# Lucid Dreaming > Lucid Experiences >  >  Curious about use of Alcohol and Drugs

## danashields

I've been curious about how prominent the use of alcohol and other mind-altering drugs is among lucid dreamers.

I have not done either in about 14 years, and I'm wondering if it has anything to do with this gift? Please answer the poll.

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## Serinanth

My question is whatabout your parents, my parents were both hippies.... They arent any more theyve cut their hair so to speak but back in the day they were...

I Drink on the weekends preferrably Guinness or Fosters.

I smoke herb every now and again

And even more rare I hang out with this funguy named Psilosybe

Alchohol, too much, you dont remember shit, a little bit, lowers inhibitions and ive had a tad more control in dream

Weed too much dont remember shit, just a bit lengthened dreamtimes

Psilosybe....Waking and dream become one and you have vivid as hell dreams for a day or so.

Ive gone cold turkey on all of them just to see what would happen to my dreaming and it did not lessen my abilities, nor did they enhance, I think in moderation they can give you a different perspective each is unique and as such expands your mind to see new things, in different ways... which I think alot of people really need, it helps one see things from others perspectives to a point I think.

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## nerve

[size=9]*pssssst* ....say "o" to rugs!

 ::shock::

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## Serinanth

heeh
 ::roll::   ::wink::

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## nerve

::lol::   it was on a sign, the n and the d wore off so now i tell everyone to say "o" to rugs


actually when we first saw it i stopped before entering the store, looked at the rug that was layin there, and said "o". it was funny.

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## jill1978

I dabble in the booze and herb now and again, and it really hurts my dreaming....but like I've said before when I eat last before I goto bed has the most effect on wether I lucid dream

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## Second Attention

I've read that alcohol and weed can both inhibit REM sleep. I also agree with Serinanth that weed will make it harder to remember dreams. I've come to this conclusion because I have been smoking every day for the last month or so, and when I let off for a few days, my dream recall increased dramatically. It's too bad that my girl left me because since I have paranoid anxiety disorder and am also an insomniac, I have begun to smoke regularly again since I cannot sleep w/o it. I hate feeling dependent on things, but whatever gets me through the day, you know?

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## nerve

ask curios he's a pothead/drunkard..sure he'd know all about the effects

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## wasup

hahaha that was funny

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## luciddreamer

Just wanted to jump in on this thread and add my two cents.  I tend to imbibe rather frequently and when i do, i rarely dream at all. I got right shitfaced last night and did not dream at all, that i can re,meber, and i almost ALWAYS remember. Or it may be due to the fact that i was staying the night at a friends place and was in unusual surroundings. When i can afford it, i smoke pot on a daily basis, as i find it really eases my tension and a lot of the anxiety that is inherent in my personality. Besides the herb is just a wonderful thing for me to partake of. Happy Tommy! In relation to dreaming, if i am away form the booze and stick to the herbage alone, i dream just as lucidly as when i do nothing at all. But as someone else has stated, it is more difficult to recall the dream after i have emerged from it. I am having so much fun with my dreams lately i think iwill swear of the bottle for awhile, its not helping me deal with a lot of painful emotional issues right now.....BUT MY DREAMS SURE ARE!!!

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## Blulanou42

*First off* I just want to say I smoke weed every day.
the rest of the drugs on this list I have 'experimented with' using most for but a week in order to gain a full experience.  I don't use needles either.


********************warning***********************  ***********



um, here's my list:

ganja, shrooms (Cubenzi, Kosimouee), lsa, lsd, dextromethorphan, ketamine, mdma, mda, mde, methanphetamines, anphetamines, opiates (morphine, heroin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, traumadol, oxymorphone, morphine, etc.), mescaline, dyphenhydramine, salvia dinavorum, passion flower, kava kava, riddlin, zoloft, cocain, melatonin, welbutrin, dagga, Ayuwusca, tobacco, alcohol, a ton of over the counter pseudo speeds & weird tryptos as a kid by my parents.
(I am not including conventional food, but they are bad drugs too, gluten is highly addictive... like heroin addictive, sugar and coffee arn't far off either.  Not to mention the methal-etc.s of shampoos and conditioners, the transmition fluid in toothpaste, and a lot of other crazy shit i wish i never knew.)          i feel as though I may be missing 1 or 2...oh well.

I have stopped doing all of the above save for the psychotropics and psychadelics (and I mean, is there really any reason_not_  to?).

I have aspirations to do peyote, datura (despite ealy negative dyphen trips) and, god willing, some good dmt. ==dmt achieved!  Best Lucidity thus far.  It is in your brain already, it is in plants, go find them!  they are spirit guides.

I see energy waves in motionless objects in broad daylight.  Some would not take my road, some get freaked out.  I feel and use energy that I thought waas brain damage previously.  Turns out that they're really _are_ gaps in reality.  hehe, fun!

My lucid dreams were best with good 'ol Dex (robotussin, sucrets, dexalone) and, of course, melatonin. 


Dextromethorphan, the super componant to maximum strength robitussin, is a dissociative, like special k, and 3 bottles (assuming you're not native american, then never ever ever dex, never!) will take one through all the levels of meditation to the removed self and then he void and the double perspective where divination is possible (as well as divination spells  and weird transcendental meditation -we're talking planets kids, if you can hold your shit in) and where lucid dreaming is MOST powerful.

Think it and it is.

believe it and it listens.  look to the objects that surround you.  once souless, ou can hear their bodies in time and space and know all things in birth and death.

This of course can be done perfectly sober.  Taoist meditation is now what I practice because, as one can imagine, chugging robo is fucking sick.  It just happens to be the unique way that I lost self and gaining total allignment with my dreams.             haven't had a nightmare since

by natural means now, meditation and smoking green herbs, I can reach similar states of mind sober.  I can go anywhere, do anything.  It is so peaceful.  My dreams have the same calm.  Now my true desire is to bring such calm into my active life, deep zen meditation, walking meditation, and trying to learn to 'see' with my empty mind.  Life is incredible.  Magic everywhere.
sorry to the shocked, i'm just being honest

I reccomend ganja for a clear mind and a happy heart, hallucinations for wisdom and truth.  The rest only seemed to use me, I like non-addictive drugs such as these.  Green tea is also excellent.

peace                                    free weed

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## Curios

> _Originally posted by Paperdoll EP_
> *ask curios he's a pothead/drunkard..sure he'd know all about the effects*



Whatever...
Im not going to waste any time or effort on making you feel like a piece of shit you do enough harm to your own self.

Anyhow yes these mind altering drugs do what they claim.  I have experienced intese lucid dreams that are great after staying up all night on shrooms.   

If you use weed and others you will have lucid dreams but may experience bad recall.


When you stop the weed or alcohol then you may experience more lucid dreams.

I found change in everything helps alot in dreaming.

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## nerve

> _Originally posted by Paperdoll EP+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Paperdoll EP)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				 ask curios he's a pothead/drunkard..sure he'd know all about the effects *
> [/b]
> 			
> ...





_"Whatever..."_ denial?

_"Im not going to waste any time or effort on making you feel like a piece of shit you do enough harm to your own self."_ 


1. You couldn't make me feel like a piece of shit if you tried your hardest.
2. What do you mean, I "harm myself"? I'm quite fine.

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## wasup

Hahaha.  Nice, that proves you are a "pothead/drunkard"... 



> I have experienced intese lucid dreams that are great after staying up all night on shrooms. [/b]



 That's a lot of damn shrooms buddy... 



It sounds like you have a lot of ... drug ... time to experiment...


Paperdoll: I think he means some emotional harm?

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## nerve

8)

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## wasup

Blu - You use a SHI*LOAD OF DRUGS! *Tip* [non-medication]Drugs aren't healthy [including misuse of medication drugs]!




Danasheilds - There is no poll...

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## Serinanth

You can watch air currents too I bet   ::wink::  
I dont have the same bredth of experimentation, but I think you and I are on the same page blulanou. 


I totaly agree, Life is incredible and there is magic everywhere, you just need to open your eyes and see it.
And most of the world just needs to stop ignoring it becuse it scares them.

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## Second Attention

I think the worse use of drugs is using prescription and over the counter drugs in the way recommended, because a lot of those are made to simply make you want the drug more... they have strange ways of fighting simple problems. A head ache? take some tylenol, so it will make your stomach bleed and thin your blood, so that the blodd flowing through your body is less obtrusive, and therefore less "painful", I guess? I don't know, whatever. Acetiminophen(tylenol) is probably one of the worst drugs in the world, with insane toxicity levels. It's almost like a poison that's dealt to all of us by the biggest "drug dealer" in the world: the FDA! Acetiminophen fucking kills our livers, too. So.. say what you want about drugs are bad and all that bit, and your right, they are, I'm just saying they aren't any worse than some of the other drugs that people take for granted.

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## nerve

[/Tylenol]


 ::lol::

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## wasup

Uuhhhggggg.... Ya...

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## Skywalker

> _Originally posted by Blulanou42_
> *
> 
> um, here's my list:
> 
> ganja, shrooms, lsa, lsd, dextromethorphan, ketamine, mdma, mda, methanphetamines, anphetamines, opiates (morphine, heroin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, traumadol, etc.), dyphenhydramine, salvia dinavorum, passion flower, kava kava, riddlin, zoloft, cocain, melatonin, welbutrin, dagga, tobacco.
> (I am not including conventional food, but they are bad drugs too, gluten is highly addictive... like heroin addictive, sugar and coffee arn't far off either) * * * * *i feel as though I may be missing 1 or 2...oh well.
> 
> *



Holy shit!   ::o:   i cant even handle pot anymore myself, i find reality to challenging as it is!

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## evangel

[quote]I reccomend ganja for a clear mind and a happy heart, hallucinations for wisdom and truth.  The rest only seemed to use me, I like non-addictive drugs such as these.

peace                                    free weed

"Clear mind" and happy heart?  Try fog-brain    :tongue2:  and delusioned  ::huh::  . That's been my experience with ganja, anyway.

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## Serinanth

It very much depends on the buds... Highs range from giggly, couchlock, cerebrall, clear, happpy/active, stoned... there are more that i cannot recall at the moment

Weed has been selectively bred for hundreds, if not thousands of years so different varieties have certain tastes and highs... But uhh.. I know nuzzing about that   ::banana::

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## evangel

shherrrrrrrrrr... 

Yes, I've experienced  a full range of the effects of the green (and the purple, the red, chocolate, and even fluorescent green w/crystals, etc. etc. etc.). I still think it's overrated and DEFINITELY good at one thing: exterminating brain cells.   ::shakehead::

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## Tim

i dunno about weed... but shrooms are the best if you ask me, and believe me, i have very little experience. haha

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## Blulanou42

STOP BELIEVING PROPAGANDA FROM ALCOHOL COMPANIES

weed does not kill brain cells, most illegals don't really.

The drugs that are legal are not the ones that make you well, the FDA is like a shady auto-mechanic, you take it in to get fixed, they break something else, but not badly, just so you'll be back in a month or two.

Legal drugs are designed to sedate the public and keep 'em working and keep 'em stupid.  If you take bloodthinners for headaches your just killing yourself. 

Our government actually has the odacity to make illegal the natural forms of drugs, take all those illegal drugs and sythesize them into 'legal' drugs, and then sell them back to us incomplete.

A molecular structure that has been split looks like a piece of paper when you rip it, it's not smooth, it's not normal or natural.  We humans are used to ingesting whole forms of stimulents, we EVOLVED with them, they are what made us so strong.  Now we take what was perfect and rip it up and take that.  A broken substance like that cause 'free radical damage' to the body, literally erodes veins and arteries from the inside, rips through synapsies, tears us apart from inside our organs.  These wounds are where certain ailments thrive.  Cancer is known to especially inhabit the parts of us that have been worn away in such a manner.

There is no reason to take synthetic drugs.  Really.  none.
proper diet, ganja, shrooms, and lots of good water is all one really needs. 

The new problem is it is increasingly getting harder and harder to find 'good' food.  Does anyone even know that a large portaion of the meat in America now is irradiated?  Buzzing with free radicals just because we are afraid of microscopic bugs that we used to ingest harmoniously as a part of our environment.  The result is an increasingly weakened physical state in human evolution.     Can anyone say 'potato famine'
Darwin said that evolution wasn't nessisarily a progressive thing, some evolve to the right specifications to be wiped out.

I would also like to point out here that the CIA was used as a tool to police the world and make opium illegal on the world market and they in turn stole the opium, took it, synthesized it, and are currently selling it back at impossibly high prices to villagers who cannot afford it because we burnt all their opium fields.  Our medicine!  Ha!  We stole it from them!

I have strong feelings concerning Nixon, Reagan, Bush, and Bush 2.  They are the biggest criminals the world has ever known.  The CIA specializes in taking over governments, installing political lobbiests that have no problem burning millions of fields of opium around the world, stealing from innocents, creating drug cartels, making Pakistan and Afganistan hell holes (not to mention Vietnam, Korea)  and they sell it back!  and we say we are charitable and giving aid to these countries, we are selling back the resouces they once had for free!!!

I think that every honest American who has studied history outside of a censored classroom setting has a right as a patriot and good person to see that these ppl are shown as liars, that the ethos current in the American education system is uncensored and the true history of addictive substance trade is instituted into schools as required curriculum.  These administrations of 'democracies'  are pony show for gullible happy fat americans who only care about themselves and their bellies.  Well guess what, we are all responsible for the genocide currently going on around the world and the world KNOWS that.  Watch some worldlink tv, watch some free speech, see how ethnocentric and devious America has become because tyrants are currently in power.

Because of Substance control the American government has become thoroughly corrupt.

History must show the criminals.  The FDA, CIA, FBI, Homeland security, the american armed forces, these are all tools of totalitarian trickery that we named capitalist democracy.  The administrations of the last generation must be ousted.  235 of Reagan's administration wereeither under investigateion or being endited before the end of the presidency.  The sad truth is you will find the same roster under bush and now under his son.  The corruption of the American super power is draining the world of resources, killing thousands a day, making medication that once grew wild impossible to find, making death...we are killing because of our addictions and desires and it makes me truly sick and repulsed.


HOpe

something interesting that is happening is the American government is discovering that they cannot irradicate opium.  It may be one of the most resilient plants on earth.  If one watches the purple mountains and amber fields of grain with a sharp eye one can spot something quite spectacular.  Fields and fields of poppies!  They just happen to be evolving around their erradication.  They hybrid.  Look next june, especially july and august while driving about for big white blooms.  They grow everywhere.
I even found a field at about 7700 ft!  They grow.  Despite our rouse to convice the worlds that synthetics are better.  Despite erradication, the poppies will never die!

I am definitively Anti-synthetic now.  I have tried them, studied them, studied their histories, and now I am finally just begining to understand the real dark side to addiction.  We are manufacturing drugs that train workers, not peacemakers and lovers of the earth.  This, I feel, is reason enough for upheaval and revolution, but I will not raise a weapon to meet my drugged up foes, I will use the greatest thing that this country affords me.

free speech.  free mind.

I will not let this contiue if I can help it in any way.  Censorship is wrong in all of its forms, especially substance.

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## Blulanou42

One more thing

I watched a show on World Link tv about the ppl who actually grow cocain.

One man was a poor farmer.  The government had come in and taken all his coca crop.  He would not be able to feed his family that month.  He was told to grow bannanas, but because of American capitalism, they are now worth nothing unless grown in mass quantity and shot with hormones.  All the fruit he could grow is that way.  He grows coca, his father did, his great-great-great granfather did.  they do not synthesize it, they eat the leaves, they call it 'food.'  All the growers are similar.  

They bring their food to market.  They sell the coca to men who take the bunched leaves to the dealers.

Yet all the aforementioned administrations and republicans generally support the contra, the death squads who hunt these innocent farmers (not the dealers or the actual cartel runners, the CIA work with them) down and kill them and their families.  

This is the same senario as the opium farmer of afganistan.  These ppl are not terrorists.  The only ppl who can affoard to be terrorists are the ones who have american funding (ie, Osama bin Laden having dinner with the Bush family) and they are the ones that we purposely put in power to scapegoat later for easy enemies who really are just front men for the real deals that go down.  No matter how many leaders we chase, nomatter how many farmers we kill, the heroin is STILL here.  The war on drugs is myth to sedate a easily swayed lazy american public who only want flashy and instant results, no real resolution.


The policing of drugs around the world make innocent ppl suffer.

I would also like to point out that over 60% of prisons in this country are filled with non-violent drug offenders.  Weed dealers who are said to import cartels of mexican grass.  LOL, I smoke all homegrown, don't know about yall, buy the myth amoung those who aren't in the know is perposterous.  All the weed in this country (although I have had mexican red-hair, brazilian gold)  comes from Cali, Washington, Oregon, and your shwag is almost always local (Kansas latley is booming for some odd reason)

Please learn for yourselves and change the policiy of this police state and its offensive doublestandard that imprisons kids for weed.

sorry to get so far off topic.  I feel that we must discuss our definitions of legality and 'drugs' must be defined, too, in order to properly discuss their useage in lucid dreaming.  I feel strongly oppressed as one who has gained lucidiy by this path and feel that persecution detracts from real education or wisdom concerning the two.

drugs and lucidy are a valid way to go.  I have done much and gained more for it, I regret nothing, I am peaceful, I am lucid, I am calm and becoming more and more clear headed and balenced.  Addictive substances are not to be taken lightly, they will own you if your will is not strong enough to try them and then give them up.

remember: research, progressive moderation, and watch out for pigs.  :wink2:

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## Serinanth

::bowdown::   ::cheers::  

You rock man =)

I dont have much to add to that, you did a damned good job.

Everyone that will laugh and say pfft yeah right its all libral banter crap... Try looking into it, as he said find the truth for yourselves, not what you are told. 

Good food is hard to find...

Oh I remembered a study they recently did...

Population of children living in clean closed environments, hepa filters in home ionizers, with clean freak antibacterial parents.

And Kids that grew up on farms or in rural areas where they played outside in the lakes and rivers, and grew up with animals and ivory soap.

The kids that grew up in the steril environments are MUch more likely to have asthma and other long term health problems, they are more prone to becoming sickly and stay sick longer and have to rely on antibiotics to get them health again.

The kids that grew up exposed to the earth and life and played outside? 
much lower cases of asthema, they rarely get sick if they do get sick orange juice and chicken soup will make them right as rain in a few days.

People rely on those drugs and antibiotics too much, try to shelter their kids from which they should not be sheltered from. its dangerous to their long term health!  They keep the food we eat devoid of the microbes we have a SYMBIOTIC relationship with, meaning they need us we need them! 


ok ok /rantoff/

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## Seeker

I used to smoke some week in the 70's, but that's ancient history.
I only drink now, but I find that anything over 1 glass of wine interferes with my dreaming.
Alcohol does reduce the amount of time spent in REM state.

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## Second Attention

Indeed, it does. Alcohol=legal=bad.

We want to talk killing brain cells, alcohol is still the best and oldest way to go.

I like it though... it still has it's place in the giving of good times to me.

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## Seeker

Not to mention liver cells, enlarged heart, blood pressure.

I try to keep it to about 12 ounces a night of Red.

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## Serinanth

I drink guinness... so I think that makes me an alchoholic... oh wait.. they go to meetings..

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## Second Attention

YEAH GUINESS!!! WOOOT!! IRISH PEOPLE ROCK!! YEAH!!

I\'m irish...

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## evangel

> _Originally posted by Blulanou42_
> *STOP BELIEVING PROPAGANDA FROM ALCOHOL COMPANIES
> weed does not kill brain cells, most illegals don't really.
> The drugs that are legal are not the ones that make you well, the FDA is like a shady auto-mechanic, you take it in to get fixed, they break something else, but not badly, just so you'll be back in a month or two.
> I will not let this contiue if I can help it in any way.  Censorship is wrong in all of its forms, especially substance.*



  ::|:   ::|:   ::|:  
Hmmmm... Sounds like "propaganda" to me. Why should I believe your propaganda over someone else's? Especially when hundreds of studies (both government studies and otherwise) prove... Free speech... sure. But making someone else out to be the villain and then proclaiming yourself as free (or at least more so than the ones you attack) from error  -this thinking is not "open-minded" or "free thinking." It's PROPOGANDA.

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## Tim

you cant believe anybodys propaganda... do your own research and find out for yourself

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## evangel

::idea::  I 'gree totally.  :yumdumdoodledum:   ::takethatfoo::  

Sorry. I like those smilies!

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## Blulanou42

> _Originally posted by evangel+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(evangel)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				<!--QuoteBegin-Blulanou42
> 			
> 		
> ...



Ok, I admit i was going off there.  I got carried away, hehe.  But I will explain the reference.

The ALcohol companies pay for those ads you see on tv now, not the governement.  And we should all be asking ourselves why our government is the only one getting negative results with marijuanna testing, the lobbiest run thick in this country.  Big money Pharmaceuticals lobbies like mad agaist it.  The bad drugs are the synjthetics, they destroy you, weed replenishes the heart and mind.   ::D:  

Not to mention the TOBACCO industry.  Addiction lobbiests own us.

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## nerve

> _Originally posted by Second Attention_
> *YEAH GUINESS!!! WOOOT!! IRISH PEOPLE ROCK!! YEAH!!
> 
> I\'m irish...*




yay, i'm irish too...mostly..

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## Second Attention

HELL YEAH!!

::grabs paperdoll and does an irish jig::

WOOHOOO!!! I love Irish people!!

...sorry... forgot you didn\'t like that...(edited^^^)

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## nerve

please don\'t call me paper...


actually i'm part Irish, part German. i have very pale skin and blonde hair.    ::-P:

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## Serinanth

Im actually a mutt....
Im an American =) 
But I have good taste in beer ... its the weirdest thing.. out there (ireland) they drink Bud.... of all the shitty beers! granted guinnes is the choice but they seem to like bud.. which baffles me.... lol a friend brought a case of bud over one night and we yelled at him "Get outamyhouse! and take your crappy beer with you!" 

We ended up getting him to drink guinness the case of bud sat in the basement for over 2 years... then we got bored and started putting cans on the grill while it was lit 


BOOOMF!!!

Shitty beer everywhere!!! 
 :yumdumdoodledum:

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## evangel

[quote][quote]



> The ALcohol companies pay for those ads you see on tv now, not the governement.  And we should all be asking ourselves why our government is the only one getting negative results with marijuanna testing, the lobbiest run thick in this country.  Big money Pharmaceuticals lobbies like mad agaist it.  The bad drugs are the synjthetics, they destroy you, weed replenishes the heart and mind.



d'know about weeds being replenishing to anything  ::rolleyes::  
but yeah, it does make one kinda sick the power the alcohol, drug, and tobacco industries have...

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## Serinanth

dont forget oil!

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## evangel

dem too...

We should all be driving electric or Hydrogen powered cars by now, but noooo. The oil people gotsta have it all and dim sum.  ::doh::  
 ::hrm::  
What was the thread topic again?

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## jill1978

I dont know if this group has a collective consiousness or not, but I've sworn off booze and acidametaphen(sp) for good this week, then I read this thread, funny. Booze causes some real harm.....I agree with second attention and would like to not be dependant on anything at all....I do think weed is the least harmful of them all, but lets face it, it's still harms us....herpes and the flu are natural, but it dose'nt mean they're good.....I guess it's moderation, but It dose work for anxiety which I have a problem with and I was smokeing everyday for awhile and it was getting too expensive and my hookups were all busted or dissappeared, so I guess I'll have to deal without.

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## evangel

> _Originally posted by jill1978_
> *...It dose work for anxiety which I have a problem with and I was smokeing everyday for awhile and it was getting too expensive and my hookups were all busted or dissappeared, so I guess I'll have to deal without.*



Most people that I dealt with around the stuff were too sketchy and paranoid... even the ones that had "homegrown." There's such a prevailing attitude of paranoia and defensiveness -about how much it costs and having to hide it -both from authorities -and from people who want to steal it. As far as weed working for anxiety,  In my experience (both direct and from observing friends and family) is that smoking weed becomes more of an escapist thing which helps change yer mood and get yer mind off of worries for a while, (Like Bob Marley said "Everything is gonna be allright" -until you come back down!) but does little in the long term to help anxiety...

I do have occasional dreams where I've felt high, but haven't smoked  for three years now. I'm definitely more motivated and energetic now that I don't and have no desire at all to smoke.

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## jill1978

It is a form of ascape, but anxiety medicine dose'nt work longterm either, you have to keep taking it...It's good you quit, I'm trying to stop turning to substances as an answer, it's just my weakness and something I have to work on.

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## Blulanou42

the only real way to free yourself from axiety is to

!)  lucid dream
2) meditate     (sitting and zen, all the time, really)
3) diet            (some toke, some don't.  we all find our way.  but good food is a must and is rare here in usa land, ;()

and of course, love, love helps anxiety...sex too ;p

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## Blulanou42

hehe hcr drugs too    really temporary unfortunatly      we need to emulate the feeling of bliss they give in irl land

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## Cattivo

I have had extremely vivid dreams on hydrocodone. Anyone else?

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## Cattivo

Let me elaborate on my experiances with hydrocodone. I have had a few dreams on it but really only two that I can remeber being really strange. the first on it was short and sweet (they usually are for me), I felt someone or something violently tugging at my skin. I said something that I couldnt understand in a real deep gutteral language, then I growled and nashed at it. This woke me up. The second one that was strange was i imagined a horde HUGE spiders crawling through my window, and on top of me. This freaked me out and made me launch out of my bed and onto the floor a good three or four feet away. Then I woke up. Pretty vivid if you ask me.  :smiley:

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## jill1978

I'd be afraid to ever touch that stuff with my addictive personality.

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## Cattivo

> _Originally posted by jill1978_
> *I'd be afraid to ever touch that stuff with my addictive personality.*



I normally wouldnt but I have a perscription for it  ::D:

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## Seeker

I'm with Jill on this one.  I have enough trouble putting the bottle down.  I don't need another addiction!

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## Cattivo

> _Originally posted by Seeker_
> *I'm with Jill on this one.  I have enough trouble putting the bottle down.  I don't need another addiction!*



 I know what you mean. I did get to the point where I couldnt sleep with out it

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## Blulanou42

one must know the most serious addiction
to give up all desire forever

one must know absolute evil
to give absolute good

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## Lucius

Im addicted to LDing lol, and to obtaining more and more knowledge, I have infinite hunger for knowledge, but this isnt a negative adiction i think...also ultimate evil..ultimate good
I dont know exactly what you try to say but what I think,

We are all good and evil, I rather refer as light and darkness, we all must accept our "dark" sides which is diffirent from our "evil" side, to be completely balanced one must even find peace with the dark side, for example a long time ago I made peace with my nightmares, I still have nightmares but Im not afraid anymore, fear is almost non existant, its the same like with being afraid of the dark, when darkness is accepted you wont see it as evil anymore, it wont even be negative energy anymore,
your darkside contains truth aswell

I dont know, mabey thats what about you meaned, but thats what i think

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## Ev

Wow, how could I miss such a lovely topic!

I've done my share of bad shit. unfortunately i dont know how it affected my dreams, since i wasnt really interested then. 

Recently I wasnt able to get anything... I mean anything illegal.  Moving 

to USA I lost all my buddies and tripping mates.

But I could try some legal stuff like DXM and Salvia Divinorum.
I dont like DXM, but sally is good stuff.

Sally lengthened my dreams to the extreme (like 5 dreams joined together) and I became lucid at the end, or rather dream ended in false awakening cause i became lucid...


As for addictive drugs and recreational use - I'm strongly opposed to this.
It just gives drugs a Veeery bad name. Drugs are really good to shake old beliefs and enlighten your path, If you know how to use them.


Sorry, i have no idea how old this topic is, cause my time is displayed as e122Wednesday010602...

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## Ph34r

I honestly have to say that I have smoked weed everyday for the past 6 months, and through that 6 month period I don't remember ONE dream. Now I've heard of a couple of my friends say they have had lucid dreams, but I never really believed them.

Last night, I didn't smoke. I had one of the most insane LD's imaginable. I didn't even make myself do it either. I just fell into dream state and for some reason knew I was dreaming. I dreamt for over 5 hours.

I've done LSD, 2-ce, 2-c-t-7 (research drugs), shrooms, and other hallucinagens; and the entire time I was LDing the only thing I could think of is the entire time is how I felt like I was tripping on a hallucinagen. At first I thought that these dreams were triggered by hallucinagens, but after finding this site I've concluded that that is total BS. 

I kind of went off on the hallucinagens, but my point in this post is if you want to LD, stay away from the weed.

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## dream-scape

Calea Zacatechichi (aka "dream herb") has been used for ages by the Chontal Indians of Oaxaca, Mexico to induce intense lucid dreaming.

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## dreamer3

DRUGS ARE BAD!!!!! YOU ARE BAD IF YOU DO DRUGS!!! YOU ARE ALL BAD, NO MATTER WHAT, AS LONG AS YOU ABUSE IT(that includes smoking anything illegal or abusing over the counter, etc.)

i also think that it would give you MUCH crapier LDs.

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## Torcher

Hmmmm....dr0ogs you say?

Alcohol = potential for increased dream imagery in my case, but only in limited amounts. If I drink over 4 beers my dreams will be crap. 
Weed = not much of a change, diminished if any.
The mixture of them both gives me wicked false awakenings, providing I got super drunk before sleeping. The false awakening happens usually when my body's Dehydration alarm starts going off. Not worth it really.

I use kava and melatonin regularly ever since I had the single most incredible LD of my life after using a combo of the two, mixed with B6 and valerian. I was doped to hell, but the dream came immediately, like walking into a movie, or being plugged into the matrix. 

I used sleep aids at one point to stop sleep paralysis, and it gave me waking dreams pretty hard, but there were literally no dreams that I can remember. If so, they were weak and loosely defined.

Never had a chance to use the shrooms, one day hopefully. Sticking with kava for now.

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## Rev. Pastora

When you're awake, and you use any drug that has an effect on your perceptions, you accept that things are, as such, not 'normal'. Your opinion may be that it's an improvement, or a benefit, or that it's fun for what it is, but you don't accept it as what your normal waking perceptions are, or ought, to be. So why would you accept that your dreaming perceptions are any more real or beneficial when they're altered by drugs? If you wouldn't normally consider drug conciousness an improved reality rather than an altered one, why consider drug dreams improved? Accept them for what they are. Different, and nothing more. No drug will improve dreaming any more or less than it will improve waking reality. 

It won't. It will only temporarily alter it. I'm not saying that it can't be helpful, but you need to realize it's not the answer. It's just a different perspective. You won't conquer dreaming with drugs any more than you'll conquer waking life with them. They can be a useful learning aid to dreaming, but learn to do it on your own.

Don't let this give you the impression I'm anti-drug. I've done more acid than most of you will ever see, and until recently, smoked around an oz a week, as well as experimenting with a mind boggling variety of other things. But when I see people thinking they can use drugs to skip the hard work it takes to own your reality (awake or asleep) it makes me nuts. Like B.B. King says, it _doesn't count_ when you're high.

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## tyrantt23

> _Originally posted by Torcher_
> *Sticking with kava for now.*



I've read some about and it got me interested and at the same time skeptycal about it. Do the effects of helping you relax/fall asleep, and increased dream awareness really do work? What dosage do you need to get the effect (a bowl, a joint)? Also, do you know of a good site I could get some for experimenting? thanks...  :wink2:  kava + melatonin does sound like would be a good combo.

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## laracroft21

I got really drunk last night (had a party at my place so I didn't have to drive and junk).  I also took a valium b/c I was having trouble sleeping after everone left.  I passed the f$%@ out and I remember all my dreams vividly and had my 2nd real lucid dream and FLEW for the first time!!!!!!!  I woke up too excited to have a hangover  :smiley:  That's just my 2 cents....

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## Funki10is

I feel that Drugs are Illegal in the first place because they expand your consciousness and your awareness. Yes you can do it naturally, but its a huge shortcut.  You have to realize that every single one of you creates your own reality.  If you take a heavy drug and start flipping out, you have to take control and know everything will be ok!  Yes drugs can Kill but who put that thought in your head in the first place?  Anything can kill you...you can slip and crack ur head open..that can kill you.  Or you can fart and die from the smell.   ::mrgreen::  

I feel that the only reason people Die from drugs is simply this...

when you take these drugs..and you become connected with your higher being and higher conscioiusness...than there is always the chance that you are not ready to connect...and it causes a "System Overload." Think about it...your connecting to Energy...everything is energy..

Electricity is Energy and Light is Energy.  If you "Plug Into" that outlet and your not ready to handle it....think about it system overload.
 ::shock::

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## Matchbook

I was using a legal psychoactive drug called dextromethorphan (DXM for short) for a few months, on a weekly basis.  The night OF using it, I would not experience dreams, because it prevented me from reaching the REM phase.  But the NEXT night I would begin to have such spectacular dreams I could hardly believe it.  And then they started to become lucid.  So I would always go to bed earlier the next night and sleep for 12 hours, and have some amazing lucid dreams, some of my best I've had.  These wild dreams would last the rest of the week until I used it again.  

Since then I quit using it, because I was worried that continual use could be harmful to my liver.  But I still experience much more enhanced dreams, even now, and have lucid dreams every night now.  When I DON'T have a lucid dream on a certain night, I am often surprised.  So I do credit my slightly newfound abilities to taking that drug, but probably could have achieved it without the use of any drug.

Even though the results I listed of using DXM to achieve lucid dreams sound very positive, I don't recommend that anyone try it themselves (especially teenagers), unless you learn a great deal about it before hand.  And even then, it's best to err on the side of caution.

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## Bruho

I smoked weed for like 4 years straight withought going 2 days withought smoking.   But recently i experimented to see if my dreams would be better withought.  on the 3rd day of quitting i had a very vivid dream recall,  i woke up right from the dream.  Then I smoked weed last night, got really stoned.  and i didnt remember shit this morning.

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## Franz Ferdinand

drugs and alcohol are very bad for you. it really isnt worth it for a dream.

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## Gman

hey blu (i think, or someone, can't remember) said somehting about peyote, the plant. i was a regular drug user of nearly all the drugs you said exept ketamine and probly another or two but anyways, back on subject. i just recently found peyote grass, its grown all over the world!! i found some that grew at a ravine by my house, im talking 600+ yards worth, but if you haven't done it yet, when you smoke it (and you gatta smoke alot) it taste like burning asshole, and that is a MAJOR UNDERSTATEMENT!! so i urge you to extract the dmt out of it, and smoke the extract, because if you take it orally, you will digest it and it will not do a thing, unless you are taking MAOI's

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## Gman

as for drugs while dreaming, i was a habitual pot smoker. but not anymore cuz my parents dont like it........ but ive noticed that as long as i smoke weed, i can never remember my dreams, and when i stop smoking, i always remember my dreams great! as for other drugs they don't really effect it as much, dxm and shrooms are incredible for dreaming, not sure about LD though...

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## Feeble Wizard

I don't use drugs  8)

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## Matchbook

Honestly, I highly respect anyone who chooses not to use drugs.  I used to despise drugs (because of the ads on TV and in magazines), and looked down on people who used them.  But then I found out that there are lots of respectable, "normal" people out there who use drugs without any major consequences.  The majority of drugs, though, I believe are harmful and worthless, and cause a lot of problems for people.  But things specifically like psychedelics, seem to be much safer, anti-addictive, and serve an actual purpose, as opposed to things like meth, cocaine.

Anyway, once I had researched a lot about psychedelics from reliable scientific resources, I decided I would give it a try.  But didn't want to do anything illegal, so I didn't try any illegal ones.

But all I want to say is, I encourage those of you here not to look down upon people who try or experiment with drugs, until you know more about the circumstances, because using drugs doesn't make you scum... and honestly not all drugs are scummy.  I know that from experience (although I haven't tried much).  Even though the media is very good at manipulating society with its ads and messages portraying drugs as dangerous and the users as lawless rebels and addicts, there is another point of view, one that actually reflects the average drug user.  How effective would those ads be if they told the truth?  "Some drugs are dangerous and addictive, and some people may suffer side effects or possibly die from overdosing, but then others that use them responibly will be fine.  Don't do drugs."  How well would that work?

Anyway, don't look at me as an advocate for drugs.  I'm not.  I just like to offer another view point.

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## polio vaccine

Sigh.  Time to shed some light.  I'm gonna do something similar to what beta124 has done.  Any repetition is to reiterate a point.

Let me give you some personal information, so I don't appear to be talking out of my ass.  I'm a very occasional drinker, and alcohol has given me two of the most vivid lucid dreams of my life.  I call that a fluke, because all it probably did was relax my body a lot.  I don't enjoy booze very much, and I wouldn't recommend it as a tool for dreaming.

I'm a regular pot-smoker, though after about two weeks of smoking I'll generally take a break to "clear my system."  I do it because it's enjoyable, safe, even healthy in some respects.  That being said, I think going to sleep stoned will plummet you right down to non-REM delta sleep, and that's coming from a guy who enjoys smoking weed.  I try not to smoke too early before bed if I want to remember any dreams.

The effect of psilocybin mushrooms may only last 6-8 hours directly, but the afterglow can persist for a few days.  During that post-shroom period, you will be prone to very vivid dreams that can easily turn lucid, since the primary effect of shrooms is to blend the subconscious with waking perception.  A shroom trip is basically dreaming whilst awake, and as such, the "residue" will do much of the same.  Shrooms are some of the safest psychoactives you can take, physically or psychologically, but I wouldn't recommend them as solely a dream tool.  A mushroom experience is better as a rare journey, and good dreams are merely one side effect.

LSD is a good deal more intense than magic mushrooms, and during the time following an acid trip it's difficult to fall asleep, mainly because you're still so excited by all the things that have just happened to you.  LSD is a much more energetic drug, and would probably be detrimental to dream work.  That being said, it is a rather rewarding and creatively stimulating experience, and is actually almost entirely harmless, despite the many myths about brain-bleeding and rat poison.

Opiates such as opium, heroin, oxycodone or other prescription painkillers of the same variety are famous for their dream-inducing abilities.  I personally have never used any of the three mentioned above, although I have used lesser opiate painkillers such as codeine.  All within the realm of prescription, mind you, as they're just not my bent when it comes to recreation.  I simply noticed vivid dreams as a side effect.

Mescaline will make it impossible to sleep for a solid fourteen hours.  This generally means that when the trip is over, you're a bit weary and will shoot into a deep sleep.  A mescaline trip has many valuable features, but dreaming is not one of them.

Kanna is a legal drug in the United States, although I'm not sure about its legal status elsewhere.  It is a hypnotic, and depending on how it's taken it will have different effects.  Snorted or chewed, it is exciting and euphoric, and will not lend well to dreaming.  Smoked, however, it's more dreamy, and will actually help in that respect.

Morning Glories, Hawaiian Woodrose, and other sources of LSA (lysergic amides) are generally more sedative than their cousin LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) and therefore work much better for dream induction.  If you experiment with any of these, however, be wary of your dose.  Hawaiian woodrose seeds contain a small amount of cyanide which is harmless in quantities of 10 seeds or lower.  However, I tried eating 20 seeds once, and woke the next morning with muscle pains in addition to my vivid dream memories.  It is also possible to eat too many Morning Glories and Rivea Corymbosa, though if you observe a proper dose and don't try to be the first to hit a new peak, you should be completely fine.

MDMA (ecstasy) is a stimulant, so one wouldn't expect it to help with dreams.  That isn't the case, however, at least not after the main effects have worn off.  Ecstasy works by mass-producing serotonin in your brain, and as such, leaves you with very vivid dreams for a day or two following the experience.  This may be different if you use Ecstasy to party and dance, and tire yourself out.  Personally, I think Ecstasy as a party drug is a waste of a valuable therapeutic chemical.

* Note: beta124, your info about MDMA making "holes" in the brain is outdated.  That presumption came from misread brain scans.  Doctors mistook areas of high serotonin activity as deteriorated brain tissue, and their premature judgment has, of course, stuck in the public mind.  That's not to say that MDMA is totally safe, but it has been proven to be much safer, even in high-dose, long-term use, than it was originally thought to be.

Salvia Divinorum is terribly intense and sometimes scary, and personally I find myself immensely stimulated after a brief Salvia trip.  However, I've heard of it being used as a dream aid, though I expect that's only true of the Salvia leaf.  Extracts and tinctures are the popular mode of ingestion for those psychonauts that usually choose to screw with it, and that's primarily how I've used it in the past.  I can't give a definite yes or no on the usefulness of this particular chemical, though it is very safe to try, unless you have a heart condition.

Dextromethorphan, or DXM, is a disossciative that acts as a cough suppressant in low doses.  That's right, this is what the kiddies are chugging Robitussin for.  This would be more useful for astral projection than lucid dreaming, as by its very definition it separates the mind from the body.  However, DXM is at least a few steps above PCP, another disossciative, one which was taken out of the mainstream and scheduled after it proved too unstable for human use.  It was replaced with the much safer, healthier Ketamine.  I have used DXM once, and PCP twice by accident.  I have not used Ketamine, although that would be the safest and surest route.  Though again, it would be better as an astral projection tool than one for dreaming.  I personally wouldn't recommend any but Ketamine, as PCP and DXM both have overdose levels.  Ketamine does as well, but it is used as a surgical anaesthetic, and a recreational Ketamine experience is achieved by using sub-anaesthetic doses.  Unless you WAY overshoot your does, an OD on Ketamine will simply result in you anaesthetizing yourself.  If anyone wanted to steal your kidneys, they'd be well advised to catch you in the middle of a high-dose Ketamine trip.

DMT, dimethyltryptamine, or 5-meO-DMT, an analogue, are both rather intense.  After using them, you may feel creatively inclined and visualizations will come with ease (though during the trip itself you will be too overwhelmed to make anything of it).  They may be helpful for dreams if you could get yourself to sleep after using them.  I wouldn't recommend them, at least not for lucid dreaming.

Nicotine is, of course, a stimulant.  While it sometimes helps to have a bit of caffeine or nicotine in your brain before you attempt a lucid dream (in order to keep your mind awake), too much will obviously keep you from falling alseep at all.  I am not a smoker, so the few times I've smoked a cigarette, the nicotine stimulation was most likelystronger than it would be for a regular smoker.  Some say they smoke cigarettes to calm down, although this is generally because their brains have become accustomed to nicotine.

Diphenhydramine is the active ingredient in Benadryl, and it is very similar to diphenhydrinate, the active ingredient in Dramamine.  Both of these, if taken in excessive doses, can cause "waking dreams," but not in the same vein as shrooms.  These dreams are indistinguishable from reality, and are often terribly scary for that reason.  I have only used diphenhydramine to "trip" once.  It was impossible to sleep, despite the trademark drowsiness of Benadryl, because every time I shut my eyes my eyeballs would flitter around as if in the middle of REM.  It was very distracting, and I ended up waiting out a light-dose Benadryl trip (200mg) that I had decided to try as, guess what, a dream aid.  In addition to the health risks involved in taking Benadryl excessively, I would advise against it simply because it doesn't help you dream.  Though it will clear your allergies up nicely.

Phew.

Now then, let's think about this again.  Calea Zacatechichi, Valerian, Melatonin, B-6.... all are recommended for inducing dreams.  These are all DRUGS.  Advil is a DRUG.  Coffee in the morning is a DRUG.  Chamomile tea is a DRUG.  Any substance that has any psychoactive effect is a DRUG.

To say that all drugs are bad and bad for you is a rather uneducated statement.  In fact, some drugs that are illegal here in the United States are perfectly legal elsewhere.  Illegality is often not decided in the best interest of public safety, but rather by popular opinion.  For example, marijuana and LSD are classified as Schedule I in the United States, whereas cocaine is only Schedule II.  In addition, alcohol is abhorred in Muslim cultures.   Like beta124 has said, www.erowid.org is a terrific source for impartial information, should you care to learn any more.

Please know that if you choose to make broad generalizations about drugs, or to condemn a drug user for using drugs of any kind, you should immediately stop drinking caffeine, eating chocolate (theobromine is psychoactive), drinking chamomile or green tea, taking medicine of any kind, and using melatonin.  If you have done any of these things at any time in your life, congratulations, you are or were at one time a drug user.

(I'm looking at you, dreamer3.)

Some drugs have great value, some simply do not, and some have a little of both.  It is a complicated issue, much more complicated than DARE or Freevibe would have you believe.  If you don't mind transcending some social stigmas and actually educating yourself and trying them on your own, you may find some benefit.  That is, provided you choose the right drug and the right dose.

I have spent WAY too much energy on this.  If anyone still wants to say all drug users are bad and pot is a straight gateway to crack, go ahead and deprive yourself of an expanded life experience.  I did my best to educate, anyway.

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## Seeker

Time for my disclaimer again.

Disclaimer.  The management of Dream Views does not condone the use of any chemical or herbal substance for the induction of lucid dreams and is not responsible for any injury that might result from the use of any substance discussed on this forum.

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## polio vaccine

Oh sorry, I shoulda put one of those in there myself.

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## Blulanou42

Food = Drugs

do not be a fool and think any chemical is without effect.
all things we come into contact with effect our dreams, lives, & memories.

Some of us are meant to do many things others are not.
Some have higher tolerances for different things.

Everyone should try everything, but with extreme caution no matter what the substance.
Little by little.

I personally recommend all psychadelics at some point or another.  All of you have taken many in your lifetimes.I am so sensitive now that I see dreams in waking life just drinking juice from the asorbic acid.  Memories do not work like most say.

Everything that you need on your path is given to you.
I was given much.

Drugs enhance and diminish at the same time, just different attributtes.
All help in some way or another.

A special note about Dxm, and other psychadelics.  The longer one stays awake in meditation, the more one may see, the further one may travel.  I have brought Lucid Dreamscaping into waking life many times now in different forms of meditation, from swimming to sitting, from rock climbing to smoking.  All are useful.  All serve purpose to different kinds of people.  

I am far in Lucidity and Clairity now.     It is  like being a star in the cosmos...
But we are merely people in a galaxy.  It is like opening a pandoras box.
You must be strong.
You must love yourself and others.
You must have unbending will, yet except all you sense.
the relms of the soul of god
the planes
they exist, we can see them
staying is possible as well
please take great care of yourselves and don't get poisoned
80% of drug fatalities are poisonings... usually not even from the desired drug.
And we are all dieing of the foods we are eating.  Cancer, Heart disease and gluttony still killing more then hard drugs ever will.  ::mrgreen::  

I meditate on ganja every day.

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## KidAircrash

When I smoke weed before going to sleep I usually can't remember my dreams.  If I smoke it more than 3 hours before i go to sleep than it doesn't seem to affect my dream recall.

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## Rainbow Werewolf

I have never smoked a joint, so I cannot comment. Last night I did drink a little wine about 2 hours before bed which helps a bit with relaxation. I had a LD about 6AM, so it would have long passed. A nightcap would be helpful to relax and sleep before doing a WBTB later on.

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## PenguinLord13

> _Originally posted by dreamer3_
> *DRUGS ARE BAD!!!!! YOU ARE BAD IF YOU DO DRUGS!!! YOU ARE ALL BAD, NO MATTER WHAT, AS LONG AS YOU ABUSE IT(that includes smoking anything illegal or abusing over the counter, etc.)
> 
> i also think that it would give you MUCH crapier LDs.*



I don't think you are all bad if you use drugs to induce LDs, some really good nice people use drugs, but I disagree strongly with the idea of it. It is not only illegal to use many drugs, but it also is horrible for your health. Why kill yourself for some dreams. As great as dreams are, they are not real! The real world is more important to your actual life, and destroying your body is not worth having fun in a world of your own, because it can kill you, and then nothing you did will really matter, you'll be dead. You will have thrown your life away for a bunch of dreams, and while maybe there is an afterlife, or you maybe will get another chance as another being, you might just be DEAD, and that would be terrible having thrown away your existence for a non-existant world.

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## Quester

4 years without a comment on this Hmm guess the DEA is doing their job. Weed. As much as I can get. San Pablo when I want to spirit walk. It will cause lucid controlled dreaming for me for about two nights after the induced altered reality period wears off. I would not recommend this without someone who is knowledgeable about ethnogenic vision quests though.

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## awoke

I drink and smoke weed. weed fairly regularly. I drink once every week or two.
I havent seen any noticable difference in my dreaming with either of the two. Ive gone decent lengths of time without either one, and had no real difference.

honestly, general stress works against me more than anything.
wheather or not the weed and drinking is contributing to the general stress is up for deabte. :wink2:

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## awoke

LMAO at me typing up an honest reply to a thread that died 4 years ago and looking like a douchebag.

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