# Sleep and Dreams > Research >  >  Shared Lucids

## Mickeys_Elbow

Ok... I know to a lot of you shared dreams sound like complete bullshit, and I know that some of you also claim to have had them. I am one that likes to believe the ones that have had them, since they have actually had the experiences (and the ones opposed have not). I personally have never had one.

To get to the point though, assuming shared dreams are possible, there should be the ability to have a shared lucid. If two people are experiencing the same dream simultaneously, or if someone is causing another person to dream of a specific thing, then there should be the possibility of both participants to be lucid during the dream.

I think this could be an extreme breakthrough as far as dreaming goes! The way we would need to start this experiment is to get several people together that have either had or induced shared dreams in the past. Then the normal procedures to induce lucids should be applicable to shared dreams (I'm guessing here since personally I havn't knowingly had one) and a shared lucid will either be created or not.

Shared lucids would be amazing!

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## Placebo

Actually I already want to do this, but my wife (who I shared a dream with) isn't particularly focussed when it comes to things like this.
She has to be 'in the zone'

Anyway, in our shared dream, she was lucid, but I wasnt.
So all it needed was for her to *make* me lucid. Slap me and tell me I'm dreaming. Or summon a demon or something..
Unfortunately she didn't do that

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## Howie

If shared dreaming is infact possible there would almost have to have a third party relay the dream and have the two participants in two differant locations. This would in fact prove this to be true.

I am not saying you are a lier Placebo (I hope you would already know this   :smiley:  In fact I too have tried to get my wife to meet me at a certain location in a dream in order to have a shared dream. So I obviously don't disscount this as a possibilty. 
But for the sake of proof don't you feel that would be the only way to truely prove shared dreaming?

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## Mickeys_Elbow

That's exactly why this needs to become an actual study instead of just something people talk about. If we study it then we can proove or disproove it.

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by Mickeys_Elbow_
> *That's exactly why this needs to become an actual study instead of just something people talk about. If we study it then we can proove or disproove it.*



How do you suggest we begin?

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## Mickeys_Elbow

I'd suggest that a group of people who are proficient at lucid dreaming collaborate on this (I plan to once I improove) and attempt to share dreams nightly. Like you said there would need to be a third party to recieve the findings of the two (or more) participants and compare their results. I'm not sure if distance is a factor or not because so little is known about sharing, so there would need to be close groups and seperated groups. Couples would be the key to the close groups but they couldn't talk to eachother upon waking, they might even need to sleep in seperate rooms. Anyone could be in a seperate group.

My hypothesis is that the seperate groups could be as large as the number of people who volunteer for them. The close groups are the ones that the most ground will be broken in because there are less factors involved and the participants will know eachother more intimately (i.e. close friends, relatives, lovers etc.).

I think it would be difficult to hone in on eachother if you don't know the person very well and are on different sides of the globe, but then again little is known about this and distance may not be a factor at all. Experimentation will be the key to finding new questions to be answered and new answers to the questions we have. All that's really needed is volunteers and a set regime on where and how to "meet" eachother, which I don't have a clue where to start on that path since there are no maps in dream world.

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## Placebo

*Howwie, regarding the 3rd party, etc*
I agree with you. I was trying to be careful to not allow her version to affect mine (by first recalling my version silently before she continued recalling hers)
But to research it properly, we need third parties, etc.
My example wasn't controlled enough at all

Perhaps just writing down the journals as private entries online, and after both are up, turning them public for all to see?

*About my wife and me participating:*

Like I've mentioned before, my wife isn't really... focussed... when it comes to stuff like this.
She has to be 'in the zone', 'zenlike' and all that stuff

I've been trying to get her to repeat what she did since that day, and she's only once been like that. And I wasn't dreaming  ::cry:: 

So.. while the concept is sound, it's gonna be hard to do in practice

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by Placebo_
> *
> Perhaps just writing down the journals as private entries online, and after both are up, turning them public for all to see?
> 
> About my wife and me participating:
> 
> Like I've mentioned before, my wife isn't really... focussed... when it comes to stuff like this.
> She has to be 'in the zone', 'zenlike' and all that stuff
> I've been trying to get her to repeat what she did since that day, and she's only once been like that. And I wasn't dreaming 
> ...



I think you have a good idea. Afterall we have a trust factor  hear. And what would someone have to gain by lieing anyway.

And as far as the wife thing Placebo, as you would put it, what you said was verbatim to my situation. So if you figure out somthing to motivate her, tell me  :Exclaim:

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## Mickeys_Elbow

Once my lucid dreaming improoves I'd like to start this experiment and find as many volunteers as I can. If anyone else wants to go ahead and take off with this that'd be great; I'd just really like to be involved as a guinea pig as well so I really need to get better at this before hand.  ::wink::

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## Howie

Thought we could combine efforts here on this topic !!!

By Docthory
shared dreaming  


Also an interesting theory on the possibilties and plausablities of shared dreaming.
E=DV2

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## Peregrinus

If you do this experiment with the resources you have now, a lot of it would rely on trust, making it scientifically unsound, but probably quite interesting to the people on the board.  Whoever is in charge of the experiment would have to know and/or interview possible subjects to at least get a feel for their trustworthiness.  If possible, you want skeptical people-- not true believers and not firm doubters, because members of either of those groups would be more likely to, um, "edit" their results.  And of course they should be adept and fairly consistent lucid dreamers with excellent recall (2-3 dreams per night average, if possible).  Also, they should be within one or two time-zones of each other to ensure that their REM cycles overlap somewhat.

As far as the actual experiment goes, I'd recommend that you have each participant set up a journal on the DV forums, one that is private and uneditable (new entries can be added, but old ones can't be changed or removed).  You'd need at least two and preferably three people to be the third parties who each day will review the entries of the participants for similarities.  (Having more than one reviewer helps neutralize personal biases)  The subjects should record in each entry whether the dream was lucid or non-lucid, and it should be stressed that any interaction with another subject during the dream should be described as accurately and in as much detail as possible so that significant comparisons can be made.  For example, if subject A says that subject B was in their dream and they had a series of interactions, X, but subject B does not report subject A being anywhere in his or her dream, then that particular dream would test negative as a shared dream.  However, if for some reason, subject B remembered only vaguely the appearance of subject A in his or her dream but decided it was too insignificant to report, that dream might have been a false negative.  By recording whether each dream is lucid or non-lucid, during the final analysis phase of the experiment, you can test whether the rate of shared dreaming (if one turns out to exist) varies between lucid and non-lucid dreams.  

After a week, you should reevaluate the experiment and determine whether youre getting enough recorded dreams to warrant continuing the experiment.  If you are, you should probably continue the experiment until the total run-time is 3-4 weeks to ensure a good sample (of course, this depends on how many dreams you're getting per night).  Your control group could be a random sample (of equal size as your experimental group to avoid having to use too many statistics during your analysis) of existing DJs from the forum.  Obviously, youd need the express permission of the owners of those journals to use their dreams as part of your experiment, but I doubt itd be too hard to find such people.   

The experiment wouldnt be too inconvenient for the experiments participants, either, because all theyd be doing is writing down their dreams in a DJ, which is encouraged practice anyway, and perhaps reaffirming their intention to share dreams or using some other technique as they fall asleep.

The trust aspect comes in b/c youd have to trust the participants not to communicate their dreams with each other via email, IM, etc. (even after you have them electronically sign a form promising as much).  Thats where the scientific controls break down and why this experiment isnt very rigorous, but if you get enough trustworthy participants, it could still be quite interesting.

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## Howie

Very well put Peregrinus   :Exclaim:   :Exclaim:  

So who is up for this   :Question:  
I myself average maybe four Lucids per month. If I am focused six to seven. I somtimes can have some very active streaks and other times dry spell. I don't think I am consistant enough to be one of the participants.

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## Mickeys_Elbow

I'm definately up for it, though I also am not consistant enough to be a participant. I would gladly be a reviewer though. Thanks Peregrinus, you so succinctly stated a way for this to happen that sounds like it will work great.

My recall is growing quickly and I've had 2 lucids in the past week I think(give or take a day), so hopefully soon I may be able to be a participant!

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## Placebo

I'm not consistent enough right now, although perhaps I was a while back. I had 2 weeks of an average of 1 a night.
The trouble is, it was only an average. I'd have 4, then nothing for 3 days, and so on...

Here's a thought, I used self hypnosis to get that right. It might be worth a shot for some of you guys  :wink2: 

I've been pretty lax about LDing lately... perhaps I should make the effort to get back into it, for this   ::?:

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## Peregrinus

Ive come up with a small addendum to the experimental design.  If we cant come up with at least 10 people with both excellent recall and consistent lucid  dreams, we could have 5 people with excellent recall and 5 people with good recall and consistent lucid dreams.  The experiment would then be done with a sender/receiver set-up.  The 5 consistent LDers would act as senders, who, upon becoming lucid, would attempt to join the dreams of the receivers, namely those 5 people with excellent recall.  

I think the ideal, if the experiment is done this way, is to have each sender assigned two receivers, and thus each receiver would also have two senders.  The receivers would not be told who their 2 assigned senders are to minimize the placebo effect, for lack of a better term.  During this experiment, there will likely be non-shared dreams where the participants dream _of_ each other simply because thats on their minds and has filtered down into their subconscious as a desire.  However, if the receivers do not know who is trying to join them in dreams, they wont have a particular person to focus on, so my hypothesis is that they will be less likely to have non-shared dreams about the other participants.

So what do you think?  Better or worse than the original plan?  I like this one more simply because it places less stringent requirements on who can participate (we wont need über-dreamers), and it is more organized.  Instead of telling the participants, Okay, here are the other X-many people participating in this experiment.  Try to crash their solo dream parties, we give them focus, a specific goal which I think the mind will have an easier time interpreting and achieving.  Of course, thats speculation b/c Im far from a dream expert, but it seems consistent with other things Ive heard and experienced. 

There seems to be a decent amount of interest in this, so we might want to start a sign-up sheet (either in this forum or perhaps a sticky in General Discussion if thats allowed) where people can list their consistency with lucid dreaming and their average dream recall per night.  That way we can see what we have to work with and revise the plan if need be.

Also, out of curiosity, what do you all consider to be average and excellent consistency with lucid dreaming and dream recall?  I was hoping for people who have at least 3 LDs per week as the senders and people who remember 5-7 dreams per night as the receivers.  Is that doable or unreasonable and hoping for too much?

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## Mickeys_Elbow

Sounds very doable to me. My recall has been skyrocketing lately so maybe I could be signed up as a reciever, though I'll have to see if it remains consistant. The sticky in the gen. discussion is a good idea to get volunteers because only a small fraction of the people on this site frequent the research team forum. As far as what I consider good recall, on a night where I can get a full nights sleep using the MILD technique I have around 3-5 dream periods per night. So I would consider anything 5 or above per night excellent recall. I feel pretty confident in my recall ability so far and usually remember quite a few details (just go check out my journal), so if I keep working at it I can only improove. This experiment may be pretty close to getting off of the ground  ::D:  !

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## Placebo

The only trouble I see here, is that I feel that shared dreaming isn't a 'send/receive' thing... its a 2 way connection where both parties are just as important.
Of course, it doesn't necessarily require both parties to be lucid, so in that way people like Mickeys_Elbow should do well

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## Michaelx

if you were to believe this possible(which i also do) u would need to agree that telepathy is to some degree real also....that being said...is there a limited DISTANCE to which ones mind could reach another? i believe its possible for 2 ppl in the same room to share a dream but VERY VERY HIGHLY unlikely that u can share one with someone half way around the world, or even a few hundred miles away...if you could the dream world may very possibly be as crowded with real ppl as the real world...
then there is the chain idea...but that would require alot of people...making "pitstops" or "dream boosters" with other people like a chain....dividing the distance into smaller segments...but thats just my thought for the day on this =) maybe i'll elaborate more later if anyone responds lol.

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## Peregrinus

> _Originally posted by Placebo_
> *The only trouble I see here, is that I feel that shared dreaming isn't a 'send/receive' thing... its a 2 way connection where both parties are just as important.
> Of course, it doesn't necessarily require both parties to be lucid, so in that way people like Mickeys_Elbow should do well*



So you think the personal relationship between the participants is important?  If it's a two way connection, does one person still initiate?  If so, I think this could still work.  If both people have to somehow be thinking about it at the same time to simultaneously form some sort of \"meet half-way\" connection, I can't see how shared dreaming could happen often enough to be testable.  Honestly, I'm skeptical about these sorts of things, and when a phenomenon goes from being something easy and natural to something that's finicky and hard to pin down as soon as it comes under scrutiny, that skepticism starts to tilt toward doubt.  I'm not in any way implying that I think you're being deceptive about your experiences, so I hope you don't take my comments the wrong way.  I've probably just misunderstood what you're saying about how to initiate it.





> _Originally posted by Michael_
> *if you were to believe this possible(which i also do) u would need to agree that telepathy is to some degree real also....that being said...is there a limited DISTANCE to which ones mind could reach another? i believe its possible for 2 ppl in the same room to share a dream but VERY VERY HIGHLY unlikely that u can share one with someone half way around the world, or even a few hundred miles away...if you could the dream world may very possibly be as crowded with real ppl as the real world...
> then there is the chain idea...but that would require alot of people...making \"pitstops\" or \"dream boosters\" with other people like a chain....dividing the distance into smaller segments...but thats just my thought for the day on this =) maybe i'll elaborate more later if anyone responds lol.*



I don't know about a distance limit.  From the claims I've read, many people seem to think it can be done over long distances.  I've got no reason to believe that the claims of people who say it can only be done between two people in close proximity are any more or less veritable than the claims of people who say it can be done half way around the world.

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by Peregrinus_
> *I don't know about a distance limit. From the claims I've read, many people seem to think it can be done over long distances. I've got no reason to believe that the claims of people who say it can only be done between two people in close proximity are any more or less veritable than the claims of people who say it can be done half way around the world.*



I agree with you *Peregrinus.* If this does infact work, whatever information through whatever process that this information  is transferred would seemingly be viable via next door or another state.
If it was processed at a close range maybe esp, telekinesis or mind reading might be part of the equation. If that is possible as well.


Basically it comes down to if there is some type of astral plain which our concious minds could use as a way to comunicate on a level we do not understand.
And I think Lucidity would be a factor. Otherwise the other participant would not be concious of the fact that the entire procedure is going on.
I guess it could effect their normal dream. So many loop wholes.   :tongue2:

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## Placebo

> _Originally posted by Peregrinus+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Peregrinus)</div>
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I feel that it the ' half-way meeting point' (if I can call it that) is not necessarily 50/50 - it can be weighted one or the other way.
But chances are greatly increased if both parties are able to do their bit, and meet in the middle somewhere.
This is why a personal relationship helps *a lot*! ... but is not necessarily a prerequisite
As you said, the moment it bcomes finicky and hard to pin down, it becomes doubtful. It already is a controversial subject, and expecting one party to do all the work is going to make it even more finicky.

In the experience I had personally, my wife initiated it primarily. But I feel that it wasn't a 'one-way street' - I was helping the experience along due to our closeness and understanding of each other's mind (ie. how the other thinks)

You have to keep in mind that a dream is a complete scene of 3D complexity, generated from our fleeting thoughts and beliefs.
To merge two dreams would imply that both parties' thoughts and beliefs have to COMPROMISE on the dream content.
(or be identical, which seems impossible)
Neither party is going to 'get their own way' 100%, because it's one dream made from 2 minds.

Just my thoughts

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## Howie

Ok. To try and get the ball rolling.

Because Lucidty is not always a sure thing for anybody then you add another person to the mix. This makes it more difficult.
So I suspect time will be an issue in this experiement. But time we have.

We need someone to act as the third party.
Who would like to do this? 

We don't know what factors are important for shared dreaming.
The possibilities include what?   _Just brain storming here_. Add to the mix if anyone thinks of another factor.

I don't think we have twins in the forum?
boyfriend/girlfriend
husband/wife
friends over the forum
Same interests
same sleeping patterns*
Date of birth   ::?:  
boy/boy
girl/girl
girl/boy

Having said all that. If we can find two participants and a third party to relay the dreams.
We need to discuss wether techniques are important.
_More brain stroming._
Do both individuals follow the same methods for becoming lucid?
Opon becoming lucid;
both have a predetermined set of proceedueres
a place to meet?
???????????

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by Placebo_
> *You have to keep in mind that a dream is a complete scene of 3D complexity, generated from our fleeting thoughts and beliefs.
> To merge two dreams would imply that both parties' thoughts and beliefs have to COMPROMISE on the dream content.
> (or be identical, which seems impossible)
> Neither party is going to 'get their own way' 100%, because it's one dream made from 2 minds.*



What are the possibilties that dream sharing exists on a plane much like astral projection.
Rather than an actual dream.

This would allow for the two individuals to simotaniously exist without the compromise on a dream scene.

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## Placebo

> _Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>
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Sure, but I see no reason to believe that  :smiley:

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by placebo_
> *Sure, but I see no reason to believe that*



What gives us reason to believe any of it at this point?   :smiley:

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## nina

Ok guys, I haven't checked out this thread at all until now and I've only just skimmed through it...but it definitely sounds like something I would want to be a part of. I am pretty good at inducing lucid dreams pretty much whenever I nap. So I won't be of any use until I go back to school and stop working full time (March 19). B/c then I can nap like everyday and have WILDs...etc. But I don't know if others can get lucid while napping. Maybe I should be paired up with someone around the globe who would be sleeping at night while I was napping during the day? I dunno. I also tend to get lucids in the morning (between 6am-10am). But this is something I really think I can do. So just lemme know, b/c I haven't been involved thus far.  :wink2:

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## Placebo

> _Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>
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Because some of us have experienced it  :smiley:

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## Peregrinus

[quote]Because Lucidty is not always a sure thing for anybody then you add another person to the mix. This makes it more difficult.
So I suspect time will be an issue in this experiement. But time we have.
Is lucidity a requirement?  It would probably be easier if at least one person were lucid and could "transport" to his/her partner's dream, but wouldn't it be possible (if shared dreaming is possible at all) for both people to have shared non-lucid dreams?   

[quote]
We need someone to act as the third party.
Who would like to do this? 

What would be the role of this third party? 

[quote]We don't know what factors are important for shared dreaming.
The possibilities include what?   _Just brain storming here_. Add to the mix if anyone thinks of another factor.

I don't think we have twins in the forum?
boyfriend/girlfriend
husband/wife
friends over the forum
Same interests
same sleeping patterns*
Date of birth   ::?:  
boy/boy
girl/girl
girl/boy

Having said all that. If we can find two participants and a third party to relay the dreams.
We need to discuss wether techniques are important.
_More brain stroming._
Do both individuals follow the same methods for becoming lucid?
Opon becoming lucid;
both have a predetermined set of proceedueres
a place to meet?
???????????

It'd be great to have data on all of these variables, but for the results to be significant, we'd need a _lot_ of volunteers.  I haven't seen Mickeys_Elbow around, so who's going to run this beast?  (And rest assured, if it goes as well as it could, it will become a beast-- like a cute little floppy-eared puppy that grows up to be a 120lb mastiff.)

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by Placebo_
> *Because some of us have experienced it*



Do you have a post about this placebo? I would be *very* interested to here about it.

Peregrinus. You have a lot of valid questions. I hate to be a stick in the mud but I think we may have to regress a little to go foward.
I will explain later.

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## Howie

[quote]Because Lucidty is not always a sure thing for anybody then you add another person to the mix. This makes it more difficult.
So I suspect time will be an issue in this experiement. But time we have.

[quote]Is lucidity a requirement?  It would probably be easier if at least one person were lucid and could \"transport\" to his/her partner's dream, but wouldn't it be possible (if shared dreaming is possible at all) for both people to have shared non-lucid dreams? [/color]

That is a good question. And to me this is where I had to take a step back and think what placebo said about sharing dream space. Then what you said about \"Transport\".
This all to me points towards dream sharing as being more of an astral projection thing. If you are sharing a dream with someone, your conscious and theirs had to get from one location to another via some form of tranportation. Right? So I am not immplying dream sharing is not dream sharing. I just think that it falls somewhere in the realm of astral projection or distant viewing.
Wich in that case we might have to rethink a few things.





> What would be the role of this third party?



No matter how we slice it a trust faactor we all agreed will have to play a role in this expierement. The third party, let us say it is you Peregrinus. 
Subject *A* communicates with subject *B*, the two dream sharing participants. 
They only make contact through discussion of how they will go about the whole proceedure. 
The proceedure =  :tongue2:   not sure yet.
Then any dream activity would be PMed to you only. You then keep those records. Both particpants and you are all aware of the proceedure. In the event both A & B have a dream that match information  then you relay the info. And whaalaa dream sharing exists. 
Sounds easy. J/K !





> It'd be great to have data on all of these variables, but for the results to be significant, we'd need a _lot_ of volunteers.  I haven't seen Mickeys_Elbow around, so who's going to run this beast?  (And rest assured, if it goes as well as it could, it will become a beast-- like a cute little floppy-eared puppy that grows up to be a 120lb mastiff.)



I agree. And all those factors I spewed out are unlikley. So I guess we work with who we have. Most likely two forum members -hopefully sleep compatible.

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## Peregrinus

I dont know about the whole astral projection thing.  It seems to me that AP, OBE, and whatever the other acronyms are, are more likely the minds way of interpreting an experience rather than some ethereal body-look-a-like physically separating from the body.  If shared dreaming exists, my hypothesis as to a mechanism would be some sort of telepathic connection.  Have you ever played a video game where you link up with other players such that you and they are inhabiting and interacting in the same environment?  In that, your connections are routed through a central server which sorts out the details of the environment, but shared dreaming could conceivably operate on a similar principle.  The two dreamers could have some sort of nonlocal information transfer connection.  In that case, I would suspect the shared dreams to be similar but possess some different elements, since the two minds would probably not be perfect at incorporating all of the other persons dream elements into his/her dream.  Thats actually a way to distinguish between your hypothesis and mine.  If youre right, the two dreamers should experience the same external place to which they physically (well, sorta) transport, such that all dream elements should be the same.  

Well, well see.  I havent heard from enough people claiming shared dreams to suspect that its much more than a coincidence.  Of course, any good skeptic would say the same thing, so I dont want people to take this as my statement that I absolutely dont believe in the possibility.  If that were the case, I wouldnt be curious enough to participate in this experiment in the first place.  I just want to make my position (and therefore any biases I might have) clear from the outset.

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## Mickeys_Elbow

I'd be willing to act as 3rd party for this "little puppy" and keep records of all the info. Though I think more than one person would be best for this job, with both of them doing the exact same thing getting the same info etc. One person's opinion of what is similar enough to consider it as shared could be much different than anothers. An extra person or two would help to rule out biases and even mistakes (if one person doesn't notice the connection etc.)

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## Placebo

> _Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>
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I DID have a post about it, but it was posted long after I experienced it
I tried to look for the post, and... can't find it   :Mad:  

I don't think it was posted during the downtime we had, and our little vacation, so I can't figure out where it went  :Sad: 
How annoying. I posted in a fair amount of detail

I'll keep looking, but basically my wife woke up in the early hours while I was dreaming, and felt 'zenlike' (as she put it)
So she decided to kind of meditate into my dreams. Essentially what she did was a WILD, with the intention to enter my dream
The next morning the 2 experiences were about 90% similar. It involved sexual favours and some unusual behaviour from myself that would not normally have happened in my dreams

I was careful to hear her experience without lacing it with prompts from my own (to prevent altering her memories)
However, it wasn't optimal - we should have written it down separately

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## Howie

Thanks for responding [edit -no green]Placebo! So to you it is a known. not a belief. 
See I don't know where the hell i am, a plane, a bed   :tongue2:  
This brings a lot of insight to this.
And of coarse Peregrinus has brought up many points to which came from a mind set that I could have not otherwise seen.
Which is perfect for Research.
I too personally believe that OBE's and astral projection falls in some realm of the dream world. Where I don't know. I understand what you are saying.




> _Originally posted by Peregrinus_
> *Shared dreaming could conceivably operate on a similar principle. The two dreamers could have some sort of nonlocal information transfer connection*



Your position Peregrinus, unbiased, makes you the perfect third person candidate. If you believe that is even necissary

So where do we go from here?

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## Placebo

Ahem... 'Placebo'. Not 'Palcebo in green'  ::D: 





> _Originally posted by Howetzer_
> *So to you it is a known. not a belief.*



I wouldn't say that. It was just uncanny.
Perhaps it was an amazing coincidence  :tongue2: 

Either way, my experience is both anecdotal and subjective. Useful to me, but not to others  :smiley: 
It does leave me believing it has a high chance of being possible outside of coincidence

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## Howie

Sorry Placebo (with no green)

So where does this leave us. The beginning.
Again, where should we go from here?

I have had good success with WILDs latlely. If it keeps up, I am willing to be one of the two participants.
I have actually felt like I am in some control -what a concept  :smiley:  

From Howetzer in everything green.  ::wink::

----------


## Howie

Sorry Placebo (with no green)

So where does this leave us? 
Again, where should we go from here?

I have had good success with WILDs latlely. If it keeps up, I am willing to be one of the two participants.
I have actually felt like I am in some control -what a concept  :smiley:  

From Howetzer in everything green.  ::wink::

----------


## Placebo

> _Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Sorry Placebo (with no green)[/b]
> 			
> 		
> ...



Dunno if I can help - I'm over-utilised  :tongue2: 
Besides, my lucid dreams are few and far between lately

How about collecting together who can help, their abilities, etc
And then try to categorise who can work with who, and how we can do it

----------


## Mickeys_Elbow

We should post a recruitment topic in another forum (general, lounge, senseless, all 3?) to search for volunteers with a link to this topic. We would probably find more attention that way.

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Mickeys_Elbow_
> *We should post a recruitment topic in another forum (general, lounge, senseless, all 3?) to search for volunteers with a link to this topic. We would probably find more attention that way.*



That is agood idea. Much broader of a range of people.
how should we word it?
And  what should we ask?

----------


## Mickeys_Elbow

How about**:

*   "New research experiment in dream views labs (volunteers needed)"*

_The research team is searching for volunteers to take part in a shared dreaming experiment. We are looking for volunteer dreamers of all types lucid and non-lucid alike to attempt to induce shared dreaming. Follow this thread if you want to take part. (link)_

If someone isn't on the research team, can they follow a link to the forum?

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Mickeys_Elbow_
> *How about:
> 
>    \"New research experiment in dream views labs (volunteers needed)\"
> 
> The research team is searching for volunteers to take part in a shared dreaming experiment. We are looking for volunteer dreamers of all types lucid and non-lucid alike to attempt to induce shared dreaming. Follow this thread if you want to take part. (link)
> 
> If someone isn't on the research team, can they follow a link to the forum?*



Yes, as far as I know they can.

That looks good to me!

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				<!--QuoteBegin-Mickeys_Elbow
> 			
> 		
> ...



*
Seeker had mentioned that he may place an announcment across the board for us!*

----------


## Peregrinus

Sorry for the extended absense.  My school's internet server went down, and this being Spring Break, they took their sweet time getting it back up.  As far as being a reviewer/3rd party for this experiment, it would really depend on how many participants there are.  I'm pretty swamped with work until the beginning of May, and in the short term, have three papers to write in the next 6 days, so I'm not up for any big time obligations right now.  However, I think Mickeys_Elbow is right-- we should have more than one reviewer.  Also, there should be some quantitative measure of dream similarity.  If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to work out some sort of formula and post it.

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Peregrinus_
> *Sorry for the extended absense.  My school's internet server went down, and this being Spring Break, they took their sweet time getting it back up.  As far as being a reviewer/3rd party for this experiment, it would really depend on how many participants there are.  I'm pretty swamped with work until the beginning of May, and in the short term, have three papers to write in the next 6 days, so I'm not up for any big time obligations right now.  However, I think Mickeys_Elbow is right-- we should have more than one reviewer.  Also, there should be some quantitative measure of dream similarity.  If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to work out some sort of formula and post it.*



Three papers in six days   ::o:   Is that all? LOL
Your suppose to enjoy spring break!!!

Don't sweat it. We have time. And hopefully some more participants will arise as well.

Lucidnina had previously shown interest in the project. Since her and I talk a lot we have tried to set up a similar sleep pattern since I have had success with inducing WILDS as of late. 
Who knows? We could use a more formulated format, that is for sure. 

Gothlark AKA,  LDguy claims he can lucid dream at will *and* has experienced dreamsharing more than a few times.
I suggested he join our experiment. He said that he likes to do his own. For some of his results have been inconclusive.   ::roll::  
If it is a bluff I am calling it!!!!  ::eh::   Put your LDs where your mouth is. 

I thought that was the reason we were doing this. To throw inconclusive out the window!

----------


## nina

I agree Howie!!

Come on Brett...join in the effort!

----------


## Gothlark

Yeah, I LD on will and have experimented with dream sharing numerous times.  None of it has been 100% conclusive but I can tell you some of them.  See, the reason I don't feel like participating is that it's March Break.  I was hoping to get a week away from Science class.  :tongue2:  But I suppose I should get on with the stories.

My first attempt was with a member from DV.  I attempted to make a portal to their dream and wound up at the mouth of a cave.  I didn't see them around so I went back to my dream and had like 6 more LDs.  That's probably my record.  But anyways, that morning they had a DJ entry about a cave dream.

Probably about five times it happened just because I wanted it to happen before going to bed.  I had a dream in a theatre, so did the target.  I had a dream in a dune buggy going across the desert where I was wounded, and the target dreampt that they were the driver.  One time it was a really loosely similar thing.  I had a dream where I was a fisher and where I was really angry outside of my school gym.  They dreampt of me chasing them around the gym and around town trying to kill them.  At one point a through a fish into a mailbox.  The funny thing is that I was fishing illegally in my dream and a mailbox is supposed to symbolize an illegal action (according to my mom's dream book.)  These are the only ones that come to mind, but I know that I did this several more times with the desert person.

Now, a few of them are slightly more interesting.  In one, I opened a portal to them and wound up at a café (we later compared details and it was virtually the same in detail) and she remembered me talking to her in this place asking if she wanted to come back to my dream world with me.  In another, the person not only remembered a canyon-desert place, but they also remembered the same storyline, people, and the part of the canyone we were hanging out in which had a unique arch of rock.  Finally, in a few, I went to one friend's dream and brought them into another friend's dream.  Those nights, the one friend dreampt about the other friend.  I couldn't confirm with the other friend because the fact is that I didn't know them.  They were my friend's friend.  Not mine.

Oh, I forgot about this one.  It's kind of weird.  I shared a dream with the person and when I told them about it, they had had that dream 6 months earlier.  The funny thing is that I was trying to change the flow of time.  :tongue2: 

I find it interesting how out of all these attempts, none of them had uninteresting results.  Also, all but one of them were with people I didn't know in person.  Heck, in one I didn't even know the person online.  I also find it interesting how we don't seem to have to be asleep at the same time.  Also, I seem to have dream control even though it's supposed to be their mind.  Hope I didn't leave anything out there.  ::D:

----------


## Howie

*Gothlark!!!! I really appreciate your response.*   :Exclaim:  
I hope my instigating was not overbaring. It was not meant to be.

I think this can provide us with some useful Ideas.

"Because you wanted it to."  Does this mean you just mearly thought about it? Or incubating by process of repition of your thoughts?

----------


## Gothlark

I'm glad to help.  ::D:  Your instigation is no big deal.  I haven't been in the best mood, but it was good practice for self-control.  :tongue2:  Yeah, I did some dream incubation with hypnosis so that my subconscious would do the work.  :smiley:

----------


## Tornado Joe

> Also, I seem to have dream control even though it's supposed to be their mind.[/b]



Ok, "Freddy" - this makes me want to sleep with a great big padlock around my head!    ::o:  

Stories like these get me all psyched up to LDing - I have *got* to develop this incredible skill!
 ::D:

----------


## Anima

Me and Gothlark have had shared dreams a couple of times.  Such as the arch.  My dream recall SUCKED.  In fact all i remember IS the part with the arch and two others.

Theon i do remember is when we met a constanine DC on a Train that was like a subway.  I dont remember to much of it either. (had 2 other dreams afterwards so its justified.)

----------


## Peregrinus

Here's the trial formula I came up with to quantify the degree to which two dreams are alike.


By using a ratio of elements shared over elements remembered, we're not penalizing those people who don't have great recall.  Someone who remembers 5 distinct dream elements, two of which coincide with their partner's dream will score the same as someone who remembers 10 elements and has 4 in common.  I struggled with whether to do it this way since having more total elements in common would be more significant, but basing the score only on the absolute numbered of shared elements would require us to find participants who have approximately the same recall for details.  

The shared foci term is a weighted multiplier.  For each dream, the reviewer will pick out the 3 most important foci (ex. setting, main DCs, major events, etc).  There will likely be some disagreement among reviewers as to what qualifies as a foci, but that's what the summation is for.  The point of the multiplier is that some dream elements are more important than others.  For example, if one person dreams of a tornado sweeping across a grassy plain to destroy a town, their partner also dreaming of a tornado or the destruction of a town would be more significant than the partner dreaming of a peaceful field or waving plain of grain.  

To get the total score, just add up the reviewers' scores.  Each person will have their own total score, so to get the pair's score, add the summed reviewers' scores.  Like I said, that's a rough trial formula.  If anyone can think of some changes that need to be made, new variables that need to be taken into account, etc., let me know and I'll try to fix them.  Also, I understand that separating and counting separate dream elements could be time consuming and tedious, so if anyone can think of an alternative, I'll be happy to consider it.

----------


## Aneas

Dream me up!

----------


## Peregrinus

The experimental aspect of this project seems to be progressing well, but I haven't seen much work on possible theoretical support.  It's all been sporadic anecdotes up to this point.  Does anyone know of _serious_ scientific work that's been done on shared dreaming/telepathy/whatever else might serve as a possible mechanism if shared dreaming exists?  There are a lot of hoakie "Teach yourself to be psychic in 10 days or your money back!" sites out there, but I'm wondering if there's any reputable research or organizations in this field.  The works from credible sources that I've come across have all been skeptical or disbelieving.

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Peregrinus_
> *The experimental aspect of this project seems to be progressing well, but I haven't seen much work on possible theoretical support.  It's all been sporadic anecdotes up to this point.  Does anyone know of serious scientific work that's been done on shared dreaming/telepathy/whatever else might serve as a possible mechanism if shared dreaming exists?  There are a lot of hoakie \"Teach yourself to be psychic in 10 days or your money back!\" sites out there, but I'm wondering if there's any reputable research or organizations in this field.  The works from credible sources that I've come across have all been skeptical or disbelieving.*



I am not sure what it was exactly called. The government felt that this topic held enough merit to warrent a study of it. (Ofcoarse they will spend money on anything.)
But I can't seem to locate anything directly on it.
It was something in the order of remote distant viewing, far distance viewing. I can't remember.
But if anyone knows what the hell I am talking about please be so knid as to point us in that direction.

I am not sure I follow your Formula Peregrinus. I think it was over my head. Maybe if I come back to it later and read it again.   :tongue2:

----------


## Gothlark

Howetzer, you're thinking of Remote Veiwing.  Interesting stuff.  They had a team of remote veiwers that they used and were successful in telling the government where lost parts were many times and once pointed them to the spot where a prisoner of war was.  Maybe more than once.  Or at least this is what I understand.

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Gothlark_
> *Howetzer, you're thinking of Remote Veiwing.  Interesting stuff.  They had a team of remote veiwers that they used and were successful in telling the government where lost parts were many times and once pointed them to the spot where a prisoner of war was.  Maybe more than once.  Or at least this is what I understand.*



Thanks Gothlark. I thougth I was close. I will try to dig up some info on that!

----------


## Gothlark

No problem, Jason.  I love to help.  :smiley:  I know there have been alot of shows that have aired about the project.  I'm surprised that it's public knowledge.  It must have caused quite a bit of contraversy unless it's a bunch of crap made up by TV shows.  :tongue2:  So I doubt you'll have too much trouble finding info so long as it actually happened.

----------


## Howie

Remote Viewing... outrageous scam or insighful wisdom?

Astral projection & the Government

----------


## Kaniaz

I just took my time to read this whole thread and get a feel of where things are. This is certainly very intresting, and I'm very much an "oustider" to this experiment right now. Still, a couple things I think should be reiterated to keep them fresh in your mind:





> _Originally posted by Peregrinus_
> *If possible, you want skeptical people-- not true believers and not firm doubters, because members of either of those groups would be more likely to, um, \"edit\" their results.*



People like this are at a premium however, so you'll probably - almost defintely - have to compromise this.

Have you considered using  a "password" to help verify the actual shared dream taking place/being real. For example, the 3rd party member overseeing the two paticular people tells one of the two people in the experiment (sender/receiver, doesn't matter) a word that they must try their best to communicate to the other person when they "establish contact" in these dreams. For this example, let's make it "cat". So, when this person meets the other one in the dream, they should scream it, make pictures of it, write it down, tell them it, etc.

The other person should try their best to see what word they are trying to communicate. Then, both parties wake up, and the person trying to get the word PMs the 3rd party with the word (perhaps words) that they think was trying to be said.

I think this would be pretty useful and clear-cut. If the person is using 100% of their power to get this word across in the dream, it should get across to the person. It shouldn't be too hard to get it across anyway.

So, our guy tells the 3rd party he thought the word was "cat". This would show that, that experiment at least, was pretty much a positive and such. You'd obviously repeat experiments like this to get some consistent results, however. And the 3rd party guy could take it from there. The password technique would obviously rely on honesty between the test subjects - ie: not revealing the word. I suppose you could try more than one technique over time, that would be intresting.

----------


## Gothlark

Yeah, I've considered the whole password thing and intend to try it.  I kind of forgot about it last night, though.  I forgot it before I ever went to bed, though.  I'll try to remember for tonight's LD, I guess.  I'll arrange it with some other forum members.  Chances are that lucidnina will be the target and Howetzer will be the third party.  Though I still have to arrange that.

----------


## Peregrinus

A password?!  Why didn't I think of that?  I got too busy trying to come up with a nifty little math formula and forgot about the utility of common sense, I guess.  But that's a great idea.  I think we could expand it if we used two different passwords and gave one to each of the participants.  That way, whichever person goes lucid (the "sender"?) will have a signal.  Damn, that's so simple  *wanders off grumbling*  couldn\'t even think of a simple thing like a password... rkfrk...karkifrk

----------


## Howie

That is a great idea. The exchange of something. 
But I would like to add that it seems evident to _most_ of us, maybe not you Gothlark, that numbers are a difficult medium to aquant yourself with while lucid.
If you believe this to be the best way then I am all for it. 
But if there was another "excange" that could be used other than a right brian mechanism, I feel it would be more easily ........uuuummm, transferable?   :tongue2:  
A name, color I don't know.


Sorry I had to go into Edit to see what you said, hahhah  ::laughhard::  




> couldn't even think of a simple thing like a password... rkfrk...karkifrk[/b]



Don't beat your self up Peregrinus! Your more articulate formula may come in handy at some point.

----------


## Gothlark

Yeah, I didn't mean a number password.  I meant something more abstract that you could easily understand in a dream, like an object.  Tell them what the object is and show it to them aswell.  Mind you, I _can_ do the numbers thing in dreams.   ::wink::

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Gothlark_
> *Yeah, I didn't mean a number password.  I meant something more abstract that you could easily understand in a dream, like an object.  Tell them what the object is and show it to them aswell.  Mind you, I can do the numbers thing in dreams. *



Having looked back over what you and Peregrinus posted I have know idea where I even got the idea in my head that you meant numbers. No one had said numbers!?   ::huh::   hence pass*WORD*.

 :tongue2:

----------


## Peregrinus

I was thinking something visual, as was suggested earlier, rather than simply a name or arbitrary word.  The animal idea was a good one.  And I, too, have had number dreams.  I had a lucid back in high school where I conquered a city block sized calculus assignment.  What was unnerving was that the calculus actually made sense.  Too bad I didn't just sit down and work out the problems-- it might have made doing them the next day a bit easier.

----------


## nina

I agree that is should be something visual rather than a world or number. Just my 2 cents.  :wink2:  I'm just a very visual person.

----------


## Gothlark

I think it should be expressed in several mediums as Kaniaz suggested.  I plan to try visual and audio expression of the word.  I think that should work rather well.

----------


## Syntex

Hey guys, I've had several shared lucid dreams as well. I can share those experiences if you like.

The password Idea is great, it will definantly get rid of uneccessary variables. My suggestion is to find something people don't commonly dream about, so you don't have two people dreaming about something just because it comes up often. 

Another thing is in my experience, shared dreams don't have to happen on the same day and are not distance bound. The people I shared dreams with were in Texas and I was California and one happened a few days apart.  Distance/Time should not be factors in this experiement, but just side notes. 

Another thing is, in my experience, I was the only one who needed to concentrate on finding the person, they just needed to be open to it and remember their dreams. In one dream, I actually caused the person to become lucid, by telling them it was a dream.

I think good password examples would be random crap like: a giant lamp, a webcam, a song, a certain color, or phrase.

-Daniel

----------


## Peregrinus

> _Originally posted by Syntex_
> *[color=darkblue]Another thing is in my experience, shared dreams don't have to happen on the same day and are not distance bound. The people I shared dreams with were in Texas and I was California and one happened a few days apart.  Distance/Time should not be factors in this experiement, but just side notes.*



Then how exactly is that \"sharing\" the dream?  Wouldn't that simply be dreaming about the same thing at different times?  Eventually, people are bound to dream about the same subject matter at different times, especially if those people share similar experiences in waking life (for example, family members, significant others).





> Another thing is, in my experience, I was the only one who needed to concentrate on finding the person, they just needed to be open to it and remember their dreams.[/b]



Yeah, as you can see, we've had a bit of discussion about whether the sender/receiver model is accurate.  It'll be interesting to see if this experiment actually turns out.





> I think good password examples would be random crap like: a giant lamp, a webcam, a song, a certain color, or phrase.[/b]



I think visuals are more easily remembered by most people than sounds, but it would be worth a try to see if certain sensory categories of pass"words" (i.e. visual, auditory, olfactory, etc) are more effective than others.

----------


## Syntex

[quote]



> [color=darkblue]Another thing is in my experience, shared dreams don't have to happen on the same day and are not distance bound. The people I shared dreams with were in Texas and I was California and one happened a few days apart.  Distance/Time should not be factors in this experiement, but just side notes.



Then how exactly is that "sharing" the dream?  Wouldn't that simply be dreaming about the same thing at different times?  Eventually, people are bound to dream about the same subject matter at different times, especially if those people share similar experiences in waking life (for example, family members, significant others).

Well these experiences we're unique enough to where several years would be needed for them to even come close to a similar experience just because of the passing of time. It was within a few days, which is still significant. I mean it wasn't just like he dreamed of an apple and so did I. We actually encountered each other, and everything was in alignment. In others that I simply dreamed of the same stuff, it was the same day. 

I'm just saying don't limit the crossreferencing of dreams to the same day only, you might find some more interesting connections. You can factor it in as making it less significant, but don't throw it away as impossible.

Also as for the password, yes go with something visual, I'm just saying, lets make it as random as possible and something that wouldn't normally occure in a dream. 

Have we got any volunteers yet? I'll be a "reciever" if you want.

-Daniel

----------


## Howie

Nice to have your participation Syntex.





> _Originally posted by Syntex_
> *Also as for the password, yes go with something visual, I'm just saying, lets make it as random as possible and something that wouldn't normally occure in a dream.
> *



Is the reason for this so to eliminate the possibilty of it being a coencedence?

Gothlark also mentions the fact that an occurance does not necessarily have to happen ot the same time.
This makes one wonder about time and how time and thought correspond with each other.

Are your thoughts or my thoughts floating around on some plain waiting to get intercepted by somenoe else.  :tongue2:  And if that is the case what are the probabilties of you or me being the correspondence?

----------


## Syntex

> _Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Nice to have your participation Syntex.
> 
> <!--QuoteBegin-Syntex
> ...



Yes, exactly, I want to eliminate the possibility of it being coencedence as much as possible.

Also as for time and thoughts and stuff... thats way too much for me to speculate on, I have no idea how its possible... but in my experience, it's seemed that way. My only explaination is that we dream the same dream (one of us on one night and the other a few nights later),because maybe we save that dream for later, recieve it, just experience it at a later date? 

Otherwise I'm confused, it's too much for me to think about, its like asking, " how does existance exist and what started it? and if it was always here, how is that possible???"

Also do we have anyone organizing all these ideas and setting up this experiment?

-Daniel

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Syntex_
> *Also as for time and thoughts and stuff... thats way too much for me to speculate on, I have no idea how its possible... but in my experience, it's seemed that way. My only explaination is that we dream the same dream (one of us on one night and the other a few nights later),because maybe we 
> 
> Otherwise I'm confused, it's too much for me to think about, its like asking, \" how does existance exist and what started it? and if it was always here, how is that possible???\"*




I here you. For me it is difficult because to try and understand something in my own head I need to put things in place that are seemingly missing. They may in fact not even be important. But who is to say. Either way it can fry your brain.





> *Also do we have anyone organizing all these ideas and setting up this experiment?*[/b]



 If you look Daniel back at the other 2000 posts  :tongue2:    you can see we have been trying, in between the arising questions, to put something in the works.
Lucidnina and I have gotten far enough to begin recorded entries of each others dreams and any significance in them. Both using each other as the "Target"
We would like to pair up more pepole as well.

----------


## Syntex

Ok let me know if theres anyone I can pair up with.

----------


## Howie

[quote]Ok let me know if theres anyone I can pair up with.
Well syntex  after looking over all 5 pages there are not as many people involved in this as I thought.

To date > *April 2nd *- Participants & posters.

Mickeys_Elbow.
Placebo
Aneas -Dream me up - I take that to mean \"I'm in\"?!
Syntex
Peregrinus
Howetzer
Lucidnina
Gothlark
Anima

People who have posted but did not show any inclination to participate. (But more than welcome ofcoarse)
Kaniaz
Tornadoe Joe
Michael

*Paired up*
Lucidnina ::target:: Howetzer ------> Both have recorded journals for this experiment.

*Suggestions.* _By me._

Anima posted;




> Me and Gothlark have had shared dreams a couple of times. Such as the arch. My dream recall SUCKED. In fact all i remember IS the part with the arch and two others.
> 
> Theon i do remember is when we met a constanine DC on a Train that was like a subway. I dont remember to much of it either. (had 2 other dreams afterwards so its justified.)



So the obvious candidate would be Gothlark if both were interesred.

Maybe you (Syntex) and Peregrinus or Mickeys_Elbow.
*
So anyone willing to pair up, speak up!*

----------


## Amethyst Star

I'll participate, but my involvement would be limited by two things: my inability to LD at will (though that is under question), and my currently low recall.  I'm going to be working to re-build my recall, though.  Just let me know if you need me for anything.

-Amé

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Amethyst Star_
> *I'll participate, but my involvement would be limited by two things: my inability to LD at will (though that is under question), and my currently low recall.  I'm going to be working to re-build my recall, though.  Just let me know if you need me for anything.
> 
> -Amé*



Thanks Amethyst Star   ::D:  
I don't know the "pecking order" when it comes to Lucid dreaming. I know Gothlark has great ability and by assumtion I would guess Anima too. Lucidnina does at times. Me, I do from time to time, I seem to be realy in a groove or really out of it.?!
The others I have mentioned I don't know there lucid dreaming abilities. I would like to. I think that might help when matching people together.

----------


## Gothlark

No offense to Anima but he isn't the greatest.  He might have one every couple weeks with partial control, but that's about it.  One person that I had the most of the shared dreams with were barely getting one LD a month and didn't fly for the first time until recently.  So, it can be a one-sided thing, I guess.  Mind you, they weren't lucid during it.

----------


## Demerzel

he means "pick me."

----------


## Mickeys_Elbow

I don't lucid dream very often, maybe once or twice a month now, but my recall is pretty good. I'll fill in wherever I'm needed.

----------


## Howie

Thought we could combine efforts here on this topic !!!

By Docthory
shared dreaming  


Also an interesting theory on the possibilties and plausablities of shared dreaming.
E=DV2

Increasing The Odds Of Meeting In A Lucid Dream P O L L

It is getting so mixed up I am getting confused. Somewhere Perigrinus had a good point about signing up people. I can't find it. [HELP]   :tongue2:

----------


## spairearhrke

I am very interested in this topic. My abilities are not as high as some I guess. I manage to get at least partially lucid or lucid for a short time about once or twice per week. But I can recall dreams quite well. Anyways I would be happy to help whereever I can.

----------


## 3rdCrow

I'm probably late on this subject...but if it's alright i would love to join this study. I have a pretty steady amount of LD's a month and i have excellent dream recall even after months passed. I've been looking for someone to finally start a study just like this. So i will contribute whatever i can.....  ::D:

----------


## Placebo

If you look at the dates of the posts, it looks like this idea died off...  ::?:

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by 3rdCrow_
> *I'm probably late on this subject...but if it's alright i would love to join this study. I have a pretty steady amount of LD's a month and i have excellent dream recall even after months passed. I've been looking for someone to finally start a study just like this. So i will contribute whatever i can.....*




WELCOME 3rdCrow to Dream Views & the Research Team.
Never too late   ::wink::  

I would li9ke to think that this could get ignited at any time, given we have enough people that seem interested. 
It just seems that paring people up is not working to well.

What are your thought on the entire concept?

----------


## Newatthis

I would be willing to help in anyway I can. Although I haven't lucided in a while, I'm getting better at WILDing, and i have pretty good recall so, if it is indeed a one sided thing, I can help.

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Newatthis_
> *I would be willing to help in anyway I can. Although I haven't lucided in a while, I'm getting better at WILDing, and i have pretty good recall so, if it is indeed a one sided thing, I can help.*



Thanks Newatthis. I appreciate your involvement.
It seems the more we discuss this it is not a two side experiment where you would need a "target". 
We believe that being in-sync would most likely help. 
IF you have any theories of your own to shake up the pot a little, throw it at us.   ::wink::

----------


## Aeiis

Hi, Aeiis Here.

I'm new, and I am just starting to develop lucid dreaming and what not, however my dream recall has always been excellent. I am posting in here because I would hate to see such a wonderful, thought out experiment die off. The things I have read in here (all 6 pages) are great progress and I think it should be continued.

Though my abilities are not yet developed, I believe I can offer some good insight on how to get this ball rolling and how the process of P2P (person to person) dreaming would work. I of course have some theories.

Regarding the Time issue. I once read a book called "Where God Lives". The book, though not related to lucid dreaming, discussed memories. It was believed that memories were stored in a universal memory bank, where every memory was placed. It was also believed that these memories could be called upon on purporse or accidently into the memory of a person (which is their explanation of Past Life Memories). Is it possible that dream sharing works the same way? IF a dream was created with a person but a person was not in the right state of mind or for whatever reason wasnt ready to the recieve the dream the brain could eventually open it self up to recieve it.

I would love to aid this project in any way possible that is applicable to my resources.

Please come back to the thread   ::shakehead2::

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Aeiis_
> *Hi, Aeiis Here.
> 
> I'm new, and I am just starting to develop lucid dreaming and what not, however my dream recall has always been excellent. I am posting in here because I would hate to see such a wonderful, thought out experiment die off. The things I have read in here (all 6 pages) are great progress and I think it should be continued.
> 
> Though my abilities are not yet developed, I believe I can offer some good insight on how to get this ball rolling and how the process of P2P (person to person) dreaming would work. I of course have some theories.
> 
> Regarding the Time issue. I once read a book called "Where God Lives". The book, though not related to lucid dreaming, discussed memories. It was believed that memories were stored in a universal memory bank, where every memory was placed. It was also believed that these memories could be called upon on purporse or accidently into the memory of a person (which is their explanation of Past Life Memories). Is it possible that dream sharing works the same way? IF a dream was created with a person but a person was not in the right state of mind or for whatever reason wasnt ready to the recieve the dream the brain could eventually open it self up to recieve it.
> 
> ...



HEY! Still here.
We need some fresh ideas (welcome , by the way!!!  :smiley:  )
What do you think.
Since you have read the entire thing, we can't seem to ignite this concept.
In regards to memory &  a lot of things. 
Many of these discussion come back to a "univarsal" this or that.
A universal consciousness. Would this be playing a role?

----------


## Aeiis

This "Universal....place" would have to come into role. It is almost seeming to me like our minds are the computer and that we have a connection to this place, lets call it our ISP (internet service provider for those technically challened  :smiley:  . All computers hook into this in order to recieve information from each other. Some times information lags on getting from one place to another for reasons such as strain on the ISP.

If we assume our thoughts are something instant that can move easily to other minds then of course it would not seem logical that someone would have a dream later than when the dream was originally created. However if you think of it as something tangible, something that must be moved to another place it could make sense.

I realize that was a bit old but it just tied in with my Universal Mind Place (UMP for now on) theory-thingy.

The only way into other dreams, in theory, would have to take place via the UMP. This would of course mean that all thoughts developed would meet at the UMP and would stay there until summoned up by another brain.

Assuming this as fact, If one were to picture themselves entering through a tube...or a portal as I think another poster used, then theoretically if done correctly a person should "land" in his/her requested destination. 

Now this comes back to the question if entering someone elses dream via the UMP is a 2 person deal. Lets go back to computer lingo (its what I know   ::D:  ).  Hackers don't have to be invited into computers, they merely don't have to be prevented. Unless I have some spyware protection downloaded then Hackers can pretty much enter the computer without be being able to stop them.

...so...is it obvious where I am going with this? Dream Jumpers should, in theory, merely have to enter someone else's dream without their permission, unless they are somehow subconciouslly "blocking their tube" from recieving any outside things.

I have made it seem kind of simple, haven't I? I am assuming if it was this simple then most of the people on here attempting this would already have done so being that I haven't really changed the procedure to do this simply the process that takes place. However now that we can assume that this is how it works maybe this knowledge will unlock the ability. If you were to think about how it worked while doing it? I'm not sure, like I said, I am not experienced with lucid dreaming yet, but logic is something that I am good at. Hopefully I have shined some light on this.

I would really appreciate anyone's comments on this theory.

----------


## Kastro187420

Ok, I didn't read all the posts, there 7 pages, and alot of long posts.

Anyway, if you want to try this experiment, and need a 3rd party person, i'd be willing to do this. Just send me an E-mail at [email protected] detailing your dream, and have your partner that your trying this with do the same, and i'll compare and post results after recieving both dreams.

I know theres a chance people will get together and plan a story, and send them in, but I guess for now, until theres a sure way to do it, we'll have to rely on trust as someone said in the beginning of this thread.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in doing it, let me know and i'll be willing to help, because I would love for this to be true.

----------


## Beef Jerky

I would gladly sign up to be a reveiwer dude. Is what I'll do is, when 2 people think they had a shared lucid, they cannot contact each other then they both PM me their sides of the dream. I view them and if they are the same... WALLA we have a pair of shared dreamers.   ::D:   ::D:   ::D:

----------


## Gwendolyn

I'm up to it, if anyone feels that they want to partner up. This is a cool experiment.

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Gwendolyn_
> *I'm up to it, if anyone feels that they want to partner up. This is a cool experiment.*



I would be happy to partner up with you Gwen.
I have been having many dreams and good recall lately.
But if lucidity is a must you may want to try someone else. My lucidity has been rather sub-par as of late.  :tongue2:  

We don't know at this point if lucidity plays a role or not. Many claim it doesn't.

----------


## Gwendolyn

[quote]

I would be happy to partner up with you Gwen.
I have been having many dreams and good recall lately.
But if lucidity is a must you may want to try someone else. My lucidity has been rather sub-par as of late.  :tongue2:  

We don't know at this point if lucidity plays a role or not. Many claim it doesn't.

Don't worry about that, Howie. I don't think it'll be a problem. I am so glad that we're partners. This'll be a neat project.

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by Gwendolyn+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwendolyn)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry about that, Howie. I don't think it'll be a problem. I am so glad that we're partners. This'll be a neat project.[/b]
> 			
> 		
> ...

----------


## Gwendolyn

That's a great starting point.

----------


## italianmonkey

herr
i'm new and I don't know if anyone else had this idea but
is there in this php something like a checklist, where like a form that stays in only one page where you can write nickname, time zone , what kind of help you offer and so on?
it would make it a lot easier to find partners! maybe asking the "internet development team"...

anyway the experiment sounds nice. I had a couple of shared dreams but I'm not sure at all it was real. only one was lucid, and also not "well held".  if this thing will start again I would like to partecipate (with a british/french/so on partner of course)

kisses

----------


## Howie

> _Originally posted by italianmonkey_
> *ups! i didn't see it esists already
> sorry
> 
> *



No problem   :wink2:  
I am glad to see you have become active in some of the Research projects.
Feel free to PM anyone you feel comfortable pairing up with. Or contact me and I can set something up.

Also I have found that the written abstract journal has become helpful. It seems to be a good process for a train of thought to invoke Hi before bed also.   :smiley:

----------


## the real pieman

if there is anything i can do to help let me know, i am experienced in shared dreams, i am actually experimenting on doing them now...PM me or post another post on here if there is anything i can do...

a bit of advice, if you are looking for a common starting point, try a white room with no boundaries, just white, its the simplest thing your mind can come up with, and that will give your mind more energy to help link dreams together, its always worked for me, in fact its the only method that has worked for me...

----------


## Ryo_Kenchi

Just a thought here, time might not matter.  If someone on the other side of the planet has a dream like 12 hours after the person they are sharing it with, might they have the same dream?  Might just be something to check into after the experiment is recorded for a while, and if it does work, then try different variations to see the limits of such dreams.

I don&#39;t think distance has any effect on whether or not you can have a shared dream or other experience, as it has been reported that twins on opposite ends of the earth can sometimes "feel" what their twin is feeling.  So maybe time won&#39;t matter either.

By the way, I DO believe it is possible to have a shared dream, as I have had one with my brother once.  It was the same night at the same time.

~Ryo

----------


## dreamzer

I have great recall, but not much of a lucier i can help aslo just pm me

----------


## faedin

Hello - 

I am new to this forum.  It seems that this thread has died off, but I am going to post just in case there is still interest and the experiment is still a possiblity.  I have had several shared dreams, with varying degrees of lucidity. I had a girlfriend who was an amazing dreamer, and she could literally _pull_ me into her dreamspace.  She described her technique to me, and I am happy to pass it along if there is interest. 

It is interesting to note that I was not much of a lucid dreamer then, but she was able to awaken my lucidity anyway.  As such, my experience has been that only one dreamer has to be lucid/skilled.

On a secondary note, I've read all the postings in this thread.  While I greatly appreciate the intention to document this phenomenon scientifically, I also am suprised by the attempts to "define" the potential science of shared dreaming (i.e. how it could be possible, how it could function beyond time, etc.). So much that is "possible" in dreams is determined by what we believe to be possible - why bother trying to create laws around shared dreams BEFORE having them. It is a limiting factor. Instead, begin experimenting with shared dreams in the attempt to prove that they're possible, and THEN come up with theories about Why.

----------


## Sapphire

Any hope in reviving this old thread?

----------


## fazer

I didn't read all the posts (actually i got about halfway through the first page) when i wanted to comment, a while ago I dreamed my GF's dad did something REALLY screwed up to me, and that doesn't really seem like his background to me, then when later that day when she called me I told her about the dream (i had already told her before that about experiments with telepathy among other things, which it was pretty apparent she didn't believe.) and then she was amazed and started asking me questions about telepathy and stuff. Appearently her dad did something really messed up to someone in her family and she just recently found out about it and says its hard for her not to hate him for it, and that she was thinking about it that day.  ::?:  lol

EDIT: O_O the thread is dead.......

----------


## Interested1

Okay, this is a new path in the conversation...but I have a need for some help, if any of you have any useful words of advise  :smiley: 

I only learned about lucid dreaming as lucid dreaming last night.  I have been having them since I was a child.  In recent years, there is a certain person that I meet quite frequently...but it feels different than other lucid dreams.  I really think and feel like we're sharing a dream...like this person is actually with me & it's not a part of my brain.  It's not an appropriate question to pose in waking life, so I want to ask in the dream (once I learn to gain a little more control).  But I want to make sure that I do it gently, so that if this person doesn't know, I won't startle him awake.  Does rehersing this before sleep help you to remember in in sleep?  Or should I just be in the moment and ask as would be appropriate in the context of the dream?  Or do you have something that may work better than either of these ideas?

Thanks for any help or advice!

----------


## Placebo

Rehearsing will help you remember what you want to do. But since you're lucid, you can adapt the situation as you need.
I've had the same experience, but was dissappointed by the truth  :smiley:

----------


## Interested1

Well, that's not very encouraging...but it's worth finding out either way...

Thanks for the input!

----------


## Photolysis

Are you telepathic? Can you hear other people's thoughts*?

Nope. Therefore shared dreaming is impossible**. QED.

*If you can hear other voices then you need to seek help.
**Telepathy would be a requirement since dreams are constructs of the mind, and in order to share this with someone, it would require a link from mind to mind, i.e. telepathy.

----------


## Interested1

Sometimes...

There is so much about the human brain that is unknown...nothing is impossible...only unknown.  It's just a personal opinion, but I really believe there's more to dreaming than meets the eye.

----------


## Photolysis

> Sometimes...
> 
> There is so much about the human brain that is unknown...nothing is impossible...only unknown.  It's just a personal opinion, but I really believe there's more to dreaming than meets the eye.



There is a lot about the brain that is not known, this is perfectly true. Conversely, there is a lot that we already know.

For instance, we know how nerve signals - which along with the way the pathways are constructed, are at the core of how the brain functions - are created and propagated. It's simply electro-chemical reactions taking place. A little more specifically, it's to do with ions flowing in and out of nerve cells through the membranes creating polarized sections of the membrane, allowing electronic charges to flow.

The simple fact is, is that we know the basic premesis on which the brain operates, and that there is a mountain of evidence that the brain controls the body and uses this to pass along ideas and information. There's a mountain of evidence that dreaming is simply a certain state of the mind. And there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the brain is capable of communicating by simply thoughts alone, with no action from a person's body (with our present technology; future advances may allow machine-brain interfaces but this is irrelevant to this argument), that has undergone rigorous analysis and peer review. Anything to the contrary is pseudoscience at best.

Given this simple fact, it is easy to see that there is no evidence for shared dreaming, and a massive amount of evidence (and simple logic) for it's non-existence.

There certainly might be more to dreaming than meets the eye. Maybe it will be discovered that we all have multiple personalities that dreaming helps to integrate into a whole, or some other function. Perhaps it allows us an insight into the unconscious mind. But dreaming will not involve breaking the laws of physics, or any nonsense about travelling to magical planes of existence as some believe.

----------


## Interested1

Seriously, I'm not talking about magical planes of existense...although, I'm not omniscient, so I also can't say with 100&#37; certanty that it is either true or not true.  Why I believe what I do simply comes down to faith.  

I believe in God, and Satan and Angels and Demons and us.  We are spiritual beings, trapped in human form (my belief).  If you believe in these things (which I don't know) then you believe that there is a spiritual interaction going on around us each and every moment of each and every day.  How can anyone say what the spirit is capable of when our unconcious mind is free from the constraints of our concious mind.  

It's obvious that you are educated on the subject of the brain and it's function, and if I ever had any question at all about my brain...I would come to you...but this isn't just about the brain.  It's an interaction between the spirit and the brain (I should have been more clear about why I think what I do in my last post) and the truth is that there is no way to measure that interaction.  There are simply some things we are not meant to know.  

I'm just here, trying to get a better understanding of one of my characteristcs with people of a common characteristic.  My dreams are more than lucid...I'm just trying to understand why...

And on a side note, there is evidence that people can move/bend objects with only the use of their minds and not their hands.  I do, however, respect and appreciate your point of view.

----------


## Chrno666

i haven't had a lucid dream yet and i've started dream recalling this week so far i got 5 dreams and 2 fragments, if you see me fit to participate in the experience has a reciver i'd  be glad to help

----------


## Fox

> And on a side note, there is evidence that people can move/bend objects with only the use of their minds and not their hands.  I do, however, respect and appreciate your point of view.



There's no evidence. It's either trickery or bullshit.

----------


## Angelmouse

Considering what we deal in on this and forums like this; some people can be so close minded.  ::shakehead2::

----------


## jahnauasca

> There's no evidence. It's either trickery or bullshit.



It comes back to perception. Everything you see is not directly through the lenses of the eyes, its a construct your mind produces via the information it gets from the eyes. So, with that in mind question the "reality" around you. Could you possibly live in a world where somewhere at sometime someone did bend a spoon with their mind?

----------


## RasRebel

> There is a lot about the brain that is not known, this is perfectly true. Conversely, there is a lot that we already know.
> 
> For instance, we know how nerve signals - which along with the way the pathways are constructed, are at the core of how the brain functions - are created and propagated. It's simply electro-chemical reactions taking place. A little more specifically, it's to do with ions flowing in and out of nerve cells through the membranes creating polarized sections of the membrane, allowing electronic charges to flow.
> 
> The simple fact is, is that we know the basic premesis on which the brain operates, and that there is a mountain of evidence that the brain controls the body and uses this to pass along ideas and information. There's a mountain of evidence that dreaming is simply a certain state of the mind. And there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the brain is capable of communicating by simply thoughts alone, with no action from a person's body (with our present technology; future advances may allow machine-brain interfaces but this is irrelevant to this argument), that has undergone rigorous analysis and peer review. Anything to the contrary is pseudoscience at best.
> 
> Given this simple fact, it is easy to see that there is no evidence for shared dreaming, and a massive amount of evidence (and simple logic) for it's non-existence.
> 
> There certainly might be more to dreaming than meets the eye. Maybe it will be discovered that we all have multiple personalities that dreaming helps to integrate into a whole, or some other function. Perhaps it allows us an insight into the unconscious mind. But dreaming will not involve breaking the laws of physics, or any nonsense about travelling to magical planes of existence as some believe.



And what seperates the human mind from an animal mind? Where lies the soul? You think you could give a computer a soul by exactly recreating a brain with modern technologies?

edit: I'm not saying, that I believe in telepathy or something like that. I just say, that I'm not sure, if only the electricity in someones brain makes him a thinking being. Thats really interesting. I'm somewhat into philosphy and therefore I think the dualism of soul and brain seems to be the best answer on this question.

----------


## Interested1

So, I've been here for a little while now & I'd love to get in on this project...if it is at all still moving!  My recall is great for a while...then not so great.  Very spuradic...but I would still love to be involved.  Are there any results that we can be updated with?  I would love to see how this has been going!

----------


## Photolysis

> And what seperates the human mind from an animal mind? Where lies the soul? You think you could give a computer a soul by exactly recreating a brain with modern technologies?
> 
> edit: I'm not saying, that I believe in telepathy or something like that. I just say, that I'm not sure, if only the electricity in someones brain makes him a thinking being. Thats really interesting. I'm somewhat into philosphy and therefore I think the dualism of soul and brain seems to be the best answer on this question.



You say this as if it is a confirmed fact that such things as souls exist. Believe what you wish, but it's far from a confirmed fact and indeed there's no scientific evidence for it. If souls don't exist, your first paragraph is meaningless.

As someone who doesn't believe in the concept (and indeed finds it extremely arrogant that humanity boasts it's mental superiority and only grants itself the status of having a soul), here's my view:

What seperates a human and animal mind (though techically we're still animals... so by animal mind I mean an organism with a brain less developed than a human one)? Complexity. And it is this complexity that has produced a brain capable of extrordinary things. Consciousness. Emotion. Abstraction. Reason and logic.

If you could recreate a brain using computer circuitry, it would simply be a copy of the brain of the person being used as a template. Essentially it would be a mechanical clone. If you created a new brain would it be a person? We get deeply into philosophical issues here, but on the face of it, I don't see why not.

A lot of people don't like the idea that all their thoughts and so on are simply electro-chemical reactions taking place in a very complicated set of nerve pathways. It appears (or perhaps it does; I don't know) to remove the element of free will, and seems to reduce a person's personality down to simply being a complicated flow of ions. But that doesn't change the fact that at a fundamental level this is how our brains work. However emotionally unappealing an idea may be, it has no effect on it's truthfulness.

What makes you think we have a soul anyway (religious reasons I assume)? And assuming we do have one, how does it affect our brain chemistry, which is responsible for our thoughts?

----------


## Roald

> Are you telepathic? Can you hear other people's thoughts*?
> 
> Nope. Therefore shared dreaming is impossible**. QED.
> 
> *If you can hear other voices then you need to seek help.
> **Telepathy would be a requirement since dreams are constructs of the mind, and in order to share this with someone, it would require a link from mind to mind, i.e. telepathy.



Im sorry where are you getting this "evidence" that dreams are entirely constructs of the mind? Could you prove beyond a doubt that dreams are 100% mind generated? I didnt think so.

On a side note, super string theory which is indeed physics of sorts describes the world as either 10, 11, or 26 dimensions. All of which everything exists as a vibrational energy. Now if we perceive up to the 4th dimension (time) in everyday life, you could not dis-prove dreaming occurring on "another plane of existence" such as a spiritual realm etc and the "proof" of dreaming being all in your mind merely being a side effect of such existence. Perhaps the soul exists only on a higher plane, thus being undetectable by our 4D senses. If we are just electrical impulses and no more, whats stopping your computer having consciousness and deciding to do things on its own? Whats stopping it from communicating with you if souls are not essential for consciousness? Which also brings us to reviving the dead. Ever noticed how no matter how much energy you put into a corpse it still doesnt reanimate once its lost its soul?  :wink2:  I know I have ::D:

----------


## Exhalent

Nice bump btw.

----------


## ChaybaChayba

> Are you telepathic? Can you hear other people's thoughts*?
> 
> Nope. *Therefore shared dreaming is impossible***. QED.
> 
> *If you can hear other voices then you need to seek help.
> **Telepathy would be a requirement since dreams are constructs of the mind, and in order to share this with someone, it would require a link from mind to mind, i.e. telepathy.



If we would live in the middle-ages, you would belong to the group of people who would burn people at the stake for claiming the earth is round. Because, according to your logic, the earth can't possibly be round, due to the fact we would fall off.  ::lol::  Lol. Please.*Theres no point at all in claiming this or that is impossible.* Keeping an open mind won't get you killed. (unless theres idiots like you around, who will do anything to protect their belief of this and that being impossible.) We don't live in the middle-ages anymoe, but it is very obvious, if someone would claim shared dreaming is possible, you would declare them insane, and would put them in the madhouse. Which is worse than burning them on the stake. It's not science who claims this is impossible, its closeminded people like you who think they know science, but are actually too lazy to get into science. Both thumbs down for your attitude which slows down progress of science. *This is not skeptisism, this is nothing but being closeminded.* First explain me the mechanics of gravity, Mr scientific expert, then you can explain me how the mechanics of shared dreaming is impossible. Not even Einstein was able to explain the mechanics of gravity. He was only able to describe it as a "bending of spacetime". Thats it.




> Hello - 
> 
> I am new to this forum.  It seems that this thread has died off, but I am going to post just in case there is still interest and the experiment is still a possiblity.  I have had several shared dreams, with varying degrees of lucidity. I had a girlfriend who was an amazing dreamer, and she could literally _pull_ me into her dreamspace. * She described her technique to me, and I am happy to pass it along if there is interest.* 
> 
> It is interesting to note that I was not much of a lucid dreamer then, but she was able to awaken my lucidity anyway.  As such, my experience has been that only one dreamer has to be lucid/skilled.
> 
> On a secondary note, I've read all the postings in this thread.  While I greatly appreciate the intention to document this phenomenon scientifically, I also am suprised by the attempts to "define" the potential science of shared dreaming (i.e. how it could be possible, how it could function beyond time, etc.). So much that is "possible" in dreams is determined by what we believe to be possible - why bother trying to create laws around shared dreams BEFORE having them. It is a limiting factor. Instead, begin experimenting with shared dreams in the attempt to prove that they're possible, and THEN come up with theories about Why.



Completely agreed on your secondary note, and feel free to share your technique any information on shared dreaming is welcome imo. I'm very interested in that technqiue, feel free to share it ^^

----------


## onyxdreamer

Hi,

I just found this post.

Was this experimented eventually conducted? Are the results posted anywhere on the forum?

----------


## Chastity-Autumn

Something like this happened with me and my sister a couple of years back. We were both experiencing the same dream on the same night, etc. 
I've always wondered if it had anything to do with us being twins. xD

----------


## ShadowmanX

> Something like this happened with me and my sister a couple of years back. We were both experiencing the same dream on the same night, etc. 
> I've always wondered if it had anything to do with us being twins. xD



I guess it could be possible ^^. Might be a good idea to try on some more Shared dreams.

I hope this thread can be revived again. I'm currently just in the phase of trying to get a lucid dream, so I would only be able to be the 3rd party. But as soon as I am able to lucid dream I'll start my own experiments with a friend of mine.

And as of this thread: might be a good idea to have more threads about this topic. Maybe 1 for general talking about the topic(guess that would be this thread), 1 for results and background of the tests,... I can't think of more right now ^^

PS: Don't let the ignorance win and start to share your dreams

----------


## Luzid

Given that there is zero evidence that conciousness can extend outside of the cerbral cortex, this is on the same level as other unsupported alleged phenomona, such as wishes, OOBEs and ESP.

----------


## Chastity-Autumn

It's also stated that to post in these particular threads you have to believe in such things.

----------


## Luzid

> Are you telepathic? Can you hear other people's thoughts*?
> 
> Nope. Therefore shared dreaming is impossible**. QED.
> 
> *If you can hear other voices then you need to seek help.
> **Telepathy would be a requirement since dreams are constructs of the mind, and in order to share this with someone, it would require a link from mind to mind, i.e. telepathy.



Ahhhh, a voice of reason.

----------


## Luzid

> It's also stated that to post in these particular threads you have to believe in such things.




Hi! Can you please point me to where it states one must be a True Believer to voice one's viewpoint?

Thanks in advance!

----------


## Chastity-Autumn

Hi there! 

But I do apologise, it does say "Here OBEs, dream precognition, sharing dreams, and other freaky paranormal things can be discussed. Note that this particular forum is ONLY for members who BELIEVE in the aforementioned topics." but it's actually stated under the "Beyond dreaming thread." 

My mistake. Go about your business.

----------


## ShadowmanX

And the world is a disc they said...

----------


## G0MPgomp

Reality, is a shared "lucid" ...

Muse on it. :p

----------


## ShadowmanX

> Reality, is a shared "lucid" ...
> 
> Muse on it. :p



And a pretty realistic and long lasting one too  ::D:

----------


## G0MPgomp

> And a pretty realistic and long lasting one too



Agreed!  :wink2:

----------


## WakataDreamer

> What are the possibilties that dream sharing exists on a plane much like astral projection.
> Rather than an actual dream.
> 
> This would allow for the two individuals to simotaniously exist without the compromise on a dream scene.



I actually believe in the definate possibility of a dream plane.

Btw I could possibly take part in this but the other people involved would have to find me and make me lucid...cuz I'm no good at WILD and I'm not bad at DILD but my dreamsign is rather infrequent, so the chances of me already being lucid when you find me are practically nil.

But don't worry about me waking up or losing my lucidity once you make me aware. Becoming lucid is the tough part for me, but once I am excellent at mantaining it.

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## [Alpha]-0mega-

There are many different theories one can make up.
For example you could also look at it like a server equivalent:

What if when you're dreaming it's nothing more than playing a sandbox game on a predefined area on a server?

Then if someone would want to have a shared dream, all they'd have to do is find that server and connect to it.

And where or what is that server exactly, does it have protection?

I tried using this theory to connect to other people's dreams, the results?:

I WANT TO ENTER THOU DREAM, MISTER *NAME*.
AND I SHALL ENTER THROUGH THIS DOOR!

*Door appears (or was already there)*
*Me opens door*
*Door leads to black void*
*I wake up*

An interesting bit I read was about some story about ''dream wizards'' but that people had to be willing to let someone in, kind of like a Dream-Firewall, if you wish.

Perhaps that black void I kept walking into was the result of me leaving my own server, failing to enter the other and being stuck in nothingness?

I do believe that a girl managed to enter my dream through a certain manner though, but I don't know how she accomplished it.

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## WakataDreamer

Try to join a dream of mine. 

Create a door and say, "When I pass through this door, I will enter WakataDreamer's current dream. If he is not currently dreaming then I will be unable to open the door until he enters a dream." If it works and you pass through the door, try to identify me ("I will now teleport and wind up directly in front of WakataDreamer," if you will) and remind me to do a reality check. Tell me that you are that guy from the forums.

If you decide to try, tell me, and I'll tell you if it worked.

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## ShadowmanX

> I actually believe in the definate possibility of a dream plane.
> 
> Btw I could possibly take part in this but the other people involved would have to find me and make me lucid...cuz I'm no good at WILD and I'm not bad at DILD but my dreamsign is rather infrequent, so the chances of me already being lucid when you find me are practically nil.
> 
> But don't worry about me waking up or losing my lucidity once you make me aware. Becoming lucid is the tough part for me, but once I am excellent at mantaining it.



try it like me, i just do a lot of Reality Checks during the day,...which reminds me *doing RC*. lately it finally brought the wanted effect, I had 3 Lucids in 2 nights, which where my 3rd to 5th lucid  ::D: . Anyone ever shot a lightning in the sky? Thats the greatest thing I've ever done, when the lightning arrived at the horizon a huge net of lightnings grew there, it looked extremely cool.

Anyway since at last I have good lasting lucids, at least I hope they will come more regular now, I will try to establish one of my lucid tasks: *"Infiltrating another persons dream"*. That'll gonna be interessting, hehe

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## baddog

Just had an interesting thought. I know nothing about psychology, or neurolog or anything, but I'm just wondering what would happen if you put to people in a room (they are both asleep), and hooked one of them up to an EEG. When they dream, you could possible translate the EEG's data into an external stimulus, such as a sound or flashing light. When the other person is exposed to this stimuli, what would be the reaction? Would it trigger a similar dream, or just annoy them? Just a thought  :wink2:

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## shotbirds

I dislike seeing shared lucid threads since its not possible. -_-

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## lucid4sho

I've had several.  One time I had one with a friend and since it seemed so much like it was really him, after I woke up I wrote down tons of details and pictures from the dream so I could show him and see if he remembered. When we met up we instantly and simultaneously started talking about the dream and he also had a written description and drawings, everything was completely identical, we were definitely amazed. 


Although I think the majority of the time people are just DCs

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## Rai Saix

> I dislike seeing shared lucid threads since its not possible. -_-



Closed Minded. /discussion

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## Photolysis

> Closed Minded



Disregarding laws of physics, modern medicine, and using confirmation bias.

/discussion

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## RadiantZeal

The Experiment I have come up with is the following.
In dream, when you are interacting with other people (I don't know how to look for specific people, I only happen across them accidentally in dream), provide contact information in dream, and see if anyone actually replies in real life. Include a key word, phrase, or something, that they would only have been able to know if at anytime they shared your dream. Who knows who you might hear from in the waking world.
I would like to see some experienced lucid dreamers try this and report their findings. I still can't induce these at the drop of a hat, but I am getting better at it. Maybe some of you experienced dreamers can do it more readily and easily, but i am currently attempting this experiment to see if my theory of unified consciousness is true.

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## oniman7

If this experiment is still going on..... maybe it would be best to have the two people in the same room/house. They should also know each other very well. This might explain why husband and wife report shared dreams.

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## RadiantZeal

That won't work very well, I think.
Dreams aren't my only interest and research, and if my theory is right, unified consciousness will transcend space and time as individual consciousness does. That being the case, whether two people are in the same house or on opposite sides of the world, distance doesn't matter. On that note, if two people are in the same house, it does not necessarily mean they are close by in the dream world.
Just because two people sleep close by, doesn't mean that they will necessarily interact in the dream world.

Both people would have to be very experienced dream walkers to be able to consciously find one another in the dream world. I am not the most experienced in this, so in my inexperience I am going to try it in a more abstract and/or random manner. I do not know any other experienced dream walkers either, so finding a partner won't be easy.

I believe the reasoning behind a couple sharing dreams is because their consciousness develops a link through interaction in the Waking world. The funny thing about consciousness is that it is not a material thing, and the interacting of two conscious beings develops a subtle bond. Through continuous interaction between two consciousnesses, the bond strengthens. It is not a far step to believe that this bond can carry over beyond the physical realm and into that of the dream realm.
A means of in-dream contact can be because of this bond, or because of the same thing that happens during WILDs; continuous thought of something tends to evoke an in-dream interaction with said thought. A couple will almost always think of the other individual, so the interaction between the two in the dream world is more likely. Either the bond is the cause, or the bond is an advantage to the cause.

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## WolfTsunade

I have a twin sister that I usually try to share a dream with. Its actually a habit of mine in LDs to tell her that she's dreaming when I see her, she does the same thing but we have not been able to recall telling each other that were dreaming. 
We usually have 1-2 LDs per week and we sometimes have one on the same night ::D: . Im pretty sure shared LDs are possible and we will continue trying to have one.

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## RadiantZeal

This is the tricky thing; how can a person be sure the person in the dream they are interacting with is the actual person (in this case your sister), or just a representation of your sister originating from your mind?
I am also wondering if any particular individual one interacts with in a dream is actually who they appear to be; shapes and peoples appearances change quite readily in the dream world, and many people don't actually appear in the dream as they appear in real life. This is a setback in the experiment when attempting it with a particular person, ie. you and your sister.

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## WolfTsunade

> This is the tricky thing; how can a person be sure the person in the dream they are interacting with is the actual person (in this case your sister), or just a representation of your sister originating from your mind?
> I am also wondering if any particular individual one interacts with in a dream is actually who they appear to be; shapes and peoples appearances change quite readily in the dream world, and many people don't actually appear in the dream as they appear in real life. This is a setback in the experiment when attempting it with a particular person, ie. you and your sister.



Im actually sure it could be a representation of her, but Im not to sure.

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## WakataDreamer

> Im actually sure it could be a representation of her, but Im not to sure.



The greatest paradox I've ever seen on DV.

Congratz  ::goodjob2::   :Clap:  

 ::D:

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## Wildman

Personally, I don't believe in shared dreaming at all. However, I think it's interesting and am willing to be open minded about it. I think an important question to ask in these experiments, is what is required to make it work, if it exists. For example:





> Try to join a dream of mine. 
> 
> Create a door and say, "When I pass through this door, I will enter WakataDreamer's current dream. If he is not currently dreaming then I will be unable to open the door until he enters a dream." If it works and you pass through the door, try to identify me ("I will now teleport and wind up directly in front of WakataDreamer," if you will) and remind me to do a reality check. Tell me that you are that guy from the forums.



What is actually needed to find someone in a dream? Do the people need to actually know each other, have some sort of real life attachment? Say I try to follow the above instructions: what is "WakataDreamer" to me? Just a name, essentially. My intention is not locked really on a person, and will probably fail, even supposing shared dreaming works.

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## RadiantZeal

You bring up a good point; How can one know the identity of a person to be able to enter into their dream? What is 'identity' anyways, and how can a person use that to locate another dreamer?
When you tell yourself in dream "I want to find 'wakatadreamer'", what does that even mean? Suppose we knew each others real names, what does the name of a person imply? Are names not labels one attaches to something to identify with it? 'Me' and 'it'? 'This' and 'That'? 'Here' and 'There'?
It would have to be the consciousness that one would have to identify with, not the name. The name, in these circumstances, means nothing.

But how can we identify with a consciousness? Or rather, a particular consciousness?

We should try and start somewhere.
When I talk to you, or you talk to me, we aren't talking to each others fingers, or eyes, or names etc. We are talking to one another's consciousness. we use these things as mediums between two souls; a means, not an end.
In the dream world we no longer need fingers, or eyes, or names, because these are things of the physical realm. We bring these things into the dream world because they are so familiar to us, so a part of us, that we bring the concepts of them with us. As we all know, we don't need eyes to see in the dream world, but we use eyes because it is natural for our minds and consciousness to use eyes as a means of sight.
Remember the movie "A waking life"? The guy in that movie was practicing seeing out of the back of his head. This is a good example of our not needing eyes to see, but use them as something we automatically and naturally assume to need to use. You never think about seeing to be able to see, you just do. This is brought into the dream world with us.

But all in all, it is consciousness that is the only means of sight, or sound, our touch, etc. In fact, how many of you ever actually blink in a dream, or are bale to close your eyes and see nothing at all? Unless this is your actual intention, you never do it, I would wager.

So, on this note, consciousness is the prime means of interaction in the physical realm and the dream realm. How, then, do we identify with a nameless consciousness? How would we locate on another in the dream world at will?
I will have to test this out and experiment and think a bit, but I have an idea, just a pretty unsubstantial and incoherent idea; the idea is very, very abstract, I wouldn't know how to put it into words. Ill see if I can flesh it out so I can share, and maybe some of you might have some input in the mean time.
I am confidant this experiment will either yield great results, or nothing at all. Its pretty redundant to say that, but what I mean is, is that of all the experiments, this could be one that has the greatest potential to determine if shared dreams are possible. If they are, then the implications would be astounding; to think, proof of unified consciousness through dreams!
Of course, if we fail and no one is able to do this, it doesn't put to rest the potential, but it can be considered a really good try at finding some answers, wouldn't you agree?

We have to assume the potential is there, and doing so will allow each of us to keep an open mind (shouldn't be too hard for you all, considering the people who reside in this forum seem to be open-minded dreamers  :tongue2: ). But it is crucial that we keep an open mind about this. Assume it's possible, rather than assume it not possible and bar all potential from the start. Results or the lack thereof will speak for themselves, I think. Even if we fail, as I mentioned, still keep an open mind; maybe we just weren't doing it right  ::D:

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## RadiantZeal

Oh, and before I forget, try and do the not-so-specific experiment I posted, and see if you get any results. It's a lot more hit and miss, random, but it negates the need of trying to locate a specific person.

I don't know, or even much care if you post the results here, or here: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=67847
But it might swamp a thread that isn't geared specifically towards this particular experiment. It would be easier and more manageable to post at the link, so all of the results are contained in one place, but I'll leave it up to you people; ill check both anyways, as I'm sure you will too.

Also, try and interact with DC's in as many different ways as possible; the array of interactions could bring something up, and idea or a breakthrough otherwise missed. 

I hope many people will participate in this experiment; the more people, the greater the chance of success.

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## WakataDreamer

Wildman's right...shit.  :Mad:

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## RadiantZeal

> Wildman's right...shit.



About what?

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## WakataDreamer

> About what?



This:






> What is actually needed to find someone in a dream? Do the people need to actually know each other, have some sort of real life attachment? Say I try to follow the above instructions: what is "WakataDreamer" to me? Just a name, essentially. My intention is not locked really on a person, and will probably fail, even supposing shared dreaming works.

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## SleepyCookieDough

Was there any discoveries done yet? (in this thread) It's too long for me to read it all but I'm really interrested in knowing if shared dreams exist, it would be so cool... I don't have much experience in LDing so I think i should stay out of this but I can still give ideas... Or just see how it goes... And maybe join when I get better (if you guys aren't done yet) 

Anyways, I was never told how you're supposed to find someone in a shared dream so my first thought to this was that you could summon the person you want to have a shared dream him. Obviously it wouldn't be the real person but you could ask the DC of the person to bring you to their dream. That's what I thought.... If you want you can try or just ignore it... I'm still a noobie so sorry if I'm just annoying you guys... lol!

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## CloudOFmichael

i think this will be interesting 
http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=81995

see my vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aeVga0fdIk

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