# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Meditation >  >  Using Meditation to Attain Lucidity

## solpic

Hey all,

Who else feels that meditation helps them to attain lucidity? I don't consistently practice any LD techniques, but I meditate fairly regularly, and I notice that when I am meditating regularly, or especially right before bed, and I have been dream journaling I tend to spontaneously have a lot of LDs. Too bad I suck at dream control and usually just wake up. Specifically I've noticed that if I perform the equivalent of an accidental WBTB I'll have LDs about 80% of the time, which I attribute to my meditation.

Is there a discussion to be had here? I'm not entirely sure. But this subforum looked pretty lonely so I thought I would post here.

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## dolphin

Meditation helps improves my recall a lot but I still need a to set an intention to turn those dreams into LDs.

By the way, you could set up a Dream Control/Stabilization workbook here if you like to get help and improve. Talk about a lonely sub forum!

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## Ctharlhie

With no other intention or techniques, 10 minutes of mindfulness meditation daily causes me to have spontaneous semilucid, and even fully lucid dreams. Meditation combined with mild/SSILD/or other induction technique lets me have a lucid dream more or less on demand when my dream recall is good and I do a WBTB.

ITT: meditation may be the best thing to do for lucid dreaming other than remembering your dreams.

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## Dthoughts

I don't see a direct a correlation actually. While meditation does improve the chances of becoming lucid. This does not always equal that meditation will produce lucid dreams. Atleast not for me.

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## Ctharlhie

What does meditation mean to you?

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## lunagoddess

For those with success, does it work for you regardless of when during the day you meditate or only when you meditate right before bed?
I do awareness meditations regularly in the afternoons and it has absolutely no effect on my lucid dreaming.  In fact, I've had less lucids since I began meditating but I believe it is due to multiple other factors.

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## Ctharlhie

G Scott Sparrow used meditation during WBTB as his primary induction technique and I can confirm its effectiveness in my own experience.

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## Sensei

> I don't see a direct a correlation actually. While meditation does improve the chances of becoming lucid. This does not always equal that meditation will produce lucid dreams. Atleast not for me.



My man, you just described direct correlation. The more you meditate the more you lucid dream. We have no technique in this forum (or any place on the Internet that I can find) that you can do and it always produces lucid dreams. This leads me to the statement:
You cannot make yourself lucid dream, but you can greatly increase the odds.

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## Bobblehat

> For those with success, *does it work for you regardless of when during the day you meditate or only when you meditate right before bed?*
> I do awareness meditations regularly in the afternoons and it has absolutely no effect on my lucid dreaming.  In fact, I've had less lucids since I began meditating but I believe it is due to multiple other factors.



One LDer on here who has written about his experiences (I'm sorry, I can't remember the name) said that he meditates in the evening because it improves his recall.

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## Sensei

> One LDer on here who has written about his experiences (I'm sorry, I can't remember the name) said that he meditates in the evening because it improves his recall.



I believe that it depends on what kind of meditation you are doing. If you are just meditating with intent to LD or visualization, closer to bed is good. If you are meditating and trying to change belief on something (dunno what this is called) then the earlier in the day is better. 

For instance:
I meditate in the morning and the rest of the day believe that I am going to have a lucid dream tonight. No need to stress about it. 
I meditate at night visualizing old and new dreams and repeating my mantra "I'm dreaming" right before bed.

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## dolphin

> One LDer on here who has written about his experiences (I'm sorry, I can't remember the name) said that he meditates in the evening because it improves his recall.



Must be me! I meditate until I fall asleep, actually. 

Also, recently I've found if I do a mantra while I'm meditating, it makes my recall even stronger.

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## lunagoddess

Update:  Thanks for the input, I also answered my own question.  I did my awareness meditation yesterday right before bed and made subtle suggestions/intentions of lucid dreaming.  I had 2 interesting LD's last night (WBTB WILD).  Yay!

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## Dthoughts

Speaking of Mantras. I once repeated a Mantra as I was falling asleep, something like: I will remember to lucid dream. 

In my dream I was just cruising around on my bycicle and in the distance I heared myself say this mantra: I will remember to lucid dream.
And I saw a Billboard which said: Dreamviews.

My only thought was. Wow. Lucid dreaming is really getting popular  :tongue2:  I don't think I actually got lucid! The odds where definetely there though.

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## Bobblehat

> G Scott Sparrow used meditation during WBTB as his primary induction technique and I can confirm its effectiveness in my own experience.



What form of meditation did G Scott Sparrow use?

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## LLucido

It seems to me that meditation right before bed is a great way to get your mantra/intention deeper into your mind. Too bad i can't do it before sleep, becouse i feel so rested afterwards that i can't sleep, but from two days i try to experiment with the mid day medidation. I always get sleepy around 3pm, and then i try to go meditate ( i don't have much experience with meditation ), but i do it in slightly more comfortable position, and after i get relaxed and focused i let my tiredness kick in, and let the dream like thought flow through my mind but trying to remain aware.

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## Windweaver84

Hello, I Try meditating 20-40 min each Day. Some times more.
I found that I started lucid dreaming more. My dream recal was bad though. I did not know that it was called lucid dreams. I found out like a week ago. Been reading about Ld and started logging my dreams sense then. I ges my usual techeek is a wild but I hade 1 DILD ses I started logging and doing reality cheks. :-)

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## solpic

> I believe that it depends on what kind of meditation you are doing. If you are just meditating with intent to LD or visualization, closer to bed is good. If you are meditating and trying to change belief on something (dunno what this is called) then the earlier in the day is better. 
> 
> For instance:
> I meditate in the morning and the rest of the day believe that I am going to have a lucid dream tonight. No need to stress about it. 
> I meditate at night visualizing old and new dreams and repeating my mantra "I'm dreaming" right before bed.



I have personally found that meditating right before bed is the best thing, especially if you don't do anything before going to bed and meditating. Is meditation a permanent part of your LD regimen?

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## Sensei

Yes. I meditate often. I meditate at least 15-20 minutes a day and I spend more when I can.

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## FryingMan

> Yes. I meditate often. I meditate at least 15-20 minutes a day and I spend more when I can.



Look, look, Sensei made a direct, clear, non-cagey statement about something that he does every day for LD practice!   Let the trumpets sound!    :tongue2:   :tongue2:   :tongue2:   :tongue2:   :tongue2:   :tongue2:   :tongue2:   :tongue2: !!!!!!   I must be dreaming!  RC RC RC RC RC!

Kidding aside, one thing that I think is important to mention about meditation.   It shouldn't be something you do and then stop and forget about, returning to out-of-control mental oscillations between agitation and dullness.   

The reason meditation helps for lucid dreaming and life in general, is that it jump-starts a meditative mindset *all day long*.  Those minutes of dedicated practice are important, but so is striving to maintain the benefits/effects all throughout the day.

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## Ctharlhie

> What form of meditation did G Scott Sparrow use?



Just straight shamatha or vipasanna, I believe. Possibly transcandental, as that was in vogue at the time of his writing, but transcandental meditation is spiritual charlatanry, so I doubt it.

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## Dthoughts

Wow sync!  "GetDreaming" liked my post and just this morning I had one of these rare occurences where a mantra/activity I fall asleep with makes a dream entrance.

This time it was breathe meditation and in my dream I was a traveling oxygen inside my body  ::o:  not even sure if this is commonly classified as a dream  :tongue2:

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## kaylen

I just did a 10 day vipasanna meditation course,and it greatly improved my LDing,I had three LDsin the ten days and remembered multiple dreams a night(usually one )I also had a ESP dream where I dreamed a person I had never met then  met the person eight days latter

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## JustASimpleGuy

> G Scott Sparrow used meditation during WBTB as his primary induction technique and I can confirm its effectiveness in my own experience.



Interesting. After my daily 30 minute sitting, aside from a serene mind my whole body is entirely relaxed and it persists pretty much right up to bedtime. There's actually a very subtle and pleasant resonance (don't know how else to explain it) I can feel throughout my body, especially if I kick back on the couch and watch a little TV.

I'm thinking that would be a very good state to be in when attempting a WILD.

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## cmind

> Just straight shamatha or vipasanna, I believe .



I'm interested in learning about using meditation as a WILD helper, along with whatever other benefits it might confer. Where can I get more information about shamatha and vipasanna?

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## FryingMan

Google and you shall receive.

Dr. B. Allan Wallace wrote a book about Shamatha: "The Attention Revolution: Unlocking the Power of the Focused Mind."

The one thing I don't like about the book, which despite my not liking it may still be completely true, is that he says that without withdrawing from society (e.g., regular lengthy retreats) you can't make it generally higher than the 2nd of the 9 levels of Shamatha, and that most people will therefore not achieve it.    Well, dang, maybe that's something to put on the back cover or something.

In short, in shamatha one cultivates attention and focus (usually focusing awareness on one thing, like the breath).    And as I understand it, vipasanna is awareness of awareness: your focus is your own awareness & mind.     Some progress in shamatha is generally required before attempting to start on vipasanna.

Some people just sort of go back and worth: shamatha (breath focus) until you feel centered, then moving to vipassana, returning to shamatha when you feel focus slipping.

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## cmind

> Google and you shall receive.
> 
> Dr. B. Allan Wallace wrote a book about Shamatha: "The Attention Revolution: Unlocking the Power of the Focused Mind."
> 
> The one thing I don't like about the book, which despite my not liking it may still be completely true, is that he says that without withdrawing from society (e.g., regular lengthy retreats) you can't make it generally higher than the 2nd of the 9 levels of Shamatha, and that most people will therefore not achieve it.    Well, dang, maybe that's something to put on the back cover or something.
> 
> In short, in shamatha one cultivates attention and focus (usually focusing awareness on one thing, like the breath).    And as I understand it, vipasanna is awareness of awareness: your focus is your own awareness & mind.     Some progress in shamatha is generally required before attempting to start on vipasanna.
> 
> Some people just sort of go back and worth: shamatha (breath focus) until you feel centered, then moving to vipassana, returning to shamatha when you feel focus slipping.



Is there a guide either on dreamviews or otherwise that gives a no-nonsense guide to these techniques? So far a lot of what I've seen is buddhist stuff, which I'm not interested in.

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## sisyphus

> Is there a guide either on dreamviews or otherwise that gives a no-nonsense guide to these techniques? So far a lot of what I've seen is buddhist stuff, which I'm not interested in.



I searched a bunch and settled on two relatively short videos that I think are representative of the styles.

I would note that, strictly speaking, _shamatha_ and _vipassana_ are concepts, not techniques. That is why, if you search those terms, you'll see the topic sprawl into other applications like religion, philosophy, morality, etc. If you're interested in the concepts, you might not find any good non-Buddhist treatment of these terms because there is so much overlap with other concepts of the Buddhist worldview. And you're unlikely to find a Buddhist-style teacher give a no-nonsense explanation because that is antithetical to the tradition of Buddhist practice. Buddhist teaching is to guide the student to discover things through their own experience, not to dictate to them.

Anyway, setting aside the conceptual part, the words have become a prefix or shorthand for meditation techniques that cultivate certain mental faculties. That is a stretch of the language, but it is what it is. They both involve mindfulness (_sati_) to some degree, so "mindfulness meditation" is an acceptable but incomplete description of both. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. They can be done separately or complementary. In both videos, you'll see elements of both but I think each one emphasizes one over the other.

*Shamatha*
_Shamatha_ means "calm." They don't mention the Pali term here, but this video is a good practical introduction. The key thing is that you are exercising control over your mind, but in an effortless way.
Note the emphasis on:
- using the breath as the point of focus
- accomplishing something without effort, but rather "allowing" it to happen
- repeating the same thing over and over, without developing frustration at the inevitability of obstacles






*Vipassana*
_Vipassana_ is the understanding of the nature of reality, or "insight." It is the ability to recognize illusion and see through it. More practically, it is the observation of how your mind works. Rather than exercising your mind, you are more investigating it. Skip to about 2:20 in the video if the beginning seems like too much theory and preparation.
Note the emphasis on:
- being an observer
- welcoming and acknowledging thoughts, and then letting them go
- being aware if you are reacting to thoughts with preference, emotion, judgement, analysis

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## cmind

Thanks for the info and vids  :smiley:

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## BlackNoise

i can't meditate cause i have Tourette's. which is unfortunate since i would love to be a meditation master. it's like having no legs and wanting to be a track star.

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## cmind

> i can't meditate cause i have Tourette's. which is unfortunate since i would love to be a meditation master. it's like having no legs and wanting to be a track star.



Perhaps meditation and/or counselling and therapy would solve your Tourettes. I'm not a doctor.

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## ThreeCat

@Blacknoise: I have heard weightlifting can help Tourette's.  There is a book called "World's Strongest Librarian," which documents a man treating his Tourette's via weight-training.

But I would add that after browsing the internet, several sources say that meditation is helpful for calming tics.  I would try a meditation aimed more at relaxation, and then move to concentration later.  Alan Wallace's podcasts on dream yoga give a great exercise for this: https://www.upaya.org/2010/03/lucid-...-part-1-of-13/

But, a little off-topic.  Great elucidation from sisyphus.  I would only add that "awareness of awareness" ("shamatha without a sign") is just a more refined level of shamatha, and not itself the practice of vipassana.

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