# Off-Topic Discussion > Extended Discussion >  >  Let's Study Sacred Geometry

## juroara

I want this thread to be for those of us here who want to study Sacred Geometry. I've only been studying it for two months, so I am no guru. Please post here any information you know about Sacred Geometry, both its cultural history, the scientific or religious applications, or a more in depth how-to-find-this-form in Sacred Geometry. I also realize this is not the first thread, but I couldn't find anything _complete_. (unless search doesn't work)

Now most of us here know about the golden mean: the golden section: or golden ratio. 



Fascinating and all, But so what? There are so many other aspects of nature that don't seem to follow the golden section at all. For most people, the golden section simply becomes a matter of aesthetics. Works of art and nothing more.

What most people don't know is, the golden section is derived from Sacred Geometry. It's just a tiny portion of the whole image.


*So what is Sacred Geometry?*

Sacred Geometry is *the belief that* *everything that is, ALL OF EXISTENCE is based on Sacred Geometry*. That's a very bold statement to make huh? It's why it caught my eye. Unlike the golden mean, which applications seem to fall short.

It seems almost....religious. Well technically yes, Sacred Geometry does have traditional spiritual beliefs with it. The egyptians believed Sacred Geometry was the key to achieve immortality. Mandalas are used as a form of meditation to achieve Oneness. It's permeated so many religions and spiritual beliefs in one form or another.

However, Sacred Geometry is a *left* and *right* brain practice. This makes the study of Sacred Geometry holistic. Anyone, theist, atheist, agnostic, christian, buddhist.....can appreciate it.

Where does it begin?

It begins with a *Single Point*

*.*

The single point has symbolized: the absolute root mental concept, the simplest idea possible, Oneness, undivided Godmind, The First Dimension, beyond duality

In the short story, the Single Point divides and becomes two points. Or Duality. A lot of amazing things happens here with Duality, we now have relationships to talk about. Such as space. The Second Dimension is created!! (wow!)

Keep in mind, up until this point....All that exists are these two points. And from their duality movement we get the Radius and Arc! And something new and magical happens! The creation of the circle!!!! Or...as some put it, the Big Bang! BOOOOOOOOOM!!




Do you already see what's happening with Sacred Geometry? Patterns...patterns. Just as the Single Point was undivided oneness in the First Dimension, the Circle represents Oneness for the Second Dimension. 

If you are new to Sacred Geometry, this webpage will show a quick and easy guide how Sacred Geometry forms *Natures First Pattern*. As well as another important form, the *Vesica Piscis*. 

http://charlesgilchrist.com/SGEO/SGIntro.html

There are more important forms in Sacred Geometry. The* Egg of Life.* The* Flower of Life* and the* Fruit of Life.*

This is the Flower of Life.



What can I say about the Flower of Life? Or the Vesica Piscis? Or about the other most important forms of Sacred Geometry? The truth is, I don't know where to begin! There is a whole book, probably at least 1000 pages on the Flower of Life. Just on the Flower of Life.

How can anyone write so much about one silly little picture composed of overlapping circles? 

Well theres a lot to say about the Flower of Life. If you're new to this, I'll give you some starting hints. The Platonic Solids. 

on the Gilchrist website you can watch some good videos on how the Platonic Solids are formed from Sacred Geometry. Here's an index of videos.

http://www.charlesgilchrist.com/SGEO/index.html

So now that we know how it all starts from a single point, how it creates this pattern, from which we get the Platonic Solids.......now what?

The now what is really were a lot of people get stuck, where they turn a blind eye on Sacred Geometry and what it has to offer us. Or maybe the problem is they expect someone to spill the beans and tell them everything about Sacred Geometry and its applications in one go.

That is like asking to learn physics in day and expecting to magically understand it and how it can be applied. 

So rather going in depth of the ABC list of Sacred Geometry, maybe someone else would like to, I would rather give you some advice when studying Sacred Geometry. You need to keep some perspectives in mind. You're *not* dealing with overlapping circles on a flat piece of paper. 

For one, the pattern quickly becomes Three Dimensional, and you are dealing with Spheres overlapping to and fro in space infinitely, Spheres within Spheres, within Spheres. The truth is, the real pattern of life, is too complex for any man to draw.

Now some people might like to imagine "Oh, I know how everything is formed from Sacred Geometry! The spheres are as tiny as atoms!" Ah...Thats one way to look at it. If the spheres of Sacred Geometry were tiny, then it becomes very easy to imagine how these tiny spheres can form any shape.

But that's a very naive way of looking at it. Just as our old understanding of atoms is naive.

One guru has said, Sacred Geometry _first_ forms thought. What does he mean? Well he meant what he meant, but if you don't like thought manifestation talks, you can see it as Sacred Geometry first describes energy before it describes matter. The picture is more complex than just little bubbles that form any shape.

Were dealing with the very geometry that created waves. Sound. Harmonics. Music.

What else? The list goes on. All from a single point. All from the circle. The sphere, the circle in motion.

This is the *Fruit of Life*



It's very important in Sacred Geometry. You can always easily recognize it with the seven circles. The seventh in the middle of the six. This is the Fruit of Life on its vertical axis, keep in mind it looks and feels different on the horizontal axis.

I found this image today! It's really exciting when you start finding Sacred Geometry in the real world. And I found the Fruit of Life on this video. And I think it's so important, but it's importance is entirely beyond me.

This is the video, another ted video
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/g...verything.html

I've attached the image. Recognize it? No no no no no. There are no coincidences in Sacred Geometry!! None! 

What are the applications of Sacred Geometry?

The applications are as endless as it forms. But the implications.....wow. That's where it's really at.

----------


## Souperman22

I don't understand how it's sacred. You never really explain what sacred geometry is. You use the phrase in its definition.

----------


## Xei

Derive the golden ratio.

Go on.

----------


## Licity

If the applications really are as endless as you suggest, then what are some of them? The only thing that jumps to my mind is the Parthenon. I recall being taught that some parts of the Parthenon's construction utilized the Golden Ratio.

----------


## juroara

> I don't understand how it's sacred. You never really explain what sacred geometry is. You use the phrase in its definition.




I'm not sure who first coined it 'Sacred Geometry'. My guess is the term comes from the 1800s? 

It was called 'sacred' because this geometry was usually held as secret knowledge in ancient time. It was called sacred, because the ancient men who were fixated on it, were convinced this geometry was divine. That learning the secrets of this geometry, you could learn the secrets to how the gods or God created the universe. 

In other words, this geometry was fully integrated into the religions of ancient men. Back then, religion and science were one and the same. 

The knowledge, through esoteric sects, survived even onto early christianity

Here are some of examples

the flower of life in the temple of osiris



The Kabbalah Tree of Life, Derived from the Flower of Life



This design is also derived from the pattern, it's on a Knights of Templar tombstone



A 3D Flower of Life in the paws of a Chinese Fu dog dragon



From what I've been told the Mayan Calender is another example, but I can't find any good images showing it. Instead I have this.



Really, the depth and understanding of these images can't be expressed in a few posts. For a reason, the circle with multiple compartments has always expressed time, or rather the movement of the heavens. 

I think this image might relate to the Mayan Calender for those in the know

Sacred Geometry never stopped being sacred! One of the most important forms are mandalas!



Or maybe this example will be more obvious



The lotus flower of the chakra, is not actually a flower. But sacred geometry! no surprise there!

wondering how to get the chakras from the pattern of life? maybe this tapestry makes it more clear



I'm attaching a few more examples. One of them is the Egyptian site corresponding to the golden mean. A detail of how the sphinx fits into it, the golden section I think? And then the author slapped it on top of another Sacred Geometry calender

does that help explain the sacredness of it?  ::D:  and did I also answer how to get the golden mean from it?

----------


## juroara

> If the applications really are as endless as you suggest, then what are some of them? The only thing that jumps to my mind is the Parthenon. I recall being taught that some parts of the Parthenon's construction utilized the Golden Ratio.



you're really asking the wrong person! thats like asking how to apply science? sure its one thing to study the natural world. its another to realize you can use what you have learned to create something new! I'm no genius

the problem is our schooling. It only taught us the golden stuff. And how its used in architecture and art.

to first understand how its applications are endless, you first need to understand that Sacred Geometry is in fact the geometry of everything that is. 

as in...everything around you, in you, even your thoughts are mapped by this geometry. Even the forces of nature, gravitational fields. We first need to understand this knowledge before we can really apply it. Of course I expect everyone to be skeptical of this geometry describing everything that is!!

And if you are really skeptical of it, as anyone would be, maybe watching the video I posted can help you think differently. Which shows Sacred Geometry patterns in a talk about particles

You'll have to first learn the basics. how to get the platonic solids. Theres really no short hand learning to this stuff. Everyone who studies sacred geometry will tell you, its not enough that you look at these drawings. You have to draw it out yourself!

Its the same as math, you really need to do math yourself to understand. After all, this is still geometry.

Get a circle drawing tool, what ever its called, and draw your first pattern of life. Find the flower of life. find metatrons cube. find the harmonics of music. Who knows what else you'll find! Probably more than me, because I just suck at math.

Its really too early to start talking about the applications, it would just derail this thread  ::D: 

How about we find more examples of this geometry in nature? Because im sure everyone is rolling their eyes at the thought of this being the geometry of everything.

Let's take a step back. 



This football shaped is reveered! Its been called the womb of life. Very fitting words. Again, its called the Vesica Piscis.

This is you....when you were tiny  ::banana:: 



And those two spheres are about to re-enact Sacred Geometry. They are going to overlap, and form a Vesica Piscis



You literally are the Vesica Piscis.


This Sacred Geometry pattern is called the Egg of Life...Do you know why?


Count the spheres. Seven, with one in the center.



Look familiar?

----------


## WakataDreamer

God likes patterns and harmony, what can I say.

QED.

----------


## juroara

hi there, me again! found another fun example!

for all those who meditate! or even just flat out hallucinate weird geometrical things

in the hindu and buddhist tradition OM is the sound of creation. When meditating to the sound OM, the monks began to see this image. And they drew the image, a mandala, Sri Yantra

this drawing is from the 18th century


so this drawing is based on what they saw while meditating to OM

and this is OM spoken into an electronic transmitter


really id talk about the harmonics of music, sound and form, but thats way beyond my head

so you get this example instead!

----------


## WakataDreamer

> God likes patterns and harmony, what can I say.
> 
> QED.



 :tongue2: 

Almost makes you want to believe in intelligent design, doesn't it?

There's no way that the perfection of the universe, nature, and the harmonic way that everything interacts could have been formed from random chance.



Centric diatom, a microscopic organism that lives in abundance in the ocean



Nautilus shell, the shell of a creature that has been around since the time of the dinosaurs and continues to exist

Click for img, too large for me to want to embed

Honeycombs of bees, perfect hexagons

There's just... no... way.  ::meditate::

----------


## Xei

...so are you going to derive the golden ratio or not?




> There's no way that the perfection of the universe, nature, and the harmonic way that everything interacts could have been formed from random chance.



Why not? The evidence shows that it clearly was due to chance. Patterns arise without guidance.

----------


## The Cusp

What's with all those Sacred Geometry movies for kids?

The Last Mimzy
Bridge to Terebithia
The Dark Crystal

There's a whole bunch more I can't think of at the moment.

----------


## wasup

this thread is hilarious.  "Sacred geometry is the belief that everything is based on sacred geometry."   Orly?  I love how people are throwing out tons of baseless claims.  "Sacred geometry has a ton of applications"  "Like what" "The hell if I know, I'm no scientist!!"

"There is no way that all the patterns in the world came into existence solely through chance."  First of all, if you study around a bit you'll find that patterns are actually more likely to occur by "chance" (especially the type of chance that includes elements of non-chance, e.g. evolution where chance symmetry is encouraged by natural selection).  For example, bilateral symmetry gives organisms the ability to interact with their environment just as well from all sides, is more attractive to mates (selective mating), among other things.  In just the same way, this so called "golden ratio" was most probably encouraged through evolution.

----------


## Specialis Sapientia

Sacred geometry is very interesting  :smiley: 

This is how sound makes patterns:



Snowflakes:


















Fibonacci numbers:

----------


## juroara

> ...so are you going to derive the golden ratio or not?




I don't understand your question? I already showed through an image how to derive the golden ratio from natures first pattern, or do you want to see more in between steps?

----------


## juroara

> What's with all those Sacred Geometry movies for kids?
> 
> The Last Mimzy
> Bridge to Terebithia
> The Dark Crystal
> 
> There's a whole bunch more I can't think of at the moment.



the bridge to terabithia? really? I must have missed that one

kids love Sacred Geometry, except they just call it pretty designs  :smiley:

----------


## Xei

> I don't understand your question? I already showed through an image how to derive the golden ratio from natures first pattern, or do you want to see more in between steps?



See, this is my point. You don't actually have any idea what you're talking about; your ideas are entirely superficial.

If you had any comprehension beyond aesthetics, you would know that the golden _ratio_ (you must know what a ratio is, surely?) is an irrational number which can be easily found from its definition.

Do you know what its definition is?

----------


## juroara

> See, this is my point. You don't actually have any idea what you're talking about; your ideas are entirely superficial.



xei  it is a FACT that the golden spiral is found in Sacred Geometry

the actual GEOMETRY of sacred geometry, is still, GEOMETRY

and it takes more than a few minutes to find all of the geometrical forms. 

seriously. all you do is look for something to insult people with. and in this case you have this idea that I'm ignorant about sacred geometry. guess what xei, I admitted I've only been studying sacred geometry for *two months*. most sacred geometry gurus have been at this for YEARS.

I said I created this thread to *study* sacred geometry with others. not that I knew everything about it. so I don't understand why you feel the need to argue about my desire to openly study sacred geometry with others

have you ever drawn the pattern of life before?

do you realize you need to draw the pattern of life EVERY TIME you start sacred geometry?

do you know how much time that takes?

I don't have any computer programs to do it for me, so I have to draw it by hand. which I have. and if your drawing tool is off by even a tiny tiny millimeter - then you're drawing is inaccurate and some where down the line, lines that should connect don't. meaning you won't be able to find the geometrical patterns. making all your time and effort drawing these over-lapping circles useless

it doesn't help my drawing tool only uses a pencil, and the varying thickness of the pencil line as it draws on the page creates millimeter variations. the pattern of life must be mathematically precise, there is no room for error.

so hell no, I am not going to sit here and draw for hours to prove that the golden spiral is in Sacred Geometry. there is nothing to dispute here. it is in Sacred Geometry, we know this, others have shown how you find it

your'e repsect is worthless. but because im sooo kind, Ive wasted more of my time finding these images

----------


## Xei

You don't seem to have the faintest idea what you are talking about. You're using all these mystical-sounding words without a trace of comprehension.

For your benefit, the golden ratio is such that the ratio of one shorter section of a line to the longer section is equal to the ratio of that longer section to the total length of the line.

i.e. a/b = b/(a+b)

If you set a = 1 and solve it you'll get the golden number.

----------


## Specialis Sapientia

This guy is totally into it. Look at his paintings  ::-P: 

Metatron's Cube, the fruit of life combined with the platonic solids.

----------


## Sisyphus50

These patterns exist in nature for (at least) two reasons:

- They are efficient for resource allocation within the organism, promoting its survival.
- The brains of insects and higher species function on pattern recognition, promoting interest in either eating or picking the flower (whatever it is) and spreading its seeds further than it could otherwise spread (another survival trait). They are aesthetically pleasing to the eye, so they get your attention.

There's nothing mystical or magical about them, they simply arise out of natural principles of efficiency of form. 

The next person to claim evolution works on random chance is getting a thunderous bitch slap. *Mutations* occur by random chance. Selection is the exact OPPOSITE of chance. These patterns were selected for being efficient.

----------


## Arcana

awesome
I started studying it some months ago as part of my occult studies but didnt finished it

----------


## Zhaylin

This has been very interesting.

Personally, I don't believe that geometry in and of itself is sacred.  But I've always been fascinated by patterns and the drawings here are absolutely beautiful.
I could never even attempt to draw anything remotely like these because I have a slight tremor and couldn't draw a circle to save my life lol

----------


## juroara

> You don't seem to have the faintest idea what you are talking about. You're using all these mystical-sounding words without a trace of comprehension.
> 
> For your benefit, the golden ratio is such that the ratio of one shorter section of a line to the longer section is equal to the ratio of that longer section to the total length of the line.
> 
> i.e. a/b = b/(a+b)
> 
> If you set a = 1 and solve it you'll get the golden number.




ohh thank you! you posted the math!


thats nice! 



but so what.



I'm not going to build a building here xei, I could careless about the math of the golden ratio. 

And while you may think you're making yourself look so smart, it just makes you look foolish. Because the point of Sacred Geometry has gone way over your head

the very heart of Sacred Geometry is that everything is related. Everything is connected. _Unity_. This is the point of Sacred Geometry. This is WHY people study it. You study Sacred Geometry if you are interested in a _holistic_ understanding of our universe. 

If someone wants to know the math of the golden ratio, they pull out a math book. If they want to know how the golden ratio is* connected* to the harmonics of music, Sacred Geometry is better than any math book.

you may freely post your opinion that everything is chance. however, this is not a thread to debate whether things are connected or whether things are chance. 

this is instead a thread to discover how things are connected through Sacred Geometry, to gain a _holistic_ knowledge for the mere _joy_ of enrinching your mind. and then when you have this holistic knowledge you can apply it to either a left(scientific) or right(philosophical) brain activity.

Sacred Geometry is NOT left brained (science and mathematics)

Sacred Geometry is NOT right brained (philosophy and religion)

Sacred Geometry is BOTH and NEITHER

There is a left-brained and a right-brained approach to studying Sacred Geometry, both are very different approaches. BOTH ARE EQUALLY VALID.

One asks you to quiet your mind and meditate. One asks you to know your sciences. But BOTH persons ENJOY the holistic feeling that Sacred Geometry has to offer. This wonderfull feeling of unity. They both enjoy it. They both welcome it. Even those who take the left-brain approach would never use _chance_ to describe what they are seeing.

There are however more right brained people studying it than left brained people. 

This is not because there is no left brain approach or left brained application of it. But rather our formal education is left brained, so usually left brained people are very happy with formal education and are less likely to turn to alternative studies

*The video that I posted is a left brain application of Sacred Geometry*

the scientist looks at his geometrical design.......and realizes the design isn't perfect. it's missing two points. he literally adds two new points to his design. By doing so, he is theorizing that these two points are yet to be seen particles.

He even says he is using the Theory of *Unification*. This is Sacred Geometry.

 ::meditate:: 


here is the video again, for anyone!!

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/371

----------


## juroara

> This guy is totally into it. Look at his paintings 
> 
> Metatron's Cube, the fruit of life combined with the platonic solids.




Gilchrist is the best!  ::D:  I mean..look how old he is and he knows how to youtube? thats like what..awesome

I hope he makes more videos on how to find the more complex forms

----------


## juroara

> These patterns exist in nature for (at least) two reasons:
> 
> - They are efficient for resource allocation within the organism, promoting its survival.
> - The brains of insects and higher species function on pattern recognition, promoting interest in either eating or picking the flower (whatever it is) and spreading its seeds further than it could otherwise spread (another survival trait). They are aesthetically pleasing to the eye, so they get your attention.
> 
> There's nothing mystical or magical about them, they simply arise out of natural principles of efficiency of form.




Sacred Geometry doesn't just talk about patterns only found in organisms. it also talks about your avatar

mystical is not magical. mystical is a practice of directly experiencing knowledge. that knowledge can still be scientific.

I started this thread. And not once did I use magic to describe Sacred Geometry. On the contrary, in the _belief_ of Sacred Geometry everything is interrelated on a very complex geometrical form. A geometrical form we can study and understand

magic on the other hand implies there is something we can't understand

----------


## Xei

That's so ridiculous it's hilarious.

----------


## ♥Mark

Let's study sacred calculus next.

----------


## Photolysis

Hah, what a bunch of crap. You say that was from a 'physics' forum? Sure. That's also a spectacularly bad understanding of *biology* as well.

I especially like the part where it goes on about soft tissues resonating, which basically doesn't happen due to the elastic and somewhat pliable nature of them.

Or the idea what what would effectively be localised brain trauma releases soothing chemicals!

I can understand pseudoscience with language used out of context (e.g. quantum [whatever]) throwing you off, but surely even you wouldn't believe stuff like:





> and thus it may shake the brain sufficiently to cause nearly all areas of your brain to 'dump' their euphoric chemicals into your bloodstream and cerebral fluid.



... right?

----------


## Kuhnada29

> What are Alpha waves?
> 
> A waveform like the alpha can be described through its frequency. Alpha waves have a range between 7 to 12 HZ and they are giving the brain and body deep rest.
> 
> The Alpha state is generally brought on by de-focusing one's attention. Alpha waves are naturally produced by the brain, when you relax. In this relaxation you are alert, but not drowsy or sleepy.
> 
> The brain can easily be inspired to produce alpha waves through external sources such as music - especially through certain rhythmical patterns. These alpha patterns can be audible and / or so low in volume that they can only picked up by the subconscious mind.
> The brain & wave coherence
> 
> ...




http://www.music4meditation.com/alph...meditation.htm

----------


## Dannon Oneironaut

Music definately affects consciousness. That is why some music helps to get a woman 'in the mood'.
People who like the same music seem to have the same types of minds.

----------


## Jussinlee

> I don't understand how it's sacred. You never really explain what sacred geometry is. You use the phrase in its definition.



Sacred is merely a word we have used to establish what the essence of it is. The Flower of Life has been found all over the world including: India, Turkey,Spain,China,Marrakesh,Lebanon,Egypt,Austria  ,Denmark, the Louvre...etc. In China, the Forbidden City courtyard, guarding the temple are two lions, male and female, and under the males paw sits a three dimensional Flower of Life sphere. The profound wisdom in its nature was understood by the ancients, deeming it "Sacred". Metatron's Cube and the 5 platonic solids are the basis  structure in our universe.

Proportions are an interesting thing to look at. Such as Vitruvian Man by Leonardo da Vinci.

----------


## ChaybaChayba

> As my post showed, your example is clearly fraudulent. The golden ratio is 1.6, and the solar system example you gave presents us ratios of 7 and 1, that's nowhere nowhere near the golden ratio.



Hahahaha, this guy wants to be all skeptic and discuss the golden ratio but doesn't understand what a ratio is! Just classic  ::lol::  love this thread btw, keep up the posts dannon and hardwired, I'm really learning alot from you and it's exactly what I've been looking for the relation between geometry and music.

----------


## ChaybaChayba

> Groups
> 
> Let's begin with the definition of a group.  We will write our groups as (G, *) where G is a set (this is just a collection of things) and * is a binary operation on G. This means that * takes two elements of G and returns a third. Furthermore, (G, *) must satisfy three axioms:
> 
> associativity: for all a, b and c in G, (a*b)*c = a*(b*c) identity element: there exists an element e in G such that for all elements a of G, e*a = aexistence of inverses:  For every element a of G, there exists an element which we write as a^-1 or as -a such that a*a^-1 = e.
> Examples of Groups
> 
>  (Z, +)
> 
> ...



Lol please verification of what details? There aren't any. I challenge you to perform said "exercise" to show how you're not full of it  This is going to be good.

----------


## Scatterbrain

Classic Chayba, as ignorant and idiot as ever comes in all condescending without even constructing an argument. Good job.





> Hahahaha, this guy wants to be all skeptic and discuss the golden ratio but doesn't understand what a ratio is! Just classic  love this thread btw, keep up the posts dannon and hardwired, I'm really learning alot from you and it's exactly what I've been looking for the relation between geometry and music.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ratio_line.svg

This is what the golden ratio is, clear and simple. Can you explain how my post contradicts the definition? (or how this definition is wrong?)

(And don't even bother with pointing fingers and shouting 'ad hominem'. You patronizingly said my earlier argument is wrong without a justification, so there's nothing for me to refute and I owe you no respect, you're the one who has to substantiate your idiotic claim.)

----------


## Jussinlee

Einstein's Theory of relativity and the quantum theory do not agree AT ALL! 
The anwser lies with black holes! They are found in the middle of every galaxy in the universe, and soon they will be found to be every proton in an atom. This also describes what "entanglement" is. A particle does not have to be in one place at the same time, it is the preceiver that makes that illusion possible. This universe is a vast network of vacuum's.

This is described in Physicist Nassim Harameins' paper:
http://www.theresonanceproject.org/p...glaw_paper.pdf
"In this paper we develop a scaling law utilizing the Schwarzschild condition as well as discuss charge and
rotation within a modified Kerr-Newman metric (the Haramein-Rauscher solution involving torque and Coriolis
effects in the field equations [2]) for cosmological, galactic, stellar and micro physical black holes."
also:
http://theresonanceproject.org/pdf/s..._proton_a4.pdf
"The Schwarzschild proton strongly suggests that matter at many scales may be
organized by black-holes and black hole-like phenomena and thereby lead to a scale
unification of the fundamental forces and matter."
Quantum Gravity Unification of Strong Nuclear Force

If we look at anything in our daily lives, such as a chair, or maybe a rock, it is put together by these smaller things, that are connected. So you could call this rock conscious now, because if you can expand your perametres of what consciousness is, then you can see this in plain site, with its manifestation. In this way we see that the macrocosm and the microcosm, infinetly small and infinetly big, are no different.

----------


## Xei

> Lol please verification of what details? There aren't any. I challenge you to perform said "exercise" to show how you're not full of it This is going to be good.



Verification that the given set and operation fulfill the Group axioms.

Isn't that obvious?

----------


## beachgirl

i love this thread... sacred geomtery covers everything from subatomic particles to quatum particles to how our universe looks... and even our anatomy... from cells to the human body.

count me in... that's why many call it sacred... it unifies things existing on the largest and smallest scales by the same principles... 

beachgirl...

----------


## Jussinlee

If you take the joints in your hands, and divide the lengths of each phalanx into one another you get the phi ratio. Same thing goes for hands and arms, feet and legs, the phi ration appears: 1.61803399 

It's just a proportion, but the Golden mean is infinite. You will find the mean in billions of places, literally every single cell in your body. This proportion must mean something very important to creation, obviously because it is the most important proportion compared to all other possibilities in mathematics.

----------


## Xei

> the Golden mean is infinite



It's less than 2.

----------


## Scatterbrain

> You will find the mean in billions of places, literally every single cell in your body.



Really? Where in a cell does the golden ratio appear?

----------


## ChaybaChayba

> Verification that the given set and operation fulfill the Group axioms.
> 
> Isn't that obvious?



If it's so obvious why didn't you verify it?  ::lol::

----------


## Xei

Because I wasn't asked to.  ::lol:: 

Also because I'm currently doing a course on groups at university so it's extremely trivial for me and I've also done it about fifty times before.  ::lol:: 

Dodge fail.  ::lol::

----------


## Scatterbrain

> This is what the golden ratio is, clear and simple. Can you explain how my post contradicts the definition? (or how this definition is wrong?)





Chayba, I'm gonna take your silence as a 'No I can't, I was just trolling'.

----------


## Jussinlee

The digits of the Golden Ratio go on to infinity without any pattern repeating. It's related to the Fibonacci Sequence and is obtained by dividing each number in the series by the one that precedes it. The Golden Proportion, phi, has been observed to evoke emotion or  aesthetic feelings within us. The ancient Egyptians used it in the construction of the great pyramids and in the design of hieroglyphs found on tomb walls. At another time, thousands of miles away, the ancients of Mexico embraced phi while building the Sun Pyramid at Teotihuacan. The Greeks studied phi closely through their mathematics and used it in their architecture. The Parthenon at Athens is a classic example of the use of the Golden Rectangle. Plato in his Timaeus considered it the most binding of all mathematical relations and makes it the key to the physics of the cosmos. During the Renaissance, phi served as the "hermetic" structure on which great masterpieces were composed. Renowned artists such as Michelangelo, Raphael, and Leonardo da Vinci made use of it for they knew of its appealing qualities. Evidence suggests that classical music composed by Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach embraces phi. Fibonacci numbers and the Golden Ratio are manifestations of the innate harmony, symmetry, and balance in the universe. Whether consciously or subconsciously, we have tapped into and benefited by nature's truth. Indeed, we are all part of a cosmic dance in which we affect and are affected by everyone and everything.

----------


## Scatterbrain

> The digits of the Golden Ratio go on to infinity without any pattern repeating. It's related to the Fibonacci Sequence and is obtained by dividing each number in the series by the one that precedes it. The Golden Proportion, phi, has been observed to evoke emotion or  aesthetic feelings within us. The ancient Egyptians used it in the construction of the great pyramids and in the design of hieroglyphs found on tomb walls. At another time, thousands of miles away, the ancients of Mexico embraced phi while building the Sun Pyramid at Teotihuacan. The Greeks studied phi closely through their mathematics and used it in their architecture. The Parthenon at Athens is a classic example of the use of the Golden Rectangle. Plato in his Timaeus considered it the most binding of all mathematical relations and makes it the key to the physics of the cosmos. During the Renaissance, phi served as the "hermetic" structure on which great masterpieces were composed. Renowned artists such as Michelangelo, Raphael, and Leonardo da Vinci made use of it for they knew of its appealing qualities. Evidence suggests that classical music composed by Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach embraces phi. Fibonacci numbers and the Golden Ratio are manifestations of the innate harmony, symmetry, and balance in the universe. Whether consciously or subconsciously, we have tapped into and benefited by nature's truth. Indeed, we are all part of a cosmic dance in which we affect and are affected by everyone and everything.



Copy-paste, nice.

http://www.summum.us/philosophy/phi.shtml

----------


## Jussinlee

I personally don't think it exists anywhere in the universe, it's only this idea of this perfect proportion. Life doesn't know how to use these kinds of numbers..Life likes real numbers!! So life figured out this AMAZING thing, thanks to Leonardo Pisano Bogollo (Fibonacci). 
1
1
2
3
5
8
13
21
34
55
89
144
233
377
610
987
1597
2584
4181
6765
10946
17711
28657
46368
75025
121393
196418
317811
514229
832040
1346269
2178309
3524578
5702887
9227465
14930352
24157817
39088169
63245986
102334155
165580141
267914296
433494437
701408733
1134903170
1836311903
2971215073
4807526976
7778742049
1258626902
So life trys to look for this ULTIMATE proportion, but never gets there. If you divide each of these numbers into eachother going down the line, you notice that It goes over, then under, over, under, over, and under and so on, but never achieves the phi.
1 
under
2
over
1.5
under
1.666666667
over
1.6
under
1.625
over
1.615384615
1.619047619
1.617647059
1.618181818
1.617977528
1.618055556
1.618025751
1.618037135
1.618032787
1.618034448
1.618033813
1.618034056
1.618033963
1.618033999
1.618033985
1.61803399
1.618033988
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
1.618033989
A perfect example of this would be the nautical shell in its spiraling.

----------


## Jussinlee

> Copy-paste, nice.
> 
> http://www.summum.us/philosophy/phi.shtml



This was not my original source, but thanks!

----------


## Scatterbrain

So what you're saying is that math is sacred?

----------


## Jussinlee

Like I said before, it was deemed 'sacred' only because the ancients understood it's profound wisdom. I can guarantee you that if you expressed anything dealing with "scared geometry" or the like in ancient times, you would be executed, only the people at the top of hierarchy deserved this knowledge.

----------


## Xei

> So life trys to look for this ULTIMATE proportion, but never gets there. If you divide each of these numbers into eachother going down the line, you notice that It goes over, then under, over, under, over, and under and so on, but never achieves the phi.



Well, technically that's not a proof cause you don't know if it'll ever reach it or not.

But you can actually prove it quite easily. I can show you if you want, but it's basically because phi is (1 + sqrt5)/2 and sqrt5 can never be written as a rational number (a fraction).

----------


## Jussinlee

You probably could calculate it, but you would most likely spend your whole lifetime!  This phi equation does not just represent sqrt5. Even though sqrt5 is still a real number, it's not just sqrt5. But go for it!
I think this is fascinating!

I recommend this video to anyone reading this forum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDvZGKlxL1Q&NR=1

----------


## Scatterbrain

> Like I said before, it was deemed 'sacred' only because the ancients understood it's profound wisdom. I can guarantee you that if you expressed anything dealing with "scared geometry" or the like in ancient times, you would be executed, only the people at the top of hierarchy deserved this knowledge.



I wasn't talking about the golden ratio or anything specifically. This thread hasn't seen yet any evidence that phi is any more special or "sacred" than other concepts of mathematics.

Why is phi such 'profound wisdom'? Pi is much more useful, and I haven't seen anyone calling it divine.  ::?:

----------


## Jussinlee

I understand what you are saying, but I only say this because it is an anomaly in the fact that you can see it in nature WHEREVER you look. I'm not calling anything "divine".. it's just "very specific field geometry" as one physicist might put it.

----------


## Xei

What about e goddamnit? e is far cooler than pi.

And besides, pi is really only -2i times the log base e of -1. :V




> You probably could calculate it, but you would most likely spend your whole lifetime! This phi equation does not just represent sqrt5. Even though sqrt5 is still a real number, it's not just sqrt5. But go for it!
> I think this facinating!



phi is (1 + sqrt5)/2. That's exactly what phi is.

What do you mean by 'calculate it'..? If you mean write down the decimal expansion, that is infinite.

Basically if you assume it's a fraction p/q (p, q whole numbers),

(1 + sqrt5)/2 = p/q
=> sqrt 5 = 2p/q -1 = (2p -q)/q which is just another fraction, say a/b, where a and b don't cancel.
Then sqrt5 = a/b
=> 5 = (a/b)^2 = a^2/b^2
=> a^2 = 5b^2 => a divides by 5, so write a = 5c.
=> sqrt5 = 5c/b
=> 5 = (5c/b)^2 = 5^2*c^2/b^2
=> b^2 = 5c^2 => b divides by 5, so write b = 5d.
But then a/b = 5c/5d which contradicts the statement that a and b don't cancel, because we can divide both by 5 to get c/d.

Hence phi can't be written as a fraction.

Interestingly though, phi + 1/phi = -1, which is a fraction.

----------


## Jussinlee

Didn't you say that it's not infinite?

----------


## Xei

The decimal expansion has an infinite number of 'random' digits.

Phi itself is not infinite. Infinity isn't even a number anyway, technically.

----------


## Jussinlee

Phi is recursive, yes we know this..

----------


## Xei

How can a number be recursive?

----------


## Jussinlee

I'm generalizing, because you can apply phi to anything!

----------


## Xei

Right, every adjective ever applies to phi.

Including 'negative', and 'integer', I suppose..?

----------


## Kuhnada29

> How can a number be recursive?







> Recursion: (mathematics) an expression such that each term is generated by repeating a particular mathematical operation



I thought you were supposed to be a math wiz? Pffftt

----------


## Jussinlee

The underlying principle of the Unified Field Theory is phi recursion, and also qunatum gravity. 




> Einstein's Theory of relativity and the quantum theory do not agree AT ALL! 
> The anwser lies with black holes! They are found in the middle of every galaxy in the universe, and soon they will be found to be every proton in an atom. This also describes what "entanglement" is. A particle does not have to be in one place at the same time, it is the preceiver that makes that illusion possible. This universe is a vast network of vacuum's.
> 
> This is described in Physicist Nassim Harameins' paper:
> http://www.theresonanceproject.org/p...glaw_paper.pdf
> "In this paper we develop a scaling law utilizing the Schwarzschild condition as well as discuss charge and
> rotation within a modified Kerr-Newman metric (the Haramein-Rauscher solution involving torque and Coriolis
> effects in the field equations [2]) for cosmological, galactic, stellar and micro physical black holes."
> also:
> ...



For a better understanding of  consciousness and the Unified Field Theory, I recommend this video:John Hagelin, Ph.D on Consciousness

----------


## Jussinlee

Plank length is the smallest measurement of length with any meaning. 
 
where c is the speed of light in a vacuum, G is the gravitational constant, and ħ is the reduced Planck constant.
This is directly related to the Phi ratio, which is the very essence of all self-replicating systems, the question is, what is replicating itself?

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/planck/node2.html
http://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Value?plkl

----------


## Xei

> I thought you were supposed to be a math wiz? Pffftt



Are you trying to look stupid? If you actually read what you quoted (actually I'd imagine you did but just found it impossible to comprehend), it says that a recursion defines a series of numbers. How is phi a series of numbers??

And yeah, I'm studying maths at Cambridge, which is the best and most academically selective university for mathematics in the world. So I know at least slightly more than you here.




> Plank length is the smallest measurement of length with any meaning. 
>  
> where c is the speed of light in a vacuum, G is the gravitational constant, and ħ is the reduced Planck constant.
> *This is directly related to the Phi ratio*, which is the very essence of all self-replicating systems, the question is, what is replicating itself?



No it isn't.

----------


## Jussinlee

Well that is exactly what leading Physicists today are trying to prove for the Grand Unified Theory!! And I'm sure you can sit there any try to prove me wrong, but I personally don't believe in coincidence.

----------


## Xei

How can I possibly prove you wrong? You haven't tried to give any evidence yet.

----------


## Jussinlee

haha I don't have any for you, honestly I don't really know. But they have to relate SOMEHOW, I'm sure you can multiply them together to get some significant number, maybe?  ::?:

----------


## Xei

Uh well you can divide it by phi to get approximately 10^-35. But metres are a completely arbitrary human invention (the French decided that there should be 10,000 between the North pole and the Equator). Base 10 is also completely arbitrary. So there's no connection whatsoever there. How can there be, the Planck length has dimension wheras phi is dimensionless. There can't possibly be any meaningful relation between the two values.

Did you just make this stuff up or something..? It's really very random of you to have chosen the Planck (not 'plank' by the way) length to talk about.

----------


## Jussinlee

You just think this conicidence?! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8IcciRHGvQ

----------


## Xei

I assume you're talking about the rubbish asserted in the last few seconds of that YouTube video, for which the narrator makes no citations, nor does he even bother justifying what on Earth he's talking about. The closest thing to an explanation I can find is that the puts up the value of the Planck constant in centimetres and phi, which happen to share the first three digits and which is, as I just explicitly explained, completely and utterly meaningless, as anybody with a very basic grasp of physics would understand.

----------


## Jussinlee

I hate referencing people. I read up on this "PHI, PLANCK LENGTH" comparison on other threads, which there are quite many I might add, and you are correct.
This topic still fascinates me, as far as Phi goes and unified field theory, and CONSCIOUSNESS! Thanks for consistent replies though. We all quote.. :wink2:

----------


## Scatterbrain

> What about e goddamnit? e is far cooler than pi.
> 
> And besides, pi is really only -2i times the log base e of -1. :V



Heh, I did think about e after I posted





> You just think this conicidence?! 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8IcciRHGvQ



Like Xei pointed out, the comparison at the end makes no sense. Planck length depicts, well, length. Phi on the other hand is a ratio, it has no dimensions.

Change the unit you're using for the planck length and you get a different number. Switch it to the US foot for example and you get Lp=53e-36 ft.

----------


## Jussinlee

Laymens Intro to SACRED GEOMETRY: "SACRED:THE SHAPE OF WHAT ALLOWS WAVES TO RE-CUR"GOOGLE DAN WINTER, AND AlSO YOUTUBE. THIS SHOULD CLARIFY THIS ENTIRE THREAD.  :smiley:  FEEDBACK? PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO REALLY RETAIN WHAT IS BEING PRESENTED.

----------


## ThePreserver

I don't mean to interrupt an argument, but back to the original purpose of the post, thank you Juroara!  I love sacred geometry ever since we began studying the golden ratio back in school and when I began to research it myself.  It's fascinating how much of nature can relate to the divine.  It IS in science, science doesn't go against religion at all, rather it complements it!

Just noticed another fun facticle... the number 42, which is the basis of "God" in many religions, Kaballah, Judaism, Buddhism, etc, is the "7 by 6" in the Fruit of Life, and the Sri Yantra is a single triangle surrounded by 42.

It's another number that was not only popularized by Hitchhiker's Guide, but also very related to religion.  Egyptians also had 42 principles in the book of the dead, as well as 42 gods and goddesses to represent them.

----------

