# Off-Topic Discussion > The Lounge > Tech Talk >  >  Very Intrusive Virus: Caution

## louie54

I created this thread to warn the people of DreamViews about a very... very... invasive program that automatically downloads to your computer acting like an anti-spyware program. It is a fraud and it is EXTREMELY difficult to get rid of.

The program is called: *Antivirus Live*

The program is set up so that you can't do anything else but respond to it. Apparantly it's a scam for you to pay $50 to get rid of the so called viruses that you don't have. It even affects Task Manager. If you hit Ctrl+Alt+Delete, it closes about 2 seconds later with an alert pop-up saying that it is affected. Same goes with just about every program including regedit.

Plus, even if you may _think_ that it's gone... don't be fooled, because once you restart your computer, it comes back right on.

The program will also cancel antivirus programs that you may already have on your computer. McAfee for example will no longer function.

Talk about a nightmare.

*How do I know if I have it?*
-Trust me, you'll know... Trust me. If you are still unsure though, here's a picture.


*How do I prepare to get rid of it?*
-If you download Windows Defender, it will tell you right away when it detects something alienated. The trick is to wait for the pop-up from Antivirus Live and continue to wait, and the program will automatically take care of it. This will allow you to take further action and actually use the computer. I strongly recommend clicking the link and downloading this program because it maybe one of the only few programs that will help you.

*What next?*
-Do NOT restart your computer because you will have the program all over again. The next thing you need to do is download Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE). Once you have it, you need to run a FULL SCAN. NOT A QUICK SCAN. After a couple of hours, it should detect about 3 foreign items. Make sure they get deleted.

*And then...?*
-I will not say it again. DO NOT RESTART your computer. Especially after those long hours of a full scan. The next thing you should do is download SpyBot Search and Destroy and run another full scan. This should take care of the remaining things MSE couldn't. The scan should bring up about 10 items. After that, make sure the items are deleted.

*Finally!*
-Your computer should be free of this stupid program. You should now be able to restart your computer. You will know you don't have it anymore if the program doesn't load again after restarting.

*What if I already have it before I download Windows Defender?*
-There are a couple of ways to go about doing this.

1. Hit Ctrl+Alt+Delete and hold it and as quick as you can, go to processes and delete the first thing on the list that isn't task manager. You need to do this within about 1/4 of a second. The trick is to have your finger on the delete button and just keep hitting it when task manager pops up.

2. Restart your computer in SafeMode. When you turn on your computer and that picture of whatever is the brand name of your computer is up and loading, hit F8 (tap it several times if you feel it's necessary). Doing this and logging on will allow you to use your computer without anything invasive popping up. Note that it is normal for your desktop to look strange.

Well, I hope this helps. If you have anymore questions, you can ask or Google it. There's more information there about it.

All the programs I provided links for are _free_ and just because they are free doesn't mean that they suck. So don't worry.

*All has failed... What now?*
-I would suggest to reboot your computer. Make sure to save any important files to a CD or floppy disk. This requires a Windows CD. DO NOT run the Repair and Fix, it will do nothing. If you don't wish to reboot Windows, I would continue to search Google.

Good luck

----------


## Tyler

Thanks for the warning  ::D:

----------


## Maria92

Sounds kind of like the fake Alpha Antivirus program...one of my co-workers got it by simply visiting an msn page about the Denver Broncs. It downloaded to his system and ran right on start-up. We killed the process with the task manager, then manually uninstalled it. It was a pain in the ass to get rid of. 

Thanks for the alert, mate.

----------


## Marvo

> All has failed... What now?
> -I would suggest to reboot your computer. Make sure to save any important files to a CD or floppy disk. This requires a Windows CD. DO NOT run the Repair and Fix, it will do nothing. If you don't wish to reboot Windows, I would continue to search Google.
> 
> Good luck



Rebooting your computer is serious business.

----------


## Awakening

wth, a virus that needs 3 programs to get ride of.

----------


## Muggler

Thank you for the warning. You can save a whole lot a agony and distress just by telling someone about something.

----------


## Marvo

You guys should listen to the Security Now! podcast if you really want to keep up with the computer security news, and also learn a thing or two. You don't have to listen to all their podcasts, just take a recent one. They had a podcast about this particular virus not so long ago.

http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm

It is hosted by Leo Laporte and Steve Gibson.

----------


## louie54

Well I'm glad this is getting across to some of you. Rebooting your computer definetly is a last resort, but this thing is that bad.

Thanks for providing that link Marvo, I'll have to check it out sometime.

----------


## Ynot

Another leak
Keep bailing water.....

----------


## TweaK

> Well I'm glad this is getting across to some of you. Rebooting your computer definetly is a last resort, but this thing is that bad.
> 
> Thanks for providing that link Marvo, I'll have to check it out sometime.



You mean re_formatting_. There's a huge small difference.

----------


## slayer

You mean you've never had a fake anti-virus appear on your computer?

I just ran a virus scanner and it got rid of it without trouble :/

----------


## louie54

> You mean you've never had a fake anti-virus appear on your computer?
> 
> I just ran a virus scanner and it got rid of it without trouble :/



I have but it wasn't anything like this. This thing won't let you open _anything_.

And sure reformatting, we'll go with that. Or maybe reinstalling windows.

----------


## Maria92

> I have but it wasn't anything like this. This thing won't let you open _anything_.
> 
> And sure reformatting, we'll go with that. Or maybe reinstalling windows.



If it's anything like the Alpha virus, then yeah, it'll dig in and put up a big fight, probably disabling conventional anti-virus scanners, even the task manager. I'm surprised the sneaky bastard isn't using a rootkit, too. 

I use AVG, Ad-Aware, Spybot, and CCleaner. Also, this website has some pretty cool stuff, including free alternates to the task manager, so you can still disable the program if need be.

----------


## Ynot

Serious question....

Why do you all put up with such a poor operating system?
I mean, corporate networks entrenched in IE and MS Office are one thing, but come on

OP is a damn novel, requiring use of three separate security tools, and then there's a suggestion to listen to a security podcast

Christ almighty....

----------


## Maria92

> Serious question....
> 
> Why do you all put up with such a poor operating system?
> I mean, corporate networks entrenched in IE and MS Office are one thing, but come on
> 
> OP is a damn novel, requiring use of three separate security tools, and then there's a suggestion to listen to a security podcast
> 
> Christ almighty....



Ah, but if we all switched to Mac or Linux, hackers would target those Operating Systems, too.  :tongue2:  Besides, I find Windows to be more user-friendly anyway (probably because it's so wide-spread). Maybe in the future...maybe...

----------


## Ynot

> Ah, but if we all switched to Mac or Linux, hackers would target those Operating Systems, too.



I don't want to re-hash old arguments, as I've said this many times before,

but don't you think hackers target them already?
Linux runs most servers (online banking, financial data, yadda, yadda)
Criminals would be far better off targeting those, instead of one man's home Windows PC

Windows is full of security holes
that is the only reason it's targeted

but anyway....

----------


## khh

And most servers are being taken care of by professionals. At any rate, a lot of the viruses for Windows relies on user stupidity.

----------


## Maria92

> I don't want to re-hash old arguments, as I've said this many times before,
> 
> but don't you think hackers target them already?
> Linux runs most servers (online banking, financial data, yadda, yadda)
> Criminals would be far better off targeting those, instead of one man's home Windows PC
> 
> Windows is full of security holes
> that is the only reason it's targeted
> 
> but anyway....



Yeah, and I'm sure the 90% Windows User Base has absolutely nothing to do with it.  :tongue2:  Think big scale...it would be far easier to commandeer large numbers of computers and build a massive network to do one's bidding than try to take on a major corporation all alone.

----------


## Ynot

> At any rate, a lot of the viruses for Windows relies on user stupidity.



All the more reason to move the stupid users to a more robust system

Anyway, I wrote a long thing on the Ubuntu forums detailing this
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...62#post8424962

----------


## Shift

I had that last May. I had to keep killing it, trying to uninstall. I think I eventually just found the .dll file it was using, copied one from The Sims, and named it what it was installing as so that it couldn't install itself. Luckily I'd just backed up so a simple reformat was good enough a bit later.

----------


## Marvo

Alternatively you could try staying away from websites that trash your computer. I haven't had a real virus that actually actively did anything to my system for years.

Ynot, that podcast isn't Windows only. It's mainly Windows, of course, but they also talk about general security protocols that are being used across most, if not all, operating systems.

Until all of my games, and other software I use, is working as quickly and as easily as on Windows, then I'm not changing.

----------


## Ynot

> Alternatively you could try staying away from websites that trash your computer.



and how do you even know where's safe?

http://gizmodo.com/5390520/apologies...ads-on-gizmodo





> sorry but we had some malware running on our site in ad boxes for a little while last week.......And we would have noticed sooner except everyone on staff is on OS X or Linux for production machines

----------


## ninja9578

> Ah, but if we all switched to Mac or Linux, hackers would target those Operating Systems, too.  Besides, I find Windows to be more user-friendly anyway (probably because it's so wide-spread). Maybe in the future...maybe...



Hackers don't target those because they're next to impossible to crack.  UNIX's security is embedded in it's OS, not put on top of it.

Windows' security is like a guy with a baseball bat.  He's protected, but you've got to buy the bat, and you can't ever put the bat down.  UNIX is like a master karate instructor, his security is embedded in himself and doesn't need anything from the user.

----------


## Marvo

> and how do you even know where's safe?
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5390520/apologies...ads-on-gizmodo



I actually encountered that very same problem on another site. Avast stopped it.

----------


## Maria92

> Hackers don't target those because they're next to impossible to crack.  UNIX's security is embedded in it's OS, not put on top of it.
> 
> Windows' security is like a guy with a baseball bat.  He's protected, but you've got to buy the bat, and you can't ever put the bat down.  UNIX is like a master karate instructor, his security is embedded in himself and doesn't need anything from the user.



True, true...but if the user base was large enough, there would be an increased incentive to try and hack those systems. It would only slow the hackers down...they would still get through. Right now, though, the small-ish user base isn't worth the effort. If they had enough targets, though, then it would be worth it to scour the system for security flaws and develop a spreading virus.

----------


## Ynot

> I actually encountered that very same problem on another site. Avast stopped it.



Yeah, great, wonderful

The point is, if you're on Windows, statistically you will get hosed - badly
heuristic algorithms for detecting new malware are approx. 30% accurate

It's like walking across a field of landmines

I, for one, am not prepared to dedicate my time & effort needed to disinfecting my machines 'cause they have a defective OS installed on them

----------


## Tyler

Figures this thread turns into a "Windows vs. Linux" argument.

----------


## ninja9578

*nix has a 95% market share in sensitive data.

----------


## Ynot

> scour the system for security flaws and develop a spreading virus.



flaws in software, possible
Viruses, impossible (or so next to impossible it's not even worth mentioning)

see my post, linked above, on the ubuntu forums

----------


## ninja9578

Lots of Windows fans keep saying the same thing: If you protect your windows machine, it works fine.  

Shouldn't security come with the machine and take care of itself?  Isn't that like buying a car, but having to pay extra for the locks and having to upgrade the locks every month or so?

----------


## Ynot

> Figures this thread turns into a "Windows vs. Linux" argument.



Well, we've not had one for a while.

----------


## Tyler

> Well, we've not had one for a while.



I was almost beginning to miss them.




_Almost._

----------


## Maria92

> Lots of Windows fans keep saying the same thing: If you protect your windows machine, it works fine.  
> 
> Shouldn't security come with the machine and take care of itself?  Isn't that like buying a car, but having to pay extra for the locks and having to upgrade the locks every month or so?



Granted, but the Mac car should at least resemble other cars in some way. As a student, I would run into plenty of compatibility issues if I started using a Mac. It'd be like climbing into a completely different car where the steering wheel is on the ceiling. It may be built like a tank, but it would be unrecognizable to the standard car. Again, perhaps in the future when Mac and Linux become more wide-spread and compatibility issues are minimized, but right now, I don't have the time to sit down and figure out a completely different OS and try to work out kinks when crossing over to the Windows OS. It's far easier to simply run a virus scan or two (most of which, by the way, are self-upgrading and self-scanning). Set it to run when you're not actively using the computer, and you don't hardly even notice it.

----------


## ninja9578

What the hell are you doing that's not compatible with OSX / Linux?  Don't professors require documents get emailed to then using PDF?  Office doesn't even read PDFs let alone write them correctly.  Don't they put classes on Podcasts?  Those only work with iTunes.  ::?:

----------


## Marvo

> Yeah, great, wonderful
> 
> The point is, if you're on Windows, statistically you will get hosed - badly
> heuristic algorithms for detecting new malware are approx. 30% accurate
> 
> It's like walking across a field of landmines
> 
> I, for one, am not prepared to dedicate my time & effort needed to disinfecting my machines 'cause they have a defective OS installed on them



I know that. As I said, I've not had a problem for a while. My biggest discomfort with Windows is how it gets slower over time, and there's nothing that can be done about it except reinstallation. Windows 7 seems to do better than any previous version of Windows, but in the end it will still get sluggish.

Switching to Linux, however, will only cause me pain right now, since I'll have to run Windows either as a dual boot or a virtual machine, in order to use certain software that I need for school and freetime activity.
I've run a dual boot before, and I ended up sitting in Windows most of the time.





> What the hell are you doing that's not compatible with OSX / Linux? Don't professors require documents get emailed to then using PDF? Office doesn't even read PDFs let alone write them correctly. Don't they put classes on Podcasts? Those only work with iTunes.



I use MathCad for math work, and the assignments we're given are designed to be solved with MathCad.

----------


## khh

I've read several reports about Mac OS having as many security risks as windows, so I'm not really buying all of that security talk. (I haven't read Ynot's post on the ubuntu forums yet, though).

One of the main reasons I use windows, instead of Linux, for my day-to-day needs, is that the Linux GUI feels a lot slower.





> Shouldn't security come with the machine and take care of itself?  Isn't that like buying a car, but having to pay extra for the locks and having to upgrade the locks every month or so?



If you've got a genuine Windows copy, you can download their anti-virus which through testing have been proven to be as good as the solutions you pay for.

----------


## Marvo

khh, Ynot is talking about Linux in his post on the ubuntu forums, not Mac OSX. Where have you read that Mac OSX has as many security flaws as Windows? That can't be right.

----------


## louie54

Wow you guys bring a lot of good points.

Firstly, I agree that protection should come with your system. Like the scenario about buying a car and why should we have to buy the extras. But I also agree with Mario that I have used windows all my life and when I got on a Mac. for the first time in school, it slowed down my progress because I was just so use to using Windows. 

And khh also explained something before I could, that you can download free anti-virus software. Unfortunatly, MSE just isn't effective enough which is why I recommended SpyBoot.

Let's try not get out of hand here people. I'm just getting that feeling that some of us here are a little tense.

Oh and for the record, I got the virus by looking for a bigger version of my avatar for DreamViews. I went to this place that had pages and pages of avatars but that's where I got the flu. I thought I was protected with McAfee but apparantly not.

And I wrote the step-step novel so that noobs like me won't have to go through what I did. Especially the ones that really don't know anything about computers, it can save them the trouble of inconvinience and the costs of having someone at like BestBuy reinstall windows for them and waiting to get it back.

----------


## Maria92

Mcafee? Really? I use AVG...Mcafee sucks, and you get to pay for it. Yay!
http://icrontic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48444

----------


## hellohihello

You guys and your noob AV's.. malware bytes and avira = GG virus..

How does one go about getting this virus anyway.. don't go on sketchy sites

----------


## louie54

> Mcafee? Really? I use AVG...Mcafee sucks, and you get to pay for it. Yay!
> http://icrontic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48444



Well my computer did _come_ with McAfee installed on it... it hasn't expired yet ha! Even if it does, I still got the free Windows antivirus programs and spybot as my back up anti-antivirus killers.





> You guys and your noob AV's.. malware bytes and avira = GG virus..
> 
> How does one go about getting this virus anyway.. don't go on sketchy sites



Read the end of my post 38. 2nd to last paragraph.

----------


## Maria92

> You guys and your noob AV's.. malware bytes and avira = GG virus..
> 
> How does one go about getting this virus anyway.. don't go on sketchy sites



Derp. And I think it can camp out on any site at all, which is the scary thing.





> Well my computer did _come_ with McAfee installed on it... it hasn't expired yet ha! Even if it does, I still got the free Windows antivirus programs and spybot as my back up anti-antivirus killers.
> 
> 
> 
> Read the end of my post 38



You have _two_ antivirus programs installed? That's very, very bad. They will compete with each other and yeah...bad idea.

----------


## louie54

> You have _two_ antivirus programs installed? That's very, very bad. They will compete with each other and yeah...bad idea.



You sure about that? I'm thinking about deleting McAfee now since I got my new antivirus crew and my computer is starting to get slower but apparantly according to Marvo, it's just part of aging.

I haven't had any problems so far. When I was deleting the virus though, McAfee was disabled.

----------


## Maria92

> You sure about that? I'm thinking about deleting McAfee now since I got my new antivirus crew and my computer is starting to get slower but apparantly according to Ninja, it's just part of aging.
> 
> I haven't had any problems so far. When I was deleting the virus though, McAfee was disabled.



Yup, having two ANTIVIRUS programs is very, very bad. Spybot, Ad-Aware, etc are ANTI-MALWARE programs, and it's actually recommended that you have at least three of these installed. 

http://www.smartcomputing.com/editor...8s07/38s07.asp





> When two antivirus programs start prowling around, all sorts of problems happen, ranging from program crashes to system lockups. Because these programs typically remain on all the time, they generally load as soon as Windows boots, which means if you install more than one antivirus application on your PC, both programs load automatically and lock up the system before there's a chance to troubleshoot.







> We updated VirusScan 7.0 to its latest version using McAfee's online service. When prompted to reboot, we did, and Windows seemed to load normally, but it locked up a few seconds after the Desktop appeared. We couldn't shut down properly, and we had to use the reset button to perform a hard reboot. Each time Windows booted, the two antivirus products conflicted with one another enough to lock up the machine, putting us in a seemingly endless loop.



I'd say they're definitely competing with each other and slowing down your system...just be thankful yours hasn't entered one of the "crash loops" above.

----------


## hellohihello

Can you link the post? I can't find it. Also some AV's don't let you have another AV running, so it makes you uninstall before you install theirs.

----------


## louie54

> Wow you guys bring a lot of good points.
> 
> Firstly, I agree that protection should come with your system. Like the scenario about buying a car and why should we have to buy the extras. But I also agree with Mario that I have used windows all my life and when I got on a Mac. for the first time in school, it slowed down my progress because I was just so use to using Windows. 
> 
> And khh also explained something before I could, that you can download free anti-virus software. Unfortunatly, MSE just isn't effective enough which is why I recommended SpyBoot.
> 
> Let's try not get out of hand here people. I'm just getting that feeling that some of us here are a little tense.
> 
> Oh and for the record, I got the virus by looking for a bigger version of my avatar for DreamViews. I went to this place that had pages and pages of avatars but that's where I got the flu. I thought I was protected with McAfee but apparantly not.
> ...



Here I just quoted the post.

----------


## hellohihello

Thank you kind sir.  I do reccomend malware bytes/avira or even super antispyware.. all the others failed me when I cleaned out fathers computer. 92 viruses

----------


## khh

> Yup, having two ANTIVIRUS programs is very, very bad. Spybot, Ad-Aware, etc are ANTI-MALWARE programs, and it's actually recommended that you have at least three of these installed. 
> 
> http://www.smartcomputing.com/editor...8s07/38s07.asp



Three? Seems excessive...





> khh, Ynot is talking about Linux in his post on the ubuntu forums, not Mac OSX. Where have you read that Mac OSX has as many security flaws as Windows? That can't be right.



Thougt he spoke of security in a more general way.
At any rate...
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/securit...9234678,00.htm
http://news.techworld.com/security/1...-myth-exposed/

----------


## Marvo

> Three? Seems excessive...
> 
> 
> Thougt he spoke of security in a more general way.
> At any rate...
> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/securit...9234678,00.htm
> http://news.techworld.com/security/1...-myth-exposed/



Those articles are old and thus invalid. The world of security is constantly changing and adapting.

----------


## ninja9578

UNIX's major security feature is it's file permissions, that hasn't changed in 30 years.

----------


## khh

> UNIX's major security feature is it's file permissions, that hasn't changed in 30 years.



I must admit, the file permission system of Unix and Linux' way of handling user acounts is simply superb.

----------


## Taosaur

I'm too shy of hubris to attribute it to anything but luck, but in 6+ years of running my own Windows machines, I have yet to get a virus that affected my system in any way. I just run AVG and Windows Defender, and when I was running XP I almost always went without a firewall. 

I set up Ubuntu on a cheap laptop a few years ago, and after the honeymoon it struck me as much more high-maintenance than Windows, and quite hit-or-miss with hardware compatibility. I've used Mac for school and work periodically, and it was just the opposite: too idiot-proof, meaning I couldn't fix things if I didn't like them. For me, Windows is a nice middle ground where, yeah, you have to remember to change the oil, but you don't need to learn how to rebuild the engine to get a turn signal working.

----------


## O'nus

All the bullshit OS debating aside, this incident has happened to me and I reformatted my computer as a result.

Let it be known that, in my life time of using Windows, this is the first time I had ever had a major security flaw.  

Furthermore, it was incredibly easy to deal with.  

Also, I still game with my amazing gaming computer.

I am happy to see someone putting up warnings and how to deal with things rather than bickering about "which is better than which".




+ Linux at :29

For the lulz.  

~

----------


## Xei

I'm not sure if it was this virus but I got a fucking killer a couple of days ago.

It automatically downloaded itself to my laptop whilst I was in the kitchen and then kept trying to make me download some antivirus software. About 3 new infected files were being added to AVG every minute. It removed my ability to open the Task Manager, and slowly I got more and more popups and the thing hijacked my browser and started making noises.

Then it bluescreened and completely destroyed Windows, so I had to have the disc reformatted.

----------


## Maria92

Wow, that sucks...

Also, for any sports fans, the Bleacher Report website has been hijacked. Be extremely cautious...the same virus tried to screw over my boss twice, both times visiting pages from the bleacher report. Tread lightly.

----------

