# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity >  >  Consistent WILDs through hard-work

## mongreloctopus

When I first started out on this forum, I accidentally happened upon WILDs a couple of times and became quickly convinced that this was THE way to lucid dream.  It's always nice accidentally 'waking up' in a dream, but I prefer to leave as little to chance as possible.  I was always confounded by various problems in trying to WILD without having woken up in the middle of the night--my true desire was to be able to WILD essentially anytime.  I eventually sort of gave up and moved on to other related pursuits, and then accidentally came upon a methodology that results in consistent, volitional WILDs.

The first step to success is understanding what you are ultimately aiming for, in terms of the condition of your body and mind at the moment of WILD.  To enter into a lucid dream from waking consciousness, your body must be physiologically asleep, while your consciousness is awake.  This is pretty obvious, but the question remains, "how does one reach this point?"

Sit some place relatively quiet, in a comfortable position, and focus all of your attention on the feeling of breath going into your nostrils, and then back out of your nostrils.  Think about nothing else.  If you are like I was when I first started this exercise, you will be unable to focus for even twenty seconds without some distracting thought, song lyric, memory, reminder, etc popping into your head.  This ability, to focus your mind, is the single most important skill for lucid dreaming, WILD, and probably life in general.  To succeed with my method, you have to practice this EVERY day for at least five minutes.  When you realize that your mind is straying simply stop thinking about whatever distraction your mind is on, and return to your nostrils.  This will probably be frustrating, and it will take a while to feel like you are making progress, but even being able to concentrate for a single minute without being distracted is quite a feat.  Once you are able to hold your concentration for one to two minutes, you are probably at the point where you can succeed at volitional WILD, although the stronger your concentration power, the easier it will be.

Once you have worked on this skill, it is time to put it into practice.  Consuming caffeine, alcohol, or certain prescription drugs within 24 hours of your attempt will make it nearly impossible.  THC is very unstable--it WILL decrease the time it takes for your body to fall asleep, but it can be very hard to maintain consciousness or concentration.  I recommend at least 24 hours of purity.  I haven't noticed much difference with foods, but I also try to avoid refined sugars as much as possible in general.

Lie down in a comfortable position.  I've only had luck on my back, although you may want to experiment with different positions.  It's important to be comfortable, but if you do this in your bed, you may find yourself falling asleep too easily (due to our sleep-bed-conditioning).  The following instructions are based on the concept of trance-meditation, so if you are familiar with that, do what you normally do.  Otherwise, relax all of your body sequentially.  There used to be a guide for 61 point relaxation on here, I don't know if it still exists, but this process is pretty self-explanatory: try to single out each muscle group and purposefully relax it, trying to remove as much muscle tone as is possible while conscious.  When you have done this, focus on your breathing for a while to further your relaxation.  Don't worry too much if you have irrelevant thoughts invading your mind, just make sure that you stay in control and don't get carried away with them.  This is why you practiced the breath awareness.

From this fully relaxed position, you need to begin tricking your body into falling asleep.  This can be done several ways.  Roll your eyes back in your head and keep them there, allow muscles to occasionally tick or spasm and try to feel yourself sinking backwards and downwards.  Eventually you'll begin to feel a kind of tickling energetic sensation in your extremities.  Try to focus on this sensation, and the feeling of it spreading up towards your torso.  This is the pre-cursor to sleep paralysis.

As this feeling spreads to your torso it will become more intense.  It may feel as if though your heart is beginning to race, and you may feel suddenly very hot or very cold, and it may feel as if though you cannot breathe.  All of this completely normal, and totally illusory.  These symptoms of oncoming sleep paralysis were what caused me so much difficulty initially.  I was dreadfully afraid of asphyxiating and would wake myself out of it every time.  Concentrate on the feeling of energy throughout your body, allow your heart to race (even though it's beating at its regular rate, or a bit faster due to your excitement), continue breathing normally even if it seems to feel labored, and notice the very strange, psychedelic closed-eye imagery that comes on.  It is common to lose it at this point and wake yourself out of it.  It is this stage that most people describe as 'vibrations'.  The vibrations can be felt as a kind of buzzing, or even shaking, or nothing at all.  It's also common to hear wooshing, intensely loud tones, or even voices.  The first few times it may be jarring, but you'll quickly get used to it, and probably even come to enjoy it.

The hardest part is actually getting beyond this point.  If you are able to maintain your composure through this stage, you may feel like your body is suddenly detached, weightless and floating slowly upwards.  This indicates that your body is asleep and you are very close to success.  Relax into this sensation--it is very pleasant.  It is similar to the feeling of floating in salt water.  It is very important to be relaxed at this stage, because it is quite unstable.  From here, one can do one of several things.  I am used to the rolling-over motion, so i 'feel' myself rolling to the side and consequently "out of my body".  The idea is basically to 'move' yourself into the dream from this floating kind of suspension.  This is a different kind of movement than with the physical body, because it does not involve muscles, but rather a kind of 'willing'.  I can't, unfortunately, describe this properly, because there don't exist the necessary words--however, if you have had lucid dreams before, it is the exact same kind of 'will' that is required to fly, shoot fireballs, or do any of the impossible things that you do in a lucid dream.

If done properly, you will find yourself in a dreamscape.  Be careful opening your eyes, as I typically find that that action causes my physical eyes to open as well, resulting in a blurry kind of double vision.  To fix this, I close my eyes and focus on the sensation of rubbing my hands together, exactly as I would to solidify a lucid dream.

I have recently been experimenting with so-called astral projection, using this technique exactly, but I have yet to come upon any conclusive results.  Much of this technique is similar to Robert Bruce's 'NEW' system, which I highly recommend to anyone who is able to get past the initial impression that he is another new-age charlatan dunderhead (he's not, actually).  He goes into far more detail about how to stimulate yourself while in trance to make it much easier to succeed.

If you have any questions, or want further clarification, I'd be happy to offer what knowledge I have.  Hope this helps someone!

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## Schmaven

I think this was the most helpful WILD tutorial I've read so far! I'm going to try it tonight.

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## Tara

That was a great tutorial. Amazing stuff. Thanks a lot.  :smiley:

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## Bechillbro48

Great tutorial, most WILD guides are incredibly vague and unclear on the specifics, but this one isn\'t - it\'s descriptive and offers some great explanations. Kudos.  ::bowdown::

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## i make it rain

Have you had success with this in a non-WBTB?

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## The Tao

I like the way this is wrote out. I would recommend you submit it to the Tutorials section (PM an Admin and ask).

This sounds like it has potential. I can reach the Vibrations easy enough, so I'm thinking this will be easy enough to accomplish.

With me, the Vibrational stage seems to be light vibrations, but with me, I feel like my whole body is spinning around in circles, and at times, falling through my bed.

At one point, I actually successfully WILDed through "falling". I was laying there, trying to wild, and felt myself falling, and "fell" between my bed and the wall, and without even thinking, crawled back into bed, and continued to try to wild. It was at that point, I realized what had actually happened. I already wilded. I tried to get out of bed, but just woke up  :Sad: .

So, to those trying to WILD, pay very careful attention during the Vibrations and Falling sensations and stuff like that, as it can be very easy to miss the cue like I did.

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## bcomp

Hey mongreloctopus, nice tut! It's really helpful. Just one question though, how long did you practice concentrating? A month? Week? Did you work on clearing your mind multiple times a day?

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## ZmillA

nice details.

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## Super FZL

FINALLY!

You have created what may be the best WILD guide I have ever read.  Thank you very, very much.  I will try this tonight and give you the credit if I succeed.

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## Robot_Butler

Great guide, octopus.  I like the part about hard work  ::D:

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## ChaybaChayba

Best WILD tutorial I've read so far. I'm of the same thought like you, that WILD is the way to enter lucid dreams, I practise WILD each night before going to sleep, and sometimes I take a nap for this purpose. WILDing might not be the easiest way to go, but in the end im confident it's the best way to go.. like you said, I also prefer to leave as little to chance as possible. Thanks a lot for the tutorial, very well written, and I'm sure it's going to help me out alot.

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## TalkingHead

> Roll your eyes back in your head and keep them there, allow muscles to occasionally tick or spasm and try to feel yourself sinking backwards and downwards. Eventually you'll begin to feel a kind of tickling energetic sensation in your extremities. Try to focus on this sensation, and the feeling of it spreading up towards your torso. This is the pre-cursor to sleep paralysis.
> .



 
Thanks Octopus.. I like Robert Bruce too. The part about keeping your eyes rolled back is interesting.  I think this could definitely help me stay awake while my body goes to sleep.  At what point though do you release your eyes?

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## Cn

I noticed a wall of text so I looked further down the page only to find very good comments! I'm going to read it and edit this post, it sounds promising.

EDIT: Looks good, I shall try it.

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## mongreloctopus

> Have you had success with this in a non-WBTB?



yeah, that was the impetus for doing it this way--i wanted to be able to WILD without being forced to go through WBTB.  WBTB makes it easier in a sense, because your body is already prepared to sleep almost immediately, and if you can keep your mind awake, it'll shorten the process by a hundred-fold.  however, it is completely possible to WILD at literally any time.  the key to this is a high enough level of concentration ability so that you can relax your body to the necessary level and subsequently put it to sleep.  i will add, also, that in this pursuit, patience could not be more valuable--i have sometimes been lying in the same position for close to an hour before getting to the necessary level of relaxation...and sometimes it'll happen in under ten minutes.  it all depends on what i ate and when i ate it, how much exercise i've been getting recently, and so forth.





> Hey mongreloctopus, nice tut! It's really helpful. Just one question though, how long did you practice concentrating? A month? Week? Did you work on clearing your mind multiple times a day?



before actually beginning to attempt this particular way to WILD i had gotten very superficially into zazen, from which i adapted the concentration practice.  it had occurred to me on many occasions that my ability to concentrate was horrendous, and every time i'd sit for a few minutes just trying to focus only on my breathing i would immediately become distracted.  so, to answer your question, i had been doing this kind of practice probably for about a year or so off and on before i really got serious about it (i.e. doing it at least once a day for 10-20 minutes).  before successfully WILDing like this i probably had been doing it everyday for about 3 weeks.  once you set your mind (hah) to conditioning your mind to focus and concentrate, it goes really quickly.  all it takes is a real commitment.

aside from the times i sit down to specifically work on breath awareness, i also try, throughout the day, to avoid partaking in any internal monologue, dialog,  day-dreaming, fantastication, etc.  this is really difficult, and i'm still terrible at it, but have gotten to the point where i at least notice i'm doing it.

you can easily come up with your own exercises for focusing your mind.  just resolve to be in control of your mind, and the rest will sort of present itself to you.

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## mongreloctopus

> Thanks Octopus.. I like Robert Bruce too. The part about keeping your eyes rolled back is interesting.  I think this could definitely help me stay awake while my body goes to sleep.  At what point though do you release your eyes?



i basically try to position myself as much as possible as if through i were already asleep, mimicking as much of it as i can.  as i fall asleep, i've often noticed that at a certain point when hypnagogic imagery is quite intense, that my eyes have rolled back somewhat.  it's hard to find a kind of natural feeling balance where you're not forcing them uncomfortably, but i will say that at first it feels kind of weird to do this without it happening of its own accord.  if you're doing it right, you'll soon forget that you did it, and your attention will be elsewhere.

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## Super FZL

I really want to try this...just 2 more hours.

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## Tara

I just read this yesterday and had a WILD this morning. My first WILD! I'm so happy.  :smiley:

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## mongreloctopus

> I just read this yesterday and had a WILD this morning. My first WILD! I'm so happy.



that is awesome!  pretty amazing feeling, eh?

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## Cn

Quickly before I go to bed, how DO you roll your eyes back into your head? Do you keep your eyes closed and just look up as high as you can? That seems to hurt for me...

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## mongreloctopus

> Quickly before I go to bed, how DO you roll your eyes back into your head? Do you keep your eyes closed and just look up as high as you can? That seems to hurt for me...



yeah.  don't do it to the point where it hurts.  don't force it, just kind of look upwards.  it'll happen on it's own anyway, and isn't such a huge part of the hold procedure...just an additional thing you can do to make your body fall asleep.  if it's distracting, i wouldn't bother with it--physical relaxation is the most important aspect.

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## Super FZL

How long does this whole process take?

I went 15 mins last night, thought I had it, and rolled out too early.

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## Guru

Thanks a lot!!!! I'll try it tonight. Did you practice any kind of meditation before attempting that? If so please state it.

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## Toledous

I tried it, felt my body tingling, then for some reason I had to swallow really bad, so I did, and that threw off the cycle. It was really hard for me to focus on dreaming when I had the window open blowing wind in and moving the blinds and the fan going, but its too hot to be without them.

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## ChaybaChayba

earplugs! I bought them, because I share a room with this guy who snores like a pig, it helps alot ^^

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## i make it rain

I had a WILD last night while pretty much doing your technique. It was right after I woke up from a dream. I didn't move so I was really close to falling back asleep. I was trying this other technique and it wasn't working so I did this. I would feel rushes of me getting close to sleep every few seconds I did this meditation. It worked very quickly and I had a pretty vivid WILD. Thanks.

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## Futura

Thanks so much for the help! im trying this tonight.

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## randomdreamer

this is a very nice tutorial i have one question though did you get close in your "true desire to be able to WILD essentially anytime" I mean i know that you can't just be standing there in the middle of a burger king and say 'hey i feel like beating up that creapy king guy' and wild in the ball pit but when you use your technique like how often do you use it, whats your success rate, those kinds of things

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## randomdreamer

> Thanks so much for the help! im trying this tonight.



it just occured to me that this is a tutorial about hard work and practicing over a period of time how are you going to try it tonight. lol

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## Futura

Well i will try it everynight until i get it

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## Exhalent

This guide is amazing, there is detail. I am going to try this tonight. If this works, then it will be my first WILD.

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## mongreloctopus

> this is a very nice tutorial i have one question though did you get close in your "true desire to be able to WILD essentially anytime" I mean i know that you can't just be standing there in the middle of a burger king and say 'hey i feel like beating up that creapy king guy' and wild in the ball pit but when you use your technique like how often do you use it, whats your success rate, those kinds of things




i had heard in the past that it wasn't really possible to WILD unless you had already had a few sleep cycles.  this was somewhat corroborated by what i had read about physiological sleep--that initially you go into a period of deep, dreamless sleep.  it was also corroborated by the fact that everyone always talks about WILDs in a WBTB context.  but i found this to be unacceptable, and wanted to be able to just lie down at any time of day, and be able to WILD, and it turns out it's very possible.  WBTB is a huge advantage, because you don't have to work hard at the relaxation--it's already there for you.  this method, with enough patience and dedication, will yield a near 100&#37; success rate.  there are times when i don't succeed, but that is generally because i have accidentally fallen asleep, or i am interrupted by someone/something.  sometimes it can take up to two hours of lying in one place to actually get to the level of relaxation needed, but that it is typically the worst-case scenario.

i do this as much as i possibly can, because i am also experimenting with the possibilities of astral projection, which apparently use almost exactly the same technique.  some days i have too much going on in 'real' life, and am unable to...but i typically combine it in with my daily meditation practice (i.e. 10-20 minutes breath awareness, 30 minutes body awareness, body relaxation + breath awareness for as long as necessary, WILD).

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## Njd1990

I wish I had found this guide earlier. I was attempting to WILD last night, and I had all these sensations, felt like I was going to sufficate so I woke myself up, then I tried again and was going deeper but I was really unsure what to expect next so I woke up once again, heh. I kept getting relaxed and my eyes would slip open unintentionally, that was odd.

I'm going to try again tonight now that I have some knowledge on it  ::D: 

By the way, is it normal to start feeling sensations early on? I'd estimate I start getting them after 5 minutes, 10 tops.

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## mongreloctopus

> By the way, is it normal to start feeling sensations early on? I'd estimate I start getting them after 5 minutes, 10 tops.



yup, some people are lucky this way.  it happens to me really fast occasionally as well...usually depends on how fatigued my body is.  after a day of long/intense muay thai conditioning i can usually do it much faster.

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## bobbby

hey last night i tryed to wild, and i got distracted like im not supposed to but when i realize what i was supposed to do i felt all weird and i put my finger through my hand but then i just woke myself up... what do i do to get past this point?

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## DreamChaser

Hi,
I recently had a WILD straight from going to bed. It took a few tries, but I got there.
I must say be warned..I had a scary false awakening to start my Lucid..and I kept looking at my alarm clock which had red digits or was not there at all. (It has blue digits).
This led me to get up and out of the room to a new place to continue a long lucid.
Basically i want to try this procedure too, as regular WILDs are not that regular. Hehe.

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## st_nick5

> I wish I had found this guide earlier. I was attempting to WILD last night, and I had all these sensations, felt like I was going to sufficate so I woke myself up, then I tried again and was going deeper but I was really unsure what to expect next so I woke up once again, heh. I kept getting relaxed and my eyes would slip open unintentionally, that was odd.
> 
> I'm going to try again tonight now that I have some knowledge on it 
> 
> By the way, is it normal to start feeling sensations early on? I'd estimate I start getting them after 5 minutes, 10 tops.



When I try to WILD, I use the reverse-blinking method and I get vibrations very quickly. Quick as in, about 20-30 seconds. Only gotten HI once or twice though, mainly because the first time I had this guy from some horror film whispering in my ear telling me how he was going to murder me, and the second time it was just screaming. Scared to get HI now ^^

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## burton_bean

I tried this last night for the first time and it actually worked too!  ::banana::  Unfortunately the moment I stepped into my dream my father was finding my stash (in my dream) and it frightened me, and I came back to my room in waking life. Maybe next time I try this it will be a peaceful scene  :Oops:

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## Jumbli

Great article. I will make a point of re-reading this a few times to fix it in my mind. 

I am just starting to get back in to lucid dreaming. I have only ever had one WILD and loved it!!!

Rather than roll out of my body, I found the images in my mind formed a detailed landscape. I then slowly felt the sensation of the bed touching my body entirely disappear as it was replaced by the sensation of being in my dream landscape. Just the feeling of that transition between the real and dream world was fantastic.

I am planning to work on this most days now. I find the concentration and getting to alternating sensations of tingling, feeling really heavy then floating and distorting etc all easy enough but that's where I seem to get stuck for ages. Fortunately I enjoy the feeling. Reading your other posts it sounds like I have been giving up too quickly. I will follow your advice of rolling my eyes back in my head also.

Thanks for the article  :smiley:

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## Denny22

This seems like a pretty great tutorial. Thanks very much.

I'm very new to all this and while doing WILD I've yet to get over the hump and just relax.  :Sad: 

I'll try this tonight.

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## DreamChaser

Here's a tip of how to get an idea of the roll over feeling Octopus was trying to describe.
If you are sitting at your PC or laptop, stay completely still for this exercise.
Now to start with your hands and arms should be still too (frozen).
Look at you hand or arm and remember what it looks like. Close your eyes and without moving...picture your hand or arm moving (anyway you choose) up and down for example, but don't actually move it. 
Keep looking at your hand and arm off and on if you can't picture it at first and get the mental feeling and image in your head of it moving. It feels kinda cool when you get it right.
Once you feel you have this accomplished, do this....
Sit completely still in your chair again...and imagine in the same way your whole upper torso twisting at the hip to the side (say at 90 degrees (half twist)).
Now twist in your mind and don't move. These are the same visuals you use at the start of dreams to move about.
If you can accomplish this...then try in bed tonite when the time arises to roll into your dream.
Hope this aids Octopus' tut. Let me know if it helped.

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## mongreloctopus

> Here's a tip of how to get an idea of the roll over feeling Octopus was trying to describe.
> If you are sitting at your PC or laptop, stay completely still for this exercise.
> Now to start with your hands and arms should be still too (frozen).
> Look at you hand or arm and remember what it looks like. Close your eyes and without moving...picture your hand or arm moving (anyway you choose) up and down for example, but don't actually move it. 
> Keep looking at your hand and arm off and on if you can't picture it at first and get the mental feeling and image in your head of it moving. It feels kinda cool when you get it right.
> Once you feel you have this accomplished, do this....
> Sit completely still in your chair again...and imagine in the same way your whole upper torso twisting at the hip to the side (say at 90 degrees (half twist)).
> Now twist in your mind and don't move. These are the same visuals you use at the start of dreams to move about.
> If you can accomplish this...then try in bed tonite when the time arises to roll into your dream.
> Hope this aids Octopus' tut. Let me know if it helped.




nice, excellent tip.

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## PawneeWarrior

> this is a very nice tutorial i have one question though did you get close in your "true desire to be able to WILD essentially anytime" I mean i know that you can't just be standing there in the middle of a burger king and say 'hey i feel like beating up that creapy king guy' and *wild in the ball pit but when you use your technique* like how often do you use it, whats your success rate, those kinds of things



BWHAAHAHHAHHA!!!!  ::laughhard::

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## archdreamer

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ead.php?t=8534

Is this the 61-point relaxation technique you refer to? (It's a good read, regardless)

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## Pastulio_

Very well written. I'm gonna try to have my first WILD tonight (again...)

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## Hamell

I've been working on WILDing after reading this guide about a week ago. Right now I can get to the point where I feel the tingling in my hands and legs as well as an out of body sort of feeling, but it hasn't gotten past this point. One of the issues is that when I roll my eyes in the back of my head, or even look up, they start twitching.. a lot. I can handle this feeling for a few minutes, and sink deeper into SP, but at some point it just becomes too distracting and I have to open my eyes. I'm quite happy with my progress so far, but does anyone have any suggestions to help counter this problem?

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## mongreloctopus

> I've been working on WILDing after reading this guide about a week ago. Right now I can get to the point where I feel the tingling in my hands and legs as well as an out of body sort of feeling, but it hasn't gotten past this point. One of the issues is that when I roll my eyes in the back of my head, or even look up, they start twitching.. a lot. I can handle this feeling for a few minutes, and sink deeper into SP, but at some point it just becomes too distracting and I have to open my eyes. I'm quite happy with my progress so far, but does anyone have any suggestions to help counter this problem?



this is common, and happens to me as well.  in one place i've read that it is the beginning of REM, but i'm not sure whether or not that is true.  in any event, it seems like if you 'let' it happen instead of fighting against it, you'll usually stop noticing it.  when the eye movement begins you are nearing the ejection point.  pretty much in every situation where you are encountering difficulty, the answer is to relax (unless the problem is that you keep falling asleep!)

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## Hamell

Yeah I too considered the possiblity of it being the beginning of REM, but I think it might be a muscular thing instead. In which case, relaxing and not trying too hard will probably do the trick. Thanks!

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## Jumbli

I am trying this every day too. I keep getting to a point where my heart feels like it is beating faster and harder, I feel hot and my breathing becomes deeper. I feel as though I am on the brink and I am not worried about the feeling and try to relax. I think 1 of 2 things may be stopping me progressing and would appreciate your advice:

1) The heavy breathing may be my subconscious way of fighting off going in to full SP. I.e. I am forcing myself to get more oxygen and waking myself back up.

Or 

2) I am worrying that my breathing is going to cause me to fail and therefore thinking too much about my breathing and convincing myself that it's not going to work.

Should I try to slow my breathing or make it more shallow? This would take quite a bit of concious effort. Or is it OK for me to just go with it and allow my breath to become as heavy as it wants to?

Thanks  :smiley:

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## mongreloctopus

> I am trying this every day too. I keep getting to a point where my heart feels like it is beating faster and harder, I feel hot and my breathing becomes deeper. I feel as though I am on the brink and I am not worried about the feeling and try to relax. I think 1 of 2 things may be stopping me progressing and would appreciate your advice:
> 
> 1) The heavy breathing may be my subconscious way of fighting off going in to full SP. I.e. I am forcing myself to get more oxygen and waking myself back up.
> 
> Or 
> 
> 2) I am worrying that my breathing is going to cause me to fail and therefore thinking too much about my breathing and convincing myself that it's not going to work.
> 
> Should I try to slow my breathing or make it more shallow? This would take quite a bit of concious effort. Or is it OK for me to just go with it and allow my breath to become as heavy as it wants to?
> ...



this was the main obstacle for myself as well--the funny thing about it, is that it's totally an illusion.  it's the same as the heatbeat.  physically, nothing is changing--your heart feels like it's pounding away quickly, but it's going at the same speed; and your breathing will feel strange or labored, but it's no different either.  the only way i was able to get beyond this point was by focusing my attention on the sleep paralysis sensations and allowing the breathing to continue automatically.  it's not easy, and i only managed to start succeeding after a lot of the aforementioned concentration practice.

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## Jumbli

Thanks for replying. You have put my mind at rest. I look forward to seeing what happens tomorrow.  :smiley:

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## Jumbli

I had another attempt at this today. I should mention that I am doing WBTB stuff for DILDs in the morning and then attempting WILDs after a full 8 hours sleep so I am making it more difficult for myself.

Anyway, I followed your advise and it did help. What came to mind was that I had been controlling my breathing up to the point where the heavy breathing starts, but surely your subconscious needs to take total control over your breathing as you enter a dream, so I think the laboured or heavy feeling is because your waking and subconscious minds are both wanting to do the job of breathing for you. Anyway, I just stopped thinking about my breathing and thought about the sensation of air passing through my nose instead. 

With this frame of mind it wasn't uncomfortable at all. I had loads of various sensations and floating feelings but a total absence of any imagery. This may be because I had already had a full nights sleep.

I know you can do this any time of day, but while I am learning do you think I will have to give up my DILD work and use my WBTB for WILDS until I get them working, or is it realistic for me to go for the WILDS during the day straight away?

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## mongreloctopus

> is it realistic for me to go for the WILDS during the day straight away?



it is absolutely possible, and that was my primary goal for doing all of this.  i will say, however, that it oftentimes requires a much longer session...the benefit of WBTB is that your body is already prepped for sleep.  doing it in the middle of the day requires that you are able to relax your physical body very effectively while maintaining consciousness.  that's where the "hard work" comes in.  if you're interested in pursuing it, i can post the daily exercises i do to this end.

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## Jumbli

Yes, I would be interested in seeing your daily exercises. I am planning to invest plenty of time in WILDs and am not put off by the hard work.

Thanks.

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## z1nk666

I can't make it past the illusion of suffocating! ::damnit::   Also how long is that supposed to last?


Great guide though.

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## archdreamer

> it is absolutely possible, and that was my primary goal for doing all of this.  i will say, however, that it oftentimes requires a much longer session...the benefit of WBTB is that your body is already prepped for sleep.  doing it in the middle of the day requires that you are able to relax your physical body very effectively while maintaining consciousness.  that's where the "hard work" comes in.  if you're interested in pursuing it, i can post the daily exercises i do to this end.



Please do post this. I'd be very interested to read it.

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## yaymancheese

thanks alot, Im so mad at myself that i didnt read this earlier because last night while going to sleep layed still on my back and started to feel heavy and tingling, then I took a piss (not in bed, in the toilet ::D: ) If I had read this I woulda held it in till morning.

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## yaymancheese

I tried this and it  went pretty weirdly, I was wondering if you could give me some answers. I was very still and relaxed and i rolled back my eyes, after a while I began to feel weird tickling on my feet and legs, but never felt it rose. I also never felt the vibrations or the imagery. all of a sudden My body goes sorta stiff and my eyelids fade to an even darker shade of black that looked more like empty space than the back of eyelids. I was pretty convinced that my body was asleep, except I could still feel that i was using muscles to roll my eyes back and I knew if I moved or did anything it would happen in real life. eventually I woke up due to the fact that someone had opened the door and turned the tv on. This is the weirdest part, after that, I got up and went to my mom telling her that i have been trying to go to sleep for an hour but could not. And even though I thought I was awake the whole time, my mom said that when she was looking for me, she checked in the bedroom and saw me sitting up mumbling noises to myself, even though I do not remember this at all and i do not remember falling asleep. She said she asked me if I was awake and I kept mumbling to myself. I was wondering if you know why this happened?

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## RandomUN

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but, I lay down and I start to concentrate on my breathing and i just let my body sink and when it goes all numb I do feel sensations but very little, no vibrations or anything though. I keep swallowing though, I cant help it.. I do try to resist it but sometimes it feels like i swallow on accident. Would that be a distraction? 

After my body is all relaxed am I supposed to concentrate on my breathing and just rest like I'm trying to fall asleep?

Basically what I need to know is what to do after my body is numb? I'm not sure if i'm in full SP either, but i try not to really concentrate on that.

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## z1nk666

> I keep swallowing though, I cant help it.. I do try to resist it but sometimes it feels like i swallow on accident.



  Me too, I don't get it.

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## RandomUN

Yeah, plus sometimes saliva would just keep coming, I don't wont to drool all over myself  ::embarrassed::  I'm not hungry or anything..

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## mongreloctopus

> I can't make it past the illusion of suffocating!  Also how long is that supposed to last?



it's not so much a matter of how long it will last, but rather what you do, psychologically, to overcome it.  it's not enough to just know intellectually that it's an illusion if your body is still frightened.  practice by putting yourself in the state where you start to feel like your breathing is all wacky, and then try to feel yourself breathing without controlling your breaths.  if you can successfully 'watch' your breathing without interfering, try to keep relaxing into the SP feelings while doing this.  the ultimate goal is totally convince yourself that you are in fact breathing even though it doesn't seem like it...after all, it's what you do every single night.





> I was wondering if you know why this happened?



it's pretty common when your body is in sleep paralysis, that if you try to speak it'll sound like mumbling.  i think it's somewhat unusual to be sitting up though.  






> I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but, I lay down and I start to concentrate on my breathing and i just let my body sink and when it goes all numb I do feel sensations but very little, no vibrations or anything though. I keep swallowing though, I cant help it.. I do try to resist it but sometimes it feels like i swallow on accident. Would that be a distraction? 
> 
> After my body is all relaxed am I supposed to concentrate on my breathing and just rest like I'm trying to fall asleep?
> 
> Basically what I need to know is what to do after my body is numb? I'm not sure if i'm in full SP either, but i try not to really concentrate on that.



it is a safe bet that any bodily feelings you have while doing this are not what you think they are.  for instance, it is common to feel like your heart is pounding, or about to explode; or for it to feel like the air you are breathing has the same consistency as molasses; or that there is an uncomfortable build up of saliva in your throat....(incidentally, these feelings tend coincide with the traditional locations of the chakras)  the best possible thing you can do in any of these situations is relax--don't ignore the sensation, and don't become obsessed with it...simply feel it and move on with the process.  i know it is easier said than done, but that's why this requires the hard work.

when your body feels numb, it means that you are in at least a light trance, but you'll notice that if you try to move a limb, you can easily do so.  when SP occurs, it will not be possible to move your body.  you may in some cases feel two bodies, one that is paralyzed and one that is kind of floating in the same spot as your physical body.  it's hard to describe exactly what will happen, because the sensations are different for everyone.  the biggest thing to remember is that you want your body to fall asleep--it won't be possible if you are over-analyzing everything that you are feeling.  you have to work on the concentration exercises so that you can anchor yourself to the objective without getting caught up in the strange sensations.  

and so, here is my daily exercise regimen:

1.  stretching:  you can do it however you want, but i start by standing up and beginning at the top of my body--neck, shoulders, arms, chest, back, abs, obliques, hips, hamstrings.  i sit down to continue stretching my groin, quads, gluts, calfs, feet.

2.  sit comfortably:  i use my couch because it has a nice solid back and an ottoman upon which i can put my feet.  i usually rest my hands on my thighs, but it's just a matter of finding a comfortable position in which you are not used to falling asleep.

3.  concentration practice: i choose one of two types that i have gotten accustomed to--breath awareness and spot awareness.  the former consists of attempting to pay attention only to the feeling of breath in my nostrils--i don't follow it into my body.  i try to pay attention to the sensation of the air passing by the tiny hairs in my nose, and the outer rim of my nostrils.  i try to notice everything about it i possibly can.  the latter consists of choosing a mark on the wall in front of me that i will focus all of my attention upon.  it's important to keep a soft focus and not strain your eyes.  if i find my eyes wandering, i reset them.  i try to envision the spot at which i'm staring as if it took up my entire field of vision.  i do only one of these exercises in each session, and i typically choose based on what seems less boring to me at the time.  i always choose an amount of time that i will be doing this beforehand, and absolutely must stick to it.  i set a timer and do not stop until it goes off.  if you feel bored or can't concentrate at all anymore, do not stop--you must train your will power.  i started with ten minutes, and am now doing twenty minutes.

4: body awareness: without having moved from the original position i begin moving my awareness throughout my body.  i begin with one foot and move it up through my leg to my waist, and then begin at the other foot and repeat.  i then move up from my pelvis (avoid genitalia or you may end up too distracted to continue) through my abdominal region, through my chest to the base of my neck.  i then start with one hand and move up through my arm to the shoulder and switch to the other hand and repeat.  i then move up through my neck, face and to the top of my head.  from here there are countless exercises you can make up yourself and do--i spend about thirty minutes on the body awareness section.  (in case it's unclear, what i mean by moving awareness, is to attempt move all of your attention into a single part of your body.  for example, i would attempt to feel and be conscious only of what my left thumb is feeling.  i would try, in a way, to become embodied in my thumb, focusing my awareness to the total exclusion of all else.  the breath awareness is a good prelude to this, because it is the kind of focus you need [although i find the body awareness to be a hundred times easier, and more enjoyable]).

5. trance: this portion can be done on its own.  i usually combine all of them because it is most convenient for my schedule, and because the previous exercises have already put my body in a relaxed state.  however, this particular exercise is very unpredictable in terms of length of duration.  if you are doing this one separate from the others, you need to stretch beforehand, do about ten minutes of breath awareness, and then go through one sweep of body awareness focusing on relaxing each part of your body into which you move your awareness.    if you are doing all of these at once, you can just jump right in--in the same comfortable position on the couch (note: i have kept my eyes open until this exercise.  if you find yourself using your eyes to follow your body awareness exercise, you should close them for that.  you don't want to handicap yourself with visual cues) i try to 'let go' of the feelings of my physical body.  the easiest way i can do this, is by imagining the same sensation of floating you might have if you were in a pool holding your breath floating face down like you're dead.  (i find, actually, that a lot of the feelings i use to do this are the ones i associate with dying in a dream)  this exercise is tricky for a few reasons.  the first is that if you're doing it right, your mind is going to want to fall asleep with your body.  this means that you will probably start experiencing all sorts of hypnotic hypnagogic imagery that will distract you from your purpose and possibly cause you to fall asleep.  it may also mean that you will notice this, and then forcefully fight back to maintain consciousness.  this will stop you from moving beyond the stage that you are in.  the more you do this exercise, the easier and faster you will enter trance states.  there is a huge continuum of level of trance and you will become aware of how deeply you go into it.  i do not time this exercise, but decide rather arbitrarily when it will end.  if i notice that i have dozed off and suddenly "jerked" awake, i will usually call it quits because i am too tired mentally to continue, and will just continue to fall asleep.  i do not do this exercise when i could fall asleep, or i probably will.  it's kind of misleading to call it exercise, since it's sort of the reverse, but what i try to get out of it is a familiarity with moving into the state of being in which i don't feel my physical body, and instead feel what will become my dream body.  it is this second body that you will have to direct to exit your physical body, and i have the most difficulty with it.  if i am not physically relaxed enough, when i try to separate the two bodies, i will begin to tense muscles and that makes it impossible to continue.  i then usually will have to start the cycle over.

exercises 1-4 should be done at least once a day at a time when you are fully awake.  i like to do them after i wake up in the morning, as i tend to get up quite early, thanks to dream recall/dream awareness.  exercise 5 can be done as often as you like, and can be used as actual WILD attempts.  a few additional pieces of advice--i describe some of the sensations that i encounter while doing this, but it's not a good idea to think about this procedure in terms of what you WILL encounter.  it's different for everyone, and focusing on your expectations of the goal will result in failure.  relax in the moment and don't worry about whether you're doing it right or not.  if you are relaxed and lucid, that's enough.  another good tip for increasing your powers of concentration--act at all times as if though you are in a dream (not that you could be dreaming, but that you actually are) and must remain lucid.  try to avoid falling into the autopilot mode we live most of our lives in, and actually be aware of everything you are doing--be aware of your body and how it is moving, of your environment around you, and try to avoid the incessant monologues we use to maintain our version of reality.  the more aware you become of yourself and your environment, the more aware you will be while dreaming, which will boost your dream recall and your ability to accidentally become lucid.  it will also make it easier to feel your dream body while awake and stop your internal monologue while in trance.

if any of this is unclear, or you want further explanation, i am happy to help as always.

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## Wesley_Gray

Just wanted to let you know that you've written a great tutorial and I'm going to keep trying it out.  I got pretty far last night.  My heart was beating faster and my body heated up (well, to my mind), and of course I felt the tingling sensations.  I couldn't get further though, I think I was just too awake.  Anyways, I'll let you know how it goes.

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## SmoothGroove

Brilliant guide. On my first attempt my "second body" began to float above my physical body, I could actually feel my physical body below me  ::D: .

I couldn't manage to "roll out" of my physical confines though, and I wasn't sure i'd be able to either because although I felt sleepy, i didn't feel "asleep".

Giving it another go tonight.  :Oops: 

Keep up the good work.  ::D:

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## Casyle

Two questions....

While doing the stages like concentrating on breathing, are you constantly telling yourself that you're going to be lucid?  Or do you just concentrate fully on breathing, and the following stages?

Second, will this work by focusing on breathing through the mouth?  I've got a TON of allergies, and my nose is usually too plugged to breath through comfortably.


I really hope I can do this...  I'm disabled so I have to take morphine for pain, as well as 4 vitamins in the morning to get me the basic vitamins I'm not getting through this diet.

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## mongreloctopus

> Two questions....
> 
> While doing the stages like concentrating on breathing, are you constantly telling yourself that you're going to be lucid?  Or do you just concentrate fully on breathing, and the following stages?
> 
> Second, will this work by focusing on breathing through the mouth?  I've got a TON of allergies, and my nose is usually too plugged to breath through comfortably.
> 
> 
> I really hope I can do this...  I'm disabled so I have to take morphine for pain, as well as 4 vitamins in the morning to get me the basic vitamins I'm not getting through this diet.



the breath concentration is simply to practice concentration itself--no thoughts of dreaming, lucidity or anything else...just focusing completely on one thing (breath is an easy choice because you always have it with you).

you can breathe through your mouth if you want--you can really choose or make up any kind of concentration practice.  the idea is just to train yourself to be able to stop distracting thoughts before they even occur.  there is a form of meditation called omphaloskepsis in which one contemplates the navel.  i haven't tried it, but whatever works, works.

as for the morphine, i have read anecdotes that seem to indicate that opiates (and morphine in particular) are conducive to out-of-body experiences.  from my own experimentation, i have found that cannabis results in a 'loosening' of the dream body, making it far easier to project, particularly when ingested.  from my experiences with opiates, i would say that they have a huge effect on dreaming and i'm sure you can come up with some useful experiments as long as you are taking it anyway.  sylvan muldoon, one of the first 'mainstream' "astral projectors" was under the impression that it is easier to project the double when the physical body was injured or ill, so take that for what it's worth.  if you follow the exercises and procedures prescribed, you should have no problem.

a note in general: some of you may have had initial success with the methods i wrote about, and that is awesome.  but beware--the most likely situation is that your enthusiasm caused uninentional projection.  this method does and will work, but it really does take a lot of hard work, and more than that, it takes time and patience.  everyone is different, but it took me over a year of constant practice to actually succeed at doing this on command (and i still fail sometimes).  don't get discouraged and don't let this be the extent of your dreaming practice, because regular dreams and regular lucid dreams are fun too.  cheers.

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## Casyle

Thanks a ton!  

I'll have to try and find that 61 point exercise.  The link in one of these threads just leads to a "this image no longer exists" or some such page.  So, until then, I'm stuck trying to get each leg and arm to relax.  Never been good at that haha.  

Gotta say, I need to get over this.  Having a horrible time keeping my eye up.  I keep accidently loosening my eyelids, sometimes partially opening 'em, and, eventually, my eye seems to gradually come back down.  D'oh! 

Can't wait to try again tonight.

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## mongreloctopus

> Thanks a ton!  
> 
> Gotta say, I need to get over this.  Having a horrible time keeping my eye up.  I keep accidently loosening my eyelids, sometimes partially opening 'em, and, eventually, my eye seems to gradually come back down.  D'oh! 
> 
> Can't wait to try again tonight.



that happens to me a lot as well (partially opening my eyes occasionally).  my solution, if i'm not in total darkness, is to wear a comfortable eye mask like they give you on airplanes.

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## Rgb525

Mongreloctopus.  How successful are you at these WILDs?  How many have you had?

You sound very skilled.

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## Mew151

> , I practise WILD each night before going to sleep, and sometimes I take a nap for this purpose.



Make sure you don't get too addicted to sleeping or you'll be unhealthy. (read this on wikipedia)

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## gsoldi

After "rolling out" of your body, how do you enter the dream? Should i Just visualize what i want it to be and it will appear?

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## mongreloctopus

It's hard to say how successful I am...When I start the process, I can usually tell right off the bat if it's going to happen or not.  If I then follow through, my success rate is probably .8-.9; failures resulting typically from unforeseen interruptions.  Sometimes, though, I won't have success until two-three hours after beginning my initial attempt, although this is somewhat rare.  

I have absolutely no idea how many of these I have had--I stopped keeping track of the number of my lucid dreams and WILDs about a year ago, but recently I have had to cut back pretty significantly due to a new work/school/kickboxing schedule.  I really only have time on the weekends these days, and the rest of the time I just do the exercises.  





> After "rolling out" of your body, how do you enter the dream? Should i Just visualize what i want it to be and it will appear?



It's admittedly quite difficult to describe, but here goes anyway: when you feel that you are 'outside' of your body, you have to feel your dream body as much as possible.  It is the same kind of 'intent' that is used in lucid dreams to make changes to the dream.  It's kind of expectation combined with volitional perception, as if though you are firmly convinced that something is taking place (even though it's not necessarily).  With this specific kind of will, you will yourself into perceiving a dreamscape.  The easiest choice is a real location that you are familiar with, so you can easily envision it.  In the beginning of my WILDing adventures I used to feel my body floating up above my physical body, and then I would imagine myself 'jumping' into a dream (be careful not to move your physical body!), and then I would actually 'land' on the floor wherever I imagined I was.  Bear in mind that I am only describing what has worked for me, and everyone has different proclivities, so experiment and use the most effective method you find.  If you are having trouble only at this part of the process, don't worry!  Being able to get to this point consistently is the hard part--from sleep paralysis you have pretty much already succeeded.

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## mel_noah

> I tried it, felt my body tingling, then for some reason I had to swallow really bad, so I did, and that threw off the cycle. It was really hard for me to focus on dreaming when I had the window open blowing wind in and moving the blinds and the fan going, but its too hot to be without them.




I have found (thanks to severe strep throat once when I was younger), that the body always tends to swallow right before falling asleep.

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## jamesplague

How can I keep myself awake? 
I have a hard time with either being too awake, anticipating the sensations, so it's hard to fall asleep;
or being too unfocused which results in falling asleep.

help?  ::bowdown::

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## sk00mba

I tried this method, I got to something of a half SP where i was aware that i couldnt feel my arms.   But the entire time I focused on my breathing i was more aware of my heartbeat, it was extremely loud, kinda like an adrenaline rush, but I wasnt excited, it was still a slow steady beat.  I guess thats weird, has anyone else had that?  It was trouble concentrating on my breathing with it

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## pudgesfan7

Would it work better if I was tired or should I do it in the middle of the day?

Thanks for all of the info thus far

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## jamesplague

I tried rolling my eyes back last night, and my body started to get very uncomfortable after I did the relaxation technique.
It was almost painful, so 10 mins after it started, it still was going on, so I moved a little bit to stop it.
10 mins later, I was still rolling my eyes backwards, and I started snoring! I've never heard myself snore, and I brought myself back to full conciousness, and I never snore in sleep. 
The eye trick seems to be working good! 
I was also focusing on the breath coming in my nostrils, which kept me concentrated well.

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## pudgesfan7

I tried it last night and the relaxation part felt really cool and I could tell I was really close to having a WILD but I rolled over on my side (don't know why lol) which made me lose my concentration


Edit: I did this relaxation technique before which is probably why I got so far into it the first try

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## oubaseballd3

every time i roll my eyes back and then try to concentrate on breathing through my nose i find myself trying to look at my nose region to focus on it...any methods to not doing that lol?

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## DreamChaser

Sorry to be negative, but all these processes and long-term methods that worked for one person, and we are meant to endure all those steps, only hoping to repeat the same success?
I am sorry, but if there was a generic method that we could see a bit easier and simply.
We all haven't got the time to try every extensive method all come up with.
Just being honest.

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## oubaseballd3

way to be a buzz kill lol

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## DreamChaser

> way to be a buzz kill lol



Trying to be honest, but alas it is negative.
This is only my opinion. Sorry to spread bad news.
We all want a simple generic way and it is out there.
It is why we are all really here.

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## oubaseballd3

yes so tell me the simple generic way cause my odds of success are like 400 failures to every 1 success

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## DreamChaser

> yes so tell me the simple generic way cause my odds of success are like 400 failures to every 1 success



Is why we are here.
It is human to want it all, for free, and simple.
 ::D:

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## Shaderem X

i find that breath-concentration is extermely easy, and i've only tried it for a day. is this normal?

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## onyxdreamer

Going to try this tonight!

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## Gabo

So after not trying to lucid dream for a while, I found this thread and thought this sounds like a really good way to consistently lucid dream.

I tried it last night, but I couldn't get past the vibrations stage.  I would keep trying to feel myself floating or falling, but it didn't seem to have any effect.

I also noticed that I would swallow without any notice, even when I tried hard not to.

All in all, though, I feel like I got a lot closer to a WILD than I ever have!
I guess I just need the persistence to let the rest of the stages work themselves out.
I got really anxious waiting for it to happen, and then kind of lost it all when I tried moving my dream body too early.

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## Andrew0853

First i would like 2 say thanks u so much for the tutorial. i read about an hour and a half worth of stuff on lucid dreaming looking up all things like mild and hild. I tried ur technique and feel asleep only to wake up some time in the night ( i woke up about 6 times last night trying over and over agian  :smiley:  ) i don't remember how exactly it happened because i was half asleep and like i said i woke up a lot last night so all the attempts kinda blurr in to each other. but i started to relax my body i felt the tingling sensation u describe move quickly through my extremities to my core but the position i was laying in, on my side, made it so when i lost control of my body i feel to my stomach and this snapped me out of it. weak.I also had a dream were i woke up in my bed like normal i stared to pet my cat and she was play-fully attacking my hand through the blanket..... long story short it wasn't my cat i was dreaming i have a black cat this cat was black and white, i went to my back yard and apparently in the dead of night it turns into the stray cat hang out, it was awesome, but when i did wake up i was like SHIT i was dreaming.
I'm keep trying til i get this, to think i could control my dreams..... its mind blowing

also i read people having trouble rolling there eyes back into ur head...... i barley did it like border line looking up and it still worked so don't try so hard they don't have to be looking at ur brain, at least 4 me.

the hardest part for me is staying still, i try to relax but i get so restless i wanna move positions aftr a min or so, i'll have to work on that

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## onyxdreamer

I tried it and I must say I was able to relax very easily and felt myself beginning to float within 5  minutes. Unfortunately, I floated right into unconscious sleep.  :Sad: 

But I love it and will try again tonight.

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## ZmillA

"As this feeling spreads to your torso it will become more intense. It may feel as if though your heart is beginning to race, and you may feel suddenly very hot or very cold, and it may feel as if though you cannot breathe. All of this completely normal, and totally illusory. These symptoms of oncoming sleep paralysis were what caused me so much difficulty initially. I was dreadfully afraid of asphyxiating and would wake myself out of it every time. Concentrate on the feeling of energy throughout your body, allow your heart to race (even though it's beating at its regular rate, or a bit faster due to your excitement), continue breathing normally even if it seems to feel labored,"

thats the part I get hung up on. But now I know im on the right track  :smiley:

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## Andrew0853

so after i expanded my knowledge i have concluded that i had a false awaking my first time trying this technique, or best case i actually did it cuz i rolled over and began petting my cat and que the dream

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## Forrest

A few questions.
1. How long did it take you to be good at concentrating on breathing?
2. When you concentrate on it, is your mind completely devoid of any words? I can only speak for myself, but thinking for me is in english. For this to work, do your thoughts have to be wordeless? Or can you be repeating a little mantra such as "in, out" or something like that?

I should imagine that I'll try WILDing one of these days. I'll get around to it after I have some actual freaking DILDs...  ::|:

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## TheModernNinja

This still requires WBTB, right?

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## ShadowOfSelf

> This still requires WBTB, right?



Dude, this thread was posted in 2008, be lucky to get a response, try not to dig up old threads. Nevertheless its a good guide, and yes it would require wbtb.

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