# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  What Stops Your WILD Attempts

## Sivason

Even very experienced LDers often fail to make WILD work. What stumbling blocks are you running into? In my case I think my biggest problem is I take sleep aids because I work so much. I often try to WBTB but as soon as I lay back down I am out before I get started.

How about all of you? What has blocked your WILD attempts?

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## Maxis

There's a few things I can think of that makes me fail a WILD attempt, one thing is definitely external noise. I sleep with a white noise machine and simple noises like this aren't a problem (they end up getting tuned out or replaced with some other unreal noise anyway once HH starts), but it's always usually sudden abrupt noises that wake me up--and 99% of the time it's the sound of my dog's collar shaking/ringing. I instinctively wake up to this because my dad brings the dogs outside every morning a few minutes before I'm woken up, and I'm always hearing his collar shaking as he jumps off the bed and now wake up to it. Not so good when he's scratching or moving around in the middle of the night (thankfully he's usually sleeping when I attempt WILD).

Another thing is if I'm not relaxed enough I can't WILD at all. I know this is mostly a requirement for WILD anyway, but it's kind of strange for me as an insomniac I have to be _really, really_ sleepy to be able to succeed. I don't DJ when I wake up and rarely ever use the restroom, at the most I just roll over a bit or scramble for my sleep mask with my eyes still half closed.

Finally, I've had cases of SP during my WILD attempts where sometimes I would go into SP and about 50% of the times this would happen I'd get so scared during it I would eventually try to get unparalyzed and force myself awake since it just wasn't worth the lucid dream. Thankfully, for whatever reason these SP incidents have been fading off overtime and the worst I get mostly nowadays is the sometimes strange HH every typical WILDer gets.

That's about it, I think. It sounds like a lot typing it all out, but thankfully most of my WILDs are successful, since the first problem is just hoping my dog is asleep, the second I simply know to stay relaxed when I wake up, and the third is barely even relevant anymore.

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## pepsibluefan

It's not the fact that I can't do a WILD, its getting there that makes me feel uncomfortable. I really, really don't want to go through SP while experiencing dreadful hallucinations.

Then again I woke up in SP lots of times and never experienced such hallucinations. Maybe weird vibrations, and the rare feeling of electricity going through my body. I was attempting a lot of astral projections a lot back them so I experienced a lot of SP.

Maybe there is nothing to be afraid of. Maybe I could be one of the few that wouldn't hallucinate during SP. If I was going to WILD though and I felt an Astral Protection coming on, I would take that over WILDing into a lucid dream.

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## Maxis

> It's not the fact that I can't do a WILD, its getting there that makes me feel uncomfortable. I really, really don't want to go through SP while experiencing dreadful hallucinations.
> 
> Then again I woke up in SP lots of times and never experienced such hallucinations. Maybe weird vibrations, and the rare feeling of electricity going through my body. I was attempting a lot of astral projections a lot back them so I experienced a lot of SP.
> 
> Maybe there is nothing to be afraid of. Maybe I could be one of the few that wouldn't hallucinate during SP. If I was going to WILD though and I felt an Astral Protection coming on, I would take that over WILDing into a lucid dream.



Most WILDers don't experience SP, in fact I think it's a symptom of some outside sleeping disorder or something (read it somewhere, can't remember from where) or just a rarity that happens very occasionally or sometimes like in your case you wake up into it before your brain realizes you're awake. I don't fully understand it, but I do know SP doesn't happen in most WILD attempts. I've had both cases (having it during WILD and waking up into it) and I think SP in both cases is very similar, so even if you get SP during a WILD attempt and you've had it before and were fine with it then, you shouldn't experience any problems. It's also good to remind yourself that there's really nothing to be afraid of--it can't hurt you and the fear comes from feeling paralyzed which is what causes the awful hallucinations, but ignoring these hallucinations or how you feel and say, thinking of your LDing goals helps to overcome this.

WILD is definitely worth a shot if you're up for something new, I like the vividity of WILD dreams and the high consciousness levels since you do it starting from when you're awake. Even if you try it out once or twice and find it's not your cup of tea, you can at least say you've tried it.  :wink2:

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## StephL

I just want to say thank you for this now - I come to some first insights already, while writing!!
Your thread is an inspiration before it even starts!

thank-you.gif


I mean, it's going to take a while, but I do have problems!


Edit: Having written the upcoming problematic I still thought, I'd be post number 2 - will read back!

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## Looke

I think there is a lot of truth in what Maxis said about sleep paralysis being related to an out side disorder, i only ever experience it after a lucid dream then normally astral project from it. Never during WILD have i come across anything scary, abstract and unbelievable hallucinations have been apparent but not anything dark and scary.

Looke (:

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## strumlifeaway

I have only ever had one successful WILD, and honestly I couldn't tell you what it is that I did that resulted in that success. I have tried the same things since then and I can always gets too a moderate stage of vibrations, and while I enjoy that sensation, I have a hard time completing the process and actually making it into a dream. I am still very new at all of this though, so I hope that I will continue to make progress and eventually get the hang of it. That being said the biggest distraction for me is also noises. I find that I do much better when I'm wearing earplugs and a face mask to block out external distractions.

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## pepsibluefan

> Most WILDers don't experience SP, in fact I think it's a symptom of some outside sleeping disorder or something (read it somewhere, can't remember from where) or just a rarity that happens very occasionally or sometimes like in your case you wake up into it before your brain realizes you're awake. I don't fully understand it, but I do know SP doesn't happen in most WILD attempts. I've had both cases (having it during WILD and waking up into it) and I think SP in both cases is very similar, so even if you get SP during a WILD attempt and you've had it before and were fine with it then, you shouldn't experience any problems. It's also good to remind yourself that there's really nothing to be afraid of--it can't hurt you and the fear comes from feeling paralyzed which is what causes the awful hallucinations, but ignoring these hallucinations or how you feel and say, thinking of your LDing goals helps to overcome this.
> 
> WILD is definitely worth a shot if you're up for something new, I like the vividity of WILD dreams and the high consciousness levels since you do it starting from when you're awake. Even if you try it out once or twice and find it's not your cup of tea, you can at least say you've tried it.



 Thank you! The biggest challenge to making a WILD successful is overcoming the dead zone. What is the dead zone?



It is the stage in sleep where you can suddenly loose consciousnesses if you aren't alert or expecting it. It can come quickly and when you least expect it. It usually comes around five minutes or so while trying to sleep. There is no sign of it when is going to happen, you just hold on as you know its coming. Try your very best to make it through the dead zone.

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## StephL

Problem:
I can't fall asleep.

If I put an alarm for WBTB - what I do is lie on my back.
This is a sleeping position, which I always have avoided - it did keep me up all night, almost, in hospital when I was young.

But my usual position on my stomach, head to the side, so that my face is free on the cushion, and the opposite arm up. 
This is not comfortable, when I am conscious of it - and I keep conscious of it because of that.
Same as on the side - if I want to forget my body - these are positions, where always something will start to nerve like asymmetric pressures.
Don't know, why I can fall asleep perfectly well in my preferred one, and okay in the second.

Maybe I should forget all technique and try to step back from my thoughts, and from forming images on the back of my eyes, or paying attention to the senses in cycles, or mantraing or what ever else?
Maybe I should just really only try to fall asleep on my back??
I don't even know, if I can - I always rolled over.
What do you think?

I have a problem with using earplugs as well - something like psoriasis only in the external ear canal.. ::roll:: 
But I guess, I will have to experiment there further after reading it repeatedly - it is never really quiet when I sleep.

I started typing yesternight - and came to describe all I got in the almost WILD department - sorry for the wall of text - but I thought, maybe you have ideas/insights/tips for me according to it.

The second time ever, I tried to WILD - within 2 min. I had intense vibrations, and the vision of an electric blue mandala hanging in space and blackness - about a meter behind my closed eyelids.
So I thought jippeee! This is going to be easy.

It was so surprising and something completely new in terms of experiences - I forgave myself for jumping up, after they had diminished to tell my husband.
Little did I know, that all following attempts over the last months would have to get re-defined as only WBTB with various approaches, which sometimes yielded DILDs.
But I was lazy with - basically everything else.

So lately I did a bit more daytime things - and as you know, I had an alarm non-LD to LD DEILD, which felt a bit "wildy" (on my stomach).
There was a peaceful blackness and scenery appearing - not seamlessly like the two LD DEILDs I had, it appeared like through a camera-seeker, an oval, half a meter times one in etwa - and then it all snapped together with me in it.
No vibrations, and I didn't try to move of course.

But shortly afterwards, lately - a normal WBTB WILD try yielded for the second time these curious vibrations, without visuals.
Despite being aware of the fact, that HH is not the destination - it gave me fresh hope!
Both these times, where I got vibrations, I had just been looking for and finding movement and bit of colour and patterns on the back of my eyelids..

Despite writing it so - in hindsight - this second time, they just faded away and left me awake - not excitement really.

Then something else happened one time directly at bedtime some days ago, and weeks before there was the same thing in WBTB.
I didn't have these HH/HIs, but from almost nothing, very intense vivid scenes turned up, also not "whole screen" - but there was such a strange emotional/bodily reaction connected - I sort of violently bounced away from them, after feeling a strong surge towards them.
Repeatedly.
Like - I always had to start over again for a minute - I was making colours and shapes and movement appear - but nothing nice - messy weird, swirly - and then they flashed up - 5 times - always a different scene.
And every time, I thought_ now_ I am psychologically/mentally prepared - nope. Was not. At all.
Completely different sort of excitement - not novelty or fascination - it was sort of physical too - around the chest, more like maybe what bliss means.
But then - is bliss not supposed to lie beyond the purely emotional concepts of positive or negative?
I felt something positive.

My from-non-LD-DEILD also entailed a scene appearing and engulfing me - but that was really peaceful, and really did take me on.
Maybe that emotion simply was the W in ILD, instead of the DE as in DEILD?
I came to latch on to one of the several interpretations of these ongoings, which Sageous presented -pointing towards me having gone into a nREM WILD. While writing this here, though - it "sounds" more like a normal WILD fail?

But directly going to bed?
I'd like to know, if you would say, these two vibrational instances, and the other two with these bounces - are they basically the same, or rather is one maybe nREM?

Sorry again - I should have sorted this out better and compacted it..

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## pepsibluefan

--StephL-- How long have you been doing this for? The attempts at least. It sounds like you where getting close. Have you by chance tried meditation?

 It could be that either you are getting too excited while doing it, or haven't practiced and done it enough. Meditation could teach you to learn to relax better while totally consciousness and aware.

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## FryingMan

Stopper #1: can't fall asleep (another one).   I wake up very quickly, especially in the range of 5-6 hours after bedtime.   Before that I can almost always get back to sleep quickly, and even after that, if I really seriously stubbornly do my relaxation until I fall asleep (can take hours), then I'm on "sleep intertia" and can keep sleeping into afternoon no problem (but awareness is low for some reason after about 8 hours).  What to do?   Wake up earlier than 5 hours?    Minimize activity ala Maxis, perhaps?

Stopper #2: get too excited as the transition approaches.   When my head starts getting that "lucid feeling" and the body noise (ragged breathing, jerking eyes, "all-body buzz") hits, I just have not been able to stay calm enough to fall into the dream.  Eventually these sensations subside and I'm left fully awake, argh!   My plan here is to try and totally "let go" the next time this happens and aim for unconsciousness, and hopefully I'll land lucidly in the dream, (or at least, non-lucidly, and hope for a DILD) as opposed to waking up.  We'll see.   Suggestions appreciated.

Stopper #3: there's no dream there!   One time I felt like I was lucid, but I was left staring at my eyelids until the feeling subsided.  Not sure what happened there.   Sageous posited I had no "usable REM" left (as it happened late in the morning).

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## StephL

> --StephL-- How long have you been doing this for? The attempts at least. It sounds like you where getting close. Have you by chance tried meditation?
> 
>  It could be that either you are getting too excited while doing it, or haven't practiced and done it enough. Meditation could teach you to learn to relax better while totally consciousness and aware.



Thank you!
Since four months - but not every night - maybe a third of the nights?
And I did indeed yesterday try out to meditate for some minutes in the day - just focus on my breath and on distancing myself from my thoughts - did me very good, I felt immensely refreshed and had quieted down my mind.
Will try to keep it up!

I would love to be able to WILD, because I am afraid, I won't keep up working for DILD, and being unsure of the results - latest when I start working full-time again, the next month or two.
Being assured of being able to do that, would really boost all sorts of other practices' motivation.
Wrong way round, I know..

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## StephL

Guys - I don't understand, what you are saying:





> It's not the fact that I can't do a WILD, its getting there that makes me feel uncomfortable. I really, really don't want to go through SP while experiencing dreadful hallucinations.
> 
> *Then again I woke up in SP lots of times and never experienced such hallucinations.* Maybe weird vibrations, and the rare feeling of electricity going through my body. *I was attempting a lot of astral projections a lot back them so I experienced a lot of SP.
> *
> Maybe there is nothing to be afraid of. Maybe I could be one of the few that wouldn't hallucinate during SP. *If I was going to WILD though and I felt an Astral Protection coming on, I would take that over WILDing into a lucid dream.*



Pepsibluefan - did you only _attempt_ to do what you call AP, or did you actually manage something of that sort?
Did you do a WILD yet?
Sounds you didn't try the latter from fear of the transition, while coming close to a transition for what you call AP, and it was completely harmless.

Isn't it basically the same as a WILD - so you maybe did it already - or at least were at the door and found out, that you don't suffer from any hallucinations from it. There's nothing other to fear with WILD.
It should be the exact same thing, except the interpretation of the experience differs according to personal belief-system.






> I think there is a lot of truth in what Maxis said about sleep paralysis being related to an out side disorder, *i only ever experience it after a lucid dream then normally astral project from it.* Never during WILD have i come across anything scary, abstract and unbelievable hallucinations have been apparent but not anything dark and scary.
> 
> Looke (:



And Looke - you didn't say "attempt" - you say you _do_ astral project from waking up into SP from a lucid.
That in my view would be a DEILD - a sort of easier WILD, since you are already in a deeper state of mind, so to speak.
You seem to say, there is a difference between WILD and what you call AP. 
And you don't get hallucinations from both. Or didn't you WILD yet in your differentiation of phenomena?
What would be the difference for you - except you do the AP from waking from an LD?
Do you differentiate, because what you call WILD comes from the fully waking state - or do you mean something else?


Would be three cases of no hallucinations with SP in this thread - same here - but I only know it from waking from an LD.
But I didn't WILD yet - and naturally from how I interpret stuff - no AP either.

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## MisakaMikoto

> Thank you! The biggest challenge to making a WILD successful is overcoming the dead zone. What is the dead zone?
> 
> 
> 
> It is the stage in sleep where you can suddenly loose consciousnesses if you aren't alert or expecting it. It can come quickly and when you least expect it. It usually comes around five minutes or so while trying to sleep. There is no sign of it when is going to happen, you just hold on as you know its coming. Try your very best to make it through the dead zone.



Any good methods to go throught dead zone?

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## Plashanko

> Any good methods to go throught dead zone?



Just got to stay alert and aware of what's happening!  ::D:

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## Azaleaj

I succeeded the second time I tried to have a WILD and mistakenly thought this meant I would continue to have them. I've tried dozens of times since then but always fall asleep. The closes I've gotten is a couple of episodes of sleep paralysis, some auditory hallucinations and a few DEILDs.

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