# Lucid Dreaming > Dream Control >  >  Dream Control: the complete tutorial

## BillyBob

Dream Control
The Complete Tutorial


Ever wanted to control your lucid dreams effortlessly and without having to worry about "accidentally" failing when you come apon a giant tirantula or something of the likes?
Well have no fear! Read on and you'll learn the two basic methods of controlling your lucid dreams. You'll also learn the ups and the downs of each way and get in-depth explanations and examples of each.

Because being a god is alot easier when you know how  ::D:  

_________________________________________________

*Ok.* First you have to understand what I mean when I say "theres two ways of controlling your dreams". It's pretty simple actually, first of all theres _Forced Control_, and secondly _Passive Control_.

How are these different you ask? Well, (to make things a bit more simple)
Hold the "ctrl" key and press "f", copy/paste whichever of these you want to look at in!  :tongue2: ): 
 Forced Control:------->  *<81672>

* Passive Control:-------> *<29456>*


*(Make sure you read both before continuing on)*
 

So there it is, the two methods of controlling your dreams.
You should know that these can be used together, just will the jetpack that you need for flying into existence and fly away, I warn you though, that jetpack willage will still adversely effect your dream. I advise against it
 
*Summary:*

Only Force control when you have to, I only told you about it because sometimes its better to lose your dream than to remain in it.

Use passive control techniques freely, they only add to your dream experience.

_______________________________________


(note: will be updating this topic soon for readability and to make it easier on the eyes  :wink2: )

Have fun.

----------


## BillyBob

<81672> Forced Control: 
Aggressive impartation of will*Upside:* Complete and total control
*Downside:* Loss of vividness/"concreteness" of dream.


 Forced control is exactly what it sounds like, it can be best described as just exerting the whole of your will apon your dream. When you use this method of control your actually taking yourself a bit _out_ of the dream and manipulating it then re-entering (I tell you this because you should know that this does actually make your dream very unstable).

Most people find it hard to simply say: "_____ will happen" and actually have something happen.
This is because they're doing it wrong. They don't yet understand the nature of the dream that they're in. Here's what you have to know about your dreams before you can use this method: 

________________________________________________


Ok, some of you may remember this, its an edited version of something I had in a previous post (note: edited extensively, the picture is pretty much the only "unchanged thing  :tongue2: ) 

 To help you understand the principles behind this, I'll start with this picture of a bathroom, I want you to imagine yourself standing inside of it: 


 Now that you've imagined yourself standing in this bathroom, begin to think about where you are. 
If you just came out of a hotel into this bathroom then your in a hotel right? Wrong... you see, in a dream you never really move, unless your expecting something to happen, it doesn't. If you were to walk out the door of that bathroom who says your going to end up in the hotel room you just walked out of? 
Your subconscious does. It says: "I just walked into this room from the hotel so I go to the hotel again" therefore you would walk right into the hotel due to the expectation brought on from real life.

If this really was real life then there's no chance you could walk out of the bathroom and end up on a beach in Hawaii, but this is a dream, and dreams don't happen in places, so there would be no difference in you walking out into the hotel then there would be in you walking out into the water on a beach. yes, this is impossible in real life but you aren't in real life, your in a dream, the dream has no restraints, you don't have to spin to teleport, you don't have to move to fly, you don't have to exert any power whatsoever into any of the actions you do, because you aren't doing it, you just "are"

now back to the bathroom, why should that water faucet be there at all? why should the ground be there, why should there be walls there? the simple answer is that none of that really exists, its an illusion brought on by your brain to keep your mind busy while it makes repairs on your body, a dream is the farthest thing from a constant environment, its just memories of different experiences put together to create a pseudo reality for your mind to play in, normally in a dream most things are constants, but once the conscious mind wakes up you can begin to realize that nothing is what it seems.
If you were to grab that flower on the sink and smell it, what would it smell like? your first thought is it would smell like a flower, when in reality it wouldn't smell because there is no flower, thus you could make it smell like anything you wanted to just by barely thinking say, "wet dog" and activating your minds experiences of what wet dog smells like rather than what flower smells like, you would be smelling a wet dog.
Now put that flower down and touch the sink, think its going to be smooth? again the sink doesn't exist, until you touch it it has no previous experiences activated saying what its going to feel like, its just an optical illusion, so if you were to touch it expecting it to feel like bread, it would be bread, it may still look like a rock but it will conform and feel exactly like bread 

with this in mind you can begin to see that a dream is non existent, all that exists within it is your consciousness, without you the dream is nothing, it isn't some other plane of existence you visit, its not anything, the dream is you and your experiences, it exists only for you and by you, nothing can visit and take it over without taking "you" over (evil spirits some see) 
If you see a giant 500 ft beast ravaging a town just remember that that beast is only what you make it, if you wanted it that beast could be a small poodle, or a loaf of bread maybe, perhaps even a sheet of Saran wrap, its what you want, and that alone

________________________________________________

 What you just read is the essence of the forced control technique. Every time you want something to happen just remember what your dream really is, and you'll find that you can easily do absolutely anything you want by simply changing whatever it is you want changed.


*In-Depth Look At This Method:

*Forcing control is something that should only be done when 100% necessary. Awhile back this was all I did to control my dreams, I felt that it was the only thing I'd ever need.
Soon I began to notice my dreams were less vivid, They started getting shorter, and shorter, and then even shorter. It got to the point that the second I got into the dream it would end without notice.

The reason that happened was because I had taken myself out of my dreams. I began to see them as fragile pieces of putty that I could re-arrange at will any time I felt the need. Though this is true, you should never get to that point, what happens is that you say: "darn, I hope I don't wake up" and guess what? nothing you do after that second will stop you from waking. 
("darn, I hope I don't wake up every time I enter an LD!") 
 

Use this sparingly (only use it to get out of _horrific_ situations), it really takes away the "realness" that you experience in your dreams. Sometimes you just have to set back and enjoy the illusion (and all that comes with it).
 ______________________
  <29456>

Passive Control:
Working with the environment*Upside:* Dreams much more stable; Much more realistic
*Downside:* Control less "direct" than Forced controlling; some things impossible to control


 If you just read the forced section then you'll be happy to know that this is much shorter and easier to comprehend  :smiley: .


 Passive control is much more natural than its forced cousin. It involves guile and cunning to get around the obstacles that you may encounter in your lucid wonderings.

The principal is simple: find a way to work with the laws your dream already has to get what you want. Don't *ever* warp reality (unless you use some magical device that you happen to find).
What I mean by "warp reality" is don't ever do something and tell yourself "I can do it because this is just a dream" 

*View your dream as a whole other plain of consciousness.
*Not as a "I'm leaving my body and astral traveling" plain, but as what it is. The level of dreams. The place you go to every night when you close your eyes. It does exist (even if only because you on some level make it exist) and even though your subconscious is the thing thats making everything around you, who cares? Its still here, and you don't have to keep thinking about it for it to remain.
It's a world as real as the world your in now (when its here).
Just look at it like that.

Ok heres some examples of "naturally"/"passively" controlling your dream:

*I'm standing in my house but yet I REALLY want to be having sex with my crush right now. What do I do?*Ok, this is pretty simple. close your front door for a second. Now think up a reason why your crush would come to your house (lets say, she/he was wondering if you had some sugar).
 Now act like that scenario (him/her is coming to get some sugar) is happening right this second.
 Open the door. Guess what? he/she's standing there with a cup in his/her hand!  :tongue2: 

.*I'm in the middle of a field and really want to fly over it. How can I do this and still be within the bounds of reality?*Think about this for a second. Whats the most believable thing that you would attribute to being able to fly? radiation? Realize that that field of roses is actually an old A-bomb testing ground. Maybe you would be more likely believe that aliens left a pill that makes the user experience antigravity? theres one on the ground beside you (oh look! even a glass of water). 

Don't make things appear, think up reasons why they should be there (aliens thought roses were cool awhile back, dropped pill. etc etc) 
 * Ok a couple more examples for good measure:*
 
*How do I turn into a wolf?*Your a werewolf.
 
.
*How do I make a building disappear?*look away, look back. WHOA! God just decided that he didn't like that buildings roof. 
________________________________________

The trick is to make it something that *you* believe will work. 
Always keep in mind that dreams aren't perfectly like real life, you can get away with alot more than you could probably imagine (without forcing anything at all)


*In-Depth Look At This Method:

*Though while reading this you may ask: "Why don't I just force everything? seems alot easier", I can tell you from first hand experience two things:When you passively control your surroundings the results are alot more believable (when you force stuff the results seem very fake)

andWhen you passively affect your dreams they have alot more meaning. You get to fully experience them in the way they were meant to be (and you can really feel the difference on every level)Passiveness doesn't affect your dreams stability, it doesn't make them shorter, they aren't less vivid, and they're just all around 100x more fun.
None of that can be said for Forcing control.

----------


## KuRoSaKi

O_O........................ Wow I see why it took 3 hours, you should get it moved to the tutorials section. Very good contribution to the site BillyBo.

----------


## FreeOne

hmm i wonder why my LDs are getting shorter

Soon I began to notice my dreams were less vivid, They started getting shorter, and shorter, and then even shorter. Soon I would open my eyes the second I got into the dream and it would end.





> The reason that happened was because I had taken myself out of my dreams. I began to see them as fragile pieces of putty that I could re-arrange at will at any time I felt the need. (though this is true) You should never get to this point, what happens is that you say: "darn, I hope I don't wake up" and guess what? nothing you do after that second will stop you from waking. 
> ("darn, I hope I don't wake up every time I enter an LD!")



 O_O  and there is the answer! :O  (funny thing is, i was just thinking about why extrememly recently lol)  

time to make the switch to passive  :smiley:

----------


## AbyssNess

That's really helpful, and I find passive control interesting. I've always been interested in the psychological aspect of dream control--it's basically tricking your own mind.

----------


## musicman

hmm...well i've only had two lucid dreams, but i find that I can make objects appear just by expecting them to be behind a door and opening it, or expecting it to be in my pocket and reaching for it.  are you saying that, to be safe, i should find a reason for it to be there (using God, aliens, etc.)?

----------


## Keurslager

Wow billybob, I just need to get this out of my system: "YOU ARE A FUCKING LEGEND! ::bowdown:: " although this is what I've been doing for ages, cept I used to use the forced control, which made my dreams get shorter, and WAY less vivid, so I switched to something like your passive control, also makes the dream more interesting if you leave some control to your mind. Anyways, I'll definitely try that passive method next time I want to have lucid sex.:p

----------


## Jules2007

Great tutorial! I can identify with the forced lucid happening's being "fake". Everytime I've tried to make someone/something appear, they've been there, but I've not been able to interact with them, they've been like a cardboard cutout or something.

I will definitely try the passive way, seems like a great idea and actually easier than trying to force it.

----------


## Clairity

Simply excellent BillyBob!! 

Thanks so much for sharing!!
.

----------


## Kromoh

about disappearing things in a dream



I've been wondering about this a lot lately. While it is so easy to create things with your mind (especially in a dream), it can be a bit hard to make them disappear... why?

Simply because we a not machines. If you had in your mind, say, a red car, even if you make it disappear, you will not make it disappear *completely.* Why? Because your mind cannot simply tell itself to "forget" that information. You could even get to the false illusion that you do no remember it anymore, but the information is still there, spreaded over your brain, and it will still influece what you think. That's the beauty of our mind called subconsciousness.
If you will the image of that red car out of your head, you could actualy do it, but it won't be erased totally: e.g. the colour of the car would be present in something else. That's how your subconscious can affect your consciousness. Unlike many think, what we call subconsciousness is not like a "hidden consciousness". It is the leaks and streams which affect your mind, without you knowing or controlling it.

The disability to make something disappear from your head can be moderate, but there are many problems involving it (schizophrenia, traumas, phobias, spontaneous loss of memory and some others). It may take some time in life before you can actually learn how to properly control your thoughts and e.g. make that scene from that horror movie get out of your head.


Finally, the million-dollar question: but then, how can I make something disappear from my mind?
The answer is simple to explain but hard to do: *canalize that energy, that thought into something else*. Take off your attention from the red car and take a closer look at the green tree just behind it. By focusing more on the tree, your mind will take that as priority, and the thoughts about the red car will end.
Again this applies to other situations. Chills down your spine just to think about that horror movie? Fear of facing mr. random-evil-guy?? Simple! Think of mr. random-evil-guy in your grandma's clothes. Then chain yoru thoughts and start focusing more on the clothes, and finaly, think _only_ of your grandma. By changing your focus progressively, not only will you get mr. random-evil-guy out of your head, but also will make sure your mind doesn't bring your attention back to him.




This knowledge will help you not only with dream control, but also with whatever situation it proves useful. Once again: creating things in yoru mind is extremely easy; making them vanish is the hard part.

bear hugs, Kromoh

----------


## musicman

does the dream become more and more real if you come up with more realistic scenarios for doing what you want? If I wanted a new car, could I imagine that I had recently bought it? would that be passive control?

----------


## eppy

omg, thanks billybob, i had a great lucid because i read your post! i even was like "ha, i read a post last night on how to do this" when talking to another dc because i made something magically appear.

----------


## Xanous

Ah! That explains why I have been waking up so soon. You put to words what I have been trying to figure out. It seems like when I try to do too much with my dream it wakes me up but if I let the dream flow and let the things I want to happen happen rather then force them the dream will last much longer. I never thought of finding a reason this or that will happen I just thought I had to will it. The harder I concentrate to make something happen the sooner I will awaken. There was a time I tried to force someone to appear in a dream and I felt like I was going to awaken so I forgot about that and focused on an object in the dream and viola. The dream continued for quite some time.

----------


## LucidMike14

*Great, great thread. Thanks for posting!*

----------


## Wanted

You, sir, are a genius.

----------


## Hazel

Wow, great tutorial! I don't really have problems controling the dream itself, but I cannot control the DCs. Maybe the passive control could help me with that.

----------


## juroara

great tutorial! I remember when you complained you reached the end of lucid dreaming. Its kinda like when you over analaze something, you miss the point! good to see you figured out what went wrong and made this awesome tutorial

in short we can say working against your own subconscious gives rise to limitations in dreams - including lack of vividness.

consciously telling the dream to do something doesnt change your own subconscious thoughts that that something is completely illogical or impossible. thats why passive control works when forced control might not.

I remember I had trouble levitating items when I demanded the dream that I levitate items. Nothing happened. The items barely budged and even then, maybe I only imaged they did Xb

after that I thought maybe I need to do something else to make my psychokinesis work. And thats when I realized I wasnt treating my pscyhokinesis as..psychokinesis! 

I imagined I had this invisible energy, that fires out into the air and latches onto the item like a hand - in that dream I could move items as easily as I can move my fingers. Since I saw the anime AKIRA at a young age, my subconscious was already wired as to how psychokinesis works - its energy, not a verbal command. I couldnt trick my own subconscious after 15 years as to how psychokinesis works or doesnt work.

So using a verbal command wouldnt work anymore than commanding your own legs "alright legs, RUN!". We dont command our body to move right? Your subconscious knows this all too well.

I can run wild and fast in a dream if I just take the moment to recall the weight of my body transfering to my feet and to the floor. My subconsious remembers running so well it even adds wind without me asking. 

your subconscious isnt necessarily smart, technically it doesnt really think - thats why you can pull completely random items out of your pocket that werent there a minute ago. In the case of the dream subconscious all it cares for is if an item can be found in a pocket. It asks, 'can an item be found in a pocket? Yes' thats why it works.

Can you fly to the the moon in a dream? Yes. But can you walk to the moon in a dream? That is SOOOO working against our subconscious knowledge that walking is always on solid ground, that most dreamers here would have a hard time walking to the moon without a staircase.

----------


## someweirdsin

Thanks for sharing this! I too have been enjoying the awesomness of passive control. I found my dreams were loosing vibrancy everytime i attemted to control it so i set out to enjoy my dreams more for what they are.  The passive observer.  My moving around the scene that is created and interact with what is created instead of attempting to control or create things.  I discovered that by simply picking things up, feeling, smelling and tasting, created a world vibrant and vivid and just amazing to be in.

----------


## Alvarian

Billybob, I'm pretty damn sure there is no word in any language to describe the awesomeness contained within you. So I made one! Superlawesome.

All extremely over-the-top unneeded praising aside, I have a question. Why should we not just simply go "This is a dream, so I can do this" as the rationale for our passive control? I mean, we aren't forcing our dreams to do something purely through our will, tightening our jaw as we concentrate on our task with a vein popping out of our head. Lol. We just realize that since it is a dream, we can do anything. Isn't that trick good enough? I mean for certain things, I can see the whole "They are behind a door" better than just creating them out of thin air in most cases. But do you mean that by telling ourself it is a dream it'll be less realistic and take away from the experience or something?

The passive control will be useful to me since I'm back from a stupid dry spell that seem so common amongst people nowadays. Two lucid dreams in the past three days! And, of course, in the first one I attempted to force create stuff in my hands right in front of my eyes, I guess not being lucid for a while really made my thought process in dreams all screwy... I wasn't thinking clearly I guess. Or should I say, I wasn't thinking lucidly! Hah! Hahaha! I'm so clever...

----------


## LucidInCuB!zt

lol i have used the passive method without realizing.. i can asure that i had this dream where a mass killer armed with a knife was chasing me....the funny part was that after i got tired of running away due to the fact that the murderous dude never semmed to disapear and i ran and ran and he was still there chasing me what i did was just talked to the killer and somehow i got to convince him that i was his brother lol and he just stopped...lol i actually goto stand next to him without him hurting me lol..anyways what i said was "hey ur my brother" and cassamm~!! lol i still had in the back of my mind that he ould just kill me any minute but i guesss i just fooled and manipulated my subconscious mind with commands or speech what ever///lol cool im gonna experiment on making and convincing myself intead{{{passive method is the most effective}}}

----------


## Truffles

Wow! This is a great tutorial BB, and when I get more LD's, I'll be sure to use this! Thanks!

----------


## Rainman

Amazing tutorial.  :smiley:  Brilliant. I do have a question though. You suggest to only use passive control for the most part, which I entirely agree with, but is passive control the idea that you have to make a semi-realistic reason for why things are happening? 

Like would it still be passive control if I said that my lucid dreams take me to a different realm, which is the only safe place to use my superpowers. So as long as I'm here, I have super powers. Would that still count as passive control as long as I don't alter the environment in a direct way? Like I like being able to fly. Without using a jetpack or anything, just jump up and fly. But clearly that's not realistic.

But with my "i have superpowers" mentality, that's justified. My 'superpowers' don't extend to being able to alter where I am or teleport. Although, would teleporting/reshaping the environment via body spinning be passive or forced?

----------


## thegnome54

"But with my "i have superpowers" mentality, that's justified. My 'superpowers' don't extend to being able to alter where I am or teleport. Although, would teleporting/reshaping the environment via body spinning be passive or forced?"

I think the general concept is to satisfy your subconscious.  It doesn't really take much - think of non-lucid dreams.  Often you will realize when you wake that your dream had some very hare-brained logic to it.  However, this is apparently enough.  Simply saying "I have the ability to fly because I have superpowers, so I will now fly" instead of "FLY! LET ME FLY!" might be enough to satisfy your subconsciousness's demand for 'reality'.

----------


## pokilty

I like your description of why forced is a dangerous route! I never considered it that way, I will certainly let my dreams flow when i achieve lucidity.

----------


## LucidMike14

This works, too. My last lucid i became lucid by appearing in the bathroom in this thread and i remembered it was from a LDing thread and i became lucid!

----------


## Jared Boz 87

Looks like I'm the first person to post here in awhile, but I really think what you said about passive control may be the answer to some questions I had. Last night I had my first lucid dreams where I exerted any kind of control on the environment and also the first where I carried out objectives I set in real life. These dreams were not as clear as my previous lucid dreams and only lasted a few seconds. Now I think it was because I was using forced control and just willing the scenes I wanted into existence. 
Now I know I can just think of why there would be a trapdoor that led to where I want to go or a magic portal or something. I'm gonna try that tonight.

----------


## Amelaclya

Maybe this should be obvious, but I'm very new to LDs.

How do you change the dream scene without forcing it? I very frequently end up in my grandmother's house for some reason, but of course i'd much rather be at the beach  :tongue2:

----------


## BillyBob

> Maybe this should be obvious, but I'm very new to LDs.
> 
> How do you change the dream scene without forcing it? I very frequently end up in my grandmother's house for some reason, but of course i'd much rather be at the beach



I always use mirrors or walls.

Just walk up to a mirror/wall and think to yourself:
"This wall/mirror is actually a portal to _(Place you want to be)_!"
Then just walk through it, and you've teleported  ::D: 


The key with using passive control is that there has to be a semi-logical reason that your able to do whatever it is your wanting to do. This reason can be anything at all.
Your imagination is the limit.

----------


## Clairity

Great technique BillyBob.. definately going to try it!

----------


## mylucidworld

Yeh i am going to try this tonight.

----------


## arby

Ah, Nice tut there bud.

I tried (pretty feebly) to get across the concept of passive control in my placebo tut. I, of course, suck at explaining and you've done such a nice job with this tut.

Personally, I don't tend to force at all. The only time I infringe on the dream laws is time control. Even then I simply winder out loud "What would have happened if it had been like this 5 minutes ago" And poof I'm back.

Something Billy didn't mention: You can make ANYTHING do ANYTHING as long as you tell yourself the cause and effect are related. I think the example I used in my placebo tut was that I killed a samurai by opening a pink umbrella. 

Also relating to the subject, passive control is what makes up semi-lucids. (see my levels of lucidity tut in my sig) Passive control is vital for anyone who wants control in their dreams without going though the painful and restricting process of realization. Just like forced control does, realizing you're dreaming consciously will tend to adversely affect your vividness and length. Practice passive control and you may get a Semi yet!

----------


## relkon2

ok ive got an idea so tell me if this would work

im in a room and i want to be able to do forced control without realy doing forced control so useing passive i open a door and there is this guy standing there and he says " he this room just go flooded with raditation that mutated you you can now control the univers and twist reality"


im going to try tell me if it wil work

----------


## Woozie

Thanks alot man! Reading this thread gave me a DILD tonight. 

I was in my house just chilling. I decided to try and make a woman I know appear, so I went to the front door and stood there a while, picturing that my friend would come over for a casual visit. Then I opened the door, and there she was!

Now, somewhy most of my dreams contain very violent Dream characters who's out to hurt me for some reason. And this dream was no exception..
 When I had invited my friend in, a few other guys broke into my place and started harrassing me. I tried to DEMAND them to dissapear, but one of them just walked up to me and punched me in the face (and damn, that actually hurt). 

So again I remembered this thread, and I started picturing the floor being slippery wet, because I had just been mopping the place. And suddenly all these guys starts tripping over! No matter how much they tried to stand up they kept falling over again.  ::bigteeth:: 
I then say to myself that i've got superhuman strength. So I grab one of them by their feet and start swinging him around. I let go and he goes straight into a wall. 

When they all recover I tell them that they should leave, and they actually listened to me  ::chuckle::  it was brilliant...

----------


## Lucid Princess

Omg i really need to try this Passive Control, i had never even thought of it,
forced control was all i ever used.
thanx so much for this tutorial!

----------


## Dream Boat

... one word!,  WOW! ::shock::  you put so much time and effort into this!, i really respect you for this. what a great addition to the site!, im deffinatly going to bare this in mind and use it for future LD's.. thanks alot -Dream-boat-...  ::D:

----------


## relkon2

ok ive got an idea so tell me if this would work

im in a room and i want to be able to do forced control without realy doing forced control so useing passive i open a door and there is this guy standing there and he says " he this room just go flooded with raditation that mutated you you can now control the univers and twist reality"


im going to try tell me if it wil work

----------


## Snivellus

Ohh, so thats what I've been doing wrong! I haven't managed to have many lengthy LDs at all. Thanks for the tutorial, this will DEFINITELY help me a lot!

----------


## Oros

What shall i say?
You're a genius!  ::D:

----------


## Mini Man56

> ok ive got an idea so tell me if this would work
> 
> im in a room and i want to be able to do forced control without realy doing forced control so useing passive i open a door and there is this guy standing there and he says " he this room just go flooded with raditation that mutated you you can now control the univers and twist reality"
> 
> 
> im going to try tell me if it wil work



That might be harder than you think. Try going on the phone, and order a free superpill for instant delivery. And what do you know, it instantly arrives!

Now for my question. If I obtain superpowers or whatever, can I retain them? As in, will I be able to use them in the next dream w/o obtaining them again? Will they stay with me?

----------


## Jules2007

This has helped me so much, thanks to this tutorial, I had the best LD ever last night!

I've read your tutorial before, and tried the passive control technique, but I guess I was still forcing stuff. Anyway my LDs got really short like yours did and not very vivid, so last night I decided I was definitely going to take my time and not force anything if I got lucid. Luckily I did! I had so much fun, I even went through a mirror and ended up EXACTLY where I wanted to be. It was super vivid and so amazing, so thank you so much! I am never going to force anything/one to appear again.

----------


## shotbirds

I got a question about control so i figured I'd post it here instead of a new topic  :tongue2: 

I haven't tried this yet but was wondering if anyone else has. Say I'm having trouble flying and can't figure out how. Would it work by manifesting a 'magical pill' that induces flight help? (ofc 'eating' it then) I thought maybe this was a possible way to help other things also.

----------


## Mini Man56

> I got a question about control so i figured I'd post it here instead of a new topic 
> 
> I haven't tried this yet but was wondering if anyone else has. Say I'm having trouble flying and can't figure out how. Would it work by manifesting a 'magical pill' that induces flight help? (ofc 'eating' it then) I thought maybe this was a possible way to help other things also.



Sure, of course! Any reason is ok really, as long as you have one. It could be as simple as "I can fly because God says I can."

----------


## shotbirds

Ah okay. hopefully I LD soon, i wanna test that out. I also notice when i look back at my dreams I recall having trouble flying but also flying with great ease, but only when I don't think about. I also was flying through walls and didnt realize HOW I did it until I woke up, by thinking of myself as a 'spirit'. This also enabled me to seem invisible to DCs

----------


## Ceonsamea

Thanks, im going to try this. I have been using forced control and I usually don't succeed, but whenever I try too hard I wake up.

This should help, thanks again.

----------


## Draoi

Excellent!

----------


## Zakar

Note to self : there is no spoon!

Jokes aside, thanks for the good read, I learned a lot!  Can't wait to try these tactics out...time to get some ZZzs

----------


## Träumer

Thank you!! Tried this tonight and it helped a lot!  :smiley:

----------


## Ceonsamea

Used this on my first LD since reading the thread, helped alot, the LD was the most vivid and actually best control I have had yet, also longer than most of my LDs. 

Passive control for the win!

----------


## Joseph

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nm0tZ3bJP6Y





> Dream Control
> The Complete Tutorial
> 
> 
> Ever wanted to control your lucid dreams effortlessly and without having to worry about "accidentally" failing when you come apon a giant tirantula or something of the likes?
> Well have no fear! Read on and you'll learn the two basic methods of controlling your lucid dreams. You'll also learn the ups and the downs of each way and get in-depth explanations and examples of each.
> 
> Because being a god is alot easier when you know how  
> 
> ...

----------


## DanielWestman

Just felt this was such a great thread, so I'll disregard that it's old and write anyway.

I actually tried out both forced and passive dream control last night without knowing the difference! It was my second LD and I was sitting at a table in this room with some people.

I tried to summon this really hot girl under the table, forcing her to appear there, but it didn't work at all.

So I took a different approach and asked a person in the room to just send the hot girl in. I barely finished the sentence before I saw that beautiful girl walking into the room from a door that I hadn't seen before.

I woke up 10 seconds later, but I think I'm on the right way!
Next LD, I'll just take it slow and go with the flow.

----------


## jimmie

Hey guys,
It seems like the problem with direct control is exactly the rule system you described earlier, Billybob.  You feel that directly controlling your dream will destabilize it or make it less real, so it does.
    I find that if I just give my direction, then let my dream respond with it in it's own way, the dream stays vivid, and whatever I want to happen, happens.  If I really focus on any task, though, it fails, because the 'really focusing' takes over the completion of the task.  'Really focusing' would end if what I wanted to happen occured, and my dream is trying to do both, let/make me really focus, AND accomplish my goal.
     So my dream gives me a partial completion, and the two ideas fight for control.  Soon I'm just thinking about how I have to focus to get something done, and the implied failure of not focusing, and I fail.  I also wake up, because one failure leads to everything that can fail, including staying lucid and asleep.
     We make up our own rules and our own limitations.  So how can we get everything we want without failure cascading into a destroyed dream?
     We need to get rid of the idea of failure.  There is only success.  Sometimes immediate, sometimes not immediate, but always success.  You don't have to TRY HARD, because you won't ever fail.  There is no failure.
     What does it mean if what we want to happen doesn't happen?  Then you still believed you could fail, and so you did fail.
     I know, it sounds like an impossible task.  How does a person get rid of the idea of failure, and the power it holds over them?
     Associate the term failure with your successes.  Every time you succeed, think "Woo hoo!  I failed!  Totally awesome!"  Then the word starts getting associated with success, and when you start thinking about failing, you immediately go "Woo hoo, I failed!  Totally awesome!" and that feeling of success you've been associating with the word failure kicks in, and you succeed!  Yay us!
     This is just mind control.  If I tell you "don't think about a monkey", I'm still telling you about a monkey, so for an instant, you DO think about a monkey.  Do that in a dream, and a monkey will probably appear.  What's really nice is that you are fighting yourself here, trying to not think, and you step out of your own way, and create a monkey.  You've been given the easy word, monkey, and the difficult task, don't think about one (and the other easy task of think).
     If you say "don't think about so-n-so", and try hard to not think about them, in your dream, they will appear.  If you just ignore your own statement, you can disassociate the words with any literal interpretation, and nothing will happen.
     If you can disassociate the possibilities of failure with any result of failure, it will lose it's power.  If you can associate the feelings of failure and possible failure with complete success, such that thinking of failure only reminds you of success, you can remove failure's power.
     -Jim

----------


## Yume.no.ato

I understand these concepts and it explains why whenever I try to fly in a dream, the more messed up my surroundings become. 
But, lets say within my dream I'm not creative enough to think up a pill. 
Plus, isn't thinking up a pill almost like forced control? 

I'm afraid my problem when I try this will be differentiating between the two. 
I'll be thinking so hard of a reason to make myself fly without trying to fly, I'll remind myself again that its just a dream thats putty in my hands, which is what we're trying to forget in the first place. But thinking about NOT using forced control will remind me of forced control anyway... Is this a lose lose situation for some people? ;___;

Is there any way to simply fly when you want within a dream passively, yet not think up a scenario? Cause I just like to... up & go, whenever. The dream doesn't always get less vivid, though sometimes it does, and I'm afraid that if I keep doing this then like you said, my dreams will get shorter and fuzzier.

----------


## Steve.j.b

great thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cant wait to try it out 2nite... I do agree with the most of you, passive control has got to way better and more healthy....

thegnome54
thinking you have superpowers is what I have done before... i think its very justifiable!

----------


## superbat121

thats true about passive and control cuz when u try control it feels like your just imagining it and doesnt feel real

----------


## CountessRebecca

Ahh, things make so much more sense now! I believe I must be quite an ignorant lucid dreamer; I've never thought that there might be such a concept as Passive Control. What I tend to do is sort of 'conjure' things up and they always come, but in a really hazy way, all flickery and that. I am very thankful for this information!

----------


## Sabre2552

Ah, I'm glad I read this topic.  :smiley:   Things seem to become less vivid in my dreams when I try to manipulate it. I think this will really help what I'm experiencing, and hopefully I'll be able to better utilize the lucid dreams I have.

----------


## Sabre2552

> Ah, I'm glad I read this topic.   Things seem to become less vivid in my dreams when I try to manipulate it. I think this will really help what I'm experiencing, and hopefully I'll be able to better utilize the lucid dreams I have.



Well, your method worked like a charm in my lucid dream last night. I normally have trouble going to an entirely different dreamscape. However, in the spirit of passive control, I went up to a window next to a door, and remarked "What's with this paper here?" and when I grabbed the edge of the window, I was able to tear away the image as if it were paper, and reveal the dreamscape I wanted to go to. Then, I opened the door, and it opened to where I wanted to be.

I lost no lucidity in doing this, which is great! I'm so glad I learned of this technique, as now I am able to manipulate dreams as much as I want without losing lucidity or vividness, which is an excellent thing.

----------


## Conquer

Nice thread! I have the problem of using forced-control, my lucids have gotten ridiculously shorter. I need to work on passive control for sure. Thanks for sharing this.

----------


## Dream_King

Great thread. But if you think of the dream world as not only a seperate plane, but a plane where the world can be controlled with your mind you have the best of forced and passive control.

----------


## AngelZlayer

> Now for my question. If I obtain superpowers or whatever, can I retain them? As in, will I be able to use them in the next dream w/o obtaining them again? Will they stay with me?



I think that if you realize that you had superpowers in your previous lucid dream, and that you are still you, you should still have your superpowers as well [when you realize this], because your sub-conciouss now thinks that those superpowers are a part of you  :smiley: 

 :Question:  Now I have a question: if I think to myself "Wow! God just gave me his powers!", will I be able to do seemingly force control without making my dreams shorter and/or less vivid?
Will anything I do (everything from making an item appear to opening a hole in spacetime and travel through it) count as passive control as long as I do it with my "God-given powers"?

----------


## Mixedpotatoes

The question above did i wonder about too.

----------


## Cowmaster94

> How do I make a building disappear?
> 
> look away, look back.
> WHOA! God just decided that he didn't like that building's roof.



ROFLMAO LOL HAHAHAHAHHAHA  ::laughtillhurts::

----------


## Asem

great thread! i never concidered passive control. 

so anything that has an explaination can happen?
if i wanted to summon something, could i use a transmutation circle
to trick my mind into thinking summoning was logical?

how logical does it need to be?

----------


## The Cusp

> so anything that has an explaination can happen?
> if i wanted to summon something, could i use a transmutation circle
> to trick my mind into thinking summoning was logical?
> 
> how logical does it need to be?



Not anything that has an explanation, anything that has an established system.  And it needn't be logical at all, you just need to be familiar with it.

A transmutation circle will work fine.  But it will work better for someone who studies and practices those circles than for someone who's just heard them mentioned in passing.  The more familiar you are with that particular system, the more reliable it will be.

A deeply religious person will better be able to use divine intervention in dreams than someone who doesn't believe in God.

----------


## shroom

Most of the time if i just want something to happen it will. I dont even have to think about it, just to know that i want to fly results in flight. I dont know how this works tho.

----------


## Apopholis

Somebody might already have said this, but what if you passively convinced yourself that you were God?
To scale it down a bit, imagine this.
You "remembered" that you had been taking lessons from a powerful magician, etc. and as such you were able to use abilities akin to forced control, but without the negative effects, do you think this would work?

----------


## Quick Silver

So you have to give the brain a reason why it happened or just focus your attention off of it? Is that correct? because if so then I could not only get out of a bad dream but end up head first in a disired place just by giving a reason why it happened so quick and how? Say I'm running from Godzilla, but I'm going no where, could I think about a hospital and end up right in that hospital by telling myself I'm going to knock out and Spider-Man will save me because this is New York. would that work?

----------


## Quick Silver

> Not anything that has an explanation, anything that has an established system.  And it needn't be logical at all, you just need to be familiar with it.
> 
> A transmutation circle will work fine.  But it will work better for someone who studies and practices those circles than for someone who's just heard them mentioned in passing.  The more familiar you are with that particular system, the more reliable it will be.
> 
> A deeply religious person will better be able to use divine intervention in dreams than someone who doesn't believe in God.



If you're talking about bringing back a life in a dream, then forget it. But if you're talking about weapons, well... I'd hate to sound like a geek, but if I could, I'd use the laws of FMA if I had any paper and metalics around. Because I'd use the FMA weapon summonig to make a card captor staff out of the metallics, then I'd turn the paper into pokemon cards, and then use the staff to summon out some of my old freinds from my Pokemon yellow, Blue, Silver, and sapphire games. _Unleashing utter, complete, HELL!!_ ::evil::  Ahhh, good times.

... I have to become lucid sooner or later! I gotta try this!

----------


## jimmie

Well, if you could convince yourself well enough that God granted you powers, you wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING, per say, but only those things you really think God does and can do regularly.  The more unlikely you think God would use a power, the more unlikely you will be able to use it.  So make your source applicable to your goal.
     And the more familiar you are with any mechanism, the more connections you have in your mind about it, so the more resources the unconscious can draw from for your request.  I don't believe you can only dream about things you know, just that things you know can be dreamt more clearly.
      -Jim

----------


## Quick Silver

> Well, if you could convince yourself well enough that God granted you powers, you wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING, per say, but only those things you really think God does and can do regularly.  The more unlikely you think God would use a power, the more unlikely you will be able to use it.  So make your source applicable to your goal.
>      And the more familiar you are with any mechanism, the more connections you have in your mind about it, so the more resources the unconscious can draw from for your request.  I don't believe you can only dream about things you know, just that things you know can be dreamt more clearly.
>       -Jim



Well, I'm not here for a good time, or smite all of my enemies and be done with it. I'm here to understand them, stop some, as well as keep certain ones from killing people.

And I know, as a human, my limits under God. I'm Christian. So if dreams work off of how much detail my brain can support, and how logical it is, then I'm set because my brain was already doing psychic and what not. I just can't do it when I want because I'm not in control of myself, I just know how to do it, and what it feels like, otherwise I wouldn't be here... No offense intended. I really need someone who can dream share soon if I can't get this already.

----------


## WarBenifit156

Man your awesme. I haven't had a lucid dream yet, but I'm very confident that I will soon. It's been 3 or 4 days, but the first thing I'm going to try is 
to say "darn, I hope I don't wake up." So I can explore my dream, I'm not going to try to control anything yet. I'm going to simply see what my mind 
makes up. And maybe talk to some dream characters, but my only fear is if I go lucid and waking up. I know it's completely normal for beginners to
wake up, but at least I'll get a taste of what it feels like to be in a virtual world. I have one question, do you think that if you say "I will not wake up"
will work any better? and do you think that if I say "I will not wake up" when I'm exited will not wake me up? Thanks for the help.

----------


## mikeac

If you say you won't wake up, you most likely will think about your normal body and wake up unintentionally.

So basically, forced control is saying that something WILL happen, an effect without cause.  Passive control is a cause and effect.  It's easier for me to understand it that way.

----------


## jimbo227

i have a couple of questions about passive control, last night i had a lucid dream and my dream started to fade, i then used verbal comands such as more clarity now and increase lucidity, these worked and my dream was extremley vivid

but surley using verbal commands to stay in the dream is forced dream control? but if using verbal commands works for me then i should continue to do this?

another question is last night in my lucid dream i was in an empty room with 2 dogs, they were annoying me and i wanted them to leave the room, i was trying to force then out the room somehow but it didnt work 

by using passive control what should i have done differently to make the dogs leave the room?

thanks.

----------


## mikeac

passive control would be picking up a bone next to you and throwing it out the windows.

Using verbal commands are ok, but it is forced control.  Passive control is thinking of a reason for something to happen.

----------


## shiraniaori

I find quite the opposite. Forced control helps keep my dreams stable. Also, I purposefully dont think of my normal body, except fleeting thoughts, and its not hard to ignore your physical body when you have a world of imagination right in front of you.

Passive control just seems to be more natural for people, and therefore I think causes a stigma on forced control, which is totally unnecessary. Besides, as someone stated before, is it still passive control just to say "The reason I can do this is because its a dream." Maybe people tend to wake up because they equate dreams with sleep, and so it brings attention to their physical bodies? Who knows, I sure don't, I tend to think of dreaming as a world of it's own.

----------


## Laretta

My Lucid Dreams were usually passive (I find them boring because I should do Forced control for most of my dream goals - Transformation for example)

----------

