# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  Quickly Transition From Vibrations to LD

## nina

In exploring the vibrational state I have intuitively discovered, as I assume others have, that there is a level of conscious control to how and where the vibrations manifest in the body. 

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(unnecessary background info, feel free to skip) 
My interest with the vibrational state started as a result of finding myself stuck there on many occasions, sometimes for several minutes, waiting to enter a lucid dream. After awhile it gets boring, just laying there, very conscious, with your whole body vibrating. So I attempted to direct the vibrations to a certain area of my body, to see if I could at least make good use of them. To my amazement, it worked...and I have actually been able to achieve orgasm this way on many occasions (and I know others on this forum have as well). 

More recently I've been channeling the vibrations to different areas of my body, and using the vibration to massage my chakras. I really have no clue what it is exactly that I'm doing, it might even have a name (usually all of my discoveries are natural or intuitive and then later I read about them online and find that they are well known), but all I know is that it always feels absolutely amazing. Sometimes I opt for the full body massage. 

Perhaps it's not so much that I am directing the vibrations to different areas of my body, but more so, focusing on those vibrations in some area of the body and consciously willing them to become intensified. They respond completely and totally to my will...and that is one of the most confusing and amazing parts.
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*But here's the real reason why I bothered to make this thread...* Last night I found myself in the vibrational state after attempting to re-enter a lucid dream...and instead of channeling the vibrations to various parts of my body...I channeled them to my brain, just to see what would happen. 

The second I did that, something pretty interesting happened. I felt a specific area of my brain respond to the vibrations. Instead of getting the nice feel good massage that comes with the intensified vibrations, I could tell something different was occurring.

That whole area of my brain just sort of lit up, or..."switched on"...and as I concentrated on increasing the intensity of the vibrations in that area....it starting vibrating faster and faster, humming just like a hard drive booting up. Eventually it was vibrating so fast, that I could no longer detect it...and I was suddenly inside a very vivid, very clear, and stable lucid dream.

Had I discovered a way to consciously engender a lucid dream directly from the vibrational state? A way to bypass the wait through the normally passive vibrational and hypnagogic stages, which for me sometimes take several minutes or even longer?

Exciting possibilities, but of course...it could just have been a coincidence. But I had a theory, and I was anxious to test it out. 

Luckily after that first experience, I was able to use the dream re-entry technique two more times that same night to test out my new theory. I once again found myself in the vibrational state, and I noticed that the vibrations were subtle and consistent throughout my body. I directed them upwards to that same area of the brain...and again it started buzzing and whirling away like I had just switched it on. I remember a tickling sensation in my brain and at one point my ears popped. Seconds later I was in a lucid dream. 

On the final occasion I had barely left my lucid dream, when I began concentrating on that same area of my brain. It was as though it was winding down as my dream faded out, but once I focused my attention back to it, it started buzzing again, and I entered a new lucid dream right away without having to enter any transitional states like vibrations/hypnagogia. 

Sometimes I'd have to sit through ten minutes of vibrations or get stuck in hypnagogia and eventually just give up. So discovering the ability to make an active and conscious choice to progress into a lucid dream, for me at least, is pretty cool. Perhaps anyone who has experienced similar long waits through the vibrational stage or hypnagogia, or who tends to get stuck there waiting for the dream to happen, may find this very simple technique beneficial. 

Of course, as of right now, it seems like this has only worked for me, and only a few times over the course of a single night. I guess the real reason for writing this is that I hope others will test it out and see if it works for them. It's such a simple technique but if proven to work for others as well, then at the very least, it would make a nice little addition to a few of our tutorials.

*Here is a very basic "how to" if you want to test this out for yourself.* 

When you find yourself in the vibrational state...
1. Focus your attention to an area of your brain near the top and front of your head
2. Concentrate on this area and imagine/will/manipulate/etc. the vibrations you are feeling to flow or move to this area
3. Concentrate on increasing the intensity of the vibrations to this area
4. At this point you should already feel this area of your brain sort of "switch on" ...and it will be vibrating very differently, with a different frequency, speed, and intensity than the rest of your body
5. Once you are able to feel this different vibration, just concentrate on it. The harder you concentrate on this vibration, the faster it vibrates, and the louder the buzzing/humming inside your head
6. When the vibration becomes so fast that the humming is barely detectable...you are already inside a lucid dream. 

This whole process takes just a few seconds.

Let me know if you have any luck with it.  :smiley:

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## cmind

This is called WILD...

Goddamn.

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## nina

> This is called WILD...
> Goddamn.



No it's not. Keep your arrogant ignorance in your OWN threads please. 

I am very experienced with WILD...if you understood the thread at all you would have realized that it deals with a nuance of the WILDing technique occurring specifically during the vibrational stage. Anyway, reread and correct yourself, or do not post again if you can't even read the content before posting your sardonic remarks.

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## rynkrt3

I know this is a noob question, but, how do you get these vibrations?

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## MindGames

Would you say this vibrational state is caused by sleep paralysis in some form? I'm at the point of WILDing where I can induce SP, so maybe I could test this out by trying to redirect the "vibrations" of sleep paralysis to my upper forehead.

I still remain skeptical, but I'm willing to try it.

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## JP

Sounds pretty interesting, the vibrating sensations are achieved through sleep paralysis correct?

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## nina

Yes these are the vibrations associated with sleep paralysis, as achieved when attempting to WILD, or in between dreams during DEILD.

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## Irken

I don't believe I've ever felt these vibrations, I'd like to though.

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## mcwillis

> This is called WILD...
> 
> Goddamn.



I agree with Aquanina, you either haven't read the entirety of her post or you are very inexperienced.  I presume it's the second point I made.

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## mcwillis

Excellent tip Aquanina.  I shall definately be trying this in my normal WILD inductions.  There is another book that employs a method of manipulting the brain but different to your method and is highly successful, and also works for 95% of people.  So your method should be easy to reproduce for others as long as they are in a deep enough state of vibration.

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## mcwillis

> I don't believe I've ever felt these vibrations, I'd like to though.



I have found I can enter strong vibrations over my whole body from my neck downwards often within five minutes using the computer menu visualisation combined with the shifted blackboard technique and stimulus spikes from the lucidology102 course.

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## Irken

I never took that course  :Sad: . Are they posted somewhere? In any event, I think I entered the vibrational state, completely accidentally last night. I am having a bit of trouble remembering as it happened at 4:46 am or nearly. What happened was that I was exiting a dream, in my dream my brother was playing music really loudly in my room so I told him to leave and he did, because in my dream I was trying to sleep. He looked sad so I felt bad for a lil bit, then I woke up. I felt an odd sensation come over my body and I wasn't even aware that I was in my bed at this moment I figured out that I was asleep or nearly asleep and this was the vibrational state, I immediately tried concentrating the vibrations to my head and for a lil bit it worked, but I didn't have much grasp over these vibrations and I woke up soon after.

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## cmind

Vibrations occur during SP. Vibrations naturally spread from the extremities into the torso and lastly the head, as SP progresses. This will always happen as long as you don't break SP.

This is WILD.

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## Perlinfalcon

> Vibrations occur during SP. Vibrations naturally spread from the extremities into the torso and lastly the head, as SP progresses. This will always happen as long as you don't break SP.
> 
> This is WILD.



I don't get your point. 

No one is claiming this isn't a WILD. She's just explaining her method of consciously controlling the vibrations that sometimes naturally occur during a WILD. It sounds like it could be an interesting experiment for some people. It won't apply to me, though, because I usually only get vibrations for a very short time or not at all before I transition into a dream.

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## nina

> Excellent tip Aquanina.  I shall definately be trying this in my normal WILD inductions.  There is another book that employs a method of manipulting the brain but different to your method and is highly successful, and also works for 95% of people.  So your method should be easy to reproduce for others as long as they are in a deep enough state of vibration.



I was hoping you would reply.  :smiley:  I actually wrote this thread a few weeks ago but decided not to post for personal reasons. Then I saw your thread and was rather taken aback because you seemed to be describing exactly what I had experienced. I had never seen this issue brought up before, so I figured I would post and see if you recognized what I was describing as similar to what you read. But you mention that it is different...in what way? It's interesting that I usually discover these things by instinct and a natural curiosity, and then later find out that there have been books written about it.  ::reading::  





> Vibrations naturally spread from the extremities into the torso and lastly the head, as SP progresses. This will always happen as long as you don't break SP.



Please provide citations as to where you got this information, or do not state your opinion as fact. I think it goes without saying that I disagree with your assertion. 

Vibrations are not equal to WILD, nor are they limited to only the WILD experience, just like SP is not confined to WILD. Therefore, what is being discussed here goes well beyond merely WILD, although you seem to lack the knowledge to understand such a distinction.

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## Irken

> Excellent tip Aquanina.  I shall definately be trying this in my normal WILD inductions.  There is another book that employs a method of manipulting the brain but different to your method and is highly successful, and also works for 95% of people.  So your method should be easy to reproduce for others as long as they are in a deep enough state of vibration.



What book? Also, where do you get those statistics from?

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## Puffin

Very neat! I'll be sure to try this if I can get myself into SP for one fricking time.  :Bang head:

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## Robot_Butler

I'm glad you posted this.  I've been playing with the same thing for the past several years.  I've found I can direct the vibrating sensation to different parts of my body, or even will it to be stronger or weaker by subtly flexing.  It is a very strange feeling.  

Unlike your description, when I force the vibrations to become stronger, it rarely leads to a lucid dream.  Normally, it just makes me feel uncomfortably jittery and claustrophobic.  Sometimes the feeling is so intense, I feel like I am going to explode if I don't move on or get away from my body.  

I have the most success  when I try to open the feeling to incorporate my surroundings.  I don't know if that makes any sense.  Instead of directing the feeling to a certain area, I spread it outward, like I am opening my awareness, or ballooning outward into my surroundings.  It is hard to describe these feelings, since they are not entirely physical or spacial.

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## LikesToTrip

Interesting, I've never tried focusing them on the brain. Anytime I get stuck in the vibration state without transitioning to an LD I have to set an alarm, fall asleep, and try a DEILD when it goes off. Hopefully this can cut out the middle man. Thanks for the tip.

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## mcwillis

> Vibrations occur during SP



Not for me they don't.  I experience the vibrations long before sleep paralysis and I have to wait and relax through the vibration stage.

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## mcwillis

> I was hoping you would reply.  I actually wrote this thread a few weeks ago but decided not to post for personal reasons. Then I saw your thread and was rather taken aback because you seemed to be describing exactly what I had experienced. I had never seen this issue brought up before, so I figured I would post and see if you recognized what I was describing as similar to what you read. But you mention that it is different...in what way? It's interesting that I usually discover these things by instinct and a natural curiosity, and then later find out that there have been books written about it.



How could I not reply to a thread entitled 'Quickly Transition From Vibrations to LD'  :smiley:   That to me is very exciting and I understand how valuable such a technique would be.  Like you I can be stuck in vibrations for a long time unable to relax through them and give up which is very annoying.  I would like to stress to everyone that the following technique described below is unlikely to work on its own whereas Aquanina's technique may do because she has described moving the vibrations to a particular part of the brain rather than around the body.  This is a very important difference.  If enough people experiment with Aquanina's discovery then this may become a wonderful new technique that she has discovered.  Aquanina I feel that because you have a good understanding of chakras and thus probably have experience of meditation coupled with being a woman you will have a good connection with your intuition and therefore are able to discover these things.  EDIT:  Actually the 95% statistic is from the training phase - my mistake, sorry folks.  From the practical use of the technique it has a 15% success rate thus explaining why it didn't work for Robot_Butler.  However, lets hope Aquanina's method of directing the vibes to the top and front of the brain makes a substantial difference.  Though it may be that you fall into that 15% category that has excellent success with the technique described below without the need to perform the multitude of other techniques described in the book the technique below comes from.

Onto the different technique:

Testing Individual Effectiveness:

Immediately after waking from sleep, remain motionless, eyes closed. Make 2 to 3 squeezes straining the brain. This is known as straining the brain. If nothing happens, try another technique. If vibrations occur during this exercise, try to move the vibrations around the body and amplify them by continuing to strain the brain. The stronger the vibrations, the higher the probability that a separation technique may be applied.  Spontaneous separation may occur. While straining the brain, a practitioner may experience the sounds necessary for transitioning to a listening in technique.  The vibrations that arise from straining the brain are very striking. If there is any doubt as to whether the vibrations happened, then most likely a practitioner did not experience them. The vibrations may be described as an intense, painless electrical current moving through or gripping the body. At times, the sensation of a total numbing of the body is experienced.

Training:

To practice straining the brain, lie down, eyes closed, and attempt to strain the brain. Do not think about the fact that actually squeezing the brain is impossible. The imagined straining should be spasmodic, rhythmic. Practitioners may strain the entire brain or specific parts of it. During the process, a sensation of pressure or even real strain arises in the brain. With 95% of practitioners, this strain usually occurs within the first few minutes of exercise. This technique should be committed to memory when training so that it may be instantly recalled and practiced upon awakening from sleep.  Practitioners often make the mistake of unintentionally straining their facial and neck muscles instead of straining the interior of their heads. This error should be avoided at all costs, lest it become a habit that frustrates genuine practice.

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## mcwillis

> What book? Also, where do you get those statistics from?



As I don't want to hijack this thread and direct you to a different thread from here I have sent you a PM with the link.

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## JP

Thanks for the help mcwillis, I've never experienced vibrations before but now I feel more informed and ready to perform.

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## mcwillis

> Very neat! I'll be sure to try this if I can get myself into SP for one fricking time.



If Aquanina's technique can be reproduced by others then it won't be necessary for you to be in SP for this to work  :smiley:

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## Jay12341235

You aren't paralyzed in this state were you? Were you halucinating yet?

I've experienced vibrations many times, none being in SP. Hopefully This will work for me as well!

When I get them, I'm just laying in bed fully conciouss and they start suddenly and end soon. I can still move my body. 

Does this sound like yours?

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## Alucinor XIII

I've noticed that I can intensify the vibrations in general if I focus my attention to that area, but realized that my facial muscles and eyes around that area also tense up a bit, and I assumed that would screw up the WILD. I'm going to give it a go tonight... Have you noticed if you scrunch up your face as a side-effect of this, or is it strictly mental?

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## Chimpertainment

This vibration technique sounds cool. The one time ive been able to WILD was using this technique. Based on descriptions of SP i dont think ive experienced that since childhood however this vibration stage is quite enjoyable. I was just lying there trying to WILD while napping and the vibrations started. One thing that helps it seems is indulging the vibrations kind of like absorbing the feeling of a warm drink or fire. When i did this the vibrations power increased exponentially. Then just like Aquanina said a lucid dream formed. Interestingly mine was sort of like an OBE in that i "woke up" laying on my bed and had to step out of my body. 
Also about your learning Aquanina: Learning intuitively was the way i learned how to lucid dream since i didnt even know what it was at the time. It seems we all have the skill naturally and we can intuitively listen to our body's responses in order to increase our skill. I am glad you are open enough to learn this way, as i think it is the best way to learn. Good luck on your future vibratory excursions!  :smiley:

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## nina

> Unlike your description, when I force the vibrations to become stronger, it rarely leads to a lucid dream.  Normally, it just makes me feel uncomfortably jittery and claustrophobic.  Sometimes the feeling is so intense, I feel like I am going to explode if I don't move on or get away from my body.



Try first moving the vibrations to your brain (without trying to increase intensity)...somewhere near the top front part of the head. It's a very specific area, but it seemed to be the only area in the brain that responded to the vibrations so I don't think it will be hard to pinpoint. Once it starts vibrating you will actually be able to feel it as a mass of nerve cells firing in sync (actually called a *neural ensemble), and it will begin vibrating very soft and subtly at first, and differently from the rest of the vibrations you had been experiencing. Only then, when the vibration is focused on that particular neural ensemble, do you move awareness to it and attempt to accelerate the vibration.  





> You aren't paralyzed in this state were you? Were you halucinating yet?
> 
> When I get them, I'm just laying in bed fully conciouss and they start suddenly and end soon. I can still move my body. 
> 
> Does this sound like yours?



Yes I was already in sleep paralysis when the vibrations began...I don't think you will get the vibrations unless you _are_ fully in sleep paralysis. No I was not hallucinating yet...and in fact, I skipped the hypnagogic hallucinations and went straight to lucid dream. 

You shouldn't be able to move your body during the vibrational state because you would already be in SP at that point.





> I've noticed that I can intensify the vibrations in general if I focus my attention to that area, but realized that my facial muscles and eyes around that area also tense up a bit, and I assumed that would screw up the WILD. I'm going to give it a go tonight... Have you noticed if you scrunch up your face as a side-effect of this, or is it strictly mental?



I'm no expert on pain/tension but here's my theory.

In pain science, thresholds are measured by gradually increasing the intensity of a stimulus such as electric current, this is basically what you are doing when consciously intensifying any vibration. It is my belief that the body registers changes in vibrational frequencies as tension. In truth, there's nothing bad or painful about tension...it's only different to what we're used to...so the mind registers different vibrations as pleasure or pain, and I've experienced both. I don't scrunch up my face at all or anything though, for me this all takes place pretty deep inside the head, and I'm so used to working with different vibrational frequencies that I don't even register them as tension or pain anymore...and I merely consciously observe it as a different frequency. I think that's one of the keys to becoming more self aware of what is going on inside your own brain: learning how to recognize brain frequencies, common neural pathways, and when different areas or neural ensembles become activated and to what purpose. 





> Also about your learning Aquanina: Learning intuitively was the way i learned how to lucid dream since i didnt even know what it was at the time. It seems we all have the skill naturally and we can intuitively listen to our body's responses in order to increase our skill. I am glad you are open enough to learn this way, as i think it is the best way to learn. Good luck on your future vibratory excursions!



Me too!  :smiley:  And thanks, you too!

*In large-scale oscillations, amplitude changes are considered to result from changes in synchronization within a neural ensemble, also referred to as local synchronization, and have been linked to cognitive functions such as perception and motor control.

I really hope others have success with this strategy!

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## mcwillis

It's interesting that Neil Slade gives instructions on his website for activating the amygdala nuclei in the media temporal lobes.  

Amygdala Activation

P.S. You locked the tarot thread before I could reply...  Oh well, I can't defy a mod rod!  I prefer the half naked angel to the broken ginger bread man  :smiley:

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## nina

Thank you for letting me know about the Tarot thread! I have no idea how that got closed.  ::hrm:: 

I'm definitely going to read through everything in that link you provided, thanks. I've been messing around with exploring my brain for a few years now. It's wonderful.

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## mcwillis

> Thank you for letting me know about the Tarot thread! I have no idea how that got closed. 
> 
> I'm definitely going to read through everything in that link you provided, thanks. I've been messing around with exploring my brain for a few years now. It's wonderful.



Sorry, I assumed it must have been you.  Mysterious...

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## Malac Reborn

Aquanina, I've basically been doing the same thing for a while. Except, I learn that these vibration were unneeded, and I would instead, usually simulate the feeling of passing out [1], when my body felt tired/weak. Waiting late for the vibrations to be felt is like waiting to accept being in a dream only when the emergence of a dream scene comes to view, when you could already be in one.

[1] Kinda imagine dying in the "fading away" fashion.

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## Mzzkc

Interesting thread, Aquanina. I haven't done much with vibrations in a long time (I typically just ignore them), but this sounds like a great reason to start experimenting again. 

Thanks for posting this! I'll report back with my results when I get the chance. ^.^

Also, I figured I'd weigh in on the debate with cmind:

Cmind, the technique Aquanina is relating here isn't, itself, a WILD. Instead, it's a cool trick that could potentially be focused into a transitional method, among other things. There's a pretty big difference there, but the important thing to understand is what Aquanina has presented is an entirely new offshoot of study that could have many applications, including, but not limited to, achieving WILDs.

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## nina

Well said Mzzkc, and thank you. I hope you have some success with this technique if you get the opportunity to use it.  :smiley:

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## mikeac

I tried this a few months ago while listening to delta binaural beats and for some reason it gave me a huge headache, so I had to turn the music off.  I think it wont hurt to try it again but this time without binaural beats.

@Jay12341235 I get vibrations too when I'm not in SP.

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## Jay12341235

> Yes I was already in sleep paralysis when the vibrations began...I don't think you will get the vibrations unless you _are_ fully in sleep paralysis. No I was not hallucinating yet...and in fact, I skipped the hypnagogic hallucinations and went straight to lucid dream. 
> 
> You shouldn't be able to move your body during the vibrational state because you would already be in SP at that point.



I get the vibrations often, but no SP

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## Mzzkc

Was gonna wait 'till I had a couple more experiences before posting, but I've got some time now, so I figured, "Why not?"

My first go at Aquanina's technique (needs an name, please no "ILD" DX ) was meant to be a practice round to get myself acquainted with sustaining and directing the sensations. As such, I made the attempt before getting any sleep in order to see A.) How far I could get; B.) How long it would take; and C.) What I could do with the vibrations.

((This got tl;dr so I shortened it))

Remember, I made the attempt before any sleep in order to better determine its overall effectiveness. So, no LD, but I did get some good information. 

Firstly, the technique got me as far as HH in about ten to twenty minutes (confirmed by horizontal spinning sensations identical to those I've experienced during successful attempts before) which is farther than I've ever gotten during attempts directly before bed.

Redirection of the vibrations is fairly intuitive, and they _can_ be used to induce orgasm (nice tip there, btw).

Finding the spot in the brain to focus on was trickier; it sorta found itself. The area in question, for me, was about at brow level, slightly to the left, about an inch or two into the brain. I'd relate a description of the sensation, but I don't trust my memory of it right now.

Finally, I figured out that I could start/restart the vibrations by focusing in on that spot for a few minutes and then redirecting the sensation to my hands. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to achieve this every time I tried it, so take that with a grain of salt.


From here I plan to try this during a proper WBTB and see what happens. Should be fun.

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## tommo

YES!!!! Definitely on to something here.  I got the closest I've been to consciously WILD'ing.  The few other times I've WILDed I sort of just ended up in a dream as far as I can remember.

But I tried this last night before I'd slept at all and I started getting slight HI (A problem for me is that if I try to dream or even enter a dream right at the beginning of the night, before dreaming at all, the visuals are very vague and dark).
Like geometric patterns pulsating quickly towards me.  I've never seen something like this before while WILD'ing.
I think if I do this after sleeping for a bit, or during the afternoon, this will work great.

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## cuckoo

First of all, it's my first post. Hello, everyone.

Thank you for the idea, it is very interesting. I usually get to strong vibrations before five minutes from going to sleep, so if this works it would be perfect for me.

I'm also an example for the fact, that SP doesn't have to occur when vibrations do.

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## youngjedi

Finally something that explains what to do with vibrations!!!! Thanks!

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## nina

> My first go at Aquanina's technique (needs an name, please no "ILD" DX ) was meant to be a practice round to get myself acquainted with sustaining and directing the sensations. 
> 
> Redirection of the vibrations is fairly intuitive, and they _can_ be used to induce orgasm (nice tip there, btw).
> 
> Finding the spot in the brain to focus on was trickier; it sorta found itself. The area in question, for me, was about at brow level, slightly to the left, about an inch or two into the brain. I'd relate a description of the sensation, but I don't trust my memory of it right now.
> 
> From here I plan to try this during a proper WBTB and see what happens. Should be fun.



Don't worry...I wouldn't let it become an "ILD" lol. And yes, redirection of the vibrations IS really intuitive and easy. That's one of the things I probably could have stressed a bit better. But it's strange how much the vibrations react to mere thought. It's surprising to have control over, what seems to be, an autonomous body function. I also agree with your placement in the brain...it is deep, not peripheral. However I thought that telling people to focus on the top front of the brain, that their consciousness would naturally at least pass through and recognize the sweet spot on their journey towards that area of the top front part of the skull. I didn't want to tell people to feel for something deep in the brain because that gets more difficult to visualize, and overshooting it seems to have worked well since you did manage to discover the spot easily, yeah? I'm not explaining it well so let me know if I've confused you, and good luck using this to get a LD. 





> But I tried this last night before I'd slept at all and I started getting slight HI (A problem for me is that if I try to dream or even enter a dream right at the beginning of the night, before dreaming at all, the visuals are very vague and dark).
> Like geometric patterns pulsating quickly towards me.  I've never seen something like this before while WILD'ing.
> I think if I do this after sleeping for a bit, or during the afternoon, this will work great.



My visuals are really dark at that part of the night too...I guess it has to do with the natural stage the body wants to enter at that time, which is NREM/slow wave sleep. My more colorful HI and dreams will always occur later in the night and early morning. Anyways, hope it works for ya when you try it during a WILD.

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## mikeac

I think you may wan't to check this out. It's semi-related and it's about stimulating the pineal gland in order to induce lucid dreams.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/stimul...l-gland-80650/

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## Clairvoyance

Quick question. What exactly does OP mean by "Vibrations"?

When I tried to WILD, I came into a state whre I could feel jolts at certain, or random, parts of my body. I don't know if this is what you guys are refering to as vibrations. I don't think I ever felt my whole body vibrate before. All I've felt were simple jolts and twitches, all uncontrollable.

If what I am experiencing is not what you guys call "vibrations", can one of you kindly provide an explanation? I know it sounds obvious, but I've felt so many things when trying out WILD that it's hard to tell what's what.

Also, how long does it take for you guys to feel these vibrations? Do they happen shortly after you begin your WILD attempt or do they take longer? An estimate would be really nice!

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## cuckoo

> Quick question. What exactly does OP mean by "Vibrations"?
> 
> When I tried to WILD, I came into a state whre I could feel jolts at certain, or random, parts of my body. I don't know if this is what you guys are refering to as vibrations. I don't think I ever felt my whole body vibrate before. All I've felt were simple jolts and twitches, all uncontrollable.
> 
> If what I am experiencing is not what you guys call "vibrations", can one of you kindly provide an explanation? I know it sounds obvious, but I've felt so many things when trying out WILD that it's hard to tell what's what.



It's like epilepsy attack, only your body doesn't move and it's not painful. It's a sensation of vibrations through the whole body, not just single twitches. In my case it starts with eyelids.





> Also, how long does it take for you guys to feel these vibrations? Do they happen shortly after you begin your WILD attempt or do they take longer? An estimate would be really nice!



It seems the time is different for everyone. For me, they occur very quickly, usually before five minutes from closing my eyes. Many people here say it connects with sleep paralysis, which would mean that vibrations occur considerably later.

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## mikeac

> When I tried to WILD, I came into a state whre I could feel jolts at certain, or random, parts of my body. I don't know if this is what you guys are refering to as vibrations. I don't think I ever felt my whole body vibrate before. All I've felt were simple jolts and twitches, all uncontrollable.



Those are called hypnogogic jerks, and they usually only occur during the 1st wake-sleep transition.  These will probably go away if you WILD during a WBTB.

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## nina

> I think you may wan't to check this out. It's semi-related and it's about stimulating the pineal gland in order to induce lucid dreams.
> 
> http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/stimul...l-gland-80650/



The pineal gland is just that...a gland. As far as I can tell, it has no relationship with dreaming whether lucid or not. 

Some basic info on dream physiology...





> *Lower Brain Causes REM sleep*
> The oldest part of the brain, shared by all vertebrates, is the brain stem. In 1977, Allan Hobson and R McCarley discovered that electrochemical pulses from the brain stem create the stage of sleep in which most dreams occur. Known as REM, which stands for rapid eye movement, this stage of sleep guides the paralysis of all voluntary muscle groups, except for the eyes. Scientists believe these brain pulses from the pons region of the brain stem may create the seemingly random shifts in dream scenery for which dreams are so well known.
> 
> *Middle Brain Adds Emotions*
> When dreaming sleep begins, the middle brain "lights up" with activity. In fact, this part of the brain, which humans share with all mammals, is more activated than in waking life. Also known as the limbic system, the middle brain controls emotional responses and cravings. One organ in the brain is especially active: the amygdala, a walnut-sized mass that philosopher Rene Descartes once thought was the seat of the soul. Today, the amygdala is better called the seat of fear, due to its role in maintaining fight-or-flight responses.
> 
> *Higher Brain Makes Sense of it All*
> Why don't we realize when dreaming that monsters, ghosts and goblins are not real? In 2002, co-author Allen Braun of the National Institutes of Health published positron emission tomography, or PET, data from the brain scans of dreaming patients clearly showing how the higher brain is largely offline during dreaming sleep. Specifically, the prefrontal cortex that generates language, logic and critical thinking is taking an electrochemical nap while we run away from our nightmare goblins. However, some critical thinking still occurs in dreams, evidenced by the way we create new outcomes in dreams by trying to "work around" the weird plot changes and bizarre visual imagery.
> 
> An exception to the lack of executive functioning in REM sleep may be lucid dreaming, which is when the dreamer knows he is dreaming. Validated in the laboratory by Stanford psychophysiologist Stephen LaBerge, lucid dreaming is marked by conscious choices, active thinking and logical reasoning in the dream. This claim is strengthened by researcher Ursula Voss, who along with her colleagues from the Neurological Laboratory in Frankfurt, Germany, revealed that the brain has heightened activity in the frontal and frontolateral areas during these "self-aware" dreams.



 




> Quick question. What exactly does OP mean by "Vibrations"? ...I don't think I ever felt my whole body vibrate before. 
> 
> Also, how long does it take for you guys to feel these vibrations? Do they happen shortly after you begin your WILD attempt or do they take longer?



By "vibrations" I mean...well...vibrations! It would be silly to use another word to describe it. Imagine sitting in one of those vibrating massage chairs. It is not a subtle physical sensation (though at times you can experience them more or less intensely), so you really can't miss it when it happens. 

It depends on where I am in my REM cycle. At times I may wake up in the middle of the night, and then as I am falling right back asleep I will feel those vibrations almost immediately. But if I try a WILD from a full waking state, like during a daytime nap, then it might take me 15-30 minutes or sometimes even much longer to get to the vibrational state...something I no longer have the patience for actually. So really it just depends.





> It seems the time is different for everyone. For me, they occur very quickly, usually before five minutes from closing my eyes. Many people here say it connects with sleep paralysis, which would mean that vibrations occur considerably later.



Well, where at in the sleep cycle are you when you get the vibrations? Bedtime? Middle of the night? WBTB? So, just to be clear...you are not in or entering sleep paralysis when you get vibrations? Are we talking about the same vibrations?

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## GMoney

This is awesome!  Great find, Aquanina!

I know everyone has asked this, but I just want to be sure:  these vibrations are the tingly feeling you get when you don't move your body for a little bit, right?  Laying perfectly still will induce these vibrations after about a minute or so, starting in the feet?  You just think about your brain once the vibrations start?

If so, this is incredible.  You've just cut all the hard parts out of WILDing and the hours and hours I could never get through.  This technique should be pretty quick - instant lucids in about one or two minutes after lying down?  This might be a huge breakthrough and might make WILDing obsolete altogether.  I'm definitely going to try this as soon as possible.

(Of course, I could be reading it wrong and it could be some really complicated technique that take hours to practice and perfect.   :Sad: )

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## nina

> I know everyone has asked this, but I just want to be sure:  these vibrations are the tingly feeling you get when you don't move your body for a little bit, right?  Laying perfectly still will induce these vibrations after about a minute or so, starting in the feet?  You just think about your brain once the vibrations start?



Sorry to burst your bubble...but no...the vibrations being discussed here are the intense full body vibrations felt when entering sleep paralysis, or when coming out of sleep paralysis just waking from a dream. 

The tingly feeling you are referring to I believe is just a sense of your body going numb. That is not sleep paralysis. You would still be able to move your body during that time. The vibrations only occur when entering or exiting SP/REM atonia, when you cannot move your physical body.

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## GMoney

Darn, okay.   ::undecided::   Thanks anyways.

I've never even gotten to that stage then; I've lain (lied?  layed?) there for hours without feeling that, but I guess that's a different topic altogether then.  This isn't really going ot help me since I can't even get to that part, but it sounds like it's going to make things easier for the LDers who already have it easy.   :smiley:   Good luck to everyone using the technique and I hope this makes it easier for you.

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## tommo

For everyone who doesn't experience vibrations....

I never got them either really until I tried this.

Hoever I have always got this feeling of sinking or rising.  I'm assuming almost everybody gets this if they are able WILD at all.  Sometimes this sinking feeling will change to a rising feeling.  Vibrations are just this sinking/rising feeling switching (can't think of the proper word, sorry I'm drunk) really quickly.

If you can feel this sinking and rising feeling, just intensify it.  It's hard to explain how to intensify it, but you shouldn't have to think about it.  Just focus on that sensation and feel it getting faster rising, falling, rising, falling etc. and faster and faster and then direct it to your head where Aquanina said.

Good luck!

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## cuckoo

> Well, where at in the sleep cycle are you when you get the vibrations? Bedtime? Middle of the night? WBTB? So, just to be clear...you are not in or entering sleep paralysis when you get vibrations? Are we talking about the same vibrations?



I usually get them very quickly even take an afternoon nap. Answering your question - I'm before SP, and not yet in the REM. It's even before hypnagogic images/sounds appear. They also occur when I'm in the SP, and it's possible that they are the strongest then, but they start much earlier. When I do phantom wiggling they can even appear when I just sit, and close my eyes - of course they're not that strong then. Often when I go to bed after a meal I get the vibrations immediately. In general, I get them very early and they get stronger over time, possibly at a peak when SP starts. 

I'm sure we're talking about the same vibrations. It's just the way I am.

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## tommo

I get the same thing cuckoo.  Before HI usually and definitely before SP.

Except for that I didn't realise they were vibrations until I tried Aquanina's technique.

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## nina

Ok now I don't think we are talking about the same vibrations. Not at all. Confusing.

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## tommo

Yes.... hmmmm.   How do yours differ from really fast rising and falling?

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## Jay12341235

I tried moving the vibrations I got from just laying down before pre-sleep without results. I'm wondering if we're talking about the same vibrations as well! I think you have to be in sleep paralysis for this to work. If that's the case, then I can't see much use for this technique as you should be able to quickly transition from full on sp to lucid dream quite easily as it is

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## nina

> Yes.... hmmmm.   How do yours differ from really fast rising and falling?



Well for me the vibrations are exactly that, vibrations. Imagine swallowing a vibrator on high intensity. Ok, weird visual, I know, and in that case the vibrations would be centered around the stomach/solar plexus. But of course, a vibration is just a wave oscillation...and a wave has peaks and troughs (rises and falls). So perhaps if a vibration were slowed down to an extent where you could actually feel the individual periods...hmm...no...that doesn't make sense. Have you ever felt vibrations like I am describing? Or is it always just a rising/falling sensation for you? Does this occur for you during sleep paralysis or before?





> I think you have to be in sleep paralysis for this to work. If that's the case, then I can't see much use for this technique as you should be able to quickly transition from full on sp to lucid dream quite easily as it is



I'm quite certain that for me at least, I have to be entering, exiting, or in sleep paralysis/rem atonia during the vibrational state and in order to manipulate the vibrations. Perhaps you have never gotten stuck in the vibrational state before, or else you would be able to see the use in this technique. But I know that a lot of people do get stuck there, or in HI, and it can become frustrating waiting for the dream to start.

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## GMoney

I finally experienced the vibrations, I think.  I woke up from a dream and kept my eyes closed and didn't move, trying for a DEILD.  I was vibrating like crazy, but it's possible that it was caused because I was sleeping on my arm and my arm was vibrating from sleeping on it, rather than actually being in SP.   :smiley: 

I tried moving the vibrations, but couldn't.  Thinking about my brain didn't change anything.  After maybe 15 minutes I decided to test if I was in SP by trying to move.  I tried to pull my arm out, and sure enough I did.   :Sad:   I guess I'll just have to try again.  I probably didn't reach the vibrations you were talking about, although in theory that should've been it since it was a DEILD process.

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## nina

Yeah, doesn't sound like you were in SP. Seems like you just had tingles/pins and needles from your arm. Which is probably what woke you from the dream in the first place.  :tongue2: 

For DEILD to work...you usually have to wake up into SP.

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## GMoney

I  was afraid that was the case.   ::D:

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## Sam1r

> If Aquanina's technique can be reproduced by others then it won't be necessary for you to be in SP for this to work



What do you mean you dont have to be in SP? O.o

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## Ayanizz

I had my first WILD today, and paired with that, also the first time experiencing these vibrations... And let me tell you, they're awesome  ::D:  For the people wondering if they're having the same vibrations as some other people here: Imagine sitting in one of those full-body massage chairs on pretty high intensity, it's comparable to that. To me it felt like it washed over me like a wave, first I was all "whoa what is this!" but if you stay calm and just let it happen it's quite relaxing actually  ::D: 

Anyway, I had noticed that it was indeed possible to focus on a part of my body and "move" the most intense vibration area over there, but I only read this thread just now so next time I'm able to get to the vibrations I'll try this out, and comment back :smiley:

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## nina

^Awesome. Congrats on your WILD! Those are definitely the vibrations of which I speak.

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## Ayanizz

Thanks!

I would also like to give a pointer for those who can't get to the vibration stage: ninja's 99 breaths guide (http://www.dreamviews.com/f41/99-bre...ng-mind-46367/) may do the trick, I got there that way. If you do it correctly you may feel your body getting engulfed in warmth, together with a buzzing feeling. If you then focus on this buzzing feeling (did this by accident because it was quite interesting ::D: ) it gets stronger and results in the vibrations.

Ofcourse, what helped for me will not necessarily help for others, but it's my 2 cents.. Looking forward to doing it again!

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## Ayanizz

Sorry for the double post but I have an update AND a question for Aquanina (or anyone else knowing what they're talking about :wink2: )

I seemed to be unable to replicate the feeling last night since I kept falling asleep too fast without being able to be focussed. It's weird because I'm trying to focus (using a multitude of techniques), but after a few minutes I just black out...

Anyway, my question: These vibrations, are they sleep paralysis, or just part of it? Or something you feel when entering it? Because, if they ARE sleep paralysis, I'm hooked  ::D:  I read all these things about people going through some pretty scary stuff, but if the vibrations are what I'm going to get all the time, sign me up:p

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## Jay12341235

> Sorry for the double post but I have an update AND a question for Aquanina (or anyone else knowing what they're talking about)
> 
> I seemed to be unable to replicate the feeling last night since I kept falling asleep too fast without being able to be focussed. It's weird because I'm trying to focus (using a multitude of techniques), but after a few minutes I just black out...
> 
> Anyway, my question: These vibrations, are they sleep paralysis, or just part of it? Or something you feel when entering it? Because, if they ARE sleep paralysis, I'm hooked  I read all these things about people going through some pretty scary stuff, but if the vibrations are what I'm going to get all the time, sign me up:p



It's easy to tell if it's sleep paralysis. You should be paralyzed if you're in it. You shouldn't be able to go "I was in SP but I moved and broke it" because half of this site thinks that SP is a numb or tingly feeling, not *paralysis*

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## Ayanizz

> It's easy to tell if it's sleep paralysis. You should be paralyzed if you're in it. You shouldn't be able to go "I was in SP but I moved and broke it" because half of this site thinks that SP is a numb or tingly feeling, not *paralysis*



1. I don't call the feeling like I just swallowed a whole bag of vibrators a "numb" or "tingly" feeling:p
2. I didn't have time to check if I could move or not for 2 reasons, it was too awesome and I thought that even trying to move would make it go away, so I just sunk deeper in it. This then caused me to have a lucid.
3. Not to crack you down or anything, but your post was not an answer to my question at all :smiley:  I ask it because I'm unable to reproduce the vibrations just like that(because of falling asleep too fast), but I wish to know if they are part of my sleep paralysis, contrary to scary stuff and people shouting/bashing on walls or doors.

That's all.
If I could reproduce the feeling just like that, to test if it was sleep paralysis or not, I wouldn't be asking the question in the first place right? :smiley:

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## Jay12341235

> 1. I don't call the feeling like I just swallowed a whole bag of vibrators a "numb" or "tingly" feeling:p
> 2. I didn't have time to check if I could move or not for 2 reasons, it was too awesome and I thought that even trying to move would make it go away, so I just sunk deeper in it. This then caused me to have a lucid.
> 3. Not to crack you down or anything, but your post was not an answer to my question at all I ask it because I'm unable to reproduce the vibrations just like that(because of falling asleep too fast), but I wish to know if they are part of my sleep paralysis, contrary to scary stuff and people shouting/bashing on walls or doors.
> 
> That's all.
> If I could reproduce the feeling just like that, to test if it was sleep paralysis or not, I wouldn't be asking the question in the first place right?



My statement about half the forum wasn't directed at you. I made it sound like it was on accident!

Most people experience a heavy feeling, obviously a feeling of paralysis, and experience both audio and visual hallucinations. Again, the most important part is paralysis, but like you said, you didn't check.

To say it's sleep paralysis would be a guess, but it sounds like you were at least close.

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## nina

> I seemed to be unable to replicate the feeling last night since I kept falling asleep too fast without being able to be focussed. It's weird because I'm trying to focus (using a multitude of techniques), but after a few minutes I just black out...
> 
> Anyway, my question: These vibrations, are they sleep paralysis, or just part of it? Or something you feel when entering it? Because, if they ARE sleep paralysis, I'm hooked  I read all these things about people going through some pretty scary stuff, but if the vibrations are what I'm going to get all the time, sign me up:p



First...when were you attempting to WILD?

From my own experiences, I'd say that the vibrations are not equivalent to Sleep Paralysis...but seem to be a physical sensation that often occurs at the same time as SP or perhaps as a consequence of SP, while the body and mind prepare to enter or exit the dream state. However the vibrations are not always present during SP, and just because you are experiencing SP that does not mean you will necessarily be experiencing the vibrations as well.

Sleep Paralysis can be very frightening, even for those with a lot of experience with it. When your mind wakes up from a dream before your body, then you wake up into a completely paralyzed state which may persist for several seconds or minutes. This state involves conscious awareness of total body paralysis, often accompanied by pressure on the chest or feeling as though you have difficulty breathing. What's more is that this state is susceptible to hypnopompic hallucinations, so many people report seeing shadow beings or other frightening entities in their bedroom, sitting on their chest, or restraining them in some manner. A lot of people panic and their heart rate increases dramatically, leading to a pounding sensation inside the head often felt by the ears, as the blood pumps through your system. This often turns into an auditory hallucination of loud and violent noises and physical pressure or pain in the head. It usually only lasts a few seconds, but when you are in that state of mind sometimes it feels much longer. Eventually your body gets wise to the fact that you are awake and you snap out of it. But it can be a bit of a traumatic experience the first few times, especially if you have no idea what SP even is. 

I'm not telling you any of this to frighten you, but merely so that you are aware. I think that knowledge is power...and if you enter into a bad SP experience knowing that...although it feels as though you are suffocating you're actually getting plenty of oxygen, the shadows and weird noises are merely hallucinations and cannot harm you, and the loud pounding in your ears is just your own heart beat...then perhaps you will be able to remain calm and wait for the paralysis to subside...or even attempt to use it as a means to enter a new lucid dream. 

The above description of course is typically only for the sort of SP that you unexpectedly wake up into after a REM period. The sort of SP that you experience during a WILD attempt is usually much less frightening than waking up into SP in the middle of the night.

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## Ayanizz

> My statement about half the forum wasn't directed at you. I made it sound like it was on accident!
> 
> Most people experience a heavy feeling, obviously a feeling of paralysis, and experience both audio and visual hallucinations. Again, the most important part is paralysis, but like you said, you didn't check.
> 
> To say it's sleep paralysis would be a guess, but it sounds like you were at least close.



No problem ::D:  I've been here for little over a month and I've seen how it goes around here in that time, people asking the same ignorant questions over and over because they've apparently never heard of a search function or anything:p
I did have something weird right before the vibrations started though, I heard songs. Generic radiostuff (which is strange considering I never listen to radio), but as I tried to focus on these songs it turned out to be gibberish...





> First...when were you attempting to WILD?
> 
> From my own experiences, I'd say that the vibrations are not equivalent to Sleep Paralysis...but seem to be a physical sensation that often occurs at the same time as SP or perhaps as a consequence of SP, while the body and mind prepare to enter or exit the dream state. However the vibrations are not always present during SP, and just because you are experiencing SP that does not mean you will necessarily be experiencing the vibrations as well.



By drinking alot of water before I went to bed I found out that there's a cycle ending at about 5AM. So that's when I try to WILD when doing it during the night. The problem is that even though I've just been up to go to the bathroom, using that time to prepare myself mentally, I can start off any technique and just black out into sleep a couple minutes into it:p
Which is annoying. 
Staying up longer isn't really an option too as I've got a pretty busy life going on at the moment, and it seems that staying up longer will do just the opposite, namely keeping me awake for too long. So there's this balance I need to find, and then it'll work out just fine ::D: 
Didn't expect this to be easy anyway, so hey, I got plenty of patience :smiley: 

Thank you both for the answers!

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## GMoney

By the way, nice job following up on really old ideas!   ::D:   Six years later and you've finally mastered it!

http://www.dreamviews.com/f13/re-cre...sible-ld-7201/

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## whiterain

for those who have experience of sp, id like to ask you something. can you be in sp, completely paralysed in your physical body, yet also aware of your dream body while it moves around in a dream? almost as if you are a puppet in the dream because you are trying to focus on your physical body when you should just let go and explore the dream?..

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## nina

> By the way, nice job following up on really old ideas!    Six years later and you've finally mastered it!
> 
> http://www.dreamviews.com/f13/re-cre...sible-ld-7201/



Way to dig up the past lol. I haven't mastered anything.

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## youngjedi

So yesterday i got to the vibrational state but did not enter a LD, instead i layed there for what seemed like 5 to 10 minutes. The vibration in my head built up to the point where it was too much, i could hear and feel what seemed like a water bublling sound in my brain ( like a sack of water about to burst) and i kinda got scared as i have never felt the vibration that stong so at that point i opened my eyes. That does prove however that i was not in SP.  Any idea if that is normal? and also tips on what i should do to control or calm the vibrations down? Thanks!

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## nina

> So yesterday i got to the vibrational state but did not enter a LD, instead i layed there for what seemed like 5 to 10 minutes. The vibration in my head built up to the point where it was too much, i could hear and feel what seemed like a water bublling sound in my brain ( like a sack of water about to burst) and i kinda got scared as i have never felt the vibration that stong so at that point i opened my eyes. That does prove however that i was not in SP.  Any idea if that is normal? and also tips on what i should do to control or calm the vibrations down? Thanks!



Actually it doesn't prove anything. You can move your eyes (hence the term REM = rapid eye movement) and open your eyelids in sleep paralysis. I have done it many times in fact. So it is likely that you were indeed in SP. Sometimes the vibrational state correlates with certain aspects of SP and HI to create hallucinations, or, as I think you were experiencing, just a really strong awareness of normal physiological occurrences in the body. I notice that in that transitional state, I will often get a pounding in my head, and I have noticed that it correlates with the blood pumping through my head, especially past the ears. Your awareness is internalized during SP, so normal body functions which typically pass beyond your notice suddenly present themselves in very odd ways. But what you experience could also have to do with a blockage in one of your chakras, if you want to look at it metaphysically. I've experienced a similar "exploding head" sort of scenario in regards to the vibrational state when I wake up into SP in the middle of the night. It's not so much the vibrations that I notice...but the fact that my head is throbbing like crazy and feels like it's going to explode. I have yet to figure out what this "exploding head" shit is about, but it is very disturbing when it occurs, and I'd like to know what causes it. It's one of those things that scientists need to spend more time investigating imo. I have been able to turn these episodes into lucid dreams on a few occasions, but usually when it occurs I'm lucky just to wake up and make it stop.

Exploding head syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## youngjedi

> Actually it doesn't prove anything. You can move your eyes (hence the term REM = rapid eye movement) and open your eyelids in sleep paralysis. I have done it many times in fact. So it is likely that you were indeed in SP. Sometimes the vibrational state correlates with certain aspects of SP and HI to create hallucinations, or, as I think you were experiencing, just a really strong awareness of normal physiological occurrences in the body. I notice that in that transitional state, I will often get a pounding in my head, and I have noticed that it correlates with the blood pumping through my head, especially past the ears. Your awareness is internalized during SP, so normal body functions which typically pass beyond your notice suddenly present themselves in very odd ways. But what you experience could also have to do with a blockage in one of your chakras, if you want to look at it metaphysically. I've experienced a similar "exploding head" sort of scenario in regards to the vibrational state when I wake up into SP in the middle of the night. It's not so much the vibrations that I notice...but the fact that my head is throbbing like crazy and feels like it's going to explode. I have yet to figure out what this "exploding head" shit is about, but it is very disturbing when it occurs, and I'd like to know what causes it. It's one of those things that scientists need to spend more time investigating imo. I have been able to turn these episodes into lucid dreams on a few occasions, but usually when it occurs I'm lucky just to wake up and make it stop.
> 
> Exploding head syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



My bad, I meant i was able to open them and move my body right away.  All 4 of my LD's started from this state but this time it was very different. I believe that you are right though, it is due to a blockage i have and need to resolve. Thanks!

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## tommo

> Well for me the vibrations are exactly that, vibrations. Imagine swallowing a vibrator on high intensity. Ok, weird visual, I know, and in that case the vibrations would be centered around the stomach/solar plexus. But of course, a vibration is just a wave oscillation...and a wave has peaks and troughs (rises and falls). So perhaps if a vibration were slowed down to an extent where you could actually feel the individual periods...hmm...no...that doesn't make sense. Have you ever felt vibrations like I am describing? Or is it always just a rising/falling sensation for you? Does this occur for you during sleep paralysis or before?



HAHAHAHA loved the vibrator swallowing bit.
Well, I experience these before SP, but I also just read your most recent post and
V V V V





> Sometimes the vibrational state correlates with certain aspects of SP and HI to create hallucinations, or, as I think you were experiencing, just a really strong awareness of normal physiological occurrences in the body. I notice that in that transitional state, I will often get a pounding in my head, and I have noticed that it correlates with the blood pumping through my head, especially past the ears. Your awareness is internalized during SP, so normal body functions which typically pass beyond your notice suddenly present themselves in very odd ways. But what you experience could also have to do with a blockage in one of your chakras, if you want to look at it metaphysically. I've experienced a similar "exploding head" sort of scenario in regards to the vibrational state when I wake up into SP in the middle of the night. It's not so much the vibrations that I notice...but the fact that my head is throbbing like crazy and feels like it's going to explode. I have yet to figure out what this "exploding head" shit is about, but it is very disturbing when it occurs, and I'd like to know what causes it. It's one of those things that scientists need to spend more time investigating imo. I have been able to turn these episodes into lucid dreams on a few occasions, but usually when it occurs I'm lucky just to wake up and make it stop.
> 
> Exploding head syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I get that too!  Definitely._  Before_ SP.
So wtf? lol

I'm guessing the vibrations might be a prelude, if you will, to the proper vibrations and the exploding head thing maybe occurs just before SP and jolts me out of it?  Or maybe I'm just f'ing weird and experience SP symptoms before SP? I dunno.

I just had a thought though, brought about by your explanation of noticing internal body processes.  Maybe the sound is just the sound you get in your ears when you swallow.  But it's just multiplied by a thousand.  And sometimes distorted due to almost being in the dream state.

Like sometimes I hear what sounds like an insanely loud pulsing laser or something (like on movies except way louder).  Sometimes it's more like an....explosion sort of, if I remember correctly, but not really the same.  But if you can use your imagination, it's similar to that sound you get when you swallow.  Same length, lots of "punch" if you know what I mean....  Just a thought but I think it's possible.

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## nina

Ok so this method worked for me again last night. I was stuck in the vibrational state with the head pounding thing going on. Right away I could sense the slow deep delta vibrations reverberating throughout my entire brain. So I merely focused my attention as though I were trying to stare out through the top of my forehead. Right away that same place...I'm assuming in the prefrontal cortex...starting buzzing away and vibrating extremely fast. Much faster than the rest of my brain was vibrating. In a matter of seconds, the faster vibration took over and I was inside a lucid dream. I'm starting to feel pretty confident that this is a very real physiological effect that occurs naturally, and becoming aware of it can help to more quickly enter the dream state.

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## youngjedi

> Ok so this method worked for me again last night. I was stuck in the vibrational state with the head pounding thing going on. Right away I could sense the slow deep delta vibrations reverberating throughout my entire brain. So I merely focused my attention as though I were trying to stare out through the top of my forehead. Right away that same place...I'm assuming in the prefrontal cortex...starting buzzing away and vibrating extremely fast. Much faster than the rest of my brain was vibrating. In a matter of seconds, the faster vibration took over and I was inside a lucid dream. I'm starting to feel pretty confident that this is a very real physiological effect that occurs naturally, and becoming aware of it can help to more quickly enter the dream state.



That is step by step what works best for me to enter a WILD. Great explanation!

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## Screems

I have a VERY similar experience, although mine happens when I am about to WILD.
Just this night, I woke up at 6 and felt extremely tired. I turned on my side and focused on the same part of my brain, and suddenly I was plunged into SP.
It came with the feeling of the front of my head being "pulled" into nothing. Then the vibrations, the sounds, and eventually the dream.

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## rynkrt3

I'm very confused.  I have been in SP many times, but i have yet to feel these vibrations.

What's up?

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## nina

Maybe not everyone gets them?  ::whyme::

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## rynkrt3

> Maybe not everyone gets them?



 Sadly, you may be right.

Getting into SP isn't much of a problem for me anymore, I just can't figure out how to transition >.<

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## Mzzkc

Worked for me last night during one of my three WILDs (the only I tried it on). The vibrations hit and I redirected them to the spot in the brain I was messing with before; the results were immediate and impressive.

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## rynkrt3

> Worked for me last night during one of my three WILDs (the only I tried it on). The vibrations hit and I redirected them to the spot in the brain I was messing with before; the results were immediate and impressive.



Mzzkc, could you please explain to me when these vibration occur? 

-Thanks.

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## Mzzkc

I would guestimate around the same time REM atonia kicks in. Maybe a little before then, but it's hard to tell.

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## rynkrt3

> I would guestimate around the same time REM atonia kicks in. Maybe a little before then, but it's hard to tell.



I'm not to familiar with REM atonia, when does that occur?
Sorry to ask all of these questions, I just really want to find a way to have WILD's.

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## Mzzkc

Right at the start of REM, near the end of your second instance of N1 sleep for that phase.

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## Tripoli

Ok , now I'm still a beginner so does this method require a pre sleep before inducing. Because I was trying 30 minutes ago and first the vibrations started in my hands and feet then worked up to my to my waist and my elbows.h Then they stopped moving. I also felt a very intense vibration near my penis area. I think I also felt a very light vibration in my head and I tried to move it upwards and I think it worked but It didn't induce a ld and I didn't hear any "thumping" or "buzzing".
Am I not using the right technique?

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## Tripoli

> Ok , now I'm still a beginner so does this method require a pre sleep before inducing. Because I was trying 30 minutes ago and first the vibrations started in my hands and feet then worked up to my to my waist and my elbows.h Then they stopped moving. I also felt a very intense vibration near my penis area. I think I also felt a very light vibration in my head and I tried to move it upwards and I think it worked but It didn't induce a ld and I didn't hear any "thumping" or "buzzing".
> Am I not using the right technique?



Also I don't think I was in SP because I have never experienced it and I was still able to move.

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## nina

You were feeling tingles from your body going numb. Those are NOT the vibrations.  :tongue2:  It would seem that someone has been giving out misinformation because a lot of people seem to think that these tingles are synonymous with vibrations. Did you read about vibrations in a tutorial here? If so, can you link me to that tutorial?

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## DZT

OK. This is a somewhat awkward place to introduce myself, but I've been been experiencing these "vibrations" you are all referring to (and they most certainly seem to be _the_ vibrations) several times a week, if not on a nightly basis, for quite some time now... mostly after waking at certain points throughout the night or in the early morning. Needless to say, the sensation was a little disconcerting at first, but I've been trying to do some research and get a handle on what they are and why they have been happening ever since. It seems I've finally come to the right place. 

Anyway - now that _how_ I happened across these forums has been clarified (LOL), I guess I'm looking for some advice on where to go from here. I'm not sure I've ever become completely lucid in a dream (but am obviously interested in the concept) although I have had some vivid ones as of late, and the vibrations just randomly started up about a year ago and have continued on and off at various intensities and frequency since. In the past couple days I've also been familiarizing myself with the site (albeit not new to vB or forums) and reading through a few threads as time allows, yet keep finding myself coming back to this one as it seems to contain the best overall description of what I've been experiencing. I even attempted just this morning to "redirect" my vibrations to the localized area indicated by Aquanina, and while I feel I had at least some success in doing so (and further believe I was able to tweak their "frequency" to some extent once they reached their destination), I honestly wasn't quite sure if I was in SP or not as it felt like if I had consciously willed myself to move I would have been able to. Either way, I was even less sure of where to go from there as it was the first time I'd ever felt in "control" of them whatsoever (which was admittedly a good feeling in itself), and the last thing I recall was consciously thinking about attempting to remain "alert" through the transition point of falling back to sleep, but I guess it simply didn't happen this time around.

So does anyone have any "beginner" (although at this point, I certainly feel I'm closer than some here... be that by will or simply circumstance) advice to offer? Any specific tips or insight as to how to progress to the next step to try would be _greatly_ appreciated.

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## nina

DZT...Hi! I'm glad you joined and that the thread has been of some help so far. I am just off to bed though and will definitely write a proper response in the morning. Just wanted to welcome you to the forum real quick.  :smiley:

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## nina

> OK. This is a somewhat awkward place to introduce myself, but I've been been experiencing these "vibrations" you are all referring to (and they most certainly seem to be _the_ vibrations) several times a week, if not on a nightly basis, for quite some time now... mostly after waking at certain points throughout the night or in the early morning. Needless to say, the sensation was a little disconcerting at first, but I've been trying to do some research and get a handle on what they are and why they have been happening ever since. It seems I've finally come to the right place.



It is most certainly disconcerting when you first experience the vibrations. I remember the first time I experienced them during a WILD attempt. I had read on the forums about the vibrational state, but I was certainly not prepared for the intensity, and was completely astonished that my entire body could be overcome with such a strong sense of unmistakable vibration. You said that you wake up into these vibrations often, do you also wake up into sleep paralysis much? Where you wake from a dream and are completely paralyzed for awhile. I only ask because I'm interested to find out if you are one of those chronic SP sufferers. But you may be the first person I've ever spoken to who has experienced the vibrational state, and especially so often, without ever having a lucid dream! 





> I guess I'm looking for some advice on where to go from here. I'm not sure I've ever become completely lucid in a dream (but am obviously interested in the concept) although I have had some vivid ones as of late, and the vibrations just randomly started up about a year ago and have continued on and off at various intensities and frequency since....I even attempted just this morning to "redirect" my vibrations to the localized area indicated by Aquanina, and while I feel I had at least some success in doing so (and further believe I was able to tweak their "frequency" to some extent once they reached their destination), I honestly wasn't quite sure if I was in SP or not as it felt like if I had consciously willed myself to move I would have been able to. Either way, I was even less sure of where to go from there as it was the first time I'd ever felt in "control" of them whatsoever (which was admittedly a good feeling in itself), and the last thing I recall was consciously thinking about attempting to remain "alert" through the transition point of falling back to sleep, but I guess it simply didn't happen this time around.



I think that first you need to explore trying to become lucid more. It's possible that since you've been experiencing these vibrations for so long, and never really understood them, you may have trained yourself to try to ignore them and just return to sleep? I mean, what normally happens when you experience them? Do you just tell yourself to make them go away? To go back to sleep? If that is the case, then you can very well train yourself to start working with them, as you have already attempted. But it might take some work before you are actually able to use them to enter a lucid dream. I'm a bit unsure of how to instruct you, because I worry that you're attempting to walk before you can crawl. At the same time I wonder that since you already experience the vibrational state so naturally, it may quite possibly be easier for you to have a lucid dream. But you haven't thus far. Which is rather curious. This is why I think you would benefit from starting simply, with keeping a dream journal, and practicing things like reality checks. At the same time though, you shouldn't stop trying to use the vibrational state to become lucid. You just need to practice HOW to become lucid. How to hold onto that awareness until you arrive in a dream. That is the key point. I'd advise you to read through the newbie section about where to start. You would benefit from reading about both DILD and WILD actually. And DEILD.

Oh and one more thing. The vibrational state happens in SP. It occurs right before the transition into the dream state, and it would be impossible to enter the dream state unless you were in full SP. The mind just would not proceed into the dream if this were not the case.

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## DZT

Thanks for the reply (and warm welcome).  ::wink:: 

And yeah - I agree with you that I'm basically trying to walk before I can crawl, except that I'm not _completely_ unfamiliar with the basics nor the various methods of induction as I did some moderate research into LD, OOBE, and even AP when I first started experiencing the vibrations well over a year ago. I wasn't at the best spot in my life at the time, however, and against my better judgement, allowed my GP to put me on Cymbalta for a while; TERRIBLE stuff (in my case, at least). It did, however, minimize (or all but eliminate) the vibrations while I was on it, so I kind of wrote them off as anxiety related. I have since quit my SNRI regimen, though, and just like clockwork, the vibration episodes have now returned, and while I initially had attached a negative association to them, at this point I've become rather comfortable with the idea and feeling and am looking to possibly embrace them for what they very well may be (instead of just going back to sleep in spite of them, as is usually the case - LOL). Being able to actually control them sounds to be an even better option, though, and perhaps that's why I became intrigued by your concept of redirecting them in the first place.

And just to clarify with further description, when they first started I honestly thought the washing machine was off-balance and causing the entire house, the waterbed I sleep on, and obviously myself to shake (or vibrate) ever so slightly. That was not the case, however, and after continuing to attempt to find other any other external sources that might be responsible, I decided it ultimately felt internal (and quite possibly electrical), leading me to concerns about palpitations, atrial fib, or some other medical issue. Apparently not the case, either.

Now as far as SP is concerned, while I understand the concept, I'm not quite sure if I actually wake up _in_ it or not, or if I'm even in it during the vibrations I'm feeling. I realize that by definition and purpose I should be, but I often wake up to the vibrations and then physically roll onto my side (where the vibrations seem the strongest), briefly pausing them as I do only to have them return stronger once I relax again. Also, as I lie there experiencing them, I feel as if I could consciously will myself to move my physical body if I wanted to, but have not actually made the attempt to do so as far as I know (other than to initially reposition myself). I did, after having successfully redirected the vibes to my frontal lobe the other morning, have a feeling of being pulled "down" mentally (almost as if being pulled into a dream), but am not sure what happened from that point forward as I do not recall dreaming at all. I guess I just fell back asleep without remaining alert through the transition period? Perhaps I should have been focusing on something other than controlling the vibrations at that point? Either way, I also don't seem to have any extended periods of not being able to move after waking, so I wouldn't think I suffer from chronic SP.

Now when I do remember my dreams, my recall seems to be excellent in regards to details and thesort, and most are extremely vivid (especially my WBTB dreams). I have not, however, become lucid to the best of my recollection, and have certainly not been able to control the lucidity if I have. Close to the first maybe... but no cigar as of yet, as I seem to be "stuck" in the vibrational stage at the moment. As such, I guess maybe I'm just looking for recommendations on some of the best (or easiest) processes and/or tutorials to assist in making it through that transitional period while remaining aware... for while I fully intend to work on DILD and DEILD techniques as well, I don't want to pass on an opportunity to WILD if possible since I seem to be currently be closer (and have more potential chances) via that method than any other.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions!

----------


## Ayanizz

I think you might be on to something weird here nina  ::D:  I tried something last night and came up with a strange result.

Conditions: very tired since I'm in the middle of my exams, no pre-sleep.

I went to bed around midnight and needed something to calm down because there was no way I was going to get sleep anytime soon with a hurricane of thoughts running through my mind, so I decided to meditate a bit first. After about 15 minutes I managed to get the inside of my head to shut up. As I was lying there, I decided to focus on the spot in my head. The way I do this is, I try to look at the back of my forehead(with my eyes closed), towards the place this spot is located, and yesterday I paired it with a visualisation of plugging in/switching it on.
With immediate results ::D:  I started hearing a pulsing sound inside of my head, kinda like thetawave sound, and it came together with a feeling of some kind of pressure too. After about 20 seconds I also started to feel mild vibrations (not the numb/tingly feeling you get from lying still too long, but the vibrations discussed in this thread, only calmer) but these didn't really get much stronger. And then about 10 seconds later, hypnagogics. Flashes and colours first, then it seemed the blackness was ripped open and I saw more stuff (amongst which some pyramids, don't ask me why.)

Unfortunately I hadn't really planned for anything like this to happen so I found myself in a really uncomfortable position, and as soon as I moved it all went away. The first few attempts at bringing it back were unsuccesful, after a while I got the pulsing sound back but no vibrations and only mild HI. I don't think it would've gotten me into a lucid... But it sure is something to further look in to :smiley:  I don't know if it has been said in this thread already or not, but does anyone have an idea what exactly might be positioned at that spot in the brain? Because it seems it's actually quite easy to manipulate and it makes for some awesome results...

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## XeL

I made this very same discovery a few months ago. I've been DEILDing a lot easier ever since!

Thanks for posting!

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## MindGames

To those of you who experience these vibrations, do you think it has any relevance to the Vehram Energy System? The system describes vibrations similar to what you guys are talking about.

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## nina

> Now as far as SP is concerned, while I understand the concept, I'm not quite sure if I actually wake up _in_ it or not, or if I'm even in it during the vibrations I'm feeling. I realize that by definition and purpose I should be, but I often wake up to the vibrations and then physically roll onto my side (where the vibrations seem the strongest), briefly pausing them as I do only to have them return stronger once I relax again. Also, as I lie there experiencing them, I feel as if I could consciously will myself to move my physical body if I wanted to, but have not actually made the attempt to do so as far as I know (other than to initially reposition myself). I did, after having successfully redirected the vibes to my frontal lobe the other morning, have a feeling of being pulled "down" mentally (almost as if being pulled into a dream), but am not sure what happened from that point forward as I do not recall dreaming at all. I guess I just fell back asleep without remaining alert through the transition period? Perhaps I should have been focusing on something other than controlling the vibrations at that point? Either way, I also don't seem to have any extended periods of not being able to move after waking, so I wouldn't think I suffer from chronic SP.
> 
> Now when I do remember my dreams, my recall seems to be excellent in regards to details and thesort, and most are extremely vivid (especially my WBTB dreams). I have not, however, become lucid to the best of my recollection, and have certainly not been able to control the lucidity if I have. Close to the first maybe... but no cigar as of yet, as I seem to be "stuck" in the vibrational stage at the moment. As such, I guess maybe I'm just looking for recommendations on some of the best (or easiest) processes and/or tutorials to assist in making it through that transitional period while remaining aware... for while I fully intend to work on DILD and DEILD techniques as well, I don't want to pass on an opportunity to WILD if possible since I seem to be currently be closer (and have more potential chances) via that method than any other.
> 
> Thanks again for the help and suggestions!



Regarding SP...that's good that you don't wake up into it. If you had, you would _certainly_ know. I've been lucid dreaming for over 10 years now and it still freaks me out sometimes when I wake up into SP in the middle of the night. It's surprising that you would be able to physically move during the vibrational state, but I suspect that since they pause when you actually roll over and then start up again...that you are indeed leaving and reentering the vibrational state, and also sleep paralysis. 

When you wake up at a certain point in your REM cycle, you are almost guaranteed to return to the vibrational state immediately. This is a key state in becoming lucid, and what usually always causes my lucidity in the middle of the night. I think this happens when you wake up after a period of NREM (non-REM) and you are scheduled to enter REM. Usually people don't wake up after an NREM period. Usually they wake up after a REM period, which is typically why those dreams are much easier to remember. Point being...that the vibrations happen just before the dream in REM sleep. 

I suspect that it is the vibrations that actually wake you up (as they do me). This is a wonderful natural ability to have, because it means that you have a natural alarm to alert you of when you are going to be entering the dream state! Perhaps some people just naturally experience the vibrations more intensely than others? Are you a relatively light sleeper like me? That could also have a lot to do with it. Usually people will set their alarms to go off at times in the night to attempt to wake just before a REM period, because as I said, most people do not wake from non-REM to REM...but only after REM. By then, their chance of getting lucid (for that REM period) has passed, and they'll have to wait for the next one. Here's an image of the sleep states to give a better description of what I'm talking about. 



Yes, I would highly recommend you try WILD. When you wake up from the vibrations in the night...try to WILD...you're already 90% of the way there! Just DO NOT MOVE after waking. So that you remain in sleep paralysis and then all you need to do is wait through the vibrational state, and the hypnagogic state and then land inside your first lucid dream!  :smiley:  Good luck! And let us know how it goes with the WILD attempt.  :ClouDing around:  






> I went to bed around midnight and needed something to calm down because there was no way I was going to get sleep anytime soon with a hurricane of thoughts running through my mind, so I decided to meditate a bit first. After about 15 minutes I managed to get the inside of my head to shut up. As I was lying there, I decided to focus on the spot in my head. The way I do this is, I try to look at the back of my forehead(with my eyes closed), towards the place this spot is located, and yesterday I paired it with a visualisation of plugging in/switching it on.
> With immediate results I started hearing a pulsing sound inside of my head, kinda like thetawave sound, and it came together with a feeling of some kind of pressure too. After about 20 seconds I also started to feel mild vibrations (not the numb/tingly feeling you get from lying still too long, but the vibrations discussed in this thread, only calmer) but these didn't really get much stronger. And then about 10 seconds later, hypnagogics. Flashes and colours first, then it seemed the blackness was ripped open and I saw more stuff (amongst which some pyramids, don't ask me why.)
> 
> Unfortunately I hadn't really planned for anything like this to happen so I found myself in a really uncomfortable position, and as soon as I moved it all went away. The first few attempts at bringing it back were unsuccesful, after a while I got the pulsing sound back but no vibrations and only mild HI. I don't think it would've gotten me into a lucid... But it sure is something to further look in to I don't know if it has been said in this thread already or not, but does anyone have an idea what exactly might be positioned at that spot in the brain? Because it seems it's actually quite easy to manipulate and it makes for some awesome results...



Please keep us updated on any progress you have!  :smiley:  Yeah I've even been playing around with it even more, just during meditation...and when I do that...I start hallucinating! Like, seeing hypnagogic sort of imagery. It's pretty amazing. As far as I know, it's just the  prefrontal cortex...but it could be several things. Maybe you guys can help me figure it out. This could eventually turn into a really cool research paper and project, possibly even get published. If I were to start a thread in the research forum about vibrations, dreaming, and areas of the brain, would you guys be interested in participating?  :smiley: 






> I made this very same discovery a few months ago. I've been DEILDing a lot easier ever since!
> 
> Thanks for posting!



Awesome.  ::D: 





> To those of you who experience these vibrations, do you think it has any relevance to the Vehram Energy System? The system describes vibrations similar to what you guys are talking about.



Never heard of it, could you give a brief summary of what it's all about?  :smiley:

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## MindGames

The Vehram Energy System is basically this system of energy that some guy discovered, and wrote about it, then sold it in a $10 PDF. It can be used to quickly induce out of body experiences, although I don't know if he's ever used the system to induce the same type of lucid dreams you guys are talking about. I did send him an e-mail to see if he could replicate the results you're describing. If he can, then it's possible that others could learn how to induce the vibrations and induce lucid dreams with that method.

It consists of 6 orbs of energy, which I think are located above, below, in front, behind, and to the left and right of the body. These orbs of energy are accessible from within sleep paralysis, and for some people the orbs expand and cause the energy to envelop the body. If you touch one of the orbs with your astral body (I assume this means if you imagine your arm touching the orb), you're supposed to get a pretty intense shock. Supposedly the orbs are what binds consciousness to the physical and astral bodies. I'm skeptical of out of body experiences but that's how the author describes the system. You can check out the description at vehram.com, and the author participated in open discussion of the system in this thread: The Vehram System is truly brilliant!



If these vibrational energies are the same thing, then we may just have a quick and easy WILD technique on our hands.  :smiley:

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## nina

Oh. Great. So that way, he can try to make even more money from MY technique.  ::roll:: 

Just from what you've described, he sounds a bit...off.

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## MindGames

I think the ideas he presents are far out, but it seems that the people who use it have had fairly good success with it. Why don't you give the system a quick read over? Maybe what you're talking about is similar to what he describes.

Anyway, think of it this way. If they are the same vibrations, then the vibrational state won't be exclusive to only the people who it naturally occurs to.

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## Ayanizz

> Please keep us updated on any progress you have!  Yeah I've even been playing around with it even more, just during meditation...and when I do that...I start hallucinating! Like, seeing hypnagogic sort of imagery. It's pretty amazing. As far as I know, it's just the  prefrontal cortex...but it could be several things. Maybe you guys can help me figure it out. This could eventually turn into a really cool research paper and project, possibly even get published. If I were to start a thread in the research forum about vibrations, dreaming, and areas of the brain, would you guys be interested in participating?



I am planning to look deeper into this and try some more things out. I've been wondering all day what would've happened if I hadn't moved, since I was getting visuals pretty quickly.. But that'll be one of those things to find out. So if you were to start a thread in research, I'd be in!
Can't promise I'll be able to try stuff out every night though, but hey :Cheeky:

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## mcwillis

> Oh. Great. So that way, he can try to make even more money from MY technique. 
> 
> Just from what you've described, he sounds a bit...off.



Vehram is an acronym for the initials of the names of the author and Robert Monroe.  What interested me is the orbs of energy surrounding the physical body and that they could be used to induce a very deep vibration state immediately.  His description rang true for me because it reminds me of the assemblage point talked about in Carlos Casteneda's books that seems strikingly similar to the rear energy ball the author talks about.  I awoke during the night exiting from a DILD and remained motionless.  I twitched my calf muscle to see if I was in sleep paralysis and I wasn't.  I remained motionless and lay there for 30 seconds to calm myself as I was excited to test this theory of an 'external energy array' of energy orbs.  I didn't use the breathing exercise as I have already experimented with that from Michael Raduga's books.  I started to experience a little vibration, then as instructed I imagined a 12 inch diameter sphere of energy about three feet away from my solar plexus area and imagined drawing energy from it into my physical body.  Within 2 seconds I felt an enormous surge of the vibrational state that was very surprising as I have never felt it come on as quickly and as powerfully like that before.  I then focused my attention on the vibrations at the top and front of my forehead, as I have done a few times now, and again nothing happened.  However I did experience an increase in the internal sounds of my head/brain and switched my attention to those and transitioned into a dream.

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## Ayanizz

Update!

Two nights ago and last night I tried the same, though now more intentionally, so I made sure I was in a comfortable position before I started. As before, I cleared my mind as much as possible, I don't think it's possible to focus on much without doing this anyway.
Out of the both tries, the one two nights ago was easily the weirdest. It started of with hearing the pulsing sound inside of my head again, and when I started paying attention to it, I kinda stopped feeling my bed, and I got a warm glowy feeling. Unfortunately my head still felt my pillow so that kinda kept me aware of my surroundings, but the rest of my body felt like it was floating. After that I fell asleep.
Last night I was too tired, so I just tried it shortly, got to the pulses, fell asleep :tongue2: 

But then, this morning something happened, of which I'm sure if I had done an RC I would've had the most vivid lucid ever. My alarm went of at 8:10AM. I decided to put it at 8:20 and mess around with my brain for 10 more minutes. I woke up an hour later after what seems to be the KING of all false awakenings ever ::D:  There's no describing how real it felt, but needless to say, I've never woken up so confused before.

Anyway. Judging on what happened two nights ago I'm starting to think it might be very possible to get lucid from this without pre-sleep, it would just take some time, but pair that with the fact that I find it really hard to stay aware for long while doing this... So it might be possible, but hard.
Doing this after some sleep or in the morning, on the other hand, seems to be a pretty good way to get lucid (or FA's, since I'm too stupid to RC :tongue2: ), but this had been pointed out by this thread on several occasions already..
Unfortunately I have no time to nap during the day, because I would really like to know what would happen if you try this during a nap :tongue2:

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## mcwillis

> It started of with hearing the pulsing sound inside of my head again



I had this once within a minute of going to bed at night.  It was like a siren for me and I went into complete sleep paralysis.  I messed about with it to see how easy I could leave sleep paralysis and I couldn't.  It was full and complete and the only time I have experienced it going to sleep.

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## nina

Ayanizz...that's really interesting. When I wrote about the technique I certainly hadn't intended for it to be tried directly from an awake state to attempt to induce a lucid dream, but merely from the vibrational state, where you are already extremely close to being in a lucid dream. But I love to read about your experimenting with it, and if you are able to use it to somehow induce a dream state without sleep first then that would be pretty awesome! I would think that the same rules would apply as with WILD though, and you would need to get sleep before and wake up at a good point in your REM cycle. There are a lot of possibilities here and a lot of questions that still need answers. For example, why does it work and what is it exactly that we are doing? I've tried researching a bit more on electroencephalograms but they only give you an _average_ reading over a period of about 20-30 minutes. It is also very shallow and cannot detect what is going on deeper in the brain. Personally I think there is a lot more to the brain states than just alpha, beta, theta, delta, gamma, mu...etc. I think that they need to take into account that it is possible for two of these frequencies to be occurring at the same time, one peripheral, and one deeper in the thalamus region of the brain. But it's also a lot more difficult to test for this due to many variables, so for now, there isn't a whole lot to go on. Luckily though, the region of the brain seem to be messing around with is somewhat peripheral (most likely prefrontal cortex), and would probably be detected on an EEG as alpha waves. I really want an EEG for research purposes myself. If anyone knows of a good one that doesn't cost a fortune, let me know.  :smiley:

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## Ayanizz

> Ayanizz...that's really interesting. When I wrote about the technique I certainly hadn't intended for it to be tried directly from an awake state to attempt to induce a lucid dream, but merely from the vibrational state, where you are already extremely close to being in a lucid dream. But I love to read about your experimenting with it, and if you are able to use it to somehow induce a dream state without sleep first then that would be pretty awesome!



I'll keep on experimenting whenever I find the time, we can already assume that it's a straight way (and an easy one) into a lucid dream once you are in the vibrational stage, so I'm trying to find out what else you can do with it ^^
As you have already pointed out you have used this during meditation, and you were able to start up hallucinations, so this region of the brain responds to mental "manipulation" very well and is almost sure to produce at least something. As far as inducing a lucid dream without sleep first goes, it might be hard. What happened the past few times is that, though it works, and it gives imagery pretty much straight away, it also seems to speed up the whole "falling asleep"-process... So if anything, it's already a pretty good way to fall asleep, plus it works relaxing  ::D:  Now if I only could stay aware :tongue2: .





> I really want an EEG for research purposes myself. If anyone knows of a good one that doesn't cost a fortune, let me know.



I'll ask around. I know some people in the medical world who might know, though I think finding EEG-machines that are cheap and available for the general public, + easy to use might be a hard task.

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## mcwillis

I wish it would do this for me  :Sad:

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## Ayanizz

Just asked around for the EEG-machine thingy. Your best bet is to write around to hospitals to see if they have none that they don't use anymore. And even then it will probably cost you enough :smiley:  Buying a new one will almost certainly be too expensive for what you're willing to give out for it...
On a different note, and out of pure curiosity, are you left- or righthanded?  ::D: 

@mcwillis: are you sure you are focussing on the right part of your brain? If you close your eyes and look up (like, looking at the back of your forehead), you're pretty much going in the right direction :smiley:  Visualising switching it on or sending energy to that spot helps.

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## nina

Interesting question...I am very much left handed. Are you as well? I don't know many right handed people that even bother asking such a question since they are quick to assume everyone is right handed, and not surprisingly since most people are. 

I appreciate you asking about the EEG machines. I will also ask some of my professors, I think we actually have a sleep lab at our university, it would be awesome to get in contact with some of the people there. I really want to talk to the more, cognitive neuroscience sort of professionals though. I don't know that anyone else would even have a clue about what we are discussing or what could be the mechanism behind it. 

I think the biggest problem with using this to try and lucid dream from a waking state is that the body will not be in sleep paralysis. I have actually done this before and used it to induce an OBE, but I was never truly immersed inside the OBE...because I never became disconnected from my body. My body was still completely awake, but I had tricked my mind into going to sleep while retaining a small level of consciousness. This didn't just happen naturally, it was with the aid of a dissociative substance where I went into a deep meditative state and tried to induce an OBE. I would have worked if my body had gone into SP. We need to figure out a way to induce SP more quickly.

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## Ayanizz

I am very much left handed as well, yes :smiley:  And proud of it too :tongue2:  It might have something to do with why some people manage to pull off different methods faster than others, who knows...

And yes, reaching SP is the hardest part. I have noticed however that once the pulsing sound starts, and the various things that come with them, I'm much less inclined to move, I don't really feel those (incredibly annoying) tiny random pinpoint itches anymore, and the try two nights ago I even forgot at some times that my body was even there, except for my head (which still felt the pillow).
Hmm, your OBE experience makes me understand why you think two frequencies might actually be at work at the same time...

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## nina

> I am very much left handed as well, yes And proud of it too It might have something to do with why some people manage to pull off different methods faster than others, who knows...



That is an excellent observation, and one that I hadn't even considered. Handedness actually very well _could_ (and likely _would_) play an important role in what we are discussing due to the fact that beta waves (I accidentally said alpha in the above post), which are most evident frontally, and the very same brainwaves that we experience during waking state as well as lucid dreaming...have a higher amplitude on the more dominant side of the brain. This means, that someone who is left handed, and more right brained, would experience higher amplitude beta frequencies in the right hemisphere. This could possibly result in a more natural visual experience from stimulating this area of the brain than would be experienced by more right handed/left brained people. Hopefully I am making sense, if not, I can clarify. 





> Hmm, your OBE experience makes me understand why you think two frequencies might actually be at work at the same time...



Well I guess mostly what I was referring to in the dual brain frequency was merely involving the changeover from one state to the next. It does not happen instantaneously. You are not one moment in alpha and then all of a sudden switch over to theta. You are one moment in alpha...then for whatever reason be it physiological or emotional, etc. your brain wants to switch to another frequency...so very slowly...one neuron at a time begins firing at this different frequency, for example theta. The neural network or area of the brain that these neurons are connected to then all begin firing at this new theta frequency. This happens simultaneously with the original alpha frequency. Eventually enough neural clusters or networks begin firing at the same new theta frequency, and the alpha frequency fades out as this overall changeover to theta occurs. But there was still a period where your brain was firing at both alpha and theta. Or delta and theta. Etc. etc. (and I guess I am probably just over complicating a simple theory known as equilibrium). But I've never heard about equilibrium discussed when pertaining to brainwaves. It's always one or the other, and this is the problem with EEG machines...it merely takes an average of all the different brain frequencies occurring. It doesn't take into account that many different ones are likely occurring at the same time in various areas of the brain and various neuronal clusters.  

So it is my theory that the only times we are truly able to sense these differing brainwave frequencies is during the transition, when the changeover from one to the other takes place. And only because we register it in our brains as a "different" frequency from what we were experiencing before, so our mind can make a comparison and say, hey wait, this is a different frequency than what I was just experiencing. The mind can become acclimated to absolutely anything. Sensation (hot, cold), annoying noises. It just tunes them out after awhile because you get used to it. It's the old metaphor of the frog in boiling water. Put a frog in boiling hot water and it will jump out, but if you put a frog in room temperature water and slowly raise the temperature the frog will remain and be boiled alive. I don't know if this is even a true metaphor, but it goes with what I'm trying to explain. When I am conscious at the lower levels, such as delta as during sleep...the only reason I can feel my brain switching over to something like beta when I enter a lucid dream is because the two frequencies are so incredibly different from one another. It's like hot and cold. The most obvious changeover for me to experience is from the very high amplitude and slow delta frequency (slow wave sleep)...to the very fast low amplitude waves of beta that are characteristic of lucid dreaming. 

So what is my point? lol. 

Basically I think that this technique merely helps the transition to occur faster. Perhaps directing your conscious awareness to the area of the brain where this new frequency beings firing in a small neuronal cluster helps the various neural networks of the brain to switch over to this new frequency more quickly. So it actually becomes a conscious choice to direct your brainwaves into a new frequency. That for me, is the most fascinating aspect, because how often do you get to make a decision about how your brain is actually functioning?

Ok, so now I know I'm rambling lol. But these are just some various theories and ideas that I've been developing and it's nice to discuss them and sort of get them out of my, usually, very overworked mind. Thanks for listening.  :smiley:

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## ultranova

Aquanina I have a question for you. I have noticed that few times you had implied that vibrational state is very close to the point where you transfer to LD. I have had no WILDs but lately I've been trying to induce them and I almost always get to the point where my muscles would start vibrating but I feel that that is nowhere close to having LD or am I wrong? Or it's probably different for all people. I would be happy If that is actually close to LD. Also your theory looks rather interesting and promising, I will definitely try it and post results.

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## Ayanizz

I'm going to make a well-educated guess here and assume you are also having exams right now, and anything is more interesting than the books in front of you? :Cheeky: 

It IS fascinating! And I guess that's why I've been experimenting with it the past few days, and am going to keep doing so. I find it quite interesting how your brain can actually respond to a mental stimulation that you consciously do, and how that can bring about effects the likes of which we are discussing here. The idea that it speeds up transitions makes sense too, as it would explain for example how it speeds up my process of falling asleep, and how it can bring on lucids so rapidly from vibrational state.
I'm trying to figure out how it is possible that I'm actually hearing the wavepulses but I think it'll be damn hard to find a scientific explanation for that... Perhaps consciously focussing on your brain makes you more aware of what is going on there, and people just never notice it because they never have the need to pay attention to it?

It appears you are lightyears ahead on brainknowledge though ::D:  So I'm afraid I haven't got much to add to what you said since it all makes sense.
One thing though, about the changeover from one state to another. Say for example you're at 12hz, and your brain wants to go to 7hz, it was my understanding that it would be gradually slowing down (12 - 11 - 10 - and further downwards). So then there would be no real dual brain frequency right? Or am I seeing this all wrong?

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## nina

> Aquanina I have a question for you. I have noticed that few times you had implied that vibrational state is very close to the point where you transfer to LD. I have had no WILDs but lately I've been trying to induce them and I almost always get to the point where my muscles would start vibrating but I feel that that is nowhere close to having LD or am I wrong?



I would hesitate to say anything is right or wrong because I'm sure that it really is different for everyone, and really I can only take what people say and judge it based on my own experiences (and what I've read)...but I think that what you are experiencing is the typical "tingling" sensation that occurs when you don't move for awhile. When you lay motionless during a WILD attempt after a few minutes your body starts to tingle and feel numb. I've seen some people talk about this as if it were the vibrational state, but in my experience it is actually still pretty far from the vibrational state and sleep paralysis. It's possible though that it all depends on when you attempt to WILD. For example, if I tried WILDing in the middle of the day it would take several minutes to get to the tingly place where my entire body becomes numb, and I would remain in that state for a very long time (30-45+ minutes) until reaching the vibrational state, SP, and immersive HI. But if I woke up in the middle of the night and then tried to WILD I might enter the vibrational state almost immediately, merely due to the fact that my body was scheduled to enter a REM state regardless. With WILDs it is really all about timing.





> I'm going to make a well-educated guess here and assume you are also having exams right now, and anything is more interesting than the books in front of you?



Actually I won't have midterms until next week, but I'm taking several upper level science courses so I spend the majority of my time studying regardless of exams or not. But yes, DV is a wonderfully distracting way to spend study breaks.  ::D: 





> I'm trying to figure out how it is possible that I'm actually hearing the wavepulses but I think it'll be damn hard to find a scientific explanation for that... Perhaps consciously focussing on your brain makes you more aware of what is going on there, and people just never notice it because they never have the need to pay attention to it?



Well here's my theory regarding the ability to sense brainwaves...and I know why you want to say that you are "hearing" them, I agree that it _seems_ as though they are heard...but it is my belief that they are not actually heard but sensed. But basically when we are awake we are typically experiencing beta frequencies, sometimes alpha, and even less theta. Beta frequencies are very fast and of low amplitude...and frequency that I believe is typically too fast and too subtle to sense in our waking lives, especially as we are constantly inundated with external stimuli. Quite simply, we are not trained to tune into such physiological changes within our bodies, and while we are awake we do not realize that our conscious mind is completely and totally projecting itself into the outside world and receiving all this simultaneous external stimuli. We are not aware of our subconscious, for example, operating under the radar and drinking in so much more than our consciousness could begin to comprehend. 

Now, when we transition into dream states and altered consciousness where our mind is disconnected with the body...the conscious mind, in all of its magnificence turns inward and becomes able to perceive extremely subtle physiological phenomena such as changes in brain frequency, due to the fact that it is no longer connected to or receiving stimuli (distractions) from the external environment. What is more...I also theorize that during these states of consciousness we literally become capable of controlling (or even just sensing) certain aspects of our central nervous system and autonomic nervous system that are typically regarded as unconscious neuronal processes which we are incapable of voluntarily controlling. The autonomic nervous system governs such things as heart rate and digestion...things that are always taking place in the background. 

I need to read up more regarding the vestibular and auditory systems, but I theorize that the very loud humming noises that people experience are these amplified neural oscillations...and that the very loud throbbing sounds during SP (commonly dismissed as auditory hallucination) is merely our own heartbeat reverberating and passing by our inner ears (or possibly the pulsing movement of cerebrospinal fluid). The ears are actually fascinating because I have been able to feel the exact moment they stop focusing on the external environment and turn toward the inner environment. I didn't even know that was possible, but I have felt it happening on various occasions during WILDing. And actually in those states the ears function more like an animals ears, and you can literally feel them changing direction like a cat's ears to turn toward the source of a noise. At times I have noticed the profound effect it has on my sense of balance (the vestibular system being responsible for balance and sensations of acceleration) while transitioning into the dream state, and is, I believe, the reason why most people experience certain feelings of falling, rushing forward, spinning in circles, etc. during SP. 


*Spoiler* for _superfluous background info, feel free to skip over_: 



...I first gained interest in such things as a result of regular experimentation with dissociative substances, which gave me almost frightening control over very specific bodily functions that I'm not sure I probably should have been messing around with at the time. For example, I could speed up or slow down my heart rate and body temperature with a single thought. What was interesting to me was how immediately and fully the body would respond. At full waking consciousness if I try to slow my heart rate down it is a process, and it takes a few minutes for my heart to actually begin truly slowing down. But during those times on dissociatives it would quite literally immediately respond to my thoughts and instructions. Just to be sure it wasn't all in my head (though I knew the thermometer wasn't lying, but it is extremely difficult to take an accurate reading of your own pulse) I even had a friend take my pulse and I truly was consciously controlling it. I would give my brain a single command like, "sleep" and within seconds I would start feeling the deep slow high amplitude waves of delta setting in. But I soon began to realize how similar this state of dissociation is to the transitional states as experienced during WILDs...pre and post dream trance-like states of mind. I noticed how, during the vibrational state, I was able to consciously control vibrations, frequencies, and even instruct my heart to slow down if I began to get too excited. And when it comes to it, they basically are the same...it is merely a dissociation from the body, something our minds do every single night when we enter sleep paralysis. 


 





> One thing though, about the changeover from one state to another. Say for example you're at 12hz, and your brain wants to go to 7hz, it was my understanding that it would be gradually slowing down (12 - 11 - 10 - and further downwards). So then there would be no real dual brain frequency right? Or am I seeing this all wrong?



That's actually a great question. When a mind oscillating at 12hz wants to switch over to 7hz it will not do so in a stair step manner to lower the overall brain frequency contiguously. But instead, the specific neuronal network responsible will begin firing at 7hz, until more and more neural networks pick up the same 7hz frequency. As this happens, the 12hz frequency begins to fire less and less (drops out). It is a take over. And equilibrium is reached as two distinct frequencies coming together...although its not so much equlilbrium, since the 7hz eventually wins out. So if someone had an EEG done on this process then it would probably appear to be a stair step like you mention from 12hz, to 11hz, to 10hz...but that is ONLY because an EEG is an average of all the frequencies taking place over a span of time. There are more precise tests I think they can use now that give the specific amount of each neuronal network in the brain that is oscillating at different frequencies. It creates a nice gradation pattern. 

I realize that it is strange to think of our brain state as operating at these various frequencies at various speeds and amplitudes throughout the day. We like to think of our brain as operating at one synchronous frequency...and then when it wants to change to something else, the whole brain slowly changes to another frequency. But this is not the case. There is SO much noise and ridiculous amounts of chatter going on in our brains at any given time, that our minds are anything but synchronous. And I guess this is why things like meditation are so useful, or any exercise that helps to make the overall brain activity become more synchronized...or in the case of the lucid dream...how to help it to change over to another frequency more easily.

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## nina

> Different global patterns of brain activity are associated with distinct arousal and behavioral states of an animal, but how the brain rapidly switches between different states remains unclear. We here report that repetitive high-frequency burst spiking of a single rat cortical neuron could trigger a switch between the cortical states resembling slow-wave and rapid–eye-movement sleep. This is reflected in the switching of the membrane potential of the stimulated neuron from slow UP/DOWN oscillations to a persistent-UP state or vice versa, with concurrent changes in the temporal pattern of cortical local field potential (LFP) recorded several millimeters away. These results point to the power of single cortical neurons in modulating the behavioral state of an animal.



Even just a SINGLE neuron!! That's cool. 

Source:Burst Spiking of a Single Cortical Neuron Modifies Global Brain State | Science/AAAS

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## Ayanizz

Lol, mammoth post! Thank you for the link, it appears neutrons pack a lot of punch considering how tiny they are  ::D: 

Payed some attention to it last night, and indeed, it's not so much hearing as it is sensing. There is a distinct pulsing pattern though, but it's inside of my head. So I guess, if I throw what you said and what I said together, it's correct that focussing your attention to the inside of your head is going to result in certain senses turning inwards (e.g. the ears). Which is why external noise/moving around will make it go away.
Anyway, nothing much to add about last night, it was pretty much the same as previous nights, though I have noticed that nothing happened while I was lying on my left side, while I had immediate results when I switched to my right side. This can ofcourse be purely coincidental so I'll see if it happens again tonight.

I would really love to try this technique out as a means to WILD some day, because there's only that much you can do without pre-sleep, but my schedule right now doesn't allow for WBTB's or naps, and my brain doesn't allow for lucids or something (stress kills it! And it kills recall too apparently.)

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## ultranova

Okay, last night I had no particular success, but it was a success for me in some way. So here is what happened. I went to bed at about 00:45 AM. I laid down and started doing some visualization ( just practicing ), I wasn't moving ( I wasn't trying WILD or anything ti just happened that I wasn't moving) and  after 2-3 minutes my body started getting numb and I don't remember the rest so I would assume that I fell asleep at 1:00AM at most. Previously I set up my alarm at 6:45. It woke me up in a middle of a dream which I remembered clearly. I went to bathroom got back and tried WILD. But I had no success, I felt very uncomfortable and I couldn't stay still longer than a 2-3 minute. After many position changes I opened my eyes to see what time it is. It was 7:35. I though that today was a lost cause and I should try it tomorrow. But seconds after that I fell asleep. I had a very long and vivid lucid dream triggered by vibration in my dream. Since my original intention was trying to induce lucid dream by trying to transfer from vibrational state directly to LD I think that it is somewhat connected. And another strange thing was that all my previous dreams were induced by doing RC and after it succeeded I knew it was dream but this time after vibrating started I just knew it was dream without previously doing any RC.
Here is my dream if you are interested to see how did it turned out to be lucid: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/ultr...-he-yuk-12193/

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## Mayatara

I only had a "natural" SP experience once, in the middle of the night, followed by an OBE. Then I had many other SPs during a time when I was meditating with Holosync on my headphones. But the experiences were mostly creepy, painful and terrifying so I stopped with the Holosyncing and the SPs stopped to.
I never had SPs again, although I do have WILDs, so I concluded it's really not necessary or forceful to go through SPs to fall asleep lucid. Actually I am glad I don't have to go through it, it is so much more peaceful. I just relax deeply and focus on entering the dream state - it is almost like entering meditative state, but you go directly to dream state. Usually it is very quick and effective to enter a lucid dream this way, once you find the right switch on your brain - basically it's about absolute relaxation of the mind and sharp focus on the objective. I've been trying it at different times of the day and aiming to be able to do it at will, even when not feeling sleepy. I've been experiencing interesting results so far, but I just started, so this might be some temporary luck and later I might stagnate or retrogress.

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## BlueWalls

> Usually it is very quick and effective to enter a lucid dream this way, once you find the right switch on your brain - basically it's about absolute relaxation of the mind and sharp focus on the objective. I've been trying it at different times of the day and aiming to be able to do it at will, even when not feeling sleepy. I've been experiencing interesting results so far, but I just started, so this might be some temporary luck and later I might stagnate or retrogress.



Interesting. How long exactly does it take for you to enter a lucid dream?

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## ultranova

> Once you are able to feel this different vibration, just concentrate on it. The harder you concentrate on this vibration, the faster it vibrates, and the louder the buzzing/humming inside your head. When the vibration becomes so fast that the humming is barely detectable...you are already inside a lucid dream. 
> [/COLOR]



Okay, last night I tried WILD, it failed again this time but I got to point where I got intense vibrations, I couldn't control them but eventually start to feel them in my head. But all of sudden like a wave of something crushed me, it seemed like the frequency of my brain has decreased, my "vision" got very deep like I was falling into something. I felt a huge drop in my vital functions, my breathing became very slow and I felt my heart beating very slowly. I got scared and opened my eyes, got up and drank some water and returned to sleep normally. It's opposite of quoted there because humming in my head got slower not faster...But I have not succeeded in controlling the vibrations.

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## nina

> Anyway, nothing much to add about last night, it was pretty much the same as previous nights, though I have noticed that nothing happened while I was lying on my left side, while I had immediate results when I switched to my right side. This can ofcourse be purely coincidental so I'll see if it happens again tonight.



Regarding sleeping on the right side...this is typically the side I sleep on every single time I lucid dream. I recognized this a few years ago, so sometimes I purposefully roll over onto my right side in the middle of the night to increase my chances at becoming lucid. There's some eastern mysticism about why sleeping on the right results in move vivid or lucid dreams...but my hypothesis is that it has to do with blood flow in the brain and gravity. When sleeping on your right side, gravity would cause blood in the tissues to very slightly move from the left hemisphere to the right. If there is more blood in the right hemisphere, it can function better, and this would increase visuals and dream vividness. Also, sleeping on your right side (as opposed to the left) takes some pressure off your heart, resulting in better blood flow throughout the body. 





> I had a very long and vivid lucid dream triggered by vibration in my dream. Since my original intention was trying to induce lucid dream by trying to transfer from vibrational state directly to LD I think that it is somewhat connected. And another strange thing was that all my previous dreams were induced by doing RC and after it succeeded I knew it was dream but this time after vibrating started I just knew it was dream without previously doing any RC.



That's great! Congrats on the long vivid lucid.  :smiley: 





> I only had a "natural" SP experience once, in the middle of the night, followed by an OBE. Then I had many other SPs during a time when I was meditating with Holosync on my headphones. But the experiences were mostly creepy, painful and terrifying so I stopped with the Holosyncing and the SPs stopped to.
> I never had SPs again, although I do have WILDs, so I concluded it's really not necessary or forceful to go through SPs to fall asleep lucid. Actually I am glad I don't have to go through it, it is so much more peaceful. I just relax deeply and focus on entering the dream state - it is almost like entering meditative state, but you go directly to dream state. Usually it is very quick and effective to enter a lucid dream this way, once you find the right switch on your brain - basically it's about absolute relaxation of the mind and sharp focus on the objective. I've been trying it at different times of the day and aiming to be able to do it at will, even when not feeling sleepy. I've been experiencing interesting results so far, but I just started, so this might be some temporary luck and later I might stagnate or retrogress.



Yep I know exactly what you mean. I used to take naps during the day, and I would just lay down to nap and think of nothing else but going to sleep, no worries about trying to WILD, etc. Since I has napping at the perfect time in my REM cycle, I would just go straight into a lucid dream within about 15 minutes. I would lose consciousness and fall asleep, but because I was sleeping at such a light level, I would immediately regain consciousness during the vibrational state, HI, or when a dream started....so I would _always_ get lucids. Sometimes I'd spend 2 hours just DEILDing over and over again in the afternoon. The reason it worked so well was because I had to get up early and go to class from 8am - 11am. After which I would come back to my dorm room to enjoy marathon lucid naps...and then get up and head to my next class from 2pm - 5pm. Since I'd wake up early, around 7:15, I would have plenty of REM leftover, which I could take advantage of during those mid morning naps. Actually, most people don't realize this, but the best time to nap is within 4 hours of waking up. Your chance to become lucid during a nap lowers drastically past that 4 hour window.





> Okay, last night I tried WILD, it failed again this time but I got to point where I got intense vibrations, I couldn't control them but eventually start to feel them in my head. But all of sudden like a wave of something crushed me, it seemed like the frequency of my brain has decreased, my "vision" got very deep like I was falling into something. I felt a huge drop in my vital functions, my breathing became very slow and I felt my heart beating very slowly. I got scared and opened my eyes, got up and drank some water and returned to sleep normally. It's opposite of quoted there because humming in my head got slower not faster...But I have not succeeded in controlling the vibrations.



Could you explain a little more about the circumstances surrounding the WILD attempt? When did you try it? Did you wake up in the night? Had you had some sleep already?

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## Mayatara

> Interesting. How long exactly does it take for you to enter a lucid dream?



Hard to tell, because I lose notion of time, but it's getting quicker, like a matter of minutes, maybe 10. 
I'm talking about WILDing, not anything new, so I have to be honest and say it doesn't work so well at the beginning of the night as it works later in the night and early in the morning, of course. I managed to do it in the beginning of the night only a couple of times and also did it on some naps (but that's common).  The only point I want to make, is that I believe it can be achieved without going through SP. I am starting to believe that SP is actually an anomaly that, once the "entering the dreams" process is mastered, you no longer need to go through. Basically we experience SP because the body falls asleep before the mind does and we use it to keep lucidity after falling asleep, but once you train the mind to go conscious to dreams immediately, independent of the body state at that time, then SP is gone - it still happens, but then you're already dreaming, so you don't feel it.

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## ultranova

> Could you explain a little more about the circumstances surrounding the WILD attempt? When did you try it? Did you wake up in the night? Had you had some sleep already?



Well, I tried iti at beginning of night. Actually I wasn't even planning to do it, after a half an hour of sleep I woke up and couldn't fall asleep so I decided to try WILD and that's when It happened. After that I woke up in a morning and tried WILD again but I was feeling very uncomfortable and fell asleep.

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## Ayanizz

Haven't been able to do anything lately since I'm at the end of my midterms and the last ones always seem to hit hardest (hooray for studying Japanese and Chinese at the same time -.-), but in a few days I'm free to pursue whatever goal I set down for myself :tongue2:  I have noticed that stress does not only kill the chance for lucid dreaming and good recall (although the second one seems to flash up every few days), but it also does a very good job at killing any ideas or plans you might have for paying attention to what your brain is doing while you're falling asleep.

Oh and Ultranova, attempting WILD's at the beginning of the night is tough stuff :smiley:  While it is possible it usually takes too long, so you're much better off trying it during the day (as in: naps) or after a good couple of hours sleep. If you haven't figured out your dreaming pattern yet, I suggest going to the toilet half an hour before you go to bed, and then drink a whole bunch of water right before you go to bed. You wake up shortly after every REM-period, but as long as there is no need for you to wake up more you will hardly notice this and go back to sleep. With the water trick, your mind will most likely force you to be more awake to take a "toiletbreak", which is how you figure out what time one of your REM-periods ends and, close to morning, another one will start soon.
For example, for me, if I go to bed at midnight I know that I have a perfect time to WILD at about 5:15AM..

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## Reclypso

I couldn't believe that some of these people never felt vibrations when lucid dreaming. But then I remembered that I've never had a DILD or MILD, do you not feel them with those methods?

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## GMoney

> I couldn't believe that some of these people never felt vibrations when lucid dreaming. But then I remembered that I've never had a DILD or MILD, do you not feel them with those methods?



You definitely wouldn't feel the vibrations described in this thread with a DILD, and probably not a MILD, either.  With those methods, you have the lucid during the course of your normal sleep, once you're already dreaming during the night (although you could do a MILD with WBTB).  The vibrations described here are during the transition from waking to sleeping, which you consciously experience during a WILD.  For DILDing, you're asleep during this transition, and your consciousness "wakes up" later on, after the dream has already started.

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## TheForgotten

I tried this technique last night and really liked the smoothness and subtleness of it.  It worked for me but I'm going to try it again tonight (and more nights if it goes well) to fully play with it.  A couple things related to this:

1.  You mention focusing the energy on the frontal lobes.  I was curious to see what that controlled and found a site for anyone else interested that explains what that part of the brain does: Frontal Lobe Function

2.  This is a very simple technique which is why I really like it.  However, this is like advanced math.  For those who don't understand the chakra system or manipulating energy, this technique is difficult.  Just something to take into consideration.

3.  OMG create a name for this technique.  Since there are DILDs, WILDs, and ... others ... go ahead, give it a name... otherwise I'm going to simply refer to it as 'Nina' from now on.  "I Nina'ed last night and blah blah blah' .... do you want that?   :tongue2:   Actually though, Nina is four letters... it would fit right in as an acronoym, haha.

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## Cielo

I know this is just a general WILD question, but it has been bothering me-- How long do you recommend I stay awake after waking up in the early morning before attempting a WILD? 

The first time I tried to do a WILD, I woke up at around 6, stayed awake for a couple minutes just long enough to put on some binaural beats, and then successfully entered sleep paralysis after a little bit (but not a lucid dream). Is this considered a DEILD or a really quick WBTB? Because last night (or this morning, rather), I woke at around 4 and stayed up till 4:45 and COULD NOT enter SP or even fall asleep--I was too awake. Apparently staying up for 45 minutes is too long for me?

Is this just a trial-and-error thing, or is there some general rule I can follow? I really can't afford to be losing 4 hours of sleep right now..

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## Ctharlhie

Not sure if this is necroing, but here goes:
I read this a while ago, and being just a little oneironautling, I had neither the means nor the knowledge to put the technique into practice. However I remained interested in the idea, recently threads have been cropping up that seem to be sending out the same message, independently of each other; (COBRAS Method, this one Nina is aware of) and (3rd eye chakra technique). Also, as Mcwillis has pointed out, Michael Raduga outlines a similar technique in the form of 'brain straining' (never liked that term, sounds painful). 

So whether it's the pineal gland or the dorso-lateral prefrontal cortex being stimulated, there seems to be something going on here. I haven't been successful at WILD yet, but the other night I woke myself at 4:30 a lay on my back, did a few relaxation techniques, and then, intently focused on this mysterious area of the brain. Much to my surprise within seconds there was a pretty heavy onset of pre-sleep paralysis sensations. I felt pins and needles in my limbs that spread, and intensified, to my torso; the swirling phosphenes in my vision grew more vivid, I started to hear a crackling in my right ear and a kind of tinnitus in both ears that grew in volume and pitch; after a while of this I began to fell hot rushes spreading up from my feet to my chest.
However, after some time the feelings passed and I gave up due to tiredness, in retrospect the sensations had probably subsided for a bit to come back stronger later on. I haven't ever got so close to sleep paralysis before.

Excitingly, this technique seems to work with just as much effect at bedtime, which makes me wonder whether it may be able to facilitate WILDing at any time in the day, anywhere? Like in that thread where Nina talked about almost WILDing in traffic  ::lol:: 

So it seems that not only can Nina techniqued be used to transition (among other applications  :wink2: ), it can also be used to quickly bring on hypnagogic/sleep paralysis states.

Has anyone had any further success or findings? I'd appreciate feedback  :smiley: 

EDIT: It seems that Ayanizz has had similar results, that's quite exciting  ::D:

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## MarineRecon

This sounds like a great way to have a WILD. In fact, just last night I was experiencing intense vibrations. I got too tired to focus and I opened my eyes to daylight  ::lol:: . Anyways, I'll be trying this tonight. Hopefully this works which I have no doubt it will.  I will post my results tomorrow morning!  :SleepMeditate2:

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## nina

I was able to use this technique again a few times while DEILDing last night.

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## Ctharlhie

> I was able to use this technique again a few times while DEILDing last night.



Damn, I should have tried it when I woke up from my lucid dream last night  :Sad:

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## MarineRecon

I have tested the technique but it not introduce a lucid dream. Instead it increased my HI a ton. I think if I could've increased the vibrations then I would have been in a dream scape. I decided to give up after a hour because I would have only a hour till I wake up. However, this whole night wasn't a loss. I did have DILD. I'm not sure if the technique helped but I did go to sleep with the intention of lucid dreaming. ::D: 

I will try this tonight and I will also try to find some transitiong techniques because that is where I get stuck everytime.

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## Ctharlhie

I have to agree with this increasing the chance of DILD. It's basically what that COBRAS thread is about.

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## ljhak

Thanks for introduce a tip for SP. I want to use it when I fall into SP. I have a problem with SP, I always can move my eye, tongue and hardly move head although rest of my body are already paralysed. I expect that using this technic can solve my problem so that I can fall into full SP then have WILD eventually. :smiley:

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## faxman

Very interesting advice nina. My only concern is that I generally don't experience the vibrational state.

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## sanctum

Huh...I feel vibrations, with varying intensity.  But they last only about five seconds, and then they fade away and I can open my eyes in the dream.  It's not always completely clear and stable, though!  Maybe once I get really confident in manipulating my transition phase I'll try this.  But I'm still relatively new to the whole WILD experience.

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## Ctharlhie

I wouldn't have thought this is going to be that useful for you then. Nina came up with this when she got stuck in the vibrational state for extended periods, if you transition quickly you shouldn't need it.

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## raghav13jan

omg! i have been having such vibrations so often now but i am not able to get into a lucid dream after it. I hope this works..  :smiley:  Thank you nina!  :smiley:

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## nina

> omg! i have been having such vibrations so often now but i am not able to get into a lucid dream after it. I hope this works..  Thank you nina!



Good luck!

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## sanctum

I tried this last night -- it felt like my brain was rattling around my skull, then I managed to fall asleep.  Oops!  Trying again tonight.

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