-blinding, and very very hot. Very quiet, except for the occasional bird noises.

It was pretty awesome.

arby, i'm away to check out some of your stuff

5 stars! Encore! Encore! =)

The details down to the taste in your mouth are VERY good indicators you really have the hang of visualizing!

On a slight alteration of this - two nights ago, after my WBTB at 4.30am - I lay down, and started visuallising my bedroom in terms of a moving camera flying around my room, capturing every angle, eventually, with my eyes closed, I could quite literally see my room, with me in my bed, next thing I know, I "woke up" to have a lucid dream.

I use a V-MILD type thing, it works great!

I love visualizing and VILDs are amazing. The dream just starts forming in front of you. You start hearing noises and then start feeling thing. Then boom!! Your in a dream.

Is VILD the same as V-WILD? or differient from V-MILD

Originally Posted by LabRat

On a slight alteration of this - two nights ago, after my WBTB at 4.30am - I lay down, and started visuallising my bedroom in terms of a moving camera flying around my room, capturing every angle, eventually, with my eyes closed, I could quite literally see my room, with me in my bed, next thing I know, I "woke up" to have a lucid dream.

The first order of business is: Is that you with a daft punk helmet? Because you would be my friend forever if it is.

Secondly, i've done almost exactly what you describe before =P It's so effective it's almost tempting to make it into a tech XD

Originally Posted by dakotahnok

Is VILD the same as V-WILD? or differient from V-MILD

They're 2 flavors of the same thing. V-WILD is the classification of all WILDs that use visualization. VILD is a technique itself.

So, VILD is also a V-WILD but a technique that classifies as V-WILD isn't necessarily a VILD (like, V-MILD). So, in reality, I should have used V-WILD in the first post but whatever XD. (I'm very guilty because I popularized V-WILD as a term)

Not me in the helmet, unfortunately. Apparently they cost about $10,000 to get the real-deal ones made...

Anyway! - It does seem to be very effective! Also did it today during a nap.

Challenge dropped.. I guess... =/

Wow...I have really underestimated the power of this visualization thing. I guess I only ever tried it when attempting to V-WILD, in which case I was not visualizing for visualizations' sake and I missed the whole point, apparently. I didn't realize when I'd imagine these things I would actually taste and smell and hear what I was 'seeing' without truly being asleep...but that's how it was. And what you said about being curious about our environments was exactly what I needed to hear. It transformed how I face those points when I hit a 'dead end' and am not sure what I should be seeing/hearing/etc. If I go about it with curiosity in mind, what I discover is that the world I'm moving through is endless, not cut short like I had previously thought!

Just great! I'm sure I'll be able to use this skill in a lot of ways as I develop it more.

Nice post!...Btw is visualizing the same as daydreaming? I think it's not the same because daydreaming does not involve the immediate environment but visualizing interacts with what you percieve in real life.

IMJ

I thought everyone visualized like I do...

And I dunno, I guess it's like non-lucid and lucid dreams. When you daydream it's passive and you don't notice it as much. In visualisation you really focus on your senses and activily control it. Dreams, but to a lesser extent. I'm sure this would work great if you were hardcore at meditation

I don't understand what your all talking about. If I visualize something it's very vague and I don't smell or hear anything. How can I get started getting vivid visualizations if the ones I have are close to nothing?

Originally Posted by LiveInTheDream

Wow...I have really underestimated the power of this visualization thing. I guess I only ever tried it when attempting to V-WILD, in which case I was not visualizing for visualizations' sake and I missed the whole point, apparently. I didn't realize when I'd imagine these things I would actually taste and smell and hear what I was 'seeing' without truly being asleep...but that's how it was. And what you said about being curious about our environments was exactly what I needed to hear. It transformed how I face those points when I hit a 'dead end' and am not sure what I should be seeing/hearing/etc. If I go about it with curiosity in mind, what I discover is that the world I'm moving through is endless, not cut short like I had previously thought!

Just great! I'm sure I'll be able to use this skill in a lot of ways as I develop it more.

Endless worlds! Yes! You've got the hang of it! =)

This is the sort of success story that drives me to keep coming back again and again. ^.^ Keep doing what you're doing and if it works out for you, come back and share how to do it with others. I'll be honest, I don't stick around for long and i'm not a great teacher because I come from the wrong perspective, the one where this is all innate...

Originally Posted by imj

Nice post!...Btw is visualizing the same as daydreaming? I think it's not the same because daydreaming does not involve the immediate environment but visualizing interacts with what you percieve in real life.

IMJ

Originally Posted by Raspberry

I thought everyone visualized like I do...

And I dunno, I guess it's like non-lucid and lucid dreams. When you daydream it's passive and you don't notice it as much. In visualisation you really focus on your senses and activily control it. Dreams, but to a lesser extent. I'm sure this would work great if you were hardcore at meditation

I totally agree that the difference between what I refer to as a daydream and a visualization is the extent that the user is engaged in it. But that said, they are still vastly different in how they are experienced. For some reason, what I would call a daydream is never that vivid. Like, I've never actually flinched from a day dream or snapped out of it to find my heart racing and palms sweaty. Visualizations? All the time. Even though I know it's not real at a higher level than the day dream.

Originally Posted by rynkrt3

I don't understand what your all talking about. If I visualize something it's very vague and I don't smell or hear anything. How can I get started getting vivid visualizations if the ones I have are close to nothing?

Your visualizations are not "real" in the theoretical state of the mind. The concept of the object you're visualizing is there but the object itself is not. "Non-vivid visualization" often reduces to simple deductive thought, I find. I find people deducing things about known objects instead of visualizing them.

Did you know smiling can make you happier? The result can abduct the cause. Try a visualization where you react to it in real life. Sway purposefully to the explosion as depicted above. By having it actually effect the real world, you can help make it real.

But that's only a cheap solution. In reality it's still up to you and I have yet to find any tricks that will induce real imagery for you. Make your shit real is the one and only answer.

One time when I was bored, I went to a site to read things to do when you're bored (Yes really xD)

There was some thing you could do: Stand on your chair, close your eyes and visualize that you are standing on the edge of a deep cliff. Feel the way you feel, ingage your senses and build up the moment, then jump.

It felt prety real and I was glad to fall just a little bit before hitting the ground