# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  Pornocrates's Workbook

## Pornocrates

Hi DV members!

I'm Pornocrates, a 21yo student (third year now, I'll be graduating in a month or so) living in Paris. I've been interested in LDing since August 2014 when I bumped into the subreddit /rLucidDreaming and bought ETWOLD. I read it then and have been rereading chapters since to make sure I didn't forget anything and to strengthen my practice. I read a lot on the internet (DV, reddit) and I also read Robert Waggoner's _Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self_.

Before knowing about LDing, I hardly remembered my dreams, apart from a few that were really vivid. In high school I slept around 6 hours a night and I would need 5 mins to fall asleep (no wonder...). In uni, I slept much more but had the same level of DR. As soon as I took up LDing as my main goal I started having vivid dreams. 

I have a good DR going from 1 dream when I don't journal seriously to a max of 6-7 (lots of awakenings) with an average of 4 when I practice diligently. I used to write down each time I woke up but lately I relied a lot on my vocal recorder. It's convenient because I don't skip on recording my dreams just because I feel drowsy. However, I feel like it's himpering my DR since I don't have to focus so much on the dream I just speak quickly and I'm done. I feel that when I write (since we write slower than we think) I recall a lot more details and the recorded dreams make more sense on paper. During my first year on the lucid path I would focus a lot more on DJing and my DR in general. I think I need to work more on the basics.

I'm focusing on the MILD technique, although for the first year I didn't chose one and therefore I took a lot of time before having my first LD. I'm DJing, training my prospective memory with targets I have to notice everyday. I also like the ADA, SA approach since I've always had a strong interest in meditation (esp. zazen) and more recently mindfulness. 

I'm a fairly anxious individual and I tend to put too much stress on things, that would be a good thing to know! I always try to bite more than I can chew and I lack consistency in my efforts and motivation.

In the first year I had 2-3 LDs. During my second year I had around 8. 3 in april. I feel like I had a major breakthrough because I induced 2 of them and I've had more prelucid dreams (with hints or clues). I didn't really find what worked for me and that's one of the reasons why I'm creating my workbook here. 

I'm really happy to be part of this community and to be able to communicate with its members! I hope I'll be able to provide as much help as I've received just by going through posts  ::D: 

Thanks for giving us rookies such a good opportunity to learn to be lucid!  :Cheeky:

----------


## fogelbise

Nice to see you have created a workbook Pornocrates. Welcome!  :smiley:  I love traveling to Paris, and France in general. We now have 3 quite recently added workbooks from French members! I try to speak broken French when I travel there, but it's pretty poor, so it's convenient that you all have great English skills.





> I have a good DR going from 1 dream when I don't journal seriously to a max of 6-7 (lots of awakenings) with an average of 4 when I practice diligently. I used to write down each time I woke up but lately I relied a lot on my vocal recorder. It's convenient because I don't skip on recording my dreams just because I feel drowsy. However, I feel like it's himpering my DR since I don't have to focus so much on the dream I just speak quickly and I'm done. I feel that when I write (since we write slower than we think) I recall a lot more details and the recorded dreams make more sense on paper.



Yes, I read an article this month regarding a study that showed this is the case. Just google: psyblog^handwriting
The same psyblog site has two articles regarding drawing images and visualizing images as being great for memory recall and avoiding false memories. That said, I also use voice to record my DJ. I use a voice to text function.





> I'm focusing on the MILD technique, although for the first year I didn't chose one and therefore I took a lot of time before having my first LD. I'm DJing, training my prospective memory with targets I have to notice everyday. I also like the ADA, SA approach since I've always had a strong interest in meditation (esp. zazen) and more recently mindfulness. 
> 
> I'm a fairly anxious individual and I tend to put too much stress on things, that would be a good thing to know! I always try to bite more than I can chew and I lack consistency in my efforts and motivation.



Mindfulness is great for slowly working through the anxiety and stress as you get better and better at catching those processes before they start to really affect you. Focus on breathing is also great for stress as you will find that you notice when you are starting to breath shallow and/or fast, as is common when we are stressed out. Regarding techniques, I alternate between MILD and SSILD. SSILD gave me most of my LD's, but I was mostly only doing SSILD (as my nighttime practice that is) for the first 1.5 to 2 years I'd say. Of course I was doing a lot of day practices as well (and I still do a good number of day practices).





> In the first year I had 2-3 LDs. During my second year I had around 8. 3 in april. I feel like I had a major breakthrough because I induced 2 of them and I've had more prelucid dreams (with hints or clues). I didn't really find what worked for me and that's one of the reasons why I'm creating my workbook here.



Very nice! What do you feel was helping you most with your breakthrough? Tracking your progress and what works for you here in the workbook is a great idea, and of course we can give you feedback as well. 





> I'm really happy to be part of this community and to be able to communicate with its members! I hope I'll be able to provide as much help as I've received just by going through posts 
> 
> Thanks for giving us rookies such a good opportunity to learn to be lucid!



Glad to have you as part of this community! Here's to many lucid dreaming experiences ahead!  :smiley:

----------


## Raziiel

I just wanted to say thank you for helping me and good luck  :smiley: 
I hope this Workbook will help you  :smiley:

----------


## FryingMan

Welcome to the DILD class!   Quick note: I used to both voice record upon waking *and* transcribe the notes to written form later in the day.  When I was doing both I got lucid fairly frequently (according to my usual frequency).   And the notes were very detailed and the recall was long.   So doing both I think is really beneficial.

What I found was that in doing this, I very often did not need to even refer to the voice notes in order to write up the journal entry perfectly.   Something about speaking in to the recorder helped to really burn the memories into my mind, even across multiple wakings. 

Now, more often I try to journal mentally during the night so that I remember my dreams through multiple wakings in the morning.   Doesn't always work perfectly, but I find that with doing this for a while, I got better at it over time.

The point of this is that I believe it is the act of mentally reviewing the dream many times in your head that is the single most important part of building recall, more than speaking, more than writing in a DJ.

Sometimes I just try to remember a single image from each scene, and often that's enough to recall the entire scene and flow of scenes in detail.    Together with the mental image I apply a key word or a phrase, then run over the list of key words/phrases repeatedly, "seeing" the image that goes with the phrase as I go over them.

Those are some various ways you can approach recall.   

If you haven't yet, check out the sticky posts at the top of this class on some really good forum theads to read about.  I also have some links in my signature that I think are very helpful, check 'em out!

----------


## Pornocrates

> Nice to see you have created a workbook Pornocrates. Welcome!  I love traveling to Paris, and France in general. We now have 3 quite recently added workbooks from French members! I try to speak broken French when I travel there, but it's pretty poor, so it's convenient that you all have great English skills.



I didn't notice the third one, I'll be sure to check it out! Well, if you ever want to test your french with me, it'd be a pleasure! Thanks for the compliment, I've been training my english for a while now (plus: I'm a language learning enthusiast)!





> Yes, I read an article this month regarding a study that showed this is the case. Just google: psyblog^handwriting
> The same psyblog site has two articles regarding drawing images and visualizing images as being great for memory recall and avoiding false memories. That said, I also use voice to record my DJ. I use a voice to text function.



Thanks for the articles, I just found one about memory and handwriting, it was really interesting. I might try to use my voice recorder only when I feel really too drowsy to write anything but yeah I think I'll get back to writing (at least the next day), because right now I've got 2 weeks worth of dreams to record in my DJ (I'm really good at procrastinating  :Cheeky: )... I could try to find an app with a voice to text function as well!





> Mindfulness is great for slowly working through the anxiety and stress as you get better and better at catching those processes before they start to really affect you. Focus on breathing is also great for stress as you will find that you notice when you are starting to breath shallow and/or fast, as is common when we are stressed out. Regarding techniques, I alternate between MILD and SSILD. SSILD gave me most of my LD's, but I was mostly only doing SSILD (as my nighttime practice that is) for the first 1.5 to 2 years I'd say. Of course I was doing a lot of day practices as well (and I still do a good number of day practices).



Yeah it is, I've been using it for stress reduction (currently reading _Full catastrophe living: how to cope with stress, pain and illness using mindfulness meditation_ by Jon Kabat-Zinn) and I practice buddhist meditation (Zazen) from time to time, but even though you shouldn't put stress on meditation I know that a consistent practice would really help me with pretty much everything. Is it true that in regards to LDing, Self Awareness is far more important than the technique described as ADA, or just plain mindfulness? I have hard time grabbing the concept of SA, and I don't really know how to practice it. SSILD looks definitelty interesting so I might give it a shot to get a bit of variety in my induction techniques.





> Very nice! What do you feel was helping you most with your breakthrough? Tracking your progress and what works for you here in the workbook is a great idea, and of course we can give you feedback as well.



Well first I think it's linked to the fact that I've been using autosuggestion techniques a lot more, mantras like "I'm dreaming" before going to sleep, I find that if I managed to keep saying it until I fell asleep, lucidity is not hard to attain. The thing is until recently it always kept me awake and I thought it wasn't a good thing so I stopped and focused on falling asleep before trying again but I always forgot. But a few weeks ago, I thought "Okay, let's do this thoroughly" and it eventually worked!





> Glad to have you as part of this community! Here's to many lucid dreaming experiences ahead!



Thank you a lot, I really hope so!

----------


## Pornocrates

> I just wanted to say thank you for helping me and good luck 
> I hope this Workbook will help you



Thank you a lot Raziiel and don't mention it, I learnt a lot from you workbook!  :smiley:

----------


## Pornocrates

> Welcome to the DILD class!   Quick note: I used to both voice record upon waking *and* transcribe the notes to written form later in the day.  When I was doing both I got lucid fairly frequently (according to my usual frequency).   And the notes were very detailed and the recall was long.   So doing both I think is really beneficial.
> 
> What I found was that in doing this, I very often did not need to even refer to the voice notes in order to write up the journal entry perfectly.   Something about speaking in to the recorder helped to really burn the memories into my mind, even across multiple wakings. 
> 
> Now, more often I try to journal mentally during the night so that I remember my dreams through multiple wakings in the morning.   Doesn't always work perfectly, but I find that with doing this for a while, I got better at it over time.
> 
> The point of this is that I believe it is the act of mentally reviewing the dream many times in your head that is the single most important part of building recall, more than speaking, more than writing in a DJ.
> 
> Sometimes I just try to remember a single image from each scene, and often that's enough to recall the entire scene and flow of scenes in detail.    Together with the mental image I apply a key word or a phrase, then run over the list of key words/phrases repeatedly, "seeing" the image that goes with the phrase as I go over them.
> ...



I've already read a few but I'll be sure to check the others!
Well for example I tried to memorize last night's dreams but couldn't remember something more than "destruction". Thing is I often remember a lot of stuff but I'm really bad at lying on my bed still and trying to gasp what I lost. Most of the time, a few bits come back while I'm just going along with the day. The image/dream association could help a lot, I'll try! In my last DJ I try to write correctly, so I rewrite the dreams or I record them the next day, I don't always find the courage to write afterwards but at least it feels really nice to read through the DJ!

BTW, thanks for the answers guys!

----------


## FryingMan

Recall gets better with practice!  Once your mind finally catches on that recall is very important to you, you'll start remembering more, as long as you make a habit on every waking to reach for the memories first thing. Consistency and dedication are important.

Also be sure to check out Zinn's other book "wherever you go there you are: mindfulness meditation in everyday life."

I think for lucid dreaming, mindfulness and self awareness are largely the same thing.  After all, they're all about determining/recognizing the truth of your current experience.   But for lucid dreaming, additionally, you need to add in a sense of critical reflection along with strong intention to get lucid in the dream state.
That's wh I emphasize the Winning formula consists of: attention, reflection, and recall.

I'm not a fan of traditional ADA since it places the emphasis outside the self on the environment.

I like to say instead practice AAD: aware, all day  :smiley:

----------


## Pornocrates

> Recall gets better with practice!  Once your mind finally catches on that recall is very important to you, you'll start remembering more, as long as you make a habit on every waking to reach for the memories first thing. Consistency and dedication are important.
> 
> Also be sure to check out Zinn's other book "wherever you go there you are: mindfulness meditation in everyday life."
> 
> I think for lucid dreaming, mindfulness and self awareness are largely the same thing.  After all, they're all about determining/recognizing the truth of your current experience.   But for lucid dreaming, additionally, you need to add in a sense of critical reflection along with strong intention to get lucid in the dream state.
> That's wh I emphasize the Winning formula consists of: attention, reflection, and recall.
> 
> I'm not a fan of traditional ADA since it places the emphasis outside the self on the environment.
> 
> I like to say instead practice AAD: aware, all day



Thanks FryingMan, as always great piece of advice!  I might make my LDing practice revolve much more around mindfulness, meditation and awareness: two birds, 1 stone. 

Anyway, for the the next month I will focus on DR and awareness and cut down a bit on MILD and LDing induction in general, finals in 2 weeks.  ::whyohwhy::  :Oh noes:  ::whyohwhy::  That way, I'll come back at full power for the holidays.

----------


## FryingMan

We all must account for waking life responsibilities and duties.   But a hint: there is no better time to have an "mindful moment" than when deeply involved in something.   Because that's what happens in dreams usually: we're so immersed in the plot and reacting that we never stop to consider what's going on and whether or not this is a dream experience.     Set realistic goals, but for example, try to do at least one "deep breath lucid moment" while in the middle of a test.   Just set that goal, and see if you can't achieve it.   That would be a major accomplishment!

----------


## Raziiel

> We all must account for waking life responsibilities and duties.   But a hint: there is no better time to have an "mindful moment" than when deeply involved in something.   Because that's what happens in dreams usually: we're so immersed in the plot and reacting that we never stop to consider what's going on and whether or not this is a dream experience.     Set realistic goals, but for example, try to do at least one "deep breath lucid moment" while in the middle of a test.   Just set that goal, and see if you can't achieve it.   That would be a major accomplishment!



I think that's the most important part of mindfulness, staying mindful while doing something that requires all your attention and I really believe that if you manage to do that a lot, you'll get way more LDs  :smiley: 
I'm saying that to you but I can't even do it ^^
I made an internship and I need to write an activity report, I'm trying to stay mindful while working on it but I always forget that and go in autopilot mode for hours and then I realize that I was lost in my thought ^^

----------


## FryingMan

I think it's great, by the way, that the new DILD class members are actively participating on each other's pages.   Making lucid buddies to help keep each other motivated and giving each other challenges and support is very helpful!   The several Parisians may even make a goal to meet up (perhaps for a few boules at Berthillon on Ile St. Louis?   Best ice cream ever!)  J'ai etudie Francais cinque ans dans l'ecole, mais oublie presque tout!

I find that I can remain mindful during non-taxing activities most of the time after working on it (on and off) for a few years now.  It's the 1) conversations, and 2) intellectual work situations where I frequently lose it.    So yes, it's the times where you tend to go on autopilot where you need to put the most effort.   It takes time, but eventually your brain will start to notice, more and more, when you've lost it and give you a little nudge, "hey, it's time to come back now!    Attention is pretty darned good with me.    It's the reflection where I'm lacking much of the time.   So that's more of my focus these days.    

Something else to all the new class members: setting concrete goals is really important (this is also from LaBerge).   When our brain's goal-seeking center is active, it can really help get you lucid (and achieve other goals as well).   For example: my "average" LD rate is about 1 LD per 5-6 days.   But at the last 10 days of February I set a goal to have 10 LDs.   I ended up having 6, 6 LDs/10 days is really good for me.  I had set really strong intention and made this a very important goal for me.    Intention, focus, goals, these are another aspect of LD practice, just as important in many ways as the "big 3" (attention/awareness, critical reflection, and recall/memory).

----------


## fogelbise

> I have hard time grabbing the concept of SA, and I don't really know how to practice it. SSILD looks definitelty interesting so I might give it a shot to get a bit of variety in my induction techniques.



On SSILD: yes, definitely give it a good 30 day test once you are ready. On SA: I notice that when I stop practicing SA, if I become lucid it is closer to the semi-lucid end of the spectrum and more prone to forgetting that I am dreaming shortly after. It does take some time to grasp. One thing that helped me in a way that I don't completely understand is the finger(s) on face or nose technique mentioned in the "My lucid dreaming journey" link in my signature.





> Well first I think it's linked to the fact that I've been using autosuggestion techniques a lot more, mantras like "I'm dreaming" before going to sleep, I find that if I managed to keep saying it until I fell asleep, lucidity is not hard to attain. The thing is until recently it always kept me awake and I thought it wasn't a good thing so I stopped and focused on falling asleep before trying again but I always forgot. But a few weeks ago, I thought "Okay, let's do this thoroughly" and it eventually worked!



Nice! A lot of induction techniques work in this way. You just have to find the way to make them work for you through trial and error.

----------


## Pornocrates

> We all must account for waking life responsibilities and duties.   But a hint: there is no better time to have an "mindful moment" than when deeply involved in something.   Because that's what happens in dreams usually: we're so immersed in the plot and reacting that we never stop to consider what's going on and whether or not this is a dream experience.     Set realistic goals, but for example, try to do at least one "deep breath lucid moment" while in the middle of a test.   Just set that goal, and see if you can't achieve it.   That would be a major accomplishment!







> I think that's the most important part of mindfulness, staying mindful while doing something that requires all your attention and I really believe that if you manage to do that a lot, you'll get way more LDs
> I'm saying that to you but I can't even do it ^^
> I made an internship and I need to write an activity report, I'm trying to stay mindful while working on it but I always forget that and go in autopilot mode for hours and then I realize that I was lost in my thought ^^



I always do, that's one of the main goals I set when RCing, whenever I fell strong emotions when I feel I'm completely focused on something I RC!  :smiley: 
However I should maybe pay more attention to it, I've been spending too much time on auto pilot lately!

----------


## Pornocrates

> I think it's great, by the way, that the new DILD class members are actively participating on each other's pages.   Making lucid buddies to help keep each other motivated and giving each other challenges and support is very helpful!   The several Parisians may even make a goal to meet up (perhaps for a few boules at Berthillon on Ile St. Louis?   Best ice cream ever!)  J'ai etudie Francais cinque ans dans l'ecole, mais oublie presque tout!
> 
> I find that I can remain mindful during non-taxing activities most of the time after working on it (on and off) for a few years now.  It's the 1) conversations, and 2) intellectual work situations where I frequently lose it.    So yes, it's the times where you tend to go on autopilot where you need to put the most effort.   It takes time, but eventually your brain will start to notice, more and more, when you've lost it and give you a little nudge, "hey, it's time to come back now!    Attention is pretty darned good with me.    It's the reflection where I'm lacking much of the time.   So that's more of my focus these days.    
> 
> Something else to all the new class members: setting concrete goals is really important (this is also from LaBerge).   When our brain's goal-seeking center is active, it can really help get you lucid (and achieve other goals as well).   For example: my "average" LD rate is about 1 LD per 5-6 days.   But at the last 10 days of February I set a goal to have 10 LDs.   I ended up having 6, 6 LDs/10 days is really good for me.  I had set really strong intention and made this a very important goal for me.    Intention, focus, goals, these are another aspect of LD practice, just as important in many ways as the "big 3" (attention/awareness, critical reflection, and recall/memory).



I need yet to talk with the other parisian, but Raziiel and I met on the chat! I think it's a great idea too, it's highly motivating and really great to see the others improving! Nice french Fryingman!  :smiley:  (Berthillon is delicious indeed!) A meet up would be nice!

Conversations are really hard I tried for a while but it's really challenging...

I remember this chapter from ETWOLD, I did set some goals in the past and it helped a bit but I never focused too much on these goals, wasn't serious about it I guess. Do you intend your goal like some king of mantra? 
Btw, about mantras, I might have a question! How do you do when you want to set multiple intentions? For example: remember dreams, recognize awakening and RC, have a LD, resting and not sleeping, etc, etc... And do you try to always keep the same phrasing for your mantras? I find myself doubting about my personal mantras and changing them i don't know if it's important!

----------


## Pornocrates

> On SSILD: yes, definitely give it a good 30 day test once you are ready. On SA: I notice that when I stop practicing SA, if I become lucid it is closer to the semi-lucid end of the spectrum and more prone to forgetting that I am dreaming shortly after. It does take some time to grasp. One thing that helped me in a way that I don't completely understand is the finger(s) on face or nose technique mentioned in the "My lucid dreaming journey" link in my signature.
> 
> Nice! A lot of induction techniques work in this way. You just have to find the way to make them work for you through trial and error.



I might dedicate may to SSILD, until then no induction techniques  :smiley:  SA is really great I can feel it working but it's challenging, I was really stressed the last days because of my exams so sometimes when I realized I  haven't been doing SA I get really discouraged and I feel like there's no point (I know it's related to the exams only but it still gets to me :/).
Do you mean the moustache stroking one? I'm not sure I read the good thing haha!

That's right, you learn way more from failure than from success (success is nice though...  :Cheeky: )!

I got lucid at the end of my night (around 10-10:30), it lasted only a few moments, something weird happened. I was highly conscious I remembered my goal and I had difficulty going through a window (that's a good indicated of the degree of consciousness, in semi lucids I don't ask myself these questions, I don't struggle to control the dream), but even though I was already grounded once I flew to a rooftop I decided to stabilize by looking at my hands, they were all wobbly, I looked for a few seconds and woke up. It often does that in fully lucids but it went really fast this time! I think I woke up because my gf moved.

Anyway, I'm really happy I had a LD though, I didn't even use my "I'm dreaming mantra" instead I stretched to get the tension out (on of the exercices in ETWLD not the points one), I did some conscious breathing and then I used a mantra I found in one of the posts Fryingman recommends, I think it was Memm's post, the mantra was "I'm resting, not sleeping and forgetting"!

Yay! :Bliss:

----------


## fogelbise

> Do you mean the moustache stroking one? I'm not sure I read the good thing haha!



Yes, that is the one.





> I got lucid at the end of my night (around 10-10:30), it lasted only a few moments, something weird happened. I was highly conscious I remembered my goal and I had difficulty going through a window (that's a good indicated of the degree of consciousness, in semi lucids I don't ask myself these questions, I don't struggle to control the dream), but even though I was already grounded once I flew to a rooftop I decided to stabilize by looking at my hands, they were all wobbly, I looked for a few seconds and woke up. It often does that in fully lucids but it went really fast this time! I think I woke up because my gf moved.
> 
> Anyway, I'm really happy I had a LD though, I didn't even use my "I'm dreaming mantra" instead I stretched to get the tension out (on of the exercices in ETWLD not the points one), I did some conscious breathing and then I used a mantra I found in one of the posts Fryingman recommends, I think it was Memm's post, the mantra was "I'm resting, not sleeping and forgetting"!
> 
> Yay!



Awesome! Congratulations on the LD!!  ::D:  Just imagine what you can do when the stress is behind you!

----------


## Pornocrates

> Yes, that is the one.
> 
> Awesome! Congratulations on the LD!!  Just imagine what you can do when the stress is behind you!



I'll give it a try! Thanks  :smiley:  Yeah I'm sure it will be easier; I've been having LDs almost weekly during this month (apart from the second week)  :Cheeky: 

I might make a summary of April with the number of dreams recorded, LDs, and the dream signs. I still have to write down 27 nights worth of dreams (geez...)...

*Last night*

_I prepared my DJ entry, stretched. I was in bed around 0:30 and slept around 1, 1'30. (Two nights ago: 3'30-4, yesterday: ~2)
I used some mantras: 
-I'm having intense and interesting dreams and I remember them.
-I notice wakings and I check if I'm dreaming
-Resting, not sleeping and forgetting.

I woke up around 7 and remembered a dream but I was too tired to write it down. I decided to try SSILD but I was too tired for it as well, I did 2 cycles, stopped and fell asleep. When I finally woke up around 8, I couldn't remember my dream so I tried to but couldn't remain still and focused enough (I'm still tired and really bad a the "lie and remember" thing._

I guess I'm just readjusting my sleeping schedules, it should be better during the week, esp because I'll be sleeping by myself, and when I do I'm far less concerned by getting up in the middle of the night, put on lights and all.  :smiley:

----------


## Habba

> I'll give it a try! Thanks  Yeah I'm sure it will be easier; I've been having LDs almost weekly during this month (apart from the second week) 
> 
> I might make a summary of April with the number of dreams recorded, LDs, and the dream signs. I still have to write down 27 nights worth of dreams (geez...)...
> 
> *Last night*
> 
> _I prepared my DJ entry, stretched. I was in bed around 0:30 and slept around 1, 1'30. (Two nights ago: 3'30-4, yesterday: ~2)
> I used some mantras: 
> -I'm having intense and interesting dreams and I remember them.
> ...



2 is better than none, right?

I was doing SSILD last night also, got through the short cycles but as soon I hit the longer ones I fell asleep  ::rolllaugh::

----------


## Centroid

> 2 is better than none, right?
> 
> I was doing SSILD last night also, got through the short cycles but as soon I hit the longer ones I fell asleep




Haha, exact same thing happened to me  :Cheeky: 

Looked it up, solution:
-wake up later 
-spend more time awake 
-perform the cycles with slightly more aggression (optional, can cause insomnia)

Good luck!

----------


## Habba

> Haha, exact same thing happened to me 
> 
> Looked it up, solution:
> -wake up later 
> -spend more time awake 
> -perform the cycles with slightly more aggression (optional, can cause insomnia)
> 
> Good luck!



I spent some time awake, went to the toilet, got a glass of water, me being an idiot spilled it all over my bed  :laugh:  for me, falling asleep while performing the cycles is the way for me because i end up mostly having a FA.

----------


## Pornocrates

Habba: I actually didn't finish the first cycle, did the the short sight and sound ones and then I stopped. :p

I think falling asleep during the cycles is a good thing (but I mainly use MILD so that might be a mistake and not that great with SSILD), but it's better to really focus for a few cycles before I guess!

----------


## Pornocrates

*As for today's practice:*

-I feel like stopping the PMT (Prospective Memory Training) really helped, I was too focused on it and put too much stress. Plus I didn't really like it, I find it kinda draining and frustrating.

-SA is great but even though I have a feeling I'm getting familiar with while practicing it I'm not sure about what and how I should check, I'm a bit confused.
I focus on my feelings, emotions, sensations and thoughts; I try to look around myself in wonder but I don't know what kind of mantra I should use.
Also when I RC I always feel like I do it too early or not properly. I need to make a habit of RCing at the end.

----------


## Pornocrates

*02/05 => 03/05 's night*

I recall 4 dreams, some of them are fragments but I'm glad to see that when I put efforts in DR, my brain gets it! However I'm good at getting the plots but not details like the set up of places, faces, clothes, etc, etc... I'm going to try my best to improve my DR so as to properly and thoroughly describe the whole dream scene and characters.

I used my voice recorder, I still can't find the courage to grab my DJ and write, I'm going to put more emphasis on remaining still when waking up (might devote more attention to a mantra for this purpose)!

----------


## fogelbise

> I think falling asleep during the cycles is a good thing (but I mainly use MILD so that might be a mistake and not that great with SSILD), but it's better to really focus for a few cycles before I guess!



CosmicIron says to not mix anything with SSILD as you lay back down after a WBTB, and that may be the best until you really get SSILD working for you, but I do sometimes mix in MILD and/or mantras when the HHs start appearing. This was much later though, well after successfully using SSILD and then my variation of SSILD for quite a while. It seems that MILD and mantras are more powerful when your mind is getting into those early stages of sleep (that are often accompanied by HHs).





> *As for today's practice:*
> 
> -I feel like stopping the PMT (Prospective Memory Training) really helped, I was too focused on it and put too much stress. Plus I didn't really like it, I find it kinda draining and frustrating.
> 
> -SA is great but even though I have a feeling I'm getting familiar with while practicing it I'm not sure about what and how I should check, I'm a bit confused.
> I focus on my feelings, emotions, sensations and thoughts; I try to look around myself in wonder but I don't know what kind of mantra I should use.
> Also when I RC I always feel like I do it too early or not properly. I need to make a habit of RCing at the end.



-That seems like a good choice for you. I made a similar decision early on. If anything is draining and frustrating, it is better to take a break from that particular training and focus on things that fit you better.

-SA: check out Sageous' recent post and see if it helps you. I think it is very worthwhile: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2193957

----------


## Pornocrates

> CosmicIron says to not mix anything with SSILD as you lay back down after a WBTB, and that may be the best until you really get SSILD working for you, but I do sometimes mix in MILD and/or mantras when the HHs start appearing. This was much later though, well after successfully using SSILD and then my variation of SSILD for quite a while. It seems that MILD and mantras are more powerful when your mind is getting into those early stages of sleep (that are often accompanied by HHs).
> 
> -That seems like a good choice for you. I made a similar decision early on. If anything is draining and frustrating, it is better to take a break from that particular training and focus on things that fit you better.
> 
> -SA: check out Sageous' recent post and see if it helps you. I think it is very worthwhile: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2193957



I didn't really practice SSILD, tried maybe once during the week, but couldn't focus on it, plus I had bad sleeping schedules so apart DJing I haven't been doing much  :Cheeky: 

I still feel it was a good decision, which is really rare for me haha

Thanks for the reading fogelbise!

----------


## Pornocrates

*Summary of the rest of the week:*

-I had a hard time bringing myself to bed before at least 1-2 AM during this week (stress often does that, if I feel I haven't done enough during the day I don't want to move to the next day) and lots of nights around 7 hours of sleep (that's not much, I need around 8-9 to be fully operative). The thing is if I try to go to sleep early it would take me from 1 to 3-4 hours to fall asleep (even after really short nights, guess it's just about my mindset then), and another weird phenomenon, I've been waking up sometimes 6 hours after going to bed completely alert but kinda frustrated.

-DR is coming back, I remember at least 2 dreams on short nights and up to 5 (only 2 with details) but I wasn't preparing myself properly to sleep and not doing any mantras and all. I'm getting really vivid dreams again and it's really nice, I've been wanting those more than LDs!

-I RCed this night although I'm not sure if I was awake or I failed my RC, I did the nose plug and the finger through the palm. Looks like my mind likes to be lucid on Sunday  :smiley: 

-As for SA, I try to make my practice natural, sometimes I think about doing SA practice all of a sudden.
Also I get these feelings during the day where I am naturally aware, I try not to stress it too much though.

*In conclusion*

Although I'm a bit nervous for my finals I'm doing some really good progress in getting back my DR, slowly returning to writing in my journal instead of recording vocally! Regular sleep schedules would change everything I'm sure of it, I really want to get some consistency!

----------


## Pornocrates

Last night I slept from ~2 to 9'30, recalled one long dream and a fragment (just a word actually, but had a particular feeling linked to it).

I clearly didn't sleep enough, although sometimes I happen to recall at least 3-4 dreams with the same amount of sleep.
I'd really like to go to bed earlier but when I do I can't sleep and most of the time I don't feel like going to bed before 1 AM. I wanted to try a MILD byt going back to bed after my waking but in the end didn't. 

Thing is I put aside most of my activities:
I haven't been going to the gym in the last 2 weeks, and not really trying to induce LDs (even autosuggestion which is supposed to be my "chill LDing mode") because I decided to take a break to have more time to study... Obviously I didn't study more and I ended up getting all jittery because of the lack of activity (I kinda need sport to be able to calm down and focus).

I wanted to stop trying to induce LDs in order to avoid sleeping in (until noon). Concerning sport/gym: it's because although it takes maybe around 2 hours three times a week, I procrastinate and end up lazying around a lot before finding the courage and energy to go there. So the biggest problem I'm facing IWL which is brainblocking my LDs is (self) discipline obviously. I'm not satisfied with what I do during the day and end up in a vicious cycle, not doing any good for myself. (Sorry for the rant, I'm really angry against myself because I can't make progress, I'm always going in every directions at the same time...)

I'm really confused about something else as well: 
Should I go to bed  early or is ~1 ok? I know the most important thing is to have set schedules but I can't seem to keep them, and I'm kind of a night owl. 
Idk if you can switch to early bird mode or if there are somewhat "profound natures" = Like I could sleep everyday around 10-11 PM and wake up around 7-8 but it would always be forced and the only mistake would mess up with the whole rhythm. If someone has/ has had the same issue and maybe found something (article, methode, etc) I'd be really interested. It would help not only for my LDing practice but also for my whole WL!

What I'm thinking about is maybe:
*6:30* eat dinner
*7:00 => 9:30* study
*10:00* go to bed, read and meditation/relaxation
*11:00* Sleep
*5:00 to 6:00 or 6:30 to 7:30* WBTB
*8-9* Waking up

This would be hard to set up and obviously it's just a draft (I have yet to determine the best time to sleep for me, the best time to do WBTB and how long). As for the schedules, I'm in Uni and soon on holiday so I have a lot of time and rarely need to wake up early.

*TL;DR* I'm really pumped about LDing and have been for more than two years with some success but I lack discipline, consistent efforts and obviously my WL issues are not helping. Need help with organization...

----------


## Pornocrates

*Another thing*

I have recurrent dream signs like:
-My father's house and village
-All my schools
-Some people I don't see anymore

I can easily RC when I go to my uni but I mostly see my elementary school, my middle school and my high school, should I just RC when I see any school?
And for the persons I don't see? Should I just RC when I think about them? 
What about my father's house (I spent almost all my childhood in this house and it's been one of my dream signs since I began recording my dreams and overall the most recurrent one), how should i use it?

----------


## Pornocrates

I also think my LD goal might be way too difficult considering my dream control abilities.
I've been trying to incube when I go to sleep and when I RC (visualization) my dream workshop, I've pictured it so many times that I know the basic layout by heart. I chose the workshop, it's a big empty tree in a forest, inside: platforms, rooms, stairs and a cave with hot springs (It's a bit cliché and "Adventure Timesque" but I really like it, it gets me so excited and motivated to LD and there are many more things and ideas to come). I imagined myself in it or discovering it so many times that I actually built it mentally and therefore I know it's gonna be really close to what I picture. However, I had 2 LDs where I thought about going there but it requires too much control for me.

Should I switch to a more basic task like the ToTM first ones? Would it be possible that it actually blocks me since it is too difficult for now?

----------


## FryingMan

As to when to go to sleep -- you have to experiment.   I find the earlier I go to sleep (and the longer I sleep), the more/better dreams I have, in general.    I do not have issues going to sleep at bedtime, I usually fall asleep quickly.   

As to when to RC: I think you should RC any time you *feel* like you should.  Always pay attention to that impulse to check your state.

For frequent dream signs, I think doing daytime visualization/MILD helps.    Visualize yourself in recent dreams or in the frequent location, see yourself in the dream noticing the dreamsign and telling yourself "I'm dreaming!   I"m dreaming!   I'm dreaming!" and going on to accomplish some LD goal.
"

----------


## Pornocrates

> As to when to go to sleep -- you have to experiment.   I find the earlier I go to sleep (and the longer I sleep), the more/better dreams I have, in general.    I do not have issues going to sleep at bedtime, I usually fall asleep quickly.   
> 
> As to when to RC: I think you should RC any time you *feel* like you should.  Always pay attention to that impulse to check your state.
> 
> For frequent dream signs, I think doing daytime visualization/MILD helps.    Visualize yourself in recent dreams or in the frequent location, see yourself in the dream noticing the dreamsign and telling yourself "I'm dreaming!   I"m dreaming!   I'm dreaming!" and going on to accomplish some LD goal.



I wanted to do that during the last holidays I had, so I figure I would just try to avoid screens at night and that I wouldn't set alarms in order to find the best schedules but Idk if it's the way to go? Would you have any idea how to know your natural circadian rythm?

What I do when I find that I don't RC enough, is that I write a "C" on my hand and every time I see it I RC. I find myself really wondering if I'm awake when I RC, I don't consider not being dreaming or almost not.

Good idea for the visualization with frequent dream signs, I don't know why I didn't think of that...

Thanks as always FryingMan, btw I've been reading a bit of your DILD course workbook, it's really motivating to see someone as diligent as you with such good progress since the beginning!

----------


## fogelbise

Yes, dream sign visualization can be successful. I would just focus on the one most common dream sign that you can visualize clearly. I have used it successfully, mostly during WBTB or just before going to bed.

On the waking life and sleep issues, I don't have a lot of experience or expertise but for sleep see if this article helps: 10 Tips to Reset Your Internal Clock - Sleep Center - Everyday Health (seems the site is not selling anything but ads)

On the waking life issues, you mentioned getting angry at yourself. Catching any negative thought loops can be helped through mindfulness and meditation.  Try to not criticize or judge yourself, just try to catch yourself when you are not thinking or acting optimallymore like "I was thinking this wayah...good catch!" Not "I was thinking this way, why am I always making that mistake." It takes time for sure and simple breathing exercises help also. You will notice your breathing patterns change when you are not at the optimal state. A simple one exercise to start with is breathing in goodness, and breathing out any negatives with a cleansing breath. It can do wonders.

----------


## Pornocrates

> Yes, dream sign visualization can be successful. I would just focus on the one most common dream sign that you can visualize clearly. I have used it successfully, mostly during WBTB or just before going to bed.
> 
> On the waking life and sleep issues, I don't have a lot of experience or expertise but for sleep see if this article helps: 10 Tips to Reset Your Internal Clock - Sleep Center - Everyday Health (seems the site is not selling anything but ads)
> 
> On the waking life issues, you mentioned getting angry at yourself. Catching any negative thought loops can be helped through mindfulness and meditation.  Try to not criticize or judge yourself, just try to catch yourself when you are not thinking or acting optimally…more like "I was thinking this way…ah...good catch!" Not "I was thinking this way, why am I always making that mistake." It takes time for sure and simple breathing exercises help also. You will notice your breathing patterns change when you are not at the optimal state. A simple one exercise to start with is breathing in goodness, and breathing out any negatives with a cleansing breath. It can do wonders.



Thanks for your answer fogelbise!

I will make it part of my pre-sleep routine then, visualizing myself getting lucid in my hometown.

These tips are great thank you, some of them I found on a documentary this afternoon, something interesting is "The three 9":
-9 hours of sleep
-No screens after 9
-No work/school before nine

My first steps will be, no screens at least 2 hours before bed, and set schedules. The morning is difficult I always want one more sleep cycle...

I need to get a grip on these emotions, most of the time I can't really think straight because of these. Mindfulness and meditation help me but when you're driven by sadness/anger/anxiety it's really hard to bring yourself to do those. Anyway it always helps and I need to fully assimilate this principle. Thanks a lot for your support fogelbise!  :smiley:

----------


## Pornocrates

Time to really get back to LDing!

I didn't try to induce for a month due to my exams but I kept DJing except for a few days where I was too tired. Therefore, my DR is not as strong as it was in April.

I kinda have a plan to follow in order to put things in order:
I'm going to focus on regular sleep schedules for the next week (or 2 weeks) as I always felt it was preventing me from having more LDs. And also recall, I'd like to try to reach a lot, like 6 and more every night, I know I can do it, just gotta set the intention and manage my schedules. However I won't give up on induction, I'm on holidays so I have all the time I want, I will nap and try WILD as well. I will also keep on focusing meditation/SA/mindfulness. I'm so pumped up!

----------


## fogelbise

Nice, summer breaks! Those were the days! When you are really feeling it, maybe spend a lot of time reading the well reviewed lucid dreaming books and perhaps outlining plans for your night ahead among other things, but be sure the ease off a little if you are feeling like you are tiring of the subject so that you can maintain some level of LD practices throughout your summer break. Towards the end of the break perhaps you can formulate a plan for integrating some level of LD practices even amongst your busiest periods of studies and exams. Just some ideas. Hope to see you around  :smiley:

----------


## Pornocrates

Thank you for your precious advice fogelbise.  :smiley:  
Would you have some good recommendations? I already read ETWOLD and Gateway to the Inner self.

I don't really know why but I have a hard time bringing myself to bed before at least 2AM and when I do I'm too tired to focus on anything. I try to repeat to myself "I'm dreaming" but it keeps me awake. I definitely need to get better habits concerning health: sleep, exercising and all.

I didn't sleep much last night, will try to go to bed before 1. Until I sort ou my sleep schedules my main work will be DR, mindfulness (got a nice app with a bell ringing regularly in order to bring my self to the moment) and setting intentions!

----------


## FryingMan

I really liked "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep"   It's sort of the ultimate book that started it all, you'll be amazed at all the of the parallels modern-day LDing practice has compared to the Tibetan practice.   They basically invented LD practice: daytime awareness, night-time intention, WBTB, dream recall, WILD.

Good sleep and a calm, positive mental attitude are pretty important.    So is timing.

I also can't fall asleep to a mantra.    Try alternating between breaths with the mantra and some breaths without the mantra, perhaps decreasing the frequency of the mantra as you go, like,:

1, I'm dreaming
2
3 I'm dreaming
4
5
6 I"m dreaming
7
8
9 I'm dreaming
10
11
12 I'm dreaming
13
14
15
16 I'm dreaming
17
18
19
20 I'm dreaming

so that you tail off the frequency of the mantra the more relaxed you get.

----------


## fogelbise

^See FM's post, if you haven't yet.  :smiley:  I think there are also a good number of books that will add to your knowledge and keep your mind on lucid dreaming (you can read 10 minutes at a time if you want to). As long as they aren't full of misinformation. I think the ratings on Amazon give you a decent idea but some others are Daniel Love's Are You Dreaming (I enjoyed it. He is giving away a free e-copy, though not sure when you get it, for contributing at any level for his Kickstarter campaign and sharing his campaign on social media, seemingly for as little as 1 British Pound). I also enjoyed the 2 you mentioned. Waggoner also has Lucid Dreaming, Plain and Simple but I have only gotten to chapter 2. Field Guide to Lucid Dreaming seems good for mostly beginners. There are some good ebooks I have seen online like The Ultimate Lucid Dreamers Manual as well as Advanced Lucid Dreaming - The Power of Supplements (has some useful opening information before it goes into supplement info if you aren't interested in the supplement side). I'm quite sure there is a thread somewhere on DV where people discuss LD books but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

----------


## Pornocrates

"The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep"? I have a sample on my kindle but never fully read it, I will change that!

Hum calm attitude is not on of my traits, I've had a lot on my mind recently and that's the reason why I can't focus on pretty much anything. I am sometimes able to fall asleep with a mantra and in this case I have a LD or at least vivid dreams but I feel too jittery to do that right now. That might be because I don't make the most of my days since the end of my finals and I don't feel like going to bed because I'm not satisfied with how I spend my time. Study, reading, exercising and meditation will help settling this problem.

Alternating breaths is a great idea, I began to do it naturally but didn't really consider it. Thank you FM!

Fogelbise: Actually I might be curious about supplements so I'll check it out. I'll go with the Yoga of sleep and dream first, I'll make a list of all your suggestions, thank you!  :smiley: 



As for last night: I slept from 1'45-2 AM to 11, had put an alarm at 8AM but didn't wake up for good. Fortunately I remember some parts of the dreams I had before the alarm. I also had a super vivid dream for which I used more than 2 pages of my DJ, hehe. I love those vivid dreams, when you feel really present and wake up full of emotions. Hell I even love nightmares, they're an interesting experience!  :Cheeky:

----------


## fogelbise

Very good! Cherish those vivid dreams as well.  :smiley:  I also can enjoy certain nightmares, but I don't get many.

----------


## FryingMan

> "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep"? I have a sample on my kindle but never fully read it, I will change that!



It's a great book.  You can skip the buddhist background first part and jump right in to the practice section.
I suggest taking it slowly, there are so many amazing insights even in the  two pages of the practice intro.

Calm abiding is pretty important.  Without it, we are whisked away into mindless action/reaction cycles and remain non-lucid.

I'm working on making TYoDaS the majority of my primary practice.

Lucid all night every night, baby!

----------


## Pornocrates

Fogelbise: I don't get many too, although I had a lot as a child. Never triggered lucidity though.  :Sad: 

FryingMan: I have a huge interest in Buddhism but I might go straight for the practice part as you recommended! I'm not a really calm person so that would be a good practice (I get excited pretty easily, i can even induce this state haha (I use it for my mantras and visualization but apart from that it's a waste of energy and I consider it might be part of a really bad catch 22 concerning my little self control). I'll give some feedback here during my reading!

PS: I find that I have very little willpower, did you try the exercises at the end of ETWOLD (Strengthening the Will) ?

----------


## FryingMan

> PS: I find that I have very little willpower, did you try the exercises at the end of ETWOLD (Strengthening the Will) ?



Yep, I did them all on my first readthrough back in 2013.   I have strong willpower when I really want something  :smiley: .

----------


## Pornocrates

I'll do them then!

Btw, I really wanted to tell you teachers how grateful I am for all the support and advice! I'm happy I decided to participate in the forum and I would advise anyone reading the posts and wanting to LD to do the same!

----------


## fogelbise

^You are very welcome. I honestly want to see you grow tremendously, fast or slow, into he who you want to be. I truly feel the many interconnections between LD practices and other practices can help us all to reach new heights. We can further propel these improvements through the questions we ask and the adventures we commence within our dreams and lucid dreams. I love to help in any way that I can and I am quite sure FryingMan feels the same.

----------


## Pornocrates

Had a Ld 2 nights ago, it was a really faint and short one. It happened during the 4 first hours of sleep so even though I took notes when I woke up and I knew I was lucid in the morning I still couldn't remember it all. But it's good to see that I can still have them!

I'm slowly getting to a better, healthier sleep, and I had a decent recall recently!

----------


## FryingMan

Great!  Keep it up and dreams will keep getting better and better!

----------


## fogelbise

Great job! You've got this! It is also very impressive that you got your LD in the first 4 hours!!  ::D:

----------


## Pornocrates

Thank you!  :smiley: 
Yeah not the first time it happens, unfortunately when it does it's a really low level LD. Almost no awareness!

Yesterday I managed to go to bed before 1AM. I turned off the lights around 00:30.
I had 4 waking: 00:30 => 7:00 => 8h45 => 9h30 => 11h00 (there might be another one but I don't remember.

8h45: I had a really intense dream about spiders (Yuck) but when I awoke I was too tired and lazy to write it down. I wrote it at 11:00 (final waking) but lacked a few details.
From the last period I had 1 very long dream about hosting a homeless person, doing my old summer job (night receptionist  in hotels) and zombies (Someone had removed thei hunger for human flesh and they would just lick people and eat food: fries and all).

I'm really happy about this night, firstly because I went to bed earlier and so woke up with energy (without waking after 12:00PM), secondly because I had intense dreams. Fortunately I will have an easy time writing down my dreams tonight because I will feel less tired during the night.

When I went to bed, I used my mantra a bit, and used conscious breathing to get my mind off stressful stuff but I don't think I repeated the mantra until the end. I want to get back to setting intentions before bedtime + relaxation: mindfulness, stretching + visualization. Avoiding screens at least 1h,1h30 before going to bed would be a good thing too (even though I use flux).

Oh and Rcing whenever I woke up!

----------


## FryingMan

> Oh and Rcing whenever I woke up!



That's good!    See if you can move that RCing time earlier and earlier, right into the dream!   If you can very quickly notice wakings, you can do all sorts of interesting DEILD approaches (The Phase, FILD, plain DEILD, etc.).

I myself tried FILD last night seriously during an early waking (one of the ones where I usually fall back asleep VERY quickly) and thought I was making some progress but my wife was too fidgety/noisy for me to make it asleep while FILDing, so I had to give it up and aim squarely for sleep.

Training yourself to notice your awakings, and in fact to strive to pay attention to the entire night, is a good thing to do from time to time.   Do it only on nights where you can afford to sleep in, though, because when I've tried it it resulted in fairly poor sleep but much higher attention/awareness throughout the night.

----------


## fogelbise

> Yesterday I managed to go to bed before 1AM. I turned off the lights around 00:30.
> I had 4 waking: 00:30 => 7:00 => 8h45 => 9h30 => 11h00 (there might be another one but I don't remember.



Nice! I used to be more of  night owl but my excitement about lucid dreaming got me to gradually move my bedtime earlier, especially on weeknights. I can now squeeze in more WBTB's on weeknights even when I have to get up earlier, because I go to bed earlier.





> 8h45: I had a really intense dream about spiders (Yuck) but when I awoke I was too tired and lazy to write it down. I wrote it at 11:00 (final waking) but lacked a few details.
> From the last period I had 1 very long dream about hosting a homeless person, doing my old summer job (night receptionist  in hotels) and zombies (Someone had removed thei hunger for human flesh and they would just lick people and eat food: fries and all).



Zombie lickers, haha! That would make a good comedy skit or perhaps more.





> I'm really happy about this night, firstly because I went to bed earlier and so woke up with energy (without waking after 12:00PM), secondly because I had intense dreams. Fortunately I will have an easy time writing down my dreams tonight because I will feel less tired during the night.



This is good! Celebrating these positive results and cherishing the dreams you had can help you to build on the successes, providing motivation to continue putting in the effort.





> When I went to bed, I used my mantra a bit, and used conscious breathing to get my mind off stressful stuff but I don't think I repeated the mantra until the end. I want to get back to setting intentions before bedtime + relaxation: mindfulness, stretching + visualization. Avoiding screens at least 1h,1h30 before going to bed would be a good thing too (even though I use flux).
> 
> Oh and Rcing whenever I woke up!



Yes, these are all great ideas  :smiley:

----------


## Pornocrates

Yesterday was really awful, I went to bed pretty early (around 11:30PM) and did some relaxation. It worked at first but as always when I try to sleep by focusing on my breathing and getting comfortable I always end up being too aware of it and my mind keeps rushing. It's hard to explain, kind of like when you try wilding you feel like you're forcing yourself to sleep and it doesn't work.
At 1AM I decided to read a bit, I read some Marc-Aurele (His writings are really complicated to read, the phrasing is all but natural in translations so it made me drowsy) but still couldn't sleep. I ended up reading posts on reddit until 5:15AM (not a good idea but sleeplessness prevent me from thinking rationally) and then slept until 12:00 PM.

I could expect a sleepless night, I almost do nothing during my days, I don't move much, I don't exercise and I wake up late, but still it was disheartening...

I realize that when I don't go to bed before 3AM it's not only that I want to do other things, it's also simply that I'm not sleepy at all. This time was weird though because I managed to walk a bit and go study at my university and when I got back home, I got sleepy around 9:30-10PM (I guess I missed the "sleep train").

However it won't affect my will, I just need to do what I planned to do during the day (study, etc) so as to not feel remorseful once in my bed and to walk/run/exercise so as to be physically tired. At least until I get used to go to bed earlier! I might also begin by trying to go to bed around the same time every night to get my brain used to it.

----------


## fogelbise

(I made a small edit to the last sentence of my previous post.)

Sorry to hear about your bad night. Shake that one off (put it out of your mind, thinking instead of your previous good night) and try not to overthink it when going to bed. Maybe look for a wider window of time to latch on to some sleepiness like that 9:30-10:30 period where you got sleepy until you get used to earlier bedtimes.If you lay down and you just don't feel sleepy it is sometimes best to get up briefly and "reset."

----------


## fogelbise

One more thing: I just came across this article that should help you avoid issues like last night:

Insomnia: One Simple Instruction Could Prevent 80% Of Chronic Problems - PsyBlog

----------


## coolcoolcool

i also read robert waggoners book and i learned a lot from his work tbh.

----------


## Pornocrates

Hey everybody, I'm back!

I haven't been active at all this summer, things have been awfully busy (and it still is), I recently graduated and moved out of my apartment in Paris, had to prepare all the paperwork for my visa because I am now in Japan, Tokyo for at least a year!

Anyway, even though I didn't keep on writing in my workbook I recorded my dreams on and off, and found myself thinking about LDing on a daily basis. Esp when I'm in trains, that's usually when I RC. I thought a lot about what you teachers told me about RCing and being self aware when I'm busy and also about making LDing fit into your routine. I'm still trying to find a way but I find it quite hard!

Plan: Week 1 from Monday 19 to Sunday 26 will be focused on DR with at least 1 dream/night. For Mindfulness and self awareness, whenever I think about LDing I guess but also a few sessions everyday (2 or 3 x 3 mins). I'll also use mantras at bedtime and when awakening during the night.

That program should be easygoing enough to not find myself abandoning it, anyway I'm looking forward to exchange experiences and progress with you!

----------


## fogelbise

Welcome back! What a big move. Tokyo must be deluge of new experiences, perhaps even somewhat dreamlike…maybe you can use that to your advantage. Dreams of being in Paris for the next year may be a good dream sign. Your plan does seem like a good way to get back to lucid dreaming practices and it is always something you can build on later when you are ready to. I look forward to hearing about your progress!  :smiley:

----------


## Pornocrates

Hi Fogelbise, thanks for the answer! I've been crazy busy here and yeah I get these dreamlike situations a lot but I don't always RC ! I used to have this frequent dreamsign : being in Japan but since I arrived here, not anymore haha...


On the good points of the last month:

-I started consistantly practicing mindfulness (with an app called Headspace) at first it was only 10 mins a day but it's doing wonders to my mood and my discipline, etc... So that's great!
-I feel like I'm getting a good waking schedule (around 8) but bedtime's still quite random..
-I've had these urges to RC and I'm thinking about LDing a lot

The downsides:
-I'm in a dormitory now (and have been for nearly a month) so it's difficult to have some quiet time in order to remember dreams or even to have a good sleep... I can't really put alarms during the night...
-I'm really busy, many things to do so sometimes I forget about RCs (even though SA and Mindfulness are doing great!)



Oh also I think I'm going to start the PMT again, I'd like to have more day practices since the night ones are falling behind...!


Overall I'm feeling pretty confident about everything.  ::D:

----------


## fogelbise

Yes, but if you find yourself back in France, and you have no scheduled trips back there anytime soon, that can be a great clue that you are dreaming.  :smiley: 

Your good points - great work! 





> The downsides:
> -I'm in a dormitory now (and have been for nearly a month) so it's difficult to have some quiet time in order to remember dreams or even to have a good sleep... I can't really put alarms during the night...
> -I'm really busy, many things to do so sometimes I forget about RCs (even though SA and Mindfulness are doing great!)
> 
> Oh also I think I'm going to start the PMT again, I'd like to have more day practices since the night ones are falling behind...!



-If you want to use WBTB on days when you can sleep in, I recommend the water method where you drink enough water to naturally wake you up part way through the night.

-Maybe integrate RCs into the SA and/or mindfulness so that you are always also RC'ing when you do one of those activities.

I apologize if we discussed this before, but what are you referring to as "PMT"?

----------


## Pornocrates

Hey Fogelbise,

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it!

-I don't sleep in these days but if I do I will on sundays, I'll follow you advice this sunday! I tried this technique many times, the thing is I mainly use MILD and you need to remember the last dream right? When I use water to wake myself up the urge to go to the toilet gets in the way of my dream recall.. 

-I'm now integrating it and it works, I'll keep on doing it during my morning meditation (21 days in now hehe!) and other mindful moments of the day

Don't worry about it, PMT is the Prospective Memory Training you can find in Laberge's ETWOLD!

----------


## fogelbise

> -I don't sleep in these days but if I do I will on sundays, I'll follow you advice this sunday! I tried this technique many times, the thing is I mainly use MILD and you need to remember the last dream right? When I use water to wake myself up the urge to go to the toilet gets in the way of my dream recall..



I think that it is great to use the last dream before waking, if it is very clear in your memory. When the last dream is not clear, I have found success with other dreams from that night or even from previous nights that are very clear, especially if they are inspiring. I have also used inspiring daytime occurrences and inspiring daydreams, though that is more incubation than MILD, but they work in very similar ways for me and one may argue that they could working the same way for most people. The important thing is to include the trigger of clearly visualizing that moment of realizing that you are dreaming during your MILD attempts and during any incubation attempts.

I find the same thing with the water method many times but I like the trade-off...that it greatly increases my chances of a lucid dream afterwards.

----------


## Pornocrates

Hi Fogelbise, I think I found an alternative to the water method!
Since I'm in a dorm right now I use an eye mask and earplugs and I always wake up during the night to take everything off hehe..

Also I had a LD this morning, after trying wild and then just using a mantra! Success! 

I fell back asleep during the morning with some music, don't know if that helped.

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome! Congratulations on your LD!  ::D:  Also, great job finding an alternative means of waking naturally!  :smiley: 

I'd say the wild attempt and the mantra were a bigger factor than the music, but it never hurts to experiment with music.

----------


## Pornocrates

Thank you!  ::D: 

Yeah it's a cool way to WBTB I guess !

I think so too, I also think that what the music helped with is that it made me fall asleep faster since I usually have trouble with that!

----------


## Pornocrates

Hey everybody!

To begin this report I'd like to say that I had my first success with SSILD ! Yayayay  :Bliss: 
I've been trying (almost) every night since Monday night but always had a hard time because of the noise in the dorm or because of my (late) schedules!
Went to bed around 4 after playing video games for a while then woke up around 8:30 (alarm), tried the technique and slept until 9:30 (alarm) and then until 12.
The dream seemed very long and I don't remember how I got lucid because of that. I don't remember doing a RC so I guess lucidity just popped up (from the mindfulness I try to do during the whole day) ?

I'm still doing mindfulness every morning (20 minutes now), it's been 40 days now and I clearly feel the effects :
- I'm calmer
- I tend to do mindfulness at different times during the day
- I label all emotions when I find myself not present

I've been training my prospective memory for a little more than 2 weeks and 5 days now. Thing is I have a harder time getting more than half of them, usually I hit 2/3 or 3/4 by the end of the second week!

Mindfulness during the day was a great idea, I really prefer it over ADA ! I'm going to keep trying SSILD every night until the end of the week and then switch between MILD and SSILD. So I plan on focusing on being present/mindful throughout the day, dream recall (only an average of 2 dreams remembered each night which I find a bit low) and the prospective memory training! (That makes it 2 LDs during October then  :Cheeky: )

----------


## fogelbise

Congratulations on the LD, the SSILD success and the mindfulness success!!  ::D:  Those long ones are really something - keep up the great work!!

----------


## Pornocrates

Thank you fogelbise, the lucidity was going on and off but overall it was a great dream, I just wished I remembered it directly when I woke up !

I'll keep trying both MILD and SSILD, just need to adjust my schedules to the people around me so as not to get disturbed 5 times a night...

----------


## Pornocrates

Hey guys,

Just dropping by to say I'm still training LDing everyday but I just didn't have any LD since October the 22nd...

I'm not in a dorm anymore so I'm trying WILD a bit but I still need to get used to the pace of my new job, usually when I come home (pretty late) I'm too exhausted to WBTB during the night, but I'm working a lot on all that.

I know it's not the place but I'd like to go in detail concerning my last wild attempt:

It was around 6AM (woken up by an earthquake...), I was tired enough to try so I put some peaceful music and I don't move at all. As usual my hands get numb (I don't really feel them anymore and I don't know how they're placed on the bed), I feel like I'm sinking, my visual senses go weird, like it's expanding and then getting thinner then nothing... I wait for another wave thinking it would come back and staying calm, focusing on my breathing (mindfulness style), the music suddenly stops (it does that on my smartphone when I use youtube inthe browser, I got the music directly for next time because it's frustrating), after waiting another 10 minutes still nothing and without the music I can't help getting impatient and disappointed so I stopped.

Is that normal? Why was everything going smoothly and then stopped all of a sudden?


Apart from that, still training my prospective memory, still trying to be mindful all day and meditating every day (with my app), it's been 73 days now !

Also, I was looking at my LDing bookmarks and decided to listen to Sensei's podcasts. I was listening to one titled "When I first started Lucid Dreaming, I wish someone would have told me..." and he talked about LD count barriers. As he said that 25 LDs is more or less 6 months in, I got depressed as I realized I've been at it for 27 months (with breaks I agree but still) with only around 15 LDs...
So I decided to write a calendar with all my LDs indicated on it. I'm pumped up because I realize than even after all this time it's still my top priority but I also feel like I'm not doing things right...
I'd like to get more consistent in my efforts. I'm doing a sleep oriented meditation pack, hopefully it will bring great results since one of my biggest issues is that I have trouble sleeping (esp when trying to induce through MILD or SSILD). One of the first big steps towards frequent lucidity would be regular sleeping schedules so I'll do my best. 

My goals right now are:

- Get at least 1 LD before the end of the month, 2 if possible.
- Get at least 1 LD a week in December
- Set up my sleeping schedules :1AM to 8-9AM. I can't do otherwise because of my job since sometimes my shift ends at 11PM and sometimes I begin at 10AM, I'll try to arrange that.
- Keep on working on mindfulness and improve my technique.

Also, should I use different techniques at the same time? In ETWOLD, Stephen Laberge wrote that we should try all the techniques written in the book to see which one work.
Right now I try to induce through MILD, SSILD and WILD (don't like this term, too inaccurate, it's the hypnagogic imagery technique I'm using.) but not every night I'm afraud because I'm worried it will make me sleepless (I sometimes end up not sleeping for 2-3 hours even with DILD techniques which are supposed to be "sleep friendly", until now I didn't want to try WILDing to much because I thought this inability to fall asleep when I try LDing would hinder my progress but now I realize that on the contrary it could help me a great deal in WILDing. What do you guys think about it ?

Do you think we should try all techniques on some sort of rotating program ? Like 2 techniques for a month ?

Sorry for such an unorganized message, yesterday was a long day and I'm exhausted.

Have a nice day/night !

----------


## fogelbise

> Is that normal? Why was everything going smoothly and then stopped all of a sudden?



Is there a chance that you were actually in a dream and that is why the external sound from your device stopped? It is always a good idea to use some motionless RC's to check if you really are lying awake in bed or if you are in a False Awakening or a "False Still Awake" you might call it. It does happen. That said, WILD's are not my expertise. Have you ever posted in the "Post your wild attempts here" thread that Sageous runs? Let me know if you don't know where to find it and I can look up the link.

73 days - great work!

I definitely wouldn't worry about the LD count/6 months thing. Everyone has different circumstances they are working with (different stresses are big) and like you said, you had breaks in between. Try to focus on whatever helped you feel "pumped up."

Yes getting to a place where you can fall back to relatively easy is a good skill to have. I also had trouble early on after performing the SSILD cycles but I tried some techniques and got to the point where I rarely have trouble getting back to sleep anymore. Everyone will likely find something different that works for them, but I settled on the reverse eye blink (like a blink while awake but in reverse - starting with the eyes closed, blinking them open very briefly and back to closed) and rolling my eyes back for a half-second and then back to normal position under my closed eyelids. I use them once or twice whenever I feel the need to and the need may come up again some minutes later.





> Also, should I use different techniques at the same time? In ETWOLD, Stephen Laberge wrote that we should try all the techniques written in the book to see which one work.



You might want to go with your gut here. My first reaction was to say that you might not want to mix up too many things at once, but then again it is a good way to quickly find techniques that you connect with. If you don't really like a particular technique, I see no problem in resigning it to a "maybe try later list." It is better to find practices that you mostly enjoy while also producing results and momentum. 





> ...until now I didn't want to try WILDing to much because I thought this inability to fall asleep when I try LDing would hinder my progress but now I realize that on the contrary it could help me a great deal in WILDing. What do you guys think about it ?



Well, you do have to get to sleep at some point of course. I found a higher rate of success when I seemed to be having trouble getting to sleep, but eventually did get to sleepas opposed to those times where I fell asleep quickly.





> Do you think we should try all techniques on some sort of rotating program ? Like 2 techniques for a month ?



If this sounds good to you, I see nothing wrong with it. I would just avoid doing something that feels like a pain in the buttsomething that would make you less likely to keep up regular practice towards your long term lucid dreaming goals.

----------


## Pornocrates

Hi Fogelbise, 

Thanks for your answer!





> Is there a chance that you were actually in a dream and that is why the external sound from your device stopped? It is always a good idea to use some motionless RC's to check if you really are lying awake in bed or if you are in a False Awakening or a "False Still Awake" you might call it. It does happen. That said, WILD's are not my expertise. Have you ever posted in the "Post your wild attempts here" thread that Sageous runs? Let me know if you don't know where to find it and I can look up the link.



I RCed but it wasn't a motionless one, pretty sure I was awake. I saw the post, it's somewhere in my bookmarks, I guess I'll post on it thanks !

No the device stopped because that's what it does after a while when I open youtube on my browser (smartphone) and lock the phone (not the first time it happens unfortunately!).





> I definitely wouldn't worry about the LD count/6 months thing. Everyone has different circumstances they are working with (different stresses are big) and like you said, you had breaks in between. Try to focus on whatever helped you feel "pumped up."



Thing is, I still don't know what made me able to have 3 LDs in last April ! 
And yes my efforts haven't always been consistent.

Oh the reverse eye blink, I completely forgot about this technique, thanks !





> If you don't really like a particular technique, I see no problem in resigning it to a "maybe try later list." It is better to find practices that you mostly enjoy while also producing results and momentum. [...] If this sounds good to you, I see nothing wrong with it. I would just avoid doing something that feels like a pain in the buttsomething that would make you less likely to keep up regular practice towards your long term lucid dreaming goals.



You're probably right, I guess my whole approach is too rigid and forced at times... It's just I don't know how to make it natural, I've read some things from Sensei (I think) saying that the less beliefs you have the easier but I'm kinda stuck into a "everything must be lined up" mindset (meditation, mindfulness throughout the day, no screens at night, good sleeping schedules, etc...) even though I've had LDs on nights where I would go to bed around 3AM after 7h of gaming or no mindfulness, or just in the first 6 hours !

----------


## fogelbise

> You're probably right, I guess my whole approach is too rigid and forced at times... It's just I don't know how to make it natural, I've read some things from Sensei (I think) saying that the less beliefs you have the easier but I'm kinda stuck into a "everything must be lined up" mindset (meditation, mindfulness throughout the day, no screens at night, good sleeping schedules, etc...) even though I've had LDs on nights where I would go to bed around 3AM after 7h of gaming or no mindfulness, or just in the first 6 hours !



It is nice if you can line up everything, but I definitely would recommend not keeping it rigid. Some people find success when they take a break for one day and relax. The success in those cases was most definitely aided by all of the previous days and weeks of work, but the person was just too rigid or stressed about making it work and that relaxed approach payed off. Of course the next day or two you want to get back to your practices but perhaps you can find a way to slip into more and more of your practices more naturally, doing them in a way that is more fun. Perhaps you start with working in a more fun approach with just one practice, changing it up a little and then continue with another practice after another breather or relaxed day some time later.

----------


## Pornocrates

Hi Fogelbise,

What would you suggest as funny ways to help LDing ? 
In the last few days I've been thinking a lot about all that but I don't really find any way to take pressure off LDing (although I read an interesting post about that on DV), everything feels sort of stuck !

----------


## fogelbise

> Hi Fogelbise,
> 
> What would you suggest as funny ways to help LDing ? 
> In the last few days I've been thinking a lot about all that but I don't really find any way to take pressure off LDing (although I read an interesting post about that on DV), everything feels sort of stuck !



I would say to try to enjoy the practices and know that they will benefit you in many ways on the way to those next lucid dreams so that you don't feel the pressure of having an LD tonight. Of course pressure can be a driver for change or renewed focus. You just want to make any pressures work for you and not against you. 

One way I make practice fun is to vividly imagine what I would do right now if I were lucid. Think of the endless possibilities almost anywhere you find yourself during a day! If you are at University, there would be many people to do fun things with or things going on that you could play with in a lucid dream (or within your mind, in practice). I also enjoy reading my lucid dream journals and even favorite non-lucid ones. This can remind you of how wonderful dreams are and can also remind you of common dream signs/themes (even if you don't practice using them, they can work themselves in subconsciously).

----------


## Pornocrates

> I would say to try to enjoy the practices and know that they will benefit you in many ways on the way to those next lucid dreams so that you don't feel the pressure of having an LD tonight. Of course pressure can be a driver for change or renewed focus. You just want to make any pressures work for you and not against you. 
> 
> One way I make practice fun is to vividly imagine what I would do right now if I were lucid. Think of the endless possibilities almost anywhere you find yourself during a day! If you are at University, there would be many people to do fun things with or things going on that you could play with in a lucid dream (or within your mind, in practice). I also enjoy reading my lucid dream journals and even favorite non-lucid ones. This can remind you of how wonderful dreams are and can also remind you of common dream signs/themes (even if you don't practice using them, they can work themselves in subconsciously).



Thanks for the advice, I'm trying to make the most of my daydreaming habits to visualize  :smiley:

----------


## Pornocrates

Heya ! 

It's been a while (that's an understatement) !
Insomnia and really high anxiety levels kept me away from lucid dreaming but I was still really into exploring the mind ! I tried a lot of things in between, hypnosis for instance !
I might keep on exploring this phenomenon and maybe use it for LDs, I met a hypnotherapist who told me self-hypnosis was great for lucid dreaming.  ::D: 
Oh and I've been using herbal supplements for different things and since I use Valerian root to deal with my insomnia I noticed it gave me incredibly vivid dreams (and nightmares brrr), it sure has a great potential for lucidity.
Also CBD which helps relaxing a lot !

I don't know yet if I'll be able to commit to this workbook but I really miss the LDing world and community !

Hope you guys are doing alright !

----------


## FryingMan

Hi Pornocrates, and welcome back!   We all encounter life circumstances sometimes that cause us to rebalance our goals and efforts.   Best of luck to you on your journey!

For insomnia (something I suffer from in the LD middle-of-the-night practices), I recommend looking in to best "sleep hygiene" practices, and studying different relaxation techniques.  I was able to make significant improvements to my ability to fall back asleep when I studiously worked on releasing mental and physical tension, and stopped "trying to fall asleep" but just emphasized total relaxation and being completely content with whatever happens.   Our bodies and minds know how to fall asleep  -- we just need to get out of the way!

----------


## Pornocrates

Thanks for you message FryingMan ! 
I'm working on these things, but I'm trying to make my life a happy one before anything else. Lucid Dreaming was a form of escapism for a long time, now I want it to be part of my growing process !

I had a lucid dream last night, a really vivid one too. It doesn't make much sense that I had one this particular night, I went to bed around 4 AM and woke up a 11 and it happened during the 4 first hours !
No induction technique, no day review, no affirmation whatsoever... 
And yet, I felt really conscious. I wandered but didn't really know what to do. I thought I would wake up right away but I was really calm and I did a nose RC, so I just walked and wondered why it was so stable !

----------


## FryingMan

Congrats!   Lucid dreams do pop up out of the blue sometimes.   The point of practice is to make them much more frequent and reliable.

It's very good to use dreaming for positive purposes  :smiley: .   It's quite OK to just have fun, but it's also valuable to do more meaningful practices, like dream yoga for example.

----------

