# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  The ultimate aid?

## BigFan

Hello everyone,
Well I decided to do a little experiment based on some of the threads I read here. First, one of the threads on another part of the forum mentioned that using a fish oil pill and choline pill lead to a very realistic, vivid dream which was remembered well. I think this thread was created by Hard Wired(sp?  :Oops: ). Anyways, I recently tried green tea since my dream recall is just horrible even if I try autosuggestion and I was able to remember some parts from three dreams, so, it seems to have helped. Now, I decided to try all three of these things tonight, except they aren't pills but naturals. So, instead of fish oil, I ate salmon(omega 3), plan to eat some eggs before bed(choline) and drink some green tea(L-therine(sp?)). I'm interested in the results and will keep this thread posted. While I don't think I'll get lucid yet, I should be able to remember my dreams much better with the addition of the cholin and omega 3. What do you guys think?  :smiley:

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## panta-rei

Sounds good. May I suggest your record some other things, though? 

How you slept, how long, what else you ate, how long before, etc...

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## BigFan

> Sounds good. May I suggest your record some other things, though? 
> 
> How you slept, how long, what else you ate, how long before, etc...



ok, np. I'm gonna add an apple to that mix, lol  :tongue2:

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## LightningMunk

i have a pb&j like everynite that has alot of omega3 in the bread, usually around 10 pm,  and i always have lots of dreams the nite i have the pb&j. try it out yourself might work great

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## BigFan

> i have a pb&j like everynite that has alot of omega3 in the bread, usually around 10 pm,  and i always have lots of dreams the nite i have the pb&j. try it out yourself might work great



Thanks for the info. I don't eat peanut butter, but, the salmon should be able compensate for that  :tongue2:  I'll post all my info tommorrow morning  :smiley:

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## LightningMunk

not even peanut butter, but just the bread (and whatever u want on it i guess)....and salmon is supposed to work great too  :smiley: 
please post results

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## marcc

I had canned tuna yesterday, along with 2 microwaved eggs (!), several bananas, several sodas and a boatload of hummus.

I was able to WBTB! I have been sleeping like a brick for the last 3 months and that really bothered me. I think most American's usually have an Omega-3 deficiency.

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## panta-rei

So, how'd it go?






> not even peanut butter, but just the bread (and whatever u want on it i guess)....and salmon is supposed to work great too 
> please post results







> Thanks for the info. I don't eat peanut butter, but, the salmon should be able compensate for that  I'll post all my info tommorrow morning



Salmon sandwich.

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## BigFan

Ingredients:
- Salmon(omega 3) @ 6-7pm
- Egg(Choline) @ 10:15-10:30pm
- 1 Granny Smith Apple(Acetylcholine) @ 10:45-11pm
- Green Tea with no sugar(L-therine) @ 12:30am
Slept @ 12:45-1am after ~5-10minute meditation(couldn't fall asleep before  :tongue2: )

Result:
I had one vivid dream and was able to remember it. I am not sure how it started but I did remember it to the end, however, that was it. I wasn't able to recall any other dreams, although, I might remember some parts of the other dreams from everyday life. For example, I remembered a dream from yesterday when I heard a certain word mentioned  :tongue2: 

What does this mean? I'm thinking that the Salmon didn't have as much of an effect as I wanted, maybe because I took it sometime back, I mean ~6hours before I went to bed. I'm also wondering whether the apple helped the recall or not. In the apple thread a couple of them below, while some had good luck with drinking 1-2 cups of apple juice, others found that their recall was worse, maybe that's why I only remember one dream and no parts of the others. It could have also been the fact that the previous night, I awoke ~2h after I fell asleep and as a result, I remembered the first dream. To put it bluntly, not sure if the apples, salmon and egg helped the recall at all since the results seem on par with the previous dream of only green tea  :smiley: 

Further Research: I'm interested in just trying 2 apples and green tea or a banana and green tea. Since green tea increased my recall the previous night, I'm interested in using that as a step up, so, if 2 apples allowed me to recall more dreams, it means that the combination is a good one, likewise with bananas or anything else I try with the green tea  :smiley: 

Any notes: I have to say that while I'm not sure if what I experienced is the start of SP or not, my brain felt pretty odd when I went to bed. What I mean is it felt like there were circles which were closing right into the middle of my head and my hair was rising with them, it was pretty funny and relaxing  ::D:

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## panta-rei

Hey, good job!  ::D: 

I'm interested as to how this will pan out...

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## BigFan

> Hey, good job! 
> 
> I'm interested as to how this will pan out...



Thanks, I would have loved to see more dreams though. I was expecting 2-3 dreams after this but I had too many factors  :tongue2:  My dream recall is just pathetic and I think its the main reason I ain't having LDs now. I plan to keep on drinking green tea every night, so, I know I'll at least remember one dream, but, hoping that I'll be able to increase the frequency with the apples or bananas, etc.... Unforunately, the banana one will have to wait, because, I just ate the last  ::lol::  I'll try the apple one tonight and report the results in this thread. It'll make a good research project  :smiley: 
One other thing to mention is that I had melted cheese last night, so, its possible that was a factor in the one dream remember thing. Anyways, I'll do more research and try to see if I can increase the frequency of my dreams. I'll make sure to update this thread exactly like the last post with all the details, times, what it means, etc..... Maybe we can find some good combo  ::D:

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## DudeSimpson

I heard somewhere that milk helps also...Calcium perhaps?

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## BigFan

> I heard somewhere that milk helps also...Calcium perhaps?



hmm, its quite possible  :smiley:  I couldn't drink milk either way yesterday since I ate salmon, but, maybe I'll try that in some upcoming experiements. At the moment, I'm interested in finding some combinations that include green tea  :smiley:

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## Andrewvc16

a salmon sandwich!!

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## marcc

Yeah, Omega-3 definitely does the trick  :smiley:  I didn't remember the dream but I have a sense, or feeling, that it was a pleasant one  :smiley: 

I just take one "Chicken of the Sea" tuna can and mix it with a large heap of tasty hummus  ::D:  and I've had good effects.

But now I'm out of hummus  ::cry::   ::lol:: 

Maybe I'll take two cans and a banana tonight  :wink2:

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## BigFan

A little update:
I decided to go with green tea + strawberries for tonight. We had some strawberries that have been in the fridge for a couple of days and prevent spoilage, I decided to eat them instead of the 2 apples. I'll do the apples tommorrow night. If I remember correctly, strawberries were the third on the list for antioxidants in the apples thread, so, I might have better luck. Finally, I've decided to try a WBTB to see if I can get a lucid, since, all my other tries were WILDing or DILDing when I went to bed, wish me luck  ::D:

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## LightningMunk

well i got a gatorade out of the vending machine today and i noticed it had 60&#37; daily value of vitamin b6 in it...and i remember someone talking about gatorade, so that might be a solution

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## BigFan

Bad news, I had a hard time sleeping last night. I ended up sleeping at around 2:30 starting from 12:45 and then woke up at 4 then at 5 because of the alarm. I tried to hit the pre-REM stage, assuming it goes 1.5h, so, woke up ~2.5h after sleeping with the presumption that REM hits at ~3h. Long story short, I couldn't fall asleep and I think its partially due to reading threads on DV for an hour, but, mostly because I just wasn't tried at all, so, I have no results from the green tea+strawberries experiment  :Sad:  I will try the green tea+2 apples tonight and likely won't try a WBTB until I can make sure that I can fall asleep again  :smiley:  One other thing is I could try doing a WBTB and drinking the green tea along with eating the 2 apples then. It would be nice to see if I would get different results if I was to do that instead of the take it before bed study  :smiley: 

@LightningMunk Thanks for the gatorade thing  :smiley:

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## cygnus

throw in some garlic with that fish sandwich! 

garlic (pills) seems to especially help me out when my recall hits a bad funk.

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## BigFan

> throw in some garlic with that fish sandwich! 
> 
> garlic (pills) seems to especially help me out when my recall hits a bad funk.



hmm, garlic pills? Never knew there was such a thing  :smiley:  Thanks for the advice guys, I'll make sure to report on the apple experiment tonight and no WBTB for me  ::lol::

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## panta-rei

> well i got a gatorade out of the vending machine today and i noticed it had 60% daily value of vitamin b6 in it...and i remember someone talking about gatorade, so that might be a solution



The recommended B6 taken to affect dreams is something like 500% of your daily value... Not to say it won't help because of something else... It just probably isn't B6.

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## BigFan

> The recommended B6 taken to affect dreams is something like 500% of your daily value... Not to say it won't help because of something else... It just probably isn't B6.



500% of your daily value? wow, talk about overdosing on a vitamin  ::lol::

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## panta-rei

It's water soluable, so if you drink a healthy amount of water the next day, it shouldn't be a problem. (Even so, I wouldn't take it more than once a week.)

I also got that number wrong... It's about 5000&#37;.

Also, BigFan. I've noticed green tea not working for me... I'm going to try drinking it about half an hour earlier than I normally do. (Just before going to sleep.)

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## BigFan

> It's water soluable, so if you drink a healthy amount of water the next day, it shouldn't be a problem. (Even so, I wouldn't take it more than once a week.)
> 
> I also got that number wrong... It's about 5000%.
> 
> Also, BigFan. I've noticed green tea not working for me... I'm going to try drinking it about half an hour earlier than I normally do. (Just before going to sleep.)



yes, that's true, it is water soluble, forgot that part  :tongue2:  5000%, wow, anyways, let's get straight to the actual experimentation  :smiley:  For the green tea, well, it did seem to work on the first night, but, last night wasn't exactly good sleeping. What I meant is that I wasn't able to sleep until pretty late, then I woke up twice(4am and 5am), so, I would assume that I would have remembered one dream from my first REM period. Am I supposed to repeat the mantra "I'll remember my dreams"? I assumed I didn't have to, since, green tea shouldn't require it, although, it could strength my recall  :smiley:

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## BigFan

I'll be going to bed soon, so, I'll give the green tea and 2 apples a try. I won't be trying a WBTB until tommorrow night. I won't repeat the mantra "I think I'm dreaming" because I didn't last time(far as I recall)  :smiley:

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## panta-rei

> Am I supposed to repeat the mantra "I'll remember my dreams"? I assumed I didn't have to, since, green tea shouldn't require it, although, it could strength my recall







> I'll be going to bed soon, so, I'll give the green tea and 2 apples a try. I won't be trying a WBTB until tommorrow night. I won't repeat the mantra "I think I'm dreaming" because I didn't last time(far as I recall)



I would hope that you haven't been. Autosuggestion could cause all of this, instead of the tea causing it.  ::D: 

Again, green tea didn't work for me last night.  :Sad:  But, I'm not the most... "perfect" of samples. (Abrupt awakening. 6 hours of sleep...)

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## BigFan

Ingredients:
- Apple @ ~3:36am
- Green Tea with no sugar(L-therine) @ ~3:54am
Slept @ ~4am 

Result:
Although, I feel that I was partially able to remember some dream, when I began to really try to, I just couldn't remember it at all. 

What does this mean? Two things, first, its possible that green tea + apple recipe doesn't work well to help in remembering dreams OR since I slept pretty late after taking a hot shower, I was in a deep sleep and couldn't remember my dreams as a results.

Further Research: I will have to repeat this tonight, but, make sure that I sleep ~12 or so to prevent the possible error of not remembering due to late sleeping  :smiley: 

Any notes: Took a hot shower before eating the apple and drinking green tea. I was planning on doing some exercise to sleep faster, but, turns out that the treadmill is a bit on the messed up side, so, I had to postpone  ::lol::  Last thing is I didn't use any autosuggestion at all in terms of remembering the dream, I did repeat the mantra "I will have a lucid dream and remember it", however, it was a couple of times and I just didn't care to repeat it anymore than that, so, I went to sleep without constantly repeating it like before  :tongue2:

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## lucidspark64

this sounds interesting. people keep saying all these crazy things work. i heard someone say mustard once... i don't know

anyway ill observe this thread to see what you come up with  :smiley: 

good luck

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## BigFan

> this sounds interesting. people keep saying all these crazy things work. i heard someone say mustard once... i don't know
> 
> anyway ill observe this thread to see what you come up with 
> 
> good luck



I think what happens is that people get more motivation to remember a dream and when they do, they attribute it to whatever they eat before they went to bed. Perfectly normal and is the reason that something like mustard was said to help you remember. Keep watching the thread, before I plan to try these different combos until one works and is reliable  :smiley:

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## lucidspark64

alright. well so far i hear a lot about like vit b6 (i think for alertness) and some kind of ginco belloba plant (pill) to help recall.

if you havent tried the b6, i recommend right before sleep unless you want to stare at the ceiling all night. i think it works best for wbtb.

my last long intense lucid, i just had a sip of coke. enough for alertness but not too much so that i stayed up all night. i'm not sure if it was the coke though because this dream was at like 6am when i drank at like 11pm

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## BigFan

> alright. well so far i hear a lot about like vit b6 (i think for alertness) and some kind of ginco belloba plant (pill) to help recall.
> 
> if you havent tried the b6, i recommend right before sleep unless you want to stare at the ceiling all night. i think it works best for wbtb.
> 
> my last long intense lucid, i just had a sip of coke. enough for alertness but not too much so that i stayed up all night. i'm not sure if it was the coke though because this dream was at like 6am when i drank at like 11pm



Thanks for the info  :smiley: 

Bad news guys, just woke up with a fever and headache this morning. I'll still take green tea as night since it should help with the fever, but, that will likely be the only item. This will strength my argument that green tea is good for recall since I would have multiple trials. I'll post the data here and once I'm back to normal, I'll try experimenting again  ::D:

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## panta-rei

Alright, get well soon, BigFan.  ::D:

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## lucidspark64

yes, get well soon and hope to see positive results  :smiley: 

btw, took a b-50 pill the other night, nothing really happend (b6 included about 2500&#37; of daily value) but i didnt want to overdose on something else within the pill if i took it twice.

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## BigFan

Thanks guys, definitely feeling a lot better, but, still gotta transverse some roads ahead. So, you're saying that the b-50 didn't help? Sorry, but are we talking about vitamin b or what's b-50 exactly?  :tongue2:

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## panta-rei

Vitamins tend to be hit or miss for most people...

Don't work much for me, but well for others.

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## BigFan

> Vitamins tend to be hit or miss for most people...
> 
> Don't work much for me, but well for others.



oh, ok, just wanted to double check that we are talking about vitamins  :smiley:

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## cygnus

> So, you're saying that the b-50 didn't help? Sorry, but are we talking about vitamin b or what's b-50 exactly?



B-50 is just a mixture of 50mg of a few B vitamins - you'll often find 50 and 100 complexes.

i used to work at a nat'l food store, and i once asked the gen. manager about B vitamins. he said the "effects" only last for a few hours unless you get the sustained release type, in case this factors into how you're using it, i.e. taking it before bed or upon waking in the early morning.

hey hey i had a healthy pre-sleep snack of an apple and a banana (and a fish oil pill) last night and DEILD-ed a string of sorta lucid dreams woohoo 

 ::banana:: 
the dancing banana approves.

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## BigFan

> B-50 is just a mixture of 50mg of a few B vitamins - you'll often find 50 and 100 complexes.
> 
> i used to work at a nat'l food store, and i once asked the gen. manager about B vitamins. he said the "effects" only last for a few hours unless you get the sustained release type, in case this factors into how you're using it, i.e. taking it before bed or upon waking in the early morning.
> 
> hey hey i had a healthy pre-sleep snack of an apple and a banana (and a fish oil pill) last night and DEILD-ed a string of sorta lucid dreams woohoo 
> 
> 
> the dancing banana approves.



oh, ok, thanks for the explanation. One thing about your lucid dreams, how would you rate your dream recall?  :smiley:  Gotta love the dancing banana  ::lol::

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## cygnus

> oh, ok, thanks for the explanation. One thing about your lucid dreams, how would you rate your dream recall?  Gotta love the dancing banana



two weeks ago i was having pretty bad recall - i couldn't really figure out why, and i also wasn't using any of the supplements we're talking about here. as soon as i started using garlic or stuff with b vitamins it started to come back - i just needed a little nudge i guess.

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## lucidspark64

sorry i havent been on lately.

i havent tried any other supplements and ive had one hell of a dryspell. ive just been doing more reality checks.

but yeah the b-50 is just a combination of other stuff. i took it becus i couldnt just get one supplement by itself.

oh well...

anything new? maybe you should try a sip of coke.

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## marcc

> sorry i havent been on lately.
> 
> i havent tried any other supplements and ive had one hell of a dryspell. ive just been doing more reality checks.
> 
> but yeah the b-50 is just a combination of other stuff. i took it becus i couldnt just get one supplement by itself.
> 
> oh well...
> 
> anything new? maybe you should try a sip of coke.



You know what you should try? Artichoke  ::D:

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## lucidspark64

> You know what you should try? Artichoke



are you kidding?

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## marcc

> are you kidding?



nope  ::D:  it's worked for me! But, I'm having a heat wave where I am, so the sun is a little stronger while I'm in my REM sleep, so I wake up remembering the dream clearly  :tongue2:

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## BigFan

Artichokes? lol, sounds to me like every food nowadays gives results  :wink2: 

@lucidspark64 sorry nothing, but, I'm almost as good as new. Those were some very busy 4 days  :tongue2:  I've been trying/sleeping earlier lately so maybe that along with the green tea will help increase my recall. I'm think my bad recall is due to the amount of late night sleeping that I've done in the past  :smiley:  I might be trying a WILD tonight, so, I'm not sure how that will work with the green tea though, but, nevertheless I'll still drink green tea before bed  :tongue2:  I don't drink coke at all, same with pepsi, 7-up, sprite(from time to time), etc.... They aren't good for you  ::D:

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## lucidspark64

> @lucidspark64 sorry nothing, but, I'm almost as good as new. Those were some very busy 4 days  I've been trying/sleeping earlier lately so maybe that along with the green tea will help increase my recall. I'm think my bad recall is due to the amount of late night sleeping that I've done in the past  I might be trying a WILD tonight, so, I'm not sure how that will work with the green tea though, but, nevertheless I'll still drink green tea before bed  I don't drink coke at all, same with pepsi, 7-up, sprite(from time to time), etc.... They aren't good for you




do you drink any soda?
hmm... well i was only suggesting a sip so i'm not sure what could replace that, but yeah it seems that there are a lot of alternatives anyway other than soda  ::D: 

have you thought about experimenting with each for about a week?
ive been thinking about it, what if you take something one night (lets say manoyse). it doesnt seem effective and so you try mustard the next. what if the manoyse takes a full 24hrs to take effect? and so you try mustard again and are just like "what the f*ck". i doubt that but within the week you could try different solutions like 1 cup of green tea one day, and maybe only a sip on day 2. and after the week, if no results, try something else.

only a thought but if went through, this could take a while.

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## lucidspark64

wait what about a sip of coffee or something to replace the soda. just a sip of caffiene or do you not drink coffee? i don't anyway.

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## cygnus

> wait what about a sip of coffee or something to replace the soda. just a sip of caffiene or do you not drink coffee? i don't anyway.




if we're talking about an "ultimate aid" shouldn't we be classifying it more in terms of increasing dream vividness, recall or alertness or something like that?.. i'm sure people will need to have a more personalized aid to help them out.

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## BigFan

> do you drink any soda?
> hmm... well i was only suggesting a sip so i'm not sure what could replace that, but yeah it seems that there are a lot of alternatives anyway other than soda 
> 
> have you thought about experimenting with each for about a week?
> ive been thinking about it, what if you take something one night (lets say manoyse). it doesnt seem effective and so you try mustard the next. what if the manoyse takes a full 24hrs to take effect? and so you try mustard again and are just like "what the f*ck". i doubt that but within the week you could try different solutions like 1 cup of green tea one day, and maybe only a sip on day 2. and after the week, if no results, try something else.
> 
> only a thought but if went through, this could take a while.



Well, from time to time, sprite, but, nothing else. They aren't the best things for you to take it, so, I might as well get used to not drinking them  :smiley:  I do see your point and I'll think about it.





> wait what about a sip of coffee or something to replace the soda. just a sip of caffiene or do you not drink coffee? i don't anyway.



no, I've drank coffee, but, again, very small amounts and very rarely as well. I try to stay away from caffeine, but, I do drink black or green tea  ::D: 





> if we're talking about an "ultimate aid" shouldn't we be classifying it more in terms of increasing dream vividness, recall or alertness or something like that?.. i'm sure people will need to have a more personalized aid to help them out.



yes, you are correct, we should. That's mostly what I was basing it on, how many can you recall after you take it for the starting point.  

I've been thinking about these aids lately and I think the general approach we are taking is wrong. Why do I say this? Simple, as everyone knows, if you wake up from a REM period, you'll remember the dream. I don't know if taking something like green tea will help you remember it less or more vividly, etc.... but I don't think you would need it to remember the dream fully. I THINK I had some tea yesterday around 5pm and despite waking up once at night, I only remember one dream in the morning and I think I remembered most of the dream because I woke up from a REM period  :tongue2:

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## panta-rei

Well lucid aids are not meant to solve anything. Only help. 

Tea _with_ good recall habits is most likely better than good recall habits on their own.

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## lucidspark64

well last night, my alarm was set for 3am. woke up for a sec and had a Goto Kula pill ready and took it. I just looked it up on the interent (i hoped i spelled it right, ill check when i get home) and apparently people use it for their metabolism. When i took it, i thought it was a memory aid.

Anyway i took it and i almost did have a lucid dream. I suspected to be dreaming but my reality check failed. I don't think the pill really helped but it could of, or maybe i just got the placebo effect.

I have been doing more reality checks lately though so maybe thats just it. I'll make sure i got the name right for the herb, and I will probably try again tonight.

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## BigFan

I'll be trying to WILD tonight, but, I'll drink green tea before bed to see if I get anything even after attempting to WILD  :smiley:

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## lucidspark64

ok well my dry spell is up and i have been having more dreams than ever. non lucid sadly  :Sad: 

well my wbtb is set for 3am and i plan on taking this uhh... holy basil and it says its good for body health...blah blah blah... and mental clarity. so ima see if that does anything tonite.

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## BigFan

Be very careful when taking pills because they could cause some imbalance and really degrade your health. If I were you, lucidspark64, I would try some natural stuff as a green tea or fruits before bed, etc.... 
A little update:
My sleep pattern has recently changed over the last week. I've been sleeping earlier(~12) in comparison to the 2-3. I don't know how much of an effect this has had on my dream recall, but, I was able to remember 3 dreams over the week, possibly from waking up during a REM period. I have been drinking green tea some of those days, but, I can't recall which ones. I'll start taking notice on when I drink green tea starting today  :smiley:

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## lucidspark64

Don't worry it was a herb. It didnt appear very effective though. 

I do have this green tea pill. I'm not much of a tea person but I have this supplement.

As for your sleep, I would recommend the more sleep, the better because more sleep equals more dreams. Too much sleep can effect your recall though. I think it's best to get atleast 7-9hrs a night although I'm not sure how much you are getting.

I'm not sure if different time of night to get as much sleep as before can effect anything. Probably better to find a time that works best for you and try to stick with it. I would guess that your mind gets use to your sleep habits.

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## panta-rei

Well! Now I'll finally be getting enough sleep a night, so I can try some more things as well.  ::D: 

Good luck, everyone.

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## BigFan

> Don't worry it was a herb. It didnt appear very effective though. 
> 
> I do have this green tea pill. I'm not much of a tea person but I have this supplement.
> 
> As for your sleep, I would recommend the more sleep, the better because more sleep equals more dreams. Too much sleep can effect your recall though. I think it's best to get atleast 7-9hrs a night although I'm not sure how much you are getting.
> 
> I'm not sure if different time of night to get as much sleep as before can effect anything. Probably better to find a time that works best for you and try to stick with it. I would guess that your mind gets use to your sleep habits.



oh, ok, I see. Either way, better be careful  :smiley:  Yes, I agree, more sleep means more dreams, but, too much is bad. I usually get the 7-9hrs, but, sometimes I have slept for 11hrs or so  :tongue2:  I do think sleeping earlier is much better than sleeping later because, not sure if you guys know this, but, it's said that every hour that you sleep before 12, is around 3 hours after and I think your body relaxes and is better off if you sleep before 12 than after. It's still difficult for me to sleep before 12, but, I'm on the fence and am getting there. Hoping that I'll be able to sleep by 11 on a regular basis  ::D:  





> Well! Now I'll finally be getting enough sleep a night, so I can try some more things as well. 
> 
> Good luck, everyone.



Thanks, you too. That's definitely good news  :smiley:  Don't overexperiment though  :tongue2:  BTW, nice dream journal, some of your dreams including that lion one was fantastic to read and you write pretty well  :smiley:  I'll see if I can post a dream or two once I have transferred my dreams to my laptop  ::D:

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## panta-rei

> Thanks, you too. That's definitely good news  Don't overexperiment though  BTW, nice dream journal, some of your dreams including that lion one was fantastic to read and you write pretty well  I'll see if I can post a dream or two once I have transferred my dreams to my laptop



Thank you. I just hope to start LDing again soon, and mainly, to get my recall back up to par. 

Tonight, Ceylon tea.

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## lucidspark64

Alright guys, well last night I tried the green tea, in a pill and had a bananna for the b-vit. in it and well... nothing. I did have like 2 longish... uhh dreams but neither were lucid. I thought maybe a herbal pill for clarity and a slight energy boost before bed would get me some better results even a failed reality check. *sigh*

I think tonight, I might just take a break from the wbtb and supplements. 

And no I never heard of the whole sleep before 12 idea. I usually sleep about 1/2 an hour before 12 and sometimes 12 is just when I doze off I think. 

Someone here should make a list of things for us to try... I mean really!  :smiley:

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## BigFan

> Alright guys, well last night I tried the green tea, in a pill and had a bananna for the b-vit. in it and well... nothing. I did have like 2 longish... uhh dreams but neither were lucid. I thought maybe a herbal pill for clarity and a slight energy boost before bed would get me some better results even a failed reality check. *sigh*
> 
> I think tonight, I might just take a break from the wbtb and supplements. 
> 
> And no I never heard of the whole sleep before 12 idea. I usually sleep about 1/2 an hour before 12 and sometimes 12 is just when I doze off I think. 
> 
> Someone here should make a list of things for us to try... I mean really!



hmm, I was thinking the supplements would help your recall, not making you lucid and the extra clarity might help you initiate a RC. Do take a break tonight and see if you can detect any differences. Never heard of the whole sleep before 12 thing? I thought most ppl knew that one, anyways, it's said that it's a lot better for your body and brain if you sleep before 12. We could try a list of things to do and have everyone put in their experience. 
I had black tea yesterday at ~7-8pm and while I did recall having some dream when I awoke(dream fragments), I think it was mostly because I woke up from a REM period  :tongue2:

----------


## cygnus

i had a dream last night where i was checking out the label on a bottle of choline. i think my subconscious wants me to give it a try haha. 

i looked up foods high in choline and the list included eggs and broccoli. i'm bout to make an omelet tonight!


i've got a question for you guys:
will the effects of a certain food accumulate over time? for example, if i drank green tea or ate a broccoli omelet every night would the effects on my dreaming become noticeable after several days? or will the body acclimate to this?

and yes, i think we should come up with a detailed list of aids...

----------


## BigFan

> i had a dream last night where i was checking out the label on a bottle of choline. i think my subconscious wants me to give it a try haha. 
> 
> i looked up foods high in choline and the list included eggs and broccoli. i'm bout to make an omelet tonight!
> 
> 
> i've got a question for you guys:
> will the effects of a certain food accumulate over time? for example, if i drank green tea or ate a broccoli omelet every night would the effects on my dreaming become noticeable after several days? or will the body acclimate to this?
> 
> and yes, i think we should come up with a detailed list of aids...



I would think they would become noticeable. I think if you drink green tea everyday, you should develop better recall and if you stop, your recall would go back to normal. Reason I say this is because green tea and any other lucid aid will help the body by contributing with their own chemicals such as cholin in eggs or L-thernine(sp?) in green tea. MY only concern is developing some kind of addiction to green tea or whatever it is, but, meh, it probably won't be anywhere as dangerous as saying smoking  :tongue2:  I think we should do the list as well, I'll wait to see if we get more replies for the list and then we can make a list and have everyone's experience added in. So, maybe day 1-5, nothing to see your recall, then for 5 days, drink green tea and then compare. We could then stop again for 5 days and see if the recall seems to have improved or not which will confirm the idea of the aid being only temporary. Then we can move to specific fruits and finally some combos. I think it would be fun and it'll still be healthy at the same time since we are drinking tea and eating fruits  :smiley:

----------


## lucidspark64

lol aids...

but yeah this could take a while but its for a good cause  :smiley: 

i did think my green tea in a pill with bannana combo would help but i couldnt even get the placebo effect ... 

What's this L-thernine? I think I might have some of that.

My recall has been good lately but I'm still going through a lucid dry spell. I could really use a good aid guys lol. I'm taking the night off though with these supplements. Maybe just a break will help? I don't know.

I guess I'll start: Banana
I provided the link that gives nutrition facts... Maybe we should consider a 2nd banana when testing.

----------


## cygnus

my tea of choice has been a decaff green tea/peppermint combo mmmmm. so i'll be the expert on that  :wink2: 

and i'll be out of town for a week starting friday, so i'll have 5 days to assess my recall, then go back to getting a nightly tea fix. mmm.

----------


## lucidspark64

And I will try to look up other fruits and vegetables if I can. The only thing is I'm not sure of what some of the stuff is but I can always looks that up.

Alright  :smiley:

----------


## BigFan

> lol aids...
> 
> but yeah this could take a while but its for a good cause 
> 
> i did think my green tea in a pill with bannana combo would help but i couldnt even get the placebo effect ... 
> 
> What's this L-thernine? I think I might have some of that.
> 
> My recall has been good lately but I'm still going through a lucid dry spell. I could really use a good aid guys lol. I'm taking the night off though with these supplements. Maybe just a break will help? I don't know.
> ...



I know what you mean, I've had that too before and its a bit annoying but its research, so, you gotta expect these things. As for the L-thernine, I heard its some ingredient in green tea that supposed to help with recall. I think it was in the green tea thread. At least, you've had more than one lucid, lol, I'm still trying to improve my recall, but, I'll rather not wake up everytime I finish a dream to write it down. It's bad enough as it is to remember one dream instead of broken fragments and its hard enough to write that down  ::lol::  Yes, I think Banana's are a good way to go. We could try apples and I have some strawberries over here  :smiley:  





> my tea of choice has been a decaff green tea/peppermint combo mmmmm. so i'll be the expert on that 
> 
> and i'll be out of town for a week starting friday, so i'll have 5 days to assess my recall, then go back to getting a nightly tea fix. mmm.



Nice, perfect. 5 days of no tea to see your recall, then compare with 5 days of tea afterwards  :smiley: 

I'll do some list tommorrow of possible fruits to try and see what we can do. I'm sure Delphinus would love to jump in and considering he's doing green tea like I am, you'll have some partners cygnus  :wink2:

----------


## Firewalker

Big Fan, I suggest you buy a good green tea suppliment in capsule form instead of drinking it.  From what I have read you get about the concentration of drinking somewhere around ten glasses of tea of the EGCG.  This boosts norepinephrine, also some suppliments also have quite a bit of caffeine which can also help.  This has worked for me several times, the best way I have found to use the suppliments are as a WBTB aid.  Take a 3mg or so Melatonin pill at bedtime, get up around four hours latter, take the green tea and go back to bed.  This combo has worked for me, although I rarely try it anymore, as I have a hard time waking up in the middle of the night.

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## lucidspark64

Alright I have heard good things about apples and also cheese.

What kinds of cheese? Not sure but if it doesn't matter, then it could be the vitamins within it. I think apple juice would probably be better then eating the apple straight unless maybe there's something on the skin that could be important probably worth considering.

bigfan, have you had any lucids?

----------


## BigFan

@Firewalker is that safe though? I mean 10 glasses of tea, isn't there some danger involved in that? The reason I was only drinking a cup before bed is because I didn't wanna overdo it  :tongue2: 





> Alright I have heard good things about apples and also cheese.
> 
> What kinds of cheese? Not sure but if it doesn't matter, then it could be the vitamins within it. I think apple juice would probably be better then eating the apple straight unless maybe there's something on the skin that could be important probably worth considering.
> 
> bigfan, have you had any lucids?



yes, I've had one so far, lately due to being recently sick and on medication at the moment, I decided to try and improve my recall until I'm better in which case I'll give WBTBs another try  :tongue2:  I truly believe that sleeping before 12 or at least close to it will help my recall, but, again possibly the placebo effect  :tongue2:  As for cheese, I'm not too sure. The problem is that the placebo effect could be playing a big role in these cases and we can't seperate that from the actual effect. Different people have tried different fruits and claimed that they helped in having vivid dreams, but, other than people's accounts of vivid dreams which could be due to the placebo effect, there is nothing to go by  ::?:

----------


## lucidspark64

well maybe things will pick up when you get better  :smiley: 
I did almost have a lucid dream last night. I barely remember though and I didn't take supplements.

I _attempted_ to meditate before bed last night just to try it. I just laid against the backboard of my bed in my dark room and shut my eyes. I tried clearing my mind and when it seemed pretty clear, I repeated the phrase to my self"I'm dreaming" "this is a dream" and I pictured in my head what it would be like if I did start dreaming in my room and what would I do since I was lucid. 

So in a way it was like a lucid daydream only I was pretending like it was a real dream. I use to do this stuff when I was younger but I didn't exactly know what lucid dreaming was back then.

And I had a dream and although I don't remember what happened, I do remember saying "I am dreaming". I don't think I was lucid because there wasn't much meaning behind it. It was as if I was on my bed just daydreaming again. So I guess in a way it backfired. 

Maybe a b6 in the middle of the night could fix this? I don't know, but i'll try this again without supplements to see if the actual attempted meditation did anything.

----------


## BigFan

hmm, I have meditated before and gotten to pre-SP which doing so. I was also able to clear my mind but this was weeks back. I might give meditation a try and repeat the mantra, I will do RCs and realize when I'm dreaming  :smiley:  That might work if your mind is clear and when you dream, you might hear the message of RCing causing you to RC which might make you lucid  ::D:  As for the lucid aids, I was thinking of trying:
- Apples
- Bananas
- Strawberries
- Green Tea
There are obviously more, so, keep them coming  ::D:

----------


## lucidspark64

Alrighty then. well i never heard of strawberries doing anything but I guess, we can find that out.  :smiley: 

I do plan on meditating tonight again so hopefully that goes well and if I just end up with the same results as last night, I'll just try a banana in a WBTB to see if that helps. Then maybe I can experiement from there.

I wonder about jalapenos. I know not many people like them because of their spicyness but I can't get enough of it sometimes lol. I couldn't find any facts on them though but maybe I could experiement with them anyway.

I guess we could try... uhh... mustard... sounds completely random but hey, it _could_ work.

----------


## BigFan

> Alrighty then. well i never heard of strawberries doing anything but I guess, we can find that out. 
> 
> I do plan on meditating tonight again so hopefully that goes well and if I just end up with the same results as last night, I'll just try a banana in a WBTB to see if that helps. Then maybe I can experiement from there.
> 
> I wonder about jalapenos. I know not many people like them because of their spicyness but I can't get enough of it sometimes lol. I couldn't find any facts on them though but maybe I could experiement with them anyway.
> 
> I guess we could try... uhh... mustard... sounds completely random but hey, it _could_ work.



Strawberries were mentioned to have the third most antioxidant only behind prunes and blueberries if I'm not mistaken. I am still wondering whether we should try these aids before a WBTB or before bed, but, I think before a WBTB is the best option. I'll meditate today and then try a WBTB along with eating a banana and see if I get any results. If I find that upon waking up, I am in SP or close to it, I might just go ahead and and try to WILD instead  :smiley:  You can try mustard if you like, but, make sure that you only take mustard during your WBTB or before bed and be careful of any free variables  :tongue2:

----------


## lucidspark64

Ok well I attempted another meditation. Didn't quite get the same results as the other day but I did have a dream that I was some what aware. Like a bunch of people came to my house and instead of me saying "alright whatever" i was like "what the fuck?"

I guess tonight I'll try a Meditation,Wbtb, and Banana like you. Maybe just eating the fruit alone will increase awarness and I will be getting them vitamins that come with it. 

Saturday, I'm taking that night off but I'll start again sunday night and I will probably do the same thing as I will do tonight with the wbtb banana thing. 

I'm wondering if meditating should be part of wbtb. I think we should try that.  :smiley:

----------


## BigFan

Interesting. I did some quick meditation(couple of minutes max) at which I felt some small vibrations while I was in the lotus position. I woke up this morning twice, once to take a medicine and the other time was the actual awakening. I knew that I had a dream but I just couldn't remember it at all even after I tried to. After doing a couple of things and saw something, it just clicked and I remembered the dream. In the dream, I questioned it, because, the thing that happened in the dream couldn't have been possible due to some factors in RL, however, I didn't become lucid or ask myself if I'm dreaming. Maybe tonight will be the night. Wanted to mention that I found we had no banana and didn't proceed with the WBTB, although, waking up 6h or so after sleeping to take the medicine and then going back to sleep is a WBTB  ::lol::  When you meditate, I would try the mantra, I will become aware when I'm dreaming AFTER you've made sure that your mind is clear of thoughts. It might help, but, I can't really confirm it  :tongue2:  As for the break, take your time. There is no point in trying to become lucid if you are tired, pre-occupied, etc..... because, I'm not sure if it'll happen  :smiley:

----------


## lucidspark64

yeah sometimes it's hard to clear my mind. I can clear it of all thoughts but if there's music playing in my head, that can be hard to get rid of. I tried to get rid of it while saying "i'm dreamig". I did the "pretend to dream" again but it was a little harder to focus this time. probably because of the damn song.

what would be a good mantra? like "If I notice something strange, I will do a reality check"? or maybe just simply "this is a dream". I did work on trying to put more meaning into those words.

I think I just don't know how to meditate properly. I also tried using autosuggestion by looking into my mirror and telling myself these mantras. It's kind of akward but I think it could be effective.

----------


## lucidspark64

Ok well I just read one of your topics about meditation and got some pretty good advice I would say.

I guess keeping a clear head and no thoughts somehow benefits you.

Alright I think I can try it.

----------


## BigFan

> yeah sometimes it's hard to clear my mind. I can clear it of all thoughts but if there's music playing in my head, that can be hard to get rid of. I tried to get rid of it while saying "i'm dreamig". I did the "pretend to dream" again but it was a little harder to focus this time. probably because of the damn song.
> 
> what would be a good mantra? like "If I notice something strange, I will do a reality check"? or maybe just simply "this is a dream". I did work on trying to put more meaning into those words.
> 
> I think I just don't know how to meditate properly. I also tried using autosuggestion by looking into my mirror and telling myself these mantras. It's kind of akward but I think it could be effective.



I don't think you can meditate the wrong way. Just sit or lie in whatever position you want, relax and concentrate on your breathing to clear your mind. Then repeat the mantra "I will become aware within a dream" or something along those lines. In my cases, I did kinda question what happened in the dream while in it, but, don't remember what happened afterwards  :tongue2:

----------


## lucidspark64

ok i havent been able to post for a few days. I'm at my school library right now because laptop isnt at home at the moment so it maybe hard to post for a couple of days.

i did have finally have a lucid dream the other day but i don't think it had anything to do with the fact that I had a strawberry banana shake before bed because I have been having them the past week before bed.

not sure why or how i had the lucid dream. i barely did any reality checks during the day. maybe because my mind needed a break i dont know. the dream was good though and I think I found a new way to summon things.

so i got on a patio chair at the beach and it could fly and I could go anywhere I wanted. i eventually flew over this fence and I started descending afterwards. I was now on government property and tresspassing. I wanted a helicopter so i reached in my pocket and pulled out my keychain with the alarm button on it and everytime I hit the button, a helicopter would appear only a different one would appear everytime I would hit it. sadly the dream ended.

how have you been doing with dreams?

----------


## BigFan

> ok i havent been able to post for a few days. I'm at my school library right now because laptop isnt at home at the moment so it maybe hard to post for a couple of days.
> 
> i did have finally have a lucid dream the other day but i don't think it had anything to do with the fact that I had a strawberry banana shake before bed because I have been having them the past week before bed.
> 
> not sure why or how i had the lucid dream. i barely did any reality checks during the day. maybe because my mind needed a break i dont know. the dream was good though and I think I found a new way to summon things.
> 
> so i got on a patio chair at the beach and it could fly and I could go anywhere I wanted. i eventually flew over this fence and I started descending afterwards. I was now on government property and tresspassing. I wanted a helicopter so i reached in my pocket and pulled out my keychain with the alarm button on it and everytime I hit the button, a helicopter would appear only a different one would appear everytime I would hit it. sadly the dream ended.
> 
> how have you been doing with dreams?



It's np. Well I haven't been having anything before bed lately. I had a dream yesterday morning which I remembered when I awoke, but, nothing today. I haven't had much lucids other than the one, but, I plan to try and WILD or DILD after a WBTB. My last attempt at WILDing yesterday before bed after 5 hours of sleep the previous night resulted in seeing some white lines going into the center when I had my eyes closed, but, then it stopped  :tongue2:  Anyways, since, I am doing a WBTB, I'm thinking it's a good idea to have some green tea or at least try an apple or banana then  :smiley:  I'll report back when I find tommorrow. Congrats on your LD BTW. I would love to have a couple of LDs just to give flying a try, since, I've always to fly and because, I'm sure that it'll really motivate me more, but, I've just been feeling so out of it lately. I'll push myself with RCs and WBTBs over the next couple of days to see if I get any lucids  :smiley:

----------


## marcc

What helps me relax is a good ol' lemon tea.

Just lemon zest and boiling water, let it set for a while, add the vitamins and release all your tension  ::D: 

Then I start daydreaming, which helps with WILDing  :wink2:

----------


## bobmarshall

Hi,

Meditation always does the trick for me to relax... It is a awesome way to soothe the soul.. I totally love the tranquility of meditation...  :smiley:

----------


## lucidspark64

> It's np. Well I haven't been having anything before bed lately. I had a dream yesterday morning which I remembered when I awoke, but, nothing today. I haven't had much lucids other than the one, but, I plan to try and WILD or DILD after a WBTB. My last attempt at WILDing yesterday before bed after 5 hours of sleep the previous night resulted in seeing some white lines going into the center when I had my eyes closed, but, then it stopped  Anyways, since, I am doing a WBTB, I'm thinking it's a good idea to have some green tea or at least try an apple or banana then  I'll report back when I find tommorrow. Congrats on your LD BTW. I would love to have a couple of LDs just to give flying a try, since, I've always to fly and because, I'm sure that it'll really motivate me more, but, I've just been feeling so out of it lately. I'll push myself with RCs and WBTBs over the next couple of days to see if I get any lucids



Alright well it is important to have a goal

Like next time I realize I'm dreaming, i want to do... (fly?) 

i think it helped for me because it helps get your mind set on lucid dreaming.

Well gotta get back to class...  ::roll::

----------


## lucidspark64

Time to squeeze in another possible way.

I know it's hard to do but I had some successful sometimes high-level lucids by waking up for about 30mins while doing something that requires some kind of thinking yet somewhat relaxing. maybe coming on to the forums or reading your dream journal or simply just watching tv.

It may help. If you have trouble falling asleep, maybe you could do the whole meditation thing while laying down.

----------


## cygnus

alright, i'm back home after being gone for a week and .. :Sad:  having no tea!!!  :Sad:  
in that week i recalled (recorded) about 1 dream each morning (which is normal), dream vividness was slightly less than normal, and i had 1 DILD but was still unable to DEILD after a few weeks of working on this. i will keep my DEILD progress separate from this because it's irrelevant to a lucid aid. 


"the ultimate aid" experiment no. 1 --- GREEN TEA/PEPPERMINT BLEND
PROCEDURE:

12 PM: boil water. put 1 teabag each of decaff green tea and peppermint tea in a seal-able container, then pour in boiling water.

8 PM: remove tea bags and put container into refrigerator. 

10:30 PM: drink half of delicious, refreshing iced tea beverage and get ready for bed - take an extra sip once relaxed and close to sleep.

~ 4 AM: drink the rest of the tea

--- repeat EVERY DAY 

OBSERVATIONS/RESEARCH QUESTIONS:

are the effects noticeable? (recall, LD more often)
do the effects increase after several days of drinking the tea?
.... etc.

i've had something like 40 LDs, so i'm mostly concerned about dream clarity and improving my LD frequency.

----------


## BigFan

> Alright well it is important to have a goal
> 
> Like next time I realize I'm dreaming, i want to do... (fly?) 
> 
> i think it helped for me because it helps get your mind set on lucid dreaming.
> 
> Well gotta get back to class...



I think its a good idea  :smiley: 





> Time to squeeze in another possible way.
> 
> I know it's hard to do but I had some successful sometimes high-level lucids by waking up for about 30mins while doing something that requires some kind of thinking yet somewhat relaxing. maybe coming on to the forums or reading your dream journal or simply just watching tv.
> 
> It may help. If you have trouble falling asleep, maybe you could do the whole meditation thing while laying down.



Sounds like a WBTB+DILD  :tongue2: 





> alright, i'm back home after being gone for a week and .. having no tea!!!  
> in that week i recalled (recorded) about 1 dream each morning (which is normal), dream vividness was slightly less than normal, and i had 1 DILD but was still unable to DEILD after a few weeks of working on this. i will keep my DEILD progress separate from this because it's irrelevant to a lucid aid. 
> 
> 
> "the ultimate aid" experiment no. 1 --- GREEN TEA/PEPPERMINT BLEND
> PROCEDURE:
> 
> 12 PM: boil water. put 1 teabag each of decaff green tea and peppermint tea in a seal-able container, then pour in boiling water.
> 
> ...



Interesting experiment. I don't have any peppermint tea, but, I'll see what I can cook up  ::D:  

As for my WBTB from a couple of days back, I woke up, put off the clock and was awake for 10-15 sec before I fell asleep again, lol, so, it didn't work. I'm trying to strength myself for a WILD after all the negativity that I've heard about SP and will report the results back here. I'll try to drink green tea today before bed and see if I get any results  :smiley:

----------


## lucidspark64

wow i just had the craziest nap yesterday

i was at my girlfriends house and we took a nap together and woke up and fell back asleep and had sleep paralysis. went through the same thing again and had a lucid dream. went through it again and i think i had a freaking OBE.

OBE: i felt the paralysis kick in and tried to focus on a dream but instead, i felt myself levetating and slowly back into bed. Then I sat up and knew it wasnt really physically me. I got up and looked back down at me and my girlfriend laying there. nothing was out of the ordinary from what i can see. infact, it was the way it should be. we were wearing the same clothes and sleeping on the same side.

the only thing is, i am trying to be skeptical about it. i dont want to think it actually hapened if it was only a lucid dream which is what I wrote in my journal. but i guess ill never know now if it was real or not. whether or not it was, it was some pretty freakin crazy sh!t...

i didnt take anything before then, but I was laying on my back which is pretty common when I experience sleep paralysis. it also seems i'm on my back a lot when I have a lucid dream. so i guess we got some other things to consider when we do our experiments.

do you take any naps bigfan? and have you ever tried a wbtb wild during the night? oh and thnx for the update cygnus 

 :smiley:

----------


## cygnus

that nap was pretty rad. spontaneous OBEs are interesting. i had one a few weeks ago - i guess i think it was an OBE because i projected from where my body was and then floated around my ceiling... real time zone i think it's called.... i don't know much about it.


got some supplements today! apple juice and b 50 complex (w/ choline). i think i'm going to see what happens when i gradually start to use some of this stuff i've got and increase the amount of aids in question. i also take an omega-3 fish oil capsule every night and sometimes zinc, so that's my baseline.

this week: tea + apple juice (some amount of b vit.)
next week: above + b complex (more b vit., some choline)
week after: above + hard boiled egg (more choline)
week after that: above + garlic

i guess i'll see when the effects begin to spike unless someone has a suggestion.

----------


## lucidspark64

i tried a WILD last night but I don't think I went to sleep soon enough because I barely remember anything when I hit my alarm.

I'll be sure to try again tonight and correct my time to sleep. I'll go ahead and throw in a banana while i'm at it.

----------


## BigFan

> wow i just had the craziest nap yesterday
> 
> i was at my girlfriends house and we took a nap together and woke up and fell back asleep and had sleep paralysis. went through the same thing again and had a lucid dream. went through it again and i think i had a freaking OBE.
> 
> OBE: i felt the paralysis kick in and tried to focus on a dream but instead, i felt myself levetating and slowly back into bed. Then I sat up and knew it wasnt really physically me. I got up and looked back down at me and my girlfriend laying there. nothing was out of the ordinary from what i can see. infact, it was the way it should be. we were wearing the same clothes and sleeping on the same side.
> 
> the only thing is, i am trying to be skeptical about it. i dont want to think it actually hapened if it was only a lucid dream which is what I wrote in my journal. but i guess ill never know now if it was real or not. whether or not it was, it was some pretty freakin crazy sh!t...
> 
> i didnt take anything before then, but I was laying on my back which is pretty common when I experience sleep paralysis. it also seems i'm on my back a lot when I have a lucid dream. so i guess we got some other things to consider when we do our experiments.
> ...



hmm, did this OBE feel any different from your other LDs or the same? Reason I ask is because people who have had both claim that they feel the difference  :smiley:  I used to take some naps, but, since I am trying to sleep earlier, I've decided to not take any otherwise I won't be able to sleep at night  :tongue2:  I haven't tried a WBTB+WILD during the night, but, I was planning on doing last night, however, I woke up, put off the clock and went back to sleep, so, sleeping earlier might have helped. I've been RCing more during the day and finally have lucid dreaming on my mind, so, we'll see if I get a DILD anytime soon  ::D:  I'll give green tea a try today, forgot to do so when I wrote that in my last post  :tongue2:

----------


## lucidspark64

the 1st night i said ill do it, i barely recall anything when my alarm woke me up. the 2nd, i remember to do a wild but fell asleep and i forgot to do the banana...

ill once again try tonight.  :smiley: 

well see.

----------


## BigFan

I'm in the same boat. I was planning to try a WBTB with a WILD but I couldn't get back to sleep after only 3h of sleep. I ended up crashing on the sofa a couple of hours later  :tongue2:  Anyways, I'll try WILDing again tonight  :smiley:

----------


## cygnus

hookay you guys. the tea really isn't having any noticeable effects - i'm not really surprised, we'd have to get someone to try green tea extract or something to have an amount that could really do anything. my recall last week was better when i was gone...

so -- i'm going to start taking my b complex again, establish a baseline with that (i'm sure we all know it's somewhat helpful), and then experiment with garlic pills (i don't know what it is in garlic that has an effect) and hard boiled eggs for more choline.

----------


## lucidspark64

Well I did the banana the other night but I barely even remember waking up. I think I may have to add something with maybe a little more wake to it like coke (i know i know bad for yah). Or maybe a b-complex like cygnus.

These WBTBs aren't working for me so I might try a later time. So maybe instead of 3:30, I could try 4:30.

I took another nap yesterday and had that WILD feeling again as I briefly woke up and drifted back to sleep. And I had a brief, observant lucid dream. Like I was watching t.v. and I knew I was just dreaming. Nothing really too special but atleast I was kind of aware.

do you guys have a daily routine? and how often do you have lucid dreams cygnus?

----------


## XxParadoxX

> I heard somewhere that milk helps also...Calcium perhaps?



Milk conatins L-tryptophan. L-tryptophan gives you clear dreams. I take it in a supplement capsule form everynight before bed.

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## cygnus

yeah, the last time i took a b-complex regularly my dreams were consistently vivid. i'm sure we'll come up with an effectiveness rating for aids at some point on this thread haha. i've also found that ginseng (pills) and DMAE make me a little more alert and have contributed to a few nice LDs. too bad i don't have any of that stuff now. 

i have something like 4 or 5 LDs a month....but, i've been in the process of re-doing my technique. there have been times when i've had them on 3 consecutive days or linked a few in one night. i've found that WILD absolutely does not work for me, but i've had a few really nice DEILDs before i even new about the method, so that's what i'm working on now. 

i started working on this almost a month ago and i'm still in the process of training myself to wake up around 4 am while remaining still, and then doing a FILD. i just have to be patient... i know it'll work really well for me in the long run because there were a couple times i randomly DEILDed and they were way more stable than the typical DILD. erg, patience...

my daily routine is the result of a couple of years of trying a lot of different stuff and weeding out the things that are kind of empty and just the "coloring" of a certain lucid dreaming culture, if you will, like tibetan dream yoga or what carlos castaneda did. 

..i'm kind of methodical and hyper-organized. i wake up and write in my dream journal, then type it up on my computer and color code the important things, add any reoccuring themes to my monthly summary, and rate my recall quality and add a LD tally to my charts that follow my progress. throughout the day i do my reality check (i won't get into detail), and a couple of times i will imagine that i have just become lucid and i physically act out my stabilization technique. i also meditate at least once during the day. before bed i take my supplements and meditate again. then i do a few minutes of energy raising, fall asleep, and try to make some progress with my DEILD - i'm starting a new alarm method now that i made up.


so, to recap (pertaining to lucid aids):

more potent supplements include (based on my experience):

b-complex
dmae (from fish oils)
ginseng

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## lucidspark64

well i set my alarm for 4 but i forgot to turn up the volume...  :Sad: 

i guess ill have to remember to do that and yeah you get the idea.

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## cygnus

from hellohihello::




> Mint tea works for me. Green tea kills my recall so hard.



i think i agree. my recall is actually better now that i'm not drinking green tea before bed. overall, the week i was gone my recall was good...so i guess we could take this off our list.

and in regard to choline, my b-complex has 50mg, and an egg has about 112mg. next week i'm going to start eating a hard-boiled egg around bed time so i can try to gauge how much has an effect.

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## lucidspark64

it's been hard for me to get on a computer lately. well i tried a fish oil before bed the other night and although it was harder to sleep, i did have SP during the night and a brief lucid dream.

so maybe i could try it again.

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## lucidspark64

i tried the fish oil again last night and i really think I might of had something.

the recall of the dream is bad but i think I might of had a dream where I was almost lucid. i just get that damn feeling.

i guess so far for me, the fish oil is doing something. i think i'm going to try it with a WBTB instead of right before bed. maybe because dreams early in the night are hard to recall and are likely less vivid. and since maybe i took it right before bed, it probably only occured with the earlier dreams.

so since dreams in the early morning are more vivid and easily recalled, i'll try the fish oil at maybe about 3:30-4:00 and see what happens.

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## cygnus

> so since dreams in the early morning are more vivid and easily recalled, i'll try the fish oil at maybe about 3:30-4:00 and see what happens.



you would be fine taking it right before bed. fish oil isn't like sugar or something whose effects only last for a short time. omega 3 fatty acids help your brain function well and i wouldn't really call it a lucid aid per se although it can't hurt.

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## lucidspark64

Well I have been trying it and although I have had longer dreams and good recall, I still have those feelings that I have been lucid at some point during the night. Like my lucid dream occured in the earlier hours.

I took it at 4am last night but cannot remember as much. Maybe I should start taking it before bed again like how you suggested cygnus.

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## cygnus

> Maybe I should start taking it before bed again



yeah, it's generally easier for your body to process that stuff when you're sleeping.


**something i've noticed: it seems that when i take a number of aids all at once my recall isn't really heightened, it's like they're interacting and throwing off my brain chemistry. for example, the other day before bed i had a hard boiled egg, apple juice, a banana w/ peanut butter, and my normal supplements... my recall was actually worse. 

i think i'm going to keep it simple and take a b-complex OR some other aid. i'll see what happens...

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## lucidspark64

> **something i've noticed: it seems that when i take a number of aids all at once my recall isn't really heightened




yeah just found that out last night
i tried a combination of the fish oil and a b-complex before bed. when I woke up, i couldnt remember anything really until I got hinted later.

 I actually did have 2 dreams that both involved some constructive thinking. like putting together a computer piece, and playing a guitar. They weren't any more vivid than any other dream though and they didnt last very long from what I recall.

Maybe i will try again but if I get the same results, I'll switch back to fish-oil alone and see if maybe it is the combo that messed it up. then maybe switch over to the b-complex.

bigfan hasnt posted in a while. i assume he's still experiemnting though.

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## lucidspark64

ok so i tried it again last night (fish-oil + b-complex) and even though I think I had a longer dream, I still had bad recall upon awakening.

so tonight, i'll try fish-oil alone to see if i get the same results as before.

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## cygnus

you could also try fish oil in the morning and b-complex before bed - i think i might try that. i need to figure out some way to use my other aids without wasting them haha. you could also just be experiencing a periodic dip in your recall - mine fluctuates a bit every week or so.

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## Vanota

I had two glasses of orange juice last night along with a lemon poppyseed muffin... 3 LD's! Noting that I do not have OJ often. Will continue experiments.

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## Liz

The cheapests aids are massage, prayer, meditation, and  breathing techniques.  These are activities that stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system and can increase REM sleep.

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## Dream scientist

> Salmon sandwich.



I don't care if it would help with lucidity...

If they came up with that, my house would be full of them! ::D: 




Edit: I just had an epiphany.

Is anyone else thinking about lox and bagels?  ::?:

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## cygnus

> Edit: I just had an epiphany.
> 
> Is anyone else thinking about lox and bagels?




holy crap bagels and lox and shmear and lemon juice! gaaah i want some! (and if they are an aid, well that's even better)

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## Dream scientist

Great minds think alike...
Mmm...bagels...
But what is Shmear?

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## cygnus

schmear/shmear is delicious, sometimes flavored cream cheese that is light and whipped and not all processed and shitty like the philadelphia stuff.

the jewish part of me wants it more often than is reasonable!

i'll have to see the effect these dream bagels have.

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## Dream scientist

I thought they sounded jewish. I'm a little hebrew myself!




> I'll have to see the effect these dream bagels have.



Dream Bagels! Priceless! ::laughhard::

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## sleepyzac

i'm going to try b vitamins, fish oil pills, and take theanine capsules tonight.

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