# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Induction Techniques >  >  Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD)

## CosmicIron

A little disclaimer: There are many similarities between SSILD and the other lucid dream induction methods such as WILD, MILD, etc. In fact, if you wish, you could label SSILD as a derivative of those methods, or you could simply write it off as an old method with a new name since the differences may be rather subtle. Also I'm not sure if this name has been taken, so if it was then please let me know so I can change it to something else.  

*Update!* The steps for SSILD have been revised as of January 2013.  Please check the SSILD blog for an entry that describes the latest way of executing the technique: å®å®ã®é: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD) Official Tutorial

*Background*

While teaching lucid dreaming to novices I realize that many popular methods share a fundamental problem. That is, they all require too much finesse. For example, the typical WILD techniques require proper relaxation which by itself is a difficult subject. Another example is affirmation -- how do you do affirmation effectively? We all know that simply chanting mantras will not do the trick. Same goes for visualization, breathing, and the list just goes on and on. 

We need a method that is as effective as it is idiot-proof, hence the creation of the SSILD technique. A large group of people, mainly novices, participated in testing the new method, and within months we received many hundreds of reports of success. And unlike some techniques that only work for the first couple of times, SSILD users report consistent result from regular usage. Many even learned to induce LDs and OBEs on daily basis. 

*Theory* 

We do not know why exactly SSILD works. One user pointed out that the method shares some resemblance with the self-hypnosis method introduced by Betty Erickson, wife of the late Dr. Milton H. Erickson. Another theory is that by repeated stimulation of the various senses in a trance-like state, we incubate our mind and body into the right condition suited for entering a DILD, WILD, or OBE. 

Regardless the theory, it is utterly crucial to keep in mind that SSILD is not strictly a WILD technique. While many users report successful LD/OBE induction from the waking state, this method is equally effective at inducing DILDs. In fact, I strongly suggest users treat it solely as a DILD technique in order to use it in the most effective manner. 

*Step-by-step*

1. The best time to practice is after 4 or 5 hours of sleep. You could also combine the practice with WBTB for maximum effect but it is not required. DO NOT do this at the start of your sleep -- it will NOT work! The only exception is afternoon naps since you enter directly into REM.

2. Repeat the following procedures 4 or 5 times. DO NOT attempt too many repetitions even if you don't feel anything. Remember you are not doing a WILD. You are simply setting things up for OBEs and LDs to occur at later point. If you repeat too many times you may risk losing sleep thus destroys the purpose.

2a) With your eyes closed, stare at the darkness behind your eyelids for 15-20 seconds. Try to pick up any colors, lights, or images, but do not strain your eye muscle. If you see nothing but darkness, that's fine. Again, we are not striving to induce dreams from the waked state, so do NOT force it. It is perfectly fine to not feel anything. 

2b) Listen to the noises in your ears for 15-20 seconds. Chances are you will hear some light humming and buzzing sound. See if you can hear it more clearly. If you don't hear anything that's okay.

2c) Notice any strange body sensations such as heaviness, tingling, and movements. Pay attention particularly to the head, hands, fingers, abdomen, feet, and toes. Again, it is perfectly fine if you don't feel anything strange.

The above steps should be performed in a relaxed manner, slowly, lazily, and without any rational thoughts. The 15-20 seconds duration is for your reference only, so do NOT count in your head! Chances are, after a couple of repetitions you will begin to feel sleepy, to the point your mind may drift away and forget to continue the exercise. Congratulations, this is exactly the effect we are after! When this happens just pull your mind back a bit and resume from where you drifted away. If you lost count of the repetitions then simply do a new set. It won't hurt.

3. Find the most comfortable position and try to fall asleep as quickly as possible! The quicker you fall asleep the more likely you will succeed later in your dreams!

*What's going to happen*

Several things may happen through this exercise:

1. After you fall asleep, you may suddenly wake up with a strange sensation. You will feel wide awake, and your body weightless. At this point just do a reality check and roll out from your bed to begin an OBE.

2. You wake up with vibrations and other strange sensations. Hung onto these sensations will lead you into an OBE.

3. You suddenly become lucid in your dreams with no apparent reasons, or you may begin to suspect you are dreaming. 

4. You have a False Awakening. Unlike the first experience, you may feel awake but still drowsy. FAs will occur frequently with SSILD, therefore you should get used to it and become good at identifying them.

5. A WILD or direct OBE. Phase entrance may occur during the repetition, with your mind still awake. When this happens, many of the sensations become amplified. You should stop doing any further exercises, and begin focusing on the sensations until you successfully enter the phase. 

6. If all else fail you can try the following technique as a last resort. Upon waking up again, which you eventually will after step 3, try relax your head and allow it to sink into the pillow. If done correctly you will generate vibrations and enter an OBE from a fully waked state. This works because SSILD has prepared your body and mind to enter a phase easily. In fact if you increase the number of repetitions you may be able to do this even before you fall asleep from step 3!

*About me*

My personal research and practice on lucid dreaming dates back in early 90s. Throughout the years I've recorded thousands of LDs and OBEs. Two years ago I joined a lucid dreaming forum in China, and since then have become one of their prominent writers and trainers. The forum quickly grew to over 60,000 active members. This provided me with an excellent test bed for new ideas. Together we developed and refined the SSILD method more than 8 months ago. Today it is being actively practiced and improved upon by thousands of people.

*Common causes for loss of sleep*

Being unable to fall asleep easily after the cycles is a common problem encountered by inexperienced users of the SSILD technique, there are several possible causes: 

1. False Awakening. No I'm not kidding. What you are experiencing could well be an FA and this is very common after doing SSILD. You basically just lay there trying to fall asleep while you are already asleep. One way to work around this is to do additional repetitions when you find you are unable to sleep. Assuming you are in an FA, or sometimes a light trance, then the cycling technique will usually result in very apparent HIs, ringing sounds, vibrations, or other effects. When the effects occur you can simple do an RA, and then roll out of the bed to begin an OBE. 

2. You are focusing too much on producing the effects/sensations while doing the reps. Remember, WILD and OBE are by products of SSILD. They should not be sought after. When you do the cycles, do NOT expect anything will happen. You should focus on losing focus. That's the right way to do SSILD. 

3. Rational thoughts entering the mind while doing the cycles. It's fine to let your mind drift to other things, but you should NEVER analyize what you are doing! Oh, do NOT count either. You don't want precision! 

4. Deliberately trying to relax. Remember, SSILD is very much a self hypnosis tool, so you should rely on that to put you into sleep. Don't mix in any relaxation techniques befor or after! And certainly do not attempt to stay relaxed during the repetitions. You just get comfortable, and leave the relaxation part to the technique. 

5. Interruption. This is the single biggest killer. If you are repeatedly interrupted, whether by sudden noises, discomforts, or others, you should seize doing the exercise and go to sleep right away. You can always do it again later, so do not force it.

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## mcwillis

You make reference to a 'phase' experience.  I only know of one other well known practitioner that uses this term, Mr. Michael Raduga, and I believe he coined the term.  Is your method an extension of his discoveries please?

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## Indeed

Hm..

This is very interesting, and I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it. I can see how you don't understand how it works, though. There doesn't appear to be any direct connection to dreaming at all!

Very odd. I think I'll try it sometime.

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## mcwillis

Ive read over this again carefully and your instructions are very similar to Michael Raduga's, 'Indirect Techniques' from his book, 'School of Out of Body Travel'.

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## nina

I do this naturally. It's interesting that some people seem to need a guide, for what is instinctual in others.

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## rynkrt3

What's the average success rate on this technique?

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## CosmicIron

Not really... Robert Monroe, Frank Kepple, and many people also used that term long ago... and I happen to like the term in addition to lack of better terms  :smiley:

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## CosmicIron

> Ive read over this again carefully and your instructions are very similar to Michael Raduga's, 'Indirect Techniques' from his book, 'School of Out of Body Travel'.



This is an excerpt of my answer to a user in another forum. For those of you who are not familiar with Michael Raduga's work I'm providing a simple explanation here: Michael is a lead OBE expert and author of several popular related books. His method, which he calls "indirect technique", is very similar to SSILD in the way it also uses the concept of "cycling". To use his technique effectively one needs to develop the habit that upon awakening one should immediately remain completely still and attempt phase entrance using his cycling technique. Unlike SSILD, his technique includes a wide range of actions which you can cycle through in an a la carte fashion, such as squeezing the brain, wiggling the fingers, etc. Michael's technique, once mastered, can be very effective. His book offers a lot of insight, and I highly recommend it.


The SSILD method was initially based on my own customized WILD routine, which given years of practice has enabled me to WILD at will. It was almost identical to Michael's technique plus a few extras. In the beginning we simply wanted to create a streamlined version of this WILD routine, but several revisions later we came to a very important realization -- it simply works better if we DON'T treat it as a WILD technique! 

Before I get ahead of myself, lets look at Michael's method first. You were correct that the hardest part of that method is remembering to stay completely still upon awakening. In fact, if you finally manage to do this you hardly need any technique at all. Another problem is the method being very demanding on the proper mind/body condition at the time of the execution. Given the right condition, it is not impossible to have a successful WILD within minutes, even seconds! However, when the condition is not met, for example, when you are rather wide awake, the method will unlikely do you any good. You can try wiggle your fingers without using muscle but that will feel genuinely fake. You then move on to stare behind your eyelids but you will see nothing but blackness. You then try squeezing your brain but that simply feel weird... Let's face it, how are you supposed to squeeze your brain? Of course, all of these become very easy and real when you are in the phase or are on the edge of a phase, but the exercise itself is not really designed to move you toward the phase. In fact, the amount of concentration demanded by the exercise will often leave you wide awake! 

Now let's look at SSILD. Like Michael's technique, if you use SSILD when you are in the proper mind/body condition, the cycling procedures will very likely result in rapidS entry into the phase. However, since it is not a WILD technique, we don't care so much about producing immediate effect! Being able to WILD is a bonus, not a must. Thus, we do the cycling routines regardless of whether they cause any sensations to occur. Here we see a fundamental difference between the two methods -- where Michael's method requires focus, SSILD requires un-focus. With SSILD it is fair to say that the only thing you should focus on is how to quickly lose focus. You want to cycle tShrough the senses in the laziest manner. You want to lose count. You want to forget where you are. You want to drag this on and on... Essentially you just want to fall asleep so much you give up on doing the exercise, which is perfect. 

SSILD then works its magic after you fall asleep. You may suddenly wake up again, due to the motion caused by the cycling, and instead of awakening into reality you end up going into a phase because SSILD has already prepared your mind and body into the proper condition. If you combine SSILD with WBTB, then your chance of becoming aware within your dreams is greatly increased because the routine somehow is pretty good at messaging that little bit of awareness into your dreams...

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## CosmicIron

> Hm..
> 
> This is very interesting, and I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it. I can see how you don't understand how it works, though. There doesn't appear to be any direct connection to dreaming at all!
> 
> Very odd. I think I'll try it sometime.



LOL yeah we don't really know why it works... We can only guess.  After seeing the self-hypnosis technique from Betty Erickson, which bears a lot resemblance with SSILD, I began suspect it has something to do with self hypnosis.

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## CosmicIron

I don't have an accurate statistic but based on the reports we'ver gathered, the success rate is at least 50% if not higher.  One thing we do know is that once you get a hang of this it produces consistent results.  On the Chinese forum I worked with a smaller group of people, approximately 50, very closely, interacting with them on a daily basis.  Five of them learnt to be able to succeed on a daily basis.  They were complete amateurs with no prior experience with lucid dreaming.  The average time for them to achieve this consistent result is about two months.  Aside from these five people, all other members have experienced success, mostly within the first week, and they can average at least one or two LD/OBEs per week.  The technique was first released on that forum in August last year.  To date we have collected hundreds of detailed report on success.

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## rynkrt3

This sounds really interesting.  So, I get up with an alarm after around 5 hours of sleep, cycle through the senses and try to fall asleep, is that about it?

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## CosmicIron

> This sounds really interesting.  So, I get up with an alarm after around 5 hours of sleep, cycle through the senses and try to fall asleep, is that about it?



Yes that's all. You might want to stay awake for 5-10 minutes after the alarm.  If you do the cycles correctly you should have no problem falling asleep because they are hypnosis methods that can help put you into a trance.  However if you find it hard to fall asleep aftward then you may not be doing the technqiues correctly.  I just modified the original post to include the common causes for loss of sleep. Please make sure you read them. Good luck!

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## Ibis

This seems interesting. I think I'll try  :smiley:  ,,

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## mcwillis

Firstly, in my second post, post #4, I should have said, 'Direct Techniques' as they are vastly different in the way that they are executed compared to the 'Indirect' ones.

Secondly I have another comment:





> 1. The best time to practice is after 4 or 5 hours of sleep. You could also combine the practice with WBTB for maximum effect but it is not required.



I don't want to come across as being critical or pedantic but this is WBTB by definition and the instructions could be confusing to some.

This is an excellent guide because the experimental results have proven its worth.  It contradicts Michael Raduga's instructions for performing these techniques prior to WBTB sleep.  I am far too busy to use WBTB but when I do have a morning off I will follow your instructions exactly to see how eficacious the method is.

I would also highly recommend anyone who wants to use this to record prompts with 15 second intervals and practice the method.  It is very surprising how hard it is to judge how long 15 seconds really is.  I am sure this practice will really help with actually performing the method.  Just throwing in my two pence  :Cheeky:

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## nina

Waking up and laying completely still, that's called a DEILD, and it takes no special skills. No need to overcomplicate things.

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## mcwillis

> Waking up and laying completely still, that's called a DEILD, and it takes no special skills. No need to overcomplicate things.



I see what you are saying.  However, the instructions were originally vague to me, perhaps Im just a little stupid or slow.  I know what a DEILD is and I wasn't overcomplicating things, just pointing out an observation I had made in the instructions, that's all.

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## Sydney

So, there is a way that this technique could help you to WILD?
But it's not exactly a WILD technique?
So to achieve a WILD with this tech, do you just keep doing the repetitions over again?
I'm kind of unsure.  :smiley:

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## nina

> I see what you are saying.  However, the instructions were originally vague to me, perhaps Im just a little stupid or slow.  I know what a DEILD is and I wasn't overcomplicating things, just pointing out an observation I had made in the instructions, that's all.



I was replying to the OP not you. I don't think you mentioned anything about DEILDing.

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## mcwillis

> However, when the condition is not met, for example, when you are rather wide awake, the method will unlikely do you any good.



Mr. Raduga says that this is a common misconception that people have that being too awake is going to reduce ones chances.  From years of seminar research and results the level of 'wakefulness' that one has is irrelevant to a successful phase entrance.





> You can try wiggle your fingers without using muscle but that will feel genuinely fake. You then move on to stare behind your eyelids but you will see nothing but blackness. You then try squeezing your brain but that simply feel weird... Let's face it, how are you supposed to squeeze your brain? Of course, all of these become very easy and real when you are in the phase or are on the edge of a phase, but the exercise itself is not really designed to move you toward the phase. In fact, the amount of concentration demanded by the exercise will often leave you wide awake!



The most recent research of Mr. Raduga is that phantom wiggling, swimming technique, rotation and imaging rubbing hands in front of one's face are the most effective indirect techniques.  We often are in the 'phase' state immediately upon waking.  I have many times awoken, keeping completely still, and immediately just left my physical body by getting up like I would do with my physical body.  If this doesn't happen then 'Indirect Techniques' are then necessary to move one towards the phase state.

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## mcwillis

> I was replying to the OP not you. I don't think you mentioned anything about DEILDing.



 ::doh::

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## mcwillis

> So, there is a way that this technique could help you to WILD?
> But it's not exactly a WILD technique?
> So to achieve a WILD with this tech, do you just keep doing the repetitions over again?
> I'm kind of unsure.



When you practice the instructions you may enter a lucid dream or an OBE before going back to sleep or you may enter a lucid dream or OBE when you have gone back to sleep.  It is a WILD though many would argue that this is a DEILD method, another form of WILD.  As CosmicIron says repeat the procedure 4 or 5 times.

EDIT: Sorry for multi-posting, its late and Im tired.

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## MysticalSophie

A very interesting method.
As you said, it doesn't hurt to try, so I think I'll do that =)
However, i'm a bit insecure about OBE. Although I understand the concept, it's still feel a bit weird. I never had one so maybe that's why I feel a bit unconfortable to imagine me having an OBE.

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## mcwillis

> A very interesting method.
> As you said, it doesn't hurt to try, so I think I'll do that =)
> However, i'm a bit insecure about OBE. Although I understand the concept, it's still feel a bit weird. I never had one so maybe that's why I feel a bit unconfortable to imagine me having an OBE.



As I pointed out earlier getting up out of my body seems just as normal as getting up out of my bed in my physical body  :smiley:

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## MysticalSophie

I see...
Well, now that I have read more about OBE I'm seriously thinking that a old LD of mine could be something similar to an OBE.
It was after some hours of sleep, I woke up from my bed, and I was in my house (I could visit any part of the house just like in real life.) I could fly, but it was more like swimming on the air. However, I didn't feel any spiritual sensation or something, so maybe it was more a realistic LD. x)

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## nina

> Mr. Raduga says that this is a common misconception that people have that being too awake is going to reduce ones chances.  From years of seminar research and results the level of 'wakefulness' that one has is irrelevant to a successful phase entrance.



I'm not familiar with this particular terminology or what is meant by "phase entrance", I'm assuming it's just a transitional stage of WILD? However I definitely to not believe that it is a misconception that it is more difficult to induce a WILD when one is more awake. Wakefulness is definitely not irrelevant. On the contrary, a successful WILD involves a pretty narrow margin of awareness in that you should not be too awake or too sleepy during the transition if you are to succeed. But I may be misunderstanding your point, if so, please clarify.

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## mcwillis

> I'm not familiar with this particular terminology or what is meant by "phase entrance", I'm assuming it's just a transitional stage of WILD? However I definitely to not believe that it is a misconception that it is more difficult to induce a WILD when one is more awake. Wakefulness is definitely not irrelevant. On the contrary, a successful WILD involves a pretty narrow margin of awareness in that you should not be too awake or too sleepy during the transition if you are to succeed. But I may be misunderstanding your point, if so, please clarify.



'Phase' simply means the phenomenon of lucid dreaming or the out of body experience.

The techniques CosmicIron is referring to are the 'Indirect Techniques' which are to be performed immediately upon waking from sleep.  The proper protocol for Michael Raduga's method that CosmicIron was referring to when replying to my post is this:

1:  Sleep approximately uninterrupted for six hours, wake up and stay awake for at least a few minutes.  Go back to sleep, i.e. WBTB

2:  Over the next 2-4 hours one will naturally awaken several times.  Attempt to separate from the body the moment one realises one is awake.  Spend no more than 5 seconds on attempting to separate.  Remaining still upon awakening is the ideal but not obligatory.

3:  If no separation occurs cycles of 'Indirect Techniques' are to be applied.  Many students wake up feeling wide awake and assume that because they are wide awake attempting to enter a lucid dream or exit the body through 'Indirect Techniques' would be a waste of time.  Mr. Raduga says that this assumption is incorrect as cycles of the techniques are still highly effective regardless of how 'awake' one feels.

Hope this explains.

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## nina

> 1:  Sleep approximately uninterrupted for six hours



I'd be ecstatic if I could sleep uninterrupted for _3_ hours these days. 





> Hope this explains.



It does, thank you.

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## mcwillis

> I'd be ecstatic if I could sleep uninterrupted for _3_ hours these days.



Try this, it really works

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## CosmicIron

> Waking up and laying completely still, that's called a DEILD, and it takes no special skills. No need to overcomplicate things.



Let me clarify, SSILD does not require you to wake up and lay completely still.  In fact if you do that you change the technique to something else and result may vary.  SSILD works best when combined with WBTB after 4-6 hours of quality sleep.  During the exercise one should feel as comfortable as possible, so if staying still makes one uncomfortable then slight movement is permitted such as scratching, rolling, etc.

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## CosmicIron

> A very interesting method.
> As you said, it doesn't hurt to try, so I think I'll do that =)
> However, i'm a bit insecure about OBE. Although I understand the concept, it's still feel a bit weird. I never had one so maybe that's why I feel a bit unconfortable to imagine me having an OBE.



OBE becomes very common as you journey down the road of lucid dreaming.  It is nothing to be afraid of.  Although it is largely in debate, my personal experience tells me they are not much different from a lucid dream.  There are differences for sure, but they are certainly not "soul travel" or "soul being detached from the body".  In fact, once you have extensive experience with higher state of consciousness through lucid dreaming, you may eventually begin questioning the very concept of "souls."

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## CosmicIron

> When you practice the instructions you may enter a lucid dream or an OBE before going back to sleep or you may enter a lucid dream or OBE when you have gone back to sleep.  It is a WILD though many would argue that this is a DEILD method, another form of WILD.  As CosmicIron says repeat the procedure 4 or 5 times.
> 
> EDIT: Sorry for multi-posting, its late and Im tired.



If one practices each of the 3 steps (see, listen, and feel) with aggression -- intending to produce immediate sensations, then it becomes a WILD method.  I usually discourage new users from doing this as it can cause unexpected side effects and sometimes make the technique less useful.  However, more experienced users know how to adjust the level of aggression to suit their conditions, and will provide excellent results.  Below is a very unique experience recorded by one of the users in another forum.  He used the technique for active phase entrance:

I just finished a Phase session where I used your cycling technique. In about 5 minutes I felt my physical focus waning. Then the strangest thing happened. I was was doing step 3 (which is to notice any strange body sensations) and all of a sudden I had a full vision of my body. It was dark in the area and I was kind of like outlined in white energy. Then something that looked like a "pac-man" head started to gobble my toes and work it's way up my leg, it did the same to the other leg and kept going higher. Piece by piece my physical body was being devoured. There was no pain or gore, since my body was just an outline. The sensation was incredible, the next thing I know my entire body is gone and I am in a land with the most vivid scenery and colors I have been too yet. The sensations of watching my body disappearing and then leaving me as just "total 100% conscious energy" was the most exhilarating I have ever had. The mental picture of this really drove that point home.

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## CosmicIron

> Mr. Raduga says that this is a common misconception that people have that being too awake is going to reduce ones chances.  From years of seminar research and results the level of 'wakefulness' that one has is irrelevant to a successful phase entrance.
> 
> 
> 
> The most recent research of Mr. Raduga is that phantom wiggling, swimming technique, rotation and imaging rubbing hands in front of one's face are the most effective indirect techniques.  We often are in the 'phase' state immediately upon waking.  I have many times awoken, keeping completely still, and immediately just left my physical body by getting up like I would do with my physical body.  If this doesn't happen then 'Indirect Techniques' are then necessary to move one towards the phase state.



IMO, while wakefulness is irrelevant, successful phase entrance does require the user to be able to shift from being fully awake to a state that boarder between wakefulness and sleep.  In order to do so, one needs to either quickly fall asleep, or focus on deepening the state through more active relaxation and hypnosis methods. While this is not impossible to do, it is definitely difficult for new users, and that's the very reason Mr. Raduga discourages using Direct Method as the primary mean to achieve phase entrance.  SSILD was designed with beginners in mind.  One can definitely use the technique ACTIVELY, and given enough repetition one can enter a trance from being fully awake (after all, it is very similar to Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis).  However, that requires determination and skill often lacked by beginners.

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## CosmicIron

> I don't want to come across as being critical or pedantic but this is WBTB by definition and the instructions could be confusing to some.



Good point mcwillis  :smiley:  Now I re-read my post it was indeed confusing. LOL

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## Sydney

Oh my gosh. This technique is amazing!
So last night, I woke up after 5 hours of sleep, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. I did about, 5 cycles (If I remember correctly.) Then I got comfortable and did one cycle for some reason. After a few minutes I turned over once more (now on my stomach) and fell asleep.

I woke up.. and my body was completely paralyzed! I could not move. I think I could open my eyes, but I didn't want to! I got really scared. I heard these weird wind sounds in my ears or something, and my body just felt heavy and numb (it was a bit hazy at this part, can't remember much). I just decided, "What the heck, I'm getting out of this!" (I've done this before, and I ended up in a FA) So I tried wriggling my head, then my arms, then my fingers, and finally "broke" out of SP. I lay motionless , still lying on my stomach in my bed. Then I thought to myself, "Crap. I shouldn't have done that." But then I RCed out of reflex, and what do you know, I was in an FA! I got really excited. Still laying on my stomach, I used my arms and "pushed" me out of bed. It was extremely hard to do this. It was like pushing a rusted lever or something (kind of like I was "stuck" to the bed). Then I saw it was dark in my room so I got scared once more (I'm always afraid of seeing scary things in my dreams, like weird shadows and such).

So eventually after my adventure filled lucid dream (it was pretty vivid at the start, then I kind of lost lucidity at the end), I woke up. I remember going throughout the morning, kind of sad that I didn't have any more time to use the technique in the night, because of school. Then it faded. I woke up in my bed.

I guess I missed my opportunity for another lucid dream. Tricky tricky false awakenings  :smiley: 

I looked at my clock and, all of that happened in less than 2 hours! How awesome is that!
Definetly trying this again tonight!  :smiley: 

Oh yeah, and what could that be classified as? DEILD? FA? Not sure. (it's for putting it in my sig  :smiley: )

(Sorry for the long post...)

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## CosmicIron

> Oh my gosh. This technique is amazing!
> So last night, I woke up after 5 hours of sleep, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. I did about, 5 cycles (If I remember correctly.) Then I got comfortable and did one cycle for some reason. After a few minutes I turned over once more (now on my stomach) and fell asleep.
> 
> I woke up.. and my body was completely paralyzed! I could not move. I think I could open my eyes, but I didn't want to! I got really scared. I heard these weird wind sounds in my ears or something, and my body just felt heavy and numb (it was a bit hazy at this part, can't remember much). I just decided, "What the heck, I'm getting out of this!" (I've done this before, and I ended up in a FA) So I tried wriggling my head, then my arms, then my fingers, and finally "broke" out of SP. I lay motionless , still lying on my stomach in my bed. Then I thought to myself, "Crap. I shouldn't have done that." But then I RCed out of reflex, and what do you know, I was in an FA! I got really excited. Still laying on my stomach, I used my arms and "pushed" me out of bed. It was extremely hard to do this. It was like pushing a rusted lever or something (kind of like I was "stuck" to the bed). Then I saw it was dark in my room so I got scared once more (I'm always afraid of seeing scary things in my dreams, like weird shadows and such).
> 
> So eventually after my adventure filled lucid dream (it was pretty vivid at the start, then I kind of lost lucidity at the end), I woke up. I remember going throughout the morning, kind of sad that I didn't have any more time to use the technique in the night, because of school. Then it faded. I woke up in my bed.
> 
> I guess I missed my opportunity for another lucid dream. Tricky tricky false awakenings 
> 
> ...



Glad it worked for you!  :smiley:   Yes, SSILD is very good at producing FAs!  As for classification, I like to call it a hybrid of WILD and DILD, or maybe self-hypnosis... who knows, LOL.  BTW, next time you find yourself stuck during an OBE, don't force it.  Start by rubbing your hands, and then imagine yourself spinning.  Once you start spinning you can get up easily.  If the room appears dark, you can try shouting "Lights up!" Or flipping light switches can also produce excellent results. Sometimes the room may not light up, but flip it a few times then something will definitely lit -- for example, the outdoors might turn to day light, street lamps might get turned on, stars may shine...

----------


## Fuzzman

Cool technique I think I'll try it tomorrow during a WBTB. One question though, why is it SSILD, shouldn't it just be SILD? or is there already a technique called SILD that I don't know about?


EDIT: nevermind I did a search and found SILD (song initiated) so I guess that's why you did the double S's

----------


## Taffy

Wait... I don't want to do an OBE, especially not by accident... Should I still use this? Could it be used only for inducing lucid dreams (through FAs I guess)?

----------


## Chetan

Quote from Mr Radugas book "A practical Guide book"
Pg No 16 

"Dream consciousness is also considered to be a phase
experience. If you suddenly realize that you're dreaming while
asleep, then that's already the phase. You should therefore
proceed to implement your plan of action and stabilize the
state. If dream consciousness does arise, it would be a side
effect of doing technique cycles upon awakenings. This side
effect is quite common - always be ready for"


This is what SILD is about.

----------


## Sydney

Yeah, I don't really want an OBE either. Is there a difference? (For me, I thought an OBE was a more vivid, realistic kind of consciousness-thingy...)

----------


## CosmicIron

> Wait... I don't want to do an OBE, especially not by accident... Should I still use this? Could it be used only for inducing lucid dreams (through FAs I guess)?



If you absolutely don't want OBE, then you should do the cycles in the most relaxed, dumbest manner -- not thinking or expecting anything to happen during these steps. This is in fact the most correct way to use the technique. When you do it in this manner, the techniques will help put you into a trance-like state, then you fall asleep from there.

----------


## Chetan

They say in an obe there is silver chord attached to your dream body.

----------


## Sydney

> They say in an obe there is silver chord attached to your dream body.



That sounds creepy lol.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Quote from Mr Radugas book "A practical Guide book"
> Pg No 16 
> 
> "Dream consciousness is also considered to be a phase
> experience. If you suddenly realize that you're dreaming while
> asleep, then that's already the phase. You should therefore
> proceed to implement your plan of action and stabilize the
> state. If dream consciousness does arise, it would be a side
> effect of doing technique cycles upon awakenings. This side
> ...



Please see my previous post regarding the subtle differences between SSILD and Michael's technique.  They are similar but there are distinct differences between the two methods, especially in the way these cycles should be performed.  I'd rather say SSILD is more closely related to Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis technique.

----------


## Sydney

> If you absolutely don't want OBE, then you should do the cycles in the most relaxed, dumbest manner -- not thinking or expecting anything to happen during these steps. This is in fact the most correct way to use the technique. When you do it in this manner, the techniques will help put you into a trance-like state, then you fall asleep from there.



Ok, so will we still get FAs with this? Or does this technique give us FAs no matter what?  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> They say in an obe there is silver chord attached to your dream body.



This is typically accepted as a fact by people who practice astral projections.  However, in an OBE or LD, you often see what you want to see, and your beliefs play a determining role on that.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Ok, so will we still get FAs with this? Or does this technique give us FAs no matter what?



FAs frequently happen after doing SSILD, but I wouldn't guarantee it.  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Okay, thanks.  :smiley:

----------


## Taffy

> FAs frequently happen after doing SSILD, but I wouldn't guarantee it.



So... If I understand this correctly, we can use this (if we don't want OBEs) to more easily induce SP to use with WILD. Is that right?

----------


## CosmicIron

> Yeah, I don't really want an OBE either. Is there a difference? (For me, I thought an OBE was a more vivid, realistic kind of consciousness-thingy...)



Actually your previous experience could be classified as an OBE!  I always suspect people who say OBEs are more realistic are just bluffing.  Yes, OBEs can be realistic, but so does LDs.  OBEs can also be totally unrealistic just like LDs -- for example, very often people start from their childhood houses instead of their current one... would you call that realistic?  Indeed some OBEs can occur during NREM, but those NREM-based OBEs are often very poor in quality, nothing realistic at all.  Often people equal OBEs with "experiencing reality without physical body", and IMO that is very misleading.

----------


## CosmicIron

> So... If I understand this correctly, we can use this (if we don't want OBEs) to more easily induce SP to use with WILD. Is that right?



If we use SSILD as a WILD method by doing the cycles more aggressively, then it is very likely to result in an OBE.  However, if we do it in a very lazy manner then usually nothing will happen during the exercise.  You will fall asleep afterward then become lucid in later dreams.

----------


## rynkrt3

From what I've been reading, the SSILD mainly produces FA's.  Is there a good way to catch these?

----------


## Taffy

> From what I've been reading, the SSILD mainly produces FA's.  Is there a good way to catch these?



Do RCs when you wake up, every time you wake up. This way if you "wake up" but you're still dreaming, you will do a RC.

----------


## Sydney

Oh okay - so OBE's are basically just like LD's?

Oh and, we can use this tech for DEILDs? I would have had one if I didn't break out of SP and enter an FA.

Sorry for all the questions >.<..

----------


## Fuzzman

> Oh okay - so OBE's are basically just like LD's?



I always liked this diagram from Michael Raduga's SOBT, it basically lumps all of these similar experiences into one category, Phase, which the OP mentions:
The Phase

----------


## yuppie11975

Cool, pretty original for a change  :smiley:

----------


## enak101

I'll try this technique for a while. Sounds pretty good.

Can I get some clarification for the difference between OBE and LD?

----------


## rynkrt3

Did a WBTB last night with this.

I did maybe 4-5 cycles then fell asleep really quick.

No results.  I'll try it again tonight.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Did a WBTB last night with this.
> 
> I did maybe 4-5 cycles then fell asleep really quick.
> 
> No results.  I'll try it again tonight.



If that's the case, you may want to be a bit more aggressive while doing the steps -- look more carefully behind your eyelids, search for patterns, colors, etc. Listen to sound and try to adjust the volume mentally; Imagine some kinetic sensations... be careful though, when you do this you may end up focusing too much which causes you to lose sleep. You need to experiment to find what's best for you  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> I'll try this technique for a while. Sounds pretty good.
> 
> Can I get some clarification for the difference between OBE and LD?



OBE, in a broad sense, describes the experience during which you seem to rise from your physical body and move about in a non-physical form.  There are many kinds of OBE though, and some people tend to recognize only a subset of these as the "genuine" OBE.  For example, some disregard "dreams of OBE" as real OBE.  This usually happens in combination with false awakenings -- you have an FA, then you perform some WILD technique within it.  Of course you will right away experience vibrations, HIs, and etc., and you then exit your body.  You believe you are having an OBE, but it's actually an OBE within a dream!  You are lunching yourself from a platform of fake realities, and as a result when you do wake up the whole experience will feel unreal.  In this case, it is not much different from a LD. 

Let's look at another example.  You experience SP while being fully awake, and then you manage to make the exit.  This, when it happens, will feel like genuine "soul leaving the body".  You may even see your physical body lying on the bed.  However, no matter how awake you are, the moment you make the exit, you step into a different reality.  It is very common for people to rise from a different location such as their old houses, school dormitories, or a room that's pieced together from the various places where they previous lived at.  Just like in a dream, the moment you step into this non-physical world your IQ is reduced by half, and thus you won't be able to recognize the anomalies.  You then go on with your adventure but when you wake up you will hardly remember much detail... again, just like a lucid dream.  Would you call this OBE or WILD?  There is hardly any real distinction.

Some people like to describe OBE with these attributes: environment almost identical with reality; sharp mind, clear as day-time and 100% functional; solid objects that are hard if not impossible to manipulate; no memory loss upon returning to physical body, etc.  In other word, they are describing "soul travel in reality or near-reality".  These kinds of experiences, IMO, are extremely rare and most people who report them are probably bluffing, at least to some degree.  I personally have had a few thousand OBEs, yet very few of them fit all the above descriptions (only exception being when I used special techniques, but that's a whole different matter).  In our forum, we have collected many thousands of OBE cases, and again not a single one fit all the descriptions, minus a few which are quite obviously from less credible sources. 

I know technically there are differences between some special-case OBEs and LD.  For example, some OBEs can occur during NREM.  However, the majority of OBEs are not much different from LDs.  You can essentially treat them as LDs which uses your bed as the starting point.  Let me make it clear -- what I'm saying here is based on my own experiences and researches.  They are my personal opinions only.

----------


## SarcasticIndeed

Yeah, I'm trying this today.

----------


## SarcasticIndeed

> Just like in a dream, the moment you step into this non-physical world your IQ is reduced by half, and thus you won't be able to recognize the anomalies.



Just curious... but, how did you get to this conclusion? I mean, you can't do IQ tests in LDs/OBEs. Besides, even an IQ of 50 would make one understand the obvious anomalies that occur during these stages. Isn't it your logic center of the brain which shuts down during sleep that makes you  unable to understand things are weird?

----------


## mcwillis

> Let me clarify, SSILD does not require you to wake up and lay completely still.  In fact if you do that you change the technique to something else and result may vary.



This is an added bonus that one doesn't need to remain still upon awakening.





> SSILD works best when combined with WBTB after 4-6 hours of quality sleep.



Just to clarify, do the 4 or 5 cycles of steps 2a, 2b and 2c need to be performed immediately upon awakening? Or can one get up after 6 hours; visit the bathroom; go back to bed and then do the cycles of steps 2a, 2b, 2c?  Even though your method has its own merits and does vary from Mr. Raduga's methods, he does say that for his method not to use an alarm clock to generate an awakening.  As this point isn't included in your guide I am assuming that some of your students probably have and I was wondering if you have noticed the effect of this on the experimental results on the other forum?





> Originally Posted by mcwillis
> 
> 
> When you practice the instructions you may enter a lucid dream or an OBE before going back to sleep or you may enter a lucid dream or OBE when you have gone back to sleep.  It is a WILD though many would argue that this is a DEILD method, another form of WILD.  As CosmicIron says repeat the procedure 4 or 5 times.
> 
> 
> 
> If one practices each of the 3 steps (see, listen, and feel) with aggression -- intending to produce immediate sensations, then it becomes a WILD method.  I usually discourage new users from doing this as it can cause unexpected side effects and sometimes make the technique less useful.  However, more experienced users know how to adjust the level of aggression to suit their conditions, and will provide excellent results.



Another reason for my questions above as I am finding it hard to truly understand your instrctions.  Sorry if I gave incorrect advice to another member due to my misunderstanding of your method.





> Originally Posted by mcwillis
> 
> 
> Mr. Raduga says that this is a common misconception that people have that being too awake is going to reduce ones chances.  From years of seminar research and results the level of 'wakefulness' that one has is irrelevant to a successful phase entrance.
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, while wakefulness is irrelevant, successful phase entrance does require the user to be able to shift from being fully awake to a state that boarder between wakefulness and sleep.  In order to do so, one needs to either quickly fall asleep, or focus on deepening the state through more active relaxation and hypnosis methods. While this is not impossible to do, it is definitely difficult for new users, and that's the very reason Mr. Raduga discourages using Direct Method as the primary mean to achieve phase entrance.  SSILD was designed with beginners in mind.  One can definitely use the technique ACTIVELY, and given enough repetition one can enter a trance from being fully awake (after all, it is very similar to Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis).  However, that requires determination and skill often lacked by beginners.



Are you saying that when one reaches the fourth or fifth cycle of steps 2a, 2b and 2c it is very important that one is on the verge of falling asleep as described in step 3.  I am asking these questions because with my experience of success with Mr. Raduga's methods attention to detail is very important to a successful outcome.





> Oh my gosh. This technique is amazing!
> So last night, I woke up after 5 hours of sleep, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. I did about, 5 cycles (If I remember correctly.) Then I got comfortable and did one cycle for some reason. After a few minutes I turned over once more (now on my stomach) and fell asleep.
> 
> I woke up.. and my body was completely paralyzed! I could not move. I think I could open my eyes, but I didn't want to! I got really scared. I heard these weird wind sounds in my ears or something, and my body just felt heavy and numb (it was a bit hazy at this part, can't remember much). I just decided, "What the heck, I'm getting out of this!" (I've done this before, and I ended up in a FA) So I tried wriggling my head, then my arms, then my fingers, and finally "broke" out of SP. I lay motionless , still lying on my stomach in my bed. Then I thought to myself, "Crap. I shouldn't have done that." But then I RCed out of reflex, and what do you know, I was in an FA! I got really excited. Still laying on my stomach, I used my arms and "pushed" me out of bed. It was extremely hard to do this. It was like pushing a rusted lever or something (kind of like I was "stuck" to the bed). Then I saw it was dark in my room so I got scared once more (I'm always afraid of seeing scary things in my dreams, like weird shadows and such).
> 
> So eventually after my adventure filled lucid dream (it was pretty vivid at the start, then I kind of lost lucidity at the end), I woke up. I remember going throughout the morning, kind of sad that I didn't have any more time to use the technique in the night, because of school. Then it faded. I woke up in my bed.
> 
> I guess I missed my opportunity for another lucid dream. Tricky tricky false awakenings 
> 
> ...



Interesting result  :smiley: 





> Cool technique I think I'll try it tomorrow during a WBTB. One question though, why is it SSILD, shouldn't it just be SILD? or is there already a technique called SILD that I don't know about?
> 
> 
> EDIT: nevermind I did a search and found SILD (song initiated) so I guess that's why you did the double S's



And there is http://www.dreamviews.com/f49/sild-s...-dream-127336/





> Quote from Mr Radugas book "A practical Guide book" Pg No 16 
> 
> "Dream consciousness is also considered to be a phase
> experience. If you suddenly realize that you're dreaming while
> asleep, then that's already the phase. You should therefore
> proceed to implement your plan of action and stabilize the
> state. If dream consciousness does arise, it would be a side
> effect of doing technique cycles upon awakenings. This side
> effect is quite common - always be ready for"
> ...



I would tend to disagree with this. As you say, when one starts to have regular success at practicing 'Indirect Techniques' one begins to have more DILD's as a result.  But it seemss as though CosmicIron's method generates DILD's a lot more quickly.  I may be wrong about this and is just my opinion.

---

And to finish up I would like to add that CosmicIron's method is a mixture of Michael Raduga's 'Indirect' and 'Direct' techniques with one major difference.  In either of Raduga's methods one is attempting to have a LD or OBE from a waking state whereas CosmicIron's technique is setting up the conditions to have a phase experience at a later point in time when practice of his method has elapsed.  From reading this thread a passive practice will lead to a lucid dream and an aggressive practice will lead to either a WILD or perhaps DILD whilst asleep.  Please correct me if I am wrong CosmicIron  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> Just curious... but, how did you get to this conclusion? I mean, you can't do IQ tests in LDs/OBEs. Besides, even an IQ of 50 would make one understand the obvious anomalies that occur during these stages. Isn't it your logic center of the brain which shuts down during sleep that makes you  unable to understand things are weird?



My bad... that was really just intended as an expression, not a precise statement.  I was describing the phenomenon which upon entering an OBE, one loses a lot of her reasoning, logic, analytical, and other abilities.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Just to clarify, do the 4 or 5 cycles of steps 2a, 2b and 2c need to be performed immediately upon awakening? Or can one get up after 6 hours; visit the bathroom; go back to bed and then do the cycles of steps 2a, 2b, 2c?  Even though your method has its own merits and does vary from Mr. Raduga's methods, he does say that for his method not to use an alarm clock to generate an awakening.  As this point isn't included in your guide I am assuming that some of your students probably have and I was wondering if you have noticed the effect of this on the experimental results on the other forum?



No mcwillis, there is no need for them to be performed immediately. What you described -- getting after 6 hours etc is the optimal way prepare for doing SSILD.  Many students do use alarm clocks and in fact I also urge them to do so in the begining.  By understanding how sleep cycles work and being able to monitor and calculate one's own unique sleep pattern will likely increase success.





> Are you saying that when one reaches the fourth or fifth cycle of steps 2a, 2b and 2c it is very important that one is on the verge of falling asleep as described in step 3. I am asking these questions because with my experience of success with Mr. Raduga's methods attention to detail is very important to a successful outcome.



Yes that's correct.  If fact it may work even better if you completely skip step 3 and fall asleep automatically after performing the cyclings.  In Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis method you are supposed to enter a trance while performing the technique, then automatically exit from it after certain ellapsed time which were determined prior to entering the trance.  I suspect SSILD has a lot in common with that. 





> And to finish up I would like to add that CosmicIron's method is a mixture of Michael Raduga's 'Indirect' and 'Direct' techniques with one major difference. In either of Raduga's methods one is attempting to have a LD or OBE from a waking state whereas CosmicIron's technique is setting up the conditions to have a phase experience at a later point in time when practice of his method has elapsed.



Thank you.  Your observation is correct and precise.

----------


## Chetan

> I would tend to disagree with this. As you say, when one starts to have regular success at practicing 'Indirect Techniques' one begins to have more DILD's as a result.  But it seemss as though CosmicIron's method generates DILD's a lot more quickly.  I may be wrong about this and is just my opinion.



Michael Raduga says that after practising cycles of indirect techniques regularly, every 3rd phase experience occurs through dream conciousness.

----------


## Sydney

So in order to fall asleep while doing the cycles, we just do them really lazily?
Because, 5 or so cycles is about 6 - 8 minutes for me, and it takes me longer to fall asleep in general.
Should we just keep doing the cycles until we fall asleep? Or will that keep us awake?

Oh and by the way, no results last night. I think it was because I couldn't sleep.. my air conditioner was broken lol.

----------


## Barry

Seem's like a very simple technique, and that's why I like it!  :smiley: 

Will try this tonight and post my results.

----------


## SarcasticIndeed

> My bad... that was really just intended as an expression, not a precise statement.  I was describing the phenomenon which upon entering an OBE, one loses a lot of her reasoning, logic, analytical, and other abilities.



Ah, okay. I was just curious  :tongue2:  Besides, I tried this today but there was a lot of noise around, so I couldn't. Perhaps the light was too strong as well. Gonna try this today, I guess.

----------


## CosmicIron

> So in order to fall asleep while doing the cycles, we just do them really lazily?
> Because, 5 or so cycles is about 6 - 8 minutes for me, and it takes me longer to fall asleep in general.
> Should we just keep doing the cycles until we fall asleep? Or will that keep us awake?
> 
> Oh and by the way, no results last night. I think it was because I couldn't sleep.. my air conditioner was broken lol.



Sometimes during the cycling your mind begins to wander, and it may take a while before you realize it and resume the exercise.  When this happens you know you are doing it correctly.  If you can continue doing it in this manner, then you can indeed keep performing the technique until you fall asleep.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Ah, okay. I was just curious  Besides, I tried this today but there was a lot of noise around, so I couldn't. Perhaps the light was too strong as well. Gonna try this today, I guess.



 Quiet and dark environment is essential!

----------


## Sydney

Alright then  :smiley:  I'll try and see if I can fall asleep whilst doing the cycles tonight.

----------


## SarcasticIndeed

> Quiet and dark environment is essential!



Yeah, I know  :tongue2:

----------


## mcwillis

> Michael Raduga says that after practising cycles of indirect techniques regularly, every 3rd phase experience occurs through dream conciousness.



I am aware of this but as I tried to point out to you CosmicIron's method could bring LD's from the outset rather than as a side effect of having OBE's.

----------


## GibsoNorth

Tried this 2 nights ago at a WTBT. Got my first lucid! Tried yesterday also and had a super vivid dream but not lucid. Seems very promising  :smiley:

----------


## mcwillis

> Tried this 2 nights ago at a WTBT. Got my first lucid! Tried yesterday also and had a super vivid dream but not lucid. Seems very promising



Awesome  :smiley:

----------


## DinoSawr

Sounds very interesting! It seems to me like you are sort of keeping your mind's dream senses awake in some sense and that could cause one to be more aware during a dream or when entering one. Kind of like a MILD, except using senses?

What do you think? Could that be what it does?

----------


## mcwillis

> Sounds very interesting! It seems to me like you are sort of keeping your mind's dream senses awake in some sense and that could cause one to be more aware during a dream or when entering one. Kind of like a MILD, except using senses?
> 
> What do you think? Could that be what it does?



It can't be a MILD method as there isn't a mnemonic, hence why it is called SSILD  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Ah, no luck last night. Kept tossing and turning and forgetting to do the technique.

----------


## yuppie11975

How dare you abandon my method ;O
Kidding  :wink2:

----------


## SpaceCowboyDave

I did it last night and got a short lucid!  I will definitely be trying again tonight.

----------


## mcwillis

> I did it last night and got a short lucid!  I will definitely be trying again tonight.



 :woohoo:

----------


## Sydney

> How dare you abandon my method ;O
> Kidding



Haha I'm sorry Yuppie! I'm trying out some new techniques just to see what I can get  :smiley:

----------


## hamza

I tried it three time and i got two LDs BUT they are very short i just snap into my real body after 1-2 minutes.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I tried it three time and i got two LDs BUT they are very short i just snap into my real body after 1-2 minutes.



The technique does not determine the length or quality of the LDs.  Upon entering LD, you should immediately perform stabilization techniques such as:

- Crawl on floor
- Observe and touch objects
- Switching on lights
- Shout "More lucidity now!"

Also you should resist talking to yourself and paying attention to your physical body.  Setting up small and immediate goals constantly is also key to prolonging the dream.

----------


## mcwillis

I thought this would be a good method.  Some great results coming back in a short space of time  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Gosh darn it!  :smiley:  Last night I just kept forgetting the technique! It was weird because I woke up at 2:30, being an idiot I turned my lamp on and layed there, like I was getting some more rest because I thought it was time to get up for the day.

Haha but anyway I got as far as the hearing part of the cycle and my mind totally wandered and I fell asleep.
Any tips on how I can stay focused?

----------


## Taffy

I wanted to try the technique but I had to get up this morning... So badly wanted to stay in bed and try it since it seems to be working for everyone.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Gosh darn it!  Last night I just kept forgetting the technique! It was weird because I woke up at 2:30, being an idiot I turned my lamp on and layed there, like I was getting some more rest because I thought it was time to get up for the day.
> 
> Haha but anyway I got as far as the hearing part of the cycle and my mind totally wandered and I fell asleep.
> Any tips on how I can stay focused?



First off, no need to stay focused.  Like I always said, the only thing you want to focus at is "how to lose focus".  The technique is meant to put you into a trance like state after all.  Another thing about your practice is you may not be getting enough sleep prior to doing the exercise.  Try to sleep for 5 or 6 hours first then get out of the bed for 5-10 minutes.  You don't want to do SSILD while being very drowsy.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I wanted to try the technique but I had to get up this morning... So badly wanted to stay in bed and try it since it seems to be working for everyone.



 Don't rush it.  I suggest you do this only when you have a lot of leisure time.  Weekend is usually better.

----------


## Fausto

So to do this, you go to sleep, and wake up 5-6 hours later. But do you just gain awareness and not move, or actually get of bed, go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, etc, and then return to bed and apply the three techniques?

----------


## Sydney

Okay, makes more sense. I was just waking up at 5 hours of sleep (since that was how much i slept when I succeeded the first time), and only going to the bathroom then laying down. I'll sleep just a bit longer this time and stay up a bit longer too to see if I get different results.  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> So to do this, you go to sleep, and wake up 5-6 hours later. But do you just gain awareness and not move, or actually get of bed, go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, etc, and then return to bed and apply the three techniques?



 Getting out of bed might work better, but it's different for everyone so you'd have to experiment  :smiley:

----------


## Barry

Tried it, didn't work.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Tried it, didn't work.



You might want to give more detail on how you did it so I can help you.

----------


## Fausto

I attempted it last night, but unfortunately didn't have a LD. I went to sleep at 12 00 woke up at around 4 am went back to sleep until around 5 30. I woke up, rolled onto my side, and attempted stimulating the senses by using the three techniques that were described in the original post. I didn't see any images/colors, heard nothing, and felt nothing strange happen with my body parts, and once I was done all four sets, it took me some time to get back to sleep. I did wake up a couple hours later, and did a RC, but I found out I was actually awake.

----------


## Barry

> You might want to give more detail on how you did it so I can help you.



I woke up at about 4am, after going to sleep at 11ish. I closed my eyes, and tried to see colours, but all I could see was blackness - but you said this was fine, right? and then tried to hear a noise through my ears - I could hear a buzzing noise. I tried to see if my body felt different, it felt normal really. I tried the senses 4 times and got the same results.

----------


## Sydney

> I woke up at about 4am, after going to sleep at 11ish. I closed my eyes, and tried to see colours, but all I could see was blackness - but you said this was fine, right? and then tried to hear a noise through my ears - I could hear a buzzing noise. I tried to see if my body felt different, it felt normal really. I tried the senses 4 times and got the same results.



That's ok  :smiley:  Remember, there's always another night.

----------


## enak101

How do you think this will work with polyphasic sleep? I have three ninety minute naps so WBTB doesn't really work but I don't know how quickly into it I go REM. Would be nice to have a zeo.

----------


## rynkrt3

been trying this for like 4 days now with no results  :Sad:

----------


## CosmicIron

> I attempted it last night, but unfortunately didn't have a LD. I went to sleep at 12 00 woke up at around 4 am went back to sleep until around 5 30. I woke up, rolled onto my side, and attempted stimulating the senses by using the three techniques that were described in the original post. I didn't see any images/colors, heard nothing, and felt nothing strange happen with my body parts, and once I was done all four sets, it took me some time to get back to sleep. I did wake up a couple hours later, and did a RC, but I found out I was actually awake.



I see several areas where things probably went wrong:

1. After you wake up, you might want to get out of your bed and stay awake for at least 5 minutes.
2. Do you usually sleep on your side?  If that's the case, you might want to lay flat while doing the exercise.
3. Do not attempt to actually see, hear, and feel things.  If you attempt too hard, then you may not be able to get into the trance and may even lose sleep afterwards.  Whenever you feel you have a hard time to fall asleep after doing the exercise, it means you weren't doing the cycling part correctly.  The idea of the cycling is to help put you into a trance.  Your mind should wander during the exercise.  Time should fly without you noticing it.  Moments of unconsciousness should occur in between the cycles....  These are signs that you are doing it correctly.

----------


## CosmicIron

> been trying this for like 4 days now with no results



Please take a look at my above reply to Fausto.  See if it also applies to you.  If not, please give me details on how you did the exercise so I can help.

----------


## CosmicIron

> How do you think this will work with polyphasic sleep? I have three ninety minute naps so WBTB doesn't really work but I don't know how quickly into it I go REM. Would be nice to have a zeo.



This works very well with naps.  Some of the guys are high-school students on our forum and they even manage to OBE with SSILD while napping between classes on their desks!

----------


## enak101

Might give it a try then, doesn't really take that long to cycle through it four times. 

15 seconds each times 3
45 seconds per cycle
45 times 3 is 135 seconds so a bit over two minutes to do it. 

Get to attempt it three times a day heh.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Might give it a try then, doesn't really take that long to cycle through it four times. 
> 
> 15 seconds each times 3
> 45 seconds per cycle
> 45 times 3 is 135 seconds so a bit over two minutes to do it. 
> 
> Get to attempt it three times a day heh.



If you do it that way then you will fail for sure.  The 15-second is just a reference, which should not be carried out precisely.  The key is to do the exercise in a "lazy" fashion.  You WANT to forget time, you WANT to lose count, and you WANT to drag this as long as possible!  You should NEVER count in your head!

----------


## GibsoNorth

This is just awesome! It makes me lose focus fast, and I have some crazy vivid dreams after!

----------


## enak101

Oh, yeah I forgot that point about being exact heh. Just meant roughly but I guess it would take longer. Thanks, going to sleep in fifteen minutes and I'll attempt it.

----------


## Sydney

During my WBTB last night, I stayed up for about 20 minutes on Dreamviews before going back to bed (that was probably a mistake.. I don't know though). I went through about 6 cycles. My mind started wandering a little but not that much. I decided to roll over. I did about 2 cycles, and then stopped doing them. I kept tossing and turning until I finally went to sleep.

I guess I lost some sleep last night. Maybe I was too awake?

----------


## Moondreamer

I tried this halfheartedly last night, after bad recal l and no lucids for months. I had a very long lucid and a FA last night, extremely pleased!

----------


## mcwillis

> I tried this halfheartedly last night, after bad recal l and no lucids for months. I had a very long lucid and a FA last night, extremely pleased!



 :woohoo:

----------


## DinoSawr

Wow, some crazy success stories already with this technique. Makes me wonder if I should scrap what I've been working on and just do this, hehe.

----------


## Sydney

I guess I'm just trying to find a balance with this technique.  :smiley:  If I do it one way, I barely get through one cycle, my mind wanders and I fall asleep. If I do it another way, I focus on it too much and after at least 6 cycles it takes me forever to fall asleep.

----------


## Sydney

> I tried this halfheartedly last night, after bad recal l and no lucids for months. I had a very long lucid and a FA last night, extremely pleased!



Did you fall asleep while doing the cycles? Or did you do them, roll over and fall asleep?  :smiley: 
Oh and, how long did you stay up in your WBTB?

Sorry for the questions, I just want to learn from other people's successes  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

I missed my alarm going off, so instead of 5 hours and 30 minutes of sleeping, it ended up as 6 hours and 30 minutes, which I think was what made me fail. I did the technique as best as I could, focusing about not focusing. My mind wandered a lot, which was good. I think I just slept too much. Would SSILD work after about 3 hours of being awake? (in a nap..)

----------


## blubbdavid

I used this technique for three nights.
The first two nights, nothing special happened.
The third night I was to tired to make the exercises and only stuck with concentrating on the lights behind the eyelids. But soon I started to get a strange feeling, getting to a full SP (not just some weird feelings, a whole fully developed SP, I couldn't move) This then resulted to the second WILD I had in my life.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I used this technique for three nights.
> The first two nights, nothing special happened.
> The third night I was to tired to make the exercises and only stuck with concentrating on the lights behind the eyelids. But soon I started to get a strange feeling, getting to a full SP (not just some weird feelings, a whole fully developed SP, I couldn't move) This then resulted to the second WILD I had in my life.



Congrats!  Once you get a hang of it you will have many lucid moments ahead of you which I'm sure of!  Please try to adhere to what resulted the success -- timing wise as well as how you executed the technique.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I missed my alarm going off, so instead of 5 hours and 30 minutes of sleeping, it ended up as 6 hours and 30 minutes, which I think was what made me fail. I did the technique as best as I could, focusing about not focusing. My mind wandered a lot, which was good. I think I just slept too much. Would SSILD work after about 3 hours of being awake? (in a nap..)



I'd say at least 5 hours of sleep is optimal.  3 is not sufficient .

----------


## SpaceCowboyDave

I tried this again last night.  I went to bed at 12:00am I woke up at 5:00am.  I could not perform the technique.  I was too tired/couldn't concentrate.  I would look at my eyelids, then get distracted or perhaps almost fall asleep but I kept waking back up and starting over, so I was never able to stay away for the whole 4-5 sets.

----------


## Sydney

> I'd say at least 5 hours of sleep is optimal.  3 is not sufficient .



I meant like, waking up for the day, waiting three hours, and then performing the technique in a nap.  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> I meant like, waking up for the day, waiting three hours, and then performing the technique in a nap.



That should work  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

I got lucid again last night  :smiley: 
I got back in bed after my WBTB (5 hours and 30 minutes), and did 5 cycles I think. My mind kept wandering which was good. But, after I got comfortable again, it took me FOREVER to fall back to sleep. Literally, I was probably laying there/tossing and turning after the cycles for about an hour.

Even though it took me a while to fall asleep, I was still lucid anyway.  :smiley:  It was a weird lucid though (lucid from the start of a dream), at one point I thought I came back into SP, but I think I was dreaming then. It was weird.

Any tips on how I can fall asleep faster? I've always had troubles with falling asleep.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I got lucid again last night 
> I got back in bed after my WBTB (5 hours and 30 minutes), and did 5 cycles I think. My mind kept wandering which was good. But, after I got comfortable again, it took me FOREVER to fall back to sleep. Literally, I was probably laying there/tossing and turning after the cycles for about an hour.
> 
> Even though it took me a while to fall asleep, I was still lucid anyway.  It was a weird lucid though (lucid from the start of a dream), at one point I thought I came back into SP, but I think I was dreaming then. It was weird.
> 
> Any tips on how I can fall asleep faster? I've always had troubles with falling asleep.



Did you feel tired after you wake up in the morning?  If not, then you might be experiencing really convincing false awakenings.  Please take a close look at the "Common causes for loss of sleep" section of my original post.  That should explain most scenarios.  Good luck!

----------


## Sydney

Do you mean to say that I could have been in an FA last night, trying to fall asleep while I was already "sleeping"?
Ok. I will.  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> Do you mean to say that I could have been in an FA last night, trying to fall asleep while I was already "sleeping"?
> Ok. I will.



 Lol, yes that's what I meant.  It's actually quite common  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Kinda creepy how real it felt then.  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> Kinda creepy how real it felt then.



Yes it can be extremely realistic, even the way the bed sheet rubbing against your skin, the person snoring beside you, and etc.  The rule of sum is, if you consistantly find yourself not being able to fall asleep, or you suddenly wake up after doing the exerice, you should perform an RC regardless how certain you are.

----------


## Superdub49

Interesting technique, I'm going to try it when I wake naturally during the night ^_^

----------


## CloudOFmichael

Reading all of the replies, I have NEVER seen a technique with this much success. I have been here a while and I truly think that this could replace the traditional WILD and other variations of it. It also seems a million times simpler than the traditional one. I will try this tonight and post my results tomorrow. Thanks a million!  :Cheeky:

----------


## McDreamy

I think I'll give this a try in the next few days. I'm a bit unsure about the whole OBE thing though. Not sure that I want one.

----------


## Sea07

Huh, I certainly like the sound of this tech. To me, traditional WILD's have been WAY too much work and with my lifestyle, losing sleep is out of the question. I will definitely attempt this one, thanks mate.

@McDreamy - Why are you uncertain about OBE's? Are you afraid of them?





> Do you mean to say that I could have been in an FA last night, trying to fall asleep while I was already "sleeping"?



Ahaha, yes this intrigues me. How amazing is it that even when you are expecting it, your mind tricks you so. This has happened to me many times. Once, I was floating in circles above my bed but all I was thinking was "agh, another failed WILD attempt, better just go to sleep now". It was in fact, quite frustrating.

----------


## McDreamy

@Sea07
Yah, a little bit afraid of them. Prolly just cuz I know nothing about them and have never had one though. Have you ever had any?

----------


## Sea07

@McDreamy
Fair enough, and yes. I have had a couple of OBE's and IMO, they are no different from a regular LD. I think it's just your mind simulating the experience so well it can be misconstrued as an actual "leaving of ones body". Don't worry about them, they are in fact, quite entertaining and after I "left my body" so to speak, everything behaved as a regular LD, things changed around me etc. Although some would say my experience wasn't an OBE I say to them, "I was out of my body, therefore it was an Out of Body experience." Thank you.

----------


## Sydney

Seems like I didn't have enough time to dream or actually wake up after I fell asleep performing the tech. :/ Maybe I should go to bed earlier.
Or, I was in an FA and I didn't know it.

Tricky, tricky...

----------


## CloudOFmichael

> I got lucid again last night 
> I got back in bed after my WBTB (5 hours and 30 minutes), and did 5 cycles I think. My mind kept wandering which was good. But, after I got comfortable again, it took me FOREVER to fall back to sleep. Literally, I was probably laying there/tossing and turning after the cycles for about an hour.
> 
> Even though it took me a while to fall asleep, I was still lucid anyway.  It was a weird lucid though (lucid from the start of a dream), at one point I thought I came back into SP, but I think I was dreaming then. It was weird.
> 
> Any tips on how I can fall asleep faster? I've always had troubles with falling asleep.



This is exactly what happened to me last night except I didn't get lucid  :Sad: . It took me SOOO long to get to sleep. Can anyone give me tips on falling asleep quicker?

----------


## Sea07

I tried this technique last night and the following results occured:
I slept through my 4:30 alarm but awoke at daybreak, probably around 6:30. I thought "even though my mother will be up in another hour or so, I'll try it anyway." So, I did the techniques as stated in the OP and found myself drifting off regularly. When I decided it was enough I took about 10-15 minutes to fall asleep. See, I didn't do a WBTB, I just awoke and started the technique after rolling over. I did fall asleep and I remember about 3 false awakenings and 2 of them were Lucid. The first Lucid was short, I did your floor crawling technique but everything went gray. I immediately entered another FA through DEILD. This one was longer, I shouted "MORE LUCIDITY" when I walked outside (This wasn't the clearest Lucid I've ever had). It didn't help that I tried to teleport via dream spinning and closing my eyes. This led to another DEILD induced FA in which I lost lucidity almost immediately.
In conclusion, I will definitely continue on with this method and see If I get any improvements. I just need to make my lucids clearer and longer.

@Sydney and mutualdreamer
I almost had trouble falling asleep as well, after doing the technique I just continued observing the images behind my eyelids until my mind wandered. I also tend to purposely think about something that makes me happy or calm. Good thoughts I guess.

----------


## McDreamy

@Sea07 Ya that doesn't sound scary at all, more on the interesting side. I also wonder if its just the mind simulating the experience. And nice job on the lucids.

----------


## CloudOFmichael

> I tried this technique last night and the following results occured:
> I slept through my 4:30 alarm but awoke at daybreak, probably around 6:30. I thought "even though my mother will be up in another hour or so, I'll try it anyway." So, I did the techniques as stated in the OP and found myself drifting off regularly. When I decided it was enough I took about 10-15 minutes to fall asleep. See, I didn't do a WBTB, I just awoke and started the technique after rolling over. I did fall asleep and I remember about 3 false awakenings and 2 of them were Lucid. The first Lucid was short, I did your floor crawling technique but everything went gray. I immediately entered another FA through DEILD. This one was longer, I shouted "MORE LUCIDITY" when I walked outside (This wasn't the clearest Lucid I've ever had). It didn't help that I tried to teleport via dream spinning and closing my eyes. This led to another DEILD induced FA in which I lost lucidity almost immediately.
> In conclusion, I will definitely continue on with this method and see If I get any improvements. I just need to make my lucids clearer and longer.
> 
> @Sydney and mutualdreamer
> I almost had trouble falling asleep as well, after doing the technique I just continued observing the images behind my eyelids until my mind wandered. I also tend to purposely think about something that makes me happy or calm. Good thoughts I guess.



Last night, I did a full fledged WBTB by staying awak about 30 minutes after awaking and got no results so @Sydney suggested that I only stay awake (during WBTB) for around 5 minutes. You, though, did not stay awake at all and seemed to have awesome results. Tonight, I will try not staying awake at all and see how it goes, if I fail again, I will try @Sydney's suggestion.
P.S. Thanks a lot for the falling-asleep tip  ::wink:: !

----------


## Sea07

@McDreamy
Yes, it is an intriguing topic for sure, and thank you!

@mutualdreamer
Good idea. I find that if I get up for too long I just can't get back to sleep. OK, give it a go, I think my lucids last night were a bit (lot) blurry because I was too tired when I started the techniques. Yes, tonight I will try getting up to use the toilet (I always need to pee in the morning) because a full bladder can keep me up and it may give me that extra bit of focus and in turn, more vivid lucids. No problem about the sleeping tips, I really hope they help you and Sydney both!!

----------


## Despierto

Got thrown in and out of a luciddream 3 times this night with this technique, all 3 was OBE's. Very vivid, also my first OBE's. I atleast THINK it was due the few reps of this I did. 
Thank you

----------


## Sydney

Same thing that happened again last night. I think I did the technique correctly, fell asleep, but woke up to my alarm clock in the morning.

@Sea07: Yeah, I just usually get up to use the restroom like you said you probably needed to do  :tongue2:  And getting up also helps me get a little bit of awareness to actually do the technique without falling right back to sleep after hitting the pillow.

Tonight will be the night!  :smiley:

----------


## CloudOFmichael

I had a LD but it was very short. I am 100% I will have a good, long one tonight though because my dad screwed EVERYTHING up last night. I can't wait!  ::D:

----------


## CloudOFmichael

> @McDreamy
> Yes, it is an intriguing topic for sure, and thank you!
> 
> @mutualdreamer
> Good idea. I find that if I get up for too long I just can't get back to sleep. OK, give it a go, I think my lucids last night were a bit (lot) blurry because I was too tired when I started the techniques. Yes, tonight I will try getting up to use the toilet (I always need to pee in the morning) because a full bladder can keep me up and it may give me that extra bit of focus and in turn, more vivid lucids. No problem about the sleeping tips, I really hope they help you and Sydney both!!



How did it go for you last night?

----------


## Sea07

@CosmicIron
Oh, I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sure it's nothing personal whatever it is but we're all different, it just takes people time to adjust to other's ways. I wish you luck in the future though and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience here on DreamViews! See you.

@Sydney
You're right, I'm like you and need to gain a little awareness before trying to relax again, otherwise I'll just fall asleep again!

@mutualdreamer
It didn't go so well. I set an alarm for 2:30 this morning because my parents had to get up at about 4:30, If I set an alarm then they would disturb my efforts. Anyway, I slept through the alarm and ended up waking naturally at 4:30. I got up to use the toilet and returned to bed, did about 4 repetitions and then my parents got up. I couldn't sleep with them walking around so I just stayed relaxed and did more repetitions. When they left I tried falling asleep again but the birds started their morning song. Once that starts I just can't go back to sleep so I got up and here I am now... If I fell asleep again I would have had some lucids for sure. Tonight will work, no-one can disturb me then!

@Sydney AND mutualdreamer
Good luck tonight!





> Got thrown in and out of a luciddream 3 times this night with this technique, all 3 was OBE's. Very vivid, also my first OBE's. I atleast THINK it was due the few reps of this I did. 
> Thank you



Nice work, keep it up mate!

I think I've covered it all for now.

----------


## yuppie11975

I'm finally trying this, I can't ignore the massive sucess rate.

----------


## Sydney

> I'm finally trying this, I can't ignore the massive sucess rate.



Awesome!  :tongue2: 

@CosmicIron: Okay.  :Sad:  I understand. But thank you so much for telling us all this amazing new technique! Without it I would be struggling no doubt!
Thanks again!

----------


## CloudOFmichael

> I'm finally trying this, I can't ignore the massive sucess rate.



SWEET! I can't wait to hear your results.


P.S. All of my DEILDS came from your technique  :wink2: .

----------


## Sea07

@yuppie11975
Aha, yep it is quite a successful technique. Keep us posted on your progress.

@CosmicIron
What Sydney said, I believe this method will become the core of my Lucid Induction, without it I would be relying purely on the hopes I would question my reality in a dream, which never seems to happen. So again, thank you.

----------


## Sydney

I can't wait to see how much success SSILD will bring in the future!  :smiley:

----------


## enak101

Sorry to hear that Cosmic Iron. You should come back some day. Good luck and thanks for the technique that is helping so many people!

----------


## McDreamy

Also sorry to hear that CosmicIron. Thanks for posting this technique though, I'm going to try this as often as I can.

----------


## CloudOFmichael

I did everything perfect and was undisturbed but I still didn't get lucid Dx. I told myself to wake up after 5 hours, woke up at some time, used bathroom, got water, did 5 cycles, fell asleep in good time, had normal dream  :Sad: .
Tonight I will try not getting up at all and see if it goes better then.

----------


## GoldenLight

Wow!  :bravo: I *MUST* try this as this is my method for meditating. I was able to after much practice, enter the void using such a method as you mentioned here. I often stare at the blackness behind my eyelids and listen to either hemi-sync music when meditating, or at times, my own ear ringing. VERY intriguing. Thnx so much for sharing this method!

----------


## Despierto

I NEED further knowledge about this method, WHY IS IT WORKING? 
One does not simply lucid dream by messing with ones senses.

----------


## GoldenLight

> I NEED further knowledge about this method, WHY IS IT WORKING? 
> One does not simply lucid dream by messing with ones senses.



Hello Daban, 

What do you fear might happen?

----------


## Despierto

I've succeeded with the method but I'm just interested in why and what happens in the brain..
Why does this give so much FA's and DEILDS? :O

----------


## GoldenLight

> I've succeeded with the method but I'm just interested in why and what happens in the brain..
> Why does this give so much FA's and DEILDS? :O



Well, I can't answer that one  :wink2:  as I have not done much lucid dreaming with this or any other method. However, I do use it, or a very similar method, when I meditate.  :smiley:  As for what happens in the brain, I can't say. Do we know what happens in the brain with any of the other methods?  :Uhm:

----------


## Despierto

> Well, I can't answer that one  as I have not done much lucid dreaming with this or any other method. However, I do use it, or a very similar method, when I meditate.  As for what happens in the brain, I can't say. Do we know what happens in the brain with any of the other methods?



Haha I'm not sure.. Well the other techniques have made somewhat sense but this is.. I just don't get how it works  ::D:  Anyway, I'm happy it does.

I'll send you a pm about a question I have. I don't want the thread to go off topic.

----------


## Sea07

> I did everything perfect and was undisturbed but I still didn't get lucid Dx. I told myself to wake up after 5 hours, woke up at some time, used bathroom, got water, did 5 cycles, fell asleep in good time, had normal dream .
> Tonight I will try not getting up at all and see if it goes better then.



I did exactly what you did. I woke up, wrote dot points about a non lucid I had, went to the bathroom, did the exercises and fell asleep all in good time. I had a ripper of a non lucid but no FA's this time. I'll just keep doing it. Tell me how not getting up works when you have results.

----------


## CloudOFmichael

> I did exactly what you did. I woke up, wrote dot points about a non lucid I had, went to the bathroom, did the exercises and fell asleep all in good time. I had a ripper of a non lucid but no FA's this time. I'll just keep doing it. Tell me how not getting up works when you have results.



Im sorry but your last sentence makes no sense to me. Lol please rephrase :p

----------


## Sea07

> Im sorry but your last sentence makes no sense to me. Lol please rephrase :p



Ha, sorry. I'm tired this morning. You said earlier that you would try not getting up for the bathroom when you wake up for SSILD. Please tell me how this works for you.

----------


## yuppie11975

I tried this last night, and I got a lucid out of it! (First attempt! How's that?!)
Is it just me, or does this make you really aware and energised?
My dad informed me that I was shouting in my sleep last night, though. Not sure if there's any relation.

----------


## Sea07

> I tried this last night, and I got a lucid out of it! (First attempt! How's that?!)
> Is it just me, or does this make you really aware and energised?
> My dad informed me that I was shouting in my sleep last night, though. Not sure if there's any relation.



Oh, that's great! Huh, the technique didn't make me energized but it certainly made me more aware of my dream state. About the shouting, that's hilarious but I don't know what could have caused that. Are you trying it again tonight?

----------


## yuppie11975

Sure am  :smiley: 
Hahahah, apparently dad came in and asked me what was up
And I replied "I'm here, I'm here" Repeatedly.

----------


## Sea07

Huh, that's creepy. Well good luck tonight.

----------


## Chetan

I have been doing this for a month.No the technique.The WBTB.
I always set the alarm wake for a few moments or seconds to say and forget to do the technique.
I dunno why.I always forget to do the technique.
Anybody has solution for this?

----------


## McDreamy

@Chetan, Maybe you need to stay up a little longer to get your mind jogging again, then you'll remember to do the technique. Actually getting out of bed may help.

I keep waking up and trying the technique right away and just seem to fall asleep before I get through it. Or I'll have a hard time 'not focussing'. I think the falling asleep too soon should be easy to fix but does anyone else have trouble not focussing too hard?

----------


## Taffy

> Sure am 
> Hahahah, apparently dad came in and asked me what was up
> And I replied "I'm here, I'm here" Repeatedly.



What was your lucid about? De you remember saying anything in it?

----------


## Sea07

> @Chetan, Maybe you need to stay up a little longer to get your mind jogging again, then you'll remember to do the technique. Actually getting out of bed may help.
> 
> I keep waking up and trying the technique right away and just seem to fall asleep before I get through it. Or I'll have a hard time 'not focussing'. I think the falling asleep too soon should be easy to fix but does anyone else have trouble not focussing too hard?



 I have focusing issues as well. I'm always drifting off but jut bring myself back to the task. I usually just force myself to focus on the exercises and that helps. Well I tried this method again last night. I had a sub-lucid because it was so fuzzy and I lost lucidity very soon. I'll give this tech a few more tries but I'm not sure if it's doing much for me, plus schools going back tomorrow so I can't afford to lose any sleep.

----------


## Sydney

That's awesome yuppie!  ::D: 

Oh and the same thing happened yesterday night that happened that night before. I did the technique almost perfectly, and then I fell asleep but never got to lucidity.  :Sad:  Just a normal dream.

----------


## McDreamy

I think I'm going to try and give this a few weeks of doing it, now that exams are almost done and I can afford to spend some time with WBTB's. I imagine it will still take a bit of time to get this technique right, even though some people are having some very quick results with it. 

I know were not supposed to do it before bed but I tried 'practicing' not focusing too hard last night before sleep and then had my first lucid (although 2 seconds or less) in a long time in the first part of my sleep before my WBTB.

----------


## Sea07

@McDreamy
So you did this before going to bed and it worked? That's interesting, perhaps I will try that instead of waking up during the night because I just simply cannot afford to lose sleep. Who knows, it might work.

----------


## Mzzkc

> I NEED further knowledge about this method, WHY IS IT WORKING? 
> One does not simply lucid dream by messing with ones senses.



Will have to experiment a bit, but the mechanism seems straightforward enough, to me anyways.

'Focusing' on WL senses as you drift off makes you more aware of your environment, and with a lack of other thoughts or inputs from which to build associations, dream formation will take its course using your sleeping location as the root schema.

It's the same reason passive/anchored WILDs often begin with an FA, except this is a more natural approach that encapsulates the details in order to pull off a sort of super-MILD.

It's quite brilliant, really. I think I'll make this a regular part of my daily naps.

----------


## McDreamy

@Sea07
Ya it was a complete accident, I wasn't trying to have an LD without doing a WBTB. Was just seeing if I could do it without focussing too hard. Ya who knows, give it a shot and let us know what happens.

----------


## Sea07

@McDreamy
Huh, yes I'll try it and report back when I get the chance.

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## yuppie11975

This is pretty crazy  :smiley: 
I look forward to trying again tonight!
Hahahah, I always forget what three things to do ;3 You know how you can't really think rationally when you first wake up?
I'm like; "Smell, taste, hear?"
"No, See, hear, smell?"
"No, I remember! "Sight, hear,  feel"   :wink2:

----------


## Sydney

> This is pretty crazy 
> I look forward to trying again tonight!
> Hahahah, I always forget what three things to do ;3 You know how you can't really think rationally when you first wake up?
> I'm like; "Smell, taste, hear?"
> "No, See, hear, smell?"
> "No, I remember! "Sight, hear,  feel"



Haha exactly!  :smiley: 

Well last night was a flop. I did my WBTB, got back in bed, and totally forgot to do my technique.  :Cheeky: 

For everyone that's succeeded, how long did you stay up in your WBTBs? I usually just use the restroom and get back in bed.
Oh and also how long did you sleep before you got up for your WBTB?

----------


## Sydney

> This is pretty crazy 
> I look forward to trying again tonight!
> Hahahah, I always forget what three things to do ;3 You know how you can't really think rationally when you first wake up?
> I'm like; "Smell, taste, hear?"
> "No, See, hear, smell?"
> "No, I remember! "Sight, hear,  feel"



Haha exactly!  :smiley: 

Well last night was a flop. I did my WBTB, got back in bed, and totally forgot to do my technique.  :Cheeky: 

For everyone that's succeeded, how long did you stay up in your WBTBs? I usually just use the restroom and get back in bed.
Oh and also how long did you sleep before you got up for your WBTB?

----------


## mcwillis

> For everyone that's succeeded, how long did you stay up in your WBTBs? I usually just use the restroom and get back in bed.
> Oh and also how long did you sleep before you got up for your WBTB?



Getting up for a few minutes like that is good as you should be able to do the technique and fall asleep easily. 6 hours for a wbtb is generally accepted as the optimal time  :smiley:

----------


## [email protected]

All right, I succeeded WILD 2 times and had like 3-5 FAs, and had 1 semi-LD after reading this thread  ::D: 

here's what I did: so I remembered doing SSILD after waking up. I just did it after I immediately woke up during night... and closed eyes. Then I just fell asleep after doing 1 cycle lol. I dreamed of conjuring a huge sickle in my room and playing with it. it was really fun, but never got lucid. when I woke up again I did SSILD for 2 cycles, and then I had 'OBE dream', or I don't if I had that or I just lifted my dream body on purpose, but I DID wild. I shouted clarity! but then I woke up shortly...
for the third time I did SSILD again for 4 cycles, but this time I was too awoke..so I couldn't fall alseep for 10 mintues. BUT when I fell asleep I lifted my dream body again. this time I could enter lucid dream and I flew out of veranda  ::D: 
and then in second dream I had a dream of meeting friend of mine - she told me that her dreamed synched with me. I also dreamed of writing a post on this thread that I had succeed with it  :smiley: 

For me 3 cycles are enough to do. I guess the time for staying up for WBTB and cycles depend on each person so I'd suggest you find your own way...

Anyway, I always tried to find a way to have LD/ WILD during night. (early morning) but I always kept falling asleep and forgetting to do it. Falling asleep easily was the hard part for me, but this technique finally solved the problem! and I broke my dryspell today.
So thank you so much CosmicIron. I wished I could find a guide for this...and I didn't even know the steps!! thanks so much!  :smiley:

----------


## dakotahnok

*Well I have been in a dryspell lately and last night was the second time of trying this technique, and I got three lucid dreams.

I am weary this is a placebo so I will keep trying.*

----------


## mcwillis

> Well I have been in a dryspell lately and last night was the second time of trying this technique, and I got three lucid dreams.
> 
> I am weary this is a placebo so I will keep trying.



I doubt it was just your intent as it has been producing awesome results and yours can be added. Several people are saying 'last night', are you doing this with wbtb or before a nights sleep?

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by mcwillis


I doubt it was just your intent as it has been producing awesome results and yours can be added. Several people are saying 'last night', are you doing this with wbtb or before a nights sleep?



I'm pretty sure its not a placebo. I'm just not 100% sure.

I used it with wbtb. I stayed up for like 5 minutes.*

----------


## [email protected]

^I agree with you that this is not a placebo..._WILD, DILD are placebo_  :tongue2: 


I think I found another theory behind this technique.

/have you guys ever wondered that why you lucid dream well during naps or late morning, not EARLY in the morning?
The reason is, that the brain structure which allows us to produce those 'dream-like images(hypnagogic images)' called interbrain or diencephalon, is activated with cerebrum both awake together easily at that time, which makes us lucid in dream fluently. However, during night, like I said early in the morning, there's a high possibility of interbrain and cerebrum being asleep.
So using SSILD, you can activate your interbrain a little stimulating your senses (seeing, feeling, hearing) thus, you can have either OBE, WILD, or even DILD, or at least you suspect your dream!
well just my opinion. what do you guys think?

----------


## McDreamy

Although I don't really know anything about brain science, thats interesting.

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by [email protected]


^I agree with you that this is not a placebo...WILD, DILD are placebo 



where do you get WILD and DILD are plecebo? I can't agree with that. 

As far as your theory. It is possible.*

----------


## [email protected]

well I'm not saying WILD and DILD are placebo per se, I meant that those take more intent and right mindset with some effort to have them during night than/contrary to SSILD. just my opinion, well most of my WILDs are from strong intent in my head without a thought, it's simple but it's kinda hard  :Cheeky:

----------


## Sydney

That does sound interesting, the way SSILD works.  :tongue2:

----------


## Sydney

No luck last night. Woke up, did my WBTB, got back in bed, and did about 1 and a half cycles before my mind wandered and I fell asleep. 

Darn..

----------


## Taffy

Ok, I gotta remember to do this. I keep forgetting. >_>

----------


## [email protected]

Had FA again. Semi-LD - I practiced levitation  ::D: 
I had a dream that I almost got lucid...

----------


## dakotahnok

*No luck last night either. Im trying to stay away from my MILD technique, so this better end up worth it.*

----------


## DannyY

The huge success rate with this method seems promising. I'll give it a try tonight!

----------


## [email protected]

One thing that's missed for this technique (I think), is the strong intent at the end of cycle!! You have to 'intend' to have WILD or DILD or whatever the techqniue it is, your mind have to have desire to LD, without a thought, without a doubt. 
Carefully following the steps is perfectly fine I think, but with intent I think it would be more successful  ::D:

----------


## mcwillis

> One thing that's missed for this technique (I think), is the strong intent at the end of cycle!! You have to 'intend' to have WILD or DILD or whatever the techqniue it is, your mind have to have desire to LD, without a thought, without a doubt. 
> Carefully following the steps is perfectly fine I think, but with intent I think it would be more successful



That isn't what CosmicIron prescribes.  He recommends that the technique should be done passively so as to drift away into sleep after four or five cycles  :smiley:   I don't think intent should be introduced at all.  It is a technique in itself devoid of the need for intent.

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by mcwillis


That isn't what CosmicIron prescribes.  He recommends that the technique should be done passively so as to drift away into sleep after four or five cycles   I don't think intent should be introduced at all.  It is a technique in itself devoid of the need for intent.



You need intent no matter what in order to lucid dream. Without any inten its almost guaranteed that you won't have any lucid dreams.*

----------


## mcwillis

> You need intent no matter what in order to lucid dream. Without any inten its almost guaranteed that you won't have any lucid dreams.



Nonsense.  I have had many DILD's without intending to have them.  I wager that if you instructed 100 people to use this method for a few weeks without the knowledge of what might happen as a result and who also have no desire to have lucid dreams then some of them would have lucid dreams.

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by mcwillis


Nonsense.  I have had many DILD's without intending to have them.  I wager that if you instructed 100 people to use this method for a few weeks without the knowledge of what might happen as a result and who also have no desire to have lucid dreams then some of them would have lucid dreams.



Did you know what lucid dreaming was at the time of having them? If so then yes, there was a small bit of intent. If no then you are a "natural". Which is a special circumstance that not everyone can have.

And until you do that experiment you can't use it to back up your statement.*

----------


## Sydney

I emailed CosmicIron about one of my attempts, where I was doing everything correctly and wasn't getting results. Here is what he exactly said:





> Hi,
> 
> Normally people do the exercise with a lot of mental effort and expect immediate result.  This is a common mistake that causes them loss of sleep.  Since the exercise is designed to work after you fall asleep, losing sleep will not help you succeed.  Your problem, on the other hand, is the exact opposite -- you fall asleep too quickly without entering the trance.  The trance is the state when you become deeply relaxed, your mind begins to wander, and you often forget about the exercise.  The longer we hold onto this state, the more likely we will succeed later.  This is much easier to deal with than the losing sleep problem . You can try the following solutions:
> 
> 1.  Increase the number of repetitions.  Do not fall asleep until you sense you have entered the trance -- mind begins to drift, you forget which step you are into the exercise, and etc.
> 
> 2.  With each cycle, you should feel you are going deeper into the trance.  The sensations should feel more real with each cycle.  For example, do not expect to be able to see anything during the first couple of cycles, but in later cycles you should observe a bit more intently and expect to see something out if the dark.  Same thing goes for hearing things.  In the beginning you don't expect to hear anything but later you should expect to hear the noise in your head more clearly.  Please be careful though -- do NOT force yourself if you absolutely don't feel anything.  Being able to fall asleep always has much higher priority.
> 
> 3.  During the last step where you try to fall asleep quickly, you may want to occasionally quickly glance at the darkness behind your closed eyelids.  Do this very quickly and sparingly, do not focus and absolutely do not stress your eye muscles!  If you feel this is keeping you from falling asleep then you should drop it and let go of everything to fall asleep ASAP.
> ...



Hope this helps some of you  :smiley:

----------


## Taffy

Tried last night, passed out after two reps. I didn't recall anything when I woke up though, so I have no idea if it worked or not. :/

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by Sydney


I emailed CosmicIron about one of my attempts, where I was doing everything correctly and wasn't getting results. Here is what he exactly said:



Hope this helps some of you 



Just remember, no matter the  technique, results aren't guaranteed to work every time. At least not at first.*

----------


## happenloo

中国水军前来围观，看英文真吃力……

----------


## Carrot

> 中国水军前来围观，看英文真吃力……



這裡的人大多數都是講英文的。

----------


## mcwillis

> 中国水军前来围观，看英文真吃力



很抱歉，但中國海軍有做這個線程？

我不能說中文，所以使用谷歌翻譯。

----------


## happenloo

welcome to baidu tieba of China，talk about Lucid Dream :Cheeky: 
码几个英文真辛苦，一号水军玄朔先生报道，有后续的水军来吗？

the 水军 means I like 灌水，in China it means 
I can 形容 sorry
hope sb. can 解释

I forgot the link
search www。baidu。com,then enter "清明梦".fand the "清明梦吧"
lucid Dream website 
It's the Chinese biggist website which is research and Communicate Lucid Dream.

or     
 tieba。baidu。com/f?kw=%C7%E5%C3%F7%C3%CE#
turn "。"to" ."

----------


## [email protected]

I forgot to do SSILD during night, but I had awesome semi-LD again! I practiced dream battle with Sanji from One Piece lol. and I tried to do SSILD in dream...  :tongue2:

----------


## Carrot

> the 水军 means I like 灌水，in China it means ……
> I can 形容 sorry
> hope sb. can 解释



有沒有另外個詞來形容“灌水”？中國人用的有些新詞我還看不懂，太久沒上微博了。哈哈。

Basically I think he meant he's from China and he's just looking around. He said that there's a lucid dream forum dedicated to Chinese in China and here's the link: http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=%C7%E5%C3%F7%C3%CE 

He wants to invite us over to chat with them about lucid dreaming but I guess there would be some communication difficulties.





> 很抱歉，但中國海軍有做這個線程？
> 
> 我不能說中文，所以使用谷歌翻譯。



That is surprisingly accurate for google translate.  ::chuckle::  But some words can't be taken literally and he's definitely not from the Navy. I'm not quite sure what those two words meant too.

----------


## mcwillis

> That is surprisingly accurate for google translate.  But some words can't be taken literally and he's definitely not from the Navy. I'm not quite sure what those two words meant too.



 ::lol::  I didn't think it was working quite as it should be  ::lol::

----------


## Sydney

> Just remember, no matter the  technique, results aren't guaranteed to work every time. At least not at first.



Yeah, I know.  :smiley:  I just wanted to email him just to see what he thought about it.

----------


## happenloo

[QUOTE=Carrot;1861973]有沒有另外個詞來形容灌水？中國人用的有些新詞我還看不懂，太久沒上微博了。哈哈。

哈哈，不为难你们了，用简单的意思的解释一下。水军是论坛内使用的名字，指代一类人。他们不是jus  t looking around。just looking around这类人称为潜水。
水军意味着他们喜欢灌水。我们把论坛比喻成酒，水军喜欢往酒里灌水，使论坛的话题变得失去味道  。
他们通常喜欢发些无关紧要的话题，或者胡乱回复。他们可以是一个论坛变得热闹，也可以使一个论  坛变得无聊
OK，差不多这么解释吧，还期待有其他中国人过来一起玩呢~

In China the  "Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD)" is named "太玄经"。
I try many times but I only success oncethe first time I try this method.
now I have no Lucid Dream near by two weeks :Oh noes:

----------


## yuppie11975

^^^^
Same for me happenloo
How many times you try?

----------


## happenloo

> ^^^^
> Same for me happenloo
> How many times you try?



can't discride. I usually try it without right procedure. And often, I haven't do all the procedure before I sleep.

----------


## Taffy

Alright... not sure if it was this technique or a coincidence, but I got lucid last night. Here's how it went down: I woke up for a WBTB, went to the bathroom and came back. I did a few repititions of the technique, and felt sleepy after about 3. HOWEVER, I couldn't fall asleep for some reason (I blame e fact that I'm sick) so I stayed up for a few hours, then went to sleep regularly. Do you think the technique kicked in even though I didn't fall asleep directly after doing it? I'm almost convinced it was a coincidental DILD, but then again I haven't gone lucid I'm a very long time, so I'm not sure.

----------


## Sydney

That's awesome Taffy  :smiley:  Maybe since you gained some extra awareness or something you had that DILD?

----------


## Taffy

> That's awesome Taffy  Maybe since you gained some extra awareness or something you had that DILD?



That could be. If so, then this is like the ultimate technique.

----------


## DannyY

Not sure if it was coincidental or this method that done it, but I had a DILD the first time trying this.

I'll be sure to try this again!

----------


## mcwillis

> Not sure if it was coincidental or this method that done it, but I had a DILD the first time trying this.
> 
> I'll be sure to try this again!



 :woohoo:

----------


## Randoman

I tryed this last night for the first time  and it worked right away i didt even excpect it to work that fast . and it even caused a false awakening just like they said  so for any sceptics out there about this technique do exactly as they say and it will work  

iv been doing this for a whiel so it might just be me but i realy think there on to somthing here so dont give up

----------


## Sydney

> I tryed this last night for the first time  and it worked right away i didt even excpect it to work that fast . and it even caused a false awakening just like they said  so for any sceptics out there about this technique do exactly as they say and it will work  
> 
> iv been doing this for a whiel so it might just be me but i realy think there on to somthing here so dont give up



Do you mind telling us what time you woke up for your WBTB? And how long it was? And how many cycles you did before you fell asleep?  :Cheeky: 

Sorry for the questions, I'm trying to learn from other people's successes ^_^

----------


## [email protected]

I had a perfect FA. I went to the kitchen to drink water and I even did RC. It didn't work so I thought it was reality, and then I went back to bed... ::cry::

----------


## DannyY

Tried it for the second time last night and had another DILD. This method's success is crazy.  :woohoo:

----------


## dakotahnok

*Still no results. Leaning towards placebo.*

----------


## DinoSawr

> Still no results. Leaning towards placebo.



But if it's a placebo that works for so many people, is this a bad thing?

----------


## McDreamy

@Dakotahnok
I was just reading back a little, and didn't you recently just post about how this worked for you by getting you out of a dryspell, and how you were pretty sure it wasn't a placebo? How long have you been practicing this technique?

----------


## TheModernNinja

And from what i've heard if it somehow get cut you die.

----------


## TheModernNinja

> During my WBTB last night, I stayed up for about 20 minutes on Dreamviews before going back to bed (that was probably a mistake.. I don't know though). I went through about 6 cycles. My mind started wandering a little but not that much. I decided to roll over. I did about 2 cycles, and then stopped doing them. I kept tossing and turning until I finally went to sleep.
> 
> I guess I lost some sleep last night. Maybe I was too awake?



Staring at a monitor screen before bed might cause sleep loss. Try to avoid it.

----------


## Taffy

I wanted to try SSILD but I fell asleep after the first part of the first rep. I looked at the back of my eyelids and just passed out.  ::lol:: 

I got lucid anyway, though, so yay.

----------


## Sydney

I know that happened to me too.. except I fell asleep on the first rep in the second cycle lol.
Hate it when that happens. Didn't get lucid though.

----------


## mcwillis

> Still no results. Leaning towards placebo.



There are a lot of threads for techniques to induce lucidity on the forum but they don't have the high level of success that this technique has so I think we can safely rule out that this is a placebo  :smiley:

----------


## Taffy

> There are a lot of threads for techniques to induce lucidity on the forum but they don't have the high level of success that this technique has so I think we can safely rule out that this is a placebo



To be honest, at first I thought this would be another one of those techniques with a fancy acronym that gets 3 posts and dies out, or is just a rehash of old techniques. I was happily proven wrong.

----------


## Randoman

Ok so i  went to bed at 10am and fell asleep doing the techinque so im not shure how many cycles  i did but then i natruly woke up at 3:00am . wich is weird beacuse i usly do my wbtb at 4am but any way i coudent fall asleep so i did the technique  till 4 ::o: oam then went to sleep doing the technique agian then i had a DILD  whent lucid then i thought i woke up but i didt so i guess that somthing i have to wach out for

----------


## Despierto

> Ok so i  went to bed at 10am and fell asleep doing the techinque so im not shure how many cycles  i did but then i natruly woke up at 3:00am . wich is weird beacuse i usly do my wbtb at 4am but any way i coudent fall asleep so i did the technique  till 4oam then went to sleep doing the technique agian then i had a DILD  whent lucid then i thought i woke up but i didt so i guess that somthing i have to wach out for



Yes, this technique seems to give a lot of FA's and strange awakenings and feelings of that you can't fall asleep when you've actually fallen asleep and woken up again. But I like it. I see it as oppurtunities for DEILDs.

----------


## rynkrt3

Been trying this since it came out... no results.

----------


## mcwillis

> Been trying this since it came out... no results.



I haven't had the chance to do WBTB and test this properly.  I wonder why it isn't working for everyone?  Shame CosmicIron isn't here anymore to shed some light on the matter.

----------


## dms111

I think the reason this works has to do with how we tend to wake up with the same thoughts we were having when we fell asleep. Fall asleep doing the cycles, wake up doing the cycles. After you wake up the cycles become an awareness anchor that keeps you conscious just long enough to result in a DEILD. 

The increase in false awakenings might occur because you're expecting to wake up a few times during the night. You dream about what you think about.

----------


## Sea07

I've been really slack, haven't tried this technique for a week since school went back. I'll try again though...

----------


## JeanLucGodard

Just a quick question, there's ten pages and I'm a little too lazy to scroll through all of them to see if this has been asked.

Must it be with an alarm clock or would this work if you woke up at the right time on your own?

----------


## Sea07

It works fine if you just wake up on your own. That's the only way I do it now, did it last night with some interesting results. I had one false awakening in which I was paralyzed and was immediately lucid in a random dream. I won't go into detail about the random dream but it was scary... Very scary.

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by DinoSawr


But if it's a placebo that works for so many people, is this a bad thing?



 No not at all! As long as people are getting lucid, I am happy. just wondering, when did I ever say it was bad?







 Originally Posted by McDreamy


@Dakotahnok
I was just reading back a little, and didn't you recently just post about how this worked for you by getting you out of a dryspell, and how you were pretty sure it wasn't a placebo? How long have you been practicing this technique?



Yes, that is correct. But after reading through the thread again I decided to change that thought. When I first posted I said this works and it probably isn't a placebo. Now I'm saying I think it's a placebo, but I'm not sure yet. I have been practicing it since it came out but stopped a couple of days ago. My MILD works much better. 







 Originally Posted by mcwillis


There are a lot of threads for techniques to induce lucidity on the forum but they don't have the high level of success that this technique has so I think we can safely rule out that this is a placebo 



A placebo can have a good amount of success. That's the thing with lucid dreaming, it's almost all intent which is why placebo's work so well. And the fact that the thread is getting positive feed back is just making the placebo stronger. I'm not saying it IS a placebo, I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to rule that out.*

----------


## JeanLucGodard

Welp, I just tried it and had my first lucid. Holy hell I can't recommend this tactic enough. Its still almost 5AM so I'm going to see if I can have another one.

----------


## DannyY

> It works fine if you just wake up on your own. That's the only way I do it now, did it last night with some interesting results. I had one false awakening in which I was paralyzed and was immediately lucid in a random dream. I won't go into detail about the random dream but it was scary... Very scary.



My first lucid from this technique was also part nightmare, strange.  :Eek:

----------


## CosmicIron

Although I'm not participating in the forums anymore, I'm still getting email notifications for replies to this thread.  Seeing people's questions go unanswered like this somehow made me feel guilty  :Sad: .  Therefore I've decided to come back to provide technical support until the warranty expires... LOL

----------


## CosmicIron

> Just a quick question, there's ten pages and I'm a little too lazy to scroll through all of them to see if this has been asked.
> 
> Must it be with an alarm clock or would this work if you woke up at the right time on your own?



You don't have to use alarm clock.  In fact I never do since I always wake up multiple times during my sleep.  For best result though you may want to get out of your bed and stay awake for a few minutes.

----------


## Taffy

Yet another lucid. I'm going to get a t-shirt that says "I <3 SSILD" on it. Lol.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I know that happened to me too.. except I fell asleep on the first rep in the second cycle lol.
> Hate it when that happens. Didn't get lucid though.



I suggest you stay awake a bit longer before doing the exercise.  You will also want to be a bit more "diligent" while cycling through the senses.  For example, try a little harder to pick up things in the dark...

----------


## CosmicIron

> My first lucid from this technique was also part nightmare, strange.



That IS strange....  :Eek:

----------


## CosmicIron

> No not at all! As long as people are getting lucid, I am happy. just wondering, when did I ever say it was bad?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is correct. But after reading through the thread again I decided to change that thought. When I first posted I said this works and it probably isn't a placebo. Now I'm saying I think it's a placebo, but I'm not sure yet. I have been practicing it since it came out but stopped a couple of days ago. My MILD works much better. 
> 
> 
> 
> A placebo can have a good amount of success. That's the thing with lucid dreaming, it's almost all intent which is why placebo's work so well. And the fact that the thread is getting positive feed back is just making the placebo stronger. I'm not saying it IS a placebo, I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to rule that out.



While I can't explain exactly why it works, I am confident it is not placebo.  On the China based forum, I've collected thousands of success stories, all happened within 8 months, and quite a few people managed to learn to induce LDs at will using SSILD with near 100% success rate.  It does take time and practice to master though... so it is still not as easy and idiot-proof as I want it to be... hopefully we can further improve it.  :Cheeky:

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by CosmicIron


Although I'm not participating in the forums anymore, I'm still getting email notifications for replies to this thread.  Seeing people's questions go unanswered like this somehow made me feel guilty .  Therefore I've decided to come back to provide technical support until the warranty expires... LOL



We are glad to have you back.*

----------


## CosmicIron

> Been trying this since it came out... no results.



While you were doing this, were you experiencing the "trance"?  The trance is the state when your mind begins to wander... you occasionally forget to continue the exercise, and when your thoughts come back you no longer remember how many cycles you have done or at what step you become lost.  If you are not experiencing this then you are not doing the exercise correctly.  Another possibility is lack of mental effort... I need to know more details about how you did your exercise in order to help you analyze.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Still no results. Leaning towards placebo.



Please give me more details on how you did it so I can help.  Generally though, there are three major categories for failure:

1. Can't fall asleep after the exercise.  This is due to too much mental effort and eagerness to get result during the exercise (essentially treating it as a WILD method)
2. Fall asleep too quickly.  This is the opposite of the above problem.  In this case you need to focus more during the cycles and spending extra time to stay awake before going back to bed may also help.
3. Not entering the "trance".  The trance is the state when your mind wanders and you forget to do the exercise occasionally.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I did everything perfect and was undisturbed but I still didn't get lucid Dx. I told myself to wake up after 5 hours, woke up at some time, used bathroom, got water, did 5 cycles, fell asleep in good time, had normal dream .
> Tonight I will try not getting up at all and see if it goes better then.



Did you have trouble falling asleep afterward?

----------


## Sydney

Wasn't really able to attempt SSILD because I was away  :smiley:  But the other night (when I woke up in the morning) I just decided to do SSILD because I missed my chance in the middle of the night. So I did and after about 3 cycles I felt strangely relaxed.

Like really, really relaxed.  :smiley: 
My dad woke me up though.

@CosmicIron: Yay!  :smiley: 

Oh and do we need to stay still the whole time we're doing the cycles? I hate it because ever since I've stopped attempting WILDs I keep moving about every 20 seconds, repositioning my arm, leg, etc.

----------


## ch00b

Just wondering, do we repear each step after doing it or repeat the entire process when we are done? Thanks.

----------


## Taffy

> Just wondering, do we repear each step after doing it or repeat the entire process when we are done? Thanks.



You go through each part of the cycle, then repeat it again. Like sight -> hear -> feel -> sight -> hear...

----------


## CosmicIron

> Just wondering, do we repear each step after doing it or repeat the entire process when we are done? Thanks.



Exactly like what @Taffy said. Sometimes you may feel that the steps overlap -- for example, sighting and hearing going at the same time.  That is fine as long as you don't deliberately attempt that.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Wasn't really able to attempt SSILD because I was away  But the other night (when I woke up in the morning) I just decided to do SSILD because I missed my chance in the middle of the night. So I did and after about 3 cycles I felt strangely relaxed.
> 
> Like really, really relaxed. 
> My dad woke me up though.
> 
> @CosmicIron: Yay! 
> 
> Oh and do we need to stay still the whole time we're doing the cycles? I hate it because ever since I've stopped attempting WILDs I keep moving about every 20 seconds, repositioning my arm, leg, etc.



Thanks Sydney  :Cheeky:  it is important to feel relaxed and comfortable during the exercise; therefore if staying still makes you uncomfortable then you should definitely move to find a better position.  In fact if you feel even slight uncomfort it is probably a sign that indicates you are not doing the exercise correctly.  Also, do NOT deliberately try to stay motionless.  Doing so will only make you tense and lose sleep.  Find the most comfortable position as long as you don't fall asleep right away.

----------


## DinoSawr

I have a question before I attempt this tonight:

If you fall asleep while doing the cycles after having entered the trance a few times, is this okay too?

----------


## CosmicIron

> I have a question before I attempt this tonight:
> 
> If you fall asleep while doing the cycles after having entered the trance a few times, is this okay too?



Yes it's perfectly fine! Just make sure you remind yourself to do an RC upon waking up again.

----------


## DinoSawr

> Yes it's perfectly fine! Just make sure you remind yourself to do an RC upon waking up again.



Cool, thanks!

----------


## TheModernNinja

Hey, you're back!

----------


## Sydney

Did the technique correctly last night, no results though. :/ I think I was thinking too much about it, like, "has it been 20 seconds yet? Oh crap no don't sart thinking like that, I'm not supposed to do that! STOP IT!! AHHHH!!!"

Pretty much how it went down lol.
Thanks CosmicIron! I'll apply that tonight  ::D:  I have a pretty good feeling about tonight's attempt.  ::D:

----------


## dakotahnok

*@cosmiciron 

Does it matter if you forget the order of the trance and maybe repeat parts and not others? Like sight>hearing>sight>touch>sight>hearing. 

Somehow when I'm in the trance I forget what to do, haha.*

----------


## Despierto

> @cosmiciron 
> 
> Does it matter if you forget the order of the trance and maybe repeat parts and not others? Like sight>hearing>sight>touch>sight>hearing. 
> 
> Somehow when I'm in the trance I forget what to do, haha.



Since he hasn't answered I'm going to go ahead and try based on how he've replied before: The point IS to loose track of yourself. You're suppose to wander away and forget what your doing upon entering the trance after some cycles. Just hope you made atleast 2-3 cycles before you fall asleep.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Since he hasn't answered I'm going to go ahead and try based on how he've replied before: The point IS to loose track of yourself. You're suppose to wander away and forget what your doing upon entering the trance after some cycles. Just hope you made atleast 2-3 cycles before you fall asleep.



 Couldn't have said it better myself  :smiley:

----------


## CloudOFmichael

> Did you have trouble falling asleep afterward?



 None at all... maybe it was just a fluke, the Universe kicked me in the face Dx... ill keep trying though  :smiley: !

----------


## Lschilperoort

I'm going to try this tonight. I hope it works after a week of dream journaling and ADA's

----------


## Sea07

Hey welcome back CosmicIron.
Do you have any theories on why me and DannyY have been experiencing unusual dreams from this? I've received one nightmare and two dreams in which I was paralyzed. I never get either of those so close together and it intrigues me. Thanks.

----------


## littlezoe

I tried this technique with WBTB today and i got an LD  :smiley:  Not sure if this SSILD helped or not, maybe it would've happened without it as well, but it's not hard to do, so i'll keep using it  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Went to bed late last night, so I only got about an hour and 45 minutes worth of actual sleeping after my WBTB.

I managed to do only one rep in one cycle and fell asleep.

It was weird though. The next dream I had was pretty vivid, and I was walking around wondering, "Could this be a dream, what if this was a dream?"
Never got lucid though.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Went to bed late last night, so I only got about an hour and 45 minutes worth of actual sleeping after my WBTB.
> 
> I managed to do only one rep in one cycle and fell asleep.
> 
> It was weird though. The next dream I had was pretty vivid, and I was walking around wondering, "Could this be a dream, what if this was a dream?"
> Never got lucid though.



LOL.  You were THAT close!  I guess if you had managed one more cycle you probably would have succeeded  :smiley: . It is quite common to have spontaneous LDs as well as suspicions of realities after doing the exercise.  Next time remind yourself to do RCs more often, and please try at least more than one cycles, LOL.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hey welcome back CosmicIron.
> Do you have any theories on why me and DannyY have been experiencing unusual dreams from this? I've received one nightmare and two dreams in which I was paralyzed. I never get either of those so close together and it intrigues me. Thanks.



One common phenomenon often experienced after the exercise is sudden occurance of OBE and SP within a dream.  That is, while you are dreaming you suddenly find yourself lying there, either on bed or floor, experiencing an SP or phase entrance of an OBE.  This sometimes happen without any warning or transition to the waking state.  Since nightmares are common when associated with SPs, my guess is that you may be experiencing this kind of sudden spontaneous SPs within a dream.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I tried this technique with WBTB today and i got an LD  Not sure if this SSILD helped or not, maybe it would've happened without it as well, but it's not hard to do, so i'll keep using it



Good thinking  :smiley:

----------


## [email protected]

for 9 days praciticing SSILD 
failure reasons: forgetting to SSILD, being awake too much, falling asleep too fast lol
I still don't think it's placebo though, I'm having numerous semi-LDs and FAs  ::D:

----------


## Sea07

@CosmicIron - I see, that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Fascinating, this technique is pretty interesting.
@[email protected] - I'm with you, I have had a few semi-LD's and many FA's with this, no long and vivid lucids yet but keep trying right?

----------


## Sea07

@CosmicIron - I see, that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Fascinating, this technique is pretty interesting.
@[email protected] - I'm with you, I have had a few semi-LD's and many FA's with this, no long and vivid lucids yet but keep trying right?

----------


## littlezoe

I did a WBTB + SSILD again today and got an LD yet again  ::D:  Althrough now it was directly induced by me after i was in SP after waking up... but still  ::D:

----------


## TheSmooze

I'm managing to get long chains of DEILDs using this technique, which is quite nice, but as per usual their stability is lacking and I'm trapped in my room at best and on my bed, barely able to move at worst. Shifting my identity into the "master dreamer" manages to get me off of the bed in most of those instances, but the stability is so lacking I lose the dream in seconds and never get a chance to get out of my room anyway.

----------


## Despierto

> I did a WBTB + SSILD again today and got an LD yet again  Althrough now it was directly induced by me after i was in SP after waking up... but still



Yea this happens to me too with this technique, I just sometimes wake up in sp and get dragged into a dream from almost awake state. It's pretty amazing. These dreams are much more vivid and im much more aware in them compared to normal DILDs

----------


## littlezoe

> Yea this happens to me too with this technique, I just sometimes wake up in sp and get dragged into a dream from almost awake state. It's pretty amazing. These dreams are much more vivid and im much more aware in them compared to normal DILDs



It's usual for me to awake in SP when i'm practising LD more actively, so for me it's not because of this technique  :smiley: 

But as i noticed SSILD helps me get to sleep faster after WBTB ^^

----------


## Sydney

When doing SSILD last night, once again, I felt a strangely relaxing sensation. Like I didn't want to move. Ever. I managed to do about 4 cycles before I fell asleep. It was interesting though; I took a lot more time than I thought I did (20-30 seconds) on each rep. After about the second cycle I heard this strange "patter" noise in my ears. It was far away, and I could barely hear it, but it was there.

No lucids, though. Maybe I just can't remember them because of my suddenly failing recall?

----------


## TheSmooze

I don't remember experiencing anything that can be called sleep paralysis either. Crossing over was a strong tingling sensation that ran through my body, almost like passing through a forcefield of sorts. A rather pleasant way to begin, though I wish I could keep it going.

----------


## RationalMystic

Ok  I tried this in a half-arsed way after my 4:30 alarm went off and I recorded a dream. I found it a bit difficult to fall back to sleep but when I did, I had one of the longest dreams I've ever recorded and I became lucid near the end! Before doing this technique I had only one brief DILD. I'm not sure if this succes was down to my improving recall as a result of MasterMind's walking journal technique or this. Judging by the apparent high success rate of this and the that I became lucid for no apparent reason, I doubt this is placebo. I'm going to continue to use this method and analyse the results before making any conclusions.

----------


## CosmicIron

> When doing SSILD last night, once again, I felt a strangely relaxing sensation. Like I didn't want to move. Ever. I managed to do about 4 cycles before I fell asleep. It was interesting though; I took a lot more time than I thought I did (20-30 seconds) on each rep. After about the second cycle I heard this strange "patter" noise in my ears. It was far away, and I could barely hear it, but it was there.
> 
> No lucids, though. Maybe I just can't remember them because of my suddenly failing recall?



When you do notice distinct sensations, such as seeing colors or hearing things, you should pause the exercise and focus on mentally increasing the sensations.

----------


## Sydney

> When you do notice distinct sensations, such as seeing colors or hearing things, you should pause the exercise and focus on mentally increasing the sensations.



Okay, I'll do that.  :smiley: 

No success last night though. I did question reality in one of my dreams, but it failed for some reason. :/

----------


## littlezoe

I had no success today either... my thoughts were interrupting me too many times, i couldn't focus on SSILD for some reason... I also woke up a little earlier for WBTB, which probably had to do with the failure :/

----------


## RationalMystic

Ok tried this again last night. It didn't work but thats likely because I couldn't sleep last night for some odd reason (not related to the SSILD attempt). I'll give it another bash tonight.

----------


## DinoSawr

My last few attempts I have been falling asleep too quickly after waking up (sometimes because of poor prior sleep) so I know I need to stay up a little longer before beginning the technique. If I normally sleep on my side, would it be a good idea to go through the cycles lying on my back and then turn over on my side to fall asleep quickly?

----------


## Despierto

> My last few attempts I have been falling asleep too quickly after waking up (sometimes because of poor prior sleep) so I know I need to stay up a little longer before beginning the technique. If I normally sleep on my side, would it be a good idea to go through the cycles lying on my back and then turn over on my side to fall asleep quickly?



I've had that problem too now in 3 days. I'm too tired due to exercise and stuff so I'm just too tired to go up in the night or notice my wakeups after dreams. 
And yea it seems like a very good idea to do the technique on your back to then roll over and sleep if your too tired. I will do that too.

----------


## Despierto

> My last few attempts I have been falling asleep too quickly after waking up (sometimes because of poor prior sleep) so I know I need to stay up a little longer before beginning the technique. If I normally sleep on my side, would it be a good idea to go through the cycles lying on my back and then turn over on my side to fall asleep quickly?



I've had that problem too now in 3 days. I'm too tired due to exercise and stuff so I'm just too tired to go up in the night or notice my wakeups after dreams. 
And yea it seems like a very good idea to do the technique on your back to then roll over and sleep if your too tired. I will do that too.

----------


## DinoSawr

Update:

I did this technique after sleeping for 8 hours and definitely felt the sensations. I went into the trance a little bit as well, forgetting what I was doing and then remembering. Unfortunately, I was a little bit too awake and couldn't fall asleep as fast as I wanted to, but nevertheless *I had a short lucid dream later on!*

It lasted for only a few seconds because I freaked myself out, (a detailed account can be found here) but I still think it was the SSILD technique that did that for me. Thank you so much, CosmicIron!

----------


## Sydney

Still unable to get some success! It seems like I'm doing the technique okay.

For all the people that have succeeded; for how many hours did you sleep before getting up for WBTB?

----------


## Despierto

> Still unable to get some success! It seems like I'm doing the technique okay.
> 
> For all the people that have succeeded; for how many hours did you sleep before getting up for WBTB?



I simply do it each time i wake up during the night. from 4-7 hours.

----------


## Sea07

@Sydney
It varies, but since I usually wake naturally at around 3-4:30am It's usually about 6-7 hours sleep. Like you however I have been having little success. We just need to keep at it!

----------


## Sydney

> We just need to keep at it!



Definetly.  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> Still unable to get some success! It seems like I'm doing the technique okay.
> 
> For all the people that have succeeded; for how many hours did you sleep before getting up for WBTB?



Sydney, please provide a detailed description on your routine so I can help you diagnose.  :Cheeky:

----------


## littlezoe

Ugh... i was doing SSILD after WBTB today... i did it like 20 times in a row and i couldn't fall asleep at all.. needless to say i didn't get an LD  :Sad:

----------


## Sydney

> Sydney, please provide a detailed description on your routine so I can help you diagnose.



Haha sorry CosmicIron.  :tongue2: 
It goes something like this:

I wake up for my WBTB after sleeping for about 5 hours and 30 minutes. I get up, use the restroom, and then get back in bed. All of this happens in about 2 minutes.
I do the technique, but it seems like I take 25 - 35 seconds on each rep (sight, hear, feel) because my mind keeps wandering and I need to start over, or I'm not real sure how long it has been on that rep. Eventually I do about 3 - 4 cycles and then try to fall asleep.

And sometimes I find myself doing the same rep over and over again.

That's pretty much how it goes every night.  :Cheeky:

----------


## Despierto

> Haha sorry CosmicIron. 
> It goes something like this:
> 
> I wake up for my WBTB after sleeping for about 5 hours and 30 minutes. I get up, use the restroom, and then get back in bed. All of this happens in about 2 minutes.
> I do the technique, but it seems like I take 25 - 35 seconds on each rep (sight, hear, feel) because my mind keeps wandering and I need to start over, or I'm not real sure how long it has been on that rep. Eventually I do about 3 - 4 cycles and then try to fall asleep.
> 
> And sometimes I find myself doing the same rep over and over again.
> 
> That's pretty much how it goes every night.



Hows your recall? perhaps your forgetting the dreams and event from the night?
I would try going to bed earlier to notice every awakening and so on.

----------


## Suratana

nothing happened, I've tried this technique for the last 4 days. 

I have few questions

1. do I have to get up, for several minutes then doing the techinique?
2. or, can I do this techinique as soon as I wake up, without opening my eyes? (I supposed to combine your technique to DEILD, but I failed again and again.
3. any advice for people like me, who can fall assleep within second. ( I can only do your repetitons techinique only for 2 times) then I totally forget your technique begin wandering and fall assleep?

----------


## Raspberry

I've decided to try this technique, as I took a year out of lucid dreaming and thought I'd get back into it again  :smiley:  MILD works well for me but I thought I'd give this a try since it seems to have a lot of positive feedback.

Last night I woke up after around 3-4 hours sleep (woke up naturally). I went to the toilet and then back to bed straight away. I got comfy and started to do the cycles, but after around one my body started tensing up. I know exactly what the trance feels like cause I've been there before while MILDing (I got a lot of FAs during my MILDs, I now realise that it could be because of this) and I know I can reach it easily, however I kept having to stop and stretch to release the tension. After awhile this woke me up too much to do the cycles properly, so I just went to sleep normally.

I'll try again tonight, I'm not annoyed from one failure. I think this would work well for me as I can reach the trance state quickly and I've had experience with it before. Tonight I'll set an alarm for around 5.5 hours (this was my optimum MILD time) and stretch well before I go to bed...

It would be awesome to know how this works, I'd like to hear more theories on it  ::D:

----------


## CosmicIron

> Haha sorry CosmicIron. 
> It goes something like this:
> 
> I wake up for my WBTB after sleeping for about 5 hours and 30 minutes. I get up, use the restroom, and then get back in bed. All of this happens in about 2 minutes.
> I do the technique, but it seems like I take 25 - 35 seconds on each rep (sight, hear, feel) because my mind keeps wandering and I need to start over, or I'm not real sure how long it has been on that rep. Eventually I do about 3 - 4 cycles and then try to fall asleep.
> 
> And sometimes I find myself doing the same rep over and over again.
> 
> That's pretty much how it goes every night.



It appears to me that you may need to stay awake a bit longer.  Try staying awake for 10 minutes next time so at least the first couple of repetitions can be done without interruption.  After that you can allow your mind to wander and enter the trance.

----------


## Sam1r

THIS KILLED OUT MY DRY SPELL.. 
had an amazing ,very very long lucid  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Oh, so my mind doesn't need to wander a whole lot at the first part of the cycles?
Maybe that's whats getting me.  :smiley:  Spending too much time on each step.

To get this straight, I should do the cycles, then let my mind wander? THEN I'll enter the trance?

Oh and how do I know when I reach the trance?

----------


## Sydney

So I tried it with about 10 minutes for a WBTB. Still no success.
Seems like I'm falling asleep/forgetting what I'm supposed to do even more quickly.. >.>

I'll try again tonight. Maybe I wasn't focused enough.

----------


## mcwillis

> Oh, so my mind doesn't need to wander a whole lot at the first part of the cycles?
> Maybe that's whats getting me.  Spending too much time on each step.
> 
> To get this straight, I should do the cycles, then let my mind wander? THEN I'll enter the trance?
> 
> Oh and how do I know when I reach the trance?



From Cosmic's opening post:





> Theory
> 
> We do not know why exactly SSILD works. One user pointed out that the method shares some resemblance with the self-hypnosis method introduced by Betty Erickson, wife of the late Dr. Milton H. Erickson. Another theory is that by repeated stimulation of the various senses in a trance-like state, we incubate our mind and body into the right condition suited for entering a DILD, WILD, or OBE.



The cycles in themselves should create this trance state themselves if you approach the process in a a relaxed manner mentally.

----------


## LucidPirate

I'm not sure if it was this technique that worked or if it was another one that I was doing that did the trick, but the first night I used this technique I had a lucid dream with a false awakening.

To reproduce: 

Took 5mg Melatonin ( I usually take 15-20mg), did SSILD technique, fell asleep, woke up an hour after I went to sleep (no alarm), got something to drink (WBTB), said a few affirmations in my head (MILD), did SSILD again, watched for hypnagogic imagery (WILD) then drifted away. Woke up with a false awakening in which I was totally lucid from the moment I entered the dream. 

I will try this again tonight. Good stuff.

----------


## Sydney

I'm still not getting any success. Hmmm. I know the goal is to not be focused, but I think that is what's getting me. My mind seems to wander way too much, music is playing in my head, etc.
The first time I ever tried SSILD, I was alert and ready to try it, I was excited.  :smiley:  I guess maybe that's my problem?
I'll read over my first post and the original thread post and see if that helps.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I'm still not getting any success. Hmmm. I know the goal is to not be focused, but I think that is what's getting me. My mind seems to wander way too much, music is playing in my head, etc.
> The first time I ever tried SSILD, I was alert and ready to try it, I was excited.  I guess maybe that's my problem?
> I'll read over my first post and the original thread post and see if that helps.



I'm sorry to hear that Sydney, and I admire your persistance!  Maybe you should try to be more focused on the sensations.  At least in the first few cycles, pay close attention to the various sensations -- Do you see things in the dark?  Do you hear buzzing sound and can you mentally raise the volume?  Do you feel tinglings beneath your skin?  Can you wiggle your fingers and toes without using your muscles? and so on...

----------


## Sydney

> I'm sorry to hear that Sydney, and I admire your persistance!  Maybe you should try to be more focused on the sensations.  At least in the first few cycles, pay close attention to the various sensations -- Do you see things in the dark?  Do you hear buzzing sound and can you mentally raise the volume?  Do you feel tinglings beneath your skin?  Can you wiggle your fingers and toes without using your muscles? and so on...



Thanks.  ::D:  I just know that this technique has a ton of potential; so I'm not giving up on it just yet.  :smiley: 
Yeah, when I usually start out on the first cycle my mind has already wandered to some extent, so it distracts me a lot, eventually ending up that I spend too much time on one cycle.  :Cheeky: 
But there's always another night.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Thanks.  I just know that this technique has a ton of potential; so I'm not giving up on it just yet. 
> Yeah, when I usually start out on the first cycle my mind has already wandered to some extent, so it distracts me a lot, eventually ending up that I spend too much time on one cycle. 
> But there's always another night.



Sounds like you might be too sleepy when doing the exercise.  Usually people have the opposite problem, LOL.  Try going to bed earlier, perferrablly before 11.

----------


## RareCola

I forgot to post in this thread but I was able to achieve my first lucid dream on Friday, on only my second attempt at using this technique. It was amazing. 

I was unsuccessful last night, wasn't able to get back to sleep after performing the SSILD. Probably stayed awake too long. Though I'm going to keep trying this method and see if I can achieve any more!

Thanks for the tutorial <3

----------


## Sydney

> Sounds like you might be too sleepy when doing the exercise.  Usually people have the opposite problem, LOL.  Try going to bed earlier, perferrablly before 11.



Oh don't worry about that, I go to sleep pretty early  :wink2:  But yeah, you're probably right.

----------


## Despierto

> Oh don't worry about that, I go to sleep pretty early  But yeah, you're probably right.



Perhaps you can put the wbtb a little later if you're going to sleep early and still are very drowsy for your wbtb  ::D: 

Edit: It's all about adjustments xD

----------


## RareCola

> I was unsuccessful last night, wasn't able to get back to sleep after performing the SSILD. Probably stayed awake too long. Though I'm going to keep trying this method and see if I can achieve any more!



Turns out I had the same issue again last night. I think I'm going to have to try and get my WBTB earlier, because I just don't seem to be tired enough after performing the WBTB/SSILD to fall back asleep. Not sure how I did it for my previous lucid dream but I'm definitely doing something wrong now.

----------


## themoonman

I was wondering if you need to write a DJ to SSILD because when i wake up from a dream i will forget to write it and have forgotten my dream :/ any advise will be much appreciated

----------


## Sydney

Well, no success last night. I got up at 5 hours for my WBTB, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. Then fell asleep. :/

It's weird though; because in my successes (2), I always woke up after about 5 hours and 30 minutes for WBTB. But now whenever I try that, I fall asleep.
Any tips on how I can keep myself busy during WBTB?  :Cheeky:  I just sit on my bed for a couple of minutes, trying to keep myself awake lol.

----------


## RareCola

> Well, no success last night. I got up at 5 hours for my WBTB, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. Then fell asleep. :/
> 
> It's weird though; because in my successes (2), I always woke up after about 5 hours and 30 minutes for WBTB. But now whenever I try that, I fall asleep.
> Any tips on how I can keep myself busy during WBTB?  I just sit on my bed for a couple of minutes, trying to keep myself awake lol.



Try reading a book or these forums? Maybe joining the IRC chat?

----------


## Sydney

> Try reading a book or these forums? Maybe joining the IRC chat?



Although, I heard somewhere that staring at any kind of screen can hinder your chances of being able to fall back to sleep; but since this tech does make you sleepy, maybe it wouldn't hurt. I'll try it.  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Couldn't sleep well last night (only got about an hour after my WBTB to dream), and for some reason IRC chat wouldn't load on my phone (bad internet connection).

----------


## [email protected]

Guys I've been praciticng SSILD for like 15 days and stopped because it didn't work after trying 3-4 times for some reason. I claimed that SSILD is not placebo back in the thread, but yes... I think it's placebo, at least, half, IMO. If SSILD works for you consistently then it's not placebo...because I think you found your technique that fits you, and I've already had my own technique before SSILD - didn't stick to it for long time though - I started to use SSILD because I thought it was the solution for WILD during night...but then I had a dryspell -.-
so don't rely on SSILD too much, I think. few days ago I didn't care about SSILD and then I got instant lucid strangely, and I started to use my own technique again and it's working well...





> Well, no success last night. I got up at 5 hours for my WBTB, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. Then fell asleep. :/
> 
> It's weird though; because in my successes (2), I always woke up after about 5 hours and 30 minutes for WBTB. But now whenever I try that, I fall asleep.
> Any tips on how I can keep myself busy during WBTB?  I just sit on my bed for a couple of minutes, trying to keep myself awake lol.



I'm having the same problem with you! I fall alseep too fast xD you can pm me to discuss with this, we can figure it out.  :smiley: 
I don't really care about staying 10 min 30 min whatever the time we have to stay for WBTB - it's really annoying if you waste 30 min and just pass out. I stay up for just 2-5 seconds for WBTB. I think intent is the key  :smiley:

----------


## astralboy

This is an amazing Wild technique.
Thank you CosmicIron !

----------


## astralboy

I had LD this morning  ::D: 
(WBTB + SSILD)

----------


## Sydney

> I had LD this morning 
> (WBTB + SSILD)



That's awesome! Can you tell us how it went?  :smiley:

----------


## Taffy

> I was wondering if you need to write a DJ to SSILD because when i wake up from a dream i will forget to write it and have forgotten my dream :/ any advise will be much appreciated



Well, it's always good to have a DJ. If you have recall problems then it can't hurt.

----------


## Rubens

Sydney, in the second LD I had I used this technique, not only it.

Some moments before bed I tried to meditate, it was the first time I tried it in my life. I did it for about 20 minutes I think.

00:00 - I went to bed and did SSILD, repeated the cycles about 4 or 5 times, maybe I fell asleep while doing it.
05:00 - I woke up naturally after a dream, wrote in my DJ and tried a MILD, fell asleep and no LD yet.
06:10 - I woke up after another dream and stayed still in bed trying to recall all the details I could.
06:20 - My brother woke up to change of clothes and go to university, he took about 15 minutes to go and I payed attention on the noise he was doing to stay awake.
06:35 - My brother left and I started writing in my DJ the dream I just recalled.
06:55 - I finished writing and tried to sleep again.
08:20 - Voila  ::D:  I had my second LD. It was a DILD, "I was telling my sister that she was dreaming and after that I became lucid. I lost control of this dreams 1 minute after lucidity, had a FA but didn't notice that and woke up for real."

I don't know if the answer to my succes is only in the SSILD, but I was trying to have a LD for almost 2 months with no success and achieved in the first time of SSILD.

I will keep this strategy for a while to see if it continues to work  ::D:

----------


## McDreamy

Rubens, CosmicIron says in his original post that SSILD will not work if you do it before bed. You should do it during a WBTB.

----------


## Rubens

> Rubens, CosmicIron says in his original post that SSILD will not work if you do it before bed. You should do it during a WBTB.



I saw that, that's why I said that i'm not sure if the SSILD was the reason of my LD. But as I said, I was trying to have a LD for almost 2 months without success and got it in the first time I tried SSILD, and it came with the first False Awakening I experienced in all my life.

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## Sydney

Well that's really cool.  :smiley:  Keep up the good work!

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## astralboy

I think SSILD make me more aware in my dreams ... "Energy Flows Where Attention Goes" 

*I had a LD this morning too and my dreams were Vivid.*
When I'm in my dream I just know that something is strange (this morning I was walking very slowly, and yesterday I saw something strange and I've done a reality check...) 

Without SSILD I know that everything is strange but only when I wake up ^^

----------


## Rubens

I had my 3rd LD this morning *O*

I went to bed about 1:00 am anddid the SSILD before sleeping, cause it makes me sleep faster, usually I take more time thinking about random things.
I woke up about 6:00 am after a dream, tried to perform SSILD but slept, I think I slept 3 times trying to make a SSILD :O

About 9:00 o'clock I became lucid in a FA with no aparent reason, I didn't knew it was a FA, but I was lucid enough to lie on my bed and try a WILD (yes, during the FA :x). In few seconds I was in SP and going inside a dream. I'll put a better description of the dream in my DJ.

SSILD ROCKS !

I have to add that I'm praticing ADA, RCs during the day, and I always do the MILD too  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> I had my 3rd LD this morning *O*
> 
> I went to bed about 1:00 am anddid the SSILD before sleeping, cause it makes me sleep faster, usually I take more time thinking about random things.
> I woke up about 6:00 am after a dream, tried to perform SSILD but slept, I think I slept 3 times trying to make a SSILD :O
> 
> About 9:00 o'clock I became lucid in a FA with no aparent reason, I didn't knew it was a FA, but I was lucid enough to lie on my bed and try a WILD (yes, during the FA :x). In few seconds I was in SP and going inside a dream. I'll put a better description of the dream in my DJ.
> 
> SSILD ROCKS !
> 
> I have to add that I'm praticing ADA, RCs during the day, and I always do the MILD too



SSILD seems particularly good at producing FAs, and sometimes super-realistic FAs.  Thus it is a good idea to always do an RC or some form of WILD upon waking up... just like what you did  :smiley:

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## Rubens

> SSILD seems particularly good at producing FAs, and sometimes super-realistic FAs.  Thus it is a good idea to always do an RC or some form of WILD upon waking up... just like what you did



Yep, I never had FAs before praticing LD(at least never noticed I had), it's very crazy. But i'm learning to handle them  :smiley: 
The crazy part of SSILD I saw is that we become lucid with no reason, as you said. I was lucid but don't remember of doing an RC :O

----------


## DinoSawr

I almost had a lucid dream again from this technique, but my mind didn't fully realize the fact that I was dreaming. I considered it for a second, but the whole "Oh snap" phase never occurred where I would be completely lucid.

I only managed to do 2 cycles of the technique, and I entered the trance once or twice. I suppose I need to pull myself back a little bit more each time I catch myself drifting off?

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## Rubens

I never entered a trance from doing this technique, I do it and usually fall asleep, or after doing the 4-5 cycles I stop and try to sleep.
For example, I did the technique 6:00 and had the dream 8:30

----------


## Zaven

I've never had/remembered a FA and I want to experience one (for future reference) and I especially want to have an OBE. One question though. I've never had an OBE and only one LD, So is an OBE like a LD? What's the difference?

----------


## Rubens

For what I learned, a OBE is basically a LD that you are in your room, your house or walking trough a world that looks a lot like the real world.

Some people believe that they are really in the real world, but I don't belive that :S

Try SSILD in the middle of the night and you may experience one xD, I had my first in the first time of SSILD (even I wasn't lucid in it).

----------


## JeanLucGodard

I just had a LD using this technique too. My process is:

1) Drink PLENTY of water
2) Go to sleep quickly after drinking water
3) Wake up to use the bathroom
4) Record last dream in Dream Journal
5) Go on the internet for 15-20 minutes to ensure a small level of awakness 
6) Lie flat on my back, arms at my side, and eyes closed.
7) Do four cycles
8) Roll over to most comfortable sleeping position
9) Do four more cycles
10) Sleep

Granted, there are usually three things that prevent me from successfully completing the process often. The first being not waking up in the first place. The second being too tired after waking up to remember to even try (I just use the bathroom and flop back down on my bed and instantly pass out when this happens). The third being falling asleep while doing the cycles (this one happens the least). If these three things didn't happen and I did the process every night I feel as though I would be having LD's multiple times a week.

----------


## Sydney

> I just had a LD using this technique too. My process is:
> 
> 1) Drink PLENTY of water
> 2) Go to sleep quickly after drinking water
> 3) Wake up to use the bathroom
> 4) Record last dream in Dream Journal
> 5) Go on the internet for 15-20 minutes to ensure a small level of awakness 
> 6) Lie flat on my back, arms at my side, and eyes closed.
> 7) Do four cycles
> ...



Sounds like a good plan! I may try this tonight too.  ::D: 

Oh and, do you ever get _too_ awake after your on the internet? Because of the lights, etc.? Sometimes I just get on for a couple of minutes, then I'm unable to go back to sleep.

----------


## JeanLucGodard

If I'm on for longer than 30 minutes its possible, but since I stay on less than that it isn't. I might not return to sleep quickly but at most its probably 15 minutes ,which is from what I hear, average.

----------


## Bobblehat

> I claimed that SSILD is not placebo back in the thread, but yes... I think it's placebo, at least, half, IMO.



Has anyone checked out the Chinese forum the guy's talking about to see if the success stories are actually genuine? Anyone could come on this forum and claim they've developed a great technique on a forum in a language that nobody on the forum actually speaks.

----------


## BooHoo

I tried this technique this night and I got my fifth Lucid Dream. After a few cycles, my mind drifted away, but I couldn't sleep immediatly. But after I fell asleep, I became lucid out of the blue and  had a Lucid Dream, which was quite longer than my LDs before. I also have an good dream recall today.
But I got a question. During this cycles, I suddenly had a strange feeling, as if somebody would throw a ball or a pillow right in my face. Does anyone know, what this was?

----------


## CosmicIron

> Has anyone checked out the Chinese forum the guy's talking about to see if the success stories are actually genuine? Anyone could come on this forum and claim they've developed a great technique on a forum in a language that nobody on the forum actually speaks.



If you want you can check out this URL which collects the first-time success cases happened in the last 8 months or so (actually much less because the Zchinese search engine omits several months of data, ridiculously).  There are about 250 cases in that thread.  If we count the overall success cases then the number can go easily beyond thousands.  In fact, one of my students recorded over 200 LDs in less than 8 months  :smiley: 

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1481417265

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## Despierto

> Sounds like a good plan! I may try this tonight too. 
> 
> Oh and, do you ever get _too_ awake after your on the internet? Because of the lights, etc.? Sometimes I just get on for a couple of minutes, then I'm unable to go back to sleep.



Yesterdaynight I decided to surf on my iphone on my wbtb for like 5-10 minutes. 
Never again, ever. I didnt fall asleep and I was up all morning until school. Got 5 hours sleep. xD

----------


## astralboy

> I tried this technique this night and I got my fifth Lucid Dream. After a few cycles, my mind drifted away, but I couldn't sleep immediatly. But after I fell asleep, I became lucid out of the blue and  had a Lucid Dream, which was quite longer than my LDs before. I also have an good dream recall today.
> But I got a question. During this cycles, I suddenly had a strange feeling, as if somebody would throw a ball or a pillow right in my face. Does anyone know, what this was?



Great ! 

Maybe it was a SP or a FA...

----------


## Sydney

> Yesterdaynight I decided to surf on my iphone on my wbtb for like 5-10 minutes. 
> Never again, ever. I didnt fall asleep and I was up all morning until school. Got 5 hours sleep. xD



Yeah, that's what I did sort of. Hmm... I've always wondered what I could do during my WBTB that would allow me to be awake enough to remember to do the technique.. but be able to fall asleep easily. :/

----------


## Sydney

> If you want you can check out this URL which collects the first-time success cases happened in the last 8 months or so (actually much less because the Zchinese search engine omits several months of data, ridiculously).  There are about 250 cases in that thread.  If we count the overall success cases then the number can go easily beyond thousands.  In fact, one of my students recorded over 200 LDs in less than 8 months 
> 
> Ì«Ðþ³É¹¦°¸ÀýÊÕ¼¯_ÓîÖæÖ®Ìú°É_°Ù¶ÈÌù°É



I went to the site and Google Chrome automatically translated it for me. On the first post it translated something to "Do not water." I LOL'd.. I think this was supposed to be "Do not flame."

----------


## Despierto

> Guys I've been praciticng SSILD for like 15 days and stopped because it didn't work after trying 3-4 times for some reason. I claimed that SSILD is not placebo back in the thread, but yes... I think it's placebo, at least, half, IMO. If SSILD works for you consistently then it's not placebo...because I think you found your technique that fits you, and I've already had my own technique before SSILD - didn't stick to it for long time though - I started to use SSILD because I thought it was the solution for WILD during night...but then I had a dryspell -.-
> so don't rely on SSILD too much, I think. few days ago I didn't care about SSILD and then I got instant lucid strangely, and I started to use my own technique again and it's working well...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having the same problem with you! I fall alseep too fast xD you can pm me to discuss with this, we can figure it out. 
> I don't really care about staying 10 min 30 min whatever the time we have to stay for WBTB - it's really annoying if you waste 30 min and just pass out. I stay up for just 2-5 seconds for WBTB. I think intent is the key



I would just like to say that I've been using this technique for about 4 weeks and I can say that every night that I sleep somewhat early and manage to get perfect amount of activity on my wbtb, I almost guaranteed get lucid with this technique in either dild or deild. It just gives me great awareness. The quality of my lucids arent so good but I dont think it has to do with the technique, I just need to practice more stabilisation and awareness.

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## Bobblehat

This technique doesn't seem to work for me at all. Is it possible that I need to keep using the technique and it works in the long term? Or if I haven't had success after a week does it mean it will not work at all?

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## CosmicIron

> This technique doesn't seem to work for me at all. Is it possible that I need to keep using the technique and it works in the long term? Or if I haven't had success after a week does it mean it will not work at all?



Maybe if you can provide a detailed description on how you did the exercise I can help you diagnose  :Cheeky:

----------


## Bobblehat

> Maybe if you can provide a detailed description on how you did the exercise I can help you diagnose



I'm a diligent student - I'm sure I'm doing it properly as prescribed by you in your initial tutorial and in subsequent posts. I've also tweaked my approaches slightly; all of those tweaks I've experimented with have been described by you at some point in this thread. Is it time to give up or should I keep trying?

----------


## CosmicIron

> I'm a diligent student - I'm sure I'm doing it properly as prescribed by you in your initial tutorial and in subsequent posts. I've also tweaked my approaches slightly; all of those tweaks I've experimented with have been described by you at some point in this thread. Is it time to give up or should I keep trying?



I won't be able to answer your question until I know what exactly went wrong with your exercise.  I understand that you are following it diligently, but you have to understand that despite the numerous efforts spent on creating the SSILD technique (as well as everything else out there), lucid dreaming is still more art than science...

----------


## astralboy

> This technique doesn't seem to work for me at all. Is it possible that I need to keep using the technique and it works in the long term? Or if I haven't had success after a week does it mean it will not work at all?



Lol Bobblehat ... 
look at your signature "lucid dreaming is the hardest habit to make" if you believe that lucid dreaming is hard it will be for you ... it's like a placebo effect but in a negative way =) What you believe will be always true for you.

Try affirmations ... "lucid dreaming it's easy and natural for me" or when you do SSILD believe that it will work for you. 

Pessimism is not the answer :p

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## Bobblehat

Hi astralboy, 

My sig is just a bit of frivolity. 

I don't really buy into the "believe and it will happen" school because I don't believe in blind belief. It's not a tenable position. I have a kind of heirarchy of beliefs that - in my opinion - reflects reality:

I believe I will sleep tonight.
I believe I will dream.
I believe I will recall some dream events.
I believe my awareness in dreams will fluctuate, sometimes that awareness will rise to a level where I realise I'm dreaming. 

That heirarchy is positive, but realistic.

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## Sydney

I didn't get lucid but I just wanted to share what I did if you have any feedback CosmicIron. ^_^

I woke up for WBTB naturally after about 5 hours.
I then went to the restroom and got back in bed.
I lay still on my back and did about 4 cycles.
Then I rolled over onto my right side (it was hazy at this part.. I can't remember if I did more cycles while I was on my side or not).
I then fell asleep after a while.

Even though I think I do okay, I still don't get lucid.  :Sad: 
Do you think I could have "woken up" into an FA?
Because I remember waking up once or twice before my alarm went off to wake up in the morning.

----------


## Taffy

I keep forgetting to do this. I'll have to give it another try tonight.

----------


## astralboy

> Hi astralboy, 
> 
> My sig is just a bit of frivolity. 
> 
> I don't really buy into the "believe and it will happen" school because I don't believe in blind belief. It's not a tenable position. I have a kind of heirarchy of beliefs that - in my opinion - reflects reality:
> 
> I believe I will sleep tonight.
> I believe I will dream.
> I believe I will recall some dream events.
> ...




But you are the proof that your believes are real lol
Why being negative is more realistic ? :p 
Dont believe without proof other persons or religions but you can believe without doubt and without problem in yourself !!

All your beliefs about yourself are real, because beliefs will always be real for you (I know from astral, books and experience) Belifs make our world, our life.
If you believe that you are weak... you are weak.
If you believe that you are strong... you are strong.
If you believe that you can heal you... you will (placebo effect)
...

The day you will believe that lucid dreams are natural for you it will be! 


Dont believe me ... practice =)

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## SpaceCowboyDave

I am going to be trying this technique again tonight.  The first time I tried this technique months ago it worked, so hopefully it will pull through again!

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## LucidDreamGod

I think I'll give this a shot. I'm not one to try methods with no clear mechanism to their workings. But I have a theory, perhaps it turns on parts of the brain associated with interpreting sensory information , which dreams are made out of. I think the FA's would be caused because the brain loves to make dreams based around the information you took in right before falling asleep.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I didn't get lucid but I just wanted to share what I did if you have any feedback CosmicIron. ^_^
> 
> I woke up for WBTB naturally after about 5 hours.
> I then went to the restroom and got back in bed.
> I lay still on my back and did about 4 cycles.
> Then I rolled over onto my right side (it was hazy at this part.. I can't remember if I did more cycles while I was on my side or not).
> I then fell asleep after a while.
> 
> Even though I think I do okay, I still don't get lucid. 
> ...



Sydney, I'm sorry it's still not working for you  :Sad:  How long does it take for you to finish each cycle?  Were you doing each step quickly?  Maybe 15-20 seconds are not enough.  I suggest you try to extend the length of each step.  For example, while looking behind the eyelids, try to thoroughly examine the darkness and do not move on to the next step until you pick up something out of the dark no matter how trivial.  Same goes for listening -- do not move on to next until you can hear something inside your head...  Basically just forget about the 10-20 seconds requirement.  Do this for the first 4 cycles then ease up and allow yourself to drift into the trance with a couple of more relaxed cycles and then go to sleep.

----------


## Sydney

> Sydney, I'm sorry it's still not working for you  How long does it take for you to finish each cycle?  Were you doing each step quickly?  Maybe 15-20 seconds are not enough.  I suggest you try to extend the length of each step.  For example, while looking behind the eyelids, try to thoroughly examine the darkness and do not move on to the next step until you pick up something out of the dark no matter how trivial.  Same goes for listening -- do not move on to next until you can hear something inside your head...  Basically just forget about the 10-20 seconds requirement.  Do this for the first 4 cycles then ease up and allow yourself to drift into the trance with a couple of more relaxed cycles and then go to sleep.



Thank you CosmicIron  :smiley: 
Will try this tonight and see if I get any success. I will, though, because it's SSILD.  :wink2:

----------


## Bobblehat

> Sydney, I'm sorry it's still not working for you  How long does it take for you to finish each cycle?  Were you doing each step quickly?  Maybe 15-20 seconds are not enough.  I suggest you try to extend the length of each step.  For example, while looking behind the eyelids, try to thoroughly examine the darkness and do not move on to the next step until you pick up something out of the dark no matter how trivial.  Same goes for listening -- do not move on to next until you can hear something inside your head...  Basically just forget about the 10-20 seconds requirement.  Do this for the first 4 cycles then ease up and allow yourself to drift into the trance with a couple of more relaxed cycles and then go to sleep.



I think I will try that too.

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## Sydney

Hmm, that didn't work either.
Maybe I just need to try it some more  :smiley:  Will again tonight.

P.S.: When focusing on my body, what should I be "expecting" to feel?

Also I think I know what may be the problem. I never know when I'm in the trance. It doesn't feel like I'm in it when I stop doing the cycles and fall asleep.

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## CosmicIron

> Hmm, that didn't work either.
> Maybe I just need to try it some more  Will again tonight.
> 
> P.S.: When focusing on my body, what should I be "expecting" to feel?
> 
> Also I think I know what may be the problem. I never know when I'm in the trance. It doesn't feel like I'm in it when I stop doing the cycles and fall asleep.



Any out-of-normal sensations: heaviness, movement, numbness, itch, tingling, and etc. You can also actively imagine movement of certain body parts, for example, wiggling of fingers and toes, slow spinning of stomach, head sinking into pillow, and so on.  The reason I didn't include these in the technique is this sort of active techniques can sometimes cause people to lose sleep.  However, in your case it seems you can fall asleep pretty quickly so maybe you can give it a shot.

----------


## Sydney

> Any out-of-normal sensations: heaviness, movement, numbness, itch, tingling, and etc. You can also actively imagine movement of certain body parts, for example, wiggling of fingers and toes, slow spinning of stomach, head sinking into pillow, and so on.  The reason I didn't include these in the technique is this sort of active techniques can sometimes cause people to lose sleep.  However, in your case it seems you can fall asleep pretty quickly so maybe you can give it a shot.



Okay, thank you.  :smiley:  Still though, how do I know when I'm in the trance?

----------


## Appe96

This is exactly what i needed, a technique that gives me a mix of both lucids and obes! I'm so gonna try this one  :smiley:

----------


## JeanLucGodard

I had what I think was a success with this last night. I recognized I was dreaming and I did try to assert control (I tried to give myself a weapon and pick up cars with my mind) yet at the same time I never felt I was in control of myself. It was as if my brain was having me act in accordance to how it thinks I would act if I were to go lucid.

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## Spiraltails

Tried it today and failed :-) I was extremely tired when I went to take a nap. I did the repetitions but they kept me awake and I got interrupted a couple of times by outside noises and light rls. There was one moment where I felt my arm went a little numb just like in sp. But that went away and I fell asleep soon after it. Nothing happened.  ::lol:: 
Will try again tomorrow! Seems like it'll actually work!

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## Appe96

Failed tonight cuz I couldn't fall asleep. The reason was that the airforce flew over my house at 3AM -.-!

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## JeanLucGodard

2nd LD in three days with this tactic. Only reason I didn't have a third was because I slept all through the night and didn't wake up to try monday. I was doing the cycles and felt my body just feeling weird. I got up and did a reality check and sure enough I was dreaming. That was pretty freaky.

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## Sydney

> 2nd LD in three days with this tactic. Only reason I didn't have a third was because I slept all through the night and didn't wake up to try monday. I was doing the cycles and felt my body just feeling weird. I got up and did a reality check and sure enough I was dreaming. That was pretty freaky.



That's awesome!  ::D: 

How many cycles did you do before your body started feeling funny?

----------


## JeanLucGodard

I think I was on my fourth when I adjusted to my normal sleeping position. That's around when I believe I fell asleep. I guess I just started dreaming that I was still doing it.

----------


## Rubens

I didn't get any more LDs after that 2 with this technique :/
But I think I was lazy this last days, I will try it better tonight.

I tried last night but made only 2 or 3 cycles before falling asleep and something crazy happened.
I flew from my bed and fell in the ground near my bed. I heard my sister coming and asking me what happened, then I woke up again in my bed :O
I couldn't recognize that it was a FA :/ But it was kinda funny xD

----------


## SarcasticIndeed

Decided to get back to LD-ing. I'll start out with this method, seems simple enough  :tongue2:

----------


## CosmicIron

> I didn't get any more LDs after that 2 with this technique :/
> But I think I was lazy this last days, I will try it better tonight.
> 
> I tried last night but made only 2 or 3 cycles before falling asleep and something crazy happened.
> I flew from my bed and fell in the ground near my bed. I heard my sister coming and asking me what happened, then I woke up again in my bed :O
> I couldn't recognize that it was a FA :/ But it was kinda funny xD



That was both awsome and hilarious.  ::lol::

----------


## Spiraltails

"Try to pick up any colors, lights, or images" I thought it said "Try NOT to".
I did it this morning but it was hard for me not to pick up any images so I was fighting it a  little. Until I forgot it I started sort of dreaming about my repetitions but was still awake and that really felt like it was helping. I already had 8 hours of sleep so it wasn't working. I felt the same effect as I did the other day. Will try it again next time, maybe this afternoon!

----------


## Appe96

A quick question, so I don't do anything wrong :S When you do theese cycles do you focus on what you see, hear and feel at the same time or do you seperate them?

----------


## Despierto

> A quick question, so I don't do anything wrong :S When you do theese cycles do you focus on what you see, hear and feel at the same time or do you seperate them?



do them seperately but if you end up mixing them up upon being in the trance its fine.

----------


## Arilou

I think i will try this method, but can i try to do it right when i fall asleep or no? You dont suggest it i know but i get slightly scared waking up in the middle of the night so i dont try wbtb's  :Sad:

----------


## Sea07

> I think i will try this method, but can i try to do it right when i fall asleep or no? You dont suggest it i know but i get slightly scared waking up in the middle of the night so i dont try wbtb's



Good point, I am usually to tired to WBTB so CosmicIron, would it hurt to do this as we're falling asleep? I fall asleep using Isochronic tones so relaxing is no problem.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Good point, I am usually to tired to WBTB so CosmicIron, would it hurt to do this as we're falling asleep? I fall asleep using Isochronic tones so relaxing is no problem.



That wouldn't be very effective.  I suggest instead of a full-blown WBTB, just wake up after 5 hours of sleep, go to bathroom, then immediately go back to bed to do the exercise.

----------


## Arilou

Okay then what would be the best way to wake up for wbtb but without an alarm clock? Do mantras work?

----------


## Sydney

> Okay then what would be the best way to wake up for wbtb but without an alarm clock? Do mantras work?



You could try, "I will be aware when I wake up." Since you wake up at different times during the night and you don't realize it.
Hope that helps  :tongue2: 

Oh and CosmicIron, if I wanted to combine SSILD with WILD in one night, could I wake up at say, after 4 hours and 30 minutes, and then do SSILD? Then wake up later to do WBTB and WILD?

Do you think doing SSILD that early would work?
It's just a thought.

----------


## CosmicIron

> You could try, "I will be aware when I wake up." Since you wake up at different times during the night and you don't realize it.
> Hope that helps 
> 
> Oh and CosmicIron, if I wanted to combine SSILD with WILD in one night, could I wake up at say, after 4 hours and 30 minutes, and then do SSILD? Then wake up later to do WBTB and WILD?
> 
> Do you think doing SSILD that early would work?
> It's just a thought.



Based on the feedback I've seen from many users, the answer is yes.

----------


## Sydney

> Based on the feedback I've seen from many users, the answer is yes.



Sweet!

Got any good tips on waking up that early besides an alarm? xD
Actually instead of 4 hours and 30 minutes I was thinking more like 4 hours.

----------


## JeanLucGodard

Four hours is what I do. Gives you more room for error, in case your alarm doesn't snap you out immediately.

----------


## Sea07

@CosmicIron
Alright, thanks.
@Sydney
Do you want to wake up without an alarm after four hours sleep? You could try mantras, or drink heaps of water before you sleep (:

----------


## Sydney

> @CosmicIron
> Alright, thanks.
> @Sydney
> Do you want to wake up without an alarm after four hours sleep? You could try mantras, or drink heaps of water before you sleep (:



Ok, will do.  :smiley: 
It seem like I keep waking up later and later in my sleep naturally, sometimes not even waking up at all! I think the problem is though that I don't drink as much water as I should.  :tongue2:

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## dbee

I woke up at 3:30am and 4:30am last night, the latter was planned on an alarm. I can't remember which it was on.. but as I am wrtiting this now I think it was the second time I tried this technique. In fact, yes. The first time I just tried a WBTB because I went to the toilet and to something else for 5 mins and went back to bed. Woke up at 4:30 and tried this - I think I did 3/4 cycles and then had a lucid dream. Well, I don't remember where is started and finished or how I realised but .. _it was as if, I dreamed that I had a lucid dream?_ Either way, I distinctly remember being able to jump really high and flying, both of which I did purposefully, before attempting an succeeding to change the landscape to a beautiful american sunny suburb. Like in hollywood 90210 or something.

So I'll try it again tonight. 

I'm going to mix it with a MILD and DILD technique with this also. Doing 10+ reality checks a day and then going to bed relaxed saying 'I will remember my dreams'. Then waking up via alarm at 4:30 and trying this technique.

----------


## Sea07

@Sydney
Righto, yeah a full bladder will do wonders for waking you up.

----------


## dbee

I tried again last night and found that nothing happened. I'm pretty sure it's because I wasn't tired. I had already slept around 3 hours in the mid afternoon, and went to bed an hour earlier than usual. I know it because I SHOT out of bed to turn off my WBTB alarm. Anyway, I did around 3 cycles, turned on my side and didn't even fall asleep for around 20 minutes. So AFAIK all is done is just wake my self up more. I think I need to try it when I could wake up and literally fall asleep straight away, and try to keep myself awake to do a couple of cycles.

----------


## JeanLucGodard

Careful with the water. I used to do that and something that happened too often was drinking so much it would interrupt my REM cycle so instead of waking up nicely and with some energy I would wake up completely smashed and after using the bathroom I would pass out immediately.

----------


## Sea07

@jeanLucGodard
Ah, good point. That wouldn't be helpful.

----------


## dakotahnok

*It seems like this technique works at first... But then stops working. Sydney is a perfect example. I really feel like you guys should spend time elsewhere on proven  techniques. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just my two cents.*

----------


## RareCola

> It seems like this technique works at first... But then stops working. Sydney is a perfect example. I really feel like you guys should spend time elsewhere on _proven_  techniques. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just my two cents.



This is why I said it's more of a placebo, it seems that way with everyone, including myself.

I believe this technique would work properly under one circumstance, when WILDing, but then it's not really fair to call it a new technique at that point.

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by RareCola


This is why I said it's more of a placebo, it seems that way with everyone, including myself.

I believe this technique would work properly under one circumstance, when WILDing, but then it's not really fair to call it a new technique at that point.



If you read a few pages back you will see that I said the same thing.*

----------


## Bobblehat

It has never worked for me. At first my dream recall and dream "continuity" went up a great amount, then went back to normal, even when using the technique. 

However, CosmicIron did say that his stats show that the technique continues to work in the long run, and doesn't fizzle out like some techniques.

----------


## Sydney

I've been attempting this for around 2 months or so, with only 2 successes. But, I have faith in this technique since it brought so many others continuing success.
I could just be doing it wrong, or not having enough will to do it. But I still have faith in SSILD.

I will be attempting SSILD earlier on in the night, maybe after four hours or so, and then waking up for a WBTB an hour and a half later, to WILD.
So I still have SSILD, but also am working on my WILD attempts as well.
I will continue attempting for as long as I can until I know that it doesn't work for me.

----------


## Sydney

Whoa.. double post.

----------


## CosmicIron

> It seems like this technique works at first... But then stops working. Sydney is a perfect example. I really feel like you guys should spend time elsewhere on _proven_  techniques. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just my two cents.



It has continued to work for me, and hundreds maybe thousands of other people. Of course,  as with every other techniques, this is not meant to be a recipe for guaranteed success, especially that many people may not even be doing it correctly.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I've been attempting this for around 2 months or so, with only 2 successes. But, I have faith in this technique since it brought so many others continuing success.
> I could just be doing it wrong, or not having enough will to do it. But I still have faith in SSILD.
> 
> I will be attempting SSILD earlier on in the night, maybe after four hours or so, and then waking up for a WBTB an hour and a half later, to WILD.
> So I still have SSILD, but also am working on my WILD attempts as well.
> I will continue attempting for as long as I can until I know that it doesn't work for me.



Thank you for having faith  :smiley:  One thing that occurs to me -- could it be that you were missing on the false awakenings?  With SSILD it is very easy to produce super-realistic false awakenings.  Therefore, I suggest you do an RC every time you wake up after doing SSILD, no matter how certain you think you are awake!  BTW, are you still falling asleep quickly in middle of the exercise?

----------


## Sydney

> Thank you for having faith  One thing that occurs to me -- could it be that you were missing on the false awakenings?  With SSILD it is very easy to produce super-realistic false awakenings.  Therefore, I suggest you do an RC every time you wake up after doing SSILD, no matter how certain you think you are awake!  BTW, are you still falling asleep quickly in middle of the exercise?



Your welcome.  :smiley: 
You know, now that I think about it, I may have missed some very realistic false awakenings. I usually do an RC after every time I wake up, but sometimes I do forget!
I've been kinda slacking on attempting SSILD this week - was so tired during the week I never woke up mostly. :/ Well mostly, I wake up for WBTB, do SSILD, fall asleep - and then before I know it, my alarm shocks me awake for the morning.

Do you think my recall could have something to do with it?
I sometimes just forget about SSILD while doing it, making my mind wander and then I fall asleep. In other cases, I can't fall asleep afterwards.

----------


## LuMikkel

After doing these cycles, am I able to switch to a different position in bed?

----------


## CosmicIron

> After doing these cycles, am I able to switch to a different position in bed?



Yes, you should switch to a more comfortable position and try to fall asleep ASAP.

----------


## JeanLucGodard

Yes, you are. That's what you are supposed to do.

Last week every time I tried the method I had one. This week I've been screwing up every night on the WBTB part so I haven't had one, but I have great faith in the method. A friend I recommended it too (a complete LD noob, just started trying) had he first LD on her second try with this.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Your welcome. 
> You know, now that I think about it, I may have missed some very realistic false awakenings. I usually do an RC after every time I wake up, but sometimes I do forget!
> I've been kinda slacking on attempting SSILD this week - was so tired during the week I never woke up mostly. :/ Well mostly, I wake up for WBTB, do SSILD, fall asleep - and then before I know it, my alarm shocks me awake for the morning.
> 
> Do you think my recall could have something to do with it?
> I sometimes just forget about SSILD while doing it, making my mind wander and then I fall asleep. In other cases, I can't fall asleep afterwards.



You need to have more rest.  Attempting LDs without being fully rested often will yield minimal result... regardless of the technique.  I suggest you take a break.  Go to bed earlier, and forget about any exercise.  Do this for a couple of days then resume the exercise.  Also you might want to delay your WBTB... maybe to 6 hours.

----------


## Sydney

Okay  :smiley:  I'll rest for a couple of days and see how it goes.

----------


## Shaman1982

I have translated this method into Slovak language and post it on Slovak LD/OBE forum. One of the guys who tried it, had 5 LD's on the first try and 3 LD's on the second. Between this 2 tries he also had one OBE where he was first time in one year of trying able to fly out of his house and had a beautiful experience.

Another one tried it and experienced SP for the first time in his life, but got too excited and couldn't do too much about it and fell into sleep.

Third one tried it and had LD.

Another two tried it, one was able to see some lights during the cycles and wasn't sure what to do with it and after all didn't get lucid and the last one had no success as well.

I have tried it for the first time, but i was too sleepy and didn't even finished my first cycle and fell to sleep. Than i didn't tried it any more because i going to sleep too late and therefor i have no much time to do it. I have to start to go sleep much earlier.

Guys are saying that this is one of the best methods they have ever tried.

----------


## Sydney

> I have translated this method into Slovak language and post it on Slovak LD/OBE forum. One of the guys who tried it, had 5 LD's on the first try and 3 LD's on the second. Between this 2 tries he also had one OBE where he was first time in one year of trying able to fly out of his house and had a beautiful experience.
> 
> Another one tried it and experienced SP for the first time in his life, but got too excited and couldn't do too much about it and fell into sleep.
> 
> Third one tried it and had LD.
> 
> Another two tried it, one was able to see some lights during the cycles and wasn't sure what to do with it and after all didn't get lucid and the last one had no success as well.
> 
> I have tried it for the first time, but i was too sleepy and didn't even finished my first cycle and fell to sleep. Than i didn't tried it any more because i going to sleep too late and therefor i have no much time to do it. I have to start to go sleep much earlier.
> ...



That's great for them!  ::D:  And I hope they will have continuing success! ^^

P.S. What's the forum called?

----------


## Shaman1982

It's 3oko.sk it would be translated as 3th eye.sk  :smiley:

----------


## Rubens

3 hours ago I had the greater lucid dream I ever had with this technique  ::D: 
It lasted about 25 minutes and I had full lucidity and a lot of control, I got to do everything I tried to.

I didn't use it only, I'm always doing RC's, auto-suggestion before sleep and MILD.

@Sydney: Try it:
-After about 6 hours of sleep you wake up, try to recall the last dream and write it in your DJ
-Get up and drink some water and go to the bathroom, at least in the bathroom, try to turn a light on, it will make you a little less sleepy and you will have a better attention while doing SSILD.
-Go back do bed and do the cycles, don't expect to see, hear of feel anything (I almost never do and it works for me), actually don't think anything, just pay attention on the sense, one after each other.
-Don't do more than 4 or 5 cycles even if you don't notice anything different, it may frustrate you. Do the 5 cycles and believe it will work  :smiley: 
-Don't forget of doing RC's after "waking up". In the dream I had today I looked at my hand 3 times and they were normal, but the digital clocks were working strange and I realized it was a dream.

Hope it will work for you  ::D:

----------


## xChris12

I sleep on the same bed as my brother, so I read this and decided to try it about an hour ago it is now 7 PM. I would focus on seeing the darkness in my eyelids, and I couldn't see anything. So after a bit I moved to my hearing, and all I can hear is the fan turned on I don't know if this is good or bad to have that fan on. Then, I focused on all the sensations and felt nothing. I tried looking through my eye lids and as I am doing this I don't notice it but I am slowly beginning to daydream without even noticing. When this happens I can see images that intensify and I can hear imaginary audio while going deeper into relaxation. I eventually reach my 4th and my brother moves around.. I didn't read the last step so I didn't know there can not be any distractions, maybe that's why I can never fall asleep easily. Eventually, I think to myself that I have done enough find a comfortable position on the left side of my body and drift away. Next thing I know I am in a different dream that I was trying to go back into but didn't work. I watched some videos of Michael Jackson inspired dances and I think this had an effect on my dream. We are in a talent show and there is an enormous crowd cheering and clapping. Everyone does the same routine but differently but the audience doesn't seem to care. Eventually, my partner and I go on stage and we do a real quick move I went to the left and slid a little and he went to the right. Biggest applaud I heard and the host of the show ask how did we learn to do that and my partner said that it wasn't planned. Huge applause and then the dream ends  :Fame: .

----------


## Fedor

I am very eager to try this method of an ld.  But my concern is I don't want to have an out of body experience it is said that those are just lucid dreams as well but like SLEEP PARALYSIS I like to avoid such things at all cost.  Is there any way of making sure I have either a false awakening or just going lucid in my dream?  And I have never been much of a reality check person how do I go lucid after false awakening?

----------


## Rubens

Fedor, try to make RC's at least when you wake up and you will catch the FA's if they happen.

I had only few LD's and in the one I had yesterday I experienced a FA. 
Basically I "woke up" with a very loud noise coming from out of my room, I looked at my hands about 3 times and they were normal, I almost gave up on thinking that that was a dream, but I saw two digital clocks, and they were different from each other, it made me completely lucid. I flew up trough the ceiling and when I got out I was in a completely different place.

I experienced "Sleep Paralys" two times with this technique, but they weren't real, I just dreamed I was having SP.

Go on and try this technique, its really awessome and almost gave me another LD this morning.

----------


## Sydney

That's awesome Rubens!  ::D:  okay, I'll try what you did. I think I'm waking up way too early  :tongue2: 
Will post the results tomorrow!

----------


## Sydney

That's awesome Rubens!  ::D:  okay, I'll try what you did. I think I'm waking up way too early  :tongue2: 
Will post the results tomorrow!

Oops double post!

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## Rubens

Yes, maybe it is the problem, the times I tried after about 4 or 5 hours of sleep didnt give good results.

The times that gave results were when I did just like I told you.
I sleep 00:00, wake up 6:00 with my brother waking up to go to college, take 30 minutes to write my dreams in the DJ, do the cycles and get the LD about 7:30-8:00 am

I really hope and believe it will work for you. It gave me a semi-lucid today.

----------


## Bobblehat

I tried this last night. I did several cycles. Several times I forgot where I was and either carried on or started again. On my 5th cycle at the 'bodily awareness' stage I had - for just a fraction of a second - a sudden dip in my conscious. I came out of quickly and hoped it was a FA, but RC showed it wasn't. Still waiting for my first success with SSILD.

Don't want to be too negative, but if there's a new technique out that works for 99% of people, I'm always in the frickin 1% it doesn't work for.  ::roll::

----------


## Rubens

But you know that SSILD won't give you a LD just after doing the cycles right ?
You do them and go to sleep normally and the LD will come.
And don't forget of being persistent in RCing after waking up, as I said before, in the last FA that I experienced I did the "look at hand" RC three times and it didn't work, only when I looked at a digital clock I could realize I was dreaming.

----------


## Bobblehat

> But you know that SSILD won't give you a LD just after doing the cycles right ?
> .



Yup.

I'll be sure to make a habit of RCing to catch FAs.

----------


## Sydney

I woke up after 6 hours and found out I was WAY too tired to keep my awareness up.
Even though I went to the restroom with the light on, my eyes were soo heavy. I was nodding off to sleep right there lol.
I think it's because I took some Benadryl right before I went to bed.
I was laying there in bed constantly tossing and turning before I knew what I was doing, and fell asleep.  :tongue2:

----------


## Rubens

Well, I love this technique xD

Had another one today, a little short because I believe it was in the end of the REM period and I also got a little excited (and scared for a moment).

----------


## Sydney

> Well, I love this technique xD
> 
> Had another one today, a little short because I believe it was in the end of the REM period and I also got a little excited (and scared for a moment).



That's awesome!  ::D: 

Last night I didn't wake up at all. I really have to work on waking up naturally.. do you wake up by an alarm, Rubens?

----------


## Rubens

Somedays yes Sydney, my brother studies at the morning and his alarm wakes me up too about 6:20 am(we sleep in the same room).
But my body just accustomed to waking up after the dreams and I always notice that I woke up.
I think that there is no problem with waking up by alarms to this technique, but if I don't do anything before starting the cycles I can't pay attention and fall back to sleep too short.

Next time you try, try to recall the last dream and write it in your DJ before doing the cycles, it will make you more aware while doing the cycles.

----------


## Sydney

> Next time you try, try to recall the last dream and write it in your DJ before doing the cycles, it will make you more aware while doing the cycles.



Alright, will do.
I have some time on my hands in the morning so I can sleep (and hopefully wake up before 6 hours) longer and thus have more chances for SSILD.  ::D: 
Not sure how it works later in sleeping though.

----------


## Bakuryu

Here's my (positive) experience with this:

It seems that doing it "lazily" like the OP mentions seems to be quite important.

When I first started trying this I focused too much on it, like I would when meditating. After a few nights I started trying it differently, cycled without thinking too much about it, had an LD after falling asleep, noticing that the pants I was wearing aren't right, I was wearing something else before, I assume I was able to notice this because of SSILD.
Yesterday and today I had 4 LDs (2 yesterday, 2 today) after SSILDing, when cycling, my mind would wander into other random thoughts, and I just calmly started cycling again when noticing so. I think the goal here is to be lazy indeed, don't be afraid if your mind starts wandering into random thoughts, but your mind just has to calmly be reminded to cycle from time to time, without thinking too much about it. Some cycles were even interrupted by random thoughts since I was doing it so lazily. I think this works because after a while your mind will "wander" except that wander is actually a dream and when you remember to cycle again, you realize you are dreaming; that's how it feels to me at least.

Oh also, I WBTB before SSILDing. (I always WBTB for anything)

----------


## shaun95

Want to get back into Lucid dreaming , havent had time to concentrate on it due to school but with summer here now i have plenty of time  :smiley:  . I am intruiged by this method , going to give it a few shots this week. Wish me luck!

----------


## Sydney

I've been waking up after 6 hours, but I'm falling asleep too quickly when I do SSILD. It's weird, because when I used to wake up after 5 hours of sleep to do SSILD, I was pretty awake through the whole thing, and had trouble getting _back_ to sleep.

But now since I'm waking up after 6 hours, I can barely stay awake for at least one cycle! It's like it's reversed.
I'll see what I can do tonight.

----------


## Rubens

You fall asleep fast even after writing in your DJ and going to the kitchen to drink some water ?

----------


## LuMikkel

> You fall asleep fast even after writing in your DJ and going to the kitchen to drink some water ?



Eating/drinking makes it harder for me to fall asleep. Don't know if it counts for water though. Writing in your dream journal then going back to bed should be a good idea though.

----------


## Rubens

When I say drinking water, I just want to say that would be good to stand up and walk to the kitchen, just to "wake up more".
I always do the 3 things, write in my DJ, go to the kitchen and go to the bathroom, even if I'm not thirsty, just to do something that will wake me up more.

----------


## Sydney

Okay, I'll try that. What I have been doing is occasionally writing in my DJ if I remember anything, and using the bathroom. Maybe walking more will help keep me awake.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I've been waking up after 6 hours, but I'm falling asleep too quickly when I do SSILD. It's weird, because when I used to wake up after 5 hours of sleep to do SSILD, I was pretty awake through the whole thing, and had trouble getting _back_ to sleep.
> 
> But now since I'm waking up after 6 hours, I can barely stay awake for at least one cycle! It's like it's reversed.
> I'll see what I can do tonight.



That indeed is weird... how long do you stay awake before attempting the exercise?  Also, while doing the exercise you may want to use a position that's different from your normal one.

----------


## Marciano999

Hello... i just read all the pages on this thread, and this seems to be a good technique. However, i just have a question, since i have to do in a relaxed manner, lazily and without any rational thoughts, could i use some relaxing music? because it will help me to relax and also helps my mind to wander. Im asking this also because i kind(in some way) use this technique but for meditation, but only focusing in my breath and my parts of my body. When i do this i feel heaviness and maybe some tingling. Thanks

----------


## Sydney

> That indeed is weird... how long do you stay awake before attempting the exercise?  Also, while doing the exercise you may want to use a position that's different from your normal one.



Usually 5 - 10 minutes. Okay.  :smiley: 
Well last night I got up at 6 hours again, and stayed up for 10 minutes. (DJing)
Then I got back in bed and barely did one cycle before forgetting about it and falling asleep.
But afterwards I did have a dream in where I questioned my reality, but it was too realistic, so it failed. :/

----------


## Rubens

It's already a start  ::D: 

The first and maybe the second I have using this technique was like that too. Continue to try this way and Im sure it will give good results.

----------


## Sydney

Has anyone here done the cycles and actually have woken up in SP?
Just wondering  :tongue2:

----------


## Rubens

Lets say more or less xD

The time when it happened was very simple to go to a dream, just by imagining a scenario.
Lucid but naive

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by CosmicIron


It has continued to work for me, and hundreds maybe thousands of other people. Of course,  as with every other techniques, this is not meant to be a recipe for guaranteed success, especially that many people may not even be doing it correctly.



I would love to know where you found THOUSANDS of participants. I found the tutorial on ld4all, I promise you that they don't have thousands of active members. If you are going to lie, at least make it believable.*

----------


## Sydney

Last night, the same thing happened when I did a WBTB. Only, I almost fully did one cycle lol  :tongue2:  When I laid down back in bed, it like, hurt to focus on my eyes. Like my eyes were so tired they just wanted to "drop and lay there". It was like the focus was making me even more tired, wanting to stop and go to sleep.

I knew I didn't have a lot of time to dream, like an hour, but that didn't stop me. I think I woke up after SSILD, with 30 minutes left. I was determined to fall back to sleep. So I kinda did, but something happened and I came back to focus. My ears started ringing (Well, it sounded like blood rushing to my ears only 10x intensified) for about a minute or so. Afterwards, I waited, but nothing else happened. So I moved. It didn't even feel like I was in SP at all. No FA either.

What could that have been?

----------


## CosmicIron

> I would love to know where you found THOUSANDS of participants. I found the tutorial on ld4all, I promise you that they don't have thousands of active members. If you are going to lie, at least make it believable.



That, sir, is both nasty and ignorant.  If you read my original post, it is clearly stated that the method was developed and tested on the Chinese forum (Baidu Tieba to be clear) which has over 60,000 active participants.  LD4all is where I first posted the English version of the technique, and that was nearly a year since the technique was developed and deployed.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Last night, the same thing happened when I did a WBTB. Only, I almost fully did one cycle lol  When I laid down back in bed, it like, hurt to focus on my eyes. Like my eyes were so tired they just wanted to "drop and lay there". It was like the focus was making me even more tired, wanting to stop and go to sleep.
> 
> I knew I didn't have a lot of time to dream, like an hour, but that didn't stop me. I think I woke up after SSILD, with 30 minutes left. I was determined to fall back to sleep. So I kinda did, but something happened and I came back to focus. My ears started ringing (Well, it sounded like blood rushing to my ears only 10x intensified) for about a minute or so. Afterwards, I waited, but nothing else happened. So I moved. It didn't even feel like I was in SP at all. No FA either.
> 
> What could that have been?



You nearly succeeded.  Next time when that happens just stay calm and do a nose pinching RC.  Chances are you will find yourself in a dream.

----------


## Sydney

> You nearly succeeded.  Next time when that happens just stay calm and do a nose pinching RC.  Chances are you will find yourself in a dream.



Okay  ::D:  I will try to stay calm next time too. I remember when hearing it, I was like, "Oh gosh. Oh gosh, oh gosh!"
So what you're saying is to just wait, right? I wasn't in SP I don't think, so I don't know what that was.  :Uhm:

----------


## CosmicIron

> Okay  I will try to stay calm next time too. I remember when hearing it, I was like, "Oh gosh. Oh gosh, oh gosh!"
> So what you're saying is to just wait, right? I wasn't in SP I don't think, so I don't know what that was.



It's not SP.  It's an FA.  Best way to deal with it is to do an RC and get up, or you can try to mentally increase the intensity of the sound/image.  The later method may not work if you get too excited  :smiley:

----------


## Sydney

Oh really?  ::o: 

So maybe I just missed it?
Because pretty much right after it happened, I got up and RCed; telling me that I was awake.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Oh really? 
> 
> So maybe I just missed it?
> Because pretty much right after it happened, I got up and RCed; telling me that I was awake.



This happens sometime. As you get excited, you shift from an FA to reality in a seamless fashion. Anyway, you were really close! Good luck!  :smiley:

----------


## Rubens

Good to know xD It happened to me a lot of times and I gave up and went back to sleep :/

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by CosmicIron


That, sir, is both nasty and ignorant.  If you read my original post, it is clearly stated that the method was developed and tested on the Chinese forum (Baidu Tieba to be clear) which has over 60,000 active participants.  LD4all is where I first posted the English version of the technique, and that was nearly a year since the technique was developed and deployed.



I think your being a little dramatic "nasty". Also i looked up that site and it doesnt seem to exist. Well the site does exist, but doesnt seem to involve lucid dreaming. Could you provide a link to one of your articles there? I would think that with thousands of test subjects you would ubderstand that this is a placebo. You need to not get so defensive over something that a person on the internet said. Especially when it wasnt that bad.*

----------


## CosmicIron

> I think your being a little dramatic "nasty". Also i looked up that site and it doesnt seem to exist. Well the site does exist, but doesnt seem to involve lucid dreaming. Could you provide a link to one of your articles there? I would think that with thousands of test subjects you would ubderstand that this is a placebo. You need to not get so defensive over something that a person on the internet said. Especially when it wasnt that bad.



Then I think your being a little dramatic too with your accusation of me "lying".  The site "tieba" is a huge platform for many smaller sub-forums.  In order to go to the lucid dreaming site you need to enter the word "Lucid Dream" (in Chinese) in their search window.  If you can read Chinese you are welcome to take a look at this link: Ì«Ðþ³É¹¦°¸ÀýÊÕ¼¯_ÓîÖæÖ®Ìú°É_°Ù¶ÈÌù°É.  This is where I collected more than 200 unique success stories of using SSILD, and it is only a small subset of the actual cases.  I do not understand why you said "with thousands of test subjects you would ubderstand that this is a placebo".  A placebo that is proven to work among a large number of people, over a long period of time, again and again?  I'm sorry, do we understand the word "placebo" THAT differently?

----------


## DinoSawr

> I think your being a little dramatic "nasty". Also i looked up that site and it doesnt seem to exist. Well the site does exist, but doesnt seem to involve lucid dreaming. Could you provide a link to one of your articles there? I would think that with thousands of test subjects you would ubderstand that this is a placebo. You need to not get so defensive over something that a person on the internet said. Especially when it wasnt that bad.



It's not a placebo. If you take some time to think about why and how it works, you can see underlying similarities with the MILD and even WILD techniques. I do not understand why you are so quick to declare something null when clearly it has worked for many. Even if you disagree with the technique, I would say you are being unnecessarily aggressive and you are only wasting your time by posting in the first place. You've made your beliefs clear and known, but the rest of us are not interested in what you have to say.

----------


## dakotahnok

*Oh my god. Either the people on that forum are complete babbling idiots or google translate just sucks. Either way i still dont believe that this is a solid technique. Im afraid there isnt going to be much of a constructive argument since you believe so much in it. Im sorry that you disagree. Also I'm sorry I'm "nasty". I didn't mean for my post to come off that way. I would hate for you to see when I'm angry. 








 Originally Posted by DinoSawr


It's not a placebo. If you take some time to think about why and how it works, you can see underlying similarities with the MILD and even WILD techniques. I do not understand why you are so quick to declare something null when clearly it has worked for many. Even if you disagree with the technique, I would say you are being unnecessarily aggressive and you are only wasting your time by posting in the first place. You've made your beliefs clear and known, but the rest of us are not interested in what you have to say.



Clearly worked for so many? You need to re-read this thread... And know what a placebo is. A placebo can be powerful, and can give you lucid dreams. But it's not a technique, it's just your mind tricking itself into thinking it will work. Mind over matter? Yes it has worked for a few people, but not consistently. At least not with English speaking people.  

I will apologize for calling him out as a liar. I have nothing to back myself up. I should have evidence before accusing someone. But I still feel like he isn't being truthful, is that my fault? 

Your post is only directed at me and not the thread itself. So youre just being hypocritical by telling me "I'm wasting my time". Well I came here to talk about lucid dreaming, how's that wasting my time?






			
				but the rest of us are not interested in what you have to say.
			
		


And you have the right to speak on behalf of everyone? Wow, if I knew you had that much power I wouldn't have even attempted this argument.*

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## CosmicIron

> Oh my god. Either the people on that forum are complete babbling idiots or google translate just sucks. Either way i still dont believe that this is a solid technique. .



You are free to believe or not believe in something.  However, calling people idiots like that will only discredit you.  You asked for evidence so I gave that to you -- more than 200 of them, collected in only a few months; yet again you accuse me of being untruthful without providing any explanation.  To me, that IS "nasty".

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## Shaman1982

dakotahnok - if you don't like this technique, than don't bother to use it, or write about it. I don't really care if there was a million people who had success or if there was only one, the point is, if it works for you and if it doesn't, than we have CosmicIron (and others) here with us who is kind enough to provide guiding and good advices for us, we write about it here just because we like it and want to use it right way.

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## shaun95

I've given this method a go using wbtb the last 3 nights with no success :'( , although i had a FA yesterday but im not sure if that has anything to do with this method. One question , I wear a face mask while sleeping so the sunlight doesn't wake me up in the morning , will that affect this method at all or is it ok to keep wearing it?

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## CosmicIron

> I've given this method a go using wbtb the last 3 nights with no success :'( , although i had a FA yesterday but im not sure if that has anything to do with this method. One question , I wear a face mask while sleeping so the sunlight doesn't wake me up in the morning , will that affect this method at all or is it ok to keep wearing it?



Some people on our forum also use sleep mask and ear plugs, and they seem to work fine.  As for FA I can't say for sure if it is caused by SSILD, but the SSILD technique indeed seems very good at generating them, sometimes super realistic ones.  Thus, whenever you wake up from doing SSILD you should remember to do an RC.  BTW, did you have trouble sleep after doing the exercise, or you fell asleep quickly in middle of it?

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## shaun95

I find it hard to concentrate on the 3 steps and yes , I find it a little bit difficult to fall back to sleep after attempting SSILD. Any tips?

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## Sydney

So last night I got the same result - I woke up after about an hour (after WBTB) and decided to fall asleep again so that I would get something out of SSILD. I did, and then I woke up in what felt like this weird feeling. I can't remember exactly the feeling, but I felt kinda heavy, and maybe I felt small vibrations. Not sure though.

This lasted about 10 seconds. I didn't want to move because I thought it was real SP, and I could have waited for a DEILD! But just like yesterday night, after the 10 seconds or so, it stopped. I'm not sure if I "fell asleep" or "woke up", but I"m pretty sure it was the latter. It was probably an FA.

It seems like I'm getting closer!  :tongue2:  I just gotta realize those tricky FAs.

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## CosmicIron

> So last night I got the same result - I woke up after about an hour (after WBTB) and decided to fall asleep again so that I would get something out of SSILD. I did, and then I woke up in what felt like this weird feeling. I can't remember exactly the feeling, but I felt kinda heavy, and maybe I felt small vibrations. Not sure though.
> 
> This lasted about 10 seconds. I didn't want to move because I thought it was real SP, and I could have waited for a DEILD! But just like yesterday night, after the 10 seconds or so, it stopped. I'm not sure if I "fell asleep" or "woke up", but I"m pretty sure it was the latter. It was probably an FA.
> 
> It seems like I'm getting closer!  I just gotta realize those tricky FAs.



One way to counter this kind of situation is to always do another round of SSILD.  If you are in an FA, chances are those sensations -- visuals, sounds, and body movements will become pronounced almost immediately.

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## CosmicIron

> I find it hard to concentrate on the 3 steps and yes , I find it a little bit difficult to fall back to sleep after attempting SSILD. Any tips?



Actually, finding it hard to concentrate is THE PREFERRED WAY to do the exercise.  You should allow your mind to drift.  Trying to concentrate will only keep you awake, and cause loss of sleeps afterward.

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## shaun95

so i should just allow my mind to drift and keep bringing it back to do the exercise?

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## CosmicIron

> so i should just allow my mind to drift and keep bringing it back to do the exercise?



 Exactly

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## JeanLucGodard

Woo! Great success. I followed CosmicIron's advice to let my mind drift (usually I killed whatever direction my mind was going) and did the technique. It took me awhile to go to sleep. I'm talking about at least a half hour, but when it happened I didn't notice because my dream started with me lying in bed trying to sleep and giving up. I go to walk my dog and despite it supposedly being 7AM it looks more like 8AM. I notice this and do a reality check and bam, I realize I'm dreaming!

I have a question though. Personally, I felt like I was in control but there is thing that happened twice where its like it randomly cuts and that makes me question. Let me explain. I was walking with this girl and we were just wandering around my neighborhood and the next second we were wandering around a Wal-Mart. I was still lucid at that moment, but how could that happen if I was fully lucid and in control? I didn't even doubt why all of a sudden I'm in Wal-Mart.

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## CosmicIron

> Woo! Great success. I followed CosmicIron's advice to let my mind drift (usually I killed whatever direction my mind was going) and did the technique. It took me awhile to go to sleep. I'm talking about at least a half hour, but when it happened I didn't notice because my dream started with me lying in bed trying to sleep and giving up. I go to walk my dog and despite it supposedly being 7AM it looks more like 8AM. I notice this and do a reality check and bam, I realize I'm dreaming!
> 
> I have a question though. Personally, I felt like I was in control but there is thing that happened twice where its like it randomly cuts and that makes me question. Let me explain. I was walking with this girl and we were just wandering around my neighborhood and the next second we were wandering around a Wal-Mart. I was still lucid at that moment, but how could that happen if I was fully lucid and in control? I didn't even doubt why all of a sudden I'm in Wal-Mart.



Congratulations!  Your experience is a perfect showcase of the kind of super-realistic FAs generated by SSILD  :smiley:   As for the shift of environment, it is quite common.  Even in LDs we are normally not all that "lucid".  We have the notion of dreaming and some degree of self-awareness, but it does not necessarily mean we are as alert and attentive as in waking life.  There are many techniques to help improve lucidity and control though.

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## JeanLucGodard

What are some because I've had quite a few LD's using this technique but probably only 2-3 where I'v felt I was truly in control of myself.

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## CosmicIron

> What are some because I've had quite a few LD's using this technique but probably only 2-3 where I'v felt I was truly in control of myself.



Rest assured it has nothing to do with which technique you use.  Upon becoming lucid, I'd suggest you immediately do some deepening techniques which will help stabilize the dream as well as increasing lucidity. Robert Waggoner has an excellent article on this.

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## Rubens

Can you give us a link to this article ?

CosmicIron, there is a small Brazilian Lucid Dreaming forum and they seem to don't know about this technique around here, I wanted to ask you if I could translate it to portuguese and publish on this forum ?

Is there any name to whom I have to give the credits ? Or I just mention you as "a member known as CosmicIron from DV forum" ?

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## CosmicIron

> Can you give us a link to this article ?
> 
> CosmicIron, there is a small Brazilian Lucid Dreaming forum and they seem to don't know about this technique around here, I wanted to ask you if I could translate it to portuguese and publish on this forum ?
> 
> Is there any name to whom I have to give the credits ? Or I just mention you as "a member known as CosmicIron from DV forum" ?



The link is here: The Lucid Dream Exchange

Please feel free to translate (thank you!) the SSILD article.  The article was first posted on LD4all, and I used the ID "cosmic.iron".  :smiley:

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## rynkrt3

This technique doesn't seem to be producing good consistent results for anyone.  Sure some people have gotten an LD or two, but after that everyone seems to have trouble with this technique.

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## Rubens

Well, I had 5 LDs and a semi-LD with it, not mentioning about 5 FA's that I lost  :smiley: 

So, I'm an exception.

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## RareCola

> This technique doesn't seem to be producing good consistent results for anyone.  Sure some people have gotten an LD or two, but after that everyone seems to have trouble with this technique.



I completely agree. I don't mean to talk bad about someone else's technique but I think your time would be better spent on better, more proven-to-work techniques. Now, this isn't to say I think this technique is all bad, I believe it has its uses but *not* with the intended use of this technique. I believe the hanging onto senses is great for both dream incubation and as an anchor when you are WILDing.





> Well, I had 5 LDs and a semi-LD with it, not mentioning about 5 FA's that I lost 
> 
> So, I'm an exception.



It's highly possible that what you're having are just MILDs and nothing to do with this technique.

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## Rubens

I agree Rare, it's very possible, but at least the FA's I assume that they provenient from the SSILD, when I was trying MILD only I didn't notice any FA.
And the FA's are becoming the best way for me to go to a LD.

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## CosmicIron

> This technique doesn't seem to be producing good consistent results for anyone.  Sure some people have gotten an LD or two, but after that everyone seems to have trouble with this technique.



That is simply not true. By speaking for "everyone", I assume you have collected some statistical data on a pretty large sample base, or is it just an "impression"?  As with ANY technique, to make it work consistently requires one to keep performing the technique in correct manner with some personal adjustments.  As I've repeatedly said, SSILD is not a technique that's developed solely based on individual experience.  It was the result of collaborative efforts of many people.  Thus, it never lacked clearly documented testimonials since the very beginning.  There are hundreds of first-time success stories, thousands of repeated success, and dozens of people who managed to use the technique to induce LDs/OBEs at will.  All of these mentioned can be found online, albeit mostly in Chinese.  Compared to some of the well-known techniques such as MILD, SSILD is indeed in its infancy, but it does work and there are statistics backing it up.  If it once worked for you but stopped working, I suggest you re-visit the article and read it more carefully.  You should also compare what you are doing now with the times it worked.  Of course, you are free to choose the technique that works best for you, and in no way I'm suggesting SSILD is the best solution for everyone.

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## mindfckk

Hi,

Yesterday, I did a wbtb after 5 hours of sleep then I did the 5 cycles before going back to sleep.

Then what happened is this, according to the original post:


2. You wake up with vibrations and other strange sensations. Hung onto these sensations will lead you into an OBE.

So basically, I felt vibrations, my heart was beating very fast. 

However, after a few seconds, it stopped...

Do I have to do something while this happens?? 
Could you develop a bit what you mean by "hung into these sensations" ??

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## Sydney

> So basically, I felt vibrations, my heart was beating very fast. 
> 
> However, after a few seconds, it stopped...
> 
> Do I have to do something while this happens?? 
> Could you develop a bit what you mean by "hung into these sensations" ??



That's kinda what happened to me for a couple of days. According to CosmicIron, you were probably in a False Awakening when you felt those vibrations. When it stopped, I think that meant you were "transitioning" from the dream state to real life. You just didn't notice it. So what CosmicIron told me to do was to just do another round - cycle - of SSILD. If you were in a false awakening, those senses would be intensified. You would know you were dreaming by then.

What I think he means by saying "hang onto these sensations," means like, I guess just to focus on them, or to focus on them passively. I'm not sure - CosmicIron will have to tell you that  :tongue2:

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## mindfckk

I see... thanks for the clarifications. I will see what happens tonight  :smiley:

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## melanieb

> That is simply not true. By speaking for "everyone", I assume you have collected some statistical data on a pretty large sample base, or is it just an "impression"?  As with ANY technique, to make it work consistently requires one to keep performing the technique in correct manner with some personal adjustments.  As I've repeatedly said, SSILD is not a technique that's developed solely based on individual experience.  It was the result of collaborative efforts of many people.  Thus, it never lacked clearly documented testimonials since the very beginning.  There are hundreds of first-time success stories, thousands of repeated success, and dozens of people who managed to use the technique to induce LDs/OBEs at will.  All of these mentioned can be found online, albeit mostly in Chinese.  Compared to some of the well-known techniques such as MILD, SSILD is indeed in its infancy, but it does work and there are statistics backing it up.  If it once worked for you but stopped working, I suggest you re-visit the article and read it more carefully.  You should also compare what you are doing now with the times it worked.  Of course, you are free to choose the technique that works best for you, and in no way I'm suggesting SSILD is the best solution for everyone.




I was wondering...could you link us to that Chinese forum?

Could you point us to people who collaborated on this?

Could you share some of those publications you mentioned producing on that other forum?

I think many here would like to read that info. 

Also:





> I don't have an accurate statistic but based on the reports we'ver gathered, the success rate is at least 50% if not higher. One thing we do know is that once you get a hang of this it produces consistent results. On the Chinese forum I worked with a smaller group of people, approximately 50, very closely, interacting with them on a daily basis. Five of them learnt to be able to succeed on a daily basis. They were complete amateurs with no prior experience with lucid dreaming. The average time for them to achieve this consistent result is about two months. Aside from these five people, all other members have experienced success, mostly within the first week, and they can average at least one or two LD/OBEs per week. The technique was first released on that forum in August last year. *To date we have collected hundreds of detailed report on success*.







> *Throughout the years I've recorded thousands of LDs and OBEs*.




Would it be possible to share some of this research? I think it would help people greatly, particularly reading the experiences of others.

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## OwenLucid

Okay I'm wondering, how can LD still feel so real but sometimes you can't recall them in the morning?!?! Im only saying this because for my two, I awoke after immediately and so all the feelings and sights were still so vivid. It seems to defeat the purpose of having a LD at all to me.

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## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by CosmicIron


You are free to believe or not believe in something.  However, calling people idiots like that will only discredit you.  You asked for evidence so I gave that to you -- more than 200 of them, collected in only a few months; yet again you accuse me of being untruthful without providing any explanation.  To me, that IS "nasty".



Lol woah. I guess you cant see that i made a joke? I was basically making a comment on how messed up google translate is. Also i apologized once before... whats your problem?*

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## CosmicIron

> Lol woah. I guess you cant see that i made a joke? I was basically making a comment on how messed up google translate is. Also i apologized once before... whats your problem?



What is your problem?

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## melanieb

Alright boys, it's just a misunderstanding. Emotion is nearly impossible to read in a text-only post.

So, I also looked over that Chinese forum. Google Translate produces some fascinating results. It's amazing how metaphors don't translate well from one language to another.

Still, I could understand a lot from context, and their thread is just like ours. Some success stories, some half-success stories, and some failures. Apparently people dream the same all over the world, no surprise to anyone here.

I did notice there are only 232 posts in that thread, and even with a 50% success rate that wouldn't equal 'hundreds' of cases.

Who cares?!

CosmicIron, we appreciate your sharing this idea with this forum. Many people will find it beneficial. 

For those that don't, no worries. We have a number of other methods in the WIKI and all over the forum. Nearly all of them are some variation of another method. *What matters is what works for the individual to achieve good lucid dreaming results.*


 - No method guarantees success with every person.

 - Not every person will lucid dream.

*We are all here to make our best efforts. Let's all work towards that goal and be open to new ideas*.    :smiley:

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## Sydney

> *What matters is what works for the individual to achieve good lucid dreaming results.*
> 
>  - No method guarantees success with every person.
> 
>  - Not every person will lucid dream.
> 
> *We are all here to make our best efforts. Let's all work towards that goal and be open to new ideas*.



Amen to that.  ::D:

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## CosmicIron

> Alright boys, it's just a misunderstanding. Emotion is nearly impossible to read in a text-only post.
> 
> So, I also looked over that Chinese forum. Google Translate produces some fascinating results. It's amazing how metaphors don't translate well from one language to another.
> 
> Still, I could understand a lot from context, and their thread is just like ours. Some success stories, some half-success stories, and some failures. Apparently people dream the same all over the world, no surprise to anyone here.
> 
> I did notice there are only 232 posts in that thread, and even with a 50% success rate that wouldn't equal 'hundreds' of cases.
> 
> Who cares?!
> ...



 Thank you melaniebe for the clarification, which is sincere and with good intention, unlike some other previous posts.  As for the thread let me clarify a little.  The url points to a single thread which I started some time ago to collect first-time only success stories which are scattered all over the forum.  The tieba platform is technically limited, thus it's search result only includes data from the first three months and the most recent three months.  The rest of the data are simply omitted.  As a result, by the time I decided to start that thread much of the information was already impossible to find.  After collecting a couple of hundred cases we just gave up and stopped updating the thread diligently.  As for repeated successes with SSILD we see them all over the place in the forum.  In fact, one of the students alone recorded over 300 LDs in the past few months using Ssild.  Another thing worth mention is that the thread is based on my personal tieba forum which has fewer than 2,000 members.  These people followed me from the much larger lucid dream forum which now has over 70,000 members.  A lot of information is deeply burried in that forum as well.

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## Sydney

A random question; but CosmicIron, do you know if waking up naturally or by alarm would be better for SSILD?
(I know we've probably discussed this earlier on in the thread, but I guess I'm just refreshing my memory xD)

It's weird. When I wake up by alarm in the middle of the night I remain drowsy until I get back in bed, where I fall asleep when I hit the pillow. Without alarm, I'm able to actually walk around in some awareness and actually focus on something.

If naturally is the way to go, I'm having trouble waking up at a specific time. Do you think mantras would help in this case? Although, I find it hard for me to fall asleep at the beginning of the night with mantras, but that's just me.

Thanks.  ::D:

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## WDr

Hmm. I'll try this tonight, you'll be getting the results tomorrow  :wink2:  looks promising  :smiley:

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## CosmicIron

> A random question; but CosmicIron, do you know if waking up naturally or by alarm would be better for SSILD?
> (I know we've probably discussed this earlier on in the thread, but I guess I'm just refreshing my memory xD)
> 
> It's weird. When I wake up by alarm in the middle of the night I remain drowsy until I get back in bed, where I fall asleep when I hit the pillow. Without alarm, I'm able to actually walk around in some awareness and actually focus on something.
> 
> If naturally is the way to go, I'm having trouble waking up at a specific time. Do you think mantras would help in this case? Although, I find it hard for me to fall asleep at the beginning of the night with mantras, but that's just me.
> 
> Thanks.



Usually when we wake up during REM we feel less drowsy.  As for SSILD, if you find yourself having difficulty to complete the first couple of cycles then you are too tired to make it work.  You would be better of going to sleep and do the exercise when you wake up again.  I find no difference between using alarm and waking up naturally though.   :Cheeky:

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## Sydney

> Usually when we wake up during REM we feel less drowsy.  As for SSILD, if you find yourself having difficulty to complete the first couple of cycles then you are too tired to make it work.  You would be better of going to sleep and do the exercise when you wake up again.  I find no difference between using alarm and waking up naturally though.



Ok  :smiley:

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## Freda

> Hmm. I'll try this tonight, you'll be getting the results tomorrow  looks promising



They never report back tomorrow :/
Perhaps i will, or perhaps i will be too lazy to give the technique a proper shot. We will see.

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## WDr

> They never report back tomorrow :/





So sorry!  :Sad:  I'm going to try the SSILD this night! Promise!

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## WDr

Just woke up, it didn't work :Sad:  didn't manage to consentrate and relax at the same time, and after I was done with the repetitions, I couldn't sleep... Oh well, I'm trying again tomorrow  :smiley:

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## mikee1877

For the past 2 days I have been adjusting this tech to my personal advantages.In these past 2 days i have gotten 3 lucid dreams and about 4-5 fa's,i really recommend anyone who is thinking of trying it to try it now!

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## CosmicIron

> Just woke up, it didn't work didn't manage to consentrate and relax at the same time, and after I was done with the repetitions, I couldn't sleep... Oh well, I'm trying again tomorrow



You don't want to "concentrate" -- you will have hard time to fall asleep if you do that. The keys to make this technique work are:

1. Get plenty of sleep and wake yourself up sufficiently but not overly... I recommend 5 minutes for starter.
2. Do not concentrate on the effects/sensations.  This is especially true with the first couple of cycles.  As you enter the later cycles, some sensations may occur, but you should not pay too much attention to them unless they become very pronounced, in which case you should cease cycling and focus on increasing the sensation mentally in order to achieve a WILD.
3. Always remind yourself to do an RC upon awakening after doing the exercise no matter how certain you are. This technique is very good at producing extremely vivid FAs.

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## WDr

Tried again this night, and it didn't go so well :Sad:  after about 2 repetitions, my thoughts started wandering, and I didn't feel like I got any proper inputs from my eyes, ears and rest-of-body... Then I just fell asleep, and woke up many times...

EDIT: 



> This thecnique is very good at producing extremely vivid FAs.



Hmm... I may have got some FAs... When I think about it, I dreamed that I talked to a person about my dreams that I had that night. Don't remember if it was before of after I did the SSILD..

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## CosmicIron

> Tried again this night, and it didn't go so well after about 2 repetitions, my thoughts started wandering, and I didn't feel like I got any proper inputs from my eyes, ears and rest-of-body... Then I just fell asleep, and woke up many times...
> 
> EDIT: 
> Hmm... I may have got some FAs... When I think about it, I dreamed that I talked to a person about my dreams that I had that night. Don't remember if it was before of after I did the SSILD..



It is okay to let the thoughts wander. That is the desired effect! You don't want to seek "proper inputs" from the sensory, just do the steps regardless of whether you experience any sensations. If you focus too much on the sensations you will lose sleep, besides, the first 2 cycles normally do not produce any sensations anyway. Also make sure you do the full 4 cycles.

Judging form your feedback, you were in and out of FAs numerous times  :smiley:  Next time please remember to do RCs immediately after waking up, no matter how sure you are.

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## isthisit

Ok, just read the whole thread (phew..) so I am trying this tonight for sure!

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## Bobblehat

> Ok, just read the whole thread (phew..) so I am trying this tonight for sure!



How did you get on?

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## SpaceCowboyDave

Hey CosmicIron, I have been trying SSILD for a few nights.  I am having trouble finding the "happy medium" between being too tired and not being sleepy.  Also, even when I do find the right amount of tired-ness, it just doesn't seem to do anything.  I don't know what I am doing wrong here.  SSILD worked for me the first time I tried it, now I can't get it to do anything.

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## CosmicIron

> Hey CosmicIron, I have been trying SSILD for a few nights.  I am having trouble finding the "happy medium" between being too tired and not being sleepy.  Also, even when I do find the right amount of tired-ness, it just doesn't seem to do anything.  I don't know what I am doing wrong here.  SSILD worked for me the first time I tried it, now I can't get it to do anything.



Hi Dave,

You don't need to try deliberately to fall asleep. Doing that will have adverse effect. Treat the cycles as hypnosis (in fact it is), and allow that to bring you into the "trance". Many people, myself included, have discovered that the cycles can easily make us feel sleepy even when we were wide awake. That is, if you do them correctly.  Too many people try to use the cycles as way to bring out HIs, vibrations, and etc., and while they occasionally may succeed, they are doing it wrong.  Usually during the first couple of cycles, we are wide awake, and our mind haven't quieted down yet.  As a result it is very unlikely we will feel anything at this stage, and if you force it, you will end up becoming anxious!  Therefore, you should simply do the first couple of cycles as it is, without any attempt. Just do it for the sake of doing it, allow it help you to relax. As you become more relaxed, you will feel your mind quieting down, and you may begin to "notice" some sensations. For example, the darkness behind your closed eyelids may not be so dark. You may notice some lights, movements, etc. As you listen, you may notice that the outside environment noise become less distracting, and instead you start to hear the ringing noise inside your head more clearly. When you notice these sensations, don't get excited, and don't "focus" on them (unless suddenly they become very obvious). Just quietly observe them without any intent. Doing so will help you get into the trance very quickly.

Another thing you want to keep in mind is that SSILD is very good at producing FAs; therefore you need to develop the habit of doing RCs every time you wake up after the exercise. When you find yourself not being able to fall asleep, or repeatedly waking up, you should definitely do an RC since these are signs of FAs produced by SSILD.

If you post more detailed description on how you performed the technique I might be able to help you more. SSILD works! It has been a year since it was developed and we have seen huge successes, so even the slightest doubts have diminished. If it doesn't work for you, then it's something in your routine that needs some fixing. I'm here to help.  :smiley:

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## SpaceCowboyDave

> Hi Dave,
> 
> You don't need to try deliberately to fall asleep. Doing that will have adverse effect. Treat the cycles as hypnosis (in fact it is), and allow that to bring you into the "trance". Many people, myself included, have discovered that the cycles can easily make us feel sleepy even when we were wide awake. That is, if you do them correctly.  Too many people try to use the cycles as way to bring out HIs, vibrations, and etc., and while they occasionally may succeed, they are doing it wrong.  Usually during the first couple of cycles, we are wide awake, and our mind haven't quieted down yet.  As a result it is very unlikely we will feel anything at this stage, and if you force it, you will end up becoming anxious!  Therefore, you should simply do the first couple of cycles as it is, without any attempt. Just do it for the sake of doing it, allow it help you to relax. As you become more relaxed, you will feel your mind quieting down, and you may begin to "notice" some sensations. For example, the darkness behind your closed eyelids may not be so dark. You may notice some lights, movements, etc. As you listen, you may notice that the outside environment noise become less distracting, and instead you start to hear the ringing noise inside your head more clearly. When you notice these sensations, don't get excited, and don't "focus" on them (unless suddenly they become very obvious). Just quietly observe them without any intent. Doing so will help you get into the trance very quickly.
> 
> Another thing you want to keep in mind is that SSILD is very good at producing FAs; therefore you need to develop the habit of doing RCs every time you wake up after the exercise. When you find yourself not being able to fall asleep, or repeatedly waking up, you should definitely do an RC since these are signs of FAs produced by SSILD.
> 
> If you post more detailed description on how you performed the technique I might be able to help you more. SSILD works! It has been a year since it was developed and we have seen huge successes, so even the slightest doubts have diminished. If it doesn't work for you, then it's something in your routine that needs some fixing. I'm here to help.




This morning I attempted SSILD again.  I woke up at 7:00AM after 6 hours of sleep.  I stayed awake for about 20 minutes, walking around the house and such.  I went back to bed already feeling tired, but not too tired as I couldn't get my repetitions completed.  During the repetitions I felt eventually felt an odd feeling, but it wasn't very strong.  I am not sure exactly how many I did, but I think I did at least 4.  By then I was so tired that I stopped and rolled over and went to sleep.  I woke up at 12:12PM remembering 3 dreams, none of them lucid.  

The only slight trouble I have had performing the technique is that my eyes are very twitchy when I try to stare at my eyelids.  My eyes refuse to cooperate and move around so I can't stare.  I think this might be related to the fact that I have abnormally shaky hands, arms and such.  Anyway, it is difficult to look at my eyelids when my eyes are zooming around in random directions, refusing to stay still.  I am no sure how to make them stop, because thinking about it only seems to make it worse.  

I was thinking maybe it is possible that I am having lucids/FA's and not remembering them, so I was thinking about setting an alarm maybe an hour after doing SSILD, what are your thoughts on that?

Thank you very much for your help and I know soon I will succeed with this technique.

----------


## DreamsRock

Wow, great technique!!  Thanks for all your work CosmicIron!  I tried it last night for the first time and man, u weren't kidding about the FA's!  My first attempt was looking at the blackness, which turned into a loud ringing noise, which then turned into a semi-lucid dream and ended.  I blew it.  The next awakening, same thing, stared at the blackness, saw a few stars start dancing around which then turned into me looking into a window and someone was painting cool pictures.  I thought to myself "this is really weird, I must be phasing, but I feel too awake so it can't be" - I almost did a reality check, like u said to do, but I again dismissed it because I felt like it was probably nothing. - IDIOT!  

I look forward to working on this technique and perfecting it!  Thanks!

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## Wanderlust

Hi, I just registered to try and get some help with this technique. So far, I've had no real success with it and I've done it for about a week. I start using it, and it works for a bit. I'll start seeing mental images, hearing sounds, etc. About the time I start getting anything close to a dream, I'll completely forget I was ever doing the techniques, fall asleep, which I thought was the idea...and nothing happens. The closest thing I've gotten to lucidity was a dream about me closing my window because it was cold when it was in fact cold because I left the window open.

What am I doing wrong? I'm not really concentrating on anything, I'm doing WBTB when I have a chance, but it doesn't work during the night or during daytime naps. I do leave a fan on in my room because I find it easier to fall asleep with white noise in the background. Is this okay, or should I learn to fall asleep without it? It's also not always completely dark when I go to sleep as my curtains don't block a lot of light.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hi, I just registered to try and get some help with this technique. So far, I've had no real success with it and I've done it for about a week. I start using it, and it works for a bit. I'll start seeing mental images, hearing sounds, etc. About the time I start getting anything close to a dream, I'll completely forget I was ever doing the techniques, fall asleep, which I thought was the idea...and nothing happens. The closest thing I've gotten to lucidity was a dream about me closing my window because it was cold when it was in fact cold because I left the window open.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? I'm not really concentrating on anything, I'm doing WBTB when I have a chance, but it doesn't work during the night or during daytime naps. I do leave a fan on in my room because I find it easier to fall asleep with white noise in the background. Is this okay, or should I learn to fall asleep without it? It's also not always completely dark when I go to sleep as my curtains don't block a lot of light.



Please provide me with the following information:

1. What time did you go to sleep?
2. What time did you get up?
3. How long did you stay awake?
4. How many cycles did you perform before drifting to sleep?
5. How long did it take you to fall back sleep?
6. Roughly how long did you perform each step (see, hear, and feel)?

----------


## Wanderlust

> Please provide me with the following information:
> 
> 1. What time did you go to sleep?
> 2. What time did you get up?
> 3. How long did you stay awake?
> 4. How many cycles did you perform before drifting to sleep?
> 5. How long did it take you to fall back sleep?
> 6. Roughly how long did you perform each step (see, hear, and feel)?



1. ~9 PM (Yeah, I know, I go to bed early.)
2. Set my alarm for 3 AM
3. Just long enough to use the restroom.
4. Maybe two or three.
5. Only a few minutes. The first time I did this, I lost sleep because I was concentrating too hard.
6. I performed them as long as it felt "right." Whatever felt like 15 seconds, I did. Could've been longer or shorter, I suppose, I wasn't paying attention.

----------


## CosmicIron

> 1. ~9 PM (Yeah, I know, I go to bed early.)
> 2. Set my alarm for 3 AM
> 3. Just long enough to use the restroom.
> 4. Maybe two or three.
> 5. Only a few minutes. The first time I did this, I lost sleep because I was concentrating too hard.
> 6. I performed them as long as it felt "right." Whatever felt like 15 seconds, I did. Could've been longer or shorter, I suppose, I wasn't paying attention.



Based on your feedback, I think the cause is insufficient effort. Don't despair, this is better than the other way around actually  :tongue2:  My suggestions:

1. Extend your wake time, say, 5-10 minutes
2. Make sure you do the full four cycles. Rule of thumb is That after your mind begins to wander you should do at least 2 complete cycles. In your case that would be 4 or 5 cycles.
3. The last cycle must be performed more diligently.
4. The "feel right" approach is perfect. No need to change anything I guess for now.

Let's do this and see what happens. Keep me posted so we can adjust it to make it work for you. Good luck!

----------


## Wanderlust

> Based on your feedback, I think the cause is insufficient effort. Don't despair, this is better than the other way around actually  My suggestions:
> 
> 1. Extend your wake time, say, 5-10 minutes
> 2. Make sure you do the full four cycles. Rule of thumb is That after your mind begins to wander you should do at least 2 complete cycles. In your case that would be 4 or 5 cycles.
> 3. The last cycle must be performed more diligently.
> 4. The "feel right" approach is perfect. No need to change anything I guess for now.
> 
> Let's do this and see what happens. Keep me posted so we can adjust it to make it work for you. Good luck!



Haven't had a chance to try it yet, will try tonight. Is a fan okay in the background? I find it makes it easier to sleep.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Haven't had a chance to try it yet, will try tonight. Is a fan okay in the background? I find it makes it easier to sleep.



It is okay as long as it doesn't interfere. Typically though, the quieter the room is, the better it is. As you go through the cycles, your attention shifts from the external senses to the internal ones. For example, the external sounds may become quieter, while the noises in your head becomes more obvious. When this happens you know you are getting deeper into the "state". If there is too much external noise, then you may not be able to shift your focus away.

----------


## Wanderlust

Tried it last night, but I kept myself awake. Wasn't even up for that much longer. I did notice, however, that without the fan on, I noticed some strange sensations I had never felt in my earlier attempts. I felt like I was getting lighter and slowly rising off the bed, but again, I lost sleep last night and couldn't make use of the technique. Does have some promise to it, though.

----------


## moosehawk

Just had my first ever LD with this method after about a week of attempts. At least, I think it was this method. 

I woke up from a dream into an FA. I typically RC when I wake up but I missed it in the FA because my attention was kept on somebody who had woken me up. After a few minutes, I walked upstairs into the bathroom and turned on the light, but nothing happened. I tried it again, and still nothing happened. It immediately clicked in my head to do a nose RC and I could breathe! I was so excited that I panicked so I tried to grab on to the first thing I could to help stabilize the dream which happened to be the person who woke me up and followed me to the bathroom. The dream faded before I could reach her and I woke up in SP trying to breathe really heavily for about 2 seconds until I came to my senses and realized I just need to stay calm.

It was one heck of a night in general. On average I record about 1 dream a night with poor-good quality. This night I recorded 5 dreams and 3 of them with incredible vividness and quality. Here's my night recap:


*Spoiler* for _Sleep Recap_: 



9:50 pm: Take an allergy pill, B6, and slam 2 glasses of milk and half a glass of water. Set alarms for 2:30 am (4.5h), 4:00 am (6h + 30m WBTB), and 6:30 am (8h) (Working on increasing my DR so it helps for me to wake up during or right after REM).
10:00 pm: Fell asleep.
12:15 am (2.25h): Woke up. No dream recall.
12:20 am: Fell asleep.
1:40 am (~3.5h): Woke up, recorded a dream of poor quality and length.
1:50 am: Fell asleep.
2:30 am (4.25h): Woke up to alarm. No dream recall.
2:35 am: Fell asleep.
3:10 am (~5h): Woke up, recorded a dream of great quality (2 full notebook pages of block text written as short-hand as possible, took me so long to write I reset my 4:00 alarm to 4:30). I had to urinate really bad at this point, and I even did so in the previous dream successfully. I waited to go to the bathroom until 4:30 in case I had another dream where I'd go to the bathroom so I told myself to RC the next time I do.
3:35 am: Fell asleep.
4:30 am (~6h): Woke up to alarm. No dream recall. WBTB for 20 minutes while reading DJ.
4:50 am: SSILD 5 cycles, achieved trance but was wide awake for 5th cycle. Laid in bed for 25 minutes before trying again.
5:15 am: SSILD 4 cycles, achieved trance but still couldn't fall asleep. Laid in bed for 20 minutes before trying one more time.
5:35 am: SSILD 3 cycles before roommate wakes up and makes a ton of noise upstairs. I give up, curse the method and start thinking about not trying it ever again, put earplugs in and try falling asleep. (At this point I haven't slept for more than a few minutes in over an hour)
5:55? am (~6.5h): Woke up and recorded a dream of great quality but the dream was pretty short. Just tried falling asleep like normal again.
6:15 am: Fell asleep (I know I fell asleep after 6:10 cause I called my roommate and she told me that's when she left).
6:30 am (~6.75h): Wake up from FA LD! Great quality and decent length, although lucidity itself only lasted about 4 seconds. I also recorded another dream before the FA of poor quality.

----------


## NoLimits

I've been a lurker for a litte over a month now, and I feel like this is the perfect time to join. I used this method last night and had my first lucid dream in ages!  :smiley:  (albeit very short, but that was my own fault)

I went to bed at 2am (I'm a night owl) and set my Alarm for 8am. When my alarm went off, I got out of bed to shut the window, so I had no distractions. I also have a sleep mask, which I didn't take off at all, even when I shut the window. It took my about 20-30 mins to fall back to sleep, and I just assumed I failed and it didn't work. I lost count of how many cycles I did, but it was way more than 5.

Next thing I know, I literally feel myself falling asleep. Tingles all over my body and I knew I was creeping into sleep paralysis. Even though I know SP is not harmful, my heart was racing like mad, I really didn't want to see any freaky stuff. As soon as I attempted to move, I think I then had an OBE. I just remember leaning up in my bed and doing a couple of reality checks. (Although I knew it wasn't reality, because everything was really blurry, I just did it anyway)

Then suddenly I see myself in third person, above the clouds and I just remember being hit by a wave of happiness (I know that sounds really stupid, but that's the best way I can describe it) Then just as I was getting into it, I hear my alarm and it woke me up  :Sad:  I set up a back-up alarm, so if it didn't work the first time, I could try again. But I didn't take into account that it would take me so long to fall back to sleep, so that was a fail on my part.

Nevertheless I'm extremely happy that I experienced it, and I really hope it wasn't a fluke. I also forgot to mention that my dream recall was incredible. 10x better then it has been for the past 2 weeks. I still remember a couple of my dreams vividly right now.

Big props to the OP, I think I've just found my new method!

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## Wanderlust

I don't get it. The last few times I've tried, I simply haven't been able to do it. My mind wanders restlessly from topic to topic, and won't do the technique for very long. I can do maybe 1 1/2 cycles before my mind begins to wander, but I'm still wide awake.

What can I do? Is it just my mind is all screwed up? (That wouldn't surprise me, honestly. I do have severe depression. Maybe that has something to do with it.)

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## CosmicIron

> I don't get it. The last few times I've tried, I simply haven't been able to do it. My mind wanders restlessly from topic to topic, and won't do the technique for very long. I can do maybe 1 1/2 cycles before my mind begins to wander, but I'm still wide awake.
> 
> What can I do? Is it just my mind is all screwed up? (That wouldn't surprise me, honestly. I do have severe depression. Maybe that has something to do with it.)



No, I don't think your mind is any more screwed up than the rest of us, LOL. To counter your problem, I suggest the following:

1. Get more sleep. Go to bed earlier than usual, and do not wake up until you have at least a good five-hour sleep.
2. Read this post: http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/theory...-ssild-135234/

Cheers

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## Wanderlust

1. I always sleep 6 hours before waking up and doing stuff for a few minutes. I was told this is ideal for this sort of thing.
2. Maybe what I took away from that is that I'm looking for results too hard.

Last time I tried this, I was wearing earplugs because it was an afternoon nap and people were milling about and there were sounds all over the place. I noticed I paid a lot of attention to my breathing. Is that okay?

It's just extremely frustrating. I'm using this technique to try and produce OBEs. I tried Raduga's methods for over a year with almost no success, and I've been doing this for a few weeks now and I haven't had any success. I find I do a bunch of cycles, then fall asleep and nothing happens.

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## CosmicIron

> 1. I always sleep 6 hours before waking up and doing stuff for a few minutes. I was told this is ideal for this sort of thing.
> 2. Maybe what I took away from that is that I'm looking for results too hard.
> 
> Last time I tried this, I was wearing earplugs because it was an afternoon nap and people were milling about and there were sounds all over the place. I noticed I paid a lot of attention to my breathing. Is that okay?
> 
> It's just extremely frustrating. I'm using this technique to try and produce OBEs. I tried Raduga's methods for over a year with almost no success, and I've been doing this for a few weeks now and I haven't had any success. I find I do a bunch of cycles, then fall asleep and nothing happens.



You summed it correctly -- you are trying too hard. You shouldn't pay attention to ANYTHING! Stay as comfortable as possible, allow your mind to wander. If you wake up without success, don't despair, just keep doing more cycles till you fall asleep. Repeat this and you will have success.

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## Wanderlust

> You summed it correctly -- you are trying too hard. You shouldn't pay attention to ANYTHING! Stay as comfortable as possible, allow your mind to wander. If you wake up without success, don't despair, just keep doing more cycles till you fall asleep. Repeat this and you will have success.



Still nothing. Last night I noticed that when I'd hear a sound or see something very briefly, it would catch my attention, then disappear shortly afterwards. What is this a sign of?

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## CosmicIron

> Still nothing. Last night I noticed that when I'd hear a sound or see something very briefly, it would catch my attention, then disappear shortly afterwards. What is this a sign of?



Those are HIs caused by the exercise and when that happens you are already extremely close to stepping into the dream consciously! Unfortunately you got excited and that causes it to go away. Next time you see this you should resume a passive observer role, and at the same time do not think rationally. Allow the HIs to manifest, and they will turn into full blown dreams automatically.

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## TofuBitz

I tried the following steps, and I can say I'm not really disappointed. I went to sleep at ten, woke up at two and even though I was VERY tired I tried my best with the cycles. I think I did four of them before I felt sluggish, and not really able to concentrate on anything but sleep anymore. So I went to bed, and instantly it felt like I was falling through my bed, or getting extremely light. I felt as if I might have an OBE, due to the way my body felt. It was the strangest feeling I've ever felt, then I fell asleep. I don't believe I had a lucid dream, because I can't remember it to well. And if I did have one, I'm sure I would remember it right? But it was weird once again, my dream self was having lucid dreams inside my dream! (dreamception?) And my dream self was bragging about it in the dream about how the technique worked. It was so strange, but I am definitely not disappointed even if I didn't have the lucid dream! I'll be trying this again tonight, thanks!

----------


## moosehawk

> I tried the following steps, and I can say I'm not really disappointed. I went to sleep at ten, woke up at two and even though I was VERY tired I tried my best with the cycles. I think I did four of them before I felt sluggish, and not really able to concentrate on anything but sleep anymore. So I went to bed, and instantly it felt like I was falling through my bed, or getting extremely light. I felt as if I might have an OBE, due to the way my body felt. It was the strangest feeling I've ever felt, then I fell asleep. I don't believe I had a lucid dream, because I can't remember it to well. And if I did have one, I'm sure I would remember it right? But it was weird once again, my dream self was having lucid dreams inside my dream! (dreamception?) And my dream self was bragging about it in the dream about how the technique worked. It was so strange, but I am definitely not disappointed even if I didn't have the lucid dream! I'll be trying this again tonight, thanks!



It's possible to forget lucid dreams. With below average dream recall it can actually be quite easy to do so, especially for longer LDs.

I've had almost that same exact dream where you dream of going to sleep and having an LD. I don't think it's considered an LD but it means you're getting closer.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I tried the following steps, and I can say I'm not really disappointed. I went to sleep at ten, woke up at two and even though I was VERY tired I tried my best with the cycles. I think I did four of them before I felt sluggish, and not really able to concentrate on anything but sleep anymore. So I went to bed, and instantly it felt like I was falling through my bed, or getting extremely light. I felt as if I might have an OBE, due to the way my body felt. It was the strangest feeling I've ever felt, then I fell asleep. I don't believe I had a lucid dream, because I can't remember it to well. And if I did have one, I'm sure I would remember it right? But it was weird once again, my dream self was having lucid dreams inside my dream! (dreamception?) And my dream self was bragging about it in the dream about how the technique worked. It was so strange, but I am definitely not disappointed even if I didn't have the lucid dream! I'll be trying this again tonight, thanks!



It is quite common... basically it's an LD which is followed by a False Awakening, or an LD that is launched from an FA. Either way, it is a lucid dream by most accepted standards. When you had the weird falling sensations though, you were extremely close to having a genuine OBE while being full conscious. Next time when this happens just relax and go with the flow.

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## TofuBitz

Will do! I'm going to try again tonight, I'll post the results.

----------


## TofuBitz

> Will do! I'm going to try again tonight, I'll post the results.



Well, last night it didn't work at all. I didn't even have any weird feelings when going back to sleep, so I think I might know what the problem was. How conscious/awake do I need to be for the exercises to do what they need to do? Because I was barely aware or conscious when I did them last night, I barely knew what I was doing except for the senses practicing. Right when I was done, I was sound back to sleep within a minute.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Well, last night it didn't work at all. I didn't even have any weird feelings when going back to sleep, so I think I might know what the problem was. How conscious/awake do I need to be for the exercises to do what they need to do? Because I was barely aware or conscious when I did them last night, I barely knew what I was doing except for the senses practicing. Right when I was done, I was sound back to sleep within a minute.



If you find it hard to complete the first two cycles then you are simply too tired to make it work. On the other hand, if your mind does not drift after four cycles then you are too awake.

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## Nivv

> If you find it hard to complete the first two cycles then you are simply too tired to make it work. On the other hand, if your mind does not drift after four cycles then you are too awake.



So, to clarify, if I feel like I am not falling asleep after 5 cycles (which is how it usually is for me), should I continue with the cycles? Also, I tend to feel uncomfortable at the end of the 5 cycles and have to roll over, meaning I basically don't get to sleep for a long while.

EDIT: By the way many thanks for always helping and replying on your threads here and on LD4all!

----------


## CosmicIron

> So, to clarify, if I feel like I am not falling asleep after 5 cycles (which is how it usually is for me), should I continue with the cycles? Also, I tend to feel uncomfortable at the end of the 5 cycles and have to roll over, meaning I basically don't get to sleep for a long while.
> 
> EDIT: By the way many thanks for always helping and replying on your threads here and on LD4all!



You can try doing more cycles if you do not enter the trance -- mind begins to wander, external stimulus become subdued... However, you should keep in mind that you might risk losing sleep completely. To counter this problem, you might want to switch to a more comfortable position, such as the one you always use for sleeping. Honestly I don't recommend doing more than 6 cycles. If still no trance after 6 cycles you really should just give up and go to sleep. There is still a high chance for you to become lucid in the dreams, and you can always try to do it once more after you wake up again.

The sudden uncomfortable feeling might be caused by trying to stay completely still, which is the wrong way to do SSILD. If you stay absolutely still, your body might think it is okay to quit functioning and go to sleep. In order to make sure it does not fall asleep before the brain does, the body sends a signal to test if you are still alert. That signal basically make you feel extremely uncomfortable. If you ignore that then you have a very chance to enter a WILD, although this can truly be a test for one's will. Not requiring you to stay completely still is a key feature of SSILD. You should always feel comfortable, and if that means scratching that itch then you should by all means do it! In the worst case you just make it up by doing one more cycle. Big deal, right? Anyway, you should always be relaxed, allow the trance to carry you gently into sleep. Don't fight it.

It is my pleasure to help fellow LDers. Thank YOU for trying this new technique!

----------


## Bobblehat

Hi CosmicIron.

I was wondering if you would consider writing a new SSILD tutorial? Now you have many more people's experiences (including successful and unsuccessful attempts!) that have improved the technique.

----------


## MadMonkey

I've seen a lot of people mentioning this method the last couple of days so I thought I would look it up yesterday. I had never really heard of a technique like this and it seemed really interesting so I thought I would try it. Holly cow it worked better than I expected. Just a little background, It takes a lot for me to experience HI or sleep paralysis. That makes it really hard for me to WILD. 

I woke up at 4:30, wrote down a dream real quick and tried SSILD. The first cycle or two not much seemed to happen. I could hear a high pitched buzzing in my ear and some very subtle imagery. On the third cycle my mind wandered with the beginnings of a dream plot but I caught myself, I knew that was a great sign. On the fifth cycle the HI and buzzing started to get intense. My vision started flashing bright white on and off and the buzzing went along with it light an alarm. I felt vibrations in my body. After it settled down a bit and I thought I might be dreaming already. It was a bit hard to move but the nose plug RC failed. I laid back down and had some very vivid half dreams were I was just watching the imagery. Suddenly I woke all the way back up. I thought it was an FA but I RCed and it wasn't. I just went to sleep quickly like suggested. I can remember the dream from the very beginning even when it was just developing from HI and the plot was unfolding. I was fairly aware even from the beginning. After a little while I had a sudden spontaneous boost of full lucidity. I woke up rather quickly but that was my fault and I didn't really mind because I wanted to be sure to wright it down completely.

I'm going to be experimenting a lot with this technique. I don't totally understand why it is so effective at inducing trance states indirectly but It diffidently does.

----------


## Histopotomus

I registered just to post in this thread and say thanks! I have been trying to lucid dream for only three weeks or so, and had my first lucid dream ever last night thanks to this method.

I woke up in the middle of the night naturally, and started cycling through these steps. I definitely lost focus a few times, and at one point I had a sudden flash of an image of a salad bar in a restaurant (I don't even know!). Then I felt those vibrations people talk about from the WILD technique - holy hell, that was amazing! But it only lasted a second or so. Then I tried plugging my nose and I could breathe through it! I tried to move out of bed but it was very difficult to move. Eventually I did get up, and I looked back to see if my real body was still in the bed (it wasn't) and went to the bathroom. I tried to make it so that when I opened the bathroom door I would be somewhere else, but that didn't work either. The bathroom did look weird though, it was in the middle of being renovated and had bookshelves full of young adult novels in there. I definitely did the rubbing hands thing, and also plugged my nose again just to make sure. Then I just kinda woke up.

I tried to do it again since I didn't have to get up at any particular time today but I was too excited from the dream to fall asleep again.  :smiley:  

So anyway thank you for this! What an amazing feeling. The most exciting dream I've ever had about going to the bathroom.  ::D:

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## WDr

I'm thinking about combining this technique with a three-seconds alarm going of at night? Why/why not? Is it important to hit a REM period or something?

----------


## CosmicIron

> I registered just to post in this thread and say thanks! I have been trying to lucid dream for only three weeks or so, and had my first lucid dream ever last night thanks to this method.
> 
> I woke up in the middle of the night naturally, and started cycling through these steps. I definitely lost focus a few times, and at one point I had a sudden flash of an image of a salad bar in a restaurant (I don't even know!). Then I felt those vibrations people talk about from the WILD technique - holy hell, that was amazing! But it only lasted a second or so. Then I tried plugging my nose and I could breathe through it! I tried to move out of bed but it was very difficult to move. Eventually I did get up, and I looked back to see if my real body was still in the bed (it wasn't) and went to the bathroom. I tried to make it so that when I opened the bathroom door I would be somewhere else, but that didn't work either. The bathroom did look weird though, it was in the middle of being renovated and had bookshelves full of young adult novels in there. I definitely did the rubbing hands thing, and also plugged my nose again just to make sure. Then I just kinda woke up.
> 
> I tried to do it again since I didn't have to get up at any particular time today but I was too excited from the dream to fall asleep again.  
> 
> So anyway thank you for this! What an amazing feeling. The most exciting dream I've ever had about going to the bathroom.



A bathroom full of porns? Wow, if that's not exciting then nothing else is, LOL. Congrats!  :tongue2:

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## CosmicIron

> I've seen a lot of people mentioning this method the last couple of days so I thought I would look it up yesterday. I had never really heard of a technique like this and it seemed really interesting so I thought I would try it. Holly cow it worked better than I expected. Just a little background, It takes a lot for me to experience HI or sleep paralysis. That makes it really hard for me to WILD. 
> 
> I woke up at 4:30, wrote down a dream real quick and tried SSILD. The first cycle or two not much seemed to happen. I could hear a high pitched buzzing in my ear and some very subtle imagery. On the third cycle my mind wandered with the beginnings of a dream plot but I caught myself, I knew that was a great sign. On the fifth cycle the HI and buzzing started to get intense. My vision started flashing bright white on and off and the buzzing went along with it light an alarm. I felt vibrations in my body. After it settled down a bit and I thought I might be dreaming already. It was a bit hard to move but the nose plug RC failed. I laid back down and had some very vivid half dreams were I was just watching the imagery. Suddenly I woke all the way back up. I thought it was an FA but I RCed and it wasn't. I just went to sleep quickly like suggested. I can remember the dream from the very beginning even when it was just developing from HI and the plot was unfolding. I was fairly aware even from the beginning. After a little while I had a sudden spontaneous boost of full lucidity. I woke up rather quickly but that was my fault and I didn't really mind because I wanted to be sure to wright it down completely.
> 
> I'm going to be experimenting a lot with this technique. I don't totally understand why it is so effective at inducing trance states indirectly but It diffidently does.



When the HIs and vibrations get intense you should immediately do a nose RC and get up. Do not wait for it to die down because you will likely just wake up as you introduce more rational thoughts into the process. Getting real close!

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## CosmicIron

> Hi CosmicIron.
> 
> I was wondering if you would consider writing a new SSILD tutorial? Now you have many more people's experiences (including successful and unsuccessful attempts!) that have improved the technique.



Yes I've been thinking about that all the time... and that simply tells you how lazy I am, LOL.

----------


## MadMonkey

> When the HIs and vibrations get intense you should immediately do a nose RC and get up. Do not wait for it to die down because you will likely just wake up as you introduce more rational thoughts into the process. Getting real close!



When I tried to rc they were still quite intense but not as much as whent it first started. It was quite hard to move not because of sp but because of the sensory overload. I think I might have been able to breath through my fingers but I was a little confused and thought that ment I was awake. Its hard to tell now.

The las few nights I tried it but fell asleep to fast which is unusual for me. Its probably because of the melatonin I was taking for a week before bed. Sense I'm done taking it I should get some more success.

----------


## WDr

You just ignored me and my question? 




But seriously, could you please answer it?  :smiley: 






> I'm thinking about combining this technique with a three-seconds alarm going of at night. Why/why not? Is it important to hit a REM period or something?

----------


## CosmicIron

> You just ignored me and my question? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously, could you please answer it?



LOL, no I didn't ignore you, at least it was not my intention. You can use an alarm to wake yourself up as long as you had sufficient amount of sleep prior to that. The general rule of thumb is: 

1. If you find it difficult to complete the first two cycles then you either do not have sufficient sleep, or you need to wake up a bit more before you begin the exercise. 

2. If your mind does not drift after 4 cycles then you are too awake.

----------


## Bobblehat

*Question for cosmic iron:*

If you do SSILD in the night, go to sleep, have an LD then wake up again but want to try for another LD, should you:

*A:* Just go back to sleep again normally (after doing your DJ etc)

*B:* Do SSILD cycles again (after DJ)

*C:* Something else

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## CosmicIron

> *Question for cosmic iron:*
> 
> If you do SSILD in the night, go to sleep, have an LD then wake up again but want to try for another LD, should you:
> 
> *A:* Just go back to sleep again normally (after doing your DJ etc)
> 
> *B:* Do SSILD cycles again (after DJ)
> 
> *C:* Something else



I'd do a couple more cycles again and then go to sleep. Don't do too many though as you may end up not being able to fall back to sleep.

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## skullgunner1

Woop. I tried this for 4 nights and nothing happens. I do the cycles, go to sleep, and just have vivid dreams.

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## CosmicIron

> Woop. I tried this for 4 nights and nothing happens. I do the cycles, go to sleep, and just have vivid dreams.



Try staying awake a bit more prior to the exercise. Experiment with 5-minute increments.

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## skullgunner1

Decided to continue on with the method  :smiley: .

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## Hunterkiss

This technique is correct, but I don't think CosmicIron should take credit for development of it. I see CosmicIron on pretty much every LD website. On ld4all this guy says his first lucid dream was in April, 2012.. I'm sure he has done studies like he claims but makes himself out to be more experienced than actually is. No offense towards CosmicIron, just thought I would put it out there. Thanks for the tutorial though.

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## CosmicIron

> This technique is correct, but I don't think CosmicIron should take credit for development of it. I see CosmicIron on pretty much every LD website. On ld4all this guy says his first lucid dream was in April, 2012.. I'm sure he has done studies like he claims but makes himself out to be more experienced than actually is. No offense towards CosmicIron, just thought I would put it out there. Thanks for the tutorial though.



I'd like to ask you to quote the exact phrase which supposedly is from me that says I had my first LD on April, 2012. The SSILD technique first appeared early last year on the Chinese forum "Baidu Tieba", and was posted by my Chinese online alias "宇宙之铁＂which is the literal translation of "Cosmic Iron". The first version of English translation of SSILD was published on August last year on DV under the title "A Practical Recipe for Inducing LDs and OBEs". It was later refined and renamed to SSILD and was posted first onto LD4all while DV was recovering from the hacker attack. I have no idea where you got your "facts"... You probably meant no offense but this is nonetheless an accusation based on false facts.

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## Hunterkiss

> I'd like to ask you to quote the exact phrase which supposedly is from me that says I had my first LD on April, 2012. The SSILD technique first appeared early last year on the Chinese forum "Baidu Tieba", and was posted by my Chinese online alias "宇宙之铁＂which is the literal translation of "Cosmic Iron". The first version of English translation of SSILD was published on August last year on DV under the title "A Practical Recipe for Inducing LDs and OBEs". It was later refined and renamed to SSILD and was posted first onto LD4all while DV was recovering from the hacker attack. I have no idea where you got your "facts"... You probably meant no offense but this is nonetheless an accusation based on false facts.



Apologies. Just realized it says "from @lago" but on the left it says cosmic.iron. Then I realized they all say that because that is who started the thread not the replier.

_"From @Iago 
04-01-2012 

First LD! 

I set up an alarm before going to bed, and when I woke up i tried SSILD. It worked, I think I fell asleep during the last cycles. In the dream, I was at an English school (not native here) which my uncle works for as a teacher, in other city. I pinched my nose and noticed I could breathe. I yelled from joy and excitment, I can't remember the words exactly, and started jumping. However, I couldn't transform the dream the way I wanted, I tried to change some girl's face which I had never seen to someone's I used to know, and I began looking for a WritersCube's clock, none succesful. Suddenly I was home, in the city I live, and there were two strange people, one of them related to previous dream events, but I didn't care about the other. The enviroment wasn't vivid, it was fading out. I thought I would really find the dreamclock when my alarm started IRL. I started rubbing my hands, and yelling "I want to stay!", but I woke up anyway. Think it was better that way, because the lucidity would fade out and it would turn to a normal dream again. Now in my memory it looks like a normal dream, but I'm sure I got lucid. Low lucidity. Next time I must remember to take a look at my enviroment, and ask for more realism."_ 

My mistake. I also read another thread about how this is similar to "Indirect Techniques" but I read your reply/explanation. You can never be too sure if someone is professional or not on the internet haha. Regards.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Apologies. Just realized it says "from @lago" but on the left it says cosmic.iron. Then I realized they all say that because that is who started the thread not the replier.
> 
> _"From @Iago 
> 04-01-2012 
> 
> First LD! 
> 
> I set up an alarm before going to bed, and when I woke up i tried SSILD. It worked, I think I fell asleep during the last cycles. In the dream, I was at an English school (not native here) which my uncle works for as a teacher, in other city. I pinched my nose and noticed I could breathe. I yelled from joy and excitment, I can't remember the words exactly, and started jumping. However, I couldn't transform the dream the way I wanted, I tried to change some girl's face which I had never seen to someone's I used to know, and I began looking for a WritersCube's clock, none succesful. Suddenly I was home, in the city I live, and there were two strange people, one of them related to previous dream events, but I didn't care about the other. The enviroment wasn't vivid, it was fading out. I thought I would really find the dreamclock when my alarm started IRL. I started rubbing my hands, and yelling "I want to stay!", but I woke up anyway. Think it was better that way, because the lucidity would fade out and it would turn to a normal dream again. Now in my memory it looks like a normal dream, but I'm sure I got lucid. Low lucidity. Next time I must remember to take a look at my enviroment, and ask for more realism."_ 
> 
> My mistake. I also read another thread about how this is similar to "Indirect Techniques" but I read your reply/explanation. You can never be too sure if someone is professional or not on the internet haha. Regards.



Apology accepted, and thanks for the clarification  :Cheeky:

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## Hunterkiss

Question, are you supposed to do the cycles until you kinda lose focus and fall asleep unintentionally? or do 4-5 cycles and then try to fall asleep (get into a new postion, etc.)?

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## Sensei

> Question, are you supposed to do the cycles until you kinda lose focus and fall asleep unintentionally? or do 4-5 cycles and then try to fall asleep (get into a new postion, etc.)?



I have been trying this for like three days and had 2 LDs one night 1 another. It is impossible to say that this was what caused it because I just jumped lucid randomly in my dream, but it seems like it did.

Also. I have been doing it planning on doing it like four or five times, but normally forget about it after two cycles. When I remember to do it I just restart.

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## CosmicIron

> Question, are you supposed to do the cycles until you kinda lose focus and fall asleep unintentionally? or do 4-5 cycles and then try to fall asleep (get into a new postion, etc.)?



Either is fine. However, if you fall asleep unintentionally it may be a sign that you have not awakened sufficiently, and that will yield less than optimal result.

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## MrOMGWTF

Definitely gonna try this!  :smiley: 

I'll post the results. Hope I get a LD  ::banana::

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## bluremi

I had a weird experience today:

Woke up after 6 hours of sleep via an alarm at 6AM. Got up to brush my teeth and then went back to sleep with earplugs in.

I started doing the cycles, and after two cycles I felt strange vibrations. It felt like the thrumming of a motorboat, very precise, about 4-per-second. They were very soft and if I focused on them they did not increase or decrease.

The weird thing is that I was still very awake and had no loss of sensation from my physical body. While it was occurring I thought perhaps I was in the middle of a FA and that I should do a reality check, but did not want to risk it because moving might destroy the vibrations. In the end the vibrations faded and so did my consciousness; I woke up two hours later none the wiser.

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## Xanous

I have had many WILDs and DEILDs but I seem to have trouble during my work week. I think I will give this a go tonight. I have done similar things before on my own but this is more defined. It should be a cinch. Thanks.

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## psychoTR2

This is very interesting. I'll try it for the next few nights and post the results here and on my dream journal. Thank you for writing this!

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## Xanous

I have had some success with this method. I got a DILD the first night. I don't understand why this work but it has so far.

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## psychoTR2

Okay, I was going to try it last night, but I ended up sleeping through the whole night. But, I'm gonna try it tonight, I got an account at textmemos.com because it was the only way I could have an alarm that only lasts a few seconds and doesn't require me to get up and turn off (thus spoiling the method with rational thought), and set it to text me at 2:30 am. Wish me luck  ::D:

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## Xanous

> Okay, I was going to try it last night, but I ended up sleeping through the whole night. But, I'm gonna try it tonight, I got an account at textmemos.com because it was the only way I could have an alarm that only lasts a few seconds and doesn't require me to get up and turn off (thus spoiling the method with rational thought), and set it to text me at 2:30 am. Wish me luck



If you have android this will do all you need. Alarm Clock Plus

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## psychoTR2

> If you have android this will do all you need.



Can't afford it, I've got a 30 dollar Motorola phone.

Anyways, so I took a nap at 5:30, had to explain to my dad why I was, since it's not something I usually do. I tried SSILD beforehand, but I wasn't getting tired, so I used a isotone for sleep. I had a dream, but it wasn't lucid, nor an OBE. But, I did wake up at midnight, almost 7 hours later! So I had a deeper sleep for some reason. I had woken up pretty much completely before I thought to do SSILD, and I figured I had spoiled my chances of that working by doing so (had I?), I decided to do a WBTB with isochronic tones, but was unable to sleep with my headphones in. So, I took them out and went to sleep normally, still trying SSILD. I didn't wake up untill 6:50, a few minutes ago. Still, a deep sleep, but nowhere near lucid. I will note, though, that the dreams I've had were more vivid than I've had in a while, and they apparently lasted longer. But, I find myself still unsuccessful with the methods I've tried. Is the fact that I mix methods not gettting me an LD, does it sound like I'm trying too hard?

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## CosmicIron

> Can't afford it, I've got a 30 dollar Motorola phone.
> 
> Anyways, so I took a nap at 5:30, had to explain to my dad why I was, since it's not something I usually do. I tried SSILD beforehand, but I wasn't getting tired, so I used a isotone for sleep. I had a dream, but it wasn't lucid, nor an OBE. But, I did wake up at midnight, almost 7 hours later! So I had a deeper sleep for some reason. I had woken up pretty much completely before I thought to do SSILD, and I figured I had spoiled my chances of that working by doing so (had I?), I decided to do a WBTB with isochronic tones, but was unable to sleep with my headphones in. So, I took them out and went to sleep normally, still trying SSILD. I didn't wake up untill 6:50, a few minutes ago. Still, a deep sleep, but nowhere near lucid. I will note, though, that the dreams I've had were more vivid than I've had in a while, and they apparently lasted longer. But, I find myself still unsuccessful with the methods I've tried. Is the fact that I mix methods not gettting me an LD, does it sound like I'm trying too hard?



If you can't fall back to sleep then you are trying too hard. Provide me with more details on how you actually performed the technique so I can help you analyze.

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## psychoTR2

Well, I wake up, I analyze any sensations on my body, look at any lights I see with my eyes closed, and listen to any buzzing in my ears. The thing is, though, that I can't seem to stay still or keep my eyes closed when I wake up, so is this impeding me?

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## CosmicIron

> Well, I wake up, I analyze any sensations on my body, look at any lights I see with my eyes closed, and listen to any buzzing in my ears. The thing is, though, that I can't seem to stay still or keep my eyes closed when I wake up, so is this impeding me?



You are not supposed to stay still upon waking up as this is not a DEILD technique, although if you can do it it's certainly helpful. Also, if you meant staying still or trying to keep your eyes close DURING the exercise, then you are definitely not doing it correctly. The key is to be comfortable and relaxed. It is perfectly okay to move while doing SSILD, just make up by doing one more cycles. Another suggestion is to do the cycles in shorter intervals in the begining as it will help you relax more quickly. As you go deeper into the trance, you will more likely to notice various sensations without too much difficulty. Whereas if you focus too much in the begining you may end up adding stress and even risk losing sleep.

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## Xanous

This has been giving me some success. I found that cycling faster at the beginning helps me a lot. I eventually slow down but I started keeping my awareness on the visual part constant while I cycled hearing and touch. Sometimes I had all 3 in awareness. I kept it going way longer than I intended and actually triggered an unintentional WILD. I think I will keep this one in my routine.

EDIT: BTW I think I should mention I *DID* do this at the start of bed time and I *DID* WILD at the start of bedtime. However, It wasn't the best of LDs so I would recommend WBTB first. But don't ever say something *WILL NOT* work. We are all different.  ::D:

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## CosmicIron

> This has been giving me some success. I found that cycling faster at the beginning helps me a lot. I eventually slow down but I started keeping my awareness on the visual part constant while I cycled hearing and touch. Sometimes I had all 3 in awareness. I kept it going way longer than I intended and actually triggered an unintentional WILD. I think I will keep this one in my routine.
> 
> EDIT: BTW I think I should mention I *DID* do this at the start of bed time and I *DID* WILD at the start of bedtime. However, It wasn't the best of LDs so I would recommend WBTB first. But don't ever say something *WILL NOT* work. We are all different.



You are right. We are all very different. On our forum there is this guy who could always succeed, easily, with SSILD, upon first landing on the bed. To date he already registered more than a hundred LDs/OBEs, and that's within less than a year.

EDIT: I should also mention that he does this with his wife sleeping in his arms...  :tongue2:

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## Aphroditedreams

This sounds great I am going to try this tonight... Sounds a little like dream yoga, but easier.
I will report back too  :-)

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## Sensei

> You are right. We are all very different. On our forum there is this guy who could always succeed, easily, with SSILD, upon first landing on the bed. To date he already registered more than a hundred LDs/OBEs, and that's within less than a year.
> 
> EDIT: I should also mention that he does this with his wife sleeping in his arms...



Wife sleeping in arms is what has been letting me WILD/DEILD and still keep consciousness. I recommend it. :

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## Xanous

Funny. I always want to not touch when I try to induce. May be worth a try.  :smiley:

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## Sensei

That is what I thought at first as well, but then I woke up with my wife cuddling next to me and had a couple DEILDs, and decided to try it for a straight WILD and got it as well. DEILDs ever since though.  :smiley:

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## Aphroditedreams

Okay can't believe it guys it worked! I had a lucid dream... first on in months!! I am surprised it worked because my husband was snoring in my ear and then my son woke up with a nightmare while I was doing it... then I couldn't fall asleep forever. Well I remembered what was said about it causing false awakenings so I did the noseplug method whenever I "woke" 
Two times I did realize I was dreaming when I was in my bed and could still breath with my nose plugged. I tried to get up and I woke.. I still could not sleep, then I ended up doing another noseplug and realized I was dreaming again this time I was able to get up from my bed. 
I had a ten minute lucid dream... I floated in the air, walked around my neighborhood naked, went inside a giant hollow tree and made some things levitate. 
After that I decided to wake myself up because I don't have great dream recall yet and I wanted to write it all down. 
I am exhausted today and feel like I didn't get any sleep but I'm really excited I finally found an easy method that works for me. Thanks!!  ::banana::

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## Xanous

> You are right. We are all very different. On our forum there is this guy who could always succeed, easily, with SSILD, upon first landing on the bed. To date he already registered more than a hundred LDs/OBEs, and that's within less than a year.
> 
> EDIT: I should also mention that he does this with his wife sleeping in his arms...



Who is this guy you speak of? Is he a Dream Views member or another forum? I would really like to ask him some questions. BTW I didn't mean to come across as hostile in my previous post. I'm always worried about that after the fact  ::D:

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## CosmicIron

> Who is this guy you speak of? Is he a Dream Views member or another forum? I would really like to ask him some questions. BTW I didn't mean to come across as hostile in my previous post. I'm always worried about that after the fact



He is not on this forum but I'm very familiar with his routine since he keeps his progress in very detailed logs on our forum and we stay in close touch. So basically you can just ask me and I can always forward your question to him in case I don't already know the answer. I didn't find any of your previous posts hostile so no worries.  :smiley:

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## itsok

Evening, i have question to the OP, coz im not sure i understand the exercise totally correctly.
So when i start the practise, first i try to see things flashes(i can most of the time),after this try to hear ringing,buzzing in my ears?And the third one?I need to feel my palm/finger(and the other bodyparts) touches the bed as im lying on the bed?
How long need to do 1 of the 3?And after the first(15-20secs?) go to the second and 3rd?

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## itsok

Ok, i found the answeres for my questions after reading couple of pages at ld4all.Someone asked the same things as i wanted to, and there he got answeres.
By the way i tried this 3 times, once for 'go to bed' time, once after wake up naturally in the mid of the night, and once after half an hour i got up in the mourning.Couple notes and more questions.

No lucidities yet, but when i woke up first time at night, i felt something wierd.No lucids but it seemed to me, i was more awake in my dream at night than in the regulars.Hard to say sorry :smiley: 
When i've tried couple hours ago, i was wide awake, but i go to bed again.I found with this tech is extremely easy to relax, and go deeper and deeper very soon.
But im not sure i do the 'body scan' part correctly.I try to notice if my bodyparts have a wierd feeling. and then i imagine to move my legs arms head, another position.Is that right?
I have not problem with the other two ,(try) to seeing flashes, and hear voices.If i can see(not vivid pictures, just yellow  flashes) may i go through to the next step after half a minute?
And about the hearing thing.If im at dead quiet places, i always hear in my ears ringing.Is this ok?I concentrate to hear it more and more, and it takes no effort to me at all :smiley: 

Interesting thing, i have had no chance to turn into lucid after i go back to bed after 6 hours of sleep.I did the cycles, and fell asleep, and my timing was right, coz i slep 1 hour and started with a dream, but no lucid.
Hope u all understand what i wanted to say.

Oh and forgot to mention, i tried in the past couple days to wake up without open my eyes, and not moving at all, without success.But this night and mourning i could do that.So it is usuful for those who wanted to practise the waking up without any move for deild too.
I wake up 3 times and did that all 3 times.I dont know is it because of this tech, but it seems it helps for this too.At least suspicious.

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## CosmicIron

> Ok, i found the answeres for my questions after reading couple of pages at ld4all.Someone asked the same things as i wanted to, and there he got answeres.
> By the way i tried this 3 times, once for 'go to bed' time, once after wake up naturally in the mid of the night, and once after half an hour i got up in the mourning.Couple notes and more questions.
> 
> No lucidities yet, but when i woke up first time at night, i felt something wierd.No lucids but it seemed to me, i was more awake in my dream at night than in the regulars.Hard to say sorry
> When i've tried couple hours ago, i was wide awake, but i go to bed again.I found with this tech is extremely easy to relax, and go deeper and deeper very soon.
> But im not sure i do the 'body scan' part correctly.I try to notice if my bodyparts have a wierd feeling. and then i imagine to move my legs arms head, another position.Is that right?
> I have not problem with the other two ,(try) to seeing flashes, and hear voices.If i can see(not vivid pictures, just yellow  flashes) may i go through to the next step after half a minute?
> And about the hearing thing.If im at dead quiet places, i always hear in my ears ringing.Is this ok?I concentrate to hear it more and more, and it takes no effort to me at all
> 
> ...



The most important part to remember with this tech is this -- do NOT expect it to work WHILE you are doing it. If during the exercise you get strange sensations that's great, and if you go straight into LDs from it well that's even better! However, you should always consider that as moments of luck, and learn not to pursue them. 

Having said all that, there will be times which you encounter intense imagery, sounds, body sensations, and kinesthetic  illusions. When those do happen, you should stop cycling and focus on observing the sensation without getting excited. You can also try pushing them a little bit mentally to make them more intense, but do not do it too eagerly. 

It is fine to hear ringing noises when quiet. Actually you WANT to hear that! As for feeling the body, there is no set rules. You can focus on just some parts like your hands, feet, etc., or you can scan your body head to toe. Again, if you don't feel anything unusual that's perfectly okay! 

Another advise I like to give -- do the first few cycles more quickly then slow down gradually. When you just begin cycling, your mind and boy are not yet ready; therefore no matter how much attention you focus you still won't feel anything and if you keep on forcing it you create tension which is no good. After a few quick cycles though, you begin to get closer to the trance. At this point you will find it has become much easier for you to observe the various sensations without much effort!

As for this method helping you stay still upon waking up, I'd say your observation is correct. SSILD is good at producing realistic FAs so basically these moments which you think you have awakened are indeed FAs! Because they are FAs they are much easier to deal with -- even if you forgot to stay still for some brief moments you still will be fine!

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## itsok

ty, maybe i missed a nose plug RC while those awakenings, if it was FAs :smiley: 
Good to mention to do the first couple cycles shorter, i didnt pay attention for it.But i can hear the slight ringing noise in my ears, right after i close my eyes.
I tried to dont pay attention for it, when i do the body scan, or the (try) seeing flashes.I focuse  on the ringing only when i am at that step.

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## TankTan38

Is it best to wake up during REM to do this technique?

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## itsok

Think so.
But i tried this tech the last 3 days when i went to bed first time too.And then again when i woke up in the night, and/or in the mourning.
I did this this mourning after 5 hours of sleep, when i woke up, get out of bed, breakfast,cigarettes, and went back to bed, then starting the exercise of the ssild.I did the cycles about 4-5 times, and fell asleep.I think i woke up, with massive body sensation i was vibrating strongly or something.It was strong enaugh.But i did the nose rc and failed :Sad: 
Then i fell asleep again, and get 1 hour of sleep with non lucid dream.

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## CosmicIron

> Think so.
> But i tried this tech the last 3 days when i went to bed first time too.And then again when i woke up in the night, and/or in the mourning.
> I did this this mourning after 5 hours of sleep, when i woke up, get out of bed, breakfast,cigarettes, and went back to bed, then starting the exercise of the ssild.I did the cycles about 4-5 times, and fell asleep.I think i woke up, with massive body sensation i was vibrating strongly or something.It was strong enaugh.But i did the nose rc and failed
> Then i fell asleep again, and get 1 hour of sleep with non lucid dream.



During the vibration stage, the ability to move your dream body instead of the physical body in fact is, a skill, which can be trained and improved. When in deep trance and SP, whenever you move it's likely you are moving your dream body. However, there will be times when you are sort of in the middle, between things. In this case, if your focus/awareness is on the physicals then you move your real body; on the other hand, if you focus on the dream side then you can move your dream body. I can this Focus Point of Awareness. As you become better at shifting this focus point, it is not impossible to shift it while being wide awake, without going into sleeps first at all. There is a post about this, let me see if I can find it for you... Ok here it is: 

http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/theory...4/#post1930739

Next time you are in the trance, don't abruptly move to do RCs. Instead, try to feel the subtle dream hand -- it is very light and can be moved without physical effort, and slowly raise it to reach for your nose. This will increase the chance to succeed with the RC as well as helping you shift the focus to the dream.

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## itsok

Thank u very much i will read the posted link this late evening, couz i dont have much time, and will take my questions if i'll have one.
But this post was useful, coz i didnt know what i was doing wrong, coz the sensation was suberb intensive, it felt like i will maybe vibrating off the bed to floor.Was wierd.
But i thought it was FA, that's why i tried immidiatly the nose plug RC.So it wasnt FA?Im asking this because, i felt i fell asleep and went some elapsed time, and just happened after that.So it wasnt during the ssild exercise.

Quick note: As i said it was the 5th or 6th time to try this tech, and i think i was so close to reach something result, because i did the cycles at least 5 times.(The previous attempts only took 2-3)And the timing was good too, coz i had regular dreams in this one hour, just after i fell asleep after the trance.
It was close and gives me more hope.And again, why i did the rc right after i noticed this state, coz i though it was fa.If u have false awakening u dont need to care about to trying move only ur dream arms, right??Coz u only can move that if u try anyway.
Thanks
EDIT
I've read the posted theory about SSILD, it was very interesting!I am hoping so much i can get that state where i was in the mourning's attempt.Yeah maybe i didnt do enaugh cycles at the attempts before.I did today 5-6 and it looked good.Especially after read that linked post, i will know what i need to try at the massive vibrationin state.Just reach that often,able me to keep trying :smiley:

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## itsok

*Hi all*

This tech is really do something, i've had a False awakening this mourning.I did not RCed haha..I know for sure that was FA coz, when i woke up IRL, i remembered i met somewho in my room after get up.
Honestly i was surprised the tech almost drive me into success, coz i've problems the last two days in my case while doing the exercise.I feel my legs very nervous, and this is not a sign to roll over, coz i feel it right after a lay down.I'm sure you all know what i mean with this feeling.It's like u wanna shake ur legs, or kick in the air couple times, becouse ur legs are nervous.
This is terrible for the SSILD cycles, becouse 1,U wanna finish the cycles soon, and roll over to your side to fall asleep 2, your mind wont wondering couz the feelings in your leg disturb you.
But surprisingly a had a FA anyway.I did couple times the cycles, and it looked not too good while doing that, coz my mind didnt wondered, and didnt poped up random thoughts,And I had not to go back to to cycles in mind, coz didnt wondered even once.
I dont know why appered this problem with my legs, i had no problem the first couple days when i tried this tech about a week ago.Hope it will desappear, coz doing the cycles is uncomfortable in the last two days.

----------


## itsok

I dont know why the hell occoured this problem with my legs..Its really strange.It ruins my attempts for making it perfectly.I found this tech very useful, not just for about lucid dreaming, but it is amazing relaxation technique.Or it was?Coz it doesnt work even for relaxation couple days ago, coz my damn legs.I feel nervous in them, and have to move.Uncomfortable the whole exercise,and cant relax so well, like in the first couple days when i found this tech.Hope it will desappear soon, maybe i should search the web for fixing this problem.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I dont know why the hell occoured this problem with my legs..Its really strange.It ruins my attempts for making it perfectly.I found this tech very useful, not just for about lucid dreaming, but it is amazing relaxation technique.Or it was?Coz it doesnt work even for relaxation couple days ago, coz my damn legs.I feel nervous in them, and have to move.Uncomfortable the whole exercise,and cant relax so well, like in the first couple days when i found this tech.Hope it will desappear soon, maybe i should search the web for fixing this problem.



That does happen to me sometimes too. It's not the technique but a condition as it happens with every technique I've used. I find it is normally caused by me being physically exhausted but mentally still excited. I suggest when this happens, don't force it. It's a sign that you are not getting enough rest. We always have another chance to LD  :smiley:

----------


## itsok

Sorry but u meant when i feel it in my legs(its not very strong,but annoying), dont force the ssild cycles, and wait for another mourning with the next attempt, if i wont feel that time?

By the way, it is familiar when u go to bed ,but im feeling it currently now too ::roll:: 
(Sitting on a chair)  :smiley:

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## itsok

Another FA this mourning after wbtb/ssild
Already had 2 FAs, and 1 extremely strong body vibration state, becouse of this tech in about 1 week.Need to use to the reality checks after waking up IRL.Im already working on it, this is great if the FAs happening this often, it should be a dream sign to do RCs.

Oh and forgot.Interesting thing i go back to sleep not the same room, when i was sleeping at night, and the false awakening happened in this unusual another room,where i was actually laying.

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## Sinok

There's been a few conflicting comments in this thread, so if you could clarify that would be great.

You said the idea was like self-hypnosis, it's not a way to get into sleep paralysis, but to "massage" your brain so it'll be easier to become lucid in a dream. (the massage part is from another thread for anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about)

However, in response to MadMonkey's comment you wrote:





> When the HIs and vibrations get intense you should immediately do a nose RC and get up. Do not wait for it to die down because you will likely just wake up as you introduce more rational thoughts into the process. Getting real close!



Shouldn't he be ignoring it and just going to sleep afterwards?

----------


## CosmicIron

> There's been a few conflicting comments in this thread, so if you could clarify that would be great.
> 
> You said the idea was like self-hypnosis, it's not a way to get into sleep paralysis, but to "massage" your brain so it'll be easier to become lucid in a dream. (the massage part is from another thread for anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about)
> 
> However, in response to MadMonkey's comment you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't he be ignoring it and just going to sleep afterwards?



This is from the original article of SSILD:

"5. A WILD or direct OBE. Phase entrance may occur during the repetition, with your mind still awake. When this happens, many of the sensations become amplified. You should stop doing any further exercises, and begin focusing on the sensations until you successfully enter the phase. "

----------


## Sinok

So basically just go with the flow.. I'm not sure I can differentiate between a "phase entrance" or just "sensations" but I guess that's subjective anyway. Thanks for the reply!

----------


## noxumbra

I count 3 senses in your post, ...sight,sound,feeling ..we don't need to include smell ? .. just the three ?
And is 5 cycles enough ? ...its only 5 minutes ?

JP

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## Sensei

> I count 3 senses in your post, ...sight,sound,feeling ..we don't need to include smell ? .. just the three ?
> And is 5 cycles enough ? ...its only 5 minutes ?
> 
> JP



In bed there is normally nothing to smell or taste.

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## noxumbra

Last night I tried SSILD..after 2 cycles, i felt from what i can describe a small vibratiob.
Or maybe a small energy tingle....after that i think i fell asleep. Is this normal?...

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## ExtraSour

So if this technique causes a lot of false awakenings i am definitely going to sleep with a sleep mask on. That way if i do have a false awakening and i can see i know I'm either dreaming or I had a False Awakening  ::D:

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## ExtraSour

I tried this technique last night and i did about 2 of the repetitions and then my mind drifted off on its own i realized it was doing this and i pulled it back after that i did about 2 more repetitions and when i got the the focusing on the body one my body felt very very light like i was kind of floating i didnt want to move cause i knew i wasnt in sleep paralysis and if i moved it would have ruined it. so i finished the 2nd repetitions and turned over and fell asleep like told. now i didnt have an OBE or an LD but i did have one of the most vivid dreams ive ever had. Like in my dream my friend was watching tv and i remembered the show that was on and what it was saying. anyway im going to try again tonight to see what happens

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## MrOMGWTF

It doesn't matter if this technique works or not, when I can't fall asleep it puts me into sleep in minutes  ::D: 

After first repetition I'm almost falling asleep lol.

----------


## CosmicIron

> It doesn't matter if this technique works or not, when I can't fall asleep it puts me into sleep in minutes 
> 
> After first repetition I'm almost falling asleep lol.



That means you are doing it correctly! Now all you need to do is to fine tune your sleep schedule and the length of staying awake prior to the exercise.

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## CanisLucidus

CosmicIron, I have to thank you again for taking the time to share SSILD and answer all of the questions that come up about it.  SSILD is what I used to finally get my 3rd lucid dream several months back, and I've used SSILD for the majority of my LD inductions since then.  This thing just delivers.  Even though I've had success since those early days with MILD (and very recently with WILD), this is the one that I always keep coming back to.  So, many thanks for sharing it and for hanging around even controversy would occasionally flare up.   :smiley: 

I had a question on how best to employ SSILD when supplemented.  I've recently been performing weekly trials w/ galantamine + choline during my WBTB.  This has worked great for inducing SSILD-based WILDs, but I remember you discussing some time back that you use G+C for DILDs (via SSILD) with great success.  I'm really interested in trying my standard DILD-via-SSILD, but G+C seemed to get me so buzzed that I have trouble falling asleep.  That seems to leave WILD as the only option.  In fact, if I don't include a tiny bit of melatonin with the G+C (an idea from Yuschak), I get pretty fierce insomnia for the morning sleep.

I guess my question is what sensation I should be looking for when trying to hit SSILD when using G+C?  Should I be able to quickly fall asleep, just like with typical SSILD?  I'm wondering if the fact that I can't SSILD as quickly as usual is an indication that I need to cut back on my free choline levels (particulary by dropping back on Alpha-GPC).  Or should I just be expecting SSILD to take longer with that ACh buzz going?

I just know that when you are really in the SSILD "sweet spot", you can wake up from one LD, run a few cycles, and then hop right back into another one.  That's an awesome feeling and I think that hitting a stride like that with high ACh levels would be _mind-blowing_.  But it requires a really smooth, easy transition back into sleep.  Have you encountered this particular roadblock yourself?

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## realdealmagic

I will give this a go. Seems like some people are having success with it, so I'll try it out for a week or so  :smiley: 

How long does it take usually to get it going? Do people mostly get it first try, or does it take a few attempts?

----------


## CosmicIron

> CosmicIron, I have to thank you again for taking the time to share SSILD and answer all of the questions that come up about it.  SSILD is what I used to finally get my 3rd lucid dream several months back, and I've used SSILD for the majority of my LD inductions since then.  This thing just delivers.  Even though I've had success since those early days with MILD (and very recently with WILD), this is the one that I always keep coming back to.  So, many thanks for sharing it and for hanging around even controversy would occasionally flare up.  
> 
> I had a question on how best to employ SSILD when supplemented.  I've recently been performing weekly trials w/ galantamine + choline during my WBTB.  This has worked great for inducing SSILD-based WILDs, but I remember you discussing some time back that you use G+C for DILDs (via SSILD) with great success.  I'm really interested in trying my standard DILD-via-SSILD, but G+C seemed to get me so buzzed that I have trouble falling asleep.  That seems to leave WILD as the only option.  In fact, if I don't include a tiny bit of melatonin with the G+C (an idea from Yuschak), I get pretty fierce insomnia for the morning sleep.
> 
> I guess my question is what sensation I should be looking for when trying to hit SSILD when using G+C?  Should I be able to quickly fall asleep, just like with typical SSILD?  I'm wondering if the fact that I can't SSILD as quickly as usual is an indication that I need to cut back on my free choline levels (particulary by dropping back on Alpha-GPC).  Or should I just be expecting SSILD to take longer with that ACh buzz going?
> 
> I just know that when you are really in the SSILD "sweet spot", you can wake up from one LD, run a few cycles, and then hop right back into another one.  That's an awesome feeling and I think that hitting a stride like that with high ACh levels would be _mind-blowing_.  But it requires a really smooth, easy transition back into sleep.  Have you encountered this particular roadblock yourself?



Thank you for this nice post. I feel appreciated and It definitely made the effort feel worthwhile! As for combining SSILD with supplements, I suggest reducing, if not completely eliminate, the time to stay awake during WBTB. Since it takes some time for G+C to cross the blood brain barrier, if you stay awake for too long, then add on top of that the time to do SSILD, you will end up running right into the stage where there are a lot of acetylcholine in your system! While doing so will increase your chance of having a WILD, your risk of getting insomnia is also much higher. With traditional method, this situation is almost inevitable. SSILD, on the other hand, is a perfect solution for this. I suspect this is how it works under the hood -- the repeated stimulation of the senses cause not only increased level of acetylcholine in the brain, but also activate them to some degree. After all, these are neurotransmitters and they won't do any good if they don't ever fire. The SSILD cycles create a need for heightened attention and awareness, which in turn causes the corresponding transmitters to be fired, with some delay. This latency is what enables us to fall asleep after the cycles, and then once the neurotransmitters accumulate and get fired, we reach heightened awareness within our dreams, thus creating DILDs and realistic FAs (being aware that we are sleeping). My personal experience confirms this quite well. My routine goes like this -- 

1. Wake up after 4 hours. Without taking the supplements I usually do it after 5 hours.

2.  Take the pills liberally. No need to worry about insomnia because it's gonna take a while for the stuff to cross the blood brain barrier. Sometimes I mix in L-Dopa and other stuff too.

3. Go to bathroom and then immediately return to bed.

4. Do 2 or 3 really fast cycles, say, a few seconds for each sense and totally don't care about the actual sensations. This is a very good warmup which helps you relax extremely quickly. in fact I find it much more effective than those traditional meditation-derived routines.

5. Do a few slow cycles. At this point you should find it easy to focus on the more internal sensations. For example, if you try very hard to see things in the very beginning, not only you won't see anything, chances are your eye muscle will strain and eventually make it difficult to fall asleep. Now do this after step 4 you will find it much easier to spot things in the darkness behind your closed eyelids without causing any strain. Same thing goes for hearing too. Keep in mind though -- do NOT focus too much at this stage! You shouldn't get attached to the sensations. You should allow your mind to drift and do not fight the desire to fall asleep. It's actually desirable for you to fall into sleep while doing this. 

If you wake up again without having any dreams, chances are you are either experiencing a super realistic FA or missed an entire dream cycle. Don't despair. Just do a couple more cycles and sleep again. Or, you could try to relax the back of your head and allow it to sink into your pillow, while focusing slightly on the hearing. With practice you can use this technique to induce instant WILD. There are more to this technique but that's an entirely different topic so I won't elaborate here.

I hope this helps! Good luck and happy dreaming!

----------


## CosmicIron

> I will give this a go. Seems like some people are having success with it, so I'll try it out for a week or so 
> 
> How long does it take usually to get it going? Do people mostly get it first try, or does it take a few attempts?



It depends... If you do it correctly it is very possible for it to work the very fist time. I have seen numerous such success stories. However, there are many common mistakes that people tend to do, which will result in less than optimal result. Therefore I suggest you read the entire thread closely before attempting the exercise. There are LOTS of good information buried in this thread.

----------


## MrOMGWTF

Hey CosmicIron,

I'm testing this technique for 30 days, and writing down results of each day.
I'm at the day 2 now. When I did the SSILD, It felt like I've been doing it for like one hour. It was because I think I felt asleep during second cycle and then woke up, and finished 3 more. 
Later then I had feeling that I can't fall asleep, but it was FA I believe. And suddenly I woke up for real, still being calm and relaxed, I started hearing high pitched noise in my head. It wasn't distracting at all. It sounded like this: Zippyshare.com - hi pitch.mp3

I think I misread your post, and I started to concentrate on that noise. It faded away.
What was that?

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hey CosmicIron,
> 
> I'm testing this technique for 30 days, and writing down results of each day.
> I'm at the day 2 now. When I did the SSILD, It felt like I've been doing it for like one hour. It was because I think I felt asleep during second cycle and then woke up, and finished 3 more. 
> Later then I had feeling that I can't fall asleep, but it was FA I believe. And suddenly I woke up for real, still being calm and relaxed, I started hearing high pitched noise in my head. It wasn't distracting at all. It sounded like this: Zippyshare.com - hi pitch.mp3
> 
> I think I misread your post, and I started to concentrate on that noise. It faded away.
> What was that?



Your observation was correct. Basically you slipped into sleep while doing the cycles and then wake up in an FA while still doing the cycles. This is not uncommon and you will eventually learn to differentiate it from real insomnia. As for the high pitched noise, it is a common sensation associated with phase entrance. When you hear that it is a good indication you are already in a phase. Try to slowly raise your hand (without using the muscles) and reach for your nose to do a nose pinch RC. Chances are you will succeed and you can just roll out of the bed to enjoy an OBE. Concentrating on it will cause it to go away and eventually wake yourself out of the trance. You can also try to observing it passively and raise its levels with just the right amount of mental effort, but that can take some practice. Anyway, you were REALLY REALLY close.

----------


## MrOMGWTF

> Your observation was correct. Basically you slipped into sleep while doing the cycles and then wake up in an FA while still doing the cycles. This is not uncommon and you will eventually learn to differentiate it from real insomnia. As for the high pitched noise, it is a common sensation associated with phase entrance. When you hear that it is a good indication you are already in a phase. Try to slowly raise your hand (without using the muscles) and reach for your nose to do a nose pinch RC. Chances are you will succeed and you can just roll out of the bed to enjoy an OBE. Concentrating on it will cause it to go away and eventually wake yourself out of the trance. You can also try to observing it passively and raise its levels with just the right amount of mental effort, but that can take some practice. Anyway, you were REALLY REALLY close.



No word can express how thankful I am right now, so I'll just say thank you. 
You know, I don't believe in some OBEs and stuff like this. Is that the same as Lucid Dream?

----------


## CosmicIron

> No word can express how thankful I am right now, so I'll just say thank you. 
> You know, I don't believe in some OBEs and stuff like this. Is that the same as Lucid Dream?



IMHO, OBE really should be called out-of-body-like-experience. It's not exactly the same as LD, if we view them from the perspective of an "experience". However, the claim that OBE is the result of soul leaving body, or in astral projection terms the astral body being projected into different objective realities, is FALSE, IMO. I've had many thousands of OBE/LDs, and I have been able to observe the formation process of these experiences, as well as the subtle links between mind and body. Many people and authors go extra length to describe certain glorified experiences, in elaborate details often, but I feel the truth actually lies in the less glorious ones. Ones that they either ignored, never experienced, or deliberately camouflaged. This is one topic I wish to address eventually in the future but I won't do it here. I've received my fair shares of flames on this forum so I have no intention to attract more  :smiley:

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## Venryx

Just had my own lucid dream from this! 

And not just a lucid dream, but also two strong false awakenings. (It even captured the details of my parent's room, which I rarely sleep in, and my younger brother sleeping next to me!)

I recorded it all here: Lucid Dream 15 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Thanks so much, CosmicIron!

----------


## CosmicIron

> Just had my own lucid dream from this! 
> 
> And not just a lucid dream, but also two strong false awakenings. (It even captured the details of my parent's room, which I rarely sleep in, and my younger brother sleeping next to me!)
> 
> I recorded it all here: Lucid Dream 15 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
> 
> Thanks so much, CosmicIron!



Thank YOU! I'm very happy to hear this technique worked for you. Your experience is another testimony of the technique's ability to produce frequent and extremely realistic FAs. Good luck and may you have more success! Feel free to ask if you have any questions regarding the technique. I will help as best as I can.

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## Venryx

Fantastic!

I had my first OBE, another lucid dream, and 4 more false awakenings using this technique.

I recorded it all here: Lucid Dream 17 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I'm really starting to think this method has something significant going for it. I'm going to continue testing.

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## CosmicIron

> Fantastic!
> 
> I had my first OBE, another lucid dream, and 4 more false awakenings using this technique.
> 
> I recorded it all here: Lucid Dream 17 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
> 
> I'm really starting to think this method has something significant going for it. I'm going to continue testing.



Very fasinating experience indeed! I enjoyed reading it. Thank you!

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## Gooeythrough12

Thank you for this method!
Im not sure, but i think i had an obe!
I remember waking up at around 5:45 because my hamsters knocked something over and were making a lot of noise. I decided to try a method and chose this one. I remember pondering whether to go on my back or side, but i went with side and i don't even think i had time to much time to even do anything because i was so tired i just fell asleep. Now this is where it gets confusing. I remember being in my room and jumping while saying "im having an obe!" but it was in third person view, which you're not supposed to have during an obe. Then it suddenly moved to normal view and i screamed "I can fly now!" and i jumped through my wall and flew over some trees. Time passed and i was looking over and ocean at a city skyline. I decided to go back to my body, so i said "i want to go back to my body" and everything became very blurry and i believe i woke up. This seemed a little to dream like, and im not sure if had a lucid dream or an obe

----------


## CosmicIron

> Thank you for this method!
> Im not sure, but i think i had an obe!
> I remember waking up at around 5:45 because my hamsters knocked something over and were making a lot of noise. I decided to try a method and chose this one. I remember pondering whether to go on my back or side, but i went with side and i don't even think i had time to much time to even do anything because i was so tired i just fell asleep. Now this is where it gets confusing. I remember being in my room and jumping while saying "im having an obe!" but it was in third person view, which you're not supposed to have during an obe. Then it suddenly moved to normal view and i screamed "I can fly now!" and i jumped through my wall and flew over some trees. Time passed and i was looking over and ocean at a city skyline. I decided to go back to my body, so i said "i want to go back to my body" and everything became very blurry and i believe i woke up. This seemed a little to dream like, and im not sure if had a lucid dream or an obe



LOL. It appears that you had relatively low lucidity during it, and that was probably due to the fact you fell asleep so quickly. However this is indeed an genuine SSILD experience. As for whether this is an OBE or LD, my opinion is that they are not all that different, certainly not in the sense of LDs being dreams while OBEs being soul leaving body or astral entity entering objective realities.

----------


## iareHuuman

I tried this last night and the results were shocking. I've always had trouble sleeping (30 minutes until sleep on the best nights) and last night after several cycles I found myself getting extremely close to sleep, and even felt the "falling" sensation once. Next thing that happened was, I was extremely close, and then all of a sudden i felt my eyelids twitching really bad, and I noticed that my eyes had been open for the last minute or so. After trying for about 8 more cycles I finally fell to sleep.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I tried this last night and the results were shocking. I've always had trouble sleeping (30 minutes until sleep on the best nights) and last night after several cycles I found myself getting extremely close to sleep, and even felt the "falling" sensation once. Next thing that happened was, I was extremely close, and then all of a sudden i felt my eyelids twitching really bad, and I noticed that my eyes had been open for the last minute or so. After trying for about 8 more cycles I finally fell to sleep.



Based on our experience, the eye-open sensation is frequently illusionary than real, which happens when you are on the verge of entering a dream. For example, one may think she has openned her eyes and even sees the ambient light, but in reality it is late at night and the bedroom is completely dark.

----------


## Venryx

Another lucid, and four more false awakenings.

Here's the account: Lucid Dream 18 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

----------


## dreamer7

ive tried this a couple of times but i have a hard time remembering how long 20 seconds is without counting..........

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## Aks

Hi,

I stumbled upon this info (SSILD technique) while browsing for meaning of certain dreams!

I found it interesting and thought I'll try it for fun, as this was my first encounter with
All the kinds of lucid dreaming techniques you people are talking about in short forms!!

With little experience of meditation I tried your technique for the first time but I got distracted by my unchecked 
daily alarm. The very next time it WORKED!!! I was astonished with the INCREDIBLE experience!!!
I experienced OBE > LD > OBE and FA which ultimately lead to real awaking!!!

I would like to share my experience with a twist! In the hope of some contribution to further development 
Of this amazing and simple technique.

I followed every step as you mentioned carefully till the point where you have recommended sinking 
into a pillow as I thought I am not going to naturally fall asleep and subconsciously kept on repeating  
the steps again.

In the first step I was trying to imagine my girlfriend but mixed it with many other images in process.
Still i was unable to sleep at this point i gave up! But thought of just giving it a try by falling asleep while
Simply focusing on slide show of the pictures I wanted to experience in LD as step 1 followed by other steps
As you mentioned and within few minutes I was In OBE (I think immediately after trying to roll out of bed!
though I didn't encounter anybody I wanted to as in slide show!!) Floating in my room, with which I got so
excited that in the rush and bit of fright woke up opened the door of my room and saw my sister studying only to wake up again for real!

I have to queries,
1. How to make dreams more lucid?
2. How to guide LD to experience what you (consciously) want to experience in LD
    while using SSILD?

Please let me know! 

I have also started experimenting with this proposition and would defiantly share 
With you all as I progress!

Thank you for sharing this technique!

A+

----------


## CosmicIron

> ive tried this a couple of times but i have a hard time remembering how long 20 seconds is without counting..........



There is no need to count. The 20 seconds is just for your reference.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hi,
> 
> I stumbled upon this info (SSILD technique) while browsing for meaning of certain dreams!
> 
> I found it interesting and thought I'll try it for fun, as this was my first encounter with
> All the kinds of lucid dreaming techniques you people are talking about in short forms!!
> 
> With little experience of meditation I tried your technique for the first time but I got distracted by my unchecked 
> daily alarm. The very next time it WORKED!!! I was astonished with the INCREDIBLE experience!!!
> ...



Congratulations on your success! As for your questions, I have difficulty to provide you with a concise answer... there are entire books written just to answer these questions, LOL. I can give you a few tips though:

To make dreams more lucid (I assume you meant to achieve higher lucidity) it is important to tell yourself that you are dreaming all the time. Set short-term goals of what you want to accomplish -- it's basically micro-managing. Even stuff like "running up that stair" should be treated like a goal, and immediately after accomplishing it you set another one.

You can of course also try shouting in the dream, such as "More lucidity now!". This works sometimes, but not all the time.

As for how to experience what you want to experience, it really has nothing to do with what technique you use to induce the LD. A lot of people tend to use the "direct" approach such as trying to manipulate dreams mentally. This is difficult because we don't really believe in our ability to accomplish the task. It is a lot easier to use the "indirect" approach. For example, opening a door might lead you to somewhere new. Reaching behind that corner might allow you pull out the person you wish to see. A trick I find particularly useful is to use your hands. That's right, if you want something to happen, just use your hand! For example, you can paint on a wall and make it become real. It's much easier than just using your imagination.

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## CosmicIron

Guys, I revised the SSILD tutorial but I'm not able to edit the original post here. Therefore please check out my blog for the latest document should you be interested: Cosmic Iron's Blog

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## lucsande

A couple of questions, CosmicIron.

1)In the new tutorial, you advocate for a some quick cycles, and after that you go for the longer ones. The longer ones have also gone from 20 seconds up to 30 seconds. Does it considerally improve the technic?

2) Supposing I lose count of how many cycles I have already done, should I estimate, do one more, or begin all over again and do 4 more cycles?

3) If during a cycle I realize, for instance, that staring at my closed eyelids has begun giving some minor response, like dots or patterns... should I move on to hearing, or should I continue the sight step until it develops into a lucid dream?


Thanks a lot, I am gonna try this technic out  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> A couple of questions, CosmicIron.
> 
> 1)In the new tutorial, you advocate for a some quick cycles, and after that you go for the longer ones. The longer ones have also gone from 20 seconds up to 30 seconds. Does it considerally improve the technic?
> 
> 2) Supposing I lose count of how many cycles I have already done, should I estimate, do one more, or begin all over again and do 4 more cycles?
> 
> 3) If during a cycle I realize, for instance, that staring at my closed eyelids has begun giving some minor response, like dots or patterns... should I move on to hearing, or should I continue the sight step until it develops into a lucid dream?
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot, I am gonna try this technic out



My answers:

1. Yes the dual-mode of cycles considerably outperforms the original single-mode design. Use the quick cycles to help you relax quickly, and the slow ones to absorb you into the trance. You will find focusing on the sensations become MUCH easier and more comfortable after performing the quick cycles. 

2. Just one more cycle should suffice.

3. I cannot stress this more -- do NOT go after the effects. You should NOT be doing the cycles for the sake of producing HIs. Just do the cycles for the sake of doing it, and once you are done you just go sleep. Having said that, should you indeed encounter strong HIs and other sensations, you can stop cycling and try mentally nudge them and once they respond to your mental command and become amplified you can try phase entrance right there.

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## Sensei

Yeah. The new edition of the slow and fast cycles really helped me, hoping for some more LDs from that tonight. Thanks cosmic iron!

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## lucsande

Thanks a lot for the answer, CosmicIron.
I tried the technic last night, no LDs at all. But I got a very vivid dream and I am pretty satisfied for just the first trial.

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## MrOMGWTF

> Thanks a lot for the answer, CosmicIron.
> I tried the technic last night, no LDs at all. But I got a very vivid dream and I am pretty satisfied for just the first trial.



I got my first lucid after 3 days of using this method. Don't expect it working at first day  ::|:

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## lucsande

I really didn't expect instant results, especially because I am just beginning this LD thing and therefore my brain is still learning that reality is a tricky concept. But I got much more vividness just out of the first time. It was such a great feeling that I am sure to stick a little longer to this technic after even bigger results  :smiley:

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## lucsande

One last question: why is this Senses Initiated Lucid Dream technic called SSILD, with double S? Just wondering...

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## CosmicIron

> One last question: why is this Senses Initiated Lucid Dream technic called SSILD, with double S? Just wondering...



Because the name SILD has been taken... I think it was "Song Initiated Lucid Dream". Not sure how effective it was, but nonetheless it was there long before SSILD.  :Sad:

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## lucsande

Hahaha, I imagined it was something like that.

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## CosmicIron

> Hi CosmicIron.
> 
> I was wondering if you would consider writing a new SSILD tutorial? Now you have many more people's experiences (including successful and unsuccessful attempts!) that have improved the technique.



Hey Bobble I finally did it. The new tutorial can be found on my blog (DV wont let me edit this post): http://cosmiciron.blogspot.com

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## MrOMGWTF

SSILD sounds better than SILD  :tongue2: 
Way more unique.

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## CosmicIron

> SSILD sounds better than SILD 
> Way more unique.



Haha, that's true. It's much easier to find on google.

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## Mailman

I'm going to try this tonight, seems like it works for a lot of people. Wish me luck!  :smiley:

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## CosmicIron

> I'm going to try this tonight, seems like it works for a lot of people. Wish me luck!



Make sure you read the latest tutorial here: SSILD Tutorial. Good luck!

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## lulapace

Yup, I'm gonna try this tonight.  I'm worried I'm getting a bit of an overload here at DV though.  I can't remember all these techniques I'm supposed to be trying out :p

Anyway, this might be the dumbest question ever, but when you have an FA in your bed, an OBE or your LD starts where you fell asleep or whatever, *what are you wearing?*  I'm asking, because it kind of sounds like you're saying, you could have all these FAs or something resembling an OBE, and so basically you just 'wake up' as you fell asleep.  So, should we be wearing clothes before we go to sleep?  I'm getting worried that if I expect to wake up naked in a LD, then I will.  And I don't think I will have the power to summon clothes just yet xD

Lula x

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## Mailman

Thanks for pointing me to the latest tutorial, I read it last night and I was all excited. Then I messed it up horribly. I hit the snooze button on my phone (which I haven't done in years). Then I woke-up five minutes later, and I was so exhausted that I completely forget what I read. So I did the cycles weirdly and out of order. Anyways, I messed this up so bad I ended up having no recall.  :tongue2:  I'm going to try again tonight.

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## lulapace

Also guys, I read somewhere on this thread (or maybe in the new tutorial...or maybe somewhere else entirely), that you shouldn't try talking to yourself when you find yourself in a LD.  Now, I talk to myself _constantly_, when I'm alone IRL.  Is it that much of a problem when you're in a LD?  Also, will it make your subconscious super-friendly?

Lula x

EDIT: Ok, I've made my way through every post and I'm hoping to try this tonight, but I can't say for certain, because the past few nights I've woken up from terrible nightmares, and when that happens, I can't do anything more than curl up under the covers.  That's why I'm going to bed so late, so hopefully when/if I wake up, it will be light and I won't be so easily creeped.  If I do attempt SSILD, I'll let you know  :smiley:

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## CosmicIron

> Also guys, I read somewhere on this thread (or maybe in the new tutorial...or maybe somewhere else entirely), that you shouldn't try talking to yourself when you find yourself in a LD.  Now, I talk to myself _constantly_, when I'm alone IRL.  Is it that much of a problem when you're in a LD?  Also, will it make your subconscious super-friendly?
> 
> Lula x
> 
> EDIT: Ok, I've made my way through every post and I'm hoping to try this tonight, but I can't say for certain, because the past few nights I've woken up from terrible nightmares, and when that happens, I can't do anything more than curl up under the covers.  That's why I'm going to bed so late, so hopefully when/if I wake up, it will be light and I won't be so easily creeped.  If I do attempt SSILD, I'll let you know



Talking to yourself while in LD will likely cause the dream become unstable. As for subconscious being friendly or hostile... I think it actually partially depends on you. If you are friendly it will react accordingly. One way to counter nightmares and fearful creatures is to show friendliness and compassion toward them.

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## Sensei

Talking to yourself in an LD is fine. Saying things like "I'm dreaming" will keep you aware. I do it every day.

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## CosmicIron

> Talking to yourself in an LD is fine. Saying things like "I'm dreaming" will keep you aware. I do it every day.



Brandon, you are right but I'd consider that a special case. In general though a lot of inner-conversation will result in pre-mature awakening or other instability within the dream.

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## lulapace

Gahhh, first LD this morning!!!  Yeah, so in the end, after hours of moping about, I went to sleep about half 3 in the morning, after practically running from the bathroom to my room, despite having all the lights, bar one, on - yeah I am _that_ weird about the dark/night/monsters.  I woke up at around 7:40 and thought about doing the SSILD.  So I did, but my thoughts kept on wandering and in what I presumed was not a good way, because I was just thinking about how I would write-up everything I was doing, you know, "Hmm, this worked for me.  Then this happened." etc.  I fell asleep and woke up quickly, but it definitely wasn't a FA and if it was, it was insanely realistic.  I did about 3 different RCs and they all failed.  Anyway, I kept on doing the cycles, nothing much happened in them, but you said that's fine.  The feelings one was good, lots of tingles and vibrations and the hearing one was the worst, because it is well busy here day and night and my clock ticks  :tongue2:   But anyway, I thought it was difficult to fall asleep, but then I did and had some dreams.  I know they were dreams, but I wasn't lucid.  I was in my bed, right where I left myself, but I was on my computer.  It didn't feel like a FA, it felt like a dream, but I wasn't aware (I think I tried doing RCs though, I can't remember clearly now).  Anyway, I don't know what happened next, but I woke up in my bed and my computer was there, but it was going wappy and strange stuff was happening on it and I knew I was dreaming!  I looked at my hand and could only see it's outline and it was kind of hard to keep track on.  And I said, "Omg, I'm dreaming!"  My voice felt really thick and distorted and I felt like I was losing the dream, so...I rubbed my hands together!! It worked.  I got out of bed and practically skipped across the room towards my door.  Unfortunately, I didn't concentrate on gaining more lucidity or control, I just shouted in a kind of weird super-hero voice, "I will be in Teesside!"  Everything felt thick again, so I crawled around on the floor and I could feel it, I could really feel it.  But that made me even more excited so I woke up.  It was 9:05.  

So, it lasted about 10 seconds and it was kind of gloomy, but it was a LD!!!!!  The feeling was just incredible.

 ::banana:: 






> In general though a lot of inner-conversation will result in pre-mature awakening or other instability within the dream.



Yeah, tbh, it is more of a detailed conversation.  I mean, IRL I don't have a full-blown conversation, because nobody is really answering me except myself, but I do a lot of talking  :tongue2: 

Lula x

EDIT: This is kind of a response to my own question about clothes, but I'm hoping someone can elaborate.  I went to bed in underwear and a jumper (you know, just in case it gets a bit chilly in that lucid world!  :tongue2: )  I was wearing the jumper in the LD dream, but the only point at which I was aware of that was when I was looking at my hand.  I couldn't feel the cold floor until I got down and crawled around on it and I wasn't aware of whether I was wearing clothes or not.  I guess that just comes with better awareness?

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## Ashylus420

hmmm id like to try it.

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## lulapace

> hmmm id like to try it.



Can't hurt  ::D: 

Lula x

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## bluremi

I have tried this technique on and off about a dozen times without success. Then yesterday I read CosmicIron's blog with the excellent description and explanation of the technique, as well as the Q&A section and realized "Hey, I haven't been doing this exactly right."

Last night I decided to follow the instructions on the blog _to the letter_ and *guess what happened?*


Even though it's almost exactly what the instructions say to do, here's what I did along with what the experience was like:

- Went to sleep at 1AM, set my alarm for 6AM (5 hours later)
- When my alarm went off I answered a few emails and then got up to go to the bathroom and get a drink of water. This took 5 minutes.
- I lay down on my back and did 6 quick cycles. They got progressively slower, so I might spend 3-5 seconds per sense in the first one but maybe 6-8 seconds per sense on the last. This happened naturally since I got more relaxed and absent minded.
- Did 4 slow cycles, 30-40 seconds per sense.
- Once I was done I tried to fall asleep, with difficulty. I did some reality checks to make sure I was really awake and then when they failed, I continued to just try to drift off to sleep.
- At some point, I snapped awake. It was like someone tore a blindfold away from my face and a dream version of my bedroom appeared. I knew I was dreaming immediately, almost as if I was expecting it. Perhaps my mind was subconsciously conditioned to be waiting for a dream to happen (just like the guide says).

Thanks CosmicIron, I will continue to try this technique following the instructions to the letter. I enjoy the approach here because usually while monitoring my senses I would be trying to monitor my INTERNAL senses (noises or visions in my head, vs real sensations picked up by my ears and eyes). Here I can just focus on what's really happening, it's much simpler and less stressful.

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## CosmicIron

> I have tried this technique on and off about a dozen times without success. Then yesterday I read CosmicIron's blog with the excellent description and explanation of the technique, as well as the Q&A section and realized "Hey, I haven't been doing this exactly right."
> 
> Last night I decided to follow the instructions on the blog _to the letter_ and *guess what happened?*
> 
> 
> Even though it's almost exactly what the instructions say to do, here's what I did along with what the experience was like:
> 
> - Went to sleep at 1AM, set my alarm for 6AM (5 hours later)
> - When my alarm went off I answered a few emails and then got up to go to the bathroom and get a drink of water. This took 5 minutes.
> ...



Great! That's classic! Now, one thing I forgot to mention in that tutorial is what to do when you try to fall asleep after performing SSILD. Sometimes it is difficult to fall asleep even when we become very drowsy during the exercise. I found this was caused by the "desire" to fall asleep. That's right, when we focus too much on falling asleep it just backfires. Think what you normally do when first going to bed? Do you try very hard to sleep? Perhaps you take your day-time problems with you and drift away while thinking about them? Perhaps you like to tell yourself a little story or do a little bit of role playing? Whatever you do you rarely focus on falling asleep itself. You should do the same after SSILD. There is no need to keep lucid dreaming as the last remaining thought. This is not MILD or mantra. Just do whatever you can to fall asleep ASAP and SSILD will take care of the rest  :smiley:

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## lucsande

Hey, CosmicIron, have you already tested how this technic works by itself? I mean, withput the aid of dream journals and reality checks throughout the day? I was just thinking this technic has some similarities to Raduga's one (As you have already mentioned yourself) and apparently his technic works well all by itself. Maybe it is the case with SSILD too?

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## CosmicIron

> Hey, CosmicIron, have you already tested how this technic works by itself? I mean, withput the aid of dream journals and reality checks throughout the day? I was just thinking this technic has some similarities to Raduga's one (As you have already mentioned yourself) and apparently his technic works well all by itself. Maybe it is the case with SSILD too?



I do not use any other techniques nowadays, and SSILD gives me 100% success rate. I occasionally record dreams but only the interesting ones. I do not perform reality checks or other similar stuff such as all-day-awareness (I used to, many years ago) throughout the day as I believe they are not effective and based on false theories. 

In all, I believe SSILD can be used as an effective standalone technique. In fact, I believe it performs better without other techniques interfering. The only exceptions are WBTB, dream journaling, and perhaps mantras, which are supplementary techniques to begin with.

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## DinoSawr

Cosmic:

I recently had a bit of success with this technique (I have had 2 total instances,) but every other time I attempt the technique it seems that I either fall asleep or get distracted, even on the quick cycling stage! I don't feel like I'm too tired, but this distraction or falling asleep almost always seems to occur. Do you have any suggestions? I am still unsure what was different about the two times I had success with the cycling. Is it possible that I'm waking up at a wrong time and my body is trying to go back into NREM sleep instead of a dream?

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## lucsande

> I do not use any other techniques nowadays, and SSILD gives me 100% success rate. I occasionally record dreams but only the interesting ones. I do not perform reality checks or other similar stuff such as all-day-awareness (I used to, many years ago) throughout the day as I believe they are not effective and based on false theories. 
> 
> In all, I believe SSILD can be used as an effective standalone technique. In fact, I believe it performs better without other techniques interfering. The only exceptions are WBTB, dream journaling, and perhaps mantras, which are supplementary techniques to begin with.



Even ADA? I had the impression everybody thought it to be the most effective supplement to lucid dreaming.

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## CosmicIron

> Cosmic:
> 
> I recently had a bit of success with this technique (I have had 2 total instances,) but every other time I attempt the technique it seems that I either fall asleep or get distracted, even on the quick cycling stage! I don't feel like I'm too tired, but this distraction or falling asleep almost always seems to occur. Do you have any suggestions? I am still unsure what was different about the two times I had success with the cycling. Is it possible that I'm waking up at a wrong time and my body is trying to go back into NREM sleep instead of a dream?



That could well be the case. I suggest tweaking with your schedules a bit to see what the differences that makes. Also don't worry too much about distractions. Just stay as comfortable as possible, and if that means moving around then by all means do it. Remember, you don't have to feel anything during the cycles. Just do plenty of them and go to sleep. Magic happens after that  :smiley:

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## keudbybor

So after reading the majority of this thread I decided to post my results!  Let me give some background info: About two weeks ago I have had trouble falling asleep.  I just couldn't do it no matter what I tried.  Hoping to find some answers I came onto this forum and used the search function to try to find a technique to just help fall asleep let alone lucid dream.  I found a post that mentioned a technique called SSILD just while glancing through the results.  I found this thread after some research and read all about the technique and how to do it.  Since it seemed to give the mind something to think about while falling asleep I thought it might be the help I needed to get a good night's rest.  Turned out it was, and much more!  I would use it at the beginning of the night just to help me fall asleep and it worked wonders.  I then started to notice some interesting side effects: increased dream recall, more vivid dreams, better sleeping patterns and whatnot (probably due to me actually falling asleep XD).  I began to read the forum some more and after a week of using this as my new sleep aid I decided to set a WBTB alarm and try my hand at some lucid dreaming, something I haven't done in a long time...here are my steps and results for my first serious try: 

               -I set my alarm to go off in exactly 5 and a half hours and then used the technique to fall asleep.
               -My alarm woke me up, and even though I was really drowsy I knew what I needed to do because the last thing I did before falling asleep was cycling through the technique.  I set my alarm for 90 minutes so that I wouldn't oversleep and would have (more or less) a whole sleep cycle to use
               -I was still feeling drowsy, but I sat upright in bed and stared forward until my drowsiness was gone.  I now knew it was time to begin
               -I layed on my back and began doing the cycles...
                       -I stared into the darkness, nothing at first but then started seeing waves of colors wash over my eyelids the more cycles i did
                       -I listened to the ringing in my ears, mentally focusing on them and making my perception of it louder, almost deafening
                       -I then focused on my body as a whole, feeling for tingles, but also stimulating the area between my eyes (by thinking about it...something I always do to induce a tingle sensation)
               -After about 5-6 cycles my mind began to wander, and my drowsiness came back so I went to sleep

Once I went back to sleep I remember a few vivid dreams, but nothing too spectacular.  I then woke up after a certain ammount of time, but i remember the most distinct feeling to close my eyes, so i did and BAM suddenly I am in a school setting, the same one that I was in, before I woke up, in one of my dreams, but I knew I was dreaming...I didn't even use a RC!  I instinctively used some of the stabilization techniques that CosmicIron had mentioned earlier in the thread, notably crawling on the floor. I accomplished a few of my dream goals before I woke up again.  This, though i didnt know it at the time, was a FA.  My bed was shaped all wrong and I awoke standing up, but my silly brain thought it was normal lol.  But I got that nagging feeling again...like I NEEDED to close my eyes, so I did and BAM back into the school, though this time in the library.  I did some more fun stuff before I actually woke up.  This was a fantastic experience!  I plan to use SSILD every night now in order to improve my LD'ing skills!  Thank you CosmicIron for this amazing technique!

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## CosmicIron

> Even ADA? I had the impression everybody thought it to be the most effective supplement to lucid dreaming.



According to ADA, it increases your awareness during the day and thus making you more aware in dreams too. Now most people take this claim as a "fact" and rarely question it. However, I beg you to really think about it. Do we really carry day-time habits into our dreams? What if we don't? 

Do this: we all have many habits we do during the day, right? Pick a few and ask yourself, "Do I do that in my dreams?" Chances are you rarely, if ever, do them within your dreams! For example, you may like to sing to yourself whenever being alone, but you probably never do that in dreams. Now this may come as a surprise but if you look at what our dreams are meant to do then it's not surprising at all. Dreams are NOT meant to be a replica of our daily lives. They are complementary. Being complementary means it is more likely to contain content which we don't see often during the day, and day-time habits are certainly among these often omitted content. Moreover, dreams are highly symbolic. This means whatever occur in the dream do not necessarily share the same semantics with their day-time equivalent, and this include a wide range of things including the dream elements, events, and even your own behavior! 

If we can't bring our existing habits into dreams, what make you think a new routine will? Assuming ADA works as advertised, then an avid practitioner should be able to achieve lucidity all the time, in nearly every dreams (maybe even in the NREM ones), and all without any other aid. That's right, you have to have this level of consistent performance to really prove ADA's effectiveness. That may sound a little unfair, but many people have come to assume it being the ultimate "technique for the rest of your life" without even questioning the validity of its theories. Unfortunately, if you look closely at the reports from ADA practitioners you will rarely see such cases. 

Of course, what I've said is of my own opinion. I'm currently conducting a large-scale survey on our Chinese lucid dream forum. The goal of the survey is to verify the validity of the "developing some habits and do that also in your dreams" claim, which is the basis of some of the de-facto techniques people have assumed to be effective without questioning. Let's see how it goes, and let the numbers do the talk.

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## Sensei

Hey cosmic iron. I can attest to carrying things over in dreams. Here is my story about that:

I have always been ridiculously obsessed with dreams. I didn't think there was anything I could do more than remember dreams, so I never researched it till I was 19 and heard about LDing. 

Anyways. So at about 16 I was keeping a DJ to get more vivid dreams. I was obsessed with star wars then (as opposed to now :tongue2: ) and I walked around the house for two weeks "moving things with my mind" I would sporadically throughout the day fully believe I had the force and I would lift my hand up and imagine it moving. So after two weeks of that, guess what happened? You got it! I started having dreams that weren't star wars related that if something happened like a fight or I wanted to reach something, I would use "the force" (or telekinesis) in a dream. This would have been written off as "just because it was on my mind," but to this day, I use it all the time. 

This was a long summer alone, I had was in between my first "girlfriend" and my second gf. So don't judge the nerdiness. 

Anyways. At 17 I remembered this thing I had done, since I had 1 dream every single night. But then I was watching anime. I thought about the cool things they did and remembered my force powers. I decided then to practice rasengan (from naruto) and melchee's door (from psyren). I can use both in non lucids now. Using the basic technique of RCs, not really ADA. 

But! If RCs (or sporadic awareness) works. Shouldn't ADA?

I hope this helps.  :tongue2:  it is my own studies of dream control before lucid. That is why for me when people say "lucidity does not equal control." It makes sense to me.

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## lucsande

Interesting discussion. But don't think ADA could help at least with dream vividness?
Anyway, leep us dated with your chinese experiments, please. They seem to be very interesting.


Brandon, wouldn't all these things be just intention, rather than habit? I mean, we certainly carry stuff to dreams from daily life (for instance, one theory is that you cannot dream about unknown people), but in your case wouldn't it be just the manifestation of a strong desire and interest, rather than an habit?

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## Sensei

> Interesting discussion. But don't think ADA could help at least with dream vividness?
> Anyway, leep us dated with your chinese experiments, please. They seem to be very interesting.
> 
> 
> Brandon, wouldn't all these things be just intention, rather than habit? I mean, we certainly carry stuff to dreams from daily life (for instance, one theory is that you cannot dream about unknown people), but in your case wouldn't it be just the manifestation of a strong desire and interest, rather than an habit?



That is what I thought at first, but I am almost 22 now and anytime I am in a dream I use those things at will. I don't really think about them too much anymore, but my dream self never got out of the habit, even though I don't have the intent.

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## CosmicIron

> That is what I thought at first, but I am almost 22 now and anytime I am in a dream I use those things at will. I don't really think about them too much anymore, but my dream self never got out of the habit, even though I don't have the intent.



Brandon, I highly suspect your example is a special case. I have a very interesting observation, both from my own experience and others, about dreams within which we develop and use super powers. It appears that we often have super-powered dreams (flying, telekinesis, mind control... you name it) when we are approaching lucidity. That's right, those failed LD attempt often turn into super powers in dreams, and that even happens to people who have no clue or interests in this kind of things! One hypothesis is that when we gain more self-consciousness within a dream, we start to want certain things to happen. If in normal dreams we are rookie actors and actresses who simply carry out the director (unconscious)'s will, then in this case we become the more creative ones and start to improvise a bit on our own. The dream world in turn respond to our mental command, and that manifest into super powers.

As for carrying things into our dreams, I'm not ruling out everything. There are of course things that we can carry into our dreams, for example, those that cause strong impact, desires, anxieties, etc. However, they are not your regular "habits". And in fact, I believe their effectiveness diminishes once developed into habits. Now back to ADA. Trying to stay aware all the time is definitely not something that creates strong psychological impact. Even if it is, it differs from the the basic premise of ADA -- being highly aware of the surroundings can be trained into a "habit" and carried into dreams. LOL if that is true then a highly trained spy like Jason Bourn is most likely to have lucid dreams all the time, right?

I have nothing against ADA or similar type of techniques. People are free to choose whatever works best for them. However, I am a little disappointed by the fact that many people consider ADA the ultimate, almost holy grail like, technique, without ever questioning the theories behind it. I don't doubt ADA can supplement your LD techniques, but it doesn't seem to me all that effective by itself. Yet its theories tend to suggest otherwise, and people also like to interpret it that way. If ADA was to truly meet this claim, then the benchmark should look like this -- consistent lucidity every night within every dream (including NREM ones) without the aid of any other techniques. Unfortunately, I have not seen a single person who can claim this, not even highly skilled Tibetan dream yoga practitioners.

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## bluremi

CosmicIron, I think you are probably overgeneralizing with your doubts about ADA. I agree with you that it's not "the only technique you will ever need," and this applies for most people, but it is certainly very helpful for many reasons:

People who develop a habit of permanent awareness (i.e. those who do so as a lifestyle unto itself, such as monks, meditation teachers, etc) do not "carry over" their habits into dreams. There is nothing to carry over, since there is an unbroken sequence of awareness from wake to deep sleep to REM sleep and back to wakefulness. Nsargadatta Maharaj often said that during the day he was aware of being awake, at night he was aware of being unconscious, and during dreams he was aware of being asleep and dreaming. Awareness is separate from consciousness, but that's a different topic for now...

What makes ADA seem to be ineffective is that in order for it to work the practitioner needs true earnestness to pursue it as a lifestyle. It is difficult to make "awareness" into your default state of being. I have been meditating for years and I can't maintain it for more than an hour at a time, hence I have almost no chance of remembering to be aware in the midst of a dream, where I am even more distracted than usual.

That said, practicing awareness does have supplementary effects that are very useful. The main one is that it improves your ability to sustain focused attention. When doing cycles you will find it easier to not drift away into daydreams immediately, and when you find yourself in the middle of a lucid dream you will find it easier to remember to stay lucid and not fall back into a "sleeping dream."

While other techniques, including SSILD, are probably way more effective in both the short and long term, ADA is worth practicing for anyone as long as they have realistic expectations. Just my two cents.

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## CosmicIron

> CosmicIron, I think you are probably overgeneralizing with your doubts about ADA. I agree with you that it's not "the only technique you will ever need," and this applies for most people, but it is certainly very helpful for many reasons:
> 
> People who develop a habit of permanent awareness (i.e. those who do so as a lifestyle unto itself, such as monks, meditation teachers, etc) do not "carry over" their habits into dreams. There is nothing to carry over, since there is an unbroken sequence of awareness from wake to deep sleep to REM sleep and back to wakefulness. Nsargadatta Maharaj often said that during the day he was aware of being awake, at night he was aware of being unconscious, and during dreams he was aware of being asleep and dreaming. Awareness is separate from consciousness, but that's a different topic for now...
> 
> What makes ADA seem to be ineffective is that in order for it to work the practitioner needs true earnestness to pursue it as a lifestyle. It is difficult to make "awareness" into your default state of being. I have been meditating for years and I can't maintain it for more than an hour at a time, hence I have almost no chance of remembering to be aware in the midst of a dream, where I am even more distracted than usual.
> 
> That said, practicing awareness does have supplementary effects that are very useful. The main one is that it improves your ability to sustain focused attention. When doing cycles you will find it easier to not drift away into daydreams immediately, and when you find yourself in the middle of a lucid dream you will find it easier to remember to stay lucid and not fall back into a "sleeping dream."
> 
> While other techniques, including SSILD, are probably way more effective in both the short and long term, ADA is worth practicing for anyone as long as they have realistic expectations. Just my two cents.



I agree with you on the "awareness needs not to be carried over" statement, and I admit ADA can have other benefits when practiced earnestly. My argument really was centered on its claim and people's unquestioned belief of its effectiveness as a lucid dream induction technique. 

That said, I'd like to express my own opinion on the unbroken sequence of awareness theory. This kind of state is often mentioned in the context of Tibetan dream yoga, and is seen as one of the highest achievements. However, there are many different interpretations of this. One of which is what you mentioned, basically saying your awareness is never broken regardless being awake or asleep. Personally I think it is exaggerated though. In religions and occults people have that tendency to exaggerate things since there is often no way to prove them wrong. If you look at the dream yoga books, however, you will clearly see that they have many categorizations of dreams. And there are those which even the "masters" rely upon for inspirations and other purposes, and no, they are not aware of them being dreams while they are having them. I have met some of this world's highest ranking and most respected Tibetan buddhists, and they do not possess this kind of unbroken awareness. They have extremely high awareness for sure, but that does not extend automatically into their dreams -- bear in mind, dream yoga is only one of MANY practices in Tibetan buddhism. Same goes with the Taoists. While they claim even way more miraculous things, there is no denying that their most worshiped saints had dreams and no, they were not aware (e.g. the butterfly being me or me being the butterfly story by Chuang Tzu). We can also look at this from a more scientific angle. Our brain's functions rely on many different kinds of neurotransmitters. One of them is Acetylcholine which affects sensory perceptions and sustaining attentions. When we initially go to sleep the level of Acetylcholine drops to all-time low, and gradually rise as we gain more sleep. When we wake up in the morning and maintain wakefulness for a while (such as doing WBTB or SSILD), our body start releasing more of these in anticipation of increased awareness. At this point if we go back to sleep we have heightened awareness and often result in spontaneous LDs. Now assuming this "unbroken awareness" is achievable, it probably means an extremely high level of Acetylcholine in the system and gets maintained that way day and night. I dunno, is that even healthy? LOL.

There is another version of this though. It is a higher state of consciousness which can be achieved through practice, and invoked on demand. It is an entirely different state of consciousness from our typical ones, and the kind of awareness one gains through it is beyond words... you can call it unbroken, but it is also vast, thorough, infinite, and much more... It is anything but earthly, and is fundamentally different from our normal definition of "awareness". Now this, is what I believe to be the true goal of dream yoga, and I can attest it from personal experience.

I hope my criticism on ADA is not offending anyone. I always feel this is a fascinating subject and worth more in-depth study and research. What I have said are based on my rather un-scientific experience and observations so they probably don't have much value. This is why I'm conducting this survey on our forum. Hopefully by the end of it we will have some statistics to either back up or undermine my hypothesis. Either way I'm happy.  :smiley:

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## lucsande

One of the things acetylcholine (ACh) does is to help the arousal of the body. Other is to enhance the sensory perceptions... If its levels really increase throughout sleep, than it is, as you said,a probable explanation of how SSILD could work. After the cycles, we probably estimulate even more AChto be produced and it could really be making lucidity easier.

However, I don't understand how meditation right before the cycles could be prejudicial. I mean, the cycles themselves are a sort of meditation. Besides that, meditation helps with awareness, what could increase ACh too, right? CosmicIron, do you have any idea why meditation has no impact - or even a negative impact - on SSILD? 

I know that I, with all my lack of knowledge, am saying some bullshit and am also really lost here. However I believethat getting to the core of the technic, understanding the science behind it, is important and could help us to make it even more effective and adaptable for individual needs...

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## CosmicIron

> One of the things acetylcholine (ACh) does is to help the arousal of the body. Other is to enhance the sensory perceptions... If its levels really increase throughout sleep, than it is, as you said,a probable explanation of how SSILD could work. After the cycles, we probably estimulate even more AChto be produced and it could really be making lucidity easier.
> 
> However, I don't understand how meditation right before the cycles could be prejudicial. I mean, the cycles themselves are a sort of meditation. Besides that, meditation helps with awareness, what could increase ACh too, right? CosmicIron, do you have any idea why meditation has no impact - or even a negative impact - on SSILD? 
> 
> I know that I, with all my lack of knowledge, am saying some bullshit and am also really lost here. However I believethat getting to the core of the technic, understanding the science behind it, is important and could help us to make it even more effective and adaptable for individual needs...



I noticed that some of the effects generated by SSILD felt very similar to the ones resulted from taking supplements such as Galantamine. This got me thinking, and after more experiments I formulated a hypothesis: By repeatedly stimulating the various senses, we create a need for the body to release more ACh. However, this is very subtle and does not have immediate effect, so there is going to be a slight delay before ACh level gets raised. Now we know if performed correctly, SSILD can help one to fall asleep pretty quickly, or in some case put us into a trance. This, combined with the latency of the rising ACh level, gives us the spontaneous LDs and OBEs after we fall asleep from SSILD. Of course, just the stimulation of the senses might not generate sufficient amount of ACh, this is why we also typically need WBTB. 

I notice in the other post you mentioned that your SSILD exercise did not give you any result. I think this is due to insufficient stimulation. The trick with SSILD is really to find the perfect balance between enough stimulation and losing sleep. We want to stimulate the senses sufficiently while also maintain the trance so we can fall to sleep quickly. I hope this helps.

Edit: Oh, the meditation... Assuming meditation also generates ACh, then doing so will cause a sudden increase of it, which destroys the "latency" mechanism of SSILD. Also keep in mind that we normally do meditation before going to sleep. This is at a time when ACh level is at the lowest, thus it is counter productive. We need ACh level to be low so we can sleep quickly and get enough NREM sleep.

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## Xanous

So I love SSILD. It has given me more lucids than any other technique (even a couple nREM lucids) but I have run into a few snags. I don't know if I am getting bored with it or what my deal is but the effectiveness seems to be wearing off. One potential problem may be that I have begun to devolve insomnia after any WBTB. Sometimes I use LDS that cause wakefulness, but even when I don't, I have issues getting back to sleep. That's a separate issue but it is hindering my focus on SSILD cycles. Could I be getting to used to WBTB?

Also, one thing that was great for SSILD was my almost immediate HI when falling asleep. That seems to be not as strong as it once was. I know its the action of each cycle not the effect but I think it causes me to lose interest rather quickly.

Any ideas?

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## lucsande

For getting more stimulation, what could I do? Just try to wake up for longer amounts of, trying to move more around, get more light, more body sensations... Stuff like that. Or are there other suggestions? 
One more thing: when you wake up, doyou stay awake for a predetermined amount of time, or by now you already have developed a feel for when drowziness and alertness are most efficiently balanced for getting back to bed?

Besides, you have any information about wether meditation does increase ACh? Because, just like with the cycles, meditation usually gets me relaxed and drowsy instead of wide awake. Could it be that both meditation and the cycles stimulations have a couple of minutes of lag?

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## CosmicIron

> So I love SSILD. It has given me more lucids than any other technique (even a couple nREM lucids) but I have run into a few snags. I don't know if I am getting bored with it or what my deal is but the effectiveness seems to be wearing off. One potential problem may be that I have begun to devolve insomnia after any WBTB. Sometimes I use LDS that cause wakefulness, but even when I don't, I have issues getting back to sleep. That's a separate issue but it is hindering my focus on SSILD cycles. Could I be getting to used to WBTB?
> 
> Also, one thing that was great for SSILD was my almost immediate HI when falling asleep. That seems to be not as strong as it once was. I know its the action of each cycle not the effect but I think it causes me to lose interest rather quickly.
> 
> Any ideas?



I have had similars feelings myself so I can easily relate to what you are saying. This is what I do:

1. Take a break from SSILD and LD in general. Use the next few days to improve dream recall instead -- record dreams upon each awakening, for example. In the event I feel fully rested and would like to try some LD, I usually use visualizations.

2. Take some supplements. My typical ones are Melatonin 1-2 hours prior to sleep, and Galantamine+Choline Bitartrate after 4-5 hours of sleep. After taking the later combo I immediately return to bed to work on a few focused SSILD cycles and fall asleep as quickly as possible afterward. This usually results in spontaneous OBE and last a long time. Doing this will make you feel motivated and in turn help make SSILD more effective later on.

3. I also alter between two different SSILD styles throughout the week:

Style 1:  Long WBTB + focused SSILD + hell with insomnia attitude
Style 2:  No WBTB + multiple sessions of quick and relaxed SSILDs performed upon each awakening. 

Style 2 can fix the insomnia problem for you.

Hope this helps.  :smiley:

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## CosmicIron

> For getting more stimulation, what could I do? Just try to wake up for longer amounts of, trying to move more around, get more light, more body sensations... Stuff like that. Or are there other suggestions? 
> One more thing: when you wake up, doyou stay awake for a predetermined amount of time, or by now you already have developed a feel for when drowziness and alertness are most efficiently balanced for getting back to bed?
> 
> Besides, you have any information about wether meditation does increase ACh? Because, just like with the cycles, meditation usually gets me relaxed and drowsy instead of wide awake. Could it be that both meditation and the cycles stimulations have a couple of minutes of lag?



I guess what you suggested for getting more stimulations could work, except perhaps they will wake you up completely, LOL. Personally the more effective ones are:

1. Staying awake a little longer, say, 10 minutes.
2. Stay focused during the slow cycles of SSILD. I know, generally we advise people to lose focus and get immersed in random thoughts, but that is to help enter the trance state more easily and avoid losing sleep. Once you get the hung of it you can try to raise the focus level a bit so you get sufficient stimulation at the same time.

I don't really follow a precise schedule. Sometimes I feel lazy and I hardly get up at all, and sometimes I get distracted and can stay on my iPad for an hour or even more. When I find it hard to fall asleep I usually force a phase entry by shifting the "focus point", which usually allows me to enter a dream state immediately.

As for meditation... You do know that proper meditation is not supposed to make you feel drowsy right? It's supposed to put you into a calm yet fully conscious state. Unfortunately, falling asleep while meditating is probably what pretty much everyone does, LOL. God knows what neurotransmitters get released while we are doing that!  :smiley:

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## Xanous

> I have had similars feelings myself so I can easily relate to what you are saying. This is what I do:
> 
> 1. Take a break from SSILD and LD in general. Use the next few days to improve dream recall instead -- record dreams upon each awakening, for example. In the event I feel fully rested and would like to try some LD, I usually use visualizations.
> 
> 2. Take some supplements. My typical ones are Melatonin 1-2 hours prior to sleep, and Galantamine+Choline Bitartrate after 4-5 hours of sleep. After taking the later combo I immediately return to bed to work on a few focused SSILD cycles and fall asleep as quickly as possible afterward. This usually results in spontaneous OBE and last a long time. Doing this will make you feel motivated and in turn help make SSILD more effective later on.
> 
> 3. I also alter between two different SSILD styles throughout the week:
> 
> Style 1:  Long WBTB + focused SSILD + hell with insomnia attitude
> ...



Yeah! I think that's good advice. I like it. Thanks.  ::D:  

I probably use Sunday and Monday nights for stlye #2 to re-coop since I typically use Galantamine only on the weekend. Then, if I feel up to it start style #1 back up after.

I usually have a period of insomnia with Galantamine. Would it be useful to do continuous cycles while waiting to sleep or would that keep my mind too active?

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## CosmicIron

> Yeah! I think that's good advice. I like it. Thanks.  
> 
> I probably use Sunday and Monday nights for stlye #2 to re-coop since I typically use Galantamine only on the weekend. Then, if I feel up to it start style #1 back up after.
> 
> I usually have a period of insomnia with Galantamine. Would it be useful to do continuous cycles while waiting to sleep or would that keep my mind too active?



It takes approximately an hour before Galantamine crosses the blood-brain barrier. Therefore, if you encounter insomnia right after taking it it's probably psychological. In order to avoid colliding into the Galantamine effect I usually return to bed right away and start working on SSILD. A few quick cycles should calm you down easily and follow with a couple of very focused slow cycles to see if you can spot some hypnagogic sensations. After that just roll over and go to sleep -- don't try too hard though, you don't want to focus on falling asleep because that will just backfire. You don't have to fall asleep with getting an LD as the last thought on your mind. It will just happen. Have faith!  :tongue2:

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## Xanous

> It takes approximately an hour before Galantamine crosses the blood-brain barrier. Therefore, if you encounter insomnia right after taking it it's probably psychological. In order to avoid colliding into the Galantamine effect I usually return to bed right away and start working on SSILD. A few quick cycles should calm you down easily and follow with a couple of very focused slow cycles to see if you can spot some hypnagogic sensations. After that just roll over and go to sleep -- don't try too hard though, you don't want to focus on falling asleep because that will just backfire. You don't have to fall asleep with getting an LD as the last thought on your mind. It will just happen. Have faith!



Great advice. I'll keep it in mind.

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## Sensei

> Brandon, I highly suspect your example is a special case. I have a very interesting observation, both from my own experience and others, about dreams within which we develop and use super powers. It appears that we often have super-powered dreams (flying, telekinesis, mind control... you name it) when we are approaching lucidity. That's right, those failed LD attempt often turn into super powers in dreams, and that even happens to people who have no clue or interests in this kind of things! One hypothesis is that when we gain more self-consciousness within a dream, we start to want certain things to happen. If in normal dreams we are rookie actors and actresses who simply carry out the director (unconscious)'s will, then in this case we become the more creative ones and start to improvise a bit on our own. The dream world in turn respond to our mental command, and that manifest into super powers.
> 
> As for carrying things into our dreams, I'm not ruling out everything. There are of course things that we can carry into our dreams, for example, those that cause strong impact, desires, anxieties, etc. However, they are not your regular "habits". And in fact, I believe their effectiveness diminishes once developed into habits. Now back to ADA. Trying to stay aware all the time is definitely not something that creates strong psychological impact. Even if it is, it differs from the the basic premise of ADA -- being highly aware of the surroundings can be trained into a "habit" and carried into dreams. LOL if that is true then a highly trained spy like Jason Bourn is most likely to have lucid dreams all the time, right?
> 
> I have nothing against ADA or similar type of techniques. People are free to choose whatever works best for them. However, I am a little disappointed by the fact that many people consider ADA the ultimate, almost holy grail like, technique, without ever questioning the theories behind it. I don't doubt ADA can supplement your LD techniques, but it doesn't seem to me all that effective by itself. Yet its theories tend to suggest otherwise, and people also like to interpret it that way. If ADA was to truly meet this claim, then the benchmark should look like this -- consistent lucidity every night within every dream (including NREM ones) without the aid of any other techniques. Unfortunately, I have not seen a single person who can claim this, not even highly skilled Tibetan dream yoga practitioners.



Hmmm... makes sense to me. I became lucid 10 times before ever trying to in my life. This seemed random enough. Normally nightmares, nothing like realizing you are in a nightmare and not knowing how to wake yourself up. Took me a minute or so. Or when playing too much with the snooze bar, haha. The constant waking up and going to sleep caused me to go lucid a few times. 

I think the Jason Bourne part makes a lot of sense as well,
Because when you said that I thought "why would that make him lucid?" And then I thought, "oh! His tech basically is ADA without the intent to LD. Makes sense!"

I do not think of ADA as the god of techniques, I have always thought that all techniques work just as well. meaning that they can all get you lucid. The difference is that some might not work for you as well as others. SSILD is pretty much looking to prove me wrong, it looks like the success rates are ridiculously high. 

Do you find it harder to SSILD if you go to bed late even if you are getting enough sleep? Or if you are running on less sleep than normal from the previous day?

One of my big things for LDing is "never go to sleep too tired" Because I think that when you sleep without enough sleep, your mind goes into a deeper sleep most of the time making you less aware. My problem now is that I can't prove myself wrong on this because my confidence lowers a lot. So it would be nice to change my expectations on this and raise my confidence.  :smiley:

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## CosmicIron

> Hmmm... makes sense to me. I became lucid 10 times before ever trying to in my life. This seemed random enough. Normally nightmares, nothing like realizing you are in a nightmare and not knowing how to wake yourself up. Took me a minute or so. Or when playing too much with the snooze bar, haha. The constant waking up and going to sleep caused me to go lucid a few times. 
> 
> I think the Jason Bourne part makes a lot of sense as well,
> Because when you said that I thought "why would that make him lucid?" And then I thought, "oh! His tech basically is ADA without the intent to LD. Makes sense!"
> 
> I do not think of ADA as the god of techniques, I have always thought that all techniques work just as well. meaning that they can all get you lucid. The difference is that some might not work for you as well as others. SSILD is pretty much looking to prove me wrong, it looks like the success rates are ridiculously high. 
> 
> Do you find it harder to SSILD if you go to bed late even if you are getting enough sleep? Or if you are running on less sleep than normal from the previous day?
> 
> One of my big things for LDing is "never go to sleep too tired" Because I think that when you sleep without enough sleep, your mind goes into a deeper sleep most of the time making you less aware. My problem now is that I can't prove myself wrong on this because my confidence lowers a lot. So it would be nice to change my expectations on this and raise my confidence.



I'm glad you had an open mind on this subject. I really think it is time for the lucid dreaming community to start drawing more inspirations from modern science instead of embracing on ancient/occult systems without much preservation. There are also a lot of myth, exaggerated or misrepresented facts, camouflage, and so on in the field of lucid dreaming and related topics, and I think it is time to look at them from more critical perspectives -- revealing them instead of adding to them.

I used to think the same as your "all techniques work just as well" statement, but not anymore. In our lives there are better and worse approaches, routes, methods, and so on, why should "lucid dreaming techniques" differ? In fact I think some of the techniques are downright tedious, overrated, and misleading. This is kinda like in martial arts. Before UFC put them in a ring, everyone claimed "there is no better technique, it all depends on the person who is using the technique." And guess what? Brazilian Jiu Jitsu simply proved them wrong and made laughingstocks of so many self-claimed "masters." It was only then the martial arts community started looking at "traditions" from a whole new perspective. Bad for the old schools, but certainly good for the advancement of martial arts in general. 

As for your question. I do find it in general harder to LD (not just SSILD) if I go to bed late or not being well rested. There are exceptions of course. There are various conditions that are well-suited for LD and OBE to occur, and REM sleep is just one of these. It is probably the most common ones though.

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## Matt1

I had, and still do have, a lot of confidence in this method. First 3 days I got lucid twice. Lately though I fall back asleep WAY too fast, I think before I even finish one cycle. How do you suggest getting or keeping oneself awake enough to do enough cycles to have any effect, without going overboard? 
I probably need to learn to concentrate better too...

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## Sensei

> I'm glad you had an open mind on this subject. I really think it is time for the lucid dreaming community to start drawing more inspirations from modern science instead of embracing on ancient/occult systems without much preservation. There are also a lot of myth, exaggerated or misrepresented facts, camouflage, and so on in the field of lucid dreaming and related topics, and I think it is time to look at them from more critical perspectives -- revealing them instead of adding to them.
> 
> I used to think the same as your "all techniques work just as well" statement, but not anymore. In our lives there are better and worse approaches, routes, methods, and so on, why should "lucid dreaming techniques" differ? In fact I think some of the techniques are downright tedious, overrated, and misleading. This is kinda like in martial arts. Before UFC put them in a ring, everyone claimed "there is no better technique, it all depends on the person who is using the technique." And guess what? Brazilian Jiu Jitsu simply proved them wrong and made laughingstocks of so many self-claimed "masters." It was only then the martial arts community started looking at "traditions" from a whole new perspective. Bad for the old schools, but certainly good for the advancement of martial arts in general. 
> 
> As for your question. I do find it in general harder to LD (not just SSILD) if I go to bed late or not being well rested. There are exceptions of course. There are various conditions that are well-suited for LD and OBE to occur, and REM sleep is just one of these. It is probably the most common ones though.



I am still glad I did the other techniques now though, because it got me a lot better at the ideas this one has. Like waking up in the middle of the night with no alarm multiple times. 

You said that this technique is now 100% for you, does this mean that you get lucid every time you try? Or does it mean every night? 

I am always open for new techniques. I think that even if all techniques worked, it just depended on the person, then you would still need to try new ones just in case you are uber better at the new one. I also have wanted science to come out with something to 100% LDs, because it makes the entire community better. 

I hope that every technique I try will be the 100% technique I am looking for.

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## bluremi

> I had, and still do have, a lot of confidence in this method. First 3 days I got lucid twice. Lately though I fall back asleep WAY too fast, I think before I even finish one cycle. How do you suggest getting or keeping oneself awake enough to do enough cycles to have any effect, without going overboard? 
> I probably need to learn to concentrate better too...



Based on my own experience and the posts in this thread, it seems like what you do during the WBTB portion of the technique is what you should focus on.

If you are falling asleep too fast, stay up a little longer and do something to wake you up, like stretching or checking your email.

If you are too awake, spend less time out of bed or don't get up altogether.


The key is to experiment and try to find a sweet spot. Perhaps the sweet spot changes from day to day and you just need to get familiar with how the right level of alertness "feels" when you wake up in the morning.

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## Matt1

I was wondering if maybe it would be okay to get out of bed and maybe do the cycles in a comfy chair or seat you can relax fully in, then go straight back to the bed and fall asleep while doing the cycles again? This seems to me like a good way to make sure all the cycles, including the long ones, get done, before falling asleep. What do you think?

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## bluremi

I think you should try it a half dozen times and post your results.

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## CosmicIron

> I was wondering if maybe it would be okay to get out of bed and maybe do the cycles in a comfy chair or seat you can relax fully in, then go straight back to the bed and fall asleep while doing the cycles again? This seems to me like a good way to make sure all the cycles, including the long ones, get done, before falling asleep. What do you think?



Very interesting... no one hasn't tried that yet.

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## Matt1

Alright, I'm going to try that a little and if it's promising, keep it up. It seems in my experience and what I've seen in a few others' accounts that the effects of SSILD on dream vividness and lucidity are greater the more of the cycles you complete, so I just need to not fall asleep too soon.  :smiley:  I'll post about it in the 30 days test thread.

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## lucsande

Matt1, I tried your chair thing. It didn't gave me lucidity, but it did give me a false awakening in wich I asked myself whether I was sleeping. I got no lucidity because I paid no attention to the RC and immediately woke up afterwards.

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## dreamer7

i tried this at 6pm but it took me waaay too long.. i kept having micro sleeps which made me forget where i was.. over and over.. on 1 cycle it took me 5 minutes on the quick cycle

i eventually finished it then went to sleep but... no dream at all

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## Matt1

You know, when you get those random thoughts during the cycles sometimes, is it possible to get those random thoughts in FA in the same manner as when awake? I had assumed that such thoughts would be vivid and perceptible when asleep or dreaming, not just thoughts, if that makes any sense, but I could be wrong.

Also I've assumed I did not go directly into FA because I could feel my whole body exactly the same as when awake. Should I still do a reality check (and possibly cancel out some of the good effects of SSILD by moving, if that is possible)?

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## CosmicIron

> You know, when you get those random thoughts during the cycles sometimes, is it possible to get those random thoughts in FA in the same manner as when awake? I had assumed that such thoughts would be vivid and perceptible when asleep or dreaming, not just thoughts, if that makes any sense, but I could be wrong.
> 
> Also I've assumed I did not go directly into FA because I could feel my whole body exactly the same as when awake. Should I still do a reality check (and possibly cancel out some of the good effects of SSILD by moving, if that is possible)?



Usually in an FA our thoughts can immediately turn into images like you've said. However, there is something peculiar about some of the FAs generated by SSILD. They can be so realistic that no amount of visualization will work, and if you focus too much on your physical body you WILL wake up seamlessly and move your physical body instead. This type of FAs usually happens when you feel you are waking up frequently. I suggest you read my other post about Focus Point, which might help when encountering this kind of FAs next time.

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## bluremi

I've been repeating my same procedure but cannot replicate my previous success. I do the cycles and my mind wanders but I manage to finish, then I go to sleep and wake up a few hours later without remembering any dreams.

Any advice?

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## CosmicIron

> I've been repeating my same procedure but cannot replicate my previous success. I do the cycles and my mind wanders but I manage to finish, then I go to sleep and wake up a few hours later without remembering any dreams.
> 
> Any advice?



Did you get up and allow yourself to stay awake for a while? Anyway, take a look at this post. I think it might help: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post1988470

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## keudbybor

This weekend I got my second lucid dream by using this method!  A lot more vivid than the last one  ::D:

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## Matt1

Aside from the times I become lucid, the cycles have an unusual effect on me that I thought I would share.

Normally when I sleep or used to sleep without doing any cycles, no matter how long I slept, it felt like time had passed, especially if there had been a vivid or aware dream. If I fell back asleep at, say, 3:00, no matter if I woke up at 3:30, 4:00, 5:00, or later, I would remember trying to fall asleep, that I was asleep for an unknown length of time, I dreamed something or other maybe, and here I am.

When I do the cycles, even if rather poorly, not good enough to have a lucid dream, what will happen is I am either doing the cycles or trying to fall asleep afterward for what feels like 5 minutes or less, then suddenly I am fully awake (and not in FA either). I look at my clock fully expecting only 5 minutes to have passed, but it has actually been anywhere from 20 to 90 minutes. Then if I try I can maybe remember a dream from this passed time.

--My Personal Theory--

Generally when I do the cycles I figure that if I wake up after this, I will just try them again, which is good. I find though that on days where I expect I have to get up at a certain time (most days), no matter how much later, this problem occurs, of waking up too soon. I think because I expect subconsciously to have to wake up for the day at a certain time, and to have to have more awakenings in between to try the cycles, my brain wakes me up. I also theorize that this expectation causes the cycles to increase awareness, not in the midst of a dream as I want, but to actually wake me up, because that is I what I expect. That the cycles are causing the awakenings I think explains both the timing and the nature of them.

Still since it is having an effect on me, I believe the cycles to be an effective method of inducing lucid dreams, not to mention that it also works for many to cause quick, vivid WILDs. Now I just need to get myself to not wake up too much so I can get lucid dreams and not these time warp awakenings.  :smiley: 

tl;dr Cycles cause me to sleep without feeling any time has passed. The cycles may be waking me up through subconscious expectation to wake up later rather than causing lucidity as desired.

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## Darkmatters

I've been doing SSILD for a while now - not sure, maybe a week and a half? No lucidity for the first few days, then went into a period of terrible recall and being too tired to even think about SSILDing that lasted like a week. That seems to be abating now, and last night I tried SSILD again and got lucid briefly just as I was waking up. Did a few SSILD cycles during a short WBTW (just went to the bathroom - I drank a big cup of water before bed and set my intention to wake after each dream and to realize I'm dreaming). Then I just rolled over and went to sleep and had a few weird dreams, and at the end of one I went lucid briefly. SSILDed again a few times and tried to get back to sleep, think I did fall asleep briefly once and a few times I saw dreams beginning to form but then they'd pop like bubbles.

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## swiggityswag

Got my first LD using SSILD. This technique does wonders.

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## bluremi

It has not worked for me after my initial success. I am still experimenting to find out what works.

Right now I'm focusing on staying awake during WBTB longer so that I don't drift away in the middle of the cycles. I find myself stopping and starting once they get to the long cycle stage, I think these interruptions are hurting the effectiveness of the technique.

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## CosmicIron

> It has not worked for me after my initial success. I am still experimenting to find out what works.
> 
> Right now I'm focusing on staying awake during WBTB longer so that I don't drift away in the middle of the cycles. I find myself stopping and starting once they get to the long cycle stage, I think these interruptions are hurting the effectiveness of the technique.



Staying awake longer will definitely help, but you also need to be more aware of the FAs. Do you find yourself waking up many times after the exercise? If you do, chances are some of those awakenings were FAs.

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## VagalTone

Im not sure about this....i have 3 or + awakenings per night, can i repeat SSILD cycles on different awakenings ?

----------


## CosmicIron

> Im not sure about this....i have 3 or + awakenings per night, can i repeat SSILD cycles on different awakenings ?



Most definitely. And should you find you have even more awakenings after performing SSILD, it is a strong hint that they may be FAs. If if they are not, performing more cycles during these awakenings will likely result in WILDs.

----------


## Stevano

Hey I've recently started Lucid Dreaming and found that your technique works great! I've had 14 or so Lucids in a around a month. The only problem is that when i started out, i had super vivid and long lucids but recently all of mine are very blurry, and fade out in less than a minute. My dream recall seems to be suffering too. I keep a dream journal and everything and i've tried everything during the dream to try and stabilize it, like spinning, staring at my palms, crawling, telling the dream to be more clear, rubbing my palms etc. but nothing seems to be working. What do you think could be the problem? Thanks in advance!

----------


## Sensei

Stevano. Your first problem is likely because of your second. When you increase recall, you increase awareness and vividness as well. With bad recall don't your dreams seem more blurry and shorter?

Of course you should stabilize as well.  :tongue2:  that can counter blurry and short.

----------


## VagalTone

i have the same problem with stabilization, i think it will just get better with time. after all this is a skill. if you had super vivid and long lucids i can definitely understand that you think there's some problem now. but you are doing the right techniques, ya, and it takes time to have some kind of regularity, as far as i know 

by the way, 14 lucids in a month is very impressive, im sure this technique is for you ! do you use another technique besides SSILD ?

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hey I've recently started Lucid Dreaming and found that your technique works great! I've had 14 or so Lucids in a around a month. The only problem is that when i started out, i had super vivid and long lucids but recently all of mine are very blurry, and fade out in less than a minute. My dream recall seems to be suffering too. I keep a dream journal and everything and i've tried everything during the dream to try and stabilize it, like spinning, staring at my palms, crawling, telling the dream to be more clear, rubbing my palms etc. but nothing seems to be working. What do you think could be the problem? Thanks in advance!



Sounds like you are on the right path. Frequency is up, and you understand the stabilization techniques. Are you doing anything unusual with your sleep schedules? Such as going to bed late? Getting up earlier? Are you well rested and in good physical condition? Are you under stress? These are the questions you should ask yourself as they all may impact your dream recall and vividness of your LDs. 

Another suggestion is to take a couple days of break. 14 LDs in around a month is quite an achievement already so no need to stretch it. You might also consider taking some supplements. After all, many of which are "brain food", and you don't want to starve your brain!

----------


## Sensei

> Are you well rested and in good physical condition?



Hey! Am I not the only one that thinks that being in good physical shape makes LDing a lot easier? It just seems like most real oneirontauts are in good or great shape.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hey! Am I not the only one that thinks that being in good physical shape makes LDing a lot easier? It just seems like most real oneirontauts are in good or great shape.



Well, I guess you are not the only one  :tongue2:

----------


## Stevano

Thanks for all the responses guys!
VagalTone: Nah i just use SSILD + WBTB. I tried MILD and WILD before trying SSILD for a few weeks succeeding in only 1 short WILD.
BrandonBoss: Yeah i guess it could be the recall, the thing is that i used to be able to remember around 2 dreams every night, now it seems it's lucky even if i get a couple of fragments.
CosmicIron: I'm in pretty good shape, not amazing but fit. I have been getting a lot of tests and homework lately though so stress might be a factor.
Question: What stabilization techniques works the best for you? Also what do you do during WBTB, is there certain activities you should avoid like surfing the web etc. ?

----------


## Sageous

> Hey! Am I not the only one that thinks that being in good physical shape makes LDing a lot easier? It just seems like most real oneirontauts are in good or great shape.



For what it's worth:

I'm in lousy physical shape; I always have been.  I'm not fat or sickly, mind you, but definitely not ready for 15 rounds.  Am I the exception, or could mental good shape trump physical good shape, at least sometimes?

I haven't read this thread, but I think it needs to be said that physical condition, and action, ought to be secondary considerations at best in LD'ing... sorry if I contradict!

----------


## Darkmatters

I suspect people who are in great shape have a strong sense of being able to control their own destiny - their physical condition is a testament to that. Also many of them are into martial arts, which does wonders to improve self esteem and empowerment. Plus the endorphins etc as a result of exercise..

I don't think it's the physical condition itself that does anything, or very little anyway, but the underlying sense of well-being and self esteem. And you don't have to be in great physical shape to have those things.

----------


## Sageous

^^ Or people in good shape have nothing better to do with their time... or they're driven to beautify/purify their physique for purely narcissistic reasons ... or they just want dates... or... hell, I think you get my point: excellent physical condition does not equal improved mental condition every time, and people in excellent physical condition do not always have that "underlying sense of well-being and self-esteem;" indeed, very often their efforts stem from very opposite underlying senses.   There are simply too many variables to make such assumptions, I think.

I do agree, though, that physical condition has little to do, proportionally, with LD'ing.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure that's exactly what CosmicIron meant when he asked his question.

----------


## TwoCrystalCups

I only use SSILDs when i know i am being tricked in a dream so i use 6th sense to come across and figure out the purpose of the dream and sometimes it continues next day to solve the mystery.

----------


## Sensei

> ^^ Or people in good shape have nothing better to do with their time... or they're driven to beautify/purify their physique for purely narcissistic reasons ... or they just want dates... or... hell, I think you get my point: excellent physical condition does not equal improved mental condition every time, and people in excellent physical condition do not always have that "underlying sense of well-being and self-esteem;" indeed, very often their efforts stem from very opposite underlying senses.   There are simply too many variables to make such assumptions, I think.



Well, there are a lot of "beef-heads" in good shape, and I doubt they would be much good at LDing seeing as it is a mental thing.

My idea behind it is that if you should control your whole body. From your physical prowess to your mental well-being. I know that to succeed in this world it is easier if you are smart and well... not in bad shape. Easier to get a job and easier to keep it. If all else fails at an office, you can always go to a job (like mine) that doesn't take any mind work, but takes the physical endurance to walk 8-10 miles a day in all weather. 

I do what I need, and I do it confidently. There are many paths to a lucid dream. My path is through my confidence, my belief in my abilities, if someone else in the world can "always be lucid" than so can I. My confidence is a type of confidence most easily gotten from succeeding in many sports (mostly basketball for 9 years). If I fall it is because I didn't practice enough, didn't study enough, didn't think through it enough. So I can just try again, this time knowing that I could have done it last time _thus_ I can do it the next time. A weird way of thinking, but it applies to all parts of my life now. 

Another random point: active body = active mind

I think that being in a position like mine makes it easier, but is still a long and arduous road and many fall by the waysides even if they have it easier.

----------


## VagalTone

Hi, i have 2 questions regarding SSILD, which i will be focusing more in the future, as i need to spend less time with induction techniques. ( i have been having great sucess with an extended time WILD technique, sometimes 3 hours,  and i higly suspect i am just doing a long version of SSILD )

this is from your most recent tutorial available on your blog. is it just a recommendation for better chances or is it a necessary step ? also, what do you mean by few extra medium-paced cycles ?  :Thinking:  

*Real Awakening: You wake up again after doing SSILD. You do a reality check and this time it is real. Do not despair. You still have chances. Try to stay still, and immediately relax your head, allowing the back of it to sink into the pillow. Then you need to perform a few extra medium-paced SSILD cycles. At this stage it is quite possible for you to encounter strong hypnagogia sensations. If not, just finish the cycles and go to sleep. You will have a much higher chance to succeed this time*

my second question is : i have an app on my phone which helps me with SSILD. after each quick and long cycle it makes a quick sound so i can do it each cycle with more efficiency. do you see any inconvenience ? i feel like psychological time and real time are really different in the middle of the night, is it better to choose psychological time and just go into the trance? :Cheeky:

----------


## MrOMGWTF

> Hi, i have 2 questions regarding SSILD, which i will be focusing more in the future, as i need to spend less time with induction techniques. ( i have been having great sucess with an extended time WILD technique, sometimes 3 hours,  and i higly suspect i am just doing a long version of SSILD )
> 
> this is from your most recent tutorial available on your blog. is it just a recommendation for better chances or is it a necessary step ? also, what do you mean by few extra medium-paced cycles ?  
> 
> *Real Awakening: You wake up again after doing SSILD. You do a reality check and this time it is real. Do not despair. You still have chances. Try to stay still, and immediately relax your head, allowing the back of it to sink into the pillow. Then you need to perform a few extra medium-paced SSILD cycles. At this stage it is quite possible for you to encounter strong hypnagogia sensations. If not, just finish the cycles and go to sleep. You will have a much higher chance to succeed this time*
> 
> my second question is : i have an app on my phone which helps me with SSILD. after each quick and long cycle it makes a quick sound so i can do it each cycle with more efficiency. do you see any inconvenience ? i feel like psychological time and real time are really different in the middle of the night, is it better to choose psychological time and just go into the trance?



That sound will get you out of the trance.

----------


## Sensei

I think the fact that it is alerting your mind instead of just you thinking that it is time to switch will cause you to snap out of it. That is why he says not to count in the first place I believe.

----------


## reveriemyst

Hi, I just wanted to sincerely thank CosmicIron and everyone involved in developing/sharing this technique. This has worked amazingly well for me right off the bat, as opposed to DILD, MILD, WILD (just couldn't get the hang of those  ::whyme::  ). So a big THANKS!  :smiley:

----------


## Scizorist

Hello everyone, this is my first post ever on this forum and was motivated by my very first lucid dream as a result of this method. I've been trying to have a lucid dream for what seems like almost 2 months now trying different methods such as MILD and WILD but it never seemed to work. 

I read this method on the forum LITERALLY 2 hours ago, decided to test it out and it worked successfully the FIRST TIME??!! I became lucid via DILD midway into a normal dream but as soon as I realized I was dreaming I thought "oh my god I need to stabilize the dream" and started rubbing my hands together. However unfortunately the dream faded a few seconds later because I assume I became too excited.

Anyways big thanks to CosmicIron for developing and explaining such a straightforward and simple method that worked for me personally on the first attempt!

----------


## Ctharlhie

Always avoided this (not sure why, seemed too good to be true. Bad reason, I know).

Anyway, last night I did a few short cycles and a few long cycles, I definitely entered trance state and experienced some cool hypnagogia, I'm well versed in the hypnagogic state from WILD attempts ad nauseum.

Resulted in a semi-lucid dream that was very vivid before I even became semi lucid. Recall seemed improved, too. I'm quite experienced at MILD so that may be a factor.

I'm gonna stick with it and report back here  :smiley:

----------


## reveriemyst

> Hello everyone, this is my first post ever on this forum and was motivated by my very first lucid dream as a result of this method. I've been trying to have a lucid dream for what seems like almost 2 months now trying different methods such as MILD and WILD but it never seemed to work. 
> 
> I read this method on the forum LITERALLY 2 hours ago, decided to test it out and it worked successfully the FIRST TIME??!! I became lucid via DILD midway into a normal dream but as soon as I realized I was dreaming I thought "oh my god I need to stabilize the dream" and started rubbing my hands together. However unfortunately the dream faded a few seconds later because I assume I became too excited.
> 
> Anyways big thanks to CosmicIron for developing and explaining such a straightforward and simple method that worked for me personally on the first attempt!



Congratulations! Isn't it great? I am so thankful for finding this technique. Has worked wonders for me.  :smiley: 

I found this method about a month ago, tried it, and the very first night had a wonderful lucid.  :Happy:  I held off though immediately attributing this success to SSILD on the off chance that it was a placebo, but sure enough, after repeated successes with this method, wanted to give thanks where it was due.  ::thanks:: 





> Always avoided this (not sure why, seemed too good to be true. Bad reason, I know).
> 
> Anyway, last night I did a few short cycles and a few long cycles, I definitely entered trance state and experienced some cool hypnagogia, I'm well versed in the hypnagogic state from WILD attempts ad nauseum.
> 
> Resulted in a semi-lucid dream that was very vivid before I even became semi lucid. Recall seemed improved, too. I'm quite experienced at MILD so that may be a factor.
> 
> I'm gonna stick with it and report back here



Good luck! I hope all goes well.  :smiley: 

I'm not too great (not great at all, actually  :Cheeky:  ) with the MILD technique, but this technique was laid out so concisely for me as a step-by-step, that it took all the guesswork out of inducing this or that, and has consistently helped me with lucid dreaming.  :smiley: 
I hope it does the same for you!

Oh, and when it hasn't worked for me it was because I was doing it wrong. Not cycling enough, going to sleep too fast.. etc.

----------


## Ctharlhie

Couple of lucid FAs last night. I can see why this is a powerful beginner technique.

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## reveriemyst

The FA's kill me. And my RC's aren't the best. I've tried pushing my hand through the walls, no luck.  :tongue2:  Looking at my hands, nothing unusual, I haven't tried nose plug RC's so that'll be my next try. Seems a lot of this is trial and error for some people and we just have to keep practicing different techniques/methods that work best for us. While others, luckily for them  ::wink::  , are naturals.

----------


## Ctharlhie

Fully lucid this morning after WBTB and SSILD:

23/05/13 - Attempted three step task for competition thread - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Also had extremely vivid FA

----------


## rynkrt3

I have been an on-and-off lucid dreamer for the past few years.  Never finding true success with any method I've tried.   I have tried SSILD a few times with no success.  I like the simplicity and sustainability of this technique and would like to master it.  I have a few clarifications to ask.  For anyone who has had repeated sucsess with this method, what is your typical SSILD attempt like?

I usually WBTB for X amount of time,  lay down and relax for a few minutes then cycle until my random thoughts start to take over.  I then fall asleep.  Never had any results.   

If anyone is willing to help me improve my SSILD I would greatly appreciate it, as lucid dreaming is a huge interest of mine but it has been on the back burner for quite a while with life getting in the way and this method seems promising without taking to much time out of my daily life.

Thanks  ::D:

----------


## Ctharlhie

> If anyone is willing to help me improve my SSILD I would greatly appreciate it, as lucid dreaming is a huge interest of mine but it has been on the back burner for quite a while *with life getting in the way and this method seems promising without taking to much time out of my daily life.*



This is where you're going wrong. There is no silver bullet that will replace the work of training in self-awareness. Yeah we all wish that there was some sure fire trick that requires no work, but lucid dreaming does take work and dedication. Real life gets in the way, we all have to deal with that. The mistake is in drawing a dichotomy between real life and dream. Lucid dreaming should be part of an adaptive practice of lucid living, and lucid dreaming provide many waking life benefits.

I believe that SSILD has the potential to train awareness otherwise people wouldn't have success with it in isolation, but be prepared to put the work.

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## reveriemyst

> Fully lucid this morning after WBTB and SSILD:
> 
> _ (deleted the url link . Can't link anything yet.)_ 
> 
> Also had extremely vivid FA



That's great!  ::D: 

I had a wonderful lucid today followed by a FA. That FA was incredibly realistic. In it I was writing down the lucid I just had. Crazy.  :tongue2: 






> Lucid dreaming should be part of an adaptive practice of lucid living, and lucid dreaming provide many waking life benefits.



Lucid dreaming (well, dreaming in general) has become a life passion/hobby of mine.  ::content::  It's like living another life to me.  :tongue2:

----------


## CosmicIron

> I have been an on-and-off lucid dreamer for the past few years.  Never finding true success with any method I've tried.   I have tried SSILD a few times with no success.  I like the simplicity and sustainability of this technique and would like to master it.  I have a few clarifications to ask.  For anyone who has had repeated sucsess with this method, what is your typical SSILD attempt like?
> 
> I usually WBTB for X amount of time,  lay down and relax for a few minutes then cycle until my random thoughts start to take over.  I then fall asleep.  Never had any results.   
> 
> If anyone is willing to help me improve my SSILD I would greatly appreciate it, as lucid dreaming is a huge interest of mine but it has been on the back burner for quite a while with life getting in the way and this method seems promising without taking to much time out of my daily life.
> 
> Thanks



Sounds like you are performing the technique correctly. Assuming that is true (I can't tell for sure without more details given), then you should watch for False Awakenings. Do you wake up multiple times after doing SSILD? If the answer is yes, then chances are those were FAs, or trances which can be easily manipulated into a WILD. If the answer is no, then it is likely you have not had sufficient sleep prior to doing the exercise. Hope this helps and good luck!

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hello everyone, this is my first post ever on this forum and was motivated by my very first lucid dream as a result of this method. I've been trying to have a lucid dream for what seems like almost 2 months now trying different methods such as MILD and WILD but it never seemed to work. 
> 
> I read this method on the forum LITERALLY 2 hours ago, decided to test it out and it worked successfully the FIRST TIME??!! I became lucid via DILD midway into a normal dream but as soon as I realized I was dreaming I thought "oh my god I need to stabilize the dream" and started rubbing my hands together. However unfortunately the dream faded a few seconds later because I assume I became too excited.
> 
> Anyways big thanks to CosmicIron for developing and explaining such a straightforward and simple method that worked for me personally on the first attempt!



Wow that feels good  :tongue2:  I have been quite busy with a personal project lately so I didn't log in for some time. It's always good to see someone put the technique to use and have success with it! I'm still watching this thread closely so should you have any questions do not hesitate to ask. Cheers

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hi, I just wanted to sincerely thank CosmicIron and everyone involved in developing/sharing this technique. This has worked amazingly well for me right off the bat, as opposed to DILD, MILD, WILD (just couldn't get the hang of those  ). So a big THANKS!



My pleasure, as always.  :smiley:

----------


## Ctharlhie

@Cosmic; I've had a lucid dream every time I've used SSILD with WBTB. While I'm not sure whether I would have had the LDs if my induction attempts weren't backed up by meditation and lucid living, according to you SSILD is impaired by any other awareness work, I may try it alone next week. Regardless of the nuances, this has legs for sure, it's only the second day of the week and I've already hit my goal for 4 lucid dreams this week. I tip my hat, CosmicIron, this is legit.


Also, I've noticed that people in this thread seem to have some weird ideas about the placebo effect. Let's get this clear, if this was a thread proposing a pharmaceutical induction of lucid dreams, _then_ it would be appropriate to question whether the effects were due to placebo. Placebo refers to the degree to which results from a drug are due to psychological, and not physiological, effects. Placebos are fake pills used to test the validity of drugs to see whether patients get better from the pills only because they expect to, because doctors have to be sure what they're measuring, because people could die. 

To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo is literally retarded. And for the record, auto-suggestion and intention is to be found in _every_ induction technique.

Yes, SSILD is placebo, insofar as every time you induce a lucid dream is a placebo.

EDIT: I may seem to be making a big deal (I am), but I don't have any vested interest in SSILD, this is a pet peeve and I'm pedantic. People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.

----------


## Bobblehat

> People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.







> To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo* is literally retarded.*



"Literally retarded"? Intelligent discourse doesn't get any more intelligent than that!

----------


## reveriemyst

> @Cosmic; I've had a lucid dream every time I've used SSILD with WBTB. While I'm not sure whether I would have had the LDs if my induction attempts weren't backed up by meditation and lucid living, according to you SSILD is impaired by any other awareness work, I may try it alone next week. Regardless of the nuances, this has legs for sure, it's only the second day of the week and I've already hit my goal for 4 lucid dreams this week. I tip my hat, CosmicIron, this is legit.
> 
> 
> Also, I've noticed that people in this thread seem to have some weird ideas about the placebo effect. Let's get this clear, if this was a thread proposing a pharmaceutical induction of lucid dreams, _then_ it would be appropriate to question whether the effects were due to placebo. Placebo refers to the degree to which results from a drug are due to psychological, and not physiological, effects. Placebos are fake pills used to test the validity of drugs to see whether patients get better from the pills only because they expect to, because doctors have to be sure what they're measuring, because people could die. 
> 
> To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo is literally retarded. And for the record, auto-suggestion and intention is to be found in _every_ induction technique.
> 
> Yes, SSILD is placebo, insofar as every time you induce a lucid dream is a placebo.
> 
> EDIT: I may seem to be making a big deal (I am), but I don't have any vested interest in SSILD, this is a pet peeve and I'm pedantic. People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.



 ::whyme::  I saw the term throughout this thread and wondered, "Okay, I did SSILD once, but maybe that was just a one-time luck deal.  :tongue2:  " Didn't know what other term to use.  :Cheeky:  (probably should have just used 'the good luck' reason, but then with my luck (ha! I used that term again), someone would come on debating the existence of 'luck'.  :tongue2: 

I do wonder though about the people who go through faith healing or whatever it's called. Are they not experiencing some sort of placebo effect, even without any substances of any kind?  ::?:  (genuine question)

Anywho, my bad. Sorry if it peeved you.  :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

It has come to my attention that lately, there is a person named summerlander who has been openly criticizing SSILD and myself on several forums, calling the technique a plagiarized version of Michael Raduga's "Indirect Methods" as well as referring me as "liars". I first found his post on Raduga's forum. After posting a reply to defend myself I got kicked out of the forum, without any warning and explanation, except a message saying "Get lost, you lying creep!" 

This person centered his attack on my use of the word "phase" in the SSILD document. He considers that an evidence of me stealing from Raduga who is supposed to be sole proprietor of this phrase. I replied by basically saying -- 

1. You can't judge the technique by the word I chose to describe the phenomena, which has nothing to do with the technique itself. If you are going to call this technique a pirated version of something else then please compare the contents, not the words. 

2. I did not adopt the phrase in my original documents which can be found in both Chinese, and on this forum under the title "A Practical Recipe for Inducing Lucid Dreams and OBEs." I only adopted the phrase during my revision of the tutorial in order to find a neutral word to describe the various phenomenon including LD, OBE, FA, etc. 

3. I did not delete or edit any of the original SSILD-related postings, which are all here on this forum in their original form. Saying me "going to great lengths to get rid of the original descriptive document that he posted online" (quoted from summerlander) is beyond speculation, and really is vicious defamation.  

Unfortunately he chose to ignore the facts I provided and instead kicked me out of the forum, which action now led me suspect he might be in some way associated with Rudga's obe4u.com setup.  That's fine with me since I got my chance to explain and defend myself at least to some degree. However, I later noticed that this person has been posting similar attacks on several other forums too. As such, I feel it is important to make clear my stance on this matter. I made a blog post about this but probably no one will see it, LOL. Since this thread is where I provide support to everyone interested in SSILD, I decided to publish my statement here as well --

The SSILD technique is NOT a derived work from Mr. Raduga's Indirect Method, period. It may be similar on surface, but it is sufficiently different from both fundamentals and technical details. In addition, as its creator, I did not have the intention to "clearly wanted to make a name for himself", quoting from this person. Whether in my native Chinese forums or the various western forums where I posted this technique, I have always remained anonymous, using solely my online screen names. Even during some of the online interviews I chose not to reveal my real world identity. Nor have I any vested commercial interests in the subject of lucid dreaming, unlike that of Mr. Raduga. 

Having said all that, I will leave you to judge by yourself. The technique is clearly explained (so is Raduga's) so you are welcome to compare them. All of my writings are here and some on LD4all, and they are all there in unaltered form. And if you have questions or doubts, please let me know and I will be happy to answer them, as always.

Cheers

----------


## Summerlander

And you are still lying.  I've already explained the reasons why and it is not solely the usage of the terminology that I find you suspicious.  Here is the evidence of what went on for all to see:

OBE4U.com Forum &bull; View topic - Plagiarism: "SSILD" taken from The Phase Guidebook

The behaviour of a desperate man trying to save face... and his ego.  I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and will not tolerate your conduct.  How convenient that after all these years you remember to mention the author of indirect techniques and cycling when under questioning by several curious members of various cyber-societies.

Whether it was originally written in Chinese or Japanese, it does not exempt you from suspicion or blame.  And to use that as an excuse, or to even skew my reasoning behind it, is suspicious in itself.  Any distinctions that you now make between what you and Raduga propound isn't proof of your authorship either.  It is very easy to append to what others have put forth before, and worse, to claim to add something new when there is leeway for idiosyncrasies clearly outlined in The Phase Guidebook.

Your earlier versions add nothing new.  Your updates aren't something that the School of Out-of-Body Travel has overlooked either.

----------


## CosmicIron

> And you are still lying.  I've already explained the reasons why and it is not solely the usage of the terminology that I find you suspicious.  Here is the evidence of what went on for all to see:
> 
> OBE4U.com Forum • View topic - Plagiarism: "SSILD" taken from The Phase Guidebook
> 
> The behaviour of a desperate man trying to save face... and his ego.  I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and will not tolerate your conduct.  How convenient that after all these years you remember to mention the author of indirect techniques and cycling when under questioning by several curious members of various cyber-societies.
> 
> Whether it was originally written in Chinese or Japanese, it does not exempt you from suspicion or blame.  And to use that as an excuse, or to even skew my reasoning behind it, is suspicious in itself.  Any distinctions that you now make between what you and Raduga propound isn't proof of your authorship either.  It is very easy to append to what others have put forth before, and worse, to claim to add something new when there is leeway for idiosyncrasies clearly outlined in The Phase Guidebook.
> 
> Your earlier versions add nothing new.  Your updates aren't something that the School of Out-of-Body Travel has overlooked either.



So you have followed me to this thread and indeed you are affiliated with Raduga! You made it appear as if I mentioned Raduga in this thread as an attempt to cover up when under questioning. But the truth is that I was simply answering those questions directly and I made it very clear that despite the similarities on the surface there are fundamental differences. I have given similar explanation when people asked what the differences are between SSILD and WILD, DILDS, MILD, and etc., and should I be blamed for stealing from those as well? 

As far as I can see, you made up in your mind that SSILD was stolen from Raduga and is blinded by ignorance and hatred, to the point you choose to ignore my clearly provided evidence and analysis. Your criticism is based entirely on speculation yet you did not heisitate to attack me with some most vicious words. I do not know who is more “desperate?” 

In my original text I had a disclaimer saying that people are free to treat SSILD as a new method or a clone of other methods because not everyone is able to see and appreciate some of the subtle differences. So yes you are free to think SSILD is a clone of Raduga's method (and I don't want to even bother to explain it anymore), but calling me liar is simply going too far. It's good you followed me here so people can have a good look at how malicious you, and possibly the "school" you represent, truly are. I still have a lot of respect to Mr. Raduga for his technical excellence but you have brought him nothing but disgrace.

----------


## Summerlander

You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name.  And what's with the extra "S" anyway.  The fact that you get so defensive under questioning only highlights your culpability.  This will haunt you and weigh on your conscience for a long time.  You give off all the signs of a plagiarist.

For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here.  I've been a member of this site for a long time.  But it is curious that you look your "own" method up online and that has led you to stumble upon my suspicions on OBE4u.  Very noble of you to be defamatory straight away without producing one ounce of a good and convincing explanation.  Good day, sir.

----------


## Ctharlhie

I don't think it is possible to copyright a state of consciousness...

----------


## Meskhetyw

As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is _excellent_. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term?

Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth.

----------


## CosmicIron

> You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name.  And what's with the extra "S" anyway.  The fact that you get so defensive under questioning only highlights your culpability.  This will haunt you and weigh on your conscience for a long time.  You give off all the signs of a plagiarist.
> 
> For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here.  I've been a member of this site for a long time.  But it is curious that you look your "own" method up online and that has led you to stumble upon my suspicions on OBE4u.  Very noble of you to be defamatory straight away without producing one ounce of a good and convincing explanation.  Good day, sir.



It shows you didn't even bother to go through the SSILD threads carefully because the reason of the double S was clearly explained in the first few pages. I'd expect someone who openly accuse me to such degree at least perform his homework -- study carefully the subject and get some hard evidence. Yet all you have done is throwing flames at me based entirely on suspicion. Now I may be defensive but why shouldn't I? Why should I be blamed for "crime" I did not commit? You sir, are not being reasonable, to say the least.

----------


## CosmicIron

> As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is _excellent_. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term?
> 
> Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth.



When I read Raduga's book I thought the use of the word "phase" is a pretty good one. While writing the revised version of the SSILD tutorial, I often needed to refer to this state(s) of consciousness, but I did not want to tie the technique with any particular belief system. As a result I adopted the "phase" term, and in a few occasions even defended it when questioned by a few people. After this incident though I think I'm going to take out this word from all my writings. Nothing against the concept, just some bad taste in the mouth.

As for the cycling, while it may look similar to Raduga's, they are actually entirely different animals. Raduga uses these as a way to actively enter the "phase" (damn I'm using it again), and he makes no distinctions on what you use -- in fact, he has a whole slew of "techniques" for you to choose from in an a la carte fashion including some strange stuff like squeezing the brain. As you can see, these are "techniques" in their own rights, so basically his "cycling" is the rapid chaining of various "techniques". 

SSILD, on the other hand, was based on the Buddhism ideology of the "six senses" (thus the name). In my early document I claimed that no one knew why this stuff worked, particularly I was referring to a scientific explanation. The development of the technique though was not an accident. I figured, based on the Buddhism ideology, we might be able to get something to work by stimulating the various senses. It's not scientific, but it doesn't hurt to try! Initially I wanted to stimulate all six senses but that simply was not possible, especially the 6th one, LOL. Therefore I reduced it to the more basic 3, and tried it myself, and what do you know, it actually worked! I showed it to a member of my forum who at the same was struggling to get WILD to work, and within a few days it worked on him too! And that's how this stuff was developed, so no, it was NOT inspired by Raduga's work. 

Initially the technique was composed of rather long "stimulations" to the 3 senses, and ask the user to stay awake after performing the stimulations by occasionally glancing the darkness -- this can be seen in the very first version of the English text as well which was under the title "A practical recipe to induce LDs and OBEs". This, of course, had the side effect of causing insomnia for many people. It was then we decided to further reduce the length of each step to the point it became more "cycle"-like. Compare this with Raduga's cycles, we see fundamental differences: 1. Each step of the SSILD cycle is NOT a technique by itself, unlike that of Raduga's. 2. Each cycle is designed to target and only target the 3 senses, nothing else! They are chosen on purpose, not randomly. 3. The aim of the cycles is to fully stimulate the senses, not to succeed in entering a "phase" (now I hate myself). This last item was stressed since day one, and where do you see that mentioned in Raduga's texts? You don't because that's not how he intended his "cycles" to be used for, and that difference is crucial. Summerlander apparently does not understand either sides well enough for that he fails to identify this defining difference.

Anyway, I'm tired of defending myself from this person since it appears that his mind is so fixed on his conspiracy stories beyond reason. I think I've explained myself and the SSILD technique clearly enough so readers have enough materials to make their own judgement call.

----------


## Meskhetyw

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Indeed, the cycling in "The Phase" is clearly a different concept in it's immediate purpose; even without all those other arguments. I am familiar with the separation techniques and have tried SSILD recently. To find any real similarity apart from words would be difficult.

----------


## VagalTone

There´s no authorship in lucid dreaming, nor even MILD or WILD, except devices like NovaDreamer and so on.

This is as old as humanity. From young children to very old, frail people. Rich and poor. 

It´s ok to say this guy is the author of this or that, but in the end it doesn´t matter.

----------


## CosmicIron

> There´s no authorship in lucid dreaming, nor even MILD or WILD, except devices like NovaDreamer and so on.
> 
> This is as old as humanity. From young children to very old, frail people. Rich and poor. 
> 
> It´s ok to say this guy is the author of this or that, but in the end it doesn´t matter.



Very true. This is also one of the reasons I chose just to remain anonymous. And in fact, in the beginning I didn't even bother to call this a "technique", and instead referred to it as a "recipe".

----------


## Darkmatters

It seems maybe Summerlander is trying to make a name for himself - wanting to move up in the Raduga empire by playing attack dog? It's really hard to understand why he's so vicious about these attacks. If Raduga is angry about it, maybe he should talk it out with CosmicIron himself, and probably off the board would be a lot more professional, rather than this flame war tactic. All Summerlander is doing is making everyone involved look bad. 

Isn't it all about spreading the knowledge and information freely?

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## gab

> You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name.  
> 
> For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here.  I've been a member of this site for a long time.



What do you know. What you are accusing cosmic iron from doing, you are doing yourself. This is a quote from your post, summerlander, from website I will not name. Simple search of the phrase will show anybody interested where it comes from.





> Btw, if I post my experiences here, forgive me if the terminology I use slips out. I usually refer to lucid dreams and out-of-body experiences as a sole state of consciousness that I call "the phase".



You don't you say "I use the word 'phase' _invented by_ Raduga." You say _you_ call it that way. So what gives?

And technically, yes, you did follow cosmic iron here. He joined in august and you in october.

----------


## EmptyBucket

So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far

*Things I've noticed while using SSILD*
-Dream recall skyrockets
-I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen)
-I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's)
-Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway

*Some thoughts*
I will continue with this technique because I haven't had much luck with the other techniques
and my dream recall has been rather bad lately, and SSILD has improved that, It strange how
this technique works and I notice how it's described as "setting off a time bomb, to go off in your dream"
in the updated guide

I don't really understand that quote and was hoping for some clearification, but I do believe this could be
a great helping hand technique for beginners and I appreciate any input or advice from fellow SSILDers

Thanks,
-EmptyBucket

----------


## Meskhetyw

_"You don't you say "I use the word 'phase' invented by Raduga." You say you call it that way. So what gives?"_

If that isn't justice I don't know what is. Gab; you're good.

----------


## CosmicIron

> So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far
> 
> *Things I've noticed while using SSILD*
> -Dream recall skyrockets
> -I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen)
> -I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's)
> -Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway
> 
> *Some thoughts*
> ...



SSILD is sort of a hybrid of WILD and DILD techniques. I say that because it is possible for it to cause both types of dreams to happen. However, to use SSILD more effectively we should lean more on the DILD side, and treat WILD as solely a side effect. Now for DILD to happen of course we need to be dreaming/sleeping first. Thus the most important part of SSILD really is how quickly you can fall asleep after performing the exercise. The more quickly you fall asleep, the higher chance you will have at getting a DILD, FA, or suddenly awaken into an OBE (I hate to use this word but I'm now banned to use the other word I preferred, LOL). 

Of course there is no guarantee that SSILD will give you a DILD, but at least if you do it right it won't take you too long and you will have many more nights to try. On the other hand if you try too hard and end up not being able to sleep, then you will miss the opportunity of getting a DILD as well as precious sleep! For people who are just starting with this the hardest thing to do is not the technique itself, but "letting go". 

Having said all that, I want to add that SSILD is actually not a hit or miss type of technique once you learn it. It is almost guaranteed that after you do it you will run into some sort of FA or semi-FAs which you can utilize to turn into full blown LD experiences. Once you master this part it can give you near 100% success rate.

I hope this helps. Cheers.

----------


## CosmicIron

> What do you know. What you are accusing cosmic iron from doing, you are doing yourself. This is a quote from your post, summerlander, from website I will not name. Simple search of the phrase will show anybody interested where it comes from.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't you say "I use the word 'phase' _invented by_ Raduga." You say _you_ call it that way. So what gives?
> 
> And technically, yes, you did follow cosmic iron here. He joined in august and you in october.



Thank you gab. BTW, I did not join in August. In fact I had been on this forum for many more years but after I registered this account my other one got banned and deleted, LOL.

----------


## LittleStar

So I tried this a couple of months ago for a couple of weeks, but was more using it as a meditation to get to sleep quickly, which seemed to work I think, but I looked over it again a few days ago and have been using it the last two nights. I haven't got lucidyet, and have run into a couple of problems/questions. 

How do I know if I'm concentrating or focusing on my closed eyelids, or if I'm looking at the blackness created by my mind? Or does it matter, along as I'm focusing othe visual?

Next, I don't seem very adept at switching between the cycles, which is strange in itself, as I usually wouldn't have a problem doing that... Does it matter tht it might take a few seconds to stop thinking about the visual, once I've told myself to start thinking about the audio? And connected to this, I still hear the audio when and see th visual etc when performing the other cycles... Is that's problem?.

And finally, when doing it upon waking I tend to get distracted very easily I think, by all the images and the dreamless that form. I do catch Myself and tell myself to return to the start ofthe cycle that I was in, but then Id get distracted easily again. Should I be waking myself up more in this case... And connected, is it a problem to fall asleep while doing the cycles, I did last night I think... From what I can gather this is something akin to a MILD technique, whic wouldn't matter if I fell asleep, but you seem adamant that one should finish the cycles and then sleep and that one shouldnt be doing any other methods with this(is this just during the sleep process, or does that extend to awareness etc during the day?)

Sorry, there was more than I thought, thanks for the tech, it does seem very promising to me. Once I smooth out a few kinks that is ::D:

----------


## CosmicIron

> How do I know if I'm concentrating or focusing on my closed eyelids, or if I'm looking at the blackness created by my mind? Or does it matter, along as I'm focusing othe visual?



Both are okay, actually. The only problem with the former is that you may end up causing a lot of stress to your eye muscle and become unable to sleep. To be able to use SSILD effectively, one really needs to understand the design philosophy behind it -- Lucid dream induction is largely a mental exercise, and therefore is rather delicate. Very subtle differences in what you do and the conditions can cause dramatic differences in the outcomes. SSILD was designed to minimize this issue. Instead of requiring a lot of finesse from the users, it goes the opposite, asking the users to perform each step without too much concern and effort. Basically, just DO it without thinking too much. I find that people who have difficulty with SSILD are usually the analytical type -- they tend to analyze too much, thus bringing in too much rational thoughts and discipline into the process. SSILD aims to be a "technique", not "art". Thus, you should really do the same. In Chinese we have a saying "Little monk reads sutras without heart, just the mouth." Now to do SSILD properly we need exactly that! LOL. So basically, it doesn't matter whether you are focusing or staring. Just do it! Better yet, do it without putting in too much effort.





> Next, I don't seem very adept at switching between the cycles



Again, it's perfectly fine. In fact it is often a good sign. When this happens it means you are getting close to falling asleep. Just try to finish the required four sets and you are done. Don't worry if you got the orders wrong, or there are moments you completely blacked out. It's fine to get those senses overlapped too. I do that all the time. 

About the distraction you mentioned upon waking... I'm not sure I understand it correctly. Do you mean you see things while doing the exercise? If that's the case then you are encountering hypnagogia which is great! It means you are drifting into dreams while still being conscious. If they do get intense then just stop cycling and do an RC. Chances are you are already in a dream.

Falling asleep while doing the exercise is okay too, but if fall asleep too quickly then you may not have warmed it up sufficiently for things to occur later. I suggest that you at least finish the 4 sets. If that becomes difficult then it's a sign you have not had sufficient sleep prior to that. In this case you should rest well before attempting the exercise.

As for comparing to MILD, no, I'd say it is completely different. MILD, IMO, is almost exactly the opposite of SSILD. It is exactly the kind of problem SSILD tries to solve -- delicate mental exercise. In SSILD, you do NOT need any type of autosuggestions, visualizations, imaging things, etc. Just do the steps in the dumbest fashion and it will work! Do the opposite, you might as well go with the other techniques.  :smiley: 

I don't recommend mixing other techniques during SSILD, and I don't recommend stuff like meditation prior to doing SSILD. Those exercises are designed to put your mind into a specific state, which may not be optimal as a launching pad for SSILD. Stuff you do during the day doesn't really matter, for example, ADA. However, I'm always skeptical of their effectiveness... but that's another subject.

I hope this helps. Good luck!  :tongue2:

----------


## LittleStar

Thanks forthe quick reply, and thanks for clarifying. As you have identified, i am a very analytical person, but I attempted this again, with my new 'dont think about it' stance. Unfortunately, I don't know if I was too awake to begin with, but thoughts were popping into my head, my 'active brain' kicked in, there were conversations and songs and scenarios for all sorts of things playing in my head, which prevented me from falling asleep again, so I had to wake up at 4.30am:/

These were the distractions I was talking about, I find it very difficult to quiet them down, and it's frustrating when the only advice you can find online is, 'just let these thoughts pass by' lol. When I wake in the night I do quiet often experience what I think is hypnagogia, basically just a short dream that plays in the darkness behind my eyes, almost more audio thatn visual, and I'm fully aware I'm awake during. They rarely get vivid enough to warrant an RC, and i think a problem is that they arent about me, usually just a wierd conversation between to characters, so even if i did get into a lucid situation from them, i wouldnt be there to do an RC... If that makes any sense. Should I be attempting perhaps to cultivate is dreamlet into a more personal thing, involving me doing something and eventually into a lucid, or is that getting into WILD territory lol.

Thanks again, I'm fairly convinced about the technique after reading all the success stories and am happy thinking that it will work for me, I just need to get over the hurdle first :smiley:

----------


## Bobblehat

> Stuff you do during the day doesn't really matter, for example, ADA. However, I'm always skeptical of their effectiveness... but that's another subject.



Why are you skeptical? (Feel free to reply in private or start another thread if you don't want to go off topic too much.)

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## Ctharlhie

Because of your sig I read everything you post with that sunglasses emoticon.

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## Bobblehat

You mean you think the sunglasses man is an integral part of the post?

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## fogelbise

> Thanks forthe quick reply, and thanks for clarifying. As you have identified, i am a very analytical person...



I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it.

I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my strong suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique).

----------


## tofur

> Why are you skeptical? (Feel free to reply in private or start another thread if you don't want to go off topic too much.)



I'm interested in hearing that too.

----------


## melanieb

> Why are you skeptical? (Feel free to reply in private or start another thread if you don't want to go off topic too much.)




I, too, would also be interested in this reply.

You have your audience, CosmicIron, please share your thoughts.   :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> Why are you skeptical? (Feel free to reply in private or start another thread if you don't want to go off topic too much.)



Both from experience and observation. Recently we conducted a survey on our forum among more than 400 volunteers. Part of the survey is to compare how well some of the well-known techniques worked. The result is not favorable to ADA and similar techniques. The survey is by no means well designed and its very possible the result is erroneous. However I believe it does offer some useful references on this subject. I will not get into details here because I don't want to start a flame war. Your welcome to write me in private if you wish to discuss this subject.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it.
> 
> I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my strong suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique).



This is so well put I have nothing more to add! I will redirect my answer to your post instead.

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## CosmicIron

Hi, please see the post below by fogelbise. That should give you the answer you are looking for!

----------


## Sageous

*CosmicIron:*  Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice?

I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious...

Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested  to risk another break from your thread.

----------


## CosmicIron

> I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it.
> 
> I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my strong suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique).



There are distinctions between active mind and those "dreamlets" (I love this word). The later, as you put it, is actually a good thing so there is no need to battle them. The former one though, is a major problem because it can keep you awake. I find that the more practice you have with SSILD, the more likely the cycles will help you quiet down those active thoughts so they are themselves instruments to help you relax. This, however, seems only true to people who have become used to the technique, not beginners. I still wouldn't advise mixing other techniques though because the state of our mind can be influenced by very subtle things. Therefore introducing extra ingredients may create dramatically different conditions. Who knows, they could be better than the one from SSILD, but for people who are just starting I'd advise against doing it. For those who are proficient with SSILD that's a different story of course. Experiment however you like and if you find a more effective combo by all means please let me know so we can improve this technique!

----------


## CosmicIron

> *CosmicIron:*  Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice?
> 
> I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious...
> 
> Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested  to risk another break from your thread.



I'm referring to both actually, but in particular ADA because it is often seen by many as the "ultimate" so there are some really high expectations. One analogy I always like to use is the Jason Bourne story. In the first Bourne movie he demonstrated a very high level of awareness of his surroundings. I don't know if spies are really trained to be like that but if they are, then according to the ADA theory we will have many lucid dream masters among them. LOL.

----------


## tofur

I didn't realize ssild required practice and time to perfect, it seems really straightforward to me.  Whats the difference between a novice and experienced ssild-er?

edit:  does it usually take a bunch of repeated efforts before lucidity starts showing up?  like a couple weeks of doing ssild with wbtb every night or something?

----------


## fogelbise

> I didn't realize ssild required practice and time to perfect, it seems really straightforward to me.  Whats the difference between a novice and experienced ssild-er?
> 
> edit:  does it usually take a bunch of repeated efforts before lucidity starts showing up?  like a couple weeks of doing ssild with wbtb every night or something?



Both questions I'm sure CosmicIron can give you a much better answer on but I will say that on your second question in the edit: I have seen many accounts of people gaining lucidity within the first week of using the technique and some others that were struggling to get it to work. It seems to have a high early success rate...then again, maybe many people that have trouble with it do not post anything unless they are willing to ask for help.

Part 2





> *CosmicIron:*  Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice?
> 
> I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious...
> 
> Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested  to risk another break from your thread.



I don't know about ADA, and I see CosmicIron's response doubting both to some degree, but I definitely feel there is a place for some types of daily practice according to various accounts all over these forums. It would be good to know if there are certain practices that do more harm than good though. Sounds like a poll and/or a thread would be a good way to determine if certain practices have very few people standing behind them through their first hand experience or belief that the practice was important in their lucid dreaming journey.

----------


## Meskhetyw

> *CosmicIron:*  Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice?
> 
> I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious...
> 
> Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested  to risk another break from your thread.



I would also be very interested in such a thread. I am not sure if by all day awareness you are referring to the Yoga/Buddhist practice of mindfulness (I will read the tutorial now) but I have found the variation of Dream Yoga in moderate doses to be very beneficial. It would be interesting to get more viewpoints on the subject of awareness; as there are many types of awareness, some more beneficial than others, and some are beneficial in very different ways.

----------


## EmptyBucket

Well,

I've been trying this for around a week now

*Results*

-No lucids
-No false awakenings(at least I think? ::shock:: )
-Dream recall is great(very happy about this)

*My style*
So sometimes when attempting techniques to induce LDs I'm either very excited to attempt it, but other times when doing techniques I'm kind of just in a "whatever" mindset(ie, it would be cool to have a lucid tonight but if not.. meh), It would be helpful if someone could tell me which mindset is most resourceful for lucid dreaming as I know mindsets are HUGE in success.

But latey I've been waking up, doing the cycles somewhat carelessly and sometimes extremely carelessly, just kind of messing around with that. Every morning I wake up and I remember my dreams and it's starting to get rare that I remember nothing(which is awesome :wink2: ).

Although, I've been having some moments where I feel like when I was in the dream I could've done something, like I was 1/4 conscious. Very hard to explain it just feels like the day following the dream I felt like I was close enough to attain lucidity.

*Some thoughts*

I enjoy doing this method but I'm hungering to attempt other methods such as WILD, but at the same time I feel like I should stick to this method as it's yielding better results than I've had with WILD, DILD(had 2 short lucid, idk bout this one). But I feel like this can also be a good stepping stone for beginners to increase recall and I would recommend this method to people with bad recall.

----------


## Bobblehat

> I will not get into details here because I don't want to start a flame war.



Hmmm. Are we not on a bit of a slippery slope if we avoid potentially interesting discussions just because it could start a flame war?

----------


## tofur

just had a lengthy lucid and a FA via ssild last night.  I'd say this was my 9th or 10th attempt, I was starting to have doubts.  The FA was weird, the dream blacked out and I was "awake", but felt fuzzy.  I plugged my nose and tried to breathe and it worked, I did it a few more times because it didn't make any sense, but then I like, forgot about it or something.  Maybe the issue was I never opened my eyes.  Weird.

Lucidity wasn't as clear as it could've been.  This is where I'm also curious as to the benefit of awareness practice.  Can it lead to increased awareness once your lucid in a dream, is that a potential use for it?  what do you guys do to increase your "waking consciousness" once you realize your dreaming?

----------


## EmptyBucket

Well, of course after I mention my no results I have a lucid, was very short in length but I was like jumping in and out of the lucid it was very weird. Like I kept losing lucidity and then regaining it.

I'm going to say it was a mix between SSILD and DEILD?
I say this because I did the cycles, went through another cycle of REM then woke up before the next cycle, then had the dream.

either way, if you want to read it, go for it.
6-14-2013 - Psycho Murder Accident and Owen Wilson - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

----------


## LittleStar

So, I have to assume that either this the doesn't work for me, or wasnt doing it right. I tried it for 4-5 days, I know it's not the lengthiest spell, but my recall in those days went down to near nothing, really just a vague image or two each night rather than any kind of full dream. I switched back to MILD with my usual mantras and mediation before sleep and immediately had much better recall.

I am inclined to think that I just fail at SSILD, as so many people can't be wrong about the tech, but I think for me I needed the mantra to focus on dreaming before sleeping, rather than focusing in external factors. As some above posts suggest, it could be that I need to press through until I become a little more used to a different kind focusing, or perhaps need to return to this once I'm a little more proficient and experienced with lucidity in general. (as a side note, I dont seem to ever get that initial jolt of lucidity with a new and interesting tech that many people seem to get, perhaps I'm too analytical for that, or pessimistic(realistic), but that I would say is a big problem for me and new methods... Just not sure how to overcome it, and set my mind up for decent expectation of lucidity.)

A quick point about the ADA, isn't want the thread to be hijacked by any means, but I would be interested in a thread about this, as I'm in the mind that ADA is the perfect tech, it makes sense to me that it should work, and I think I would attribute a lot of my lucid dreams to general awareness rather than a technique... In fact probably all (2 or 3) that weren't induced by fear. I would be very interested to hear other opinions and arguments, especially if there was experience fro the likes of Sageous weighing on the counter.

----------


## tofur

> So, I have to assume that either this the doesn't work for me, or wasnt doing it right. I tried it for 4-5 days, I know it's not the lengthiest spell, but my recall in those days went down to near nothing, really just a vague image or two each night rather than any kind of full dream. I switched back to MILD with my usual mantras and mediation before sleep and immediately had much better recall.
> 
> I am inclined to think that I just fail at SSILD, as so many people can't be wrong about the tech, but I think for me I needed the mantra to focus on dreaming before sleeping, rather than focusing in external factors. As some above posts suggest, it could be that I need to press through until I become a little more used to a different kind focusing, or perhaps need to return to this once I'm a little more proficient and experienced with lucidity in general. (as a side note, I dont seem to ever get that initial jolt of lucidity with a new and interesting tech that many people seem to get, perhaps I'm too analytical for that, or pessimistic(realistic), but that I would say is a big problem for me and new methods... Just not sure how to overcome it, and set my mind up for decent expectation of lucidity.)
> 
> A quick point about the ADA, isn't want the thread to be hijacked by any means, but I would be interested in a thread about this, as I'm in the mind that ADA is the perfect tech, it makes sense to me that it should work, and I think I would attribute a lot of my lucid dreams to general awareness rather than a technique... In fact probably all (2 or 3) that weren't induced by fear. I would be very interested to hear other opinions and arguments, especially if there was experience fro the likes of Sageous weighing on the counter.



dude just chill with the negative talk, I just had my first lucid from ssild and it took like 10 nights to get it.  My recall went down too some nights, and was really good some other nights.  I think there is some subtly to it, even though it is really straightforward, but I'd love to hear cosmiciron's opinion on that.

----------


## LittleStar

> dude just chill with the negative talk, I just had my first lucid from ssild and it took like 10 nights to get it.  My recall went down too some nights, and was really good some other nights.  I think there is some subtly to it, even though it is really straightforward, but I'd love to hear cosmiciron's opinion on that.




Oh no, I didn't mean to sound negative ::D:  I was merely saying that I think I found it more difficult than other methods, and I think the lack of concentration used for the cycles is the problem. I have a very narrow line between sleeping and wide awake. So I either wake up to much and my brain noise kicks in, so I don't sleep, or I fall asleep before the cycles are finished. It just going to take time to find the right balance between everything, and I think until I've found this median other methods ight be a little easier for me...

That said,it could well be that I didn't give this enough time. I think ill have a break for a week or so, then try again, if I get the same results then I'll know a little more. All about experimentation at this point in time for me :smiley:

----------


## CosmicIron

> I didn't realize ssild required practice and time to perfect, it seems really straightforward to me.  Whats the difference between a novice and experienced ssild-er?
> 
> edit:  does it usually take a bunch of repeated efforts before lucidity starts showing up?  like a couple weeks of doing ssild with wbtb every night or something?



Some people saw success on the first try, and some simply never get it. As much as I wanted SSILD to be idiot-proof it is still far from reaching that goal. With more practice, one can indeed increase the success rate of SSILD. The amount of effort required also decrease as one becomes more proficient.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Oh no, I didn't mean to sound negative I was merely saying that I think I found it more difficult than other methods, and I think the lack of concentration used for the cycles is the problem. I have a very narrow line between sleeping and wide awake. So I either wake up to much and my brain noise kicks in, so I don't sleep, or I fall asleep before the cycles are finished. It just going to take time to find the right balance between everything, and I think until I've found this median other methods ight be a little easier for me...
> 
> That said,it could well be that I didn't give this enough time. I think ill have a break for a week or so, then try again, if I get the same results then I'll know a little more. All about experimentation at this point in time for me



The trick is NEVER to concentrate when doing SSILD. Do not attempt to see/feel anything during the cycles. They are necessary evils, just get them over with so you can go to sleep -- that's the right attitude.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Well,
> 
> I've been trying this for around a week now
> 
> *Results*
> 
> -No lucids
> -No false awakenings(at least I think?)
> -Dream recall is great(very happy about this)
> ...



Your second approach is perfect. That's the way to do SSILD! However, I'm suspecting you might have overlooked some False Awakenings. Tell yourself to reality check every time you wake up after doing SSILD no matter how sure you are.

----------


## CosmicIron

> just had a lengthy lucid and a FA via ssild last night.  I'd say this was my 9th or 10th attempt, I was starting to have doubts.  The FA was weird, the dream blacked out and I was "awake", but felt fuzzy.  I plugged my nose and tried to breathe and it worked, I did it a few more times because it didn't make any sense, but then I like, forgot about it or something.  Maybe the issue was I never opened my eyes.  Weird.
> 
> Lucidity wasn't as clear as it could've been.  This is where I'm also curious as to the benefit of awareness practice.  Can it lead to increased awareness once your lucid in a dream, is that a potential use for it?  what do you guys do to increase your "waking consciousness" once you realize your dreaming?



IMO the fuzziness has nothing to do with awareness, but more to do with sleep cycles and other mind/body conditions. You can also perform some stabilization techniques to improve the quality, but if the conditions are not met then there is not much you can do.

----------


## CosmicIron

> So, I have to assume that either this the doesn't work for me, or wasnt doing it right. I tried it for 4-5 days, I know it's not the lengthiest spell, but my recall in those days went down to near nothing, really just a vague image or two each night rather than any kind of full dream. I switched back to MILD with my usual mantras and mediation before sleep and immediately had much better recall.
> 
> I am inclined to think that I just fail at SSILD, as so many people can't be wrong about the tech, but I think for me I needed the mantra to focus on dreaming before sleeping, rather than focusing in external factors. As some above posts suggest, it could be that I need to press through until I become a little more used to a different kind focusing, or perhaps need to return to this once I'm a little more proficient and experienced with lucidity in general. (as a side note, I dont seem to ever get that initial jolt of lucidity with a new and interesting tech that many people seem to get, perhaps I'm too analytical for that, or pessimistic(realistic), but that I would say is a big problem for me and new methods... Just not sure how to overcome it, and set my mind up for decent expectation of lucidity.)
> 
> A quick point about the ADA, isn't want the thread to be hijacked by any means, but I would be interested in a thread about this, as I'm in the mind that ADA is the perfect tech, it makes sense to me that it should work, and I think I would attribute a lot of my lucid dreams to general awareness rather than a technique... In fact probably all (2 or 3) that weren't induced by fear. I would be very interested to hear other opinions and arguments, especially if there was experience fro the likes of Sageous weighing on the counter.



In the lucid dreaming world I often see people say things like "this makes a lot of sense to me so it's probably a good technique." I beg to differ. In fact, I often like to see it from exactly the opposite angle -- because it seems to make a lot of sense it's probably NOT a good technique. Please keep in mind we know very little about how the brain works and what consciousness/awareness truly are. In this case, the rules we see as "correct" or "make sense" may not apply at all! Techniques that are invented this way often leads to nothing.

----------


## fogelbise

Sageous just posted his thread on whether ADA is beneficial to LDs here:
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html

I still have to go back and read it after work, but briefly on the fuzziness, I sometimes experience something similar when I'm really exhausted and I have been able to transition out of the "fuzziness" by imagining a new dreamscape.

----------


## Sageous

> Sageous just posted his thread on whether ADA is beneficial to LDs here:
> http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html



That went well...

----------


## tofur

> That went well...



Ron Burgundy - That Escalated Quickly - YouTube

----------


## CosmicIron

> Ron Burgundy - That Escalated Quickly - YouTube



LOL. This YouTube link is hilarious! That made my day!

----------


## qaz741

Success!
Been trying this for close to a week now and I just had my 2nd ever lucid, my 1st lucid being over a year ago.

There were a couple of differences between last nights SSILD "routine" than my previous failed attempts which I think helped.

Firstly, I was doing my ADA much more comprehensively yesterday compared to the previous days.
Secondly, the WBTB yesterday was naturally rather than due to an alarm clock. This is how it went: I went to sleep at about 10:30pm and set the alarm for 3:00am which would have meant I would wake up 4.5hrs after. But I ended up waking up at 11:57pm, feeling hot for some reason. Since my sleep was disturbed, I thought Ill just cancel the alarm, have a proper sleep and try again tomorrow. So i cancelled the alarmed. But then I naturally woke back up 4:17am needing to take a mad piss. So I went straight to the toilet and straight back but I decided I might as well do the cycles now. I did the cycles, went to sleep, and had a long and vivid lucid dream.

So what changed in my SSILD "routine" last night was that I woke up later than usual(4.17am compared to my usual 3:00am), and I also did the cycles differently. I kept reading CosmicIron saying on here that you need to do the cycles in a relaxed and not highly attentive matter but I just wasnt getting it and kept doing the cycles robotically. But last night, I decided that I would prioritize going back to sleep first and the cycles second. Meaning I was putting my main focus on going back to sleep and the cycles in the back of my head which kept me much more relaxed than usual. Of course by doing that, my mind kept drifting off but I would catch myself and continue the cycles. I ended up finishing about 3-4 decently long, albeit broken up due to my mind drifting off, cycles.
So there it is.


The main reason I posted this though is to thank CosmicIron for all your input in this thread and for introducing us to this technique. Im going to need to keep at this technique for a little longer to really have faith in it, but so far so good.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Success!
> Been trying this for close to a week now and I just had my 2nd ever lucid, my 1st lucid being over a year ago.
> 
> There were a couple of differences between last nights SSILD "routine" than my previous failed attempts which I think helped.
> 
> Firstly, I was doing my ADA much more comprehensively yesterday compared to the previous days.
> Secondly, the WBTB yesterday was naturally rather than due to an alarm clock. This is how it went: I went to sleep at about 10:30pm and set the alarm for 3:00am which would have meant I would wake up 4.5hrs after. But I ended up waking up at 11:57pm, feeling hot for some reason. Since my sleep was disturbed, I thought Ill just cancel the alarm, have a proper sleep and try again tomorrow. So i cancelled the alarmed. But then I naturally woke back up 4:17am needing to take a mad piss. So I went straight to the toilet and straight back but I decided I might as well do the cycles now. I did the cycles, went to sleep, and had a long and vivid lucid dream.
> 
> So what changed in my SSILD "routine" last night was that I woke up later than usual(4.17am compared to my usual 3:00am), and I also did the cycles differently. I kept reading CosmicIron saying on here that you need to do the cycles in a relaxed and not highly attentive matter but I just wasnt getting it and kept doing the cycles robotically. But last night, I decided that I would prioritize going back to sleep first and the cycles second. Meaning I was putting my main focus on going back to sleep and the cycles in the back of my head which kept me much more relaxed than usual. Of course by doing that, my mind kept drifting off but I would catch myself and continue the cycles. I ended up finishing about 3-4 decently long, albeit broken up due to my mind drifting off, cycles.
> ...



Congratulations! What you described -- prioritizing on falling asleep instead of the cycles, is the perfect way to do SSILD. Now that you got the hang of it you will see more successes down the road for sure!

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## Micael

Very interesting, the stats given on the success rates are also very exciting. I will start testing this method today.  :smiley:

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## Hitokage

Hmmm I think I used this technique before unknowingly. I just recognized the dream by strange feeling that everything I feel, hear, see ha a slightly different nature than normally.

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## szeew1985

I using SSILD and he's work  :smiley:

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## CherryBomb

This looks promising! I'll definitely try this one tonight.  :smiley:

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## rynkrt3

Was this method ever confirmed to be more than a placebo?  After scrolling through all of the pages of replies and trying this myself, it seems that it is more of a placebo than a reliable technique to use nightly.

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## fogelbise

I have been using it successfully for about 6 months. I usually only try on the weekends. I have heard some people say that is more the act of using wake back to bed than the technique but I always wake back to bed to go to the bathroom every night and that by itself is definitely not enough for me. Whether it is the fact that doing the cycles activates your mind rather than the specifics of the cycles, I don't know. I think the one where you focus on the back of your eyelids helped me get lucid when I noticed that I could see through my closed eyes. I am open to hearing arguments on that. Either way, I plan to continue using the cycles as my method of activating my mind before going back to sleep for now.

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## fogelbise

The challenge with this thread is that it is kind of buried in a sub thread that you don't normally see when scanning through the main forum sections. If you do a search (of all sections) for SSILD you will find 476 different threads. If you narrow down the results in the last month or newer there are still 30 different threads.

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## CosmicIron

> Was this method ever confirmed to be more than a placebo?  After scrolling through all of the pages of replies and trying this myself, it seems that it is more of a placebo than a reliable technique to use nightly.



A placebo is something that has no real medical value but works due to perhaps psychological reasons. By this definition, you can probably say that all lucid dreaming techniques are placebos. You probably meant whether or not SsILD can be used reliably in long term. I'd say, based on my own experience and observations, it is more effective in long term than many other well-known methods. It is not difficult to find report on this forum which show people having success with this technique over a long period. On my own forum, there are more than a dozen people, myself included, who use the technique every day and succeed every time. All of these are well documented. If that's placebo, then placebo so be it. LOL

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## Hitokage

Haha¨this technique worked for me the first day (hmm night) I read about it here  ::D:  
Well that was also the last time. But hard to say, I always use more techniques together so don't really know which helped me most to attain lucidity.

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## rynkrt3

> A placebo is something that has no real medical value but works due to perhaps psychological reasons. By this definition, you can probably say that all lucid dreaming techniques are placebos. You probably meant whether or not SsILD can be used reliably in long term. I'd say, based on my own experience and observations, it is more effective in long term than many other well-known methods. It is not difficult to find report on this forum which show people having success with this technique over a long period. On my own forum, there are more than a dozen people, myself included, who use the technique every day and succeed every time. All of these are well documented. If that's placebo, then placebo so be it. LOL



Yes, that is what I meant.  I do not doubt you or your technique, I just find it odd that no one on this site has really found long term success with it.  I just wander about people having success with it, but when that initial excitement phase wears off they start not having success.  This happened to me.  I found mild success a few times with this technique (a few shorts lucids and a few FA's.) but now no matter what I do I can't find success.

----------


## CosmicIron

> Yes, that is what I meant.  I do not doubt you or your technique, I just find it odd that no one on this site has really found long term success with it.  I just wander about people having success with it, but when that initial excitement phase wears off they start not having success.  This happened to me.  I found mild success a few times with this technique (a few shorts lucids and a few FA's.) but now no matter what I do I can't find success.



Such evidence are not difficult to find on this site alone. There is a thread that people record their results over a 30-day period and you can see some amazing statistics there, for example. To get sustained success with a technique one needs to not only practice but also analyze. This applies to every known techniques, not just Ssild.

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## fogelbise

Rynkrt3, I don't know if you missed my earlier post, but I've been using it for 6 months successfully. I usually only try on the weekends because I want to go straight back to sleep after my nightly getting up for the bathroom on work nights. I was off today and tried and succeeded last night but did fail Friday and Saturday night...I think I went to bed too late those nights. I know the OP doesn't suggest it, but maybe if it is no longer working for you try tweaking it assuming you went back over the steps and we're following them and it stopped being effective for you. have you tried a shorter or a longer WBTB before trying the cycles? For me, to keep from waking up too much I tweaked it to where I basically did the three cycles together after doing the first/shorter ones separately (thanks to the tip from PennyRoyal!).    :smiley:

----------


## Bobblehat

> For me, to keep from waking up too much I tweaked it to where I basically did the three cycles together after doing the first/shorter ones separately



Not quite sure what you mean by that, Foggy. Can you explain?

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## fogelbise

> Not quite sure what you mean by that, Foggy. Can you explain?



you know how there is a quick set of cycles and then a longer set of cycles? The longer set of cycles I actually do the eye, hearing and feeling one in the same breath over and over again for a few minutes or more. I do focus on the three cycles separately but they more flow together than being done 4-6 cycles of the eyes one before going to the sound/hearing one.

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## MrOMGWTF

> Was this method ever confirmed to be more than a placebo?  After scrolling through all of the pages of replies and trying this myself, it seems that it is more of a placebo than a reliable technique to use nightly.



Definitely not placebo from my experience with this technique.

----------


## yost

Link is broken

----------


## tofur

so does anyone else kind of question how much of the cycles they are actually getting in?  like I know that I get up, go to the bathroom, and lay down and do the cycles, but my memory of the entire waking period is very hazy.  Can you guys remember exactly how many cycles you did, like is your memory clear in the morning?  

I'm thinking if my memory of doing it is so bad then maybe I'm actually half asleep the whole time, lol.

----------


## CHiLLEN

Interesting technique. Funny enough I had a lucid this morning. I tested this out this morning but didn't really do the right amount of cycles. Think I just did like 1 cycle and went back to sleep. Marked it down as a DILD but SSILD could have possibly made me more aware in my dreams, cause I was semi-aware in another way, and this rarely happens.

May have to experiment with this technique.

----------


## CherryBomb

Just wondering if this technique is good for recall? I only remember one vivid dream a night and I'm not sure if that's enough for lding yet, and do I have to get into habit of doing rcs again? At the moment I'm tired of doing rcs lol

----------


## fogelbise

> Can you guys remember exactly how many cycles you did, like is your memory clear in the morning?  
> 
> I'm thinking if my memory of doing it is so bad then maybe I'm actually half asleep the whole time, lol.



I think the OP has been very busy lately so I will try to help with these questions.

You never know...you could have been half asleep or all the way asleep. If I am too sleepy my memory of how the cycles went is a little hazy the next morning. So, the OP says that you don't want to count. Even though you don't remember how many, can you remember if you actually did at least some of both the short and the long sets of all 3 of the cycle types(sight/hearing/touch)?





> Just wondering if this technique is good for recall? I only remember one vivid dream a night and I'm not sure if that's enough for lding yet, and do I have to get into habit of doing rcs again? At the moment I'm tired of doing rcs lol



Maybe the OP can better answer. My opinion is that it will only help you recall in as much as it can help you to have LDs and it is hard to forget most LDs. And this technique has helped me to have most of my LDs! I think it is beneficial to also use a separate recall technique(s). If you are tired of doing reality checks, maybe try doing them differently or take a break...how do you RC?

----------


## Denholm

Quite a few people in this thread have said that SSILD seems to improve their dream recall. 

After several months of not practicing any LD techniques, I'll now be using SSILD a lot more. Used it last night after only about 3 hours of sleep (I know that more sleep is better but I awoke naturally and thought 'why not?'). I did about 5 fast cycles, but then fell asleep before doing any slow ones. Later in the night, I became lucid but immediately started to lose the dream. I started rubbing my palms together straight away despite having completely lost the visual aspect of the dream. I was sure that I'd woken up and was laying in bed with my eyes closed, but I kept rubbing my palms anyway just in case. I then had a false awakening (in a bizarre location that was not my bedroom), but by this point I had forgotten I was dreaming and continued with a non-LD.

Will try again tonight unless something prevents me from doing so!

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on the success Denholm! The OP did say that some people get a lot of FAs from this technique...if we can catch them, we can have more LDs! I have also had success with SSILD even if I don't finish the cycles.

----------


## CanisLucidus

> It is not difficult to find report on this forum which show people having success with this technique over a long period. On my own forum, there are more than a dozen people, myself included, who use the technique every day and succeed every time. All of these are well documented. If that's placebo, then placebo so be it. LOL



This leads me to a bit of an "advanced SSILD" question.

I've had a good number of lucid dreams via SSILD (56, according to my Dream Journal tags), so I am definitely a person that had success with this technique over a long period.  This tech _works_.

In spite of all that success, I can't help but be curious what you and the other SSILD practitioners with a 100% success rate do to get _perfect_ results.  One great thing about the technique is that it's so straightforward that it's fairly easy to instruct someone how to do it.

But beyond those basic steps... in your estimation, is there anything that you and the other 100%ers do differently from those of us who "only" get good but not perfect results?

----------


## FryingMan

> This leads me to a bit of an "advanced SSILD" question.
> 
> I've had a good number of lucid dreams via SSILD (56, according to my Dream Journal tags), so I am definitely a person that had success with this technique over a long period.  This tech _works_.
> 
> In spite of all that success, I can't help but be curious what you and the other SSILD practitioners with a 100% success rate do to get _perfect_ results.  One great thing about the technique is that it's so straightforward that it's fairly easy to instruct someone how to do it.
> 
> But beyond those basic steps... in your estimation, is there anything that you and the other 100%ers do differently from those of us who "only" get good but not perfect results?



My question is (which should be asked about any technique), is what is the users frequency of LDing *without* it, using MILD or WILD?   What is their LD background?   How many LDs have they had before SSILD?   What are the statistics of wannabe LDers using SSILD to get their first LD?   For these, how long did they "study" LD, dream journal, etc?    Once LD practitioners get experienced enough (in any method), just about any method seems to work.

What I'd really like to see is data about which techniques take LDers from X% to Y% for various values of X and Y, especially including getting the first LD.    From what I've seen, CI says that first timers can take months, which doesn't really indicate any difference from DILD: it's the time spent doing RCs, thinking about LDs, etc. that probably really does it.   But what do I know, I haven't had any LDs yet.   But I'm getting close I hope!

----------


## fogelbise

> My question is (which should be asked about any technique), is what is the users frequency of LDing *without* it



I have been using SSILD(with WBTB as intended) since I returned to LDing in February and felt like a beginner...starting all over again 30 or so years later. I still do fundamentals, DJ, RCs, RRCs and feel they are very important, but my "frequency of LDing *without* it"(SSILD) is low, for better or worse. I have been using DEILD on occasion...but again it is usually after first doing SSILD. I am just one person though. A survey would be nice.

I also would like to hear from the OP CosmicIron regarding CanisLucidus' question 2 posts back. I love the technique and find the success rate very high but would love to learn how to get LDs 100% of the time that I try.

----------


## CosmicIron

> This leads me to a bit of an "advanced SSILD" question.
> 
> I've had a good number of lucid dreams via SSILD (56, according to my Dream Journal tags), so I am definitely a person that had success with this technique over a long period.  This tech _works_.
> 
> In spite of all that success, I can't help but be curious what you and the other SSILD practitioners with a 100% success rate do to get _perfect_ results.  One great thing about the technique is that it's so straightforward that it's fairly easy to instruct someone how to do it.
> 
> But beyond those basic steps... in your estimation, is there anything that you and the other 100%ers do differently from those of us who "only" get good but not perfect results?



Sorry for the late reply... To get 100% success rate, we need to learn to actively shift into the dream during a special trance state often induced by SSILD. During this state, we walk a very fine line between waking and sleeping. It all depends on where you place your focus -- if you think you are awake, then you will be moving your physical body immediately and the transition from the trance to full waking state is totally seamless. On the other hand, if you move your focus away from the physical body then you will immediately be in the dream state, again in a completely seamless fashion. A easier way to do this is to relax your head, allow it to sink into you pillow, then try to move your hand with only the slightest mental effort. Use it to pinch your nose to perform a nose plug RC in one smooth movement. If the RC succeeds, then simply maintain the same level of focus and roll out of the bed. This special trance state can be had spontaneously, but most often occurs after performing the SSILD cycles. It is not the same as FA because if you are not careful you will indeed move your physical body and there is no "waking" process associated with it. Utilizing this technique you can achieve almost guaranteed success. After performing SSILD cycles you will have many subsequent awakenings. Some of those are FAs, and many are this type of trance states. Normally people would consider them failed attempts of SSILD, but by using the above technique you can turn them into perfect launching platforms. Sometimes you can succeed even after you have moved your physical body upon waking up. That's how powerful it is. It's definitely not DEILD.  :smiley:  I hope this helps! Happy dreaming!

----------


## VagalTone

> Sorry for the late reply... To get 100% success rate, we need to learn to actively shift into the dream during a special trance state often induced by SSILD. During this state, we walk a very fine line between waking and sleeping. It all depends on where you place your focus -- if you think you are awake, then you will be moving your physical body immediately and the transition from the trance to full waking state is totally seamless. On the other hand, if you move your focus away from the physical body then you will immediately be in the dream state, again in a completely seamless fashion. A easier way to do this is to relax your head, allow it to sink into you pillow, then try to move your hand with only the slightest mental effort. Use it to pinch your nose to perform a nose plug RC in one smooth movement. If the RC succeeds, then simply maintain the same level of focus and roll out of the bed. This special trance state can be had spontaneously, but most often occurs after performing the SSILD cycles. It is not the same as FA because if you are not careful you will indeed move your physical body and there is no "waking" process associated with it. Utilizing this technique you can achieve almost guaranteed success. After performing SSILD cycles you will have many subsequent awakenings. Some of those are FAs, and many are this type of trance states. Normally people would consider them failed attempts of SSILD, but by using the above technique you can turn them into perfect launching platforms. Sometimes you can succeed even after you have moved your physical body upon waking up. That's how powerful it is. It's definitely not DEILD.  I hope this helps! Happy dreaming!



So true ! This trance must be recognized which seems to be easier after SSILD and WILD attempts, or after a body scan meditation. The problem of moving the body is usually not a problem if i do one of those techniques. It seems like i notice much better my awakenings.  And then, it's time to get out of bed ! That´s how i get most of my lucids ( OBE´s ). 

Not sure it is not a DEILD as i get this trance state if i interrupt my REM with a gentle alarm ( alarm-DEILD )

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## CanisLucidus

> Sorry for the late reply... To get 100% success rate, we need to learn to actively shift into the dream during a special trance state often induced by SSILD. During this state, we walk a very fine line between waking and sleeping. It all depends on where you place your focus -- if you think you are awake, then you will be moving your physical body immediately and the transition from the trance to full waking state is totally seamless. On the other hand, if you move your focus away from the physical body then you will immediately be in the dream state, again in a completely seamless fashion. A easier way to do this is to relax your head, allow it to sink into you pillow, then try to move your hand with only the slightest mental effort. Use it to pinch your nose to perform a nose plug RC in one smooth movement. If the RC succeeds, then simply maintain the same level of focus and roll out of the bed. This special trance state can be had spontaneously, but most often occurs after performing the SSILD cycles. It is not the same as FA because if you are not careful you will indeed move your physical body and there is no "waking" process associated with it. Utilizing this technique you can achieve almost guaranteed success. After performing SSILD cycles you will have many subsequent awakenings. Some of those are FAs, and many are this type of trance states. Normally people would consider them failed attempts of SSILD, but by using the above technique you can turn them into perfect launching platforms. Sometimes you can succeed even after you have moved your physical body upon waking up. That's how powerful it is. It's definitely not DEILD.  I hope this helps! Happy dreaming!



Great explanation, CosmicIron, thank you!

I have used a technique very much like this when intentionally WILDing, but I've never used it in the in-between phases of SSILD.  When I've managed it, it's always resulted in an OBE-style lucid dream.  I'm excited to learn that by combining it with SSILD I may get even more chances to use it.

From what I recall, the main trick was to never engage the muscles in any way but rather to treat the nose pinch and/or roll-out as something we _will_ to happen, like an act of dream control rather than physically doing something.

Very exciting stuff, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it so well.  It also once again has me pondering what the mechanism behind SSILD might be.  This seems to argue that a big part of it might be reducing the latency between the waking state and dreaming (and likely REM.)

Or perhaps it's the other way around, and that the act of SSILD increases your awareness, allowing you to keep a great deal more of your conscious mind active after the transition into the dreaming state.  This would explain why it raises the odds of both DILDs and WILDs.  And if it keeps you aware of your surroundings for a longer period of time as you drift to sleep, that could also explain the increased incidence of false awakenings.

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## EmptyBucket

^^ When you guys mention moving your hand for an RC, do you mean to visualize yourself doing an rc, or actually physically doing an rc(which I guess is counter-productive)

And do these after the SSILD cycles, or in between?

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## CanisLucidus

> ^^ When you guys mention moving your hand for an RC, do you mean to visualize yourself doing an rc, or actually physically doing an rc(which I guess is counter-productive)



I'll let Cosmic Iron speak for himself on the second part of the question, but as for the technique itself, yes, it's a lot like visualization.  If you've ever used dream control to make something happen without actually "moving", then IMO you have the right idea.

It's like you cause the RC via visualization, yet it's still very much like _experiencing_ it rather than simply imagining it.

It's a bit strange, so I hope that the explanation helps.  Again, I've only used this for WILD so far, and I'm assuming that it's pretty much the same in the SSILD trance.

----------


## rynkrt3

Are there ways to tell if we are in this phase that cosmic speaks of, or is it more of a you just have to guess?  After preforming SSILD cycles for a while I do feel closer to sleep but I dont feel as if im in a certain transition phase.

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## CosmicIron

> Are there ways to tell if we are in this phase that cosmic speaks of, or is it more of a you just have to guess?  After preforming SSILD cycles for a while I do feel closer to sleep but I dont feel as if im in a certain transition phase.



Basically you will be in this phase during any of the subsequent awakenings after performing SSILD. If you spend a long time *cooking* the cycles then chances are you will succeed during the very first awakening. Otherwise you can perform the cycles one more time and be in the phase upon waking up again.

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## CosmicIron

> I'll let Cosmic Iron speak for himself on the second part of the question, but as for the technique itself, yes, it's a lot like visualization.  If you've ever used dream control to make something happen without actually "moving", then IMO you have the right idea.
> 
> It's like you cause the RC via visualization, yet it's still very much like _experiencing_ it rather than simply imagining it.
> 
> It's a bit strange, so I hope that the explanation helps.  Again, I've only used this for WILD so far, and I'm assuming that it's pretty much the same in the SSILD trance.



That's exactly how it works. Though later with more experience, one should be able to just "know" how to shift the focus between the physical and dream bodies without the visualization part.

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## CosmicIron

> ^^ When you guys mention moving your hand for an RC, do you mean to visualize yourself doing an rc, or actually physically doing an rc(which I guess is counter-productive)
> 
> And do these after the SSILD cycles, or in between?



Either way is fine, although visualization is the safer approach as it allows you to take advantage of even the lightest trance state. You can do this right after the SSILD cycles and that may give you a authentic WILD experience. For easier and more reliable result you will want to do it upon subsequent awakenings resulted from the SSILD exercise.

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## fogelbise

Thank you CanisLucidus for starting this great discussion and CosmicIron for your answers!





> Are there ways to tell if we are in this phase that cosmic speaks of, or is it more of a you just have to guess?  After preforming SSILD cycles for a while I do feel closer to sleep but I dont feel as if im in a certain transition phase.



When I was first learning this technique I felt like I was having trouble going back to sleep, but now I am thinking that many of those times I was already in this trance/phase without realizing it. Being a newbie to the technique I think I was not knowing how to recognize the feeling. It is still tricky...An example recently was that I thought I was still trying to go back to sleep and decided to turn on my side to go to sleep quicker had an LD but when I had a little mini-awakening after the LD and I knew I was awake, I noticed I was still on my back. I had "turned over to my side" with my dream body only! As a beginner I got mostly spontaneous DILDs from SSILD and still do but I am starting to recognize the dream more intuitively and sometimes logically creating more opportunities to LD. Early on I was also wondering why I was not getting these FAs that CosmicIron said were common with the technique. As my recall and experience improved, I started to remember some FAs from time to time. I began to think I was missing most of them and started doing RCs anytime I get up from bed. I am now starting to recognize more FAs and they were probably happening all along.

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## tofur

cosmic,

do you clearly remember the period in which you get up and do the cycles in the morning once your awake for the day?  I ask because my memory seems hazy even though I get up and go to the bathroom and then do cycles.  I'm never sure exactly how many of them I did, or if I even made it past the first phase of them.  I feel like I did, but I also am feeling like I'm not so sure about that.  

Should I stay up longer or is this common?

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## CosmicIron

> cosmic,
> 
> do you clearly remember the period in which you get up and do the cycles in the morning once your awake for the day?  I ask because my memory seems hazy even though I get up and go to the bathroom and then do cycles.  I'm never sure exactly how many of them I did, or if I even made it past the first phase of them.  I feel like I did, but I also am feeling like I'm not so sure about that.  
> 
> Should I stay up longer or is this common?



Personally, the act of getting up and returning to bed to do SSILD is always based on conscious decision. Thus I can remember clearly the process as well as majority of the dream initializations. Sometimes I get lazy and do not want to get up. SSILD done this way usually have lower success rate, and it is not uncommon for me to fall asleep right away and remember very little of it. So yes I definitely recommend you to stay awake a little longer, or get more sleep before attempting the exercise.

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## Denholm

I attempted SSILD three more times since the time I described above when it produced a lucid dream. No more LDs, but on the latest attempt I started getting the kind of bizarre physical sensations that I used to get when I attempted WILD. Specifically, I was laying on my side and it felt like I was rotating onto my stomach while at the same time ALSO rotating onto my back. It felt like I had two extra bodies that were spitting away from my actual body. I relaxed into it and tried to let it develop into something else, but nothing happened. Will hopefully try again tonight!

Also, CosmicIron I noticed that the page where you have the official tutorial went down for a little while there. Glad to see it's back up!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

I have had two DILDs now, the second one was just last night.   Before bed last night, I was reading through my journal and noted that I had done some SSILD cycles combined with MILD before my first DILD.    Last night, I really wanted a LD, and I did both MILD and SSILD, and got DILD #2.   DILD #1 felt more like a prospective memory target getting hit and I just said to myself "I'm dreaming" reflexively with no critical faculty awakening (the key phrase in my MILD mantra), so I thought that was a pure MILD LD.    However, this second DILD had a wakening of my critical faculty, I recognized a strange situation (I was unable to pick up a bunch of cards I'd dropped on the floor), and thought, "oh, this is one of those situations where I should check to see if I'm *dreaming*" and instantly at the word dreaming became lucid.

So, I don't know.   Not very scientific, I know, since I'm combining a bunch of methods (including lucid aids: lecithin, apple juice).   I had also done a lot of prospective memory targets throughout the day.    So also, strong desire mixed in with a day thinking a lot about LDing.

But until I get my frequency up really high (multiple per week), I'll keep the MILD + SSILD combo, and then start playing with it to see what makes the most difference.   But thanks for this technique, I do feel that it probably had an impact on both LDs.

----------


## harries

Alright so far iv tried this 4 times and have had a lucid twice. ON both successful attempts, when i tried SSILD, i did it laying on my back, (i always sleep on my side). So when im trying to go through the cycle my body just wants to go to sleep, and thus on the last cycle i start getting a excitement feeling in my chest (Because i knows im going to roll over and sleep). So i would suggest doing this in a position which you don't normally sleep in. Ill post my results after 10 more attempts.

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## VagalTone

> Alright so far iv tried this 4 times and have had a lucid twice. ON both successful attempts, when i tried SSILD, i did it laying on my back, (i always sleep on my side). So when im trying to go through the cycle my body just wants to go to sleep, and thus on the last cycle i start getting a excitement feeling in my chest (Because i knows im going to roll over and sleep). *So i would suggest doing this in a position which you don't normally sleep* in. Ill post my results after 10 more attempts.



I think holding the elbow upright while lying on your side is also a good alternative to avoid falling asleep.

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## Shantak

> Alright so far iv tried this 4 times and have had a lucid twice. ON both successful attempts, when i tried SSILD, i did it laying on my back, (i always sleep on my side). So when im trying to go through the cycle my body just wants to go to sleep, and thus on the last cycle i start getting a excitement feeling in my chest (Because i knows im going to roll over and sleep). So i would suggest doing this in a position which you don't normally sleep in. Ill post my results after 10 more attempts.



I'm going to have to try this, I almost always fall back asleep too quick to perform SSILD, but I can only sleep in one position. I daren't stay awake for too long or I can't go back to sleep (I don't have a happy medium, it's one extreme or the other). Performing it in one position and then rolling over sounds good, I didn't know if it was allowed or not, guess I can only try.

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## Denholm

Something I'm considering doing is preparing half a page or so of text, and then when I wake up to perform SSILD, I'll put the light on and read over this sheet. It'll basically just have some of my goals and intentions etc on it, as well as things like reminders to watch out for false awakenings etc. I think this may help me to become just alert enought to finish SSILD without falling asleep prematurely, and has the added benefit of reaffirming goals for when I become lucid.





> Performing it in one position and then rolling over sounds good, I didn't know if it was allowed or not, guess I can only try.



I believe this is encouraged - step three of the official tutuorial says this:

"Return to bed and lie down in a comfortable position, preferably different from the one you usually use. This is to prevent you from falling into sleep prematurely"

å®å®ã®é: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD) Official Tutorial

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## CosmicIron

> Something I'm considering doing is preparing half a page or so of text, and then when I wake up to perform SSILD, I'll put the light on and read over this sheet. It'll basically just have some of my goals and intentions etc on it, as well as things like reminders to watch out for false awakenings etc. I think this may help me to become just alert enought to finish SSILD without falling asleep prematurely, and has the added benefit of reaffirming goals for when I become lucid.



I think thats a good idea!

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## Guitar48300

I've been trying SSILD for months and have maybe only gotten 3 total lucid dreams. I feel like it's because I cant seem to get myself to do the same general number of cycles every night. Sometimes I'll do it, but then some nights I'll only successfully do the cycle only once. Is this affecting my SSILD success?

----------


## CosmicIron

> I've been trying SSILD for months and have maybe only gotten 3 total lucid dreams. I feel like it's because I cant seem to get myself to do the same general number of cycles every night. Sometimes I'll do it, but then some nights I'll only successfully do the cycle only once. Is this affecting my SSILD success?



I think so. Unless you can learn to take advantage of the intermediate state, as described in the last few posts, upon waking up from SSILD, you really need to wake up sufficiently prior to SSILD in order to get it to work reliably. Of course, you don't want to wake up too much either since you may not be able to fall back to sleep. The key is to experiment to find the best balance.

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## Guitar48300

Ok I've pretty much figured out a way to do about the same number of cycles each night. But now I'm wondering how long do the cycle effects last if I did them right? Meaning how quick do I need to fall asleep in order for it to work? It usually takes me 30 minutes to fall back asleep when I get up in the middle of the night

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## Aremus

Hello,

I'm new in this forum, and wanted to write my experience.
I've been trying for this week the SSILD technique with no luck.

I've been waking up after the 4 hours of sleep, the first day wasn't very sleepy as the next days. That day i tried the cycles. Started to feel very relaxed, then when i finished the cycles, it took me several times to sleep. Didn't get any LD.

The next days has been very different. For example today. I woke up after 4 sleep hours, then got up for 5 minutes, but felt very sleepy. But better than the days before. So i got back to bed to start the cycles. It started well, but this has been happening a lot. I do the cycles, when i start with the sight, i start to drift away in my mind, then when i realize i'm drifting away, i try to repeat the cycle or going to the next one, i start but then drift away again. But i don't fall asleep. Today i did a quick ones because of this issue, then do the long ones, but didn't feel relaxed, so i let my self sleep with no result. 

Any suggestion on what could i do to accomplish this?
Thanks in advance!

----------


## CosmicIron

> Hello,
> 
> I'm new in this forum, and wanted to write my experience.
> I've been trying for this week the SSILD technique with no luck.
> 
> I've been waking up after the 4 hours of sleep, the first day wasn't very sleepy as the next days. That day i tried the cycles. Started to feel very relaxed, then when i finished the cycles, it took me several times to sleep. Didn't get any LD.
> 
> The next days has been very different. For example today. I woke up after 4 sleep hours, then got up for 5 minutes, but felt very sleepy. But better than the days before. So i got back to bed to start the cycles. It started well, but this has been happening a lot. I do the cycles, when i start with the sight, i start to drift away in my mind, then when i realize i'm drifting away, i try to repeat the cycle or going to the next one, i start but then drift away again. But i don't fall asleep. Today i did a quick ones because of this issue, then do the long ones, but didn't feel relaxed, so i let my self sleep with no result. 
> 
> ...



The second try sounds like you were doing the technique correctly and getting the desired results. When you begin to drift in and out, chances are you are already in a trance state and very close to being in a dream. You could be already in an FA too! I suggest you do a couple more cycles with longer durations for each step and see if you experience any strange sensations. If nothing occurs, then simply do an RC, stop, and fall back to sleep quickly.

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## Aremus

> The second try sounds like you were doing the technique correctly and getting the desired results. When you begin to drift in and out, chances are you are already in a trance state and very close to being in a dream. You could be already in an FA too! I suggest you do a couple more cycles with longer durations for each step and see if you experience any strange sensations. If nothing occurs, then simply do an RC, stop, and fall back to sleep quickly.



Perfect! Thank you for the quick reply.
I will try this the next days, and let you know how it goes.

Thanks for this technique  ::D: !

----------


## Nailler

> We do not know why exactly SSILD works. One user pointed out that the method shares some resemblance with the self-hypnosis method introduced by Betty Erickson, wife of the late Dr. Milton H. Erickson. Another theory is that by repeated stimulation of the various senses in a trance-like state, we incubate our mind and body into the right condition suited for entering a DILD, WILD, or OBE.



Looks to me like SSILD is a very clever exercise for turning up awareness at a time when it would normally be shutting down. When the timing is right, the increased awareness as the body falls asleep, serves as a natural bridge to a successful DILD or WILD. 

If that is the way it works, the trick would be getting the timing right.

And wouldn't increased awareness be the opposite of a hypnotic or trance state?

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## StephL

I will try this tonight!
 :smiley:

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## Nailler

Thought to give SSILD a go this afternoon, so I set the recliner to nap position and went at it. Cycled through maybe a dozen times with nothing happening. Then I'm interrupted when my dog starts going bonkers, barking at the front door. I assume it's the UPS guy, so I get up and go to the door. I open the door to find a giant black bear eating from a bowl of dog food somebody left on the porch. The bear looks at me and growls. I think, "oh shite"!  I try to close the door, but I'm too late. The bear lunges at me... at which time I wake up in the recliner. Whew!

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## StephL

I wanted to - and did some half-hearted efforts - but grumpiness took me away from actual LD motivation - and I just decided to sleep instead..

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## EmptyBucket

For whatever reason, lately when I try this technique I just can't fall back asleep

Even if I do it when very tired, maybe I need a good wake back to bed

----------


## FryingMan

> For whatever reason, lately when I try this technique I just can't fall back asleep
> 
> Even if I do it when very tired, maybe I need a good wake back to bed



I'm exactly the same.    Night-time  techniques tend to wake me up too much and I can't sleep for hours until I'm exhausted.
I've recently started experimenting with a "fusion" of SSILD and relaxation.    This requires that you be familiar enough with your going to sleep process to judge whether you're close or far from sleep.

I'll first check to see if I have enough drowsiness available for sleep.  If I don't, I do pure relaxation, trying to go "deeper" and "farther", release all tension from the body and mind.

If I feel like I'm sinking deeper, I'll do a cycle, a quick one at first.
Then I'll check my drowsiness again with a relaxing breath.   If I feel too awake, I'll stop SSILD and only do relaxation until I build up more drowsiness (or fall asleep).

Then I'll do another cycle, keeping careful tabs on alertness.
In this way I've managed to do SSILD a few times now and still was able to fall asleep.

Last night I tried not an alternating mix like the above, but trying to do them simultaneously: SSILD cycles, and relaxation at the same time.   Basically this means not focusing hard on the senses, being aware of them but "softly.", and sinking "deeper" on each breath.

I think it worked.   I don't remember if I stopped SSILD before sleep, or I went to sleep in the middle of a cycle, which is precisely the goal I was after!    (If I did stop before sleep it was only a short while).

I also had a short LD in the following sleep cycle.

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## MagMisanthrope

I've been attempting SSILD recently because of someone's suggestion and it seems pretty cool.  I've only tried it for two nights so far and even though I haven't had any lucid dreams last night I remembered a lot of dreams much more vividly than usual.  One issue I have though is that I'm not very good at falling asleep quickly.  Does anyone know how much of a negative impact this has on the effectiveness of the method?  Also is it possible to do too many cycles?

Edit. 
I was also wondering if opening my eyes was fine during the cycles for a little bit.

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## fogelbise

> I've been attempting SSILD recently because of someone's suggestion and it seems pretty cool.  I've only tried it for two nights so far and even though I haven't had any lucid dreams last night I remembered a lot of dreams much more vividly than usual.  One issue I have though is that I'm not very good at falling asleep quickly.  Does anyone know how much of a negative impact this has on the effectiveness of the method?  Also is it possible to do too many cycles?
> 
> Edit. 
> I was also wondering if opening my eyes was fine during the cycles for a little bit.



It seems like the longer it takes me to get to sleep, the more likely it is that I will have a DILD or WILD from SSILD. If you find yourself trying to sleep for an hour or more, verify that you are awake with a motionless reality check (like trying to float) since false awakenings are very common with SSILD. As far as too many cycles, I would say never "worry" that your are doing too many but try to follow the guidelines as a beginner. I have continued or resumed SSILD cycles longer than recommended on occasion and it seems like a similar rate of success though I have no real statistics. Opening the eyes could be treated like scratching or moving, just go back to the beginning of the cycle that you were in or if you were almost done, maybe start over or go ahead and focus on getting to sleep...go with your gut feeling.

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## crypticcello

This method was definitely effective for me. At a certain point my mind started to drift off when I would focus on a sensation, and I would find myself momentarily in a lower stage dream. First I felt myself driving, though I could hardly see where. Then I was running through the dark when suddenly I found myself standing in a lounge-like room fully lucid. Unfortunately the dream only lasted what felt to be twenty seconds.

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## VagalTone

> It seems like the longer it takes me to get to sleep, the more likely it is that I will have a DILD or WILD from SSILD.



Yup, me also. If i stay long enough ( at least 2 hours  ::shock::  ) on SSILD/WILD it's pretty much guaranteed lucidity.

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## rynkrt3

Hey everyone, quick question.  I am back into LD'ing.  I am currently sticking with MILD until it works fairly regularly.  I have found that with me I get most lucids after I have woken up in the middle of the night then get my mind back on lucid dreaming again for a bit.  I have had success with WBTB and MILD in the past.  Waking up, writing my dream down, going over it then thinking about my goal for my next LD really gets decent results.  I think this is why SSILD would work well for me, getting up after some sleep, write down any dreams I can remember then going for a SSILD attempt.  I just have a slight problem.  I fall asleep EXTEREMELY fast.  I have tried staying up for longer but then I find I can't get back to sleep for another 45 minutes or so.  When I attempt SSILD I can do maybe 1 - 2 cycles and I'm either asleep or I find myself drifting and can't keep going.  Any advice would be appreciated  :smiley:

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## VagalTone

> Hey everyone, quick question.  I am back into LD'ing.  I am currently sticking with MILD until it works fairly regularly.  I have found that with me I get most lucids after I have woken up in the middle of the night then get my mind back on lucid dreaming again for a bit.  I have had success with WBTB and MILD in the past.  Waking up, writing my dream down, going over it then thinking about my goal for my next LD really gets decent results.  I think this is why SSILD would work well for me, getting up after some sleep, write down any dreams I can remember then going for a SSILD attempt.  I just have a slight problem.  I fall asleep EXTEREMELY fast.  I have tried staying up for longer but then I find I can't get back to sleep for another 45 minutes or so.  When I attempt SSILD I can do maybe 1 - 2 cycles and I'm either asleep or I find myself drifting and can't keep going.  Any advice would be appreciated



If you fall asleep too soon, try a little trick: hold your forearm in the air, with your elbow on the bed, making 90 degrees. Try to find a position in which you feel most comfortable. If you fall asleep completely, your forearm will drop and you will notice it.

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## FryingMan

If you fall asleep quickly, I'd recommend trying lots of DEILDs and WILDs.   Super combo strategy: always try for DEILD after waking up.  If after 2 minutes you don't make it back in, set intention for MILD, and try to fall asleep holding on to some awareness (WILD).   Should result in the most LDs....I'm going to be trying this approach but must be careful because there's a threshold level of alertness after which it takes me a while to get back to sleep...

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## rynkrt3

Does SSILD seem to only work consistently for some people?  I ask this because I read many contradicting post about this technique.  I myself do not doubt the technique works, I am just trying to gather information on the types of people it does work consistently for.  Some people say it's an amazing technique and works all the time, some say it doesn't work at all and call it a "placebo" crap.  Cosmic, what are your thoughts on this?  Have you found a certain characteristic in people that this works for?  I have tried this tech on and off since it came out and haven't found any success.  The cycles sure do get me to sleep quick though.

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## rynkrt3

Just did a proper SSILD attempt about 2 hours ago.  Had a really vivid FA.  That's the first FA I can remember in quite some time.   Hopefully I'll learn to catch these.

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## fogelbise

> Just did a proper SSILD attempt about 2 hours ago.  Had a really vivid FA.  That's the first FA I can remember in quite some time.   Hopefully I'll learn to catch these.



Not sure if/when CosmicIron will be back but your post before the above one had me thinking that it definitely may not be for everyone, but it sounds like you made some progress here in your last post.  :smiley:  I have done SSILD cycles (and later my variation on them) before most of my LDs...that doesn't prove or suggest that those LDs were only due to SSILD but I personally feel like it is an important part of my arsenal.

----------


## vuduchild

Hello.

This is my first post in the forum. Today was my 52nd day in my dream journal since I started my attemps in LD. I had a good LD in my day 13th day with WILD (but a little short) and another one really short. Since then, no more LD. 

I started trying SSILD 11 days ago, without any ressult. I have read all the post in the thread, but I don't know why I dont get any results. I have tried all your ideas and solutions.

Normally I go like this:
-I try to have dinner soon, at 8.00 or 9.00 (in Spain that's soon)
-I go to sleep 10.30 / 11.00
-I wbtb at 3.30 / 4.00  go to bathroom, walk al little bit  about (5 / 10 min)
-I do the cycles, fast cycles and later slow cycles. Sometimes I have dificulties for finish the 4th and sometimes I do 6 or more. But normally I try to stay at 4.
-I am pretty sure that I didnt have any FA.



Sometimes I fall asleep soon, but other times, after the cycles its difficult to sleep. I try to find a good balance for the time in the wbtb.
But I  think that I did it ok sometimes, and no ressults.

Normally I wander a lot and forget the technic and I have to start again the last cycle. I would say that I dont get any wierd sensations and I dont get any trance state.
On the other hand if I try normal WILD, I get all those weird feelings.

I will continue trying this techinic because I like it. But I dont know what I am failing at.

Thank you.

NOTE: I am sorry for my english

EDIT: I re-readed the tutorial and made a little attemp for a nap. I realised that when I focus on vision and hearing, I do it too strongly. Even if I think I am relaxed I make little bit of tension in the eyes muscles and muscles around ears. I have tried to relax completetly my faces muscles and I think thats going to be an important factor. But I find difficult to relax completely my eyes, I still make little movements, especially when I change from sense to another one.

¿any tip for the eyes?

----------


## fogelbise

> But I find difficult to relax completely my eyes, I still make little movements, especially when I change from sense to another one.
> 
> ¿any tip for the eyes?



Little movements of the eyes are fine if you don't become concerned about the little movements. If you become concerned about moving them that can throw you off course. Perhaps practice relaxing your eyes during the day in a seated or laying position...you can even do a few cycles to get the feel for it when you have your full mental faculties (during the middle of the night when they can be a little weak for most people, but that is when you need to do the actual cycles of course). Are you still actively working on LD fundamentals during the day? You may have been more active doing that early on when you had your success. That can help with your overall mindset going into these cycles and on into the dreams. By the way, my success rate seems to be higher when I have trouble going back to sleep (eventually getting back to sleep and either DILDing or WILDing). The success rate is lowest when I go to sleep too quickly not finishing the cycles but it has worked that way as well.

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## vuduchild

Hello. 

Thank you for your response. Actually, with this I realised that I have an eye relaxation problem. Even when I got to sleep and dont try LD. I think its because I spend a lot of time with the computer and that stresses my eyes. Only for closing the eyes I make effort. And some times if I try to relax the eyelids I open my eyes not wanting to.

But when i do the wbtb I find easier to relax my face and eyes. I think its a good thing to have discover this because now I find more relaxing all the SSILD cycles. And now I have new hopes for this technic. 

At the beginning when I started LD, I was much more motivated, but if you dont get good results regularly its difficult to maintain this motivation. Is for that I like this technic.

I will tell you if I get some good results.

Thank you.

----------


## vuduchild

Not good results so far. I will try in my natural sleep position. And maybe I take a rest, maybe I am a little bit obsessed.

One question: If I wake several times in the night, can I make SSILD every time?

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## skywatcher

I have not read this entire thread so forgive me if this has been asked before.  Has there been any discussion on the quality and length of the LDs produced by this method?  Reason I ask is, quite a few posts mention only very brief LDs.  Personally after trying this for 2 nights, I got an FA on the first night, and a very short low-level LD the second night.  I am just wondering if the LD quality and length is affected by this method and if so, can this be improved with a lot of practice.

Also, I read some people saying they could only use this method successfully a couple of times then it stopped working.  I'd love to hear reports from people who have been using this method for a while.

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## fogelbise

> One question: If I wake several times in the night, can I make SSILD every time?



It is better for any awakenings after ~4.5 hours of sleep and I believe the author suggests a different procedure for subsequent awakenings where you just imagine your head sinking back into the pillow (or body sinking into the bed)...but I have used it on more than one awakening.





> I have not read this entire thread so forgive me if this has been asked before.  Has there been any discussion on the quality and length of the LDs produced by this method?  Reason I ask is, quite a few posts mention only very brief LDs.  Personally after trying this for 2 nights, I got an FA on the first night, and a very short low-level LD the second night.  I am just wondering if the LD quality and length is affected by this method and if so, can this be improved with a lot of practice.
> 
> Also, I read some people saying they could only use this method successfully a couple of times then it stopped working.  I'd love to hear reports from people who have been using this method for a while.



I used SSILD during most of my successful LD attempts so it was used way more than a couple of times, but I think it was only one piece of the overall puzzle for me. It can bring on FAs but I don't think it shortens the length of your LDs as I find varying lengths and think that you just need a stabilizing technique if you are finding them too short...just one opinion though.

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## VagalTone

> Not good results so far. I will try in my natural sleep position. And maybe I take a rest, maybe I am a little bit obsessed.
> 
> One question: If I wake several times in the night, can I make SSILD every time?



I have posed that question and i think cosmiciron's answer was like « yes, most definitely» 





> I have not read this entire thread so forgive me if this has been asked before.  Has there been any discussion on the quality and length of the LDs produced by this method?  Reason I ask is, quite a few posts mention only very brief LDs.  Personally after trying this for 2 nights, I got an FA on the first night, and a very short low-level LD the second night.  I am just wondering if the LD quality and length is affected by this method and if so, can this be improved with a lot of practice.
> 
> Also, I read some people saying they could only use this method successfully a couple of times then it stopped working.  I'd love to hear reports from people who have been using this method for a while.



As folgelbise said, both quality and length are variable, not only with SSILD of course. After the problem of induction, it's the second one for most people. So it's only natural you are facing it  :smiley: 

As to the second question, i can only tell about my experience. It works regularly for me, but i only do SSILD with the purpose of WILDing, which is something that has a more linear learning curve

----------


## fogelbise

> After the problem of induction, it's the second one for most people.



Agreed  :smiley: 





> As to the second question, i can only tell about my experience. It works regularly for me, but i only do SSILD with the purpose of WILDing, which is something that has a more linear learning curve



Agreed, it can be different for WILDs. The first 50 or so times I used it for DILDs and then I started finding myself retaining awareness into the dream and getting some WILDs. I am not sure when I would have started trying WILDs without SSILD. I feel you still need strong day time practices in order to make the most of the technique. Wow, 34 pages of this thread...

----------


## skywatcher

Thanks VegalTone and fogelbise for your replies. I was surprised at the low quality and short length of my LD with this method so I was hoping it was not something intrinsic to this method.  In the past, my LDs were longer and I had much more control.  But, I am just getting back into LDing after a year of not trying so I suppose I just need to shake the dust off a bit and work on stabilizing the LDs.  I'm glad to hear you are having quality LDs with this method; it gives me hope for trying to use this method.

----------


## Milliecake

I've tested this method for a week now and thought I would post the results.

3 DILDs in three mornings out of seven.

The reason it's interesting for me is because I rarely have DILDs, maybe once every few years which peaks my interest in lucidity again. The last few months I have had the occasional DEILD but that's it. I tried to WILD pretty much since I joined this site, every night, but only managed a few times so gave up.

The lucids I had were very clear, but not hugely long, perhaps because I had been dreaming for some time. The last one I managed to boss my DC's around, which I didn't know was possible!

I'm really curious as to why this method works. I tend to use it with a vague mantra of look, listen, feel, otherwise I fall asleep too fast, but mantras never worked for me in the past.

I'll keep testing this in case this was a fluke, but so far so promising.

----------


## vuduchild

Might I be failing because the timing? I mean, I always get awake naturally during the night several times. Is it possible that it is better to interrupt a REM cycle with an alarm and later try the ssild?

----------


## VagalTone

> Might I be failing because the timing? I mean, I always get awake naturally during the night several times. Is it possible that it is better to interrupt a REM cycle with an alarm and later try the ssild?



I have always managed to do it after natural awakenings.
It should be fine if you use the recommended timing.

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## Bobblehat

> Also, I read some people saying they could only use this method successfully a couple of times then it stopped working.  I'd love to hear reports from people who have been using this method for a while.



I use it sporadically now. It's no miracle technique for me. About three LDs max from it, I'd say. It can increase my dream vividness and continuity but even that effect seems to have worn off a lot.

----------


## LFairweather

Ive tried this technique and the first night i tried, it worked (realised i was dreaming) so i will definitely pursue this technique further. However, since then ive struggled to find the balance between being too awake and consequently taking ages to fall asleep again, or being too sleepy, and struggling to do the cycles properly. What are your thoughts on this cosmic iron?

----------


## Elrond

Hello everyone, this is my first post here, although I have been reading the forum for several months now  :smiley: . 
I became interested in lucid dreaming about 8 months ago without much success. I tried different techniques, but until Two weeks ago I had only 5 LD, 1 min each. Two weeks ago I learned SSILD and since I had five additional LD and dream recall improved dramatically! (love you Cosmiciron!!). 
*Without a doubt I'm going to practice this technique.* 
One problem, I'm not sure its even related to the technique, my LD are very short, ten to fifteen seconds! It's so frustrating. I read the guides on the stabilization but still no improvment.
Do you think my problem is related to SSILD ( had much longer dreams when Dild)  ,I'd love to hear your opinions,
thanks.

----------


## AstralMango

> Hello everyone, this is my first post here, although I have been reading the forum for several months now . 
> I became interested in lucid dreaming about 8 months ago without much success. I tried different techniques, but until Two weeks ago I had only 5 LD, 1 min each. Two weeks ago I learned SSILD and since I had five additional LD and dream recall improved dramatically! (love you Cosmiciron!!). 
> *Without a doubt I'm going to practice this technique.* 
> One problem, I'm not sure its even related to the technique, my LD are very short, ten to fifteen seconds! It's so frustrating. I read the guides on the stabilization but still no improvment.
> Do you think my problem is related to SSILD ( had much longer dreams when Dild)  ,I'd love to hear your opinions,
> thanks.



SSILD is known (in my opinion) to give very short lucids. But if Cosmic keeps using this technique, there must be more to it. You could try to PM him, maybe?

Also, welcome to Dream Views!

----------


## Elrond

> SSILD is known (in my opinion) to give very short lucids. But if Cosmic keeps using this technique, there must be more to it. You could try to PM him, maybe?
> 
> Also, welcome to Dream Views!



thank's :wink2: 
sure hope ill be able to have much longer dreams with ssild, i love this technique.

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## fogelbise

> thank's
> sure hope ill be able to have much longer dreams with ssild, i love this technique.



Not sure if CosmicIron will be back. I have had long LDs (and many medium length LDs) the same night I used the technique. I think it just takes most people time and experience to increase their average LD time, regardless of the technique.





> Ive tried this technique and the first night i tried, it worked (realised i was dreaming) so i will definitely pursue this technique further. However, since then ive struggled to find the balance between being too awake and consequently taking ages to fall asleep again, or being too sleepy, and struggling to do the cycles properly. What are your thoughts on this cosmic iron?



That is something that takes trial and error (and struggle for some including me early on) to find that balance. The good news, and others have confirmed this, is that when it does take longer to get back to sleep, the odds of having an LD go up...assuming that you stay on track and don't get frustrated and assuming that you do get back to sleep of course.

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## AstralMango

> Not sure if CosmicIron will be back. I have had long LDs (and many medium length LDs) the same night I used the technique. I think it just takes most people time and experience to increase their average LD time, regardless of the technique.



Whoa, really? I thought it gave short lucids for some reason haha. So it's not the technique but it's the other factors, like stabilisation and awareness?

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## LFairweather

Just had a false awakening after trying this last night.... I love this technique because it always produces some sort of result for me.
I dont usually have any false awakenings so that was a new experience for me.

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## fogelbise

> Whoa, really? I thought it gave short lucids for some reason haha. So it's not the technique but it's the other factors, like stabilisation and awareness?



Sorry, I just saw your post AstralMango...yes, that is definitely what I think. Of course if you have that idea already lodged in your subconscious then you might be better off using other methods that you find successful. Good luck!  :smiley: 





> Just had a false awakening after trying this last night.... I love this technique because it always produces some sort of result for me.
> I dont usually have any false awakenings so that was a new experience for me.



Nice, and with practice, you can catch the false awakenings, you can turn them into lucid dreams!  :smiley:

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## Bobblehat

I've always wondered if, when it takes you ages to get back to sleep after SSILD, it's the WBTB that's led to success rather than SSILD technique. 





> thank's



What the bloody hell has that word got an apostrophe on it for?

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## tofur

> I've always wondered if, when it takes you ages to get back to sleep after SSILD, it's the WBTB that's led to success rather than SSILD technique. 
> 
> 
> 
> What the bloody hell has that word got an apostrophe on it for?



maybe, although that doesn't explain the results when you fall asleep really quickly.

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## Bobblehat

> maybe, although that doesn't explain the results when you fall asleep really quickly.



Yes, I know. That's a different matter.

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## FryingMan

There are some that pose that SSILD is in fact just WBTB.   WBTB can give results too, falling back to sleep quickly.    The power of intention/expectation perhaps, or maybe there really is something to it.   I know that SSILD for me unless I'm really careful to remain relaxed results in me being very very wide awake.   So that says something about its WBTB efficacy.   An activated brain is a brain that is way more likely to be lucid when dreaming, assuming you can sleep.

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## satsujin

hi folks,
been trying the SSILD technique for  less than a week now with minor success. The first night I had my False Awakening and 2 days after I had a dream where I was in a dream that I realized I was dreaming. I mean, I was dreaming that I was dreaming. Weird I know and lasted only a few seconds but maybe that was semi-lucid. Nothing since then. I've only read upto page 27 of this thread but I would like to know if I am doing SSILD right. 

When I do the fast cycle steps, I just zoom through them without attempting to drift off. When I do the slow cycle steps I focus on my senses initially and then LET my mind drift off. I mean I stop focusing on the senses and let my mind get clear. Is that ok? I've noticed when I keep focusing on the senses, I generally dont drift off since I'm paying attention to something and my mind is occupied. 

I've also noticed that even with that method I take about 2 mins to drift in a step even though CosmicIron specifies only a minimum of 30 secs. I realize its only a min but i'm not sure if 2mins is too long.

Thanks for any help....

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## AstralMango

Hey, satsujin. For the slow cycles, I would probably attempt to do it "drifting off". You don't have to, but I think the purpose of the slow cycles is to get you into a relaxed state. 





> I mean I stop focusing on the senses and let my mind get clear. Is that ok?



If you mean stopping the cycles and trying to clear your mind? Not the right way, no. When doing cycles, you do them "lazily and without thought" so your thoughts start to wander as you're doing them, which is the effect you're after. I'm not sure about the 2 minute thing - since some people are have different way of doing techniques - but I would suggest experimenting and see how less or more time can be effective for you.

Hope this helps a bit.  ::mrgreen::

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## satsujin

First off, thanks for your reply and your like AstralMango! A couple clarifications if you please though...





> Hey, satsujin. For the slow cycles, I would probably attempt to do it "drifting off". You don't have to, but I think the purpose of the slow cycles is to get you into a relaxed state. 
> 
> 
> 
> If you mean stopping the cycles and trying to clear your mind? Not the right way, no. When doing cycles, you do them "lazily and without thought" so your thoughts start to wander as you're doing them, which is the effect you're after. I'm not sure about the 2 minute thing - since some people are have different way of doing techniques - but I would suggest experimenting and see how less or more time can be effective for you.
> 
> Hope this helps a bit.



After I sent my earlier post, I tried to do the slow cycles while staying as focused as I could. I noticed I was still drifting off but only for a few seconds at the most before snapping back into focus. Is this more like what I'm supposed to do? Before my technique WAS lazily and without thought meaning i wasnt really focusing on the senses at all and when I drifted off then I might have drifted off for 15-20 seconds(approx. since I was drifting off at the time . ::sheepishgrin:: ) Is this too much or is the few seconds of drifting off and then snapping back into focus on the senses okay?

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## AstralMango

You are meant to drift off, yeah. Not too sure about drifting off in fast cycles; maybe that means you're too tired. I think 10-20 seconds is okay. You are trying to get into a trance-like state after all. Someone can correct if I'm wrong!  :smiley:

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## satsujin

I should mention that when I say I tried the method the other way yesterday, I was talking about trying it while wide awake in the afternoon. When I tried it yesterday night after my WBTB I drifted off for a couple times for much longer. Only a couple times though, certainly not during each step. When I tried this with the prior method, I drifted off for about the same length of time but more frequently too. Is this ok? Also, I had trouble last night in the getting back to sleep stage. I had seen part of the South Park movie and the songs kept repeating in my head while I tried to doze off. No lucid dream either but this was only my first trial using this method. As long as you ok this method, I'd be willing to try for at least a month.

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## AstralMango

You tried it in the afternoon? How did that go?

I think what you're describing is perfectly fine (I am no master at this technique so I could be wrong). And I think you could trial this technique out if you want to. It's gotten me a lucid before and it's proven to work well for others.  :smiley:

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## satsujin

> You tried it in the afternoon? How did that go?
> 
> I think what you're describing is perfectly fine (I am no master at this technique so I could be wrong). And I think you could trial this technique out if you want to. It's gotten me a lucid before and it's proven to work well for others.



Tried it in the afternoon just as a test to see if I could properly focus on the senses. Didn't try to go to sleep after that. And like I said, when I tried it at night I had trouble falling asleep prolly cos of all the chatter in my head. Is fpcusing on your breathing as a method to relax the mind a good idea after SSILD? I seem to recall CosmicIron saying that you shouldn't mix SSILD with other meditation techniques.....

I am also considering drugs like Galantamine but will try for a natural method first for at least a couple months. Drugs could be risky for me since I'm an epileptic.

Btw, just out of curiosity, is your unusual username based off some weird dream you had? Like you dreamt you had an astral body but it was the body of a mango? ::mrgreen::

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## AstralMango

> Btw, just out of curiosity, is your unusual username based off some weird dream you had? Like you dreamt you had an astral body but it was the body of a mango?



Heh, no. I just made it up out of the blue. Astral for astral projecting, and Mango 'cause mangos are goooood.

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## satsujin

I may be doing SSILD wrong or it just may not be for me. After all the experimentation I have tried, I have discovered the following:
-Doing SSILD on my back(unusual position), I am now unable to sleep quickly after it is over
-Doing SSILD on my belly(normal position), I fall asleep while doing it within 1 or 2 slow cycles
-Doing SSILD half on back for 2 slow cycles, and half on belly for 2 slow cycles I am unable to fall asleep quickly
I haven't checked HOW long I am unable to sleep. It just feels long while I am lying in bed. Also, I only do four slow cycles in any position. Should I do more? Maybe keep doing until I fall asleep? Any suggestions?

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## satsujin

Hmmm, there's probably a very good reason SSILD has not been working for me. I just noticed you need to wait 4 to 5 hours before trying it. After going to bed at 10:30, i usually get up once around 1:00am and again at 5:00am. I've always tried the method at 1:00am so now I'll wait for my second awakening before attempting it. Wish me luck...

----------


## tofur

> I may be doing SSILD wrong or it just may not be for me. After all the experimentation I have tried, I have discovered the following:
> -Doing SSILD on my back(unusual position), I am now unable to sleep quickly after it is over
> -Doing SSILD on my belly(normal position), I fall asleep while doing it within 1 or 2 slow cycles
> -Doing SSILD half on back for 2 slow cycles, and half on belly for 2 slow cycles I am unable to fall asleep quickly
> I haven't checked HOW long I am unable to sleep. It just feels long while I am lying in bed. Also, I only do four slow cycles in any position. Should I do more? Maybe keep doing until I fall asleep? Any suggestions?



could try staying awake and out of bed for a few more minutes and then do the cycles in your normal sleep position.  Should be up for 5-10 minutes before returning to bed.

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## FryingMan

^^ It all depends on the person.  I wake up quickly: a bathroom visit and a quick voice journaling can be enough to wake me up almost fully.   So any extra time spent out of bed runs a huge risk of being wake for potentially hours.   So every person should tune the WBTB time so that they can still fall back to sleep relatively quickly.   The entire point is to grab some awareness/wake up the brain a bit, and that could run from 30 seconds to 45 minutes, entirely dependent on the person.

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## tofur

> ^^ It all depends on the person.  I wake up quickly: a bathroom visit and a quick voice journaling can be enough to wake me up almost fully.   So any extra time spent out of bed runs a huge risk of being wake for potentially hours.   So every person should tune the WBTB time so that they can still fall back to sleep relatively quickly.   The entire point is to grab some awareness/wake up the brain a bit, and that could run from 30 seconds to 45 minutes, entirely dependent on the person.



yeah for sure, I was just going on his paragraph and how he mentioned only being able to get 1-2 cycles in before passing out in his normal sleep position.  figure if he stays up for a couple more minutes maybe that will buy him enough time to get the cycles in and then immediately pass out, which is ideal.

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## BaronKriminel

Not wanting to be rude but when you read the OP this method is the Holy Grail which allowed hundreds (thousands ?) of people to lucid dreams with some highly percentage rate.

But on every single forum Cosmic Iron has posted his method, this is always the same case scenario : no one really succeed, you have tons of pages of people asking how to do it correctly because they can't LD with that method.

This method is not genuine for me and do nothing at all. Too many people struggling with too few having constant results.

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## Bobblehat

Seems a pretty accurate assessment, Baron Creepyphoto. One of the problems is, SSILD seems to have some effect, but nobody knows why it works (I've had sporadic success, btw). With MILD you can kind of see why it works, but with SSILD it's all guesswork - unless we assume it's just a short and fancy way to do WBTB and nothing else.

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## LFairweather

I would like to argue that point. Ive tried 5 or 6 techniques now, and SSILD has been the only one to work for me. Again, i have no idea why it works but im guessing the idea of stimulating your senses before re-entering a dream keeps them stimulated in the dream which makes you more aware. Ive had several Lucid dreams with this method, and i think the only problem is getting the balance between falling asleep before completing any cycles and completing all the cycles but not falling back asleep. if I get that right, i would say ive had a 70% success rate with this method.

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## BaronKriminel

If that many people had success with that method there wouldn't be in every forums so many pages just to ask how to do it properly

Glad it works for you tho

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## fogelbise

I currently feel that this is the short answer:

-Finding a way to do SSILD while falling asleep (but not so quickly that you don't at least get a few solid cycles in) is a key.
-Combining it with day practices like RC's and RRC's!
-After having the previous RC's and RRC's in place, giving it a solid 2 weeks to see some kind of results.
-You might want to avoid this or any WBTB technique if you have trouble getting back to sleep (or save it for when you can sleep in).

It has worked well for me.

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## FryingMan

I've noticed that the last few times I've tried it, SSILD has helped me to go "a level deeper," and closer to the transition.   The key is remaining relaxed while doing it, especially the visuals stage, and on the body stage, imagining that it's not my waking body I'm feeling, but my dream body.

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## CosmicIron

> If that many people had success with that method there wouldn't be in every forums so many pages just to ask how to do it properly
> 
> Glad it works for you tho



Isn't that the point of having a forum -- asking questions and get help? I'm not gonna argue whether it is more effective than other stuff, but there is no lack of recorded successful cases in this thread, on this forum, and all over the web. Saying "No one really succeed" is either the wrong observation or deliberate denial.

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## BaronKriminel

as you wish but I see more people asking for help because not succeeding than people saying it is as easy as you say it is and succeed

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## tofur

> If that many people had success with that method there wouldn't be in every forums so many pages just to ask how to do it properly
> 
> Glad it works for you tho



I've had success with it.  In fact rarely do I do it properly and not get some kind of result(vivid dreams w/ increased awareness, false awakening, lucid, etc), when nothing comes of it it's usually my own fault.  I fall asleep too fast, mostly.

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## LucidProdigy

I've tried SSILD for the past two days and have gotten 6 FAs. I was only planning on using it to increase to overall awareness of my normal dreams so I would have a better chance of becoming lucid...but wasn't quite expecting this. I haven't successfully converted any of the six into a full blown lucid yet but I'll try again tonight.

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## fogelbise

> as you wish but I see more people asking for help because not succeeding than people saying it is as easy as you say it is and succeed



Threads for techniques that don't work for a good sampling of people tend to die out and not have 800+ posts and 35 pages. The technique helps in some way for both DILDs and WILDs. I have seen many members here have success with it including myself. It is probably not for everyone though.

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## CosmicIron

> I've tried SSILD for the past two days and have gotten 6 FAs. I was only planning on using it to increase to overall awareness of my normal dreams so I would have a better chance of becoming lucid...but wasn't quite expecting this. I haven't successfully converted any of the six into a full blown lucid yet but I'll try again tonight.



It is extremely important to perform RC every time you wake up from SSILD. The chance of it being an FA is quite high. Sometimes it can be a strange state in between an FA and real awakening which, with more delicate handling, can be easily converted into a full-blown lucid dream.





> Threads for techniques that don't work for a good sampling of people tend to die out and not have 800+ posts and 35 pages. The technique helps in some way for both DILDs and WILDs. I have seen many members here have success with it including myself. It is probably not for everyone though.



Thank you for backing me up. I agree that the technique is not as easy and bullet/idiot proof as I'd like it to be. I too would love to see a technique that works for everyone with minimal efforts.





> Seems a pretty accurate assessment, Baron Creepyphoto. One of the problems is, SSILD seems to have some effect, but nobody knows why it works (I've had sporadic success, btw). With MILD you can kind of see why it works, but with SSILD it's all guesswork - unless we assume it's just a short and fancy way to do WBTB and nothing else.



Honestly I'm not sure if the assessment is THAT accurate. There are numerous success cases on this forum, in fact, too numerous too list. I'm not saying it's the best, never said that, but it does work for many people. As for why it works -- we don't even know what lucid dreaming really is, right? Human consciousness to this day remains a mysterious subject. Can we REALLY say we know exactly WHY the other techniques work? I don't think so.





> Hmmm, there's probably a very good reason SSILD has not been working for me. I just noticed you need to wait 4 to 5 hours before trying it. After going to bed at 10:30, i usually get up once around 1:00am and again at 5:00am. I've always tried the method at 1:00am so now I'll wait for my second awakening before attempting it. Wish me luck...



You do need to get sufficient amount of sleep prior to trying SSILD.

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## PierceHerVeil

Is ssild actually easy? How does it mnake you lucid dream? Is it like wild were you are already concious or?

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## Imaginary

How do you know when you are in false awakening or false awakening is going to happen?

I mean in the past trying DEILD, focusing on tactile sensations waiting for dream to appear i would like stay awake for too long or just pass out for a brief moment and wake up in false awakening with no transmition sensations or anything, few times i did RC and found myself into false awakening still waiting for the dream to appear and still focusing on my body sensations. I didn't get any signs of transmition or anything.

Is there a way for me to know when false awakening happens and identify it while doing this?

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## CosmicIron

> How do you know when you are in false awakening or false awakening is going to happen?
> 
> I mean in the past trying DEILD, focusing on tactile sensations waiting for dream to appear i would like stay awake for too long or just pass out for a brief moment and wake up in false awakening with no transmition sensations or anything, few times i did RC and found myself into false awakening still waiting for the dream to appear and still focusing on my body sensations. I didn't get any signs of transmition or anything.
> 
> Is there a way for me to know when false awakening happens and identify it while doing this?



There is no way to identify the FAs easily -- they can be quite convincing. Worse, some of the SSILD triggered FAs can be extremely life-like. The good news is that the chance of having FAs after performing SSILD can be very high, and when you are into these FAs you usually can remember clearly that you are waking up from SSILD. Thus, if you can develop the habit of reality checking upon awakening then you will have a much higher chance to catch these FAs.

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## FryingMan

Not meaning it to be judgemental, but logically, length of discussion thread does not necessarily correlate with "goodness of" a technique, it more appropriately measures "interest in" (and/or "problems with") said technique.    WBTB is also (scientifically BTW, the LaBerge study) proven to boost LD frequency.   So maybe SSILD is just WBTB, or maybe it's just a "mental anchor" for WILD (after all, WILD just means falling asleep holding on to some awareness) .   But even if so, SSILD is at least a concrete and fairly simple approach to doing these things.    Sometimes we get too stuck on labels...

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## mitten1997

i've found success with ssild only twice and hadn't yield any real results since...there must be something wrong i'm doing, it's such a promising technique for me. last night i slept a bit before 12 and woke up around 3:50, stayed up for five minutes. fast cycles no problem, then the longer ones. i focus on each sense for at least 30 seconds. is that too long?

i find that when i'm successful with this technique i feel like i'm losing sleep..

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## CosmicIron

> i've found success with ssild only twice and hadn't yield any real results since...there must be something wrong i'm doing, it's such a promising technique for me. last night i slept a bit before 12 and woke up around 3:50, stayed up for five minutes. fast cycles no problem, then the longer ones. i focus on each sense for at least 30 seconds. is that too long?
> 
> i find that when i'm successful with this technique i feel like i'm losing sleep..



So what happened last night? Did you fall asleep after the cycles? If so how long it took you? Did you remember any dreams afterward? Any subsequent awakenings? Let me know more details so I can help you diagnose.  :smiley:

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## mitten1997

hello  :smiley:  as soon as i did the cycles i turned over to fall asleep, which was difficult. i was falling asleep during the cycles though. i spent the next two hours in light sleep and didn't dream at all.  when i woke up i did an rc and failed. the thing is i also slept like this when the technique resulted in a dild on two occasions. the weird thing is that i felt like i was conscious during those two hours, it didn't even feel like i was asleep that long.

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## fogelbise

> Not meaning it to be judgemental, but logically, length of discussion thread does not necessarily correlate with "goodness of" a technique, it more appropriately measures "interest in" (and/or "problems with") said technique.    WBTB is also (scientifically BTW, the LaBerge study) proven to boost LD frequency.   So maybe SSILD is just WBTB, or maybe it's just a "mental anchor" for WILD (after all, WILD just means falling asleep holding on to some awareness) .   But even if so, SSILD is at least a concrete and fairly simple approach to doing these things.    Sometimes we get too stuck on labels...



FryingMan, my friend...one counter if I may.  :smiley:  I hear you on the logical point, but my experience in going around these forums is that people tend to move on if they don't either see people having success with a given technique or are finding success themselves. If a technique is difficult to comprehend and/or takes significant effort, then you lose a huge group of people right off of the top. That is unfortunate because long term success in lucid dreaming takes significant effort for most people. Anyway, here is a little hidden thread that was created just over 9 months after this thread was started:

http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...s-stories.html

It is quite impressive to read all of the successes. It was posted almost a year and a half ago so there are more stories that could be added to it. Also, if you believe that it creates a trance-like state (which I can sometimes notice) then it would have to be a little more than just WBTB.

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## tofur

Yeah SSILD works, I don't think that can be questioned.  

I think it takes a little personalized tweaking for everyone, meaning for some people they need to sleep for 6 hours before doing the cycles, for others it works best after 4.  Some need to get out of bed and jump around for a couple minutes so they don't instantly fall asleep, others shouldn't even get out of bed or they will be awake for hours.

The cycles themselves are just one part of the equation, the rest of it is pretty personalized based on everything I've read (this whole thread) and my personal experience.  Takes time to learn it/fit it into your life.

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## FryingMan

Yeah, but I don't pay much heed to success stories unless they hold steady and regular for serious time (months, years).   "It worked once for me!" is really not statistically interesting (people LD for the first time sometimes just by being excited about this new thing).  But I know you personally get a lot of LDs out of it, so that to me means it should remain in serious consideration...

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## CosmicIron

> hello  as soon as i did the cycles i turned over to fall asleep, which was difficult. i was falling asleep during the cycles though. i spent the next two hours in light sleep and didn't dream at all.  when i woke up i did an rc and failed. the thing is i also slept like this when the technique resulted in a dild on two occasions. the weird thing is that i felt like i was conscious during those two hours, it didn't even feel like i was asleep that long.



This is normal, and usually goes away with a little bit more practice. If you are falling asleep during the cycles, just let go and sleep. The trick of SSILD is to know when to give up  :smiley: 





> Yeah, but I don't pay much heed to success stories unless they hold steady and regular for serious time (months, years).   "It worked once for me!" is really not statistically interesting (people LD for the first time sometimes just by being excited about this new thing).  But I know you personally get a lot of LDs out of it, so that to me means it should remain in serious consideration...



There is also a thread in which people test the technique continuously for 30 days. While the technique is far from perfect, it does work consistently for many people, and the evidences are all over the net.

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## gnomefan

first and foremost i want to give my thanks to CosmicIron. Ive been a silent reader of this forum and this particular thread for a while now, 2 weeks to be exact. The main reason i wanted to try this method is because of its simplicity. Just lay back, relax and sleep. Any idiot can do that, i thought to myself.

How wrong was i. 2 weeks without nothing but total relaxation before drifting off to sleep. Maybe because of my sleep schedule which is quite messed up (3am - 9.30am), it had impacted my trial of this method. But i promised myself that i wouldn't give up unless i given this a months test. Right now, im on a vacation and decided what better time to try this out since my sleep scheduled would be normal again, even for a few days.

I didn't exactly perform a WBTB but i was able to be in a LD for the first time in my life. here how it goes:

I woke up and gone to the buffet breakfast, came back and still quite sleepy. Took the chance to catch a few zzzs, before falling asleep, i did 4 quick cycles, then continue with another 4 rounds of slow ones. This time i am able to complete all 4 cycles with some minor disturbances(itchiness , etc). I did this quite differently then before, i would usually do this on my back and fall asleep on my side, but today i would do it on my side while crossing my arms(so that i wouldnt fall asleep so easily) and after im done with all the cycles, i would let go of my arms and fall asleep on my side as usual.

After that, i fall asleep, with this method, i realise that it relaxes me to the max and it eases the process of falling asleep. Nothing out of the norm after that, got into a dream, normal. After i start practising this method, i realise that my dreams are much much more easier to remember/recall. The dream was quite vivid, i see the faces of my friends and remember each of them, but the environment was unknown to me. But suddenly, clones of my friends started to appear, so each of them had 3 clones with them. Then suddenly, i realised something, Im dreaming! I shouted loudly(in my dreams) that i'm dreaming and i demanded to be lucid. And guess what, i got lucid! yeay! for the first time ever in my life!

I was so happy at the time, and glad that i didnt woke up because i read that if you get to excited you might wake up. After screaming that, i decided to do a couple of RC and i dont know why since i'm already lucid. LOL. I did the hands check, i see that my fingers were all twisted up looking funny, and then did the nose plug. Both checked out and i know i'm dreaming. Now comes the fun part.

I start experimenting with the people i want to see, but i am not able to meet them. Guess have to practice more. Then i started walking around the area and started disturbing the people that seems to be working there. Suddenly, i closed my dream eyes and the place got dark. After that i open my eyes again and i woke up from my dream and sees my hotel room, the thing is, i woke up in a different position and the hotel room looks different. I did a nose plug again, and wallah, im still breathing. Guess this is what is called an FA right CosmicIron? Then i wanted to fly, but i only got up to the ceiling of my room and got stuck. Its okay, i opened the door and sees that its quite dark with some nightmareish characters around, so i decided to jump out of the window. When falling from my room, i see that i can slow down time almost Matrix like. LOL

After that i walked around the town that im in and did some crazy stuff. After that i hear my phone ringing and i finally woke up while cursing the caller. LOL. What a wonderful experience. Will try to LD again tonight.

What i noticed was that it was so vivid that every touch i can feel, almost as if im in real life. Thank you CosmicIron for sharing this technique and i will continue updating this thread everytime i have an LD. sorry if this post is too long. I was super excited to share my first LD ever with you and the others  :tongue2:

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## TheGreenDonkey

Thank you cosmiciron! I've tried ssild 3 times and it has worked 2 times in a row

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## Iriba

I tried this for my 1st time after 4-5 hours
and nothing happened to me.
I was "reporting" what task would be next as well
such as: "next stage i'll have to imagine a color"
Maybe that interfered in my sleep?
I also take a long time to sleep, so i just have to re-do it
over and over again?

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## CosmicIron

> I tried this for my 1st time after 4-5 hours
> and nothing happened to me.
> I was "reporting" what task would be next as well
> such as: "next stage i'll have to imagine a color"
> Maybe that interfered in my sleep?
> I also take a long time to sleep, so i just have to re-do it
> over and over again?



You don't need to "imagine" seeing things. That interferes with the technique and causes stress to prevent you from falling sleep. Just passively observe what's in front of you, with your eyes closd of course, and do not strain to see anything. It is perfectly okay not to see anything. Just the action of seeing is enough. Don't think too much.

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## solpic

First of all I want to say that this technique has worked wonders for me. I have a pretty much 100% success rate with LDs now and that was going from having maybe one LD a week, and never knowing when it would happen. And the really cool thing is that when it works, it really works and I'll tend to have at least 3 or 4 LDs with it. I am curious and at some point in time I am going to test whether it is the technique, or just wbtb that is making me lucid, but for now I'm enjoying having tons of LDs and will have faith in the technique.

Now the question I have is this, except for helping with deilds, does dream journaling help when using this technique? Also, should I be doing the technique every time I wake up after my initial wbtb? Thanks!

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## Matt1

Hey Cosmic, it says in the tutorial that doing the cycles upon initial sleep is a waste of time. However, I have found that is not the case for me. Lately I have been doing the cycles upon initial sleep, then waking via alarm somewhere between 3-5 hours later. And I have noticed that my recall/awareness is way higher during that time when I did the cycles beforehand than when I didn't.

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## Verre

I just came across this thread yesterday and so last night I tried out the technique. The first time worked like a charm! It could just be the enthusiasm about trying something new, but what impressed me was that the LD itself _felt_ very different from either the WILDs or DILDs I have typically. 

My usual homebrew WILD technique is to WBTB after 3-5 hours (I never use an alarm as I often wake up naturally during the night), lie on my back and count incrementally while using meditative breathing, the same number on each in and out breath. The advantage of this technique is that I can tell when I'm getting close to sleep by how easily I lose my place in the numbers, so it makes me attentive to the process of falling asleep. The disadvantage is that I almost never go directly into the dream state: I would drift very close to sleep and then at some point fully wake up again, usually before reaching 100. At this point I would give up on the attempt and turn on my side to let myself fall asleep without any further technique, but this pattern led to enough successes that I eventually realized that what I had thought of as "giving up" was actually an integral part of the process. Still, my success rate was never as high as I would like. 

At risk of being criticized by people with different notions or who use the terms differently, I should perhaps point out that when I say "WILD" I am referring to the type of dream that some people apparently call "OBE," that is, my WILDs have always involved transitioning to a dream body and getting up out of bed into a dream version of the place I fell asleep. This is relevant because the dream I experienced with the SSILD was distinct from what I would normally class as a WILD. It was also not really a DILD, in that I didn't become lucid within an ongoing dream. Rather, the emergence of the dream state and my awareness of it seemed to coalesce together at the border of sleep. It actually felt like a type of dream I hadn't had before, which is encouraging. (Then again, the whole time I was falling asleep I kept reminding myself, as per the OP's instructions, that I was _not_ trying to WILD, so maybe the dream was just responding to my expectations!)

I've never been prone to vivid hypnogogic imagery, sounds, or sensations, even during the onset of successful WILDs, but I did notice that the SSILD technique of sense-cycling seemed to make me better attuned than normal to hypnogogic imagery and phrases (my hypnogogic experiences usually consist of random verbal constructions rather than sensations). It's also notable that the vividness did _not_ occur while I was performing the sense-cycling exercise, but afterwards when I was no longer paying deliberate attention but just trying to let myself fall asleep. This surprised me because I always thought I had been sufficiently attentive to the hypnogogic state while using my normal WILD technique, but this was much more vivid. It seemed as though the deliberateness of cycling my attention through one type of sensation at a time ("sight, sound, somatic," I kept reminding myself) worked to enhance my overall awareness afterward. 

It also delayed the onset of sleep rather longer than I would have expected, but I might have done the initially cycling a bit "aggressively," as the OP put in a later post. Still, I was hoping for success and I got it. A single success is, of course, by no means definitive, but it was encouraging, and I will continue to experiment with this technique. 

(My description of the dream itself is posted on my dream journal.)

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## Kuyarei

Am i able to SSILD when going for a sleep in the morning?

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## CosmicIron

> First of all I want to say that this technique has worked wonders for me. I have a pretty much 100% success rate with LDs now and that was going from having maybe one LD a week, and never knowing when it would happen. And the really cool thing is that when it works, it really works and I'll tend to have at least 3 or 4 LDs with it. I am curious and at some point in time I am going to test whether it is the technique, or just wbtb that is making me lucid, but for now I'm enjoying having tons of LDs and will have faith in the technique.
> 
> Now the question I have is this, except for helping with deilds, does dream journaling help when using this technique? Also, should I be doing the technique every time I wake up after my initial wbtb? Thanks!



Dream journaling is nice and improves dream recall, but I personally don't feel it adds extra value to the technique. As for your other question, I feel that since you already have a very high success rate you probably shouldn't alter your routines too much. There is no definitive BEST way to do this technique. What's best is the one that works for you  :smiley:

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## CosmicIron

> Hey Cosmic, it says in the tutorial that doing the cycles upon initial sleep is a waste of time. However, I have found that is not the case for me. Lately I have been doing the cycles upon initial sleep, then waking via alarm somewhere between 3-5 hours later. And I have noticed that my recall/awareness is way higher during that time when I did the cycles beforehand than when I didn't.



Your observation is true, I think. On our forum there are quite a few people who have managed to use SSILD to trigger LDs during initial sleep. Personally I also observe better recall and dream vividness whenever I perform the cycles.

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## CosmicIron

> Am i able to SSILD when going for a sleep in the morning?



You can use SSILD any time you want. Just don't focus too much or get excited when doing it, as you may risk losing sleep.

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## Verre

> You can use SSILD any time you want. Just don't focus too much or get excited when doing it, as you may risk losing sleep.



Haha, you're damn right about that. After using SSILD so successfully the night before last, but only getting about five hours of sleep because I spent the rest of the morning writing everything down, last night I was just planning to catch up on my sleep without any kind of practice. But upon waking up naturally after five hours I was like, "Well, it couldn't hurt just to run through some cycles. It's not a real attempt or anything. I'll just see what happens." After lying in bed awake for the next hour and a half, I had to acknowledge that I was up for the day! 

I actually find this quite interesting because normally I'll wake up and even get out of bed from two to six times in an average night and never have any trouble getting back to sleep, even after hour-long WBTBs drinking caffeinated tea and using my computer with all the lights on, followed by intensive counting regimes when I'm making a WILD attempt. After I'm done, I usually fall back asleep effortlessly within minutes. It makes me speculate that something about engaging the senses with SSILD signals "wakefulness" to part of the brain -- perhaps the very part that needs to be active during dreaming to establish lucid awareness. 

On the same basis, on the rare occasions that I have experienced real insomnia, I'm always pleased because I know that if I _do_ succeed in getting to sleep, my chances of having an LD are greatly increased. So I wonder if the reason SSILD is effective is because it stimulates the very conditions that would normally keep the higher brain functions active and awake, but counters the potential for insomnia with the suggestion to do it "lazily," don't actively try to WILD, just relax and go to sleep.

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## ThreeCat

Hi all,

Just wanted to say I have practiced this seriously for one night -- had three false awakenings and one LD.

Also wanted to add that this LD was a false awakening, and occurred at the beginning of the night (in the first cycle).  So it _can_ work at the beginning of the night, seemingly, and with there not being too much time or effort investment, it's worth a shot, isn't it?

EDIT:  Just read some of the newer stuff, so I realize I am not alone!  Hurray for first-cycle SSILDs!






> Not meaning it to be judgemental, but logically, length of discussion thread does not necessarily correlate with "goodness of" a technique, it more appropriately measures "interest in" (and/or "problems with") said technique.    WBTB is also (scientifically BTW, the LaBerge study) proven to boost LD frequency.   So maybe SSILD is just WBTB, or maybe it's just a "mental anchor" for WILD (after all, WILD just means falling asleep holding on to some awareness) .   But even if so, SSILD is at least a concrete and fairly simple approach to doing these things.    Sometimes we get too stuck on labels...



FryingMan (are you a cook, BTW?), here is my guess at why SSILD works.  I believe it is a mix of stimulating our strongest senses before REM (which has already been hypothesized by many others here) which may make us more aware and all that good stuff.  On the other hand, I think that the emptiness of the mind during SSILD creates a kind of default dream landscape (your bedroom, probably, with the dream "program" that you've awakened).  

I think it is very similar to what Sageous talks about in his WILD thread -- the quietness of the mind during WILD, in general, can create a kind of landscape that resembles the place you started, as the mind has not had time to really spin up some wild dream scene.  Also, FAs are easier to turn into LDs because (IMO) it is easier to train the mind to RC upon awakening (because it can be made a habit) than it is to train the mind to recognize dream signs.

BTW, is one of your dream signs being blown away by the wind?  Please tell me yes.  I've snooped on your DJ a couple of times and was struck by how much that wind wants to blow you away.

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## HeWhoShapes

Wow, I tried this one time and had a false awakening. Seems like a promising method though I need more time to experiment with it.

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## Cubellius

This is a newbie question but I want to be sure about doing things right, so bear with me: How exactly do I "focus" on something? Like, when I do a cycle, I have to focus on my eyes - do I kind of imagine looking at my eyeballs from a third person perspective? Do I focus on the blackness itself? Do I try to find some flashing colors/lights in this darkness? Do I just have to think about my eyes/vision and not really try to "focus" on anything?

For the ears part, I can simply focus on the light buzzing, so no problems there. But, for focusing on my body, I'm not sure what to do either. The first time I did this technique (due to excitement?) I did feel a falling/floating sensation, but it stopped after I stopped doing SSILD (I was on my 4th long cycle), and couldn't fall asleep after that for a long time. Never had that sensation again, so I'm not sure what I should focus on. Just my pillow resting on my arms? Trying to feel gravity pulling my body into the bed?

Also, my sleep schedule is pretty messed up (due to summer I guess..), and often times it's really hard to get a WBTB in. How long should I stay up for? I tried doing 30mins first, but it took me 2 hours to fall asleep after that and doing 4 cycles of SSILD. Today, on the other hand, I just got up and walked around for 6 minutes, then did SSILD - but this seems to be too short of an awake-time, since I had trouble focusing on SSILD. I tried not focusing, and letting those soothing thoughts lull me to sleep, but my mind seemed to get "conscious" of the fact that it's falling asleep, and "snap back" to awake mode. I think in the end I tried doing more SSILD and keeping focus instead of letting my thoughts go wild, and fell asleep that way. So is there supposed to be some sweet spot for the length of a WBTB?

Thanks.

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## ThreeCat

I think of focusing as giving your attention to something.  Just place your awareness on it.  So, when being aware of the body, I simply am aware of what it feels like to have a body.  I feel the points of the floor touching my shoulder blades, feet, hands, etc., and the heaviness of the body.  It's about experiencing it, and not thinking about it.  Hopefully that makes sense.

I had a similar falling sensation this morning while practicing, so I think you are fine.  As for WBTB, there is no real sweet spot (at least I do not think so).  I usually do enough to DJ and get some water (takes around 30 minutes -- yikes!) and then go back to bed.  Normally do this in the dark so I don't get too awake, as I can have trouble dropping off again.

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## Cubellius

> I think of focusing as giving your attention to something.  Just place your awareness on it.  So, when being aware of the body, I simply am aware of what it feels like to have a body.  I feel the points of the floor touching my shoulder blades, feet, hands, etc., and the heaviness of the body.  It's about experiencing it, and not thinking about it.  Hopefully that makes sense.



So.. are there any actual/physical things you can place awareness on when focusing on your eyes? I mean, with focusing on your body, you can, as you said, focus on your shoulders, feet, hands, which is similar to what I was doing.. But I can't seem to find a more direct thing to focus on with eyes. Not sure what you mean by 'experiencing it'.

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## Darkmatters

If you close your eyelids and press gently against your eyes you'll start to see swirling patterns of transparent sparks and shapes. There should always be something like this 'visible' with eyes closed - it just becomes a lot more apparent if you press on your eyelids. These patterns are what you focus on or look for. Sometimes it's hard to see them at first, because you think all you see with your eyes closed is blackness, but they're there - they're just extremely subtle until you slip into a very relaxed state, by which time normally you're not paying attention to such things. 

What you'll notice if you're ever able to remain aware through the transition (WILD) is that it's these swirling random patterns that form themselves into dream imagery, at first very transparently. I was able to witness it once and it was amazing - at first the random patterns resolved themselves into an image of a field, but still very transparent, it actually looked very similar to reflections seen on a window at night , so that things are rather colorless and very low contrast. The fact that it became a recognizable image grabbed my attention and as I looked at it it became quickly more solid and real, and then it began to move, drifting sideways past me as if I were looking out the window of a car at a field while moving slowly past it. This then became a dream in which I was in a car being driven by my dad.

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## Cubellius

> If you close your eyelids and press gently against your eyes you'll start to see swirling patterns of transparent sparks and shapes. There should always be something like this 'visible' with eyes closed - it just becomes a lot more apparent if you press on your eyelids. These patterns are what you focus on or look for. Sometimes it's hard to see them at first, because you think all you see with your eyes closed is blackness, but they're there - they're just extremely subtle until you slip into a very relaxed state, by which time normally you're not paying attention to such things. 
> 
> What you'll notice if you're ever able to remain aware through the transition (WILD) is that it's these swirling random patterns that form themselves into dream imagery, at first very transparently. I was able to witness it once and it was amazing - at first the random patterns resolved themselves into an image of a field, but still very transparent, it actually looked very similar to reflections seen on a window at night , so that things are rather colorless and very low contrast. The fact that it became a recognizable image grabbed my attention and as I looked at it it became quickly more solid and real, and then it began to move, drifting sideways past me as if I were looking out the window of a car at a field while moving slowly past it. This then became a dream in which I was in a car being driven by my dad.



Interesting.. I haven't gotten around to trying WILD yet, but in the SSILD tutorial it says that you're not really supposed to see anything.. I guess it's fine if I accidentally do get a WILD though LOL

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## OneUp

> If you close your eyelids and press gently against your eyes you'll start to see swirling patterns of transparent sparks and shapes. There should always be something like this 'visible' with eyes closed - it just becomes a lot more apparent if you press on your eyelids. These patterns are what you focus on or look for. Sometimes it's hard to see them at first, because you think all you see with your eyes closed is blackness, but they're there - they're just extremely subtle until you slip into a very relaxed state, by which time normally you're not paying attention to such things. 
> 
> What you'll notice if you're ever able to remain aware through the transition (WILD) is that it's these swirling random patterns that form themselves into dream imagery, at first very transparently. I was able to witness it once and it was amazing - at first the random patterns resolved themselves into an image of a field, but still very transparent, it actually looked very similar to reflections seen on a window at night , so that things are rather colorless and very low contrast. The fact that it became a recognizable image grabbed my attention and as I looked at it it became quickly more solid and real, and then it began to move, drifting sideways past me as if I were looking out the window of a car at a field while moving slowly past it. This then became a dream in which I was in a car being driven by my dad.



Wow I learned alot from that DarkMatters, this will help alot with my journies is SSILD or WILD. Itll give me something too focus on now instead of just sitting there

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## Sageous

I feel a need to clarify something:

SSILD is a _form_ of WILD, or better yet a technique for achieving WILD.  They are not two different things.

WILD is not a technique but rather, as Darkmatters noted above, it is the description of the transition from wake to sleep without losing waking-life self-awareness.  SSILD is a technique for enabling WILD transitions, so when you have a successful SSILD, you have also had a successful WILD.

This in no way is meant to belittle SSILD, which is a fine technique.  I just think it is a good idea, and ultimately a lot less confusing, to remember that there are two basic pathways to LD's: WILD and DILD.  They are not techniques but conditions of consciousness; the techniques (like SSILD or MILD) are what you employ to achieve WILD's and DIILD's.

Just sayin'

 :sageous: 

[I have a feeling I said this before on this thread, but I can't remember... all apologies to OP for repetitious intrusions!]

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## Darkmatters

> Interesting.. I haven't gotten around to trying WILD yet, but in the SSILD tutorial it says that you're *not really supposed to see anything*.. I guess it's fine if I accidentally do get a WILD though LOL



I'm not quite sure what this means - maybe you were referring to my description? I did describe visuals that transitioned into a dream - I didn't mean that's necessarily what's supposed to happen with SSILD - I was simply using a story to clarify the type of visuals you're looking for behind the eyelids.

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## Verre

> How long should I stay up for? I tried doing 30mins first, but it took me 2 hours to fall asleep after that and doing 4 cycles of SSILD. Today, on the other hand, I just got up and walked around for 6 minutes, then did SSILD - but this seems to be too short of an awake-time, since I had trouble focusing on SSILD. I tried not focusing, and letting those soothing thoughts lull me to sleep, but my mind seemed to get "conscious" of the fact that it's falling asleep, and "snap back" to awake mode. I think in the end I tried doing more SSILD and keeping focus instead of letting my thoughts go wild, and fell asleep that way. So is there supposed to be some sweet spot for the length of a WBTB?



There's no hard and fast rule for how long WBTBs should last: it's different for every person, and to make matters more complicated, for every person it might be different from night to night. The best you can do is develop a feel for how easy or hard it is for you generally to fall back asleep after a given amount of waking stimulus, and plan accordingly. 

I've also frequently had the experience like the one you describe: when I do a WBTB followed by a deliberate attempt to induce a WILD, I will come very close to real sleep and then "snap back" to waking consciousness. At this point I usually get disappointed and "give up" on my attempt, turning to the position in which I will fall asleep most easily and no longer attempting to accomplish anything... but it turned out that this is the pattern that has led the most often to successful WILDs. So whether you're using SSILD or some other technique, you might initially try some sort of intensive practice that will induce the trance-like state, then if you find yourself snapping back to wakefulness, "give up" and let yourself go to sleep without further ritual. In my experience, this is by no means a foolproof or reliable technique, but it has led to a fair number of WILDs.

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## Cubellius

> I'm not quite sure what this means - maybe you were referring to my description? I did describe visuals that transitioned into a dream - I didn't mean that's necessarily what's supposed to happen with SSILD - I was simply using a story to clarify the type of visuals you're looking for behind the eyelids.



Ah I see, I think I misunderstood the OP as I thought you're supposed to NOT see those colored patterns. This makes a lot more sense now, and I think I know what to do from now on. Thank you for your description.






> There's no hard and fast rule for how long WBTBs should last: it's different for every person, and to make matters more complicated, for every person it might be different from night to night. The best you can do is develop a feel for how easy or hard it is for you generally to fall back asleep after a given amount of waking stimulus, and plan accordingly. 
> 
> I've also frequently had the experience like the one you describe: when I do a WBTB followed by a deliberate attempt to induce a WILD, I will come very close to real sleep and then "snap back" to waking consciousness. At this point I usually get disappointed and "give up" on my attempt, turning to the position in which I will fall asleep most easily and no longer attempting to accomplish anything... but it turned out that this is the pattern that has led the most often to successful WILDs. So whether you're using SSILD or some other technique, you might initially try some sort of intensive practice that will induce the trance-like state, then if you find yourself snapping back to wakefulness, "give up" and let yourself go to sleep without further ritual. In my experience, this is by no means a foolproof or reliable technique, but it has led to a fair number of WILDs.



Thanks for the tips, I guess I will keep experimenting with WBTB length.

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## CanisLucidus

> SSILD is a _form_ of WILD, or better yet a technique for achieving WILD.  They are not two different things.
> 
> WILD is not a technique but rather, as Darkmatters noted above, it is the description of the transition from wake to sleep without losing waking-life self-awareness.  SSILD is a technique for enabling WILD transitions, so when you have a successful SSILD, you have also had a successful WILD.
> 
> This in no way is meant to belittle SSILD, which is a fine technique.  I just think it is a good idea, and ultimately a lot less confusing, to remember that there are two basic pathways to LD's: WILD and DILD.  They are not techniques but conditions of consciousness; the techniques (like SSILD or MILD) are what you employ to achieve WILD's and DIILD's.



Good post!

I'd add one more point, just to make sure things are clear as far as SSILD is concerned: SSILD actually tends to cause _more DILDs_ than it does WILDs, particularly for newer practitioners.  I've done a good bit of SSILDing and the great majority of successes led me down the DILD pathway.

So the summary is that SSILD can lead you down _either_ pathway (WILD or DILD), with DILD being the more common.  Of course, lucid is lucid, so we're happy with whatever we can get!   :smiley:

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## Verre

Another amazing success with SSILD last night, this time culminating in a straightforward WILD. It's too soon to gauge the success rate of this technique for me, but I would estimate that so far I'm at two successes out of three real attempts. However, the technique is so easy and casual that it can be hard to differentiate between a "real attempt" versus "I'll just think about this in a half-assed way as I'm falling asleep." 

What particularly impresses me about SSILD is the incredible clarity of the dreams that it has produced. And on this occasion, the clarity extended throughout the whole process of falling asleep: the first three full paragraphs in my dream report (see my dream journal) consist of all the impressions I had _before the dream actually started_! This is markedly different from most of the WILDs I've had before, which usually involve a vague period of unconsciousness before I snap back to myself and realize I've made the transition. And even then the integration is often poor and requires a lot of work to "clean up" before I can do anything more interesting. Often I find myself half-waking and having to DEILD back into them, sometimes up to four or five times. This was a totally different experience: clean, clear, and conscious, so much so that it took a long time before I finally even realized I was asleep!

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## solpic

I've noticed for myself that SSILD is only really successful if I stay up for at least 10 or 15 minutes, otherwise my brain isn't awake enough and I can't concentrate on doing the cycles. However, when I do that it usually takes me a pretty long time to fall back asleep, yet I have a pretty much 100% success rate with LDs. If I continue to practice the technique in this fashion will I eventually be able to fall asleep more quickly, since the technique is meant to make you fall asleep in some sense? To be fair, I've also noticed that even if I stay up for just 3 or 5 minutes, even though the technique is way more difficult and I don't get lucid dreams, I still tend to stay up for a while afterwards. What would you recommend? Also, for you or other people very experienced with the technique, how much extra sleep do you actually need when doing it at this point vs. when you were starting out? Thanks!

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## Avalokiteshvara

I had two periods of SSILD working powerfully but then it just stopped working completely. I'm altering it to be more of a WILD anchor and seeing what happens.

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## HeWhoShapes

Just a quick question: Is it ok to use SSILD with a WILD anchor that I have as a backup if SSILD fails?

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## fogelbise

I will chime in and help where I can.





> Also, for you or other people very experienced with the technique, how much extra sleep do you actually need when doing it at this point vs. when you were starting out? Thanks!



I am usually able to fall asleep quicker than when I first started using SSILD. Early on, I saved many of my attempts to the weekends when I could sleep in. The good news is that I also found that when it took me longer to get back to sleep, it seemed to increase my odds of becoming lucid.





> I had two periods of SSILD working powerfully but then it just stopped working completely. I'm altering it to be more of a WILD anchor and seeing what happens.



I see nothing wrong with experimenting but I just wanted to add a note to anyone else reading this saying that they should be aware that this doesn't have to be the result for you. I have been using it for about 18 months and it was almost always used on nights when I had lucid dreams. I do strongly feel that my day practices are also an important part of this continued success. My day practices include Sageous' self awareness work which I feel is an important key to my practices.





> Just a quick question: Is it ok to use SSILD with a WILD anchor that I have as a backup if SSILD fails?



The author's instructions suggest not adding anything to it...to just do the cycles and then go to sleep. If you fall into a WILD while doing it (and I have), then great! You could always try out what you are proposing and then go back to normal SSILD if your experimentation doesn't work.

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## Avalokiteshvara

What reasons' could anybody surmise as to why it has stopped working for me, after being the most powerful method I've attempted yet for a week?

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## Bobblehat

> What reasons' could anybody surmise as to why it has stopped working for me, after being the most powerful method I've attempted yet for a week?



I had the same problem. It gave me LDs at first, then only better recall, then no difference to just normally going to sleep.

Because nobody knows how it works, it's all guesswork.

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## yaya

Lol! SSILD worked for me just 3 times. I think those LD techniques which don't have a deep impact on our overall awareness, only work by chance. As the other members said, it's better to combine SSILD with other techniques which can raise your self awareness.

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## Avalokiteshvara

Well, come to think of it, because of the ease of the method and powerful effects, SSILD probably has much to offer still. It seems like the adepts on this site have focused on 1-3 main methods and have tweaked them to the point where they made the techniques work for them personally. For me, MILD, WILD and the other variations have done very little except give me very infrequent weak LD's maybe once every other week. And I mean those dreams where you realize you're dreaming but are still stuck in a haze. And that was with constant effort compared to how little I put towards SSILD to achieve full lucidity multiple times.

There must be some sort of habituation going on here, where the technique becomes another habit. Meditators fall into this problem frequently. Where it ends up being another mental habit with not results. There have got to be ways to tweak it when it stops working.

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## Ctharlhie

> I had the same problem. It gave me LDs at first, then only better recall, then no difference to just normally going to sleep.
> 
> Because nobody knows how it works, it's all guesswork.



But we do know how it works: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...sild-work.html

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## fogelbise

> Well, come to think of it, because of the ease of the method and powerful effects, SSILD probably has much to offer still. It seems like the adepts on this site have focused on 1-3 main methods and have tweaked them to the point where they made the techniques work for them personally.



You may be on to something. I did also tweak it after maybe 20 or so LDs and just recently experimented with a different tactile sense but went back to my original tactile sense.





> ...compared to how little I put towards SSILD to achieve full lucidity multiple times.



That is what I have seen in many people's experiences. For many people, it seems to be a straightforward way to capture some LDs.





> But we do know how it works: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...sild-work.html



I saw a couple of good theories on that link, including yours at the top. Just the other day I was telling one of the DILD students that SSILD has a kind of meditative effect for me. If it works because it gets more people to meditate during WBTB, I see nothing wrong with that...but I think it is a little more than that...perhaps combining a type of meditation with heightened awareness of the three senses that it deals with...basically along the lines of what Memm said in your thread linked above.

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## Bobblehat

Also - don't forget - many people report difficulties getting back to sleep after performing SSILD then reports LDs once they get back to sleep. In this case, SSILD gets the credit when it's clearly just a WBTB success.

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## Verre

> What reasons' could anybody surmise as to why it has stopped working for me, after being the most powerful method I've attempted yet for a week?
> [...]
> There must be some sort of habituation going on here, where the technique becomes another habit. Meditators fall into this problem frequently. Where it ends up being another mental habit with not results. There have got to be ways to tweak it when it stops working.



Same thing here! What brought me back to DV recently was my frustration with a long dry spell. I came across the SSILD and FILD threads and had great initial successes with both, which then quickly tapered off again. I suspect habituation is a big part of it. There must be some way to cultivate the right mental state, but until I figure it out, it's back to the old hour-long WBTBs, I guess!

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## FryingMan

> Also - don't forget - many people report difficulties getting back to sleep after performing SSILD then reports LDs once they get back to sleep. In this case, SSILD gets the credit when it's clearly just a WBTB success.



I tend to belong to this camp of thought on SSILD, not entirely, but most of the way.   If you're awake, intending to lucid dream, and can hang your awareness somewhere so you can do this while you return to sleep, well that's great.   Even if that's all that SSILD is, a particular mental anchor, then it's still something useful!   In the end, does it really matter that "SSILD works" or not as long as the end result is lucidity?   

At the very least, it's a concrete series of steps to place your awareness while falling back to sleep intending to lucid dream.

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## Ctharlhie

> I tend to belong to this camp of thought on SSILD, not entirely, but most of the way.   If you're awake, intending to lucid dream, and can hang your awareness somewhere so you can do this while you return to sleep, well that's great.   Even if that's all that SSILD is, a particular mental anchor, then it's still something useful!   In the end, does it really matter that "SSILD works" or not as long as the end result is lucidity?   
> 
> *At the very least, it's a concrete series of steps to place your awareness while falling back to sleep intending to lucid dream.*



I would refer everyone to another of my threads where I discuss that the question of 'which technique' really doesn't matter compared to intent, but that would be starting to get egotistical.

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## FryingMan

> I would refer everyone to another of my threads where I discuss that the question of 'which technique' really doesn't matter compared to intent, but that would be starting to get egotistical.



I was recently very astonished to read the dream yoga practice section of "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep".   Written in 1998, it mentions what we call in our language: frequent WBTB (every 2 hours), setting strong intention at bedtime to lucid dream and recall dreams and have vivid dreams, day memory review considering the memories as dreams (MILD), quieting the mind before bed, meditation (of course), learning concentration, and using concrete visualizations when falling asleep (WILD -- mental anchors), reviewing dreams upon waking (MILD), feeling joy at experiencing lucid dreams and remembering dreams (positive mindset), and daytime awareness/reflection on the nature of reality as a dream (reflection).

I really had a feeling like "Everything I need to know about LDing, the Tibetans had already been doing for centuries."    Very eye-opening book, I heartily recommend it.

I had two LDs [one was awesome] in the night following reading this section for the first time two nights ago, and very interesting dreams and great recall last night as well, coming out of a bit of a recall dry spell.

It made me realize my intention had been weak/lazy/habitual before.    He emphasizes the intention must be really strong.  I visualize it as my shooting an arrow using a massively powerful bow, shooting my intention "into the night" so that I may encounter it all night long and remember to become lucid.

The day review of memories, considering all as dream, is very powerful as well I think.    I can spend 20 minutes or more just on this step usually.  It's a good workout of memory, too.

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## Bobblehat

> ... but that would be starting to get egotistical.



Oh, how awfully British!

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## FryingMan

> Oh, how awfully British!



Re: "Awfully British": Start at 1:10

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## Martijn0162

It may be asked already but i can't find it: Do I have to wake up after 4 - 5 hours at the beginning of a REM period, already in a REM period, or at the end?

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## ThreeCat

> It may be asked already but i can't find it: Do I have to wake up after 4 - 5 hours at the beginning of a REM period, already in a REM period, or at the end?



It's suggested that you try this after 4-5 hours of sleep, so that REM will be closer at hand.

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## Verre

Okay, so scratch that post I made last night, about how SSILD had stopped working after initial success. Maybe calling it out publicly helped re-establish my motivation, or maybe I just needed an extra-long WBTB to counteract habituation, but last night I had good results again. 





> I would refer everyone to another of my threads where I discuss that the question of 'which technique' really doesn't matter compared to intent, but that would be starting to get egotistical.



On one level I totally agree with this, but "intent" is a slippery beast! I remember learning about first-order and second-order desires, basically "wanting" something versus "wanting to want" something. Yet the motivation needed for LDing (at least for me!) feels like another order entirely. Most nights I _want_ to LD, and I always _want to want_ to LD, but even feeling this way and practicing sincerely I still sometimes end up with long dry spells. 

It feels like the only level of intent that is genuinely effective occurs on a much deeper level that I haven't yet figured out how to reliably harness. So when it comes to comparing techniques, one of the key questions is: which one (or combination of them) best engages the necessary intensity of intent? I guess that's is something that we all have to figure out for ourselves...

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## FryingMan

^^ Yes, finding and forming that deep, true, strong, pure intent is at the heart of success at LDing.   I don't think it's attached to any technique, it's just you!

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## Verre

> ^^ Yes, finding and forming that deep, true, strong, pure intent is at the heart of success at LDing.   I don't think it's attached to any technique, it's just you!



Sometimes I wish it were otherwise. Lucid dreaming teaches you what a jerk your own mind can be! 

(I was tempted to use stronger language but figured this was a family forum...)  :tonguewiggle:

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## FryingMan

> Sometimes I wish it were otherwise. Lucid dreaming teaches you what a jerk your own mind can be!



Yes especially when it doesn't fall back immediately to (lucid!) sleep on command.

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## Elaol

I keep losing focus. I concentrate on sight, then hearing and then touch, just as explained, but on the second cycle my thoughts start to wander, and I never get that sleepy feeling. What am I doing wrong?

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## fogelbise

> I keep losing focus. I concentrate on sight, then hearing and then touch, just as explained, but on the second cycle my thoughts start to wander, and I never get that sleepy feeling. What am I doing wrong?



From your description, it sounds like you are still on the faster cycles when this happens, but either way the following suggestion would be step 1 before the faster cycles and slower cycles. This is nothing official, but I have been using SSILD for over a year and have a hunch on what may help you. The following should make it easier to keep focused on the progression through the cycles. Basically you switch between the senses faster as a kind of warm up to doing the regular faster and slower SSILD cycle. Focus on sight during 2 breaths, hearing during the next 2 breaths, then touch with the next 2 breaths. Repeat several times until it feels almost automatic and then you can progress to the regular 15-20 second fast cycles before going on to the longer ones. You could even try one breath each, but I would say try 2 first. You can also practice during the day, but it sounds like sleepiness is not the problem.

If your mind is starting to wander to thoughts of waking life problems, take a moment to write them down on a to do list or to assure yourself that those problems are already being addressed, whichever is the case.

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## ThreeCat

> From your description, it sounds like you are still on the faster cycles when this happens, but either way the following suggestion would be step 1 before the faster cycles and slower cycles. This is nothing official, but I have been using SSILD for over a year and have a hunch on what may help you. The following should make it easier to keep focused on the progression through the cycles. Basically you switch between the senses faster as a kind of warm up to doing the regular faster and slower SSILD cycle. Focus on sight during 2 breaths, hearing during the next 2 breaths, then touch with the next 2 breaths. Repeat several times until it feels almost automatic and then you can progress to the regular 15-20 second fast cycles before going on to the longer ones. You could even try one breath each, but I would say try 2 first. You can also practice during the day, but it sounds like sleepiness is not the problem.
> 
> If your mind is starting to wander to thoughts of waking life problems, take a moment to write them down on a to do list or to assure yourself that those problems are already being addressed, whichever is the case.



This sounds like great advice to me, but didn't the OP suggest that wandering thoughts were a _good_ sign?  Has user experience suggested otherwise?

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## fogelbise

> This sounds like great advice to me, but didn't the OP suggest that wandering thoughts were a _good_ sign?  Has user experience suggested otherwise?



It sounded like he wasn't able to get to the 2nd and 3rd senses at all, so the wandering thoughts seemed to be too much. I find the waking life worry type of wandering thoughts counter-productive. Perhaps he meant the 2nd or slower cycles were the ones he wasn't able to get to. Now if you start getting the beginning of dreams - those kind of wandering thoughts then you should be approaching sleep and hopefully also getting "that sleepy feeling" he mentioned never getting to. Basically when using SSILD for DILDs, the basic idea is to complete the cycles and doze off.

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## CosmicIron

Let me try to address some of the questions I saw since my last visit here.

"How do I focus on the senses?"

Very simple. Just say this in your head -- "I'm now focusing on ____". Then mentally scan the corresponding directions. For sight, it's the "up" direction. For hearing it's the horizontal direction. And for body it's the vertical direction. You don't need to see, hear, or feel anything. It's the "ritual" that matters.

"How long should I stay awake before doing SSILD"

It depends. If you REALLY want it to succeed then you should become fully awake, but then you may never get back to sleep. You can also stay in your bed and not get up at all and try to chain the exercise upon each subsequent awakening, which tends to be very effective if you practice it well. The thing is, SSILD works by increasing your chance to become lucid, but it does not guarantee success. If it works today, great. If it doesn't, you still a lot of opportunities to try it in your life. That's the attitude SSILD promotes. If you absolutely want success every time, then I suggest you look at some of the WILD methods. But I warn you, a method that theoretically guarantees success doesn't necessarily mean it will apply to you.

"Why has SSILD stopped working"
No definitive answer here. Could be the timing, your physical and mental condition, or the way you perform the technique, and etc. One thing that may be universal though could be intention. Do you intend for it to work this time? How strong? A person who never know what Lucid Dreaming is May have lower chance to become lucid, with every technique. That's intention at work here. 

Here is a tip for all of you, not just those with the questions -- SSILD can put you into a delicate state between reality and dream upon each awakening. There is no apparent line between these two states. You think you are awake? Then you are truly awake. You want to go into your dreams, we'll you can do that too. At this strange stage, you can choose to move your physical body or your dream body. Soon as you move your dream body you are in a dream. If you learn to utilize this special state then you will have 100% success rate, guaranteed. I and some of my friends have learnt to do this naturally, easily shifting the focus from physical to dream, and vice versa. For beginners you can try this -- you wake up from SSILD. You are absolutely certain you are awake. Don't despair. Relax and allow your head to sink into the pillow. Focus on your nose and imagine that you are lifting your hand to pinch it. You probably will feel some weight on your nose and that's great. That sensation will help you. It is the sensation caused by your imaginary fingers pinching it. Once you manage to feel that your fingers have grabbed your nose you can try breathe. If you can breath the you are already in a dream. Don't let go of your fingers,. Keep focusing on them and roll out of your bed. Voila, you are in your dream world. Keep in mind -- I'm not talking about false awakening here. This is real awakening. But if you do what I say, with practice, you may be able to turn these real awakenings into lucid dreams, even AFTER you have physically moved. That's the beauty of SSILD.

"is SSILD just WBTB?"
What isn't.? You need WBTB for just about every techniques. WBTB alone with strong intention may work, but that's more hit and miss. Some people read up on lucid dreaming during WBTB to set up their intentions, and if you wish, you can consider SSILD to be the equivalent of doing that. Treat it like a way to anchor your intentions and nothing more. As long as you are getting the result I'm happy for you  :smiley:  On the other hand, my experience as well as those of many others lead me to believe there is much more to the technique than just a simple intention-setting tool.

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## Avalokiteshvara

I sometimes end up waking after SSILD, but more often than not, like WILD or any other technique, I just end up falling asleep. SSILD does up my recall and dream vividness as seems to be the consensus for others in these forums. 
That's why I recommend even for the skeptics that SSILD could be a powerful booster or leverage towards LD's even if you use other methods.

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## vuduchild

After 1 month trying it, no LD. Strange dreams, but no LD.

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## mitten1997

> You are absolutely certain you are awake. Don't despair. Relax and allow your head to sink into the pillow. Focus on your nose and imagine that you are lifting your hand to pinch it. You probably will feel some weight on your nose and that's great. That sensation will help you. It is the sensation caused by your imaginary fingers pinching it. Once you manage to feel that your fingers have grabbed your nose you can try breathe. If you can breath the you are already in a dream. Don't let go of your fingers,. Keep focusing on them and roll out of your bed. Voila, you are in your dream world.



this sounds like an interesting technique. so you breathe out of your mouth? i find myself waking up from ssild and would like to take advantage of it, can you elaborate on this method?

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## Imaginary

Lately i've been having this chills/shivers that happen to me when trying to SSILD. After WBTB i will go back to bed, lay down, start relaxing and start doing the cycles. As i do more cycles and my trance deepens, in the middle of my back this waves of chills/shivers will start and then sometimes spread up to my head, down my legs or just back area. They feel as if you are slightly cold but the room isn't cold. If i roll on my side and continue to sleep normally, i don't get them, only when i do SSILD.

This has been happening a lot to me for a while now and i have no idea what these chills/shivers mean or if they are some sensation asscociated with how close i am to enter SP, dream or something. I know they are not vibrations for sure, since i had few experiences with vibrations and know how they feel and look like.

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## Bobblehat

I've got a big problem with SSILD. I do use the technique sporadically and I'm fairly surely it improves my dream vividness. I'm also sure cosmic has brought something new to the LD world's table. The problem I have is, nobody can say for sure how it works but everyone seems to accept the current form of the technique as *THE* finalised technique, like it's a finished product. Surely if we're not sure how something really works that leaves room for improvement and we should all be tweaking/experimenting like mad? Cosmic did a lot of the development of SSILD and experimenting on a Chinese language forum but I'm left with the feeling that we, at dreamviews, are not privy to the experimenting that's gone on - we're only left with the final, "perfected" version.

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## FryingMan

Not everybody, look through this thread and elsewhere on the forums you'll find lots of variants.    LDing is all about adapting approaches to yourself.  I used SSILD as one of my bag-of-tricks techniques to calming my mind and displacing thoughts in order to approach sleep.    In doing so I usually only  spend 1 breath on each of the 3 senses.     By using a "one breath" switch I can avoid the (even tiny) mental activity required to determine if it's time to switch yet.     For me, maintaining awareness is not the issue, it's getting to sleep, so this works for me.

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## CosmicIron

> I've got a big problem with SSILD. I do use the technique sporadically and I'm fairly surely it improves my dream vividness. I'm also sure cosmic has brought something new to the LD world's table. The problem I have is, nobody can say for sure how it works but everyone seems to accept the current form of the technique as *THE* finalised technique, like it's a finished product. Surely if we're not sure how something really works that leaves room for improvement and we should all be tweaking/experimenting like mad? Cosmic did a lot of the development of SSILD and experimenting on a Chinese language forum but I'm left with the feeling that we, at dreamviews, are not privy to the experimenting that's gone on - we're only left with the final, "perfected" version.



I totally agree that more experiments are needed in order to improve the technique, and I'd never claim the current version is final and "perfected". As for why and how it works I feel that all theories are essentially hypothesis until science understands what lucid dreaming really is, and that applies to just about all techniques. Therefore, even though there are no lack of people who claim to know exactly how the technique works, I have always told them to keep an open mind and consider other possibilities.





> Lately i've been having this chills/shivers that happen to me when trying to SSILD. After WBTB i will go back to bed, lay down, start relaxing and start doing the cycles. As i do more cycles and my trance deepens, in the middle of my back this waves of chills/shivers will start and then sometimes spread up to my head, down my legs or just back area. They feel as if you are slightly cold but the room isn't cold. If i roll on my side and continue to sleep normally, i don't get them, only when i do SSILD.
> 
> This has been happening a lot to me for a while now and i have no idea what these chills/shivers mean or if they are some sensation asscociated with how close i am to enter SP, dream or something. I know they are not vibrations for sure, since i had few experiences with vibrations and know how they feel and look like.




I've had similar sensations coupled with slight sinking sensations. Usually at this point I know I'm getting close.

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## Verre

> Surely if we're not sure how something really works that leaves room for improvement and we should all be tweaking/experimenting like mad?



Straight-up SSILD worked great for me the first few times, but shortly afterwards habituation set in and thwarted my success. I think I get habituated to techniques way too easily! (For instance, FILD worked for me literally _once_, the very first time, but not on a single occasion after that. My mind was like, "Whatever. Fingers. Got it. Going to sleep now.") 

I've actually kept a form of SSILD in my arsenal, but with a tweak. Now I implement the senses-scanning rotation as a form of seated meditation practice at the very end of a long WBTB, just before returning to bed and performing my usual WILD techniques. I have the impression that this addition perhaps does improve my success rate, or at least certainly doesn't do any harm. I'm not sure if CosmicIron would approve, but in the end we all just have to fiddle around and figure out what works best for us. 

I also think it's totally awesome that the DV community has a counterpart in China!

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## F4hmi

trying this technique in the morning, aaaand real wake up with crossed vision (crossed eyes too for a few minutes)

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## 2Jupes

Man, huge thanks for this thread. The technique reminds me of the noting meditation I sometimes do during the day. On my first night I did it at bed time, knowing I have early REM, and it inspired my first dream about trying to mutually WILD with a friend. Then I had an insane false awakening where my normally reserved infant son was screaming in his co-sleeper next to me and then started yelling words at me. That and the fuzzy body feeling I have in FA made me lucid. 

It was pitch black and an awesome chance to use some new reframing ideas to generate a dream scene. Aside from a three second DILD, I hadn't had a powerful DILD in two weeks and was getting down about it. I am so excited about this method and I think it will help with WILD as well. The dreamlets I see while falling asleep are much more intense. Twice, I even somehow noticed I was snoring while still conscious. May have been a dream but if it was it stopped as soon as I noticed.

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## lagoon

Hi, I just tried this method yesterday after about 5 hours of sleep. I had a terrible experience for some reason. I also used the revised version from the link. I did all my cycles and when I tried falling back asleep I just couldn't. It wasn't a FA because I did reality check every once in a while and u couldn't get back to sleep for 1.5 hours. Any suggestions?

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## FryingMan

For me (and others who wake up fast with any mental activity), it's important to keep a really quiet, dreamy mind while doing SSILD, or else it can just really wake you up.   Keep relaxing all the time while doing SSILD, maintain some attention to how drowsy you're feeling, if you start to feel too awake, immediately stop the cycles and aim directly for sleep.

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## lagoon

The weird thing is that while I'm doing the cycles I don't feel awake at all but as soon as I get into the "I'm gonna go to sleep now" mode my mind just goes crazy and I can't fall asleep.

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## Kuyarei

How can i use this to only induce ld's? i don't want to get an OBE.

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## bigbudf92

Good stuff man, tried this last night after 4.5 hours sleep and it worked very well. However, I was disappointed to be woken up by an external noise  :Sad:  I tried it again after that, but couldn't get back to sleep. As FryingMan said:





> maintain some attention to how drowsy you're feeling, if you start to feel too awake, immediately stop the cycles and aim directly for sleep.



I will be sure to keep this in mind in future!

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## AstralMango

Might come back to this when I'm feeling better. I don't have the energy to try other techniques.  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Wow this thread was dead until the one post of 2015 above. That's too bad as I really feel when combined with day practices, SSILD gave me a lot of momentum when I was starting out and for a long time after. 





> How can i use this to only induce ld's? i don't want to get an OBE.



For me it has produced mostly DILDs in the middle of normal dreams. I haven't had many OBE-like experiences period and I have gotten most of my LD's during nights using SSILD.

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## DreamLord1

OBE's are nothing to be afraid of. I was terrified of them at one point, but then i actually had one, and it was awesome. The key is just to trust in your control of the dream, and your subconscious will respond with an uneventful OBE. Hope it helps.

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## DreamLord1

I tried SSILD a few months ago, and it worked for me! However, i don't really like DILD's, so is their a way to use this as a WILD technique? Like, can the cycles induce HG? :Uhm:

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## RelaxAndDream

Wow... i´ve read about SSILD yesterday before i wanted to go to sleep but even if it was late i couldn´t resist to read the updated edition in your link. I kind of liked the idea because like 2Jupes already said it reminded me on meditating or an awarness technique. I´ve noted the easy instructions on a little piece of paper and go to sleep. I got to bed at 1 am after recapitulating detailed my day (an exercice i do to better remember my dreams and i think it helps falling asleep because you dispute with your thoughts _before_ you go to bed) i put up an alarm 6h later (7 am). After the alarm i stand up and went to the bathroom. After that i sit for like five minutes in my bed and analyse my surroundings and my bodyfeelings (RC-Style). About 10 or 15min after the alarm i lay on my back (normally i sleep on my site) and startet the cycles. First some fast ones then some slow ones. I noticed sometimes that i drifted away or begin to hear something etc. but i finished them without falling asleep (i am kind of the guy who didn´t fall asleep accidentally by watching tv or something. If i deside to watch something even if i´m tierd i watch so long till my eyes blob out because of drieness or i deside to go to sleeping...) then i turned on my site and tried to fall asleep but i did some more cycles with less attantion/effort. i´ve needed to turn on the other side because i didn´t fall asleep just like that. I noticed now and then that i drift away but i think i was to aware of whats happening and in the analyser mode so i get a litte awake of it every time. I think this is kind of practice to notice but dont get awake by it. 
I then kind of fall asleep but it was very confusing. I think i woke up once and had a SP (first time) wanted to do an RC but couldnt move my arm at first. I did the RC and fall asleep again (but i am not 100% sure i was really awake or just dreamed of the SP...) Then i had a dream where i was in my room blabla but didnt get lucid by it but it was just a short one and i think i woke up after it (everything really fuzzy when i was rly awake and when i was dreaming...). Anyway i then had a dream where i was behind a house with a garden and i don´t know why but i decided to lay down on the grass and sleep (i think subconsciously i still was trying to fall asleep so i can have a LD xD) Now i am not sure again if i woke up but i think i had another dream where i was in a school with a friend blabla. Anyway i woke up again in the garden and THEN have the aha moment where i was sure i have to be in a dream. I did my nose pinch RC witch failed for the first time. I think because of the whole confusing am i dreaming or not and wake and not awake and RC with my real hand and RC just about thinking using my hand... however i counted my finger then and was sure. it was pretty funny. I talked to some DC and funny thing is everytime i asked them a question they needed like 3 seconds before they answered just like my subconcious needed to think about the apropriate answer... 
-is this normal or is it because i am uncreative in RL so this "Creative task" needed some time because my brain isn´t used to do something like this?
i´ve then tried to fly away (i did it once before actively) but i fell on my stomach xD I said to myself "Come on you can do this it´s just about attitude. and i startet to float kind of in one direction (superman-style but with both arms to the front...) and then began to fly at the beginning to slowly for my taste so again i said to myself i just want to want it and fly faster. But i kind of didn´t like the setting because all the buildings looked down, cheep and like in a rly poor country. I thought about spinning a new scenario because i think i could fly for long and it wouldn´t change?
But i´ve decided to land and go to one house and said when i know a beautiful woman will open...aaaand she did  :smiley:  it gets a little dirty from here on so i will reduce it to the minimum. However a second woman arrived and i dont know where the third one came from but i kind of had the feeling i should have known her or she was from the beginning there (i know she wasn´t) however she was then pissed that there are 2 other women and i fucked up and woke up. 
The lesson of this is don´t be to greedy/megalomaniac... one would have been more then enough i think... i was a little sad after i woke up because i kind of don´t wanted to hurt this one girl even if i don´t know who she was afterwards just the feeling she was some kind of important to me...

nevertheless really nice LD with new control level while i was with this two women i remembered that i wanted to push my hand/my body through a solid wall so i pushed my thumb into the window bord and it relented. Kind of nice  :smiley: 
another nice thing is that i´ve heard some music. In the dream where i was in the school and after the wakening in the garden near that house. This is new because before i never heard music in my dreams so that i notice...
i also looked at the wall of the house and the strukture was really really detailed. 

i think it has to do with the technique because you focus on your senses in cycles so you subconsciously do it in your dream too and are more aware of your surroundings and sounds and so on.
i also had the feeling that my critical awareness was higher than usual. Even in the first dream where was in my room and in the school there was this "hmm feeling" but it was not strong enough at the beginning.

After the LD i did some more cycles because i wanted to try if i could have another LD but i think i was too upset because of the one girl... so i had problems relaxing. I had a NLD where my tooth hurt and wiggled a bit. I knew something about was not right but it wasn´t enough to get lucid by it. 

But i see for sure the potential of this technique with more practice so the awareness gets even higher and you get critical earlier. And i think it needs practice to the feelings before falling asleep so you can work better with it. and i kind of saw a potential to WILD with this. (although i am a noob, but i could imagine to use it as an anchor)


Questions:
-It is possible to dream about SP right? 

-How do you do RC without moving? Because if i am nearly dream and i am not sure if i still awake or alrdy in FA i want to do an RC but if am am still awake and move my arm for example i would do a step backwards to falling asleep? I´ve tried the "think about how your room looks why you are here and where you been five minutes ago" but i think it kind of don´t work when i am in between the worlds?!

-Is it possible to lay down in a Dream to fall asleep and don´t have an FA or something but a "normal" Dream in the Dream and after Dreaming it waking up again in the previous dream?! O.o or did i dream the one dream before the other and just think it was in the dream and not before? 

- is there a good thread about sleep pattern? How to determin my REM-Phases etc? Is this consistent? Like always after 5h i start an new REM-phase etc?
i startet 6h after getting to bed. what would have been if i would start 5 or 4 or maby 7 h later? is there a correlation like the sooner the... 
i can´t find anything about this here? would be nice to know how my sleep works.

THANK you and i hope to get some nice answers. i will keep on trying this technique and will let you know how it works for me.

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## robot that is lucid

Will this technique work with a fan in the room? Or a (sleeping) animal in the bed?

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## TDHXIII

> Will this technique work with a fan in the room? Or a (sleeping) animal in the bed?



From what i know, yeah it will work. The important part is focusing on the senses during the cycles.

That aside.
I tried this technique today at 2 attempts, but this tech got me wandering into sleep right after 1 short cycle. I guess next time then.

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## Stintman

I'm going to try this out tonight. Wish me luck!

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## DreamLord1

Worked on my first try. I was in a really vivid FA, lamenting the failure of my attempt, when i remembered that SSILD tends to cause a lot of FAs. So, plugged my nose, and to to my surprise drew a breath.

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## DreamLord1

Two nights, two successes. One only a second long, the other 10 minutes. But both were the most vivid things I have ever experienced. Both were FAs. And both had the highest level of lucidity I have ever had. SSILD works, people. It broke a 6 month long dryspell for me. Unfortunately, I discovered that I need serious practice with my dream control. I was practically a god last year, but I've lost my touch.

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## AstralMango

Whoa, congrats on both the successes! :'D

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## DreamLord1

For the past several weeks I've been using SSILD on-and-off and have found a few interesting tricks that I thought everybody should know.

1) For best results, time the alarm to be near the start of a REM cycle. Why? SSILD sort of works by causing you to put a significant amount of attention on the small stuff(sight, sound, somatosensory(touch)). The closer you are to a REM cycle, the more likely it is for the SSILD to work correctly(this applies to all techniques that use WBTB). Though the exact wake up time varies by as much as 30 minutes from person to person, a wake-up time of 5 1/2 hours after the time you fall asleep is in the right ballpark. However, you will have to experiment slightly to find the optimum time for you.

2) Use a top 40 or some other non-talk show alarm (don't use beeper unless absolutely neccessary). Why? I found that if I timed the alarm correctly--and it was talk show or something--unless the volume was obscenely high, the dream would just sort of incorporate the human voices. Music, however, I found was a lot better at interrupting the flow of the dream, because It would attract my attention. The better the alarm is at interrupting the flow of the dream, the more likely you are to wake up, because it draws your attention away from the dream. The days I used a talk-show alarm, the radio would stay on for an hour until I reached the end of the REM cycle, at which point I would promptly wake up. The disadvantage of this is that you would be attempting SSILD at the start of what is likely going to be more than 30 minutes of NREM. Finally, unless you sleep like a stone, don't use one of those obnoxious beeping alarms. That gets me wide awake, and I can't fall asleep for like half an hour. Of course, this might not apply to you, but you should keep it in mind.

3) Do not skip the 4-6 "Practice rounds"  at the beginning. Although you could use as few as 1 or as many as a 100, do not skip them! It's usually quite hard to actually get the cycles started if you go straight for the 30-second ones. And those are the most crucial of the technique.

4) WBTB time should be long enough for you to turn off your alarm and gather your thoughts, but not significantly longer. Why? Longer WBTB times tend to make it more difficult to fall asleep, so you would be sitting for like 20 minutes doing the cycles again and again, instead of LDing. Also, loss of sleep. Long WBTBs are not necessary or even recommendable for SSILD, and in the long run they just cause loss of sleep. The previous points also mean that you should set your goals before falling asleep the previous day, just to prevent having a longer WBTB time.

These four points have given me and my friends consistent results, and I do believe they should work(with proper adjustments) for most other people. Also, my comments about timing the attempt also apply to most other techniques that depend on WBTB(one particular example that I have tried successfully is FILD). I have not yet tried supplements with SSILD, but I do believe that cosmiciron said something about not using supplements with SSILD. Well, that's all I have to say on the matter.

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## Guido13

After one month of WBTB combined with MILD, more than a hundred recorded dreams and no lucidity I decided to try SSILD. On the second night I had a solid LD. Did 2 times a RC to be absolutely sure (first time ever I breathed trough my blocked nose...funny feeling!). This works (for me...now).
Guido

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## FryingMan

^^ was it a WILD, FA, or a DILD?

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## Guido13

Well.., this is the dream, it had three parts:
I am lying in bed, and there is earth in it...I think my son must have left this. It seems to become more and more and it doesn't help that I try to remove it. Black, very fine earth. In trying to remove it, I almost fall out of bed...
Suddenly I realise that I am dreaming and I am in a big space where a film is being projected on the wall, showing people in conversation. The whole scene is enveloped in this special intense light, as if coming from the inside of the people being shown. The film is now projected on two walls at the same time and there are like 20 people sitting in chairs before me, looking at the film with their backs towards me. I am delighted, and I shout: 'I am lucid, I am lucid!', but then I calm myself down a little because I don't want to get too excited and wake up. I do a RC by pushing my finger into the palm of my hand...does not work! then I try to blow trough my nose, blocking the nostrils, and this works! I do it again to be absolutely sure, and it works. In the public I see two attractive ladies, and I wish they would come to me, but they don't and leave the room after the film is finished. I only see them on the back: one has long blond hair, and the other one short and curly. I sound 'A' to start my usual meditation, and some wonderful sight manifests in the room [I do not give details...not supposed to by my teacher!].
Then I am back in an ordinary dream: next day in the workplace, trying to tell people how wonderful my dream was...nobody was particularly interested.

I think that the first part looks a little bit like a FA.

Greetings,
guido

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## itsok

CosmicIron
Are you a hungarian guy?If so,pls reply here and i want to give you my mail.
Your blog is on hungarian page, so ..

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## RelaxAndDream

He was not online here since 2012. he wont answer you. maybe you try to contact him over his blog or something

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## itsok

Thanks for the info, Relax, i cant see the details, since im from my tablet, i cant like, cant see the likes and the details next for the users name.I was surprised,coz i opened his blog(topic opening comment), and that is a hungarian blog :smiley: 
But there is an update in the opening post from '13,but maybe thats a moderator update,i dunno.

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## TDHXIII

Tried it on a nap.. Interesting results and very similar to when i accidentally WILD into NREM at the start of the night.

I did the cycles then tried to sleep but i didn't lose my consciousness for some reason.
After a while of trying to sleep and after catching several illogical thoughts, _that_ happened.. "A loud buzzing noise and the happy hallucinations" package.. Surprised, i quickly tried to calm down, i suspected i was in Atonia or SP already.. I know that i should ignore hallucinations, but i wasn't even expecting them to happen to begin with. Nothing happened as i layed in there waiting for a dream. So i tried doing something.

Onto what really matters, i tried going into a dream through visualizations. Either a picture showed up by itself or i made it appear. Whatever it was, i ended up inside it. What i experienced was a false awakening of some type. I was in my bed, i fell out of my bed but the cover was still stuck in my head, covering essentially 60% of my vision. Frustrated, i tried taking it off, i pulled it and pulled it away, it never ended. I could barely control my body and my vision was very blurry, a very typical NREM dream, extremely unstable as i think it was. A few very confusing things happened after this.. I woke up at the end of it. 

Still confused whether this counts as a lucid dream or if it was a dreamlet. I think it was an NREM dream. The only doubt about it is that it's been 6 hours since i initially woke up, isn't REM available at such a time anyway? It could have been a normal unstable dream, but i don't even know as this was the first time i succeeded in entering one after a WILD anyway.

Good thing anyway, i'll be holding onto this more. It looks like my method of dream entrance should be visualization since i'm kinda good at it. I was expecting a DILD, but i'm fine that i got a WILD instead. 

Success? I think so.

Also, i almost forgot. When i were doing the cycles, i decided to cover my eyes.. Right after i did that my eyes started twitching very quickly for some reason and they twitched for around a minute.. That was weird.

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## smoke_1966

> Congratulations! What you described -- prioritizing on falling asleep instead of the cycles, is the perfect way to do SSILD. Now that you got the hang of it you will see more successes down the road for sure!



been reading this thread for a week ,had 1 FA and 1 semi lucid first night , could be the placebo effect
but happy so far .I usually turn on my side to fall asleep but lie on my back for any type of wild or meditation and feel like a get a good relaxing almost to the point of vibration on my back from ssild.

I believe from what you say that I should probably continue on attempting SSILD on my side.

would you agree with that ?

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## RelaxAndDream

i for my part do it most of the time like this: on my back short and long cycles then turn to side slowly with as less effort as possible and repeat some more long cylcles with less attention so i fall asleep while doing them

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## Spock

> on my back short and long cycles then turn to side slowly with as less effort as possible and repeat some more long cylcles with less attention so i fall asleep while doing them



Yep, me too!

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## Chocodile

Hi!
Yesterday night I've tried this technique, it was totally new for me (even if sometimes when I have problems to falling to sleep I use a similar technique, but I never  spotted the relation with the LDs). I had a very strange experience:

I woke up in the middle of the night after some hours of sleep, I've done the cycles (brief and normal ones) but i think I got caught up in some kind of hypnagogic hallucinations or maybe a dream itself. Basically at some point I was convinced of doing the cycles but I was actually seeing images of planets and galaxies, traveling back and forth between them. For the all time that I was seeing these things I was actually convinced that I was awake doing the normal cycles before getting into sleep, just like it happens when you see or do something odd in a dream but in the narrative of the dream itself is a perfectly normal thing.

At some point I saw the word "sleep" in my visual field, and I moved it in a infinite symbol shape hoping that this could help me to relax and finally fall asleep. It was a feeling quite intense, and I actually woke up from this dream/hypnagogic state, hearing a loud noise in my right ear (a mixture between a scratchy noise and a popping one, like when there is a changing of pressure on a plane for example, but louder), and feeling almost all my body caught up in vibrations.
I've tried to relax and get back to sleep but it only woke me up. 
I've done the Reality checks but I was really awake. Sadly I didn't had any LD during the night, I think that I was awake for part of the night (I've kept doing RC regularly to be sure of it) or if I was sleeping I don't remember the dreams, which is something odd because I always remember my dreams.
I've also tried the technique this afternoon for a quick nap but still no luck, I will try again this night.
I feel that there is a real potential with the SSILD, I hope I will be luckier this night and the next ones.

A couple of questions, that are not clear to me: is it better to do only one induction per night (meaning a whole set of 4-6 brief cycles and 3-4 normal cycles), and whatever happens just go to sleep and hope for the best? Or to do the cycles until fall asleep?
And also, is it better do it one time per night, or multiple times if, like in my case, someone is used to woke up multiple times during the night?

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## MadzAssassin

Gonna try this tonight! Wish me luckzzz

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## RelaxAndDream

> Hi!
> Yesterday night I've tried this technique, it was totally new for me (even if sometimes when I have problems to falling to sleep I use a similar technique, but I never  spotted the relation with the LDs). I had a very strange experience:
> 
> I woke up in the middle of the night after some hours of sleep, I've done the cycles (brief and normal ones) but i think I got caught up in some kind of hypnagogic hallucinations or maybe a dream itself. Basically at some point I was convinced of doing the cycles but I was actually seeing images of planets and galaxies, traveling back and forth between them. For the all time that I was seeing these things I was actually convinced that I was awake doing the normal cycles before getting into sleep, just like it happens when you see or do something odd in a dream but in the narrative of the dream itself is a perfectly normal thing.
> 
> At some point I saw the word "sleep" in my visual field, and I moved it in a infinite symbol shape hoping that this could help me to relax and finally fall asleep. It was a feeling quite intense, and I actually woke up from this dream/hypnagogic state, hearing a loud noise in my right ear (a mixture between a scratchy noise and a popping one, like when there is a changing of pressure on a plane for example, but louder), and feeling almost all my body caught up in vibrations.
> I've tried to relax and get back to sleep but it only woke me up. 
> I've done the Reality checks but I was really awake. Sadly I didn't had any LD during the night, I think that I was awake for part of the night (I've kept doing RC regularly to be sure of it) or if I was sleeping I don't remember the dreams, which is something odd because I always remember my dreams.
> I've also tried the technique this afternoon for a quick nap but still no luck, I will try again this night.
> ...




Your attempt sounds pretty promising. dont know if it was HH or really a dream with your planets but what you describe after waking the hearing of stuff. thats good you can go from there directly into a dream. dont move dont play attention to it just focus your intent that and stay aware so when the dream starts you notice. you can think about the previous dream too.

you can try motionless RC. like closing your throat/trachea (like when one sniff back ones snot) and try breathing or you might try to levitate or something. so if you are still awake you dont ruin your attempt and are more awake again. 

with me ssild gives me a lucid or atleast very vivid detailed dreams  :smiley: 

to your questions:

-i for my part do it most of the time like this: on my back short and long cycles then turn to side slowly with as less effort as possible and repeat some more long cylcles with less attention so i fall asleep while doing them
--> aim is here to really fall asleep so do the  cycles with a minimum of effort just that you dont start thinking random staff and pass out unconscious. but when you fall asleep really fast afterwards you might dont need to do them while falling asleep... 

-in my opinion ssild costs some effort because you need to be awake enough and the cycles need some time. i did it multiple times a night already. there is nothing wrong with it as long as you have enough time to sleep and can concentrate on it. 

there is no right or wrong this is a "basic technique" you can fit into your needs and lifestyle. some people do just the short cyclyes some people stay with one sense like seeing. 
Try yourself out and note the results. i did this and felt that and the result was that. next day same but different and so on. so you get more intimate with your sleep and falling asleep that is important  :smiley: 






> Gonna try this tonight! Wish me luckzzz



Good Luck  :tongue2:

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## Chocodile

> Your attempt sounds pretty promising. dont know if it was HH or really a dream with your planets but what you describe after waking the hearing of stuff. thats good you can go from there directly into a dream. dont move dont play attention to it just focus your intent that and stay aware so when the dream starts you notice. you can think about the previous dream too.
> 
> you can try motionless RC. like closing your throat/trachea (like when one sniff back ones snot) and try breathing or you might try to levitate or something. so if you are still awake you dont ruin your attempt and are more awake again. 
> 
> with me ssild gives me a lucid or atleast very vivid detailed dreams 
> 
> to your questions:
> 
> -i for my part do it most of the time like this: on my back short and long cycles then turn to side slowly with as less effort as possible and repeat some more long cylcles with less attention so i fall asleep while doing them
> ...



Thank you very much for your advices, I'll try them! 
I've tried to remain still and calm after waking up from the "vision" of the galaxies, but this days I'm so excited by this technique that I can barely contain the enthusiasm, so I'll try to be quieter the next time that happens  :smiley: 

I've tried the SSILD again the past night. I had a LD but what happened it was a very strange and new experience to me: during an usual dream I found myself in a bathroom of an old building, at some point I became lucid (I don't remember if something in particular triggered it or if it just happened) but then I became aware of my body in the real world.
I'm not sure if I was aware of it for the whole time and the dream itself was some prolonged HH like the night before, or if I became aware of it just after gaining lucidity (it's hard to explain or even realise it), but at that point I was in my bed, with my eyelids still closed and the dream I was having it was similar to a projection on my closed eyelids. It also became an old black and white movie, similar the ones of the world wars.

This is something new to me, I was living only the visual experience of the dream in a very clear and detailed way, like watching a movie (but not with my mind's eye as when day dreaming), while becoming aware of my physical body. Also, the black and white thing is new, I've always dreamt in colours, I don't know if it was some way with which my mind tried to make sense of the fact that I was "watching a dream" with closed eyes.

Furthermore when I woke up in the middle of the night, after one of the dreams, I also had auditory hallucinations, like if someone was speaking to me (I've done a RC just to make sure that it wasn't just a FA), sadly I don't remember what the voices were saying.

Very strange and interesting! It seems like that I have to calibrate better the sensory systems, or something like that, but surely this technique is having an effect on my dream consciousness and I'm very happy to continue to experiment with it.

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## Elpis

I've always been shy of really using this because im living in a noisy environment (major road right next to me).. but the success of others in this thread is intrigueing. how are my chances? should I try to blend out all the traffic noise? should i embrace it? any tips?

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## ThreeCat

Earplugs and embrace.  It's a good technique,  use well, enjoy.

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## Shockabsorber

I've been reading this thread for a little bit (only on page 4) and have been using the technique for the past two weeks. Last night I had two lucids. One was a FA, which I cought with a RC (a first for me). I find it a great technique for me so far as I naturally wake up in the night but don't like to do a full WBTB as it can lead to me not being able to fall back asleep. I have been simply getting confortable when I awake and going through the steps until I fall asleep. It has the added benefit for me of helping me fall back asleep. Thank you OP.

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## Laslappas

Wow, I tried SSILD this afternoon and had, I don't know exactly how many LDs... it was like my mind was super mindful and I could recognize the dream state as I was completely awake. I tried the nose RC and could feel my breathe flowing normally even though my nose was completely close... incredible..first attempt great success... thanks Iron

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## Laslappas

Today my second success...I'd say a DILD obtained thanks to the SSILD cicles done just before my afternoon nap. In my dream i was trying to get asleep in a terrace on the fifth floor and thought that would have been much better to stay on the ground floor to not risk to fall from the balcony, when out of the blue, I realized I was dreaming and then I threw myself from the terrace becoming immediately lucid...wow.. I put my finger through the other hand tasting the beautiful sensation to be ...pierceable ahahahahha

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## Laslappas

I'm using this technique  yet and I can say that it works each time I use it. 
I think it works because it makes me more aware during the follow dream.
For example, last night I dreamed about a my friend who told me "oh my god how is it you are so tired?"
"why" I asked,
"you seem to be sleeping"
"bu I AM sleeping" I repied...
Then I went to a place very distant from there and then, when I was about to go back to the prior location I realised that it was very distant fron there, almost half hour walking.
So I told myself "I will open my arms and fly to the place"..
Once I opened my arm, I felt I wasdreaming and that those weren't my "real " arms, then I clapt my hands and become completely lucid.
My lucidity will last half hour and i was completely aware...
So I think that now I can dream bein aware of my situation when I was about to fall asleep, that's the magic.

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## Oneirin

I tried the SSILD technique last night and had success! Since I had a few shots throughout the night, it seems that performing the cycles laying on my back worked best.  The experience of this LD definitely had characteristics of a typical OBE experience - begging in a life-like recreation of a portion of my home - yet began with a suddden heightened sense of awareness within a 'dream state'. I would say it very closely resembled many of my WILDs in the past. 
A questions I had was that of short experiences - is it common for people to wake after 30 seconds, or experience shorter LDs with this technique?

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## fogelbise

> A questions I had was that of short experiences - is it common for people to wake after 30 seconds, or experience shorter LDs with this technique?



Oneirin: No, not at all, but even when you do think you are waking up, watch out for those false awakenings! @Laslappas - Nice! It sounds like you are taking to SSILD like I did. I still use it half the time after WBTB.

Edit: I guess if your first experiment with SSILD coincides with a short LD (coincidence only), it can affect your schema. See the first link in by signature, just in case. Even though you are definitely not a newbie, it can be a helpful reminder to even the more experienced.  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Hi everyone !
I'm here because I discovered the SSILD technique yesterday and I tried it, first you need to know that I never had any LDs I'm keeping a DJ since last week and I tried WBTB / MILD techniques during this week.
I wanted to use SSILD to do a DILD because I read that WILDs were difficult to do as a begginer so I started the cycle and pretty fast I feel my heartbeat going up and my breathe changing so I kept doing the cycle and I started seeing images but I think the problem is here I read that a lot of people are seeing one image and they can do something like zoom in but I saw like flashes and different images and I tried to focus on one of them but when I did that I felt that I was awake so I tried to calm down a little bit and did the cycle again but the same thing happened I feel like I'm losing control when images starts to come in my mind have you any suggestion or am I doing something wrong ?

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## Habba

> Hi everyone !
> I'm here because I discovered the SSILD technique yesterday and I tried it, first you need to know that I never had any LDs I'm keeping a DJ since last week and I tried WBTB / MILD techniques during this week.
> I wanted to use SSILD to do a DILD because I read that WILDs were difficult to do as a begginer so I started the cycle and pretty fast I feel my heartbeat going up and my breathe changing so I kept doing the cycle and I started seeing images but I think the problem is here I read that a lot of people are seeing one image and they can do something like zoom in but I saw like flashes and different images and I tried to focus on one of them but when I did that I felt that I was awake so I tried to calm down a little bit and did the cycle again but the same thing happened I feel like I'm losing control when images starts to come in my mind have you any suggestion or am I doing something wrong ?



I've recently started doing SSILD, you must not focus, relax yourself, and just let it happen. You will know its working when your mind starts to wonder, if your mind wanders, pull it back and finish what you have left and fall asleep as quick as possible.

I had some progress last night, woke up at 5 hours of sleep, done SSILD fell asleep quite fast then I ended up in a false awakening later on.

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## Raziiel

> I've recently started doing SSILD, you must not focus, relax yourself, and just let it happen. You will know its working when your mind starts to wonder, if your mind wanders, pull it back and finish what you have left and fall asleep as quick as possible.
> 
> I had some progress last night, woke up at 5 hours of sleep, done SSILD fell asleep quite fast then I ended up in a false awakening later on.




How can I do the cycle I mean look at the colours ear sounds and feel things in my body without focusing on it ?
And is it normal to feel my heartbeat goes up ?
Do I need to use mantra while doing it like "when I dream I realize that I dream" ?

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## Habba

> How can I do the cycle I mean look at the colours ear sounds and feel things in my body without focusing on it ?
> And is it normal to feel my heartbeat goes up ?
> Do I need to use mantra while doing it like "when I dream I realize that I dream" ?



No, don't use a mantra unless you're trying to WILD or MILD. Look on the blackness behind your eyes, if you see images or patterns, jusy simply observe it. Same with feeling and hearing.

Yes, heartbeat is normal when one is falling asleep.

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## Raziiel

Ok thank you so I need to stop doing the cycle before sleeping ?
Because when I did it I felt like it was impossible to sleep while doing it, I kept seeing images and I was awake I knew it.
By the way I feel like it's the same with every techniques, I tried MILD but when I try to fall asleep while thinking of my mantra I basically cant sleep.

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## Habba

> Ok thank you so I need to stop doing the cycle before sleeping ?
> Because when I did it I felt like it was impossible to sleep while doing it, I kept seeing images and I was awake I knew it.
> By the way I feel like it's the same with every techniques, I tried MILD but when I try to fall asleep while thinking of my mantra I basically cant sleep.



Last night, I found that's it's best to fall asleep while doing the cycles. You might of had a false awakening, did you do a reality check?

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## RelaxAndDream

then try to adjust your focus. as i did my cycles i did it this way: i did a WBTB so i felt the right amount of wakefulness so i dont fall sleep immediately with the touch of the pillow but not to awake to not fall asleep at all. no daytime worries or thought should come up, all you shout focus and have in your mind should be your last dreams you recall and lucid dreaming intention you want to have after your wbtb. i normally sleep on my side. so i lay down on my back.i breath deep and slowly similar like you would when you sleep. i relax my body, with every breath i "fall deeper into the bed" and more tension of my muscles release.i then start the cycles. fist some fast ones then the longer ones. i dont count time or something just do it naturally.  like josh already said dont evaluate or expect something. just cycle. when you "see" dont move your eyes just watch the back of your eyelids. when you hear just listen what there is. it might be nothing or  the street or your breathing or a fan or the refrigerator. dont focus on something just "hear". then you feel. feel your body on the matress or your hands or the blanket on your body. and again dont evaluate the feeling just observe it and notice the fact there is. 
after i finished the cycles i turn as slowly and with minimum movement to my side so i can fall asleep. i continue doing my cylcles but this time with less effort and less focus. i drift off but in the end fall asleep while doing the cycle and not thinking about lucid dreaming day time problems or anything. i just am in the moment and conscious and drift to sleep.

same with mantras. when i do mantras i do them at the beginning with more concentration. i tell the words clearly and consciously in my mind. after some time when i see that i set my intention and am focused i let off a little of the focus and the effort. i start to "mumble" when you want to call it like that. i let go and now WANT to fall asleep (but dont focus on it because then again you wont fall asleep). after some time i dont do the mantra actively or consciously and its more like an echo in the back of my head. with this i fall sleep and again the last thing i think of or did is to set my intention.

in all the books is written "your last thought should be your mantra or lucid dreaming while falling asleep" this is how you do it. you let go slowly until you drift to sleep. when you focus to much you cant fall asleep when you are not focused enough at the beginning your thoughts drift of after some seconds or minutes and you fall asleep unconsciously with thoughts about some fantasy, daytime worries, work/school, or more general the past or the future without active intention in lucid dreaming instead of beeing in the moment and notice what is and observe while you/ your body fall asleep and have a strong intention in being lucid.

and when you feel your heartbeat going up it might be because you are to exited about what might happen. you constantly evaluate and wait for something to happen. everytime you see something you get to excited and wake yourself up. just be equanimous and be in the present moment. dont worry or be to excited what will be or was just be and observe... (sounds super cliche and zen but actually its all about that)

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## Raziiel

> Last night, I found that's it's best to fall asleep while doing the cycles. You might of had a false awakening, did you do a reality check?



Yeah I did some reality checks and I was awake but one time I breathed while pinching my nose and the air entered a little bit, I thought I was doing it wrong so I did it again and the I wasn't able to breathe maybe I woke up between the 2 I dont know  :Sad:

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## fogelbise

> Hi everyone !
> I'm here because I discovered the SSILD technique yesterday and I tried it, first you need to know that I never had any LDs I'm keeping a DJ since last week and I tried WBTB / MILD techniques during this week.
> I wanted to use SSILD to do a DILD because I read that WILDs were difficult to do as a begginer so I started the cycle and pretty fast I feel my heartbeat going up and my breathe changing so I kept doing the cycle and I started seeing images but I think the problem is here I read that a lot of people are seeing one image and they can do something like zoom in but I saw like flashes and different images and I tried to focus on one of them but when I did that I felt that I was awake so I tried to calm down a little bit and did the cycle again but the same thing happened I feel like I'm losing control when images starts to come in my mind have you any suggestion or am I doing something wrong ?



@Raziiel as you mentioned, DILD is a great way for a beginner to start and what you were reading about people zooming in to the images is more of an advanced WILD process. My suggestion is to continue through the cycles, not worrying about how much you are or are not focusing on the imagery popping up, and you will either fall asleep doing the cycles or you will complete the cycles and get into your favorite sleeping position like RelaxAndDream suggests (and maybe do a few more lazy cycles) and fall asleep. This will often result in a DILD. It is also okay to find your own way to tweak it that fits you, like many of us have, but that is completely up to you. Good luck!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Thanks for all your advice guys, from what I understand I'm going to relax myself a little bit more and try to just see and ear what's happening but not look or listen to it and when I'll feel that I'm falling asleep I'll just try to sleep and stop cycles  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

I tried again last night, I went to bed at midnight and I set my alarm clock at 5:30. I fell asleep in 30 minutes or something trying to do a MILD, when I woke up at 5:30 I stayed in my bed and I started the SSILD I think I still doing it wrong because it takes me 1 hour to fall asleep again but I did a FA and I didn't do any RCs during it  :Sad: 

The worst part is that during my FA my mom came into my bedroom and give me a phone but it was my previous phone and I said "It's not my phone ?!" She looked at me like I was crazy and I said "Oh sorry I forgot it was this one".

When I woke up this morning I was a little sad but I'm happy because I succeeded having a FA and I questioned reality even if I didn't get lucid  :smiley:  

But I'm still wondering why I can't fall asleep faster after a WBTB, if you have any idea let me know  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

^Yes, very realistic scenarios can pop up in FA's making them more of a challenge to catch. That is good progress to have had enough awareness to question the phone that she was giving you. Don't forget that you could also get a FA of something with nothing questionable in it so it is a great habit to always RC when waking up, but one thing at a time for now perhaps. I would say you are getting closer! When you first go to bed MILD is less effective but if you are going to do it, and 30 minutes to fall asleep is long for you, you might want to do MILD before lying down for the first time of the night. As for SSILD at WBTB, some people find that it keeps them awake, some find that the feeling of being awake is actually a dream of lying in bed trying to get to sleep (me last night! but I caught it when I heard myself snoring!) so motionless RC's are great for testing for that, and some find that it relaxes them to sleep quickly. When I started 3 years ago I thought I was also having trouble going to sleep and saved my attempts for the weekend or anytime I could sleep in but *the great news is* the longer it seemed I was trying to get to sleep, the better my chances of having an LD! Keep it up, even if only on the weekends!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

I'll try to do MILD before going to bed it seems to be a good idea and about the SSILD I knew that it induces a lot of FAs but RCs are not a habit yet I guess and maybe I was already dreaming while I thought I was doing SSILD I'm not sure because I was pinching my nose time to time but I should try motionless RCs, by the way which RCs are you doing ?

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## fogelbise

The most common RC's are motion based and thus could delay onset of sleep. If I am not in bed, my current RC is counting fingers, but your nose pinch RC is a great one! It is always good to have a back up RC though in case the nose pinch tells you that you're awake, double check with a 2nd RC, you might be surprised! If I am in bed, I like trying to see through my closed eyelids, floating up off the bed, focusing on any odd feeling in my eyes, or a glottal check (I do a glottal click and occasionally it will sound weird and I know I must be dreaming). I think we are still on topic enough since this is regarding getting SSILD to work for you but if you want to create a workbook for tracking your progress and getting assistance, I encourage you to start a workbook here: DILD where myself and FryingMan help or if you prefer here: Intro Class where you would also be in very good hands. Also, see the 1st link in my signature if you haven't!

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## Raziiel

I'm doing 2 differents RCs pinching my nose and looking at my hands and I don't really understand what you're doing in bed (sorry about that I'm French and my English is pretty basic) ^^
I tried to post a Workbook but I'm a member only for 2 days right now so I'll post tomorrow  :smiley:

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## Kuyarei

I'll be adding this to my WBTB routine as an addition to what i'm already practicing. Based on how successful people seem to be, this should work for me just fine.

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## AndresLD

I think I will be trying this tonight  :smiley: ! I just decided to get back into lucid dreaming and was planning on building up my recall before attempting any techniques with WBTB, but what the hell, got nothing to lose.

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## AndresLD

Hello everyone!

First let me say that it had been well over a year since my last lucid dream. I had just fallen out of the routine, life got in the way, I stopped recording dreams and doing WBTBs altogether. During the past few days I had been wanting to get back into lucid dreaming. Yesterday marked my first recorded dream since last year (I should note, last year I also only got into lucid dreaming for the month of march, and 2012-2014 I wasn't much into it). An old friend of mine from this forum, MadMonkey, mentioned SSILD and I looked into it. I am familiar with the way it works as that's how most of my WILDs used to be, but this tutorial gave it much more structure (I read the tutorial that was attached in a link on the first post). So, last night I went to bed a bit late, but I still put a WBTB alarm for 4.25 hours after going to bed. Here is the non-dream portion I wrote on my DJ: 


*Spoiler* for _WBTB_: 



I woke up 4.25 hours after going to bed. I remembered right away that it was time to attempt SSILD; I got out of bed and felt extremely tired. I stayed inside my room, just walking around and staring at things. After 5 minutes I went back to bed and laid on my back. I did 4 shorts cycles, but kept getting distracted by toughts; instead of worrying about these thoughts I just let them pass by and got back to the cycles. Then I started doing the long cycles, I probably went through 1 or 2 until I noticed I was falling asleep. I switched positions to my sleeping position (laying on my stomach) and focused on hearing my sleep fan. I don't know how much time passed or whether I fell asleep and then woke up, but I started hearing the buzzing that I am all too familiar with from my WILD experiences. I started feeling the tingling in my legs, and the sound coming and going. I waited a minute or so, and then stood up from my bed. 




That's how most of my WILDs start; I stand up from my bed and perform a RC. I usually fly out the window of my bedroom but this time I just exited though the door  :smiley: .
I will attempt this again tomorrow morning!

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## fogelbise

^ Another SSILD success story! Nice job! I have been using it for over 3 years and it is what I used on most of my lucid nights. I usually fall asleep and get a DILD, though it has also given me some WILDs.

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## AndresLD

Thanks! I have been trying it every day, these past couple of days I haven't been able to make it through the 4 quick cycles before falling asleep, so I need to figure out a way to wake myself up a bit more. I am aware that SSILD results mostly in DILDs, but it is very similar to the way I used to do WILD back when I was a regular lucid dreamer so I'm interested to see if it gives me more WILDs as opposed to DILDs.

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## AndresLD

I keep struggling to stay awake though the first couple of minutes after going back to bed, but a few days ago I did manage to find myself semi lucid after falling asleep during SSILD. This morning I had a WILD during SSILD  :smiley: . I will keep experimenting with waking myself up a bit more, staying awake longer, etc and see what works best for me. So far, 3 LDs in week and a half thanks to SSILD!

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## wRembrandt

Performed SSILD during a morning nap. It was weird because I was having intense hypnagogic images which were distracting at times.  I continued doing the SSILD cycles; coming back to a step if I found my mind wandering away. I didn't count the amount of time spent on each sense. I just gently did a sense until I felt it was enough and moved on to another sense. 

When I fell asleep afterwards, I had a vivid dream which ended into a false awakening. I did a reality check to become lucid and completed a dream-task that I had set out to do the night before in its entirety. 

SUCCESS!!

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## Rendar1970

Is there any suggestion or help for someone who is doing SSILD, can tell the technique is working, but then nothing happens afterwards?

Ive been trying SSILD after about 4-5 hours of sleep.  A few cycles into the slow cycle and I can begin to feel hypnagogia kick in.  I begin to get flashes of images, my body begins to feel heavy like its sinking through the bed, I cant sometimes hear buzzing noises.  I keep a light focus on doing the cycles and allow the other sensations to come and go (like one would with random thoughts during meditation).  Eventually during one of the slower cycles I will fall asleep.  Then... nothing.  I just wake up in the morning.

I have never gotten a result of entering the dream already lucid, never experienced a DILD, never even gotten a FA (i reality check everytime I wake up in the night and morning regardless of technique I use).

I can tell the technique is doing something due to all the sensations and feelings Im getting while practicing it, however after i fall asleep all I do is dream.  So ive just been plugging along, sticking to only SSILD, keeping my dream journal, but i dont appear to be making any progress to actually having a LD.

Any suggestions?

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## fogelbise

I'll see if I can assist. How many attempts have you made using SSILD? What specifically do you focus on for the 3 senses? What are your day practices like?

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## Rendar1970

> I'll see if I can assist. How many attempts have you made using SSILD? What specifically do you focus on for the 3 senses? What are your day practices like?



I have been using SSILD for 1.5 months now.  When doing the cycles I do the following.  For eyes I just gently watch the black space behind my eyelids with my eyes in a relaxed position, sometimes I begin to see patterns and shapes, but I just allow them to come and go without giving them too much attentions.  For ears, I focus on the sounds of the room, my breathing, and hearing my heartbeat.  For body I just become aware of my body, relaxing any tension, and feeling my limbs get heavy.

My daily practices are keeping a dream journal, Doing various RC's through out the day (hand check, breathing with nose pinched, etc), I also during the day do about 30 minutes of mindfullnes meditation (practicing Buddhist), as well as try to make mindfulness my main waking goal each day.

Im pretty sure I am getting the SSILD technique right, as each night when I try it after waking 4-5 hours after going to sleep, I can definitly feel myself enter into a state of hypnagogia.  But thats where it ends.  Eventually doing the cycles over and over I doze off, then wake up in the morning and record my dreams.  I have not yet had a LD (ive actually never had  a LD yet, even after 6 months of practicing various techniques), also never had a FA yet.

Thanks for taking time to help me.

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## fogelbise

I have a couple of ideas that I think will help based upon what you wrote and my experiences. I use SSILD and a variations of it primarily intending to DILD though I sometimes use it to WILD, so that DILD focus may come through in my suggestions. Some of this will break from the standard instructions, which it sounds like you are doing correctly, so I think it is time to change up something - assuming you haven't only made 6 attempts or so in the 1.5 months (1 per week for example). I will give you 3 levels of deviation from the SSILD technique.

If you want to stick more to the original technique: since you fall asleep doing the cycles you could try doing less of the "relaxing tensions" and maybe also just focus on one point of your body. Alternatively you can try staying up a little longer as the only change or add it to the above suggestion. (How long do you get up from bed and what do you do?) SSILD seems to work better for some people when they are almost having trouble getting to sleep but eventually do.

To try something a little different with the cycles: you can do what I started doing a good while back by combining the cycles into each breath. Vision while breathing in, auditory at the top of the breath, and body while breathing out. (I just focus on the slight feeling in my sternum that seems to be tied to breathing).

Or to try something quite a bit different: When you start getting HH's, do some basic MILD and then doze off. The basic MILD I am thinking of is: Envision a vivid dream from that night or a recent night and imagine becoming lucid in it and all of the interesting things that you would do while lucid. I think that the MILD has a better chance of making it into the dream and helping you to become lucid when it is done closer to REM like at the HH stage.

You can do it!  :smiley:

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## Rendar1970

> You can do it!



Thank you for the suggestions.  I will definitely give those a try.  I like your suggestion of moving through all the cycles in a pattern of 1 breath.  I will have be trying that tonight.   

Thank you for trying to help me.  I will report back with what seems to be working or not.  Hopefully this will be what I need to push me that extra inch to get lucid.  ::thanks::

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## Rendar1970

Well I tried again last night after a WBTB.  I got through about 5 cycles trying it the modified way with cycling per breathe before the hypnagogic sensations came on strong. It felt like I was floating and spinning in my bed. But it never got further than that. I tried a few motionless RC's but found I was still awake. This continued for a while till I feel asleep.

When I woke up again an hour later I tried SSILD again but this time tried MILD when I got the HH, but did not get lucid. However my normal dreams were very vivid and more clear.

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## sreed628

I'm also having problems with SSILD....and any other form of LD induction for that matter.  I haven't had one since I was a kid.  I've been focusing on SSILD for about a week now and I can't seem to figure out what I'm waiting for.  I wake up after about five hours of sleep and have tried both just a quick trip to the bathroom and staying up for 5-10 minutes before laying back down.  I see tons of HH which i try not to focus on.  I hear a very high pitched tone in my ears (almost like a dog whistle) that seems to stimulate an almost dizziness in my head, and I get vibrations from my toes to just above my knees, from my fingers to my biceps, and in my sternum just below where my heart would be.....and nothing ever happens.  I either eventually fall asleep and wake up in the morning with some ok vivid dreams for my journal, or I never fall asleep and wake up exhausted for the rest of the day.  Never had an OBE, never had an FA.  It's starting to feel like somebody is playing a sick joke on me.  Sometimes I feel like I'm just about to pass through, but my eyes start vibrating as well, almost like they're moving REM style, but again, nothing ever happens.  The entire sensation fades away and I fall asleep or I try to hang onto it like the original post says, and I just have a last few hours of no sleep and no dreams.  I'm going to try the method mentioned above, incorporating the steps into a single breath, but can anybody analyze this and point out what I'm doing wrong here?  I've been trying to become lucid for close to a year now with just one little two second blip of a DILD that was pure coincidence.  My motivation is the possibility that one night I'll get the chance to speak with my deceased daughter, even if it is only a figment of my subconscious.  Please help!

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## AndresLD

> I'm also having problems with SSILD....and any other form of LD induction for that matter.  I haven't had one since I was a kid.  I've been focusing on SSILD for about a week now and I can't seem to figure out what I'm waiting for.  I wake up after about five hours of sleep and have tried both just a quick trip to the bathroom and staying up for 5-10 minutes before laying back down.  I see tons of HH which i try not to focus on.  I hear a very high pitched tone in my ears (almost like a dog whistle) that seems to stimulate an almost dizziness in my head, and I get vibrations from my toes to just above my knees, from my fingers to my biceps, and in my sternum just below where my heart would be.....and nothing ever happens.  I either eventually fall asleep and wake up in the morning with some ok vivid dreams for my journal, or I never fall asleep and wake up exhausted for the rest of the day.  Never had an OBE, never had an FA.  It's starting to feel like somebody is playing a sick joke on me.  Sometimes I feel like I'm just about to pass through, but my eyes start vibrating as well, almost like they're moving REM style, but again, nothing ever happens.  The entire sensation fades away and I fall asleep or I try to hang onto it like the original post says, and I just have a last few hours of no sleep and no dreams.  I'm going to try the method mentioned above, incorporating the steps into a single breath, but can anybody analyze this and point out what I'm doing wrong here?  I've been trying to become lucid for close to a year now with just one little two second blip of a DILD that was pure coincidence.  My motivation is the possibility that one night I'll get the chance to speak with my deceased daughter, even if it is only a figment of my subconscious.  Please help!



So sorry to hear about your daughter  :Sad: . Sometimes when you put too much energy and thought towards lucid dreaming, you set yourself up for failure. Most of my dryspells start with me trying too hard. It is only when I relax a bit (e.g. stop writing dreams for a few nights, stop setting WBTB alarms, stop spending hours on DV) that I can usually break my dryspells. As for failing with SSILD, and/or any kind of WILD/DILD coupled with WBTB, it's a matter of trying different things and finally finding something that works for you. I personally have never had "ambiguous" vibrations/HHs during a WBTB. For me, it's always 100% clear that I have hit SP (or HH, depending on who you ask), and for me it's just a matter of waiting a minute and then standing up (which always ends up resulting in me standing up in my dream bed). Everyone's experiences are different, but I would suggest trying mantras during your WBTB, and find a way to not wake yourself up too much. You should't have a hard time going back to sleep after a WBTB, although it is not uncommon. Also, if I may, try looking into DEILD. I found that to be the easiest method when I first got into lucid dreaming. And try being "aware" during your day. Stop a few times a day to ask yourself whether this could be a dream; do you remember how you get there? Does your context make sense? Do a RC. You get the idea, practicing that can make you be more aware during your dreams, and possibly leading to random DILDs

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## sreed628

Thanks Andres!  I've been incorporating rc's into my daily routine more and more.  My favorite is to look at my left hand and really become aware of my calluses that firm just below my wedding ring.  I get to a point in my technique where I think I might be lucid, but I'm to afraid to just "stand up" because if I'm not, then I have to start all over again.  I'm clueless as to what sp actually feels like.  I get completely numb, but never to a point where I couldn't move if I wanted to.  I think my main problem is just that I haven't become lucid yet and so I just don't know what it is or how to identify it or even if I'm on the right track.  I'm hoping that just tons of repetition will eventually pay off.  I'm the kind of person that once I've done something one time, I can do it again the next time easily, but I just need that once.

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## AndresLD

SP and HH usually go hand in hand. I almost use them interchangeably, but HH describes my WILDing experiences more accurately, and they usually mark my transition to dreaming. Numbness itself is not quite SP nor HH I believe. I think you are taking the right steps, but might me worrying too much about it to the point where it hinders your ability to LD, whether through DILD or WILD. I would suggest giving yourself a small break, think a week or so, of no WBTB alarms or dream journaling (don't worry, you will get your recall back right away once you start recording them again). That's my suggestion, but feel free to not take it. Good luck!

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## fogelbise

@Rendar - It sounds like you are making some nice progress from your post in another thread and I think that you had two lucid moments that night based on what I read there! Sageous gave you some excellent advice and if you decide to take his suggestion of going the DILD route, you (and anyone reading this) are more than welcome to start a DILD workbook. FryingMan (mentioned by Sageous in that thread) and myself help run the DILD workbooks.

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## Robn9008

Its so good to be surfing the net and find a resource one has never seen before. This forum thread is great. I am an active ld and obe practitioner for many years. I am inclined to do this during the night as I awake a few times and can go to sleep or WILD if I want. However this seems like a gentle back to sleep inducement method that may be easer or more interesting to experience. The trick seems to be cycling the see, hear, feel without any other practice and ease into the WILD or ld once asleep. I can DILD as well so lets see if this is any different, easier or more interesting.

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## Kaan

Had the first LD in a While thanks to the SSILD, my last one was 10 months ago, I left the LD away for a long time but I'm back on it since 10 days ago. 

I usually use SSILD to fall asleep when I have an insomnia. 
Generally my insomnia are near the beginning of the night, or near the middle, so they are never just followed by some REM sleep. 
Hence, SSILD never induces a LD, but this night I was doing it after 6 h of sleep. 
This insomnia lasted about 50 min, I struggled against the envy of get out of bed, and tried several times SSILD without being able to go back to sleep until I try something slightly different: 

Instead of focusing on each sense during two breathing (which makes about 15 secs) I made it last 4 breathing for each sens. 
I didn't wait long before falling asleep, and then, the dream was just at its beginning I just realize I'm dreaming, without any particular reason.
I opened the window of this unknown hostel and flew in the air. wow  , I missed this feeling. 

That's the way SSILD made me be lucid in the past : you become lucid for no reason, there is just this moment you know you are dreaming.

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