# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > Dream Control and Stabilization >  >  Dream Control and Stabilization Chat Thread

## Sensei

This is a new thread to bring to attention the "chat" portion of the dream control class. I am having an "open chat" for anyone who has dream control and stabilization questions in the dreamviews chat! We have had one and the next is TBD!

Bring a guest! Invite people, the more the merrier. I have never seen a chat too crowded for me to get my point across (basically, I talk too much)

1st control chat! from 10/23/2015

*Spoiler* for _Chat Here_: 




[12:48] == Sensei [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[12:49] == mode/#DVA [+h Sensei] by spellbee2
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[12:52] == mode/#DVA [+o spellbee2^] by anderj101
[12:52] == mode/#DVA [+o noodles] by spellbee2^
[12:53] == mode/#DVA [-m] by spellbee2^
[12:53] == spellbee2 [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Mlem]
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[13:00] * Sensei hands RelaxAndDream pizza slice
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[13:01] <RelaxAndDream> thank you ;D
[13:01] * Sensei hands YoursTruely an emaculate pizza slice
[13:02] <@spellbee2^> oh, never mind, you made it
[13:02] <@spellbee2^> haha, i was looking for the command to invite, but you were already here  :tongue2: 
[13:02] <@spellbee2^> i'm very tired..
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[13:02] * Sensei pats spellbee2^ on the back and hands him a weird pizza slice
[13:02] <@spellbee2^> i do like pizza
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[13:03] <orationem^> I got data access on here! yay
[13:03] <@spellbee2^> woo!
[13:03] * Sensei hands fogelbise and orationem^ one piece to fight over
[13:03] <orationem^> I get it!
[13:03] <orationem^> this is so weird to type ok
[13:04] <%Sensei> lol.
[13:04] <fogelbise> Is Alex here?
[13:04] <orationem^> what stupid autocorrect
[13:04] <orationem^> I've never used it before
[13:04] <%Sensei> Alex is always watching.
[13:04] <fogelbise> hehe
[13:04] <@spellbee2^> he is always here. always present over all
[13:05] <RelaxAndDream> hm who is alex?  ::D: 
[13:05] <%Sensei> owner
[13:05] <%Sensei> of DV
[13:05] <fogelbise> you can see how little i use chat, sorry
[13:05] <RelaxAndDream> ah he just a voyeur or do he is active in some how?  ::D: 
[13:05] <@spellbee2^> haha, it's all good
[13:05] <@spellbee2^> he's always logged into chat
[13:06] <%Sensei> rarely posts in here or forum.
[13:07] <%Sensei> Alright, enough about Alex.  :tongue2:  Does anyone have any questions/
[13:07] == Miau [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[13:07] <Miau> oh yis
[13:07] <RelaxAndDream> i´ve started to listen to you podcast "lucid living"
[13:07] == dolphin [[email protected]] has joined #DVA
[13:08] <dolphin> yay
[13:08] <RelaxAndDream> not exactly a question but more a fact^^ is it about it more or less or are there some new themes ?  ::D: 
[13:08] <RelaxAndDream> damn it i should stop the smiles...
[13:08] <%Sensei> coolio, you liking them?
[13:08] <%Sensei> I always have a new take.
[13:08] <Miau> WHY STOP THE SMILES
[13:08] <%Sensei> on everything.
[13:08] <RelaxAndDream> hey miau ^^
[13:08] <Miau> Hi
[13:08] * Sensei gives dolphin a purple pizza slice
[13:08] <fogelbise> What are your latest insights on DC&S?
[13:08] * Sensei gives miau the best pizza slice
[13:08] <dolphin> mmm
[13:09] <%Sensei> DC being dream control?
[13:09] <Miau> I don't deserve no best pizza slice
[13:09] <RelaxAndDream> woot the best one? ... share?  :smiley: 
[13:09] * Miau gives it to Lucifer
[13:09] <Miau> btw Lucifer is my cat so
[13:09] <%Sensei> haha. do you know what Lucifer means?
[13:09] <RelaxAndDream> *g*
[13:09] <Miau> it means something about light
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[13:09] <Miau> and then some angel
[13:09] <Miau> and related to satan
[13:10] == mode/#DVA [+o MissMacaroni] by spellbee2^
[13:10] <dolphin> mine's tasty. Thanks Sensei!
[13:10] <RelaxAndDream> i actualy have some questions to you sensei but they are not dreamcontrol related... but maby later via pm
[13:10] <%Sensei> bringing light. It was the name of "satan" before he fell. He was in charge of bringing the worship to God (best guess by theologians).
[13:10] <%Sensei> sounds good RAD.
[13:10] <RelaxAndDream> and yes i like your audios ^^
[13:10] <Miau> People will never know if Lucifer is the good Lucifer or the bad one
[13:11] <Miau> (it's the bad one)
[13:12] <%Sensei> Newest ideas is really just been a rehashing of old. Concentration on a certain part of a dream can make that more or less pronounced than it was before.
[13:13] <RelaxAndDream> dreamcontrol is a difficult topic.... i just have so little time to practice because you need to get lucid... its like skiing for 1 week in a year  ::D: 
[13:13] <RelaxAndDream> well not that bad but ...^^
[13:13] <%Sensei> In my dream last night I was talking to my ex girlfriend about her kids. I noticed that we were pretty far from the group even though we were in a small transport. Eventually, the distance was about 30 feet though because I kept noticing it and paying attention to it.
[13:14] <%Sensei> I don't think that "attention", "expectation', or "schema" are the 'one way for dream control' but they are ways that we have noticed it working.
[13:14] <fogelbise> like the opposite of zooming in..
[13:15] <dolphin> There was this annoying DC in my LD last night. I told him to go away but he insisited of ranting to me. I couldn't understand anything he was saying other than something about little red riding hood and some curse words
[13:15] <fogelbise> what other ways are you thinking Sensei
[13:15] <%Sensei> yeah, same thing happened in a lucid the other day. Having sex with this girl and she is really small. When I met her she was like 100 lbs. After the third time of having sex, she was about the size of a doll, but still looked like an adult.
[13:16] <fogelbise> **Oh before I forget, let's all try to avoid negative schema, right?
[13:16] <%Sensei> haha, sounds good.
[13:16] <dolphin> good idea
[13:16] <Miau> wait random question
[13:16] <Miau> fogelbise
[13:17] <Miau> were you one of the dudes with the shared dreams
[13:17] <RelaxAndDream> third time in the same dream?  :smiley: 
[13:17] <fogelbise> no, the closest i had with shared dream was with my wife
[13:17] <RelaxAndDream> baking nomad is it
[13:18] <%Sensei>  RelaxAndDream. Yes. My wife had set it up so that I was having sex with the girl and she was having sex with the dude. We were all going at it like crazy. lol.
[13:18] <fogelbise> haha
[13:18] <RelaxAndDream>  :smiley: 
[13:18] <fogelbise> I did that in a lucid but I was throwing her a boytoy while I was busy
[13:19] <%Sensei> You can get pretty good at sex stuff in dreams.  :smiley:  I really try to avoid stuff like this, but when you are  barely lucid and your wife is like "here, have sex with this" it is very confusing.
[13:20] <RelaxAndDream> damn it i have to scroll every new message...
[13:20] <%Sensei> also! luci-fer, luci-d.
[13:20] <%Sensei> luci = light
[13:20] <@spellbee2^> oh yeah, RelaxAndDream, that's a glitch with chrome for some reason
[13:20] <@spellbee2^> if you can join in firefox, that should fix it
[13:20] <fogelbise> ahh...chrome here too
[13:20] <%Sensei> it is a similar meaning of light and awareness.
[13:21] <RelaxAndDream> back in a sec
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[13:21] <Miau> that gave me something to think about Sensei
[13:21] <%Sensei> haha
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[13:21] <Miau> so Lucifer
[13:21] <Miau> light as in
[13:22] <Miau> Pretty sure the light in that is like
[13:22] <Miau> "oh look at me I am so great"
[13:22] <%Sensei> I did a lot of research on the words lucid dreaming and many things like that when I first started, because I was training to be a pastor, and lots of people are convinced that LDing is evil. I did the research and concluded that if a lucid dream is evil, then dreaming is evil.
[13:23] <Miau> I know
[13:23] <Miau> I remember at first
[13:23] <Miau> I was searching about
[13:23] <Miau> "is LDing satanic"
[13:23] <Miau> before doing it
[13:23] <Miau> lol
[13:23] <Miau> AND DREAMING IS A NATURAL PROCESS
[13:23] <Miau> AND WE GOT MADE BY GOD AND GOD WOULDN'T PUT SIN IN US
[13:24] <%Sensei> Also, not a new thought, but an old one I would like to revisit. What is your favorite ways to stabilize? why does it work?
[13:24] == dolphin [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[13:24] <%Sensei> I bored dolphin. :/
[13:24] <Miau> many would agree that it is evil if you use it for evil purposes
[13:24] <@spellbee2^> lol, just bored his internet connection
[13:24] <Miau> such as in kill people and revenge or stuff
[13:24] <Miau> Which I think is bullshit because we can do whatever we want so
[13:25] <@spellbee2^> i usually just stick with the classic hand rubbing for stabilization. it's simple and works like 95% of the time
[13:25] <Miau> I used to do the hand one too
[13:25] <Miau> did the spinning one too
[13:25] <@spellbee2^> though feeling the texture of things is my backup plan
[13:25] <Miau> but always got teleported
[13:25] <Miau> or like feel stuff around me
[13:25] <Miau> touch them
[13:25] <@spellbee2^> yeah, spinning's never worked for me
[13:25] <Miau> you know use my senses
[13:26] <orationem^> I think in the few Lucius I've had so far I grab something in the environment and focus on it
[13:26] <%Sensei> fogelbise? thoughts? I know you have a lot of good long LDs.
[13:26] <orationem^> autocorrect what lucids
[13:26] <Miau> LUCIUS
[13:26] <Miau> OH GOD
[13:26] <%Sensei> Malfoy...
[13:26] <orationem^> lol I don't like autocorrect
[13:27] <fogelbise> yes, besides the tactile type of stabilization...
[13:27] <orationem^> never used it before
[13:27] <%Sensei> Are you on your phone? my comp doesn't autocorrect.
[13:27] <Miau> computers usually don't autocorrect
[13:27] <Miau> unless it's on skype sometimes
[13:27] <Miau> lol
[13:27] <orationem^> I'm borrowing my dads work iPad
[13:27] <fogelbise> Expectation or schema seems huge for me...
[13:27] <%Sensei> So how did your longest lucid start?
[13:28] <%Sensei> Oh yeah! I forgot about that orationem^! is it working good?
[13:28] <fogelbise> I would have to look it up to be sure, but many long ones start with WILD like entries
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[13:28] <orationem^> on my way down to Seattle and using the iPad's data gb stuff since no wifi on buses
[13:29] <@spellbee2^> wb dolphin
[13:29] <@spellbee2^> and hey Dutch
[13:29] <orationem^> yeah seems to be working well
[13:29] <fogelbise> Is that DutchRaptor?
[13:29] <dolphin> Thanks Spellbee. Hi Dutch!
[13:29] * Sensei hands dutch a piece of organic pizza.
[13:29] <orationem^> hard to type on here though
[13:29] <orationem^> hey Dutch and dolphin
[13:29] <Miau> at some point in this life they will put wifi in the ground
[13:29] <Dutch> hi me
[13:30] <orationem^> lol that would be nice
[13:30] <@spellbee2^> my longest lucids usually occur during naps, especially when i manage to pull off a WILD in them
[13:30] <fogelbise> im terrible at nap lucids or nap recall for some reason
[13:30] <%Sensei> WILD entries? that is interesting. WILDs for me are usually quite short.
[13:31] <%Sensei> very rarely do they become solid LDs except for DEILD-type.
[13:31] * orationem^ never takes naps for some reason
[13:31] <Miau> Oreo also doesn't
[13:31] <%Sensei> So I usually have my longest LDs in the middle of the night.
[13:31] <Miau> but that's because he can't
[13:31] <RelaxAndDream> i didnt get any lucids with naps so far ... dont know even not that big of dreamreacall...
[13:31] <@spellbee2^> about half my DILDs during naps usually just end up in a seemingly never-ending DEILD loop
[13:31] <fogelbise> WILD entries sometimes are unstable making them short but patience seems to help
[13:32] <%Sensei> I have gotten better at them, but I think that what usually makes a dream more stable is being comfortable in the dream.
[13:32] <@spellbee2^> the timing of your naps can have quite a bit of influence on your recall and lucidity chances
[13:32] <%Sensei> Lately most of my longest dreams are in Zodra.
[13:32] <@spellbee2^> morning to early afternoon naps are usually best for WILDs
[13:32] <RelaxAndDream> ah okay i did them mostly late afternoon because i was super tired and dont wanted to wait for night
[13:33] <%Sensei> That usually is just a new sleep cycle. It does help the next night in getting dreams sooner though
[13:33] <RelaxAndDream> but i am not that napper after all so maby i am just not used to naps^^
[13:33] <fogelbise> true, morning naps are probably all of my successes I think
[13:33] <fogelbise> I sometimes nap in afternoon and they are a blur usually
[13:34] <RelaxAndDream> interessting
[13:34] <%Sensei> So I generally think that stabilization comes from comfort as well as recall (general dream awareness).
[13:34] <RelaxAndDream> are you tired then for  the naps or do you just think "ah now a lucid for brunch would be nice" ?  :smiley: 
[13:34] <fogelbise> the biggest difference for dream length was expectation based. i am almost exclusively comfortable in my lucids
[13:34] <%Sensei> and personal dream control ability.
[13:35] <orationem^> I need to get my sleep schedule sorted out if I want to get lucids lol
[13:35] <fogelbise> most naps are for feeling tired for me if that was a question to me
[13:35] <@spellbee2^> RelaxAndDream: for me, a little bit of both.
[13:35] <%Sensei> There is also a different thing that seems to stabilize a lot of people, but that is "negative schema" so I will shy away from it for now (I will put it in spoilers when I make a stabilization thread.
[13:35] <RelaxAndDream> because when i  stand up at 7 i dont know if i could make a nap at lets say 12?
[13:35] == YoursTruely [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[13:35] <@spellbee2^> i've taken a nap with the sole purpose of having a lucid and been sorely disappointed
[13:36] <@spellbee2^> and other times i've taken naps just for the rest and end up having a super-long lucid
[13:36] <%Sensei>  spellbee2^, the only reason I ever get to bed at a reasonable time is to lucid dream.  :tongue2: 
[13:36] <RelaxAndDream> ah okay so not to much presure because its probably harder to fall asleep because you are not that tired like in nights?!
[13:37] <@spellbee2^> haha, i would too, but sometimes homework's gotta come first, unfortunately
[13:37] <@spellbee2^> yeah, something like that
[13:37] <%Sensei> It is always good to not have that much pressure. Happy with a lucid, planning on a lucid, perfectly happy if it doesn't happen.
[13:38] <%Sensei> just relax and dream. Trust that you are going to have a lucid because of the work that you have put in already.
[13:38] <%Sensei> but if it doesn't happen, the odds were not in your favor.
[13:38] <RelaxAndDream> when you do the rubbing hands thing you concentrate on it like a lot right? because i did it now and then but did it by the way while going somewhere and i think it didnt helped alot
[13:39] <%Sensei> if I concentrate a lot on stabilization, I usually wake up. It is a personal thing how much you need to focus on something, how much you need to do it and what speed and for how long.
[13:39] <fogelbise> big bonus with stabilization is that some of my favorite lucid dreams are after a dream scene faded and I held on for the next scene, especially when seeding the next scene with a simple idea
[13:39] <RelaxAndDream> i would say for me my longest lucids where when i feeled comfortable and was really grounded in the dream... then i didnt need to do anything for stability.
[13:39] <%Sensei> OH! I did have an epiphany the other day.  :tongue2: 
[13:40] <fogelbise> epiphanies!
[13:40] <%Sensei> Yes, usually when you are not worried about waking up, it takes longer for it to happen.
[13:40] <RelaxAndDream> i suck at getting into the void... i just give up most of the time dont know why...
[13:41] <%Sensei> Alright, there is no "waking up feeling" there are just feelings that remind me of waking up.
[13:41] <RelaxAndDream> void=waking up for me... but i can differentiate it first after i wake up and then its like doh...
[13:41] <%Sensei> And even if there is a feeling like that, it could just be the dream tricking me, because I have had the "waking up feeling" and then it resulted in a FA, which means that I wasn't close to waking up.
[13:41] <fogelbise> RAD: implant the idea of how you will react at any fade
[13:42] <%Sensei> The void is interesting, I never had them until after about 200 LDs I read canislucidis always falling into the void.  :tongue2:  Then I started having them.
[13:42] <RelaxAndDream> xD
[13:43] <fogelbise> I love the void but I don't remember going there intentionally..perhaps accidentally with a closed eye teleport
[13:43] <dolphin> When I get in a void, I can just imagine my desired dream scene and it usually a similar one appears, if I'm not having a nightmare
[13:43] <@spellbee2^> i usually just end up in the void when i try teleporting without a destination in mind
[13:44] <RelaxAndDream> just to be sure: for me the void is when everything gets black but i kind of still dreaming and not waking up right?
[13:44] <dolphin> yep
[13:44] <%Sensei> If I have any feeling of losing control, I usually just calm down and prepare for the void, or a FA, or an actual waking, because then I can DEILD, or RC or create a new dream scene depending on what happens next.
[13:44] <fogelbise> i think I got the void from Canis too...it is a good thing to expect the void instead of waking at any fade
[13:44] <%Sensei> yep.
[13:45] <%Sensei> That is the void. I once met a girl in the void it was confusing. lol.
[13:45] <orationem^> I've never had void before
[13:45] <RelaxAndDream> ah so new mindset to me... when it gets black i am in the void and not waking up until its proves differently
[13:45] <fogelbise> sometimes i can do what feels like a pre-deild
[13:45] <fogelbise> absolutely RAD!  :smiley: 
[13:45] <%Sensei> Sometimes I wonder if my DEILDs are just FAs. lol.
[13:46] <%Sensei> Especially with my #1 teleport to be just closing my eyes.
[13:46] <RelaxAndDream> for some very long lucids i had i have the same feeling sensei. couldnt tell if i rescued myself from voids or deild or both^^
[13:46] <dolphin> This morning I was in a void as I was about to wake up. I spun and a new dream scene appeared
[13:47] <RelaxAndDream> can you when you are in the void activly do nothing and dont think or should i think of a dreamscene or last dream or something? because i think i have the problem to overthink sometimes^^
[13:47] <%Sensei> spinning for me is strange, if I do it when stable, I lose stabilization, if I do it when losing the dream, I gain stabilization, of course, this is why I consider stabilization to be a form of dream control.
[13:47] <@spellbee2^> lol, i wonder the same thing. sometimes i have so many quick DEILDs in a row that i wonder if they're just FAs
[13:47] <%Sensei>  RelaxAndDream, you can do whatever you want.  :tongue2: 
[13:48] <RelaxAndDream> where are the chances higher to get out of it?^^
[13:48] <RelaxAndDream> or does it happen so or so and if i dont think suprise location?
[13:49] <fogelbise> If looking for a new scene from the void (versus meditation or something) ideas or movement works
[13:49] <%Sensei> honestly, I think that it is a personal experience thing. Find out what happens when you do things. I generally just stop for a bit and try to think of my goals while there like it is any other dream scene.
[13:49] <RelaxAndDream> https://soundcloud.com/talderverwirr...erg-im-tal-023 btw awesome set to hear if one likes some music?  :smiley: 
[13:49] <fogelbise> movement gives me random scenes and ideas like dolphin says give you something very similar to what you were thinking
[13:50] <%Sensei> Usually I end up in a dream scene. I don't see it forming... it is just like "hey you have been here not the void... shhhh..."
[13:50] <fogelbise> probably very personal to each person, true
[13:51] <%Sensei> Ok! so when do you find that you have the best dream control?
[13:51] <RelaxAndDream> yea like nothing happend. i know that
[13:51] <RelaxAndDream> when i am deeply grounded and aware
[13:51] <fogelbise> The idea based ones I seem to feel or hear it forming
[13:52] <%Sensei> When I am deeply grounded and aware, I usually have a hard time breaking the reality. I have to slow down and really confirm that everything is a dream, and then I can break it. Of course I am better at it than I used to be.
[13:52] <%Sensei> Like, "can I really control fire? it feels just like waking?!?"
[13:53] <RelaxAndDream> for me its like "stop! take some deeeep breath and think. what are your goals and everything is YOUR dream so chillax and enjoy"  ::D: 
[13:53] <%Sensei> "you think that is air you are breathing?"  :tongue2: 
[13:54] <RelaxAndDream>  :smiley:  dont care works  :wink2: 
[13:54] <@spellbee2^> yeah, my best control usually happens when i stop everything and focus on my intentions.
[13:54] <RelaxAndDream> in waking life take a deep breath makes you calm to so why not do it in a dream
[13:54] <@spellbee2^> i've literally told DCs to shut up in my dream
[13:54] <@spellbee2^> because i was trying to focus
[13:54] <RelaxAndDream> xD
[13:54] <%Sensei> I know! It is hard to say this, but the best way to get good at dream control and stabilization is trial and error.
[13:55] <RelaxAndDream> i hate it sometimes its like a i am lucid but damn first i need to find the jacked i am searching the whole dream then i can stop breath and think about my goals.... but first this damn jacket^^
[13:55] <%Sensei> I unsummoned one once because he was trying to sell me a dream item that wasn't working and it was stealing my lucidity watching it. I tried to fly away and he grabbed my leg I yelled "you don't exist" and flew away.
[13:56] <RelaxAndDream> he really needed the provision^^
[13:56] <fogelbise> jacket?
[13:56] <%Sensei> yeah, I am dreaming. slow down. Always need to slow down and assess.
[13:56] <%Sensei> lol
[13:57] <%Sensei> What is the point of knowing that you are dreaming if you aren't using your waking life knowledge? lol.
[13:57] <RelaxAndDream> in this dream i was searching for my uniform because i was an austrian military guy dunno why...
[13:58] <%Sensei> usually I either get swept away with dream girls or I slow down. It depends if any are present in the first few seconds of awareness. I did have a 100 lucid streak with no sex in it a while ago. :/ I lost it to dream wife.
[13:58] <RelaxAndDream> once i was like need to go to the toilett RC ah lucid but still need to pee ah and i could brush my teeth... wake up --> facepalm
[13:58] <fogelbise> actually, just exploring is fun sometimes, so looking for a jacket can keep you exploring
[13:59] <RelaxAndDream> yea maybe but i was fagualy lucid so this dont help i think?
[13:59] <%Sensei> I like exploring, but only if I have slowed down first and decided to explore. looking for something that is missing is very stressfull.
[13:59] <RelaxAndDream> yes exactly
[14:00] <@spellbee2^> yeah, i once had a dream where i was looking for some lucid drug in a pharamacy. i realized i was dreaming, yet kept searching for the lucid pills because i wanted to become lucid.
[14:00] <RelaxAndDream> hehe
[14:00] <RelaxAndDream> dreams are fun^^
[14:01] <fogelbise> I think self-awareness work helps with that
[14:01] <Miau> I wish I had a lucid dream
[14:01] <@spellbee2^> and yeah, exploring is great to do in lucids, but it's a good way to lose lucidity if you're not careful
[14:01] <RelaxAndDream> miau =MeohMyoh or in fact miau?
[14:01] <@spellbee2^> at least it is for me, anyway
[14:02] <@spellbee2^> miau is miau
[14:02] <RelaxAndDream> ah okay
[14:02] <Miau> Thanks for explaining bee
[14:02] <%Sensei> I had to steal a USB from a Chocobo (This is one of my favorites, so I have told it many times) in order to get lucid. I got lucid, and the leprechaun stole it. Then I stole it back, replugged it in to the chocobo, and it caused a huge pain in my ear like I was plugging it into my ear. the pain made me slow down and realize I was dreaming not just "lucid". I had a great hour long lucid after that.
[14:02] <fogelbise> Miau's statement reminded me...is it really beneficial to tell people it is hard? Could it be easier if people believe it to be?
[14:02] <@spellbee2^> lol, no prob Miau
[14:02] <Miau> it wouldn't be easier if people
[14:02] <Miau> thought that it is hard to LD
[14:02] <Miau> for me I thought LDing was pretty easy
[14:02] <Miau> so I had it easy
[14:03] <Miau> If I worked on it more
[14:03] <Miau> I could have gotten it even sooner
[14:03] <@spellbee2^> if people think it's easy, they'll expect it overnight, and then get frustrated and quit when it doesn't happen that fast.
[14:03] <Miau> not everyone spellbee2^
[14:03] <%Sensei>  fogelbise, It depends on the person. some people will think "This is hard, I am gonna kick its butt" others can use it as an excuse.
[14:03] <fogelbise> good point spellbee
[14:03] <@spellbee2^> well the vast majority anyway
[14:03] <fogelbise> and Sensei
[14:04] <Miau> and I didn't expect it to happen overnight too
[14:04] <Miau> I just thought it was easy but not that easy
[14:04] <%Sensei> That is why I liked my thread "when I first started lucid dreaming, I wish someone would have told me" so that it can be more "realistic"
[14:04] <%Sensei> and why i spam it around the forum.
[14:04] <%Sensei> and here.
[14:04] <%Sensei> http://www.dreamviews.com/dreamviews...e-told-me.html
[14:05] <fogelbise> haha...I might be out of contact here and there over the next 30 minutes BTW...
[14:05] <@spellbee2^> lol
[14:05] <RelaxAndDream> hehe you really do spam it a lot these days Xd
[14:05] <Miau> some people might find it easier and some might not then
[14:05] <RelaxAndDream> but i think it is as you said. getting A lucid is not difficult but beeing a lucid dreamer is...
[14:05] <%Sensei> also, you feel like you are having a heart attack if you read that meohmyoh, miau sentence out loud.
[14:06] <%Sensei> I make threads so that I can link to them and not have to type the whole thing out.  :tongue2: 
[14:06] <Miau> well at some point
[14:06] <Miau> I was trying to have LDs
[14:06] <Miau> had them
[14:06] <Miau> then I stopped
[14:06] <Miau> had them from time to time
[14:06] <Miau> Like holy shit I used to have like 4 per night
[14:06] <Miau> Thanks jesus for FAs
[14:06] <Miau> and now I haven't had a LD for like
[14:06] <Miau> month
[14:06] <Miau> s
[14:07] <%Sensei> I haven't had an LD in like... 7 hours. I miss it.
[14:07] <Miau> shaddap
[14:07] * Miau leaves bye
[14:07] <%Sensei> no!
[14:07] <%Sensei>   :tongue2: 
[14:07] <RelaxAndDream> ah question: do you think you have FA on a regular basis and it "normal" or do you just have them when you try to luci dream?
[14:07] <Miau> you know
[14:07] <Miau> I haven't had them in a while
[14:07] <Miau> but I used to have lots of them
[14:07] <Miau> honestly
[14:08] <RelaxAndDream> at the beginning i hat a ton of them but nowadays nearlly non
[14:08] <dolphin> FAs can come and go sometimes
[14:08] <%Sensei> I think that it can be normal for some people, but they started when I started paying attention to my dreams at any time in my life.
[14:08] <Miau> I prefer more like a fantasy world in my dreams
[14:08] <RelaxAndDream> some weeks a go one
[14:08] <Miau> but then again
[14:08] <Miau> FAs can be fanatsy-like to
[14:08] <Miau> fantasy*
[14:08] <Miau> Like if I wake up in a bed on a boat in the middle of the ocean
[14:08] <Miau> surrounded my whales and the loch ness monster
[14:08] <Miau> by*
[14:08] <%Sensei> Depends on where you wake up. I have had some weird FAs.
[14:08] <Miau> That would be so great
[14:08] <Miau> then just get on a whale
[14:08] <Miau> and swim udnerweater
[14:08] <Miau> underwater
[14:08] <Miau> and go deep in the ocean
[14:08] <Miau> and find out mermaids are real
[14:09] <@spellbee2^> i've had like 5 straight FAs where i wake up in 5 different arrangements of my bedroom
[14:09] <Miau> cool
[14:09] <%Sensei> OH! dream control! Does everyone know what expectation or schema is?
[14:09] <Miau> What is schema
[14:09] <%Sensei> which (if any) do you subscribe to?
[14:10] <RelaxAndDream> hm expectation is important for summoning
[14:10] <%Sensei> I usually wake up in my bedroom, but what is outside of there is always different.
[14:10] <Miau> Sensei
[14:10] <RelaxAndDream> schema makes some dreamcontrol easier
[14:10] <Miau> What is schema
[14:10] <RelaxAndDream> like fire for example or flying?
[14:10] <Miau> yes but what it is
[14:10] <Miau>  ::|: 
[14:10] <dolphin> Next time theres a DC I don't like I should summon an orca to eat them
[14:10] <%Sensei> schema is an idea. Lets have a little experiment and see something about schema. I say a word, and you all type the first word that comes to your head!
[14:10] <RelaxAndDream> shema is when you remember where you see it. like flying= superman
[14:11] <fogelbise> I'm going to log in through a different browser to activate scrolling
[14:11] <Miau> okay Sensei
[14:11] <RelaxAndDream> or telekinesis when you think of star wars
[14:11] <Miau> I'M READY FOR IT
[14:11] <RelaxAndDream>  ::D: 
[14:11] <dolphin> Schema is your description of how you view the world
[14:11] <%Sensei> Park
[14:11] <Miau> legs
[14:11] <RelaxAndDream> Trees
[14:11] <@spellbee2^> dogs
[14:11] <Miau> I don't know T_T
[14:12] <Miau> It's like walking in a park
[14:12] <Miau> get it
[14:12] <%Sensei> lol.
[14:12] <%Sensei> anyone else?
[14:12] <RelaxAndDream> boobs xD
[14:12] <RelaxAndDream> no^^
[14:12] == fogelbise [[email protected]] has left #DVA [""]
[14:12] <Miau> you can see boobs in the park
[14:12] <%Sensei> haha.
[14:12] <RelaxAndDream> sometimes...
[14:12] <dolphin> booby trap
[14:13] <RelaxAndDream> not often enough tho.
[14:13] <%Sensei> funny enough, I was thinking more like "theme park" "jurassic park" "park your car"
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[14:13] <Miau> noice
[14:13] <@spellbee2^> haha, oh you mean like THAT kind of association game
[14:13] <RelaxAndDream> ups
[14:13] <Miau> but the one we did is funnier
[14:13] <%Sensei> so the schema is like a filing cabinet and this particular one is "park" all of the things that are in there are considered part of the schema.
[14:14] <Miau> parking lot
[14:14] <%Sensei> indeed. I lost at comedy hour.  :Sad: 
[14:14] <Miau> is the first one that comes to mind
[14:14] <Miau> was* funnier*
[14:14] <%Sensei> but, you guys did bring up things that are associated with parks, and things that would be part of the schema.
[14:15] <%Sensei> however, expectation is slightly different.
[14:15] <dolphin> That's schematic archetypes. That's how the schema is organized so it's easier to recall
[14:15] <RelaxAndDream> so we were thinkin of recreational parks
[14:15] <Miau> yep
[14:15] <Miau> I'm really hungry
[14:15] <Miau> and this talk makes me wanna LD
[14:15] <%Sensei> The biggest downfall with expectation is that no matter how many times i say "I expect Shaileen woodley to be in my room" you might not actually expect it, since expectations are determined by your experience.
[14:15] <RelaxAndDream> not enough pizza?
[14:16] <Miau> true
[14:16] <%Sensei> miau should have eaten her pizza.
[14:16] <Miau> I suck at that
[14:16] <Miau> I gave it to my cat
[14:16] <Miau> He still doesn't love me
[14:17] <RelaxAndDream> and i think you need to give you some time to grow the expectation. i had some fails with pocket summoning because i put in my hand befor i finished to think what i want to find
[14:17] <Miau> lol once
[14:17] <%Sensei> Most people (like the cusp) believes that one is true and not the other.
[14:17] <Miau> I wanted to summon a katan
[14:17] <Miau> a
[14:17] <RelaxAndDream> because you kill him with the pizza maby?
[14:17] <Miau> and instead of that
[14:17] <%Sensei> I believe that...
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[14:17] <Miau> I got that cooking
[14:17] <%Sensei> it doesn't matter.
[14:17] == orationem^ [[email protected]] has quit [Connection closed]
[14:17] <Miau> instrument thinger
[14:18] * Sensei hands Windoze98 a really old piece of pizza
[14:18] <Miau> the one you use
[14:18] <Miau> for
[14:18] <Miau> the
[14:18] <Miau> dough
[14:18] <fogelbise> to me, expectation is just a simpler way to get the idea across and might work better for some people, where learning about schema might work better for others
[14:18] <RelaxAndDream> waot fpr ot
[14:18] <Miau> http://zemmrate.com/uploads/posts/20...93623585_4.jpg
[14:18] <Miau> the one on the left lol
[14:18] <RelaxAndDream> ehehee
[14:19] <RelaxAndDream> slice of some wings of a flie with this *bam*
[14:19] <Miau> "shit, not again"
[14:19] <Miau> Well you see
[14:19] <%Sensei> I believe that either one could be right and the other would work. If, in your schema box, expectation is connected to dream control, then it will work. If you expect schema to work, obviously expectation is going make it work.
[14:19] <Miau> that thing is a great fighting weapon too
[14:20] <Miau> Like if I hit you with that in the head
[14:20] <fogelbise> good point Sensei
[14:20] <Miau> No way in hell you will not faint if I do it hard enough
[14:20] <RelaxAndDream> but do you think schema and expactation are equal in use? i think there are things you do with expectation and some you do with schemas?
[14:20] <Miau> I'm having a hard time understanding that
[14:20] <Miau> I need to foCUS
[14:20] <Miau> got it
[14:21] * Sensei hands fogelbise a gold star
[14:21] <Miau> Sorry, slow brain.
[14:21] <RelaxAndDream> if you hit hard enough you even might cut me in two^^
[14:21] * Sensei pats miau on the head. hands gold star
[14:21] <fogelbise> awe shucks
[14:21] <Miau> tru RelaxAndDream
[14:22] <%Sensei>  RelaxAndDream, Tell me something you can do with schema and I will tell you how to do it with expectation, or vice versa.
[14:22] <RelaxAndDream> damn it when i think about it i dont find an example anymore xD
[14:23] <RelaxAndDream> lets say throw a fireball?
[14:23] <%Sensei> ALRIGHT!!!
[14:23] <RelaxAndDream> sure you can just expact one to fall out
[14:23] <@spellbee2^> ha! i'm an expert at the little rinky-dink mario fireballs that bounce and roll.
[14:24] <RelaxAndDream> but it would be probably easier when you have a schema for that like for example dragon ball or something?
[14:24] <@spellbee2^> watch out bowser, i'mma coming for ya
[14:24] <%Sensei> hahaha. Just had an idea of a fireball just falling to the ground.
[14:24] <%Sensei> woah!!!! WOAH!!! dragon ball does not use fire.
[14:24] <%Sensei> they use
[14:24] <%Sensei> ki
[14:24] <RelaxAndDream> when i throw fast fireballs at some point normal balls fly around...
[14:24] <%Sensei> ew
[14:24] <Miau> lol
[14:24] <RelaxAndDream> its not that cool if you throw on your archenemy normal balls or even meatballs xD
[14:25] <%Sensei> Lets say that I am working my normal "I am dreaming" routine and trying to think of a dream goal
[14:25] <%Sensei> and a witch flies at me and hits me in the head and flies away.
[14:26] <%Sensei> I want to throw a fireball at her, so I generally would just throw one, quickly and without thinking.
[14:26] <dolphin> stupid witch
[14:26] <%Sensei> witches be crazy.
[14:26] <%Sensei> while preparing another attack.
[14:26] <RelaxAndDream> go and search for the rest of the dream a broom to fly after her?  ::D: 
[14:27] <Windoze98> i'd "delete" the broom from under her while in mid-flight
[14:27] <%Sensei> haha, but we are talking about fireballs. lol.
[14:27] <%Sensei> I could stop and grab a natsu schema and send a HUGE FIREBALL like his, but it is probably going to take a few more seconds to pull that out of my head.
[14:28] <%Sensei> For me, it is the amount of brain power it is going to take and attention.
[14:28] <dolphin> If I wanted to throw a fireball I would pretend to throw one and hope for the best
[14:28] <RelaxAndDream> so glad you can do right click and do "google search for "natsu" " xD
[14:28] <fogelbise> deleteGUI based more schema styleWho is Windoze98? different member name on DV?
[14:29] <%Sensei> I could send fire, lightning, air, water, and a mouse at her in a second, but if I wanted to go schema, it would take a bit longer.
[14:29] <%Sensei> natsu is da boss. It is because I was him in a dream a little while ago I was able to eat fire.
[14:29] <%Sensei> breathe fire. not eat. I forgot to eat it
[14:29] <Windoze98> i still wonder what fire would taste like.
[14:30] <fogelbise> i agree Senseii guess schema would be a good back up if just doing it is not working
[14:30] <%Sensei> It could of course be my "expectation schema" that makes it that fast though.  :tongue2: 
[14:30] <%Sensei> When people first start LDing, they usually fly.
[14:30] <RelaxAndDream> i normaly dont fight... have more time to accomplish my goals
[14:31] <%Sensei> This is either because they connect dreams with flying and they expect to be able to fly, or their schema connects dreams with flying and they fly. Either way, I couldn't fly at first.
[14:31] <%Sensei> One of my constant goals is fight.  :tongue2: 
[14:31] <%Sensei> And I don't have much choice in Zodra, witches are everywhere.  :tongue2: 
[14:32] <%Sensei> constant goals "explore! Adventure! Find New Items! Fight! Have fun!"
[14:32] <RelaxAndDream> oh i meant that i normaly are not in action so i have time to think about schemas and dont need to "react"
[14:32] <RelaxAndDream> bad bad english sry...
[14:32] <%Sensei> which might mean that you are thinking "I got plenty of time" and lengthening your dreams that way... or wasting dream time... haha
[14:32] <RelaxAndDream> hm maybe^^
[14:32] <Windoze98> i'm still stuck on my "stay freaking stabilized" goal
[14:33] <%Sensei> maybe to which one?
[14:33] <RelaxAndDream> most of the time my lucids are not that long like i would like to so maby last
[14:33] <%Sensei> We talked a lot about stabilizing before Windoze98
[14:34] <RelaxAndDream> but no i dont want to rush
[14:34] <%Sensei> Or maybe they would have been shorter. Lucids at first are at the end of sleep cycles.
[14:34] <fogelbise> Sensei has some good stabilization ideas in his lucid living audios
[14:34] <RelaxAndDream> when you rush your dreams you cant enjoy them
[14:34] <fogelbise> ^that was for Windoze
[14:34] <%Sensei> thanks fogelbise. I will also be posting the transcript on DV.
[14:35] <%Sensei>  RelaxAndDream, depends on what you enjoy.  :tongue2:  I like to slow down before enjoying, but after that, I like to speed up and enjoy a plethora of things.
[14:35] <%Sensei> kind of like the having sex 3 times in one dream.
[14:35] <RelaxAndDream> you have big balls i get it  :wink2: 
[14:36] <fogelbise> endless supply of balls when lucid
[14:36] <%Sensei> I have 10 balls.
[14:36] <RelaxAndDream> dragon balls?  :smiley: 
[14:36] <fogelbise> why 10? BRB
[14:36] <%Sensei> there are only seven of those.
[14:36] <RelaxAndDream> hm
[14:36] <%Sensei> I dunno, just random.  :tongue2: 
[14:36] <RelaxAndDream> long time not seen dragon balls...
[14:37] <%Sensei> you have however many of anything you want in dreams.  :tongue2: 
[14:37] <RelaxAndDream> so in my dreams it IS possible to have 10 dragon balls  :tongue2: 
[14:37] <%Sensei> or real balls.
[14:38] <Windoze98> come to think of it i've never thought to see how i look like in a drem
[14:38] <Windoze98> *dream
[14:38] <%Sensei> I am usually huge (12+ inches), but that is a little off topic. haha
[14:39] <RelaxAndDream> do your wife lucid dream too sensei?
[14:39] <%Sensei> ok, so any other questions?
[14:39] <fogelbise> Windozecool way to get lucid. I have been a black dude and a black boy in my dream mirror and got me lucid
[14:39] <%Sensei> She has random ones. She doesn't try to or care too, just does them randomly. She has had about 20 or 30 in the  last few years.
[14:40] <RelaxAndDream> do she wake up instantaniosly or can she enjoy them?
[14:40] <%Sensei> she enjoys them. Usually flying around or sexing.
[14:40] <Windoze98> is there a way to be able to think straight? my mind always seems fuzzy when i dream
[14:41] <%Sensei> normal lucid stuff.
[14:41] <%Sensei> experience, and slowing down.
[14:41] <fogelbise> windozemeditation, WBTB, self awareness
[14:41] <%Sensei> Pretty much everything that you work on to Lucid dream is going to be working towards more awareness and thinking more clearly.
[14:42] <fogelbise> slowing down is very effective
[14:43] <%Sensei> Or you can wake yourself up and DEILD back. A good way to grab your goals if you really can't get them... but if you remember that much, you usually remember your goals.
[14:43] <Windoze98> i try to slow down/calm down but whenever i try to start doing something i get excited again
[14:43] <%Sensei> It is good to be excited and enjoy the moment, but maybe a calm excitement. Usually meditation is going to help with keeping your mind under control.
[14:44] <fogelbise> and time/experience
[14:45] <fogelbise> i still sometimes get quite excited but reign it in/adjust it down a notch
[14:45] <%Sensei> Lucid dreaming is like sex a lot. :/
[14:45] <dolphin> Imagine achieving your goal. Then in the dream, try to recreate what you imagined.
[14:46] <fogelbise> like the analogy Sensei
[14:46] <%Sensei> indeed. That is why sex in a LD takes a lot of emotional control.
[14:46] <fogelbise> Treating sex in dream more like IWL also extends the experience in my experience
[14:47] <RelaxAndDream> okay so now i have another question to that is not nessecarily dreamcontrol: i starting to get more early/midnight lucids without wbtb but they are very semilucid. i do lucid stuff like flying and TK but never get of the story i dont think straight like i normaly get lucid and KNOW that i am lucid. its always a vague lucidity. after i wake up i need some moments to realize i was nearly or semi lucid. after a normal lucid after a wbtb i just
[14:47] <%Sensei> Not just going up to a rando DC and being like... you me now.
[14:47] <RelaxAndDream> wake up. how can i change this early lucids without wbtb to more awareness? mantras or something?
[14:47] <fogelbise> I should think of a good questionnot much time leftgood someone does
[14:48] <%Sensei> Well, experience is going to be the biggest change. You will notice that you start slowing down and thinking more and catching those semi lucids. One thing I changed, was how I thought about lucid dreaming .
[14:49] <%Sensei> instead of "becoming lucid" I changed the goal to thinking "I'm dreaming" because it is something that I know about and have known about my whole life. When the word lucid comes up I think of this.
[14:49] <%Sensei> Lying
[14:49] <%Sensei> Under
[14:49] <%Sensei> Covers
[14:49] <%Sensei> In
[14:49] <%Sensei> Dream
[14:50] <fogelbise> make dream control one of your dream signs if dream control or dream only actions are not a big part of your non lucids
[14:50] <%Sensei> So instead of "I'm lucid, I can do whatever I want" which is the ideas that you have connected with lucidity. I am in a dream. Which is a much bigger pile of schema to pull out of my head and think about.
[14:51] <%Sensei> Yeah, dream control is a RC in itself.
[14:51] <%Sensei> You can also do some visualizations of what you commonly see in a dream and imagine slowing down and getting lucid.
[14:53] == Windoze98 [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds]
[14:54] <RelaxAndDream> hm i dont know when to focus on what.... but maybe its to much for this chat now and we can disscuss it later...
[14:54] <%Sensei> haha, you can always PM me.  :tongue2: 
[14:55] <fogelbise> yeah, i can only focus on so many things at any given time when it comes to LD'ingsome have become more habit or automatic, but not enough
[14:55] <%Sensei> Also, since it is kind of drawing to an end! I would recommend checking out the dream control and stabilization class if you haven't already. Sign up! It is a good way to keep track of your control progress and be excited about LDing.
[14:55] <RelaxAndDream> in the day i try to keep focus of clocks and wrtinings and think of might this be a dream the whole time as long ... this leads to vivid long dreams and this semi lucids. befor i go to bed a i repeat some mantras like i remember that im dreaming and i try to keep track of my goals
[14:55] <RelaxAndDream> so when to push in these "special" RC?
[14:56] <RelaxAndDream> i thought dreamsign RC have to be done befor falling asleep?
[14:56] <%Sensei> Yeah, we can talk about induction over PM.
[14:56] <RelaxAndDream>  :wink2: 
[14:56] <RelaxAndDream> better it is i think  :smiley: 
[14:56] <RelaxAndDream> thank you^^
[14:57] <%Sensei>  :tongue2:  It is a date
[14:57] * Sensei hands RelaxAndDream flowers
[14:57] <RelaxAndDream> peed a little in his pants out of excitment...^^
[14:57] <%Sensei> It is going to be magical.
[14:58] <RelaxAndDream> now you rise my expectations to limitless... when i am not a god in induciton and lucid dreaming in general i will be disapointed  :smiley: 
[14:58] <%Sensei> fogelbise. that "only able to have one or two things on your mind" thing is one of the reasons I like to have differing levels of dream control too.
[14:59] <fogelbise> Thank you for running this Sensei. I will prepare a good question next time. Reminds me that your audio's are a good way to think about LDing before bed.
[14:59] <%Sensei> because you can only focus on one thing at a time, and attention can only be spread so thin, so you want certain things happening without your attention, or at least without very much. I talked about it in my thread here.
[14:59] <%Sensei> thanks fogelbise.  :smiley: 
[15:00] <dolphin> Thanks for running this, Sensei!
[15:00] <%Sensei> http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...esson-1-a.html
[15:00] <%Sensei> no problem, thanks for coming, and thanks for all your help and input everyone.  :smiley: 
[15:00] <%Sensei> I am super excited to go to sleep tonight now.  :tongue2: 
[15:01] <%Sensei> Have to wait 8 hours...
[15:01] <fogelbise> sweet dreams!
[15:02] <%Sensei> bai everyone.  :smiley:  Will be posting this in the chat thread, so if you want a review or want some of it removed for tax purposes, please check it out there.




If you have questions or anything, feel free to talk about it here.  :tongue2:

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## OpheliaBlue

Cool! I don't know my work schedule yet, but if I'm home then you can count me in  :smiley:

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## RelaxAndDream

nice, thank you for the time link too it tells me it will be at 8 here. hope its right then i should have time and will try to participate  :smiley:

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## Sensei

Getting everything ready for tomorrow, ordering the pizza, getting my notes together. Hope everyone is excited.  :smiley:

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## Patience108

Thanks Sensei  :smiley:  7-8 pm my time ...Today!! Wow cool - will do my best to be there and put my best dancing shoes on ::D:

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## fogelbise

Looks to be starting in 10 minutes...see you there  :smiley:

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## dolphin

Is the chat in this thread or is it somewhere else?

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## Sensei

Alright! OP has been updated with the chat that we had. It went very well, thanks for showing up everyone.  :smiley:

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