# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  Centroid's Workbook

## Centroid

Hey! Im Centroid, a 15 year-old Parisian!

So, I've been drawn into lucid dreaming by my brother in November last year. At that time, I had read LaBerge's ETWOLD and followed what he said to do for a little under two months. During that time, I had only one semi-lucid dream, so I got discouraged and gave up. However, now I'm much more motivated and want to give it another go. 


I'll just share what I had been doing when I first started out:

-DJing, I could recall at least one full dream a night, more often two with fragments of other dreams

-RCing during the day whenever I saw a dream sign (for me: exams, traveling, childhood friends)

-WBTB + MILD at least once every two nights


I've been on holidays for already a week, and have pondered on what I should be doing. 

So first off, DJing. This week I have only been able to recall one full dream with plot etc., the other days 0-3 dream fragments. So, I guess I need some time for it to get as good as it had once been. I think here theres nothing to do except staying consistent and writing everything down.

Now things get slightly trickier, with day work and night work techniques


*Day Work*

So from what I understand here, RCing with dream signs is outdated, whereas awareness during the day is very important. But Im a bit confused with the number of techniques and which one(s) I should do

So there is the awareness of your environment (ADA or SAT) and the awareness of yourself (Self-Awareness). Now which one is better, or is it possible to do a hybrid with both? 

Also, my brother is currently obsessed over the awareness of his own weight (Gravity RC). Would this be a viable thing to do? Its kind of related to self-awareness i think. He claims he will become lucid every night, so there's competition which is always good (like with the race to space, if there hadn't been the Soviet Union the USA wouldn't have gone far).

So Im unsure of what to do during the day.


*Night Work (with WBTB)*

Here Im hesitating between MILD and SSILD. I have already tried MILD for a very long time with (almost) no result. Also I find it very boring after a number of attempts... However I am aware of the fact that some techniques need time to start producing results, and I have heard a lot about MILDs reliability. 

So yeah, and the other technique is SSILD. It has also been very successful for a lot of people, so I think Ill give it a try. I will see if it works better than MILD for me.

Oh and something very important I forgot to mention: here in France we have school on Saturday too (lucky us huh), and it starts every day at 8. So I guess Ill try and go to bed sooner (at 9 maybe) to have time to do a proper WBTB. It might be tricky because I have to study a lot too. Will see how it goes, but attempting a DILD technique only once a week is not what I had in mind.


Anyway enough about techniques, lets talk about goals!

*Short-term goals:*
-Recall at least one full dream every night
-Figure out which techniques to use, day and night
-Have one lucid dream

*Long-term goals:*
-Recall at least two dreams every night
-Use the techniques chosen with consistency 
-Become lucid at least once every week, preferably every night lol

*Dream goals:*
-Fly at supersonic speeds
-Eat a burger at a three-star restaurant
-Summon fire mentally and burn stuff at will (mwa-ha-ha!)
-Use the TARDIS to arrive in a random place at a random century 
-Relive the Battle of the Five Armies 
-Become a Jedi and fight a Sith Lord, and then destroy the Death Star (again, I know, Im sorry)


So there we have it, my first post ever! Yay! I think Ill post my progress weekly, as there probably wont be much to say every day

Thanks!

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## Habba

Hi and Welcome to Dream Views.

You may want to have a look at FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips and Unified theory of Lucid Dreaming

Self awareness is the key to lucid dreaming, reflect on your thoughts emotions, feelings, experiences. Although I don't recommend ADA it can help a ton with spotting dream signs more easily or anything that doesn't look normal.

Ah!  The gravity RC, the famous RC! yes, your brother is going to get far with that RC if he sticks to it! This RC was developed by Hukif and he is a member on this forum.

Good luck!

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## Centroid

> Hi and Welcome to Dream Views. 
> 
> You may want to have a look at FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips and Unified theory of Lucid Dreaming
> 
> Self awareness is the key to lucid dreaming, reflect on your thoughts emotions, feelings, experiences. Although I don't recommend ADA it can help a ton with spotting dream signs more easily or anything that doesn't look normal.
> 
> Ah!  The gravity RC, the famous RC! yes, your brother is going to get far with that RC if he sticks to it! This RC was developed by Hukif and he is a member on this forum.
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks Habba!

The links are great, I liked FryingMan's approach to LDing. I'm pretty excited he's a teacher here at DVA! 

Anyways, now I kinda wanna try out the Gravity RC, I feel like I'm missing out here haha! But yeah I'm afraid I'll end up giving up, because apparently it takes a lot of time to work, and only a handful of people have had success, from what I have read on the thread.

I'll give SSILD a try tonight. I'm also always attempting DEILD at any opportunity btw (no success so far though, still trying to get that first LD).

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## fogelbise

Welcome to the DILD workbooks Centroid!  :smiley:  My friend FryingMan and I help out with the workbooks. We have a lot of good experience between us.

I recommend that you consider that learning lucid dreaming is most like a journey of learning and measured progress, a journey where your eyes will gradually open up to a world of possibilities! As you have surely already experienced, it is nothing like learning to ride a bike, as an example. It would only be like learning to ride a bike if you had to learn much about the different parts of the bike and how they work and how to adjust and maintain them to get the maximum speed or efficiency before you ever start truly riding. It would also involve much more falling off of the bike and getting back on. The things you learn during the journey can help you in so many ways in addition to learning to lucid dream regularly. 

I would love to see you overcome the trend of our younger members taking breaks of years at a time before coming back to lucid dreaming (taking a breather for a few days or finding balance is always okay!). In order to do that you will want to find a way to make it fit in with schooling, studying and life in general.

Recall will come back up fairly quickly I bet and the tips Habba linked can help a lot with getting you back to your previous level and beyond.





> *Day Work*
> 
> 1) So from what I understand here, RCing with dream signs is outdated, whereas awareness during the day is very important. But I’m a bit confused with the number of techniques and which one(s) I should do…
> 
> 2) So there is the awareness of your environment (ADA or SAT) and the awareness of yourself (Self-Awareness). Now which one is better, or is it possible to do a hybrid with both? 
> 
> 3) Also, my brother is currently obsessed over the awareness of his own weight (Gravity RC). Would this be a viable thing to do? It’s kind of related to self-awareness i think. He claims he will become lucid every night, so there's competition which is always good (like with the race to space, if there hadn't been the Soviet Union the USA wouldn't have gone far).
> 
> 4)So I’m unsure of what to do during the day.



1) I wouldn't really say that it is outdated and it does help with awareness during the day. It does seem like it is not practiced as much or if someone tries it that they don't stick to it very long (perhaps not long enough to get consistent results). That said I do like Sageous' RRC for building self-awareness. I recommend when you stop and look around in wonder that you put a little of yourself into the actual view by doing something like putting your finger on your nose as you look around and contemplate the RRC methods.

2) I believe self-awareness work is much more applicable to lucid dreaming than ADA (see RRC above), although ADA may have some beneficial side effects.

3) Yes, the technique is powerful, and it never hurts to try. However, as you mentioned in your later post, it seems very challenging to lock it in for nightly LD's and may be easier after some more experience, or can be part of your longer journey with slower progression of occasional gravity triggered LD's at first and more frequent later.  You could also find that the technique fits perfectly for you or your brother. I am not at the every night of the month LD level. I sometimes go 6 nights in a row having LD's. I am in no rush though. I am enjoying the journey and the progress along the way, along with enjoying some fantastic dreams and lucid dreams.





> *Night Work (with WBTB)*
> 
> Here I’m hesitating between MILD and SSILD. I have already tried MILD for a very long time with (almost) no result. Also I find it very boring after a number of attempts... However I am aware of the fact that some techniques need time to start producing results, and I have heard a lot about MILD’s reliability. 
> 
> So yeah, and the other technique is SSILD. It has also been very successful for a lot of people, so I think I’ll give it a try. I will see if it works better than MILD for me.



I love SSILD due to all of the lucid dreams it has helped me to achieve! I feel the day work was crucial as well and that day work certainly adds to your level of awareness and lucidity which can help you get over the hump between non lucid dreams and lucid ones. With SSILD and any WBTB method, you will want to find the right time to wake up (around 4.5 or 6 hours), how long to stay up (5 to 30 minutes perhaps). You may even want to practice the cycles a few times during the day before the first time you try. That way you can go through the progression of the cycles more automatically, making it easier to do that evening without thinking too much (clear your head of any waking thoughts, maybe writing down any items that pop up that want your attention so that you can address them during the day). The timing of waking up and staying up has to do with finding the right balance of awakeness/sleepiness so that you can go to sleep fairly soon after performing the cycles, but also not so sleepy that you fall asleep at the beginning of performing the cycles.





> Oh and something very important I forgot to mention: here in France we have school on Saturday too (lucky us huh), and it starts every day at 8. So I guess I’ll try and go to bed sooner (at 9 maybe) to have time to do a proper WBTB. It might be tricky because I have to study a lot too. Will see how it goes, but attempting a DILD technique only once a week is not what I had in mind.



I often don't try when I have something important the next day, or even a game so my physical performance is at a good level, but I do sometimes go to bed early to allow myself to still do a WBTB with SSILD and still have plenty of sleep.

Nice set of goals! 





> So there we have it, my first post ever! Yay! I think I’ll post my progress weekly, as there probably won’t be much to say every day…
> 
> Thanks!



There is definitely no requirement to post everyday but if you want to quickly jot down a daily (one sentence or more) dream summary or anything that you did that night and during the day towards your practice, I think it could be invaluable for you to look back at. I am often going back over my notes to see what I was doing during hot streaks and dry streaks to maximize my efforts.

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## Centroid

Hello fogelbise! 
Thanks for your very helpful input!
So I will look into RRC and start increasing my self-awareness. Btw, how often should one do this? Hourly, all day long, every time I think about it, or every time I see something weird? Also, I didn't quite get what you said about putting my finger on my nose. How does it help with self-awareness? lol
SSILD sounds great too, I'll keep a log of wake-up time and stay-up time to find the right balance. Already practiced the cycles and feeling confident! I think I'll actually do it twice (or why not three times?) tonight, as I'm on holidays and can wake up late. I also started reading the SSILD thread, lots of interesting stuff in there!

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## Centroid

Update:

-Performed SSILD only once (forgot the first time) 

-The timing was perfect I think (5 hours in while staying up no more than 5 minutes) because I was able to finish the cycles, and fall asleep very quickly afterwards

-Recalled a very long and vivid dream, which sort of turned into a pretty cool movie

Overall: 

-I'm pretty happy of this dream, definitely something that I will keep for a long time (maybe even someday make an actual movie out of it!).

-I believe SSILD was behind the vividness of the dream, this technique had great potential for me if it also induces lucid dreams! I'll keep doing it, maybe twice next time if I remember  :tongue2: 

Anyway, very happy about this night.

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## fogelbise

> So I will look into RRC and start increasing my self-awareness. Btw, how often should one do this? Hourly, all day long, every time I think about it, or every time I see something weird? Also, I didn't quite get what you said about putting my finger on my nose. How does it help with self-awareness? lol
> SSILD sounds great too, I'll keep a log of wake-up time and stay-up time to find the right balance. Already practiced the cycles and feeling confident! I think I'll actually do it twice (or why not three times?) tonight, as I'm on holidays and can wake up late. I also started reading the SSILD thread, lots of interesting stuff in there!



-I have a truly random alarm as part of the awoken app (android, there must be similar random alarms for apple devices) that I set to go off 12 random times between 8am and 10pm, so averaging a little over 1 hour between, but choose what works for you. I find that this is more reliable than remembering to do them when you see something weird, especially in the beginning, though if you can remember without an alarm many times throughout the day that is even better for prospective memory.

-The finger on the nose thing. When you read about RRC, one of the things Sageous wants you to do is really stop and look around in wonder (& more). So try to stop right now and look around you perhaps in wonder that this could be a dream right now, or his idea of your effect on the people and things around you and them on you. Now repeat the same thing but this time put your finger on the tip of your nose as you look around and see if you get a kind of paradigm shift. If it does nothing for you, ignore the idea or try it later, it isn't part of the official RRC.

-I suggest if you do the cycles multiple times (for example, a set of cycles per awakening, every 90 minutes or so) that you don't start until after 4.5 hours (in case you meant starting at bed time).





> I'm pretty happy of this dream, definitely something that I will keep for a long time (maybe even someday make an actual movie out of it!).
> 
> -I believe SSILD was behind the vividness of the dream, this technique had great potential for me if it also induces lucid dreams! I'll keep doing it, maybe twice next time if I remember 
> 
> Anyway, very happy about this night.



Awesome!! Let us know if you put it in story or movie script form!! Very nice result!! 

I think I mentioned this already, but I do suggest keeping a log here or in your own notes of what works for you and the various day and night activities you are doing during a given timeframe in order to maximize your results going forward. When I was newer to SSILD I only thought about the lucid benefit, but the vivid dreams benefit definitely makes sense to me now.

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## FryingMan

Hi Centroid (bonjour!) and welcome to the DILD class!  Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate it.

I'm right at the end of a reeeeeally long day and approaching a huge important milestone at work.  I promise I will give you some solid feedback when I can, it might be a couple of days.

In summary, I remember very well the "What should I do?  There are so many options!" feeling.    It's not necessarily a feeling that goes away!  But over time you will settle eventually into what works well for you.

I'm a really big LaBerge fan.   Doing nothing but what was in Exploring The World Of Lucid Dreaming got me my first LD, a DILD, one month to the day I began the practice.  

What LaBerge says to do:

+ set intention (repeat each of these phrases to yourself for a while) at bed-time, that:
    1) "I have interesting and meaningful dreams"
    2) "I remember my dreams"
    3) "I notice wakings, remain still, and recall my dreams"

+ Build recall and keep a DJ.   Every day I think especially to get started.  Look forward to it.    I have gotten lucid more than once when I did my DJ entry for the previous night right before bedtime.  Really gets you thinking about dreaming!

+ Daytime awareness: intention/reflection moments, and RCs

+ Prospective memory exercises: work up to multiple targets during the day

These things are all described in detail in Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming.

Great to have you here!    Never give up, dreaming and lucid dreaming is one of the most rewarding activities in life.  The more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it!

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## Centroid

Hi FryingMan! 

Please don't worry about it, I'm not in a rush or anything, and my journey to my first lucid dream may take some time anyway...

Thanks for the tips!

I've also tried following LaBerge, but without much success after 2 months, so I gave up. The book is amazing nonetheless. Now I'm more in a self-awareness + SSILD kind of routine.

About intentions (and affirmations), I never really thought anything about them, and have always regarded it as an unreliable and unscientific kind of thing. Also I have tried multiple times making myself wake up after about 5 hours of sleep with intention, but it has never worked... Maybe my brain isn't very influenced by this, I don't know. I'll still try those you wrote for a couple of nights, just to see...

Daytime awareness is important, I agree. Btw, are you more into sensory awareness or self-awareness? Of course, both with reflection + RC.

And is it still worth it to train my prospective memory if I'm not going to use MILD? Actually, I take it back, maybe it's good to have two available techniques to use after WBTB, because if I'm on a dry spell, switching to another could help.

Vogelbise: I'll try and remember naturally without an alarm for now, will see how it goes. Also, I think I'll save the finger on the nose thing for later, I'm still very confused...

Now going to bed with some dream recall intentions, will wake up, attempt DEILD if the awakening is natural, DJ, SSILD, and go back to sleep, all of this at least twice. I hope I get some sick dreams tonight!  :smiley: 

Anyway, thanks a bunch for helping us out here guys! I really like this workbook idea, it's the quickest way to progress in my opinion!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Hi Centroid!
   One very important part of LD practice is a continual and honest self-evaluation: are you doing you best in your practice?   Are you meeting your short-term goals?

So if you say you were following LaBerge for two months, yet were not doing either intention-setting or prospective memory exercises, then....were you *really* following him?   I'm not trying to be critical here, just trying to help you reach a valid conclusion about the practice you were following at first.

I think it's important to do what feels right to you.   But I might suggest giving the "pure LaBerge" approach another shot for a while.    Particularly focusing on dream recall and setting bed-time intention.    If you have a deep-down suspicion that "ah, this intention stuff is nonsense" then it is possible that it will likely not work for you.    LDing is a purely mental discipline, and so state of mind comes in to play in a very major way: beliefs and attitudes have a major influence on our thoughts and dreams.

As for intention wakings, maybe you haven't made them important enough to you.   You have to be really really excited about the notion of noticing wakings in order to practice recalling the dreams from the recent sleep cycle.   It should feel similar to having a critical test at school or an important flight you can't miss the next morning.  In these situations, we find ourselves noticing all the wakings during the night and constantly checking the time.    I think it is not practical to maintain such strong intention over long periods of time (I myself stopped after about my first 3 months, it was pretty tiring), but it is a great way in the beginning to get a solid dream recall practice started.

Yes!  Prospective memory development is IMHO extremely beneficial.  LaBerge is right IMO that one major key to getting lucid in dreams is remembering that you want to get lucid, while in the dream state.   Another benefit to prospective memory training is that it activates your brain's goal-seeking center, which additionally can help with the intention wakings and remembering to reach for dream recall immediately upon every waking.

I personally try to follow a path of mindful (self-aware) attention and reflection.  It's a matter of emphasis: giving some attention to one's surroundings and sensory experience is part of that, I believe.   But just a part: I always try in include a strong sense of self.    One of my favorite things to do is to just STOP at random points throughout the day, fully immerse myself in the experience of the present moment and say, "*I*....am *HERE*....*NOW*...having this experience...what's my state?  <RC>...." or something close to that.

I try to avoid auto-pilot mode, or at least to quickly acknowledge when I've slipped into auto-pilot.   Always look for opportunities to remain mindful when doing repetitive, habitual things.   Like unlocking the door and getting into my car, putting the keys in the ignition, all this I tend to do without any thought to what I'm doing.     

In dreams, especially once you get your dream recall built up a bit more, you'll notice that we tend to be propelled forwards into acting or reacting without much thought.  If instead you can build a strong sense of mindfulness/self-awareness/critical reflection, you will start noticing and acknowledging what you're experiencing, and can take a moment of thought before entering into action.   Having that little pause to reflect is often the difference between lucidity and non-lucidity.   The opportunities are small, so we must become fine-tuned to noticing their appearance.

Any thoughts like "this is different," "that is strange,"  "hey look at that!", strong emotions like anger or fear or (heh) attraction/excitement, are all signposts prodding us to pay attention and to reflect and perhaps get lucid.

It also helps to practice thought patterns during the day that include dreaming.  Things like "If I were dreaming right now, I'd fly to the roof of that building over there...<RC>...".   The more you do that, the more likely it is that you'll have these thoughts in dreams.  My last LD was in fact exactly one of these: "If I were dreaming right now...HEY, I think I AM!  <RC>, woohoo!"    Another similar one is the recognition that "at any time, at any conscious moment, I could actually be in the dream state" (which is true!   About 11% of our conscious experiences are in the dream state).   I've had LDs from those kinds of thoughts, too.

I don't want to overload you with things to do, but I personally found one of the most profound differences in my dreaming experience came from simply paying attention during the day, creating "memory markers" like: "I will remember *this* moment tonight when I review my day in the evening" (also a form of intention).  At the end of the day, do a day review of the memories of the day's experiences, with special attention to recalling these marker moments.  Just like at the end of the night, we do a review of the night's dream experiences.   Making this a common practice I think helps our overall dreaming and dream recall.

When performing your RCs, try to foster a genuine curiosity and skepticism about your state: do not every assume that you are awake (but also never do anything that would be dangerous in waking life without first thoroughly determining your state).  If an RC indicates awake, do not think "I am not dreaming," rather think  "hmm, well I *will* be dreaming tonight, and I'll notice it and get lucid|!"   Also, take the opportunity to really slow down when you perform your RCs and think about the result.   Did you give it enough attention?    I reached a time where I was doing RCs in dreams but ignored the result even when the result indicating that I was dreaming!   The antidote was slowing down and really concentrating on the RC, and that problem hasn't happened since.

Well there is a more detailed response!     I'd like to echo fogelbise's wishes that you younger practitioners stick with the practice: do not quit, and you will have a long life full of amazing dreams, lucid and non-lucid both.   Find a way to work the awareness/attention in to your busy lives, and you'll find yourself getting lucid in dreams more and more!

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## Centroid

Hey! Damn, I didn't expect so much that quick. Thanks for the comprehensive feedback! It took some time to absorb all of this.

Ok, you got me, I did neither... Although I just might reconsider my opinion on bedtime intentions, because I had quite some interesting dreams last night, after repeating intentions before bed. But it's obviously too early to draw a conclusion on this. I will keep making these intentions, maybe throw in some lucid affirmations to make it MILD? Or is it better to focus solely on dream recall for now as you have already mentioned?

So by improving my prospective memory, in theory intentions become more reliable? I will try and mix it up with daytime awareness, by becoming aware of myself and of the present moment (and past, nod to Sageous' RRC, also maybe on gravity too, why not, nod to Hukif) every time I see a pre-selected object or event. I think my day work will consist of this (aiming for ~10 times a day). What do you guys think? Is it maybe concentrating too many elements together (self-awareness, present and past (RRC), with Gravity RC, and of course the actual RC (nose-plug) at the end) which would diminish their efficiency? What to remove, if necessary? Maybe Gravity RC isn't essential, but I really feel like doing it, if only for a few minutes every hour. 

Also, I like your idea of memory markers, very interesting. Will do that too  :tongue2: 

About techniques to become lucid, you mentioned earlier that I should focus solely on dream recall. But it seems to me that this would be wasting the opportunity to already begin trying out and getting used to techniques at the same time, and already starting to actively pursue lucid dreaming. My day work will try and improve my prospective memory, so I think I'll mix in MILD along with dream recall intentions before bed. And when I wake up to go to the toilet, throw in some SSILD cycles. 

Now I'm feeling like I'm trying everything at once, but I really want to have my first LD  :tongue2:  I hope I won't be overwhelmed by all this, and I'm not sure I'll be able to keep up all that day work when school starts again in a week...

Now I also realize I'm very flexible in terms of what I want to practice and what I feel can work. I'm sure this is mainly positive, but I feel it isn't that great, because it might make me change easily when results aren't as good as I expect them to be. Thus, if I stick to only a couple of things to see what works for me, I'm afraid I'll convince myself to end the experiment prematurely and try something else. This is why one of my short-term goals is to "figure out which techniques to use, day and night", as I want to figure out precisely the best things to do and stick to them no matter what. So yeah, I might be inclined to throw in too much, which could drain my motivation. I hope you get what I'm trying to say, I'm not the best at getting ideas across on paper.

Quick recap, the problem is:

Is it too much stuff to try? If so, what's the least important that I have said above which could be removed/reduced? Also, I don't really feel like forgetting modern techniques/ideas and going all-in pure LaBerge. As you can see, I'm COMPLETELY in the "What should I do? There are so many options!" mindset, but I just don't want to give up on anything, everything you and I said sounds so great!  :smiley: 

Thanks, I really hope you can clear this up, I'm lost here...

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## FryingMan

> Hey! Damn, I didn't expect so much that quick. Thanks for the comprehensive feedback! It took some time to absorb all of this.
> 
> Ok, you got me, I did neither... Although I just might reconsider my opinion on bedtime intentions, because I had quite some interesting dreams last night, after repeating intentions before bed. But it's obviously too early to draw a conclusion on this. I will keep making these intentions, maybe throw in some lucid affirmations to make it MILD? Or is it better to focus solely on dream recall for now as you have already mentioned?



I will continue to promote the LaBerge approach to beginners.  Nothing about this is "out of date" or "not modern" BTW.   When you hit a winning approach, it is ageless  :smiley: .

Intention/reflection moments: periodically throughout the day, stop whatever you're doing, and think what things would be like if you were currently in a dream: what would you possibly see, what would you feel or experience.   Imagine those things happening, see yourself noticing them, realizing they are dream-like, and getting lucid and going on to perform your lucid dream goals.

These I/R moments are in addition to shorter "RC moments" where you RC.  Remember, it is memory and awareness that comes first, followed by the RC.  The RC is just a tool to help you quickly determine your state.   It is the intention to notice your state, your memory to remind you that you want to notice your state, and your developing habit of paying attention to your experiences that ultimately cause the beginnings of lucidity.    "Habit/reflex RCs" in my experience don't happen that much in dreams.   People are different, though.   I'd never advocate doing so many RCs that you do them without awareness, I think that's counter-productive.





> So by improving my prospective memory, in theory intentions become more reliable?



Prospective memory helps you successfully establish and follow through with trigger events: the next time "X" happens, then I will "Y".    Yes they are related to intention, since you're setting intention to notice wakings, remain still and recall dreams.





> I will try and mix it up with daytime awareness, by becoming aware of myself and of the present moment (and past, nod to Sageous' RRC, also maybe on gravity too, why not, nod to Hukif) every time I see a pre-selected object or event. I think my day work will consist of this (aiming for ~10 times a day). What do you guys think? Is it maybe concentrating too many elements together (self-awareness, present and past (RRC), with Gravity RC, and of course the actual RC (nose-plug) at the end) which would diminish their efficiency? What to remove, if necessary? Maybe Gravity RC isn't essential, but I really feel like doing it, if only for a few minutes every hour.



do what you feel like doing.  Over time you will discover for yourself what you think is too much and what you think is beneficial.





> Also, I like your idea of memory markers, very interesting. Will do that too 
> 
> About techniques to become lucid, you mentioned earlier that I should focus solely on dream recall. But it seems to me that this would be wasting the opportunity to already begin trying out and getting used to techniques at the same time, and already starting to actively pursue lucid dreaming. My day work will try and improve my prospective memory, so I think I'll mix in MILD along with dream recall intentions before bed. And when I wake up to go to the toilet, throw in some SSILD cycles.



You folks are all quite young and you have many decades of awesome dreaming in front of you assuming you never quit.    Use that intense desire to establish a regular, consistent practice schedule and *stick to it*.  

Note that my emphasis on dream recall is not just about "remembering your dreams" (which of course is critical, otherwise why bother, right?)   It's more about establishing what some of us call here "dream awareness:" meaning, awareness *of* our dreams.  Realizing that we *do* dream a lot, every night.  Realizing that any experience we're having MIGHT be in the dream state!   It's about establishing a strong, close connection with your dreams:  What do they "feel like" to you?  What happens there frequently?   Many times LDers get lucid just because they get "that dream feeling," not brought on by anything in particular, but with their general familiarity with the dream state and how it feels to them.





> Now I'm feeling like I'm trying everything at once, but I really want to have my first LD  I hope I won't be overwhelmed by all this, and I'm not sure I'll be able to keep up all that day work when school starts again in a week...



I remember the build-up to my first LD  :smiley: .  I SOOO wanted one.   And I got one!  Then two, then three, etc.  So will you!    Just maintain that strong interest, keep thinking about dreaming in general, and work on the fundamentals: attention, reflection, recall.    As long as you're doing that every day (and night!) on some way, your practice is sound.   Then you just over time make tweaks here and there and try different things and form your own ideas about what works for you.




> Now I also realize I'm very flexible in terms of what I want to practice and what I feel can work. I'm sure this is mainly positive, but I feel it isn't that great, because it might make me change easily when results aren't as good as I expect them to be. Thus, if I stick to only a couple of things to see what works for me, I'm afraid I'll convince myself to end the experiment prematurely and try something else. This is why one of my short-term goals is to "figure out which techniques to use, day and night", as I want to figure out precisely the best things to do and stick to them no matter what. So yeah, I might be inclined to throw in too much, which could drain my motivation. I hope you get what I'm trying to say, I'm not the best at getting ideas across on paper.



Figuring out what works for you is *not* a short-term goal!   This is a long-haul hobby: we measure progress in months and years, not days/weeks.  Again, as long as you are paying attention to your experiences, reflecting on them (is this dream like?), and working on remembering them, thinking about dreaming, setting strong intention to get lucid, you're pointed in the right direction.




> Quick recap, the problem is:
> 
> Is it too much stuff to try? If so, what's the least important that I have said above which could be removed/reduced? Also, I don't really feel like forgetting modern techniques/ideas and going all-in pure LaBerge. As you can see, I'm COMPLETELY in the "What should I do? There are so many options!" mindset, but I just don't want to give up on anything, everything you and I said sounds so great! 
> 
> Thanks, I really hope you can clear this up, I'm lost here...



Ah, I know how you feel.   I can't tell you how many times I had epiphanies where I realized, "AH, NOW I KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO LUCID DREAM, IT'S JUST <something>!".   Then I'd realize, well, wait, <something else> is also really important!

The reason I love LaBerge is that he lays out a complete, step-by-step recipe.  It's easy to follow, and it's not too much.   I'd start there, then add/subtract once you get more experience.

It all begins with becoming more and more familiar with your dreams.    Sure, you can work in daytime awareness at the same time, I encourage that in fact.

Pay attention to your waking life, and pay attention to your dreaming life.    Critically reflect on all your experiences, and practice remembering them later on, the more, the better.

----------


## Centroid

> The reason I love LaBerge is that he lays out a complete, step-by-step recipe. It's easy to follow, and it's not too much. I'd start there, then add/subtract once you get more experience.
> 
> It all begins with becoming more and more familiar with your dreams. Sure, you can work in daytime awareness at the same time, I encourage that in fact.
> 
> Pay attention to your waking life, and pay attention to your dreaming life. Critically reflect on all your experiences, and practice remembering them later on, the more, the better.



This, is AWESOME! Thanks FryingMan, you rock! I'm completely convinced, and will re-read ETWOLD in detail, and most importantly follow this quote. I think I'll print it out in big and stick it in my room  :smiley: 

Damn, you're good.

Thanks again! (Attention, Reflection, Recall, all the way!)


*QUICK UPDATE
*
I just napped (for one hour, didn't sleep great that night, damn mosquito), and at the end of this pretty long dream (well, one hour long, I guess), I look at my brother and say, 'Wanna lucid dream bro?', and then I wake up. So, does this count as a lucid dream? Pleeeeease? lol

----------


## FryingMan

Aw, shucks  :smiley: .   Thanks for the nice sentiments!

The definition of a lucid dream is pretty simple: it is a dream where you know you're dreaming.    Awareness (both in the waking and in the dream states) moves on a continuous spectrum: sometimes very low, sometimes very high, but all share an underlying acknowledgement, however brief at times, that you are dreaming.   So, if you can say you knew you were dreaming, yes, that would be a lucid dream!    Personally, I don't count a dream as lucid unless I have either a solid thought acknowledging the dream state, or I say out loud something like "I am dreaming".     There are semi-lucid dreams as well where you know you're in a different kind of experience than a standard waking one, where you maybe have and use powers (flying, magic, mind control, etc.) but where you do not go all the way to concluding that you're dreaming, I also do not count these as lucid dreams, but I'm perhaps stricter than most.     

But who cares what I or others say?   Really the most important thing is that you *enjoy your dreams*.   Don't obsess about counts or LDs (easy for me to say, right?  I've already had my first...  :smiley:  ), just really enjoy all your experiences, both waking and dreaming.   That will lead to a very happy life!

(But don't worry, from what you write, I think you are very very close to your first LD!)

Even if not perhaps fully lucid, it is *very close*.  Dreams about lucid dreaming are typically the very last step right before lucid dreams.   Check the beginning pages of my DILD workbook and you can see the progression as it took place with me.   Right before my first LD I got non-lucid dreams about LDing (saying, "<some guy> I heard is a lucid dreamer!" and "watching" a neighbor having a lucid dream [I could see her dream appear on a board!]).

I would also recommend playing "RC" games with your brother (this may be in LaBerge as well if I remember correctly): try to say or do dream-like things to get the other to RC, kind of like an ongoing game of tag.     Maybe using an agreed-upon "RC word of the day" when you hear that word you must RC.   Use your imagination.

----------


## FryingMan

I also recommend "A Course In Lucid Dreaming", a companion book to Exploring The World Of Lucid Dreaming, which gives step-by-step exercises to do.  It's not so easy to find now, I have a copy, PM me if you'd like one.   His record keeping is maybe a bit too much, but the main thing is he lays out in outline format exactly how to do each exercise.

I'd forgotten about "reminder:" put something near your bed that you can see easily that reminds you about dreaming, recalling dreams, and being lucid.

Time for me to re-read as well!

----------


## Pornocrates

Hey Centroid, nice workbook!

I'm sure you'll have your first LD soon!





> I would also recommend playing "RC" games with your brother (this may be in LaBerge as well if I remember correctly): try to say or do dream-like things to get the other to RC, kind of like an ongoing game of tag.     Maybe using an agreed-upon "RC word of the day" when you hear that word you must RC.   Use your imagination.



This is really really great! It's perfect that you and your brother are both into LDing! Back when I was studying in Germany (Erasmus program) I had a really good American friend really interested into LDing, we weren't really organized or thorough in our practice but I'm sure that the fact that we talked about what we wanted to do helped me having LDs!

Try the "game of lucid tag" with your brother and give us some feedback  :Cheeky: 

You're both making me want to read ETWOLD once more!

----------


## Centroid

Hey Pornocrates,

Thanks for the support, I can feel it waiting for me tonight, hiding under my bed... I hope the same for you!  :smiley: 

I read through your workbook too, it's really interesting and helpful to see what other people are going through, and the tips they get.

I will look into doing 'lucid tag', it seems fun but weird too... Will see what my brother thinks.

One day we should do something, since we both live in Paris. Maybe like organizing a lucid dreaming event, or taking part in one, dunno if they have this here. But not now, I have a French oral test coming soon, and I want to finish my third trimester with style  :smiley:  

And why are we talking in English, hein? Mdr  :smiley: 

FryingMan: Hi, I already downloaded on my Kindle, Lucid Dreaming: A Concise Guide or something like that, also by Stephen LaBerge. It's short (90 pages) but to the point and with clear instructions, though maybe not as complete as the 'Course'. So I have all I need, thanks anyway!

I'll make a quick recap of my current LD practice for my future self, who will of course not need to look here, being a master at LDing and all  :smiley: 

Day work:
Doing 1+2+3 about 10 times a day,
1) Attention (mostly SA)
2) Reflection (with RRC + RC)
3) Intention (with DDA as well)

Night work:
-Before bed: intentions about waking up and recalling my dreams (maybe adding in MILD for lucidity later, but I don't want to make the intents weaker)
-At every waking: write down my dreams and stay up (no more than 10 min, Sensei's Micro-WBTB)
-Then proceed with SSILD, but not spending too much time cycling as to not lose sleep

fogelbise: Hey, I know you have some experience (and success I think) with SSILD, I just wanted to know (curiosity) how many LDs you had with it, how mostly (caught FAs, spontaneous DILD, WILD, DEILD), and after how long? And did you follow precisely what is written in the official tutorial, or did you customize it in any way? Also, I read about how Cosmic Iron could DEILD at will when waking after doing cycles, by allowing your head to sink into your pillow. Do you know what he is talking about? Thanks.

MY FIRST LD WILL BE TONIGHT!!! YOU HEAR ME, SUBCONSCIOUS, TONIGHT!!!

----------


## fogelbise

> fogelbise: Hey, I know you have some experience (and success I think) with SSILD, I just wanted to know (curiosity) how many LDs you had with it, how mostly (caught FAs, spontaneous DILD, WILD, DEILD), and after how long? And did you follow precisely what is written in the official tutorial, or did you customize it in any way? Also, I read about how Cosmic Iron could DEILD at will when waking after doing cycles, by allowing your head to sink into your pillow. Do you know what he is talking about? Thanks.



Sure. I got my first adult LD after performing SSILD. It was after 2 weeks of practicing various things and to answer your question, I have probably had somewhere around 350 LD's that I attribute to SSILD. Mostly spontaneous DILDs, but also a fair number of caught FAs, WILDs and DEILDs but most of those came later with more experience. Yes, I did start by precisely following what was written but I have been using a customized version for quite a long time and still do. I don't think I have ever used his head sinking into the pillow technique specifically but if you can connect with it, I am sure it can work for you too. I am a big fan of SSILD so let me know if you have any other questions on it.

----------


## Centroid

I will start doing a recap of every single day and the night that follows, as well as my thoughts and worries, to keep better track of my lucid dreaming practice. The day mentioned is the day where I do my day work, not the day I wake up. So: Day work --> Night work --> Workbook recap using the date of the day work

01/05/16 Recap

Day work:
I was trying out being self-aware all-day style (ADSA?) to see how it works out. Very difficult, had to keep reminding myself all the time. Maybe that's what's good, the fact that I'm always thinking about how I wasn't doing it and how I had to do it now. Probably. Anyway, I also questioned my reality with RRC+RC 10x, so that went pretty well. No DDA+intent though. I didn't find it very easy/natural and always forgot to do it.

Night work:
At bedtime I set intent to wake up after 5 hours, and I woke up 3.5 hours later. Not bad for a first attempt, but it was still too early for SSILD because I fell asleep before I could finish the first long cycle... And then I woke up for real... No LD, and no dreams recalled at all either. Very weird, usually I always have at least a couple of fragments. Will re-read FryingMan's dream recall post.

A thought I had: I read in another thread that the best awareness to have is self-awareness, but critical awareness is important too. So self-awareness all-day (with RRC) I already am working on, and critical awareness would be reflection right? So, questioning reality with RC? I was thinking of doing instead of that an ADRC (All Day Reality Check), which would for me be Gravity RC. So going back to the bare bones of day work: 
-Attention = ADSA
-Reflection = ADRC
-Recall = RRC (good for SA too)
So I would focus on SA with Gravity RC. I think maybe prioritizing SA, but checking out my weight for a few minutes when I usually reflect about reality (10x a day). This sounds good to me, it's something I would be glad to do, and it also follows FryingMan's theory (kind of). 

And fogelbise, how did you customize SSILD? Did it work better than before? Give me your secret please  :smiley:  thanks!

----------


## FryingMan

Yes I imagine "critical awareness" is the reflection I mention so much.   It's where you're thinking about your experience and analyzing it to try to determine your state ("is this weird?"   "Is this a waking location?").

I think it's good to keep critical reflection "general".   By all means, try out an ADRC like gravity if you wish, but also keep looking for the unexpected, strange, new, odd, surprising, emotional, etc. in *everything* you experience.

----------


## Centroid

> I think it's good to keep critical reflection "general".   By all means, try out an ADRC like gravity if you wish, but also keep looking for the unexpected, strange, new, odd, surprising, emotional, etc. in *everything* you experience.



Yes, will keep that in mind. Thanks! Making my day work is currently summed up by: ADSA (aware of myself internally + RRC) + ADRC (Gravity RC) + Critical Mindset
I like writing down exactly what I need to do, it makes me more motivated (I can't say I'm unsure what to be doing so I don't do it out of laziness), and there's maybe some OCD involved too...

Another thing: What I like to do, is once in a while retrace my steps in an imaginary map, going through every general location I had gone to that day, maybe an event or two for each to confirm I'm not inventing it, until I arrive at my bed. It's kind of what Sageous' RRC is about, but I find this "cleaner", haha. But I'm wondering if this actually does something to increase my SA...

Also, while I was looking at threads here, one lead to the other, and I came across this, 2 years ago:
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ta-twotld.html
I was wondering:
1) Is there anything new or worthwhile in there?
2) Should I try out the exercises?
3) Is the book actually coming out?

Thanks  :smiley:

----------


## fogelbise

> Day work:
> I was trying out being self-aware all-day style (ADSA?) to see how it works out. Very difficult, had to keep reminding myself all the time. Maybe that's what's good, the fact that I'm always thinking about how I wasn't doing it and how I had to do it now. Probably. Anyway, I also questioned my reality with RRC+RC 10x, so that went pretty well.



On SA and RRCs this recent post from Sageous is very good and it inspired me to achieve quite a good level of self awareness yesterday. That stepped up self awareness may have been responsible for my spontaneous DILD last night (no induction used last night). Here's his post : http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2193957





> And fogelbise, how did you customize SSILD? Did it work better than before? Give me your secret please  thanks!



I'd say my customization worked better for me, but feel free to take parts of the original and my variation to create something that works best for you. My variation with the cycles is to start with a really brief warm-up. I do two breaths while focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back). This "warm-up" quickly reminds me what I am using for each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD. It is super quick and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy and having trouble getting the three points of focus correct. (I usually no longer need this warm up step, but it may be useful until the process becomes more automatic or natural).  Here's all I usually use now: I combine the 3 senses into each breath. I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I complete the process of breathing out. When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep.





> Another thing: What I like to do, is once in a while retrace my steps in an imaginary map, going through every general location I had gone to that day, maybe an event or two for each to confirm I'm not inventing it, until I arrive at my bed. It's kind of what Sageous' RRC is about, but I find this "cleaner", haha. But I'm wondering if this actually does something to increase my SA...



This sounds good, especially if you can visualize yourself and your interactions in each event.





> Also, while I was looking at threads here, one lead to the other, and I came across this, 2 years ago:
> http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ta-twotld.html
> I was wondering:
> 1) Is there anything new or worthwhile in there?
> 2) Should I try out the exercises?
> 3) Is the book actually coming out?



1) I really liked many of the exercises. Some of the exercises may look similar to others you may have come across but likely with a new twist which can really help you to get that much closer to the goals of such exercises. 2) You are juggling quite a bit, especially considering that gravity RC can be quite a challenge, but it sounds like you are up for the challenge. I would say go through them slowly when you feel like you have time to or when you are looking for new material to keep your mind on lucid dreaming. I still use exercise 3A quite a bit and I will often go back over some of the others. 3) Last I heard he was toying with the idea of a different book somewhat related book. He also created a website not geared towards lucid dreaming but which has a great release technique, which was a free short course last time I checked. I find the release technique there very helpful for multiple scenarios related to lucid dreaming. The exercise is so simple that it is mind blowing. Search his name if you are interested and let me know if you don't see it. I am not allowed to link directly to websites that may be selling something.

----------


## Habba

I've recently started he Gravity RC also, so you're not alone!

----------


## Centroid

> On SA and RRCs this recent post from Sageous is very good and it inspired me to achieve quite a good level of self awareness yesterday. That stepped up self awareness may have been responsible for my spontaneous DILD last night (no induction used last night). Here's his post : http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2193957



Very interesting read, thanks. He should definitely write a book  ::chuckle:: 





> I'd say my customization worked better for me, but feel free to take parts of the original and my variation to create something that works best for you. My variation with the cycles is to start with a really brief warm-up. I do two breaths while focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back). This "warm-up" quickly reminds me what I am using for each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD. It is super quick and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy and having trouble getting the three points of focus correct. (I usually no longer need this warm up step, but it may be useful until the process becomes more automatic or natural). Here's all I usually use now: I combine the 3 senses into each breath. I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I complete the process of breathing out. When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep.



Thanks for sharing, I like it! But I think I'll stick to the original version, until I have some more experience. Or not, I'll see. Damn, last night I simply slept through my alarm and couldn't attempt to SSILD  ::sad2::  I'll have to crank up the volume tonight I guess.





> 1) I really liked many of the exercises. Some of the exercises may look similar to others you may have come across but likely with a new twist which can really help you to get that much closer to the goals of such exercises. 2) You are juggling quite a bit, especially considering that gravity RC can be quite a challenge, but it sounds like you are up for the challenge. I would say go through them slowly when you feel like you have time to or when you are looking for new material to keep your mind on lucid dreaming. I still use exercise 3A quite a bit and I will often go back over some of the others. 3) Last I heard he was toying with the idea of a different book somewhat related book. He also created a website not geared towards lucid dreaming but which has a great release technique, which was a free short course last time I checked. I find the release technique there very helpful for multiple scenarios related to lucid dreaming. The exercise is so simple that it is mind blowing. Search his name if you are interested and let me know if you don't see it. I am not allowed to link directly to websites that may be selling something.



I think I'll stick to Self-Awareness + Gravity RC (+ Critical Mindset), all day long, it's hard enough as it is! 





> I've recently started he Gravity RC also, so you're not alone!



Thanks Habba, we're all in this together! Yay!  ::aphiusiscrazy::  But I think it's kind of risky going all in with Gravity RC, so that's why I also practice being self-aware, with SSILD at night for some lucids along the way too, you know. Actually, if I get good at Gravity RC, and start getting gravity-induced lucids, then I'll make SSILD being aware only of gravity, without sight, sound, or touch, to boost the success. One day, maybe in a couple of months, who knows if I even will have my first lucid dream  ::lol:: 


*03/05/16 RECAP*

Day work:
-I tried combining Gravity RC with Self-Awareness, its kind if difficult to do both at the same time, so I did Gravity RC, focusing on my legs, when walking, and Self-Awareness, while doing an activity that doesn't require walking. I'll try and keep that up today, will see how it goes. 
-I kind of like it actually, so I guess that's REALLY gonna help me stick to it.

Night work:
-Slept through my alarm. Will make it louder tonight, and intend to wake up when I go to sleep. 
-NO RECALL TODAY! Can you imagine that??? I woke up motionless with my mind completely blank. Will definitely make an effort reading dream recall threads, and intention at night, along with the intention to wake up to my alarm. Its maybe because I have gone to bed a bit later than I am used to (midnight instead of around 10:30). I'll try and go to bed sooner this time. 

Additional notes:
Not been lucid yet, but still motivated and confident. Its been almost two weeks though. BUT I WILL NOT GIVE UP. I WILL LUCID DREAM!  :Cheeky:

----------


## FryingMan

The thing about the ADRC is that the target you choose should really be something you notice in dreams on a regular basis.    Thinking about it a lot can induce the occurrence in dreams, though.   I had several occasions of acute gravity awareness (for me, always a feeling of being too light) after I'd done it for a little while.   

That's why Hukif says the target really should be personal for every practitioner, depending on what you notice how dreams feel like.

Argh, I do not like no recall days!   Usually that's a sign that there is stress going on in other areas of your life that is dominating your thoughts.    If you just stick to the practice, these will remain rare.   I myself have them from time to time, but probably somewhere around only 1% of nights.    

Two weeks is really just a drop in the bucket.   LD practice is a life-long pursuit.   If you continue you WILL get lucid, of that there is no doubt.   Probably very soon, but everyone's timetable is different.

A regular sleep schedule definitely helps recall, as does reaching for dreams as soon as you find yourself awake.

----------


## Centroid

> The thing about the ADRC is that the target you choose should really be something you notice in dreams on a regular basis.    Thinking about it a lot can induce the occurrence in dreams, though.   I had several occasions of acute gravity awareness (for me, always a feeling of being too light) after I'd done it for a little while.   
> 
> That's why Hukif says the target really should be personal for every practitioner, depending on what you notice how dreams feel like.



Thanks for the input!

Hmm, so do you think I should still keep trying Gravity RC, or maybe wait until my recall becomes better so that I can try and figure out my own target/RC? I mean, apart from gravity, what do you think could be used as an ADRC? Or did you mean where and how you focus for the feeling of gravity?

And yes, I am a bit stressed out these days (I should've started revising for this exam last week!). Maybe before bed I'll write down all of my worries, so that I can tell myself to forget about them, because I will be able to re-read them in the morning.

Also, FryingMan, do you any induction techniques at night (WBTB, MILD, SSILD), or not because of insomnia? So if not you only rely on day work?

I will lucid dream TONIGHT!!!
(Trying to pass the message on to my subconscious, trust me, I'm not weird, just ignore these assumptions, thanks)

----------


## Habba

> Hmm, so do you think I should still keep trying Gravity RC, or maybe wait until my recall becomes better so that I can try and figure out my own target/RC? I mean, apart from gravity, what do you think could be used as an ADRC? Or did you mean where and how you focus for the feeling of gravity?



I think you should carry on the Gravity RC, whether your dream recall is good or bad. We don't really pay attention to our weight in reality nor in dreams, right? So focusing on it in reality, it will show up in dreams eventually! I say go for it!

I see this also as a big part of self awareness. Since practising the RC I've been having more longer, vivid dreams. i had 6 dreams last night and I've been at lucid dreaming 2 months on the 12th.

Keep up the good work!

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## FryingMan

> Thanks for the input!
> 
> Hmm, so do you think I should still keep trying Gravity RC, or maybe wait until my recall becomes better so that I can try and figure out my own target/RC? I mean, apart from gravity, what do you think could be used as an ADRC? Or did you mean where and how you focus for the feeling of gravity?
> 
> And yes, I am a bit stressed out these days (I should've started revising for this exam last week!). Maybe before bed I'll write down all of my worries, so that I can tell myself to forget about them, because I will be able to re-read them in the morning.
> 
> Also, FryingMan, do you any induction techniques at night (WBTB, MILD, SSILD), or not because of insomnia? So if not you only rely on day work?
> 
> I will lucid dream TONIGHT!!!
> (Trying to pass the message on to my subconscious, trust me, I'm not weird, just ignore these assumptions, thanks)



Other ADRC possibilities include: blinking, breathing, dream feeling, location, objects, pretty much any aspect of your experience you can think of that you notice a lot.    I meant the first: realizing what you notice in dreams.

I mostly rely on day work, and bedtime intention.    I have had battles with insomnia in the past that took me quite a while to learn how to deal with (I worked a lot on relaxation).   I personally do not enjoy WBTB, but I still recognize that it is very effective.   I've done SSILD but with not any clear results (other than insomnia in the beginning, before I learned how to do it while simultaneously relaxing), so it is not my first choice.   Because I do less night work than I could, I get fewer lucids than I think I could if I did night work more consistently.    But I enjoy sleeping and dreaming through the night until morning  :smiley: .   Every once in  while I'll make a big push for night work and voice recording at each waking and that usually results in a batch of LDs.

p.s. I don't think it's weird, I have little talks with my SC as well, and give it a kick in the butt once in a while ("COME ON, TIME FOR A LD ALREADY, LET'S GO!")

----------


## Centroid

Okay, phew, my recall is back! I was thinking it had gone forever...

Anyway, I think I'll keep trying Gravity RC (Habba's fault haha), but still pay attention to my next dreams for another potential ADRC. Along with self-awareness and a critical mindset of course.

FryingMan, yes, I understand. I was wondering why your LD count was rather low compared to fogelbise, when both of you started at around the same time. But still, I would LOOOOVE to have 182 LDs! And I can't even get one... Sorry, I WILL. VERY SOON. Be careful, teacher. 


04/05/16 RECAP

Day work:
-a bit less consistent than the other days with self-awareness and gravity RC, because I was reading old DV threads all the time, and thinking a lot about LD induction.
-I still tried out my version of the RRC, and, well, the first time I do it is great, but in the following tries, I repeat what I did on the first try plus a bit more each time. So it gets repetitive and relies more on the memory of saying my backwards path than actually remembering it. So I see 2 solutions:
1- doing it only at the end of the day, from the present moment to the moment I woke up that day
2- doing it every hours, from the present moment to the moment I last did this exercise, an hour ago. If I don't move much, like when I'm at school, every two or three hours maybe

Night work:
-I was thinking my regular alarm wasn't enough to wake me up, so I put my phone alarm five minutes after the regular one. Turns out, I was right, only the phone woke me up. I'll give the non-working one to my brother.
-I stayed up for 10 minutes, 4.5 hours after I went to bed. I wanted to do SSILD, but I couldn't finish the short cycles. I think I kinda just drifted off... Tonight, I'll wake up 5.5 hours later, still staying up 10 minutes.
-Recall was good, one full dream and half of another one when I first woke up for WBTB, and then another full one when I woke up for real. I feel like intent at night was helpful.

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## FryingMan

Oh, I'm sure you will bypass me in no time  :smiley: .   Assuming you stick to it and don't quit.   I envy all you young beginners with your pliable, flexible brains!   I'm one of the few middle-aged adult beginners I know of who didn't also have LDs or was really into their dreams as a child.   Compared to most, I started fairly late in life.    Starting late, I have decades of mindlessness and autopilot behavior ingrained in my neural pathways and that I imagine will be a burden I'll have to just deal with pretty much forever.    Still, I'm pretty happy with my dreaming experiences and my DJ is full of amazing vivid & present dreams.   The LDs may average once per 5-6 days, but there are piles of non-lucids ever night...I do love dreaming!

Sticking to it is really important.   Fogelbise was of the "DV joining class" just before mine.   Of his class, I think he is just about the only one left, and of mine, I think I am just about the only one left.   Only a very small handful remain over time.    

Sageous says not to pay attention to counts, I tried ignoring it for a while but I found myself returning to it just as a way to keep tabs on my progress.   It's definitely better not to stress about it, and just concentrate on  the dream experiences you want to have.

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## Centroid

> Sticking to it is really important.   Fogelbise was of the "DV joining class" just before mine.   Of his class, I think he is just about the only one left, and of mine, I think I am just about the only one left.   Only a very small handful remain over time.



Wow, that's scary. Lucid dreaming is becoming an endangered skill  ::sad2::  Is this mostly because of the huge effort to reward ratio? Well, I won't quit, so yeah. What I just said right there will force me to stick to it  :Cheeky:  Thank you, teacher!  ::wink::

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## FryingMan

I think it's that people, especially young people these days, have very low tolerance for patience and very poor concentration skills.    Progress in LDing is measured in months and years, not hours and minutes (or days and weeks even).   It is definitely not a "instant gratification" hobby!   The rewards are huge, but the effort is also huge.   Lucid dreaming is not so much something you "do," it's more about changing your fundamental approach to life in general.

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## fogelbise

I have to applaud FryingMan. He is way better at dream recall than I am. Many of my non-lucid dreams tend to be more towards the fragmented end of the spectrum with memory gaps. He is also way better at putting concepts into words and at getting down to the essence of those concepts. We bounce ideas off of each other and he has been helpful in my growth. I honestly feel that when he finds a personal, consistent solution to the insomnia accompanying his night time induction that he mentioned above, that he is going to see incredible results. (A consistent sleep schedule helps too!) Even without that, I feel that his approach will eventually lead to lucid dreams most any night that he wants them, and that the same is possible for most anyone who sets their mind to it.  :smiley:  

It can be hard to imagine achieving some of the things that you see others achieving until you have achieved something maybe a step or two down from where they are at. It is still hard for me to see myself getting to Hukif's level but then I remember where I started. When I started my adult LD practice, I wouldn't have believed with all of my heart that my current level was attainable. I remember asking some members that I respect if nightly LD's were possible and their response led me to believe that they thought that anyone claiming that was exaggerating. Though I haven't achieved "nightly" LD's, it wasn't until I had LD's 6 nights in a row that I truly believed that nightly LD's were attainable at some point (looking at my notes, February 2016, it would have been 11 straight nights if not for one night off). And for a scientific explanation of how it could be possible, check out neuroplasticity.

On the subject of what happens to many of our DV members over time, much of it I would guess is what FryingMan pointed to. I wanted to add that I think there are also a fair number of people that have just continued their practices on their own. Sometimes I will check the profile for people that used to participate more in the forums here and see that they did pop in somewhat recently. Maybe they browsed the forums and perhaps they saw discussions that inevitably repeat here and had felt like they were not seeing anything new. I do often notice that some of the more interesting threads will draw some long time members out from behind the curtain. I will see names I haven't seen before or haven't seen in a while and look at their join date and see they that have been members for quite a while. Some great lucid dreamers disappear from this forum for months or even years at a time. Some of these members may not update their LD count or have, over the years, lost track of how many they've had by not keeping records. I think that overall lucid dreaming is growing, though it is still largely in it's infancy.

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## Centroid

Hey,

So, school starts again tomorrow, and I am going to be extremely busy and stressed out for at least the next two weeks, so I probably wont be posting anything. After that, things will slow down and get a bit better. But exactly one month from this day, I will be on holidays!!! So thats gonna be (almost) three months of intense lucid training. 

My sleep schedule is probably gonna be like:
-want to go to bed at 10
-still have work and go to bed at 11
-10 to 60 minutes of insomnia
-wake up at 7
It's been EXACTLY like this for the past year or so. 

What do you think are the MOST important things that I will regret not doing during these 2-5 weeks? Ill try and stick to DJing (its important and fun), but with tags only.

Thanks

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## FryingMan

> What do you think are the MOST important things that I will regret not doing during these 2-5 weeks? I’ll try and stick to DJing (it’s important and fun), but with tags only.
> Thanks



Well, you said you're going to maintain the DJ...but: I recommend never taking a vacation from dream recall.   Always reach for dream memories the very moment you wake up, every single time you wake up.

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## Centroid

> Well, you said you're going to maintain the DJ...but: I recommend never taking a vacation from dream recall.   Always reach for dream memories the very moment you wake up, every single time you wake up.



Good point! Thanks! 

But then would it be ok not DJing these weeks, and simply recall the dream? Or did I just call upon me the wrath of dreamviews?  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

No wrath from here!   But consistency yields results.  I think the most important thing is really reaching for those dream memories upon waking, and DJing helps to accomplish that.    This isn't boot camp and we're not going to yell at you, what you do is up to you.    I personally recommend finding a way to work LD practice into daily life, whatever is going on in your life.   Of course at times you have to give your attention to other things, only you can decide which goals and responsibilities are the most important to you at any particular time.

----------


## Centroid

Hey there! Long time no see...
So, weekly recap!

RECAP (I won't bother with the date because it's written on top of my post anyway, smart huh?  :smiley:  )

Day work:
-Self-Awareness went ok, always aware of my presence and its interaction with everything.
-Have tried hard avoiding auto-pilot mode, moderate success.
-Gravity RC still up and running, not always actively focusing on it, but trying to keep it permanently on the back of my mind.
-I have kind of merged Self-Awareness and Gravity RC, to make it simpler, because I'm always deciding which one every time I think about it. So I focus on my *Presence*, which includes the self (Self-Awareness) and then the physical presence (mostly about its interaction with gravity, so Gravity RC too). I'm happy with this, easier to remember doing too.

Night work:
-I slept 7 hours a night instead of 9, the only difference tbh is that I'm irritated when I get up.
-Dream recall, getting better. The dream-scenes I remember are much longer, maybe ~20 minutes instead of ~10 (hard to say, really). I also recall at least one of these scenes every time I wake up, so 2-3 a night.
-No induction techniques, because I didn't want to lose any more sleep 


Ideas:

I was reading http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ramblings.html the other day, and going through Sensei's posts, I was really interested in his dual awareness idea (General Dream Awareness and State Awareness). 

My dream awareness is already getting better with dream recall. But I still need to improve my sleep schedule and cut down stress, otherwise I know LDing will be harder.

I'm thinking about lucid dreaming a lot, and doing "presence checks" throughout the day (Self-Awareness + Gravity RC), so this should increase state awareness. Maybe a mantra too, I'll talk about this a bit later.


But I haven't talked about this week's results! Because last night I thought in a dream: "Hey, I'm lucid! That means I can fire my favorite gun!" And I summon an old ugly gun and start shooting stuff. Then I wake up. So this person wasn't me because I do not like that kind of western-style gun. Also, I have not noticed that I was dreaming, only lucid, as if being lucid was like a state or mode, video game style, if you get what I mean. 

How did I get this experience?
Day work
-3 weeks of self-awareness and Gravity RC 
-3 weeks of recording dreams
-3 weeks thinking a lot about lucid dreaming and reading old threads at DV
Night work
-Natural WBTB of 25 minutes after 7 hours of sleep
-Read ETWOLD during that WBTB
-Did some MILD, by falling asleep repeating 'I'm dreaming', and visualizing myself lucid (flying + telekinesis)

I believe this experience was largely due to MILD, and helped a lot by the day awareness work I was doing. But MILD gave me a false lucid, I think because 'I'm dreaming' doesn't make me think of the dream, just of being lucid. Maybe I should use 'this is a dream', might make more sense to my dream self. Also, I have already tried MILD for a month or so last year by saying 'when I'm dreaming, I will realize that I am dreaming', with very little success. So I think this mantra isn't very good for me, too long and hard to get across maybe. I'll try 'this is a dream next time'. 

Also, I was thinking of having a mantra to repeat during the day too, like Sensei. Maybe the same as in my MILD, 'this is a dream'. This should be a huge boost to state awareness, all I need now is general dream awareness (with better recall).

Another hard week coming with school, several big tests etc. I think I need to keep doing day awareness work, but prioritize sleeping enough and reducing stress (I'm extremely stressed during the week, most of my dreams then are of exams). To reduce stress I'll study more, but by going to bed early I sacrifice studying time... So I just need to be as efficient as I can, studying all the time. I don't think I'll be able to come here at DV very often. But in 4 weeks I'm on holidays for 3 months!

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## Centroid

This morning I had three deams where lucid dreaming was mentioned, after MILD ('this is a dream' + visualizing myself using the force to levitate, and then flying around throwing fireballs haha). I'm getting super-close! So excited!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Excellent!   You are very close indeed!

----------


## fogelbise

I agree that you are getting close!  :smiley:  Keep up the progress (without neglecting your studies of course). For the dream mentioned in your post before your last post (the longer one), that does sound like a dream about lucid dreaming, but you might also want to read my reply to Habba that I just posted in his workbook: #132. It has some things to consider when dealing with the notion of a false lucid.

On your question about changing your mantra: Have you thought about making it in French (or maybe you are already doing that)? I hear that it is recommended to use your native language as it may make the connections between those neurons stronger...or some such technical explanation.  :tongue2: 

You may also want to include in your visualizations a simple (simple, for ease of transfer into the dream) self awareness moment of stopping and reflecting on your state, so that you fully realize "where" you are (experiencing a dream, an adventure while asleep, where you have a profound effect on everything around you, directly or indirectly).

----------


## Centroid

MY FIRST LUCID DREAM!
WOO-HOO!

I was in an X-Wing Starfighter (star wars) and the dream started collapsing. So I thought, DEILD! I managed to take out my phone and tried keeping my attention to it (I'm not so sure why), and then I suddenly appeared at my bed. I still had my phone in my hand, and the time kept going from 08:00 to 48:00 so I thought to myself: This is an FA! I'm still dreaming!' I then jumped through the window of our apartment and started flying! More like gliding really, couldn't control my speed, but it was still fun! Then I landed and woke up for real. I knew I really had woken up, because my heart was racing and I was feeling euphoric, but I still did an RC to confirm. 1st LD! YEAH!!!

This LD couldn't have come at a better time, because my interest in LDing had started fading. I could not think about lucid dreaming for a whole day, and was not consistent in my day work. Anyway, now I'm back in the game! 

It's funny how I MILDed that I was using the force, and I dreamt I was in a Starfighter! Before, my MILD was focusing on the mantra, but now I see visualizations are VERY powerful. I'll keep MILD going, but just at bedtime because waking up in the middle of the night would make me sleep for less than 8,5 hours.

So that said, I will keep up daytime self-awareness with more frequent presence checks. 

I'm so happy! Yay!

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## Centroid

> I agree that you are getting close!  Keep up the progress (without neglecting your studies of course). For the dream mentioned in your post before your last post (the longer one), that does sound like a dream about lucid dreaming, but you might also want to read my reply to Habba that I just posted in his workbook: #132. It has some things to consider when dealing with the notion of a false lucid.
> 
> On your question about changing your mantra: Have you thought about making it in French (or maybe you are already doing that)? I hear that it is recommended to use your native language as it may make the connections between those neurons stronger...or some such technical explanation. 
> 
> You may also want to include in your visualizations a simple (simple, for ease of transfer into the dream) self awareness moment of stopping and reflecting on your state, so that you fully realize "where" you are (experiencing a dream, an adventure while asleep, where you have a profound effect on everything around you, directly or indirectly).



Thanks for the advice! 

I'm not sure about making it in French, it's just that everything I have ever done/read/heard about lucid dreaming is in English, so it makes more sense to me this way. But tbh, I now feel that visualizations are much more powerful, I'll try out what you said about that self-awareness visualization, great idea!

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## FryingMan

Congratulations!    I'm sure it will be the first of many!

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## Centroid

Thanks! I'm sure it will!

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## fogelbise

::cheers:: Awesome Centroid!! I agree, since visualization seems to be among your strengths, roll with it! I also find it powerful but I see others that have trouble with developing good visualization skills, so you have an advantage with this!

Don't forget to update your LD count, still says none. Maybe instead of "1" you can't put "Had my first!" or "First of many, May 2016" as examples to boost your confidence to build on your first success. It truly makes me happy to read about people's first LD's. The dream collapsing is an excellent dream sign and as you found out, it DOES NOT HAVE TO MEAN THE END OF REM!  ::cheers::

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## Pornocrates

Congrats Centroid!  :smiley:

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## Centroid

Second lucid dream!!!!!!
Yeah!!!!!!

FA --> LD (like my other lucid)
Not sure what triggered lucidity, as I can't remember anything before the FA, and when I had the FA, I knew immediately I was dreaming. Dunno if something had happened earlier, or maybe it was because 2 nights ago I tried to incubate myself waking up lucid. Then I did the close-eye teleportation technique (Sensei-style), but before I could even imagine a place to go to I appeared at the Alps, ready to ski. I really like this technique, it gets rid of any doubt that I am not dreaming. So then I skied a little, found a huge jump and tried to make it. But I went too fast, missed the ramp and crashed... Then I lost lucidity and dreamed of being airlifted by helicopter into a hospital, both my legs missing... Then I woke up, very happy about the LD (though rather short).

Tbh, what I do (visualizations at night) feels more like incubation than MILD, so I think that's what I'll call it. I overload my mind with something for 10 minutes, and I have a chance of dreaming about that. Been trying this for a week, seeing myself using cool powers (some success, a couple of times, no lucidity though), now I think I'll try to incubate close-eye teleport, as it's such an effective RC. Will see how to do that.

Trying hard to keep up hourly presence checks, looking to do them more frequently, every time I think something LD related. My dream recall is going GREAT since I started typing on my phone instead of making squiggles on a notebook. It's weird, because I am motivated to write more down, and I do. Placebo, I don't know.

2 LDs within 2 weeks  :smiley: 
Also I can't edit my LD count unless I'm on my computer...

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## FryingMan

Congrats!   Keep it up, you're doing great!   If you feel that an approach will work for you, the added confidence will make it so, so keep on with that!
I think having concrete LD dream goals is a stronger and more reliable way to get lucid than just trying to create strong intent for general lucidity.

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## Centroid

> I think having concrete LD dream goals is a stronger and more reliable way to get lucid than just trying to create strong intent for general lucidity.



Precisely, now I'll try and come up with some new dream goals, but I'll have to make them easy to visualize, and effective for lucidity.

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## fogelbise

Very nice Centroid!! You are finding your own path which is something all consistent lucid dreamers seem to have in common! Good job!!  ::D:

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## Centroid

> Very nice Centroid!! You are finding your own path which is something all consistent lucid dreamers seem to have in common! Good job!!



It would've a much longer time if you guys weren't here! Thanks so much for all the help!

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## fogelbise

Thank you for the kind words  :smiley:  I somehow missed that last response but it seems like a good time to check in with you and see how you are doing Centroid.

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## Centroid

LD this morning! I recall realizing it was a dream, because everything had started fading, but a few seconds later I woke up, no FA though. So that's 3!!!

Progress update:
-incubating dream goals before bed and at every awakening
-I notice I'm paying less attention to day work, doing less 'presence checks' as I like to call them. Writing this down will motivate me to do more I hope. 
-dream recall going good, 1-2 full dreams every night

I am doing an internship at a place really into VR, so I had lots of time to try out the HTC Vive and the Hololens. Both completely blew me away, and the immersion they were able to provide was actually quite scary. I've been thinking about the implications on lucid dreaming, positive and negative.

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## fogelbise

> LD this morning! I recall realizing it was a dream, because everything had started fading, but a few seconds later I woke up, no FA though. So that's 3!!!



Awesome! Congratulations on #3, You should be proud!!  ::D:  

If you can lock in this next idea early in your lucid dreaming practice, you will be able to advance faster than I was able to. I discuss it here: http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...-read-imo.html The part I am referring to basically comes down to what you should aim to expect when dreams are fading. One method that works for people is spinning which can sometimes revive the scene or bring up a new one. If you decide to try this or any other stabilization method, just know that even if the scene completely fades, your lucid dream doesn't have to end. It may not work every time but, you will find that many times you can either spin and keep going or spend some time in the void - typically black or gray emptiness where you can remind yourself that you are still dreaming, rub your hands, keep moving in inventive ways and either wait for a scene to form or start seeding a scene of your choice by imagining ocean sounds and/or visuals in order to create an ocean scene as just one example.





> Progress update:
> -incubating dream goals before bed and at every awakening
> -I notice I'm paying less attention to day work, doing less 'presence checks' as I like to call them. Writing this down will motivate me to do more I hope. 
> -dream recall going good, 1-2 full dreams every night



Good!  :smiley:  I find the night work carries the most weight for triggering lucidity, but the day work is very important for increasing my level of lucidity.





> I am doing an internship at a place really into VR, so I had lots of time to try out the HTC Vive and the Hololens. Both completely blew me away, and the immersion they were able to provide was actually quite scary. I've been thinking about the implications on lucid dreaming, positive and negative.



Awesome! I have been dying to try out the Vive. I didn't know the Hololens was as promising, but glad to hear that you like them both.

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## Centroid

May-day, may-day, motivation going down! I see myself thinking less about lucid dreaming in general, and have failed to do ANY presence checks (self awareness reflection) in the last three days! Same with dream recall, even if currently it's pretty good and I still recall a few dreams, I have found other things to do rather than writing them down when I wake up! I hope with Daniel Love's project I'll get back in line. Will try, try, try to make an effort, but I always say this, and at the end of every day, I tell myself: 'oops, didn't do anything to lucid dream today, will try harder tomorrow'. However, still practicing LD incubation (MILD visualisations)  and find myself often dreaming about what thought before falling asleep, however I missed lucidity I could've gotten with more consistent day work. Anyway, going to bed now. Good night!

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## FryingMan

You can try to start rather than end the day with forming intention to practice throughout the day  :smiley: .   Not "tomorrow, I will practice," but "today I will practice".

You can always scale back your goals for specific #s of checks, etc., but try not to let it go to zero.    Set a goal for one, two, etc. serious RCs per day.  The satisfaction of meeting your goals can help you build to higher and higher ones over time.

It's not a race, but you do need to practice if you want to improve.   Only you can decide if it's something you want in your life.

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## FryingMan

Hi Centroid, how's the day work and recall doing?  

As for motivation, I find reading through peoples DJs can be really motivating.  All those crazy/fun/weird dreaming experiences are so amazing to wake up to every day!

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## fogelbise

I think we all go through ups and downs in our motivation. Try this and tell me if it triggers any response for you: Ask yourself "Will I lucid dream tonight?"





> However, still practicing LD incubation (MILD visualisations) and find myself often dreaming about what thought before falling asleep...



This could be very useful. Have you tried to use this to your advantage?

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## Centroid

Hey!

And another one! LD count #4!!!
I was talking to my friend, and tried to check the time, but I wasn't able to distinguish whether it was 14:08 or 18:08 on my watch. This instantly sparked lucidity, the same dream sign as one of my earlier FA LDs. Suddenly everything went dark grey, and I found myself actually seeing me, not through my dream eyes (it switched from 1st person to 3rd person). I tried jumping back into my head, but everything was extremely unstable/ foggy, so I couldn't visualize anything, and I woke up a couple of seconds earlier. 

I'm sorry I couldn't post anything earlier, my access to the internet being limited abroad, and I found no working wifi hotspot until today.

About progress, I've been doing 1+ RCs (usually 2-3) every day, spending some time on each. Dream journaling still going well, though I have seen longer entries. I know keeping a DJ is essential for LDs, so I will work harder on that, maybe looking through other people's DJs, as suggested by FryingMan. 

I have found that checking the time can makes me lucid, so I'll try incubating that during my MILD visualizations.

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## fogelbise

Awesome! Congrats again!! You may have found something that you can use to get lucid very regularly, especially if you incubate it like you suggested. You might also want to think of other ways to integrate time checks into your day and night practices, like checking the time during your RC's and during awakenings, always checking it at least 2 or 3 times. I may have some other ideas for you but the best ones are likely the ones that you come to through your own individual way of thinking.

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## Centroid

Hey! Been a few weeks since I posted here, sorry about that... 

Anyway, another LD a couple of days ago!!! I was in an airport, and working very hard to be able to give my family and me business seats on a long flight. I managed to succeed, somehow, and got very excited! On my way to these seats, I was greeted by many people offering things to eat etc., and then I get comfortable on my seat. Then my brother comes to me and says 'this is a dream!!!', and I do a nose-plug RC to confirm. My first thought was that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the seats, but then when seeing my brother flying, I really understand the implications of having a lucid dream, but immediately wake up... 

Daily RCs going ok, I have tried incubating myself checking the time, but nothing showed up in my dreams... I'll give SSILD a try tonight, been MILDing for a while with only some success in the beginning.

Dream recall - at least one full dream every night, generally one dream + fragments.

Also, I'm really sad I missed the competition!!! Been away from DV only 2 weeks, and missed something which could have been so awesome...  :Bang head:   :Crying:  I think I'll still count my points etc. the same as in the comp, and try using this as motivation.

Also, fogelbise, you said you had some other ideas, please share them, I don't have a clue what they could be! 

Thanks!

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## fogelbise

^I think it was some more ideas about time checks and incubation but I apologize my brain is too tired right now and need to head off to bed. Please do reply so I don't forget to answer your question. I try to respond to the workbooks in the order that the posts came in and your's was the most recent, so I unfortunately find myself a bit too sleepy. 

A big congrats by the way!! You are on a nice trend!

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## Centroid

Hello fogelbise!

It's okay, nevermind. Wow, you've got quite a few active workbooks now, thanks and good luck!

Dream recall pretty good this morning, woke up twice so two long dreams recalled.

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## fogelbise

I remembered at least one of the ideas. Since it seems like your mind is connecting with the time checks, what do you think about having one clock or watch that you will see several times a day set about 6 hours off. In other words the real time is 12 noon but it says 6am or 6pm and you try to feel as much astonishment as possible and do your RC and think about what you want to do while lucid. Just an idea, but if it doesn't feel right for you, no worries. Hope to see you around more and I am sure you will be reporting more LD's soon!

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## Centroid

DOUBLE LUCID!!!

I take my phone out and see a cracked screen, then I think, 'that's not mine' (my brother cracked his phone screen yesterday), nose-plug, lucid! I wander around, exploring, but I have trouble seeing everything around me. Dream collapses, and I don't remember anything anymore. I do recall I rubbed my hands and tried shouting "clarity!", but it didn't work. I believe I lost lucidity after everything went foggy.

At school, fire alarm but there was nobody outside, BAM! Double lucid, I immediately thought. Nose-plug, running around exploring everything and rubbing my hands. Dream clarity started off good but got worse very quickly, so I became desperate to 'see' better. I was in the countryside, it was a rather nice place, but everything became blurry/black and white very quickly, I felt like my field of vision decreased too, and then I woke up.

I had done MILD from 6:40 to about 7:10, and woke up from the second lucid at 7:45.

Woo-hoo! Make it 7.

PS: I had given up on LDing for the last 2 weeks, I was very frustrated that I did so much work during the day and nothing happened during my dreams. I was mostly doing self-awareness work, and some SSILD at night (not much night work though). Even without a DJ, I still recalled my dreams quite well. This little break was very much needed, and I started off fresh re-reading ETWOLD. I took a liking for Tholey's combined technique (did some research, Tholey started with only his reflection technique, and then added intention and auto-suggestion at night to create the combined technique. Auto-suggestion for me is just MILD, and that leaves me with his Reflection-Intention Technique, which I started practicing. I did RIT during the day and MILD at WBTB, for one day, and was rewarded with a double lucid! Maybe just enthusiasm, but I'll keep going with RIT + MILD (and DJing, of course).

Also, these lucids were VERY unstable and I couldn't see much in them, while my other 5 were okay. Any tips for clarity? I tried rubbing my hands and shouting. Or is it just cause I'm still a beginner LDer?

Is it common to have 2 lucids in quick succession like I did? Maybe one lucid makes it more likely to have another the same night?

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## FryingMan

> DOUBLE LUCID!!!
> 
> I take my phone out and see a cracked screen, then I think, 'that's not mine' (my brother cracked his phone screen yesterday), nose-plug, lucid! I wander around, exploring, but I have trouble seeing everything around me. Dream collapses, and I don't remember anything anymore. I do recall I rubbed my hands and tried shouting "clarity!", but it didn't work. I believe I lost lucidity after everything went foggy.
> 
> At school, fire alarm but there was nobody outside, BAM! Double lucid, I immediately thought. Nose-plug, running around exploring everything and rubbing my hands. Dream clarity started off good but got worse very quickly, so I became desperate to 'see' better. I was in the countryside, it was a rather nice place, but everything became blurry/black and white very quickly, I felt like my field of vision decreased too, and then I woke up.
> 
> I had done MILD from 6:40 to about 7:10, and woke up from the second lucid at 7:45.
> 
> Woo-hoo! Make it 7.
> ...



First on all, congrats!   Woohoo getting lucid is awesome!    I would like to suggest that several things came together here:
+ The accumulated effect of all the day awareness work (it takes time to build up)
+ A relaxed mindset free from the build-up of frustration
+ Reading about LDing.   There is something magical about this process that I believe installs very strong subconscious intent and goals, in addition to the conscious renewal of excitement
+ WBTB: you had mentioned previously that you didn't do much night work.  Re-setting your intent to LD after several hours of sleep is highly effective, as is the increased wakefulness (brain chemistry changes towards waking configuration).

Having a rigorous day practice can be a two-edged sword: 1) you build up a lot of awareness; but 2) you think "I'm working so hard, I MUST get lucid, why don't I get lucid more!?", leading to frustration, which leads away from good dreaming and lucidity.    Keeping a positive mindset of joy, excitement, fun, and wonder in the LDing practice I think is key for more lucidity.  Your brain will avoid things and states that you (subconsciously perhaps) think are not good for you.   If you had unknowingly established some "lucidity is stressful", that perhaps could have been inhibiting your progress.

Something you mentioned also is not doing much in the way of DJing: I would recommend returning to the DJ, as much as you can fit it into your schedule.   I think there's an effect similar to reading about LDing: you're really fully engrossed in the idea of dreaming and in the content of your dreams when you write your DJ.   Try to really enjoy the process, if it feels like "work" you'll be less likely to do it.

As for stability: it just takes time.   I had a mixture of early LDs: some where very stable, but a couple went to the void (lost visuals) right away.   It happens sometimes.   Early LDs also tend to happen close to your waking-up time, as this is when your brain is waking up for the day.   Don't worry too much about these cases.  Instead, just take this as positive proof that you CAN and you DO get lucid!     

As for multiple LDs per night: yes, sometimes!  Generally once all the stars align and you get lucid the first time, they remain aligned and you can get lucid again and again!

Congrats, and keep it up!  Think back to the last couple of weeks and try to recapture and continue that new enthusiasm, and let your confidence build from this success!    Consider any night that you have recall as a success and be thankful for all of your dreaming experiences.   Let us know what happens next!

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## fogelbise

Congratulations!! I like your plan to continue with RIT + MILD (with WBTB, WBTB is very powerful). 

It won't be like that every time but perhaps you were getting ready to wake up for the day?..or perhaps your mind thought you were. That sometimes affects the clarity for me, but not always. It sounded like you took the right steps and those steps are likely to work the next time you try them! 

I wouldn't say 2 in quick succession is common for a beginner, so great job!!  :smiley: 

(I see FM and I posted at almost the same exact time!)

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## FryingMan

Hah, yes, fogelbise and I posted at the same time!   I'm dreaming! RC RC RC

edit: probably the thing that prevented multiple LDs for me in the first several dozen LDs was just being so excited by the LD and DJing it immediately in detail.  That and of course the fact that they mostly happened late in the morning.

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## Centroid

Thanks for the replies! This thread helps a lot with enthusiasm! 

I agree with everything you have said, and I'll do my best to make everything more enjoyable and interesting. I'll also make an effort concerning dream journaling.

Also, something I forgot to mention: when I was rubbing my hands, it didn't feel like they were my hands. It was like, I imagined myself rubbing my hands and they appeared in front of me. Maybe because of the low dream clarity.

Also, FM, what book doesTYoDaS stand for in your signature? Just curious...  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> Also, FM, what book doesTYoDaS stand for in your signature? Just curious...



the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep -- highly recommended.
I also highly recommend Andrew Holecek's new book on Dream Yoga (I like it even more than TYoDaS, but still TYoDaS should be read as it has its own essential observations).

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## Centroid

> the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep -- highly recommended.
> I also highly recommend Andrew Holecek's new book on Dream Yoga (I like it even more than TYoDaS, but still TYoDaS should be read as it has its own essential observations).



Thanks, I'll check'em out!

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## Centroid

Hey! And yet another LD! Hurray!

I did a one-hour WBTB, reading ETWOLD and then doing MILD. I woke up a bit later with no lucids. I then do a short MILD. In that MILD I ask myself: what would I most like to do in a LD? I think super-sonic flying would be amazing (my flying so far felt like I was a falling leaf). I have another sly thought: sex would be good too. But I really don't want to, because I know that if I start, it's going to be the only thing I ever do in a LD. So I forget this and carry on visualizing myself soaring over cities. I then fall asleep shortly afterwards. In the dream, well, uh, you can guess what happens...  :tongue2:  But then I stop for a second and think 'I'm dreaming!' I notice that I'm still doing that. I have a decision to make: keeping at it or flying away. Somehow, I was lazy (in a dream hahaha I laughed so much when I woke up!) and thought it would be too much effort to fly. So I carried on with my previous activity, and woke up very shortly afterwards. I'm kinda disappointed in my LD self, really. Weak scumbag! Lol

Interesting thought: in MILD, I visualized this:
LD --> Goal
But in the dream it was:
Goal --> LD
So it's very important to associate my goal with LDing to not do the goal non-lucidly.

Anyway, it was an LD, and I've had plenty recently, so I'm happy about that. The content has time to change (I hope). Next MILD, I'm gonna be like 'Don't think about pink elephants!'

About my practice:
-DJing is okay (maybe one dream a night, been better but still good)
-RCs during the day (2-5 times, where I really question everything for about 10 min), I'm starting to bring self-awareness in (I've done it a lot already)
-WBTB+MILD every other night, I feel this is the real deal, the thing that makes me lucid

I'm keeping everything this way for now, as long as it gets me LDs! I might try chaining MILD more (instead of one long WBTB + one long MILD, I'll do many short MILDs scattered throughout my sleep), like Sensei's micro-WBTB. I'll try this if I don't become lucid within the next 4 nights. 

I'm really excited, and that's awesome! xD 

I hope you guys' dreams are going great too!

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## fogelbise

> Hey! And yet another LD! Hurray!
> ...
> -WBTB+MILD every other night, I feel this is the real deal, the thing that makes me lucid



Congratulations Centroid!!  :smiley:  Keep it going, you are doing great!

Yes, WBTB+MILD can do wonders. I would say that if I was only allowed to hold onto one practice, it would be WBTB, no doubt! Of course, by keeping up various day and night practices it supplements the power, effectiveness and level of the LD's…so the other practices are important too.

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## Centroid

Hi guys!

No LDs yet, minor dry spell (how can I even say this, it's only been a week since my last LD, haha), HOWEVER, some really awesome dreams, and I'm really happy to have them in my DJ!  :smiley:  

A dream I couldn't stop smiling about**: 
I dreamed that an amazing video game just went out, and so I texted a friend about it. I woke up and texted him back: never mind, it was just a dream. Then I woke up for real!

Anyway, I was reading Sageous stuff, and while going through the 'The WILD According to Sageous Q&A' posts I had a revelation: I was doing the RRC all wrong! During my practice, which lasted maybe a few weeks, I was spending some time thinking it all out etc, when I should have been looking for the sense of 'wonder' at my interactions, and my RRC should have been much shorter. Sageous also suggested to do the RRC after a normal RC, and this makes a lot of sense, because in waking life, the RRC grounds you in reality, while in a dream, the RRC is perfect for increasing lucidity (after it was confirmed by an RC), because you understand that everything is YOU, and it probably helps a lot with dream control too.

I'll do this then! RC + RRC at least once every hour. Also, I need to stop only reading the original post of every thread, and skim the rest of the posts of the thread, as the OP often says really important stuff he missed in his first post. This is what caused me to misunderstand a really good technique. 

Other things to note:
Dream recall is good.
MILDed a few times, although I haven't WBTBed much because of a ten-hour jet lag.

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## fogelbise

> Hi guys!
> 
> No LDs yet, minor dry spell (how can I even say this, it's only been a week since my last LD, haha), HOWEVER, some really awesome dreams, and I'm really happy to have them in my DJ!  
> 
> A dream I couldn't stop smiling about**: 
> I dreamed that an amazing video game just went out, and so I texted a friend about it. I woke up and texted him back: never mind, it was just a dream. Then I woke up for real!
> 
> Anyway, I was reading Sageous stuff, and while going through the 'The WILD According to Sageous Q&A' posts I had a revelation: I was doing the RRC all wrong! During my practice, which lasted maybe a few weeks, I was spending some time thinking it all out etc, when I should have been looking for the sense of 'wonder' at my interactions, and my RRC should have been much shorter. Sageous also suggested to do the RRC after a normal RC, and this makes a lot of sense, because in waking life, the RRC grounds you in reality, while in a dream, the RRC is perfect for increasing lucidity (after it was confirmed by an RC), because you understand that everything is YOU, and it probably helps a lot with dream control too.
> 
> ...



That's definitely a good position to be in, to feel like 1 week is a dry spell. With the right focus and persistence these "dry" periods will become shorter and less common.

Isn't that an interesting experiencejust imagine how many FA's we probably have and just never notice that we did something that we can later prove we didn't do IWL.

That is a great thread! You will probably find new things in such threads each time you revisit them.

I like your plan and good luck with the jet lag!  :smiley:

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## Centroid

Hi! 

I hope everything is going well for you all.

School started a few days ago for me, every teacher saying things like 'this is year is gonna be tough' or 'we don't recommend doing any extra-curricular activities'. So I'll most probably be very busy.

However, I don't intend to end my LD practice just yet, don't worry!  :wink2:  I wake up early 6 days a week (around 7:00), and go to bed between 10 and 11. I can sleep in on Sundays though. Therefore, I'll only be able to WBTB once a week. On week nights I need as much sleep as I can get, although I still want to have intentional awakenings and practice reaching out to my dream memories and mentally going through them to memorize them (and quickly tag them when I wake up for school). 

During the day I'll still keep working on my self-awareness, which I started practicing seriously not very long ago (focusing also hard on avoiding 'auto-pilot', although it might be a bit complicated during tests  :smiley:  Nevertheless, many of my dreams were of tests (actually pretty funny when I woke up, all the questions were nonsense...). I'll see what happens.

These days dream recall was pretty bad, only a few fragments when I woke up. This is probably due to a bad sleep schedule because of jet lag. Now I'm recovered I think, so I hope it's gonna be better now!

Also, I had quite a few FAs, but couldn't catch any of them... although I clearly thought 'this is weird' on one occasion, but simply dismissed the idea, I woke up like: NOOOO!

Also, I had something I wanted to ask: which intentions should I focus on at weekday bedtimes? Wake up and recall my dreams? Become lucid/self-aware? Mix both of them, or alternate them maybe? And should I do one long WBTB (maybe one hour long even, open to experimentation), or multiple short ones (Micro-WBTBs Sensei-style)? It's kinda like trying to hit a target with a bow; shooting one arrow but spending some time aiming, or shooting lots and lots of arrows but without aiming much, if that made any sense? Maybe even do both...

Also, I was thinking a bit about Sensei's dual-awareness ideas (lucidity = general dream awareness + state awareness). Maybe general dream awareness is the self-awareness Sageous talks about, and state awareness is LaBerge's prospective memory? What are your thought about this?  :smiley:  

Thanks!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Hi Centroid!   Just keep working consistently on self-awareness as much as you can.   Keeping an eye out for when you've slipped into auto-pilot is a great way to do that.  More and more, notice when this has happened.   Do this consistently and you'll very quickly start to "feel" when this has happened, allowing you to return to lucidity (waking or dreaming!) sooner and sooner, and hopefully eventually, remaining lucid all (or most of) the time.

 I've spoken a lot with Sensei and general dream awareness means awareness OF our dreams: understanding the concept of dream, realizing you do dream, a lot, every night, paying attention to your dreams, and recalling them.    State awareness means just that: "am I in the waking state or the dreaming state?"  Self-awareness (especially as Sageous defines it) includes state awareness, so is a super-set of state awareness.    I personally tend to split out state awareness from what I think self-awareness is.  It's all about how you slice the semantics.   Many of these terms involve aspects of the others.   Self-awareness and access to memory in particular are closely inter-related.

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## fogelbise

> Also, I had something I wanted to ask: which intentions should I focus on at weekday bedtimes? Wake up and recall my dreams? Become lucid/self-aware? Mix both of them, or alternate them maybe? And should I do one long WBTB (maybe one hour long even, open to experimentation), or multiple short ones (Micro-WBTBs Sensei-style)? It's kinda like trying to hit a target with a bow; shooting one arrow but spending some time aiming, or shooting lots and lots of arrows but without aiming much, if that made any sense? Maybe even do both...



Since it sounds like you will be very busy, you might want to alternate: several nights setting intention for recall until you feel like recall is going good and then switching to setting intention to become lucid. Most people find a longer WBTB to be more likely to produce a lucid dream, but everyone is different. You can always mix in times where you experiment with mini-WBTB's to see how they work for you. I think that you are making a good decision to save WBTB for that one day that you can sleep in.  If you can maintain some level of level of practice through this busy year, perhaps it can give you that extra lift each morning...that edge that most of your classmates just won't have (picture that joy you feel after waking from a good lucid dream or even a good non-lucid dream). With all of the above advice, go with your gut though!  :smiley:

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## Centroid

Hello fogelbise and FryingMan! (and fellow students! &#128521 :wink2: 

I'm sorry I haven't posted here in a very long time, and I hope you're all doing well! 

I've been very busy, and every day is a race to finish my homework and revisions to have enough sleep. Last year I was sleeping for an average of 9 hours, but these couple of months saw it go down to 7-8 hours. It's still okay I guess, and I can catch up in the weekend (although I can only sleep in on Sundays). 


From the past six months of having lucid dreams, I have learned the following:

-WBTB is extremely effective.

-I have had some success with visualization/incubation while doing MILD, but the success faded after this became routine and a bit boring tbh. I also needed to do it for at least 30 minutes for it to be effective. 

-I usually have FAs after SSILD, and sometimes spontaneous DILDs.

-I tried many different things during the day: intention-setting, incubation/visualizations, prospective memory training, self-awareness, critical thinking, mindfulness. It's not easy to know what works for me or not, but the things that I actually enjoy doing are: constant mindfulness (avoiding auto-pilot), self-awareness (through RRCs mostly) and critical thinking (with RCs). 


--> What I do now:

-SSILD (after 5-15 min WBTB) 2-3 times on Saturday night.

-RCs and RRCs (5-10 each, doing one then the other) during the day (for self-awareness and critical mindset).

-I recall my dreams when I wake up every day, for about 5 minutes, although I haven't written it down recently, because life gets in the way and I want to sleep enough. What do you guys think? I haven't noticed my recall going down yet, it's still pretty good (1+ dreams, usually 2). 


--> Results so far:

-I have had a week with 4 LDs, and some with none. 

-Average LDs/week: ~2, while two months ago it was ~1.

-I have an LD from doing SSILD (done 3 times in one night) about 75% of the time (would be more if I caught every FA). So that's great, but the only problem is that it's impossible to do during a school night because it would make me sleep deprived, which I think would not be beneficial in the long run. 

-I usually have one spontaneous DILD during the week, probably due to the day-work. 

-I have had 13 LDs since I last posted here (I still need to update my count). Out of those, 8 lasted less than ~5 minutes (then I either woke up or lost lucidity). In the remaining 5, 3 of those were low-lucidity where I did some stuff but I wasn't really understanding what being lucid was exactly. So I did have 2 longer and stable lucid dreams! I did some cool stuff, like flying in space at the speed of light (amazing experience)! I explored a few planets but didn't encounter any forms of life... In the other lucid dream I skied for a while and flew around the snowy mountains a lot too. These were very fun experiences, and they make me realize that I'll never want to quit! 

-When I have longer, more stable and more frequent lucid dreams I'll use them more for things like rehearsal, or learning, to make my life better  :smiley:  But I still need to work a lot on stabilization and making the lucids more lucid and longer, as well as more frequent.

Thanks for your help!

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## Pornocrates

Jeez, really nice progress Centroid !

Did you try setting the intention to notice the natural awakenings during the night (micro-wakings between the sleep cycles) ? It's a good way to improve your DR without messing with your sleep !

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## fogelbise

It's great to hear you are doing well Centroid!  :smiley: 





> -WBTB is extremely effective.
> 
> -I have had some success with visualization/incubation while doing MILD, but the success faded after this became routine and a bit boring tbh. I also needed to do it for at least 30 minutes for it to be effective.



-So true!!

-If you ever get bored of SSILD you may find that MILD feels fresh again after a break. You could switch between them to keep each of them feeling fresh. You many not need to thoughI used SSILD for ~3 years straight. I then switched to MILD, only because I found I enjoyed it, over the last 8 months or so but I have been itching to switch back to SSILD again.





> --> Results so far:
> 
> -I have had a week with 4 LDs, and some with none. 
> 
> -Average LDs/week: ~2, while two months ago it was ~1.
> 
> -I have an LD from doing SSILD (done 3 times in one night) about 75% of the time (would be more if I caught every FA). So that's great, but the only problem is that it's impossible to do during a school night because it would make me sleep deprived, which I think would not be beneficial in the long run. 
> 
> -I usually have one spontaneous DILD during the week, probably due to the day-work. 
> ...



Very nice results! I also saved most WBTB's for the weekends early in my practice until I got to a point where I was getting good sleep with WBTB, but that was mostly through being able to get to bed earlier. There's nothing wrong with saving it to the weekend and you are getting nice results just that way. I agree that WBTB's during the week may not be beneficial at this time due to your studies and sleep schedule.





> -When I have longer, more stable and more frequent lucid dreams I'll use them more for things like rehearsal, or learning, to make my life better  But I still need to work a lot on stabilization and making the lucids more lucid and longer, as well as more frequent.



It helps to try not to worry about stabilization and just enjoy the lucids with a confident attitude like "I got this!"





> Thanks for your help!



You're welcome. Thank you for saying that. FM and I like to see the students excel!  :smiley:

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