# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  Mucuna Pruriens / L-DOPA

## Spamtek

Mucuna Pruriens, more commonly known as Velvet Bean or Cowitch, is a tropical bean that contains phenomenal levels of a substance called levodopa, or L-DOPA.  Levodopa is the direct precursor to Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Epinephrine, typically synthesized in the body from the amino acid tyrosine.

Levodopa is unique in that it can cross the blood-brain barrier whereas dopamine itself cannot; once in the brain it&#39;s then converted into a reserve of usable dopamine (and the other neurotransmitters as well).

Reading up on Wikpedia and elsewhere, I read enough things about dopamine / L-DOPA (its precursor, after all) to see if supplementation with Mucuna Pruriens might do anything for me.  My interest is triple-pronged:

1.  Dopamine levels in the brain appear to be related to motivational behavior; in test subjects (rats) low dopamine levels result in unmotivated, lazy, apathetic creatures.  In extreme cases they even lacked the willpower to move themselves to a food dish to eat, despite obvious signs of hunger.  _This_ interests me because I have been suffering for some time from what I like to call (half-jokingly) "extreme apathy(&#33 :wink2: ," where at times even things like walking to a dining hall or playing a game feel like immense wastes of time that couldn&#39;t possibly have any benefit.  My enjoyment of these activities doesn&#39;t diminish, but the drive to do them does.  I&#39;d like to see if artificially pumping my dopamine levels has any effect on this.

2.  Increasing dopamine levels in the brain appears to be a useful tactic for fighting Parkinson&#39;s disease.  _This_ interests me because while I don&#39;t have Parkinson&#39;s (lucky me), I do have a benign essential tremor in my hands that destroys my ability to perform fine motor movements with any sort of grace (my writing is chicken scratch, my lines are zigzags, my circles are... let&#39;s not get into it).  I have irrational hope that if pumping up dopamine levels can decrease the impact of Parkinson&#39;s, that it can have an impact on other sorts of tremors as well.

3.  *What you&#39;re all interested in*:  Dopamine plays a role in proper sleep and dreaming.  People with Parkinson&#39;s (low dopamine, remember) typically exhibit signs of sleep disorder to some extent or another.  Lab results on rats at least do show that animals with severely reduced dopamine levels are unable to sleep, and that increased brain levels of the neurotransmitter showed, as seen under brain scan, brain patterns mimicking those of REM sleep and the dream state, even in wakefulness.  Schizophrenics and psychotics (Who have _too much_ dopamine, all the time) are thought to experience their hallucinations and delusions because of their heightened levels of dopamine.  And finally, well, Wikipedia mentions that one of the "side-effects" of taking L-DOPA is "vivid dreams."


All this under consideration, I placed an order for a bottle of 60 500mg capsules of Mucuna Pruriens (w/ ~40mg levodopa per pill), and it should be here around next monday/tuesday.

Stay tuned...&#33;

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## SKA

My mom sais she has heard of L-Dopa being seriously risky. Many people who have gotten L-dopa as an experimental cure for some kind of brainvirus that puts you in a sort of zombie like wake-walk stategot good results, followed by their old problem comming back but X10 in intensity. Side effects were permanent Facial spasms and numbness of the facial muscles. She refered to the Movie &#39;&#39;The awakening&#39;&#39; which was based on a true story.

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## Spamtek

I've definitely never head of this magical brain-virus you speak of; all the clinical applications of L-DOPA I've heard of have been for Parkinson's.  If you can, could you get in contact with her and get her to clarify?  I'd like to know what I'm up against.

I've definitely heard my share of scare stories about it too, but it puzzles me because L-DOPA is, in the production chain of dopamine, only one or two chemical substances away from things we seem to consider a whole lot less risky: phenylalanine and tyrosine.  The full metabolic pathway (I'm probably using the word wrong... go me!) is _l-phenylalanine > l-tyrosine > l-dopa > dopamine > epinephrine > norepinephrine_.

I realize it's a "heavier" substance than traditional oneirogens and I mean to approach it with respect for that fact.  Frankly, I suspect that people using it to cure a zombifying brain virus are probably consuming the precursor in quantities far vaster than even the maximum dose suggested on these supplement bottles, which warn you not to take more than ~20mg or half a capsule a day.

(edit: l-phenylalanine is l-tyrosine's precursor, not the other way around.  Fixed.)

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## yoast

Sounds promising, looking forward to read your experiences with it.

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## Spamtek

I got my pillz.  There's little concensus on ideal dosing (mostly because there's little concensus on what use levodopa even serves outside the Parkinson's community), but I probably won't exceed 100mg levodopa daily.  I'll take one caplet now (40mg equivalent L-DOPA) and another right at bedtime, and I'll keep you all updated on how it goes, dream- and other-wise.

I'm not too afraid of the litany of side effects that Wikipedia mentions on its article on levodopa: AFAIK, these side effects were documented during Parkinson trials, and Parkinsonism-related dosing of L-DOPA runs in the range of grams per day (that's a lot!).  I'm nowhere near that ballpark - still, I proceed with caution.

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## Spamtek

*Day 1*

Mixed effects.  During the first half-day before I slept, I can't say I felt anything different whatsoever.

Last night was a troubling mix of variables.  I took my pruriens right before sleeping, and... my sleep was very chopped up.  I don't think I got more than a half hour or hour of sleep at a time.  My dreams seem to have been pretty wild from what I can recall, but I arose in a state where I was not very willing to wake up fully and try to remember in greater detail.  My alarm rang at 5:30 AM and I found myself bone-tired and with a raw, sore throat, so instead of kipping up and grabbing my journal I just rolled over and slept for another 90 minutes.

First impression is this must be the l-dopa in action... but other things might have caused the general unpleasantness too.  My roommate stole his blanket back from me that I've been using for a month, for instance, so I was sleeping with nothing but a sheet and was freezing cold all night.  I don't know which of the two factors did me in.

So I feel like crap this morning, probably a combo of whatever it is that gave me a sore throat and broken sleep, and of oversleeping because of that.  For the record, 20 hours in and I am feeling no alleviation of general apathy, hand tremors, _or_ humdrum dreams.

(edit: my eyes also burn with the rage of a thousand suns, but that may just be allergies to some as-yet-unknown plant, since they've been feeling sore for the last few days too.  And more sneezing.  So that could also be a confounding factor in what's making me feel warmed over today.)

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## Alprazolam

As a Psychology/Drug Major I would highly recommend AGAINST ANYONE using L-Dopa or any precursor to L-Dopa/Dopamine as a dream aid.

L-Dopa is EXTREMELY dangerous to mental health. As stated in your original text, Dopamine levels are directly related to an ENDLESS list of Mental Disorders. (Not just Parkinsons) Just because someone does not have a current disorder, they are most of the time brought out (Pushed over the edge) by messing with dopamine levels (I.E. Taking a stimulant drug such as cocaine, MDMA, Speed, LSD, or straight L-Dopa related products)

Bringing your dopamine levels up real high just ONCE can throw someone into a FULL BLOWN state of Schizophrenia or any other disorder that may go back generations in their family gene pool (Bi-Polar,OCD,GAD etc etc etc)

Then as your dopamine levels crash after being high, your mental well being will be not so comfortable, and present MORE threat for inducing MORE mental illness. It can also induce a short term state of Psychosis (A broken down and confused thought process in the brain)< Potentially what Parkinsons is for the brain > physical action.

Dopamine levels regulate  Norepinephrine, Epinephrine, ADRENALINE, and NORADRENALINE (Increasing)

Sleeping like this is can be tough for OBVIOUS reasons, as your mind is in a stimulated state- As you can tell for the first night.


Your logic for this is HIGHLY flawed my friend, and a potentially VERY dangerous thing, not only for yourself, but to passively suggest it to the public. Your messing with something very dangerous without enough research.

(I have personal experience in this. These stories are NOT scare stories. I took MDMA ONCE, just ONCE in my life. MDMA raises dopamine and tryptophan(Seratonin) through the ROOF, and ever since that one night I have never led the same normal life as before. I have now been clinically diagnosed with two Mental Disorders. Something that is life changing and that no one should risk going through for any reason, let alone a Lucid Dream.)


Everyone else should take heed of this as well.

This thread should be closed up for your own safety, as well as everyone elses.

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## Spamtek

Well, I may consider myself a learned Wikipedia scholar, but it would behoove me to listen to those who actually have more than hypothetical knowledge about the things I mean to put myself through.  If the more-or-less unanimous response to my proposal is "Holy shit, you're going to fuck yourself up, I know personally because of X, Y, and Z, you'd better stop," then I don't think any amount of evidence that I could scrap together from shady alternative medicine sites can compare.

So I'll abort the attempt for safety's sake.  I can't say my short stint with the precursor has done anything for the three things I mentioned in my intro post, but at least I'm not having a psychotic episode either.

I do still feel pretty shitty in general like I described in Day 1, but once again I was freezing cold all night long with nothing but a sheet to insulate me with, and there were jackasses in the dorm halls coming and going (and talking, and screaming) all through the night, so I feel I can still chalk up my decrepitude to circumstances over substances.  I'll be getting better sleeping conditions tonight; if the malaise doesn't clear in a few days I'll start to suspect Mucuna as a culprit.

Anyways, thanks Alprazolam - your concern has swayed me.  The bottle goes in the trash can.  Admins can feel free to lock this up, I suppose, although I might still want to update again for completion's sake to bring resolution to my "feeling like crap" conundrum.

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## Seeker

Thanks again Alprazolam.  Folks, be careful, better yet, don't mess around with this stuff unless you know EXACTLY the effects and risks.  Better still, don't mess around with it at all.  Everything you need is already inside your head!

Remember, DreamViews is not responsible if you get yourself messed up by trying somthing that has been posted here  :smiley:

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## Alprazolam

I can find much appreciation for the fact that you have accepted the knowledge instead of shunned it in a self soaked pridely manner.

You are protecting yourself from a very potentially harmful outcome, as well as protecting some of the more influenced minds of the community.

As for your feeling "shitty". It can be diverted to circumstance but I can almost assure you it is in the least, a combination of the two.

When someone takes a drug..lets say for example: Ecstacy (MDMA). The actualy compound (MDMA) Isn't what causes the affect. It's how the compound affects the different neurtansmitters and the synapses between them. (I.E. Dopamine levels, seratonin, etc)

So when a "user" is "up" with most stimulating drugs, dopamine levels and seratonin levels are up, way beyond normal production. Thus far giving the desired effects. (Energy, Euphoria, etc) As the brain realizes it has more than substantial amounts of any of these, it shuts down its own natural production.

Once these substances are metabolized out, the chemicles it had been affecting do not only reced down, but thus "crash" down as the mind is also making no more on its own.

This is what we like to call the "come down" or "scuicide tuesdays". Temporary depressions, mood swings, and mental uncomfort is guarenteed, as well as often times the body feeling some of these effects (feeling sick etc)


What I'm blabbing about to put shortly is: You messed with your dopamine levels. You most defineatly have some side effects. (How many times can we have a bad night sleep, and be cold, but still the next day not feel all that bad. And feel totally normal even the day after)

As for how long they will last, probably not too much longer as it wasn't an extreme change from what I can see and was only a one day thing.

(However it only takes one time to bring out a Psycho-Sematic episode, or a mental disorder- Which luckily you have not experienced.)

Good luck in the future my friend! Chalk it up as a learning experience, and stick to the staples.

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## REMemberDreaming

I don't think it's fair to say that all dopamine precursors are dangerous. Reasonable dosages of L-Tyrosine are safe because it's conversion to L-Dopa is rate-limited by enzymes in your body.

I would not use L-Dopa, but L-Tyrosine is fine if taken in low-doses. However, it is true that dopamine breaks down into norepinephrine (noradrenaline), so you would want to keep the dose low, or take something that reduces the adrenergic effect (e.g. magnesium).

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## DrTechnical

I've experimented with Mucuna. I have had no luck what so ever. It's seems to interfear with lucidity as far as I am concerned.

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## Moonbeam

Same here.

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## moe007

> I've experimented with Mucuna. I have had no luck what so ever. It's seems to interfear with lucidity as far as I am concerned.




From what i believe (and i consider my self pretty well educated in the supplements/vitamins field) you must take a pretty big dose to notice a difference, or for increasing your odds for lucidity. 

Dopabean is one brand that is OTC supplement for L-Dopa. The instructions on it say to take one capsule in the morning and one at night as a daily supplement.

If you want to use it for lucid dreaming, i would try for 3 capsules at the time of the WBTB, so after 4-5 hours of sleep.

Go from 3 capsules and work your way up. Do not start with high doses because if you had any imbalances in your hormones, it would be sort of 'activated' by taking a large dose of L-Dopa; or increasing your Dopamine levels relatively fast.

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## MindVoyager

I took 333mg of Mucuna Pruriens (.15 concentration) at a 01:30 WBTB.

The dream that I had afterward was very long, very vivid, and had two moments of self-reflection and several instances of intently studying my surroundings.  I did not have a DILD, but I feel like I came somewhat close.  I should add that I have not had an LD in years, but have recently taken up the practice again.  I am getting there.

What interested me about the intensity of this dream was that I had taken 3g of Piracetam 14 hours before going to sleep.  According to "Advanced Lucid Dreaming", this substance should prevent me from remembering any dreams at all.

I will try another dose of Mucuna Pruriens soon.  Tonight I plan to try 600mg of Alpha GPC at WBTB to see what happens.

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## jed001

> From what i believe (and i consider my self pretty well educated in the supplements/vitamins field) you must take a pretty big dose to notice a difference, or for increasing your odds for lucidity. 
> 
> Dopabean is one brand that is OTC supplement for L-Dopa. The instructions on it say to take one capsule in the morning and one at night as a daily supplement.
> 
> If you want to use it for lucid dreaming, i would try for 3 capsules at the time of the WBTB, so after 4-5 hours of sleep.
> 
> Go from 3 capsules and work your way up. Do not start with high doses because if you had any imbalances in your hormones, it would be sort of 'activated' by taking a large dose of L-Dopa; or increasing your Dopamine levels relatively fast.



i tried dopabean myself. at first i tried two pills; 100 mg l-dopa and had no real effect. i then tried 6 pills 300mgs l-dopa and had the best LD i have had in a year. both were done wbtb method. the next day i had no noticeable side affects to speek of. i am going to try 300mg again tonight

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## ryandfaris

L-Dopa is a precursor to dopamine. It's not like taking a shot of dopamine. As far as I understand when you consume L-dopa, your body uses it to it's own discretion. So if you're deficient it will bring it up, If you're at a normal level it may bring it up a bit, and if dopamine is excessive your body will most likely just flush it out. A drug like MDMA is much different in that it doesn't contain L-dopa, it just makes you wildly secrete more. 
In my opinion, if you want to try to even out (or just safely bring up) your dopamine levels naturally and safely I'd try taking Mucuna Pruriens every other day and combining with Meditation and getting a good amount of sleep every night. Quality definitely matters. 
Try Hyperionherbs.com

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## dwdream

My partner also has Parkinsons. Has a horriable time with sleeping. What was the result with using L-Dopa?

Thanks Doug

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## ethan_hines

I would like to point out that Dr. Oz is in favor of increasing Dopamine The Dopamine Diet | The Dr. Oz Show to reduce overeating by taking supplements namely L-tyrosine a precursor to Dopamine. 
I mean if Doctors are ok with SSRI's keeping Seritornin at high then normal levels, I don't see the controversy over keeping dopamine higher too?

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## woblybil

Just my 2 cents worth (or maybe more)
I have a whole drawer full of supplements for lucid dreaming but never use the same one twice within two weeks, What I have learned is that ANY! supplement taken more than one night in a row not only loses it's effectiveness but builds up in the system as most are active for much more than 24 hrs,  You can use it one night but it can stay with you 50 hrs or more and the next night you do it again and are OD'd and by the third day you will be Zombified..

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## Oneirin

I was interasted in mucuna a while ago, and still actually have a bag sitting around. I remember reading a post from a neuroscience student, however, that Mucuna in concentrations especially above 10% L-Dope may be very dangerous. He claimed that it could severely alter the production/homeostasis of dopamine within the brain- even though it's a precursor. I don't have too much more information on this claim, but I can see how intentially altering a neurotransmitter would lead to a crash of endogenous production, and a crash afterward. Has anyone heard anything similar?

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## xRey

I am so sorry for necroing this particular topic, but I found it in the google searches while looking for information and I made this account just to reply here. 

So I've been taking Dopa Mucuna with a 15% concentration on and off for a while now. First week I didn't notice any of the effects, maybe because the body needed time to adjust. I just want to mention first that this is the only "happy pill" that I take. I have PTSD as a result of child abuse from my family when I was younger and I always refused to take any real anti depressants for fear of addiction. But I have to say; this dopa mucuna extract that I'm using has been an immense help for me with calming some of the symptoms and of course with lucid dreaming. 

Now like I said this is the only mood enhancer that I take. I don't really have any schedule or a set dosage I just take it when I feel that it's needed. That means, every other day, or every 2 days. I normally take 2 pills with a meal before going to sleep.  Oh and the sleep... pfff.. it's crazy. I've never had such vivid dreams in my life. Not only that but listen to this: sometimes I'll be dreaming and going to sleep inside my original dream and then dream again there. Then I wake up from my 2nd dream which most of the time it seems so real that if I wasn't always getting away with the crazy shit I'm doing there I would actually think that was real life. I have SO MUCH control there it's not even funny. After I'm back in my orginal dream I loose some control but its still very vivid and I'm clearly aware of it too. 

In the past 2 weeks I've been taking 2 pills every other day and I've had lucid dreams 4/7 nights a week. I've read across the net that some people feel drowsy or just in a bad mood the 2nd day but I haven't really experienced this myself. If I felt bad in a day where I didn't take the pills it's because something shitty actually happened to me. And other than really improving my sleep and mood it also gives me slightly more energy to do things.

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## zelcrow

Hey xRey, that's interesting.  Did you ever have any LDs in your life prior to taking Dopa Mucuna?  If so, how often did they occur before you started taking the pill as opposed to after?  I just started reading Thomas Yuschak's Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements and it talks about how supplements can increase the profundity of LDs and trigger them frequently.

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## Darkmatters

Man, be careful with that stuff. Are you fully aware of the dangers? I've heard it can cause psychotic episodes, and people do totally crazy things while psychotic, like jumping off cliffs or running out into traffic or worse. 

Somebody above said a concentration more than 10 percent is extremely dangerous. How many mg are you taking per dose? Thomas Yuschak recommends for lucid dreaming dosages 80 – 200 mg, or just for regular use he says (not for lucid dreaming) up to 400 mg is considered safe. I would definitely not do more than that and I wouldn't take it more than maybe twice a week at absolute most, minimum of 2 days free and clear between doses, and even then I'd take every other week off if not two weeks off. Actually, to be on the safe side, personally I wouldn't do it more than once a week, or once every other week.

The problem is that it will build up in your system. Even if it doesn't reach dangerous levels that way, at the very least you'll quickly develop a tolerance to it and it won't have the same effect it used to, and that's when people will start taking more and more. Yuschak strongly recommends for any of these supplements give yourself plenty of time off between doses to let all of the chemical work its way out of your system, and then some. I know how tempting it is to want to jump in and do it as much as you can, but you really want to take a much more sober approach to it than that. The effects can be permanent. 

If you're going to mess with this kind of stuff you should most definitely get his book *Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements*. Learn what you're getting into and take care.

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## xRey

> Hey xRey, that's interesting.  Did you ever have any LDs in your life prior to taking Dopa Mucuna?  If so, how often did they occur before you started taking the pill as opposed to after?  I just started reading Thomas Yuschak's Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements and it talks about how supplements can increase the profundity of LDs and trigger them frequently.



No, not really.. maybe every few months. But back before I started taking the supplement I didn't know what lucid dreaming was or how to induce it. I only became interested in lucid dreaming since I've been taking these pills.





> Man, be careful with that stuff. Are you fully aware of the dangers? I've heard it can cause psychotic episodes, and people do totally crazy things while psychotic, like jumping off cliffs or running out into traffic or worse. 
> 
> Somebody above said a concentration more than 10 percent is extremely dangerous. How many mg are you taking per dose? Thomas Yuschak recommends for lucid dreaming dosages 80 – 200 mg, or just for regular use he says (not for lucid dreaming) up to 400 mg is considered safe. I would definitely not do more than that and I wouldn't take it more than maybe twice a week at absolute most, minimum of 2 days free and clear between doses, and even then I'd take every other week off if not two weeks off. Actually, to be on the safe side, personally I wouldn't do it more than once a week, or once every other week.
> 
> The problem is that it will build up in your system. Even if it doesn't reach dangerous levels that way, at the very least you'll quickly develop a tolerance to it and it won't have the same effect it used to, and that's when people will start taking more and more. Yuschak strongly recommends for any of these supplements give yourself plenty of time off between doses to let all of the chemical work its way out of your system, and then some. I know how tempting it is to want to jump in and do it as much as you can, but you really want to take a much more sober approach to it than that. The effects can be permanent. 
> 
> If you're going to mess with this kind of stuff you should most definitely get his book *Advanced Lucid Dreaming: The Power of Supplements*. Learn what you're getting into and take care.





My purpose for these pills were to help me sleep and boost my mood and productivity. The lucid dreams are just a bonus to be honest.. I haven't had reckless or self destructive thoughts since taking these so I can't comment on this. Everyone is different I guess.

I'd post a link or picture of what exactly I'm taking but I don't want people to think that I'm advertising anything..

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## xRey

I'm back just to update you a little on what's been going on. I've been off the pills for a little over a week now. I didn't notice any change in my mood except maybe I feel I'm a little more aggressive. I feel like I'm slightly more easily annoyed by things or other people. But other than that its been going pretty good. Oh and I haven't had a LD since I'm not taking the supplement. But that's fine because I want to try other things now.

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