# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  RelaxAndDream´s Workbook

## RelaxAndDream

Hey, i am a 26 Year old Biology Student, who starts on monday his long awaited Diplomawork so i will my studies finaly at the beginning of next year.I´ve started meditating at the end of February because i have had a hard time with a break up and i needed to change something and thought it might help. After some time i saw the benefits of meditating and started to be interested in meditation, awarness, beeing a good people and and started to reconsider aims of life. A month and a half ago or so i slept by a friend who had this book about lucid dreaming. I´ve heard about it before but was never exited enough to start or read more about it. But now i thought: Hm meditation is about beeing conscious in waking life why dont start with lucid dreaming so i can be conscious while sleeping too. One day later I brought LaBerge´s Book in German and read it and startet with a DJ and some simple exercises. I´ve joined here a month ago and depenth my practice. So far i´ve got 10 LD´s and i am eager to rise up the count  :wink2: 

i still write a DJ. But not on a daily base any more. i write every LD and some long vivid dreams into my DJ. I normaly remember atleast 1 or 2 dreams a night without problem and when i intend to remember more and set a focus on it before i go to bed even 4 dreams are in.  By now i notice waking up like 2-4 times a night so i don´t need an alarm for WBTB. With WBTB i´ve started just end of the last month but have had 4 LD since then. At the moment i experiment with SSILD and WILD in a combination. Most of the times my WILD´s fail but i still get lucid after a while then. 

I do some random RC a day, whenever i think about it. I do the counting finger, pinching nose and some days ago started wih the thumb thru palm. 
Most of the time i just get lucid by "no reason" and not because of some recurring Dreamsigns. Often i get lucid in my own room because on the one hand i practice often awarness here and on the other hand my failed WILDS start in my room then  :smiley: 

just out of the blue i don´t have a lot of DILDS, what i want to change

the things i do to get better are:
-random RC (quick ones just to check if i dream)
-some days i pick up 3 or 4 events like everytime i see a blue car etc (prospective memory), but i kind of can´t stick with it on a daily base. i think i need to change it... but it is difficult. the events i have are from a thread here, maby it will work better if i pick my own.
-when i have a quite moment while doing an RC i also think about what i did before and look at my surrounding.
-at some points of the day i started sagous RRC´s
-everytime i think about it i try to be aware (like all day awarness) /SAT
-meditating 2 time a day after getting up and before getting to bed for ~30min
-before bed i recap my day as detailed as possible like it was a dream
i have found out that if i skip meditating or recaping the day i need a little more time to fall asleep + when i do a wbtb attampt i have more problems to focus.

-next week i will start working for 8h a day so i wont have so much time for practice and the question now is to focus on what of these things to still make progress and dont do to much half hearthed...
-plus i have trouble to decide on what to focus my awarness. when i go somewhere i try not to lose myself in thoughts but be aware and see what happens around me. when i do RRC i think about what have changed in the last 10min in my surrounding. sometimes i try to focus on my senses like what do i see what do i hear what do i feel and i try to remember what cloth i have on without looking.
-before i fall asleep i say something like i will have lucid dreams tonight. but maby i should to something like this over the day too but i just cant find a real good mantra i really believe because something like "next time i look at my hands i know i dream"... just don´t know... i dont remember looking at my hands in my dream until i get lucid and check it. so why use this mantra?

i´ve also started a workbook on intro class where i alrdy posted some progress and questions. but i thought why not start here too and get some more input.  :smiley: 

so enough for my first post i think. when you have some more questions just ask i am really motivated to implement your input into my daily practice.
thank you  :wink2:

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## RelaxAndDream

Last days i worked on SSILD WILD after WBTB: if you want you can see it here: http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13181...ml#post2160302 and http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13181...ml#post2160735

because i start my diploma tomorrow i will need to restrict my WBTB on weekends so i will try to practice for DILD and MILD. 

i thought about the mantra thing and think this might be a good one after every RC i do:
The next time i dream i will remember to do a RC and notice i deam. 

Before falling asleep i say to myself:
I will have a lucid dream. while saying that i think about my goals and try to visualize how i do one of them.

what do you thing about this mantras? something to change or another mantra i can use on a different point of time at day or so?
do you think it makes sense to SSILD before falling asleep or is it only usefull after a WBTB?
what can i do else to increase the chances for spontanious LD without WBTB? 
-i do my RC´s whithin the day
-maby prospective memory? but what exactly is it usefull for? just to remember my goals? or does it increase my intension to do RC in my dreams for example?
-i do notice the micro wakeups during night i dont want to do a long WBTB because i need the sleep but could i do something within 5-10min without standing up or will i be to unconcious to really set up an intention or something?

to sum up: What are my possibilities to get regular LD without WBTB techniques?

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## fogelbise

Welcome to the DILD workbooks! I agree with your angle to focus in on a fewer number of practices, especially with the significant changes to your schedule. I was going to suggest the change that you came up with for your "next time" mantra. The mantra for before falling asleep, many will recommend to remove "will" as it can be taken by your subconscious as "I will at some point in the future" (not necessarily tonight). If you leave "will" in there, then I suggest to add "tonight" as in "I will have a lucid dream tonight." 





> what do you thing about this mantras? something to change or another mantra i can use on a different point of time at day or so?



Yes, the "Next time" mantra after RC's during the day and the other before bed.





> do you think it makes sense to SSILD before falling asleep or is it only usefull after a WBTB?



Just at WBTB which you can reserve for the weekends with your new schedule (I love SSILD but primarily gives me DILDs). Before bed you could still do some form of meditation or visualization if you want.





> what can i do else to increase the chances for spontanious LD without WBTB?



RC's, awareness work, and I also like: "If I were dreaming right now, I would" it carries into my dreams quite well when I really get into it and enjoy it. One of my favorites is seeing a beautiful girl during the day and thinking of all of the great times I would have with her "if I were dreaming right now." It could be anything that you really enjoy or are passionate about thoughlike you can pretty much imagine flying anywhere"If I were dreaming I would fly right up out of this crowd."





> -maby prospective memory? but what exactly is it usefull for? just to remember my goals? or does it increase my intension to do RC in my dreams for example?



I think it is useful for increasing your intention to RC but I get the sense that you are really getting into it and perhaps you should stick to what you enjoy the most.





> -i do notice the micro wakeups during night i dont want to do a long WBTB because i need the sleep but could i do something within 5-10min without standing up or will i be to unconcious to really set up an intention or something?



Sensei uses micro-WBTB where he doesn't get up at all, so that might be something to experiment with. Finding how awake and aware you can get during those micro wake-ups while still getting back to sleep quick enough that you don't really lose any sleep.





> to sum up: What are my possibilities to get regular LD without WBTB techniques?



Beginners and novices are greatly assisted by WBTB and it may still be important for many expertsbut you can have LD's without WBTB for surejust take the slow and steady approach until you find that you can WBTB  more frequently without affecting your sleep. My schedule stayed the same as when I started practicing lucid dreaming in adulthood and I started with WBTB only on the weekends but eventually found a way to integrate it during the week most nights that I get to bed on time.

If you like the advice here or anywhere on the site, don't forget to hit the "like" button.

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## RelaxAndDream

Hello again
a week has past and i was not completely away. Work is like i thought pretty intense. i have kind of no time at all... i shorten a bit my meditation (yet i do it every day but some mornings just for 20min and sometimes was just to tired at night ...) i stoped recaping my day (what is sad but i just dont have the extra 30mins before bedtime and when i do i think meditation is more important than this practice) i´ve tried i think 2 wbtb in the week but only short and lets say half hearted.  :smiley:  but on friday i managed to do a good shot with SSILD (this time without a WILD attempt because you know... no time xD) and it worked got lucid. i kind of get a feeling when i am centered and relaxed but concious enough to do a try and when just should go to sleep because i am not focused enough and waste time and then just fall asleep anyway with no chance for a lucid...
i hope in one or two weeks i will manage to adjust to the work and will manage to go early to bed so i not a walking zombie like right now. i know i need to get up early but still dont manage to get early to bed ...
i also have some problems doing RC´s and RRC´s i do whenever i think about it but most of the time its when i run from a to b and then i just dont have the focus and the depth of doing it right i think. i thought about to maby use a vibrating alarm and just fuck on what i do and stop for some minutes when its possible an so maby overall i will do more RC because i get more often reminded about it.

but like you said i just have no choice but go for the slow and steady approach and do wbtb on weekends and when i really wake up at night and feel ready for it and not force it because i would like to. :/

But the good news: 

-Managed a SSILD on friday night. had a relatively short but kind of nice LD. and for the first time i lost my lucidity and gained it back after some time. previously i think i always woke up after a certain time after beeing lucid or got a FA.
the dream: 
after a prior NLD i am in the living room and somewhat manage to notice that i am dreaming i dont do a RC but instead try to run horizontal on the wall. first it works moderate and on my second try it works pretty well and i am sure that i am dreaming. but i think i should have done a appropriate RC because i then sit down tried to meditate and suddenly all the people where gone and it gets darkish. i got up and walked to the window to bring light in the room but somehow got unlucid again. the dream continued and after some time i go to the toilette and voila got lucid again xD this time doing a typical RC and dont even put my pants on and started with making fire in my hand. first i wanted so summon it just like that this didnt work so i picked up some water and imagined it was gasoline. i than imagend i had a lighter in my other hand and light the gasoline. it worked and my hand burned. after some seconds it got hot so i shaked it off and grind some ice of my hand into the previously burning hand and some crushed ice fell down. :smiley:  i really enjoyed the experience because it was a new level of dreamcontrol. i then got off into the hallway to find a girl...  ::lol::  and this worked to i knocked at a door and a nice girl opened. i entered what seem to be a dentist office and she said something to me but i woke up shortly after. was to exited to attempt a DEILD.

on saturday i´ve tried a WBTB with SSILD and WILD but while doing my cycles i should have alrdy know that i was to wasted of the week. no DILD no WILD no lucid what so ever not even good dreamrecall. 

on sunday i´ve tried again WILD and failed but still got a DILD from it which was nice. i woke up in my room what looked like a mix of my current room and my old room i´ve prepared the night before by reading this: My Tutorial for extending Lucid Dream Time. Hours of LD. - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views and wanted to try it. so i looked thorough at my room and smelled on some potatoes that lay on my desk (O.o) but they had no odor. i got out of my room go into the kitchen and wanted to eat something (for tasting sense) the dream got black for some time but i managed to get it back by flutter with my arms and turn the waterboiler on (also a nice to notice that i can still "do things" even i i dont see anything anymore but just imagine doing it and sometimes the sight comes back). i then go to the fridge and found some yogurt i want to eat but just before i closed the door i found some Kinder Country and i dont know why exactly but i got insecure while picking it up because i was expecting to much while picking it up or something. it got black again and i woke up for real.... this LD was disappointing. because again i had no real dreamcontrol and just didnt know what do do exactly with the dream.

maby it needs just more practice but somehow i think when i have the lucids when wake up in my room the quality of the dreams is worse then when i get lucid somewhere else. do you have clue how i could improve the dreamquality and vividness in those "i wake up somehow in my room" Dreams?(which come often after a failed WILD) its like i am to uncreative to make something good out of the dream. should i let myself even more time and just look longer at my room or pick something up and analyze it thorough? will the dream get more vivid then? or maby i need to work more with my intension but i just dont get it yet how. 

mantras:
i changed my mantra to: when i dream tonight i will do many RC and will notice that i am dreaming. --> good? i try to think in the moment like it was a dream and i noticed.
at night i still use i have a lucid dream tonight. i then visualize one of my past dreams of the night before and imagine i would have noticed. is this usefull? i mean i wont dream the same dream again but on the other hand when i just say it it has no feeling right? or what can i do to set this intention?

thank you for your last advice even if i didnt write anything to it i´ve read it and thought about it so i appreciate it!

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## FryingMan

Hi RelaxAndDream, how's the LD practice going?   What are you doing for day and night work, how's the dream recall?

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## RelaxAndDream

i feel flattered that you ask!  :smiley: 

the practice is going well. i reconsider my practice and minimized it. i stepped back from WILD and focus on MILD/DILD. i stopped the technique jungle started all over and go for the long road instead of wanting to be a super lucid dreaming master NOW...  :wink2: 

my main things i focus on is
-meditation. now i dont cut it but try longer attempts. in the morning my 30min and after i come back from work or before bad atleast 30min better 45 to 60min. so far i managed the 60min mark just once but it was a strong feeling afterwards. i have new focus and intention for meditation and do it concentrated and dont sit my time of on a dull way. and i want pretty badly do a vispassana 10 day retreat but i think the smartest thing will be to do it after my diplomathesis in february or march next year.
- prospective memory training. i pick up every day 3 items but i did a list on my own which has events that occure regulary and are diverse. i´m doing it for a month or so on a serious base and i see big progress. i dont need to hold the items in my foreground anymore they just pop up most of the time when the event occure! and i see the benefits of PM training in remembering goals and in setting intension. maby i start next month with 4 items, it kind of getting funny  :wink2: 
-awarenesstraining: in the direction of Ctharlhie´s mindfulness. i here try to focus on location. i try to track my ways so i dont miss transitions in my dreams that occure pretty often. next step will be people. and i try to be overall more mindfull and try to notice when i lose myself in daydreaming/autopilot/thoughts. i see progress here too! its difficult but i have time and i try to do it in a relaxed way and dont force it to hard so i burn out and lose motivation
-intention and belief in myself like in this thread: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...g-revived.html
-> i changed my mantras and understand now how mantras work! i do a mix of:
                        - "i remember all my dreams they are important to me and they are precious!"  --> when i go to bed i dont just knock out and wake up in the morning. i try to rest and be aware of my sleep. i try to not let my mind wander but let it still focus on my breath and set my intention.
                        - "i am a lucid dreamer. lucid dreaming is easy. i will be aware of my surroundings and notice differences!" --> i then remember my last dreams and think about the moments i could get lucid.
i use the mantras before i fall asleep and inbetween WBTB´s. 
-i dont do WBTB´s on purpose like looking on the watch and stand up after 5h and take a piss but i notice my microawakenings think about my last dream and set my intent for lucid dreaming. 

the mixture of meditation that channels my concentration and make my head "empty" plus PM what helps me to set my intention and hold it though a long time plus my mantras to tell my subconcious what is important to me mixed with a relaxed steady approuch works wonders for me.

tonight i had my first night with 2,5 lucids in one night. i managed to do the basic totm last month and this month and managed to do the advanced task tonight. i kind of now or have the feeling when i go to bed with the right mindset i get a lucid dream in lets say 6/7 of 10 nights. sure there are nights i am just to exhausted or i party at weekends and drink or something but when i do my daywork i earn the fruits at night without huge effort.

now that i have the feeling that i can LD on a regular basis i want to focus on getting longer LD with better control. i will think about specific tasks to practice and set new goals the next days.

i dont know if you can give me some tips for this or is it again try and error? i do the totms because i like the wings and i think the tasks are diverse and it opens new ways of thinking. but i need more tasks that train my dreaming skills. i would love to have longer LD but i just find out what is the screw to turn for this. i´m not even sure if it is again just another technique like "rub your hands" or something or again more of a mindset how to center in a dream or something. maby you have some insight or know someone whom to talk about it?

i have a dreambuddy: Nightfeather. we write eachother on a regular basis and i think we have a good exchange and we benefit both with more motivation and regular new thoughts  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Wow you have a really great practice going and such wonderful results, keep it up!   I'm very impressed and I think you'll do great.   I really like your mantras:





> "i remember all my dreams they are important to me and they are precious!"
> "i am a lucid dreamer. lucid dreaming is easy. i will be aware of my surroundings and notice differences!"



These are excellent and I think I'll adopt something like both of these in my own practice!   I do something like these already but not often enough and not quite so directly as you have put it here.

Congrats on the multiple LD night, and the TOTM tasks, getting your first wings is really cool  :smiley: .   

About LD length and control: very similar to "quitting the LD technique jungle" and taking a long-term, dedicated yet relaxed approach to your practice (basically, making it part of your life), the same can be said for LD length and control.   First of all, with more practice and time you'll get longer LDs, as your lucidity moves earlier and earlier into the REM cycle.   This is just a matter of time and continued practice and patience.   Secondly, while things like hand rubbing and stabilization can help, I think a better long-term approach is *not to worry or think about dream length in the dream*: instead, have fun!    Staying involved in the dream, and having lots of goals you want to achieve (both big, long-term goals in general, and smaller, dream-specific goals like where you want to go next or what you want to see next) and really enjoying the dream and being happy there keeps you in the dream longer.     

In some of my absolute best and longest LDs I didn't think about stabilization once: I just enjoyed it and had lots of things that I wanted to do and did them (TOTM goals in fact).   Having goals that you're excited about and looking forward to doing really helps both in getting lucid and in staying lucid.  In contrast to this, I've "lost" some LDs right in the middle of doing "stabilization" at the beginning of the dream.    Either the dream was just ending anyway, or (more likely) the act of stabilization broke me out of the "dream narrative/flow" and caused the waking itself -- it's hard to say but I tend to think the latter.    Sensei writes that once he stopped worrying about dream length, his dreams got a lot longer!

For dream control, reading other people's DJ's is a great way to get ideas on different ways of doing things.   sivason's (the DV dream yoga teacher) has very instructive dreams both in how he maintains the dream by incorporating outside stimulus (like sounds) into the dream to avoid waking up from them, and in how he directs the narrative of the dream in the direction that he wants.   Sort of "working with" instead of "working against" the flow of the dream: make the flow/narrative of the dream be what you want, sort of like you're "working together" with your subconscious to steer the dream.   I think this leads to the most solid, longest LDs.

sivason's dream yoga exercises have many great things to practice that helps in maintaining lucidity: learning to focus on multiple senses (sights, sounds, touch) while maintaining the mindset that "I'm dreaming" is a roadmap for how to extend dreams to really long lengths.  He has learned how to recognize the signs that a dream is collapsing,  and take steps to hold the dream while his brain recovers and catches up and is ready to continue the dream.   Very instructive.     Paying careful attention to your state, environment, mind, etc. is part of this.   Your meditation practice will help immensely in this regards I'm sure.

Great job, and keep it up!

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## FryingMan

Sign up for the August, 2015 competition that Sensei's running, it's always a lot of fun!   Link's in my sig and DILD class announcements thread.

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## FryingMan

> dumb thing on the other hand is that everytime i reach a goal i just wake up. i cant stay in the dream to perform a 2. task for example... dont know maby i need to set at the beginning of a lucid not one but two tasks so my sc knows that just because i reach a goal the dream should not end because there is another goal? i dont know...



I have found that having multiple goals in the dream does help to keep it going.   TOTM goals, your own personal goals, or even dream-specific goals like exploring to a particular location ("what's behind that door?, etc.)..

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## RelaxAndDream

Thank you for the answer i will keep that in mind next time. i also want to try to take it slow next LD so i can see and feel and smell things and have the TOTM´s as second priority. maby then i can ground myself better or get a more vivid LD. 
i´m not sure about the whole stabilization thing. Some LD´s are just super vivid and i dont even do a RC but start with my action and some LD are cursed from the begining... might it be a psycological thing? like how selfconfident you are with yourself at the moment? again this: "if you just know" that the dream is stable and will last long and you just dont think about it....
maby its a mixture. i would say not everydream HAS to be stabilized etc but if you want to stay in some low quality LD you have to do something for it?

i have another question for you because you seem to have experienced it too like i saw in your latest DJ entry:
i sometimes/often loose visual and everything is black. one or two times i could rescue myself by just keep going what i wanted to do and keep moving and got visuals back but  most of the time i dont know how to overcome it? (and i think sc i "choose" to wake up because its dark and i just have no idea so i think dream is over and i wake up to be sure) and another thing is How do i know if i am still dreaming and just "in the void" and have a chance to get out or when i really wake up? because sometimes i have the feeling i would maby DEILD but after all i just manage to get out of the blackness or vice versa? is there something that i can determine with what phenomenon i deal with?

just this night i had a (semi)lucid dream where i run from lions and on was jumping at me and i just scream NO and they dont bite me. i think i was lucid because i somehow know i was dreaming but i was not that grounded like in other lucid dreams where i can just stop think about what i want and dont go with the storyline. there i was so concentrated on the lions and then get black visual again (i remember tinking damn you called them tigers but they where lions doh...) and the next thing i know i am NLD again and am some meters away from the scene and tell somebody about it. 
so again did i really wake up or just dont know what to do and the dream continued on his own? or was it kind of a NLD DEILD because i kind of was in the same scenary?

what exactly is the definition of semilucid? that i kind of know i am in a dream but just cant stop the involvement with the dream and dont get my concious activated?

i had a second one this night. i was phoning with someone telling him about that i dont belive in god but i think there is some energy in us that have a higher meaning than just human bla bla and then decided oh because this is my dream i could go fly and i fly and someone was following me end i was flying in a sitting position backwards and he wanted to punch me and i sing a stupid selfmade "hiphoplike" song and i decided to turn there at the supermaked and waked up again. 
there again i would say i kind of knew that i was dreaming but i just wasn´t entirely myself? i was stupid and senseless xD

i hope you understand what i try to say i see that there is no common theme in this post ...

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## FryingMan

> Thank you for the answer i will keep that in mind next time. i also want to try to take it slow next LD so i can see and feel and smell things and have the TOTM´s as second priority. maby then i can ground myself better or get a more vivid LD.



Having a goal of "slowing down" at the start of a LD is a good thing.  Keep up with that desire, and you'll eventually remember it in a LD.   Practice getting lucid while awake: imagine you just got lucid in a dream, and say "slow down, look around".  Maybe make up an acronym or phrase with all the things you want to remember.  Mine is "B.E. S.T.R.O.N.G." (*B*reathe, *E*ngage/enjoy, *S*tabilize/slow-down, *T* (personal), *R*emember [this experience is a fantasy, my physical body is asleep in bed], *O* (personal), *N*arrate (~Dreamer~'s way of journaling her dream while she's still dreaming it), *G*oals.    That's a lot, but you could just focus on "Slow, Goals" for example, and call is "SloGo" or "SluG" or something like that which is memorable for you





> i´m not sure about the whole stabilization thing. Some LD´s are just super vivid and i dont even do a RC but start with my action and some LD are cursed from the begining... might it be a psycological thing? like how selfconfident you are with yourself at the moment? again this: "if you just know" that the dream is stable and will last long and you just dont think about it....
> maby its a mixture. i would say not everydream HAS to be stabilized etc but if you want to stay in some low quality LD you have to do something for it?



Stabilization is more art than science.   I think the best way to stabilize is just to enjoy the dream and not worry at all about it ending.   That seems to be the consensus.   Probably the most you should do is learn, over time, to be sensitive to the signs that the dream maybe collapsing, and prepare to "wait out" the dream "reboot" sequence, or DEILD, or something else.   This is a really good time to remind yourself that you're dreaming and that the next thing you see will also be a dream.

Some dreams just begin in a "dizzy" mode for me.   Luckily, very few.   I don't have them much any more.  Sometimes,  it felt like I had to use all my will to stay in the dream, and the instant I relaxed the dream ended.   I don't think there's much you can do about those situations, they seem to get fewer the more experienced you get.    My go-to "emergency stabilization" is rubbing my hands and looking at them while I rub them.   Feel the friction and the heat, hear the sound of them rubbing together.    That has helped me in many, many cases.   Establishing a connection with your dream body like that seems to be very important.

If something is bothering you, like your vision is blurred, or there's something pulling you back or bothering you (like the sheet/towel stuck to my head that I couldnt get off in my recent LD), generally just ignore it and it goes away.    For blurry vision, "take off the dirty goggles" or "take off the veil/towel that's on top of my head" has worked great for me in the past.





> i sometimes/often loose visual and everything is black. one or two times i could rescue myself by just keep going what i wanted to do and keep moving and got visuals back but  most of the time i dont know how to overcome it?



I addressed this briefly in the comments in the DJ entry: best approach: *always expect that you're still dreaming, that your dream is solid*, and just keep moving and thinking about the dream you just had or where you want to go next.    Walk, run, or fly forwards.  Dance (although I think forward motion is preferable, since it has the connotation that you're "getting out of this place"





> just this night i had a (semi)lucid dream where i run from lions and on was jumping at me and i just scream NO and they dont bite me. i think i was lucid because i somehow know i was dreaming but i was not that grounded like in other lucid dreams where i can just stop think about what i want and dont go with the storyline. there i was so concentrated on the lions and then get black visual again (i remember tinking damn you called them tigers but they where lions doh...) and the next thing i know i am NLD again and am some meters away from the scene and tell somebody about it. 
> so again did i really wake up or just dont know what to do and the dream continued on his own? or was it kind of a NLD DEILD because i kind of was in the same scenery?



Dreams are weird!   I love the weirdness of dreams.  Who knows what it was?   Can anybody know?   I don't worry so much about what particular dream experiences should be labelled.   Focus on the dream itself, the fun/weirdness/beauty/ of it all, focus on the experiences you want to have, and enjoy them.   Don't worry about exactly what kind of experience it was.





> what exactly is the definition of semilucid? that i kind of know i am in a dream but just cant stop the involvement with the dream and dont get my concious activated?



The exact definition of "semi-lucid" is "sort of lucid."   I'm joking, sort of.    There are levels of lucidity, along a smooth spectrum, and generally anything below fully acknowledging you are dreaming, yet knowing that you're not in a waking experience, is what i call "semi-lucid" -- in between fully non-lucid and fully lucid.





> i had a second one this night. i was phoning with someone telling him about that i dont belive in god but i think there is some energy in us that have a higher meaning than just human bla bla and then decided oh because this is my dream i could go fly and i fly and someone was following me end i was flying in a sitting position backwards and he wanted to punch me and i sing a stupid selfmade "hiphoplike" song and i decided to turn there at the supermaked and waked up again. 
> there again i would say i kind of knew that i was dreaming but i just wasn´t entirely myself? i was stupid and senseless xD
> 
> i hope you understand what i try to say i see that there is no common theme in this post ...



Dreaming is awesome!  Love your dreams, connect with them, be aware of them, and your experiences will just continue to get better and better.

----------


## RelaxAndDream

Some statistics of the awsome sexy sensei´s competition

*Spoiler* for _summary all nights_: 




Day 1: 
WBTB (failed) 2pts
2 dreamfragments 1pt 
= 3pts total

Night 2:
2 Dreams - 2p
6 fragments - 3p 
WBTB - 2p
First DILD of the Night - 10p
RC - 1p
invulnerability - 5p
Fully Phase through Big Solid Object - 10p
Challenge Tasks - 20p
Comment on 3 dream journalentry - 1p
Total for Night 2 = 54 points

Night 3:
3 NLD - 3p
2 fragments - 1p
Wbtb - 2p
3 comments - 1p
Total 7 points 

Day 4:
2 NLD - 2p
2 fragments - 1p
WBTB (success or failure) - 2 points
First DILD of the Night - 10 points
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points 
Use an Electronic Device/Ordinary Object to Perform Dream Control - 5 points
Gain Invulnerability - 5 points 
Advanced Flying - 10 points
Element Manipulation - 10 points
Advanced Summoning - 10 points
Complete first chosen task - 5 points
3 DJ comments - 1 point
Total: 63 Points

Night 5:
3 NLD - 3p
2 fragments - 1p
WBTB (success or failure) - 2 points
First WILD of the Night - 10 points
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points 
First DILD of the Night - 10 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points 
Subsequent DILDs - 5 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
Eat Something - 5 points
Complete second chosen task - 10 points
Fly - 5 points
Basic Summoning - 5 points
Complete a NEW Personal Goal - 15 points
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points 
DC Manipulation / Mind Control - 5 points
Telekinesis - 5 points
Subsequent DILDs - 5 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
Night Total: 95 Points

Night 6:
2 NLD - 2p
2 fragments - 1p
WBTB (success or failure) - 2 points
First DILD of the Night - 10 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
3 comments - 1 point
Total Night: 17 points

Night 7:
1 NLD - 1 point
1 fragment - 0,5 Points
WBTB - 2 points
First DILD of the Night - 10 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points 
Ask for Advice - 5 points
Use an Ordinary Object to Perform Dream Control - 5 points
Fly - 5 points
Telekinesis - 5 points
Basic Summoning - 5 points
Fully Phase through Big Solid Object - 10 points
Complete third chosen task - 15 points
3 DJ comments - 1 point
Night Total: 67,5 Points 

Night 8:
3 NLD´s 3 points 
5 Fragments - 2.5 points
WBTB - 2 points 
3 DJ Comments - 1 point
Night Total: 8,5 Points 

Night 9:
NLD - 1 point
WBTB - 2 points
First DILD of the Night - 10 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
Gain Invulnerability - 5 points
Basic Summoning - 5 points
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points 
Use an Ordinary Object to Perform Dream Control - 5 points
Super Strength - 5 points
Partial Transformation - 5 points
Telekinesis - 5 points
Element Manipulation - 10 points 
Eat Something - 5 points
Object/DC Changing - 5 points
Complete first chosen task - 5 points
Complete second chosen task - 10 points
Complete third chosen task - 15 points
Complete a NEW Personal Goal - 15 points 
Night Total: 111 Points 

Night 10:
NLD - 2 points
2 fragments - 1 point 
WBTB - 2 points
First DILD of the Night - 10 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points (hell yea i interacted with his balls...)
Chain a Lucid Dream - 2 points
Basic Summoning - 5 points
Complete a NEW Personal Goal - 15 points (summon Nightfeather)
Meet a teammate - 7 points
Reality Check / Stabilization - 1 point
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points
Have a teammate teach you something* - 10 points --> does this count? i dont really know if she teached me how to do it but showed me? 
Telekinesis - 5 points
Subsequent DILDs - 5 points
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points 
Basic Summoning - 5 points
DC Manipulation / Mind Control - 5 points
Element Manipulation - 10 points 
Week 2 Challenge - 20 points
3 DJ comments - 1 point
Night Total: 113 Points

Night 11:
NLD - 2 points
WBTB - 2 points 
First DILD of the Night - 10 points
Basic Summoning - 5 points
Meet a teammate - 7 points 
Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points
3 DJ comments - 1 point
Night Total: 29 Points 

Night 12:
2 NLD - 2 points
6 fragments - 3 points
WBTB - 2 points 
Night Total: 7 Points

Night 13:
3 DJ Comments - 1 point
Night Total: 1 Point

Night 14:
3 NLD - 3 points 
2 fragments - 1 point
WBTB - 2 points
DILD - 10 points 
RC - 1 point
Basic summoning - 5 points 
Use Ordinary object for dream control - 5 points
Interact with DC - 2 points 
Mind control DC - 5 points 
Telekinesis - 5 points 
Superspeed - 5 points 
Fly - 5 points 
Superstrengh - 5 points (very high jump) 
Element manipulation - 10 points
Electric device - 5 points 
3 DJ Comments - 1 point
Night Total: 70 Points


Competition Final: 646 Points 




Statistics: 

13 WBTB´s
32 fragments
26 Dreams
12 DILDS
1 WILD
1 DEILD
-->14 of 40 Dreams lucid: 35%

5 Nights without LD (36%)
9 Nights with LD (64%)
2,86 Dreams per Night
2,29 Fragments per Night

most lucids in one night: 4

----------


## fogelbise

It looks like you had a very eventful competition! Congratulations on your accomplishments and on the wings I see!  :smiley:

----------


## RelaxAndDream

Hello again with a problem i experienced the last times more often:

i have sometimes problems with not falling back to sleep after a "short" wbtb like today:

got to bed at 11 pm woke up the first time at 1 am (which is good i think) then again at 1:50 with a dream. i wrote the dream down ( a little bit more than a page, needed about 20min) then told my mantras did some visualisation and tried to fall asleep but somehow i couldnt...
lay awake for abot 3h... now super tierd and you can guess no LD after the wbtb because way to drained and at some point JUST wanted to fall asleep so i can sleep for good... i stand up after an hour for toilet and some water in the hope it will change my brainactivity. didnt help^^

dont know where my problem was. maby a little to enthusiastic or excited after the mantras and the visualisation and then i have the problem that i want or do watch myself why falling asleep and everytime i would i notice it and am awake again because i try to "let my last thought be about LD or my Mantra or Visualisation" so i just dont fall asleep. and when i say fuck this i just want to fall asleep it doesnt work anymore because i see my thoughts the whole time like in meditation i just cant klick of my head anymore.... dont know what to do about it :/

how to do this? do you just repeat your mantras for like 5 times than turn around and try to fall asleep normal whitout any more intention for ld for example? i think that i can set my intention pretty good. maby to good and then just cant let go because i think when i "just try to fall asleep normaly" i dont get a LD and i need to focus and hold my intention. maby i try to hard and i dont need to but what is you opinion?

----------


## FryingMan

Ah, BTS (back to sleep) challenges.   The bane and the story of my LDing practice.   I had horrible horrible BTS problems early in my practice, especially once I started doing SSILD, MILD, etc.   This is fairly common, there is a group of people who just wake up really fast, and seem to have very active minds that make it hard to fall back asleep.   I still have them from time to time, but after working on it consistently I now can confidently return to sleep almost all of the time.   Sometimes it does still take a while, though.   The good news is that after a long slow BTS, LDs are quite likely to happen IMO.

I eventually had to address this head-on as I wasn't getting full night's sleep a lot of the time, and was missing the juiciest last REM cycles of the day where the best dreaming happens.

Some things that help:

* getting regular exercise, to the point where you get tired by the end of it (but not too close to bedtime)

* sleep friendly diet, no late large, heavy/fatty meals.  Things like milk, cheese, turkey, whole-grain crackers, a banana before bed (small quantities though) can really help you fall asleep.   Almonds during the day, too: they have minerals that help relax the body.

* read up a lot on relaxation, and try many different techniques until you find one that really works for you.   All the techniques (MILD, WILD, etc.) all emphasize starting with thorough relaxation before beginning the technique.   Many people (me included) skip this important step.   Don't skip it!   It's really important.

* stop "trying" to do anything.   Almost the instant I stop "trying" to dream, fall asleep, etc., is the moment when I do.   You just have to trust that the WBTB and the mantra/intention will work.   I can never keep a mantra going all the way to falling asleep, I have to stop it at some point and just "give up" myself to sleep.

* as weird as it sounds, get up out of bed!   Sitting up on a chair in another room in the dark with eyes closed, or even doing some quiet activity, can really help promote drowsiness, especially if you keep yourself a bit cool temperature-wise.    Some people write that you should not lie in bed trying to fall asleep for more than about 15-20 minutes.   If you're not sleeping after that amount of time, get up, and let the drowsiness settle in faster.    I find that getting drowsy while lying in bed can take a really long time.   You're trying to train your mind to really understand that bed is for sleeping, not for tossing and turning for hours.

* lie still.  You fall asleep faster if you don't move around a lot.  Of course, you should make yourself comfortable, though.

In particular, I like to do breathing attention relaxation:   on every exhale, I tell myself I'm getting more and more relaxed, going "deeper and deeper," sort of a self-hypnosis narration.    On every exhale, continually release all mental (important!) and physical tension.   Really try to tune in to your body everywhere and release tension, especially from the face: eyes, jaw, cheek.   Discovering that I was holding tension in my eyes was one of the major discoveries to getting BTS faster.

Good luck!   There's lots of more info on the internet about how to promote good sleep and falling asleep and relaxation, research and experiment until you hit on the winning recipe!

----------


## RelaxAndDream

Ty for your answer. Some of it might help but all in all i dont have normal or regular problems with falling asleep. if i meditate befor bed i need like 5 to 10min to fall asleep same if i wake up at night go to the toilet and just go back to bed. 

my problem is really i think the fact that i want to LD. i say up my mantras i set my intention and visualize what i want todream or accomplish in my LD and THAT makes me awake or to aware or whatever. 

so you say if i say up my mantras and my intention i just let go afterwards and let my mind wander and just fall asleep like always like i dont intent anything to happen?

----------


## FryingMan

It's something to try, yes.   You need to find what works best for you.

----------


## RelaxAndDream

Thanks again. Tried it tonight and had a pretty good lucid. 
I woke up once, did a Wbtb with toilet but didn't write anything down to shorten my awake time. Say up my mantras and intention and turn around and just fall asleep. Worked well and had first a dream where I told a friend of mine about lucid dreaming and that on the beginning it is normal to habe very short lucids. In another dream I got bitten B a snake and got lucid by that. 

And I remember that during the competition I had something like this before. One night I had a lucid and wanted another one but to forceful was awake for a very long time with no Ld. 
Next day I was tired so I didn't aim for a long Wbtb just wanted to get as much sleep as possible and just repeated my mantra with every micro awakening and got 2 Ld the night... 
So sometime less is maby more. 

Will need to try that some more times to see if it is reproducible but at least it CAN work. 

+ your hint with getting up and sit a while when I see that I don't fall asleep is a good idea. Didn't know that but it makes sense. 
The rest if it especially the food things i already did a try and error with  :;-):

----------


## RelaxAndDream

hey there (who´s there?),
i thought about to reactivate my workbook so i get some contact, feedback and motivation. i had a pretty long pause from lucid dreaming. more or less around two years i think. i was pretty good at it and got around half a year or something still random lucids and could get them pretty fast if i wanted to. now i feel like i forgot nearly everything or atleast i dont feel it anymore like before. i do still dj. but most of the time i dont journal during night but only in the morning. i can journal between 2 and 4 dreams like this. last week i managed to get lucid twice. so atleast there is still something  :smiley:  

i think i will go for MILD and SSILD again because in the past i had pretty good success with it. since around a week i do prospective memory training again. i made me a list and pick 4 items every day. i feel like its getting better. some things are very easy to remember and some things i just dont notice but i think its because the way i perceive the world. but there is progress and its more or less funny and it helps to stay mindfull atleast a little. 
i do 1h vipassana meditation every morning. but now i really focus on the meditation and dont link it with lucid dreaming as i did before. 

i do random reality checks every now and then. 

i read thru this thread and i think i will reactivate my mantras again:

 "i remember all my dreams they are important to me and they are precious!" --> when i go to bed i dont just knock out and wake up in the morning. i try to rest and be aware of my sleep. i try to not let my mind wander but let it still focus on my breath and set my intention.
- "i am a lucid dreamer. lucid dreaming is easy. i will be aware of my surroundings and notice differences!" --> i then remember my last dreams and think about the moments i could get lucid.
i use the mantras before i fall asleep and inbetween WBTB´s. 


i am still not sure about dj at night. it is very exhausting on the one hand and i remember that if i only did microwbtb with recalling but not writing and setting intention my lucidity rate was way higher than actually writing something and doing a proper induction technique. i´m pretty sure that in the end i knew what to do or go for the feeling and it got second nature. i naturally reflected previous dream and set intention to get lucid in following dream. this worked pretty good but i think i cant do it the way i did in my good times. i think i might need to journal during night a little so i notice my wakenings again and get used to beeing awake more often at night...

i think i will set me the goal to try once a night a bigger induction with short toilet some journaling and ssild or something similar. 

my biggest hurdle is the fact that i dont have a proper goal. before i was super super motivated just out of curiosity there was so much to explore and to do and i was super excited about learning new dream control. now i dont know exactly what my goal should be. i would love to get in touch with my subconscious and get some help from something in me helping with problems i have with myself/waking life. but this is a goal that is too unspecific and vague. i really dont know how to get in contact with the constructive, helpful part in me. i already tried to run around in a lucid and asking for help but also in the lucid i just met a friend and we did random stuff... dont know if i expect too much or not enough or dont believe in it.... dont know... 

i also will try may´s TOTMS again because they motivate me to get lucid most of the time.

yea thats it so far for the first post. feel free to comment and give me some advice  :smiley:

----------


## fogelbise

RelaxAndDream, it's great to see you again! FryingMan was saying, somewhat recently, how great your username is...how it identifies a good approach to lucid dreaming. If we get too stressed about results, it works against us. One of the keys for you may be in the philosophy inherent in your username.  

That said, I really like your plan of doing induction techniques with wbtb or micro-wbtbs, at least until you get back to that natural feel for it.

I have also struggled with goals lately and I agree that goals need to be specific and also something that easily excites you. Definitely check out the TOTMs, especially if you find something that really sounds exciting to you. I probably should at least look at them too.

I definitely believe your best chance of getting constructive, helpful answers from yourself is to fully expect helpful DCs that have such answers. I've had success with this expectation, but with a little different goals. Another good thing to try if you are feeling confident about getting back to sleep is to seek such answers during the hynagogic stage of falling asleep. Many great minds found "creative/outside the box" answers in this state: Thomas Edison, Edgar Allen Poe, Vladimir Nabokov, Mary Shelley, Albert Einstein, Salvador Dali, August Kekule, and Richard Wagner as mentioned in a recent Vice article "MIT Researchers Have Developed a System for Dream Control." I remember reading about some of these people and additional people in other articles as well discussing important scientific and innovative discoveries found in this state.

Did you have any questions?

----------


## RelaxAndDream

Haha i am happy to hear  that FryingMan still celebrates my username  :smiley:  i have to get in touch with him too  :smiley: 

this night it seem like i was too lazy for induction... i journaled two times during night and the recall was pretty good so i think falling asleep with the mantra and really focus on dreaming and not on random stuff falling asleep is a good habit. after wakings i used the other mantra and reflected my previous dreams but i was to lazy to do a proper ssild or something similar... too bad... but i had one or i think actually two semi lucids. so there was an impact on my dreams but it was not big enough thats good. maybe a little more force in the mantra like staying awake by it several more minutes/ more repetitions might do it already.

in one dream i used a lot of fireballs mixed with lightning and superspeed and stuff to get away from villains. i have to know i was dreaming because i was wondering how easy the dreamcontrol was whereas when i am fully lucid i have way more problems with fireballs and stuff like this so this was actually a good dream to remember for future lucids. 
but then again i was lazy with journaling in the morning hours. i felt that at 8 am if i would journal properly i might not fall asleep so i just evaluated the dream and fall asleep again several times thus lacking proper recall... 

i think i will really do some TOTMS. previously i think a big motivation was the comparison with others. how fast and how many totms i could do and stuff but now i feel a little disconnected with the community. i dont have anyone who is on a similar lvl and into some exchange. today i thought about the buddy program and if its still existing? but finding someone on a similar lvl and have similar interests...  :smiley:  will see i am eager to connect myself here again and write here and there something and with time i will find some common faces again i hope.






> I definitely believe your best chance of getting constructive, helpful answers from yourself is to *fully expect* helpful DCs that have such answers.



this one is the tricky part. with all dreamcontrol you really want and can believe to go thru walls because its just a dream but when you lower your head and close your eyes just a little you sure will run against instead of thru the wall  :wink2: 
the thing is i really want to believe in DC´s but in my nature i am someone who does things on my own and dont ask for help most of the time and this reflects in my dreams and my lucids... i try to change this also in waking life but its a long process to ask and accept help even tho you know you could do it on your own. and another thing is i am not a guy who has role models... i say this because i thought okay maybe a random DC i wont trust but if it was a wise guy or something? but i cant really imagine a guy whom i would trust just like that i have no role model that would fit into the picture. and asking random dc´s for help? its to vague again... and again i think i make it more complicated as it might be but i like to have a plan and understand the thing i want to do before i do it. the imagination of a DG is very tempting but i have no idea how to find him or how to make him or how to "fully expect" that he/she is there and i will find it when i am looking long enough for it... but as i said something in me is changing the past month and there is a development. i start looking out for help and i want to take refuge in someone/something/my inner self/intuition something like this... 

the thing with the hypnagogic state is interesting i also had read about this somewhere but i dont have a specific problem that turns around in my head for quite some time that i just can let go and let do the rest by my subconsciousness to get out of the box.

questions? not in particular... any propositions of threads i should read again or something i might forgot or miss? know someone who might be a good fit as a buddy to exchange regulary?

----------


## FryingMan

Hey!   Yeah I'm still here.  Waking life is taking a higher priority in the last couple of years and that's putting dreaming a bit on the back burner, but I still at least a little bit always reach for recall every morning.     Yes I always give your username as a great summary of the whole process  :smiley: .     Relaxation as mindfulness, in particular, is how I think of it.   And as fogelbise says, relaxation as in "not stressing about results."

Pay active attention to all conscious experience, reflect upon these experiences ("is this dream-like?"), and practice recalling these experiences (review your day in the evening before bed, just like how you review dream memories in the morning).  Set very strong intention to be lucid in dreams, and to connect *very closely* with your dreams.

First comes vivid dreams.   Vivid dreams come from attention / mindfulness to *all* experience (waking or dreaming).   Bring your mind and attention purposefully and calmly to the present moment, as often and for as long as you can, all the time (waking / dreaming).

For lucidity, strive to be a lucid person.   A daytime lucid person will have lucid dreams at night often, because our mind operates in more or less the same mode, just with the limitations of the dream state.    People who practice mindlessness during the day are practicing how to have vague, cloudy, hazy, unclear dream experiences at night.   This is because their daytime waking experiences are also hazy, unclear, poorly recalled.

That's some good stuff to work on.

Re-read the foundational literature (check the bibliograhy in my signature, it's in the DILD section as a sticky).   Doing so keeps your mind on lucid dreaming and helps to incubate lucid dreams.   It's also very motivating.

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on having some fun semi lucids, that is a great sign that full lucidity is likely right around the corner.





> i think i will really do some TOTMS. previously i think a big motivation was the comparison with others. how fast and how many totms i could do and stuff but now i feel a little disconnected with the community. i dont have anyone who is on a similar lvl and into some exchange. today i thought about the buddy program and if its still existing? but finding someone on a similar lvl and have similar interests...  will see i am eager to connect myself here again and write here and there something and with time i will find some common faces again i hope.
> ...
> ...know someone who might be a good fit as a buddy to exchange regulary?



Do you mean comparison as in competition helps you? There is a May competition, though I haven't seen the specifics and don't know if there is still time to join. Competitions are always a good way to find who out there is similar to you. One person I thought of (charles3) is someone who seems like a good up and coming lucid dreamer (very new, but he has gotten off to fast start absorbing lots of material and experimenting I think). He has very good recall most of the time and has racked up 90+ lucids in maybe 6 months, I think it is. What type of interaction did you have in mind? I may have additional suggestions.






> the thing is i really want to believe in DC´s but in my nature i am someone who does things on my own and dont ask for help most of the time and this reflects in my dreams and my lucids...i try to change this also in waking life but its a long process to ask and accept help even tho you know you could do it on your own...
> 
> ...the imagination of a DG is very tempting but i have no idea how to find him or how to make him or how to "fully expect" that he/she is there and i will find it when i am looking long enough for it... 
> 
> ...but as i said something in me is changing the past month and there is a development. i start looking out for help and i want to take refuge in someone/something/my inner self/intuition something like this...



Your inner self is more what I had in mind when I mentioned talking to DCs. I think that at least most DCs are some part of you and can be a way to tap into your hidden wisdom and intuition. You could ask to talk to your highest self. "When I turn around (or go through this door) I want to talk to my highest self" or similar that rings true for you.

@FM - good stuff as always! I actually want to review the important links as well, hoping to make time for that today.

----------


## RelaxAndDream

I indeed see already some progress, I managed to get Lucid 5 times in 4 different nights in the last two weeks.. This is pretty good for just the beginning since I stated with proper constant effort. It is still some work but I start to get a slight feeling about it. Still don't know how much the minimum is I have to to do so it works out and i get Lucid but I think so far I spend more energy into it then necessary. This is a luxury problem but this also means that I can't keep the energy up for every night. So far at least but if I will keep up the effort I think I will get a hang for it pretty fast again. 
I just need to stay motivated that's the only importing variable... :-) 
For techniques:
I do prospective memory training. It's pretty effective I start to have this moments where I do something completely different and suddenly out of nowhere I remember my item on the list even tho an hour ago I couldn't even remember the task while actively thinking about it. 
It makes fun, I always have to smile when it happens out of the nowhere, I experiment with all senses and where to seed the memory to make it works best. 

And in the night first half intention setting and remembering goals and then go for manta for recall and after enough hours of sleep and Journaling dreams I switch for lucidity and go with other mantra and recall last dream with no Journaling and use it for mild and and mantra and I get a feeling for it. Also one time ssild was working but needed more time or effort than classical mild with getting a feeling for it. 

I think I buy me 'Llewellyn's Complete Book of Lucid Dreaming "

Should motivate me. I will write tomorrow or so more, but I have to leave now. Then I will also answer to your posts (thanks btw some useful input)

----------


## RelaxAndDream

> ...practice recalling these experiences (review your day in the evening before bed, just like how you review dream memories in the morning).



this one is really good i remembering doing it some years ago with pretty big impact on my recall. but it needs quite some time (30-45min when i do it in max detail) and is a way of meditation on its own because you often often loose track and need to refocus... i found it pretty timeconsuming because i also wanted to meditate in the evening back then... maybe i try it in a lighter more relaxed way less detailed... i will keep it in the back of my head... so far i make good progress and dont want to give 110% again...^^





> Set very strong intention to be lucid in dreams, and to connect *very closely* with your dreams.



how do you connect with your dreams very closely? i know people that dream super intense and vivid and need some time after waking to anchor them back in "reality" waking life... i can count my super vivid dreams (where i really wake up and wonder how come that i was somewhere completely else and cant believe it or wish to go back) on maybe one or two hands. i would love to give them more importance and learn from them like other people do. but i dont know how to give them more importance... i could read my DJ (what i kind of never do except i want to look up something... in the moment i write them down i can remember them good enough...)





> First comes vivid dreams.   Vivid dreams come from attention / mindfulness to *all* experience (waking or dreaming).   Bring your mind and attention purposefully and calmly to the present moment, as often and for as long as you can, all the time (waking / dreaming). 
> For lucidity, strive to be a lucid person.   A daytime lucid person will have lucid dreams at night often, because our mind operates in more or less the same mode, just with the limitations of the dream state.    People who practice mindlessness during the day are practicing how to have vague, cloudy, hazy, unclear dream experiences at night.   This is because their daytime waking experiences are also hazy, unclear, poorly recalled.



i try and i see that prospective memory training comes in handy for this because awareness or mindfulness is kind of a prospective memory work its about remembering to be mindful and notice it when you are mindless





> Re-read the foundational literature (check the bibliograhy in my signature, it's in the DILD section as a sticky).   Doing so keeps your mind on lucid dreaming and helps to incubate lucid dreams.   It's also very motivating.



i did and i will do more when i have time. some nice links you gathered there  :smiley:  and i agree beeing more active here and reading more is a good way of keeping your head on lucid dreaming.






> Do you mean comparison as in competition helps you? There is a May competition, though I haven't seen the specifics and don't know if there is still time to join. Competitions are always a good way to find who out there is similar to you. One person I thought of (charles3) is someone who seems like a good up and coming lucid dreamer (very new, but he has gotten off to fast start absorbing lots of material and experimenting I think). He has very good recall most of the time and has racked up 90+ lucids in maybe 6 months, I think it is. What type of interaction did you have in mind? I may have additional suggestions.



yea before competition was a super boost for me. and it probably still is but therefore i have to be into lucid dreaming. i noticed with last competition that the whole theme of lucid dreaming was not important enough and therefore "getting points in a whatever competition" was not enough to motivate me properly... i saw the may comp but its a whole month and i really really try to go slow and not exhaust myself right at start again... want to make it feel easier and natural before go for competitions plus i really feel like the competitions where more exciting when sensei or spellbee hosted them with more participants and a closer outcome? maybe its just me. 
i cant really tell you whom i am looking for exactly. someone for regular exchange... maybe charles might be a good hit. i had a time i wrote with a girl and we shared dreams nearly every day that motivated me but it was sad that i got better super fast while she was stagnating, i think atleast for her it was depressing? then i had some awesome regular contact with sensei as a tutor or teacher. that helped alot... i would love some motivating and inspiring exchange... someone i can learn from or be atleast at one lvl. 

i feel like i have less time then some years ago? but maybe its a thing of focus and motivation/dedication. i am happy with the amount i am investing but i wanted to post here days ago and just had the quiet moment now... years ago i would make me the time every day  :smiley:  so will have to see if i have enough time for a regular convo  with someone. 





> Your inner self is more what I had in mind when I mentioned talking to DCs. I think that at least most DCs are some part of you and can be a way to tap into your hidden wisdom and intuition. You could ask to talk to your highest self. "When I turn around (or go through this door) I want to talk to my highest self" or similar that rings true for you.



interesting...  :smiley:  i might try something like this...

i had some more tries. in one of them a woman told me "we are all acid [säure in german] and everyone has its purpose" i asked: Acid? you mean soul [seele] and she just looked disappointed/angry at me so i moved on. in another one a guy just showed me with one hand a hole and moved with his index finger of the other hand in a repeating motion in and out of the hole if you know what i mean... i tried to kick him he tried to kick me and i got a bad feeling about the dream/him/the situation so i run away... 
i tried it also with a good friend i have if she could help me.. there was also some semi deep talk that after waking was fragmented and i dont know if there was deeper sense in it...

will keep on trying...


this morning i managed to get lucid and doing a totm... i just did like 3 or 4 rounds of short ssild and then focused on mantra shortly and instantly fall asleep... so really not a lot of time or effort invested but thats what i mean i start to get a feeling how much focus intention you need to invest. i think you dont need 100 repetitions of mantra or 10 ssild cycles, you just need intention what you want to do and then last thought should stay with it before you fall asleep... maybe  :smiley: 





> @FM - good stuff as always! I actually want to review the important links as well, hoping to make time for that today.



And? did you do?  :smiley:  how is your practice, are you happy with your effort and the outcome?

and yea i ordered the book will be here in two days... i am excited. so far i read daniel loves short book every morning for one or two sites... nothing special but a good start in the day i think

thank you guys for your input!

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## fogelbise

First of all, congratulations on the lucids!





> i feel like i have less time then some years ago? but maybe its a thing of focus and motivation/dedication. i am happy with the amount i am investing but i wanted to post here days ago and just had the quiet moment now... years ago i would make me the time every day  so will have to see if i have enough time for a regular convo  with someone.



Well, whatever you come up with you are always welcome to get feedback here in the workbook or PM me. I do see Sensei post on DV from time to time as well.





> interesting...  i might try something like this...



Also, some people also just call out to the dream (up in the sky or whatever fits your schemas).





> i had some more tries. in one of them a woman told me "we are all acid [säure in german] and everyone has its purpose" i asked: Acid? you mean soul [seele] and she just looked disappointed/angry at me so i moved on. in another one a guy just showed me with one hand a hole and moved with his index finger of the other hand in a repeating motion in and out of the hole if you know what i mean... i tried to kick him he tried to kick me and i got a bad feeling about the dream/him/the situation so i run away... 
> i tried it also with a good friend i have if she could help me.. there was also some semi deep talk that after waking was fragmented and i dont know if there was deeper sense in it...
> 
> will keep on trying...



Some promising stuff from the woman and your friend. Looking at these experiences as promising should help to seed more promising and useful interactions with DCs in the future.






> this morning i managed to get lucid and doing a totm... i just did like 3 or 4 rounds of short ssild and then focused on mantra shortly and instantly fall asleep... so really not a lot of time or effort invested but thats what i mean i start to get a feeling how much focus intention you need to invest. i think you dont need 100 repetitions of mantra or 10 ssild cycles, you just need intention what you want to do and then last thought should stay with it before you fall asleep... maybe



Yes, if that feels right to you, I am confident that will work for you. Sometimes you may need more repetitions to set that intention properly and other times you get to it quicker. I do something similar but often go a little longer "to be sure" but usually that is because my intention is drifting and needs to be reset on course.





> And? did you do?  how is your practice, are you happy with your effort and the outcome?



1. I started to and then remembered I was reviewing my personal past practices and switched to back to that since lucid dreaming is very much about finding your own path...much less of a cookie cutter method than we like to think. But that source material can remind you what was working for you before and give you new ideas to experiment with. I find that trying new things keeps it from getting boring.

2. If you asked me a few weeks ago, I would have said that I wasn't happy with my results lately. More recently though, I am quite happy with them and the amount of effort. A few weeks ago I was still slacking way too much and now I seem to be putting better effort into lucid dreaming and seem to be getting my good results back. I don't like to become over confident though - that seems to backfire for me personally - mainly because it causes me to slack or think that I don't need to put in much effort.






> thank you guys for your input!



You're welcome! I think FM may be away momentarily and it may take him a little longer to reply.

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## FryingMan

> this one is really good i remembering doing it some years ago with pretty big impact on my recall. but it needs quite some time (30-45min when i do it in max detail) and is a way of meditation on its own because you often often loose track and need to refocus... i found it pretty timeconsuming because i also wanted to meditate in the evening back then... maybe i try it in a lighter more relaxed way less detailed... i will keep it in the back of my head... so far i make good progress and dont want to give 110% again...^^



You don't have to do the whole day (although the more time one spends on this, the better, I'd think).   What I sometimes do is make special note of a few/several moments and specifically intend to review those in the evening.





> *how do you connect with your dreams very closely?*...



It's a combination of factors and practices: intending strongly to pay attention to and remember dream experiences.  Being thankful for and valuing your dreams, especially non-lucid ones.    Developing a practice of reaching for recall immediately upon waking.   Realizing fully that you do dream, a lot, every night.   Having full confidence and expectation that you will remember your dreams at length and in great detail.    Having great, consistent dream recall is a sign that you've established such a connection...

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## RelaxAndDream

sofar i am back on a similar level as before... that was faster then expected... if i dont need to get up early i just go for sleep i dont go too much for recall in first half of night. its enough to recall anything to go for lucidity (MILD) in second half... the last several tries i always got lucid when i tried. i combine SSILD with MILD. i think about what i want to do then i do some short SSILD cycles to calm down and focus my mind then i turn on my side when i feel that i fall asleep soon (noticing slight hypnagogia) and say my mantra or one or two more cycles. this needs not too much time or effort but nevertheless i really need to want to be lucid and know what i want to do with it. sofar (probably because i am not very long in training again) i dont get spontaneous lucids. so effort to lucidity rate is good... 

so i had a talk with someone that led me to the conclusion that i slowly step by step need to get trust in my DC`s before i might get proper answers. similar with phasing you dont just run thru a wall first time but fist you do just a hand than maybe backwards thru a wall until you step by step loose the schemata that walls are solid after some time its no problem and second nature....
so with this in mind i decided not to want THE solution and a dreamguide or help or anything from a DC but i set the goal to be nice to my DCs and just have a proper talk. not a good or a useful or something like this talk (again a lot of evaluation and expectation) but just some random talk with DC´s. 
and what should i say it was very very nice... recall was not too good because of several DEILDS (for some reason after a waking with little movement i remembered a talk with a friend of mine who told me she can go to the toilet and back and dream same dream because she holds to the feeling so i just calmly waited and had several DEILDS in that night) but it was nice to be good to my DC´s and treat them with respect  and be friendly without expectation. 

sadly this nights lucid i wanted to ask if they might teach / i might learn something from them but for some reason i got stuck in old habit... i asked a DC that looked like a friend if he can help me he just talked a lot of stuff (seemed not to be interesting ... again this expectation and evaluation :/) then i was running away asked into the sky for help started nearly crying... asked god for help (i am not religious...) then got angry and was running again. i saw some plants on the ground (i was looking for any sign). they had different colors and i thought each plant is for an element or a characteristic. i ate the one next to yellow because for me yellow was sun and fire. it was sour but i didnt saw an effect... after that i was running away from some mafia guys draw a portal (didnt do that for quite some time) and entered into the void. there again i asked for help or guidance or something like that (cant remember exact wording) and nothing there. false awakening shortly awake...
this dream was "sad" because i was so desperate... 

it seems like i try to hard and cant wait for proper signs or an outcome or just see what happens...

i think i will try again with just talking to DC´s without any specific theme or expectation. it felt very good... on the other hand it is a goal that is vague so i see the problem of loosing lucidity or atleast higher awareness to medium awareness and i dont know when i complete task so i can do something else... but yea its all about small steps maybe the one and only goal to just befriend and get to know DC´s might be goal enough for a lucid...

plus i really enjoyed the let a DC sing you a song TOTM... maybe i will try to listen to some of my favorite music in a lucid - i have radiohead in my mind... should make an interesting feeling also...

so atleast two basic totms are done... i think i will try also an advanced one... how with you fogelbise. have you seen the tasks? maybe you also do one of them? would like to read one from you  :wink2: 

i also writed charles. this might get a good dreambuddy. will see  :smiley: 

@FM: 
i will try not to forget... i might try it before falling asleep... but i think i need to experiment... i think its not about the major points in the day it is all about remembering with as much detail and as few gaps as possible to have a benefit on recall or what do you think? like its better to do last hour or so with max detail instead of half or all day with just the major points?
just a thought...

to the connect with your dreams... i reach out for recall most of the time and its getting better but i dont know if this is enough to really connect to my dreams... i feel like even tho i value them and i am into lucid dreaming nevertheless subcon. they are "just" dreams to me. some of them are interesting to see they have meaning but i think most of them is random noise... and that again is bad bad thinking but i dont know how to change it  :Sad:

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## FryingMan

> @FM: 
> i will try not to forget... i might try it before falling asleep... but i think i need to experiment... i think its not about the major points in the day it is all about remembering with as much detail and as few gaps as possible to have a benefit on recall or what do you think? like its better to do last hour or so with max detail instead of half or all day with just the major points?
> just a thought...



As always, it's all about what works for you.   The point I'm trying to get across is that the more purposeful attention you can bring to your present moment, whether in the waking or dreaming state, the more vivid both the experience will be and the memory of the experience.    The point of the review is having reaching for memories of prior experiences be a twice-daily occurrence: at least once in the waking day [e.g., in the evening before bed], and at least once in the morning after the dreaming night (or every time you wake up, if you like).    

I think reaching back for memories from all through the day is very valuable.   Especially establishing particular points you want to remember, perhaps using a mnemonic system.  This helps you remember specific things in lucid dreams that you really want to make sure you recall upon waking.

"Connecting" is about the recall, the attitude, and the intention to make dreaming a purposeful part of your life.   Having high dream recall is a sign of a strong connection.

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## Charles3

Hi @RelaxandDream! I just read the last 4 posts in here. I figured it would be a good thing to try to keep up. I want to go back and review the earlier posts too, just didn't want to take on too much at once. 

2 things I wanted to comment on:

waking life recall taking time

I have this too. Last night I did like 3,000 words of waking life recall. I wanted to be super, super thorough. Actually I had to finish it the next morning I was so thorough. I want to do a super, super thorough waking life recall. I think it will show me that if my waking life recall takes like 3 hours, maybe I need to simplify things somehow. I want to keep doing it because like @FryingMan said I want to have more clarity of mind, even just in waking life. 

reading my own DJ

Ya. This one is big for me. And I'm not doing it!! I don't know where to find the time. I used to put my dreams as mp3 files and then listen back instead of radio in the car. but lately I'm trying not to use any audio at all while I'm doing tasks, just focus more. And alot of my reading time is stuff... other than my own dreams. IDK how to force myself to want to read my own dreams again. I write them, and recall them, but I feel like that's it. I feel like reviewing my own DJ gave me a better connection to my dreams. I think everyone's dreams have a specific feel so reviewing our own is different than reading others. Thats also the thing I am reading others DJ's but not my own. I don't know how to manage this. 

Also, do you keep your dream journal online anywhere? I'll check your profile but I didn't use to see it. I'd like to read your dreams if you have them up. Hopefully I'm not taking on too much activities.

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