# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  Barry's DILD course workbook

## Barry

Hello my name is Barry and I'm 19, I've been on this site for 2 years but have just got back to lucid dreaming two weeks ago. 2 years ago I had 8 lucid dreams, 3 which lasted more than a couple of seconds. All of them were from DILD. 
Currently, I question whether I'm dreaming several times a day, followed by looking around to see if there is anything unusual, I then do a nose plug reality check. I also think about lucid dreaming a lot during the day, and visit dreamviews daily. I have a dream journal were I write down my dreams every time I remember them, this is usually 2 a night on average now, although I didn't remember a dream this morning, as I had to get up early for college. During the last week all of my dreams I've remembered have been between 7-10am. I have had 2 lucid dreams since I returned LDing, the first one I can barely remember. On Sunday night I did MILD just before I fell asleep at about midnight. I then woke up at 7, did a MILD and had a false awakening, I realized it was a dream when my brother came in my room, I did a nose plug reality check and tried to get out of bed immediately, but I woke up after a few seconds, I believe because of excitement. Next time I'm going to examine my hands and try to calm down before I do anything. I have had two non-lucids which have featured lucid dreams. The first one, a DC told me I was dreaming, he the pushed me off a building and I woke up. The second one I went into a shop that had lucid dreaming shirts. I am motivated and confident I will have much more lucids very soon! 
My short term aim is to have my first lucid dream in 2 years that lasts more than a couple of seconds, my medium term aim is to have 1-2 lucid dreams per week, my ultimate goal is too have a lucid dream every night.

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## fogelbise

Welcome to the workbooks Barry!  :smiley:  You can definitely (and I have no doubt you will) have longer LD's! That is great that you have logged so many dream journal entries here on DV! 





> Currently, I question whether I'm dreaming several times a day...



Have you considered a reminder to help you do this more times during the day? I use the random reminder that is part of the "Awoken" app for android devices but I am sure there are truly random reminders for iphone as well (a google search for "random reminder iphone app" turns up quite a few and some of them, at least, must be truly random). It can help you get into a regular habit until it becomes more natural.

It sounds like MILD is working for you. Have you experimented with different WBTB times? You may only want to do them when you can afford to sleep in.

Let me know if you have any questions and if you like the advice here or anywhere on the forums, don't forget to hit the *like button below.  :smiley:

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## Barry

Hello, 

I am definitely confident I can start having longer LD's! I record every single dream I remember onto DV, it's kind of a routine  :smiley: 

I did think about it, but I usually think about LDing so I never forgot, but I suppose an alert would be much more random, so yeah I'll give that a go.

MILD does seem to be working, the only problem is It takes me ages to sleep when I'm MILDing, but I'll mix DILD and MILD every now and again. Waking up at 7 and going back to sleep seems most effective, this is the time I had my first LD in 2 years, and when I seem to remember most of my dreams. I can sleep in most days so that's not a problem.

I had a dream last night that I had a lucid dream, I then 'woke' up in my dream and told someone about having a lucid dream, it was weird. Is it normal for on so many occasions not to become lucid when it's staring me in the face!?

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## Barry

Just two normal dreams yesterday, my dream recall has not been as good as I've wanted these last couple of days, so I'm going to focus more on that. My next short term goal is to get a lucid before day 21 of my return.

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## fogelbise

Waking up at 7 seems to be your sweet spot, then. Great job figuring that out.  :smiley: 

Dreaming about lucid dreaming can be a good sign, so don't be discouraged. Unfortunately it is normal. Even with all the LD's I have had I still get those and other clear dream signs that I completely miss.

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## gab

Welcome back, Barry!

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## Barry

I got back into lucid dreaming about 2 weeks ago, during the first week I started building up my dream recall. If I stop writing down my dreams I remember virtually nothing. I'm now remembering 1-3 dreams per night. For the last week I've started doing reality checks, and MILD before I go to sleep. Last night I set my alarm at 5am, 7am and 9am, which is the period I remember most my dreams. I planned to wake up, write down a dream, do MILD and go back to sleep. I instead woke up at 4am and 6:30 am which kind of messed me up. I will be doing this for another week at least, and am confident I will get my first lucid dream since coming back. In the past, I've given up but hope to stick around at it for a long time this time.

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## Barry

Last night was better, I had much better recall. I will be doing this for another 12 days, I will then review the situation.

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## FryingMan

Hi Barry,
   You may want to try dedicating yourself for a longer period of time.   It can take up to several months to start to see the results of regular day and night practice in increasing lucidity.   It's great that you have increasing dream recall, I recommend you keep working on recall and add in daytime awareness work.   If you can find a way to integrate daytime awareness into your  waking life, then that taken together with improving dream recall can improve the quality of your non-lucids, keeping you entertained and motivated while you're waiting for the lucids to appear.

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## Barry

> Hi Barry,
>    You may want to try dedicating yourself for a longer period of time.   It can take up to several months to start to see the results of regular day and night practice in increasing lucidity.   It's great that you have increasing dream recall, I recommend you keep working on recall and add in daytime awareness work.   If you can find a way to integrate daytime awareness into your  waking life, then that taken together with improving dream recall can improve the quality of your non-lucids, keeping you entertained and motivated while you're waiting for the lucids to appear.



Hi Fryingman,
I do plan on continuing this for months, it's just that in previous attempts when I've got back into lucid dreaming, it's took me 2-3 weeks to get my first lucid, but I certainly won't give up if it takes longer than this. I question whether I'm dreaming, and do rc's during the day, like looking around seeing if anything looks odd, doing the nose plug rc, and the clock rc. Is there anything else I can do during the day to increase lucidity chances? yes I will continue making sure I work on my dream recall.

Thanks.

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## FryingMan

Barry,
  That sounds like a good approach.   You can go all out and really try to constantly stay aware of your state (dream/waking), but if you do your critical questioning with genuine attention several times a day then that's certainly a good way to get going.

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## Barry

Thanks Fryingman, I'm also planning on doing a micro-WBTB at 6am every morning, I usually sleep at 12:30-1am.

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## Barry

I was telling DC's about a dream in my dream today, so I'm taking that as a good sign. I'm confident I'll have my first lucid since coming back within the next 2 weeks.

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## FryingMan

^^ That's a great sign, yes lucidity is just around the corner, I agree!

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## Barry

In my dream last night I got a Facebook message from a friend about something that happened in a previous dream. Later on in the dream, I also thought about another dream I used to have. 

Dreaming is definitely featuring in my dreams, hopefully one of the times I'll think 'this could be a dream too.'

I'm confident that a lucid is not too far away.

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## FryingMan

Dreaming about dreaming is a sure sign that you're just about to get lucid!   Before my first lucid, I dreamt both that my mother was saying that so-and-so "was a lucid dreamer," I also "watched" a neighbor woman lucid dream: I could see her dream images and knew that she was creating them from her imagination.   Just two nights ago I dreamt about a "lucid" option to a pie on a restaurant menu!

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## Barry

> Dreaming about dreaming is a sure sign that you're just about to get lucid!   Before my first lucid, I dreamt both that my mother was saying that so-and-so "was a lucid dreamer," I also "watched" a neighbor woman lucid dream: I could see her dream images and knew that she was creating them from her imagination.   Just two nights ago I dreamt about a "lucid" option to a pie on a restaurant menu!



I hope so  :smiley: 

haha that menu thing is weird, I had a dream a few months ago that I walked into a lucid dream shop, as i mentioned in my first post on here.

Also, if you don't mind, could you give me steps on everything you do on an average day for lding? 

I just want to know if If theres anything I'm missing.

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## FryingMan

Yeah I woke up right after that lucid pie thing and actually said out loud "_Lucid pie_!?  You've got to be f^&*ing *kidding* me!" [that I missed it!]

On your request: that's a tall order!  I know that I often wish to see the same thing from advanced lucid dreamers.   But many times they're reluctant to do so.  I sort of understand why: lucid dreaming is intensely personal, a practitioner really needs to make their own way through the wilderness and discover what works best for them.  Sensei says that if you follow someone, you'll fall short of where they are (because their path is their own).  Another reason is: maybe they're not very organized themselves!    Or, maybe they're not sure what they do!

But I hate that answer and think it's a bit of a cop out so won't leave it at just that  :smiley: .

For my approach to dream recall, see the link to my tips in my signature.

For my general approach to lucidity, see the link right next to the recall tips in my signature "Memm's no-technique."   That entire thread represents my current approach, you may want to review it.   The key words are in my signature: "Breathing, Mindfulness, WBTB, Confidence, Dedication, *Memory*"

In a nutshell: you need day work and night work.  Breaking these down further:

Day work: build strong awareness, exercise access to memory, cultivate expectation ("woohoo, can't wait for bedtime, awesome dreams toNIGHT!"), build excitement, stay positive

Night work: set intention to recognize the dream state/realize you're dreaming [at bedtime and every time you wake], WBTB, notice wakings, recall dreams, WILD attempts, frame the point of the night as being for dreaming and for rest, not unconscious blacking out until morning.

build strong awareness: pay attention to yourself and life, don't be a zombie.  Meditate (pick a format that you like), e.g., focus on the breath/being aware of awareness.   The key thing is to practice over and over and over recognizing when your mind has wandered, and gently bringing it back into focus.   Question your state every single chance you get.   Try to keep a running mental subtext of determining what your state is (dream/awake).

exercise access to memory: Sageous RRC (memory part: what was I doing 15 minutes ago?), dream recall, waking life recall

About being worried about "missing something:" As long as you're working on the fundamentals, however you're doing it, you're in good shape.

Probably the most important meta-fundamental: Never quit!   Dreaming and lucid dreaming is the most awesome discipline -- it takes effort spent consistently over time to build the ability higher and higher, just like in any worthwhile endeavor.   Wouldn't you rather be 1, 2, 5, 10 years down the road, enjoying the benefits of having practiced diligently for all that time?     The time will pass anyway!     Don't get frustrated, every day spent working on LDing is a day in the bank of your experience and building your ability.  

Hope that helps!  Let me know if you have any questions.

*fogelbise*, feel free to chime in on the theme of "a day in the life of a practicing lucid dreamer…."

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## Barry

Thanks for that, yes maybe I should find my own way. I will check out the links. As you and others have said constantly checking your state does seem to be very important, so I will make sure I keep that up and possibly do it more.

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## FryingMan

Basically in the beginning, try a bunch of different things.   Experimentation is key, constantly evaluate what "clicks" with you and what doesn't.  But you have to take a long-term approach, since results take a while to appear, so it's not immediately obviously what "works."   As long as you're focused on the fundamentals (awareness, memory, recall, expectation, intention, effort, etc.), and eventually settle on your own approach, you'll do great!

As you recall more and more dreams, you'll really internalize the truth that at any conscious moment, you could actually be in the dream state.   That will drive and motivate an honest critical questioning of your state.

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## fogelbise

> *fogelbise*, feel free to chime in on the theme of "a day in the life of a practicing lucid dreamer…."



I have to change up my day practices a little from time to time to keep them at least somewhat potent. Day practices usually involve RRC, RC, reflecting on the fact that I am he who is aware of my awareness, visualizing myself from different vantages, and really stopping during awareness check-ins. I also like to mix in "If I were lucid right now, I would..." and imagining "this is all a dream!" If I feel burned out I may just do a few of these things until I dig up some inspiration  like finding the beauty around me or reading my dream journals.

Nighttime: WBTB almost always whether quick or longer. I used to always use SSILD and sometimes mix in dream sign and or lucid mantras. Lately I find more enjoyment playing with dreams I just had and imagining becoming lucid or just trying to go into a specific dream or return to a dream from the night especially if I am not doing a proper wakeful WBTB and I instead stay much more with a "dreamy" mind. It is less effective so far but easy to go back to sleep. I tend to use this for awakenings that are earlier than 4.5 hours especially or if I feel under rested.

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## Barry

*Update*

It's been 19 days since I've got back to Lucid dreaming. Still not had an LD yet since returning, I'm slightly frustrated I must admit, but I know I shouldn't be.

*Reality checks*

I've decided to stop using the Lucid dream app today, it would alert me every hour to do a reality check, but It's not really random, and I want to more reality checks during the day and at times I think are better.

I still ask myself If I'm dreaming, then look around to see if anything looks unusual. I follow that up by looking at my hand twice, to look for any changes. I then do a nose plug to confirm I'm not dreaming.

*Dream Recall*

Today I recorded 1 dream, but yesterday I recorded 4 dreams which is kind of a record for me, so that's good.

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## FryingMan

Given that you've been away for 2 years, it's probably not unexpected that it would take time similar to a complete beginner to get your first lucid.  If you're working really assiduously every day and night, the average seems to be around 4 weeks until the first LD.   Some people sooner, some people later.    Keep up the awareness work, but really focus on dream recall in the beginning.    Recording 4 dreams is great, congrats!

Remember, if you really want to boost recall, learn to notice nighttime wakings, this gives you multiple opportunities to work on recall in a night.

Yes, I think it's best to rely on your own sense of "it's time to do an RC," and you want to try to get to this point more and more frequently during the day.

I think it is better not to complete the thought and conclude "I'm not dreaming" when doing an RC.    If an RC indicates "awake" for me, I'll think "hmm, interesting, the next time I'm dreaming, I remember to recognize I'm dreaming".    Once in a while I'll just do a "fake" RC and always conclude "I'm dreaming!" to make sure the results from the RC aren't always "awake."   I don't do it a lot, but once in a while.

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## Barry

When I first started it took me 5 weeks to get my first lucid, so that sounds about right. Then it took me 4 weeks to get my 2nd, and then 9 days to get my 3rd! I really wish I hadn't quit, but college got in the way and I got lazy. I did exactly the same back then, but when I got my 2nd and 3rd LD I was really confident, so that may be the difference.

I'm not good at recognizing nighttime wakings, so I'll work on that. I'll wake up briefly for a few seconds and then I'll fall asleep, so I'm planning on using an alarm, that way I'll have to turn it off, and I'll remember to write down my dreams. I know alarms aren't great for recall, but it's better than getting nothing down. 

I'll say 'awake' then instead, as saying 'I'm not dreaming' was exactly what I was doing. I'll aim to do it 20+ times a day. That fake RC sound interesting, I'll give that a go every now and again then.

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## FryingMan

The nice thing about just saying "I'm dreaming!" is you can then practice your "just got lucid ritual" -- quick stabilization, review goals, look around before running off, etc.

I would still recommend saying nothing if your RC indicates awake.   One thing to remember is that if you think you might be dreaming, you don't want to stop doing RCs until you prove you're dreaming -- do a bunch of them and really look around.  The thing you want to avoid is a quick "ah, awake" and then just return to the dream.   That's why you do not want to rehearse thinking "awake" or "not dreaming," IMO.

You can learn to notice wakings with intent and practice.  If it's important to you, you'll wake up all through the night, just like the night before a big test or some important early morning appointment.   Recreate the same feeling of importance and you won't need an alarm.   Try it with an alarm to start with (a gentle one!) if you must, but I recommend working on non-alarm as well.

You're very young yet, so you have decades of awesome dreaming ahead of you.   Don't feel rushed, just dedicate yourself to the practice and don't quit!   However long it takes, it's worth the wait!

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## Barry

*25/02/2015 - Great recall, and Lucid Dream Class*

I'm feeling much more confident today, I remembered 5 dreams last night, and one of them featured a lucid dream class.

Here's the lucid class part of my dream:

'The class turned in to a lucid dream class, we were given a leaflet giving us tips on Lucid dreaming. The class ended and we left, I saw two school friends leaving. There jumpers had text on it related to dreaming.'

This dream occurred after a WBTB, I fell asleep at around 7am, then woke up at 7:50 and I remember two dreams.

If the past is anything to go by, a lucid will follow shortly!

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## FryingMan

Awesome, you're really close, keep it up!

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## fogelbise

> You're very young yet, so you have decades of awesome dreaming ahead of you.   Don't feel rushed, just dedicate yourself to the practice and don't quit!   However long it takes, it's worth the wait!



This is so true! Also try not to stress as that seems to impair getting lucid dreams.

I agree that alarms to remind you to RC are not as good as more naturally prompted RC's, but if you are having trouble getting enough I can give you a few different ideas. (Sorry, I'm a few posts behind on this thread. I started responding yesterday and got super busy.)

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## Barry

Three weeks since I got back in to lucid dreaming now, it took me 5 weeks to get my first LD when I first started back in 2012, so hopefully within the next 2 weeks the LD will come. I know when I get that Lucid dream my confidence will go up and my 2nd should come much quicker.

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## FryingMan

I'm sure your next lucid is just around the corner!    It's good to think long-term about lucid dreaming.   With growing awareness (basically, lucidity) in waking life, and improving dream recall, memory function, etc., lucidity in dreams will occur more and more.   And the dreaming experience in non-lucids, too, will become more vivid and present (feeling like you're really there).   Keep up the work, positive attitude, really enjoying the entire process, and you'll start to notice improvements.   Consistency is key...

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## Barry

Ordered some galantamine and Choline to help me get a DILD, does it still work if you take it before you go to sleep instead of WBTB?

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## FryingMan

Barry, before you take any supplements, I strongly suggest that you read this book:

Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements Paperback – by Thomas Yuschak

He tells you how they work in the brain, how to take them safely (as much as can be done: summary: start slowly with minimal doses, and not in combination in the beginning [one at a time]) and effectively.

Supplements can help produce a brain chemistry environment where very vivid dreams occur, but it's still up to you and your LD practices to get lucid given those vivid dreams.   Many people (me included) have gotten "lost" in the fascinating dreams that result.    You need to be setting intent to get lucid so that you remember that is your goal.

I generally don't recommend beginners take supplements, because you're still trying to figure out the basis of your own practice, what does and does not work for you.  Supplements can interfere with that.   I generally think "once in a while" is OK, but I think natural development is the best.

I know you want the dreams right now, but trust me, they will come if you put in the work and the dedication, over time.  Lucid dreaming is not a "instant gratification" discipline, it requires taking the long-term view and making a long-term commitment.

Super short summary (still, read Yuschak!): best usage is take the galantamine + choline after 4-6 hours of sleep (depending on your sleep patterns) at WBTB time.   Taking at bedtime causes the effect to peak before your main dreaming periods of the night, and may prevent you from falling asleep at all.

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## Barry

Okay thanks Fryingman, I'll read the book. I was only planning on taking 4mg Galantamine and 250mg Choline.

I am still planning on working hard, I just thought I'd try it for a boost.

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## Barry

The supplements have arrived, going to take them 5 hours after sleep.

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## Barry

Whooooo! I had a lucid dream about 20 minutes ago! It was what some people call an O.B.E as well. I had zero control though and I couldn't get back down to the ground as I had flown out of my body towards the ceiling. It felt like I was pulled out of the dream really fast, I 'woke up' in a completely random room, I was still at the ceiling and couldn't get down. I'm still happy though, never experienced something like this before. I only took 4mg galantamine too!

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## FryingMan

Congrats!      In my 2nd LD I started floating up to the "ceiling" uncontrollably, but I started rubbing my hands together and that brought me down to the ground again, and had a really nice time walking around the dream scene.

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## Barry

I rubbed my hands together but it didn't do anything, I even shouted 'stabilise now' but it didn't work!

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## fogelbise

Congrats! Just know that every LD is likely to be different in some way so  no worries that it will always be like that. With one like yours I tend to just see where the dream pulls me but you could also rub the ceiling, stand up on the ceiling or "know" that you will float straight through. Patience is big I feel.

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## Barry

Took 8mg galantamine this morning, took me ages to get to sleep, and when I did I kept waking up after 10 minutes, think I'm going to stick with 4mg. I'm currently taking it every other night. Really weird dream though, I woke up in a bed and it was snowing outside, later I was skiing, but I was convinced I was only imagining this, and I was still in bed. Then I started trying to WILD in my dream while I was skiing!  ::wtf2::  :Confused: 

I'm still performing reality checks and dream journaling.

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## FryingMan

Barry, Yuschak writes that galantamine *should not be taken more than once every 4 days*, unless you're also taking piracetam to counter the desensitization (I personally don't recommend that -- seems like too much supplementing, just my personal opinion).  Otherwise you risk becoming desensitized to galantamine, and perhaps other neurotransmission effects, possibly affecting natural dreaming.

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## Barry

oh right, I'll take it every 4 days from now on, thought every other night was fine.

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## FryingMan

> Barry, before you take any supplements, I strongly suggest that you read this book:
> 
> Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements Paperback  by Thomas Yuschak







> Okay thanks Fryingman, I'll read the book.







> Yuschak writes that galantamine should not be taken more than once every 4 days







> oh right, I'll take it every 4 days from now on, *thought every other night was fine*.



Barry -- looks like there's some an as-yet-unfinished reading assignment out there  :smiley: .    Yuschak is well-worth reading, please do before diving deeper in to supplements.

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## Barry

I skimmed read it! I missed the piracetam bit  :Big laugh: 

I've been practicing for a nearly a month naturally, get no LD's, then a take galantamine and have an LD instantly, so you can see why it's tempting  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Oh, I understand why it's tempting.   I'm not saying don't use G, I'm saying understand what it's about and how to use it responsibly.

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## Barry

I had two lucid dreams this morning, both only lasted a few seconds. I was semi-lucid for a while though in the first one, a part of me knew it was a dream, but I wouldn't count it as a lucid. The dream continued normally for a bit. I ended up falling and getting stuck in a canal, I thought 'maybe this is real', then I became properly lucid and thought 'no, it's a dream. I can do anything I want'. I shouted fly and I flew out of the canal. I was about to rub my hands to try and stabilize the dream, but I noticed my foot was caught on a fence, I tried to free it but I fell and woke up. In my second dream, I was in my brothers room (his room has two doors), Someone I knew appeared at the door way, but then simultaneously appeared at the other door way. As if he had a clone. I did a hand reality check, but my hand looked normal (to my dream brain anyway) I had doubts and thought maybe it was my Dad I saw. I did the hand reality check again and noticed some of my fingers looked weird, one was a weird shape and was black at the end of the finger. I got up out my chair and then I woke up. I know all the dream control techniques, it's just I seem to forgot when in my dream. I suppose I could start pretending I'm dreaming, and practicing doing the dream control tecniques. Still searching for that elusive 5+ minute LD, but at least I'm making progress!

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## FryingMan

Great progress, congrats!   In fact I do recommend practicing becoming lucid when awake: rehearse your "I'm dreaming!" moment: plan exactly what you want to do and think.   I generally start with hand rubbing while looking slowly around the surroundings and counting slowly to 5 once or twice, and I also like to pat down my body (chest/stomach/legs) quickly to bring my dream body into the dream.   These days I'm also trying to remember that my physical body is asleep in bed in the waking world, and that the entire current experience is a fantasy happening entirely inside my mind.

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## Barry

Had another lucid dream this morning and it was the best one for 3 years! It was still short, maybe 30 seconds, but the others were only a couple of seconds. It started of as a common dream, I was playing a game but I was inside of it. I was in a house, two people I knew in real life were also in the house and saw me. One of them picked up a draw and slammed it on my head. I got up as if nothing happened and the guy told me I should wake myself up. This is when I became lucid. I realised the house was/looked very similar to my grandmas house. I wiped my hands together and looked at them to stabilise and increase vividness. I walked outside, I took a moment to look around, everything looked detailed. I was on a street, a couple of people were walking past. I then started to fly, the air was really cold, I think because it was the night. I flew to the end of the street in to darkness, I was wondering what my brain would come up with. I then woke up.

Funny thing is, I woke up late about 7:30am, I had planned to take Galantamine and Choline at 4-5am. I was annoyed and didn't take them as I had to be up in a couple of hours. I fell back asleep and became lucid naturally! Thank you for all your help Fryingman!  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Good job, congrats, and keep it up!

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## Barry

Nearly got lucid again last night, I remember looking at my hands and I think I had six fingers, not sure why that didn't make me lucid. I then saw a clock and the clock time was going anti-clockwise. I woke up after this. I'm going on holiday for a week on Friday, I still should be able to do RC checks. But DJing will be difficult since I'm sharing a room. Hopefully won't effect me too much, my recall when I'm not DJing is probably a fragment a month at best!  ::chuckle::

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## fogelbise

You really are coming along nicely! (Great work with all of the excellent advice and guidance FryingMan!)

Do try to keep up day practices and at least mental DJ'ing at awakenings so that you can maintain the gains you've made recently. You can also try DJ'ing on your phone in the bathroom while on your trip. I tend to get over confident from time to time and I start "coasting" and my LD results weaken.

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## Barry

Yeah I'll try to play it over in my mind and write it down later.

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## Barry

Had another lucid dream last night, again it was only a few seconds long. I did the nose plug RC and the hand RC, at first it looked normal, but my fingers started merging together and I had 6+ fingers. I even thought that I was a sleep in bed right now. But as soon as I started walking I lost lucidity. Then I 'woke up' in another dream and on some level still knew it was a dream, probably semi-lucid. But again I woke up. In my past LD's I rub my hands together and try and take a moment before I do anything. I'm going to try the 'anchor' method to try and make my LD's longer, do you guys think this works? and is there any other techniques I can use? 

I also recorded my longest every dream last night, it was nearly a thousand words long. I'm definitely in a good spell at the moment, just need to improve my dream stability and I will be very happy!

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## FryingMan

For stability, rubbing hands works well for me, as does simply enjoying exploring the environment, not worrying about waking up, just moving from mini-goal to mini-goal.   Following the TOTM (task of the month) tasks are a great way to always have something in mind to do.

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## fogelbise

^^Agreed  :smiley:  Rubbing, touching, or chewing anything around you can work as well. It is also good to say out loud "I'm dreaming" at the start and periodically during your dream and again if you feel the dream fading in case you do end up in a new dream scene or FA which can be confusing if you don't remind yourself at the fade or in the void. I am sure FM or I mentioned this already, but it helps to rehearse this during the day a little.

Keep up the good work!!  :smiley:

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## Barry

Just got back from holiday, I recorded dreams on 2/7 days, one of them was semi-lucid. Hopefully it hasn't effected me too much, my dream recall will probably not be as good. I'm going to take G+C tonight.

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## FryingMan

How'd the G+Ch go?

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## Barry

Didn't take it in the end, felt too tired. I may take it tonight.

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## Barry

Went to sleep around 12, woke up at 5am and took G+C, fell asleep around 5:30. Woke up at 6:30 and I'd had the best LD for a long time. It lasted around 3-5 minutes. I was in my swimming pool, I was annoyed that I hadn't slept more as I had took G+C. I looked at my hand and counted 6 fingers. I looked again to confirm. I started getting out of the pool, and remembered to rub my hands together and spin around. I tried to spawn women which failed. So I just flew down my street and across the road. A random busy street appeared and I walked around looking around. There was a restaurant called 'Mcdonalds Mail'. A shop was giving out a sample of meat, I tried it but can't really remember what it taste like. Maybe a bit like ribs. The shop owner argued with me and I lost lucidity. I then fell asleep about 7:30, woke up at 8:30 and I'd had a lucid from an FA. I had gone to bed naked so I couldn't understand why I woke up fully dressed, I did a hand reality check and I had 6+ fingers. I got up from bed and thought about what to do then woke up.

So all in all, a great night for me. The G+C combo really is great if taken every now and again. Getting regular natural lucid dreams is still my ultimate goal. Hopefully I'll get my 100th LD soon!  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Congratulations Barry! You are getting some good experience with these longer LD's. I will see but I may be trying the G (+ C combo) for the first time in the next month or so.

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## Barry

> Congratulations Barry! You are getting some good experience with these longer LD's. I will see but I may be trying the G (+ C combo) for the first time in the next month or so.



Thanks  :smiley: 

I definitely recommend the G+C combo. I only take 4mg G and 250 C, 8mg keeps me up too much.

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## Barry

Took G+C again last night and had two FA's which I was lucid in both. It was a really weird FA too.

It's been 18 days since I've had a natural LD, although I was on holiday for a week where I didn't really try.

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## fogelbise

Congratulations on catching *two FA's* Barry!! In regards to the number of days since a natural LD, do you feel that you have backed off on your fundamental practices and relied on the supplements? I would definitely recommend avoiding doing that and this is a recommendation that I will need to keep in mind as well. 

I tried supplements for the first time last night after about 4 hours and 45 minutes (maybe less depending on how long it took me to get to sleep when I went to bed for the night). I did the 4mg G and 250 C combo and it took me quite a while to get to sleep. I did get a shortish LD after having a memory gap at back to bed but I know the next one in a week or so will be better. I ate way too much processed sugar close to bed time.

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## Barry

> Congratulations on catching *two FA's* Barry!! In regards to the number of days since a natural LD, do you feel that you have backed off on your fundamental practices and relied on the supplements? I would definitely recommend avoiding doing that and this is a recommendation that I will need to keep in mind as well. 
> 
> I tried supplements for the first time last night after about 4 hours and 45 minutes (maybe less depending on how long it took me to get to sleep when I went to bed for the night). I did the 4mg G and 250 C combo and it took me quite a while to get to sleep. I did get a shortish LD after having a memory gap at back to bed but I know the next one in a week or so will be better. I ate way too much processed sugar close to bed time.



Thanks, I think I was lucky in that both FA's were weird. In the first one I saw a dark figure, although I nearly convinced myself I was in sleep paralysis, and the second one I seemed to have a clone! I'm still keeping up my daytime work, reality checks and dream journaling. I have stopped doing MILD though, which I'm going to do again. 

The first time I took G+C I had a short LD, the last two times I took it have been better though. It works best I think if you can get to sleep within an hour of taking it.

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## FryingMan

I love weird FAs.   I sometimes get ejected from the bed by one end suddenly violently lifting up high, pouring me out the lower end.  It makes me instantly lucid, and I don't have to worry about getting stuck in the sheets, etc.

Unweird FAs can be *extremely tricky* to detect, even when coming out from a lucid and even when not in a waking location.  I had one where I so totally felt in bed, there I was in the dark in between the sheets, I just had a sneaking suspicion something wasn't right, did a nose plug, and got up lucid into a small, dark hotel room.   Nose plugged again (because I was up on the 20th floor or so), and then launched myself at the (closed) window, phased through, and flew around an amazing night scene.   FAs can be so cool, I wish I got more of them!

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## Barry

Was G+C morning today, took it at 5am. No lucids but I had my best ever recall, 1100+ words! took me a while to get it all down. At one point I was disappointed in my dream that I hadn't had a lucid that morning as I took G+C, the exact same thing happened a week ago, but in that dream I did an RC after. Also featured in another dream I had a month ago 'I wasn't able to fall asleep as I had took lucid dream supplements', Really weird, even if I don't get lucid, the G+C always gets mentioned in my dreams!

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## Barry

I had my 2nd non-supplement induced lucid dream since I started again 2 months ago, lasted about 10 seconds. My eyes felt weird and I kept blinking which made me think I was going to wake up. I looked around for attractive females, but could only see average looking females! Haha. Anyway I touched a female then started loosing lucidity.

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## FryingMan

Good, keep up the work, that's great progress!   Remember, you don't have to "go looking" for your desired encounter: you can either summon (which is good practice, it's worth spending LD time on perfecting your summoning), or perhaps even easier, transform the DCs that you have right around you.   I usually just "will" them to change in the way I want, sometimes with a mental or verbal reinforcement ("be beautiful!"  etc.)

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## Barry

I have tried saying 'x person will be around the corner' in another LD but it didn't work, I didn't really put much effort in to it though. Transforming DC's sounds easier so I'll try that next time.

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## FryingMan

> I have tried saying 'x person will be around the corner' in another LD but it didn't work, I didn't really put much effort in to it though. Transforming DC's sounds easier so I'll try that next time.



I, too, have had no luck with "around the corner/bush/etc" summons.  But "around the back" summons work great for me, try it out!   Put your hand behind your back, call out to the DC you want to take your hand, like you *know* they're already behind you, and then slowly bring your hand around to in front of you expecting the DC to be there holding your hand.

It has almost never failed for me.  The few times the DC wasn't holding my hand, the DC instead entered "from offstage" very soon thereafter.

Remember, and this is key for any dream control, you're not "making a wish," rather, you're just *discovering* something/someone that *was already there*: you're just "remembering" it.    "Pretend memories" are a great way to drive the narrative of the dream.    When the narrative of the dream matches your desires, dream control works practically without effort.   It takes time and practice to develop this mental framework.   Keep working on it, that's the key to success!

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## Barry

I had a lucid this morning, but it was very low level lucidity. I tried the technique you told me FryingMan, It didn't work but that might have been because the lucid was a poor one. Maybe because it was like 11am, and I'd already had 9+ hours of sleep? I'll try it again next time. Is there any way I can increase my awareness, because only a couple of them have I had decent awareness. In the best lucid I've ever had I was aware of the fact I was asleep in bed, and it lasted what felt like ages, but that was in 2012.

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## FryingMan

Keep increasing awareness in waking life, and paying close attention to your waking day.   Sometimes the timing is just not there for high awareness in dreams.   But keeping in mind the "my physical body is asleep in bed and this experience is all a mental fantasy" should result in the highest sort of lucidity (being fully aware of what is going on) and hopefully activate strong access to memory.    Great that you got lucid, just keep going and building more and more experience.

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## Barry

This morning was great, I woke up at 5am and was thinking about doing MILD but I was lazy and couldn't be bothered. I woke up at 7:30ish and I'd had a lucid dream. I didn't even need to do a reality check in my dream, I just knew I was dreaming. It was about a minute long. I was to lazy to attempt summoning so I just found an attractive women in the shop I was in. I wrote down my dream when I woke up, I fell back asleep around 8:30ish, and I had another lucid dream. I was sat next to Jennifer Aniston, I had a false awakening shortly after.

I was happy enough with one lucid, but two was even better! I've now had 3 lucid dreams in the last 7 days, all naturally induced. Weirdly the last two times I've took G+C I've not become lucid. Do you count multiple LD's a night on your LD count, or just count it as one?

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## FryingMan

I think most people (myself included) count each non-lucid -> lucid transition as a lucid dream.

p.s. congrats!  Keep doing what you're doing!

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## Barry

Okay and  thanks  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

> I've now had 3 lucid dreams in the last 7 days, all naturally induced. Weirdly the last two times I've took G+C I've not become lucid. Do you count multiple LD's a night on your LD count, or just count it as one?



This is great Barry! So you know that you can do it reliably naturally. I know this as well and am hoping future g+c doses just add to the experience but have only tried twice so far and it hasn't been a boost yet (4mg + 250mg so far). 

I agree with FM, count each lucid. The only time I don't if it is a transition within the same REM period like lucid dream scene to the void to lucid dream scene again would be one for me. In your post with the waking in between, that should definitely count as 2! Good job!

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## Barry

Hello, thought I'd post an update.

I went on holiday to Portugal, and since I've come back I've been a bit less focused, and a bit more lazy when it comes to my dream journal. I still write a dream down nearly every day but my recall is much worse. So I'm working on that. Two days ago I had a lucid, but it was a low level one, it came after 3 hours of sleep. Basically the boat I was on in my dream crashed and I was knocked into the air, I didn't want to fall in the water, so I thought 'this is a dream I'll just fly. I flew down a road and into computer text and then woke up, it lasted about 20 seconds. I'm getting a decent amount of lucid a but it's just frustrating there all really low level lucidity. 

The most frustrating and annoying thing happened in my dream this morning though, I was in Majorca and I thought 'I should do a reality check as I dream off Majorca a lot'. But I decided not to as I didn't want my brother to see me do a reality check as he was sat next to me! And yes I've done this in waking life, you got to laugh sometimes!  ::D:

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## FryingMan

Great job on the lucids, keep it up, and yes, work more intensely perhaps on dream recall -- you may want to review my recall tips, the link is in my signature.   Also, review the messages in the "important links" thread in this forum: 

http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/15603...ive-links.html







> But I decided not to as I didn't want my brother to see me do a reality check as he was sat next to me! And yes I've done this in waking life, you got to laugh sometimes!



This is why I never stop myself from RCing in public or in having "lucid moments" when I feel the thought arise.  I just tell myself they're all DCs anyway so who cares.

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## Barry

Since my last update, I have had another two lucid dreams. Both only a few seconds long, the last one I had was this morning after taking G+C, I really struggled to get to sleep though, and my recall was very poor. But I've got more motivated recently, and my aim is 4+ lucids in July, one a week!  ::lol::

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## FryingMan

Good luck with your goals, congrats on your lucids!    Having a well-rehearsed "just got lucid" ritual can help extend the ones that can be saved (meaning you're not already done with dreaming/sleeping).

Try to keep consistent effort on daytime awareness and recall at night, over time these build up to the point where lucidity happens more and more frequently.

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## Barry

Consistency has been by problem recently, mostly with the dream journal. 

But I'm fully dedicated to the cause now!  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Good to see you around here again Barry.  :smiley:  The mindset that really helps me extend many of my LD's when they seem to be fading is: Not following the "normal" path back to my waking body. Try not to over think it. Consciously or unconsciously many people expect to wake up when the dream is fading…really knowing that there is another option seems to open up the option to continue dreaming much more often. I got this idea from Sageous in an NREM discussion and it clicked for me. I like to think of it as floating in the ether…staying with my dream body (usually in the void) knowing that I need not return to my waking body. Sometimes you are just at the end of REM, but don't expect that you are or that "it is over." It is even easier with the G+C combo.

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## Barry

Decided to take the G+Ch last night, like a lot of people I find it hard to sleep after taking it so I never take it too often. It gave me two lucids last night, and I had multiple FA's. My memory of the lucids are a bit foggy, possibly because instead of waking up from the lucids immediately, I instead had a FA and then woke up. But I was definitely lucid. They were both relatively short, 1st one about 10 seconds and the 2nd maybe 20-30 seconds. G+Ch is brilliant though, even on just 4mg and 250 Ch it consistently gives me lucids!





> The mindset that really helps me extend many of my LD's when they seem to be fading is: Not following the "normal" path back to my waking body. Try not to over think it. Consciously or unconsciously many people expect to wake up when the dream is fading…really knowing that there is another option seems to open up the option to continue dreaming much more often.



This happened in my first LD last night, it started to fade and then it got clear again. I decided to wake up though as I had a wet dream  ::rolllaugh::

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## fogelbise

Awesome! I am glad the fade redirect is working for you! Congrats on your LD's!!..and on your cum-pletion…haha. A year or so back I had a sexual LD so convincing that I was sure I was going to wake up to find that I had my first wet dream in decades…alas it wasn't so…haha.

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## Barry

Thanks haha  :smiley: 

Your lucky, I hate wet dreams!

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## Barry

Since I started trying to Lucid dream again in February 2015, I've had 17 lucid dreams, around 10 at least I'd say have been from G+Ch. Kind of disappointing really, but It could be worse I suppose. I took G+Ch again last night, 4mg galantamine + 250 choline. In one of the dreams I got a feeling I was dreaming, and the finger reality check failed twice! but on the 3rd attempt I counted 6 fingers on each hand and became fully lucid. I remained calm, rubbed my hands together and told myself 'this is a dream', but I 'woke up' into an FA before waking up for real. It's a bit frustrating, I'm not sure why I keep waking up!

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## FryingMan

You should consider those as 17 successes, many people try for years and never get lucid at all, so that's quite an achievement!

Waking up "too soon" happens sometimes, particularly in the first bunch of LDs.   Having a pre-planned "just got lucid!" ritual including slowing down, looking around, rubbing your hands, acknowledging your being lucid in a dream, can really help the dreams last longer.    The initial excitement does wear off a bit in time and that helps to maintain the dream longer.

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## Barry

> You should consider those as 17 successes, many people try for years and never get lucid at all, so that's quite an achievement!
> 
> Waking up "too soon" happens sometimes, particularly in the first bunch of LDs.   Having a pre-planned "just got lucid!" ritual including slowing down, looking around, rubbing your hands, acknowledging your being lucid in a dream, can really help the dreams last longer.    The initial excitement does wear off a bit in time and that helps to maintain the dream longer.




Thanks, It's okay I guess, but I want more!  ::lol:: 

I'll add that stuff when I MILD, I've just been doing the rubbing hands bit.

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## FryingMan

> Thanks, It's okay I guess, but I want more!



I totally understand.  So do I!   And not just more, but higher quality.

The key to this is daytime awareness and mindfulness practice.  Pay attention to life, with the idea of always wanting to recognize the dream state.  Try to catch unusual situations right as they happen.   I've been realizing after-the-fact a lot recently that I missed a perfect RC situation.   So try to stay clear and questioning and "tuned in" at all times.

Add to that working for more and more dream recall.   These two together result in vivid, long dreams, and lucidity.   They take time to develop, but stay steady and consistent in your practice.

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## Barry

Did MILD at WBTB last night, ended up having a dream about doing MILD at WBTB  ::rolllaugh:: 

Night before that I had a dream about telling people about a lucid dream book!

I'm confident and dedicated at the moment, so the non supplement induced lucid's will come I'm sure.

I'm going to take 8mg G+Ch tonight, off on holiday for 2 weeks so I won't take it again for a while. Usually only take 4mg. Is 8mg much better than 4mg?

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## FryingMan

> Did MILD at WBTB last night, ended up having a dream about doing MILD at WBTB 
> 
> Night before that I had a dream about telling people about a lucid dream book!
> 
> I'm confident and dedicated at the moment, so the non supplement induced lucid's will come I'm sure.
> 
> I'm going to take 8mg G+Ch tonight, off on holiday for 2 weeks so I won't take it again for a while. Usually only take 4mg. *Is 8mg much better than 4mg?*



For you, only you can say.   What is "better?"   The tradeoffs could involve: getting to sleep faster (more dreaming time) vs. longer, more present dreams vs. not getting to sleep at all.   Hidden tradeoffs may include longer vs. shorter desensitization.

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## Barry

> For you, only you can say.   What is "better?"   The tradeoffs could involve: getting to sleep faster (more dreaming time) vs. longer, more present dreams vs. not getting to sleep at all.   Hidden tradeoffs may include longer vs. shorter desensitization.



I've tried 8mg once before and I had pretty bad sleep, but I'll probably try it again tonight, if I get bad sleep again I'll just stick to 4mg.

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## Barry

Decided on 4mg, didn't get lucid even though:

1. Wished I was dreaming when a teacher asked me a question I didn't know in class
2. There was an icecream on a menu, apparently from Inception
3. My brother was browsing 'Lucidimine pills' (weird, as I don't have this type) 
4. I talked to my brother about lucid dreaming

My brain is frustrating!  ::chuckle::

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## FryingMan

Well it sounds like you were really close, since dreaming about lucid dreaming is a sure sign that lucidity will come very soon.

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## Barry

Unfortunately I stopped practicing about 4 weeks ago after a consistent 6 months  :Sad:  On the bright side I've had 2 lucid dreams in 10 days! God knows how haha, and three lucid dreams in less than a month. I plan to start again slowly, firstly dream journaling again.

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## FryingMan

Congrats on the LDs!   Sometimes we try so hard we exhaust ourselves in our practice, leaving our intention engines out of fuel for the night.  LDing is all about finding the "just right" balance of focus and relaxation.

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## Barry

Had a minute long ld this morning, felt really realistic too!  :smiley:

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