Thread: Ask me about Metal

Go for it, the GENRE Metal, for all you smart asses trying to pull that lame periodic table joke.

Any questions you have, about any genre, recommendations, what the difference between sub genres are, why you should listen to metal, etc.

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I love metal, especially the best classic metal from the 80's. There are a few subdivisions of modern metal that I think are confusing, and I thought maybe you could clear up some of the confusion. What would you say is the difference between grindcore and deathcore? Is there any difference between deathcore and death metal? Is deathcore a type of hardcore? Does all of it qualify as speed metal? And one more... What is the difference between speed metal and thrash metal?

It seems to me that deathcore is a cross between death metal and grindcore, so it qualifies as both. I would say they all qualify as speed metal, and "hardcore" and "thrash" are just alternate terms for speed metal. Death metal is metal that has a dark, deep, wicked element. It has a doom sound. Grindcore is the hardest and fastest form of speed metal, and deathcore is grindcore with a death metal edge. That is my take on it, but the boundaries separating subdivisions and the issues of what is a category of what are pretty fuzzy. What do you think?

I want to add that the 80's glam metal that dominated the Hell out of MTV's Headbanger's Ball was a joke, and I don't even consider it real metal. There has been a lot of cheese that has gotten too much attention and been taken as more representative of metal than it should have been. There has been a lot of silly and pathetic music that comes under the category of "metal", but the best metal there has been has been phenomenal music. There have been a lot of profoundly talented people playing in that genre. I don't think the top of the line metal acts have gotten the credit they deserve. I hope they eventually will.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What would you say is the difference between grindcore and deathcore? Is there any difference between deathcore and death metal? Is deathcore a type of hardcore? Does all of it qualify as speed metal? And one more... What is the difference between speed metal and thrash metal?

Well, ill try and answer this as best as i can seeing as i don't really listen to any grindcore or deathcore. My opinion, grind is more just noise and screeching guitars and whatnot, where deathcore is your more melodic sort of music but has elements of hardcore in it. Also answering your question, yes, deathcore is a sub genre that branched off from hardcore. Look at the band Abscess, they're a sort of death/punk metal band that could be put under that genre.

Now, none of those 2 genres classify as speed metal. None, not one bit. Maybe influences, but not classifiable. Reason why? Look at old Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer, Annihilator, Testament, etc. They're all fast, melodic riffs, and most of the time, clean singing. Grindcore is just thrashing about on drums and guitars, most of the time in drop d tuning and all the rest of it.

The difference between Speed metal and Thrash metal. Speed metal as i said before, i more melodic, but still holds that fast hard pace, whilst thrash metal is more, 'screw the melody, start headbanging' and comes across as more brutal then melodic.

It seems to me that deathcore is a cross between death metal and grindcore, so it qualifies as both. I would say they all qualify as speed metal, and "hardcore" and "thrash" are just alternate terms for speed metal.

Deathcore is more or less just Death metal taken with hardcore influences. They don't really have any aspects of speed metal. It's sort of like how people mix Dragonforce up thinking it's a speed metal band. They're power metal, not speed, although they do play fast, the sound is more what you would hear from a power metal band.

Death metal is metal that has a dark, deep, wicked element. It has a doom sound. Grindcore is the hardest and fastest form of speed metal, and deathcore is grindcore with a death metal edge. That is my take on it, but the boundaries separating subdivisions and the issues of what is a category of what are pretty fuzzy. What do you think?

Death metal bands = Cannibal Corpse, Scar Symmetry (Melodic Death), Arch Enemy, etc

Doom metal = Deteriorot, etc

Grindcore = Anal Cunt, Napalm Death (i think..could be wrong)

Deathcore = no clue, but i know the genre branches from both hardcore and death metal

I want to add that the 80's glam metal that dominated the Hell out of MTV's Headbanger's Ball was a joke, and I don't even consider it real metal.

Pantera was glam/hair metal at one stage.

There has been a lot of silly and pathetic music that comes under the category of "metal"

Like bands such as As I Lay Dying, Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet For My Valentine, etc. These bands are NOT metal. They are 'metalcore'. Which is again, a branch off of metal AND hardcore.

There have been a lot of profoundly talented people playing in that genre. I don't think the top of the line metal acts have gotten the credit they deserve. I hope they eventually will.

I totally agree. Hope i answered your questions dude.

Thanks for your analysis. You seem to know a lot about the discrepencies. I think the issue gets so hazy in some areas that the truth of it would never be agreed on by everybody, not even music critics or musicians. I can see a room full of heavy metal musicians arguing about this without any two people in the room having exactly the same opinion. Heavy metal has so many subdivisions now that categorizing it all is a real trick.

It seems to me that any metal with high speed would qualify as speed metal, but definitely not all the same type of speed metal as the founders like Metallica and Anthrax. Also, the only deathcore I know of is as berzerk as grindcore. It even sounds just like grindcore, but with a death metal touch that has an element of the dark sound of early Black Sabbath. Grindcore is as speedy as it gets, so if it is not a form of speed metal, that makes things really confusing. But I can't say I am totally certain about what separates all of the categories from each other.

I brought this up because of a video I found on You Tube recently. It does a lot to clear up the issue, but it also raised a few questions in my mind.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tic8QtUZS_M

To be fair, i think grindcore can be defined a little better. I don't listen to a lot of it, but it is a little more than people just thrashing around on their instruments. It certainly seems grindcore is not a genre that takes itself too seriously, so one wouldn't expect epic, intricate, well composed metal. On the contrary, grindcore songs don't typically have much evolution or development occuring. All the same, it deserves a little more.

Grindcore notably has roots in punk. The most obvious example would be one of the early grind bands, Napalm Death. Check out their "scum" album and you'll see what i mean. But even more recent stuff from bands like Pig Destroyer have a that similar kind of simple riffage and wreckless vibe. While there isn't a massive variety in styles for the genre (well, it's already a sub-genre, you can't expect much), there are still definite differences to be heard throughout the "scene". And yeah it's true, there are also styles within grindcore that are more based on noise than the two aforementioned bands. Not that there's anything wrong with that. A little bit of noise can go a long way

[QUOTE=Ardent Lost;766495]To be fair, i think grindcore can be defined a little better. I don't listen to a lot of it, but it is a little more than people just thrashing around on their instruments. It certainly seems grindcore is not a genre that takes itself too seriously, so one wouldn't expect epic, intricate, well composed metal. On the contrary, grindcore songs don't typically have much evolution or development occuring. All the same, it deserves a little more.

Well after checking the link posted before, i got a look into some more Grindcore bands (other then Napalm Death), and you can see there is some technique and style behind all that noise, something that people that listen to other genres wouldn't see. But what makes me say its just people thrashing about on their instruments is the band Anal Cunt. Really, if you ever check out anything of theirs, you will know what i mean. More the lyrics then anything, but music wise as well is pretty much the same.

there are also styles within grindcore that are more based on noise than the two aforementioned bands. Not that there's anything wrong with that. A little bit of noise can go a long way

Thats true, you can also probably just MAYBE look at black metal giving grindcore bands some influence with their blast beat drumming, which is similar to the drumming styles of most grindcore bands. Not to long ago i found out that Bathory back in their pre-viking metal days when they were still black metal had influenced Metallica. So noise can go a long way, no doubt about that.