# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity >  >  SilverBullet's Newly Revised Key to Lucid Dreaming

## SilverBullet

*(posted again due to the website data loss)*

So, after much trail and error in my learning process about lucid dreaming I've come up with a much better thread than my last. This should help you with how to lucid dream the same way naturals lucid dream.

Now, I'm going to tell you that If you are the lazy kind of person who doesn't want to do reality checks, take supplements, watch for dream signs, use a dream journal, or meditate, then this technique is perfect for you. Because I don't do ANY of that stuff, and look at my lucid dream count. I started September 2010. I started like most people here, desperately wanting to lucid dream but still not even being able to remember my dreams. I started completely from scratch. Now, lets get to business. I'll try to do this in steps:

*Step 1*: First, you need to get rid of the idea that lucid dreaming is hard. Because it's actually VERY easy. The only thing stopping you from lucid dreaming is you. I don't like that fact that most people on this website spread the idea that lucid dreaming is hard, it's like a disease. Stop spreading it.

*Step 2*(this step is most important): FEEL that you were born a natural lucid dreaming master. That you are a Lucid dreamer with every cell in your body, like it's your destiny to lucid dream! Imagine that you have already attained your goal. Your subconscious doesn't know the difference between what you are imagining and what is happening.

*Step 3*: Do things as if you already have the "becoming aware in a dream" part down. Think about what you want to do once you are in a lucid dream. It can be anything. One good one is looking at your hands in a dream. Try to look at your hands once you are in a dream. You don't need to make a habit of looking at your hands in daily life. Just do it when you are in a dream. It may sound like this makes no sense, but it works.

*Step 4*(optional, but recommended): If you are lucid and the dream starts fading, remember to not move and don't open your eyes when you when you wake up. Then you can re-enter a dream quickly. You can do this many times and get many lucids. You can try this same thing with waking from non-lucid sleep, but I find it easier when you are lucid in the first place.

The reason why there isn't that many steps is because lucid dreaming is easy.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to do it.

You can use these steps in combination with any technique you want, or no techniques at all. You can also use it for what kind of lucid you want.
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*TIPS:*
Now here are some important tips for you, I'm not putting them in steps because It's not necessarily in order:

*Do not stress out about lucid dreaming, if you don't have a lucid dream don't let it bring you down. Be strong and keep going.

*You don't need a dream journal. But keep one if you want.
I'm not telling you to NOT keep one.

*I usually use this in combination with WBTB and the modification of WILD, which works best for me, try different things and find what works best for you.

*The surroundings of the room you sleep in can greatly effect your dreams. Did you know that if you sleep in a cold room you are more likely to get nightmares? Sleep in a warm room and you're more likely to get good dreams. The light level and smell of your room also effect dreams greatly. Right now there are smells that you don't even consciously notice but are currently effecting your mood and state of mind. And usually for me if I sleep with my light off and wake up in a dream then my dream will also be dark and if its on then my dream is brighter. That's just me though. Just make yourself comfortable.

*If WBTBs work better for you then you can use an alarm to wake you up or you can trust yourself to wake up at a certain time. Like I said, you can combine this technique with many other techniques.

*Don't try so hard. You need to trust your subconscious to do this.

*Being able to sleep is your first priority. So don't get too excited or you won't even be able to fall asleep.

*I strongly advise you read Carlos Castaneda's "The Art of Dreaming" book if you already haven't. If it weren't for that book I wouldn't be the lucid dreamer I am now.

*Every little detail I've put in this tutorial is very important.

*Don't talk about it just DO IT.

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## Caretaker

I love this guide. It's very helpful and takes the pressure out of trying to LD. Thanks for the repost, Silver!

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## SilverBullet

Didn't you say you had a lucid last time you did this? You should edit your lucid count since the website reverted it to 6 days ago or something like that..

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## Caretaker

Actually I have not had my first LD yet. I'm using your technique though. I think I'll give WBTB a try. Either way, I'm still just as positive that I'll get it done as I was a week ago!  ::D:

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## SilverBullet

Oh must have been someone else. Can't exactly remember, didn't expect this data loss to happen.

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## rvbfreak

wow....I had a lucid after a dry month using this, but basically woke myself up. Time to learn how to stay asleep now.

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## LucidRaider

Thanks , silverbullet for the repost. bloody dreamviews. *rolls eyes* lmao. This is why i journal everything lol

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## rvbfreak

> Thanks , silverbullet for the repost. bloody dreamviews. *rolls eyes* lmao. This is why i journal everything lol



i use wordpress.

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## siuol

silverbullet, this never worked for me, however i did some tweaking and make a variation of this that i can now use to pick out my dream scene. the problem was i couldnt have confidence in having a lucid every night, so i fit it into having an awesome non lucid, and visualized what i wanted to happen while i was in that state of confidence. i made a thread on it, but now i think i found the mindset i need for this to work, so in a few days i will try to have confidence in my lucid dreaming ability instead of non-lucid ability. so far i can influence the dream scene i want and got 1 lucid from it (2 attempts, 2 success). this thread and the one before got me started, and now that i know the mindset in a few days i will try your technique and im sure i can get frequent lucids from it.

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## SilverBullet

Yeah, like I said you should find out what works for you.

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## Marsupilama

Thank you SilverBullet, I was looking for a 'natural' guide to lucid dreaming for some time now, as I also believe everyone should be perfectly capable of doing this naturally. I see one problem, hopefully you have experienced it and can give advice. It's about entitlement. I don't think most people really feel entitled to actually lucid dream every night. And by feel entitled I don't mean saying "Sure I'm confident I can lucid dream naturally every night!", I mean truely believing it deep down on a subconscious level. Now the difficult question is, how does one establish that? Obviously everyone comes from a different background and therefore might face more or less difficulties on accepting the idea of dreaming lucid every night without any aids isn't a big deal. I don't know if there is any quick guide on gaining entitlement (to anything what you want and don't get really), but I think if you (or anyone else) have any ideas on that, it may greatly improve the results...

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## [email protected]

renovated guide!! thank you SilverBullet! I had a LD right after I read the previous one, but since then I had nothing  :Sad:   I think I got stuck on step 3, I might practice that

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## Xegar

I tried it but didn't have a LD. Maybe because i only slept about 7 hours. No problem, i will try it again, but what frustrated me was that i couldn't DEILD: i had the most perfect ever, didn't move a bit, kept my eyes closed, but nothing happened at all. Damn school always ruins my LDs and i have to start over every summer like a beginner..

edit: the problem is that i could never successfully DEILD. is it possible that one of my REM stages just ended and that's why i couldn't do it? Any idea?

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## INeverWakeUp

Thanks! This looks like it will most definantly be helpful!

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## rvbfreak

another lucid last night. Loving this guide. Second one this week.

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## Raspberry

Hey it took awhile to try again but I did.

Last night I thought "I lucid dream every night, all of them clear and long." I also said this to myself during the day. While I thought it, I created emotion (makes it stick in the brain or something), made myself excited and happy at the thought of it. Didn't have any doubt. I also visualised myself becoming lucid.

I got lucid three times last night  ::D:  They were clear, though they were quite foggy when I woke up. 

Let's see how it goes tonight, though with this method it's more up to the person, not the actual technique.

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## Marm

> I got lucid three times last night  They were clear, though they were quite foggy when I woke up.



Three? Wow congratz girl! It's been a while since i've had three lucids in one night. Awesome.

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## Marm

This guide is officially my new favourite.

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## SilverBullet

I found out that not many people are clicking this tutorial because of the title, hahah, welp sucks for them!

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## Ametam

This tutorial is the best  :smiley:  The only problem I have is the self confidence, I have trouble believing I can do it, its stupid i know, just somthing I can't overcome that easily.  I often think to myself "hey, im due for a lucid" and 9/10 it will happen. Anyway I had one of those, but when I got up in the morning I was like "That was great, If I got lucid last night, why can't I get Lucid tonight?" So as I was going through the day I was getting excited for the lucid I was going to have that night, not a false excitment, but a genuine belief. And what do you know, I got another lucid. So I did that the next night and got another. I then got sick and I fell back into disbelief  :Sad:  The lucids were also rather short which was disappointing  :Sad:  but still, a great guide  :smiley:

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## INeverWakeUp

Holy shit dude. I've been using my mantra every night and no results. Last might, I didn't use my mantra...three LDs!

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## dreamcatcher81

It is always gd to switch it up from time to time & sometimes the benefits of your hard work show up when u least expect it.




> Holy shit dude. I've been using my mantra every night and no results. Last might, I didn't use my mantra...three LDs!



 namaste

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## INeverWakeUp

What does namaste mean?

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## dreamcatcher81

Namaste (Devanagari: नमस्ते; formal: Namaskar) is a common spoken greeting or salutation originating from the Indian subcontinent. It is a customary greeting when individuals meet, and a salutation upon their parting.

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## Erii

This is one of the best techniques, its so simple but effective.

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## Ctharlhie

I've had a lot of success with this technique, so thanks SilverBullet  :smiley:  but I have to say I will still keep a dream journal for archival purposes at least. I think this technique is so effective because it takes the most important element of a MILD, belief, and focuses on that.

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## divinemission

Great guide here. I don't doubt that works. Getting those subliminal messages in your mind along with firmly believing you are a "master" at lucid dreaming I think greatly increases your chances of having one. 

My favorite part of the guide was the beginning, though... it kind of sounded like an infomercial. lol

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## INeverWakeUp

Ever since I stopped doing my mantra, and following this guide, my LD rate's been through the roof. You're fucking amazing dude. My LD count was 104 Thursday, now it's 109, three days later. I never have this much luck. Thank you dude.

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## SilverBullet

I'm glad I could help you guys.

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## Avalanche

I need help on the believing bit. After 80 nights of nothing but one semi lucid, belief is one thing that seems very very difficult to get. If it's the most important part, then am I screwed if I can't get it?

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## SilverBullet

Read step 2 again, I didn't really say you need to believe it. Your subconscious doesn't know what's hard and what isn't. Say if you shot for 10 lucids a night, your subconscious isn't going to go "Oh I don't know if I can do THAT, like maybe at least 1 a night but 10?!". Your subconscious doesn't do that. Just imagine that you are a lucid dreaming master, and that you get many many lucids every night, even if you don't believe it. Your subconscious will though, and that's what matters most.

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## Avalanche

So my subconscious is an idiot and will believe anything I do? Sounds just as tough as making myself believe I will lucid dream tonight- there just isn't enough factual evidence to support such a claim for me. I can't just be told something and go "Oh yeah, that sounds right". I need a second opinion or some sort of proof.

My own problem I guess. I can at least try.

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## SilverBullet

Haha, well it's not exactly an idiot. Because once it believes it, it makes it true.

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## SilverBullet

And in case I didn't convince you I would like to mention a boy that lost his eyes to cancer when he was young. YouTube - &#x202a;Blind Kid uses Echolocation to "See"&#x202c;&rlm;.
When he got older he could see. He does it with echolocation. He sees with sound. Now what is different about him that makes him have that ability and not most other blind people? When he was little, after he lost his eyes he told his mom that he couldn't see. His mother told him that he CAN still see, he can see with his ears, and that he can see with his hands. His mother encouraged him to believe that he *could* see. And so he did. You can just watch the videos on him.

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## rynkrt3

I'm with origami on this one.  Just "feeling" as if I was a master and trying to beleive it hasn't done shit for me in the months I've been trying since your first tutorial.

From what I've seen, this technique works for you so you assume th subconcious has no idea what's going on.  If you think and feel as if you were a master your not going to just become a master.  Your right, lucid dreaming is not hard, but it does take some time and work.  Now for the few people this has worked for this doesn't apply but for most just "feeling" as if you were natural doesn't work.

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## SilverBullet

Hmm, perhaps this has to do with ones bent of character. I really don't know what to say to you rynkrt.

I will give one final tip, but I'm not forcing my beliefs on you. You choose to believe me or not.
What it is that drives this technique isn't so much belief. It's intent, I've yet to mention it because It has to do with what people believe and it can be pretty controversial.

to use intent is "Wishing without wishing, wanting without really wanting."

Here is a quote from don juan: 

"In the universe there is an unmeasurable, indescribable force which sorcerers call intent. Absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link. Sorcerers, warriors, are concerned with discussing, understanding, and employing that connecting link. They are especially concerned with cleaning it of the numbing effects brought about by the ordinary concerns of their everyday lives. Sorcery at this level could be defined as the procedure of cleaning one's connecting link to intent." This is what I do, but I don't exactly expect any of you to believe it, as it does sound far fetched.

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## martango

::D:  Great thread.

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## rynkrt3

> Hmm, perhaps this has to do with ones bent of character. I really don't know what to say to you rynkrt.
> 
> I will give one final tip, but I'm not forcing my beliefs on you. You choose to believe me or not.
> What it is that drives this technique isn't so much belief. It's intent, I've yet to mention it because It has to do with what people believe and it can be pretty controversial.
> 
> to use intent is "Wishing without wishing, wanting without really wanting."
> 
> Here is a quote from don juan: 
> 
> "In the universe there is an unmeasurable, indescribable force which sorcerers call intent. Absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link. Sorcerers, warriors, are concerned with discussing, understanding, and employing that connecting link. They are especially concerned with cleaning it of the numbing effects brought about by the ordinary concerns of their everyday lives. Sorcery at this level could be defined as the procedure of cleaning one's connecting link to intent." This is what I do, but I don't exactly expect any of you to believe it, as it does sound far fetched.



So you basically passively want lucids but you do absolutely nothing to get them?

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## Avalanche

Firstly, WOOT at Silverbullets avatar, ALUCARD is boss.

Secondly, believing is impossible (yeah I went there) when there is only the success of others to go on. I can't just know I'm going to lucid dream tonight purely because you do in yourself. It just doesn't work like that. If however I had worked my arse off for weeks doing R.C.s and the like, and I expected myself to have a lucid, because I felt I had reached the pinnacle of R.C.s, then I most likely would. 

"Believe isn't told or taught, it is discovered" 

Thats a famous quote from Ori Gami. He's a wise guy.

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## SilverBullet

> So you basically passively want lucids but you do absolutely nothing to get them?



No. That's not what I meant. It's almost like "knowing" something is going to happen, but that isn't quite right either. Like Don Juan says "If I tried to explain intent I would just be talking in circles"
The only way to truly find out what it is, is to find out on your own.





> Firstly, WOOT at Silverbullets avatar, ALUCARD is boss.
> 
> Secondly, believing is impossible (yeah I went there) when there is only the success of others to go on. I can't just know I'm going to lucid dream tonight purely because you do in yourself. It just doesn't work like that. If however I had worked my arse off for weeks doing R.C.s and the like, and I expected myself to have a lucid, because I felt I had reached the pinnacle of R.C.s, then I most likely would. 
> 
> "Believe isn't told or taught, it is discovered" 
> 
> Thats a famous quote from Ori Gami. He's a wise guy.



Once again its not really belief.

Say, if you were going to drop a ball on the ground. Even if you believe as hard as possible that it wont drop when you let go doesn't change the fact that it's still going to hit the ground. Now, when using intent, you may even do things that defy rationality. But you can only do something of that level only when you have cleansed your link with intent(along with some other complicated things). By that I mean losing our bonds with daily life, and becoming impeccable.

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## LucidRaider

What if you think of it like this,... When you dream, when you are dreaming, you have everything you need to lucid dream right there and then, you dont need much more else to realise your dreaming, if you believe that you can realise your dreaming when you are dreaming, then... you will. Because what else more do you need? some secret code? no.  :tongue2:  See what i'm getting at?. you all have points, but belief can work, and if it doesnt, you can find a way with just trying or making your subconscious believe you lucid dream every night. The fact your saying believing in it is impossible, just increases your doubt in not only the technique all together, but yourself. I admit i'v been trying to do this, but not much result . I'm in a bad lucid crisis dry spell., But i believe that silverbullets method, some way or another, IS going to get my out of it.  So think of it like that: Your dreaming, and your in that moment, you need nothing more to lucid dream,. Just yourself. You can do it alone. And you can just use your subconscious to assist you in other ways,. I'v used the subconscious methods before. They worked once or twice, and they need elements,. Trust, Belief, Intent, Confidence, . But those elements are EASY to obtain. Confidence is being positive about the technique, Trust is trusting your mind, belief in the fact you can do this, and intent is the emotion your giving into your focus of what your doing.  See what i mean?. :/ . I hope i make sense  ::roll::  .  Sorry if its long lol.  :SleepMeditate2:

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## SilverBullet

> *text*



Wow, couldn't of said it better myself.

Agh, I realize I sound as if I'm contradicting myself. For me, intent is the main element in this technique. But all the other elements lucidraider mentioned are needed too.

Man, this technique is so simple yet so infinitely complex.

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## Avalanche

I think I have it though- ahem.

If you know you will lucid, you will. If you know that when you get out of bed your feet will touch carpet, then they will. Mainly because there is not a shadow of a doubt in your mind that there is carpet under your bed. When you go into a dream, all you have to do is know that somewhere in the dream is a clear point, where you will become lucid. So far for me this is easy, I mean where else will I become lucid? On the bus? Nope.
So if I go to bed, and have a dream, I know already at some point somewhere there is a clear, defining moment and point where I can get lucid. I just walk past it every time. Like I know it's there, I just don't want to know.

I miss it because I don't have a goal. I go to sleep, to dream. No questions, no reason. If we went to sleep to lucid, then we would. If we did it once before it's like going to bed to sleep- we know we did it, we know we can do it again.
If we go to sleep with the intent, real intent like "I'm going to bed to have a lucid, nothing else", then your mind will expect, like the carpet and the dreams, that lucids should follow.

AmIdoingitrite?

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## Raspberry

> So my subconscious is an idiot and will believe anything I do? Sounds just as tough as making myself believe I will lucid dream tonight- there just isn't enough factual evidence to support such a claim for me. I can't just be told something and go "Oh yeah, that sounds right". I need a second opinion or some sort of proof.
> 
> My own problem I guess. I can at least try.



There is actually factual evidence. When you think it fires off neurons or something like that. The more you think about something, the easier it will fire off. I don't know the whole thing but it does come from signals in the brain.

As SilverBullet said, the subconscious doesn't know the truth. It believes any thought you think and works so make that happen.

This tutorial is very good, especially for people new to lucid dreaming as they don't understand the whole concept of belief until later. Lucid dreaming is all in the brain. All the techniques, they are all there to try and change your mind to realise you're dreaming one way or another, right? Maybe except WILD. 

But remember that this isn't a quick fix like some threads about vitamins and food. This is something to work on with your mind. I'm busy with school at the moment so I haven't given it a real change and real work, but it's already gotten me lucid dreams and I plan on really going for it in the summer, with little other techniques. Maybe a WBTB each night and a dream journal. I truely believe this is the way to go with lucid dreaming. It makes perfect sense.

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## deltz

Wow, I never thought this would of worked but I think it just did last night!!! I've been trying to get lucid for a while with no luck but this has done it!
Problem is the lucid wasn't very vivid, at one point I just clocked on that it was a dream and looked at my hands straight away but I cant remember if I had more than 5 fingers. Anyway I imagined what I wanted to be past the door, and when I opened it, it was there. Could this be just a normal dream? Because those are the steps in my head that I go over before I go to sleep.

I do think it was a lucid though and have to thank you for that!!

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## Avalanche

If you could look around and decide what you wanted to do, then that was lucid. If you knew it was a dream and could feel everything vividly, but were still taken along for the ride like normal dreams, that was semi lucid.

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## deltz

Thanks for the clarification, was 100% a lucid dream then! Thanks again SilverBullet.

For those who might be interested this is what I did and worked for me:
As I got into bed I watched a video of wanted I wanted to dream of to get me pumped and excited. Then I got cocky with myself and said I was born with the skill to lucid dream, I dont even have to think about it. Just like im breathing automatically the lucid dreams the same way. Worked  :smiley:

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## rynkrt3

I don't understand how to actually do this.  Like, do you repeat a mantra before bed?  I don't get it, it sounds like you just know you will become lucid, but thats basically doing nothing at all.  Could someone please explain how to actually have a lucid without trying... or w/e this is.

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## Avalanche

I think rynkrt3, it's basically telling yourself over and over you are the best at lucid dreaming and you can and do have them whenever you want. You don't say it over and over until it is drummed into your head, you just have to at least pretend you believe it. Like deltz said, act all cocky and confident, that "Yeah, lucid dreaming is easy, I'm not worried or concerned about whether or not I will have one tonight, because I will have one. I have been practicing and trying and so now there is no way I won't have one tonight".

Just pretend you know you will have one. Think of it like your subconscious is listening to you, and is trying to do it's best to do what you want (it is actually). If it hears that you are a master lucid dreamer and you're going to have one tonight, it will try to have one, rather than just happen across one when you lay in bed at 4 in the morning not moving.

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## rynkrt3

> I think rynkrt3, it's basically telling yourself over and over you are the best at lucid dreaming and you can and do have them whenever you want. You don't say it over and over until it is drummed into your head, you just have to at least pretend you believe it. Like deltz said, act all cocky and confident, that "Yeah, lucid dreaming is easy, I'm not worried or concerned about whether or not I will have one tonight, because I will have one. I have been practicing and trying and so now there is no way I won't have one tonight".
> 
> Just pretend you know you will have one. Think of it like your subconscious is listening to you, and is trying to do it's best to do what you want (it is actually). If it hears that you are a master lucid dreamer and you're going to have one tonight, it will try to have one, rather than just happen across one when you lay in bed at 4 in the morning not moving.



Well, that is exactly what I have been doing for over a month, and it has yet to give me any results.

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## Avalanche

Well then it's going nowhere for you. Give up on this one, it isn't working for you. A month, even 2 weeks would have told you without a doubt that it wasn't for you. You need to feel like you are doing something, actually taking steps to your goal. I could suggest a whole heap of methods for you, but you will know better than me.

At least we know now that this one isn't compatible with you.

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## Raspberry

> Well, that is exactly what I have been doing for over a month, and it has yet to give me any results.



Tell me exactly what you done and thought to yourself.

Remember it takes about a month to create new neural pathways in the brain (habits) so this isn't something that makes it all happen over night.

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## rynkrt3

> Tell me exactly what you done and thought to yourself.
> 
> Remember it takes about a month to create new neural pathways in the brain (habits) so this isn't something that makes it all happen over night.



Basically I would just tell myself before bed that I knew I would have a lucid, and not give it much thought.  I really don't understand how to do this.

Could you explain to me what you do for this method?

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## Raspberry

> Basically I would just tell myself before bed that I knew I would have a lucid, and not give it much thought.  I really don't understand how to do this.
> 
> Could you explain to me what you do for this method?



Sure  :smiley:  

Basically what SilverBullet is teaching is that using your subconscious mind is pretty much _essential_ to lucid dreaming. And I believe it is.

The majority of your mind (5/6ths I think it is) is subconscious. Your subconscious is affected by every thought you think, and it works at making those thoughts your reality. Lucid dreaming is all in the mind, so the practice should be in the mind too, right? This technique is to create a mindset that you absolutely will lucid dream every night without fail, and then your subconscious will make that happen. 

To get your subconscious working in your favour, you need to think a positive thought in the present tense, with positive emotion attatched to it and a strong visualisation. Something along the lines of "I have many lucid dreams every night that was long and clear". Whilest thinking this, imagine yourself becoming lucid in a dream (try and imagine it in as much detail as possible) and carrying out your goals. Really convince yourself. If it's not true, lie to yourself. Force yourself to never think "I can't lucid dream." "I'm a newbie at lucid dreaming." 

Believe you are a master. Have you ever told a lie so many times that after awhile even _you_ start to believe it? This is what you're doing. You're making yourself believe whole-heartedly that you can consistantly lucid dream whilest also making your subconscious work towards it to instead of against you. Because if you think "I can't lucid dream" it will believe that, and it will work to make sure you do not lucid dream. And remember what I said about how it takes a month to form a habit (new neural pathways in the brain that fire off neurons more easily the more you think it).

Another important message in this tutorial is to not try so damn hard. So many people overwork themselves when it comes to lucid dreaming and then when they stop they start getting them. Don't stress relax.

You're always relaxed because you're a master lucid dreamer, right?  :wink2: 

I hope that helps you.

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## rynkrt3

> Sure  
> 
> Basically what SilverBullet is teaching is that using your subconscious mind is pretty much _essential_ to lucid dreaming. And I believe it is.
> 
> The majority of your mind (5/6ths I think it is) is subconscious. Your subconscious is affected by every thought you think, and it works at making those thoughts your reality. Lucid dreaming is all in the mind, so the practice should be in the mind too, right? This technique is to create a mindset that you absolutely will lucid dream every night without fail, and then your subconscious will make that happen. 
> 
> To get your subconscious working in your favour, you need to think a positive thought in the present tense, with positive emotion attatched to it and a strong visualisation. Something along the lines of "I have many lucid dreams every night that was long and clear". Whilest thinking this, imagine yourself becoming lucid in a dream (try and imagine it in as much detail as possible) and carrying out your goals. Really convince yourself. If it's not true, lie to yourself. Force yourself to never think "I can't lucid dream." "I'm a newbie at lucid dreaming." 
> 
> Believe you are a master. Have you ever told a lie so many times that after awhile even _you_ start to believe it? This is what you're doing. You're making yourself believe whole-heartedly that you can consistantly lucid dream whilest also making your subconscious work towards it to instead of against you. Because if you think "I can't lucid dream" it will believe that, and it will work to make sure you do not lucid dream. And remember what I said about how it takes a month to form a habit (new neural pathways in the brain that fire off neurons more easily the more you think it).
> ...



That helped a ton, thanks.  But, how often do I say that to myself?

----------


## Raspberry

Hm, when you wake up and before you go to bed is best. But pretty much whenever you catch yourself negatively thinking about lding correct it  :wink2:

----------


## rynkrt3

> Hm, when you wake up and before you go to bed is best. But pretty much whenever you catch yourself negatively thinking about lding correct it



How long have you been using this method?

----------


## Raspberry

> How long have you been using this method?



It's more of a mindset than a method. I done it for about a week and got 3 lucids but stopped because i've been busy. I plan to start up again over the summer.

Think of it this way. Before I began lucid dreaming I had experienced 0. Through kinda knowing I can lucid dream (though not to the standard this tutorial suggests) i've gotten 33 this year with no techniques at all except keeping an irregular dj. No WBTB, no WILDs, no reality checking.. nothing. It shows how your thinking works. When you improve your thinking you'll improve how many lucids you get.

That's what I think anyway  :smiley:

----------


## rynkrt3

> It's more of a mindset than a method. I done it for about a week and got 3 lucids but stopped because i've been busy. I plan to start up again over the summer.
> 
> Think of it this way. Before I began lucid dreaming I had experienced 0. Through kinda knowing I can lucid dream (though not to the standard this tutorial suggests) i've gotten 33 this year with no techniques at all except keeping an irregular dj. No WBTB, no WILDs, no reality checking.. nothing. It shows how your thinking works. When you improve your thinking you'll improve how many lucids you get.
> 
> That's what I think anyway



I understand this, sort of.  When you say your thinking can effect your lucid dreaming.  And that you will start this back up, what do you mean by that?  Am I supposed to be "Constantly" thinking " I am a lucid dreaming master" all the time?  It confused me when you said start this back up, as if it takes time to think about it... I have no idea.

----------


## Avalanche

Think of it this way Rynkrt3:

Don't think about it. Just do it, alright? Don't think when you need to do it, don't set alarms to remind you, don't stress.

Just. Do it.

----------


## Avalanche

Even though I did say to you to give up on it, what did you do?

You didn't. 

Thats half the battle won. You see it in yourself the capability to do this one.

----------


## SilverBullet

Rynkrt, lets try something else. Lets just get rid of step 2 all together for you and do step 3. Stop focusing on how to become lucid, stop focusing on how to believe you are a master lucid dreamer, just focus on what you want to do in your dream. Like for me, my goal is to go to this place again.
Focus completely on what you want to do, at least for now. We are just experimenting to find out if it works for you, because obviously the regular way just isn't working. When you are going to do a lucid, when your in your bed don't even think about how your going to be aware in the dream. Only thing you should be focusing on is what you want to happen when you are dreaming.

----------


## rynkrt3

> Rynkrt, lets try something else. Lets just get rid of step 2 all together for you and do step 3. Stop focusing on how to become lucid, stop focusing on how to believe you are a master lucid dreamer, just focus on what you want to do in your dream. Like for me, my goal is to go to this place again.
> Focus completely on what you want to do, at least for now. We are just experimenting to find out if it works for you, because obviously the regular way just isn't working. When you are going to do a lucid, when your in your bed don't even think about how your going to be aware in the dream. Only thing you should be focusing on is what you want to happen when you are dreaming.



Sounds good, I'll give it a go.  :smiley:

----------


## SilverBullet

> Sounds good, I'll give it a go.



And if you can, I would wake up every 2 hours If you really want a lucid dream.

----------


## vusiliyk

THe art of dreaming is one of the most interesting books ever. I too reccomend it.

----------


## rynkrt3

> THe art of dreaming is one of the most interesting books ever. I too reccomend it.



What was it about?

----------


## vusiliyk

> What was it about?



Its a book about a guy who goes to learn about dreaming from an indian. He starts doing all sorts of crazy things in his dreams and going into wierd dimensions, and some of it effects his real life in a very odd way. You just have to read it. Dont skip the first 2 chapters. Even they are somewhat dull, they are important.

----------


## timujin

So, this technique is all about convincing yourself and nothing more to get an LD? Or should it be combined with other techniques?

----------


## rynkrt3

> So, this technique is all about convincing yourself and nothing more to get an LD? Or should it be combined with other techniques?



Basically, this technique is just "Knowing" you will lucid dream, and doing absolutely nothing else. It has yet to do anything for me, but apparently for silverbullet and a few others it works wanders.

----------


## Avalanche

For beginners it is often the best way, but thats VERY beginners, people who just found out about this stuff, like yesterday. Where the idea is still fresh in their minds and they have not even read anything remotely related to failures or mistakes that can happen.

For this method to work, you need to be convinced you can do it. You can't be just thinking it, you have to feel it, and feel the feeling of knowing you can. But if you have doubt baggage it won't work.

----------


## SilverBullet

> So, this technique is all about convincing yourself and nothing more to get an LD? Or should it be combined with other techniques?



Almost, but not exactly. Basically, it's setting your intent on lucid dreaming.

----------


## Ctharlhie

I'm sure you've already been asked this, and likely in this thread, but how _do_ you set your intent? So far I've only put belief into this and that hasn't worked to well  :tongue2:  I don't think you explicitly mentioned it in the first post.

----------


## Avalanche

> I'm sure you've already been asked this, and likely in this thread, but how _do_ you set your intent? So far I've only put belief into this and that hasn't worked to well  I don't think you explicitly mentioned it in the first post.



This. What is intent and what is not?

----------


## Ctharlhie

Is it the difference between believing, and knowing?

----------


## Avalanche

I believe in the sun. I also know there is a sun. Is there any difference between those and intent Silver?

----------


## SilverBullet

Ok, it's a bit difficult to explain, but here goes. It isn't exactly that simple to explain intent. Here is a quote directly from what I learned intent from, the carlos castaneda books.

"My steps and yours are guided by infinity. The circumstances that seem to be ruled by chance are in essence ruled by the active side of infinity: intent. What put you and me together was the intent of infinity. It is impossible to determine what this intent of infinity is, yet it is there, as palpable as you and I are. Sorcerers say that it is a tremor in the air. The advantage of sorcerers is to know that the tremor in the air exists, and to acquiesce to it without any further ado. For sorcerers, there's no pondering, wondering, or speculating. They know that all they have is the possibility of merging with the intent of infinity, and they just do it". -Don Juan

Intent is the force that runs and is reality itself. The easiest thing you can effect with your intent, is yourself. I learned to use my intent to become lucid in a dream. And that's exactly what happens when I dream. I don't become lucid because I noticed something was weird, I just, BECOME lucid out of no where. One way to set your intent is first shutting off your thoughts completely, at least for an instant, and feel that emotion of wanting to lucid dream.

Here's one more quote: "In the universe there is an unmeasurable, indescribable force which sorcerers call intent. Absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link. Sorcerers, warriors, are concerned with discussing, understanding, and employing that connecting link. They are especially concerned with cleaning it of the numbing effects brought about by the ordinary concerns of their everyday lives. Sorcery at this level could be defined as the procedure of cleaning one's connecting link to intent."

----------


## timujin

Man, this post made me sure that technique is a crap. I'd better stick to ADA.

----------


## Avalanche

So it's more wanting to a point where you know you will achieve something, over than hoping or being really determined?

----------


## SilverBullet

> Man, this post made me sure that technique is a crap. I'd better stick to ADA.



Hehe, yeah I thought that would happen.

Oh yeah I want to mention one more thing, here is something Bruce Lee wrote to himself before he got famous.



Also, origami, not really. It's wanting without really wanting. It's wanting without the THOUGHT of wanting.

----------


## Avalanche

I get the feeling there is something to this, but it's hard to grasp. Could you try a different take on explaining it?

----------


## Ctharlhie

The majority of lucids I've had so far were out of nowhere, no dream signs, no reality checks, there was no dream before my lucidity.

Also, cool story, my girlfriend is a life-long natural lucid dreamer, I asked her how I could lucid dream like her, she said 'don't think about it'.

----------


## SilverBullet

> I get the feeling there is something to this, but it's hard to grasp. Could you try a different take on explaining it?



There is not really another way I can explain it. The human language is limited you know. Hahah

----------


## Avalanche

> The majority of lucids I've had so far were out of nowhere, no dream signs, no reality checks, there was no dream before my lucidity.
> 
> Also, cool story, my girlfriend is a life-long natural lucid dreamer, I asked her how I could lucid dream like her, she said 'don't think about it'.



She would say that. She doesn't as she is a natural. That doesn't mean you can become a natural or get lucids more often by doing the same. Thats like asking a pro tennis player how to play tennis well. What she said is the equivalent of "Just play the game, don't try so hard".

@Silverbullet Please try, you are so confident in your abilities yet you are reluctant to a point where you don't tell anyone about it. You give really crypitc and hard to understand explainations but then say you can't explain it more.

----------


## timujin

SilverBullet, if you get such results by sheer intention, then you ARE natural. You didn't convince yourself that you are. What you offer isn't a technique, it's just sort of aid to LDing.

----------


## SilverBullet

> She would say that. She doesn't as she is a natural. That doesn't mean you can become a natural or get lucids more often by doing the same. Thats like asking a pro tennis player how to play tennis well. What she said is the equivalent of "Just play the game, don't try so hard".
> 
> @Silverbullet Please try, you are so confident in your abilities yet you are reluctant to a point where you don't tell anyone about it. You give really crypitc and hard to understand explainations but then say you can't explain it more.



Alright alright. Our intent is the link we have to fate. An average man barely has any control over fate and is a prisoner of it. But by using intent you control what will happen. But our regular body that is restricted by mass can not control it, only our energy body can. The energy body is the non rational body you have that you travel through dreams with. That body by itself is pure energy and appearance. It's mind isn't the same as our physical mind. The only way to isolate the energy bodies control over intent is to shut off the mind of the physical.





> SilverBullet, if you get such results by sheer intention, then you ARE natural. You didn't convince yourself that you are. What you offer isn't a technique, it's just sort of aid to LDing.



I'm not really a natural. I started like everyone else. I would say that I just got lucky on how my turn of events went and I learned what I did.

----------


## Avalanche

> SilverBullet, if you get such results by sheer intention, then you ARE natural. You didn't convince yourself that you are. What you offer isn't a technique, it's just sort of aid to LDing.



Not really he isn't. He is not a natural, natural is when you don't even try. If Silverbullet just laid back to let the LD's roll in they would stop I would think. He needs to keep his intent going.

Whatever that is.

----------


## Ctharlhie

You forget that at the end of the day that lucid dreaming is a form of consciousness. We're all pros at being conscious, we're conscious from an early age and we do it almost all the time, without even thinking about it. You're better at being conscious than Nadal, Federer, Djokavich etc. are at tennis  :tongue2:  So is there so much a technique to be honed here as there is a mindset to be unlocked? If any pro tennis player thought hard enough that they couldn't play tennis, then they wouldn't be able to. That's the situation that we face, we are all very capable of nightly lucidity but we face so much literature on the internet and in books that make out that lucid dreaming is a difficult task (even if that wasn't the intention).

'What she said is the equivalent of "Just play the game, don't try so hard".'

On one level, that is what she said, just do it. If we are all so capable, surely we do need to 'just do it' and stop letting our expectations inhibiting us. And isn't that the whole point of this guide?

----------


## Avalanche

So intent is just will and immense wanting, but through the body we have in dreams? Can you suggest ways to make that body have intent?

----------


## rynkrt3

> SilverBullet, if you get such results by sheer intention, then you ARE natural. You didn't convince yourself that you are. What you offer isn't a technique, it's just sort of aid to LDing.



I'm with this guy.  There is a reason that this technique has worked so well for.. 1 person, and that person is Silverbullet.  If this "Technique" was so great and awesome, and it worked so well, then it would have much much much more attention.

----------


## Avalanche

@Ctharlhie So what you say is that lucid dreaming is so easy, we can all just set our minds to it and do it, but the little thoughts of it being hard hold us back?

In that case lucid dreaming in itself becomes hard, and the original term for it is now invalid. No two ways about it. Someone started a chain reaction after saying lucid dreaming was hard, and thus it was hard. So now what?

Unless you can wipe all traces of text that say it is hard from the internet, lucid dreaming will always have that hint of toughness and difficulty about it.

----------


## Avalanche

> I'm with this guy.  There is a reason that this technique has worked so well for.. 1 person, and that person is Silverbullet.  If this "Technique" was so great and awesome, and it worked so well, then it would have much much much more attention.



It would have more attention if it was an actual thing. Right now it is still up in the air for us, unexplained and hard to grasp. I don't doubt that there is nothing, but right now all I see is a lot of "um.. well... It's like... uh.."

----------


## SilverBullet

> I'm with this guy.  There is a reason that this technique has worked so well for.. 1 person, and that person is Silverbullet.  If this "Technique" was so great and awesome, and it worked so well, then it would have much much much more attention.



It just depends on whether the person understands it and uses that information correctly or not, which a lot of people have trouble doing.

----------


## Ctharlhie

A model of psychology, psychodynamics (one that lends itself readily to dreaming, Freud pretty much started the psychodynamic approach) theorises that we all have Schemas. That is, an idea of something that is based upon all our knowledge and our expectations of something. So your schema for your mother (hypothetical example) is a woman who is loving and caring. Your schema for sky-diving is that it would be a terrifying but exhilarating experience, those are your expectations.

Your schema for lucid dreaming is that very few people can do it, and that it's difficult. But we can change our schemas, as they are based on our expectations, just change those expectations. One of the best guides that far to few people here on dream views have been fortunate to read is by Billybob, he discusses how we are held back by our schemas. http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/master...-dreams-48095/

----------


## Avalanche

Ok, clearly this technique works for Silverbullet, either that or he is a natural, but he already said his LD's are due to this method, well most of them or whatever.

The problem we face with this is because he can't describe it to us well, unlike other methods we can just read in the wiki.

From what I have gathered so far is that we need to set some serious want and determination into our dream bodies, as those are the shells we use when dreaming. Otherwise it's like furnishing a house that you don't live in.

Can you explain the "how to" then, above the "what is" Silverbullet?

----------


## SilverBullet

> Ok, clearly this technique works for Silverbullet, either that or he is a natural, but he already said his LD's are due to this method, well most of them or whatever.
> 
> The problem we face with this is because he can't describe it to us well, unlike other methods we can just read in the wiki.
> 
> From what I have gathered so far is that we need to set some serious want and determination into our dream bodies, as those are the shells we use when dreaming. Otherwise it's like furnishing a house that you don't live in.
> 
> Can you explain the "how to" then, above the "what is" Silverbullet?



You still don't have it right. It's not exactly wanting or having full determination.

It's more of the emotion of wanting something without the physical thought of it. Physical thoughts are a barrier. But for your intent to be strong you need to cleanse the link with intent.
The effects that have messed up our link is our daily lives. We need to remove our bonds with the average human condition. Here is a way in doing that called controlled folly: 

"Controlled folly is the art of controlled deception or the art of pretending to be thoroughly immersed in the action at hand--pretending so well no one could tell it from the real thing. Controlled folly is not an outright deception but a sophisticated, artistic way of being separated from everything while remaining an integral part of everything. Controlled folly is an art. "-Don Juan

Hah, sounds similar to ADA doesn't it, yet it's much more different. I actually tend to do that sometimes.
Oh and also, one of the HUGEST things that blocks us in the path of knowledge is self importance.

----------


## Avalanche

That sounds similar to a point. But this Don Juan character is your problem I think. You quote him, we don't understand, you quote him again. Even if you just give your own advice it is always put together with words and meaning by him.

Can we get the 100% original Silverbullet take on this? And leave out the big words and metaphors this time, I don't have time to sift through something when I could easily read about plain and simple if it had a wiki.

----------


## Avalanche

> Your schema for lucid dreaming is that very few people can do it, and that it's difficult. But we can change our schemas, as they are based on our expectations, just change those expectations. One of the best guides that far to few people here on dream views have been fortunate to read is by Billybob, he discusses how we are held back by our schemas. http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/master...-dreams-48095/



Now this is comprehensive and well explained. It gives me a new perspective on lucid dreaming. It's funny how he was able to put key to screen and describe it, yet Silverbullet you still cannot get the message across to someone as dull as me. I got it from this guy, why not from you?

----------


## SilverBullet

> That sounds similar to a point. But this Don Juan character is your problem I think. You quote him, we don't understand, you quote him again. Even if you just give your own advice it is always put together with words and meaning by him.
> 
> Can we get the 100% original Silverbullet take on this? And leave out the big words and metaphors this time, I don't have time to sift through something when I could easily read about plain and simple if it had a wiki.



Well, I'm quoting him because I'd say pretty much the same thing as him. He just explains it better than I.

Intent isn't something that can be explained easily. It's like trying to explain what a tree is to you. I could talk about it but what I'm saying isn't exactly what it is. To truly know what a tree is you have to experience it, see it. Everyone has seen a tree, but not many people have experienced intent. It's like trying to explain to a blind person what the color blue is. So maybe now you see why it's so hard to explain?

I'd say my "take" on intent is that it is a driving force that exists, like gravity, but we can control it if you know how.





> Now this is comprehensive and well explained. It gives me a new perspective on lucid dreaming. It's funny how he was able to put key to screen and describe it, yet Silverbullet you still cannot get the message across to someone as dull as me. I got it from this guy, why not from you?



What he explained is within the physical. And it is only a small part of my technique. Intent is so simple yet INFINITELY complex.

----------


## Avalanche

What he explained is within the physical. And it is only a small part of my technique. Intent is so simple yet INFINITELY complex.

Yet you never really try. I keep asking for better and less elaborate explainations, yet all you come up with is another quote or another line saying how difficult it is. That's what you did just now.
You listened to what I had to say, then you affirm that Don Juan can say it better than you, even though I, and we, keep saying it is still unclear, and then you go on to stress how complicated it is to describe.

I'm not having a go at you, like you don't want anyone to know how this works or you enjoy messing people about, that's absurd.
I'm just saying you only say your way of explaining it, that, or Don Juan's way.

----------


## SilverBullet

> What he explained is within the physical. And it is only a small part of my technique. Intent is so simple yet INFINITELY complex.
> 
> Yet you never really try. I keep asking for better and less elaborate explainations, yet all you come up with is another quote or another line saying how difficult it is. That's what you did just now.
> You listened to what I had to say, then you affirm that Don Juan can say it better than you, even though I, and we, keep saying it is still unclear, and then you go on to stress how complicated it is to describe.
> 
> I'm not having a go at you, like you don't want anyone to know how this works or you enjoy messing people about, that's absurd.
> I'm just saying you only say your way of explaining it, that, or Don Juan's way.



Of course I try, I'm trying very hard. I really want you to know what intent is.

Ok, once again I'll try. There is no other way I can possibly explain intent.

Everything is created by intent and is driven by intent. Existence is intent. Time is intent. It is there, It's everything and nothing. Intent is the thing that connects everything together and allows it to interact. The average man can only barely scratch the surface of intent. It is extremely abstract.

----------


## rynkrt3

I'll tell you what intent is.

something that is intended;  purpose; design; intention: The original intent of the committee was to raise funds.

----------


## SilverBullet

> I'll tell you what intent is.
> 
> something that is intended;  purpose; design; intention: The original intent of the committee was to raise funds.



That isn't exactly the intent I'm talking about. I'm talking about a sorcerers definition of intent. Intention and intent are 2 completely different things.

----------


## Avalanche

> I'll tell you what intent is.
> 
> something that is intended;  purpose; design; intention: The original intent of the committee was to raise funds.



I would agree but apparently that doesn't fully describe intent in this sense, as you can see from my attempts .

----------


## SilverBullet

The only way I can get you to experience "intent" is to get you to do it indirectly. That is the purpose of the original post.

----------


## rynkrt3

Intent is the reason "it" is "it"  Intent is the driving force behind every thing ever done.

----------


## Avalanche

Intent is abstract?

It is an idea? An explanation for something that doesn't exist, is "everything and nothing". Thats a paradox, not an explanation. So far you have stressed successfully how difficult it is to explain, yet when you do try to explain it, you give a paradox and again say how difficult it is.

This is not a technique it seems, it's an idea that has developed so far into your head that it's lost it's foundation and is now in fact, up in the air.

A method is not a method if it cannot be taught. A technique is not a technique if it is everything and nothing and totally indescribable. Trees are indescribable, blue is indescribable.

----------


## SilverBullet

> Intent is the reason "it" is "it"  Intent is the driving force behind every thing ever done.



And that has happened or will ever happen.

----------


## SilverBullet

> Intent is abstract?
> 
> It is an idea? An explanation for something that doesn't exist, is "everything and nothing". Thats a paradox, not an explanation. So far you have stressed successfully how difficult it is to explain, yet when you do try to explain it, you give a paradox and again say how difficult it is.
> 
> This is not a technique it seems, it's an idea that has developed so far into your head that it's lost it's foundation and is now in fact, up in the air.
> 
> A method is not a method if it cannot be taught. A technique is not a technique if it is everything and nothing and totally indescribable. Trees are indescribable, blue is indescribable.



I guess you could say this in an anti-method for lucid dreaming. Like I said, I don't do much to lucid dream except simply set my intent on it.

Oh and your right about it being an idea being so farly developed in my head that "it's lost it's foundation and is now in fact, up in the air."

If you go towards the path of knowledge you will find that you feel you are going off the deep end. But for a sorcerer that is alright.

----------


## Avalanche

> Intent is the reason "it" is "it"  Intent is the driving force behind every thing ever done.



Yet another circle. So I read that and go; "So intent is what makes us want to do something, we want to do something so we have that driving force"

But then "That isn't exactly the intent I'm talking about. I'm talking about a sorcerers definition of intent. Intention and intent are 2 completely different things."

This is a paradox to me.

----------


## SilverBullet

> Yet another circle. So I read that and go; "So intent is what makes us want to do something, we want to do something so we have that driving force"
> 
> But then "That isn't exactly the intent I'm talking about. I'm talking about a sorcerers definition of intent. Intention and intent are 2 completely different things."
> 
> This is a paradox to me.



It's a part of what intent is. It is the driving force of everything we do, but it is also the driving force of everything that happens, happened, or ever will happen. Regardless if it is a human doing or not.

----------


## rynkrt3

> Yet another circle. So I read that and go; "So intent is what makes us want to do something, we want to do something so we have that driving force"
> 
> But then "That isn't exactly the intent I'm talking about. I'm talking about a sorcerers definition of intent. Intention and intent are 2 completely different things."
> 
> This is a paradox to me.



My intention was to lucid dream every night.
MY intent is to recognize when I'm dreaming.

They are the same thing.

What Silver is trying to say is that his will and intent to lucid dream is so strong that nothing else is required.

----------


## SilverBullet

Oh and origami, what you said about it being a circle. Many things are paradoxes and a continuous circle. Lucid dreaming itself is a circle, we are unconscious yet we are conscious, we actively create and perceive what we see in dreams.

----------


## Avalanche

So we go back to the dictionary definition then? 

I want to become lucid so much, that I just will, I made up my mind.
I will become lucid, I am determined.
The purpose of sleep is to lucid dream, so I will.
Dreams are designed to be lucid is, so I know I will, that's what I will do.

So equally all these are true as well then?

----------


## SilverBullet

> So we go back to the dictionary definition then? 
> 
> I want to become lucid so much, that I just will, I made up my mind.
> I will become lucid, I am determined.
> The purpose of sleep is to lucid dream, so I will.
> Dreams are designed to be lucid is, so I know I will, that's what I will do.
> 
> So equally all these are true as well then?



Yes, it is an indirect approach at using intent.

----------


## Avalanche

So what I just said was right then? Wanting, will, believing in the purpose and knowing/believing that dreams are designed to be lucid is what intent is?

They are all the same word more or less, under the authority of the dictionary, so that's what intent is then?

What we were all saying before? While you were over complicating it? Or are you going to string another paradox on me to try to explain it, like you did here:

"Oh and origami, what you said about it being a circle. Many things are paradoxes and a continuous circle. Lucid dreaming itself is a circle, we are unconscious yet we are conscious, we actively create and perceive what we see in dreams."

----------


## SilverBullet

> So what I just said was right then? Wanting, will, believing in the purpose and knowing/believing that dreams are designed to be lucid is what intent is?
> 
> They are all the same word more or less, under the authority of the dictionary, so that's what intent is then?
> 
> What we were all saying before? While you were over complicating it? Or are you going to string another paradox on me to try to explain it, like you did here:
> 
> "Oh and origami, what you said about it being a circle. Many things are paradoxes and a continuous circle. Lucid dreaming itself is a circle, we are unconscious yet we are conscious, we actively create and perceive what we see in dreams."



*sigh* oh man you still don't understand. No I did not over complicate it. In fact I under-complicated it. " Wanting, will, believing in the purpose and knowing/believing that dreams are designed to be lucid is what intent is?" like I said it is only an indirect approach if you see it that way. It's not truly what intent is but by doing that you can indirectly use intent. Which means you're using it but not exactly knowing what it is.

Here is the final thing I will say about what the sorcerers definition of intent is because I feel as if your just fucking with me:

Intent is everything, and it controls everything.

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## Avalanche

So your version of intent is "the intention to lucid dream". A paradox in itself that describes itself without saying anything.

Intent itself was a paradox all along, an up in the air idea that needs to be up in the air, to define itself, and separate itself from similar meanings which change it to be indirect.

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## SilverBullet

> So your version of intent is "the intention to lucid dream". A paradox in itself that describes itself without saying anything.
> 
> Intent itself was a paradox all along, an up in the air idea that needs to be up in the air, to define itself, and separate itself from similar meanings which change it to be indirect.



Heh, don juan said to carlos castaneda that if he tried to explain intent he would just be going around in circles.

Yes, to the rational mind, intent is a paradox.

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## Avalanche

Techniques cannot be followed if not understood.
Understanding comes from affirmation.
Affirmation is made from facts and attributes.
Facts come from things which are.

Paradoxes are and are not.

This method shouldn't work, unless you are holding back on something here. Obviously not on purpose though.

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## SilverBullet

> Techniques cannot be followed if not understood.
> Understanding comes from affirmation.
> Affirmation is made from facts and attributes.
> Facts come from things which are.
> 
> Paradoxes are and are not.
> 
> This method shouldn't work, unless you are holding back on something here. Obviously not on purpose though.



Techniques CAN be followed even if you don't understand them, 
say, you know how to use a computer, but you don't know how exactly the computer does what it does.

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## Avalanche

That's how to operate something. I know that if I press this key a letter will come up, etc etc. 

If you blindly try to follow a technique then it wont work. Like say someone told me the basics of WBTB: Get up at night, wake up your brain, then go back to sleep into a REM.

Now I could do that at 2am and only stay up for 5 seconds. That wouldn't work because I didn't understand the rest of the method. 

I don't understand the rest of this method and it seems less and less worth it the more time I spend on it. Is it just you who can do this or how many other people are able and understanding of this method?

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## SilverBullet

> That's how to operate something. I know that if I press this key a letter will come up, etc etc. 
> 
> If you blindly try to follow a technique then it wont work. Like say someone told me the basics of WBTB: Get up at night, wake up your brain, then go back to sleep into a REM.
> 
> Now I could do that at 2am and only stay up for 5 seconds. That wouldn't work because I didn't understand the rest of the method. 
> 
> I don't understand the rest of this method and it seems less and less worth it the more time I spend on it. Is it just you who can do this or how many other people are able and understanding of this method?



If you don't want to do it then don't do it, I'm not forcing you.

I'm not going to try to explain this to you any further, it's just a waste of energy.

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## rynkrt3

> That's how to operate something. I know that if I press this key a letter will come up, etc etc. 
> 
> If you blindly try to follow a technique then it wont work. Like say someone told me the basics of WBTB: Get up at night, wake up your brain, then go back to sleep into a REM.
> 
> Now I could do that at 2am and only stay up for 5 seconds. That wouldn't work because I didn't understand the rest of the method. 
> 
> I don't understand the rest of this method and it seems less and less worth it the more time I spend on it. Is it just you who can do this or how many other people are able and understanding of this method?



As far as I know, this only works for silver.

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## Avalanche

Oh really? So this idea he has only works for him? If thats the case...

Then you have an idea of how you become lucid. You are explaining you're own experiences. This is not a how to or a way of understanding. It clearly isn't for me anyway. This is you putting key to screen how it went for you, and anyones attempts at understanding never match up because we are not you. 

This whole thing was a waste of time for me. I was never going to understand this, understand your head. Sure, the idea can be understanded, in the same way as a computer, but it can't be "understanded", because we cannot read your mind. It's a paradox of understanding.

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## Ctharlhie

Read the whole thread, guys... The first two pages have people saying how this was successful for them. Erible even said how she thought this was a great guide.

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## SilverBullet

> Oh really? So this idea he has only works for him? If thats the case...
> 
> Then you have an idea of how you become lucid. You are explaining you're own experiences. This is not a how to or a way of understanding. It clearly isn't for me anyway. This is you putting key to screen how it went for you, and anyones attempts at understanding never match up because we are not you. 
> 
> This whole thing was a waste of time for me. I was never going to understand this, understand your head. Sure, the idea can be understanded, in the same way as a computer, but it can't be "understanded", because we cannot read your mind. It's a paradox of understanding.



Don't you mean understood?

Yes, you could say this might be a waste of time and and it makes no sense, but that's what life is my friend.

You wanted to know what intent is, the only way I could do that is to show you a vague idea of it, or for you to experience it.

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## Avalanche

Thats because those people can just do. I can't, I need to understand what this is before I can even try it. But its too hard to explain to I don't get it.

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## Avalanche

> Don't you mean understood?



I cannot believe I said understanded.

What the hell.

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## rynkrt3

> Read the whole thread, guys... The first two pages have people saying how this was successful for them. Erible even said how she thought this was a great guide.



Yeah, and how many people continue to have success?

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## Avalanche

Thats it; I'm done. 

I don't even want to understand your method Silverbullet, it's over complicated. 

I'll stick with the tried and tested ones that I tried but didn't work for me.

Understanded. What the hell.

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## SilverBullet

Oh and maybe you missed the "reposted due to data loss" part. It has worked for many people. It gave many people their first LD.

Ok, but I will continue to have lucids almost every night with my method  ::D:

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## establish

This is how I lucid dream. It's very very simple but definitely not something that translates into language. 

If anyone is into law of correspondence/law of attraction, then it might be easier to say you must vibrate as one would if you were a natural lucid dreamer. You change yr identity and alter yr vibration/energy field so yr viewpoint becomes that of a natural lucid dreamer/lucid dream master. 

Its funny how it really is as easy as saying "just be a lucid dream master", but if you don't understand the intent part ... you have no hope to understand.

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## Tavasion

nice technique, silver. i like the part about you having to realize its not hard. its like when you look up side effects for a drug or pill you are going to take, see what the side effects are, then get the side effects because you expected to. if everyone says it is hard, you are going to believe its hard. we have to get away from that.

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## timujin

I read that Art of Dreaming thing a year ago, and I can say that there is 50%/50% crap and truth. I tend to believe in LD as a purely psychological/oneirological phenomena, not as such mystical thing Castaneda believed. Yes, his techniques (if you can call them so) can work, but mostly the book is an amusing  novel and nothing more.

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## Avalanche

Yeah, it's just something your brain can do for you if you work it the right way. There is no "Astral plane" or "dream body". It's all just imagination and your brain thinking you are where you are not. That's why I couldn't understand it, it doesn't make sense, only to gullible people who read something and take it as the whole truth. Placebo is all this is.

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## SilverBullet

Nah, I don't believe it because I'm gullible, I believe it because of my experiences I've had in my life. If I believed in whatever I wanted to believe I would believe in a lot of shit. The things they mention in the book really link with some things that have happened in my life. I'm not gullible in any way. I can actually be pretty skeptical about things at times. Also, 2 more lucids last night  :smiley: . I know that what I do is real, and it works. I don't care if anyone tells me otherwise.

Oh and also, I guess you _could_ call this method a placebo, a placebo is that you believe that it will work. But I am aware about it and am using it on purpose.But believing you can lucid dream is only a part of it.

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## Avalanche

I didn't mean to say YOU were gullible, I didn't mean that.

Also congrats on the two lucids last night, nice one. I actually had some pretty good and clear dreams last night after my WBTB. Thats the only method that has come anywhere close to lucid for me, I don't know why I only did it twice before.

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## Ctharlhie

I broke my dry spell last night, and the difference now is I really think I could get to the point of nightly lucids with this.
Yesterday I thought I finally knew what 'intent' was, I went to bed with this great positive feeling, I didn't think even once about lucid dreaming, I just fell asleep with a smile on my face and a feeling of great excitement. I didn't even reality check, I knew I was dreaming and that was it.

So thanks, Silverbullet.  :smiley:

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## Marsupilama

just finished reading the last couple of pages. SilverBullet, you must be the most patient person I've never met  ::bowdown::  

I totally underestimated the intent part tho...I always thought there it is something else that is keeping me from nightly lucids, but I guess I have to reconsider....

Also, the fact that it works for SilverBullet shows that it can work for everyone (you are human, right?  :tongue2: )

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## rynkrt3

> just finished reading the last couple of pages. SilverBullet, you must be the most patient person I've never met  
> 
> I totally underestimated the intent part tho...I always thought there it is something else that is keeping me from nightly lucids, but I guess I have to reconsider....
> 
> Also, the fact that it works for SilverBullet shows that it can work for everyone (you are human, right? )



Good luck if you try this "technique"

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## Avalanche

> just finished reading the last couple of pages. SilverBullet, you must be the most patient person I've never met  
> 
> I totally underestimated the intent part tho...I always thought there it is something else that is keeping me from nightly lucids, but I guess I have to reconsider....
> 
> Also, the fact that it works for SilverBullet shows that it can work for everyone (you are human, right? )



Just because one person understands something, doesn't mean everyone should be able to, or that it's correct or real. I still think this whole intent thing is an idea Silverbullet has that works for him, but it's so vague an idea that when ever I try to get more info out of him he can't explain it to me. It's a concept, not a technique.
If you think this works for you, then fine, it probably does through placebo. But all intent is is the MILD technique basically, firmly setting your mind to do something. Why he couldn't just say that straight off baffles me.

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## rynkrt3

> Just because one person understands something, doesn't mean everyone should be able to, or that it's correct or real. I still think this whole intent thing is an idea Silverbullet has that works for him, but it's so vague an idea that when ever I try to get more info out of him he can't explain it to me. It's a concept, not a technique.
> If you think this works for you, then fine, it probably does through placebo. But all intent is is the MILD technique basically, firmly setting your mind to do something. Why he couldn't just say that straight off baffles me.



Word up.

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## Avalanche

> Word up.



Brofist

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## dakotahnok

*This is a placebo that's it. 








 Originally Posted by SilverBullet


Oh and maybe you missed the "reposted due to data loss" part. It has worked for many people. It gave many people their first LD,



Haha funny. Because I remember that there was only like three pages of replies and almost all of them were gripping because you said that LDing isn't hard and that you didn't néed a dream journal. 

I have worked I insanely hard to get to where I am today and I do not respect anybody who says that lucid dreaming doesn't have to take work. 

Also I really hope that you aren't one of those people who believe that if you intend on getting a parking spot it you will get it every single time. Cause that is bs.*

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## Avalanche

I don't think he is. This is not an argument or some attempt to get this topic thrown out. I just couldn't understand the concept behind this technique, and I realize now that it shouldn't be called a technique in the first place. Not the way we know it anyway. It's Silverbullets own way of getting lucid, and it works. But in his attempt to share it with everyone, it couldn't form well enough for people such as myself to comprehend.

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## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by Origami


I don't think he is. This is not an argument or some attempt to get this topic thrown out. I just couldn't understand the concept behind this technique, and I realize now that it shouldn't be called a technique in the first place. Not the way we know it anyway. It's Silverbullets own way of getting lucid, and it works. But in his attempt to share it with everyone, it couldn't form well enough for people such as myself to comprehend.



Yeah I'm not trying to fight either. I just wanted to put my 2 cents that I think it's a placebo.*

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## Mirror

> This is a placebo that's it. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha funny. Because I remember that there was only like three pages of replies and almost all of them were gripping because you said that LDing isn't hard and that you didn't néed a dream journal. 
> 
> I have worked I insanely hard to get to where I am today and I do not respect anybody who says that lucid dreaming doesn't have to take work. 
> 
> Also I really hope that you aren't one of those people who believe that if you intend on getting a parking spot it you will get it every single time. Cause that is bs.



Man I don't like your attitude, relax. We're not all the same, if someone can have lucid dreams without a dream journal or without effort just by setting his intent and wants to share it with others you should really respect his opinion. Do we all need the same amount of time to learn maths? Or speaking a foreign language? The fact you worked insanely hard is a good thing because it means you were not so incline to lucid dreaming and that's fine, but still working hard remains your business. Oh, and don't be an hypocrite, it's pathetic, accept diversity, there's no need not to respect someone just because he can do something better than you do.

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## SilverBullet

> Yeah I'm not trying to fight either. I just wanted to put my 2 cents that I think it's a placebo.



Does it really matter if it's a placebo? If I'm getting a lucid almost every night then does it really matter? And I'm sorry if I'm offending you by having lucids easily.

Also, to origami, I don't get how you don't really understand the way I explained intent. My brother could grasp the concept easily even though he does not believe it to be real. Same with other people I've explained it to.





> But all intent is is the MILD technique basically, firmly setting your mind to do something. Why he couldn't just say that straight off baffles me.



You still don't know what intent is. Because like I said, to set your intent you need to feel the emotion of wanting to lucid dream, but without the *THOUGHT*  of it.

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## Avalanche

> You still don't know what intent is. Because like I said, to set your intent you need to feel the emotion of wanting to lucid dream, but without the *THOUGHT*  of it.



There we are.

Wanting.

What. I. Said. Before.

Why are you over complicating this, for me?

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## SilverBullet

> There we are.
> 
> Wanting.
> 
> What. I. Said. Before.
> 
> Why are you over complicating this, for me?



 *sigh* I'm not. Simply wanting is not what you do. DETAILS MATTER.
I mean really, did you actually READ what I posted?

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## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by SilverBullet


 And I'm sorry if I'm offending you by having lucids easily



I never said you offended me. I just said that unless you are a naural lucid dreaming takes skill. It pisses me off when naturals tell un naturals that lucid dreaming is easy. When it's not. 

And yes it does matter that it's a placebo, because others won't benefit off of a placebo.*

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## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by Mirror


 Oh, and don't be an hypocrite, it's pathetic, accept diversity, there's no need not to respect someone just because he can do something better than you do.



i love how you throw the hypocrite comment In there just to be an ass. Because do you even know what hypocrite means? Where was I being a hypocrite in that post?*

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## SilverBullet

> I never said you offended me. I just said that unless you are a naural lucid dreaming takes skill. It pisses me off when naturals tell un naturals that lucid dreaming is easy. When it's not. 
> 
> And yes it does matter that it's a placebo, because others won't benefit off of a placebo.



I'm not a natural, infact I've tried lucid dreaming before I joined dv, around when I was 14. I only managed to get 2 but they were very short and I didn't have any more after that.

This isn't a natural telling a non natural that it's easy. I am not a natural. I wonder how many more times I'll have to stress that.

I, AM, NOT, A, NATURAL. I simply have knowledge.

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## dakotahnok

*I'm sorry If I sound umm. Like a bitch. I Don't mean to sound like that. Just like you were having trouble explaining intent. I'm having trouble explaining my point of view.*

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## SilverBullet

> I'm sorry If I sound umm. Like a bitch. I Don't mean to sound like that. Just like you were having trouble explaining intent. I'm having trouble explaining my point of view.



It's alright bro. 

The easiest way I can explain how I become lucid is by simply feeling that emotion of awesomeness and love for lucid dreams without thinking about it.

That, is how I set my intent.

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## Avalanche

We're all good and happy now? None of us ever meant for this discussion to get so heated. 

I think we can all agree that it matters not what other people think of your idea. If it works, then it works.

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## SilverBullet

> We're all good and happy now? None of us ever meant for this discussion to get so heated. 
> 
> I think we can all agree that it matters not what other people think of your idea. If it works, then it works.



I wasn't angry in the first place I was just frustrated with trying to get you to understand it.

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## Avalanche

And I wasn't angry at all, just frustrated that you couldn't give a better explanation- because you couldn't simple as that.

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## Ctharlhie

Look guys, at the end of the day this is a techniqe. It's a specific MILD, focused on auto-suggestion, Silverbullet's "intent". Now I believe (from my own experience) that intent is... the feeling of strong emotion that you will succeed? It goes hand in hand with belief really. That's what all the stuff in the OP on 'believing you are a born lucid dreamer' is about. The 'indirect' way of getting you to feel 'intent' is the coupling of belief with an equally strong feeling of your assured success. And that's MILD. It bypasses things like recall and mantras to aim squarely at influencing the sub-conscious.

I think the only barrier here is that Silverbullet has perhaps approached this in the wrong way. The technique is solid, but the first post was controversial in calling lucidity 'easy' and claiming that you don't need to keep a sleep journal (practically blasphemy for most DVers). Also, many get turned off by the meta-physical talk of 'intent' and 'sorcerers', fate, and stuff like that. To put it in a more psychologically sound way would be auto-suggestion or, going more leftfield, the power of attraction.

What I suggest is that we all drop the bias. We all have our opinions on lucidity, and we all like to think we're right. But I think that in this case it's just a simple misunderstanding of plain Semantics (the meaning of intent, for instance) that got out of hand. None of us here are hypocrites, we're just passionate in what we believe in. Perhaps Silverbullet could look at the technique and revise it _again_ from a more psychological angle, I really do believe there is merit in this technique.  :smiley: 

/My two cents

tldr; This is MILD. Everyone stop fighting. Silverbullet this is awesome but confusing.

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## SilverBullet

> Look guys, at the end of the day this is a techniqe. It's a specific MILD, focused on auto-suggestion, Silverbullet's "intent". Now I believe (from my own experience) that intent is... the feeling of strong emotion that you will succeed? It goes hand in hand with belief really. That's what all the stuff in the OP on 'believing you are a born lucid dreamer' is about. The 'indirect' way of getting you to feel 'intent' is the coupling of belief with an equally strong feeling of your assured success. And that's MILD. It bypasses things like recall and mantras to aim squarely at influencing the sub-conscious.
> 
> I think the only barrier here is that Silverbullet has perhaps approached this in the wrong way. The technique is solid, but the first post was controversial in calling lucidity 'easy' and claiming that you don't need to keep a sleep journal (practically blasphemy for most DVers). Also, many get turned off by the meta-physical talk of 'intent' and 'sorcerers', fate, and stuff like that. To put it in a more psychologically sound way would be auto-suggestion or, going more leftfield, the power of attraction.
> 
> What I suggest is that we all drop the bias. We all have our opinions on lucidity, and we all like to think we're right. But I think that in this case it's just a simple misunderstanding of plain Semantics (the meaning of intent, for instance) that got out of hand. None of us here are hypocrites, we're just passionate in what we believe in. Perhaps Silverbullet could look at the technique and revise it _again_ from a more psychological angle, I really do believe there is merit in this technique. 
> 
> /My two cents
> 
> tldr; This is MILD. Everyone stop fighting. Silverbullet this is awesome but confusing.



Nah, in the original post I don't mention any of my beliefs. I think it's fine the way it is.

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## Singularity125

Hmm... I kinda, sorta get what you're saying SilverBullet... but I think one of the words you're looking for is doubt. You say not to let yourself think about it, because that will lead to doubt. Right? It's something I think could work, but not work well for me. I'm the analytical, cynical type. I can't even do affirmations without feeling like I'm lying to myself.

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## SilverBullet

> Hmm... I kinda, sorta get what you're saying SilverBullet... but I think one of the words you're looking for is doubt. You say not to let yourself think about it, because that will lead to doubt. Right? It's something I think could work, but not work well for me. I'm the analytical, cynical type. I can't even do affirmations without feeling like I'm lying to myself.



No doubts, but no thoughts either when setting your intent.

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## Marsupilama

haha I guess at least on some level I understood the intent part...had two lucid dreams last night  ::banana:: 





> Just because one person understands something, doesn't mean everyone should be able to, or that it's correct or real.



I was just saying that his results can be reproduced by everyone since he is human. It's not a factor of intelligence, you maybe just haven't thought about it enough or made the necessaire life experiences. Maybe someday in your life you do something and it clicks, and your like "ohhh....so that is what this guy meant with intent"...and you wont need any effort...

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## Univorsus

In respect to doubting, I think that the "don't think about it" is easier if you have practiced meditation.

And yeah, I LOVE how the so-called "scientists" or "rational skeptics" call things they cannot explain a Placebo. The concept of Placebo ASSUMES that the ability to achieve the expected result is INHERENT in the human body, so, technically Lucid Dreaming is EASY. By saying "this is placebo" you feel as if you knew a lot of psychology, but indeed you are claiming that you don't know how to explain the phenomenon with your theoretical background and that you know a word in the dictionary that 


SilverBullet is not asking you to believe. Read carefully and TRY. I've tried, and now I know that AT LEAST FOR ME this works. LD is a thing that can be experimented easily, is a natural function of the mind. BUT, achieving the relaxed flow of LDs (say, one per night) is not so easy, you have to have a strong will and avoid doubting, even the thought of avoiding doubting. You know. Meditation.

And in respect to Dream plane, Astral plane, etc... well, you cannot prove they exist or not. Anything can be proved. Not even the previous sentence. Not even the previous... (repeat until tired). 

Conclusion: experience things by yourself, it doesn't matter in what you believe (science? God?).

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## Avalanche

> And yeah, I LOVE how the so-called "scientists" or "rational skeptics" call things they cannot explain a Placebo. The concept of Placebo ASSUMES that the ability to achieve the expected result is INHERENT in the human body, so, technically Lucid Dreaming is EASY. By saying "this is placebo" you feel as if you knew a lot of psychology, but indeed you are claiming that you don't know how to explain the phenomenon with your theoretical background and that you know a word in the dictionary that



You misunderstand Placebo. It isn't a term scientists just throw at something they don't get. Placebo is when someone has an idea, and people who read it instantly believe in it and make it true for themselves. Much like god. People claim all this stuff about god which is rationally untrue, yet people want to believe it so bad that they trick themselves into making it work, when it clearly doesn't. I call this placebo because it is placebo. It's not like I can't understand this so I shun it and say it's fake or wrong or bad. Placebo is an effect, not a term for something.

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## Ctharlhie

The technique is a placebo! Well done, sir, you have finally grasped the gist of the concept 'intent'. The whole point of this technique is that you believe you will lucid dream, _which in turn induces a lucid dream_.

I said earlier that this is a MILD that is built upon auto-suggestion and subliminality, but it seems no-on paid attention. Yes it is a placebo, and like a placebo it does absolutely squat if you don't believe in it.

But how is that _not_ a credible method if it does induce lucid dreams. Yes it lacks internal validity (what can say is really causing the lucids here?) it lacks external validity (it can't be used by everyone it seems). But what method is completely reliable. 

Lucid dreaming is not a science, it is an art. There is scientific basis of how it works, but there is a scientific basis for how we see colour, and how many paintings have you seen that have been created through some kind of formula?

It is fair enough that you are skeptical, critical thinking is a _good_ thing. But now I'm getting annoyed because you choose to assume some kind of scientific high ground and then use terms that are grossly out of context. How did you expect for this to work for you, Origami? With your singularly pessimistic attitude with lucid dreaming, why would you bother with a technique that is built upon belief? It's the only thing holding you back.

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## Ctharlhie

There is scientific evidence that even neurological changes may occur with the placebo effect, sham surgery and ECTs produce much the same effect of the genuine thing, that is the power of the human mind. Let your brain induce your LDs for you.

You seem to have this misinformed sense that the placebo effect is a negative thing in all contexts.

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## Avalanche

What you think I think is incorrect. Placebo is not a method. If it was, just telling people, random people on the street that they tonight will have a lucid dream, because this this and this, you can make up all kinds of stuff to get them to believe it, and convince them they will have a lucid. Some will, if they are susceptible enough. But real methods are ways of doing things. A WBTB involves you getting up to wake up the logic center of your brain so when you go back to sleep you will or should be "awake". That's fact. That's how the brain works. Placebo, i.e. this, would go like you wake up and then go back to sleep because you can lucid dream that way the easiest. It does say how, it just says you need intent. Intent, by definition is wanting or knowing in your heart/mind you will have something, even if it's not exactly guaranteed. That is not a proper method, that is an aid at best.

I'm arguing that this is not a method, it is only placebo. I'm not saying it's placebo because I don't understand it, thats not what placebo means. Placebo cannot be a method in it's own right, as it's just belief in something. It doesn't cause anything, like a WBTB or R.C.s do. You may think it causes lucid dreams, but that's just because the mind believes they will have it, which is basically super confidence, which is a central part of lucid dreaming as a whole. This is nothing new, nothing groundbreaking. I know it was never said to be groundbreaking, but I see people worshipping this when it's little more than PLACEBO.

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## Avalanche

Now can we stop arguing please? I thought we agreed to it before, and we all settled ourselves.

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## Ctharlhie

Goddammit this still bothers me so much because there's so much confusion here.

This method is almost certainly not the placebo effect.

It's a MILD, 'intent' is auto-suggestion. It's only placebo as far as you interpret auto-suggestion as a placebo (which I don't).

Where the conclusion that the technique is a placebo arises is because many who try this fail to carry out the technique correctly, perhaps due to the ambiguous instructions. However that is an issue in _reliability_ and does not call the internal validity of the technique into question, merely the external, ecological validity (we cannot generalise the technique to all lucid dreamers).

I just had to get that out there, I'm not arguing the corner of the technique anymore, I arguing for proper analytical thinking, because the word 'placebo' is getting thrown around so damn much and it's really not that relevant.

----------


## Ctharlhie

The reason it makes no sense to label this technique as a 'placebo' is because 'placebos' are used to test the internal validity _of already standing procedures_. That's right, placebos are tools. Say we have a medicine to cure insomnia, you could say, 'but wait a sec? What if they think they will be cured and that is what causes their insomnia to vanish?' So you set up a study with an experimental group taking the meds and a control group who take the placebo. Here the 'placebo' is a tool while the 'placebo effect' is the original issue whereby the results of the med might have been psychological rather that physiological.

In a lucid dreaming analogy you could say DILDs only work because the dreamer thinks the reality check will make them lucid. So you would give them a pill that you said would cause lucidity to test this.

So to say that Silverbullet's technique is a placebo is ludicrous, of course the dreamer is going to have a dream because they THINK they will, that is the entire premise of a MILD and so the placebo effect cannot apply.

Phew...

[EDIT] I'm really not arguing about the technique, I'm arguing about the misuse of the term 'placebo' in this thread  ::lol::

----------


## Mirror

> i love how you throw the hypocrite comment In there just to be an ass. Because do you even know what hypocrite means? Where was I being a hypocrite in that post?



Yes, I know what hypocrite means, just used it in the wrong context and I apologise for that. I should have used another term.... incoherent perhaps? If you offend or provoke someone, then you can't say : but hey! I don't want to fight. If you say you don't respect someone because he says raping kids it's fine I agree with you but c'mon, is it so unbearable reading that lucid dreaming isn't that hard? You can reject this but face it, there's no special or universal training to attain lucidity, most of it depends on how determined and positive you are about it so, since no technique works for everyone this one is not an exception. It simply doesn't fit some people but it does for others. I quitted lucid dreaming for a while because I had to think about university but when I followed those few simple steps I had 7 lucid dreams in 3 days when I had 8 in two months dream journaling doing MILD etc.

----------


## Ctharlhie

^This

As I've said before, with something that is as psychological as lucid dreaming it's all based  on your schemata, if your schema for lucid dreaming is that it's difficult, then guess what? You're in for a tough time.

I'm reposting this http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/master...-dreams-48095/ because it's something everyone in this thread should read.

----------


## Avalanche

Okay, I see your point but... Placebo is the effect where if your expectations are high enough, you think you get the effects of something, and in certain subjects it can take a physiological effect, such as the insomnia pill. If you truly believe a pill will help you sleep, then almost any pill will have that effect. It won't cause you to go to sleep, you will cause yourself to go to sleep.

I don't see how this is any different. This method requires you to have intent, which is a fancy word for wanting and believing you will have a lucid, which of course is an essential part of lucid dreaming, everyone knows that. But if this method is to have intent and believe you will become lucid, and that by doing this you will become lucid (or at least should, Silverbullet never guaranteed lucidity for everyone from this method), then that in itself is placebo. People see this and think "Intent is all I need? What is intent exactly?" Silverbullet would then tell them, and they would soak it up, now knowing that having this intent they can now have an easier time having LDs, and some do, due to placebo, when in fact all it is is this method saying "Do this, have intent, and lucids come easier" (as all methods say, do this, lucidity comes easier with this. That defines a method).

My gripe with this is that it doesn't actually do anything. It's like a method saying going to sleep is a key factor to lucid dreaming, if you all go to sleep, you have a chance of getting an LD. Well, yeah, having intent and believing and being positive is a key factor in lucid dreaming. MILD and DEILD and WBTB all actually do something, like familiarizing you brain with R.C.s so you have a chance at doing them in dreams, or waking up so you fall asleep more awake right into a REM.

tl;dr This method does nothing and tells nothing new that we all don't already know. Even day old newbies will know that if you take a negative attitude you will fail.

----------


## SilverBullet

> Okay, I see your point but... Placebo is the effect where if your expectations are high enough, you think you get the effects of something, and in certain subjects it can take a physiological effect, such as the insomnia pill. If you truly believe a pill will help you sleep, then almost any pill will have that effect. It won't cause you to go to sleep, you will cause yourself to go to sleep.
> 
> I don't see how this is any different. This method requires you to have intent, which is a fancy word for wanting and believing you will have a lucid, which of course is an essential part of lucid dreaming, everyone knows that. But if this method is to have intent and believe you will become lucid, and that by doing this you will become lucid (or at least should, Silverbullet never guaranteed lucidity for everyone from this method), then that in itself is placebo. People see this and think "Intent is all I need? What is intent exactly?" Silverbullet would then tell them, and they would soak it up, now knowing that having this intent they can now have an easier time having LDs, and some do, due to placebo, when in fact all it is is this method saying "Do this, have intent, and lucids come easier" (as all methods say, do this, lucidity comes easier with this. That defines a method).
> 
> My gripe with this is that it doesn't actually do anything. It's like a method saying going to sleep is a key factor to lucid dreaming, if you all go to sleep, you have a chance of getting an LD. Well, yeah, having intent and believing and being positive is a key factor in lucid dreaming. MILD and DEILD and WBTB all actually do something, like familiarizing you brain with R.C.s so you have a chance at doing them in dreams, or waking up so you fall asleep more awake right into a REM.
> 
> tl;dr This method does nothing and tells nothing new that we all don't already know. Even day old newbies will know that if you take a negative attitude you will fail.



You midas well call all techniques placebos then.

----------


## Ctharlhie

You're explaining to me what a placebo is when I've made several posts that demonstrate that the placebo effect really has nothing to with what I will from now on refer to as the 'Intent Method'. Not only this but you back your assertions  that actually contradict your own argument. I'm sorry to make such a point of this, but I think the Intent Method has potential and it's unfair to handicap the thread with all this unfounded stigma.





> Placebo is the effect where if your expectations are high enough, you think you get the effects of something, and in certain subjects it can take a physiological effect, such as the insomnia pill. If you truly believe a pill will help you sleep, then almost any pill will have that effect. It won't cause you to go to sleep, you will cause yourself to go to sleep.



Correct. But this is almost word for word the analogy I used to show how the placebo effect does not apply to the Intent Method.





> People see this and think "Intent is all I need? What is intent exactly?" Silverbullet would then tell them, and they would soak it up, now knowing that having this intent they can now have an easier time having LDs, and some do, due to placebo, when in fact all it is is this method saying "Do this, have intent, and lucids come easier" (as all methods say, do this, lucidity comes easier with this. That defines a method).



Ah, now this is interesting. I see where you are coming from here. Are you directly comparing intent to a placebo 'lucidity pill'? If so, I think that is very misleading, would you compare mantras to a placebo pill? They operate on the same basis as this concept of 'Intent'.
What's more, are the people who succeed and the people who fail differing in how they are practising the technique? Or does the difference in belief cause the differing results? Here we are coming closer to the heart of the issue. If the foundation of a technique is belief and confidence then how can you claim that there is a placebo effect at all? It may be that a successful dreamer has practised the technique correctly, or they were successful because they believed it would work. But since the technique IS belief and the placebo effect IS ALSO belief; the two seem to cancel each other out. This is an example of non-falsifiability as it is impossible to interpret whether the dependent variable (the result) is caused by the independent variable of intent or the extraneous variable of the placebo effect.





> My gripe with this is that it doesn't actually do anything. It's like a method saying going to sleep is a key factor to lucid dreaming, if you all go to sleep, you have a chance of getting an LD.



As it happens, sleep _is_ a key factor, you do need to be asleep and dreaming, in that state you have everything you need at your disposal.





> *MILD* and DEILD and *WBTB* all actually do something, like familiarizing you brain with *R.C*.s so you have a chance at doing them in dreams, or waking up so you fall asleep more awake right into a REM.



Are you lucid dreaming because of the mantras, the time you spent up and performing R.Cs or are you lucid dreaming because you expected to? That is placebo effect in action, see how you backed you argument with evidence that actually contradicts you. The techniques of MILD, DILD and WBTB are actually far more prone to placebo effects than Intent which expressly tells you to believe, and most methods state you need belief anyway, how far do you think conventional methods are placebos now? Are they 'actually doing something'?





> tl;dr This method does nothing and tells nothing new that we all don't already know. Even day old newbies will know that if you take a negative attitude you will fail



I apologise for always saying this but you have been guilty of a negative attitude  :smiley: 

I'm just trying to look at this from a purely psychological perspective. If you're all going to start throwing psychology around then I'm going to have to get involved  :tongue2: 

Bloody hell that's a long post  ::lol::

----------


## SilverBullet

> *text*



Well said.

----------


## Avalanche

"I apologise for always saying this but you have been guilty of a negative attitude"

I never said I wasn't lol.

Why does having a go at psychology make you a little upset, or want to get properly involved?
You're not one of those people who thinks that since they looked up a few books on it they are suddenly professional psychologists and can read people?

"Are you lucid dreaming because of the mantras, the time you spent up and performing R.Cs or are you lucid dreaming because you expected to?" 
Jokes on you, I haven't even had a lucid yet, so there.

I'd hate for this whole argument, yes it's an argument now, it's not a discussion anymore, to get more out of hand or personal. 
Can we just drop it without having to fuss over it anymore, without either of us coming back to having the last word in?

----------


## SilverBullet

> "I apologise for always saying this but you have been guilty of a negative attitude"
> 
> I never said I wasn't lol.
> 
> Why does having a go at psychology make you a little upset, or want to get properly involved?
> You're not one of those people who thinks that since they looked up a few books on it they are suddenly professional psychologists and can read people?
> 
> "Are you lucid dreaming because of the mantras, the time you spent up and performing R.Cs or are you lucid dreaming because you expected to?" 
> Jokes on you, I haven't even had a lucid yet, so there.
> ...



Arguments can be a learning experience, its fine to have one. If the information in our mind wasn't challenged every now and then we wouldn't be that smart now would we.
also, 1 ld last night  :smiley:

----------


## Ctharlhie

> I'd hate for this whole argument, yes it's an argument now, it's not a discussion anymore, to get more out of hand or personal. 
> Can we just drop it without having to fuss over it anymore, without either of us coming back to having the last word in?



I'm not trying to make this personal and I'm not trying to get the last word in. Thank you for being patient and not letting this devolve into a shouting match, you called it an argument but that's not necessarily a bad thing, this could have been a lot uglier.





> Why does having a go at psychology make you a little upset, or want to get properly involved?
> You're not one of those people who thinks that since they looked up a few books on it they are suddenly professional psychologists and can read people?



Well people weren't having a go at psychology as much as they were twisting it to their viewpoint. It doesn't upset me so much as I wanted to bring a bit of psychological objectivity to the table.  
I should think that I would want to get involved in a discussion on experimental validity if I'm going to be studying psychology at University.





> Arguments can be a learning experience, its fine to have one



 ::lol::  call me a geek but I rather enjoyed it, it was a learning experience.  :smiley:

----------


## SilverBullet

> call me a geek but I rather enjoyed it



same here. Doesn't sound like he's coming back though. :/

----------


## Avalanche

Hold on, give me some time, I do other things than lurk you know!
It was fun that it wasn't a spelling mistake ridden caps lock shouting match between some 12 year old and a basement dwelling neckbeard.

----------


## Ctharlhie

> Hold on, give me some time, I do other things than lurk you know!
> It was fun that it wasn't a spelling mistake ridden caps lock shouting match between some 12 year old and a basement dwelling neckbeard.



 Hahaha, yeah. You were a worthy opponent, Origami  :smiley:  now let's see Rynk3rt and Dakotahnok take me on  ::evil::

----------


## Avalanche

Oh they are good, but it doesn't all hinge on one aspect of a person to win a fight. 

Lol, that sounded deep.

----------


## rynkrt3

I have nothing to say about any of this.  Im just a spectator now.

----------


## Avalanche

Game's over, we all won.

----------


## Erii

I just read through most of this, you guys...really?
Stop it. Stop now, there is no need for so much discussion and question over this, stop thinking so hard, just do. Stop questioning yourself and people around you and just _know_. You all are the demise of yourself it seems...

----------


## SilverBullet

> I just read through most of this, you guys...really?
> Stop it. Stop now, there is no need for so much discussion and question over this, stop thinking so hard, just do. Stop questioning yourself and people around you and just _know_. You all are the demise of yourself it seems...



I giggled. Well, I'm fine, I've been lucid dreaming and always will.

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by erible


I just read through most of this, you guys...really?
Stop it. Stop now, there is no need for so much discussion and question over this, stop thinking so hard, just do. Stop questioning yourself and people around you and just know. You all are the demise of yourself it seems...



I agree. There is always room for argument and misunderstanding. But most of this discussion is just running around in circles.*

----------


## SilverBullet



----------


## Ctharlhie

> 



 Damn straight!
@Rynk3rt and Dakotahnok; ohhh, you guys're no fun  :tongue2:  But I'm guessing you're still opposed to the technique?  :wink2:  Ah well, each to their own. 
@Erible; Over-analysis is my weakness ^^;

----------


## Erii

> I giggled. Well, I'm fine, I've been lucid dreaming and always will.



apparently you "left"





> I agree. There is always room for argument and misunderstanding. But most of this discussion is just running around in circles.



 :woohoo: 





> @Erible; Over-analysis is my weakness ^^;



silleh

----------


## Marsupilama

So I got another lucid tonight, my intent helped me to question the environment. The dream was short tho as my lucidity wasn't very high and my instincts took over...but that doesn't really matter, I never had 3 lucid dreams in 2 days so far  ::banana:: 

So what happened?

I read through the whole discussion again yesterday since I didn't felt like I understanded ( :wink2: ) all of it the night before. Please correct me if I'm wrong SilverBullet but this is what I think you think is intent  :Cheeky: 

The directions you give in the first post are just an indirect way of using intent. They're basically the controlled folly thing you metioned, right? So all I have to do to cleanse the link to intent, is free my physical mind and try to 'want' to lucid dream with my energy mind?! 

I thought about how to do that last night, since I'm not (yet) into meditation at all, so what I did was the following: I took out my ipod and played a track I really love, a track I emerge in, which is the closest I can get to not thinking. Then I tried to feel my desire for lucid dreaming. I couldn't maintain it very long but hey, it seemed to work. Maybe it was a normal DILD tho, cause I realized something was strange, I didn't just get lucid like you do or like I did the night before...

----------


## SilverBullet

> So I got another lucid tonight, my intent helped me to question the environment. The dream was short tho as my lucidity wasn't very high and my instincts took over...but that doesn't really matter, I never had 3 lucid dreams in 2 days so far 
> 
> So what happened?
> 
> I read through the whole discussion again yesterday since I didn't felt like I understanded () all of it the night before. Please correct me if I'm wrong SilverBullet but this is what I think you think is intent 
> 
> The directions you give in the first post are just an indirect way of using intent. They're basically the controlled folly thing you metioned, right? So all I have to do to cleanse the link to intent, is free my physical mind and try to 'want' to lucid dream with my energy mind?! 
> 
> I thought about how to do that last night, since I'm not (yet) into meditation at all, so what I did was the following: I took out my ipod and played a track I really love, a track I emerge in, which is the closest I can get to not thinking. Then I tried to feel my desire for lucid dreaming. I couldn't maintain it very long but hey, it seemed to work. Maybe it was a normal DILD tho, cause I realized something was strange, I didn't just get lucid like you do or like I did the night before...



Your almost right on the money, the original post isn't controlled folly. And you don't need to meditate to shut of internal dialogue. It's easier when walking around with yours eyes crossed, so you're looking at everything but not a particular thing.

Everything else? Well, nice job! Sounds like you set your intent. Even though you didn't maintain the feeling, as long as you did it for an instant, you set your intent. And if that intent is impeccable, it will happen no matter what.

----------


## Avalanche

> I read through the whole discussion again yesterday since I didn't felt like I understanded ()



>I didn't feel like I understanded
>I understanded
>understanded

Damn you.

----------


## Sheddler

I have the greatest feeling in the world that this, with apple juice, will make me lucid dream VERY frequently.

----------


## Avalanche

> I have the greatest feeling in the world that this, with apple juice, will make me lucid dream VERY frequently.



Then you will, for sure.

----------


## Colin

I've always had a problem with lucid dreaming confidence because I've tried so much without any results to speak of. Last summer I focused on lucid dreaming for a few months, but did not have a single lucid dream. Once the school year rolled around I completely gave up and stopped focusing on LD'ing. During the school year, I had two DILDs, which was cool but pissed me off at the same time because I couldnt understand how I could randomly have lucids without trying at all and then never have any when I actually try to. A few weeks ago, I started getting back into lucid dreaming and focusing a lot of time and energy into it, but I still continued to have no new LDs. A few days ago, I started trying out ADA and then last night I read this thread. Before I went to bed, I really got into the persona of being the greatest lucid dreamer in the world in hopes that it could magically help. And you know what happened? I had a lucid dream--finally! This is the first lucid dream I've had in probably like 8 months and it's the first I've ever had while I've been spending time focusing on LD'ing. Thanks for the help  :smiley:  Hopefully this will continue to help me.

----------


## SilverBullet

Good job man. Glad I could help. Also, 2 extremely vivid LDs last night.

----------


## Imbrainy

I love this way of thinking, it has gotten me all of my lucids so far, and has made my dreams more vivid! I first tried the original one you had posted on here, which worked once I think. 

But I think this technique really is the key (for me, at least). I just need to use it more lol. So thanks for posting this!

EDIT: Post 200 on this thread! haha

----------


## [email protected]

why is this not working for me?!! yet?!?!!

oh. I have to be positive. positive.. positive.... I really had LD after reading your old version of this, but now idk what the problem is, its not working (T.T)  :Oh noes: 
I know I must not say that its nor working but why not,, I let all my stresses go and trust myself as a natural Lder 
how the hell did I have LD instantly after reading this. I forgot.

----------


## SilverBullet

> why is this not working for me?!! yet?!?!!
> 
> oh. I have to be positive. positive.. positive.... I really had LD after reading your old version of this, but now idk what the problem is, its not working (T.T) 
> I know I must not say that its nor working but why not,, I let all my stresses go and trust myself as a natural Lder 
> how the hell did I have LD instantly after reading this. I forgot.



Because usually your state of mind changes after you've had the LD. I can't exactly pinpoint what it is but I think it's just that after you get a good one you get too excited about lucid dreaming.

----------


## Ctharlhie

Wait, we're not supposed to feel excited about LDing?

----------


## Marsupilama

> Because usually your state of mind changes after you've had the LD. I can't exactly pinpoint what it is but I think it's just that after you get a good one you get too excited about lucid dreaming.



What did you do about that?

----------


## [email protected]

> Because usually your state of mind changes after you've had the LD. I can't exactly pinpoint what it is but I think it's just that after you get a good one you get too excited about lucid dreaming.



I dont know how your statement works but I think you are right. so I should be calmed down all the time?? not too frustrated, not too excited?

----------


## establish

> I dont know how your statement works but I think you are right. so I should be calmed down all the time?? not too frustrated, not too excited?



If you are excited, that is telling your subconscious that you are not a natural lucid dreamer: would a natural lucid dreamer be abnormally excited about a single dream? Probably not, because if you were natural, you know you'll have another one.

----------


## SilverBullet

> Wait, we're not supposed to feel excited about LDing?



Well you can, but the side effect of being excited about lucid dreaming is thinking about it too much.

Also what establish said.

----------


## rynkrt3

I am so frustrated.  I want to learn to do this but I just don't understand how to come up with a new state of mind about lucid dreaming.  I already know its easy, I know I can do it.  I just don't get how your supposed to think your a natural when your not.

----------


## lucidadic

Finally! I think I get this whole concept now. Correct me if I am wrong silverbullet, but this technique is basically creating a schema that you can easily have lucid dreams. I think someone may have mentioned it before, I know one of the links did, but I can't reread the whole thread right now. It makes so much sense. If your subconscious thinks lucid dreaming is easy, than lucid dreaming will be easy. I won't get into schemata, you could just look it up. Hopefully, some more people can use this technique (myself included).

----------


## carlo420

yes this might be helpful, the most important thing in lucid dreaming is to not be pressure. Lucid dreaming is a desire and a want. You have to really WANT it. When you want something, your brain automatically looks for anyway possible. Its designed to do that. We have the ability to chase whatever we want! remember: it wont happen as quickly as you want.... Lucid dreaming takes training. Some people are innate to becoming lucid. its all personal factors. Another important factor is recall. whats the point of being lucid if you cant remember it? Strongly suggest exercising your recall if you dont have a very good short term memory like myself... Write down your dreams, say them out loud or record them, then re-read them before you sleep. this tells your brain that remembering dreams are important. make it seem like your life depends on remembering the dream. It will work wonders. Trust me.

----------


## starburst

This technique is awesome! All this time, I've been obsessing over reality checks and dream journaling and whatnot, but there was an easier method all along! Mind you, I'll probably keep up with the RCs and dream journal anyways, but this looks AWESOME!  ::D: 

Love that part when you said your subconscious can't tell the difference between what you're imagining and what's actually real, that's so true.  :smiley: 

Thanks!!

----------


## Darkranger85

This reminds me of a study I heard about.

It was a study on the brain and the results of the study showed that in your brain the same neurons fire when you are thinking of something, watching something, or doing that same something.

For instance the same neurons fire when someone watches someone else eat ice cream as when that person eats ice cream themselves.

So as far as I believe, this technique has scientific merit.  :smiley:

----------


## Spyder

Alright so I am also going to learn how to do this method, but I have a few questions.  I dont get the part where you dont try at all and it should just work somehow. For instance, if I was writing a paper for school and didnt know what to write, I should just do nothing and stare into space? Its so confusing :/

----------


## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by Darkranger85


This reminds me of a study I heard about.

It was a study on the brain and the results of the study showed that in your brain the same neurons fire when you are thinking of something, watching something, or doing that same something.

For instance the same neurons fire when someone watches someone else eat ice cream as when that person eats ice cream themselves.

So as far as I believe, this technique has scientific merit. 



I have to say that the ice cream was a bad example. Because if you are watching someone eat ice cream it isn't going to activate the sense of taste. So how will the same neurons fire? 

Or am I just not getting what your saying?*

----------


## Darkmatters

... Didn't you ever watch anything on The Food Network when you were hungry?   :Shades wink:

----------


## SilverBullet

Getting closer to 300 lucids. Had about 5 today, they were AWESOME.

----------


## Darkranger85

> I have to say that the ice cream was a bad example. Because if you are watching someone eat ice cream it isn't going to activate the sense of taste. So how will the same neurons fire? 
> 
> Or am I just not getting what your saying?



The neurons in your brain that fire when you eat ice cream are the same ones that fire if you are watching someone eat it. The sense of taste itself never comes into the picture.

Basically, as far as your brain is concerned, you are eating the ice cream.

And its not just an example, its how one of the tests was actually done lol.

----------


## Darkmatters

.. Your nummy neurons are firing right now...

----------


## Marsupilama

So I haven't had a lucid since, I do believe tho I set my intent back then...just need to be able to do that more effective and effortlessly!





> It's easier when walking around with yours eyes crossed, so you're looking at everything but not a particular thing.



I was thinking about that. Do you actually do that while setting your intent or was that a metaphor?

Another question, is the intent to lucid dream every night different from the intent to, let's say remembering your dreams? Because sometimes I don't remember any dream for like 3 days in a row. But I get the feeling that this is something I do subconsciously because it can be a hassle to write down long dreams all the time. What I wanted to say is that I enjoy a break sometimes  :tongue2: 

And then, after a couple of days when I feel like I've rested, I _know_ that I will remember my dreams the next morning...and I usually do.

----------


## SilverBullet

No it's not a metaphor. It's a technique for shutting off your internal dialogue. Your brain will be paying attention more to the senses and shut off your thoughts.
I got pretty good at it to the point where I almost blacked out because I wasn't breathing when I did it too long haha.

Also, I guess you could say they're different although the technique for setting the intent is the same.

----------


## Mirror

> No it's not a metaphor. It's a technique for shutting off your internal dialogue. Your brain will be paying attention more to the senses and shut off your thoughts.
> I got pretty good at it to the point where I almost blacked out because I wasn't breathing when I did it too long haha.
> 
> Also, I guess you could say they're different although the technique for setting the intent is the same.



You have just described what meditation is , it really helped me understanding what intent is about :I

----------


## Marsupilama

I was wondering SilverBullet, how do you set your intent on lucid dreaming? Like once a day or right before going to bed or for a longer time or just a short period of time or not at all?

----------


## SilverBullet

> I was wondering SilverBullet, how do you set your intent on lucid dreaming? Like once a day or right before going to bed or for a longer time or just a short period of time or not at all?



I guess you could say it's always set, in the back of my mind. Even when I'm not thinking about lucid dreaming at all.

----------


## mcwillis

> Because usually your state of mind changes after you've had the LD. I can't exactly pinpoint what it is but I think it's just that after you get a good one you get too excited about lucid dreaming.



Getting really excited before sleep was how I could guarantee a lucid in the early days.  The slightest doubt that I would'nt have a lucid would kill that excitement.  I don't think excitement is a block but in fact is an enormous asset.

----------


## SilverBullet

> Getting really excited before sleep was how I could guarantee a lucid in the early days.  The slightest doubt that I would'nt have a lucid would kill that excitement.  I don't think excitement is a block but in fact is an enormous asset.



Well, maybe for some, but not for me.

----------


## Zenithar66

I feel your guide is indeed good, but the only point i would disagree with is the dream journal. I feel if one wants to truly invest both there concious and sub-concious mind in the goal then a dream journal is vital and a must. Not to mention the fun of simply keeping one!
I mean, if you not recalling your dreams then you sure as hell wont wont recall lucids. Keeping a dream journal firmly cements that intent in your mind and gives you insight into your nightly sojourns as a bonus!

When you build up a big journal(i have nearnly 300 word pages in 3 years) you can begin conducting surveys to find out what enviroment you've been in most and use it as a dreamsign!

great post though, i know it will help many people!

----------


## SilverBullet

> I feel your guide is indeed good, but the only point i would disagree with is the dream journal. I feel if one wants to truly invest both there concious and sub-concious mind in the goal then a dream journal is vital and a must. Not to mention the fun of simply keeping one!
> I mean, if you not recalling your dreams then you sure as hell wont wont recall lucids. Keeping a dream journal firmly cements that intent in your mind and gives you insight into your nightly sojourns as a bonus!
> 
> When you build up a big journal(i have nearnly 300 word pages in 3 years) you can begin conducting surveys to find out what enviroment you've been in most and use it as a dreamsign!
> 
> great post though, i know it will help many people!



I don't use one, I have pretty good recall. I've tried using one before, it never really helped at all at it was boring writing all the stuff down.

----------


## Zenithar66

well, in my honest opinion i feel one really must keep a dream journal if you are commited to lucid dreaming. It is the basic requirment, but since you have good recall already imagine how much better it could be!

i find one of the ways to stimulate a vivid dream or to easily remember dreams is to flick through my journal at night...it gets your mind accessing a whole separate set of memories(dream ones) and thinking in a different way!

each to his own though...

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## Erii

> well, in my honest opinion i feel one really must keep a dream journal if you are commited to lucid dreaming. It is the basic requirment, but since you have good recall already imagine how much better it could be!



some people just have naturally good recall, or you can build recall and stop having to use it after a long period of time of doing so.

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## frenchblablabla

_I just thought of something that might make this method a thousand times easier than it already is, but is only for people who have already written down lucid dreams in their dream journal.

Since you basically have to trick your mind into thinking you are a master at lucid dreaming, just read through all your previous lucid dreams in your dream journal, and that will surely make you more convinced that you can lucid dream much more easily.
Feel all of those feelings that you felt after you woke up from the lucid again, just remember what it was like to have that amazing feeling of being completely aware that you were dreaming, and doing whatever you wanted.

My guess is that with all of those feelings harnessed from previous lucids, it will be much easier to feel that confidence that you WILL lucid dream._

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## Zenithar66

> I just thought of something that might make this method a thousand times easier than it already is, but is only for people who have already written down lucid dreams in their dream journal.
> 
> Since you basically have to trick your mind into thinking you are a master at lucid dreaming, just read through all your previous lucid dreams in your dream journal, and that will surely make you more convinced that you can lucid dream much more easily.
> Feel all of those feelings that you felt after you woke up from the lucid again, just remember what it was like to have that amazing feeling of being completely aware that you were dreaming, and doing whatever you wanted.
> 
> My guess is that with all of those feelings harnessed from previous lucids, it will be much easier to feel that confidence that you *WILL* lucid dream.





This is a great idea and the reason i believe it is becuase this is actaully what happened to me 3 days ago!!

It all comes down to dedication, REALLY desiring it and making it an integral part of you daily thought process, not just an abstract wish or goal, but an important event taking place at night..

anyway, the ohter night i decided to do a survey of my dream journal to see how many lucids I'd had since i started just over 3 years back..Turns out i had 23! which is more then i thougth, granted only about 6 were pure mind blowing life chanignly amazing each one was special and i was able to harness those feelings your talking about. i was getting so excited thinking back and was able to recall all the imagery from the dreams as though they were yesterday!

now, the same night i had THE BEST lucid dream i ever had(though i must practce beleiveing i am a lucid master,i really like the sound of that!).
This seems the key because i usually have my most vivid non lucid dreams AFTER spending an hour before bed reading over my dream journal!

looks like you thoughts on this matter are true!

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## SilverBullet

People seem to be confused or not reading the first post, I said a dream journal is optional, if you want to keep a dream journal do it, if you don't then don't!

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## dicci0308

SilverBullet this sounds like THE technique I have been waiting for my entire life. I have studied the subconscious mind for years now, and I fully agree with you. This should be the only technique, or can I even name this a technique, it is an attitude!, on the forum,  I am very grateful! Thanks!

Hear soon!
Dicci0308

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## BobbyLance

hmm, looks promising. Let me try this. I'll post back for any results. Hope this improves my LD numbers.

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## dicci0308

Hi Marsupilama!

Do you mean that you truly believe it, on the subconscious level? Because if you mean that, you could power this belief with selfhypnosis! Ever tried? I think I am going to power every belief listed in the tutorial. Of course with selfhypnosis! I thnk selfhypnosis us a great "helper" for this one, don't you think so?

Wish you many lucid journeys!
Dicci0308

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## Marsupilama

Nah, I haven't had the time to look into selfhypnosis. I'd probably try using the nlp angle first on changing my subconsciousness....

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## NrElAx

This is an awesome thread. Someone in the beginning of the thread said to attach the thought of lucid dreaming with an emotion. This works for me because most of my dreams are about emotional things that happen in my day. Things that I care about or worry about. So if do what this tutorial says and attach it to say excitement or even better confidence, then im more likely to have a lucid. This is what I've been doing this past week. Its been working well for me.

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## SilverBullet

Hello, just bumping this thread because there is arguing on the old one.

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## DukeDreamWalker

*Thanks for your effort and desire to help!*





> *I strongly advise you read Carlos Castaneda's "The Art of Dreaming" book if you already haven't. If it weren't for that book I wouldn't be the lucid dreamer I am now.



I have started reading Carlos Castaneda's "The Art of Dreaming" on your recommendation.  I am now about one third of the way through. Could you please give me more details as to why you feel this book is important to your lucid dreaming?  ::roll:: 

I agree with your premise that this is easy!  However, I find it much more challenging to remember my dreams when I don't keep my dream journal up.  Any non journal memory building advise?

WBTB is essential to my success (in fact that's what I am doing right now) and once I have an LD I find I can enjoy multiple LD's through "chaining" if I am careful not to move much.  But when I "chain" my memory suffers!

I prefer the dream quality of MILD's over WILD's but WILD's are more reliable for me. Your recommendation may seem better suited to MILD's.  Any ideas?

----------


## Ctharlhie

If WILDing comes easily to you I strongly advise you to develop that skill. There some oneironauts who would give their right arm to WILD with ease.

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## LucidRaider

i really wish i could do this, but i dont know how to access the strong emotion of love for lucid dreams. :/

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## SilverBullet

> i really wish i could do this, but i dont know how to access the strong emotion of love for lucid dreams. :/



 Think of all the times you became lucid, feel the feeling you had when you were lucid.

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## LucidRaider

> Think of all the times you became lucid, feel the feeling you had when you were lucid.



 But... I do, i try that... and i try to believe that lucid dreaming is easy, and that i can do it naturally, but then for some reason, when i try to believe it, .... my brain freezes, like its rejecting those thoughts ... and then i think stuff like "am i believing it too much?" and thats just ridiculous. :/... and i feel like this method is the one for me... and i need to do it...  :Sad:

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## Frenchie

Went and read art of dreaming straight after finding this and great story! silverbullet, can you personally confirm any of the more abstract parts of the book? also had an awesome flying lucid dream just last night, think i'm finally getting the hang of it!

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## NrElAx

^^ Off topic, but I like your name, frenchie lol. For some reason it makes me think of the French Connection. Im guessing your not French though because your from Australia. But you could have French in you.

And LucidRaider, I think you just have to try and get those negative thoughts and beliefs out of your mind and keep practicing. Like SilverBullet said, you just have look back at all the lucids you had and know that tonight is going to be the same as those nights. You WILL lucid tonight. There's no its, ands, or buts about it lol.

----------


## saltyseedog

I freakin love this tutorial. 

Do all this.

I add one thing.

Practice meditation daily.

It will give you more clarity of mind and help you to be more aware. And feel better.

Attitude is the most important thing.

Persist in keeping the attitude that you are a dreamer. No matter how long it takes.

----------


## SilverBullet

> Went and read art of dreaming straight after finding this and great story! silverbullet, can you personally confirm any of the more abstract parts of the book? also had an awesome flying lucid dream just last night, think i'm finally getting the hang of it!



I believe it to be true, I believe that reality is only a perception. Making this no more real or fake than your dreams.

Have you ever heard of string theory? It's the idea that reality itself is not real the way we think it is.
Infact, when they get down to the very matter that makes everything it actually defies the laws of physics. It doesn't have mass, neither is it really solid.

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## Frenchie

Thanks silver! just had another night of lucidity this is so awesome!

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## DukeDreamWalker

> I believe it to be true, I believe that reality is only a perception. Making this no more real or fake than your dreams.
> 
> Have you ever heard of string theory? It's the idea that reality itself is not real the way we think it is.
> Infact, when they get down to the very matter that makes everything it actually defies the laws of physics. It doesn't have mass, neither is it really solid.



I found that I had to painfully push myself to finish Carlos Castanedas book: The Art of Dreaming.  Initially the subject matter was some what intriguing and made me ponder the core of my belief system and internal ideas about reality, and religion, but sadly as I read on it left me hanging. I went from wondering whether or not there was some great "truth" to be learned to thinking that this is just another poorly fabricated fiction. I am left perplexed as to how this can help with my lucid dreaming practices  ::roll::

----------


## SilverBullet

> I found that I had to painfully push myself to finish Carlos Castaneda’s book: “The Art of Dreaming.”  Initially the subject matter was some what intriguing and made me ponder the core of my belief system and internal ideas about reality, and religion, but sadly as I read on it left me hanging. I went from wondering whether or not there was some great "truth" to be learned to thinking that this is just another poorly fabricated fiction. I am left perplexed as to how this can help with my lucid dreaming practices…



Alright, I'm just glad you read it, you can do whatever you want with the information you have.

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## iceTwy

It has been quite a long time I haven't had a LD. Gotta convince myself I'm a natural LDer and your method will surely work!

----------


## LucidRaider

Whats strange is the other night i was depressed and worried about this 'method', and i just sat on the floor and spoke to my subconscious aoout it..., and then i went to bed and had a lucid dream lol... and now im still stuck  xD

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## Ctharlhie

> Whats strange is the other night i was depressed and worried about this 'method', and i just sat on the floor and spoke to my subconscious aoout it..., and then i went to bed and had a lucid dream lol... and now im still stuck  xD



Give your sub-conscious pep talks each night.

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## LucidRaider

he doesn't seem to like them very much... i get the feeling that hes scared.. lol

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## Ctharlhie

This is where being able to contact your sub-conscious _in a dream_ will be really cool for you, you can just say, 'I want to be lucid like this in every dream, thanks.'

Last night as I was laying in bed I started to meditate, lying on my back, visualising blue light entering me and black light leaving me with each breath, I also imagined myself descending stairs as if to a basement, but the stairs were violet of carpet and the walls and ceiling were blue with white stars and moons shifting across it (to stop it seeming like a creepy image); pretty soon I was in a blissfully relaxed state where my whole body had turned slightly numb and fuzzy. I started affirming my intent to become lucid in the dreams that night. It seemed to go well... But when I had my WBTB I was so tired that I couldn't be bother to MILD and I think it ruined the work I'd put in earlier that night  :Sad:

----------


## LucidRaider

> This is where being able to contact your sub-conscious _in a dream_ will be really cool for you, you can just say, 'I want to be lucid like this in every dream, thanks.'
> 
> Last night as I was laying in bed I started to meditate, lying on my back, visualising blue light entering me and black light leaving me with each breath, I also imagined myself descending stairs as if to a basement, but the stairs were violet of carpet and the walls and ceiling were blue with white stars and moons shifting across it (to stop it seeming like a creepy image); pretty soon I was in a blissfully relaxed state where my whole body had turned slightly numb and fuzzy. I started affirming my intent to become lucid in the dreams that night. It seemed to go well... But when I had my WBTB I was so tired that I couldn't be bother to MILD and I think it ruined the work I'd put in earlier that night



aw. sorry  ::D:  try again  :tongue2:  . i wish my subconscious wasnt an a**

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## SilverBullet

Reached 300 lucid dreams today.

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## LucidRaider

I wish i learned to use this 'method'. :/

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## ShadowOfSelf

This is what it all comes down to really.
I dont become lucid often, my most recent was a few weeks ago, though it was only short, so the next night I was like 'Ok tonight i WILL lucid dream again! i must! i will!', and of course i didnt, got frustrated the next morning because of my failure and kept trying harder and harder. Only recently i came to the idea that I was probally being counter productive, looking back at the day of my lucid i was in such a calm mode of thought, I remember just 'knowing' that i would become lucid, but the days that followed after i had stressed myself out 'wanting' to become lucid again. 
Thanks for the post, it reaffirms what i've been wondering lately, from now on all I shall just focus on remembering my dreams and my lucid goals, whilst just 'knowing' that i will become lucid when the time is right.

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## SilverBullet

Hm, wondering when someone was going to post in my thread again.
I'm glad I could help. I've still been having lucids almost every day.

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## MarineRecon

This is a great guide. I like it how you emphasize the point of lucid dreaming is easy because it is! Whenever I "feel" like I'm going to have one, I will. This is such a easy technique, but it works wonders. I think this will be helpful to those people who are wanting to quit because lucid dreaming is too hard. All in all, great guide SilverBullet.  ::D:

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## Ctharlhie

Over my half term school holiday I had 6 LDs over 5 nights, my most prolific week yet, and I think it was due to my intention and belief. I think everyone can benefit from this guide. LDing is mianly mind over matter and mindset is everything.

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## [email protected]

> Hm, wondering when someone was going to post in my thread again.
> I'm glad I could help. I've still been having lucids almost every day.



is it really all about mindset? 
I'm still having same thing; just 3 lucids a week, although I had instant success after reading your guide..
seriously, just mindset?

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## SilverBullet

> is it really all about mindset? 
> I'm still having same thing; just 3 lucids a week, although I had instant success after reading your guide..
> seriously, just mindset?



Well that, and being able to sleep.

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## [email protected]

haha. it's funny that I had instant LD last night after reading your guide for 20 times  :smiley:

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## JohnnyBoi

Now that I think about it, that cold room and nightmares is sorta true.

I remember when I was younger, sometimes I'd sleep withou :Eek: t covers because they were being washed. I'd always have nightmares afterwards.

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## [email protected]

LOL. I had another lucid dream today. so this is how it is! now I know how to do...thank you again, Silverbullet  ::D:

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## fOrceez

Excellent guide indeed  :smiley:  Re-read this and it has the confidence factor of lucid dreaming around your little pinky. EZ(E-Z). Combined it with my daily SAT and i just woke from two lucid dreams. Cheers, SilverBullet!

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## SilverBullet

Bumping this thread because why not.

I want to remind all of you who read this thread and had a lucid dream right after; Remember that feeling you had that night. Whenever you have a lucid dream, capture that feeling and emotion that comes along with it. Feel that mindset that is lucid dreaming.

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## fOrceez

You go, girl!

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## Baco

> Bumping this thread because why not.
> 
> I want to remind all of you who read this thread and had a lucid dream right after; Remember that feeling you had that night. Whenever you have a lucid dream, capture that feeling and emotion that comes along with it. Feel that mindset that is lucid dreaming.



Thanks for bumping this or else I probably would not have seen it.


I myself fell into the "try too hard" phase after a lucid dream because I WANTED MORE! I haven't had one since. I had my first successful WILD a few days ago, however my mom woke me up as soon as I realized my body was asleep and my mind was still awake. Ugh.


Going to try to change that there subconscious  ::D: .

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## INeverWakeUp

I'm back to my good LD rate! I'll be following this guide closely as I did before! Thanks!

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## Spyguy

When people do this and don't get a lucid on the first night, they start doubting the technique, because it 'should've worked'. Because of the doubt it will continue to fail. If they hadn't doubted the technique and kept confident, they would've had a lucid dream the night after. Just keep confident! There are no failures, there are only lessons that lead to becoming EVEN BETTER!

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## MasterControl

Silverbullet, thanks so much for your tutorial. It's right up my alley!

BTW, have you ever read "Journey to Ixtlan" by Carlos Castaneda where don Juan introduces the art of dreaming?

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## SilverBullet

> Silverbullet, thanks so much for your tutorial. It's right up my alley!
> 
> BTW, have you ever read "Journey to Ixtlan" by Carlos Castaneda where don Juan introduces the art of dreaming?



 Yes I have also read that one. I think I read like 3 or 4 of the books.

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## ShadowOfSelf

> Yes I have also read that one. I think I read like 3 or 4 of the books.



What one do you suggest reading first, the art of dreaming? i plan to pick one up as ive seen quite a few recommendations for it
Also, dont know if this is has been asked already, any tips on how you was able to convince yourself or take on the persona of a natural lucid?

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## SilverBullet

Probably the first one you would want to read is the art of dreaming. It's the one I started with.

To answer your question; I just know that I have the power to lucid dream if I want to, so I simply do.

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## MasterControl

I've read the entire thread from page 1 to now -- and I'm excited by your discoveries! I'm also thrilled by the many posts from newbies and intermediate LD'ers who got an LD from using your "mindset" mentality.

It's easier for me to view it as highly focused self-hypnosis that creates a post-hypnotic suggestion that leads to a rock solid habit where you are on "autopilot" regarding gaining lucidity without using the "normal" LD inducing techniques.

Incidentally, your system is almost identical to the Seth methodology of using suggestion as you fall asleep.

And, of course, your system uses the Don Juan Matus "unbending intent" and "Set-up of Dreaming" techniques that were also used by Robert Waggoner to begin his LD journey.

Absolute brilliance!

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## SilverBullet

Thanks, the only problem with this is that some people grasp the concept immediately, and some don't.

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## MasterControl

It's kind of like a Zen meditation: trying too hard actually prevents what you're seeking. I know I've tried too hard in the past. This time I'm using your "mindset" methodology.

A wise person once said "If you're involved in a paradox, you're on the right track." There are paradoxes throughout the "natural lucid dreamers" methodology and that can consternate some folks.

BTW, I ripped all four of those "How to Double Your Brain Power" YouTube videos and combined them into one 50mb MP3. I uploaded it to my smartphone and replay it over and over to get the gist of what they're puttin' out.

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## ShadowOfSelf

> Probably the first one you would want to read is the art of dreaming. It's the one I started with.
> 
> To answer your question; I just know that I have the power to lucid dream if I want to, so I simply do.



Thank you

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## MasterControl

Art of Dreaming by Carlos Castaneda is ordered via Amazon!

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## adam-s

Great thread...this actually got me back on track. Ended up having 3 good lucid dreams last night. 

One thing that helped me with this was to pick a single, simple goal in my lucids and make sure I identify it as something I feel the need to solve. I set my target on mastering teleportation. This gave me a way to focus my intent without getting tangled up in micromanaging all my ideas about how to attain lucidity. This pretty much sounds like #3 in a nut shell.

When I was around 6 or 7 I had nightmares non-stop because I was allowed to watch some pretty scary stuff. After awhile I got to a point where I would stop the nightmare and change the dream. I've had maybe 3 nightmares that I can remember since my early childhood and in each case I'm lucid almost instantly. I'm also completely invincible and typically fearless in all my dreams.

So for #1 and #2 it's easy for me to believe I'm a natural because I'm pretty sure almost everyone has the potential to be. I think of it as a label. The tiny edge I have in dreams I attained as a by-product of things that happened in my life. Should be reproducible. If you can't at least overcome #1 then you're shooting yourself in the foot. Thinking that attaining lucidity is hard is like blocking your own shot in a basketball game.

The ability to dream lucidly is innate. Realising you are dreaming is something that has or will happen to a person in their lifetime. They may not remember it but it's practically inevitable that it will happen at some point. If something is destined to happen accidentally that tells me that we don't have to over complicate it.

Again, great thread! After going crazy on lucid dreaming a few months back I hit a dry spell mostly because of laziness and information overload. This really put me on the right track again.

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## Renyao

Just chiming in to say that yes, this method worked amazingly well for me. After focusing my intent at nighttime (and during WBTB awakenings especially) for only _two days_, I got a long string of lucid dreams on the second day...felt like I was lucid for hours. 

I realized I did something similar to this "intent" method when I was having nightmares as a kid, like adam-s is saying -- I figured out that I could fly away from frightening things, and after deciding that I _can_ and _will_ fly away to escape my nightmares, it became second nature to me. I never worried about forgetting to fly away, or not knowing how to fly, or not realizing I was having a nightmare -- it became an automatic thing to me because I'd decided I would do it and was confident that I could. (And it stuck with me -- I fly constantly in dreams, even to this day, just because I conditioned myself to do it. I just wish I'd thought of using flight as a dreamsign when I was younger, I could have been lucid dreaming multiple times a week by now  :Cheeky:  )

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## Spyguy

This technique has boosted my amount of lucids bigtime. I can confirm what you said about dream journals by the way. They help for dream vividness, but it doesn't affect my lucid count. It might be a good idea to use my wake ups for DEILD instead of DJ. That way I combine DILD (ADA), WILD (DEILD) and MILD (this thread). Hard to go wrong on that  :tongue2:

----------


## SilverBullet

Yesterday morning I had a bunch of lucid dreams within an hour. I had so many false awakenings it felt like I was never gonna actually wake up. The dreams were EXTREMELY vivid.

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## Ctharlhie

Wow, Bullet, 390 LDs now?

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## MissLucy

I'm going to give this a go too, always open to new suggestions and techniques  :smiley:

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## SilverBullet

> Wow, Bullet, 390 LDs now?



It's more than that, I haven't been updating it that much.

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## ShadowOfSelf

No matter how much I practise and believe this technique, or others of the same principle. I never get anywhere. Dont know if its just me or what. I believe im going to have a lucid as much as i believe i will wake up tomorow morning, still nothing.  ::?:

----------


## Spyguy

> No matter how much I practise and believe this technique, or others of the same principle. I never get anywhere. Dont know if its just me or what. I believe im going to have a lucid as much as i believe i will wake up tomorow morning, still nothing.



You didn't fail. You were succesful, forgot about it, all of that in order to train yourself to handle failure in your life. You just dont realize it because it is the unconcious part of your brain who handles that. It is the only explanation why a pro lucid dreamer like you wouldnt wake up remembering his awesome lucid dreams from the past night.

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## SilverBullet

I myself have forgotten many lucid dreams.
Sometimes I'll be in the middle of the day when I suddenly remember a lucid dream I had but couldn't remember before.
Makes me wonder how many drift away completely from my memory.

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## ShadowOfSelf

> You didn't fail. You were succesful, forgot about it, all of that in order to train yourself to handle failure in your life. You just dont realize it because it is the unconcious part of your brain who handles that. It is the only explanation why a pro lucid dreamer like you wouldnt wake up remembering his awesome lucid dreams from the past night.



I like that :p thanks. 'Forgetting' the lucid dream is a lot better than thinking you didnt have one. Has kept my motivation up a bit so thanks again.

----------


## Signet

Woah, MAN!
I read this article twice again last night and welt to bed thinking "Well, duh. Of course I'll have a memorable dream."  >BAM<  I got one.  :Shades wink: 
Thank you so much for clarifying all that, it really helps!

----------


## LucidRaider

> I myself have forgotten many lucid dreams.
> Sometimes I'll be in the middle of the day when I suddenly remember a lucid dream I had but couldn't remember before.
> Makes me wonder how many drift away completely from my memory.



Oh wow. I like that. Kinda gives me some confidence. ...
God I really want to be able to do this technique....

----------


## saltyseedog

> I myself have forgotten many lucid dreams.
> Sometimes I'll be in the middle of the day when I suddenly remember a lucid dream I had but couldn't remember before.
> Makes me wonder how many drift away completely from my memory.



Same. Sometimes Ill just lay in bed and the memories will come back.

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## ares222

as i was reading this, a song called 'chasing shadows' by stratovarius came on. i normally have very low self confidence, but the irony of the repeated chorus of "you're chasing shadows" actually made me laugh and i feel really confident. looking forward to trying thus new method of no method tonight.

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## LucidRaider

I just want to be able to do this so bad, like you, SilverBullet... Will I ever reach there....

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## Ctharlhie

> I just want to be able to do this so bad, like you, SilverBullet... Will I ever reach there....



Yes, tonight.

Honestly if you're asking that kind of question you clearly missed the whole point of the tutorial :/

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## LucidRaider

> Yes, tonight.
> 
> Honestly if you're asking that kind of question you clearly missed the whole point of the tutorial :/



I know, But I just... can't help but find it hard. I'm scared to go to sleep tonight and wake up in the morning with nothing, I'm sick of doing that. 
I'm trying... really....I have such a bad belief system in this... ugh, I hate it....

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## ares222

i did this and it worked. when i woke up i thought i had realized i was dreaming afterwards, but then i realized that i became aware during the dream. it's hard to explain, it's like real life, but completely different. thank you so much for opening a whole new world to me

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## Ctharlhie

This isn't something that develops over night. You need to have experienced at least one lucid dream in order to have the self-efficacy (belief in your ability) to have further lucid dreams. You need to have had success in order to develop the mindset of being a lucid dreamer, and each lucid dream confirms that mindset.

But look, according to your profile you have 25 lucid dreams, and you've been at it since last February. Some people can go years of trying, only to have one measly semi-lucid that they immediately awaken from because they never developed the capacity to lucid dream.

That's why this tutorial basically aims to bypass the tortuous process of becoming a 'natural' bit-by-bit, through experience, by instructing you to act like, and believe, you are a pro already, it's that intent that will get you your initial lucid dreams. From there, belief is second nature.

This is a bit of a shameless plug, but I wrote a thread outlining my ideas on intent in more detail, you may find it useful, maybe not: http://www.dreamviews.com/f11/intent...ue-rut-130463/

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## LucidRaider

> This isn't something that develops over night. You need to have experienced at least one lucid dream in order to have the self-efficacy (belief in your ability) to have further lucid dreams. You need to have had success in order to develop the mindset of being a lucid dreamer, and each lucid dream confirms that mindset.
> 
> But look, according to your profile you have 25 lucid dreams, and you've been at it since last February. Some people can go years of trying, only to have one measly semi-lucid that they immediately awaken from because they never developed the capacity to lucid dream.
> 
> That's why this tutorial basically aims to bypass the tortuous process of becoming a 'natural' bit-by-bit, through experience, by instructing you to act like, and believe, you are a pro already, it's that intent that will get you your initial lucid dreams. From there, belief is second nature.
> 
> This is a bit of a shameless plug, but I wrote a thread outlining my ideas on intent in more detail, you may find it useful, maybe not: http://www.dreamviews.com/f11/intent...ue-rut-130463/



Thank you... I've been trying since September, 2010.. Not last February.  :Sad:  I understand your lovely words. Thank you... I shall read your post and try this more... maybe then I can understand better.

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## Chrisito

> Hey it took awhile to try again but I did.
> 
> Last night I thought "I lucid dream every night, all of them clear and long." I also said this to myself during the day. While I thought it, I created emotion (makes it stick in the brain or something), made myself excited and happy at the thought of it. Didn't have any doubt. I also visualised myself becoming lucid.
> 
> I got lucid three times last night  They were clear, though they were quite foggy when I woke up. 
> 
> Let's see how it goes tonight, though with this method it's more up to the person, not the actual technique.



did you start adding "and i have amazing dream recall every day?"

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## SilverBullet

Hey everyone! Sorry I haven't been on the forums for a while. After the site got hacked I changed my hosts file to correct it. But after they fixed it the site didn't work anymore. One day I decided to revert my hosts file to normal, and it fixed the problem. I've still been lucid dreaming like crazy, like I always have since I started. Mainly just WILDs now. There really is not much else to say, other than thanks for not letting this thread die. I wish you all good luck on your path to lucid dreaming.

And one little piece of advice for everyone; I've found that being generally happy has really helped me lucid dream.

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## Marm

Welcome back. Nice to see you again.  :tongue2:

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## melanieb

Welcome back to the forum!

At least your thread remained intact during the hack.

It is good to be happy, though fooling yourself into happiness won't work or make life any less stressful.

Find one good reason to smile every day. Make a mental list, and add to it daily. Right there is a good start on the path to happiness.

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## SilverBullet

> Welcome back to the forum!
> 
> At least your thread remained intact during the hack.
> 
> It is good to be happy, though fooling yourself into happiness won't work or make life any less stressful.
> 
> Find one good reason to smile every day. Make a mental list, and add to it daily. Right there is a good start on the path to happiness.



 In my opinion, giving yourself a reason to be happy is the same a fooling yourself into happiness.
 I've found that the greatest happiness comes from within.

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## mdspencer68

I've just started reading this thread and this method sounds awesome. What exactly I need to know is there some kind subliminal message you give your subconscious, sort of like autosuggestion, or is my subconscious that easy to trick into believing that I can LD?

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## SilverBullet

> I've just started reading this thread and this method sounds awesome. What exactly I need to know is there some kind subliminal message you give your subconscious, sort of like autosuggestion, or is my subconscious that easy to trick into believing that I can LD?



The shortest possible subliminal messages, or mantras I guess you could say, that you could give your subconscious are things like "Lucid Dreaming" or "I am dreaming". But not everybody uses words primarily as the symbol system in their brain. Some people can use things like feelings, images, or emotions to better set their intent. I'd say I myself use a certain feeling I get from lucid dreams in general.

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## mdspencer68

> The shortest possible subliminal messages, or mantras I guess you could say, that you could give your subconscious are things like "Lucid Dreaming" or "I am dreaming". But not everybody uses words primarily as the symbol system in their brain. Some people can use things like feelings, images, or emotions to better set their intent. I'd say I myself use a certain feeling I get from lucid dreams in general.



I think I might fall in the latter category. I've tried mantras doing MILD and so far it hasn't worked. My memory tends to  works better with images rather than words.

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## mdspencer68

> The shortest possible subliminal messages, or mantras I guess you could say, that you could give your subconscious are things like "Lucid Dreaming" or "I am dreaming". But not everybody uses words primarily as the symbol system in their brain. Some people can use things like feelings, images, or emotions to better set their intent. I'd say I myself use a certain feeling I get from lucid dreams in general.



I think I fall in the latter category. I tend to do better visualizing images.


WHOOPS! Sorry for the double post. I was trying to edit it.

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## Ctharlhie

Don't think in terms of subliminal messages as that places use as that places effectiveness on external factors when you want to place emphasis on you as a dreamer. It's as simple as knowing that you are a lucid dreamer, you were born to do it, now go, dream. 
It may take time, but once you crack this attitude, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to induce lucid dreams on any night you choose  :smiley:

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## mdspencer68

So, it's sort of like the scene from the Empire Strikes Back, where Yoda is essentially telling Luke that using the force isn't about thinking you can, but knowing you can. Am I close?

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## Ctharlhie

Yep, "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."  :smiley:

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## melanieb

> In my opinion, giving yourself a reason to be happy is the same a fooling yourself into happiness.
>  I've found that the greatest happiness comes from within.




I think you misunderstand.

Happiness does indeed need to come from within. Finding reasons to smile and enjoy life is the ability to connect to internal feelings of happiness from simple pleasures (or complex ones) when all other stimuli or situational experiences would tend to depress a person.

It's not fooling oneself into happiness but finding more reason to think positively. 

Negative thoughts come easy and overshadow positive thoughts in some people. Finding reasons to smile is a good step in reversing that trend.

 :smiley:

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## Chrisito

firstly let me just say i have finally read this whole thing, and i read the one that you did before that.
the first night i did this i got 2-3 lucids. i think it really does definitely help if you have had atleast 1 or 2 lucids before.
i don't get them alot until i did this. awesome way to go. 
when i have time to actually focus on this i get lucids with it. the night i did it and had 2-3 lucids i did a WBTB and it worked intensely. 
i said to myself "i lucid dream everynight and have 2-3 lucid dreams everynight. i have great dream recall and my draems are vivid. i will have a dream about "this girl" BANG all of it worked for me lol.. i know i now am a natural lucid dreamer 100% when im not tired and get enough sleep etc..

shot bro.

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## Spyguy

Is it just me or are all the posts in pink? (Irrelevant to the thread I know)

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## Ctharlhie

For me all text is pink comic sans ms.

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## SilverBullet

yep, its a user by the name of MindGames that changed it.
Wonder if he/she will get banned.

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## Signet

> yep, its a user by the name of MindGames that changed it.



Erm, don't mind me being naive here, but... HOW???

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## Chrisito

Last night 2 lucids, think im at a point now where i just need to work on extending the time and the dream control = ) im pumped cuz i know i've got masters in lucid dreaming now hahaha. had a vivid as dream aswell that i went through a water slide and it was so fukin realistic.
i went to bed at 10:15 woke up at 2:45 stayed up for 30 minutes had a glass of apple juice had some zma and fish oil and went back to bed with my intent and then fell back asleep and bang dreams pumped me  :smiley: 
so 4-5 lucids in a week. thats my record and thats since i read this forum and the old one. 

pumped  :smiley:

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## LucidRaider

OH GOD I JUST WANT THIS SO BAD. Sorry If I'm beginning to get annoying ROFL. :/ Just really do...
I want to do this...
I can do this....
I've done it before...

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## Chrisito

try it with wbtb

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## LucidRaider

^
I seem to be having REM trouble? Is REM the only time you have dreams?, Or do dreams occur in other stages? I'm really confused .. :/

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## Chrisito

Alot of people have different opinions on this. saying in the first stage of sleep your just in deep sleep mode and no dreams happen but i don't agreee with this cuz i get some dreams in that period its just harder to remember but yeah main part of dreams i say is REM
what trouble are you having? make sure you get enough sleep 7-8 hours even more

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## SilverBullet

Ive had many wake induced lucid dreams at night with no prior sleep beforehand.
They also say that the most a rem sleep period can last is 90 minutes. 
When I've had continuous lucid dreams for 2 and a half hours at most.
Don't believe what anyone says to be 100% FACT.

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## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by Signet


Erm, don't mind me being naive here, but... HOW???



Exploiting a little glitch in the community hall. 

And welcome back silver bullet.*

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## LucidRaider

> Ive had many wake induced lucid dreams at night with no prior sleep beforehand.
> They also say that the most a rem sleep period can last is 90 minutes. 
> When I've had continuous lucid dreams for 2 and a half hours at most.
> Don't believe what anyone says to be 100% FACT.



God I just* love* you.

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## Rsandee

Step 4 was REALLY helpful!
I always end up failing in some of the stabilization parts, making me wake up.
Using step 4 I could climb right back in. :p

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## SilverBullet

> Step 4 was REALLY helpful!
> I always end up failing in some of the stabilization parts, making me wake up.
> Using step 4 I could climb right back in. :p



Yep, I probably would have like 200 less lucids if I never did step 4.

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## Oceanboy

Lol wow, the whole hands thing, my first and only true lucid was a short one where I looked down at my arm and and actually thought "this is a dream  :3"

My main problem is I never seem to stop long enough to think to much.... I'm moving around and seeing stuff but.... its like i'm not aware of the fact that im dreaming. Sure I can fly, kill a monster.... then go through dejavu where i'm running through the same room from it and decide to just let it eat me the second time.... but i like rarely ever stop and go "oh shiz i'm dreamin"

Only just the once :/

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## SilverBullet

You made me realize that lately I never think "oh I'm dreaming" in my dreams anymore. The moment I become lucid, its a feeling, not a sentence, or any words. I guess you could call it a thought though.  When I first started lucid dreaming the thought always came up as "I'm dreaming!" in words.

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## Erii

> You made me realize that lately I never think "oh I'm dreaming" in my dreams anymore. The moment I become lucid, its a feeling, not a sentence, or any words. I guess you could call it a thought though.  When I first started lucid dreaming the thought always came up as "I'm dreaming!" in words.



A lot of the times when I become lucid it's the same way! I sort of just randomly know and am in some situation, then begin to fly to evade whatever then continue with the LD.

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## Aeolus

> You made me realize that lately I never think "oh I'm dreaming" in my dreams anymore. The moment I become lucid, its a feeling, not a sentence, or any words. I guess you could call it a thought though.  When I first started lucid dreaming the thought always came up as "I'm dreaming!" in words.



That happened to me my first lucid. It was spontaneous, no reality check. I never declared to myself that I was dreaming but I knew it.

I'm working on getting my sleep schedule back to the right times then I'm going to be attempting to get lucid again, probably using MILD and incorporating your points.

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## Marc27

Amazing: Tryed it 4 Days and had 4 Lucid Dreams!
Each Time combined with WBTB, I thinkt thats more effective  :smiley: .

SilverBullet many thanks Dude  ::D: .

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## LucidRaider

I think I got a lucid last night from this method. 
I knew it. I knew I would reach salvation with this..
Thank you.

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## Csorax

That's my opinion on this technique, and why I'm currently working on my own "key"  :Cheeky: 






For this, I alternated a similar popular meme to fit it for LDing , but I'm sure certain people will recognize it ::D:

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## Spyguy

> That's my opinion on this technique, and why I'm currently working on my own "key" 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For this, I alternated a similar popular meme to fit it for LDing , but I'm sure certain people will recognize it



Need LD for motivation? Think of everything you can do when you're lucid. Imagine you would realize RIGHT NOW that this is a lucid dream (do a reality check while reading this just to be sure  :wink2:  ). Think of all the amazing things you could do, and how amazingly realistic it would be. That should be enough motivation  :smiley:

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## skullgunner1

This method looks good and I will be trying this tonight!
I have a feeling this will work because I have been raised up in the fact of humans can do anything, but they set the bar for themselves. This is why I find little to no trouble doing anything in my Lucid dreams, (Only really had 1 Lucid dream.) otherwise where other people can't fly.

Anyways, I will post my results!
 :smiley:

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## BlueWalls

SilverBullet this is a fantastic guide!!! Thanks to you I've gone from having LDs maybe once a month to at least once a week. But I wanna make sure I have them every night. How can I make sure I'm really intending properly?

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## SilverBullet

Don't worry about the intent part so much. In the world of sorcery, somebody that simply knows intent exists, is using intent.
 If you really want I can go on about that, but to answer your question, to have LDs consistently you should probably follow the sleep schedule that produces the best results. For me, all I have to do is go to bed like I normally would, get up after 8 hours, then do whatever I want(besides dozing off) for around an hour so I can let my brain regain its logic and full awareness, then I go back to sleep, preferably on my back, as that seems to give me the best results. When I do this, It almost NEVER fails.

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## Zollage

> Don't worry about the intent part so much. In the world of sorcery, somebody that simply knows intent exists, is using intent.
>  If you really want I can go on about that, but to answer your question, to have LDs consistently you should probably follow the sleep schedule that produces the best results. For me, all I have to do is go to bed like I normally would, get up after 8 hours, then do whatever I want(besides dozing off) for around an hour so I can let my brain regain its logic and full awareness, then I go back to sleep, preferably on my back, as that seems to give me the best results. When I do this, It almost NEVER fails.



How many hours do you have between the time you first go to bed and the time you physically get up?

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## SilverBullet

Well it takes me a while to fall asleep sometimes, about an hour usually.
So I guess 9 hours?

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## Loooo

Do you also get lucid with this technique during the early stages of sleep? Or just after WBTB?

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## SilverBullet

Sometimes I'll get lucids in the first stages of sleep, but its only occasional compared to how frequent it is with WBTB.
I think I might start a new thread.

Edit: Here's my new thread, it might help you more than this one.
http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/lucid-...-later-139114/

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## azoller1

Just because of this thread I am really motivated to start lucid dreaming, and one tip I think helps is that when you want to start lucid dreaming you start THAT NIGHT you don't wait and say, "oh I'll try it next week", or "tonight I'm not feeling it I'll do it tomorrow night" I think its better to start right away and that's what I'm going to do, start tonight, thanks for this guide SilverBullet

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## saltyseedog

::bump::

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This looks like a promising technique. I'm hoping it'll help me on my way to my first lucid dream.

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## Loooo

For me this technique is still working. If I intend to have a lucid dream before falling asleep and combine it with a relaxation technique I have about 3-4 LD in a week. I guess even more because I forget some of them, especially the ones earlier in the night. 

But this is sooo easy and step 4 allows for more than one LD once you became lucid. In my opinion this technique gets even easier with time and more successful. Your brain seems to learn how to recognize the dreamstate.

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## cclav64

I'm definitely giving this one a try. I really like pressure and stress it removes. I haven't had my first lucid yet but since I'm a master I will tonight!

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