# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Dream Signs and Recall >  >  Atheism and Dream Recall

## hapkidoman

I have a question:  Do Atheists have less dream recall than religious people?

It sounds like a strange question and I don't want to offend anyone, but I am a Christian and have always been able to remember my dreams.  However, my girlfriend and her brother are Atheists (they are also from Vietnam- so maybe culture has a big deal to do with dream recall) and they can only remember about 1 dream per month.  I always thought that everyone was like me (in terms of dream recall) until I met them.  A lot of religious people I know dream quite frequently and can remember there dreams.  

They are the only atheists that I know, so I was just wondering if there were any Atheists on here that could relate to them.

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## Altair

I am an Athiest and my dream recall is 1-2 dreams per night but I often get talked to right as I awake so I often forget one dream. Sometimes I have a few days where I cannot remember anything but that is generally because I am not trying. Religion makes no difference and doesn't the Church teach that everyone is equal so it shouldn't make a difference in abilities.

(no offense meant in any of that)

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## hapkidoman

No offense taken.  I didn't want to offend anyone in anyway.  I don't want people to think that I am saying that religious people are better at dream recall.  I was just curious as to why they couldn't remember their dreams.  The only two differences between us are that they are atheist and I am Christian and that I am American and they are Vietnamese.

Thank you so much for your input, though.  

And yes, all people are equal  :smiley: .

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## hapkidoman

However, religion or lack of religion should effect dreams or at least the dreamer's interpretation of what they are seeing.

All Christians should basically have slightly similar dream experiences due to what we were taught growing up.

Likewise, Buddhists or Atheists should have dreams similar to others of there religious background.

What do you think?

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## Seeker

I don't think that a persons religeous (or lack of) beliefs should have any affect on recall.  

The main thing affecting recall that I can identify is the amount of effort you put into it.

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## hapkidoman

Thanks for the reply.

Do you think that a person's religious beliefs or lack of them effect their dreams or atleast the interpretation of the dream?

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## LucidDreamGod

I'm an atheist and I can sometimes recall 2-3 dreams a night, most ever was like 7 or 10

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## innerspacecadet

I'm atheist, and I recall at least fragments of 1-2 dreams per night if I give myself a chance to write them down, or if not, then I at least remember *that* I had a dream.

I would guess your friends' low dream recall is related to how they conduct their mornings, their sleep patterns, and their level of interest in dreams.  All of those may be culturally influenced.  Perhaps their eating habits affect dream recall or lack thereof as well.  Some people here talk about using Vitamin B6 as a dream drug for more vivid dreams, and say that it works by helping you metabolize tryptophan, an amino acid (protein component) associated with good sleep.  So if their Vietnamese dietary habits give them low B6, low Tryptophan, or both, that might affect their dream recall.

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## hapkidoman

> I'm an atheist and I can sometimes recall 2-3 dreams a night, most ever was like 7 or 10



Since your an Atheist do you find that your dreams are different in their context from those who are religious?  Like if an Atheist saw a light at the end of the tunnel he or she might think, "who left the light on?"  If a Christian saw a light at the end of the tunnel they might think, "Did I just die?" 

Also, thanks for your reply.

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## hapkidoman

> I'm atheist, and I recall at least fragments of 1-2 dreams per night if I give myself a chance to write them down, or if not, then I at least remember *that* I had a dream.
> 
> I would guess your friends' low dream recall is related to how they conduct their mornings, their sleep patterns, and their level of interest in dreams.  All of those may be culturally influenced.  Perhaps their eating habits affect dream recall or lack thereof as well.  Some people here talk about using Vitamin B6 as a dream drug for more vivid dreams, and say that it works by helping you metabolize tryptophan, an amino acid (protein component) associated with good sleep.  So if their Vietnamese dietary habits give them low B6, low Tryptophan, or both, that might affect their dream recall.



Very good argument, thank you.  I know that they eat extremely healthy and natural foods (as compared to the American diet) they also put an extremely big emphasis on getting a good night sleep and always go to bed at the same time.  

Thanks for the reply.

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## Altair

As I said before, I do not think religion would effect recall at all. I think being in the same religion as someone would only makes it slightly more likely that you will have similar dreams because unless it is all you think about then you are probably unlikely to dream about it. I tend to dream about things I am currently obsessed with (don't know about anyone else). So in my view unless you are devout then it won't make much difference. This is only my interpretation though, and I am sure part's of my views are wrong.


Extremely sorry once again if I have caused offense.

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## hapkidoman

> As I said before, I do not think religion would effect recall at all. I think being in the same religion as someone would only makes it slightly more likely that you will have similar dreams because unless it is all you think about then you are probably unlikely to dream about it. I tend to dream about things I am currently obsessed with (don't know about anyone else). So in my view unless you are devout then it won't make much difference. This is only my interpretation though, and I am sure part's of my views are wrong.
> 
> 
> Extremely sorry once again if I have caused offense.



You're probably right, my father is a minister so I've grown up around church all my life.  However, I can't think of a single time where my dream was religious in anyway.  

By the way, since you are an atheist, what are your views on astral projection?  I've never been taught that it was possible, but it seems (from this website and from others) that people do have these experiences, I don't know if they are just really vivid dreams or if someone's soul does leave their body.  I've never had a lucid and I've never had an AP.

I was just curious to what you thought about the whole thing.  My girlfriend is atheist, but I don't want to argue with her about these topics (and hurt our relationship), but if you could tell me your point of view on the topic it would be really appreciated.

Thanks a lot

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## Kromoh

I am atheist myself and find it somehow hard to remember my dreams. But I don't htink it is related to religion, sicne I had a catholic education, and only when I was around 14 I turned atheist.

I think our beliefs do indeed affect our dream, just like any other characteristic of ours: knowledge, traumas, personality and so on. Just like people take different decisions, people dream differently.

About APs: I don't believe in soul (I'm atheist heh). So the whole concept of AP or OBE turns false to me. I suppose they are just lucid dreams. If you are lucid in your dreams, what you expect to happen will happen. So if you believe you are experiencing an AP (in your dream) it will sound like so. But those are only my beliefs: other atheists may think differently.

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## maria*theresa

I too believe remembering dreams depends on who you are.  How you interpret those can do with religion.  My boyfriend and I are both agnostic (I'm a little on the atheist side as well), and he's never been able to remember dreams whereas I always have.

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## ClouD

OMG OFFENDED.

Your lack of basic theology is pure ignorance.

I think that's a bit disgusting eh?

I am trying to restrain a bit here... but no...

You foolish blind preacher. You want to fall into the ditch and down to self induced hell?
Be my guest.

How can you be so utterly ignorant? Yuck.

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## Sornaensis

> OMG OFFENDED.
> 
> Your lack of basic theology is pure ignorance.
> 
> I think that's a bit disgusting eh?
> 
> I am trying to restrain a bit here... but no...
> 
> You foolish blind preacher. Fall into the ditch and down to self induced hell.



THAT KID JUST GOT OWNED!!!

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## DeadDollKitty

-_- this is what happens to a religious freaked world

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## suttsman

I am very offended. How are Christians superior to Atheists in Anything?! (vice-versa as well) You can't make a thesis off of a fricking coincidence! Could you research before you make assumptions?

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## LuxAeterna

I am a Catholic, and have been practicing all my life. Before I started trying to LD and before I kept a DJ, I had horrible recall. It's still not very good, but much better.

I would say that being religious or not ordinarily would have little effect on dreams. However, I would also say that maybe for those who are extraordinarily religious (think saints), the content of their dreams might be different. But that goes for any person who thinks about one particular thing all the time. Just like if you think about and do RCs all day, they work their way into your dreams. If you think about God (or a lack thereof) all day, it might spill over into the dream-world. But I don't think it would effect recall.





> Religion makes no difference and doesn't the Church teach that everyone is equal so it shouldn't make a difference in abilities.
> 
> (no offense meant in any of that)



My Church (the Catholic Church) doesn't teach that every person is equal in abilities. It's obvious that we are not all equal in ability. What the Church does teach (just in case you might be interested) is that we are all equal in _dignity_ because we were all made in the image and likeness of God for the same end: eternal communion with Him.

-Lux

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## ♥Mark

> I am very offended. How are Christians superior to Atheists in Anything?!



They're better at lying to themselves. I mean, OMG OFFENDED

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## Sornaensis

> I am very offended. How are Christians superior to Atheists in Anything?! (vice-versa as well) You can't make a thesis off of a fricking coincidence! Could you research before you make assumptions?



It has been researched that the average Agnostic has higher SAT scores than the average Christian  :wink2: .

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## LuxAeterna

> I am very offended. How are Christians superior to Atheists in Anything?! (vice-versa as well) You can't make a thesis off of a fricking coincidence! Could you research before you make assumptions?



I do not agree with the idea in the first post, but I think if you'll read it again you'll see that it was formulated as a _question_. Hapkidoman saw an apparent correlation, and then he came here for more data to confirm or deny the apparent correlation suggested by his personal experience.

I think it is fairly obvious that his idea was ill-reasoned, but he didn't make an assumption--he came here to research the matter.

By your own logic you should praise him for doing exactly what you said he ought to do: rather than assume that Christians have better recall than Atheists, he asked the Atheists if that was the case.

-Lux

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## ClouD

> I do not agree with the idea in the first post, but I think if you'll read it again you'll see that it was formulated as a _question_. Hapkidoman saw an apparent correlation, and then he came here for more data to confirm or deny the apparent correlation suggested by his personal experience.
> 
> I think it is fairly obvious that his idea was ill-reasoned, but he didn't make an assumption--he came here to research the matter.
> 
> By your own logic you should praise him for doing exactly what you said he ought to do: rather than assume that Christians have better recall than Atheists, he asked the Atheists if that was the case.
> 
> -Lux



The way he "asked" the question, was extremely implicative of his intent.

Blindly ignorant, actually.

I checked out, and most of his posts are in this indirectly offensive format, assuming ridiculous statements, through pseudo-pretentious methods.

If i were to say, "No offense, but do black people have better dream recall, because they get shot at all the time?", there would be an uproar. It's ridiculous, and unfounded.

You wouldn't say, awww he's just trying to find the answer to a question.

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## LuxAeterna

> The way he "asked" the question, was extremely implicative of his intent.
> 
> Blindly ignorant, actually.
> 
> I checked out, and most of his posts are in this indirectly offensive format, assuming ridiculous statements, through pseudo-pretentious methods.
> 
> If i were to say, "No offense, but do black people have better dream recall, because of the way they are brought up?", there would be an uproar. It's ridiculous, and unfounded.
> 
> You wouldn't say, awww he's just trying to find the answer to a question.



It seems at least possible that the way he asked it is not because he is trying to insinuate something, but just because of ignorance or naivety. If the latter is the case--and it seems we should extend the benefit of the doubt--then the proper way to respond would be calm, collected correction, not angered objection.

Your analogous question is faulty because being black or white is an innate, inborn trait that has nothing to do with upbringing or chosen beliefs. Being Christian or Atheist, however, is completely upbringing and/or personally formulated, chosen beliefs. And, since dreams are made up of our experiences, and our recall often the product of how we look at dreams, it is at least very marginally possible that this might effect dreams. But I don't think it would in any significant way.

-Lux

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## Viperfox

I'm not an atheist, I'm a Darwinist.

I have awesome recall if it was an engrossing dream. Otherwise, i just forget about it.

 -VF

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## arby

Dream recall causes cancer.

EDIT: So does mark

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## ♥Mark

NO DREAM DISCUSSION IN THE FORUMS









f

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## ClouD

> It seems at least possible that the way he asked it is not because he is trying to insinuate something, but just because of ignorance or naivety. If the latter is the case--and it seems we should extend the benefit of the doubt--then the proper way to respond would be calm, collected correction, not angered objection.
> 
> Your analogous question is faulty because being black or white is an innate, inborn trait that has nothing to do with upbringing or chosen beliefs. Being Christian or Atheist, however, is completely upbringing and/or personally formulated, chosen beliefs. And, since dreams are made up of our experiences, and our recall often the product of how we look at dreams, it is at least very marginally possible that this might effect dreams. But I don't think it would in any significant way.
> 
> -Lux



I edited the post to make it correlate, after noticing the subjective context.

It should make much more sense now.

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## Adanac

I think this theory has a sound basis. I used to be an atheist, I only remembered one or two dreams a night. Now I'm a Pastafarian and I remember 2-3 dreams a night. It's a miracle. Thank the flying spaghetti monster!

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## ♥Mark

Sing it, brother!

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## Sornaensis

> Sing it, brother!



/me sings the FSM theme song

std::

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## ♥Mark

My bones proclaim a story of incompetent design,
By back still hurts, my sinus clogs, my teeth just won't align...

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## Abra

Some religions place greater stress on dreams than other religions, and of course more than having _no_ religion. That would only affect conditioned recall, one would think. I doubt it'd affect intentional recall.

I believe in the values of Christianity, and some Buddhism as well. I have my own beliefs about God (I doubt "he" has a gender) and the afterlife. I _don't_ relate religion to dreaming, unless you consider conscious breathing (Buddhist) strongly religious. With my mix-n-match religion, I recall three REM periods of dreams per night (each REM period may have multiple dream episodes). I believe the rate of recall is totally independent from religion.

If recall and religion were and equation, it'd look like this:

recall=motivation(variable) X sleep physiology(coefficient) + religious/cultural importance of dreaming (constant).

Take the derivative, and religion/culture drops out, so it wouldn't affect the rate of change.

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## hapkidoman

Just to clear up some things:

1.  I really did never mean to anger any religious or non religious group

2.  I wasn't making a statement that I thought to be true, I just saw that two Atheists recalled dreams in one way and I recalled them in another way.  I just wanted to find out if other Atheists were like them or if it was, because of the way they were raised/thought/live.

3.  I don't think for an instant that Christians are better than Atheists in any way.  My girlfriend is an Atheist - if I thought that Christians were better and that Atheists are inferior then I probably wouldn't date her.

4.  Atheists have a lot to offer, I like the points of view that my girlfriend has and she has really opened me up to ideas about life that I never considered before.  I was hoping that some of the Atheists on this thread would share their thoughts on the matter.

5.  Religion is very influential to certain people and effect the way that they act in life (Radical Muslims vs. Tibetan Buddhists for instance) they both share extremely different views on life and I am sure that these views translate into their dreams.  

6.  A hypnotist was on the radio and said that through hypnosis a women can deliver a baby with absolutely no pain.  The only reason women have pain during childbirth is because they are repeatedly told throughout life that it is the most painful experience in life.  So, because of fear, she tenses up all of her muscles during labor.  This example was used to show how critical certain suggestions are in life; how what you are told as a child can effect you for the rest of your life.  I saw a correlation between my girlfriend and her brother and wondered if the poor recall was due to their beliefs or due to another factor.  

7.  Thanks for all of your input, I know now that the Atheist on this forum do not have trouble with memory recall so it must be another factor.

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## Grod

> It has been researched that the average Agnostic has higher SAT scores than the average Christian .



Guys, there has been research. Research!

It has been researched that the moon landing was faked. So was the Holocaust.

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## Wicked

I'm an atheist, and I have, and I say this without bragging, tremendous dream recall.

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## SKA

Hapkido man, I am an Agnost. I do not nececairily believe in God, but I have experienced what I can only call the divine. So although I am not a Religious person I do experience "religious" feelings. You're idea that a Christian, uppon seeing a light at the end of a tunnel, might think "Did I just Die?" where the Atheist would think "Did someone leave a light on?" is a bit biased.

As if an Atheist would miss that passionate connection with the Source of Creation to be able to give things deep symbolical meaning. As if they would be too shallowminded almost. If you think that is so, then you are in alot of cases wrong. There are ALOT of religious people that don't have that connection established and just do what they have been taught by Church and Family, and alot of non-Religious people that have that Connection very well established.
If You, a Christian, and Me, an Agnost, can see deep symbolic reasons and meanings in Dreams and waking life experiences, then why can't an Atheist? 

I am not religious yet, somehow, I have my own religion, Individual religion. I dare to swear you I very well know the meaning of the word Holy. I see Dreams as being divine miraculous visions of other worlds. I do not need Christ or God to reason it in such a way. *"God"* is just another Methaphor for The divine nature of all of Reality. All that which is beyond us in a way unrelated to time or space.

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## hapkidoman

Due to the over wellming response from Atheists, it seems that there is no connection between belief and dream recall.  

However, my friend (Christian) and my girlfriend (atheist) don't remember dreams; however, they are both always so stressed and seem to be stressed even when there is nothing to be stressed about.

So the new question is:  does stress effect dream recall?

As a side note, they both grind their teeth so they are more stressed than the average student.

Also, thanks for all of the replies.  I never meant for the discussion to turn into a discussion on evidence for God.  I just wanted Atheists to let me know if I was right about my hypothesis (which I'm not).  I didn't want to make an assumption, so that's why I asked.

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## Mes Tarrant

> Due to the over wellming response from Atheists, it seems that there is no connection between belief and dream recall.  
> 
> However, my friend (Christian) and my girlfriend (atheist) don't remember dreams; however, they are both always so stressed and seem to be stressed even when there is nothing to be stressed about.
> 
> So the new question is:  does stress effect dream recall?
> 
> As a side note, they both grind their teeth so they are more stressed than the average student.
> 
> Also, thanks for all of the replies.  I never meant for the discussion to turn into a discussion on evidence for God.  I just wanted Atheists to let me know if I was right about my hypothesis (which I'm not).  I didn't want to make an assumption, so that's why I asked.



I don't get how religious differences was the first thing that came to your mind though.  ::?:  

Anyway, yes stress affects dream recall.

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## KxWaal

I'm an atheist and I can remember around 3 dreams a night.
My awkward, ridiculous sleeping schedule seems to help fair bit.
Are the two atheists you mention overly interested in dreams?... Because I find people interested in LDs etc. seem to have better dream recall in general.

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## hapkidoman

> I'm an atheist and I can remember around 3 dreams a night.
> My awkward, ridiculous sleeping schedule seems to help fair bit.
> Are the two atheists you mention overly interested in dreams?... Because I find people interested in LDs etc. seem to have better dream recall in general.



Actually you brought up yet another good point.  They are not interested in anyway with dreams because they usually have nightmares so after I asked them about it they said that they learned not to dream (or rather learned to forget about the dreams, unfortunately for them they probably taught themselves not to remember the good dreams, because they still can remember the nightmares - about 1 or 2 per month).

Also, as soon as I became interested in LD's my dream recall went from one or two per night to my new record last night of 5 dreams.  So your point is very valid.

Thanks

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## Altair

Getting off topic now! And LuxAeterna I meant everyone is equal in dignity  :smiley:  And hapkidoman, I tend to think skeptically about AP - It is in the mind of the person but I am open to phasing - You go into a different conscious level. And Cloud! The only reason (from the sounds of it) tha hapkidoman is asking this is because most people around him are Christian and he doesn't want a reaction like yours from his girlfriend/(other friends?).

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## DreamChaser

I am an atheist and IMO it is the interpretation of the dream that differs.
I see dreams and lucidity as being from my mind and experiences, as all I beilieve in is my self.
Non-athiests would, I assume, often relate or explain their dreams/lucidity as divine intervention or messages from God etc.
Ultimately the dream/lucidity process is the same, just the reasoning and rationalisation is different.
I open my mind to anything happenening in my dreams and am non-restricted as much as say a Christian. 
They may see heaven or picture being there, as I may see a beautiful vast beach lined with bikini girls (my heaven).
To be honest, my mind is open to anything happenening, and I mean anything, where non-athiests may be restricted to their finite belief srtructure.
Only my opinion.

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## DreamChaser

little bump.

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## Kane

Altair what did you mean by "phasing" ? Just wondering ... cuz i've never heard of it before.

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## Tamias

No offense at all (I'm wonderfully surprised at how open everybody is here!)

I can't say what the real answer is (who can?), but I think your ability to recall dreams is unrelated to your religion (though you might perceive those same dreams differently, as mentioned before). It might just vary by person, and who has had more time to practice, or who is just more naturally gifted at it.

I don't label myself with any religion (and I dislike the term Atheist, as I feel it still brands me with a set of weighty beliefs I don't want to bear), and I have absolutely terrible (read: no) dream recall ability. My friend, a red fox (how uncanny is that?) has much better luck than I do, but he has never practiced and doesn't record his dreams. So I think it's a very personal thing.

To everybody fighting: please calm down ^_^ It is so easy to forget that, different as we seem, we are all still alive, and that is something to be grateful for. I think some rituals many religions (including Christianity) practice are unnecessary and morally disturbing (like how the Bible practically advocates animal cruelty on the basis that "they" are less important in God's eyes than "us"), but I'm not going to yell at them about it. Try to see the merit in what they are saying (like how Jesus preached of love) instead of focusing on the bad.

I hope this helped...?

~Tamias

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