# Sleep and Dreams > Research >  >  Cannabis-Induced-Lucid-Dreaming ( OH YEA )

## Kuhnada29

I am now 100% convinced that weed actually takes you TO the subconscious mind. But fear resists it..thus smokers becoming depersonalized. 

For one thing, melatonin helps with having vivid dreams, and weed increases melatonin production by 4,000% percent. This is scientifically documented. 

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The weirdest thing happened to me last, I was so fucking high off weed that when I came into the house to lay down I immediately witnessed hypnagogic imagery as I relaxed. 

One thing is for certain, weed relaxes the body to the upmost degree. Which is all that is really required for a WILD. We must keep the mind awake though.

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## Dimethyltryptamine

Are you sure it was HI?
Are you sure it wasn't closed eye visuals?

I know I can never WILD when I'm stoned. My mind always wanders and I can never focus.

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## SKA

> Are you sure it was HI?
> Are you sure it wasn't closed eye visuals?
> 
> I know I can never WILD when I'm stoned. My mind always wanders and I can never focus.



If you ask me HI and Close Eyed Visuals are one and the same thing.

perhaps HI is a possible indication that endogenous DMT-levels in the brain are gradually rising. The peak of these theoretically DMT induced experiences being what we know as "Dreams"

We humans seem to experience strange visual phenomena with our eyes closed near sleep. And some hours into the sleep we experience imaterial, realistic, submersive visions we call "Dreams".
Experiences very remeniscent of Entheogenic tryptamine experiences (such as DMT, LSD, Psilocybin and other Entheogenic tryptamines. And it is scientifically confirmed that the human brain produces DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-OH-DMT and other psychoactive compounds that are known to cause visions.

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## Kuhnada29

My mind was wandering also when I was laying in bed Dimeth, I think rambling thoughts is what causes us to lose consciousness. 

I believe closed eye visuals and hypnagogic imagery to be the same exact thing, the way I see it, it's still DMT being released in the brain. Weed IS a psychedelic. 

I don't know why the high was so strong ( maybe because I usually don't smoke that much ), the body vibrations I was getting felt insanely intense. Like waves...I think the rambling fear thoughts is what PREVENTS the relaxing state required for a WILD. Deep breathing relaxed me though. 

Mood and setting are important, if you are uncomfortable when your high on weed, you experience anxiety and fear-chaotic thoughts to the upmost degree..they keep multiplying and intensifying ...it was driving me mad last night. So the best thing is to be in a good mood and and breath deeply when trying this. Relaxation is key..just like with a regular WILD attempt. 

Something else that was weird is that last night, besides the visual hallucination, I witnessed auditory hallucinations...I thought I was going mad! It definitely was the same as when I attempted a WILD one night and heard a voice. Probaly was in the HI stage. 

One thing is for sure...I was extremely high, the last time I was high like this was like my 4th or 5th time smoking weed and I almost had a panic attack. 

So to sum it up: Cannabis deeply relaxes the body, which is all that is required for a WILD. 

This is what I will try next time I smoke:

1.) Get extremely high in a comfortable setting and be in a good mood
2.) Lay down in bed and close my eyes
3.) Diaphragmatic breathing ( deep breathing )
4.) AWARENESS...I know my body is relaxed when I smoke, but I need to stay aware. I will try visualization. I feel with the body relaxed the way it is from cannabis, I just try and visualize a dream scene and it will manifest. But I have to stay conscious.  


SO, this is how I think it goes. 

Mind awake/ Body Asleep formula:

Cannabis = relaxation..body asleep
Visualization = Mind(attention) awake.

Focusing on something sensory keeps you from zoning out. Zoning out quells attention. 

It's the thoughts, I believe..the rambling thoughts is what CAUSES us to lose conscious every night we sleep, we need to visualize..use our senses and have our attention on something for a dream to manifest. 

THIS is from a user on a cannabis message board:





> So I decided to make this thread about lucid dreams. mainly becuase they are fuckin awesome.
> but anyways I am going to tell you what works for me on having a lucid dream, and hopefully other will chime in and tell us what helps them with lucid dreams.
> So to start you want to be able to totally relax your body to the point of it being asleep while keeping your mind awake. I personally like to smoke a real fat bowl, then lay down with a pillow under my head and once I lay down I just concentrate on a certian area of muscles (like toes. feet. lower leg. upper leg. stomach. chest. fingers. hand. lower arm. upper arm. shoulders. neck. then once I get to my face I concentrate on each muscle) once they all feel relaxedyour body will feel like it doesnt want to move, and you will think about moving but it wont really happen. at this point you will have lots of somewhat random thoughts running through you mind, just relax and go with the fow, untill you start to focus on one thing. then once you get into this one thing (one single dream) you can make what ever choices you want. I have found that when your high and lucid dreaming you choose to do some weird shit.
> like In one dream i was talking to a friend and we finished our conversation, and I just hopped up in the air and floated away.
> anyways hopefully that makes sense and helps people start with lucid dreams. they can be very fun, and very trippy if your on a sativa high

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## Dannon Oneironaut

I have been very high on weed and gotten into that higher dimension perspective. In fact it would happen all the time, but after a half hour or 45 minutes I would crash and get the munchies and be kind of stupid. I don't smoke anymore but I have smoked for 17 or 18 years, not everyday all the time but sometimes everyday. But I have tried over and over again to WILD while I was stoned. Each and every time no matter how high I was I couldn't focus my mind. When I stopped smoking for a week I was immediately able to WILD pretty consistently. I think that pot stimulates your mind and releases DMT and such, but then it depresses it and the DMT fades. I don't think it relaxes my body, my haw would be tense and my shoulders and neck. I think that yoga and deep breathing relax the body and the mind. It is interesting though, Pot DOES do something relaxing. It relaxes consciousness, hmm? Everyone is different, I wish I could still smoke weed and be able to lucid dream.

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## Motumz

Hmm this is very interesting. I have some Chocolate Kush left over from last night. I think I'll try this tonight and see what I get. I hope my mind doesn't wander too much..  ::banana::

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## Tarsier

420 for life brah

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## Hei

lol i'm gonna do a wbtb now with a big joint while i'm typing gonna try wild right after i'll say it if i get any better results since my wild seems to fail alot and havent practiced much.
lucky for me that i just had my best lucid dream tonight it was a really nice one everything looked so real and i was lucid the whole time but didn't had to rc or rub hands i was just really conscience and aware but the only thing i did before sleeping was taking in some omega-3 and calcium/magnesium and some c&d so it could be because of that. and i smoked a big joint after fitnessing.

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## Peel

I don't think weed is really for everyone. Some people get relaxed by it, and it would work well for them, but I can say that for me it seems to dumb me down at low doses and high doses with mild hallucinations tend to be very uncomfortable and chaotic. Back when I would experiment with MJ, I got some sort of hallucinations several times, and all of those times the hallucinations would happen in rapid flashes and I would flash from reality to the hallucination rapidly, and I think the flashes went sort of with my heartbeat because with each one it felt like blood was gushing violently in my body, at really high pressure. It's far from relaxing, and just makes me feel "fucked up" instead of simply in a state of mind were I can explore my subconscious. I don't like being fucked up, I like being able to explore various areas of my mind in peace.

That being said, I can't imagine MJ helping me with lucid dreams, since it's nearly impossible for me to be at ease.

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## Vranna

I do think weed can help. When I smoke I can wild more easily.  I go from lying on the couch to walking around in my dreams. But I know it doesn't work for everyone. I know it didn't work for me until I started smoking weed on a daily basis.

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## neville

I've had many dreams while or about receiving & toking.

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## Kuhnada29

Wow! I've been on erowid reading the experience reports on cannabis. It sounds like some people have gone from waking state, directly into a lucid dream..where they could control shit with their mind. Seems they didn't know it was a lucid dream, but called it intense hallucinations, and a total different state of awareness.

I'm going to try this experiment maybe this weekend. 

But one thing is important, before attempting to get retarded-high, comfort, setting, and STATE-OF-MIND are VERY important before trying to trip..any negative or anxious feelings of anything will surely manifest as extremely chaotic thoughts and eventually manifest in some type of nightmare if you don't lose consciousness before then. I know this from personal experience that being in a bad mood before smoking, may cause some unwanted results. 

I've been thinking about getting a vaporizer( probally the best way to get the highest), but they are expensive as shit! )

I may just end up making a gravity bong though. 

Here's one report:

https://www.rhodium.ws/experiences/exp.php?ID=1788

I'm thinking this experiment will best work when the lights are off and you are in a quiet dark place. That way the melatonin will set it as you relax. Binaural beats may be helpful also.

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## Idolfan

Ha ha! I forgot about this!

I almost had some kind of experience when chilling out stoned, but I stopped trying because all weed usually does is keep my bolt upright and energetic.

But recently I have found that if you let them, hypnogogic images come extremely readily.

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## Motumz

> Ha ha! I forgot about this!
> 
> I almost had some kind of experience when chilling out stoned, but I stopped trying because all weed usually does is keep my bolt upright and energetic.
> 
> But recently I have found that if you let them, hypnogogic images come extremely readily.



Smoking large amounts of swag gives me lots of hypnogogic images for me. Haven't smoked swag in a while though, the images aren't worth the shitty taste, smell, and the general roughness of the smoke.

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## spiritofthewolf

I will say this in support of Marijuana.. Each time that I have smoked it and laid in bed to go to sleep, I hit the HI stage in WILD almost with in the first 2 minutes, and my body was relaxed in about 10... I've only come so close to a WILD on the nights I was high

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## Dragonsphere

Hm. well, when I stopped smoking, I actually noticed that I could recall more dreams, and that they were more vivid. Now I haven't tried smoking again, really, so it might be different.

I was thinking about those of you who talked about being anxious or paranoid. You migt try differnt kinds of marijuana. Some strains make you more alert, and jittery, while some variations will produce a more relaxed, mellow vibe. There are even some strains that are supposed to create a more "head-trippy" experience. I always liked to find out what strain I had, and maybe you could experiment with what strains help or hinder your dreaming experiences.

Oh, and you might consider trying a mixture of Mugwort and cannabis. I tried this a couple of times, but with little success.

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## Kuhnada29

You know...one thing I have noticed..and I'm 100% sure this is true: is that the more thoughts you have( like with weed), the more introverted you are..

You get introverted enough and you will fall into HI and eventually hit a lucid dream( lucid dreams are introversion ) ..just keep your mind awake..the best thing for that is visualization. VISUALIZE what you want to be doing in a lucid dream. Feel the steering wheel of the race car your driving, feel your your foot on the pedal and your body on the seat as you fall asleep. 

Tomorrow is Friday, which is my last day of work for the week. I will get some weed then and try this for the weekend.

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## tommo

Have any of you read my research thread about Cannabis and dreaming/pineal activation?  Should check it out, I need test subjects!  ::lol:: 
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=86672

I also hallucinated from weed a few weeks ago.  Besides what happened in that thread I linked to.  It was auditory though.  I seem to always hallucinate aurally instead of visually.  But it was like an alien voice saying something to me which I won't say here lol.  Maybe another time.  It takes a bit of explaining to make any sense.  And the weirdest thing was that I was listening to my headphones and I got SO consumed in my thoughts that I was thinking for about 5-10 minutes or more and it was only a second or so IRL.  As soon as I 'came back' I realised the music was stopped and than instantly it just 'swung' back into playing and kind of echoed and rippled for lack of a better word and the music kept playing, it was so beautiful.

Not sure of the point of that post, but kinda just adding weight to the fact that Cannabis puts you in a very relaxed state and you can't fight it.  That's what causes the 'gravity pulling me down' feeling so many people describe.  You can reach this state naturally though.  I found out I could do that by smoking less and less each time and still trying to retain that feeling as long and intense as I could.  Eventually you don't have to smoke at all.

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## tommo

I just got SO FUCKING CLOSE to a WILD last night after smoke a little bit of pot.  I barely even tried.  But I started half dreaming while awake and then suddenly switched back to awake twice.  It was SO confusing though because it took me a second to realise I wasn't still dreaming.  I thought when I switched back to awake that I was dreaming so I tried to float off my bed but nothing.  I thought the dream was real life! lol  Both times!

Weird....

I couldn't remember the little dreams for the life of me either.  Guess that's the short term memory loss for ya  ::lol::

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## lucid4sho

Marijuana can help induce a WILD but in general THC is known to supress REM sleep. I think most people would have better luck LDing the day after smoking due to REM rebound.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

It seems that the best bet is to attempt WILD before coming down off the MJ.

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## lucid4sho

> It seems that the best bet is to attempt WILD before coming down off the MJ.



I can only WILD at WBTB, if I smoke at WBTB I am out like a light. So personally this is not a viable method for me. I have had some amazing lds the following night after a smoke binge though.

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## Loaf

Not worth it. I'd rather stop lucid dreaming all together than use this method.

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## lucid4sho

> Not worth it. I'd rather stop lucid dreaming all together than use this method.



Ya, I definitely don't suggest anyone start smoking pot to have LDs that would be insanely dumb.

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## katielovestrees

I want to try this. Normally when I smoke I don't want to "waste the high" (friends get pissed when I fall asleep) and haven't known about it in relation to LDing, usually just wait until I'm coming down and have a "dreamless" sleep. But maybe if my heart's in it next time...I need to get like a couple grams because I am gradually compiling a list of things I want to try while high haha. This is definitely gonna be near the top.

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## tommo

> Not worth it. I'd rather stop lucid dreaming all together than use this method.



Wow, what a constructive post!
You could have just, oh I dunno.... not posted?  Instead of passively letting everyone know you hate Cannabis.

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## Boogaloojay

> Wow, what a constructive post!
> You could have just, oh I dunno.... not posted?  Instead of passively letting everyone know you hate Cannabis.



 Yeah that was my thought. 

Anyway, back on topic. I smoke on a regular basis. Most days I smoke 3-5 times I day everyday. I've never had the pleasure of having LD or any kind of closed eye visuals. 

That being said, I just ran out last night for the first time in a couple of years and had intense dreams last night. I know it's well documented that weed reduces REM sleep so while I'm out of it for a little while I'm gonna take advantage of dreaming again and try to have my first lucid dream. 

Last night I came as close as I ever had to a LD. I couldn't control it but It was a lot more intense then they usually are.

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## Nathan

Good info :] Glad i wont have to cut down too much eheh

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## Loaf

> Wow, what a constructive post!
> You could have just, oh I dunno.... not posted?  Instead of passively letting everyone know you hate Cannabis.



I could just imagine some younger people who are now trying to have an LD by getting stoned, thanks to a bunch of pot heads. Someone needs to step in an disagree. Wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea.

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## slash112

Could I just warn you guys. I have read from a few places that weed lowers your blood serotonin levels.

This can do bad shit to your sleep. It makes you sleep heavier, which is no good for certain techniques.

I'm just letting you know... I won't interfere with your illegal induction method.

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## katielovestrees

> I could just imagine some younger people who are now trying to have an LD by getting stoned, thanks to a bunch of pot heads. Someone needs to step in an disagree. Wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea.



You're supposed to be at least 15 to join this forum, and if a 15-year-old hasn't tried pot already, odds are they're not gonna do it for this reason alone without giving it a little bit of rational thought initially. (I'm not saying this to give 15-year-olds more credit than they deserve, just that most of the "younger people" who would be stupid enough to try it without consideration for its potential negative effects are likely to have already tried it before the age of 15.)

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## Motumz

> I could just imagine some younger people who are now trying to have an LD by getting stoned, thanks to a bunch of pot heads. Someone needs to step in an disagree. Wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea.



What's wrong with getting stoned? It's a herb, big deal. It's not like it's meth you prick.

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## Loaf

> What's wrong with getting stoned? It's a herb, big deal. It's not like it's meth you prick.



Inhaling burning ash in any form is not healthy.

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## Boogaloojay

> Inhaling burning ash in any form is not healthy.



 Doesn't everybody know that? Smoke of any kind in the lung is unhealthy. People who smoke think the reward is better then the risk, you obviously think the opposite. I'm not condoning smoking weed just to dream either. But since I do smoke and I do dream I'll share my experiences. Eating too much fat is unhealthy too, why don't you bitch on people for that too?

By the way, if your inhaling ashes you're doing it wrong. No wonder you don't like it.  ::lol::   ::lol::   :tongue2:

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## Loaf

> Eating too much fat is unhealthy too, why don't you bitch on people for that too?



Because unlike you addicted stoners, I can stop eating bad foods or burn it off in days. You smoke something, you get addicted to it. You shared your poison with everyone else. Your clothes stink of smoke. You damage your body more than eating one too many cream cakes would do. So by all means, suck in that poison. I don't give a shit if you die. Enjoy it. I could eat plenty of shit and I wouldn't cause as much harm as breathing in pot. Pot will fuck your brain up. Fatty foods wont.

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## Boogaloojay

> Because unlike you addicted stoners, I can stop eating bad foods or burn it off in days. You smoke something, you get addicted to it. You shared your poison with everyone else. Your clothes stink of smoke. You damage your body more than eating one too many cream cakes would do. So by all means, suck in that poison. I don't give a shit if you die. Enjoy it. I could eat plenty of shit and I wouldn't cause as much harm as breathing in pot. Pot will fuck your brain up. Fatty foods wont.



Funny you don't see many old fat people, plenty of old stoner though. Strange how that works. For your information most people can stop smoking whenever they want to. It's not mentally addicting at all and that's a fact. Obviously I'll smoke when I get more but I'm not suffering at all by not smoking. Unlike cigs and alcohol, which by the way I do neither. You really think people have died from smoking weed? Not nearly as many as cigs. It's not healthy because it's still smoke but you really think it's as harmful as you say it is you either have a personal vendetta or you're just ignorant.

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## Loaf

> Funny you don't see many old fat people, plenty of old stoner though.



Wrong.

Stop trying to justify your smoking. YOU are the one that is ignorant if you thinking smoking is anything other than unhealthy. Don't bring up other health issues to try and move the spotlight off smoking. Its not a competition to see what kills you faster. Either way, you are killing yourself. Enjoy cancer you fool.

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## tommo

> I could just imagine some younger people who are now trying to have an LD by getting stoned, thanks to a bunch of pot heads. Someone needs to step in an disagree. Wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea.



Ok, but....
That is not the way to do it.  People are going to laugh at you when you come in acting all righteous or just simply say "you addicted stoners are teh moronz"





> Could I just warn you guys. I have read from a few places that weed lowers your blood serotonin levels.
> 
> This can do bad shit to your sleep. It makes you sleep heavier, which is no good for certain techniques.
> 
> I'm just letting you know... I won't interfere with your illegal induction method.



Take a note from Slash, Loaf.  This is the way to do it.  Bring in some evidence (which I don't actually know is true, but at least he's making an effort) instead of a shitty opinion which doesn't help anyone.





> You're supposed to be at least 15 to join this forum, and if a 15-year-old hasn't tried pot already, odds are they're not gonna do it for this reason alone without giving it a little bit of rational thought initially....



Exactly.  Exactly.  Exactly!  Can't use the "oh won't somebody PLEEASE think of the children" line on this forum Loaf.





> Inhaling burning ash in any form is not healthy.



I'll just answer this with a quote 



> By the way, if your inhaling ashes you're doing it wrong. No wonder you don't like it.







> Because unlike you addicted stoners, I can stop eating bad foods or burn it off in days.



Hey I can burn a joint off in 5 minutes!!!!  ::lol::  ::lol::  ::D:  ::D: 
But seriously, burning that fat off doesn't mean it's not bad for you.  Fatty foods clog up your arteries too.





> You smoke something, you get addicted to it.



Wrong.  Nobody with an IQ above 70 still believes Cannabis is addictive.




> You shared your poison with everyone else.



What?  When?  When did I ever share my poison with somebody else?  I guess you're referring to second hand smoke  :Bang head:   All the potentially harmful things contained in Cannabis are inhaled in to my lungs.  Don't worry you won't get high from inhaling a particle of pot smoke.




> Your clothes stink of smoke.



_O RLY!?_
If you're one of the 5 people in the world who _don't_ think Cannabis is the single greatest smell on Earth, don't hang around people who smoke Cannabis.  Easy enough right?




> You damage your body more than eating one too many cream cakes would do. So by all means, suck in that poison. I don't give a shit if you die. Enjoy it. I could eat plenty of shit and I wouldn't cause as much harm as breathing in pot. Pot will fuck your brain up. Fatty foods wont.



Fatty foods DO fuck up your brain.  They makes you slow and tired and completely lacking in energy because you're too fat, basically.  You also can't fight off diseases as easily and are WAY more likely to die of a heart attack or stroke; Two things which Cannabis actually PREVENTS you from getting, because it widens the arteries.
Can you prove that Cannabis does more damage than cream cakes?  No, you can't, it's just your uninformed, hateful and sheeple _belief__._





> Wrong.



Oh, 'wrong' hey?
Again, another VERY constructive post. A+, A+.





> Stop trying to justify your smoking. YOU are the one that is ignorant if you thinking smoking is anything other than unhealthy. Don't bring up other health issues to try and move the spotlight off smoking. Its not a competition to see what kills you faster. Either way, you are killing yourself. Enjoy cancer you fool.



Cannabis also hasn't been shown to cause Cancer.  In fact, the largest study EVER done (600,000 people) proved that those who smoked Cannabis had ZERO increased risk of cancer compared to those who didn't smoke anything.  And people who smoked Cannabis _and_ Cigarettes still had no increased risk of Cancer compared to non-smokers.  Indicating that Cannabis probably has some ANTI-cancerous properties!  :smiley: 

Plus, smoking is not necessary, one can eat it or vaporize it.

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## Boogaloojay

> Ok, but....
> That is not the way to do it.  People are going to laugh at you when you come in acting all righteous or just simply say "you addicted stoners are teh moronz"
> 
> 
> 
> Take a note from Slash, Loaf.  This is the way to do it.  Bring in some evidence (which I don't actually know is true, but at least he's making an effort) instead of a shitty opinion which doesn't help anyone.
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Exactly.  Exactly!  Can't use the "oh won't somebody PLEEASE think of the children" line on this forum Loaf.
> ...



 Thank god it was you and not me that had to write that up. I can't believe some people think weed makes you a dumbass. If you're a dumbass then you were before you started smoking and nothing will change if you stop. 

p.s. Weeds better then fat, you can't get high off fat.  ::D:  jk, to each his own. I've never forced anyone to smoke. I ask once and if their not interested their not getting any. I smoke, watch some movies and eat cookies (yeah, fatty ones) and then go to bed. What harm does it do? If people don't care what we do to ourselves then why do they always try and tell us the dangers??  ::roll::  

Edit: To try and keep this on topic, I don't recommend smoking weed to LD. It may work for some people but I think for the majority it just blocks dreams out including myself.

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## lucid4sho

> Funny you don't see many old fat people, plenty of old stoner though. Strange how that works. For your information most people can stop smoking whenever they want to. It's not mentally addicting at all and that's a fact. Obviously I'll smoke when I get more but I'm not suffering at all by not smoking. Unlike cigs and alcohol, which by the way I do neither. You really think people have died from smoking weed? Not nearly as many as cigs. It's not healthy because it's still smoke but you really think it's as harmful as you say it is you either have a personal vendetta or you're just ignorant.



Are you being serious, marijuana has tremendous addiction potential. Trust me I sold literally tons of weed for 8+ years. I also sold a lot of cocaine and honestly, in terms of addiction, most the pot heads were nearly as bad as the coke heads.

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## Loaf

Okay, so obviously I was basing my facts on other forms of smoking, but regardless of what I posted the point still remains. I still feel that using pot to make yourself lucid is just stupid, and it just sounds like another excuse to take more pot.

Linkeh:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ink.html?cat=5

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## lucid4sho

> Cannabis also hasn't been shown to cause Cancer.  In fact, the largest study EVER done (600,000 people) proved that those who smoked Cannabis had ZERO increased risk of cancer compared to those who didn't smoke anything.  And people who smoked Cannabis _and_ Cigarettes still had no increased risk of Cancer compared to non-smokers.  Indicating that Cannabis probably has some ANTI-cancerous properties!



You got a reference for this study ?

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## Lucid_Guy.exe

> Not worth it. I'd rather stop lucid dreaming all together than use this method.



Yes, I also agree.  Leave this method to the friggin _stoners._ :Sad:

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## lucid4sho

> Okay, so obviously I was basing my facts on other forms of smoking, but regardless of what I posted the point still remains. I still feel that using pot to make yourself lucid is just stupid, and it just sounds like another excuse to take more pot.



Absolutely. I've seen many people go from straight edge to pot head and many times I see their life spiral downwards, they lose motivation, grades drop, start slacking at work, start neglecting their partner, stop exercising, etc... 

I have also seen the exact opposite happen, but the point is marijuana can potentially have devastating negative effects on a persons life, so it should not be taken lightly.

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## Boogaloojay

> Are you being serious, marijuana has tremendous addiction potential. Trust me I sold literally tons of weed for 8+ years. I also sold a lot of cocaine and honestly, in terms of addiction, most the pot heads were nearly as bad as the coke heads.



 Are you being serious? Just look it up. There is not a single addictive chemical in there. Mental addiction isn't the same as phyical addiction. I think in my earlier post I accidentally said it isn't mentally addicting, I meant to say phyically. 

Wanting to smoke more doesn't mean your addicted to it. It mean you like it. It's not a big deal when you have none. Try quitting smoking and you'll be sick. Try stop using coke and you'll be sick. Try stopping alcohol and you'll be sick. Try to stop smoking weed and the worst that will happen is your bored for a day and you might have a hard time eating and sleeping for one to two days. 

Comparing weed to coke and harder drugs is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long while. I wouldn't be bragging about selling something that carries 20 years behind bars if you're caught. Not judging, I just hope you arn't as open with people face to face. I doubt you sold TONS of weed, moving a pound in a week is damn good so that doesn't add up but thats a conversation for another forum.

You may have had people buying weed  like crazy but bottom line is when these people couldn't get it they weren't bed ridden with sickness from the with-drawals. 

And loaf, I already said that I don't recommend it for LDing so if your so blind or biased that you can't follow a sentence then maybe you should move on to another thread? I don't need an excuse for smoking and I sure as HELL don't need to justify my own choices to you. Just remember, I hate you ( Mr. High and mighty) just as much as you hate me ( stoner). The difference is you dislike me because me because I smoke. In other words you judged me based on my smoking. I dislike you not because of you're anti-weed mentality, it's your right, but because you seem to think it's your duty to inform everyone else the dangers of it. I can assure you that you will not be the straw that breaks the camels back on whether someone smokes or not.

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## Boogaloojay

> Absolutely. I've seen many people go from straight edge to pot head and many times I see their life spiral downwards, they lose motivation, grades drop, start slacking at work, start neglecting their partner, stop exercising, etc... 
> 
> I have also seen the exact opposite happen, but the point is marijuana can potentially have devastating negative effects on a persons life, so it should not be taken lightly.



I can at least agree with the second half of your post. Some people are just idiots and shouldn't smoke. I'm not saying that it's something that is completely risk free, it's just that people should be allowed to do what they want with their own bodies. Hell, if you sold then people putting things in their body is what made your good money I bet.

----------


## Loaf

> Just remember, I hate you ( Mr. High and mighty) just as much as you hate me ( stoner). The difference is you dislike me because me because I smoke. In other words you judged me based on my smoking.



I don't hate you.  :Sad: 
I don't judge you for being a smoker. I judge you for trying to make smoking sound acceptable.

----------


## MementoMori

Smoking is harmful to the lungs. So extract the THC from the plant and take it directly... Solves the harmful part.

The drug is NOT addictive, the habits of putting the joint in ones mouth and inhaling might become so... (probably not as that i've smoked weed for ten years now and i'm still not fond of having to smoke it, i love directly taking it)... The idea that people's live's are ruined because of the drug is ridiculous! FUCKING RIDICULOUS! It's those people's problem with self reliance and willpower! they were probably hanging on by a thread in there "better" live's and the pot gave them a sudden release from the stress and they became addicted to that release and not the herb, they didn't know how to handle the gift the plant provided to them. Those people usually have the same problems with video games and women... trust me... I was one of them for about two years, then i had a son and wised the fuck up! i agree weed is not for everyone, but it's not for anyone to say who it's not/or is for.... it's the persons choice solely.If that persons life is ruined because of it, then that's there choice to live a shitty life, you don't have to live it for them. Instead of bashing the plant how about just advising that if it isn't used responsibly then it can cause harm in your life, that's the real way to make an impact on someone who's thinking about using it.... 

Marijuana, consumed for the abilities and gifts it has to offer is not a devil, it is not an evil, anything abused and used irresponsibly can lead to harm in ones life.... this argument could be waged about anything... but what is in the spotlight of evil is Marijuana and not children receiving drivers licenses at too little driving experience, or religious societies belittling those they find lacking in their god's eyes, or even governments neglecting their own. Instead we're waging war against a plant that sprung forth from the earth naturally that helps some of us deal with these twisted, side fucked screwballs in the human populous (not intended to be directed at anyone solely that posted against pot in this forum).

Back to topic: Weed gives me 200% better LD's after i binge smoke for about a month straight... but i don't recommend that as a technique to be taken up, because it can be very costly, and you may gain some serious weight from binge smoking... Oh and i sold (don't now) for a long time too, not TONS lol but i sold alot, payed for my tv, gamesystem, couch, chair, tons of food, my car and my wife's car... but the pot heads didn't bug me when i didn't have any pot, it was the cokeheads calling me every three hours bitching at me because i needed to get my life together and be a full time dealer. The potheads were like "hmm, aight i'll see you later at poker night bra, take care man love ya"....

----------


## lucid4sho

> I think in my earlier post I accidentally said it isn't mentally addicting, I meant to say phyically.



No prob, I'll cut ya some slack since your probably high.
I saw several studies supporting that marijuana lacks physically addictive properties over 10 years ago. This is good in many ways, only thing is that the mind controls everything, and if the mental addiction is strong enough, it can produce withdrawal symptoms that rival that of physically addictive drugs.






> Try to stop smoking weed and the worst that will happen is your bored for a day and you might have a hard time eating and sleeping for one to two days.



This may be your own and many others experience, it is definitely not everyones. I have seen many people experience a wide variety of physical symptoms from marijuana withdrawal, do a search, there are many online reports. I even had a friend who consistently started to vomit or dry heave when he ran out of weed for more than a few days. 






> Comparing weed to coke and harder drugs is the dumbest thing I've heard in a long while. I wouldn't be bragging about selling something that carries 20 years behind bars if you're caught. Not judging, I just hope you arn't as open with people face to face. I doubt you sold TONS of weed, moving a pound in a week is damn good so that doesn't add up but thats a conversation for another forum.



I agree that marijuana is extremely unique, for one THC has nearly no toxicity and is not even an alkaloid, two things that completely set it apart from nearly every other drug on the planet. At the same time, its an addictive drug that gets you high and has side effects, this makes it very comparable to harder street drugs. 

Not really worried about getting locked up for dealing drugs years ago. You are right though, doing the math now I probably sold a little less than 500lbs in about 8 years, but if you count the amount of weed I smoked myself and with others then I don't even want to know that number.






> You may have had people buying weed  like crazy but bottom line is when these people couldn't get it they weren't bed ridden with sickness from the with-drawals.



I actually experienced the exact opposite, pot heads seem to fiend nearly as hard as any drug addict, I would get calls at all hours from stoners begging me to sell them weed, their state of mind and story would be just as desperate and anxiety ridden as my cocaine clients. 

The only difference was the stoners were a little better at acting like its not a big deal, probably because in their mind they are in denial that they are truly addicted.





> Just remember, I hate you ( Mr. High and mighty) just as much as you hate me ( stoner).



No reason to bring hate into this, its just a debate. I love everyone on this forum.

----------


## Nathan

Loaf have you heard of a vape? also you can cook with it so you dont even need to smoke to get high. The stuff is a lot safer than cigs and alochol. Also ALOT of people smoke soap bar (hashish mixed with all kinds of things..(milk powder, engine oil, cooking oil, glass, sand the list goes on and on) Also even buds can be sprayed with many things to make them weight more. This maybe why they vomited or suffered withdrawals.

I dont think ive had a proper lucid dream before so cant comment on that part. Im a newbie to lucid dreams :p

----------


## Boogaloojay

> I don't hate you. 
> I don't judge you for being a smoker. I judge you for trying to make smoking sound acceptable.



Hate was a bad word to use. I hate what you're trying to make weed out to be, not you personally. I never tried to make it seem acceptable, but why isn't it? You're own beliefs? Their exactly that, you're own beliefs. I have no trouble with peoples beliefs but it's when they try and spread their own beliefs to other people and tack on their own bias. I'll admit I'm biased just like you're being.

How about we just agree to disagree here? Where not going to convince each other or anybody else our way is right, were just gonna make an ass of ourselves and get nothing done. I'll keep thinking my way is right and you keep thinking yours is right. If I'm still alive in 20 years I'll let you know I was right and if I'm not, then I'll leave you a crisp $100 in my will.  ::D: 

I really don't feel like arguing this out anymore because to be honest I've had this discussion a shitload of times and everytime ( except once) it's ended with nobody having convinced anybody of anything. So have a good day buddy errrrr... Bud.  ::D:

----------


## MementoMori

I'll disagree with you for $100 ::D:  lol j/k

----------


## Boogaloojay

> I'll disagree with you for $100 lol j/k



You'll have to wait a few years...and that's with no interest.  ::D:

----------


## MementoMori

lol ↑

----------


## katielovestrees

What lucid4sho said.

----------


## tommo

> You got a reference for this study ?



Yes.  Since you haven't provided any references for your claims I thought I wouldn't bother.  But here it is.http://www.medpagetoday.com/Hematolo...ungCancer/3393
Mind you this guy has been studying Cannabis for 40 years or something I think it was.  Can't remember exactly the time now but he has been trying to prove that it causes cancer a many many years.  He finally came out with this study which proves otherwise.  So I congratulate him on not just burying positive results.  He's a real scientist.
I can't fin the massive study now but that one's good enough.

Here is a discussion of the study.
http://respiratoryrally.org/lung-can...tudy-pt-1-of-2




> Absolutely. I've seen many people go from straight edge to pot head and many times I see their life spiral downwards, they lose motivation, grades drop, start slacking at work, start neglecting their partner, stop exercising, etc... 
> 
> I have also seen the exact opposite happen, but the point is marijuana can potentially have devastating negative effects on a persons life, so it should not be taken lightly.



No it shouldn't be taken lightly at all.  But if people are already smoking, what's the harm in trying to use it to LD?
Especially if we find that you must take advantage of the rebound effect to get a lucid dream.  This would mean *stopping* smoking for a while to experience the effect.
We aren't encouraging anyone to START smoking just to LD.  That would be irresponsible.
You said 'grades drop', which indicates you're talking about kids at school or uni.  I would never encourage anyone under ~25 to smoke Cannabis.  The brain is still developing in to the early 20's.  Cannabis CAN change the way the brain develops.  But whether that's a good or a bad change depends upon the person.  Some people end up better off if they smoke Cannabis from a younger age, like around ~13-14.
For example it's proven that it can help people with ADHD.  And I've seen this and heard other people talk about their friends with ADHD, that when they started smoking Cannabis, they were much more able to work and talk without being distracted etc.  If they *hadn't* smoked when they were young, theirgrades would drop and they would be all round hard to deal with etc. etc.
Some people report that they can't concentrate while high, which would explain the things that you've seen.  But you've got a biased view point so it's completely unscientific.
There's probably more studies for this but this is the first one I could find, http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/...l.php?id=162#4





> I don't hate you. 
> I don't judge you for being a smoker. I judge you for trying to make smoking sound acceptable.



Why shouldn't it be acceptable?  It should be acceptable for anyone to put anything they bloody well want in to their OWN BODIES!!!!





> No prob, I'll cut ya some slack since your probably high.



All this does is expound your bias.  People make mistakes, you don't have to be high to do that.




> I saw several studies supporting that marijuana lacks physically addictive properties over 10 years ago. This is good in many ways, only thing is that the mind controls everything, and if the mental addiction is strong enough, it can produce withdrawal symptoms that rival that of physically addictive drugs.



Buh-Bow (<< the sound of wrong  ::lol:: ).  Show me any evidence that this is true.  Mental dependence cannot come anywhere near physical.  In fact this makes me want to smack people silly.  It's like video game addiction.  It's fucking BULLSHIT!!!!!!!  As was said once on 'Boston Legal', "I would like to see the reaction on a Heroin addicts face when you tell them you are addicted to video games!".  The same is true for Cannabis.  It has NO addictive chemicals, so it is just as addictive as video games or running.

Also, the 'mind' does not control everything.  The brain does.  Of course the 'mind' is in the brain, but it's just a part of us that we can control, like what we want to do etc.  The rest of the brain is off limits to most people, like only very experienced yogi's etc. can control pain and shut down body organs etc.  The mind could produce those physical symptoms of withdrawal though, IF the person (mind) THINKS that it _will_.  And who do you think puts this idea in those peoples heads?  Propaganda. (and people who believe propaganda, like you)  If everyone is telling someone that smoking weed and then stopping is going to produce Heroin-level withdrawals, that person will experience something similar, but still not AS bad.
BUT if someone knows that it isn't addictive, they will not experience any withdrawals (beyond boredom for a couple of days) because there is no physical chemical reaction happening in the brain to make those withdrawals happen.

In other words, the brain could trick the person in to withdrawals from Cannabis, a la placebo effect, but this is only if they are lied to by everyone and told that it will produce those effects and they start to believe it.

----------


## damanptyltd

You know, i don't have a problem with other people smoking, i just prefer not to. But since there are some influence-able 15 - 18 kids around, there should be a distinct 18+ only warning in the thread title. Would keep alot of anti drug people off your back. I would be happy with that. Although most, as someone said, would have tried it by 15 if they were going to try it at all, but who are we to say that? They are not classified as adults, and so should not be exposed to these type of topics. Not because they are terrible suicidal acts within, but they should remain oblivious to as many POSSIBLE negative influences until they are of an age were they are classified as an adult and can make those choice themselves.

Same reason why it is thought that kids shouldn't swear. It is something that they can choose to do when they are old enough to fully understand the consequences of there actions. When they grow up, we couldn't give two shits if they swear. Almost the same in my mind goes with Drug use.

----------


## lucid4sho

> Yes.  Since you haven't provided any references for your claims I thought I wouldn't bother.  But here it is.



Not sure what claim you are referring to but let me know if you'd like a reference for something. 






> and people who smoked Cannabis and Cigarettes still had no increased risk of Cancer compared to non-smokers. Indicating that Cannabis probably has some ANTI-cancerous properties!



"Dr. Tashkin was quick to point out, however, that marijuana does not appear to have a protective effect against cancer." Quote from your reference.

I wasn't doubting that Marijuana doesn't significantly increase the risk of cancer, I just knew you had made that last part up.






> No it shouldn't be taken lightly at all.  But if people are already smoking, what's the harm in trying to use it to LD?
> Especially if we find that you must take advantage of the rebound effect to get a lucid dream.  This would mean *stopping* smoking for a while to experience the effect.
> We aren't encouraging anyone to START smoking just to LD.  That would be irresponsible.



That was my point. If you already smoke then go ahead and experiment, just don't start smoking for the sole purpose of LDing. I said we shouldn't take it lightly, I didn't mean to point any fingers or accuse anyone of encouraging people to smoke.






> You said 'grades drop', which indicates you're talking about kids at school or uni.  I would never encourage anyone under ~25 to smoke Cannabis.  The brain is still developing in to the early 20's.  Cannabis CAN change the way the brain develops.  But whether that's a good or a bad change depends upon the person.  .



Well said.






> Some people end up better off if they smoke Cannabis from a younger age, like around ~13-14 . For example it's proven that it can help people with ADHD.  And I've seen this and heard other people talk about their friends with ADHD, that when they started smoking Cannabis, they were much more able to work and talk without being distracted etc.  If they *hadn't* smoked when they were young, theirgrades would drop and they would be all round hard to deal with etc. etc.
> Some people report that they can't concentrate while high, which would explain the things that you've seen.



Sure, marijuana can potentially be beneficial for all sorts of conditions, its probably the most valuable medicinal plant on earth. 






> But you've got a biased view point so it's completely unscientific.



Do you know what biased means? I'm clearly on both sides of this debate. 






> All this does is expound your bias.  People make mistakes, you don't have to be high to do that.



Lighten up, I'm trying to interject some humor, I smoke weed too.






> Mental dependence cannot come anywhere near physical.  In fact this makes me want to smack people silly.  It's like video game addiction.  It's fucking BULLSHIT!!!!!!!  As was said once on 'Boston Legal', "I would like to see the reaction on a Heroin addicts face when you tell them you are addicted to video games!".  The same is true for Cannabis.  It has NO addictive chemicals, so it is just as addictive as video games or running.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc
This video says it all..


Again, its just a debate no reason to lose your cool.

----------


## GreyDecay

> Okay, so obviously I was basing my facts on other forms of smoking, but regardless of what I posted the point still remains. I still feel that using pot to make yourself lucid is just stupid, and it just sounds like another excuse to take more pot.



Ah, Loaf, I understand where you're coming from. I see your point, but the fact is that it would be better made elsewhere. You made the mistake of posting something bad about weed in a thread full of people who smoke it and are no doubt well versed in the facts, statistics, and experiences of weed. Its (in my opinion) kind of like a Christian posting bible verses in a thread about legalizing gay marriage. Now I could probably try to argue with you and provide evidence that proves you were mistaken, but I think you've learned your lesson  :wink2:

----------


## tommo

> You know, i don't have a problem with other ........



Well, who's to say that 18 is the age that people can make informed decisions, taking in to account the repercussions?  IMO people should be able to get any information they want at any age.  We shouldn't restrict knowledge, otherwise where does it stop?





> "Dr. Tashkin was quick to point out, however, that marijuana does not appear to have a protective effect against cancer." Quote from your reference.
> 
> I wasn't doubting that Marijuana doesn't significantly increase the risk of cancer, I just knew you had made that last part up.



Oh, okay then, check here. http://cannalink.org/granny/Physical/CANCER/

I didn't realise you were arguing both sides, I tend to not take much notice of user names most of the time.  Probably should start lol

----------


## lucid4sho

No prob.  I've seen studies showing that oral extracts of marijuana after anti carcinogenic effects as well as other medicinal properties that are lost when it is smoked. Only thing is I get nervous about making oral extracts because whatever chemical fertilizers were used and such are going to enter you more so than when smoking it. If only it were legal we could buy certified organic extracts.

----------


## Motumz

You are literally the biggest moron on this forum, Loaf. Fine, we won't inhale the ash. I'll just use my vaporizer! Dumbass. And if that's not good enough, I'll make some "special" brownies. I'm not even inhaling it now, I'm eating it. And you know what?.. It tastes great you dumbass prude.

Smoking pot is excepted everywhere. There are more people that smoke it, than who don't. It's just not excepted by close-minded people like you. You don't like to live or have fun. You just like to ruin everyone else's fun. But it's okay, regardless of your worthless opinion, I will smoke anyways. In fact, I'll roll a nice ole blunt just for you and smoke it this afternoon, on 4:20. Cheers Loaf.


Oh and if you want to argue that my pot isn't clean or pure enough. Wrong. I buy / smoke it with my friend Scotty who grows his own Kush & Dro. I've even helped him at some points.

But I do realize that buying pot from strangers can be dangerous or harmful to some extent. That's why you should always know the dealer  :smiley:

----------


## lucid4sho

> Oh and if you want to argue that my pot isn't clean or pure enough. Wrong. I buy / smoke it with my friend Scotty who grows his own Kush & Dro. I've even helped him at some points.



Admit you use drugs all you want, but why take the chance of narcing out your buddy for growing it. I know its extremely unlikely to be investigated due to an internet post, but why even take the chance.

Most people don't have the luxury of first hand knowing a grower, probably because most growers are smart enough not to tell people, because they might go run their mouth and tell everyone, perfect example.

----------


## katielovestrees

> Well, who's to say that 18 is the age that people can make informed decisions, taking in to account the repercussions?  IMO people should be able to get any information they want at any age.  We shouldn't restrict knowledge, otherwise where does it stop?



Exactly exactly exactly exactly 110%. 

Someone drew a connection between drugs and swearing or whatever, just like to say that this ^ is essentially my answer to that, and the reason why I'm against censorship, and abstinence teaching and whatnot.

----------


## Boogaloojay

> Yes.  Since you haven't provided any references for your claims I thought I wouldn't bother.  But here it is.http://www.medpagetoday.com/Hematolo...ungCancer/3393
> Mind you this guy has been studying Cannabis for 40 years or something I think it was.  Can't remember exactly the time now but he has been trying to prove that it causes cancer a many many years.  He finally came out with this study which proves otherwise.  So I congratulate him on not just burying positive results.  He's a real scientist.
> I can't fin the massive study now but that one's good enough.
> 
> Here is a discussion of the study.
> http://respiratoryrally.org/lung-can...tudy-pt-1-of-2
> 
> No it shouldn't be taken lightly at all.  But if people are already smoking, what's the harm in trying to use it to LD?
> Especially if we find that you must take advantage of the rebound effect to get a lucid dream.  This would mean *stopping* smoking for a while to experience the effect.
> ...



The brain is still growing into the 20's but it's been shown that that negative effect isn't there if they start smoking AFTER 13 years old. ( aprox) I watched a neat, unbiased documentary where they admit they don't know what the effects of having bot anti-cancerous and cancerous chemicals so I won't say it cancels anything out.

I agree with the rest though. :smiley:

----------


## Loaf

> You are literally the biggest moron on this forum, Loaf.



Getting angry are we?
Oh, did I touch a nerve? Or are you just high.






> Its (in my opinion) kind of like a Christian posting bible verses in a thread about legalizing gay marriage.



Ha ha, yeah thats a good analogy. 
My point remains valid.

----------


## MementoMori

To answer this post honestly, i haven't smoked in about two months because i've been trying to get this job, but for Christmas a friend got me some kush and actually found me pipe just like the one Gandolf uses in the movies, the long thin one, and he got it for me for Christmas. He knew about me trying to get the job so he got me some stuff to clean me out in case i get called in for a D-test here in the next couple days. Any who, i put on some deep meditation music and meditated for about an hour to get all this stress off my mind, then once i felt connected well enough to mind subCon i smoked a bowl, anyone who smokes knows that's not alot but it'll get the job done for a little bit. Which is just what i needed. At the peak of my high i laid down and relaxed but kept my awareness by counting my breathing and MAKING SURE NOT TO GET DISTRACTED by anything, i still had the meditation music going. Now i've also been in a dry spell of LD's lately, all my dreams have been real mucky and hard to concentrate on. But as i slipped into my dream i swear to anybody's god i thought i failed and was laying in my floor staring at my ceiling. So i sat up and looked around. it just so happened that my house "left out" the windows lol. 

  So i thought about the windows and vwip! they grew into the spots where they needed to be. I decided not to do anything crazy but just flex my Lucidness. So i looked at my couch and turned it from it's brown color to white, then again to brown. I felt satisfied with my amount of control so i sat on my couch and began to watch tv but the show looked like blobs of colors interacting, i could understand the show that was on but couldn't tell what it was. That's when i bailed the dream and woke up.... That small bowl of kush after not smoking for a decent amount of time induced a pretty decent Lucid dream for me. I do not recommend smoking for anyone under the legal age of adulthood just out of respect of their parents but if you're an adult, this could have benefits of over-coming a dry spell for you AGAIN: IT MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP OVER COME A DRY SPELL OF LUCID DREAMING, IT HELPED ME. Do not base any decision solely on my input though. 

Please and thank you... 
_MementoMori_

----------


## lucid4sho

hey memento be careful using a detox product, they are far from full proof and more and more labs are able to detect them. I highly recommend you get yourself the number 1 or some other synthetic urine product, their pricey, but full proof.

----------


## MementoMori

yeah, it's just a allergy medicine sold over the counter that flushes your sinus congestion outta your bladder and um colon and just so happens to help clean the THC particles left behind from smoking. It's pretty handy... appreciate the advice though.

----------


## Kromoh

Can't believe I missed this thread.

In theory, cannabis is supposed to help with DILDs but not with WILDs. Cannabis is melatonergic, and thus increases dream vividness and is affects sleep depth. The same could be said about some antidepressants, etc. But it affects short-term memory and focus, which *really* hinders WILD and its variations.

My only concern is it being just like coffee, as in, being addicted to it makes it work less and less over time. In this case, physiological addiction really is the problem to be discussed.

I wish there were studies over this.

----------


## MementoMori

i'm pretty sure i got a REM rebound off of it last night too

----------


## Motumz

> Getting angry are we?
> Oh, did I touch a nerve? Or are you just high.



Not at all. I just think it's funny how you think you're so smart with your prudent attitude towards pot. Relax and get laid you faggot  ::roll:: 


Shit we got off track though. Anyways, I liked your post *MementoMori*. But I got confused, did you have a REM-Rebound when you smoked? Or a couple nights after you smoked?

----------


## lucid4sho

> Not at all. I just think it's funny how you think you're so smart with your prudent attitude towards pot. Relax and get laid you faggot



not acceptable talk here, you should be banned.

----------


## Loaf

> it's funny how you think you're so smart



No, I'm just finding it a bit off that the argument has started to imply taking pot is just as fine as not taking pot. You might not mean to say that, but thats the impression I am getting from this topic. Frankly its annoying me.
I understand that you are saying pot isn't as bad as most other drugs (whether that is true or not) but that hardly makes it 100% safe. There are a few here who obviously accept that which is fine, but there are a bunch that seem to have a level of ignorance.

----------


## Motumz

> not acceptable talk here, you should be banned.



Ok? I thought the age limit on this forum was like 13 or something? He's mature, I'm not gonna make him cry.. So relax fool.





> but that hardly makes it 100% safe.



Ok. That's fine, and I understand that. But that's how this all got started. You say there are bad qualities in pot, but what you don't say is WHY (i do think you stated some reasons earlier, but that was after everyone started getting defensive 'n shit) Which is what pushes our buttons. Because there have been many people (mostly in my life) who will judge me for smoking pot. Which I don't really mind, cause if they judge me.. hah.. I don't even want to be their fuckin friend in the first place. But anyways, they never say why they hate pot. Or why it's such a "bad" drug.. so they say. They've just been influenced by other assholes who don't know what they are talking about (i'm not relating to anyone here) Which is mainly how pot gots it's horrible reputation. Is basically from lies. Because frankly.. EVERYTHING can be bad for you. I can drink to much *water* and die.

But uhhhh.. I kinda forgot what I was getting at. No, not cause I smoke pot  ::lol::  I'm just tired and sick haha. But anyways, dunno if this post has cleared anything up but whatever. Going to bed..  :tongue2:

----------


## lucid4sho

> Ok? I thought the age limit on this forum was like 13 or something? He's mature, I'm not gonna make him cry.. So relax fool.



Exactly, you act younger than 13 so you should be banned. 

I've done my share of insulting but it is uncalled for to use hate or race slurs.

----------


## Loaf

Yeah okay so I am gonna leave this. 
I've gotten so tied up in this shit I've forgotten that I too hate it when people try and force their beliefs on you and start telling you what you should and shouldn't be doing.
I still dislike the use of pot, but not enough to bitch about it. Even if I did go on its not going to do much else than cause repetitive arguments.

----------


## Motumz

I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. Don't be a mini-mod. If Loaf feels that I have used hate or race slurs towards him and feels he needs to send a complaint than he can do so and I will *happily* be warned or banned  ::D: 

Yea exactly. Thanks Loaf. Anyways.. not sure if this topic is salvageable.. BUT hopefully it is  :smiley:

----------


## Loaf

While I appreciate lucid4sho's comments, I don't care so much about Motumz "hate". Its pretty common on the net.
Although I dunno if thats the kind of way you should treat members anyway.

----------


## lucid4sho

> I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. Don't be a mini-mod. If Loaf feels that I have used hate or race slurs towards him and feels he needs to send a complaint than he can do so and I will *happily* be warned or banned 
> 
> Yea exactly. Thanks Loaf. Anyways.. not sure if this topic is salvageable.. BUT hopefully it is



The whole point of slurs is that they are generalized and they insult a group of people even when its directed at one person. 

well said loaf, I've made all the points i intended to in this thread so its time a unsubscribe too. see yall in the next pot debate lol.

----------


## Nathan

I think people just need to get over the fact pot is in a way harmful but what isnt? choose what you want to do and do it.

----------


## TweaK

On-topic: I quit smoking now so I'm not going to be able to experiment anymore, but I've been smoking and "LDing" (in a certain sense) for well over 4 years, and in most cases I found it killed all recall. Smoking weed has always put me in a very deep, trance-like sleep with little dreams.

Semi off-topic: Loaf, 




> I judge you for trying to make smoking sound acceptable.



Why wouldn't it be acceptable? What makes it unacceptable? What or who defines what is acceptable and what isn't? I'm guessing your "acceptable" is defined by society. That's quite unfortunate, because lots of things that are socially acceptable or unacceptable should actually be the other way around. Why is alcohol acceptable, but smoking - and I'm talking about purely smoking weed, not smoking several cigarettes on a daily, if not hourly basis - which is not as harmful for you, isn't? Weed was made "unacceptable" in the day purely for economical and political reasons, and the unacceptability has stuck ever since (look in the marijuana topic in ED). 

I can understand some people despise the sense of smoke hanging around them (I personally despise tobacco smoke, despite having smoked cannabis mixed with tobacco for years), but that's something different from "making smoking sound acceptable". It's a shame people are so narrow-minded, really.

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## MementoMori

> Why wouldn't it be acceptable? What makes it unacceptable? What or who defines what is acceptable and what isn't? I'm guessing your "acceptable" is defined by society. That's quite unfortunate, because lots of things that are socially acceptable or unacceptable should actually be the other way around. Why is alcohol acceptable, but smoking - and I'm talking about purely smoking weed, not smoking several cigarettes on a daily, if not hourly basis - which is not as harmful for you, isn't? Weed was made "unacceptable" in the day purely for economical and political reasons, and the unacceptability has stuck ever since (look in the marijuana topic in ED).



very good point Tweak, very correct.

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## tommo

> I'm just finding it a bit off that the argument has started to imply taking pot is just as fine as not taking pot.



And smoking Cannabis should be just as acceptable as not smoking it.  We're not saying it's more acceptable, we;re saying it doesn't matter.
As for being 'fine'.... It is.  On a health basis, it's probably better to smoke weed than to not for some people.  For example stress is the single biggest killer, Cannabis relieves stress.  So it would make you live longer if you smoke it to relax, if you get stressed out too easily.

So far the only PROVEN "bad" side effect of Cannabis is memory loss.  Which can actually be GOOD for PTSD etc.  Plus you just forget all the shit that doesn't matter.  I think it was Joe Rogan who said "you don't need to remember the face of every person on the train on your way to work".  Or random useless statistics etc.

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## Motumz

I actually just realised that. Pot does make me loose SOME memory. But when I think hard, the things I generally forgot about, was all useless shit.

Also, poeple need to understand what Tommo said.. "And smoking Cannabis should be just as acceptable as not smoking it. We're not saying it's more acceptable, we're saying it doesn't matter."

The people against pot in this topic are not getting those 2 sentences through their head. Maybe they just don't want to accept it?..

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## tommo

> The people against pot in this topic are not getting those 2 sentences through their head. Maybe they just don't want to accept it?..



Probably don't want to lol.  If it's just that they don't want to, those people won't change with reason either, they'll only change when they decide to for whatever reason (like the need it for some medical condition) or when the majority opinion changes.

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## Motumz

> Probably don't want to lol.  If it's just that they don't want to, those people won't change with reason either, they'll only change when they decide to for whatever reason (like the need it for some medical condition) or when the majority opinion changes.



Exactly!  ::roll:: 


But back on subject haha, I find when I pass out instead of 'going to sleep, or going to bed', I don't remember my dreams. And when I get blazed at night, I usually pass out haha. 

So I was thinking, maybe if I get high, I just go to bed. Instead of passing out randomly. I'll have to test sometime this week. Maybe it will work? I'm guessing it would work best if you don't get blazed. I was thinking just a baby high, then go to sleep.

I'll post my results later this week  ::D:

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## tommo

Usually what works for me is just a little bit just before bed or get mildly stoned a couple hours before, so it's just wearing off as you go to sleep and you're still really relaxed and sleep deeply.
I find if I get really blazed right before goin to sleep (which I never do anymore) I have a restless sleep and wake up sweatin' my ass off.  Maybe it's just Sativa though, but I don't really have a choice in what strain I smoke lol so it's a gamble really.

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## Motumz

Ok I just tried it last night. I fell asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. I remember 2 extremely vivid dreams.

I smoked around 6. I got pretty damn high. The high lasted 10 minutes before I went to bed. I went to bed at 10.

Of course, I need to test somemore, and I will. I will try getting fairly buzzed or just a baby high tonight and see what happens.


*Also, @Tommo,* Is Sativa the the other "type" of pot that growns in South America that actually is alot more hulucinaginic? I just heard about it yesterday, but as I said.. I was stoned and can't exactly remember the name. But what I remember is it can't really grow up here in America. Too dry. But it makes you trip alot more.

Anyone know what that is? Or am I just completely mistaken haha?  ::lol::

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## tommo

Haha well I dunno about south america.  I know Africa has some extremely potent Sativa's.  100% landrace Sativa's.  And yes they are VERY hallucinogenic.
I personally hate them because they make me paranoid though.  I'd love to love it but I can't haha.
But Sativa and Indica are BOTH grown all over the world.  They aren't confined to certain areas at all.  Especially since the introduction of indoor hydroponics.
But most weed you get on the street now is gonna be a mix of Sativa and Indica.  But there's probably actually MORE percentage of Sativa in almost every country because it grows way bigger plants than Indica and thus produces more bud for the black market dealers.

So yeah to sum up Sativa can grow in America, even outdoors.  Most of the bud you buy will probably be like 80% Sativa, 20% Indica.  That's why all these old people who smoked weed once and now smoke it again out of the blue say it's so strong.  Coz it's not such a relaxing stone anymore, it's more an energizing, trippy high.  Which makes some people paranoid.  We need to get Indica's back in to the black market.  Or just legalise so people can choose what they want.

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## Motumz

Omg dude! I knew I wasn't crazy! I remember when I had retarded chill with friends high. And over time I am going on mini trips! On Monday I was walking through a park with a friend and I could of sworn I was on another planet. And then like 2 weeks ago, I thought my friend Kyle had a mouse head.. so I slapped him lol.

But in my opinion I like Sativa. It actually does the opposite. I am quite calm. Not paranoid at all. And even when I'm paranoid, I'm pretty calm about it.

But yea, they just need to legalize pot all together haha. Not that I really care, I still smoke alot anyways. But it would be nice to buy it in a store.


Haha, I want to find some 100% landrace Sativa!  ::D:

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## tommo

Check youtube for the greenhouse seed co south africa sativa.
They go to different countries to get good seeds.  IT shows 100% sativa landrace.
I don't like that company though they're arseholes so don't buy from them lol  You'll see what I mean if you watch the vid the one main guy is a cunt to the natives.

But anyway yeah Sativa almost mimics schizophrenia temporarily.  So I think it wouldn't be wise to smoke for people with anxiety or a family member who has schizophrenia.  Otherwise it's perfectly fine and fun.  They actually have done studies with, you know that illusions with a mask of Einstein that looks like it's pointing outward from both sides?  Schizophrenics actually see it how it really is, one side in and one side out, and so do people who are high lol  There's a few other things like that as well.

Here it is. 
Here's the Malawi gold one  5 parts

Personally I want to go to Kazakhstan and get basically the heirloom Cannabis.  The first Cannabis strain as far as scientists have found out.
Pure, non bred herb mmmm....

EDIT: Just have to add this lol it's so cooooool

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## Motumz

> Check youtube for the greenhouse seed co south africa sativa.
> They go to different countries to get good seeds.  IT shows 100% sativa landrace.
> I don't like that company though they're arseholes so don't buy from them lol  You'll see what I mean if you watch the vid the one main guy is a cunt to the natives.
> 
> But anyway yeah Sativa almost mimics schizophrenia temporarily.  So I think it wouldn't be wise to smoke for people with anxiety or a family member who has schizophrenia.  Otherwise it's perfectly fine and fun.  They actually have done studies with, you know that illusions with a mask of Einstein that looks like it's pointing outward from both sides?  Schizophrenics actually see it how it really is, one side in and one side out, and so do people who are high lol  There's a few other things like that as well.
> 
> Here it is. 
> Here's the Malawi gold one  5 parts
> 
> ...



The purenesss! ahhhh, must have!

But I think, can't really remember, but there is Schizophrenics and Bipolars in my family. Just uncles so far though. If I were to get a mental disorder, would it have already shown up? Or is Sativa risky for me? I really wouldn't say it would, because I've done trippy shit that would blow my mind way more than weed would. But yea, any opinions?  ::?: 


LMAO the bobcat one! That is sooo creepy!  ::D:  Imagine the robber's face when he is sneaking around a house full of those plates hahaha.

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## tommo

> The purenesss! ahhhh, must have!
> 
> But I think, can't really remember, but there is Schizophrenics and Bipolars in my family. Just uncles so far though. If I were to get a mental disorder, would it have already shown up? Or is Sativa risky for me? I really wouldn't say it would, because I've done trippy shit that would blow my mind way more than weed would. But yea, any opinions? 
> 
> 
> LMAO the bobcat one! That is sooo creepy!  Imagine the robber's face when he is sneaking around a house full of those plates hahaha.



HAHAHAHA.

Um well, are those uncles blood related? or families spouses?
Yeah it depends, it's just that the risk is heightened going by probability.  But the chances are still pretty low of you having schizophrenia anyway.
And it won't CAUSE schizophrenia, it might just make it worse.
How old are you?  Coz usually it would come out between the ages of 18 - 30.

Also I'll just add, IMO it's not the trippyness of the substance, it's just the mind-state.  As I pointed out stoned people's perception is similar to schizophrenics.  But people on mushrooms or LSD or something have a completely different mind state to schizophrenics.  So IMO it's just that schizophrenics who smoke weed, are sort of just re-inforcing that mind state in a way.  It's just my theory, but its been proven Cannabis doesn't CAUSE schizophrenia anyway.  And Cannabis Indica actually helps reduce the symptoms and sometimes even completely gets rid of schizophrenia.

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## Motumz

Yes, blood related. My dad's brothers. So far 2 of his 3 brothers are Schizophrenics and or Bipolar.

Also, I'm 16. Going to be 17 in 2 months.

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## tommo

Hm ok, Well since your dad isn't you should be ok.  You were probably lucky enough to get the good genes lol
Don't stress or anything since the chances are minimal, just if you start to notice strange things while you're not high I'd stop smoking.

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## Motumz

> Hm ok, Well since your dad isn't you should be ok.  You were probably lucky enough to get the good genes lol
> Don't stress or anything since the chances are minimal, just if you start to notice strange things while you're not high I'd stop smoking.







> *Positive Symptoms:* Positive symptoms of schizophrenia are those symptoms that involve an excess of normal bodily functions. For instance, if you are schizophrenic your senses may operate at a heightened and excessive state. Positive signs of schizophrenia include delusions, or beliefs that have no basis in reality. You may feel persecuted (paranoid delusions), you may feel as if the television or radio is talking directly to you (delusions of references), you may hold false beliefs about your physical state (somatic delusions) or you may feel that you have special abilities or powers (delusions of grandeur).
> 
> Many schizophrenics also experience hallucinations due to overactive senses. You may see things that aren't really there, you may hear people talking to you, and you may even be able to smell, touch, and taste things that other people can't. These hallucinations may be quite scary for both the schizophrenic and for family and friends.
> 
> *Disorganized Symptoms:* Disorganized symptoms are those symptoms that exhibit the confusion caused within the brain. Often, a schizophrenic will have trouble maintaining a conversation, may engage in unpredictable behaviors, or may act bizarrely in certain situations. People with schizophrenia also have difficulty achieving goals or acting with any purpose. For example, schizophrenics may hold unusual poses for extended periods of time.



Got that off of a site. That's kinda of weird because it almost seems like marijuana mimics those symptoms _(to a lesser extent)_. Especially the positive symptoms.

So basically, if I start to feel high or somewhat like a high when I'm completely sober, I should be worried?

Also, is there any way I can get Sative or Indica? Like pure, or close to it? Because I wouldn't always want to be trippin' ya know? Sometimes I just want to chill and melt into my couch  :smiley:  Is the only way to really know what you are buying is to go to a state that sells it. Such as California, and buy it in a dispensary??

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## tommo

> Got that off of a site. That's kinda of weird because it almost seems like marijuana mimics those symptoms _(to a lesser extent)_. Especially the positive symptoms.



Yeah, the thing is though, that the Cannabis high is temporary, so you can get positive things out of it.  Whereas for a schizophrenic they are like that all the time so they can't come back to a 'normal' state and think about what they experienced 'straight'.  Unless of course they take meds etc.





> So basically, if I start to feel high or somewhat like a high when I'm completely sober, I should be worried?



Don't be worried.  That's counter productive.  Don't even worry about it now, it's pointless.  Don't even think about it, just if you do experience something like that suddenly, think about seeing a psychiatrist.  But again, it;s very unlikely since you enjoy the Sativa high.  Most soon-to-be schizophrenics hate the Sativa high afaik.





> Also, is there any way I can get Sative or Indica? Like pure, or close to it? Because I wouldn't always want to be trippin' ya know? Sometimes I just want to chill and melt into my couch  Is the only way to really know what you are buying is to go to a state that sells it. Such as California, and buy it in a dispensary??



Yeah that's the only way, go to a state that has medical marijuana (check the NORML website, there's 14 states) and go to a doctor who will prescribe it, there's a site to find those doctors too lol
Otherwise buy seeds off the net, and overgrow the government!  ::D:

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## Motumz

> Yeah, the thing is though, that the Cannabis high is temporary, so you can get positive things out of it.  Whereas for a schizophrenic they are like that all the time so they can't come back to a 'normal' state and think about what they experienced 'straight'.  Unless of course they take meds etc.
> 
> 
> Don't be worried.  That's counter productive.  Don't even worry about it now, it's pointless.  Don't even think about it, just if you do experience something like that suddenly, think about seeing a psychiatrist.  But again, it;s very unlikely since you enjoy the Sativa high.  Most soon-to-be schizophrenics hate the Sativa high afaik.
> 
> 
> Yeah that's the only way, go to a state that has medical marijuana (check the NORML website, there's 14 states) and go to a doctor who will prescribe it, there's a site to find those doctors too lol
> Otherwise buy seeds off the net, and overgrow the government!



Haha I'll probably have to wait until I'm 18 though to even think about going to another state and getting a prescription  ::?:  Ohhh well, I guess I'll just try to find a hookup who knows exactly what he sells.

Hahaha and _"there's a site to find those doctors too lol"_  ::banana:: 


But thanks a ton *Tommo*. You have given me *soooooooo* much help since I've pretty much joined!  ::bowdown::

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## tommo

Haha, np mate glad to help.  Hope you find that hookup.

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## Motumz

Ok so I did more _research_ last night. I smoked a bowl an hour before I wanted to go to bed. This was actually the very first time I smoked alone.

I took my pipe and iPod and took a walk. It took me 10 minutes or so to get high. I found Psychedelic music was extremely calming. When I started to peak my imagination was exploding. It's almost like being in the middle of being conscious and dipping into your subconscious.

Almost everything I thought of became very real in my head, everything just played out without me actually thinking about every single process to make 1 thing play out.

I had noticed this a little with friends, but I never took note of it because we were always doing something, or talking.

*I agree completely with this statement:* _"weed actually takes you TO the subconscious mind."_


The high wore off about an hour of smoking. By the way, it wasn't a very big bowl. I believe I smoked the perfect amount _(or close to it)_. I wasn't high to were I couldn't control my self. I felt quite sober, but my imagination and subconscious awareness was amazing. By the time I got in bed, I just felt good. My muscles were completely relaxed. I tried *WILD*'ing but failed because I fell asleep.

I woke up around 5AM to try the *WBTB* method. I also failed because I lost concentration and decided to just go to sleep. _(i have a big math final so I kind of need my rest)_

I woke up remembering 2 vivid dreams. Later that morning something I was thinking of reminded me of the dream I had before I woke up at 5AM. So I was very please to have 3 vivid dreams I could remember.

I am also glad that I now know that smoking pot.. *especially* before bed, doesn't hinder *MY* ability to recall the dreams*/*vivid dreams I have.

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## w4nd3r3r

I'm sceptical about that melatonin-and-marijuana effecting dreaming thing... Where was this documented? I'm not challenging it as I can vouch for both of the drugs having at least some effect on dreaming; I just always like seeing comprehensive analysis of things like that.

Your experience sounds very interesting, and of course, fun. Once when I was very high on LSA (not LSD), I for some reason decided I wanted to sleep soon, so I dropped a melatonin pill and I almost completely lost control of my body and the hallucinations pretty much doubled. It was overpowering but really interesting. Not only was it almost instant, but I also never expected melatonin to have any effect with something like LSA.

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## Kuhnada29

wow, some of these anti-weed posts and "weed is addicting" posts are rediculous. Most of the people saying this, probably don't smoke, or never have smoked lol

Anyway, I've been smoking going on 4 or 5 years. I've stopped smoking since last January, so I haven't had any weed going on 4 months or so now. 

I won't start back smoking again until after the 20th, but i definitely believe weed can give you lucid dreams, once you've "woken up" from the sleeping state everyone else is in and you start to pay attention to the world. How can you expect to be lucid in dreams if you aren't lucid in waking life.

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## tekkendreams

i smoke pretty much once everyweekend and its hard for me to get a lucid dream , but i have to admit as soon as you get hight lay down and close ur eyes , when ur heads spinning it feels very similar when ur transitioning into a dream

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## Kuhnada29

Ok now I'm DEFINITELY convinced that weed gives you lucid dreams

The key is visualization. You have to visualize yourself into a lucid dream with cannabis. This is probably the most important part because if you don't visualize anything and keep your senses aware you will just go unconscious like normally. 

Here is something i posted in another thread about cannabis. 





> I smoked yesterday. And i think I almost had a cannabis-induced lucid dream. I believe weed can "induce" hypnagogic hallucinations...I say this because this is the second time i've had HH from weed which might have something to do with the 4,000% increase in melatonin. The first time the HH was light and uncontrollable........this time it was more detailed and i could control it. 
> 
> Anything you focus on while high from weed is increased tenfold. I layed down and listened to the fan and it sounded louder more, clear and lucid. Then when I closed my eyes I visualized something, it was like it instantly appeared in the form of HH. Visualizing when high on weed isn't like sober visuzliing.....it seemed more lucid.
> 
> After that ( while eyes were still closed ), I just tried to go to sleep and there was a little box in my field-of-view with moving images....it started to get bigger ..I just observed it, but i can't remember what it was. But i DO know it was just a bunch of random and spontaneous stuff.....AND my eyes was moving around fast as I watched it....so this made me think I was in REM. 
> 
> I'm going to start taking melatonin supplements again and will probally smoke again this weekend. All this makes me realize how UNlucid I am in waking life. Walking around lost in thought



Also, if you smoke cannabis make sure you take your time. I think you have to get "really" high for HH to appear..... and once you are this high you might experience anxiety or extreme paranoia. 

The first time i got HH from weed i was extremely paranoid and scared..almost to the point where I thought i was literally going crazy/ skitzophrenic. You have to breathe and relax and let the visualization commence. The second time was MUCH better...there was still some anxiety/paranoia but nowhere near as much as the first time. 

Also my tolerance for weed is really low...i can make a $5 of mid-grade last a whole week and some change. 

If you are a heavy smoker, you may need to smoke a LOT more ( maybe even using hashish )...i don't advice smoking a lot...not like everyday all day. It's going to run up your seratonin levels...melatonin levels and everything else.

Every since I had that last experienced...i believe weed helps my ADD..which i didn't think I had until i notice i zone-out a lot while sober..with weed i can pay attention to the outside world more, because it enhances perception. 

It's funny how we're are trying to induce lucid dreams through something natural like cannabis, while the others are trying to use 9volt batteries, and wires and shit.

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## surealization

Interesting thread, interesting read. I'm a daily toker myself and i must say the times I've gone to bed monged out'a my face i get HH i think (images i cant control racing through my mind) which i love cus it's like watching t.v as you go to sleep  :tongue2:  Anyways i'm well up for helping with research so will post back shortly.

As Katt Williams says, 'It's just a plant. It just grows like that, and if you should so happen to set it on fire....there are some effects'  :tongue2: 

Peace

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## passingcloud

I've been thinking about this a lot lately but the problem is it makes me sleep in too deep which makes it difficult to remember your dreams. but I have read before that people who smoke alot for a long time and then suddenly stop, have a lot of vivid dreams. I figure if you utilize a few simple LD techniques it can be taken advantage of. but of course my problem is i like to toke anyway but at least for me it is more of a honderance than a bonus to achieving lucid dreams. I was just thinking it would be nice if i could turn it into an advantage rather than a disadvantage. But i think there is a loophole in there to make it work. But even from what i've read in this forum, it seems more like you are talking about hypnogogic images. I need to do more research and self experimentations with and I will get back to you. Becuase what I'm thinking of is more like a workable technique. Kind of like waking up early morning staying up for 90 minutes and going back to bed. what i realize is it is all anout being a light sleeper and unfortunately weed has just the opposite effect. However I think there is a way around it. So if anyone has a substantial technique plz let us know otherwise lets burry our heads in the sand and come up with something. 


You there is this technique the yogis are supposed to use where they don't fall asleep but simply close their eyes and tell themselves they are asleep and it really helps like if you haven't had much sleep and you just sit on a chair and just close your eyes and say "I am asleep" repeatedly. if anyone is interested why don't you take this meditation and just try it in different variations and see what works and plz do share

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