# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  Calea Zacatechichi (Dream Herb)

## evolo

Alright, it goes something like this:

I ordered this awhile ago and it finally came in the mail.   ::D:  Yes!! So, instead of taming my curiousity, I smoked a joint as soon as I could. It didn't have any real affects right away. I then decided to have a nap about 2 hours after smoking this magical plant. 

This is what I was hoping for when I ordered this plant: I became lucid. It is the first time I became lucid in almost a month. Not only that, the dreams were extremely vivid and extremely clear. 

I woke up with a huge smile on my face and felt very uplifted. My vision was blurred on the sides a little with that white blur you get sometimes when you're dreaming. You wake up in a total relaxed and tranquil state.

This is a very interesting plant and I encourage all of you enthusiasts to give it a try.

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## killfrenzy

hmmm...Ive never heard of it. Interesting I will have to check it out.

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## evolo

Here's another experiance with it:

I smoked a joint right before bed and fell asleep at about midnight. In the dream, I was with my dad in his suburban, and we reversed off a cliff. I remember looking back and seeing the ground coming closer. I said, "so this is how I die". I then braced myself for the impact.

The impact was extroadinary. I knew then, that I had died. I had actually belived, that my current life, in reality, was over. It did not feel like a dream whatsoever. A few seconds later, I woke up in my afterlife, so to speak (still in this dream). 

What happened now is exactly what I think will happen when you die. (In the book 'What Dreams May Come', it describes the afterlife in great detail. That is what I went through. I had died.

I woke up an hour after midnight. The feeling I had when I opened my eyes is unexplainable. It was like I got my soul ripped apart in my dream and woke up and felt it getting pieced together. I looked around my room for life, and realized that I had been dreaming. 

That was the worst feeling I have ever had in my life. That one dream of dying. I've died before in my dreams, but I thought I had actaully died this night.

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## Je33ica

I'm glad your alive...  ::rolleyes::   (jk)

Both your dreams were different but they were both the same.  One was enlightening and the other was frightening.  Both were powerful.

Drugs are powerful.  Be careful...

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## Evanescent

> Je33icaLy88  	
> 
> I'm glad your alive... (jk)
> 
> Both your dreams were different but they were both the same. One was enlightening and the other was frightening. Both were powerful.
> 
> Drugs are powerful. Be careful...[/b]



Be careful as in don't do them

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## evolo

I wouldn't say it's a drug really. It's just a plant. It's not classified as a drug and it is legal....

It's also used to make tea to help induce lucid dreams.

I prefer this over using melatonin.......Chemicals are iffy.

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## Berserk Exodus

Where might one purchase this dream herb?

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## Evanescent

Wouldn't you like to know, I would say if you can't ld without drugs then you shouldn't be allowed to.

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## LewisM

Evanescent... do you mean to say that epileptic people shouldnt be able to have drugs to control their seizures if they cant do it themselves? How about people with scitzophrenia? I could name many many more things that Im sure a lot of people would take drugs to cure/tame.

This dream herb sounds interesting. However, I value my lungs, being a sportsperson so I would probably take it as a tea

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## evolo

> _Originally posted by Berserk Exodus_
> *Where might one purchase this dream herb?*



www.bouncingb.com. Very reliable site and has some interesting products.





> Wouldn't you like to know, I would say if you can't ld without drugs then you shouldn't be allowed to.[/b]



He's just asking a question. Who the hell made you boss? Lucid dreaming has existed for centuries and in some cases, this plant was used to help induce them, and show people other realities.

Why do you have to be such an ass?

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## Alric

I think its best to be able to have lucid dreams without anything, just because then you can have them without bothering to use anything. Just because something is a plant though doesn't mean it isn't a drug. Any thing that has an effect on your body can be bad for you.

Its really up to the person though, I would just suggest you check something out before you use it. From reading that site it doesn't seem to  bad, I just wouldn't drive after taking it because it said you can have minor hallucinations.

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## Evanescent

I am not trying to be an ***.I am sorry I have annoyed you I didn't mean to I just have strong views on drugs(meaning illeagal drugs).So once again sorry evolvo.

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## evolo

Alright alright, apology taken. No more bickering.  ::wink::

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## Evanescent

K no hard feelings  ::cheers::

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## Suffocate

This herb has intrigued my interest. 

I'd be very happy to hear more "Field Reports", evolo, if you indeed use more.  ::D:

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## evolo

Well I smoke about a joint everyday of it, maybe two. I smoke it too relax during the day, and it provides me with a nice feeling throughout the day......Dreaming wise, I smoke a joint right before bed if I'm attempting to mess around with my dreams.

The first two times that I have done it ^^^^ have been the most intense. I have had a few lucid dreams since then, it's true, it is easier to induce them on this herb. Even if I don't become lucid, the dream is very clear and vivid. I also dream about things that I never have before, and things that I have never thought I would dream about. (Fighting on the front lines of WW2 being one of them).

I like this herb and intend on using it for quite awhile.

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## Bardo

I think I would like to try this out sometime in the future, when I've had some regular succes with LD'ing, as I'd like to try the melatonin/b-6 combo at some point. Always open for new things   :smiley:  

But I've read so much about how bad it taste, both when smoked and drunk as tea. Doesn't seem to bother you, evolo?!? 
Anyways, the way I'd probably go about it is to eat it in gelcaps or something like that. Tried my share of foul-tasting things, so I wouldn't mind "cheating" a bit   ::-P:  
Extracts and regular leaves can also be bought at maya-ethnobotanicals

And for anybody who would like to read more about the experience of dream herb, check out Erowid

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## smoovD

doesnt sound too bad, after a joint are you high like offa weed?  how do you think they compare, like is it a similar feelin or completely different? i was thinkin about tryin salvia but i heard negative things about it from a friend, he told me he had friends who tried it and it put them in a violent mood so i dont think i wanna try that

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## incubusfunkman

its similiar but different, its relaxing, but doesnt make you all dreamy headed, its very nice, the best affects happen when falling asleep on it

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## killfrenzy

My order of dream herb arrived today and I have two cigarettes rolled ready for before I go to bed so Ill let you know how I get on.

I dont really see it as cheating, I can get lucid normally and anyway its still my MIND making me lucid, the herb just unlocks certain parts or makes it slightly easier, same as using vitamins or eating cheese or something :-)

Dont know about the tea though, I heard its the worst tasting thing on earth, it'll be a while before I give that a go...

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## Nebulae

i went to a shop in my area that sells it the other week and i asked the owner "does it really work?" he told me i would have to smoke the whole lot (10-15g) to notice anything but generally its a load of shit, 

which made me sad  :Sad:  i havent had a lucid dream for maybe 8 years..

want a shoooooooort cut......

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## killfrenzy

on erowid (which I find to give quite accurate information) it says that it is SCIENTIFICALLY proven to increase the frequency of lucid dreams...which would suggest some guys in a lab somewhere conducted experiments and found it to work.

anyway... maybe the headshop guy meant that you probably have to smoke the whole lot to notice any effects whilst awake (like tripping in any way). I smoked a couple of cigs of it last night and the effects were very mild whilst awake (slightly relaxed nothing more)
To be honest i was a bit dissapointed with my dreams too that night...i had very un-vivid dreams- possible the least vivid all week.
On an interesting note tho, I did dream that I was dissapointed with the effects so I rolled a big fat joint (bigger that what I had smoked IRL) then my girlfriend came up to me and said "theres no time for that now, its time to wake up" And I went "aaawwwww" and woke up.

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## will.i.am

Salvia is good stuff but it dosen't last a long as say pot will.  I use Salvia for meditative purposes only, not for trippin', I use other things (carefully of course) for that.

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## bleadingvaultdweller

This is just for anyone who dosent like drugs....
you must remember that using certain drugs has been regarded as spirtual for the last 1600 years.  Just because Modern day societys turned it into a buisness where they could make a ton of money off of it and feed of peoples addictions dosent meen all drugs are wrong or the way people use it. 

Before you judge someones drug use make sure its about an addiction and not a spirtual reason, otherwise your kind of insulting some of the most ancient rasis that ever existed.

Oh yeah and for the salvia people you can get it in extracts over the internet at 20 times potency or 10 times potency this meens youd only have to smoke one or two grams to start reaching higher grounds. anyways use with care(its not that expensive this way either  ::mrgreen::  )

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## queensofthestoneage

[quote]This is just for anyone who dosent like drugs....
you must remember that using certain drugs has been regarded as spirtual for the last 1600 years.  Just because Modern day societys turned it into a buisness where they could make a ton of money off of it and feed of peoples addictions dosent meen all drugs are wrong or the way people use it. 

Before you judge someones drug use make sure its about an addiction and not a spirtual reason, otherwise your kind of insulting some of the most ancient rasis that ever existed.

Oh yeah and for the salvia people you can get it in extracts over the internet at 20 times potency or 10 times potency this meens youd only have to smoke one or two grams to start reaching higher grounds. anyways use with care(its not that expensive this way either  ::mrgreen::  )
And once again someone uses that shit as an excuse...Just because people have been doing it for ages and ages before us doesn't mean it's good. People have been smoking tobacco since ever, could you bother telling me, why is it good to smoke tobacco? Or what about alcohol? Yeah it's extremely wise to get drunk...
I have nothing against certain types of drugs for certain purposes, but when people use excuses like that to do it or just want to get their heads fucked makes me hope they have the worst trip ever.

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## Khaz

> This is just for anyone who dosent like drugs.... *
> you must remember that using certain drugs has been regarded as spirtual for the last 1600 years. Just because Modern day societys turned it into a buisness where they could make a ton of money off of it and feed of peoples addictions dosent meen all drugs are wrong or the way people use it. *
> 
> Before you judge someones drug use make sure its about an addiction and not a spirtual reason, otherwise your kind of insulting some of the most ancient rasis that ever existed. *
> 
> Oh yeah and for the salvia people you can get it in extracts over the internet at 20 times potency or 10 times potency this meens youd only have to smoke one or two grams to start reaching higher grounds. anyways use with care(its not that expensive this way either *)[/b]



Yeah, I agree with queensofthestoneage on this... just cause people have been doing it doesn't make it right.  You say we're insulting ancient races.  To be quite blunt, maybe we should be.  Keep in mind, back before a more scientific point of view was developed, anything that wasn't understood was spiritual to them.  Of course, they didn't know better at the time, but that doesn't make them right.

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## fireman22

> _Originally posted by queensofthestoneage_
> *And once again someone uses that shit as an excuse...Just because people have been doing it for ages and ages before us doesn't mean it's good. People have been smoking tobacco since ever, could you bother telling me, why is it good to smoke tobacco? Or what about alcohol? Yeah it's extremely wise to get drunk...
> I have nothing against certain types of drugs for certain purposes, but when people use excuses like that to do it or just want to get their heads fucked makes me hope they have the worst trip ever.*



I'm sorry but you sound like a complete ass.  When I come home from work, I like to light up a bowl and relax, maybe watch a movie.  I'm not hurting ANYONE by doing this, it's just something I enjoy doing as a pastime.  It's FUN, and I do it responsibly, at home or with friends.  What's so wrong about this?  Why would you wish for someone to have the "worst trip ever"?  And don't give me bullshit about ruining my lungs, THEY ARE MY LUNGS, I can treat them they way I want, I know the consequences...

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## djaio

And as long as we're talking about things that affect your body...

Ginger is known as a digestive aid and can relieve headaches.
Avocadoes and Bananas contain Vitamin B6, a nutrient known for helping lucidity.
Milk contains trytophan, which is synthesized by the body to make serotonin. In other words, it makes you feel good.
Milk also contains Calcium and Magnesium, both relaxants.
Chocolate contains a number of feel-good chemicals. It can be as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or cocaine.
St. John's Wort, a common herb available in health stores, helps allievate depression.
Poppyseed bagels contain trace amounts of opium.

I guess to live a virtuous, drug-free life, we have to resign to living in a cardboard box and eating apples and drinking water. Wait, apples contain fruit sugar. Scratch that.

We aren't in the 80's anymore. I thought everyone realized by now Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" propaganda is bull****. 

One last thing - did you know there are two receptors in the brain specifically designed to process cannabinoids(the active components of marijuana)? Kind of makes one think.

Happy dreaming everyone.

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## Howie

There is also a little more information in the Pharmacy on this herb.

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## Classico

I too must mention its effects.

I ordered it from my usual site The Basement Shaman, and I got both the Calea Herb aswell as a special "Dream Mix" that contained Calea aswell as some other stuff.

The calea did make everything very vivid, and nearly lucid.

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## Khaz

This I just have to comment on:




> Chocolate contains a number of feel-good chemicals. It can be as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or *cocaine.* [/b]



I'd like to see some proof of that.




> did you know there are two receptors in the brain specifically designed to process cannabinoids(the active components of marijuana)?[/b]



.......And that.  I hadn't heard either of those things before.  I know that chocolate can be kind of addictive in certain people, just the same way as some people are more succeptible to alcoholism.  *There is absolutely no way* I will ever believe that it's as addictive as cocaine or tobacco, period.




> Nancy Reagan's \"Just Say No\" propaganda is bull****. [/b]



Personal opinion.  *Disregarding...*




> I'm sorry but you sound like a complete ass. When I come home from work, I like to light up a bowl and relax, maybe watch a movie. I'm not hurting ANYONE by doing this, it's just something I enjoy doing as a pastime. It's FUN, and I do it responsibly, at home or with friends. What's so wrong about this? Why would you wish for someone to have the \"worst trip ever\"? And don't give me bullshit about ruining my lungs, THEY ARE MY LUNGS, I can treat them they way I want, I know the consequences...[/b]



Sure, I have no problem with people who do these things for fun, responsibly, in a personal setting.  Just don't bother me with it, and I won't bother you.  Just DON'T even get me started on second-hand smoke.  I have the right to do with my lungs what I want.  I will personally never do anything that is currently regarded as an illegal drug.  I will never get drunk, either, if I can help it.  This is a personal choice, and I'm not trying to force it on anyone else.




> I guess to live a virtuous, drug-free life, we have to resign to living in a cardboard box and eating apples and drinking water. Wait, apples contain fruit sugar.[/b]



And finally, that all depends on your definition of a drug.  Milk is not a drug.  Sugar is not a drug.  It is true that anything will have some effect on your body....

...but we don't drink milk to get high, now do we?

</my opinion>

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## Gwendolyn

This herb sounds neat. I definatly think I might try it.

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## jackonaut

it sounds to me like Khaz has been completely brainwashed by our society and/or his mommy.  i respect your opinion, but i'm guessing that you've never done any drugs, and therefor have no right to be judging those who have. why is it that just because a drug is used in expanding your consciousness, the new understanding loses its value? if you can obtain an understanding of something while using mind altering drugs, why is it seen as the wrong thing to do?  as long as one is able to apply this understanding to their life, they are succeeding.  do we not want to expand our minds?  lucid dreaming alters your mind and consciousness, how is that any different than what a drug can do to you. "drugs" have played serious roles in many successful civilizations throughout history, like mayans, native americans, etc, and by successful i don't necessarily just mean successful with money and technology, i mean that these people had a much clearer understanding of life and of the self, which in my opinion, is success.  i think the stereotypical drug user's image is giving you a completely conditioned and one-sided opinion on the whole issue.  maybe you need to go eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl. i garuntee you'll think differently, and more intelligently.

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## Classico

> i think the stereotypical drug user's image is giving you a completely conditioned and one-sided opinion on the whole issue. maybe you need to go eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl. i garuntee you'll think differently, and more intelligently.[/b]



Unfortunatly this seems to happen alot, and I never ever tell or force someone to do drugs, drink, smoke, etc... yet I never lie about my own experiences. I've had some bad trips, and atleast one nasty reaction from drugs in my life, and the only reason both of those happened is because I was being Stupid- however the countless things I have gained is priceless, and with knowledge you can prevent bad reactions.

So my view on it is, I won't tell you you're wrong, if you don't tell me I'm wrong or put me with the stereotypes.

Within the last year I owe a great great portion of my understanding to the the collective mind of McKenna, and his posits on the history of the Mushroom and our own Intelligent evolution.

Anyway...


P.S. Whilst pondering this post I decided I needed to add two more things.

Use, and Learn- if you aren't using it to learn you should possibly consider you're motives. The only time I don't follow this rule is with Cannabis and social Alcohol. I still gain from Pot, but I admit for the most part I smoke to relax and get high- however its worth mentioning I only smoke socially (which is a fair bit...).

I decided long ago not to try any Opiates or Amphetamines, as they probably wouldn't offer anything as fart as knowledge, and while I have displayed no addictive tendencys I would rather not risk it.  :smiley: 


P.P.S. Upon re-reading Khaz's post I noticed another rampant problem among drug users,. There is the Radical, the Intellectual, and the Vehement.  Ofcourse there is a 'in between' but for this situation it doesn't matter. The Radicals try to push their love of drugs or their want for us to ALL do drugs very hard, thus we get people stating:





> Chocolate contains a number of feel-good chemicals. It can be as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or cocaine.[/b]



and/or





> Nancy Reagan's \"Just Say No\" propaganda is bull****.[/b]



Neither of those statements are productive to ANY party. Cocaine is surely addictive, look at Charlie Sheen. However, alot of that addiction is purely based on the Self Control of the user, A close friend of mine does Coke every now and then and has had no problem with it, however the High has been described as "Speedy, and a Intense Urge to do more." So why bother?

Nancy Reagan is, for the most part, right. She may not have known crap about drugs, but for the most part the average American should just say no.

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## h0ju

Im with Classico on his comment  " if you aren't using it to learn you should possibly consider you're motives ", and think that if its harmful to your body whats the damn point? I say I cant force my views or opinions on people but when what they do affects others its time to stop ie: smoking in public and, drinking and driving. 

  Let's try and get back to topic though as this has become an opinionated flame on drugs.  I dont know much about Calea Zacatechichi, just sounds like any other tea I may drink except it tastes like ass and causes vividness as opposed to say chamomile for relaxation. Does this have any documented negative results on the body and mind (long term or short)?

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## Oneironaut Zero

I did a good bit of cross-referencing on CZ last night, and was persuaded to order some, so I'll let you all know of my experiences with it.

My main focus of search was side-effects. Fortunately, I was surprised to see that, not only could I find no side-effects, but was constantly greeted (often in bold) with "There are No reported side effects, long- or short-term." So I gotta say I feel pretty good about that.

Of course, I'm still going to be searching around for more information on it it, but everything I've read, so far, seems pretty positive. I figure it's worth a shot.  8)

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## h0ju

Cool can't wait to hear some more experiences with it. Maybe I'll do some research and order some myself.

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## Khaz

Alright.  As I seem to be a non-drug-using minority here, I won't even bother trying to argue.  This post will be the last thing I say on the subject of other drugs here.  Please do send me a PM if you wish to argue further, where things are free to get out of hand.  If you aren't already involved, you don't have to read any more of this post.

I appreciate the logical points of view presented by Classico and h0ju on the subject.  jackonaut, on the other hand, has irritated me quite severely...




> it sounds to me like Khaz has been completely brainwashed by our society and/or his mommy.[/b]



Lies.  I make my own decisions, and I stand by them.  Just because my parents didn't do drugs doesn't mean I was \"brainwashed by them\".




> 'm guessing that you've never done any drugs, and therefor have no right to be judging those who have. [/b]



You're guessing right.  But if I don't have the right to at least put forth my opinion, then who can judge you?  Only you can, and that's not a fair jury if I do say so.  Do you have to be a murderer to judge a murderer?  Of course not!  (Let the record show I AM NOT calling people who use drugs equivalent to murderers.)




> \"drugs\" have played serious roles in many successful civilizations throughout history, like mayans, native americans, etc, and by successful i don't necessarily just mean successful with money and technology, i mean that these people had a much clearer understanding of life and of the self, which in my opinion, is success.[/b]



Just because they did it doesn't make it right.  Also, prove they had a clearer understanding \"of life and of the self\".  Maybe they just think they did.  If we don't completely understand it now, how can we say they did?




> lucid dreaming alters your mind and consciousness, how is that any different than what a drug can do to you.[/b]



Simple.  Lucid dreaming is using your mind and willpower to alter your consciousness.  Drugs are using artificial substances to do so.




> i think the stereotypical drug user's image is giving you a completely conditioned and one-sided opinion on the whole issue. maybe you need to go eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl. i garuntee you'll think differently, and more intelligently.[/b]



I pride myself on my ability to avoid stereotypes.  I have an open mind, I have done research, and I have concluded that drugs are not for me.  Your encouragement for me to "eat some mushrooms and smoke a bowl" just makes me more convinced I don't want to, lest I should end up like you.  Your "garuntee" that I'll think more intelligently just makes me more convinced that you don't know what you're talking about, as does your complete lack of capitol letters.  Remember, when on drugs, consider that you may just think you're smarter...

Had you addressed me more politely, jackonaut, I would have done the same to you.  However, due to the fact that you seem already convinced that you're right, as well as that you don't seem to hear logic, I see no need to be polite.  I save my manners for those who I think deserve them.

If I have made *one single unarguably false statement*, then let someone step forward and call me a fool.  Everything I've heard on the side of drug use is all opinion, unprovable or trivial.  If you have something other than that to say, say it to my face in a PM, or just plain shut up.

For all the decent people who read all of what I just posted, _I am profoundly sorry_, but I simply had to say it.  I may have been carried away by anger, but I refuse to take back what I have just typed, as I meant every word.

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## jackonaut

khaz, i apologize for my attitude and sarcasm in the last post.  however i still feel strongly about this and won't back down from what i've said.  everything i've mentioned in the post is what i believe to be true.  i personally feel that if you can take something away from a drug induced experience and apply it to your sober, normal life, then you have succeeded in expanding your awareness.  when i say expanding awareness i'm really talking about bettering one's self on a mental or spiritual level.  i understand how drug use may go against someone's morals, and i respect that.  however, i don't feel that i have done any less work than someone who does not use "drugs" (i hate this label), nor do i find any of my realizations while under the influence to be any less meaningful.

i still feel that without having ever experienced mind altering drugs, one's opinion on them has less meaning, because they are unable to relate at the same level.  it's like a baby saying they hate brussel sprouts without having ever tried them. < and i know this from experience, they're actually pretty delicious.

p.s.  i may not capitalize my letters, but my grammar and punctuation is usually on point.

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## Khaz

> _Originally posted by jackonaut_
> *khaz, i apologize for my attitude and sarcasm in the last post.  however i still feel strongly about this and won't back down from what i've said.  everything i've mentioned in the post is what i believe to be true.  i personally feel that if you can take something away from a drug induced experience and apply it to your sober, normal life, then you have succeeded in expanding your awareness.  when i say expanding awareness i'm really talking about bettering one's self on a mental or spiritual level.  i understand how drug use may go against someone's morals, and i respect that.  however, i don't feel that i have done any less work than someone who does not use \"drugs\" (i hate this label), nor do i find any of my realizations while under the influence to be any less meaningful.
> 
> i still feel that without having ever experienced mind altering drugs, one's opinion on them has less meaning, because they are unable to relate at the same level.  it's like a baby saying they hate brussel sprouts without having ever tried them. < and i know this from experience, they're actually pretty delicious.
> 
> p.s.  i may not capitalize my letters, but my grammar and punctuation is usually on point.*



Wow.  That is the most mature response I've ever gotten to one of my ranting sprees.  Way to make me feel bad.   ::-P:  

Anyways, I appreciate your response, as I think you actually listened to what I had to say.  I will most likely never try any of these drugs, and so I will never see entirely from your point of view.  I know we will probably never see eye to eye on the subject, but I appreciate your respect of my stance.

And yes, your typing is not NEARLY as bad as some I've seen...

Also, brussel sprouts are disgusting, and that I HAVE had experience with...   ::lol::

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## Oneironaut Zero

Well, I'd say the first night went pretty well. Though I can't recall the events of the dream(s) (I only got about 5 hours of sleep) what I Can say is that the HI that you get off of Calea Z is AMAZING. I've always had the partial HI that disappears the second you thought wavers, but Calea gave me the best HI I've ever had. Hands down. It felt like I was deep into visual and auditory hallucinations for a good 45 minutes or so. I distinctly remember dreaming, and I distinctly remember that the dream(s) was noticably stronger than normal, but due to the lack of recall, I'm going to mainly say that the first night of Z testing offered not too much more than  great relaxation, and some incredible hypnogogic imagery before falling asleep. But then again, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, either. I'll let everyone know how tonight goes.

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## h0ju

Seems like it has benefits already... Please do share tomorrow

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## Oneironaut Zero

LMFAO. Now I know why I'm not a scientist.
I can't even discipline myself enough to get enough sleep to test the variable. LOL. (Ok, so that is only one of many reasons.  :finger: )

Anyway, I got about 5 hrs of sleep again. I slept through my alarm clock (which I haven't done in a Long time) and was almost late for work. This sucks because my first thought upon waking up was "OH SHIT I'm going to be LATE!!!" and I couldn't take too much time to sit in bed and retrace my dream steps.

Although, I can report that last night's experiences were similar to the night before. Amazing hypnogogia and relaxation. I remember dreaming, though I can't recall how vivid and/or lucid it was. I doubt I was lucid, though.

I'm not drawing any conclusions for a few days. This is the weekend before my birthday, and odds are I will have more than Calea in my system. Lol. So it would be unethical for me to base my opinion of Calea off of this weekend. Though I'll say, when I usually get plastered, I don't recall my dreams very well, and it is very seldom that I have an Intensely Vivid dream after a weekend of partying. But I'm going to keep smoking the Calea regularly until this batch is gone, so we'll see if it does have any effect over the weekend, though I don't think it will be likely.

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## h0ju

LOL (thats all I had to say)

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## Sandoz

> I wouldn't say it's a drug really. It's just a plant. It's not classified as a drug and it is legal.... [/b]



From Erowid:




> Effective Aug 8, 2005 (signed into law Jun 28, 2005) Louisiana Act No 159 makes 40 plants illegal, including Calea zacatechichi, when intended for human consumption. The law specifically excludes the \"possession, planting, cultivation, growing, or harvesting\" of these plants if used \"strictly for aesthetic, landscaping, or decorative purposes.\" (Text of HLS_05RS-52 and Update June 2005)[/b]

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## Oneironaut Zero

Due to levels of sleep (or lack thereof) that are counterproductive to the experiment, dream recall has been slightly hindered for the past few days. Its been a party week. What can I say? LOL. HOWEVER, though the contents of my dreams have been almost always lost from transition into the waking world, lately, as reflected by my unproductive recent journal activity, I can say with the utmost confidence that my HI and dream vividness has been standing out more and more with each passing day. I've had hypno-imagery that borders on drug-induced hallucinations and what bits and peices of my dreams I have recalled, despite not writing them all down, have been giving me the impression of deeper, longer, and more restful dream sequences. The other night, I've even tied my record for most dreams remembered upon waking, which came up to four that I could definitely recall, and the distinct feeling of having had More than those intial four, but having lost them upon waking. 
So far, I can attest that the Calea is definitely working to intensify dream sequences, even though I don't think the blunt or two during the evening is matching the amount of Calea i would be ingesting if I made up a batch of the tea. Thats alright, though, because I can already tell that it is working with the probably less than adequate doses I'm taking now, and I'll probably be upping the dosage a little bit to see if it helps.

----------


## djaio

Khaz, you make the mistake of simplifying all mind-altering substances as "drugs". And for most people, the word "drug" immediately conjures up images of harmful, addictive, easily-abused substances. This is called stereotyping. You're trying to make the issue black and white when it isn't.

Saying you've "researched drugs and determined they aren't for me" is like saying amusement parks aren't for you because, although you've never actually _been_ to an amusement park, you know people have died as a result of faulty roller coaster designs.

I could understand your viewpoint if you were simply against illegal drugs. If you want to be a law-abiding citizen, that's fine. But I still don't get what your problem is with Calea Zacatechichi and other legal substances. How is it "wrong" to burn a legal(unless you live in Louisiana) plant  that may or may not increase the vividness of your dreams? Seriously, enlighten me here. So far what I've gotten is that you think it's wrong because it's an outside substance. Which says nothing.





> ...but we don't drink milk to get high, now do we?[/b]



I dunno, we get our milk from a local farm, and it's pretty damn good. Seriously though, is getting high the morally wrong part? People get \"high\" from watching a really good movie. People get high from eating chocolate. People get high from having sex. And all of these things depend on an outside source.  What's the world coming to, eh? (yes, i realize this isn't the same kind of \"high\" gained from cannabis and others, but it's the same idea - a state of happiness coupled with release of endorphins)





> Also, prove they had a clearer understanding \"of life and of the self\". Maybe they just think they did. [/b]



This shows your naivete about what you're talking about. I don't know about everyone else here, but cannabis alone gives me immense clarity of mind and intuition that allows me incredible understanding of myself, my life, and the world around me. Stronger things, like Salvia Divinorum(legal, btw) have given me life-changing insights. I can't prove this stuff to you any more than I can prove that I'm not wearing a hat right now. We just have to trust each other, right?

A final note - remember the old saying, Khaz... everything in moderation.

----------


## djaio

Ah, almost forgot...





> _Originally posted by Khaz_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				did you know there are two receptors in the brain specifically designed to process cannabinoids(the active components of marijuana)?
> ...



They're called CB1 and CB2.
http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/canna...nabinoids1.html
http://www.4adi.com/flr/cannabinoidflr.html
http://www.cannabis.net/cb1/
http://apu.sfn.org/content/Publications/Br...rain_stash.html

I'd go more into this, but I don't want to spark a big discussion about marijuana, that doesn't belong on this board or topic.

And yeah, I realize I was exaggerating by comparing chocolate to harder drugs, but my point was that if you're going to condemn something for simply being a drug, that includes things like chocolate and sugar. Chocolate is a stimulant and can be addictive and harmful in large amounts, just like almost any other stimulant.

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## djaio

i either just killed the topic or owned it.

----------


## Classico

Yup, most anti-drug crusaders lump everything up- aswell as typecast every drug user as some sort of deviant.

----------


## evancho

just to the melatonin comment it really doesnt mess up your body chemistry and is not  chemical bsae i dont think it s natrually occuring hormone and it can give u crazy dreams

----------


## phoenelai

I did a couple weeks of testing. Although it didnt produce lucids but I did bring some vivid dreams. One night it kept me up, I wasnt happy about that but the other nights it didnt so not consistent. I had better results with b6 and a bananna at 3 AM.

 ::D:

----------


## tehownerer

Its legal everywhere in US except for Louisianna... Who knows!? o0.

Seems like an interesting little herb you have here.

----------


## scruffty

queries about mind altering substances

EROWID

http://www.erowid.org/plants/calea_zacatechichi/


so you can reserch your varity of brain damage to inflict upon yourself


thouh thisun looks quite healthy

----------


## wombing

i only use calea z about once every couple weeks to avoid needing it to get lucid...i have crushed up the leaves into powder and capsulated them in gelatin....i take 2-3 grams.

  once i became accustomed to its effects (it can make dreams so vivid and realistic you might think you haven't dreamt at all the first few nights using it), i am almost guaranteed a lucid.

  it also has the incredible effect for me of making each dream of the night mesh together moreorless continously, so that one snippet is all that is needed to remember the whole night's dreaming.

----------


## Lucifer the Lucid

I think that we all would like the other person to see drugs the way we do but it is very hard. Most people, including myself, go about it in a way that offends the other person. For example, when I first read Khaz's post it got me fired up and ready to jump into the debate that happens so often between people who use "drugs" and people who are against them. Having just recently gotten into an argument with a very close friend over the subject that ended badly, I hope that both myself and others can go about sharing our idea on the subject in a more constructive way. I put drugs in quotes because of the associations that people make with the word. I used to be the same way but now think of a drug as anything you put in your body that has an affect on you. This includes chocolate, vitamin pills, marijuana etc. I do believe that most people that are against drugs are not usually fully informed on the issue. The more I learned about the body and how all its intricasies, the more I saw "drugs" as a normal thing. While some drugs do introduce a substance that is foreign to the body, they ultimately use the bodies own chemicals to produce the affect. For example, marijuana does introduce THC into the body, which attaches to a receptor that normally accepts anandamide, a molecule made by the body. Through a sequence, neurotransmitters such as dopamine are released into the synape, the space in between neurons, and stay there for longer than normal. The body's own chemicals make the affect of the drug. Thats just my two cents on the issue and I hope it helps. I am very interested in Calea and probably will be ordering some soon. Does anyone recommend a site? Thanks.

----------


## phoenelai

I ordered from these guys. Good quality and allot for the money
114 grams (4 palm size bags) 23 bucks!

http://www.herbalfire.com/product_info.php...?products_id=39

----------


## Lucifer the Lucid

I ordered an ounce and smoked two j's the first night it came. i also had some chocolate milk before going to sleep. I didnt really remember any dreams from the night and I woke up very dissapointed because of all the good things I had heard. Toward the morning I fell back to sleep and finally became lucid! This was my first lucid dream in years. It was great. The dream was not all that clear and was fragile because it was morning. The dream was a bit washed out by light too. I tried to fly but it didnt work at first so I imagined there was a huge updrapt coming up from the ground and all I had to do was enter it and it worked pretty well. I think I'll try the tea next, but I heard it tastes like shit. I think the tea would last longer because it goes through the stomach unlike smoking which gives the affects right away. I cant thank you people at dreamviews enough for your help. It feels like I just found the rabbit hole and started to slip down it.

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## wombing

hey lucifer...the tea really is quite horrid   ::wink::  

  most drugstores sell gelatin capsules (really cheap)..get some fairly large ones. grind up the calea as fine as possible, and pack it into capsules (takes a little time, but you can always think about lucid dreams every time you do this).

  figure out a good dosage..i usually take 3 grams before bed. you can also smoke some if you want.

  this way you get effects right through the night.

  congrats on your lucid, and blessed journeys   :smiley:

----------


## ZenVortex

Count me in too, fellas.  I'm extremely busy working on deadline projects and haven't had any time for serious dreamwork or MP3s, so I'm going to give calea a whirl.  What I'm gonna do is powder some calea with a coffee grinder, then mix it into a very thick paste with olive oil, then pack it into gelatin capsules.  I'll set my alarm clock for 1.00 am then swill down a few capsules with chocolate milk.

The reason for using olive oil is to compact the powdered calea so it packs tighter and make it slower to be absorbed so I have enough time to fall asleep before it kicks in.  Chocolate milk can also produce LDs so this looks like a groovy combination.

----------


## Lucifer the Lucid

is the tea really that bad or can sugar and lemon make it ok? i dont really want to smoke it anymore especially since it doesnt last as long

----------


## phoenelai

I used some apple spice tea and it really helped. Calea taste pretty rank dude!  ::D:

----------


## Jess

If I remember correctly, putting lemon in it is a very bad idea  ::barf:: !  Use sugar or honey if you have to.

----------


## Lucifer the Lucid

I stuck a ton of sugar in and it was still incredibly bitter. I see what you guys mean now. I drank the tea before going to bed last night and had a very cool dream to start, but then had one of the worst nightmares ive ever had. Im not sure I want to try this stuff again if it gives nightmares. I havent had a nightmare since I was a kid and this one was way too real. Both times I tried the tea I didnt get lucid dreams until the morning. I would wake up and then really form my dreams. I was able to have another couple semi lucids. As fun as those semi lucids are, the nightmare really put a damper on my night. Does anyone else get very vivid nightmares when using Calea?

----------


## phoenelai

I didnt have any nightmares in my testing but I remember the dreams were vivid and real etc. Unfortunately no lucids from the tea.  ::shock::

----------


## Oneironaut Zero

I've had a few nightmares with Calea. Actually, it seems that _any_ dream "enhancer" that I take (B-6, Calea, dietary supplements, etc) leaves me more susceptable (sp) to nightmares.
They are definitely double-edged swords. On one hand, you can bet that your dreams are going to be much more vivid, drawn out, etc., but on the other, if you happen to slip into a nightmare, they are (for me) much more intense and harder to get out of.

The pros usually outweigh the cons though, imo, so even though I don't use "enhancers" every night,  I still don't mind sacrificing the possibility of a vivid nightmare for near-certainty of an incredible dream.

----------


## Lucifer the Lucid

yea your probably right. I just hadnt had one in a while so it was weird. I have had my first semi lucid dreams in years though. Ive gotten them all in the morning after waking up and falling back to slepp.

----------


## phoenelai

I still take b-6 on nights I'm working on lucids. They dont seem to give nightmares but my dreams are very vivid and real which is a bonus!

 ::D:

----------


## ZenVortex

Can anyone recommend a REALLY GOOD SOURCE of calea?  I imagine not all calea is equally effective, just like there are different varieties of tea, coffeee, etc.  If you are getting REALLY GOOD RESULTS from calea, can you plz provide the name of your supplier?

----------


## Jess

I imagine a lot of shops buy it from the same supplier, especially in the same geographical region.

Have you tried the 10x extract from IAmShaman?

It's in Chicago though so may not be the best value for money postage wise as you'll have to pay extra for import tax because it's from outside the EU, if it applies.

----------


## ZenVortex

I just tried taking calea for about a week with no results.  Went to bed about 10, woke up at 12.30 and took 3 or 4 capsules with a some water, then immediately went back to sleep.  No effect, except that the dreams were quite vivid.  Maybe I need to take more but the stuff seems to irritate my stomach.  Frankly, I'm not impressed and think there are better things available.

----------


## Jess

Thats the only effect it has on me really, makes my dreams more vivid.

I noticed you put olive oil in the capsules, maybe that's what irritates your stomach.  There's no need really in my opinion.  Something like this helps to pack them tightly, but it's not that cheap.

If I use it I smoke and/or drink it instead of using capsules.  Just because I think if the people who have been using it for years and years do it that way, there must be a reason for it.

This explains what I mean  well:

"The biological or therapeutic activity of a medicinal plant is closely related to the plant chemicals in it. These chemicals can be classified into major groups of chemicals such as essential oils, alkaloids, acids, steroids, tannins, saponins and so forth. Each one of these classes of chemicals may have a preferred effective method of extraction which facilitates getting the chemicals out of the plant and into the herbal remedy that is being prepared. For example, some active chemicals found in plants are not soluble or dissolved in water, therefore just preparing a hot tea with the plant, or even boiling the plant in hot water won't extract these chemicals into the resulting water extract/tea remedy. Generally, if they aren't water soluble, they won't be broken down in the digestive process either, so taking the plant in capsules or tablets won't be much help either. If the active chemicals aren't in the prepared remedy - then it probably won't provide any benefits that are attributed to these chemicals. These same chemicals may however be more soluble in alcohol. . . which is why the time-honored method of preparing the plant has been as a tincture (or a water/alcohol extract)."

I got it from this website.

----------


## Erebus

First of all, not every single drug is bad for every single person. Alcohol is more dangerous to use than Calea. Also, its been used by South American natives for hundreds of years. So there you go.   :Mad:  

Also, Bouncing Bear Botanicals is pretty sweet. I live in a suburb of Kansas City which is like 40 min from the store that BBB is sold out of.

----------


## TurkeyFace

is this like sleeping reefer or something? or is it a legal?

----------


## Jess

It's legal everywhere in the world, except sort of not in Louisiana.

I'm not sure what you mean by sleeping reefer but have a look here.

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## carlhungis

I have only tried the non concentrated version.  I have been thinking about picking up some 10x.

Can anyone tell me if they have tried both and if the 10x was worth the price?

1oz of regular is 7 bucks
3grams of 10x is 20 bucks

28grams in an oz.....  Just seems kind of steep.  Of course, I would like it if I didn't have to smoke as much of it to get an affect.

----------


## SKA

Yeah I read alot about Calea. I live in Rotterdam and downtown there is a New Age store. It's pretty big and they're gunna build a herbal corner with all sorts of dried herbs. I talked to the shopowners, I know them well. I told them I would bring them a list of several South-American herbs. 

Sinicuichi
and if you wanna read *all about Calea Zacatechichi*: Clicky here

----------


## Erebus

Well where to begin. First of all you don't need to smoke it. You can steep a tea from the leaves, however it is rather bitter. This is also possible to make a resin; you can find information on that through google. Finally there is the simple method of filling capsules and consuming them. I bought some calea for the first time the other day and have been experimenting with the pills that i stuff with calea. I've used it twice and have yet to recieve any effects, but then again the pills may not work. When I bought my Calea, I bought 1/2 an ounce, and it will be enough to last me for a few weeks if I continue taking two capsules every night. So I think that if you bou the 3 grams of 10x extract you will get some effects. Also, it may take a while for the effects to set in. I've heard of it taking up to two weeks to take effect.

----------


## carlhungis

> _Originally posted by Erebus_
> *Well where to begin. First of all you don't need to smoke it. You can steep a tea from the leaves, however it is rather bitter. This is also possible to make a resin; you can find information on that through google. Finally there is the simple method of filling capsules and consuming them. I bought some calea for the first time the other day and have been experimenting with the pills that i stuff with calea. I've used it twice and have yet to recieve any effects, but then again the pills may not work. When I bought my Calea, I bought 1/2 an ounce, and it will be enough to last me for a few weeks if I continue taking two capsules every night. So I think that if you bou the 3 grams of 10x extract you will get some effects. Also, it may take a while for the effects to set in. I've heard of it taking up to two weeks to take effect.*



Understatement of the century....  j/k.  I would reccomend that everyone try it, just so they can see how bad it is.  Shockingly bad is all I can say.  To some, it isn't so bad.... but for me it is honestly the worst thing I have ever tasted in my life.

----------


## Luci

I can't help posting a reply... First of all, I do not do drugs, never tried it and do not intend on doing it. Second, I don't mind if other people do as long as they don't disturb me (which does not mean I approve of it, but if you want to treat your body like that, your choice!) However, what I extremely hate is people who smoke in public (yep, tobacco is also a drug, even though it's legal); the disgusting smell that enters your nostrils, the feeling on your chest like you can't breath because it seems like there is no air, just smoke, and the tearing eyes and the feeling like you have a cold: these are one of the allergy reactions I have with tobacco smoke. Lots of people do not even know you can be allergic to tobacco, well you can! Just imagine cycling behind a person that is smoking  ::barf::  . Public smoking is one of the things that I will Never ever understand: the fact that you do not only ruin your own lungs, but also other people's lungs, MY lungs! Or people smoking in front of children! that should be a crime; slowly killing your own children... I know, I have a strong opinion and it's pretty harsh, but it's reality! I mean sure, you have a right to do what you want, but so do I! I want to be able to go out and not spend the following days sick because of that horrid smoke! I want to be able to go to a restaurant and breath freely, is that too much to ask for?
Other thing I hate: the fact that non-smokers wine! Just because we think it stinks etc. This results in many people who do not even dare to open their mouths anymore!
Let me make one thing clear: not all smokers are like this! I have some friends that smoke, but they don't smoke in front of people who do not like it, they try to avoid smoking in public or when there are children and they ask if they are disturbing someone.
So what I ask of all you smokers who are not that considerate: next time you light up a cigarette (or joint or whatever) in public, think of all the astmatic people, allergic people or simply the people who hate the smell, because trust me; that is more than 2 thirds of your surrounding.
Thank you for listening and I hope I didn't offend anyone, just made you think a bit   :wink2:  

Now... bact to topic!

ps I read a post somewhere saying that melatonin isn't a hormonal drug. It is actually: your body produces it at night so that you become sleepy  :smiley:

----------


## SKA

geen voorstander van kruiden roken?

Smoking herbs is well...not good for yout lungs no, cuz it leaves tar behind. It however does have psychoactive effects. Wether or not you want to sacrifice some phisical health in trade for mental insights and such should be all up to you. Everyone's individual choice. So oppose my view if you want, but don't look down on me because I have a different view than yours.

----------


## Luci

just because I oppose your ideas does not mean I look down on you! I thought I made it clear that I did not want to offend anyone; that it was my opinion. My main statement was that non-smokers should also be able to live the way they want and the way it is now, that's just not possible (for me at least (ok, and lots of people I know)).
And why would I want to offend a fellow countryman?!   :smiley: 
No seriously, you can smoke as many 'kruiden' as you want; I get your point of view, really. I just think it's a shame for the people who are confronted with it every day and do not like it. I suppose you get that as well?
Just one more time: I do not look down on anyone, well ok, there are a few, but I definitely do not look down upon the people I do not know, begrepen? Nor do I judge them! I just wish we could all live happily ever after and that there was worldpeace forever   ::morecrying::  Ok, kidding
anyways, sorry for the confusion!


ps since I'm quite considerate   ::D:  :
kruiden = herbs
begrepen = got it? or understand?

pps if only drugs weren't harmful!

----------


## Jess

What has smoking tobacco got to do with Calea Zacatechichi?  ::hrm:: 

Debates about 'drugs' get _really_ boring after awhile.  ::zzz:: 

Smokers have heard it all before and don't care.





> _Originally posted by Luci_
> *pps if only drugs weren't harmful!*



_Anything_ is harmful in the right quantities.  Eat too many bananas and you'll get potassium poisoning.  Drink too much water it could kill you.  Drink too little it could kill you.  'Drugs' are _not_ by definition harmful, or at least no less harmful than anything else.

----------


## SKA

> _Originally posted by Luci_
> *just because I oppose your ideas does not mean I look down on you! I thought I made it clear that I did not want to offend anyone; that it was my opinion. My main statement was that non-smokers should also be able to live the way they want and the way it is now, that's just not possible (for me at least (ok, and lots of people I know)).
> And why would I want to offend a fellow countryman?!  
> No seriously, you can smoke as many 'kruiden' as you want; I get your point of view, really. I just think it's a shame for the people who are confronted with it every day and do not like it. I suppose you get that as well?
> Just one more time: I do not look down on anyone, well ok, there are a few, but I definitely do not look down upon the people I do not know, begrepen? Nor do I judge them! I just wish we could all live happily ever after and that there was worldpeace forever   Ok, kidding
> anyways, sorry for the confusion!
> 
> 
> ps since I'm quite considerate   :
> ...



Yeah well I'm a considerate (pot)smoker and whenever I smoke a joint out in the open air in downtown Rotterdam I always find a spot were I won't bother too many people with the rather STRONG smell of the burning weed. I'm aware of how terrible it smells when you're not smoking it. So I try my best not to cause bypassing people any inconvenience.

Now Smoking Calea Zacatechichi isn't something I would do in the park on a sunny day. 

Calea Zacatechichi is a Herb i've read alot about ( YES also health risks, negative properties..etc) and it is said to work best when a Calea tea is drunk while smoking a Calea joint; the way Indians ( Chontal indians? Some mexican tribe anyways...) used this herb.

Now out off all those substances called ''Drugs'' actually not all are bad for the health. For instance Psychedelic Mushrooms are such an intense experience that people often think: it's drugs, it's really spacing people hard: it musty be unhealthy. Well  Psilocybin (which is the active tryptamine in ''mushrooms'') isn't at all dangerious or physically harmfull. As STRONGLY opposed by what most people tend to think of it. The Lethal Dosage is so high with mushrooms you must be bloody crazy to do so: 10 grams is a usual 1 person dosage of Hawaiian Mushrooms(Copelandia) which are a very strong kind of Mushrooms. Now I'd never eat more than 10 grams, but I know people who have eaten close to 30grams, which is bloody insane, but still not at all physically harmfull. 
(I read about the Lethal Dosage of Mushrooms, forgot the exact number of grams but it is like insanely high, way beyond psychosis dosis)

However I wouldn't do this, and stuff LIKE this ( Also Calea Zacatechichi ) too much and/or regulairly since it is Psycho active... Your Mind really needs a long rest after such a Psychedelic experience, be it Mushrooms, DMT or LSD...  Long and excessive use would simply make you go slightly mad over the years.... *NOT TOO MUCH AND TOO FREQUENT USE OF PSYCHO-ACTIVES* is wise if you want to keep your mind sane. Now I am a great fan of mushrooms but I only eat those Weird weird magical mushrooms about 4 times in a year. I don't feel like doing it more frequently too, but even if one would: 5 times a year and no more.

Now Calea isn't as exhausting and upsidedownflipping at all for your mind so you could smoke it a couple of nights for a week or 2 perhaps. But it would still always be safe  dosing yourself wisely and not too much and too frequent: That way you won't build up a possible tolerance or wear your mind down with an excess of psychoactives.

----------


## carlhungis

Incase anyone cares, I have recently tried the 10x concentrate.  It smells much stronger and it has a lot more moisture than the regular.  It seems to be more flamable as well, perhaps it has something to do with the concentration process.

Results were a bit better, but still nothing too fantastic.  I didn&#39;t try a large amount though, so I will update if I see any better results.  I did have 1LD and 2FA&#39;s during a nap, the day after I tried it.

As of right now, I am on the fence about weather or not it is worth it.  10x concentrate = &#036;20.00 for 3 grams, normal concentration = &#036;6.00 for 28 grams.

----------


## The Blue Meanie

> Understatement of the century....  j/k.  I would reccomend that everyone try it, just so they can see how bad it is.  Shockingly bad is all I can say.  To some, it isn&#39;t so bad.... but for me it is honestly the worst thing I have ever tasted in my life.
> [/b]



Actually, call me crazy, but after the second or third time I tried Calea, I actually grew to LIKE the taste of the tea.  If you can get past the metallic taste and the bitterness, it&#39;s actually quite nice.  But, I agree, most people find it utterly disgusting.

----------


## carlhungis

> Actually, call me crazy, but after the second or third time I tried Calea, I actually grew to LIKE the taste of the tea.  If you can get past the metallic taste and the bitterness, it&#39;s actually quite nice.  But, I agree, most people find it utterly disgusting.
> [/b]




OK, you&#39;re crazy.

I just tried it again (3rd time) and... um yeah, it doesn&#39;t get any better for me.  I think the best analogy for it that I have read is that it tastes like Donkey Feces.

----------


## The Blue Meanie

Well, I&#39;ve never tried donkeypoo tea, so I can&#39;t comment on that one...

But seriously.  It&#39;s not all THAT bad.  Actually, I wish I could afford more, but, I&#39;ve spent wayyyy to much over the past few weeks, I&#39;m way over budget.  Maybe if I manage to get ahead of my work for uni, I&#39;ll treat myself and ship in a decent amount of the stuff from the states, but meh.

----------


## carlhungis

I agree, I haven&#39;t tried Donkey Feces myself but I can imagine that they would be similar. 

I am being 100% honest when I say that I have never tasted anything worse in my life.  I can&#39;t for the life of me remember trying anything.  

If you say that it isn&#39;t that bad, then what would you say tastes worse?  I am just curious about what kind of taste buds you are working with.

----------


## The Blue Meanie

Oh, it&#39;s definitely bad the first time, one of the worst things I&#39;veever tasted, I agree.  The second time, not so bad... but after the third time, it was actually okay.   Huh... maybe it had already killed off my tast buds the first and second times, LOL&#33;  But nah, I just got kinda used to it...

----------


## DreamChaser

I can get it delivered in a powder form.
Anyone know if this is for tea or gelatin capsules?
Also do you take it with anything else?

----------


## Oros

ah, i would love to try it. just to bad that it ain't able to buy somewhere around here (i think) so i have to order from the internet.

----------


## Wattage

Bought some of the Calea and I also bought xhosa dream herb. Apparently xhosa is the mother of all dream herbs. It's suppose to be better than calea. I'm gonna test both of them out one by one, and in combination.  :smiley:  Muahaha ::banana::

----------


## Serpent

It's really not that bad, mix camomile and honey and its actually nice.

----------


## ushamie

calea Z is one of the best LDing substances ever apparently

ive been growing i at home

----------


## WolfTsunade

Can you buy it from a grocery store in tea form? How much does it cost to order it?... I hope its cheap...

----------


## Serpent

I dont think Ive ever seen Calea anywhere off the self (not saying it dosnt exist).

I got a plant online for $14, waited a year, now I have too much  :smiley: 

PS: on the drug debate (snore) let people do what they want in there home, it's not hurting any one. I do tend to push people into trying psychedelics at least once in their life (Imagines all the world leaders floating in space  ::D:  ), but if they say no im cool with that. 

If your saying no to drugs, i hope you dont drink coffee or alchol either btw. Naughty naughty drugs. 

PPS: I trip on mushrooms about every 6months, takes so long to digest all that you 'learn' <- very hard to explain  :tongue2:  And theres nothing wrong with smoking some cones with mates after finishing final exams after a good couple weeks study. Sitting around watching TV laughing and eating, jee, such a crime.

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## gnus6734

you would probably take it in the ass.

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## Mrsf0011

has anyone had success with this herb? if yes what method tea or joint?

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## Khombhat

[QUOTE=queensofthestoneage;191997]



> And once again someone uses that shit as an excuse...Just because people have been doing it for ages and ages before us doesn't mean it's good. People have been smoking tobacco since ever, could you bother telling me, why is it good to smoke tobacco? Or what about alcohol? Yeah it's extremely wise to get drunk...
> I have nothing against certain types of drugs for certain purposes, but when people use excuses like that to do it or just want to get their heads fucked makes me hope they have the worst trip ever.



People who express militant anti-drug views ALWAYS state that they "Have nothing against drugs...", but I have no desire to have a pointless battle against someone's swollen ego.  That said, wishing that someone will have a "bad trip" smacks of a very low and deplorable character.  If those are truly the sentiments that you wish to express then I will assert that no one should take your opinions with any real seriousness.  Grow up.

The world is full of experiences and the world is also full of self-important individuals who will want to tell others what experiences they should or should NOT be having.  These people are only ever really expressing their own insecurities by projecting them onto the world at large instead of dealing with their own repressed internal conflicts.

I am generally loathe to use the loaded title of "drug".  This is because the connotations implied by the word are overwhelmingly negative and misleading.

If we define a drug as being anything that changes/alters a person's state of mind then we must add sex to the list of drugs.  Few people would speak out against having sex, at least no one that the vast majority of us would ever want to talk to for any length of time.
That said, all things that feel good can be habit forming and all habits stand a reasonable chance of becoming unbalanced.  Imbalance is probably the biggest detriment to any life-form and is the real dilemma for any habit be it a habit of excessive exercise, poor sleep habits, eating habits, etc...

More to the point of the topic at hand, when we accept that sex has a mind-altering effect that is easily comparable to the euphoric effects of some drugs in the way they can bring about a sense of connectedness and understanding with others and when we consider that sex before a WBTB has been shown to increase chances of becoming lucid in a dream, we have to admit that altering our state of consciousness is what this is really all about.  No one would speak out against having sex in order to alter a person's state of mind toward a more positive, connected, and self-reflective state of consciousness so why then should we take exception to someone wanting to achieve similar results from a substance?  Probably because of the heavy stigma surrounding the word "drug".

Let me just ask everyone this: If a person reaches a state of self-realization which is directly responsible for a more complete mindset of self-awareness and psychological/emotional healing, thereby, making them a more effective, constructive, and happy member of any society, what does it matter whether they used a substance to do it or spent half a lifetime meditating in a cave?  Which is better and why?  Does the person meditating in a cave pay any taxes or contribute to society?  At best, they simply do not add any negative content to the world.  I haven't a problem with either, but I know which one I would choose.

Just because you think something doesn't make it true.  No one has a monopoly on the truth so why attack others for having an opinion when that is all you offer in return?  Why should any one person's views be more important than someone else's?

Now, let's talk about Calea Z. Real quick-like: It is not listed as a drug so if you want to insist that it is, just know that you can not back that up with anything beyond anecdotes so don't swell up like you have something to teach the rest of humanity because you do not.
Secondly, Calea Z. seems to activate a mental function known as Memory Continuity Facilitator which is naturally active when we are awake and naturally inactive when we are asleep.  This cognitive function is what makes our waking life experiences seem continuous and chronological.  When we are asleep, however, this function is generally inactive and so we are likely to experience what are commonly know as "time jumps" in our dreams.  Example: "I was eating cheese and crackers at my grandmother's kitchen table and, the next thing I remember, I'm golfing on the moon."
This is what makes Calea Z. so intriguing as a means of having a lucid dream.  The logic is that, if your dreams seem to maintain a more consistent and chronological set of experiences, a person is more likely to have the time to recognize his/her dreaming state and trigger lucidity.
This, of course, is not always the case nor is it always the case that you will remember very vivid dreams as a result of taking Calea Z. in any form.
I agree with others in that if you can achieve a state of lucid dreaming (or a state of lucid living for that matter) without the aid of other substances then you should do so because you will be stronger for it.  That said, we use a LOT of tools for learning to lucid dream and while dream journaling and reality checks are among those tools, melatonin, vitamins, foods of all sorts, and teas from all around the world are also tools that most people consider to be just fine when used for these practices.

I guess what I really want to say, for those of you looking for the tl;dr version, is this: When it comes to enlightenment and mental states surrounding the aggregate of human experience, why does one method gain moral high-ground when, either way, people reach a plane of greater awareness, compassion, and wholeness?
If a person wishes to risk their health to attain something of lasting value within themselves and they achieve it, who is anyone else to try to diminish what is a true accomplishment, no matter how you split the hairs?

Think about it before thrusting your ego behind the keyboard.

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## Whatsnext

I tried it a few times a few years ago, before I was interested in LDing but I was interested in dreams in general and wanted the vivid dreams Calea Z. promises. It didn't really work for me. I smoked a joint of it and also made some very strong tea with it (it's absolutely vile btw, my roommate couldn't even hold it in, ended up hurling, it is the worst thing I've ever tasted)

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## gab

> ...



As long as you know that you have replied to someone from 9 years ago.

_*Moved to Lucid Aids_

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## Khombhat

> As long as you know that you have replied to someone from 9 years ago.
> 
> _*Moved to Lucid Aids_



There are no time limits to the consequences of our words.
I do not care if he/she reads my response.  Others will while some will not.

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