# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  ImJB's LDing workbook

## imJB

Hello all,

I'm new to this site. Some of the more active users have probably noticed me firing off qns all over the shop! As I've been exploring the site I can now see that maintaining a workbook in this sub forum is probably the best way to record my journey. 

I'm real excited to start a workbook and be able to start connecting with some teachers (and avoid spamming everyone else on the main board with my qns ha ha). 

I've introduced myself on a few threads but will repeat myself here to provide context to what I will be posting below.

I'm 29 and have flirted with LDing over the years without committing enough to see results.
About 10 years ago whilst I was at uni an American exchange student gave me Stephen Laberge's book. At the time I did stick with it enough to generate 2 lucid dreams I can recall. As I got older life has gotten in the way and I stopped practising 

Recently however I have found a renewed enthusiasm which I really hope to maintain. What's more this time I'm determined to do it right and be patient. The younger version of me found the slow progress frustrating.

I have started a workbook in the dream yoga section as well because I am also interested in that form of dream practise. My intention though is to keep these workbooks and the narrative of each separate. 

That said, my aim is create a hybrid practice between Tibetan practise and the non-spiritual practises. 

Anyhow, thanks for reading and for the assistance many of you will no doubt be able to provide me!

Cheers
John

----------


## imJB

Current state of play:

After about 2 weeks of pretty determined practise I am recalling 2-3 dreams a night. Recalling and recording my dreams has been my focus. Having been only recalling 1-2 dreams a week this progress is very encouraging for me.

The mantra "I always wake and remember my dreams" has been very effective. I find that I am typically waking 2-3 times a night and in most cases recalling my last dream. This is also new for me. The length of the dreams is variable, not all of these are extremely long or vivid, but I am definitely seeing more detail and variety emerge.

In the last week I am recalling detail such as conversations and interesting situations (like using my mobile phone and talking to people on it). Whilst these are kind of unremarkable to an experienced dreamer these sorts of details were absent for the 1-2 dreams I was remembering each week only a month or so ago.

As mentioned I have been hesitant to focus too principally on the goal of being lucid as I really felt like my dream recall needed to improve - baby steps you know? Seeing results on the dream recall has been really encouraging. Secondly, I felt that the vividness and clarity of my dreams was something I'd like to improve. As such for the last few days I have bee adding to my main mantra for it to become "my dreams are vivid and clear, I always wake and remember my dreams". Longer than some I can see but it covers all bases for me. I am putting it in the appropriate 'tense'?

For the teachers out their I would really like your thoughts on how I should approach the transition for focusing on dream recall to lucidity?

At the moment I am not seeing myself RC in dreams despite me doing these through the day (maybe 10-15 times per day). I'm putting that down to my focus on dream recall. What's more back in the day it did take me a month or two to get to the point of LDing those two times. I'm not putting pressure on myself though, if I want to do this right I know patience is key.

That's it for now, I'll report back in a few days. 
cool!
Jb

----------


## imJB

Events of the night:

Go to sleep at 11pm, wake up at 12.45pm. I know I've just been dreaming I can feel it. But just can't drag any memory of the dream. Hard to accept as my dream recall had been great.

Anyone got a neat trick that works those times your lying in bed and it just won't come out?
Could it have anything to do with it being the first REM cycle of my night? 

*****

Stayed up for 30 mins (logged on above to trying space out for a WBTB attempt) took me a long time to get to sleep, maybe due to to lights from my ipad typing the above? So asleep about around 1.45pm.

****

Awake again at 3.30am after my (unsuccessful I know now WBTB attempt). Wow I'm mechanical waking up after my REM at the moment. I remember a looooong dream maybe the longest ever for me. So long I need to tape record it rather than type so I don't forget. This is a first for me, so much conversation and flow on that I was concerned it'd take too long to type, a job for today now.

No lucidity though yet, not even an RC during the dream or thought to. Did well to lay still on waking - getting better at that. This dream was hard to map out backwards, a 'loose but there' narrative link between many varied scenes. 

When I tried my WBTB Going into it I was using the mantra "next time I'm dreaming I will remember I'm dreaming". I will now try another WBTB but use a slightly different mantra. "In my next dream I will question reality" instead.

My improved dream recall is great...hrmm why aren't i RC in dreams. To be continued, hopefully with a lucid before morning! Sleep around 4am

*****

Another attempt at a WBTB with no success but woke up after another dream at 5.30am. Tried WBTB AGAIN but woke at 9am with more dream recollection but no lucid.

*****

Never recalled so many dreams in one night (5-6) and I am actually surprised how routinely I am waking up after most/all (my REM cycles?)

----------


## fogelbise

Welcome imJB (or perhaps just JB?)! 





> As mentioned I have been hesitant to focus too principally on the goal of being lucid as I really felt like my dream recall needed to improve - baby steps you know?



 Exactly, this is what I recommend. Look at the long term goals and find a way to keep your practices going no matter how small the steps are.





> Seeing results on the dream recall has been really encouraging. Secondly, I felt that the vividness and clarity of my dreams was something I'd like to improve. As such for the last few days I have bee adding to my main mantra for it to become "my dreams are vivid and clear, I always wake and remember my dreams". Longer than some I can see but it covers all bases for me. I am putting it in the appropriate 'tense'?



 Yes, you are  :smiley:  Just as you are doing, they should always been in the present tense.





> For the teachers out their I would really like your thoughts on how I should approach the transition for focusing on dream recall to lucidity?



 I was going to suggest what you are already started doing in your last post...a lucid mantra during WBTB. Some people find more success writing out their mantras at least 30 times each night starting off with a new one. It can even be done during the day. Have you started noticing anything that is common in a lot of your dreams (dream signs)?





> Anyone got a neat trick that works those times your lying in bed and it just won't come out?



If you have started to notice certain things come up in your dreams multiple times you can think "Was I just dreaming about ______?" Do I feel any emotion or sense lingering? Was I dreaming about someone I know? Somewhere I have been? Day or night? Who, What, When, Where, Why, How? Was I looking for something(common themes like something lost or late for something). If you get a fragment, try to retrace your steps. If you feel your recall is drying up, starting to write it down brainstorming style might help.





> Could it have anything to do with it being the first REM cycle of my night?



Sometimes the first REM cycle can be harder, I think it just depends on how you were sleeping and how you were waking up. Sometimes my early dreams are a little more abstract. 





> Stayed up for 30 mins (logged on above to trying space out for a WBTB attempt) took me a long time to get to sleep, maybe due to to lights from my ipad typing the above?



Some people seem to have no problem with light, during WBTB and other do. If you feel like you are having a hard time falling back to sleep you can try eliminating the light and also things like reducing the time awake and make sure you don't think about things you need to do the next day or if you do accidentally, just write it down so you know you won't forget it and you can let that thought slip away and refocus your mind back to dreamy thoughts and goals.

RC's can take a while to show up in your dreams, but their real purpose is to get you thinking the kind of thoughts that would make you question whether you are dreaming...so the first way they may manifest is: "wait a minute, I am dreaming" and you may or may not feel the need to RC...usually it is just an Wow, I am absolutely dreaming type moment. If it is not, then you can RC to find out. Have several RC's to go through just in case one seems to tell you that you are awake.

----------


## imJB

Hi Fogelbise, thanks for stopping by.

Last night was interesting. I had 3 separate goes at a WBTB with no success but a lot of dreams recalled so a win on that front.

With the WBTBs I stayed up as described, and when I went back to bed simply visualised my previous dream with me realising I was dreaming in the scene I was recalling whilst using a mantra "next time I dream I will become lucid" or tried also "next time I'm dreaming I will realise I'm dreaming"

Waking up so many times was a bit crazy for me, before using the mantra about waking up after dreams I was someone that slept through the night. That mantra suggests my mind is accepting of them but having so many goes at a WBTB in one night and not getting much of a dream response at all is a bit of a let down.

Not to dwell though, hopefully I'll get just as many goes this evening.

Any advice on WBTB techniques would be appreciated....





> Have you started noticing anything that is common in a lot of your dreams (dream signs)?



I've noticed a number of reoccurring DCs but they are many people who are in my life daily. Perhaps the best ones I've noticed are

- My mum who passed away last year
- school/university themes (I don't study anymore)
- sport related (maybe too general? But I'm watching or playing them)


Thanks for your time,
JB

----------


## imJB

Another night with lots of dream recall. 
Dreams mire fragmented this evening though. 3-4 dreams but none extremely long.
Still no lucidity however final dream involves a conversation about lucid dreaming with a curious DC.
With Me explaining both what it is and saying I'm determined to develop the skill.
I'll take this as a good sign!

Jb

----------


## fogelbise

> Any advice on WBTB techniques would be appreciated....



 Yes, most people just do one WBTB in a night where you get up and get your mind a little activated (while avoiding waking life concerns and even avoid thinking about what you will be doing the next day). For most people approximately 4.5 hours after you first go to sleep is a good time to do your WBTB. You can still do your mini-awakenings where you just turn over and jot down a few notes. I know at least one DV member who wishes they didn't wake up after every dream...so something to keep in mind. For specific WBTB techniques, I found a lot of success with SSILD, which is fairly straightforward.

I am not sure how I missed this before, perhaps because it is similar to a Laberge mantra and it sounded good at first glance, but you were using the future tense in some of your mantras...using "I will." The most powerful dream sign will probably be seeing your mother. You can use a mantra as well such as "Every time I see (mum or her name), I am dreaming!" Do keep it present tense. You can also daydream about all the things you would like to say to her DC and even if you don't feel it is real communication it can feel meaningful and touching. And for your general one tailor it to yourself but keep it present tense such as "As I am dreaming, I realize I am dreaming!" or "Everytime I enter a dream, I realize I am dreaming!" I also used to use "Next time" but I now wonder if my subconscious takes it as "uhhh...next time" which is too often used when procrastinating and could very well be taken to mean "some time in the future." This one is a bit picky though.





> final dream involves a conversation about lucid dreaming with a curious DC.
>  With Me explaining both what it is and saying I'm determined to develop the skill.
>  I'll take this as a good sign!



 Yes, that is a good, sign!  :smiley:

----------


## imJB

Thanks again, for the advice.

Anyone able to assist on getting my mantras right??

Truth be told I'm a little confused about establishing my main mantra,

Which of these best represents the way I should think of them?

"My dream is vivid and clear. I'm aware and I'm lucid. I always remember my dreams"

"My dreams are vivid and clear. I always remember this dreams"

Perhaps coming up with a shorter one should be a goal but of course as a beginner I'm trying to cover vividness recall and lucidity which is near on impossible without reciting a paragraph! Ha ha any ideas?

Let's say from here I decide one of these is what I will recite most often - does this translate into then what I use falling asleep? And if so when would I then use a mantra to try reinforce a dream sign I've noticed?

Also, I've noticed that I have a propensity to wake after dreams through the night and have multiple WBTB opportunities. At these times is a different mantra recommended?

----------


## fogelbise

Since your recall seems good you could drop that portion of the mantra to make it shorter.





> Anyone able to assist on getting my mantras right??



Did the suggestions in my last post not feel right?..I am willing to help you tweak your mantra(s)...and yes you could use one when going to bed and one during your wbtb and awakenings if you go back to sleep easily.





> And if so when would I then use a mantra to try reinforce a dream sign I've noticed?



wbtb seems like the best time if not done both times.

----------


## imJB

Hi Fogelbise, - my comment to 'others' was more to spread the load! I certainly appreacite the assistance! 





> Did the suggestions in my last post not feel right?..



No its not that that they didn't feel right I suppose I've got all these ideas in my head and just not sure which to go with. Something tells me I may need to simplify the whole process. As I've said I have really seen an improvement in recal, even had conversations about LD in my dreams but so far no RCs or lucid moments.

Do you suggest speaking in the tense that I am in the dream already - ie "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware" or "My dreams are clear and in them I am aware" for example.

Or even just falling right back to something along the lines of "when I am dreaming, I become aware". 





> Since your recall seems good you could drop that portion of the mantra to make it shorter.



I thought this myself but hesistated because this improvement has only come in the last 2 weeks. I suppose I wondered whether dropping it might see my recall fall back.

Lastly, how would you recommend I make use of my wakings at night after my dreams? This stark increase in my night time wakings since I've concentrated on remembering my dreams has left me wondering what I should do with the time. Reading about WILDs tells me that perhaps those are best left until I am more experienced and stick to trying to induce a MILD? At the end of the day I do still need my 8hrs of sleep so perhaps there's something to be said for me not trying repeated WILDs that absorb a lot of sleep time while I'm still a novice.

Would you suggest just using the time to record my dream and then recite my 'main' mantra or an alternative like a dream sign or something else?

Cheers again,
JB

----------


## fogelbise

> Something tells me I may need to simplify the whole process.



I agree and especially since you are already sensing that yourself.





> As I've said I have really seen an improvement in recal, even had conversations about LD in my dreams but so far no RCs or lucid moments.



Dreaming about LD conversations is definitely a good sign and you may not see your RCs pop up in your dreams because they are mainly a mindset focusing on your self-awareness which you should start seeing pop up but it may take some time. For most people they realize they are dreaming and then may perform an RC after realizing, though some people do see it the other way around.





> Do you suggest speaking in the tense that I am in the dream already - ie "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware" or "My dreams are clear and in them I am aware" for example.
> 
> Or even just falling right back to something along the lines of "when I am dreaming, I become aware".



I like "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware!" You can even have in mind one of your recent dreams and imagine becoming aware during the dream if that doesn't feel too cumbersome...I often do this during my daytime RCs.







> I thought this myself but hesistated because this improvement has only come in the last 2 weeks. I suppose I wondered whether dropping it might see my recall fall back.



Well, you definitely want to keep up your DJ and that should help keep up your recall. You will have up and down recall days but if you feel like it is slipping you can certainly re-focus on it.





> Lastly, how would you recommend I make use of my wakings at night after my dreams? This stark increase in my night time wakings since I've concentrated on remembering my dreams has left me wondering what I should do with the time. Reading about WILDs tells me that perhaps those are best left until I am more experienced and stick to trying to induce a MILD? At the end of the day I do still need my 8hrs of sleep so perhaps there's something to be said for me not trying repeated WILDs that absorb a lot of sleep time while I'm still a novice.



It is recommended for most people to save WILDs for later so I think all of your thoughts above are on target in that regard. Your sleep is indeed important. If you find it easy to get back to sleep during these awakenings you can simply roll over and jot down some keywords from your dream and return to sleeping position. If you have no problem doing some mantras and falling back to sleep you can do some. So, my thought is, since you are waking up several times a night, keep them short and doze back off. Any time you wake up and feel like you are in between sleep and awake you can try to DEILD for 30 seconds (a form of WILD) and if nothing seems to have happened in 30 seconds you can try a motionless RC like seeing if you can float or notice if you are even taking breaths which most people don't in the dream body (of course the sleeping body back in bed is breathing and if you notice it and it feels natural then you are likely awake) and then either jot some notes in your DJ and/or roll over and go back to sleep. If you are getting enough sleep and feel rested you can check the time on one of these awakening and do a proper WBTB on the awakening closest to the 4.5 hour mark where you actually get up, DJ, walk around a bit, go to the bathroom (I can't stay up very long, but others stay up from 20 minutes to an hour). You just want to keep your thoughts dream related and not waking life concerns...if any waking life concerns creep in you can jot them down as a to do list that can wait until the morning at the very least.





> Would you suggest just using the time to record my dream and then recite my 'main' mantra or an alternative like a dream sign or something else?



Perhaps it would be best to stick to your main mantra in the beginning but if you saw your dream sign pop up that night and/or if it feels right to throw in a dream sign mantra/visualization session in there, go for it! I have seen the same dream sign pop up twice in one night in different dreams (with variations) on two recent nights. And the DEILD only if it feels right, if it feels like you are right on the bubble between awake and asleep, then as a beginner you can often slip back into a dream aware (lucid) assuming your REM cycle hasn't ended...DEILDs are more for if you are woken in the middle of your dream or it may even feel like the end of a dream but something in the dream or in your sleeping environment may have awoken you prematurely. It will feel different from an awakening at the end of a REM cycle but it may take some time to notice the difference.

----------


## imJB

Great post thank you, very helpful.





> Dreaming about LD conversations is definitely a good sign



Good to hear, it's happened twice nearly so I'm happening something sinking in somewhere!





> I like "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware!"



Me too, I'll try stick to this, it's tempting to try cover all bases but like you say I seem to be getting reasonable recall results with the DJ do Ill try keep it simple for a few nights.

I was recalling a dream this morning and can recall a mindset in the dream that almost felt like I was lucid - kind of 'proud' of what I was doing. Hard to explain almost like I was sensing a lucid moment but not remembering it if that makes sense.

Your recommendations on how I might 'best use' my night waking a I think will really help. I was seeing every time I woke up as an opportunity to try something like a WILD but felt maybe that was a bit advanced and just led to a loss of sleep. I'm not familiar with DEILDs so ill do some reading.





> DEILD only if it feels right, if it feels like you are right on the bubble between awake and asleep, then as a beginner you can often slip back into a dream aware (lucid) assuming your REM cycle hasn't ended...DEILDs are more for if you are woken in the middle of your dream or it may even feel like the end of a dream but something in the dream or in your sleeping environment may have awoken you prematurely. It will feel different from an awakening at the end of a REM cycle but it may take some time to notice the difference.



Ill need to do a bit of reading into this, I haven't read up on DEILDS. 

So to sum up, 

Are you basically saying that as a beginner lets keep it simple - if you feel like you were _just_  dreaming maybe try a DEILD and/an RC to check for false awakening....otherwise take it easy, do a DJ entry and just go back to sleep.

If I'm well rested and it's near the sweet spot of 4.5 hrs maybe try a WBTB MILD using dream signs if I've seen them that night otherwise just my main mantra?

Thanks for the practical advice. I have been pretty tired these last few night mixing the work week with my dream practise - probably not a good thing. 

I'll give this a go for a few nights and drop back to report how it goes. With good news of course!
Cheers
John

----------


## fogelbise

> So to sum up, 
> 
>  Are you basically saying that as a beginner lets keep it simple - if you feel like you were just  dreaming maybe try a DEILD and/an RC to check for false awakening....otherwise take it easy, do a DJ entry and just go back to sleep.
> 
>  If I'm well rested and it's near the sweet spot of 4.5 hrs maybe try a WBTB MILD using dream signs if I've seen them that night otherwise just my main mantra?
> 
>  Thanks for the practical advice. I have been pretty tired these last few night mixing the work week with my dream practise - probably not a good thing.



Precisely. Great summary John! The only other thing I would add, since you recently let me know that it is tiring, is to lean towards the quickly-dozing-back-off-side-of-things on most of your awakenings and if you still find yourself tired the following day you may want to avoid the longer WBTB until you feel more rested or perhaps save it for the weekends...which is when I usually save them for, but I have trouble getting back to sleep more than most people. If you feel rested enough, go with your gut feeling. After some practice you may find it easier to do some tasks and quickly go back to sleep and feel rested the next day. You seem to have gotten the essence of this idea anyway with this quote: 



> If I'm well rested and it's near the sweet spot of 4.5 hrs maybe try a WBTB MILD using dream signs if I've seen them that night otherwise just my main mantra?








> I'll give this a go for a few nights and drop back to report how it goes. With good news of course!



Sounds good. Check back in when you are ready to and you definitely have the right attitude with that last sentence projecting confidence and expectation of positive results! Cheers!  :smiley:

----------


## JoannaB

Hi JB, have you considered joining in a friendly competition:

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...read-16-a.html

One gets points even for nonlucids recalled, but it is a great motivation tool for lucidity.

Best!

----------


## imJB

Hi JoannaB no, but i also cannot say that I am familiar with those. I'll head over and take a look

----------


## imJB

Workbook entry

Dream recall has been much lower through the work week. Still remembering 2-3 dreams a night but they are more fragmented and not as long as those I got over the last weekend. Last night I woke up at around 1.5 and 3hrs after I went to bed and both times couldn't recall any dreams, which I thought was unusual.
Work again around 6-7hrs and could remember a couple of dreams. Later in the morning when I woke I remember another couple of fragments.

One dream involved my Mum who I think could be a dream sign for me, in the dream though that didn't click.

No lucidity yet apart from a conversation in my dream with a DC who was riding in a car with me. She explained to me that I we could drive faster in the car "but it was my mind hat was slowing us down". Interesting comment

Still really putting effort into the awareness through the day and combining with meditation practise each day (something that I think complements my attempts to LD but also something which in itself I want to learn to combat day to day stress and anxiety etc).

Tonight's Friday so I'm hopeful the opportunity to be better rested over the weekend will be a positive toward my practise. Seems like I might be one of those who takes a bit longer to see LD results but i am certainly way ahead in my dream recall than i have ever been before which is progress in itself,

----------


## fogelbise

The weekend can definitely give you the opportunity to ramp everything back up. See how it affects your recall and try to notice what you did differently from the last few days. If needed, we can figure out different ways to improve recall during the work week if you are mostly focusing on getting a good nights sleep and you continue to see low recall going into the next work week. If needed, you can always go back to your recall mantra until your recall seems to stabilize...but you could also just be seeing a temporary dip which is normal. Expect good results this weekend and post any questions you might have. I will try to check in over the weekend.

----------


## imJB

Yeow! Just woke from my first lucid dream! 
Above I said how I got lucid years ago when I was last really concentrating on LD but this was different.

So, bit of a low down.

Last few days I have been using my 'day time', mantra - "my dream is clear I'm lucid and aware". Reciting it whenever I increase my awareness + doing RCs. Sometimes adding on the end "I remember my dreams". 

I read something the other day though about subconscious messaging that said the most effective messages to your SC Have direct time frames so it's clear when you want the thing to happen. So last night as I was in bed before sleep I recited "tonight I will realise I'm dreaming". (The article recommended saying in x hrs I will realise I'm dreaming). I changed it because I wake so often I thought it would break the sequence. I'm gonna make this my 'night mantra'.

So I went to sleep and found myself awake after 2hrs. No dream recall. 2 hrs later (3am), dream recall and just went back to sleep and 2hrs again (5am) with recall again. This time though I watched some TV in bed for 15mins with the idea of trying a WBTB (although I wasn't so concerned with the 'process' - just thought ok I'll stay up for a bit).

So this time when I was going to sleep I spent about 4-5mins reciting "in 30mins I will realise I'm dreaming". 

So the LD - in the dream I. was being chased.  Whenever I got cornered though I was able to 'teleport' elsewhere before I'd get caught up to again and repeat. Still not lucid tho despite me 'knowing' I could do this. eventually I get into an apartment with a DC teenager, can't recall what it was but it hit me - 'I'm dreaming'.

I look down at my hands, my left hand has 5 fingers but my right hand has 6 fingers!. I get a bit excited and can feel my heart race a little. I'm sitting down but in my mind think about spinning and this does enough to restabilise the dream. I do my nose pinch RC and noticed how I can still breath. Glad I did these so I can visualise them working!

Through all this the DC is talking to me and I'm trying to take in the conversation, needless to say I'm distracted. I'm lucid enough also to take in the room and can remember how truly 'real' it looks - another great thought to remember. I decide I want to look out the window and start thinking about what I want to see. When I get up to walk over to the window the dream starts to fade. I try to spin but a feeling of claustrophobia in the room limits me from doing it well so I wake. Rather than try get back in I decide to record and celebrate! The part where I was lucid was probably about 30secs before I woke up.

Woot woot!

----------


## JoannaB

Congratulations! So exciting.

Edit: the competition has not started yet, but if it had, you would get these points for this:

2 nonlucid dreams recalled earlier that night - it depends whether you recalled whole dream or just part of dream, they would either count 1/2 point or 1 point each

1 successful WBTB - 3 points
Recall dream (for lucid) - 1 point
Become Lucid - 5 points
Do an successful Reality Check - 1 point
Successfully stabilize the dream - 2 points
(Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points - not sure whether you would get these points, since it sounds like the DC was interacting with you, but dud you interact with the DC consciously yourself while lucid?)
So you would get 12-14 points for the lucid, plus 1-2 points for recall earlier that night if you had such a night during the competition. And you would post either the above entry into the dream competition thread, or you would still post it here, but post a link to this to the dream competition thread. Alas the competition has not started yet, so last night does not count yet, but keep up the good work, and you will do excellently in the competition.

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome!! Solid 1st LD back with good memory to try the various things that you did. That mantra idea makes sense...do you feel that was they key for you? Celebrate and look back and re-read the LD again for inspiration. Congratulations!  ::D:

----------


## imJB

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. JoannaB I'll definitely check into that thread, it sounds like a good motivator.

Fogelibise - thanks! Seems like a really good first step after the mental effort I've put in. I suppose the idea now is to really instil that sense of 'I can do this'. Obviously it was short lived but that real lucid awareness was with me and that's what I'm looking for!

Whether it was that specific mantra or not who knows, but I think it has a lot to do with getting a system down - something that allows me to spend more time thinking about lucid dreaming and less time about thinking about thinking about lucid dreaming!  :Cheeky:  but I did have the dream 30-1hr after I was reciting the specific mantra.

Any specific advise on what I should focus on to maintain my momentum with this or just stick to what I've been doing?

Is there much point exerting effort in those really early rem cycles to lucid dream/or even feel that disappointed if there isn't recall in the early cycles? Seems like a pattern to me at the moment that those early cycles are short and don't yield that much?

For now I'm going to stick with the day time / night time mantra approach. It worked so far! Thanks again. Till next time  :smiley:

----------


## fogelbise

> Seems like a really good first step after the mental effort I've put in. I suppose the idea now is to really instil that sense of 'I can do this'. Obviously it was short lived but that real lucid awareness was with me and that's what I'm looking for!



Absolutely! And 30 seconds is not bad for your first LD after a decade break!...but you can definitely extend them.  :smiley: 





> Whether it was that specific mantra or not who knows, but I think it has a lot to do with getting a system down - something that allows me to spend more time thinking about lucid dreaming and less time about thinking about thinking about lucid dreaming!  but I did have the dream 30-1hr after I was reciting the specific mantra.



"thinking about thinking about" haha good point. What does "30-1hr" mean? Perhaps 30 minutes to 1 hour after...





> Any specific advise on what I should focus on to maintain my momentum with this or just stick to what I've been doing?



I would definitely stick with what is working but also take some time to go back and re-read and re-live your LD. I often feel a real "pep in my step for the rest of the day" but by the next day or two I need to remind myself of how awesome the feeling was. It can provide just the right motivation to maintain your focus and momentum.





> Is there much point exerting effort in those really early rem cycles to lucid dream/or even feel that disappointed if there isn't recall in the early cycles? Seems like a pattern to me at the moment that those early cycles are short and don't yield that much?



I often do not but I may try to at least jot a few notes in my DJ on the weekends during the earlier cycles. Weekdays, I just go back to sleep. You may find a good balance with some time and practice, but with your previous concerns about getting enough sleep, you might not want to worry as much about the early cycles, especially during the work week.





> For now I'm going to stick with the day time / night time mantra approach. It worked so far! Thanks again. Till next time



Exactly! I am very happy for you John. It reminds me of when I first got back to LD'ing after years and years away.  :smiley:

----------


## imJB

Well no sequel to Friday nights LD on the remainder of the weekend unfortunately.

Despite some considerable effort both days it goes to show I'll need to keep working away to increase consistency.

Last night I had two WBTB opportunities and with both I tried the 'In 20 mins I will realise I am dreaming' mantra.
No LDs to recalls but in both instances I remember fairly long dreams with good clarity. 

That's probably the next area of improvement I am seeing, on days when I have good recall the dreams I can are typically less fragmented. I can recall a more direct narrative through them and specifically recall conversations. I have been consistent in my meditation practise and I wonder if this is assisting my dream focus. I've read that it can.

How 'planned' should I be with my WBTBs? In both cases I woke around the 4-6 hr mark so figured they were good opportunities, both were also waking after a dreams. Do I need to set alarms for specific moments in my sleep cycle or should I just wait until nights I wake at approx. those times? 

I haven't really kept track how long I've stayed up each time either to see the impact it has, perhaps I should?

I've got a long flight home today (13hrs) and will have jet lag to deal with at the other end so I suspect it will take a week or so to get back into a groove. All my entries thus far have been done during a work trip so a challenge of sorts will be for me to work a schedule at home where time commitments are a bit different.

Cheers

----------


## imJB

I've been doing some reading just now - StephLs workbook in fact - and it led me to reading about SSILDs. This method is very intriguing and for someone like me it seems perfect as I often wake once or twice in the 4-6hr period each night without an alarm. It seems simple, not particularly time consuming and conducive to sleep. It sounds too good to be true?

Is it really as simple as monitoring your minds eye vision, sound and body touch for a few cycles and then sleeping!? 

I feel like all I need is a method that can unlock a few LDs in a short timeframe and my confidence is gonna do the rest. That LD the other night was a WBTB DILD I suppose (maybe a bit of MILD - but really what's the difference apart from a mantra or two) but this method sounds very practical for my sleep habits.

Would love your thoughts on it.....cheers

----------


## fogelbise

> Despite some considerable effort both days it goes to show I'll need to keep working away to increase consistency.



This is normal when you are starting out and if you keep it up you will see your consistency go up considerably. I definitely feel it is possible to have an LD whenever you want with the right effort and planning assuming you don't have factors working against you. I am not at that level, but I only put considerable efforts in during weekend sleeping. I am confident that it is achievable not only from my own increasing consistency but from other people's accounts. That kind of consistency would take considerable effort I am sure. You can have a whole lot of fun and great experiences without ever taking it to that level, so no need to commit to that level if you don't wish to.





> Last night I had two WBTB opportunities and with both I tried the 'In 20 mins I will realise I am dreaming' mantra.
> No LDs to recalls but in both instances I remember fairly long dreams with good clarity. 
> 
> That's probably the next area of improvement I am seeing, on days when I have good recall the dreams I can are typically less fragmented. I can recall a more direct narrative through them and specifically recall conversations. I have been consistent in my meditation practise and I wonder if this is assisting my dream focus. I've read that it can.



I see this as a positive, normal progression for someone who is apparently putting forth a good amount of effort. I definitely feel that meditation is helpful, especially with some of the more advanced stuff.





> How 'planned' should I be with my WBTBs? In both cases I woke around the 4-6 hr mark so figured they were good opportunities, both were also waking after a dreams. Do I need to set alarms for specific moments in my sleep cycle or should I just wait until nights I wake at approx. those times?



Based on your concerns regarding sleep I would do the latter: "just wait until nights I wake at approx. those times" unless you are in the weekend and want to make sure you don't miss that sweet spot, then you might consider an alarm. I don't like them waking me up too early in the night but last night I tried something new for me during my last 90 minutes of sleep that I read about and it gave me an LD. This method here: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html (I will also answer your SSILD question further down and I think either of these methods would be great for you to try next...the alarm one mentioned in this paragraph I used vibrate and stuck the phone in my pajama pocket for the last 90 minutes of my schedule sleep). Edit: this method involves the chance of waking you up *during a REM cycle thus allowing the chance to fall quickly back asleep and right into a dream with a much better chance to recognize that it is a dream...much easier for someone with experience but I wouldn't count it out for beginners without at least trying.





> I haven't really kept track how long I've stayed up each time either to see the impact it has, perhaps I should?



If you can mentally estimate how long, sure. I wouldn't watch the clock as it may keep you awake.





> I've got a long flight home today (13hrs) and will have jet lag to deal with at the other end so I suspect it will take a week or so to get back into a groove. All my entries thus far have been done during a work trip so a challenge of sorts will be for me to work a schedule at home where time commitments are a bit different.



Try to see it as a new challenge...don't let your rediscovered toy slip away as another memory of something you tried...I really wish I had kept it up years ago!  :smiley: 





> I've been doing some reading just now - StephLs workbook in fact - and it led me to reading about SSILDs. This method is very intriguing and for someone like me it seems perfect as I often wake once or twice in the 4-6hr period each night without an alarm. It seems simple, not particularly time consuming and conducive to sleep. It sounds too good to be true?
> 
> Is it really as simple as monitoring your minds eye vision, sound and body touch for a few cycles and then sleeping!?



I have found it to be quite a consistent method for me...not 100%, but I worked it up to a well over 50% success rate. Practice it during the day once or twice when your mind is not foggy from waking up in the middle of the night. I wouldn't say it only requires a few SSILD cycles though, the process as the author outlines it was taking me 4 to 5 minutes to complete and I have played with it longer and shorter and eventually started doing it my own way.





> I feel like all I need is a method that can unlock a few LDs in a short timeframe and my confidence is gonna do the rest. That LD the other night was a WBTB DILD I suppose (maybe a bit of MILD - but really what's the difference apart from a mantra or two) but this method sounds very practical for my sleep habits.
> 
> Would love your thoughts on it.....cheers



Sure John, I think you could pick one of those 2 techniques above to play with for 2 weeks to a month(then try the other if you wish...start with whichever feels right for you) and you should be able to put some more LDs under your belt to give you that confidence you mentioned! Let me know if you have any questions.  :smiley:

----------


## imJB

A bit frustratingly things have slowed down a bit this week.
Touched on the fact I was flying home to Australia earlier this week. These last three nights I've taken Melatonin to help get my body clock back into this timezone.
Whether it's the travel, adjusting to home and/or the melatonin it's crippled my dream recall this week! I was having up to 3-4 dreams a night but the last few nights I've been lucky to remember fragments.

Not sure exactly what's caused it but it must be related to the melatonin perhaps. Tonight will be the first night I haven't taken it since being home. I no it suppress REM sleep in the first half of the night and maybe it effects me more than others. I'll be having ad few drinks over the weekend with friends I haven't seen in a while so it won't be until next week that I get the chance to work on things well.

----------


## fogelbise

No worries, those factors were bound to make it challenging. Try to keep at least a minimal level of your day and night practices going until you can resume in earnest next week.

----------


## imJB

Still finding it challenging to get into a groove this week. Bit of recall improvement last night but still nothing like 2 weeks ago. I have been stressed this last week for various reasons. This might be smothering my mindset.

I've been keeping up my mindfulness practise + meditation though which is a long term practise that I know will benefit my dreams. Feels like getting lucid needs to be put back behind improving my recall. Admittedly this is a little disappointing but if I can get my recall back up to speed I hope that I can get back to where I was heading quickly.

----------


## JoannaB

I can relate with the stress affecting recall negatively. I hope both of us will get back to good recall soon.

----------


## fogelbise

> I've been keeping up my mindfulness practise + meditation though which is a long term practise that I know will benefit my dreams.



I agree! Good work keeping that up!





> Feels like getting lucid needs to be put back behind improving my recall. Admittedly this is a little disappointing but if I can get my recall back up to speed I hope that I can get back to where I was heading quickly.



I say go with your gut there and I bet you can get your recall back to where it was quickly if you remember what you were doing before. That is where a workbook and/or journal can come in handy...to track what is working.  :smiley:

----------


## imJB

Ok. Woke this morning, bad nights sleep. Poor recall for a second night but I'm basically certain this is bad sleep hygiene getting to bed. Bit of an argument with the better half threw my routine both nights and I think that really destroys my recall/lucidity. I got lucid two weeks ago so no reason why I shouldn't be able to very soon.

Gonna try a bit of visualisation next couple nights. Night mantra becomes "when I dream of Bald circuit (my childhood home) I realise I'm dreaming". I dream of here a bit so I'm gonna try incubate it as a dream sign.

----------


## imJB

Better sleep and recall last night.
Didn't wake after my 4.5hrs as usual. May have been tired perhaps.
Two decent dream recalls and a fragment. Dreams were more linear than the last week. More reminiscent of my purple patch. Still working on getting the right routine and mindset alongside the work week and normal life pressures, but making small progress.

Visualisations didn't come out in my dream but gave a purpose to my night. Will try again. I think it could be a fruitful lucid trigger if I can incubate I it successfully.

----------


## gab

Indeed, stress is not good for us. Sorry to hear about yours.

And that mantra sounds great. I have a good feeling about it. Maybe I start using something like that. I already use similar thing for WILDs, no reason why it should not work for DILDs. Thank you for mentioning it: )

Visualizing can be a great trigger to start the dreaming process. Even if it doesn't give us the exact dream scape we visualized.

Happy dreams ::alien::

----------


## StephL

Happy dreams from me also, team-mate!!

I once did a visualisation of our old house - I told myself, if I see it, I know I am dreaming.
Then I stood in front of that house - and the thought I might be dreaming came up - unfortunately I didn´t RC, but looked very closely at the details of the house - they were great - and I concluded, that I wouldn´t dream after all.. ::roll:: 
But with another house I dream of often - it worked - I did an RC.
I had incubated doing an RC with that house - not only _pondering_, if I dream.

I do not want to mix into your teachings here - not on me as a novice - just, I had this stupid happening, where I checked my visualized dream-sign for inconsistencies _only_.
And having done several visualisation walkabouts with the house - it was veery realistic.
Don´t forget to RC!
Cheers!
 :smiley:

----------


## imJB

Geez, another tough week. Just have not got a groove going now I'm back at work. 
That said I am now away from home for a week and will have the chance to spend each pre-bed time on dreaming. Last night was my first night.

Really concentrated on dream recall and had success. 2-3 dreams and 2-3 fragments. Took some effort to recall and woke a number of times through the night.

One key difference to the 2 weeks I've had (with limited recall) was that my sleep was closer to 9-10hrs than 7hrs. My dreams were solidly from 5+ hours onwards. Had a failed WBTB, just couldn't get back to sleep and after 45mins I resolved to just relax and sleep rather than concentrate on mantra/sslid etc.

**edit**
On reflection through the day, after doing some reading I realised that I probably had a SSILD induced FA or a couple. I did notice in the morning I had a dream fragment or two of waking up in the bed I slept in and going to the bathroom. I wrote here how I had a failed WBTB (did not get lucid) but on reflection SSILD is known to generate FAs so actually it was probably exactly that which happened.
**

So I think I will spend another night just getting my recall confidence up while casually aiming to get lucid.

A couple of qns I'd love some advice on if possible.

- what should I spend my WBTB time doing? Mild? Visualisation? SSILD? 
- thoughts on whether I should try setting multiple alarms through the early morning? Say every 30-45mins and try a WBTB each time?
- when I was lying in trying some sslid during WBTB I got a restless limb feeling. An uncomfortable feeling that almost screams flex/move your arms or legs. Is this at all related to going into sleeping mode?

----------


## fogelbise

> So I think I will spend another night just getting my recall confidence up while casually aiming to get lucid. 
> 
> A couple of qns I'd love some advice on if possible.
> 
> - what should I spend my WBTB time doing? Mild? Visualisation? SSILD? 
> - thoughts on whether I should try setting multiple alarms through the early morning? Say every 30-45mins and try a WBTB each time?
> - when I was lying in trying some sslid during WBTB I got a restless limb feeling. An uncomfortable feeling that almost screams flex/move your arms or legs. Is this at all related to going into sleeping mode?



I agree with the first sentence but you can definitely start working a little more than casually toward getting lucid if it feels right. Go with your gut feeling though. Recall is very useful.

Question 1- I would recommend that you go with which one feels the most powerful to you (go with your gut). If you aren't sure which one, go back to the one you have done the most that seems to get you going in the right direction/seems to help. If you are still not sure, I have found SSILD quite reliable. Thanks to FryingMan for this idea...if you feel yourself becoming more awake while performing any of these, back off and let yourself get drowsy before deciding whether or not to continue the cycles/mantra or whatever it was that was waking you up more. You must get to sleep in order to LD of course and too much tossing and turning can be rough on work nights though that often ironically leads to lucidity for me assuming I get to sleep eventually.   :smiley: 

Question 2 - if you mean in this way in the following link, it can be potentially quite helpful...link: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html ...but I recommend that it only wakes you up enough to notice it and that you can immediately fall back to sleep, like an auto snooze feature that snoozes after 3-5 seconds and repeats 20 to 30 minutes later (unless you can time out your REM cycles well and hit it right in the REM periods). If you are referring to an alarm to wake you up for a WBTB you may not want to do that more than once in a night unless you feel like it on the weekends...could be too disruptive to your sleep.

Question 3- that could be a sensation indicating your body was getting ready to enter sleep or it could just be the way your hand falls asleep if your head is resting on it. How long had you been laying down after your WBTB and doing cycles when you noticed it? The author of SSILD says it is okay to scratch or move but just to go back to the beginning of the cycle that you were on. It is rare that I feel sensations that are uncomfortable that I feel like I need to put up with until I enter a dream such as with a WILD. You may want to just focus on doing your cycles and then getting to sleep to induce DILDs for a while unless you are highly motivated to go for WILDs at this stage. Trying to stay still is primarily for WILDs and DEILDs and even then it is not mandatory.

----------


## imJB

Thanks fogelbise just gotta persevere at present. It'll turn!

----------


## fogelbise

> Thanks fogelbise just gotta persevere at present. It'll turn!



Exactly! You got this! Let me know if you have any other questions.

----------


## imJB

Bit of a mindset shift last night to try change things up.
Had a night of strong recall.
2 longish dreams, 2 shorter dreams and 2 other fragments.
Funnily enough I went to bed and just couldn't sleep for about 2hours, by that stage I actually thought to myself it might stuff up my nights practise.

Will try maintain the momentum, not trying to ignore being lucid but the dreams seem a bit absent of LD thought. Perhaps will bring more LD mantra into the day.

Read something yesterday about the dream recall mantra RA-OHM GA-OHM. Which I did use each time after waking with success. Will see if I this keeps working next couple of days.

*** qn on REM cycles I know that 1.5hrs is often thought of as the 'standard assumption' for many in the absence of actual data. I suspect mine could be closer to 2. Is this unusual?

----------


## JoannaB

Yup, I read that the average sleep cycle length is actually 90-120 minutes, so 1.5 to 2hrs, and that's average, so could differ. The first cycle of the night may also be different length then subsequent ones.

This looks worth reading: http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/...terns-rem-nrem

----------


## imJB

Another night of good recall
4 dreams, each quote detailed with a strong narrative and good clarity along with about 2 other fragments I can recall. Change in routine and attitude before bed seems to have really done the trick. Now to maintain.
Feel like I need to introduce more focus on lucidity but I'm treading carefully. As I really want to sustain this recall.

----------


## fogelbise

> Another night of good recall
> 4 dreams, each quote detailed with a strong narrative and good clarity along with about 2 other fragments I can recall. Change in routine and attitude before bed seems to have really done the trick. Now to maintain.



Exactly! And great job. The intention when going to bed is huge I feel. I find it absent too often and when it is absent it shows in my results.





> Feel like I need to introduce more focus on lucidity but I'm treading carefully. As I really want to sustain this recall.



Definitely go with your own timing. I have seen it suggested over and over, that the best, most consistent paths to lucidity have some kind of custom component or adjustment to them that you come up with yourself even if it is based on things that you have read.

----------


## imJB

Hopefully you're right fogelbise,

Another good night last night, 3 dreams and 2 fragments. About average for what I was doing a few weeks ago so happy that I'm getting this back.

I actually decided I was trying to hard to MILD and focusing on trying to recite mantras (quantity) than really focusing on doing them well (quality). I really significantly dropped how much I was focusing on mantras basically and just recited 5 or so times with more intent during the day and bed that I want to remember my dreams.

Now just gotta incorporate will to get lucid as well.....JB

----------


## imJB

Recall steady again, good sign. 2 dreams and 2 fragments.
No lucid but dream contained references

Saw a DC writing a 'things to do when lucid list' - had some great suggestions actually!
So still waiting for Lucid #2 but the signs are positive that the building blocks keep falling into place.

On another note used a brainwave entrainment track (binaural beats) for the first time yesterday and found it surprisingly effective. Sat for a 40mins meditation which is significant for a beginner who found 20mins a relatively lengthy sit.

----------


## fogelbise

> Saw a DC writing a 'things to do when lucid list' - had some great suggestions actually!
> So still waiting for Lucid #2 but the signs are positive that the building blocks keep falling into place.



This can be a positive sign. I agree on quality over quantity as well! I have a strong feeling that you are on the path to your next LD!  :smiley:

----------


## imJB

Brief LD this morning on the back of a couple of DEILDs I managed to chain together early this morning.
Didn't last long I'll admit but had time enough to stabilise the environment rubbing my hands, yelling out and try change a few things - which I wasn't successful at.

Hadn't been pushing my dreaming last 3 nights as I am partying it up with friends in a beach house for NYE! So haven't really been in a dream recall state! The LD this morning was quite brief and a bit unexpected but a good surprise none the least. Something to work on.

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome JB!! A nice New Year's surprise for you that foretells an awesome year to come I bet!! Multiple LDs through DEILDs is quite impressive as well!!  ::D:

----------


## imJB

Well it's been a while between drinks here. Thankfully that isn't because I haven't been around DV.

Over the last month the biggest difference between my dream practise to now has been my slow and steady incorporation of vipassana meditation into my life. Whilst it's fair to say the period through Xmas the NYE meant daily practise slowed to weekly practise (too much partying!) but now I'm back on the bike! Also, I've been continuing to fine tune my personal approach to lucid dreaming.

A s I said above, Truth be told I probably swung toward 'over-mantraing' for MILD not long after my last post whilst a lot of my reading was on mindfulness mediation so I've had a bit less time here studying dreaming and dream yoga. That said I've come a bit full circle.

I think personally I find the regular mantra'ing of the MILD approach a bit mechanical. Instead I believe that with mantras I get more out of quality than quantity. I think that mantras when I RC and/or daydream are/will be enough for me. 

What's more when I fall asleep I prefer to think of 'intention setting' than repeating mantras (more is less?). I've found lately that I've been enjoying much more visualisation going to sleep rather than mantras. As such apart from general colour visualisation practise I like to use the dream yoga practises.....that being the red lotus throat chakra for example on going to sleep.

If I'm honest I wouldn't attribute any LD progress specifically to the dream yoga chakra practises yet, however I do solidly believe you cannot ignore 1000s of years of practise so I think I will stick with them for now. Either way I figure my association of progress with them will subconsciously do the trick anyway?

Anyway a bit of a ramble but *slowly* and steadily I'm getting an approach together that works (I hope) for me (and I say this without yet seeing my LD rate going up!). I suppose in short I think what I'm trying to do suits me and if I tried anything too different I don't think I'd be able to keep it up long term.

So with that said I hope it works!

My routine at present (would love feedback)

- multiple 'awareness bombs' through the day...mantra at these times "this is a dream". Coupled with really questioning whether I should 'be here' 'how I got here' + hands 
- when I'm in this frame of mind i also say the odd mantra like "dreams are important to me" "I remember my dreams"
- 20-30mins (trying to increase slowly) of vipassana meditation daily
- on sleeping...generate compassion + relax technique -> intention setting (I could probably make what I 'think here' more consistent on a nightly basis) -> dream yoga visualisation before sleep 
- I haven't yet landed on a preferred WBTB timing or routine although I sense an increasing determination to learn how to WILD. I know it's harder but in some ways if I don't feel like heavily focusing on MILD is for me it seems like the sustainable long-term solution to me.
- I have been considering experimenting with galantamine to build confidence in this regard (I am conservative by nature so would do this in a methodical and I like to think safe way)

Happy 2014 all.

Cheers
John


****wow, the night right after writing this and going to bed I had my first WILD!
Posted in the WILD classes as I know this is a DILD space but would still appreciate any feedback and input as always! Cool.
http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13309...ml#post2074030

----------


## fogelbise

Congratulations on the WILD!!  ::D:  

As far as the section requesting feedback...If this feels right to you, I would keep it up and just keep good records of what you are doing and keep track of any changes you may make to your routine so that you can track what seems to be working. That being said, I have no experience with vipassana or supplements but I think that Sageous had experience with vipassana or perhaps another form of meditation and I don't think that he saw anything wrong with it. It might have been in his Fundamentals thread. Your path looks very different from mine, but making your own path is an important part of the equation. Feel free to track things in here, in dream yoga, or in your dream journal. It is good to see you around DV  :smiley:

----------


## imJB

Thanks Fogelbise





> Your path looks very different from mine



I suppose I can see what you mean, that said I still feel like I could use your advice on a few fronts.

Since I joined DV I have logged about 100 dreams in my DJ and I am honestly yet to find a usable dream sign that I can use on a daily basis!! Until I recently read something in Sageous' post saying he never really found dream signs for himself I just questioned myself. I just don't see regular objects, items or events in my dreams apart from things which are too ubiquitous to use.

The one exception is my childhood home. How do you suggest I foster this as a dream sign?

I still also see many chances in my dream where, in the dream, I think wow that's cool or weird (like an interesting sky for example) and just don't RC. Even after my WILD the other night, in a subsequent dream that night I told a dream character about my successful WILD and didn't get lucid!

Regardless of the difference in my approach to the norm, what you normally suggest someone do in this circumstance. Maybe I do need a little more mantra in my life! I think there's space to really improve my DILD #s. Maybe it's just a time and patience thing? (Ok im rambling now). Cheers

----------


## fogelbise

> The one exception is my childhood home. How do you suggest I foster this as a dream sign?



I would use visualization during the day perhaps right after your 'awareness bombs' to imagine seeing your childhood home and then realizing "this is all a dream" and 'practice' what you would do next: stabilization, recalling goals, reminding yourself that you are dreaming and reflect on the awareness of your true condition - that your actually back in bed somewhere and indeed this is all just a dream. That last point should counteract the possibility that the previous steps could just create a dream about lucid dreaming and bring more of you into your LD. I have seen it suggested that you need a balance between focusing on the yourself and focusing on the dream world for stability and I think that this is true. When realizing that you are really back in bed, you must also be careful not to put too much focus on your sleeping body because again you want that balance to allow focus on the dream world as well.





> I still also see many chances in my dream where, in the dream, I think wow that's cool or weird (like an interesting sky for example) and just don't RC. Even after my WILD the other night, in a subsequent dream that night I told a dream character about my successful WILD and didn't get lucid!



This is where our self awareness work comes in which can be combined with RCs, RRC, mantras and WBTB to help it along. Let me know if you have any questions.  :smiley:

----------


## imJB

I'm gonna get lucid before end of Jan. Hold me to it ppl!

----------


## fogelbise

> I'm gonna get lucid before end of Jan. Hold me to it ppl!



You are officially expected to have at least one lucid before then end of the month.  :wink2:  Seriously though, you can do it! Put additional effort into the day work and throw in some WBTBs.

----------


## imJB

:smiley:  fogelbise, I'm interested in learning a bit more on SSILD.
Can you please elaborate how you use it for me?

----------


## fogelbise

> fogelbise, I'm interested in learning a bit more on SSILD.
> Can you please elaborate how you use it for me?



My variation on SSILD is related to the cycles. I "warm-up" by doing two breaths focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back). This "warm-up" reminds me of how to focus on each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy to get the three points of focus correct. Then I combine the 3 senses into each breath. I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I am breathing out. When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep. Not being able to fall asleep on occasion is when I started experimenting with WILDs, sometimes with my sole intention being just to get to sleep but then when noticing the HH's I would remember various things I read about WILDing and experiment with them. Sometimes I would just fall asleep and often have a DILD, but more and more I was starting to succeed at WILDs.

----------


## imJB

And you find doing this before sleep (I'm assuming you're talking about when you first go to sleep) increases the frequency of your DILDs?

----------


## fogelbise

> And you find doing this before sleep (I'm assuming you're talking about when you first go to sleep) increases the frequency of your DILDs?



Good point of clarification.  :smiley:  I only do this after at least 3 hours of sleep, usually 4.5 hours or more. Pre-bed I just plan what I want to do later that night and then maybe do some quick mantras and sometimes a quick RRC (mostly done throughout the day). The author of SSILD says doing it when going to bed is not productive.

----------


## FryingMan

Sometimes when I really really think it's time for a LD again, I  "whip" my SC with intention: "OK, now it is TIME FOR A LUCID DREAM.   LET'S GET WITH THE PROGRAM, SC!   LET'S GO!  CMON!  LUCID TONIGHT!"

----------


## imJB

Didn't mek the Jan deadline but had fairly low level DILD last night.
I'll be first to admit I've let a poor sleep schedule and heavy workload swamp my practise. 

I had been entertaining thoughts that maybe I was letting it slip so last night is a good reminder of how your subconscious keeps keeping on even when you can't!

Don't remember what triggered it but found myself walking along a NYC street scape marvelling at how vivid and clear everything was. Funnily enough when I thought about doing a RC (looked at my hands) was when I woke up. More so because I think my mind wandered back to reality a bit too much rather than doing the RC as a means of staying the dream.

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on the DILD!!...and great to see you around. Better late than never on the deadline.  :smiley:

----------

