# Sleep and Dreams > Sleep and Health >  >  Do you meditate?

## Howie

I could go to the library or find a sight on the net about meditation, but why not ask peolpe I am familiar with and have somthing in common. Also it seems it has been mentioned often in a lot of subjects. In addition to that it would be interesting to know if Lucid dreamers tend to meditate.

I don't know a thing about it except - take a deep breath. Could you all enlighten me those who know about meditating?

It seems very benificial   ::lol::

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## Daeraug

I meditate from time to time, though I haven't been able to lately because of the demands of my job. It is very benificial though. When I am home I will find a spot in the woods and sit listening to the sounds of nature around me.

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## Howie

What kind of time frame are we generally talking about?

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## Lord of the Flies

I meditated for the first time last night in my bed. I won't say much except that it worked out fine and when I was walking through the forest (because the method I was using recommends that you walk through a forest) I basically and litterally walked into sleep. The crazy thing is that I knew I was falling asleep. Try it, it is benificial and I'll be doing it again tonight for a second time.  :smiley:

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## Je33ica

When mediating, you should sit crosslegged in order not to fall asleep.  Before I mediate, I preform the Progressive Muscle Relaxation technique (basically, you lie down and individually tense every muscle in your body, then relax that muscle).  Then, sit down and mediate.  Some common ones are counting breaths, inhaling 7 seconds and exhaling 7 seconds, affirmations (i.e. "RE" inhaling, "LAX exhaling either verbally or mentally), or imaging yourself walking through a forest, feeling all the senses, and finding a guide that will tell you your subconscious thoughts.

When done mediating, don't just open your eyes.  Slowly close your mediatiation and open your eyes slowly.

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## pcmsurf

i guess the closest i get to meditation is when i try to wild

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## jacobo

same here. the only time i get relative silence in my house is at night and by then i'm too tired to try anything other than a wild.

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## LewisM

Meditation is a really open-ended thing, and you'll be surprised when you find out that we all do it! I think that if you dont practice it much then you'll just force yourself to do it sometimes.

The people of some religions like to call it 'prayer'.

Have you ever been watching the tele/reading a book and found that you've tuned out and been thinking deeply about something, or have been just sitting then staring?

Thats really what meditation is. Also, before going to bed if you do this then you can set yourself up for a really quick entry into Deep Sleep, instead of going to bed while very awake and tossing around all night, not quite getting enough deep sleep and waking up more tired than when you went to bed!

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## Peaceful Mind

i do meditate but not that often

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## Lowercase Society

I used to meditate every day...now i don't have that much time!

But it really helps get rid of stress.

Also, because of the intensive relaxation, i found that my tolerance to pain is bigger...because when you are tense when you expect pain, the pain is greater.

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## Truthbearer

This is a pretty cool topic. I have tried meditating before, but had no clue what I was doing. I just imagined that I was nowhere. Tried to shut myself out from the rest of the world. I was, of course, unsuccesfull. Hopefully with some techniques you guys listed and will list in the future I should be able to do so...

I will also yahoo to find some good techiniques...

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## Lowercase Society

Has anyone here, when meditating, gone into a transe or 'trip'.

Basically, the hypnogogic imagery starts freaking out, and.....wow, its amazing! I love it!

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by Lowercase Society_
> *Has anyone here, when meditating, gone into a transe or 'trip'.
> 
> Basically, the hypnogogic imagery starts freaking out, and.....wow, its amazing! I love it!*



I have very vivid HI. But ae you saying when you meditate you see HI?
What step in meditation is this.
Meditation has nothing to do with sleeping right?

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## Truthbearer

The other day I tried meditating doing some exercises that the chakra deal said to do. There was a moment that I felt completely seperated from this world, I felt like I was nowhere. I had never achieved such introversion without being lucid, I guess. It felt pretty weird..

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## evangel

There are different definitions of meditation, the most popular of which is Eastern or transcendental I think... To me, meditation is a combination of extreme inward focus and contemplation. It can be done through prayer. I think it can also be simply focusing your mind on one thing or idea in particular -for the purpose of trying to comprehend it...

I often meditate on scripture, asking God to enable my understanding. I find this to be very helpful both for my dreaming and for my overall perspective.

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## Seeker

OK, let's see if I can remember this correctly.

Stop for a minute and imagine with me, try to get fully involved and feel it.

You have $140 in your pocket.  It is all the money you have for gas an lunch until you get paid 5 days from now.

When you return home, you find you have received a letter telling you that your electric bill is overdue and must be paid immediately.  If you do not show up at the main office and pay them within 3 days, they will turn your electricity off.  You owe them $120. 

You leave to pay the bill, it is a 30 minute drive.  On the way to pay the bill, you notice that you are almost out of gas.  It takes a tank of gas to get to work each week and you have to get to work.  A tank of gas costs you $18.

Your mind is consumed with thoughts:  How will I eat? What about the present I wanted to get for my girlfriends birthday this Friday?  I promised I would buy the next round at the club tonight$

Pause now and fully get into it, how will you make it?  How will you survive?  What can you juggle?

Think on this for a few moments before scrolling down.


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If you followed this and fully participated, then my friend, you have just meditated.

Worry is the most common type of meditation.  Did it fully involve your mind and emotions?  Could you feel the sense of panic?

If you can worry, then you can meditate.  Just grab hold of an idea and think clearly and deeply of that idea.

It can be such a simple thought.  Evangel likes to take a verse or two of scripture and do this.  Others do it with simple concepts.  One of my favorites is by Zbignew Herbert:  "The pebble is a perfect creature, equal to itself, mindful of its limits.

Another type of meditation involves clearing the mind of all thought and just sitting and enjoying the emptyness.  This usually results in a change of brainwave states, such as alpha and theta state.
When I was younger and had much more time on my hands, I dilligently practiced alpha meditation.

I would lay in bed at night and allow my mind to become passive and clear.  Soon you enter a state that is similar to that nice warm fuzzy feeling you get just before you go to sleep.  You know the state, you hear the insects or dogs making noise in the distance.  Your mind notes the fact and is passively aware of what is happening, but you make no effort to think about it.

Alpha and theta state are the natural outcomes of meditation, however, tools such as Brainwave Generator, can speed up the process and help you to more quickly enter these states.

Whew! *wipes sweat from forhead*

Anyway, that is my two cents worth!

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## Berserk Exodus

Yes, I meditate.  Quite often as of late.

The mind during meditation is perfect for solving problems.  While in Alpha, Theta, or even Delta if you're that good, you are able to use more resources in your brain.  

Most of the time I just meditate for maybe 5-10 minutes and it refreshes my mind and relaxes my body.  Actually, as a side effect of this, I have been requiring less sleep than usual.  When I'm tired I just focus and then I'm OK.

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## Howie

Well Seeker if worring is a form of meditation I am a guru of meditation. However I would like to meditate on Quite the opposite. But I get your point. 
Apply the same principles-- Correct?

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## Seeker

Exactly!

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## incubusfunkman

seeker is very correct, meditation happens in your daily life , all the time., and depending on what you choose to meditate about, thats what your subconcious dwells on and thus makes it more profound part of your life, so you can conclude that meditation in the right way can send your life soaring in whatever direction you desire, so why not take the time to meditate?

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## Human

> _Originally posted by evangel_
> *To me, meditation is a combination of extreme inward focus and contemplation. It can be done through prayer. I think it can also be simply focusing your mind on one thing or idea in particular -for the purpose of trying to comprehend it...
> *



I use to listen to audio books when I am waiting to fell asleep.
That is very relaxing, and I fell asleep fast.

Could this have a similarly effect as meditating?

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## Xisdence

Yeah i agree with alot of what seeker says  :wink2: 

But im not with the idea that meditation requires some crappy breathing excersize, walking on a beach image thing. That hampered my progress, not to mention probally countless others when they first tried as the goal of trying to meditate gets overcome with trying to stick to the meditation induction techniquee itself.

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## Podges

I use all types of meditation to WILD or to induce just normal LD.

I find if i do Yoga and hour before i sleep I always LD.

Canis meus opus meum comedit!

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## simisu

ever since i joined this forum (wich was a few days after first learning about lucid dreaming) i found out i'm a MUCH MORE spiritual man than i always thought! 
and now that i understand why these things are so important to me and HOW they can help me i want to find out more about all this...

meditation and relaxing one's thoughts can do the body so much good!
if you spend the day worrying all the time and feeling bad your body tensses and it may even afact your health!

i tried meditation twice by now (with the brainwave generator) and expirianced to distinct things... at some point my body temprature raised (i'm not sure why or how but i became really hot and sweaty all of a sudden) and i also had a VERY distinct HI which kind of freaked me out of the "medetative zone" 

i guess its not the only time i meditated cuz as you said we do it all the time (there are times when i have nothing to do so i get into bed with my clothes on close my eyes and just ley there doing nothing... and i dont fall asleep becouse i dont mean to... so i guess that's a kind of meditation...)
and also i've been trying WILD everynight since finding out of LDs
but its hard cuz i dont fall asleep... i end up leying in bed for hours before i finelly fall asleep 

what frequency would be best for creating HI ?

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## Howie

Well at least you may get some good HI while you lie there trying to go to sleep. 
That is a good question. About the frequency. Or all brain wave inneraction for that matter. Is it on a AM mand or an FM or microwave type frequency. I do not know much about it other than AM bands are long and drawn out as opposed to FM which are higher in frequency.

From what i have heard there seems to be several approaches to meditation. Just as Lucid dreams.You just have to choose the one that works for you.

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## simisu

i picture the brain as something that humms (from working the body and thinking and moving.......) and when you meditate it sets on a minimum of humm... or maybe close tothe earth's electro magnetic hum (which stands on 7.83 Hz)

the first time i tried the BW generator (at the deepest part... right befor i saw the HI which freaked me out) i could hear a constant sound which begun to fluctuate whenever i even thought about moving a part of my body and more noticebly when i changed the pattern of my breathing...
i dont think i was actualy hearing my brain waves but... well that's just what i thought   ::wink::

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## Xisdence

Meditation is awsome, and by account would be different for everybody.

I also hope this thread doesnt't tunr into an annoying brain theory page....

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## hpnotiq

I've tried a few times with not much success! I'm going to try more often though.

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## Imachinchilla

Before I fall asleep I imagine myself walking down an endless flight of stairs with a number on each landing, I also imagine warmth starting at toes winding around my body up to my head. Then when I'm so relaxed I can barely think I use my lucid command: Now I'm going to dream. I'm in a dream. I'm aware of my dream. I do this until I fall asleep. When I do it right I usually have a lucid dream. Somehow I think the command carries over into my dream because I usually know I'm dreaming from the start. Anyway is this meditation?

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## Howie

I would certainly call it a form of Meditation. I am not sure if it falls under the exact cadagory or not but to me any method used to incubate a lucid dream is a form of self meditation... or even hynosis. That may be carring it to far. But if you really think of the protocol for either of them they are certainly closey related to what most lucid dreamers have to carry out to be a succesful LDer.

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## Howie

I thought this would be a good place to post this relaxation technique.

The 61 point relaxation technique 

1. [url=http://img53.exs.cx/img53/7223/27-61Points.jpg]61 point relaxation imageThis figure illustrates 61 points on the body. To do this exercise, you need to memorize the sequence of points. (This is not difficult, because the points are arranged in a simple pattern) They begin at the forehead, travel down and up your right arm, then across to your left arm, down to your torso, down and up your right legs, then back up your torso to the forehead. 

2. Focus your attention on one point at a time 
Begin at your forehead, focus your attention between your eyebrows and think of the number one. Keep your attention fixed at point one for several seconds until you feel that your awareness of the location is clear and distinct. Think of yourself being located at this point. Before moving on to the next point, you should feel a sense of warmth and heaviness at this spot. 

3. Move through each point in sequence 
In the same manner, succesively focus your attention on each of the first thrity-one points. Proceed slowly, and imagine you self being located at each point as you reach it. Feel the sense of warmth and heaviness before moving on. Do not allow your mind to wander. At first you may find this difficult to do: you will find that at times you suddenly will forget that you are doing the exercise and start daydreaming or thinking about somthing else. IF you lose your place, return to the beginning or the last numbered point you attended to, and continue. Practice with thirty-one points until you can attendto them all in sequence without daydreaming or losing track. 

4.Extend your practice to include all sixty-one points 
When you can attend to thity -one points in sequence, repeat steps 1 and 2 with all sixty-one points. Practice this until you can do all points without losing your focus. Now you are ready to use this exercise with lucid dreaming induction techniques.

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## evangel

I often do a similar technique to help me relax before falling asleep, although I have never used any diagrams or focused on fixed points, but instead kind of "visualize" or imagine  a liquid such as water (or my own blood) moving to various points of my body through my limbs and back again... this seems to create a sense of fluidity and lets any tension in my muscles relax thoroughly while letting me maintain a level of awareness. I think that some who adhere to tenets within Asian cultures may refer to this as "chi" or ki energy. I tend to try not to mystify it as much, but simply use it as a useful tool for relaxation. I'm surprised that this sort of method has not been made more popular for insomniacs and others. It is tremendously soothing and allows you to sleep better.

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## midknight

Daydreaming and meditating are extremely different things. The opposite.

If you are thinking about how your going to the pay the bill while you are driving down the street, this is the normal human mind set.
Doing one thing, thinking of another. Meditation (in my experience and the term I accept) is really coming into this moment. If you are driving down the street be aware of driving down the street...

I like to go a step farther and just be aware of my breathing or just my my thoughts, and trying not to get involved. 

Though you can meditate on situations and experiences to get the full teaching from them. But Truly, daydreaming during the day makes Lucid dreaming much harder.

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## Maystar

i find breathing exercises quite good.  the idea is to remain focused on each breath which in turn stops the mind wandering.  if you were to try and think of nothing (a state that you can reach, where no thoughts enter your head (however i remember a friend once asking, 'well surely if you've got nothing in your head and you think "hey 'i'm meditating"  then you are thinking of something.'!)) then outside thoughts would continually try and press themselves in.  equally, i've read if you have an itch or can here a noise that is annoying you, don't try to block it out, accept it and try to continue.

focusing on one specific mental image is good, or a sound like 'om'  - again these chants are used to keep the mind focused.

i haven't meditated for a while as i seem to be able to deal with stuff more easily these days, but certainly when i found it hard to regulate my 'internal dialogue' it was used frequently.  i even was able to do it on trains and buses!!

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## patelvipulk

To find out more about the relationship between meditation and  the lucid dreams, 
please read the following online books  by Sri Ram Sharma Acharya:

sleep dreams and spiritual reflections :
http://www.awgp.org/english/books/sleep_dreams.pdf

 The Extrasensory potentials of mind : 
http://www.awgp.org/english/books/extra_potentials.pdf


I do not know if you like to read or not but if you do, please send me an email at  [email protected] if you want me to more online sources like such.

Vipul..

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## Howie

*Excellent  patelvipulk!!!* Thankyou for all the useful knowledge. 
(So many books so little time)

Feel free to post any of your links you may find helpful!

 Also..... Welcome to Dreamviews   ::D:

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## lurker

right now i'm meditating atleast once a day, in my car during my lunch break at work.  several weeks ago i started using my orion again.  i recieved my proteus on xmas eve (bout damn time, i ordered it on the 3rd of dec)  i am making much more progess using the machines.  i still fall asleep maybe half the time (because my timer wakes me up. -but i'm getting better at hanging on to conciousness/awareness.  but my session are much more intense now.  before i started using the orion, i fell asleep most of the time.  or i was just lying in my car relaxing, but my mind was racing around like it usually does, or i would just zone out.  progress was super slow.  

the method that worked best for me at relaxing my mind was just focusing on my breathing.  focusing on my belly rising when i inhale, and my belly sinking as i exhaled.  then i would imaging that i was in my solar plexus, or stomach, and seeing rise and fall.  after awhile i would notice that i'm really relaxed...  but it's hard to stay focused, because random thoughts will want to come in, or i zone out, or fall asleep.

one of the reasons why i bought the proteus, is because i wanted to make sure of the binaural beat feature -like bwgen.  bwgen is more powerfull than the proteus.  but i need the protues because it's light and sound, and it's a lot more protable than my desktop computer here at home.  plus my computer is downstairs, and when i meditate in the car i'm least likley to fall asleep or be disturbed, yet i'm comfortable enough to stretch out and relax.

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## DanaN

Because I'm a Buddhist, I meditate almost daily. In fact, that is what triggered my interest in lucid dreaming. Since meditating I've started having some lucid dreams, and sometimes in my dream I'm not me but someone else. My thoughts and feelings don't match me at all. It's really bizarre. I've dreamt that I was a different race, a rat, and sometimes I know I'm dreaming and try to wake myself up.

I'm wondering if meditation stirs up, refines, or somehow does something to the subtler levels of consciousness that trigger this kind of dreaming? Also, wonder if any of you are familiar with dream yoga? This is lucid dreaming Buddhist style.

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## nina

I should meditate. I think it would help with the dream sharing experiment too. I just don't really know how, and I get too impatient. I'd rather just take a nap and LD (which I view as a sort of mediation for me anyway).

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## Leo Volont

> _Originally posted by Howetzer_
> *I could go to the library or find a sight on the net about meditation, but why not ask peolpe I am familiar with and have somthing in common. Also it seems it has been mentioned often in a lot of subjects. In addition to that it would be interesting to know if Lucid dreamers tend to meditate.
> 
> I don't know a thing about it except - take a deep breath. Could you all enlighten me those who know about meditating?
> 
> It seems very benificial *



Oh, any Lucid Dreamer who doesn't Meditate, should... especially in their Lucid Dreams.  One of my favorite Gurus once appeared to me in a Dream and told me that just a few seconds of Meditation in a Dream were worth thousands of hours of waking Meditation.  He was right.

I start my Lucid Dreams by getting in a Lotus Position, from which it is easier to fly higher, faster, longer, farther.  I always insist it is better to Fly as though one is sitting on a Magic Carpet than to fly on one's belly like superman... dragging one's dick across the sky.. so undignified and uneffecient.  Then I intone an AUM.  Instantly the Power that Meditation bestows shoots up into my head.

My best Meditative Lucid Dream found me at what appeared to be a gravel pit junk yard next to the railway tracks on the outside of town.  When I became Lucid, it became as beautiful as a Garden.  I intoned the Aum and rose up in the Lotus Position and suddenly the air shimmered in waves and became pinkish-violet in hue.  Then, 20 feet in front of me, the space rended open, and the White Light poured through.  It formed up into a grandiose and ornate Paramahansa Swan -- not like a live swan, but almost deliberately made to seem like a artifactual statue.  Several popular Yogic Organizations have that as their Logo.  The Swan of Light then jumped the gap and came into my head.  It was a wonder how it could fit.  The Swan of Light, 20 feet away, had seemed like the size of flag, half the size of a refrigerator.  But it zoomed into my head.  And then another one formed up out of the Light spilling out of the hole in Space.  And it zipped into my head.  And again, and again and again.  More rapidly, but each successive Swan became less elaborate, less ornate, more simple, until they were flying into my head many times a second and were finally just simple "V'ees" of Light, the way small children draw flying birds.

I often wondered what precipitated such a seemingly important dream.  I think it may be that for a year I had been doing the Gayatri Mantra -- the Mantra of Divine Light.  It is roughly twentyfour sylables.  The Hindus claim it is the Greatest Mantra, vieing in importance to the Primary AUM itself.  I think it may be a joke they are playing on the rest of us... that they all say that it must be said with perfect pronounciation, but everytime I hear a different recording of the Gayatri Mantra, it is done differently.  They must think it funny.  But after my own success with the Mantra I must conclude that proper, or uniform pronounciation could not be all that important.  I'll give you the Gayatri Mantra as below:

THE GAYATRI MANTRA

Aum Bhur Bhuvah Svah
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat


But other Meditations, Prayers and Mantras can be used to Magically effect Lucid Dreaming.  Just the other month I was reciting the first phrase of the Hail Mary prayer and was swooped up into Heaven in a vortez of spiritual energy.

It has always been a good way of testing various Prayers and Meditations, Mantras and such.  If they have any real power, you will see it in Dreaming.   Of course, there is one difficulty.  Prayers and Mantras that we have memorized very well in our Waking Lives, can be very elusive when we are in a Dream.  We aren't exactly the same person awake as asleep.  The Dream Self has some overlap with the Waking Self, but the Dream Self has its own memories... even its own life and continuity.  so it may be best to abbreviate any Prayer or Mantra you wish to try out in a dream.  Or practice the mantra in the dream as you would in waking life.. to make it a solid part of your Dream Self's Mental Inventory.

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## nina

> _Originally posted by Leo Volont_
> *dragging one's dick across the sky.. so undignified and uneffecient.*



 ::chuckle::  That quote really made me laugh!!! 

I would like to learn more about how to meditate in a lucid dream. I usually have alot of control so I don't think it would be too difficult? Leo I think YOU need to adopt ME!! Haha...  Also, I have recited the Hail Mary (as I was raised Catholic this is one of the only prayers/mantras I know...but I would also love to learn the Hindu one as well) over and over during a WILD and it eased my transition from wake to lucid dream and kept me conscious...but I have yet to try to meditate or pray or anything like that in a lucid. I am VERY interested in where that might take me, as I have read about other's accounts of travelling to other Astral Planes and OBEing as a result. I really don't know much about all that. I should probably make it a point to learn...if only I wasn't so lazy...

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## Leo Volont

Dear Lucidnina,

Oh, if you are already Catholic, then the first phrase of the Hail Mary is tailor made for you (Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee...  or considering the mental confusion common to dreams, perhaps it would be enough to remember to say "Hail Mary Full of Grace").  

Perhaps you have already met Our Lady in your Dream Adventures.  Think back.  Have you experienced any Goddess Like Character, Oracle, Wise Woman, Poetess, little girl who stepped forward to be a guide -- any such Manifestation may have been the Blessed Virgin.

For instance, in my Pope dream... that little girl who took me to the Pope.  After a few years of thinking about that dream it occured to me that the reason the Pope was reluctant for me to bow to him was because he KNEW that we were both in the presence of the Blessed Virgin, which quite eclipsed any Authority or Rank advantage he held over me, at least to his way of thinking.  I had been obvious to it at the time. 

But as enthusiastic a Catholic as I have become, I need to admit that nothing has proven to be more reliable than the good ol Sanskrit AUM, but then again, intoning an AUM had never swooshed me up in a vortex to Heaven, but the "Hail Mary" did.

Many Meditators swear on the AUM MANI PADME HUM... it is to Buddhists what the Gayatri Mantra is to Hindus.  

Oh, Lucidnina, by the way, do you wear any Religious Medals.  There is the Medal of the Immaculate Conception, known more popularly as The Miraculous Medal -- with Our Lady on the Front, standing on a half globe, stepping on a snake, with Her hands out from Her side angled outward with Grace flowing from Her hands, with a Radiant Crown upon Her head.  Circling around the Medal are the words "O Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recource to thee".  On the back is a big "M" with a cross superimposed within it, and beneath the "M" is the Sacred Heart of Christ side by side with the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  She gave a Vision to a young Nun in Paris in 1830 telling her to have the Bishop mint such a Medal, and that all who wear it about their necks would enjoy Her Grace for the asking.. whether or not they had faith or not.  There was one Atheist who wore the Medal on a dare for a bet and he was convinced when miraculous Grace was shown him.   At first the Bishop didn't want to go through many changes over what might have been the delusional prattle of a hysterical young lady, but Our Lady had also told Zoe Labore about a surprise Revolution that would transpire -- all who would live and all who would be saved.  It all sounded like nonsense.  Then it all happened.  Because the Bishop had the 'inside' info he was able to evade arrest and assassination.  So he definitely had the Medal minted after the dust of revolution cleared.

Every Catholic Religious Goods Store or Book Store has them... if you don't have one already.  I really doubt whether there is any better Spiritual Patron than the Blessed Virgin.  With Her you also get the Services of the Wise Old Man, who is Elijah, who had set up the Order of the Monks of Mount Carmel, originally the Essenes, whose mission it had been to protect and defend the Line of the Immaculate Conception -- for 7 generations Elijah's Brotherhood watched over the lives of Female Infants born with the Letter "M" appearing as a birthmark.  They would know such a baby would be born when a dead tree in the back of Elijah's Cave would suddenly bloom in Flower.  They knew it would be 7 generations.  So, when Mary was born, they knew EXACTLY who and what She was.   So if Mary has a Protector Saint, it is Elijah.

An Angel came to me last year and asked me, "Leo, why is it that Our Lady wears the Habit of a Carmelite Nun".  It took me about a month to figure out the answer.  It turns out that the Carmelites were originally a Jewish Order.  It was appended to Catholicism only during the Crusades when some Crusaders happened open the Monastery where a Chapel had been set up in a room that Mary had stayed in while hiding from Paul's Persecution, the one in which he murdered Stephen and many more which Luke didn't think it necessary to record.  So it turns out that She wears the Carmelite Habit because it is the Only Religious Order that is Essentially both Jewish and Catholic.  The Angels smiled when I submitted my answer... apparently I was the first Candidate to get the answer correct in a couple of hundred years.  When the Angels ask you a question, there is no hurry in answering.  Think about it until you have a surprisingly wonderful answer -- that is what the Angels are looking for.

Oh, that brings to mind a wonderfully romantic story... I found it in my archives...here, let me paste it: Also my researches upturned an interesting little Spiritual Romance Story.  It seems that there had been a faction of the Temple Priesthood that knew of the Blessedness of the Virgin Mary and that She would bear The Messiah.  These Priests had been in communication with a branch of the Essenes founded by the Prophet Elijah, the Brotherhood of Monks at Mount Carmel, who had tracked the Line leading to Mary for 7 Generations.  She was the answer to several hundred years of messianic expectations.   The Priests therefore arranged to find an acceptable husband for Her  (notice that an important faction of Jewish Religious Leaders were indeed well informed of the Coming of their Messiah, and would know Him at his Birth, and would see Him again at the Temple when He was 12, and so, during His Ministry some 20 years later would have had no excuse but to know Him again.  Their Rejection of Christ was conscious and deliberate.  Forgive them Father for they know not what they do, would not apply to any Member of the Temple Staff.).  In selecting a husband for little Mary they would rely upon the miraculous.  All of the eligible bachelors of the House of David were assembled and were asked to turn in their walking sticks.  That one who was destined to marry the Blessed Virgin, his walking stick would have to bloom in leaf and flower.  None did.  The Priest in charge of this was puzzled and inquired if every bachelor had indeed showed up.  Well, an older bachelor, Joseph David, who did not wish to be married anyway thought he could exempt himself, and so did not bother to attend.  Well, he was immediately summoned and was compelled to come quickly.  No sooner than when he entered the room did his beat up old walking stick bloom with these huge White Lilies, which then as now symbolize Virginity.  We had a winner!  It was said that Our Lady, then a 14 year old girl, asked for one of those Lilies, and saved it as a souvenir that She kept close by for Her entire life.  Well, most of the bachelors had been there because they were asked to be, and few had entertained any great expectations for themselves, suspecting their own unworthiness.  But one young man had thought that he truly had it all and was heartbroken when Mary went to the relatively old man who didnt seem to want Her anyway.  This young man was so disconsolate that he ended up by selling off his estates and becoming a Member of that Order of Essenes at Mount Carmel, where he grew old.  He proved to have been correct about himself  he did quite have it all.  He demonstrated himself to be a skilled and dedicated worker and than an inspiring leader, and after 30 some years found himself the Superior of that Order.  Well, by this time Christ had been born, grown up, had His Ministry and had been Murdered.  Then, during the first years of the New Messianic Cult, Paul began to conduct a Persecution in which Stephen was murdered, but also many others whom Luke somehow thought not important enough to write into History.  Our Lady, now approaching 50, was in danger.  So our young man now an old man at Mount Carmel discerns what his role must be and sends a covert delegation to quickly remove Her from the jeopardy of being a target for Paul and his thugs in Jerusalem.  After a lifetime with a broken heart he was finally able to become  Protector to that Girl he had fallen so much in love with decades before.  A sweet story, huh?  

.... but back to topic.  With Mary as once Spiritual Patron, one also gets the help of numerous Angels... they are all quite fond of Her.  You should see in in Her Throne room -- the Respect and Adoration they have for Her simply Radiates.  And even myself, who wasn't afraid to talk back to the Very Angel of God, when I am in the presence of Our Lady, In Her Throne Room, when She is obviously in the Role of Queen of Angels, even I would only speak after having been spoken to.

----------


## Oath

> _Originally posted by Je33ica_
> *When mediating, you should sit crosslegged in order not to fall asleep.  When done mediating, don't just open your eyes.  Slowly close your mediatiation and open your eyes slowly.*



it is possible to fall asleep cross legged actually. at least for me. i almost did it once when i was pretty tired. i was getting a really strange experience. i hope to do that again soon.

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## tboothby

I don't mean to disrespect anyone practice but I was taught and believe that when meditating one should never fall asleep or get tired. The mind must be trained to be both sharp and dull at the same time. Not to dwell on a thought but not to become unconcious all together. Anyways, do what you like. 

I have never meditated in order to put me in a state before going to sleep. When I meditate I actually have my eyes opened. I focus on the floor about 2 or 3 feet infront of me. Some people look at a little pebble. I concentrate on my breathing. I imagin in going in and out...like a liquid maybe. Err... yeah anyways...peace

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## evangel

> I always insist it is better to Fly as though one is sitting on a Magic Carpet than to fly on one's belly like superman... dragging one's dick across the sky.. so undignified and uneffecient. [/b]



  I guess that mIGHT be true if you are nude and also AWARE that you are nude. I always make sure I at least have on some tighty-whiteys first (or my supes outfit)... That way there's no "drag."    ::-P:  

I actually seem to like the "standing" position while flying. It is much more convenient because the dream body is always ready to move in any direction. Sometimes I like using a surfboard kinda like the silver surfer. If you are sitting or lying flat (superman) then I've found it awkward sometimes when you want to quickly change positions or turn around, see 360 degrees etc. And sometimes it is less "flying" than bending dreamspace. In other words I am not really moving at all...  the landscape and imagery or "matter" surrounding me moves towards or away from me, causing the perception of flying. This seems to increase my control/lucidity as well, since it is even one more step to realizing that I am not ACTUALLY moving through "space" but that my mind is creating imagery that  includes perceived "space" moving and warping and dynamic all around me.

As for not falling asleep while you meditate: I can see the logic that you would want to remain mentally active... which is EXACTLY why lucid dreaming is the perfect time to meditate. The conscious meditation practices that Buddhist monks and many others practice is done exactly to produce that same state of mind/being that is found in lucid dreaming.

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## Leo Volont

> _Originally posted by evangel_
> *
> I actually seem to like the \"standing\" position while flying. It is much more convenient because the dream body is always ready to move in any direction. Sometimes I like using a surfboard kinda like the silver surfer. If you are sitting or lying flat (superman) then I've found it awkward sometimes when you want to quickly change positions or turn around, see 360 degrees etc. And sometimes it is less \"flying\" than bending dreamspace. In other words I am not really moving at all...  the landscape and imagery or \"matter\" surrounding me moves towards or away from me, causing the perception of flying. This seems to increase my control/lucidity as well, since it is even one more step to realizing that I am not ACTUALLY moving through \"space\" but that my mind is creating imagery that  includes perceived \"space\" moving and warping and dynamic all around me.*



It's odd I never thought of flying about in the standing position.  I suppose I simply ritualized the practice of assuming a meditation position before levitating around.  But there have been times when I have flown about in the standing position by a kind of default.  This has happened when the transition to levitating was gradual, when in taking ever greater leaps, I would eventually end up entirely in the air.  I have to admit that it did seem natural enough. 

Yet I feel some attachment to the Lotus Position Flying -- the Flying Carpet Style.  Many years ago I had a dream in which I was attacked by some rather well dressed Sufis, they seemed -- largely green robes with gold trim.   They all flew up on magic carpets.  the attack was not very vicious.  I woke up after they held me down and the leader appeared to threaten to stab me with a pin.  It was a big pin.   Since then I have been able to stay in dreams despite instances of pain.   But, back to the flying, the way they were whizzing about, I could hardly suppose that there could be a better way of going about it.

----------


## eccentric

My own stuff first, followed by replies to others:

I have done a lot of research into various kinds of meditation. My favorite website is http://wildmind.org/ It has what I do. I only meditate  15 minutes every day so I don't burn out and quit. I also keep an "Om log" (even though I don't chant "om," just a joke) where I say the date, part of day, and what the session was like.
About.com also has a really nice meditation course.
This has 5 different kinds of Buddhist meditation. It will email one to you each week, along with some information to read about meditation and Buddhism. It tells you to do each meditation for that week (what's the point, otherwise?) so you can see what works best for you:
http://buddhism.about.com/c/ec/13.htm
Look at the links on the left, this guy has a bunch of other good stuff on Buddhism.

This page has a list of meditation in different religious contexts:
http://healing.about.com/od/meditationtype...erms=meditation

In my religions class, the teacher told about the Catholic rosary prayer, which is meditation. Buddhists aren't the only people that can reach enlightenment.  ::content:: 

I found this article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...1&dopt=Citation
through http://scholar.google.com/ (try lucid dream on it  :smiley:  )
It basically says that meditaition reduces pain and increases the ability to move despite pain.
The March 2005 National Geographic talks about some research that shows that meditation makes happier and helps their immune system. I think that is because meditation is basically the ultimate application of the placibo effect, but it also elicits the 'relaxation response,' which does good things   ::roll::   I don't feel like pulling my psych book out and seeing what it says.







> _Originally posted by Truthbearer_
> *The other day I tried meditating doing some exercises that the chakra deal said to do. There was a moment that I felt completely seperated from this world, I felt like I was nowhere. I had never achieved such introversion without being lucid, I guess. It felt pretty weird..*



I couldn't find this article last I looked for it (I lost the bookmarks I had it on) but it said that when they do brain scan on people that are meditating, their brains are VERY active. You'd think that since they are unconscious (after a fashion) their brains would be very inactive, but that's probably why it does so much good.
One interesting and very noticable effect it that one of the parts of the brain that is so active is the part that says where your body is. It literally thinks you are everywhere, which is where that buddhist thing comes from (A buddhist monk walks into a bar and says \"Make me one with everything.\")





> _Originally posted by hpnotiq+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hpnotiq)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				I've tried a few times with not much success! I'm going to try more often though.[/b]
> 			
> 		
> ...



Bodhidharma, a very famous Buddhist monk (he started Zen, which focuses almost entirely on meditation) fell asleep while meditating. He cut his eyelids off so he wouldn't do it again   ::shock::  So when you see a picture of him, his eyes are really big. That's why.
I just keep my eyes VERY slightly open.
In the book Zen Mind, Beginners Mind (I very seriously recommend that to anyone who wants to know about zen,) the author says to keep your stomach slightly pulled in. I have found that helps me concentrate, just something else to watch. It also helps me comfortably eat less   ::D:  (Placibo? Probably. What's meditation, anyway?)

I could (should?) probably write a meditation tutorial. Anyone want me to? I would, of course, go into deeper discussion about its relation to dreaming. Some research might be in order, too.   ::D: 

p.s.
My avatar is the kanji for zen  8)

----------


## LewisM

Hey Eccentric, that was a great post. Some nice links there. You should definitely do a tutorial! I know I would use it.

I've recently started mantra meditation. Im not sure what to expect. Some websites say that after a certain amount of chanting, one becomes enlightened and that you should chant a certain number of times per session. Personally I think that's pure mysticism. I dont meditate because I believe in summoning gods by calling their name, but i do like to get insight into problems by thinking them over, and I like the calm effects of meditation. 

If mantra meditation doesn't do anything for me, I'll have a look at some of the other types, maybe Ill try the about.com thing.

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## Leo Volont

Perhaps it is easier to understand what Meditation is all about when we consider where it is practiced and why such a practice arose.  Hermits, ascetics and those in monasteries are the primary meditators.  Food is scarce and often limited to what can be got by begging.  Work is not a factor.  So energy must be conserved.  This would seem to indicate a certain wisdom in the philosophy of sit down and shut up.  Particularly in monasteries where those of a Venerable Age do not wish to be disturbed by the young and foolish again sit down and shut up.  In the Orient many of the Monasteries are not so much for those who have volunteered for a life of spirituality, but are rather the homes for orphans  the children of deceased parents or the unwanted children of prostitutes who are dropped off at the doors of these Monasteries in baskets.  They grow up not necessarily wishing to remain where they are and they are kept by those who only support them from a sense of duty and because such beginnings were probably not much different from their own origins.  Nobody is particularly happy, so, again sit down and shut up.   Little food must be stretched between many mouths, and those who do not starve on the sparse diet learn to conserve energy  they learn to be skilled at sitting down and shutting up.

Does anybody ever become enlightened.  That is what is said, but of the millions of people today now practicing popular styles of Meditation, we cant say for certain that any of them are particularly enlightened.  Perhaps there is a kind of Enlightenment Myth that was perpetuated by these Starvation Camps for Orphans that went by the designation of Monasteries.  We might guess how these Enlightenment Myths arose.  When people are subjected to severe malnutrition there is almost certainly going to be some depletion in the B Vitamins which could bring on hallucinations and psychosis.  People became crazy enough to think they were Enlightened.  That was during their Manic phases.  We have enough concomitant myths of the demonic to account for their swings into depression.  Modern Meditaters who meditate as something of a hobby or lifestyle fad are simply too healthy and well fed to suffer the delusions of Enlightenment.

Not that I would dismiss these Psychological States as without any spiritual value.  Psychological States are real in themselves.  When Starvation strips away the body, then we see what a Soul is really made of.  Some would descend into a demonic and dark insanity, while only the best of Souls would rise up into Light and Bliss.  In this sense the Path the Psyche takes becomes objectively real.  A delusion is perfectly real to the person having the delusion.  One cant say it does not matter.  We can pretend that dreams do not matter, but we would worry if all we could have were terrifying nightmares, and who wouldnt sign up for a dream of rapture and euphoria every evening?

So Enlightenment may be very real, but it also may be a bi-product of malnutrition verging on starvation.  I doubt whether anybody really wishes to pay those kind of prices.

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## pdiddles03

when i meditate. i usually lay onmy back. i calm down all my muscles in my body by concentrating on each part of my body at a time.  and i breath in an out very slowly.  after i feel my body all calmed i imagin a ball of light entering into the top of my head. and as it passes by each part of my body . the body just goes absolutly calm.  after a while my body begins to feel like its disapearing to me.  usually starts with my arms and legs.  sometimes it feels like the room is starting to spin.  similar to when i get drunk sometimes. the rooms spins. lol.  but not as bad to make me wanna throw up.  but yeah eventually if i go long enough.  it feels like my spirit can't stay in my body any more so it trys to get out.  like my arms start to feel like they are floating out and stuff. feels cool.

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## eccentric

> _Originally posted by Leo Volont_
> *So Enlightenment may be very real, but it also may be a bi-product of malnutrition verging on starvation.  I doubt whether anybody really wishes to pay those kind of prices.*



I doubt that very much. Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, had an experience almost identical to Buddha's enlightment. At the end he saw the Heavenly Father and Jesus, so the delusional thing is definately possible. But he lived on a farm and got a lot of exercise and ate fairly well (probably not a whole lot, but he definately wasn't starved.)

What about the Hindu ascetics? They are very high class people (not rich and everything, but well respected.) If they wanted food, they could easily get it. Buddha did on numerous occations   ::D:  He wasn't fat like the chinese show. He was probably more like:
http://www.teducation.com/chopsticks/ascet...eticgautama.jpg
when he became enlightened. I don't know if starvation has much to do with it. If it does, I guess I'm a good candidate... (ok, so I don't starve myself, but I am DANG skinny.)
The Buddhists say there is a place you get to where it is basically just your core beliefs, fears, and desires. It is a dark and painful place (Joseph Smith almost lost it when he was there) Once one can get past that, I think is the same way one gets past the different levels of consciousness, he or she becomes enlightened.





> _Originally posted by LewisM_
> *Hey Eccentric, that was a great post. Some nice links there. You should definitely do a tutorial! I know I would use it.
> 
> I've recently started mantra meditation. Im not sure what to expect. Some websites say that after a certain amount of chanting, one becomes enlightened and that you should chant a certain number of times per session. Personally I think that's pure mysticism. I dont meditate because I believe in summoning gods by calling their name, but i do like to get insight into problems by thinking them over, and I like the calm effects of meditation. 
> 
> If mantra meditation doesn't do anything for me, I'll have a look at some of the other types, maybe Ill try the about.com thing.*



Thanks a lot! If someone will use the tutorial, I'll make it  :smiley:  Mantra meditation works great for many people, and I think that is one of the things about.com has. You may want to try that even if the mantra does work - if nothing else, it will let you see some different aspects of meditation you may not have otherwise noticed and how to use them with your mantras. Are you doing the "Om" one or one of the two mantras that Leo posted? If you want you can make up your own.

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## Leo Volont

[quote]



> Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, had an experience almost identical to Buddha's enlightment.



Here it would be easier for us to infer that Joseph Smith knew enough of Buddha's Experience in order to give him a great idea for some derivative fiction which he passed off as a True Experience.  Of the Buddha we knew that he had been a Prince who had given the greater part of his Youth and Manhood in Asceticism and Spiritual Quest, but Joseph Smith, on far the otherhand, had been a frustrated salesman who could never quite find the break that would make him Big, until he happened upon the idea of starting up his own Religion.

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## Leo Volont

[quote]



> What about the Hindu ascetics? They are very high class people (not rich and everything, but well respected.) If they wanted food, they could easily get it.



Again, of the millions of Sadhus in India, now and ever, how many have ever been enlightened?  I'm sure the Fat well fed Brahmins who retired into beggerliness as something of a lark, who could reside on the lawns of spacious country clubs, to be fed by the best cooks, I can be certain that they did not achieve anything beyond a selfapproving satisfication.   But the generality of India's Sadhu beggers are too many to be too well fed.  It is something of a Religious obligation for ordinary people to extend charity to these Sadhus, and although it is not openly resented, it is not often done with much enthusiasm, and the people do believe that a Good Sadhu is a very very thin Sadhu, and will do nothing to fatten them up.

Then you forget of the Virtue that is made of Fasting, this is, of not eating at all.  Fasting is only a Virtue in cultures that flirt often with Starvation.  If food was in plenty then Ascetics of both East and West would not place so much importance upon the ability to live with as little food as possible.  Again, Fasting becomes a survival skill.  We may imagine that during regional famines these Sadhus and Monks could actually have finally become socially useful in giving a general instruction on how to slowly starve to death with the minimum of discomfort.  Such instruction could have supported the ability of local authorities to ration remaining food stuffs with less chance of the danger of spontaneous Food Riots perpetrated by mobs allowed to remain undisciplined.

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## LewisM

Just thought I'd pop in and offer my opinion of Buddha's image...

From reading biographies of Buddha online, I found that it was popular at the time to try and reach enlightenment through fasting (as Leo Volont just talked about). However Buddha found a better way, a way in which you dont have to fast. Perhaps he is drawn fat as a symbol of this decision?

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## Leo Volont

> _Originally posted by LewisM_
> *Just thought I'd pop in and offer my opinion of Buddha's image...
> 
> From reading biographies of Buddha online, I found that it was popular at the time to try and reach enlightenment through fasting (as Leo Volont just talked about). However Buddha found a better way, a way in which you dont have to fast. Perhaps he is drawn fat as a symbol of this decision?*



Good point.  The original teachings of Buddhism were largely a reaction to Asceticism, Meditation.. in fact all serious Spiritual Practices.  And these Teachings were to catch on in the Urban Centers, among the Merchant Classes, and then among the Warrior Castes in the Rural Areas, all among people who wanted the Aura of Religiousity without desiring to do any of the necessary work.  Memorizing a few easy precepts would substitute for all of that.   Such teachings survive today in Hinayana Buddhism -- the last remnants of the Original Teachings which still hold some ground in Burma or thereabouts.  Everywhere else Buddhism evolved back toward serious and workable forms of Spirituality and Moral Religion, and is called Mahayana Buddhism.  The distinctive factor of Mahayana Buddhism is the BoddhiSattva Doctrine -- the Ethic of Self-Sacrifice and Moral Responsibility that is substituted for the stoical quietism of original hinayana Buddhism.

All of this is not to say that Gautama Buddha was not a great Religious Leader or even Moral Innovator.  But he was a product of his times.  Its been said of all great men, that their vices are the vices of the Times they live in, but their Virtues are entirely their own.  So it was for The Buddha.  Civilizations were collapsing.  The most that could be hoped for was that people could back away from the moral turpitude of the Barbarians and try to find some personal peace of mind.  The same influences in the West generated must the same Philosophy, as there is little difference between Western Stoicism and Eastern Hinayana Buddhism.   But with the Rise of the Secondary Civilization, in both East and West, Mahayana or Moral Buddhism took hold in Asia while in the West,  Christianity and Zoroastrianism displaced Pagan Amoral and Quietist Stoicism.

----------


## Led

after meditationg for 14 minutes cross-legged, my feet were numb. Is that normal?

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## Burns

> _Originally posted by ledzeppelin_
> *after meditationg for 14 minutes cross-legged, my feet were numb. Is that normal?*



You probably just cut off circulation to your legs by sitting cross-legged. And, yes, that is normal.   :wink2:

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## Howie

I found a neat little phrase in regards to the mental state of meditation.

Form Papaji

Still mind is temporary

"Meditation or concentration can result in a still mind. It is like a flame of a candle. When there is no breeze, the flame will be still. When wind comes, the candle will flicker and go out. Still mind will be blown away as soon as it encounters the wind of a new thought" 
 ::meditate::

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## Oneironaut Zero

I meditate, sporadically, but not nearly as much as I&#39;d like to. I need to set aside more time because I&#39;m about ready to get back into it, on the regular...

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## Setari

> Just thought I&#39;d pop in and offer my opinion of Buddha&#39;s image...
> From reading biographies of Buddha online, I found that it was popular at the time to try and reach enlightenment through fasting (as Leo Volont just talked about). However Buddha found a better way, a way in which you dont have to fast. Perhaps he is drawn fat as a symbol of this decision?
> [/b]



Buddha is drawn with a large belly as a symbol of the greatness of his hara, the believed center of spiritual energy, located roughly at the hips. 

As for the main topic, I try to meditate, but I often find myself ignoring it. When I do meditate, I sit crosslegged and focus on my breathing, allowing the energy to fill my body. It can be a chore to keep the mind from drifting, but it is also a chore to force it to focus. The key lies in finding the balance.

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## SKA

I&#39;ve been reading alot about Buddhism & Meditation, Hinduism & Meditation...etc But I figured out my own personal individual way of meditation. It&#39;s usually very simple. Sitting in my room, alone for a long long time (as long as I like) and just comming to myself and feeling free from social and other pressure. I usually do it with some incense burning and lovely ambient music playing. I simply found many things that calm and clear my mind and put them together in my own form of meditation. I don&#39;t stick to the traditions of Meditation but get inspired by these Traditional ways and then adjust it so it suits me best.

If anyone knows &#39;&#39;me&#39;&#39; it would be myself. I have found profound rest of mind with these meditations.

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## catsno

I just read the beginning post so i don&#39;t know where the conversation is now but this is an extremely useful site:  wildmind.org

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## Burns

> I just read the beginning post so i don&#39;t know where the conversation is now but this is an extremely useful site:  wildmind.org[/b]



Good link - thanks for sharing  :smiley:

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## clarkkent

> Good link - thanks for sharing 
> [/b]



Has anyone tried CP (Centering Prayer) ? It seems like it would be a very meditative prayer. I am trying it as the last step of lectio divina. I wonder about CP and lectio&#39;s effects on dreaming and LDing, most likely the latter will improve.

Another interesting resource on meditation across various faiths and disciplines is www.shalomplace.com. They also discuss serious problems which can occur with meditation.

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## SKA

Lately I have been doing hardly anything else than meditating. My life&#39;s kind of a mess at the moment, and my head is even worse of a mess: Like a Zilion thoughts, worries and Concerns are Racing through my head simultaniously: Which makes it hard to concentrate, become restfull enough to sleep at nigh and drives me fairly crazy.

Just like a man who&#39;s lost in Dessert just yelling out:&#39;&#39; Water...water......wwwater....WATER&#33;&#33; AAARGH&#33;&#39;&#39;
It&#39;s me, staring at the Ceiling with no sleepyness at all thinking"REST....REST...REST&#33; ...NOW&#33; AAARGH&#33;&#39;&#39;

I&#39;ve managed to tackle my Insomnia a significant amount with meditation:

I don&#39;t follow any existing Yoga Meditation Practise. More just my own version of meditation: Giving my mind some rest. To slow down the Chaotic Thought process and be able to clearly think about my problems and life. 


I spend hours like that, eyes closed, in a dark room..some incense and ambient music or preferably NO music or sounds. Just making my head clear of excessive chaotic thoughts and thinking about my life and Life in general.

Doing this before bedtime makes my Mind in the Right mood to sleep peacefully. Whereas usually I&#39;m too hyperactive in Mind to fall asleep at all.


I might read & learn more about Tibetan Yogas, DreamYoga in particulair.

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## triffidfood

> Just like a man who&#39;s lost in Dessert just yelling out:&#39;&#39; Water...water......wwwater....WATER&#33;&#33; AAARGH&#33;&#39;&#39;
> It&#39;s me, staring at the Ceiling with no sleepyness at all thinking"REST....REST...REST&#33; ...NOW&#33; AAARGH&#33;&#39;&#39;
> [/b]



LOL&#33;&#33; 

Great description.   ::content::    ... that&#39;s exactly how I feel right now (3:50am UK time, yawn)......   ::roll::

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## Ardent Lost

I used to meditate often, and i&#39;ve started doing some light meditation every few days again. Nothing transcendental, no amazing introspective experiences, just stress releasing, head clearing meditation.

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## SKA

> LOL&#33;&#33; 
> 
> Great description.     ... that&#39;s exactly how I feel right now (3:50am UK time, yawn)......  
> [/b]



thnx yeah I like methaphors and Symbolic Parrallel examples. It helps explain such sophisticated feelings and such to most people much easier and better  ::wink::  


BTW Thanx a BUNCH for that lik of WILDMIND.
Everytime I come across a Christian, Zoroastrian, Druze-whatever cult site I cannot Identify Myself in their Explanations on Meditation.

However the Buddhist Approach of Explaining Meditation, the Concious- and the Subconcious Mind MUCH more appeals to me: I really love the Symbolical Methaphors they use to make Sophisticated information Obvious and clear in one Sentence.

*Especially this one about our Subconcious, pure, Minds:* 
&#39;&#39;It is this pure and luminous state that I call your "Wildmind." This Wildmind, as I have said elsewhere, is not the wild mind that is disturbed by the winds of ill will, compulsive craving, or anxious restlessness, but lies beneath your wild mind like the still depths of the ocean lie beneath even the most tempestuous ocean. &#39;&#39;


PS: Man there should really be a Tutorial on Meditation ( if it isn&#39;t already there, I haven&#39;t seen it) Meditation basics other than solely for Lucid Dreaming purposes. a Meditation Tutorial containing the Basics of Meditation and Explanations, yet open to Individual preferances and aids & techniques.

It&#39;d be great and fit into the Spiritual Nature of these Boards.

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## Bladekillua

no i don't meditate :Cool:  sounds boring lol...its just not like me ...

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## Cyclic13

"Man in his search of joy and happiness is running away from his Self, which is the real source of joy. He finds himself very ugly and boring because he doesn't know his Self. A human being seeks joy in money or possessions, in power or human limited love, and ultimately in religion that is also outside. The problem is how to turn one's attention inward. "

Self-Realization

Of course I meditate. Everyone should spend at least 10-15 minutes a day away from distraction and within themselves. Don't let yourself go to the wayside on autopilot. It's the same as letting the tide take you in a random direction, you might not like where you end up. Therefore, you must continually get your direction and heading as to not veer too far off-course.

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## Keurslager

I do mostly gateway experience style focus 10 and 12 meditation, haven't hit the higher ones yet, gotta improve on my focus 12 still (and if you don't know what I'm talkin about check http://www.thegatewayexperience.com/ )

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## SEBSTER

OH hell yea! Meditation!!!!!
i love it its so enlightening and so relaxing...i tried it in a dream once but when i sat and closed my dream eyes i started like moving back and forth like if i was extremely drowsy and it felt real weird ya know? also sometimes my mom looks at me and says "don't be doing those stupid things! you're christian! " but i never care cuz its my mind...some ignorant people just will never change their minds about it.

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## wackomacko

i meditate i try to visualise rivers and try to actually feel the wind blowing on my face and so on. i find it helps with lding

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## Spamtek

I find meditation does less and less for me the more I try it.  If I attempt to meditate while in a good mood, I can quiet my mind and that's nice, sure, whatever, I'll do that for a half hour or so.  If I'm stressed out/in a bad mood, it only exacerbates my situation, takes the distraction of real life out of the equation and lets my worries and destructive thoughts go to town on me.  I know the idea is the quiet those, but when consumed by lousy feelings there's no reserve of attention or willpower within me to use to corral those thoughts up with.  And _either_ way I go about it, a half hour of meditation makes me feel groggy and tired, which puts a cramp in my style if I was having a good day and makes me fall asleep out of desperation if I was having a bad day.

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