# Sleep and Dreams > Beyond Dreaming >  >  5000 year old WILD technique. Very easy, and very effective.

## ChaybaChayba

I recently got into meditation, and discovered that you could use it to WILD! I thought I might share it with you guys, because this technique is the easiest one and most effective one I have encountered. The meditation technique I use to WILD is the following: 

_I close my eyes, and place my attention only on the center of my forehead (between my eyebrows) and on my breath. That's it.
_
Why does it work? Because that is where the pineal gland, the third eye, the minds eye is located. By imagining sensations at that location, you directly stimulate it. The pineal gland is the gland that secretes melatonin, which is one of the hormones responsible for dreaming. You can increase stimulation the better you can concentrate on it and the better you can induce sensations or vibrations in that area. The better your imagination, the more focussed your mind, and the less you keep talking to yourself inside your head all the time, the better this technique works. The longer you use this technique, the faster you will get into a WILD. It's like a magic button you need to push to get into dreamland.

This is a 5000 year old tantra technique, as the story goes, one of the 112 meditations given by Shiva to his consort Parvati. Still works like a charm, and it's the easiest WILD technique out there IMO. This one directly induces dreaming by stimulating the gland that secretes the dreaming hormones. I also already managed to go into dreaming during meditation without laying down, all I need to do is close my eyes and concentrate for a while. The litteral translation of the tantra technique is the following:




> "With intangible breath in center of forehead, as this reaches heart at the moment of sleep, have direction over dreams and over death itself."



Hope this helps!

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## DreamChaser

Yes I have read things like this and I find it very interesting.
But what do you do to stimulate the spot?
Do you just visualise looking at it from a 3rd person view or something?

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## ChaybaChayba

Yes, you can use whatever works for you. Like you can start of looking in a mirror and staring at that spot to locate it and get you started, that helped for me. Or you can place your finger there, to get a feel. Your imagination is all it needs tho, imagining a sensation there is what does the stimulation. It took me some time before I started feeling stuff there, but when I did, it felt great, like some kind of warm sensations, a pressure in the forehead. I visualize a bright white light in that spot, after a while that light turns into dreams or you can turn it back into a white light to continue the meditation.

Im guessing it's similar to stimulating the saliva glands by imagining yummy food in your mouth. Thats a more direct example of forcing a gland to secrete.

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## Ajna

ChaybaChayba, that is exactly the meditation technique I use for WILD's! The Brow or Third Eye Chakra is energetically linked to the pineal gland as you know and the pineal gland is also responsible for producing natural DMT - the spirit molecule as well as melatonin, basically DMT is responsible for catalysing the separation of the mind from the body, be it for out of body experiences, when taking psychadelics (that contain DMT) and even at death or near death experiences. I wouldn't rule out it being released in very small amounts when dreaming too.

I also run an energy circuit between the Hara or Dan Tien (energy storage centre I think between the 1st and 2nd Chakras) and up to the Crown Chakra which results in my tounge going numb with vibrations like a car battery is stuck to it LOL (you should have it resting lightly on the roof of your mouth to help close the circuit) I also create an energetic bridge between the crown chakra and the brow. I also run energy through my hands and feet as they have minor energy exchange chakras located there.

After this my entire body is numb with energetic vibrations and I feel the energy body generating as the etheric arms and etheric body start moving independently from the physcial. This is where SP sets in I think, but I think my consciousness is more integrated with the energy body than the physical body at this point to feel typical SP symptoms. Then I just shake myself loose by rolling out of the body, or gyrating or floating upwards, or imagining climbing a rope with my arms etc etc. Then you have a WILD or OBE! I've only achieved this a handful of times though. Working on it more regularly after joining this forum! Its been great for motivation!

I've also entered dreams through meditation but more often than not (since I can't achieve a full lotus posture) my head drops forward and I wake myself up just as I'm immersing into the hypnogogic imagery... I think its better to maintain yourself in the altered state at the threshold of theta and sleep... at the threshold of the veil.

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## Ajna

> Im guessing it's similar to stimulating the saliva glands by imagining yummy food in your mouth. Thats a more direct example of forcing a gland to secrete.



Yes thats a brilliant analogy. "Where attention goes energy flows" Visualising a point of white light which is expanding or swirling at a point about 1 cm above the brow between your eyes will eventually have you experiencing the sensations. As Chayba Chaybe said, you will feel pressure, warmth, tingling, pulsating, one or all of the above but if you stick at it you will notice it. And you will also notice the improvements in your dream recall, LD induction and you may even get some minds eye visions. Its cool stuff indeed  :;-):

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## ChaybaChayba

Very interesting reply Ajna, you seem to know a lot about this subject.. each post you write learns me something new  :tongue2:

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## DreamChaser

> Very interesting reply Ajna, you seem to know a lot about this subject.. each post you write learns me something new



Yes, very cool.

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## moonshine

> I recently got into meditation, and discovered that you could use it to WILD! I thought I might share it with you guys, because this technique is the easiest one and most effective one I have encountered. The meditation technique I use to WILD is the following: 
> 
> _I close my eyes, and place my attention only on the center of my forehead (between my eyebrows) and on my breath. That's it.
> _
> Why does it work? Because that is where the pineal gland, the third eye, the minds eye is located. By imagining sensations at that location, you directly stimulate it. The pineal gland is the gland that secretes melatonin, which is one of the hormones responsible for dreaming.



Melatonin taken before bed puts you into a deep non rem sleep. Dream vividness comes from rem rebound in the morning. 

Not sure how melatonin can help a WILD attempt.

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## ChaybaChayba

Dreams only occuring in rem-state is nothing but an urban legend.

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## TheMoon

> I recently got into meditation, and discovered that you could use it to WILD! I thought I might share it with you guys, because this technique is the easiest one and most effective one I have encountered. The meditation technique I use to WILD is the following: 
> 
> _I close my eyes, and place my attention only on the center of my forehead (between my eyebrows) and on my breath. That's it.
> _
> Why does it work? Because that is where the pineal gland, the third eye, the minds eye is located.



Technically your pineal gland is located in the center of your head or around that area, not in your forehead  :smiley: 

Whenever i managed to Lucid dream after wake back to bed. I try to look into the center of my mind. Then lucid dreams start to appear.

So yes this does work. But you should try to look into the center of your mind, put your focus there, not at the center of your forehead.

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## ChaybaChayba

Yeah indeed good point, the center of your mind is more accurate, but It's easier to locate the center of your forehead instead of the center of your mind IMO. Concentrating on the center of your forehead, between the eyebrows, will also activate the center of your mind. It's the same thing.

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## 12g951ad

Ok........ so does this work  ......REALLY VAU

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## Pk.sage

Sounds interesting, i havent had a successful wild yet, something else to try would be nice. Might try right now 8). I'll post my results.

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## spaceexplorer

> Yeah indeed good point, the center of your mind is more accurate, but It's easier to locate the center of your forehead instead of the center of your mind IMO. Concentrating on the center of your forehead, between the eyebrows, will also activate the center of your mind. It's the same thing.



Yes agreed.
And the whole pineal thing  is on speculative anyway, there is no real evidence that it has anything to do with awareness etc.
And it's miles from between your eyes:



I think the point isnt where you put your awareness, 
the point is that you have awareness at all... which is the key to lucidity.

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## ChaybaChayba

It's not speculative at all. I linked it with articles. Check it out.. 




> The pineal gland (also called the pineal body, epiphysis cerebri, or epiphysis) is a small endocrine gland in the vertebrate brain. It produces melatonin, a hormone that affects the modulation of wake/sleep patterns and photoperiodic (seasonal) functions.[1][2] It is shaped like a tiny pine cone (hence its name), and is located near to the center of the brain, between the two hemispheres, tucked in a groove where the two rounded thalamic bodies join.



Miles from between the eyes? You must have a HUGE head. LOL

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## Robot_Butler

I move my attention to the back of my head, right where my head joins my neck.  It seems to be the magic spot for me.  I also hold my consciousness here while doing reality check type awareness excercises throughout the day.

 The center of my forehead seems to generate too many visuals for me.  Maybe it is because it is so close to where my eyes are, so it reminds me of normal visual awareness.  

I'm assuming that maintaining focus on any one spot will have similar results.

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## DreamChaser

So the pineal gland looks like it's our "Dream Clitoris".
Lets stimulate it!

 ::D:

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## Abra

I am highly reluctant to believe that we can voluntarily stimulate the pineal gland. It's a _gland_. Controlled by the _autonomic_ nervous system. It takes people ages to learn how to control heart rate, which can be lowered simply by sitting/laying still, altering your breathing and closing your eyes (all three are a part of most meditation techniques). And don't forget, in that case we are _indirectly_ controlling heart rate. Controlling a gland by mere thought? That's like controlling digestion by thought, or controlling your knee-jerk reflex by thought.

Furthermore, the correlation between melatonin and dreams has yet to be proven; all we know is that it promotes sleep.

I've heard you can stimulate the pineal gland with the use of high-powered magnets. Cool stuff.

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## pond weed

hey abra, did you read what ChaybaChayba said about the salyva thing.

there are several posts on this website about people who have trouble with salyva when trying to sleep.
i somtimes have it and i and everyone else has concluded that its because we think about it, that the mouth produces it.
this is anoying because once i think about salyva, my mouth starts to produce it and its a chain reaction.

i think this happens so easily because we are so aware of salyva, we can feel it.
it would be a lot harder to stimulate this part of the brain because 'we' dont know its there, we are told its there.
i think that the more i read up/ do research on this part of the brain, the more aware i will become of its existance, thus making it easier to stimulate.

if that made any sense  :smiley:

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## DreamChaser

The penis (and/or parts of) is a gland.
I can will it to do all sorts of things even without touching it.
I can make it grow and get all sorts of feelings from just thoughts.
I can even have one of the most powerful things in the world happen too, an orgasm from stimulating my gland.(this one by thought is normally at puberty - and often through dreaming)

Just showing another example of us stimulating our glands by thought.
Seems many don't believe we can.

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## TheMoon

> Yes agreed.
> And the whole pineal thing  is on speculative anyway, there is no real evidence that it has anything to do with awareness etc.
> And it's miles from between your eyes:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the point isnt where you put your awareness, 
> the point is that you have awareness at all... which is the key to lucidity.



Its not speculation your pineal gland contains rods and cones like your eyes, its most definaly used for seeing images in your head. Don't doubt it for a second.

The evidence is that it contains rods and cones. So there for its used for viewing things  :smiley:

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## Abra

> hey abra, did you read what ChaybaChayba said about the salyva thing.
> 
> there are several posts on this website about people who have trouble with salyva when trying to sleep.
> i somtimes have it and i and everyone else has concluded that its because we think about it, that the mouth produces it.
> this is anoying because once i think about salyva, my mouth starts to produce it and its a chain reaction.
> 
> i think this happens so easily because we are so aware of salyva, we can feel it.
> it would be a lot harder to stimulate this part of the brain because 'we' dont know its there, we are told its there.
> i think that the more i read up/ do research on this part of the brain, the more aware i will become of its existance, thus making it easier to stimulate.
> ...



 We can make ourselves salivate by thought.
_
Imagine, taking a fresh, wet lemon slice up to your lips. You bite through its bursting sour pulp, and can hear the juice spurt inside your mouth._

But that's evolutionary. When we think about food, our body prepares itself through salivation and stomach secretion.

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## DreamChaser

> Its not speculation your pineal gland contains rods and cones like your eyes, its most definaly used for seeing images in your head. Don't doubt it for a second.
> 
> The evidence is that it contains rods and cones. So there for its used for viewing things



Its also found to have crystaline structures on it and them to be the same recepticle receivers as the ears internal crystaline structures.
Mobile phone companies are researching the Pineal gland today. Figures.

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## TheMoon

> Its also found to have crystaline structures on it and them to be the same recepticle receivers as the ears internal crystaline structures.
> Mobile phone companies are researching the Pineal gland today. Figures.



Wouldn't surprise me if it had hearing also. Somethings gotta make the sounds you hear when you start to fall asleep and go to lucid dreaming. Im sure its not your ears.

Im 100&#37; convinced your pineal gland has a lot to do with dreaming and such, and im sure it can be used for a lot more then that.

Its there for a reason  :smiley:

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## Specialis Sapientia

Good post ChaybaChayba  :smiley: 

This technique is worth some tries.

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## Xetrov

> This is a 5000 year old tantra technique, as the story goes, one of the 112 meditations given by Shiva to his consort Parvati.



A dreamer168, click that link, its a description given by Osho of the technique.

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## A dreamer168

Thanks, I think that feeling the heart filled with prana will be better than just focusing on my third eye.

----

That is what you mean Right?

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## Xetrov

Yes I followed it as Osho explains, focus awareness on 3rd eye and breathing in/out. It works really calming, and for me also brought a positive feeling (energy?) when I imagined the so called "prana" to enter with the breath and flow into my heart chakra. Of course I was also thinking  that I wanted a LD that night (for skeptics, yeah I was all imagining this, there's no proof nor will I give it, and Im not delusional. I just have a big imagination).

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## A dreamer168

So you want energy to flow into the heart chakra, with the third eye as a conduit?

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## Xetrov

I suggest you read carefully what's written there, and go try it. I guess you could call it like you said though, that it's a kind of conduit.

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## A dreamer168

How does this get you an LD?

Also, do I need to roll my eyes up?

----

Xetrov, Why don't you tell me how you do the technique in steps?

The reason for this is the language Osho uses is confusing to me.


NVM, I get it. "Focusing conscious awareness on it" means that nothing else matters to you but that feeling of energy

----

I still don't see how this gets you into a LD though

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## bushi

Practice the technique over and over before falling asleep, everytime you are trying to fall asleep.

That's all you need to know.

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## Plazz

> Yeah, but you can close it anytime you want. Watching TV or computer for example closes it. That's why many people have trouble lucid dreaming. Once you get your third eye back under control, you can go into a WILD anytime, anywhere. 
> 
> Watching TV is for the third eye like riding a wheelchair for your legs. Your third eye got lazy, and it might take a while to re-activate it back to it's natural state, unless you stop watching TV/computer, but this is not necessairy. Instead of meditating on it, you can simply hold your attention on your third eye during daily activities. No effort required!




What about the TV and computer causes this closing of the third eye to occur?
The waves radiating off of it? If so, we must find a new technology for out knowledge/communication boxes.

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## bigCHEESE77

> I move my attention to the back of my head, right where my head joins my neck.  It seems to be the magic spot for me.  I also hold my consciousness here while doing reality check type awareness excercises throughout the day.



How do you move your attention to one spot or move your consciousness to one spot?

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## kr3wskater

You just focus on it, put all of your awareness into that one spot as if you were meditating on it.

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## ChaybaChayba

> What about the TV and computer causes this closing of the third eye to occur?
> The waves radiating off of it? If so, we must find a new technology for out knowledge/communication boxes.



Nah not radiation or anything, I think it's because when I watch TV too much or sit behind the computer too much I don't use my imagination anymore. For me there's a great chance in lucidity when I stop watching TV or spent less time on the computer.

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## DeathCell

> Nah not radiation or anything, I think it's because when I watch TV too much or sit behind the computer too much I don't use my imagination anymore. For me there's a great chance in lucidity when I stop watching TV or spent less time on the computer.



TV is not the problem, but an over watching and obsession with it.

Our ancestors kept their imaginations rolling in stories, novels, etc... not staring at a screen.

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## spaceexplorer

> TV is not the problem, but an over watching and obsession with it.
> 
> Our ancestors kept their imaginations rolling in stories, novels, etc... not staring at a screen.



How is staring at a fire being told a story any different from staring at a screen... that is telling you a story?

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## DeathCell

> How is staring at a fire being told a story any different from staring at a screen... that is telling you a story?



I have to explain this to you?

Stories in front of camp fires allow your imagination to form the pictures, instead of mindlessly looking at what is being given to you.

People in front of camp fires used to take turns sharing and making up stories, allowing everyone a chance to partake in the festivities. 

I don't even know why I have to explain the differences between a Television and camp fire stories...

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## spaceexplorer

> I have to explain this to you?
> 
> Stories in front of camp fires allow your imagination to form the pictures, instead of mindlessly looking at what is being given to you.
> 
> People in front of camp fires used to take turns sharing and making up stories, allowing everyone a chance to partake in the festivities. 
> 
> I don't even know why I have to explain the differences between a Television and camp fire stories...



So is theatre a bad thing too?
And radio?

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## DeathCell

> So is theatre a bad thing too?
> And radio?



Did I say television was a bad thing?

Moderation and obsession.

Per usual, you don't take the time to read what I say, and instead insinuate something I never said.

Please refer to post #290

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## Denny22

It's odd. Whenever I get into a deep relaxed state my conscious goes to my forehead or third eye area. When I focus on it I started to almost get pulled into it. It's hard to explain. :/

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## debussy

Ancient meditation techniques, Wikipedia articles on DMT and anatomic pictures of the brain equals some serious speculations.

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## Busher94

Wait. Did you guys say that dreams CAN occur in non REM sleep? So you could do it anytime?

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## ChaybaChayba

> Wait. Did you guys say that dreams CAN occur in non REM sleep? So you could do it anytime?



Yup, in my experience they can occur anytime.

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## Busher94

Interesting... does anyone know any hypnosis or techniques to get you to fall asleep? Because I can really only fall asleep when exhausted or after listening to my ipod in bed until I AM exhausted...

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## A dreamer168

Can I do this at the beginning of night time?

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## Phrisco

> Can I do this at the beginning of night time?



You could try doing that. If that fails for a few times then do it using WBTB.

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## ethan_hines

> I recently got into meditation, and discovered that you could use it to WILD! I thought I might share it with you guys, because this technique is the easiest one and most effective one I have encountered. The meditation technique I use to WILD is the following: 
> 
> _I close my eyes, and place my attention only on the center of my forehead (between my eyebrows) and on my breath. That's it.
> _
> Why does it work? Because that is where the pineal gland, the third eye, the minds eye is located. By imagining sensations at that location, you directly stimulate it. The pineal gland is the gland that secretes melatonin, which is one of the hormones responsible for dreaming. You can increase stimulation the better you can concentrate on it and the better you can induce sensations or vibrations in that area. The better your imagination, the more focussed your mind, and the less you keep talking to yourself inside your head all the time, the better this technique works. The longer you use this technique, the faster you will get into a WILD. It's like a magic button you need to push to get into dreamland.
> 
> This is a 5000 year old tantra technique, as the story goes, one of the 112 meditations given by Shiva to his consort Parvati. Still works like a charm, and it's the easiest WILD technique out there IMO. This one directly induces dreaming by stimulating the gland that secretes the dreaming hormones. I also already managed to go into dreaming during meditation without laying down, all I need to do is close my eyes and concentrate for a while. The litteral translation of the tantra technique is the following:
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!



I imagine you have to be in a highly relaxed state (body asleep/mind awake) before concentrating on your pinal gland/centre of your mind right?

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## ethan_hines

> Interesting... does anyone know any hypnosis or techniques to get you to fall asleep? Because I can really only fall asleep when exhausted or after listening to my ipod in bed until I AM exhausted...



I learned a great trick from Luminosity 101, essentially you lie down with your hands above your head till your relatively relaxed, then place them down by your side, wait till you get this uncanny urge to roll over, ignore the urge till it plateaus then roll over when you feel like it and don't move anymore and poof you're unconscious. It's called the STOP-DROP-and-ROLL method I highly recommend it

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## A dreamer168

> I learned a great trick from Luminosity 101, essentially you lie down with your hands above your head till your relatively relaxed, then place them down by your side, wait till you get this uncanny urge to roll over, ignore the urge till it plateaus then roll over when you feel like it and don't move anymore and poof you're unconscious. It's called the STOP-DROP-and-ROLL method I highly recommend it



So, it DOES work?

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## BreBruce

Can I practice stimulating my pineal gland anytime during the day?  Or just evenings and nights.

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## spiritofthewolf

i check out the link the OP gave, and I have to same I am utterly confused.. what are we suppose to look at and read? 

and yes, does this work?

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## SLiCeR

> i check out the link the OP gave, and I have to same I am utterly confused.. what are we suppose to look at and read? 
> 
> and yes, does this work?



I second spiritofthewolf with that question?

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## juroara

you mean in the first post?

the first two links are educational

the last link is only confusing because the website format is very weird. from the 112 meditations from shiva, chaybachayba posted the 7th. that entire page is the 7th technique. which relates directly to lucid dreaming.

and the 7th technique is. "With intangible breath in center of forehead, as this reaches heart at the moment of sleep, have direction over dreams and over death itself."

if you click in order you'll get a list of all 112 meditations/techniques

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## Silence Dogood

OK, I have a question about meditating on the 3rd Eye.

Should I focus on the center of my forehead directly in between (and slightly up from) my eyebrows ... ?

Or should I focus my attention into the center of my brain that is at eyebrow level, where the pineal gland is?

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## Sam the Wizer

> OK, I have a question about meditating on the 3rd Eye.
> 
> Should I focus on the center of my forehead directly in between (and slightly up from) my eyebrows ... ?
> 
> Or should I focus my attention into the center of my brain that is at eyebrow level, where the pineal gland is?



For me it's a line extending up my brow from the bridge of my nose, not just a single point.  I've found that when I get a really strong vibration going it extends along my eyebrows as well.  The important part is not to obsess about making it work.  The first time I experienced that vibration it wasn't what I was attempting to achieve, I was just in deep meditation.  I didn't clear my mind of thoughts as many say to do, I just let my thoughts flow naturally like a stream but didn't attempt to control or linger on any of them.  More than anything else, it just takes practice and awareness of your self.

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## A dreamer168

I bought a singing bowl that emits the tone that is good for the 3rd eye chakra. Will this help me?

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## Supernova

> Mobile phone companies are researching the Pineal gland today. Figures.



 ::doh::

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## iibdwnm

I just tried this (never were able to get a lucid dream until now)
I don't like that my brace(scoliosis) starts to hurt like hell when trying Wild, but were able to endure that...
I think I would have gotten one had I not chickened out (vision, consciousness, don't know, but change) .
I got very shaky, a very fast heartbeat and very short breath. 
Were scared to die :Eek: 
That normal?
Scary!

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## aktw4

> I just tried this (never were able to get a lucid dream until now)
> I don't like that my brace(scoliosis) starts to hurt like hell when trying Wild, but were able to endure that...
> I think I would have gotten one had I not chickened out (vision, consciousness, don't know, but change) .
> I got very shaky, a very fast heartbeat and very short breath. 
> Were scared to die
> That normal?
> Scary!



You weren't going to die. And yes, this is normal.

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## Recidul

Someone probably said this already, this sounds like the technique shamans used when contacting spirits.

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## kenietz

Hm, just saw that thread. Interesting cos lately that is what i am doing while i am falling asleep and i am getting sharper dreams and i can remember most of my dreams(3-4) per night easily.

But i have one question to Chayba: Lately i have a strange feeling during the day. For example im just sitting somewhere and not really thinking and then i get that buzzing feeling exactly there between the eyes. It feel weird a bit lightheaded like on mild MJ trip but different. Its just that buzz inside which sometimes takes over the top of my head as well. 
Do you have such feeling sometimes? And what could it mean. It surely feels nice  :smiley:

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## aktw4

> Hm, just saw that thread. Interesting cos lately that is what i am doing while i am falling asleep and i am getting sharper dreams and i can remember most of my dreams(3-4) per night easily.
> 
> But i have one question to Chayba: Lately i have a strange feeling during the day. For example im just sitting somewhere and not really thinking and then i get that buzzing feeling exactly there between the eyes. It feel weird a bit lightheaded like on mild MJ trip but different. Its just that buzz inside which sometimes takes over the top of my head as well. 
> Do you have such feeling sometimes? And what could it mean. It surely feels nice



I get mini migraines? Does that count?

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## ChaybaChayba

@Kenietz: Pretty cool that you feel lightheaded from that buzz, I have the same thing, that feeling you are talking about, I guess it means the third eye is activating, and my guess is that you are feeling electromagnetic radiation. The pineal gland is an electromagnetic sender and receiver, pigeons and cows use it to detect electromagnetic fields, so it is not so far-fetched to consider the possibility, that we are also able to do the same. Try feeling the EM-radiation from a television, or a computer screen to validate this  theory yourself.
Cows Really Do Have a Magnetic Sixth Sense | Wired Science | Wired.com
Electromagnetic theories of consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


@aktw4: Ha, maybe it does, because for me the migraines turn into pleasure when I learned how to use the third eye.

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## Erii

so do you just so this as you are trying to WILD? focus on the 3rd eye? no counting or anything?

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## ChaybaChayba

Yeah  sometimes I do count to keep my focus, but for the rest I just focus on the third eye. Seems easy, but your mind will try anything to divert your attention.

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## aktw4

> so do you just so this as you are trying to WILD? focus on the 3rd eye? no counting or anything?



I'd relax by counting down first.

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## yonjuushichi

Chayba Chayba, I must say that this is a damn good technique. It is working for me like a charm  :smiley:  I have practised it for quite a time now. I have heard of this technique while reading Samuel Sagan's book on Awakening The Third Eye. This is the most effective technique that stimulates the third eye. 
This tek also helps me attain OOBEs   :smiley: 

Good luck everyone!

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## kenietz

> @Kenietz: Pretty cool that you feel lightheaded from that buzz, I have the same thing, that feeling you are talking about, I guess it means the third eye is activating, and my guess is that you are feeling electromagnetic radiation. The pineal gland is an electromagnetic sender and receiver, pigeons and cows use it to detect electromagnetic fields, so it is not so far-fetched to consider the possibility, that we are also able to do the same. Try feeling the EM-radiation from a television, or a computer screen to validate this  theory yourself.



@ChaybaChayba:
Thats funny cos for some quite some time i was trying to feel the machines. What i mean is this, i had one really crappy dvd-player which was starting some dvds and some not  :smiley:  So i decided that i can influence the machine so it can start the dvd i want as well hahaha I have to say at the time i was inspired by a sci-fi book which i do not remember but there the character was able to communicate to machines directly. So at the beginning of my experiments i felt a bit stupid and actually i felt not much when i was trying to influence the machine. but after some time i had this strange feeling in my head actually about there in between the eyes which was telling me that the machine will start that damn dvd which i want to see. What i was doing was smth similar to the thing which was called 'tuning' in the movie 'dark city'. just get really concentrated on the machine and trying to feel it and try to send my will to it  :smiley: 
life is crazy enough  :smiley: ))

btw i will check the link for the electromagnetic theory. thanks 
Cheers

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## kenietz

> Cows Really Do Have a Magnetic Sixth Sense | Wired Science | Wired.com
> Electromagnetic theories of consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



@ChaybaChayba:
Hey, thanx for the links. I checked the one from Wiki. Great stuff. Now some more to read about. 
For some time I have had that feeling that our brains are connected somehow to the whole, i mean the universe whatever it is. And i was wondering how/where the information is stored at all. Further this could explain how we can influence the universe as well through our minds.  Anyway have to read to learn more about that theories.

Cheers

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## ChaybaChayba

The movie DarkCity is one awesome movie. I believe it has a hidden meaning about the reality of lucid dreaming and my experience has confirmed this to be the case too. About tuning, in some martial arts, there is such a thing called energy generation, and it comes down to generating electromagnetic energy in the body by manipulating vortices by using spirally movements. Also reminds me of the guy in the movie DarkCity who seems to do a similar thing with his eyes. In nuclear power plants, electricity is being generated by rotating electromagnetic fields, I think that would be the same principle at work here, the principle of a dynamo.

Nikola Tesla invented a little device, that would tune into the vibrating frequency of any object, say a building, and by making that tiny little device resonate with the building, it could make the entire building collapse. This is because the building vibrates at a certain frequency and by matching this frequency, tuning into it, the device could slowly alter the vibration through the idea that the vibration sways back and forth like a pendulum, so you only need to push a tiny little bit at the right moment to increase the vibration. Just like playing with a swing.

About that electromagnetic theory, it could indeed explain things like a hivemind through the resonance of the fields. Electromangetic fields resonate automatically with eachother, so maybe it is through this resonance that we are all connected. But ok that's all just speculation really. Fun to think about nonetheless  ::D:

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## kenietz

Hi,just wanted to share my last night experience.
I went to bed and made myself comfy. Then i started to concentrate on my pineal gland and to take care of my breathing. I had this nice vibration for a quite a while but i didnt enter into a dream. So i stopped and just started a normal sleep. After 2-3 h i woke up just like that. Then i was having my weird creatures(http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/weird-creatures-99686/) in front of my eyes. I tried communicating to them but no result. Then i closed my eyes and i was still able to see one of them. After that started the funny part. I had that buzz in my head starting from between the eyes and expanded on to the top of my head as well. During that time i was having such colorful visions which were only similar to those induced by shroomies. I also had auditory hallucinations if you wish. I was hearing some strange noises and sometimes words which i dont remember. Anyway that state of mind continued for quite some time and i was feeling happy. I was enjoying the beauty which i was seeing. After i started to dream i suppose cos i remember in the morning i had some dreams. But i dont remember the transition state between my strange state of mind and the dream state.

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## kenietz

@ChaybaChayba:
Lately I was trying the technique again but i think im too tired to do whatever. I find it a bit difficult to concentrate only on my pineal. So i tried something else. I concentrate on it but i use my breathing as well. What i mean is this, i start breathing only through my stomach and then i start to send energy from the stomach to my pineal gland. I mean with every exhale i send the power from the source which is under the belly button to the pineal. It sort of creates a channel between the 2 points. And cos is regulated through breathing is pulsing. Using this technique makes it easier for me to concentrate on the pineal and in the same time energize it.

In the light of the above it came to me what could be the connection with taichi. Firstly, just for the record to mention that taichi is major martial art not a relaxing sport for grannies. Secondly, taichi is created in such a way that makes one to feel the energy through the body. According to taichi theory the power center is a point called 'dan tien' located under the navel and a bit inside. From that point one can start the flow and move it around the body. Of course one can feel the power and without taichi. Once one can feel the energy one can use taichi to cultivate it though. Taichi helps one to learn that energy exists and how to move it too. But in my experience i found i can start the energy flow just by thinking about it. 
Now then, the connection. If one doesnt know about the existence of the power inside or can not move it one can use taichi to learn both. Then one can do what i tried to do in the first paragraph which in the best case could give a nice LD according to the main idea of this thread.

Cheers

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## kenietz

> Lately I was trying the technique again but i think im too tired to do whatever. I find it a bit difficult to concentrate only on my pineal. So i tried something else. I concentrate on it but i use my breathing as well. What i mean is this, i start breathing only through my stomach and then i start to send energy from the stomach to my pineal gland. I mean with every exhale i send the power from the source which is under the belly button to the pineal. It sort of creates a channel between the 2 points. And cos is regulated through breathing is pulsing. Using this technique makes it easier for me to concentrate on the pineal and in the same time energize it.



Yesterday afternoon i tried this technique and i got nice effect. I felt like i was breathing and through the space between my eyes. Then i started to feel that space being stimulated and energized and whole body energizing as well. Then there was that feeling which felt a bit like the effect of smoking MJ  :smiley:  There was this power collected from the whole body moving directly to my head and my head was feeling strange. The feeling was overwhelming even a bit scary for the body or the ego i dunno. But my mind was not scared so i let it go. Then i was having some visions but didnt enter any dreams. I had to go to taichi  :smiley:  so i stopped the experiment.

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## DreamerX97

> I can will it to do all sorts of things.



XD 

I think Abra's point is that not ALL bodily actions can be controlled mentally. Which is, of course, true.

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## kenietz

A small update on the technique: to concentrate on the pineal with sending energy to it by controlled breathing. I found that when i was exhaling slowly the energy was going from my belly down to the spine and then up the spine to the head. The whole process somehow creates a feeling of a closed circle. When exhale the power goes to the head and with inhaling the power goes back to the belly but somehow the energy is emitted from the head and reaches the belly through the air. At least thats how i felt it.

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## kenietz

Question connected to the technique in this thread which i wanted to ask for some time but i was forgeting about it. Now i remembered so here it is.

Anyone ever tried to point a knife at the spot in between the eyes? Or any kind of sharp object? I prefer knifes  :smiley:  
Anyways the feeling is the same. Very strong vibration in the area there and the longer i do it the stronger the feeling. I start with the knife on the skin then i move it away but still pointing to that area. Then just slowly move it back and forth. I was doing that plus increasing the distance between the knife and the skin. After a while i was able to feel the knife from quite a distance as the length of my arm allowed. I was able to put the knife back on my skin from whatever distance with closed eyes just using the strong feeling as guide. Weird stuff but ... works  :smiley:  Unfortunately then i was not thinking about connection to pineal gland or dreams. Have to try it again and will report  :smiley:  Still it may be that it stimulates the pineal in some way.

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## whiterain

i tried something like this last night, and got to a stage where there was a white circle in the middle of the blackness. i moved it towards me a little, but it was tricky to maintain and it eventually faded out

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## opalwolf

yeahhh!! I did the DEILD technique again last night! just woke up from it! wanted to share! this is a GREAT technique! i totally had an "almost" convincing false awakening, but it happened in the WRONG house, i was sort of unsure if it was a dream or not (at first) so i pretended to sleep walk. then i was staring at the sunrise and thinking (wow, this dream is REALLY convincing) haha!

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## Spyguy

I'll definitely try this out. Just to get it straight: what you do is concentrate on the spot where the third eye is located while falling asleep/WILDing?  (I already knew of this meditation technique and used it, but I never imagined it to be this usefull O.O Ty for posting it)

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## Kunal19

Only one problem in this...
As the time goes we loose concentration over our third eye...

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## bakbaba

I tried using this technique for hours but instead of a lucid dream, I just got a headache.  :Sad:

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## Caden

> I tried using this technique for hours but instead of a lucid dream, I just got a headache.



Yes this happens to me too.  I am wondering if my 3rs eye is already too open already so I moved on to others.

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## Hussain

*Really good post chaybaChayba ! However, it seems similar to the Suneye method by Joe Russa .*

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## nzshaman

i completely agree with ChaybaChayba. focusing on that point and your breath while clearing the mind is a great way to open your third eye(pineal gland). you can also practise the soham mantra for a while to help focus your attention inwards. look it up on google if you havent heard of it.

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## spiralsofgold

> Dreams only occuring in rem-state is nothing but an urban legend.



ahhh! Yes thank you finally someone who thinks this like I do. XD I believe dreams just happen when your spirit is out of your body, and then dreams are translated by the subconscious/unconscious mind in split-seconds as you are awakening back into your physical body.

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## spiralsofgold

> Yeah indeed good point, the center of your mind is more accurate, but It's easier to locate the center of your forehead instead of the center of your mind IMO. Concentrating on the center of your forehead, between the eyebrows, will also activate the center of your mind. It's the same thing.



I find that simply focusing energy on my head generally, not specifically on my forehead, and on numbing my body does the trick. I used to use this method for channeling attempts and tried it for WILDing at bedtime and I almost got it! Maybe instead of trying to shift my attention somehow onto having a lucid dream and questioning how will it feel etc I should simply continue to focus energy on my head.

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## Orb

I find that I have done this technique my whole life, after I realized when I was about 8 that if I focused on breathing I could control my awareness. Honestly it is a natural process I go through every night, I will focus on breathing for a bit to put my attention inward, that alone stimulates my pineal gland. Dont ask me how, but I just assume its from lots of conscious focus on my pineal gland while learning astral projection. Another thing that I have noticed that I do is I will squint alot to keep my attention on my forehead. This does two things that are important to me 1) Focuses my attention on my pineal gland and 2) shuts down my visual center, which allows me to relax and have my intuition in control. I feel like this is something I can do every night that should show results and without too much effort either.

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## Dreamer4127

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I just tried this technique and my eyes keep vibrating/flickering is that normal? and i am getting vibrations but only in my head not the rest of my body then after that i dont really know what to do :l

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## gan_naire

I just tried this like an hour ago, after reading just the original post, I put on my headphones, blasting Metallica (Black album for the heavy beats), sat back on my couch and closed my eyes. I notice when my headphones are on with music playing, that my mind naturally won't race around or anything, it actually just gets silent, which is really nice. But after a while, multiple things happened using visualization (or at least close to it since I don't see clearly when I visualize).

1. I pictured rubbing the skin off the area of my forehead where my third eye is, not bloody or anything, but like the skin fell off like paint. I had a little success with doing this.
2. I imagined a strong beam of light coming down to that area and more or less pulsating against the area as if to try and break through my skull to the center of my brain, where the actual gland is. I had a little more success with this.
3. I imagined a bird with its feet on my eyes (or claws, whatever birds' feet are called) and it pecked at the third eye area similar to how the crow did to Eric Draven's tombstone in The Crow. This helped out a bit.
4. Then out of no where, it was like I was looking down on my physical body, and I was hovering over it, and I took two really long nails, smiled at my physical body and drove them through my temples with a harsh force, so that the tips would be at that gland. When I did this, it felt as if I were going into a seizure, but I've never been scared of SP or anything, so I went with it. Then my "spirit self" took two more long nails, drove one through the base of my skull (like they do in The Matrix I think) and then I just floated there for a bit, smiling down at my physical body, and then with the final one, I drove it through the third eye area. When I did this, I went into another type of mini seizure where my whole body was shaking and it felt as though the center of my brain became alive and aware. My "spirit self" floated back and stared at my physical body, smiling as usual (guess I smile a lot) and then the ends of the nails lit up like huge balls of light. This is where I came out of it and opened my eyes.

Any ideas what was going on with the last one? Was I where I needed to be? Should I have done something else at that point to enter the dream world?

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## Ketsuyume

Wow Gan, that's fascinating. Was it like you were experiencing both "Bodies" at the same time in sort of a paradoxical way? You should describe this in detail more. I'm really interested.

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## DreamBliss

Just a quick note after reading on the first page here...

The Third-Eye chakra is like a flower made of energy which opens in the middle of your forehead, between and just above your eyes, but it actually does have roots in the upper area of your spine. I forget the exact name - somewhere where spine connects to the head. I'm still learning about this. For beginners (like me!) it's usually easier to focus on where the energy blooms outside or on the body instead of the root in the spine.

You can also use the 6th and 7th chakras, seeing the one you choose as a sort of door, to leave the body. I imagine you could use the 7th chakra to also consciously enter an LD.
- DreamBliss

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## Ctharlhie

> Just a quick note after reading on the first page here...
> 
> The Third-Eye chakra is like a flower made of energy which opens in the middle of your forehead, between and just above your eyes, but it actually does have roots in the upper area of your spine. I forget the exact name - somewhere where spine connects to the head. I'm still learning about this. For beginners (like me!) it's usually easier to focus on where the energy blooms outside or on the body instead of the root in the spine.
> 
> You can also use the 6th and 7th chakras, seeing the one you choose as a sort of door, to leave the body. I imagine you could use the 7th chakra to also consciously enter an LD.
> - DreamBliss



Brainstem is what you're looking for  :smiley:  Tibetan dream yoga believes that the brainstem and base of throat are the centre of creativity chakras.

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## Yozy

> I've also entered dreams through meditation but more often than not (since I can't achieve a full lotus posture) my head drops forward and I wake myself up just as I'm immersing into the hypnogogic imagery... I think its better to maintain yourself in the altered state at the threshold of theta and sleep... at the threshold of the veil.



I do something similar on a regular basis. Usually in the morning when I get up unless I have to go to work or something and also before I go to bed. What is weird when I do it though is I never get the hypnogogic imagery and I don't remember ever getting it even when I was a child. It is like I start to fade out and it is kinda like putting on an old television. The thing turns on, you start to hear voices and see the outlines of images and as the tubes warm up the images get brighter and clearer until finally they are a full blown dream. Generally I do it in Full Lotus posture, but i find corpse position (laying down) works just as well when that is not an option (like when I am camping and I don't feel like doing it in the mud or on the wet floor of the tent). Generally what I do is let the energy run up and down my spine for a bit and then decide what chakra to "stop" it at. I find that using different chakras creates different imagery (for example anahata (heart) or anja (pineal gland) often creates a projection of myself for me to walk through...kinda like a self psychoanalysis while activation of swadisthana (stomach) or muldahra (groin) often creates things of a shall we say "red hot" earthy nature  ::embarrassed:: .

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## MissLucy

I'm going to try this tonight. I wonder, though, does this bypass Hypnogogic Hallucinations?

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## Ctharlhie

> I'm going to try this tonight. I wonder, though, does this bypass Hypnogogic Hallucinations?



It will probably induce more vivid hypnagogia, it's what I find anyway.

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## MissLucy

Flip. I HATE hypnagogia. With a passion. Hmph, guess this one isn't for me after all, then. Sorry guys. I'll get over my fear of them first, and then try this.

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## dalecooper

Hey guys, I posted my situation on a separate post here, but nobody answered anything. I said I can get the area tingling, sometimes up to the point of hurting a little, even right now as I write this lines it's happening again.

I have yet to have my first LD, so far no success. But thinking about this, is this a path to more lucid daydreams? I guess I could use that for now. Last week, when I seated cross-legged, hands on my knees and closed eyes concentrating in that area (It was already tingling) I started to visualize myself (in first-person) awakening in a swimming pool looking up on some palm trees (I guess Miami or LA style). I was weird, It wasn't really daydreaming, it was something else, but the excitement and other distraction (Neighbour's noise) got the best of me and I haven't been able to get there again. (Of course, I've only done this 2 more times, and not that long or relaxed, so I have faith).

But then is good I can induce this state almost everytime I try (and sometimes withouth trying)?

I have a little fear also, since I've read something about awakening the third eye being something that could gave you more than you're bargaining for... 

Thanks.

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## anderj101

Please don't necro-post in an old thread. It would be much better to start your own new thread.  :lock:

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