# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  Why You Fail at WILDs

## Mzzkc

In the following post I will be sharing insights I have gained over the past two years in regards to the fine art known as WILDing. Keep in mind, all of this comes from personal experience, and you should probably take it with a grain of salt, much like the title of this thread.

Prepare yourself. A wall of text awaits!

*My history:*

When I first learned about LDing, I became immediately drawn toward the phenomena referred to as a Wake Induced Lucid Dream. _Wow!_ I thought, _A way to become lucid any time I want? Sign me up!_ I did my research right here on DV, learning the 'ins and outs' of WILDing from your typical WILD related posts. My early readings did include Jeff's famous "How to Trick Your Body Into Falling Asleep" thread, but the majority of my initial knowledge came from threads similar to this. 

Ever an eager noob, I often committed the cardinal sin of attempting a WILD before racking up a decent amount of sleep beforehand. During these attempts, which were doomed to fail from the start, I would utilize my shoddy knowledge of what I believed the 'proper technique' was, keeping track of the 'stages' as I went. All my time and energy would go into performing this super-cool thing called a WILD. Hell, I once spent a good four hours on one attempt. My commitment was met with resounding failure. Obviously, dedication alone wasn't cutting it. Broader research would be needed if I was going to figure out how to pull this off.

Utilizing the search function, I garnered even more information about how others had achieved their WILDs, all the while trying to WILD in my free time by making use of every new tidbit and little known 'fact' I had learned. And still, after months of trying, I was getting nowhere pretty freakin' fast. Then, one fateful school night, I did it. I accomplished, almost effortlessly, a feat that had eluded me all that time. But I was baffled as to how. My first WILD occurred late at night, after I had awoken in the middle of a sleep cycle. As I drifted back to sleep, somehow, someway, I had retained consciousness all the way into the dream state.

Despite that glimpse of success, for well over a year, I would remain oblivious to the most blatantly obvious thing about WILDing. During that time, I would begin development on a number of my own techniques, all based on the findings of others, all of which weren't wildly successful (Har har). It wasn't until I started focusing on my own experiences that real progress commenced. 

*Why you should care:*

How about because I could potentially, right here, right now, save you a huge portion of the time and trouble I went through in order to reach that point where WILDing became par for the course. Sound good? Then go back and read the above if you haven't already. . . lazy bum.

Done already? 

Good. 

Now for the meaty stuff.

*Analyzing the past:*

I believe my story is an excellent example of a typical fledgling WILDer. Eager to learn, but searching in all the wrong places. WILDing, like just about everything concerning LDs, is a personal experience. You can only get so far on the accomplishments of others. To truly be successful, you have to dig deep and do a crap ton of introspection in order to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Of course, that's nothing new, everyone who's done decent research and has a fair amount of experience has probably come to the same conclusion a dozen times over.

*My "Contribution":*

So what can I possibly offer that's new, unique, and exciting? Unfortunately, as I've said before, what I discovered was so ridiculously obvious that everyone already knows what is. In fact, it lies at the very root of the definition itself.

WILD - To fall asleep, into a dream state, while retaining consciousness. 

"To fall asleep,"

Now, before you ZOMG RAGE QUIT! let me explain the implications of these three words. By the generally accepted definition of a WILD, it is impossible to WILD without first falling asleep. Secondary to falling asleep is maintaining awareness of the event. Key word: Secondary.

All this emphasis is being placed on the awareness part, but what's sorely missing is respect for the most basic and fundamental part of WILDing. That, I feel, is the key to successful WILDs. It is, after all, what I've based my current method on. In fact, my very first WILD was a result of this exact concept.

*Applications:*
This theory is all well and good, but you're probably wondering about practical applications. Below I will outline the steps I followed to turn this idea into something usable. Hopefully, this will be enough to get some of you jump started on finding your own WILD style.

*Learn the basics.*
At the end of this post I shall provide a list of information every WILDer should know. I insist you do your own research on each one.*Figure out the most opportune time to WILD.*
This will always be whenever you are closest to a REM period. Typically, six hours after first falling asleep is a good time, but it can vary from person to person. For instance, I generally need eight. However, I've found naps to be an even better time to WILD. The trick here is that the time should be one in which you are not only close to REM, but also one where you are tired enough to fall asleep very easily.*Recognize what happens when falling asleep.*
This is pretty straightforward. Simply recall moments where you were about to fall asleep, but were suddenly forced into alertness. Those with WILDs already under their belt can use those experiences to help better determine even more of what goes on when falling asleep.*Don't WILD.*
"Lawl, wut?" What this means is that when making an attempt, the focus should be put on falling asleep, first and foremost. Don't try to recognize SP, don't do anything you wouldn't normally do to help yourself fall asleep. Things like Reverse Blinking, if they work for you, are totally okay, as long as the point of the exercise is to help you sleep.*Work on Awareness*
Finding something that helps keep you aware, without hindering your ability to sleep is what you're aiming for here. Common sense and experimentation will prove the most beneficial.
*Tips For Success:*

Know how sleep works.Don't get caught up on SP.It's okay to swallow, really.Experiment when appropriate, but try to stay consistent as much as possible.Afternoon naps can often be great times to WILD.Start attempts in a comfortable position.Don't stress out about moving.But try not to move unless absolutely necessary.FALL ASLEEP!

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## ClearView

This is great! When I joined I was drawn to WILD's as well. I have been attempting WILD's every night, but I haven't had any great success. My usual failure is when I start counting, and I would find myself lost in my mind therefore losing my count and starting over. Is there any way that you can make yourself stay focused on just counting?

Thanks for sharing this.
-CV

Edit: I should say, I know my REM times, sleep patterns, dream signs, and other things. I'm really interested in learning to LD specifically in the WILD category, and I know I have come to the right place to discuss this, and learn more from what you can share.

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## LucidApprentice

Nice tutorial, this is sort of my technique too. I find the typical WILD tutorial stating the complete opposite though: Wait for pictures, stay perfectly still, wait until you hear something, etc, and stay aware (which through those instructions basically means stay awake). Just falling asleep at the right time is the most important step in my opinion. If fact, if I wake up at the right time it's impossible for me not to WILD  :smiley:

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## Mzzkc

> This is great! When I joined I was drawn to WILD's as well. I have been attempting WILD's every night, but I haven't had any great success. My usual failure is when I start counting, and I would find myself lost in my mind therefore losing my count and starting over. Is there any way that you can make yourself stay focused on just counting?
> 
> Thanks for sharing this.
> -CV



When I messed around with counting and other mental activities, I found the most success when I didn't focus on counting 'right' per se. It's perfectly alright to skip or repeat numbers, in fact I've had quite a few WILDs where I was able to keep awareness by repeating the same thing in my head over and over again. The important thing, that I really want to reiterate, is you make the counting a secondary mental process. Let it run by itself, keeping tabs on it, but otherwise not playing a heavily active role in its progression. That should help make it easier to actually fall asleep.

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## ClearView

Ah Fair Enough. Will give the "odd sequence of counting" a go tonight and see if I get different results. Thanks a bunch again  :smiley: 

-CV

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## zebrah

Nice guide I'll give this a try combined with SD-WILD right now.

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## Nighthog

Great guide. 

Falling asleep in the first place is key! I had just started kind of become leaning into this and BAM! you have a complete guide to detail it in faster for me.

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## hgld1234

I like the fact you put a lot of emphasis on sleep. Most of the time there is a lot of emphasis on awareness, but I find actively being aware (ie trying trying trying) does not work. Good tutorial!

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## Mzzkc

Thanks for the feedback guys!

It looks like the intended message is getting across, but if there are any outstanding questions I left unanswered please let me know.

Thanks again,

-Mzzkc

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## Miomek

> Thanks for the feedback guys!



No, I thank you! 
This is exactly what i was beginning to see.
The point is not to WILD while WILDing. lol
Who would have thought. :smiley: 

Oh, and by the way i think the thread should be sticky.
It really can save tons of unsuccessful attempts.

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## Molder

Great tutorial, man. Like pretty much everything, in order to WILD successfully, you just gotta do it, instead of THINKING how you're gonna do it.  :tongue2:

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## Motley

Hey man great post. I am just wondering how long this takes usually? How long do you stay up?

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## Anglarest

Really interesting that I came up to this thread and the OP mentioned about recognize when falling asleep. I recently determined is that when I start thinking about retarded and abstract stuff that sometimes end up on hypnic jerks.

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## Mzzkc

> Hey man great post. I am just wondering how long this takes usually? How long do you stay up?



It really depends on how tired I am and how quickly I can stop consciously controlling my thoughts.

For afternoon naps where I got less than 5 hours of sleep the night before: a couple of minutes.

For WBTBs: Anywhere between 5 minutes to half an hour.

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## Motley

I see... So not that long. 

Now I don't know because I want to give this a try but I also started working a bit with MILD and don't want to stop. 

Again, I am where you were at the beginning- thinking about what technique to work on for a while. If i can't stay up long at night because of school, I should do MILD, right?

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## Mzzkc

You could still WBTB if you wanted. My WBTB routine consists of getting up, going to the bathroom, and laying back down to WILD.

That's something I forgot to touch on. 

If you wake yourself up too much during a WBTB, you won't be able to fall back asleep easily enough. Sure it's good for awareness, and that's why a majority of people recommend doing it, but if you can't fall asleep then you're SOL. 

I provided my solution to the WBTB issue, but some more experienced WILDers actually begin their attempts mere minutes after waking up. However, you really need to have a strong sense of awareness to do that.

Beside that, MILDs are pretty awesome, and I don't want to dissuade you from pursuing proficiency in that technique, but WILDs aren't as time consuming as people make them out to be.

Either way, what you decide to do is your choice.

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## ClearView

Mzzkc, I have been working on WILD's every night, with the same patterns. However, for some reason I am not getting anywhere. I am doing everything by the book. 

My exact pattern:
Go to sleep normally at 9:30
Wake up at 3:30.
I go to the bathroom. (1 minute)
Lay down, make sure my alarm is on for class.
I lay on my back with my hands at my sides, and I count.
I usually pass 300, and then I guess I can say I give up. I don't feel anything different, no Paralysis, HI or anything.
If I am not asleep already, sometimes I twitch. I would be thinking of something and I would twitch. 
For example, one day I played a good amount of Call of Duty. Memories of the gameplay were in my mind while I went to sleep. I have no idea if this could be classified as HI or something, but I see the scene in my head and not before my eyes like HI is supposed to be. If I would see like a player run by, instinctivly my finger would twitch where the shoot button would be on the controller. 

However, this is not my concern. I have not been able to reach SP or anything of that kind for over 2 weeks. My dream recall is at 3-4, and thats about it.. Still no Ld's or anything of that kind. 

Any ideas?
-CV

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## Mzzkc

Technically, what you describes constitutes HH with a small bit of hypnic jerking thrown in, so you are getting somewhere. XP

Question: Do you normally sleep on your back, or do you sleep on your side when not WILDing?

That's important. If you normally sleep on your side, you'll want to make your attempts on your side as well. Hand and arm placement should also match your normal sleep position.

If that's actually the way you go to sleep, then you might want to consider a different awareness technique, or at the very least try a little while longer. Your experiences indicate you're reaching the beginning stages of sleep. If you give up at that point, then you really aren't going to get anywhere. I personally don't give up on WILD attempts until I pass the 30 minute mark.

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## Nighthog

I've been working more on this Wild technique and have had more success but I still have a little to many times where I loose my awareness as I enter the dream. 

It's a fine balance there to have just enough awareness to spot when you are asleep and then having to much awareness keeping you away from falling asleep.

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## ClearView

Ah, fair enough Mzzkc. I usually do fall asleep on my side, however when attempting WILD's I lay on my back, and sometimes if I don't want to WILD one night, and I can't fall asleep, sometimes switching to my back works like a charm. I'll try a WILD on my side tonight, and see where I get. I won't give up this time. If I am tired, could you give me a very rough estimate of how long the count may be? I have tried the skip-counting, but it doesn't make much of a difference to me. I really hope to master the WILD by the end of the summer. I will have a LOT of time to dedicate  ::D: 

-CV

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## Mzzkc

If you spend a second on each count, no more than 1800. =P

Again, just be sure you don't consciously control the counting. If you find that too hard to do, you might want to try a different awareness method. As it is, counting never worked well for me, but I don't see why it couldn't for someone else.

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## ClearView

Wow 1800? Thats a bit high no? I asked Ninja about the counting thing, and I know its different for everyone but he said he usually is already in the Dream State at 250. Big difference there, but nonetheless its different for everyone. Last night, I did not wake to my alarm or maybe I just didn't remember. I'll put my alarm on the other side of my room this time.

-CV

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## Genin

Took ~ 10 seconds for me some nights ago  :smiley:  didnt count or anything but as soon as I mentally said, "okay, I'll enter SP willingly", a few seconds after that I was in. The willingly part is because I've always been afraid of sp, it wasnt til a few days ago that I found this site and learned more. So now I can easily WILD during nighttime after a few hours of sleep. What Im currently working on is successfully WILD during daytime, afternoon for example. No success so far... Havent spent more than 45 minutes on it each time tho.

Btw ClearView, try and stop thinking about it? Use your ears instead, might sound weird.. But there is a possibilty to keep awareness simply buy listening. Not focusing too hard tho, still you need to allow your body to think that you're asleep. I usually start hearing vibrations after a while, sometimes as loud as drumming against my ears.  :Oh noes:

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## ClearView

Wow 10 seconds really? I'll try listening, and I never get paralyzed but I don't worry about that too much.

-CV

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## StareHed

I have a question for you Mzzkc, 

You are saying that falling asleep is the most important step of a WILD, which I like because up till now I haven't actually read anything that places the due importance on actually falling asleep. Anyways I tend to be an "energetic sleeper" as I like to call it. Which means that my routine of falling asleep usually consists of much scratching, rolling, changing of positions, re-situating of blankets etc. and overall a lot of movement. Now for most of my WILD attempts I have stuck to the rigorous guideline of no-movement whatsoever. I have attempted WILD's both on my back and side, my side being my normal sleeping position. But I have never moved, this often results in me thinking about how much I would like to itch that itch in that spot, and that other spot, and that third spot, or me thinking of how nice it would be to move my hand out from under the much-to-hot blanket and into the relieving cool air of on top of my belly. 
Anyways you said; I quote:





> don't do anything you wouldn't normally do to help yourself fall asleep



Does this mean that it is okay for me to partake in my normal falling asleep routine and still be able to WILD?
or am I doomed to be mocked by unyielding itches on my face and other such places if I am to ever be a successful WILD'er?

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## Motley

I tried this technique today during a nap, I was dying of sleepiness and still had a night of homework ahead.  I turned on the AC and tried to focus on that but but quickly lost consciousness. What did I do wrong and what else can I use to keep consciousness? Counting has always made me sleepy too and I usually end up passing out.

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## Mzzkc

> I have a question for you Mzzkc, 
> 
> You are saying that falling asleep is the most important step of a WILD, which I like because up till now I haven't actually read anything that places the due importance on actually falling asleep. Anyways I tend to be an "energetic sleeper" as I like to call it. Which means that my routine of falling asleep usually consists of much scratching, rolling, changing of positions, re-situating of blankets etc. and overall a lot of movement. Now for most of my WILD attempts I have stuck to the rigorous guideline of no-movement whatsoever. I have attempted WILD's both on my back and side, my side being my normal sleeping position. But I have never moved, this often results in me thinking about how much I would like to itch that itch in that spot, and that other spot, and that third spot, or me thinking of how nice it would be to move my hand out from under the much-to-hot blanket and into the relieving cool air of on top of my belly. 
> 
> Does this mean that it is okay for me to partake in my normal falling asleep routine and still be able to WILD?
> or am I doomed to be mocked by unyielding itches on my face and other such places if I am to ever be a successful WILD'er?




I am of the opinion you can move as much as you want to during an attempt in order to get comfortable. That's not the usual consensus, but I see comfort as a priority during attempts. Yes, it's probably not the best idea to move about constantly, but if you need to move around before you can fall asleep, feel free. 

One thing I know for sure: scratching an itch is fine and only sets you back as much as you let it. The important thing is you don't focus on it. Scratch it and be done with it.

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## StareHed

I look forward to seeing what new results this more relaxed approach can generate, I appreciate it Mzzkc.

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## Mzzkc

> I tried this technique today during a nap, I was dying of sleepiness and still had a night of homework ahead.  I turned on the AC and tried to focus on that but but quickly lost consciousness. What did I do wrong and what else can I use to keep consciousness? Counting has always made me sleepy too and I usually end up passing out.



I think it's important to note what I shared isn't a technique. It's an idea designed to help people develop and/or perfect their own WILD method. As it is, finding the best way to anchor yourself is up to you, I personally don't use anything anymore, but anchors do make things easier for most people.

Anchors can be anything external that doesn't greatly impact your ability to fall asleep. For instance, noise, temperature variations, wind from a fan, wearing/not wearing socks or other clothes are all possible anchors. Then there are internal ways to keep awareness like counting, repeating a phrase, etc. 

My advice to you: keep at the AC thing for awhile, as it's a fairly good idea as long as it's loud enough. One attempt just isn't enough to see if it's right for you. If it's still failing 15+ attempts later and you know there's nothing you can personally do to better your results, conduct some research and try something different.

Remember, even with the knowledge I've shared throughout this thread, WILDs still take a lot of practice.

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## bt5

Hi Mzzkc, I am trying to achieve WILD for few days and I keep failing in it.Today I tried like 7-8 times, spend whole day in bed with no success  :tongue2:  Problem is if I focus to be asleep I fell asleep and had normal dreams. But If I focus on being awake, I awake for hours. What should I do to bring my consciousness? I tried counting and counted to 900 in same position without moving, It took like 30-40 mins and nothing happened. I have few questions if you are or anyone that experienced in WILD can answer, I will be happy  :smiley: 

- How much time should it take achieve WILD? If its variable for person to person, what is Min or Max time?
So if it was like 10 mins, and if I spend 90 mins on same thing, instead of working one, i will prefer to try it for 9 times  :tongue2:  Normally I fell asleep in like 10 minutes. I think it should work in 10 mins, right?

- How can I know I get SP? or Is it important to know?
Okay I feel some  tingle and vibration. Then a little sense is lost from my hands, arms and some parts of my body. But none of them is completely lost. And I feel my body on the bed. And after 1 hours of same position If I want to change my position I can. Seems I don't get SP... But when I move after 1 hour, every part of me vibrates a little. And I am asking myself "Am I broke SP period?" 

- How to bring consciousness to dream? Or How you guys spend your time between lying bed to lucid dream?
Should I count? or Count my breathe? or construct the dream itself? like imagining some random place and put myself on it?
Sometimes my mind plays music... Should I mute it or listen it over and over?
Should focus? Focus on what?

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## Mzzkc

I've already gone over all of your questions in this thread. Hell, one of them was even discussed in the OP.

I'd really like you to 'get it', but if you don't take the time to read and understand what's already been covered, that's on you.

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## starzandstripes

I think one of the greates obstacles to overcome in order to have WILD's is fear.  The common thing is to read the word fear and immediately form an opinion, I agree or disagree.  However whether you do or do not agree, think about fear and what it actually represents.  Its all encompassing in many people's lives.  Much of the conditioning done by society and the decisions that are made, are influenced greatly by fear.  To discover the true magnitude of fear, think, I mean really think about how much its a pat of your life, a part of our society, a part of yourself or people you know and love.  If you are having trouble with WILD's, I strongly suggest you take a good, long, hard and very self honest look at fear and see how it impacts you life as a whole.  Being honest with yourself is the hardest part because many times you lack the true desire or awareness to look at fear and recognize it for what it is.   My point here is not to induce or scare anyone, but rather to open your awareness up to a real possibility as to why you may be failing when trying to WILD.

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## PercyLucid

This is different to what I always heard.  I will attempt this way.

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## Skydreamer707

I agree 100%. this is something i realized as well after researching the WILD guides. the fatal flaw in ALL of them is that they fail to mention that you just need to go bed (fall asleep) as you usually do but  watch the entire thing. in fact i learned to WILD by accident one night when i wanted to attempt WILDing but was too tired to count numbers and go through all those relaxation techniques and daydreamed instead, creating a awareness as i fell asleep. I think guides over complicate things when in fact its so simple.you dont even need any steps! Your own Experiences is the number one thing that will help you Get lucid, not fancy complicated guides. Experimenting and trying new things and twists on guides is what has helped me get the most success. More newbies need to be told this before hand but i guess it really isnt something you can teach :/ in fact im sure i wouldn't have understood this post had i not learned this myself the hard way. As a result you can try to teach this, but i think its as impossible as trying to teach the wisdom of experience. you learn from what you do, not from what you read. But, im ranting >_> you get double thumbs up! :bravo:

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## Restless

Wow, great thread, I really liked your post, but here's my problem;

So I tried WILDing this morning, I did WBTB at 5:30 in the morning, and I went to bed at 12:30, so that's 5 hours. Unfortunately I wasn't very tired (which is strange because I only slept for 5 hours...) but I WILDed anyways, after about 15 minutes, I started half dozing off, but right when I was at the edge of consciousness, I felt like a wave of energy surge through my body, I felt a few more, but then they stopped. I was still partially paralysed, but nothing more happened, so I waited about 20 more minutes, and nothing happened. I think it may have been because those waves sort of woke me up, and I got excited. What am I doing wrong, and what are some tips, or advice on how to stay tired, yet focused at the same time?

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## Folqueraine

I think your thread highlighted a key point in WILDing, namely (in my case anyway), that the only time I successfully WILDed was a night when I wasn't trying to.

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## Mzzkc

> Wow, great thread, I really liked your post, but here's my problem;
> 
> So I tried WILDing this morning, I did WBTB at 5:30 in the morning, and I went to bed at 12:30, so that's 5 hours. Unfortunately I wasn't very tired (which is strange because I only slept for 5 hours...) but I WILDed anyways, after about 15 minutes, I started half dozing off, but right when I was at the edge of consciousness, I felt like a wave of energy surge through my body, I felt a few more, but then they stopped. I was still partially paralysed, but nothing more happened, so I waited about 20 more minutes, and nothing happened. I think it may have been because those waves sort of woke me up, and I got excited. What am I doing wrong, and what are some tips, or advice on how to stay tired, yet focused at the same time?



You got pretty close, but most likely paid the sensations too much attention. Simply acknowledging their existence is all you should really be doing, but even then it's best to just ignore them. The more control over your emotions you have, the easier this is to do.

Another red flag I'm seeing here is that you "*waited* about 20 more minutes." There shouldn't be any waiting done while WILDing. And if you are waiting for _anything_ in your WILD attempts, then I highly suggest you rethink your approach.

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## Zenman

I definitely think you're on to something here Mzzkc.  During successful WILDS, I spend between 20 and 60 minutes relaxing, feeling energy build up, counting my "chakras" over and over, listening to the fan, staring into my eyelids etc.  Eventually there is a pause.  I think the pause is me falling asleep.  Then I mysteriously find myself waking up in the vibrations/sounds.  I never know how long the pause was.  It could be one second, or it could be 15 minutes.  There's no way to know because there is no memory recording the passage of time during the pause.    After the vibrations my dream body can leave the bed.

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## Baggins

... MIND = BLOWN!

Amazing is the only way I can describe this tutorial! I had to read it twice before it really sank in but it all just makes perfect sense.

Thank you, Mzzkc!

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## Robot_Butler

I move around a bit before falling asleep.  Go ahead and scratch, shift, and fidget all you want.  That is all part of what relaxes you for sleep.  Think of it as the relaxation stage outlined in most WILD guides.  After all that, when you feel like you are at the point where you are about to drift off, start your awareness exercise.  You need to be real close to sleep, hovering right on the edge before you can really hit it hard with WILD.

Many WILD guides rely on some sort of trance induction to get you close to a sleeping state.  This is fine, if it works for you.  If you have a history with meditation or trance induction, go for it.  If you can't bring yourself to this state by force of will (like 99.99% of us), just rely on what you naturally do every night.  Your normal routine for falling asleep is essentially the same thing.

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## Mzzkc

> I move around a bit before falling asleep.  Go ahead and scratch, shift, and fidget all you want.  That is all part of what relaxes you for sleep.  Think of it as the relaxation stage outlined in most WILD guides.  After all that, when you feel like you are at the point where you are about to drift off, start your awareness exercise.  You need to be real close to sleep, hovering right on the edge before you can really hit it hard with WILD.
> 
> Many WILD guides rely on some sort of trance induction to get you close to a sleeping state.  This is fine, if it works for you.  If you have a history with meditation or trance induction, go for it.  If you can't bring yourself to this state by force of will (like 99.99% of us), just rely on what you naturally do every night.  Your normal routine for falling asleep is essentially the same thing.



It's unfortunate that this isn't as obvious as it should be. Perhaps the biggest point of this thread was to bring to the forefront a simple fact that most up-and-coming WILDers fail to recognize. This failure (which I believe originates from a gross misunderstanding of the WILD process, due largely to how most WILD tutorials have been presented over the years) often results in these individuals going about their attempts in less than productive ways. Although I don't claim that this idea is in any way new (it's in the definition of the term for crying out loud), I think you'd be surprised by how much of a difference it makes to go into attempts with the mindset of falling asleep, instead of the more common 'WILD mentality.' That alone was enough of a tip to help a friend of mine break her WILD dry spell on her very next attempt.

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## Connermac

Would a possible awareness exercise be to put on music and try to register the lyrics? I'm a singer, so listening to lyrics is a natural think for me, but could the sound of a human voice throw off my ability to fall asleep in the end?

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## BigFan

Great tutorial. I think this was something that most WILDs missed. The idea of falling asleep is very fundamental to WILD because if you are focusing on staying awake, well, guess you, you will stay awake. Originally, when I started WILDing, I would do this mistake but then I noticed that I have to fall asleep while retaining awareness which is what I've been practicing since. I haven't had much success yet though, since, I haven't done much WILDing afterwards. I think people should just sleep like normal, but, keep the idea of staying aware in the back of their minds, this way they aren't disturbing their sleep but will still become awaren when the shift is happening or is over  :smiley:

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## Mzzkc

> Would a possible awareness exercise be to put on music and try to register the lyrics? I'm a singer, so listening to lyrics is a natural think for me, but could the sound of a human voice throw off my ability to fall asleep in the end?



I've had several successful WILDs where I used music (with lyrics) as an anchor. However, I stopped doing that because the music would transfer over into the dream state and distract the hell out of me.

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## ultimatedood

thanks. I joined because of WILD.
I tried it about 10 times and just gave up.

When I tried it I would have a growing itch, getting wider, and worse, until I just couldn't take it anymore. Then I had to move. I itched it quickly and moved back (my thoughts said I wasted 20 minutes). Then it still itched and I rolled over itching everything that itched until I had no more itches, falling asleep to have non-lucid dreams.

----------


## matthew123

recently i tried to wild for my first time and counted as my anchor around 100 or so i started to forget about it i didnt count or repeat any numbers but some 10 seconds later i would remember and count though i would keep losing my focus. but i managed to get SP. so is this wat you mean by keeping tabs on it or am i doing it wrong

----------


## Mzzkc

You shouldn't be putting any focus on the counting. It should be a mental process that occurs on entirely separate level from your main stream of consciousness. Quite honestly, I really don't recommend you use counting as an awareness technique if you don't already have the capacity for thinking on several levels at once. But even _in_ those cases, it's still more suited for relaxation purposes than anything else.

----------


## Reinhardt

So forget the tutorials where one should focus on not moving and not scratching ect. . . and just fall asleep naturally but just before you doze off you focus on something like counting or music am i getting this wrong? Can i listen to iso-tones?

----------


## Mzzkc

Kinda. I wouldn't knock the other tutorials, as some of them can be very helpful. Really, what I presented here is a mindset I feel people should approach WILDing with. Putting the focus on falling asleep first and foremost oftentimes yields better results than when one puts all their attention on maintaining awareness and "performing a WILD."

I don't see a problem with using iso-tones, as long as you can fall asleep with them on.

----------


## Reinhardt

Nice I get your drift, especially for people who struggle falling asleep in general this method will be best suited. Thx mate

----------


## bbbblaahhh

Dear Mzzkc,

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

I joined this site _last night_ and read this thread _last night_.

Taking your advice, I woke up after 6 hours of regular sleep with my alarm. I wrote my previous dream down in my journal, and tried your "shift" on the take of WILDing; changing the focus of WILD. I literally just let myself relax, but kept thoughts of lucidity and consciousness on the mind all the while.

I had an hour+ long, photorealistic, fully conscious lucid dream. ._____.

I really just shifted the focus of WILDing from _staying awake_ while sleeping to _falling asleep_ while conscious. Anyway, I fell asleep... there were a lot of gaps of consciousness before entering my dream -- periods of blank-mindedness, but really trying to be aware of everything the whole time -- which leads me to believe that I may not have awoken (with my 6-hour alarm) right before my next REM cycle. That I might have been too early with that alarm -- I might've needed to set it to 7 hours after I originally fell asleep.

But during my sleep, I kept my conscious mind aware of it, accepting it. Before I knew it, I "fell" into my dream (I actually fell onto some pavement in my dream) and immediately asked myself, "Did I honestly just do that?" (meaning, did that WILD stuff honestly just work?)

There's far too much to tell about my dream here, so I won't bother. I doubt this is even the place to do it.

Anyway, I literally love you, and I thank you for one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. I'll never forget my first fully lucid, fully conscious dream.

P.S. I'm not entirely sure if this would be considered a WILD. I fell asleep, and had that consciousness about me, and immediately recognized that the conscious sleeping had worked when I fell into my dream, but I didn't see hypnogogic imagery or feel sleep paralysis during this period of falling asleep. Do you think it was WILD?

----------


## Mzzkc

> Do you think it was WILD?



Most definitely. =)

I am overjoyed I was able to help you have this experience. 

Seriously. That's the reason I wrote this whole thing up.

----------


## Speesh

I must extend my gratitude as well! I worked diligently on WILDing for a long time a few months ago. I made what seemed like significant progress, but after a while of "close calls" any progress started to seem like teasing. I got frustrated and decided that WILD just wasn't my method. However the few times I did get really close, I didn't understand why. I think what you've described there might just be the key I was looking for. Starting in about 6.5 hours, I will begin trying again!

----------


## Mzzkc

> i must extend my gratitude as well! I worked diligently on wilding for a long time a few months ago. I made what seemed like significant progress, but after a while of "close calls" any progress started to seem like teasing. I got frustrated and decided that wild just wasn't my method. However the few times i did get really close, i didn't understand why. I think what you've described there might just be the key i was looking for. Starting in about 6.5 hours, i will begin trying again!



SO, HOW'D IT GO?

RIP Billy Mays

----------


## Rathez

I will give this a go when I get home from work and report back with my experience.

----------


## samf

how do you remain aware while falling asleep? To me, falling asleep includes forgetting the conscious world.

----------


## exileblue

I like the idea and had a good start with it, but same problem as always, I can't fall asleep and only get some weak HIs and SP. I tried it 3-4 times over 2 days and changed between counting in the back of my mind, repeating words or short sentences. I tried it at different times of the day, after a few hours of sleep and as a nap, but the idea might be ok, tried to Wild for many years now.

----------


## Mzzkc

> how do you remain aware while falling asleep? To me, falling asleep includes forgetting the conscious world.



I'll quote myself for this one.





> There's a few good ways to do it: anchors, setting a 'reminder', straight-up willpower. and emulating thought patterns that occur when falling asleep are the ones I've found most effective. 
> 
> Anchors are pretty straightforward and should be well known enough that I don't need to explain them here. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. 
> 
> The 'reminder' is something I developed awhile back when first experimenting with the idea. Essentially, you use prospective memory to set a 'sentinel of intent,' as I like to call it, to jolt you into consciousness the moment you feel the usual transition.
> 
> Using willpower simply involves going to sleep while forcing yourself to stay aware throughout the transition. For it work properly, you have to stop controlling the direction of your thoughts, while still keeping a close eye on your mental state. It's not the easiest thing in the world, and definitely not my method of choice. I usually only use it when I'm exhausted, but I still have my mental faculties performing well. Actually, my last two failures were accomplished using this one.
> 
> The thought pattern emulation actually evolved from my experiments with the willpower method. This time, you take full control of your thoughts, but direct them in such a way that each thought leads to a seemingly random associated thought, much like what happens when falling asleep. It takes some practice to get down, but I really like this one. The thought chains can be quite interesting at times.



Those are just what I use personally. Your mileage will vary, so I highly suggest you figure out what works for you. Unfortunately, that's something you've got to do solo.






> I like the idea and had a good start with it, but same problem as always, I can't fall asleep and only get some weak HIs and SP. I tried it 3-4 times over 2 days and changed between counting in the back of my mind, repeating words or short sentences. I tried it at different times of the day, after a few hours of sleep and as a nap, but the idea might be ok, tried to Wild for many years now.



What's your mindset when making the attempt? What are you doing differently from how you normally fall asleep? Are you trying to recognize SP/thinking about it when you feel it? What were the times exactly, and how much sleep did you get on each day?

----------


## exileblue

> What's your mindset when making the attempt? What are you doing differently from how you normally fall asleep? Are you trying to recognize SP/thinking about it when you feel it? What were the times exactly, and how much sleep did you get on each day?



Normally I just go to bed and fall asleep in a few minutes, if it takes more time, then I listen to this weird whistling sound in my ears, it often speeds the whole thing up. When I Wild without your Idea in mind, I "try" to get SP and then I'm mostly stuck in my mind, I get short HIs but they disappear after a second. In the last days I started a new technique where I collapse every sensory information that I get, on a single point. After a short time of doing that, I come close do a dream-like state, but then I hit a wall, it's like I can't get more sleepy, but at the same time I can't fall asleep.
While trying a WBTB, I'll sometimes just lose conciseness, fall asleep, but mostly because I'm to careful not getting too awake, because then I maybe couldn't go back to sleep.
I never really think about SP, it just happens, especially because my Wild-tries often exceed 2 hours.
I slept pretty normal while trying your idea, 7 hours at night (wbtb after 4-5 hours) and than again a short nap 6 hours after leaving the bed.

edit: 
1. I never had the feeling that I could really enter a dream, it just seems like I imagine to start dreaming, but it won`t really happen = HI, only for short bursts I sometimes had seemingly real images that just lasted a second. For me it's like trying to achieve the impossible, but that makes it so interesting.

2. It would be great, if you could explain your whole routine, what you do and think, so that I can better identify my problem. I never really read something like that from someone in this forum, who really "mastered" wilds.

----------


## idanl09

It's okay to swallow?! all this time I lived in a lie?
I can handle without swallowing, but with swallowing it's easier!
I got to a stage when my feet mooving like a flame(If I concentrate in them), but then my mind saying me to roll, and Im like"No! you can't fool me!"....but after few seconds I surender...so what do u advise me to do?

----------


## bbbblaahhh

Really? 
I just wrote up a huge thing for this thread and went to click "Go Advanced" and found out that I'd been signed out. I clicked back, dreading what I knew was to come, which was my wall of text, gone.

Why was I signed out?

Whatever. What I came to tell you was that I had another lucid dream, and I'm unsure of what I feel its classification is. I'd like to know what it sounds like to you.

The facts:

-thinking a lot about lucid dreaming before I went to bed
-fall asleep as normal
-woke up from sleep, with intent of going back to bed
-perhaps, but cannot be sure, consciously made effort to use your method
-fall asleep, directly into dream, with full consciousness right off the bat

The full awareness right off the bat leads me to believe that it would be a WILD. With my other lucid dreams -- MILD and DILD -- there's always been some other dream material before the Point of Realization.

However, I didn't feel like any conscious effort was put forth, like in my first WILD, which had led me to believe that I was responsible for the lucidity -- that it wasn't just a coincidence.

P.S.: To anyone who is reading this: if you have other people in your house, always shut your door before you go to sleep. I woke up from this dream due to a door slamming downstairs.

----------


## sydiswatching1

I'm not sure how this method worked, but it did, I think. I decided to take a nap at 11 just because I was tired, not really thinking about trying to have a lucid dream, and I was in the middle of a dream completely aware that it was a dream. After seeing all the pairs of shoes that were in my room outside of a airport terminal thing, I went inside and saw some writing on the wall like in Portal. I remembered the things about sleep guards and was afraid it would say something like "Go bAcK To sLeeP." I tried spinning and rubbing my hands simultaneously so the words would be more clear, but all that did was wake me up to find I was in sleep paralysis in the most awkward position and that my heart was racing. I remember being calm in the dream, do you have any suggestions on how to not waken too quickly?

----------


## Mzzkc

Sorry for the late replies. I've been somewhat busy as of late.





> Normally I just go to bed and fall asleep in a few minutes, if it takes more time, then I listen to this weird whistling sound in my ears, it often speeds the whole thing up. When I Wild without your Idea in mind, I "try" to get SP and then I'm mostly stuck in my mind, I get short HIs but they disappear after a second. In the last days I started a new technique where I collapse every sensory information that I get, on a single point. After a short time of doing that, I come close do a dream-like state, but then I hit a wall, it's like I can't get more sleepy, but at the same time I can't fall asleep.
> While trying a WBTB, I'll sometimes just lose conciseness, fall asleep, but mostly because I'm to careful not getting too awake, because then I maybe couldn't go back to sleep.
> I never really think about SP, it just happens, especially because my Wild-tries often exceed 2 hours.
> I slept pretty normal while trying your idea, 7 hours at night (wbtb after 4-5 hours) and than again a short nap 6 hours after leaving the bed.
> 
> edit: 
> 1. I never had the feeling that I could really enter a dream, it just seems like I imagine to start dreaming, but it won`t really happen = HI, only for short bursts I sometimes had seemingly real images that just lasted a second. For me it's like trying to achieve the impossible, but that makes it so interesting.
> 
> 2. It would be great, if you could explain your whole routine, what you do and think, so that I can better identify my problem. I never really read something like that from someone in this forum, who really "mastered" wilds.



I think I know what "wall" you're talking about. That happens to me sometimes, too. At that point, I'll either stop the WILD and take my mind off of the whole process for awhile by doing something else (like getting a glass of milk) before retrying, or simply give up my awareness exercise set a sentinel let myself drift off, and hope for the best. It really depends on my state of mind. The main idea here is that you want to distance yourself from the WILD as much as possible, if that makes any sense.

I'd go over my usual routine, but I don't really have one. I just WILD when I can, accounting for variables and mixing methods as I go along.





> It's okay to swallow?! all this time I lived in a lie?
> I can handle without swallowing, but with swallowing it's easier!
> I got to a stage when my feet mooving like a flame(If I concentrate in them), but then my mind saying me to roll, and Im like"No! you can't fool me!"....but after few seconds I surender...so what do u advise me to do?



Surrender faster, but don't pay it any mind. Moving only sets you back as much as you let it. Swallowing works in a similar fashion.





> Really? 
> I just wrote up a huge thing for this thread and went to click "Go Advanced" and found out that I'd been signed out. I clicked back, dreading what I knew was to come, which was my wall of text, gone.
> 
> Why was I signed out?
> 
> Whatever. What I came to tell you was that I had another lucid dream, and I'm unsure of what I feel its classification is. I'd like to know what it sounds like to you.
> 
> The facts:
> 
> ...



That's a tricky one. In my book, it's a WILD if you go directly from being awake to being lucid within a dream. I would say you had a successful if wholly unintentional WILD, but others may disagree with me.





> I'm not sure how this method worked, but it did, I think. I decided to take a nap at 11 just because I was tired, not really thinking about trying to have a lucid dream, and I was in the middle of a dream completely aware that it was a dream. After seeing all the pairs of shoes that were in my room outside of a airport terminal thing, I went inside and saw some writing on the wall like in Portal. I remembered the things about sleep guards and was afraid it would say something like "Go bAcK To sLeeP." I tried spinning and rubbing my hands simultaneously so the words would be more clear, but all that did was wake me up to find I was in sleep paralysis in the most awkward position and that my heart was racing. I remember being calm in the dream, do you have any suggestions on how to not waken too quickly?



Erm, I'm not really sure if that constitutes a WILD, but for your dream stabilization issue, I'll point you to a decent resource.

----------


## TheOneirologist

All of this sounds really great!  I've been trying to DILD and MILD since I joined this site, but this really sounds promising.  I do have one concern: do you feel any more tired through the day after WILDing?  I'm asking because school is coming back in less than a week and a half, and I don't know if I'll have mastered WILD by then.  What would the consequences be of WILDing on a school night?  If I can WILD every night without passing out in the middle of class, I'm all for it!  :Rock out:

----------


## Mzzkc

> All of this sounds really great!  I've been trying to DILD and MILD since I joined this site, but this really sounds promising.  I do have one concern: do you feel any more tired through the day after WILDing?  I'm asking because school is coming back in less than a week and a half, and I don't know if I'll have mastered WILD by then.  What would the consequences be of WILDing on a school night?  If I can WILD every night without passing out in the middle of class, I'm all for it!



It depends on how long your WBTB is. WILDing itself isn't draining.

----------


## bbbblaahhh

> All of this sounds really great!  I've been trying to DILD and MILD since I joined this site, but this really sounds promising.  I do have one concern: do you feel any more tired through the day after WILDing?  I'm asking because school is coming back in less than a week and a half, and I don't know if I'll have mastered WILD by then.  What would the consequences be of WILDing on a school night?  If I can WILD every night without passing out in the middle of class, I'm all for it!



Every time I've done it, I certainly don't feel any more tired at all the next day. Then again, that's also because my WILDs haven't been excursions where I've had to act like a mummy for 2 hours. They were just like falling asleep normally, but with a little twist.

Certainly WBTBs don't make one more tired, assuming that you're not missing out on large amounts of sleep.

Also, if anything, I felt revitalized after my lucid dreams. In some ways, they made it much easier to shift between a sleeping state and a waking state, since you're kinda halfway there. Waking up felt more natural -- like simply awaking from a daydream.

So I don't think it's a problem.



Unrelatedly, I watched 2001: A Space Odyssey last night, and I finally understand your icon, Mzzkc. I swear I'd been wondering what it was since I posted in this thread.

----------


## Mzzkc

> Unrelatedly, I watched 2001: A Space Odyssey last night, and I finally understand your icon, Mzzkc. I swear I'd been wondering what it was since I posted in this thread.



Haha, very nice.

----------


## goldenaxel321

Ok. If I may, I will recap.

1.- I set my alarm 6 hours after I sleep.
2.- I sleep like I normally would, without wild in mind.
3.- I wake up due to alarm. Shut it off, go back to sleep while staying conscious (I will use counting as an anchor).
4.- I LD.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I'm new to this, and I think wild is a good method to start out with.

I will try this method tonight and post results. Assuming I have it right, of course.

                                               Best wishes. Goldenaxel321

----------


## TheOneirologist

From what I've heard, you should go to the bathroom or something after the alarm goes off.  I don't think you're supposed to go back to bed immediately after the alarm goes off.  I may have just misunderstood, though.

----------


## ZoeSeeker

I have designed an Isochronic tone sequence specifically for use with WILD. This track is 20 minutes long, and takes you down to 6 Hz pretty quick. It stays there for the entire time so that you can relax and get comfortable and prepare for Transition. At 19:11 into the track, a trigger goes off. This is to pull you back from going totally to sleep, and hopefully will induce your LD. The track then fades to silence.

You should download two files. One is the actual file. This is what you listen to. The other is the trigger file, which is the sound you will hear at 19:11.

Follow these instructions:

Download these files:

1. WBTB WILD with trigger.mp3
2. WBTB WILD trigger sound.mp3

Prior to going to bed, or as often as possible, listen to the trigger sound, and say to yourself, "When I hear this sound, I will do a Reality Check". Do this as much as you can to prep yourself. The more you do this, the more effective this technique will be.

1. After a WBTB, when you go back to bed, put on the headphones or earbuds (it might work with just loudspeakers because they are Isochronic, not Binaural). You should already be pretty tired, and able to fall in asleep in the next 20 minutes.
2. Listen to "WBTB MILD with trigger.mp3", and concentrate on the whooshing sound while clearing your mind. Then, let your thoughts take you where they may, keeping in mind that you will hear the chimes.  Don't concentrate or anticipate this, or it will NOT work. Just let your mind wander, keeping focus on nothing in particular
3. At 19:11, you will hopefully be drifting off to sleep. You will hear wind chimes. This is your trigger. 
4. Do a RC immediately. Do it slowly, so as not to break the dream.  Check your hands is the most effective.  If you fail, try again from step one.

P.S.: If anyone who tries it wants some of the parameters changed, let me know, and I'll personalize it for you.  Attached is the beat frequency vs time.  I picked 19:11 randomly looking at the graph, and guessing how long it takes after a WBTB, how long it takes to fall back asleep.  

Good Luck!

----------


## Mzzkc

> Ok. If I may, I will recap.
> 
> 1.- I set my alarm 6 hours after I sleep.
> 2.- I sleep like I normally would, without wild in mind.
> 3.- I wake up due to alarm. Shut it off, go back to sleep while staying conscious (I will use counting as an anchor).
> 4.- I LD.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I'm new to this, and I think wild is a good method to start out with.
> 
> ...



Remember, this is an idea, not a method. Creating a decent method is up to you, I'm just providing you with knowledge to help you do so.

Still, the only thing you have listed there that I wouldn't personally recommend is counting. I've never been a fan of it, since it sometimes serves to be counterproductive if you do it incorrectly.

Good luck.





> From what I've heard, you should go to the bathroom or something after the alarm goes off.  I don't think you're supposed to go back to bed immediately after the alarm goes off.  I may have just misunderstood, though.



WBTBs can be as long or short as you want. From a few seconds to an hour or two, whatever helps you get into the right mindset is ideal. 





> Stuff.



That's not WILD material. It's closer to an EILD. 

Either way, it does not belong on this thread. I suggest asking to have it moved to its own thread so that it can be viewed and discussed properly. If you have any comments/objections to what I've said, please PM me; I'd really prefer to keep this thread as clean as possible.

----------


## goldenaxel321

It didn't work out for me. SP simply never happened. I think I'll try DEILD next. It's not a bad idea, it's just not for me. Thanks anyway.

----------


## Mzzkc

> It didn't work out for me. SP simply never happened. I think I'll try DEILD next. It's not a bad idea, it's just not for me. Thanks anyway.



If you were looking for SP or even expecting SP, then you were doing it wrong and didn't understand the idea at all. XP

----------


## TheOneirologist

I'm really confused and irritated.  A lot of times I can fall asleep while imagining something, but when I do that for WILD, I don't fall asleep at all for an hour or more until I give up.  And as soon as I do so, I fall asleep and have a non-lucid dream.  I know falling asleep is very important, but if you're not aware, you'll have a normal dream.  How can I stay aware but fall asleep?  ::?:

----------


## Mzzkc

> I'm really confused and irritated.  A lot of times I can fall asleep while imagining something, but when I do that for WILD, I don't fall asleep at all for an hour or more until I give up.  And as soon as I do so, I fall asleep and have a non-lucid dream.  I know falling asleep is very important, but if you're not aware, you'll have a normal dream.  How can I stay aware but fall asleep?



I've covered several possibilities, in detail, throughout this thread. However, the bottom line is you're supposed to figure that out for yourself. To quote myself: "WILDing, like just about everything concerning LDs, is a personal experience. You can only get so far on the accomplishments of others. To truly be successful, you have to dig deep and do a crap ton of introspection in order to figure out what works for you and what doesn't."

And yes, that was from the OP.

----------


## TheOneirologist

Aww, foiled again.

----------


## targetzone

I've been trying to WILD and have had some success in the past couple days, one OBE after I just briefly (30 seconds) woke up in the middle of the night and groggily decided to try an induction, and then one last night after waking up at 4am and attempting 4-5 inductions (finally got it on the last one at around 8am!).

It seems I'm running into a some kind of barrier.  I'm fairly good at relaxing down to a very deep state, where my body is completely still and very heavy but comfortable.  I meditate often, so I usually focus on my breath and keep my mind devoid of thoughts.  Now every induction I've tried and failed, I seem to reach a "turning point", where I feel a wave of tingling/vibration all throughout my body.  My thoughts are also wandering a bit now, and the wave has a definite "sleepy" quality to it.  I "feel" like this is the window into sleep paralysis, but I just CAN'T FALL ASLEEP!!  

At this "turning point", I've tried quite a few different techniques.  I've tried using a crazy thought tree as you've suggested, just being a "silent observer" of my thoughts, and also refocusing on my breathing.  However, it seems like no matter what I do here, the electricity dies down, and I'm back to square one, being awake in my bed.  At first I thought it was because I was getting too excited here, but after failing 15+ times, I feel like I'm calm, but still not getting anywhere.

Have you had any experience with this? Any suggestions for me?

Thanks!!

----------


## Mzzkc

Is there any difference between the position you normally sleep in and the one you WILD in?

I find that it's nearly impossible for me to make it past that final stage unless I'm oriented in my typical sleeping position.

Also, I would suggest trying to "give in" to what's happening. Deferring your control of the situation to your body might be just what you need. It's hard to explain it in sufficiently understandable terms, but it's similar to the mindset of giving up on an attempt and simply letting yourself fall asleep.

Hope that helped.

----------


## targetzone

Thanks!

I tried last night, and kept running into the same barrier.  Electricity running over me, and as soon as I *realize* what's happening my wandering thoughts clear, and the vibrations fade...  maybe it's because a mental block now.  I'm going to try repeating a mantra while relaxing: "When I feel the vibrations, I will begin dreaming".

But while I failed at WILDing, I did learn that my preferred sleeping position while dreaming is on my side, but I've been trying to induce mainly by lying on my back.  I will try again tonight by getting completely relaxed on my back, then rolling over to my side and falling asleep.

Hope it works!

----------


## Coolman

I think I failed a Wild  because I got to hypnogogic imagery but then my heart rate when down or something that made me take short sudden breathes and I couldn't go further so I break the sleep paralysis

----------


## Nighthog

Mzzkc thanks for that post. I think it will help me out in my own WILD experiments.

I have had similar issues as the poster above. I've done that resting and just waiting and having that energy and heart beating stuff but then I 'wake up' and it fades away and I'm wide awake. I think what you told gave me the right idea on how to try it next time.

----------


## Squeenix

Thanks for your post!

I didn't get to a WILD, only SP, but with knowing the knowledge that I should be simply going to sleep with an anchor rather than counting consciously (which kept me awake for hours before with no WILD) I got a hell of a lot further than I had done in the past.

----------


## bengreenmusic

I think you might be able to help me, recently I've been waking up in the middle of the night for no reason, maybe subconsciously in order to LD, i don't really know.

Well anyway after I wake up I can close my eyes and see the dream I was just having quite well, but I still feel conscious. Not lucid conscious, as I've DILDed before and that felt completely different. Its really strange, almost like two minds, my dream mind being hazy but nearly there and my awake mind being conscious. I think to myself, 'I'm awake' in my dream, but because I'm almost half and half don't become lucid.

Do you reckon if I keep doing this but spend more time on being, aware/thinking about lucidity/something else, I'll have a successful WILD?

By the way, your OP is really useful and I'll probably try it out tonight, thanks for the help.

----------


## Squeenix

> I think you might be able to help me, recently I've been waking up in the middle of the night for no reason, maybe subconsciously in order to LD, i don't really know.
> 
> Well anyway after I wake up I can close my eyes and see the dream I was just having quite well, but I still feel conscious. Not lucid conscious, as I've DILDed before and that felt completely different. Its really strange, almost like two minds, my dream mind being hazy but nearly there and my awake mind being conscious. I think to myself, 'I'm awake' in my dream, but because I'm almost half and half don't become lucid.
> 
> Do you reckon if I keep doing this but spend more time on being, aware/thinking about lucidity/something else, I'll have a successful WILD?
> 
> By the way, your OP is really useful and I'll probably try it out tonight, thanks for the help.



If you wake up in the middle of the night, try to not open your eyes and do a DEILD.

----------


## TheOneirologist

Last night I tried a WILD.  I just listened to the sound of my breathing and ended up falling asleep normally.  That night I had a DILD!  This is a little off topic, but I've heard that it's actually common for failed WILDs to become DILDs.  Just saying...

----------


## Vesterguard

Thanks for this,

Had one WILD experience since reading this guide, and I am now back re-reading it as I have failed since.

The outline of what happened when I was succesful was that I had been haunted by recurring dreams that woke me up, reset and woke me up again within 1-2 minutes for some time. I recognised this and kept repeating to myself "just go to sleep" as I had these dreams, tossing, turning itching you name it. BAM I wake up and only realise SP while I was in the beginning of my lucid, the sensation of SP faded away after a few minutes of intense dream stabilisation. 

Just want to support the whole, don't try to WILD with that description. In fact the mental repetition "just go to sleep" sort of became my serendipidous anchor to maintaining awarenes. 

Gonna use your advice on retrospection, focus on what went right when it happend and try a more relaxed approach. My failures since have all been with me trying completely still, focusing on my breath,  completely ignoring what happened when I succeeded. Have had 2 WILDs so far, both where I didn't recognise SP until I was in the dream, so I will really try not to give a crap about it and "just go to sleep".

Thanks a lot, will update when I am succesful!

----------


## Shesho

Well, I can't stop songs running through my head... And I think I've nearly WILDed before, but didn't know it. Why, you may ask? Well, I'd open my eyes and there would be portals to other freaking worlds staring back at me... or branching darkness reaching out to me... or HUGE ass spiders jumping at me.

But I'll start trying harder to resist my previous actions... which consisted of leaping out of bed.

----------


## Rozollo

> Is there any difference between the position you normally sleep in and the one you WILD in?
> 
> I find that it's nearly impossible for me to make it past that final stage unless I'm oriented in my typical sleeping position.
> 
> Also, I would suggest trying to "give in" to what's happening. Deferring your control of the situation to your body might be just what you need. It's hard to explain it in sufficiently understandable terms, but it's similar to the mindset of giving up on an attempt and simply letting yourself fall asleep.
> 
> Hope that helped.



This is what I was doing wrong.  I'd lie on my back, feet apart, hands at my side.  I could make it to Sleep Paralysis pretty fast, got some hypnogogic hallucinations, but then I'd either lose it are fall to sleep.

Other than this change, how do I fall asleep while maintaining that I am falling asleep.  The process seems a lot like circular breathing in that I am actually breathing through my nose, while my cheek muscles push air out of my inflated mouth to maintain a constant air flow while I breathe.  So in essence, I need to make the awareness second nature, while I focus on sleep, but I am unsure how to do this.

Thanks!

----------


## Elucive

This thread needs to stay on the front page. In my opinion, it's the best WILD tutorial since Billybobs.

----------


## Mzzkc

> This thread needs to stay on the front page. In my opinion, it's the best WILD tutorial since Billybobs.



Wow. That's probably the biggest compliment you could've given me. XD

Honestly, I'm just glad this thread has been able to help people. I was worried it would fall on deaf ears when I wrote it.

----------


## Elucive

Lol, anything that has to do with how to WILD, is going to get a ton of hits. I'm very glad that this thread helps emphasize the fact that you need to fall asleep. Like seriously, too many people worry too much about SP, or looking out for this and that. Just pick an anchor, and put in the time and effort to work with it. I'm a firm believer that everyone has a personal unique anchor for them. So many threads are posted day after day, which questions that are answered in this very thread. This needs to be stickied.

----------


## Mzzkc

> Lol, anything that has to do with how to WILD, is going to get a ton of hits. I'm very glad that this thread helps emphasize the fact that you need to fall asleep. Like seriously, too many people worry too much about SP, or looking out for this and that. Just pick an anchor, and put in the time and effort to work with it. I'm a firm believer that everyone has a personal unique anchor for them. So many threads are posted day after day, which questions that are answered in this very thread. This needs to be stickied.



Maybe I should write up another thread with all the information I've shared throughout this post compiled into the OP. A comprehensive guide, if you will.

I think I'll do that after I get around to writing that archetype control guide.

----------


## Elucive

Sounds good to me  :smiley:

----------


## Sam1r

*PLEASE HELP!*
I've been trying to WILD forever now and never have any kind of success...
I really,really need help,cause I can't find an experienced WILDer who can guide me...
I seem to never get to SP...I either give up,or fall asleep...
The the thing is...I usually attempt a WILD on my back,since attempting it on my sleeping position results me being 'too' comfortable and I simply fall asleep...
When I lie on my back,One of two things happen...
1.I lie there for 15 minutes with *absolutely no result*..or
2.I get a painful feeling in my limbs from not moving for a long time...and well if I move my limbs,I usually give up or it results in me lying there for 15 minutes with no result...
I really want to WILD,it seems like a great technique but I can't seem to get anywhere near SP...
Appreciate any help provided...
 -Sam

----------


## Mzzkc

=/

Did you even read the OP?

----------


## Sam1r

Hey...
Yes,I did...what are you trying to say?
 -Sam

----------


## Mzzkc

I wrote that post because your questions show an ignorance to the topics that have been discussed in this thread. The OP itself states very clear that you shouldn't bother with SP, and the whole point of the thread was to emphasize falling asleep, which you don't seem to want to facilitate. 

Please, do yourself a favor and read through all the responses I've given in this thread, and make sure you understand them before coming back to me. All your concerns have already been addressed, most of them in the OP. I very much detest repeating myself, so you'll understand my frustration.

----------


## Sam1r

Hey...
I apologize for my ignorance ::D: ,I understand your frustration and more importantly,understand the emphasis of the advice...
The reason why I keep the thought of me going into sleep paralysis is because not doing so results in me losing consciousness and falling asleep...
Falling asleep,for me,can be a fragile and a difficult thing...
I will attempt a WILD on my normal sleeping position without the thought and anxiety of Sleep Paralysis...
Thanks
And a thousand apologies..
 -Sam

----------


## Elucive

If you go lights out that quickly, you should look for another anchor. I've been trying to use my air conditioner, but I keep failing. It's not that loud anyways so it's not like I'm going to suddenly realize I can't hear it anymore, lol. Maybe I should put a radio next to my bed and put on a noisy station.

Anyways, yeah, just do what you would normally do when you go to sleep. You gotta fall asleep to WILD  :smiley:

----------


## TheOneirologist

When I try to WILD (keyword is try, I actually haven't succeeded yet), I listen to the sound of my breathing as an anchor.  It may or may not work, it's just an idea.

----------


## Elucive

Just finished up another WILD attempt. It took a while to fall asleep... Anyways, after coming in and out of many dreams, I rolled over and I got loud sounds and heavy vibrations. I didn't panic or anything, just went with it. After the first set of vibrations finished, another wave came. Then another. I started to feel my legs rise off the bed, and someone started tickling my rib cage. Thankfully, I didn't laugh. Anywho, after that all subsided I got up in bed and sadly, couldn't breathe through my nose. I'm not sure what happened... My body vibrated three times... I thought I should ride it out but now it seems as if it was asking me for something, you know?

When you're feeling vibrations and the wind in your ears, is it normal to still be able to control your breathing? I kept holding it out of bad habit... It happens when I feel anxious about things. Anyways, as far as my legs being in the air, I'm not sure if that was actually me, or an hallucination. If it was, then I must say it felt literally real.

----------


## kaze

Words can't express my gratitude for this brilliant tutorial. I've been trying to LD for over a year and managed only a rare DILD once every few months. I recently found this site and decided that I'd try to WILD, since I'd already tried nearly everything else with little success. So, I WILD'ed the usual way and managed a difficult and short DILD. The next day (yesterday), I came across this and realized that everything that you've stated made complete logical sense. So last night, I gave it a shot.

I had two LD's! It's unprecidented for me, and I thought it would never happen (at least anytime soon). Go figure that all I needed to do was fall asleep to make the WILD work, lol. I simply told myself to notice the shift and become conscious in the dream, then let myself drift like I usually do, and BAM! Two LD's! It's a miracle! Thank you so much! You need to get this posted as an official tutorial. This, my friend, is gold.

----------


## Vesterguard

Did some more work on the WILDs,

had a week+ with no success when I allowed myself to move like a hurricane. Fell asleep without maintaining awareness. Decided to limit it a bit and moved only 3 times until I found a position in which I felt comfortable.

Focused on the breathing, it took time for me to find the balance between too much focus on awareness, was probably lying there for an hour or more. However I noticed that I was gradually heading towards sleep.

SP hit, didn't really expect it, became excited, but quickly regained the focus on breathing and falling asleep. WILD!

Gonna work on awareness and calming my mind quicker, probably through meditation, as I am remaining awake too long and it is probably messing up my sleep cycle.

I promissed to return when succesful, so this is me doing so.

I agree with Kaze, get it stickied as an official tutorial. The reasons for this is the emphasis on falling asleep, don't get all worked up about SP (it is only a stage to be recognised) and trust and work on your awareness.

Thanks a million again, great work!

----------


## Elucive

Nice job! That's what it's all about. You fall asleep, then your mind is still looking for the anchor. So what happens is you kind of "wake up" into the transition. Once you start to recognize this feeling more and more, I think you wouldn't even need an anchor no more, your mind would get used to noticing the transition.

Besides falling asleep, I think the main key is memory footprints. You know how when you're laying there and all of a sudden you wake up two minutes later and remember small parts of a dream? I think that's the moment where the WILD starts. That's what happened during my nap. I kept slipping into mini-dreams, waking up every couple of minutes. I was pissed off at myself I kept thinking why the fuck can't I catch myself. Then boom, I came back from another mini-dream, rolled over and SP hit me in like three seconds. Mzzkc if you're reading this, I hope one day you do make that big comprehensive guide, lol.

----------


## jguitar

this helped me a ton! i had a clear line drawn between wild and sleep in my head. like aware sleep and sleep are two different halves of a whole. i was directed to this thread and bam i can do it. or get to sp at least. what do i do when i reach sp? im gonna try in an afternoon nap today.

----------


## TheOneirologist

This afternoon I took a nap... before I got comfortable, I said to myself, "I'm going to WILD, but I'm going to fall asleep normally."  Well, I did.  I think the WILD failed, but that's okay because it turned into a DILD like WILDs always seem to do.

----------


## Mzzkc

> Mzzkc if you're reading this, I hope one day you do make that big comprehensive guide, lol.



I'll see if I can work it in on a day my homework schedule is fairly lax. Since I do work from 10PM-2AM every day, even weekends, it shouldn't be too hard, as long as I keep up with it.





> this helped me a ton! i had a clear line drawn between wild and sleep in my head. like aware sleep and sleep are two different halves of a whole. i was directed to this thread and bam i can do it. or get to sp at least. what do i do when i reach sp? im gonna try in an afternoon nap today.



After you hit SP, just keep doing what you were doing before. No need to change the game up, since your body was already falling asleep to begin with. The biggest mistake people can make during SP is to do something that would prevent them from falling asleep, like get excited or focus too much on the sensations. Really, whatever got you to SP will be enough to get you into the dream. That said, you _can_ change it up if you feel the need to. Just be warned that doing so doesn't always yield the results you want, and it takes some experience to know what will work and what won't in any given situation.

----------


## Navtyr

Strange, i always thought since i sleep on the side, wilding on my back would bring more success. I think i fall asleep too fast and without awareness in my normal postiion, while lying on my back gets me into SP quite fast, i just need to drift away to sleep without being too aware about it. I may try sleeping in my normal position, but i have no idea how to keep me aware enough so i don't just doze off. 
ALSO, nice of you to mention that you need 8 hours of sleep before wilding, that gives me a wide range of testing to see what suits me, since i usualy went for 4 to 5 houts.
Nice tutorial as everyone already stated btw.

----------


## TheOneirologist

I took an afternoon nap today, and I think I got really close.  Less than an hour before the nap, I'd beaten The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (I got it for my last birthday, and I don't care that I'm four years late!).  Seeing as it's the best and longest Wii game I've ever played, I was thinking about it as I fell asleep, and it became my anchor.  I think I heard a faint whooshing noise at one point, and then the anchor started to affect me directly.  My body would seem to tingle whenever I thought of certain parts of the game; I almost could feel the things that I was imagining.  After that, I swallowed or something, and the sensations went away.  That's the closest I've ever gotten to a successful WILD.  Before you say anything, I did RC right after coming out of the "trance;" I, unfortunately, was awake.

----------


## TheOneirologist

> Don't WILD.  Work on Awareness.  FALL ASLEEP!



I seem to have endless trouble with these... my anchors always seem to keep me awake.  When I stop using my anchor, I fall asleep normally.  I've tried counting a few times; eventually my mind would zone out, but I'd keep counting.  I may have some success with that, but most of the time when I WILD, I'll be awake for an hour, and a reality check will prove that I wasn't already dreaming.  I'm a little afraid of how you're going to reply (it appears that you criticize anyone who asks questions without reading the tutorial), but what anchors work for you?  I really need to find something that allows me to have a successful WILD and not keep me up all night.  ::morecrying::

----------


## Mzzkc

Linky.

I cover some stuff there.

As for the anchors I use personally, music tends to work the best, but it bleeds over into the WILD and annoys me to no end, so I tend not to use anchors much these days. For reference, though, having clothes on is also a good one that I've had some success with. Those work for me, but as Elucive has already said, everyone has a different anchor that is best for them, and no one can figure out what it is except you.

----------


## Mzzkc

Bump because people are still concerned about 'stages' when they shouldn't be.

----------


## SamJoe

I'd like to thank you Mzzkc,

Your guide in combination with BillyBob's How to WILD has given me the final piece of the puzzle. 
Now it's up to me to figure out how to solve it (and I'm already making some progress with it :smiley: )

I now realize that it's inevitable that I need to find my own way.

Once again,
Thanks

----------


## Mzzkc

> I'd like to thank you Mzzkc,
> 
> Your guide in combination with BillyBob's How to WILD has given me the final piece of the puzzle. 
> Now it's up to me to figure out how to solve it (and I'm already making some progress with it)
> 
> I now realize that it's inevitable that I need to find my own way.
> 
> Once again,
> Thanks



Hunh, I just re-read that, for the first time in _very_ long time, and realized BillyBob was trying to do nearly exactly the same thing I tried to do here. Our approaches and focus are vastly different, however. While I put heavy emphasis on the bare bones solution to the problem that is plaguing DV (and somewhat toward the idea that everyone has to develop their own technique), BillyBob spread his focus to cover all the bases, which might have hurt the strength of his underlying message.

For a second, I was worried that if I didn't see the light when I read through it so long ago, then everyone might be doomed to figure it out themselves. But then I re-read _your_ post and it dawned on me this thread really does compliment BillBob's tutorial in a way that might help accelerate the progress of those who read both. It's great to see you're forging your own path, and I'm glad I could help you, if even a little bit.

Still, I thought for sure I was one step ahead on this one. Oh well, the delusion was nice while it lasted. XP

----------


## SamJoe

> Hunh, I just re-read that, for the first time in _very_ long time, and realized BillyBob was trying to do nearly exactly the same thing I tried to do here. Our approaches and focus are vastly different, however. While I put heavy emphasis on the bare bones solution to the problem that is plaguing DV (and somewhat toward the idea that everyone has to develop their own technique), BillyBob spread his focus to cover all the bases, which might have hurt the strength of his underlying message.
> 
> For a second, I was worried that if I didn't see the light when I read through it so long ago, then everyone might be doomed to figure it out themselves. But then I re-read _your_ post and it dawned on me this thread really does compliment BillBob's tutorial in a way that might help accelerate the progress of those who read both. It's great to see you're forging your own path, and I'm glad I could help you, if even a little bit.
> 
> Still, I thought for sure I was one step ahead on this one. Oh well, the delusion was nice while it lasted. XP



Indeed, where both of you want to convey the importance of falling asleep, BillyBob presents it as a concrete technique with an emphasis on 'the falling asleep part' whereas you present it more as a mindset/view which people trying to WILD should have. As BillyBob's is a true tutorial I don't think him covering the bases hurts the strength of his underlying message, I think people's preconceived misconceptions do. I would advice anyone to read through both carefully, trying to link them together. It really does give you a head start.

Neither one is actually ahead of the other, I hope that lifts your disappointment a bit  :tongue2:

----------


## thomulf

Mzzc.  There are two posting members here who I think are totally awesome. These postsare amazing because they show you obvius things you already know. I have seen this only once before, and there the post was drowned in thanks as well. Way to go. 







 :Shades wink:   ::bowdown::

----------


## dreamspinner

Mzzkc how about making a personal guide, here me out its not as wacky as it may seem.

Find out how people tend to do wilds, their personalities, sleep times, weather they are a morning birds or not and categorise them. After this make a quiz to find out which category people will fall in to and thus what their sleeping position should be close to. This sould not be a definate guide but a guideline that has canceled out most of the stuff a novice may not need. So you make a guide which could have the closest relevance to a person . A guide like this would need information about hundreds of people but could be done. I believe this would be the next step in guide making.

----------


## Mzzkc

> Mzzkc how about making a personal guide, here me out its not as wacky as it may seem.
> 
> Find out how people tend to do wilds, their personalities, sleep times, weather they are a morning birds or not and categorise them. After this make a quiz to find out which category people will fall in to and thus what their sleeping position should be close to. This sould not be a definate guide but a guideline that has canceled out most of the stuff a novice may not need. So you make a guide which could have the closest relevance to a person . A guide like this would need information about hundreds of people but could be done. I believe this would be the next step in guide making.



That seems time intensive. It'd likely take a team of people to pull off, and I'm not sure how effective the final result will be since everything will be determined by the readers' ability to figure out what category they fall into. And even then, from what I've seen, people tend to vary so wildly in what does and doesn't work for them that the number of individual guides required would be enormous. That's not to say it's a bad idea, but implementation would prove incredibly difficult.

----------


## Rathez

> Recognize what happens when falling asleep.
> 
>     This is pretty straightforward. Simply recall moments where you were about to fall asleep, but were suddenly forced into alertness. Those with WILDs already under their belt can use those experiences to help better determine even more of what goes on when falling asleep.



I've been just doing this for practice when I take naps in the afternoon.  I'll lay in bed with a quiet mind and try to watch for the shift into the pre-sleep imagery. I'm able to sort of hold on to a conscious thought, but its only sort of half there when I start to drift into sleep, but as soon as I notice that I'm starting to dream, I'll snap out of it, my hearing will turn back to external and I'm consciously aware I'm in my bed.

Any tips on retaining this consciousness without going overboard and snapping your attention back to the external world?

----------


## WhiteTiger0811

Hi, good post. I have been trying WILD for sometime now and been successful couple of times. But unable to be consistent. I tried your method and letting me go to sleep. I do the counting thing and in the middle it stops when I'm about to fall asleep. I suddenly realize that I stopped counting and will start again to keep my awareness, which actually disturbs my sleep and I'm awake again. I'm finding it difficult to fall asleep and keep awareness and the same time (which is very key for WILD I guess). What is that I'm doing wrong? 

Appreciate your help.

----------


## Mzzkc

Counting probably. It's a terrible anchor for most people.

----------


## WhiteTiger0811

Thanks for your reply. What are the other options that I could practice to keep me aware?

----------


## Mzzkc

There are tons of them.

Check out this guide for better info.

----------


## TheOneirologist

Wow.  This was just incredible.

     I got home from school and thought, "I'm tired.  I'm going to take a twenty-minute nap."  So I got home and launched myself into bed.  I didn't even know that I'd kept my mind conscious when my body began to fall asleep after about fifteen minutes.
     I could've sworn I heard some sort of scraping/ticking noise.  I felt the pulsing of my heartbeat under my skin all over my body.  I suddenly just knew, "This is what sleep paralysis feels like.  I've done it."
     However, I may have followed up with the transition wrong.  As soon as the pulsing stopped, I opened my eyes.  I could see a picture of my room, but it was fragmented, distorted.  Just to make sure, I tried to check my hands---I had no fingers at all!  I think I did something wrong because I had to force myself to move.  In other words, I was still paralyzed.  I was also worried because I knew that my alarm would go off in about five minutes and that I wouldn't be able to sleep through it.  Suddenly the view shifted and everything went back to normal.  I did a reality check and was awake.  I felt so terrible!  ::morecrying:: 

That was my first real WILD.  What did I do wrong?  Did I move prematurely?  At this point, when I'm so close, I need answers!

----------


## Mzzkc

Good job! As far as I can see, you didn't do anything wrong. The having to force yourself to move thing happens to me quite a bit as well, but there really isn't anything you can do short of staying calm and pushing through it with sheer strength of will.

----------


## ooflendoodle

I just did my first WILD thanks to your tutorial thanks a ton Mzzkc

----------


## Mzzkc

Congrats!

Glad I could be of assistance. ^.^

----------


## TheOneirologist

This isn't exactly on topic, but does anyone know if CAN-WILDs work?  I already know that attempting normal WILDs results in a loss of determination after 40 minutes to an hour for me.  A WILD where you could skip the relaxation phase sounds great, but again, does it really work?  I've tried it a few times but haven't found success yet.

----------


## Mzzkc

It really depends on how the person reacts to the alarm. Too jarring and falling back asleep becomes difficult. The opposite results in less than ideal levels of awareness. Finding the right alarm system is the deciding factor in whether that technique will work for you or not.

----------


## dlucid

Thank you. I had my first WILD this morning. 
I was trying very hard, that was my mistake. 

I'm on a right path now. 

Thanks again.  :smiley:

----------


## dr1ft

> Thank you. I had my first WILD this morning. 
> I was trying very hard, that was my mistake. 
> 
> I'm on a right path now. 
> 
> Thanks again.



Mine too -- I need to loosen up  :smiley:  I tried last night but loosened up too much and went back to sleep. There's a right balance that needs to be achieved.

----------


## TheOneirologist

Remember when I said I accidentially WILDed?  Well, it happened again!

I had just gotten home from an appointment, and I was really tired, so I stayed in the passenger seat and closed my eyes.  A while later, I felt the same pulsing as before.  Every now and then it would fade, but then I'd relax a little and I would come back.  This happened a few times, but I eventually went into the dream.  I'm not sure what, but something happened and the dream transitioned to me on the couch trying to WILD (I'd lost awareness).  Then somehow the dream transitioned back to me in the car, and now I knew it was a dream, or at least suspected it.  This is the most irritating part: I wanted to reality check, but I couldn't move, just like before!  I tried verbally commanding my hands to move, but it didn't work, and then I woke up.  Able to move again, I reality checked, and I was awake.

I'm about to take a nap without focusing on WILDing to see if it'll happen again.  How do I overcome the in-dream paralysis?

----------


## Raspberry

Hmmm... it's just _how_ to stay _just_ aware enough whilest falling asleep. I still need to work on that one.

As Billybob suggested, I tried pain, but can never get in a position that's actually slightly painful without numbing that part of my body -_- I tried temperature aswell, but that didn't work either.

Any suggestions? I'm still wrapping my head around this  :smiley:  It's very simple I know, I think that's why I find it so hard to take in/ really understand.

----------


## Mzzkc

> How do I overcome the in-dream paralysis?



Sheer strength of will is typically how I do it.





> Any suggestions? I'm still wrapping my head around this  It's very simple I know, I think that's why I find it so hard to take in/ really understand.



I explain the anchor thing a little better in my other guide, and offer some suggestions there, but there are literally hundreds of things you can use. For instance, vibrating watches/alarms/phones, socks on/off, gloves even, are all capable of becoming anchors. And then there are internal way to keep yourself tied to the waking world, but it's really hard to recommended any one thing since I have no idea what will work well for you and what won't.

----------


## TheOneirologist

I think I'm finally beginning to figure out WILDing.  During a nap today I had a third burst of SP (however, I was way too tired to think of taking advantage of it...too bad), and as usual, it was unintentional.  I've noticed that recently, any plain nap that I take can lead to SP if it's long enough (I also think that background noises are a good anchor for me---they keep me aware without me even knowing it).  After thinking about this, I remembered one of the rules for doing WILDs...




> 4. *Don't WILD.*



I didn't realize it until now, but that is completely true, and now I've finally found a way to get WILDs.  I'm going to try to take regular naps to attempt this more (plus I need the sleep).  Now all I really have to do to be on my way is overcome the in-dream paralysis.

Thank you, Mzzkc!

----------


## dlucid

Good Luck Oneirologist.  :Shades wink:

----------


## LabRat

Mzzkc, seriously, thank you so much!

I had always had this aspect of it somewhere in my head - that actually falling asleep is the biggest thing to focus on. Everything you have said all seem to tie up with everytime I have had a WILD.

I sense this has helped me greatly.

Chur! ("Thanks" in New Zealand  :tongue2: )

----------


## Mzzkc

Happy I could help!

----------


## GMoney

Your story parallels mine pretty closely, but only to the point where you had a successful WILD.  I still haven't had one yet, but hopefully this guide will help me.   :smiley:

----------


## Mzzkc

Good luck to you!

Feel free to keep us updated on your progress

And don't forget I'm always available to field an outstanding question or two, if the need arises.

----------


## zebrah

> Good luck to you!
> 
> Feel free to keep us updated on your progress
> 
> And don't forget I'm always available to field an outstanding question or two, if the need arises.



Well I'm having some trouble. When ever I try to WILD I can never fall back asleep again. I try even after I have given up the WILD attempt. Do you have any advice for my issue?

----------


## zebrah

Double post glitch. Mods can delete.

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## Mzzkc

> Well I'm having some trouble. When ever I try to WILD I can never fall back asleep again. I try even after I have given up the WILD attempt. Do you have any advice for my issue?



I have the same problem sometimes. It's just a bought of insomnia, easily cured by a good book or music played at moderate to low volumes. Distance yourself from sleep and WILDing as much as you can; your body will pull you back in on its own.

----------


## zebrah

Thanks I'll try that. Another issue I have is alarms. I share a room with my brother so I can't use alarms. Do you have any solutions to that? I really want to try and WILD tonight.

----------


## Mzzkc

Construct an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine using dominoes, several bowling balls, and possibly a ladder, that, at a specific time, will quietly activate, dropping something on your head like a bucket of water or a muzzled rooster.

Alternatively, drink something before bed. Your bladder will do the rest.

----------


## zebrah

I like the Rube Goldberg idea. And if I piss myself I'll kill you.

----------


## Mzzkc

Lol, don't drink too much. Just enough that you'll be uncomfortable and wanting to use the restroom several hours later.

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## zebrah

> Lol, don't drink too much. Just enough that you'll be uncomfortable and wanting to use the restroom several hours later.



 Thanks for your help. I need to reread this thread to make sure I have all of your wisdom in my head. My only two WILDs have been short and fairly lame. But if I can consistently WILD I'm going to be so happy. Lucidity is so much fun but I'm just not that good at sticking to things. If you have any tips you've been holding back now would be the time to post them lol.

----------


## Mzzkc

> Thanks for your help. I need to reread this thread to make sure I have all of your wisdom in my head. My only two WILDs have been short and fairly lame. But if I can consistently WILD I'm going to be so happy. Lucidity is so much fun but I'm just not that good at sticking to things. If you have any tips you've been holding back now would be the time to post them lol.



I'm more than happy to help. =)

If I think of anything else that isn't common knowledge, or already out there somewhere, I'll be sure to share it.

----------


## zebrah

I'll be sure to give you an update. Weather it's after the WILD, Waking up because I fell asleep and wasnt aware, or because I didn't sleep. I just hope I wake up lol.

----------


## GMoney

> Thanks I'll try that. Another issue I have is alarms. I share a room with my brother so I can't use alarms. Do you have any solutions to that? I really want to try and WILD tonight.



I had this same problem, and what's been working for me is to put my phone on vibrate and leave the phone under my pillow.  I'm not sure if your brother will be able to hear it, but you should try it out to see if he does.  Ideally you'll awake from the vibrations rather than a loud noise.

Edit:  My first quote!!   :smiley:   ::banana::

----------


## zebrah

> I had this same problem, and what's been working for me is to put my phone on vibrate and leave the phone under my pillow.  I'm not sure if your brother will be able to hear it, but you should try it out to see if he does.  Ideally you'll awake from the vibrations rather than a loud noise.
> 
> Edit:  My first quote!!



Yeah I have a rather embarising story about alarms and pillows.... Last time I tried that I woke up in the morning with a broken fingernail, a hole torn in my pillow case, and my iPod on the shelf. Apparently I can't work a pillow case in my sleep.

----------


## GMoney

::o:

----------


## zebrah

Well here's what happened last night.

From 9:00-10:00 PM I drank way to much. I probably drank 4 glasses of water. I had eaten some really salty peanuts so I was thirsty. I fell asleep around 10:20 PM. I woke up at approximately 12:12 AM. I did several RCs to make sure I wasn't having a FA. After pissing I laid down in my bed, mostly laying on my back. Although I was a little bit tilted to the right. Anyway after around 3 min I fell asleep and wasn't aware. I woke up at around 7:12 AM.

That was my attempt. I'm thinking keeping a WILD journal of my attempts might help. Tonight I'm thinking less water and laying on my right side. But at least I woke up. It's a small victory, but a victory none the less.

----------


## zebrah

After I wrote this I gave up on sleeping. It's one of those nights.


Night of January 4th 2010
Three glasses of water between 9:30 and 10:45 PM
Laid down at 10:52 PM woke up around 11:48 PM for an unknown reason.
Laid back down at 12:13 AM
I'm having trouble sleeping for some reason. I just going to read DV until I am more tired. I don't know if tonight is going to be successful. But never the less I won't give up.
I drank a glass of water.*
Laid back down at 1:53 AM I have about the same urge to urinate as I did the first night. Now if only I could sleep.
At around 2:10 AM I gave up and pissed. I think it's harder for me to fall asleep because I'm not super tired. Last night I was so tired the urge to piss didn't keep me awake. If I don't wake up later at least I have tomorrow.

----------


## branpera

I have never had a Wild before so this is how far I got last night using some of this advice.  I go to bed and I try to make my mind go blank focus on breathing sometimes ill have random thoughts and then go back to focusing on just trying to fall asleep.  After laying down in my bed for some time 30 plus mins I fell as if my body is going to sleep a little bit but I know if I wanted I could move it.  Like some people say you get a strong urge to roll over but I never feel any physical urges.  After speeding even more time laying down I feel as if my minds focus has shifted slightly.  It is not a sudden shift but I notice my focus being slightly different.  After I am in this different focus I do not know what to do I seem very alert mentally but I am slightly mentally uncomfortable im not really sure on how to explain this feeling.  The best I can do is I feel trapped in my mind and unable to fall asleep at all, but I know if I move i will disrupt this process.  It is very annoying and I end up moving so I can go to sleep and am afraid if I don't move I will spend the whole night awake.

----------


## GMoney

branpera, you can't do it at night.  The thing with WILDing is that you need to have a few hours of sleep under your belt before trying.  Either set your alarm for 4-6 AM (or sometime around 4-6 hours after you fall asleep) or your could try doing it for an afternoon nap.

----------


## branpera

Oooo that makes sence but should I wake up totaly walk around or should I not move at all and fall back to sleep?  Theses are two ways that I have read of.  Does any one find ither way more sucessful?

----------


## zebrah

Most people go to the bathroom and stuff after waking up. I just hope tonight I can pull off a WILD. Or atleast fall asleep.

----------


## TheOneirologist

> Does any one find ither way more sucessful?



Well, I'm not sure if this helps, but every WILD I've had so far have been during afternoon naps.  Also, they seem to just happen when you aren't trying...at least for me.

----------


## Mzzkc

> Most people go to the bathroom and stuff after waking up. I just hope tonight I can pull off a WILD. Or atleast fall asleep.



If you find yourself dealing with insomnia again, try to stay off the computer and don't use any bright lights; they can screw up your internal clock pretty badly. Do you have headphones? I've always find that lying down in bed, in a dark room, listening to relaxing music for a half hour or so is a great way to get sleepy again.





> Well, I'm not sure if this helps, but every WILD I've had so far have been during afternoon naps.  Also, they seem to just happen when you aren't trying...at least for me.



Yeah, the not trying thing is the hardest part to replicate. It takes a certain mindset that can't be easily taught.

----------


## Jeff777

Great contribution Mzzkc.   :smiley:

----------


## Mzzkc

Thank you kindly, Jeff. ^.^

----------


## zebrah

> If you find yourself dealing with insomnia again, try to stay off the computer and don't use any bright lights; they can screw up your internal clock pretty badly. Do you have headphones? I've always find that lying down in bed, in a dark room, listening to relaxing music for a half hour or so is a great way to get sleepy again.



I needed listen to my iPod just to fall asleep tonight. I failed this WILD because I was way to awake. I think the light in my bathroom is waking me up to much. Tomorrow night I'll try only turning on a dim light. Also tonight I was able to sleep almost 4 hours before waking up. Tomorrow I'm going to shoot for 6. 

Thanks for all the help you have been Mzzkc. I'll continue posting if you continue helping  :smiley:

----------


## zebrah

I managed to WILD this morning by accident after all my hard work. I hadn't slept since around 1 AM and finally I got so tired I laid down to sleep. But I had a WILD

This entire WILD I have trouble moving. Dream control isn't my forte I suppose.

All the sudden I'm dreaming. I can't move I'm not entirely sure what's going on. I feel quite disoriented. My little brother and his friend come and push the chair I'm sitting in, into the wall. I'm crashing into the wall. I close my eyes and tell myself that when I open them I will be in a city about to get struck by lightning (task of the month) when I open my eyes I see the living room. I try again again but I feel like I'm falling. When I open my eyes I'm floating. I try to fly a bit but fall and wake up.


Apparently it is just as simple as falling asleep. Mzzkc you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you.

----------


## branpera

I was under the impression that you should be laying on your back, is this true that its the best way to have a WILD?  I am totaly comfortable on my back its just that im not able to fall asleep on my back.

----------


## zebrah

> I was under the impression that you should be laying on your back, is this true that its the best way to have a WILD?  I am totaly comfortable on my back its just that im not able to fall asleep on my back.



The way you are comfortable and able sleep is the best. I laid on my right side and stomach last night. 
Go to the wiki/user articles/Mzzkc's WILD guide. That's really helpful.

----------


## GMoney

Congrats on getting a WILD, Zebrah!  Nice job.

branpera, it doesn't matter what position you're in.  Do whatever's most comfortable for you.

----------


## KristaNicole07

I read this last night, and I ended up WILDing after waking up around 5 and going back to sleep an hour later. I was lucid, but didn't try to control the dream.

----------


## zebrah

Thanks G.

And congrats Krista.

----------


## EmiryBel

> Don't WILD.
> "Lawl, wut?" What this means is that when making an attempt, the focus should be put on falling asleep, first and foremost. Don't try to recognize SP, don't do anything you wouldn't normally do to help yourself fall asleep.



This line right here is what got me my first successful WILD last night. I though "Sleep", then "WILD"
and during SP I totally just chilled and stayed calm 
You are awesome
I owe you big time  ::D:

----------


## zebrah

> This line right here is what got me my first successful WILD last night. I though "Sleep", then "WILD"
> and during SP I totally just chilled and stayed calm 
> You are awesome
> I owe you big time



I wish I would have been forced to read this when I joined lol. After all the time I put in to WILDing, t's really so easy.

----------


## GMoney

> I wish I would have been forced to read this when I joined lol. After all the time I put in to WILDing, t's really so easy.



I've been trying for over a year and have never gotten a WILD to work.  Maybe this will finally do the trick.

----------


## Mzzkc

Congrats Zebrah, Krista, and Emiry!

I'm glad I could help you all out a bit. ^.^

And good luck to you, GMoney! Let me know if you need any advice, kay?

----------


## zebrah

Mzzkc you helped out more than a bit. You helped out a ton. If you ever wanted to teach a WILD class at the DVA we are always looking for teachers.

----------


## Mzzkc

Nah, I just wrote some words, you were the ones who did the hard work and figured out what needed to be done.

And thanks for the offer, but I'd make for a terrible teacher; my students would absolutely hate me. XP

----------


## zebrah

Mzzkc you provided me so much guidance. Don't be so humble. And your students would live you. Just know you can always apply. As soon as you apply I would start up a discussion in your favor. But hey teaching isn't for everyone.

Seriously though thanks. All your threads about WILDs are great. Now if only I remembered your post about archetypes in my dream last night. 

Hopefully tonight will be another success. I'll keep posting my WILD attempts on here if you think it would help.

----------


## TheOneirologist

First of all, some background info is necessary.  For a while now I've just accepted that I will go into sleep paralysis every time I nap, and so far it seems to be true whenever the nap is longer than 20 minutes.  Also, during a previous nap, I went into sleep paralysis and felt the usual sensations.  However, I opened my eyes and reality checked after it faded, and I was awake.

I think I'm getting really close to getting a good WILD; here's what happened this afternoon:
I laid down for a nap, as I do on about half the days of my life.  The nap was intended to be 30 minutes long.  After a while, the wave of sleep paralysis came.  I waited through the first wave, but considering what had happened in that previous nap, I didn't move.  Around this time I heard some voices (even after asking people, I can't tell if they were leaking in from the waking world or if it was the sleep paralysis), and a second wave of sensations came.  I listened to the voices, and near the end of the wave they seemed to become distorted.  At this point I decided that the transition was done, and I opened my eyes.  I did a reality check, but was disappointed to find I was in the waking world.

Where did I go wrong?

----------


## Mzzkc

Hard to say without knowing exactly what sensations you felt. Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens occasionally, and there's not much you can do except keep your cool and try again. Just be sure your focus is where it needs to be throughout your attempt.

----------


## TheOneirologist

> Just be sure your focus is where it needs to be throughout your attempt.



...That may be a problem for me, because I actually never mastered the WILD-focus.  Every WILD I've had/started to have has been accidental.  It seems that whenever I decide that I'm going to WILD, it doesn't happen; only when I'm not trying.

----------


## aktw4

This is all about finding the perfect balance between awareness and actually falling asleep, right?

That doesn't sound too difficult. After accidentally inducing SP a couple times, I get how it is done.

----------


## Raspberry

Tried to WILD last night but for some reason I was really tense. I stretched out and all but after laying down for about 30 seconds I'd need to get up and stretch again (not SP, just tense muscles).

I got a lucid though. Just got up out my bed and done some RCing and started stabalizing, but unfortunatly I woke up because my neighbors kids are really loud -_-

Not sure if what it was. I don't remember dreaming before it, so I'm not sure about DILD or FA. But I don't think I WILDed either. Oh well! It was the clearest I'd ever had, even if it only lasted around 30 seconds!  ::D:

----------


## Mzzkc

Did you know you were dreaming at the very start, or was it the RCs that got you lucid?

----------


## Raspberry

There was no "before" I was lucid. This actually happens to me quite a lot. I do a WBTB, go back to sleep, and then just get up out of my bed and into a dream. I can "feel" that I am dreaming straight away, and just RC to check. The majority of my lucids are like this, but since I don't get SP very often (I think i've had it about twice) or remember attempting to WILD then I just assume it's a FA from a dream I don't remember.

I think probably 75% of my lucid dreams start by myself just finding myself in my room. In these I don't wake up, I'm just in bed or in my room, lucid.

The WILD attempt above however, wasn't really much of an attempt because after stretching several times and finding I couldn't relax, I just decided that I wasn't in a good state to WILD, so I just rolled over and went to sleep, not thinking of lucid dreaming at all. I was really tired and had school the next day so I didn't want to stay up late consciously relaxing and then focusing on an anchor. I was probably awake for about 5 minutes, and had about 6 hours sleep.

----------


## Mzzkc

That is strange. I'm hesitant to call that a WILD, as you have no recollection of what happened immediately before you entered the dream, but that's still an interesting way to get lucid.

----------


## geogzm

I tried wild one or two nights ago and I felt my heartbeat shoot up, and I swear to god it felt like something was above me, staring me down. It pent me up so much that I shot up and turned on the lamp. Is it possible to dream with a lamp on next to you because I'm too scared to try again with the light off.

----------


## Mzzkc

If you can sleep with a light on, more power to ya.

----------


## geogzm

Used to do it a lot when I was little whenever I got scared of the monsters at the end of the bed or whatever, so I suppose I could.

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## Mzzkc

Do you guys think I should put this up on the wiki? I've been on the fence about that for awhile now.

----------


## dlucid

Yes!

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## zebrah

Yeah bro.

----------


## Raspberry

Yup, do it  ::D:

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## anderj101

Go for it!

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## LucidReality93

That would be awesome.

----------


## kidjordan

Hey, I didn't read all 8 pages of this thread, so maybe somebody already asked this. But could you elaborate on #5 in your original post?

----------


## Izanagi

> Technically, what you describes constitutes HH with a small bit of hypnic jerking thrown in, so you are getting somewhere. XP
> 
> Question: Do you normally sleep on your back, or do you sleep on your side when not WILDing?
> 
> That's important. If you normally sleep on your side, you'll want to make your attempts on your side as well. Hand and arm placement should also match your normal sleep position.
> 
> If that's actually the way you go to sleep, then you might want to consider a different awareness technique, or at the very least try a little while longer. Your experiences indicate you're reaching the beginning stages of sleep. If you give up at that point, then you really aren't going to get anywhere. I personally don't give up on WILD attempts until I pass the 30 minute mark.



About what you said about trying to wild in the posistion you usually sleep I can't remember what position in fall asleep in also I usually start going to sleep by laying in the HELP posistion on my stomach then later roll onto my side then im pretty sure i roll back on my stomach but im not sure. I also read that It helps your chances of WILDing if you lay on your back in the "supine posistion" or something

----------


## Mzzkc

> Hey, I didn't read all 8 pages of this thread, so maybe somebody already asked this. But could you elaborate on #5 in your original post?



Sorry it wasn't very clear; I was referring to working on finding a good anchor for you and practicing with it. I go into more detail about awareness and anchors in my comprehensive guide if you want to read more about that and how it all ties in.





> About what you said about trying to wild in the posistion you usually sleep I can't remember what position in fall asleep in also I usually start going to sleep by laying in the HELP posistion on my stomach then later roll onto my side then im pretty sure i roll back on my stomach but im not sure. I also read that It helps your chances of WILDing if you lay on your back in the "supine posistion" or something



Lying on your back in general has been shown to increase chances of experiencing SP, but that's not really what you should be looking for when WILDing. If you aren't comfortable enough to fall asleep, WILDing will prove difficult.

----------


## TheModernNinja

Great tips!

----------


## speedbasssux

Hmm, nice guide. I've never been much of a WILD man, but I'll give it a try.

----------


## Metallicuh

Mzzck when you said the first thing to do for a wild is to fall asleep, did you mean like fall asleep and do a wbtb?
Or did you mean just fall asleep and then regain consciousness?

----------


## bb316

I was wondering the same thing Metallicuh. The only WILD I did happened that when I was trying, I failed as usual.  I the gave up, turned over and decided to go to sleep. Then I heard and saw some HH and thought," OH crap! I did it!"  I remember just kind of normally falling asleep and becoming aware again when i heard a loud rumble in my ears. I might have gotten lucky, but this guide is the closest thing to my experience.

----------


## Mzzkc

> Mzzck when you said the first thing to do for a wild is to fall asleep, did you mean like fall asleep and do a wbtb?
> Or did you mean just fall asleep and then regain consciousness?



You can't WILD without falling asleep. That's pretty much all I said. Try not to separate falling asleep and retaining consciousness when you think about WILDing, as both of these things must be done simultaneously. For a successful WILD, one must occur in conjunction with the other. . .

It's like breathing correctly while you run. It doesn't matter how much oxygen you intake before you run, if you don't breathe properly when you're running, you're going to fail pretty hard and end up wasting your time.

I hope that makes sense, because I can see you're having trouble grasping the basics of this idea. This isn't a step by step guide to WILDing like a lot of the others you see. If anything, it's a step by step guide to understanding how WILDing works, which isn't an entirely linear process, as it turns out.

And just to be sure I've covered all the bases, and since you mentioned WBTB, WILDs have their best chances of success during WBTBs and naps (IE when you're already close to REM). However, WILD can be done at any time, it's just not in your best interest to do so.

----------


## bb316

To follow along with your example, how exactly should I "breathe correctly" while running(falling asleep).  I actually tried this last night, and felt some SP but never got past that. I felt like I had fallen asleep but woke up in a shock at some kind of HI or nightmare with no conscious thought.   I am gonna try this again right now, so thanks, will post my results.

----------


## Bredirish123

I've noticed a lot of people are overcomplicating what's said in the OP, from what I understand the whole point of a WILD is to go to sleep while remaining passive aware. I think that's where people get confused is that you don't remain in a fully wakeful state, (ie someone laying stuff as a board with their eyes shut) this is where experienced people in WILD fail to communicate well with novices. 

For me when I'm about to WILD it feels as if I'm drifting off into sleep like normal, and I let my brain process abstract thoughts or scenarios while passively observing things. Eventually I feel a big jerk of consciousness similar to the feeling of suddenly being woke up. (ever dose off while leaning on your arm and it slips causing your mind to jerk back into awareness?) it's sort of like that but you of course don't want to move or pay much attention to the feeling, just relax and proceed to falling asleep while passively remaining aware using an anchor.

----------


## lawilahd

i'm with Bredirish on this one, whenever I have successfully WILD'ed, is when I just let my mind wander aimlessly thinking about every random thought that may pop up into my mind, I get to a point where I'm almost asleep but still have a tiny bit of awareness, and its like one of my thoughts becomes real in my head and I hear everything with my ears (HH) and it brings me back to almost full awareness and then I patiently wait for the SP vibrations to hit, which they do seconds later.

----------


## Bredirish123

> i'm with Bredirish on this one, whenever I have successfully WILD'ed, is when I just let my mind wander aimlessly thinking about every random thought that may pop up into my mind, I get to a point where I'm almost asleep but still have a tiny bit of awareness, and its like one of my thoughts becomes real in my head and I hear everything with my ears (HH) and it brings me back to almost full awareness and then I patiently wait for the SP vibrations to hit, which they do seconds later.



This is exactly what makes a successful WILD. Like I've stated in a few other threads if you just catch yourself on the brim of sleep most of the hard relaxation work will be done and often times without any sign SP will have set in. Too many guides imply that you have to forcefully relax your mind and body, but that's the issue is that you can't just force relaxation unless you have amazing self-control. So what I've found to be better is just training to keep one's conscious hanging on by a thin thread, it makes things much easier. The trouble being is it's also very easy to fall asleep, but I've also had successful MILDs this way too. It's honestly a win-win.

----------


## n00bf0rlyf3

So let's say I take an hour.. I'll just write it like this
60:00 nap
15:00 stay awake
?? ::?: ? fall asleep on back with the intention of WILD in back of mind but just try to fall asleep
And then what? I'm kinda confused about this

----------


## SarcasticIndeed

I have a question. I normally sleep on my front, with my head tilted to my side and my hand position varying. Can you WILD in this position? I read somewhere you should sleep on your back for a WILD to work. Is it true? I hate it when I try to sleep on my back, I find it very uncomfortable...

----------


## Mzzkc

> To follow along with your example, how exactly should I "breathe correctly" while running(falling asleep).  I actually tried this last night, and felt some SP but never got past that. I felt like I had fallen asleep but woke up in a shock at some kind of HI or nightmare with no conscious thought.   I am gonna try this again right now, so thanks, will post my results.



Like Bredirish said, it's simply a matter of maintaining passive awareness.





> So let's say I take an hour.. I'll just write it like this
> 60:00 nap
> 15:00 stay awake
> ??? fall asleep on back with the intention of WILD in back of mind but just try to fall asleep
> And then what? I'm kinda confused about this



Then you WILD. The process of falling asleep is as natural as it gets. The only thing you're doing differently is keeping up a bit of awareness. 





> I have a question. I normally sleep on my front, with my head tilted to my side and my hand position varying. Can you WILD in this position? I read somewhere you should sleep on your back for a WILD to work. Is it true? I hate it when I try to sleep on my back, I find it very uncomfortable...



Then don't sleep on your back.

You can WILD in any position. The only reason that whole shtick is going around is due to a study that found people are somewhat more likely to experience SP while lying on their back. Keep in mind, this is the sort of SP caused by conscious experience of the effects of REM atonia. There's a huge difference between that and the kind of "SP" you get during WILDs, which occurs every single time you fall asleep (no matter the position) to some degree or another.

Then there's the fact that you shouldn't even be bothering with trying to achieve SP when you're end goal is a WILD. Falling asleep is what is important, not SP.

----------


## kidcrow

You just melted my face  :Oh noes:  and blew my mind  ::holyshit::  ...I need to lie down because I think I could potentially WILD tonight ::meditate::  ::happyme::

----------


## Mzzkc

Lol. 

Sorry about your head.

But. . . I don't think my insurance covers inexplicably liquefying someone's visage and detonating their grey-matter with a few thousand bits of electronic text. Are you good for the medical expenses or am I gonna have to pay out of pocket for this one?

----------


## kidcrow

Get me a lucid dream and I'll consider not suing for your awesomeness lol

----------


## Mzzkc

It's a deal, then. =P

----------


## kidcrow

So I had an ever so close WILD attempt last night and accidentally had a dream where I went through sleep paralysis lol seems like I should try sleep paralysis to induce a WILD instead lol

----------


## 330am

I've only had one "real and true" WILD. As Mzzkc suggested - I had to actually fall asleep for it to happen. Personally I've almost given up on WILD as I've had some success in other avenues, but I really did nail it once! It's obvious that Mzzkc is adept at writing, and so am I. One thing I've noticed for myself is that individual words often have very strong impact with me. The word that brought me the WILD was "submerge." Yet, saying that, that wasn't exactly the word I used at the time. Weird? Yes it is. I used a word that mean "submerge" but also meant "drill down" and "deeper." Having studied my own experiences in the dreamworld, I have long been aware of "secret" words and languages that my mind makes up (or discovers?). In any event, the word occurred to me at the cusp of dreaming and I rode the word down into a vibrant and vivid lucid dream. I was able to use the word several times that night, but repeat uses rendered only limited successes. By the morning I had lost the word entirely.

Yes, I'm sure my brain merely invented the word, but has anyone else experienced this? I'm new to forums about lucid dreaming, but I'm not new to lucid dreaming. I came here for the same reason as many: I've had success, but I've hit a brick wall and cannot cross the barrier which I know exists. For me, WILDs merely create frustration and sleepless nights. But I'm also aware that this is a weakness and shortcoming on my part. My brain simply does not like to "turn off," and once it does...  it's too quick to turn back on. This is my dilemma.

----------


## 330am

This is great. Knowing that "often talking about lucid dreaming will initiate a lucid dream," I tried some WILD after posting this. As I mentioned in my previous post - WILD is not my strong point, but I figured I'd give it a try seeing how I posted about it. Last night I became lucid during a dream. It was short and somewhat disappointing. I tried to "close my eyes" and change the scenario, but I just woke up instead. I went right back to sleep. I had no more lucidity, but at at 4:00am I woke after having a vivid dream where I had excellent dream recall. One thing that stuck out the most was a "mantle" that a character was wearing. I focused on that mantle and drifted off immediately into a dream. I woke with a start, but knew the "mantle" image had sparked such an immediate return to the dreamstate. So, I prepared a "word" to use and try my WILD. I thought about the mantle, then realized I couldn't remember the word. Again, immediate return to dreamland - but immediately waking up trying to grasp control. This time I came up with an easier power word. I pictured the "mantle" from my previous dream and began chanting in my mind "I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming..." IT WORKED! I dozed and fell immediately into a lucid dream, having never lost consciousness. This lucid dream lasted much longer then the previous "accidental" one from earlier that night. I made no effort to fight so I could stay as long as possible. Wow. I initiated a WILD simply by reading this thread and posting on it. I'm convinced this is the case. As I stated before: I stink at WILD and have a HUGE LONG list of frustration and failure. HERE'S TO DREAM DIARIES AND FORUM POSTING!

I'm going to work more on "power words" and see if it increases my success.

----------


## Zelzahim

To keep yourself councoius, can you listen to the small sound thats inside of your head when its completely quite?

----------


## Mzzkc

> To keep yourself councoius, can you listen to the small sound thats inside of your head when its completely quite?



Pretty sure that's Tinnitus, and most people don't experience it, but, yeah, you could.

----------


## Lassa

Thanks a lot, this will help me.
I've attempted to WILD four times, the first time I felt like I was on a boat and I was rocking back and fourth, and had  a slight feeling of lightness and numbness. My heart rate sped up really fast at a couple points and it was not because I was excited, I was simply lying there. I gave up after I got bored. Stupid, I know. Then, the next three times I felt nothing and gave up within half an hour. Last night, I attempted it and failed because of a reason I'm unsure of. I just turned to my side and fell asleep.

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## Zelzahim

I dont think so, ive heard alot of people telling about that. its almost not noticable even when its quite, but its like a very light breeze. Its hard to explain, but when i listen to it, its like it becomes louder, until it snaps and it feels like im in a big room with the sound coming from the walls, echoing slightly in the room. I seriously have no idea what this is :O

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## Mzzkc

Yep. Sounds like Tinnitus.

Tinnitus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Zelzahim

Well, thats wierd :O Whatever, might aswell use it!

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## themoreyoubro

Okay, hi, I've been trying to lucid dream for ages using WILD but after a while I gave up. 'A while' being over a year. But for some reason I started getting into it again and I happened to find this. Today I took a nap and used your tips and it totally worked! It was a really short dream, and I lost control like half-way through it, but it was my first LD! I'm seriously really excited right now! Before I think I was concentrating wayyy too much on being aware, and I stressed out about not moving or swallowing. Thanks so much!  ::D:

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## Dasrat

Hi! this quide is great! im in a similar boat to you, drawn to WILD ages ago and attempting it before bed and had almost no results but after reading this a week or so ago ive been having much better attempts (still before bed, my alarm doesnt like going off early in the morning :S). The best attempt ive had from this guide so far is that i was letting myself fall to sleep rather than trying to stay awake, this helped the most and only keeping my concious just about there, in this attempt i started to feel the onset of SP and had started having small snippets of dreams but i woke myself up from the onset  :Sad: . tonight my alarm should hopefully go off (setting it to AM apparently helps xD). This guide really gave me a better mindset for approaching WILDs and hopefully tonight ill get my first WILD  ::D:  its been too long since my last LD  :Sad: 

Also
@Zelzahim i have the same thing and i doubt its tinnitus as ive had the exact sasme thing since i was young i find it annoying sometimes but i only hear it when there is NO other sound around me. My TV being on standby has a very quiet buzz and i cant really hear it unless im right next to it, but its enouh to stop the effect. i tried using it as an aid to wild once before but it was quite uncomfortable and havent tried it since. Hope that helped!

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## Mzzkc

> i only hear it when there is NO other sound around me.



If you read the first line of that wiki article, you'd know this is the exact definition of Tinnitus. Not trying to be a dick. Just trying to help you understand what you're experiencing.

I'm glad the guide could help you find a good mindset. Good luck to ya!

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## Dasrat

oh right :/ guess ive got tinnitus  :Sad:  ah well its not intrusive, doesnt matter but it fasiled again last night  :Sad:  my alarm failed to wake me for a wbtb and to get up for college lol. The lasdt time i almost had a wild i just smoked a spliff and somehow it helped my mind just click and know what to do sort of thing, but ive tried that again and its not worked, i think it might have just been that strain that was good for wild!

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## bengarmon

thanks

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## nearlyheadless

> It's okay to swallow, really.



LOL. Whenever I'm trying to fall asleep without losing consciousness, I seem to lose the ability to move my throat. It's like, if I swallow, I'm scared it'll jolt me awake because it's so loud. lolol. So I get so nervous that swallowing will wake me up that the nervousness wakes me up o.e lol good tip.

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## Mzzkc

> thanks



You are welcome.





> LOL. Whenever I'm trying to fall asleep without losing consciousness, I seem to lose the ability to move my throat. It's like, if I swallow, I'm scared it'll jolt me awake because it's so loud. lolol. So I get so nervous that swallowing will wake me up that the nervousness wakes me up o.e lol good tip.



Yeah it is.

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## Chicken

I read you're tutorial and it's quite simular to what I've been doing lately!
My consisting problem is that whenever I reach the random thoughts and images stage I realise it and jolt awake. 

What can I do to recognize it and get along with it without being right awake?

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## CosmicEpiphany

Beautiful Thread!

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## ber5897

Thanks for all of the tips. I have a question about my experience with WILDing...
When I WILD, after some time, I feel a sort of numbness over my whole body, except for my head. Is this a good sign? Am I close? I have tried multiple times, and get the same results. I cannot get past this stage. Also, every once in a while I will get a pretty loud ringing in my ears.
I think my problem is that I can't really fall asleep. I have trouble doing that, because when I WILD, I find it much harder to fall asleep than if I am normally trying to fall asleep. I have tried many counting, and many other mental techniques, but nothing has seemed to work. Any tips? Does it sound like I am on the right track?

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## Zyangur

After reading this, I can see thatI have been doing what you say doesn't help ^^. I will keep this thread in mind, and work on it for a while  :smiley:

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## FOATL

great post

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## Nymph

This is a great post  :smiley: 
I tried my wild for the first time last night, and failed because i think i got confused/wasn't expecting a new sensation  
Woke up round 4:30
Sat up
lied on back and started counting
turned over to my belly 
At about 300 in my counting i could see clouds behind my eyelids, 
i stopped counting and tried to remain awake observing sensations 
I started hearing sounds like my sister playing her chimes upstairs (my whole family are musicians including me) at first i thought my sister was rude for playing at 4 in the morning then i realized the music wasn't real and it was probably hypnagogia 
The sounds were fleeting, like i'd have to listen for them
then i heard saxophone playing upstairs, was too good to be my brother haha
started having little dreamlets like kind of imagery, I cant remember it now, but I felt like my hands were moving
dont know how long i stayed like that
saw some flashes heard a loud tsing tsing electric buzzing and felt it too. the buzzing was very distracting and it was significantly harder to breath. my breathing was good, it was just shallow. my pulse was up too
it freaked me out and i woke up. (It didnt really scare me, i just wasn't expecting such a intense feeling of like vibration or something)
couldn't move very well so i held my breath and wiggled my fingers until I could move well.
and it was 5:05

I feel like i was really close to a WBTB / WILD dream

I'm going to try again tomorrow night  :smiley: 
 (Also going to sleep on my back this time so maybe if the buzzing electric noises and tingling happens ill feel more comfortable)

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## Patience108

Thanks Mzzkc - I can't open this link - can you get it up and running? Ta

How to trick your body into falling asleep

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## Stintman

OMG THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. I always WILD'ed by accident and whenever I purposely try one I struggle. I think I might actually try a WILD tonight!

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## AstralMango

This is a pretty neat post! Loved reading it.  ::thumbup::

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