# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  Lucid Dreaming App - Open Beta!

## Ev

After furiously coding the app for the past 2 weeks, I'm proud to present the Lucid Dreaming App: The world's first mobile app to try to induce lucid dreaming through actigraphy. I'd like to thank TeaSea for his inspiration, feedback and help with testing the app.


Please give it a try:


It works on Android phones. Here's a brief overview of the principle of operation:

1) You download the app
2) It calibrates the accelerometer for 15-120 min
3) You record your voice reminder and store it in SDCard/Recordings folder
4) You customize how the app will deliver the reminder  (how long you have to be asleep for) - roughly corresponds to sleep cycles
4) Start the app when you go to sleep, put the phone on your mattress
5) The app monitors your sleep and plays your reminder in REM.
6) You can mark the dreams/lucid dreams/awakenings using gestures


When the night is over, you get a graph of your sleep cycles, along with your markers. Here's an example from last night - I had insomnia, but it paid off as I had lucid dreams towards the end. Triangles are dreams, squares are lucid dreams. This is real data.



Regular sleep cycles(old layout, no lucid dreams)



And a sleep statistics:


Feedback is greatly appreciated!

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## Erii

D: I wish this was on ipod!  :Pissed:

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## TeaSea

This is such a brilliant app, so much potential. Definitely recommend this for people to test  :smiley:

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## MBA42

> D: I wish this was on ipod!



 There is a lucid dream app from the "unexplainable store" but it costs 9.00$.

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## DougD720

Very cool.  Will definitely download once I get my Droid phone this week.

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## berryman13

Looks amazing. Got my download!

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## sendude

Does not work on my desire HD. When i try to start it i get an error message and it closes down  :Sad:

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## OwlDreamz

Please please I beg of you... Can this app be developed for iPhone?? It's exactly what I have been looking for  :Sad:

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## berryman13

> Does not work on my desire HD. When i try to start it i get an error message and it closes down



Works fine on my HTC Inspire, the att equiv of the DHD...what ROM are you running?

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## sendude

> Works fine on my HTC Inspire, the att equiv of the DHD...what ROM are you running?



I have no idea actually. Bought it in sweden right before christmas and haven't changed anything in the rom on purpose since then.

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## Ev

About the app - I'm a Java Developer, from what I understand, IPhone runs some other OS, and it's not as easy to develop for an iPhone  :Sad:  I intend to make the app open source community project once it picks up a bit more momentum. Then someone would be able to port it to Iphone. That's a few months away. I waited for 5 years to get a development medium as flexible as Android. 

One thing is for sure - the app will keep getting better and better. The next big update is going to happen on May 1st, or so and will include an exciting smart timer feature based on this discovery . With the current simulations the app is able to detect REM 10 minutes before I wake up and record a dream. This is a good window to fine tune the reminder delivery time.



About the crash - I got another report of the same issue on HTC desire. Yet the only bug report that i got from Android Market that looks similar was dated April 23rd. I fixed that, and the fix is coming with next update. Android market had some serious issues with updating their statistics in the past few days, so chances are it did not capture your crash report. Would you please run the app 3 more times, so the market would be able to capture the bug report? 

[Update] I got a couple more reports about this crash from the Android Market. Thank you if you persisted in running the app  :smiley:  The good news is that this is the same bug that I saw on the 23rd, and I fixed it for the upcoming update.


I use HTC HD2 with HTC desire image(SuperRam Froyo ver 1.7 Android 2.2.1) it works great. HTC Desire runs Android 2.2 stock. If you go to your phone's preferences and find "about phone", you will be able to see your Android OS version.

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## Ev

Since I cannot edit either of my posts after 1440 minutes, I have to add a new one. Behold the prettiness of the lucid dreaming app (graphics courtesy of Fabio Leone) !  :smiley: 
[/URL]

sleep history feature - you can see time in bed, total restful sleep duration and awakening time. Useful for noticing insomnia and other factors reducing sleep quality. Upon reaching a certain number of restful sleep minutes you may wake up naturally. I certainly do: all awakenings here are natural.



History of dreams to help estimate REM episodes. This busy graph shows suspected REM episodes (red line segments) because there's a history of dream events ocuring a few minutes after that time. Red and Yellow Xs show when the app would've played a reminder on that day with current settings. 


Here's a list that I use to estimate REM. It is the foundation of the app's smart timer feature. This timer automatically adjusts itself to play sound in the next REM cycle, even if you got up and went to the bathroom or wrote in a dream journal. 


The app delivers reminders very close to dreams or causing awakening from REM, resulting in dream recall. Here I report 3 dreams, 1 lucid dream and remember 2 more dreams. 


The prettiness continues with a clock with customizeable colors(available in the next update), it also supports gestures for ease of interaction


Finally there's a "cognition enhancement" tool, my hypothesis that doing some activity with digital clock may help increase cognitive abilities in dreams . This feature is currently under testing and will be available in the next release

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## madeofparts

Great. Thanks. OSS + Android + skill + creativity =  :smiley: 

I have been using this on my Motorola Dext (2.1.5) and it works great when I am in bed by myself, but my partner is a very light sleeper.

I was hoping it would be versatile enough for me to set it up to use in a shared bed - I think it could be done by putting it close to your pillow in flight mode and adjusting the prefs over time. My partner, she moves a LOT in her sleep though (I have discovered thanks to this app) so I may have to be happy with the timer settings.

Maybe if I strap it to my face.......  ::?:  

Still, love the app.   ::D: 

One thing that would be great is a way of setting and configuring more than 1 audio reminder possibly even randomly pick from files in a folder - I find that "you are asleep", "this is a dream", and "do a reality check now" are three that work well, but they need to be varied or they stop working.

Thanks again.

Mop,

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## IAmCoder

I love how the "2" in the binary acts as a dream sign and wakes up the droid! Very cool.

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## Ev

Hey, thanks for loving the app  :smiley:  

Major body movements by a partner are indeed a big problem in Actigraphy! There's simply no way to easily cancel them out, because they are ...well... major! 

You can still use the app to mark your dreams and use that information to configure the Smart Timer. 
By the way, does your partner mind the reminders?

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## IAmCoder

What IDE did you use to write it?

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## Ev

It's written in Eclipse Helios Enterprise using Android SDK.

By the way, I'll be adding WBTB feature soon. The user would be able to set the app to awaken the user before predicted REM episode, and show a list of lucid dreaming related articles, videos or audio files. To wake up the user, the phone may play a reminder or vibrate every minute until the user is awake enough to do WBTB.

I'm also adding a WILD feature - a set of custom timers you can use to set the phone to play reminders at certain intervals, like 4,8, etc minutes. This will be a one gesture action - draw the WILD gesture to start the timer sequence, draw the gesture again to stop it if you want to sleep. There's a google api that does morse code with vibration, it sounds very distinct, I wander what it does for the dreaming, or if is enough to wake the person up. 

Up until now, my WILDs required quite a lot of time, because they were performed after awakening from a dream or due to a bathroom break, etc. Maybe waking up before REM episode and using fairly long timers (ex: 8,8,16 minutes) would keep the induction time short enough for me to try WILDing again.

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## IAmCoder

Thanks! I am getting started on Android and just download Eclipse and NetBeans and IntelliJ - will see which one works best for me.

Those features sound very promising - I think you will trigger the most lucids with the WILD feature!

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## madeofparts

> Hey, thanks for loving the app  
> 
> Major body movements by a partner are indeed a big problem in Actigraphy! There's simply no way to easily cancel them out, because they are ...well... major! 
> 
> You can still use the app to mark your dreams and use that information to configure the Smart Timer. 
> By the way, does your partner mind the reminders?



The app is excellent enough at collecting and presenting data that I can use the information to customize timed alerts. I am still learning how best to make use of the information.
I use recorded audio alerts through in-ear headphones (earbuds?) so my partner is not bothered.
The ability to be able to choose which audio reminder to use, depending on something simple like nth reminder or nth awakening, or nth hour asleep would really make this app for me. 
I used to use an audio track that I put together with cues and binaurals and state-inducing ambient sounds that worked for me - If only I had had access to this app then it would have taken much less trial and error to produce it.
As it is - even if the ability to have more configurable audio cues is not implemented I will be able to use the data from this app to make a much better track.
 :smiley: 
Thanks again.

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## 317

I tried this app last night. I use a Samsung Moment (M900). I opened up the data screen to see results this morning, I caught a glimpse of it, but then it completely turned off my phone and rebooted it. I lost all data from the night. Is there something I should know?

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## Wolf2

Right so finally used this app for the first time last night.  Firstly great app and thanks for making it!

Was woken up at about 3am by a pretty huge aftershock (Christchurch, NZ so not that uncommon atm) and checked it and it was working fine.  Went back to sleep, woke up again at 9 and it said it had stopped responding (ideos 8510).  But luckily it had saved the data up until just after 4am so it was interesting to see the quake on it (awake graph pretty much hit the bottom).

Now I do have a couple questions

1)  None of my voice reminders played?  I had it set up, turned on etc.  Do I need to configure smart timer?  IF so how do I do that because it didn't make much sense to me.

2)  What causes the lucid dream part of the graph to move?  Twice it had jumped a little but I didn't have any lucid dreams.

3)  Can you turn the screen off (ie lock the phone) when you start the app, or do you need to leave it on all night?

4)  I'm still not 100% sure how to read the graph, but are the "blocks" (rectangles, light blue I think?) the REM periods?  So each block is a REM period, is that right?

Other than oddly having a couple of short dreams about the app (lol?) and it sadly crashing (wifi wasn't on, so couldn't send a report sorry) and the voice reminders not playing, it seems great.  Was skeptical that it would actually work, but there must be some serious science behind it.  Though I did have to wonder how accurate it was when I woke up lying on where I had my phone and seeing my phone down the bed head haha.

Please keep up the good work

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## Ev

Thank you for the feedback guys! I know the app is not what it should be right now. I'm still learning how to develop apps, and Android has quite a few quirks that I have to get used to. One thing is certain - I want this app to work just as much as you guys do! 

 The next update will attempt to separate the app into many small activities, which should provide better performance for slower phones. Additionally, I'm moving data collection to separate service, so it may be able to run in the background. It doesn't want to do so reliably on my development phone yet.

One thing that still has to be solved is the phone compatibility. Some phones deliver accelerometer events in a different way, something that I cannot replicate easily on my development phone. This is why some people have trouble calibrating the app. Resolving this issue will require me to touch the very core of the app, and I don't really have a timeframe on when this may be fixed :/

@madeofparts  : Multiple reminders - thank you for this great idea! I was thinking of how to implement WBTB, and this really helped. I'll add wake up behaviors to the REM events - wake up before(WBTB), wake up after movement(DEILD/DILD) or wake up at the end (for dream recall). Additionally, I'll add a custom reminder for each REM event. This way, if you want to hear something different, you can. This feature will be available in the next update within a few days. 

@317 : The app should automatically save data every 10 minutes to SDCard. If the app did save data, you should be able to press the menu hard button on the splash screen (2 androids talking) to bring up the menu. From that menu, pick "view data", then "load graph". Here are the screenshots Lucid Dreaming App Feature Quick Reference » Lucid Dreaming App . If your data was not saved, the app has a built-in sample graph. Can you see the sample graph?


@Wolf2 1) I have to re-install app for testing several times, and this point also trips me. By default, none of the Smart Timer REM events are turned on. If you touch them on the configure smart timer screen, they become active. I just noticed that the detailed instruction page on how to customize the smart timer is broken.  :Sad:  I've restored it, here's some info on how to configure the smart timer: Configure Smart Timer » Lucid Dreaming App . Did this help? If so, maybe I should change to enable all of them by default. If this did not help, do you hear the sound if you press "play current reminder" from the preferences menu?

2) There's a red line on the graph, this is the sleep score, it gets higher when more activity is detected. When sleep score is greater than 1, the user is considered awake. Lucid dreams are entered manually using the "lucid dream" gesture (default -  5pointed star). Lucid dreams are displayed as red squares, normal dreams as teal triangles. The graph only has shades of 5 colors by default, other colors I have to add manually. I'll add other colors for user events in the future. 

3) I'm working on this now by rewriting the data collection to take place as a background service. In theory this should enable the screen to be turned off, while the app still works. This requires a few design changes, and will likely be the next big update.

4) Each blue block is a period when the user is asleep, because there's no movement detected. It could be any sleep stage, although longer light blue blocks may indicate deeper sleep. REM sleep is most likely towards the end of the blue block, before a user reports a dream. 


Those of you experiencing crashes after several hours, do you use a custom ROM on your phone? I do, and it helps if I reboot the phone before starting the app for the night. 

I'm also working on making data processing less resource intensive, especially for slower devices. 

The app is also being translated to Italian!

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## Wolf2

Right since you seem so helpful (thank you for your answers) I'm definitely going to help you as much as I can. 

I do have a custom ROM and I will try rebooting the phone before starting tonight.

The Smart Timer makes more sense now.  I did go into it and make the default active after I made that post.  Now this might just be me being extremely lazy (either way I don't have a complete graph of my sleep yet anyway) but is there a way for the app to take one of your graphs and interpret the best times for the smart timer?  I'll try it with the default until like I said I have a full graph to put my own numbers in, but just an idea.  And yes I can hear my recording if I press the play recording button.  Although that suggested recording programme didn't work on my phone so I had to record on pc and transfer to phone.

And I must've read the graph wrong, the line along the bottom is the sleep score, not the lucid dream (my mistake).  Also seeing as the graph is hard to read on my phone without zooming a heap and then scrolling, is there an easy way to send them to email/pc?  I notice you have screenshots of yours or at least the one in your last post but I don't have the software for that.  I know they are saved so I could probably just take them off the SD card.

And I remember seeing a "send data anonymously" note somewhere, how do I do that?  I'd be happy to supply my graphs if it'll help (I'll try to remember to post my first full graph when I get it)

Also, having that clock displayed (due in next update?)  when the app is working would make up for not being able to turn the screen off imo (or at least in the meantime).

Either way, and especially for a beta, this is one amazing app and I look forward to the next update(s) but I know for sure I will continue using it each night.  Anything I (we?) can do to help just say.

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## Ev

It's great to hear such supportive words  :smiley:  

The Smart Timer is not smart enough to analyze data automatically, maybe when I have more data I would be able to find a way to do this. Right now there are just too many randomness to take into account. Here's how it works right now: How Smart Timer Works » Lucid Dreaming App

The  graph data is saved as data only form. The built-in web page on the phone displays that data. The good part is that it is possible to create the same kind of webpage to display data on the computer. However, my knowledge of PHP is not enough to do this right now, even though it should be very easy for someone with PHP knowledge. There's like 20 lines of code that have to be changed. A file has to be uploaded and its contents passed to a javascript enabled page. After that you should be able to view your graphs through the website, they would support larger screens and even have real zooming mode (with axis scaling). 

You can send data to bugreport at luciddreamingapp.com . The option to upload data anonymously is not active right now. The analysis screen still mentions it.

*[Update] The current Android firmware stops accelerometer when the screen is powered off. I got the app running in the background, but it does not receive any accelerometer data. Apparently there are workarounds for select phones, but it is not universal. So the best option right now is to use the clock screen.*

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## 317

EV,

Thank you for your response. It seem it was my fault. I had 2 additional questions for you if you'd be so kind.

1.) Is there a way to transfer the data to a windows OS in it's complete format as shown on the phone ie: table with graph/legend? I always though gzip was a linux compression engine, and when decompressed it would output text. Is that right?

2.) When I load graph, it says "File selection cancelled" though I am still able to select my data files in the "Select file" screen. Is this something I should be worried about or an error that would affect data collection at all?

Thanks again, please add Samsung Moment (M900) to your confirmed device support list, works great so far!

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## Wolf2

Glad to see the update is out, the clock looks very nice.  Though what exactly the are letters under it?  Looks like Ar?  And is the clock RC in this update or still to come?

Used it again last night (preupdate), crashed twice.  I woke up about 30 mins after it crashed so I started it again and then it crashed again at 9am just after I woke up.

Tried to take some screens, didn't turn out the best but am wondering, why is my awake (the yellow) coming down from the top and why is it moving so much?  Should I move phone further away or change sensitivity settings?  I calibrated for 30 mins first time.

Also I get the same problem as 317 re #2.  Says something about file selector and then cancelled but it still loads.  Anyway here are the screens, hope they can be read.

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## Ev

> Glad to see the update is out, the clock looks very nice.  Though what exactly the are letters under it?  Looks like Ar?  And is the clock RC in this update or still to come?
> 
> Used it again last night (preupdate), crashed twice.  I woke up about 30 mins after it crashed so I started it again and then it crashed again at 9am just after I woke up.
> 
> Tried to take some screens, didn't turn out the best but am wondering, why is my awake (the yellow) coming down from the top and why is it moving so much?  Should I move phone further away or change sensitivity settings?  I calibrated for 30 mins first time.
> 
> Also I get the same problem as 317 re #2.  Says something about file selector and then cancelled but it still loads.  Anyway here are the screens, hope they can be read.



Wolf, its great that you can take screenshots, these really helped!

The app listens to accelerometer events. On my phone, there are about 1200-1400 of them delivered every second, and I set the built-in filter to expect a similar number. As a result, it produces activity level of 0 when left flat on a table.  It appears that on your phone the events are delivered at a different rate, so the filter does not work. This is why your activity graph is very jagged, with 1500 average activity level. Because you calibrated the app, it adjusted itself to that activity level as the baseline. So that activity level is still considered as less than 1, and as a result you are seeing the sleep scores, etc (red line). The yellow line appears to come from the top because the app actually clips data at ~2500 activity count. You may change this preference in the logging option, then you will see how high your activity goes during peaks. My guess would be around 5000.

*One thing you may find useful is turning off the phone for a couple minutes, then turning it back on. Start the app and let it sit on your table for 20 minutes or so. See what your baseline activity level is after you reboot the phone. If it is still ~1500, then the event delivery rate is the issue. If it is close to 0, then it is the phone's accelerometer acting up due to static, etc. I'm very interested in seeing the result of this experiment, if it is not too much trouble for you.* 

To fix this issue, I will add another metric to the calibration log. I need to see how quickly the app delivers events on other people's phones to be able to solve the problem.


As for the AR, that's probably AM for the 12 hour clock. Since I use 24 hour clock, I never saw that bug! The 7 segment LED font used for the digits is not very friendly to letters. If you want the "AM" part to show in line with the clock, you can reduce the clock digit size to ~96, then it should fit on one line!





> EV,
> 
> Thank you for your response. It seem it was my fault. I had 2 additional questions for you if you'd be so kind.
> 
> 1.) Is there a way to transfer the data to a windows OS in it's complete format as shown on the phone ie: table with graph/legend? I always though gzip was a linux compression engine, and when decompressed it would output text. Is that right?
> 
> 2.) When I load graph, it says "File selection cancelled" though I am still able to select my data files in the "Select file" screen. Is this something I should be worried about or an error that would affect data collection at all?
> 
> Thanks again, please add Samsung Moment (M900) to your confirmed device support list, works great so far!



Hi,

To answer your questions: 
1) You can transfer files to windows OS, they are just GZIP compressed .txt files . I use the program called 7zip to unpack them. WinRar does not seem to recognize this archive. Inside the txt file are timestamp-value pairs for all graph data. This data is plotted through a javascript enabled webpage with a plugin called Flot. Right now I don't know how to display data on the PC. There's also a minute- by minute .txt log file which you may plot in Excel or other spreadsheet. 

2) The app tries 2 ways to open the file. First it tries OI File manager, and if that bounces back, then it selects the built-in file selector and shows that message for the first attempt. I will add extra checks to make this message disappear in future releases.

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## Wolf2

> *One thing you may find useful is turning off the phone for a couple minutes, then turning it back on. Start the app and let it sit on your table for 20 minutes or so. See what your baseline activity level is after you reboot the phone. If it is still ~1500, then the event delivery rate is the issue. If it is close to 0, then it is the phone's accelerometer acting up due to static, etc. I'm very interested in seeing the result of this experiment, if it is not too much trouble for you.*



Okay just tried this.  Not sure if I did it right, couldn't see a "baseline activity level" anywhere?

After 25 minutes the list read this

Total      X        Y        Z
4087    1474    937    1676

Rebooted phone, started it again, the single activity count is 9775 and the constant cole (I think thats what it was?) was 4.4920........

Then started it and the first results showed this

Total      X        Y          Z
5426    1554    2103    1769

Again not sure if they're the right figures but am happy to do it again if they're not.

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## Ev

Wolf, these results mean that the app is at fault - it doesn't process accelerometer events properly. By the baseline activity level I meant the activity level that is observed at rest. For me it is 0-50. For you it is a lot more, while it should be very close to 0.  :Sad:  This means that the filter used by the app is not one size fits all. 

For the next update, I've added the number of accelerometer events processed each minute. This would help to debug this issue further.

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## Wolf2

Okay, look forward to getting it solved.

Tried it again last night, have now realized it will not last longer than 5 hours without crashing (ie will crash every 5 hours roughly).  I will point out though that my phone is a cheapy (got it for free anyway) so it's certainly not high end.

Also I'm having a minor issue with the clock.  It's displaying so that the last digit of the seconds is on the line below it.

EG

5:03:3
6 PM

And the M in AM and PM is not a complete M?  Looks more like an r.  Not sure if it's just not fitting on my screen or if it's like that for anyone else?  Also, does the clock change colour by itself at all?  Went to bed and it was green, woke up middle of the night after restarting the app and it was a light blue?

Keep up the good work.

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## 317

Ev and wolf,

I used the app last night again. I have a few findings that you might be interested in. 

I have the same results as wolf with the digits being cut off
This morning when I went to close the app, my phone had a message "Battery is overheated", that sucker was HOT to the touch!

I DID have a DILD  ::banana::  within my last REM cycle of the night/morning, but nothing was reflected on the graph, is the LD mark on the legend strictly used as a user input marker for record? I would assume so because I would think it would be hard to track a LD with the gyroscope, can you confirm?

I'd really like to share my graphs, is there ANY way it code it so that one could "long press" the screen when data is displayed and save to jpeg on the SD card?

One part that's off is the sleep duration in my data, the last 2 times it showed 100% non-restful sleep. Though last night it showed 6% restful sleep, on my graph it is reflecting "sleep episodes" chronologically correct, but not showing dreams and/or LD's. Also, last night my sleep duration reflected approx. 5:05AM - 7:45AM on the graph, though I know my sleep duration was consistent from approx. 12:30AM - 7:45AM with a few natural wake up's after REM cycles.

Wolf, How did you capture screenshots? Is that a background app, or a firmware feature on your phone?

EV, let me know if I can be of assistance. I can try a few different things if you suggest them for me to change to increase your test data for development.

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## Ev

Lucid Dreaming App version 0.7 will be released on Friday, the 13th of May. Oh noes!  :smiley:  Here are the release notes

To answer your questions:
1) Digits are being cut off due to large digit size. The default is 128. You can change the size by going to preferences> scroll down to "Clock Digit Size". Try setting it to 96, then it should fit on your screen. *Blue clock* - when you configured smart timer, you set some periods throughout the night as REM events. The clock changes color to blue at the start of one of these events. It's one of the things you may use to adjust your REM events for the smart timer. This is intended to help see if the REM events are properly configured - waking up during to a blue clock and recalling a dream is good. If you never see the blue clock, the smart timer is probably not configured correctly. 

2) I've changed the way the app works, now it will require less memory and will be able to free up memory easier. This should help with crashes after a period of time. Not sure if this will help with the battery overheating issue. My phone also heats up for no apparent reason, although I havent seen that happening much lately. 

3) User events on the graph are strictly entered by the user. There's no way to guess REM or dreams from actigraphy data alone. This is why user events are needed. 

4) The non-restful sleep issue may be happening because of the same issue as the one Wolf is experiencing - the app does not filter the actigraphy signal well enough, so the app counts random spikes as activity and think that you are awake. 

Saving graphs is a high priority, as it would make the app much more user friendly. Android does not support saving web pages or taking screenshots of the screen without custom ROM/Root or external software like the development environment. I've looked for it for quite some time. The solution that I"m going to implement is a separate webpage when you can upload your graph and manipulate it in a web browser. This will support full zoom functionality and you would be able to save it using "Alt+print screen". Right now I just dont have the knowledge required to do it ( I know Java, that requires PHP). 

*The app can really benefit from more testers.* There are a couple people already helping me to test the app, but the more the merrier! Testing for stability issues like crashes or freezes after a few hours takes... a few hours for each test!  317, I've sent you a PM. If anyone else wants to help with testing, please PM me with your email and I'll send you the pre-release app and testing instructions.

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## Wolf2

317, download "Shootme" from the marketplace.  That's what I used, when it's on just shake the phone and it'll take a screen.

Ev, interesting enough it didn't crash for me last night for the first time.  Went from 10.30 to 6.20 with no problems.  Though it did say I woke up about 13 times, which may be true, but I only recorded dreams on it twice so again it's probably the problem with the activity thing.

Will make sure to try to new update as soon as I get it, looks very promising.  Will get more screenshots up next time hopefully.

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## 317

Wolf, 
Will do, thanks!

Ev,
I used the fixed copy last night and it was successful for approx. 8 hours. No crashes. Stress test complete also, no errors to report.

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## Ev

Wolf, those awakenings are called "intermittent awakenings", I'm having a similar number. They are not full awakenings, just major body movements, like turning around would be considered an awakening, because your body is not paralyzed. Or it may be the noisy accelerometer thing.

It's good to hear there are no crashes!

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## Wolf2

Thanks for the email EV, have downloaded that version onto my phone and will work through those instructions as soon as I can.  

As promised here's another screenshot (sorry they're so small, no idea how to make them bigger) of a full night, this was 2 nights ago (sadly it crashed last night again but hopefully the new version won't)




(if you notice it says 3 user events but only see two it's because I accidentally did the arrow for a dream the wrong way (I did the awake one) and then did it the right way straight after it so it's sitting over the top.  Mistake on my part, not the apps)

Will let you know how I get on with this new version.

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## Ev

Friday the 13th is one hell of a day to release an app update. There are just too many technical glitches happening left and right :/ . While I fixed the issues before midnight, I still have to do the pre-release testing to ensure everything works.   I'll publish the update this weekend, it is worth the wait!

----------


## celestialelixir

I really wish there was something liek this for the iPhone :/

----------


## Wolf2

Used 0.7 (the one in email) last night for the first time.  Calibrated it for 30 mins before I used it.  Forgot to set the voice reminder smart timer times to active though.

It crashed halfway through the night, but it kept collecting accelerometer data according to my notification bar (I thought it couldn't do this when the screen was off?  Because when it crashes the screen turns off)

If that happens we need a way to stop it collecting that data.  Maybe clicking on it in the notification bar will stop it?  Looking at the graph didn't.  I had to start the app again and exit it.

But yeah, very funny looking graph, no idea what to make of it...




Also not sure what that user event is?  I didn't input anything.

EDIT:  Turns out the smart timer was set, not sure why it didn't play anything (or play one according to the stats)

----------


## Ev

Hi Wolf, 

This is ugly, but very useful test results! I understand what is happening now. When the app crashes, the wakelock currently in place also goes away. This is why the background service keeps running, collecting the data. When the screen is off, the accelerometer outputs 0,0,0 all the time, but the app does not check to see if the screen is off for such values. Maybe I can add such check. 

I don't know what happened from 4 to 7 in terms of the data collection. There's no data for that period, this is why there are strange cuts in the graph. In terms of the user event - this is the green diamond at the sleep start. This must've happened when you touched the screen or put something over it (if you have a resistive touchscreen). 


*There are some good news that I'd like to share:* I found a way to fix the calibration issue on the Droid phones. This may mean that the calibration issue (Lucid Dreaming App unable to calibrate) is fixed on other phones as well. I also fixed a bug with viewing graph data on Droid phones. Together, this solves 2 most frequently talked about issues after the app crashing.

----------


## dakotahnok

*This looks awesome. I hope something like this comes for the iPhone/iPad.*

----------


## Wolf2

A much better looking graph from last night.




Very interestingly I managed to sleep for 24.8 hours  :smiley: .  Something might have gone a weeee bit wrong in the statistics.

For some reason no reminders played again (had no problems with this in the old version).  I also set up the other timer that vibrates, set it randomly for maybe 4 hours I think, not sure if it went off (would it show in the graph?).  

Also maybe I'm missing something here, but how do you do the math puzzle?  Or is it not out yet?

I also noticed when I started the app the brightness set itself to 10%, very good idea!  Didn't notice that the night before but it really helps.  Crazy idea but - since it won't work with the screen off, can maybe after a minute of the app starting the brightness drop to 0% (or 1?  Can it even go that low?) then tapping the screen will bring the brightness up to 10% or whatever so you can enter gestures etc and then dim again after a minute?  It's fine how it is don't get me wrong, but just an idea for those that don't like any light at all.

----------


## Ev

Hi Wolf, 

One of the things that I have to for the app is create good documentation. Some of the features that you are talking about are already in the app, but there's no user notification that they are available. Furthermore, I keep shuffling the preferences menu.

1) To change brightness to 1% (screen shuts off at 0) go to menu>preferences> Display and data logging options> Screen Brightness adjustment. 1% is really dim, I can sleep 12" from the phone, facing the phone and not know it's on! 
2) As for the 24.8 hour sleep, that's really awesome! I wish I could sleep like that  :tongue2:   Unfortunately I fixed that bug for the 0.7 release, so it should not happen again. This error also screwed up the pie chart. 
3) To do the math puzzle, you need to enter an M letter gesture (drawn from left to right). Or you can go to preferences> edit gestures and create your own gesture called "math". 
4)As for the vibrate, in my tests there was no significant correlation between playing vibrate reminder and accelerometer readings when a phone is on a bed. 
5)Sorry about reminders not being played, there are 3 possible reasons. The most likely one is that your reminders are set to play "after movement", but since your app thinks you are not moving enough ( long continuous blue lines), it will not play the reminder during those episodes. Consider changing your reminder to "at event start" or "at event end" or go  preferences>rem prediction>activity threshold and set it to like 2(right now it's 10). Other possible reasons may be:  the test build that you are using. In that the REM events are disabled by default (if you are using a smart timer), or a sound file is missing. When the app plays a reminder, it places a purple X on the graph where it was played. Also, the default mode for those events is play sound "after movement". 

Here's an example:
The I can disable event reminders at 3:45 and 5:50, but enable one at 4:30 



To test your smart timer and see if it will work, you can configure it, then go to app home screen (with Androids)> menu> view data> history> create history. The new history file that will be created (if you have graphs) will show you where the reminder would've been played for each of the past nights with the current Smart Timer setup. This way, you can see how changes to the Smart Timer would work before going to bed. Here's more info with screenshots (still have to be updated :/) Configure Smart Timer » Lucid Dreaming App


Here's the result (Red line shows an episode of insomnia - writing in bed). The events that we disabled produced no reminder. If you look at the event at 6:50, it is set up to go off after movement. In the April 29th there was movement during that episode, while during the last night there was. As a result, the reminder is not triggered for the last night at 6:50

----------


## Wolf2

Ok wow heaps of information to get through in your post there thanks.  Will go through it step by step tonight before bed and try a few things you suggested.

Will quickly add that the app crashed after about 3 hours last night and gave me a graph similar to the funny looking one I had in post #39.

Will let you know how I get on tomorrow after doing some adjusting that you mentioned.  Thanks.

EDIT:

Here's the graph from last night I was talking about.  And I went into the history page (didn't know it existed, have still yet to go through all the instructions sorry) and here's what it produced.  Will work my way through the timer adjustment page you linked to when I get a chance.

----------


## Wolf2

Well to make up for sleeping for 24.8 hours the other night, the app decided to tell me I slept for 0.0 hours last night.




No idea why the graph starts back around 7am, I know it certainly wasn't started then.  Although when I woke up, I hit save, then quit.  And when I looked at the graph, the time on it was labeled the time that I saved/quit it rather than the time it was started.

----------


## 317

EV and Wolf,

Sorry about my absence, I've been playing catchup with life lately and I will be out of town this weekend also. I have the new version downloaded, I can report no crashes for 8 hour span as of last night through this morning.

I do have a question though. In the calibration process, is it mandatory that the device lay on the bed while calibrating? Isn't this just giving it a "0" rest position, so you could also calibrate it on any flat surface?

Thanks!
317

----------


## Ev

I've found a couple issues with the new architecture and attempted to fix them for the new release 0.7.1 (probably on Friday)

On top of that, there will be several new cool features:

*New flashing strobe* (user configurable) - screen lights up and changes from dark to light background (default is lightning image)Ability to use voice, vibrate and light in any combination. Seeing lightning flash synchronized to phone vibration is really cool!New interface for interacting with the Smart Timer and WILD timer - the context menu still works, the new menu is better and has extra space for instructions.*Ability to take full page screenshots* - saves both the graph, pie chart, statistics, etc.Various bug fixes, stability improvements

Bright strobe:

Dim strobe:


The best thing is these images are just html pages with an image attribute, so you may create your own light/dark images and flash them (maybe even with subliminal effect ?)
Here's a single monstrous full page screenshot, (option to take will be available in the new menu, will be found in /sdcard/application data/lucid dreaming app/screenshots)

----------


## Acetylene

Tried this yesterday and nothing happened and the graph had a straight line going through it. Was it down to me turning the screen off before sleeping?

----------


## Ev

In the current version of Android, the accelerometer does not work when the screen is off or power button is pressed. The app has a real hard time recovering from that. The way I use the app is to start it and leave it showing the clock screen on the bed for the night. Then it works. 

Here's a link on configuring the app, it may help. I was updating a couple documentation pages today: 
Record an effective voice reminder » Lucid Dreaming App
Analyze Data » Lucid Dreaming App
They should also have fresh information on how to work with the app.

I hope this helps!

Here's another explanation why nothing might've happened:
when you first install the app, it's config has all events disabled, you need to:
press menu button> pick "preferences" from the menu on screen> select "REM Prediction preferences">Select Smart Timer Config file> activate events that you want. That's quite a lot of menus to navigate... the app used to be so much simpler... 


*Here's one more thing that I wanted to add for the upcoming update:* 
Ability to monitor sound levels! The app will be able to continuously track sound levels throughout the night and display this data. As far as I've seen, this is a brand new technology, noone has used it for sleep scoring, or published papers on that. I'll have to invent an algorithm to take the number of sound peaks into account when doing sleep scoring...

This image shows regular activity over 7 hours of sleep and adds the kurtosis of the audio level. When sudden noises are detected, they stand out from the rest of the relatively uniform noise distribution and raise the kurtosis. Here an increase in noise level is seen for about 30 minutes before a dream is reported at 5:30, 7:30 and 9:20.

----------


## Ev

I've published a new version to market - V0.7.1
New flashing strobe (user configurable) - screen lights up and changes from dark to light background (default is lightning image)Ability to use voice, vibrate and light in any combination. Seeing lightning flash synchronized to phone vibration is really cool!New interface for interacting with the Smart Timer and WILD timer - the context menu still works, the new menu is better and has extra space for instructions.Ability to take full page screenshots - saves both the graph, pie chart, statistics, etc.Various bug fixes, stability improvementsUse microphone to monitor noise level

----------


## LucidBurner

I found this just the other night before even seeing this thread, but it force closed every time I tried to open it.  :Sad:

----------


## LucidBurner

Also, many kudos for toiling over such an app. Great apps like this are few and far between.  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

> I found this just the other night before even seeing this thread, but it force closed every time I tried to open it.



Hey LucidBurner, it's sad to hear that the app closes immediately upon opening. Just out of curiocity, do you have a storage card inserted in your phone? In either case, would you be able to run the app 3 more times or so? This way the Android market will send me a crash report, saying what is causing this issue, so it can be timely fixed. 

Thank you for the complement!

----------


## LucidBurner

I flashed my phone the other night and since then the app works great. So no crash report.  :tongue2:

----------


## Wolf2

Just want to say I had my first lucid dream with this app the other night.  Looked at the graph and there was a reminder played just before I had entered the lucid dream gesture.

----------


## Ev

It's great to hear of your success!

Nice to know that some phones may be at fault, and not the app itself  :tongue2:  This fills me with hope.

----------


## QuietWhun

I have a question on this app. I have been using it all of last week, but I don't think the remind is playing. What do I do if the audio file is missing? or am I supposed to download the audio separately?  Thanks!

----------


## TeaSea

> I have a question on this app. I have been using it all of last week, but I don't think the remind is playing. What do I do if the audio file is missing? or am I supposed to download the audio separately?  Thanks!



You can use an app called "Hi-Q MP3 Recorder" to record your own reminder. It's available free on the android market.

----------


## QuietWhun

> You can use an app called "Hi-Q MP3 Recorder" to record your own reminder. It's available free on the android market.



Thanks exactly what I needed!

----------


## TeaSea

> Thanks exactly what I needed!



Good, hope the app works for you  :smiley:

----------


## catzisconfus

hello, could you please upload the apk for me, because apparantly my android does not support market ...

----------


## Ev

Hi catz,
I put the apk here: Index of /appdata I'll periodically upload new versions there as well.

----------


## Ev

I've been in the middle of moving to a different state for a job, so I could not work on the app that much. 
Still, today I published an updated to V0.7.3.
One of the major features of this update is the ability to upload data from the app to my server. I hope that this data may be processed and the secrets of lucidity unlocked, either by me or some other aspiring sleep researcher. 

A couple new features in this release are the addition of a smart timer GUI - now it shows when reminders are scheduled to play, and when the app looks for user events to adjust itself. It's pretty cool, and there are extra checks to make sure the reminder is properly configured.

New users may find the new "quickstart" process a bit easier to deal with than the old interface. Now there are step by step explanations on how to use the app. 

I hope you will find this app useful, and please keep the suggestions/feature requests coming!

----------


## zhineTech

KUDOS FOR THIS. I can tell a lot of time and work has gone into it. Just started experimenting with it this weekend. I started it up, got up a few times and wrote down some dreams and their times. I must say the logs seemed to be right on the spot. I'm amazed by how much is packed into this. 

It definitely has room to grow and i will be doing some testing and posting on my results, suggestions, and questions. First, im going to go back and read through this thread again.

I'm on the original droid. The calibrate worked great and the app seems to run fine.

----------


## zhineTech

I love this. I have been digging in a bit and read through the links. I think I've got my head around it, I just want to clarify.

Ok, first my questions:

1-The REM and hypnogram displayed in the history are pre-set defaults, correct? They are not calculated from user data?

2-When you say that smart timer predicts the next REM event, are you meaning that it adjusts the timing you have entered against events? (Like if you set it for 3 hours and then you wake up for 10 minutes, the reminder will actually play 3 hours and 10 minutes later? Does it use activity levels for this or user event entries or both?)

3-A predicted REM event is based on your entries in the config, ie 90 mins and for 10 minutes long (as long as no previous event has shifted these?) During this period does the clock turn blue? 

4-Why do the smart timer events look for activity levels? Wouldn't you be in sleep paralysis and NOT moving during an REM episode?


Now my suggestions. I'm approaching this with a "simplest user" type of critique, things that would make it easier for the large number of lazy folks out there to use out of the box:

1-Include a pre-recorded voice reminder. Really, just do it. Anything is better than nothing and the instant most people see they need to download another app and / or record something themselves they are gonna bolt.

2-I'm looking through my graphs. I have to do something else on the phone / the screen goes dark through inactivity / etc. Then when I come back to the app, I have to reload my graph. Could you make it persist instead of going back to the help screen?

3-The clock. Even though I changed my font size to tiny (10%) it still doesn't display the AM / PM correctly. No biggie, but it doesn't look as professional that way. Also, if there was any way to make the clock even darker / off and then when you touch the screen have the brightness ramp up momentarily that would be sweet. In my pitch black room it's still annoyingly bright. I will test it tonight with the smaller font and I have made the clock color red, which is supposed to be better for night vision. If there was a way to set the clock color to a muted gray or blue that might be better too.

4-REM timer config. If there was any way to color an activated event green and a de-activated event red this would make scanning through that list of text a lot easier.

That's all I've thought of for now. These questions and suggestions are in the spirit of improving the app and giving feedback. It is an amazing piece of work and I look forward to getting more acquainted with it!

----------


## zhineTech

Ahh yes, i've thought of something else I was wondering.

Once my reminder is triggered, does the event length affect the recording? Like if my recording is a 30min file and the event is 20 minutes long, does it truncate the playing file?
If they reminders are triggered multiple times (by movement for example) will the recordings overlap or start over?

----------


## Ev

> I love this. I have been digging in a bit and read through the links. I think I've got my head around it, I just want to clarify.
> 
> Ok, first my questions:
> 
> 1-The REM and hypnogram displayed in the history are pre-set defaults, correct? They are not calculated from user data?
> 
> 2-When you say that smart timer predicts the next REM event, are you meaning that it adjusts the timing you have entered against events? (Like if you set it for 3 hours and then you wake up for 10 minutes, the reminder will actually play 3 hours and 10 minutes later? Does it use activity levels for this or user event entries or both?)
> 
> 3-A predicted REM event is based on your entries in the config, ie 90 mins and for 10 minutes long (as long as no previous event has shifted these?) During this period does the clock turn blue? 
> ...




Hey zhine, thank you for liking the app! 

To answer your questions: 
1) The hypnogram is a pre-set image, transcribed from a wikipedia article on sleep. It fit very nicely with my data, that's why I left it there. Nothing is calculated from the user data. When I get to look at more graphs, maybe I"ll figure a way to predict events better. 

2) You are correct. If you set an event at 1:30, and an event at 3:00, and the first dream you report is at 1:40, the next event will be at 3:10. The App counts user events to either delay or advance the next REM event. The app can also look for low elevated activity within 12 minutes from the start of an REM event and make the event start up to 8 minutes earlier (depends on the calibration settings)

3)Yes, predicted events are based on config unless shifted by previous events or motion. The clock does turn blue. 

4)As far as I understand, the body is in atonia during REM. The body is paralyzed. The EMG is at the low.  I think there may be involuntary motion associated with brain activity during light sleep. There's a 2-3 minute delay between the sleep being scored and the reminder played (I might've changed that in the latest release, so it plays immidiately), so the reminder *may* be played when the activity has stopped.


As for your suggestions, they are good
1) I added the default alarm as a default reminder. I can guarantee that anything recorded in my voice is not going to help you become lucid  :tongue2:  Just record something or use it as a reminder, the app even lets you pick some ringtones as a reminder  :smiley: 

2) Thank you for the recommendation, I have not caught that, as most of my development time is while the phone is plugged in! 

3) Sorry about the clock, that is the limitation of a 7 segment monospace LCD font. A 14 segment monospace LCD font will display AM and PM properly, but I do not have such font. The 14 segment LCD fonts that I do have are not monospace, so they cause the digits to shift with each second passing, which is more annoying  :Sad:  You can lower the screen brightness to 1% in preferences (the new default), and set the clock color to very deep blue, it's really dark. As for extra colors, I'm using a pre- built color wheel, which really did not like my modifications, so I left it as is .

4) The version 0.7.3 colors active events as green, inactive events as Red and also shows the reminders if they are properly configured! Check out that feature, it took me quite a long time to get it done  :smiley:  


Most of my reminders are 10 seconds long, so I have not tested with longer reminders. The code that I have in place does check if the reminder is playing. If it is, the old recording will stop playing and the new recording will begin. 

Just out of curiosity, what are you playing that's 30 minutes long?

----------


## zhineTech

thanks for getting back to me. i have version 0.7.1. i will grab the new version today.





> Hey zhine, thank you for liking the app! 
> 
> To answer your questions: 
> 1) The hypnogram is a pre-set image, transcribed from a wikipedia article on sleep. It fit very nicely with my data, that's why I left it there. Nothing is calculated from the user data. When I get to look at more graphs, maybe I"ll figure a way to predict events better.



thanks for making it! its an amazing app.

1) the default hypnogram is still useful (in my version it cuts off at around the 6:30 mark,) but a prediction for user REM is ultimately what we are after.  i think you could add a simple REM prediction algorithm by looking at the times of dreams and awakenings and then going back by a certain amount of minutes depending on how many hours have progressed.





> 4)As far as I understand, the body is in atonia during REM. The body is paralyzed. The EMG is at the low.  I think there may be involuntary motion associated with brain activity during light sleep. There's a 2-3 minute delay between the sleep being scored and the reminder played (I might've changed that in the latest release, so it plays immidiately), so the reminder *may* be played when the activity has stopped.



4) so the "after movement - (DILD, DEILD) setting is attempting to find movement in non-REM sleep then delay the alarm. ok. makes sense.





> As for your suggestions, they are good
> 1) I added the default alarm as a default reminder. I can guarantee that anything recorded in my voice is not going to help you become lucid  Just record something or use it as a reminder, the app even lets you pick some ringtones as a reminder




1)in my version there is no default alarm set. this suggestion isnt for me, its more for end users. in looking at your market place reviews i see a comment about this twice in just the three most recent reviews. maybe you can have a female friend record something (i feel like a female voice would be ... better). *or better yet, get a lovely female oneironaut from the forums here to record one for you!*





> 3) Sorry about the clock, that is the limitation of a 7 segment monospace LCD font. A 14 segment monospace LCD font will display AM and PM properly, but I do not have such font. The 14 segment LCD fonts that I do have are not monospace, so they cause the digits to shift with each second passing, which is more annoying  You can lower the screen brightness to 1% in preferences (the new default), and set the clock color to very deep blue, it's really dark. As for extra colors, I'm using a pre- built color wheel, which really did not like my modifications, so I left it as is .



No need to be sorry. the font thing is again, pushing for a professional look. i messed with it last night at 1% and it turns out the real brightness issue is coming from the control buttons on the bottom of the phone. they are a bright white. i put a thin strip of fabric over the screen and it seemed to help. i dont think this will affect the readings too much.





> 4) The version 0.7.3 colors active events as green, inactive events as Red and also shows the reminders if they are properly configured! Check out that feature, it took me quite a long time to get it done



4)Sweet! Nice work. I love it when requests are granted even before they are made!





> Most of my reminders are 10 seconds long, so I have not tested with longer reminders. The code that I have in place does check if the reminder is playing. If it is, the old recording will stop playing and the new recording will begin. 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what are you playing that's 30 minutes long?



well, i had this idea that one could record and playback anything starting at a predicted REM cycle. music, audio books, a walk through of a dream scenario, meditative tones, binaurals, etc and see how they affected your dreams and later sleep stages.

if you wanted wider marketplace play you could eventually tout this as more than just a lucid dreaming app. it is a sleep tracker and a timer for delivering any type of audio you want within a specific predicted sleep phase. you could help people with sleep apnea, insomnia, and sleep disorders. you could playback delta wave binaurals during deep sleep. you can teach people spanish in their sleep! etc

just for the record, i dont put a lot of stock in binaural beats for "inducing" lucid dreams, but i do feel they have some kind of effect on your consciousness. also, i know that sleep learning complicated subjects isnt going to happen, but who know if something like hearing spanish while you are asleep may improve your ability to consciously learn it during the day.

*adds these items to research list*

----------


## Tibincrunch

I'm just getting back into LD'ing and saw this app on the marketplace. I was surprised to see you on these forums, very cool! I skimmed this thread (as there's a ton of info) and was just curious, would this be okay to run with a tablet or should I really be using my phone? I have both but would prefer tablet if possible. I will be running the setup soon and I already downloaded the app to submit for science. Awesome job with all of this!

----------


## zhineTech

ive been using this the last few days and have had some issues. i did get the latest version.

question: does the lightning flash for the entire time you set the REM period to be? is there a way to escape the lightning? (lol)

ive woken up and the audio reminder is off, but the lightning is still flashing. and it keeps flashing, forever it seems. when thats going on, i cant use any gestures, the phone seems super hot, i have to force close the app, and the reminders are not marked on my graph.

ive been messing with it a bit today by laying it on my desk and setting the first reminder to go off a few minutes later. but it doesnt seem to go off if i set it to 1 or 3 minutes. im going to keep experimenting with it and may simply not use the flashing.

but it seems like it sort of worked, cause i woke up during a dream, but i could not mark it with my gestures.

----------


## Ev

Hey guys!

There's nothing preventing you from using a tablet. It may respond a bit differently to vibration though. The phone may be a bit more sensitive than the tablet because it is smaller. 

As for the lightning, the default duration is 30 seconds, after which it should stop. If it showed for longer, that is a bug, and will have to be fixed. You may escape the lightning by pressing the "back" button on your phone. 

As for the reminders not going off after 1 minute, check to see if they show up in the Smart timer gui. If they do, check if they are set to go off "on motion". If so, they won't play for very short reminders. You need to change them to "on event start" or "on "event end"

----------


## Cephas

Hi Ev!

Great app! I bumped in you app while surfing in the app market, that's what made me find this forum. Thanks  :smiley: 

I'm still studying the app and seeing how it can help me achieving LDs.

What I wanted to ask is that my graphs during the night show a continuous line of Sleep Episodes. Wasn't I suposed to wake up after dreams? If I don't I can't insert user events when I dream and I can't predict my REMs.
When I start tracking in the morning I see that at the beginning of the graph the Sleep Episode line goes up and then it stays constant until I wake up in the morning for work.

I'll try to get a screenshot here.

Any ideias?

----------


## Ev

Hey Cephas, 
It sounds like the app is not calibrated properly, or the sleep scoring constant is too low, resulting in sleep being scored incorrectly. You can take a screen shot of your graph in main screen> "view graphs" and email it to bugreport at lucid dreaming app dot com !

----------


## Cephas

Hi Ev!

So what must I do?

For calibration I placed my mobile on a flat surface (table) and calibrated for 15min. I don't understand why but I'll try to do it on my bed.

Regarding the Sleep Scoring Constant. I believe this is the "Set Sleep Score Activity Threshold", I have it set for 13 activity counts. What value should I try? After changing this I have to "Override Cole Constant" right?

I can't post screenshots here, I need to be registered for at least 7 days. I'm also sending this to the e-mail you said. 

Thank you.

----------


## Sugabombs

Oh wow this would be really cool on the iPhone. Great work!

----------


## kookyinc

Will try. I hope this works. Even if not, it seems much better than the other LD apps I've seen.

----------


## kookyinc

After about a week of calibration (my sleep schedule is so erratic it probably needed this much time to finally work), I came close to having an LD. This morning, a few minutes into a dream, the app woke me up with the reminder. I had everything on, sound, vibrate, and light flashes, but the fact that the reminder played after a few minutes into my sleep was excellent, and all I need to do is work out some kinks in the reminder.

Excellent work, this app works. Also, double post ftw.

----------


## TeaSea

> Hi Ev!
> 
> So what must I do?
> 
> For calibration I placed my mobile on a flat surface (table) and calibrated for 15min. I don't understand why but I'll try to do it on my bed.
> 
> Regarding the Sleep Scoring Constant. I believe this is the "Set Sleep Score Activity Threshold", I have it set for 13 activity counts. What value should I try? After changing this I have to "Override Cole Constant" right?
> 
> I can't post screenshots here, I need to be registered for at least 7 days. I'm also sending this to the e-mail you said. 
> ...



I'd say do the calibration on your bed; that's how I calibrated it.

----------


## rocker340

Hey I've got a quick Question, my graph from last night recorded three normal dreams and one lucid, does the app only record dreams when the user draws the gestures or is it predicting i had the dream, because I do not recall the dreams or writing the gestures. btw all the dreams were at the end of sleep episodes.

----------


## marwanin

EV

please make it works on Firmware 1.1

I got A problem Install unseccessful  :Eek: 

i don't know why

----------


## rocker340

And isnt this harmful to our bodies considering we are leaving a device thats produces EMFs right next to us for the entire night and we all know that EMFs can be harmful to our bodies so im no longer going to be using this cuz i dont like brain tumors loll

----------


## Kitties

I just got this last night, it seems great. I guess I'll have to use it a few more nights before I can say if it helps. The sleep data is interesting though. It marked a few Xs where apparently it played reminders even though mine were off, is it supposed to?

I only noticed a couple problems - when I quit the app this morning, the little yellow ! about activity monitoring in my notifications stayed there, even when I cleared it. This was inadvertently fixed when I accidentally started the app again and quit immediately after. ^^; That could just be my phone, though.

Also, I only did the quick calibration before using it last night, and wanted to try doing the extended one this morning, but both times I tried, it gave me an error and I had to force close. Are you supposed to be able to do it more than once? I thought it might improve the accuracy. I can send an error report about this if it'll help?

Awesome work though, thanks for this~

----------


## zhineTech

> And isnt this harmful to our bodies considering we are leaving a device thats produces EMFs right next to us for the entire night and we all know that EMFs can be harmful to our bodies so im no longer going to be using this cuz i dont like brain tumors loll



i hope you dont use a microwave then.

the micro from phones are negligible compared to other sources, but i too have reservations about leaving it on and close all night long.

i used it for a several nights to establish my sleep cycles, and then now i just use the reminders occasionally and leave it on my desk.

so far it wakes me up from dreams, plays when i have just awoken from a dream, or i miss it entirely, nothing has made it through to my dreams that i am aware of. but i will keep tweaking the volume and placement. 

i continue to have problems like the lightning continues to flash and the status icons stay on. when i press the back button to exit it just goes to the homescreen, i cant get back into the app without restarting it.

----------


## zhineTech

> I just got this last night, it seems great. I guess I'll have to use it a few more nights before I can say if it helps. The sleep data is interesting though. It marked a few Xs where apparently it played reminders even though mine were off, is it supposed to?
> 
> Awesome work though, thanks for this~



if you do the sleep history option, there is a demo file in there that already has data. it took me a minute to figure out i had to delete it to only see my personal graphs.

----------


## Kitties

> if you do the sleep history option, there is a demo file in there that already has data. it took me a minute to figure out i had to delete it to only see my personal graphs.



Hmm, I do see the demo graph there, but I was just looking at a single one, not the history option, and the sample one has 'sample' in the file name. The date and times and everything match up with my sleep, there are just Xs on the graph and the stats underneath say it played 3 reminders. I didn't hear any, though.

----------


## niguy

this app sounds awesome but just force closes on my xperia mini  :Sad:

----------


## Castles

This is one of the many "Lucid Dreamign apps" I have on my Android device, it was even the first one. I must say with all the data and information that is featured in this application I am surprised it is free. Before I downloaded I went through and read all of the reviews (I like reading reviews..) and I am sorry that you get negative reviews from people who don't even know how to work the application. It really is a great application with a lot of potential. Good job.

----------


## zhineTech

> I am sorry that you get negative reviews from people who don't even know how to work the application. It really is a great application with a lot of potential. Good job.



+1

----------


## cotte

I don't know if anyone else had this problem (searched thread but found no results). 

Tried this app for the first time last night and in the morning I did the awake gesture and stopped the sleep tracking, got a graph in the graph section so it seem like it did register my sleep that night, but later on the day I noticed that in the status bar there was a line saying something similiar to "noise level is tracked through microphone, press to stop" so I tried to stop it by pressing but it didn't disappear and later that day I noticed that it made a phone call not work properly (the person I was calling to could not hear me) so I rebooted and everything went fine. Am I the only one who's gotten this bug / problem, am I doing something wrong when I stop the tracker in the morning?

Besides that I must say this is a brilliant application, I am looking forward to using it for real after some days of testing.

----------


## Fedd

Hey! Great app! 

I installed it 2 nights ago on my Galaxy S and here are some problems/suggestions:

1) Sleep episodes is one straight line from falling asleep to waking up, i guess this is a calibration issue? Sleep score is at a constant zero once i fall asleep...

2) Audio level had 1 spike in each night. This probably is when a person i live with leaves (the door is pretty noisy), apart from that: zero for the rest of the sleeping duration. Audio level kurtosis is going crazy however: for about 1-1.5 hours of when i fall asleep its fairly low, after that there are many spikes.. this could result from cars driving down the road, however i find it weird that there is no recording of audio level, but a lot of data for kurtosis

3) I woke up in the early morning after a dream and did the arrow the wrong way.. it would be neat if there was a way to change or delete user events when looking at the graph. That way you could correct events that you inserted by mistake

4) What is the XYZ Activity count? I have seen it in other peoples graphs here in the threat (mine is constant zero). Maybe you could add a little explaination as to what the values mean. Maybe you could make the text on the "Welcome to Graph Viewer" page a little more detailed? This would also be a great place to give the user some info on how to interpret the graph

Keep up the good work! This is pretty awesome and has lots of potential i think

----------


## Fedd

Forget my questions regarding XYZ Activity count.. fairly obvious now that i think about it. Same for the sleep score problem, i realize I should have read the material on your website before asking stupid questions  :smiley: 

I guess my problems resulted from the fact that 
a) I only did the quick calibartion
b) I left my Galaxy S i9000 in a case i got for protection.. this probably also absorbed some of the shocks that the app is trying to measure.. so maybe that would be another suggestion: Remind stupid people like me to take their phone out of any protective casings etc so that you can gather the "original" data

Now I have run the extended calibration a few times to see whats going on and to understand how the app works.. also looked at the List-view when I let it collect data the way it is supposed to during nights. During that I have attempted to fiddle with the R value a little bit, but not much, as I dont really understand where I should be looking for the results.. i put it back to the standard values. 
On that occasion i noticed a bug: When you want to change a value, in the text field it sais 0000400 for example, not 0,000400. In order to effectively change the value you have to delete the entire value and write 0.000500 for example. Notice that you need to put a . not a , eventhough the textfield displays the value with a comma. Somehow it also is very reluctant to accept changes.. specifically i changed the value once, wanted to change it back and now it wont work.. Just wanted to let you know.

Anyway, I uninstalled in app, rebooted my phone and reinstalled it, just to be sure everything is back to normal. 

I will try to calibrate properly and see if it works now

One more question about the sampling rate.. the text below the button is cut off because its too long to display, so it only says "Picking lower value may improve performance on". I suppose this goes on with "older phones" or something? So picking Fast is generally the best option if your phone is fast? I think the Samsung Galaxy is rather fast, so I should probably put this on fast right? Just checking to make sure  :wink2:

----------


## tommo

I never thought I'd get a smart phone.  But I think I have a reason to now, with this and IAmCoder's apps.

----------


## Ev

Hey guys and girls,

I've been very busy at work, where I'm doing iPhone development. This leaves very little time for android development. Once I settle down, I'll take a look at the app again. Right now the development effort is on hold. 

To answer a few questions:
1) the ! in the notification bar - this is a bug I know of, and the way to avoid it is to use "exit" menu item on the clock screen. Alternatively, you may terminate the sound analyzer services from your android settings>applications>running services
2) Fedd, you are seeing commas as a decimal delimiter as a result of regional settings. The internal logic would try to process the number expecting commas. This article has info on how to adjust the R , it is a 2 step process.
3) If you are concerned about cell phone radiation, put the phone in airplane mode (I have to hold the power button on my phone to see this option)

The sampling rate asks the device to provide accelerometer updates at normal or fast pace. Normal is ~1200 times per minute on my HTC HD2, fast is 2400 . In general, it does not matter which option you pick, as the major body movements will be detected either way.

----------


## Fedd

Since my post the app has been working great, producing some pretty realistic looking data.. i just had to lower the threshold value a bit.
Now I just have to get my self to wake up and make use of the user-events function so that I can adjust the reminders.

Anyway, thank you for the answers to my questions.. i kinda suspected the thing with the comma  :smiley:  just wanted to point out a "bug"

Thanks again for all the effort you put into this so far! 
Once you continue the development: You know where to find beta testers hehe  :wink2:

----------


## spookyfox

Is this only for Android? I have iPod Touch  :Sad:

----------


## Fedd

yeah its only for android. no iphone version so far.

----------


## Ev

After working in iPhone development for a couple months, it appears that the same level of data would be difficult to achieve in an iPhone app. Sure, iPhone looks very pretty and its multimedia capabilities are good. But a lot of things that make the lucid dreaming app possible, such as background services are missing from iPhone. For all intents and purposes, an iPhone is a single app system, there's very little support for background activity (hence the long battery life). 

if there will be an iPhone app, it would surely cost around 6$ for the same level of sophistication (if that is possible). There are just too many obstacles to overcome and BS to deal with when developing an apple product  :Sad:

----------


## Mathias

My phone won't calibrate.. can you help?

----------


## Hyu

This app looks amazing. o_o
I really need to get myself a droid.
I'm still using an old symbian s60v5. :/

----------


## Rozollo

> After working in iPhone development for a couple months, it appears that the same level of data would be difficult to achieve in an iPhone app. Sure, iPhone looks very pretty and its multimedia capabilities are good. But a lot of things that make the lucid dreaming app possible, such as background services are missing from iPhone. For all intents and purposes, an iPhone is a single app system, there's very little support for background activity (hence the long battery life). 
> 
> if there will be an iPhone app, it would surely cost around 6$ for the same level of sophistication (if that is possible). There are just too many obstacles to overcome and BS to deal with when developing an apple product



The joys of open source summarized in a single post.

I am giving the app another chance since I had to factory reset my phone.  So far, I am loving the info sheet when you click the I.  So much information right there.  My problem is my Droid Inc. hangs on the extended calibration, and the quick calibration ends with it back on the info sheet or the settings page, not the clock.  Any idea what I am doing wrong?  On the extended calibration, it stopped with a full bar and I had 4 graphs.  Was I wrong in stopping it?

I didn't review last night to see if I had any data, so I'll check that shortly.

Also, would it be beneficial if I wait and collect a week's worth of data first?

*Suggestion*: What if there was an optional setting where throughout the day it used Puffin's Sat, pending her approval? 

The idea would be that randomly every two hours (not exact each time), you get a notification to do an awareness practice.

----------


## Ev

> The joys of open source summarized in a single post.
> 
> I am giving the app another chance since I had to factory reset my phone.  So far, I am loving the info sheet when you click the I.  So much information right there.  My problem is my Droid Inc. hangs on the extended calibration, and the quick calibration ends with it back on the info sheet or the settings page, not the clock.  Any idea what I am doing wrong?  On the extended calibration, it stopped with a full bar and I had 4 graphs.  Was I wrong in stopping it?
> 
> I didn't review last night to see if I had any data, so I'll check that shortly.
> 
> Also, would it be beneficial if I wait and collect a week's worth of data first?
> 
> *Suggestion*: What if there was an optional setting where throughout the day it used Puffin's Sat, pending her approval? 
> ...




The extended calibration does quick calibration, followed by data collection to plot the accelerometer output in 3 graphs: X,Y and Z planes. Give the app some time and it will start showing how the accelerometer behaves. This is intended to show how the accelerometer filtering works. If you get a lot of jittery output, and the activity count under the graph is high (>10) while the phone is laying still, you need to adjust the value of R (process noise covariance), multiply it by 10 for high, divide by 10 for low. After a couple of attempts, you will find a good value of R for your phone. 

You can start calibration from preferences as well, the quick calibration would finish and return to preferences. The reason why the app sometimes mentions the clock after the calibration is that some first time users had trouble finding the calibration option, so I put it up front. 

Before you spend a whole week collecting data, you need to make sure that your data is good. The app's output (sleep score) has to be below zero for the most of the night with large spikes produced by movement. If the output is jittery, you need to re-calibrate the app. 

As for the Puffin's technique, there's already a reality checker app out there that pops prompts to do a reality check.

*Right now I'm working on a separate, although related app: Awareness plus.* It is intended to make you more aware of your emotions, as they take place within you. The app asks you to describe emotions as they take place within you. So if I feel bored, I describe how that feels, what actions I'm likely to engage in, and what's the source of the boredom. Together, this may be a good supplement to other all day awareness techniques, because being aware of emotions is a really good reason to become aware in general. 
 If anyone wants to beta test that, I'd love to hear your feedback.

----------


## Rozollo

I think you should consider integrating that into this one for a truly definitive lucid dreaming app.  Even taking that reality checker idea (with their permission) could really complete the package.  I feel too often when someone wants to start something like this they have to collect too many resources, so creating a suite would be so helpful.

I started it already for tonight with the quick configuration.  I'll check that my sleep score is under 1 tomorrow.  One suggest I have is maybe make a digital read out of this data (like a simple spreadsheet layout WITH a graph available through the menu).  I hate graphical displays for values as the sole reference because they are sometimes hard to read.

Final question, if I calibrate, should I be in the bed when it does it?  Could I even calibrate it on say a desk so it is completely still or is the bed/me in it integral?

Thanks for being so open to suggestions and being available to help.  It means a lot.

----------


## Chriskozlak

Is it fine if I sleep with the app under my pillow?

Also, which technique do you recommend? I can't have any sound notifications only vibrate so I don't wake people up. I'm a big wild kinda guy but it takes too long. I know this app has many great functions and I don't know what to use.

Thank you in advance and keep up the amazing work on this app. Is works flawlessly for me.

----------


## Fedd

I sleep on a matress thats made of some foam that adjusts really well to bodyshape and absorbs shocks, so i had problems recording data when putting the thing near my pillow

As a suggestion to people with similar problems: Dont put the phone next to your head, but rather next to your pelvis/upper thighs.  If you move in bed, this is the place where the most of your weight is.. and thus the area where the matress is most likely to be compressed.. and this is what the app measures after all

Chris: Maybe you could use headphones
TheKing: I think the most important thing about calibration is that the phone isnt moved. It doesnt really matter whether its done on a table or on the bed.. the app only needs to find the "standard" values of the individual phones acceleratometer

----------


## Emiko

> And isnt this harmful to our bodies considering we are leaving a device thats produces EMFs right next to us for the entire night and we all know that EMFs can be harmful to our bodies so im no longer going to be using this cuz i dont like brain tumors loll



I minimize this problem as best I can by always setting my phone to Airplane Mode (all wireless communication with all networks is turned off) before starting the app.

Tonight will be my fifth night of use of this app. I thought I turned on reminders last night (audio only), like I was supposed to, but apparently not, because they didn't play. I'll try again tonight.

----------


## Emiko

I tried again last night, and this time I got the reminders to play.  The first one was sound-only, and I didn't hear it at all. The second one was sound and vibration, and happened during a time when I wasn't even asleep.  Fixes I need to make:
- Figure out more precisely when my actual REM periods should be, based on my history files
- Move the reminders to match the times
- Go back into Audacity and amp up my "lucid.mp3" sound file a lot (it's too soft to hear over the sound of the phone vibrating), or just pick another one

----------


## Shaman1982

It's possible to use this app for me when I sleep with my wife in same bed? It would probably catch movement of both of us, it's possible to configure it the way, that it will be not so sensitive?
Does anybody using it this way?

----------


## zhineTech

i use it with my partner and it does surprisingly well, i didnt have to adjust anything after the initial calibration. i can clearly see when i wake up, move etc. i put it at the top of the bed in front of my pillow.

----------


## RBee

THANK YOU for coding this app! Excellent work! And 1,000 thanks for going with Android! I absolutely HATE that iPhone!

----------


## RBee

> One suggest I have is maybe make a digital read out of this data (like a simple spreadsheet layout WITH a graph available through the menu).  I hate graphical displays for values as the sole reference because they are sometimes hard to read.



I must agree here! Option to export a simple plaintext CSV data file with all of the data to the SD card would be an excellent feature! Someone mentioned a 'suite' of tools in one app. Dream journals, reality checker, etc. all in one place would be a definite plus, but so far this is great without it!

----------


## Ev

To  answer a few questions:
1) The app keeps a running CSV log of the activity count with timestamp. It is located in /Application Data/ Lucid Dreaming App/ Log
2) Distinguishing between the partner and your movements is a major problem for all this kind of Actigraphy
3) There are 2 ways to adjust the sensitivity - using the R filter value or setting the sleep scoring threshold in preferences. This was intended for harder/softer matteresses. 
4) You may perform quick calibration while you are in bed. The extended calibration is a 2 step process
5) Putting the phone under your pillow may cause your battery to overheat, I would not recommend it.

----------


## TeaSea

Hi, just wondering what sort of timescale you're putting on the release of the android app with the new algorithm(s) you've been working on. I read a bit on the site, but I'm still not sure.

----------


## Ev

It will probably be early January. If the iPhone app does not keep me out of the workforce, I'll have to search for a job or scramble to put another app out on the market to stay as an independent developer. Unless I can sell the Android app, I fear it will keep slipping down on the priority list :/

----------


## tommo

:O What????
This is horrible news!  Why don't you just sell the android app?

----------


## Ev

The iPhone app will still happen in December. I'll think about putting the Android app for sale .

----------


## TeaSea

I'll buy it once we get this new algorithm you've been working on  ::D:

----------


## Ev

I've just ordered Zeo headband, I think it works for Android devices right now. Once it arrives, I plan to restart the Android project, do some algorithm improvements, and then implement the REM detection with Zeo.

----------


## madeofparts

I would buy a paid android version of this app. I would probably get a Zeo headband too if it was supported - at the moment I use a REM Dreamer as an aid, with this app as a kind of tracker type thing.  
I too have been unemployed for a while, and have been looking for ways to monetize my development skills - it isn't easy, but you have a great app here. Also, that new project of yours seems like it might have a wider appeal.
Anyway - good luck.

----------


## DrDaxxy

First of all, amazing job on the sleep detection (it seems to work really well)! And, if anything, the statistics look cool  :tongue2: 

Now, as far as I understand, the "after movement (DILD, DEILD)" mode of the Smart Timer and the obsolete REM Detection method both wait for movement *after* an REM phase (so in a lighter non-REM sleep phase) so they can wake the dreamer up before the next one, correct? However, I don't see how that would help DILD as one would want the reminder to play right within the REM period (so pretty much a few minutes after the last movement)? Or have I misunderstood something and the app has a way to play reminders a few minutes into (what it thinks is) REM sleep? I'm aware this question has sorta been asked before, but I didn't quite understand the answer.
(Also, can the REM detection method aid DILD? I'm aware it's considered obsolete, but I don't have a strict sleeping schedule so REM prediction likely wouldn't work for me)

----------


## Ev

> First of all, amazing job on the sleep detection (it seems to work really well)! And, if anything, the statistics look cool 
> 
> Now, as far as I understand, the "after movement (DILD, DEILD)" mode of the Smart Timer and the obsolete REM Detection method both wait for movement *after* an REM phase (so in a lighter non-REM sleep phase) so they can wake the dreamer up before the next one, correct? However, I don't see how that would help DILD as one would want the reminder to play right within the REM period (so pretty much a few minutes after the last movement)? Or have I misunderstood something and the app has a way to play reminders a few minutes into (what it thinks is) REM sleep? I'm aware this question has sorta been asked before, but I didn't quite understand the answer.
> (Also, can the REM detection method aid DILD? I'm aware it's considered obsolete, but I don't have a strict sleeping schedule so REM prediction likely wouldn't work for me)



Hey,

There's a light sleep stage that preceedes REM, your body may move there. This is why  the* after movement* is intended to be played after this light sleep stage, in REM. 

The statistics do look powerfully cool  :smiley:  

I'll probably have to make the android app at least Ad supported, maybe even paid because otherwise there's no incentive to keep developing it. :/

----------


## madeofparts

> Hey,
> I'll probably have to make the android app at least Ad supported, maybe even paid because otherwise there's no incentive to keep developing it. :/



Probably best to do both - I use no ad supported apps, and would dump this if there were to be only an ad supported version, and I can't be the only one.
I don't know how expensive it is to sell apps on the android market, but it has got to be worth putting a paid version up there for people who want to buy it.
Anyway, I suppose I can always carry on as I am now... not complaining - love the app, and that is partly why it is successful - it gets you involved in the lucid dreaming process.
 :smiley:

----------


## DrDaxxy

Oh, I see. Well, if you decide to continue developing (I personally really wouldn't mind ads) / open source (as you considered earlier I think?) the app, a feature to play reminders *during* a dream (= REM sleep = no motion/sound) would be nice  :tongue2: 




> I don't know how expensive it is to sell apps on the android market, but it has got to be worth putting a paid version up there for people who want to buy it.



Free as far as I know (one-time $20 to get Market access in general I think, which is what Ev's probably already paid), they just take a standard cut.

----------


## Ev

> Oh, I see. Well, if you decide to continue developing (I personally really wouldn't mind ads) / open source (as you considered earlier I think?) the app, a feature to play reminders *during* a dream (= REM sleep = no motion/sound) would be nice 
> 
> 
> Free as far as I know (one-time $20 to get Market access in general I think, which is what Ev's probably already paid), they just take a standard cut.




Hey, 
I got access to the Android market, and the app is like #1 lucid dreaming app IN THE WORLD! Muhahahahah  :smiley:  I'll probably end up putting inobtrusive ads on the home screen. The whole "people who like it will buy it" doesn't really work, there have been 2 donations made to the development effort from over 50000 downloads, which amounted to 10$ US. In general, Android users are looking for free apps and google encourages free apps with ads. 

I don't have enough test subjects to prove that REM sleep is charactrized by lack of motion and sound. There are ALL kinds of research findings that contradict each other at every step. One says there are twitches in REM, others say the body is dead paralyzed and still. 

I suspect this is dependent upon the nervous system. There may be complete or partial paralysis of all major body muscles, and the activity level itself would vary based on the content of the dream. This is why my iPhone app includes a dream journal - in future, I intend to analyze those dream journal entries as an extra source of information about the dream intensity and nervous system excitation. It's a load of work, too much for my current time and resources, that are stretched very thinly . 


PS. Got my zeo headband today, sitting in it right now, the thing is tight and is kinda giving me a headache. I guess this is the first night effect, or maybe my brain is sensitive to electromagnetic radiation.

----------


## DrDaxxy

> I'll probably end up putting inobtrusive ads on the home screen.



You could make so much more money if you snuck in a few "reminders" from ad partners  :wink2: 
(I kid, I kid)




> The whole "people who like it will buy it doesn't really work"



"People who don't like ads will buy it" is an entirely different matter I suppose  :tongue2: 





> I don't have enough test subjects to prove that REM sleep is charactrized by lack of motion and sound. There are ALL kinds of research findings that contradict each other at every step. One says there are twitches in REM, others say the body is dead paralyzed and still.



 ::o:  really? Seemed to me that general consensus was "REM = paralysis in normally functioning individuals". Anyway, I suppose an *additional* reminder method can't really hurt, right? People will find out what works best for themselves.





> This is why my iPhone app includes a dream journal - in future, I intend to analyze those dream journal entries as an extra source of information about the dream intensity and nervous system excitation.



Like, matching "dream times" to "no-movement phases"? Sounds pretty good  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

> You could make so much more money if you snuck in a few "reminders" from ad partners 
> (I kid, I kid)
> 
> "People who don't like ads will buy it" is an entirely different matter I suppose 
> 
> 
>  really? Seemed to me that general consensus was "REM = paralysis in normally functioning individuals". Anyway, I suppose an *additional* reminder method can't really hurt, right? People will find out what works best for themselves.
> 
> 
> Like, matching "dream times" to "no-movement phases"? Sounds pretty good



This dream has been brought to you by... Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Haha, you also forget that "normally functioning" individuals, "normally" recall 1-2 dreams per week. True fact. 

I have a data analysis worksheet published:
http://luciddreamingapp.com/appdata/...worksheet.xlsx
 Anyone with the Singularity Experience version 1.1 can plug in their "Singularity state" data into the worksheet (copy/paste) and the graphs would update. If the person has reported a dream upon awakening, looking at the graphs before the dream would settle the question of whether that person moves in REM or not.

----------


## Moondreamer

Hey, this looks really cool. I know tha this would be waaaaaaay downn the list, but it'd be great if there was a Nook app version.

----------


## DrDaxxy

Which Nook do you have? Apparently the Color and Tablet have an accelerometer so you should be able to use the existing app on those if you root them and install the Android Market (assuming it works without sound level measurement).

----------


## Ev

There are just too many flavors of android, and close to 500 different devices. Some devices cannot run the app period. I'm not sure if rooting Nook, finding a stable Android image is worth it. It took me 2 weeks to find a stable windows mobile android image, and it was a major pain. 

In terms of Nook and other tablets, my resources are spread so thin right now that it's not going to happen.

----------


## madeofparts

> Hey, 
> I got access to the Android market, and the app is like #1 lucid dreaming app IN THE WORLD! Muhahahahah  I'll probably end up putting inobtrusive ads on the home screen. The whole "people who like it will buy it" doesn't really work, there have been 2 donations made to the development effort from over 50000 downloads, which amounted to 10$ US. In general, Android users are looking for free apps and google encourages free apps with ads.



I didn't realise you could donate. since reading this I have looked for a way to donate but I can't find it. What am I missing? Probably something obvious knowing me.....
 :smiley:

----------


## Ev

The donate button was on the website for like 6 months, and out of ~22000 visitors, only 2 donated. This makes me abandon the idea of donation based development.

----------


## madeofparts

> The donate button was on the website for like 6 months, and out of ~22000 visitors, only 2 donated. This makes me abandon the idea of donation based development.




Wow - there it is!
I never saw that before.
Thanks.

----------


## Shaman1982

> I've just ordered Zeo headband, I think it works for Android devices right now. Once it arrives, I plan to restart the Android project, do some algorithm improvements, and then implement the REM detection with Zeo.



Hi EV, do you have any updates on this? I would be very interested in getting this stuff if you will make it work for LD's

----------


## skullgunner1

BEFORE downloading:

Isn't it possible for phone radiation to keep you awake? I kept a phone by my side for an alarm for a week and had insomnia on all of those nights. When I removed it and used a real alarm I slept good that night.

----------


## Emiko

> BEFORE downloading:
> 
> Isn't it possible for phone radiation to keep you awake? I kept a phone by my side for an alarm for a week and had insomnia on all of those nights. When I removed it and used a real alarm I slept good that night.



I mitigate this problem by setting my phone on Airplane Mode every night before I start the Lucid Dreaming App. When a phone is on Airplane Mode, it's still on and the Lucid Dreaming App still works, but the phone isn't exchanging radio waves with any cell towers or Wi-Fi access points, so it's not producing as much radiation.

----------


## Goldenspark

> Hi EV, do you have any updates on this? I would be very interested in getting this stuff if you will make it work for LD's



I've pinged Alexander several times both here and on his Lucid Dreaming App site. He has responded a couple of times, but he said he was not developping the app any more due to time and money constraints.

A real pity as there is so much he could do with it!

I have the Zeo headband, but his app doesn't seem to set off the alarm at the REM period as indicated by Zeo, so it doesn't seem to work as an LD initiator.
That is one particular bug that I would love for him to iron out.

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## tommo

Were you using it in wristband mode?  Or just mattress?

How long is the difference between LDApp and Zeo detection?

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## Goldenspark

> Were you using it in wristband mode?  Or just mattress?
> 
> How long is the difference between LDApp and Zeo detection?



Hi Tommo, sorry, I missed your reply!

What do you mean about wristband mode or just mattress? I used the LD App as normally intended where it records sound and vibration to create the actigraph, but have added the Zeo headband input. It just doesn;t seem to set off the alarm during REM like I thought it was meant to.
I must try it again!

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## Nighthawk09

I am really excited to get this app one day but sadly it probably wont be for another year until i get an android unless you are able to refine one for the ipod.  It has incredible potential not only to make money but also to be one of the most promising methods of attaining and maintaining lucidity.  You should really look into getting sponsored by one of the lucidity institutes; they may help finance your cause free of charge as well as provide you with useful resources to make the app even better.  This app could be a game-changer and i am sure i will continue to hear great things about this in the future.

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## tommo

> Hi Tommo, sorry, I missed your reply!
> 
> What do you mean about wristband mode or just mattress? I used the LD App as normally intended where it records sound and vibration to create the actigraph, but have added the Zeo headband input. It just doesn;t seem to set off the alarm during REM like I thought it was meant to.
> I must try it again!



 Oh, you're using the Android version.  I don't think that has mattress/wristband mode.

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## Goldenspark

> Oh, you're using the Android version.  I don't think that has mattress/wristband mode.



Ah! I understand what you mean now. I reember reading about the iPhone being put in a writband.

I am going to try using the Android version again tonight, but this time with just one notification to see if I can get the Zeo headband to work properly with it.

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