# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  FryingMan's DILD course workbook

## FryingMan

Hi there!  I'm FryingMan (pun on Heroes, how I like flying in dreams, and I like food/cooking too!), I think I'm older than most of the people I see posting here -- I'm a parent to teenagers.   I'm new to lucid dreaming, someone I know was doing it and I was making fun of him, but I got very interested in doing it and am now totally obsessed with it!  I've been reading LaBerge's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming and A Course in Lucid Dreaming and am following along with the exercises in ACILD.  I started a dream journal and remembered and recorded some dreams the very first night!  That was a big confidence boost.   Now setting intention to awakening multiple times during the night to record multiple dreams, and it works!   I haven't missed a single night since I started on 2013-08-22 (a few nights had much less recall though).  I switched from writing to using a voice recording app last night and last I recorded 4 awakenings with 17 dreams / scenes / fragments (mostly with at least a short paragraph of detail, only a few one-liners)!   I've played around with WILD for the "instant gratification" hope but basically just lost a lot of sleep, I kept snapping awake and alert once anything interesting happened (saw a ton (about 20) brief HH dreamlets, experienced the "full body buzz", etc.).  DILD / MILD in particular seems to be the way to go for me since I like falling asleep when I'm tired  :smiley: .     I have gained a lot of confidence in setting my intentions since I've had so much success with waking up after dreams to record them just from suggestion alone (I don't use the alarm any more, I used it once or twice but it really jarred me awake so I don't use it any more since I don't seem to need it).   My friend did WILD and got good success with them but he had a really scary experience with it and took a break form it so I decided to mostly avoid it for now.

I've been working on waking awareness, reflection/intention technique (seriously checking the state of reality, doing RCs, visualizing reality as if a dream, visualizing becoming lucid), and prospective memory exercises (my results for prospective memory exercises are so far just so-so:  either I can't get the target sign out of my head so it's always in the front of my mind which feels like I'm not quite doing the exercise correctly [or is this ok?  a highly activated goal center?], or I forget the targets sometimes.  Sometimes I do hit the target, but this is an obvious area for improvement, sometimes I realized I missed it a few minutes past when it occured) .   Also, reading about LDing on any forum / place I can find.  Dreamviews seems to be the best / most active forum with great support (I actually got downvoted on reddit for my intro post excited about dream recall, so I don't go there any more, seems to be a bunch of unpleasant poeple there moslty).

I had a huge breakthrough two nights ago, I had one of the most amazing flying dreams that I remember.    I dream only very rarely about flying but they're my favorite dreams.  I always visualize flying as the dream action I take in the reflection/intention exercise now.   I also visualize myself blasting my way through power lines without getting stuck as that was always a big block for my flying dreams as a young person: I'd try to take off but couldn't get far because the sky was filled with power lines blocking me so I couldn't continue.   Well, this time, after take-off I saw them approaching, and I *knew* I could get through them, grinned to myself with anticipation of "beating" my old nemesis, and I flew right up to them, through them, and beyond!   I was filled with elation.   Everything was very vivid, I think it was like a lucid dream could be like but just without knowing I was in a dream.   I would *love* to get that again with lucidity!   I had total confidence and was ecstatic the entire time.    

I had a realization once I started my LD training: I've been for many years just sailing through WL on auto-pilot, zombie-like, tuning out the world when I'm bored or annoyed.    So I may have a ways to go to tune things back in  to get to lucidity, but I'm psyched with my first successes of recall, so I know I'll get there!   The flying dream "felt" like lucidity should, I think, so I hope I'm close!

My long term goal is to I'd like to get to LD on demand and run LD experiments with others and help others learn this amazing skill.    Medium-term goal is to get to a few LDs per week (by the end of 2013), short term goal is to get my first lucid by the end of September.    Other short term goals is to recording at least 2-3 dreams per night, but I seem to be blowing by that one so I should probably up the number now.

LD goal activities: fly and perfect flying and gliding at will, both maneuverability and speed; play with a lightsaber!; be a Son of Amber/Chaos and travel to Amber and walk the Pattern, be a buddy of Merlin of Chaos (equally powerful) and go on adventures with other Amber/Chaos buddies.   Be a mage on a quest!

I would love any advice / guidance you can give me in this course.

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## FryingMan

My RCs:
+ Pinched nose breathing
+ Count fingers and see expected rings in the right places
+ Push finger through palm
+ Close each eye and see if I can see my nose
+ Memory (how'd I get here?  What did I do before?  Remembering back to waking up from bed if I can)
+ Read text, look away, check again, twice.

I generally do all of these during my state test, trying to remain serious and focused and not just falling into "of course I'm not dreaming".

My bed time ritual:
Clear thoughts (not too much in there these days but Lucid dreaming anticipation anyway!)
Write in journal:

I will remember my dreams
I will awake after dreams to record them
I will have interesting and meaningful dreams
In my dreams I will remember to recognize that I'm dreaming

I do a state check every time anything surprising or unexpected or weird happens.  

I still need to establish 8-10 events that happen during the day which are reasonably spaced apart so I don't get bored or lazy doing the state checks, and switch them around every day.

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## FryingMan

One thing I'm not sure of is how long to stay up in WBTB.  In the first week of LD training I had a lot of trouble sleeping if I woke up and got too alert, maybe from excitement?   Last night I did WBTB about 5 hours after bed time for about 30 minutes reading LD web sites and about 30 minutes of MILD mantra/visualization and decided I would just go to sleep since I was pretty tired and my MILD was getting sloppy/unclear, I was following the visions that popped up instead of staying on the MILD.   I'm not sure yet if I can do WBTB without staying up for hours.   I'm wondering how important it is to be up for a while in WBTB, if I *feel* alert and awake, is that good enough?   I generally wake up pretty fast.   This is something to experiment further with I think once I start getting LD to see what works the best.   Frankly I'd rather just stay asleep and get LDs  :smiley: .

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## FryingMan

Was very tired last night.   I had what is shaping up to be my typical 4 wakings (counting the last one when I got up for the day), but I was so tired last night that I didn't even try to recall the first waking when I didn't have dreams immediately in mind, I just went back to sleep.   Detail last night was definitely down from the night before.  I drank 3 glasses of apple juice before bed last night but it didn't seem to do anything, maybe my sleepiness was too overwhelming (or maybe AJ doesn't help vividness at all).  I tried to do MILD in between the 2nd and 3rd and 3rd and 4th awakenings but could barely get through a single coherent iteration of 1. recall 2. focus intent 3. visualize becoming lucid. I'd either forget that I was doing it and start over, or follow some other scene that popped up.   Figuring out to get enough rest with WBTB is going to be a top priority.    I see the value though of WBTB since I was so tired I couldn't MILD properly at all without getting out of bed.   (With prior WBTB attempts I couldn't get back to sleep for along time, thus losing sleep.  Maybe now that some of the initial excitement is abating a bit I will be able to get back to sleep faster).

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## FryingMan

Only 4 dreams recalled from 1 waking last night.  Nothing lucid.   One nightmare, close to one I'd had before.   A saw/sensed a formless darkness outside a glass door on a deck.   Normally I shrink from this formless darkness being in terror and am generally helpless.   But this time I felt resolve and determination to defeat it, I opened the door and lunged at the darkness with a fist punch.  Unfortunately, formless darknesses don't have bodies so my arm went right through it and it entered inside me and caused pain  :Sad: .   But I hope that's a sign that I'm starting to take some more control of my destiny in dreams with the LD training.

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## gab

Welcome to Dreamviews and to DILD class!

My apologies for such a delayed reply.

Well, I may be closer to your age than to the age of your teenagers, lol. We do have older members, but you are right, most of them are in their 20 and younger.

Good thing you are dream journaling. It is possibly the most important tool lucid dreamers have at their disposal. It helps in getting better dream recall, being more aware of our dreams, and it also tell our mind, that we like dreaming and remembering them.

As you found out, intent plays a huge role. It can help you wake up at certain time, remember your dream, even recognize you are dreaming. We set our intent with help of mantras.

WILD - it's ok to experiment with it. But there is lot more to it, than just laying down and waiting for a lucid. But I agree, the HH are awesome and I enjoy and value every attempt for that reason. DILD is recommended to start with, because it will teach you all the mental prep you will need for WILD and any other technique. Again, it's ok to read up on other techniques, in case, situation presents itself, so you will know what to do.





> I've been working on waking awareness, reflection/intention technique (seriously checking the state of reality, doing RCs, visualizing reality as if a dream, visualizing becoming lucid), and prospective memory exercises (my results for prospective memory exercises are so far just so-so: either I can't get the target sign out of my head so it's always in the front of my mind which feels like I'm not quite doing the exercise correctly [or is this ok? a highly activated goal center?], or I forget the targets sometimes. Sometimes I do hit the target, but this is an obvious area for improvement, sometimes I realized I missed it a few minutes past when it occured) .



All this^^ practice sounds good, but don't try to do too much. Brief awareness question with examining your surroundings, RCs and mantras are great to start with and they are plenty to get you LD. The prospective memory training is optional advanced practice, that I myself don't do. Maybe you can save it for later and kinda add to your practice little by little.





> Well, this time, after take-off I saw them approaching, and I *knew* I could get through them...



This is a perfect example of intent. ^^ When we KNOW, something will happen, instead of a wish, that something would happen. That's great that you are using it and it's working for you. 





> I had a realization once I started my LD training: I've been for many years just sailing through WL on auto-pilot, zombie-like, tuning out the world when I'm bored or annoyed. So I may have a ways to go to tune things back in to get to lucidity, but I'm psyched with my first successes of recall, so I know I'll get there! The flying dream "felt" like lucidity should, I think, so I hope I'm close!



^^ This is what self-awareness and daytime awareness should take care of. Once you start paying more attention to your waking life, and actually "noticing" where you are and what you doing, it will reflect in your non-lucids by making them more realistic and vivid. And, most important part, it will get you lucid, because suddenly in your non-lucid, you will go "wow, where am I?"

Your goals are most certainly obtainable. Keep excited and keep your intent set. Happy dreams ::alien::

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## gab

> My RCs:
> + Pinched nose breathing
> + Count fingers and see expected rings in the right places
> + Push finger through palm
> + Close each eye and see if I can see my nose
> + Memory (how'd I get here?  What did I do before?  Remembering back to waking up from bed if I can)
> + Read text, look away, check again, twice.
> 
> I generally do all of these during my state test, trying to remain serious and focused and not just falling into "of course I'm not dreaming".
> ...



All those RCs are great! One thing I would recommend, is use only 2-3 at the time. Save the rest of them, when your mind gets bored with your current ones and you will need to find some new ones to get your mind interested in RCs again. You know, in case they become a routine.

Also, your mantras are great. One thing - it's better to use mantra in present tense. Our mind knows only "now" and "not now". And you want your mantra to work NOW. meaning, very next opportunity, like tonight.

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## gab

> Was very tired last night.   I had what is shaping up to be my typical 4 wakings (counting the last one when I got up for the day), but I was so tired last night that I didn't even try to recall the first waking when I didn't have dreams immediately in mind, I just went back to sleep.   Detail last night was definitely down from the night before.  I drank 3 glasses of apple juice before bed last night but it didn't seem to do anything, maybe my sleepiness was too overwhelming (or maybe AJ doesn't help vividness at all).  I tried to do MILD in between the 2nd and 3rd and 3rd and 4th awakenings but could barely get through a single coherent iteration of 1. recall 2. focus intent 3. visualize becoming lucid. I'd either forget that I was doing it and start over, or follow some other scene that popped up.   Figuring out to get enough rest with WBTB is going to be a top priority.    I see the value though of WBTB since I was so tired I couldn't MILD properly at all without getting out of bed.   (With prior WBTB attempts I couldn't get back to sleep for along time, thus losing sleep.  Maybe now that some of the initial excitement is abating a bit I will be able to get back to sleep faster).



WBTB should be just long enough, until you can thing straight, but still sleepy enough to fall asleep fast. WBTB is critical for a WILD. But for a DILD, it's not necessary (it may help though). A very short WBTB, just long enough to use the restroom or get a dring of water will do the trick. And then just very quick RC, then repeating mantra untill falling asleep. My favorite mantra is "next time I'm dreaming, I look at my hands and realize I'm dreaming". I use it after my looking at hands and counting fingers RC. It's a tad long, but I make it rhyme and I feel like it fits me. Everybody should use mantra, that sounds and feels just right for that person.





> Only 4 dreams recalled from 1 waking last night.  Nothing lucid.   One nightmare, close to one I'd had before.   A saw/sensed a formless darkness outside a glass door on a deck.   Normally I shrink from this formless darkness being in terror and am generally helpless.   But this time I felt resolve and determination to defeat it, I opened the door and lunged at the darkness with a fist punch.  Unfortunately, formless darknesses don't have bodies so my arm went right through it and it entered inside me and caused pain .   But I hope that's a sign that I'm starting to take some more control of my destiny in dreams with the LD training.



You are in control. Waggoner in his book "Gateway to inner self" suggest that these dark and scary entities in our dreams are part of ourselves. Those part, that we don't like about us and thus we deny their existence and reject them, maybe even hate them. WE make enemies out of them. 

So he suggests to extend thought of love and understnding and watch then change into something non-threatening, that even may merge back into the dreamer. So we once again are whole, together with our bad traits, only this time we accept them as part of us.


With all this practice you have been doing, I belive you are overdue for a LD. I think all you need is a tiny push. If you wish, you can check out this thread. http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...other-dcs.html
It's long. I have read it in one afternoon, on the same day I have learned about lucid dreaming and it got me so excited, that I had my first LD that night. The whole time I was reading it, my body was filled with extreme excitement and my mind kept repeating - "wow, this is incredible, I can't believe that this unbelievable secret is withing my grasp and I may just do it tonight." I did a few looking at hands RC and mantra "next time I'm dreaming, I look at my hands and realize I'm dreaming". That's exactly how it was. I was flying over a lake superman style (first time ever, untill now, I was only able to fly after jumping up in the air while flapping my arms wildly), when I stopped, my hands flew up into my vision and I got lucid.

Good luck and Happy dreams ::alien::

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## gab

One more thing - it's critical, that when RCing and asking yourself "is this a dream"?, you absolutely believe, that yes, it is. You fully expect to be able to breathe, your thumb to go through your palm, and so on...

And even if you establish that you are not dreaming, don't acknowledge it. Don't "finish the thought", that you are not dreaming. Right after you finish your RC, say your mantra. Don't even for one second entertain the thought, that you are awake.

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## FryingMan

Thanks so much for your feedback! 




> WBTB should be just long enough, until you can thing straight, but still sleepy enough to fall asleep fast.



That's good to know, thanks!  I'm finding that if I stand up out of bed after waking for more than a couple of minutes I'm going to spend the next hour(s) staring at my eyelids, awake.   I apparently become alert very quickly in the middle of the night.   Which is good I suppose, getting BTB quickly maximizes time for dreaming  :smiley: .
I also have noted that I fall asleep quickly when going to bed, but it takes me a lot longer in the middle of the night, so I try just to journal about the dreams and get right back to bed with some MILD repetitions.





> So he suggests to extend thought of love and understnding and watch then change into something non-threatening, that even may merge back into the dreamer. So we once again are whole, together with our bad traits, only this time we accept them as part of us.



Very interesting!  I'll try this if the darkness shows up when lucid.





> With all this practice you have been doing, I belive you are overdue for a LD. I think all you need is a tiny push. If you wish, you can check out this thread. http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...other-dcs.html



I certainly hope so!    I think my dreams are becoming more aware of dreaming, catching up to my WL.  Two nights ago, with about 20% confidence (meaning I'm not sure it really happened in the dream or it was a WL embellishment that occurred to me when recording), I justified being in a hurry and not meeting with someone because "I was in a dream and had a lot of things I wanted to get done" (not lucid though).
And last night, in one dream I saw a scene of a woman creating her own images of a fantasy garden, I could see the images like a sheet of paper before me as she was creating them from her imagination, with about 70% confidence I believe in the dream I knew that she was lucid dreaming to create these images.

I had my longest recalled dream yet two nights ago, it felt like about 15 minutes of continuity (although it's hard to judge) it was a very good recall night, it took me several hours to transcribe all the voice recording I made from all the awakenings into my journal.   Details quite vivid at times.   I think my general vividness level is slowly increasing.

Weekend dreaming is awesome, I go to a quiet cabin outside of the city and I dream like crazy there, with great recall.   Now I have to get my success in the city up to the same level with all the noise and distractions because that's where I spend the majority of my time.

I've switched all my mantras/intentions to present tense, thanks!

I tried a spontaneous WILD again last night, I guess I'm too impatient  :smiley: .  I felt myself really falling asleep at one point, so I started up a mantra, and .... just ended up staying awake for a while and going to sleep regularly after a while  :Sad: .

I need to focus on techniques to get to sleep in the middle of the night quickly after setting my intention with MILD.   Sometimes the 61-point relaxation exercise does it for me, other times it does not.   I don't like the tense/release relaxation technique, it just seems to wake me up more.    I guess I'll add "I fall asleep quickly when I want to" to my daytime intention setting  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

I've added  a new mantra to my WL intention setting practice, one that I really like, it makes me excited and motivates me:

"I am a lucid dreamer."

I hope it's not too vague for the subconscious to get the point that I want to LD *now*: 

It fills me with a sense of wonder and anticipation.

Frankly, "The next time I'm dreaming, I remember to recognize that I"m dreaming" is a bit dry to me, maybe because I've been using it exclusively from the start.    Technically, though, is this second one (the LaBerge MILD mantra) objectively better?  

Is it more important that the mantra have a deep personal meaning, as opposed to being a "correct" programming of the subconscious, given the goal of getting a lucid dream *now*?

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## FryingMan

> I've added  a new mantra to my WL intention setting practice, one that I really like, it makes me excited and motivates me:
> 
> "I am a lucid dreamer."
> 
> I hope it's not too vague for the subconscious to get the point that I want to LD *now*: 
> 
> It fills me with a sense of wonder and anticipation.
> 
> Frankly, "The next time I'm dreaming, I remember to recognize that I"m dreaming" is a bit dry to me, maybe because I've been using it exclusively from the start.    Technically, though, is this second one (the LaBerge MILD mantra) objectively better?  
> ...



Actually the more I think about it I think "I am a lucid dreamer" is probably too vague for a MILD mantra (?)   I'll keep the LaBerge one for now (switching it to present tense instead of future).   I'll keep this one for WL intention setting sessions.

A bit of a frustrating night last night.  Wife was awake when I woke up every time so I didn't want to voice journal much to avoid bothering her.  I did a pretty good job of remembering what I did recall though in my waking memory when I compared it against what I did manage to voice journal when transcribing to the written journal in the morning.   I'm finding my ability to recall sequences of events both in dreams and in WL is improving after ~3 weeks of consistent DJ-ing.

I was VERY awake after my 05:30 wakening, I did MILD on the dream I just woke up from, but just could not fall back asleep.  I tried from 05:30 - 07:30, I was surprised that it was that long, I felt awake the entire time so I'm pretty sure I didn't nod off unawares.    I got close several times but I was too aware of the process of falling asleep.   I even tried once or twice to "enter" the visions I had that became pretty convincing 3d visualizations that I could "walk around in", but I'm pretty sure I wasn't asleep so no pseudo-WILD happened.  I just wanted to go to sleep to let MILD do its thing!   But I just couldn't.    I have to be very careful not to stay awake too long journaling during waking periods as especially in the city I find it very hard to get back to sleep quickly, darn!    On the one hand, my WBTB is quick, so I don't have to sit up for 30 minutes, just waking  up and journaling gets me basically fully awake.  On the other  hand, it sucks to lose 2 hours of sleep and take a hit in recall that occurs when underslept.  

I haven't been getting any physical exercise recently so that may be an issue of my tendency to have trouble falling asleep quickly.   I've add "I fall asleep right when I want to" to my WL intention setting mantras  :smiley: .

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## FryingMan

This is now three nights in a row where the concept of dreaming has come up in my dreams:

N-3: I was in a hurry and didn't have time to meet with someone "because I'm dreaming and I have too much to do" (about 20% confidence that I actually thought that in the dream)

N-2: A neighbor woman was lucid dreaming (!!!) and I could see the visions she was creating in her imagination as if they were appearing on a screen in front of me (and I thought this to myself: "she's creating her dream world using her imagination").   *I mean, how thick do you have to be to miss that dreamsign*?   :smiley:     AUUGH!  100% confidence that's what happened.

Last night: I was in a club (activity club, not night club), the shared activity I think (40% confidence) was dreaming.

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## LukeSid

> Only 4 dreams recalled from 1 waking last night.  Nothing lucid.



 Awesome Fryingman I can often remember three dreams but that's from multiple awakenings during the night (I'm 69 YO) I've been trying for just over three months and I had my first (very small) lucid dream last Saturday. I'm old and I did it and I think you'll be lucid very very soon. I'm now working at getting dream #2 but I suspect that you may take off like a rocket. 

If you work as well as try for LD I think it's no wonder you are tired sometimes. I'm retired and I sometimes find it difficult to stay the course at night..so work at it but don't let it affect your health or any relationships. You've got the rest of your life to enjoy it + what you're learning about yourself, the brain and dreams generally can be enough to "entertain"  you while you move steadily towards being lucid. It's great isn't it?

Re the "formless darkness...my son's wife had a major op recently and just before she went in hospital he dreamt that a monster was climbing across his wife and he somehow seems to have overcome SP as he tried to tackle it. I'm sure you'd know if there was something really worrying you and that's another amazing side to LD...it helps you face problems head-on I'm told

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## FryingMan

> Awesome Fryingman I can often remember three dreams but that's from multiple awakenings during the night (I'm 69 YO) I've been trying for just over three months and I had my first (very small) lucid dream last Saturday. I'm old and I did it and I think you'll be lucid very very soon. I'm now working at getting dream #2 but I suspect that you may take off like a rocket.



Thank you LukeSid for the encouragement!   And congrats on your first LD!   Yeah all these young little "whippersnappers" writing "I tried to LD and it got it the first time!" can be depressing for us geezers (uh, I mean, "mature folk").  My personal nonscientific theory is that after decades of walking through life zombie-like on autopilot, it can take us a little longer to instill the waking awareness necessary to reliably LD.   I am very encouraged with my recall results so far and my response to setting intent (no need to set alarm clocks).   Yes balancing the desire to sleep more "just one more dream period! Just one more!" with family & work life can be challenging!

I'm sure if you keep working on it the recall will improve.   Some advice I recall is that physical activity during the day is very helpful for LD and recall (just not within about 3 hours of bed time or you may be too alert).    I need to follow this advice also.    Also, really try to recall those dreams that slip away.   (It's amazing to me how fast can happen, two nights ago I had a fairly clear mental sequence of a dream I just had and was going to journal.  I opened my eyes and partially sat up in bed and POOF I felt it ALL VANISH in an instant.   Argh!).   Staying still after waking is really important.   I've noted that I have a habit of rolling over as soon as I wake up.   I've started setting the intent to remain still when I wake up, and it's starting to work, just last night I started to move upon waking without thinking and I just stopped myself suddenly and realized "aha, have to recall before moving!"

I've been doing the LaBerge prospective memory exercise about 1.5 weeks and I'm just now starting to see small improvements, it takes a while.   Once that gets reasonably developed I think it helps with intention setting and MILDing, I encourage you to try that if you're not already.

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## LukeSid

> Yes balancing the desire to sleep more "just one more dream period! Just one more!" with family & work life can be challenging!



How's the wife re this? If she's going along fairly well you're lucky. Mine just doesn't understand but, as long as I don't start waffling on about, it she's fine.





> I opened my eyes and partially sat up in bed and POOF I felt it ALL VANISH in an instant.   Argh!



I've had that...it felt really weird...as if a very thin rubber band just snapped. I suppose we're part of the lucky few who have actually experienced how the movement of a memory feels...like a thin rubber band snapping...I've also made the mistake of laying there too long, to get the smallest detail...and drifting off back to sleep. I've tried TAGs...giving a dream a few tags to make it more memorable without having to get up but I can't guarantee to remember it





> I'm sure if you keep working on it the recall will improve.



It has improved really. I've got blood pressure and that has affected my memory (a former dj who knows all the major songs up to the mid 90's but can't remember the name of most of them) I read a reassuring article that said this type of loss is not related to Alzheimers. I eat blueberries, broccoli and I take beetroot extract (all memory improvement items) But, of course, there's no absolute proof that they help. It's a bugger but I sense that it's only a drawback and not fatal. I'm an "all over the place" type of learner but my LD seems to show that incomplete mastery of one technique (while recommended long term) doesn't necessarily prevent LD happening...probably the _sum total_ of all the things we're learning adds up...but, of course, I will be seeking to improve on them all

I'm pretty conditioned now on laying still with eyes shut and my next move is to look at DEILD Then I can either get up and record a dream or if I can try to get back into it (particularly if it was lucid!) Best of both Worlds then. I've made up a list of things to notice throughout the day and I'll pick three at random. As Tesco say "Every little bit helps"

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## FryingMan

> I've had that...it felt really weird...as if a very thin rubber band just snapped.



Yes that's a very good description.   It was odd, normally they slowly fade and I start struggling to remember what is left but this was all at once in an instant, very strange!




> I suppose we're part of the lucky few who have actually experienced how the movement of a memory feels...like a thin rubber band snapping...I've also made the mistake of laying there too long, to get the smallest detail...and drifting off back to sleep. I've tried TAGs...giving a dream a few tags to make it more memorable without having to get up but I can't guarantee to remember it



Yes I do quick mental keyword summaries to start with to make sure I remember each "starting scene", then do mental replays with more detail, then voice record the keywords, then voice record the details.





> I'm pretty conditioned now on laying still with eyes shut and my next move is to look at DEILD Then I can either get up and record a dream or if I can try to get back into it (particularly if it was lucid!) Best of both Worlds then. I've made up a list of things to notice throughout the day and I'll pick three at random. As Tesco say "Every little bit helps"



That's good about being still.  I think the best approach is a flexible one -- know all the techniques and be familiar with them, and use them when they're appropriate.   Keep careful records of your efforts and keep looking back and finding what works and what doesn't (this approach I attribute to BrandonBoss, thanks man!)

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## FryingMan

Last night was another trouble-getting-back-to-sleep night after some MILD repetitions after awaking about 5-6 hours after bedtime.   Forgot lots of detail, waited until morning to journal middle-of-the-night awakenings.   Ate too much too close to bedtime and had dreams of thinking about throwing up  :tongue2: .    I journaled a few sentences from different awakenings so I did have a bit of recall.  I know there's a lot I forgot, though.

Again as I was trying to fall asleep after the MILD repetitions I observed myself beginning slowly to fall asleep, so just stayed aware with it and hoped I'd get a spontaneous WILD.   As has happened before, I notice bright lights, I see images and short scenes which disappear quickly.   I try not to focus on them but they just disappear, and afterwards my wakefulness increases and I'm just lying there awake again.   Then I try just to ignore everything and fall asleep but the signs of approaching sleep seem to stimulate me.   A few times I tried imagining "diving down through my bed" as if diving down under water, and the first time it helped get "deeper" and closer to sleep but after that didn't seem to help.

I guess I should try the 61-point relaxation with more attention.   Having something else to pay attention to other than the HI helps sometimes.

Any suggestions about "getting to sleep when you want to" welcome.

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## FryingMan

Yet AGAIN another 2-3 hour insomnia spell last night after waking up and voice journaling for about 5 minutes from a fairly well recalled dream, then doing MILD on scenes from that dream.   If any other non-MILD thoughts entered my head, I'd do a quick mental statement of "The next time I'm dreaming, I remember to recognize that I'm dreaming."   I'm starting to think this is keeping me up?    The MILD instructions from LaBerge say to do another cycle any time any other thoughts enter in, to make sure the MILD thought is the last one you have before falling asleep.    I'm not doing all that many MILD repetitions at first, maybe 5 or 6 at most, I'm really trying to let everything go and just get right back to sleep.    Same pattern as before: I slowly relax and feel myself getting close to sleep, I see suddenly a scene (HI?), then I snap back to alertness, and this repeats for a while.   Then I just start "daydreaming" -- I daydreamed of flying around bridges and the ocean.  After a while ended up turning on the light and reading for an hour, that helped me get tired enough to fall asleep again.   After falling asleep eventually and waking after a dream I was so tired at that point that I didn't journal I just wanted to get back to sleep (and maybe back to the dream I'd just wakened from, but that didn't happen).   Awoke again later and journaled dreams from both wakings, detail not that great (probably because I'm tired).   Last night as opposed to the prior two nights I was sleeping in a totally quiet and dark place with no distractions at all, but still no luck getting quickly back to sleep after MILD.   Argh!

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## FryingMan

Yesterday I completed the LaBerge seven day Will Development exercise from "A Course In Lucid Dreaming."   Saying hello to 5 random new people a day for 3 days was challenging for me but I did it  :smiley: .

I'm now generally hitting 2-3 out of the 4 prospective memory targets for the day.    Visualizing each of the the target events happening rather than just memorizing the list of targets for the day has proven very effective and essential in getting the instant "ping! I remember to do a state check" when the target event happens.     I've found that being too specific about the visualizations can cause a miss; one of the events is "when you hear your name spoken," and I almost never hear my name at home, only at work, so I just visualized hearing it at work.   But that day my wife was talking about me to a friend on the phone and said my name but I only a bit later realized I had missed it!

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## gab

Talking about dreaming, lucid dreaming, teaching others how to,... in a regular dream is a great sign indeed. Your waking life practice is getting noticed by your mind big time.

Yes, the city life distractions can be a real nuisance. But that recall of yours is awesome. Sometimes I just show my appreciation to my mind by saying "Thank you for my dreams and all dreaming experiences. I love those about [insert anything here]. Can I please have more of them?" Our mind listens, only we don't really tell it what we want, because we don't think of our mind as our ally, a partner, that can help and guide us.

WILD is a very delicate ballancing game. To fall asleep at the very moment, when a dream is ready for us. So until then, you have to either get yourself fall asleep faster, if you feel dream is near. Or slow down the falling asleep, if you feel that dream is still far away. That's not easy to do. You may know all the theory, but only practice, with all the success stories and even fails, will make you better at it. And btw, every fail is a success too, in my book. WILD really is a learning process and only way to learn it is through practice. Every failed attempt gets us one step closer, and it equals to succesful attempt, because it gives us same valuable info, about what to do and what not to do.

I have never tried the 61 point technique. Well, maybe once or twice. I just found it too long and boring. Until I found this guided yoga nidra track. That puts me to sleep in minutes, and it doesn't involve muscle flexing, just thinking about all those parts of your body. It's great for relaxation and to help you fall asleep, but not for WILDing, since it puts me to sleep very fast. I can PM you info about it, if interested.





> I've added a new mantra to my WL intention setting practice, one that I really like, it makes me excited and motivates me:
> 
> "I am a lucid dreamer."
> 
> I hope it's not too vague for the subconscious to get the point that I want to LD *now*:
> 
> It fills me with a sense of wonder and anticipation.
> 
> Frankly, "The next time I'm dreaming, I remember to recognize that I"m dreaming" is a bit dry to me, maybe because I've been using it exclusively from the start. Technically, though, is this second one (the LaBerge MILD mantra) objectively better?
> ...



"I'm a lucid dreamer" should be ok. When you say it, imagine yourself just getting lucid and doing an RC. So your mind has better idea what you talking about. Also, "I lucid dream", "I'm aware in my dreams" could work.

My favorite one is "Next time I'm dreaming, I realize I'm dreaming" and "Next time I'm dreaming, I look at my hands and realize I'm dreaming".  This is a classic mantra from Castanedas book. I didn't read the book, just someone mentioned it. The author was talking to an old indian. He told him that he can get lucid in his dreams. All he nedds to do is to wish to look at his hands in his non-lucid dream. Castaneda was skeptical, but he did the looking at hands RC with mantra. And he got lucid.

In theory, you should be able to say anything, as long as you tell your brain what you mean by that. Then it will assocciate those words with the meaning. But if you can think of a mantra, that has a personal meaning, talks about LDing, maybe even rhymes, and it gets you this special feeling, like "this is the one". I think that is the way to go.

Often I change my mantra, if I start reciting it and it doesn't sound right, or "I'm not feeling it". I keep changing it, until I have a good feeling about it and it gets me excited.

One night, as I went to bed, I had this ache. So I figured I try a mantra I have seen in Waggoners book "Gateway to the inner self". It goes "From my hands shoots an energy beam, to heal my [insert what] with power supreme. It rhymes, and I made it sync with my breating. I didn't intent to do anything, I was just saying it. Next thing I know, my body (dream body) started to rotate clock wise, little bit more with every breath, until my feet were in the wall, and my head over the carpet. Then I felt like I'm on ball bearings, moving back and forth with every inhale-exhale. It was incredible. I thing rhytmic breathing did that, coupled with mantra. Some kind of a trance. So yes, I do believe in power of mantras, rhyming, and breathing.

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## gab

About dream journaling-
I keep my DJ in the bathroom, and I write some keywords down on my trips there. They help me recall the whole dream in the morning.

When you find yourself in a dream/dreamlet/HH and you are deep enough to see yourself walking around in it, thry to stand up. You may be already dreaming. Or make some kind of a "formal" attempt to transfer yourself there. You are already there, but this "transfer" will help you realize it. You will most likely find your own way, but this is how I do it. I find a spot inside a dreamscene and I think slowly, and deliberately "I... am... there". At that moment I feel physical movement of my consciousness/dream body to the spot I picked inside the dream. The whole feel changes from and outside observer to me being inside of a 3D environment. And at that point I realize, I'm in a LD.

Check link in my sig for different ways of entering a WILD depending of what you see or feel. 

To help you catch a dream sign in a dream, try and draw your own dreamscape, like the woman in your dream did. When you drawing it during day, think of the mantra to notice it in your dream.

It's normal to become more aware and to "snap out of it", when you see some cool HH. That's just excitement from you knowing what's coming. The more you do it, more you will learn not to get excited about it. It will wear off a bit (never fully though, which is a great thing, in my eyes).

Looks like you are doing great progress. Good luck and happy dreams ::alien::

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## FryingMan

> Talking about dreaming, lucid dreaming, teaching others how to,... in a regular dream is a great sign indeed. Your waking life practice is getting noticed by your mind big time.



Yay, I'm glad that's a good sign.  I had lucid dreaming reference #4 two nights ago, this one 100% confidence as well: my mother said of some guy in my dream, "he's a lucid dreamer."




> Yes, the city life distractions can be a real nuisance. But that recall of yours is awesome.



Thanks for the kind words, "awesome" may be an overstatement  :smiley: .  I've had ups and downs but I've always recalled something since I started "LD training"  .   

Last night I had another marathon, with more wakings I believe than any other night, including one just 30 minutes following the previous.   I guess my subconscious is starting to take seriously my "I wake after each dream and recall my dream in detail" intent!    Many dreams were quite bizarre, more than usual.  Or I'm just remembering more than usual and they're always bizarre  :smiley: .   I've titled two dreams: "Cross-country laundry service" [I'm travelling on a bus across the country to find the laundromat that will accept my 8 boxes of laundry that must be finished in a week, looking at map and note the name of one city is "Fart."), and "Living room floor surgery" [featuring a male patient with a deflated/pancake-shaped head]  ::shock:: .  Yeah, I know.  

Last night started out rocky: zero recall at the first waking 3.5 hours after going to bed.   I waited too long to start recording and it all just vanished -- I was very tired.  But then I had 4 more wakings (including the final one where I got up) where I recalled something, some a lot, some less.   The good news is that I had no trouble falling back asleep when I wanted to, doing a half-decent job of MILDing each time.   The "turn off all thoughts" idea helped.  Yes, I am interested in your relaxation approach, please do PM me about it.

It's now sometimes taking me up to an hour or more to transcribe my voice recordings into my journal.   I may have to cut back on the detail since that's a pretty big time expenditure but I'm hoping that working through the memories and details will be a boost to getting to LDs.

I have also been eating bananas, cheese, milk, and mussels like crazy this weekend, maybe the B6/B12 boost is kicking in  :smiley: .





> WILD is a very delicate ballancing game.



I'm really starting  to appreciate this.  The falling asleep experience up to HI seems more or less straightforward to me, but arriving there "too alert" seems to be the problem, or paying too much attention to HI/HH.    Sometimes the HI are very bright images that arrive suddenly, and that's rather startling.  I definitely see that WILDing is a practice, practice, practice technique.   I do feel that I'm becoming more familiar with the experience and do expect that some day, hopefully soon, I will start succeeding at the transition and then will make WILD a regular tech in my LD bag-o-tricks.   I'd like to try to get a MILD LD or two before joining Sageous's WILD class though.

I may also experiment with DEILD, forgoing journaling on one waking to try it out from time to time.

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## FryingMan

> About dream journaling-
> I keep my DJ in the bathroom, and I write some keywords down on my trips there. They help me recall the whole dream in the morning.
> 
> When you find yourself in a dream/dreamlet/HH and you are deep enough to see yourself walking around in it, thry to stand up. You may be already dreaming. Or make some kind of a "formal" attempt to transfer yourself there. You are already there, but this "transfer" will help you realize it. You will most likely find your own way, but this is how I do it. I find a spot inside a dreamscene and I think slowly, and deliberately "I... am... there". At that moment I feel physical movement of my consciousness/dream body to the spot I picked inside the dream. The whole feel changes from and outside observer to me being inside of a 3D environment. And at that point I realize, I'm in a LD.
> 
> Check link in my sig for different ways of entering a WILD depending of what you see or feel. 
> 
> To help you catch a dream sign in a dream, try and draw your own dreamscape, like the woman in your dream did. When you drawing it during day, think of the mantra to notice it in your dream.
> 
> ...



I'm never in the HH/HI long enough to think about doing an "I...am...there", never more than a second or two.  That's the delicate balance -- staying detached and calm enough not to jerk back awake, yet not letting go of consciousness and falling into a ND.

I've been a bit lazy about WL RCs over the last few days -- I need to keep this up and keep waking awareness up.   Less than 10 state checks per day, more like 5.

Thanks for the encouragement!   I do hope I'm getting closer to the first LD, and that it's a nice long one!

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## FryingMan

Low recall night, only one waking with recall (7 scenes with few sentences of detail each, one [the emotional one] with more detail, the strong emotion carrying through to wakening).   First waking: pretty tired, just forgot before I could get to the recorder.   Second waking: dream recall, strong emotion.  Third waking: had to get up and get going instantly, no time to lie and remember, no recall.

Tried MILD after first waking with dream from previous night.  I was too agitated after second waking to MILD or fall asleep.  

Eventually (ah the temptation!) decided to try WILD.   Got to my usual place: HI/HH, lights, brief scenes, "I....am...there" did not work, dream was not established enough.   Too aware of body?   Trying too hard?   Not close enough to sleep?   Very little body sensations.  Sometimes I get the "full body buzz", but I haven't recently.  Tried not to be overly interested in the HH/HI.   I'm wondering if I'm keeping hold of too much consciousness and need to dance closer to the edge of losing it, just holding to a tiny thread?

I have noticed a reoccurring event: when falling closer to sleep, I will involuntarily take a longer, stuttering breath (like three little breaths back-to-back without exhaling between them).

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## FryingMan

Verrrrry interesting night last night  ::banana:: !    On another thread fogelbise recommended I tried DEILD since I have a number of wakings during  the night.   I read a little bit about DEILD before going to bed.    On my first waking as I became aware that I was waking up, I remained still, eyes closed.    So I decided to try a DEILD.    I did not have a dream immediately in my mind, so I asked "What was I dreaming about?" and the dream scenes right away came flooding in.  I chose a few to visualize and tried just to fall back asleep.   Alas,  I did not make it in to the dream and ended up fairly alert after 10-15 minutes when I decided to MILD and go back to sleep, but I think I had a successful "try" -- I remained still despite my body "screaming" to move, my hands were very uncomfortably painfully numb from my position, and I had to badly go to the bathroom.   Maybe if I had not had these very strong body feelings I may have made it!   I stopped because I felt like I was tending towards wakefulness rather than sleep (although I did "dip" towards sleep a few times) and I didn't want to miss more dream time.   (I also got a bit tired of hearing the "Love Boat" theme song playing in my head over and over  :smiley:  The Love Boat - YouTube, starting about at 0:50 ).

So I went to the bathroom, quickly voice journaled just keywords from the scenes I recalled, immediately went back to bed and did MILD (back to the DILD topic at last  :smiley:  ).    It took a while to fall asleep, but I used the trick of visualizing turning a "distractions" knob to "zero," where it clicks and a little green light goes on (had to do this a few times), and trying to detach myself from the process of falling asleep (so I'm not paying it much attention, like I just don't care), trying not to think about my body, and I did get back to sleep in not too long a time (maybe 10-20 more minutes, it's interesting that time seems to move faster in the "real world" than in the "trying to go to sleep world".  In any case 10-20 minutes is way better than 2-3 hours).

No lucids (you can bet I'll announce the first LD with trumpets blaring here!), but I did end up having a unique, first-ever-for-me very vivid dream!   It was not vivid visually, it was mildly hazy on visual details in fact and took place in a slightly dark room (in fact I thought in the dream about turning up the lights), but my "awareness" was vivid, if you know what I mean.  My consciousness was totally involved, I did not get close to thinking about whether it was a dream or not, but I was fully "there."    I recalled a continuous scene of awareness and interaction that lasted maybe 5-10 minutes before the "wacky random" dream stuff started happening again.

It was one of those mornings where you wake up and go "YES!" pumping a fist in the air  ::banana:: .   I've had one other like that in the last 3 weeks (a flying one, which was more visually vivid but still had that heightened sense of awareness, presence and confidence that was so awesome).   In fact in this dream I also was very very confident, no hesitation at all about what I was doing.

Can't wait for the LDs, but having vastly improved NDs along the way is really really cool.

Question: I've started to add the "In my dreams I see my hands and realize I'm dreaming" to my daily mantras.   I did see my hands in my dream last night but nothing triggered.    I just started it, though.    Is it counter-productive while working towards the first LD to switch mantras around, perhaps I should stick with "The next time I'm dreaming I remember to recognize that I'm dreaming?".    The hands mantra seems attractive to me as well, I may just repeat it during the day during RCs along with my usual, unless gab you think that's too much switching around?

By the way, is there a limit to how many intentions one can successfully set for oneself?   I'm up to about 5-7 now, including remembering dreams, staying still, having interesting dreams, waking up after dreams, and of course, the MILD mantra.    Maybe if they're kept short and clear there is no upper limit?    I'm interested in other's experiences here.

p.s. gab I thanked my subconscious profusely this morning  :smiley:  and asked for more.   In fact, I've been doing this only for the past few days (thanking my subconscious, and putting in a few requests for what I'd like) and I got the sort of dream I was asking for!

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## FryingMan

p.s. thanks to Rothgar for the "zero distractions" control knob idea to clear the mind in order to fall asleep.

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## gab

RE: WILDing 

Mantras have a few purposes. (when WILDing)

1. They keep us focused on what we are doing, so we don't forget we are WILDing.

2. Once crossed over into a dream, they can remind you to do anything that mantra is saying.
For example: when I kept failing to stabilize, because first thing I did was jumping out the first window, my mantra was "slow down, stabilize". You can use any mantra to help you with any problem you have.

3. It quiets our mind by keeping other thoughts at bay.

I decide few hours, or even a day ahead, that I'm going to WILD later. That way I keep thinking about it and setting my intent. I also try to make it a special occasion and I look forward to my HH, sensations, dreams, and of course, a LD. This tell my mind what I'm after.

When I lay down, I start looking at the back of my closed eyelids, becasue that's where I expect things to happen. Like lights, any visuals, pictures and later videos. Also, I tell myself, that I'm ready for any audio HH and I'm not scared. When i don't forget, I tell myself "I'm surrounded by white light of devine love and protection" and "Only entities with my and above my level of development are allowed to be here, help and participate". This is just in case, that I happen to have OBE and to fell confident that nothing bad will happen.

Then I just enjoy the sensations I get from my body and any HH. I'm also ready to notice a dream, if it comes in more subtle way. For this, I have mantra "when I see my room, I get up", which I later shortened to "when I see, I get up". I started using this after a few times, I almost missed a LD, when it took me a while to realize that I can see my room with my eyes closed. I was so sure I'm still awake, since in my head, I was still thinking about what to cook for dinner. That's when I realized, that transition can be so smooth, that it's hard to notice.

Then, when I feel vibrations, I try to "see" my arms by raising them. If I feel as if my real hand would move, I don't continue. But when I suddenly see my arms in front of me, and my eyes are closed, I know I can get up.

Another way is to just rool out from the body. I just give it a gentle rolling over command and when I feel a slow-motion rolling and then me slowly falling off the sofa and floating to the ground, I know I'm sleeping.

I keep trying these thing even when I'm sure I'm still not asleep. Because one day you will do it, and you will move your dream body and be lucid.

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## gab

> Verrrrry interesting night last night !    On another thread fogelbise recommended I tried DEILD since I have a number of wakings during  the night.   I read a little bit about DEILD before going to bed.    On my first waking as I became aware that I was waking up, I remained still, eyes closed.    So I decided to try a DEILD.    I did not have a dream immediately in my mind, so I asked "What was I dreaming about?" and the dream scenes right away came flooding in.  I chose a few to visualize and tried just to fall back asleep.   Alas,  I did not make it in to the dream and ended up fairly alert after 10-15 minutes when I decided to MILD and go back to sleep, but I think I had a successful "try" -- I remained still despite my body "screaming" to move, my hands were very uncomfortably painfully numb from my position, and I had to badly go to the bathroom.   Maybe if I had not had these very strong body feelings I may have made it!   I stopped because I felt like I was tending towards wakefulness rather than sleep (although I did "dip" towards sleep a few times) and I didn't want to miss more dream time.   (I also got a bit tired of hearing the "Love Boat" theme song playing in my head over and over  The Love Boat - YouTube, starting about at 0:50 ).
> 
> So I went to the bathroom, quickly voice journaled just keywords from the scenes I recalled, immediately went back to bed and did MILD (back to the DILD topic at last  ).    It took a while to fall asleep, but I used the trick of visualizing turning a "distractions" knob to "zero," where it clicks and a little green light goes on (had to do this a few times), and trying to detach myself from the process of falling asleep (so I'm not paying it much attention, like I just don't care), trying not to think about my body, and I did get back to sleep in not too long a time (maybe 10-20 more minutes, it's interesting that time seems to move faster in the "real world" than in the "trying to go to sleep world".  In any case 10-20 minutes is way better than 2-3 hours).
> 
> No lucids (you can bet I'll announce the first LD with trumpets blaring here!), but I did end up having a unique, first-ever-for-me very vivid dream!   It was not vivid visually, it was mildly hazy on visual details in fact and took place in a slightly dark room (in fact I thought in the dream about turning up the lights), but my "awareness" was vivid, if you know what I mean.  My consciousness was totally involved, I did not get close to thinking about whether it was a dream or not, but I was fully "there."    I recalled a continuous scene of awareness and interaction that lasted maybe 5-10 minutes before the "wacky random" dream stuff started happening again.
> 
> It was one of those mornings where you wake up and go "YES!" pumping a fist in the air .   I've had one other like that in the last 3 weeks (a flying one, which was more visually vivid but still had that heightened sense of awareness, presence and confidence that was so awesome).   In fact in this dream I also was very very confident, no hesitation at all about what I was doing.
> 
> Can't wait for the LDs, but having vastly improved NDs along the way is really really cool.
> ...



That was great DEILD attempt! I'm a huge proponent of reading articles on DV, and re-reading them. That's how I had my first DEILD. Not sure if I already linked it to you http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...cid-dream.html

Practice yelling during day "vividity now" "focus now" "clarity now". Yell it like you mean it! This is great to use in your lucids, but perhaps it will help you in non-lucids as well. Since waking life and your practice does reflect in your dreams nicely.

I think I used only one mantra for my first LDs. But I used morre than one RC - hands, palm and nose. But those didn't make it into my dreams until later. I would say pick one mantra that feels the best and stick with it for a while. 

I have my hands down. I look around and I get the feeling I could be in a dream. I expect something "dreamy" to happen. Like my TV to float up, or pizza guy walking throught the door, or anything. Then, I start saying mantra and when I come to the part "I look at my hands" I swing my hands up and look at them. Then I put them down and bring them up again...

While I'm saing mantra, I'm imagining how cool it will be/was, when I realize/realized I'm lucid. I also recall a happy moment from my life, when I had this funny, happy and exciting feeling in my stomach and I try to feel it when I'm saying "I realize I'm dreaming". This helps my mind to associate me being happy with getting lucid. And our minds listen to us more than we think. All we need to do is to tell it what we want.

Intent - I would concentrate at 1-2 relating ones at a time. 

I would thank my mind for my drams and ask for more in the morning.
Mantra about realizing I'm dreaming during day and as falling asleep.

I had my first DEILD without mantra, just after reading an article on DEILD. I guess I just set my intent while reading the article, something like "oh, I gotta remember this. great advise". And I guess that was enough. Because when time was right, I was able to recall all info from that article, as if I had photographic memory.

For me, DEILD is a thing of chance. I don't actively pursue it. I just wait for the moment when I by myself, don't wake up too much.

I would rather concentrate on DILDs at night and practice WILDs in morning naps, or WBTBs.

And good job on talking to your mind. It had worked for me as well. And you know what, with your level of excitement and dedication, and doing everything right, I know you are about to have a LD.

I'm sure I left something out, so please ask :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> And you know what, with your level of excitement and dedication, and doing everything right, I know you are about to have a LD.
> I'm sure I left something out, so please ask



Thanks!   I sure hope I'm doing everything right.    I don't know if I'm putting enough mental effort into the actual MILDing when doing back to bed, doing it long enough.   But for right now the basics of recall and figuring my sleep patterns out so I can get back to bed are probably more important.   In addition to the full MILD steps (recall, visualize, say mantra, imagine becoming lucid), I will do just a few mantras as I'm falling back to sleep if it's taking me a while, as the full steps tend to make me more conscious and take me farther from sleep.

Well I had a fairly sucky night last night.  Constantly interrupted doing pre-bed intention meditation (my # of wakes has decreased from 4 to 2 for the last several days, and less recall [other than 2 nights ago which was an amazing dream as noted above], so I wanted to really establish the "I wake up after every dream and remember it in detail" intention again), small argument before bed, went to bed mad, took me a while to calm down enough to sleep.  `Actually I think I had enough wakings, I just didn't have the will to do recall.    Only came through with a few fragments in the morning.   Still not nothing, but not up to my better nights.   Tried to go back to sleep at 7 hours after bedtime in the morning, too much distraction from wife waking up and flailing around.   So I just got up with the idea I'd try a nap once the house quieted down later.

Eventually house got quiet later, wasn't really tired, but felt I could sleep if I tried though since I did get up about an hour early.   I was pissed about the bad night and wanted to get another dream in, so I went for a nap.   Loooooong time falling asleep, but eventually did.   I'm not a napper traditionally, and I don't fall asleep easily with even the slightest distractions around once I'm up during the day, even with earplugs and sleep mask -- it took a lot of effort!   Emptying mind of thoughts, keeping mind relaxed and receptive instead of "clenched" on thoughts in "full on" day alert mode.   Couldn't sleep on back (I did nod off but my snoring woke me up), couldn't sleep on side (normal position), tried on stomach which is what I do in the mornings sometimes when I have the bed to myself and can spread out a bit, got comfortable and it worked!    Woke up, recalled a few fragments, enough to satisfy me that I could dream in a nap, goal achieved, happy that the whole night then wasn't a waste and I jumped out of bed because I had to go do some WL things.   I had the "dreamy" feeling upon waking, pretty sure I could have gone back to sleep again, but had stuff to do, so no go.

Eating lunch I was reading something and encountered the word "insect," which BOOM brought in another fragment from the nap dream which I had not recalled in my hurried waking (I was inside squishing bad ants, and the more I looked the more I kept finding, they got larger and larger and yuckier and nastier kinds of insects).   I think this is one of the first times I'd had a mid-day recall moment.

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## FryingMan

$%@%#%!!
Bad night.  3 hours of sleep, 2 puny 10 second fragments of recall.   Just couldn't get back to sleep after the first waking and MILDing briefly, and nothing helped, not the "turn off the distractions knob," nothing.

I tried staying off the computer several hours before bed to "enhance sleep" -- hah!   Guess that my computer use is calming in some way.

Or it could have been I ate too much from my tryptophan shopping spree -- peanut butter, humus, whole grain bread and crackers.  Threw in some mussels for B12.   Stomach was too full, that did bother me a bit.   

A few other deviations from routine: I had the 2-hour-ish nap in the afternoon, and I went to bed a bit earlier than usual.   Normally I fall asleep in minutes at bedtime, but last night it took probably an hour.   

Gotta stay positive.   Remember the awesome dream from two nights ago.   Stay positive!   And stick to the routine.

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## FryingMan

I'm going to change my "question reality" query from "Am I dreaming?"   to "Where am I (and why)?"   "How did I get here?"  finishing with:   "Why do I think I'm awake?" (with some RC checks like nose/hands, etc.).   Of course the danger of "Am I dreaming?" is you could just zombie-like answer "no" and keep going.   I've had it suggested that instead I should assert that  "I am dreaming!" but that doesn't feel right either, especially when I'm surrounded with proof that I'm not.   So instead of assuming what my state is, I plan to cultivate a critical check including memory and some RCs.

As I creep towards one month of LD training with no LDs,  my attention is starting to stray to things like: induction aids like audo tracks, diet (tryptophan), and.....the red pill: galantamine.    I really don't want to get "hooked" on anything like that and want my LDs to be "all natural," but I'm wondering if a little LD "assisted vacation" from time to time wouldn't help with motivation...?

I think all the signs are there for getting close ("lucid dreaming" appearing in my dreams twice recently, once audibly and once live in front of my eyes (doh!)), I'll hang on, I'm shooting for the "one LD by the end of Septamber" still as my goal, and hopefully exponentially doubling LD frequency every month (faster would be OK too!).    Must.    Not.     Give.    In........(unless anyone has recommendations for an awesome safe aid that is not LD-addictive [meaning you can't LD without it after using it]).

----------


## FryingMan

I guess I'm officially making it my intention to fill in a daily report here.   Not a "dream journal", but a "LD training experience" log.   Hope it doesn't get boring.   I think it will be informative looking back to see the day by day thoughts, feelings, and experiences of an LDer-in-training.   

Feeling better today.   Many WL distractions last night, but still managed consistent sleep with several wakings with decent recall.   Didn't get all journaled (again due to WL interference), but still I feel like I'm heading back away from my mini-recall "dry spell" to normalcy (multiple wakings with multiple dreams recalled).    Slept long time, 11-ish hours, making up for only 3 hours the night before.   Read some about "REM rebound," it seems like something dreamers would like to do?   

Tryptophan and choline binge before bed last night.   Tried a little bit of everything:
1 teaspoon soy lecithin granules4-5 smoked mussels (B12)1 cup apple juice (1 hour before bed, and 1/2 cup in middle of night during WBTB)cup peppermint tea before right before bedpeanut butter on multi-grain/seed breadhummus on rye crackers30 drops Valerian extract in water 10 mins before bed
In terms of judging the effectiveness of the lucid food/stuff: I can't say that I had any vivid dreams, but my recall was improved, and I didn't toss and turn trying to get to sleep.
Going to bed at night I had strange tingly feelings all over my body.  Maybe tryptophan/choline overload?   Too much stuff taken too close together?

In the morning around the 8 hour mark I was dozing back to sleep and suddenly noticed the "full body buzz" as I call it: like a mild-medium electrical / numbness buzzing throughout my entire body.  It's not painful.    It's unexpected arrival though sort of jolted me alert.   I believe this is my own "body is falling asleep noise", as I've experienced it before.   What the heck I thought, maybe I'll get an unplanned WILD, and starting in with '1. I am dreaming, 2. I am dreaming" but the buzzing quickly subsided and I became alert/awake.   Darn.   Rolled over and went to sleep, had some more dreams, woke up at 11am and had to get up for work.   I probably could have slept more.

My goal of my first lucid dream by the end of September is rapidly approaching.  Good thing I still have 2 weekends (6 nights) left before I hit that deadline.   I sleep in our place outside the city Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights, where it's very quiet, dark, practically no distractions at all.

I like the new state check ritual: "Where am I?  Why am I here?   How did I get here?   Why do I think I'm awake?"   It feels natural, and forces me to review short term memory and to examine critically my environment and my reason for being there.   I absolutely know the first time I do this in a dream I will become lucid!

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## gab

> Gotta stay positive.  And stick to the routine.



Yes, and yes. I understand the need to have it all - wakings, dreams, recall, lucids,... But, it all should be a pleasure to do. If it becomes a chore, or something that is not pleasant to do, or it makes us mad if we don't get it, that's when we know we are trying too hard. We have all done it. It's importantant to realize that even "failiures" are teaching us something.





> I'm going to change my "question reality" query from "Am I dreaming?"   to "Where am I (and why)?"   "How did I get here?"  finishing with:   "Why do I think I'm awake?" (with some RC checks like nose/hands, etc.).   Of course the danger of "Am I dreaming?" is you could just zombie-like answer "no" and keep going.   I've had it suggested that instead I should assert that  "I am dreaming!" but that doesn't feel right either, especially when I'm surrounded with proof that I'm not.   So instead of assuming what my state is, I plan to cultivate a critical check including memory and some RCs.
> 
> As I creep towards one month of LD training with no LDs,  my attention is starting to stray to things like: induction aids like audo tracks, diet (tryptophan), and.....the red pill: galantamine.    I really don't want to get "hooked" on anything like that and want my LDs to be "all natural," but I'm wondering if a little LD "assisted vacation" from time to time wouldn't help with motivation...?
> 
> I think all the signs are there for getting close ("lucid dreaming" appearing in my dreams twice recently, once audibly and once live in front of my eyes (doh!)), I'll hang on, I'm shooting for the "one LD by the end of Septamber" still as my goal, and hopefully exponentially doubling LD frequency every month (faster would be OK too!).    Must.    Not.     Give.    In........(unless anyone has recommendations for an awesome safe aid that is not LD-addictive [meaning you can't LD without it after using it]).



That is a good way to question reality. But just remember, in a dream, it will feel like waking life. You will not realize you are dreaming untill you do. So don't assume in waking life, that you are awake, just bacause you are surrounded with "proof" that your are awake. It will be same in a dream. Good way to conquer this is to have mentality "it looks like I'm awake, but I will check anyway, because I could be dreaming". You don't have to have this as a mantra, just think about this throughtout the day. I can't tell you how many times I was absolutely sure I'm awake and did a RC just because I read about that possibility here on DV and got lucid.





> I guess I'm officially making it my intention to fill in a daily report here.   Not a "dream journal", but a "LD training experience" log.   Hope it doesn't get boring.   I think it will be informative looking back to see the day by day thoughts, feelings, and experiences of an LDer-in-training.   
> 
> Feeling better today.   Many WL distractions last night, but still managed consistent sleep with several wakings with decent recall.   Didn't get all journaled (again due to WL interference), but still I feel like I'm heading back away from my mini-recall "dry spell" to normalcy (multiple wakings with multiple dreams recalled).    Slept long time, 11-ish hours, making up for only 3 hours the night before.   Read some about "REM rebound," it seems like something dreamers would like to do?   
> 
> Tryptophan and choline binge before bed last night.   Tried a little bit of everything:
> 1 teaspoon soy lecithin granules4-5 smoked mussels (B12)1 cup apple juice (1 hour before bed, and 1/2 cup in middle of night during WBTB)cup peppermint tea before right before bedpeanut butter on multi-grain/seed breadhummus on rye crackers30 drops Valerian extract in water 10 mins before bed
> In terms of judging the effectiveness of the lucid food/stuff: I can't say that I had any vivid dreams, but my recall was improved, and I didn't toss and turn trying to get to sleep.
> Going to bed at night I had strange tingly feelings all over my body.  Maybe tryptophan/choline overload?   Too much stuff taken too close together?
> 
> ...



REM rebound does exist. I'm not a big fan of it. My first LD was only after about 3 hrs of sleep. I shudder what would have happened, if I didn't have it because I took something for rebound. And since then, maybe that's why I'm reluctant to take 5htp for rebound - I just don't want to miss any dreams I may have.

Try not to worry about a deadline. It may put too much pressure on you. Some people report success, when they stop "wanting" to have a lucid. Give yourself a 1-2 day break from practice. Don't wish for it. Then after 2 days continue. But think more of an intent, then a wish. The difference is like between you "knowing" that you are going to work in the morning, and "wishing" you went to someplace else instead. One is a wish, one is a given, done deal.  ::alien::

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## FryingMan

> That is a good way to question reality. But just remember, in a dream, it will feel like waking life. You will not realize you are dreaming untill you do. So don't assume in waking life, that you are awake, just bacause you are surrounded with "proof" that your are awake. It will be same in a dream. Good way to conquer this is to have mentality "it looks like I'm awake, but I will check anyway, because I could be dreaming". You don't have to have this as a mantra, just think about this throughtout the day. I can't tell you how many times I was absolutely sure I'm awake and did a RC just because I read about that possibility here on DV and got lucid.



Thanks for the feedback, I absolutely do this seriously considering each question.   The great thing about this approach is that it is much harder if not impossible to take shortcuts!   You can't answer "how did I get here?" or "why am I here?" or "where am I?" or "why do I think I'm awake?"   with "yes / no" and just move on.

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## FryingMan

> And good job on talking to your mind. It had worked for me as well. And you know what, with your level of excitement and dedication, and doing everything right, I know you are about to have a LD.



Hey gab, guess what...?  You were right!!  ::banana:: 
I got my first lucid last night!!  It was amazing.  Detailed post to follow later.
Lasted about 30 seconds to 1 minute, I'm very pleased I didn't snap out instantly!
However I did run through the dream like a giddy schoolboy  :smiley: . So much for stabilization goals  :smiley: 

Yay I made my goal, in fact it was in the night of lucid living day 31 so I even made it right at the edge of 1 month!

I know you said not to stress about deadlines, they're goals more than deadlines, and for me provides a little extra boost in motivation, as long as I don't stress as you said.  Laberge writes that goals are extremely valuable, always set aggressive but achievable goals, and always adjust them as you progress.

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## FryingMan

Two little words have rocked my world and changed it forever: "I'm dreaming!"

It was several minutes in to an extended fairly vivid ND dream sequence about 7.5/8 hours after bedtime that I recall very well (because it became an LD?  Does becoming lucid in a DILD tend to boost recall of the ND leading up to lucidity?).   I'm descending down stairways leading through a rectangular building (frequent dreamsign).  I recall passing little cramped workplaces packed with large collections of fine and delicate tools and equipment.  I reach the ground floor, encounter a man, I'm talking with him (skipping detail here just to get to the good stuff).   I'm standing fairly close to him.     I notice all of a sudden he has a one-or-two foot-long, scabbed and bloody looking pointy monster/gremlin ear.   I'm inspecting it fairly closely.    Without any stirring of a critical faculty, with no sense of confusion or wondering what was going on, and without performing any RCs, the thought just pops into my head: "I'm dreaming."    

I'm instantly lucid!  The effect cannot be adequately described though many say it's like everything becomes very vivid.  The best way I can think to describe it is like transitioning from watching a movie on a screen, to being quickly sucked into the movie and becoming present in the scene.   It was bizarre and fascinating.   Some part of me I think was saying "I did it!".     I also had a quick concern about losing lucidity, but didn't hold on to that for long.  I forgot my WL "first time lucid" stabilization practice entirely, I didn't even rub my hands, I just started looking around and the thought that I had to find a certain kind of person also instantly presented itself.    By the way the man turned in to a red-haired woman with a normal ear I think (red haired woman is also a dreamsign), I'm not sure if the transformation of the man to the woman happened before or after the "I'm dreaming" trigger.

So I start my search for this person: I scan around the room that I'm in (it's like a large library).   DCs are seated along the wall opposite me in chairs.   THEY'RE ALL STARING AT ME!   They all have these blank expressions, bordering on disapproving, that seem like they're thinking: "just what do you think you're doing, buddy?"  Kind of like, they're on the inside, and I'm not "supposed" to know what's going on.   I'm surprised but not really spooked, I didn't recall reading in other's DJs that DCs stared at the dreamer like that though.

I'm concerned I won't find the person in time, and I start running.   I'm outside on some kind of concourse, passing people, I can't find who I'm looking for.   Things start to fade to gray.   Without thinking about it I right away start spinning to my left.  Two, perhaps three rotations, then stop, and the dream scene is back.   Do I take this moment to ground myself, to stabilize, to "make out with the ground" to get all the senses involved in the dream?   No, of course I just start running again, doh!

Before starting running I did make an observation on the "feeling" of the visuals.   They were clear and fairly crisp/vivid, not super vivid though.  I had the distinct feeling like I was seeing everything through a viewfinder of an HD video camera.

Maybe because of this thought of the video camera analogy, I use my "telephoto zoom" vision which I just seem to know I have  :smiley:  and I see whom I'm looking for ahead of me.   I run up and meet the person, and the dream starts fading again.   I spin around instantly again, but no luck, I wake up.

I'm pretty pleased at this first LD experience.   I did not instantly wake up after becoming lucid, I had the sense to make a note of how the dream "felt" visually, and I responded like a reflex to the fading of the dream with spinning.    Of course, better would have been remaining calmer, not following my impulse, and stabilizing via vocal commands and engaging all the senses.    Next time, I hope!     

Thanks for all the support and encouragement, I'm sure they helped!

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## FryingMan

After waking up and pumping my fists a few times  ::banana::   ::banana::   ::banana::  and voice recording my experience (and some the ND leading up to the LD, and some earlier recalled NDs), I starting considering, "just how did I become lucid?"   I felt no critical faculty arise, I did not question the reality of the dream, and I performed no reality check.

Last night was a "complex" LD-night.   I woke up once with no recall at about 4 hours, a bit bummed, usually I have at least a fragment or two at the 4 hour waking.   So I focused just on setting intention for: remembering dreams, and waking up after each dream.   At 5 1/2 hours I woke up with recall, one 90-minute period following the previous waking, so the "wake after each dream" intention seems to have taken.   At some point I briefly tried FILD, WILD, and did some SSILD cycles.   Mixing stuff alot.    After the SSILD cycles I had trouble getting back to sleep, it took an hour at least I think.  Then once I woke with the recall of some dreams, I did MILD with a small adjustment: instead of looping through: recall scene, visualize with mantra, visualize becoming lucid, repeat, what I did was: visualize scene, say first part of mantra: "Next time I'm dreaming I remember to recognize that..." then pause, and then visualize becoming lucid, saying "...I'm Dreaming!".   Then rapid-fire I visualize a series of scenes from the dream back to back, like a slide show, at each one I say to myself "I'm dreaming!".   So the mantra goes something like:  "Next time I'm dreaming I remember to recognize that....I'm dreaming!...I'm dreaming!...I'm dreaming!...I'm dreaming!" with each "I'm dreaming!" each time changing the scene in my head, to associate many different pieces of the dream with "I'm dreaming."    During this I'm trying to get the same "feeling" I get when setting a prospective memory target, just as LaBerge says to do.

In the dream when "I'm dreaming" popped into my head, it was VERY similar to doing a WL prospective memory exercise, the same feeling when you encounter a target in WL and the prospective memory association "fires" and you get the "ping!" feeling of recognizing it.

It also so happens that earlier during the day I increased the intensity of the prospective memory exercise.  Instead of just settling on 4 targets for the day, I resolved to keep a running set of 4 targets at all times:  when I realized that I'd hit or missed a target, I set a new one right away.    I think this  kept the "goal" seeking center of my brain active throughout the day, instead of just shutting it off once the 4 targets had been hit or missed.    I also realized in the middle of the night that  I had missed my "brushing my teeth" target earlier before going to bed, another clue that the goal center was still activated perhaps?

Anyway, while there was a big mix of techniques, I'm pretty sure that it was a pure MILD LD.

Lucid "aids": drank a cup of peppermint tea (Dutchraptor claims this enhances dream vividity, albeit he uses it with St. Johns Wort which I haven't got yet), at the 4 hour awakening drank a cup of apple juice, when I couldn't get back to sleep, I took 30 drops of Valerian extract.  "Sleep juice" as I thought of it, it helped and I got back to sleep in probably 10 minutes after that, with the new MILD "I'm dreaming" repetitive approach.

The LD occured about 8 hours after bedtime.

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## FryingMan

Three days in a row this week (Mon, Tues, Weds nights) I just couldn't go back to sleep after waking up around the 6th hour of sleep, journaling, super quick bathroom visit, and BTB for MILD reps.   Tried Valerian only on Monday, didn't help, and didn't want to build up a Valerian resistance so stopped trying that.   Slightly bummed due to the loss of the key REM times 3 days in a row.   However, each time later in the morning I did get back to sleep for some more dreams (effectively a 3-hour or so WBTB, so more like "late morning nap" I guess  :smiley:  ).    Each time in the late morning attempts I felt myself falling asleep really slowly after MILD reps, so decided to try WILD.   On Thurs (yesterday) morning, I made it in to a short WILD!  I switched mantra to "Patience....." after getting some feedback from Sageous that being patient is part of the required mindset.   I was definitely "holding on" to awareness much more lightly this time, almost falling asleep unconsciously.    I just barely realized it as a dreamlet presented itself and did not vanish right away, it stayed about 4-5 seconds.   This was suprprising/new (normally the dreamlets vanish pretty quickly), so this nudged my mind a bit, and I told myself "This is a dream" and unfortunately instantly woke up after that.   I saw a winter scene and was looking out over a frozen lake.   

I have a solo weekend coming up, 3 nights of absolutely no distractions, so I'm looking forward to some great MILDing.

Last night had trouble falling asleep right at bedtime (wife came to bed late, woke me up).  I read in bed for about 15 minutes and that did the trick!  I fell asleep fairly fast after that.   Have to remember to power of reading in making me sleepy, and to keep some boring books by the bed  :smiley: .

Also, I was able to get back to sleep after the 6th hour awakening finally Thurs (last) night, which made me happy.    Had a nice variety of dreams and fragments.   I know that I forgot a bunch before I could get to the journal.

In my enhanced Prospective Memory exercise I hit 10/12 targets two days ago.   It's definitely effort to constantly choose and set intention on new targets, but I feel my PM improving, and note that my "goal center" seems generally more active reviewing the targets during the day.

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## gab

::breakitdown:: 

Yeeeey, awesome, congrats! See, I told you  ::D: 


Yes, I agree that setting achievable goals is a good thing. You can even decide to "reward" yourself for achieving something. Like recall a dream, or even as you did, to have a lucid. But if you don't succeed, don't be disappointed, angry, or punish yourself. I know you would not do that, because I can tell, that you have a very good feel about the whole LDing thing, and you know, what helps and what can hinder it. Btw, I strongly believe, that every attempt is worth of appreciation, because it will teach us, one way or the other.





> The best way I can think to describe it is like transitioning from watching a movie on a screen, to being quickly sucked into the movie and becoming present in the scene.



I get a very similar feel myself.





> DCs are seated along the wall opposite me in chairs. THEY'RE ALL STARING AT ME! They all have these blank expressions, bordering on disapproving, that seem like they're thinking: "just what do you think you're doing, buddy?" Kind of like, they're on the inside, and I'm not "supposed" to know what's going on.



Funny  ::D:  Reminds me one of my very first LDs. I get lucid and all excited and I say "Hi" to a little girl. She rolls her eyes, as if thinking "oh, great, another one. You are not the first to get here, so get over it".

Yeah, I still get super excited most of the times when I realize. And I like it, even if that wakes me up. But it looks like you are not gonna be waking up that soon. Good job keeping it up for 1 min.

Often we get lucid, it seems like "out of the blue". No RCs, no questioning, no nothing. But you see, those things happen only after you get some tiny bit of awareness in a regular dream. And that is a fruit of your labor. All the mental prep you did. The awareness, RCs, questioning reality, working on recall, thinking about dreams and LDs.

And congrats for getting closer to a WILD. The dreamlet is indeed a good sign. Now you know you can get to it. I do get excited as well, but I also try to be just a pasive observer. That's the best mindset for a WILD.

So, your progress is huge. You doing great. Keep at it and Happy dreams ::alien::

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## FryingMan

Last night was one of those dreaming nights you wish you could put in a can and just keep opening again and again!
 :Awesome Dance: 
Day: lots of prospective memory targets.   Medium number of state checks, a few Sageous RRCs.
Before bed:
One hour of transcribing my voice journaling into written journal for a couple days.
 ~1 teaspoon lecithin granules, couple of glasses of apple juice
Read for about 45 minutes (helps me get to sleep faster I've found).

Bed at *01:00*  Thank SC for dreams, ask for more LDs, put in request for particular themes.
wake at *05:17*, no recall (may have been some earlier awakenings, I thought, hey, I didn't recall doing any journaling yet, and I was pretty sure I had some earlier light recall)
drank 1/2 cup of apple juice
then did some MILD reps based on previous night's dreams
and did some SSILD cycles for good measure.
wake at *06:17*: LUCID!
Progress!  A different lucid awakening moment, this time: critical faculty!  I was in the middle of a (somewhat bizarre) conversation, I was asking an old friend about his hush-hush new business venture.   It had to to with coaching (kids?) football.   I said I had not ever coached football but that I had coached soccer (true in WL).  I tried to hand him a card from my wallet, when all my cards fell to the ground.   About 10-15 of them, I'm kneeling down trying to pick them up.   And I can't.   They just keep falling out of my hands, they just won't get arranged how I want them to be.   Then I think, "Hey, this is a bizarre situation, I should check to see if I'm in a dream" and BOOM as soon as I said "dream" I became lucid.   Same "sucked into the movie" feeling as the first DILD, I instantly stood up in amazement.   I was *so sure* that I had been awake before, I was almost in shock to realize it was a dream.   No RC again like DILD #1, as soon as the word "dream" popped into my head after and I had the notion to question my state, I was instantly lucid.  

 And I wasn't super-confused before being lucid, like I am sometimes in dreams, it was more like light puzzlement,  the flavor of the thought was, "oh, this is one of those times when things don't work like you think they should that you're supposed to see if you're dreaming."   If I can get consistent with this then my frequency will skyrocket since I have these moments all the time.   I missed one earlier in the ND portion: I saw a shooting star (cool, it went all the way across the sky).  Then more, and more and more shoting stars (whoa!).   Then I saw colorful pinwheels of stars in  the sky, I tell my friend "Look!  Check that out!"   Then I see a huge picture/ scene in the sky and first am filled with wonder, but quickly think, "Oh, someone must be running a projector somewhere" and my attention moves on.  *Doh!*

Again, right away the very high/giddy excitement, I completely forgot and blew off the ND conversation and DCsI, I just turn around and walk through the crowd of people and head down the corridor, no clear goals in mind.   Without willing it, I suddenly float like a balloon up to the roof of the hallway and stay there, looking down.   I get a grip on myself, and *rub my hands together* (yay!).  I feel my hands rubbing and and see them briefly, feel a little heat.   Right away I float down to the ground, and feel more in control.    (I wish I had right then done a thorough stabilizatation / dream quality shouting, but I didn't, I guess I felt sufficiently stable.)

I start walking the hallways looking for a way out.   All the people have vanished.   I'm walking through a building, observing, looking for a DC to talk to.  It's sort of a cluttered industrial "backstage" place, lots of random stuff around.   

I decide to try summoning.  I say to myself "there's a DC around that next corner."   I look around the corner -- empty hallway.  Darn.  I turn around, walk back, and then try "there's (my prepared-in-WL special dream location) through that next doorway.   Nothing.   Just an old woman in the distance.

*Have  the idea to stabilize* (woot), I decide to try "making out with the ground" as heard in a podcast here on DV.   I  lie down on the ground on my stomach and lick the floor.  I'm only wearing underwear, and I feel the grain/grittyness of the wood floor on my stomach and arms.   I lick the floor with my tongue.  No taste, though.   In retrospect I think it's better to "make out with the wall" since lying down can be risking a waking.   

I want to get outside, to where more people are.  I'm still in the very high-ceilinged storage room, the same area I've been in for a minute, I see a sign/doorway about 15-20 feet above the ground.   At one point it says "exit" I think and at another it shows a big picture of a person in a swimsuit.  Must be the way to the pool, I decide to go there.

 I start climbing up a dresser to get to the exit/door and have a Matrix moment (as in, "do you think that's *air* you're breathing!?"), thinking I'm going about this the wrong way.   Some things are in my way, I try to "jedi force blast" (I wasn't actually thinking "jedi force blast" I just pushed my hand forwards and willed the stuff to zoom out of my way) them out of my way, I succeed in moving a few things out of my way.    Then 3 people came in to the room from the swimming pool entrance  above me and I woke instantly, no fade to gray.

Thought briefly about trying DEILD to get back in but decided I wanted to journal and remember.

Subjective time: 2, maybe 3 minutes

Thanked my SC and asked for more!

*07:20* MILD reps and SSILD cycles
*09:37* woke from vivid ND , just what I asked SC for!
*09:57* trying more MILD and SSILD
Couldn't sleep, very excited, going over dreams in my head
*10:43* trying more MILD and SSILD
*12:44* woke from another awesome reasonably vivid ND, many details forgotten, but still fun

Woohoo, one month to first DILD, 1 week to second DILD (with 3 days of missing the key REMs), shooting now for multiple per week!  And it didn't need to wait for the late morning REMs, it came around the 5th hour.

There is a very different feel between my 2 DILDs and the recent vivid NDs: in the vivid NDs I'm totally confident and feel entirely in control, in my LDs I'm excited but my attempt at control was more "hopeful wishing" than "confident expectation."    That's the next thing.

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## gab

Wow, congrats!

I very much enjoyed reading your description. I can feel the excitement and I'm happy for you.

I'm sure the control will come after you read some more accounts from people describing how they walk through walls, fly, summon... That's what I strongly believe is very helpful. Every time I read something, I think "oh, so that's how it works". I think that, even if I don't think that actively. But my mind is paying attention to even those thought of mine, that I'm not even aware that I have.

I really wanted to 'summon' Tahiti. So I practiced in WL. I pretended that I just got lucid (complete with excited and shocked feeling that you get when you really get lucid). I imagined beach behind me and thought "when i turn around, there is Tahiti". Then I turned around and imagined it being there. It took a few tries, but I finally got it. 

Happy dreams.

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## FryingMan

The back-to-sleep portion of WBTB is an ongoing challenge.   I think my progress would be even faster with more quality dream time, especially the 7th and 8th hours.   I must spend effort to learn about what works for me to get me back to sleep quickly to get the most out of both MILD and WILD:

0) I already wear earplugs and use a sleep mask.
1) relaxation techniques...take them seriously, study more about them, find what works for me.   Audio tapes?   I prefer not to sleep with earbuds in, I understand it's bad for hearing.
2) getting enough exercise so that my body needs 8+ hours of sleep (I just have not done this...and it's beneficial for general health, too!)  
   Just started exercising today.   Nice long fast walk/slow jog in the park for an hour.   Body held up quite well, pleasantly enough  :smiley: .
3) not eating fatty/big meals just before bed...keep it light for several hours before bed time.   Milk/yogurt, fruit.
3.5) relaxing bed time drinks: peppermint tea.
4)  melatonin issues (I'm middle-aged, again, and melatonin production supposedly starts to fall off in middle-age)?   Tough for me since we live next to several strong streetlights outside our bedroom window and my job has be on a computer all day long.
 Get thicker curtains?    Acquire sour/tart cherry extract?
5) lucid-friendly diet.   Keep up with the B6, B12, tryptophan, choline providing foods (which are generally quite healthy).
6) experiement more with natural relaxants like Valerian.   I see this as only a "once in a while," I don't want to become dependent on them or to build up a resistance to them.
7) try keyword *only* journaling during middle of the night wakings.   Journaliing can take me upwards of 20 minutes even for brief dreams, as I like to go for details.   Trust my memory that details will flow back in with the right keywords / tags chosen.

I'm hoping the "easy" (physical) ones will yield results: regular exercise, lighter/smaller meals, lucid-friendly diet.    

Positive attitude, set intention: "I fall asleep easily, right when I want to" (can't say "I fall asleep quickly" or that intention might hurt WILD?).

Big goal: get dream recall, vividness, duration, sleep quality, sleep time up to vacation levels while living the daily city life.

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## FryingMan

Yet another bad sleep night.   This is really starting to suck.   Bedtime around 00:30, awake with a few fragments of recall at 04:30, did some MILD reps and couldn't get back to sleep, tried continuously to get back to sleep until  around 07:30 (it doesn't feel that long somehow), when I got up to do the family morning getting everyone ready tasks.   BTB around 09:30, I feel super tired, like I could sleep in mere moments upon lying down, but I still couldn't fall asleep!   I very quickly got close, but every time I got close, and felt the final "drop" off to sleep starting, I woke up.   Lather, rinse, repeat, over and over.   

I tried to keep my mind empty.   It seems to be something to do with my eyes, maybe I'm watching the HI/HH with too much attention and keeping me too alert. I saw tons of little dreamlets, some a few seconds long, but I paid them no attention and refused to be temped to try an impromptu WILD, because I just wanted to sleep because I was so tired!    When I was not focusing on my visual input I felt like I got more relaxed and closer to sleep.  I tried holding the "hearing focus" of the SSILD cycle, moving all attention to my hearing away from my eyes and holding it there, and I found this got me drowsier and closer to sleep pretty fast, but I had trouble holding it for very long periods of time, long enough to sleep.

   I also felt a few "WILD noises" (vibrations) but ignored them.     During the 04:30-07:30 wakeful period, I got the "loudest WILD noise" I've experienced yet: very unpleasant pressure in my chest, and a loud roaring in my ears.   I was lying on my back at the time.   Normally I sleep on my side and the WILD noise only comes to relatively mild full body vibrations.

Eventually I fell asleep, don't know for how long.  And I dreamt, and I recall a few short scenes.

Now I'm concerned that something is "broken" about how I fall asleep.   

On the one hand I feel great that I've made good progress in recall and having my first LDs within 5 weeks of effort.

On the other hand missing all this sleep consistently is missing all the dream time and potential LDs.     The odd thing is that I don't actually *feel* all that tired now that I'm up.   Maybe I overslept on the weekend when I had my 2nd DILD and was in bed for about 12 hours straight on a dream marathon and got too much "sleep in the bank?"

I got good exercise both yesterday and today.   I'll keep up the exercise.   I'm avoiding overeating and junk food.

Hope this phase passes very soon.

Ideas/advice?

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## bemistaken

> Positive attitude, set intention: "I fall asleep easily, right when I want to" (can't say "I fall asleep quickly" or that intention might hurt WILD?).
> 
> Big goal: get dream recall, vividness, duration, sleep quality, sleep time up to vacation levels while living the daily city life.



Hi FryingMan!

I think you are on the right track with maintaining a positive attitude and focusing on recall.  For many months, these exact factors are the only things that kept me going.  When I focus on keeping a positive attitude (even adding some humor into it) I feel like I am accomplishing something...and you are!  Even if I don't get lucid, I still have hit the jackpot because I gained a positive attitude in the process.  Keep up the great work!  :wink2:

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## FryingMan

> Hi FryingMan!
> 
> I think you are on the right track with maintaining a positive attitude and focusing on recall.  For many months, these exact factors are the only things that kept me going.  When I focus on keeping a positive attitude (even adding some humor into it) I feel like I am accomplishing something...and you are!  Even if I don't get lucid, I still have hit the jackpot because I gained a positive attitude in the process.  Keep up the great work!



Thank you bemistaken!  Yes I must remember my progress, that I've already had 2 DILDs and a tiny WILD, and several long, vivid NDs that were really awesome, that I never would have had without all this entire experience.   Not to mention the weird/funny situations of the regular NDs.     I'm impatient I know for more, I want LD mastery right away!   The fairly severe backwards progress in recall and sleep quality due to returning to busy city life after vacation was a bit of a downer.   But keeping a positive attitude, and calmly working around issues is the way to go, all the while never giving up.   I thought last night would be the first night of zero recall since I started LD training, but lo and behold, I relaxed, and asked myself "what was I dreaming about?" and a few scenes came back to me!

In fact last night I had a pretty good sleep night, probably 8 hours at least, and an OK recall night.   The goal was falling asleep quickly after each waking after a few MILD reps, and it basically worked out pretty well.  Woke twice, (5.5 hours, and 7 hours after initial bedtime) and both times got back to sleep and dreamt more.   I could have slept more but I got up 9.5 hours after bedtime, and I wanted to quickly go to the gym.  I think the extra exercise is starting to catch up with me and making my body want to sleep more (yay!).     My obstinate desire to stay in bed until I get a dream to recall may have been throwing off my sleep schedule, making and endless cycle.

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## bemistaken

Hi FryingMan,

You are doing so well!  Just continue with concentrating on your sleep schedule and recall and you will be there before you know it and don't for to RC every time you wake up!





> I want LD mastery right away!



You are not alone...me too.  :smiley:   Good luck to you and happy lucid dreaming!

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## gab

> I also felt a few "WILD noises" (vibrations) but ignored them.     During the 04:30-07:30 wakeful period, I got the "loudest WILD noise" I've experienced yet: very unpleasant pressure in my chest, and a loud roaring in my ears.   I was lying on my back at the time.   Normally I sleep on my side and the WILD noise only comes to relatively mild full body vibrations.



Well, the body sensations and HH are suppose to be observed passively, that's true. But they can also be an indicator, that a dream/lucid dream is very near, just seconds away. 

From my experience, and also have read about it, there are a few main ways how to get into a LD with help of HH sounds, images, or sensations. http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ntry-wild.html

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## FryingMan

slow recall early morning, made up for it with late morning BTB / nap. Room too cold. Incubation! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Night started out with initial bed time long to sleep, unusal for me, especially in the country where it's quiet.  Maybe ate too much too late, including too much sugar.

Didn't journal during the night, despite some wakings with a bit of recall.  Room too frickin' cold!

Got up after about 6th hour waking, tried more sleep, didn't feel it coming, read in bed for a while, late morning nap resulted in a bunch of recall with a lot of different scenes.

Every dreaming experience is positive!   Must remember that.     I think I'm going to stop writing "trouble sleeping" because I seem to be setting intention and creating a self-fullfilling prophecy.   This night, I actually did some unintentional incubation (and some intentional): I imagined petting my cat while trying to relax and fall asleep.   And I saw a dream about my cat!   I also got a (vague/partial) small portion of a scene which I specifically tried to incubate before bed.

Tonight I'm going to try very minimal artificial light: screen brightness to minimum, lights basically off starting at 7pm, just one indirect light enough to see keys on keyboard.   Need to get a laptop with lit keys!    Hopefully this will get my melatonin maxed out.    Lots of B-vitamin: multivitamins, smoke mussels for B12, soy lecithin for choline.    Apple juice.   I don't know yet if it helps or not, but I actually feel a great deal better now than I did a few months ago, paying attention to exercise and nutrition makes a big difference in overall well-being, which hopefully will transfer into sleep.

Need to get back to *regular schedule*!    That's one huge difference between now and in my first 3-4 weeks of lucid training where my recall shot up to over 10 scenes per night, sometimes as high as 16.   My to-bed time is all over the map, 1-2 hours differnce from night to night sometimes.  That's got to be affecting everything, recall and time-to-sleep.

Also, only electronically journaling now.   Probably need to return to at least pen and paper intention setting.

Goals helped get to lucid #1 and #2.   Got lazy, haven't kept a goal journal for dream recall and more LDs.   Do that soon, tomorrow perhaps.

Continued prospective memory exercises.    Typically about 8-10 targets per day, doing 4-5 at a time, set new targets once old targets get hit/missed.   Some days close to 100% hitting them all.   

RCs and RRCs count a bit low today.  

Will set incubation intention tonight as well.

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## FryingMan

This is quite exciting. If unintentional incubation works (as it has a few times), I thought intentional should work even better. I thought of two scenarios last night and "asked my SC" to present them to me in dreams. They both occurred! They were fairly majorly transformed from my original visualization (to fit into the story line I guess), but I have no doubt they came from my incubation intent! I'm like 4/4 now in having "dropping off to sleep" thoughts show up in my dreams that same night (two unintentional, two intentional). 

If this is true (and it seems it really is), then it must be a fairly short path from just "theme" incubation into lucidity incubation! 

I feel that "the next time I'm dreaming I remember to recognize that I'm dreaming" is too long and cumbersome. Yet I'm leery of "going against LaBerge" and shortening it just to "I'm dreaming" with accompanying visuals of dream scenes and becoming lucid in them. But when I'm tired, I just can't get that whole mantra out without mangling it or having to think too hard about it.

Does that seem like a good approach? Just visualizing a scene and repeating multiple times to myself, "I'm dreaming....I'm dreaming...." That's basically exactly what I do for my prospective memory exercises and I have a pretty high "hit" percentage now every day.

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## FryingMan

Regular exercise during the day for a couple of days now, regular to-bed time, mostly regular getting up time (getting up after the same amount of sleep, about 8 hours), getting out of bed after 20-30 minutes instead of tossing and turning for hours, seem to be paying off with better sleep and recall on the rise again.   Getting back to sleep takes a while if I get mentally stimulated (doing recall, journaling, MILD, and SSILD), and I did get up for some time in a rocking chair last night (hey, real WBTB  :smiley:  ).  But I got two solid late morning sleep periods with some decent recall, so that's good news!

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## gab

Your progress is amazing. And kudos for your enthusiasm!

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## FryingMan

Focus on sleep for the last several weeks paying off.  I'm getting to sleep, and back to sleep, fairly easily, in both city and country.  On the couple of times I couldn't recently get back to sleep in 30 minutes (once in city, once in country), I get up out of bed, move to a different room, grab a quick snack if hungry [small bowl of whole-grain cereal], sit in the dark visualizing desired dreams, doing MILD reps, saying my mantras, relaxing, maybe doing some SSILD cycles.   After about 20-30 minutes up like this sleep came soon after returning to bed both times.

On top of that the regular exercise has me feeling great.   A chronic pain in my shoulder is much better now with swimming and hot sauna/steam baths.

Been slacking a bit on DJ -- getting several days behind transcribing my voice journal entries.   I usually remember all of the elements of of the dreams that I end up remembering enough to journal, but after waiting several days to transcribe, one dream had entirely fallen out of my head except for one small moment.   It was like reading someone else's dream journal entry!   It's important to transcribe same day, both for memory and for keeping LD expectation high.

Now I need to establish and maintain a goal journal for LDs and for recall, and get my RC, RRCs, imagination, expectation, intention training back into full swing.  Taking a fresh look through the DJ for reocurring dreamsigns probably also a good idea.   Also need to slowly add back in MILD reps and perhaps SSILD cycles after journaling, while maintaining quick back-to-sleep.

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## FryingMan

Confidence building in city dreaming.   I'm paying close attention to conditions (like room temperature) to make them as dream-friendly as possible.   Street noise not bothering me now with earplugs in and a fan on for some noise-cancellation.   City recall starting to rival country recall, and that's a very good thing leading to a positive outlook.

I did have one ND where the terms "MILD" and "WILD" occurred in my thoughts. That's a good sign as dreaming about lucid dreaming marked a short countdown to my earlier first LDs, so DILDs need to be popping back in any time now (you hear me, DILDs!? Tonight, now that the competition has started!). And with DILDs back I can attempt DEILDs upon LD exit.

I also realized I'd woken up from a dream for the first time in a while.    I was able to hold still and do recall.   For the last several weeks I've woken with no immediate dream in my head and immediately turned over, but in those cases the old reliable question "What was I dreaming about?" continues to work every time.   I've noted that I seem to dream a fair amount even in the first 1-2 hours of the night when I wake up then, but more often I don't wake up until 3 or 4.5 hours (I don't use alarms, just intent "I wake up after every dream and remember it".)

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## fogelbise

Hello again FryingMan  :smiley:  I was asked to help out in this area of the forums so let me know if you have any questions. You and I have been in some of the same discussions, mostly in Sageous' threads and now in the competition thread (where you are ahead of me; keep up the good work!). You may just be using this workbook to track/record your progress and you do seem to be more studious than I so there could be things that I could learn from you instead (including your work and success on getting back to sleep)! 

Let me know if you are looking for feedback, but in the meantime...one quick note on SSILD, which has been great for me, is that for whatever reason CosmicIron suggests to not combine it with other techniques during the WBTB. I may take another look at the tutorial, it could have been taken out of the latest revision and I am not sure if that would help but it is how I used it. I just get up (sometimes after putting a quick note in my DJ), go to the bathroom, lay back down and do the cycles (there is some built in awareness just doing this I guess). I did tweak the cycles as well to help me get back to sleep more quickly most of the time.

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## FryingMan

Hi fogelbise!   I was stoked to get DILD #3 in the competition even if it was short.  It was different from #1 and #2 in that the moment of lucidity was more of a smooth transition into awareness instead of an instant shocking moment.   I also didn't go running like crazy through the dream (the fact that I was already ... occupied ...  ::D:  ... may have had something to do with that).  I did think I should work on some competition goals and did tell myself "do a reality check" for the first time in a dream.

I'm very happy that I've re-learned now how to fall asleep.   I may now in fact be approaching the opposite challenge -- waking up enough to journal and recall sufficiently, do some MILD/SSILD reps, and gather some awareness before heading back to sleep.   Which for me is the much preferable problem, I really don't like lying in bed awake at night.

I'll do the basic relaxation tense/relax, very quickly, particularly focusing on the forehead and the jaw.  Mostly the jaw, I hold a lot of tension there typically.   I've added very fast tense/relax of arms/chest, then abdomen, then legs/butt, then toes/feet.

I've discovered I tend to become alert by placing focus on my vision: focusing on my closed eyelids.   Usually when I "shock" back to alertness my focus is immediately and strongly on the vision sense.     I've found that focusing on hearing (as in the hearing/ears axis in SSILD) removes the focus on vision, and that is very relaxing for me.   My eyes then become relaxed and unfocused and I'm more "looking" using my "mental vision."    I then gently remove the focus on hearing and leave the eyes unfocused, and I'm quite relaxed at this time and can fall asleep very quickly from there.   

Sometimes I have thoughts that pop in, some which bring alertness.   I do a trick I read somewhere about just acknowledging the thought and then ignoring it / letting it go.  I used to get upset about these thoughts waking me up, which created an endless cycle of tension and alertness boosting each other.

And then sometimes if the thoughts don't let me go I imagine the top of my head opening up and the thoughts just spilling out.

When I do breathing going to sleep I will "push" myself forwards into my relaxed mental vision on each exhale, and feel like I'm sinking "deeper" and "farther out" from my body on each exhale.

I think that perhaps the relaxed vision will help with WILDs, where the challenge is not snapping back to awareness when something interesting happens ("noise" sensations, dreamlets).

I'm really working now on boosting the daily "I'm dreaming" repetitions ala BrandonBoss, and I'm also including Sageous's RRC with each one.    And getting in more RCs.

I do about 12 rhythmic reps of "I'm dreaming..." (sometimes with visualization, sometimes without), followed by "do a reality check" where I do the physical nose plug, check hands [including verifying the rings], close each eye to see nose, and maybe pull/stretch finger, and push finger through palm.  And I then say "past/present/future" and think back through the day, what I'm doing now, and what I'll be doing later.      Once in a while I'll do the RRC along with this: "I exist!  I affect everyone/thing around, everyone/thing around affects me".

I'm trying to do that all throughout the day now.   I'll keep it up for a few weeks and see if it brings me to BB level  :smiley: .   I know I'm still new but I'm really hoping to get the LD frequency and quality up very soon.

I've met my goal of 1 more LD in October, I'm now modifying that to yet one more by the end of the competition (1.5 weeks).

I'm also going to up my WILD attempts to at least 3/week.

edit: about SSILD, I know CI recommends nothing else.  But I think that combining the SSILD reps with MILD visualization may be stronger.   I take strict sticking to techs with a grain of salt.   Both my first two DILDs came with the combination of MILD and SSILD.   As BB notes, Bruce Lee's famous quote:  "Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own."

Now that I can get back to sleep when I want to, I will try some experiments of MILD and SSILD each on their own, and perhaps add some WBTB which I didn't need to do before but may need to do now.

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## fogelbise

(I started typing up a response and lost it...computer issue...anyway, trying again...)

Congratulations on your latest LD! There are so many great nuggets in your post above! It is just another example of why I said you were a true student of LDing in the other thread. If you continue on this path, I have no doubt you will be up there with the best of them!..and I am not saying that lightly. I recommend letting BrandonBoss know that you appreciate his tips anytime you get the chance. I am not sure if I did that as much as I should have. 

I will definitely try out some of the getting to sleep methods you use and perhaps tweak them if necessary, thank you for sharing! Oddly enough I have my highest percentage of success recently when I have trouble getting to sleep, eventually having a WILD entry. I think the struggles getting back to sleep may be putting me in a lighter sleep though because I often wake up too quickly from my lucids. Most of my SSILD successes early on were all DILDs which I need to bring back into the mix more.

WBTB - it sounds like you already understand that you have to find that balance between staying up long enough to reactivate your waking memory (without thinking of waking concerns of course) and short enough that you can get back to sleep (and you have addressed that quite nicely!).

RCs, RRCs, and your mantra: Early on it was hard for me to pair these up with the right mindset. I was doing the exercises but not with the best mindset I think. If you have that down, you are doing well. I believe Sageous calls it a sense of wonder I believe. I liken the alertness that I think is helpful to the feeling that you might have in a dark room right after watching a scary movie and checking over your shoulder...wondering, could I be dreaming right now and something could leap over the couch at any moment?

Great job meeting your goals and making new ones! Yes, the frequency should definitely go up with time, especially with the approach that you are taking. I think most people that get good at it go from having LDs a couple of times a month,  to maybe once a week, to several times a week with the right commitment.

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## FryingMan

Thanks again!   Yes I'm appreciative of BB's responses, good point to let him know that frequently.  It's really interesting that in the beginning, about the first month, leading up to my first LD, I had "easy" recall that developed pretty quickly.   It was just all there right when I woke up, and I would wake up 3-4 times per night.   Now, with the sleep optimizing schedule (trying to be regular, getting tiring exercise almost every day, etc), the recall comes a bit slower and there seems to be a bit less than in that first month.    I know I'm forgetting lots of dreams/details upon waking.  That was always true, even a month ago, but I seem to be remembering a bit less now, every night.  That might be a bit of the initial excitement and anticipation wearing off, I suppose.     I think the sleep issues after the first LD may have been even higher anticipation and excitement due to experiencing the first LD.   Certainly it was also due to the increased alertness that comes with doing MILD reps.   SSILD also seems pretty stimulating to me in the past, but I'll start integrating it back into the nighttime schedule.

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## gab

That's some excellent info from both parties. Awesome schedule, Fryingman!

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## FryingMan

DILD #4 last night, with several very important firsts: first LD in the city, first LD sharing a bed, first LD within 1 week of previous LD.   I've proved to myself that I can LD anywhere, not just in my lucid hideout  :smiley: .    Short LD, but sweet (in my DJ).

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## fogelbise

I think it is important to celebrate those firsts. I feel it helps you to build on them. Next thing you know it will be first time 2 nights in a row, first time more than one LD in a night, first time 3 nights in a row, and on and on! 

I also like those magical dream girls! It does feel like young love sometimes!

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## FryingMan

Woohoo I would love to hit and maintain that progression soon!   Being sick this week (still far from well unfortunately) has given me the proverbial 1 step back after the two steps forward.    Recall is on its way back (pretty good recall last night) but it couldn't have come at a worse time in the middle of the competition when I really need a lucid with some extras.     Daily RC practice almost nil while sick, gotta get the lucid mindset jump-started yet again.

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## fogelbise

Definitely too bad getting sick  :Sad:  Things like that, going on vacation, getting super busy definitely can temporarily slow down the progress...but you definitely can get it back! You will be back at it in no time. Get well soon!

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## FryingMan

Finished just on the wrong side of a photo finish on the competition, oh well.

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## fogelbise

You were practically tied for first! And you are very new to all of this. That is fantastic!! You should definitely take that as a nice success  ::D: 

I have been meaning to ask you about your glottal stop RC. Do you know what it is supposed to feel like if you are dreaming? (I have only tried it IWL).

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## FryingMan

^^ Thanks!   Yep quite close in the contest.        I have yet to do any RC while dreaming so I have no clue about the glottal stop RC  :smiley: .      I think it will feel like closing off the back of the throat but still being able to breathe.     The key I think is doing it a bunch in WL and getting used to how it feels, at what muscle movement closes the airway.   It doesn't take much to do it, I'm trying to get into the habit of doing it every once in a while when trying to fall asleep when it takes a little longer than normal.

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## fogelbise

Cool. Did you think up the glottal stop RC or did you read it somewhere? Seriously, I would celebrate coming out as fresh to this whole thing and finishing up at the top! Speaking of times it takes longer...reading what Sageous posted about being patient and enjoying the quiet time while waiting has given me incredible peace during my WBTB/WILDs. I can point you to the post if you didn't see it, it was about techniques to use when having trouble getting to sleep. Will check my PM.

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## FryingMan

Oh no I can't take any credit for the glottal stop RC, read it somewhere when looking for a motionless RC.   And I'd appreciate the link to the article you mentioned from Sageous about taking longer getting to sleep.

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## fogelbise

Found it:
http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/12557...ml#post2057511
link jumps you directly to the specific post, not the greater thread...

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## FryingMan

Woohoo DILD #5 just a little while ago.   Could have used it a few nights ago in the competition!  Will DJ later today.    Fairly amazing night of dreams.    Stabilized: ran my hands all over the ground and railings, seeing and feeling the textures.   No running, no rushing, no succumbing to temptation, slow and considered.   Did first RC in a dream: hand check.  My hands are FREAKISHLY BIZARRE:   constantly morphing, uncountable (because constantly changing, but many more than 5 in any case) "fingers" growing and shrinking, little gnarled mini-hands growing out of my hands in place of fingers.  Consciously ignored the females around, could it be there's hope for me ?  :smiley: .   Duration: a few minutes.   Spent the whole time re-looking at my hands and feeling a bit embarrassed about how weird they were.   Wondered if DCs saw my hands as I saw them.  Woke up with no transition, said "darn!".    Thought about trying to DEILD back in, tried for maybe 1 minute, decided to journal instead.

Goal: 8 LDs in November!   Progress: 1/8

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## fogelbise

Awesome! Congratulations on your calm approach and another LD!  ::D:  I guess you can always do the other tempting things later (if you choose to) when you feel that you have control in the palm of your hand. Nice recovery from your illness and nice aggressive goal!

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## gab

Nice going, FryingMan!

Looking at hands is my favorite RC and when I RC in a dream, 99% of them I do the "hands". My first hands looked like lizard's toes. Next ones, like a mummy. Now, they look normal, only I always have either more than 5 fingers, or they are deformed, like shorter or such. But they have right color and everything. So it's a huge surprise when I see normal hands and I count 6 or 12 fingers. I love that.

Good luck and happy dreams ::alien::

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## FryingMan

Last night was shaping up to be an epic night of recall at the very least, but I just got too tired and couldn't get up the will to record after the first three early wakings.   I actually had some recall at 2 hours, fairly unusual for me, probably because I was woken by some outside noise (I didn't have earplugs in) but most of it slipped away and was just left with a fragment.  Put in earplugs.  Then I had great recall at 3.5 hours and 5.5 hours, very detailed recollection of several interesting scenes, but it was a struggle to stay awake and record.  The next thing I knew it was 10.5 hours and I was left wondering what the heck happened with the rest of the night!?

Not surprising, still recovering from last week of sickness, and my sleep schedule is in tatters.  Multiple hours difference in to-sleep times per night.   Renewing my resolve to get to bed early and regularly.  I wonder if the accumulated loss of sleep over the last several months of waking multiple times per night is catching up with me?  

 I seem to have flopped entirely to the other end of the sleep spectrum: instead of not being able to get back to sleep, now I can't stay awake enough to do recall and record!    Got to find that happy medium, and it's probably to be found in a very regular sleep schedule and in getting enough sleep.

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## fogelbise

I also need to get to a more regular sleep schedule as it is apparently very important. I wouldn't worry about feeling lazy...sometimes it is nice to take a break and just doze off...you don't want to burn yourself out but rather keep the right balance in your daytime practice as well so that you can continue progressing. 10.5 hours, wow, perhaps you were catching up. I also use earplugs and find them to be a great help.

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## FryingMan

I've been working on WILDs this last week since I had the bed to myself with spouse away on a trip.   3 formal attempts, one half-assed attempt.   Each time starting the WILD around 5 hours after bed, and each time spent 2-2.5 hours awake.   Once I think I got lucid but there was no dream there, or maybe I didn't quite make it in, it was accompanied by the "lead blanket" sensation / labored breathing and "that DILD feeling".     But on the 4th day I just wanted to get right back to sleep and hopefully DILD, but even though I was really tired my body had gotten used to waking up at the 5 hour mark, and couldn't fall asleep! 

Today I woke up for the first time at the almost 6 hours (I was yawning all during the day, super tired after 4 days of reduced sleep) and still couldn't get back to sleep right away!   I watched myself falling asleep, and even got the 'lead blanket' / shaky breathing sensation, but there was no "lucid feeling" that went with it, and I tried visualizing rolling out of bed or looking at my hands but I think I just wasn't asleep (at least my mind wasn't).   Looong time getting back to sleep.   Woke at 9 hours with some recall but too tired to journal, next thing I know it's 11 hours and I have to get up and get going.   Journaled some recall from the earlier waking (most detail lost unfortunately) and the last waking.

Oh and I spent at least a solid minute in the last dream period studying a menu in a bar.   Over and over and over again, trying to choose a combination of two liquors to make a cocktail.   The dream did not fade or collapse while doing this.   So I wonder about the "don't focus your attention too closely on one thing for too long or you'll lose the dream" advice.

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## fogelbise

Yikes FryingMan, I am really sorry to hear about all of your loss of sleep! I have been there too, so I definitely hear you. That is the primary reason I save my true attempts until the weekend when the pressure is off and I feel like I can sleep in to make up for any loss of sleep. It seems to help to not worry, wait or try hard. Were you using SSILD at all? If so, after months of experience with it, and CosmicIron's warnings about frequent FA's I am starting to believe that at least some of the time I thought I was trying to get to sleep, I was already sleeping. I base this on more recent experiences where I guess I am in the trance he describes and let go of the idea that I am waiting and it happens more easily. It sounds like you are already addressing the possibility that you could have been asleep with your attempt to visualize rolling out of bed. I am not real good at that either except when I know that I am dreaming, but the way most people describe it is something a little more that visualizing it. I forget where I read it but you can practice IWL by looking at say your finger and imagine activating the muscles to move your finger...actually feel like you are activating the muscle...but don't. Some feel like they can move their actual finger or fingers slightly in the dream or half-dream state without waking themselves up as in this link: http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...ream-fild.html (I can't recommend it since I only remember using it once in a DEILD and can't be sure if my actual fingers were moving).

By the way, I am able to get back to sleep more easily during the week but I am doing the bare minimum when I get up to go to the bathroom and I am slowly working myself up to above the bare minimum depending on how I feel.

Do you feel that you have less trouble with sleep when you are going for your DILDs?

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## FryingMan

> Do you feel that you have less trouble with sleep when you are going for your DILDs?



Generally, yes, although I found that SSILD (and to some extend MILD) tended to REALLY wake me up, so I don't do it regularly.   My first two DILDs were both with a MILD/SSILD combo (and a day intensely thinking about LDing, immersed in DV, working on my journal, doing prospective memory exercises (> 10 targets in the day).   My next two DILDs were I think MILD only, and my last DILD was definitely no SSILD.   My first sleep issues manifested when I started MILDing seriously during the night, and SSILD as I noted.   Now I generally can get back to sleep when just MILDing, but not this week as everything is out of whack as I noted.  I felt like I had to take advantage of a distraction free bedroom this last week, thus the back to back to back WILD attempts.   And I think I made some amount of progress so I think it was worth it.  

Just need to really work on proper relaxation, and get the excitement out of the system during WILD attempts, and as always establish regular sleep scheduls, which I have not yet been successful at doing.   When I started LD training I was on vacation and so was able to peg a very regular schedule and that I think helped the progress.

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## fogelbise

It is definitely a process, so keep at it without burning yourself out. Do you mind if I ask what is getting in the way of a regular sleep schedule? For me what gets in the way is the desire to stay up late, since the time I need to get up is fairly consistent during the work week.

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## FryingMan

> It is definitely a process, so keep at it without burning yourself out. Do you mind if I ask what is getting in the way of a regular sleep schedule? For me what gets in the way is the desire to stay up late, since the time I need to get up is fairly consistent during the work week.



1) Non-cooperation from spouse.    I want to get to bed by either 23:00 or 00:00 and she's always later than that.   So I almost always end up going to bed sooner and she wakes me up when she comes to bed, or I just lie there anticipating her coming to bed.

2) staying up too late.   I'll do this when I go on a binge of movie-watching for example.     But generally the lessor reason, and not the reason this week (I was guilty of this last week though).

I just need to apply strategy, and say really work on getting us to bed at 23:00 so we end up making it there together by 00:00.   

My 5th-6th hour wakefulness is still with me.   Last night I slept great from about 00:00-01:00 to 06:00  I think I had a waking in between but just went back to sleep.   Was still sleepy at 06:00, had some recall, did only quick keyword journal, getting back to bed as fast as I could, it was just a few minutes, but I just couldn't get back to sleep, and 07:30 rolled around and I was "volunteered" to get up and do the kids morning routine.   Turned out it the temperature was 20-21C in the room, the heaters were both on, I've found that I can't sleep well above about 17C.   After the morning routine, I debated going back to sleep in son's bed or heading to the gym right away, decided I was stubborn and didn't want to go without some more dreaming time, so went back to bed in sons's bed at around 08:30.   Looooooooooooooooooooong time getting to sleep.    Hovered on the edge a long time, sometimes quite a bit of HI, but somehow "holding on" too hard and snapping back to wakefulness.  This time I tested it: did non-moving RC several times, confirming I was still awake each time.   My new strategies for sleep don't seem as effective right now as they were before.   I went back to good ol' 61-point relaxation, and that helped some.   I think doing the WILDs 3-4 nights in a row a week ago got me in the habit of closely observing the process of falling asleep, which (other than still being the wrong thing to do even in a WILD attempt) is pretty much guaranteed to not allow sleep.    Eventually did sleep, not sure when, and woke up at 12:30 with some recall.

I refuse to let my body get happy with only 5-6 hours of sleep.   I was sleeping and dreaming away for long periods of time at the end of the summer (end of August and into September).   I may start melatonin soon, maybe even a tiny dab at the 5-6 hour mark, if this continues.   But I prefer to do this without taking anything if I can.

I'm doing well with getting regular exercise, not every single day but most days.   I may need to up the duration a bit to make sure my body wants more than 6 hours a night.  I'm feeling great from the exercise,and together with my flu of 3 weeks ago I've lost some weight and am keeping it off.   I also don't eat closer than 3 hours to bed (other than a glass of milk and a banana perhaps) which also helps with the weight loss.

I really want to keep working on WILDing but it seems to wreak havoc on my sleep, at least the way I do it.   I'm not happy with my DILD frequency so perhaps for now I should focus on it exclusively.  I want to get regularly up to and maintain *at least* 1 LD per week as a short-term goal.      Medium term I want 4/week, and long term 8+ per week, or 1-2/night regularly.

November goal is looking in jeopardy, I'm still only at 1 LD out of the goal of 8.   I'll try to use the goal motivation for succeeding at the sleep schedule regulation.

Still doing my daily LD rituals: I now have a phone app set for a notification every 20-ish minutes: I do RCs (mental and physical and memory), an RRC, and recite "I'm dreaming".

I've stopped doing prospective memory exercises, and I should start those up again since there was a correlation with doing better with those and getting more DILDs.

I'm also skipping transcribing my voice journals and get to get only once every few days.   Doing that every day regularly will probably also help.

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## fogelbise

Hmm...how to get the spouse on board? That would seem to help a lot if you can manage that! Sometimes I do convince my wife to turn off the tv and go to sleep letting her know she is keeping me awake and affecting my sleep when it is truly keeping me awake. I normally sleep quite deeply and quickly when I first go to bed, so my wife could probably jump on the bed most nights and I would keep sleeping...later on in the morning is a different story though. I can not speak on melatonin, but I also don't like to take anything if I can avoid it (basically, unless I am sick)...so I have avoided supplements so far...I do drink apple juice occasionally and have tried mustard but not sure if either made any difference.





> I really want to keep working on WILDing but it seems to wreak havoc on my sleep, at least the way I do it. I'm not happy with my DILD frequency so perhaps for now I should focus on it exclusively. I want to get regularly up to and maintain *at least* 1 LD per week as a short-term goal. Medium term I want 4/week, and long term 8+ per week, or 1-2/night regularly.



Focusing on DILD is what I would also suggest (but you always know your situation best) and you can definitely work up to your long term goal eventually of 8+ per week. Dutchraptor is at that level and it looks like he came to DV with experience already (or perhaps joined after first lurking) but check out his very first thread here:





> Hey guys,
>  For about three weeks ive been keeping a journal, auto suggestion, reality checks etc. As expected my dream recall improved dramatically, I tried nearly all techniques according to people experiences her on dv. Now that i started having ld's i realise that only two techniques work for me... DILDing and DEILDing. The signifigance of this is that here on dv nearly everyone posts that wilds are easier and so on, yet i fail to see how??. Other than being more aware in a wild, a deild;
> is easier to achieve
> takes a few mere seconds
> causes less loss of sleep
> is not boring
> 
>  now i understand some people have trouble keeping their eyes closed, but for me it happens naturally  I cant be the only one to think this??



So DEILDing is also a good way to get some experience WILDing but I can't imagine going the all out approach of waking up after every dream since one person I read wishes that they didn't wake up after every dream...so I just DEILD when the opportunity presents itself...usually after being ejected from a lucid or waking up to HH's occasionally.

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## FryingMan

Disastrous sleep night (awake for most of 00:00 - 11:00 it felt like) but I don't care because I got LD #7  :smiley: 

Not a bad dream night atually: 4 wakings, good recall from each one, long continuous scene in one.

Some more firsts! 
+ first FA
+ first LD in childhood house (big big big for me I dream about this home and its neighborhood almost every night)
+ first nose pinch RC -- did it twice, could breath both times, nose felt a bit "flimsy" and not at all connected to breathing pipes.
+ first successful summon of DC
+ first LD sex (may have been non-lucid at this point, felt a bit flimsy)
+ first DC command control

I'll journal later on today but yay!    

November LD goals met: 2/8.   I still have time, woohoo let's make this goal!

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## FryingMan

Here's the DJ entry: First FA, bad sleep, but good recall and fun/funny dreams

edit: my extreme wakefulness may in fact have led directly to this LD: like a loooooong WBTB, I was so used to being awake in my WL room that the transition to waking up in a different place was immediately jarring, and of course the remnant increase awareness of being awake.

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## JoannaB

I especially liked your tower and mushroom figures dream - interesting.  :smiley:

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## bemistaken

You got some excellent first FryingMan!  Keep up the great work!  ::goodjob::

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## fogelbise

Really, really cool FryingMan!! The mushroom bloodhounds are really memorable and the combination with their leader, the beautiful, misunderstood - some say evil - queen(this is the picture your dream was painting in my head) sounded like a great character for some fantasy story...loved it. Seriously. Is this a story or character that you have heard/seen or based on anything?

All the firsts! Very nice! With all that recall, it is hard to imagine that you didn't sleep more than you thought you did. And so impressive all of the dream control that you had in your cool lucid!

I came up with a new plan to try to get more lucids during the weekdays...I will test it out first (unless you want the info earlier I did bury it at the end of my 11/17 dj entry).

Very nice dj entry and progress all around!!

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## FryingMan

:smiley:  thanks!   No not based on anything that I know of, just a product of my usual random wild & wacky dreams.   I have many in my DJ from the past months that I have not posted on to DV, so while it was definitely up there amongst the funniest/weirdest, it's not unique.

  And no she was not evil at least I had no sense of it in the dream.    The mushroom bloodhounds ended up more comical than scary, although I was certainly in flight mode running for my house.

The thing is that while it can take a while to transcribe into words, the duration of the dream(s) was not all that long, maybe a minute or two at most, so that left a lot of time for lying awake.    Yes I obviously did sleep but it really seems I was awake for at least 4-5 hours, it felt like an eternity.

Last night I pretty much passed out right away and slept straight for 6 hours.   A bit of recall in the morning but definitely a "light" dream night.  There was lots of detail I forgot, I sense.   Did some MILD reps at the 6-hour mark and tried to fall asleep but the family woke up around me and even though it wasn't my day to get up and I got the bed to myself I couldn't fall back asleep.   But close, very close, in fact lots and lots of imagery.     I just need to let go that last little bit and not get stimulated by  the approaching imagery.

I just now tried for a late morning nap since I was still feeling a bit tired and almost made it in to sleep right away.    I felt a little "falling" but caught myself.   I also felt some mild rocking hallucinations.    I did sleep for just a short bit later on but no dreams.

It's not all that hard for me to get into that "relaxed" state pretty quickly, that first phase, but falling totally asleep is the current challenge.

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## FryingMan

p.s. recently (today's late morning nap attempt?) I saw something through my eyelids and sleep mask briefly.  It wasn't HI, I was "seeing" using my "eyes".   Very brief, but interesting.    Also a number of rocking sensations.   Also some HI congealed pretty convincingly into something like a laser printer that started to become clear, then faded back to a vague blob.

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## fogelbise

Oh, I was just letting my mind go off further with her character thinking that, though a beautiful woman, with all of those mushroom bloodhounds, she would often be misunderstood as evil by some...



> their leader, the beautiful, misunderstood - some say evil - queen(this is the picture your dream was painting in my head)



On nights where you need to make sure you get sufficient sleep I would recommend just doing the things that you know (reasonably well) that you can do and get back to sleep fairly easily (if you try anything at all). I am experimenting with a very short wbtb about 1.5 to 2 hours before I need to get up (during an 8 hour sleep schedule) with the benefit that I get a solid 6 to 6.5 hours of sleep initially and still have a chance to DILD and get more sleep which is the way it worked last night. That view through your eyelids and sleep mask seems promising! In your signature, I would put "Lucid FAs" (or "L-FAs" perhaps) to fully claim that success!  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

I am not sure what happened and why the thread got closed. I'm wondering if I checked a box accidentally when I posted my last post. anyway this should fix it!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Last sleep cycle breakthrough, thanks to my new best friend Mr. (Ms.?) Melatonin

Wow, I tried a 3mg tab of melatonin about 40 minutes before bed last night and the difference was impressive.   I woke about 4 times with dream recall just fine (no REM suppression?)  Going to sleep was not very fast about normal maybe I took it too close to bed.   But to-bed is not the issue, it's the back-to-bed recently that's been the problem especially after 5-6 hours.

Woke at: 3, 6, 6:45, and 9 hours with recall not my most detailed, but about average.  Recall fluctuates a bit night to night normally anyway.   Certainly better than the previous two nights with just one dream recalled.   Could have slept more probably but had to get going.   

Most important was getting back to sleep after the 6:45, I was fairly awake still in bed and doing some dream incubation visualization/day-dreaming and decided that the entire point of the melatonin was right now getting back to sleep for that last late morning sleep cycle , so at about 7:30 hours I used my new "relaxation" tech and it worked!   I got back to sleep.   Once I finally resolved to go back to sleep and let go of  the fun daydreaming it didn't take all that long.  

I had a dream then that by all rights should have been lucid: I saw my deceased dog, played with him and knew he was deceased and cried because I knew I wouldn't see him again (because it was a dream?   perhaps), probably the deep emotional feelings were too overwhelming.    Saw my family as it was 14 years ago with kids running around at that super cute age 3-4 doing funny things and saying funny things, all sorts of things in the environment wrong (why is the glass-top dining room table [which turned out to be part of a weird 2-piece piano] ruined?   Why is there a hole blasted in the fence in the garden?   Oh yeah because of the strong wind [which occurred in real life a few days ago]  Yes it's completely normal that my deceased dog purrs like a cat when petted, I "remembered" that he could do this).

Anyway that's just what I was looking for: getting that last late morning sleep cycle back.    Interesting that the 3 hour waking was normal: pretty detailed recall in fact.    Doesn't seem like I had much REM supression from the melatonin.    Maybe that means the 3mg is a perfect dosage for me dream-wise?

Do anybody know the chemistry of taking additional melatonin?    Does it basically increase the "bank" of melatonin floating around that then gets "burned off" normally throughout the night, so that you have a surplus all through the night?

I don't plan to take it regularly (yet) but it seems it may be effective in breaking through "can't get that last sleep cycle" dry spells.

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## fogelbise

That is great that your fixes are working! CanisLucidus seems to know a good deal about supplements and physiology, so you might ask him that question, or maybe he will see my or your post here.





> Saw my family as it was 14 years ago with kids running around at that super cute age 3-4 doing funny things and saying funny things



I love these kinds of dreams! I got teary eyed in a lucid with my son looking like he did when he was about 1 year old and then just recently seeing my wife as a 2 year old in an ND...just heartwarming stuff to me.

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## FryingMan

DJ for melatonin night: melatonin experiment, went pretty well - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Last night was unfortunately back to more of the usual sleep issues.   Couldn't go back to sleep after 5 hours waking, rolled around in bed a long time until wife left to do errands, stubbornly stayed in bed until I fell asleep again finally and dreamed, hours later.    Took a drink of herbal sleep stuff, it has Mother's Wort and rose hips.   It seemed to help get back to sleep, I dreamed but somehow my recall of it was weak, maybe the tea was too sedating, I just came away with a few fragments.

I did I think though get 95% of the way into observing the transition at one point!   I was falling asleep, not trying to WILD, and all of a sudden I noticed a quick kind of jumbled progression of images that seemed to solidify, but I became excited/aware and woke up.

I read in a thread here on DV that one technique to solidify the transition is to try to grab the imagery with your dream hands.  I may try that a few times.

Had some PMs with Hukif.   He recommended because of my back to sleep issues to avoid WILD, WBTB, and just do DILD with ADA, ADA/RC (like he does, he also can't get back to sleep if he's up for more than a few minutes), and DEILD.

I think WILD attempts somehow really messed up my going back to sleep ability -- even though I'm not trying  to, I end up getting jolted when the transition approaches or occurs or lots of HI happens.   Even though I like trying to WILD and I think I'm getting closer each time, for now I will focus only on DILD/MILD and DEILD.

I may try minimizing journaling as well to just keywords.   The thing is I really like all the detail I can remember right after waking up.  I'll try it both ways (full journal and keyword journal) and see how it goes, maybe giving the keyword journal a few weeks.

Again I'm a day behind on journaling.   Need to give this priority again so SC knows it's important.

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## fogelbise

Yikes. Was that trouble despite having repeated the dose that seemed to help the night before? 





> I think WILD attempts somehow really messed up my going back to sleep ability -- even though I'm not trying to, I end up getting jolted when the transition approaches or occurs or lots of HI happens. Even though I like trying to WILD and I think I'm getting closer each time, for now I will focus only on DILD/MILD and DEILD.



Sounds like a good plan, especially if it is being seconded by Hukif! He's such a cool, helpful guy with a lot of LD experience!

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## FryingMan

Woohoo LD #8.    Some more firsts:

+ 1st couch morning nap LD
+ 1st DILD aware from the beginning

I'm calling it a DILD even though it was WILD-like in some ways: slow falling asleep, a mantra but but only sporadic: "The next thing I see is a dream".  But I'm not "doing WILD" (maybe a 'psych out WILD'?) now, and I don't recall the transition, so DILD it is.

I appeared on the deck of my parents house (primary DS), it's twilight, beautiful view out over the water and the city, I immediately think "I'm dreaming" and get the lucid rush.   "All RIGHT.   Lucid from the start...awareness feels strong!" (anticipating doing lots of stuff)  but then vision faded to black  :Sad: .   I tried prying open my dream eyes with my dream hands and even had a notion of eyes opening but still black.    Tried imagining flying out over the view but I woke up.

About 10 seconds...   I probably was only very lightly asleep.   Not very satisfying but hey lucid is good, right?

While falling asleep I also tried grabbing HI a few times with dream hands but nothing was solid.

Also while falling asleep tried incubating a scene by injecting quick flashes of what I wanted, not trying to hold the visualisation, just "seeding" it and letting go.    Several times I noticed new things appearing, usually a DC I hadn't placed initially off to the side entering the scene.

November goals: 3 LDs / 8   Gotta really ramp it up, only a week left.

p.s. and no, I didn't take melatonin 2 nights ago (last post) or last night, instead tried a sleep tea last night with Mother's Wort and rose hips.     Recall very fragmented and short, and again the 5 hour waking thing and not going back to sleep.   I read some more on melatonin and some people suggest caution and say things like retina damage can occur, it can eliminate your natural melatonin production making you dependent, etc., so I think I'll keep it in reserve.

I'm going to start up effort on an ADA/RC: location.   My dream location is almost never somewhere real other than my childhood home or the home where my children were small.    Also my dream location is always in motion, with funny perspectives.    Maybe blend in some emotion sense as well, see how it goes.

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## fogelbise

#8!! Great stuff FryingMan, keep knocking those DILDs back and the experience will help you in whatever your pursue in the future!





> Also while falling asleep tried incubating a scene by injecting quick flashes of what I wanted, not trying to hold the visualisation, just "seeding" it and letting go. Several times I noticed new things appearing, usually a DC I hadn't placed initially off to the side entering the scene.



 Interesting, I was trying the something similar with my nap attempts. Was this during the nap?

On the melatonin, I just wanted to emphasize that I know nothing about melatonin, I was just curious if you had tried it again...sounds like if you can go without it that would be best.





> I'm going to start up effort on an ADA/RC: location. My dream location is almost never somewhere real other than my childhood home or the home where my children were small. Also my dream location is always in motion, with funny perspectives. Maybe blend in some emotion sense as well, see how it goes.



Do you have a game plan for this or is anyone advising you? My dream sign manta experiments incubated the dream signs into my dreams and I did DILD in a few of them, but it is all at an experimental stage for me.      CONGRATS once again!!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> #8!! Great stuff FryingMan, keep knocking those DILDs back and the experience will help you in whatever your pursue in the future!



Thanks!




> Interesting, I was trying the something similar with my nap attempts. Was this during the nap?



Yes it was.




> Do you have a game plan for this or is anyone advising you? My dream sign manta experiments incubated the dream signs into my dreams and I did DILD in a few of them, but it is all at an experimental stage for me.      CONGRATS once again!!



Well the inspiration came from my PMs with Hukif.   Basically the idea as he says is that ADA/RC is a "targeted" version of ADA based on your own experience in dreams, what you notice about yourself.   ADA is good too but it takes more effort, and doesn't emphasize your personal dream experience.   In my case #1 is location: I'm never in contemporary waking life locations in my dreams, and some locations repeat very heavily (parents' house).      A close #2 is emotion, usually way stronger in dreams, so I'm keeping half an eye open paying attention to my emotional state during the day (usually pretty calm).

I also specifically recently started frequent visualisation (kind of like daytime MILD reps) of my parent's house, "If I'm in my parent's house, I'm dreaming," "If I'm outside my parent's house, I'm dreaming", "If I'm in the neighborhood of my parent's house, I'm dreaming" and so on with lots of visuals from recent dreams.    It's very easy for me to accurately visualize my paren't house since I lived there so long during my formative years (about 17 years).    It must be working because my last two LDs were in my parents house!    If I can maintain that then I'm golden!

On a different note, I've said it before but I think it's especially fascinating that I find myself now remembering decades old dreams that I haven't thought about in, well, decades!    They're all up there, I think, just awaiting the proper association to trigger the memory.

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## fogelbise

> It must be working because my last two LDs were in my parents house! If I can maintain that then I'm golden!



Awesome FryingMan! It surely can't hurt to keep working along that line, refining as you go to meet your goals. And you know you've got some potentially powerful ideas when they come from Hukif. When I do daytime visualization I like to also visualize stabilizing and reminding myself about my goals which sometimes reminds me of the goals as soon as I become lucid.





> On a different note, I've said it before but I think it's especially fascinating that I find myself now remembering decades old dreams that I haven't thought about in, well, decades! They're all up there, I think, just awaiting the proper association to trigger the memory.



Isn't that great? The things we remember that probably would not have come back up were it not for this focus. Similarly what we were talking about before, seeing our kids or others when they were younger is just incredible, it feels like time travel to me!

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## FryingMan

::banana::   ::banana::   ::banana::   ::banana:: 

The firsts keep rolling in  ::D: .    Another short LD with vision issues.    Also I believe lucid seconds after the start.    And vision also faded (to vague lightness, not black this time.)    I'm new to this "lucid from the start" thing so I suppose I'll have to learn to let things settle, (look at the ground?   Rub hands?  Spin around?)

I was in my childhood neighborhood playground (3 LDs in the old neighborhood in one week, each one lucid, that intention stuff WORKS!)  

It was also dark-ish (twilight) like the night before, so this time I called out "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" with my arms raised up in the air  :smiley: .    Instead of a bright daytime scene I got a half-lit void thing with kind of a static-y nothing to see.     I then called for a DC "NN", a Girl Friday of mine  :smiley: , to pull me out of the void by the hands, didn't happen.    Dream then faded to awake.

Firsts!

+ first LDs two days in a row
+ first time 3 LDs in one week
+ first LD in close contact with wife (this may be huge, I've always so far avoided contact while trying to LD to avoid distraction...this may resolve a subconscious tension I've been carrying about wishing there were less distractions around.    Instead I thought of feelings of love, warmth, and comfort, and I got to sleep and LD'd!).

I also used my new favorite mantra a bit, "the next thing I see is a dream"

November progress: 4 LDs out of goal of 8, I just may make it!     Still feeling tired, time for a nap, hopefully I'll get some more!

edit: did ADA/RC (location) yesterday all day.   Kept it up a good amount of the time.   Noticed when I'd let it slip on multiple occasions and reinstated it.    It's actually challenging to keep up when not moving around!   When moving and transitioning between different places it's easier to keep active.

edit 2: I'm calling this a WILD -- Wife Induced Lucid Dream  :smiley:

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## JoannaB

Woohoo! That's so exciting. Congratulations!

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## fogelbise

Awesome awesome FryingMan!! I recommend to make sure you are keeping notes in your dj of exactly what your are doing day and night...sometimes it is easy to forget some of the little things at some point.

I hope you are having #10 right now but even if you aren't your goal is still possible! Excellent perseverance through the tougher nights!

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## FryingMan

Thanks!   Yeah I'm doing not very much at night now, focusing on sleep.   Recall is down a bit.   Last night no recall, first time in 3 months when not sick, weird night, long time getting to sleep, no earplugs because my ears are getting "itchy" from wearing them so much at night and while swimming so I'm going to take a break from them at night.    I woke with dream memory I just didn't feel like journaling, nothing really epic though.     Small bit of alcohol at night, after about 1-1.5 hours of no sleep (since I had to get up in the morning) I took 3 200mg tabs of Valerian, they eventually kicked in and I got to sleep.

The big thing is during the day doing the ADA/RC (location), and continuing to do visualization of childhood neighborhood and telling my self "I'm dreaming".   ADA/RC is definitely a challenge but I'm going to really try to keep it up since I think it may be the real deal for maximum lucids.

Didn't get lucid in the nap yesterday but I had several weird-ish dreams.   Probably shouldn't have slept in since I couldn't fall asleep last night right away.

Kind of tired now so hope that will mean good sleep tonight!

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## fogelbise

> ADA/RC is definitely a challenge but I'm going to really try to keep it up since I think it may be the real deal for maximum lucids.



Do you mean the time it takes or some other aspect?

On the notes recommendation I just meant to try to remember what you are doing day and night but all of the note taking and focus can happen during the day as long as you are still facing sleep challenges.

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## FryingMan

It's a challenge to keep a pearl of awareness constantly focused on noticing and evaluating the RC (in my case, location).   I frequently notice that I have dropped  the ADA "feeling" and re-established it, along with a physical RC whenever this happened, all through the day.    Because in dreams location changes a lot (for me), so I'm also focusing in particular on staying highly aware through transitions (going through doors, whenever anything changes like what street I'm walking down, crossing the street, etc.).       I assume the more I do it the more second nature it will become.

Like just now, several times upon waking this morning I "automatically" restored the ADA/RC location sense, which I think is a good sign  :smiley: .

On other news, nice sleep & dream night last night!  All NDs, a variety of fairly short scenes, but the best thing is: wakings at 3:50, 6:19, 8, 9:43.

Note all the successful return to sleeps after 5 hours, 3 of them!   I think my mental adjustment to not become frustrated at distractions really helped.

It took me a while to return to sleep at the 6:19 I think (or the 3:50 don't recall which), but I kept at it, kept focusing on relaxing.  Eventually I got into a groove where I was quite sleepy at the 8 and 9:43, and I could have kept on sleeping but need to start my day.

Woohoo, that's the kind of sleep/dream night I want, wakings-schedule-wise.   Also, *tons* of HI, just a huge bunch of it.   I tried grabbing it once in a while but it still didn't work  :smiley: .    Also felt some rocking sensations around 8h I think but I will not allow myself to "impromptu WILD", I'm focused on DILD now.   I did quick mantras before falling asleep again, "the next thing I see is a dream," and "I'm dreaming," but not working hard on visualizations and not doing it for very long.

Actually quite a successful to-sleep night as I battled waking life thoughts, there are very traumatic things going on in my extended family (cousins), and I probably will be making a slightly-risky change of job soon, but I was able to let these thoughts drain out of me and focus just on relaxation and breathing "dream gas" which will "put me to sleep in seconds."

Confidence in getting back to sleep will lead to less stress and break the vicious  insomnia cycle.

It's interesting: the longer I sleep, the sleeper I become upon wakings it seems, making it easier to just keep going right BTB.

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## fogelbise

I am sorry to hear about your extended family! Your success is even more amazing with those different things going on. You have a great game plan coupled with quick adjustments as needed putting you are on the fast track. Congrats on a good night! Did you see this thread about a similar constant ADA/RC that focuses on breathing and blinking?... http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2062916

It made me think whether or not I would really want to always be lucid or semi-lucid while dreaming. That specific post in the link put it as the "main downside" to being always lucid...not long ago I thought such thoughts were a joke but I can better imagine sentiment now. Maybe a good question for Hukif to see if he sees it as a downside. Let me know what he says if you decide to ask or if you want me to ask.

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## FryingMan

Last night just OK, I thought it was going to be another gangusters night like 2 nights ago with lots of wakings and dreams but it ended up just a mediocre night, not terrible but not great.   Handful of short dream scenes.   Had to get up before I was ready to at 7 hours, had another cycle in me I think that I had to miss.   Tried a nap 2 hours later and got deeply relaxed and may have hit some NREM but no recall.

I drank some St. John's Wort tea before bed, dutchraptor (and other places on the net) says it gives vivid, kind of bizarre dreams.   Didn't notice it did anything other than perhaps made  dream recall suffer slightly.    So another "magical" supplement bites the dust.  Either that or my supply is not potent any more, or I didn't take enough (two teaspoons of mixed "bits").

Edit: those guys have been LDing for *decades*.   Yeah, maybe after 6,000+ LDs all night long it gets old after ten years.    I will very gladly take that heavy burden upon myself immediately and let you know how it is in 20 years  :smiley: .

In the worst case there's 5-HTP and melatonin and other REM-suppressors to make sure one gets at least some dream-free time during the night.

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## FryingMan

> You have a great game plan coupled with quick adjustments as needed putting you are *on the fast track*



I sure hope so!   In addition to determination and persistence, honestly self-evaluating and figuring out how to fix something that's broken (several bad sleep streaks in my case, on a few occasions) is of key importance in LD training.   And nobody can do it for you since it's all in your head!   Of course nowadays there are lots of resources like this great place that can help a lot.   "Things not working out?   Quitcherbitchin' and find a way to get past it!"    That's what I keep telling myself.

ADA/RC (location) in its 4th day now I think.   Still need to constantly re-establish it, but the good news is I don't go very long without noticing I've let it drop.

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## fogelbise

> "Things not working out? Quitcherbitchin' and find a way to get past it!" That's what I keep telling myself.



 Love it. You don't strike me as someone that needs to remind yourself of that too much but I think we could all use that advice from time to time!

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## FryingMan

Well thanks for the vote of confidence  :smiley: .  I tend to swing back and forth between positives and negatives fairly easily though.

Kind of a mixed bag last night.   About 2.5 hours wakefulness in the middle of the night thanks to stupid argument over snoring (mostly my fault.   Remember, your wife is always right, magic key to happiness).   But then I slept in and had some pretty good and really wacky dreams, unfortunately not up to my highest level of recall detail but definitely amusing / bizarre.   

Probably the best part was being a jedi conquerer of a planet and realizing before addressing the entire planet on TV that I had no pants on  :smiley: .   Either that or trying to take a picture of the evil shark-monster faced killer whale baby that was chasing me through a ship  :smiley: .   

Day (5?) of ADA/RC: location  and had a hard time keeping the location awareness always on.   Will keep at this for a good while since I think it may lead to the holy grail (lucid all night).   And if location doesn't work I'll try something else.    In fact, I'm doing location + especially noting any and all transitions (doors, turning from one street to another, entering and leaving a cross-walk, etc.).

Still also do RCs and RRCs every 20 minutes (using a dreaming RC app for that ), as well as when anything surprising or unusual happens. 

Need to continue vigorously incubating my primary dreamsign as it seems to also now be an auto-lucid (3 for 3 of the last times it came up).

Rehearsing what to do if the visuals go out again: rub hands, look at feet, spin, shake whole body, do a full body pat-down up and down: chest, legs, head, etc. , dive through the ground, etc.   Do SOMETHING with the dream body other than just stand their going "duh....." until I wake up.    And imagine the last place I was (or the place I want to be) the whole time.

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## FryingMan

couple recent djs from this week: 

00:00 Monday 2013-11-25, nice recall! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

00:00 Wednesday 2013-11-27 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## FryingMan

forgot to post the most recent lucid!   just did:

LD #9, tried to light the twilight but instead lost visuals - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## fogelbise

You are doing quite a few different great things. Does it feel like too much? I believe Hukif told me that it took him a long time to get to where he is and to get the constant ADA/RC going. There will likely be ups and downs but if you can maintain some type of practice throughout, it will create an overall uptrend in your abilities as I am sure you have already seen. Doing the RC/RRC every 20 minutes makes it more likely that your awareness will pop up in your dreams but be careful that it doesn't become rote and make sure that it still has meaning each time. I do it randomly averaging one per hour but I also have other triggers (similar to some of yours) during which I do a more simple awareness check.

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## FryingMan

Interesting night last night.   Wakeful at about 4:46, just felt no sleepiness at all after journaling (sucks because I was sleepy before journaling).   Tried my usual relaxation techniques but just had no drowsiness to tap into, so, after 30 minutes, there's only one thing to do, I got up, thinking I'll do a proper WBTB.   Sat in a rocking chair for about 20 minutes, visualizing dreams with my #1 dream sign, reinforcing "I'm dreaming" with each scene.    Move to the kitchen and warm up some milk.   Drink it and sit there a bit more.    After about a total of 40 minutes up, move back to bed, and tap into some drowsiness and fall asleep and dreamt some more, I knew I had an alarm set at 07:30 (about 1 sleep cycle away) and that knowledge usually keeps me up, but this time I slept and dreamt some more!   And pretty wacky ones too, I'll DJ later today or tomorrow since I'm cooking all day today  :smiley: .

Anyway, LD#10: (double digits dream count at last!)  most solid, visually vivid/realistic (had to RC once in the middle to confirm I was still dreaming) LD yet, perhaps the longest, certainly tied for it.   Summoned a blast of fire to zap the endlessly multiplying puffy disgusting juicy freaky spiders filling up my room that got me lucid in the first place, how's that for thanks!?  ::D: 

And now for the firsts  :smiley: 

+ first time full-body pat-down stabilization.  I just read about this on DV and practiced visualizing it a few times.  I really like this idea!   It made me aware of my full dream body and I think really solidified my place in the dream.   I also counted to 5, as I practiced a few times.   Happy that memory made it in.

+ first time seeing dream-body other than hands: looked down to see chest and abdomen, and ... well, you know  :smiley: .   My dream body is in pretty good shape!

+ first time lucidly summon fire blast: it was about 1/2 transparent and didn't light the room on fire but saw it  :smiley: .  Summon lightning bolts didn't work though.

+ first time hand-behind-the-back DC summon (worked!)

It could have gone on I think for quite a bit longer but silly me closed my eyes on kissing my reluctant, summoned DC  and faded to awake.

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## FryingMan

I'm not much of a drinker, so it's been mostly really easy to completely abstain from alcohol these last 3 months.   However, I like a few glasses while cooking and eating Thanksgiving dinner.   So to celebrate reaching a double-digit LD count this morning, I'm going to imbibe this evening.    The nice thing is that I'll be quite the cheap drunk I'm sure, my tolerance must be zero or negative by now  :smiley: .

So while on the one hand I still have 3 LDs to go for my November goal and 3 nights left, I think I'll spend one of those nights, tonight, with my good buddy Scot(ch), he cousin who's quite a wine-er, and various other things sitting in bottles around the kitchen and the house  :smiley: .   I can always double up on the 29th and 30th, right?

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## FryingMan

Well I did drink some, but not all that much, mostly a few snootfulls early while still cooking.   Hardly felt drunk at all.  By bedtime just felt full  :smiley: .   Probably the combination of: getting to bed 2 hrs past normal, some alcohol in the system (I drank a liter of water before bed to flush things out), and a full stomach resulted in a poor recall night: 1 short dream scene, the rest barely recalled fragments.   But I expected as much (hmmm...interesting wording there....you get what you expect?).  Also didn't do much in the way of the normal dream recall/waking intention setting.  

Bedtime: 02:00
wakings: 04:07 (frag), 07:40 (dream) (stayed awake until BTB)
BTB 09:20
wakings: 10:39 (frag), 11:52 (memory of a frag (a fragment-fragment?) but not detail).

I am happy to report that I got myself back to sleep at the 09:20 BTB (twice!) after being awake (but in bed) for most of 2 hours and not feeling all that drowsy.   Kept at it for the practice and I really wanted to dream more.   Not much sleepiness on tap to sink into using my relaxation breathing.     But kept at it, focused entirely on just relaxing.    Started feeling some "WILDish" noise and told myself right away "I am NOT trying to WILD."     Made it to sleep, YAY!

 I really love writing "I got back to sleep!" progress reports.   I'm on a roll now I think with rising confidence supporting more and more successes.   It's important to keep going with the program: daily exercise, eating well (and generally quite a bit less than my normal, which is generally too much), keeping a regular to-bed time.

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## fogelbise

Awesome FryingMan!! Congrats on a great #10!! Memory, stabilization, vividness, length, summoning!!! Nice work!!! And progress getting to sleep is huge to!

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## FryingMan

OK Well, 5/8 for November is not bad, I got the last 4 all in the last two weeks approximately so I finished the month at a 8/month rate at least.    I'm going to up the goal to 12 for December.   Maybe stretching it a bit but maybe not! 

Another way to think of it: I doubled my LD count in November!  Woohoo good way to think of it!   Wouldn't mind that to keep up month to month!

Arrrrrgh!   My #1 dreamsign (being in/around childhood home) dry spell ended last night, epically, taking a girl up to my childhood bedroom (I'm a young guy in a youth group in the dream), I show her the two twin beds in the room, told her when I slept in each one, showed her the shelves where all the board games were, sat down on one of the beds, held hands (it was sweet...)...  so I spent a LOT of time in the room, pointing out details, by all rights should have gotten lucid as I'm still frequently working on visualizing becoming lucid there.    Before last night I was 3/3 for becoming lucid when appearing there.

And I guess the crazy hillbillies cooking up "California Skunk" and bouncing chocolate truffles off the floor into cups on the table (playing "quarters") was somehow not weird enough to question...

Not to mention the water in the ocean disappearing suddenly revealing two whales swimming on the dry ocean bed, and all I can come up with is "wow, that's a really interesting illusion, does everyone see that?"

Yet more sleep success.   I've been able to get back to sleep every single time I've tried recently except once I've reached 10-12 hours after bedtime.   Sometimes it takes a while (10-15 minutes) but the multiple-hour wakefulness is now rare and looks like it's behind me at this point.   Pretty frickin awesome!   Like today: pretty wakeful at 07:20, but got back to sleep for *two* more entire sleep cycles with the best dreams of the night.

Also two nights ago, got back to sleep for late morning sleep cycles and had probably my most awesome and vivid flying dream yet (alllllllllllmost lucid, I realized I was exercising flying control, calling to a guide to help me how to fly vertically, etc.).

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## gab

Nice progress and experiences  ::alien::

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## fogelbise

A good, solid month for you FryingMan! It seems like you might have gone with your gut feeling on setting your next goal. If so, it seems good to me! Definitely aggressive, but you are aggressively aiming to be one of the best, so it fits. Since you are doing well with getting back to sleep, you seem less likely to have to worry about burning out. Go with your gut  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Speaking of going with your gut, my gut has gotten "going" on me now  :Eek: .   I wondered when it was going to catch up with me  :smiley: .   See, I made this awesome batch of homemade hot-sauce (Sriracha is just not available where I live, and the cheap knock-off I found once was a very poor replacement), and I've been enthusiastically consuming it.   I like it hot and I made it hot.   Sometimes when I overdo it on hot sauce I don't sleep well but so far no side effects....until this morning.

Challenging back-to-sleep this morning at about 6 hrs (2 hrs late for bedtime though, sigh), but *I did it*!   I had fallen in to the temptation of daydreaming for probably 20-30 minutes and that tends to activate my mind and wake me up.  I decided I wasn't done for the day so I resolved to sleep again.   I don't know how long it took me, I changed positions at least 2-3 times so it may have been an hour, but I made it, and dreamed some more, 2 periods.  I was very groggy at the first subsequent awakening and recall was light on some pretty detailed dreams I feel, and I got some sketchy but OK recall from the 2nd awakening when I decided to get up.   Felt lots of rocking sensations on the first slow BTB, and some *very* active HI, almost fell into a WILD I think, I'd love to make that entry to Sageous's "What Happened" thread: "my mantra: 'I am not trying to WILD'".   :smiley: .    I also have the beginnings of a cold (sore throat, stuffy nose) and my neck & shoulder are a bit sore....so all in all another sleep success.   I had to constantly remind myself to "relax," running through some self-hypnosis phrases ("on each exhale you're getting more and more relaxed....deeper, .... deeper....more relaxed....more relaxed...").    It was a slow process, hard not to "watch" it happen but every time I caught myself paying attention I switched back to relaxing.

Edit: and though it is not among my current goals, I think this is the way I can approach WILDing eventually:   keep to the "unconscious sleep" side of the balance, and slowly, carefully, each time while falling asleep ("not trying to WILD"), add just a touch more awareness until I find just the right amount that avoids wakefulness but makes it in to the dream aware.

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## FryingMan

Ugh picked up some sort of flu thing, started like a cold but temperature went up.
Managed a small bit of recall from late morning cycles

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## fogelbise

Sorry to hear about your flu or whatever it is! I am thinking I got some kind of cold overnight as well but it doesn't seem as bad (so far!). Congratulations on keeping yourself on the relaxation side of going back to sleep...that is a key whenever you find such challenges and I think that once you learn how to deal with it you should have less and less trouble combatting the issue. It seemed to be a bit of a process for me to but I wasn't smart enough to track what I was doing like you did, so I am not even sure what was the key for me besides making sure I don't wake up too much or too long. Anyway, get well soon!!

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## FryingMan

Doing better health-wise.    Crazy big recall night 3 nights ago, last night barely squeaked out a 15 second dream from sheer stubbornness moving to the couch  :smiley: .   So recall is all over the map these days.    

big recall night - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

low recall night - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## fogelbise

That is* a lot* of recall! Impressive! And glad to hear that you are feeling better!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

I think I feel pretty confident in saying getting back to sleep seems to be fixed now.   I was determined to get back to sleep this morning after getting up for breakfast duty, reading some email, thinking a lot about the details of what may be a new job, etc.   Tried to go back to sleep about an hour and a half later getting up and it was slooow.   I couldn't decide: window open, window closed (fresh air/cooler vs. noise).   Bed felt too hot.    Big trucks going by too noisy, so probably 4 times I got up to open/close the window and adjust the fan.   In the end put earplugs in and opened a 2ndary window.

Once I finally resolved to go to sleep, and at last let my daily life thoughts seep out into a "box" beside the table, and did my body/eyes/mind relaxation and self-hypnosis thing, I slept  :smiley: .    Dreamed too but recall not great for some reason.    And a second back-to-sleep also was for another good solid sleep cycle with many many things going on but only remembered a few scenes upon waking.   Random wild and wacky!  I feel really groggy from these late morning back to bed wakings, like I could keep sleeping all day!   But I force myself up once afternoon hits  :smiley: 

Dry week, it's now 1 week + 2 days since LD #10.   Yes I'm starting to feel a little bit under pressure to produce lucids.   Maybe it's just like paradoxical intent for sleep: you only sleep once you stop trying to sleep and just relax.    I know with LD you must maintain the interest and  the practice, but perhaps the pressure to LD is preventing them?    I 

I had a terrible thought, what if my self-hypnosis relaxation narration is keeping the LDs away?   Hope not.   And my "I'm not trying to WILD" thought that I think once in a while if noise comes along, to convince myself to stay away from watching myself attentively falling asleep and playing with the noise?

Basically I tell myself "With each breath I'm going deeper and farther into relaxation."    "Tension is draining out of my body on every breath", etc.    Before I do this I did do a lot of dreaming intention setting though, the typical "I remember every dream completely", and "I wake up after every dream, remain still, remember and record it", and some MILD based on recent dreams.

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## fogelbise

> I think I feel pretty confident in saying getting back to sleep seems to be fixed now.   I was determined to get back to sleep this morning after getting up for breakfast duty, reading some email, thinking a lot about the details of what may be a new job, etc.   Tried to go back to sleep about an hour and a half later getting up and it was slooow.



Waking life concerns can often wake your mind up too much, kind of shifting it into a different gear, but you did well to get back to sleep despite that! It definitely seems like you are still on the right track to get to sleep more quickly. Have you heard of the supposed health affects of sleeping well over 8 hours a day too often? I still do it, but mostly on the weekends.





> Once I finally resolved to go to sleep, and at last let my daily life thoughts seep out into a "box" beside the table,..



I think this is definitely a key to getting back to sleep when daily life thoughts do creep in. I do something similar jotting down a quick note if it is something I am worried about forgetting or doing a mental "check-off." One of those two things usually lets me release such thoughts very quickly.





> Dry week, it's now 1 week + 2 days since LD #10.   Yes I'm starting to feel a little bit under pressure to produce lucids.   Maybe it's just like paradoxical intent for sleep: you only sleep once you stop trying to sleep and just relax.    I know with LD you must maintain the interest and  the practice, but perhaps the pressure to LD is preventing them?



You definitely want to keep your interest and practice going but perhaps try going towards your evening with the thought "if it happens, it happens." Ups and downs are normal. I was sure that I was going to WILD last night, got the vibrations and thought that I woke up before entering the dream but now I am quite sure that I woke into an FA and probably quickly "fell asleep" from the FA and continued into an ND from there because I have no recollection of laying awake trying to get back to sleep. A little later some waking life fun kind of ended any further attempts, but waking life takes precedence and perhaps it wasn't such a bad thing that you took time in the morning to think about a potential new job.  :smiley: 





> I had a terrible thought, what if my self-hypnosis relaxation narration is keeping the LDs away?   Hope not.   And my "I'm not trying to WILD" thought that I think once in a while if noise comes along, to convince myself to stay away from watching myself attentively falling asleep and playing with the noise?



I doubt it is keeping the LDs away, especially if you were using it when you got all of those LDs last month..? As far as the "not trying to WILD" mindset, it seems like it has helped you to get back to sleep which is crucial for any kind of LDs.

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## FryingMan

> Have you heard of the supposed health affects of sleeping well over 8 hours a day too often? I still do it, but mostly on the weekends.



I think if I took more care to record waking times as opposed just to recording times I'd find that I'm not really sleeping a lot more than 8 hours per night -- I'm trying to make up for long back-to-sleep times.   To-bed times are fairly late recently, and get later as wife comes to bed very late recently, and last night for instance I tried to sneak in a bit of MILD and SSILD to the mix to see how it went and it kept me up for quite a while.      But point taken, thanks!

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## fogelbise

Just thought it could be important to bring up just in case. I had been looking into a different health concern that LukeSid had a while back along with other items that could have possibly been related in another thread...a brief excerpt: "I do feel better seeing that signs point to most of the 'brain cleaning' activity appears to be happening during delta sleep/slow wave brain activity." Thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2065615

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## JoannaB

Uh, you are not going to pull a LukeSid on us and disappear in mid-competition renouncing lucid dreaming, right?

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## fogelbise

Definitely not.  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> Uh, you are not going to pull a LukeSid on us and disappear in mid-competition renouncing lucid dreaming, right?



Hahaha.....ooohhh, no, you're not getting rid of my wild (pun intended) bipolar gushings that easily.    I'm in for the long haul, friends.     I'm WAY too stubborn for that.    I mean, I'm so anal I force myself to go back to sleep for a nap just so I can dream some more even though I don't feel the slightest bit sleepy on mornings where there's a spare bed in the house where it's quiet.  (And I've made it back to sleep every time I've tried!   Just little recall this morning other than the bi-ZARRE thing I "encountered", but I was woken suddenly by the wife rummaging around, that's probably why ).

My dreams are way too weird and amusing to give them up.    Like making "love" to that strange genderless thing last night (what the hell was it!?  I chose it to be female but there were no "parts" anywhere, like a doll) where I think I got lucid while waking up (1 second?  Not enough to count).   Not to mention taking tests in the huge alien sphere, and dang it, that guy behind me took my pencil (I could see the huge pencils on the ground covered in teethmarks).

Long live the mushroom bloodhounds (and their misunderstood beautiful queen!) !

edit: oh were you talking to me?    Heh, well I'll let it stand

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## FryingMan

Started today kind of grumpy because of poor recall (despite nap), and getting way behind on LD goals, approaching 2 weeks after last LD, but finished quiet upbeat with some more things to try based on cruising DV.   I think I need to start trying DEILDs seriously even with NDs, or at least to train myself not to move and roll over after waking up, which probably affects recall as well.

I almost never "fade" wake up from NDs (once definitely, maybe twice, out of hundreds of recalled dreams over 3+ months, and that one definite was looooong and vivid, almost a LD probably), mostly I just find myself in bed and I'm not sure if I've slept at all.    

Maybe the first step is to question *all* rollovers before doing them.

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## JoannaB

I was talking to either/both of you, since LukeSid's name got mentioned and both of you are signed up for competition, glad to hear neither of you intends to decide that lucid dreaming is not worth the risks.  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

> Just little recall this morning other than the bi-ZARRE thing I "encountered", but I was woken suddenly by the wife rummaging around, that's probably why ).



Are you sure that your wife rummaging around wasn't an FA? Half of my wife's interruptions were imagined (via FAs or HHs) but it took a while to figure that out (I started asking her).





> Long live the mushroom bloodhounds (and their misunderstood beautiful queen!) !



Reliving my dreams gives me a lot of inspiration and oh yes your mushroom bloodhounds!  ::D: 





> I think I need to start trying DEILDs seriously even with NDs, or at least to train myself not to move and roll over after waking up, which probably affects recall as well.



The latter definitely and the former definitely if you sense that you woke up in the middle of REM (something jolted you awake for example). Have you seen that alarm technique? It can help you get DEILDs: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html I used it this morning for my last 90-100 minutes of sleeping in a 7 hour sleep night and it got me that LD...I put the phone on vibrate in my pajama pocket and had it set to alarm every 20 minutes with auto snooze. I only remember catching one of the alarms (stayed still and went straight back to sleep with awareness) but I think I may have caught two alarms with a semi-lucid as well. I am only sure enough to count one LD.





> I almost never "fade" wake up from NDs (once definitely, maybe twice, out of hundreds of recalled dreams over 3+ months, and that one definite was looooong and vivid, almost a LD probably), mostly I just find myself in bed and I'm not sure if I've slept at all.



My first thought was how to recommend fixing this, but your recall is often very good. How do you wake from recalled NDs if not fade wake? I think most of mine are and it may just be a matter of recognizing the feeling of first waking up...a mantra could help with this if you want to, but again, maybe don't fix what is not broken in terms of recall methods.





> Maybe the first step is to question *all* rollovers before doing them.



I have been trying to do this with motionless RCs in an attempt to catch more FAs.





> Hey Joanna  I was talking to either/both of you, since LukeSid's name got mentioned and both of you are signed up for competition, glad to hear neither of you intends to decide that lucid dreaming is not worth the risks.



Hey Joanna  :smiley:  I also wondered if you were talking to me after I responded. You might want to try out that technique also in that link above (this post).

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## FryingMan

I recall NDs by asking myself "What was I dreaming about?" and it then just comes to me.    Sometimes it comes to me without having to ask.    This morning for instance I had a "flash" recall that just kept snowballing: more and more scenes came back to me.   This happened in the middle of rolling over and I froze in mid-roll and just let it come in.   There was a lot of it so I didn't voice record in bed for fear of bothering my wife so I got up to the bathroom and spewed out several minutes of voice journal detail.  There was a really interesting one in there, I'll get it written up today.    Short summary: outdoor glacial spherical shell place.

I set intent: "I remember all my dreams completely", and "I wake up after every dream, remain still, and remember it"

I guess I need to add "I notice when I wake up from dreams" or something like that.   Any suggestions?


My wakings from NDs are really odd -- the feeling is almost like I haven't fallen asleep, but there is some nagging discontinuity and I eventually either get the recall coming on its own, or I ask for it and it comes, pretty much always.

I don't think it was a FA although now that you mention it it really had all the signs: I was confused as to what she was doing in that room, she was trying to turn on a fan and having trouble and I was telling her not to bother.   Wow, what a concept, maybe it was!   But  the fan in that room doesn't work I remember...hmm...  But I  didn't go back to sleep after that that I remember?   Or did I?     Mind blowing.......

Edit: wow the alarm approach looks really hopeful.    Hard to know how long to set the initial alarm for but I usually am pretty regular with 90ish minute cycles so maybe 40 minutes from to-bed time and every 15-20 minutes after that.    

Any recommended apps that do that?  I have an iphone.... Heck if I can't find any I'll just write one myself.

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## fogelbise

> I guess I need to add "I notice when I wake up from dreams" or something like that.   Any suggestions?



It depends on your goal since your recall system already seems quite good. If you are looking for DEILDs or you just want to remember even more then you could add that mantra keeping in mind that you are probably a good time off from your next REM cycle unless it is late in the morning...I was leaning more towards DEILDs since your recall is good and for those you need to be in the middle of your REM cycle to be able to go straight into the dream(why that alarm method is potentially helpful) so the mantra might include noticing any interruptions while being careful not to have it trigger too many interruptions via the mantra's subconscious suggestion. For the alarm method, maybe something like "When I feel the phone vibration or alarm I remain still and go right back to sleep" that may be enough to retain consciousness if you are in the middle of the REM cycle.






> My wakings from NDs are really odd -- the feeling is almost like I haven't fallen asleep, but there is some nagging discontinuity and I eventually either get the recall coming on its own, or I ask for it and it comes, pretty much always.



Mine is usually very different, I wonder if you built up some expectation of not being able to sleep from before into these wakings...obviously you were sleeping since you start recalling dreams.





> I don't think it was a FA although now that you mention it it really had all the signs: I was confused as to what she was doing in that room, she was trying to turn on a fan and having trouble and I was telling her not to bother.   Wow, what a concept, maybe it was!   But  the fan in that room doesn't work I remember...hmm...  But I  didn't go back to sleep after that that I remember?   Or did I?     Mind blowing.......



Ask your wife. If it was (and I bet you get them more than you realize) the more of those you catch, the more chances to become lucid!  :smiley: 





> Edit: wow the alarm approach looks really hopeful.    Hard to know how long to set the initial alarm for but I usually am pretty regular with 90ish minute cycles so maybe 40 minutes from to-bed time and every 15-20 minutes after that.



If you always wake up and look at your phone or journal in the late morning that is when I would set it...or after a WBTB. I don't think I would want it going off all night and besides your mind is more apt to recognize what it is later in your sleep cycles. Plus I am trying to avoid disturbing my wife so I have it on vibrate and stick it in my pajama pocket. I would want it in there all night.





> Any recommended apps that do that?  I have an iphone.... Heck if I can't find any I'll just write one myself.



I used alarm clock xtreme that a lot of people on the thread liked.

Did you see this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/sleep-heal...-once-all.html A big part of it is related to light from your phone or similar devices that we spoke about a while back.

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## FryingMan

My wakings are getting fewer per night.  Maybe due to stress and lingering sickness.    Fewer wakings means less recall.   Twice now my BTB naps late morning resulted in zero or not much recall.    Lots going on in life, hopefully when things calm down recall and LDs will return.

Continued sleep success -- when I resolve to sleep I'm able to do it, so far without fail.

I'm starting to incorporate very short bits of SSILD and MILD at nighttime wakings.   May even try (shudder) WILDing or FILDing when I feel very sleepy.

Still going with ADA/RC.  Into the third week.   Some days are better than others.   It's a challenge keeping even just one aspect of ADA.    But I think this is the real key.   Listening to a Naiya interview on youtube, it sounds like what she does is ADA.

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## fogelbise

> My wakings are getting fewer per night.  Maybe due to stress and lingering sickness.    Fewer wakings means less recall.   Twice now my BTB naps late morning resulted in zero or not much recall.    Lots going on in life, hopefully when things calm down recall and LDs will return.
> 
> Continued sleep success -- when I resolve to sleep I'm able to do it, so far without fail.
> 
> I'm starting to incorporate very short bits of SSILD and MILD at nighttime wakings.   May even try (shudder) WILDing or FILDing when I feel very sleepy.
> 
> Still going with ADA/RC.  Into the third week.   Some days are better than others.   It's a challenge keeping even just one aspect of ADA.    But I think this is the real key.   Listening to a Naiya interview on youtube, it sounds like what she does is ADA.



Sorry to hear about the stress and sickness  :Sad:  My recall has been down lately as well and I am using day recall and a written mantra to bring it back up. Naiya has some great stuff...I assume you have seen her DILD and WILD secrets thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...d-secrets.html

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## FryingMan

Thanks for the links, there are so many great articles on DV it's hard to find  them all  :smiley: .
Crappy / irregular sleep night, again, including an argument about coming to bed so late, kind of grumpy/down about my "dry spell", but I did pre-bed visualization of my desired LD scenario and got really upbeat and positive.  

Eventually slept, don't know when (03:00?  04:00?), woke finally at 11:00, nothing at first recall-wise, sensed I had something, you know that "dream on the tip of your tongue" feeling but just can't quite push from vague images into a coherent dream, from stubborness I just kept trying to recall, and I  eventually recalled about 6 scenes  :smiley: .     Most "zombie-like" NDs, but one where I was constructing a pathway in the world with my will and powers, where I had the courage to respond to the great bird even though I was not chosen as hero.
Ah one more scene coming in now, must go try to solidify it.

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## fogelbise

> ...from stubborness I just kept trying to recall, and I  eventually recalled about 6 scenes



Nice perseverance! I was laying in bed this morning trying to DEILD and more and more of my dreams started to come back to me...kind of a passive recall, but I am sure it would have been much harder had I gotten up and started my day.

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## FryingMan

Tough time at bedtime last night, lots of RL things going on keeping my mind active, eventually slept, woke in the night with recall too tired/lazy to record, tried to commit  it to long term memory though,  ended up recording it during a later waking but lost a lot of detail and lost that later waking's recall, got up for the day and a dentist appointment, after getting back had a snack and felt pretty tired, went for a nap, slept quickly, but woken by call from wife, there was a dream there but lost it.   AAAAAAARRRGH!     Geez, do I have to teach myself to recall dreams all over again?   It's been so simple & natural for me so far to recall lots of detail...   Probably just need to ride  out the life changes for a bit.   December's looking like  a total bust.

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## fogelbise

> December's looking like  a total bust.



Make that: "the first 13 days of December this year were mostly a bust, but I got some experience, learned a thing or two and the rest of the month is going to be good/great (insert preference here!)." Life can throw in some pretty serious challenges to your LD goals for sure. For recall, have you tried recalling your day in a day journal? It can help get your memory going and the recall mindset wheels unjammed. You can also do a mantra recall if you let that go...even write out your mantra during the day or evening before sleep if that is easier.





> woke in the night with recall too tired/lazy to record



This can be a balancing act with your sleep trouble at times...but this is what I was doing...getting a little lazy DJing and my recall started slipping.

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## FryingMan

> Make that: "the first 13 days of December this year were mostly a bust, but I got some experience, learned a thing or two and the rest of the month is going to be good/great (insert preference here!)."



Yes of course this is the preferred outlook  :smiley: .    Brought out the nukes last night, 3mg melatonin, because an "adult animated discussion" ensued yet again right at bedtime and extended for at least an hour or more....sigh * 1000.    Did get to sleep though, and had OK but not great recall across 2 wakings.  Applied willpower (competition helped) to get some scenes recorded before going back to sleep.   Man melatonin really packs a punch.   That combined with the dark cold weather and I could sleep all day  but unfortunately had to get up and do stuff.    Will try for an afternoon nap.

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## gab

Melatonin, as low dose as 3mgs may hinder your LDs. Just so you know. I understand sometimes you may need it. Good luck!

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## FryingMan

I successfully got myself to wake up 5 times last night, my usual mantras seem not to help, so I added "I wake up every 2 hours and recall my seams," and it worked.   Lots of short dream scenes, the last waking had a longer continuous scene.  That plus increased motivation from a tough competition lower division group with frequent lucid dreamers.  Not much chance unless I get a whole bunch of lucids really soon.

And WTF, I saw myself in the mirror with 4 hair-curler sponges for lips ("your lips are really chapped" a DC told me, then I checked a mirror and my reaction looking at these curler sponge lips?  "Wow yeah they're really chapped" DOH!).     I had just exited a car (which we parked in the middle of a small office, I'm embarrassed about this and start pushing the car out!!), the car turned into a small child's push car, I'm moving it around, and I'm going on and on about how I really like small cars, how my first car was really small, etc., while moving this car around with my hands.   Man, what does it take?   And this was a late morning dream, where I usually get lucid.    Man this is a wicked tough dry spell.   Going on 3 weeks, need to find a way out.

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## FryingMan

> Melatonin, as low dose as 3mgs may hinder your LDs. Just so you know. I understand sometimes you may need it. Good luck!



I've slept and dreamed with 3mg before when taking at bedtime.   I felt like it was take the melatonin or lie awake tossing and turning all night, which leaves zero chance for LDs....

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## fogelbise

> I successfully got myself to wake up 5 times last night, my usual mantras seem not to help, so I added "I wake up every 2 hours and recall my seams," and it worked.   Lots of short dream scenes, the last waking had a longer continuous scene.  That plus increased motivation from a tough competition lower division group with frequent lucid dreamers.  Not much chance unless I get a whole bunch of lucids really soon.
> 
> And WTF, I saw myself in the mirror with 4 hair-curler sponges for lips ("your lips are really chapped" a DC told me, then I checked a mirror and my reaction looking at these curler sponge lips?  "Wow yeah they're really chapped" DOH!).     I had just exited a car (which we parked in the middle of a small office, I'm embarrassed about this and start pushing the car out!!), the car turned into a small child's push car, I'm moving it around, and I'm going on and on about how I really like small cars, how my first car was really small, etc., while moving this car around with my hands.   Man, what does it take?   And this was a late morning dream, where I usually get lucid.    Man this is a wicked tough dry spell.   Going on 3 weeks, need to find a way out.



Sometimes it seems like our mind has no interest in doing anything but going along with the dream. It will become more consistent as long as you keep up your practices. I think I may have asked you this somewhere before, but do you feel like you are putting too much pressure on yourself during the competition? I don't know what it is, but I have read and possibly experienced myself that there can be such a thing as trying too hard or stressing over LDing if you sense that is happening at all. Edit: I think gab said it best in this specific post ://www.dreamviews.com/dild/147497-spds-workbook.html#post2063918

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## FryingMan

> Sometimes it seems like our mind has no interest in doing anything but going along with the dream. It will become more consistent as long as you keep up your practices. I think I may have asked you this somewhere before, but do you feel like you are putting too much pressure on yourself during the competition? I don't know what it is, but I have read and possibly experienced myself that there can be such a thing as trying too hard or stressing over LDing if you sense that is happening at all. Edit: I think gab said it best in this specific post ://www.dreamviews.com/dild/147497-spds-workbook.html#post2063918



Certainly there's a fine line between motivation, will, and stressing.   But if I hadn't pushed myself last night I would have forgotten a lot of funny/weird/cool dream scenes.    And there's so much more that I *know* I'm forgetting.    I always try to stretch in recall waiting for those little bursts of memory that come in.   And sometimes they come in after I've decided to go back to sleep, if they're significant I'll break out the journal again to note them down.    Usually these little extra tidbits are just more detail on dreams I've already recorded.   

Usually I'm slightly down in the morning without LDs or really interesting dreams, but that doesn't last long.   I really enjoyed transcribing my journal entries today, some of them were REALLY wacky ("egg man"!)

It's tempting to think that I can *make* LDs happen through will alone, like with dream recall, if I can just find the right place/method to direct my will.    Perhaps the will needs to go into places where I'm not yet successful, like a regular sleep schedule, which I have still not achieved.   Or perhaps I need to relax.   But I have been relaxing in the last few weeks mostly working only on sleep at night time, avoiding MILD and SSILD, and perhaps my dry spell is the result of that.   Or perhaps the life stress and the sleep schedule.

Anyway, I know all will be fine again with the next LD, which I know is just around the corner!   The only question is just how long is the street....?

Hopes are still high for a lightbulb going off with ADA/RC and a flood of LDs to follow.   May take months, but I'm quite firm in that conviction, and keeping up the regular LD stuff (reflection/intention, visualisation, and working back in to MILD and SSILD).   If sleep stays really good I may attempt a formal WILD again here and there, too, and maybe try to catch a fast falling asleep time with FILD.

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## FryingMan

Eensy weensy, teensy tiny quick LD last night  :smiley: .    Almost don't feel like counting it since it was just seconds, but hey, lucid is lucid  :smiley: .   May this be the opening of the LD floodgates!

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## Phased

> Eensy weensy, teensy tiny quick LD last night .    Almost don't feel like counting it since it was just seconds, but hey, lucid is lucid .   May this be the opening of the LD floodgates!



It's best to be hopeful! And who knows, your ambitions might just pick you up and take you to there destination. Good to hear you're making progress; so well done!  :Clap: 

Keep at it buddy!

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## fogelbise

> Eensy weensy, teensy tiny quick LD last night .    Almost don't feel like counting it since it was just seconds, but hey, lucid is lucid .   May this be the opening of the LD floodgates!



Awesome FryingMan!! Congrats breaking the dry spell, and I can definitely see it opening the floodgates! Keep up the positive attitude and expectations!  ::D: 

Previous day...




> Perhaps the will needs to go into places where I'm not yet successful, like a regular sleep schedule, which I have still not achieved. Or perhaps I need to relax. But I have been relaxing in the last few weeks mostly working only on sleep at night time, avoiding MILD and SSILD, and perhaps my dry spell is the result of that. Or perhaps the life stress and the sleep schedule.



I would be willing to bet that all of these things played a part.





> Anyway, I know all will be fine again with the next LD, which I know is just around the corner! The only question is just how long is the street....?



Sure enough!  :smiley: 





> Hopes are still high for a lightbulb going off with ADA/RC and a flood of LDs to follow. May take months, *but I'm quite firm in that conviction*, and keeping up the regular LD stuff (reflection/intention, visualisation, and working back in to MILD and SSILD).



All good stuff! Try turning any hopes into expectations (without pressure)...just know that you got this!  ::D:

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## FryingMan

And lucid #12 just now this morning  :smiley: .   DILD, a bit longer than last night, and of course, according to custom, girl-induced (well, maybe).   PTCILD (Pretty-teen-cheerleader induced lucid dream) to be exact.  And open eyed, this time, thank goodness.

And an interesting first:

+ first lucid with barely any memory of the dream leading up to the lucid moment, in an otherwise very low recall night.

While not a first, it was a spontaneous ("BAM") lucidity, which I haven't encountered since my LD #1.   But LD #1 had excellent all night recall before the LD....weird.

I choose to interpret this as ADA/RC starting to kick in!   Woohoo, that would be AWESOME....    Or at the very least, picking up where I left off.

Normally my lucids come at the end of a night filled with dream recall.   This one too was in the later morning hours, but if you count wakings and to-bed time, after only about 5 hours of sleep.

And some more data: I find my recall is WAY better when I go to bed within about 30 minutes of midnight.  Last night was way late (about 2am probably).   The two previous nights I got to bed "on time" and had great recall.   Amazing how that works!   Why is sleep schedule the hardest thing to do?   It seems the simplest compared to all the daytime awareness work.   For single people, easy perhaps, for family folks, can  be way harder.

Some things I did "wrong" last night:

+ exercised too late, too close to bed (wasn't too intense though)
+ ate a fairly large meal right before preferred bedtime (ended up staying up later so as not to be digesting while trying to sleep)
+ got to bed way too late

I woke up after about 2-3 hours from what I remember to be a long and action packed dream, and I couldn't recall ONE TINY DETAIL of it, not one.  It was right there "on the tip of my tongue."   I ended up working on the recall for 30 minutes, trying to make any association with my normal dreaming themes, and absolutely nothing came in.     That was mistake #4, I was really awake and alert by the end of that vigorous recall attempt.   No sleepiness on tap at all.  My usual back-to-sleep tech just didn't work, as  there was just no sleepiness "on tap" to sink into.   I also slept fairly long the two previous nights, maybe I used up my sleepiness.  So I got out of bed.   Sat in the rocking chair for a while, back to bed, still not sleepy, got up again went to kitchen had a small bowl of cereal, as I felt hungry.    The room was too warm as well, inhibiting feeling comfortable in bed and drowsy.    Sitting in the kitchen probably cooled me down.    Back to bed, and yay now there's some drowsiness, as I started slipping into sleep, my beloved wife started snoring  :smiley: .    Thankfully her alarm then went off soon after, it was her turn to get up, she got up to do the breakfast duty, I put earplugs back in to be safe, and I quickly fell asleep and dreamed.

And WTF, I kept my eyes open the whole time, and was looking around the scene (while the PTC was wrapped in my arms and still passionately kissing  :smiley: , and still I woke up after only about 15 seconds of "action."     I was not focused on her face right up against mine.

December goals are starting to look up.......and I have a solid week of vacation leading up to the 31st, so to-bed time should be under control hopefully!

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## gab

Great job keeping up your enthusiasm.

We wouldn't wanna interrupt your records keeping with our posts, so please keep posting your progress, and if you have an DILD related question, please make sure you type it at the beginning of the post, so we are sure to find it. Happy dreams ::alien::

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## fogelbise

Awesome awesome FryingMan!!  ::D:   PTCILD...haha love it! You keep such good records of what is working and what is not. I think beginners should take note. I tried out your "SSILD and then back off towards sleep when feeling too alert" method last night.  :smiley:  Good luck getting your sleep schedule in order...let me know if you have any questions as I sometimes win that battle with the wife when necessary...but I don't have the request very often.

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## FryingMan

Hey that's awesome, from your DJ it looks like it worked out.  I also did 2 quick fast SSILD cycles last night then jetisoned to relaxation.   About 5 times, as I finally developed that "sinking deeper" feeling that signals sleep will be soon, wife who has the sniffles now started snoring, it was too much external stimulus even for my "back to sleep kung fu".  And I got up for morning duty.    Eventually saw the kids off, went to nap in one of their beds, had 2 back to sleeps, but alas no recall, probably just too tired.  Bedtime 01:30, 1.5 hours behind schedule.   When will I learn?   Midnight = great night, later = just OK.

But had some amusing, if not long, fragments, so the night was not a loss.    At one point a group of girls standing around, kind of laughing at me, I had a squeeze bottle in my hands (I think it had mayo in it), one girl came up and said "Oh, is that ONIONS!?" put her mouth on the squeeze bottle and I obliged by squeezing the bottle into her mouth.  It was a funny moment.   They asked something in English and laughed when I replied in a foreign language.  
Also really weird fruit, stringy and inedible, everyone was having trouble eating it.   I saw a "sexy" large cutting board made from beautiful wooden strips (in RL I want a cutting board of good size, the ones we have are all too small), and said "now THAT's a cutting board, with mine all the carrot slices fall to the floor).

Will think of an abbreviation for the modified SSILD, maybe SFSSILD, SF = sleep friendly.  Or SFLDT for sleep-friendly-lucid-dreaming-technique

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## FryingMan

Wow.....a night filled with the wackiest, most random, hilarious dreams ever.    I barely can remember anything from them, just a bunch of little fragments, but I know they were long and involved.    How can anyone remember all that?   It's probably impossible.  I'm happy to come away with the fragments I did and the "tip of the tongue" feeling that there was so much more.   

 Reading sivason's epic WILD sex dream obviously gave me some "sexy" day residue, and ended up (me just watching) in a  steamy encounter between Morgan Freeman and a really sexy (from the waist up at least) she-male.    Hey not my thing but who can explain the SC's choices?

Back-to-bed nap resulted in a lot of them.   3 back to sleeps after 1.5 hours of morning breakfast duty, including needing to be a human alarm clock for younger son at first nap waking, woohoo!  ( I needed to wake him up at 10am, and I woke up and *9:59* just before my alarm.   Internal alarm clock FTW!).

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## fogelbise

LOL!

I need to go back and read some of Sivason's stuff and that dream in particular...some great tips in there! I had fragments only as well last night (7). I think my fragmentation was because I was primarily focused on sleep again...I have an event today and wanted to be well rested.

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## FryingMan

You know, I've been basically psyched all day almost as much as the afterglow of a lucid dream,  just because I knew that during the sleep at least, it was a night full of wild weird interesting stuff.   I remembered just little slices of it here and there, and a couple of longer sequences, enough to keep the "feeling" of the larger unremembered parts there floating in the background, even if just beyond the reach of recall.

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## fogelbise

I know what you mean. Our normal dreams can provide a boost to our day and motivation to continue LD practices!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Woot, LD #13  ::banana:: , got lucid from scary crow-girl dream.   It took a few "I'm dreaming"'s to lose the fear feeling and believe I was lucid.
Once fully lucid, turned around, started to shout "Line 'em..." didn't get to "up", (this is my  behind the back group summons wording), stopped myself, said, "Pickman, .... my teammate's name is ... Pickman" getting ready for some  competition points.

Well, good old dreaming me starting in right away again on "Line 'em ...." and then I was awake in bed, and finished the sentence, "oh, shit."

 :smiley: 

Big dreaming night again, despite RL obstacles, this time I held on to a lot more detail than last night.   It'll probably take me an hour to transcribe, I'm a few days behind, down to business!

edit: this matches my previous weekly high of 3/week.   Still need to accomplish firsts for 4/week and 2/night  :smiley: .    Feeling close, general level of expectation and positive feelings running pretty high now.

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## FryingMan

Meh, bad night, 1 measly dream, started OK, 1 dream @ ~3-4 hours is pretty good,  but then no back to sleep.  Had to work a bit for that 1 dream which may have burned the drowsiness.  For some reason no drowsiness at all for an hour, finally found some, but then endless fidgeting from bed partner kept jolting me awake whenever I got close.    Slept from exhaustion eventually but then had to get up early.   

Gotta pay the piper for the good nights I guess.

edit: as for firsts (I like discovering these  :smiley: , I got 3 LDs so far in the competition this time.   I'm thinking there will be at least one more (maybe several!) before things wind up!

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## fogelbise

> I'm thinking there will be at least one more (maybe several!) before things wind up!



Expectation and intent can be powerful. I am surprised how lazily I go to bed sometimes, later realizing I didn't go to bed with LDing on my mind.

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## FryingMan

Got some nice recall around the 6 hour mark, and a short lucid to top of the night after a BTB.    Not very satisfying, just becoming lucid in some room then waking up.    Also no point scoring oppportunities  :Sad: , really wanted to get a bunch of competition points.    But "lucid is lucid!"

It was actually pretty interesting in that I said to myself, "Hey, I'm getting that lucid feeling in real life again, .....whoa, I'm dreaming!"
I just walked "wide-eyed" into the room a few more steps savoring the lucid feeling, and being amazed that I was actually dreaming to start with, and then woke in bed.

(A few days ago I had a waking life lucid moment where everything seemed so bright, it felt a bit like becoming lucid while being awake.)

But that does make a new first!

+ first time 4 LDs in one week
(edit: actually counting more closely, it's 4 in 8 days, good enough for government work!)

It also helps the monthly goal accomplishment to look not so bad!

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## fogelbise

Hopefully you got successful wbtb +3 and remembered to count becoming lucid +5, so better than most recall points...and being on top of a good recall night with points there as well. I have also had some of those waking life lucid-like moments! Wonderful! It is like you see more than you previously were able to.

Congrats FryingMan on 4 LDs in a week!! I really like the idea of counting firsts, builds motivation and momentum!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Well after a full day of walking around with the "I'm a master lucid dreamer" act and intensely setting expectation and intent for LDs last night I had a rather "meh" night.   No even "almost" lucid moments, a zombie "go with the flow" dreaming night.  Had to get up earlier than usual for a planned event today, so lost a late morning sleep cycle.

Good news is that I didn't give up on recall.   In the last sleeping period, interrupted with people getting up and doing things in the house, then my wife returning to bed, at first I thought I wouldn't get back to sleep in time to dream some more, but I did... and then when the alarm went off, I wasn't sure if I had slept or not or dreamt or not.  "Might as well try to recall" I said half-heartedly.....and I asked the usual "What was I dreaming about?..." ...and some recall came in (it's amazing how it responds to that question!)!     Some interesting moments, and new types of scenes.

Including the poem, "purple bees, kissing in trees."   and the up-close visual of purple fly-lke insects with large insect-eye-looking triangular heads touching their weird fly mouth appendages together.   And a flying rainbow minnow-thing with bright colors.

edit: I'm starting to wonder if I'm exercising *too* much.   I'm swimming basically every day.  Not every day is intense, but last night was (1km in about 27 minutes), I was very tired by the end of that.

I may try reducing the intensity a bit to see if I need less deep sleep.  On the other hand I'm dropping weight consistently and feel really good so I intend to keep it up.    

LDing is great for getting in shape!   I don't eat sweets (or much of anything) close to bed, just milk and fruit, maybe some cheese & crackers.   I'm careful about eating too much in the evening as well.

edit: just transcribed last night's dreams.   There's more there than I remembered, actually a fairly normal night:5 dreams, 6 fragments, so not really a "meh" night after all.  I know there's detail I forgot in between waking and recording.   No almost-lucid moments, missed my childhood home again.   I've got to keep up the mantra to notice it as I visit it several times per week.

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## fogelbise

> edit: just transcribed last night's dreams.   There's more there than I remembered, actually a fairly normal night:5 dreams, 6 fragments, so not really a "meh" night after all.  I know there's detail I forgot in between waking and recording.   No almost-lucid moments, missed my childhood home again.   I've got to keep up the mantra to notice it as I visit it several times per week.



It sounds like a good recall night to me. For the childhood home have you "practiced" seeing it during the day and "realizing your dreaming?" Maybe there is a tweak you can use to make it more likely to trigger lucidity. Perhaps mixing in some prospective memory as well.

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## FryingMan

Interesting night.   Decided at 5hrs to do serious MILD and SSILD despite the wakefulness risk, and was in fact up for several hours (I got close to getting back to sleep a number of times, but every time there was some external disturbance prodding my awareness just enough to prevent sleep).   Got up a couple of times, eventually went to the kitchen, got a snack, ate I think a little too much including too much sugar (sweetened granola and a few shortbread cookies), my stomach was noticeably churning a bit with elevated heart-rate upon returning to bed.  (Should just stick to milk and perhaps a plain cracker).   After that also took one 200mg tab Valerian, which eventually helped I think.    Just couldn't get comfortable on either side, too hot/sore hips/shoulders, can't really sleep on back unless I'm alone since I snore that way, so I went for the final option, the stomach.    I can sleep on the stomach but it's not my preferred position, usually only in late morning, and not always.   This time  I did!    And I got....
 ::banana::  LD #15  ::banana:: 

The dream location had perfect conditions for a competition point-fest: deserted, quiet, well-lit intersecting office corridors (white walls with blue office-style carpet): lots of close-by corners for summoning!  I was actually *happy* to get a "boring" location!  Alas, ARGH!   Woke up right after finishing stabilisation and starting my behind the back summon of my teammate.   

 "OK, Pickman, let's get down to business!" stuck my hand behind my back ....and faded to awake in bed.   45-seconds to 1 minute maybe.

No memory prior to a few seconds before becoming lucid, I may have got lucid right at the start of the dream, which is perhaps why the dream felt fairly unstable.   Hand rub, looked at hands while rubbing, felt the warmth, then my practiced stabilization kata.   I may need to make it longer or emphasize looking around a bit more, right now the emphasis is on seeing and stimulating sensation in my dream body, which worked great again.

I was really anticipating wracking up those points!!!

edit: oh, and there was a *wicked*-cool ND powered-flying fragment (not just gliding, but superman-style), and I almost forgot it!   Only came in at the final waking when I decided to review recall because I didn't have any for that final sleep cycle.    In it I was imagining (again, I've got to  figure out how to catch these imaginings!) flying down some hills to the city below, this time I saw the landscape zooming by beneath me, and said something like "Hell yeah!" or "Whoa!"   I was again astounded at my ability to "imagine" this vividly!

It's really a tragedy how much awesome stuff we forget every night...

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## fogelbise

Awesome! I feel that you are close to a nice long LD!

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## FryingMan

Heh that would be great!    I missed a juicy FA just now (if it's still a FA if you wake up but not in your wordly bedroom), and had a tiny little lucid ("lucid is lucid!") while waking.   But very interesting: after waking from that lucid, sort of a new first, I fell back asleep and dreamed, (but alas, non-lucidly), to the same place in the dream world where I got lucid (well in a room to the side) before!   That was the first time I can recall waking up and going back to sleep to (sort of) continue the dream!

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## fogelbise

Nice! Again, I like the way you are tracking your firsts and feel it is a good way to build momentum. And congrats on beating last months lucid total and we still have a few nights left in the month!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> Nice! Again, I like the way you are tracking your firsts and feel it is a good way to build momentum. And congrats on beating last months lucid total and we still have a few nights left in the month!



Thanks!  Yes and the LDs this month didn't start until the 17th, so all things considered, my LD pace is more or less matching my goal.   Approx 1 LD per 2 days, which is a great improvement.    ADA/RC going well, I think LD #15 was perhaps a subconscious location-based lucid.

I knew with my wacky sleep schedule I'd have to "pay the piper" again, and did last night.   Just a few fragments and a lot of awake time.   With a new job starting up in a few days it's hard to keep a quiet mind, and staying in bed for 12 hours a couple of days in a row even if a lot of it is awake doesn't help with getting back to sleep at the 6hr waking.   And to-bed time all over the map as always, sigh.

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## fogelbise

I hear you on wacky sleep schedules lately. I have had a number of days off and sleeping too much! Sleeping in a day or two on the weekends is one thing on an otherwise consistent sleep schedule but it has also affected my daytime practices which I tend to take a breather from on weekends (and apparently this carried over to multiple days off - but it sounds like you have been keeping up your ADA/RC which is great and will start paying larger dividends.  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> but it sounds like you have been keeping up your ADA/RC which is great and will start paying larger dividends.



Yes, some days better than others.   I frequently catch myself having dropped it.   It's hard to maintain when I'm interacting with people and "doing life stuff" other than just walking around by myself or exercising.     I think 6 lucids in 13 days is a pretty good sign that it's kicking in, I hope!   I'm certainly keeping LDing on my mind just about all day, every day.    And perhaps even the "I'm a master lucid dreamer" act is also working.   

Valerian to the rescue last night.  Should have used a touch of melatonin at bed-time too, maybe, but concerned about REM suppression and potential suppression of LDs, also I have tiny 3mg tabs and they're really hard to accurately cut for a smaller dose, will be buying 1mg tabs soon for smaller < 1 mg doses.   Awake from 5h-7h or so again, just couldn't find the mental tension in order to release it.  As you said, I think I made the mistake of trying too hard: "trying to sleep".   I tried to cultivate a "que sera sera" attitude later and I fell asleep, amazing how that works  :smiley: .    

Finished the comp with some recall, yay, no lucids though, but had a good amount, I beat my previous comp score (even at the 2week normal ending time), so I'm quite happy  :smiley: .

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## FryingMan

Happy New Year everyone!

I'll report in the morning (afternoon?) what champagne chased with some scotch will do to the dreaming tonight.

edit: yes, afternoon  :smiley: .   And guess what: it turned out to be a LD power cocktail!   Seriously, I didn't drink all that much, maybe 1/2 bottle champagne, a but less perhaps, and about 1/8 shot of scotch.   And I didn't go to bed for several hours after drinking. 

Woohoo, though, had my first DEILD!   Short, too short, but it was fated to be this way since my wife was getting up out of bed and moving around the room, and I had my earplugs out at that point.

It was soooo cool.    The details are a bit hazy, but I was recalling some dreams from the night, lightly thinking about them, glad that I had any recall at all, and decided to just try to drift off quietly and DEILD, very lightly thinking of one of the dreams.

The next thing I knew I was looking at some indoor scene in a hallway in a house.   It was very bright, the lighting was very good.    I thought wow, this is a really solid image, kind of puzzled at where it came from.   I just looked for about 10-15 seconds.   I stepped in to the scene and it was a dream!  I got a lucid rush, turned up a staircase to my left, bounded up the stairs, exclaiming, "YES!  It worked!" reached the landing at the top of the stairs, another hallway, turned right, a bathroom was right there, I walked into it and started to shut the door behind me, and faded to awake in bed.

Now *that*'s the way to start the New Year, with a LD on New Year's Day!

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## fogelbise

> Now *that*'s the way to start the New Year, with a LD on New Year's Day!



I am so happy for you! And congratulations on your top finish in the competition!! You are on a roll!! To a great upcoming year in the dream world and the "regular" one!

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## FryingMan

> I am so happy for you! And congratulations on your top finish in the competition!! You are on a roll!! To a great upcoming year in the dream world and the "regular" one!



Thanks!    Yeah I'm sort of like the tortoise in the competitions, not really any spectacularly high scoring dreams but steady good recall.   A bunch of lucids this time which really helped.  I'm going to work hard this month and do my best to give the upper div folks a run for their money in Feb.   I have a long business trip in January so we'll see how that goes with dreaming --  about 3 weeks of solo sleeping so  I'm anticipating some awesome dreaming!

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## fogelbise

Yes I think you will give the upper division a run for their (our) money! It should be another fun one!

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## FryingMan

3-4 days of no exercise, sitting at home, and eating cakes & candies and staying up super late resulted in a very rare no recall night for me last night.   Just got back from a swim and am staying off all processed yucky stuff now, dedicated to setting new, sane slesep schedule, so back to dreamland tonight, woohoo!

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## FryingMan

Bleh another no recall night.    That's a first I don't care ever to repeat (2 no recalls in a row).   Woke somewhere between 5-6 hours (the evil 5-6 hour waking, my nemesis), just couldn't make it back in.   Very close several times, something's pulling me back up.

Tried for a nap later on, felt very tired, lots of HI lights as soon as my head hit the pillow, like fireworks going off in my head, I took that to mean I was very sleepy, I was plummeting towards sleep, but again halted and couldn't make it over the edge.

I very nearly WILDed, though not intentionally, got the noise and ragged breathing, but pulled back from the edge.

I think my excitement at my first DEILD has me overly sensitive again to dreamlets and the approaching transition, when I realize I see the images I get too alert.  Man, being able to creep over that fence into the dream consistently would be awesome....soon, soon....

Bleh.

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## fogelbise

> I think my excitement at my first DEILD has me overly sensitive again to dreamlets and the approaching transition, when I realize I see the images I get too alert. Man, being able to creep over that fence into the dream consistently would be awesome....soon, soon....



This "sensitivity" could also work in your favor but you do of course have to make it over that edge to sleep. Do you remember any sensations right before or during your DEILD scene that you stepped into?

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## FryingMan

> This "sensitivity" could also work in your favor but you do of course have to make it over that edge to sleep. Do you remember any sensations right before or during your DEILD scene that you stepped into?



No, it was 1) drift off, ...discontinuity... 2) oh hey look at that (with awareness) and step into dream.   I was not "looking out for it" which is why I believe it succeeded, as my mental transition watchdog was inactive long enough for the dream to form.

Yes I actually believe it eventually will work in my favor, with training to remain calm and passive.   Hukif actually had a proposed technique called T(transition)ILD or something like that which was based on awareness of the process of falling asleep.   Maybe I'll become a TILD master  :smiley: .

Well yay, defeated the wakefulness and no-recall monster last night.  Set strong intention to remember dreams and wake up after every dream at bedtime and before returning to sleep.  I read something a few days ago about Sageous not recommending this as it may work too well and wake you up too much, and so I backed off on it, but I have not been waking up as much as I used to in the beginning of my practice and i don't like that, so I restarted it again last night.   It's amazing how fast the brain resorts to old behavior if you stop your intention setting!    I get back to sleep just fine at all times before and after the 5-6 hour period if I don't do SSILD-like techs.

Got to sleep at bed-time in reasonable (but still not as fast as desired) time, previous nights took longer.   And again the 5-6 hour waking alertness, got up for a quick kitchen trip for a glass of milk, held & petted the cat for a while (relaxing), then returned to bed but tossed & turned for a while.   Almost gave up and got up for the day but resolved that I must not.   My quote for motivation is from the video posted at the start of the last competition: "You've got to want it like you want to breathe".   I've been using  this a lot recently for maintaining  ADA/RC.    So despite my alertness, really worked at my sleep relaxation technique (paradoxically: I had to work at it with discipline, but not "try hard to sleep", it's not an easy balance) and I slowly drifted off, and slept!   And dreamed several more times.   I had to hold myself for long periods of time at "deeper" relaxation levels despite a lot of external disturbance, holding no tension, and with a quiet calm mind.    Every noise, every bed-partner movement (and there were alot for a while), I told myself, "these sounds and these sensations make me more and more relaxed."   Woohoo another "sleep kung fu" victory.   Couldn't wait to jump on DV and share the success.

Set strong intention to remember and to wake after dreams, and woke at 2.5, 4, 5.5, 10, 12 (about 2 or more hours of awake time after 5.5).

Interestingly, I'm finding that my late morning (like 10+ hours after bedtime) dreams do not necessarily exhibit increasingly larger amounts of awareness.   I had my highest levels of awareness (no lucids though) last night at the 5th hour waking: (in the dream I noticed my location and objects within the dream, my ADA/RC targets, didn't get lucid though).  At the time when I got up (12h), I still thought it was the earlier waking (10h), but then I had dream recall that I didn't remember from the earlier waking, and realized I must have slept again, and sure enough, I checked the clock and it was 2 hours later.   The recall was pretty weak in fact from the final waking.

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## fogelbise

> No, it was 1) drift off, ...discontinuity... 2) oh hey look at that (with awareness) and step into dream.   I was not "looking out for it" which is why I believe it succeeded, as my mental transition watchdog was inactive long enough for the dream to form.



I wonder if there is a way to use this consistently.





> Yes I actually believe it eventually will work in my favor, with training to remain calm and passive.   Hukif actually had a proposed technique called T(transition)ILD or something like that which was based on awareness of the process of falling asleep.   Maybe I'll become a TILD master .



I am no master(yet!), but this sounds like one of the things I have been working on and having some success with for WILDs. I thought I had come to the idea on my own, but it very well could have been a seed Hukif planted or a specific thing he told me that didn't register at the time. Hmmm...maybe it is kind of like how some weird but sensible ideas pop into our minds in those in stages between wake and sleep - whether in or out.





> Well yay, defeated the wakefulness and no-recall monster last night.  Set strong intention to remember dreams and wake up after every dream at bedtime and before returning to sleep.  I read something a few days ago about Sageous not recommending this as it may work too well and wake you up too much, and so I backed off on it, but I have not been waking up as much as I used to in the beginning of my practice and i don't like that, so I restarted it again last night.



Please let me know if your remember where you saw it so I can read more from Sageous on this. woblybil also mentioned wishing he didn't automatically wake up after every dream.





> It's amazing how fast the brain resorts to old behavior if you stop your intention setting!



So true!





> I get back to sleep just fine at all times before and after the 5-6 hour period if I don't do SSILD-like techs.



They may not be for you...How many times has SSILD or SSILD-like techs helped you LD?





> Every noise, every bed-partner movement (and there were alot for a while), I told myself, "these sounds and these sensations make me more and more relaxed."   Woohoo another "sleep kung fu" victory.   Couldn't wait to jump on DV and share the success.



Nice! 





> Interestingly, I'm finding that my late morning (like 10+ hours after bedtime) dreams do not necessarily exhibit increasingly larger amounts of awareness.



Me too. Sometimes I have good awareness later in the morning but usually not beyond 8 hours of sleep.

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## FryingMan

> They may not be for you...How many times has SSILD or SSILD-like techs helped you LD?



Well, if you look at my DJ, actually some LDs followed nighttime-practice.   It's hard to know, though, is it the practice, or simply the intention and expectation, the desire for the LD, that results in lucidity?

I do hope eventually to do away with all wakings ala Hukif: every dream a DILD from the beginning, or DEILD.    That's the goal, at least....

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## FryingMan

Super late night, due to "none of your business" stuff.   Some strange-ish day residue dreams.      Woke up at 7h, snack, felt tired while on computer, tried to nap, didn't make it back to sleep, but it's too late anyway.    

Some near-WILDs during nap attempt while dozing?   Periods of images that may have been dreams beginning, but that vanish if I give them too much attention.    Black man and kid sitting down, I don't know them...  My old colleague and racquetball buddy, I recognize him immediately, he's standing and smiling/laughing....a mural of pictures of my family on the wall in my room that doesn't actually exist...   These images felt very similar to the successful DEILD of Jan 1st....what's the difference I wonder, how did I make it into that dream but not these?   Paying them less attention while they solidify?       Answer this and I'll be WILDing away....

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## fogelbise

> These images felt very similar to the successful DEILD of Jan 1st....what's the difference I wonder, how did I make it into that dream but not these?   Paying them less attention while they solidify?       Answer this and I'll be WILDing away....



My guess would be the excitement of the possibility that you were about to enter the dream. My best chance of success is when I have almost no awareness left, allowing me to drift off towards sleep coupled with my mantra to notice the vibrations which ramps the awareness back up at the last minute/at the transition. Others like gab are able to interact with the advanced HI's "I am there" style. At the moment, I can use sensations better than images. Such as "this feels like" or "this sounds like" and that nudges me into a dream related to the sensation.

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## FryingMan

^^ Yes I think this makes sense.   I was "almost out"  I think on the DEILD, a tad closer to sleep, and just was in the perfect place with just enough awareness to "perk up" in time to enter the dream with some awareness, but after it had a chance to solidify.

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## FryingMan

Finally, some decent recall and a coherent longer dream with multiple scenes.   Just woke from a long afternoon nap, was super tired after only 4 hours of sleep at night, it was the "asleep before your head hits the pillow" level of tired.   I have very good memory (basically waking from the dream) of multiple scenes scenarios, visual and plot details.

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## fogelbise

I will PM you.  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Well, the votes are in, and jet-lag SUCKS for dreaming.   I haven't had decent dream recall in a week or more.   Just a fragment here and there.

Until this morning, (after an admin from work called me for a minor piece of information, forgetting that I was on a business trip in a time zone 12 hours behind, at 3:30am, GRRRRR!, 3 hours later back to bed), and dreamed that both my laptop AND ipad had been stolen, and I was running through the streets desperately trying to find a police person (and they were somehow always beyond reach no matter how much I ran), hysterically sobbing and crying and threatening to punch people out if they touched me.  

That was the ONE TIME in the last 5 months that I've been relieved to wake up from a dream!

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## FryingMan

The room I'm staying in doesn't seem to have continuous fan available, so once the target temperature is reached, the fan shuts off and the room gets really stuffy, and I wake up.   More wakings means a bit more recall, but I usually jump out of bed to try to adjust the thermostat and this means sub-optimal recall.    My sense of dreaming at least is on the rise again.   I was really tired at 10pm (was falling asleep watching TV), got to bed by 10:30pm, and started waking around 00:00 from dreams, perhaps REM rebound since I only got about 3-4 hours of sleep the previous night.     I woke probably 5-6 times until about the 7-8 hour mark where I couldn't get back to sleep.

 I know I had a long dream with lots of activity, only a few fragments clearly recalled though.    

 A weird partially DO space war game where my controls didn't work right transformed into a planet-side setting, and I recalled an earlier flying dream where I was in my childhood neighborhood teaching someone to fly using the technique I've practiced in waking life (that if you get stalled there is a tiny point source of infinite energy in your head that you can use to thrust yourself in whatever direction you want at whatever speed).    I encountered a tangle of power lines but burst through them confidently.

I'm going to need to reinvent my dreaming practice.   My new job is very challenging and will require high levels of concentration and mental exertion.   I'll have to figure out how to keep ADA/RC going.   I'll probably turn back on my 20-minute RC phone alarm and turn the walk to the water cooler into an RC-fest.

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## fogelbise

It's good to see that you are getting back to dream recall and making a plan to fit LD practices into your new surroundings. Sageous suggested somewhere to use once an hour (but random) in case that makes it easier to fit in with your new job and all.

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## FryingMan

Yay, a dreamful night again, at last.    About 3 major wakings with lots of little wakings in the later morning, kind of dozing, but each time with a snippet of recall.      At one waking I was recalling and slipping back into sleep (as happens sometimes), and I dreamed / imagined hitting the record button on my voice recorder, and I realized this was not reality and woke myself up to actually record  :smiley: .   Probably was imagination rather than a dream, but still, kind of amusing  :smiley: .    Good, solid imagery and some sense of self experienced in the recall in several cases.   That's usually a good sign that some lucids may be around the corner.   Also increased RC practice throughout the day.    I'll get my new rhythm settled here.     We'll see about the next competition, though, since I'll be freshly jet-lagged for it again  :Sad: .

Oh and my order of Galantamind arrived, so now the temptation begins....why not...?    I've got Galantamind, Alpha-GPC, and melatonin now.    I'll wait until my dreaming schedule solidifies a bit and perhaps next Friday night give the G a first try.

edit: Hmm thinking again about the fake-recording, I may have missed a DEILD there.    I've got to learn to leverage those middle-of-the-night drifting off moments into LDs!

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## fogelbise

> edit: Hmm thinking again about the fake-recording, I may have missed a DEILD there. I've got to learn to leverage those middle-of-the-night drifting off moments into LDs!



One good way to incorporate DEILD attempts into actual or assumed awakenings would be a multi-step approach that could result in some lost recall but has a safety net to minimize lost recall. Basically upon waking up: 1. keep still and quickly recall the scene you exited from; 2. quickly attempt to DEILD and if nothing happens within a minute; 3. perform a motionless reality check (you may be dreaming, if so you may be lucid in the void); 4. If awake, record your dreams (you should at least recall the scene you exited from which may help you to recall the rest...if not, this is the downside to this approach, but I think the upside is worth it).

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## FryingMan

> One good way to incorporate DEILD attempts into actual or assumed awakenings would be a multi-step approach that could result in some lost recall but has a safety net to minimize lost recall. Basically upon waking up: 1. keep still and quickly recall the scene you exited from; 2. quickly attempt to DEILD and if nothing happens within a minute; 3. perform a motionless reality check (you may be dreaming, if so you may be lucid in the void); 4. If awake, record your dreams (you should at least recall the scene you exited from which may help you to recall the rest...if not, this is the downside to this approach, but I think the upside is worth it).



This is really clever, thanks!.    I think the successful LDers all use this multi-phase approach to maximize LDing opportunities.  I clearly need to do something like this.    Also BrandonBoss mentioned always trying to fall asleep with awareness, just erring on the side of sleeping to make sure you sleep and can DILD if the WILD doesn't work out.     His micro-WBTB, where you always try to bring yourself right to the edge   of being able to fall asleep or not fall asleep (again staying on the side of falling asleep so you do in fact sleep) is a major factor in his success.    I think this highly tuned WBTB approach makes the most sense, the "stay awake X minutes" never made sense to me -- it's all about getting the awareness up as much as you can but still be able to sleep.

p.s. 2 to go!   100 for you in your first year anniversary, you'll do it!

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## fogelbise

Thank you for the 100/DV anniversary idea! You have a great mindset with the goal setting and the idea of the "first this, first that." That technique of BBs really makes sense. I see that he finished his thread. I will make some time tomorrow to read through it...haven't had a chance to yet.

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## FryingMan

You're welcome!   Yeah, "firsts" are fun!

Finally, a decent dreaming night and a short lucid.   Lucid was in darkness, boo  :Sad: , but lucid is lucid and hopefully signals a return to regular lucidity.   Day practice and nighttime intention running pretty high recently.    Incubation resulted in close to what I asked for, but as usual mixed up slightly.     After the lucid, some bizarre late morning non-lucids that should have resulted in lucidity, dangit.  But at least my memory of them is pretty good.

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## fogelbise

Keep it up...I wouldn't be surprised if you have a good streak right around the corner!

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## FryingMan

Well, dangit, night #2 of the galantamine experiment (this time adding alpha-gpc and about 0.3mg melatonin) just resulted in more sleeplessness, an unremarkable short NLD about standing in a racquetball court (I even noticed there was something wrong with the court, it was not the right shape, not deep enough, missed it, doh!), and a bit of a morning headache.    Expensive experiment.    I'll hang on to the stuff but I'm not motivated to try it again soon.   Popping pills is not my thing.

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## FryingMan

How could I have missed it!?

+ First (LD 2 nights ago) LD away from home!

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## fogelbise

> How could I have missed it!?
> 
> + First (LD 2 nights ago) LD away from home!



That's the spirit. And since you got that one without the supplement, you know you can do it without...18 times mind you!  :smiley:  It sounds like you suspect that the supplements had something to do with your headache?

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## FryingMan

> It sounds like you suspect that the supplements had something to do with your headache?



Yes, definitely.   I get headaches very rarely.   Interesting that I forgot that GPC has a 3-hour delay to max blood saturation, so the headachey feeling came about right then -- 8am-ish, and I took it at 5am-ish.    Yeah I know I can get lucid without the pills.    I was just hoping for some sort of hour-long-more-vivid-than-vivid-stability-no-matter-what kind of super dream, as advertised in the Yuschak book, and being able to pull those off once in a while.   Could be the timing, could be the dosage.       I'll get there the natural way, no doubt.   I may experiment here and there but I'm definitely leery of creating long-term desensitization.   Yuschak recommends no more than once every 4 days for galantamine, unless you're using pircetam, but using drugs to get "up" and then using more drugs to get "down" right away seems rather crazy.   

 Note that Yuschak mentioned that before supplements he got lucid "maybe two dozen times over several years of trying," at only low- to medium-levels of lucidity.   Clearly not DV competition "upper division" material  :smiley: .   (Apologies to Yuschak if he's reading ... but it does take dedication and perseverance!).   

So yeah, I'm happy with where I am and how things are going.  Just need to kick it up back to high gear again.

I was tired last night (having lost 3 hours the previous night) and just basically went back to sleep right away at every waking not even trying to recall, but with a (weak perhaps) intention to DEILD each time.

Definitely want to establish a good "combo" attack: at each waking, try DEILD, if don't make it back in, recall *briefly*, record what's interesting maybe, then mantra for MILD/WILD, perhaps reduced SSILD (eliminating the visual phase which tends to make me focus my physical eyes, creating tension), erring on the falling asleep side, and if progress towards sleep is not felt soon, jettison the WILD and go purely for sleep and DILD.     Definitely want those BrandonBoss micro-WBTBs, where falling back asleep *quickly* is always possible.

Also will perhaps play with the alarm-DEILD if I can get up the willpower to download/buy and configure one of those apps.   Still may write my own.

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## fogelbise

> I was tired last night (having lost 3 hours the previous night) and just basically went back to sleep right away at every waking not even trying to recall, but with a (weak perhaps) intention to DEILD each time.



I have had some success with DEILDs when I focused on them and apparently need to put focus back on them to get them back in my line-up.  I found that when starting out it helped to get one thing down well before layering in other things. Then again, you want to also try several things to know what is right or strongest for you. Since you have a solid number of DILDs I see nothing wrong with you putting a strong focus on your next piece of the multi-faceted approach. Of course everyone is different and you may be able to add a couple of pieces.





> Definitely want those BrandonBoss micro-WBTBs, where falling back asleep *quickly* is always possible.



I still haven't read up on this (but will!) but it does sound like something that would be good for you if it helps you to fall back to sleep quickly.





> Also will perhaps play with the alarm-DEILD if I can get up the willpower to download/buy and configure one of those apps. Still may write my own.



I had a couple of lucids using this and plan to try it again, but I stepped away from it for now as it seemed to leave me tired due to interrupting my sleep cycles.

Edit: I also created a simple plan for nights when I need good rest and a separate more involved multi-faceted approach for weekend nights or nights when I feel rested and don't have anything too pressing the next day (doesn't currently include the alarm deild).

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## FryingMan

I tried the alarm-DEILD last night and failed because I forgot that turning on "do not disturb mode" (to prevent spam SMS messages from waking me up) suppresses the notification sounds.    Turned it on in the late morning but I was just too awake, almost fell back asleep, but didn't make it, and didn't try extremely hard since I had to get up for work.    Will try it again tonight!

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## FryingMan

fogelbise, you did it!    101!    Congrats!  *jealous*!

Kind of weird night for me last night.  Experimenting with always trying to DEILD at every waking which messes up recall (when I can sleep that is).  Tried it with alarms last night, this time setting them up properly.  May be too jarring for me, I woke up and couldn't sleep again.   Got up for an hour or more, felt drowsy again, BTB, tried for classical WILD, loooooooooooooooong time relaxing, finally get to the noise, it's been a long while since I was there, try to ignore it stay calm, but no dream waiting for me or I wake up too much.   I dreamt a bunch more that morning so my REM was not all used up, I just got too alert.   I should have tried to "sink deeper" at the noise and may have made it at that point perhaps.

Lots of dreams and wakings in late morning.   4-5 at least, they're in my DV DJ.     The first one was almost lucid, felt a lot like my DEILD, I just suddenly find myself staring at a wall of snow and I start thinking things about it.   As it fades I realize I'm dreaming, or I realize I'm dreaming and it fades, I"m not sure.   I may have in fact woken up and then realized I was dreaming as it still faded, I don't feel like counting it as a lucid.   I tried to bring it back / DEILD but was too alert.     I'm realizing that I dream a lot about snow and being at a ski resort!   It's a minor DS of mine.   The other dreams following it did not have that awareness.

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## fogelbise

For the alarm method, did you try it with vibrate only and in a pajama pocket or next to you in bed? It was less jarring for me that way but the unnatural interruptions definitely left me more tired the next day. I tried it for a week and had 2 lucids and then stopped using it but may try it again at some point.

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## FryingMan

Lucid #19 last night, woohoo 1 to go to 20.   So my dreaming is returning to its more or less normal state, lots of recall if I set intention.   Just in time for another 12-hour time adjustment jet lag in 5 days  :Sad: .   Also the curse of the 5th hour waking.    I found I had lots of interesting recall so I recorded but then I was wide awake, after trying to sleep for about an hour, I got up, and about 30 minutes later went back to sleep, that's when I got the lucid about 1 hour after that, waking from the lucid I was excited so couldn't get back to sleep for that last 1 hour.     Kind of groggy in the morning, lots of wakings, and sort of a "food hangover" I ate a ton of exotic stuff yesterday and my stomach was churning all night long trying to process it all.

The lucid was finally more than a moment, probably about 30 seconds but very unstable, I had a "buzzy" feeling in my head the entire time.   I could think somewhat and told myself I needed to stabilize.  I should have done the body-awareness stuff like rubbing hands and patting myself down but I faded to awake in bed.

It was fated not to last long though given how I got lucid, female-interaction-initiated-lucid dream  :smiley: .

edit:

The month and the week is not over yet, but I'm pretty pleased that I've managed 3 LDs this month, 2 of them on the road and jet-lagged.   Given my major life changes (new, demanding job, international travel), my dreaming has rebounded back nicely.   Great recall last night, really fun dreams: Teaching people to fly again (recurring now to the point where it may be promoted to a dream sign), flying and battling other flying evildoers (tried shooting lightning at them from my fingers, I don't think it appeared).    I hate hotel beds and artificial linens, I wake up absolutely roasting after a few hours.   The stupid A/C in the room has no "always cool" setting, it shuts off once it reaches the minimum temperature, I can't sleep in a stuffy room.   Give me my cotton flannel sheets, please, warm in the winter and cool in the summer.    And those horribly fluffy hotel pillows that my head sinks completely inside and also starts roasting, ugh!   I ended up using the decorative little bar cushion for a pillow because it's small and firm.

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## fogelbise

Congrats on #19!!!  ::D:  And overcoming all the challenges! Too bad you are travelling so soon.  :Sad:

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## FryingMan

Almost, ALMOST fell into a DEILD (or at least a DEID) this morning, right after waking up, felt REALLY tired, body constantly on edge of WILD noise, just couldn't sink into it.     The image started to form almost right away after waking up for the DEILD, but I pulled myself out of it / couldn't sink into it.    It was starting at about at 7hrs, perhaps my body was just done dreaming for the day.   Kept at it for about 2 hours, lots of HI, but none that could solidify into dreams.    No exercise to speak of for going on 3 weeks and eating like a pig, it's catching up with me I think, in that I'm needing less sleep or sleeping worse.

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## fogelbise

> perhaps my body was just done dreaming for the day



I had wondered the same thing a few times recently feeling like I wasn't really sleeping or dreaming...like when you are tossing and turning.  However, I would then remember a dream or two in these recent examples. This seems more common after I have gotten a good amount of sleep like what we talked about before: awareness increases but at some point starts to decrease again or go more foggy. In those examples I felt that I just lost track of time. Not sure if this could have been the case with you though.

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## FryingMan

It was odd.   I felt tired/groggy, but couldn't sleep.    Just kept creeping up to where WILD-noise would start, and hung out there.   I wasn't trying to WILD mostly, just sleep.    I need to forget about WILDing again because it just gets me too attuned to the sleep transition, I may have gotten that DEI(L)D if I had just let the HI solidify a bit.    But again, maybe I was just done for the day.  Sageous is whom I got that notion from.   However, I have successfully "forced" my self back to sleep before under similar circumstances.....but as noted, sometimes the dream awareness is already ebbing past about 8 hours and those won't be lucids (unless you're in REM rebound or something).

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## fogelbise

WILDs can be tough. My attempt last night felt so close with vibrations but I must have dropped into a non-lucid FA (in my dream there was an odd pillow with growth on it), hopefully I didn't lose lucidity before that and forget!

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## FryingMan

What is up with baseball dreams?  It seems to be a a medium-frequency dreamsign for me.    I never played much baseball/softball, some certainly but not anything like basketball or racquetball, and I never see basketball dreams (RQB dreams though are about as frequent maybe a bit more as baseball).

I've seen in various dreams: little ground lamps in between the bases, a giant fat man running the bases with the face of a famous fat actor turn into a centaur, and now baseball in the snow.   Various others too.

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## fogelbise

> What is up with baseball dreams?  It seems to be a a medium-frequency dreamsign for me.    I never played much baseball/softball, some certainly but not anything like basketball or racquetball, and I never see basketball dreams (RQB dreams though are about as frequent maybe a bit more as baseball).
> 
> I've seen in various dreams: little ground lamps in between the bases, a giant fat man running the bases with the face of a famous fat actor turn into a centaur, and now baseball in the snow.   Various others too.



That's an interesting question. Did you play some as a young child...t-ball perhaps? It also reminds me of Sageous' "Other People's Dreams" thread. How soon are you jetting about again?

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## FryingMan

> Did you play some as a young child...t-ball perhaps?



Really only very occasionally....that's why it's weird.  Probably played approximately no more than 30-40 times in my life...

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## FryingMan

Well it's about time!   Not lucid but recall of a long long dream one of the longest in fact with continuity between about 8 location/scene changes all taking place in/around a non-waking-reality friend's house.   Haven't had one that continuous for a while.   I woke up directly from the dream which explains that.    Should have gotten lucid,though  :smiley: .  It included glide/flying, and a very strange/unusual approach to a house, but other than that it was just hanging out chatting with DC "friends," (some WL friends too).   Ah though the scene where I just could not enter my ipad passcode should have made me lucid, I tried about 8 times and every time the 2nd or 3rd letter I would miss and hit the wrong key.

Here's the entry for it: 

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...e-dream-55071/

Kinda tame other than the flying bit, but notable due to the the continuity and length.    Several facepalm (why not lucid?) moments.

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## fogelbise

Congrats on the length! I still get those facepalm moments, but they can become less frequent (assuming your recall of them doesn't go up drastically..haha).

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## FryingMan

Sleep deprivation / jet lag is weird.    I thought I was doing great yesterday but totally collapsed at 4:30pm and slept until about 9:30pm.   I had some dreams too which I noted.    Then absolutely couldn't sleep at bedtime of about 2am, actually I was heading to sleep but then wife came in to bed and woke me up.   I was having pretty strong body hallucinations before that almost immediately upon getting into bed: waves. like on a raft on  a lake with big waves going from head to feet.   I thought I may make it into a dream even, and got close a second time later on  but was disturbed by wife's movements/sounds again.

Got up for an hour or two, then back to bed again, long time, eventually slept, and had a pretty vivid dream of a reunion with a childhood friend that was pretty emotional.   I saw his face pretty clearly at it seemed accurate, normally I do not notice faces much in dreams.

I was doing a lot of mantra/intention setting during the day and at bed time.   I really thought I'd get into a LD, and I may have if I could have managed to sleep.  And now I'm exhausted  :Sad: .

Ah well, I'll get out for some exercise and take a 1mg melatonin tonight to make sure I sleep at the right "bedtime."    Didn't want to take a melatonin at 4:30am since I thought it would make me groggy all day.   But I'm groggy all day anyway for not having slept!   At least I had a dream I remembered pretty well.

Feb goals reduced a bit but still aggressive considering jet lag recovery: 8 LDs.    Going to really step up the daytime work, have to come up with a consistent schedule and stick to it.    Want to keep dream yoga exercises going, too.

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## fogelbise

Well you have a plan in place as always, now just to get over that jet lag hump! To a quick recovery!

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## FryingMan

Good pool exercise session last night, the exercise will help, my travel-induced-weight-gain is already starting to melt off.    Did take the 1mg melatonin 1 hour before bedtime, boy that stuff is magic, there's a deep black yawning abyss awaiting you to sink into after about 40 mins/1 hour.   For some reason it took me a while to fall asleep still but got a good solid block of sleep.    One waking or two with some recall, made mental notes, remembered fragments upon waking in morning.

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## fogelbise

Solid deep sleep and recall is a good result! You will be back to your old self in now time  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

More exercise yesterday, even better sleep last night, got to bed a little earlier (finally!), 1mg melatonin again, don't remember anything about falling asleep or earlier morning wakings, but I did have some recall in the morning around 7hrs, several scenes.

Yep going to be back soon!    Lots of ADA/RC-location yesterday, held it for a long stretches all throughout the day.   I'm really dedicated to this, I believe it's the key for me.     The trick is going to be keeping a pearl of it going while I work.   Frequent breaks and alarms may help here.    

Couldn't get back to sleep after doing the family breakfast routine for a "nap", but got really close.   Relaxed for another hour at least.    I think the issue is that I'm "trying to fall asleep" which of course prevents sleep.    I'm aware of this and try to stop it but it's tricky...  probably just a week or two more and I'll be sleeping well again.    Also, will step up the exercise.

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## FryingMan

Less exercise with watching the Olympics.  Not successful getting back to sleep after 6 hrs several nights in a row, with pretty good recall though at that time.    Getting to sleep really fast at bed time at least.  A lot of rather tame waking-life-like dreams recently, not my previously usual wild and wacky, but last night I had  a bit of a return to that including banishing a ghost with the sign of the cross, and a cat swimming in a huge living room.   Where are the lucids?    Seems I'm in another tough time...

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## fogelbise

> Where are the lucids?    Seems I'm in another tough time...



Don't worry, if you are continuing the fundamental day work and not stressing over becoming lucid, they will come. I noticed my awareness in dreams got weaker again until last night and I think for me it was the day work was a little closer to being on auto pilot unfortunately. 6 hours of sleep several nights in a row is probably not helpful, not only in missing those additional REM opportunities but also in the side effects of getting less sleep. Are you doing anything right before nodding off at the beginning of the night or does that make it hard for you to get to sleep?

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## FryingMan

I've been doing multiple-hour practically continuous sessions of ADA/RC-location for the last several days.   Always asking myself critically, "where is this place?"   "Where was I before?"    and frequently declaring, "I'm dreaming!", doing nose pinch, and hand inspection.   Always thinking about LDing, checking DV posts, etc.

Got some exercise yesterday.    At bed-time, and I'm tending to get to bed earlier successfully (before midnight I consider "early"), I'm falling asleep almost instantly fairly consistently now.   Which is great, there's nothing I like less than lying awake at bed time (or any other time).

I'm not setting strong intention to wake up after each dream recently.   In fact, I think I only managed last night to do "I have interesting and meaningful dreams" last night (I've been having boring dreams lately so I want to get back to my wild and wacky, two nights ago I did have a more "normal" dream-like dream (rather than just standing around talking to people)), and I think "I remember my dreams" but I didn't make it to "I wake up after every dream,remain still, and recall it."   Frankly I'm not too excited about waking up after every dream these days -- my goal is to get lucids without night-time wake-up technique (thus the ADA/RC approach).

A pattern has been developing for the last week, which is I'll wake between 5-6 hours after bed with recall (sometimes more, sometimes less, but always something), I voice record it, and after this I try to go back to sleep and just can't make it back in.   I'm trying for generally at least 2 hours to get back to sleep then I just get up to make sure I'll be tired for the next night (and to get the body used to getting up at a particular time / regular schedule).

My previously developed back to sleep  technique is just not getting me there.   Could be a more active mind with my new job, or something else, perhaps the tail end of the jet lag.   I do get HI each time usually, but I become alert when these occur, even though I try to slip deeper.    I'm "trying not to try" but that's tricky!

I could try not recording, (or really try to stick to key words, a few seconds, instead of several minutes), or setting intention again to wake up after every dream.   Maybe different wording would work better, "I notice when a dream ends" instead of "waking up after every dream".

Yeah I know they'll come it's just frustrating that I seem to have to keep "starting over" after I get every good batch of LDs.... it's like 20 steps forward and 19 steps back.

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## FryingMan

Follow-up to the above: went back to bed for a late morning nap and slept for approx. 3 hours, 2 sleep cycles, I recall waking up once with recall but chose not to record and just try to slip back in, I did go back to sleep but not lucidly, don't remember those first dreams, but I did wake up right from the second batch of dreams with decent recall.

As is typical for those late morning dreams after about 8 hours it pretty much was "go with the flow" very low awareness, except right at the end I was sitting with a bunch of college students on some table and notice a long blonde haired stunning girl with her back towards me (pink leggings?), and I start to hit on her making a joke about the topic of conversation (which was showers), I touch her back to get her attention and start to give a stupid pick-up line involving showering (  :smiley:  ), and decide, no, I'm not going to do that, and I instead just am very genuine and "would like to go out with you."    She's looking at me and says something is different about you, your hair?, and I touch my face and realize I've shaved off my beard, and I feel that my hair is very long and sex-ay.

Then that transitions to hanging out with a bunch of college girls and a narrator says "you don't want to run with the buffalo" (meaning you don't want to hang out with girls who just are with you to raise their status but are otherwise not in your league.) and I wake up.

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## fogelbise

Interesting dream and the awareness bump towards the end sounds promising. I know we've talked about the timer method and someone posted a link to an old tutorial with the same idea in the WILD thread. Probably nothing new in there for you but he talks a little more (I think) about transitioning than in the other thread we were following...it might be an interesting read: http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...torial-**.html  Reading the OP made me feel like trying the method again before long.

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## FryingMan

Yes timer methods are interesting but at this point I'm not going back to sleep after 5-6 hours if awakened so I'm back to trying to fix my sleep again, sigh.

edit:

Another following the pattern last night: some brief wakings with recall which I ignored and went back to sleep (I think), followed by a waking at about 6 hours with decent recall (somewhat fragmented this time), and I can't get back to sleep after even just fast keyword recording.   Tried for a early afternoon nap, and within about 20 minutes I  started getting HI, the "falling" feeling, and some WILD 'noise' (ragged breathing mostly).   But despite attempts to "sink into it" the sensations subsided and I was then wide awake.   Argh.    WILD  seems beyond me for some reason.

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## fogelbise

I guess WILD might be something to put on the back burner until it feels like a good time to revisit the technique.

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## FryingMan

Yeah, mostly these days I do "drive by" WILDs rather than planned ones, where I notice the noise while simply trying to fall back asleep.   Happened again just now when I went back to bed for a stubborn "I want to dream more" period after morning breakfast duty (and after a pretty weird wakeful night).   Hit the pillows approx 9am, woke up just now at 1pm, probably at least one hour falling asleep.   Somewhere in that first hour (or two? didn't check the time) I got very strong rocking motion body hallucinations, but no accompanying visuals, and didn't end up in a dream, like always.

Some usual late nap dreams: low awareness, zombie-ish following along with the flow.   Lots of scenes though, each one short like a fragment.

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## fogelbise

I hear you  :Sad:   I have been relying on DILDs for a while now so it's been about a month since I had any true WILDs but have had moments like you recount above where I start to get sensations that often come before a WILD but I don't end up WILDing.

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## FryingMan

Well YAY back in the saddle!  Lucid #20 (DILD) last night.    Some notable firsts about it:

+ earliest LD yet: about 4-4.5 hours after bedtime.
+ first LD flying -- it was short (and indoors, but multi-level home so there was an elevation change while flying (and spinning!)) but awesome
+ first time I lost lucidity and kept on dreaming -- didn't wake up directly while being lucid.

It's interesting: I went to bed WAY late (2am instead of the target 11pm), so it is possible this was a "cycle adjustment" assisted LD perhaps?  Since the actual time of the dream was 06:20 which is close to when I've been waking up recently in the morning normally around my 5-6 hour waking or a bit later than that.

Felt excited but it was still quite early and I had some sort of "lucid" feeling about me so I made an effort to get back to sleep thinking I'd probably get another lucid later in the morning.   I almost took my prepared cocktail of galantamine + choline, but I was afraid I might not get back to sleep.   In retrospect perhaps I should have, I might have had a super epic LD, then again I may not have made it back to sleep. 

  It took some mental discipline to get back to sleep: ("you have to want it like you want to breathe!") to keep relaxing (I kept remembering more about the non-lucid parts of the previous dream before and kept recording them) but I made it back asleep perhaps about an hour or 1.5 later and had quite an awesome dream.    Mostly just walking around with funny stuff happening, but it ended up with 3 young ladies on the grass at a mansion party and me exercising "dream control" to convince them to "party" with me.   I woke up at the critical moment with an adrenaline rush feeling.   Argh!    That second one was so close to lucidity it practically was an LD especially with the "DC control" technique which I don't ever recall doing non-lucidly before.

On the lucid, I had to sort of "pull" myself into lucidity.   I was walking in a house and saw somebody and what I most remember is thinking "he doesn't belong here" and then realizing I'm dreaming.   Lucidity quite low (which is why I lost it, that together with the novelty of flying around).

Great night lots of dreams and a quite cool night-time flying/gliding episode at high altitude over the city lights.    Except I decided I had to turn back because I didn't want to end up in the flat-lands having left my truck parked in the hills, doh!

And what's interesting is that I sort of took yesterday "off" from the intense daytime practice -- not completely, but just a bit less intense...... I know people say this a lot how relaxing just a bit can bring on the lucids.... a combination of factors probably.

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## FryingMan

^^ Here's the DJ entry for that great night last night!   MORE MORE MORE!     Nights like that make the effort worthwhile, even if I didn't quite "convert" on the "ladies time" at the last one.

edit: oops here's the link: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...4-02-14-55360/

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## fogelbise

Nice FM!!  ::D:  It may have been helped along by a cycle adjustment. Congrats on #20! LD flying!!! Early in sleep cycles! Nice firsts!!  ::D:  I am very happy for you!!!

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## FryingMan

Thanks!   Yay,  another GOOD SLEEP NIGHT.   That's two in a row.   Hopefully that early waking junk was the jet lag and it is behind me again.   Nine hours from bedtime to final getting out of bed (with some early morning awake time rolling around but that's always figured in I suppose).   I exhausted myself in the pool doing 1km which I hadn't done in a while, I've gotten a bit out of shape, it was pretty difficult, but I did it.    That may have helped.

I did an experiment last night: did not record using the voice recording app, I just ran through the dreams mentally once I realized I had dreamed, making mental short, key notes about them then just getting right back to sleep.   Certainly some amount of detail probably suffered and I may have forgotten some recall entirely, but I do remember a number of scenes.

MAJOR FACEPALM!   Wow, a huge one!   Early morning dream, I was standing in a beautiful quiet outdoor scene, like at a retreat, looking out over a nature area between buildings.   I draped my arms forwards over the shoulder-high fence of slightly wet, cool wood and just stood there observing.  I *never* just stand and observe in dreams I'm always on the move, always engaged in plot, but not this.    It may actually have been  a new dream beginning as sometimes I do find myself just observing some visuals at the very start of a dream before getting carried away by the action.

I'm looking, noticing the features of a fence and flowery bushes across the nature area between the buildings.   I *notice that I feel light on my feet*, like I could float up, IF THIS WERE A DREAM.   That was a gravity feeling, I've been paying a bit of attention to the feel of gravity while standing in waking life practice.   Hooray, a good sign that more lucids are near I think.    Both location and gravity awareness....!   Next time...pull myself into lucidity when this happens!

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## fogelbise

Yay indeed!! This sounds like nice progress! I love the gravity awareness!

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## FryingMan

Well I"m on a roll now  ::banana::  !!  LD #21 last night.    And at least one more memorable very near miss later on.    

Firsts:

first outdoor lucid flying (daytime)first time watching a DC materialize in front of me during a summonfirst time a RC cemented the lucidity at the beginning

I was on the deck of my childhood house (primary dreamsign), looking out over the water, when I realized that there were islands in the water (or they appeared while I was watching), like it had become a very low tide[*], but that never happens because it's so deep.   I thought I must be dreaming, and right away did the nose pinch/breathe, and VOILA, Yes!  I'm dreaming.  I took off flying immediately!  Flew superman style, trying to go faster and faster through will, I also did the "there's an infinitely powerful endless source of energy in my head" propelling me forwards as fast as I want to go.  I think I heard the sound of a jet engine at that point.

Landed and was among suburban houses on a sidewalk downtown, tried a DC "around that bush" summon which didn't work (I'm not good at those, my attitude is too much like "I wish" instead of *knowing* the DC will be there.   Went for behind the back summon of same DC immediately, and as I brought my hand around there wasn't anyone there, but I kept looking and expecting, and all of a sudden a bright solid red person-shaped form appeared in front of me, and slowly the red subsided (like it was melting away getting sucked into little drains all over the form), leaving the "fully rendered" DC standing in front of me!   After interacting with the DC a bit I woke up.

And later on, I was floating down a suburban street, causing the ground/street to warp into a perfect hemispherical shape about 1 meter in diameter a few meters to my left.   And I think "It's too bad this isn't enough to get me lucid..." !!!!!! I think I win the prize for that one.

Yay I'm back and recovered and am keeping the daytime practice at high intensity, DREAM ON!
[*] Was in a museum yesterday and saw a memorable painting of a beautiful ocean scene at low tide.  Must have been residue from that.   I'm making it a point to get out on the weekends and go places with a lot of people and lots of different things to see -- for one thing, to actually enjoy waking life  :smiley: , another, to get practice of ADA/RC with lots of distractions around me, and just to gather lots of day residue, and IT WORKED!

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## fogelbise

> Well I"m on a roll now  !!  LD #21 last night.    And at least one more memorable very near miss later on.    
> 
> Firsts:
> 
> first outdoor lucid flying (daytime)first time watching a DC materialize in front of me during a summonfirst time a RC cemented the lucidity at the beginning



An awesome list of firsts for you!!! You are rollin'!!! Whoohooo!!!  ::D: 

And I like your idea for going out into big crowds, enjoying waking life and finding good challenges for your ADA/RC work!

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## FryingMan

Well no lucids last night but some OK recall and a good night's sleep, and some sleep intertia taking me into 11.5 hours after initial bedtime with little short dreams during the dozing moments.   Most importantly, kept getting back to sleep.   I did record in bed the major recall for the night at about 8 hrs.

Fought with snakes, watched a corpse reanimate and start singing, took shelter from a tornado (which I watched, it was tiny about 10 feet tall and 1 foot wide) which entered to our shelter, talked with children about where to find food, "follow the path of the bears" they said.

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## FryingMan

Well a couple nights of no lucids but pretty good recall.

Getting back to sleep victory this morning!   To bed late (01:30, again!!!! argh!!!!!), 6th hour waking, wife did breakfast duty, I couldn't get comfortable, wife got back in bed, decided to think happy warm comfortable thoughts.    Daydreaming of "stimulating" subjects kept me awake, I felt very alert, almost gave up and got up, decided I had to really focus, "you have to want it like you want to breathe," gathered my discipline/will, emptied my mind, relaxed, and *poof* I slept again and dreamed some more!

Long, super wild, near-nightmare levels of creepiness adventure dream last night (before 6th hour, not exactly sure when as I did not journal immediately after).   My memory of dreams going back to earlier wakings seems to be improving.   I'd much rather journal just in the mornings.  Maybe that means they were near-lucid levels of awareness and so going in to waking memory banks not just dreaming memory banks?

edit: dj entry for last night:

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...4-02-08-55466/

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## fogelbise

> gathered my discipline/will, emptied my mind, relaxed, and *poof* I slept again and dreamed some more!



Nice perseverance!





> Maybe that means they were near-lucid levels of awareness and so going in to waking memory banks not just dreaming memory banks?



Possibly...that would be a great result! Fingers crossed for you!

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## FryingMan

Last night: fair amount of dreams, mostly late morning, mostly low awareness, other than I'm kind of shocked that the teacher went postal and  was beating the crap out of a couple of other students in class who weren't paying attention!    Late bed time.

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## JoannaB

Were you shocked by it during the dream or only in hindsight after waking up? That would be an awareness indicator. Even in non-lucid dreams I think there is a gradient of awareness, and most of my non-lucid dreams alas are no awareness whatsoever, and in such I only feel shocked after the fact.

Another thought, maybe your teacher beating students up for lack of attention is your subconscious trying to get your attention in an effort to get you to be lucid.  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

I was pretty shocked in the dream, it was a surprising and way over-the-top reaction from the teacher -- I recall half-rising from my seat to put a stop to it but the teacher stopped.   It sure made me "pay attention" to "class," however!

I don't really go in for interpretation, but yes perhaps, the teacher was definitely trying to get the class to pay attention to the subject, and it sort of worked (I followed along the text that was being read out loud...and the teacher was also criticizing students in their lack of feeling in their reading).

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## FryingMan

Wild and wacky and pretty detailed recall again but not lucid.    To bed late (after 2am, sigh), recall mostly came in around 6 hrs, lots on my mind big meeting today so got up at around 8am.   Took nap at 12:30pm until 2pm, no recall, got close to WILD noise after about 30 mins but gave up and just slept.

Strong location awareness in one dream: standing observing a beautiful scene, wondering where exactly I was, asked a DC if the location was near (some landmark I knew in waking life), good sign for my ADA/RC-location I think!

DJ:

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...4-02-20-55543/

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## fogelbise

Congrats on the location awareness! It is great to hear that your recall is back and strong as well! I think you are knocking on the doorstep of some more lucids.

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## FryingMan

Late to bed and up early for breakfast duty meant only 1 recalled dream at morning waking.  Well not only that but I was pretty wakeful due to eating a lot of chocolates late in the day (I'm very caffeine sensitive since I'm not a coffee/tea drinker), and a big meal immediately before bedtime.   Bad, bad, bad!   Will get out for exercise today and good solid ADA/RC sessions.   Another museum trip planned this weekend  :smiley: .

But I did make it back to sleep for approx 2 sleep cycles, woke with some more recall but very low awareness as per usual with this scenario, even though I spent about 30 minutes on mantras & visualisations before getting down to sleeping.

Usual battle to sleep at the back-to-bed moment: thoughts, daydreams, visualizations, I had to force myself to stop it all and empty my head and hold it empty and just relax (but not "try to sleep"  :smiley:  ), and another success, yay.   I appreciate every time I'm able to get back to sleep from wakefulness as a big victory.

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## fogelbise

Good attitude  :smiley:  Celebrate the successes, while keeping an eye toward improving the rest.

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## FryingMan

LD #22!  ::banana::  

Today is the 6-month anniversary, exactly, of my start down the path of lucid dreaming practice!   What better way to celebrate than a night full of interesting dream recall, a near lucid, and an actual late morning lucid that completes a TOTM!

Awesome firsts:

+ first actual conversation with a DC (I spoke to her nicely!  I got 2 responses out of her!  Her name was Susannah!  Her soulmate was her husband...heh)
+ first TOTM
+ (maybe?) first lucid at the end of really late morning sleep inertia dreams

Again I recorded only twice, at about the 6-7 hour mark where I seem to usually have the bulk of my recall, and then when I got up after the LD.   I was dozing on and off with recall after the 6-7 hour waking.   Again it took discipline to empty my mind and get back to sleep.   I was uncomfortable on both sides so I "brought out the nukes" and turned on to my stomach, I slept and dreamed some more but lucid was later back on the right side.

I spent a LOT of effort last night on recall.   I woke at first around 6-7 hours thinking I had no recall.  But slowly it came in, and the more I played the dreams over and over, again and again, to make sure I remembered them without physical journaling, the more  the recall came in.   I even remembered dream scenes from long ago (years?).   I think all our thoughts and dreams are stored up in our heads just waiting for the trigger to remember them.    Thus the "life review" people experience -- it's probably just one big sudden burst of "dream/life" recall.

I was probably going over the dreams for at least for 30 minutes.   And that really thoroughly woke me up.   Probably counter-productive for getting back to sleep but I was remembering so much I wanted to get it all if I could.

edit: here's the full DJ entry.   It turns out to have been a rather epic night of recall!

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...4-02-22-55619/

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## fogelbise

Woohoo FM!!! Excellent job!!!  ::D:  Your hard work is paying off! That is really interesting that you kept recalling dream new and past during that super recall session!

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## FryingMan

Thanks!   ^^ Love the new sig!

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## StingPT

Hey FryingMan! Congratulations on your #22 LD and also of your first TOTM! Our first TOTM is always memorable ^^

I have to say that you're making great efforts on recalling! And they are indeed giving results! Have you thought on trying some kind of meditation? A basic one maybe. That may help you even more on your recall!

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## FryingMan

StingPT,
   Thanks!    You know, I really have not done much of mediation.    How specifically would one go about that specifically for lucidity and lucid dreaming, since there are many ways of doing meditation as I understand it?

I am working on ADA/RC (continuous RC) where I try to be continually mindful of my state all throughout the day.   Some days I can hold it for a long time, and some days I lose it a lot, but I'm getting better at it and I think it is helping with with LDing more.

I have tried one or two exercises from sivason's dream yoga but only did it a few times, but that's also on my list of things to work on!

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## Bharmo

I stumbled upon this thread and thought you might like to check it out as it might (or might not) help with your location based all day reality check
http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...rtography.html
Sorry to "stalk" you, I'm just very curious (and optimistic) on how your approach to LDing will work out.

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## StingPT

Yeah, I was going to recommend sivason's dream yoga exercises. I'm doing them too (ADA and sivason's exercises) !

By meditating, you clean your mind of thoughts and so you can perceive the world around you better (hearing, for example). That helps on awareness!

By doing it before going to sleep, helps you clean your mind of thoughts, so that you can focus better on your mantra (if you have any), having better chances of working. That's because you fall asleep with much less thoughts, so that  makes the mantra/idea more "noticeable" to you!

I hope that answers your question =)

PS: Yeah, sometimes it is hard to stay aware most of the day, but hopefully it gets easier with practice ^^

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## FryingMan

> I stumbled upon this thread and thought you might like to check it out as it might (or might not) help with your location based all day reality check
> http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...rtography.html
> Sorry to "stalk" you, I'm just very curious (and optimistic) on how your approach to LDing will work out.



It's a public forum so "stalking" is not possible  :tongue2: .

I'm honored to have anyone interested in my approach and progress, doesn't bother me a bit!      I'm writing both for myself and for those who come later.   I think it would be an interesting read some day from my beginnings up to lucid all night every night (heh heh....YES I'll get there!  I will!   Positive thoughts!)

Interesting about dream cartography -- I frequently have a very good sense of dream orientation -- my path through the dream world, which is why I focus on location and transitions in my ADA/RC.   I've drawn a few dream paths but my illustration skills are pretty much stuck at the stick figure level, so don't do it much.    I do note however orientation and relative positioning of DCs and objects and directions I take in my DJ.

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## fogelbise

> Thanks!   ^^ Love the new sig!



Thanks.  :smiley:  I think the sig/image actually influenced my dreams the last 2 nights in a round-a-bout way and may have nudged me toward lucidity before my old reliable dream sign kicked in. I am leaving it for now and I will continue to see it when I preview my posts but will probably mostly uncheck the option "show signature" when I finalize my posts.(leaving it for this post though). Keep up the good work! I fully expect you to surpass me before long! I am too much on a recreational LD path to stay ahead of your progress I think.  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Excellent about the dreams.   Ah, now, don't sell yourself short, you've been on quite the accelerated path and you made 100 by your 1-year anniversary.   It will take quite a bit of effort to match that seeing as I'm only at 22 at mid-year.   If I can start getting multiple per night that would be great, but my biggest challenge (regular sleep schedule), and one almost entirely up to me, still eludes me.    I was on a semi-regular schedule up to about 1/2 a week ago and I was getting excellent recall and some LDs, so there should be motivation to continue that....must...do...it!

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## fogelbise

^Thanks.  :smiley:  I do think that your rate will accelerate in the near future given your excellent work ethic! I remember my slower climb up to the 20's or so LD mark. I also agree on the sleep schedule, that will help as well.

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## FryingMan

I reinstalled my "I wake up after every dream" intention last night to try to get more lucidity opportunities, and it worked.....too well, at 4 hrs I had some light recall but then couldn't get back to sleep.    Every time I got close to sinking in to relaxation some noise started, either traffic or (wife's) snoring, which even through ear plugs was enough to keep me awake.

Finally got to sleep in the late late morning, but then my wife came barreling in to the room waking me up because the internet was down.    I was in the middle of a dream, too, argh.

At least I put my foot down with myself over sleep schedule and got to bed before midnight.   Shooting for 11pm if I can but before midnight is good.   Took 1mg melatonin about 40 mins before bed to help with readjusting the schedule and got to sleep very quickly.

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## fogelbise

Good luck with the new sleep schedule. What a way to be awoken when you finally did get to sleep.  ::?:

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## FryingMan

Got to be before midnight night before last and had some good recall, it's in the journal.

Got to bed a bit later last night (12:40am), there were some interruptions at bed time, I wasn't feeling particularly sleepy (I did take that nap yesterday), so I took 1mg melatonin after disturbance ended.   Got to sleep within about 30 minutes after that.   Woke about 08:20, didn't have dreams on my mind, but boy did they pour in after that.   I spent at least 10-15 minutes going over them.  So much so that I got up to voice record, and it took me 15 minutes of fast talking to get it all down.  I remembered several more scenes as I was recording.  It's going to take me a couple hours to transcribe I think but I'll do it because they were really fun with lots of detail.    The memory of the experiences indicates that they were very vivid.

I also at least once thought about my location: ("Look at this dry dirt, look at the vegetation on this hill,  I must be in California")

At one point I took solid, slow notice of the faces of a bunch of people sitting around a table with me and tried hard to remember if I knew them or not.   Then the SC-rationalization-engine fed me a false memory that they were all employees of a gambling card club.  Meh!

I also for the first time that I recall was looking for a bathroom because I felt like I needed to go to the bathroom.    Good thing I didn't find one, because when I woke up I did need to go...

Then in and out of sleep, noisy environment, took out earplugs because my ears were really irritated.   Slept more and dreamt a LOT more.  Awareness not quite as high but not super zombie-like.   Forgot probably more than half of that later waking and still came up with a lot of scenes.    Oh yeah, and some sex  :smiley: .

Dream recall ROCKS!

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## StingPT

Awesome recall! I wish I could have the same as you have!

I don't know if you tried this, but I'm also doing a daily journal. I write mostly everything that happened today, and that seems to really boost my recall. You don't need to write it down, I think that if you think about the day is enough. Or you can record it  :tongue2: 

Keep up with it! You're doing great!

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## FryingMan

^^ Thanks!   I do Sageous RRC work which involves thinking back to what you were doing 15 minutes ago.   I sometimes think backwards over the events of the day, and I think it's helpful to strengthen the ability to access memory.

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## fogelbise

> The memory of the experiences indicates that they were very vivid.
> 
>  I also at least once thought about my location: ("Look at this dry dirt, look at the vegetation on this hill, I must be in California")
> 
>  At one point I took solid, slow notice of the faces of a bunch of people sitting around a table with me and tried hard to remember if I knew them or not.



Nice, nice, nice! All good signs indeed!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Detailed recall this weekend.     
DJ entries for Friday & Saturday nights (including the above  mentioned scenes)

It takes me hours to type up this stuff, and I'm a fast typist, but I don't want to lose details.   I think it's good though because I'm engrossed in the imagery of the dreams this way.   I've gotten away from doing this.    I was journaling EVERY DAY during the last competition, I think I need to return to the daily journals, even with the day work being engrossed in the dream memories in the daytime seems to aid in lucidity a lot.


00:00 Saturday 2014-03-01 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

00:00 Sunday 2014-03-02 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

p.s. Scarlett, you can visit my dreams any time  :smiley: .

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## FryingMan

Getting the no-lucids grumpies again.  1 week + 2 days.     Hmm, what could be going on?   

+ I've got the recall (oh Lord I've got the recall, just check my DJ in the last few weeks, it took me 2+ hours to type up just this weekend's)
+ I've got the daytime practice.
+ I have awareness moments in dreams where I'm studying locations/people/objects around me.

But I'm not converting as much as I like.

What could it be....?

+ irregular schedule (known issue....I....must.....fix....this!)?
+ lack of middle-of-the-night practice?
+ too many intentions, mantras too long?   
+ need to add meditation?
edit:
+ supplement use: creating an unintended subconscious psychological dependency?  Or actual physical desensitization leading to neuro-biochemical-lucid challenges?   I think I'll stay completely away from them, I was on a real upward swing including a good lucid without them.   My poor performance in February *could* have been due to the multiple supplement (and by supps I mean galantamine and choline variations) experiments as well as the jet lag.

Maybe I need to hold my nose (edit: haha pun unintentional just realised) and do more middle of the night wakings.   I'd rather not (I *like* sleeping through to the 6th hour) but maybe I need to work in some regular micro-WBTBs.

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## fogelbise

If you can wake up naturally at 4.5 hours and you feel rested and can do a mini-wbtb, I think that would help. If you are having trouble getting back to sleep at the 6 hour waking, perhaps writing quick tags for your DJ entries and a quick wbtb with the idea that it will hopefully be easier to get back to sleep (this would be sacrificing some recall for some better chances for becoming lucid). The other factor that I would lean towards besides wbtb would be the old standby I mention...doing what you need to do (you've got that part) while telling yourself that there is absolutely no pressure on you that you need to get lucid tonight and let it flow a little more Taoist style.





> p.s. Scarlett, you can visit my dreams any time



Right on!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Well there's good news and there's bad news.

Good news: got to sleep more or less around 11pm, woke at 4hrs with pretty interesting but short recall of some trippy dreams with flying.

Bad news: yup you guessed it, couldn't go back to sleep, what a disaster.    I only went to the bathroom and recorded for 1 min.  Used my power sleep method but always external disturbance interfered just on the border of sleep.   After being awake for 2.5 hours I took 1mg melatonin, always a dicey thing to do in the middle of the night, but I was desperate.   After about an hour I started floating in deep well of drowsiness with very strange sensations and may even have become lucid and may have slept but I don't remember, it felt like I was awake and on the border of sleep for hours more.   Wife asked me to take the morning breakfast duty and I snapped at her and now I'm in the doghouse. (edit: out of the doghouse at least, whew).   Slept eventually afterwards but shocked awake again due to phone/door knocking.    Just as well since it was after 1pm.    Wow what a night, egads.    And the only recall I have is the first waking's!

I'll be honest with you my last couple of week's approach of not setting intent to wake in the night and waking in the morning well rested with tons of recall and fairly high awareness moments (potential lucidity) sure seems preferable.    But I do need to beat this back to sleep monster, I'm sure it will give me more lucidity opportunities.

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## KonchogTashi

I have moved middle of the night waking & WBTB to weekends when I have the opportunity for 2 more hours of sleep. During the week I try to sleep through the night and record upon getting up. This seems fine for me. The only drawback is that after sleeping in on Saturday/Sunday the transition back to a 5 a.m.-ish rising is a bit rough on Monday/Tuesday.

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## FryingMan

> I have moved middle of the night waking & WBTB to weekends when I have the opportunity for 2 more hours of sleep. During the week I try to sleep through the night and record upon getting up. This seems fine for me. The only drawback is that after sleeping in on Saturday/Sunday the transition back to a 5 a.m.-ish rising is a bit rough on Monday/Tuesday.



This certainly seems attractive.   There are examples of awesome lucid dreamers who only DILD without any night wakings (e.g., Hukif).   Then there are those who are up-and-coming awesome lucid dreamers like BrandonBoss who wakes up a lot and this seems to give him more LD opportunities.    Seeing as I'm not a multi-year-master or anything I think I need to just get lucid a lot more so I can get my brain aligned with lucid dreaming sooner rather than later.   I have a flexible schedule so sleeping in on a bad night is an option (but not ideal).

So I'm not sure of what to do.   All in all I lost a bunch of potential recall (late morning REMs) in return for a small bit of recall (3rd-4th hour), and that's not a good bargain.   I was hoping though for increased awarness with the waking of course, and well, I got it, but too much.

Fogelbise may be right and I may be trying too hard.    Yet another balance to strike (like WILD), you have to work hard over LDing in general, but on any given night feel really relaxed and confident.

Edit: of course it could be my wacky sleep schedule where to-bed times can vary night to night by up to 3 hours.   I'm working on getting to bed by 11pm and out of bed by 9am under all circumstances (to allow for 8 hours sleep plus WBTB and slow-to-sleep time)

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## fogelbise

> Slept eventually afterwards but shocked awake again due to phone/door knocking.
> 
> I'll be honest with you my last couple of week's approach of not setting intent to wake in the night and waking in the morning well rested with tons of recall and fairly high awareness moments (potential lucidity) sure seems preferable.    But I do need to beat this back to sleep monster, I'm sure it will give me more lucidity opportunities.



1.Ouch!  :Sad:  Are you sure the phone/knocking wasn't HH? 2. That would be great, but I hear you! Sleep is crucial too! You can eventually get both.





> I have moved middle of the night waking & WBTB to weekends when I have the opportunity for 2 more hours of sleep. During the week I try to sleep through the night and record upon getting up. This seems fine for me. The only drawback is that after sleeping in on Saturday/Sunday the transition back to a 5 a.m.-ish rising is a bit rough on Monday/Tuesday.



This is what I usually do but I started adding some wbtb's during the week when feeling rested and if I get to bed on time. Last night I had a nice DILD without any intentional wbtb (woke up, bathroom, wrote some quick notes for ~20 seconds and had a little more wakefulness than usual).





> Edit: of course it could be my wacky sleep schedule where to-bed times can vary night to night by up to 3 hours.   I'm working on getting to bed by 11pm and out of bed by 9am under all circumstances (to allow for 8 hours sleep plus WBTB and slow-to-sleep time)



3 hour variance could definitely play a part. Did you have any insomnia before starting recall and LDing?

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## FryingMan

> 1.Ouch!  Are you sure the phone/knocking wasn't HH? 2. That would be great, but I hear you! Sleep is crucial too! You can eventually get both.



I was firmly asleep, and woken from the phone buzzing, and then only barely heard the knocking on the door.  Was definitely awake.   I do not have auditory hallucinations, I can only recall one or perhaps two times a very quick shout that couldn't have been there.    I'm pretty much visuals only with HH/HI.




> This is what I usually do but I started adding some wbtb's during the week when feeling rested and if I get to bed on time. Last night I had a nice DILD without any intentional wbtb (woke up, bathroom, wrote some quick notes for ~20 seconds and had a little more wakefulness than usual).
> 
> 3 hour variance could definitely play a part. Did you have any insomnia before starting recall and LDing?



Sometimes, but infrequently, usually only like the night before something big like a trip or a job interview.    I had no problems waking up a lot in the very beginning, journaling, then getting right back to bed.    When starting SSILD/MILD in the middle of the night then the back-to-sleep issues started.   But I was on vacation in a quiet place in a single bed in a dark room.    Ah, can't wait for spring and heading back to my lucid hideout for the spring/summer/fall..

Got to bed before midnight, and got myself up at 9am.   Slept perhaps 7-ish hours.   Good start.    Oh and some interesting recall, but short by my standards, almost lost it but it came in, yay.

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## FryingMan

OK, getting serious: signature change to emphasize the ADA/RC (so I think about it while cruising DV), and started a challenge thread for myself to get into and out of bed ON TIME for a solid month and to observe the effects.

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...challenge.html

Had some recall last night, interesting but short by my standards, but somewhat noteworthy is that I remembered several dreams across multiple wakings (was close, but they finally came back to me at the final waking).

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## fogelbise

I like the signature idea and your get to bed on time challenge!  :smiley:  These should be good adjustments to your overall game plan.

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## FryingMan

Had to really reach for the recall this morning but it came in.  5-6 scenes, kind of interesting, common theme of the response to a sympathy letter I wrote to family (IWL family tragedy).   I tried for a minute or so to read a hand-written response from a cousin, and just couldn't do it.  I could barely make out any words, it was just squiggles going up and down like waves.  I saw what looked like the occasional "I" or "I'll" but that's all.   Eventually my mother spoke up and said "yeah I can't read her writing either".   I saw tear stains on the letter too.    I also received a "kiss" from another young cousin via an imprint of lips in some sort of cream in a small plastic package.  Took me a dream moment to figure out what that was  :smiley: .

Got to bed on time though!   23:18, woohoo.   Woke at 06:something, recalled, recorded, couldn't just drop back to sleep though, so about 7ish hours of sleep only.   Darn.   Didn't exercise yesterday, was generally annoyed at boring errands I had to do yesterday messing up my schedule.

Adding a morning ritual: going out for a newspaper, only about a 10 minute walk, but gets ADA/RC primed for the day.

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## fogelbise

> Adding a morning ritual: going out for a newspaper, only about a 10 minute walk, but gets ADA/RC primed for the day.



Great idea to start the day off right!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Damn, Scarlett, was that YOU last night?    More blonde fun:

00:00 Friday 2014-03-07 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Night of work dreams, and nothing but work.   At least I got in some daring, physical flirting at the outdoor work event  :smiley: .

edit: More back to sleep fail at 6 hrs.  Up eventually, then back at 10:30 sleep to 12:30, NOT the schedule I'm looking for.   To bed OK, just about midnight, but still behind schedule.   Late work meeting so to bed couldn't be helped.

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## FryingMan

I had an important dream ephiphany on my dream walk today in the dream park with lots of dream ducks: I'm dreaming!    I'm always dreaming.   There are dreams with sensory input, and dreams without them.    By working on becoming lucid in sensory dreams, we can also learn how to become lucid in our non-sensory dreams.     By doing the nose-pinch dream-check we can determine whether we are in a sensory dream or a non-sensory dream.   By working on accessing memory in sensory dreams we can get better at accessing memory in non-sensory dreams.

I saw lots of dream things on my dream walk: dream trees, dream people, the cute blue eyed dyed auburn short haired dream cashier in the dream store who wears a snake ring among others, and a wide studded dog-collar watch band (almost three inches wide!).   She also, despite being quite young, has a very discernible mustache.   Dreams are awesome.   I'm dreaming, I'm always dreaming!

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## fogelbise

> Damn, Scarlett, was that YOU last night?



Sounds like my kind of dream!





> I had an important dream epiphany on my dream walk today in the dream park with lots of dream ducks: I'm dreaming! I'm always dreaming.



I just wanted to make sure that I was following you correctly...this was a waking life event with normal 'sensory' input, unlike the dream world where most sensory input from the waking world is shut out (though there is sensory simulation that often feels very real). Either way, life is but a dream as well. Become lucid in life, become lucid in your dreams. Is that what you meant?

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## FryingMan

> Sounds like my kind of dream!
> 
> I just wanted to make sure that I was following you correctly...this was a waking life event with normal 'sensory' input, unlike the dream world where most sensory input from the waking world is shut out (though there is sensory simulation that often feels very real). Either way, life is but a dream as well. Become lucid in life, become lucid in your dreams. Is that what you meant?



Yes!

And I realized that I can't force things.    They'll come when they come, I know that.   For whatever reason, I'm on another lucid dry spell.    Despite the end of Feb. TOTM lucid and the high amount of good recall, and the day work.    The only explanation I can come up with is that (other than, well, it takes time sometimes, be patient), is that my fairly large ingestion of supplements the last time has desensitized my lucid dreaming receptors, and I have to wait for them to return to normal.    They are I suppose (except for melatonin) all destined for the toilet.    Expensive experiment, but a learning experience and a decent warning I suppose.   Hopefully it won't take long to get my natural ability back.

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## FryingMan

Well the situation is moving beyond the no-lucid grumpies to being downright pissed.   Two solid weeks, no lucids.    Recall is OK but backing off from awesome levels a week ago.

One absolutely bizarre LSD-trip dream of billiard tables on the ceiling and billiard balls chasing each other on tracks turning in to dogs last night. (edit: I should note it's what I *think* and LSD trip is like, no actual experience  :smiley:  )

And I'm sorry, but WTF, I spend 30 seconds encountering that cute cashier with the light moustache, and THAT'S WHAT I GET in my dreams instead of "I'm dreaming" which I tell myself who knows how many dozens or hundreds of times through the day?    

Need to make some changes, something's not right, I've fallen somehow off of my increasing frequency path, it feels like I"m starting all over again.   

1) exercise in the morning, not the evenings.   I've been getting too close to bed time with my exercise, it may be messing with my sleep

2) exercise more.   30 minutes not good enough, now I'm doing a full hour so I'm swimming 2km instead of 1km.   Not sure if I can keep that up every day may need to take it easier on alternate days

3) re-instate prospective memory exercises.   

4) ????  I'm somewhat loathe to return to "I wake up after every dream" mantra because I think I don't get enough sleep with it since I'm not getting back to bed quickly enough.   And recall is holding at "good" levels for now, at least for the late morning waking.   After about 6-7 am it takes huge effort to get back to sleep and only if the surrounding noise/movement allows which is hit or miss.   Maybe increase exercise will help.

5) fix sleep schedule, I"m working on it seriously now, mixed success so far.   Have to keep it up.

6) get the heck out of the city.   We have only one car and it's a multi-hour trek to our cabin on public transportation but it may be worth it to spend a few days a week there since the snow is gone.    Unfortunately I may not be able to make the about 1km+ walk after the train as I have some tendonitis going on in one foot.   

AAAAAAAAAAA!

Yes I know they'll come when they're ready.   Patience.    Bah.

All this day work and recall is going to explode into stunning LD frequency any day now.   Then I won't be able to stop.    Yeah, that's the ticket.

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## fogelbise

> Yes!
> 
> And I realized that I can't force things.    They'll come when they come, I know that.



I 100% agree and I have no doubt that they will come.





> 4) ???? I'm somewhat loathe to return to "I wake up after every dream" mantra because I think I don't get enough sleep with it since I'm not getting back to bed quickly enough. And recall is holding at "good" levels for now, at least for the late morning waking. After about 6-7 am it takes huge effort to get back to sleep and only if the surrounding noise/movement allows which is hit or miss.



I don't know if I mentioned it to you but during my first 30 LDs or so I had sleep issues and a good deal of tiredness so I reserved most attempts for the weekends and similar. Somehow I mostly resolved the sleep issues but I still don't try every night since I frequently just feel like resting. Everyone is different so this may not be the answer for you but it is one way to consider bringing back an earlier WBTB once or twice a week.

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## FryingMan

Decent night!  To bed a bit after 23:00, out of bed at 08:00 (woke around 07:00), woke about 3 times before final waking, twice taking time for quick record, managed to get back to sleep at all times.     Drank a lot of water during the day yesterday and think the first waking was a BrandonBoss water technique as I woke immediately from the end of the dream having "to go" fairly urgently, but I had *the whole dream* in my head when I woke up, very rare for that time (04:00), scene after scene after scene.    Got a lot of them recorded.    Pretty vivid, detailed, too, random wacky stuff.  I think I saw new colors  :smiley:  and gave them a name with some others.

Later morning dreams had some of my dream body in them, indicating increased self-awareness.  I looked at my arms and they weren't right (looking back while awake) and commented on my skin.   Non-lucid dream body sightings are fairly rare, hopefully that's a sign that lucidity is imminent.

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## fogelbise

Nice! This sounds like something you could make work for you. I must have gotten the water idea from BB also. Last night I set an intention to realize that I was dreaming in 4 hours 15 minutes and repeated it as 255 minutes. It appears that the timer in my brain went off but it seemed to wake me up physically instead of in the dream...or it was just coincidence that I woke up at right about the 255 minute mark. I thought it was interesting. May just need to "re-word" the intent.

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## FryingMan

^^ Great I'll have to try that.   Amazing clock we have up there in our heads!   Also something like "in 5 hours I will lucid dream" perhaps.

Sleep schedule stabilizing.  Converging on the goal of 23:00-09:00 limits.  FINALLY my wife has realized she needs to join me on the regular sleep schedule, early to bed and early up in the morning, this will help.

A number of wakings, lots of recall, started thinking about work at 06:00 and that kept me awake until about 07:41, at which point I did the full court press on relaxation, and there was enough drowsiness there still to work with, I hung there hovering over the abyss for a while, just held it, started dreaming once and startled myself awake, congratulated myself about making it that far, decided if I can do it once I can do it again and stay asleep, and I did!   Eventually slept until about 09:30, about one more cycle.   Allowed myself a little longer in bed due to the 1.5 - 2 hours of awake time.

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## fogelbise

^^This really seems like you are starting to hit your stride and you are pulling together the last few pieces of the puzzle (sleep schedule and getting back to sleep)!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

As always, fogelbise, you have a profound predictive ability.   LD #23 last night!   ::banana::    And it was led up to by the longest NDs I've ever recalled I think.   20-30 minutes easily.   3-4 interweaving, reoccuring themes.   I commanded my SC last night to make me lucid, and it obliged by throwing dreamsign after dreamsign at me, and when that wasn't enough, it SHOCKED me lucid with a startling event and semi-nightmare combined with my #1 dream sign.    Short, 15-20 seconds, but I was really startled and was very very surprised to find myself dreaming.

And I got to bed fairly easily, deeeeep drowsiness to sink into, didn't wake up as much as I wanted, only 2 middle-of-night wakings (5.5 hrs and 7.5 hrs, LD @ 7.5 hours).  Got back to sleep after the LD, too, fairly unusual for me, it some while to calm down with the awe of all the recall, not knowing if I could hold it all in my head to record it.

Overslept unfortunately, to 11th hour, little recall despite some more dreaming, forgot most of it except the very last.   I'll have to exercise extra hard today to make sure I'm sleepy at the planned bedtime tonight.

I think the new sleep schedule is really starting to show fruit, and moving exercise to morning is great as well for getting to sleep and getting back to sleep.

Oh and I also did  the BrandonBoss "combo breaker" meditation last night before bed, it must have helped!

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## fogelbise

Awesome FryingMan!! I am so happy for your new progress! This could really launch you to the next level!  ::D:  Can you tell me or point me to info on the combo breaker meditation?

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## FryingMan

3-part meditation: 1) "forget" your body, part by part, including your head.   You should be pretty relaxed and feel "floaty" by now.  Then  2) auto-suggestion: "i'm a master lucid dreamer, no one's better than me, I'm lucid all night ever night", every dream is lucid, etc..   3) (MILD-like) visualization of last night's dreams, tell yourself "I'm dreaming" during them, see yourself becoming lucid in the dream.

Oh a couple other things I did yesterday day:

1) took a lucid walk in the late afternoon, people were giving me funny looks as I was constantly talking to myself "I'm dreaming!   I'm dreaming!" and making gestures to pump myself up  :smiley: .   Oh, and the moon was beaming infinite lucid dreaming power into my brain.

2) had two heaping spoonfuls of a ground flax seed & lecithin mixture.  Not sure of the relative amounts, mostly flax I think.   I've been having large helpings of ground flax for a couple days now in the daytime.   And drinking a lot of water, and glucking down fish oil as well, all brain-friendly stuff, including regular fairly intense exercise.   Exercise also helps tremendously with sleep!

Oh, also a first:

1) first daytime LD in my #1 dream sign: parent's (my childhood) house.

I'm there all the time in dreams.   I usually only notice it however upon waking up.   I guess my brain has a hard time thinking up "places."   That's fine with me!   Reliable routine = lucidity!

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## fogelbise

Thank you for the info on the 3 part meditation.  :smiley: 





> 1) took a lucid walk in the late afternoon, people were giving me funny looks as I was constantly talking to myself



I could really picture this and it made me smile.  :smiley: 

And you are still finding firsts which I really like!

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## FryingMan

LD #24 but I'm not super stoked about it, it was a short FA and woke as I realized I was dreaming.   Better than nothing!   Otherwise a fairly discouraging night, only short recall at 6 hrs, then no sleep, then fitful dozing, and finally some real sleep (I guess because my wife got up) and I got up super late at about noon.    Crap.





> I was dozing on the border of sleep, and I kept seeing a lot of images forming that were most likely dream beginnings, but they faded away, I tried to pull my attention away from them into just sleep to let them form properly, I saw what looked like a wall of bathroom tile patterns, so I tried to imagine myself in the shower or in the bathroom, happened several times but it didn't seem to be working.
> 
> Then I was in the bathroom at the toiliet, turned towards the other wall, and my head felt really heavy/drowsy/dizzy, I thought I should get right back to bed I'd probably lucid dream right away.   This isn't my bathroom, this is a FA, I'm dreaming...and I'm awake in bed.



Oh and good for me: I got up and looked out the window and WTF, the world is covered in snow, I did a noise pinch right away!  When I went to bed the ground was entirely dry, not a hint of snow left except thin ice on a few park ponds.   It hasn't snowed in over 6 weeks here and it seemed that winter was really over.  But as my wife says, March is the month when Winter battles with Spring.   In fact it's snowing right now.

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## fogelbise

Hey, it goes in your bank of experience and definitely counts as catching an FA and becoming lucid! And good job remembering to RC upon the snowy scene!  :smiley:  Congrats!

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## FryingMan

LD #25  ::banana::     And a good one it was.    Not a point-fest for the competition but better than nothing.   I achieved a goal!    Sensory involvement in the dream!   *really* looked around, and touched and felt something on the wall.    Wow how rewarding to finally really look at a dream scene.   It was weird, and totally vivid and clear!    In a hallway, walls/ceiling/floor all painted a pea-soup green color mottled with lots of big streaks and blobs of white and blue and other colors, like marble but weirder, dreamier, "gooey-er," like wet paint.

I resolved to hold the dream and to observe for as long as I could.

Thought I should summon a cookie in my pocket and eat it, turned around and started walking, forgot the cookie instantly, darn.

Right away came on a bend in the corridor where there was located a snack stand.    With cute attendants.    Double darn.

Quick internal debate.    "I can risk a quick kiss."     Check 'em out, choose one, eye contact, "come here!".  Shy smile, she starts moving towards me, POOF fast buzz fade to awake.  "No!"  Lol....

Next goal: achieve body awareness pat-down AND sensory engagement.    Hold the sensory engagement, hold the feeling of location.

This was BTW totally an ADA/RC-location lucid, I believe.   I noticed  the location changing, former available paths became sealed off, I felt I couldn't find my way back to where I started, and then I was just lucid.

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## fogelbise

> This was BTW totally an ADA/RC-location lucid, I believe. I noticed the location changing, former available paths became sealed off, I felt I couldn't find my way back to where I started, and then I was just lucid.



This is awesome FryingMan!  ::D:  Just imagine how many people give up on an ADA/RC technique without giving it the proper time and effort. It is coming together for you!  Was that something like lucid 3 of the last 4 nights?  ::breakitdown::  You are motivating me.  ::D:

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## FryingMan

> This is awesome FryingMan!  Just imagine how many people give up on an ADA/RC technique without giving it the proper time and effort. It is coming together for you!  Was that something like lucid 3 of the last 4 nights?  You are motivating me.



No, that's now *4 of the last 5 nights*!   LD #26   ::banana::   :Party: 

Firsts:
lucid 3 days in a rowlucid 4 out of 5 consecutive LD nightsdon't lose dream with kiss (this is huge)hold close-up face-to-face after-kiss view for a good 30 seconds.   Adorable brown eyes...remember to do a goal while in close quarters with cutie, and *do* it, not just remember it.
I'm doing a lot of things.   I did pre-bed meditation again last night.   I'm holding my ADA/RC as long as I can.   I even got clarification of what I notice in dreams: paths and orientation, not just "where I am."   Which I always sort of knew but interpreted as "location."   I'll mix in path and orientation to "where I am" now.    I'm repeating "I'm dreaming" all throughout the day and imagining becoming lucid wherever I am (after a while that gets harder to believe so I don't do it constantly).

And regular sleep schedule I think is really starting to show it's power.   And I'm not 100% regular yet, but am definitely reducing variability.    I got up at 8.5 hours even though I probably spent 1 hour awake (well, drifting mostly actually), even though I could have perhaps slept and LDed again, but I schedule made me get up, yay.

Chugged down more ground flax/lecithin mixture yesterday.  Had some dark chocolate (both days actually, yesterday and today) in the afternoon/evening.   Relaxed on diet and had some pizza, cake, and a few cookies for "dinner."    I've also been taking Ginko Biloba this last week.   Brain function is my new thing.   Gotta go get some blueberries and make smoothies.

edit: here's the DJ:

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...or-totm-56368/

edit: more firsts:
first time two TOTMs in a rowfirst time TOTM with 2 solid weeks to go in the month  :smiley:

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## Bharmo

Congrats again!  ::goodjob:: 





> I'm ... imagining becoming lucid wherever I am



I've found that to be the most effective way to get lucid for me ATM. On the other hand, sometimes I feel like I'm "dream incubating lucidity" and wonder if that is cheating... and I keep forgetting to do it anyways  ::chuckle:: 

Keep up the good work Fryingman! Eventually I want to try some kind of All-Day-Something, and people like Naiya, KingYoshi, Hukif, Azul, Mylenes or you, may prove to be the pioneers that others (like me) will be able to follow.

PS:That's the people I know have seriously done the All Day thing, there's probably more, I guess, and I would not mind be pointed who they are  :wink2:

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## FryingMan

Another thing about this sort of day practice (ADA-style): how can we expect to consistently closely observe and engage in the dream environment if we don't do it when waking (or as I prefer, "in sensory dreams"  :smiley:  )?   Just realized this today.    And the location experience of 2 nights ago was revelatory: it wasn't *where* I was that made me lucid [consciously at least], but realizing that paths that I had thought were open to me before were now closed, and that I did not know the way back to where I started.   So it may be that the accent for my location work should be on paths and orientation, which are normally stronger for me anyway and feel natural in dream-land.    We'll see!

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## fogelbise

> No, that's now 4 of the last 5 nights! LD #26  
> 
>  Firsts:
> lucid 3 days in a row
> lucid 4 out of 5 consecutive LD nights
> don't lose dream with kiss (this is huge)
> hold close-up face-to-face after-kiss view for a good 30 seconds. Adorable brown eyes...
> remember to do a goal while in close quarters with cutie, and *do* it, not just remember it. 
> ...
> ...



Awesome, awesome!! I am so happy for your FryingMan!! And 7 firsts! Whoa! This goes to show that dedication and perseverance pays off! We may be at that stage that I was predicting where your lucid frequency overtakes mine! I would need to put in more daytime work to keep up with you I feel. I am not afraid to be honest here. I do feel that you motivated me to buckle down and put in a little more daytime work yesterday and it paid off last night. Next up for you: watch out LD veterans! This kind of frequency will allow you to get more practice with dream control and stability and beyond!  ::D:

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## FryingMan

Thanks!   Yeah, was hoping to coming and say I continued the streak, but all streaks must end sometime.   Ah, so close, too.    I'm starting to get some sort of "lucid-y" feeling while falling asleep in the late mornings where I'm sure I'll get lucid.   And I may have today but just as a waking moment, but I'm not sure so I'm not going to count it.   Oh, and I "woke" to another FA I believe (in a fake bed/room, I have yet to get a FA in my "real" bed).   I was wondering how people got so many FAs, and I think the answer is that once you start getting more of what BB calls GDA (general dream awareness) and SA (state awareness) that's when they start happening because you "remember" that you were just in bed and it's sort of an incubation of sorts.

As for catching up...well, we'll see.    To make 100 LDs by the end of August will be a feat, it will require either getting mulitple per night or maintaining more than a 1 LD / 2 days average.  

No doubt though, it's been a fabulous week -- longest ND, of the 4 LDs, 3 were very vivid LDs, one with nice stabilization and engagement, 2 with very good memory/awareness.   One definitely location based, and this morning almost a location based during the FA where I was examining my location, but false memories and "reasoning" about what I saw distracted me.

Oh and  I got to bed just after 23:00 last night, and so when I was "volunteered" to get up for breakfast duty at 07:40, I had already passed my peak LDing time so I wasn't frustrated!   I had had my chance with the last dream/FA combo.     There's some lingering drowsiness so I may experiment with one more sleep cycle, perhaps bad judgement, but we'll see, as I'll have the house to myself so it will be totally quiet.   That's fairly rare so I may risk it.     I've been feeling depe wells of drowsiness at bed time, like how taking melatonin feels, so I think my body is really getting in to the rhythm of the new schedule, yay!

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## fogelbise

> I've been feeling depe wells of drowsiness at bed time, like how taking melatonin feels, so I think my body is really getting in to the rhythm of the new schedule, yay!



That has to feel good!  :smiley: 





> And the location experience of 2 nights ago was revelatory: it wasn't *where* I was that made me lucid [consciously at least], but realizing that paths that I had thought were open to me before were now closed, and that I did not know the way back to where I started.



On this post before last of yours...I was thinking about your post when I was reviewing my dream signs yesterday. One of my minor dream signs I have noted has been losing my way or taking a wrong turn. In my cult compound/Chase Bank security fighting lucid I had actually found my way back to where I was originally heading and I found my way just before I became lucid. Not sure if that had any part in becoming lucid, but I have been retracing my steps in the sort of classic "how did I get here" RC.

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## FryingMan

Hmm several days now with fairly "blah" dreams, no vivid long recall, I wonder why?   Do "lucid dreaming" batteries need to be recharged sometimes?  I haven't changed my schedule, everything's the same, yet it seems I'm back (temporarily I'm sure) to "zombie-like" dreaming for several nights.   Not waking up, sleeping fairly well, maintaining the schedule, which is good, because I like getting up and feeling fairly well rested in the morning.    I have started setting intention to wake up after dreams because I'm now almost sleeping through all the way to get-up time, which I think is not good for dreaming and LDing.  A little waking around 5th-6th hour to grab some awareness, say some mantras, and head back to sleep are good for LDing I'm sure.    I'm loathe to use an alarm (and can't really unless I try the vibrate alarm under my pillow or something).   Hrm.    

Why does recall come and go?
What causes the ebb and flow?
Tell me for I'd like to know!

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## fogelbise

> Hmm several days now with fairly "blah" dreams, no vivid long recall, I wonder why?   Do "lucid dreaming" batteries need to be recharged sometimes?
> 
> Why does recall come and go?
> What causes the ebb and flow?
> Tell me for I'd like to know!



Practicing for the March Hare TOTM with that nice bit of poetry? I do like.  :smiley:  I have wondered the same. Perhaps our brains and bodies do need to recharge and just get nothing but ordinary restful sleep in between...at least until we learn how to get both.

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## FryingMan

::banana::   LD #27  ::banana::  LD #28  ::banana:: 

Yes, gentle reader, the Firsts are Flying Fast and Furiously!   

 First time 2 lucids in one night! First time meeting a monthly LD goal!  6/6 woohoo

This is great, I prefer to go out of the competition with a bang rather than a fizzle.

And I almost forgot Ld #27 due to another tricksy false awakening (Baggins!  Shire! What has it minor summoned into its pocketses, precious!?) to my "alarm" (not my real alarm ringtone!) where I did in fact start battling empty-handed with an Orc holding a sword, and I managed to disarm it, and, .... How could I have missed that?

edit: Tried to cash in more on the great night with going back to bed after breakfast duty.   It wasn't too late, and I didn't sleep into the afternoon (just until about 10:50), and I had been awake for some while in the late morning so it was catching up on sleep.   Nothing lucid however: usual sort of vague after 8 hours dreams.    Except in one there was a lot of "grown up activity" going on, nice...

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## fogelbise

::thumbup::   ::thumbup::   ::thumbup:: 

Awesome progress, achievements and firsts FryingMan!!  ::D: 

I am so happy to see you making all of this very significant progress!

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## FryingMan

::banana::   ::banana::   ::banana::  LD #29

Fitful sleep night by choice, hoping to induce lucids.  Way too awake / excited, ended up just not sleeping enough.   Did manage to get to sleep once in late morning and got lucid.   Peak awareness I think is earlier than 8 hours for me, around 5th-7th hours, so this is pretty good that  I got lucid at all around the 8th hour.     

The dream was funny: 

*Spoiler* for _lucid_: 



in some random supermarket, I'm trying to get in but the line at the checkout-stand is full of people and they're also blocking the very narrow entrance to the store.  I'm trying to slowly push my empty shopping cart through, I think I touch some kid lightly with it, the mother angrily pushes my cart (and thus me) backwards.   I'm frustrated but I'm just sort of standing there stupidly wanting for an opening.   People behind me are starting to say "let me through" and there's a guy standing close by me on my right wondering aloud "what's that guy [me] doing?"   I answer him directly "I'm trying to get in to the store but the people in line are blocking me!".  I eventually get through and some annoying little boy does something on my back with his hand, and I quickly push my back hard against the wall trapping his hand and I hope I've hurt some of his fingers to teach him a lesson.   I'm then walking into the store and it's become a outdoor area.   There are two CGs dancing together turning in a circle around each other.  "I'm dreaming!" I think by reflex, and then "..yes, I AM dreaming and I'm lucid.  I grab the face of one of the girls and turn her head up and to the left between by hands to look into my face.    Her eyes are looking up into mine (deep brown eyes) and she looks a bit surprised.  "What's your name?" I ask.   I don't wait for an answer (there is none).  Then I give her a few quick kisses.  I think I should engage with the dream scene but then I wake up" 




And a non-lucid where I spend time talking with a store clerk DC about the store location and routes and paths and other store locations and the names of streets.

Firsts:
First calendar month with 7 LDsFirst time exceeding monthly LD goals (7/6)Highest LD frequency in 10 days: 7/10Most # of points in a competition (beating last comp, which was one week longer than this one!)Most # of LDs in a competition (7, last time 6)(maybe, if nobody else below me gets a huge night tonight) First time in comp upper league, and I finish in the top half.  At least, will be in the middle most likely.

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## fogelbise

Congrats on #29,all the firsts and on a solid competition in the upper league!  ::D: 

I get grocery & convenience stores fairly frequently and consider it one of my minor dreams signs as well as people trying to get in front of me in line. Perhaps it is also a universally common dream sign or scenario. Losing my way is another one and that got me lucid last night along with the common feeling of not being able to make much progress forward, these may be similar to your progress into the store and your path being blocked in the LD above.

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## FryingMan

Well I can't edit my message now but I did in fact finish in the upper half of the upper league!   Woohoo.

Generally good night of sleep last night, lots of dreams, with only fragmented recall though.   Actually one batch of dreams with better recall and vivid visuals around 5th-6th hour, which is shaping up it seems to be my sweet spot.    Slept more after that, up to about 9th hour and had better recall for that time than usual but still fragmented and low awareness.

Also very interesting: soon after recently noting on DV that I've been swimming for months now without a single swimming dream, I've had 4 dreams about either being at the pool swimming, or out in rough-ish water/waves outside.   The mind's a strange thing.

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## FryingMan

Very deep sleep 4 nights in a row now...not waking up in the middle of the night generally, and if I do, I get right back to sleep.   On the one hand I like this, but on the other hand, in-dream awareness not reaching LD levels, and recall is fragmented.  Some very detailed memories, but only for short moments.   I know the dreams were long and involved, but I just remember a few snippets of them.

And for dream residue, why does my SC need to choose my cat biting me rather than the CGs I see during the day?!   Hmm well actually fair enough  I did get both now that I think about it, but the cat dream-incident was much more vivid  :Sad: .

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## fogelbise

Have you taken the foot off of the gas a little? I must admit that I have since the competition ended.

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## FryingMan

^^ Well I kept up the day work mostly, not quite at competition peak levels, true, but like I said I've just been sleeping deeply.  I haven't pushed hard to wake up in the middle of the night so I guess that could be considered as letting up on the gas a little.    I drank about 1/2 liter of water right at bedtime last night to help with waking including setting strong intention to wake up after every dream.   I did wake up, but I think mostly because my wife was coming to bed super late.   It takes a LOT of water to get me out of bed, I've sort of trained myself over the years to go back to sleep with a full bladder.  Morning can be a bit of an urgent race, however  :smiley: .

Wife and one son took off for a short trip this morning, so of course we were up very late getting them ready, and they were up early to head out.   So I got effectively a nice long WBTB, and I tried a formal WILD attempt with the totally quiet room after they'd left, which I hadn't done in a while.   I aimed for sleep with the mantra, and did fall asleep (yay, way better than staying up for hours with no dreaming) after a while of that, and had some dreams with much more self-awareness than the dreams since the comp.   Knew who I was, talked to people whom I knew from WL.    Invited a few CGs to engage but curiously none did (dang, missed a KILD or two I think), just not enough awareness (or bravado) to dive in anyway.   I didn't note my back to bed time and realized this while half-way through WILD relaxation, but I didn't want to start all over so I'll just have to approximate.  It's not that important, but I did want to put a time limit on the dive attempt.

I've noticed that when my dreams are closer to lucidity there's less super bizarrre stuff going on, they're mostly me, generally with knowledge of who I am, walking around interacting with people like in waking life (but with a few small  twists like, "oh look at this big hill here, I could just take off and fly down there"), and that's what I had most of this morning after BTB, which is a good sign of heading back to the lucidity zone.

I woke up with a LOT of recall and had trouble holding it all before I could record.   Lost a bunch of detail I know, but I got down a number of different scenes at least.   And it was over a couple of wakings.   Was just a bit too lazy to reach for the recorder at the peak memory times, the competition really helps with those little pushes.  So I had to hold on to several waking's worth of dreams all at once and inevitably they all suffered.

I have two nights coming up with solo bed so I will really "step on the gas" for waking after dreams and trying a few more WILDs.

I may also try for a nap during the day to reduce the super deep drowsiness at night time.

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## FryingMan

^^ I did take that nap and wow I had some fun dreams (all non-lucid)!   I need to nap more often!  Head hit the pillow and I was out like a light, 4pm to 5:50pm (alarm set for 6pm) very unexpected I thought I'd be tossing and turning for a long time.   I may be undersleeping now with my level of exercise....interesting thought, more dream opportunities!

Including a great flying dream, followed by a dream of me talking to my kids saying "what a great flying dream I'd just had, but boy, I missed all the signs for lucidity, including the buildings where the lights were out strangely..." and I was composing a DJ entry for that dream ... in a dream!

Feeling close to another LD, the awareness levels are on the rise!   Tonight, baby!   Also a formal WILD attempt tonight if I can wake myself up at the right time.

edit: yes not being able to make progress forward in a crowd has come up a number of times.

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## fogelbise

> It takes a LOT of water to get me out of bed, I've sort of trained myself over the years to go back to sleep with a full bladder.



This seems helpful for DEILD.





> Feeling close to another LD, the awareness levels are on the rise!



Very nice! It is coming, one way or another!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Thank you, Foggy, your predictions have never failed me!    Lucid tonight, woohoo!   Enough with the boring work dreams!   (Although the waffle was nice, and the episode with Boom Boom and the live grenade was amusing)

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## FryingMan

Hmmm.    Well a week + 1 day now.   I feel completely recovered from the competition, yet no lucids.   I'm continuing to sleep deeply for the most part, and long if I let myself.

Last night I had a long nightmare (at least 5-10 solid nightmare-y minutes) and didn't  get lucid, that's the first time in my LD practice a nightmare didn't jolt me lucid.   Maybe because it was with normal people pursuing and terrorizing me instead of "creepy eyed" family members.  I kept running and running and they stayed right with me.   They even gave me a baseball bat sized zucchini to hold them at bay.

And missed a KILD.    And the college kids were running the "sex in a box" club.   And the stupid dishes kept falling down from the high shelf no matter what I did.   Man, I really must do something about missing all these signs.  Hmmm...

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## fogelbise

That next LD is still waiting in the wings for you my friend.  :smiley:  Perhaps the awareness timing was not synchronized with the dream signs in those "misses." You got this!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Weird-ish night.   A bit off schedule, 00:30 bedtime, an hour late, out of bed at 09:30, after trying to get back to sleep from 07:30, almost made it but not quite, too light too much noise, too uncomfortable, I *did* however make it back to sleep at 06:30 after waking with only vague recall, not even a fragment, was kind of miffed by that.   Did dream in that hour, should have gotten lucid, ah well.  Being chased dream, couple of false awakenings in some indoor location, standing outside with family my fingers kept getting caught in the hair of the woman standing right next to us, it was some sort of strange flirting situation but I didn't engage ("wife" was right there), woman eventually gave up and lay down with her friends muttering something about "missed opportunities."   Trying to find my water bottle amongst tons of water bottles, trying to read the initials written on the bottle and determine if they were mine, I saw the letters fairly clearly but couldn't quite read them.

These long dry periods are annoying.   Thought I had hit the big time again, only to go dry as soon as the competition ended.   I'm going to need to cultivate some sort of "always competing" mindset I guess.

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## FryingMan

Kind of lucid moment last night, not really worth counting perhaps, at some strange moment where I was looking at some device that had broken open and a voice/being was telling me that our entire purpose of being was now ruined.   Then my older son leans his head into the room and asks me what I'm doing.   I think this is just like a FA I had the other day where my son leans his head into the room after I know he'd left for an overnight trip, think I may be dreaming and do a nose pinch and it indicates dream but the feeling is weird, like I'm already half awake,  I'm hovering between sleep and dream and trying to do another nose pinch with dream hands and think if I get back to sleep I'll lucid dream.

Other than that  a number of wakings with spontaneous recall, dreams mostly "normal" stuff indicating closer to lucidity.  Two grocery stores, one water slide where they turned off the water on me half-way down, and one conversation with wife telling me about how I must present myself to the judge to explain my over-limit credit cards at 7:30pm, and us discussing in detail just what the conditions were that led to this situation.

I felt pretty wide awake at bed-time (which despite my best efforts was an hour late because of my wife's late Skype call with a friend), so popped a 1mg melatonin, love that stuff, out like a light soon after that.   Haven't needed it generally of late but with some recent job stress to-sleeps have been slower a couple of recent nights.   I did think though that the bedtime alertness was a good sign for dreaming and the recall was pretty good last night and had a bunch of WL memories represented, and I was me.   Generally a good sign that lucidity is close again.

edit: was feeling a bit underslept so went for a nap from 10 to noon, slow to sleep but did sleep (on my back which is odd since I never sleep on my back).  I did the "metronome breathing" which I just read about on reddit (synchronize breathing to heartbeat), it seemed to help get to a relaxed state where I felt rocking but couldn't go deeper [for WILD], but eventually slept.  

Strange unaware dreams (like usual), where I'm: 1) playing with a creepy faced baby, I realize it can turn its face to sound so I move my head back and forth quickly from left to right making sounds which makes it laugh).  2) playing an interesting tune on a guitar, I see the fret up close, and my finger playing the tune on the strings, I'm doing all sorts of effects like hammer ons, bends and glissandos, it sounds awesome I think  :smiley: .  3) I'm with a group of people leaving a restaurant including a very large woman.

----------


## FryingMan

p.s. I have a feeling I know who's going to be first in line for "Lucy"  :smiley:

----------


## fogelbise

> p.s. I have a feeling I know who's going to be first in line for "Lucy"



Lucy?

----------


## FryingMan

You mean you haven't seen this yet?   Dude you're in for a treat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVt32qoyhi0

Not only is it Scarlett-tastic, it looks to be lucid dream incubation heaven!

----------


## fogelbise

> You mean you haven't seen this yet?   Dude you're in for a treat:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVt32qoyhi0
> 
> Not only is it Scarlett-tastic, it looks to be lucid dream incubation heaven!



Awesome!! At first I was like "why is FryingMan showing me a clip of Scarlett getting abused?", and then revenge time! And it is lucid dream-like powers and the whole idea of her ever-expanding knowledgebase sounds like it was written by a lucid dreamer! I hadn't seen or heard anything about it yet. It looks like it will be out this summer.

----------


## FryingMan

Well, LD #30, not terribly excited because it was short and very low lucidity, but it did involve a CG  :smiley:    But lucid is lucid may it be the harbinger of more to come.    Well it does deserve a first I guess:

+ first time getting lucid, losing lucidity [waking up?], and getting lucidity back again with a common element (the same CG).

Basically, noticed a CG standing right next to me in a tight black top/sweater, got lucid, grabbed her, dream ended/transitioned.  I'm then standing in a restaurant with people around, notice same CG again in same black top, get lucid, go to her, say "We have unfinished business!" and grab her again, again dream ends.....

Definitely low lucidity, just "cave man me" there  ::D: .

I had the impression of another lucid moment in a large white hall (anti-void?) but was so short and unsure so I won't count it.

----------


## FryingMan

So I'm truly located in my lucid hideout now, it's been around 5-6 months since I've been here.   First night I practically got hypothermia since it takes about a day for the stove to drive out the winter chill, and we arrived super late, so only a fragment of a fragment, basically no recall that first night.    Second night I broiled in my camping down sleeping blanket which I dug out from the garage since I got so cold the night before, but the stove had been running all day and it was +20C at bedtime in the house and it held to about +17C in the morning so partway through the night I took off practically everything except a simple blanket and was quite comfy.    Had some interesting fun and lightly lucid dreams as noted above.   The superman show sequence was really interesting and felt quite long but only lightly recalled unfortunately.    So sleep fitful as well last night since it got a bit stuffy in the heat.

So tonight's the charm: to bed on time soon, and a good solid night of (lucid!) dreaming coming my way.   Did that open beta day 1 thing a long time today on a nice long walk.

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on #30!! Good luck at your lucid hideout!

----------


## FryingMan

Catch every dream!   That's the new focus.   Don't want to miss any of them!     That's the focus of the awareness, I'm always questioning my state so I don't miss a single dream!    Awareness was sort of "just because" before, hoping to result in lucidity, waiting for the right conditions.   I feel this is a more active mindset, don't let a single dream get by.  Question: Who [am I with]?  What (am I doing)? Where (am I)?   

Slept long and deep last night, couple late morning wakings with recall, remembered some dreams across at least one waking.   And I had a 2 hour nap yesterday afternoon (no recall).   I was underslept on that morning, however.

Always on the lookout for dreams....ain't none gonna slip by me, soon!

----------


## FryingMan

Dreaming (non-lucid) continues.   It's good that recall is holding.  Mostly sleeping through the night.   Had a wakeful night (mostly from intent) 2 nights ago after an intense refocusing on day work.   Very stressful family situation threw my sleep off mid-week.   Some dream images are very clear and I suspect would be more vivid if I woke enough to do recall in the middle of the night.   Some very detailed sequences, not but as many as I'd like.

Focusing on brain and memory-enhancing foods and vitamins.

Had some awesome lucidspiration yesterday and really refocused my determination to master LDing.

----------


## FryingMan

Well LD #30 not withstanding (it was entirely unsatisfying), I'm mighty dry.   This is a disturbing trend.   Frequency is not accelerating despite lots and lots of day work.   Recall is OK but not at close-to-LD levels of awareness or length or even close to my recall of the first few months.   It must simply be that I'm not doing enough, or expecting enough, or am not positive enough, or not enough of <something>, or am doing things wrong, or maybe doing too much.    I'm mostly sleeping well, but not waking up much in the middle of the night.      One thing that has changed is that I'm not so excited any more about waking up in the middle of the night to do recall.   I wonder if that's enough to stall LDs?     Maybe I need to recapture that excitement.    I've had a healthy dose of stress recently but not enough I think to explain multi-week dry stretches.

I had my 7 LDs in 10 days during the last competition, where I also was not waking up much in the middle of the night, so not waking up alot didn't seem to hurt there.   Of course during the competition I had strong motivation, but I feel pretty darn motivated most of the time still.

I'm considering returning to 100% LaBerge, with prospective memory targets, and reflection/intention, and MILD.    Maybe doing ADA-style stuff just burns me out?    I don't feel tired by it, but maybe there's some invisible expectation/intention "muscle" that I'm overburdening?  

I may give the open beta thing another solid try, and get more systematic about dream yoga.    

Perhaps my goals are not strong or clear enough?

Oh and maybe I need to return to WILD attempts on a regular basis.   

And somehow figuring out how to restore waking in the middle of the night again.

----------


## Bharmo

I quite understand you FM, I was burnt out about ADA-style techniques... and I have to admit I never worked as hard as you are doing, good job!!
I'm now doing the bare minimums, which means I'm getting like two low quality LDs per month, but at least I don't feel so frustrated because I'm not investing much.
On the other hand, I sometimes check Hukif's DJ and wish I could have kept with the hard work of ADARC and get that crazy amount of LDs  :Thinking:

----------


## fogelbise

> One thing that has changed is that I'm not so excited any more about waking up in the middle of the night to do recall. I wonder if that's enough to stall LDs?...I had my 7 LDs in 10 days during the last competition, where I also was not waking up much in the middle of the night, so not waking up alot didn't seem to hurt there. Of course during the competition I had strong motivation, but I feel pretty darn motivated most of the time still.



I know a lot of this is talking/typing out the issues so that you can resolve them, but I will chime in and see if there is anything that strikes a chord with you. I know you can move past this! Recall is helpful but it sounds like you are still having good recall. Middle of the night recall does help heighten your awareness the rest of the night typically, but the competition results seem to point to another factor or combination of factors.





> Maybe I need to recapture that excitement. I've had a healthy dose of stress recently but not enough I think to explain multi-week dry stretches.



Based on what you are saying, stress is probably not the solitary factor, but it definitely doesn't help as you know. Perhaps recapturing the excitement is one factor. I think that was part of the reason I slacked on my daytime practices and got my dry streak...but it sounds like your daytime practices were kept up, so perhaps just the excitement level could have been a common factor between us and our dry spells.





> I'm considering returning to 100% LaBerge, with prospective memory targets, and reflection/intention, and MILD. Maybe doing ADA-style stuff just burns me out? I don't feel tired by it, but maybe there's some invisible expectation/intention "muscle" that I'm overburdening? 
> 
> I may give the open beta thing another solid try, and get more systematic about dream yoga.



I would definitely go with your gut on these items. I can see the overburdening playing a factor. I definitely think there have been useful exercises in the open beta thing (he just posted day 6 but I still need to read through it) and have no doubt about dream yoga (I just have no experience with dream yoga exactly).





> Perhaps my goals are not strong or clear enough?



I have always thought of you as someone who sets strong and clear goals.





> Oh and maybe I need to return to WILD attempts on a regular basis. 
> 
>  And somehow figuring out how to restore waking in the middle of the night again.



I think both of these will help a good deal in that they get your awareness going in the middle of the night but am reluctant to recommend this for you if you have trouble getting back to sleep.

----------


## FryingMan

Thanks for the advice!   Well as for strong and clear goals, I think I need to set more definitive short-terms and medium-terms, review them more frequently, and take more concrete action to achieve them.  "Lucid all night every night" I'm realizing will be a multiple year span of every day effort and attention (awareness!).    I can talk the good talk about my plans but I've really not been very systematic about actually *doing* them.    It's sort of like analysis paralysis:

Analysis Paralysis: Why choice is bad for you. | Board Game Meta-Blog | BoardGameGeek

so many techniques, so many exercises, which ones do you invest in?   I need to create a daily schedule I think to get myself organized (for both sleeping and waking activities).     At least always stick with the fundamentals, in that I'm pretty sure you can't go wrong.

Well at least I had a semi-epic non-lucid last night and in general lots and lots of dreaming, with many details just beyond recall's reach.    With awesome flying and spiders and wine and sailing and casinos.   Damn spiders didn't get me lucid though I was too busy trying to catch them and put them back into the bag.

In the past such nights have signalled lucidity is close so I'll take that as a good sign.    Kept waking awareness yesterday but more sporadic, and less intense.   I'll try dialling back the waking intensity for a while to see if that leaves more "energy" for dreaming.

edit: I've also turned down the intensity of my exercise.  I'm still getting it fairly regularly, but I'm not pushing myself so hard.   The super intense exercise wasn't helping with dreaming, but it was delivering very deep sleep.   But I suspect I was constantly under slept so that didn't help.   

Sleeping fairly well the past nights so that's good but need to return to more epic dreaming!

----------


## fogelbise

I think that you found a lot of great answers in your last post and especially agree with this:





> In the past such nights have signalled lucidity is close so I'll take that as a good sign. Kept waking awareness yesterday but more sporadic, and less intense. I'll try dialling back the waking intensity for a while to see if that leaves more "energy" for dreaming.



I think your next lucid is right around the corner my friend!

----------


## FryingMan

> I think that you found a lot of great answers in your last post and especially agree with this:
> 
> 
> 
> I think your next lucid is right around the corner my friend!



Your predictions have always come true, may it be so now!   And at least, recall is holding fairly steady.

Light, frequently interrupted sleep last night, set hourly alarms starting at 5 hrs (turned them off after several hit and was feeling tired) but lots and lots of dreams, which was sort of the point, but I think I prefer to sleep through to morning and recall fewer but  more high level awareness dreams than lots and lots of autopilot low/no-awareness dreams.   Tried some RILD (rhythmic WILD) but the timing never felt right and nothing came of it that I noticed.

----------


## FryingMan

Ew, bad night.  3 tiny dream moments recalled, a few seconds from each.   2 hours late to bed though so not too surprising.

Tried a brief nap late afternoon today, was feeling tired, and at one point I realized I was looking through my closed eyelids at a piece of paper with writing on it that I knew wasn't there.   I woke up immediately at that point, darn...

I gave ADA/RC-location about 5 months, and it has raised my general awareness quite a lot but it's just not bringing the lucids like I want.   So I'm going to continue on being continuously skeptical of my state during the day, telling myself "I'm dreaming," and doing Sivason's dream yoga exercises.

I may switch to ADA/RC gravity but I'm a bit leery of giving it my full attention.   Nose pinch works for me 100%, what I need is increased awareness and better / longer recall.   It may be a matter of physical conditions (consistent out of bed time, I'm pretty good now at to-bed time last night not withstanding).

My daily routine has me in the same places almost all the time and not around a lot of people.   I think I need to mix it up more and get out into the thronging masses into different places.

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## fogelbise

> Ew, bad night.  3 tiny dream moments recalled, a few seconds from each.   2 hours late to bed though so not too surprising.



Sounds like some of my recall. By the way, what is your process when you have all of the great recall?





> Tried a brief nap late afternoon today, was feeling tired, and at one point I realized I was looking through my closed eyelids at a piece of paper with writing on it that I knew wasn't there.   I woke up immediately at that point, darn...



Even if it was just HI, that sounds like good awareness.  :smiley: 





> I gave ADA/RC-location about 5 months, and it has raised my general awareness quite a lot but it's just not bringing the lucids like I want.   So I'm going to continue on being continuously skeptical of my state during the day, telling myself "I'm dreaming," and doing Sivason's dream yoga exercises.
> 
> I may switch to ADA/RC gravity but I'm a bit leery of giving it my full attention.   Nose pinch works for me 100%, what I need is increased awareness and better / longer recall.   It may be a matter of physical conditions (consistent out of bed time, I'm pretty good now at to-bed time last night not withstanding).



5 months seems like a good amount of time to see more significant results but I have never really done more than sample ADA/RC for short periods of time (breathing, gravity). Have you asked Hukif his thoughts? I definitely understand being leery though.

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## FryingMan

I'm going to count LDs #31 and #32 from last night!   ::banana:: 





> Sounds like some of my recall. By the way, what is your process when you have all of the great recall?



I wish I could put my great recall (when it's great, it's been several weeks now without it) in a can and sell it (and use it myself!).  It just comes to me, I just remember it.    Recently I have not had to ask my self "what was I dreaming about?" the dreams have been immediately on my mind upon waking (sign of close to lucidity I think).   But sometimes (even with the great recall) I need to remain still, and if it still doesn't come, I ask myself, "What was I just dreaming about?"   Then it usually just starts pouring in.    Once one scene is recalled that usually leads to a cascade of memories.   I keep going over the scenes again and again, 1) trying to remember them if I'm not going to physically journal immediately, and 2) hoping to trigger associations of previous scenes to keep going further and further back into the dream(s).   I examine the fleeting feelings and memories "on the tip of my tongue" hoping for them to materialize and solidify.    But in the really really epic nights, it's just fully "there" already.

Last night I drank a lot of water during the day and evening on purpose.  1) The brain works better when well hydrated, and 2) it helps to produce middle of the night wakings and (I think) awareness peaks.





> Even if it was just HI, that sounds like good awareness.



I had some very active HI this morning and I think actually the beginning of many dreams this morning like yesterday afternoon's nap mentioned above.  I had a period of quickly flashing color blobs that normally I only experience at bed time when extremely exhausted or sleep deprived.   Interesting night last night, see below.





> 5 months seems like a good amount of time to see more significant results but I have never really done more than sample ADA/RC for short periods of time (breathing, gravity). Have you asked Hukif his thoughts? I definitely understand being leery though.



And of course, on the day that I decide I've given ADA/RC-location enough of my time, I have a location-based lucid  :smiley: .

I have to say I'm feeling really motivated by Sivason's dream yoga.   I've been doing the diffuse vision and listening exercises and I think they're producing a change in awareness.  I realized the diffuse vision teaches how to "see" without reacting, without associating visual sense with physical eyes (at least that's my take on it).  I think this helps tremendously in converting freshly-forming dreams into solid dreams.

I had what I think was a brief LD like that.   I was dozing in bed lightly just noticing  the images starting to form and then fade repeatedly, staying relaxed and receptive, and at one point I found I was in a hospital.  "If I'm in a hospital, then a cute nurse will come through that door right now" I said/thought.  And right on cue a nurse opened and entered the room through the door (and turned to my right, didn't come towards me  :smiley:  and I felt a surge of excitement from my idea coming true and I woke up.  I think I'll count that one  :smiley: .

And last night I also suddenly found myself standing (on the ledge?) of a huge outdoor rectangular quarry in daytime.  I felt some imagined fear at first (animals?) but realized that 1) I don't know this place, and 2) immediately before this I was somewhere else so I must be dreaming.  Don't remember anything after that, I probably woke up.

Didn't record that until morning, almost forgot it, recalled it along with other dreams at later awakening.

So a nice night finally.    

Oh, also grabbed a girl from the back (she was clothed  :smiley: ), spun her around hoping for a CG, when her eyes looked into mine I kissed her and felt the familiar zip/zing (adrenaline?) and fade to awake.    Given another second it would have been lucid, very close.

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## fogelbise

Congratulations on the lucids FryingMan!!  ::D:  That dream yoga exercise seems interesting. What is the awareness feeling that it creates for you?

You are on the prowl!!  ::D:

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## FryingMan

#%*}*{*##%!!!!!!
Night full of fun/funny dreams, I very dutifully set each of them into memory and reviewed them from waking to waking, UNTIL THE LAST ONE when they all slipped away except the one I woke from, and the detail from that one degraded, too.  Must. Record. During.  The.  Night!!!

At least I finally remembered the (very brief) sexy-time.   and a new "DCs say the darnedest things" entry

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## FryingMan

LD 33, wow, bizarre dreams (fun!), took 33g of my sons's bodybuilding amino acid blend (@ 00:20), bedtime @ 00:45

06:00 nothing, no recall, disappointed.

07:40 alarm one dream, lots of dream signs, missed them, short, but kind of interesting

09:30 WOW some BIZARRE and wild & crazy dreams, *most excellent*, into and out of lucidity.   Very unusual for this late in the morning.    Residual effect from the AAB?   Does it work that long?   It must be as it was highly out of the ordinary for me at  that time.   I was pretty tired though still from the weekend.   REM rebound + AAB?   Does AAB cause REM suppression and rebound?

In case anybody wants to repeat, the mix I took is called "Up Your MASS"  :smiley: .

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## fogelbise

"Up Your MASS"...what a great name! Congrats again!!

----------


## FryingMan

Jet lag night #1: 

4 dreams scenes recalled, not bad considering the sleep deprivation of being awake about 29 hours.   Tried 50mg B6 after waking at 3am even at risk of not sleeping, I drifted comfortably for a very long time with a number of forming dreams that evaporated (or HI).   BTB at 4am after a snack.    Felt a WILD starting at one point with "waving arms" sensation but got excited and it subsided.    Just resolved to drift comfortably and not care about sleeping, eventually I woke and realized I had slept and dreamt a bit more.    Better I think than last time I started out on jet lag.  Didn't take melatonin since my bedtime was too early to take it.   May take it tonight.

2 scenes (and there was the memory of much more there but it elluded me) in first 8 hours, 2 scenes late morning after falling to bed again.    Girls gone wild in a pool, gotta love it.   Was just a bit too far away for a good view but it was still fun.

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## FryingMan

Can I have my dreams back now, please!?

I've had a handful of short dreams most nights, quite unsatisfying, nothing approaching heightened awareness at all.    Par for the jet-lagged course.   I'm adjusting, though.  I'm extremely tired most nights by 9-10pm and generally fully awake by 7am.   I'm stockpiling various supplements (amino acids [l-glutamine, l-aspartic acid, l-theanine], 5htp, b6), and will give them a proper try-out once I've returned from my trip and recovered (again) from the jet lag.   I'm trying them now but with basically zero results.

Tried a WILD last night around 5th hour but just fell asleep eventually.   The rhythmic approaches don't seem to work better for me than the mantra-based ones, but it will take more experimentation.

Oh, and I ordered a REMee.   Hope it arrives before I have to return.   I'm looking forward to trying it out and getting it configured.   I mostly plan to use it as a DEILD-inducer or only in nap mode after waking in the night.   My dreaming schedule though is pretty regular: most dreams between 5-7 hours, so I may try hitting that range right from bedtime.

I have high hopes for REMee.   I think people consider it a failure just because it takes effort to configure/use/personalize.   Sure, REM detection would be great.   But I look upon it as just a configurable timer-based light-flashing sleep mask device, and I hope that will end up working.   I've been training to notice lighting as an RC for a few months now in anticipation of some sort of light-based mask, so hopefully I'm ready for that as well.   It also may work as a recall enhancer to wake up in the middle of the night in a more gentle way that audio alarms.

I'll also try out the sleep cycle alarm app  to see if it works to map my sleep cycles.

----------


## FryingMan

Had some slightly more aware dreams (with some waking memories), short but clear/vivid memory of a few scenes.

I did the self-hypnosis text for lucid dreaming right before bed (the one StephL it using I think).   I may record this and just play it back for more thorough hypnosis (so I'm not trying to visualize and read at the same time).    Liked it, I may do the dream recall one as well.    I also did a lot of autosuggestion during the evening.   Felt very positive after that, really excited in fact.  Nothing lucid last night though.

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## FryingMan

w00t my REMee has shipped, let the games (and detailed sleep timing analysis) begin!   I RC now in response to any bright light and especially red lights, and have been for a while in anticipation of getting a LD sleep mask.

edit: Haha, driving at night is an exercise in continuous RCs, red lights EVERYWHERE  :smiley: .

----------


## fogelbise

> w00t my REMee has shipped, let the games (and detailed sleep timing analysis) begin!   I RC now in response to any bright light and especially red lights, and have been for a while in anticipation of getting a LD sleep mask.
> 
> edit: Haha, driving at night is an exercise in continuous RCs, red lights EVERYWHERE .



I look forward to hearing about it when you receive it! What RC do you use while driving?

----------


## FryingMan

> I look forward to hearing about it when you receive it! What RC do you use while driving?



For sleep masks you're supposed to be extremely aware of lighting and changes in lighting so that's what I've been working on for a few months now, adding to my routine.   Walk outside into bright light: RC, come upon some bright reflection: RC, etc..   Since the mask will be shining red lights in my eyes I'm especially making note of red lights around me, which when driving includes stoplights and the rear taillights of cars, which are of course *everywhere* at night.   Drove past a local business which had lots of internal red lighting (no, not that sort!) visible so I did a bunch of RCs in response, and so on.

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## FryingMan

OK LDs #34, 35:

00:00 Saturday 2014-05-03 LDs #34, #35, epic night full of vivid long dreams, many lucid-like - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Super sweet long vivid dreams, the "night felt long."   I even noticed twice in my dreams that I'd been dreaming for a long time as I got lucid.   #34 had waking life memory of dream yoga practice.    3mg melatonin at bedtime (even though I was already tired) hoping for REM rebound in 2nd half of night & vividness, and got vividness & length.

Next night (haven't written it up yet) 00:00 Sunday 5/4/2014, sense of very long dreams, memories of a few select scenes.   No supplements.

Last night: LD #36, TOTM:

00:00 Monday 2014-05-05 LD #36 Galantamine, TOTM - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Firsts:

+ first time TOTM in first week of the month
+ first time got a (somewhat) decent lucid with galantamine
+ first time recovering from the void
+ first time moving an object fully within my field of vision with TK (from floor to my hand).

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## fogelbise

34, 35, 36!!! Congrats FM!!  ::D:  For your next potential jet lag, don't forget your "sweet spot(s)" to get you back to where you are at and beyond!  :smiley:

----------


## FryingMan

> 34, 35, 36!!! Congrats FM!!  For your next potential jet lag, don't forget your "sweet spot(s)" to get you back to where you are at and beyond!



Thanks!   Hah, yeah, the sweet spot is @ 1.5 weeks...must just give it time.    REM rebound (if that's what it was) via melatonin at bedtime helped, but it probably it just a matter of getting sufficiently rested and getting some recall back.

Just getting lucid (and staying there) is still SUCH A TRIP.    "I'm dreaming!"   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only just now noticed that Scarlett's eyes are flashing!   RC time!

----------


## fogelbise

> Just getting lucid (and staying there) is still SUCH A TRIP.    "I'm dreaming!"   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I only just now noticed that Scarlett's eyes are flashing!   RC time!



So true!

I was wondering how many people catch that. I am hoping to trigger flashing eye dream signs, especially in Scarlett, but with anyone would do.

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## FryingMan

As close to "taking a night off" last night as it can get.   Still set intention to recall, still used remee.    Very interestingly, I woke at about 1.5-2 hours with 2 coherent scenes of recall, highly unusual as dreams that early usually are very "LSD trip"-like, very abstract and truly bizarre.  Well the 2nd scene of the dude stretching on the monkey bars was a bit unsettling actually.

One more waking at about 5.5 hrs, quick journal, then the next thing I know it's time to get up...  no supplements last night.

Just purchased ebook of "Are you dreaming?"  by Daniel Love, and am heading for mole (moh-LEH, not the little ground creature!) enchiladas and a virgin mojito or two and settling in for a long night of interesting reading!

May try Mugwort again tonight this time adding Wormwood & Gotu Kola, and try the tea at an early WBTB instead of at bedtime.  Maybe...

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## FryingMan

LD #37  ::banana:: 

WILD attempt, a bit shorter than previous night's WILD attempt, started on left side, turned to right, didn't feel like I was drifting off quickly enough so I jettisoned and turned on to my stomach (emergency position of last resort when both sides are uncomfortable) and had a very vivid, fairly long (several scenes recalled well, but there was so much more) dream that ended with a very high visual detail short DILD.   I was extremely disoriented towards  the end of the dream (awareness rising and being confused at the dream environment?) and the appearance of a tiny version of my old deceased beloved dog with the face of a pig gave me the jolt to realize I was dreaming.   I was astonished at the visual realism and just sort of stood there dumbfounded for a bit, then the dream woman DC to whom I was talking when I became lucid spoke to her young female assistant in the other room, and I decided I needed to go see her to show her my weird pig-faced tiny dog, and getting close to her ended the dream.  

I then  re-entered the dream non-lucidly and flew around DO a bit observing a big indoor facility, and ended up in a doctor's room with 2 other sick people and my wife who wanted to be looked at by the english speaking doctor (this was the english speaking room of a foreign country's hospital), and I thought I saw a ferret sleeping on a tray table but instead it was a piece of medical equipment covered in ants.

I awoke confused about the order of these dreams, and when I could have fallen asleep to have the second one.   I think I was awake only for an instant when waking from the LD and fell back into it right away (only non-lucid).

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## fogelbise

Congrats on #37 FM!! Your count is progressing quite nicely! I will send you a PM also.

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## StephL

FryingMan - I hope I do not intrude on you overly much, when I ask you, if you tried "helping yourself" in WBTB, maybe even twice?
You could go about having a non-sexual, wonderful adventure dream and actually get to_ do_ something else, and experiment.
I always feel you regret getting tangled up so soon. 
Once you are ready for eventually waking up - you can still run after women with cuddly, weird dogs in your arms, and try to look adorable!  ::wink::

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## FryingMan

All questions/suggestions are welcome, no need to be too "dainty"  :smiley: .    Sure, "releasing tension" is sometimes on the menu in WBTB, for one thing, to quell the stimulating daydreams that can keep one too awake.   Twice?    :smiley: .       Experimenting with and without is something else to try.    Oh yes I do regret it, always, because for me it always leads to waking in seconds, without fail.   I need to fix that, but first I just need to maintain LDs for a long time, that's my primary goal right now.

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## fogelbise

Too funny! I think everyone reacts differently to sex before a big LD, whether it involves more than one person or not! 

We have probably discussed similar ideas before but it might be helpful to review Steph's breakthrough and my recent breakthrough (though my LD length has been fine, I recently discovered that I can often extend them). Here are a few short posts:

My post:
http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/14763...ml#post2102125

Steph's experience:
http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...ml#post2102638
(also more in her workbook!)

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## FryingMan

Near LD this morning after being awake for 26 hours, in a new top-3 all-time best non-lucid sex dream.   Now begins the dreaded jet lag adjustment.    I seem to be waking naturally around 5 hours now which I'm happy with because it gives me a shot at WILD and practicing a lot of relaxation and experimenting with SSILD.

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## FryingMan

LD #39  ::banana:: 

Firsts:

+ LONGEST LD YET: 10-15 minutes lucid within a dreaming session running probably 30 minutes or more, late morning / last REM of the day.     FINALLY.   Yay, I can have long LDs, even near waking!

+ Nose pinch was ambiguous, so I had to do it a few times.   I was half-lying on my stomach (unusual position for me but it's turning in a great LDing position, usually only late morning once both hips are too sore from side-sleeping) with face "down" with right side of face against/off of the left edge of the pillow, and breathing may have been a bit harder in this position, also with remee on and it pinches my nose a bit making easy breathing a small bit harder.

+ lucid lightsaber!   Defending myself against an approaching hoard of animated orange glowing jack-o-lanterns.    I "wished" for a blue one.   Turned it on, unfortunately no realistic sound, and very weak/transparent beam.   But I did wave it back and forth across some annoying small being following me, felt a bit bad about that  :smiley: .

+ First time I don't remember every single detail of a LD.   It was quite low awareness, almost no memory, the only goal/waking thing  I remembered was the light saber and the car hyperdrive button, and only because I was put into a fighting situation.   Well I had enough awareness to know that I could walk through a glass door, and I did.   "There is no door," and headed right through, worked like a charm!   But then the jack-o-lanterns attacked  :smiley: .

+ funny summon fail.   Attempting to summon a beautiful blonde HG to a stool at an outdoor bar/restaurant at the counter, and instead saw 2 basketball-sized stuffed toys appear on the counter

I had some help getting lucid: I was the passenger in a car, and the driver drove right through a solid wall/fence.  Seeing the fence approaching, I thought "OMG he's going to drive through!"   We do go through I see the section of wall break away and we go through, I woop and cackle a bit crazily, and think this is crazy & dreamlike, and I do nose pinch, and I can breath a bit, pay it more attention, then decide I'm dreaming.

Then I hit the hyperdrive button in the car, as planned  :smiley: .   Waited a bit, then "turned it off" to see where we ended up.   Just noticed some bright/glowing blue and red things, nothing space-like.

Spent the rest of the time hunting for HGs and kissing a bunch of girls/ladies, none very satisfying or erotically exciting, but perhaps that helped keep my level of excitement down and in the dream longer.   Some ran away, one was critical of my technique  :smiley:  (she had a strangely protruding jaw/lower lip, went in for a 2nd kiss but after that moved on, wasn't to my taste).  

Woohoo I can kiss the ladies and stay in the dream!

BTW I was very polite.   After each kiss, while taking my leave and moving on, even when I found them unattractive or their looks morphed afterwards, I said "thank you."  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Love it! Congrats FryingMan!! And so soon after a long jet lag inducing flight!!

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## FryingMan

Long night again, lots of wakings, dreams, not continuous but each scene remembered fairly well, really tired at bed time, need to WBTB properly.   Kept dozing well into morning and would wake with "oh, another dream...." and would recall it.   I didn't record until morning but every waking I quickly ran through the growing list of dreams to keep it fresh, it seems to have mostly worked.

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## StephL

Great!!
Huge Congratulation!
I can't find a mention of the script in here - but since you posted this over at my workbook:





> I've read through this (hypnosis script) a few times at bedtime myself, and I like it, but I find that my reading distracts from the visualization and the relaxing a little bit, especially doing down the elevator.    So I'll try voice recording it and see how it goes.



Could you please tell me roughly when, and how many times you did that, and was it aloud and from a printout?
I nurse my confirmation bias here of course - but could it be, you are blessed with a gorgeous lucidity rate and quality again since only lately?
Would be really interesting for me - even if you don't see a connection - even if there is none!
Thank you!

And I agree - the visualization could be better, when only listening, but the text is designed to be read aloud ("I allow the sound of my own voice ..").

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## FryingMan

Thanks, StephL!   Hmm well I think it was 2-3 times, definitely at least twice, about 2 weeks ago.  I was reading from a tablet device.    I intend to keep doing it, I may record and listen at bedtime just so that I can listen without disturbing everybody.

As for why the uptick again in LDs, well, I've been really good with the day work, but the night work had slacked off a bit.  I was on a long business trip, which meant my sleep was disrupted a lot due to long (12 hours difference) jet lag.   I've done some more WILD attempts, never made it in though, but had DILDs afterwards sometimes.   I'm starting to notice a certain "feeling" that is hard to describe, a sort of different state where I just *know* that if I can fall asleep, I will have a lucid dream.   And more often than not this proves to be true.

So I've had a feeling for the last month or so that if my night work/sleeping would only catch up with my sense of increased awareness I'd start having LDs left and right.   I hope so!

And perhaps the self-hypnosis helped as well.    I'll keep it in the mix!

Oh and I'm sleeping with remee most nights now.   Nothing definitive but at the very least it provides a gentle waking at 4.5-5 hours leaving me in a great state for DEILD or a WILD attempt.

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## FryingMan

Not sure whether to celebrate or smack my head against the wall.

I had a number of fairly aware dreams last night, but didn't get lucid.

In one, I'm pretty sure I did a nose pinch, said "I'm dreaming", maybe even looked at my hands, but didn't get lucid.  Or, I got lucid but lost it immediately (didn't feel lucid though).  Two DC guys heard me say "I'm dreaming" and asked me if I could fly in my dreams, I said "yes!, watch this!" and jumped up about 20 feet in the air and hovered there for a while.

It's a great reminder to do RCs *mindfully*, always.    I may have been slipping in that regard a bit.

Fell asleep fast last night, probably still working on a deficit of sleep.

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## FryingMan

Dangit, bad night, I knew I dreamt, but only came out with one short fragment.  I hate nights like that.   Still a bit sick.

Bought some mugwort tincture, will see what affect it has tonight.

I'm doing that Zipplord47 (74?) self-hypnosis experiment thing, he calls for 21 days in a row of this "prep" track that sets the stage to "change your life with the power of self-hypnosis," I'm really starting to like that track, will see how it goes.

Day work generally still quite strong, but night work lacking.  Maybe still too tired / sick.

I'm wearing remee still almost every night most of the way through to morning.   It's hotter  and less comfortable than my regular sleep mask but I generally can sleep through to 5/6 hours with it on OK.   I've turned brightness up to 70% brightness and set it to go off every 15 minutes after 5 hours and I'm still not seeing lights in my dreams.   Guess it's time to try 100% brightness, and perhaps every 10 minutes after 4.5 hours.   I do see the lights when I'm already awake, but I never seem to see them immediately at the end of a dream (indicating that they woke me up), or in a dream.  

I had one dream with a monochrome orange-ish colored video game, and one dream where I saw candles, so those perhaps were remee-induced lighting effects.

Geez, I hope lighting signals work at all for me -- still looking forwards to the novadreamer2.   I still have a number of different remee signal patterns to try, I'm still with the original default ones.

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## fogelbise

This may be a long shot but since false awakenings can be so convincing at times, have you thought about making sure that you do a motionless RC each time you think you are seeing the lights awake?

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## FryingMan

It's a good point and I'll work on increased vigilance for any remee-notifications.   Just today I felt "awake" when I saw the lights and noted the color seemed clear/white rather than red, which I rationalized via thinking the mask had slipped a bit out of position, a missed opportunity perhaps.   I also at another time did an RC in response to the lights and it indicated awake.

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## FryingMan

Trying to get back to early morning wakings to recall and get in a WBTB.   Got some early morning recall today @ 4.5 hours, and I summoned the will to record.   Some fairly nice dreams including a room painted entirely bright electric blue, it was purty.   And I kissed a dog (the 4-legged variety as opposed to the 2-legged).   Haha!

Unfortunately it took a long time getting back to sleep, and later morning dreams were poorly recalled.   Snipers, basketball, some conflict.

To-bed times are all over the map, I really want to get them regular but family life situation prevents it.   I have a flexible work schedule so I'm thinking of living half the week during the summer out at "my lucid hideout" outside the city, I may do that because I  hate nights like last night.

I want to be able to combine WBTB with good sleep!

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## FryingMan

Getting kind of pissed off (again).   Going on 3 weeks (AGAIN) since last lucid.   These near-month breaks in between a handful of lucid dreams are such bummers.  Progress feel like it's at a snail's pace, if that.   I guess my last LD being my longest yet (despite low lucidity) is something to be happy about.   I don't feel any sort of frequency boost despite all my day work.

Dream recall is holding at OK levels but not great, for me at least.   Crap night last night, found the will to recall and record some 4.5 hr dreams, but then loooooong back to sleep, mostly bad fitful sleep afterwards, noisy snoring wife (despite earplugs), got too cold, etc.   That has sort of colored my mood for the day, I guess.

Wah wah wah, poor me.  There, that should get the whining off of my chest for a while.

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## fogelbise

You got this FM! Maybe it is one of those times where it helps to let up on the throttle a little. Either way, I bet you'll have another LD soon.

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## FryingMan

Well at least my dreaming is holding steady, this was a pretty good sequence with a near-epic finale:

00:00 Friday 2014-06-13 saved a no-recall night with a nap, near-epic alien invasion adventure - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## fogelbise

> Well at least my dreaming is holding steady, this was a pretty good sequence with a near-epic finale:
> 
> 00:00 Friday 2014-06-13 saved a no-recall night with a nap, near-epic alien invasion adventure - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views



Just read the DJ and I recommend it to anyone seeing this post...especially the alien invasion dream at the end. FryingMan's link above.

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## FryingMan

Another nice dreaming night, long dreams, memory a bit fragmented though.   Watched "Insidious" last night. I'm not a fan of horror movies or being scared, but I need to do *something* to break out of this dry spell, and nightmares seem to very reliably make me lucid, and I almost never have them now (a good think I suppose for LD training in general).

I'm heading out of the city today to my lucid hideout for 3 nights, hopefully the location change will bring on some lucidity!

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## FryingMan

Last 3 nights:

3 nights and 2 nights ago:  some dreams, recall not like I wanted.   Drank some during the evening (2-3 shots vodka, 0.5l beer).   Alcohol probably affected the dreaming.

last night: didn't drink, set strong intention to wake and recall, and I spent a very wakeful night (in and out of sleep), but tons of recall.   Nothing very long, but it included  a false lucid (possibly real but don't think so) that included some flying and  turning into (finishing with) a false OBE return to body (first ever, probably residue from Insidious).   Used MILD, SSILD, maybe a bit of trying WILD, but I always got back to sleep (yay).   Didn't record at every waking, many times felt no initial recall but it came when I asked "what was  I just dreaming about?"  Didn't feel rested until my final waking at about 10 hours.    Recorded at only 2 middle of the night moments, felt like I did more, but probably because I woke 5-6 times at least it seemed.

Several twilight zone moments (HUGE hair woman [6 feet diameter mushroom shaped hairdo], moving faster than possible in life) that I missed, in the dream I thought these were strange but didn't RC, darn.

About 16 scenes recalled, some just a moment, some longer than just a moment (30 seconds to a minute in some cases).   Will write up later today + previous 2 nights also.

Oh, and importantly: last 2 nights I did not wear remee.   I think my "nuclear" option (going off every 5 minutes) just gives me bad sleep, will have to adjust that down, but makes "hitting" much harder.   Probably only nap settings makes sense (in agreement with ~Dreamer~ there).

Here's the DJ entry for last night's epic long (# of scenes) dreaming:

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...rn-body-58433/

One of the most interesting moments:





> I find myself back on the deck where I flew from, my dad and a big group of people are all standing around my body, I realize I must have OBE'd when I flew off the deck, so I "fly" around the people and swoop/plunge back into my body and then once back in my body I sit up and say "here I am!"

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## fogelbise

> so I "fly" around the people and swoop/plunge back into my body and then once back in my body I sit up and say "here I am!"



Love it! hahaha! Congrats on a great recall night!! That bodes well for some lucids to come!!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Woke this morning from some very aware vivid dreams.  Unfortunately couldn't get back to sleep after recording (got soooooo close, including some dreamlets) due to bed partner snoring.   Man I'm missing some really great late morning dreams cuz of that I think.





> Love it! hahaha! Congrats on a great recall night!! That bodes well for some lucids to come!!



Hope so.    My final dream sequence of the day was close, lots of WL memories and people.    I have to convince myself that I like waking up that much, even if I don't like it, because the recall from all those wakings is amazing.

edit: here's the DJ
http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...d-dream-58455/

I'd forgotten already the first earlier morning dream, my voice notes were almost inaudible but enough to bring back a few fragments of memory of driving through tree-lined streets and entering a restaurant.  The big dream was all one sequence with different scenes, quite mundane and life-like situations but those generally signal lucidity is close.   The dream was very satisfying because I felt like me in it, I was thinking about things.   Finished up with a sort of strange DO of two gay men on a date.

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## FryingMan

I've decided to stop counting my LDs (but I just woke from #41 and #42, on the fumes of galantamine, heh, but who's counting  :smiley: ).

I'm focusing now on vigilance / mindfulness & self-awareness, Ctharlie's mindfulness thread has some really good stuff on it that clicks with me and what I'm doing (Memm has some great posts there, too).

Took 8mg galantamine and 300mg alpha-gpc at 4hrs last night, and (surprise, boo!) couldn't sleep.  Even took 1mg melatonin with the G, then 2mg more melatonin an hour later.  No sleep, not even close.  Got up and chatted on skype with Sensei, read some DV, then 1.5 hours later was feeling sleepy so I went back to bed, took some time to sleep because I was getting LOTS of dreamlets/HI.   Made it to sleep and YEE HAW I had a LD (sequence?) that must have been on the fumes of the G.   

Firsts:
 I teleported (failed, went to the void, but still was awesome 1/2 of a teleport) I *really* flew for quite a while over a city scape (for some reason I got stuck turning left, and even thought while flying how I should consult with people on DV about how to fix that) (that's how I got out of the void, by the way, by just taking a running superman-style leap, putting my "arms" out in front of me, and then the scenery appeared below me!) I "woke" from an FA in a fake house that I thought was mine (fake memory) so much that I just couldn't believe I was dreaming, even though nose pinch showed I was every time. got close to lucid sex, well actually I did start but lost the dream right at the good part transformed a DC right in front of me (cleared up the bad facial acne of my DC girl in the line above....I willed it away and POOF it just faded leaving clear skin!   Wow!)

Before the awesome dream I had a short LD where I don't remember much except that I was slowly spinning in a circle to stabilize, and started rubbing my hands, and "woke up in bed" rubbing my hands, convinced I was awake.    It may have been a FA, I thought I did a motionless RC but maybe I didn't.   Given the absolutely convincing fake memory and vividness of the long LD, it very well could have been a FA.    The "fakeout" dreams that galantamine gives can be really strong.

I have finally experienced what the lucids under galantamine can be like....and WOW!    Now all I need to do is get back to sleep within about 2 hours of taking it and IT'S PARTY TIME!

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## fogelbise

This is great! I am so happy for you FryingMan!! That was some significant progress!  ::D:  I will check out that thread.

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## FryingMan

:Bliss:   :Bliss:   :Bliss: 

OMFG.   OMG.    OMG.    A new all-time favorite top-3 LD.    





> In this one, I began by looking at a stable scene (I've found this is how many/most of my dreams begin: I find myself "standing still" observing a scene, and I start thinking about it, and then enter it) and my SC invented a funny backstory: that I was looking at the only photograph I had of my former home: it was of a lightbulb sitting on top of a long pole set in the ground, set against the backdrop of a pure blue sky, across the street from my former home (which was 'behind me').  So, I 'turned around', and found I had 'entered' into the scene of my photograph, and saw my former home there across the street.    I started walking towards it and realized I *must* be dreaming.  No nose pinch, I just *knew* it was a dream, while realizing I had no idea how I got here.    And proceeded to just walk around (and picked up a cute DC along the way) and looked at the sights.   It was mind-blowing.  It included some before-my-eyes transformations: like a wipe-transition in Star Wars, the houses I was looking at suddenly had way more details and decorations.  I could see on the left half the old version and on the right the decorated version (lots and lots of fancy lights and doo-dads hung all around the facade of the house) while the transformation took place.   Wow.



Vivid.  Oh, boy, vivid.  I noticed the granules of dirt on the ground in a quick glance down while on the threshold of entering my hold house.   Textures everywhere.   DC girl's face totally full detail and realistic.

Also did my signature "equipment check" (not dream-sized, alas, but I didn't dwell on that).   Also my behind-the-back CG DC summon "failed" in that she didn't take my hand and appear, but instead a female DC entered the scene walking (just like the previous dream).   


*Spoiler* for _adult interaction_: 



Also did a double-handed goose from outside her clothing, and was foiled by an industrial strength bra underneath, that thing felt like it was armor-plated or something, haha!    But later on I got in some really really nice kisses.....really nice.  I love those up-close dream girl face views, gorgeous brown eyes looking deeply up into mine.....oh man oh man....




I feel like my "LD practice reboot" is taking hold.   It's fabulous.    THIS, in addition to generally remembering dreams every night, makes the day work and under-slept nights all worthwhile.

Interesting note: I started outside in strong daylight, went inside (my old house) and returned again to outside.   I think that's a first.  My LDs tend to be indoors, so this is a refreshing novelty.

(And I'm still not counting my dreams any more, but this was #43)

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## fogelbise

Yes, yes!! You are on it! Great work FryingMan!!  ::D:  Tell me more about your "LD practice reboot" or where to find your details on it.

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## FryingMan

My reboot:  don't stress about LDing, affirmations that I'm an awesome lucid dreamer and that the lucids are right around the corner (even tonight!), continuous vigilance (at any time, I could be dreaming!  Keep a watch out for this), mindfulness.  Still frequent RCs but they're not the focus, the vigilance is.   Continuing with RRC.    ADA-"lite": notice the world around but don't go overboard and exhaust yourself.   You don't need to see the shadows caused by the hairs on the legs of every fly: just notice....more.   Enjoy!    And I've started a bit of considering myself from other's perspective in RRCs.  Stay positive about dreaming, love non-lucids, stop counting and stressing about counts.   I'm going to get much more into meditation.   Returning to waking during the night and recording and night-time practices (SSILD, MILD, WILD).

The vigilance stuff I think doesn't work for newbies.   I know I wasn't ready in the beginning.    I had to experience a thousand+ non-lucid dreams where I really really felt like I was experiencing waking life to internalize the point that really, truly, at *any* point where I think I'm awake, it in fact could be a dream.    After that, the motivation for vigilance is easy because you *know* it's true.

It seems to be paying off.   My last two lucids were miles ahead of most of my others.   Not necessarily the most aware of lucids, but they were just such mind-blowing awesome experiences, so bright and vivid and detailed.

On my reading list: Mindfulness In Plain English, and The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep.

This thread has a really eye-opening discussion on it as well as valuable links:

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...roach-ada.html

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## fogelbise

^^Excellent! This all sounds like great stuff for you to be doing and it is so great that you are getting the bright, vivid and detailed lucids!! I really feel like you have turned a corner! Keep up the good work and mindset and try to avoid becoming over-confident to the point that you stop doing what is working and go on coasting mode...that has backfired a number of times for me.

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## FryingMan

Got the 1st great lucid sequence of last week typed up.   It's like the lucidity went on forever...

00:00 Monday 2014-06-23 Epic LD sequence: teleport, fly out of void, false memory house - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## FryingMan

ah crap dreamviews ate my post, I forgot to save the text before clicking "post"

summary: saw your recent great successes over on StephL's workbook, what's your day and night practice like?

I had some sleep deprivation REM rebound running until late this morning (lots of dream periods), tons of scenes, but didn't convert any to lucids.

Met some new young friends over the weekend and introduced them to the wonderful world of lucid dreaming, starting with dream recall.  I entertained them with tales from my dream journal of this last year (the family-friendly ones).  I wish I had someone tell me about lucid dreaming a few decades ago!   I envy them their dream lives to come.

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## gab

Nice going FryingMan!

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## FryingMan

Fairly epic early morning long dream, non-lucid, wild/bizarre/wacky/random, but on a couple coherent themes:

00:00 Wednesday 2014-07-09 long bizarre early morning dream: "AED": fAtalistic Eternal Determinants - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

followed by insomnia (melatonin in the amounts of 3mg has that effect: the early night sleep is deep, I generally feel rested when I wake up even after just 4 hours or so), got up, watched some Friday Night Lights episodes, then returned to sleep.

I woke up from the REMee lights I think (they went off shortly after waking while working on cementing the long dream's recall) but didn't recognize them in a dream.

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## fogelbise

Sounds like you are having some very nice dreaming the last couple of nights and you and I are in agreement on the value of those!  :smiley: 





> summary: saw your recent great successes over on StephL's workbook, what's your day and night practice like?



I double checked her workbook to confirm if you were talking about me...sounds like it...if so: not doing enough really and it was quantity over quality so not "great" success but I guess the better quality lucids in the past have me a little spoiled...either way, I shouldn't "look a gift horse in the mouth." To answer your question, I have been doing longer WBTBs but I am convinced I need to shorten them closer to what I had been doing up until recently. The day practice I mentioned in her workbook was basically imagining my RC showing I'm dreaming and then practicing taking a moment to ground myself in the dream, soaking in my surroundings, before taking off flying or sexing right away.

I am realizing I didn't respond to your epic LD post here in the workbook on July 1st, but I did respond back then in your actual DJ entry.

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## FryingMan

I've been  wondereing where the imagery for the lightbulb on top of the long pole against a blue sky came from in my last LD.     Then I looked out the window at my desk and noticed...the tall streetlight lamp post with a light on top, against a blue sky....whoa....

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## fogelbise

> I've been  wondereing where the imagery for the lightbulb on top of the long pole against a blue sky came from in my last LD.     Then I looked out the window at my desk and noticed...the tall streetlight lamp post with a light on top, against a blue sky....whoa....



Very cool!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Well finally got lucid again.   Tremendously vivid dream environment at the beginning.   Rather poor LD unfortunately, rather short, about a minute I suppose, I was hurriedly walking through the scene (where was I going?), and felt somehow the need to erase all the DCs from the scene and did so by waving my hand across the view (abracadabra!), haha, at least that worked.  

Egads time to work on rehearsing getting lucid ritual again.

Dreams sort of randomish but interesting, I felt like me there, thinking & acting, not just responding/observing.

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## FryingMan

LD #44, OK guess I've started counting again.   I don't think that's going to hurt me, I have a patient non-stressed attitude about dreaming now.   Lucidity will come when it does.   For now I'm just enjoying my dream recall, work doing frequent but non-stressed day work (mindfulness / vigilance mostly -- at any time I could be dreaming).   Frequent repetition of "Dream alert!"   Read the self-hypnosis for sleep a few nights ago: I read the intro, read the lucid dreaming text, then read the dream recall text, then repeated the lucid dreaming text, then the "wake up."  

I also visualized a few times yesterday "tearing aside the fog" of non-lucidity, to become lucid in a dream.  I physically raised my hands and "ripped" apart the non-lucidity.

Will be starting the Zipplord47 self-hypnosis for LDing script soon, maybe tonight.

Some nice dreams where I'm "me", thinking and making decisions, not just observing.   That's a sign that lucidity is close, and guess what, yep it was!   Fairly late morning LD, probably around 7.5 hours.

00:00 Thursday 2014-07-17 LD #44, elevator mansion, bricks, tank, plane, CG musician/hooker - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## fogelbise

Congrats!! I also liked this idea:





> I also visualized a few times yesterday "tearing aside the fog" of non-lucidity, to become lucid in a dream. I physically raised my hands and "ripped" apart the non-lucidity.



Edit:just noticed this was my 1,000th post...you must feel so honored...haha.

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## FryingMan

:Bliss:   :Bliss:   :Bliss: 

LDs #45, #46.   Second ever double-LD night to put a better end to an otherwise mighty dry July.

Vivid clear dreams, first one took some convincing to realize I was dreaming, it was SO CLEAR and I felt *so there*.   SC was nice to me last night giving me some really strong hints: hint #1: wife's eyes changing color right in front of me, several times (missed this!), hint #2: poster with "dream" or "dreamer" written on it (caught it!).  Super quality, lost some lucidity due to realism and stability, got it back later.

2nd LD a successful exercise in willpower and stabilisation, held on for a good minute or more turning a waking moment into a full-blown LD.

DJ entry: 00:00 Friday 2014-07-25, LDs #45, #46, Gifts from the Subconscious - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Nice way to gear up for the competition, and now I'm feeling fairly confident that I may break 50 LDs before my 1 year anniversary!

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## fogelbise

Congrats on the double LDs FryingMan!!! The 2nd one sounded like it could have either been a WILD or an almost WILD! Either way, great job pulling through with the hand rub!!

Edit: 2 possible reasons for the changing eye color...Do you look into Scarlett's blinking eyes much in my sig? Were you wearing the Remee perhaps?

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## FryingMan

> Congrats on the double LDs FryingMan!!! The 2nd one sounded like it could have either been a WILD or an almost WILD! Either way, great job pulling through with the hand rub!!
> 
> Edit: 2 possible reasons for the changing eye color...Do you look into Scarlett's blinking eyes much in my sig? Were you wearing the Remee perhaps?



Thanks!   Second one was very late in the morning, and I don't remember any consciousness before it started, it could perhaps have been a start of dream DILD with immediate lucidity, yes it did sort of feel that way a bit.   Usually dreams that late are so unaware that I can barely recall them, so again a sort of practical victory managing to enter the dream lucidly and hold it for a while.

You know I thought later about your Scarlett image, maybe!   Although my wife's eyes iris color entirely changed, not just the pupil, it was pretty cool actually I was astonished in the dream.    Yes I was wearing remee, that is a possibility...

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## FryingMan

Ugh, terrible competition for me, worst so far in fact.   Maybe I'll try stuffing myself with melatonin at bedtime and set an alarm for 3.5-4 hours and chug some galantamine tonight and see if I can pull out a drugged LD point-fest.   So far no supplements at all during the competition other than the occasional 1-2mg melatonin at bedtime.    Tonight's the last night I can reasonably go for supplements (being able to sleep in), so we'll see.   My recall peak (including my two last LDs) definitely hit right before the start of the competition, too early, darn, and it's been generally in decline throughout the competition.

Got up this morning at 5.5 hrs for a quick bathroom, sat up in bed for about 1 minute, then BTB but 2 hours later got out of bed, unable to sleep.  Drat.  Had breakfast, read, and back to bed 4.5 hours after the waking, slow to sleep but eventually did sleep and had recalled a couple fragments and a couple dreams, including a nice (but strange) short kiss dream.

It's not quite time for my 1-year anniversary wrap-up, but this is the way I'm leaning at this point:

Since intense daytime practice doesn't seem to be doing it for me (getting me beyond a small handful of LDs/month at best), I'm going to back it off a bit.   Concentrate more on brain-building activities like music and language study.   I'll keep some day activities (SAT, mindfulness, gravity focus when walking), but won't have it be the focus of my entire day like it's been for a while now.    I've been spending way too much time on DV, which is taking time away from other activities, so I plan to reduce my presence mostly to just DJing.

Also now finally getting down to reading the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep (currently trying to get through all the introductory karma, prana, chakra, etc. stuff to make it to the practice portion, but I figure understanding the background is required to understand the practice).

Next on the list after that (maybe will start it simultaneously) will be Mindfulness in Plain English.   Both are available as free pdfs.    3 days in a row now I've done 10 minutes of mindfulness meditation during the afternoon, I intend to make it a daily practice and work up to  30 minutes, adding 5 minutes per week or so.      My focus on learning to fall back asleep, and all the WILD attempts and SSILD and relaxation have resulted in a pretty strong ability to concentrate and ignore the wandering mind, so the mindfulness meditation is not too hard or strange for me so far.

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## Nfri

> then BTB but 2 hours later got out of bed, unable to sleep.



I hate this!

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## ThreeCat

> Also now finally getting down to reading the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep (currently trying to get through all the introductory karma, prana, chakra, etc. stuff to make it to the practice portion, but I figure understanding the background is required to understand the practice).



Hey, Fryingman--you're reading one of my favorite books!  I actually skipped the introductory chapters and went straight to the practice, and later on circled back.  If you are new to Buddhism and the nature of dukkha, then the beginning is a good introduction but a little dense.  The practices can be understood easily enough and are available to everyone (as Wangyal mentions).  The thing about Buddhism is that you can read the same stuff twice, by two different authors (or the same author) and find some new bit that you missed before that now applies to your waking (and dream) life.

Also check out this, which is a summary of the daytime practice of dream yoga by B. Allan Wallace:  The Daytime Practices of Dream Yoga | Reality Sandwich

I would also check out Wallace's 13 episode podcast on lucid dreaming, dream yoga, and meditation available through Dharma Podcasts: https://www.upaya.org/2010/03/lucid-...-part-1-of-13/

One last thing: Wangyal mentions his method of meditation as eyes open and never blinking.  I could never get this down as it made my eyes burn horrendously and trickle water everywhere.  I like Bhante G's method in _Mindfulness in Plain English_ much better--focusing on breath.  I am guessing that lucid dreamers should spend some time meditating in open presence--simply being aware of all physical and non-physical phenomena as they manifest--but I find this much harder than focusing on one anchor, like the breath.  Good luck.

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## fogelbise

I will miss seeing you around here as much FryingMan! Do keep in contact! I wish you well on your new path and you know myself and others are here to help as needed!

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## FryingMan

ThreeCat, thanks for the references, they sound great, I'll check them out...
I recommend trying out sivason's dream yoga "diffuse vision" exercise, I've turned it into basically eyes-open meditation.  I do blink from time to time but I find it creates a wonderful mindful peaceful trance-like state that can be held for long periods of time.  I'll probably  continue doing that and the eyes-closed breath-focused mindfulness meditation as well.

Edit: btw I made it through to the start of the dream yoga practice section, going to start reading that today!  I found the intro mostly approachable, most terms are well explained except for a few like dualism  ::banana:: 

fogelbise, I'm not planning on vanishing, just focusing and hopefully wiping out some mental barriers and eliminating some viral negative expectation, working to maintain a totally positive attitude.

Anyway, still a week-ish away from my grand 1-year anniversary wrap-up.

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## fogelbise

Sounds good! By the way, thank you for introducing me to sivason's diffuse vision exercise. I probably should look into the full details of it but I got a lot from what you shared. I especially like it when I am standing outside looking down the street and I am amazed by all of the things I notice that I otherwise miss when looking at one thing at a time...looking at everything while looking at nothing! Very cool!

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## FryingMan

Well wouldn't you know it, lucid right after the competition.  I don't think it's the after-the-competition effect, my dreaming has been on a natural uptick in the last few days.  Just my luck that my dreaming lull exactly coincided with the competition.   I was observing some scene (on the computer) and realized I could enter it lucidly, and I did!   Just stood there, I heard a truck and decided it must be real sound so I did the sivason's trick and imagined it was a truck driving by on the street outside and I saw it drive by a second later, cool.

I'm discovering a pattern: if I wake around 6-7th hour, and drowsiness is low, back to sleep is a real battle, but if I persevere, the following dream cycle is phenomenal, like yesterday and today, today with some lucidity.  Dreaming is hard work!

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## fogelbise

Awesome awesome awesome!!! I am so happy that you broke that lull!!! I do feel that you are on to something with that pattern that you discovered! Great job FryingMan!!!  ::D:

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## FryingMan

:Bliss: 

Another double-header!  2LDs last night.  I read through the dream yoga practice section of "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" last night for the first time, getting very excited about it.  It's very familiar to many things we know from other sources.  In fact, it seems to describe just about everything we do: intention, WBTB, MILD, reflection/imagination.  They're serious about WBTB: dream yoga calls for waking every two hours!  

Anyway I did find myself awake at about 2.5 hours, got back to sleep and had an LD followed by a nld followed by a FA which I caught -- I was stuck in the bed at first but then I rolled out, and flew out through  my (closed and blinded) hotel room window (after one last nose pinch to make sure... I also made sure I started flying *before* hitting the window.) into an absolutely stunning vivid nighttime city scape.  Some power-speed flying.  Finished up with a bit of (flying!) caveman (of course) and for once I was thinking afterwards I should have abstained to remain longer in that awesome place.

Some firsts:

+ first caught FA where I'm still in bed when I realize I'm dreaming

+ first time stuck in bed in a FA

+ first time flying DC interaction

+ first time bit of lucid DC nudity (yes despite my caveman proclivity, DCs in lucids so far are all clothed)

And an interesting phenomenon: the lucids were pretty early, around 5 hours, and my late morning dreams were less aware.

Haha thought about competition points but remembered the comp was over.  Oh well!!

edit: only 1 LD to go to 1-year goal, I'm going to make it!

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## fogelbise

Congrats again!!! It's nice to see you posting firsts once again!! Good memory regarding the competition too!

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## Nfri

Good work with FA! Catching them is not easy bussines.  :smiley:  
It's interesting that at the end of the competition LDs come generously. Last night I went lucid as well and I was really excited about it in the morning and the feelings of happiness endured. It was 25 minutes lucid (no supplements or induction) ended up with not catched strange FA. :/





> They're serious about WBTB: dream yoga calls for waking every two hours!



 :Thinking:

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## FryingMan

:Bliss: 

Wow, 4 LDs in a night!  What a way to wrap up my first year of LD practice!  Still have 3 nights left so there may be some more on the way.  TOTM basic performed.  Galantamine assisted, and as usual very hard back to sleep, including a late morning back to sleep after getting up after a phone call, but I stubbornly held on just knowing I had a 4th Ld in me and had a fantastic 4th with lots of control


Tons of firsts:

+ first time in a cartoon LD land
+ first time experiencing strong gravity while lucid (roller-coaster bus)
+ first time see hands in progress of being rendered (super trippy, the [well, my] brain does form first then shading!)
+ first time summon bottle, then water to fill it
+ first time lucid drink (felt totally real)
+ first time pocket summon (ordered gum, felt coins and a wrapper, pulled out only coins and a crumpled wrapper)

DJ to come later

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## ThreeCat

Congrats, FryingMan!  Sounds like it was a hell of an adventure.  Looking forward to reading that DJ!

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## FryingMan

Here's the DJ:

00:00 Monday 2014-08-18 Home Run! 4 LDs: #50, 51, 52, 53 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## fogelbise

Dayum!! The adjustments to your practices seem to be paying excellent dividends!! Great work!!

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## FryingMan

I've only now started to reflect on the "how/why" of that night.  Having a strong important goal coming up may have played a key role (I wanted to hit 50 LDs by Friday), yes plus the new stuff I think.   Hey, you'll notice I performed dream-self-control!  Backed off from the ladies and stabilized and performed some other goals I've had for a while (before returning immediately to the ladies).   Man that bookstore was crowded with cuties, it was only a matter of time, but I held out for quite a while actually which is progress!

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## LukeSid

*[QUOTE=FryingMan;2109445]My reboot:  don't stress about LDing, affirmations that I'm an awesome lucid dreamer and that the lucids are right around the corner (even tonight!), continuous vigilance (at any time, I could be dreaming!  Keep a watch out for this), mindfulness.  Still frequent RCs but they're not the focus, the vigilance is.   Continuing with RRC.    ADA-"lite": notice the world around but don't go overboard and exhaust yourself.   You don't need to see the shadows caused by the hairs on the legs of every fly: just notice....more.   Enjoy!    And I've started a bit of considering myself from other's perspective in RRCs.  Stay positive about dreaming, love non-lucids, stop counting and stressing about counts.   I'm going to get much more into meditation.   Returning to waking during the night and recording and night-time practices (SSILD, MILD, WILD).

The vigilance stuff I think doesn't work for newbies.   I know I wasn't ready in the beginning.    I had to experience a thousand+ non-lucid dreams where I really really felt like I was experiencing waking life to internalize the point that really, truly, at *any* point where I think I'm awake, it in fact could be a dream.    After that, the motivation for vigilance is easy because you *know* it's true.

It seems to be paying off.   My last two lucids were miles ahead of most of my others.   Not necessarily the most aware of lucids, but they were just such mind-blowing awesome experiences, so bright and vivid and detailed.

On my reading list: Mindfulness In Plain English, and The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep.

This thread has a really eye-opening discussion on it as well as valuable links:
*
Excellent! IMO you're spot-on FM (and it answers a question I asked you on another post)

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## fogelbise

> I've only now started to reflect on the "how/why" of that night.  Having a strong important goal coming up may have played a key role (I wanted to hit 50 LDs by Friday), yes plus the new stuff I think.   Hey, you'll notice I performed dream-self-control!  Backed off from the ladies and stabilized and performed some other goals I've had for a while (before returning immediately to the ladies).   Man that bookstore was crowded with cuties, it was only a matter of time, but I held out for quite a while actually which is progress!



Good point! Your waking memory was obviously good with the dream-self-control and remembering a number of goals! I am very happy for you and what a way to blow past your anniversary goal!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Nice night of dreaming last night it turned out, but terrible for sleep as I had about 2-3 hours of insomnia.   I'm resetting my sleep schedule to be strict: to bed by 11, up by 9, which leaves some time for insomnia/WBTB and still to get 8 hours.   So that reset may have contributed.  I also took 1mg melatonin before bed to promote drowsiness (still took a while to fall asleep) which generally doesn't cause insomnia for me, maybe it was the strong intention setting I did.

Still, some fairly interesting dreams and decent detail recall (not everything of course), the girlfriend series was really jumbled and hard to untangle, it may or may not have been together with the puking party sequence.

And a quick lucid (KILD), of course there's no hope for me if  I get lucid in the middle of a good snog, but it was nice, and in the future maybe I'll build up the will to pull away and enjoy a "looking around" / goals LD.    One day!

00:00 Thursday 2014-08-21 LD #54 (KILD) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I think that makes a new calendar month best for me (8 LDs).   

Setting strong intention tonight, it would be great to get lucid (a multiple LD night even more awesome) on the eve of my first LD anniversary.

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## fogelbise

Sweet! Congrats on another KILD! 




> in the future maybe I'll build up the will to pull away and enjoy a "looking around" / goals LD



Some of my coolest LDs were when I slowed down and soaked in the dreamworld around me...that being said, the thing motivating me right now the most (not a lot of motivation right now) seems to be a rendezvous with Girl Friday.

Good luck on the eve of your anniversary!!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Wow, has it been one full year already?    It seems such a long time, and yet such a short time.     And so many dreams, counting a dream as a coherent set of scenes that I know "belong" together, I've recalled probably approaching 2000 dreams in this last year (average somewhere around 6 per night).   That's something that I'm really happy about!

On this day, August 22, 2013, I set intention for the first time to recall my dreams, and that very night I had some recall!   Little did I know what a roller-coaster ride I was entering!    The heady highs of lucid dreams, and high recall nights (16, 17 dreams in a night!), the depressing lows of no-recall nights (thankfully very very few of these, possibly countable on one hand), the frustrations of middle-of-the-night insomnia, and the confidence that came with teaching myself how to win most of those back-to-sleep battles.

I have a busy day so that's all for now, but I plan a longer message on the general forums later today or tomorrow.

Oh, and last night, I was ALMOST lucid, a semi-lucid moment where I transformed a not hot DC into a smoking hot topless blonde, thought to myself, "Oh, Yeah!" and dove on in.  I thought about holding the dream, then a distracting DC came along whom I wanted to avoid but she saw me and made some disparaging comments and we had a quick back-and-forth of comments 
*Spoiler* for _NSFW_: 



(all the while still with the HG's boob in my mouth haha)


, and I lost the semi-lucidity into some thoughts that spun off from that encounter.

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## fogelbise

Happy 1 year LD practice! I knew early on that you were here to stay and have enjoyed interacting with you of course. That semi-lucid sounded enjoyable!  ::D:

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## FryingMan

Thanks!     I probably won't do an "uber" 1-year summary post after all.   I pretty much said it all already.

Year 2 goals: eliminate dry spells, solidify day and night practice, keep regular sleep schedule, and get some real WILDs in!

In-dream practice: slow down, engage, try Dreamer's in-dream journaling/narrative, be suspicious of caveman desires as a sign of dwindling lucidity and re-slow-down and re-engage.   Also going to work on incubating meeting DV people in dreams.

Dream goals: really interact with DCs, visit Amber, get good at teleportation, lightsaber duels/fights with Sensei, control via pop-up menu, time-dilation (extend actual subjective length of the dream to days/weeks/months/beyond, not just via "jump"s), and, yes, get in some quality LD lovin'  ::D:

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## spd

Hey wanted to pop in and say grats on reaching your 1 year goal reading your workbook and StephL' gives me good motivation to attempt to catch up to you guys (lol) I'm usually on and off with LDing but I will try and stay more consistent and your progress over a year is certainly encouraging.

I hope many great LDing years come for us both!  :tongue2:

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## FryingMan

^^ Good to see you, and thanks for the note!  Never give up! (on LD practice), Never surrender! (on recall and getting back to sleep).

I had to dig *hard* this morning for any recall but I got a decent bunch of scenes that finally came to me.   I really had to go to the bathroom too, but I didn't let myself move any more to get up until I had the keywords well memorized for these scenes.   Lost lots more, I really want to remember *all* my dreams!

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## FryingMan

I'm probably going to mostly stop posting in this workbook other than really new/exciting developments, but this was a noteworthy night with 2 lucids within a long multi-waking  dream sequence centered around my previous (adult) home (with many missed WTF!? moments), and a bunch of other fairly weird and reasonably vivid dreams:

00:00 Tuesday 2014-08-26 LDs #56, 57, epic long multi-waking dream, bunch of shorter dreams after - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

That's 11 LDs this calendar month, blowing by my previous record of 7, woohoo!  And there's still the better part of a week left in the month.   So far August has featured 2 doubles and one quadruple LD nights!

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## FryingMan

Pardon my French, but HOLY SHIT 3 LDs last night, one DILD and two of what only could have been DEILDs immediately following.  DJ to come later.  It was a galantamine night and 12 hours in between bedtime and final waking, including 4 brutal hours of insomnia after the G.  My head feels like I've been playing intense chess all night long (which in effect I was!)

That's 5 in two days, 14 in the calendar month, doubling my previous monthly count!

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## fogelbise

Awesome!! You are on a roll! A permanent roll! Keep it up! Let me know when you post the DJ  ::D:

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## FryingMan

DJ's up!

Epic! Where's Sensei? Stunning outdoor scene, bed-eject to the slide (twice), LDs #58, 59, 60 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## FryingMan

Had some really fabulous dreaming last night including an all-time favorite LD.

00:00 Tuesday 2014-09-09 LD #62, TOTM-fest, shark park, baseball, work, argument - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

What I did: woke at about 6 hours, performed Dreamer's MILD (incubating and visualizing dream signs and preferred dreaming locations) and Zipplord47's self-hypnosis, and took 20 drops of wormwood tincture.

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## fogelbise

Awesome FM!! Congratulations!!  ::D:

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## FryingMan

I think I had my first honest-to-goodness WILD this morning:

00:00 Friday 2014-09-19 LD #65 (WILD!), lightsabers, looking for Sensei, Mexican road trip, music - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## fogelbise

That sounded like a great LD on so many levels! And to be your first real WILD - very impressive!  ::D: 
(I added additional comments to your DJ entry)

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## FryingMan

Couple of really dry nights, almost no-recall in one case, got sick of that and set strong intention at bedtime for dreams (recall, vivid, waking up after, being lucid).   The DJ is instructive also in detailing my thoughts during a back-to-sleep battle, so I thought I'd include it here.  Oh, and *lucid #68* where I did basic TOTM (open a pumpkin describe what's inside).

I swear I'd be getting lucid a lot more if I just got to bed at a decent time, that is still a big thing I'm battling.

00:00 Thursday 2014-10-09 LD #68, lots of dreams again, a number of vivid "I'm there" moments - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## fogelbise

Awesome FM! Congrats on the lucid and the good memory to do a task!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Huge night, long epic vivids, a semi-lucid:

00:00 Monday 2014-10-13 multi-epics: Sadistic Genie, Porn shoot, destroy villain, master class - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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## FryingMan

Well I'm speechless, and you who know me know what a thing that is for me.  I had a DEILD chain this morning of between 10 - 15 LDs.   Most short-ish, but the whole experience was probably 30 minutes or more.  And I just kept returning (in many cases to the same place!) again and again and again....it was mindblowing.

I ate and fought lucidly for the first time: an apple slice [it was crunchy and tart], a bit of milkshake [no taste or sensation really that I recall unfortunately], and sort of play-slaughtered a group of young (punks in my mind), the first time a DC in a lucid has ever challenged me or noticed me at all in fact without me first grabbing their attention.

Wow.

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## fogelbise

This is an achievement beyond words indeed!! Awesome FM!! Where can I order some of those diamond encrusted, 24k deild chains?  ::D:

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## Nfri

well done!

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## FryingMan

> This is an achievement beyond words indeed!! Awesome FM!! Where can I order some of those diamond encrusted, 24k deild chains?



I wrote up a list of all the things I could think of that played a role in this DEILD chain over on Sageous's "What Happened?" WILD thread.

DEILDs I think are a phenomenon of opportunity -- you just grab 'em when you can.    You can increase the odds by always remaining very calm at dream transitions/ends.   For beginners this is more challenging I think because LDs are soooo exciting for those first couple dozen.   Cultivating a very very calm mindset really helps -- just very lightly consider the dream and remain in the drowsiness.

I also had set very strong intention at bed time, and a very long sloooow back to sleep in the middle of the night (so had more tiredness and perhaps some REM rebound going later in the morning when my body is normally getting ready to get up for the day).   I was also thinking about dreaming all day long since the night before was a long night of epic non-lucids.

Note that I was doing dream activities that traditionally result in dream end/transitions for me.  I would much have preferred to remain in a single dream for 30 minutes than have 10-15 2-3 minute LDs.     But it was still really fun to keep returning to the same place over and over!

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## ThreeCat

That's a really awesome accomplishment, Fryingman.  I am trying to imagine a 15 DEILD chain and am having some difficulties.  And the fact that you remember a lot of them is awesome, too!  Keep it up, man.

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## FryingMan

The chain was awesome.   Conditions were just perfect for it: no distractions, just the right phase of sleep, I take some credit for staying sleepy/quiet and not moving and re-entering the dream repeatedly.  

Another interesting note: I'm recovering from an exhausting business trip which includes substantial jet lag (11-hours, just about the worst possible, almost exactly half a day), and am setting in to sort of a polyphasic sleep pattern: 3-4 hour nap, 5-6 hours sleep at "regular" bed time.   I've ended up dreaming rather vividly during the last several nap times, which can be as late las late afternoon/early evening.  I don't seem to dream as much during the "normal" night phase but since it's shorter that's not a surprise.   Maybe there's an ongoing perpetual REM deficit so that the long naps have more REM than usual?   Normally in occasional 1-2 hour naps I never recall dreams.

In the one I had just now I felt sleepy after having been up for about 4 hour after another too-short night-time sleep session, went to bed again around 10:30am and got up around 3pm.  But it took me at least an hour to fall asleep and it took me my full-strength "go to sleep" kung-fu continuous relaxation, which worked!   Had some pretty interesting, vivid dreams, too.

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## FryingMan

End of year "blog" update.   Had a very short but fun/funny/nice LD this morning after a massive massive massive loooooooooooong back to sleep battle spanning about 7 hours including a proper WBTB in the middle.    You have to be stubborn if you want to LD !     And being able to sleep in really helps.

I started the calendar year 2014 with a LD on January 1st, and now I'm leaving the year with a LD on December 31st.    Looking forward to a great banner year of LDing in 2015.

If anything, 2014 was a big lesson year that shows that effort yields results, and less effort yields less results.   Day work remained high during the year, but night work suffered a lot.    Went on a few spurts of "wake up after every dream", resulting in fantastic recall in some cases.

The other big thing in 2014 was getting into mindfulness.   I think this has raised dream awareness to a new level resulting in a rather remarkable serious of very vivid, "I'm there" non-lucids.

2014 ran hot and cold for me.    2015 I'm going to turn up the heat to try to make it all one long hot streak.

2015 will be the year of the breath, mindfulness, and meditation.    

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...1-ld-92-63194/

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## FryingMan

I always envied fogelbise his reliable "look at the weird night sky, get lucid" LDs.   I've had not a huge number but more than a few really really far out night skies with stars/ships swirling and dashing around like mad, but just stood there going "oooooo, shiny!"   Well I finally had a "OK, what's going on here" moment  with a fairly tame but still definitely WTF night sky, and got lucid, yay  :smiley: .   I was in a car, looking at stars/planet/things on the horizon, there were only a few strange objects (so it wasn't overwhelming) and it seemed to be like a strange eclipse of the moon, and said "OK, what's going on here?".  I pinched my nose to RC and I already knew I was dreaming because my nose felt wrong, insubstantial.   The moment I get lucid two of the objects get very bright and swoop a bit down to the left (in salute to my lucidity?).  I "stood up" through the roof of the car and called to the ships to come take me away.  They didn't, and I looked forwards in the direction of travel and saw only infinite empty featureless gray, then transitioned to a replay of an earlier scene and quickly lost lucidity.

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## Ctharlhie

^Your dream reminded me of the lyrics. Cool experience. My night skies are always mindblowing in LDs.

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## FryingMan

This may be my new favorite best night of dreaming yet.   Wow!   Either semi or low lucidity towards the end: I was bold and directing the plot via expectation, so at least probably low level lucid, but I never affirmed "I'm dreaming" so I'm not counting it.   But if all non-lucids could be like that then…. as Sageous says, some dreams are fine just the way they are.  And HOW!

stop-presses-what-night-not-lucid-who-cares-semi-least-fight-flight-sex-64314/

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## fogelbise

Quite a feat of recall and adventures packed into one night! Definitely a recommended read for what is possible!

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## FryingMan

I had another nice night last night culminating in a teeny lucid.   Boldness growing & occurring more in dreams, and I started realizing in the dream that I had missed some earlier lucidity opportunities, but the scenes continued to be so waking-life-like that I kept missing them.  In the end I saw a girl walk past me and thought "Quick, just RC!" and did a double-take when I could partially breathe, and got lucid and ran after here calling after her to come back to me.   She did eventually but I woke right away, it was already quite late in the morning.

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## FryingMan

In yet another seemingly bizarre coincidence of the calendar and numerology, I hit my first LD "century" today (100th lucid dream), exactly one year and six months to the day of the first day of my LD practice.

The getting lucid sequence was more interesting than the lucid part, which was either really short, or I entirely forgot it.  I think I just transitioned right away to a non-lucid.   I did, however, tell my lucid dream to a DC in great detail later on in another (non-lucid) dream.

edit: here's the DJ: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/fryi...ketball-64466/

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## fogelbise

And I see your count is now 101, congrats! I bet you will hit 200 in less than a year...or to keep some kind of numerology going maybe exactly 1 year or exactly 6 months possibly! Either way you are clearly on the lifetime achievement path like me!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Hit LD #eleventy-one (111).  It's an important age for a hobbit, and quite an interesting number.   The LD itself was mildly notable in that it was a fairly early dream, the lucidity was quite low but I definitely knew I was dreaming as I saw a guy who could retract his head entirely into his body.  I then fought him while jumping down the open space in the stairwell (descending stairs along square shaped wall, early dream sign)

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## FryingMan

LD #124, notable in that it marks the breakthrough of a month-long dry-spell, initially brought on by jet lag and traumatic waking life events (loss of a family member).

Very strange night last night: very light sleep, constant waking (we had an early morning appointment which we decided to skip at the last second), fairly vivid detailed recall as early as 3-4 hours, exhausted by around 8-9 hours from not having slept much at all, up for a bit, BTS victory via relaxation kung-fu for several solid sleep cycles, more dreams (some extremely vivid, totally "I am there" experiences), culminating with LD #124 which is shaping up to be one of my best LDs with good stability, excellent access to memory (performed my FULL lucid ritual), resisting DC temptations, and *just* as I was finishing up stabilizing by starting to give a cute DC a massage ("You're going to help me with my dream goals!" I told her.   She had only a _slightly_ horrified expression on her face, haha!), my wife made a sound while moving around the house and I woke instantly!!!! Argh!

I got lucid via an amusing/odd situation: I looked at the (analog) watch on my left wrist (I almost never wear a watch, and the few periods years ago when I did it was on my right wrist), and didn't recognize it, it was not the watch I expected to see, it had some odd features, that combined with a feeling of boldness to approach a girl and BOOM the lightbulb went off, and I instantly started in on my B.E. S.T.R.O.N.G. ritual with lots of hand rubbing.

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## FryingMan

July has been sort of a slow month recall-wise, terrible bed times leading to low recall, still: some great epics and some really bright if short lucids (and got my first ever advanced TOTM wings, these have eluded me until now).    Of note: back to back LDs #129 and #130 this morning, the *earliest* LDs ever at about 4 hours or even less.    #130 was a caught FA following the end/transition of #129.    Two "Opti-Men" ultra-multi-vitamins during the day (usually I just take one) may have had an effect, as did the big bowl of wheat-flake cereal with a banana right before bedtime.   Sleep was light all night long with a lot of wakings, not all that restful but lots of dreaming.   The LDs came after an earlier waking where I had to pee (big glass of water right before bed with just this intention).

#129 was also notable in that I got lucid while running and while nervous/concerned (I had left my luggage on the plane during an international connecting flight with little time left I was running to get it).  Normally I'm "standing still" when I get lucid -- though in #128 I did get lucid while in the middle of flying.

I'm keeping day awareness work high.  I'm almost never contiuously zoned out for long periods of time now.   I do RCs in the middle of conversations and interpersonal interactions more and more often.  I still want to get to daily meditation.   WBTB, timing, and sleep conditions are probably my biggest hurdles now to much more frequent LDs.

#129 was also interesting in that it was a sort of mild version of a "my life is ruined" situation which happens sometimes in dreams, and I think noticing this strong emotion was one thing that lead me to RC: I'm hopeful that this is the mindfulness work paying off.

Despite some low recall nights, 6 LDs and an advanced TOTM is actually pretty good so maybe the month hasn't been as slow as I originally thought.   Of course I want more!   Travelling vacation in August will be great I'm sure: travelling to a a new place, relaxing warm location, and no work for a couple of weeks will be great for dreaming I'm sure!

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## tblanco

go get it!!  I read those dreams this morning.  It's inspirational!

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## fogelbise

Congrats on the early in the night pair of LD's! You didn't mention back to sleep trouble after that early awakening…maybe that is a sweet spot for you in WBTB's (including appropriate amount of liquids before bed: milk in cereal plus your big glass of water before bed)? Congrats also on the advanced wings!

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## FryingMan

Thanks!   It was really early: 2-3 hours?    I can't imagine that's a great WBTB time for me.  And I rarely notice those really early wakings these days.   May have been a bit of REM rebound after 2 nights of getting only about 5-6 hours of sleep.    But yeah, recently I'm not having trouble getting back to sleep, but I think that's  symptom of being generally under-rested, which has led to a lot of poor (for me) recall nights.    And what am I doing staying up again, time for bed!

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## FryingMan

Short sweet little LD (#131) to start off August right.  I took 3mg of melatonin at bed time to set up REM rebound for a Galantamind, choline bitartrate, alpha-GPC "lucid party".   I expected the melatonin to knock me out but instead I woke frequently.   I was feeling so "hung over" that I decided to not take the supplements as I was starting to fear getting any sleep at all, since a frequent effect of a 3mg dosage of melatonin is insomnia after 5 hours of sleep.   It was hard getting back to sleep.   I couldn't decide between just getting up or trying to get back to sleep, and eventually decided "just to practice" relaxing and quieting my mind.   And sure enough, once I'd decided to do that and started it, I was asleep in a minute or so.

Before that tough waking I had a really unusual (for me) sequence, involving a nuclear bomb going off (hearing it, it was one of the loudest things I've ever "heard"), and several scenes that kept restarting in that same room but with different themes.

In the lucid, I'd been stuck in traffic in a major police stop and search event, but while they were ransacking all the cars around me they just ignored me so I decided to drive on.  There were no cars on the freeway but lots of people walking, an a walk-a-thon benefitting animals.   So I decided the cops had been stopping cars back there to prevent them from driving on the freeway so I got out of the car and it shrunk and I pushed it with a stick like a little kid's toy car, then I ended up in a cafe.

I'm writing this note here because it was an interesting way I got lucid: I found myself in a restaurant/cafe type place, standing at the sink in the middle of the room washing my hands, and I noticed a glitch (I thought there were two women sitting at the table against the wall to my left, and I looked there directly and I thought I caught the briefest glimpse of one just as she vanished, thought "That's different, there used to be another woman there just a second ago,"  and instantly said "I'm dreaming!" sort of as a reflex and not entirely believing it (at the time I felt totally, entirely awake, most of you will be familiar with that feeling).  I looked down and I was washing my hands and thought "I'll do a nose pinch as soon as I finish washing my hands."   Then, "NO!  Do the nose pinch now if you're dreaming it won't matter!" and I sort of started walking towards the girl at the table at the same time as I did the nose pinch (could breath easily) and asked her name and proposed an intimate encounter before waking up  :smiley: .

I've been working a lot on trying to notice the odd or out of place during day practice, so this was a welcome case of it happening in a dream!

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## tblanco

hmm.. that melatonin first galatamind later looks very iteresting... I'm going to try that for my next wbtb

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## FryingMan

TOTM Mega fest!   Wow what a night.  OK, ok, I'm sold, WBTB is an absolute requirement.

Full DJ entry, LD #133

This is what happens when the perfect storm comes together: day work, dream recall, night work (WBTB), intent, expectation.    Work on each diligently, and *then work to bring them together*.   Working to bring them together is just as important as developing each skill on its own.   This is why you stick with the practice even through the tough, dry times.   Because tough, dry times do not last forever, and sticking with it means your awareness is there waiting for you once you get the timing of wakings right and have good recall.

I will also add that this week I recently listened all the way through PercyLucid's audio MILD class (generously available from PercyLucid for free to DV members) and adopted his recommendations.    He has some great ideas in there, which may be new even to veteran MILDers/LDers.

Onwards, upwards, more!  "I will have lucid dreams TONIGHT, or VERY SOON!"

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## fogelbise

> This is what happens when the perfect storm comes together: day work, dream recall, night work (WBTB), intent, expectation.    Work on each diligently, and *then work to bring them together*.   Working to bring them together is just as important as developing each skill on its own.   This is why you stick with the practice even through the tough, dry times.   Because tough, dry times do not last forever, and sticking with it means your awareness is there waiting for you once you get the timing of wakings right and have good recall.



Brilliantly said! More concise and effective than how 
Daniel Love described the components of successful LDing. Congratulations FM!!

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## FryingMan

Thanks!    Timing is so important.   Got to bed on time last night.    Horrible BTS fail after WBTB (water-enhanced) @ 5 hrs.   So many things on my mind.   several hours at least.   But at least I knew I'd get lucid when I finally did fall asleep.     Had a (possibly fake, meaning I was maybe already dreaming about still falling asleep, but the lucidity was real) bed-tilting WILD, followed by a FA where I walked around and did "start my day" kind of stuff (getting a vacuum cleaner to clean up the dozen or so freaky beady-eyed spiders that had strung webs back and forth right above my bed!, talking to my friend who was playing a NSFW video game and wouldn't answer my question of what it was called) before getting lucid (first one I've had of those!).

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## fogelbise

> (first one I've had of those!).



First one of what? You get a fair share of spiders, don't you? Congrats on getting to lucidity again last night!

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## FryingMan

First "start your day 'normally' " FA -- felt sort of silly after getting lucid having "wasted" all that time after "getting up".

Spiders -- yeah, definitely, mild dream sign, which is why it "kicked in" eventually, realized it, and I got lucid.

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## FryingMan

I always spend tons of time trying to find my prior posts in competitions, so this is my attempt to put links to all my posts in one place.

Initial post, personal goals, 3-step tasks

Night #1: 8 (same link as night #2)
Night #2, LD#137: 23: post
Night #3: 2 (same link as night #4)
Night #4: 9 post
Night #5: 3.5 post
Night #6: 4.5 post
Night #7: 1 post
Night #8: 3.5 post
Night #9: 16.5 post
Night #10: 8.5 post
Night #11: 4 post
Night #12: 4 post
Night #13: 7.5 post
Night #14, LD#138: 17.5 post

comp total (counting DJ comments, +1): 113.5

Egads, that's my 2nd worst comp performance ever, even including my newbie comps.  Basically no dream control whatsoever.  Need to get excited about non-sexy goals that involve more teleporting, TK, flying, etc.

DJ comments: 4-5

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## FryingMan

Well my 2-year LD practice anniversary blew past half a week ago and I didn't even notice!   I'm busy taking tours, etc. on vacation.  I had a stomach flu for a day that threw me off  a bit, and 2 very late bed-times in a row that reduced dream recall almost to zero.    Early to bed last night brought the recall back with a vengeance (12 dreams, 5 fragments, and more before the WBTB that I forgot including some 1st cycle recall I think), several semi-lucids (one including demonstrating a nose pinch to friends, and I could breathe!  ARGH!).    

Had trouble returning to sleep after a WBTB and did "relaxing SSILD" (advance to the next sense/cycle with every exhale) which knocked me out pretty fast.   Maybe adding a mantra would make that a good WILD entry approach.

My frequency leaves something to be desired in my opinion: I average 1 LD in 5 days, but in practice they come in bunches with sometimes multi-week dry periods in between.

The beginning of August was very good for LDing, with a fabulous TOTM-bonus long multi-scene LD that included multiple saves, and a bunch of other LDs sprinkled around.

The thing is I *know* that I can have very frequent LDs.    The thing is just discovering how.   Recall I think I've solved (although more recall is always better), it's getting lucid on a much more frequent basis that is my sore point.

I think the key for me is sleep schedule and level of rest and finding just the right amount of day work intensity.  And night work intensity.  Well that's just about everything isn't it, haha!

I'm also trying now to eat better and lose some (a lot of) weight and return to regular exercise -- I hope that will also show positive results.

Dreaming remains a major part of my life and I'm so happy I discovered this fascinating hobby.    I just wish I'd run into it 30+ years ago.    Or maybe not, I'd probably be holed up in a (nice, dark, quiet) cave somewhere, heh.

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## tblanco

Dude. Fuckin A.

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## fogelbise

Congratulation (belated) on your 2 year anniversary of LD practice my friend!! (I know, convenience store workers/owners have cheapened the phrase "my friend" but I mean it in the original sense of the word of course). Sorry I have been so absent around here for days at a time but it is great to see you rocking on!

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## FryingMan

This was….amazing.    As the title says, a whole new level of dreaming.   4 LDs: DILD, DEILD, DEILD, + another DILD later.  The LDs were beautiful scenes, long, stable, vivid, basically like being there in a waking scenario.

2015-12-05 A New Level of Dreaming! (LDs #158, #159, #160, #161), TOTM basic I & II - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I have some notes for what I did differently last night  before bed in there.

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## fogelbise

So awesome FM!! I put more comments in your DJ. 

I recommend others reading this to check out his DJ entry!

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## FryingMan

Some great dreams last night: A particularly amazing bunch of fun & sexy dreams

I'm continuing daytime mindfulness/awareness work.  I've slacked off on it a bit recently, though.

Something I've just started doing is gesturing with my finger to "draw" out (on furniture, in the air) "LD" and say to myself, I'm a lucid dreamer.  Lucid dreaming.   I also write it in the snow when I go out.    This is to produce a very tactile physical feeling / visualization.  I also imagine seeing the letters "LD" floating in front of my eyes, on fire, and changing the colors: blue, yellow, green, red, etc.

I decided after a particularly dry holiday season that I've become a bit relaxed about lucidity.   I've raised its importance to me again, and I'm setting strong intention at bedtime and during the day for lucidity.

I've had good results, a string of LDs, about 5 in 9 days from the 11th through the 20th of January.

I feel like as long as I have good sleep, I *will* get lucid a lot.

I read through Jamie Alexanders ebooks (pamphlets really), "Lucid Dreaming on Command" and "Meditation for Lucid Dreaming."  He has an interesting approach that emphasizes a WILD-like approach: forget your physical body, focus your awareness in your head, continually go deeper, and let go.

I've taken his HI-awareness approach and tried it several nights, I think it serves to produce a dolphin-like All Night Awareness mindset.    I haven't got excellent sleep on it, but did kickstart my LDs again, so I think I'll stick with it or something similar.   It shows that my suspicion that I need more attentive night-work was correct.

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## FryingMan

I've had 4 or 5 amazing nights in a row it seems.  Every night full of either epics or many varied vivid, present, alternate-life-level dreaming.

Last night got ToTM: epic non-lucid, followed by a long string of late morning BTS dreams including a ToTM LD.

2015-02-15 LD#174 Tsunami/call; epic "Sand Castle" farm; mini-car; garden bees; waffle wrap; boy; - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

The epic is just in notes, there are many missing details.    As it is it's taken me about 3 hours to write down these last 3 night's outline of dreams.   (All from memory!).

From the previous two nights: 

2015-02-14 and -13: vivid, present, alternate life level dreams. Long nights, tons of detail - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

still in outline format.  Details waning a bit because of the delay in journaling.  I hope to fill in the details eventually.

I've decided on the 2016 goals: it's taken a while.   2016 will be the year of boosting reflection and perhaps re-emphasizing PM practice, and making lucidity an important goal.   Attention/awareness and recall are at good levels, I'll keep those going but switch the emphasis to lucidity and reflection for lucidity.

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## FryingMan

I just realized I've had 3 LDs in 3 days: 1 LD per night 3 days in a row, woohoo!

The improvement I think has been via: 1) conquering morning BTS (back to sleep); 2) inculcating strong desire to get lucid, that regular/frequent lucidity in dreams is an important goal of mine; and 3) concrete short-term goals to get lucid.   I set a goal 2 days ago of getting 10 more LDs before the end of February, and am 2 LDs / 2 nights so far.     I summarize 2) and 3) as "focus", a term Sageous recently used and I think hit the nail on the head. 

I also set a firm goal 1.5 weeks ago to get into top shape by the end of this year, including shedding all excess weight, so I'm eating a very healthy and rigorous diet of mostly home-prepared whole foods (I record absolutely everything I eat in myfitnesspal and conform to the calorie and exercise targets I established) with a caloric deficit every day.   I'm also drinking a ton of water (8+ glasses per day) and managed exercise almost every day as well.   At first I was concerned I was losing too fast, but the curve has already started leveling out so now the real work begins.

I've been regularly consuming nuts during the day (not much, they're very dense in calories, not more than 40g per day): walnuts and almonds to start with, then walnuts and pumpkin seeds.   Good omega-3's for the brain.  Also, taking fish oil supplements with more beneficial omega 3's.

I'm really excited, this focus on lucidity, together with my Attention, Reflection, Recall training seems to be the winning recipe.   Will keep it up and see how it goes!

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## FryingMan

This was a particularly nice LD last night: ultra clear and vivid, stable, and every bit of control I attempted worked perfectly.   Too bad I spent it all pursuing caveman :/.    

There was an unexpected and funny twist right at the end.

2016-02-21 LD#177; bowling, hunt, bikers, monsters, bar; room w/friends & sexy time, gollum attacks - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

p.s. post 4K!

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## Nfri

> Too bad I spent it all pursuing cavemam



I noticed that in my last year of lding practice I'm not intrested in sex at all, which is good, but I wonder what are the reasons...

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## FryingMan

Spellbee2's Spring Extravaganza Competition 2016

Night #1 (2016-04-11 00:00) 3D, 1F, 3.5 pts, night total: 3.5, comp total: 3.5 DJ entry 
Night #2 (2016-04-12 00:00) 0D, 2F, 1.0 pts, night total: 1.0, comp total: 3.5 + 1.0 = 4.5 DJ entry

Competition total: 4.5

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## FryingMan

DJ for last night and previous 3 nights

I've been so dry March and April that any lucid dream is a celebration: I got lucid late this morning (#182) at the tail end of a  long night of dreaming, details in the DJ above.

I'm ramping up again on focus, intention, and motivation for more lucidity.    Day work fairly strong again, but as always, night work needs more focus and attention.

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## FryingMan

Got a nice LD last night (#183), its in my DJ..   Yay!     Goal for remainder of May: 20 LDs, so that's 1/20.    I'm trying to push 1LD/night as a goal average in general.  Worked pretty well 3 months ago in February (achieved 6 of goal 10 in last 10 days of the month).   Maybe a bit aggressive but I know I can get lucid a lot if my motivation/focus/resolve is strong along with favorable conditions.   1 LD/day is also an easy goal to calculate.    I'll keep it limited to the current month so it seems more immediate and important.

I made good on my plan to get off the computer an hour before bed last night and read LD stuff instead (ETWOLD).   I read an interesting passage (there is a LOT of good stuff in just chapters 1 and 2 of ETWOLD!) about mental blocks.  That may be something affecting me so I did some affirmations that I have no such blocks, that lucid dreaming is easy for me, etc.   I did not record during the night.   I'm hesitant to return to that, for one thing it can bother my wife, and for another, it always wake me up thoroughly if I have a lot to record.     May play with that one a bit, perhaps just key words.

Today I established 3 PM targets: the first time I:
+ hear a bird call (HIT)
+ first time I begin a conversation with a non-family member (MISSED)
+ step into an intersection (N/A, so far)

Interacting with people is a great opportunity for reflection, since I live abroad from my native language country and rarely speak with non-family members in my native language, yet almost all of my dreams are in my native language.

I may start really ramping back up location awareness, ala ADA-RC/location, since I had at least 4 different scenes at different times either in or near my childhood home (big-time reliable dream sign for me).

I saw a woman in the store today with really large, attractive but odd-looking eyes, it reminded me of the dead woman from last night's dream (dream woman had no eyes, but it was my focus of attention on her at first).

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## fogelbise

Congrats FM!! This refocusing is something I find myself doing at various times through my journey. Getting to bed on time is huge too.

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## FryingMan

Today's PM targets, first time you (my addition: after leaving home):

+ see a pet/animal: HIT, cat in the parking lot
+ see a flower: HIT, alongside the road (patch of dandelions) on the way to the dentist
+ see your face in a mirror: HIT, getting out of my car at the dentist, back-of-sun-visor mirror
+ turn on a light switch: HIT, the bathroom at the dentist
+ step into the sun: HIT, walking back to my car after the dentist

All in the first part of the day.   I may start doing what I did in the past, which is to keep always 4 active targets, and replace old targets with new targets when I realize one was hit/missed.

Dream sign analysis:

LaBerge says in ETWOLD (I'm just going with his flow at this point) that dreamsigns are categorized as:

+ awareness (thoughts, emotions, sensations, perceptions)

+ action (doing something dream-like [flying], malfunctioning devices)

+ form (shape, contents of location)

+ context (location, situation)

I think that action and form are the easiest to notice and identify and get lucid from: these are the "wow, look at that, that's WEIRD!" sort of events.   And guess what, most of my dreamsigns seem to be awareness and/or context-based for quite a while now, very subtle, lucky me!

So I've started paying much more attention to context.  Good old location (which I've done in the past in the form of ADA-RC/location), and particularly any sort of social interaction.   Old friends and people I don't really know in waking occur in just about every dream.    With a few notable exceptions (childhood home and environs), all my dreams take place in non-waking locations.

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## FryingMan

Super sweet dreaming night.    A (slight) return to supplements (Huperzine-A) to get some LDs kick-started.

DJ Entry LD#184

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## DoubleHelix

Nice.  I'm having no luck.  Decent recall - but the dreams are so mundane and every-day that no DILD's have been triggered.  I tried to WILD last night after my standard WBTB after peeing...and couldn't lie still long enough what with an itch here, or an ache there...  I kept tossing and turning and eventually lost my concentration and fell asleep.  On other nights this past week I tried to use the REM-Dreamer.  The first night it woke me each time it triggered (should've checked the settings before using, but didn't) and after adjustment of brightness, there were no cues that made their way into my dreams that I can recall.

Yesterday after a loooong, beautiful wilderness hike and then patch seeding my lawn, etc.  I decided to take an afternoon nap to see if I could LD.  I was repeatedly interrupted by my wife, phones, and her dumb-ass dog's pointless barking.  Not a great week for me AT ALL despite high motivation and strong intentions at bed time.  Boo hiss.   :Oh noes:

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## FryingMan

> Not a great week for me AT ALL despite high motivation and strong intentions at bed time.  Boo hiss.



Yeah, LDing with frequent success is I think all about "putting it all together," all the day work, all that intention, motivation, *and* setting the right conditions (finding a quiet place where you won't be disturbed, for example), WBTB, etc.   

WILD is tough, and is not perhaps for everybody, although I refuse to give up trying (despite it being a long time since my last formal attempt).     Being good at relaxing body and mind completely, fairly quickly, I think is pretty important.

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## DoubleHelix

> WILD is tough, and is not perhaps for everybody...



Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that.  I think WILD >>IS<< for everybody.  If you believe it to be tough, well, then it will appear to be so.  I chose to hold the opposite belief.

As far as I can tell, it is harder in one sense only...and I can't even confirm that it applies to me.  The "transition" stage is reputedly disturbing/anxiety provoking to some.  Forewarned is forearmed, though.  If you know it's coming, it can be a celebratory occasion indicative of impending success (or at least progress) rather than a frightening one.  I >>have< gotten to the point where I hear loud adventitious noises I know are foreign to my house, and have definitely seen hypnagogic images, so while I haven't had the "eureka" moment of full-on success, I've gotten at least that far.  And with little in the way of prior attempts.

I'm definitely NOT counting this technique out - in fact I'm a bit pissed I haven't put more effort and faith in it until recently, where I've been trying "a little of this, and a little of that" to see what gets me closer to my goal.

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## FryingMan

I think it's like any skill -- some people have a knack for it, and some don't.   That doesn't mean the knack-less have no hope of achievement, it just means they must work hard and put in consistent effort.

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## DoubleHelix

As I am fond of saying - If it were easy, everyone would be doing it!   ::chuckle::

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## FryingMan

LD #186 DJ entry

Not the best night of dreaming but a couple nice very vivid/present sequences culminating in a dry-spell-breaking LD.   Not the best LD, short, but hey at this point, "lucid id lucid" so it's a beginning to what I hope is a new level of dreaming for me with my renewed practice.

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## FryingMan

LD #187 DJ Entry

Well, this is good news!   Another LD this morning, this one longer and I managed about a minute before heading into caveman.    Stabilized by looking up close at something, and the visuals became SUPER clear, bright, and high res, and remained that way until I got lost in girly stuff.

I really need to rehearse remembering non-girly goals so I have many choices immediately on hand.    Getting really tired of losing LDs to caveman, so I'm going to really work on de-emphasizing that as a goal and holding dreams and lucidity for as long as I can.

Telling myself, "if I fall asleep now I WILL get lucid" and together with the TYoDaS approach, is working very well!

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## fogelbise

Exciting stuff FM! Perhaps you can integrate the beyond caveman goals into the beginning of those rhymes you make to remember lucid goals. If the remembering of goals tends to occur further into your LD then at least it reinforces those goals and then you can also integrate it into your initial lucidity ritual (pat down etc that you do or did in the past).

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## FryingMan

I haven't been doing any sort of "just got lucid" rituals, either practicing in waking or doing them in dream.   I need to return to those.

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## fogelbise

If you find it easy to get back to, great. If you find it overly complicated, maybe try simplifying it or reducing the steps (while I sit here and tell you to add a step - of this goal in question, lol!). You know all of this of course, but we all probably need reminders at one time or another…I know I do.

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## FryingMan

Summer 2016 competition post links/summaries

The comp *exactly* overlaps my business trip which means I lose several nights to travel and will be jet lagged the whole time.  Dang.

Tasks, goals
Nights #1, #2: 2pts (new total: 2)
Night #3: 4 pts (new total: 6)
Night #4: 0 pts (new total: 6)
Night #5: 35.5 pts (new total: 41.5)

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## fogelbise

Sending good lucid dreaming vibes your way FryingMan to help break through the jet lag!

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## FryingMan

Well finally another big night, tons of dreams, 3 (maybe 4) LDs, one particularly vivid/present/bright & clear and long-ish.    I took a one-a-day multivitamin before bed (but I do that fairly frequently) and took 2mg melatonin after struggling to fall asleep for about 30 minutes since it was a very stressful day and was having trouble quieting my mind.   Despite the stressful day I had great recall, it was a "dreaming all night" kind of night, my favorite.

The one thing that I did differently yesterday was read a post on another site about the importance of reviewing that "feeling" of getting lucid and getting up a goal to look for it in dreams. I took it to mean incubating via visualization the getting lucid moment, so I reviewed past LDs and replayed them and the moment of getting lucid.   This gives more anecdotal evidence to my emerging theory that success at DILD style LDing is heavily, and perhaps even entirely, driven by incubation.   Intention, MILD, reflection/intention moments, all heavily emphasize visualizing the experience of getting lucid in a dream.    Dream incubation is the practice of placing a thought/experience into your dreams by thinking about it during the day.   It works because we tend to dream about that which we think about a lot during the day, and what we're thinking about as we fall asleep.   I also think all-day RCs ala Hukif's gravity RC is a form of incubation: getting the trigger thought/feeling into a dream, triggering lucidity.   I also told myself as I would fall back asleep during the various wakings that I would be lucid in my dreams.   Also in a PM DoubleHelix mentioned that he affirmed to himself before bed that dreaming is a very important of life, and that recalling dreams well is very important.    I used to do that, but had stopped doing that for a while and I just started doing it again after reading this from him.

DJ entry

I didn't quite make 200 LDs by my 3rd LD practice anniversary (I started 2013-08-22), but pretty close!     My anniversary is also my "this is the one day a year where I allow myself the option of quitting" (ala Sensei) came and went without thinking twice.    I can't imagine a life without recalling dreams every night!    More frequent lucidity is always on the menu.   I think a mixture of my unified theory (attention, reflection, recall) plus Tibetan Dream Yoga plus general mindfulness, and this specific visualization/intent will yield great results.   I'm especially hopeful for the incubation approach given the success this last night.  I still want/need to establish a regular mindfulness meditation practice.   This is the year!

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## fogelbise

Congrats on your excellent night of dreaming and lucid dreaming!!!  ::D: 

Your incubation theory makes sense to meI tend to agree! You are really good at boiling things down to their essence, I wish I had that gift! It's just one of things makes you such a great DVA Teacher!!

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## FryingMan

On this infamous day I had an awesome night: TOTM LD, 1.5-2 epic non-lucids, and a couple new firsts!  Haven't had any new firsts in a while...

+ first recalled dream of the night is a TOTM LD (#202), taking place somewhere around 2.5 hours.  That's probably my earliest LD ever, and certainly my earliest TOTM LD

+ first on-purpose teleport: I found myself lucid in the void/blackness, and I drew a (invisible, I wanted it to be a glowing oval, oh well) portal with my finger and stepped through back into a full visuals scene in a city.  Lost lucidity soon after that but that was cool!

DJ entry

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## fogelbise

Congratulations FM!! I have always really liked your idea of celebrating firsts. I think it is a great way to keep LD practice fresh by taking note of new achievements and I think it is also helpful to have a workbook to log it in.

Two very nice achievements!!

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## FryingMan

Had a really good September: 10 LDs in September, and 2 already in October including a TOTM success last night in a super vivid, bright, fun LD.   I bit shorter than I'd like, but aren't they all?  This one was about 1.5-2 minutes: DJ entry.   Dreaming is vivid, and recall, in the high part of the cycle at least, is very good, lots of detail and variety across multiple wakings.   LDs are coming earlier in the night.   I tend to be lucid while it's still dark outside now.   When I have time, I'm almost always making it back to sleep now via my combination of a variant of SSILD, relaxation breathing, and continual letting go.     I also mix in dream yoga visualizations.  

My latest new thing: visualizing a dot moving in a clockwise circular pattern.  Kind of like a computer "busy" icon spinning around.    That helps quiet the mind and make progress towards sleep.

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## FryingMan

*October 2016 competition summary* 

Intro post with 3-step and personal goals

Night 1: points: 9,  total: 9
Night 2: points: 4, total: 13

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## FryingMan

Woohoo 600 DJ entries  :smiley: .

Had two very interesting dreams last night (out of a total of 8 or so): jumping around hills in a 2.5-d land (land was 3d, but all the scenery was "painted" flat on the ground like in a 3d video game).

"The Squids of New York" -- giant two-legged squids swimming, breaching, and sauntering around the shoreline, I did a nose pinch RC (who wouldn't) and entirely ignored the implications of it and just started concentrating on my breathing haha.

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## FryingMan

Getting slowly back into dreaming.    Had a LD two nights ago and a long dreaming night last night, very vivid, lots of visual and experiential recall, very present dreams,  DJ here

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## FryingMan

With such an awesome night of vivid dreaming last night, I'm really looking forward to tonight!  I *will* get to bed by midnight!

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## FryingMan

Getting back into the swing of practice.   Re-reading Holecek from the beginning.  Had a nice lucid walk today.    Noticed a number of things that had changed (areas of the park now fenced off, a pier missing from the river).   Doing peg mnemonics for remembering certain moments (did 1-gun: guy sitting on a stump, 2-shoe red haired woman with curly hair, 3-tree a pharmacy sign next to a tree, so far today).  Trying to have a lot of "just two breaths" heightened awareness moments to get back into the swing of self-awareness and mindfulness.    Sleep patterns remain a challenge: I like reading about and working on other hobby stuff late into the night.   How'd I get here?    By what path?    A PM target of "every time I see a taxi" that I did a few days ago is still with me strongly and triggered a few times today already.

Dreams not coming back in intensity/vividness/length that I would desire yet.  Probably mostly to do with terrible, highly variable sleep schedule.     I've started voice recording in the morning, need to voice record at night and get a mini-WBTB along with it.

Had some pretty vivid moments last night, actually.   A longer storyline based on intrigues at work.   Some freaky eyes staring at me from another apartment's window across the way earlier in the night.  I gave them the finger until they went away!   haha.   The memory of the experiences is fairly clear, but my presence and "solidity" in the moment in the dreams felt weaker than I'd like.

Going to start incubating some TOTM tasks probably.   That always has helped in the past.

I plan LD reading and meditation before bed.   Going to make it a regular thing.  

Gained some weight back from last year's successful fitness program.   It's gotten out of hand.    Started the diet portion again today.    Calorie tracking, and soon back to the gym.   Hungry already  :smiley: .

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## tblanco

^^^ let's do this shit together, lucid as fuck, living a sharp life that we consciously choose!

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## FryingMan

Woohoo, I managed to get to bed before midnight, set solid intention before bed, had a fairly long dreaming night (early recall a bit hazy as I did not record in the night) with some very vivid "you mean *that* was a *dream*!?" dreams, and even a short stint of lucidity following a double-take RC (nose pinch, continue, WAIT a minute...I could breathe?   Nose pinch again, yup, then, unfortunately, "hey babe!" and lost lucidity shortly after that haha (but didn't wake up!)).

Every morning now when I get up: "I've woken into a dream!"

Last night during little wakings I was aware that I had woken, and some times woken from a dream.  Progress!    At about 4-5 hours waking for a bathroom break, just couldn't muster the will to stay up.   Still not  a fan of WBTB.     I will, however, work on MILD more and the TYoDaS throat visualizations (starting with red pearl, moving on to AH and then lotus, finally lotus with symbols on the leaves like in Tony's picture).

It's not a night like some I've had, but it's a start in the right direction: DJ Entry.   A bit of recall from multiple wakings!

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## fogelbise

Awesome! - Those "_you mean *that* was a *dream*!?_" moments!..and the LD! Congrats!





> Every morning now when I get up: "I've woken into a dream!"



I love this!

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## FryingMan

Atrocious bedtime last night (3am?), but I slept in and had a great dreaming night last night, including a *lucid* after a late-ish morning unintentional (long phone call) WBTB.   Some very vivid, present dreams.    Starting to get some of my former recall abilities back at long last.    Building excitement for dreaming again.

Daytime awareness work growing.   Keeping dreaming on my mind.   Doing illusory form and "I'm dreaming" mantra.     Working to maintain awareness and steady presence in diverse situations, despite the pushings and pullings of grasping and aversion.    Recognizing more and more now the moment I've come out of such push/pulls.    Initiating a conversation is a very reliable awareness gap: major goal now is to maintain awareness and the idea of dreaming (reflection) during all conversations, even intense ones.   That's the grail right there.  Also holding location, movement, and path awareness at fairly high levels.    Really trying to notice all transitions and do RCs and reflect on location.

DJ for last night

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## FryingMan

Atrocious bedtime does not work all of the time!   Same late bedtime last night and no recall!   So it's a roll of the dice.    Regular & early-ish bed time (how many years now?) remains a challenge and is still very important for recall for me.

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## FryingMan

I almost WILDed this morning trying on a lark the "The Phase" indirect method via phantom limb wiggling!   Check it out, video link in the DJ entry.      Book link

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## FryingMan

Still recalling dreams in the morning, zero night work and almost zero day work for the summer and a lot of this year in fact.   Waking life continues to be jam-packed with new things going on, changes, challenges, and new happy experiences  :smiley: .

Big dreaming night a week or so ago, very long and vivid semi-lucid dream (or lucid with low awareness).   Some very vivid dreams, and some nights with just a few fragments, but almost always something.....

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## Hukif

Hi there frying, nice to see you still around. And nice to see you still goingstrong with dreaming!

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## FryingMan

Hi Hukif!   Hey yeah it's been a while  :smiley: .    I'm going to try to ramp up my practice again.   Recall remains pretty good and steady but lucidity has been fairly far away most nights.    I lost my wife last year to an illness which not surprisingly had a drastic affect on my overall mood and mindset.    I'm doing pretty well most days now, though.     The future looks bright and I'm getting back into dreaming  :smiley: .

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## FryingMan

2 LDs this week -- pretty good considering the year I've been through.    I reach for recall on most every waking still, but haven't been DJing.    Recall remains generally good and sometimes very detailed.    I've started setting stronger intention for lucidity at bedtime and at wakings, and have been doing more RCs during the day, which led to these LDs.  Also, having LD goals again has helped.

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## DoubleHelix

Hi, FM:
You and I are still in good synchronization.  Weird how that is.  I had my personal illness and it demolished my LD's big time.  Only recently have I been regaining my dream recall (now quite good) and - with limited success - had a couple of short LD's which you know from our PM exchange.  Winter is coming fast, and nights have gotten long...so I hope re-affirming my night-time commitment bears fruit.

Be well, all.

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## fogelbise

Congratulations - great to hear FM  :smiley:  A great winter of dreaming to you both!

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## FryingMan

Another LD woohoo last night.   I flew in a beautiful city night-scene, did some barrel rolls, and lost lucidity in a bit and went on to further adventures.    Quite vivid, a nice night of dreaming  :smiley: .

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## fogelbise

Sweet! That sounds like a wonderful scene to be lucid in and it is great to hear your are back to churning out lucid dreams.  :smiley:  

After slacking on mindfulness for a while I have been putting more effort back into it, as I knew I should, and seeing some waking benefits.

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## FryingMan

One or two (two transitions into lucidity) LDs last night where I practiced flying IronMan style -- I highly recommend trying it!  I've always been a superman-style flier, but the foot/hand repulsion/rockets offer a high degree of control and some really nice speed!  I tried also shooting the hand rockets at DCs but instead all that happened was that little pancakes flew out from my hands and landed on them, I thought this was pretty funny in the dream  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Brief lucid dream last night, first in a while.   I just realized I was dreaming mid-flight.   I conjured a lightsabre and tried to get it to be realistic in look sound and feel.   Like pretty much always, it felt like I was waving a flashlight around and didn't do any damage to the monster I was fighting.   Maybe it's like digital clocks, they just don't work in dreams.  I should try a metal sword again and see how it works!  Lucidity probably didn't last all that long.

Also observing a violent massive flood (scrambling to get to high ground in time), running to get out of the rain but other people were already hogging the shelter, and hanging out at a tennis match where the balls were loosely-sew-together balls of fabric, easily deflated.   Also planning to right a bike over the bridge to San Francisco in a suit, thinking I'll be all sweaty and wet, and I should wear sporty clothes and keep my suit in a backpack (but it'll still get wet since the backpack would be on my back).  Also in childhood home, getting chased by hunter-seekers like in Dune, that looked like transparent pens. A bunch of them, they moved fast and if I tried to catch and throw them away from me they immediately turned back to me and continued pursuit.   They caught up to me and hovered around me and I closed my eyes and waited for the explosion, but it didn't come.  I tried circling around and over a bed to throw them off the trail, and tried  luring them out side and slamming the door shut to trap them outside.

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## fogelbise

Congrats on the LD. I would definitely try the sword, since maybe it's a schema thing. I hope all is well my friend!

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## FryingMan

After a while of not paying attention (uh oh!) to dreams very much, yesterday I decided to refocus my efforts on continuing the practice.  And I got lucid this morning!    
DJ entry LD#239

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## FryingMan

Egads, about 3 months without a lucid.    Waking life priorities are taking their toll.   Finally got 8+ hours of sleep last night and had a very vivid/present bunch of dreams but not a hint of lucidity.

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## Nfri

> Egads, about 3 months without a lucid.    Waking life priorities are taking their toll.   Finally got 8+ hours of sleep last night and had a very vivid/present bunch of dreams but not a hint of lucidity.



Felt the same... dont be distracted by dream characters in waking life from you path.  :smiley: 

https://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-cha...ay-2018-a.html

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## tblanco

> Egads, about 3 months without a lucid.    Waking life priorities are taking their toll.   Finally got 8+ hours of sleep last night and had a very vivid/present bunch of dreams but not a hint of lucidity.



I see we are both recently getting back on the stuff. Good. I'm here. Let's do it.

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## FryingMan

> I see we are both recently getting back on the stuff. Good. I'm here. Let's do it.



Well after the possibly the longest dry spell of my LD career, I finally had another LD  ::D: .   I've been having some lucid moments (2-3) in the last week or so, for example, where I either just know or do a quick RC and realize I'm dreaming, but immediately lose lucidity.   But last night I found myself doing nose pinch (don't remember why I did it) with some air escaping.   It was one of those frustrating nose pinches where air is not moving entirely freely, but a bit is escaping.   So I re-did it, and it was still somewhat ambiguous.   So I looked at my hands, and that clinched it: fingers of all different lengths.   Woohoo, at long last, fully lucid!   I was in my CH (childhood home), a frequent dreaming location, and just walked around for a while, looking at everything, being amazed at the colors and the feeling right before getting lucid of being utterly convinced I was awake at the time.   

The trigger?  Probably having a long talk with new friends over dinner about lucid dreaming last week.   And increased intention and mindfulness.   It does take a while for the dreaming mind to catch up with the waking one, so if you're (re)dedicating yourself, be patient, and keep that intention high, and think about LDing as much as you can during the day!

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## tblanco

Big Win! that's inspiring!!! I've been active in rededicating my efforts and seeing you get a win like this is a charge!

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## FryingMan

I had my first on-purpose LD in a while a couple nights ago!   I did MILD after a "bathroom WBTB" and had a nice LD.   Not too long, probably less than a minute, but I definitely realized I was dreaming, and confirmed with a nose pinch.  Waking or a trip to the void followed, I tried for DEILD and did fall asleep but was non-lucid (on the verge, though).   I've been ramping up my daytime awareness, more RCs, more reflection moments and mindfulness.   Haven't quite gotten into the ADA/RC (continuous RC) like I'd half-planned, but still considering that for this year.

DJ entry

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## fogelbise

Congrats FM! Glad to hear you back at it. If you would like some inspiration to keep the RCs up, check out: https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...-activity.html You might find a nugget or two. I am having good results with my latest post in the thread but it may be controversial, as I mention there.

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## FryingMan

> Congrats FM! Glad to hear you back at it. If you would like some inspiration to keep the RCs up, check out: https://www.dreamviews.com/attaining...-activity.html You might find a nugget or two. I am having good results with my latest post in the thread but it may be controversial, as I mention there.



Hi fogelbise!  That is a great post, a lot in it resonates with my own practice and theories on lucid dreaming.     I think your "sense of unease" is very similar to what I consider "reflection."    My ideas about vivid dreaming, memories, and about any waking moment being a dream are very similar  :smiley: .   Great minds.....

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## FryingMan

In what's shaping up to be a pretty dull year dream-wise (not all that many LDs, dream recall well below my usual standards), I had a fairly phenomenal night a couple nights ago.   I slept longer than usual, which may have been the impetus.  I had many vivid, detailed, present dreams throughout the night, including a fairly early-on solid LD (but short).  Yay!

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## fogelbise

Yay! Congrats FM! A solid LD and earlier on, very nice! As well as vivid, detailed, present dreams - big in my book! I hope you find inspiration in your experience there.  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

LDs.....few and far between.   But dream recall not so bad.   Had some very detailed recall last night and in the last several nights, despite terrible bedtimes (2, 3am, ugh!)

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## FryingMan

Two LDs in two nights, a veritable flood given the year I had last year.    The first (two nights ago) was "that's weird!, <rc>, ahh..." and the second was either a start of dream DILD or a WILD where I sort of watched the dream form (but hard to tell).   First (#245) was fairly low awareness but decided against sexy time to fly up to the UFOs that got me lucid to see what was inside (a super exclusive day spa it turns out, $5K/day, for a rarefied clientele).  Second (#246) I had higher awareness, did a few things for stability ("Clarity!"  Rubbed hands?), looked around, high vivid visuals (but a little wobbly/unstable) but decided on sexy time after all (but in the context of the dream).   Held on to the dream until lady #2  :smiley: .

Not doing a ton for LDing consistently, but am holding moments of raised awareness throughout the day.   Did an RC on my evening walk, and probably most importantly, during my mini-WBTB (very reliable at about 5 hrs, I'm drinking a lot of water during the day), setting intention to LD and making it back to sleep despite  a brain that is starting to wake and churn through waking life to-dos.

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## fogelbise

Sweet! 2 days in a row points to doing something right. I do think that mini-wbtb can be a good boost. Congratulations FM!

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## FryingMan

Long dry spell.   Waking life taking up all my mental efforts this year.   Had a couple brief LDs in the last week after giving it a bit more attention, and also because I believe I tried a demo of a VR system a few days ago (really impressive, and totally amazing/dreamlike, probably great for LD incubation!).   Recall remains pretty good but I'm not journaling much these days.

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## fogelbise

Nice! I think VR can definitely prompt LDs. I also feel like owning (or easy access to) a quality VR headset can take away some motivation to put in the work for lucid dreaming due to the ease of having an experience, though it is an experience without the infinite possibilities of lucid dreaming.

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## FryingMan

Did an RC (didn't get lucid unfortunately) in a dream two nights ago, so that's some progress on my practice reboot.   Some good recall last night (pretty much an epic non-lucid, long 7-8 scene continuity) but only 6 hours of sleep.  Gotta practice relaxation for sleep techniques and practice settling the mind meditation.

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## FryingMan

Several nights now of quite vivid dreaming and good recall.  Increasing awareness of and beginning reflection of events and features of the dreamscape.   No in-dream RCs after last week's.   I now have a very regular sleep schedule (big issue for me in the past), so I'm hoping for some payoff in dreaming, if only I can get back to sleep more quickly at the middle-of-the-night wakings.   After about 5hrs of sleep (as always) is a very challenging back-to-sleep.

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## FryingMan

It's too quiet around these parts!   C'mon everybody, get dreaming!

2 LDs recently, one last night.  Very short, probably more of a lucid moment, but I consider it a victory.  I did a BTB after getting up for a bathroom break after about 6.5 hours of sleep.  I had the bed to myself so I put in earplugs and pulled a folded t-shirt over my eyes to keep things dark and quiet.  I made it back to sleep (I've been getting more disciplined in my back-to-sleeps recently, eventually reigning in the runaway train of random thought chains and focusing on relaxation until I sleep, and slept for about another 3 hours.   Recall is always poor after about 8 hours of sleep, but I did get lucid, and had some dramatic, interesting dreams in that period.

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## fogelbise

It is quiet. I often have weeks between visiting here lately. It is great to hear about your lucidity and improvement in getting back to sleep!

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## NyxCC

Congrats on the lds! 

I think we need a Winter lucid challenge to get the ball rolling!

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## FryingMan

Set some PM targets today: 

+ every time my dog yawns: HIT every time (~4-5 so far)
+ leave front door to building: 1 miss
+ enter butcher shop: miss

Held one reflection/intention minute
I've set goals for this months TOTM tasks.   Need to meditate on these more before bed.
Poor sleep last night, room too hot, popped 2mg melatonin still early enough to be useful, that allowed me to fall asleep eventually.

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## FryingMan

I've made the decision to return to full-scale full-on LD practice.   I've been too long away, and I've wasted too much precious time on the path towards more skillfully navigating the night and consciousness/awareness/lucidity.

"Intention ON!"

One of my key targets is dealing with my dream-busting middle-of-the-night insomnia.    Most nights I fall asleep quickly enough, but after about 4 hours, any waking may see me up for a while, and especially when I do any sort of night practices (MILD, spend too much time recalling dreams, WILD, etc.).   My relaxation techniques help somewhat, but not reliably enough.  I want to get to the point where I can fall asleep in just a couple of minutes at will.

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## FryingMan

Well obviously this year got screwed up big-time with the virus, which put my renewed LD practice on the back burner.     Recall has been hanging in there, some days more than others, but I haven't been DJing and LDs are few and far between.

I upped my intent for LDs in recent days, and have been more stubborn about those 5-6 hour wakings, really sticking in there to get back to sleep instead of giving up and getting up for the day.   Today, with some sort-of-MILD setting intent for an LD and BTS after such a 5-ish hour waking, I did fall back asleep and had a brief LD --  a "sexy time" dream where I took a moment to acknowledge that I was dreaming before getting on with the action.

Funny moment where when I cajoled the dream lady to say something sexy,  she instead squawked out the response "EIGHT O'CLOCK!".

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## fogelbise

Congrats my friend! Just saw this. I imagined all kinds of explanations for "8 o'clock!" including maybe mishearing her saying something that sounds kind of similar.

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## FryingMan

A couple of lucids recently, not really actively practicing, but sporadically focusing on raised awareness sometimes throughout the day, generally recalling dreams in the morning but not often recording them, which affects recall quality.     

The first one had me walking through a local museum with a lot of people mulling around, I was pinching my nose and was able to breathe through it but not really paying attention to it, I was a bit curious that despite how hard I squeezed my nose I could still get some air in and out of my nose, then it hit me, OH!   and went on to have a short lucid.   I remarked how very clear and "high definition" the surroundings were, how realistic the DCs looked.  I even bumped into one with my shoulder as I walked by.

The second one was just the other day, I was walking on the street outside my childhood home with my fiance and some other guy, looked up into the sky and decided something wasn't right (two moons?), realized I was dreaming, and took my fiance's hand and took her to fly and dance with me in the sky  :smiley: .

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## FryingMan

Not a lot of activity on workbooks recently!   It would be great to see people continuing to work on their dream goals and dreaming in general.

I'm working on a return to dreaming, lucidity, and mindfulness practice, and this year, hope to really keep it up and make it part of everyday life, to enhance those mostly lost hours during sleep.   I miss the uber-vivid dreams in particular, the epic, long weird, funny, beautiful experiences.

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## FryingMan

Two nights ago, I had my first LD in a quite a while!   I'm excited that increased effort has shown some results in a short period of time.   I know this is a journey, and I'm steeling myself for the effort required if I choose to really dedicate to it.

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## IndigoRose

Hi, FryingMan!
I finally took a couple of days to read through your workbook (to be honest, I wasn't able to read everything, but a large part of it, and also some of your dreams). Because from other random posts on DV, I know you had to fight (and maybe still have to) middle of the night insomnia... I know that a bit too well, although some of my insomnia is fake insomnia. I can relate to many things from your experience (like the troubles with WILD, WBTB etc.).
It is very valuable to have the opportunity to read about someone's journey over so many years. So thank you for keeping at it and for updating  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> Hi, FryingMan!
> I finally took a couple of days to read through your workbook (to be honest, I wasn't able to read everything, but a large part of it, and also some of your dreams). Because from other random posts on DV, I know you had to fight (and maybe still have to) middle of the night insomnia... I know that a bit too well, although some of my insomnia is fake insomnia. I can relate to many things from your experience (like the troubles with WILD, WBTB etc.).
> It is very valuable to have the opportunity to read about someone's journey over so many years. So thank you for keeping at it and for updating



Thank you for the kind comment!    I have a very uplifting status update for today -- since my return to practice, I've been eagerly anticipating dreams of the sort I call "epic non-lucids," and have bee somewhat disappointed at the relatively poor recall (compared to what I used to have) up to now, and last night I finally got my first epic!   So I've proven that yes, I can in fact still dream like I used to.     

Last night involved not just one but several back-to-sleeps that were all successful.   I could have probably continued, but sleeping too long is also bad for recall (it disrupts your sleep schedule), and from experience I know that dreams decrease in quality and awareness the longer I sleep past about 8 hours.    Getting back to sleep after a particularly interesting dream and spending time recalling it is sometimes challenging, but I made it and continue to dream several more times.

So for those with middle-of-the-night insomnia, there is hope!  (What is fake insomnia, I'm wondering?)

What I've found that works most of the time:

+ Total relaxation of mind and body.   Particularly the face: tongue, jaw, eyes, forehead.   For me, learning how not to "look" actively at the back of my eyelids was key
+ Directing your attention out of your head: something like a 61-point relaxation technique where you move your awareness from point to point around your body, relaxing these points.   Or if visualization is an option, some "quiet" visualization, like flying or hovering outside your body
+ Resolving not to engage thought chains that arise, just acknowledge them and let them dissolve
+ Remaining calm, tranquil, accepting, happy, to be in your very comfortable state of relaxation
+ Let go of all "trying" to do anything.   Your body and mind already know how to fall asleep, you just need to get out of the way

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## IndigoRose

Congrats on your epic dream, I haven't had a long epic dream for weeks, I dream in tons of seemingly unrelated fragments these days. But it will pass, I am sure. Focusing on recall and lucid dreaming has made my normal dreaming significantly better, that's what I absolutely love about it.





> What is fake insomnia, I'm wondering?



Also called sleep state misperception or paradoxical insomnia. It is a significant underestimating of how much sleep a person gets or how long it takes to fall asleep.
People with fake insomnia feel like they slept very little but a sleep study shows normal sleep patterns.
When awoken (usually from light sleep), they would swear they were awake.
More here but it is poorly understood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_state_misperception

I read somewhere that it could be caused by a slightly higher awareness of the sleeping environment and of the body.
On Wikipedia, they mention more alpha waves (and possibly also beta and gamma), which makes me think about possible lucidity/self-awareness in NREM sleep, maybe a low-level or short bursts producing the illusion of continuity of cosciousness?

My personal experience is feeling like I was awake for 2 hours or more in the early morning but then feeling reasonably well-rested at my normal waking time (and I am very sensitive to getting less sleep than I need). So my thinking used to be that just lying there, resting with closed eyes, somehow works too.
Only after I got into lucid dreaming training, I've realized that being conscious doesn't equal being awake. I also started to learn more about my body and my sleep.
I would have some middle-of-the-night insomnia, then I would wake up from a dream and think that I haven't been sleeping at all, but I would remember the dream, proving that I actually slept. And this could repeat three times in one hour.
I also get dreams about sleeping. I am usually in a different location (often childhood home or random hotel rooms) and I try to sleep. I want to sleep because I need that to have a LD. But I can't, so I give up and go to do something else. I guess that FAs like this could play a role in the illusion of not sleeping. Once, I even dreamt about being in bed and telling my husband, that I can't sleep.
Then, there is conscious (self-aware) NREM sleep. I guess this happens more than people know. Most people perceive non-consolidated sleep (N1) as being awake or as being half asleep, and that makes sense because it really isn't sleep, it's more like drifting in and out of consciousness + hypnagogia. Or when WILDing, that peaceful state when all hypnagogia ends but there is no dream, is it N2? I think I experience conscious sleep relatively often but how can I know for sure? I don't experience the void, I am always aware of my body and outside sounds. Sometimes, I am almost sure that I am sleeping because my thought patterns are dreamy (associative, without my input), much slower, and time passes much more quickly than when awake.
But no matter if it is sleep or not, I can't enter REM from it. I know what probably is the REM onset well - a sudden change of the state, my breathing gets slightly faster and the heart rate too and there can be vibrations or light shaking but not always. But it's like my mindset is wrong for going deeper, even though I really try not to care, it's like just noticing it makes it go away. Annoying.
When entering from hypnagogia, it can be easier because kinesthetic hallucinations, phantom movement or tactile hallucinations can help with getting in, but often, I am half in the dream (perceiving parts of the dream body and/or parts of the dreams scene) and half in reality (perceiving my real body) and I can almost never get in, the sense of my real body preventing the immersion into the dream. Or I can get there for a second or two and then it collapses.

Anyway, I think that the best option for me is not to worry if I sleep or not. Anxiety kills everything.
It is also best not to worry if I am asleep during WILDing or not. It also doesn't matter what sleep stage I am in.

I don't attempt WILD seriously these days at all but my brain sometimes gets into the WILDing mode (noticing every bit of noise and "waking me up" for the transition). I hate this  :smiley:  Sometimes I give it an attempt or two and then give up... and then I make it when I am genuinely in the state of not caring or being completely passive.





> + Let go of all "trying" to do anything.   Your body and mind already know how to fall asleep, you just need to get out of the way



Yes, this.
But sometimes, just thinking "I am going to dream soon and I am looking forward to it" ruins everything.

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## FryingMan

Sort of a "diary entry":

Finally starting to settle down into taking a serious approach, a "training" approach to dreaming.   Training as opposed to just practice, to "just exercising."   Training in the context of weight-lifting means performing specific planned exercises on a regular schedule to increase skill and to achieve goals: usually muscle/strength growth.    Training uses the principle of "that which is measured, improves."

I've also been thinking a lot about knowledge vs. skill (knowing versus doing) in regards to life activities and specifically for dreaming practice.   I recognize that I'm addicted to the addition of knowledge, and I shy away from increasing skill.    I think because adding knowledge gives you the impression of having achieved mastery, without having to go through the pain of actually achieving mastery via increasing skill.

I've been wasting a lot of time online getting my dopamine hits from messaging, arguing on social media, etc.    It's a massive loss of life and crucial time best spent pursuing goals.    Time -- which is in such short supply.  What have I achieved with these time wasting activities?    Not progressing sufficiently in work as much as I could, avoiding needed household improvements, not taking care of required document tasks, avoiding strength training.   Avoiding dream training.

My fiance has a dessert-tooth, especially for ice cream.   Despite not really dessert-focused (My preferred food vices are salt/starch/fat, e.g., CHEESY GARLIC BREAD...., Chinese, Thai, Indian,  pizza, burgers, you know, All-American stuff), I've been giving in to her dessert desires way more than I want to, just because it makes her happy.   I need to start kindly declining.

We go hot and cold with alcohol.    Sometimes months without so much as a drop of wine, sometimes really hitting the wine, champagne, and Scotch.    Especially New Year.  Alcohol's very bad for dreaming.    Gotta preserve those remaining brain cells!

So, on to LD training!     Make a decision, and execute on it.   Do it.   Set goals, devise practice regimes, keep records.

I really want to get back to where I was before with recall, nightly epic non-lucids, and lucid frequency.    That took middle-of-the-night recording.   I did voice recording in my initial practice, but I can't do that now, I may have to do fast written keyword summaries.

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## FryingMan

Update.  Life threw another curveball (more like a big kick in the teeth) with a chronic, very serious immediate family illness, which has been a big nervous, mental, and physical drain, soon after the above post, and I gave up all attempts at LD training soon after, until the last week or so.   I'm still coming to grips with how to reasonably live with the situation while it continues.   I've decided to (again!) try to reboot my dreaming practice, and to maintain it despite all the crap that life and the world can throw at you to mess things up.  It's worth it.     So here's hoping I stick with it this time.     I feel like I've had a slight uptick in recall vividness and presence in the week that I've been practicing.   Decent recall, but I want more: overflow recall, like it feels like you've been dreaming all night with vivid, beautiful, fun, interesting dreams.   Epics.  And LDs, of course!

I'm supplementing my usual mindfulness approach with  a particular LD training system called "Dreaming For Gamers" by a very experienced (life-long practitioner) lucid dreamer.   He focuses on building skills like memory in order to build/rehabilitate neural pathways.   Google search it, it's interesting, and a free course covering dream recall, dream perception, dream awareness, and so on.    I've glanced though it and (while it could use some better editing in places) the ideas are sound, and worth a look.

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## FryingMan

Despite incredibly stressful world events and continuing immediate family very severe and troubling health situations, I managed my first DILD of this reboot last night  :smiley: .   

I had time to engage the environment, do a nose pinch to be sure, felt the upholstered hand-railing on the staircase I was on, went outside and interacted with some DCs.

Fun fact: today (March 6th 2022) is the one-month anniversary of this current LD practice reboot (started Feb 6th 2022).   Back in 2013 during my very first LD practice period (which lasted about 3 years), I also got my very first LD at exactly the one month point!

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## FryingMan

I always return to this section of TYoDaS (Introduction to Part 3, Section 1).     If I had to choose two pages from all of the LD literature to take with me to a desert island, it would be this introduction.   Nothing else I've come across is as complete, and direct to the point what we're trying to achieve in LD practice.   I even have the final words in my sig  :smiley: .

My go-to reference on SAT and it's applicability to lucidity & dreaming, from The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep (summarized, emphasis mine):





> In order to progress we must *develop some stability in the mind* so that we can maintain *greater awareness in experience*, in "vision," and *develop the capacity for skillful responsiveness*.  Therefore, the first practice is calm abiding (zhiné), in which *the mind is trained to be still, focused, and alert*. 
> 
> As we bring *greater awareness to experience*, we can *overcome the habits of reaction* ... *[we are] training the mind to use every object of waking experience as a cause for increased lucidity and presence*. 
> 
> You can determine for yourself how mature your practice is: as you encounter the phenomena of experience, examine your feelings and your reactions to the feelings. *Are you controlled by your interactions with the objects of experience or do you control your reactions to them*? Are you thrown into emotional reactions by your attractions and aversions, or can you *remain in steady presence in diverse situations*? ... if the latter, *you will increasingly develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways*.



I believe this is the ultimate summary of the practice available anywhere in the literature.

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## FryingMan

Had LD #266 today!  ::banana::     It may be a bit of a stretch, but I think I'm going to set the goal of reaching #300 by the end of the year.   That would mean matching (or even exceeding) my average LD rate from my initial practice years.   It may need some adjustment as life continues to play out, but it's something to work towards  :smiley: .

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## FryingMan

Very hot weather this last week -- I'm finally getting outside and doing summery things: going to the lake, swimming, etc.   Getting lots of sun.   With the increased physical activity I'm sleeping more deeply and recalling dreams is a bit more challenging.    But I'm also getting in a lot of practice of remaining in lucid, present awareness throughout the day, and having a lot of "getting lucid" moments where I realize I'd been zoned out or lost on wandering thought chains, and coming back to lucid presence.

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## FryingMan

Recall up and down.   Had a pretty big recall night on June 22, 2022, finally got around to editing the speech-to-text of the voice recorder.

Last night, July 4, 2022, uptick on recall: glass of red wine a few hours before bed, and spent about an hour or two in the afternoon/evening editing and publishing speech-to-text DJ voice recordings.
A lot of dreaming recalled at the 4 hour mark, and then again at 7-hours.    The experience of lots of detail remembered, but detailed memory fades pretty quickly with movement and time.   Voice recorded the major recalled dreams.   A positive evening, all things considered.

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## FryingMan

LDs #267 (2022-07-07) and #268 (2022-07-08) two nights ago and last night!   ::banana:: 

I've been doing ADLP -- All Day Lucid Presence, including state awareness, and a lot of memory/recall work, for about a week, or perhaps just a bit less.   In short, sort of like my Unified Theory of Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall.   In place of just "pay attention," it's "be fully present in the moment, with full lucid awareness compromising external, body, and internal/thought awareness".   I strive to maintain awareness of state (waking / dreaming) constantly.   I use body/hands awareness as triggers / anchors to remain in the present moment.   Striving to, as my signature says, build stability in awareness.

I've been doing some day journaling to stoke the fires of recall, showing my unconscious / dreaming mind how I want to be able to recall dreams.    It has already helped me move from "I forgot what I had for breakfast" where the days are one big blur, to a point where at least for some periods on some days, being able to recall details and sequences of experiences in high detail.    LD #267 was followed by a non-lucid which was very vivid and had some internal introspection on whether or not I could fly  :smiley: .

I also had a near-WILD, or perhaps a very short WILD.  I was aware while falling asleep of some REM atonia "noise," (some repeating bursts of white noise sound), felt a sort of REM atonia tingle, and then found myself in a dream scene which rapidly grew to a full 3D sensory environment.   I looked around, was really stoked that I'd made it into a dream lucidly, and then the dream faded right away in a few seconds....oof!   Still, generally a good success.

I attempted the TOTS bonus last night, elevator task, I consider it a partial success, got in the elevator, but the dream faded before I could arrive anywhere.

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## FryingMan

LDs #269 (2022-07-16) and #270 (today, 2022-07-24)  ::banana:: 

Starting to come to terms with my now seemingly traditional 5am waking (doesn't seem to matter when I go to bed).    I've started taking the advice of sleep therapists and not lying for long periods in bed awake.  If I'm not making progress towards sleep (like 20-25 minutes), I get up and sit in a nearby chair.   This helps my body cool off back to the lower temperature that's needed for sleep onset (and allows my sheets/pillow to cool off back to where its comfy to be in bed after returning), helps my body shed its "bed tiredness" and to develop again more of a "bed craving."   I meditate, try to calm down, think of dreaming topics, and hopefully I get tired (starting to yawn is a good sign), and then I'll return to bed and relax.

Today I did this and returned to bed with the intention to WILD once I started feeling the familiar sleep onset signals, but it was going very slowly so I abandoned that, setting intention that "the next thing I see is a dream...soon I'll be in a dream" and aimed for 100% relaxation and sleep.  Eventually I found myself in a scene that I recognized almost immediately to be a dream.   I'd been incubating an encounter, and one presented itself immediately.   I took a moment before engaging to make a concrete affirmation, "I'm dreaming," which I require before I count it as a lucid.

I'm starting to get the feeling that any time that I can get back to sleep in scenarios like this, I will get lucid with very high confidence.

I'm also starting to understand the phrase from other dreamers who say, "I can get lucid any time I want to."    It's sort of like losing weight -- you can also do that any time you want to, but not everybody actually does it, because it takes effort, determination, dedication, and willpower/intent.   Same thing with LDing "on demand" -- it takes effort, determination, dedication, (preparation!), and willpower & intent.      The fact that one can do it if they want to, doesn't mean it's necessarily easy or without effort!

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## FryingMan

Well after July's successes I've been smacked down by sleep issues.    I've always had a tendency towards sleep maintenance insomnia (waking up after 5 hrs of sleep and not getting back to sleep), especially when practicing LD night-time methods, and especially when intent for LDs is high.   Focusing on sleep first, now, establishing a regular schedule, learning healthy circadian rhythm practices like getting lots of outside morning light as soon as I get up, and avoiding evening home lights, bright screens, wearing blue blocker glasses, etc.,  before bed.   

I'm maintaining my All Day Lucid Presence practice as much as I can, and emphasizing happy/joyful/stress-free waking life choices.    I've all but stopped reading the "news," for example, and I find I do NOT miss it a bit!  The world may be going to hell in a handbasket, but I don't need to follow the second by second updates.

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## FryingMan

I've been reading "End the Insomnia Struggle" and it has really helped.  

 I finally have taken positive and concrete steps to deal with my sleep maintenance insomnia.   And I believe it's working.  I slept about 7 hours both of the last couple nights with no long wakeful phases, and even had a low-grade LD last night (#271)!     I'm focusing on sleep 100% for now, so recall and LDing is on pause for the most part, although I did start dialing back up the daytime lucid presence recently.

If anyone  does ever have any issues, I highly recommend the book "End the Insomnia Struggle," it's really helped reshape how I approach the night, sleep, dreaming even, and given me concrete tools to deal with the insomnia.  The option I chose is called Stimulus Control Therapy: in short:

+ don't go to bed unless you're sleepy (also best if at a regular established time, which I've been doing)
+ get out of bed and go to a different room and so something quiet/boring, if at any time you're in bed for 20 minutes without falling asleep (you can return to bed whenever you feel sleepy again, up until your designated wake-up time).
+ get up at the same time every day regardless of how much you've slept
+ no daytime napping

The benefits of this particular approach is that it allows you to have a good night on occasion and sleep more or less as much as you want to or can (if you go to  bed early enough).   The idea is to retrain your brain to build a very strong association between being in bed and sleeping, and not sleeping outside of bed.

I've also started getting outside first thing in the morning to get early morning sunlight in my eyes.   This helps to strongly establish the circadian rhythm.  A lot of insomnia issues (of the type where you wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep) are when the sleep drive is out of whack with the circadian rhythm.

The book helped me to realize that you can't fight insomnia and you can't force yourself to sleep.  You have to basically just be willing to accept whatever experience one particular night has in store for you.   This relieves a lot of the stress of insomnia, along with knowing that there are effective behavioral treatments that really work (stimulus control and sleep restriction therapies).   I'm very hopeful that this SCT will give me the ability to fall asleep much much faster in the middle of the night, which would be great for LDing!

I've kept a sleep log this last week when doing SCT and I see the improvement already: measuing is of course approximate but these are the times I've calculated that I've slept:

Hours slept the night of: 
8/22: 5.75
8/23 5.33
8/24 6.75
8/25 6.36
8/26: 6.8
8/27: 7.08

Woohoo  ::banana::  !

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## FryingMan

I have accumulated 3 solid weeks of sleep log data, and I'm into my 4th now.   My average time asleep (although how I count it hasn't been exactly stable, trying to account for time awake at initial bedtime and in wakings during the night is difficult) seems to be improving.   And most important of all, I'm not lying awake for long periods in bed frustrated about not falling asleep.    I think the trend is for longer, better sleep, but time will tell.

What I can say is that I am more and more aware and familiar with my sleep/wake rhythms. My sleep drive is regularly very high in the evening now. In fact, if I'm doing something quiet, like sitting watching a video, it gets to the point where I start nodding off and can't keep my eyes open. I'm learning more about how much sleep I can reliably generate under what circumstances. The good news is that I typically have a very vivid, long period of dreaming within the sleep window of what I can typically generate (6.5 hours). The not-so-good news is that it's less than I'd like, for dreaming. But we work with what we have. I did sleep for a bit over 7 hours today (hard to tell light sleep from awake without a fitness tracker device), while being in bed for around 8.5, the last hour of that in a semi-sleep state, perhaps some light sleep for some of it, which was still restful.  I haven't been in bed that long mostly sleeping/solidly resting for quite a while (without feeling wide awake and not being able to fall back asleep).   I really think the therapies from the book are working well, and I feel confident I can manage much better now.

I'll continue with the logging and perhaps the therapies for probably at least another month, and then start slowly to work on incorporating some night-time LD practices (short MILD, SSILD, probably won't touch WILD for a while).

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## FryingMan

Well, a real milestone, had LD #272 last night, TWO MONTHS after my previous LD, and about a week (or a bit more) into my "post sleep therapy" rekindling of practice.

That's the good news.   The less-than-good news was that it came after a long (longer than I wanted) period of wakefulness in the middle of the night.    It's a familiar pattern: wake, can't fall asleep, then spend an hour or more working on relaxing and maybe some techniques (I did SSILD, thought "oh well, might as well try to WILD at this point"), then have a LD.

Interesting tidbit: I felt quite hot, as in temperature at the point where I realized I wasn't making progress back to sleep.   Since I now know that our bodies must cool off in order to fall asleep, I removed the blanket and just tried to relax while cooling off.  Apparently it worked, I started to feel drowsy again as I cooled off, and managed a few SSILD cycles before then falling asleep.

I pondered just getting up at that point when I couldn't sleep (it was around 3:55am, I felt like I'd been up for about 20-30 minutes already at that point).   Decided not to, very glad I didn't!

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## FryingMan

LD #273 last night, 3 weeks since last LD.    That's a lot better than the 2 months since the prior one!

I've begun in earnest the Four Foundational Practices as taught in the new 2022 edition of The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep.    Frequently all throughout the day I "wake myself from the dream of distraction," increase clarity and presence, and (1) recognize the dream-like nature of all experience, and (2) reaction to experience, trying as best I can to make this recognition right when the experience/reaction arises.   Before bed I (3) review the day, giving another chance to realize the dream-like nature of experience, for those that I may have missed during the day, and set strong intent for recalling dreams and having lucid dreams.   (4) in the morning I review the dreams of the night, and if not lucid, recognize that I did dream, but did not recognize the dream as dream while within it, and set intent to notice (get lucid) in future dreams, and set strong intent to continue the practice throughout the day.

I'm also dabbling a bit in the beginnings of the night practices, placing awareness in the throat chakra of the central channel, promoting strong peacefulness.

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## FryingMan

LD #274 last night, with the help of galantamine and OOHHH BOY what a ride.   Fully conscious WILD entry with mega-vibrations (of a magnitude I've never felt before) and no (discernible) discontinuities.  Quick trip to the void/fade, FA (missed), some non-lucid content, then lucid again via latest state test.  Ultra-waking vivid experience, seemingly indistinguishable from waking.   Super bright and high-res.   Many scenes and interactions, things seen, some dialogue.   FA (VERY convincing, but a state test caught it) and continued.  WOOOOO.    DJ forthcoming.   ::banana::

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