# Sleep and Dreams > Beyond Dreaming >  >  I need help opening my "pineal gland" or (third eye)!    Pleaseeeeee help!

## youngjedi

So I have been messing around with lucid dreaming for about a 3 weeks now. I have found that the best technique for me becoming lucid is the WILD method. I have had 4 very good WILD's within these last three weeks! After my last one I seem to have a feeling as if neurons are sparking off in my brain or as if my brain is growing/expanding. Sometimes I can feel my heartbeat in the center of my forehead, and this happens all day long now not just when I close my eyes to try to enter a WILD. After doing alot of reading and research online I have found that my symptoms are those common of your "Third Eye" or (Ajna Chakra) which is pretty much your Pineal gland becoming active or getting ready to open. It seems like I am very close to opening but cannot seem to do so, I just have this feeling in my brain all day. I could use tips on how to fully open it, or advised from someone going through the same thing. Thanks!

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## youngjedi

somebody say something! anything!  i need guidence ASAP!!!

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## Frozenlime

Relax, first of all. You should balance your chakras somewhat if you're going for it. You need to be grounded (have an open root chakra) to send the excess energy down to the earth, and probably also heart chakra as a connection between the two. If you don't, you might start to be very sensitive to energy and paranoid which can lead to you closing your root chakra. I would not reccomend it if you're not fully grounded, talking from experience.

Meditation is the key. It's redicilously easy to open your third eye on cannabis (because you put your ego on hold and are in a alpha-state), but it can be painful and result in headaches and flashing and almost overwhelming pressure, especially if you have blockages. I guess this is not the case if you open it with regular meditation over time.

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## nina

Yeah, you need to relax and slow down. If you really want to do this...then spend some time and energy and do it right. Don't look for quick answers. Have some patience. Get a book which covers the subject thoroughly, and gain as much knowledge as you can. People spend years and years dedicating themselves to such matters. It's not a skill you are going to acquire overnight...and even if you somehow managed, you would be completely unaware of the potential dangers involved. Arm yourself with knowledge. Unfortunately I don't know any books specifically about opening the third eye, but I'm sure you could find one very easily. If you're determined to experiment with such things then you should at least look into getting Practical Psychic Self Defense because opening your third eye also makes you very vulnerable to negative energies and you need to learn first how to fortify your aura and protect yourself.

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## ChaybaChayba

Fastest way to activate the pineal gland is sleep deprivation, preventing the pineal gland to secrete dream hormones, building them up, and resulting in the pineal gland restoring itself. Too much sleep is what made the pineal gland's hormone secretion unbalanced in the first place. So the fastest way to restore balance is sleep deprivation. It is a similar process like fastening to heal your stomache. If an organ does not have any rest, how can it restore itself?

For me 3 days did the trick. It is not easy, and what you need is excitement, but I see you already have that. I really don't understand why people tell you to relax as relaxing is going to make you fall asleep unconsciously. Why do so many people fail at WILD? It is because they relax, lose focus and fall asleep. WILDing is the hardest thing ever, if you managed to WILD 4 times in three weeks, then that pretty much makes you an expert on the subject. Be very careful with other people their advice as they do not always know what they are talking about and their advice may lead you to lose progress instead.

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## ChaybaChayba

> Yeah, you need to relax and slow down. If you really want to do this...then spend some time and energy and do it right. Don't look for quick answers. Have some patience. Get a book which covers the subject thoroughly, and gain as much knowledge as you can. People spend years and years dedicating themselves to such matters. It's not a skill you are going to acquire overnight...and even if you somehow managed, you would be completely unaware of the potential dangers involved. Arm yourself with knowledge. Unfortunately I don't know any books specifically about opening the third eye, but I'm sure you could find one very easily. If you're determined to experiment with such things then you should at least look into getting Practical Psychic Self Defense because opening your third eye also makes you very vulnerable to negative energies and you need to learn first how to fortify your aura and protect yourself.



You claim it is not a skill you will acquire over night, so how do you explain the fact that childeren naturally have the ability to WILD and lucid dream?

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## nina

:Picard face palm:

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## Frozenlime

> For me 3 days did the trick. It is not easy, and what you need is excitement, but I see you already have that. I really don't understand why people tell you to relax as relaxing is going to make you fall asleep unconsciously.



Who said he was going to lay down to open it? When I said relax, I mean that he shouldn't just jump into it without taking precautions in respect for his mental health.





> Be very careful with other people their advice as they do not always know what they are talking about and their advice may lead you to lose progress instead.



Touché. Actually, be careful with every advice you get and do some research. There are shortcuts and it's your decision, but this doesn't mean that you are mentally ready to handle it. Balance is really key to having an open third eye..





> You claim it is not a skill you will acquire over night, so how do you explain the fact that childeren naturally have the ability to WILD and lucid dream?



Afaik, third eye chakra ≠ third eye, allthough they are connected. You can have an open ajna chakra without having an open third eye. However, I think most of us are born with it open, but close it down during growing up.

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## youngjedi

Thanks guys for the advise and sorry i was in such a hurry to get some feedback, i just wanted to assure that it was in fact my pineal gland becoming active and not a brain tumor growing. Its kinda weird having your forehead and brain tingle all day long.

As far as why you say kids are able to wild or lucid dream is because we are all born with our pineal gland fully open. Why do you think some children see things that arent there sometimes or will be talking to nothing but air and of course people put a name on it such as "imagination". Statistically it is said that by the age of 10-12, or maybe sooner, that the flouride that is put in tap water, food, toothpaste,  builds calcium in the pineal gland and blocks it from being able to release DMT (dimethyltryptamine) in the proper way. This is the substance that creates dreams/out of body experiences. It is also released at the point of death or in near death experiences, hence why people their life flashes before their eyes. This is why you are seein alot of products that will now say "flouride free". (DO NOT DRINK TAP WATER) there is a basic explanation for all those fish dying just recently. We are being kept in a "stupid state" for a reason.

As fas as going into this unprepared, well believe me thats far from where im at. I am doing this due to my religious beliefs, i have read the entire Bible and most of the Quran so i know very well what im doing and what my goal is.  Yes i agree, if you are going to try to do this without knowing what you are getting yourself into then it is very dangerous, you have to mentally prepare yourself for what you will experience.  Unfortunately the secrets of the pineal gland have been kept hidded for centuries and it is really hard to find GOOD info on the subject.

Thanks again for your help guys and dont let them keep you in this matrix they have built! BREAK FREE!

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## ChaybaChayba

> 



Facepalming is not a valid logical argument. Nice try tho.

So how do you explain the fact his all comes natural to childeren?

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## GMoney

ChaybaChayba, I'm not so sure it's a good idea to recommend sleep deprivation to anyone...it's an awful thing and even though I don't understand half this thread (chakra?  third eye?  I've never heard this stuff before) I can tell you that it's a good idea to get 8-10 hours of sleep each night.  Depriving yourself of sleep probably isn't healthy and it's certainly not comfortable.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

We all hear about things like chakras and third eyes and we read about it. This gets us confused. Then we imagine things. The pineal gland is actually the crown chakra, but so what? The third eye is the pituitary. Actually, these glands are the physical counterparts to the energetic chakras. However, what does it mean to have an "open" third eye? How do you know that your third eye isn't already open? How do you know that it is closed. What are your expectations? My advice is to just enjoy the feeling, keep practicing WILDs, and don't have any expectations. If your "third eye" is supposed to open, it will. If it isn't, it won't. If you don't like the sensations then complete the circuit. Bring the energy down the front of your face with your tongue on the roof of your mouth, teeth slightly touching, no tension in your jaw, down your chest to your belly button chakra to store it for later. Never try to "force" a chakra open. Never try to force a flower to bloom. Never rip the skin off a snake...blah blah blah. But above all just stay with the sensations and give up expectations and preconceptions that reading has put in your mind. It could just be anxiety. And people imagine that their kundalini is rising all the time. They dream that their kundalini is rising because they have heard or read about it and they imagine it so. Don't do that. Just keep WILDing!

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## ChaybaChayba

> ChaybaChayba, I'm not so sure it's a good idea to recommend sleep deprivation to anyone...it's an awful thing and even though I don't understand half this thread (chakra?  third eye?  I've never heard this stuff before) I can tell you that it's a good idea to get 8-10 hours of sleep each night.  Depriving yourself of sleep probably isn't healthy and it's certainly not comfortable.



Good point, this does seem very counter-intuitive. But Nikola Tesla slept only 2 hours a night, he was the master of lucid dreaming, and he grew to be 87 years old, so his sleeping habits were more healthy than most people. He was the guy who brought electricity to our planet. And he did discovered all his inventions in his lucid dreaming. He claimed too much sleep, or bad sleeping habits, is exactly what is making us unable to lucid dream in the first place. 
My Inventions: The Autobiography of Nikola Tesla

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## GMoney

That's very interesting - thanks for the informed response.  I'll have to look into that a bit more.  It's incredible that someone could go along for 87 years sleeping only 2 hours each night!   ::o:

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## Dannon Oneironaut

You failed to mention that Nikola Tesla was from Venus, and as everyone knows, Venusians only sleep 2 hours a day, are master lucid dreamers, live to be about 90, and understand pigeon-talk. 
But seriously, Nikola didn't exactly lucid dream as such. Yes, i am sure he had lucid dreams, but he had visions while he was awake and he couldn't tell the difference between his visions and normal waking life. We all should love Nikola Tesla, but we shouldn't try to be like him. I mean, he was in love with a pigeon. He also had obsessive/compulsive disorder. He was crazy, yet a genius. He thought that he was from Venus, and maybe he was.

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## ChaybaChayba

He was not in love with a pidgoen LOL. This was his method of entering lucid dreaming, he used it as a WILD induction. And then you go and say he was in love with a pidgeon to make him look like a fool. What are you trying to achieve?

Lol.. Nikola Tesla is crazy.. take a look at the world around you and tell me people in general are not crazy.  For example someone thanking your post for calling Nikola Tesla crazy, is pretty crazy. Why would they thank you for that? Who with the right mind would enjoy the fact that someone else is crazy?  :Eek: 


What you just did, is similar to calling the guy who invented the computer crazy, and then you continue using a computer. What the fuck dude? Doesn't this make you even more crazy? This is obviously nothing but slander.

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## GMoney

I thanked him because he shed more light on the situation.  He introduced new information that makes one question the sanity of Tesla's actions, thereby making him less-than-an-ideal-role-model.  Is it crazy to thank someone for contributing new and relevant information into a discussion?  I think not.

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## ChaybaChayba

You didn't thank me or anyone else for that matter. I provided a link and dannon was just talking out of his ass. So yes, you did thank him because he was putting Tesla down. 

"Oh thank you dannon for pointing out that Tesla is crazy and less-than-ideal-role-model, you made my day!" What.. the.. fuck?

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## GMoney

Are you happy now?

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## ChaybaChayba

The fact still remains, you thanked him because he was spreading bullshit and slander. Something is definately wrong with that attitude.

But ok, since you gave me a thanks, I can forgive you  ::D:

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## youngjedi

> You failed to mention that Nikola Tesla was from Venus, and as everyone knows, Venusians only sleep 2 hours a day, are master lucid dreamers, live to be about 90, and understand pigeon-talk. 
> But seriously, Nikola didn't exactly lucid dream as such. Yes, i am sure he had lucid dreams, but he had visions while he was awake and he couldn't tell the difference between his visions and normal waking life. We all should love Nikola Tesla, but we shouldn't try to be like him. I mean, he was in love with a pigeon. He also had obsessive/compulsive disorder. He was crazy, yet a genius. He thought that he was from Venus, and maybe he was.



He was not crazy sir!  He entered the metaphysical world and could not comprehend what he was seeing. When your pineal gland or "third eye" opens, it releases DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) and you enter into this realm. Isnt it kind or strange that thousands of people claim to have been abducted by "aliens" or have "alien" "zombie" "Vampire" "werewolf" "elves"  dreams? I personally believe these to be fallen angels pretending to be different creatures to each different person. Not trying to convert anybody here as i do not believe in religion which was created by man to confuse us from the truth, however i do believe in good and evil, God and the Devil. You can also see "Good beings" such as your "guardian angel", thats why it is crucial when looking for a dream guide as they call it on here. Go by gut feeling and intuition, you can feel ther intentions and energy vibrations in this mindstate as well so do not be fooled! I believe once you open this gland that you reach "complete conciousness" and can see what is really going on. You only use %10 of your brain because you were programmed to, when you REALLY start "thinking", such as Plato, Aristotle, even Einstein,  your reality and perception will slowly start to change. They all were once called crazy or insane at one point yet now they are called geniouses ,even gods to some.  Kids are born with this open thats why people often catch them talking to the air or why they say "theres a monster in my closet or under my bed" and we simply say its your "imagination" and ususally by the age of 10 they lose this ability as they are brainwashed just like the rest of us.  There has to be a reason why The Bible and The Quran state that God says "Learn from the children" and why they both are full of information and stories about dreams and their importance. Only about %5 of the world population has reached this mindstate, %3 of which are probably in a insane asylum for not being able to understand or cope with "reality".  Do ALOT of research before messing around with lucid dreaming, out of body experiences, meditation, even Phycadelic drugs (which i do not recommed) but which open this gland as well. 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

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## IAmCoder



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## IAmCoder

It's all good - I believe I cleared everything up.

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## whiterain

how has this thread got so long with only one technique being offered, and a  pretty extreme one at that? i can understand all the peoples warnings, however they are not very helpful and i dont see how you can judge whether someone is ready or not. extreme methods like sleep deprivation and psychadelics have their place, but are far more risky than the slower awareness/meditation based methods.

how is someone supposed to know if they are grounded enough until they have given it a go? what is the worst that can happen? a really scary bit of imagery i suppose? i know it can be damaging but surely if you are only using gentle methods then you will be able to snap out of it surely?

personally i think there are long term methods to allow the pineal to open up naturally, and short term methods to activate it at specific times when required. i think all awareness practice and all focus on dreams will make it more active long term. as for the shorter term methods you should probably look into the old yogas and things which have many techniques for this.

what i like to do these days is meditations that start with grounding exercises and eventually move up to techniques for higher awareness and dreaming. in terms of the third eye for me its really just about focussing your awareness on the area while doing some other exercises and meditations to raise your energy throughout the body. a good simple one is imagining a ball bouncing between the centre of your head and just outside your forehead.

all these warnings could also being applied to lucid dreaming in general but i cant help but feel some people may be projecting their fears on others perhaps. its not like we are trying to use sledgehammers to crack eggs, just simple methods that will gradually raise awareness and allow the minds eye to be more active.

however someone who has had so many wilds so soon sounds like a natural to me, and you probably have a very active minds eye already. not only that but you must have a pretty good mastery of fear to be able to do something so out of the ordinary, and fear is the main thing you really need to get a hold on to be able to do these things without damaging your mental state. the way i see it, having a wild and opening the third eye are pretty similar. if you can naturally wild and have enough control to not just immediately mess around then you can probably find out far more about the pineal and what will work for you from a lucid dream than we will be able to tell you

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## youngjedi

> how has this thread got so long with only one technique being offered, and a  pretty extreme one at that? i can understand all the peoples warnings, however they are not very helpful and i dont see how you can judge whether someone is ready or not. extreme methods like sleep deprivation and psychadelics have their place, but are far more risky than the slower awareness/meditation based methods. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is someone supposed to know if they are grounded enough until they have given it a go? what is the worst that can happen? a really scary bit of imagery i suppose? i know it can be damaging but surely if you are only using gentle methods then you will be able to snap out of it surely?
> 
> personally i think there are long term methods to allow the pineal to open up naturally, and short term methods to activate it at specific times when required. i think all awareness practice and all focus on dreams will make it more active long term. as for the shorter term methods you should probably look into the old yogas and things which have many techniques for this.
> 
> ...



Very good point sir!  However i am not trying to judge anybody as far as being ready or not, im also not trying to project fear onto others. I am simply suggesting that you do your own research in science and religion before messing with the human mind!  Let me ask you this, what is fear? what is love? who taught us these emotions? how they are caused and how we should respond to them?
It is something you are born with and for a REASON!!!

Aristotle's meaning of fear is probably the best in my opinion!

 "Fear is pain arising from the anticipation of evil." Aristotle

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## IAmCoder

I have a another one: _f_alse _e_vidence _a_ppearing _r_eal. Also fits better into this thread.  ::roll::

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## youngjedi

> I have a another one: _f_alse _e_vidence _a_ppearing _r_eal. Also fits better into this thread.



Or better yet! "Real evidence appearing false"

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## whiterain

> Very good point sir!  *However i am not trying to judge anybody as far as being ready or not, im also not trying to project fear onto others*. I am simply suggesting that you do your own research in science and religion before messing with the human mind!  Let me ask you this, what is fear? what is love? who taught us these emotions? how they are caused and how we should respond to them?
> It is something you are born with and for a REASON!!!
> 
> Aristotle's meaning of fear is probably the best in my opinion!
> 
>  "Fear is pain arising from the anticipation of evil." Aristotle



sorry if i wasnt clear, i thought other people were doing that to you. doesnt matter anyway. it just seemed the thread has gone along way without anyone offering any kind of practical advice on pineal opening. i can have a look for some old pdf files and links for you. give us a minute

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## Frozenlime

I can only speak from experience, I opened mine while high. For long I had been experience "tingling sensations" between mye eyebrows, just by placing focus there. So I started to meditate, and started feeling a flow. Sometimes I would meditate, and just have a "delightful" pulse filling me with energy. 

When I did have it fully open, it lead to headaches which made it hard to sleep in the beginning.

There was no "scary imagery". The only thing I fiddled with was intuition, and watching things get morhped when I focussed with the area where the third eye is, which wasn't scary at all. I never tried to meditate on it properly, because I have problems meditating because of a back problem.

What happened was, as I see it, when I'm high I'm able to regulate and amplify the FLOW of energy itself. By "pulling and expanding" the focus, it seems like the flow became much stronger than what I was able to handle, and it straight out HURT, probably because I have some blockages. It included heavy pressure, head (crown/third eye) feeling heavy and intense flashing from the area that pulses (dunno if this has anything to do with what's called epileptic seizures).

No, I was not "able to snap out of it" or close the chakra in the state I was in, though I guess that's easy when you're not high. The more I resisted, the worse the "flashing" got, the more "panicky" I got. Last time I tried  "expanding" the flow, it almost lead into a panic attack.

I have to say that I know I don't really have a very open root chakra, and have compensated by stimulating the upper ones. If you do have open chakras, there would probably not be that kind of pressure, because you send the energy straight down. If you end up being panicky, your root closes even more down, and you can feel overwhelmed by the experience.

I've opened before and had it open, though not using it actively, but I started to think more and feel less in the same period, and got more paranoid and a LOT more sensitive to (others) emotions. Coincidence? Perhaps, but I think not.

That being said, I still want to have it open and use it sometime, but clearing out blockages and getting properly grounded is way more prioritized.

Go ahead and do want you want if you can handle it, life's an illusion after all.

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## IAmCoder

Yes, that reminds me - there used to be some interesting PDFs called the suneye method. I am sure google knows where they are...

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## whiterain

thanks frozenlime (mmmmmm) great response. so was that just high on a smoke? its things that you mention like the pains and i get dizzy sensations, that make me think that there are certain factors in place which will naturally stop you going too far before you are ready. thats why i dont think there is too much harm can be done from such practices unless you try to force it. i think ive been more grounded lately but its hard to tell. the questions in my original post were not rhetorical, i really am curious to know what people think can happen, positive and negative. aswell as the higher meditations, are there any threads round here with good grounding tips?

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## whiterain

ive not read it all myself, but apparently this file Awakening-The-Third-Eye.pdf by samuel sagan has some great info

its available all over the net if you do a search

the guide here also looks pretty helpful

http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles...-rmueller1.htm

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## GMoney

> Or better yet! "Real evidence appearing false"



reaf?

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## ChaybaChayba

One method that will make your third eye open really fast, is to keep attention on your breath 24/7. There are many ways to go about doing this, but the easiest way is to count your breaths, so you notice when you lose attention the moment you lose count. It's not easy to talk to people and count your breahts at the same time, but is possible nonetheless. This advantage of this method is that you can do it anytime, anywhere.

Another method is tantric sex. Instead of cumming you redirect the sexual tension to your third eye. There is an energy channel running from your genitals to your third eye, and you can use this to redirect the energy, it runs along your chest. Not only will your third eye open, but it will also prevent you from cumming and you will have full body or mental orgasms instead. Basically it comes down to redirecting the muscle contraction. I do practise this while wanking as I don't have a girlfriend. This method works pretty good and is by far the most fun to do as the fun increases the better you get at it.

Another method is extreme sexual tension. Don't touch or have sex, just pure teasing. Extreme excitement activates the third eye. Even extreme fear, so watching thrillers is also helping.

Yet another way is alot of public attention. Say working in a restaurant, will also open your third eye as everyone their attention is on you. This also helps to active the third eye. Staring and being stared at. Embarassing social situations will also give your third eye a jolt and blast it open. When you got nervous, it is indeed the nervous system which is controlled by the third eye, which is being activated. For example when you are holding a speech in front of the class.

Another method of opening the third eye is staring into the sun. Eventho this method is very effective, it is taboo as people believe this will damage your eyes. So kids, do not try this one at home unless if you do not care if your eyes will fall out.






The third eye, is an electromagnetic receiver and sender, as evidenced in animals like cows and pigeons.
Cows Really Do Have a Magnetic Sixth Sense | Wired Science | Wired.com
ScienceDirect - Brain Research Bulletin : Electrophysiological evidence for central nervous connections of the pigeon's pineal gland

As the third eye is an electromagnetic receiver and sender, it can not only be used to manipulate and sense your own field, but also the field of others. What spirituality perceives to be the aura, might be a finer form of what science calls the electromagnetic field surrounding the body.
Electromagnetic theories of consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




What I'm trying to say here is that if you understand the purpose of the third eye, you can use it in real life, and activate it that way, without meditation. Cows and pigeons and most likely many other animals have it naturally activated and are using it, so why can't we? If your arm muscles are numb, how do you reactivate them? Simply by using them again. Same thing with the third eye. This is not magic hocus spocus like spirituality likes to claim, this is a natural mechanism of the mind, this is future science. Using spiritual terms is only confusing people. It makes people think this is magic, while the truth is, it is our natural ability. You are already using your third eye, find out how, and then go from there, invent your own methods adjusted to your personal life and habits.

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## Singularity125

Hmm, interesting stuff ChaybaChayba. Though that tantric sex thing is... weird. xD But yeah, you have a point. Sometimes the simplest things are the best. I ended up reading some of the pdf whiterain mentioned last night, and it was very interesting. That author also makes connections between sexuality and the third eye. Anyways... I did one of the exercises right before bed and I did feel a couple of sensations, but it was a better relaxation technique than anything else. Not that that's a bad thing! I always seem to gloss over relaxation techniques, but every time I do one I think, "This is nice, I should do this more often."  :tongue2:  I really think I will though, every night before bed. I seem to sleep better if I relax first. I'll get in the habit of doing that before I go too much farther, since it really seems like I try too hard sometimes.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

You guys are talking about opening a pineal gland. What the hell are you talking about? Open a gland? You are confusing a gland with a chakra. Do you know what it means to open a chakra? What are you trying to achieve? What do you expect to happen to you when you "open" your pineal gland? Are you planning on having some kind of experience?
What I said about Nikola Tesla is true. you think that I am judging him because he was crazy. But I am not. He was a genius, but he was not enlightened. That is my point. He was inventing weapons of mass destruction. That is one reason why he his inventions were confiscated. A genius he was, but he was unstable. And that can be dangerous, especially for paranoid governments bent on world domination. He wasn't loyal to any one country so he was taken down. Einstein was loyal to the U.S.A and he became a hero. I don't blame Tesla for that, though. But making weapons of mass destruction I don't like. But he had great ideas and the world would have been a better place if he was allowed to make free wireless electricity. But look at HARP technology, that was all what Tesla was also working on, and that stuff is no good. All those birds that fell out of the sky recently and all those fish that turned up dead, all that is HARP experiments using Tesla's inventions. 
He was crazy. I am sorry of he is your hero and you think I am slandering him, but he is not perfect. He was not enlightened. And you should just let your pineal gland be the way it is instead of trying to be something that you are not that you don't understand. If you are having cool experiences from practicing WILD and you like it, then keep up with it. But drop all the confused "borrowed" information that you have read and just work with your own experiences rather than trying to be like Tesla. Be you and grow from who you are.

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## youngjedi

> You guys are talking about opening a pineal gland. What the hell are you talking about? Open a gland? You are confusing a gland with a chakra. Do you know what it means to open a chakra? What are you trying to achieve? What do you expect to happen to you when you "open" your pineal gland? Are you planning on having some kind of experience?
> What I said about Nikola Tesla is true. you think that I am judging him because he was crazy. But I am not. He was a genius, but he was not enlightened. That is my point. He was inventing weapons of mass destruction. That is one reason why he his inventions were confiscated. A genius he was, but he was unstable. And that can be dangerous, especially for paranoid governments bent on world domination. He wasn't loyal to any one country so he was taken down. Einstein was loyal to the U.S.A and he became a hero. I don't blame Tesla for that, though. But making weapons of mass destruction I don't like. But he had great ideas and the world would have been a better place if he was allowed to make free wireless electricity. But look at HARP technology, that was all what Tesla was also working on, and that stuff is no good. All those birds that fell out of the sky recently and all those fish that turned up dead, all that is HARP experiments using Tesla's inventions. 
> He was crazy. I am sorry of he is your hero and you think I am slandering him, but he is not perfect. He was not enlightened. And you should just let your pineal gland be the way it is instead of trying to be something that you are not that you don't understand. If you are having cool experiences from practicing WILD and you like it, then keep up with it. But drop all the confused "borrowed" information that you have read and just work with your own experiences rather than trying to be like Tesla. Be you and grow from who you are.



Im pretty sure that no one here wants to end up like Tesla! However that doesnt mean that people do not want to reach "supreme consciousness". What you wish to do with it once you reach that mind state is up to you! You can use it for good or evil, you can take the Einstein route or you can take the Hitler route. There is nothing that is stopping you from being as smart as Thomas Edison, Isaac Newton or Einstein, or as creative as Salvador Dali or Jimi Hendrix but your own personal intent to expand your mental knowledge! If you wish to keep using 10% of your brain and working a 9 to 5 job by all means, continue!

Let love and peace overcome the greed and love for power!

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## nina

> You guys are talking about opening a pineal gland. What the hell are you talking about? Open a gland? You are confusing a gland with a chakra. Do you know what it means to open a chakra? What are you trying to achieve? What do you expect to happen to you when you "open" your pineal gland? Are you planning on having some kind of experience?



lol Dannon...when I first saw this thread I remember thinking..."opening it with what? ...a scalpel?" Let's keep the pinealectomies for the doctors to perform.  ::chuckle::  There is so much misinformation in this thread it's frightening...which is why I merely suggested that the OP get a book and read it. Gain some real knowledge, you know? Stop listening to the bull people spew on the internet. Most people think they are right about a lot of things...but sadly they are often very mistaken. I've made this mistake plenty of times, which is why I am very careful to check my sources anytime I am going to share information. I consider it an obligation to attempt to find the most truthful information on any given subject, however most people on the internet seem to have disparagingly low standards of acquired information.

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## whiterain

> lol Dannon...when I first saw this thread I remember thinking..."opening it with what? ...a scalpel?" Let's keep the pinealectomies for the doctors to perform.  There is so much misinformation in this thread it's frightening...which is why I merely suggested that the OP get a book and read it. Gain some real knowledge, you know? Stop listening to the bull people spew on the internet. Most people think they are right about a lot of things...but sadly they are often very mistaken. I've made this mistake plenty of times, which is why I am very careful to check my sources anytime I am going to share information. I consider it an obligation to attempt to find the most truthful information on any given subject, however most people on the internet seem to have disparagingly low standards of acquired information.



why not provide some good information of your own then rather than just all the ridicule? the guy is only asking for advice on how to better activate your visualisation and perceptual abilities. ok alot of the terminology and ideas may sound silly to those of you who seem know all about this stuff, but when you look for ideas on how to improve visualisation you find people everywhere telling you that pineal gland/third eye activation is the way to do it. if the misinformation is so bad why not at least correct it according to how you see it?

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## youngjedi

> why not provide some good information of your own then rather than just all the ridicule? the guy is only asking for advice on how to better activate your visualisation and perceptual abilities. ok alot of the terminology and ideas may sound silly to those of you who seem know all about this stuff, but when you look for ideas on how to improve visualisation you find people everywhere telling you that pineal gland/third eye activation is the way to do it. if the misinformation is so bad why not at least correct it according to how you see it?



I couldnt of said it better myself, Thanks!  Apparently to get the information i need i would have to move to a shrine in Peru haha! I thought about the question i had asked and realized i asked it on the wrong site cuz if the people here understood or experienced what i am talking about they would no longer be in on a website that portrays dreams as just being part of ones "imagination" and just something to have fun with.  Its kinda sad really, I personally dont plan on being here much longer myself. Just waiting for my "breakthrough".

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## nina

Ok, first let me apologize if you guys felt that I was ridiculing you. I suppose this wasn't the proper place for my little internet misinformation tirade that has been building up for awhile.  :tongue2: 

whiterain to answer your question as to why I haven't bothered to correct the bad information...it is only because, there is a lot of it...and it would take a lot of time and effort for me to address all the issues properly. But more specifically, I did not want to get drawn into an argument with a certain member who has replied in this thread, because I have come to realize that it ends up being a huge waste of everyone's time.

But even if I spent hours collecting information and putting together a well thought out and informative thread, would any of you even listen to me? Would it be worth my effort? I guess that's the biggest concern for me. It seems like some of you are content believing what you want to believe, or what you hear from others, regardless of whether or not it is accurate information.

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## whiterain

> Ok, first let me apologize if you guys felt that I was ridiculing you.* I suppose this wasn't the proper place for my little internet misinformation tirade* that has been building up for awhile. 
> 
> whiterain to answer your question as to why I haven't bothered to correct the bad information...it is only because, there is a lot of it...and it would take a lot of time and effort for me to address all the issues properly. But more specifically, I did not want to get drawn into an argument with a certain member who has replied in this thread, because I have come to realize that it ends up being a huge waste of everyone's time.
> 
> But even if I spent hours collecting information and putting together a well thought out and informative thread, would any of you even listen to me? Would it be worth my effort? I guess that's the biggest concern for me. It seems like some of you are content believing what you want to believe, or what you hear from others, regardless of whether or not it is accurate information.



haha i know the feeling ive been struggling alot with that myself lately. there are only so many deep breaths you can take before it has to come out. i often write something out and then realise im being harsh and delete it. i appreciate your response and i know what you mean when you say it is a massive subject that would take a long time to cover, just jedi seemed like a switched on chap who was after a little advice. if you ever did decide to write it up let me know id love to have a read  :smiley:  have a good night/day

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## whiterain

> I couldnt of said it better myself, Thanks!  Apparently to get the information i need i would have to move to a shrine in Peru haha! I thought about the question i had asked and realized i asked it on the wrong site cuz if the people here understood or experienced what i am talking about they would no longer be in on a website that portrays dreams as just being part of ones "imagination" and just something to have fun with.  Its kinda sad really, I personally dont plan on being here much longer myself. Just waiting for my "breakthrough".



ahh stick around mate its one of the best places ive found. i dont think the majority of experienced people here write of dreams as simply imagination, but even if they do thats only because that is the sum of their experience so far. you may want to try some of the beyond dreaming and astral/meditation forums elsewhere as they would be more appropriate for such questions.

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## youngjedi

> ahh stick around mate its one of the best places ive found. i dont think the majority of experienced people here write of dreams as simply imagination, but even if they do thats only because that is the sum of their experience so far. you may want to try some of the beyond dreaming and astral/meditation forums elsewhere as they would be more appropriate for such questions.



Ya this site really does have alot of information and has helped me out more than anything else iv read up on. I have looked into those forums but its still not exactly what im looking for. I just think its ignorant not to have a religious forum or spiritual forum when your focusing on the subject of dreams.

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## GMoney

> I just think its ignorant not to have a religious forum or spiritual forum



Religion/Spirituality

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## Dannon Oneironaut

If you want to activate your third eye, start with a balanced approach and strive to activate ALL your chakras. Be a spectrum like a rainbow. We are a rainbow bridge between heaven and earth. Lucid dreaming, meditation, and breathwork are the techniques I find to be the best. And yoga in order to stay relaxed and have energy flow through the body smoothly. I said before in this thread that the pineal gland relates to the crown chakra, not the third eye. Hence the crazy out of body universal consciousness that may be attributed to the DMT in the pineal gland. The pituitary relates to the third eye. But they are very close together in the brain also near the hypothalamus, hence I understand the confusion. There is a meditation done with breathing that activates both. The feeling of tingling in the forehead is not what one is after. This is attention focused on the sinuses, which is not the pineal or pituitary gland. I will try to find a picture, then explain the meditation. Keep in mind that it is advanced and one needs to keep balance with all the other chakras. That is why Aquanina says it is a vast subject. 



The meditation:

Find where your cheek bones meet the front of your ears and imagine a horizontal line going through your head between them. Now vizualize a line going from between your eyebrows and intersecting them. That point of intersection in the CENTER of your head is where you focus.This spot is a hollow space about the size of a walnut. Breath in. Now breath out VERY slowly (imagine that if there were a candle flame under your nose it wouldn't flicker, that is how slow you breathe out). Imagine you are breathing out through this space.

If you are imagining too far forward in the head, you will feel sensations in your sinuses. This is NOT what you are going for. If you imagine too far back you will feel sensations in the back of your head. Too far up and you feel sensations on the top of your head. The feeling you are looking for is a melting sensation in the center of your head that then flows through your whole body and brings deep relaxation. Do this for a half hour minimum. Throughout the day breathe normally as you go about your day-to-day affairs but keep your attention in this spot as much as you are able. 

The most important chakra if you are going to focus on one exclusively though is your heart chakra. 
Good luck and don't worry about Tesla or God consciousness. You don't want to be greedy for experiences because that causes tension and is counterproductive of your aims. Enjoy and trust the process. A flower blooms when it is ready. You just need to water the plant and fertilize it and it blooms in its season. If you rip the flower open before its season it dies. Yogis spend many lives patiently working towards God consciousness. Maybe this is the lifetime you will achieve it, maybe not. If there was some trick for teenagers to achieve it from information on the internet we would all be Gods. We all are, but you know what I mean I hope. 

I also hope you realize that I am not ridiculing you in order to put you down or discourage you. I am just trying to show you that there is so much misinformation and that you have to be patient and not expect some crazy experience that will transform you into a god. Enlightenment is very down to Earth experience and it is important to work on seeing beyond your ego, not to fly to other realms and see hallucinations and fractal angelic waking visions. This is what lucid dreaming is for. And psychedelic drugs, namely LSD, DMT, and mushrooms. I prefer psilocyben mushrooms to find the teacher within. But of course I am not advocating illegal activity.

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## youngjedi

> Religion/Spirituality



Thanks sir, i was looking for that!   If it is possible to move this thread to that category I would greatly appreciate it.

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## whiterain

exceptional post dannon cheers. my psilo cubensis should be grown in about a couple of weeks and they're my favourite too  :wink2:

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## mazillion

whoa there is a name for it? cool. Me and my sister think in image. Sort of like the way you do when you day dream. Idk its hard to explain. I know plenty of people who think in words. And i know tons bilinguals who think in 2 different languages (depending on the time and place and situation). Lol i kind of survey my friends.

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## GMoney

> whoa there is a name for it? cool. Me and my sister think in image. Sort of like the way you do when you day dream. Idk its hard to explain. I know plenty of people who think in words. And i know tons bilinguals who think in 2 different languages (depending on the time and place and situation). Lol i kind of survey my friends.



I typically think of words.  When I hear people say stuff, I don't envision what it represents, but rather what the word looks like.  For instance, when someone says "dog," I don't see the image of a dog - I see the letters D, O, and G and understand those.

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## nina

> my psilo cubensis should be grown in about a couple of weeks and they're my favourite too



Awesome. I've got a bunch of DMT on the way...very excited.

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## mazillion

> I typically think of words.  When I hear people say stuff, I don't envision what it represents, but rather what the word looks like.  For instance, when someone says "dog," I don't see the image of a dog - I see the letters D, O, and G and understand those.



yeah whoa thats crazy i don't think like that at all. I do imagine what it looks like and represents... thinkin in words seems like a hassle for me. though i think in words when reading and writing. but everybody does. not sure if that counts.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

Things to be aware of when doing this meditation: make sure that you are not tightening your throat or your jaw in order to regulate the exhaling. You want to relax, not be tense. Notice any tension in your body, and with dual awareness of also your hollow space at the center of your head, also relax any tension in your body... relax.

First thing in the morning, after taking a shower, turn the water on cold and let it fall all over you, and WATCH THAT YOU DON'T CATCH YOUR BREATHE. Keep your breathing smooth. The cold will energize you, much like jogging or other exercise gives you more energy, or increases the capacity of energy you can hold. This is an automatic function of your body that you can gain control over with your intention. You can control your breath. Do the circular breathing after you get out of the shower. Lie down and do the circular breathing, which is deep breathing and relaxation with both the inhale and the exhale connected with no gaps. Focus on the exhaling and really relax, like you are melting. Let your body breathe out without forcing it. This awakens the kundalini and it is quite sexual. Do this for an hour. You might feel the tendons in your hands tightening up, and your jaw, and you might twist involuntarily into a fetus shape. This is normal. Try to relax through it, just breathing. Don't get scared. Go through with the experience. You will not be able to open your hands. It is psychedelic. It is a spiritual experience, and healing, cleaning out all kinds of trauma and karma from your spinal chord. 


But move the energy throughout your whole body, not just your brain. The brain tends to think about things and intellectualize things instead of feel them and experience them. Feel the body electric! Once your whole body is filled with energy, your whole glandular system will be at optimum peak level, including your pineal and pituitary. You may imagine is as a living chemical soup, but try to see it as electricity and rainbow light in a transparent crystal body. 

But this is all for nothing if your mind is in beta state. You want to at least get your mind into alpha state. But theta good and Delta is best. But you don't have to DO it, you have to ALLOW it to happen. It is grace. You just have to be passive and receptive, patient, and grateful. 


This has many names, research it: Mahayoga, Babaji's Kriya Yoga, Rebirthing, Breath of Life, Latihan, Holotropic Breathwork etc. etc. Yogis have been doing it for at least 5,000 years. 

When you get good at that and want to go deeper...

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## nina

Are you sure about Delta? Isn't that sleep state? I always read that alpha and theta were the best for such things.

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## youngjedi

> Awesome. I've got a bunch of DMT on the way...very excited.



niceeee!

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## whiterain

> Awesome. I've got a bunch of DMT on the way...very excited.



ahh your going for the crowbar technique eh? load universe into cannon, aim at brain, fire  ::D:  have you tried it before?

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## somniumrex

> We all hear about things like chakras and third eyes and we read about it. This gets us confused. Then we imagine things. The pineal gland is actually the crown chakra, but so what? The third eye is the pituitary. Actually, these glands are the physical counterparts to the energetic chakras. However, what does it mean to have an "open" third eye? How do you know that your third eye isn't already open? How do you know that it is closed. What are your expectations? My advice is to just enjoy the feeling, keep practicing WILDs, and don't have any expectations. If your "third eye" is supposed to open, it will. If it isn't, it won't. If you don't like the sensations then complete the circuit. Bring the energy down the front of your face with your tongue on the roof of your mouth, teeth slightly touching, no tension in your jaw, down your chest to your belly button chakra to store it for later. Never try to "force" a chakra open. Never try to force a flower to bloom. Never rip the skin off a snake...blah blah blah. But above all just stay with the sensations and give up expectations and preconceptions that reading has put in your mind. It could just be anxiety. And people imagine that their kundalini is rising all the time. They dream that their kundalini is rising because they have heard or read about it and they imagine it so. Don't do that. Just keep WILDing!



listen to dannon. this guy always has the logical, zen like answers.

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## nina

> ahh your going for the crowbar technique eh? load universe into cannon, aim at brain, fire  have you tried it before?



Haha! 

Yes, I have. It wasn't as much of a slingshot into psychosis as some other things I've tried, but it is definitely the most "prepare to meet your maker, earthling" sort of substance I've yet to encounter. It all happened so fast though, it was hard to get a decent grip on anything that was happening. I'd really like to try ingestion, as I'm more used to the experiences that last 4+ hours as opposed to just a few minutes.

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## whiterain

> Haha! 
> 
> Yes, I have. It wasn't as much of a *slingshot into psychosis* as some other things I've tried, but it is definitely the most "prepare to meet your maker, earthling" sort of substance I've yet to encounter. It all happened so fast though, it was hard to get a decent grip on anything that was happening. I'd really like to try ingestion, as I'm more used to the experiences that last 4+ hours as opposed to just a few minutes.



ahh so youve tried a strong salvia extract then?  ::D:

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## nina

> ahh so youve tried a strong salvia extract then?



Nope...actually I'm not a fan of salvia at all. I've never had a pleasant experience with salvia.

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## whiterain

> Nope...actually I'm not a fan of salvia at all. I've never had a pleasant experience with salvia.



nah me neither it makes me forget what i have just done which isnt a good way to start

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## Dannon Oneironaut

> Are you sure about Delta? Isn't that sleep state? I always read that alpha and theta were the best for such things.



Yes, Delta is deep dreamless state of sleep. If you can be aware in Delta, you will find that your ego has disappeared and your mind has returned to its true nature as Rigpa, an ocean of calm abiding awareness with no object. Of course, we don't have the discipline or skill to remain conscious in this state, but it can be done. 

Some people lose awareness in alpha, most people fall asleep in theta. It is a question of intention and vigilance. I have heard that Buddhist monks allowed themselves to be tested in meditation and scientists have discovered an even deeper brainwave frequency beyond Delta that the monks can access. I forgot what it is called, some greek letter. So it can be done. 

Delta is very interesting. When we go into Delta, we are absorbed back into the source to be replenished. The growth hormones flood our body and cellular renewal takes place. 

Every night we become enlightened. Every night we merge with the clear light of sleep. Then we travel through the bardos of dreaming and we are reborn when we open our eyes in the morning. 

When in Delta, are you a boy or a girl? Are you young or are you old? When in deep dreamless sleep, are you conservative or liberal? Are you black, white, latino, asian, etc? We are none of these things. 

The pineal gland is already activated. It is fulfilling its function of regulating sleep and waking via seratonin and melatonin. It also converts seratonin into DMT. The pineal gland is what controls death and rebirth, sleep and waking. 

The pineal gland follows light schedules. In order to keep your pineal gland healthy and operating at optimum don't use artificial light at night. Use candles or oil lamps. Go to bed at a decent hour and wake up around sunrise. If you wake up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom, NEVER turn on the bathroom light in the dark. That confuses your pineal gland and it starts its daytime cycle. This is a major cause of the epidemic of mood disorders. Artificial lighting. 

Also, don't drink flouridated water or use flouride toothpaste. Flouride calcifies bones and teeth, making them harder but brittler. It also calcifies your pineal gland. We don't want that, do we?

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## Dannon Oneironaut

> Awesome. I've got a bunch of DMT on the way...very excited.



You are my kind of girl!

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## saltyseedog

that DMT is going to change you aquanina, it will be awesome

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## Codename

> You claim it is not a skill you will acquire over night, so how do you explain the fact that childeren naturally have the ability to WILD and lucid dream?



Are you one of those children? Didnt think so.....

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## Dannon Oneironaut

> You claim it is not a skill you will acquire over night, so how do you explain the fact that childeren naturally have the ability to WILD and lucid dream?



Lucid dreaming is natural, but I doubt that most children do it often. I have had spontaneous lucid dreams as a child, but not regularly. Children are more open to the borderlines and fringes of reality and waking/dreaming. Monsters under the bed seem very real to children. That is because they have not been conditioned yet to not believe these things. Also, children are younger, and they have just recently entered the world of the living and have just come from the other side. This has nothing to do with chakra development. If anything, their chakras are less developed. A child's brain likewise is still developing.  When a baby is born, it has no filters. It is spending the first year of its life just developing the root chakra and then its second chakra. When a child reaches seven it works on developing its solar plexus chakra. The chakras develop as the person matures. The third eye naturally develops when a person is old and the crown chakra opens when the person dies and goes through it. But the problem is that people are messed up nowadays. People don't mature but remain immature. People don't die out there crown chakra usually nowadays.

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## juroara

> The pineal gland is already activated. It is fulfilling its function of regulating sleep and waking via seratonin and melatonin. It also converts seratonin into DMT. The pineal gland is what controls death and rebirth, sleep and waking. 
> 
> The pineal gland follows light schedules. In order to keep your pineal gland healthy and operating at optimum don't use artificial light at night. Use candles or oil lamps. Go to bed at a decent hour and wake up around sunrise. If you wake up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom, NEVER turn on the bathroom light in the dark. That confuses your pineal gland and it starts its daytime cycle. This is a major cause of the epidemic of mood disorders. Artificial lighting. 
> 
> Also, don't drink flouridated water or use flouride toothpaste. Flouride calcifies bones and teeth, making them harder but brittler. It also calcifies your pineal gland. We don't want that, do we?



 ::shock::  *takes down notes*

Where do you get your information from, or do you have too many sources to list? Sometimes just being in my bedroom I feel completely crazy. If I step outside for even a few minutes I feel stable happy and sane again. (sunlight fresh air birds!)

I want to learn more about all the environmental factors that actually make me feel less than happy. I could just be crazy (I am) but the corner of my wall_ really_ makes me uneasy.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

Devils hide in the corners. That is why the Indians pray in tepees.
I have only one source.

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## GMoney

I don't understand a word you guys are saying; it sounds as if you're speaking a different language!   :smiley: 

Is there a tutorial or a beginner's guide to this stuff?  I haven't heard half the terms mentioned in this thread before and was wondering if there was a place I could go to get a simple introduction to it.  I can't really say whether or not I believe in it because I haven't been exposed to the concepts before, but I'm willing to be open about and learn more about it.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

> Haha! 
> 
> Yes, I have. It wasn't as much of a slingshot into psychosis as some other things I've tried, but it is definitely the most "prepare to meet your maker, earthling" sort of substance I've yet to encounter. It all happened so fast though, it was hard to get a decent grip on anything that was happening. I'd really like to try ingestion, as I'm more used to the experiences that last 4+ hours as opposed to just a few minutes.



You should hook up witht the Sante Daime Church and try some ayahuasca! That lasts about 8 hours with 3-4 hours being very intense. And they sing beautiful songs in Portuguese. But they make you sit in those awful metal folding chairs.

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## nina

> You should hook up witht the Sante Daime Church and try some ayahuasca! That lasts about 8 hours with 3-4 hours being very intense. And they sing beautiful songs in Portuguese. But they make you sit in those awful metal folding chairs.



lol...do you speak from experience?

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## Dannon Oneironaut

yes, indeed. It is crazy when you have giant snakes crawling through your consciousness and the walls are holographic universes and the songs are sung by angels and your body is pulsating vibrating energy and the whole time you are trying to stay sitting in that metal folding chair!

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## nina

> yes, indeed. It is crazy when you have giant snakes crawling through your consciousness and the walls are holographic universes and the songs are sung by angels and your body is pulsating vibrating energy and the whole time you are trying to stay sitting in that metal folding chair!



Sounds crazy. Why do they make people sit in chairs like that? I can't imagine something like DMT without a fluffy bed to dissolve into.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

I don't know. Maybe because it is a church and that is what you do. That is why I no longer go to the Sante Daime or even the native american peyote church anymore. They are just as bad. You eat peyote at sunset and have to sit in one position on the ground in a tepee until noon the next day, not sleeping or eating or drinking. You sit around a fire in the summer long after the effects wear off and the sun is beating down on the tepee, and you can't drink water or lay down. Then at noon they pass around a plate of raw deer meat mixed with corn and you have to eat a bite of that. It is their tradition, but I don't see the point of it for me. They explain that the circle is a magic circle that is protecting you from demons and stuff, and the songs are ancient magical songs that are also protective, or spontaneously created songs revealed in revelation. In the Sante daime church, the songs are songs that a Christian missionary a long time ago found through revelation while on ayahuasca, but you can't sing your own songs.

That is why I don't like organized religion. Even if it is based on psychedelics.

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## ChaybaChayba

> The pineal gland is already activated. It is fulfilling its function of regulating sleep and waking via seratonin and melatonin. It also converts seratonin into DMT. The pineal gland is what controls death and rebirth, sleep and waking.



So how exactly does the pineal gland control death and rebirth?

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## nina

> I don't know. Maybe because it is a church and that is what you do. That is why I no longer go to the Sante Daime or even the native american peyote church anymore. They are just as bad. You eat peyote at sunset and have to sit in one position on the ground in a tepee until noon the next day, not sleeping or eating or drinking. You sit around a fire in the summer long after the effects wear off and the sun is beating down on the tepee, and you can't drink water or lay down. Then at noon they pass around a plate of raw deer meat mixed with corn and you have to eat a bite of that. It is their tradition, but I don't see the point of it for me. They explain that the circle is a magic circle that is protecting you from demons and stuff, and the songs are ancient magical songs that are also protective, or spontaneously created songs revealed in revelation. In the Sante daime church, the songs are songs that a Christian missionary a long time ago found through revelation while on ayahuasca, but you can't sing your own songs.
> 
> That is why I don't like organized religion. Even if it is based on psychedelics.



That is all very interesting, thanks for sharing. I really had no idea that you had been a part of that church that I've always heard about, so I find it all very fascinating. But I couldn't agree more...there is way too much about organized religion that flat out doesn't make sense. When people stop questioning why they do the things that they do and merely operate on tradition and all logical reasoning goes out the door, I just can't be a part of such things.

Oh and regarding Delta...I don't know what I was thinking. I have actually been conscious many times in Delta, and was again last night. I actually find it to be rather unsettling, because it is such a slooow deep vibration and my brain feels heavy and almost depressed. Actually I guess Delta is the most easy brain wave to detect because it is the one furthest away from our normal waking frequency, so it feels so distinctly different. But I'm so used to enjoying such higher vibrational frequencies with the aid of certain substances that being conscious while in such a lower vibrational frequency like Delta almost registers as something negative or unpleasant. Do you know what I mean? Do you think that's just natural? Also the fact that I can always feel my teeth chattering away to the hum of the Delta frequency really drives me nuts. If I spend most of my nights doing this it's no wonder I wake with my jaw aching everyday.

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## ChaybaChayba

There might be another reason why you wake up with your jaw aching everyday..  ::D:

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## nina

> There might be another reason why you wake up with your jaw aching everyday..



Was that supposed to be some kind of sexual humor? The smiley is throwing me off.  ::hrm:: 

I need my wisdom teeth out...bad. I just keep putting it off and popping tylenol instead. Yes, I know I'm not the most responsible person. I'm pretty sure it's not normal to have teeth chattering like that every night, and damn it's a good thing I'm not normally conscious while it's occurring or I'd never get proper sleep.

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## ChaybaChayba

Haha sorry if I offended you but I couldn't help myself. As far as I know chattering teeth make the jaw muscles relax so I don't think that's the cause.. I think it might be your wisdom teeth like you pointed out, they also cause my jaws to ache.. so...

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## nina

Ok, new development...it seems that the teeth chattering can actually be used to detect my current brain state. Further exploration is necessary. When you guys set your jaw so that your teeth are just barely touching...can you feel the vibration? I'm not talking about your heart beat. There is a much faster sort of vibrating that can be detected. Perhaps when I'm asleep and in Delta it gets amplified and feels like chattering. Does anyone know of another explanation for this sort of teeth vibrating other than brainwaves? I'd really love to find out what this is all about.

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## ChaybaChayba

Yeah I know what you're talking about, I can make my entire body vibrate like this, it feels pretty much like sleep paralysis, but I can do it whenever. It makes me flexible without stretching. In my experience muscles are actually pretty much like strings on a guitar, they vibrate and you can control the vibration by regulating the muscle tension, which is how I make my jaws or other musles vibrate. First time I've heard someone else talk about this tho.

As the brain extends through the entire body, and as there is such a thing as cellular memory, you could as well see the entire body as the brain and talk about the brain as if it was the body. The brains vibrations, or the body's vibration would come down to the same thing. Making your body vibrate at a certain rate will bring you from one mental state to the other.
Electromagnetic theories of consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Dannon Oneironaut

> So how exactly does the pineal gland control death and rebirth?



We all hear too much about the pineal gland and DMT. But what is important while we are living is the seratonin and melatonin. This is regulated by the cycles of light and darkness. It is our internal clock. Yes, while we are dreaming there is a little DMT. While we are visualizing likewise there is a tiny bit of DMT. 

On the 49th day after conception, the embryo (or fetus? I get mixed up which one is which) becomes either male or female. Also the pineal gland becomes fully developed and DMT goes through the fetus's system. This is when I believe the soul enters the fetus. This also corresponds to the tibetan Book of the Dead's bardo teachings in which they say that it takes 49 days to become reincarnated. While Buddhism, like other religions, is against abortion because it is killing a living being and causing suffering and a causes bad karma, I believe that before the 49th day, it is still a part of the woman's body but after the 49th day it is its own living being. 

When a baby is born, during labor as the baby is coming through the birth canal, likewise there is a flood of DMT through the baby's system...AND the mothers (if it is a natural childbirth). Also, when you die, DMT is released in the brain (if it is a natural death). Dreams also. So the soul enters and leaves the body with the help of the pineal gland. 

It is very interesting how the pineal gland regulates sleep, awakening, death and rebirth. 


As for the teeth chattering, I don't know what you are talking about. I sometimes have a feeling like my jaw and teeth disappear, or go soft, or turn into energy, when I start to go out of body. Perhaps that is similar? I don't know. It is as if it is the first part of my body to dissolve. However it might be just a release of all the tension I carry in my jaw usually.

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## ChaybaChayba

That is a pretty interesting indeed, however, sounds more crazy to me than Tesla to be honest  :Shades wink: 
Anyway, I don't see how reincarnation goes together with a population increase/decrease. Won't we run out of souls and bodies? And what if we had a collective consciousness, how do you know, that you didn't tap into the collective mind, and that you are tapping into someone else their memories, and that you are not really reincarnated? Could as well be, that all our memories  are stored in a collective storage, and that reincarnation is an illusion based on this misconception.

So what kind of quality would one keep through the process of reincarnation?

What interests me the most tho, is how reincarnation and dreaming are related. If the pineal gland allows for the soul to seperate from the body, does this mean it is possible to decide to reincarnate before you actually died? Like you would fall asleep, dream, and then wakeup as a baby? Would this mean that it allows for your soul to already go to that world of dead people during a dream, before you die?

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## Chimpertainment

> So how exactly does the pineal gland control death and rebirth?



Id like to suggest some reading on this topic by someone more knowledgeable than myself. 

Book : Amazon.com: DMT: The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor&#39;s Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences (9780892819270): Rick Strassman MD: Books

I checked it out at a local library after researching the topic for some months. If you are at all interested in psychedelics or transpersonal phenomena this book would be very interesting. It is written from a strictly scientific point of view however, so there is almost zero speculation. Strassman has another book which contains many of his speculations regarding the research described in this book.

Amazon.com: Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies (9781594772245): Rick Strassman MD, Slawek Wojtowicz, Luis Eduardo Luna, Ede Frecska: Books

This book has multiple authors and goes much deeper into the psychedelic strata so to say. I have not read this one yet although it is on my wish list  :smiley: 


---Also, the heart begins to beat on the 49th day following conception. Strassman makes some comments on this in his DMT book though not lengthy. The heart, pineal, circulatory systems, and nervous systems all "go online" on that day. In conjunction with a release of DMT from the pineal, this event seems to have at least some incredible physiological significance. 
Whether there is reincarnation or not, Buddhist tradition teaching about this 49th day marker loooong before science came along and confirmed also seems to give weight to this theory.

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## nina

Can anyone provide any credible evidence that DMT is produced by the pineal gland?

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## IAmCoder

Dr. Strassman wrote in his book, "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" that scientific studies confirmed that DMT is found in the brain. He also speculated that it could be produced by the pineal gland since all of its precursors could be found there, but no studies have confirmed or denied his guess.

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## nina

*Addendum by Rick Strassman

"I did my best in the DMT book to differentiate between what is known, and what I was conjecturing about (based upon what is known), regarding certain aspects of DMT dynamics. However, it's amazing how ineffective my efforts seem to have been. So many people write me, or write elsewhere, about DMT, and the pineal, assuming that the things I conjecture about are true. When I was writing the book, I thought I was clear enough, and repeating myself would have gotten tedious.

"We don't know whether DMT is made in the pineal. I muster a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting a reason to look long and hard at the pineal, but we do not yet know. There are data suggesting urinary DMT rises in psychotic patients when their psychosis is worse. However, we don't know whether DMT rises during dreams, meditation, near-death, death, birth or any other endogenous altered state. To the extent those states resemble those brought on by giving DMT, it certainly makes one wonder if endogenous DMT might be involved, and if it were, it would explain a lot. But we don't know yet. Even if the pineal weren't involved, that would have little overall effect on my theories regarding a role for DMT in endogenous altered states, because we do know that the gene involved in DMT synthesis is present in many organs, particularly lung. If the pineal made DMT, it would tie up a lot of loose ends regarding this enigmatic little organ. But people seem to live pretty normals lives without a pineal gland; for example, when it has had to be removed because of a tumor.

"In both these regards--the pineal-DMT connection, and endogenous DMT dynamics--we ought to know a lot more within the next several years due to the efforts of a research group being led by Steven Barker at Louisiana State University. He, with his grad student Ethan McIlhenny, are developing a new super-assay for DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, and metabolites. This assay will be capable of detecting those compounds much more sensitively than previous generations of assays. They're looking at endogenous levels in awake sober normals, to assess baseline values of these compounds. We should have some data from those samples within a year. They also will be looking at pineal tissue. Once we have some baseline data in normal humans in normal waking consciousness, comparisons can be made between those levels and levels in endogenous altered states, like dreams, near-death, and so on."*

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## Chimpertainment

its extremely hard to nail it down with certainty because you cannot observe this actually happening. There are certain obstacles DMT has in our own body. For example dmt can not enter the bloodstream because it is immediately destroyed by monoamines. This is why people take mao inhibitors with ayahuasca. In order to directly confirm, one would have to extract dmt from the pineal while it is excreting dmt. It can freely explore the brain because of the pineals protection behind the blood-brain barrier and this is probably how dmt was discovered in the brain. 
Also, there is no other viable candidate for the production of dmt in the brain. Yes, it is conjecture, but a damn well researched one.
This is all explained in Strassman's book of course.  :smiley:

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## opaque lens

when facing anything in life, face it with full depth of honesty. through deep honesty you gain access to a deeper and more truer form of meaning.
with profound honesty as awareness you cut through your person, you are able then to face reality with a much more profound meaning.
to do this kind of work you must use your honesty as awareness and not limited it to the personal. the deeper and the more whole sense of reality is beyond the personal. the personal knowledge can guide you and enable you as awareness the skills to face reality as awareness, but do not limit your sense of experience through the person. profound honesty is a form of opening that cuts through your person and allows you as awareness to be known and to be aware of the deeper meaning about yourself.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

I should read that book, I've been meaning to. I've seen it on many bookshelves and always meant to read it. Maybe I will learn something. Well, from what I understand, and Chimp points out, is that endogenous DMT must come from somewhere in the brain because of the MAO. Everything I have heard is hear-say I admit. And I appreciate Nina for actually providing some serious honest words from the scientist who probably started all the urban legends that people take for fact. That is why we have to be smart and don't believe everything we hear about "opening" the pineal gland! 

Then we can build an imaginary worldview that we hallucinate without even the help of psychedelics like DMT. 

But I do know for a fact that DMT must come from behind the blood-brain barrier, hence the MAOI use in order to get effects. Like Chimp said, it is a well researched conjecture. I suppose that if what Strassman says is correct, and scientists don't know if DMT rises during dreams, meditation, death, etc. then only they would know, or DMT users. 

It seems that DMT IS a near death experience. So, we know what DMT does to us if we take it. We know that we have DMT inside of us already. So maybe we infer that these paranormal experiences (near-death experiences, birth, death, giving birth, dreaming) are a result of DMT.

Maybe we infer that the pineal is the source of the DMT because it creates all the precursors and that DMT is only one atom off away from any of the other tryptomines that the pineal creates. And we know that the pineal is in the brain at the chakra where the yogis say that amrita comes from (amrita: literally means immortal or not-dying, also a nectar of immortality). 

So, let this be a lesson for us. 

But anyway, Chayba: Reincarnation is a mystery. the way I look at it is that it is like sparks from a fire, there is no limit to them. Population increase or decrease aside. I don't think that consciousness is a mathematical equation. Let us assume that the ocean has a certain amount of water in it but there could be more or less waves, it doesn't matter. A wave crashes on the shore and another takes its place. A dream can have any number of DCs. You asked a good question about the collective unconsciousness and memories. It is not the soul that reincarnates. It is the consciousness that is eternal. So what you propose could be one way of looking at it, but it always happens to YOU.

Reincarnation is crazier than Tesla, because he came from it. Did you know that towards the end of his life Tesla was treating himself with electric-shock treatment in order to try to live forever?

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## ChaybaChayba

Ha! Reincarnation is crazier than Tesla because he came from it? Why do you want Tesla to be crazy so badly? To me that type of madness is more like the true soul of a scientist. The only way to discover is through experimentation. The only way to success is through failure. You call it crazy, I call it ambition. Some people try to live forever by just praying until a mystery substance oozes out of their brain which they call amrita and will grant them immortality. To most people this sounds even more crazy then electric shocks. Scientists today still use electric shocks for TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation), to induce near-death experiences. The body and the brain are electrical. 

Reincarnation might indeed be a mystery, but it is one of the most interesting ones, especially because it is related to the seperation of soul and body, and dreaming. The way you put it, as oceans and waves is a really interesting way to look at it, but then you say it is not the soul that reincarnates, but the consciousness that is eternal? What is the difference here? 

About DMT and the body thanks for linking that book, I downloaded it and I'll check it out, but to me it is pretty obvious DMT is already in the body, or there would be no receptors for DMT in the first place. I don't need to be a doctor to figure this one out.  I fail to understand the importance of the DMT molecule. Why does it matter where DMT is produced? Suppose DMT was produced in my balls, how would this change the situation?

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## Dannon Oneironaut

Hey, don't take me too seriously when I poke fun at Tesla. I love the man and I think that the world would have been a much much better place if he wan't discredited. i even own a t-shirt that says "What would Tesla Do?" He was a crazy genius, and a visionary, and maybe even a mystic. But he was crazy. He had obsessive/compulsive disorder among other things, but that doesn't take away from his greatness. I am just poking fun. I mean no harm.

The soul is an experience of self/ego. It is what drives reincarnation but it dissolves into the clear light of Universal consciousness upon enlightenment. It is an illusion. I was reading somewhere today that for every 12 seconds a normal person has 10 seconds where he experiences a sense of self. We are not aware of the other 2 seconds. I don't know how true this is but I do know that the sense of self is transitory. The soul is the root of self-clinging and the fear of losing the self is what drives reincarnation. However, the soul, being illusionary, is not what is reincarnated, but assembled again and again by our desire to cling to form to give us the false sense of security. It is ironic that the only security lies in the eternal, which is consciousness, and out of a desire for security we seek incarnation which only leads to death. It is the impersonal consciousness that remains the constant. Just like waves rise and fall but the ocean remains.

The sense of self is created by five factors: form, feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness. It is built by these five ingredients. It is like a bunch of lines crossing to create a point. The point is not eternal and immortal, it is dependent on these five ingredients.

If DMT were created in your balls then your semen would be psychoactive.

The people don't pray until their brain oozes a mysterious substance they call amrita. They do kundalini yoga which activates all their glands and hormones to secrete. Perhaps this mysterious substance is DMT? Suppose that there are physical techniques to induce it to secrete? Suppose DMT shows you who you are before birth and after death? Suppose DMT reveals to you that "I am not my thoughts, thoughts come and go but I remain. I am not my emotions, emotions come and go but I remain. I am not my sensations, sensations come and go but I remain. I am not my bodies, bodies come and go but I remain. I am a radiant awareness in which thoughts, emotions, sensations, and bodies arise, abide, change, and pass away. Letting go of the feeling of self formed by thinking and believing any thought. Letting go of the feeling of self formed by feeling and believing any emotion. Letting go of the sense of self formed by sensing and believing any sensation. Letting go of any sense of self formed by identifying with and believing I am this body. That all transitory phenomena, all thoughts, emotions, sensations, and bodies do not define me. Letting all transitory phenomena flow, change, and disappear without me. Not resisting any experience, but letting it flow without me. Not clinging to any experience, just being a pure observer. Not controlling what I see. Not reacting to what I see. Not analyzing or interpreting what I see. No observer behind the seeing, just the seeing itself. Without the thought of self, the subtle network of thoughts creating the personality becomes transitory and dissolves. The sensation of dying arises when the thought-self fades away. Yet nothing can die. The ever changing river of experience merely continues to flow forever. There is nothing I have to fear, be angry about, or be sad about. Yet I can have empathy for those who identify with their bodies and are lost in their dramas. I can still live in and through my body and interact with others. Choosing to live in love and peace with others. Purifying thought of all addictive craving, negative condemnation, and fearful delusions, I am truly free."? DMT _definitely does_ teaches us that.

The point is, I think, can we activate the pineal gland to show us a more expanded sense of who we are? As Nina pointed out, perhaps we might be flawed at using a materialist approach because we don't know if DMT is even created in the pineal. Although I am pretty sure that it is, we have no scientific proof. So perhaps we should instead approach it from a yogic approach. And see if there is a way to open the crown chakra. Is it just a coincidence that the crown chakra is the phowa path, the path used by advanced meditators to consciously release their bodies when their Earth missions are complete? It is also a vibrational chakra which helps people feel the distinction between body and consciousness, to learn how to ground in consciousness and release the subtle biological fear that so stresses humans who are going through some survival mode issues and economic uncertainty. This kind of fear appeared in human consciousness when they became "three brained beings". The cortex, limbic system, and r-complex are evolutionary brains layers over each other. The r-complex being what humans have in common with reptiles, the limbic system with mammals, and the cortex with primates, though most primates have a very thin proto-cortex and ours is thicker, having evolved for a longer time. The tri-brain has allowed humans to become the dominant multi-celled species on this planet, but it has come at a price. The cortex allows humans to extrapolate into the future and see threats to itself that are not based on immediate sensory here and now experience. This future seeing then visualizes those outcomes which the two primitive brains respond to, as if they were here and now, causing much stress, since because they are not here and now, they are not immediately solvable. The same mechanism that makes us salivate when we visualize a lemon which does not literally exist causes us to produce stress chemicals in our bodies and wear us down. There is an intermediate phowa practice where a person ejects his or her consciousness from the body  with the intention of returning. It is not as permanent as the final ejection. After one has had this kind of experience, not based on belief, but on a clear direct personal experience, then one has a basis for ending this kind of biological fear. It is necessary for the tri-brain to "get this" so that a deeper peace is possible for this species. This phowa, which seems to be more possible now, allows us to visualize a part of ourselves to which death is impossible and thus generate a "tri-brain inner peace". It is the fourth state that allows the three to be one. Perhaps the phowa practice releases DMT?

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## youngjedi

I think there is a bigger reason as to why the proof of dmt in the pineal gland is not out or why it will never be fully looked into. Thats my personal opinion!

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## tsiouz

i register only to give you an answer.the lobe chakra is not the only one that is closed.all of them are closed except the entrance of the kundalini.you can't open them artificially.and drugs going to mess your subconcious not help as they correspond only to the reactive part of the brain not the analytical one.and most of the people in this forum and any forum are full of crap and hallucinations.and you can't meditate because your head it's full of crap you can't get rid of.most people don't meditate,theιr head is going to induction state same thing when you doing a work with your hands and your mind is somewhere else.they just not honest to themselves.and the first centre that can open is the one on the heart.if that one doesen't open the rest are not going to open.and the experience is painfull and take time.in the brow centre at some point you're feeling something like a hot piece of iron is crushing your head.
you can't guide yourself to this.two things opening the centres.huge amount's of pain
or realization to yourself.and i wouldn't go the painfull way.you're just going to burn.don't use the mind.not a lot of people can start with the mind.it is full of traps and tricks.and don't hear the crap that is attached to buddhism.we are not all one.you're a person god gave you an ego.why there is a god that is giving you something and wants you to get rid of it?
It is just that your ego is mailfunctioning.and because it is weak and broken you wanna differ from the world.can't find the way to be a part of it.
and dmt is not the cause of any activity.is the result of it.and the lobe was open till 
when you were four to six.then shut down.
and dmt is not the cause of mental acivity it is the result.schizophrenics produce more dmt because of true mental activity.that is why every ancient culture respected mad people.
don't use the mind.mind is difficult.use another tool.use the sentiment.
try to feel yourself and when you learn how to feel yoursef maybe you will learn hw to
think of him.
Το Θεω δοξα.

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## shadowofwind

I agree that heart honesty is first.

I don't think that full heart openness is always a good idea in an evil environment.

You enjoy speaking down to people who you perceive to be weaker or less advanced than you, but you push away anyone would would speak to you at your level. 

By the way, pulling up old threads is against forum policy.  This helps ensure that we maintain an appearance of freshness while discussing the same half dozen topics over and over again.

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## Frozenlime

> *snip*



Clearly you have no idea that cannabis and other drugs can be used as permission slips to be dropped into the right state of mind to download information or amplify bodily awareness. You are not cheating, you are giving yourself an "excuse" to drop your shields and drop into that state. You are actually doing the same thing with meditation. Even though for example DMT is produced in the pineal gland as a result of the state, does NOT mean that you cannot consume DMT artificially as a permission slip to induce that state of mind where your crown is blown open and opening the chakras inside-out.

Drugs are not going to mess with your mind unless you allow for it, either consciously or subconsciously. In fact, some might even give you great lessons. To use your own terms, "why did god create plants that expand our awareness?"





> and you can't meditate because your head it's full of crap you can't get rid of



Isn't that why _most_ people meditate?

Just because you have decided that this is your truth, don't make it everyone else's.





> god gave you an ego.why there is a god that is giving you something and wants you to get rid of it?



To create obstacles for yourself so that you can focus your experiences. I agree though – you will lose your ego when you are supposed to, either if it's seems like it's by an accident or not. But opening your third eye is not equal to losing your ego – though stopping giving in to the ego will allow you to increase the amount of information you download & perceive.

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## tsiouz

first of all.I didn't mention any full heart openness and honesty.second kindness and honest are not relevant.What i said is try to use the sentiment because its quicker than the mind.in fact one second of sentiment is equal to twenty years of thouhs. i dont try to pretend anything more advanced than anybody.the firt seal is in the area of the heart.if that one doesen't open no centre does.simply because a lobe open with the heart centre locked going to drive you nuts very Very quick.plus is not possible.any concentration in the lobe further shuts down the centre.as for the other reply cannabis and other drugs shuts down the analytical part of the brain and activate the reactive which on base has the reptilian.when you're using drugs you raising up a shield you don't
lower anything.this is not meditation is induction state.most of the people confusing induction with meditation.meditation is the most active state of mind.active not passive.because of the upbringing of the reptilian centre on the drugs subconcious is
getting filled with useless information so drugs gonna mess your head always.you don't control the flow of infromation from the subconcious because information to the subconcious are coming only from the non-concious.the information from the concious 
to the sub-concious are coming always coded.the start of true meditation is to try to clear the crap that the subconcious has recorded so archetypical paterns can emerge from the collective to the non concious.You don't lose your ego.your ego is lost and broken.you need to find your ego.indians were using coke a part of rituals and preparation.greeks hindu chinese japanise and indians were using the fourth way.
most people don't maditate they get to an induction state.creating obstacles to your self is a process of polarity.from the one side of the axis to the other.Hermetic writings explain everything.you gonna go nowhere bouncing from the one side to the other.you need to find yourself not lose him.
Nobody of you is going to open a third eye.only hallusinations.
work on the sentiment.if the heart chakra doesen't open no one is going to open
Το Θεω δοξα.

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## Despierto

Are you saying we should use sentiment to open the heart chakra? And when can we be sure this is done, when can you move onto the other chakras such as the third eye?

Meditating with breathing exercises and using sentiments WHILE meditating should then also be effective. right?

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## tsiouz

No.You can't meditate.There are four centers in the human body.Mental sexual sentimental and instict-kinetic.Sexual is carying the most strong and finesse energies to the human body.is called sexual because of the ability to reproduce but imagine something Like a large battery in your body which give energy to all the centers and supports your body.sexual is the only centre with the instict kinetic that is remains open in a person.that is propably the reason all the movements of humanity such revolts and changes are based on the sexual.sentimental is the second fastest one closed and the fastest one open.instict controls all the processes of your organism has the same base with kinetic and kinetic is triggered by the rest of the centres.instinct is the fastest one.sentimental is locked very very quick from the birth and follows the mental after the sixth year of age.infact babies starting to imitate parents and they getting dumb in the process.the four centers respond to the archetype of the cross mental on top sexual in the bottom sentimental in the one side of the body and instict kinetic in the other.Mental is the slowest centre has two poles one positive and one negative left and right hemisphere.but if you split the brain in front and back the one is the analytical able to make the most amazing calculations and abilities and synchronize the two poles in harmony which shuts down after the sixth year maybe eight.this is why you see young children learning very fast and an adult very slow.the reactive one which part of it is the reptilian remains open cause its nessesairy for survival.the reactive works more like (imagine yourself swedish guy an axis) an axis with two poles one black one white.its quick enough to choose stupidly enough beetween two choices.when the man was primitive enough and had to avoid an enemy choosing the one or the orher.but when the speech came because the reactive doesent have any colours in a palette except two opposites the reactive started to mailfunction and then the awfull truth about humanity happened.the reactive part started to close the analytical one.the irony of this is that the reactive part is not based on imagination is based on logic.logic and paranoia together in a form of polarity everything black and white.This is why you see the most paranoid men like hitler napoleon ect sound always logic this is why you see in the tv arguments based on logic besides the world is collapsing again for infinite maybe time this is why when you saw matrix you Feel how possible is for humanity to sleep with open eyes this is why you see people go to their jobs like robots and you know even how they are going to die except if an accident or an injury happens.reactive part is based on reaction,on fear. is filling the sub concious with garbage and blocking the analytical one to put helpfull information in your dreams.and because only the sexual and the instinct centre remains open the only information that can bypass the subconcious are sexual and that through the mirror of the reactive part.this is why a psychiatrist say that all the dreams you see is a result of libido.Now The part when somebody is meditating is when he's tuning all of his centre's to the same channel.but since the only one working properly and that not always is the sexual,meditation is impossible.The stance of the lotus is a stance desinged to force the energy to the sexual with the possibility to unblock the trap that
the rest of the centres put to the sexual and the chance that the sexual going to unblock the rest of the centres..oh and i said use the sentiment because of two reasons. first its faster then the mental.one second of thought is twenty years of sentiment.second is the centre that follows the sexual so is the next one.third the process of opening an energy centre is chartographed in the body.it happens to you you don't do it.most of the people believe that when a centre is opening you are becoming smarter psychic abilities and all that crap.but the truth is that when a person unites his ego FINDS his ego centres are opening as a result.they are not the cause they are the result.what you heard about near death experiences and accidents
that opens centres is because of the bypass of the instinct (one secons of instinct is twenty years of thought except if sentimental centres are unlocked) which is a very dangerous thing to do because it is more likely that you are going to die.So your question propably is going to be how you can open the rest of the centres.if you want the answer let me know.

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## ChiefPacalukos

This may sound a tad ridiculous, but laying down quite usually will easily do the trick. The completely neutral body positioning balances out your ethereal flows, and you may begin to feel an overwhelming, yet loving vibration spread throughout your being. This vibration is GOOD.

I typically practice this when I feel a strong vibration in my chest, lower back or forehead. I'm also prone to envisioning vague, yet obvious fractal forms and hearing otherworldly music. However, these are just signs that your chakras are flowing correctly and at an astounding rate as well. Good luck

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## tsiouz

that doesen't sound ridiculous at all.

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## Despierto

> No.You can't meditate.There are four centers in the human body.Mental sexual sentimental and instict-kinetic.Sexual is carying the most strong and finesse energies to the human body.is called sexual because of the ability to reproduce but imagine something Like a large battery in your body which give energy to all the centers and supports your body.sexual is the only centre with the instict kinetic that is remains open in a person.that is propably the reason all the movements of humanity such revolts and changes are based on the sexual.sentimental is the second fastest one closed and the fastest one open.instict controls all the processes of your organism has the same base with kinetic and kinetic is triggered by the rest of the centres.instinct is the fastest one.sentimental is locked very very quick from the birth and follows the mental after the sixth year of age.infact babies starting to imitate parents and they getting dumb in the process.the four centers respond to the archetype of the cross mental on top sexual in the bottom sentimental in the one side of the body and instict kinetic in the other.Mental is the slowest centre has two poles one positive and one negative left and right hemisphere.but if you split the brain in front and back the one is the analytical able to make the most amazing calculations and abilities and synchronize the two poles in harmony which shuts down after the sixth year maybe eight.this is why you see young children learning very fast and an adult very slow.the reactive one which part of it is the reptilian remains open cause its nessesairy for survival.the reactive works more like (imagine yourself swedish guy an axis) an axis with two poles one black one white.its quick enough to choose stupidly enough beetween two choices.when the man was primitive enough and had to avoid an enemy choosing the one or the orher.but when the speech came because the reactive doesent have any colours in a palette except two opposites the reactive started to mailfunction and then the awfull truth about humanity happened.the reactive part started to close the analytical one.the irony of this is that the reactive part is not based on imagination is based on logic.logic and paranoia together in a form of polarity everything black and white.This is why you see the most paranoid men like hitler napoleon ect sound always logic this is why you see in the tv arguments based on logic besides the world is collapsing again for infinite maybe time this is why when you saw matrix you Feel how possible is for humanity to sleep with open eyes this is why you see people go to their jobs like robots and you know even how they are going to die except if an accident or an injury happens.reactive part is based on reaction,on fear. is filling the sub concious with garbage and blocking the analytical one to put helpfull information in your dreams.and because only the sexual and the instinct centre remains open the only information that can bypass the subconcious are sexual and that through the mirror of the reactive part.this is why a psychiatrist say that all the dreams you see is a result of libido.Now The part when somebody is meditating is when he's tuning all of his centre's to the same channel.but since the only one working properly and that not always is the sexual,meditation is impossible.The stance of the lotus is a stance desinged to force the energy to the sexual with the possibility to unblock the trap that
> the rest of the centres put to the sexual and the chance that the sexual going to unblock the rest of the centres..oh and i said use the sentiment because of two reasons. first its faster then the mental.one second of thought is twenty years of sentiment.second is the centre that follows the sexual so is the next one.third the process of opening an energy centre is chartographed in the body.it happens to you you don't do it.most of the people believe that when a centre is opening you are becoming smarter psychic abilities and all that crap.but the truth is that when a person unites his ego FINDS his ego centres are opening as a result.they are not the cause they are the result.what you heard about near death experiences and accidents
> that opens centres is because of the bypass of the instinct (one secons of instinct is twenty years of thought except if sentimental centres are unlocked) which is a very dangerous thing to do because it is more likely that you are going to die.So your question propably is going to be how you can open the rest of the centres.if you want the answer let me know.



What you're saying sounds a little bit complicated but sounds legit, it's little bit hard to read though but I think I got the big picture..
Also I would love to know how to open the rest of the centres and read more from you about that

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## tsiouz

The problem is like the donkey with a carrot on a stick infront of him.as i said before opening of the centers is not the target is the result.lets get the hypothesis that a person try to commit suicide.he's taking a box of pills his family on time gets him to a hospital.then when he's on a coma and happens the follow.the reactive part of the brain as it is focused blindly on the survival overloads shut's down and the analyzer returns from atrophy
and opens a centre.supposively that centre its the lobe.he wakes up from a coma having a blur but a certain memory of what happens.nothing changes.simply because the energy 
flowing from the kuntalini and from the crown is blocked from flowing by the rest of the centres.some people open maybe one or two centres in their lifetime but no change.So the question is why centres unlock.they unlock when the person beginsto become aware
of himself in that area sentiment or mental.it is a process chartographed in the body is the result of a change.now you are hearing people in forums of the changes they make
and awakenings and fifth dimensions and 2012 and all that crap.
But if you're HONEST WITH YOURSELF (not the others you don't have to be a honest person plain honesty is stupidity) you see the simple.people dont change.

in fact if you look history behind the curtain things were always the same.
so all of that techiques are useless.meditation which is a pure change cannot occurs.
lucid dreaming is the simpliest thing subconcious is full of crap people add more crap and then because it overloads it starts vomiting things back.and of course there is no question of cooperation of the centers so even lower sexual which is open cannot aid any other centre.

the problem is simple.
------------------------------------{}------------------------------------------
think of the above bar like this.{} this is the present time.the bars behind it its the past.the bars after it it's the future.now a person becomes truly aware of his ego when he is constantly on the present time.and the problem is the follow.the reactive part of the brain doesen't let the analytical one to focus on the present time with thoughs images sentiments and projections that pull constantly the person out of the present time.think of it like that.you starting to use a technique of meditation.so you're closing your eyes you putting your eyes up 45 degrees and you try to put any thoughts away.and then without noticing you're slipping even when you don't think soyou're slipping.and after five minutes attention is completely away and you wanna sleep.now why that happens.the reactive part as mailfunctioning always disorienting the person from the present time.that happens very fast.and as the progressive parts of the brain struggle your energy is drawned and then you're getting tires.the reactive part instead of cooperating with the analytical  shuts it down constantly.so it is not possible to meditate it is not possible to focus (a different thing from meditation) you're always away from yourself.drugs are relaxing you because they block in advance the analyzer and the true potentials of the sentiment so the reactive relaxes and stops torturing you.you realize of course in that point that the way that the drugs are getting used in ancient techniques with a completely different way.the getting used in order to bring the complex (imagine every centre like a cheese circle but made of wax which the reactive just messes up and ties up everything)part of the analyzer to the surface and work with it.but if a part of the analyzer is not already working something like that is not possible.so most of the people just getting high and their mind shuts down

So the true first exercise.
the first exersise is plain simple.forget any form of meditation.think of yourself like a camera is taping you with unlimited angles.think of yourself as somebody is video taping you and you see yourself through a camera.constantly.do it the whole day.doesen't matter where you do it just do it till you sleep.
Now the trap.most of the people you see around you they start an exercise and after a while they say how good is the result of that exercise.
but as they are used to react on anything they're just non conciously defending themselves from the truth.
THEY ARE NOT HONESLTY RAW WITH THEMSELVES.And when you're trying to tell them 
the simple they just react like it is your fault.don't make the same mistake.you mind will ALWAYS DISORIENTS YOU FROM WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
try more and more constanly and don't forget.
ATTENTION TO THE SELF IS NEVER ENOUGH.
For any question contact me privately.
good luck.

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## solidsmoker

Its simple drink a cleanser and sleep alot of hours everyday and stop watching tv or going on the computer and you'll start to daydream alot after that i'd say you pretty much opened you third eye. 
ps. It helps to put a light over th head of your bed get your face close look at the light with your eyes closed and to imagine things and to make geometric shapes.

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## eucsstamticc

Have you tried magnets yet?

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