# Off-Topic Discussion > Artists' Corner > Art Design >  >  A Concept

## Dylan

Hey, I just whipped together a concept idea for a header... I kinda designed it with a slightly darker, more nighttime/dreamlike feel to it. I imagined the rest of the website's colours giving off a similar feel. (This is just the header though, and of course, is merely a concept.) I need to find a better font, something more cursive and dreamy. It definately needs better typography - it feels like it's missing something. But before I continue I'd like to see where you guys stand with this design so far at least.

Let's hear some opinions? Ideas?



Cheers,
Dylan

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## Aphius

Hm... It is interesting.

Something about it seems odd to me, not necessarily bad, but I'm not sure, I can't quite put my finger on it.  ::|:

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## Dylan

I know what you mean. It doesn't seem entirely right, something about it. It could be the fact that its too busy on the left side. Or, like I said, the fonts and typography are quite bad. It also seems like it's missing something, but I'm not sure what yet... The colours perhaps might not be coming out the way I'd like them to... I'm designing on an LCD screen which has been known to display things quite differently than other monitors (I usually have to look at websites on other monitors before I publish them, especially if they're for clients). 

Overall, I don't know, it feels sort of amateurish, and that disappoints me. To be honest though, there IS something about it that I do like, I'm not quite sure still (haha oh god, I'm not sure about ANYTHING)... but there's something there that I want to toy around with. Perhaps it's simply the colour blue...  :tongue2: 

Cheers,
Dylan

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## Placebo

I like it a lot actually... but I also get that feeling of 'not quite right'
I think its the shade of blue on the right, and a bit too much of it
As well as the typography that looks a bit wrong

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## Dylan

K, well I changed the fonts, and added a little something to balance it out a bit. It looks quite a bit better in my opinion.



Cheers,
Dylan

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## Lomebririon

Is... Is that Vivaldi?

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## Dylan

Is... Is that a bad thing?

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## Lomebririon

No, it's just that that's one of my favourite fonts.  :smiley: 

It's also the main font I use for my SoI logo.

Did you know you have to pay $32 if you want that font now? It took me a while to find another free copy after I lost my old one.

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## nina

Hey Dylan, I really like what you've done, I'm just not so sure it fits in with DV all that well? I think of DV as being alot more light and airy and etherial...not so dark and mysterious? I dunno. Those trees just remind me of creepiness.   :tongue2:

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## icedawg

i like it a lot too!  i find it too spooky and dark (not necessarily tone, but atmosphere) for us though...too many people already think of lucid dreaming as evil and sinister, etc., so we don't want to endorse that sort of view of it.  i do like the colours though so i don't want to immediately say it has to be brighter; perhaps those colours or similar could just be used differently, with different images, etc.  the silver bars i want (at the top and bottom) i think would help to introduce some lightness of course.  regardless, i'd say the design concepts behind that banner are pointed in the right direction.

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## Dylan

Hhm...?



The other one could be a halloween theme!  ::D:  Haha

Cheers,
Dylan

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## Aphius

Hm. It reminds me of sunday church, like a church website.  ::|:

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## Dylan

FACK. Ok I know what you mean... I was hoping nobody else would notice that!  :Sad: .

I hate how clouds give off that image of christianity... the font doesnt help either.

sadf;lsadkfjsa;l

*Opens up Photoshop*
 :tongue2:  The next one will be good, I swear.

Dylan

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## Dylan

k hows this? i like it

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## Aphius

::chuckle:: 

Yeah, thats great.  :tongue2: 

I whipped this up, what's everyone reckon?



I'm not sure about the colours of the fonts myself. I could improve on them.  :smiley:

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## Dylan

icedawg, do we need to stick to the blue colourscheme?

or can I fiddle with others? I had some other ideas.?

Cheers,
Dylan

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## Aphius

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *icedawg, do we need to stick to the blue colourscheme?
> 
> or can I fiddle with others? I had some other ideas.?
> 
> Cheers,
> Dylan*



I think for it all to look right that there should be consistency with the colour scheme. It'd probably look ok if the colour went well with blue but unless we change the theme of the whole site...

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## Dylan

oh yeah, no i get that. I was just wondering whether he was merely doing the banner, or the entire site... Colour schemes are quite easy to change with these PHP bulletin boards.

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## AcidBasick

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *
> 
> *



I love this one.

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## Dylan

To be honest, I like it as well. Perhaps something could be done to make it less "chuch-like". Aphius did have a good point. Any ideas?

Dylan

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## Rakkantekimusouka

Well, I'm clueless about headers, and layouts -- but maybe something could be done with this. At least if nothing else, how does it look as a plain old banner?

I realize that we probably couldn't have Sakura from Cardcaptor Sakura in there, ultimately, if we did decide to use it somehow, but...

Edit: I know the text is a little grainy -- I just read this thread and did up the pic real quick. I could fix it, if need be.

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## Dylan

Hhm. That image is really cartoony, and icedawg said he wanted something more professional looking. But it definately gave me an idea. I like the night sky, the stars.. and the moon.. that nice glow it has to it. Perhaps a mixture of that, and my other concept. Instead of a cloudy sky, it could be a cloudy night sky, and behind the title, emerging from some clouds, would be a nice bright moon and a star filled sky. It would definately be darker, but it'd probably give off a warmer, more peaceful feeling than that other "creepy" one I made. I'll make a concept of this idea in a few days. I'm imagining it looking pretty spiffy... You'll see  ::-P: .

Cheers,
Dylan

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## Dylan

Ooh perhaps to make it more dreamlike, a "northern lights" feel could be added to it as well.

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## Aphius

Hmm... Sounds mysterioulsy good.  :smiley:

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## Dylan

Well I actually wanted to see what it would look like and it took much less time than I expected... just like 15 minutes or so. Here's what I came up with. I wasn't certain what to do with the moon, so here are a couple ideas (first one without):




I think I might like the last one best... 

I'm also not sure about the bar at the bottom... perhaps a deeper blue or purplish colour.. I don't want to toy around with it now though.


Anyway, what do you guys think?

Cheers,
Dylan

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## Lomebririon

It reminds me of a wallpaper I did for this place once.  ::idea::  

The third one probably is the best one.

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## Aphius

Nice Recycling of those clouds though.

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## Dylan

"though" ?    "Nice Recyclicng of those clours *though*" ??

What's that supposed to mean. You don't like this one either? are you kidding me?  ::?:  .... I don't believe this. I think it's awesome.


And Lomebririon, let's see the wallpaper you made. Is it anywhere on this site? Link me.

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## Lomebririon

It's here.

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## Aphius

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *\"though\" ? * *\"Nice Recyclicng of those clours *though*\" ??
> 
> What's that supposed to mean. You don't like this one either? are you kidding me?  .... I don't believe this. I think it's awesome.*



I don't recall saying I never liked it, nor did I comment on its level of awesomeness. I simply commented on the good job you did using those clouds again.

You assumed a hell of a lot from that one word with no other words following it. No offence, but of course you think its awesome, you made it.  ::?: 





> _Originally posted by If after his comment Aphius had_
> * *



We'd all have been fine.  ::|:

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## Dylan

Well I guess I did assume, which maybe I shouldnt have, but I wasn't mad or anything, I was just confused. I still don't get what you meant by "though". Regardless, it's really not a big deal.

Anyway, thanks for the cloud comment.

What are your (and other people's) thoughts? More to do with specific things that could be improved or changed, and how it works for the site altogether. We should get some more discussion/ideas rolling, be it for this design or a new one altogether!

Dylan

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## AcidBasick

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *
> 
> *



This one is my favorite - but I still like the 'church' one. Serene cloud scenes are great.   :smiley:  

Thus far I think you have the lead in _awsome-ness_. Keep it up, man!

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## wasup

I DO like the look of the space one but... 

The problem with having a nice big one with a bunch of stuff in it is it won't match up with the website design.  That's why our current one is good, because it is simplistic and it isn't way too "full" if you know what I mean.  I like how it looks, but I don't think it would be the best for OUR banner.

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## Aphius

It is indeed a predicament. I _could_ see a more complcated banner working...

What I see to be a problem is that I and others run at 1280x1024 screen resolution, how would we fill the extra space of those who run at smaller or larger resolutions? Well maybe not smaller, looks like they'd fit ok, but on large ones. Like, the current one has a transparency on the logo and a background that can be repeated.

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## Dylan

Well, for the ones I've made so far, I designed them to be able to be extended to fit any browser size. Even at the smallest size, they should work (with the picture alone). But if you look at the far right ends of the pictures, with whatever space is there, a background would be made that could be repeated. I've tried it actually. It works quite well. 

Let me whip up an example. I'll post it in a few minutes, but I have the PSD file on another computer so i'll have to work with the image I have here. I'll create one for the clouds and space, but of course the principle could be used for any header.

Cheers,
Dylan

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## Dylan

Okay here's what I meant. They're big so I just linked them:

The sky one.
The star one.

To be honest, I really don't think I like them anymore. But the way the BG is done could be implimented in the next one. Hmmm... I gotta think of another header now! But first we should all bounce ideas off eachother... and I gotta ask again, is the entire site going to be redesigned as well? or is it ONLY the header?

Dylan

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## wasup

Oh, only the header.  Ice has already got the site design like he wants it.

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## icedawg

hey,

i like the 'church' one and night one as well, but i still haven't seen 'the one.'  i dunno what guidance to suggest...  

first off, i'm probably going to change the scheme somewhat because as i mentioned earlier i want to redesign the forum's index page completely (i mentioned i liked the folder look from http://www.planetsoulnetwork.com/forum/index.php and also the look of http://forums.xcheater.com/), and if that's done then generally changes will need to percolate throughout the board.  i like blues and greys, so i think we'll stick with those in some form...thus, any banners consisting of those colours will probably coalesce well.

as mentioned, the right or left of the banner can be extended to accommodate varying resolutions; also, however, sometimes the middle is extended between two images (generally fading images into a solid colour).  

apparently very plain banners are popular now:

(links removed)

holy shit...crazy how they all seem to jump on the bandwagon...i mean, ALL those banners are *very* plain (in case you don't feel like clicking on them all).  a while ago fading repeated horizontal lines and fading images were popular, as long as they were in a very simple design with just a few colours...that's what i'd prefer i think.

HA!  i found one that still retains the old style:  http://www.ml.com/  see the horizontal lines?  the fading images?  i don't like that particular banner, but it at least demonstrates the style that used to be very popular w/ corporate sites.

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## Dylan

Hhm... Ok I see what you mean. But a lot, if not all of those sites (didn't check them all out) are companies specializing in computer services or digital type things... those looks are, yes, popular... but popular among corporations, very plain... professional, but a different type of professional look than I think this site should have. Are you sure you want that? I agree that perhaps the designs I've done so far have been a bit "busy", but I mean, this is a website about lucid dreaming, it's not some corporation. I think it would be really effective if it had a clean / professional, YET artistic and dreamlike look. Do you know what I mean? Not that I really have any say or anything, but I'm just giving a really (really) big suggestion.

Tell me what you think... a professional look, yet still with a big artistic influence.

Cheers,
Dylan

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## nina

I agree with Dylan that those sites suggested such as microsoft and IBM, etc. are just a plain color stripe, it seems too boring and unfeeling. I think the banner should look professional and not too busy, but I agree that this is a lucid dreaming forum and it would be nice if the banner had a lighter or airy etherial nature to it. Those other site designs bore me to death. But I also think that the suggested ones so far with the stars/clouds/etc. are a bit too busy...and still too dark. We just need to find something in between in guess?

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## icedawg

i didn't suggest those sites because i liked the design; as i stated, i prefer the older style (horizontal lines, fading images).  i merely included those because i was just amazed how they all follow trends so closely.  regardless of the fact that those are business sites they do set the tone for "in" site design, and they obv. do lots of research to determine what really is appealing to people and what isn't.

i'd like this place to have a professional look; as stated on the main page i don't want it to really look "dreamy."  having said that, though, i'm imagining we're going to have to reach a hybrid between the two.

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## AcidBasick

> i'd like this place to have a professional look; as stated on the main page i don't want it to really look \"dreamy.\" having said that, though, i'm imagining we're going to have to reach a hybrid between the two.[/b]



What if everything on the page was more compact. I think the difference between these forums and those sites you linked to is more of the layout and size then the title bar alone.

How about a change to something like this?

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by AcidBasick_
> *What if everything on the page was more compact. I think the difference between these forums and those sites you linked to is more of the layout and size then the title bar alone.*



i've been thinking about that and i think we'll try that; as it is, some of the things stretch out too much on my resolution, so perhaps imposing a set width might work.  i'm going to immediately guess that 800 pixels is an industry standard size, but later when i'm not so lazy i'll go check it out.  the only problem here is the main site has to be flush against the left (otherwise the menu on the left just doesn't look right to me) but i think the forum should be centered...thus inconsistency.

anyway, i think i'll grab one of the new banners thus far (perhaps the most recent one, although i think it's too dark) for testing, throw a grey bar above it and add the login text fields, then design the grey buttons i want below it, and then do up a mock forum.  perhaps that'll make it a little easier for people to see what i want.


on another note the site's patterened grey background is SO going to have to go; i'm not sure what to replace it with, but it's definitely gone. 

also, to those of you who have banner ideas that you think contravene what i've suggested please go ahead anyway if you're interested...perhaps someone can prove me wrong or we can combine some ideas together, etc. 

finally, in the image that AcidBasick posted depicting the reduced width the top bar above the forum list comes out a darker blue, and i think that looks pretty good.  i wanted to change those anyway, so perhaps with the mock forum i can start experimenting with that.  the earliest any of this is going to happen though is next week.


'k bye

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## Lomebririon

I really want to make you a banner like you want!

I'm so goddamn busy! A guy with nothing but free time should NOT be this busy! What the hell is this!?!

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## wasup

Tried the "minimalistic" approach.  I think it is really boring but I just wanted to see if that is close to what you wanted...
There are two... one

and

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## Lomebririon

Wow! That IS boring.

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## wasup

> _Originally posted by Lomebririon_
> *
> 
> Wow! That IS boring.*



Yeah I know,  :tongue2:  
But it IS moderately "professional" I guess...

Oh and I found out what your signature is. 

A test would be testicle.

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## nightowl

...i like where this is going  :smiley:

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## Dylan

:tongue2: ... but here.  I don't like this one at all, but I like the eye that's in it, maybe you guys could think of something to do with it.



[EDIT: Or maybe a closed eye would be better?]

Dylan

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by wasup_
> *Tried the \"minimalistic\" approach. *I think it is really boring but I just wanted to see if that is close to what you wanted...
> There are two... one*



hey,

actually i think that does look pretty good, but as i said that's popular now but not what i'm looking for (i prefer the older style).  perhaps i'll remove all the links to those corporate sites because maybe that's confusing people.


p.s. no eyes.   :smiley:

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## Kaniaz

Aww, I kinda liked the eye one.

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## nightowl

..i didn't like the eye either..it was kinda ugly..like from an old person...

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## Kaniaz

kinda odd coming from a guy who has an eye for a signature.

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## Dylan

I think he was referring how that eye in particular looked old. I can sort of see what he means, like the skin around the eye... its really not though. It's a young woman's eye.

Dylan

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## nightowl

> _Originally posted by Kaniaz_
> *kinda odd coming from a guy who has an eye for a signature.*



yea, but i consider my the eye in my sig to be more "pretty"  :tongue2:

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## icedawg

http://www.digital-delusion.com/styles_dem.../index.php?s=17

i like how that curved line protrudes into the bar above the banner; i think something like that could work for us.  as i've said i wanted a grey bar at the top, and the grey buttons on the bottom (and, btw, the buttons in this example are probably close to the ones i'm going to make).  anyway, our logo could be in/on top of the curved line on the left, and an image could be on the right, and obv. the colours and whatnot would be different, and OH MAN, maybe that would kick ass?

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## icedawg

i've stolen (read:  borrowed) some of planetsoul's template so that i can start working on the new design; ours will definitely come out looking a lot different, but i always need a foundation in which to start.

anyway, i've just played around a little bit so far, and i drew this up to give everyone an idea of what i'm aiming for:  
.  

right now the two things i'm working on are the background and the folder-top colour.  i'm thinking perhaps i'll switch to getting a temporary banner up there (with the buttons), which might help further set the mood and make it easier to determine what works and what doesn't.  basically i'm trying to take planetsoul's theme and make it brighter because i think it's too dark for us.  anyway, if anyone else wants to do a print screen, throw it into your graphic editor and play around with it to see if you can come up with something that works, then either grab it off of planetsoul's site or use www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum.


peace out g

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## icedawg

www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=1
www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=2
www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=3

or simply click on the banners after they appear to cycle through them.

i played a little more around with the new colours as well, but it's tricky with those folder colours not being right yet.  i'm also not sure if the greys i've done (the horizontal lines background, and the plain grey on the sides of the forum's layout) are too dark.


oh...and i think the grey folder here with the lighter blue bar looks, well, i guess the best so far, but it's not right yet:



maybe it would look better if the dark lines separating the cells were white, but i don't feel like playing w/ it anymore tonight.   :smiley:

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## Dylan

To be honest, I'm actually starting to dislike those two ones I made... quite a bit - and even more so when they're used in that design. They plain don't fit in my opinion. At the same time, although that first one (the original image) fits with the design well, it seems too "techy". With that new design in mind I might start tossing some new ideas around, but I am coming into "*  EXAM TIME * ", so I won't be able to throw out concepts quite as quickly as I was able to before.

Also, I noticed in the top left corner of the header "tab" images, it seems like they were meant for a different background. Maybe they should be edited to match the current one. You probably realized that but I wanted to point it out just in case.  :tongue2: 

Take it easy,
Dylan

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *Also, I noticed in the top left corner of the header \"tab\" images, it seems like they were meant for a different background. Maybe they should be edited to match the current one. You probably realized that but I wanted to point it out just in case.*



yah, i haven't touched those because the colour for the folder tabs hasn't been decided yet, so i've been leaving them at their original colour.  keep in mind that nothing has been decided yet, except for basically the grey bar at the top, the grey buttons, and that there will be folder tabs.  colours and tones are still completely up in the air, and i'm hoping some people will have some good suggestions.   ::mrgreen::   esp. keep in mind that the final colours will be brighter than what's up there right now.


also, if someone else has a banner they'd like me to try, just let me know...it's very easy now for me to throw it up there w/ the others.

come on people, let's get some ideas rolling here and make this place look awesome!  the template i've started with isn't by far a final product...it's just something to work with.

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## Demerzel

hey, i mentioned it elsewhere, but i kinda made a blue-ish sorta template, if you want i can upload it and let you see it.

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## icedawg

alright peeps, i did a bunch of changes to the colours and whatnot; i think it looks much better now--and it's definitely closer to what i want--but i'm not convinced we're there yet.  i really like it, but then i always do until i see something better or someone makes a suggestion.  anyway, there's still some work to be done to make sure the fonts are readable, and i'm experimenting with colours and whatnot, and the footer has not been changed yet, and i haven't worked on any pages other than the index page.  please check it out and give some comments!  if no one says anything, this could very well become our new theme and maybe everyone will hate it.   ::mrgreen::   i'm wondering if it still needs to be lighter...regardless, it's much lighter than what i had before.

www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=1
www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=2
www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=3


also, again please feel free to experiment with it and come up w/ different colour tones, etc.




oh, and techboy:  you're welcome to show us your theme, but i'm leaning more towards a grey/silver theme accented w/ blue (like what i've done so far).

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## Demerzel

> _Originally posted by icedawg_
> *alright peeps, i did a bunch of changes to the colours and whatnot; i think it looks much better now--and it's definitely closer to what i want--but i'm not convinced we're there yet.  i really like it, but then i always do until i see something better or someone makes a suggestion.  anyway, there's still some work to be done to make sure the fonts are readable, and i'm experimenting with colours and whatnot, and the footer has not been changed yet, and i haven't worked on any pages other than the index page.  please check it out and give some comments!  if no one says anything, this could very well become our new theme and maybe everyone will hate it.    i'm wondering if it still needs to be lighter...regardless, it's much lighter than what i had before.
> 
> www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=1
> www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=2
> www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php?banner=3
> 
> 
> also, again please feel free to experiment with it and come up w/ different colour tones, etc.
> ...




The third one looks really good.

Just a note, when you mouse over the column with the forum name, it changes colour to something which makes it unreadable...and it doesn't change back.

IGNORE THIS: NOT WORKING. k.
anyway, the thing i did can be found at
http://dreamviews.com/artists/Techboy/theme/
feel free to tweak it if you wish. I deliberately went with the "simple" approach. All the colours and stuff are in the CSS.
I'm about to upload index2.html with the 3rd logo, cause i really like it.

edit: http://dreamviews.com/artists/Techboy/them...eme/index2.html
ignore the repeated header, i just can't be bothered fixing it. oh, and i can't  :tongue2:  need to get it black instead.

oh, and icedawg, take note that the main index is a .php file  ::wink::  nothing...erm, bad...in it (i simply couldn't be bothered renaming it), but there could be, couldn't there.

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## nina

Personally I prefer the current layout we have as opposed to those new ones.   ::?:  I didn't think the layout needed changing at all. I really like it. I thought only the top banner was going.  :Sad:

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## Dylan

To be honest icedawg, I've gotta agree with lucidnina... quite strongly. Aside from a few possible colour changes and other minor touch ups, the forum layout is quite nice as it is. The look of the new designs that you're fiddling with now is most often seen on gaming forums and the likes. I really don't think it gives off the right atmosphere for a lucid dreaming forum. I remember what you said before, about how you didn't want the design to be too dark and sinister looking... now though, in my opinion, it seems even _less_ inviting (in a different sort of way, but less inviting nonetheless), more cold and impersonal... not so welcoming... i guess, that "generic" metalic look. And definately lacking quite a bit of colour, the whole thing's silver despite a few blue bars.

Just my opinion  ::?: ,
Dylan

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## icedawg

I really like folder tabs and whatnot though, and I'm also rather excited about a new theme for the forum.  so...If you don't like the new design I'm working on, start making suggestions on what can be improved.   ::mrgreen::

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## nina

Ok, well I don't want to insult anyone and I admire the amount of work that has been put into this, but this is just coming from the opinion of a real web designer so I hope you might take what I have to say as being worth something. These are the first impressions I get when I go through the new forum layout that you have suggested. Sorry it's kind of scattered, but here are all the things I came across that I thought could use fixing/tweaking.

the test forum thing turns a weird turquoise color when you roll over it and it doesnt turn back when you roll off it...personally...I like the current rollover states that we have at DV now they are alot more subtle.

the light grays, darker grays, and whites make the text somewhat difficult to read than on the site as it is now, also the text seems a bit small to me, like when it lists users online, mods, DGs, etc.

those buttons on the top "home, FAQ, Search, etc." look way too tall, they should be shortened alot

everything is spaced a bit too far apart as the folder tab things go

when i click on the thread I get all these different colors, i see dark turquoise gradients mixed with navy gradients and I don't think turquoise and navy mix together well at all (and using so many different gradients is just basic bad design) , also seems way too dark in comparison to the light gray background, maybe keep them the same as the nice lighter blues you have on the first page

also the white text is way too hard to read on this light gray background, esp. in the posts made within the thread, and those dark dividers between the posts seem too much contrast and don't really fit, maybe make them the same light blue as the first page? 

also the secondary pages look completely different from the first page with the nice blues on it (I really liked the first page until I rolled over the thread)...maybe you should reconsider those darker colors and stick with the lighter blues 

and when I click on a user there are all these gradients of different colors that are so dark and contrast too much, and the light gray text is too hard to read on the light gray background, and also the gray text inside the gradient headers aren't so easy on the eyes either

All in all I love the format we have at DV now, but if you do change it...please take into consideration some of the suggestions I've made. It will make it alot more user friendly and alot easier on the eyes. Let me know if anything I've made isn't clear and I can take screen shots or something as examples. Hopefully this made sense, I'm really tired.

Also, if I had to chose, I guess I'd pick the header from banner 3

Thanks!    ::D:

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## icedawg

i'm sorry, apparently i haven't been very clear:

1.  i've only worked on the index page; no changes have been made specifically on the other pages so they should be ignored.  i've posted the URLs simply because i'd like some opinions on what has already been done before i do more throughout the template.  i'm not planning big changes throughout the rest of the theme with respect to what we have now (save for introducing consistency of course) so that's not something that really needs to be worried about; i'm mainly interested in giving us a new index page.

2.  i haven't finished the index page but again just wanted comments thus far; anything that doesn't fit in (i.e. the turquoise colours) are from the original template and have not yet been modified...thus the footer needs to be changed, the lopin fields, and the cell-hilighting.

3.  as i stated, i'm aware the text colours need to be more readable but i didn't want to spend a lot of time on them yet in case this design gets completely scrapped.


personally i think this design has a lot of potential, and also that if we had the right banner up there it would shed a more favourable light upon it.  i think perhaps i need to lighten the colours up some more, but otherwise i think it looks very welcoming and much more appealing than our current forum index page.  remember, the right banner will aid in making it feel more "welcoming."

oh...and i think i could look into making the buttons shorter.

----------


## icedawg

alright, i've made a bunch more changes:

as lucidnina suggested:

- removed spaces between folders
- fixed font colours somewhat (but still experimenting with)
- cell hilightling adjusted
- two additional test banners with smaller buttons (although i'm not sure on the style i want yet...i just quickly did this)


i also made everything lighter once again (it really is significantly lighter, and uses many of the same grey tones in the current forum's design), and i adjusted a few more little things here and there.  personally, i think it looks great.  i'm kind of changing my mind on the banner and wondering if we can get something really neat up there..  i think that, along with the lighter colours, will make the forum more "welcoming."  i don't know exactly what would look good up there...like maybe even some characters or whatnot?  i really don't know.  i'm open to suggestions though.  regardless, the 'forex currency' one just isn't doing it for me and i really don't think it's doing justice to the theme.

so anyway, please check out the index page (just the index page) and everyone let me know what you think.  not many are replying, and i'm closer and closer to making this our new theme, so if you don't like it or want somethign changed, now's the time to say something.   ::wink:: 

http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/in...ex.php?banner=4
http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/in...ex.php?banner=5
http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/in...ex.php?banner=1
http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/in...ex.php?banner=2
http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/in...ex.php?banner=3

also, here is what the folders would look like with those little icons...i think the blue might need to be adjusted to match the design, but again i think they'll help make the forum feel "warmer":  



finally, just some notes:

----------


## Lomebririon

Sorry I haven't been tossing in my input, been preoccupied outside DV for a few days. Don't make any banner related descisions yet! Not until i've had a stab at it at least.

I want to try to make you a cool banner like that smooth looking one, and a footer if I could.

So, which one of those did you want to make the new theme?

----------


## Dylan

I have to admit, it's starting to come along... maybe it's just grown on me?  :tongue2:  I don't remember what you changed, but it looks better than it did before. Maybe instead of shortening the buttons.... you could just get rid of them altogether. See how it looks with just the silver bar (like on the left side), and just extend it all the way. The buttons could just be text, but aligned to the right. To be honest I dont think the font colours aren't that bad, except for the ones you cant read obviously, and the ones at the bottom.

Also, What if you were to put a thin line on either side of the forum... since it's centered, it might make it fit in there a little nicer. If black is too dark, try a darker gray, like in the cell... Actually maybe even a little shadow.

Here's what I mean:


Doesn't seem right yet, but definately improving... getting there.

I'll probably have more suggestions later, but I'm heading to bed now. English final tomorrow.  ::|: 
Dylan

----------


## nina

It's definitely coming along Ice. I'm just still having issues with those buttons on the top. I noticed that you shortened them, but they still don't really look right or fit with the design. They almost look like post-its stuck on this nice design.  But I do think they should stand out rather than be totally aligned with the bar as in Dylan's version. Maybe you can keep them larger but add that nice cut off corner curved shape that the folders have...so it integrates more into the site. Maybe just do this to the first button...I dunno, give it a try?

Edit: Actually, now that I look at it again I do sort of prefer that they are lined up...like in Dylan's verson...otherwise they might not fit with the rest of the site design. Maybe you can make them stand out in another way.

----------


## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *I have to admit, it's starting to come along... maybe it's just grown on me?  I don't remember what you changed, but it looks better than it did before.*



if anyone's really interested, this essentially marks the gradual evolution:






it seems to me it's gotten better and better as it's gotten brighter, and i'm wondering if it's still not quite bright enough?  just a note that everyone should keep in mind that once we \"moved in\" (i.e. applied the theme to this board, so that we had 23423 forums on the main page) it would probably feel a lot more like \"home.\"





> _Originally posted by lucidnina+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lucidnina)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				It's definitely coming along Ice. I'm just still having issues with those buttons on the top. I noticed that you shortened them, but they still don't really look right or fit with the design. They almost look like post-its stuck on this nice design. But I do think they should stand out rather than be totally aligned with the bar as in Dylan's version. Maybe you can keep them larger but add that nice cut off corner curved shape that the folders have...so it integrates more into the site. Maybe just do this to the first button...I dunno, give it a try? 
> 
> Edit: Actually, now that I look at it again I do sort of prefer that they are lined up...like in Dylan's verson...otherwise they might not fit with the rest of the site design. Maybe you can make them stand out in another way.[/b]
> ...



a footer too?  woo, that sounds awesome.  i was going to play around there (i.e.:  take someone else's idea and change the colours, which is what i do best  ::mrgreen::  ) but i haven't found what i want yet.

anyway, since it'll be easy to do, i've decided we're going to pick one default banner (that everyone will see when not logged in) but allow users to select a different banner through their profile.  i know i said i'd do something like this a long time ago, but the code is pretty well there now because i've added other stuff to the profiles since then, so it won't be hard to do.  this way, since it's doubtless that everyone will have different opinions, hopefully everyone can be happy.  i'll have to impose a limit on banner dimentions though (so that it will fit with theme).  i think--and i know the new theme is currently 800 pixels wide--everything should be 780 or so pixels wide (so that those with 800*600 resolutions can have the vertical scroll bar appear without causing its appearance to force the horizontal scroll bar to appear....know what i mean?   ::wink::  )  oh...i think we'll have to come to an agreement on the button bar though, so that can at least remain consistent and make this a little easier.


anyway, thanks for all the input.   :smiley:

----------


## Demerzel

Hey, that looks better. I still like the third one.

----------


## icedawg

i didn't really have much time to do anything with it today because of other stuff, but i added a border around it like Dylan suggested, and also i made the forum name links blue, which is a small change but i think it made it look much better.   ::mrgreen:: 

on a side note, i discovered the blue forum names would look better when i added the folder format to our current theme.  i wanted to make the off-topic and teams forums more distinguishable because i don't think everyone has found them yet, so i thought i might as well introduce part of the new theme to our current one.

----------


## Demerzel

must have been complicated. to be honest i'm not too sure i like it being mixed in with our current theme. but hey, whatever.

----------


## nerve

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *
> *



I like this one.

----------


## nightowl

i liked the first one and the third one in no particaular order ice.

----------


## Dylan

I've lightened the board once again as well as altered the blues. The top folders are too light, but I didn't want to select them in photoshop - the text in there should be black or a dark grey as well. And I whipped up a simple header that followed the same blue colour as well.



Cheers,
Dylan

----------


## icedawg

wow, actually, i know you said you just whipped up the banner, and also that it doesn't coincide with what i've said i'm looking for, but i think it's kinda hard not to like that banner.  i definitely like it more than any i've seen thus far, and i think it works really well with that theme.  great job, really.   ::mrgreen::   oh, and with the logo in the centre like that, it (to me anyway) makes the completely straight button-menu thing look even better.

as for the lightness, i think it depends on one's monitor.  i've got a really nice & new LCD on my main computer and the last version of the design that i did is nice and bright; i was using an older LCD yesterday and it looked too dark.  so i really don't know...  you might be totally right and maybe we need it that bright, but it's almost glaring on my monitor right now...  also, the white boundaries separating the folders from the background are essentially lost.  i think we need some more comments.   :smiley: 

oh, the shadow thing on the sides is definitely nice, but it's not going to work:  that would cause a horizontal scrollbar to appear to users w/ 800*600 resolutions; i want to decrease the size of the design to like 780 or so pixels wide to prevent that.


EDIT:  hrm...after going back and looking at my last attempt, it now looks too dark!  but i still think this one is a bit too bright...maybe we need to find a middle-ground?

----------


## Dylan

Haha oh god... LCD MONITORS  ::|: . I have one of those at my other house... and as much as I love it, it's horrible to design on. The colours look so vibrant and everythign looks great on them, but as soon as you switch to any other monitor it looks dull and desaturated.  :Sad:  I always have to retouch any design I make on another computer.

Anyway though, the last design you made, before mine, looked good anyway. You're right, it's probably best to go with a design that looks good on both monitors as opposed to one that's walking the fine line. It's still good nonetheless... I would suggest, though, for you to slightly lower the saturation of the blue bars - just a touch.

Nice to see you like the banner... it is fairly simple I guess, and pleasant. It would need a lot of touching up though, if you were actually considering using it.

Cheers,
Dylan

----------


## icedawg

i think the banner looks great, really.  

anyway, the more i see your version of the theme, the more i like it.  still i think it's a little too bright though.  maybe in a day or two or whatever i'll try and further lighten up the last one i did.  on a side note, the dark blue in the banner works really well with your light theme, and i think some of that would be lost in the darkness of the current version.


btw, you're probably right with the LCDs.  i really liked the blues that we used to have in this current theme, but no one else did...then i discovered what they looked like on other monitors, and understood where people were coming from.  CRTs suck.   :smiley:

----------


## Dylan

I actually had another idea. Since you want to make it customizable for people, why don't you make the COLOURS customizable... the same general theme can apply, just the overall colours will change. I don't know how hard it is for you to do this, but it doesn't seem like it would be hard if you're able to switch banners anyway. Hue can easily be changed in any graphic.

Here are some examples:

  
  
  
  

If people get bored of one colour... BAM, new colour. I think this would be awesome!  ::-P: 

Cheers,
Dylan

----------


## Umbrasquall

I really like the third night sky one. 

Wow there's a lot going on in the forums now I can't keep up! =P

----------


## Tsen

I likses the bright green one.  'Cuz anything that's green is cool.  But I also like the old DV theme...Meh.  Just shows why color options are a good idea.

----------


## Lomebririon

What do you think of this banner I made?



I made it along the lines of the forex currency banner, If you like it and want me to change anything, let me know.

----------


## Seeker

They all look good to me, but as far as colors go, I am kind of fond of blue for some reason.  I guess it is because everything gets blue in the twilight before bed?

Customizable colors are a neat idea though, are they difficult to do and maintain?

----------


## Dylan

Ah, see? Already we have people taking preference to different colours! I hope you think it's a good idea as well. It shouldn't be too hard to do either... I don't think so at least.

Also, take a look at the shadows again.  :tongue2:  I love the way it makes the page pop out. Perhaps if we can't come to an agreement, "shadows"/"no shadows" could be added to the options which people can set in their profiles? hahaha  ::-P:

----------


## nina

I'm liking the new layout. But I've yet to see a banner that's really "the one". Keep trying guys. Sorry I haven't come up with anything, finals week is a BITCH and I've been designing shit out my ass and I'm soooo sick of it. But I may try something when I get the time.

----------


## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Dylan+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dylan)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				I actually had another idea. Since you want to make it customizable for people, why don't you make the COLOURS customizable... the same general theme can apply, just the overall colours will change. I don't know how hard it is for you to do this, but it doesn't seem like it would be hard if you're able to switch banners anyway. Hue can easily be changed in any graphic.
> 
> Here are some examples:[/b]
> ...



i agree for sure, but from a design point of view i don't think it's very feasible.  if you come up with a way of doing it though, lemme know.


alright, so here's today's changes:

[list][*] made both cell colours a little lighter, but not as light as the version Dylan displayed[*] made horizontal lined background a little lighter, but again not as light[*] made darker font colour a little lighter[*] increased some font sizes[*] put up the latest banner by dylan[*] made silver bars above and below his banner a little lighter (note:  didn't use his bars because of quality loss due to image format; the original ones I lightened aren't as light as his)
[list]

i left the plain background colour alone because i think it works better when it's dark.  i also didn't change the silver folder tabs to a lighter version because when i lighten them, the whole thing gets lighter; the folders in Dylan's version stay pretty well the same dark tone in the middle but end in a lighter colour, which i think looks pretty nice but his ended at pure white and i thought that was a little too light.  also, i didn't change the blue bars because i'm not so sure yet that they need to be changed...?  i looked at changing them anyway for testing, but again they're a little fuzzy in Dylan's due to image format and I probably wouldn't be able to match that colour properly.

anyway, here's a quick image to illustrate my changes--on the left is the one i did today; on the right is the one i did previously:




here is the one i did today on the left, followed by the one Dylan did on the right.




dylan:  i'd like to increase the brightness of the folders in the style in which you have (i.e. with the dark part remaining essentially as dark), but i don't want to go quite as light as you.  any chance you can help me out with that?   ::mrgreen::   i think your silver bars above and below the banner would look nicer too, but again i don't want to go quite as light as you did.



comments?  suggestions?


thanks.


EDIT:  here's the URL of the current one:  http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum

----------


## icedawg

> _Originally posted by lucidnina_
> *I'm liking the new layout.*



awesome.   ::mrgreen:: 





> But I've yet to see a banner that's really \"the one\". [/b]



hrm.  i really do like that last one by Dylan.  the dark blue works really well with the light theme i think, and the full image looks great as well.  plus, having the logo in the middle seems to work really nicely and isn't something you see very often.  we could experiment with different images, different fonts, maybe throwing in some pizzaz or whatnot, but i really do like it.

----------


## Demerzel

That looks much better than what it did previously.

----------


## icedawg

hrm.

does anyone else think the new theme looks a little plain?  i don't think it'll be as bad once it's populated with all our forums and whatnot, but still...does anyone have any ideas of what else we could throw in there?  should we introduce some more blue someplace or something?


thanks a lot for all the comments and help thus far!

----------


## Dylan

Just an idea. Not sure if I like it, but don't see any harm in posting it... might spark an idea for someone else.



And by the way, I don't see how adding the shadows would be hard. In fact they'd be tremendously easy, if you wanted you could give me the template and I'd add them in.

Dylan

----------


## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *Just an idea. Not sure if I like it, but don't see any harm in posting it... might spark an idea for someone else.*



i like it!  and the more i see it, the more i like it...  it adds a little more pizzaz to the theme, and the watermark extending past the banner's boundary is totally do-able.





> And by the way, I don't see how adding the shadows would be hard. In fact they'd be tremendously easy, if you wanted you could give me the template and I'd add them in.[/b]



well as i said there were complications regarding 800*600 resolutions and preventing a horizontal scrollbar from appearing, but OH BABY, i found a way!  let's all take a moment to say, 'GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Santa 'dawg!'   hrm.  holy crap, was that ever lame.  alright, setting aside that momentary falter, this is what i discovered:

html doesn't allow one to alter the state in which a background image is displayed, but css does; i was able to get it to center the background image so that the repeat would work properly.  next, i created an image (of height 1) with a shadow to the left, and a shadow to the right, and 776 pixels of emptiness in between.  i tried that out but the repeating screwed up on larger resolutions because it was stacking them on the same line; i then added emptiness to the left and right of the shadow image, thus creating an image of height 1 and width 1200....and it works!  HAH!  take that those of you who said it couldn't be done!  and you know who you are!  in your FACES.  plus, i tested it and a horizontal scroll bar is not added when the background image exceeds the window size, which is exactly what we need.  anyway, this won't work if someone has a crazy-big resolution, but i suppose i could make the file bigger (like 1600 width or whatever), but for 99.9% of the people out there it should work quite nicely.

check it out:  http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum

i redid the shadow because i had it end in a darker colour (so i thought i'd have it start in a darker colour too) but i couldn't get it to turn out as nicely as yours did.  hopefully we can get a better one done, but that can't really happen until we decide on the final colours.  oh...i had to adjust the banner to 776 pixels (which, btw, should be the new standard for anyone else submitting a banner).

anyway, it'd be great if we could get some more comments on the exact colours of things and whatnot but i'm having a helluva time getting people to come in here to look, including our moderators.   :Sad:   if we could get the final colours hammered down it would allow me to get a final version done and really get the ball rolling, but i'm still not even sure on the brightness.

----------


## nina

LMFAO!! Dear lord I've been sitting here for like the past 5 minutes trying to figure out who the hell Santa'dawg is since he posted here last...but no...it's Icedawg...I just realized you changed your name....fuck I'm slow.

Ok, Dylan...I really like that.  :wink2:  As I've said before, you rock.

----------


## Dylan

Cool Icedawg. It's really turning out. Good job with the shadow problem! It was apparently bigger than I'd though, but nice job. I also like the dividers you made for the silver bar below the header. I must say, it truly is becoming a "kickass forum"! To be honest I really like the colours. And also, do you not think you're going to have the colour changing option? I really think it would be awesome... I have an idea of how to program it. I'm really rusty with PHP so I'd probably just be able to throw the concept at you... but it's similar to what you did with the banner swapping there, the colour images would be variables as well. I can help you if you'd like by making the new images. You're working so hard there, maybe it could take a little load off your back  :tongue2:  as small as it would be.

Also, what did you mean by "hopefully we can get a better one done"? Better what done?

And thanks Nina  :smiley: 

Cheers,
Dylan

[Edit: I just realized a problem that might arise... you know how people sometimes post pictures on here that are bigger than the width of the page and cause a scrollbar? Sure that's annoying, but it's not a huge problem for this forum... With a definite header width it WOULD be though. If someone posted a picture any bigger than 600 pixels (or however thick the banner is) then the table will pop out further than it and it would look like utter crap........ how do you think this problem could be solved?]

----------


## Lomebririon

> _Originally posted by Santa 'dawg_
> *it's not quite doing it for me; i think i've just been turned off of the whole forex currency one now! Regardless, thanks a lot for making one.*



Dammit!   ::?:  I was hoping it'd rock.

What kind of thing are you looking for now? Some examples would be good.

I fear that i'm just sitting here, all "back of the bus".

----------


## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Lomebririon+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lomebririon)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				<!--QuoteBegin-Santa 'dawg
> 			
> 		
> ...



haha.  sorry...as i've said, i'm not really good at saying what i'd like.   ::wink::   i kind of just know when i see it, which doesn't really help people in the design process.  i really like the latest one dylan did up though.  it's simple; it matches and accentuates the design very well; it's professional looking but not boring; it's somewhat surreal (with the watermark) and i think that helps fit in the aura with a lucid dreaming site, but it's not too dreamy (i.e. upon visiting the site w/o knowing it's contents the visitor doesn't immediately think, \"Ah, another dreams site\"; but upon identifying the site's content, I think the user can relate the banner to the site); and finally i'd say it's a rather unique design (with the logo in the middle).  i'm a little concerned about file size, esp. considering adding the watermark (i.e. now the image will be much bigger and i can't simply use very small repeating gifs to do the grey bars and part of the background) but i'm hoping it might work out.

if you have spare time, have the motivation, and want to try some other ideas then please go ahead.  as i said i think we'll include a bunch of banners and let users select their own.  i just don't know what guidance to give you.





> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *To be honest I really like the colours.*



exactly which ones?  the ones that are in the lighter version, or the really light ones in the example you gave?  i didn't want to go quite that light as i said because of glare, but also the cells in yours were pure white (#FFFFFF) which doesn't allow me to go any brighter to do the cell highlighting.   ::mrgreen::   i haven't exactly signed off on the current colour brightness i'm using, but i'm not getting much input from people.  i think i'll just make a few more changes and then post the URL in the Community Team and the Dream Guide forum and try and get some input from those members.

but anyway i'm really pleased about how it's turning out as well...i think the shadows went a long way to help it.  i'm still wondering if it's too plain in the middle though...i don't know what else we could do to liven it up?





> And also, do you not think you're going to have the colour changing option? I really think it would be awesome... I have an idea of how to program it.[/b]



it sounds like you're suggesting manually doing all the colour variations; i'm wondering if there's a method in one of PHP's image packages that would allow hue adjustment of an image?  then we could just have PHP change the colours of the images and not have to worry about creating individual ones.  





> Also, what did you mean by \"hopefully we can get a better one done\"? Better what done?[/b]



the shadows.   ::mrgreen::   i'm using paint shop pro, and i find it very frustrating to make things look right.  of course, i also don't know what i'm doing.  i'm still thinking maybe the silver bars above & below the banner, and the file folder bars could be a little lighter like yours (but not quite as bright), but when i did that i lost the darkness in the middle; somehow yours seemed to stay about as dark in the middle but end in a lighter colour.

oh, and yes little buggers who post images exceeding the page's boundaries will compromise the site's design.  i think we'll just have to beat silly anyone who does that.

----------


## Dylan

> To be honest I really like the colours.
> 			
> 		
> 
> 
> exactly which ones?  the ones that are in the lighter version, or the really light ones in the example you gave?  i didn't want to go quite that light as i said because of glare, but also the cells in yours were pure white (#FFFFFF) which doesn't allow me to go any brighter to do the cell highlighting.    i haven't exactly signed off on the current colour brightness i'm using, but i'm not getting much input from people.  i think i'll just make a few more changes and then post the URL in the Community Team and the Dream Guide forum and try and get some input from those members.



Well I meant the COLOURS  :tongue2:  like the actual blues. I liked the blues in mine actually, yours aren't bad, they seem a bit too saturated. you know. I agree though, the whites are too light in mine, yours are nice.


[quote]



> oh, and yes little buggers who post images exceeding the page's boundaries will compromise the site's design.  i think we'll just have to beat silly anyone who does that.



Haha, can't these boards set a size limit? I remembered that on another PHP forum.

Dylan

----------


## Lomebririon

> _Originally posted by Santa 'dawg_
> *haha. sorry...as i've said, i'm not really good at saying what i'd like.*



Darn it! I hate it when you say that. It's always a prophecy of ambiguous roads to come.  :Sad:  

Alrighty, i'll try again. Let's see what happens in the next episode.  :tongue2:

----------


## icedawg

just a note that i'm receiving some comments now about the themes, and brightness has been an issue.  i'll play around with the horizontal lined background and see if i can make it just a little darker, without darkening anything else; maybe that will work well?

i'll also play with the blues and see what happens.

----------


## icedawg

any chance anybody in here is good at flash?

CHECK THIS SHIT OUT:

we could like animate the banner (the one with the mountains and the tree branch watermark):  we could have lightning in the background occurring at different places in the image, and then have the leaves and branches moving like they were being blown by the wind!  we could also perhaps add a little effect to the logo, and have it look like it's kind of blowing or something.  well?  how's that sound?  i'll tell ya how it sounds:  damn good!  oh yah baby!


oh man, that would rule so much.

----------


## Lukeman

That would look so awesome!!!!!

For the Text on it, you could make a simple Water Touch, so it would be wavy, if thats what you mean by blowing maybe...?


lol

well theres my 2 cents  :tongue2: 

 ::mrgreen::

----------


## nina

> _Originally posted by Santa 'dawg_
> *any chance anybody in here is good at flash?
> 
> CHECK THIS SHIT OUT:
> 
> we could like animate the banner (the one with the mountains and the tree branch watermark): *we could have lightning in the background occurring at different places in the image, and then have the leaves and branches moving like they were being blown by the wind! *we could also perhaps add a little effect to the logo, and have it look like it's kind of blowing or something. *well? *how's that sound? *i'll tell ya how it sounds: *damn good! *oh yah baby!
> 
> 
> oh man, that would rule so much.*



That is a great idea. I'm kinda a flash pro but the only thing that worries me would be that it would be a bit of a large file with all those animations happening at random and constantly looping. It might be hell for the people who are using dial-up.

Here's a banner I animated and did the interactivity for. You can see it takes a tad longer to load and I got a hella fast connection. Just something to think about. http://distributionondemand.com/

----------


## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Lukeman+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lukeman)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				For the Text on it, you could make a simple Water Touch, so it would be wavy, if thats what you mean by blowing maybe...?[/b]
> 			
> 		
> ...



hrm.  maybe?   ::mrgreen::

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## Dylan

Hey! I like how the watermark extends into the page. To be honest, I think it could stay as the page's theme... I think it would still look fine with the banners changed, I mean it's not very obtrusive, just a light little leaf thing... i really think it would look fine with other banners, if you want i could make an example. 

Also, what if the leaves could be used as a footer.. just flipped upsidedown? Sort of like leaves crawling up?

Dylan

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Lomebririon+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lomebririon)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				<!--QuoteBegin-Santa 'dawg
> 			
> 		
> ...



i think eventually that's just something artists have to come to terms with:  those of us who are not artistically inclined don't have the same mental tools for visualizing what we'd like to see.  sure, we know we like something when we see it, but it's not as easy for us to approach from the other direction.

anyway, i'd suggest--if you're still interested--that you not worry about what i'd like to see, but rather make something that'd you'd love to see above the forum.  as i said users are going to be able to select their own banners, so i can make available to others whatever you'd like to offer.  there were a few other banners in here that were suggested, including one by our leader aphius, and we'll certainly make those available as well.

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## nina

> _Originally posted by Santa 'dawg_
> *there were a few comments on the template which quite honestly i didn't even understand, so i'll have to go over them and see if there's anything else we should look at changing. *personally i still think it needs something more (setting aside the fact that it doesn't have a footer yet) but i'm at a loss as to whatelse could be done.*



Well I noticed that a few people mentioned the size of the folder modules as far as width wise in comparison to other elements such as the banner...how they are centered down the middle with large margins on either side. At least that's what I took from what they had to say? Maybe it wouldn't hurt to make them wider and lessen the margins on either side to appease their concerns? I dunno. I kinda agree with them.

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by lucidnina_
> *Well I noticed that a few people mentioned the size of the folder modules as far as width wise in comparison to other elements such as the banner...how they are centered down the middle with large margins on either side. At least that's what I took from what they had to say? Maybe it wouldn't hurt to make them wider and lessen the margins on either side to appease their concerns? I dunno. I kinda agree with them.*



i believe they were referring to the imposed size limit on the overall page (i.e. just under 800 pixels)...?


today i changed the colour and font properties of the folder titles, made the horizontal-lined background just a tad bit darker, along with the one of the cell colours, and i also tried throwing in a shadow behind the folders.  i'm not sure on the shadow, and unfortunately it doesn't look as good as it could because the horizontal lined background makes it difficult (there's no way to tell if the folder will start on a dark line or a light one, so i cannot include darker and lighter versions of the background blurred in the shadow since they might not match up).  there are two styles there (the first with the right white border separating the shadow from the cells, and the other two w/o the white border); comments are appreciated.   ::mrgreen::   if the shadow idea is liked, are they dark/light enough, and big enough?


it still feels to me like it needs something though...like some more blue somewhere?  or something.


http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum

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## icedawg

hrm.  well, here's what i posted earlier today; these are auxiliary banner suggestions (i.e. they'd go directly under the menu):














they've all been distorted due to resizing and whatnot, but i don't think that's terribly obvious.  remember, i want to pick at least 3 (only one of a waterfall though).  i've got some nice panoramic beach images and forest images, so i'll go through those when i've time and post them as well.


also, just a note that i increased the new design's size to 950 pixels (from 778); i haven't increase the header yet so you can see the difference (http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/ )


comments and any additional help with the theme is welcome, because i really want to get this thing done and i'm running out of free time.

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## Dylan

I like 3, 4,  and 6 quite a bit. Sorry I haven't been around helping lately, I've been busy. I'm going to ontario tomorrow so I most likely won't even see this project until it's finished! Looking forward to seeing the finished product though, It's coming along nicely.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy New Year, etc.

Cheers,
Dylan

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## Haz

I favour 2, 4 and 5. The water makes it seem, tranquil.

Just my 2 cents  :wink2: 

~Haz  ::mrgreen::

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Dylan_
> *I like 3, 4, *and 6 quite a bit. Sorry I haven't been around helping lately, I've been busy. I'm going to ontario tomorrow so I most likely won't even see this project until it's finished! Looking forward to seeing the finished product though, It's coming along nicely.*



ah.  hrm.  i was kind of hoping you were going to finish up the banner for us.  guess i'll have to find someone else then.

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## Demerzel

icedawg lives in ontario, meet him and do it at his place  :tongue2: 

anyway, non-senseless banter stuff whatever..
i like the third and the fourth, but the fourth is rather badly "distorted due to resizing". i posted this in cc but i thought i'd re-post it here.

-tech

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## icedawg

does anybody want to try coming up with header and footer rows for the topic listings in the new theme?  i mean these:



i was thinking one blue and one grey/silver.  i was also hoping to get something neat looking and not plain.  different designs for enclosing the topic listings are also welcome.  basically i'm trying to come up with a unique design for the index page, then a unique design for topic listings, and finally a unique design for forum messages (not posts, but forum information).  obv. everything should work together as well.  anyway, i figured since i cannot fix the banner on my own i'd move on to working on the rest of the theme.

i tried playing with a dark blue leading into a light blue for the top bar, but i cannot get crappy paint shop to take more steps in its progression; thus, it's too sudden of a change.

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## Lomebririon

> _Originally posted by icedawg_
> *ah. hrm. i was kind of hoping you were going to finish up the banner for us. guess i'll have to find someone else then.*



Pick me! Oh for the love of God pick ME!  ::shock::

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## Aphius

> _Originally posted by icedawg_
> *does anybody want to try coming up with header and footer rows for the topic listings in the new theme? *i mean these:
> 
> 
> 
> i was thinking one blue and one grey/silver. *i was also hoping to get something neat looking and not plain. *different designs for enclosing the topic listings are also welcome. *basically i'm trying to come up with a unique design for the index page, then a unique design for topic listings, and finally a unique design for forum messages (not posts, but forum information). *obv. everything should work together as well. *anyway, i figured since i cannot fix the banner on my own i'd move on to working on the rest of the theme.
> 
> i tried playing with a dark blue leading into a light blue for the top bar, but i cannot get crappy paint shop to take more steps in its progression; thus, it's too sudden of a change.*



Do you mean something like this for the header/footer? (I didn't know the right font for the categories)



 ::|:

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## icedawg

hey aphius, the silver looks good!  i'm not entirely sold on the blue though.   ::mrgreen:: 

and lome thanks for the offer, but i think we may have to put this project on the back burner for now.  i guess i was hoping we'd get more people working on it (because there are apparently 20 people on the Art Design Team) but unfortunately few volunteered, and i've run out of the time i had to work on it, and there's still a fair amount of work required to finish the full theme.

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## Aphius

> _Originally posted by icedawg_
> *hey aphius, the silver looks good! *i'm not entirely sold on the blue though. **



Yeah, I don't really think it works either, but hey, improvements can be made.  :smiley:

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## Dylan

Hey I'm back.  :tongue2:  Awesome holidays.... so how's this project going? What's happening now?

Dylan

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## Lomebririon

Well, it seems we have to postpone it until later because Ice has run out of the time he had to work on it, and there's still a fair amount of work required to finish the full theme.

So, it's on the backburner for now.

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Lomebririon_
> *Well, it seems we have to postpone it until later because Ice has run out of the time he had to work on it, and there's still a fair amount of work required to finish the full theme.
> 
> So, it's on the backburner for now.*




good summary my man!  *high-fives*

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## Lomebririon

> _Originally posted by icedawg_
> *good summary my man!  *high-fives**



  ::D:

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## Alex D

To be honest, I would like to see a dark skin, the bright ones aern't that easy on the eyes, they still look cool.

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## icedawg

i was bored so i did a little work on the viewforum page (http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/vi...ewforum.php?f=1).  

i based this on the folders from the main page but removed the large tab.  i have the same blue bar on top but i don't like it; i think it needs to be replaced by a different style (still blue) with a greater height.  i think the grey bar (by aphius) at the bottom would have to be a little taller too (the row housing the 'display topics from previous' listbox).  there's still things that need to be fixed, and i can't help but feel that it still needs more blue, but it's better than it was.

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## Alex D

All I think it really needs now is a slightly darker text for the guest's topics then it's about done.

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## Lomebririon

So, are we still working on it?

Do you still want another banner?

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## icedawg

i'm going to play around with it every now and then, but it's going to take quite a while to finish it given the little time i have.  as for the banner, i really don't know what to say, because this is rather far off in the future now.

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## Alex D

I personally really like the banner, my only problem with is is the font, it seems too, well sketchy, it may just be the image type doing this, I say sharpen up the font and you're onto a winner.

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## Kaniaz

The image has, for now, been resized in such a way that everything on it looks a little skewed. Rest assured, when (if) we come to changing, that will be fixed...well, it's not exactly broke. But nevermind.

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## icedawg

yah, like kaniaz said, just ignore the distorted banner.

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## icedawg

i found a little more time so i wrapped up the viewforum_body.tpl template file; you can see the final version here:  http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/vi...ewforum.php?f=1.


it displays properly in IE but unfortunately Firefox and Netscape add a small white border only to the left of the blue header row; Opera, instead, adds that unwanted white border to the right of the blue header (IE properly doesn't display it).  i had to change the way the tables and cell boundaries were drawn to prevent the vertical cell-separating lines from cutting up the blue header bar (because it looks better solid); i couldn't use two separate tables because the cell widths can vary (for example, long author names will stretch that cell) and i wanted the headings to line up with the columns.  unfortunately although the style sheet clearly states the header cells should not have any borders, the aforementioned browsers seem determined to add one (and only one) for some reason.


anyway, i used aphius's grey bar and made it a little taller, and i stole the blue bar from someplace; i left it the colour in which i found it because i think it works...?  anyway, any comments or suggestions are welcome.

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## Kaniaz

Yep, I see that little white box thing. There's also another one just below the last post indicator graphic.

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Kaniaz_
> *There's also another one just below the last post indicator graphic.*



eh?


anywaywho, i've been playing around with the horizontal-lined background colours because i think the design is too bright and monochrome.  i've got it at a dark blue colour right now, which looks better than some of the others i've tried but isn't quite right.  it's a little tricky because you'd have to picture some changes made to the other elements that make up the page (e.g. the shadows around the folders and below the menu, and the font colours on top of the horizontal lines, and maybe the tables surrounding the legends and heading text should be a different colour) to really tell if the colours would work.  anyway, some help here would be great!  the only two pages that are essentially complete thus far are the index page and the viewforum.php page, so just use those when determining what works and what doesn't.

http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/index.php

http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/vi...ewforum.php?f=1



peace out g

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## Eeek

blue background = uglay   ::shock::

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## Tsen

But I liked the blue background...

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## icedawg

well it's not the right background, but it's a concept...the idea was to encourage people to help come up with the right background, because i definitely don't like the light white/grey one we had there before.

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by Eeek_
> *blue background = uglay **



  ::eh::  Blue is the way to go - tranquel   :woohoo:  

No doubt about it !

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## icedawg

well i lightened the blue background somewhat, but now the background seems to work better with lomebririon's banner (check it out:  http://www.dreamviews.com/kickass_forum/in...ex.php?banner=2).  there'd again need to be more changes to get it to fit in (e.g. blue bars in folders), but it's better than what i had.  but anyway, come on people!  i need people trying different colours and whatnot and figuring out what's going to work.

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## Tsen

Well, I'm still a little worried about the banner looking too mystic or dark.  We don't want to scare people, or give them the idea that we're promoting some kind of black magic or what-not.  Instead, why don't we use an image that shows a sky or landscape with a shift between day and night?  Something like this:

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## Lomebririon

Don't like the blue much, but it is just a concept like you said. What sort of background are you looking for? You thinking another colour? Or something completely different.
Yay! Muh banner! It's pretty distorted, but I suppose it can't be perfect in a whole other frameset.  :tongue2:  I could probably make a longer one if you were so inclined.

Well, absolutely LOVIN' the layout, bars, buttons and all. Perfection in that department!  :smiley:

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Tsen_
> *Well, I'm still a little worried about the banner looking too mystic or dark.  We don't want to scare people, or give them the idea that we're promoting some kind of black magic or what-not.  Instead, why don't we use an image that shows a sky or landscape with a shift between day and night?  Something like this:
> *



looks good tsen.  and i agree about the banner's darkness.





> Don't like the blue much, but it is just a concept like you said. What sort of background are you looking for? You thinking another colour? Or something completely different. [/b]



i was hoping the new lighter blue was a little closer.  anyway, i'm not sure what would work best there, i just know the light grey one we had before was too bright and made the theme too monochromatic.  i'd suggest that it either be blue or grey, because those are the site's colours, and also i'm pretty much set on the horizontal-lined idea.





> Yay! Muh banner! It's pretty distorted, but I suppose it can't be perfect in a whole other frameset.  I could probably make a longer one if you were so inclined. [/b]



hehe...don't get too excited just yet!  it is unfortunately too dark for our use; the black birds and the shadowy figure (who comes off as more of a warlock-like-figure rather than an explorer) connote a little more evil than i'd like (lucid dreaming already has a stigma rather firmly attached in regards to that, and i'd rather us not aid and abet that perception).  if people actually understood lucid dreaming then i wouldn't be so concerned about this.

anyway, i'm at a loss in regards to whether we need to decide on the final banner and then come up with a background that will work, or do the background first and then design a matching banner.  i think the background first would work best though, which allows us to make the smaller decisions first, in effect perhaps easing the latter.  maybe.





> Well, absolutely LOVIN' the layout, bars, buttons and all. Perfection in that department![/b]



thanks.  it's getting there.  ::bigteeth::

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## Lomebririon

> _Originally posted by icedawg+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(icedawg)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				hehe...don't get too excited just yet!  it is unfortunately too dark for our use[/b]
> 			
> 		
> ...



Background first, definately easier. Banner work is like fumbling in the dark right now. 
The layout at this point, like fashion, is rather fickle and could change as easily as the wind. Making any previous designs null and void. That would suck ass.  ::shock::

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## icedawg

alright, so, well, what does everyone think of the blue that's there now?  i've been looking at it once every day and it's been growing on me, and personally i'm at the point where i really like it.   ::mrgreen::   some work woudl be required to get the other elements of the page to blend in--perhaps including changing some colours--and of course a new banner would be required.  i'd really like to get a decision made on this though, because i'd like to move forward (and no one has come up with any alternatives other than telling me they didn't like it, which is just loads of help  ::rolleyes:: ).

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## Placebo

Yeah, I like it. At first I wasn't sure, but it grows on you - like you said  :smiley: 
*brushes it away before it grows too big*

I'd like to see what it looks like with a new banner...

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## Kaniaz

I don't like that blue background type thing you got there. It just looks wrong...how to explain it? It's the same sort of "wrong" feeling you get when you use huge flourescent background colours for websites (anything too bright). I did like that silver that was there. Still, I like this theme as it stands. But I guess if you must change it...

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## icedawg

> _Originally posted by Kaniaz_
> *I don't like that blue background type thing you got there. It just looks wrong...how to explain it? It's the same sort of \"wrong\" feeling you get when you use huge flourescent background colours for websites (anything too bright). I did like that silver that was there. Still, I like this theme as it stands. But I guess if you must change it...*



alright, well check the blue out tomorrow, and friday, and saturday, then tell me how you feel about it on Sunday.  i started to like it after 4 or so days; the light grey just creates too much dullness.   ::bigteeth:: 


anyway, i don't know whatelse to do and no other suggestions have been made.

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## Kaniaz

> _Originally posted by icedawg+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(icedawg)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				<!--QuoteBegin-Kaniaz
> 			
> 		
> ...



It's tommorow today (shh) and I still don't like it. It's just, to me at least, "IN YOUR FACE". I mean, it just simply dosen't work. Still, since you made it, you're going to say it's great anyway. I don't think I'd ever grow accustomed to liking that. It doesn't make for easy reading. The theme, to me, uses way too much blue with that. The silver balanced it out more. Blue banner, blue icon, blue buttons, blue drop-down-lists - that looked cool - but then, a blue background. It just dosen't work.

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## Alex D

Perhaps a pale grey would work better.

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