# Off-Topic Discussion > The Lounge > Ask/Tell Me About >  >  Ask Me/ Tell Me About Social Dynamics

## Man of Shred

I started this thread. &#39;cause i noticed quite a few guys on this forum who obviously need social skills.
DV has seen many many threads like "does she like me?" "what does it mean when she does/says this" ,"Umm there&#39;s this girl..."
" If she eats fried beans does it means she&#39;s gay?"

 So, any advice on this type of stuff can go here&#33; Since i do have a little bit of experience improving my social life and skill set. I&#39;ll make some posts from time to time and provide some material on the subject. There are also a few guys who share the same kind of views that i do, and are far better at "the game" than I. so, i hope one or two of them may pop by here once in a while.

 I&#39;ll give a little background on myself concerning this matter. Once you realise how lame I was hopefully you won&#39;t feel bad about yourself as much in this area&#33;

 About 3 years ago I turned 18. I had only maybe a few girlfriends up to that point. The ones I had were short lived. They&#39;d last a couple weeks or so. Either i would dump them for being distant or i would get told "I made a mistake by going out with you". The only time I got close to having sex, was when i was 17. She practically tried to rape me, because i would refuse to sleep with her, i actually thought sex was a "bad" thing.

 And on my 18th birthday I realised that i was missing out on a huge chunk of life. Everywhere around me i&#39;d see my friends pairing off or being manwhores, or whatever. I just knew that there was something I just didn&#39;t get. The thought of starting a conversation with a woman i didn&#39;t know scared the hell outta me. I was frightened that i had no idea, how to make friends, or even "date" a woman. Once i realised this, looking back throughout my teen years, I made a decision to get this part of my life handled.

 I signed up for newsletters from "dating guru&#39;s" like David DeAngelo. His stuff got me on to a good and bad start. My mis-applications of his cocky/funny techniques got me plenty of slaps in the face. But some of his stuff enabled me to get into conversations with strangers, even how to get a Phone number within 3 minutes of meeting someone. It didn&#39;t matter If i didn&#39;t go out, or sleep with them. I now had a way to make friends easily. But, I&#39;m not an arrogant type of guy so i had to drop his stuff, because it wasn&#39;t working all that well for me.

 Next i discovered the dreaded Seduction community. in those forums i was overloaded with theory. Many theories and their applications contradicted each other. Some guys preached, using pickup lines and routines, while others preached being natural and in the moment. Some would say be a jerk, and others would say be a gentleman. I took a long time to sort through what was needed for me, and what to scrap.

 Next i made a commitment to GET OUT and be social. After many failures, I dropped the baggy/torn pants, Unkempt hair, loose shirts. and worked on myself. I gave myself a small makeover in one day, when i had a ton of spending money. Instead of walking around slouched, I walked with shoulders rolled back, and head a bit higher. I was amazed at the differences in how people would react to me. Women would start onversations with me, flirt, smile, you name it. jsut after a little thing like that&#33;  and I had never had anything like this happen before&#33; Also i had NO IDEA to react. But now, i at least had something to work with.

 I&#39;ll skip a lot of the story, Unless someone begs me. But basically over a period of time I reached a point where it was very easy for me to meet people, new connections. Got the sex thing handled. After all that work it wasn&#39;t THAT big a deal. but today, I realise I have not much fear when it comes to meeting strange people. It no longer frightens me to start talking to someone i think is cute. I&#39;m just saying IT CAN BE DONE&#33;

 rejection will do that BTW. I don&#39;t fear rejection at all now because in my adventures I&#39;ve had it bad. I&#39;ve had beer thrown in my face, One lady started hitting me, and pushing me over chairs when i talked to her. So basically it&#39;s pretty funny when it happens now. I love getting in all sorts of crazy shit now&#33; I still get it sometimes. But 9 out of 10 times, later on in the night at another bar/club/event I&#39;ll always find at least 1-3 women that are good looking/friendly/ and easy to get along with that i can Have fun with.

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## Man of Shred

k I found some basic material via. Youtube.

Some may have already seen this. This is pretty basic social skills getting instilled into clueless guys.

 Seduction school:

Pt1.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DYn4-h3Cnk
Pt.2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_C4ELcauk4
Pt.3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39S_Z3R4KWg
Pt4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFIlBT_T0d8
Pt5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI3f4Z0ybis

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## krookedking

Starting Lucid Dreaming actually made me less shy, I have more distance on real life...but still only a bit of alcohol can make me move my ass... ::D:

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## Man of Shred

lol alcohol can be good for eliminating fear. I have a tendancy to get TOO drunk. Alcohol slows your reaction time down and you will mis out on the subtle cues you are recieving.

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## krookedking

I&#39;ve analysed myself a bit: rare are the women I&#39;m attracted to, and if I see one I tell myself "I&#39;m not up to it..."
Suggestions?

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## ShYne123

This stuff really dose work guys, i used to be really into it, it really helped me break through my shyness, now i can pretty much approach and talk to anyone, and have converstaions with anyone while holding eye contact.

I used to turn red everyever i talked to anyone superior over me, or any pretty girls unless i was very comfortable with them. You could call it "proformance anxiety"

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## Man of Shred

> _Originally posted by techboy_
> *In all seriousness, what made me less shy was... growing up.*



well, techboy&#33; Understand that not everyone is you&#33; And you&#39;re right&#33; you gotta be a man, grow up. not just physically, but mentally and emotionally.

 But those statements "grow up" and "be a man". are vague and really don&#39;t say anything about _how_ to grow up. The easiest way is to confront your fears. Step outside your _conditioned_
behaviors and replace them with other Behaviors.

 Krookedking- simply tell yourself a different story. Instead of "I&#39;m not up to it". Replace it with "I&#39;m made for this". It&#39;s the same affirmations you use to remember more dreams and become lucid. After a while something sinks in. 

 You generally want a positive internal state. Notice from the videos i posted. The guys that were extremely nervice - It showed in their body language. They didn&#39;t smile, they were leaning in, the one guy was mumbling. If you have a powerfull and positive internal state, with a  bit of sexuality, will automatically take care of all those non-verbal things that are cockblocking you. And notice how after a while in the videos, the students appeared more confident - less tension in their face, voice tone, they were smiling. All these things communicate more than a pickup line, or routine will ever convey. And they had a right to those things because they had EXPERIENCE.

 So krooked king, keep these things in check. replace or shut off that internal diologue by ACTION. Just do it anyway. Don&#39;t try to be anything, just be natural.

 There&#39;s a saying in Therapy, about resistant clients. The resistance is not a statement about the client, but really, a statement about what the therapist is doing. in essence: The response you are getting is the meaning of your communication.

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## Aphius

Sucky Posts Removed, lets try and avoid senselessness outside the Senseless banter forum.

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## Man of Shred

Here&#39;s an interesting article i found on Eye contact. Shyne123 mentioned holding eye contact.
I have already field tested this stuff tons of time at bars, malls, etc. having the right EC, with the right wak/style of clothing etc. can eliminate some of not having to approach strangers, if your uncomfortable with that, and get them to approach you.





> Eye Contact Pickup Theory -- David Shade
> 
> Eye Contact Experiment
> 
> I asked one woman friend of mine "why did you go out with him?"
> and she replied: "because when I looked at him he kept eye contact with me."
> 
> When I recall the very successful people I have had the pleasure of working for in the corporate world, I remember that they all maintained eye contact while speaking to me. When you watch somebody successful being interviewed on TV, like Scott McNealy of
> Sun, you notice that they never look away from their interviewer&#39;s eyes and they rarely blink.
> ...

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## Artelis

> Sucky Posts Removed, lets try and avoid senselessness outside the Senseless banter forum.[/b]



booo&#33;

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## tyrantt23

> k I found some basic material via. Youtube.
> 
> Some may have already seen this. This is pretty basic social skills getting instilled into clueless guys.
> 
>  Seduction school:
> 
> Pt1.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DYn4-h3Cnk
> Pt.2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_C4ELcauk4
> Pt.3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39S_Z3R4KWg
> ...



  ::bowdown::  

Watched the first one out of curiosity and ended up watching all of them in a row... very helpful information. I&#39;ve been living near San Francisco for 3 months now, and the couple of times I went out by myself, I was pretty terrified... not knowing how to approach women basically. I should make a goal of going out this Friday and seeing how things go...   ::embarrassed:: 

Do you have more insights on how to approach women? What are some good open ended questions that help get the conversation going? How would I go about approaching a group of 3 or more women?

EDIT: very interesting theory on the Eye Contact Pickup. One question though... you start walking towards a girl, lock eye contact with her, but as you get near her, she looks away. Would you still approach her, or just go for someone else? Or am over analyzing and should just approach more women regardless, to get the hang of it (like on the seduction school vids)?

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## BohmaN

> k I found some basic material via. Youtube.
> 
> Some may have already seen this. This is pretty basic social skills getting instilled into clueless guys.
> 
>  Seduction school:
> 
> Pt1.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DYn4-h3Cnk
> Pt.2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_C4ELcauk4
> Pt.3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39S_Z3R4KWg
> ...



Thanks for all this.
Appearently I need it since I can barely watch when these guys approach strangers. I feel really uncomfortable unless I&#39;ve got alchohol in my body. Going to watch them all now&#33;

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## Man of Shred

> Watched the first one out of curiosity and ended up watching all of them in a row... very helpful information. I&#39;ve been living near San Francisco for 3 months now, and the couple of times I went out by myself, I was pretty terrified... not knowing how to approach women basically. I should make a goal of going out this Friday and seeing how things go...  
> 
> Do you have more insights on how to approach women? What are some good open ended questions that help get the conversation going? How would I go about approaching a group of 3 or more women?
> 
> EDIT: very interesting theory on the Eye Contact Pickup. One question though... you start walking towards a girl, lock eye contact with her, but as you get near her, she looks away. Would you still approach her, or just go for someone else? Or am over analyzing and should just approach more women regardless, to get the hang of it (like on the seduction school vids)?[/b]




 generally i don&#39;t approach them if they don&#39;t hold it. You can tell wether it works or not. some girls look away defensively - stay away from those. some won&#39;t say "hi" but it will seem like your look almost hits a sweet spot, when they suddenly squint their eyes and smile sheepishly, at that point say "HI."

 And yeah get the hang of it. you&#39;ll crash and burn at first but if you keep at it, you&#39;ll hit the right place eventually.

 remember- not all women are available.

 some women are already in a happy relationship.
Some women are lesbians and have no interest in men etc.

 take none of these things personally. if you get blown out. just get into another interaction right away.

 also do a "newbie mission" for warmup. when you pass any stranger on the street - smile and say "hi". when you get used to that, then do the KINO opener.

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## Indecent Exposure

KINO opener?

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## Man of Shred

ahem it&#39;s on the video&#39;s. touch them on the arm/shoulder when you approach...

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## BohmaN

> Here&#39;s an interesting article i found on Eye contact. Shyne123 mentioned holding eye contact.
> I have already field tested this stuff tons of time at bars, malls, etc. having the right EC, with the right wak/style of clothing etc. can eliminate some of not having to approach strangers, if your uncomfortable with that, and get them to approach you.[/b]



That guy is probably attractive getting all those positive responses... If a fat guy would do the same thing he&#39;d be ignored for sure.

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## ShYne123

Watch the video lol, girls love kino, they normally dont care, and most of them arnt as vein as us men.
We only think they are because most people that arnt confident with their looks dont approch.

I kino peoples moms lol, especially dates mothers.
They love it too.

(touch their shoulder, or instead of shaking hand putting their hand inbetween both of mine and waiting a second, while smiling and saying "hello&#33;")


It might seem like you are hitting on them, but they dont care mothers love it too  ::-P:

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## tyrantt23

Any tips on how to get a conversation started on the right foot? Any good approach methods after the "hi" along with the KINO opener?

I read of a pretty good icebreaker that I plan on trying tomorrow night... I hope its not overused:
"Who&#39;s the creep who left you alone with all these men?"   ::content::  

Any opinions? Anything else along those lines? Anyone would like to set a goal on how many women I should approach tomorrow?  :sweat1: 

I&#39;ll be by myself at either a bar or club, and probably pretty terrified since I&#39;m _really_ not used to going out without some good friends around me. Any remarks or last words of wisdom?   ::bslap::

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## Jess

Don&#39;t use pick up lines?   ::tongue::

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## ShYne123

--Send you a pm about this tyrant.

And i do manily agree with Jess..i normally just like the "hello" with kino, or asking a opinion about something stupid, and of course, with kino.


But pickup lines i guess can be helpfull.

My fav is "what do you think about my hair? Im growing it out."

From that the conversation can lead to fashion, anything really...even music. -> Easy to keep up that convo for most people.

Also it can lead to what a girl likes/dislikes about that hair, what she generaly infers about guys with longer hair that she likes, or dislikes about it. Then you can alter your personailty to be perfect for her.


For instance if she were to say, "I dont like guys with long hair becuase they are generally feminen" "But i do like it because they arnt cheep?" (Lol im just making stuff up, i cant think right now)

Then you alter yourself (deepen your voice, be masculen, and buy her something dumb lol)


I actually dont do that stuff, i like to be myself. Im not sure why i even typed that lol its called "elicting values" Im going to sleep.

GL Tyrant.

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## tyrantt23

> Don&#39;t use pick up lines?  [/b]



I know... I&#39;ve read a lot about using pick up lines. I&#39;m just looking for some witty lines; things I can say that could break the ice or renew the conversation if need be. 
The "did you just fall from the sky? cause you&#39;re an angel"  kind of thing is pretty ridiculous though.





> --Send you a pm about this tyrant.
> 
> And i do manily agree with Jess..i normally just like the "hello" with kino, or asking a opinion about something stupid, and of course, with kino.
> But pickup lines i guess can be helpfull.
> 
> My fav is "what do you think about my hair? Im growing it out."
> 
> From that the conversation can lead to fashion, anything really...even music. -> Easy to keep up that convo for most people.[/b]



Thanks for the advices ShYne123... haha, great thing to ask. lol... very unexpected thing to say. As far as changing the way I act... that would definitely not fly with me. I don&#39;t like trying to act like something I&#39;m not, and I&#39;m sure it would fall through sooner than later... then I&#39;d just look stupid.  :smiley:

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## CymekSniper

The eye contact article is quite interesting. I remember whenever we would have guest speakers in school, I would always keep my eyes focused on the speaker&#39;s eyes and they would seem to pay more attention to me and I would get the feeling they were speaking to me.

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## CymekSniper

I know we have some awkward teens in here, so I am going to do them a favor and ask: how would this work in a school situation? I am also a teenager but I am not asking for myself.

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## wasup

> how would this work in a school situation? I am also a teenager but I am not asking for myself.[/b]



Are you talking about the eye contact thing?  My guess is "Hey, that kid is creepy.  He stares at everyone."  That&#39;s about it.

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## CymekSniper

No, not the eye contact thing, the whole hooking up with chicks deal. I think if you employ eye contact correctly, then it can be a powerful tool/

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## ShYne123

Yes it works in school.

If your give a girl a evil stare...yeah she will be like wtf.

But if you just smile slightily and look into her eyes for a few seconds its wonderfull.

Or if you are talking and you stop for a second and stare into her eyes (like a movie) lol, than act like you just snapped back to consiouness and keep talking.

It will give off the whole (love at first sight, or bla bla bla)

Works wonderfull.

Social Dynamtics as a whole work great a school.

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## Neruo

Can anyone tell me the best way to deflect pepperspray? What? We were talking about dating and such, right?

HAHAHAHA, SO FUNNY.

Ok I am sorry. However, this topic can be quite interesting. A sausage-fest, but interesting nonetheless. I personally am as social as a rock, a rock that can talk and isn&#39;t a total loser, but isn&#39;t mr-popular. Basically, I have a few friends, bunch of semi-nerds, and I aint gettin&#39; laid.

But I don&#39;t really care, just getting better every day.

So.

SEX IS BAD, MKAY  :wink2:

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## ShYne123

I really hope ill never need to deflect pepper spray Lol.

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## tyrantt23

> Can anyone tell me the best way to deflect pepperspray?[/b]



Deflect? I&#39;m not sure... but as far as dodging:

1. Quickly pick one side (right or left)
2. Jump in a clumsy manner toward the side picked on number 1
3. Fall down while everyone stares at you, after you still failed to dodge the pepper spray

Before attempting to dodge the pepper spray, its best to read this tutorial.

Hope this helps.   ::bigteeth::

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## Man of Shred

Kino is great. you can even get playfull with it from the get go. With one girl the other night, i shook her hand. then i stuck my hand out again as i was talking to her, she shook it. then i stuck my hand out again. after a while she&#39;s like "LOL OMG I&#39;m dumb or something, i just realised i shook your hand 3 times lol". I give chicks noogies&#33; I did this at a rave last weekend and me and the chick almost got in a wrestling match&#33;

 I&#39;m gonna upload an ebook by Juggler. his stuff will give you a good idea of how to have good convo&#39;s and key things you can apply to any conversation to escalate the interaction.

 pickup lines will never get you laid. They&#39;re good ice breakers, but will start you off in the interaction from way back there&#33; the Kino is good with a "hello" or you can give her an intereesting compliment.
eg from the video

 Juggler: I really like your shoes&#33; I bet if you tapped them together you would go to OZ&#33;

 Her: haha blah blah blah:

 Juggler: I&#39;m wayne

 Her: I&#39;m x name.

 Juggler: Oh come on&#33; what&#39;s your real name?

 Her: Dorothy haha.

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## Man of Shred

I thought this article was rather funny and profound and thought i would share it here:

 Dimitri:
*
Explosions, Fast Vehicles, Money, Violence, and Some Sex (Real or Imaginary) posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007*

Refusal to be entertaining is important.

When a man with worse-than-average communication skills meets a woman he finds attractive, he of course wants her to reciprocate. Nothing wrong with that so far. But he neglects the fact that the woman he is interested in had done absolutely nothing to create the attraction in him! He is attracted to her just the way she is, without her investing any commitment into the interaction, just for her looks. By the same token, the self-esteem of that man is relatively low, so he believes that just the way he is he is absolutely unattractive to her. So he figures out what he needs now is to be entertaining.

And he begins telling stories he considers spectacular. Those stories typically include explosions, fast vehicles, money, a doze of violence, and a few sexually explicit moments from his past, real or imaginary.

Sort of like a typical Action/Adventure Hollywood summer blockbuster.

I seriously suspect that most of modern Hollywood screenwriters and directors battle some serious self-esteem issues. It looks like those guys believe that without explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and a few sexually explicit moments their works would be boring. That is why there is almost nothing else in the movie theaters except explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and sex scenes. Such is my theory.

The problem is, the woman whom our guy tells about explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and past sexual experiences, has heard it all before. In fact, if she fits the current social model of female beauty, she has already heard from men who tried to pick her up all about explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and their real or imaginary past sexual experiences, and that might have happened a few thousand times. But that woman is also polite. So she goes, oh, how exciting. Then she yawns.

There might be some exceptions of course. If that attractive woman have been struck with a sudden amnesia, she might not feel familiar with male stories about explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and past sexual experiences, real or imaginary. Or she might be from Siberia where men in such situations talk about vodka and bear hunting. In these two rare cases a woman might actually be impressed, even if slightly confused, as in: Why is this man telling me about all those things?

Then a moment comes when she inevitably asks herself another question: What am I so impressed with? Women check on their emotions at random intervals usually no longer than a minute. Then she answers: Oh, I see! I am so impressed because that man tells me about explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and his sexual experiences, which are probably imaginary. Got it! So I am not actually impressed with him as a person at all. Neither am I impressed with him as a man, because he is obviously trying to entertain me to get into my pants. I am just impressed by his stories. What a drag. But she is also polite, so she goes, oh, how exciting. Then she yawns.

Damn it, sounds like a no-win situation!

Now what if we imagine an alternative reality in which a woman is approached by a man of a very different kind. This new man is normal, and he also has a secret, which tremendously boosts his confidence.

So he walks up to her and starts a conversation. What do you think he talks to her about?

Explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and past sexual experiences?

Hell no!

He makes sure to secure her attention, introduces himself calmly, and then says something along these lines:

You know, today is Thursday, and every Thursday morning I do my laundry. Through the week I collect quite a few items I need cleaned. It has become a ritual. Watching them all tumble in the washer give me incredible peace of mind, it tells me the world is still a very safe place. What about you, what makes you feel safe?

And thus it continues. The man escalates subtly, and as he does, he progresses from boring topics to really boring to extremely boring one:

I am addicted to brushing my hair. I actually have a favorite hairbrush I would never share with anyone. Every time I run it through my hair it sends shivers down my spine. Tell me, what has a similar effect on you?

And the woman asks herself: Why do I feel so attracted to this man? He talks about unbelievably boring stuff, and yet I feel like I know him so well. He is so real. I like his lips. What is going on?! This guy is so fascinating. Not his stories, because he sure is not like all those other guys who just try to entertain. The man himself is so interesting. What is his secret? Oh. I get it. It must be chemistry. So this is how it feels to be in love at first sight!

And then our man shifts to the highest gear of escalation, and deploys the heavy artillery of boring:

POLITICS.

Politics works wonders when delivered with the proper vibe:

I feel particularly fascinated with the female members of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. I must admit, I do not understand British without the closed captions, but even just by looking at them, those gals totally kick ass. I mean, arse. What a style. I think the Brits should start distributing the videos of their Parliament sessions, now those would raise huge enthusiasm of the electorate!

:-)

And so on, all the way to the weather talk, tell me, what does the shape of that cumulus cloud make you think of?

Definitely not the Action/Adventure genre. Probably more like a Romantic Comedy.

Just the kind of genre that brings men and women together.

So what is the secret that has made that man so different? Well, the secret is simple. He spent his last weekend hanging out with a few new friends from Charisma Arts posse, in New York or in Boston, or may be in Washington, D.C., or in any other place where we run our bootcamps. And here is one of the things he learned:

Dare to be boring!

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## tyrantt23

That's a pretty good article... really interesting, but makes me wonder up until what degree it works. I  guess the only way to find out is to try it.

I think there probably needs to be a balance though. This is just a complete speculation, and I would want to hear the opinion of the more experienced type like you guys. But... wouldn't a girl start looking at a guy funny if all he talked about was boring things? I mean, he is definitely different than all the other guys that talk about explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and past sexual experiences, real or imaginary, but wouldn't a girl think it weird if a guy only talked about laundry, weather, hair brushing, and the way a cookie crumbles? Doesn't the guy also need to create a feeling of happiness and well-being on the girl, so that she sees the guy as being the stimuli for that feeling?

I guess through the conversation you need to figure it out "what makes her feel that way" to really see what type of person she is. One thing I agree though, is that talking to a girl about explosions, fast vehicles, money, violence, and past sexual experiences, real or imaginary, is probably more boring than the other really boring topics.

I don't know where I'm getting with this post, but just wanted to throw my opinion out there and see if you guys think anything of it.

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## Man of Shred

yeah it is a bit ridiculous. But i think the guy has a point when he says "Talk about something else wither than violence, sex etc". You'd be suprised how people react differently when you say the same thing a different way.

 I noticed particular lulls in conversations, when you talk to a lot of people you realise how much of conversation is just a conditioned response. 

 eg." hi, how are you?, what do you do? where do you live".

 Dimitri is just saying "Break the usual pattern."

 one thing i tried and failed at was being ridiculous. when i was asked what i did for a living "Drywall" sounds boring. so i said dumb things like "I'm an ass model. you know that scene in  pearl harbor where you seen ben affleck's ass? that was really mine". 

Now some women will laugh at that, and go along with it. they might look at your ass or say something like "WEll, I'm a photagrapher, you and I should arrange something :-)"

  If they ask again what your job is just tell them. Some guys say never answer a question seriously but be cocky and funny. Unfortunately, in my experience, those answers are ok and fun, only if you give them a  real answer later on. I've been blown out too many times by being too much of an ass. if you can't give a straight answer ever People will assume you are being evasive. Not too say that being mysterious isn't attractive. But if she's already attracted, you want to build rapport, so answer better.

 And no matter what you do, you can make your job sound interesting. Now i just say "You know when you walk into a brand new home, the walls are so smooth and flat that it just makes the paint glisten?... That's what i do!". A statement like that is probably not what she usually hears. plus it shows that you have a personality, and you might be passionate about something. just a thought.

 Juggler claims he can make reading his grocery list an epic tale. So it wouldn't hurt to try it. just don't go overboard like the guy from The 40 Year old virgin. When h tells his friend what he did for the weekend, LOL.

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## wendylove

Statistically, speaking if you ask enough losers out, one will yes. Well, seduction wise if you're having trouble stop being such a chump. Giving a highly competive thing like dating, pattarns emerge. The old T.V. brain wash romance getting replaced by warped NLP. I would say people with NLP don't get laided, however most people are stupid, and among the stupid people their are some who will say yes to you're stupid advance.

Don't be a loser.
Wendy

Well, I think my don't be a loser is good advice.

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## Man of Shred

umm excuse me. but can you quote exactly where i say to use NLP to pick up women? in this thread?

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## ShYne123

Just ignore Wendy, i think she is slightily insaine.


You can always read her posts..but like she skips words and stuff occasionally. -A little nuts. lol.

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## tyrantt23

::blahblahblah:: 




> Giving a highly competive thing like dating, pattarns emerge. The old T.V. brain wash romance getting replaced by warped NLP. I would say people with NLP don't get laided, however most people are stupid, and among the stupid people their are some who will say yes to you're stupid advance.
> 
> Don't be a loser.
> Wendy
> 
> Well, I think my don't be a loser is good advice.



Wendy is giving advice on social interactions???  ::rolllaugh:: 

Besides, like Ranma said, this thread has nothing to do with NLP.





> Statistically, speaking if you ask enough losers out, one will yes. Well, seduction wise if you're having trouble stop being such a chump.



Yeah, I'm sure if I went around spouting some stupid pick up line to 100 girls, at least one of them would get interested. However, I already know this is nowhere near the type of girl I'm wanting to talk to. "Losers" isn't my goal... if that's what you're shooting for, then whatever floats your boat...

You really should read a couple of posts in a thread before you start jabbering your (questionable) opinions.   ::shakehead2::

----------


## tyrantt23

> I noticed particular lulls in conversations, when you talk to a lot of people you realise how much of conversation is just a conditioned response. 
> 
>  eg." hi, how are you?, what do you do? where do you live".
> 
>  Dimitri is just saying "Break the usual pattern."



Yeah, I see what you mean. It seems that when the conversation starts out like that, there's not much place for it to go, and if keeps going that direction, the awkward silence is coming up pretty quickly.





> Unfortunately, in my experience, those answers are ok and fun, only if you give them a  real answer later on. I've been blown out too many times by being too much of an ass. if you can't give a straight answer ever People will assume you are being evasive. Not too say that being mysterious isn't attractive. But if she's already attracted, you want to build rapport, so answer better.



That makes sense... if you never give the real answer, I guess she also won't have much to relate to you. I'm the other way usually, just give the plain answer which isn't  helpful either. I have a hard time being loose/creative/funny with people I have just met... something I've been trying to work on through people I already know (if that makes any sense).





> Juggler claims he can make reading his grocery list an epic tale. So it wouldn't hurt to try it. just don't go overboard like the guy from The 40 Year old virgin. When h tells his friend what he did for the weekend, LOL.



Took me two seconds to remember the scene, but then I laughed out loud... really. Haha, that's such a great movie!

----------


## person-person

Hmmmm, interesting,

Ill try this out and see how I go.

If I can get a girl to smile or say 'Hi', or even stop to talk then I'm happy.

----------


## wendylove

Sorry I lable all crappy psychological advice as NLP.

Okay the thing is only loser or whores will sleep with you, if you want a relationship cut out the bullshit and be yourself. 





> If they ask again what your job is just tell them. Some guys say never answer a question seriously but be cocky and funny. Unfortunately, in my experience, those answers are ok and fun, only if you give them a real answer later on.



Be yourself, not a annoying prick. Come on only morons go for a cocky idiot, most relastionships that last are people who are friends first. If you have to put on a act, then you're a loser.





> I've been blown out too many times by being too much of an ass. if you can't give a straight answer ever People will assume you are being evasive. Not too say that being mysterious isn't attractive. But if she's already attracted, you want to build rapport, so answer better.



Rapport equals parrot the person, I don't know if someone would like to go out with a puppet, but I don't.





> And no matter what you do, you can make your job sound interesting. Now i just say "You know when you walk into a brand new home, the walls are so smooth and flat that it just makes the paint glisten?... That's what i do!". A statement like that is probably not what she usually hears. plus it shows that you have a personality, and you might be passionate about something. just a thought.



If someone told me that I would run the other way, if you want the crazy award do the above. Passion comes from passion not following someone idea of pulling.





> Juggler claims he can make reading his grocery list an epic tale. So it wouldn't hurt to try it. just don't go overboard like the guy from The 40 Year old virgin. When h tells his friend what he did for the weekend, LOL.



Seriously do you get you're techniques from films. Has anyone calling themselves Juggler ever got laid? 

Be yourself, that means cut the rubbish and the crappy techniques, come on their has to be one person who will be with you for who you are.

Ramma the anwser to you're help question is to be more forceful, take control or you will be controlled. Not listening to Juggler would help too.

----------


## Man of Shred

[quote=wendylove;422763]Sorry I lable all crappy psychological advice as NLP.

Okay the thing is only loser or whores will sleep with you, if you want a relationship cut out the bullshit and be yourself. [/ quote]

 Again Wendy.... actually read what it says in the thread. This is not crappy psychological advice. This thread is for How to be yourself, and not "manipulate". or whatever you think.

  I don't know what kind of CRACK you must be smoking... but it must be good shit. 





> Be yourself, not a annoying prick. Come on only morons go for a cocky idiot, most relastionships that last are people who are friends first. If you have to put on a act, then you're a loser.



 Again READ the fucking thread! I never said be a cocky idiot. I've tried that stuff and it doesn't work for me, personally. This is not about "putting on an act". It's about how to take control of your love life, wether you want relationships, one night stands, or just the ability to get out and socialise.

 I don't know if you've noticed this phenomena. It states that: So many guys were raised by their mothers with no father figure. These guys learn basically all the wrong things when it comes to learning how to get along with the opposite sex. These are the guys who stare creepiliy at a woman, or buy them things and give them attention without deserving it. These types creep women out a lot. some are stalkers, some commit violent crimes, because of their frustrated drives, this includes rape and  pedophelia. By teaching guys of this type the skill to take control of themselves and handle their love lives, a lot of this shit can be prevented.

 Besides, i agree with the "be yourself bit". But here's the thing. Most guys who are themselves, have no confidence, most of these guys don't take care of themselves in this this area. to alot of these guys, if being themselves was the answer, they wouldn't have these problems. But, by having someone help point out in themselves, what's good about them and attractive. They can incorporate and build new things on being themselves, better.





> Rapport equals parrot the person, I don't know if someone would like to go out with a puppet, but I don't.



 Again WHAT CRACK HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING????? Rapport is just a word, that describes a feeling of closeness with someone. it could be that feeling of closeness that you have with family. Or like 2 people in love. Rapport has nothing to do with being a puppet. 





> If someone told me that I would run the other way, if you want the crazy award do the above. Passion comes from passion not following someone idea of pulling.



 Can you please rephrase that in a dialect of english please?





> Seriously do you get you're techniques from films. Has anyone calling themselves Juggler ever got laid?



 Not that i know of. But i Do know I have Woman that I am fairly happy with, and it wouldn't have been, if not for his "advice".





> Be yourself, that means cut the rubbish and the crappy techniques, come on their has to be one person who will be with you for who you are.



 Again, for some guys to be themselves is a dangerous thing. About techniques: Is touching someone on the shoulder lightly when you first meet, as a way to help someone get comfortable with them a crappy technique?????? this only goes on in practically every social interaction?

 Doy you even know what a technique is LOL? when i first learned guitar, i used "techniques" and i used them until it was no longer a tehcnique... it became natural. You can take ANY human behavior, put it into a technique, and teach that technique to them. And they'll repeat it until it is natural. This includes social dynamics.

 Or have you ever watched a movie or, read a fictional story? and it gave you a feeling, or could relate to it? It's all just fake isn't it? yet you felt something?






> Not listening to Juggler would help too.



 I'm going to be giving a link to one of his ebooks. I suggest you read before you bash something.

 and again READ BEFORE YOU BASH.

----------


## wendylove

> I don't know if you've noticed this phenomena. It states that: So many guys were raised by their mothers with no father figure. These guys learn basically all the wrong things when it comes to learning how to get along with the opposite sex. These are the guys who stare creepiliy at a woman, or buy them things and give them attention without deserving it. These types creep women out a lot. some are stalkers, some commit violent crimes, because of their frustrated drives, this includes rape and pedophelia. By teaching guys of this type the skill to take control of themselves and handle their love lives, a lot of this shit can be prevented.



Reminds me off the thread with your picture in it.




> So many guys were raised by their mothers with no father figure.



Misquoting fight club.




> They can incorporate and build new things on being themselves, better.



I.e. changing yourself




> You can take ANY human behavior, put it into a technique, and teach that technique to them. And they'll repeat it until it is natural.



Yeah it called brainwashing




> Rapport is just a word, that describes a feeling of closeness with someone.



Closeness with a stranger, I have a word for that creepy.




> Or have you ever watched a movie or, read a fictional story? and it gave you a feeling, or could relate to it? It's all just fake isn't it? yet you felt something?



No

----------


## Man of Shred

[quote=wendylove;422830]Reminds me off the thread with your picture in it.['quote]

Yeah that's why several members also said I was cute. not to mention the fact that i get called "cute" everytime i go out.







> I.e. changing yourself



 yes, or adapting. if an animal can't adapt to it's new enviroment IE. Change itself. It will die plain and simple





> Yeah it called brainwashing



 brainwashing is when someone's mind gets taken over by somebody else. But if someone lacks a specific skill, and WANTS to change it. And they get the tools and skills necessary, to change it. then I'd say it's a pretty good thing. and not "brainwashing"

 Again think before you speak.





> Closeness with a stranger, I have a word for that creepy.
> 
> No



 Well, as much as you have an opinion on this. It's just an opinion. The REALITY is that people, gay ,straight, or lesbian hook up as strangers and fuck for a night and leave it at that. without any part, "buying" or whoring themselves or the other person. That's a social REALITY.

 Now if you're not that type of person. That's fine. Just don't post in this thread. 'cause from my perspective it's no different that a jehovah witness coming to my door and trying to "brainwash" me into their cult. 

 to quote the kickass pantera "Be yourself, By yourself, Stay away from me"

 I personally, wouldn't have a relationship with anyone unless i was already sleeping with them. And Ironically The longest relationship I'm having right now, started that way.... go figure.

----------


## person-person

I didn't make my last quote quite clear.   I should rephrase that, if I get the 'technique' to work, then I'm happy and would say it works.

I'm not this low life jerk/weirdo/whatever... (people generalising).  You two stop having a go at each other, respect other peoples' values.


Now look into each other's eye...

And apologise!

----------


## tyrantt23

> You two stop having a go at each other, respect other peoples' values.
> 
> 
> Now look into each other's eye...
> 
> And apologise!



Wendy is the source of the problem in this case my friend.

The thread was going perfectly well and on topic until she made a post with nothing to add except call people "annoying pricks" and "cocky idiots" without even taking the time to read the entire thread.

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## ShYne123

Wendy isnt even worth arguing with, shes prolly just some bitter ugly thing with no personality (which is what really matters) and shes madd at the subject because nobody has ever tryed to pick her up.

EDIT: There was a VERY mean sentence here :-/

Wendy -"No guys have ever tryed to pick me up,  :Sad:  :Sad:  :Sad:  , so im just going to make fun of all the PUAs becuase im dumb" Lol

Lol, she isnt worth arguing with at all, her posts arnt worth my time, I should make a thread. 

"Does anyone think Wendy is slightily retarded?" Yes or No.
"Can anyone understand 1/2 of what she says?" Yes or No.
"Does anyone think she might be insian?" Yes or No

Lol.

----------


## wendylove

> Lol, she isnt worth arguing with at all, her posts arnt worth my time, I should make a thread.



How long did it take to type that post up?
If I'm not worthy of you're time then I suggest not typing anything about me, it would make logical sense.




> yes, or adapting. if an animal can't adapt to it's new enviroment IE. Change itself. It will die plain and simple



Well I think the animal environment is different to the human environment. Well, unless you live on a farm or something.




> That's a social REALITY.



Yeah, but most people do drugs, drink lots of beer and play football. Do you know that most animals have sex with anything, now do you want to be a animal.




> I personally, wouldn't have a relationship with anyone unless i was already sleeping with them. And Ironically The longest relationship I'm having right now, started that way.... go figure.



Sounds boring to me.

----------


## tyrantt23

I'm going to start ignoring Wendy in this thread, because she's obviously not adding anything about social dynamics. She's just trolling and getting the thread off topic.

Wendy, if you want to keep your conversation going, make a new thread and I'll be more than happy to go there and once again, try to explain to you why you make no sense.

If you plan to keep posting here, then keep it on topic. This is an "Ask/tell about social dynamics" forum. You obviously don't know anything about social dynamics to tell anything, and even if you think you do, we obviously don't want to listen to your (questionable) advices. You're not asking anything, and no one has asked for your advice on anything... so please, stop your random jabbering.

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## Man of Shred

I agree I'll just ignore her from now on.

 I will welcome advice from women on here no doubt.

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## ShYne123

Any questions!! Lol.

----------


## Bayside

I'm not really all that shy, at least not anymore....  The only problems I have now really, are that I'm afraid to talk too loudly if there's too many people around, because I'm afraid of other people overhearing what I'm saying and then thinking the wrong thing or something, I can't really explain it....  

But the main problem that I have, is that sometimes when I'm talking to someone, or just get caught off guard with some random comment, I find myself at a complete loss for words, and just sit there blankly or smiling or whatever stupidly, and I just simply cannot think of a damn thing to say.  I just don't know what to do in these types of situations.  I mean, I can think of certain things to say, but they just seem too stupid and out of character for myself to say, and it would just seem weird....  Any advice there?

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## ShYne123

I know what you are saying.
I dont ever have a loss of words to that extreme but it happens.
I normally just give the person some weird look, like "are you crazy!" Or ill shake my head like "wow..." Or ill (sarcasticly) look up and rub my chin like i am over dramatizing thinking, normally you get a laff out of the person. 
Sometimes after im like wow, i should have said "this" but nevertheless, im glad i didnt something and didnt just stand there and look akward.

Hmm, me typing it and reading it, it sounds pretty dumb, but its what i do. 

Meaning, instead of looking like im stumped, and looking stupid.
I make them feel like "Well, that was a dumb question"

Ehh, best i can explain. Its always better to have someone think they did something dumb then thinking you did. If you did, they might think you arnt worth their time. But if they do something dumb, that makes them all the more want to impress you.

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## Bayside

Haha, I like that chin thing, that sounds pretty good.  Thanks.

----------


## Man of Shred

I totally relate.

 I'm following juggler's system of conversation. I agree with asking questions or making statements that are more open ended- that lead somewhere.

 egs "tell me about yourself? i want to hear everything!"

 "Tell me a joke"

 "what do you like about living here?"

 "what cool places have you been in the world?

 "Are you into art of any kind?"

 Basically they are questions that allow her to reveal something unique and interesting about herself. If they give too simple of answers. i ask what specific things about it.

 eg. "How'd you get your hair to look so colorfull like that?"

 her: I dyed it.

 ask what products she used or what method.

 If she gives a good answer or has a story about it. relate it toa  story about you. this should at least geta  good convo flowing. BUT what you sometimes run into is non responsive women. And yes there are some women that are TERRIBLE conversationalists.

 Or if she doesn't ansewr right off the bat and ignores the first question - keep quiet until she answers. The pause will create a vaccum and she will answer.

 for example i was talking to some cutie in a bar. her friend talked to her for a few minutes. I went on talking to other people while she did this. when her freind left her alone. I sat quietly, i didn't try to re-initiate the convo. In a minute she pulls out her purse and starts showing me pictures about her trip.

 See, desperate guys will do anything to keep a convo going. If you pause and wait for her to reveal something intetresting about herself, it can be VERY powerfull.

----------


## Riff

How do i get a mormon chick to like me. I think she does but she's just so predudice against non mormons, its crazy. Im catholic, shes mormon- so she needs a guy who can give her 'priesthood', mormons correct me if im wrong.

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## tyrantt23

> How do i get a mormon chick to like me.



convert.  :smiley:

----------


## Man of Shred

Hyptnotise her!

 I don't specialise in mormon women. I hardly specialise in women in general, Like i said I'm am a newbie to this stuff myself (practicing it anyway.).

I would just ask her out. This thing could work to your advantage. since you're somewhat taboo - if she already likes you, she might even more if you advance. I would use it to create some sexual tension. Create irresistible temptation! and remember the only way to kill temptation is to yeild to it.

 i wouldn't know any specifics but keep this principle in mind.

 eg from last night (for creating sexual tension)

 Me:  I want to do bad things to you... but i don't see how It's goin to work with a guy in his clothes and a girl in a dress.

 Her: you're right! we'll have to take those off!

----------


## Osimero

hmmm... this is a good thread. I don't have anything myself to add to the social dynamics topic, but I did find this great site a couple months ago. Check it out if you're into this sort of thing.

http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/diction1.htm

By the way, I don't really know how to make links so I hope I did it right. ::content::

----------


## tyrantt23

So, I'm about to head to Sacramento to go to a club, for the first time by myself since I moved here to the Bay Area... should be interesting.

"I just wanna dance man! I just wanna dance!"

----------


## Man of Shred

No matter what happens. Don't be a wallflower. Chances are you'll get rejected a lot. I suggest you get use to it! beside the successes you DO have you will tend to remember more and more, that will slowly build a powerfull confidence!

----------


## Infraredkelp

I'm a freshman in highschool and my friend has the hottest freakin chick in world for his sister (who is a junior in highschool) and she always has her super hot friends over for weekend parties. I just went up to one hot-ass chick who was totally drunk and said "wow, you're really hot." She was wasted as hell and she just hugged me. I found this to be a great opportunity to grab her ass  :wink2: 

Moral of the story, don't be a shy little bastard or worry about her "feelings" and shit. We are men. Leave that crap to the little middleschool girls. I'm so F*cking tired right now that I don't even know where I'm going with this. Peace

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## Man of Shred

haha. that's direct. I could see how that might work on drunk girls. BUt me personally what i am after, is women who have more going for them than their looks.

to each his own.

----------


## Man of Shred

SOI, sexual escalation and sexual barriers explained!

There is a magic point in the interaction when you know you need to escalate and don't know how to do it. The first part is of course using the word 'Sexy' in an SOI (Statement of Intent). However, once you have made a statement of intent, how do you escalate the interaction further The secret is push pull and sexual barriers. I have already outlined push pull in an earlier blog, so now I want to talk about sexual barriers.

Sexual barriers are amazing; they let you get away with saying the most over the top things but do it in a way that makes it easier. Sexual barriers tend to work really well when you do push pull. I always wondered how some of the naturals got away with saying some of the explicitly sexual things they said to women without being slapped. Now I understand so much better. It really is about using push pull to introduce an idea into a woman's head but then taking away the shock of it.

'I really just can't stop thinking about my tongue running up the inside of your thigh, however I just met you and I really can't tell you that.'

I watched Life is Beautiful this weekend and I realized how amazing his seduction of his wife was. He was fun and interesting and at the end of his date he says something to the affect of:

'I want to make love to you so badly, however I realize if I told you that it would be completely absurd and I absolutely wouldn't tell you that. In fact it would take an army to torture me before I told you how much I want to make love to you. I definitely couldn't tell you that.'

What a great line. This is the essence of a sexual barrier. You tell her what you would like, whether it is a kiss or wanting to make love to her, and then you put up a small speed bump like barrier as to why that can't happen. You want her to break down your barrier. If you leave it just saying what you want, you put so much pressure for her to have to accept it or deny it, she won't commit to accepting it. However if you put it out there and almost pull it back, she doesn't have to commit to it. It does put the idea in her head and make it known that is what you want.

The same thing goes with push pull as sexual barriers, you don't want to end on a push or make the barrier so high she won't try to overcome it.

'You are really sexy; if I had my way I'd take you home right now, but since I just met you I absolutely can't. Not in a million years would I sleep with you the first night I met you.'

That isn't a sexual barrier, it is the Berlin wall; she will have to change an entire political regime just to try to scale it. Try something like this:

'You are really sexy, I honestly can't stop thinking about taking you back to my place, even though it seems like we know each other so well, I have to remind myself we only met tonight.'

This lays down the idea of coming home with you tonight, but also sets a small barrier that makes her want to overcome her own worries about not knowing you well enough and seeming desperate. You just showed her you are worried about the same thing so she won't feel so bad revealing to you how much she wants to go home with you as well.

Sexual barriers are powerful from the beginning of the interaction to the end. When you want to kiss her you can use this:

'Honestly I have been looking at your lips for the last ten minutes and can't stop thinking about kissing you, but all these people are watching so it might have to wait till later.'

All the way to her having last minute resistance to sex:

'You're right, we shouldn't do this. Honestly, it would probably be too much for us both if you felt my hand skirting the top of your jeans sliding down to feel the warm wetness inside your legs. It might just drive us both crazy as I slip my hand inside you and you arch your back writhing in pleasure as you feel yourself getting closer to orgasm.'

Sexual barriers increase the sexual tension in an interaction. They also create a fun flirty vibe that is so important in escalation. Remember that unlike men, women are turned on by the idea of sex much more than the visual component of seeing a hot guy. Most men are turned on instantly if they see a hot woman. Women need the mental component to turn them on. Sexual barriers do that. If you are looking to learn how to escalate an interaction faster, take a risk and start introducing sexual barriers.

----------


## Oneironaught

So, let me ask you this, Guru: Do you think it's a realistic notion that some one could fall in love online? I realise it takes time and patience but, do you think it's even realistic at all?

----------


## Man of Shred

First of all! I'm not a guru. I'm still figuring a lot of this stuff out! i still get nervice when approaching women. and sometimes my interactions are less than ideal.

 For the online thing. While i don't reccomend it. it IS possible. It has been known to happen. When i was in ontario one day on my way home from work. I was on a city bus and struck up a conversation with a construction guy sitting next to me. We got talking about women, and he told me he was married to an australian woman that he met in a chatroom. They chatted a while. he asked for her number. And since it was in his financial bracket. they visited eachother and got married!

 So, If you like her and she likes you. i suggest meeting her. Don't waste time!

----------


## Oneironaught

> So, If you like her and she likes you. i suggest meeting her. Don't waste time!



Well, that's not exactly an option. But, it's always encouraging to hear that it's possible. I'm only trying to feel things out. It's confusing for me (well, all involved). I wouldn't jump into calling anything "love". That's certainly not the case but, you never know what the future may hold. *If* the fates happen to cast fortune upon me I hope to be prepared. And I can't ever hope to be prepared for something that's so improbable that it's a mere wisp in the breeze.

No, I take that back. That's all I can do. After all, even love in person is improbable and fleeting. If you let it slip away it will. The mere thought of the possibility is intriguing though and worthy of my attention, regardless of the outcome. Damn, I'm making less and less sense with every word I type.

Wait, who ever said I was talking about myself?  :Cool:

----------


## .:Rob:.

There's a lot of tips and advice for people who have a problem with actually approaching people and talk to them, but the area where I really need help is actual conversation. I can never think of anything to say to people and conversations that I have usually last about ten sentences if I'm lucky. The rest of the time someone tries to start a conversation with me and I usually reply once and the conversation is over because I've got nothing to say.

I didn't used to be like this though I used to be constantly saying stupid stuff that made people laugh and I was never serious. I actually made a concious decision to change my personality when I realised that the way I acted annoyed/embarrased my friends. Now I never have decent conversations with anyone other than my best friend, my sister and my cousin (pretty sad right ::?: ). Despite what you probably think from what I've said so far I have load of friends and go out every Friday drinking and having a laugh with my friends (when I'm drunk there's probably another 5 people that I find I can talk to but not for long before I run out of stuff to say). Really I just need to know how you actually keep a conversation going or start a conversation with someone without sounding totally random and stupid.

----------


## Man of Shred

I have the same problem some times. THe point is to keep yourself commited to an interaction. i have already posted a quick guidline for conversation:


egs "tell me about yourself? i want to hear everything!"

"Tell me a joke"

"what do you like about living here?"

"what cool places have you been in the world?

"Are you into art of any kind?"

Basically they are questions that allow her to reveal something unique and interesting about herself. If they give too simple of answers. i ask what specific things about it.

eg. "How'd you get your hair to look so colorfull like that?"

her: I dyed it.

ask what products she used or what method.

If she gives a good answer or has a story about it. relate it toa story about you. this should at least geta good convo flowing. BUT what you sometimes run into is non responsive women. And yes there are some women that are TERRIBLE conversationalists.

Or if she doesn't ansewr right off the bat and ignores the first question - keep quiet until she answers. The pause will create a vaccum and she will answer.

for example i was talking to some cutie in a bar. her friend talked to her for a few minutes. I went on talking to other people while she did this. when her freind left her alone. I sat quietly, i didn't try to re-initiate the convo. In a minute she pulls out her purse and starts showing me pictures about her trip.

 To give a further analysis: Use anything to open the conversation. this can be "hi", something situational : "wow i saw how fast you grabbed that drink! you get what you want often dont ya?". A compliment on something she's wearing.

 When you've opened. she will either respond positively. or she won't at all. I prefer openeers with a question that i want an answer to. If she doesn't answer right away, i wait. This creates a vaccum where she HAS to answer.

 then you can make open ended  statements, or questions. avoid questions that lead to yes/no answers but rather something she can describe. then you LISTEN to what she says and use whatever information she gives you to respond with a story about yourself. Don't ask her things that you already don't have a  story prepared for. When she says something that's unique to her that you like. STATE it. a statement of intent (SOI)

 for example: "not only are you sexy, but also a great conversationalist."
"wow, you pay attention to detail, where have you been all my life."

 when you run out of things to say. WAIT until she continues the convo (vacuum).

 Now, if you can tell she likes the interaction. LEAD. say on a high point when she accepts your SOI. if you can't think of anything to say. Do a close or venue change.

 from the video's i put on the first page. they describe how to close.

 you can venue change by saying "let's talk someplace a little more quiet." then you take her hand. and LEAD her to another part of the bar. or you say "I'm hungry let's go to a 24 hr resteraunt". and take her somewhere else. You can do this a couple times in one night and it will give her the feeling of having known you for longer than she actually has. creates Rapport. Also notice the statements aren't questions. You are the man and leading her. not asking her permission!

----------


## Man of Shred

OK: i found a good addition to go with the video's i posten on the first page. they are Podcasts for the seduction school videos. They have good examples of conversations with REAL people.



http://forum.charismaarts.com/podcas...apodcast12.mp3

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## .:Rob:.

Wow, that's some great advice, ranma187 ::goodjob2:: . Thanks a lot, I think this'll help me out a lot.

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## Man of Shred

As promised. here's some ebooks based around Juggler method.

 Why do i choose Juggler? because a lot of other Pick up methods focus on being a jerk, hyptnotising a woman, and lines/routines. Although this stuff can be usefull, it is a very limiting approach to what you can do. I want to have options when i meet people. Most methods only give you one way of dealing with a  situation. In my opinion JM (juggler method) teaches you a. how to be a good conversationalist. Gives key points to any interaction and not only that, gives a variety of things to do in any  of those situations.

 To elaborate Further: For those of you who've read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Remember the part where the whole communit has used all the same routines EVERYWHERE. Neil was running into women that had already heard his stuff a dozen times from other people. In those situations, he was stuck and wasn't able to adapt. And he dare claims himself one of the greatests pickup artists in the world!

 How to use JM: if you REALLY want to get good at being social and having lots of women in your life. wether you want a lover, or just the ability to meet new people, possibly sleep with them. If you are shy and have trouble, than i suggest you dedicate yourself. This means getting out 2-3 times a week. don't limit yourself to bars or clubs. Malls, Dancing Classes, Yoga, parks etc. are all great places to practice.

 Practice it systematically. first focus on opening. then, go onto conversation and SOI. Then practice closing. you can do one each on a different night. If you practice this sytematically every week. within 6 months to a  year, you will be amazed at how easily you will be able to do this. You will run into people you haven't seen in years and they will literally not recognise you!

 here are the books:  http://rapidshare.com/files/36440976...ethod.rar.html

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## tyrantt23

> So, I'm about to head to Sacramento to go to a club, for the first time by myself since I moved here to the Bay Area... should be interesting.
> 
> "I just wanna dance man! I just wanna dance!"







> I know you mentioned in the social dynamics thread about this. Keep us appraised on your developing social skills!



I meant to give an update of that bar night, but never got around to it. I still have some lingering questions though, so I'll give a little rundown of how my night went, and what my questions are:

So, I started out by driving 45 minutes to Sacramento. I was mainly interested in dancing, but also ready to engage in a few quick conversations. When I was walking towards the club I was going to, I met another group of 2 guys and one girl that were going to the same place. There was a big line and a cover charge, so we smoked a cigarette and talked for a bit. The conversation went alright, no awkward silence, no signs of them thinking I'm weird for being by myself. They decided to go back to the bar they were at before instead of waiting in line, and since I said I was new to the area, they asked if I wanted to come along. The two guys were very drunk, but a friendly drunk, the girl didn't seem so, but she was sexy and I was still trying to figure out if she was single, so what the hell, I went along for the walk.

Once we got at the bar, I was introduced to 5 more of their friends, and hung out there listening to some live music. Now, at times like that when I'm around complete strangers, I tend to be a little lost in the conversation and feel a bit out of place. They are talking about things that I don't know, and I'm trying to listen to all the separate conversations at the same time to _hopefully_ find a topic that I can relate to and then comment on it. What usually happens though is that I end up looking from conversation to conversation, not really knowing what they're talking about, and trying to look interested by giving smiles/laughing... when a topic does pop up that I may have something to comment, then I'm reluctant to say anything, because I wasn't paying much attention to that particular conversation in the first place, so I don't know if what I think is relevant really is. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, I went to get another beer, it was just me and the other two guys I met earlier were talking, the conversation was going good. Then they saw another friend, and introduced me to her. She was alright-looking. I'll call her Sara. Now, I'm not trying to be shallow, but by her looks, I didn't have much interest in Sara. I went out for a cig and she came along. We were talking for a little while, again, the conversation was going well, no awkward pauses, I tried to be funny a few times, but since I wasn't really interested in her, I didn't KINO, and didn't SOI... just chatted.

The guys I had met earlier (and the girl) all left while I was smoking the cig because one of the guys had to go be the DJ for some other club. $20.00 cover charge, so I stayed talking with Sara. Back at the bar, she brought me to her table... 8 other friends that I met. 7 girls, and one guy that I'm 99&#37; sure was gay (I have nothing against gay people by the way). Yeah, I was under a bit of pressure there, and feeling a bit out of place once again, but I just tried to keep some sort of conversation with the girl I'd just met, without closing ourselves from the table. It was a large group of people I didn't know, so the same thing also happened a few times, where I just looked from person to person, trying to capture the conversations and trying to comment on it. At the same time, I was trying to figure out which girl was good looking, which girl was single, which girl looked interested in me... yes, a task that's pretty much impossible, especially considering I never asked any questions regarding that subject. lol.

Fast forward a bit, the bar was closing down. "What now?" was the mutual concern... some of the girls were planning on going back home. Sara and her brother, came up with the idea of buying some liquor and going to the park in Sacramento to drink. Sara lives in San Francisco, but was in Sacramento for the night, so everyone thought "alright" to the idea of hanging out and drinking a bit more. Sara rode in the car with me. We all got to the store a few minutes late, and they weren't selling alcoholic beverages anymore. Her friends decided to go back home, and Sara asked if I could drop her brother at his place, and her at her parent's place (where she was spending the night at). Shurrr... why not?

On the ride back, turns out that she and her brother are huge fans of Bossa Nova type of music, so I scramble through some CDs and end up finding some, which happened to be her favorite song. Hah, bonus points for me... lucky draw. After dropping her brother off, she asks if I was ok to drive 45 minutes back home, or if I wanted to stay at her parent's house for a bit. Now, like I said, I never made any advances on her, and I wasn't all that interested in her, but she had a pretty nice body (not as much on face), and I have a real hard time saying no to advances from women 1 on 1 like that. So when I dropped her off, I asked if I could use the bathroom.

After getting out, she asks if I want to hang out for a bit. She was supposed to sleep on the couch in the living room that night, her parents already asleep on the room close near the living room. I thought it might be a bit difficult to do anything, but what the heck, I'm already there, so why not hang out for a little bit. We tried to pick out a movie to watch, and she says Elizabeth might be nice to watch because of all the pretty colors, so I was down with it. We sat down and the first scene of the movie was some people getting tortured and burned to death... ah, so romantic! She said she forgot how violent the movie was, but I didn't really care, I knew where this was going already.

We talked a little bit as the movie was playing, and after rapport was pretty built up, I turned my head and we started kissing. Kissing went to me being on top of her, to some mutual masturbations, to orgasm, to her giving me oral. She seemed very little experienced in it... just very plain, up and down motion kind of thing.... but its still not that bad right? Eventually I get another orgasm, and well... she keeps on with the oral. So, the scene at that time started getting a little awkward and funny to me. I had already had two orgasms, had the small little TV playing that intense movie in front of me, her parents are asleep next door, and her head is going up and down like a yo-yo on crack. I was already feeling very satisfied, but how do you go about telling a girl that "hey, can you stop giving me oral now?" If you know, please tell me. Instead, I just sat back and let it happen... just examined everything and found the whole situation very funny. After a few more minutes I actually had a third orgasm to my own surprise.

To wrap up this huge story of that night, we sat for a little while longer in the living room, with not much to say other than being polite and commenting that "wow, that was good." Then I suggested a cigarette and we both went outside, smoked, and that was my exit plan. When we got done smoking, I said I should probably head back home, I got her phone number, and drove the 45 minutes back home.

That was a week and half ago... and I haven't called her.

So, first of all, I'm really sorry for the huge story. Now, I just have a few questions and wanted some opinions from you all... am I too shallow for not being interested on her based on her looks? What is a good way to go about when meeting a large group of people, like the table with the 7 girls? Also... are there any etiquettes that most people follow for a one night stand like that? Am I an ass for not having called her? She said she would show me around San Francisco, but that would mean I would be with her, and not really be meeting other people/girls... so, I just never called. What do you guys think?

Once again, sorry for the huge post, hopefully whoever reads at least parts of it will find it a bit entertaining. That's all folks... I'm heading to bed now. Nite.  ::D: 

EDIT: OMG! After posting it I can see how huge my post really is. Damn... I don't blame you guys if you don't read any of it. hehe.

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## Man of Shred

Yeah i woulda spent soem time circling the bar. Push yourself to approach wether or not you think they look friendly or not. This is very hard to do. but trust me once you do it enough, doors will open!

 WEll i think she gets the message if you haven't called her. But if she wants to show you around and stuff.. and maybe she ahs girlfriends that are better looking than her. As for asking wether a girl is single. Just ask right off the bat, or into the convo later if she's single. "what's your relationship situation like?" If she has a bf, that doesn't mean she's off limits. just continue on like nothing. In the ebook i uploaded juggler talks about what specifically he does in that situation.

 For group dynamics. Just walk in. Talk to everyody and be friendly. Don't just approach one girl in the group because that would be too obvious. Talking to everyone BUT your target would also be too obvious. find out ways to address them as a group. If there are guys in the group, talk to them first and ask them if any of the girls in their group are the girlfriends. etc.

 anyway in my above posts i provided some links to material. These should answer a lot of questions.

No bother about the long post. When i finally get off my ass and go socialise I'll probly post a few field reports as well.

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## Universal Mind

This is a very complicated issue, and there is no single formula that works universally.  I don't claim to be a player king, but I think I understand things from a coach's standpoint, and that sometimes helps me when I try to play the game myself.  In other words, my ability to understand how all of this works and to explain it exceeds my ability to put it into practice, but my understanding sometimes helps my practice.  I'll tell you what I have observed and learned. 

The first thing to consider is that there are all kinds of women, and each woman requires a different approach.  There is no universal formula.  However, you can put the different types of women into major categories.  I put women into two major categories, each of which has subcategories.  You have to understand the natures of the categories to make things work effectively.  Also, there are categories of men, and the only relationships and even one night hook ups that can work involve the correct matches of types, with the extra clause that there is an acting factor that works into the equation.  

The two major types of women (None of this is meant to be insulting.  It is just a matter of nature that has to be dealt with.  Both major categories have their good aspects.):

1. Women with strong integrity and emotional and intellectual depth-- These women are usually very relationship oriented and are looking for men who are genuine and nice and who show that they are capable of loyalty and lasting romance.  With these women, games don't really have to be played, although some flirting is welcomed and helpful to some extent, but it is not what is really important to them.  Don't worry about games with them.  You can be yourself around them, and connecting with them is what it's all about.  But still try to not show much weakness.  Backbone and responsiblility mean a good bit to them, usually.  Every man has his type, and if this is not your type, then don't waste your time.  If this is your type, you have the gift of being capable of a very good relationship that can last as long as the rest of your life.  True romance happens with these women and the men that end up with them.  Excellent situation, if you are into that type of woman.  Unfortunately, many men don't have the right chemistry for them.  But be careful.  This category has a large faction of women who are seeking out men they think they can control.  The control tactic is mainly about making underhanded insult comments while giving a playful smile so the demeaning will stick.  The goal of that is to slowly reduce your self esteem so much that you feel like they are fit to control you and are justified in doing so.  Don't ever fall for that.  It will destroy your soul.  But the ones who are not into control and instead respect your humanity are the greatest women in the world.    

2. Women who are more concerned with the security that comes with a man's level of power or at least appearance of power.  They are wired to put that way above loyalty and kindness.  In fact, most of them don't really hold loyalty and kindness on any kind of pedestal romantially, although most of them appreciate it in terms of the friendship potential it offers.  Beware of being used.  The men who are made for category 1 usually don't have a prayer with this kind of woman.  These are the rock star groupie types, the bimbo cheerleaders, the bar sluts, and the unstable and whorish wild women who have no interest in Mr. Nice Guy.  None of these women even notice Mr. Nice Guy until they need somebody to listen to their problems and have a buddy.  These women are looking for gladiators and rock stars and often are very sickly turned on by disrespect toward them.  If you are not a gladiator (football player, male dominance obsessed redneck, etc.) or a celebrity or rock star, or at least in a rock band at all, your only hope is to play games.  Act cocky and funny the best you can, and do it like you MEAN it.  That goes very far with those women.  Put on the illusion you are something big, but you have to be very convincing that you are sure of what you are saying.  Never let your face show the first sign of doubt.  

It is also necessary to be a routine bullshitter, and do it with funny cockiness.  But try to make a connection, no matter how fake.  Keep the cocky humor going, but do it in such a way that you are still connecting and making them smile.  Never show any sign that you doubt what you are doing, and don't ever let on that if you are rejected it will be the slightest problem.  You want to come off like you have plenty of women and can 't get bent out of shape at all by just one.  Act light hearted, but powerful.  And again.... Act it out like you mean it.  A half job will come across as really cheesy.  Do a lot of smiling, and put on the illusion that you are totally comfortable and having a good time.  Bring about a lot of laughs, and act as though you and the woman are already friends.  Make her feel comfortable with you.  You might want to claim that you sing or play guitar for a rock band.  Better yet, the be all end all of getting this type of woman is to really be in a rock band.  It doesn't have to be a great act.  It just has to be one that exists and has some people mentioning you.  If she sees you perform in front of an audience, you've practically got a done deal, even if your band isn't very good.  And very importantly, don't act submissive.  You have to show dominance, but in lovable form.  Don't act like you are the applicant at a job interview.  Act like you are the boss and she is the applicant.  If you act like she is in control and you are anxiously being interviewed, it is over, unless you are in a rock band.  

The bottom line: Put on the solid appearance of power, and maintain it while putting on an affect of ease.  Keeping ease and connecting eye communication is the most important aspect of that.  Keep common eye contact, but don't look like a deer in headlights.  Make your eyes at ease and playfully seductive and welcoming with the appearance of surety.  You don't have to be confident.  You just have to put a full effort into appearing confident.  That is what is most important.  If you act like a king and act like you mean it, she will think you are a king.  Keep the attitude that she is lucky to be talking to you, even if it is just a method acting job.  

With that type of woman, don't make the mistake of searching and searching for common conversation ground that will help you hit it off.  It will never happen.  They are not hit it off types.  You have to just B.S. about whatever, and I mean WHATEVER.  Just talk about some insignificant bullshit, but act opinionated about it while showing total confidence and use your tone of voice to suggest that it is really a subject that is important just because you found it worth talking about.  But switch back and forth between that and maintaining the connection while bringing up subjects that mean things to her and letting her just talk.  Pay just enough attention to seem interested and throw in your playfully cocky two cents from time to time.  That is your best hope for conversation with that general type.  

Because there is a manipulative acting job involved in that, unless you are in a rock band or are a celebrity or very rich, many people are not cut out for it.  But practice goes a very long way.  

A good preparation is to go out a few times with the intention of getting rejected by as many women as possible as you practice your techniques.  Laugh after every time a rejection happens.  This will take away your fear of rejection, the ultimate killer of confidence.  When you see rejection as something entertaining and have no fear of rejection, you have nothing left but confidence.  That will work wonders.  

When you succeed, don't think it's time to start showing that you want a relationship.  You have to keep playing the same game for a while.  It results in arousal, and that is a necessary element for those situations to ever get off the ground before romance can ever start to work.  If she starts acting romantic, play back some but take it with a grain of salt.    

Like I said, I am more of a coach than a player when it comes to this, although I have some history of both, but I have studied this stuff to the bone and know what generally works.  Good luck.

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## Oneironaught

> 1. Women with strong integrity and emotional and intellectual depth-- These women are usually very relationship oriented and are looking for men who are genuine and nice and who show that they are capable of loyalty and lasting romance. With these women, games don't really have to be played, although some flirting is welcomed and helpful to some extent, but it is not what is really important to them. Don't worry about games with them. You can be yourself around them, and connecting with them is what it's all about. But still try to not show much weakness. Backbone and responsiblility mean a good bit to them, usually. Every man has his type, and if this is not your type, then don't waste your time. If this is your type, you have the gift of being capable of a very good relationship that can last as long as the rest of your life. True romance happens with these women and the men that end up with them. Excellent situation, if you are into that type of woman. Unfortunately, many men don't have the right chemistry for them. But be careful. This category has a large faction of women who are seeking out men they think they can control. The control tactic is mainly about making underhanded insult comments while giving a playful smile so the demeaning will stick. The goal of that is to slowly reduce your self esteem so much that you feel like they are fit to control you and are justified in doing so. Don't ever fall for that. It will destroy your soul. But the ones who are not into control and instead respect your humanity are the greatest women in the world.



Sounds like some one has been reading my mind. You describe the woman I want to be with almost perfectly, hopefully sans the whole "destroying your soul" part. And the underhanded comments aren't there either. Nor the control... to my observations. Take away the bad parts and bold the good and you have what I'd like to have some day.

Screw the one-night standers (well, actually, don't screw them). I could never understand wanting or pursuing that kind of woman. It just seems so cheap, like everyone involved is being short-changed.

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## Man of Shred

Universal Mind. your post is fucking money.

 keep in mind. I agree with his interpretation of types. I started this thread assuming that most of the guys here  are interested in type one. And juggler method certainly leans toward this type.

 If you are interested in quick flings, then read David DeAngelo, Mystery, Tyler Durden etc.

 However my philosophy, is that if you go for mainly type 2, you will not lead a very satisfying life if you want the relationship thing. And to me Relationships are more gratyfying and meaningfull to me as a person than just sex. (not to say that I don't LOVE SEX!). Plus surrounding yourself with this type of women will have a drastic, negative and unconconncious effect in the way you percieve women. In my philosophy that is unhealthy.

 And personally i feel better goin for the first type. Why? I don't have to use sneaky tactics, I can be myself around them more often. And more importantly they bring out the better side of me.

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## Man of Shred

Bump

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## tyrantt23

So, I haven't posted here in a while, but I've been reading the posts... well, now I have a situation at work that has prompted me to make a post and see someone else's opinion on it.

Where should I start... well, this new girl started working at the same place as me a week or two ago... and man, she's breathtaking. Very pretty face, nice hair, my height, and gorgeous blue eyes that I can't forget. I'm 23, she's 18.  ::?: 

Since she started there, I've been working on it, trying to get to know her better, trying to be at least a bit funny, witty, and nice at the same time. It's a little hard to talk at work, since it's so busy all the time (food court at Costco), the only thing we can do is quick talk... very small conversations, small questions, and one liners. She seems comfortable around me, though I haven't tried any Kino or SOI for lack of opportunity. 

Through these quick conversations, I found out she's just graduated form High School. She went to Mexico for a week for her graduation trip, got drunk every day. I also found out to my disappointment that she has a boyfriend. To my satisfaction, I also found out that her boyfriend lives in Washington (10 hour drive, if it's the state, a few days drive if it's Washington DC), and that she met him in Mexico. Now, in any other circumstances, I would never feel comfortable trying to be with a girl that already has a boyfriend. However, in this case where she got to know him for only a drunken week, and have been "going out" long distance for maybe a month or two.... well, I think I have more than a right to try to be with her. :p 

Oh yeah... I also found out she loves Tequila more than anything else!  ::drink:: 

I realized today however, that although I've found out all those things about her, I don't quite remember of a single time she's asked something about me. I don't even think she asked anything (non work related) to anyone else there. I'm starting to think that she's just a really bad conversationalist, very indecisive, and extremely shy. It seems like she gets very confused and doesn't know what to say... like when I asked her "how did that happen?" about her b/f living in Washington, she shrugged, seemed confused for a couple of seconds, and then said they met in Mexico. She seem to shrug and not know what to say a lot... which I don't mind, she still comes across as a very nice girl, but it just makes it a lot harder for me to get a feedback on how she feels around me.

So tomorrow (actually today, since its past midnight) there is a graduation/birthday party for our boss's daughter, and everyone in the food court was invited. Everyone at work is just really nice to each other, we all get along very well, and just about everyone is going to the party, as well as some of the older people, which should be fun to drink with. The new girl is acquainted with the boss's daughter, but she's very undecided about going to the party. When I asked her if she was going a few days ago, she said "I might, but I don't know if I'm working that day." When I asked her about it today, she said "I won't be able to, I work until 8:15pm." The party starts at 4pm, but the boss said she was expecting the party to go until 2am, so I said "well, that's alright, the party should be kicking until 2am, so that shouldn't be a problem" in response, she shrugged and said "well, maybe, I'll have to see what's cracking."  :Confused: 

I'm thinking that's probably her shy/insecure side that's afraid of going to a party with all these people she doesn't really know. I don't know though, I'm usually wrong when I make assumptions like that.

Well, I'll be stopping by Costco to buy a nice bottle of tequila before I head to the party. The time I'll be stopping by there, will be the time she'll be cleaning the lobby, and shouldn't be busy... so I'll talk to her a bit on my way out. I'll give her my phone and tell her to call me when she gets off work if she wants to find out how the party is going.

If she ends up going to the party... well, then she's just lame, and I'll still have tons of fun with my handle of Patron!  ::D:  If she does go, then this should be a nice field study on social dynamics!  Either way, I'll make another post on how it all turns out. Ranma, the first shot of that bottle will go to you man, for starting this thread.  ::cheers:: 

And just one last question... what is a good way to socialize with a bad conversationalist like that? I'm not that great of a conversationalist myself but I think she tops me by a lot... hehe.

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## Man of Shred

I'll reply to this later. You should read the ebook i posted. It might give some insight.

 It is true tho, some women are terrible at conversation. She probably already senses you like her. I personally have a rule about not dipping my pen in the company Ink. 

And I agree about the boyfriend thing. A good tip is: a lot of women have a boyfriend just for the sake of having one, and they aren't always getting into relationships they like. I've had women tell me within five minutes of meeting her say that her boyfriend hadn't slept with her in three months. Well in that case, I have every right to snag her away. A buddy of mine i used to club with told about a story where he was in the middle of having sex with a woman he met that night and she blurts out "I hope my BF doesn't find out about this!" classic.

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## Man of Shred

Ok one final thought Tyrrant.

 good for asking questions. But if she's not adding to the convo, and you keep asking questions you are in a way showing interest that she doesn't deserve.
Maybe try the vaccuum concept. It's like a reward system. you give them the opportunity to open up to you, and when they do, you reward them for their effort.

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## tyrantt23

Once again, thanks for the invaluable tips Ranma.  ::goodjob2:: 
When I open up the tequila and drink the first shot, it'll be to you... in a manly way.  ::D: 

I downloaded the e-book on my Linux partition, but I think I didn't have a program to decompress that format. I'll download it on my Windows partition and I should be able get it working.

Well, I'm gonna go buy the tequila here in a few minutes, so I should be seeing her. woo hoo!

*EDIT - Update:*
So, I stopped by there, got the tequila, talked to a few people from work briefly, including the girl, they all saw the bottle of tequila... hurray tequila! I asked them to sign a birthday card that I had gotten, then I went out to the lobby to talk to the girl once again really quick.

"So, you _are_ going to the party, right?"
She shook her head with a disappointed sort of look.
"Wha? How come?" I replied smiling
"My mom won't be home, so I'll be having a party at my place."
"Oh, well, in that case I gotta stop by there also to party, if the other party starts dying out. I'm sure there'll still be plenty of tequila left." Me still smiling and flirty
She smiled back but didn't say anything. After a couple of seconds, I said:
"Well, do you want to give me a call after you get out of work to see how the other party is doing?"
She readily took her phone out and handed it to me, so that I could put my number on her cell. I started typing my number on her cell, then called my cell phone from hers, so that I would also have her phone number (got that little trick from the seduction school video). I was kind of nervous though, so it took 3 tries of me calling my own phone from hers for me to type my correct phone number... lol.
I handed the phone back to her. I didn't know what else to say so before I started walking out I said "Well, I'll see you later. Don't have too much fun at work." -- what a lame line. lol.
Then As I started walking out, I turned around and while walking backwards said "Do give me a call when you get off work though..." while smiling and flirty once again.
She opened her mouth as if she was about to say something, but didn't. I took a couple more steps backwards, then turned back around and started walking towards the exit with tequila in hand.

Oh boy... I'm acting like a 10 year old school girl...  ::rolleyes:: 

She gets off work at 8:15pm, I'm heading out to the party at 8:00 or 8:30. I'll give her a call around 10... 10:30 if she doesn't call me. Until then, I'll be drinking lightly just in case I do end up going to her place. Right now though I'm just thinking:
"Expect the worst, hope for the best"

*EDIT - Update:*
Heading to the first party now! Whoot.... tequila amigos!!! Arriba arriba!

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## tyrantt23

*Latest News Flash*

Just got back from the party... it was fun. Karaoke, good food, and plenty of tequila and beer... hmmmmm. The girl didn't call me, so I called her at 11pm but got the machine, at midnight the same thing, so I just left it alone. I ended up still having a great time at the party, though it was a bit more family oriented than I'd planned. hehe.

I'm not worried that she didn't call though. She's the one losing if she's not interested in me... I'm a great boyfriend. lol.  ::banana:: 

For real though. I drank a little bit so I'm rambling. Since she didn't seem interested in hanging out, I'll just let it drop. I'll still be nice. However, I plan on not trying to get a conversation started, to create that vacuum than *Ranma* talks about. I'll wait for _her_ to start a conversation. If she doesn't, I'm not worried, my day will go by easier without having to think of something clever to say. :p

I'm off... gotta work tomorrow morning... adios!

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## Man of Shred

cool stuff dude. you don't have to get it all in the first go. you're practicing and that's what counts.

 I had a shitty night. i was supposed to go clubbing but my cousin wanted to see strippers. the strippers weren't bad but i'm not too fond of that entertainment. we were supposed to go to the club afterwards but my cousin got drunk and dropped his cell, then he insisted on going home to fix it. I better just go by myself next time with some cab money.

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## Oneironaught

> I had a shitty night. i was supposed to go clubbing but my cousin wanted to see strippers. the strippers weren't bad but i'm not too fond of that entertainment.



Them f*cking strippers... I was dating a woman when I was around 16-17. She was 23. Anyway, we dated for a few months and had a bunch of fun. Then, one day at her home, I found out the truth of the situation: she was a damn slut, a stripper, and a low-life heart-breaker. She was screwing more guys than you could possibly imagine. I'm just glad I didn't catch anything from her.

I felt so used and violated. It's weird, most guys think they'd love to date a stripper but, believe me, it's complete BS.

I learned two things that day:

1) *Don't* pick up woman in bars.
2) Strippers are f*cking whores. You may think the thought is attractive but nothing is farther from the truth. There's nothing attractive about some one whose hobby is to play with hearts and spread their attention - and everything else - all over town.

----------


## Man of Shred

well you can meet some good women in bars. you just gotta screen the bad one's out. Set up a couple of shit tests like i described in the cheating thread.

good places to met women are in parks, and bookstores. I'm sure this time of year there are plenty of show and shines. get out too a few. Cars and chicks... nuff said.

----------


## tyrantt23

> cool stuff dude. you don't have to get it all in the first go. you're practicing and that's what counts.



Good point...





> well you can meet some good women in bars. you just gotta screen the bad one's out. Set up a couple of shit tests like i described in the cheating thread.
> 
> good places to met women are in parks, and bookstores. I'm sure this time of year there are plenty of show and shines. get out too a few. Cars and chicks... nuff said.



Can you post a link to the cheating thread please? I wanna check out that shit test... hehe.

Bookstores does sound like a good place to meet nice girls, but just the thought of approaching women in a bookstore gets me nervous and nauseous. Probably because the rejection rate would be a lot higher than at a bar. Also, I'm not a huge book reader so I (wrongly) assume that I wouldn't have much to talk about. It probably is a great place for a field "study though." Hopefully after reading these tips I'll grow some balls and try out a book store.

Have you ever tried to practice approaching women at a bookstore for a few hours? If so, how did it turn out?

----------


## Oneironaught

> Can you post a link to the cheating thread please? I wanna check out that shit test... hehe.



This is probably the one he's talking about.

----------


## Man of Shred

i was searching jugglers forum and found this pretty decent post.

*How to recover from close ended questions:


*


Just a quick tip that's working well for me.  I'm prone to asking CEQs (close-ended questions) instead of OEQs (open-eneded questions) by accident.  I do it frequently.  I've found a good way to recover. 

After she answers the CEQ, there's usually an obvious OEQ follow-up, but don't ask it.  Instead, just wait.  Vacuum.  Usually, she'll elaborate, and then you've gotten about the same effect as if you'd asked the OEQ to begin with.  The vacuum demonstrates high value on your part, and you get a good conversation going.

Example:

You:  How was the beach today?
Her:  Great.
You:  <vacuum, with a bit of a smile>
Her:  We sunbathed for about four hours.  Check out this tan line.

If she doesn't elaborate, still do not ask the obvious OEQ.  This looks needy, and you're on your way to a question train.  Instead, answer the OEQ yourself using the I-perspective.  Then ask her, "How about you?"

Bad:

You:  How was the beach today?
Her:  Great.
You:  <vacuum>
Her: <vacuum back at'cha>
You:  What did you do at the beach?
Her:  I don't know.  Hung out.

Good:

You:  How was the beach today?
Her:  Great.
You:  <vacuum>
Her: <vacuum back at'cha>
You:  I did this crazy amount of surfing.  I'm worn out, but I've got that slightly euphoric feeling I always get after a good workout.  How about you?
Her:  We sunbathed for about four hours.  Check out this tan line.

----------


## tyrantt23

> i was searching jugglers forum and found this pretty decent post.
> 
> *How to recover from close ended questions:
> 
> ...
> 
> *



That's a very interesting article! I seem to have a problem asking CEQs by accident too... my head is always thinking of how to phrase a certain question into an OEQ. lol. I've tried all those situations before, but just by random chance. I never stopped to think about it that way, that's very insightful!

I'll definitely be trying that out...  :smiley: 

I do have one question about the article:
"How was the beach today?"
Isn't that an open ended question?

----------


## Man of Shred

well that is closed endened. because the most common answer would be "Fine" or "Great" etc. but if you ask something like "Tell me, What did you like about going to the beach today?" is very different.

----------


## Man of Shred

I'm going to calgary and clubbing this weekend. i will post field reports!

----------


## tyrantt23

Hi... just thought I'd give an update, and sort of set up an explicit goal for myself tonight. I had some plans for tonight that went down the drain, so I'm sitting here at home, all prepped up, and doing nothing...

This is the perfect time for me to go out, by myself, and sarge some girls. The truth however, is that I'm nervous as hell just from thinking about it. When I thought about going out before, I'd never be this nervous, because it wasn't for certain. The difference now, is that I'm going there... whether I want it or not... and I'm going to approach girls, whether I want it or not. I'm trying to keep a mindset of "I don't give a damn about what happens..." but it's still a bit terrifying that I'm going there by myself and its just gonna be me...  ::shock:: .

Hopefully I won't shit my pants before I get to the bar.  ::rolleyes:: 

Just for the record, I'm going to a bar/pool place in Berkley, California. My goal is to approach at the very least, 3 girls. If I get rejected quickly, then that means I'll have more time to approach more girls.

Here's to hoping I'll come back a better man!  ::D: 

cheers!

----------


## Half/Dreaming

If I could give any advice, it would be to disconnect from the situation. Presumptions and planning always lead to self confidence issues, hence the "shitting the pants" thing.

Kick some brews, and wait.

----------


## Man of Shred

You're jsut going out to be social i personally don't like the term "sarge". it is gonna be tough at first. but forcing yourcelf to approach will work wonders. don't just talk to the girls. talk to the guys too. it's gonna suck at first. remember the guys from the seduction school video. how nervous and afraid they were.

 we all go through that. good luck.

edit:  And I've found psyching myself up is bad. My best nights are when i go out expecting not really anything. if nothing happens nothing happens. if something does, than it suprises me and i roll with it. Don't psych yourself too much.

----------


## tyrantt23

> If I could give any advice, it would be to disconnect from the situation.
> 
> Kick some brews, and wait.



I agree with the first part, but somewhat disagree with the second part. The reason, is that if I "kick some brews, and wait" then I will just end up kicking some brews all night, and waiting all night. I do want to get more social, and the only way of doing that is to well, get more social, but next time I will have to disconnect myself a bit like you say.





> You're just going out to be social i personally don't like the term "sarge". it is gonna be tough at first. but forcing yourself to approach will work wonders. don't just talk to the girls. talk to the guys too. it's gonna suck at first. remember the guys from the seduction school video. how nervous and afraid they were.
> 
>  we all go through that. good luck.
> 
> edit:  And I've found psyching myself up is bad. My best nights are when i go out expecting not really anything. if nothing happens nothing happens. if something does, than it suprises me and i roll with it. Don't psych yourself too much.



Very nice post Ranma! I can see where you're coming from with the term "sarge." The reason I used it then is because I had just read about that term that same day, and I had that one goal in mind that night. Sadly, I ended up psyching myself too much, like you say, and was getting too focused and worried on the whole "sarging" that I forgot to just stay cool, and be social.

Having said that, here's an outline of how that night went by to anyone interested:

I left home, psyched out, expecting to just approach women. On the way, I drank a red bull to get energized, and smoked a couple of cigs to calm down... haha.

As I walked in the pool place/bar, I kept a good image of myself, looked happy, without a care, checked out any possible girls to approach later on in the night. Walked to the bar, and ordered a Guinness. By then, I had already seen a group of 7 girls with one guy sitting at a table, two girls sitting by themselves at another table, and a couple of girls by themselves near the bar area.

After I got my beer, I got a bit nervous about the whole situation and went to the bathroom, from the bathroom to the smoking area. There I asked a lighter to a girl that was sitting by herself, but I didn't say anything to her for thinking that she was with some other guys at a table near us... a couple minutes later she finished her cigarette and walked out, then I just felt dumb for not being social. I went back inside and went to the bathroom, then went back to the bar area.

At this point, I was already a little lost and too self-conscious, feeling as if everyone was noticing me just wandering around. I stood in one spot, and started drinking my beer quickly while watching the tv. I was reluctant to approach the two girls that were sitting at the table because it was a few feet behind me, and I was too self-conscious of how I looked lost just standing there, drinking a beer by myself.

After I got done drinking the beer, I went to the bathroom once again, then headed back to the bar to get another beer. I noticed a very good looking girl standing next to me on the crowd of people wanting to get goodies from the bar. I took me one minute to let go of the worries and finally say something, and made sure to put up a nice, calm and confident body language and I think I did a pretty good job:

"Say, I was in the mood for trying out a new drink right now... what would you recommend?"

from there we started talking about different drinks, places she's been, where I'm from, the fact that I was there by myself since my friends flaked out on me, etc. I did kino a few times, and it was a nice addition to the conversation. She then invited me to hang out with her friends that were playing pool. Turned out she had a boyfriend, her other girlfriend had a boyfriend also, and there was a guy friend whom they claimed to be a good wing-man. I hung out with them a bit, we were all having a good time, played a game of pool, drank another beer, then the bar started closing. We went outside, smoked a cigarette, and the girl said to her boyfriend that he should get my number... and so we exchanged numbers. That was my night... and I even got a guy's number! haha.  ::rolleyes:: 

Seriously though, it turned out fun, and goes to tell that next time I really shouldn't psyche myself out that much. I should just try to be a bit more outgoing, without getting to the point where I'm too worried about it.

----------


## tyrantt23

Sorry for the double post, but this is unrelated to my field adventure. I thought it would make it less cluttered to make a separate post about it.





> You're jsut going out to be social i personally don't like the term "sarge". it is gonna be tough at first. but forcing yourcelf to approach will work wonders. don't just talk to the girls. talk to the guys too. it's gonna suck at first. remember the guys from the seduction school video. how nervous and afraid they were.



In response, I will just post some insight I read on the Juggler's Method. By talking to both men and women, you show a genuine interest in people in general, instead of looking like you're just after women.





> *Projecting genuine interest is important in your interactions with groups of people as well…*
> 
> I was in San Francisco demonstrating the art of picking up women for a client at the Matrix nightclub. It’s a good place with many attractive people and a laid-back feel. Perfect for a Midwest boy such as myself. In the course of the night I see a guy sitting all in a row with four beautiful women. I approach him and introduce myself.
> 
> ‘Frank’ was happy to talk. He invited me to sit down. It turned out these girls were his Brazilian cousins. They had been dragging him along all day shopping. He was in a state of dying-for-some-male-company. As we chatted about duct tape and hammering things, I came to appreciate him as a sincere and cool guy. We were connecting. But that is when the bad thing happened. As my new friend was in mid-sentence, one of his hot cousins leaned over and asked me where I was from.
> 
> This is predictable behavior from a girl who sees a person in her group making a connection with a stranger. She becomes curious. I should have simply smiled, put my index finger up indicating 'just a moment' and let the topic of conversation with Frank run its course before engaging her. That would have demonstrated I was motivated by genuine interest and that it was more important for me to make a real connection with a person than to jump on the first opportunity to talk to a hot girl. They all would have respected me for such a simple gesture as raising a finger.
> 
> But what I did do was leave Frank in mid-sentence and push over to her. That was a stupid thing to do. I was so focused on demonstrating how fast I could sit next to a hot girl that the only thing I demonstrated was that I was insincerity towards Frank so that I could get at his women. I didn't want Frank to feel that way about me. I wanted him to feel I was genuinely interested in him as a person first and foremost. But instead I chose to be shallow and out-for-myself and it showed. I demonstrated low value. And as further karmic punishment, in the process of hurrying over to the hot cousin, I knocked over everyone's drink. I was the Jerry Lewis of PUAs.
> ...



Really some amazing insight.  :smiley:

----------


## Man of Shred

cool how you just infiltrated a social circle like that. I'm pretty good at that too. it feels more social and relaxed than cold approaching. good job. Even if you don't sleep with the girls. stay friends with them. hot girls have other hot and single friends. these are called Gatekeepers.

----------


## Original Poster

> I meant to give an update of that bar night, but never got around to it. I still have some lingering questions though, so I'll give a little rundown of how my night went, and what my questions are:
> 
> So, I started out by driving 45 minutes to Sacramento. I was mainly interested in dancing, but also ready to engage in a few quick conversations. When I was walking towards the club I was going to, I met another group of 2 guys and one girl that were going to the same place. There was a big line and a cover charge, so we smoked a cigarette and talked for a bit. The conversation went alright, no awkward silence, no signs of them thinking I'm weird for being by myself. They decided to go back to the bar they were at before instead of waiting in line, and since I said I was new to the area, they asked if I wanted to come along. The two guys were very drunk, but a friendly drunk, the girl didn't seem so, but she was sexy and I was still trying to figure out if she was single, so what the hell, I went along for the walk.
> 
> Once we got at the bar, I was introduced to 5 more of their friends, and hung out there listening to some live music. Now, at times like that when I'm around complete strangers, I tend to be a little lost in the conversation and feel a bit out of place. They are talking about things that I don't know, and I'm trying to listen to all the separate conversations at the same time to _hopefully_ find a topic that I can relate to and then comment on it. What usually happens though is that I end up looking from conversation to conversation, not really knowing what they're talking about, and trying to look interested by giving smiles/laughing... when a topic does pop up that I may have something to comment, then I'm reluctant to say anything, because I wasn't paying much attention to that particular conversation in the first place, so I don't know if what I think is relevant really is. Does that make any sense?
> 
> Anyway, I went to get another beer, it was just me and the other two guys I met earlier were talking, the conversation was going good. Then they saw another friend, and introduced me to her. She was alright-looking. I'll call her Sara. Now, I'm not trying to be shallow, but by her looks, I didn't have much interest in Sara. I went out for a cig and she came along. We were talking for a little while, again, the conversation was going well, no awkward pauses, I tried to be funny a few times, but since I wasn't really interested in her, I didn't KINO, and didn't SOI... just chatted.
> 
> The guys I had met earlier (and the girl) all left while I was smoking the cig because one of the guys had to go be the DJ for some other club. $20.00 cover charge, so I stayed talking with Sara. Back at the bar, she brought me to her table... 8 other friends that I met. 7 girls, and one guy that I'm 99% sure was gay (I have nothing against gay people by the way). Yeah, I was under a bit of pressure there, and feeling a bit out of place once again, but I just tried to keep some sort of conversation with the girl I'd just met, without closing ourselves from the table. It was a large group of people I didn't know, so the same thing also happened a few times, where I just looked from person to person, trying to capture the conversations and trying to comment on it. At the same time, I was trying to figure out which girl was good looking, which girl was single, which girl looked interested in me... yes, a task that's pretty much impossible, especially considering I never asked any questions regarding that subject. lol.
> ...



I wanted to read the whole thread before I posted ut I read your story and I have to say it is a must read for all women on the planet that want insight into the average guy's head when they don't get called back.  Honestly if a girl wants a relationship and not just sex, this why the "give the phone number and wait till he calls before giving any sex" rule is key.  I've been in that same situation.  I just acted on instinct and out of drunkeness, ot laid and a phone number and thought, "You know on second thought, I really don't want to be with her."  It's hardly our fault, we have a drive that's built to have us not conceive long term consequences of our actions, sexually at least.

----------


## Man of Shred

Ok it's a bout time i posted a decent field report. No lay. but i got a number and had some really good interaction with a chick. I socially vibed well with others all night. it was awesome.

My Wing came down for a visit. i live in a small town so i suggested aanother small college town a few minutes away. it has a few bars. and a small nightclub.

On the drive we do a drill on storytelling. basically we give eachother a random word or subject and then we relate it to a story about ourselves. This is a great excercise to do with your wing BTW. you'll suck at the storytelling at first. but when you start doing the field work you will be amazed at how fast and easily stories game come up during the gaming. A good idea is to tweak your storytelling. learn how to build tension. have low points. and end on a high point.

We get to a lounge to relax and play some pool. A nice waitress comes up.

Her: Hi, how are you?

Me: good, how are you?

Her: good!!!

Me: Darn and i was hoping i would have to cheer someone up.

Her: (laughs) oh yeah I'm so depressed.

Me: well maybe getting me a kokanee would cheer you up.

Me and my wing get drinks and set up a game of pool. I see some guy at the pool table next to us. he's with a group of firneds. I recognise him from high school. I chat him up. meet some of his friends. One of his friends is where a flashy outfit. the waitress goes up to him.

Flash: pez? (holding up a pez dispenser)

her: sure.

Flash: weren't you ever told not to take candy from a stranger.

Her: hehe (not enthusiastically)

  I burst out laughing recognising the mystery pez opener. I roll up to flash and say 
Me: how are you doing Mr. Mystery method.

We wind up chatting a bit. he lives in a town not too far away. From his vibe i definately don't wanna wing with him. but i chat anyway just to be social. I talk to D my highschool friend again. Were talking about our drunken adventures and bs. I was in the middle of a story about a friend of mine who had a gf who always got drunk, riled him up for sex and passed out. too cut too the punchline, in the stry the girl wakles up one morning and says "I can't open my eyes AHHH" I'll let you buggers figure out the middle of the story .

As i finish telling i notice a petite blonde is quite ineterested in my story and vibe. This is great also. If you talk to lots of guys as well as girls. You'll attract more female curiosity.

she says she never passes out. except once at her grad party. She threw up and passed out on the bathroom floor.

Me: that could be sexy.

She bowls over laughing. I ask her name again. I introduced myself earlier but i forgot her name. she says it's ok she has a bad memory except for the most irrelivant details.

Me: like what?

Her: Well when i was 8 i remember decorating my christmas tree by myself. I accentally tipped it over and made a huge mess.

Me: haha really? when i was five. i wanted to know if my mothers perfume was drinkable.

Her: haha

Me: yeah i wound up throwing up all over her bed.

Her: laughs more. (gives some childhood story about climbing and something about t.v. shows she use to watch as a kid)

Me: Hey I use to watch my little pony. Didn't they have stupid powers like sharing honor and s--t? (I hate routines but this seemed appropriate.)

We story tell a  bit more. I forget to SOI or escalate. but i just say "I'm gonna scout around a bit (kino on shoulder,) I'll be back.

I go back to D. He says they're hopping to the next bar. I vibe with his friends with a bit. Me and my wing are invited to join them.

WE leave the bar with the girl (who is in their group). some guy gives her a happy birthday.

Me: It's your birthaday? Happy birthday. how old are you?

Her: I turned 18 an hour ago. It sucks tho, i have to come home sober tonight. i can only have a few drinks.

Me: WEll normally I don't buy drinks. But, since it's your birthday, I'll make an exception in your case. And my birthday is coming up to you know (It's not lying it's flirting)

Her: Oh yeah. I'd totally buy you one.

WE keep walking I chat with the other dudes a bit. they are slightly drunk and loud. D complains about he's too loud sometimes when he's drunk. I told him what Wayne says about loud people don't scare people. quiet people do. He totally agrees.

I vibe with the other guys a bit. they are talking about desperate drug addicts. I told a true story about a guy i knew who sold his family thanksgiving turkey for crack. that got the wohle group laghing.

WE arrive at the bar. Sit down. D introduces me to a bunch of girls. i just make small talk. with some open ended questions. I join the birthday blond. Some cougar had already bought her a drink. It's called a malibu sting. I buy her one. We start talking again. I'm goin with rapport now. I kino a lot. we get to know eachother quite well. she got picked on at school. She loves drama but her parents want her to be a teacher. she said she would be good at teaching. She's both motherly and stern.

Me: well if you wind up being a teacher what would be your face for getting the children to behave... Give me your mean face.

She does a funny mean face. My wing points out there's a slow song going on at the dance floor. I take a hint and say "I hate you dude i can't dance". he insists. I'm terrible at dancing. I don't wanna ask to dance and then dissapoint her. i suddenly got an idea. i use the sexual tension principle.

Me: (with kino) this is a great song to dance too. But I'm a terrible dancer

Her: OOH I love dancing. Let me teach you.

we go up and slow dance. I lift her arm and twirl her.

Me: haha i saw that on a salsa dancing video.

Her: ooh i've always wanted to learn salsa.

Me: me too Lets take lessons together.


After the dance i go to my wing. It's late and everyones leaving. My wing tells me to get her number. I don't have a cell. or a pen. Buyt i have a notepad. My wing gets a pen from the bar. I get D's number, i want to hang with him again. he says it's cool. I # close the birthday blond. and leave.

all in all good night. things I could have done more : SOI, More sexual tension, kiss close.

comments, criticism all welcome.

----------


## TweaK

What's SOI then? And uh, if she turned 18.. At least she's legal.

----------


## Man of Shred

> What's SOI then? And uh, if she turned 18.. At least she's legal.



 
 And SOI is a statement of intent. or Statement of interest. Basically you base your interest in her on her unique qualities rather than her looks. Since most average men base their interest on looks alone, it is way too superficial.
 eg of SOI: not only are you sexy but you're also a great conversationalist.

----------


## TweaK

Oh, I thought Sexual somethingsomething. But thanks for letting me know. Yeha, that seems to work better than "I bet you could work at the Hooters!"

----------


## Man of Shred

> Oh, I thought Sexual somethingsomething. But thanks for letting me know. Yeha, that seems to work better than "I bet you could work at the Hooters!"



 I agree it displays a bit more intelligence than your hooters line.:p

----------


## TweaK

It's not really _my_ Hooters line I must admit, I never did get to use it in practice (and I never plan to). Besides, in the Netherlands we don't have a thing such as the "Hooters" so it'd sound kinda weird anyway.

----------


## tyrantt23

# close 4tw!  ::banana:: 

I'll be posting the details of my latest field report whenever I get some free time. In short, I met a girl before I even went inside the pub, we talked a little bit, went inside, I met her friends. As usually ends up happening, I stick to that group... a few people in her group didn't seem very friendly or approving towards me, but me and Megan were hitting it off *really* nice. We just kept talking, getting to know each other, kino and rapport built up... and at the end, outside, when her and her friends were getting ready to leave, I asked "hey, would you want to hang out sometime?" and immediately as if expecting me to ask that, she replied "sure!"

My phone turned itself off 3 times (even though it was fully charged) when I started punching in her number, so we ended up doing it the old fashioned way and writing down the numbers. Then we said bye, some more kino, back and forth about 3 times with touching the arms, good bye, drive safe.

She's very pretty, seems to have an amazing personality, very good karma, and very nice to other people, artistic. Not to mention she's a great dancer apparently...

I'll post some more details later. In the meantime, I just wanted to say, thank you Ranma for introducing me to this whole idea of social dynamics.

----------


## Man of Shred

good stuff i had a similar high when i did thta # close. still haven't called ehr tho. (i'm too nervous imo)

----------


## tyrantt23

> good stuff i had a similar high when i did thta # close. still haven't called ehr tho. (i'm too nervous imo)



I'm sure you've read these before, but I'll repost them for everyone else, as well as to give you a chance to refresh your memory.  :smiley: 

Anyway, probably the best advice that I read on those e-books, was to give a call to a good friend about 15 minutes before you plan on calling the girl, just to get you on a conversational mode. Don't even mention about the girl to your friend, or else that will be the topic of conversation and it will just get you even more nervous. Just get lose, and get yourself in a good mood and conversational mode.

Anyway, these are very long excerpts, but very useful to anyone about to follow up on a number close. Today I tried calling Megan (the girl I met yesteyday) but got the machine. I didn't leave any messages, but I'll try again tomorrow. I'm not worried about sounding desperate... I know I'm not desperate, I just had a good time with her, and as long as I give out good material on the phone chat and put her on a good mood, she'll still be up to meet up again with me. I'll see how it goes tomorrow...





> 5 Phone Guidelines
> This will help some guys who have difficulties over the telephone.
> People with very different styles form mine may not consider this
> useful. But for most this should help.
> 1. No matter who answers the phone announce who you are, "Hi this is
> Juggler. Is Katie there?"
> This shows you are proud and confident to be you and it establishes
> some rapport with a housemate or parent which can be used later.
> (By the way meeting a girl with her parents is a very good situation. I
> ...









> Tanya's Voicemail: "Hi this is Tanya. I'm out conquering the
> world. Leave a message." Beep.
> You: "Hi Tanya this is Roger Rabbit. I'll try you back after I get
> out of my pottery class around eight."
> Sound upbeat and fun. Give her a time when you will call
> back so she knows to expect your call. Don't ask her to return your
> call. Most women won't and you don't want to be anxiously waiting
> by the phone.
> 7:45 PM.
> ...



The only thing that confused me, is that in the first quote, Juggler says to:
Do not ask her if she is busy.
Do not ask her what she is doing.
Do not remind her where she met you.

but on the second quote, he asks those things. Anyway, I think I would be more comfortable in at least asking what she is doing, so that I can get full attention from her. If she's watching TV, I'll ask her to turn it off like Juggler mentions. If she's with her friends, I'll say I'll call back. If I don't have her full attention however, the phone conversation won't be 100% successful in my opinion.

Once again, I'll see how it goes this Monday. I hope these excerpts helps other people.

----------


## Man of Shred

keep in mind the conversational jiu jitsu was amde way before the other ebook. The example from HTBAPUA is a way more refined approach.

----------


## ThePhobiaViewed

Holy Moly Tyrantt that was a giant post. 

I love this thread I am like a thousand times less shy now than I used to be and with band camp this week I've talked to people who have been in band as long as I have but I have never really talked to. Life is more fun with this whole social game. Something to look forward to during the school year I guess (especially because alot of people in school probably think I'm quiet and just a "smart kid"). I loved those Seduction School youtube vids on the first page. I'm not really looking for a girlfriend because I think its better to just be able to go up and talk to any girl without having to worry about the consequences because girls talk to each other and those rumors get us guys in trouble. This summer I've really changed. It started with Derren Brown vids and this thread! Thanks for the great advice and amazing thread everyone ::banana:: !

Actually on second thought it wasn't too huge but i didn't feel like reading it lol.

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## slayer

Well I've read through some of this thread but I'm too tired to read it all. I was just wondering if you had anything on curing shyness? That seems to be my biggest problem...

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## Man of Shred

Shyness is tough! I still have a hard time with it. a really good drill is when you are walking down the street. Whoever passes you, just say "hi" and keep walking. some people are rude about it. but you will find out that many will say "hi" back. do this daily for a while. and then try something bigger.

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## Man of Shred

I found an excellent article on vibing. or social vibing.

Spirit Fingers - A Complete Guide to Vibing

Vibing is commonly thought of in the community as fluff talk, or just filler in between your routines. Even by people who run completely spontaneous game, theres never been an in-depth breakdown of vibing.

In this post, I will cover:

1.Beginning vibing: Always having spontaneous conversational material, and solving the problem of stalling out.
2.Set-up questions: How to vibe when the girl gives you nothing to vibe off of.
3.Timing: How to be completely spontaneous by vibing only off currently relevant topics.
4.Advanced vibing: Leading the conversation away from negative and boring topics, and towards emotionally powerful topics.

1. Beginning Vibing

A common problem for guys without a lot of social experience is that they "stall out" when they are having conversations with girls. This is caused mostly by a lack of experience with vibing, either by a lack of social experience or by over-reliance on canned material.

The most important thing to learn about vibing is that you cannot have an interesting conversation on a single topic for any period of time. The second most important thing is that outside of some very high-energy club environments, you cannot just switch topics randomly. You need to vibe smoothly from one topic to the next.

Vibing is mostly a process of topic association. With everything she says, a girl will give you a number of potential directions in which to take the conversation. Good vibing is the result of being aware of these directions on an unconscious level, and taking the conversation down the best path.

Let's take an easy example. Suppose a girl said to you "At this party last night, I got really drunk and started grinding with my girlfriend and making out with her."

Possible topics for you to vibe off of are:
1. The party last night
2. Parties in general
3. What you did last night
4. Getting really drunk
5. Girls making out with other girls
6. Her girlfriend
7. Grinding/dancing
8. Dancing at parties/clubs

This is the easy part. Just by recognizing what a wealth of topics she presents you with every time she opens her mouth, you'll solve the problem of "stalling out" and having nothing to say.

Occasionally, you can break the association rule, and make a topic switch with no transition. The key to this is to do it sparingly, especially in low-energy environments. Too much totally unrelated topic switching makes it seem like youre nervous and too occupied in thinking of the next thing to say to listen to the person and enjoy the conversation.

Once you've mastered beginning vibing and you no longer "stall out," you can move on to the advanced version of vibing, which is picking the best topic to attract the girl with. More on that later.

2. Set-up questions

Usually, girls don't present us with sentences as topic-rich as that last one. For example, let's say you called a girl, said hi, and told her a short story. She laughs, or says cool or whatever, and then doesn't follow that up with questions or a story of her own. You now have NOTHING to vibe off of. This is when most guys panic and bust out an irrelevant canned routine, trying to entertain a girl into talkativeness. Wrong move.

A better way is to ask what I call "set-up questions." A set-up question is a question which is useless by itself, but opens up possibilities for vibing. They are basically the questions AFCs ask all the time. The different between a set-up question and an AFC question is the purpose it is asked for. Examples are:

What have you been up to lately?
Where do you live?
Are you in college?
I hear an accent, what nationality are you?

Obviously, useless for attracting a girl by themselves. You want to avoid asking these questions too much, and only ask them as much as you have to in order to create material to vibe off of.

Lets go back to our phone example, where you have nothing to vibe off of. This happens to me all the time, and usually Ill ask the first set-up questions I listed So, what have you been up to lately? if shes unresponsive to my initial story.

Sometimes I get a good answer from this, but often its something like well I got called into workit was so stressfuland then I watched some TV. The possible topics here are work, stress and TV. This is something which stumps a lot of guys, when they arent presented with any emotionally powerful topics. The critical thing to understand with these responses are that YOU CAN SPIN ANY TOPIC, NO MATTER HOW BORING, INTO AN INTERESTING OR EMOTIONALLY POWERFUL ONE.

Lets take the example of work. You can easily spin the topic of work into something interesting by telling an interesting work-related story which happened to you or someone you know in the past few days.

For example, in a situation like this a few days ago, I responded with Yeah, I know what youre saying, work can be stressful sometimes (pace her reality). I remember once I was doing the same thing, working for twelve hours, and I came home really tired. I walk into my kitchen to grab something to eat, and my girlfriend at the time was there, cooking something. At first it kind of freaked me out, I was like how did you get in? It turns out she actually broke in through the back door and just started cooking in my kitchen. But anyways, she knew that I was working all day so she decided to surprise me by cooking me some Salvadorean food for when I got home. And I thought that was awesomeI loved how she would always do little things like that for me. I thought I was tired when I got home, but after that I didnt feel tired anymore. We ate, and then I took her out to a club and we danced all night. I think its crazy how you can think youre tired, but then you see someone who you like and they can make you feel better. So anywaysyou seem like the type of person who would do little things like that for peopleare you?

Of course, dont copy my story, you need to make up your own. If you copy mine, it will come off as ENTERTAINING and canned, and it will hurt your game. And most importantly, dont tell the story to try to demonstrate value, do it to smoothly set-up the screening question.

The important thing to notice in this story is how I spin the boring topic of work smoothly into an interesting story, and then into a screening question. If you can do this, you can vibe even when the girl is having trouble opening herself up to you.

3. Timing

Timing is absolutely CRUCIAL for good vibing. The biggest thing Ive noticed in conversations is that a really funny or emotionally powerful remark at one point in the conversation is no longer funny or powerful ten or even five seconds later.

The biggest social error I made when I was just learning how to vibe was latching onto topics, and saving them for later. Once I heard a good topic, I would ignore the rest of what the person said, and just wait for them to stop talking so that I could go off on my thread.

The most critical thing to understand with timing is that SPONTANEITY AND RELEVANCE ALWAYS TRUMPS THE VERBAL VALUE OF WHAEVER YOU HAVE TO SAY. Always, always, always. A great thing to say now will fall flat on its face ten seconds from now. If you have something great to say, but the person continues talking and gets on a different topic LET IT GO. However great it was, it is better that you say something relevant and semi-interesting than something irrelevant and very interesting.

This all goes back to demonstrating value. And by demonstrating, I mean actually demonstrating in a way that cant be faked, not telling DHV stories which are actually a subtle way of qualifying yourself.

If you say something awesome but irrelevant, it comes off as attempting to compensate for your lack of value by trying really hard to come up with interesting conversational material. Also, it shows that you arent listening to her, and that youre too nervous and wrapped up in what to say next to actually pay attention to whats being said.

Contrast this to the guy whos spontaneous at all times, even when it means sacrificing the opportunity to tell a few of his favorite stories. Even though he may not be verbalizing value by telling DHV stories, he is *demonstrating* value by being spontaneous. This shows that he is relaxed, enjoying the conversation, and not trying to entertain the girl.

If a really interesting topic comes up and you really want to talk about it, the only way to bring it up in a relevant way is to cut the other person off and start your thread. Be careful with this thoughyou only want to cut someone else off if you could significantly improve the direction of the conversation by doing so. I've met guys who cut people off all the time for no reason, and it comes across as try-hard and needy for attention.

Some examples of timing:

BAD TIMING:

Girl: So the other day, my friends and I went to this really awesome party. Then when we were coming home, these gross old guys starting hitting on us, and I was like, ewww. But my friend is so drunk she actually starts going for them, and I have to drag her away. So anyways, we get back to my apartment and put my drunk friend to bed, and me and my other friends start talking about the guys weve gone out with lately. We were saying how weird it is, when you meet a guy and hes drunk, and in the daytime hes a totally different person. Its like, theres so many guys out there that are cool at a party, but in real life theyre just not boyfriend material.

Guy: Yeah, so the other day I was at this awesome party too (guy totally missed the importance of the story)

GOOD TIMING:

Girl: (Same story) cool at a party, but in real life theyre just not boyfriend material.

Guy: Yeah, I hear what youre saying. I think girls can be the same way sometimes. And I mean thats cool, I love to party too, but I think its important that people be able to both party, and be someone who you can have a good time with in the daytime when youre both sober. Like, you seem like a party girl, you definitely know how to go out and have fun. What do you usually do for fun in the daytime? (Responded with something well-timed and relevant, AND spun her attempts to screen him into a frame where he is screening her)

POSSIBLY GOOD TIMING:

Girl: So the other day, my friends and I went to this really awesome party. Then when we were coming home, these gross old guys starting hitting on us

Guy: (cutting her off) Haha, yeah I love that. I used to go to a club with all these girls, and they would always tell me all these horror stories about these fat drunk old guys who would try to hit on them. Like, theyd be dancing and this smelly old French guy would start grinding with them. Thats what I like about being a guy, when I see a smelly old lady dancing, I dont have to go dance with her. (Good because it is relevant, but be careful not to overuse this. In this case it would be better to let the girl finish the story, because shes trying to open herself up to you and give you better material to vibe off of)

4. Advanced Vibing (or, Directional Vibing)

When you are first beginning, vibing is about recognizing the possible topics and picking one in order to keep the conversation going. As you become more spontaneous and no longer have problems with stalling out, you want to use your vibing to lead the conversation down the best direction for attracting the girl.

The direction that you want to lead the conversation down if you are using a natural style is to lead the conversation towards a frame where you are screening her for the qualities which you desire in a relationship. If you are using an indirect style, you can also use directional vibing to lead the conversation into your routines. Of course, a routine will never have the spontaneity of real, spontaneous conversation, but by vibing well between your routines you can at least make them seem less canned.

If you are using Natural Game like I do, the direction which you want to lead the conversation will be specific to your own experiences and the traits which you desire in a woman. There is no one direction which is best for all people, but you always want to be leading the conversation towards screening for the unique qualities which you find attractive.

Lets take the example from the section of beginning vibing. "At this party last night, I got really drunk and started grinding with my girlfriend and making out with her."

Again, the possible topics for you to vibe off of are:
1. The party last night
2. Parties in general
3. What you did last night
4. Getting really drunk
5. Girls making out with other girls
6. Her girlfriend
7. Grinding/dancing
8. Dancing at parties/clubs

Personally, I love girls who can have fun, but I dont like girls who are boring unless they are drunk. So, Id pick to topics of getting really drunk and dancing, and say:

I think thats awesome that you can just cut loose and be crazy like that (qualifying her). I love girls who arent afraid to go out there and have fun. The thing is, with a lot of people in Boston, theyre really shy. Like, if theyre at a party, they wont talk to anyone outside their group or dance unless theyre really wasted. And I think thats too bad, because drinking is cool, but I think you should be able to have fun when you dont drink too. So what about you, are you crazy like that when you dont drink? (screening)

Of course, everyone likes different things. If you were into MFF threesomes, you could lead the conversation in a direction where you talk about her experiences with other girls, and ask if she is bisexual.

The most common application of this is that girls will repeatedly get on logical or negative topics during conversation. It is your job to recognize that these topics are hurting the conversation, and spin them into something positive and interesting which builds attraction.

Conclusion:

Vibing is your most important verbal conversational skill. To develop the ability to vibe well, repeatedly put yourself in social situations, and become conscious of the array of topics presented to you. This will prevent stalling. Use set-up questions to create material to vibe off of. Time your remarks well, letting go of anything which you have to say which isnt completely spontaneous. And finally, use directional vibing to lead the conversation down a interesting and sexually charged path.

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## tyrantt23

I'm taking going to the city of San Francisco for a night out the first time ever tonight. My sister's friend is going with me. She's wanting to meet a rich guy there... me and her are just friends, and I actually don't want anything happening between us, but I'm hoping her company will make me look friendlier towards other girls. Anyway, this is the biggest club I've been to since I moved to California... I'll see how it goes. I just plan on having fun, and I'm sure I'll get that taken care of.  ::banana:: 

Here's a link to the place, Ruby Skye

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## Man of Shred

Got a kiss close last night. And her boyfriend was at the bar!

 I'll write more details later.

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## tyrantt23

> Got a kiss close last night. And her boyfriend was at the bar!
> 
>  I'll write more details later.



 :Eek: 

Wow, risky business! Well done though, if you did that, it's obviously because you brought out the best of her much more than her boyfriend had ever done.

I still plan on writing my field report for this weekend. I went out Thursday, yesterday, and am going out tonight again. I'm still working on my approach and initial vibe, but it's been getting better.

Tonight I might be going to Dave and Buster's and I heard it gets really crowded there, so it should be fun! Nice to hear about your adventure Ranma... I hope to read the details soon!

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## Oneironaught

> Wow, risky business! Well done though, if you did that, it's obviously because you brought out the best of her much more than her boyfriend had ever done.



That's what I thought. But, then again, maybe she's just another slut. You know, the kind of girl you don't want to be involved with at all. If she's cheating on her man with him in the same building just think of what she's done to every other person she's _pretended_ to be a girlfriend to. And imagine what she'll continue to do to every one else she ever gets involved with.

But don't assume he brought out things that her "boyfriend" never did. Some people are just selfish sluts.

It just goes to show: you can't trust anybody. Damn I hate saying that.  :Sad:

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## Man of Shred

> That's what I thought. But, then again, maybe she's just another slut. You know, the kind of girl you don't want to be involved with at all. If she's cheating on her man with him in the same building just think of what she's done to every other person she's _pretended_ to be a girlfriend to. And imagine what she'll continue to do to every one else she ever gets involved with.
> 
> But don't assume he brought out things that her "boyfriend" never did. Some people are just selfish sluts.
> 
> It just goes to show: you can't trust anybody. Damn I hate saying that.



 Well having just got out of a cheating situation. I don't wanna relationship. I just want fun for a while. I never get into a relationship unless i've already been seeing her for a while (including sex). I've kind of learned my lesson of jumping blindly into relationships. 

 Nothing wrong with sluts :-).

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## Oneironaught

> Nothing wrong with sluts :-).



Tell that to the guys they've screwed over. Oh wait, think about the girl who cheated on you and _then_ tell me there's nothing wrong with sluts  ::?:  

And I mean sluts of both genders. There's as many men sluts as there are women sluts.

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## Man of Shred

It sucked getting cheated on dude. But it also forced me re evaluate my personal stuff. GH the universe in general is utterly impersonal, including sex. Once you understand and accept that simple fact it is impossible to take someone elses actions personal. My ex cheating on me was nothing personal. It wasn't an attack at me. I think women are more about doing what feels right, than what their thought of what right may be.

 Once I understood that. That's fine with me. I just won't talk to her again. Of course it's shitty but that's the nature of the game.

 As for her bf. It's his fault for leaving her all by herself. She was at the bar and wanted someone to hang with and have fun with. her bf was too busy talking to his friends to include her in on the fun, I'm not saying he should be overly protective, but if you bring a girl out, make sure she's having fun.. The only time he came by to talk to her was too check me out. and he did it in a way as to display she was his personal property. I was around at the right time and that's how it happened. that's all.

 By sluts i mean: women who like lots of sex. There are women who rarely get into relationships and just fuck a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. You also have to understand lots of women are in relationships they hate. They aren't happy. If they are in a relationship like that they will sleep around and the boyfriend or husband will never suspect a thing. Me personally if a girl tells me she's in a shitty relationship i make sure they do something about it instead of hurt the guy.

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## Oneironaught

> It sucked getting cheated on dude.



Then why would you want to be part of some one else being done wrong?





> Once you understand and accept that simple fact it is impossible to take someone elses actions personal. My ex cheating on me was nothing personal. It wasn't an attack at me.



Personal or not doesn't make it any less wrong.





> I think women are more about doing what feels right, than what their thought of what right may be.



It's not just women. It's people. People fuckin' suck, plain and simple.





> As for her bf. It's his fault for leaving her all by herself.



Now that's where we really part ways. How the hell can you blame him for her actions. She's the one fucking around. That's not her fault? How the hell is that his fault that she's a piece of lying, cheating shit.





> She was at the bar and wanted someone to hang with and have fun with. her bf was too busy talking to his friends to include her in on the fun,



That's how fucking shallow people are? What bullshit. Seriously, man. That's bullshit. Since when does "having fun" mean you have the right to cheat? Fucking bullshit to the highest power.





> I'm not saying he should be overly protective,



Well, obviously she deserves to be treated like shit. She obviously can't be trusted 30 fucking feet away from the one she pretends to be a girlfriend to.





> but if you bring a girl out, make sure she's having fun..



So 15 minutes alone means you have the right to fuck around? I'm sorry, man, but that's a crock of bullshit and you're not pulling that shit over on me. People are to be accountable for their own actions. Blaming the guy because she's a piece of shit is completely inexcusable and I'm not falling for it for one moment.





> I was around at the right time and that's how it happened. that's all.



Congratulations. I hope you're proud of yourself.

I've listened to you say a lot of on-the-fence stuff but this is over the line. You're excusing the same kind of asshole that did you wrong. The difference being that you're playing the role of "the other guy". I guess dicking some one else over is ok as long as you - and the slut - are happy.





> By sluts i mean: women who like lots of sex.



More bullshit. Women who like lots of sex are not sluts. Women (and men) who can't keep their pants on with any fucking body is a slut. Women (and men) who can't honor their word with respect to intimacy are sluts. Women (and men) who feel they have to right to be unfaithful are fuckin' sluts.





> There are women who rarely get into relationships and just fuck a lot.



Correct, THAT'S a slut. But you aren't talking about some one who's not in a relationship. You said yourself that she was there with her boyfriend. Yet, you thought it was ok to do what you did. Shame.





> If they are in a relationship like that they will sleep around and the boyfriend or husband will never suspect a thing.



Listen to yourself. I'm disappointed. 

You know that you and I are friends and that I respect you. But, damn man, what the fuck are you thinking? Seriously, I'm ashamed.

Yeah, I'm pissed. I'm tired of people like that fucking me over when I give my all: my heart, my emotions, my absolute unwavering commitment only to be fucked over every damn time by people who are selfish fucking bastards. Yes, I'm just a little bit upset by this whole "as long as I get mine" attitude.

*And people wonder why I've been single so damned long. The world is full of lying, cheating, selfish fucking bastards* 

*EDIT:* Alright, I apologise for using such strong words and cussing so much in this post. It's just that I've been burned too many times and it makes my blood boil when people partake in and/or excuse actions like that. It just isn't fair to the one being cheated on.

If you're not happy with the one you're with then leave. THEN move on to screwing around with the next poor sap.

Again, I'm sorry - not for what I said but, for how I said it.

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## slayer

Ok new problem...

Well you see...one of my friends recently lost her mom, I've been asking her how she felt and how her day was anytime I could (mostly over MSN). She seems fine now. I would like to talk to her more...but I just have this issue to talk to girls in reallife instead of MSN or something...

I can pretty much say anything I want on a chat site or something not worry. But when it comes to talking to people in reallife I just can't get the words out...

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## Man of Shred

I'm not sure what to do in that situation. I agree chat is lame. Thats why i try to always make plans to do something with someone before hand. I personally hate talking on the phone and over MSN. it's not the same experience as real life.

 Slayer just read up on the ebooks i posted. if the links expired i'll put new ones up. In those books are some fairly easy ways to keep real conversations going. Make sure you also have an answer for these questions.

 Things like open ended question. eg 

 "What's your story."

 "Tell me a joke"

 "What was x person/place/thing like."

If they ask you something like if their trying to tool you. always say "yes with a funny remark.

 eg

 Her: do you say that to all the girls?

 You: Yes, but with you I really mean it.


 or

 Her: Are you trying to get under my pants?

 You: Yeah i do admit I'd love nothing more than to kiss you all over. But slow down! we should get to know eachother better first.

 If you ask a question and she doesn't answer right away. DO NOT try to fill the gap with another question. Wait until she answers. It's called the Vaccuum.

 Don't Brag about yourself too much. But be human about your statements. Or else she'll try to slate you nito that "Ideal lover category" and if you fail that Ideal... you're done. this is called a disqualification.

 Egs.

 You: how are you?

 Her: great  :smiley: 

 You: Darn i was hoping you were depressed so i could cheer you up.

 Her (laughing): Ok how might you do that.

 you: I'm not sure but i'm pretty sure theres some tickling involved.

 Or You walk into a supermarket and a sales lady is walking around with the name tag "Bobbie". you ask.

 You: So is it bob for short?

 Her: Umm no LOL. I hate it when people call me that.

 You: yeah i can undrestand that. My nbame is Robert and I get called Bob for short too.

 her: that's cool.

 you: Not really it's a pretty common name.

 Her: (laughing) well some people call me boobie!

 You: I'll try to keep that in mind.

 And GH. Whoever burned you in the past. Fuck them. Get over it seriously.

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## Rainman

I admit, I have only skimmed through the thread, so I'll add my two cents and shut up.

Gh, you are very intelligent, and you have a good understanding about a lot of things, but you seem to have a very negative view of people. Not that I can blame you, in many cases, people do suck. But there are a lot of good people, men and women that we forget exist when a series of bad things happen to us. I have had my fair share of shitty relationships and dealing with the horrible sides of people, but if you expect to find negativity, you will find it. It's all perspective.

Slayer, I understand exactly what you mean. I was stuck behind the "internet barrier" for years. Many people are. You have a sense of comfort behind the wall that is the internet, because even if you know the person personally that you are talking to, you do not have to see them and talk to them in real time, or with voice. It's a difficult thing to move up in the ranks. So do it gradually. The next step is to call her. Trust me, it's really not as bad as it seems (and I know that it seems bad at first.)

If you are shy about asking for her number (assuming you don't already have it) then there are a number of ways you can ask for it (many of which depend on how well you know her, and how close you are to her). For example, you might sign off and on 2 or 3 times during the course of your conversation, and say your router is broken, and ask if it's okay if you just talk to her on the phone because it will be a lot "easier". She will almost certainly agree.

From there, you might spend more time with her on the phone as opposed to online. It's still not as good as in person but if you ask me, it's a vast improvement from the internet. Over time you'll get more comfortable hearing and responding to her voice. At which point you can find a way to ask her to hang out more often. 

These are just some thoughts, take them or leave them as you will, and I hope they help you.



As for the rest of you who are shy about talking to women, it's normal. Some women really like a shy guy, they find it cute. Others think it's wimpy and want someone confident. As typical as it sounds, just be yourself. If you try to change how you normally act to impress a woman, they will start to like the "fake" you, and they won't even know the real you. I would say though that even if you're shy, have confidence in your ABILITY. There's a difference between that and having a confident personality.

It's all about building rapport. You have to relate to them on some level, but just be normal. The thing is, if you go about trying to talk to a woman with all of this in mind, and take it literally, it could come off like you're trying to sleep with them, or hook up with them using "tactics". Just be yourself, and if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, you learn from the experience.

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## Oneironaught

> Gh, you are very intelligent, and you have a good understanding about a lot of things, but you seem to have a very negative view of people. Not that I can blame you, in many cases, people do suck. But there are a lot of good people, men and women that we forget exist when a series of bad things happen to us. I have had my fair share of shitty relationships and dealing with the horrible sides of people, but if you expect to find negativity, you will find it. It's all perspective.



I have a negative view of those who don't take commitment seriously. Then, when they brag about their misdoings, yes, it irritates me. I don't generally look for the worst look in people. But I don't tend to let people get away with doing such wrongs against others, especially when the act like it's ok to do so - when it so clearly is not ok.

But don't think it only works one way. I expect to be called on my bullshit too. How else will I be kept in line? Accountability is where it's at.

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## tyrantt23

> I have a negative view of those who don't take commitment seriously. Then, when they brag about their misdoings, yes, it irritates me. I don't generally look for the worst look in people. But I don't tend to let people get away with doing such wrongs against others, especially when the act like it's ok to do so - when it so clearly is not ok.
> 
> But don't think it only works one way. I expect to be called on my bullshit too. How else will I be kept in line? Accountability is where it's at.





You mention Ranma bragging about it, but I disagree. I don't think he was bragging about cheating...  I think he was just happy that he got a kiss close.

Now, keep in mind, it really isn't Ranma's fault that she cheated on her boyfriend. I say this because she either was currently not happy with the relationship and has plans of breaking up, but haven't yet done so. Alternate reason, is because she cheats on her boyfriend on a regular basis. In either case, it's not Ranma's fault.

Yes, Ranma was involved in it, but given the reasons above, she would have done the same thing with any other interesting guy that crossed her path. She is the one cheating on her boyfriend. Not Ranma.

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## Man of Shred

Good stuff guys! keep in mind this thread is not about "sneaky tactics". It has some lingo but there's nothing sneaky about it. An SOI is about you and your desire and also your appreciation for another person.

 A disqualification is also about the real you. 

 these are just key points of conversations that people use on a daily basis regardless if they are aware of it or not. This is all about being yourself.

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