# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  About to trash my Galantamine bottle.

## moe007

So recently, Ive been reading up and experimenting on supplements and have read collectively more than 20+ books on the subject. Some like Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements, and medical and pharmacological text.

You could say in a sense, I am an expert on supplements, through the knowledge that is available, and through personal experience. 

Everywhere Ive read, it says Galantamine is like the moses of lucid dreaming. 90% chance of WILD or more. Etc etc.

The first night I used Galantamine, I tried the traditional 4mg/ 500mg Choline. Nothing special happened. I woke up after 5 hours took the combination, and waited for 30 mins, went to sleep. Nothing. I woke up in the morning with no side effects what so ever, and I did not feel any difference mentally or physically. No hang over.

I tried the 4mg/500mg combo again, and yielded same results.
The next time I tried 8mg/500mg, and was able to get to SP very fast, and the SP was very intense. But I endured SP for a long time, eventually falling asleep. Nothing happened. Also, no effects or anything the next day.

I tried the 8mg/500mg combo 3 times more, with the same results. Very little HI, very intense SP, and occasional Exploding Head Syndrome.

On Saturday, I decided to try 12mg galantamine and 800mg Choline. The 4mg and 8mg galantamine had no effect on me what so ever, and had no negative side effects at all, so I know it would be safe to bump up to 12mg.

I woke up after 5 hours, took the 12mg/800mg, went to toilet and walked around for 2-5 mins, and went to sleep to relax and start the WILD.
The ONLY difference from the other times; the 4mg and 8mg, is that I entered SP and EHS, VERY fast. I had an extremely INTENSE sleep paralysis, and the Exploding Head Syndrome was very frequent. Nothing extra ordinary though.

I woke up with NO side effects. I was at least expecting a hang over.

In Thomas Yuschak's book about Supplements, he says he has to use Paracitam to counter the effects of the 8mg/500mg galantamine combo every time because of the powerful side effects. 

In every trail I did, I had no side effects at all. Im so mad at galantamine for not working I want to flush my pills down the pisser.  :Bang head:  :Bang head:  :Bang head:  :Bang head:  :Bang head:

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## ninja9578

My research showed that it's best to take Galantamine with both Choline _and_ B5.  

Sounds to me like you're too stressed about it.  Stress is the ultimate lucid dream killer.

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## DuB

It is possible that your body is somehow more tolerant to the drugs than most people. It is also possible that you are not experienced enough with WILD for the drugs to make much difference (as I have no idea what experience level you're at, you'll have to judge that one for yourself). I would say it's possible that you've taken some other drugs which interfered with the action of the lucid aids or done some other no-no thing to cancel out their effects, but I'm assuming since you've become such an expert on the topic that you wouldn't make such a mistake. It could just all be crap luck.

Naturally LDing isn't so bad anyway - it's certainly much cheaper  :wink2:  and you don't have to worry about relying on drugs as a crutch. However, if your dead set on using some supplements, maybe you just need to try one of the many others. B6 is extremely popular, although it doesn't necessarily lead to lucidity as reliably as some other supplements.

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## Phydeaux_3

I've had mixed results with it as well. I had my 2nd, 3rd and 4th lucids using it, all from the same bottle or "batch" then the next bottle I got (from the same company) I got ZERO results from, almost like it was a dud batch. I emailed them to ask if they'd had any other complaints, of course they said they hadn't. I was really dissapointed, as I'd had such good results the first time using it.. then nothing at all the next time. I've ordered another bottle from a different place hoping for better results again. It's just too bad that we have to get the galantamine from herbal dealers and that we can't just get the real pharmaceutical grade prescription stuff.. that might really be able to answer our questions. A guaranteed analysis instead of a hokey herbal "non-guarantee". I think that's the real problem we are up against.

I'll keep the forum informed of my progress with the next batch.

Also, I'm gonna start eating LOTS of peanut butter at bedtime now too, seems people are raving it about it around here!



DUDE! Where can I get me some of THAT?!

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## DrTechnical

The more I read about people's experiences w/ Galantamine, as well as their success with lucid dreaming in general - the more I become convinced that LDing has way more to do with brain chemistry than anything else.

Never mind the supplement use, how are you doing with other aspects of dream recall and experience?

I tell people starting out not to even worry about lucids until they are remembering several pages worth of dreams per night.

I also strongly agree that WILDS are simply more advanced and more easily obtained once you have had 50 or so DILDS.

I guess the only thing I would suggest as far as supplements is to try something which suppresses REM first thing in the evening. That should make LD's even more likely later in the sleep cycle.

If supplements aren't working for you, why not try a completely different approach such as a dream mask?

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## moe007

> It is possible that your body is somehow more tolerant to the drugs than most people. It is also possible that you are not experienced enough with WILD for the drugs to make much difference (as I have no idea what experience level you're at, you'll have to judge that one for yourself). I would say it's possible that you've taken some other drugs which interfered with the action of the lucid aids or done some other no-no thing to cancel out their effects, but I'm assuming since you've become such an expert on the topic that you wouldn't make such a mistake. It could just all be crap luck.
> 
> Naturally LDing isn't so bad anyway - it's certainly much cheaper  and you don't have to worry about relying on drugs as a crutch. However, if your dead set on using some supplements, maybe you just need to try one of the many others. B6 is extremely popular, although it doesn't necessarily lead to lucidity as reliably as some other supplements.



You are certainly correct about the tolerance to drugs part. I already knew that, that is why I even attempted to take 12mg of Galantamine.

About my level at WILDing, Im no expert, but I know the rundown, and I can meditate successfully, achieving some HI and SP while siting upright. And can summon some HI to entertain myself. Ive read a great book all about the different stages of conciousness (The Head Trip by Jeff Warren) which I greatly recommend to everybody.

About taking interfering drugs, there is nothing in my system that would interfere with acetylcholine, or acetylcholinesterase at all. 

Ive tried b6 and had good success at increasing my dream vividness at doses of 250mg or higher.





> I've had mixed results with it as well. I had my 2nd, 3rd and 4th lucids using it, all from the same bottle or "batch" then the next bottle I got (from the same company) I got ZERO results from, almost like it was a dud batch. I emailed them to ask if they'd had any other complaints, of course they said they hadn't. I was really dissapointed, as I'd had such good results the first time using it.. then nothing at all the next time. I've ordered another bottle from a different place hoping for better results again. It's just too bad that we have to get the galantamine from herbal dealers and that we can't just get the real pharmaceutical grade prescription stuff.. that might really be able to answer our questions. A guaranteed analysis instead of a hokey herbal "non-guarantee". I think that's the real problem we are up against.
> 
> I'll keep the forum informed of my progress with the next batch.
> 
> Also, I'm gonna start eating LOTS of peanut butter at bedtime now too, seems people are raving it about it around here!



I am trying to get the prescription Galantamine, used for Alzheimer's treatment.





> The more I read about people's experiences w/ Galantamine, as well as their success with lucid dreaming in general - the more I become convinced that LDing has way more to do with brain chemistry than anything else.
> 
> Never mind the supplement use, how are you doing with other aspects of dream recall and experience?
> 
> I tell people starting out not to even worry about lucids until they are remembering several pages worth of dreams per night.
> 
> I also strongly agree that WILDS are simply more advanced and more easily obtained once you have had 50 or so DILDS.
> 
> I guess the only thing I would suggest as far as supplements is to try something which suppresses REM first thing in the evening. That should make LD's even more likely later in the sleep cycle.
> ...



I have relatively great recall on most days, but no recall at all on other days. Ill have 3-4 days of superb recall, then a dryspell of 2-3 days. It cycles on and on. Ive had 4 lucids, and around 10 false awakenings. Although I dont have directly LD experience, Im pretty confident about what I know. 

As for suppressing REM, Ive tried serotoinin and melatonin before bed. Melatonin gave me very nice and vivid dreams. Serotonin had little to no effect. 

The amino acid blend worked the first night on me, but hasnt worked since. And i didnt get a WILD like I was supposed to, I got a DILD.

Im not quiting yet.

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## moe007

Just ordered some l-dopa. I hope it works better than galantamine.

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## DuB

I probably don't have to tell you to be careful with that levodopa.

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## moe007

> I probably don't have to tell you to be careful with that levodopa.



 :smiley: 

Dont worry, Ive done my homework.

Seems like potent shit if taken in the right doses and at the right time.

But being the risk taker I am, I might go for a substantially high dose and report what happens. Of course, by high dose I mean, high to the recommended dose, but much lower than the lethal dose.

Just enough to notice it in effect.


**I do not promote the use or abuse of any supplement or drug, anything discussed in this thread is for experimental purposes and is not recommended to be tried without proper precautions and preparations. Take at your own risk.

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## LoganKost

I've been trying to find it in stores, but even in vitamin shops it's not available. And I really hate ordering things online. I'll take your Galantamine  :smiley:

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## Arthurium

> So recently, Ive been reading up and experimenting on supplements and have read collectively more than 20+ books on the subject. Some like Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements, and medical and pharmacological text.
> 
> You could say in a sense, I am an expert on supplements, through the knowledge that is available, and through personal experience. 
> 
> Everywhere Ive read, it says Galantamine is like the moses of lucid dreaming. 90% chance of WILD or more. Etc etc.
> 
> The first night I used Galantamine, I tried the traditional 4mg/ 500mg Choline. Nothing special happened. I woke up after 5 hours took the combination, and waited for 30 mins, went to sleep. Nothing. I woke up in the morning with no side effects what so ever, and I did not feel any difference mentally or physically. No hang over.
> 
> I tried the 4mg/500mg combo again, and yielded same results.
> ...



B5, B6, B12 and Meletonin make it work for me and I had the same results as you.

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## moe007

> B5, B6, B12 and Meletonin make it work for me and I had the same results as you.



Ive tried b5 b6 b12 and melatonin, and just had vivid dreams. Nothing special.

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## dodobird

Maybe try Galantamine together with the Amino blend.

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## ninja9578

Along with the prementioned Choline and B5 try loading up on Tryptophan (turkey, cheese...) before bed.

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## moe007

> Maybe try Galantamine together with the Amino blend.



I did that once, same effects as galantamine alone.
Although it was pretty vivid.




> Along with the prementioned Choline and B5 try loading up on Tryptophan (turkey, cheese...) before bed.



I took choline and b6 and b5, as well as foods that contain tryptophan before bed.

Nothing special.

Hoping the L-Dopa makes a difference.

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## DrTechnical

If you've tried all these drugs with no effect, change your approach. You need to experience more lucids in order to know what it feels like and get a sense how LDs and reality feel different. That level of experience along with supplement help will be productive long term.

In the short term - I seriously suggets you use a dream mask. That's the tool I started with. I learned a lot about what lucid dreams feel like, how to negotiate FA's, etc ...

My suggestion would be the REM Dreamer

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## moe007

Dream masks are expensive, and I heard they do not fully induce Lucid Dreams.

If you wont notice flashing lights to be abnormal, you wont achieve lucidity.

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## Mr_Jinsue

I havn't ever tried using any suppliments or anything like that but just from reading through this thread, you guys all seem to be having on and off days of success as well as possible changes in doses having varied results. Perhaps its a mental/confidence thing? Since taking the 'goods' may give you the 'belief' that you will be more lucid or something along that line.
Just something to think about.

Cheers

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## DrTechnical

> Dream masks are expensive, and I heard they do not fully induce Lucid Dreams.
> 
> If you wont notice flashing lights to be abnormal, you wont achieve lucidity.



As I recall, the REM dreamer is about $170.00. But it depends on your budget of course. All these supplements aren't cheap either.

Different people have different experiiences with dream masks. I would estimate I've had 25-30 lucids with my dream mask. Of those, I would say I noticed the flashing lights 2-3 times. All the other LDs were false awakenings. The lights go off, and I have a FA. But I reality test, realize this and carry on in my dream space.

Everyone's experinece is going to differ, just like people have relatively better or worse results w/ galantamine.

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## Firewalker

After reading Advanced Lucid Dreaming I thought Galantamine was finally the supplement that would allow me to have lucid dreams at will, so far, I have tried it 3 different times, mine are 4mg Galantamine, 250 mg. choline, I took only one capsule each night, the first time it worked though not as I hoped, I took 100mg of 5-HTP at about an hour before bedtime, woke up after 4 hours sleep, took the Galantamine, and stayed up for 30 minutes or so, then did the exercises listed in the book for WILD's, after being awake for an hour and a half, I finally gave up and just wanted to go back to sleep, at after being awake for 2 hours I finally went back to sleep, soon I was having a dream, then I awoke or possibly false awoke, felt vibrations and felt as I left my body, I struggled to open my eyes, astral or dream eyes, and saw my darkened room, I wanted to go through the ceiling and I rapidly floated to the ceiling and was going though it when I woke up, falling to sleep again the process repeated itself though not for as long. I thought well it worked, though I have had better experiences on nothing but consuming 3- 20 ounce Sundrops within 8 hours before bed. But still it was a start, but after 2 trys later with no results whatsoever besides it making it extremely difficult to go back to sleep I am wondering if Galantamine is all it's cracked up to be. I am not giving up yet though, I will try 2 capsules for 8 mg, next time, but since 4 mg, makes it very difficult for me to return to sleep, I wonder if 8mg will just make it impossible.

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## Firewalker

I tried Galantamine after 4 to 6 hours of sleep, each time, and had difficulty going back to sleep, has anyone tried it before bedtime, perhaps combined with Melatonin or 5-HTP to allow you to sleep a while, I am considering trying this, I have seen dream supplements on the internet with Galantamine and 3 mg of Melatonin combined, this might be an interesting experiment, I want to try 8mg on the WBTB first though and since I just tried Galantamine  yesterday I have to wait a few more days before trying it again, has anyone already tried this thought?

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## Segunder

It's been a while, but I'm glad to be back at the forum!
Anyway, I was reading this thread and remembered this once-daily pill I bought from my grandmother's natural food store (read: not a health food store... ?)
I glanced at the vitamin list and saw this:
A...............................................6,  000 IU
C...............................................66 mg
D...............................................40  0 IU
E...............................................33 IU
K...............................................80 mcg
B1..............................................2 mg
B2..............................................2 mg
Niacin.........................................20 mg
B6..............................................2 mg
Folate.........................................400 mcg
B12............................................12 mcg
Biotin..........................................15  0 mcg
Pantothenic Acid...........................10 mg
Iodine.........................................75 mcg
Magnesium...................................5 mg
Zinc............................................15 mg
Selenium......................................75 mcg
Copper........................................1.5 mg
Manganese...................................1 mg
Chromium.....................................60 mcg
Molybdenum..................................20 mcg
Potassium.....................................1 mg
Mixed Carotenoids..........................4 mg

It's called "Every Man's One Daily" from NewChapter Organics.
Sorry for the long post, but I'll update you guys tomorrow with my results, because from what I've seen over the last few threads is this ought to help out quite a bit... but I'm no biochemist. If there is anything in there I should be worried about, please let me know!

Night!

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## moe007

> It's been a while, but I'm glad to be back at the forum!
> Anyway, I was reading this thread and remembered this once-daily pill I bought from my grandmother's natural food store (read: not a health food store... ?)
> I glanced at the vitamin list and saw this:
> A...............................................6,  000 IU
> C...............................................66 mg
> D...............................................40  0 IU
> E...............................................33 IU
> K...............................................80 mcg
> B1..............................................2 mg
> ...



That just looks like a typical multi-vitamin pill for me  ::roll::

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## Segunder

Pretty much, from what I've gathered. Although it is 100% vegetarian!
 ::lol::  Anyway, I thought it would be good for dreams. I had a very vibrant dream with great recall, I could remember every part of all of my conversations when I woke up. Overall I'd say the dream lasted ~1 hour, maybe a little longer. 
It had a semi lucid feel to it, but I never managed to gain full control. Suffice to say that I did manage to stop an avalanche with my mind. Which should have made me realize something right there, but I was a little too into the plot to notice. Oh well...

Overall taking a multi vitamin seems like it ought to help out quite a bit, I'm going to try again tonight.

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## DrTechnical

> I tried Galantamine after 4 to 6 hours of sleep, each time, and had difficulty going back to sleep, has anyone tried it before bedtime, perhaps combined with Melatonin or 5-HTP to allow you to sleep a while, I am considering trying this, I have seen dream supplements on the internet with Galantamine and 3 mg of Melatonin combined, this might be an interesting experiment, I want to try 8mg on the WBTB first though and since I just tried Galantamine yesterday I have to wait a few more days before trying it again, has anyone already tried this thought?



Since you have Yuschaks book, have a look at the half life data for galantamine. That response, coupled with the natural tendency for deep sleep early in the sleep period makes that a poor strategy I think.

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## Firewalker

You're probably right, and I have studied the half-life, and how long Galantamine stays in your system, but even though it is at its peak an hour after taking, there would still be quite a lot of Galantamine in your system all night. Its worth a shot anyway, I think next time I will try the WBTB again though with 8mg this time, and 300mcg which is 0.03 mg of Melatonin to help me fall back to sleep faster, this is recomended in the book, and since the Galantamine seems to induce insomnia in me, this may be the missing link in my case, as well as the person's who started this thread. We'll see.

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## DrTechnical

> You're probably right, and I have studied the half-life, and how long Galantamine stays in your system, but even though it is at its peak an hour after taking, there would still be quite a lot of Galantamine in your system all night. Its worth a shot anyway, I think next time I will try the WBTB again though with 8mg this time, and 300mcg which is 0.03 mg of Melatonin to help me fall back to sleep faster, this is recomended in the book, and since the Galantamine seems to induce insomnia in me, this may be the missing link in my case, as well as the person's who started this thread. We'll see.



I think that's a better approach.

If your issue is insomnia, take the galantamine 5-6 hours into your sleep and go back to bed with an alarm to wake you in 1 hour. You will naturally be groggy when you wake. When I WBTB w/ galantamine, I watch TV and typically fall asleep for at least 20-30 min. The galantamine wakes me at roughly the 1 hour point and I can typically pull off a WILD as I'm ready to fall back to sleep anyway.

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## moe007

> Since you have Yuschaks book, have a look at the half life data for galantamine. That response, coupled with the natural tendency for deep sleep early in the sleep period makes that a poor strategy I think.



The half life for galantamine can last anywhere from 24-48 hours, depending on your size and metabolism.

I use it once a week, so that wouldnt be a problem for me.




> You're probably right, and I have studied the half-life, and how long Galantamine stays in your system, but even though it is at its peak an hour after taking, there would still be quite a lot of Galantamine in your system all night. Its worth a shot anyway, I think next time I will try the WBTB again though with 8mg this time, and 300mcg which is 0.03 mg of Melatonin to help me fall back to sleep faster, this is recomended in the book, and since the Galantamine seems to induce insomnia in me, this may be the missing link in my case, as well as the person's who started this thread. We'll see.



Ive studied the half life as well, it is true; galantamine stays in your system for a while after, well into the rest of the day. 

But if taken before sleep, it will keep you up because it is a stimulant. And it wouldnt work because your brain wants deep sleep in the beginning of the night, but by taking galantamine you are forcing it into REM when you arent supposed to get REM until 90 mins of non REM. 

Therefore, you will mess up your entire sleep cycle for the night, and even after 5-6 hours, you wont be able to WBTB because your sleep is off track. If you take galantamine before bed, you will not get good quality sleep, and will have shitty REM cycles. You will wake up feeling groggy and tired.

I dont recommend taking it before bed.

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## Phydeaux_3

> But if taken before sleep, it will keep you up because it is a stimulant. And it wouldnt work because your brain wants deep sleep in the beginning of the night, but by taking galantamine you are forcing it into REM when you arent supposed to get REM until 90 mins of non REM. 
> 
> Therefore, you will mess up your entire sleep cycle for the night, and even after 5-6 hours, you wont be able to WBTB because your sleep is off track. If you take galantamine before bed, you will not get good quality sleep, and will have shitty REM cycles. You will wake up feeling groggy and tired.
> 
> I dont recommend taking it before bed.



My BEST results with galantamine happened when I did just that. I took "too much" right at bedtime and almost immediately had a "spontaneous" lucid. Then after getting up and going to the bathroom I took too much again and immediately had another one. You can read all about it here.

My new batch should be coming in the mail anyday now... I'll keep you all informed.

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## Firewalker

> My BEST results with galantamine happened when I did just that. I took "too much" right at bedtime and almost immediately had a "spontaneous" lucid. Then after getting up and going to the bathroom I took too much again and immediately had another one. You can read all about it here.
> 
> My new batch should be coming in the mail anyday now... I'll keep you all informed.



I'll try this after one more WBTB attempt, though I'll probably just use two capsules for 8mg instead of 4 like you did. Some of my most intense lucid dreams seem to have come after consuming stimulatating substances such as caffeine before bedtime, so I thought this might work as the meletonin should allow you to get some deep sleep, and then the galantamine could take over.  I still want to try the WBTB with 0.03mg of Meletonin and Galantamine first though, I am glad to see that taking it before bed has produced lucid dreams though and plan to try it soon, probably next week.

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## Firewalker

I tried 8mg Galantamine this morning, never again. I took 100 mg 5-HTP 1 hour before bedtime to suppress REM for the first part of the night, (by the way 5-HTP by itself gives very vivid dreams, though it hasn't triggered any lucid dreams for me yet), slept for 4 1/2 hours, woke up went to the bathroom and took 2 4mg Galantamine capsules for 8 mg, they also contain Pantothic Acid, and Choline, so 8mg Galantamine, 500 mg Choline, 200mg Panthothic Acid. I also took 0.3mg of Melatonin to help me fall back to sleep.  I laid back down, did muscle relaxation exercises, and visualized a blue lotus with a flame in the center in my throat to try for a WILD, then I changed my mind and decided to go for a MILD, I repeated several times, Next time I'm dreaming I will realize I am dreaming, each time something else crossed my mind I did it again and eventually after about 30minutes fell asleep.

 I started dreaming, I was wading in a narrow creek about 4 feet wide, it had dense larael bushes on the banks,  I reached a hole that was probably 15 feet long, though still just as narrow, it was probably 2 feet deep, I thought there was probably a large fish in the hole and decided to fish in the hole. I visualized a large trout at the upper end of the hole, all at once I became lucid and new I was dreaming, but then I woke up immediately.
I started having vibrations and felt as if I was leaving my body, but then nothing, I was wide awake, I fell asleep briefly again, and reawaked to the vibrations, then nothing again.

Anyway, I had one lucid dream which didn't last once I realized I was dreaming, the Galantamine made me feel very sick at my stomach, after falling to sleep the second time I couldn't go back to sleep again, I've had a bad stomach ache all morning, and feel like crap.  I've had better lucid dreams not taking anything, in fact my best ones were not taking anything, I started on supplements because I have not been able to consistently induce lucid dreams, I bought the Advanced Lucid Dreaming book and thought Galantamine was the answer, it isn't. I realize it works well for many people, but it is no magic lucid dream pill, it doesn't even work as well as some less expensive things I have tried, such as L-Glutamine and Green Tea supplements or caffeine. After all this I have concluded that the trick is getting in the right state of mind, perhaps the right brain waves, probably tending towards wakefulness but still asleep, for this Galantamine can help some, but so can other less expensive things. For me at least this is my 4th try on Galantamine, twice it has worked, if you count lucid dreams that last less than a minute as working, I certainly haven't had any hours long experiences with it like the book says, and I think it wakes you up too much.  For those it works for, great, for those who were like me who thought this would be the magic answer, try if you wish, but don't get your hopes up too much.

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## dodobird

> I tried Galantamine after 4 to 6 hours of sleep, each time, and had difficulty going back to sleep, has anyone tried it before bedtime, perhaps combined with Melatonin or 5-HTP to allow you to sleep a while, I am considering trying this, I have seen dream supplements on the internet with Galantamine and 3 mg of Melatonin combined, this might be an interesting experiment, I want to try 8mg on the WBTB first though and since I just tried Galantamine  yesterday I have to wait a few more days before trying it again, has anyone already tried this thought?



Did you try L-theanine? 200mg of L-theanine taken at WBTB together with the Galantamine helps me fall back to sleep.

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## Firewalker

> Did you try L-theanine? 200mg of L-theanine taken at WBTB together with the Galantamine helps me fall back to sleep.



I haven't tried L-theanine with Galantamine, I have tried it with L-Glutamine though I just went to sleep, no lucids, though Green Tea supplements which contain L-Theanine have worked for me both by themselves and with L-Glutamine. I thought the small amount of Melatonin would help sleep as this is recommended in the book, I did return to sleep briefly, I estimate I slept 10 or 15 minutes more total, so I've had less than 5 hours sleep last night. If I do try Galantamine again I will just take 4mg, 8mg is just too much for me. I am disappointed with Galantamine, I had high hopes for it after reading Advanced Lucid Dreaming and it is expensive.

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## Robot_Butler

Moe007,
It sounds to me like you are having some success.  Intense SP with vibrations and 'exploding head' sounds like success to me.  Is this different from your normal nights WILDing?  In other words, do you get the exact same experiences both with and without the galantamine?  

If I was getting the intense SP you are describing, I would say the supplement was having the intended effect on me.  

My guess is that you are WILDing for too long, and still awake while the Galantamine kicks in.  The intense sensations you are getting could be the galantamine kicking in before you are ready for it.  Instead of making your dreams more intense, it is making your sleep paralysis and Hypnagogia more intense.

Maybe you should just work on your dream entry techniques.  That is, the technique you use to transition from SP to the dream.  

Have you tried taking the galantamine and then not doing a WILD?  Doing more of a MILD/ intention based technique where you just fall asleep with the intention to recognize dreams?  I know some people have a hard time falling asleep with the Galantamine.  If you are WILDing for an hour of more without falling asleep, you may be missing your window.  The stuff has a short half life, so you should be trying to get into a dream quickly.

I'm not at all an expert on this stuff.  I'm looking to start taking Galantamine next week for the first time.

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## moe007

> Moe007,
> It sounds to me like you are having some success.  Intense SP with vibrations and 'exploding head' sounds like success to me.  Is this different from your normal nights WILDing?  In other words, do you get the exact same experiences both with and without the galantamine?  
> 
> If I was getting the intense SP you are describing, I would say the supplement was having the intended effect on me.  
> 
> My guess is that you are WILDing for too long, and still awake while the Galantamine kicks in.  The intense sensations you are getting could be the galantamine kicking in before you are ready for it.  Instead of making your dreams more intense, it is making your sleep paralysis and Hypnagogia more intense.
> 
> Maybe you should just work on your dream entry techniques.  That is, the technique you use to transition from SP to the dream.  
> 
> ...



Hmm you may be correct.

Because without Galantamine, I cannot even get to SP.

But once i hit the extremely loud noises, and SP, theres no HI, no colors, nothing. And im very awake actually, i can open my eyes, and close them and still be in SP and exploding head syndrome.

But I dont know where to go while im in that phase..

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## moe007

My bottle of L-Dopa just arrived in the mail..

I will be experimenting with it this weekend, along with a Galantamine trail.


I will post my results asap.

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## Segunder

Don't know if anyone even cares at this point... anyway, I've been taking the multi-vitamin every night. My results thus far are incredibly realistic dreams with exceptionally high recall. Normally I can only recall fragments of dreams, a whole one at most. With the one a day I have achieved full recall of the high detail dreams. I have almost achieved lucidity as well, and was fairly excited, due to the fact that I haven't had a lucid in several months.
Excuse me if I seemed rude.

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## moe007

First night using L-Dopa....  ::banana::  SUCCESS
Longest lucid of my life. Just as Thomas Yuschak said, an increase in l-dopa, gives you the determination and courage and  the will, etc etc to get more control in your lucids. Well he was right.

I used the 15% l-dopa. I took 100mg at 6pm, and then had a very large steak dinner. Before bed, i took 400mg at around midnight.

I had the longest, and most WOW lucid Ive ever experienced. 

If you want to read it: 
*Spoiler* for _Lucid dream experience_: 



I dont remember when or how I became lucid, i just was. Everything was so clear, and I wasnt too excited for the first time. Usually My lucids are short because i get excited and wake up. So Im enjoying the scenery, I decide to have a conversation with a dream character. I grab a random one and start talking to him. Many where dumb, and didnt respond to me. I tried talking to my dad, i told him this was all a dream and he told me to leave him alone and that im crazy. Eventually I remember something like being on a sports team, and we were playing a sport something related to basketball.

The details are fuzzy, but i remember that the dream was semi-shaky and I had to regain lucidity many times, barely. I didnt have 100% full control either. I tried to look behind doors, and WILL that certain people to be there, and they werent. After alot of no success, I decided to find a girl and  :smiley: . Eventually I remember i found a random girl and start to kiss her, Everything went black, and i dont remember what happened afterwards. Its like my eyes just closed. I dont remember when i woke up or when the lucid dream ended, or if it was a false awakening. 

It was an  amazing dream. After I woke up, and remembered this, i fell back to sleep instantly, and had a nice non-lucid that i was building a hospital in the middle of africa for the poor kids with AIDs.

It was the longest lucid ive ever had.




But yeah, it was amazing. 

I for SURE, recommend l-dopa over galantamine.


Just incase this is a Placebo, i will be trying this on friday night as well.

I will post more replys if i remember any other details.

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## Firewalker

I think dopamine stimuation may be the answer as well, I'm going to try N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine tonight and see what happens, I doubt it will stimuate dopamine as much as your L-Dopa but it may be enough, I hope anyway. Some of my most vivid lucids have ocurred after consuming large amounts of caffeine, and I feel this is partly because caffeine stimulates dopamine and adrenal functions. 

I wish I hadn't wasted my money on Galantamine, I know it works for some people but for me it was a complete waste.

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## Robot_Butler

It worked! That sounds amazing.  Lets hope this works every time.

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## Nazzul

> My research showed that it's best to take Galantamine with both Choline _and_ B5. 
> 
> Sounds to me like you're too stressed about it. Stress is the ultimate lucid dream killer.



I would have to dissagre with that. I have had the best lucid dreams, WILDS, and auditory hallucinations because I was stressed and depressed. This may be diffrent for everyone but I usually have the most exciting dreams and crazy ones is when im under alot of stress. I usualy dont have lucid dreams when im less stressed so I doubt that stress will stop LDing.

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## Arthurium

This works about 50% of the time for me:

-4mg Galantamine
-500mg Choline
-100mg B5
-100mg B6
-1 dose B12
-3mg Melatonin

I take them all at like 3am, stay up till about 3:45 and WILD.

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## moe007

> I think dopamine stimuation may be the answer as well, I'm going to try N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine tonight and see what happens, I doubt it will stimuate dopamine as much as your L-Dopa but it may be enough, I hope anyway. Some of my most vivid lucids have ocurred after consuming large amounts of caffeine, and I feel this is partly because caffeine stimulates dopamine and adrenal functions. 
> 
> I wish I hadn't wasted my money on Galantamine, I know it works for some people but for me it was a complete waste.



I dont think that is the same as galantamine's function, but it may work.




> It worked! That sounds amazing.  Lets hope this works every time.



I will try again tonight, since Ive waited 36 hours since the last time; just to be sure.. Although l-dopa's half life is only 12 hours.

Just an FYI, it was a DILD. I didn't use it to wild, I took it before bed and I eventually just became lucid (refer to my post above for the time/dose)




> This works about 50% of the time for me:
> 
> -4mg Galantamine
> -500mg Choline
> -100mg B5
> -100mg B6
> -1 dose B12
> -3mg Melatonin
> 
> I take them all at like 3am, stay up till about 3:45 and WILD.



This is basically the typical galantamine/choline combo, but you have added melatonin; to help you fall asleep correct?
B5 and B6 as well as traces of B12 are found in Galantamind pills, the ones i use for my galantamine experiments. I found that even by taking extra B vitamins, it still did not work half as good as the l-dopa alone.

Ive tried your combination, and it didnt really work for me. I even used that same combo, but with 12mg galantamine and 850 choline; still nothing, although my sleep paralysis was very intense.

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## moe007

Trying it tonight as well.

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## moe007

So, I learned something new today.

Previously, in Thomas Yuschak's book; he discusses how you should not take l-dopa with galantamine because it will reduce your lucidity chances to almost 0%. 

I decided not to listen to him and to try it anyways.3

I took 400mg l-dopa and my 12mg/850mg galantamine/choline combo.

I had a lucid that lasted for maybe less than a minute. 

Argh.

Sunday night I will try the l-dopa again, but only l-dopa; nothing else. So I can see how its works, and if it helps give lucidity.

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## dodobird

> So, I learned something new today.
> 
> Previously, in Thomas Yuschak's book; he discusses how you should not take l-dopa with galantamine because it will reduce your lucidity chances to almost 0%. 
> 
> I decided not to listen to him and to try it anyways.3
> 
> I took 400mg l-dopa and my 12mg/850mg galantamine/choline combo.
> 
> I had a lucid that lasted for maybe less than a minute. 
> ...



I think you are mistaken, he did recommended taking L-dopa in the form of Mucuna Pruriens with the Galantamine, to improve dream control.

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## moe007

> I think you are mistaken, he did recommended taking L-dopa in the form of Mucuna Pruriens with the Galantamine, to improve dream control.



You should re-read that section bro  :smiley: 

He said when he took Mucuna Pruriens WITH galantamine, lucidity was almost 0%.

But when Mucuna Pruriens where taken some time BEFORE your galantamine; it made all the difference in the world.


For me; i took them at the same time  ::roll::

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## dodobird

> You should re-read that section bro 
> 
> He said when he took Mucuna Pruriens WITH galantamine, lucidity was almost 0%.
> 
> But when Mucuna Pruriens where taken some time BEFORE your galantamine; it made all the difference in the world.
> 
> 
> For me; i took them at the same time



Just checked, he said that if your dose is under 100mg L-dopa, you can take it with the Galantamine, and if its above 100mg, you should take it one hour before or it will reduce your chance of becoming lucid. 
Maybe we got a different addition of the book or something, but here he doesn't say it reduces the chances to 0% but only that it generally reduces the chances at that doses.
In any case, thanks for reminding me to reread this section, I quite forgot about it.

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## moe007

> Just checked, he said that if your dose is under 100mg L-dopa, you can take it with the Galantamine, and if its above 100mg, you should take it one hour before or it will reduce your chance of becoming lucid. 
> Maybe we got a different addition of the book or something, but here he doesn't say it reduces the chances to 0&#37; but only that it generally reduces the chances at that doses.
> In any case, thanks for reminding me to reread this section, I quite forgot about it.



Hmm weird. I too, just reread the section; it doesnt say up to 100mg with galantamine, it says 80-200mg is alright.

I bought my book recently maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago?

But yeah. When I did it, i took 400mg l-dopa with the galantamine; thats why it didnt work. But I wanted to try it anyways.

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## moe007

Last night i took 450mg l-dopa before bedtime.

Had some extremely vivid dreams, and a very short lucid one. As soon as I became lucid I woke up. But that is my fault, not the l-dopa.

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## Firewalker

I tried Galantamine at bedtime last night, and it did not work, I didn't remember a single dream, I didn't have any trouble going to sleep though, but no dream recall at all, I had also taken a DMAE supplement earlier in the day, and drank a AMP Relaunch energy drink, but no luck, although I do hold out hope for the DMAE because it is not something that is supposed to work right way but is cumulative, but I have just about given up on Galantamine.

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## Robot_Butler

I've tried Galantamine/Choline a couple times over the past two weeks. It works for me, but it gives me the worst insomnia.  I lie awake in bed for 2-3 hours before I enter SP and a brief lucid.  I'm going to keep messing with the dose and timing to see if I can get it right.

Firewalker, you should try taking your GM during a WBTB, after 4-5 hours of sleep.

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## Firewalker

I've tried it with WBTB several times, it has worked for very short lucids a few times, but nothing like I expected. I thought I would try before bed, it didn't work, but I might try it again with WBTB some time again though.

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## Robot_Butler

Oh, sorry I just noticed that.  I'm a dummy sometimes.

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## moe007

Ive tried galantamine/choline somany times now ive lost count. It hasnt work at all for me.

It just keeps me awake for 3 hours, and gives me a headache in the morning. I get some SP. but no HI or lucids.

Im going to try to actually stay up for an hour during WBTB, usually i take it and sleep immedietly

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## Firewalker

I've found that if I don't try to go to sleep immediately and try for a DILD, I won't be able to go to sleep for about 2 hours. Although I have had a couple of very short DILD's coupled with a extremely short OBE type experience after staying awake for 2 hours. But these experiences were extremely low level, I've had much better experiences on other substances or on nothing at all, though I have not found a way to have them when I choose, I'll sometimes have a couple of good days with two or three lucids a night, and think I've got the hang of it, then nothing for sometimes months, though the method worked great at first. I thought Galantamine would work wonders, but it isn't what I hoped for.

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## jed001

i know your feeling i have tried G/C with about the same results you get. i end up with the same vivid dreams that i get when taking B6

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## jed001

> My research showed that it's best to take Galantamine with both Choline _and_ B5.  
> 
> Sounds to me like you're too stressed about it.  Stress is the ultimate lucid dream killer.



 what does the B5 do?

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## jed001

nice, i am waiting for my l-dopa right now , i hope i have the same results that you did

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## jed001

took 300mg of l-dopa after sleeping for 5 hours and i had the best LD i have had in awhile. did three RCs  in the dream and i also summoned a DC

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## lucidsoma

When I take 8 mg of Galantamine (Galantamind) I CANT lucid dream, however I feel like I'm astrally projecting (I only get half-way out though). Also, it gives me terrible stomach problems for a day or two after. 

4 mg seems to work much better for me. Great lucid dreams with good control and recall  :smiley:

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## mcwillis

After reading this thread it just reinforces why I don't have any interest in popping pills to have lucid dreams.

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## Wolfie893

tried l-dopa last night, 300mg, did absolutely nothing.
dunno if i tried things slightly wrong, i went to bed, woke up as i usually do and took it, then noticed by the clock i'd only been asleep for 2.5 hours :-|
had some long and involved dreams, but i do anyways so it's nothing i'd chalk up to the drug. not even the slightest hint of lucidity.

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## madvorak

L-dopa does NOT trigger lucid dreaming. However it makes it much more enjoyable when you have one. It boosts your dopamine level and thus gives you much better control.
Thomas Yuschak says in Advanced Lucid Dreaming The Power of Supplements:
Mucuna Pruriens (natural source of L-dopa) does not act as a lucid dream trigger. Furthermore if a large dose of Mucuna is taken with Galantamine, the odds of becoming lucid seem to be somewhat reduced. (...) There are no other supplements I have found that have this effect. Advanced flying is possible, moving through walls or other objects seems incredibly natural, and changing your dreamscape is made much easier.

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## Wolfie893

yeah. seemed to work for jed001 above so i thought i'd try. guess i wasn't as lucky.

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## Wolfie893

frick, kipped in this morning cos i had one of the mentallest dreams ever, semi-lucid. woke up at about 2am from a zombie dream and could NOT get back to sleep so i thought i'd take a galantamine and dopabean dose. two hours later, still awake listening to the rain, and then i slipped off into a complete horror show that began w/ hearing voices of idiots in the street that changed into being demons/monsters outside the window : i was curled up in bed and put my glasses on and the window was far away etc so i realised i was in a dream. i say "semi-lucid" cos i was controlling bits but some of the stuff i tried to do didn't work. there was some completely looney/psycho stuff going on w/ ghosts and demons and serial killers but i never felt frightened or out of control etc.

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## 61284

Galantamine just makes me so wired that I can't go back to sleep, irrespective of the dose. Anyone had any luck with the amino acid blend? A friend of mine has just ordered the ingredients and is going to give it a bash.

I gave up on the whole supplements thing as I work a lot and need quality sleep and all this nocturnal experimentation was leaving me knackered in the morning, yay for regular sleep.

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