# Lucid Dreaming > Lucid Experiences >  >  Having Sex With Dcs Considered Cheating?

## Lucid Night Flight

Suppose a person is in a relationship and has astral sex with another person - does that count as infidelity? The astral body and mind is fully conscious when engaging in astral sex and has the capability to think, reason, and listen or ignore one&#39;s conscience much like the capabilities of the physical body and mind. Although astral sex is real, whereas dreaming about having sex with someone is not, this brings up another question. What about having sexual dreams when you have a partner - does that count as cheating? Some things that happen within our dreams we have little or no control over, but what about those dreams where we do have control, or in lucid dreaming, where we&#39;re fully in control of our own actions, if we engage in sexual activity then, would that count as infidelity as well? Since the people in our lucid dreams and regular dreams are either a product of our imagination or are images of real individuals who are not actually participating in the dream, unlike in astral projections dreams, would it still be ethically wrong to consciously engage in sexual activity within those dreams? Theoretically, would that be equivalent to cheating? For those of you who have answered yes or no, please share the reasoning behind your conclusion.

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## Seeker

I know most of the people here would disagree with me, but, yes, I believe it is a form of cheating. 

Think of it, you are fully concious, feel everything, experience the emotions and bonds that form during normal sex.  You also exercise your will to do this.  Just because it is an &#39;astral&#39; or dream event does not change the fact that you purposefully chose to have a &#39;sexual encounter&#39; with another being.  Some will argue that this is just a form of masterbation.  Well, is not your masterbating while looking at the latest swimsuit edition also not a form of betrayal?

When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.

Let me turn the question around.  How would you feel if your partner told YOU that they were having &#39;astral sex&#39; or lucid sex with different partners?  Wouldn&#39;t you feel a sense of betrayal?  I know I would.

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## LucidDreamGod

Personaly I don&#39;t think so, I fantasize all the time, and fatasys only take place inside the mind, and basicly never even took place, and astral/dream sex isn&#39;t much diffrent (as they both take place outside the physical world) I red once in a book about astral projection, that astral sex is not considered cheating, infact it can be quite healthy, for example your partner doesn&#39;t have the same sex drive as you, and they never have to know about it, all depends on your definition of reality, I&#39;m an atheist though.

Your going to get alot of mixed feedback about this.

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## Warlock

I will have to agree with Seeker.
Well, he have already said what was on my mind too, so there is nothing left to say for me.

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## NeAvO

I agree with Seeker, I mean you are still having sex, and enjoying it with another person.

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## DyerMaker

Someone&#39;s going have to explain to me how this is possible. I thought AP was your energy/mind/soul whatever you want to call it leaving the body and traveling in this physical reality. 

So when you AP you have a form? And you are able to see and run into others are APing and just have random sex? I&#39;m not following.

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## LucidDreamGod

You are sopposed to be able to meet higher entitys or other projecters I believe astral sex has something to do with the throat chakra.
you pretty much said it all.

EDIT: although I do consider astral sex a form of cheating, I believe that it is impossible for your partner to be emotionaly harmed by it, inless you just come out and tell them, and the guilt from doing it is defined as irrational thinking.

1: if your sensitive you shouldn&#39;t do it

2: if your irrational you shouldn&#39;t do it

3: if it goes aganst your beliefs you shouldn&#39;t do it

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## icuurd12b42

No. Since you are not in full control even though you think you are.

On the other hand, one must consider the possibility that if the astral world is more real than ours then would having a partner here be considered cheating on you astral partner?

Since there is no way of telling if it&#39;s real or not then no, having sex in a reality (made up or not) beyond this one is not cheating.

Now stop thinking of ways to make you feel guilty.

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## bassv2

> I agree with Seeker, I mean you are still having sex, and enjoying it with another person.
> [/b]



That "another person" is your brain.

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## TweaK

I wouldn&#39;t consider it *cheating*, but if you have to .. exhaust your fantasies on a dream character, then you really need to talk to your partner.

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## Leo Volont

It seems that most people are voting on the side of promiscuity.

How many of these people would tell their spouse that they were so free and easy in their dreams?

If they would be ashamed to tell their partner... or afraid to tell their partner... that they are out to screw anybody or anything in their dreams, then they have voted not correctly, but only in regards to their dishonest wishful thinking. 

So, no, just because you would like to screw around and cheat in this one way where you are fairly share you could never be caught, does not make it right. 

Also, you must consider that if you become accustomed to finding sexual satisfaction away from your &#39;old man&#39; or &#39;old lady&#39; then it does not bode well for the relationship, does it?  If you are so happy to find &#39;Strange Stuff&#39; in your dreams, then how long before you start looking for &#39;Strange Stuff&#39; while awake. 

"Honey, I have to work late".  Its an easy lie and you will find yourself saying it, if you go on pursuing such adventures in your dreams.  After all, where do all of your Conscious Urges come from that do not originate first in your Dreams.   

Just look about at the jaded middle aged men and women who cheat with experience and pride themselves on being Men and Women &#39;of the World&#39;... street smart and all of that.  They did not start that way.  When they were young they were faithful and idealistic.  But what they allowed to go forward in their Dreams slowly crept into their Lives.

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## Merlock

> If they would be *ashamed* to tell their partner... or *afraid* to tell their partner... that they are out to screw anybody or anything in their dreams, then they have voted not correctly, but only in regards to their dishonest wishful thinking. 
> 
> So, no, just because you would like to screw around and cheat in this one way where you are fairly share you could never be caught, does not make it right. [/b]



Quoted and emphasised for truth.

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## Howie

> I know most of the people here would disagree with me, but, yes, I believe it is a form of cheating. 
> 
> Think of it, you are fully concious, feel everything, experience the emotions and bonds that form during normal sex.  You also exercise your will to do this.  Just because it is an &#39;astral&#39; or dream event does not change the fact that you purposefully chose to have a &#39;sexual encounter&#39; with another being.  Some will argue that this is just a form of masterbation.  Well, is not your masterbating while looking at the latest swimsuit edition also not a form of betrayal?
> 
> When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.
> 
> Let me turn the question around.  How would you feel if your partner told YOU that they were having &#39;astral sex&#39; or lucid sex with different partners?  Wouldn&#39;t you feel a sense of betrayal?  I know I would.
> [/b]



You and I seeker need to store a copy and paste about this topic. We have addressed this many times.
I agree with you.

So to turn a twist on things
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("seeker")</div>



> When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.[/b]



We all know that any one person is unlikely to fulfill your every fantasy. This maybe one reason they say day dreaming is often a healthy outlet to vent these pent up feelings.
Just a counter argument.
I still believe people need to pose some will power and not become so complacent with what they have.
If one is truly that unhappy then they should not be in that relationship. Also if you are consistently engaging in lucid sex and or day dreaming of another, well it is time to take a step back and look at your situation. Often I think through communication a lot of these issues could be addressed. People (Me included) are often chicken shit and do not want to stir up the pot. 
Well stir the damn thing up. If you can&#39;t talk to your partner, then who can you?
Dr. Phil.   :tongue2:  


Howie

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## Leo Volont

> I wouldn&#39;t consider it *cheating*, but if you have to .. exhaust your fantasies on a dream character, then you really need to talk to your partner.
> [/b]



"talk"

It always seems the deathknell of a relationship when one says to the other "we need to talk". 

There was a friend of mine at work to whom I would often enough confide with concerning my relationships and I would often tell him what I would say to my assorted girlfriends, that "if we need to &#39;talk&#39;, then there is nothing left to &#39;talk&#39; about". 

Well, my friend considered that a primary reason why I always had less &#39;action&#39; going on than himself, and that may well have been true.  His greater tolerance for the vageries of femininity along with more willingness to compromise and surrender did infact promote more longevity in his relationships. 

But then one day he confessed to me that one of his girlfriends had hit him the night before with the exact phrace "We have to talk".

And guess what?  He was surprised to find himself saying "If we have to talk then we have nothing left to talk about".  And he said it felt good. 

So you see, sex is not the only thing that feels good.

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## Universal Mind

Good question...

I will say from the beginning here that I don&#39;t think astral projection involves really leaving the body.  I think it is a dream like state induced from the waking state.  Also, I am one of those people who has a hard time relating to having just one woman for the rest of my life.  But more power to those who were cut out for it.  I wish I was.  With that said, I don&#39;t think astral sex would be cheating or betrayal.  Expecting your partner to see you as the only sexual being for them even in their thoughts is just asking for too much.  Some women expect their men to think of only them during masturbation.  That is completely unrealistic and involves way too high of an expectation.  I think that for a relationship to survive, there has to be some form of straying of the mind.  It gives the relationship less of a feel of being so limiting.  There has to be some breathing room.  Also, I think it might be neurologically impossible for a man to never even think of another woman sexually, and it is probably neurologically impossible for a woman to never think of another man sexually.  But like I said, I am not Dr. Relationship.

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## Leo Volont

> I don&#39;t think astral sex would be cheating or betrayal.  Expecting your partner to see you as the only sexual being for them even in their thoughts is just asking for too much.  
> 
> [/b]



And here I am so often accused of being illogical...

No, what you should be saying is that you are indeed cheating, but that your partner should not mind.  You can see the contradition in what you did assert -- that you don&#39;t consider it cheating, and that your partner should not consider it a betrayal.  If it &#39;was not cheating&#39; then where is the &#39;betrayal&#39; that you require your partner to forgive?

So, if you believe in "cheating" on Monogymy, then be man enough to say so.  Don&#39;t suppose you can sneak off and have sex and claim that just as long as you don&#39;t get caught it somehow isn&#39;t &#39;cheating&#39;.  

So tell the &#39;old lady&#39; that you pay your share of the bills, and do your duty about the house and the children, and after that what you do with your free time and energy is your own business, and if she don&#39;t like it, she knows where to find the courthouse. 

Instead you are so used to lying about cheating that now you even lie to yourself about it.

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## dreammask

To me personally, and I don&#39;t necessarily extend this personal moral to other people, it&#39;s pretty much cheating with you&#39;re consciously doing it, even if you feel as if you&#39;re in another realm or something.   I don&#39;t think it&#39;s cheating if you&#39;re dreaming and have no conscious control over it.  What I&#39;ve found funny about this topic, since I&#39;ve been with my husband, having sex in my dreams with someone other than my husband is almost an instant lucidity cue...  if things are getting hot and heavy with someone in my dreams who isn&#39;t my husband, I suddenly get upset, realize it is a dream, and go into the next room or whatever to find him.  I think that if you only partially gain lucidity in a dream like that, it&#39;s not cheating either.  If I don&#39;t gain full lucidity in those dreams, I don&#39;t stop and go looking for hubby.  I don&#39;t see that as cheating.

It is an odd semi-dilemma.

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## Universal Mind

> And here I am so often accused of being illogical...
> 
> No, what you should be saying is that you are indeed cheating, but that your partner should not mind.  You can see the contradition in what you did assert -- that you don&#39;t consider it cheating, and that your partner should not consider it a betrayal.  If it &#39;was not cheating&#39; then where is the &#39;betrayal&#39; that you require your partner to forgive?
> 
> So, if you believe in "cheating" on Monogymy, then be man enough to say so.  Don&#39;t suppose you can sneak off and have sex and claim that just as long as you don&#39;t get caught it somehow isn&#39;t &#39;cheating&#39;.  
> 
> So tell the &#39;old lady&#39; that you pay your share of the bills, and do your duty about the house and the children, and after that what you do with your free time and energy is your own business, and if she don&#39;t like it, she knows where to find the courthouse. 
> 
> Instead you are so used to lying about cheating that now you even lie to yourself about it.
> [/b]



Leo, I know you have admitted that you come here to provoke people, but I suggest you do it with a good bit more logic than that.  You just laid out quite an incoherent spew.  Since I like arguing with internet instigators, I will correct your mess.  I said that you cannot cheat on somebody with a thought AND added in detail that expecting somebody to not even stray away from them in their thoughts is unrealistic and unfair.  You assume that cheating could be the only percieved betrayal.  How about falsely percieved cheating?  How about betrayal in thought that qualifies as something that is not cheating?  How logical would a woman be if she called her divorce lawyer and said that her husband cheated on her with a magazine, or a mental image of an imaginary woman?  "My husband cheated on my with his imaginary mistress&#33;  I&#39;m going to kick her ass&#33;"  Then you went off into some really bizarre territory in the region of the completely unfounded.  Try harder.

Have you ever been in a relationship with one of the children you molest (I am only saying that because you once gave a passionate speech in defense of pedophilia.) and thought about only that child, year after year?  I bet you like to switch around between three year olds and four year olds, at least in your mind.  Right?

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## SAS

Forgive me for asking, but could somebody define "astral sex" for me? I&#39;m a bit new to the entire Beyond Dreaming forum.

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## Leo Volont

> Forgive me for asking, but could somebody define "astral sex" for me? I&#39;m a bit new to the entire Beyond Dreaming forum.
> [/b]




Do you know what a "Wet Dream" is?  It is to have sex with a Dream Character.  Well, Astral Sex is to have Sex with an entity from the Astral Realms... probably another person doing astral travel... like two strangers meeting at a Club and hooking up, only the &#39;cluc&#39; is the Astral Plane.

Anyway, the way this debate is shaping up, it seems that it is NOT considered cheating if it can be kept secret from one&#39;s significant other.  While they could be seen sneaking back and forth to the Clubs downtown, they think they don&#39;t have to worry about being caught having their &#39;Wet Dreams&#39;... and if the "Old Lady" finds the old &#39;wet spot&#39; in the bed, they could always lie and tell her that they were &#39;dreaming about her&#39;... yeah right.  Like anybody in the history of the world has ever dreamed about the person they are couped up with... except in their nightmares.

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## SKA

Lustfull desires are always present, even when you are madly in love with someone.  Many non lucid dreams include sex with DreamCharacters other then your Partner: Should you wake up feeling guilty? No. You didn&#39;t REALLY cheat afterall. And when you&#39;re in a Relation ship there&#39;s no doubt that you&#39;ll be attracted to others anywaz: As long as you don&#39;t give in to these desires and Value something as good and infinitely more valuable as Love Miles OVER Lust : You did nothing Wrong.

Having sex with Dream Characters other then your Partner is merely VENTING these desires in a Non-harmfull way as I see it.

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## Lucid Night Flight

> Someone&#39;s going have to explain to me how this is possible. I thought AP was your energy/mind/soul whatever you want to call it leaving the body and traveling in this physical reality. 
> 
> So when you AP you have a form? And you are able to see and run into others are APing and just have random sex? I&#39;m not following.
> [/b]



When you astrally project, your astral body detaches from your physical body (much like in the transition during death) and this body has all the senses your physical body has and you are able to either roam around within the physical plane or travel to an astral plane. Because you take on an astral form, the only way you can come in contact with an individual who can see you/acknowledge you in that state would be to encounter other people who are astrally projecting, or having an out of body experience, which is just another term for AP. I have read about people actually planning with their friend or significant other to willfully project to each other in the astral plane and some claim to have been successful at this. Of course astral projection has many more benefits to it than just sex. People can "meet up" within the astral state and do pretty much anything that they can do in the physical world, and all their senses are more magnified within the astral realm. Because astral sex involves people who are fully conscious, just because they&#39;re in the astral realm does not mean that they will be willing to engage in sexual activity with a random person they run into, but I think that a lot of people who are astrally projecting are not even realizing they&#39;re doing this, so they may want to "experiment" because they perceive the astral dream to be a regular dream. Also, from what I know, astral projection should only be practiced when a person is willing to lose some sleep because in that state your mind is constantly engaged, and therefore is not rested.

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## penny

Astral projection or oobes are as real as being awake. They can be accessed by lucid. In fact when you&#39;re flying whist lucid then you&#39;re probably out of body.
The astral body does not become totally separated from your actual body so no fear of dying. Dying is a total separation.
During an oobe we are completely alert, but contrary to what you may think, you actually feel totally energised when you return. It shouldn&#39;t drain, unless you&#39;re in contact with some nasty little vampire entitiy, in which case get the hell out of there. It should, in fact give you strength.
The whole notion of sex in the astral body is completely different than the material world. We are sexual beings. Breathing is a sexual act. Every interaction we have is sexual, but not in a normal sense, in an energetic sense. It is an organic exchange.
If you ever watch the aura of a plant you can see that they are the most turned on horny things&#33; They&#39;re constantly reproducing with themselves.
So meeting another human in oobe state will usually involve a complete honest exchange of energy. This is a sexual exchange whether you like it or not. However it&#39;s not like going into a bar and taking someone home to fuck, scuse the term.
It&#39;s 6.51 am with me. I&#39;ve been awake since 4. Are you ahead or behind in time zone?

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## zoo york is cool

> I know most of the people here would disagree with me, but, yes, I believe it is a form of cheating. 
> 
> Think of it, you are fully concious, feel everything, experience the emotions and bonds that form during normal sex.  You also exercise your will to do this.  Just because it is an &#39;astral&#39; or dream event does not change the fact that you purposefully chose to have a &#39;sexual encounter&#39; with another being.  Some will argue that this is just a form of masterbation.  Well, is not your masterbating while looking at the latest swimsuit edition also not a form of betrayal?
> 
> When you do these things, you are demonstrating that your partner has fallen short in some manner and that you need another outlet for your lusts.
> 
> Let me turn the question around.  How would you feel if your partner told YOU that they were having &#39;astral sex&#39; or lucid sex with different partners?  Wouldn&#39;t you feel a sense of betrayal?  I know I would.
> [/b]



Yes, Seeker took the words right ouut my mouth.

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## Man of Shred

LOL cool topic. i wonder if two people can have an astral Baby?.

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## Lars

Its like masturbation in my opinion, Would you beat yourself up over masturbating?

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## Nikolaa

> LOL cool topic. i wonder if two people can have an astral Baby?.
> [/b]



ROFL





> Its like masturbation in my opinion, Would you beat yourself up over masturbating?
> [/b]




Astral sex is the excangeing of energies whit another person,and it can lead to opsession and a veding(and devorce)i wlouden&#39;t do A sex,it&#39;s "to powerful" opsessing,it&#39;s not a masturbation,and LD sex is but this isn&#39;t

so yes it is cheating

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## Lars

> Astral sex is the excangeing of energies whit another person,and it can lead to opsession and a veding(and devorce)i wlouden&#39;t do A sex,it&#39;s "to powerful" opsessing,it&#39;s not a masturbation,and LD sex is but this isn&#39;t[/b]



Sorry, I didnt realise. Scratch my opinion then.

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## italianmonkey

given one is innocent until proven guilty...

well, that&#39;s not definitely something you can prove... so...

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## Nikolaa

> given one is innocent until proven guilty...
> [/b]



not where i come from XD

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## Man of Shred

Ok, the way i see it. 70% of the female population have NEVER had a... ahem.... Vaginal orgasm. this is due to men&#39;s ignorance of female anatomy.

 so from the female side i can see why it would not be an infedlity because most likely in thier dreams or on the astral plane they are probably having much better orgasms than what their current lover can provide. so, to any guys if your GF goes to the bathroom immidiately after the act, it&#39;s probably not because they went to pee LOL.

 PLUS astral sex may keep them from cheating on their current lover. since they can just go into dreaming to get off&#33; so if it keeps the relationship going. i certainly wouldn&#39;t have a problem with it.

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## deathly_hallow

I read it on this board somewhere but I cant find the original post. Can someone please give me the link? Thanks.

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## Dice

I don&#39;t think it&#39;s considered cheating. Your dreams are just another reality, which isn&#39;t the same as the reality you&#39;re in now. Therefore, when you have sex with a DC, you aren&#39;t really having sex in waking life, are you? So my opinion is that you didn&#39;t really cheat or anything. That is even when you&#39;re lucid. In normal dreams when you aren&#39;t aware that you&#39;re dreaming, I think it&#39;s even more appropiate to say that it&#39;s certainly not cheating. Your subconscience created the whole scenario. All you do is accept the reality as your own, as if you have no other reality, which you have, you just don&#39;t know it in normal dreams.

I hope that makes at least some sense.  :smiley:

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## Seeker

This topic has been brought up before, but in my mind, if you are in a committed relationship with someone, having sex with a DC is considered cheating.  This applies only to a lucid dream since you have full control and know right from wrong.

Let me reverse this question.  If your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/partner rolled over one morning and started telling you all about the most amazing sexual encounter they had with a DC that night, wouldn&#39;t it hurt your feelings?  Not even just little bit?

Reality is reality, there is no difference between waking and lucid reality because in both, your concious mind is active.

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## ExoByte

> Reality is reality, there is no difference between waking and lucid reality because in both, your concious mind is active.
> [/b]



Well, except... you know... that the lucid reality _isnt_ real.  :tongue2:  

Im going to see if I can dig up that original debate.

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## Seeker

> [color=#3333FF]Well, except... you know... that the lucid reality _isnt_ real.  
> [/b]



Dag&#33;&#33;&#33;  :Sad:   All this time, I thought it was.  I won&#39;t hijack this thread with a dissertation on what reality is.

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## ExoByte

Might as well, Its only a matter of time until I find the original Sex with DC thread. 

 ::hijack::

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## Meidi

No. It doesn&#39;t count as cheating. It&#39;s like saying masturbation is cheating.

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## LucidDreamGod

Here

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## Seeker

Still nobody has answered my question....

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## Likenight

> Let me reverse this question.  If your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/partner rolled over one morning and started telling you all about the most amazing sexual encounter they had with a DC that night, wouldn&#39;t it hurt your feelings?  Not even just little bit?[/b]



Simply don&#39;t tell your partner you had sex with DC. Nobody will be hurt.  ::evil::

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## becomingagodo

what about swinging

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## ModestMouse

In my experience no it&#39;s not. But don&#39;t share it with your partner cuz trust me they will still feel hurt&#33;

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## ExoByte

> Still nobody has answered my question....
> [/b]



You asked a question?

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## Dice

> Well, except... you know... that the lucid reality isnt real.[/b]



It&#39;s real, though. You&#39;re able to see, hear, taste, smell and feel stuff. You&#39;re just in another reality with different rules. Of course it&#39;s created by your mind. If the lucidity reality weren&#39;t real, why would your waking reality be real? You perceive things the same way. Except that the type of input is different. Besides, when you&#39;re walking with someone in the waking reality, and you ask the person you&#39;re walking with: "Did you see that little bug over there?" Chances are high he wouldn&#39;t even have noticed. So what is real, really?





> Reality is reality, there is no difference between waking and lucid reality because in both, your concious mind is active.[/b]



True...





> Let me reverse this question. If your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/partner rolled over one morning and started telling you all about the most amazing sexual encounter they had with a DC that night, wouldn&#39;t it hurt your feelings? Not even just little bit?[/b]



I see your point, however, it&#39;s still tough to answer that.





> Simply don&#39;t tell your partner you had sex with DC. Nobody will be hurt. [/b]



That&#39;s a good way to look at it.  :tongue2:  "What one doesn&#39;t know, can&#39;t hurt."

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## Seeker

> Simply don&#39;t tell your partner you had sex with DC. Nobody will be hurt. 
> [/b]



OK, so why would you want to keep a secret like that from your partner?  Is it because they would feel like you are cheating on them and probably break up with you?

Someone mentioned that lucid sex is just masterbation.  OK, Go down the the local porno shop, rent a movie, masterbate to it and then tell your partner how good it was and how much you enjoyed fantasizing about the ladies, especialy the blonde with the big boobs.

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## ExoByte

> It&#39;s real, though. You&#39;re able to see, hear, taste, smell and feel stuff. You&#39;re just in another reality with different rules. Of course it&#39;s created by your mind. If the lucidity reality weren&#39;t real, why would your waking reality be real? You perceive things the same way. Except that the type of input is different. Besides, when you&#39;re walking with someone in the waking reality, and you ask the person you&#39;re walking with: "Did you see that little bug over there?" Chances are high he wouldn&#39;t even have noticed. So what is real, really?
> [/b]



Our dreams are all in our mind. Its an alternate reality, but its not real. Our dreams are our mind, or subconscious. In our dreams we defy real laws. In our dreams these laws are non-existant. 

But, it all depends on the question What is real? Is real what you can see? Hear? Touch? Taste and Smell? If thats the case then dreaming is as real as reality.

But is reality where science exists? Where laws of the universe exist? Where the universe is in its 4 dimensions? Is real where you can live and die? Is real a physical manifestation? If thats the case, then dreaming is the farthest thing from real, and is nothing but a pseudo-reality. 

Can real even be defined? Let me ask you this. A person hears voices in their head, claim that someone is talking to them even though they are alone. They are legally insane. Are those voices real? They are there to the person. They can hear them. They, and they alone experience it. Just like our dream worlds. Each person has their own dream world that they alone experience. So if that person&#39;s voices arent real, why are our dream worlds? If someone is tripping out on LSD and they start seeing things, are those things real? They&#39;re hallucinations, but the person can see, hear, touch, smell and possibly taste them. Its all an illusion to the person, but its real? 

Its all a matter of opinion on whats real, and whats not. Its all on your definition of real. Just so you know, when I told Seeker that its "You know, not real" I was making a small joke. Real is a variable. Real is different for every person. Im agnostic on the subject, and in saying Real is a variable, I say the circumstances depend on the definition of Real. Reality is constantly changing. So dreams may or may not be real. Its up to the person to decide whats real and whats not.

In the moment of your dream, as you exist in the universe that is your mind. Its real. It exists to you. But once you awake, its no longer real. The reality it was is destroyed and its nothing but an illusion you experianced.

So, on the subject of wether its considered cheating... No. I dont believe it is. The characters in your dreams are not real. They dont exist. They are characters in your mind. They are characters that do not exist in the real world and were created by your subconscious. If having sex with a DC in a dream is cheating, then just thinking of sex with someone else is cheating. Thats not to say its right to think of sex with someone else, but it cant be helped. Its an urge that we as humans have. When you dream, ultimatly you are just thinking on a larger more intense scale.

----------


## deathly_hallow

Ok, so what is the final conclusion. Is it cheating, or isn&#39;t it?

----------


## Likenight

> OK, so why would you want to keep a secret like that from your partner?  Is it because they would feel like you are cheating on them and probably break up with you?[/b]



Maybe both. I would base my decision "to keep secret or to talk" on how much is partner open-minded and tolerant to dreams.

My opinion: Every person has had sex dreams at least once a life. Members of partnership are people, too. So "this cheating" would be fifty-fifty. It would be just a issue of finding the gently way of talking about it.  And I think dreams are a good source of ideas (techniques, foreplay, afterplay, ...) to try for preventing sex becoming dull ( ::hump:: ).

----------


## LucidDreamGod

> OK, so why would you want to keep a secret like that from your partner?  Is it because they would feel like you are cheating on them and probably break up with you?
> [/b]



Well yes that is why people wouldn&#39;t tell, but we all live in independant conscous worlds it&#39;s from the phase "what you don&#39;t know won&#39;t hurt you" in this case theres a 100% chance it will never effect your partner inless your foolish enough to tell them, it&#39;s the telling that hurts them, no I would not want my partner to cheat on me, and I would never cheat on them, simply becouse of the risk of hurting their feelings.

This may sound a bit weird but if my partner (I don&#39;t have a partner BTW) cheated on me in a dream and I knew nothing about it, I&#39;m sure I wouldn&#39;t feel hurt, though I don&#39;t want it to happen, I&#39;m sure it wouldn&#39;t effect me, and if she was stupid enough to tell me about it, well I wouldn&#39;t like that.

Cheating with a DC may not be the most light hearted thing you can think of all though the truth is cold hearted, I mean no one wants their partners to cheat in a dream, but it will be totaly harmless to them.

One of the gifts of having an independant mind.

----------


## Marvo

Well, since I know what dreams are, I wouldn&#39;t mind if my gf/bf is having sex in their dreams.

Sex in dreams is sexual-self-stimulation, which is, masturbation.
If my partner hates me for masturbating, then my partner is screwed up  ::|:

----------


## Dice

> Our dreams are all in our mind. Its an alternate reality, but its not real. Our dreams are our mind, or subconscious. In our dreams we defy real laws. In our dreams these laws are non-existant. 
> 
> But, it all depends on the question What is real? Is real what you can see? Hear? Touch? Taste and Smell? If thats the case then dreaming is as real as reality.
> 
> But is reality where science exists? Where laws of the universe exist? Where the universe is in its 4 dimensions? Is real where you can live and die? Is real a physical manifestation? If thats the case, then dreaming is the farthest thing from real, and is nothing but a pseudo-reality. 
> 
> Can real even be defined? Let me ask you this. A person hears voices in their head, claim that someone is talking to them even though they are alone. They are legally insane. Are those voices real? They are there to the person. They can hear them. They, and they alone experience it. Just like our dream worlds. Each person has their own dream world that they alone experience. So if that person&#39;s voices arent real, why are our dream worlds? If someone is tripping out on LSD and they start seeing things, are those things real? They&#39;re hallucinations, but the person can see, hear, touch, smell and possibly taste them. Its all an illusion to the person, but its real? 
> 
> Its all a matter of opinion on whats real, and whats not. Its all on your definition of real. Just so you know, when I told Seeker that its "You know, not real" I was making a small joke. Real is a variable. Real is different for every person. Im agnostic on the subject, and in saying Real is a variable, I say the circumstances depend on the definition of Real. Reality is constantly changing. So dreams may or may not be real. Its up to the person to decide whats real and whats not.[/b]



Yeah, you&#39;re right. Real is subjective, not objective. That&#39;s what I was trying to make clear. I don&#39;t think real can really be defined as other terms. It&#39;s different for everyone. Also, I didn&#39;t notice you were making a joke.





> In the moment of your dream, as you exist in the universe that is your mind. Its real. It exists to you. But once you awake, its no longer real. The reality it was is destroyed and its nothing but an illusion you experianced.[/b]



Or it&#39;s just an experience you aren&#39;t able to experience anymore. Just like going to an island, when you find out that your boat is sinking, and you can&#39;t possibly go back to home again. Unless somebody saves you. With dreaming, it&#39;s possible to get back to where you left off, it&#39;s just hard. Just like being saved. I do understand your point about &#39;the reality being destroyed&#39;. However, will you able to experience youth again when you&#39;re an adult? Then how real was it? The reality is destroyed and no longer real?

----------


## ExoByte

No final conclusion. Best bet is to read each post and draw your own conclusion. This subject is like a religious debate, it&#39;ll never end.

----------


## legbuh

Now, lets assume for a minute that having sex with a DC "isn&#39;t cheating", just for the sake of discussion.

Now lets say in a LD you purposley bring in a woman/man you know IWL (sorry, still learning all the acronyms.. In Waking Life?)  Someone you are attracted to.  They could be in a relationship or married, as are you.

You bring them into your LD for the sole purpose of sex.  Because you know it would never happen IWL, and if it did, it would probably hurt a lot of people.  But in a LD, it won&#39;t hurt anyone.

Is that cheating?  Now we&#39;re getting into morality.  I&#39;d say this is a little different that willing in Demi Moore or some Vic Sec Model.

I&#39;m not saying I haven&#39;t done the above.  But just feeding the fire.   :smiley: 

Something great about waking up after an encounter with a DC and feeling that "lovey" feeling like when you first fell in love... it normally puts a smile on my face, and makes me want to bring that feeling back more with my wife.

----------


## LucidDreamGod

> Is that cheating?  Now we&#39;re getting into morality.  I&#39;d say this is a little different that willing in Demi Moore or some Vic Sec Model.
> [/b]



Well it all depends on the partners views, and if you were foolish enough to tell them about your dream.

----------


## ExoByte

This brings up an important, but sad point. The most succesful relationships are based on lies.

----------


## LucidDreamGod

> This brings up an important, but sad point. The most succesful relationships are based on lies.
> [/b]



How is that true?

----------


## deathly_hallow

Thats interesting...Did you get that quote from Lord of War? 
"Yuri Orlov: Some of the most successful relationships are based on lies and deceit. Since that&#39;s where they usually end up anyway, it&#39;s a logical place to start. "


Anyway, I&#39;d also like to know if its cheating if you do it with someone you know or with a celebrity and not a made up DC.

----------


## ExoByte

> Thats interesting...Did you get that quote from Lord of War? 
> "Yuri Orlov: Some of the most successful relationships are based on lies and deceit. Since that&#39;s where they usually end up anyway, it&#39;s a logical place to start. "
> Anyway, I&#39;d also like to know if its cheating if you do it with someone you know or with a celebrity and not a made up DC.
> [/b]



Favourite movie&#33; Thats part of it. House has the same standpoint. Unfortunatly, there is a lot of truth to it. 





> How is that true?
> [/b]



The above point, from Lord of War is actually correct.

Secrets and Lies. Look at any happily married couple. Are they as truthful as they seem? Is any person really who they say they are when they get married? What happens to the couples once the truth is revealed? First thing is usually seperation. 

Looking from a statistical standpoint, almost all relationships are dishonest in someway or another. Neither side knows everything. Neither side is ultimately telling the truth. 

Im not saying this goes for everyone, but its true statistically. Honesty is a good thing, its unfortunate that many relationships are false, lies or half truths. 

Some guy says he did work in the military, woman falls for him and they live happily. Decades later after happy marriage, she finds out he was nothing but a cook getting paid minimum wage shes not going to have that same respect for him. She&#39;ll shrug it off, as one thing, but will want to know what else is being hidden. She&#39;ll want a more open relationship, and will have both partners vow to be more honest. The relationship will gradually diminish, and soon it will erupt when all sorts of truths come out. Each person learning more about their partner, finding out they are a completely different person then they thought. 

Again, its not right. Actually, its wrong. Truth should not be what destroys a relationship. Fortunatly there are a few out there who can actually be openly honest and not have the relationship destroyed. But unfortunatly, the statistics are right and speak for themselves.

----------


## Moonbeam

> Well, since I know what dreams are, I wouldn&#39;t mind if my gf/bf is having sex in their dreams.
> 
> Sex in dreams is sexual-self-stimulation, which is, masturbation.
> If my partner hates me for masturbating, then my partner is screwed up 
> [/b]



I have to concur with Marvo.  My BF hates to hear about my dreams unless they are sex-related; then all of a sudden he is interested.  I think he would be amused and/or insulted if somebody asked him if he was threatened by me having sex with a DC.

----------


## ♥Mark

Being dumped for an imaginary friend... That&#39;s harsh&#33;

----------


## eurotrash

> Reality is reality, there is no difference between waking and lucid reality because in both, your concious mind is active.[/b]



I agree with this, though perhaps for different reasons.

A LD is just as real as waking "reality", seeing that both are simply in your head. Your brain constructs the image of the world around you in your waking state, and it constructs the image of the world around you in your dream. How can you say one is real and not the other?

Just because one is a shared experience doesn&#39;t make it any more real than the other. Since when does mass hallucination equate to reality?

In the waking state, you never see anything outside your head. You only see and sense the image and sensations that your brain provides you with. So for all you know, those people you "see", those friends of yours, you cannot "know" that they exist anywhere other than in your head. Because anyone else who sees them and confirms their "objective reality" (no such thing) could very well exist only inside your head too.

There is no reason to call one of them real and not the other. Your distinction is based upon one of your brain&#39;s contructs overriding the other. That&#39;s all.

Reality is in your head.

----------


## Oneiro

I would say to ask one&#39;s partner what they think.

----------


## Dice

> I agree with this, though perhaps for different reasons.
> 
> A LD is just as real as waking "reality", seeing that both are simply in your head. Your brain constructs the image of the world around you in your waking state, and it constructs the image of the world around you in your dream. How can you say one is real and not the other?
> 
> Just because one is a shared experience doesn&#39;t make it any more real than the other. Since when does mass hallucination equate to reality?
> 
> In the waking state, you never see anything outside your head. You only see and sense the image and sensations that your brain provides you with. So for all you know, those people you "see", those friends of yours, you cannot "know" that they exist anywhere other than in your head. Because anyone else who sees them and confirms their "objective reality" (no such thing) could very well exist only inside your head too.
> 
> There is no reason to call one of them real and not the other. Your distinction is based upon one of your brain&#39;s contructs overriding the other. That&#39;s all.
> ...



I couldn&#39;t have said it better myself.  :smiley:

----------


## GinNTonic

> This topic has been brought up before, but in my mind, if you are in a committed relationship with someone, having sex with a DC is considered cheating.  This applies only to a lucid dream since you have full control and know right from wrong.
> 
> Let me reverse this question.  If your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/partner rolled over one morning and started telling you all about the most amazing sexual encounter they had with a DC that night, wouldn&#39;t it hurt your feelings?  Not even just little bit?
> 
> Reality is reality, there is no difference between waking and lucid reality because in both, your concious mind is active.
> [/b]



Does killing people in a video game make you a murderer?

----------


## Howie

> Ok, so what is the final conclusion. Is it cheating, or isn&#39;t it?
> [/b]



If you have to ask, I would say it is. 

Seeker makes the most valid point to me. It is a conscious choice.

To play the devil&#39;s advocate:
Is masturbating and thinking of someone else also wrong? That too is a choice.

----------


## LucidDreamGod

> Ok, so what is the final conclusion. Is it cheating, or isn&#39;t it?
> [/b]



It all depends on the persons morals, if they believe in god and their anywhere around +30 chances are they think it&#39;s cheating, because if they believe to be judged by some being of reality, the truth is that reality never judges us, that is if your atheist like me, society is the ownly thing that judges us.

I&#39;m not here to flame christians, sometimes people can choose a life with freedomes (atheist) or a life with faith.

----------


## Howie

> It all depends on the persons morals, if they believe in god and their anywhere around +30 chances are they think it&#39;s cheating, because if they believe to be judged by some being of reality, the truth is that reality never judges us, that is if your atheist like me, society is the ownly thing that judges us.
> 
> I&#39;m not here to flame christians, sometimes people can choose a life with freedomes (atheist) or a life with faith.
> [/b]



Would your spouse not be included under, "Society" at best?    ::|:

----------


## LucidDreamGod

Yes they would, but again if you don&#39;t tell them, it&#39;s impossible to hurt them, take for example surgery, people use drugs to numb bodies, when they cut into them they feel no pain, whether or not you choose to cheat in a dream, has no effect on your spouse.

EDIT: maybe I&#39;ve got this wrong, it&#39;s considered cheating (I sorta agree) though I don&#39;t belieave it&#39;s harmful to your patrner, cheating is a bad thing to do in RL, but is it the same in a dream? 

I don&#39;t think so.

----------


## Howie

> Yes they would, but again if you don&#39;t tell them, it&#39;s impossible to hurt them, take for example surgery, people use drugs to numb bodies, when they cut into them they feel no pain, whether or not you choose to cheat in a dream, has no effect on your spouse.[/b]



That is a fine line to walk LD God
Cheating on your spouse in waking life will not hurt them either, provided they do not find out.
There are many atrocities you could do by using that analogy. Governments and society do it all the time. 
I think if anything is getting numb, it is not the pain. It is our conscience.

----------


## LucidDreamGod

> That is a fine line to walk LD God
> Cheating on your spouse in waking life will not hurt them either, provided they do not find out.
> There are many atrocities you could do by using that analogy. Governments and society do it all the time. 
> I think if anything is getting numb, it is not the pain. It is our conscience.
> [/b]



I&#39;m not telling people to cheat in real life thats alittle diffrent, I&#39;m totaly against that, What do governments and society&#39;s do that people can&#39;t find out about, If it&#39;s torturing people for answers to questions, yep I&#39;ve heard of that, and that does harm people, and we shouldn&#39;t harm people thats not right, but when we cheat in a dream no one gets hurt, thats the only senario in which I&#39;d let that philosophy pass, i&#39;d never use the idea inless there was a 100% no one would know and it wouldn&#39;t effect anyone.

----------


## Mr.caramel

An affair is often a euphemism for a situation where two people are involved in an inappropriate romantic relationship. (from wikipedia)
  Now cheating is when you have it with another conscious being because then youare acturly betraying your partner because your having an relationship. I guess one can not have an relationship with ones self can they unless you have two minds or your a freak.
 Anyway for my answear i guess it would be yes because you are thinking about someone else when you should be think about your lover, but we are human and if one does love their lover then they would not need to think about anyone else even in dreams.

----------


## Scar

what is DC?

----------


## eurotrash

Dream character.

----------


## Moonbeam

> what is DC?
> [/b]



I was going to be a smartass and say "Detective Comics" but I won&#39;t be mean.  It is nothing more than a Dream Character.

Anyway, I was thinking was that even in lucids I don&#39;t have much control.  I almost always have sex in LD&#39;s, which I don&#39;t guess everybody does.  But I don&#39;t think I have much more control in lucids than in regular dreams, because there are lots of other things I&#39;d like to do if I could just remember to do them.  I often think my lucids are at the lowest level of lucidity, just at the point where I know I am dreaming but I still am in the dream-mind state where my thinking is limited to the situation of the dream.  I have struggled to do a couple lucid tasks and these focused my mind, but this level of control is rare for me.  So what I am getting at is that I may not be as responsible for the dream-sex that I have, even in lucids, as I would be IRL.  And maybe nobody is, maybe lucids are still just dreams and you are not using your rational mind, no matter how much control you develop.  Who gets to the point in dreams where they feel like they are as rational and conscious as IRL?  Does anybody?  This just gets back me to realizing I am stuck at a rudimentary stage in LD, and I can&#39;t progress past the point where all I do is cheat on my partner with random DC&#39;s&#33; 

Sorry to sort of change the subject but the topic of dream sex reminds me of my lack of LD control.  When the time comes that I have an LD and don&#39;t immediately find a DC to cheat on my bf with, I&#39;ll be happy.  Meanwhile I don&#39;t feel guilty....and I think you guys who think it is cheating should lighten up and have some fun&#33;  Even if you don&#39;t know what reality is&#33;  Nobody will ever know unless you tell them. The beauty of dreams.

----------


## BPolar

> what is DC?
> [/b]




its a skateboard clothing company

----------


## BohmaN

Do you mean that you leave your body and have sex astrally with another dreamer&#39;s astral body? or is this just a theory?

----------


## Marvo

Gah no. You have a dream and in that dream you have with a dream-character. Dream-characters are part of you, and if a part of you brings sexual-stimulation to your own body, it&#39;s called masturbation.

It really depends on the individual&#39;s morals. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s cheating, while other people do.

----------


## BohmaN

Ok,

Then I don&#39;t think it would be considered cheating, but it&#39;s a subtle matter. As Marvo stated, it depends on peoples morals. But it&#39;s still interesting how others of you put it, that it&#39;s your own choice to have dream sex with "yourself" and thus you should not chose to do it if you are loyal to your partner, because you are actually feeling excited and you are enjoying it... 

Really interesting topic though think I&#39;m gonna use it in my next essay  :tongue2:   :smiley:

----------


## elamb

It depends on the couple&#39;s perspectives of what "cheating" is.

I think the question of cheating relies entirely on the relationship between the two people.  Regardless of whether you believe that phenomenological experiences like Dreams/lucid dreams or "Astral Projection"/OBE/Remote viewing or whatever you want to call it is real or a bit of undigested beef, it really depends on the PERCEPTION of the couple.  The agreed upon boundaries.  

If the couple is cool with masturbating and fantasizing and flirting with other people then they are likely also open to Astral Sex and Lucid Dream sex.  But then it totally depends on their perception.

----------


## BohmaN

> It depends on the couple&#39;s perspectives of what "cheating" is.
> 
> I think the question of cheating relies entirely on the relationship between the two people.  Regardless of whether you believe that phenomenological experiences like Dreams/lucid dreams or "Astral Projection"/OBE/Remote viewing or whatever you want to call it is real or a bit of undigested beef, it really depends on the PERCEPTION of the couple.  The agreed upon boundaries.  
> 
> If the couple is cool with masturbating and fantasizing and flirting with other people then they are likely also open to Astral Sex and Lucid Dream sex.  But then it totally depends on their perception.
> [/b]



good point there

----------


## Pollonator

well even if its real, there are no concecuences about it, so does it realy matter the cheating ?   Anyway it only does matter if ypu belibe u will be punished after death...  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::

----------


## truerange

> Let me turn the question around.  How would you feel if your partner told YOU that they were having 'astral sex' or lucid sex with different partners?  Wouldn't you feel a sense of betrayal?  I know I would.



Interesting. 

I think dream sex gets filed in the "dont ask dont tell category". 

It would hurt your partner if they knew. But cheating... thats a stretch.

----------


## jaasum

What is "sex"? Sorry I am like 10 years old.

----------


## Selmuir

> What is "sex"? Sorry I am like 10 years old.



Please Be Quite ( and you arent 10 years old you are 20 on your profile , pedofile )

----------


## jaasum

duh, take a joke

Personally, yeah I think it would be cheating. What is your desire? Your desire is to have sex with someone besides your partner, so if you can find a way to do it without any consequences then you can indulge yourself, but your heart is still in the wrong place.

----------


## DrTechnical

After I master flying and opening portals and landing in a pre-determined point in space time, lucid sex is next on my list.

For the record, I have specifically mentioned this to my wife and she couldn't care less. I guess she feels it will reduce her "burden".

----------


## Adam

So thinking about having sex with someone else is cheating too? Since you are consciously thinking about doing it?

There is a difference between 'thinking' about doing something, and actually '*physically*' doing it. In the physical world in which we live in, yes, cheating is cheating, but the dream world, lucid or not is not where we live, and there for anything your mind thinks about does not constitute breaking the laws of the physical world?

If I shot someone in an LD would that constitute murder? If I had sex with a man would that mean I was gay? If I shot myself in the head would I actually die? All the answers to the questions for me are no. Because in the dream world, lucid or not, you are only dreaming. And that my friends, is a very big difference to waking life.

That being said I would be upset if my other half was doing this, but come on, can you seriously tell me you NEVER walk down the street and see a pretty lady and don't think anything WHAT-SO-EVER that could be sexual in nature?

I guess what I am trying to say is 'thinking' about doing something is different to actually doing it in my opinion. And I would rather just not know about it, but I am sure it goes on anyway. Like the saying goes, what you don't know, can't hurt you.

----------


## LucidDreamGod

Yeah as I've stated many times in this thread lucid dreams are basicly vivid thoughts that is all, it's amazed me some of the DV members here would think that this is cheating, although I know why they would do this, it could be either their afraid that some how this would carry over into real life (would be very dumb if you thought you could do the stuff in real life that you could in dreams) and the other one I think is that people want to think of lucid dreaming as a more real place then it is, and they think that acting with high morals will make lucid dreams more lifelike, kind of like how muslims sacrifice nearly every good thing in life so they can feel like their religoun is most important.

----------


## jaasum

> Yeah as I've stated many times in this thread lucid dreams are basicly vivid thoughts that is all, it's amazed me some of the DV members here would think that this is cheating, although I know why they would do this, it could be either their afraid that some how this would carry over into real life (would be very dumb if you thought you could do the stuff in real life that you could in dreams) and the other one I think is that people want to think of lucid dreaming as a more real place then it is, and they think that acting with high morals will make lucid dreams more lifelike, kind of like how muslims sacrifice nearly every good thing in life so they can feel like their religoun is most important.



No, it's more like if I had sex in my dreams (willingly) then it would be because I really wanted to do that, and therefore I have that desire in reality, I can just play it out in my dreams without and consequences. 

If I have sex in my dreams then I would have a desire to cheat in real life, just because I do it in my dreams does not make that desire right. When I wake up I would have a feeling of "Hell yeah! I just had sex! And She'll never know" Sort of the same as if I did it in real life.

----------


## LucidDreamGod

This all comes down to an argument over reather or not you have karma (beleive goodness will make your destiny change by some great force) or reather you think desire is a bad thing, which it's not and can't be controlled, if anyone disogress then I would ask, why not make the perfect relationship with anyone (the easiest person to get to) and make the desire between you two last forever, but no it can't be done can it  :tongue2:  else we would all have perfect relationships.

----------


## Ravenfire

> I would say to ask one's partner what they think.



I agree with this and that's exactly what I did.  My husband and I both agreed that dream sex, even while lucid, is no different from masturbation.  And neither of us has a problem with masturbation fantasies that involve other people.  I think it's just human nature to be attracted to more than one person.  I think that fantasizing/masturbation/dream sex/etc is a perfectly healthy outlet.

----------


## FooFightersKid

> That "another person" is your brain.



yeah. youre doing your brain!

----------


## Michael

No, it is not cheating and it should be seen as a good thing. its the closest you can get to living your sexual fantasies without cheating. its good and pleasurable in my opinion.

----------


## Lamneth-25

> Also, I think it might be neurologically impossible for a man to never even think of another woman sexually, and it is probably neurologically impossible for a woman to never think of another man sexually. But like I said, I am not Dr. Relationship.



Sexual attraction is a subconscious, chemical thing.  If you say you are not ever attracted to anyone else, you're just hiding your feelings.  Not that you should just go fuck whoever but what I am saying is for example:  I am somewhere and there is a really hot guy, I mean come on, I can't help but notice and the reaction in involuntary.  I am totally in love with my b/f and would never cheat on him.  ::smitten:: 





> Lustfull desires are always present, even when you are madly in love with someone.  Many non lucid dreams include sex with DreamCharacters other then your Partner: Should you wake up feeling guilty? No. You didn't REALLY cheat afterall. And when you're in a Relation ship there's no doubt that you'll be attracted to others anywaz: As long as you don't give in to these desires and Value something as good and infinitely more valuable as Love Miles OVER Lust : You did nothing Wrong.
> 
> Having sex with Dream Characters other then your Partner is merely VENTING these desires in a Non-harmfull way as I see it.



Well said.  I've had dreams where somebody (I won't say who  ::D:  and my b/f knows I like him and doesn't care) was in the dream and initiated...well, you know  :Oops:   ::goodjob2::  Damn that was a good dream... But in real life if I ran into him, I wouldn't be doing anything like that.  I mean sure I fantasize but would never _do_ anything.  ::D:   I feel the same about my b/f...I don't care if he had sex with somebody in a dream...I don't think he'd admit it tho LOL.

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## Mes Tarrant

I only read the first reply because I'm lazy, but the first reply was Seeker's and I agree _completely_. Especially about the looking at the latest swimwear edition example. It's just that _I_ would never do that... so why should it be done to me. And I'd go around the rest of my life wondering if maybe I looked a different way, my significant other wouldn't have the need to do that.

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## l00zidman

Well either way you choose to see it, I highly doubt your waking partner will leave you just because of some dreams.

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## Moonbeam

Get real.  If your partner is so insecure that they're threatened by a DC, they have serious issues.  Likewise, if you feel "cheated on"  by your partner's subconscious if they have a dream about someone else, you need to question your own sense of self-worth.

Dream sex isn't always about sex anyway.  Except when it feels really good, well, then it probably is.

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## skysaw

I'm married, and my wife has no problem with my exploring whatever I wish in my dreams. As long as she remains my only love in waking life, she's all for my dream-self going wild.

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## Alban

Well, I'm married to, and I think that it obviously isn't cheating in the literal sense, but I do believe in a kind of karma, of sorts, and I think if you're constantly getting intense sexual satisfaction from someone other than your significant darling then there are going to be consequences somewhere along the line, even if its just an altered chemistry between the two of you.

Obviously, as well, it's impossible NEVER to get a flurry of desire for someone else, but thats just the animal in us.
Doesn't mean you _have_ to have sex with that person, or even enter into a detailed mental fantasy about them.

I don't _have_ to horribly harm someone I don't like just coz the thought crosses my mind.
And if I fantasize about it too much, then that whole karma-ish thing comes into play again and they might die in an accident and then I'd feel bad, maybe.

EDIT: Bad spelling - I HATE bad spelling.

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## dodobird

We are living in a cage in so many ways, confined by rules, laws, regulations, and norms that the only freedom we truly have is the freedom of thought, imagination, and dreams. If this last freedom is taken away from us, then we are better off blown away by an asteroid. 
I say, in your dreams, go wild!

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## anthrax

I dont consider it cheating --- think about it, you can actually use it as a gateway to prevent cheating, couldnt you? Say you really want to have sex with your buddy's GF, but dont want her to cheat on him with you, then you can do it in a dream, and prevent it. I actually had the intention to have sex with one of the girls that I loved at my school in my LD(this was a while ago... before I was actually 'professionally' lucid dreaming but knew it could be done). Instead of having sex with her, we sat down and talked on my couch in my living room and ended up making out instead of having sex. I woke to a great feeling and the next day I asked her out (her boyfriend had borke up with her a few weeks prior) and she said yes... we actually talked about some of the stuff we talked about in my LD, and eventually we had real-life sex.

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## Soul_Sleeper

Personally, I wouldn't call it cheating.

Have you ever been in a relationship and seen a woman/man on TV and thought/daydreamed about having a go with that person? 

Well what are dreams? Are they not just all of our thoughts piled into a realistic subconscious fashion? Is it cheating if you think about it? No, it's not.

In conclusion, I just used as many big words and talked as facny as I could to get my point across.

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## Moonscape

Innevitably...I will end up having a LD about a lady friend that I find attractive.
No matter which direction that LD takes, I never share it with my SO.
It saves me a lot of grief..

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## Moonbeam

Yea, I'd say if you are having a dream about someone you know IRL, best to keep that to yourself.

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## little nemo

When you see a really hot sex scene in a movie and imagine yourself in the scene is that cheating? If not, how does that morally differ from dream sex?

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## Jeff777

according to whom or what religeon?

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## little nemo

Oops!    Just read Soulsleeper's post after submitting mine. Pardon the repeat.

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## Jeff777

Benefits of having sex with DC's

- They don't tell you to stop
- They like it rough
- They don't need rest
- They are willing to try anything
- Absolutely NO sexually transmitted diseases  ::D: 
- They can't get pregnant  ::D: 
- Noone knows but you and the DC
- It can be/feel more real than waking life sex
- You can form your own DC sex partner
- No moral consequences or impending judgments

------------------

Disadvantages to Waking Life Sex

- You have to buy dinner first (joke)
- A commitment is pretty much expected
- Pregnancy
- STD's
- AIDS



That being said, i'm not in favor of having LD sex forever and totally throwing away real life sex...that'd be stupid, but LD sex is excellent if you just want to have some quick fun without any ties.

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## TheTimeKeep

Its the difference between preferance and fantasy. In the dream you are also aware that your actions have no consequences, so why shouldn't you do such a thing? Its as equivelant to living the same day over and over, why _shouldn't_ you take advantage of that? Would you ever dream (get it  :tongue2: ) of doing that in real life, hells no! Does that help...?

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## Sleep Surfer

I don't see it as cheating unless it becomes a substitute or preference to a regular relationship.

I'm not sure I would share the dreams with a partner though.

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## Absolute

The flesh is nothing but a vessel for our mind/spirit/soul, a three dimensional consciousness composed of our free will, subconscous, and etc. Now, in human morals it is absolutely (which I would agree to) immoral to be dating a guy/girl but be with another without them knowing it.

However, this justification of morals is simply how we are raised and taught. Much like how most children in a specific family are raised to believe that 'sex is bad' until they reach their adolescent years, versus another family raises the children on what sex is and how it is a natural way of life.

Now, to go further into morals, what if (and I know there's plenty out there) a certain individual or pair of individuals DO want to share a love life with a single person, but still have sex with others. Is that wrong? Spiritually, no, as long as the couple agree to it. People could view it as 'bed buddies', but when you look at it, we are only blocking our physical temptations with our own restrictions of moral thinking. Some people out there do not want commitment whilst others do. Some people believe that once you're with someone they can't be with anyone else.

What's the difference if you had sex in your dreams or not? Regardless of how much more real it is, how you don't have to worry about pregnancy (that is, if it is heterosexual intercouse), and among other things, why would the question matter when it is still a replica of reality's morals? You're allowing adolescent moral thinking to block your way of thought. This is also something I would not want anyone to take offense to, but this is my understanding of the human way of life concerning sexual morals.

Spirit or flesh, I personally think it shouldn't matter as long as the couple are fine with it. Obviously if say, one member of the couple does not agree to it, you wouldn't want to tell your girlfriend/boyfriend of "Oh, hon, guess what I dreamt last night. I had sex with your best friend. It was GREAT."

You could only imagine the reaction.

Come on people, it was common back in the old days in Europe (Sparta for example) to have men sleep with other wives if a certain couple couldn't concieve a baby. Again, you may think "Oh my god, that's so immoral!". But what is the body again? Flesh. What is flesh? It is our vessel to learn, experience, and become enlightened in for the conscious spirit. The spirit has no gender, nor are there any restrictions for spiritual experiences. We are what we make of it. Spirits are our eternal consciousness, and our consciousness is the most beautiful thing in existence because it is thought that motivates all life. Should anything bound or restrict the free will of joy, expression, and intimacy affect any physical/spiritual person, I am completely against it.

It is, however, a different story when a said person cheats on an individual without the other knowing it, in dreams or reality.

So the main point comes down to is really a simple quote. "Your beliefs create your reality."

If you want to believe it is immoral or moral, go with what you FEEL is right. Just don't impose that thought on others.  :smiley:

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## Xaqaria

Damn, I never thought I'd hear someone call a sex dream "promiscuity." If thats not sexual repression, I don't know what is. Personally, I think if you are so insecure in your relationship that you have to feel bad about and hide sex dreams from your partner, then you are not fit for a lasting relationship. 

I don't know about any of you, but I'm in a committed, loving, trusting relationship and part of me will still always think about sex with other girls. Why? because it is built in to the human instinct and male hormones only exacerbate the issue. If acting out your sexual fantasies with multiple partners in your dreams is something you feel bad about, I'd say you are more likely to do something you regret in the real world. If you aren't free in your dreams, then you are truly enslaved beyond redemption.

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## Absolute

I totally agree with you, Xaqaria. It is in our genetics just as much as it is in a tiger and how it hunts for prey. People constrain themselves too much with worries, bounds, and constraints. People just need to let go of that crap and go with what you feel is right. Let the stress and worry go.

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## jamous

Is _fantasizing_ about another person infedelity? Becuase lucid sex is basically just that.

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## Dream Sailor

I could make this long and ramble to prove a better point. But it is late...

In essence: You can't cheat by masturbating, by playing video games, or by watching porn. Thus you cannot cheat by dreaming.

When my girlfriend is somehow able to pull the hair of the girl in my dreams, then I will be able to cheat.

Until then, I'm sorry, but it can't happen.

If you tell your girlfriend that you have been cheating on her in your dreams, and she does care and dump you, then of course you both need to see a shrink.

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## Absolute

Said and done.  :smiley:

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## jamous

fantasing about other people isn't cheating, but it could certainly show instability in your relationship.

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## Adam

I think there is a difference between fantasising about someone and lucid sex. 

I mean I often occasionally have lucid sex, but doesn't mean I care any less about the person I am with or that I fantasise about these DCs... Dreams a are dreams at the end of the day, whether you have control over them or not, and I know, deep in my heart if I have sex either lucid or not, it does not mean I care any less for my girl, or that she is not good enough, or any other bad feelings towards her. Similarly if she dreams about other men, and invariably she will, it wouldn't make me fell any less insecure about being with her.

And to turn around to someone and say "Were finished, you have been dream cheating on me!" Come on... That's just silly?

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## jamous

I would say that where dreaming about someone else is not fantasizing (not on the surface at least), lucid sex is. If it is intentional, it is. Not cheating, certainly, but fantasizing. And I said it _could_  show instability, but of course not necessarily.

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## jamous

I suppose it all depends on your partner's opinion in any case though doesn't it?

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## Absolute

Precisely. It depends on the partners. Hell, there's partners out there who willingly have sex with other people which technically is no problem. We're just caught up in morals and ethics of what we've placed down for modern bonding.

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## ClouD

I, personally, don't agree that love and sex are so intertwined.

Connectivity is something that draws people towards a sexual desire and love can be intergrated into sex,..
but,
i don't think anything is cheating.

Loving more than one person in the world; is that cheating?

When we die, (theoretically speaking) we lose our physical bodies, and after a while we become our astral bodies, as we are when we AP.

We retain love after death, but isn't sex just a materialistic drive?

I think it's a "want" that is shed with death.

Though possibly it's something more.

Either way, to believe that sex is an experience only to be shared with one person, or with people that you love, is a very materialstic way of thinking, regardless of what sex is presupposed to be.

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## jamous

> I, personally, don't agree that love and sex are so intertwined.
> 
> Connectivity is something that draws people towards a sexual desire and love can be intergrated into sex,..
> but,
> i don't think anything is cheating.
> 
> Loving more than one person in the world; is that cheating?
> 
> When we die, (theoretically speaking) we lose our physical bodies, and after a while we become our astral bodies, as we are when we AP.
> ...



ooo, well aren't we holy? 

haha, I see where you're coming from though

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## italianmonkey

no. ::D:

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## Lord_Pwnage

Everybody, espescially men, have a need to sleep with more than 1 partner. That is where porn comes in. If you believe that porn is cheating, than yes, lucid sex is cheating. If not, then no, as lucid sex is essentially porn.

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## Idolfan

My reply is going to be a bit predictable... seeing as I'm an atheist and don't beleive in any faith, or relegion. Quite literally the only moral I belevie is that it is right to stop suffering, and all other things really centre around that. I understand why you would consider it cheating but personally I don't beleive in that at all. 

However, if you're relegious and depending on what your faith says it most likely is cheating, because you're totally lucid and can make conscious decisions e.t.c.

I just don't beleive I would go to hell or anything so I'll do whatever I want in my dreams! I think that if you're partner found out (god knows how) then it would be their fault for making such a big deal out of it because...
IT WAS ALL A DREAM!!!

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## Siиdяed

Aethiests only morality is to stop suffering? You sure?

I'm fairly sure you don't need religion to believe in fidelity, for a start.

Not that I'm calling dream sex cheating. It's an urge, and you aren't _actually_ doing anything wrong. It's all in your mind...woooo....

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## Noin

i shall rightfully answer it.

It's both, yes and no.

In your own mentality, indeed, you have cheated

Yet in reality, you haven't, it never happened.

You basically cheated in your mentality, but not in reality, thus nobody else but you will experience the feeling of being cheated since it never happened. Yet you will be aware that you did, but without impact on reality.

That should be quite a simple and logical explanation

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## TravelerBetweenWorlds

I'll turn the question around and ask: do you think your boy/girlfriend doenst dream of sex? And non-lucid sex should be ok because its 'out of control'? that sounds like hogwash to me!

In fact, I'd be MORE ANNOYED if my GF had non-lucid sex, because then its not a roleplay/fantasy, but she actually is thinking that IS real sex! Remember in non-lucid dreams you think you are awake!  :wink2: 

my 2 cents

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