# Off-Topic Discussion > The Lounge > Tech Talk >  >  Advice for Apple

## Neruo

GET A MOUSE WITH *TWO FREAKING BUTTONS.*

At the university I going to study, they use macs. There is no sane reason why Not to have a right-mouse button. How much do they want to be 'original'? Freaking apple.

----------


## Mes Tarrant

Omg I HATE that about apple.  :Bang head:  We have a few apple computers here and there at my university but they are always people's last choice. What do you have to do to right click on things... like press ctrl and click at the same time or something?

----------


## Alex D

Yep.

Also, they do have a mouse with more buttons, it's just not the standard for some reason. Other than the mouse thing, I love Macs. :')

----------


## Wavefunction

> Yep.
> 
> Also, they do have a mouse with more buttons, it's just not the standard for some reason. Other than the mouse thing, I love Macs. :')



Really? Never seen it... why wouldn't it be standard, it's not like two buttons are the new cutting edge technology!

----------


## Goldney

It's like they tried to simplify it but actually made it _more_ complicated. I hate the feel of them as well, just too clumsy. 


Although I do like that there are USB ports in the keyboards. That's good.

----------


## Adrenaline Junkie

The keyboard ports were a good idea considering plugging in a mouse into the back of a computer can shorten the wire quite alot.

I hate the mouse, it seems very stupid, i also find Macs very annoying, i mean they come bundled with programs for idiots, and the actual operating system is quite complicated to get used to compared to windows, for example whenever i run iTunes i find that i accidentally click "Sort songs alphabetically" which i don't want to do, and what dya know, i can't undo it, i have to go fiddling around to sort them by date added, things are too cramped. There is too much you can click in iTunes and it applies for the other applications.

----------


## Alex D

Actually, things are simplified. Most of the tasks you'd do with a right click can be done with the one button, for example instead of right clicking to save a picture, you juct click and drag to the folder you want. Much simpler.

And the Migty Mouse isn't standard because it is an over-complicated, cutting edge mouse. It's a shame they just don't make a middle ground the standard, I agree.

And LS, the operating system seems complicated in comparison on the first few uses, but so does Windows in comparison if you're used to OS X. After a short while you learn the ins and outs and it's stupidly easy to use in comparison. And what programs for idiots?

----------


## Goldney

Just my personal preference but I prefer Windows, mainly because I know how it works. Another thing that drives me against Apple is their bullsh*t adverts.

"Hello I'm a Mac,"
_"And I'm a PC"_
"I'm cooler than you, look see how I play iTunes and iMovie"
_"Wow that's so true, I am only good for spreadsheets and other boring grown up things."_

----------


## Keeper

As per the laws of the internet ...

----------


## dsr

Apple's Mighty Mouse, which has TWO buttons  ::shock::  (plus a scroller and some not-so-useful stuff) has been included with their desktops for at least a year. By the way, you can still "right"-click with the old mice; just hold down control (not command) when you click. Neruo, if you don't like control-clicking, you could always bring your own mouse to the university.

----------


## Wavefunction

> Just my personal preference but I prefer Windows, mainly because I know how it works. Another thing that drives me against Apple is their bullsh*t adverts.
> 
> "Hello I'm a Mac,"
> _"And I'm a PC"_
> "I'm cooler than you, look see how I play iTunes and iMovie"
> _"Wow that's so true, I am only good for spreadsheets and other boring grown up things."_



Lol, I love those ads. They make me laugh  ::roll::

----------


## ninja9578

Um... doesn't the mighty mouse come standard with Macs now?  It has two buttons and a scroll wheel.

----------


## dsr

> Um... doesn't the mighty mouse come standard with Macs now?  It has two buttons and a scroll wheel.



See my post ...

----------


## Umbrasquall

Macs are great and quick to set up when you get them. But they're a nightmare to troubleshoot and their harddrives last about 5 days.

----------


## dsr

> But they're a nightmare to troubleshoot



I find troubleshooting Mac OS X to be much easier than troubleshooting Windows. The former usually involves trashing .plist files or even a simple restart, whereas the latter often requires booting into Knoppix to back up the entire hard drive, running a virus/spyware/trojan/other malware scanner, and sometimes even erasing the entire hard drive and reinstalling from scratch.





> their harddrives last about 5 days.



What makes you say that? I've never had a hard drive problem in my 5+ years using Macs.

----------


## Rainman

> But they're a nightmare to troubleshoot and their harddrives last about 5 days.



 I've had this mac for 7 years. never a hard drive problem... 

Mac=secure. Windows=spyware, viruses, etc. I don't use the security on this mac. I can go to any site and know I will not get any viruses from it. No cleaning the volume or whatever when you start up the computer. No spyware scans. I will admit the advertisements are a bit irritating and childish. But the computer is superior, especially for media stuff. Factory default wise, windows is far better for gaming though. By a long shot. But, I'm not a gamer anymore, so I'll stick with mac.

----------


## ninja9578

> But they're a nightmare to troubleshoot and their harddrives last about 5 days.



They're UNIX, tech people would always prefer to troubleshoot a UNIX platform than Windows.  Lots of errors in Windows come from the registry  :Bang head: 

I've had my iBook for 2 years and I've not had one drive error, I have a System 8 machine at home that I've had for 10 years and it still runs fine.  Maybe you're thinking of the iPod battery?  :tongue2:

----------


## ninja9578

> they come bundled with programs for idiots, and the actual operating system is quite complicated to get used to compared to windows



Again, it's UNIX, it's a very simple operating system when you get used to it.

What programs are for idiots?  iLife?  I couldn't go a day without iTunes.  
BTW: anything that you do in iTunes can be undone by pressing Command + Z, same as every other application.

----------


## WhiteUnit

Apple has a two button mouse... it just looks like a one button.  Been out 3 or 4 years now.

Advise for Windows: 360 scroll wheel.

----------


## Goldney

Kind of unnecessary.

Real men click the scroll wheel to produce the 4-way arrows and scroll using them, Apple doesn't have the advantage there.

----------


## ninja9578

If you want more flexible scrolling you can get a track pad.  Two finger scrolling is much easier than clicking that stupid wheel.

----------


## WhiteUnit

> Kind of unnecessary.
> 
> Real men click the scroll wheel to produce the 4-way arrows and scroll using them, Apple doesn't have the advantage there.



Err, except the 360 scroll wheel not having to click down to go all four ways..and just doing it... already (and also acting as a third mouse button when you click it).

----------


## Goldney

> Err, except the 360 scroll wheel not having to click down to go all four ways..and just doing it... already (and also acting as a third mouse button when you click it).



I'm okay with having to click it. Again the scroll wheel can also act as a third button. I use it regularly for opening new tabs from links.

----------


## WhiteUnit

Luckily Apple accommodates that too.  You can goto Apple>System Preferences>Keyboards and Shortcuts, and adjust it there (actually comes standard that way, for those who would be freaked out by 360 degree scrolling all the time.)

----------


## dsr

The Mighty Mouse has some nice features, most of which have already been covered in this thread, but it also has some cons. Most notably, the mouse differentiates left and right clicks based on touch because it doesn't have separate left and right buttons internally. This means that you are forced to lift your index finger from the mouse every time you right-click---a real annoyance and slight productivity detractor when using certain programs, particularly games or graphics editors. Another not-so-great thing about the Mighty Mouse is that the middle button, although useful for scrolling, is not as easy to click as the middle button is on a simple 3 button mouse (especially the UNIX/X11-specific kind with a regular middle button as opposed to a scroller). With those cons aside, however, the Mighty Mouse _is_ an attractive mouse, especially for daily computer use.

Since we're on the subject of Apple pointing devices, I feel compelled to point (no pun was originally intended) out that the the two-finger scrolling mechanism on the more recent Apple trackpads (those found on MacBook and MacBook Pro models) is much more practical and ergonomic than any other scrolling mechanism I've _ever_ seen on a mouse or trackpad. Of course, the most productive option would be not to use a mouse at all, but I'm sure most people here, myself included, would find it awkward to adjust to a fully keyboard-controlled environment (although mind isn't that far from one...).

----------


## WhiteUnit

> The Mighty Mouse has some nice features, most of which have already been covered in this thread, but it also has some cons. Most notably, the mouse differentiates left and right clicks based on touch because it doesn't have separate left and right buttons internally. This means that you are forced to lift your index finger from the mouse every time you right-click---a real annoyance and slight productivity detractor when using certain programs, particularly games or graphics editors. Another not-so-great thing about the Mighty Mouse is that the middle button, although useful for scrolling, is not as easy to click as the middle button is on a simple 3 button mouse (especially the UNIX/X11-specific kind with a regular middle button as opposed to a scroller). With those cons aside, however, the Mighty Mouse _is_ an attractive mouse, especially for daily computer use.
> 
> Since we're on the subject of Apple pointing devices, I feel compelled to point (no pun was originally intended) out that the the two-finger scrolling mechanism on the more recent Apple trackpads (those found on MacBook and MacBook Pro models) is much more practical and ergonomic than any other scrolling mechanism I've _ever_ seen on a mouse or trackpad. Of course, the most productive option would be not to use a mouse at all, but I'm sure most people here, myself included, would find it awkward to adjust to a fully keyboard-controlled environment (although mind isn't that far from one...).



I have to say that its funny as hell to watch someone get on my Mac and try to get used to the pressure sensitive mouse buttons.  However, it is not a disadvantage.  It takes about an hour to get used to it and then you never notice it again.  And speaking of games requiring right and left click, I learned to play Star Craft on PC, switched to Mac 6 months ago, and my game hasn't slowed down one bit.  I cant think of any other game that is more right-left click intensive than SC or any RTS.

----------


## dsr

Okay, I take your word for it. I was posting my first impressions of the mouse from the Apple store awhile ago, and since I myself don't use a Mighty Mouse, nor do I play computer games, you would know much better than I would if lifting the index finger actually impedes productivity. That narrows my qualms with the Mighty Mouse down to one.

Oh, a note to the original poster: please don't start a thread attacking a company's products before doing your research. Apple's current mice have (and have had for over two years) the ability to right-click. And if you prefer a different mouse from the one that comes with your computer, you can always unplug one and plug in the other.  ::shock::

----------


## Umbrasquall

> I find troubleshooting Mac OS X to be much easier than troubleshooting Windows. The former usually involves trashing .plist files or even a simple restart, whereas the latter often requires booting into Knoppix to back up the entire hard drive, running a virus/spyware/trojan/other malware scanner, and sometimes even erasing the entire hard drive and reinstalling from scratch.
> 
> What makes you say that? I've never had a hard drive problem in my 5+ years using Macs.



Haha I meant hardware wise they are a nightmare. It takes about 3 hours to open up a mac to check the RAM and only about 2 minutes in a PC. I have a part time job fixing student's computers here at school and most of the time when a mac comes in with a problem, it's probably the hard drive that died. Looks like you were lucky.  :smiley:

----------


## WhiteUnit

> Haha I meant hardware wise they are a nightmare. It takes about 3 hours to open up a mac to check the RAM and only about 2 minutes in a PC. I have a part time job fixing student's computers here at school and most of the time when a mac comes in with a problem, it's probably the hard drive that died. Looks like you were lucky.



Okay, no.

Hardware in a Mac Tower is as easy to swap out as any PC.  The iMac RAM is on the bottom of the display and takes 5 seconds to remove.  What's more is that Mac hardware components are consistent.  You stick to the same brands and you get the same results.  This is where PCs get their hardware issues.  

Sure, you can rig a bunch of crap to your Honda to make it quicker.  All sorts of name brands out there to get your parts from, or you can get a Mustang thats just as quick, stock.  Difference is, your going to have compatibility issues with the Honda (PC).

Also, Troubleshooting by definition means to simply finding the issue.  Nothing to do with fixing the problem, but regardless both are easier on a Mac.

----------


## WhiteUnit

Repost.

----------


## ninja9578

And for the iMacs I believe that there are just one or two screws holding the case together.

----------


## Umbrasquall

> Okay, no.
> 
> Hardware in a Mac Tower is as easy to swap out as any PC.  The iMac RAM is on the bottom of the display and takes 5 seconds to remove.  What's more is that Mac hardware components are consistent.  You stick to the same brands and you get the same results.  This is where PCs get their hardware issues.



My bad. I meant Macs as in laptops. Being in college where everyone has laptops, I've gotten used to a desktopless world lol. Anyway that's what we fix, and trust me, it's a pain.

----------


## WhiteUnit

> My bad. I meant Macs as in laptops. Being in college where everyone has laptops, I've gotten used to a desktopless world lol. Anyway that's what we fix, and trust me, it's a pain.



Yeah, well, I dont know jack bout building laptops.  So, your prolly right there.

BTW, you draw that image of Squall and Rinoa?

----------


## dsr

Actually, the newest generation of Mac laptops, or at least the MacBook and I assume the MacBook Pro, make it really easy to change the RAM and hard drive. Just remove the battery and 3 screws.

----------


## Scatterbrain

I love when people say windows (apparently pc=windows) is plagued with virus and spyware. The last time I had my pc crashed or got infected with something was years ago when I was a kid.

Tomorrow I'm buying a 15" notebook for 1150. A 15" macbook pro, with specs a lot inferior, would cost 2299!

Sure, macs are simple and may be better for some. But you can't deny that pcs have a lot of more potential and more freedom with hardware and software choice.

----------


## dsr

> Tomorrow I'm buying a 15" notebook for €1150. A 15" macbook pro, with specs a lot inferior, would cost €2299!



Why don't you compare the specs with the regular MacBook? And please compare them on this board so we can see the MacBook's inferiority with our own eyes.

----------


## WhiteUnit

> I love when people say windows (apparently pc=windows) is plagued with virus and spyware. The last time I had my pc crashed or got infected with something was years ago when I was a kid.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm buying a 15" notebook for 1150. A 15" macbook pro, with specs a lot inferior, would cost 2299!
> 
> Sure, macs are simple and may be better for some. But you can't deny that pcs have a lot of more potential and more freedom with hardware and software choice.



"Freedom of hardware."  Yeah... already talked about that.  Your freedom of hardware is why PCs can hardly run half the time. Incompatability.

And dont just throw up a random number without a name brand.  Link the page you built it on.  Whats the brand?  And dont compare it to the Pro, because you know thats more expensive.  Make sure you add in the price of your antivirus thats gonna suck up half your system resources, too.  And if your anything smart you'll stay well away from Vista.

Also, the up side about Macs coming already built:  They dont depreciate near as fast as PCs, so you can already get a large portion of your money back when you upgrade.

Also, your "software" freedom statement no longer holds since Mac went Intel based.  I have Vista boot camped on my Mac right now (sad to say, however I did tech support for its launch earlier this year, so I had to have it).  And even IF I didnt want to reboot into Vista, I can run parallels and use it at the same time.   

Yes, I could get a faster PC for a bit cheaper, and maybe I would go that route, but unfortunately I like using the internets and the two just dont mix.

----------


## Scatterbrain

> Why don't you compare the specs with the regular MacBook? And please compare them on this board so we can see the MacBook's inferiority with our own eyes.



Well, the regular mac book specs suck and the screen is small so I figured the mac book pro is better for a comparison.

The most expensive mac book pro (€2600) vs the most expensive compal fl90 (€1600)


*CPU*
Mac - intel core 2 duo 2.4ghz 4mb
Compal - intel core 2 duo t7700 2.4ghz 4mb

It's a tie here.


*HD*
Mac - 160gb
Compal - 160gb 7200rpm

It doesn't state the mac's hd rpm. Since it can either be 5400 or 7200, it's either a tie or compal wins.


*Screen*
Mac wins (screen is bigger and has higher resolution)

*Memory*
Both have DDRII 667mhz, but..
Mac - 2gb
Compal - 4gb

Compal wins.


*GPU*

Same on both but compal's has double of the memory plus 512mb TC.

Compal wins.


It's memory and gpu vs screen.
I think just by that the mac book pro loses. But, the compal has more interface exits (including vga and s-video) plus it's €1000 cheaper, so it&#180;s a big defeat for the mac.


#EDIT# (saw white unit's post after)

"PCs can hardly run half the time. Incompatability."

Hmm never heard of that around here. A friend of mine has been having problems with overheating but besides that nothing.

Here are the pages for the previous comparison:
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=748
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=736

"Make sure you add in the price of your antivirus thats gonna suck up half your system resources, too."

Sorry, I don't use norton. :tongue2:  I use avast antivirus, it's light, it's efective, and it's free for home use.

I'm sure you get a "large portion" of your money back.  ::roll:: 

Lack of freedom sucks, you get stuck to a brand. In this case, a very greedy one.

The software freedom argument does hold. Take a look at gaming for example.

I don't know why pcs and internet wouldn't mix. I use firefox and I do just fine, I even hang around those crack and serials sites that are loaded with virus and spyware. The very few times that something gets through (2 or 3 times in the last couple of years), avast takes care of it.


I'm sorry for the disorganized post but it's late and I'm in a hurry to go to sleep so there's no time to quote everything.

----------


## ninja9578

> *Memory*
> Both have DDRII 667mhz, but..
> Mac - 2gb
> Compal - 4gb
> 
> Compal wins.



I got a problem with this.  Are you sure that the Compal has 4gb of memory?  _Most_ PCs are still 32-bit and that would exceed the limit of memory.  Vista has a 64 bit version, but (from what my friends have told me, I might be wrong,) won't run in a backwards mode, so you have to find special 64 bit software.

Leopard is only 64 bit and I think Tiger was too, but they have a backwards compatible mode that runs those 32 bit programs.  

Macs also require less memory, most programs have smaller footprints than their Windows counterparts.


When talking about price, make sure that you compensate for those add-ons.  MS-Office: $399 (http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/pr...754511033.aspx), iWork: $79.  Antivirus software: $79 (I think) + subscription, Macs don't need one.  Someone already said this.



Got a question for everyone that I can't figure out.  Macs have always had inferior graphics cards compared to equally priced PCs, yet they dominate the creative market and always have.  Why is that?  The art building at my school is 100&#37; Mac, the computer graphics courses are either Mac or Sun (advanced courses are 100% Mac.)  Photoshop has been ported to Windows as well most of the other creative tools, I could never figure it out.

----------


## Wavefunction

> When talking about price, make sure that you compensate for those add-ons. MS-Office: $399 (http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/pr...754511033.aspx), iWork: $79. Antivirus software: $79 (I think) + subscription, Macs don't need one. Someone already said this.
> 
> Got a question for everyone that I can't figure out. Macs have always had inferior graphics cards compared to equally priced PCs, yet they dominate the creative market and always have. Why is that? The art building at my school is 100&#37; Mac, the computer graphics courses are either Mac or Sun (advanced courses are 100% Mac.) Photoshop has been ported to Windows as well most of the other creative tools, I could never figure it out.



There are great free AntiVirus programs out there. I don't know anyone who pays for one.
MS Office Pro is $400. That has Access and Business Contact Manager
MS Home and Student, the word/excel/outlook/powerpoint edition, is $150 and can be (legally) used on 3 computers

Mac started out as creative-person computers when MS had DOS. Now that PCs are better for cheaper, it doens't matter because the industry got used to Macs years ago and don't want to move to another platform.

----------


## Scatterbrain

I am sure the compal has 4gb of memory, I'm pretty sure the limit on bit system is 4gb and not 2gb. In a compal forum this model is being discussed and a some people have already bought it, the "esgotado" over the image means that the store has sold out the score on that one.

By the way, there is openoffice (www.openoffice.org) which you can use for free instead of microsoft office. It's the same thing, or even better.
Paying $400 for microsoft office is plain robbery imo.

[off-topic]
I've had 6 hours of sleep and now will do my daily wild attempt, today is the day.  ::D:

----------


## Ynot

> I am sure the compal has 4gb of memory, I'm pretty sure the limit on bit system is 4gb and not 2gb.



on 32bit OS's, there's an address space limit of 4gb (2^32)

but bear in mind, memory isn't the only thing (far from it) that your system needs to address - there's all motherboard connections (processor, co-processor, PCI bus, IDE, SATA, USB, parallel port, serial port, PS/2 ports, etc., etc.)

these other things need a fair amount of address space

in reality, 3.5Gb  is about the limit of addressable Ram in 32bit OS's
(that's ~3.5Gb ram + ~0.5 of other stuff = 4Gb)

----------


## ninja9578

I never said that I thought the limit was 2 GB, like Ynot said, the limit is around 3.5.

----------


## WhiteUnit

> Well, the regular mac book specs suck and the screen is small so I figured the mac book pro is better for a comparison.
> 
> The most expensive mac book pro (2600) vs the most expensive compal fl90 (1600)
> 
> 
> *CPU*
> Mac - intel core 2 duo 2.4ghz 4mb
> Compal - intel core 2 duo t7700 2.4ghz 4mb
> 
> ...



Okay, just as I thought, some foreign off-brand system.

And take a look at gaming? Dude, did you just read my first sentence and stop there.  Boot Camp or Parallels with Windows fixes that.  Intel based processor. All programs work.  And if you happen to be a WoW player, it looks and works WAY better on Mac than PC.

And BTW, its not Mac's fault that Microsoft is a law firm disguised as a software company.  Microsoft pays companies to only make their software FOR the Windows.

You said you've never heard of incompatibility on PC (first off, LOL) and then you gave an example of it?  You friend has rigged up his comp with so much crap that he needs another power supply.  Incompatibility.

Also, you may resolve all your problems with freeware, but that doesn't stop the antivirus from sucking up your system resources.  It's that fact that PCs even NEED AV that proves they don't mix with the net.

Stuck with a single brand, yes.  But why is this one particularly greedy?  Because they are big?  No. Your just talking smack.

And yes, Windows can only see 3 gigs RAM, and whats more, the applications in it can only max @ 2 gigs.

Also, I didn't go Mac until the Intel processors came out in the end of '06, I made the switch because I was fed up with Windows.  I also work tech support for Adobe which has about a 50/50 split between Mac and PC, and guess what?  I hear people switching to Mac all day, and I'm yet to here a Mac user switch to PC.

Anyway, Im at work right now so I cant elaborate more... I have PCs to fix.

----------


## WhiteUnit

Oh, speaking off MacBook Pro, here is the number 1 on Digg today.

http://flickr.com/photos/jefseb/1396761866/
http://digg.com/apple/How_does_a_Mac...ng_at_once_PIC

Not only did every single app on the computer open, he was able to Exposé it.

----------


## Scatterbrain

> Okay, just as I thought, some foreign off-brand system.
> 
> And take a look at gaming? Dude, did you just read my first sentence and stop there.  Boot Camp or Parallels with Windows fixes that.  Intel based processor. All programs work.  And if you happen to be a WoW player, it looks and works WAY better on Mac than PC.




First off, it's not "some foreign off-brand system". Compal is one of the leading brands in selling notebooks, last time I checked it came in second place right after asus I think.

So you can emulate windows, that's great. But it's still easier to just run the software on a pc. 
It's possible that wow runs better on a mac but I don't know what you mean by "working" better. I don't play wow btw.






> And BTW, its not Mac's fault that Microsoft is a law firm disguised as a software company.  Microsoft pays companies to only make their software FOR the Windows.



It makes more sense to think that the companies make their software for window because it has a larger number of users. It's just not paid license software either, there's a lot of freeware too.






> You said you've never heard of incompatibility on PC (first off, LOL) and then you gave an example of it?  You friend has rigged up his comp with so much crap that he needs another power supply.  Incompatibility.



Hardware incompatibility? No, I've never heard of that. Its expected that one checks compatibility when choosing hardware for a pc build.
My friend has a pc with old hardware(gpu 5 years old, everything else 6 years old), similar to mine which has a slightly better gpu and had it's motherboard and hd replaced along with 512ram added some months ago. One of the fans broke and he had to replace it, that's it.






> Also, you may resolve all your problems with freeware, but that doesn't stop the antivirus from sucking up your system resources.  It's that fact that PCs even NEED AV that proves they don't mix with the net.



lol? While antivirus like norton do suck up resources, with avast it's insignificant. Unless you have a really old pc, it doesn't make a difference.

The fact that a lot of virus exist for windows it's just proof of it's popularity. Rest assured that if some day macs become as popular they too will end up needing anti-virus.






> Stuck with a single brand, yes.  But why is this one particularly greedy?  Because they are big?  No. Your just talking smack.



They are greedy because they overprice their products, and it's not just with macs. You could say it's even worse with the ipods, not only are they pricier than other mp3 players but they also come with less functions... which you can add by buying the right accessory.  ::roll:: 






> And yes, Windows can only see 3 gigs RAM, and whats more, the applications in it can only max @ 2 gigs.



If it's windows 32-bit, yes. Although 64-bit is a bit useless right now. (pun intended)






> Also, I didn't go Mac until the Intel processors came out in the end of '06, I made the switch because I was fed up with Windows.  I also work tech support for Adobe which has about a 50/50 split between Mac and PC, and guess what?  I hear people switching to Mac all day, and I'm yet to here a Mac user switch to PC.
> 
> Anyway, Im at work right now so I cant elaborate more... I have PCs to fix.



I can see some people that would be better off with a mac, but those are usually people not well versed in computers. If you know what you're doing then pcs have much more potential.

Bottom line: I never have problems with pcs, they give me more freedom and they are cheaper. I don't see any reason to switch for mac when pc offers more than whatever they do.

----------


## ninja9578

That expose of all of the programs on Mac running at once it really cool.  

iPods have less functionality compared to what?  I've never seen a Creative or Sony mp3 player that had nearly as many features as the iPod.

----------


## WhiteUnit

> First off, it's not "some foreign off-brand system". Compal is one of the leading brands in selling notebooks, last time I checked it came in second place right after asus I think.
> 
> So you can emulate windows, that's great. But it's still easier to just run the software on a pc. 
> It's possible that wow runs better on a mac but I don't know what you mean by "working" better. I don't play wow btw.



Never heard of Compal OR Asus, and no one has called me with one either.  Maybe it's big in its own foreign lands, but not here in the states.





> It makes more sense to think that the companies make their software for window because it has a larger number of users. It's just not paid license software either, there's a lot of freeware too.



No,no.  You misread.  Microsoft PAYS companies to only make their software for PC.  Its not hard to program for Mac.  Its called whoring the market.  Microsoft is renown for being a corporate monopoly machine, and is the REAL greedy company.  Also there is a lot of freeware written for Mac only, once again neutralizing your point.





> Hardware incompatibility? No, I've never heard of that. Its expected that one checks compatibility when choosing hardware for a pc build.
> My friend has a pc with old hardware(gpu 5 years old, everything else 6 years old), similar to mine which has a slightly better gpu and had it's motherboard and hd replaced along with 512ram added some months ago. One of the fans broke and he had to replace it, that's it.



 Haven't heard of incompatibilities? Welcome to the Computer world, you clearly haven't been here long.




> lol? While antivirus like norton do suck up resources, with avast it's insignificant. Unless you have a really old pc, it doesn't make a difference.
> 
> The fact that a lot of virus exist for windows it's just proof of it's popularity. Rest assured that if some day macs become as popular they too will end up needing anti-virus.



Cool, so I've heard this point before.  So your trying to tell me there are more people writing viruses for PCs?  And yet, Apple throws up big advertising campaigns  about how they don't get viruses, even without AV.  And you think they aren't a target?  Sorry, your just making that up out of thin air. Maybe more people write viruses for PCs because it so easy.

And BTW, there is no question of popularity with Windows, but there is also no question that Mac population is aggressively catching up.




> They are greedy because they overprice their products, and it's not just with macs. You could say it's even worse with the ipods, not only are they pricier than other mp3 players but they also come with less functions... which you can add by buying the right accessory.



Over pricing is an opinion.  If they are so overpriced why is iPod the most popular choice of MP3 Player? Kind of wierd.. overpriced = popular?  Microsoft is the biggest Market Whore in history, another widely known fact, so where do you get off calling Mac a Greedy company?

And since were getting off topic with other products, let's take Xbox for example.  Halo has a contract to only be created with Xbox 360 and no other systems (the only thing thats keeping Xbox in production), but thats not too bad.  However, Halo 2 for the computer is ONLY compatible with VISTA, forcing you to purchase it.

Now lets look at the price of MS products-
Vista
 Home Basic (good luck getting your apps to work on this)- $100; New $200
 Home Premium- $160; New $240
 Home Ultimate- $260; New $400
This is what it will cost you to upgrade to Vista so that it can totally jack up your system.
All Mac OS ups are $100, and you don't have to get the dumbed down version, and don't have to wait for SP2 before it works.

Zune 30 gb -$200 and it wont work with Mac (Greedy Microsoft doesn't want to share) and it doesnt work with 64 bit either.
iPod 160 gb -$249 Works with everything.






> If it's windows 32-bit, yes. Although 64-bit is a bit useless right now. (pun intended)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see some people that would be better off with a mac, but those are usually people not well versed in computers. If you know what you're doing then pcs have much more potential.
> 
> Bottom line: I never have problems with pcs, they give me more freedom and they are cheaper. I don't see any reason to switch for mac when pc offers more than whatever they do.



And for the grand finale you said what I wanted you to say all along.

" I can see some people that would be better off with a mac, but those are usually people not well versed in computers."
 "If you know what you're doing then pcs have much more potential."

Yes, if you don't know how to  hold a crap computer together, you should switch to Mac which will work no matter what.

And by saying "whatever they do" only indicates your own lack of experience with Mac, and obvious denial of any evidence that they may be better.

Smart people say, "Hmm.. this Mac thing is making a bunch of noise.  I should see what it does."  Then they often get hooked.

Stupid PC Zealots grab hold of their self built little PC "Honda" and simply scream "IT CANT BE BETTER, IT CANT BE!!!" While never even trying it to find out.

Bottom line: I don't care what you experienced.  The proof is in the pudding, PC sucks even if you save a few bucks.

----------


## Umbrasquall

> Yeah, well, I dont know jack bout building laptops.  So, your prolly right there.
> 
> BTW, you draw that image of Squall and Rinoa?



I didn't actually. I found it somewhere a long time ago. Haven't been able to find it since. 





> Actually, the newest generation of Mac laptops, or at least the MacBook and I assume the MacBook Pro, make it really easy to change the RAM and hard drive. Just remove the battery and 3 screws.



Yeah we're getting more of those this year. It'll be considerably easier to fix once they start breaking.  ::D:

----------


## Identity X

I share Scattlebrain's opinion on overpricing. I got a fully featured (sub?-)nano-sized Sandisk Sansa e260 for _marginally_ more cash than an Ipod shuffle, which has half the capacity, no micro-SD slot, and, oh wait, NO FUCKING SCREEN. 

That's not only expensive, it's shit.

----------


## Scatterbrain

> Never heard of Compal OR Asus, and no one has called me with one either. Maybe it's big in its own foreign lands, but not here in the states.







> Haven't heard of incompatibilities? Welcome to the Computer world, you clearly haven't been here long.



I'm only 17 turning 18 but I've used pcs since I was a kid and only then did I ever had problems.

Sorry but you're the one who doesn't seem to have been around pcs for long. Although compal is a bit occult (I myself only discovered it recently despite it being one of the biggest notebook producers), asus on the other hand is very well known, not only in the notebook business but also as a motherboard and gpu manufacturer.

Before I made my decision about which notebook to buy I lurked around some forums, and even in those with US users the compal laptops were mentioned, the asus too (obviously). Everyone knows the gaming notebooks Asus G1 and G2 for example.






> No,no. You misread. Microsoft PAYS companies to only make their software for PC. Its not hard to program for Mac. Its called whoring the market. Microsoft is renown for being a corporate monopoly machine, and is the REAL greedy company. Also there is a lot of freeware written for Mac only, once again neutralizing your point.



How you're supposed to be so sure about that I don't know. But you can't deny that either way popularity has a big weight. If macs were more widely used than pcs, the companies would have more profit selling software for it than taking bribes from microsoft.






> Cool, so I've heard this point before. So your trying to tell me there are more people writing viruses for PCs? And yet, Apple throws up big advertising campaigns about how they don't get viruses, even without AV. And you think they aren't a target? Sorry, your just making that up out of thin air. Maybe more people write viruses for PCs because it so easy.



See, the thing is, nobody cares about mac. The number of pc users HEAVILY outweights the number of mac users, it's obvious the target are pc users, mainly the ones with windows. The general hate for microsoft may also play a role here.






> And BTW, there is no question of popularity with Windows, but there is also no question that Mac population is aggressively catching up.



The only thing I can say here is that there is a world outside of the US. And I can safely bet that statement doesn't hold true around the world.






> Over pricing is an opinion. If they are so overpriced why is iPod the most popular choice of MP3 Player? Kind of wierd.. overpriced = popular? Microsoft is the biggest Market Whore in history, another widely known fact, so where do you get off calling Mac a Greedy company?



The ipod is popular because of "style", but "style" doesn't make your mp3 better. 
I bought a sansa e280, at the time it cost me the same as a 4gb ipod nano.
Guess what? It has 8gb, the screen is slightly bigger, it can be used as a mass storage device, the battery can be removed easily, has an micro-sd slot, it doesn't force you to use a certain app *COUGH*itunes*COUGH* and, excepting europe (some legal complications sandisk got into, unlucky me), it brings also a radio tuner. Oh, it brings a sleek "skin"-bag too, which I lost today.
The only "down side" is that it's a bit thicker than the nano.

FYI, I said apple is greedy but I never said microsoft isn't. The only difference between the two is that apple makes ridiculous advertisements. 
Microsoft may have a big monopoly but it doesn't own "pc", I choose my hardware and choose if I want to use their software.


By the way, you shouldn't bother taking the windows price into account because nobody buys windows. =p
If you really want to go through the legal road there are a load of linux distributions for free.





> And by saying "whatever they do" only indicates your own lack of experience with Mac, and obvious denial of any evidence that they may be better.



lmao
Don't twist the meaning. I didn't claim lack of knowledge about mac's capabilities. It's true I lack experience with them, but I know for a fact there's nothing they can do that pcs can't. (well, I don't know if pcs can emulate OS X but why would I want to do that?)






> Stupid PC Zealots grab hold of their self built little PC "Honda" and simply scream "IT CANT BE BETTER, IT CANT BE!!!" While never even trying it to find out.
> 
> Bottom line: I don't care what you experienced. The proof is in the pudding, PC sucks even if you save a few bucks.



You don't tire of claiming mac is better. Yet, up to now you failed to provide a good argument besides saying macs are stable and assuming pcs are always unstable.

Before finishing I would just like to correct: you don't save "a few bucks", you save a few hundreds of bucks.

----------


## WhiteUnit

First off, this is a discussion about Apple vs Microsoft.  But since you want to throw your in your MP3 player in here, lets discuss that, too.

First off: You mean THIS Sansa e260?

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Cata...3_Players.aspx

I hope not.  Because your comparing two different classes of MP3 Player. Why are you talking about the shuffle?  Talk about the iPod.  It's like your comparing a truck to a car.

"My Ford F-250 costs marginally more than an Eclipse, but it also has a bigger engine, a trailer hitch and the Eclipse DOESNT EVEN HAVE A FLATBED."

Well of course the Eclipse doesn't have a flat bed, its a car.  And of course the iPod Shuffle doesn't have a screen, its marketed to be the smallest possible MP3 player available. 

Here is the one you SHOULD of compared to:

http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/specs.html

So here's the rundown. 

Screen size:
-iPod Nano 2 inch screen; 204 DPI
-Sansa 1.8 inch screen; screen resolution not given (I would be embarrassed, too)

Disk size:
-iPod Nano 8 gig @ $149
-Sansa 8 gig @ $149 (can be swapped out with cards made by Sansa)

Battery life:
-iPod Nano 24 hours audio, 5 hours Video
-Sansa 20 hours audio, Can't play video

Maybe if Sansa posted more specs of its product I could go on, but that about sums it up.  But, I understand that it is a smart business decision to not put information on your website thats just going to make your product look bad....

----------


## WhiteUnit

> I'm only 17 turning 18 but I've used pcs since I was a kid and only then did I ever had problems.
> 
> Sorry but you're the one who doesn't seem to have been around pcs for long. Although compal is a bit occult (I myself only discovered it recently despite it being one of the biggest notebook producers), asus on the other hand is very well known, not only in the notebook business but also as a motherboard and gpu manufacturer.
> 
> Before I made my decision about which notebook to buy I lurked around some forums, and even in those with US users the compal laptops were mentioned, the asus too (obviously). Everyone knows the gaming notebooks Asus G1 and G2 for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.asus.com/

Notice how all the little dots are in other countries except two.  And by No.1.. you mean you read it off this page.  And its quoted by wall street journal in Asia.

Oh, and here is your Compal:
http://www.compal.com/index_En.htm
Complete with cheesy web design!

You say I don't have an argument?  I'm the only one between us that lists sources and facts. Don't pull the Linux crap after you complained about being able to use Windows-Only software.  I will be the first to say Linux owns Mac, but all your statements are Microsoft related.  You dont have ground to walk on.

I'm done talkin to ya, kid.  I was PC and went Mac, nothin your gonna tell me I don't know. However, your all PC and never touched Mac.  Half your statements are personal opinions about something you never knew anything about. 

Your 17, still in high school, and are still controlled by the bandwagon.  Im 20, and have been working tech support for 2 years for both Microsoft and Adobe, I know what the user demographics are.  Mac is on a strong comeback whether your going to open your eyes or not.  Your owned.  And my weekend just started, peace.

----------


## dsr

Scatterbrain, why don't you check out the regular MacBook on Apple's site and see if it looks good to you: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...acbook/macbook
Starting at $1099 USD (that's 780 as of today) with a 2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, the MacBook doesn't seem so overpriced to me.  :tongue2:

----------


## Scatterbrain

How could I forget the "you're just a kid" and "I win because I know better" arguments, really original.

I'm turning 18 in 9 days and next monday I'll start having classes at university so cut the kid crap. You're just 2 years older.

You want sources?
_"Compal 
The world's 2nd largest laptop maker, Compal has designed and built laptops for all of the major brands as well as custom builders for over 22 years."_
That's the description given in the compal discussion board on the forums from notebookreview.com (http://forum.notebookreview.com/)

They also have the asus discussion board right next to the apple board, really occult. ::roll:: 


I don't see the logic in a windows vs mac discussion, windows vs OS X would have made more sense don't you think? My point is that personal computer > macintosh.

You can quit denying or evading the facts:
- pcs can be stable;
- pcs are cheaper than macs;
- there is nothing that can be done on a mac and can't be done on a pc.
Did I miss something?


About the mp3, your comparison is useless. You got the facts wrong. The e260 only has 6gb so you should have compared the 8gb nano with the e280. Also, the e-series DO play videos.

At the time i bought the e280 this new generation of nanos wasn't released yet so like I said, for the same price of a 4gb nano (with no video or the other features and a smaller screen) you could get a e280. 
Now this 3rd generation of the ipod nano (released just this month) does have a bigger screen (but is also overall is a little bigger) but it costs 200, while the e280 dropped to just 120. With the cheaper price the e280 still has the edge with the mic, sd card and removable battery imo.
(just to make sure you don't whine I checked the prices on the us amazon: ipod $200, sansa $120. europe always gets ripped off..)

dsr
It should cost 780 but we always get ripped off here when it comes to electronic stuff, they usually just switch the $ with a  and voila, there's the new price. ::?: 

I'm seeing that macbook with prices around 980. The compal ifl90 I'm going to buy, is just 170 extra and has an hd with 160gb, 2gb ram memory, 15" screen and a much better gpu, the cpu is the only thing equal.

The compal doesn't come with a OS, it would cost 100 extra if I wanted windows vista home premium with it (still worth it comparing the specs). But you can assume I will use the license from my previous computer, or that I use linux.

#edit#
I took a quick look at the hp, acer and asus notebooks with the same price as the macbook. They all bring OS and some software with them and are better than the macbook (not as good as the compal though :tongue2: ).

----------


## dsr

> It should cost €780 but we always get ripped off here when it comes to electronic stuff, they usually just switch the $ with a € and voila, there's the new price.



Wow, that sucks. So I guess there _are_ some advantages in living here in the U.S., even with a @#$&#37;ing idiot running the country.  ::D: 





> I took a quick look at the hp, acer and asus notebooks with the same price as the macbook. They all bring OS and some software with them and are better than the macbook (not as good as the compal though).



Can we please see the links to these laptops?





> I don't see the logic in a windows vs mac discussion, windows vs OS X would have made more sense don't you think?



Agreed, but this thread morphed (from an ill-researched attack on one-button mice) into a debate about Apple hardware. In comparing a PC (as in any non-Apple computer that probably has an x86 or x86-64 CPU) to a Mac, it does make sense to discuss the OSes available on each. I'll take a PC desktop running FreeBSD or Arch Linux to a Mac desktop with comparable hardware any day, but comparing Mac laptops running Mac OS X to PC laptops running Windows XP or Vista, the former wins hands down, at least for me.

----------


## WhiteUnit

> How could I forget the "you're just a kid" and "I win because I know better" arguments, really original.
> 
> I'm turning 18 in 9 days and next monday I'll start having classes at university so cut the kid crap. You're just 2 years older.
> 
> You want sources?
> _"Compal 
> The world's 2nd largest laptop maker, Compal has designed and built laptops for all of the major brands as well as custom builders for over 22 years."_
> That's the description given in the compal discussion board on the forums from notebookreview.com (http://forum.notebookreview.com/)
> 
> ...



Facts wrong?  I said e260, but meant 280.  However I DID list the price of the 8 gig drive and compared with the 8 gig.  READ THE COMMENT RETARD.

And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18.  Why not just say 17 and a half?  Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form. 

Heres some more edjucation for ya, kid. Mac=Apple=OSX even if Microsoft doesnt not = PC. Mac OWNS OSX, Microsoft does NOT own PC.  The only way a PC is worth anything is with Linux.

I dont really care what they charge you in Europe, because I dont live there.  Microsoft and Apple are both American based companies, and I live in the US. And just because you link to some random message board I'm suppose to take that as fact?  Also I just LINKED to Apple where the iPod @ 8 gigs is $149, and your e280 is @ 149 as well.  Just cuz you checked Amazon doesn't count for jack.  Stated retail price by the manufactuer is all that counts.

And yes, there is something a Mac can do that PC cant.  Macs can have OSX and Windows and Linux.  Try putting OSX on a PC it wont be easy.

Your inexperienced, you cleaving for ground to stand on, and you got no evidence (at least from any legitamit resources) backing you up.  Game over, kid. I dont care what system you blow your cash on, I have left a well defended point posted here, and I'm through with you.  Peace.

----------


## Wavefunction

> Cool, so I've heard this point before. So your trying to tell me there are more people writing viruses for PCs? And yet, Apple throws up big advertising campaigns about how they don't get viruses, even without AV. And you think they aren't a target? Sorry, your just making that up out of thin air. Maybe more people write viruses for PCs because it so easy.
> 
> And BTW, there is no question of popularity with Windows, but there is also no question that Mac population is aggressively catching up.
> Over pricing is an opinion. If they are so overpriced why is iPod the most popular choice of MP3 Player? Kind of wierd.. overpriced = popular? Microsoft is the biggest Market Whore in history, another widely known fact, so where do you get off calling Mac a Greedy company?



Hacking is illegal. Therefore hackers need a compelling reward for the risk. Why target < 10&#37; of the computers in the world when you could target 90%?
It's not that it's easy, it's that it pays off better. If Mac actually got a larger user base, they'd get viruses too.

iPod is a fad. People are willing to pay lots of money for "cool" things. Even if it is overpriced.

----------


## Scatterbrain

> Facts wrong?  I said e260, but meant 280.  However I DID list the price of the 8 gig drive and compared with the 8 gig.  READ THE COMMENT RETARD.
> 
> And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18.  Why not just say 17 and a half?  Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form. 
> 
> Heres some more edjucation for ya, kid. Mac=Apple=OSX even if Microsoft doesnt not = PC. Mac OWNS OSX, Microsoft does NOT own PC.  The only way a PC is worth anything is with Linux.
> 
> I dont really care what they charge you in Europe, because I dont live there.  Microsoft and Apple are both American based companies, and I live in the US. And just because you link to some random message board I'm suppose to take that as fact?  Also I just LINKED to Apple where the iPod @ 8 gigs is $149, and your e280 is @ 149 as well.  Just cuz you checked Amazon doesn't count for jack.  Stated retail price by the manufactuer is all that counts.
> 
> And yes, there is something a Mac can do that PC cant.  Macs can have OSX and Windows and Linux.  Try putting OSX on a PC it wont be easy.
> ...



You DID state the facts wrong, you said the sansa couldn't show videos and it CAN, so stfu pisslips.

Why would anyone say they're 17 and a half when they're not even 2 weeks away from their birthday?

Sure thing, trust the price on the manufacturer's site and not the price on of a well known online store

Mac=appl=osx what's new? That's where the whole no freedom argument comes from.

I figured a notebook site and forum, full of people dedicated to notebooks, would have some credibility! Silly me.

Read the posts. I already mentioned that pcs probably can't emulate OSX, but the again, who would want to do that if there's not anything that macs can do that pcs can't?

Cleaving for ground? Your the one always evading the question and ignoring the facts. You couldn't give me one single reason why macs are so great and even worth higher price. You just keep shooting the ad hominem argument.

You continue insisting I'm a kid. "You're _still_ in school", yes, "school" which you didn't attend to. In five years I'll be a kid with a degree and you'll still be wiping apple's shoes in your tech job.





> Can we please see the links to these laptops?



http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=766
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=613
http://webservinfor.com/php/product_...roducts_id=685

I think these were the ones.

----------


## ninja9578

Of course there is nothing Macs can do that PCs can't.  Microsoft always tries to emulate the Mac.  If you can't innovate, imitate.  Let's not forget, Windows 1.0 was _pirated_ from the original Mac.  The imitation is never as good as the original though, lets see Windows integrate all of it's programs seamlessly.  Lets see how well it syncs it's calendar, address book, buddy list, and email programs.  How about Microsoft's office suite with Microsoft's cheaper alternative.  iWork can read every document created by AppleWorks, can MS Word read an MS Works document?  Nope.

Vista finally added widgets and voiceover, Macs have had those for 23 years.  They've also added voice control (I think,) a feature of Mac's since OS 8.

Let's see a PC go one week without leaving dead links in it's registry, or de-fragment its files on the fly.  Let's have Microsoft give it's coders easy to use APIs and workshops to show them how to use them.  How about unifying the system to 64 bits with a backwards compatible mode.  

Lets see them give us a way to close a program without individually closing every single window for it.  

[Not sure if they can handle this or not, please experiment for me]Lets see Windows open all of its programs at once with that aggressive page swapping and still be able to Expose.  (Time it.)  The aggressive page swapping out performed the lazy one once upon a time, but not anymore.

EDIT: I just did that experiment on my Mac, it took 3 and a half minutes to open all 34 programs and 13 folders in my applications folder (Including the resource hog iListen.)  Everything is still very reactive (I'm typing this while they are all still running,) when I click on one of them in the dock it comes to the top immediately, expose runs at normal speed too.  Now if you'll excuse me I gotta hit command q for a while.

----------


## dsr

> Hacking is illegal.



You mean "_cracking_ is illegal." Please don't use them interchangeably because the term "hacker" refers to a good person who creates software for others. A hacker builds things; a cracker tears them down.





> Why target < 10% of the computers in the world when you could target 90%?
> It's not that it's easy, it's that it pays off better. If Mac actually got a larger user base, they'd get viruses too.



This argument has been used many times by ignorant Windows fanboys or Mac-bashers. Please don't be one of them. Mac OS X isn't immune to cracking (see OpenBSD or Slackware if you care that much about security), but it doesn't get viruses. Part of the reason is that its Darwin subsystem is based on FreeBSD/UNIX, and part of the reason is that Windows is just inherently flawed and vulnerable to viruses.

Why would someone want to write a virus for UNIX OSes? Well let's see, over 70% of web servers run some variation of UNIX, so there is much more incentive for criminals to create viruses or trojans that target UNIX (including Mac OS X) than there is for Windows. In fact, there is almost no incentive for targeting Windows except for the fact that the majority of desktop users use it. But that's not an incentive because the virus creator doesn't get anything in return (unless he's a sadist who belongs in a mental institution). If a cracker has any kind of incentive for writing a computer virus that doesn't target web servers it would be a Mac-basher (for some reason, there seem to be a lot of people with an irrational almost hatred for the company Apple) who would love to see the look on Steve Job's face when a virus crippled Mac users just like they have been doing to Windows users since the inception of Windows.

In summary, if anything, there is more of an incentive to target Macintosh computers, the first reason being to attack web servers for personal gain and the second reason being that if you are crazy enough to write a virus that targets Windows for no personal gain, you're probably crazy enough to belong to that aforementioned "Mac-haters" group.

----------


## Ynot

> Why would someone want to write a virus for UNIX OSes? Well let's see, over 70% of web servers run some variation of UNIX, so there is much more incentive for criminals to create viruses or trojans that target UNIX (including Mac OS X) than there is for Windows



I've said this before, but screw webservers
If you want to cause real panic & mayhem, target the *nix database servers
nought like zero'ing a nations finances to get in the papers

----------


## dsr

> I've said this before, but screw webservers
> If you want to cause real panic & mayhem, target the *nix database servers
> nought like zero'ing a nations finances to get in the papers



Sure, same point. Didn't we have this exact same discussion in that big OS thread? Btw, I responded to your 24 commentary in the Google Earth thread ...  :smiley:

----------


## Ynot

> Sure, same point. Didn't we have this exact same discussion in that big OS thread?



yeah, I think we did  :tongue2:

----------


## Identity X

> Facts wrong?  I said e260, but meant 280.  However I DID list the price of the 8 gig drive and compared with the 8 gig.  READ THE COMMENT RETARD.
> 
> And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18.  Why not just say 17 and a half?  Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form. 
> 
> Heres some more edjucation for ya, kid. Mac=Apple=OSX even if Microsoft doesnt not = PC. Mac OWNS OSX, Microsoft does NOT own PC.  The only way a PC is worth anything is with Linux.
> 
> I dont really care what they charge you in Europe, because I dont live there.  Microsoft and Apple are both American based companies, and I live in the US. And just because you link to some random message board I'm suppose to take that as fact?  Also I just LINKED to Apple where the iPod @ 8 gigs is $149, and your e280 is @ 149 as well.  Just cuz you checked Amazon doesn't count for jack.  Stated retail price by the manufactuer is all that counts.
> 
> And yes, there is something a Mac can do that PC cant.  Macs can have OSX and Windows and Linux.  Try putting OSX on a PC it wont be easy.
> ...





That is the most needlessly venomous post I have read since RageOfArchilles last visited, but at least he's are an impressive feat of surrealism; you just sound like a jackass.

He was speaking about a consumer choice _he_ made in _his_ market, at a time where an IPod of similar specification did not exist at a remotely comparable or reasonable price. He even stated in his post that "Europe always gets ripped off." 

As I have stated, I also own a Sansa, a 4GB e260. Now, I'm not, and Scatterbrain was not, arguing the case that the Sansa is _objectively superior_ to the IPod. It is just at the time of our purchases the Sansa was the more _reasonable_ purchase. My experience does not care for your stated US RRPs (who buys anything at RRP anyway?), rather, that the iPod Nano was twice as expensive as the Sansa in Britain at the time (3 months ago) and an improved IPod was not on the market (and if it is now, it is still at a heftier price than the Sansa). I shopped around, too. 

As for a "well defended point posted here", I only see the tirade of an angry imbecile. I do hope you are not an imbecile and this was only a temporary lapse in intelligence. 

Also, your "OS-X can't go on PC" point is valid, but is ineffective. The vast majority of things you can do _within_ OS-X you can do just as easily in XP (and I presume Vista also), and the incompatibility with PC is not a fault of the PC at all; it is rather a design/marketing choice by Apple. They never intended OS-X to work for PC. That's fair enough. But what kind of argument is this to "prove" the inferiority of the PC?

And now to your most embarassing remark:





> And yeah, your a kid as soon as you said 17 almost 18.  Why not just say 17 and a half?  Your still in school and do NOT have a tech related job, and have no experience with Macs in any way shape or form.



He is a "kid" in your definition then. Fine with me. And if you didn't project some sort of childish, vague generalisation of stupidity or inferiority onto it, it'd probably be fine with Scatterbrain too. But there's no reason to assume anything about him besides that he may be a minor under your jurisdiction. He may work part time as a techie. He might be pretty damn good at it. Better than you, perhaps. And he may have been a Mac-user but grew disenchanted. These may not be true, but are all plausible. Gross generalisation via such an ironically childish label as "kid" only makes _you_ look like an arse. 

And by the way, I'm a month older than you. BOW DOWN BEFORE ME, CHILD.

Sorry, but that post was crap. Please be more responsible in future.

----------

