# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  Falling Asleep while WILDing

## Aledrea

I have this problem of falling asleep while I'm WILDing...I get too relaxed and before I know it my alarm is ringing...any tips to stay awake, and one time I was only a minute away from a LD too  :Sad:

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## jarrhead

> I have this problem of falling asleep while I'm WILDing...*I get too relaxed and before I know it my alarm is ringing...any tips to stay awake, and one time I was only a minute away from a LD too*



This post is very confusing. So you get relaxed and fall asleep and next thing you know your alarm is ringing, yet you were only a minute away from an LD, which means you were awake and falling asleep.?

 :Question:

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## Aledrea

what I meant was I fell asleep right before I could LD.

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## Muggler

Well how long do you stay up for, before you actually attempt the WILD?

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## jarrhead

> what I meant was I fell asleep right before I could LD.



You can't LD unless you fall asleep.  :Question:

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## Lahzo

I know what you mean. I have the same problem where I try to WILD and end up falling into a totally unconscious state. Does that clarify for anybody?  :tongue2:

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## Aledrea

I try to stay focused enough to not go unconcious but I can't help it.

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## Muggler

Try to stay awake for at least 10 minutes. But don't use electronics or anything, they will wake you up too much, and make WILDing pretty much impossible. Just try and sit up in your bed, and let your mind wander. No matter how much your mind thinks that lying down is okay, it isn't. Almost guaranteed that you will fall asleep if you lie down again.

If you get cold, grab a blanket. Don't go near anything that gives off a bright light, and try not to get too active. Just standing up, walking around a little, going to the bathroom (with the lights off), and sitting up in bed, should suffice.

Best of luck!

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## Ethereal

> You can't LD unless you fall asleep.



Are you being deliberately obtuse or what? Clearly he means that he loses consciousness during the onset of a dream. And before he knows it, 2-8 hours have passed.

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## jarrhead

> Are you being deliberately obtuse or what? Clearly he means that he loses consciousness during the onset of a dream. And before he knows it, 2-8 hours have passed.



I was still unsure of his questions.

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## Lucid-Balloon

> Try to stay awake for at least 10 minutes. But don't use electronics or anything, they will wake you up too much, and make WILDing pretty much impossible.



Is it ok to use a electronic alarm, such as a Ipod Touch alarm?

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## Hidden

> Is it ok to use a electronic alarm, such as a Ipod Touch alarm?



I'm pretty sure he meant that you shouldn't use electronics that involve looking at a bright screen.  Like don't watch TV or go on the computer or play video games.  If you need to look at your iPod just to turn off the alarm, then that's probably fine though.

@jarr: He's asking how he can prevent falling asleep while attempting WILD.  It was obvious from the OP, and the responses made it even more obvious.  Either you're being deliberately annoying and pretending that you don't understand, or you're incredibly dense.

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## The Dreaming Zombie

During your WILDing attempts you could throw in some MILD techniques whilst relaxed so that you may end up in a LD if you fall asleep unconsciously.

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## Aledrea

ok, thanks  :smiley:

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## jarrhead

> I'm pretty sure he meant that you shouldn't use electronics that involve looking at a bright screen.  Like don't watch TV or go on the computer or play video games.  If you need to look at your iPod just to turn off the alarm, then that's probably fine though.
> 
> @jarr: He's asking how he can prevent falling asleep while attempting WILD.  It was obvious from the OP, and the responses made it even more obvious.  Either you're being deliberately annoying and pretending that you don't understand, or you're incredibly dense.




Nah, just confused!

 :Sad:

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## Muggler

> I'm pretty sure he meant that you shouldn't use electronics that involve looking at a bright screen.  Like don't watch TV or go on the computer or play video games.  If you need to look at your iPod just to turn off the alarm, then that's probably fine though.



That's exactly what I meant  :smiley:  Thank you for clarifying this!

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## Clyde Machine

*Now it's my turn to ask for your help, DV WILDing community!*
Well, folks, looks like I'm in the same situation as Aledrea. Looking for a little help:

I've had a couple DILDs before and have been looking into WILDing earlier this week. After going through CrazyInSane's "CANWILD" tutorial and Yoshi's WILD tutorial, I'm trying the original WILD Tutorial. After looking through the 5 Phases of WILDing, I've been trying to place where I go wrong, but in case I don't pinpoint it properly, I'll just explain to you what's going on.

I prepare for the WILD by drinking a good amount of water, about 1/3 Coca-cola bottle of water, to ensure I'll have a need of waking up after 4-6 hours of regular sleep. I lay down and use KingYoshi's "Flex Freeze" technique to stretch myself out and completely relax in a comfortable state (I will admit, keeping my arms and hands off of my body and at my side is a little comfortable for me when going to sleep, enough of a bother to notice). I get completely relaxed and turn my attentions from the TV in the living room and the furnace fan kicking on to the backs of my eyelids and the kind of "light show" I've noticed that goes on when my eyes are closed. 

I do all of this quite easily and get very relaxed, keeping my mind going and passively thinking. However, it seems I wind up falling asleep before I experience any hypnagogic hallucinations. I know I've had the fuzzy, prickly feeling in my feet, hands, and arms several times after relaxing and waiting upwards of what feels like five minutes, so I feel like I've gotten close to my experience with SP, but shortly thereafter I wind up falling asleep -- seeing no images, hearing no sounds, not feeling like I'm spinnning or falling through my bed, and not reaching the transition.

Last night I made sure to take some time after waking to properly WBTB, which consisted of going to the bathroom and standing in front of the furnace fan (it was too cold to open the window for fresh air), which I believe lasted less than ten minutes.

What would you say is causing me to fall asleep before I reach my SP/transition phase? (I'm not sure if I'm one of those dreamers who doesn't see anything during SP, so I'm not sure if I get to SP or if I pass through it and just don't reach the transition.) From my own writing of this post I'm thinking I haven't been doing my WBTB correctly, getting back to bed too soon. If not, what can you point out that I need to do or do differently to successfully WILD? Thanks for any help you can give me, I'll respond to all comments!

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## Hidden

Well, I'm really no expert on WILD (I have the same problem--I fall asleep), but here are my suggestions.  You could try sleeping for longer before doing your WBTB so you're less tired, or you could stay up longer during your WBTB.  Maybe try doing some math problems to wake up your mind.  You could try turning on the lights, but it might make it hard to fall back asleep...  Just experiment with different things and see what works.

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## Clyde Machine

I'm thinking my problem could be stemming from the WBTB being too short for me to really be awakened before getting back to sleep. I'll try waking myself up a little more, and staying up for at least fifteen minutes, to make sure I'm not going back to bed too soon.

Any other thoughts here?

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## Lahzo

Actually I just have a little bit of an opposition to a popular belief. Many people say that staying up in light is bad for a WBTB but I find it easier.. I did this one time and had the most vivid and real dream ever.. even though I never really "slept" it was just like a daydream that I was moving in. I don't classify it as a LD though. =/

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## Hijo de la Luna

> I'm thinking my problem could be stemming from the WBTB being too short for me to really be awakened before getting back to sleep. I'll try waking myself up a little more, and staying up for at least fifteen minutes, to make sure I'm not going back to bed too soon.
> 
> Any other thoughts here?



Dear Mr. Clyde, there is no wrong way to WILD. I would recommend writing down a list of all the WILD tutorials you like & why. Then give your favorite one a try anywhere from one week to three. Record the conditions of your WILD attempts i.e. time, energy level etc.  Then at the end evaluate the results. After that move on to the next one. 

You may find you favor a certain technique or maybe just a part of one WILD style. This is okay.  Take what you like and leave the rest. It is also good to have backup WILD techs you never know when they will come in handy

Don't be afraid to fail. We can fail but we are not failures. All failure is feed back on what not to do the exact same way. Try everything first hand & remember someone elses experiences will never be your own.
 ::bowdown::

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## Hidden

> Actually I just have a little bit of an opposition to a popular belief. Many people say that staying up in light is bad for a WBTB but I find it easier.. I did this one time and had the most vivid and real dream ever.. even though I never really "slept" it was just like a daydream that I was moving in. I don't classify it as a LD though. =/



I don't understand the distinction...  You say it was a dream, but then you say it wasn't...?

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## Clyde Machine

> Dear Mr. Clyde, there is no wrong way to WILD. I would recommend writing down a list of all the WILD tutorials you like & why. Then give your favorite one a try anywhere from one week to three. Record the conditions of your WILD attempts i.e. time, energy level etc.  Then at the end evaluate the results. After that move on to the next one. 
> 
> You may find you favor a certain technique or maybe just a part of one WILD style. This is okay.  Take what you like and leave the rest. It is also good to have backup WILD techs you never know when they will come in handy
> 
> Don't be afraid to fail. We can fail but we are not failures. All failure is feed back on what not to do the exact same way. Try everything first hand & remember someone elses experiences will never be your own.



Thanks for the insights; I don't see myself as a failure, but that I have yet to succeed at WILDing. I'll keep your words in mind, as they will prove useful, and I'll look into WILDing methods, keeping track of what ones I like and why, and give them a shot. I can be patient.  :smiley: 

However, I think when I tried WILDing last night, I got too impatient waiting to slip into SP, and just rolled over and tried WILDing on my side instead of on my back -- which resulted in me just falling asleep since it was much more difficult to keep my mind awake and alert in that position.

I think I did the WBTB part of it correctly: I got exactly 5 1/2 hours of sleep before my alarm gently woke me up, I went to the bathroom, got a cookie to eat and took a drink of water, was listening to music (maybe techno isn't quite what the doctor ordered - is music generally bad for WBTB?), and did a math problem out of my Algebra book before getting back to bed 20 minutes after my alarm had woken me. I was alert and awake and very conscious, but after between 15 and 20 minutes of watching the backs of my eyelids, I just didn't feel any changes. My arms got that numb feeling, but the rest of my body was the same as it was, no fuzziness or anything. At one point I had an involuntary full-body jerk, but wasn't shaken out of my relaxed state or shocked or anything, I just went back into my relaxed mindset.

So, was I too awake last night? Is that why I didn't WILD then?

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## Hijo de la Luna

If you could do it all over again what would you change to get the result you want? How long do you want to stay up before you should go back to bed? What do you want to be able to WILD? IF you were able to WILD successfully what would you do? Who would you be like? What would be different? Are you okay with your responses? Would you like who you are? 

Be honest. No one knows you better than you on how you can do these things. We might inspire you but you must decide.

Follow your bliss-Joseph Campbell
The path of excess leads to the tower of wisdom-William Blake

If at first you don't succeed try again =0D

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## Clyde Machine

I've gone through each of your questions, and I am satisfied with my responses. Your questions now have me thinking: is my problem with WILDing one that I have to pinpoint myself? By that I mean, do I have the chosen method (the generic WBTB+WILD) down correctly thus far, I just need to try it again? Is it now that I just need to find out what works for me in terms of WILDing methods, and that I'm doing correctly (according to how the method is laid out) the method I'm currently attempting?

Also, how many WILDs have you had work for you? I don't see it indicated in your signature and am curious about your experiences with WILDs.

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## Hijo de la Luna

> I've gone through each of your questions, and I am satisfied with my responses. Your questions now have me thinking: is my problem with WILDing one that I have to pinpoint myself? By that I mean, do I have the chosen method (the generic WBTB+WILD) down correctly thus far, I just need to try it again? Is it now that I just need to find out what works for me in terms of WILDing methods, and that I'm doing correctly (according to how the method is laid out) the method I'm currently attempting?
> 
> Also, how many WILDs have you had work for you? I don't see it indicated in your signature and am curious about your experiences with WILDs.



Thats right you will never WILD just like anyone else. You have to find what works for you; everyone does. Round pegs don't fit square holes very well. For me it makes more sense that becuase we all see things differently we all need our own approach. When does a cookie cutter approach work? Only when you are making cookies! he he he

It is helpful to listen to others stories to find inspiration on how we could do it and there will be similarities. However, no one could ever know what works for us but us.  Only we know. We can see that this is true when we notice our individuality. If we were the same then there would only be one way but there are many ways and there are many people.

Observe, Explore, Discover & above all else have fun! Right? I mean what else do you want from life?

To answer another questions. I WILD nearly every night. Some WILDs are much wilder than others. Everytime I WILD I look for ways I can improve.

I have never had a WILD experience that was exactly the same as another.  I use different approaches depending on what is appropriate for the moment. I WILD sitting up & laying down. I want to be able to WILD anywhere and I am finding new ways to do it the more I do it. =0)

As far as my lucid count I don't. As a matter of fact once I decided to quit keeping count I enjoyed hi level lucid dreams more frequently. I can tell this week I have had over 8 lucid dreams & I have WILDed successfully 5 times.

By the way I have found napping WILDs to be the best as I have a wonkey sleep schedule. It is never the same. Not only that but for me WILDing at night is easier than morning. 

Happy Trails ;o)

P.S. I have tried the method you have described and had some success as well. I just find other ways more enjoyable.

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## Clyde Machine

More enjoyable you say? I guess there really is more to WILDing experimentation than I originally thought.... 

Thanks for the insights. I wanted to ask my last question without the predictable "everyone's WILDing experience is different, you can't be doing it 'wrong'" response, but the way that you put it, that seems to be the only response to my questions I've been pondering and asking.

I'll keep some things noted on a notepad before I go to bed tonight, and I'll try several different things before I report back here - unless I'm successful in WILDing before I try other things after tonight. 

Thanks for everything thus far, I'll report back here when I've tried more things.

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## Hijo de la Luna

You're welcome. See ya around dream time! =0)

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## Jhony

I seem to have the same problems as well. I have tried the counting the numbers in my head trick and it seems to work, keeping me up longer (as long as I can keep my focus on counting).

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## Clyde Machine

@Hijo de la Luna: See you around!  :smiley: 

@Jhony: Although I'm not really in position to be giving advice on WILDing, I'd recommend starting with DILDs first. I see in your goals in your signature that you have yet to get your first LD? While I've seen that there is no prerequisite techniques or anything like that for general methods of induction, WILD tends to be more difficult than DILD, so you might consider going with DILDs before WILDing.

However, that's entirely up to you. If you'd like to continue working on WILDing, I'd like to ask you this: how do you usually do your WILDing? Do you just try WILDing before going to sleep, or do you WBTB as well as WILD, like I've been trying to do? Also, if you're doing a WBTB first, how long do you sleep before you wake up? Sounds like, from the limited details you gave, that you're just not getting enough sleep prior.

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## RealShift

I would think that it's the same problem I've had a couple times. Though I've barely started to experiment with WILD.
The problem might be that you fall asleep into non-lucid that you can't remember or (in my case) if you're doing it when you take a nap in the afternoon, you're not in your REM cycle and you have a dreamless sleep.

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## Clyde Machine

That right there is why I think I haven't had luck with any afternoon WILD attempts: wasn't ready for REM, didn't go lucid, just fell into dreamless sleep.

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## beachgirl

i have that experience when i wild too early in the morning. after i've had 7 or 8 hours of sleep i am much more likely to stay awake. 

but it's a tradeoff because it's easier to fall back asleep into WILD mode when it's earlier. 

find that "goldilocks" time... 

also i read that one is more likely to REM when the room is slightly cold.

and i like the idea of putting in MILD suggestions. That's a win-win. But i learned that it can take a while for MILD to work, so patience is important.

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## Hidden

> also i read that one is more likely to REM when the room is slightly cold.



It seems like that would make it harder to fall asleep though.

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## beachgirl

i've read this... and i get it... i can't sleep if the room is too hot.

i sleep better in a cool room. i'm not talking COLD... but cool....

i've read it elsewhere but just googled this: (i am not sure where i read it originally)...

_In most cases, temperatures above 75 degrees Fahrenheit and below 54 degrees will disrupt sleep, but even sleep researchers fail to agree on an exact temperature for sleep. The point at which_ _sleep is interrupted due to temperature or climate conditions varies from person to person and can be affected by bed clothes and bedding materials selected by the sleeper. In general, most sleep scientists believe that a slightly cool room contributes to good sleep. This is because it mimics what occurs inside the body when the body's internal temperature drops during the night to its lowest level. (For good sleepers, this occurs about four hours after they begin sleeping.) How Can ChiliPadTM help? In general, sleep scientists recommend keeping your room slightly cool -- but achieving the ideal temperature isn't always simple. A slightly cool room allows for a more restful sleep while in the REM phase._ 

https://www.chilitechnology.com/about.php

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## Hidden

o.o It lets you change the temperature of your mattress?  That's pretty cool.

I love it when the room is cold and then I get to snuggle up under my blankets and be all warm. =)  I think I've heard of the internal temperature drops during sleep.  Or maybe it was something else.  In any case, it said that keeping your feet warm is good for sleep because it helps your core temperature drop (I think).

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## snumbers

In my case it's much easier that when I wake up after 5 hours of sleep, is that going to the toilet with lights on is much more better to wild because it wakes me up and wakes my mind up so I don't go to sleep.
The main thing is to wake your mind up and increase your minds activaty.

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## Clyde Machine

> o.o It lets you change the temperature of your mattress?  That's pretty cool.
> 
> I love it when the room is cold and then I get to snuggle up under my blankets and be all warm. =)  I think I've heard of the internal temperature drops during sleep.  Or maybe it was something else.  In any case, it said that keeping your feet warm is good for sleep because it helps your core temperature drop (I think).



You would be correct that your internal body temperature drops during sleep. Funny you should mention that now, I've got my psychology book open right in front of me (I was about to scan/print the sleep cycle graph in it to better help with my efforts in the 90 Days Wild project).

The book (Discovering Psychology Fourth Edition, Hockenbury and Hockenbury) says that one of your normal circadian rhythms, body temperature, typically peaks at 99 degrees F around 4:00PM, and typically dips to 97 degrees F around 4:00AM.

EDIT:

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## Jhony

> @Hijo de la Luna: See you around! 
> 
> @Jhony: Although I'm not really in position to be giving advice on WILDing, I'd recommend starting with DILDs first. I see in your goals in your signature that you have yet to get your first LD? While I've seen that there is no prerequisite techniques or anything like that for general methods of induction, WILD tends to be more difficult than DILD, so you might consider going with DILDs before WILDing.
> 
> However, that's entirely up to you. If you'd like to continue working on WILDing, I'd like to ask you this: how do you usually do your WILDing? Do you just try WILDing before going to sleep, or do you WBTB as well as WILD, like I've been trying to do? Also, if you're doing a WBTB first, how long do you sleep before you wake up? Sounds like, from the limited details you gave, that you're just not getting enough sleep prior.



Sorry for the late reply. No way for me to know if anyone commented back on my posts unless I re-look over them.

And yeah, I do think getting a DILD is easier than a WILD. From the last time I posted, I actually got a DILD (my first), but that was just random as I was not doing any reality checks before (lazy). 

I've started the "90 Days to a WILD" program just to see if it was possible with no luck yet (other than my random DILD dream). 

I'll be happy to do a DILD as long as I'm able to achieve a lucid dream faster, it's just the process of doing reality checks and all that I get lazy on and don't do.

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## Clyde Machine

> Sorry for the late reply. No way for me to know if anyone commented back on my posts unless I re-look over them.
> 
> And yeah, I do think getting a DILD is easier than a WILD. From the last time I posted, I actually got a DILD (my first), but that was just random as I was not doing any reality checks before (lazy). 
> 
> I've started the "90 Days to a WILD" program just to see if it was possible with no luck yet (other than my random DILD dream). 
> 
> I'll be happy to do a DILD as long as I'm able to achieve a lucid dream faster, it's just the process of doing reality checks and all that I get lazy on and don't do.



Yeah, mine come about from a trigger phrase rather than RCs, all DILDs. =)

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## Jhony

One reason why I don't like to do a DILD, it's either win or lose. I won't know whether or not I am in dream unless something "clicks" (from doing reality checks for a while) and I suddenly realize I'm lucid. 

While for a WILD or other techniques, it may be harder, you are directly getting into the trance for a lucid, skippin the dream part and getting into the lucid part.

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## Clyde Machine

I like the spontaneity of DILDs; as much as I'd love to be able to have lucid dreams on command, I like how elusive they are right now - chasing them is part of the fun of lucid dreams, to me.  :smiley:  That's why I continue to work on RCs and keep my dream journal while I work on WILDing, so I'll have the best of both worlds, if I so choose.

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## Jhony

> I like the spontaneity of DILDs; as much as I'd love to be able to have lucid dreams on command, I like how elusive they are right now - chasing them is part of the fun of lucid dreams, to me.  That's why I continue to work on RCs and keep my dream journal while I work on WILDing, so I'll have the best of both worlds, if I so choose.



I wish I was able to have more time on Lucid Dreaming, but with school and other things, it's sometimes hard to even remember to do a reality check. 

And I know what you mean. While having LDs are fun, I also like regular dreams as it is always random and I can just wake up and laugh (depending on the dream) at how creative my mind can be. 

But I do have a question. A time when I was just starting to read about all of this, I was able to (at nights) go into SP right when I get to bed. I wasn't tired or nothing I would just wait there and SP would happen. 

That doesn't occur now, but I was wondering if that was a technique and what was it called. (Didn't keep up with it as it was very hard to go into HH or a LD when your pretty awake)

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## Clyde Machine

Well, keeping conscious when going into sleep paralysis is the bulk of the "WILD" method, your Wake-Induced Lucid Dream, where you go from a wake state directly into a lucid dream, because you've kept your mind "awake" while your body "goes to sleep". (I'm including all this in case there's a part of it you aren't sure about.  :smiley:  ) You lay awake and let your body fall asleep, while you let HH begin, and when those start going on, you're ready to enter into a dream and go completely to sleep, but with a more conscious awareness, which lets you have a lucid dream.

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## Jacq

I know what you mean . I face a similiar thing every time i try to WILD . I stay relaxed for some time , get my body paralised (?) and then some strange feeling rushes through my body and insted of seeing dark background while having my eyes closed i start seeing white . I can also hear some kind of a noise , like the wind rushing through your head on high speed . It feels like its the only chance to breakthrough and have a LD but i ussualy spoil it , and then i fall asleep. 

So yea i kinda know what you're saying  :smiley:

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## Jhony

> Well, keeping conscious when going into sleep paralysis is the bulk of the "WILD" method, your Wake-Induced Lucid Dream, where you go from a wake state directly into a lucid dream, because you've kept your mind "awake" while your body "goes to sleep". (I'm including all this in case there's a part of it you aren't sure about.  ) You lay awake and let your body fall asleep, while you let HH begin, and when those start going on, you're ready to enter into a dream and go completely to sleep, but with a more conscious awareness, which lets you have a lucid dream.



Oh no I meant doing SP the moment you get to bed, not when you wake up during sleep and do SP. 

I was able to do SP when I first go to bed, but not able to when I try WILD.

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## Clyde Machine

Well, that sounds like a WILD to me, just without the combined WBTB "Wake Back To Bed" technique. You can WILD without WBTB, I'm sure you're aware, just lay there and let SP set in, and you can have a Wake-Induced Lucid Dream. Waking up and doing it is just WILD+WBTB. That's how I do it.

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## Jhony

I'll see if I can get back on doing it again, probably won't work as good since I'll be more awake then say doing it with WBTB.

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## Aledrea

do you have to feel tired to do a WILD?  Or can you feel not tired at all? Just wondering.

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## Hijo de la Luna

No, it has been my experience that I don't have to be tired to WILD.

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## Hidden

> No, it has been my experience that I don't have to be tired to WILD.



Really?  How do you do your WILDs?

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## Hijo de la Luna

Fatigue's advantage is that we are sucked toward greater levels of physical relaxation. As you can see fatigue is not the same thing as relaxation. My experience has been that I can WILD when fresh by practicing deep conscious relaxation. ;0)

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## Aledrea

ok, thanks for clearing that up  ::D:

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## Clyde Machine

I'd say it's far more important to base your WILDing attempts on where you are in your cycle (how close/far you are from a REM stage of your sleep cycle, to be exact) than whether or not you're tired. I can go both ways, getting to about the same point before falling into unconscious sleep (I've never WILDed before, though I've come pretty close on numerous occasions), but you're probably going to do better when you're tired. That's just my suggestion, not based on any evidence or anything really all that credible. My advice: See what works for you. WILDing is different for everyone, it'll be different for you as it is for me, undoubtedly.

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## Hijo de la Luna

I agree two fold with Clyd-O's statements that it is easier to do a WILD when I ready for a nap & that I think we have to realize that no two people are exactly the same and so should our approaches to WILD, lucid dreaming in general or anything.

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## Clyde Machine

*nods* Found out last night that my last statement is more true than ever; got really close to a WILD, and didn't have anything remotely like anything others have reported having.




> I agree two fold with Clyd-O's statements that it is easier to do a WILD when I ready for a nap & that I think we have to realize that no two people are exactly the same and so should our approaches to WILD, lucid dreaming in general or anything.



Lol, Clyd-O! XD

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## Hijo de la Luna

Awesome dude!

“There comes a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance, that imitation is suicide, that he must take himself for better, or for worse as his portion.” Ralph Waldo Emerson

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## SithLord

Hi guys, may I ask you a question? ::roll:: 
I have been trying to WILD during my afternoon naps for the past month, (I count and say: "I'm dreaming") but so far I always ended up falling asleep.
My question is: should I set an alarm to go off and make a bit of noise (not much more than a beep) every, say, 5/10 minutes, or would that be counterproductive?
I also try to WILD at night sometimes, and the question is pretty the same.
Thank you very much. :smiley:

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## Hijo de la Luna

yes, to the alarm

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## Clyde Machine

I support the gentle alarm idea. So long as it just keeps you conscious, that's all you need.

@Hijo I like the quote. Can you explain what you understand it to mean? I'd like to know if I'm understanding it as you intended it to be perceived.  :smiley:

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## Hijo de la Luna

It is supposed to be ambiguous. ;o) meaning you could interpret it to mean a lot of things. It was funny and that's why I liked it.

One of a few things it means to me is found in the metaphor I percieve in it. A funny metaphor about The journey of awakening.  In seeking the fog of ignorance of mind becomes very familiar. Then one day as if losing a pet all the stories in our head stop and the stories; our minds; our pets are lost. The mind/reason/logic cannot explain everything and no longer tries and the result is a Unconditional Compassion like that you might have for a pet.

I hope that makes sense...

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## Clyde Machine

Yeah, I understood a bit of it, but I'll read that over a few more times to understand how that fits in with the quote you gave.  :smiley:  Thanks for taking the time to think through it and post!

I understood the quote to mean that sometimes a person must accept that they are, at times, the only one to trust, the only one who's right. In that way, I don't understand how the explanation fits in with the quote. Enlighten me?  ::D:

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## Hijo de la Luna

For me its not so much about trust but independence and heart. It means that life needs no explanation only occupants. It means that even if my mind can't explain life I can still enjoy it but thats just what I got out of it. Oh, it also means to me that even though I don't depend on my mind I still enjoy having it.

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## Hidden

> even if my mind can't explain life I can still enjoy it



I like that.  I like it a lot.

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## Clyde Machine

An awesome response; much clearer to me now. I like how you put it, makes me think that the debate over whether things are real or not can be put to rest with your post there, which would tell everyone to quit worrying about it and just enjoy it.  :smiley: 


In keeping with the original intent with this topic, I'd like to point out in case anyone's interested that as the one-month marker draws near for me in the 90 Days WILD Project, I've found myself falling asleep during WILDing occuring far less often, because now I know what I'm looking for, and how to get there while maintaining consciousness. A lot of times now it's just that my body aches too much while laying, letting SP sink in, and I then decide to attempt at a later time within the same night or morning. Not to say it doesn't happen; I've just gotten it under control so it's not really a problem for me right now.

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## SurferonMars

Clyde, I think maybe you should try WILDing old style if you fall asleep that quickly! WILD doesn't have to be used with WBTB, you know, and if that doesn't work for you (and apparently it's not) try something different!
Personally I always do it old school (when i'm going to sleep for the FIRST time) and it has worked for me MUCH better than WBTB. Just try it and see what you think.

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## LiveInTheDream

I just found this thread, but I might as well have participated all the  way from the beginning, since it's pretty much what I've gone through (aside from my two rather random successful WILDs).





> Clyde, I think maybe you should try WILDing old style if you fall asleep that quickly! WILD doesn't have to be used with WBTB, you know, and if that doesn't work for you (and apparently it's not) try something different!
> Personally I always do it old school (when i'm going to sleep for the FIRST time) and it has worked for me MUCH better than WBTB. Just try it and see what you think.



Are you kidding me? Well, that could change a lot...everything I've heard thus far has led me to believe that WILD will rarely (as in once in a lifetime) work without WBTB...I definitely think I need to try that a little harder. I either can't stay awake at all, or stay too much awake in order to WBTB a WILD.

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## Hijo de la Luna

Hey, Clyde Machine & Hidden, I am glad you enjoy & understand the quote. I really like it too obviously! he he he   Anyway, Clyde, congratulations on you progress. I like hearing about your progress. Keep up the good work.

Happy Trails

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## Aledrea

> I just found this thread, but I might as well have participated all the  way from the beginning, since it's pretty much what I've gone through (aside from my two rather random successful WILDs).
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me? Well, that could change a lot...everything I've heard thus far has led me to believe that WILD will rarely (as in once in a lifetime) work without WBTB...I definitely think I need to try that a little harder. I either can't stay awake at all, or stay too much awake in order to WBTB a WILD.



I am also able to WILD when I first go to sleep.  I guess it gets easier after you do that for a while.

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## LiveInTheDream

> I am also able to WILD when I first go to sleep.  I guess it gets easier after you do that for a while.



Well interestingly, after reading the five stages of WILD, I believe I have succeeded with WILD at the beginning of sleep multiple times, but I've always assumed that the fading of HI and all that meant that I failed when really it probably was just that I needed to open my 'dream eyes' instead of cut off the attempt and wake myself up. If I can turn all of those times into successful WILDs, I'll already not be half-bad at this  :smiley:

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## Hijo de la Luna

What does TOTM mean? or TOtM?

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## LiveInTheDream

> What does TOTM mean? or TOtM?



*T*ask *o*f *t*he *M*onth

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## Xaqaria

> I'm thinking my problem could be stemming from the WBTB being too short for me to really be awakened before getting back to sleep. I'll try waking myself up a little more, and staying up for at least fifteen minutes, to make sure I'm not going back to bed too soon.
> 
> Any other thoughts here?



This could easily be it. The one time that WBTB worked the best for me, I had gotten up, ridden my bike 2 miles to work, found out I didn't have to work and so rode back 2 miles home. The whole thing took about an hour and I slipped easily into a WILD upon going back to sleep. 

If you think this might be a problem, then you should systematically test what amount of time would be best for you. Set a consistent sleep schedule and start at staying up ten minutes, and progress; 15 minutes, 20 minutes, etc (feel free to choose a longer interval).

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## LiveInTheDream

> This could easily be it. The one time that WBTB worked the best for me, I had gotten up, ridden my bike 2 miles to work, found out I didn't have to work and so rode back 2 miles home. The whole thing took about an hour and I slipped easily into a WILD upon going back to sleep. 
> 
> If you think this might be a problem, then you should systematically test what amount of time would be best for you. Set a consistent sleep schedule and start at staying up ten minutes, and progress; 15 minutes, 20 minutes, etc (feel free to choose a longer interval).



 :Eek:  omg dude, if I exercised for an hour I'd never be able to get back to sleep...that's impressive that you were able to do that. Five minutes of mild activity for WBTB is like a maximum for me; any more than that (or intense activity) and I'm wide awake and can't get to sleep again for several hours, if not the next night.

Honestly, the more I try to diagnose my problem with WILDs, the more confused I'm getting. I've seen many others say the same thing as me about WBTB, and yet you can do all that and still WILD! Some people say to WILD in your normal sleeping position, others can only do it if they're in a position very abnormal to them. And yet I've tried just about everything and still I fall sleep 99% of the time  :Sad:

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## Hidden

> omg dude, if I exercised for an hour I'd never be able to get back to sleep...that's impressive that you were able to do that. Five minutes of mild activity for WBTB is like a maximum for me; any more than that (or intense activity) and I'm wide awake and can't get to sleep again for several hours, if not the next night.
> 
> Honestly, the more I try to diagnose my problem with WILDs, the more confused I'm getting. I've seen many others say the same thing as me about WBTB, and yet you can do all that and still WILD! Some people say to WILD in your normal sleeping position, others can only do it if they're in a position very abnormal to them. And yet I've tried just about everything and still I fall sleep 99% of the time



I might be able to do that.  Depends on how tired I was before getting the exercise.

And yeah, I've heard that each person is a bit different when it comes to WILD.  You say that you fall asleep, but that you can't get back to sleep if you do something for longer than 5 minutes?

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## LiveInTheDream

> I might be able to do that.  Depends on how tired I was before getting the exercise.
> 
> And yeah, I've heard that each person is a bit different when it comes to WILD.  You say that you fall asleep, but that you can't get back to sleep if you do something for longer than 5 minutes?



Yep. That is my single biggest battle with WILD. If I don't hit the tired/awake ratio just right, I'll end up with nothing. If I do happen to hit it right, then I've got a guaranteed WILD; the rest of the process is no problem for me. But that doesn't happen very often, and only twice has it happened where I'm able to remain undisturbed long enough to make use of the dream.

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## Hidden

> Yep. That is my single biggest battle with WILD. If I don't hit the tired/awake ratio just right, I'll end up with nothing. If I do happen to hit it right, then I've got a guaranteed WILD; the rest of the process is no problem for me. But that doesn't happen very often, and only twice has it happened where I'm able to remain undisturbed long enough to make use of the dream.



Well, good luck.  At least you've done it before.

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## LiveInTheDream

> Well, good luck.  At least you've done it before.



Yep, thanks.

Hopefully sooner or later I'll find a WILD technique that works for me on a more flexible timetable...or I'll just learn how to fall asleep faster after a long WBTB...or some other thing that would help...

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## jarrhead

> Yep, thanks.
> 
> Hopefully sooner or later I'll find a WILD technique that works for me on a more flexible timetable...or I'll just learn how to fall asleep faster after a long WBTB...or some other thing that would help...



You could always try WBTB.You have a flexible schedule you just said.  You also said you're looking for a long WBTB, so try offsetting your sleep cycle. I have a technique just like this called VOSCA.

It's not the same as the title suggests cause it's not the same as I did it before. I have modified it.

I cut two hours of sleep, stay up for two, then go back to sleep listening to a BB, my favorite is Really's MP3.  With good headphones. Don't worry, you won't strangle or break them if you stay still to help out much more.  Set the sleep timer to 30-45 minutes or put it on your device three times with nothing else.

I put it 45 minutes sleep timer, after 2 hours 15 minutes of staying up, cutting two hours of sleep, good headphones at a loud enough volume so I hear nothing else and can feel the bass. Never failed me once.

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