# Sleep and Dreams > Beyond Dreaming >  >  Microdosing Before Bed

## Stephen022

This was just a random idea I had that I feel is probably a very good one  ::D:   Okay, obviously the idea of dropping acid or eating shrooms before bed is basically physically impossible....... you'll trip your ass off and not sleep.  However, what about the idea of microdosing before bed!  I bet you would get to sleep, but the microdose of psychs would drastically alter sleep patterns and lead to some incredible lucid dreams and probably even astral projection.  Like say you ate like 25 morning glory seeds, and then went to sleep.  You'd be not really "tripping", but the psychs would be affecting you a bit.  This would probably set the stage for some incredible dream/astral experiences, likely even astral projection I bet.  Just an idea.  Not encouraging the consumption of these substances, but if you'd be down to take them..... this is probably a great idea to try  ::D:   What does everyone else think.  

Note: I'm not encouraging drug use, I am simply saying that this probably would cause alterations in sleep patterns that would lead to astral projection and/or other sleep phenomena.  Obviously though, I am not saying that everybody should go out and do this, because psychs are some powerful stuff.  Plus, if you eat morning glory seeds, you gotta make sure you get the untreated kind otherwise you get sick as fuck and it can even be dangerous.  The Burpees are good though, that's what I've always eaten when I took them.

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## dreamcatcher81

I would try to get a toxicology report on the phyco active drug your using. See if you can relate it to other lucid dream supplements we know have a positive effect on dreams. Ultimately you'll have to have a sense of adventure ,try what your proposing and report your findings- namaste

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## Runeword

interesting that you would link drug use experiences to make sense of or further your knowledge of "astral projection" to me as i first landed on this forum seeking to make sense of the same experiences. i think you're on the right track and there is definitely a connection. (drug use is the cheater method in my humble opinion). i think you will definitely get some answers though researching this forum

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## cwcamp

it's not really dreaming though..

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## snoop

Serotonergic psychedelics, like LSD, Psilocybin mushrooms, DMT, and mescaline would probably have more negative effects than good, even at threshold doses. The problem here is their specific neuropharmacology. All serotonergic psychedelics have something in common: they act as partial or full agonists of the 5-HT2A receptor (a serotonin subreceptor... the 5-HT stems from serotonin's chemical name *5*-*H*ydroxy*t*ryptamine). Partial agonist functionally activates a receptor up to a certain threshold, at which point it stops the receptor from activating/firing. It still remains bound to the receptor, however, preventing serotonin from binding to the receptor and causing it to fire. Thus, it acts as an antagonist after that threshold is reached. A full agonist, of course, simply activates causes a neuron to fire. LSD is also an agonist at the dopamine D2 receptor, along with DMT at D1, and a1 and a2 (adrenergic receptors). Dopamine, Serotonin, Norepinephrine, Histamine, and for the most part, Acetylcholine are all part of the wakefulness promoting system of our brains. There is a sleep promoting system as well, and while being awake, they are constantly at odds with each other. When asleep, with the exception of dopamine (for what reason dopamine neurons continue firing is somewhat less understood despite dopamine's clear effects on wakefulness and stimulation) and acetylcholine in specific locations during REM sleep. Histamine, Norepinephrine, and Serotonin neurons go more and more silent during the night, seeing very modest rises in activity during REM sleep. Acetylcholine is just about the only neurotransmitter you can mess with out of this group and not suffer from sleeplessness or significant deficits in dream stability and being prone to waking up very easily, along with affecting the length of REM cycles and the suppression of REM sleep. 

Along with the pharmacology fully supporting this, a psychedelic experience is typically very stimulating. I know you're talking about microdosing, but assuming there aren't really any of the negative repercussions I already discussed, it's likely you won't experience an advantageous and interesting novel dream experience either because of how little it's actually doing. Now, acetylcholine is where the money is at, provided you don't take so much of a substance that would increase or enhance acetylcholine neurotransmission that it is too stimulating, which would then cause the same issues the psychedelics or any stimulant would cause. The number of acetycholine neurons firing increases significantly during REM sleep, which is why you are more easily able to remember having a dream during REM sleep and the dream is more stable, lacking the nonsensical fragmentation of dreaming that takes place during NREM sleep. This is why people taking choline+galantamine experience such success with lucidity, dream stability, and recall. Choline is a precursor to acetylcholine, and galantamine is a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor allosterioc potentiating ligand (which means when acetylcholine is bound to a receptor, it increases the strength of the signal) as well as an inhibitor of the acetylcholinesterase (which is an enzyme that breaks extracelluar acetylcholine down). 

If you want to experiment with substances that would help in a similar way to galantamine, look up nootropics. Most nootropics function in some way by increasing the neuronal firing of acetylcholine. If you do decide to experiment, just remember that the sought-after nootropic and dream effects reverse and actually get worse if you take too much (worse than if you hadn't taken anything), and can also lead to suicidality and depression. If you take the proper dosages though, you should see benefits.

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## gab

The words I understood were pretty cool. Thanks, snoop.

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## Nuova

This is how I ended up on this site. I microdosed last night, around 6PM, and went to bed at 1am. I usually do my microdose in the am, but figured I'd be fine by bedtime. I had very vivid dreams last night, but no more vivid than I've had with focused intent in the past. I could not however, for the life of me, stay asleep. I can't think of any other reason for this restlessness, but if that was the cause, then I would not recommend it. The dreams weren't worth the terrible quality of sleep.

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## TiredPhil

Why not try something that is fully legal that be bought from health food stores.
Choline Inositol tablets are very cheap. Less than £6 in the UK for 100 tablets
Noopept, and Sunifram will also effect your ability to recall dreams. Not sure if these are available where you live, so check first.
Hundreds of clinically tested, legal products out there that will assist you on your search.
Pineapple juice, Cherry juice ( bitter version ) Cheese, etc, etc.
Good healthy diet seems to help me the most.

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## Neo Neo

This is kind of derailing the topic, but I've had some interesting dream experiences with Valerian root and Calea Zacatechichi. Valerian Root is not normally associated with dreaming and isn't a psychoactive, but I've had some tripped out dreams while taking it and have increased dream stability. It also gives my dreams a "darker" tone and feel, maybe more serious or depressive themes. I don't know if its like this for other users of it but I've found it to be the case for me. Valerian root is traditionally used as a sedative to get to sleep.

Calea Zacatechichi on the otherhand has a internet reputation for being a "dream herb" for lucidity, although its given me more ecstatic and cartoony dreams. My dreams were a bit more vivid and more activity and action, and a polar opposite of the Valerian Root. I've read you can make a tea out of the Calea but haven't tried that. Both of these are legal options too  ::D: 

One of my friends swears by Mugwort, by placing it under/in his pillow at night and going to sleep normally. I think the scent or breathing it in at night changes something, because he always talks how his dreams are more vivid or gets lucid dreams from just having it under/near his head at night.

And oddly enough eating a banana before bed has given me more vivid dreams, so I don't know if there's something to that as well. My two cents here lol

And Edit: Haven't really tried microdosing before sleep, personally don't know how much of a difference it would make for me since I have vivid dreams to begin with. Entheogens are meant to activate your mind, so part of me feels like using them to alter sleep for AP or lucid dreams is counter-intuitive since dreaming is already like a form of tripping. It'd be interesting to see if it could help people to dream who cannot, but to me it just seems like trying to put the mind on overdrive during sleep, versus just naturally sleeping or full on tripping and staying awake.

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## Stephen022

> Why not try something that is fully legal that be bought from health food stores.
> Choline Inositol tablets are very cheap. Less than £6 in the UK for 100 tablets
> Noopept, and Sunifram will also effect your ability to recall dreams. Not sure if these are available where you live, so check first.
> Hundreds of clinically tested, legal products out there that will assist you on your search.
> Pineapple juice, Cherry juice ( bitter version ) Cheese, etc, etc.
> Good healthy diet seems to help me the most.



Yeah, I'll definitely check that out.  I think the seeds would more than likely just keep me up at night.... as I'd be tripping balls  :smiley:

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## Patrick

I'm a frequent microdoser and just want to chime in. 

I think microdosing LSD/psilocybin may very well help your lucidity, just by making your sleep very light.

I find a similar effect when I smoke Calea Zacatechichi, where my sleep becomes lighter so makes it easier to slightly wake up then smoothly enter into lucidity.





> I've read you can make a tea out of the Calea but haven't tried that.



^^ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD don't do this. It's the most disgusting brew I've ever tasted. Pure bitterness. Just smoke it - it actually has a nice flavour as long as you keep it away from boiling water.

Personally I've never microdosed at night, only during the day. It keeps me in a meditative state for longer, which is certainly helpful for general mindfulness, and I have many more vivid and lucid dreams when I am keeping up with my mindfulness practice.

Psst - if legality is a concern, there are legal ways of obtaining LSD/psilocybin such as 1P-LSD or magic truffles. Did you know that psilocybin mushrooms are legal to grow in New Mexico, for example? You just need to do some research  :smiley:

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## TiredPhil

Looks like there are quite a few professionals that have been micro-dosing for a long time.
Government officials.
Judges.
Authors.
Research scientists. 
Most of the population of Silicone Valley.

It's helped to open theirs minds, and progress in life. 
Good enough for them, then it is good enough for you.

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