# Lucid Dreaming > General Lucid Discussion >  >  Should Lucid dreams be subject to morals

## |)347|-|

Being new to this forum i have been doing allot of reading in my areas of dreaming, mainly the lucid kind and have found that a large amout of people belive that morals should exist in Lucid dreams.  That one should act the same moraly in the dream plane as the real plane.  I simply ask your oppinion on this question and why, for it troubles me terribly that a world without boundries should in turn have morals. My personal oppinion is that one should be able to do whatever they desire, in lucid or non lucid dreams.  If you cannot die there are no restrictions or repercussions the wise and powerfull can do whatever they desire.

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## Seeker

It is your personal choice.  Nobody can tell you how you should or should not act in your dreams.  Ony you can decide.

Although all of you know my personal feelings on this, I will tell you, do not let ANYONE tell you or make you feel guilty about your decisions.

Afterall, it is freewill.  Examine your heart and see what IT tells you.   :smiley:

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## Crucible

Could always try to communicate with your dream/spirit guide.  That is if you believe in such a thing.  Mine, from what I can tell, has only given me advice on certain things in dreams I was trying to do.  He stops me from doing a no-no.   :smiley:

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## will.i.am

Hola!  Welcome to th3 forum Death, hows business?  Its been a while since I've talked to you!

But back to the topic.  I think this is a touchy subject.  I like to live by dreams as if I would live my real life and I think some poeple do the same.  True that you can do what you want and I like that part, but I personally feel that some morals are needed.  But thats just me.

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## Crucible

Actually, my dream guide just told me the other day that I should treat people in dreams as I would in real life after I asked him.

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## Seeker

Welcome back Will!  Where you been these last two weeks?

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## Crucible

"In your lifetime, you would've spent about 6 years of it dreaming. That is more than 2,100 days spent in a different world."

I must be on the upper end of the scale.  I will sleep about 40% of my life.  Everyone now and then I even sleep for 15 hours or so.  Usually it is because I am testing a new drug.    ::?:

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## ffx-dreamz

I believe that the fact that you have power doesn't give you the right to use it in ways that are harmful(even to dream people) because that is simply what Saddam Hussein did during his reign. He expressed and showed power in a way that hurt people, but I overall think that seeker is right in saying that it is your personal choice and to not let anyone convince you that what you did in a dream was wrong.

W0ot I sound like a shrink 
 ::D:

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## Alric

I say do whatever you feel like, no one will ever know. And if you consider a dream person as real as a chunk of rock, theres no reason to be extra nice to it.

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## Crucible

Well, consider this...  If you go around killing people in real life it is going to have a negative psychological effect on yourself.  I would imagine doing it in dreams, or having day dreams about slaughtering hundreds of people is not very healthy.  Just keep that in mind if you plan to go on a rampage in a dream.

Edit:  I actually have a good tip!  You can do what I do.  I just summon zombies to attack me.  They are not people technically so no harm blowing them up.

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## Alric

Personlly I think dreams should be fun anyway. And running around slaughtering tons of people isn't what I would consider fun.  I think thats a little extreme though. When he said morals, killing people didn't come to mind, but more of the smaller stuff.

Not that it would be bad, people play computer games where you kill people all the time. As long as you know its not real, I don't see a problem.

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## Blissful

Fascinating question.

How can we compare the physical world with the dream world when they are so very different?  I am very ethical and moral in my waking life. I also don't believe in casual sex but in my dream world I am free to give in to my desires (doesn't happen very often but when I do it's without guilt).

I haven't met my dream/spirit guide yet. Maybe I need one to help mentor me through this world of dreams.

The only thing I would say to anyone is that dreams are better when they are positive.  What's with the killings?   ::shakehead2::   Why would you want to be lucid and then waste that energy by using your power on killing and other negative things...  ::whyme::     sheeeshh.. for those who wish control dreams like this, I wonder how you feel when you wake up.

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## KalmaH

I think if you have "negative" thoughts, killing and such... and you have a chance to let them go in your dreams do it. Could be bad, but it could also play tricks on you, feel guilty and never even think about such things again. If you like it and look forward to doing it in real life, get professional help. My 2 cents...

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## Perj

Lucid dreams and morality seem like video games and morality... serious.

I would gladly partake in a grandtheft auto dream... driving fast, killing cops, boning hookers, blowing up buses, throwing grenades in populated areas, firing round after round into the side panneling of swat vehicles...shooting the pizza guy. 

... after that i'd ask my subconcious cool questions.

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## Lowercase Society

Everyone should set up their own loose morals in the dream world, its YOUR world, and you can do with it as you like.  Unless LS interferes, or icedawg kicks your ass.   :smiley:  
Also, the morals you live by in the waking world, should generally influence the ones in the dreaming world in a way.  Dream and live by what you think is morally correct or not.  Its your choice, and nobody can define your code of morallity.  :wink2:

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## Alric

I had a dream  a few nights ago where I thought I was in a video game. When I woke up I was like "Hmm in that game I should of... wait that wasn't a game it was a dream!" Which is why I thought of it.

I did kill one person in that dream but they didn't have a face, I wasn't lucid and I really thought of it as a game. Which I guess is kind of what Crucible said, if you don't put a face to the person its just like killing zombies. And if killing something goes with the plot(dreams have a plot?) I don't see anything wrong with it. And if you do it in a normal dream whats wrong with doing it while lucid?

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## CT

It might be good kick someones ass once in a while to vent some frustration, but I wouldnt go on a psycho killing rampage. I've got GTA3/GTAVC for that... ^^.

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## Crucible

We need a game like the sims 2 meets GTA:VC.  The AI in GTA:VC is very bad.

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## nerve

two words: personal opinion.

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## Seeker

Two more words: Personal honor

Do what your heart tells you is right.  Freewill is not a license to do whatever you desire.  It is a license to do what you know is right.

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## WerBurN

i cant let myself believe that when  i dream im in another world...if that is true im a very very very bad man   ::cry::   ...so what do you think of your actions before lucidity? cause ive said this before, but im always killing people etc. ...that and in lucidity, dont you think if you have full control over a person, that they must be a dream construct? ...theres of course always the arguement that if you do alot of bad things over there it could cross over, but that same arguement is used for violent video games, and i love to kill on those, yet do not kill people in my waking life...my conclusion is, since it isnt real (for me at least), and i know how to discern waking life from sleeping life ill continue to do as i please...lucky for my dream constructs i dont really want to kill people or rape them of steal stuff etc but, in my dreams i do not bind myself to any laws...

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## dougdrums

Two words: I'm confused.

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## Lucius

People who reply to this topic should also check out the dream control topic in dream control, I wanna know the opinion of people, it all just falls under "Astral Ethics" I gues, hehe  :tongue2:

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## |)347|-|

I have to say I agree with paperdoll on this one, and given all of the feedback to this topic would like to share why I posted this in the first place.  My dreams are always, in some sense of the term, lucid so I always can make choices for my actions.  My choices acording to "normal" people are quite wierd, mainly because I never expirience remorse, guilt maybe but never remorse, for my actions in the dream and real world.  I have allot of VERY violent dreams, I'm plopped into a situation, have the ability to get out of it, but instead have fun running with whatever my dream is.  Now I guess another question could be more of a personal one.  Is deciding not to control a dream and killing the same as killing in a lucid dream?

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## Seeker

More shades of grey!

If you let go of your lucidity, that is, you lapse back into a 'normal unconcious dream' then in my opinion, you are not violating your morals.

HOWEVER

If you decide to release your lucidity only to create a loophole by which you can destroy and murder....    well, that's kind of like cheating on your taxes   :smiley:

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## |)347|-|

i dont really realease a lucid dream I jusst tend not to alter it.  So in that case tax cheating it is!

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## CT

Killing people because you like to kill people and see gory things is a bit wrong and sick.... but when you're really frustrated with someone and you summon him/her, and then procede to kick his/her ass then its ok in my book, its still your dream. But splitting his/her head open and then dancing on his/her body is a bit too far. 

Its hard to tell whats wrong or right... I dunno. Its still your dream. Its sort of like playing Knights of The Old Republic. Are you gonna go light side or dark side? When I first played trough it I coulndt bare myself to pick the dark choices... they where so cruel! But then when I finished it i wanted to see the dark end and other stuff.... So I did. But I didnt really like it.

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## |)347|-|

I'm glad that you guys are nice to the new people and take the time to read stuff even if I may have no credit yet

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## RedStarSoldier

Yeah, whenever I play games like that I hate being evil... I just don't feel comfortable doing things I wouldn't normally do in real life.  But for dreams I think as long as your not doing anything needlessly cruel, anything is fair game. If someone is trying to kill you, give 'em hell.   8)

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## CT

Exactly   ::lol::

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## |)347|-|

Ohh i should probably add this part I would probably do everything I do in my dreams in waking life, if there were no concequences.  Just thought you should know

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## CT

raping, pillaging, anarchy, vanalism, etc? 

Thats what happens without concequences.

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## Seeker

> _Originally posted by |)347|&#045;|_
> *Ohh i should probably add this part I would probably do everything I do in my dreams in waking life, if there were no concequences. *Just thought you should know*



OK then, sounds like you have honor.  You feel no guilt for the things you do in your dreams, and you would feel no guilt for doing those things when awake.  No conflict exists for you then.

Sounds like you are true to yourself.

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## |)347|-|

For seekers awnser yes and no, Im kinda dealing with the having very little remorse, and over all i think its because the first movie I ever saw was platoon.  And for CT umm i dont think raping pillaging and anarchy is all that fun.  A good shoot out is or perhaps just kicking the living shit out of someone.  I guess I like to vent my anger in dreams...

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## Alric

Pillaging is just a fancy word for stealing. If you see something you want in a dream why not take it? Its really yours anyway heh.

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## |)347|-|

hmm then i guess i do like pillaging, I tend to also steel clothes, i dont know why.

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## redone

Just a thought, but your morals are intrinsic to your internal desires governed by your personal beliefs.  If you're willing to do something in your dreams which you believe is against your own morals, just know that it's either your ethics, society's rules, or some other force which keeps you from acting them out in real life.

No guilt about that.  You're not hurting anyone, not breaking any laws, or bringing the world to some ultimate destruction, so I say have fun, enjoy!

If you happen to dream about certain things which you feel are grossly immoral, and you're enjoying them, just check your morals.  Either redefinition of what you think is moral/immoral or serious psychiatric counseling will be needed.     ::wink::

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## frozen_joth

If you killed or hurt someone in your dream it usually means you didn't like them. If you Kill someone you like or love you really didn't like them or love them in the first place. either that or you need some help. Like If you were dreaming that you had a gatling gun with unlimited ammo at wal- mart just shooting anyone and everyone and I walk up to you and say "Did you like that person" and if you smile and say "yep". it's wrong (To me anyways). I dunno. Everyone has there own morals. It's like where do you draw the line between right and wrong?I dunno, just my 7 cents.

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## nerve

...well if I was in a lucid dream with someone I didn't like...I probably wouldn't _kill_ them...maybe try to comunicate with them...perhaps that would help me..have a better attitude towards them in life?

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## djaio

I think of it this way: the random dream people you kill or have sex with are not people - they are mere objects. Productions of your mind. If you think you're "immorally" taking advantage of objects, not people, the guilt can be purged or at least softened.

The way I see it, anything you allow yourself to do in your imagination, you should allow yourself to do in dreams.

And don't tell me you don't have sexual fantasies.  :P

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## theunknowndreamer

> _Originally posted by djaio_
> *I think of it this way: the random dream people you kill or have sex with are not people - they are mere objects. Productions of your mind. If you think you're \"immorally\" taking advantage of objects, not people, the guilt can be purged or at least softened.
> 
> The way I see it, anything you allow yourself to do in your imagination, you should allow yourself to do in dreams.
> 
> And don't tell me you don't have sexual fantasies. **



Parts of this make a lot of sence to me. I think that parts of your dreams are about something you wish you could do. Like flying you wish you could fly and you have never done it before, and so, in your dream what would stop you. I think it works the same way for other things it is a new experince that you wonder about, it doesn't have to be morally correct it is just something you wonder about.

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## Serinanth

Because I grew up dreaming, I think my ethics here and there turned out the same, as did my experience... 

I experience concequences, just as I do here, its another thing that has lead me to the beleif that the dreaming is just as real as here, and a very important part of our lives.

Honor is important to me, life is important to me, when I was a kid I had little respect for life, torturing bugs and frogs and fish, I still feel stained because of that, even though I didnt know better. 

I have done bad things in the dream world and suffered because of it, in the world I experience in the dreaming there are things that can easily put me in my place if they so desire, no level of lucidity changes that fact either. Sure I am dreaming, I know it... I should be a god... but I'm not... why? 

Perhaps a shadow of doubt still resides... In any case though, I have learned alot in the dreaming, I would not have learned so much if I were not subject to concequences though. 

So many of you have a very different experience than I, you have free reign to do as you please whenever you please... that would be nice at times =) but I would not change the way I experience this life, because I continue to learn and grow.

Like it has been said before... Be true to yourself.

But if that is fulfilling your carnal desires so be it... I just hope that our worlds dont collide, because you may be a friend now and here, and I will do all that I can to help you. But if that carnal dark way is your path in the dreaming then we will not be meeting as friends... 

I am not trying to be an asshole or anything its just the way of things, its what I do in the dreaming, I help and protect people in whatever way I can.  A being going around on a rampage is going to have to deal with me, if we should meet... Mind you this does not mean I win all the time ohh far from that, I get my ass kicked alot too. But I dont stop if I fail the first time, I have said to others who have come across beings that seem to be overpowering, sometimes a tactical retreat is nessesary, but only so you can return to your task.

Right and wrong is subjective, to each individual experience, I have chosen what is right and what is wrong for myself, through experience, through concequence and reward, I am trusted and people feel safe around me, and for that alone I will hold true to this path.

/rant off/

/.... again..../

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## Ev

It depends on morals.
I'm about to test the interesting thing in my dream - face the "enforcers" (some kind of SWAT like team which tries to catch me if I commit a crime in a normal dream)
After this I'll make my final decision.

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## 42

The more consciously aware I am, both here and in dreams, the more I feel remorse for things I did wrong or things I should've done better.  I do not let those feelings eat me up but I certainly suffer emotionally from doing things against my conscience.  If you're consciously saying, "I know what I'm doing is wrong but I don't care" (for whatever reason) then you are going against your conscience.  Even if you believe that the dreamworld is your own unconscious, then going against your conscience in a lucid dream is still hurting you in some way.  And I have a feeling it's doing deeper damage since it's deeper in your mind.  If you believe the dreamworld is a universal subconscious, then doing something you think is wrong is hurting all of existence (which is even worse).  And if you think the dreamworld is another place (or many other places) that actually exist, then what you do effects others just like in this world.  But beware, those others can effect you back and as Seri said, there are consequences.  You can run from consequences of ill action for a while, but eventually it'll come back to you in some form.  I guess my stance on morality in lucid dreams comes down to this:  Don't be drunk with selfishness in lucid dreams just because you can do it without others here knowing.  I won't reiterate Seri's consequences part again but do remember those Karma Police.  :smiley:

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## Anima

In your mind, you can do anything you want.  No one has to know, it doesn't have to effect your realty.

  But be wary, doing such evil deeds even in your dreams may cause them to spill into reality, infecting your mind.

     The mind is dangerous thing, unyielded it is nearly unstoppable.

      As i said be wary...

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## Seeker

Anima, that's an interesting way of looking at it!  When you do something immoral in your dreams, it can erode your morals in waking life!

Just think, if you rape and pillage everynight without consequence, mightn't you be inclined to do that some day while you are awake it you think you can get away with it?

Food for thought!

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## Prometheus

all I'll say is dichotomy and ethics do not work together, your subconsciouss records every single thing you do.

stares at seeker  ::shock:: 
are you up super early killing time on dreamviews like me?  ::D:

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## morphogenesis

i would have to say that all of this moral guilt you feel is just an evolutionary adaption that has taken root because it is benficial for our species not to kill eachother. i think it is strange when people say that you should respect all life equally and then they go and wash their hands. they are killing millions of innocent living organisms without a second thought. if you are going to have morals about respecting life make them universal, dont just apply it to living things that you can feel empathy for like your pet dog or fellow man, or if you are going to disregard this do it universally, treat all life the same. pherhaps it is time to evolve our brains and our morals a little bit furthersay have respect for all things but this does  not mean we cant kill them, just do it respectfully. i doont know, this is my current dilema i am facing now with my own morals

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## ffx-dreamz

dude, we still want you to wash your hands..  ::shock::

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## CT

> _Originally posted by morphogenesis_
> *i would have to say that all of this moral guilt you feel is just an evolutionary adaption that has taken root because it is benficial for our species not to kill eachother. i think it is strange when people say that you should respect all life equally and then they go and wash their hands. they are killing millions of innocent living organisms without a second thought. if you are going to have morals about respecting life make them universal, dont just apply it to living things that you can feel empathy for like your pet dog or fellow man, or if you are going to disregard this do it universally, treat all life the same. pherhaps it is time to evolve our brains and our morals a little bit furthersay have respect for all things but this does  not mean we cant kill them, just do it respectfully. i doont know, this is my current dilema i am facing now with my own morals*



Very true. Its the strange sort of 'hypocracy' in many things I face in my own thought patterns as well...

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## Seeker

> _Originally posted by Prometheus_
> *stares at seeker 
> are you up super early killing time on dreamviews like me?*



My day starts at 5:45 EST.  I am usually on DV by 7 ot 7:20.

Normal day for me.  But on weekends!!!! Sometimes I even sleep until 8:00   ::o:

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## Anima

What the human do can be unthinkable, most would say were a peaceful race as a whole.  Wrong, look at what's happening in Iraq, if that's there "Peace" then I want nothing to do with it.  Only afew of us are truly pure hearted, and they aint in the goverments.

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## Maystar

surely your lucid dreams will reflect how you feel at the time.....

killing people etc for the sake of it would just be a waste of engergy on negative shite.  if you're a bit cross with someone then i suppose there's no real harm just venting a little big of angst - as long as it doesn't get out of control...however, surely it would be best to direct all energies into postitive stuff?  as regards for sexual encounters my opinion is that if i was to LD about these, then surely this would mean i wasn't happy/satisfied with my own partner.

i suppose your morals would also count on how you interpret the dream world.  some people accept it as another reality where your actions could have some consequences on life there.

like we all say, it's all a case of how *you* feel about it and *your* perception etc

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## Tjhands

I like what Perj said about dreams being like video games. Would you feel guilty after slaughtering people in a video game? Probably not. True, you can't actually FEEL the blood splattering on your face in a video game like you can in a dream, but as far as real-life consequences go, it's the same outcome: nothing.

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## Seeker

*swings pick*, *clang*

Hey found another great nugget!

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