# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  Isochronic tones: the future of binaurals

## Maria92

I have come across something rather interesting. It seems that there exists something called isochronic tones. These tones are similar to their binaural counterparts, but are more effective, easier to create, and tend to be easier to use. Audacity can be used to create these tones with relative ease, and I have found a WORKING tutorial that accurately explains how to do this. I will post the link if anyone wants it. 

Isochronics use the same principle that binaurals use. However, instead of using a tone imbalance between the two ear pieces on a set of headphones, they use evenly-spaced sound blips. The spacing determines the frequency, in hertz.

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## Saturos

So, are these better than binaurals? Also, how long is the tutorial?

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## Maria92

Very much so. 

The tutorial, provided you have audacity, is easy to read and do. Altogether, it'll take about 5-10 minutes to grasp what's going on, but once you do, you'll be able to make your own tones in a matter of minutes. If you don't have audacity, you'll have to download it for free (just Google "audacity" and click the first link. You want version 1.2.6). Overall...about 15 minutes at most from start to finish. Also, unlike binaurals, these beats can be played without headphones. Surround sound, anyone?

At any rate, here's the tutorial.
http://isochronic-tones.blogspot.com...sing-sine.html

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## LightningMunk

dumb question probably haha, but how would this relate to helping me with lucid dreaming?

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## Maria92

Ah, glad you asked...

When a person enters the dream state, their brainwaves drop to a specific frequency, usually between 4 and 7 hertz. What binaurals and isochronics do is play a beat at that specific frequency range, and causes the brainwaves to sync with that beat through a phenomenon known as entrainment. Theoretically, if these beats are played before bed and with relatively few distractions, the brain will already be in the dreaming mode, and should help contribute to dream vividness, intensity, and - dare I say - lucidness. 

Hope this helped!  ::D:

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## Conkt

So should we replace the 194.18 Hz in the tut with 4-7?

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## LightningMunk

soooo....lets say i make a high quality mp3 of the the tones and put it on my iPod and play it before i go to sleep, or while going to sleep, are you saying that once I fall asleep I will be in that vivid/lucid state then? or will my mind slowly phase from the awakened state to the vivid/lucid state while listening to the tones?

and by the way, maybe someone can make a mp3 of the specific tones that are optimal for this, since i would love to try it and report back if it works  ::D:

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## Conkt

I have made a 15 minute MP3 of the tone described in the tutorial. Also, this: 



> soooo....lets say i make a high quality mp3 of the the tones and put it on my iPod and play it before i go to sleep, or while going to sleep, are you saying that once I fall asleep I will be in that vivid/lucid state then? or will my mind slowly phase from the awakened state to the vivid/lucid state while listening to the tones?

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## Jhony

> I have made a 15 minute MP3 of the tone described in the tutorial. Also, this:



Can you post it because I am having some difficulty with the part about replicating.

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## Maria92

> Can you post it because I am having some difficulty with the part about replicating.



To replicate it, just select the entire track thus far with Ctrl + a, then hit the end key, then go to the top and click paste. Repeat. 





> soooo....lets say i make a high quality mp3 of the the tones and put it on my iPod and play it before i go to sleep, or while going to sleep, are you saying that once I fall asleep I will be in that vivid/lucid state then? or will my mind slowly phase from the awakened state to the vivid/lucid state while listening to the tones?
> 
> and by the way, maybe someone can make a mp3 of the specific tones that are optimal for this, since i would love to try it and report back if it works



It will jump into the dreaming/lucid state much faster and/or remain in that state for a longer period of time. The brain changes state many times in the night, but with luck, it should hang out more in the butter zone for longer periods of time. 





> So should we replace the 194.18 Hz in the tut with 4-7?



No, the 194.18 is the base frequency. The one you want to replace is the entry on the very bottom, the tone length. It is equal to 1/(desired frequency x 2). So, a 5hz. frequency corresponds to 1/(5 x 2), or 1/10, which is equal to .1.

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## Conkt

MP3 http://www.mediafire.com/?14jim52admj

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## LightningMunk

So have either of you (Conkt or Mario92) have had success with this? I mean its all good in theory, but only really useful to the DreamViews community if it works haha  :smiley:

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## C-Fonz

I'll attempt to test this tonight...

I'll put Conkt's MP3 in my zune tonight and listen to it for 15 Minutes then go to bed shortly after.

If that doesn't work I'll try for 30 minutes the next night.

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## Tushix

How is the brain already being in the dream mode helpful though? How does it work?

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## Supernova

> Ah, glad you asked...
> 
> When a person enters the dream state, their brainwaves drop to a specific frequency, usually between 4 and 7 hertz. What binaurals and isochronics do is play a beat at that specific frequency range, and causes the brainwaves to sync with that beat through a phenomenon known as entrainment. Theoretically, if these beats are played before bed and with relatively few distractions, the brain will already be in the dreaming mode, and should help contribute to dream vividness, intensity, and - dare I say - lucidness. 
> 
> Hope this helped!



Not to mention it should be a big help for WILDing  :wink2: 

So this is a 5Htz tone Conkt made correct?

I'm burning a CD now, I'll try it out tonight.

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## Naiya

I can never get these things to work for me. For example, I tried one for relieving stress and it was just this loud, annoying series of beeps that grated on my nerves and made me even more on edge. I just can't get past the annoying sound of the things. 

Anyone have any suggestions on that? I'd love to be able to try the different tones and see what kinds of feelings come up, but so far the only one I ever get is aggravation.  :tongue2:

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## Conkt

The one I made is the one from the tutorial, at 10 HTz, made for medetation. I don't know if it will work for wilding, but it does clear the mind. I turned it on and listened to it while I lay in bed the other night, and I get this really weird feeling. I had some tremors, though not like SP. After about half an hour, I got this almost euphoric feeling, and I just wanted to hug my speaker system. It felt like the centre of my universe was right beside my bed, in the form of my Ipod dock. Kinda hard to explain...

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## Maria92

> So have either of you (Conkt or Mario92) have had success with this? I mean its all good in theory, but only really useful to the DreamViews community if it works haha



Yeah, I've only had one lucid, but the times when I listen to the beats before bed usually give me very vivid dreams/improve dream recall.





> I can never get these things to work for me. For example, I tried one for relieving stress and it was just this loud, annoying series of beeps that grated on my nerves and made me even more on edge. I just can't get past the annoying sound of the things. 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on that? I'd love to be able to try the different tones and see what kinds of feelings come up, but so far the only one I ever get is aggravation.



You could try lowering the volume and setting it to some sort of soft music. It would lose a bit of its effectiveness, but it would be much less annoying.

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## Naiya

Mario: ooh good idea with the music. Maybe in conjunction with singing bowl tracks or something.  :smiley:  Thanks, will try that!

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## detroitLions1970

Mario, this is awesome and everything, but I need to straighten a few things out for people. I hope you don't mind.

First of all, it is important to display that isochronic tones can be hazardous to people with certain conditions. If you suffer from epilepsy, mental illness, or are sensitive to flashing lights, you should not use isochronic tones as they may trigger your condition.

Now thats out of the way, I'll get on to my point:




> ... When a person enters the dream state, their brainwaves drop to a specific frequency, usually between 4 and 7 hertz...



This is true, but different regions of the brain are at different frequencies. Some regions are more aroused as others... So not all areas are in the delta range.




> ...What binaurals and isochronics do is play a beat at that specific frequency range, and causes the brainwaves to sync with that beat through a phenomenon known as entrainment...



True; to an extent. It has been found that the brainwave change shown in isochronic tones eminates from a part of the medulla oblangata (brain stem). So, in reality, the effect is not so much modifying the brain's waves as a whole, but more of a new wave that eminates from the brain stem - Which, in effect, *does* affect the brainwaves in the brain, but not in all sectors.




> No, the 194.18 is the base frequency. The one you want to replace is the entry on the very bottom, the tone length. It is equal to 1/(desired frequency x 2). So, a 5hz. frequency corresponds to 1/(5 x 2), or 1/10, which is equal to .1.



I am not *entirely* sure on this, so excuse me if the info is unreliable, but I have heard around here and there that the carrier frequency has an effect on entrainment (IE: You can tie in a frequency with effects you would like to the carrier frequency, obviously of at least 100hZ though). Personally, I've never noticed anything new from it, just comfort depending on the type of sound you feel like listening to. Just thought I'd put that out there if people are interested.




> The one I made is the one from the tutorial, at 10 HTz, made for medetation. I don't know if it will work for wilding, but it does clear the mind. I turned it on and listened to it while I lay in bed the other night, and I get this really weird feeling. I had some tremors, though not like SP. After about half an hour, I got this almost euphoric feeling, and I just wanted to hug my speaker system. It felt like the centre of my universe was right beside my bed, in the form of my Ipod dock. Kinda hard to explain...



10hZ has been tied (allegedly) to stimulation of the adrenals. Remember kids, certain tones (allegedly) cause the body to release certain neurotransmitters; neurotransmitters are what drugs alter the levels of to produce their effects. I'll drop some evidence here if I ever find some.




> Mario: ooh good idea with the music. Maybe in conjunction with singing bowl tracks or something.  Thanks, will try that!



Remember, mixing it with music will degrade the overall effect. Its best served raw for the best effect  :wink2: . You could always try producing the target yourself in Audacity and choosing a carrier frequency you find pleasant... Deeper freqs. (say, 80hZ?) can produce a soft sound that might be easier to listen to.

*Stops for breath*. I hope things are a little clearer now, and I hope I provided some useful info.

Good job with the thread Mario, keep me updated  :smiley: .

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## Maria92

Thanks, man! Yeah, I'm fuzzy on the specifics...heh. A disclaimer probably should've been posted earlier on, huh?  :Oops:  

All I know is that they do crazy stuff. I actually heard voices and soft music while listening to them...it was cool.

Conkt, that's some kinda crazy effect. Sounds pretty awesome, though. Amazing how sound alone can do that to a person.  ::D:

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## C-Fonz

OK so, I tried Conkt's version of the Isochronic tones MP3.  First off I should tell you I have never had a lucid dream and therefore a WILD by extension.  However, I have attempted to do sleep paralysis and know somewhat of what it feels like when your body is starting to fall asleep.

With that said...

I laid for 15 minutes listening to these tones and felt the onset of paralysis much much quicker than laying there without the tones.  I got to a level in 15 minutes that took me 45 minutes to do without stimulation.  It was just a quick test to see what would happen.  So, my theory is that the sounds trick your body into thinking that your brain is going to sleep faster than normal, therefore a quicker onset of paralysis.  

True it was only one test, and my credentials are weak at best.  But all the more interesting still.

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## LightningMunk

well, even though you achieve sleep paralysis, that is still an amazing success, at least from my knowledge of things. from a sleep paralysis state (also known as Mind Awake Body Asleep) you can from do whats called an Astral Projection, or out of body experience, with alot greater ease than from the previous normal waking state. So if someone on the board is into Astral Projection, and sees the audio, try it, see if you can get into sleep paralysis well, and try an astral projection technique, i know i am going to try it tomorrow  :smiley:

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## Specialis Sapientia

Hmm, I have downloaded the 15 min. sample. 

I will test the effect(s)  :smiley: 

Cool with some new sounds, I wasn't aware of Isochronic tones. I know that Binaural-beats and Hemispheric Synchronization has been throughout researched and validated. 

Any links on it?

Btw: some picture on the effects on brainwaves with binaural beats:











(Notice some are demonstrative)

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## Folqueraine

Nice info, thanks. However the tutorial did not say wether this requires using stereo headphones or not. Do you know any more about this?

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## Specialis Sapientia

> Nice info, thanks. However the tutorial did not say wether this requires using stereo headphones or not. Do you know any more about this?



You don't need stereo, but I would advise to have stereo headphones when dealing with audio like this, as most require it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are many more isochronic tones: (Note: some require stereo)

http://iso-tones.com/tones.html

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## Balder

Binaural beats never work for me.
But I tried this last night and got a lucid dream, it could just have been a coincidence so I try it again this night and tell you my result tomorrow.

I did like this:

Listen to the tones in my bed for 15 minutes until I got tired 
and then turned it off, put my mp3 on my bed table and was going to sleep.
And I got lucid.

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## LightningMunk

> Binaural beats never work for me.
> But I tried this last night and got a lucid dream, it could just have been a coincidence so I try it again this night and tell you my result tomorrow.
> 
> I did like this:
> 
> Listen to the tones in my bed for 15 minutes until I got tired 
> and then turned it off, put my mp3 on my bed table and was going to sleep.
> And I got lucid.




did you use earphones or headphones with that?

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## Balder

Headphones to my mp3

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## LightningMunk

epicness, were you able to control your dream and everything? since lucidness is just the state of being aware, not necessarily have control of the dream. and can you try again tonite with the same routine and see if you get a lucid dream?

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## Balder

This was my fourth lucid dream but I have to say that the awareness here was very high.
But I try again tonight

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## gugvg

im gonna try it tonite

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## A dreamer168

What is the best thing to set the waves at to ensure lucid dreams?

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## LightningMunk

i really have no clue, since i just tried them last night, listened to them for 15 minutes (kept hearing a clicking sound), then took them off, set them on my dresser, and went to sleep...no lucid dreams, but still had normal dreams, around the same amount of vividness, maybe a little more detailed, but thats usual fluctuation.

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## A dreamer168

There is a theta sound in the tutorial, will that give me LDs

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## Maria92

theta is the desired range for lucid dreams. Effects vary from person to person, though...in theory, it should help you to become lucid, but is no substitute for constant alertness and/or autosuggestion.

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## A dreamer168

I followed the path of dream yoga...what more could I do to be aware? That's why I need help.

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## Maria92

Well, you could certainly try autosuggestion. It worked wonders for me. You have to be diligent and constant about it, and find a mantra that works for you, but if you do have any success with it, it will become a very easy skill to master. WILDing would also be a good idea, if possible.

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## A dreamer168

Thank you, but don't I have to be put in a trance for autosuggestion? If not, what are some of the things I need to do?

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## Naiya

I'm gonna have to try this again as suggested soon...it would be really cool if I could get it to work.  :tongue2:

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## Robot_Butler

I will try this tonight, also.  I haven't had a lot of success with binaural beats when it comes to lucid dreaming.  I use them for other types of meditations, but have never had them help with LD or OBE.

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## Maria92

> Thank you, but don't I have to be put in a trance for autosuggestion? If not, what are some of the things I need to do?



Nah. Autosuggestion uses mnemonic memory devices, similar to ROY G BIV to help you remember to realize you're dreaming. Simply repeating a phrase over and over again will cause it to soak into your subconscious, and should help to trigger lucids. I use the mantra, "I AM dreaming," with plenty of conviction, and even when I'm conscious, the thought tends to randomly pop into my head. It was through this technique that I had my first lucid, and almost became lucid once more.  :Bang head:  So close...

For the mantra to work effectively, I suggest repeating it mentally whenever you think about it, whenever you have a moment to yourself, etc. Check out the MILD tutorial for more information.

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## LightningMunk

http://iso-tones.com/tones.html


just found this site, thought all you guys here at DV would like it  :smiley:  tons of Iso-tones for any sort of situation  :smiley:

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## Novise

I youtubed it and listened to this, it was much better than I expected.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FQZ71hv4ko

I could see myself listening to things like this before bed.  Just through the speakers not headphones.  I felt that bliss that is there with dreaming at times.  Like dreams were going on without my specific knowledge.  There to be recalled, but I just wasn't in a state near asleep enough to experience them.

But really I imagine this could backfire.  If you stimulate those wave levels, aren't they satisfied so to speak?  Or maybe they get tired from use.  Then when you go to sleep there is no reason for the brain to use them as they have already been used and served their purpose that day.

It's very nice, very positive, but if you exhaust those parts of your brain while awake won't there be no energy in them while asleep?  I could be wrong, don't know much about this, but that's my obvious question.

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## snowman3k

tried with binaural beats as iphone prog...had regular dreams, no lucidity and a slight headache...I won't be messing with binaural any longer as I don't think it's a necessary practice to get lucid dreams..

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## tulamidan

Loads of "I will try this tonight" posts... but not much feedback.

So how was the success and which settings did you use?

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## Maria92

I personally didn't spend much time with them, to be honest. My lucid count is too few and too inconsistent to make a good test subject.

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## Spliph

Interesting. HemiSync had some effect on me, perhaps this will too.

Gonna try this out, I'll report back when I can

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## Spliph

Well, i tried the "Sleep" one and I fell asleep like lightning fast. 

Don't even remember my last thoughts before sleep. I simply got in bed, closed my eyes and I was gone. Wasn't even that tired...

Guess they really do work. Some sounds are a bit aggressive though, but I find it easy not to listen to them, but simply hear them.

I'll try more of the others and report back when I can.

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## dallyup52

Thanks for the links.  I went to one site and downloaded several mp3 .. elongated them to over an hour and now have to get them on my ipod to use them.  I deleted itunes a while ago.  Guess I will  have to put it back on the computer.
Elongating them is easy with Neros' wave editor.  Just copy and paste.

Hemisync works great for me so it will be interesting to see.  I have 30-50 lucid/obe's a month on average.  

Sam

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## A dreamer168

Do you think the Deep meditation one can be used for LDs?

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## dallyup52

I got the iso tones on my ipod and woke at 2AM two nights and listened to the "tunes".  I found them a bit irritating and did not have any particular lucid/obe response to them. I did not relax any faster or deeper that I can tell so far.  I will try them a few more nights and see.  Two nights is a bit of a short test.
I realize my response is only my personal experience and others may get a lot out of these tunes. I will be interested to hear others responses.
Sam

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## PercyLucid

Does someone know where can I download one of these?  I can't create my own cuz I use Linux Ubuntu and the software wont work!

A mp3 would be great so I can add it in my I-pod.

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## Spliph

> Does someone know where can I download one of these?  I can't create my own cuz I use Linux Ubuntu and the software wont work!
> 
> A mp3 would be great so I can add it in my I-pod.



iso-tones.com

I wish there was one for dream recall... Maybe ill email the admin

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## WanderingMind

Ok. I only used these one night, but I think I had some crazy effects.

I was only slightly more tired from the previous night, and I did something that might have clouded my mind.
But I tried the tones out anyway. I just recently thumbed through my copy of Mastering Astral Projection and noticed that there was an excerpt that said something similar about the sounds.

I wasn't trying to skip ahead, but I wondered.

Anyway, I did the sleep 20 minute tone, and the lucid dreaming 30 minute tone. I got up to get water between the two. 
I slept what felt to be unusually deep, but I woke up much earlier. I just grabbed some water (And flicked the light on for half a second), but went right back to bed. 
I didn't have a lucid dream, but at one point I noticed that when I closed my eyes, everything seemed to get really bright and white. Nothing happened, but it did make me wonder. 
Then after that I opened my eyes and there was a bunch of haze in my eyes.

Don't know if that means much, but I'm going to try three (Meditation, Sleep, Lucid Dreaming) tonight. Thanks for the information folks.

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## A dreamer168

How are you trying three, WanderingMind?

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## WanderingMind

> How are you trying three, WanderingMind?



(I didn't have time last night, but now I'm doing two every night at the very least).

Basically my plan was to sit and meditate for 30 minutes with the deep meditation tone. Then I was going to get in bed and listen to the 20 minute sleep tape. After that, I listen to the lucid dreaming tape.

No major results yet. That white felt a little brighter last night, and I did recall a few things in my dream. I'm debating whether I should listen to the meditation tone before I go to Muay Thai today or not. I might.

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## WanderingMind

I keep failing at it. lol
I just do my two every night. No martial arts today, so I should have time to do the deep meditation.

I feel I am recalling dreams better than normal. Some crazy details are popping out (Like today I had some weird zombie fight game dream where it felt like I was in it, but it was on wii too. I had a bat in one hand and a gun in another. I did some weird move to go from one hand to two hands with the bat, and I started bashing zombie skull. Or maybe it was living human skulls. I'm not quite sure. lol)

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## kjarva

Well I had a bash at using some tones downloaded from iso-tones last night. I tried the float tone which was pretty bizarre and also the magic tone which was outstandingly trippy. I would definitely be of the opinion that they do something and are worth a bit more experimentation on my part.

At one point while listening I realised that I had involuntary rapid eye movement while awake, which freaked me out somewhat. My other half is a doctor and seems pretty interested in testing them with me to see what kind of effects they have. He's always the rational, sciencey one so we're going to keep experimenting  :smiley:

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## Bubble

I'm not sure about the tones inducing lucid dreams yet, but I had a nagging headache today (forgot to take my allergy medicine) and listening to "Headache Relief - Relaxed" from iso-tones.com with headphones on definitely gave me some relief. I've tried other "headache relief" music/sounds/tones and never had any results that were worthwhile. I'm going to try some on a relative who has chronic migraines and see if they offer her some relief. I'm listening to the regular Lucidity tone right now, and I'm going to try the Lucid Spike tone as I fall asleep in a little while. This is in addition to all of the other stuff I'm doing, so even if I have a lucid tonight, I don't know if I can give the tones 100% of the credit. I'll report back tomorrow.

Incidentally, some of these tones actually sound a LOT like the sounds I hear when I'm experiencing the onset of sleep paralysis. Especially the first Lucid Dreaming one. It's eerie.

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## Bubble

Reporting back:
No lucid dreams from the tones. Used "Sleep", "Lucid Dreaming", and "Lucid Spike". My dreams were particularly vivid, and I recalled 4 as opposed to my usual 2-3, but that doesn't mean that the tones did that either, as my dream recall has improved a lot over the past 2 weeks or so. I had one not-quite-lucid, my second-to-last dream of the morning, but by then the tones were finished, so I can't really attribute that one to the tones. 

"Sleep" was pretty soothing, though, and helped me get to sleep last night.

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## starzandstripes

I found this thread interesting since I own my own home recording studio.  I have made the Isochronic tones before.  Most people I've used them with find the raw tones hard to listen to, so putting in some music can help.  What people forget is that you can also find ways to make music at similar frequencies to maximize the effects.  If you aren't open minded or simply think the raw tones or binuaral beats are annoying, they probably wont work for you because your mind has created a barrier.   Peole use this for all kinds of reasons like meditation, Lucid dreaming, Dream recall,  OBE's, Subliminal messages ect.  Over the summer, I have some free time and was thinking about creating some different types of Isochronic tones.  If I do, I will post a link on here to them and you can try them and see if you like them.  I believe this concept, (really hemi-sync) has awesome potential not only for our uses, but also many more potential uses such as medicinal and general well being.

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## starzandstripes

I ntoiced some people were curious about the frequencies.  Here is some info that shows some common things,

Frequency range Name Usually associated with: 

> 40 Hz Gamma waves -  Higher mental activity, including perception, problem solving, fear, and consciousness 

1340 Hz Beta waves - Active, busy or anxious thinking and active concentration, arousal, cognition 

713 Hz Alpha waves -  Relaxation (while awake), pre-sleep and pre-wake drowsiness 

47 Hz - Theta waves - Dreams, deep meditation, REM sleep 

< 4 Hz Delta waves - Deep dreamless sleep, loss of body awareness

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## WanderingMind

I've just been playing around with the playlists a bit.

I noticed that today when I took a nap, I had a decent dream (Short nap of 30 minutes), and my SP was a bit different than normal. I listened to the subliminal lucid and recall for just a few minutes before while looking at a few pictures of my girlfriend. Isochronics make up most of my playlists though, and I listened to about three last night.

Usually when I go through SP, it feels like my blanket suddenly gets heavier, and it feels like someone is holding me sometimes. Today I felt these waves travel through my body. Like my bed was shaking in an earthquake.
Another thing I noticed is that this all happened while sleeping on the right side of my body, and I almost never have any REM unless I sleep on the left. Not that it's major progress, but it's something in my book.

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## starzandstripes

> Usually when I go through SP, it feels like my blanket suddenly gets heavier, and it feels like someone is holding me sometimes. Today I felt these waves travel through my body. Like my bed was shaking in an earthquake.
> Another thing I noticed is that this all happened while sleeping on the right side of my body, and I almost never have any REM unless I sleep on the left. Not that it's major progress, but it's something in my book.




This is what I feel when I have an OBE or what other may call a WILD.  Regardless of what I or others believe it is, it certainly is something and worth logging in any book.  It will be interesting to see if you have it again and can see it through to see where it takes you.  Very Cool!

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## Tribly

Trying this tonight, hopefully will have my first WILD with assistance, thanks for posting  :wink2:

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## Illusi0n

Well I already know this tones and sometimes I use them in WILD attempts. Surprisingly it works extremely well (1/2 success rate). I sincerely don't believe in the theory beyond the tones as I don't believe about the theory of the binaural ones. I think I have so much success with these tones because they are extremely repetitive what makes them a perfect anchor for WILD.  I normally use are Mind Trap (perfect), Lucid dreaming and void.

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## pointofbeing

don't know if this was linked on this site anywhere, didn't see it in this thread:   http://www.iso-tones.com/tones.html

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## pointofbeing

the Lucid spike file is awesome!  It give you time to re relax after waking for wbtb like 20-25 min of silence then slowly builds in.

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## pointofbeing

He he looks like it was linked already...  :Oops: :

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## WanderingMind

I've been using the heck out of isochronics as well as binaurals. I've had great success with sleep, and of course am going up in lucid dreams. I hope to try again tonight with lucid spike.

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## mindwanderer

Okay. So I followed the tutorial step for step except I switched the 'Length' from .05 to 1/10 like you said (1/desired frequency x2). So will it work? I have it in MP3 and it's 18 minutes long.

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## Maria92

That should just about do it. Mind, though, that what you have created is a single tone at the theta state. A more effective method of brain wave entrainment would be to split it up into several "steps" that begin at normal resting position (usually about 15 hertz) and gradually work down to 5 hertz.

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## mindwanderer

> That should just about do it. Mind, though, that what you have created is a single tone at the theta state. A more effective method of brain wave entrainment would be to split it up into several "steps" that begin at normal resting position (usually about 15 hertz) and gradually work down to 5 hertz.



Alright! Thanks! Well, I'm going to skip using mine tonight because I have some premade ones I got that I'll try. I'll play 'Lucid' before I goto bed, and do WBTB and play 'Lucid Spike'. 

Thanks again!

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## Zenman

I researched binaurals a few years ago and never once came across any double blind or convincing studies that proved the brain waves entrain to the binaurals.  I haven't searched for isochronic studies but I suspect it will be hard to find those too.

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## Maria92

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_entrainment



In all honesty, it doesn't matter if they work as a result of a placebo effect, or if they actually carry a physical impact. As long as they work, or as long as people perceive them to work, they aren't hurting anything. People have reported individual, noticeable effects. Whether the behavior was really always there or not is easily debatable, but if people are paying attention to that behavior, I'd say binaurals and isochronics are a rousing success.

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## Specialis Sapientia

It's not placebo, it actually affects your brain in a way that also affects ones consciousness.

Studies has be done where it was used as sedative/pain killer, it was very successful. Thousands of experiments has be done that confirm it's impact on altered states of consciousness. It's not simple placebo.

Mario92, do you have time for the 3.87 Hz now, or can you tell me how I make it myself to isochronics (I only know how to make binaurals)

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## mindwanderer

Could someone clear this up for me? 

*tone pitch = 194.18 (root chakra frequency)* - What does tone pitch do? 
*isochronic frequency = 10hz (alpha waves)* - Is this the only frequency we worry about? 
*half cycle = 0.05 seconds*  - This number is 1/ desired isochronic frequency *2 

So far I've only been manipulating the isochronic frequency, but what about the tone pitch? Does that matter at all? Can it be anything? Or does it work in conjunction with the isochronic frequency? 

I'm working on a multistage MP3 in which several iso frequencies are used one after the other to slowly and gradually bring your brain to it's desired state so I'd like to make sure I'm doing it right. My main question is, what does the tone pitch effect and what does the amplitude effect?

edit: 

Also, I have first and second year Psych and there was a unit in both which focused on not only music's effect on the brain, but tones, frequencies, vibrations etc and they have a measurable effect on the brain that can be observed with various scientific instruments. That's not to say it isn't partially placebo... but it does has clear cut effects.

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## Clyde Machine

Well, from a musical/physics standpoint, a "tone pitch" is how high or low a sound is perceived. I hope that helped with something, though I don't think that's exactly what you were looking for in an answer.  :tongue2:

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## mindwanderer

> Well, from a musical/physics standpoint, a "tone pitch" is how high or low a sound is perceived. I hope that helped with something, though I don't think that's exactly what you were looking for in an answer.



Thanks for the reply! I knew that, but I just want to know what effect it has as far as isochronic tones. Like what different it makes in the brain when using iso tones. 
Thanks though!

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## Maria92

> Mario92, do you have time for the 3.87 Hz now, or can you tell me how I make it myself to isochronics (I only know how to make binaurals)



Um...yeah, the tut I keep posting ought to guide you through it. It shows you how to make isochronics. The only thing it doesn't explain well is how to adjust the frequency, which goes in the first "length" box when generating the tone, and is equal to 1/(2 x desired frequency). In all honesty, going with anything extremely specific is of no more benefit than going with something general and easy to work with. You'll get the same exact effects at a 4 or 5 or 6 hertz tone. The theta range, associated with lucid dreaming, is a general area. there is no established magic number that will work no matter what. 





> *tone pitch = 194.18 (root chakra frequency)* - What does tone pitch do?



Tone pitch matters about as much as a loogi in a river. That's just what the beat sounds like. 100 is about as low as you want to go. It's a much lower sound. I find it blends in better with the bass of some songs. Pretty much, it's whatever sounds comfortable to you.  :smiley: 





> *isochronic frequency = 10hz (alpha waves)* - Is this the only frequency we worry about?



The desired frequency is the theta stage, which is between 4 and 7 hertz. Brain wave entrainment is an important concept, though. Using a gradual stepping motion from a resting frequency of 15 to 20 hertz and moving down to 4 to 7 is best. 




> *half cycle = 0.05 seconds*  - This number is 1/ desired isochronic frequency *2



that's how you reach the frequency of your tone. That value is what goes in the length box of the tone and the silence. The tone and silence together complete a full cycle. 





> So far I've only been manipulating the isochronic frequency, but what about the tone pitch? Does that matter at all? Can it be anything? Or does it work in conjunction with the isochronic frequency?



Doesn't matter at all. I like a  lower frequency because it's easier to listen to, but that's just me. 





> I'm working on a multistage MP3 in which several iso frequencies are used one after the other to slowly and gradually bring your brain to it's desired state so I'd like to make sure I'm doing it right. My main question is, what does the tone pitch effect and what does the amplitude effect?



Tone pitch changes the sound of the note, and amplitude affects its volume. I'd just recommend keeping a similar pitch and amplitude throughout. 





> Also, I have first and second year Psych and there was a unit in both which focused on not only music's effect on the brain, but tones, frequencies, vibrations etc and they have a measurable effect on the brain that can be observed with various scientific instruments. That's not to say it isn't partially placebo... but it does has clear cut effects.



Thank you.  :smiley:

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## mindwanderer

Hey! Thanks for the reply! And I just listened to my first track! 

It's 12 minutes long and starts at around 15 hz, then to about 17, then 12, then 10, then a huge drop to around 2 for about 3 minutes, which then goes back up to around 5 (optimal dreaming range) and I gotta tell you... it's a trippy experience. 

It's mid day where I am now, and I'm not sleepy at all... but I decided to listen anyways. I just reclined in my computer chair, turned it on, and closed my eyes. And for the last half of the track I was getting intense fast moving hypnogagic imagery! It was crazy! I tryed to control it and pull myself into a lucid, but I couldn't. It was just crazy colourful images shooting and sliding all around... like I was seeing it all past my eyelids! 

Does anyone know how to get tracks online? Because I'd like to share this!

edit:

Also, would it be best to listen to this right before bed? Or during WBTB? Or both? I'm going to try it for sure tonight...

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## Maria92

http://www.rapidshare.com/
http://www.mediafire.com/

 ::D: 

You could probably listen to them any time...the goal is to be in the lucid dreaming mindset before actually going to sleep.

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## mindwanderer

Okay. I'm uploading two onto mediafire. One is called Sine Wave Tone LD2, which was my first one (practice one, used tutorial) and it's in around 5 hz and it's a single tone and frequency the whole way through. The other one, however, is LDinductionwv which is a multistage multi frequency track. One is in mp3 and the other is in wav format. Let me know how LDinductionwv works though, because like I said... when I listened to it I was fully awake, but about half way through there was hypnogagic imagery like crazy. It normally takes me a long time to get to hypnogagic imagery, and that's when I'm tired and half asleep. But this track got me there in about 4 or 5 minutes from a fully alert and awake state... so hopefully it works with everyone else too! 

Please post your impressions of the tracks once they're uploaded, which will be in about 20 minutes... and I'll post a link.

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## mindwanderer

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ymelju...e Tone LD2.mp3 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zhzhie...nductionwv.wav

The last of the two is probably most effective since the first one is a single tone and frequency the whole way through, while the second has the same tone but several frequencies used to gradually move your brain into the desired frequency... which in the case of this track is just below 6 hz. 

LDinductionwv starts off in 'resting' frequency, which then rises slightly to simulate brain activity during the first few stages of sleep. Shortly after it drops significantly to bring relaxation, and from there goes down a little more to the point where it is just above dreaming stage. After this point it makes a large drop to only 2 hz... which is well below the frequency of dreaming rem sleep. This major drop is quite a difference from the gradual drops before it, and this is so that the brain overcompensates in an attempt to rapidly sync with the frequency. It then rises to 5 hz which is generally the hz needed for rem sleep. 

This is my first trial of this track (other than trying myself), and if at all possible I'd like detailed feedback on your experiences with it. Try to be specific and post what your feelings where during the various frequencies and how it changed over time. This way I can tweak the length of the various frequencies for optimal efficiency. I have a feeling the second last stage, 2 hz, could be extended a bit making it slightly more effective. I'll keep messing around making several tracks, which I'll post in this thread. Then anyone who uses them could post which tracks worked best for what they wanted, and I can take the best of those tracks and figured out the best possible combination of frequencies, tones, and lengths. 

Thanks. 
Mindwanderer.

edit: Also I recommend doing what I did, that is listening to it while awake with your eyes closed and see what kind of hypnogagic imagery you get, if any. For me, I was fully aware and awake but after about 4 to 5 minutes of listening with my eyes closed in my computer chair hypnogagic imagery came rolling in... more intense then I've seen before... possibly because I was awake and aware as opposed to being in bed half asleep.

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## Univorsus

Hi mindwanderer!

Although English is not my native language, soon I'll try to post my reactions to your 2nd track. 

Are you experimenting with other tracks? If so, it would be nice if you could share them  :smiley: 

Thank you!

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