# Lucid Dreaming > Dream Control >  >  Lucid Schizophrenia?

## jamous

Not to trivialize the sad and disturbing condition of schizophrenia, but what if you were constantly having schizophrenic hallucinations and you knew they were in fact hallucinations, could you control them, like a "lucid schizophrenic" episode?

----------


## Ailos

Schizophrenic psychosis is usually a completely uncontrollable symptom. After all, if the mentally ill could control their symptoms, we wouldn't have mental illness would we?

Now, I would say it's theoretically possible to _train_ one's self to imagine certain scenes very vividly, and perhaps transpose those onto real-world perception, but it has its dangers.

The brain is designed to perceive strictly the real world while its awake, and make up its own world while asleep. Mixing the two can lead to undesireable side effects.

----------


## jamous

> Schizophrenic psychosis is usually a completely uncontrollable symptom. After all, if the mentally ill could control their symptoms, we wouldn't have mental illness would we?
> 
> Now, I would say it's theoretically possible to _train_ one's self to imagine certain scenes very vividly, and perhaps transpose those onto real-world perception, but it has its dangers.
> 
> The brain is designed to perceive strictly the real world while its awake, and make up its own world while asleep. Mixing the two can lead to undesireable side effects.



I would bet!
You're absolutely right though, I agree with everyhting you're saying

----------


## Amelaclya

Although I've never experienced any schizophrenic episodes myself, I always assumed they would be more like the hallucinations that occur during sleep paralysis. 

I'm not sure if anyone has tried to control those hallucinations, but if it was possible, "Old Hag" wouldn't be so scary  :smiley:

----------


## Ailos

> Although I've never experienced any schizophrenic episodes myself, I always assumed they would be more like the hallucinations that occur during sleep paralysis. 
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone has tried to control those hallucinations, but if it was possible, "Old Hag" wouldn't be so scary



Well to my understanding schizophrenic episodes are so powerful that the person suffering from it is often unaware the hallucinations are, in fact, hallucinations. Their perception of the world has been altered so severely that they think the hallucinations, whether they're auditory or visual, are part of the real world, and the distinction between whats real and what's not becomes blurred. That's what makes schizophrenia such a debilitating illness.

----------


## Amelaclya

> Well to my understanding schizophrenic episodes are so powerful that the person suffering from it is often unaware the hallucinations are, in fact, hallucinations. Their perception of the world has been altered so severely that they think the hallucinations, whether they're auditory or visual, are part of the real world, and the distinction between whats real and what's not becomes blurred. That's what makes schizophrenia such a debilitating illness.



Yep, the same can be said of hallucinations experienced during SP for people that don't know what they are. 

I actually have a friend that has the occasional hallucination (mildly schizophrenic I suppose, even though she hasn't been diagnosed) and she says she used to think her hallucinations were real, but now she can recognize that something strange may not really be there.  However, even knowing something is probably in her imagination, she still can't make it disappear.  

I think that is probably true for even the most severe of schizophrenics.  I have watched documentaries and even if at first they believe the hallucinations, after awhile they begin to recognize when they are hallucinating, even though they can't make it stop.

----------


## jamous

> Well to my understanding schizophrenic episodes are so powerful that the person suffering from it is often unaware the hallucinations are, in fact, hallucinations. Their perception of the world has been altered so severely that they think the hallucinations, whether they're auditory or visual, are part of the real world, and the distinction between whats real and what's not becomes blurred. That's what makes schizophrenia such a debilitating illness.



that's what I'm saying, that's generally the dreams are for most people, indistinguishable from reality though totally unrealistic.

----------


## The Cusp

Schizophrenic hallucinations are not so much like a dream, but like hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucinations, the stages in between sleep and waking.

While it is possible to control Hypnogogic Imagery to some degree, it's very different than control in a lucid dream.  The influence you have is much more subtle, it's not a direct control.  I think it would be possible for a shizophrenic to learn to control their hallucinations.

----------


## jamous

> Schizophrenic hallucinations are not so much like a dream, but like hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucinations, the stages in between sleep and waking.
> 
> While it is possible to control Hypnogogic Imagery to some degree, it's very different than control in a lucid dream.  The influence you have is much more subtle, it's not a direct control.  I think it would be possible for a shizophrenic to learn to control their hallucinations.



I agree



now I want to be schizophrenic to find out...

maybe not

----------


## imj

> Not to trivialize the sad and disturbing condition of schizophrenia, but what if you were constantly having schizophrenic hallucinations and you knew they were in fact hallucinations, could you control them, like a "lucid schizophrenic" episode?



Have you watched the movie "A Beautiful Mind?" It is based on a real event and portrays John Nash who is Schizophrenic. He was able to ignore his hallucinations and get a normal life. They never went away though... :tongue2: .

IMJ

----------


## ray

yes you can make hallucinations go away with A LOT of practice.most people prefer to ignore them knowing they aren't real.

----------


## ray

Yes, it is possible, with A LOT of practice, to make hallucinations go away(not stop them) but most people prefer to ignore them knowing they aren't real.

----------


## Metaphyz1k

Hmm, in reading this, I thought of an interesting question. Do you think that an avid and accomplished lucid dreamer who, later in his life, acquired schizophrenia or some other form of psychosis could more readily able to train his mind to tell reality from his hallucinations, as he has already trained his mind to do so when dreaming? This is, of course, assuming it is even possible to do so if one is diagnosed with the mental illness. Just a thought.

----------


## Jdeadevil

With Lucid Dreaming though I'm guessing you can overcome stuff like this.  ::?:

----------


## ray

sorry about the double(comp lag)

that is a very interesting question.i think it may be easier?

----------


## Xaqaria

From what I've gathered from the movie, A Beautiful Mind, John Nash managed to do something similar to what you are describing. It seems as though he eventually learned to recognize his hallucinations and ignore them/ force them away.

----------


## jamous

I've read or seen shows on tv about plenty of people that have learned to recognize their schizophrenic hallucinations as such. But I wonder if, with lucid dreaming techniques, a schizophrenic could actually manipulate their hallucinations with their minds maybe even to their benefit..

----------

