# Off-Topic Discussion > Extended Discussion >  >  Should Marijuana be Legal?

## guitarboy

Discuss your thoughts. 
I'll pop in when and ignoramus says "OMG TEH ONLI GOOD DRUGS AR LEIK ADVIL ND STUFF ITS ILLEGAL CUZ ITS BUD FOR U"

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## Adam

I think so yes, based on alcohol being legal, and as far as research suggest they're not to dissimilar in terms of the risk profile.

However, if it were to be legalized, I would hope that it would only be so in your own home, or something like that, and this would go for all smoking. I cannot stand when I'm walking through town or somewhere and you walk through someone's second hand smoke, so I'd not have a problem, as long as smoking in general was dealt with better for those non-smokers.

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## guitarboy

Topic:
Do you think it will stimulate the economy?

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## Adam

> Topic:
> Do you think it will stimulate the economy?



No.

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## Shift

I don't smoke it, I don't care about it, but more importantly _I don't think it's any of the government's business if you use marijuana or not._

Because that's my feeling, I'm voting yes and unsubscribing. In my opinion there's nothing to discuss- it's no one's business but your own if you are smoking, unless you are entering into some sort of an agreement (for example, a job) where the person you are dealing with does not wish for you to use it. And in that case, you can just find yourself another job.

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## Kromoh

> I think so yes, based on alcohol being legal, and as far as research suggest they're not to dissimilar in terms of the risk profile.
> 
> However, if it were to be legalized, I would hope that it would only be so in your own home, or something like that, and this would go for all smoking. I cannot stand when I'm walking through town or somewhere and you walk through someone's second hand smoke, so I'd not have a problem, as long as smoking in general was dealt with better for those non-smokers.



QFT. Nothing else to add.

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## ninja9578

> Topic:
> Do you think it will stimulate the economy?



Not a chance in hell. It's price is high because it's illegal, legalize it and the price drops like a rock.  I don't remember what the number that the hard-cores throw around is (something like $10 billion a year) is based on the current price of marijuana.  And 10 billion isn't as much as it sounds like, considering the country is 1,100 times that much in debt.

Personal freedom, less government.  Let's hope that the blue congress remembers that they are liberals instead of the sudden conservative stances they've taken recently.

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## NonDualistic

I havnt a care one way or the other

I myself find no need for it

It grows wild around here in abundance

I spray the hell out of it  with roundup herbacide

Keeps the dopers from town  from coming out and picking it ::D:

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## Odd_Nonposter

Like I said in the last MJ thread: 





> *"If the words "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."*
> - Terence McKenna




My reasons for legalization:

You cannot overdose. A 160lb man would have to consume around 3 lbs in 15 minutes to even approach the LD50. 
It is less intoxicating than alcohol.
It is much less addictive than nicotine. Less addictive than coffee, even.
It does not cause cancer. In fact, it has anti-cancer properties.
It can help with opiate-resistant pain. MMJ patients can cut their opiate intake in half.
Vietnam veterans have noted that cannabis is the only thing that has helped their PTSD.
It's easier for many high school kids to get MJ than beer.
It would destroy drug cartels.
Police would stop hassling people for doing something that does not harm others when used responsibly.

The "gateway effect" could also be said about milk. People start on milk before they move on to bourbon, right? Drug users are more likely to start with MJ because its cheaper, more accessible, milder, and less harmful than crack or heroin. For those whose quote statistics that "some high percentage of cocaine users also use marijuana," think about this: fewer than 1% of marijuana users use cocaine. Less than that for heroin.

And what's more, there's a 100% synthetic THC drug on the market already: Marinol. It has been approved by the FDA for many years now. But, it's in pill form. Why synthetic? Because a drug company can't patent a plant. Monsanto doesn't patent plants: it patents genes. It's all about the money.

Prohibition of anything does not work. In fact, *the US is producing just as much as Colombia:* http://www.ww4report.com/node/7605


But what I'm more interested in is the legalization of industrial hemp:

It makes superior paper to wood pulp and needs fewer bleaching agents.
The fiber is the strongest natural fiber aside from spider silk.
Clothes made from it are extremely durable and can be made as soft as cotton.
The seeds have all of the essential amino acids in proportions that humans need them.
The oil can replace crude oil in most applications.
Unlike cotton, the plant is good for the soil and needs no herbicides, few pesticides and little to no fertilizer. The roots hold the soil in place and break up any fragipan that stands in their way.
Its huge biomass makes it an effective cellulosic ethanol source.

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## Kyasarin

yes it should be legalized... i suffer from rheumatoid arthritis, lost both hips, bout to lose my knees.. Im in terrible pain all day, it never goes away. But smoking pot helps so much it's like night and day. Ive been on prescription painmeds. They make me so loopy i dont know what's goin on and i can barely walk, and they make me very sick to my stomach as well. Of all the pain meds ive been on, this one works the best, and i can finally have some relief.

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## Taosaur

> Not a chance in hell. It's price is high because it's illegal, legalize it and the price drops like a rock.  I don't remember what the number that the hard-cores throw around is (something like $10 billion a year) is based on the current price of marijuana.  And 10 billion isn't as much as it sounds like, considering the country is 1,100 times that much in debt.



Whether you see the impact as significant or not, it would still have a positive economic impact on the legal side of the economy and a negative impact on the black market. Also, at the same time the 'dirt weed' market is crashing, legalization would likely increase the penetration of higher-grade strains which will retain much of their value. Anyone can grow cannabis, but it takes a highly developed skill set and aptitude to produce the good stuff (read T.C. Boyle's _Budding Prospects_).

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## Jorge

Anyone who comes in regular contact with people that use weed will notice it does affect allot of health issues and affects memory loss....but nobody cares about that...cuz your health doesnt affect the life of other people.

The reason why other people don't want you to use drugs is that it's a real ambition killer= anybody that uses allot of drugs will not see the use of living in the real world anymore (kindof like when you are a very powerfull warrior in a RPG game and everyone respects you and when you turn the PC of, you're mom is yelling at you again....it makes you want to go back to the PC again lol) for this exact reason, addicts tend to go back allot to their own cool universe and have the time of their life there...(this is more for hardcore drugs though, but marijuana also makes you feel good for no reason so you'll return to that allot as well).

While you are tripping on LSD, having sex with Cleopatra and traveling to Mars whilst being engaged in a seven year war with the God of thunder the sober people around you just see you lying on a couch drooling Very Happy and see how useless you are..
People like this will drop anything in their real life to return to those moments of ultimate pleasure; work, homework, family and every other ambition they could have fulfilled (becoming a doctor for example) since nothing gives them the same pleasure as the drug.

If everyone in the community would be using drugs 24/7 it would be hell for the sober people....you try to buy gas; the guy at the pompstation is drooling, you want to fly to europe; the pilot is at home being stoned and doesn't feel the urge to be at work anymore, you want your A-student son to become a lawyer; he prefers fucking cleopatra....

For the people who use, it's fantastic, but for those who are actually sober it really sucks to have a bunch of fucking useless people around you who don't pursue their real life dreams, don't fulfill their obligations etc.

With this idea in mind and the prevention of having a useless society , the opium law was introduced somewhere in the 19th century (opium is a very strong drug, and people who use that can stay in the opium houses for days just lying on rental beds) and marijuana etc also fall under this law currently.

However, there are two ways to display rules;
- The reason that directly affects YOU; YOU will get health problems etc, YOU will die bla bla
- The reason that affects the community in the long run....which I explained above. This reason is usually so far fetched that it just doesn't seem to apply in your own personal life....so it doesn't scare people off, plus it takes allot of time to explain people why it's bad for the community etc. You're better of just saying how it will fuck up someone's PERSONAL life then to mention how on a big scale, it is bad for the whole community.

Fascist systems are especially good in this; they convince people to do allot of small scale things (offering their life for their country etc) which from a personal view doesn't seem very satisfying but if you can pull this off with five million people you have a devastating force.

And no, I don't think it should be legal...and even then, very little will change. It's pretty much legal in Holland but from what I've seen it's nearly the same...the prices, the usage... Very little change. Marijuana is not hard to get your hands on so it's not really a big deal lol.

I do notice however that in the US marijuana and alcohol is still treated with more secrecy by young people while in Europe and most other countries people don't even bother to look what you have...it's very normal really.

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## Kyasarin

hmm the only time people saw me mindlessly drooling was when i was on Morphine.... I hated that stuff so much. It would make me incoherent, made it impossible to do anything but sit there, drool fer a while, then fall asleep. The way pot affects me? Makes me easily amused, takes my pain away, and makes me sleepy and hungry. My memory is fine thank you. Im not a stupid stoner. I passed my classes with great marks, not that i ever went to school stoned, that's just stupid.. But most of all, when im high, im almost pain free.. Do you know what it's like to be in so much pain you dont want to live?  

You can misuse ANY drug, illegal or not. There's a big problem with people abusing Percs and Oxys. I hate that shit, makes me sick. smoking pot doesnt make you a mindless idiot that stands there and drools.... If it does, yer smoking yerself stupid.

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## Lëzen

@Jorge: No offense, dude, but you've been watching WAY too many of those "above the influence" PSAs. Not only are they complete faggotry in the first place, but they distort the facts about marijuana to such a ridiculous degree that it's really not even worth my time to search for something ludicrous enough to compare them to.

The legalization of marijuana - among other illegal things that people will do anyway, such as prostitution - would be nothing but beneficial.

I think I actually used this as an example in some other thread a while ago, but hey. Why not reiterate? Italy has an extremely low rate of alcoholism, while Ireland has one of the world's highest. (There's truth in all stereotypes, it seems...) The reason for such a dramatic difference? Well, look at the facts.

In Italy, what we consider to be minors are allowed to drink. In Ireland, however, they have a high drinking age much like the one we have in the U.S. Because Italian kids are allowed to drink, their parents show them how to do so in moderation...i.e., safely. But because Irish kids are forbidden to drink, their parents can't show them how to do it safely - therefore, when they inevitably _do_ go drinking behind their parents' backs, they will most definitely do it the irresponsible way. The same rings true with many other illicit activities that people do behind the law's back.

Bottom line - if it's legalized, people can be educated on how to do it safely. The rates of stoned fucknuts rear-ending people left and right on the highway would drop drastically.

Not to mention the fact that the whole thing would be economically beneficial. The fact that Arnold Schwarzenegger _(briefly)_ considered legalizing MJ in CA for extra revenue is proof of that.

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## Taosaur

The only people I know who have suffered from chronic cannabis abuse have suffered more and harder from alcohol, meth and coke. The most dedicated pothead I know is also one of the most successful people I know, financially, and at my age most of my smoker friends are successful professionals. 

In my experience, serious devotion to pot only (not alcohol or harder drugs) is a harbinger of success and good taste, exactly opposite alcoholism.

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## guitarboy

> The "gateway effect" could also be said about milk. People start on milk before they move on to bourbon, right? Drug users are more likely to start with MJ because its cheaper, more accessible, milder, and less harmful than crack or heroin. For those whose quote statistics that "some high percentage of cocaine users also use marijuana," think about this: fewer than 1% of marijuana users use cocaine. Less than that for heroin.



I don't believe it's a gateway drug. If you do marijuana and are a logical person, you will see that it is a safer and cheaper way to get high then narcotics, cocaine, heroin, speed, and though it may not be cheaper, it's better then alcohol and cigarettes. It also helps curb addictions to heroin (opiates), though I think you might have said that. agreement with stated.

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## CoLd BlooDed

> While you are tripping on LSD, having sex with Cleopatra and traveling to Mars whilst being engaged in a seven year war with the God of thunder the sober people around you just see you lying on a couch drooling Very Happy and see how useless you are..



Wow, you are so fucking ignorant if you think that's what LSDs effects encompass.  Actually, you're ignorant regardless - your entire post was a pseudo-factual slop of 1970s propaganda.  



I can prove you wrong on just about every point you made; hell, I'm sure everyone here with a brain can.  Ah, but you probably think I'm drooling at my keyboard right now.

Also, to all you saying it's not a gateway drug... it really is, but not in the way the government says it.  Think about it: someone who's been hearing all this shit about how marijuana turns you into, essentially, an apathetic zombie lord (who'll end up fucking Cleopatra while traveling to Mars  ::roll::  ) from anti-drug commercials and campaigns and whatnot ends up smoking a joint.  None of this happens, nothing remotely CLOSE to happening.  His ambition isn't killed.  He enjoyed himself.  Now he's curious on what else the government is lying about.

That's more logical in my perspective.  To say weed directly leads to heavier things like cocaine and heroin is just straight up ridiculous.  

If anything, alcohol is the gateway drug.

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## Universal Mind

Marijuana should definitely be legal.  Freedom is a virtue, and prohibition is a horrific disaster.

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## Kyasarin

Very well said Cold Blooded, totally agree.

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## Universal Mind

> While you are tripping on LSD, having sex with Cleopatra and traveling to Mars whilst being engaged in a seven year war with the God of thunder the sober people around you just see you lying on a couch drooling Very Happy and see how useless you are..
> People like this will drop anything in their real life to return to those moments of ultimate pleasure; work, homework, family and every other ambition they could have fulfilled (becoming a doctor for example) since nothing gives them the same pleasure as the drug.



LSD is not addictive.  Do the research.  Also, I only wish it could be as good as you described it.  

If people want to drool on their couches and be happy, that's their business.  Do you value freedom?

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## DrunkenArse

> While you are tripping on LSD, having sex with Cleopatra and traveling to Mars whilst being engaged in a seven year war with the God of thunder the sober people around you just see you lying on a couch drooling Very Happy and see how useless you are.



Unlike the other people that have responded to this quote, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not a complete moron.  You're selling this stuff discretely right?  You just wanted to put out there that you have it in a non-comittal way. I've probably eaten more than my fair share of acid and I have NEVER run across anything like that. Sounds fun.  How much are you selling it for? AHEM!!!! how much is your "friend" selling it for?

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## Vampyre

So far, every argument I've seen against the use of pot could also be said about alcohol. There's nothing that makes it significantly worse except for tradition. I don't even smoke or do any drugs, but there really isn't a reason for it to be illegal. The "gateway drug" thing is a misconception. Smoking pot doesn't result in moving on to heavier drugs. I mean, sure, crack heads started out with pot, but that's because it's more available.

Think of yourself as a teenager. What would you be more likely to try: Pot or heroin? I don't know where to go for heroin, but I'm pretty sure I could find pot if I wanted it. So naturally, pot becomes the "gateway drug" simply because it's where everybody starts. Why would anybody want to spend more, risk more, and go through the hassle of finding heroin/cocaine/etc when they can settle their first high with cheap, easy-to-find pot?

Natural selection wins again lol

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## Ramos

> So far, every argument I've seen against the use of pot could also be said about alcohol. There's nothing that makes it significantly worse except for tradition. I don't even smoke or do any drugs, but there really isn't a reason for it to be illegal. The "gateway drug" thing is a misconception. Smoking pot doesn't result in moving on to heavier drugs. I mean, sure, crack heads started out with pot, but that's because it's more available.
> 
> Think of yourself as a teenager. What would you be more likely to try: Pot or heroin? I don't know where to go for heroin, but I'm pretty sure I could find pot if I wanted it. So naturally, pot becomes the "gateway drug" simply because it's where everybody starts. Why would anybody want to spend more, risk more, and go through the hassle of finding heroin/cocaine/etc when they can settle their first high with cheap, easy-to-find pot?
> 
> Natural selection wins again lol




I think there is a valid arguement that could be made for pot as a gateway drug, though not very strong.

At the same time if pot were sold in stores like cigarettes and alchohol and instead from Drug Dealers who have an inherent interest in you taking harder stuff than it would cease to be a "gateway drug".

Most people who smoke pot wouldn't even try the harder stuff anyway. (Meth, Crack,Heroin etc)

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## stasik50

> While you are tripping on LSD, having sex with Cleopatra and traveling to Mars whilst being engaged in a seven year war with the God of thunder



Really sounds more like Lucid Dreaming to me then Acid =/

But, personally, I think ALL drugs should be legalized. Even the strong drugs like Heroin and Meth. It's none of the governments business.

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## dajo

When I read Jorge's post I thought 'oh dear...' 
Very good to know that there are people with some sense  :smiley: 





> But, personally, I think ALL drugs should be legalized. Even the strong drugs like Heroin and Meth. It's none of the governments business.



While I do agree that it is none of the governments business, what I do to myself, 
it is not as easy as that. I think legalizing all drugs might actually lead to a safer 
use than prohibition does, so I am open to the idea. 
Last weekend I had my first experience with some guy that has taken too much 
GHB and I actually thought at some point that he would die in my arms right 
on the spot. Not a fun experience, let me tell you. 
My point being: Legalization should not mean a free pass to get as fucked up as you wished. 
(I'm not implying that is what you were saying, but it did urge me to make that statement)

And also in reference to your post: 
I think Timothy Leary said something along the lines: 
"I don't want the government to legalize drugs, because it is none of their goddamn business. 
I wouldn't want them to legalize masturbation, just so I could do it, either." 
 :smiley: 

Personally I am only interested in those substances that enhence the mind, 
not those that are rather there for a fun kick at a party, but that's just me! 
(As for Jorge's LSD description.. lol)

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## grasshoppa

it should be kept illegal because prohibition works...right?

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## ninja9578

Jorge, I want some of that LCD.  I've never had anything nearly that good  ::D:

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## Universal Mind

I think Jorge just made a ton of people suddenly want to do acid.

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## Jorge

=) People take things to literal here. I've smoked weed before, it's my take on the subject.

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## Odd_Nonposter

I don't know how to embed non-youtube videos, but I've found probably one of the best documentaries on the subject. It's over an hour and 45 minutes long, but watching it will leave you a changed person. It is most definitely worth watching

 The Union: The Business Behind Getting High

Spread it. Get it out. Make sure everyone you know sees it.

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## CoLd BlooDed

> =) People take things to literal here. I've smoked weed before, it's my take on the subject.



It wasn't necessarily taking you too literally, it was that your entire post was reminiscent of everything your government has told you about not doing drugs.  Basically, a sweeping generalization on every person who's ever smoked weed or eaten LSD.  Don't worry though, I didn't take anything you said seriously after your Cleopatra/Mars/Seven Years War with God statement.

And LOL.  Does the fact that you've smoked weed not make you a hypocrite?  Why would you have bothered writing all that shit up in the first place?  Has your ambition been killed?  Do you drool on yourself, living in your own imagination and subsequent reality because of the THC in your system?

If you were merely 'exaggerating,' you did a piss poor job.  Grow up, champ.

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## Exhalent

Haha it is funny watching everyone attack Jorge's post. Instead of typing up rants you could be smoking and having fun.  ::thumbup::

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## DrunkenArse

Who says that smoking and writing rants isn't fun?

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## Kuhnada29

No weed should NOT be legalized...and I'll tell you why. 

If it were to be legalized, the government would add additives to make it more addictive and toxic. Like cigarettes have nicotine in it. Weed is NOT addictive,  I don't care who told you that., only psychologically, meaning not PHYSICALLY addictive, but addictive in the sense like candy or sweets. You don't see people having withdrawal symptoms from sugar and sweets. This is a plant that grows "naturally" from the earth.

People that are depressed, are alcoholics, or junkies are like that because of their own thoughts. It's their own thoughts is why their in the situation their in. Whether they are conscious of it or not. Trust me I've sniffed dope a couple of times ( behind alcohol, alcohol believe it or not is the REAL gateway drug ). I never got addicted to it because I was aware of my thoughts and actions. I NOTICED that I kept thinking I wanted to try it again, but you take your mind off it, and viola. It all starts "IN YOUR MIND", like cancer, dis-ease, these things start off in your mind. People have survived Aids and cancer, because they go out and do the things that make them happy and at ease. 

It's that once you find out you do have these dis-eases, you start to stress. It starts in your mind. It's people that Didn't notice their thoughts ( talking about hard drugs here ) that they kept doing it, over and over again, making them physically addictive to it, meaning they HAVE to have it, or they will get really sick. In NO way, am I condoning drug usage. This is the not point. I'm saying the opposite right now, DO NOT try drugs. I'm just explaining HOW people get addicted to it. Think of law of attraction, and the video "the secret" to see what I'm getting at here.

Try to tell a depressed person that if they STOP thinking about whatever happened to them, no matter how traumatic, and start to focus on the here and the now...the good, then they will be depressed no more.They say they can't. To say this is saying you aren't in control of your own thoughts. Who is doing the thinking for you then?? or rather whose thoughts are those? They can't be yours if you can't control it.

Weed makes you self-conscious, meaning you notice, and are aware of what you say and do, every move you make, every thought that comes to your mind, your really AWARE of it. It reveals yourself to you. Quite the opposite of alcohol, where you don't care, or rather don't think about what you say or do, nor are you conscious of it. It can make you violent, aggressive, etc. 

Weed makes you peaceful, it's illegal because they don't want you to be peaceful. I have a good idea why this is necessary, but I won't go into that here. Have you noticed ANYONE who tries to spread peace in this world is killed ( think Malcolm X, Dr. Martin Luther King ). Your whole way of living is actually being controlled. From the music you hear, to the television shows you watch, to the things you like or dislike, even your subconscious thoughts( subliminal messages on television programs, internet spam. ) I really hate saying this, because everywhere I see this, and I see it in a lot of people. It is so true. This is isn't our true nature. We really are in a matrix, in a system of control, but you know I'm not "running for the hills" or have given up on life or tried to kill myself lol, because I actually enjoy this matrix while I'm in it. It's just that I'm aware that I AM in a system of control. I just really wanted to put this down rather than keeping it in my head lol  :smiley:

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## Jorge

> It wasn't necessarily taking you too literally, it was that your entire post was reminiscent of everything your government has told you about not doing drugs.  Basically, a sweeping generalization on every person who's ever smoked weed or eaten LSD.  Don't worry though, I didn't take anything you said seriously after your Cleopatra/Mars/Seven Years War with God statement.
> 
> And LOL.  Does the fact that you've smoked weed not make you a hypocrite?  Why would you have bothered writing all that shit up in the first place?  Has your ambition been killed?  Do you drool on yourself, living in your own imagination and subsequent reality because of the THC in your system?
> 
> If you were merely 'exaggerating,' you did a piss poor job.  Grow up, champ.




No actually it doesn't make me a hypocrite, someone with basic knowledge could understand that. Do you even know what a hypocrite is? Go check your dictionary and come back, because of all the THC you've come across has turned your memory into a piss poor job.

Now if I were to say no it's bad and still smoke weed...then my friend I would be a hypocrite. If that were the case.

Regardless of how my post sounded, I know my opinion and I believe it. Weed does slow you down and in my opinion more dangerous than Alcohol. Not health wise but judgment wise. Smoking messes up your judgment badly when the THC is in effect. If weed were legal more people would be smoking it, and in turn the more it would be on the road. Putting a large amount of people endanger. That is if weed were legal, that's the way I predict it would lead too.

There is 'negatives' when it comes to marijuana..you can't honestly believe it's 100% a positive if it was legalized. At least not for ingestion. 

What's your point in attacking my post? Honestly, does it make you feel better? Please, grow up kid.  ::lol::

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## DrunkenArse

> Weed does slow you down and in my opinion more dangerous than Alcohol. Not health wise but judgment wise. Smoking messes up your judgment badly when the THC is in effect. If weed were legal more people would be smoking it, and in turn the more it would be on the road. Putting a large amount of people endanger. That is if weed were legal, that's the way I predict it would lead too.



Dude, you need to check your facts and your tone.  The countries that have legalized weed have seen a decrease in the amount of use. Turns out that the best way to get teenagers to do something is to tell them that they're not allowed to. Who knew?

As far as weed being more dangerous than alchohol, I'll just laugh my ass off and leave it at that.

And you never got in touch with me about that killer acid you were talking about.  Am I not cool enough or something or did I make a mistake in giving you the benefit of the doubt?

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## Vampyre

> No weed should NOT be legalized...and I'll tell you why. 
> 
> If it were to be legalized, the government would add additives to make it more addictive and toxic. Like cigarettes have nicotine in it. Weed is NOT addictive,  I don't care who told you that., only psychologically, meaning not PHYSICALLY addictive, but addictive in the sense like candy or sweets. You don't see people having withdrawal symptoms from sugar and sweets. This is a plant that grows "naturally" from the earth.
> 
> People that are depressed, are alcoholics, or junkies are like that because of their own thoughts. It's their own thoughts is why their in the situation their in. Whether they are conscious of it or not. Trust me I've sniffed dope a couple of times ( behind alcohol, alcohol believe it or not is the REAL gateway drug ). I never got addicted to it because I was aware of my thoughts and actions. I NOTICED that I kept thinking I wanted to try it again, but you take your mind off it, and viola. It all starts "IN YOUR MIND", like cancer, dis-ease, these things start off in your mind. People have survived Aids and cancer, because they go out and do the things that make them happy and at ease. 
> 
> It's that once you find out you do have these dis-eases, you start to stress. It starts in your mind. It's people that Didn't notice their thoughts ( talking about hard drugs here ) that they kept doing it, over and over again, making them physically addictive to it, meaning they HAVE to have it, or they will get really sick. In NO way, am I condoning drug usage. This is the not point. I'm saying the opposite right now, DO NOT try drugs. I'm just explaining HOW people get addicted to it. Think of law of attraction, and the video "the secret" to see what I'm getting at here.
> 
> Try to tell a depressed person that if they STOP thinking about whatever happened to them, no matter how traumatic, and start to focus on the here and the now...the good, then they will be depressed no more.They say they can't. To say this is saying you aren't in control of your own thoughts. Who is doing the thinking for you then?? or rather whose thoughts are those? They can't be yours if you can't control it.
> ...



I thought this was leading somewhere good, until I got to the last paragraph. To me (and to be blunt) a conspiracy theorist's opinion is garbage.







> No actually it doesn't make me a hypocrite, someone with basic knowledge could understand that. Do you even know what a hypocrite is? Go check your dictionary and come back, because of all the THC you've come across has turned your memory into a piss poor job.
> 
> Now if I were to say no it's bad and still smoke weed...then my friend I would be a hypocrite. If that were the case.
> 
> Regardless of how my post sounded, I know my opinion and I believe it. Weed does slow you down and in my opinion more dangerous than Alcohol. Not health wise but judgment wise. Smoking messes up your judgment badly when the THC is in effect. If weed were legal more people would be smoking it, and in turn the more it would be on the road. Putting a large amount of people endanger. That is if weed were legal, that's the way I predict it would lead too.
> 
> There is 'negatives' when it comes to marijuana..you can't honestly believe it's 100% a positive if it was legalized. At least not for ingestion.
> 
> What's your point in attacking my post? Honestly, does it make you feel better? Please, grow up kid.



I've seen studies on the effects of legalizing drugs and prostitution. In all cases, there were no detrimental effects. If you want more, look up information on any of these places: Argentina, some states in Australia, Germany, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Macedonia, Mexico, Peru, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Uruguay, and Venezuela

All of those places have decriminalized marijuana use. I haven't looked at studies for each of them, but nonetheless all the studies I've seen have shown the same things.

----------


## Supernova

> Weed does slow you down and in my opinion more dangerous than Alcohol. Not health wise but judgment wise. Smoking messes up your judgment badly when the THC is in effect. If weed were legal more people would be smoking it, and in turn the more it would be on the road. Putting a large amount of people endanger.



I've never known anyone to be incapable of safe driving while high, at least ceratinly not like when drunk.  Unlike weed, alchohol negatively effects your motor skills/things stored in muscle memory.  I feel much safer with a high driver than with a drunk one.  When's the last time you've heard of someone crashing a car because they were high?  Compare that with crashes caused my alchohol.

----------


## Kuhnada29

Are you serious? Weed high driving is better than SOBER driving. I used to be high driving 30 mph in a 40 mph zone, and still thought I was going way too fast. Just cruising. I drive like a senior citizen when I'm high because I'm so careful with it.

Drunk driving is how my damn license got suspended  :Mad:

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> What's your point in attacking my post?



Because of drivel such as this:





> Weed does slow you down and in my opinion more dangerous than Alcohol. Not health wise but judgment wise. Smoking messes up your judgment badly when the THC is in effect. If weed were legal more people would be smoking it, and in turn the more it would be on the road. Putting a large amount of people endanger. That is if weed were legal, that's the way I predict it would lead too.



Are you serious?  More dangerous than ALCOHOL?  Forgive me, but never have I woken up the next morning after a heavy night of smoking thinking, _"Oh, God... I wish I hadn't of done that."_  I can't believe that _you_ believe that shit you just typed up.

I've driven stoned more times than I care to say (most recent being Tuesday!).  Replace those times with alcohol as opposed to marijuana, and I surely would've had a crash by now. 





> If weed were legal more people would be smoking it, and in turn the more it would be on the road. Putting a large amount of people endanger.



The only people that would be 'endanger' would be the ones who'd find another way to jeopardize their futures, whether it be alcohol, cigarettes, ecstasy, etc.  In case you find something to pick at in that sentence (by misunderstanding), the one's who have predisposed personalities to self-destruction.

Truly, I think it is your mind that is the more influenced here, friend, perhaps you should smoke a little more weed?

And don't call me a kid when you're sounding like ten of them.

----------


## Kuhnada29

Cold_Blooded, you can't really be mad at him for his views. He doesn't know the g-ment is corrupt, lies, are complete crooks, feed you bullshit on a daily basis. They force you to think inside of a box, and that's all you know. Because you will always think the "g-ment is good" and they tell you whats best for you, and you believe them because they control your life..and more importantly, and becoming very obvious, your rights as an American citizen. People look up to the g-ment like it's their daddy, and we're the children. Your mind is just basically conditioned and controlled.

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

I've had to drive while high. (It was also the first and only time I've been stoned.) *It wasn't fun at all*, especially in the horror that that vehicle was. A perfectly sober 50 yr. old can't drive it without stalling. Thankfully, I didn't wreck. But it was much more manageable than when I'm even slightly buzzed. I can't tie my shoes when I'm drunk.

*I still recommend that everyone watch this documentary:*  The Union: The Business Behind Getting High

----------


## Lëzen

^A total pothead friend told me this once: "Every time you get into your car while stoned, you basically have to learn how to drive again." Granted, there are people who are _such_ potheads that they've built up a tolerance and thus can do _anything_ while high (like my eldest sister...), but for those who _aren't_ huge potheads, take extreme caution if you're DUI.

Personally, I'd never take the risk, it seems like a rather pointless one at that. I don't see what's so bad about chillin' till you come down from your high to start your trip.

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## CoLd BlooDed

> "Every time you get into your car while stoned, you basically have to learn how to drive again."



Everytime?  Yeah right.  The first time, granted.

It's not even about building up a tolerance as much as knowing how to handle being stoned.  Just because you're high doesn't mean you can't do everyday things.  I don't even blaze that much anymore and I can function just as normally when I do.  Saying you need to be a gigantic pothead like it's a prerequisite is silly.

Note, I drive standard too.  And to be honest?  One of my favourite things to do while baked is drive... especially with the music up to a perfect level where I can sing.  I do highway driving to get back home, too, having to go over a bridge and everything.

(My driving record is clear)

----------


## dreamingofdreaming

I guess I should finally add to this thread.

As for the driving thing, I think what happens is when one is stoned you focus on things WAY too much. Everything deserves focus therefore you get distracted easily. Speed is not a factor, going to slow is. Missing a turn can happen but not dangerously, more in a sluggish way. I think talking on a cell phone is more dangerous because your only focused on the internal conversation and not on external factors. Bottom line, driving drunk is stupid and dangerous, driving stoned is silly and pointless.

Also, HardWired; your constant ranting about government conspiracy is really getting old. Most every post I see of yours contains info of the great scheme of brainwashing and how we are molded to work in a "perfect society" blah blah. Join the wagon, it's old news and doesn't need to be repeatedly repeated  :tongue2:  By going on about such conspiracies really just shows how you've succumbed to all that talk and put yourself in just another cluster of zombies among society...

Ok, back on topic. Weed is basically just a slap on the wrist nowadays anyways. Legal or not, as long as I don't get hassled for my little sack and pipe I'm a happy camper  ::D:

----------


## DeathCell

What 6 jackarses voted no???

Must not live in America... And if they do must not care about the constitution.

The right to pursue life liberty and the pursuit of yo drop that blunt!!!!

YOU ARE UNDER ARREST!





> @Jorge: No offense, dude, but you've been watching WAY too many of those "above the influence" PSAs. Not only are they complete faggotry in the first place, but they distort the facts about marijuana to such a ridiculous degree that it's really not even worth my time to search for something ludicrous enough to compare them to.
> 
> The legalization of marijuana - among other illegal things that people will do anyway, such as prostitution - would be nothing but beneficial.
> 
> I think I actually used this as an example in some other thread a while ago, but hey. Why not reiterate? Italy has an extremely low rate of alcoholism, while Ireland has one of the world's highest. (There's truth in all stereotypes, it seems...) The reason for such a dramatic difference? Well, look at the facts.
> 
> In Italy, what we consider to be minors are allowed to drink. In Ireland, however, they have a high drinking age much like the one we have in the U.S. Because Italian kids are allowed to drink, their parents show them how to do so in moderation...i.e., safely. But because Irish kids are forbidden to drink, their parents can't show them how to do it safely - therefore, when they inevitably _do_ go drinking behind their parents' backs, they will most definitely do it the irresponsible way. The same rings true with many other illicit activities that people do behind the law's back.
> 
> Bottom line - if it's legalized, people can be educated on how to do it safely. The rates of stoned fucknuts rear-ending people left and right on the highway would drop drastically.
> ...



This post is the winner, and Italy is the best! Go Italians and their ability to understand that kids learn from their parents..

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## Taosaur

Hehe, I was stoned when I learned to drive  ::D:  

I've known people who can't handle weed at all, and no one should jump behind the wheel the first time they get high, but for people who are familiar with and enjoy getting stoned, it's no impairment to driving whatsoever. You're more likely to get in an accident texting or fiddling with the radio.

----------


## dajo

> What 6 jackarses voted no???
> 
> Must not live in America... And if they do must not care about the constitution.



care to elaborate?

----------


## DeathCell

> care to elaborate?



America home of the free. Simple.

Anyone who thinks making a substance illegal, is not following the fundamentals of what our country was founded on.

And taousaur...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zou4F00Ic

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## Kuhnada29

> I thought this was leading somewhere good, until I got to the last paragraph. To me (and to be blunt) a conspiracy theorist's opinion is garbage.



lol...opinion? There is plenty proof of what I'm saying.

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## Supernova

heh, reminds me of a packet I got in school once about why our government wouldn't legalize it...just about every "fact" in it was the complete opposite of the truth  ::lol::

----------


## Vampyre

> lol...opinion? There is plenty proof of what I'm saying.



Sure there is. All conspiracies are the same. Speculative evidence at best with no substance. It's just people's creativity inventing an interesting plot that they like. But I can already expect that you'll just say I'm being controlled by the government. 

Whatever, I'm not gonna bother getting into it further. Conspiracy theorists are idiots with an imagination.

----------


## DrunkenArse

and whats more, he's done posting "evidence" because the critics don't believe it.

----------


## Kuhnada29

> I guess I should finally add to this thread.
> 
> Also, HardWired; your constant ranting about government conspiracy is really getting old. Most every post I see of yours contains info of the great scheme of brainwashing and how we are molded to work in a "perfect society" blah blah. Join the wagon, it's old news and doesn't need to be repeatedly repeated  By going on about such conspiracies really just shows how you've succumbed to all that talk and put yourself in just another cluster of zombies among society...



lol, I like that





> Ok, back on topic. Weed is basically just a slap on the wrist nowadays anyways. Legal or not, as long as I don't get hassled for my little sack and pipe I'm a happy camper



You'd be surprised how our legal system is, you'll get a "slap on the wrist" for having cocaine or a gun. They'll charge you with a "simple possession" charge for having a gram of cocaine or less..unbagged. Which is only a misdemeanor. If you've got a gun out in a public area, they'll charge you with "brandishing a firearm" illegal or not. Also a misdemeanor. Well here in Virginia

----------


## ninja9578

> lol, I like that
> 
> 
> 
> You'd be surprised how our legal system is, you'll get a "slap on the wrist" for having cocaine or a gun. They'll charge you with a "simple possession" charge for having a gram of cocaine or less..unbagged. Which is only a misdemeanor. If you've got a gun out in a public area, they'll charge you with "brandishing a firearm" illegal or not. Also a misdemeanor. Well here in Virginia



I'm sure it depends on the area.  Having a handgun in public here is a much more severe crime.  But having cocaine or pot is probably a lot less of a crime than it is there.

Drugs need to be controlled by the FDA.  There is nothing more dangerous than buying drugs that you have no idea where it came from, how strong it really is, or what it's laced with.

Cocaine... I don't think that should be legal.  It causes cardiovascular and neurological problems in the long term and can schizophrenic behavior in the short term.  I think dangerous substances like cocaine should still be banned.  It's also to turn into crack, which is nearly as addictive as nicotine.

Some of you do need to get your facts straight about marijuana though.  Contrary to popular belief, marijuana _is_ mildly addictive.  Both physically and psychologically.  It's rated as the 14th most addictive substance on earth.  Just above ecstasy, but way way below PCP and caffeine.  (Alcohol is #8 and nicotine is #1.)  THC is a strange substance when it comes to addiction however, because up to 50% of the population is nearly immune to it's addictive behavior, however, about 12% are very susceptible to it.

About 10% of people who use pot on a regular basis get addicted to it, but the withdrawl symptoms are mild at worst; most people would mistake the withdrawl as just a headache.  On the flip side, 100% of people who smoke nicotine on a regular basis get addicted to it, and withdrawl symptoms can be fairly severe.  Why are cigarettes legal when pot is not?  Tobacco grows in the same climate as marijuana, and grows insanely fast, it could be a major cash crop.

----------


## hellohihello

It's safer then Alcohol imo. More people would stay home and smoke instead of going out and getting wasted then driving home. Yes I know there are parties but people would still smoke alone. I mean who drinks alone?

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## Kuhnada29

> I mean who drinks alone?



homeless people? lol

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## Universal Mind

One thing that nobody can get around is that nobody deserves to go to jail over just marijuana.  Putting people in jail over it is cruel and outrageous.  It has got to stop.  If your point is that pot is bad for you, you have still not explained how jail for people who use it makes sense.  If you care so much about pot smokers, why do you want them in jail?

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## Lëzen

^Exactly what he said.





> Saying you need to be a gigantic pothead like it's a prerequisite is silly.



So is taking unnecessary risks. Whether you _think_ you drive completely the same whether stoned or sober is not the issue. The fact remains that your mind is still in an altered state when high. It's simple math, old boy:

sober mind ≠ stoned mind

Therefore...

sober mind + driving ≠ stoned mind + driving

I, for one, think I can drive just fine with some degree of sleep deprivation. But does that necessarily mean I _should_ stay up till 4:00 in the morning when I know I have to be somewhere at 6:00? _Probably not_, I'm guessing.

And one thing further to add. Assuming you're right - and there is, in fact, no difference between your sober driving and stoned driving - that's _your_ experience.

CoLd BlooDed's experience of stoned driving ≠ everybody else's experience of stoned driving

I'm not jumping on the "Ohh, marijuana slows down your reaction time so much that you'll get into an accident no matter what!" bandwagon. I'm just saying - there IS elevated risk. Maybe you think me a pussy for not taking enough risks in life, but hey. What one man calls a coward, another man calls smart.

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## Ramos

> I mean who drinks alone?



Alcoholics.

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## DrunkenArse

> ^Exactly what he said.
> 
> 
> So is taking unnecessary risks. Whether you _think_ you drive completely the same whether stoned or sober is not the issue. The fact remains that your mind is still in an altered state when high. It's simple math, old boy:
> 
> sober mind ≠ stoned mind
> 
> Therefore...
> 
> sober mind + driving ≠ stoned mind + driving



You're assuming that whatever domain that you're taking those quantities from lacks zero-divisors because that is about the ONLY condition under which the cancellation law holds.  :tongue2: 

You're also assuming that they have to be equal to be equally safe. To go back to the math analogy (that you brought into it by the way :wink2: ) you're assuming that vectors in this domain you have discovered have to be the same vector to have the same norm. the norm in this case being safety.

This algebraic structure has a very interesting properties.

EDIT: just saw you were using + notation. normally zero divisors would be applied to multiplicative notations but the idea is still the same....

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## Kuhnada29

> Cocaine... I don't think that should be legal.  It causes cardiovascular and neurological problems in the long term and can schizophrenic behavior in the short term.  I think dangerous substances like cocaine should still be banned.  It's also to turn into crack, which is nearly as addictive as nicotine.



believe it or not cocaine has medical uses, such as it being an anesthetic for surgeries and what not.



> Some of you do need to get your facts straight about marijuana though.  Contrary to popular belief, marijuana _is_ mildly addictive.  Both physically and psychologically.  It's rated as the 14th most addictive substance on earth.  Just above ecstasy, but way way below PCP and caffeine.  (Alcohol is #8 and nicotine is #1.)  THC is a strange substance when it comes to addiction however, because up to 50% of the population is nearly immune to it's addictive behavior, however, about 12% are very susceptible to it.
> 
> About 10% of people who use pot on a regular basis get addicted to it, but the withdrawl symptoms are mild at worst; most people would mistake the withdrawl as just a headache.  On the flip side, 100% of people who smoke nicotine on a regular basis get addicted to it, and withdrawl symptoms can be fairly severe.  Why are cigarettes legal when pot is not?  Tobacco grows in the same climate as marijuana, and grows insanely fast, it could be a major cash crop.



Where are you getting these "statistics" from. I've smoked weed almost on a regular base for like a week straight before..it's not physically 'addictive' at all, only psychologically, like a mild habit. 

I never had ANY withdrawal symptoms. At all. No one has ever 'died' from weed...ever...and you can't overdose on it, you'll eventually just pass out. Anyone who depends on weed probably use it for psychological reasons like repressed memories, or severe stress, etc.

...14th most addictive substance on earth?? LOL

----------


## DrunkenArse

> THC is a strange substance when it comes to addiction however, because up to 50% of the population is nearly immune to it's addictive behavior, however, about 12% are very susceptible to it.
> 
> About 10% of people who use pot on a regular basis get addicted to it, but the withdrawl symptoms are mild at worst; most people would mistake the withdrawl as just a headache.







> Where are you getting these "statistics" from. I've smoked weed almost on a regular base for like a week straight before..it's not physically 'addictive' at all, only psychologically, like a mild habit. 
> 
> I never had ANY withdrawal symptoms. At all.



 ::D:  

EDIT:  I might as well add that in my stoner prime I was smoking two joints before I got out of bed in the morning and couldn't function without it. I have definitely felt the withdrawal headache and know others who have as well. It feels like caffiene withdrawal.

On a side note, I'll add that "smoke two joints before I smoke two joints and then I smoke two more" is an infinitely recursive algorith along the first branch if you think about for a second.  It's buggy though because you never end up smoking two joints. A better algorithm is smoke two joints after you smoke two joints.

----------


## Kuhnada29

> EDIT:  I might as well add that in my stoner prime I was smoking two joints before I got out of bed in the morning and couldn't function without it. I have definitely felt the withdrawal headache and know others who have as well. It feels like caffiene withdrawal.
> 
> On a side note, I'll add that "smoke two joints before I smoke two joints and then I smoke two more" is an infinitely recursive algorith along the first branch if you think about for a second.  It's buggy though because you never end up smoking two joints. A better algorithm is smoke two joints after you smoke two joints.



PhilosopherStoned, how much were you paying a week for bud

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## DeathCell

People who smoke every day... drive. And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a high driver and one who is not.. At least an experienced smoker, not a pre-teen on his first joint.

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## DrunkenArse

> PhilosopherStoned, how much were you paying a week for bud



I wasn't  :wink2:

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## Kuhnada29

Ya know, I've hung out with friends that smoke 6 to 8 blunts in one day, and thought it was really ridiculous. Now I see why people that smoke that much are more often than not paranoid schizophrenics and burnouts. One blunt could last me at least a day or two. One of my friend-girls introduced me a to a gravity bong......one hit...and that was all she wrote. It was amazing how high i could get with one hit of bud.

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## DeathCell

> Ya know, I've hung out with friends that smoke 6 to 8 blunts in one day, and thought it was really ridiculous. Now I see why people that smoke that much are more often than not paranoid schizophrenics and burnouts. One blunt could last me at least a day or two. One of my friend-girls introduced me a to a gravity bong......one hit...and that was all she wrote. It was amazing how high i could get with one hit of bud.



I smoke all day every day, I'm never paranoid and this burnout only happens if I drink... and I call it a hangover.

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## Kuhnada29

Genesis 1:29

"And God said, Behold, I have given every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of the tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat"

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## stasik50

A little note on high driving...

I've ridden a bike while being high on a street with lots of traffic before. And amazingly, I'm still alive. That's because, when I was high, I thought to myself to be VERY careful. I suppose it will be the same with driving a car in my opinion. When high, you understand that you're not as quick to react, and you better be careful.

----------


## guitarboy

> Genesis 1:29
> 
> "And God said, Behold, I have given every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of the tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat"



GOD TOLD TO TO SMOKE MARIJUANA THAT'S WHY I DO IT!!

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## DrunkenArse

has anybody posted this here yet?  shame on you if not and shame on me if so. First minute and a half are on topic and brilliant.

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## dajo

I dialed down the smoking a lot the past three weeks. Have been smoking 
for quite a few years, the last two years on pretty much a daily basis. 
I wanted to see how I would be doing, or if it would bother me. 
(I didn't buy anything over the last weeks and only smoked maybe 
on 2 or 3 occasions when friends of mine had some) 

No withdrawel whatsoever, no problem, neither physiological nor psychological.
And also, I'm doing pretty well in life  :smiley:  
No lack of motivation, no burnout, no paranoia - lots of love though.

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## DeathCell

> has anybody posted this here yet?  shame on you if not and shame on me if so. First minute and a half are on topic and brilliant.



Hicks is always genius.

----------


## Exhalent

> Where are you getting these "statistics" from.
> ...14th most addictive substance on earth?? LOL



I am assuming he got the number from some place like"In Health" Magazine.

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

I don't really have a problem with where they've ranked it, but more drugs should have been included on the list. Under "heroin," they should have said something on the order of "opiates including morphine, fentanyl, methadone, etc." The four below it are all serotonergic hallucinogens, which a person builds a tolerance to very rapidly. 21/100 is quite a low score in comparison to caffeine, which is almost three and a half times higher.





> Marijuana's role as a potential "gateway" drug has been debated for years but no evidence exists that confirms this "gateway theory." On the other hand, no evidence exists that _disproves_ this theory.



(God that was a bitch to type by hand. It wouldn't let me copy-paste.)

I just wanna say that lack of disproof does not mean that a theory is true. As I said before, the "gateway theory" can be applied to any substance as long as a lot of people use it before moving on to something more harmful. By that definition, milk is the gateway to bourbon. 
Edit: If the only way to get coffee was through the same channels that handled crack cocaine, coffee would be considered a "gateway mug," (bad pun intended) wouldn't it?

Edit: Pageget!

----------


## Universal Mind

Hell yeah.  Excellent points, Odd_Nonposter.  You just blew the "gateway drug" argument right out of the water.

----------


## Xaqaria

> Sure there is. All conspiracies are the same. Speculative evidence at best with no substance. It's just people's creativity inventing an interesting plot that they like. But I can already expect that you'll just say I'm being controlled by the government. 
> 
> Whatever, I'm not gonna bother getting into it further. Conspiracy theorists are idiots with an imagination.



Actually, all conspiracies are only the same in that they involve two or more people conspiring to do some usually illegal or nefarious activity. The strange way in which the term conspiracy has become synonymous with "crazy unsubstantiated theory" in some people's minds is very similar to the way that the term Unidentified Flying Object has come to mean "Aliens" in some people's minds.

I have to say, making pot legal does have it's down side. All of your friends who sell a little weed to make a quick buck would be out of luck. The Government would start to control it, and changes would creep in. Anyone who has ever smoked government weed knows that it is some of the strongest shit out there and is a lot more likely to make you a paranoid wreck. There are plenty of ways that the legalization of marijuana would be a good thing, but there is also plenty of ways that it could be bad too. I'll just stick to my middle way of calm detachment and see what happens.

----------


## DeathCell

Grow it yourself when it's legal... The "government" weed thing is such bullshit.

----------


## Vampyre

> Actually, all conspiracies are only the same in that they involve two or more people conspiring to do some usually illegal or nefarious activity. The strange way in which the term conspiracy has become synonymous with "crazy unsubstantiated theory" in some people's minds is very similar to the way that the term Unidentified Flying Object has come to mean "Aliens" in some people's minds.



Regardless, it should be obvious what I was getting at.






> I have to say, making pot legal does have it's down side. All of your friends who sell a little weed to make a quick buck would be out of luck. The Government would start to control it, and changes would creep in. Anyone who has ever smoked government weed knows that it is some of the strongest shit out there and is a lot more likely to make you a paranoid wreck. There are plenty of ways that the legalization of marijuana would be a good thing, but there is also plenty of ways that it could be bad too. I'll just stick to my middle way of calm detachment and see what happens.



I know people who make quick bucks by selling cigarettes. If pot was legal, they could sell it too and make even more money.

As for government control ... I'm guessing people would pay more attention and protect the natural herb after what's been stuffed into cigarettes.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> So is taking unnecessary risks. Whether you think you drive completely the same whether stoned or sober is not the issue. The fact remains that your mind is still in an altered state when high. It's simple math, old boy:
> 
> sober mind ≠ stoned mind
> 
> Therefore...
> 
> sober mind + driving ≠ stoned mind + driving



It's not that I _think_ I drive completely the same, it's that I _know_.  How many friends do you think I've driven with when I was stoned?  And how many friends have thus told me how reputable my driving was?  My own _mother_ doesn't even notice the difference (without her consent and/or knowledge, too) when I drive high.  I wouldn't be stupid enough to drive if I considered myself unsafe.  I don't even own my own car.

I might be in an 'altered' state, but please tell me what an 'altered' state is when it comes to weed.  Am I hallucinating?  I don't know why you can't accept that some people can act beyond the guise of marijuana (going on with your life as normal).  I couldn't when I was younger, but that's because I was inexperienced.  How many years have you been smoking, anyways?

As for 'unnecessary risk,' you could call smoking weed in general an unnecessary risk.





> I, for one, think I can drive just fine with some degree of sleep deprivation. But does that necessarily mean I should stay up till 4:00 in the morning when I know I have to be somewhere at 6:00? Probably not, I'm guessing.



You seriously compare driving stoned to driving sleep deprivated?   ::roll:: 





> And one thing further to add. Assuming you're right - and there is, in fact, no difference between your sober driving and stoned driving - that's your experience.
> 
> CoLd BlooDed's experience of stoned driving ≠ everybody else's experience of stoned driving



I never said it did with _everybody_ else.  It's just like I never said everybody deserves to be smoking weed in the first place, simply because some people (according to ninja, 12% or so) can't handle it.  My stance is the same with driving.  _My_ experience just goes to show that there are others out there who can drive just as well as I can under ze influence.  For every ten people I know who CAN drive stoned, I know one person who can't.





> I'm not jumping on the "Ohh, marijuana slows down your reaction time so much that you'll get into an accident no matter what!" bandwagon. I'm just saying - there IS elevated risk. Maybe you think me a pussy for not taking enough risks in life, but hey. What one man calls a coward, another man calls smart.



Why would I think you're a pussy?  The only thing I can derive from everything you said there is that you're not confident enough in yourself when you're high to carry out everyday activities, which is understandable.  I wasn't when I was younger, either.

Obviously there's an elevated risk, but there's an elevated risk in smoking pot and becoming psychologically addicted, too.

----------


## DeathCell

Their is an elevated risk of death in life...

----------


## Black_Eagle

I have a lot of experience on this issue.

My father is an alcoholic and is an user of chewing tobacco. My former stepfather is a marijuana addict and smokes cigarettes.

My father's alcoholism has been extremely detrimental to me and my family's well-being and has caused us all very much emotional distress. He is a great, successful person when he is sober, but the alcohol turns him bad. If I could choose between the two, I would rather his alcohol usage be replaced with marijuana.

I was completely in the dark about my former stepfather's marijuana habit right up until the divorce. Only after I learned did I recognize several clues. I used to come home after school and find him with a big wide grin and bloodshot eyes watching Cheech and Chong. His habit would not have been a bother to me at all, I really liked my stepfather and would have accepted him. However, he got fired one day when his boss caught him smoking pot on the job and my mother said that he never wanted to do anything because was succumbing to the addiction.

On driving while high: I used to ride to school every day with a hardcore pothead and he drove great. DuB told me once in chat that at first you drive terrible, but you get the hang of it fast.

----------


## dreamingofdreaming

> . I used to come home after school and find him with a big wide grin and bloodshot eyes watching Cheech and Chong..



Haha I lol'd.

This is what I mean people, pot makes you silly and at times get stuck to a couch. Alcohol makes you crazy and at times makes you want to beat someone with a couch....

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> My father's alcoholism has been extremely detrimental to me and my family's well-being and has caused us all very much emotional distress.



Hear, hear.  Fuck alcoholic fathers.

----------


## Adam

> Where are you getting these "statistics" from. I've smoked weed almost on a regular base for like a week straight before..it's not physically 'addictive' at all, only psychologically, like a mild habit. 
> 
> I never had ANY withdrawal symptoms. At all. No one has ever 'died' from weed...ever...and you can't overdose on it, you'll eventually just pass out. Anyone who depends on weed probably use it for psychological reasons like repressed memories, or severe stress, etc.
> 
> ...14th most addictive substance on earth?? LOL



You clearly didn't read his post..... _"THC is a strange substance when it comes to addiction however, because up to 50% of the population is nearly immune to it's addictive behavior, however, about 12% are very susceptible to it."_




> America home of the free. Simple.



LOL

----------


## dajo

> This is what I mean people, pot makes you silly and at times get stuck to a couch. Alcohol makes you crazy and at times makes you want to beat someone with a couch....



Depends what kind of person you are.

----------


## DrunkenArse

Personally, I get intellectual when stoned and silly when drunk. I have noticed that her generalization is a pretty good one though, with on emphasis on somtimes for the whole beligerant drunk thing.  I probably get more beligerant verbally when stoned just because I tolerate stupidity even less well than I do when I'm straight.

----------


## dreamingofdreaming

Yes, it does depend on what kind of person you are, I was making an obviously broad generalization. I, for one, don't care to sit on the couch and zone out when I'm stoned, I'm active, creative and love being outside. 

The point I was getting at is if one person smokes 3 joints in 1/2 an hour and another person takes 3 doubleshooters in 1/2 an hour - who do you think would be more capable/willing to start a violent ruckus?

----------


## DrunkenArse

The stoner would be more capable of doing it. The drunk would be more willing, nine times out of ten.

----------


## dajo

Alrighty  :smiley:  I totally agree.

----------


## Lëzen

> You seriously compare driving stoned to driving sleep deprivated?



Well whenever I light up, I immediately get sleepy - _heavily_ so - thus the comparison. 

Although that's my own personal experience...shame on me for generalizing about other people's experiences based on my own.  :tongue2: 

Lëzen's experiences with weed ≠ everybody else's

My bad, peeps.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

Hell yeah, the burnouts used to happen to me intensely back in the day, and those were SHIT.  I don't think I'd ever try driving if I got that tired on a regular basis.  Fortunately I'm far past that stage; I rarely even get burnt out anymore... usually I get baked/really baked and then fade out into full-blown sobriety.  There is no 'going into the red' for me anymore.

I can understand where you're coming from though.

----------


## dajo

On a different forum I am having a discussion about drugs 
and it's about the long term and health effects of mariuhana. 

I'm looking for studies right now, so if you have any good ones, 
please post  :smiley:

----------


## DeathCell

> On a different forum I am having a discussion about drugs 
> and it's about the long term and health effects of mariuhana. 
> 
> I'm looking for studies right now, so if you have any good ones, 
> please post



http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/con...ent=a911211653

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0417193338.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...501729_pf.html

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/hscout/2...out625697.html

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study...rug-12116.html

----------


## dajo

Thanks. 

And welcome on the right side of the argument: 
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle_...ated_people_ar

----------


## DeathCell

Been fighting for a long time... Soon!

----------


## guitarboy

> You clearly didn't read his post..... _"THC is a strange substance when it comes to addiction however, because up to 50% of the population is nearly immune to it's addictive behavior, however, about 12% are very susceptible to it."_
> 
> 
> LOL



Still think it is not a physical addiction. It's like masturbating or going on the internet; texting and porn viewing.

----------


## stasik50

> Still think it is not a physical addiction. It's like masturbating or going on the internet; texting and porn viewing.



I am sort of the same mindset as you.

----------


## Kael Seoras

Drugs are the American Nightmare.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Drugs are the American Nightmare.



I think those kids were doing drugs all the time so they could numb themselves from that AWFUL 80's pop.  

WTF did Judd Nelson and Burt Reynolds have to do with anything in that?  Their part is really random and bizarre.

----------


## Kiza

They did it because they were on so many drugs.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

I find it funny how Jorge ran away after being corrected by just about everybody else on this thread.

_Imagines a child running away, hands clasped over ears, shouting "My virgin ears!"_

----------


## Kyasarin

Did he slink away? .. I stopped watching this thread after a while >.>

----------


## Jorge

> I find it funny how Jorge ran away after being corrected by just about everybody else on this thread.
> 
> _Imagines a child running away, hands clasped over ears, shouting "My virgin ears!"_





For what purpose should I even come back? Our views don't agree, not like it's anything else but a waste of time to debate. My opinions posted as the title of the thread asked. Not wasting anymore of my time.

----------


## Kael Seoras

> I think those kids were doing drugs all the time so they could numb themselves from that AWFUL 80's pop.  
> 
> WTF did Judd Nelson and Burt Reynolds have to do with anything in that?  Their part is really random and bizarre.



I have no idea...yea it is bizarre, just random, unnecessary commentary. I kind of feel bad for them, they weren't even playing actual characters  ::?: 

Megan Follows/Anne of Green Gables looks like she's having fun playing the crazy teenager though  ::lol::  That kitchen scene...those parents were such idiots. And all the Mom can do is declare, "I need a valium."

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> For what purpose should I even come back? Our views don't agree, not like it's anything else but a waste of time to debate. My opinions posted as the title of the thread asked. Not wasting anymore of my time.



That, and you're afraid of being proven wrong.  Which you already have been by numerous people.  :There, there: 

Bye!  ::makeitstop::

----------


## Michael

legal or not, my life stays the same. until i get busted, arrested, and have to pay the state money to support the pigs salary, then i'll be here bitchin.

----------


## Jorge

> That, and you're afraid of being proven wrong.  Which you already have been by numerous people. 
> 
> Bye!



Actually nothing has been proven, quit trying to make yourself feel good by trying to prove me wrong on a forum. Lame.. ::lol::

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Actually nothing has been proven, quit trying to make yourself feel good by trying to prove me wrong on a forum. Lame..



Your description of the effects of LSD was so far from any sort of reality as to be downright laughable. Can you at least admit that?

----------


## Jorge

> Your description of the effects of LSD was so far from any sort of reality as to be downright laughable. Can you at least admit that?



Bro, it's common sense...it was an exaggeration.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> quit trying to make yourself feel good by trying to prove me wrong on a forum.



Trying to feel good and trying to enlighten the horribly ignorant and propoganda-sponge that you are are two completely different things.  





> Bro, it's common sense...it was an exaggeration.



In poor taste.  Your exaggeration made you come across as someone who has no sense of the drug world besides what you see from the drug-addicted homeless and the government.  It reflects your immaturity and your lack of reasoning.  It was the LSD 'exaggeration' that made your entire post incredibly moot.

There is no valid argument for marijuana not being legal.  I am not arguing for or against, I have my opinion.  The only reason why I'm still posting is because it just horrifies me when I see people without their _own_ valid opinions, soaking up everything their Christian buddies, teachers, and anti-drug advertising tells them.  "Weed kills your ambition."  Wow, where have I heard that one before?  Grow a spine and instead of relying on other people to base your information from, venture out and take your own risks (I strongly suggest fucking Cleopatra then traveling to Mars where you wage a Seven Years War with God).

Or even better, since your principles will stop you from getting your own experience, quit talking completely until you have.

----------


## Jorge

> Trying to feel good and trying to enlighten the horribly ignorant and propoganda-sponge that you are are two completely different things.  
> 
> 
> 
> In poor taste.  Your exaggeration made you come across as someone who has no sense of the drug world besides what you see from the drug-addicted homeless and the government.  It reflects your immaturity and your lack of reasoning.  It was the LSD 'exaggeration' that made your entire post incredibly moot.
> 
> There is no valid argument for marijuana not being legal.  I am not arguing for or against, I have my opinion.  The only reason why I'm still posting is because it just horrifies me when I see people without their own valid opinions, soaking up everything their Christian buddies, teachers, and anti-drug advertising tells them.  "Weed kills your ambition."  Wow, where have I heard that one before?  Grow a spine and instead of relying on other people to base your information from, venture out and take your own risks (I strongly suggest fucking Cleopatra then traveling to Mars where you wage a Seven Years War with God).
> 
> Or even better, since your principles will stop you from getting your own experience, quit talking completely until you have.





Trying to enlighten me?  ::lol::

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> Trying to enlighten me?







> your immaturity



 ::roll::

----------


## Kyasarin

Now now, i think we know where both of you stand. There's no need really to keep arguing is there ^_^"

----------


## Jorge

> 





What's immature is you attacking me and my views on a forum when it's not only unnecessary but pointless. The only thing that needs '_enlightenment_ is your temper tantrums, while others civilly debate, you run around in circles aggressively saying _" I'm right! Your opinion is wrong! "_ While constantly *trying* to prove yourself in an immature childish way.

Regardless if my view is right or wrong.

You are the one acting immature.

----------


## Kyasarin

Jorge by continuing and not letting it go, you are being immature. Just let it go, agree to disagree

----------


## Black_Eagle

> What's immature is you attacking me and my views on a forum when it's not only unnecessary but pointless. The only thing that needs '_enlightenment_ is your temper tantrums, while others civilly debate, you run around in circles aggressively saying _" I'm right! Your opinion is wrong! "_ While constantly *trying* to prove yourself in an immature childish way.
> 
> Regardless if my view is right or wrong.
> 
> You are the one acting immature.



Jorge, in case you haven't noticed, this is a discussion forum. For _discussion_. When you come in and make any claim whatsoever, you should be expect for someone to question you and demand backing for your claim. Generally when someone can't provide backing, they either get personal, back down and consider the other view, or back down and reject whatever was said by the opposition. 

If you can provide a perfectly logical, scientifically backed reason on your views about drugs, then Cold Blooded would have no choice but to go sit in his place.





> Now now, i think we know where both of you stand. There's no need really to keep arguing is there ^_^"



*DISCUSSION FORUM!!*

----------


## Jorge

> Jorge by continuing and not letting it go, you are being immature. Just let it go, agree to disagree



Understandable.





> Jorge, in case you haven't noticed, this is a discussion forum. For _discussion_. When you come in and make any claim whatsoever, you should be expect for someone to question you and demand backing for your claim. Generally when someone can't provide backing, they either get personal, back down and consider the other view, or back down and reject whatever was said by the opposition. 
> 
> If you can provide a perfectly logical, scientifically backed reason on your views about drugs, then Cold Blooded would have no choice but to go sit in his place.
> 
> 
> 
> *DISCUSSION FORUM!!*





I agree, it's just annoying when it's not in a civil way. I did nothing wrong, but yet I was the one flamed. Regardless, I'm done here.

----------


## Universal Mind

Okay, let's give Jorge a break.  He got a bunch of people riled up by mischaracterizing LSD, but he didn't exactly try to get anybody locked up.  He didn't realize that falsely dogging LSD here is like going to a thrill sports website and saying skydiving makes people fly up and hit ceilings.  A lot of people who haven't done the stuff have his conception of acid because it is what is taught by the drug war crazies, which most Americans are.  I think he's got the picture now.  Let's give peace a chance.

----------


## khh

I just read an article on cannabis smoking (Sorry, it's in Norwegian, but I think there's a link to an english site at the bottom) stating that cannabis smoking is probably more likely to give you cancer than tobacco smoking.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I just read an article on cannabis smoking (Sorry, it's in Norwegian, but I think there's a link to an english site at the bottom) stating that cannabis smoking is probably more likely to give you cancer than tobacco smoking.



I have no idea what those words mean.  Can you tell us how they figure?  What is their argument?  Also, does it name one person who has ever gotten cancer because of marijuana smoking?  Maybe somebody has, but I have never heard of it.

----------


## khh

> I have no idea what those words mean.  Can you tell us how they figure?  What is their argument?  Also, does it name one person who has ever gotten cancer because of marijuana smoking?  Maybe somebody has, but I have never heard of it.



It doesn't name anyone in particular, but it's based on a new method of evaluating how likely something is to mutate your cells. It also mentions that you tend to draw the smoke deeper into the lungs, causing more strain. They have problems finding real-world numbers, as people who smoke cannabis generally also smoke tobacco. Here's the english link. I'm not sure if it says anything much. That would of course compromise the study.

----------


## ninja9578

> I have no idea what those words mean.  Can you tell us how they figure?  What is their argument?  Also, does it name one person who has ever gotten cancer because of marijuana smoking?  Maybe somebody has, but I have never heard of it.



Almost all studies say that actually.  Marijuana may put as much as 50% more carcinogens in your body.  Different smoking methods filter out different things, so some are better than others.  Oddly enough, joints tend to be the best, I'm not sure how that works  ::?: 

I almost never smoke... I should find out if carcinogens stick with the thc when making brownies  ::?: 

Most people who get cancer also smoke cigarettes, and do so much more often.  I think that pot might cause cancer just as easily as cigarettes, the difference is that cigarettes are insanely addictive and pot isn't.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Almost all studies say that actually. Marijuana may put as much as 50% more carcinogens in your body. Different smoking methods filter out different things, so some are better than others. Oddly enough, joints tend to be the best, I'm not sure how that works 
> 
> I almost never smoke... I should find out if carcinogens stick with the thc when making brownies 
> 
> Most people who get cancer also smoke cigarettes, and do so much more often. I think that pot might cause cancer just as easily as cigarettes, the difference is that cigarettes are insanely addictive and pot isn't.



This huge difference is that pretty much nobody smokes 20-60 joints a day.  If I smoke ten joints in a week, I consider it a binge.

----------


## ninja9578

I know, that's what I said.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I know, that's what I said.



Oh, I thought you were just saying not being able to quit was an extra health hazard with cigarettes.  

I just realized I started the sentence with "this" instead of "the".  That was a typo, and it made the sentence sound snootier than what I was trying to say.

----------


## khh

> This huge difference is that pretty much nobody smokes 20-60 joints a day.  If I smoke ten joints in a week, I consider it a binge.



In the article I linked they say that three to four joints a day would be the equivalent of 20 or more cigarettes a day. Still, that's pretty much.

----------


## DeathCell

> In the article I linked they say that three to four joints a day would be the equivalent of 20 or more cigarettes a day. Still, that's pretty much.



You still don't feel it as much as you feel cigarettes with all that nasty stuff in their.. Trust.

----------


## khh

> You still don't feel it as much as you feel cigarettes with all that nasty stuff in their.. Trust.



That's possible. I have smoked neither cigarettes nor pot  :tongue2:

----------


## Verto

Doesen't Pot lead to brain damage after an (insert appropriate amount of years) use? Surely if the state knows this then they should be preventing people from taking a drug that they will regret when they are older and dare say a bit wiser? 

Presuming I'm correct in my first assumption, could someone please tell me why it is not the states job to protect us from a potentially harmful toxin? (No use of alcohol as a counter example please, its too easy. Lets get to the heart of the issue.)

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Doesen't Pot lead to brain damage after an (insert appropriate amount of years) use? Surely if the state knows this then they should be preventing people from taking a drug that they will regret when they are older and dare say a bit wiser?



Could you provide a souce for that?  The studies that I have seen show that there are no brain cells killed. It could throw off the relevant monamine systems in the same way that nicotine and caffiene do but there you go. Are they illegal?  At anyrate, that kind of damage is just a result of the receptors getting less sensitive and they regain sensitivity in a few months. Assuming that effect occurs, which it probably does.





> Presuming I'm correct in my first assumption, could someone please tell me why it is not the states job to protect us from a potentially harmful toxin? (No use of alcohol as a counter example please, its too easy. Lets get to the heart of the issue.)



Does ease of using a point detract from its validity? This is news to me. I could have sworn it was a good sign that you had a strong point.

At any rate, that's a highly contentious point. I would say no, it is not the states responsibility to protect us from known toxins. That is our own choice and the state lacks the authority to prevent me from doing anything that does not _directly_ harm another. It is the states responsibility to protect me from _environmental_ toxins and toxins in consumer products that are _not clearly labeled_ or _otherwise identified_ as being toxic. 

But this isn't really a thread to discuss the virtues of left libertarian vs. right libertarian vs. classical libertarian thought. Hence back to alchohol as a quick, easy and _valid_ example of the hypocrisy of current ganja laws.

----------


## Supernova

wow, I legitimately lol'ed after reading the above post.  So you assume everyone that smokes pot are young foolish people?  And that the state is actually interested in protecting us from potentially harmful toxins, while legal cigarettes contain hundreds of dangerous chemicals?
Or was that post just a joke?

EDIT: damn, beat me to it
You're right, though.  Alcholol really is a very valid and relevent argument.

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> Doesen't Pot lead to brain damage after an (insert appropriate amount of years) use? Surely if the state knows this then they should be preventing people from taking a drug that they will regret when they are older and dare say a bit wiser? 
> 
> Presuming I'm correct in my first assumption, could someone please tell me why it is not the states job to protect us from a potentially harmful toxin? (No use of alcohol as a counter example please, its too easy. Lets get to the heart of the issue.)



Please tell me that this post was made not to be taken seriously, or was intended to troll the thread.

The original study which concluded that marijuana smoke causes brain damage did not follow the procedure that it claimed to. Years afterward, the scientists who conducted the study admitted what they actually did. Rather than exposing their test subjects (monkeys) to short bursts of MJ smoke over a long period of time, (to simulate a chronic user) they suffocated them for five minutes straight with nothing but smoke (meaning no oxygen.) The brain starts taking damage after three minutes of oxygen deprivation. It wasn't anything in the marijuana that caused the damage: it was the suffocation. A user could easily circumvent this by not holding smoke in until it became uncomfortable.

Later studies using the methodology claimed in the original report have not been able to replicate their results. In fact, some studies have found that THC attacks brain cancer cells, while leaving normal ones untouched. 


The alcohol vs. cannabis argument is very valid. Why allow something which is definitely proven to cause damage to most, if not all living cells, is very addictive, and extremely intoxicating, but ban something that is much, much milder in terms of all three?

----------


## Verto

Its not really trolling, I was just interested on what the counter was to that point. Now I know. So we can all be happy and not be accusing anyone of trolling.  :smiley:

----------


## DrunkenArse

Verto, is the a specific counter point that you were hoping for?  Since you implied that we have somehow been missing the real issue, what exactly do you think that it is?

----------


## Taosaur

> Almost all studies say that actually.  Marijuana may put as much as 50% more carcinogens in your body.  Different smoking methods filter out different things, so some are better than others.  Oddly enough, joints tend to be the best, I'm not sure how that works



The joints make sense, in that the entire unsmoked portion of the joint is filtering particulate matter out of what you inhale, most likely becoming a denser and therefore more effective filter the closer you get to the end. I'm not sure if the benefit persists if you then drop the roach in a pipe and smoke it to ash  ::D:  Other methods such as glass pipes and bongs may seem less harsh, but that's because the smoke is cooled, not filtered. 

I wonder if these studies included vaporizers?

----------


## Verto

Well if cannabis were a harmful drug, why should it be legal in your opinion? If it were harmful, do you not think its the states job to protect us? Its pretty much a moot point, if it doesn't cause any harm. I must confess I'm not very knowledgeable on the topic as I haven't got much personal interest in it.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Well if cannabis were a harmful drug, why should it be legal in your opinion? If it were harmful, do you not think its the states job to protect us? Its pretty much a moot point, if it doesn't cause any harm. I must confess I'm not very knowledgeable on the topic as I haven't got much personal interest in it.



People should have a right to do things that are bad for them.  Should it be illegal to not exercise?  Should it be illegal to eat too many calories in a day?  Should it be illegal to not go to college?  Should it be illegal to get less than 7 hours of sleep in a night?  People should monitor their own health, and the government should make sure the necessary information is out there.  If the government has ad campaigns where they alert the public about the downsides of pot, that's great.  However, putting people in prison for possessing it and selling it is a trampling on rights and is something that does not qualify as protection, especially considering the underground market violence that results from it.  It is nosy fascism.

----------


## DeathCell

> Doesen't Pot lead to brain damage after an (insert appropriate amount of years) use? Surely if the state knows this then they should be preventing people from taking a drug that they will regret when they are older and dare say a bit wiser? 
> 
> Presuming I'm correct in my first assumption, could someone please tell me why it is not the states job to protect us from a potentially harmful toxin? (No use of alcohol as a counter example please, its too easy. Lets get to the heart of the issue.)



It's not a harmful toxin!

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...the-brain.html

http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com...lth_news.shtml

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1016083817.htm





> Xia Zhang, an associate professor in the U of S neuropsychiatry research unit, led the team that tested the effects of HU-210, a potent synthetic cannabinoid similar to a group of compounds found in marijuana. The synthetic version is about 100 times as powerful as THC, the compound responsible for the high experienced by recreational users.
> 
> The team found that rats treated with HU-210 on a regular basis showed neurogenesis – the growth of new brain cells in the hippocampus. This region of the brain is associated with learning and memory, as well as anxiety and depression.



The propaganda you've all learned, is the complete opposite of the truth.



And the way to get almost no carcinogens in your body is by eating the bud in some way or purchasing a vaporizer... Which steams the bud basically.

----------


## Black_Eagle

One question that's been on my mind about marijuana for awhile: How exactly does marijuana affect one's memory?

----------


## Supernova

I still have good memory.  It messes with it while you're high, but afterwards you can remember everything you normally can for most people I know

----------


## Universal Mind

> I still have good memory. It messes with it while you're high, but afterwards you can remember everything you normally can for most people I know



If I smoke it days in a row, it leaves my memory in a fog for a while.  It's mainly short term memory that gets screwed with, but long term memory can get blurry too.  When I am stoned and talking to somebody, I often stop while trying to make a point and have to ask what I was just talking about.

----------


## Koalaman

Yes, it should be legal like every other drug. People should be able to make their own choices as long as they don't harm others. If someone is drunk and kills another person while driving a car, only the driver should be blamed and not the alcohol. People who drive on alcohol are just stupid. If you want to ban something, ban stupid people instead.





> Well if cannabis were a harmful drug, why should it be legal in your opinion? If it were harmful, do you not think its the states job to protect us? Its pretty much a moot point, if it doesn't cause any harm. I must confess I'm not very knowledgeable on the topic as I haven't got much personal interest in it.



Even if it were harmful, it's not up to the state to protect us against ourselves. Only children should be protected against themselves, but this is what parents are already supposed to do. If you can't do that, then you suck as a parent and shouldn't have gotten children in the first place.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> One question that's been on my mind about marijuana for awhile: How exactly does marijuana affect one's memory?



My memory's as fine as it was before I started smoking.  Even while I'm baked my short term/long term very rarely gets foggy.

----------


## Koalaman

@CoLd BlooDed: I don't believe that your short-term memory remains unaffected.

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> @CoLd BlooDed: I don't believe that your short-term memory remains unaffected.



Maybe to him it does.

----------


## Black_Eagle

Is it possible that you wouldn't know what you had lost?

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

Oh, it's definately a possibility... but I always seem to be the one to nitpick the finest details out of memories long forgotten by friends and family.  I can recall just about everytime that I've been stoned, and not stoned.  I may forget things that I learned in school (and even then, not really, unless it was horribly uninteresting).

I blame it on my extremely photographic memory.  Anything that sticks out to me as significant is immediately ingrained... and anything insignificant (aka routine days of school, work, etc.) is filed away somewhere where I can still access if I think hard enough.

Believe it or not, but just because I smoke weed now and then doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to forget everything.  I am not every other stoner.

Now when I'm _drunk_...

----------


## Black_Eagle

Thing is, I've overheard some stoners talking about how they cut down on their pot smoking and they feel like their memory is returning. I'm wondering if they are just extremely incompetent anyway and are blaming the weed for their lack of focus and discipline.

Ehem, if there are any scientists reading this I think we could all benefit from a study on this aspect of marijuana. Surely second hand experience in the form of anecdotes is not enough to support either side of this question.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Oh, it's definately a possibility... but I always seem to be the one to nitpick the finest details out of memories long forgotten by friends and family. I can recall just about everytime that I've been stoned, and not stoned. I may forget things that I learned in school (and even then, not really, unless it was horribly uninteresting).
> 
> I blame it on my extremely photographic memory. Anything that sticks out to me as significant is immediately ingrained... and anything insignificant (aka routine days of school, work, etc.) is filed away somewhere where I can still access if I think hard enough.
> 
> Believe it or not, but just because I smoke weed now and then doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to forget everything. I am not every other stoner.
> 
> Now when I'm _drunk_...



What you are talking about is long term memory.  I remember crazy details about the distant past and recent times too, but things get blurrier if I'm in a pot phase. It's still mostly there.  What really goes to shit is short term memory.  I am talking about remembering things like what was happening thirty seconds ago.  If you are really stoned and having a conversation, can you recall how you got on the current topic?  That is something I often can't do.  If I stay away from a topic for more than ten seconds, I can't go back to it unless somebody else brings it back up.  That is what so many studies have said is majorly affected by pot. Short term memory is mostly back when I am sober again, but it takes weeks for it to really work right if I had been smoking days in a row or longer.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

During the high, it's a little different, but yes I can still recall what we were talking about ten, twenty, or thirty minutes ago.  Occasionally, and I really do mean _occasionally_, there will be a slight bump, a weak turbulence, in the conversation.  I will ask what we were talking about, I'll laugh, and then go on as normal.

It has never taken weeks for me to 'really work right,' though.  Maybe an hour or two.

----------


## DeathCell

> What you are talking about is long term memory.  I remember crazy details about the distant past and recent times too, but things get blurrier if I'm in a pot phase. It's still mostly there.  What really goes to shit is short term memory.  I am talking about remembering things like what was happening thirty seconds ago.  If you are really stoned and having a conversation, can you recall how you got on the current topic?  That is something I often can't do.  If I stay away from a topic for more than ten seconds, I can't go back to it unless somebody else brings it back up.  That is what so many studies have said is majorly affected by pot. Short term memory is mostly back when I am sober again, but it takes weeks for it to really work right if I had been smoking days in a row or longer.



Whats funny... is long before I smoked.. Whenever advertisements came onto television I always forgot what mindless show I was watching....


I also have the photographic long term memory that cold is talking about.
And in general my short term isn't that affected, though things of little importance are in one ear and out the other.

----------


## Supernova

> Surely second hand experience in the form of anecdotes is not enough to support either side of this question.



Actually, I think it really varies person to person, it depends on what you are like.  CB says he rarely forgets what he was talking about when he's high, meanwhile I do all the time.

----------


## Michael

weird... it doesnt mess with my memory at all. my memory is waay better than most non-stoners or druggies.

it does make me a little more lazy. thats about the only negative effect i get, besides lung damage.

not being high is when i feel negative effects. lol

----------


## derb

> America home of the free. Simple.



haha, yeah right. ive never been to a place where people are more controlled than in america. when i was living there my 18 year old sister was brought home in a riot van simply for being outside past six o'clock. 
not to mention the fact that america brought the fallacy that is cannabis prohibition to the world.

----------


## DeathCell

> haha, yeah right. ive never been to a place where people are more controlled than in america. when i was living there my 18 year old sister was brought home in a riot van simply for being outside past six o'clock. 
> not to mention the fact that america brought the fallacy that is cannabis prohibition to the world.



No kidding, but that isn't what America is supposed to be.

----------


## Supernova

> No kidding, but that isn't what America is supposed to be.



but it is, and has been for a long time.

----------


## DeathCell

> but it is, and has been for a long time.



Only as long as you remember, not that long. And it can and will change.

----------


## Supernova

> And it can and will change.



I sure hope so...

----------


## legalrights

I can understand why it should be legal for medical use, as it has several recognised medical purposes, but i am absolutely sick and tired of people saying marijuana has killed 0 people, and tobacco has killed 100000 people or however many people or alcohol has killed 80000 people.

i have a few things to say:

- if people smoked marijuana on the scale that people smoke cigarettes or get on the drink (which would probably happen if it was legalized), then there would be a similar amount of deaths.

- ok, nobody has died as a direct result of smoking marijuana, but i suppose nobody has died as a direct result of smoking cigarettes. im sure people die from long term lung problems of smoking marijuana. turns out most people who do weed also smoke cigs, so i guess you can just all blame that. consider this, it would be like having a ton more alcoholics running around.

- if alcohol was made illegal, i am almost certain it would be classified a soft drug, because way less people would do it, and therefore less deaths. this is much similar to marijuana. if marijuana were legal, more people would die from it and it would be classified as a hard drug.

im not saying dont smoke weed, im saying to the people who think it should be legalized, to screw your heads on properly, and recognise it will never be legalized.

although i wish it was legal without these problems and other social problems, it is best it remain illegal.

----------


## Universal Mind

No, masses of people would not suddenly start smoking 20-60 joints a day if pot were legalized.  Is that a problem in Holland?  No.  Vancouver?  No.  Even though pot is illegal here, people can and do get large quantities of it.  Why would the legality of those large quantities suddenly have those people smoking a quarter ounce or more a day? 

Why shouldn't people have a right to be unhealthy any way?  Do you want to ban high fat foods and refined sugar too?   

Also, by your argument, tobacco should be illegal.  Do you think tobacco should be illegal?

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> - if people smoked marijuana on the scale that people smoke cigarettes or get on the drink (which would probably happen if it was legalized), then there would be a similar amount of deaths.



And you say this... why? Portugal carries absolutely no penalty for MJ possession. There has been no rise in crime, and no rise in deaths. In fact, when Britain reclassified MJ, and Portugal decriminalized all drug use, use _dropped_, not increased. When the Netherlands started overlooking MJ sales, violent crime sank like a rock, so much that they are renting out prison space to other countries.





> if alcohol was made illegal



We tried that. It was a complete fuckup.

----------


## Supernova

> if alcohol was made illegal, i am almost certain it would be classified a soft drug, because way less people would do it, and therefore less deaths. this is much similar to marijuana. if marijuana were legal, more people would die from it and it would be classified as a hard drug.



You see, the thing you don't understand is that there wouldn't be some huge jump in use if it were made legal.  The people who want to use it, use it, legal or not.  There wouldn't be more people using it, and the people who do use it wouldn't start smoking enormous amounts like you predict.  As Odd_Nonposter noted, in countries where it has been made legal, use has dropped, not increased.

----------


## Universal Mind

Drug prohibition is a terrible idea.  That has been proven over and over.  





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone

----------


## DeathCell

We should ban Soda before we ban Marijuana....

Look at how fat this country is.

----------


## Black_Eagle

> I can understand why it should be legal for medical use, as it has several recognised medical purposes, but i am absolutely sick and tired of people saying marijuana has killed 0 people, and tobacco has killed 100000 people or however many people or alcohol has killed 80000 people.



Why is that? Those statistics make a lot of sense.





> - if people smoked marijuana on the scale that people smoke cigarettes or get on the drink (which would probably happen if it was legalized), then there would be a similar amount of deaths.



Wrong. The countries that have legalized everything for all age groups have seen the complete opposite happen. I'm sure someone else could help me with acquiring sources.





> - ok, nobody has died as a direct result of smoking marijuana, but i suppose nobody has died as a direct result of smoking cigarettes. im sure people die from long term lung problems of smoking marijuana. turns out most people who do weed also smoke cigs, so i guess you can just all blame that. consider this, it would be like having a ton more alcoholics running around.



More like 400,000 people die every year as a direct cause of cigarette smoking. You can nullify the effect of smoking by eating it marijuana instead.

Don't you dare equate alcoholism to marijuana addiction! You have no clue. I have an alcoholic father and a marijuana addicted former stepfather (been through two divorces). I would prefer it greatly if my real father was also a pot addict. 


Driving, overdosing, and long-term health effects are the main reasons why alcohol causes death.

I've been in a car wreck with my alcoholic father and driven with him countless times (when I was young I was too passive to say no). I don't know if you ever have, but it is extremely frightening. I used to drive with a guy everyday who smoked pot before, after, and while he was driving. He drove perfectly. Marijuana isn't like alcohol. You can control yourself and operate perfectly fine if you allow it. Sure you shouldn't drive while under the influence, but it isn't as bad as alcohol

It's virtually impossible to OD on smoking pot (nobody ever has) and several hundred people a year OD on alcohol. Enough said.

Marijuana does not cause any long-term effects aside from the harmful smoke. Like I said, this can be eliminated by eating it. Alcohol, however has a whole range of long-term negative effects including causing cancer, liver disease, and killing brain cells.





> - if alcohol was made illegal, i am almost certain it would be classified a soft drug, because way less people would do it, and therefore less deaths. this is much similar to marijuana. if marijuana were legal, more people would die from it and it would be classified as a hard drug.



Derp





> im not saying dont smoke weed, im saying to the people who think it should be legalized, to screw your heads on properly, and recognise it will never be legalized.



Or maybe you need to consider that you're the one with his head unscrewed.





> although i wish it was legal without these problems and other social problems, it is best it remain illegal.



Give me a good reason legalization would not remove more social problems than it creates.

----------


## CanceledCzech

Yes, it should. End of discussion.

Ah, fuck. You want some back-bone to this argument? All right.

Marijuana, while potentially having carcinogenic smoke, is still less harfmul than cigarettes and alcohol, which are both legal drugs in the U.S. (plus, you can just use a vaporizer for a no-smoke toke)

Legality won't make things much easier of medical marijuana smokers; companies can still discriminate. Except, if pot is legal, the "user" in question would likely have the right to sue the company.

If legal, scientists would be able to experienemt freely, and obviously, this would lead to a much better understanding of this plant.

And then there's the whole "hemp-debate". Granted, pot and hemp aren't the same thing; one is female and the other is male, respectively, thus giving then different properties. I'm not too learned on the issue of hemp, but if I recall, then I believe the issue was that it was "too close to marijuana", too related. Point is, if pot were legal, then you don't have this issue and we have an incredibly valuable natural resource.

Oh, and the other reason is that the legalization of this plant would boost the economy. Except Mr. Obama isn't going to do that anytime soon, is he?

Oh, and Bleagle....




> Give me a good reason legalization would not remove more social problems than it creates.



Weed mostly comes in through the gangs. You make it a legitimate business and then people can just go to their local 7/11 instead of the sketchy drug dealer on the street.

Er... Come to think of it, the legalization of weed won't get rid of gangs. Fuck, I'm don't even know which social problems weed causes. In my study of it, I sort of glossed over that part; my concern was more with the pharmacological and health effects more than anything...

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

Okay, I can see that there is some confusion as to what the differences are between hemp and marijuana. Here is my understanding of the cannabis plant so far:

Cannabis is a dioceous (sp?) plant, meaning that male and female structures are born on separate plants. Ash, sassafras, and ginkgo trees are examples of other dioceous plants. Most plants are monoceous (sp?), meaning that the plant is hermaphroditic. Corn and walnut trees are "imperfect" monoceous plants, meaning that male and female structures are contained in separate flowers. "Perfect" monoceous plants have both organs within the same flower. Apples, roses, soybeans, and dandelions are "perfect" flowering plants. 

Most cannabis plants flower as soon as they have 12 hours of darkness and 12 hours of light, regardless of size. I say "most" because there are some autoflowering varieties which flower based upon a given number of cell divisions. Cannabis plants also have "preflowers," structures which indicate what sex the plant is.

The psychoactive compounds in marijuana are contained mostly in the resin of the plant, which exists in the "trichomes" or hairs of the plant, and in the female seed pods.

Females are more desirable in the MJ industry because the flowers have more cannabinoids per dry weight of material. If unfertilized, the seed pods also fill up with resin. Males are still psychoactive, but yield less and cause female plants to decrease in yield. They are pulled when their preflowers show and have the psychoactive trichomes rubbed off and made into hash.

Under some circumstances, a female cannabis plant can turn hermaphroditic, however, all seeds that come from a hermaphroditic plant are female, with an increased chance of becoming a hermaphrodite. Male and "hermie" plants are undesirable because they cause a female plant to produce seeds instead of cannabis resin. Hermies are even less desirable because any future seeds have an increased chance of also being hermie.

Cannabis classification is a little bit iffy. What is known is that all plants in the Cannabis genus can interbreed. All Cannabis belongs to the species _Cannabis sativa_, but the species has several subspecies: _sativa, indica, and ruderalis._ Each subspecies has psychoactive varieties (marijuana), or "breeds," if you will. 

Hemp and some strains of marijuana both belong to the subspecies _sativa._ However, each is a different cultivar that has been selected for a different purpose, just like you have different breeds of dog, sheep, or cow. Psychoactive "marijuana" cultivars make terrible fiber and seed, but excellent medicine, and hemp vice versa. Just like a border collie and a french poodle, one can herd sheep, and the other is an apartment dweller, and each is not desirable for the others' purpose, but they can still interbreed and create something that isn't as good for either purpose. *To conclude, hemp and marijuana are the same species, but different breeds. One breed cannot be used for the same purposes as the other.*

Marijuana varieties are based upon the subspecies of origin. Sativa varieties are taller, have a headier, more "up" high, and are better suited to equatorial regions, but certain strains can be grown in more temperate latitudes. Indica varieties are shorter, bushier, and have a body "stone," where a person feels lazy and their thinking is somewhat fuzzier. Ruderalis is a loose term for marijuana that escaped cultivation in Europe and have a shorter, weedier growth habit. Their high is best described as "funky." Crosses of any of these have mixes of the traits that the parent plants did. A proprietary strain name is given to marijuana varieties that have been bred for given traits, such as yield, growth habit, type of high, etc., just like you have varieties of apple trees whose apples have been selected for different purposes. 

Hemp has been selected for two traits: fiber and seed. Fiber varieties grow very tall and are harvested before the flowers are pollinated, and seed varieties are shorter and somewhat bushier, and are allowed to pollinate and set seed. Some of the seed varieties have been selected for hermaphroditism, but dioceous varieties still exist.

If the establishment truly wanted the marijuana industry destroyed, they would make hemp legal. As I stated before, hemp is able to pollinate marijuana, making it close to worthless. The next generation from those seeds, however, is also worthless because the hempier, less psychoactive traits have been introduced into the marijuana line, not the other way around.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Er... Come to think of it, the legalization of weed won't get rid of gangs.



It would take more than legalizing weed.  If we legalized all drugs, that would knock out most of the gang problem we have now.  We have a gang problem these days just like we had one during alcohol prohibition.  The gangster element is so big, powerful, and influential here that it permeates the rest of society.  As a result, gangster ("gangsta") rap is gigantic and kids and young adults all over the country and the countries we influence think the gangster image is the coolest possible one.  Eminem and Snoop Dogg are practically gods of Western society, for example.  What comes with that social image?  Constantly asserting toughness and thinking you have to be violent over every misunderstanding that you end up in.  That is a social nightmare.  It is all coming from the war on drugs.

----------


## CanceledCzech

> It would take more than legalizing weed.



Indeed. Gangs are the only social problem I can think of that are associated with weed - and as we both know that isn't going away if Ms. Mary-Jane is no longer criminal.

----------


## DrunkenArse

It wouldn't be associated with weed anymore though.

----------


## Supernova

> As a result, gangster ("gangsta") rap is gigantic and kids and young adults all over the country and the countries we influence think the gangster image is the coolest possible one.



I know, doesn't it suck?  I feel like I have nothing in common with a great majority of my peers anymore.

----------


## DeathCell

It's not the music that causes these problems, it's the parents of the children. All day, Eminem, Nas, Snoop Dogg, they make rhymes and they make money... It's the parents that let them lead a life of "violence", this is no different than people blaiming Marilyn Manson and Doom for Columbine. 

Rap music is not the reason for the ills of our society, nor the cause of gang life.. It's a combination of Drugs being illegal and easily accessible and profitable along with parents non-existence in their children lives. And if they are in their lives less as a parent and authority figure and more as just a source of money...

Why aren't we blaming Scarface and Blow and other forms of entertainment that also glorifies or makes drugs and violence exciting for these problems? It's just easy to blame rap music. 

We control our futures, in more ways than one.

----------


## Universal Mind

> It's not the music that causes these problems, it's the parents of the children. All day, Eminem, Nas, Snoop Dogg, they make rhymes and they make money... It's the parents that let them lead a life of "violence", this is no different than people blaiming Marilyn Manson and Doom for Columbine. 
> 
> Rap music is not the reason for the ills of our society, nor the cause of gang life.. It's a combination of Drugs being illegal and easily accessible and profitable along with parents non-existence in their children lives. And if they are in their lives less as a parent and authority figure and more as just a source of money...
> 
> Why aren't we blaming Scarface and Blow and other forms of entertainment that also glorifies or makes drugs and violence exciting for these problems? It's just easy to blame rap music. 
> 
> We control our futures, in more ways than one.



I am not blaming rap for anything.  My point was that the war on drug has created a gangster culture.  The music is not the problem.  It is a result.  It is evidence of something very sick. The violent mentality comes from the culture that brings the music, not the music itself, although maybe some people are dumb enough to let the music influence them to be evil.  Peers are MANY times the social influence music is.  I am very entertained by some gangster rap, particularly of NWA, D.J. Quick, and M.O.P.  It's high quality art, and it doesn't make me want to be evil.  However, I don't like the actual cultural realities that are the subjects of it.  

So, my major point is that we have way too much of a gangster culture, not that gangster rap makes people want to do bad things.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

I couldn't agree more with what UM just said.

----------


## ifuturist

> I can understand why it should be legal for medical use, as it has several recognised medical purposes, but i am absolutely sick and tired of people saying marijuana has killed 0 people, and tobacco has killed 100000 people or however many people or alcohol has killed 80000 people.
> 
> i have a few things to say:
> 
> - if people smoked marijuana on the scale that people smoke cigarettes or get on the drink (which would probably happen if it was legalized), then there would be a similar amount of deaths.
> 
> - ok, nobody has died as a direct result of smoking marijuana, but i suppose nobody has died as a direct result of smoking cigarettes. im sure people die from long term lung problems of smoking marijuana. turns out most people who do weed also smoke cigs, so i guess you can just all blame that. consider this, it would be like having a ton more alcoholics running around.
> 
> - if alcohol was made illegal, i am almost certain it would be classified a soft drug, because way less people would do it, and therefore less deaths. this is much similar to marijuana. if marijuana were legal, more people would die from it and it would be classified as a hard drug.
> ...




To everyone wanting marijuana to be legalized for medical reasons: There exists a prescription drug derived from marijuana that performs the exact same function. It's not news or anything. People just want to ignore the facts.

What's adorable about this entire discussion is that everyone seems to be believing the bullshit they're feeding each other.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> To everyone wanting marijuana to be legalized for medical reasons: There exists a prescription drug derived from marijuana that performs the exact same function. It's not news or anything. People just want to ignore the facts.
> 
> What's adorable about this entire discussion is that everyone seems to be believing the bullshit they're feeding each other.



Check your facts brah.

Marinol is often prescribe for vomiting. A pill for nausea.  ::?:  Turns out that a common complaint is that people puke it up before it goes into effect. What a surprise.

Marinol is strong.  Eating THC is much more powerful then smoking it.  People that don't like getting high prefer smoking weed for medicinal purposes for this reason. The level at which it's good for nausea is much less then the level that will get you really fucked up. Plus, you don't puke it up and it acts faster.

What bullshit are you referring to? You mean the uneducated trash about how it should be illegal? cause we pretty much stomp all over that.  I think you might be barking up the wrong tree.

----------


## ifuturist

No. Actually, I just meant all of it.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

Your sources?

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

Edit: a lot of posts occurred between me starting and ending this thing.

Yes, its called Marinol, and it sucks. It consists solely of 100% delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol. What people fail to realize is that _that's not all that's in whole cannabis._ There are many, many more pharmacologically useful compounds in whole herb than in Marinol. It's only available in pill form, and it won't do any good for a cancer patient that can't hold food down. Plus, it's very hard to adjust the dosage. A person can auto-titrate whole smoked/vaped cannabis, meaning that they only get as much as they need to to fix their current problem.

Besides, why is the synthetic form of the active ingredient only a schedule 3 substance, (along with codeine) but the natural source is schedule 1 (along with Heroin and LSD)? The reason: _money._ The drug companies don't want a common person to make their own medicine. That would make them lose money. They cannot patent a plant. (Monsanto patents _genes_, not plants.) They can patent a chemical process or an extraction method, but they cannot patent a plant itself.

Yes, there are a few cannabis extracts out there (Sativex), but they're not available in the US and they still suck.






> What's adorable about this entire discussion is that everyone seems to be believing the bullshit they're feeding each other.



Now that's just outright trolling.

----------


## ifuturist

> Now that's just outright trolling.



It's an observation.

Marijuana is illegal and it isn't going to change, no matter how many people on the Internet argue that it should. It's a joke. I don't know how to find the first person to tell the joke, so I can't cite my source.

The actual punchline is just how much people will squirm this way and that over it.

----------


## DrunkenArse

I hate to sound like a smooth-talking, liberal intellectual but I'm not squirming at all. Your post is a joke. It's funny. I think I might like you.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

Regardless of its legal status, I'll smoke it and will continue to smoke it.  But squirm over it? 

Yeah, right.

----------


## Universal Mind

> It's an observation.
> 
> Marijuana is illegal and it isn't going to change, no matter how many people on the Internet argue that it should. It's a joke. I don't know how to find the first person to tell the joke, so I can't cite my source.
> 
> The actual punchline is just how much people will squirm this way and that over it.



Pot is evolving toward full blown legality in the U.S.  It's easy to get a prescription for it in California.  You can get away with having small amounts of it in some states.  Celebrities can talk about their fun with it on Conan and Letterman, and the audience laughs.  A U.S. presidential candidate can say he "inhaled frequently" and get elected.  The country is waking up to what an absurdity the illegality of pot is.  It's a lot like how American society slowly woke up to the fact that professional wresting is fake.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> It's a lot like how American society slowly woke up to the fact that professional wresting is fake.



What?!?!  It's fake?!?  You should put shit like that in a spoiler!

----------


## DeathCell

> To everyone wanting marijuana to be legalized for medical reasons: There exists a prescription drug derived from marijuana that performs the exact same function. It's not news or anything. People just want to ignore the facts.
> 
> What's adorable about this entire discussion is that everyone seems to be believing the bullshit they're feeding each other.



Marinol.. It doesn't work as well and it costs a lot more money. When something is easily grown and cheap, compared to something manufactured and expensive... Give me a break.

It seems you believe the "bullshit" you've been fed very well yourself.





> Marijuana is illegal and it isn't going to change, no matter how many people on the Internet argue that it should. It's a joke. I don't know how to find the first person to tell the joke, so I can't cite my source.
> 
> The actual punchline is just how much people will squirm this way and that over it.
> __________________



Your name should be changed to ipast....  Times change and so do the people, the old guard will pass into obscurity and the new garb will return...(symbolism)

----------


## khh

> Marijuana is illegal and it isn't going to change, no matter how many people on the Internet argue that it should. It's a joke. I don't know how to find the first person to tell the joke, so I can't cite my source.



"Nothing will ever change and not a good damn thing you do matters".
I believe this is what's called a nihilistic world view.

----------


## The Invisible Man

California would be no longer be bankrupt if they legalized and taxed Marajuana. You know it.

----------


## Universal Mind

> California would be no longer be bankrupt if they legalized and taxed Marajuana. You know it.



The federal government could knock a huge chunk of our debt out if they legalized pot.  Well, if they do it after Obama is out of office in 2013 and money is still worth something then.

----------


## KingYoshi

I have never in my life heard a good valid argument against weed becoming legal. The health effects are no worse than cigarettes and alot safer than alcohol. You are 20x's (left field estimate, lol) more functional with weed than alcohol. Some people say that the government can't tax it, but that is BS. The government taxes tobacco. All they would have to do is create a law that requires a permit to grow weed. Simple. Legalization of weed won't have as big an impact on the economy as some people say, but at worst it will open up some more jobs. Thats bound to help the economy slightly, even if the numbers are miniscule, it certainly won't hurt it. 

The people that aggravate me the most are the ones who claim that weed shouldn't be legal because millions of people will now be high. How did LegalRights put it? "It would be like a ton more alcoholics running around?" LMAO. So i suppose, policeman or politicians are going to be blazed and the economy couldn't function. Alcohol is legal, but is the entire world drunk? Cigarettes are legal, but does the entire world smoke? The number of people who want to be in an altered state (drunk, high) isn't going to change. If someone doesn't want to be drunk/high then they aren't going to be just because marijuana is legal. This is a terrible argument. Fuck it, whether it is legal or not I'm going to smoke to my hearts content  :wink2:

----------


## KingYoshi

My comments in red LegalRights posts:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I can understand why it should be legal for medical use, as it has several recognised medical purposes, but i am absolutely sick and tired of people saying marijuana has killed 0 people, and tobacco has killed 100000 people or however many people or alcohol has killed 80000 people."

"i have a few things to say:"

- if people smoked marijuana on the scale that people smoke cigarettes or get on the drink (which would probably happen if it was legalized), then there would be a similar amount of deaths." 
_Really? Scientifically, cigarettes have been directly linked to cancer. Marijuana has not. There is a big chunk of deaths knocked off. Alcohol has deaths directly related to consumption. Marijuana does not. There is another large chunk of deaths knocked off. You can argue that Marijuana has indirectly caused deaths, but to say the numbers are similar to alcohl and cigarettes is simply untrue._

"- ok, nobody has died as a direct result of smoking marijuana, but i suppose nobody has died as a direct result of smoking cigarettes. im sure people die from long term lung problems of smoking marijuana." _I agree that some people have died from lung complications due to smoking weed long term. Marijuana, however, has not been proven to be a cause of cancer._ turns out most people who do weed also smoke cigs, so i guess you can just all blame that." _Completely irrelevant sentence, shouldn't even have been included._ "consider this, it would be like having a ton more alcoholics running around." _More ignorance. The number of people who want to be drunk/high will not change because weed is legal. If you do not want to be drunk/high your not going to be just because weed is legal. Terrible argument._

"- if alcohol was made illegal, i am almost certain it would be classified a soft drug, because way less people would do it, and therefore less deaths. this is much similar to marijuana. if marijuana were legal, more people would die from it and it would be classified as a hard drug." _More people would die from it? Why exactly is that? The people you claim will smoke weed like cigarettes are already doing that. Its not hard to get weed even though it is illegal. More people won't die, the same amount will._

"im not saying dont smoke weed, im saying to the people who think it should be legalized, to screw your heads on properly, and recognise it will never be legalized." _It will never be legalized. Well I didn't realize you were a seer. Tell me why alcohol is legal, why are cigarettes legal. They have more proven, potentially fatal qualities than marijuana. I'll go ahead and tell you, its free will. If something is not hazardous to the government, not (overly) deadly to you or the people around you, and especially if it can make the governement some money, and people enjoy it, it will most definately be legalized one day. When it does I'll be the first to remind you of this post, lol._

"although i wish it was legal without these problems and other social problems, it is best it remain illegal." _Well, I will believe you if you ever come up with a solid argument for it remaining illegal. Until then, I'd advise you not to use these arguments in front of intelligent people or they will continue to get ripped apart._

----------


## Kyasarin

wow this thread is still goin eh.. Figured people would agree to disagree by now.. But this really is an on-going debate.. I dont spend time researching pot or anything, but i will stand by my opinion that it should be legalized..Then perhaps the heavy drugs that are killing people everyday can be focused on more. But that's unlikely to happen. 

I smoke it, it helps more than any prescription pain meds ive taken. Again though, this is just one opinion from someone who's in blinding, nauseating pain every minute of every day...

----------


## Kuhnada29

> wow this thread is still goin eh.. Figured people would agree to disagree by now.. But this really is an on-going debate.. I dont spend time researching pot or anything, but i will stand by my opinion that it should be legalized..Then perhaps the heavy drugs that are killing people everyday can be focused on more. But that's unlikely to happen. 
> 
> I smoke it, it helps more than any prescription pain meds ive taken. Again though, this is just one opinion from someone who's in blinding, nauseating pain every minute of every day...



wow dude what condition do you have? That sounds bad. 

I had a kidney stone once. It was the most excruciating pain I've ever dealt with. I thought it was god's wrath or something lol. I actually puked from the pain.

----------


## SKA

> wow dude what condition do you have? That sounds bad. 
> 
> I had a kidney stone once. It was the most excruciating pain I've ever dealt with. I thought it was god's wrath or something lol. I actually puked from the pain.



Well Medical Marijuana is given to people to both soothe pain and to decrease nausea. People who are going through chemotherapy for cancer tratment are often very nauseous because of it. They are given medical marijuana to lessen that nausea. 

Many people with chronic pain from things like Multiple Sclerose have been greatly benefitting from the pain soothing qualities of Marijuana.

It would be utterly cruel to denie them any marijuana. 



Generally I don't think any drug should be illegal> Illegal means out of control.
In Sweden they have Heroin clinics so heroin junkies can come there and shoot CLEAN Heroin, with CLEAN needles and very accurately measured doses so they never OD. This a good way of harm reduction.

Weed here is allowed to be sold publicly in coffeeshops and it goes pretty well here. I think the same policy should be run for all other drugs. It simply doesn't help to just BAN everything alltogether.

You see drugs that have very therapeutical properties(Psychedelics) and are otherwise completely physically harmless and have a very low general risk are now lumped together on 1 heap with destructive, high risk and abuse-sensative drugs like Speed, Cocaine, Heroin, Crack and Meth.. This is plain rediculous. And it leaves people who choose to do drugs all alone and unguided in finding out what drug may best be avoided for healthreasons. They are now left to search in the darkness of the Drug-tabboo. And one of the most destructive drugs, alcohol, is strangely excluded from the label "drugs". AND people are SO under educated of the Dangers of Alcohol and take it waaaay too lightly due to social normalisation of Alcohol. This is totally backwards and immoral.

People should be provided with proper information about drugs and drugs should be legal and obtainable in Apothecaries by people of 20 years of age and older. This way Drug purity can be garanteed (so no more poisonous impurites) and proper Drug information can be provided. This way it can be controlled.

Keeping it Tabboo'd and Illegal just puts the whole topic of drugs in a very shady, criminal, dark corner of society.

----------


## Tricky

Marijuana, along with alchohol and any type of smoking should be illegal. (Yes, strict. Too bad.)

I have my reasons for this:

Alchohol: Should be illegal. For everybody. This is a huge cause of death. In many ways. First, people who are drunk are more likely to commit suicide/do other stupid things while thier drunk. Plus it kills brain cells. Also, drunk driving is a huge cause of death. Why would they keep this legal?

Ciggs: The most addictive substance ever. Costs people tons of money, makes them go nuts, support groups for people trying to quit, etc..

Marijuana: Same as alchohol, but more. On top of killing brain cells, studies show that kids who use it normally dont do  as good in school, and thier motivation to do things also goes down. They might stop doing whatever sport thier doing (wich they could have a great life with), and throw thier life away pretty much. (Notice I said most)



It seems to me that if they just got rid of these three things, the world would be a much better place.

With that said: If drugs ARE legal, and they cant make it illegal: I agree with SKA.

----------


## Taosaur

> Marijuana, along with alchohol and any type of smoking should be illegal. (Yes, strict. Too bad.)
> 
> I have my reasons for this:
> 
> Alchohol: Should be illegal. For everybody. This is a huge cause of death. In many ways. First, people who are drunk are more likely to commit suicide/do other stupid things while thier drunk. Plus it kills brain cells. Also, drunk driving is a huge cause of death. Why would they keep this legal?
> 
> Ciggs: The most addictive substance ever. Costs people tons of money, makes them go nuts, support groups for people trying to quit, etc..
> 
> Marijuana: Same as alchohol, but more. On top of killing brain cells, studies show that kids who use it normally dont do  as good in school, and thier motivation to do things also goes down. They might stop doing whatever sport thier doing (wich they could have a great life with), and throw thier life away pretty much. (Notice I said most)
> ...



Even from the perspective that no one should ever use any form of intoxicant/mood alterer (better throw coffee on the pyre), prohibition makes no sense. Cannabis IS illegal, and the weed economy is thriving. Just declaring something bad and wrong does not make it go away.

----------


## fzongqvxp

Alcohol: amazing
Cigs: good in short binges
Reefer: More fun when its illegal

----------


## Universal Mind

> Marijuana, along with alchohol and any type of smoking should be illegal. (Yes, strict. Too bad.)
> 
> I have my reasons for this:
> 
> Alchohol: Should be illegal. For everybody. This is a huge cause of death. In many ways. First, people who are drunk are more likely to commit suicide/do other stupid things while thier drunk. Plus it kills brain cells. Also, drunk driving is a huge cause of death. Why would they keep this legal?
> 
> Ciggs: The most addictive substance ever. Costs people tons of money, makes them go nuts, support groups for people trying to quit, etc..
> 
> Marijuana: Same as alchohol, but more. On top of killing brain cells, studies show that kids who use it normally dont do as good in school, and thier motivation to do things also goes down. They might stop doing whatever sport thier doing (wich they could have a great life with), and throw thier life away pretty much. (Notice I said most)
> ...



Why should it be the government's choice and not your own?  What is freedom, in your opinion?  

Have you studied what all went wrong during alcohol prohibition?  Why do you think it is a better alternative?  Can you imagine what would happen on the streets if tobacco were illegal?  

Why do you think pot is worse than alcohol?  Alcohol causes all of the same problems and then a ton more, including overdose, violence, and cirrhosis.

----------


## Black_Eagle

*waits for somebody to demand Tricky's sources of his misinformation that marijuana kills brain cells*






> To everyone wanting marijuana to be legalized for medical reasons: There exists a prescription drug derived from marijuana that performs the exact same function. It's not news or anything. People just want to ignore the facts.
> 
> What's adorable about this entire discussion is that everyone seems to be believing the bullshit they're feeding each other.



Take a good, long look at what this guy is saying. He's saying that THC, which is the active ingredient in marijuana, is ok to use *so long as you don't get any pleasure from it.*

----------


## Universal Mind

> Take a good, long look at what this guy is saying. He's saying that THC, which is the active ingredient in marijuana, is ok to use *so long as you don't get any pleasure from it.*



 ::chuckle:: 

Tricky, what sources told you that pot kills brain cells?

----------


## KingYoshi

My response in red





> Marijuana, along with alchohol and any type of smoking should be illegal. (Yes, strict. Too bad.) Lol, at the too bad.
> 
> I have my reasons for this:
> 
> Alchohol: Should be illegal. For everybody. This is a huge cause of death. In many ways. First, people who are drunk are more likely to commit suicide/do other stupid things while thier drunk. People who have relationship problems are more likely to kill themselves than people without them. Lets make relationships illegal. Plus it kills brain cells. For the love of god! Headbanging kilss brain cells. Gonna make that illegal too? Also, drunk driving is a huge cause of death. Why would they keep this legal? Drunk driving isn't legal you dope.
> 
> Ciggs: The most addictive substance ever. Costs people tons of money, (lol, things that cost people tons of money should be illegal?)makes them go nuts, (lol, what?) support groups for people trying to quit,(wtf does this have to do with anything) etc..
> 
> Marijuana: Same as alchohol, but more. On top of killing brain cells, studies show that kids who use it normally dont do  as good in school, and thier motivation to do things also goes down. They might stop doing whatever sport thier doing (wich they could have a great life with), and throw thier life away pretty much. (Notice I said most) Who the hell said that marijuana should be legal for kids? Are you mental?
> ...



Thanks! An entire post of pure ignorance!

----------


## Universal Mind

Is jail safer than marijuana?

----------


## Bizarre Jester

I'm not denying that it's dangerous and people can get screwed up but I thick that it should be. A middle class family has all of these pain killers and prescription drugs throughout their house, and that's completely legal. Then a  lower class family has some pot under the sofa. That shouldn't be a crime either. It being illegal doesn't stop marijuana use from occurring, it only aggravates the problem. I will avoid it whether it's legal or not, it needs to be a choice. Our prisons are over crowded, and it costs us thousands a year to keep just one person there.

----------


## Universal Mind

... and every time a person goes to prison, it screws up that person's life and is a family tragedy.

----------


## SKA

> Marijuana: Same as alchohol, but more. On top of killing brain cells, studies show that kids who use it normally dont do as good in school, and thier motivation to do things also goes down. They might stop doing whatever sport thier doing (wich they could have a great life with), and throw thier life .



Sorry with all due respect, but who made you believe that untruthfull crap?

About alcohol what you said was dead on. Correct. About Tobacco too.
But there are plenty of REAL medical studies that show that Marijuana does NOT AT ALL do any nerve cell damage. Neither does it damage any other body cells. THC, is non toxic and harms nothing at all. Off course let's not forget that we've all been brainwashed with a campain of bogus propaganda lies about marijuana. And about pretty much every other drug known to man. Lies lies lies. Rumours and Propaganda.

Richard Nixon once told a couple of scientist to do a mecial study on Marijuana and try to prove how bad it is. They came out with test results that proved that Marijuana actually wasn't a risky or harmfull drug at all. Nixon ordered these results to be destroyed and instead presented America, and the world, lies about Marijuana to still criminalise Marijuana despite the truth of the testresults.

Once there was a propaganda poster with some bogus testresults. A "test" was done where the brainwaves of a "normal" sober person was shown and that of a stoned person of the same age. The stoned person had brainwaves of a child of 7. However the brainwaves that were supposed to represent the stoner's were ACTUALLY the brainwaves of a Coma Patient. Lies like these have formed our opinions about Marijuana. 

I know the truth lies a little burried under mountains of these lies, but a little digging and you will certainly find the truthfull medical testresults and facts about Marijuana. A good place to start finding unbiased test results regarding Marijuana and pretty much all other drugs is: www.erowid.org.

----------


## Tricky

Forget the brain cell thing I said. A part of my post was wrong, whoop tee do.

Moving on..

*KingYoshi:* 

"Lets make relationships illegal"

Sure. Now let the entire human race die as a result.


"Drunk driving isnt legal"

But the alchohol used to drunk drive is. 


"Things that cost people tons of money should be illegal? lol wut? What does this have to do with anything?"

It means ciggs ruin lives because of the reasons I said. 


"Who the hell said marijuana should be legal for kids? Are you mental?"

Way to take things literally. It should be illegal to anybody. 


"Get rid of these three things? What? Like magic?"

Obviously you cannot poof them away. I realize there will still be people running around selling weed, and if the others are illegal aswell then people will still be using those. But if its illegal, and somebody goes and fucks thier life over on it, now its thier own damn fault for being a jackass. 


*Universal Mind:* 

"... and every time a person goes to prison, it screws up that person's life and is a family tragedy. "

I guess we should have all the murderers and thiefs in the world running loose then? Some problems cannot be completely fixed, they can only be handled the best they can be handled. 


Sorry for not getting at everybody. I might have missed some of you.

----------


## Bizarre Jester

> ... and every time a person goes to prison, it screws up that person's life and is a family tragedy.



There's another reason, I had friends go to jail for drug abuse and things I didn't think were such a big deal. It's a lose lose situation for everybody.

----------


## Black_Eagle

Tricky, even from that standpoint legalization makes sense. Criminalization, as past prohibitions have shown, only leads to an underground industry centered around the illicit substance. An underground industry that must use violence to expand its market and protect its goods. Other countries that have legalized marijuana usage have seen a decrease in use

And we have proof due to real-world examples:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/67

Prohibition doesn't stop anybody from using it, it just classifies users as criminals along with the violent pushers and makes them liable for jailtime. 

Just a thought: the fact that marijuana is taboo and considered bad makes people more prone to commit other acts of crime. If you do something that society considers "bad" and you know it's "bad", then you will be more likely to willingly do something that actually is bad and causes some sort of damage to a person other than yourself. Sort of like how if you are continually exposed to gore you become desensitized from it.

----------


## Supernova

> Obviously you cannot poof them away. I realize there will still be people running around selling weed, and if the others are illegal aswell then people will still be using those. But if its illegal, and somebody goes and fucks thier life over on it, now its thier own damn fault for being a jackass.



but if someone ruins their life on a legal drug it's not their fault?  How the fuck does that work?

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

> *Universal Mind:* 
> 
> "... and every time a person goes to prison, it screws up that person's life and is a family tragedy. "
> 
> I guess we should have all the murderers and thiefs in the world running loose then? Some problems cannot be completely fixed, they can only be handled the best they can be handled.



You missed the entire point of what UM was trying to get across.  In fact, most of your 'responses' are pretty off-key.

He wasn't talking about murderers and thieves, he was referring to people who go to jail over idiotic charges over weed and subsequently have their lives screwed over.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I guess we should have all the murderers and thiefs in the world running loose then? Some problems cannot be completely fixed, they can only be handled the best they can be handled.



Cold Blooded got my point.  People's lives get screwed up when they don't deserve to have their lives screwed up under the stupid marijuana prohibition.  Think really hard about all you have said.  You keep talking about how pot should be illegal because it supposedly causes this and that problem for the users.  Right?  Well, prison causes worse problems for the users you claim you want to protect.  So, if you care sooo much about pot smokers, why do you want them in prison?  If you don't care about them, why do you care if they smoke pot?  

Rapists and thieves ar victimizers.  Smoking pot is not a form of victimization.  Putting rapists and thieves in prison is not about protecting them.  It is about protecting potential victims.  Putting pot smokers in prison, on the other hand, is supposed to be about protecting pot smokers.  It is retarded.

----------


## DeathCell

How come all these Americans want to control what we put in our own bodies?

Life, Liberty, and DROP THAT BLUNT MOTHERFUCKER!

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Life, Liberty, and DROP THAT BLUNT MOTHERFUCKER!



I just changed my sig but I'm totally gonna sig that in a few weeks

----------


## Black_Eagle

> I just changed my sig but I'm totally gonna sig that in a few weeks



Too late  :wink2:

----------


## KingYoshi

My comments in red





> Forget the brain cell thing I said. A part of my post was wrong, whoop tee do.
> 
> Moving on..
> 
> *KingYoshi:* 
> 
> "Lets make relationships illegal"
> 
> Sure. Now let the entire human race die as a result.
> ...

----------


## Kyasarin

> wow dude what condition do you have? That sounds bad. 
> 
> I had a kidney stone once. It was the most excruciating pain I've ever dealt with. I thought it was god's wrath or something lol. I actually puked from the pain.



i have severe rheumatoid arthritis, and it's quickly destroying my body in everyway it can. Because of the drugs i take, ive also had my appendix (prolly spelled wrong) almost burst, which was removed, bad kidney infection, and other small things. Due to the disease itself, i lost both hips which have been completely replaced. I live in constant agonizing pain, so much that i cry when i wake up.. Getting down the stairs and back up is a chore, and i still get people treating me like a heroin addict cause i smoke weed. I stopped caring, let people think what they want. I know what works for me, treat me how you like, just be glad you dont live my life =)

----------


## Noogah

Quite simply, I just don't think that humans have the capacity to keep from abusing it. So being illegal is smart, i think. I mean, it's for the peoples own good.

----------


## Supernova

Well, that depends on what use you consider abuse.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Quite simply, I just don't think that humans have the capacity to keep from abusing it. So being illegal is smart, i think. I mean, it's for the peoples own good.



That's a pretty lame argument given the fact that their *are* lots of people that use it without abusing it. Also, it ignores the fact that countries that legalize it see a *drop* in use. So if you want less people to use it, make it legal. It further ignores the fact that people use/abuse it anyway and that making it illegal just amplifies the harm that comes from it. So if you want to reduce the harm that comes about from using it, make it legal.

You see, in the "real world", we have this notion called "evidence". We also have this strange and crazy idea that after overwhelming "evidence" has been presented against an idea, you don't believe it anymore. 

It's pretty cool if you stop and think about it for a second.

Perhaps *you* don't have the capacity to use it without abusing it so you generalize what holds true for *you* to everyone else. Similar to how fundamentalists are often vile and immoral human beings unless they believe in hell and so assume that everyone else is the same when the truth is that most people don't need to believe in hell to be moral.  Granted, that's just an analogy, but I think that it's a good one. I think it's just the same really. Many people don't need marijuana to be illegal to not abuse it.

----------


## Universal Mind

Noogah, on top of what PhilosopherStoned just said, it is none of your business if other people "abuse" themselves.  Do you want me to start trying to control what you eat, how much you exercise, and how much you sleep?  

What is your definition of "freedom"?

----------


## khh

> Quite simply, I just don't think that humans have the capacity to keep from abusing it. So being illegal is smart, i think. I mean, it's for the peoples own good.



By that logic, Alcohol, tobacco and junk food should also be illegal, to protect people.

----------


## Noogah

> That's a pretty lame argument given the fact that their *are* lots of people that use it without abusing it. Also, it ignores the fact that countries that legalize it see a *drop* in use. So if you want less people to use it, make it legal. It further ignores the fact that people use/abuse it anyway and that making it illegal just amplifies the harm that comes from it. So if you want to reduce the harm that comes about from using it, make it legal.
> 
> You see, in the "real world", we have this notion called "evidence". We also have this strange and crazy idea that after overwhelming "evidence" has been presented against an idea, you don't believe it anymore. 
> 
> It's pretty cool if you stop and think about it for a second.
> 
> Perhaps *you* don't have the capacity to use it without abusing it so you generalize what holds true for *you* to everyone else. Similar to how fundamentalists are often vile and immoral human beings unless they believe in hell and so assume that everyone else is the same when the truth is that most people don't need to believe in hell to be moral.  Granted, that's just an analogy, but I think that it's a good one. I think it's just the same really. Many people don't need marijuana to be illegal to not abuse it.



Well you see, I actually have never used drugs, thank you. Whatever. Each to his own. There are many peoplem who cant, and drugs ruin lives. There really is no need for drugs. I mean, not illegal drugs.

If you can keep fro overusing them, good for you. But not everybody is the same.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Well you see, I actually have never used drugs, thank you. Whatever. Each to his own. There are many peoplem who cant, and drugs ruin lives. There really is no need for drugs. I mean, not illegal drugs.
> 
> If you can keep fro overusing them, good for you. But not everybody is the same.



But how does making them illegal prevent them from doing so?  Also it would help  your point if you addressed the concern that UM raised.

----------


## khh

> But how does making them illegal prevent them from doing so?  Also it would help  your point if you addressed the concern that UM raised.



Not everyone are libertarians.

----------


## Universal Mind

Noogah, I have noticed that you are spending too much time on the internet.  Think of what that could do to your productivity.  I think you therefore need to be spending your life in jail.

----------


## DeathCell

> Noogah, I have noticed that you are spending too much time on the internet.  Think of what that could do to your productivity.  I think you therefore need to be spending your life in jail.



I agree. Perfect solution to obesity as well, let's arrest anyone we catch eating big macs.

----------


## IWillBeLight

I kind of think people should be allowed to do what they want to do as long as they're ready for the consequences.. haven't you guys seen Wall-E? The human captain wakes up from his obesity / easy going life style, and wants to return to normal, earth life.

Marijuana has been tried by 66 million people in the US, that's a pretty good chunk.. and I think as you grow up you either learn to put down the pipe, use the pipe for your benefit and balance life, or get into harder drugs.

Medical Marijuana is different, they give out synthetic heroin all the time (Oxy-cottin), and I put marijuana in a much more safe catagorey then opiates, less addictive and dangerous.

From my own experience, everything should be live and learn, cause that's nature.. except the archetypes, like don't kill, don't steal.. all that mumbo-jumbo.

----------


## Noogah

> But how does making them illegal prevent them from doing so?  Also it would help  your point if you addressed the concern that UM raised.



It wont necessarily stop everybody, but it will certainly provide a considerable amount of friction. WHo is UM? I didnt see his post.

EDIT:

Oh, I get it. Sorry. Universal Mind

----------


## Noogah

> Noogah, I have noticed that you are spending too much time on the internet.  Think of what that could do to your productivity.  I think you therefore need to be spending your life in jail.



The internet is not like a drug at all. You dont see the internet killing people, and it rarely ruions lives. (Oh yeah, and I'm not on half as often as you.)

There is nothing physically harmful about the internet. Drugs are bad. COmpletely bad. They harm your body, are highly addictive, cost tons of money, are illegal, and ruin peoples lives all the time. The interent has never had side effects to that magnitude.

The internet is a tool of communication. Taking away the internet would pull down websites like dreamviews, and ebay. Not to mention email, and private governmental websites.

----------


## Universal Mind

> It wont necessarily stop everybody, but it will certainly provide a considerable amount of friction. WHo is UM? I didnt see his post.

----------


## Noogah

> Cold Blooded got my point.  People's lives get screwed up when they don't deserve to have their lives screwed up under the stupid marijuana prohibition.  Think really hard about all you have said.  You keep talking about how pot should be illegal because it supposedly causes this and that problem for the users.  Right?  Well, prison causes worse problems for the users you claim you want to protect.  So, if you care sooo much about pot smokers, why do you want them in prison?  If you don't care about them, why do you care if they smoke pot?  
> 
> Rapists and thieves ar victimizers.  Smoking pot is not a form of victimization.  Putting rapists and thieves in prison is not about protecting them.  It is about protecting potential victims.  Putting pot smokers in prison, on the other hand, is supposed to be about protecting pot smokers.  It is retarded.



Following your train of thought, there are two options.

You either go to jail for using marijuna, or you unban marijuna so people will no longer go to jail.

Here is another option:

DOnt use marijuna, and you will not go to jail.

Thats the point of the law.

----------


## Noogah

> 



I edited that post, in case you didnt see.

----------


## Universal Mind

> The internet is not like a drug at all. You dont see the internet killing people, and it rarely ruions lives. (Oh yeah, and I'm not on half as often as you.)
> 
> There is nothing physically harmful about the internet. Drugs are bad. COmpletely bad. They harm your body, are highly addictive, cost tons of money, are illegal, and ruin peoples lives all the time. The interent has never had side effects to that magnitude.
> 
> The internet is a tool of communication. Taking away the internet would pull down websites like dreamviews, and ebay. Not to mention email, and private governmental websites.



Tell that to people who spend 14 hours a day on the internet and fail out of school because of it.  You say the internet doesn't kill people, but the same is true of marijuana.   :wink2: 

Drugs are terrible for a lot of people, but they are not bad for everybody. It is up to each person to decide for him/herself whether or not to use a given drug.  It is not up to you or the government.  





> Following your train of thought, there are two options.
> 
> You either go to jail for using marijuna, or you unban marijuna so people will no longer go to jail.
> 
> Here is another option:
> 
> DOnt use marijuna, and you will not go to jail.
> 
> Thats the point of the law.



Sort of like if you give your wallet to an armed robber he won't shoot you.  What a justification.

----------


## Sornaensis

> Following your train of thought, there are two options.
> 
> You either go to jail for *not conforming*, or you *unban conforming* so people will no longer go to jail.
> 
> Here is another option:
> 
> *Conform*, and you will not go to jail.
> 
> Thats the point of the law.



Fix'd. What is the purpose of having an open government if laws can't be changed?

[rant]
Also, why the fuck is America still a damn republic? Will all this instant communication we can't vote on absolutely everything? That's ridiculous. Anyone with an SSN and Driver's License should be able to vote online or through a similar method. What we need to do is get rid of our Temporary Dictator and representatives and do everything ourselves. Republics were made for a time when it was ridiculous to have the entire population vote on laws, but since this is no longer the case, why the hell do we still have one? Well, for the representatives, of course. What with the Salary-for-life, diplomatic immunity, power among other things, why would they sack the system they're busy milking? What America needs is a good revolution[/rant]

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Not everyone are libertarians.



That's a good point but I do think that a lot of people are hesitant to see individual freedoms trampled on for no good reason. That's all I was trying to get at.





> It wont necessarily stop everybody, but it will certainly provide a considerable amount of friction.



But this doesn't address the point that countries that have made it legal see a decrease in use. So you agree that it should be legal so that less people would use it?

----------


## Noogah

Well, not exactly. Your point is valid, and considerable. But not all cultures react the same way. Unbanning drugs, and then banning afterwards for experimental purposes would be one heck of a headache for the government.

If making it legal would indeed be beneficial, then of course. But we can't know what would happen.

If mankind could REALLY be trusted to obey the laws, I would say that drugs should stay illegal...

But whichever one decreases the use the most. ALso, keep in mind that overall decreased usage is not always better. It depends on the individuals using the drugs. Until then, all of this remains hypothetical.

----------


## Universal Mind

Should high transfat foods be illegal?  Should it be illegal to eat more than 3,000 calories a day?  Should it be illegal to sleep less than 7 hours a night?  Should it be illegal to not exercise?  Should it be illegal to not go to college?

----------


## DrunkenArse

should it be illegal to be a fundamentalist?

----------


## Universal Mind

> should it be illegal to be a fundamentalist?



Yes.  We can't just tell people that it's okay.  I think it's better for society if people are not fundamentalists.  They should be locked up. If they have a problem with jail, all they have to do is choose to not be fundamentalists.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Yes.  We can't just tell people that it's okay.  I think it's better for society if people are not fundamentalists.  They should be locked up. If they have a problem with jail, all they have to do is choose to not be fundamentalists.



I don't think you're taking this far enough. Can people really be trusted not to abuse religion and become fundamentalists?  If people can't be trusted not to abuse religion, then maybe we should just make believing in god illegal.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I don't think you're taking this far enough. Can people really be trusted not to abuse religion and become fundamentalists? If people can't be trusted not to abuse religion, then maybe we should just make believing in god illegal.



That is what is best for society.  A community can have standards.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> That is what is best for society.  A community can have standards.



A community* must* have standards.

----------


## Noogah

Now, not only are you being 


But you also


COmparing the use of drugs to an individuals beliefs is next to hysterical. You hate us? Move to Iraq. There you can even murder us without a second glance. 

_NOT IN THE STATES MATES!_

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Now, not only are you being 
> 
> COmparing the use of drugs to an individuals beliefs is next to hysterical. You hate us? Move to Iraq. There you can even murder us without a second glance. 
> 
> _NOT IN THE STATES MATES!_



I believe that jah wants me to smoke weed all day long because it says in the bible to use the herbs of the field. It makes sense. did satan make weed? I thought he didn't have the power to create, only god. So god gave us weed so that we could use it and sinners that don't use it are going to hell.

Should my religion be illegal?

----------


## Noogah

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

1 Corinthians 6:12
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient..."

It did not say to use all herbs.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> It did not say to use all herbs.



I don't care what you said. I care what the bible said. Should my religion be illegal?

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Mathew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; that which cometh out of the mouth defileth a man.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Should high transfat foods be illegal? Should it be illegal to eat more than 3,000 calories a day? Should it be illegal to sleep less than 7 hours a night? Should it be illegal to not exercise? Should it be illegal to not go to college?



Noogah, answers please.  

Plus, Christianity has resulted in a great deal of killing.  Study world history.  Why should it be legal?

----------


## Noogah

> Noogah, answers please.  
> 
> Plus, Christianity has resulted in a great deal of killing.  Study world history.  Why should it be legal?




Oh I'm sure you'll find it in your heart to forgive the radical Catholics who lived 400 years ago? The Bible never supports such acts, and I don't know of any real Christians who kill people anymore.

As for all the food bans, no. Never heard of transfat kill anyone. All that stuff are just human habits. ABusing your body with toxic drugs are unnatural, addicting, and harm lives.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

Noogah, you're an idiot.  I'm going to leave it at that and not even justify your subsequent idiot claims with a response.  Everything that's needed to be said has been said at least three times now over the last 10 pages to the people with the EXACT same mentality as you.  I think you're listening to the government stems from the fact that you don't think for yourself.

Go back to church.


EDIT:





> As for all the food bans, no. Never heard of transfat kill anyone.



Are you THAT fucking ignorant?

Heart disease?  Obesity?  Hypertension?  High blood pressure?  Aneurysms?

----------


## DrunkenArse

> Go back to church.



NOOOOOOOO!!!!! Go to science class!

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

This kid's too far gone.  Evolution will be harder to teach to him than the fact that marijuana has never killed anybody or that prescriptions drugs - which are legal - have ruined far more lives, are ten times addictive, and ultimately a strain on his own 'argument.'

----------


## Noogah

> Noogah, you're an idiot.  I'm going to leave it at that and not even justify your subsequent idiot claims with a response.  Everything that's needed to be said has been said at least three times now over the last 10 pages to the people with the EXACT same mentality as you.  I think you're listening to the government stems from the fact that you don't think for yourself.
> 
> Go back to church.
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hm. If you cant respond, that's okay. ANyway, I was just giving my opinion. Use drugs for all I care. Just dont get caught! :wink2: 

I personally obey the laws. ANd referring to the latter, abusing transfat can contribute to all that you said, but is not completely to blame.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Oh I'm sure you'll find it in your heart to forgive the radical Catholics who lived 400 years ago? The Bible never supports such acts, and I don't know of any real Christians who kill people anymore.
> 
> As for all the food bans, no. Never heard of transfat kill anyone. All that stuff are just human habits. ABusing your body with toxic drugs are unnatural, addicting, and harm lives.



:yumdumdoodledum: 

Serious question... How old are you?  Have you taken world history or any other history classes in school yet?  Have you taken any biology classes? 

You ignored several of my questions.





> ANd referring to the latter, abusing transfat can contribute to all that you said, but is not completely to blame.



How is that different from pot?  

Heart disease is the #1 killer in the United States.

----------


## Noogah

> :yumdumdoodledum: 
> 
> Serious question... How old are you?  Have you taken world history or any other history classes in school yet?  Have you taken any biology classes? 
> 
> You ignored several of my questions.



Ditto. I tried to answer all your questions. I have spies who would love to figure out every detail about me, so I will refrain from revealing any of that info.

Yeah, believe it or not, there are people who hate me so badly, they posted all my personal info on the web.

Now if you dont mind, I think I'm finished here. I gave my opinion, and thats all I wish to do. What you do is up to you, but dont call someone else an idiot for thinking otherwise.

"How is that different from pot? 

Heart disease is the #1 killer in the United States.
"

IDK, maybe it's worth debating. If you care so much, write a letter to the department of health.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Ditto. I tried to answer all your questions. I have spies who would love to figure out every detail about me, so I will refrain from revealing any of that info.
> 
> Yeah, believe it or not, there are people who hate me so badly, they posted all my personal info on the web.
> 
> Now if you dont mind, I think I'm finished here. I gave my opinion, and thats all I wish to do. What you do is up to you, but dont call someone else an idiot for thinking otherwise.
> 
> "How is that different from pot? 
> 
> Heart disease is the #1 killer in the United States.
> ...



Thanks for saying pretty much nothing.  Stay in touch.

----------


## Noogah

RIght! Keep your eyes open for my next big post coming up in the religion/spirituality section. This one is gonna be fun. In fact, since your the atheist here, and we're sorta rivals, I'm gonna PM you a copy of what I say in the post for you to check for scientific error.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> This kid's too far gone.  Evolution will be harder to teach to him than the fact that marijuana has never killed anybody or that prescriptions drugs - which are legal - have ruined far more lives, are ten times addictive, and ultimately a strain on his own 'argument.'



It's a tough call.  Should we verbally slap him around in the hopes that he'll wake up, be kind to him or just let him be.  What worries me is that he's no doubt going to find some ignorant creationist woman, have 49 kids with her and home "school" everyone of them.  It is fucked up beyond words to deny a human the right to know what they are and where they came from. It makes me see red just thinking about doing that to a child.

Noogah,  What about the bible verses I quoted?  Are you gonna dip out without admitting that the bible does say that your god gave us weed to use?

----------


## DrunkenArse

> In fact, since your the atheist here, and we're sorta rivals, I'm gonna PM you a copy of what I say in the post for you to check for scientific error.



I think that UM would probably need the resources of an entire university to pick out every error in it. Without even having seen it yet.  

No offense UM, it's just that you're not exactly (Einstein + Newton + Darwin)^15 which is what I'm sure it would take.  I'm sure you would do a fine job picking out at least a hundred errors or so though.....

----------


## DeathCell

> Following your train of thought, there are two options.
> 
> You either go to jail for using marijuna, or you unban marijuna so people will no longer go to jail.
> 
> Here is another option:
> 
> DOnt use marijuna, and you will not go to jail.
> 
> Thats the point of the law.



This kind of logic from a guy whose comparing hitler to obama...

Don't say no to the Furor, than you won't be thrown in concentration camps.

Worst argument ever, that's the point of the law.

Don't write books it's illegal, the point of the law!

Sorry but this is by far the worst argument I've ever seen.

It's the law! So we can make anything the "law" and you'll blindly obey. Sheep.






















































BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH  HHHHHHHHH

Oh little bo peep I found your sheep.

----------


## DeathCell

> Quite simply, I just don't think that humans have the capacity to keep from abusing it. So being illegal is smart, i think. I mean, it's for the peoples own good.





People don't need to read, it can spread information and possibly invite hatred for the government and could result in a revolt full of bloodshed.

So making reading books being illegal is smart. I mean it's for peoples own good.

----------


## Noogah

> I think that UM would probably need the resources of an entire university to pick out every error in it. Without even having seen it yet.  
> 
> No offense UM, it's just that you're not exactly (Einstein + Newton + Darwin)^15 which is what I'm sure it would take.  I'm sure you would do a fine job picking out at least a hundred errors or so though.....



Man! You have some REAL bitterness issues.

----------


## Sornaensis

> Man! You have some REAL bitterness issues.



It sure must be blissful being a complete idiot.  :smiley:

----------


## Alric

To me, it is real simple. If you are not harming anyone else, you should be able to do anything you feel like. The government really has no business telling people what they can or can not do in their private life.

----------


## Noogah

> It sure must be blissful being a complete idiot.



You are...pitiful.

----------


## DrunkenArse

I want an answer about that genesis verse I put up for you Noogah. Does god say we can use weed?

----------


## DrunkenArse

oh and...






> You are...pitiful.



 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh: 

Coming from you, I'm sure A Roxxor is flattered by that statement.

----------


## khh

I think you're being too harsh on Noogah. s/he is just a bit badly informed on the subject, while not caring to learn anything about it.

----------


## Black_Eagle

> I think you're being too harsh on Noogah. s/he is just a bit *badly informed* on the subject, *while not caring to learn anything about it.*



Ridicule worthy IMO.

----------


## Sornaensis

> You are...pitiful.



Oh really?

----------


## Noogah

> Don't write books it's illegal, the point of the law!
> 
> Sorry but this is by far the worst argument I've ever seen.
> 
> It's the law! So we can make anything the "law" and you'll blindly obey. Sheep.



The world would suffer without books. The world would not suffer without marijuna. If some law comes out that says "NO MARRIAGE"

Obviously these laws must be ignored. Marriage is nescessary for human continuity. But the world would be fine without marijuna. In fact, perhaps even better. We dont NEED marijuna. It is often harmful. It makes perfect sense to obey a law that says "dont use marijuna"

No comparison.

----------


## Baron Samedi

Yes.  Cannabis is cure for cancer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjhT9282-Tw

----------


## DrunkenArse

> The world would suffer without books. The world would not suffer without marijuna. If some law comes out that says "NO MARRIAGE"
> 
> Obviously these laws must be ignored. Marriage is nescessary for human continuity. But the world would be fine without marijuna. In fact, perhaps even better. We dont NEED marijuna. It is often harmful. It makes perfect sense to obey a law that says "dont use marijuna"
> 
> No comparison.




Are you going to ignore the fact that the bible says to use it?  

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Weed has seeds doesn't it?  You are very good at just ignoring things that you don't like Noogah.  Does the bible teach that? Because as religious as you claim to be, one might assume that it did.

----------


## no-Name

> The world would suffer without books. The world would not suffer without marijuna. If some law comes out that says "NO MARRIAGE"
> 
> Obviously these laws must be ignored. Marriage is nescessary for human continuity. But the world would be fine without marijuna. In fact, perhaps even better. We dont NEED marijuna. It is often harmful. It makes perfect sense to obey a law that says "dont use marijuna"
> 
> No comparison.





No comparison is right
Should knives be illegal? 
And it's already been said, but how about alcohal? We don't NEED alchohal, or cigarettes, or  any other 'recreational drug'.

Sorry if you've already responded to a similar post :\

----------


## Noogah

> Are you going to ignore the fact that the bible says to use it?  
> 
> Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
> 
> Weed has seeds doesn't it?  You are very good at just ignoring things that you don't like Noogah.  Does the bible teach that? Because as religious as you claim to be, one might assume that it did.




THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE LAST TIME I WANT TO ANSWER AN IDENTICAL QUESTION BY QUOTING MYSELF! DONT MAKE ME DO IT AGAIN!





> 1 Corinthians 6:19-20
> "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
> 
> 1 Corinthians 6:12
> "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient..."
> 
> It did not say to use all herbs.




Jack : You burned all the food, the shade! The rum!

Elizabeth : Yes, the rum is gone.

Jack : *Why is the rum gone?*

Elizabeth : One, because it is a vile drink that turns even the most respectable men into complete scoundrels. Two, that signal is over a thousand feet high. The entire Royal Navy is out looking for me, do you really think that there is even the slightest chance that they won?t see it?

Jack : *But why is the rum gone?*

----------


## DrunkenArse

> THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE LAST TIME I WANT TO ANSWER AN IDENTICAL QUESTION BY QUOTING MYSELF! DONT MAKE ME DO IT AGAIN!



You didn't answer an identical question by quoting yourself. Read that sentence carefully to get the correct meaning.

Your quotes say nothing about weed. Or if they do, they say just as much about twinkies. The first one says not to defile your body and the second one has no bearing whatsoever.  Again, I don't care if you said to use all herbs or not. That part isn't in the bible, you're just adding it!

And again, here is a quote which directly adresses weed by addressing all seed producing plants. 

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Does the bible say that we can at least eat weed?

----------


## Noogah

Someone pinch me, I think I'm dreaming.

Okay, let's try this.

THE SAME THING I SAID BEFORE ABOUT THE EXACT SAME VERSE

Also, there is a difference betweeen using something, and abusing something.

----------


## DrunkenArse

So the answer is that you don't know what the fuck the bible says about anything and you just take a verse and interpret it to mean anything that you want?

I say this because you yourself point out that there is a difference between using it and abusing it. The latter could be considered defiling your body which is the only thing that that verse says is bad. And you claim that that trumps this verse:

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

So again:

Does the bible say that we can eat weed? Let me help you out.

----------


## Noogah

I also dont see in that passage where it says.

"Consume all herbs bearing seeds in the way which thou favorists."

Use/abuse. Fine difference. Yeah, he gave us the herbs. He also gave us gasoline. Would you drink gasoline?

----------


## DrunkenArse

gasoline isn't an herb bearing seed.  Does anybody else think that that's out of line to interpret it as saying that god doesn't have a problem with weed? If so, on what grounds? I'm pretty positive that it was known in the region during the time the bible was written.

----------


## grasshoppa

God didn't give us gasoline, he didn't give us anything but I'll humor you. God gave us dinosaurs which apparently existed much before adam and eve and the beginning of the universe. When they died, their remains created oil, which can be used to create gasoline.

EDIT: Jesus was a stoner. John the Baptist baptized him with an oil made from a special hemp extract which basically got you high as fuck.
EDIT2: Source:http://www.cannabisculture.com/backi...11/christ.html

----------


## TurtleLG

This may seem like a very harsh accusation (it is), but almost anyone who says marijuana should remain illegal is very uneducated.

The government did not even illegalize it because of it's harm (as there is none - even with the small possibility of lung cancer it is the smoke, and baking marijuana into food eliminates that) - even if it was because of its harm, I don't see amusement parks being illegal - marijuana is illegal because of something to do with the timber industry. I forgot the details, but you can always google that.

Anyway, if you're vote is no for legalization, research some things first.

I hear people saying this like "marijuana really kills you from the inside, and once it gets to you - BOOM, you're gone, just like that. It ruins everyone it touches." Fail.





> I also dont see in that passage where it says.
> 
> "Consume all herbs bearing seeds in the way which thou favorists."
> 
> Use/abuse. Fine difference. Yeah, he gave us the herbs. He also gave us gasoline. Would you drink gasoline?



gasoline is an herb bearing seeds??

TurtleLG enjoys the hatred on this thread. A lot.  :smiley:

----------


## khh

> Marriage is nescessary for human continuity.



That's wrong. It's just a social/cultural thing. We've done fine without marriages before and could do so again.





> Yes.  Cannabis is cure for cancer.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjhT9282-Tw



I have never heard anyone claim that before. Only that it can be used as a pain relief etc.





> "Consume all herbs bearing seeds in the way which thou favorists."



"in the way which thou favorists" meaning "It's OK by me if you want to"?  :tongue2: 





> Use/abuse. Fine difference. Yeah, he gave us the herbs. He also gave us gasoline. Would you drink gasoline?



Gasoline is not a herb, therefore it has nothing to do with that verse.





> The government did not even illegalize it because of it's harm (as there is none - even with the small possibility of lung cancer it is the smoke, and baking marijuana into food eliminates that)



I'm pretty sure there have been studies that concluded that marijuana could lead to various mental disorders and general anxiety.

----------


## Noogah

> The government did not even illegalize it because of it's harm (as there is none - even with the small possibility of lung cancer it is the smoke, and baking marijuana into food eliminates that)



Yeah...but what about the things people do when they are all doped up?





> Gasoline is not a herb, therefore it has nothing to do with that verse



Fine...fine. But, thats not my point. My point is, we USE the herbs. Not necessarily consume them. And when you use anything, you shouldn't abuse it. Using the herbs in a way harmful to your body (or mind) is abusing it in my book.





> in the way which thou favorists" meaning "It's OK by me if you want to"



Sure, but it really meant "Use it however you wish"





> That's wrong. It's just a social/cultural thing. We've done fine without marriages before and could do so again.



Fine, lets say pregnancy then.

----------


## Noogah

> "marijuana really kills you from the inside, and once it gets to you - BOOM, you're gone, just like that. It ruins everyone it touches."



I think my response to khh pretty much answers your other questions. As to the marijuna phrase, I believe that it is referring to the addicting factor of marijuna. I better words, once you start, you can't stop. Or, more realistically, it is EXTREMELY difficult to stop.

----------


## khh

> Sure, but it really meant "Use it however you wish"



Just so we're clear, when it comes to Christians that's really an argument for it's legalisation, so that people may in fact use it however they wish.





> Fine, lets say pregnancy then.



Yes, that law would bring about the end of the human race if enforced over the whole world and followed. However, can you really compare that to firing up a joint every once in a while?

Edit: posts merge




> I think my response to khh pretty much answers your other questions. As to the marijuna phrase, I believe that it is referring to the addicting factor of marijuna. I better words, once you start, you can't stop. Or, more realistically, it is EXTREMELY difficult to stop.



I'm pretty sure it's generally rated as less addictive than alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.

----------


## Noogah

> Just so we're clear, when it comes to Christians that's really an argument for it's legalisation, so that people may in fact use it however they wish.
> 
> 
> Yes, that law would bring about the end of the human race if enforced over the whole world and followed. However, can you really compare that to firing up a joint every once in a while?
> 
> Edit: posts merge
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's generally rated as less addictive than alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.



Wait...that verse wasn't actually in the Bible...that was my point

No, I guess not. But you get my point, right?

http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/DrugsofAbuse.html

Lol, no. It's rated twenty four spaces abvove nicotine. Below only one drug. Alcohol, and caffeine aren't even on the list. Maybe caffeine dosen't count, because it would seem to be at the top.

BTW, the effects of marijuna?

euphoria, *slowed thinking and reaction time, confusion, impaired balance and coordination/cough, frequent respiratory infections; impaired memory and learning; increased heart rate, anxiety; panic attacks; tolerance, addiction*

Taken from the website I gave you.

----------


## khh

> Wait...that verse wasn't actually in the Bible...that was my point



Right. I don't really get it then, but that's not important.





> No, I guess not. But you get my point, right?



Your point seems to be that comparing the ban of Marijuana to a ban of books is silly. Which I guess I agree with.





> http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/DrugsofAbuse.html
> Lol, no. It's rated twenty four spaces abvove nicotine. Below only one drug. Alcohol, and caffeine aren't even on the list. Maybe caffeine dosen't count, because it would seem to be at the top.



As far as I can see, that site does not list substances in order of addictiveness.
And I think the reason caffeine isn't listed is that it's not a common drug to abuse. Also, the first link if you search for "addictiveness marijuana" is this page http://www.procon.org/viewbackground...esourceID=1492, though I can of course not guarantee the accuracy of it.





> BTW, the effects of marijuna?
> 
> euphoria, *slowed thinking and reaction time, confusion, impaired balance and coordination/cough, frequent respiratory infections; impaired memory and learning; increased heart rate, anxiety; panic attacks; tolerance, addiction*



Most of those are short term, the first 7 only while stoned and the later tend to disappear quickly if you stop taking it.

----------


## Noogah

Well, I was just saying that since the verse was not in the Bible, it isn't true.

Well that's interesting. All the same, it seems notorious for it's difficulty to quit.

They still are technical harms to the human body. Drug abusers certainly can be harmed by them.

----------


## grasshoppa

Noogah not responding to my post =

----------


## TurtleLG

> I'm pretty sure there have been studies that concluded that marijuana could lead to various mental disorders and general anxiety.



And I'm pretty sure those studies are BS. Like the cancer study they had, where they had monkeys inhaling smoked marijuana 2/3 of the day; about 1000x more smoke than a marijuana smoker, and claiming from it weed causes cancer.

How about this: "studies have shown that boats actually run because water is polarized and the metal/wood interacts with the water to drive it forward".
Put studies in front of anything, and it seems like it's liable.

Also, would you mind reading the rest of the post, where I made it clear that even if someone disputed that section that the rest of the argument still holds?

----------


## TurtleLG

> euphoria, *slowed thinking and reaction time, confusion, impaired balance and coordination/cough, frequent respiratory infections; impaired memory and learning; increased heart rate, anxiety; panic attacks; tolerance, addiction*
> 
> Taken from the website I gave you.



A GOVERNMENT WEBSITE mate. That was a fail. The gov't says marijuana is bad, and as proof that you're right you take the gov't saying it's bad again?
And that's just the last ones: respiratory infections, anxiety, panic attacks, and addiction (it is mentally addictive though). The rest are all short term, and are extremely obvious. It means impaired balance... *WHILE YOU'RE HIGH.* No really??

And I like how you just decided to unbold euphoria, as if its completely insignificant.


*The goal in life is to be perfectly healthy, regardless of how happy you are, right?*

----------


## Traveling_Troubador

haha epic burn

----------


## DeathCell

> The world would suffer without books. The world would not suffer without marijuna. If some law comes out that says "NO MARRIAGE"
> 
> Obviously these laws must be ignored. Marriage is nescessary for human continuity. But the world would be fine without marijuna. In fact, perhaps even better. We dont NEED marijuna. It is often harmful. It makes perfect sense to obey a law that says "dont use marijuna"
> 
> No comparison.



The world suffers because of books. It's because of books and the internet that people question the government, the government always has the best things in mind for you! Reading is very harmful, while the physical and mental affects are hard to see, when large populations are educated and intelligent they have a tendency to question asinine policy, like Marijuana being illegal. A plant that has been smoked intelligently and for spiritual purposes since the dawn of man. So it's obvious to keep stupid policies in effect and to completely lead us down the right path trust in the government to decide what you can and can't do.

It's only a matter of time, you give them an inch and they will take a mile.


It makes no sense to obey a law that says to not use Marijuana when Tobacco and Liquor are both more dangerous and legal and marketed. I'd prefer to do something that doesn't leave me unconscious or dead in 15 years. But if you want to be like a sheep, and support this policy that America has been following and was started based on racial hatred for negros and mexicans go ahead. You are still ignorant.


Wheres the fireman? They've taken away drugs, except a few handpicked ones that can easily ruin society. They try to take our guns our knives, next they'll be coming at our speech.


The books will be burning in a world full of people like you.



































Why question the government? When I can never smoke Marijuana and believe everything I hear from the ONDCP, this is your brain on propaganda.

----------


## DeathCell

> I also dont see in that passage where it says.
> 
> "Consume all herbs bearing seeds in the way which thou favorists."
> 
> Use/abuse. Fine difference. Yeah, he gave us the herbs. He also gave us gasoline. Would you drink gasoline?



Where do you grow gasoline by the way???

Would really solve the fossil fuel crisis..

She also gave us molten lava, would you drink that? Does a number on your jaw.





Someone is reaching when they compare an herb bearing seed to something we fuel are cars with.

Too bad the history of Marijuana use is older than the creation of the Bible.

OUCH, sucks to be second string. Sucks to have a creator that wasn't even around during creation, that isn't mentioned in world history until the Jews..... Too bad their were so many cultures with other older gods...





> Yeah...but what about the things people do when they are all doped up?



Who really calls people who smoke Marijuana doped up, save that for people with needles in their arm. THEIR IS NOTHING WRONG WITH POT, GET OVER IT. ALCOHOL HAS FAR WORSE EFFECTS ON PEOPLES ATTITUDES AND BODIES, JUST GO HOME, DON'T SMOKE A BLUNT AND GO TO CHURCH. Your incarnation on earth is short, so make sure you ... don't enjoy your time here! Instead focus on the "future" promised to you by a man you've never met.




























LET ME TAKE YOU THEIR!! OHHH COME ON COME ON !!! LET ME TAKE YOU THEIR!!!!!!!!!!





> Wait...that verse wasn't actually in the Bible...that was my point
> 
> No, I guess not. But you get my point, right?
> 
> http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/DrugsofAbuse.html
> 
> Lol, no. It's rated twenty four spaces abvove nicotine. Below only one drug. Alcohol, and caffeine aren't even on the list. Maybe caffeine dosen't count, because it would seem to be at the top.
> 
> BTW, the effects of marijuna?
> ...



Only a sheep would source an Anti-Drug website as a source..

Please learn how to spell Marijuana.

This just in, Government sponsored websites about drugs are always going to view drugs in a bad light.



http://www.freeanointing.org/cannabi...e_holy_oil.htm

----------


## KingYoshi

Noogah wrote, Side Effects:*euphoria, slowed thinking and reaction time, confusion, impaired balance and coordination/cough, frequent respiratory infections; impaired memory and learning; increased heart rate, anxiety; panic attacks; tolerance, addiction*

*Euphoria* - A very good feeling, I agree.
*Slowed Thinking* - On average your brain has 70,000 thoughts a day. That is a little more than 48.6 thoughts a minute. Heaven forbid that is slowed down to a reasonable number at some point throughout the day, causing you to be able to focus on lesser amounts, resulting in a clearer, more productive thought process.
*Slowed Reaction Time* - There is a big difference in being high and stoned. When I'm not "knocked on my ass" stoned, there is little to no, slowed reaction time. Obviously it still is more dangerous to drive high then sober, but that isn't the arguement is it?
*Confusion* - Lol, What? Did they make this up? How do lesser amount of thoughts create more confusion? Doesn't make much sense to me. Weed does not cause confusion. It may cause you to day dream and just chill and enjoy your experience, thus causing you to not pay attention to explanations/stories creating the illusion of confusion. 
*Impaired coordination/balance/cough* - Coughing listed as a side effect? That is a reflex from smoke entering the lungs. Of course there is some coughing, lol. I don't give two shits about that. Impaired coordination and balance all depends on how high you are getting. Normal highs do little to nothing against balance and coordination. I throw football, frisbee, play games, and whatnot after smoking and I'm no worse than before. Completely stoned I probably would lose some ability, but when I'm completely stoned I don't want to be agile. It still comes down to a responsiblity thing. Don't get completely stoned if you have physical activities coming up. Simple.
*Frequent Respiratory Infections* - Seriously? I have smoked everday for the past 2 years and haven't had a single respiratory infection. You would think frequent meant more often than every 2 years right?
*Impaired Memory/Learning* - My memory was terrible before I ever started smoking and it hasn't gotten any worse. As for learning, I'm sure it is probably more difficult to learn while high than sober, but that is where responsibility comes into play. Don't go to class so high you can't learn. Simple.
*Increased Heart Rate* - Excersize increases your heart rate. Excitement increases your heart rate. Its only a temporary thing, just like excersize and excitement.
*Anxiety/Panic Attacks* - You aren't going to get panic attacks unless you are prone to getting them in the first place. Anxiety is also found in those who are more prone to it in the first place. I never get anxiety when I smoke. Some do, and all you really have to do is calm your mind. Mind over matter. That is what half of this site practices anyway.
*Tolerance* - Good weed is always good weed. You don't get much more, if anymore tolerant to it. 
*Addiction* - always debateable, but weed is not physically addicting. It can absolutely be mentally addictive, but so can yo-yos or slinkys.

----------


## TurtleLG

what does tolerance even mean? how is this bad?

----------


## Universal Mind

Noogah, it looks like you are very outnumbered in here, so I decided to bring you some help.  Here you go...

----------


## DrunkenArse

aahhhaaaaa ahhhaaaa aahhaahaaahhhhh

----------


## Noogah

> Noogah not responding to my post



What post? I'm sorry,I haven't been keeping constant tabs on this thread. Honestly. People ignore me all the time. I don't go around complain about it.

----------


## Xetrov

Did anyone already notice to Noogah that Jesus drank wine too, and that currently some scientific researches have shown that the negative effects of alcohol far outweight those of weed? What does that say about the bible and Jesus?? Sorry if it was already mentionned, didnt feel like reading 12 pages of threads  ::D:  ...

----------


## Noogah

He drank some wine. I get the feeling you didn't listen to anything I said.

There is a difference between using/abusing

Not even I am opposed to the rare, and controlled cosumption of alchohol.

----------


## Sornaensis

I don't know anybody who smokes weed and is an addict. No one. Your point is moot.

----------


## grasshoppa

> Noogah wrote, Side Effects:*euphoria, slowed thinking and reaction time, confusion, impaired balance and coordination/cough, frequent respiratory infections; impaired memory and learning; increased heart rate, anxiety; panic attacks; tolerance, addiction*
> 
> *Euphoria* - A very good feeling, I agree.
> *Slowed Thinking* - On average your brain has 70,000 thoughts a day. That is a little more than 48.6 thoughts a minute. Heaven forbid that is slowed down to a reasonable number at some point throughout the day, causing you to be able to focus on lesser amounts, resulting in a clearer, more productive thought process.
> *Slowed Reaction Time* - There is a big difference in being high and stoned. When I'm not "knocked on my ass" stoned, there is little to no, slowed reaction time. Obviously it still is more dangerous to drive high then sober, but that isn't the arguement is it?
> *Confusion* - Lol, What? Did they make this up? How do lesser amount of thoughts create more confusion? Doesn't make much sense to me. Weed does not cause confusion. It may cause you to day dream and just chill and enjoy your experience, thus causing you to not pay attention to explanations/stories creating the illusion of confusion. 
> *Impaired coordination/balance/cough* - Coughing listed as a side effect? That is a reflex from smoke entering the lungs. Of course there is some coughing, lol. I don't give two shits about that. Impaired coordination and balance all depends on how high you are getting. Normal highs do little to nothing against balance and coordination. I throw football, frisbee, play games, and whatnot after smoking and I'm no worse than before. Completely stoned I probably would lose some ability, but when I'm completely stoned I don't want to be agile. It still comes down to a responsiblity thing. Don't get completely stoned if you have physical activities coming up. Simple.
> *Frequent Respiratory Infections* - Seriously? I have smoked everday for the past 2 years and haven't had a single respiratory infection. You would think frequent meant more often than every 2 years right?
> *Impaired Memory/Learning* - My memory was terrible before I ever started smoking and it hasn't gotten any worse. As for learning, I'm sure it is probably more difficult to learn while high than sober, but that is where responsibility comes into play. Don't go to class so high you can't learn. Simple.
> ...



You're the man  ::banana::

----------


## Universal Mind

> He drank some wine. I get the feeling you didn't listen to anything I said.
> 
> There is a difference between using/abusing
> 
> Not even I am opposed to the rare, and controlled cosumption of alchohol.



So you're okay with people smoking weed if they don't abuse it?  





> I don't know anybody who smokes weed and is an addict. No one. Your point is moot.



Well, to be honest, I am.  I have been off it for two weeks this time.  I'm 37, and I've seen plenty of people become full blown marijuana addicts.  It starts catching up with people and mattering later in life.  I also want to add that doing it too much leaves me sluggish, sickly feeling, and cloudy headed, mainly because of lessened short term memory.  I am all for the legality of it, but I don't at all claim that it is harmless.  It's not.  However, it is the safest of all of the recreational drugs, and nobody has ever died from an overdose of it.  Most importantly, whether or not I do it is my decision, not the government's.

----------


## Noogah

> So you're okay with people smoking weed if they don't abuse it?



Personally, no. That's because I believe illegal drugs are garbage anyway. But I wouldn't say anything so long as it is legal. I don't really agree with a lot of things, but I'll cope with them. Honestly, weed/illegal drugs are things we can live without. I really don't think people should be pouting about a law against it.

----------


## KingYoshi

Noogah have you ever smoked weed before? If so, approximately how many times?

----------


## Noogah

None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Naya. Zero. Never.

Have not, am not, will not every use speed, or any drug besides those prescribed, or bought at a pharmacy.

----------


## Bonsay

And why shouldn't people be pouting about it? It's not harmful, it hasn't killed anyone... What the problem is?

----------


## Xetrov

> Personally, no. That's because I believe illegal drugs are garbage anyway. But I wouldn't say anything so long as it is legal. I don't really agree with a lot of things, but I'll cope with them. Honestly, weed/illegal drugs are things we can live without. I really don't think people should be pouting about a law against it.



So your reasoning goes like this: Alcohol was and is not illegal, either now or during times of the bible, hence taking alcohol is "using, not abusing". Weed was probably not illegal 2000 years ago, but has been made so during the last century by governments (for other reasons than the fact that it is a mind-altering substance, or being addictive, because alcohol also has those effects). So using weed is "abusing, not using" ... because Christian teaching says you have to obey to the laws of your current government?? Or does the bible say anything about using weed being bad??

Did you know that alcohol consumption is the cause of many multiple times the amount of health damage compared to weed? I don't have the exact figures here but I could look it up. Society word wide loses many billions of dollars/euros each year due to alcohol consumption. Alcohol is actually internationally recognised as a hard drug, did you know? Alcohol is also physically way, way more addictive than weed (which is mostly psychologically addictive, which is of course also not good, but it is usually more easy to break).

What I am trying to say here is, if you look at the facts, and think for yourself, you can see why we are all arguing against you. We're not fruitcakes, Noogah. We just dont live by a two millenia old book (which has some nice stories and ethics here and there, but that's about it, to me), nor do we usually take the law as the final word on these debates (government says its bad, so it has to be right -> since when is a government always right??).

Of course I know you are not going to change your mind. Your Christian belief is your anchor in life and without it, well I dont know, but I think you would probably feel terribly lost.

----------


## khh

> And I'm pretty sure those studies are BS. Like the cancer study they had, where they had monkeys inhaling smoked marijuana 2/3 of the day; about 1000x more smoke than a marijuana smoker, and claiming from it weed causes cancer.



Of course it's a possibility that they were bad studies, that's a possibility with everything. However it's worth mentioning if some studies concluded with that.





> Also, would you mind reading the rest of the post, where I made it clear that even if someone disputed that section that the rest of the argument still holds?



I did indeed read all of your post, but I know nothing about your claim that the timber industry had anything to do with it, therefore I did not reply to it.





> And I like how you just decided to unbold euphoria, as if its completely insignificant.



When you're talking about the negative side effects, euphoria is insignificant.

----------


## DeathCell

> What post? I'm sorry,I haven't been keeping constant tabs on this thread. Honestly. People ignore me all the time. I don't go around complain about it.



It's not much of a question why people ignore you though.





> He drank some wine. I get the feeling you didn't listen to anything I said.
> 
> There is a difference between using/abusing
> 
> Not even I am opposed to the rare, and controlled cosumption of alchohol.



Instead your opposed to the controlled consumption of Marijuana. Which doesn't cause people to be violent, addicts, or cause your liver to fall out.


Typical, you can use Alcohol, but you can't use Marijuana only abuse. You should work for the ONDCP, stuffy old men with no taste and no real clue about life.





> Personally, no. That's because I believe illegal drugs are garbage anyway. But I wouldn't say anything so long as it is legal. I don't really agree with a lot of things, but I'll cope with them. Honestly, weed/illegal drugs are things we can live without. I really don't think people should be pouting about a law against it.



You are a contradicting mis-informed sheep. You believe anything the government tell you. Enjoy your life of ignorance.

All you said is, that your opinion is illegal drugs are garbage without ever partaking or having any real experience with them. While the legal and most unproductive and problem causing drug (Alcohol) can be drank. Honestly weed has been around longer than you were a sperm in your daddies sack, and has been a key part of spirituality. Has a longer history of use by humans for sacrament than alcohol, you are nobody. You are a sheep, go bah bah to sleep. Believe what the Government tells you and live in the darkness. OMG ITS ILLEGAL IT MUST BE BAD MMMMKKAYYYYY

DRUGS ARE BAD MMMKKKAYYYY



I really don't think people should be pouting about a law against driving, after all it's dangerous and causes more deaths than Marijuana(0). 

I really don't think people should be pouting about a law against Mc'Donalds and all fast food, after all heart disease is the greatest killer in the United States, and the crap we eat is the cause. So we should shut down all fast food places, and arrest anyone we see with a hamburger.





> FORMAL NAME
> 
> INFORMAL NAME
> 
> % ALL DEATHS
> (1) Diseases of the heart 	heart attack (mainly) 	28.5%
> (2) Malignant neoplasms 	cancer 	22.8%
> (3) Cerebrovascular disease 	stroke 	6.7%
> (4) Chronic lower respiratory disease 	emphysema, chronic bronchitis 	5.1%
> ...








> TEN LEADING CAUSES OF ACCIDENTAL DEATH, MID-1990s
> CAUSE
> (1) Motor Vehicles
> (2) Falls
> (3) Drowning (Nontransport)
> (4) Fires & Flames
> (5) Poisoning, Solids & Liquids
> (6) Medical Misadventures
> (7) Firearms
> ...



Ban Swimming, Cars, Weapons, in fact lets just ban everything!



I can hear George Washington and Ben Franklin on their hemp farms saying I hope someday our legacy will control the population and what we can and can't put in our body. I hope the US has the largest incarceration rate of any "civilized" country. I hope we can spend uncountable sums of money on a war on a noun.

----------


## Universal Mind

Noogah, what is your definition of freedom, and how much do you value it?

----------


## Noogah

Okay people. When I said drink alcohol, I didn't say get drunk. That's what I meant between using/abusing. A little alchohol has a neutral effect. One drug dose causes you to temporarily lose it, so I don't support. But, like I said before,





> I believe illegal drugs are garbage anyway. But I wouldn't say anything so long as it is legal. I don't really agree with a lot of things, but I'll cope with them. Honestly, weed/illegal drugs are things we can live without. I really don't think people should be pouting about a law against it.



I would like to say that I value freedom greatly, however, I am not as passionate as I should be, having grown up as an American, and not fully appreciating the priveleges thereof. Freedom is the freedom of choice. However, there must be boundaries. If you were free to do ANYTHING, you would be free to murder.





> Noogah, what is your definition of freedom, and how much do you value it?



I think that there should be basic boundaries, and I think outlawing drugs (which I have said before are totally unnecessary) is a good thing, because it keeps people who cannot control the usage from even starting. (Yes I know, people do it anyway, but it still will provide friction, and I think it is a considerable caution)

BTW, these debates are like brain excersize. Liek excersize, they are kind of irritating, but refreshing to the mind. Just thought I'd note.  :wink2:

----------


## Supernova

The funny thing is, I used to think the same way you do about weed, that because it's illegal and people talk down about it then it must be a bad thing.  Untill I really stopped to look at the facts and decide for myself.





> That's what I meant between using/abusing. A little alchohol has a neutral effect. One drug dose causes you to temporarily lose it, so I don't support.



Pot is no worse than alchohol, probably better.  I'm still wondering when you will finally grasp that idea.  And if all pot use is abuse, then all alchohol use is abuse.  Make up your mind.





> I think that there should be basic boundaries, and I think outlawing drugs (which I have said before are totally unnecessary) is a good thing, because it keeps people who cannot control the usage from even starting. (Yes I know, people do it anyway, but it still will provide friction, and I think it is a considerable caution)



Not to bring other drugs into this debate like you are trying to, but...
Anyone who's going to use drugs will do so weather they're legal or not.  Prohibition does not prevent people from starting, in every country that has decriminalized use has decreased.  You're just going to the same tired old arguments that we have already proven wrong.

----------


## Xetrov

> Okay people. When I said drink alcohol, I didn't say get drunk. That's what I meant between using/abusing. A little alchohol has a neutral effect. One drug dose causes you to temporarily lose it, so I don't support.



Totally wrong. I realise you will ignore me probably, but maybe you can exercise some of your brain more on the following fact:

One dose of alcohol can make someone drunk, who has never before drunk it, or who drinks very little alcohol on average (ask my mom lol). So even a little alcohol can have more than a "neutral" effect.

Second interesting fact, new information for you, please read carefully:

One drug dose does not make the average user temporaly "lose it". I have been using pot for ages, and I have never lost anything. I always stay of sane mind, I dont do weird or bad things I would normally not do. I just might be a lot more relaxed, chilling, feel more empathic and have new insights, maybe see a few awesome geometric patterns on the walls or behind closed eyelids if I take some trippy stuff. This counts for 99.9% of the pot users (any pot user feels like disagreeing? please raise your hands!). This even counts for more hallucinogenic drugs like LSD, salvia, mushrooms. I have had the most beautiful and loving trips on shrooms for example, which provided me with deep insights on life etc... but anyway.

Conclusion: the contrary of your ideas is true. The drug most related to "losing it" would be alcohol. Alcohol users get agressive, violent, smack people and things up. Never happened on weed thus far, since men first started to smoke it. And if it did it's so rare that it pales in comparison to abuse on alcohol.

Do you understand this?

----------


## KingYoshi

> None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Naya. Zero. Never.
> 
> Have not, am not, will not every use speed, or any drug besides those prescribed, or bought at a pharmacy.



WHAT! Why the hell have I been argueing against this clown? All you know about weed is what other people have told you? And what the government has told you? You have never ever smoked it. What a fucking joke. This is why the against weed arguement always fails. They always have clowns on their side who have never smoked before, but fight against it like it almost killed them yesterday. Jesus christ dude, what are you even doing in a "Should weed be legalized?" thread, if you have no clue what you are talking about? Idiot, lol. No one else even bother argueing with this imbecile.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Noogah, what is your definition of freedom, and how much do you value it?







> I think that there should be basic boundaries, and I think outlawing drugs (which I have said before are totally unnecessary) is a good thing, because it keeps people who cannot control the usage from even starting. (Yes I know, people do it anyway, but it still will provide friction, and I think it is a considerable caution)
> 
> BTW, these debates are like brain excersize. Liek excersize, they are kind of irritating, but refreshing to the mind. Just thought I'd note.



That does not qualify as an answer to either question.  Please answer my questions.  Thanks.

----------


## Sornaensis

> WHAT! Why the hell have I been argueing against this clown? All you know about weed is what other people have told you? And what the government has told you? You have never ever smoked it. What a fucking joke. This is why the against weed arguement always fails. They always have clowns on their side who have never smoked before, but fight against it like it almost killed them yesterday. Jesus christ dude, what are you even doing in a "Should weed be legalized?" thread, if you have no clue what you are talking about? Idiot, lol. No one else even bother argueing with this imbecile.



People have been saying this in the Religion forum for days. He won't listen. He doesn't understand that you need to know what you are arguing about in order to have an informed opinion.

----------


## khh

> WHAT! Why the hell have I been argueing against this clown? All you know about weed is what other people have told you? And what the government has told you? You have never ever smoked it. What a fucking joke. This is why the against weed arguement always fails. They always have clowns on their side who have never smoked before, but fight against it like it almost killed them yesterday. Jesus christ dude, what are you even doing in a "Should weed be legalized?" thread, if you have no clue what you are talking about? Idiot, lol. No one else even bother argueing with this imbecile.



Basically you're saying "It's impossible to know anything about something you haven't tried yourself". I hope I'm not the only one who see how bad that argument is.

----------


## Bonsay

> Basically you're saying "It's impossible to know anything about something you haven't tried yourself". I hope I'm not the only one who see how bad that argument is.



Normally yes... but not when we're arguing about the image marijuana has and how it coincides with reality. It seemed to me that he thinks he's arguing to somebody who is misinformed or under the influence of government propaganda, in which case he is saying "it's impossible to know anything about something you haven't got the correct information about".

----------


## KingYoshi

> Basically you're saying "It's impossible to know anything about something you haven't tried yourself". I hope I'm not the only one who see how bad that argument is.



I don't give two fucks how you think about it, but I'm not going to argue with someone who is telling me weed should be illegal if they have never smoked it. I'm sorry, but weed isn't acid, meth, or coke, it doesn't have a clear cut reason that you shouldn't use it. Someone argueing hardcore against weed NEEDS to experience it for themselves and then make a proper assessment. For the record, I don't make bad arguements  :wink2:  . Clearly (but apparently you are having problems with it) Noogah hasn't a clue what he is talking about. Not on e of his posts have a good solid arguement in them. The thing he keeps bringing up are anti-drug propaganda. His arguement is useless and I really think we are all just wasting our time.

Hey Noogah. Go smoke you a blunt or two with some friends, then come back into this room and tell me how you feel about weed.

----------


## KingYoshi

> Normally yes... but not when we're arguing about the image marijuana has and how it coencides with reality. It seemed to me that he thinks he's arguing to somebody who is misinformed or under the influence of government propaganda, in which case he is saying "it's impossible to know anything about something you haven't got the correct information about".



Exactly!

----------


## khh

> Normally yes... but not when we're arguing about the image marijuana has and how it coencides with reality. It seemed to me that he thinks he's arguing to somebody who is misinformed or under the influence of government propaganda, in which case he is saying "it's impossible to know anything about something you haven't got the correct information about".



All right.





> Someone argueing hardcore against weed NEEDS to experience it for themselves and then make a proper assessment. For the record, I don't make bad arguements  . Clearly (but apparently you are having problems with it) Noogah hasn't a clue what he is talking about. Not on e of his posts have a good solid arguement in them. The thing he keeps bringing up are anti-drug propaganda. His arguement is useless and I really think we are all just wasting our time.



I don't really agree with the statement that someone who argue for it being illegal need to experience it themselves, but I'm sure it would help put things in perspective. I believe that you can find enough facts to take a stand for or against legalization without having to try it, if you want to.
However you're certainly right that there are a lot of repetition of previously refuted points and propaganda.

----------


## grasshoppa

> Personally, no. That's because I believe illegal drugs are garbage anyway. But I wouldn't say anything so long as it is legal. I don't really agree with a lot of things, but I'll cope with them. Honestly, weed/illegal drugs are things we can live without. I really don't think people should be pouting about a law against it.



What a silly thing to say. You say illegal drugs are garbage, where as prescription medication is not? Even Anti-inflammatory drugs like Advil and ibuprofen can be dangerous if you take them too much. Marijuana has ill effects, just like eating a cheese burger has ill effects. Nothing is truly harmless when used in excess. Hell, even water can kill you if you drink too much. It's called water poisoning. 

What are you trying to say "Weed/illegal drugs are things we can live without"? We can live without a lot of things. Internet, TV, video games, meat, legs, arms...But we happen to have the choice to choose such things to incorporate into our daily life. Why can't marijuana be one of those things? They are limiting our freedom with these archaic and retarded laws, that's why people are "pouting" about it. Why should any plant be declared illegal?





> None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Naya. Zero. Never.
> 
> Have not, am not, will not every use speed, or any drug besides those prescribed, or bought at a pharmacy.



Someone asked you if you smoked marijuana, then you start talking about speed. You realize the two are totally different right? Like I said before, just because a drug is legal doesn't mean it is harmless and will only do good. Many prescription drugs may help you with your ailment, but will cause organ damage, most commonly your liver and kidneys. Not only that, but a lot of prescription drugs that deal with depression and anxiety can actually cause the person to have suicidal thoughts as well as anxiety, which defeats the purpose of taking the drug in the first place, all your doing it stressing your organs for nothing. 





> I would like to say that I value freedom greatly, however, I am not as passionate as I should be, having grown up as an American, and not fully appreciating the privileges thereof. Freedom is the freedom of choice. However, there must be boundaries. If you were free to do ANYTHING, you would be free to murder.



So your fine with your government to choose what is illegal and what is not? We're not talking about people being allowed to murder each other, we're talking about a choice to be able to use a plant in what ever way we see fit. Obviously there has to be some boundaries, taking life, stealing property, etc is not acceptable. However, we're talking about an organic plant that used to be the largest cash crop in America. It was used for clothing, food, rope, paper (I believe the constitution was written on hemp paper or something like that). It's a plant that can also be used for increasing appetite, relaxing, stimulating thought. It has so many positive uses, and compared to cotton and tobacco is environmentally friendly. Cotton is known to use large amounts of water, drying up the land and making it unusable afterward. 

Bottom line is that legalization of weed is just one step of many that needs to be taken. All drugs should be legal and regulated. This would automatically make all drugs and society less dangerous. Example: If cocaine and speed were regulated, they wouldn't be cut with dangerous chemicals to increase the profits of drug dealers. Also, this would take money away from all the drug dealers, gangs, bikers, etc that make millions of the drug trade. What else are they going to make money off of? I'm sure they are creative, but I'd be willing to bet their numbers would die out over the course of a decade or so. 

Honestly, go smoke a bong nooguh. It's really not as bad as everyone is telling you it is. You will feel lighthearted, you will think "why the fuck is this shit illegal", you will experience a different state of mind, you will feel something more profound that going to 100 masses. Marijuana is not harmless, but it's as close as darn is to swearing.

----------


## guitarboy

> You are...pitiful.



Die. 
Killing is illegal because it's obviously [bad] Marijuana is illegal because of racism, propaganda, lying and misinformation.

----------


## grasshoppa

Is it me or does Noogah delete and edit his posts to make what other people have said irrelevant?

----------


## Noogah

> WHAT! Why the hell have I been argueing against this clown? All you know about weed is what other people have told you? And what the government has told you? You have never ever smoked it. What a fucking joke. This is why the against weed arguement always fails. They always have clowns on their side who have never smoked before, but fight against it like it almost killed them yesterday. Jesus christ dude, what are you even doing in a "Should weed be legalized?" thread, if you have no clue what you are talking about? Idiot, lol. No one else even bother argueing with this imbecile.



I know what I've read. FYI, I've been told by word of mouth very little about any drugs.

----------


## Noogah

> Is it me or does Noogah delete and edit his posts to make what other people have said irrelevant?



No. I never edit posts intentionally after someone has posted a reply. Of course, I wonder what gives you the notion...

----------


## grasshoppa

Paranoia from all the weed I smoke, obviously.

----------


## Universal Mind

Noogah, are you going to finally answer my questions? 





> Noogah, what is your definition of freedom, and how much do you value it?





Make sure the things you say actually qualify as answers.

----------


## DeathCell

> Okay people. When I said drink alcohol, I didn't say get drunk. That's what I meant between using/abusing. A little alchohol has a neutral effect. One drug dose causes you to temporarily lose it, so I don't support. But, like I said before,



You have no IDEA what you are talking about. People smoking weed don't lose it, but people drinking do. Who only drinks enough alcohol to not feel it at all?? Are you god damn serious, I can tell you're under 16.
















Side note to the Constitution Hemp rumor. That is not true, but a draft of the constitution was written on hemp but not the final one.

----------


## Noogah

> Noogah, are you going to finally answer my questions? 
> 
> (Picture of figure dodging a ball)
> 
> Make sure the things you say actually qualify as answers.



 ::shakehead2:: 

I gave you an answer. I'm sorry that I didn't write a book on the subject, but I thought that my answer was adequate, and I was not dodging anything that you said.

----------


## Noogah

> Who only drinks enough alcohol to not feel it at all??



I don't know. But that isn't the point. The point is, if you don't, then I think it's fine. I'm only giving my opinion.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I gave you an answer. I'm sorry that I didn't write a book on the subject, but I thought that my answer was adequate, and I was not dodging anything that you said.



Oh really?  Well then, please quote your definition of freedom and then quote your description of how much you value it.  I couldn't find those answers.  That is because you didn't leave them.  I challenge you to prove me wrong.  All you talked about was how much you value keeping marijuana illegal, and I did not ask you that.

----------


## Xetrov

> Noogah, are you going to finally answer my questions?



Or mine or anyone else's for that matter? I guess its a bit unfair, arguing 10 vs 1, I know (I tried before lol and I also quit, so I'll give you that, its a little time consuming).

----------


## Noogah

> Oh really?  Well then, please quote your definition of freedom and then quote your description of how much you value it.  I couldn't find those answers.  That is because you didn't leave them.  I challenge you to prove me wrong.  All you talked about was how much you value keeping marijuana illegal, and I did not ask you that.








> Freedom is the freedom of choice. However, there must be boundaries. If you were free to do ANYTHING, you would be free to murder.







> I would like to say that I value freedom greatly, however, I am not as passionate as I should be, having grown up as an American, and not fully appreciating the priveleges thereof.



 ::D:

----------


## Noogah

> Or mine or anyone else's for that matter? I guess its a bit unfair, arguing 10 vs 1, I know (I tried before lol and I also quit, so I'll give you that, its a little time consuming).



Really, I am doing my best. There are a lot of people not just here, but elsewhere that I have to keep tabs on. If I dont respond, just quote your question again.

----------


## dajo

Oh...my...

----------


## Universal Mind

> 



You didn't address me when you said that stuff.  Under my quote, you dodged.  

If you "value freedom greatly", then understand the necessity of pot legalization.  Your objections show no valuing of freedom.  You keep saying stuff to the effect of, "Eh, people don't need it. They are better off without it."  Some people really like the stuff, and you show no concern for that.  You have expressed no problem whatsoever with trampling on that.  You want people to go to prison for doing what they love, and you argue for it on the basis that it is self-destructive.  That is not valuing freedom.

----------


## grasshoppa



----------


## Michael

I think anyone caught with marijuana should suffer the death penalty. That's what they are doing to our kids. killing them with the devil's plant, marijuana.

Deadly.

----------


## DeathCell

> I don't know. But that isn't the point. The point is, if you don't, then I think it's fine. I'm only giving my opinion.



So no one.

----------


## DeathCell

> You didn't address me when you said that stuff.  Under my quote, you dodged.  
> 
> If you "value freedom greatly", then understand the necessity of pot legalization.  Your objections show no valuing of freedom.  You keep saying stuff to the effect of, "Eh, people don't need it. They are better off without it."  Some people really like the stuff, and you show no concern for that.  You have expressed no problem whatsoever with trampling on that.  You want people to go to prison for doing what they love, and you argue for it on the basis that it is self-destructive.  That is not valuing freedom.



Ouch, I bet the truth stings.

----------


## Noogah

Truth? What are you... nevermind.

Well you guys, I think I'm done with this thread.
_
NO, NOT BECAUSE..._

A. I'm scared

B. I'm stumped

It's for the simple reason that I'm sick of debating on this thread. I've said what I feel I should say, and this is my final opinion.

Marijuna/illegal drugs are addictive, and have negative side affects. I think that that the use of such drugs should be discouraged, and it is good to have legal boundaries put on them. 

Oh yeah, and to the people who said I did not answer their questions. I will be checking back a few times. Just quote your question, and I will try to answer it.

Seeya in other areas!

----------


## Sornaensis

Yeah, it gets tiring being proven wrong over and over by multiple people over multiple topics and threads. You could at least man up and admit it when you are wrong.

(Ƌuәƍǵa!  ::D: )

----------


## Universal Mind

> Marijuna/illegal drugs are addictive, and have negative side affects. I think that that the use of such drugs should be discouraged, and it is good to have legal boundaries put on them.

----------


## Noogah

> Yeah, it gets tiring being proven wrong over and over by multiple people over multiple topics and threads. You could at least man up and admit it when you are wrong.
> 
> (Ƌuәƍǵa! )



I already said, it's just because I'm tired of even debating. Now will you quit your acting all superior? No one proved me wrong, because this isn't something that can be proven either way. It's all opinion.

----------


## Supernova

> No one proved me wrong,



lolfail

----------


## Universal Mind

> it's just because I'm tired of even debating.





"I'm tired of even boxing."

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

Noogah, you've got to be the biggest fucking bump on the log I've ever talked to concerning marijuana legalization.  If you think what you're doing is debating, you've got another thing coming.

You have been proven wrong, repeatedly, you're just too religious to admit it.

----------


## Noogah

No one proved anyone wrong!





> because this isn't something that can be proven either way. It's all opinion.



 ::roll:: 

I'm tired of debating because NO ONE is getting anywhere. I can never drop out of ANYTHING without people being like

"AHA HA! I PWNED YOU!!!!!11!!! LULZY!!!!!!"

It's just another thread that I feel obliged to come back to, and debate on, thus another responsibilty that takes away from other more important things.

----------


## CoLd BlooDed

The topic itself is debatable and cannot be proven.  It's your 'facts,' which are hypocritical and a reflection of your *blatant ignorance*, that have been proven wrong.  But you either turn your cheek or dodge, dodge, dodge.

I'm gonna start calling you Neo, from the Matrix.  You must be the One.

----------


## dajo

> Marijuana is illegal because of racism, propaganda, lying and misinformation.



Yes and also for economical reasons. Hemp made a very efficient product, 
because it was easy to grow and could be used very well for clothes and 
to make paper (amongst other benefits). So a big point why it was actually 
made out to be the devil was because of the lobbyism by the textile and 
timber industry. (I might be wrong, but if I remember correctly it was in 1913?)
Edit: Maybe it was 1931...? I don't remember exactly

What is pretty backwards about this IMO is also that the production and the 
usage of hemp is actually a lot more ecological also, so it would make perfect 
sense to boost this sector insted of cutting down yet more trees.





> I'm tired of debating



You are not debating and there is no point, really. 
You are gullable, misinformed, have no experience whatsoever 
about what you are talking about, dodge people's questions 
or give 'non-answers', claiming you _have_ answered them, etc.
Why are you even here? I'm not going to get into a debate about 
'gourmet wine tasting' given that I don't really now much about it. 
People would be able to tell and I'd end up looking like an idiot *wink*

You have stated your opinion that's your right and you obviously 
don't need any knowledge about it to have on... but when you want 
to debate, do your homework first. That meaning, pick up a book 
other than the bible. (And nothing funded by the DEA either)

----------


## Bonsay

> Marijuna/illegal drugs are addictive, and have negative side affects. I think that that the use of such drugs should be discouraged, and it is good to have legal boundaries put on them.



You don't really believe in freedom. You're just being a hypocrite. You don't even consider the negative consequences of making a drug illegal, which isn't that big of a surprise.

----------


## DeathCell

> I think the government should tell us what we can and can't do.



Fixed.





> Now will you quit your acting all superior? No one proved me wrong, because this isn't something that can be proven either way. It's all opinion.



We are superior and you are proven wrong. You are just too ignorant to listen.





> Washington, DC:  Police arrested an estimated 723,627 persons for marijuana violations in 2001, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the second highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprises nearly half of all drug arrests in the United States.
> 
> "These numbers belie the myth that police do not target and arrest minor marijuana offenders," said Keith Stroup, Executive Director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML).  "In fact, the war on drugs is largely a war on pot smokers.  This effort is a tremendous waste of criminal justice resources that should be dedicated toward combating serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism."
> 
> Of those charged with marijuana violations, 88.6 percent - some 641,108 Americans - were charged with possession only. The remaining 82,518 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a category that includes all cultivation offenses - even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.







> Tobacco 	435,000
> Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 	365,000
> Alcohol 	85,000 
> Microbial Agents 	75,000
> Toxic Agents 	55,000
> Motor Vehicle Crashes 	26,347
> Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 	32,000
> Suicide 	30,622
> Incidents Involving Firearms 	29,000
> ...



You lose. Facts speak for themselves.

723,627 Jailed compared to 0 deaths caused from Marijuana... Wonder what the real problem with Marijuana is...



http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30
http://skeptically.org/recdrugs/id8.html

----------


## Noogah

You all must be magic! Your making me post again!?

No, you aren't "superior" ::roll:: (No one is "superior")

No, I don't believe that the govenment should have absolute say in our lives.

No, I don't think freedom is any less valuable than you do. (I may not appreciate it as much, but I understand it's value just as well.)

Yes, I believe Marijuna should be illegal.

Because we tossed this back and forth so darn much,
I'm annoyed. 
I'm tired. 
It's getting old. 
It's getting moldy. 
That's it. 
*No conspiracy*.

Oh yeah, and...

I NEVER DODGED ANYTHING!!!!!! There are like, ten people posting here!!! I was responding to SOOO many posts!! Excuse ME if I ACCIDENTLY skipped over yours!


Now, can I safely peacfully depart from this thread, or are you gonna keep beating this beat subject?

----------


## Bonsay

> Yes, I believe Marijuna should be illegal.



Then why don't you believe religion should be illegal? It's killed more people than Marijuana ever will.

----------


## Universal Mind

Noogah, I would like to see you comment on the statistics Death Cell posted.  I want to know how your relate your philosophy to the statistical differences.  Why do you condone the legality of most of the killers on the list while at the same time condoning the illegality of non-killer marijuana?

----------


## Black_Eagle

> *No, I don't think freedom is any less valuable than you do.* (I may not appreciate it as much, but I understand it's value just as well.)
> *
> Yes, I believe Marijuna should be illegal.*



Well obviously, you do.

It is the government's job to constrict some freedoms (such as the freedom to go around killing people) in order to increase freedom for the overall majority. In this case, prevention of marijuana constricts freedom without increasing freedom for the majority.

----------


## DeathCell

> No, you aren't "superior"(No one is "superior")



Apart from trying to be PC and stroke everyone's ego for no reason. Yes their is an obvious superiority of knowledge being shown in this thread. Just like I'd assume someone who has spent their lives dedicated to physics to have a superiority over my knowledge.(Someone who's put the time in to look past the propaganda and look for actual research.)





> No, I don't believe that the govenment should have absolute say in our lives.



 Bullshit, you think Marijuana should be illegal. That's an absolute say. So lets just make religion illegal.. It's addicting, causes people to think irrationally, and known to cause death. You keep missing the fact that you are contradicting yourself. You don't think Government should have absolute say in our lives except when it comes to Marijuana and other drugs except alcohol because Jesus drank it...





> No, I don't think freedom is any less valuable than you do. (I may not appreciate it as much, but I understand it's value just as well.)



 To quote Benjamin. 

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

You don't value your freedom, because your next quote says it all.






> Yes, I believe Marijuna should be illegal.









> I NEVER DODGED ANYTHING!!!!!! There are like, ten people posting here!!! I was responding to SOOO many posts!! Excuse ME if I ACCIDENTLY skipped over yours!



You dodge even the questions to posts you answer. Sorry.





> Now, can I safely peacfully depart from this thread, or are you gonna keep beating this beat subject?



 Got to beat it. Especially when people like you post ridiculous things.















OMG I'm OVERDOSING ON POT!

----------


## Supernova

> Why do you condone the legality of most of the killers on the list while at the same time condoning the illegality of non-killer marijuana?



Because he has sucked up all the lies, propeganda, and fucked-up societal standards like a sponge, and has his shead so far up his ass there's almost no hope of fixing that.

----------


## Vampyre

Here are three scenarios that have happened to people I know that influence my opinion about drugs, perhaps it will give some incite to others as well:

Tyler: Tyler was going to Toronto (large city in Canada for those who don't know) to visit someone. As a favour to a friend back home, he agreed to do a deal while he was there. At the deal, 8 guys showed up, took the drugs, and left. Because of this, the guy who asked him to do the deal demanded the money from Tyler, who obviously didn't have it. Following this, his house (he lived with his parents and siblings) received several death threats, to the point that the family had to move out of town.

Brandon: Brandon was a "runner" for a guy named Hans. He would get pot from Hans and sell it, giving Hans his cut and keeping the rest. One night, Brandon was an idiot and smoked all the pot with friends. When he couldn't pay Hans back, Hans got a bat and broke his legs.

Derek: Derek, like Brandon, was a runner (for someone else). When selling pot to someone, the guy grabbed the drugs and started to run. In response, Derek shot him in the back and is now in prison. I don't know whether or not the other guy is still alive.


All of these situations are real and would be less likely to happen if pot was legal.

----------


## Supernova

update: just some info I thought I'd share





> In the most recent issue of O'Shaughnessy's, one doctor reported that his cannabis patients had either stopped or cut back their use of "analgesics of all kinds [including] Tylenol, aspirin, and opioids; psychotherapeutic agents including anti-anxiety medications, anti-depressants, anti-panic, obsessive-compulsive, anti-psychotic, and bipolar agents; gastrointestiminal agents including anti-spasmodics and anti-inflammatory medications; migraine preparations; anticonvulsants; appetite stimulants; immuno-modulators and immunosuppressives; muscle relaxants; multiple sclerosis management medications; ophthalmic preparations; sedative and hypnotic agents; and Tourette's syndrome agents."

----------


## pringlechip

lol wow - this thread  ::shock:: 

 My opinion: people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's constitutional rights. Thus drunk driving would be illegal due to the extreme potential to kill someone. 

 Smoking marijuana can be negative in some cases, depending on the individual. The loss of motivation factor is mostly observed in middle/high school children, because they have nothing to do with their lives. Seriously, school is viewed as a chore in America by a great number of students anyway. I've known people who seemingly suck at life that don't use anything at all. Marijuana is way less intoxicating than alcohol, you can't overdose on MJ, and it has been shown to depress cancer cells. 

 Not to mention the countless religious sacraments the plant is involved in.

If we are going to fight cannabis prohibition you have to target the constitutionality of prohibition.

----------


## pringlechip

> update: just some info I thought I'd share
> 
> Quote:
> In the most recent issue of O'Shaughnessy's, one doctor reported that his cannabis patients had either stopped or cut back their use of "analgesics of all kinds [including] Tylenol, aspirin, and opioids; psychotherapeutic agents including anti-anxiety medications, anti-depressants, anti-panic, obsessive-compulsive, anti-psychotic, and bipolar agents; gastrointestiminal agents including anti-spasmodics and anti-inflammatory medications; migraine preparations; anticonvulsants; appetite stimulants; immuno-modulators and immunosuppressives; muscle relaxants; multiple sclerosis management medications; ophthalmic preparations; sedative and hypnotic agents; and Tourette's syndrome agents."



 The private interest groups and lobbyists working for pharmaceuitical companies could be against cannabis for that reason. Think of how much money those companies would lose. Think how much new companies would make.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> The private interest groups and lobbyists working for pharmaceuitical companies could be are against cannabis for that reason. Think of how much money those companies would lose. Think how much new companies PhilosopherStoned would make.



fix'd

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> My opinion: people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's constitutional rights. Thus drunk driving would be illegal due to the extreme potential to kill someone.



That's largely been my view on laws in general. Laws should only infringe upon a person's rights if the action prohibited infringes upon the rights of others. Substance abuse _can_ hurt families, but so can food, and so can a lot of other things which are perfectly legal. Public intoxication is a different story, as it harms the image of the community. 420 fests are alright as long as there is a token police presence, and the event is restricted to a given part of a city.





> Smoking marijuana can be negative in some cases, depending on the individual. The loss of motivation factor is mostly observed in middle/high school children, because they have nothing to do with their lives. Seriously, school is viewed as a chore in America by a great number of students anyway. I've known people who seemingly suck at life that don't use anything at all. Marijuana is way less intoxicating than alcohol, you can't overdose on MJ, and it has been shown to depress cancer cells.



Most of the "worthless pot smokers" I know were worthless clear back in elementary school. I have many friends that casually smoke and have decent grades (even a few in NHS.) The "amotivational syndrome" observed in young pot smokers is not a result of marijuana use: marijuana use is a result of amotivational syndrome, which is a result of having nothing to do and no work ethic.





> ...
> 
> If we are going to fight cannabis prohibition you have to target the constitutionality of prohibition.



We had to amend the Constitution for alcohol prohibition, and amend it again to repeal it. Nixon stepped over the line with the controlled substances act, or whatever you call it. The founding fathers would have been appalled at the suggestion that growing or using something should be prohibited.





> *"If the words "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."*
> - Terence McKenna
> 
> [I'm sigging this]



You also have to factor in how much money companies would lose with legal industrial hemp. Petroleum, lumber, cotton, coal... the list goes on and on.

----------


## Black_Eagle

> That's largely been my view on laws in general. Laws should only infringe upon a person's rights if the action prohibited infringes upon the rights of others. Substance abuse can hurt families, but so can food, and so can a lot of other things which are perfectly legal. Public intoxication is a different story, as it harms the image of the community. 420 fests are alright as long as there is a token police presence, and the event is restricted to a given part of a city.



It should also be noted that even though certain substances can hurt families, they don't necessarily infringe upon their rights.

----------


## Michael

> Here are three scenarios that have happened to people I know that influence my opinion about drugs, perhaps it will give some incite to others as well:
> 
> Tyler: Tyler was going to Toronto (large city in Canada for those who don't know) to visit someone. As a favour to a friend back home, he agreed to do a deal while he was there. At the deal, 8 guys showed up, took the drugs, and left. Because of this, the guy who asked him to do the deal demanded the money from Tyler, who obviously didn't have it. Following this, his house (he lived with his parents and siblings) received several death threats, to the point that the family had to move out of town.
> 
> Brandon: Brandon was a "runner" for a guy named Hans. He would get pot from Hans and sell it, giving Hans his cut and keeping the rest. One night, Brandon was an idiot and smoked all the pot with friends. When he couldn't pay Hans back, Hans got a bat and broke his legs.
> 
> Derek: Derek, like Brandon, was a runner (for someone else). When selling pot to someone, the guy grabbed the drugs and started to run. In response, Derek shot him in the back and is now in prison. I don't know whether or not the other guy is still alive.
> 
> 
> All of these situations are real and would be less likely to happen if pot was legal.



It would still happen. This is things that all dealers/users learn by the time they are in highschool. Those are easy lessons, and your friends are stupid for having it happen to them. Unless you are a kid still. Idk. Don't get high on your own supply (well he obviously wasnt messing with a lot of weight, since he smoked in all in one night. I could smoke 24/7 and still make profit)

Don't give the drugs/money away until you are in a place where you cant get ripped, and you know they have the money/drugs on them. Such easy things to do. I havent been ripped off since i was 14. If pot was legal, it would still happen in the underground market. It doesn't only happen with pot.. this happens for anything worth money.

----------


## Fossape

no, it shouldn't be legal, it should be decriminalized...booze and cigarettes should be illegal though  :wink2:

----------


## pringlechip

> no, it shouldn't be legal, it should be decriminalized...booze and cigarettes should be illegal though



nah man, it should all be legal. hell i think suicide should be legal as well. break down the social barriers! 

*PhilosopherStoned*





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by pringlechip  
> The private interest groups and lobbyists working for pharmaceuitical companies could be are against cannabis for that reason. Think of how much money those companies would lose. Think how much new companies PhilosopherStoned would make. 
> 
> fix'd



haha nice, but i always try to take a step back and look at a situation with impartiality. the law, and government too often play to social restraints when they should refer to objectivism. everything is really just chaos, information is neither goor nor bad; good/bad, and the illusion of order, and control are just constructs of the human mind used to impose the will.

----------


## Vampyre

> It would still happen. This is things that all dealers/users learn by the time they are in highschool. Those are easy lessons, and your friends are stupid for having it happen to them. Unless you are a kid still. Idk. Don't get high on your own supply (well he obviously wasnt messing with a lot of weight, since he smoked in all in one night. I could smoke 24/7 and still make profit)
> 
> Don't give the drugs/money away until you are in a place where you cant get ripped, and you know they have the money/drugs on them. Such easy things to do. I havent been ripped off since i was 14. If pot was legal, it would still happen in the underground market. It doesn't only happen with pot.. this happens for anything worth money.



While your right that it could still happen, it'd be less likely. If pot was legal, there wouldn't be as much of a need for runners. So there would be at least some distance from a criminal environment where people end up being threatened.

Tyler and Brandon were about 18 when these happened to them, Derek was 21 I think, if that matters.

----------


## blade5x

Simple: Yes

Responsible individuals are simply... responsible. Marijuana is not going to change that.

People like Noogah need to use it a few times before making any kind of comments of whether or not it should be legal/illegal.

----------


## Fossape

how about....No pot should not be legal on the basis that it has a higher carcinogen level than cigarettes  :tongue2:

----------


## Fossape

"they" should make excessively salty and sugary foods illegal ;p

----------


## TurtleLG

Noogah, you are plainly uneducated and misinformed. You're giving no basis to your sayings, honestly.

But calling this an opinion makes me lose respect for you.

Does marijuana harm you? Oh, haha, that's just an opinion!

NO IT'S NOT.

----------


## Universal Mind

> "they" should make excessively salty and sugary foods illegal ;p



I would like to see somebody try to explain why supposedly pot should be illegal while refined sugar should be legal.

----------


## Black_Eagle

> It would still happen. This is things that all dealers/users learn by the time they are in highschool. Those are easy lessons, and your friends are stupid for having it happen to them. Unless you are a kid still. Idk. Don't get high on your own supply (well he obviously wasnt messing with a lot of weight, since he smoked in all in one night. I could smoke 24/7 and still make profit)
> 
> Don't give the drugs/money away until you are in a place where you cant get ripped, and you know they have the money/drugs on them. Such easy things to do. I havent been ripped off since i was 14. If pot was legal, it would still happen in the underground market. It doesn't only happen with pot.. this happens for anything worth money.







> While your right that it could still happen, it'd be less likely. If pot was legal, there wouldn't be as much of a need for runners. So there would be at least some distance from a criminal environment where people end up being threatened.
> 
> Tyler and Brandon were about 18 when these happened to them, Derek was 21 I think, if that matters.



It wouldn't happen because of marijuana though.

----------


## StrangeDreamsGuy

Yes because it would stop crime give the government more money from taxes be regulated etc. etc.
But I still wouldn't smoke it myself.

----------


## Kuhnada29

Weed should be legalized also because of it's medicinal benefits.

For example, my mother's friend has sleep apnea, and basically can't sleep. The weed makes him sleep, but when the weed wears off he wakes in the middle of the night. 

How does a vaporizer work? I was going to tell him to try using a vaporizer that way he can get inhale the vapors and can get a good nights sleep. 

Weed is really a gift. It shouldn't be abused, like most of us do.

NO ONE has ever died from weed, I don't care what you say, NO ONE has died from weed alone. If everyone smoked weed this world would be way more peaceful and harmonious. There would be no wars, because everyone would just want to chill, lay back and have fun. 

If it were legal I would not buy from stores, but I would grow my own. 

Positive effects from weed include, but not limited to:

    * mood lift, euphoria
    * laughter
    * relaxation, stress reduction
    * creative, philosophical or deep thinking : ideas flow more easily
    * increased appreciation of music. More aware of, deeper connection to music.
    * increased awareness of senses. (eating, drinking, smell)
    * change in experience of muscle fatigue. Pleasant body feel. Increase in body/mind connection.
    * pain relief (headaches, cramps)
    * reduced nausea, increased appetite (used medically for this)
    * boring tasks or entertainment can become more interesting or funny

The reason most people have problems with weed is either because they abuse it, don't act your true self ( in which you would turn depressed, and lose yourself ), or paranoid because it's illegal.

One day I want to go to Amsterdam and just smoke some blueberry kush or some kind sativa strand( makes you more active, body high), because here there's basically only in Indica, which makes me sleepy, tired, and paranoid at times.

I actually havn't smoked any weed in like a month.

----------


## dreamnoob

i would really like to see weed, legalized.
besides, if it were legalized the governmnet would probably regulate some kind of system where the legal stuff is the stuff you buy from them, also it would probably be taxed quite a bit.
i think that they would still keep the stuff you grow yourself illegal.

----------


## Supernova

> the governmnet would probably regulate some kind of system where the legal stuff is the stuff you buy *from them*



Well I sure as hell hope not.  That would be worse that it being illegal.

"HUHWAT?"

additives.

----------


## dreamnoob

> Well I sure as hell hope not.  That would be worse that it being illegal.
> 
> "HUHWAT?"
> 
> additives.



not saying iwant that, im just saying that might be how they want to do it

----------


## Kuhnada29

> i think that they would still keep the stuff you grow yourself illegal.



yea but if you grow your own weed, then penalties would be less severe, if there would be any penalties at all. I say that because weed is only a misdemeanor. It's not necessarily something the feds tap your phones or kick down your front door for.

----------


## Oneironaut Zero

Here's an article I came across, today.
Marijuana's Tipping Point

I voted yes, of course.

----------


## Kuhnada29

Thanks Oneironaut, damn I hope it get's legalized. 

On a side note, cannabis increases melatonin( a natural antioxidant, sleep regulator, and possible autism cure[and many other diseases] ) production by 4,000% in TWO HOURS!!! It also causes vivid dreams ( the melatonin )





> The fact that smoking marijuana is accompanied by a dramatic increase in melatonin production may explain some of the drug's positive effects. A 1995 article in The Journal of the American Medical Association reported that the hallucinogen is being used to counteract the toxicity of chemotherapy, treat migraines, reduce intraocular pressure, minimize pain, treat menstrual cramps, and moderate wasting syndrome in AIDS patients.(12) Melatonin has been shown to ameliorate each and every one of these conditions.
> 
> Smoking marijuana as a vehicle to increase melatonin production, however, may not be a good idea. The increase is so marked that it is not likely to be beneficial, especially if one smokes marijuana during the daytime, when melatonin levels are normally so low that they are just above the level of detection. Causing such a dramatic surge in melatonin levels in the daytime could phase-shift your circadian rhythms or interfere with your health in other as yet unknown ways.

----------


## ChrissyMaria

I'm so tired of waiting for legalization, It feels like its being swept aside for issues like health care and other bologna issues.

We want it legal NOW! NOW GODAMNIT!

----------


## guitarboy

I'd rather it be decriminalized or legalized but not controlled by the government, which probably won't happen. I hope more states become medical marijuana state because my frequent migraines can get me some indica.

----------


## Kuhnada29

whether it's illegal or not, cannabis is a GOD_LIKE plant. And I will continue to smoke it.

----------


## Bearsy

Oh hey... what's that...? Medical cannabis has been fully decriminalized on the Federal level? No way man! You're shitting me!

I shit you not, dear friend. Look h'nyah.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/...ical_marijuana

----------


## ChrissyMaria

> Oh hey... what's that...? Medical cannabis has been fully decriminalized on the Federal level? No way man! You're shitting me!
> 
> I shit you not, dear friend. Look h'nyah.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/...ical_marijuana



That may be true but the DEA has VIOLATED this new ruling of the attorney general, MANY times.

In other words, the DEA doesn't give a fuck about federal law, they want to keep buying bigger guns and toys to battle the evil menace of drugs, what fucking saviors of humanity they are!


Recently in a medical clinic, it was shut down and busted by the dea AFTER the new ruling that raids should stop on med clinics.

Lets thank them by bending over and showing them what to be mooned is!

Fucking dea scum bags.

----------


## Universal Mind

> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/...ical_marijuana



That is beautiful news!!!!   ::banana::  :boogie:  ::muffin::  ::breakitdown::   I have been bitching for so long that Obama is just a bunch of talk and hasn't done shit, but now he has!  I actually have hope for the political future of the United States.  Excellent excellent move.   :Clap:

----------


## ChrissyMaria

> That is beautiful news!!!!    I have been bitching for so long that Obama is just a bunch of talk and hasn't done shit, but now he has!  I actually have hope for the political future of the United States.  Excellent excellent move.



read post above, dea violates obama/AG ruling...dea dgaf.

fuck the dea!

----------


## gameover

I think it should be legal, even though I've stopped smoking recently because I can't get anything done! I work a full time job and then try and put in as many hours as I can into writing, engineering, recording music. But when I smoke regularly, I can't get anything done. It kills my motivation to work. It can give me a creative spark for songwriting but it doesn't last too long and is quickly followed by laziness. It also hurts my dream recall a lot. But that's the worst of it for me. And I've smoked it a lot more than I should at periods of my life. All that pales in comparison to the damage alcohol can do. I never drank as much as I've smoked, but the drinking has done me more damage than pot ever could. But that is also why I quit drinking.

----------


## 1[Runner

It is such a shame it isn't legal. The public view on it (or should I say brainwash) is just completely wrong.

Everything in moderation is fine, and the same applies to using marijuana. If you smoke it on a Friday night when you have nothing important to do the next day, there's no problem. If you smoke it everyday to the point where it starts effecting your work and the people around it, it becomes a problem - no different than alcohol though.

Gameover, weed is not motivation... caffeine on the other hand works wonders. There's a reason that drug is legal to any age and readily available everywhere.

But seriously, after having smoked marijuana in college, my conclusion is: "how the HELL is this stuff illegal?"

By the way, I was reading some article linked by another member on this forum which had this reply about pot: "Legalize it. Treat it like alcohol plain and simple. I’m so sick of the Gateway Drug Argument. Alcohol is the ULTIMATE GATEWAY DRUG. It’s probably 90% of people’s first buzz."

That, is so unbelievably true.

----------


## gameover

I don't even understand your comment. "weed is not motivation". Of course it's not motivation. Weed is a plant and a drug. It also effects everyone differently. I was sharing my personal experience with it. When I smoke regularly-notice I didn't say often- it does effect my motivation. Just the same way being tired can effect motivation. The same way depression can effect motivation. When I smoked not too long ago, I would only smoke after I was done with everything I had to do. But I lost my mental sharpness and was less and less motivated to put in extra work. I'm a hard worker and weed did not mix well with that lifestyle... for me. Everyone's different. I wouldn't assume your experiences should correlate with everyone else's.

Pot is only a "gateway drug" because it's illegal. People go to pot dealers, who might also sell other illegal stuff. It'd be the same if alcohol was illegal. If it was legal, pot smokers wouldn't be exposed to other illegal drugs, unless they sought them out.

----------


## Universal Mind

> read post above, dea violates obama/AG ruling...dea dgaf.
> 
> fuck the dea!



Are you sure we're talking about the same move?  The story Elis posted went out on the AP about an hour before his post.

----------


## Bearsy

Yeah this ruling was announced right before I posted it. Obama has control over what the DEA can and cannot do.
The raids before this had no legal precedent to stop them. Now they have that. 
Granted they'll still raid places, and odds are they'll get medical places a few times, but not on purpose.

----------


## DeathCell

The DEA in general doesn't react well to changes.

----------


## ChrissyMaria

if only the dea was dismantled and shut down entirely, along with the cia, and all those other scum agencies and departments.

----------


## DeathCell

It hardly makes any sense to dismantle the FBI or CIA....

The DEA yes... but you think we need no spys? lol

Believe it or not, they do have a big use in preventing terrorism and keeping us informed on going ons that we need to know about.

----------


## Indecent Exposure

Why do you say we? Does the government tell you about these things that they learn?
Actually I suppose they do, they told you all about Saddam's WMDs didn't they?

----------


## DeathCell

> Why do you say we? Does the government tell you about these things that they learn?
> Actually I suppose they do, they told you all about Saddam's WMDs didn't they?



You are really dumb huh... So just get rid of all our spies... Bush is a lying sack of shit with a corrupt bunch of thugs. You keep legit spies, and you get legit information. And the majority of it will never reach our ears, that's the point of intelligence, not to telegraph it to the world.


Ok lets see how long it takes for the Soviets to get back to their old games, you kids are so young and so out of touch with reality... It's next to obnoxious.


ANARCHY, THAT'LL WORK!!! lol


Believe it or not, a lot of people in the world would love to see dead Americans.

----------


## Indecent Exposure

> You are really dumb huh... So just get rid of all our spies... Bush is a lying sack of shit with a corrupt bunch of thugs. You keep legit spies, and you get legit information. And the majority of it will never reach our ears, that's the point of intelligence, not to telegraph it to the world.
> 
> 
> Ok lets see how long it takes for the Soviets to get back to their old games, you kids are so young and so out of touch with reality... It's next to obnoxious.
> 
> 
> ANARCHY, THAT'LL WORK!!! lol
> 
> 
> Believe it or not, a lot of people in the world would love to see dead Americans.



Lets start from the top. Ad Hominem, not worth a reply.
Second, I wasn't the one who advocated "getting rid of all our spies," I was just pointing out your patriotic language and the fact there is no we, the public are a separate entity from the government, they are not your representatives, they are bastards that will lie to you and steal from you. I'm not sure if we're in agreement regarding Bush being a sack of shit with a complete bunch of thugs or wether you were being sarstic?

The Soviets get back to their old ways? Firstly, rhetorical unspecific comments with no meaning whatsoever should be avoided. What are these old ways? Secondly, you'll find that the Soviet Union no longer exists mate.
And in reference to "us kids being so out of touch with reality," I think you need to re evaulate what you perceive to be reality. The shit your fed by the propaganda system is not reality.
And believe it not people would like to see dead americans? Im very aware of this fact. People would like to see dead Brits too, and Israelis. America's blatant support for international criminals is legendary, Israel has been committing acts of wanton terrorism against the populations of nieghbouring Arab states and the refugees that it displaced during its conception for years, with the unwavering support of the USA, so please don't tell me about a bunch of crazy fucker Muslims with AK 47s and rockets that want to kill Americans, when the government of the USA supports, and aids terrorists all around the world.

----------


## DeathCell

> Lets start from the top. Ad Hominem, not worth a reply.



 Was a statement of truth if you honestly believe the US should be totally spy free.





> Second, I wasn't the one who advocated "getting rid of all our spies," I was just pointing out your patriotic language and the fact there is no we,



 That is where you are wrong.





> the public are a separate entity from the government, they are not your representatives, they are bastards that will lie to you and steal from you.



 They will lie and steal, until you figure out a way to remove that part of humanity.... But they are our REPRESENTATIVES, believe it or not they are all elected by yes, US citizens. If their is so much of an outrage towards a politician he's/she's easy to get out of office, you must realize that you are not the only person you may not have elected them yourself but your fellow citizens did.






> I'm not sure if we're in agreement regarding Bush being a sack of shit with a complete bunch of thugs or wether you were being sarstic?



 Hardly sarcastic.





> The Soviets get back to their old ways? Firstly, rhetorical unspecific comments with no meaning whatsoever should be avoided.



 This shows your lack of a background in history.  I really need to go into great details about the cold war era of spying? Other than posting widely available material that you can easily access.....





> What are these old ways? Secondly, you'll find that the Soviet Union no longer exists mate.



 You can dress a pig up, but it's still a pig. The same power figures are in control of Russia, with the guise of democracy... You can change the name but it's only cosmetic. The KGB still runs the show  :smiley: 





> And in reference to "us kids being so out of touch with reality," I think you need to re evaulate what you perceive to be reality. The shit your fed by the propaganda system is not reality.



Reality is what is actually happening, not the shit fed propaganda system of internet jockeys and youtube warriors.





> And believe it not people would like to see dead americans? Im very aware of this fact. People would like to see dead Brits too, and Israelis. America's blatant support for international criminals is legendary, Israel has been committing acts of wanton terrorism against the populations of nieghbouring Arab states and the refugees that it displaced during its conception for years, with the unwavering support of the USA, so please don't tell me about a bunch of crazy fucker Muslims with AK 47s and rockets that want to kill Americans, when the government of the USA supports, and aids terrorists all around the world.



 Israel is A. not the United states, and B. one of our biggest allies.  Israel bombed some schools or what not because some pussies hide in those schools. They continue to attack Israel they will continue to be attacked, it's not Israels fault they have better technology and tactics than certain pussy terrorist organizations. Let me guess Alex Jones lets you know all the secrets?

----------


## Indecent Exposure

That last comment was absolutely disgusting. You justify the bombing of large numbers of school children to kill a handful of militants. And no the US is not Israel but the weaponry, helicopters, missilies etc that Israel uses are provided by the US. Secondly, ona number of occasions the US has stepped in to prevent Israel receveiving sanctions and other forms of condemnation by the security council, after blatantly disregarding international law and commiting acts of state terrorism. 

On the bigger picture, your worldview is insanley narrow. No Alex Jones does not tell me what to believe, I am aware of my ignorance, which it seems you are not. Like so many people in the Western World you don't seem to understand that nearly everything you are told in the news is either a blatant lie or a gross misrepresentation of the truth; surely even an individual like yourself can understand that there is alot more that goes on in the powers of corridor than we know. There are vested interests and motives that we have no idea about. For example, do you truley believe that your government invaded Iraq because, "Saddam had weapons of mass destruction", despite the fact that through his trynnical reign the US supported him during the periods when he commited his worst crimes. Or maybe the US invaded because, "Iraq was a hotbed for terrorism," when in fact Saddam was extremely hardline when it came to dealing with Islamic fundmentalism and was largely secular, in comparison to the hotbed for terrorism that is Pakistan. Or maybe, just maybe there are other comepltely different reasons, like the US' constant expasion eastwards, the need to control oil supplies or maybe something that we have no idea about.
You seem to accept everything on the bassis of merely being told it be large corporations and the government, they will lie to you if it in anyway benefits them and you'll find it usualy does, therefore it is necessary to take most "truths" regarding current affairs, foreign policy, food, health, drugs etc with a pinch of salt. 
But this is slighlty off topic, although somewhat related so I'll leave it there.

----------


## DeathCell

> That last comment was absolutely disgusting. You justify the bombing of large numbers of school children to kill a handful of militants.



 Not disgusting, welcome to the real world. YOU ATTACK YOU WILL BE ATTACKED BACK. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU HIDE, YOU WILL DIE. 

The real question is, what kind of militants hide where children are?? Do you see AMERICAN SOLDIERS or ISRAELI SOLDIERS hiding in schools? 

Blame the Israeli's, right? After all they told these arab terrorists to attack Israel and than hide in schools?








> And no the US is not Israel but the weaponry, helicopters, missilies etc that Israel uses are provided by the US. Secondly, ona number of occasions the US has stepped in to prevent Israel receveiving sanctions and other forms of condemnation by the security council, after blatantly disregarding international law and commiting acts of state terrorism.



They are our biggest ally. Of course we help them. What acts of terrorism are you even referring to, I see you need me to explain cold war spying but can't even explain these "blatant" disregarding of international law, and terrorism... 





> On the bigger picture, your worldview is insanley narrow. No Alex Jones does not tell me what to believe, I am aware of my ignorance, which it seems you are not.



 Is that so lol





> Like so many people in the Western World you don't seem to understand that nearly everything you are told in the news is either a blatant lie or a gross misrepresentation of the truth;



 And you get all the truth right? From secret sources right??? If everything is a blantant lie or gross misrepresentation of the truth, which is a blanket statement that you have provided no evidence for.... Where in the hell do you get your TRUTH? All of the media and news in the world is not FOX news or MSNBC....






> surely even an individual like yourself can understand that there is alot more that goes on in the powers of corridor than we know.



 And that doesn't mean I claim to know all the real secret truths... as all the conspiracy theorists on this forum do.





> There are vested interests and motives that we have no idea about. For example, do you truley believe that your government invaded Iraq because, "Saddam had weapons of mass destruction", despite the fact that through his trynnical reign the US supported him during the periods when he commited his worst crimes. Or maybe the US invaded because, "Iraq was a hotbed for terrorism," when in fact Saddam was extremely hardline when it came to dealing with Islamic fundmentalism and was largely secular, in comparison to the hotbed for terrorism that is Pakistan.



 Saddam was a terrorist regime in itself....... We aren't having a debate about which middle eastern country is worse... their are a lot of hotbeds for terrorism. The US supported a lot of wrong candidates in their history including Osama Bin Laden, untold amounts of African civilizations, etc... We don't always make the best investments, what is your point?





> Or maybe, just maybe there are other comepltely different reasons, like the US' constant expasion eastwards, the need to control oil supplies or maybe something that we have no idea about.



 Believing the anti-bush propaganda aren't you? I'm no bush fan but you seem to be eating up the propaganda.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html

Iraq is hardly the country to rely on for our oil, their system to take it was in disarray when we invaded.. and hardly a country we've relied on for our oil, and we still aren't relying on them for oil.





> You seem to accept everything on the bassis of merely being told it be large corporations and the government



This is where you make a huge assumption, see I am a fact-checker.. I look for multiple opinions, multiple sources.. I don't rely on day-time television, nor do I rely on youtube video heads or fear mongers.





> , they will lie to you if it in anyway benefits them and you'll find it usualy does, therefore it is necessary to take most "truths" regarding current affairs, foreign policy, food, health, drugs etc with a pinch of salt. 
> But this is slighlty off topic, although somewhat related so I'll leave it there.



That is a problem with human nature, find a solution.. it's certainly better than anarchy.



P.S. We should be invading Canada for their oil... blame it on the BC buds...

----------


## Luanne

I have to bring this thread back. It is so ironical considering the majority standpoint, that the Dreamviews homepage has this ad: http://www.drugfreeworld.org 

It's a nonprofit organization so I guess I can mention it here...

Please read the marijuana booklet!!! Alcohol vs marijuana....then everything else written in there!

The amount of crap, the rudeness of making up crap, absolute lack of objectivity!

To be honest, I stopped reading to post here, now I'm about to read on other stuff.

----------


## Supernova

hillarious how these people think they are educating people about the realities of drugs, when really they are the most uneducated people on the topic out there.





> They are our biggest ally.



Ever heard of Great Britain?

----------


## DeathCell

> hillarious how these people think they are educating people about the realities of drugs, when really they are the most uneducated people on the topic out there.
> 
> 
> 
> Ever heard of Great Britain?



We have many great allies.

----------


## Kuhnada29

"Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest therapeutically active
substances known to man." ~ DEA Chief Administrative Law Judge Francis L.
Young 1988, ruling IN FAVOR OF the Medical Value of Marijuana.

----------


## guitarboy

Think about it, even if some day they find out cannabis kills you after 200 years of smoking it, it would be more of a reason to legalize it. It would be controled and perhaps even perfected to a state where it is everything you need without the chemicals.

----------


## DeathCell

> Think about it, even if some day they find out cannabis kills you after 200 years of smoking it, it would be more of a reason to legalize it. It would be controled and perhaps even perfected to a state where it is everything you need without the chemicals.



No thanks.

----------


## Smokey.Skywatcher

This post is getting to long, i did not read all 11 pages  :tongue2: 

I do think it should be legal, and the econemy would benefit from it.
Yeah prices will drop but there will still be A-LOT of smokers.
If we were all to pay taxes over our smokes, that would bring in millions.
Prices will only drop so-far. You still need to cultivate the plants for +/- 10 weeks, its not a easy plant to grow, it needs very specific settings.
You cant just fill your back-yard up and expect a great harvest.
If prices dropped 60% idd still want to grow it. (im not growing atm, gotta move out first  :tongue2:  )
Well ok, so growing cannabis is easy here in holland. there are grow shops that
sell you all you need, from the tent to lamps and even clones.
So if it where legal more people would be growing it, more strains will pop up
and the supply would be raised, witch drops prices. the qualety would be differant for each harvest tho.
Some grow fast and automated, all for the money. Some grow for the best strain or highest qualety, witch will still be expensive.

So yeah, legalize it, its not that bad.

----------


## Universal Mind

> So yeah, legalize it, its not that bad.



Not that bad?  You must not have seen this poster about the Satanic nature of shooting up marijuana.

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> Not that bad?  You must not have seen this poster about the Satanic nature of shooting up marijuana.



I lol'd at this one. It looks like it was supposed to be a heroin poster instead. This is easier to understand, though, if you've watched _Reefer Madness,_ which is almost the same thing in film form.

----------


## Smokey.Skywatcher

> Not that bad?  You must not have seen this poster about the Satanic nature of shooting up marijuana.



hahahaha, thats a good one  :tongue2: 
"Weird orgies wild parties
    unleashed passion"
Reefer Madness was even better :-)
we usely just chill and get al filosofical about shit.
gotta get me some of that weed  :tongue2:

----------


## Supernova

Haha yea, Reefer Madnesss was great.  I consider it a comedy  :smiley:

----------


## Universal Mind

I have never seen Reefer Madness, but I want to.  I know that it had a lot to do with why marijuana was made illegal.  A lot of people are convinced that the government was behind the making of the movie.  They probably were.

----------


## Xedan

> Not a chance in hell. It's price is high because it's illegal, legalize it and the price drops like a rock.  I don't remember what the number that the hard-cores throw around is (something like $10 billion a year) is based on the current price of marijuana.  And 10 billion isn't as much as it sounds like, considering the country is 1,100 times that much in debt.



Even if we are more than that in debt, it would still help. And the price would be lowered greatly but then even more people would buy it and it would be taxed. I could see it easily out doing the tobacco companies.

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> I have never seen Reefer Madness, but I want to.  I know that it had a lot to do with why marijuana was made illegal.  A lot of people are convinced that the government was behind the making of the movie.  They probably were.




You can find it on Youtube: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdhcNegZgU&

----------


## Universal Mind

> You can find it on Youtube: 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdhcNegZgU&



Oh, thanks.  I am going to watch it tonight.

----------


## Xedan

> Oh, thanks.  I am going to watch it tonight.



just a warning, TERRIBLE quality. ok sound though.

----------


## Universal Mind



----------


## Xedan

NO, that is what you EAT when on drugs

----------


## guitarboy

> 



sunny side up

----------


## Supernova

> I could see it easily out doing the tobacco companies.



Yea, well, let's pray there are never marijuana companies.  There is so much unecesary harmful stuff in cigarettes, they would take marijuana down the same road.

----------


## Xedan

true, true, but they'd hopefully be run by hippies.

----------


## Supernova

That's the good side.  If they're run by a bunch of hippies who love pot it would be the best thing to happen for pot.  If it were the same corporaste jackoffs who only care about money, we'd be in a bit of a tight sopt.  I doubt anything would go wrong, I'm just parinoid  :tongue2:

----------


## dajo

> Yea, well, let's pray there are never marijuana companies.  There is so much unecesary harmful stuff in cigarettes, they would take marijuana down the same road.



You could still grow it yourself, right? 
(That's probably why there aren't any)

----------


## Supernova

That's probably how they'd have it work, at the very least that would be a legal option.  And if corporate jackoffs started abusing the power to sell it everyone would grow their own and the companies would either get it right or go out of business.

----------


## Universal Mind

> That's the good side. If they're run by a bunch of hippies who love pot it would be the best thing to happen for pot. If it were the same corporaste jackoffs who only care about money, we'd be in a bit of a tight sopt. I doubt anything would go wrong, I'm just parinoid



Either way, pure marijuana would be an option. There would be a known demand for it, so some companies would sell it.  You can buy pure tobacco now.

----------


## Xedan

well I think growing your own pot will still be a crime akin to moonshining

----------


## Supernova

^good point, so that people wouldn't avoid taxes (of course, people would do it either way, it's just a matter of legality)

----------


## guitarboy

> well I think growing your own pot will still be a crime akin to moonshining



Naw, moonshining is dangerous and can kill if done wrong. I think the only way you'd  die while growing pot is tripping and impaling yourself on a gardening tool.

----------


## Xedan

^lol, true

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

It'll probably be regulated the same way beer and wine are. It's perfectly legal to brew (relatively) small amounts of beer for yourself and a few friends, but if you plan on selling it, you have to register for taxation and regulation. You just can't get some kinds of beer easily in the U.S. if you don't make it yourself (pretty much any ale or really hoppy or bitter beer.) Same with the ganja industry. They'll macrofarm the most famous varieties that everybody can name off of the top of their head, like Purple Kush, Skunk #1, Haze, etc, but you'll have to turn to home growing or microgrows (hippy gardens) to get special crosses, landrace varieties, stuff with weird flavors, etc.

Moonshining isn't as dangerous as many people make it out to be if you know what you're doing. But, people are sometimes idiots and can't handle hot alcohol in the presence of an open flame.

----------


## guitarboy

> Moonshining isn't as dangerous as many people make it out to be if you know what you're doing. But, people are sometimes idiots and can't handle hot alcohol in the presence of an open flame.



Not only that but...
James A. Bisson

What Doesn't Kill You Can Still Make You Go Blind 
Apr 6, 2004 

"I'm going back to the land of Pine to raise my tobaccer and make moonshine." 

--North Carolina state motto 

At the risk of generalizing, I think its fair to say that everybody in North Carolina makes, drinks and sells moonshine. Its one of the states prized exports, along with college basketball players, racecar drivers, and David Brinkley. But recently, I discovered that the illegal alcohol business is actually a widespread global phenomenon, like MSN Messenger, or despising America. In some of the worlds poorer countries, moonshine actually accounts for up to 104 per cent of all alcohol consumed (figures provided by the Association for People Who Dont Add Very Well). 

So whats all the fuss about? What is it about homemade hooch that keeps the moonshine industry booming into the 21st Century? And why is Clay Aiken allowed to make records? We probably cant answer all of your questions, but well try our best! 

Q. What exactly is moonshine? 

A. Its defined as whiskey illegally distributed from a corn mash. According to early 20th Century moonshiners, a good batch of moonshine could tear the face off a ferret and paste it to an outhouse wall faster than you could shave a Cheyenne goat. Were not sure if anyone actually said that, but it sure sounds like something an early 20th Century moonshiner would sayespecially if he was sucking hooch at the time. 

Q. How is moonshine made? 

A. Usually, quite poorly. 

Q. No, nohow is it made? 

A. Ohhh, right. Well, since making moonshine is still very illegal, and since Im a big proponent of jail-free living, let me just say that there are basic ingredients, which you mix together in a big silver thing and heat. When the resultant goo turns a certain color, you then add stuff. A few complicated steps later, youve got a first-class moonshine strong enough to peel the whiskers off a pregnant walrus. Or something like that. 

Q. Werent the Dukes of Hazzard involved in wacky moonshine-laden hijinks in the 1970s? 

A. Thats correct. Of course, it was their lovable Uncle Jesse who was responsible for most of the moonshine production in Hazzard County. It wouldnt surprise anyone if Luke and Bo snuck in a swig now and then. Thats likely why they couldnt get the doors on the General Lee to open, and why they always drove that poor car off a wrecked bridge at least twice a week. What I wanna know is, who was wrecking all those bridges? Was there a tornado every five hours? Did Hazzard County have a ridiculously high beaver count? Answers, people! I want answers! 

Q. What are some of the dangers of drinking moonshine? 

A. There are several million, so here are the main ones to watch out for: 

 Bad batches of moonshine have been known to cause blindness, paralysis, tics, hair loss, alopecia, erectile dysfunction, SARS, and sometimes, gruesome death. And thats just from sniffing it. 

 While the mash ferments in the woods, its common for insects and small animals to actually fall into the mash and sink to the bottom. I suppose it would be kind of like fruit-bottomed yogurtif you replaced fruit with skeletal remains of possum and bats. 

 In some foreign countries, there have been horror stories about dealers using highly toxic ingredients like car-battery acid and human feces to speed the alcohol-fermentation process. Human feces! Suddenly a little rotting possum doesnt sound so bad. 

Q. How was the moonshine delivered? 

A. If it was a local sale, customers would merely swing by the sellers place of business to pick up the goods. Moonshiners would cleverly disguise their illegal practices by hanging signs like We Sure Arent Selling Any Homemade Booze Here! to avoid arousing suspicion. 

Long-distance purchases were more difficult. Moonshine transporters used to soup up their cars so they could elude the police, maybe jump a bridge or two, and successfully deliver the illegal liquor to their blind and/or paralyzed customers. Eventually, these vehicular modifications led to the creation of the NASCAR stock car circuit, where each week, thousands of racing fans pay homage to the history of moonshine by drinking themselves into a collective slobbering coma. 

Q. How is moonshine delivered today? 

A. Mostly through EBay. 

Despite its drawbacks, illegal liquor still accounts for more than half of all alcohol consumed worldwide. And despite information to the contrary, some homemade booze is quite tasty, and free of nasty side effects. Just make sure you shop around, use sound judgment, and never EVER buy from the guy with the seeing-eye dog. 

------------

lul

----------


## Xedan

hmm, you left out the part about bootlegging and speak-easy's, but that pretty much covers all of it. Also, alcohol was first made fruity colors to disguise all those skeletons, feces, and other imperfections.

----------


## khh

> 



I've got a question.


WTF?

----------


## Xyn

I would be perfectly fine with the government making people growing Marijuanna get a license and stuff and making it illegal for the average joe to grow.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I've got a question.
> 
> 
> WTF?



 ::lol::   It was a really famous American anti-drug commercial in the late 80's. I think it was put out by the Partnership for a Drug Free America.  They showed it on T.V. all the time.  There were a few variations of it.  It ended up being the butt of a lot of jokes and parodies, as you can see by the comments that are under it now. Most of the jokes have had to do with how the commercial makes stoners with the munchies want to eat fried eggs.

----------


## Kuhnada29

Cannabis can be used other other things other than smoking...like:

----------


## khh

Wow, that makes me curious: How can you use cannabis in construction, other than to keep the workers happy?

----------


## Xedan

so than farm animals were stoned when hemp was legal?

----------


## khh

> so than farm animals were stoned when hemp was legal?



I'm telling you, if I was locked up in a stall all day I'd want to be too.

----------


## DeathCell

> Wow, that makes me curious: How can you use cannabis in construction, other than to keep the workers happy?



I think he means hemp. Medicinal uses are from Cannabis, most others are from hemp.

----------


## khh

> I think he means hemp. Medicinal uses are from Cannabis, most others are from hemp.



Right. Well, that I get.

----------


## guitarboy

> Wow, that makes me curious: How can you use cannabis in construction, other than to keep the workers happy?



Hemp can be made into plastic and wood/rope.




> so than farm animals were stoned when hemp was legal?



Hemp seeds' nutritional value is second to soy beans.




> Hemp (from Old English hænep) is the name of the soft, durable fiber that is cultivated from plants of the Cannabis genus, cultivated only for industrial (non-drug) use.
> In modern times, industrial hemp has been used for industrial purposes including paper, textiles, biodegradable plastics, construction, health food, and fuel,[1] with modest commercial success.[2][3] In the past three years, commercial success of hemp food products has grown considerably.[4][5]
> Hemp is one of the fastest growing biomasses known,[6] producing up to 25 tonnes of dry matter per hectare per year,[7] and one of the earliest domesticated plants known.[8] For a crop, hemp is relatively environmentally friendly as it requires few pesticides[9] and no herbicides.[10]
> Cannabis sativa L. subsp. sativa var. sativa is the variety grown for industrial use in Europe, Canada, and elsewhere, while C. sativa subsp. indica generally has poor fiber quality and is primarily used for production of recreational and medicinal drugs. The major difference between the two types of plants is the appearance and the amount of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) secreted in a resinous mixture by epidermal hairs called glandular trichomes, although they can also be distinguished by genetic means.[11] Strains of Cannabis approved for industrial hemp production produce only minute amounts of this psychoactive drug, not enough for any physical or psychological effects. Typically, hemp contains below 0.3% THC, while Cannabis grown for marijuana can contain anywhere from 6 or 7 % to 20% or even more.[12]
> Industrial hemp is produced in many countries around the world.[13] Major producers include Canada, France, and China. While more hemp is exported to the United States than to any other country, the United States Government does not consistently distinguish between marijuana and the non-psychoactive Cannabis used for industrial and commercial purposes.

----------


## Xedan

so just to be clear, who here *isn't* for legalizing it

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> so just to be clear, who here isn't for legalizing it



Noogah most certainly would be

I just found a wonderful resource for anybody that wants to read more on it: The Emperor Wears No Clothes

----------


## guitarboy

> Noogah most certainly would be
> 
> I just found a wonderful resource for anybody that wants to read more on it: The Emperor Wears No Clothes



Hemp clothes yay, I've read that at least twenty times.

----------


## Xedan

man, I'll have to read that some night when I'm not so tired

----------


## TurtleLG

GUYS THIS IS IMPORTANT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f9O4FFQyAE

----------


## Xedan

Lol! Nothing can hurt me!

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f9O4FFQyAE



HAH!

Scary enough, there are people that do believe that.

----------


## Idolfan

> Not a chance in hell. It's price is high because it's illegal, legalize it and the price drops like a rock.



Are you sure it will drop that much? I thought that since there would be more people buying it, it could boost. And trust me, there would be plenty of people willing to do that. 

Another point is that if we legalise weed then it'll be safer to use. These days unless you're growing it everyone only seems to be into the money so you get proper shitty deals and laced with opiates and even glass sometimes. It's dangerous stuff. It's for a similar reason I think prostitution should be legalised.

People 'lace' their hoes.

Didn't notice this thread had moved on... damn, I must be stoned and not realise it!

@Odd Nonposter; I can testify to what you said about cannabis helping PTSD. I have recently noticed that a lot of the symptoms I have experienced with regards to my paranoia were actually PTSD. I used to get irrational hunches and gut feelings but when I traced them all, I found out it was caused by my fear of hell. When I started to use cannabis most of these things went away and stayed that way. I have not become any more naturally paranoid since. One thing I noted especially is that it was much, MUCH better than prozac!

----------


## TurtleLG

> Lol! Nothing can hurt me!



Noo uuuu.

----------


## MementoMori

all i can say is the day it happens will be one hell of a day... if it happens. I have faith though... but if it doens't, i'm planning on selling my books and moving to Spain

----------


## Xedan

Well I just took a marijuana quiz on facebook and it seems I know my shit, so to speak.

----------


## TweaK

Hi guys. In spirit of Christmas, I thought I'd give you all a warm season's greetings and to top it off, I'll chip in on this thread. _The amazingness_.

I live in the Netherlands, where weed is legal decriminalized and homegrowing is tolerated within reason (4 plants per person for personal use). For those who are oblivious, this means we also get to buy weed in cofffeeshops (up to 5 grams a day per adult officially, but most coffeeshops don't care about the 5gr limit). 

Sure, there's still some street dealing but since coffeeshop weed is pretty cheap (between €5 and €15 a gram averagely, depending on what kind) and it's usually very high quality. I've been to a bunch of countries abroad and none of the weed I've smoked there has ever been as good as -any- weed I could get in the Netherlands. Then again, I didn't have any contacts so maybe if you have contacts you can get good stuff abroad. We had to get it from random street dealers (which I'm always pretty weary of, considering you never know what shit they put in there).

That aside, the generally low prices and quality of coffeeshop weed has driven down and reduced marijuana related criminality to very low. The economy gets boosted (tourists go to Amsterdam for the MJ, or tourists from bordering countries go to cities near the border) and the government can regulate what kinds of weed most people smoke (obviously not people who still use street dealers), ensuring at least some form of quality.

Personally I think the legalization of drugs is a very good thing. I was raised with all the freedom from both my parents and the country's culture and laws, and undoubtedly some/lots of people from (conservative?) families (I'm guessing mostly from the US) will have a completely different view. From what I've seen in practice though, legalization comes mostly with advantages. Disadvantages being people might be "encouraged" to smoke more since it's easier to obtain, but then again, people who aren't interested would still be reluctant to consume the drug.

I'm also for the regulated legalization/decriminalization of heroin, for the exact same reasons - enormous reduction in drug-related criminality.

Also, major lol at "I take one hit and think I'm invincible". Typical US conservative based-on-prejudizes propaganda. It's just fixation but damn, it's a nasty one.

On a sidenote, what the fuck, a sensible post from me? What?

----------


## Xyn

> Hi guys. In spirit of Christmas, I thought I'd give you all a warm season's greetings and to top it off, I'll chip in on this thread. _The amazingness_.
> 
> I live in the Netherlands, where weed is legal decriminalized and homegrowing is tolerated within reason (4 plants per person for personal use). For those who are oblivious, this means we also get to buy weed in cofffeeshops (up to 5 grams a day per adult officially, but most coffeeshops don't care about the 5gr limit). 
> 
> Sure, there's still some street dealing but since coffeeshop weed is pretty cheap (between 5 and 15 a gram averagely, depending on what kind) and it's usually very high quality. I've been to a bunch of countries abroad and none of the weed I've smoked there has ever been as good as -any- weed I could get in the Netherlands. Then again, I didn't have any contacts so maybe if you have contacts you can get good stuff abroad. We had to get it from random street dealers (which I'm always pretty weary of, considering you never know what shit they put in there).
> 
> That aside, the generally low prices and quality of coffeeshop weed has driven down and reduced marijuana related criminality to very low. The economy gets boosted (tourists go to Amsterdam for the MJ, or tourists from bordering countries go to cities near the border) and the government can regulate what kinds of weed most people smoke (obviously not people who still use street dealers), ensuring at least some form of quality.
> 
> Personally I think the legalization of drugs is a very good thing. I was raised with all the freedom from both my parents and the country's culture and laws, and undoubtedly some/lots of people from (conservative?) families (I'm guessing mostly from the US) will have a completely different view. From what I've seen in practice though, legalization comes mostly with advantages. Disadvantages being people might be "encouraged" to smoke more since it's easier to obtain, but then again, people who aren't interested would still be reluctant to consume the drug.
> ...



I agreed up with you till the legaliztion/decriminalization of heroin..  Why would we legalize something very dangerous.  The reason we want Weed legal cause it's 100% safe.  Then look at heroin, legalizing that means everybody would be doing it and thats not good trust me.

----------


## TweaK

No.

Weed isn't 100% safe. Smoking weed will put more tar in your lungs than smoking tobacco. Smoking weed might accelerate the activation of any possible "hidden" schizophrenia and paranoia related disorders (ie it might activate/accelerate it for people who are already sensitive to it, genetics wise). Smoking weed can cause mental addiction, and so on. It's _relatively harmless_, which is something other than 100% safe. 

Heroin is obviously different, often being physicially insta-addictive and being way worse for you physically and mentally. _However_, organized crime makes a shitton of money from heroin, especially because of its illegality. People addicted to heroin are -forced- to get in contact with the criminal scene because there is no other way of obtaining this drug. People who want to use heroin will use it anyway, whether it's legal or illegal, so it's best to have it regulated and controlled. 

The reason people won't massively start using heroin if it'd be legalized is the same reason not every single living person smokes weed in countries where it's legal/decriminalized: because there's such a thing as common sense. Just because it's legal doesn't mean everyone will do it. It means the people who _want to do it_ will have easier, legal ways of doing so, without the criminality.

Also, I'm not saying everyone should just be able to walk into a apothecary/coffeeshop/whatever and ask for a shot of heroin, there should obviously be some sort of system and proper information and drug education. Not "drugs are bad, m'kay", but truly objective facts and information. People should be aware of what drugs actually do to you, and not "lolz i just took a hit, i m invincible i can shoot mizelf wit shotgun LOL!", as I mentioned earlier. People can then choose to either have a go, or leave it alone. 

Personally, I think the reduction of criminality outweights the extra amount of people who would use heroin when legal who wouldn't when it's illegal, because the amount isn't that big and again, they wouldn't (or less) be getting into criminality.

----------


## CanceledCzech

NO NO NO!

MARIJUANA SHOULD BE ILLEGAL!

it gives you canser n makes u go inane and makes u sexually impotant n kills brain sells and makes u turn homo

----------


## TweaK

You're homo.

----------


## MementoMori

> NO NO NO!
> 
> MARIJUANA SHOULD BE ILLEGAL!
> 
> it gives you canser n makes u go inane and makes u sexually impotant n kills brain sells and makes u turn homo



man i hope you're meaning this as a joke, i really do... 
especially:



> and makes u turn homo

----------


## Universal Mind

> No.
> 
> Weed isn't 100% safe. Smoking weed will put more tar in your lungs than smoking tobacco. Smoking weed might accelerate the activation of any possible "hidden" schizophrenia and paranoia related disorders (ie it might activate/accelerate it for people who are already sensitive to it, genetics wise). Smoking weed can cause mental addiction, and so on. It's _relatively harmless_, which is something other than 100% safe.



Why does that make it up to anybody other than the potential user whether the potentil user smokes weed?  Shouldn't it be that person's decision?  





> Heroin is obviously different, often being physicially insta-addictive and being way worse for you physically and mentally. _However_, organized crime makes a shitton of money from heroin, especially because of its illegality. People addicted to heroin are -forced- to get in contact with the criminal scene because there is no other way of obtaining this drug. People who want to use heroin will use it anyway, whether it's legal or illegal, so it's best to have it regulated and controlled. 
> 
> The reason people won't massively start using heroin if it'd be legalized is the same reason not every single living person smokes weed in countries where it's legal/decriminalized: because there's such a thing as common sense. Just because it's legal doesn't mean everyone will do it. It means the people who _want to do it_ will have easier, legal ways of doing so, without the criminality.
> 
> Also, I'm not saying everyone should just be able to walk into a apothecary/coffeeshop/whatever and ask for a shot of heroin, there should obviously be some sort of system and proper information and drug education. Not "drugs are bad, m'kay", but truly objective facts and information. People should be aware of what drugs actually do to you, and not "lolz i just took a hit, i m invincible i can shoot mizelf wit shotgun LOL!", as I mentioned earlier. People can then choose to either have a go, or leave it alone. 
> 
> Personally, I think the reduction of criminality outweights the extra amount of people who would use heroin when legal who wouldn't when it's illegal, because the amount isn't that big and again, they wouldn't (or less) be getting into criminality.



Yes!  

Welcome back after all that time.  :smiley:

----------


## TweaK

> Why does that make it up to anybody other than the potential user whether the potentil user smokes weed?  Shouldn't it be that person's decision?



What? That made no sense. Of course it's the person's decision, which is exactly why I'm for heroin legalization/decriminalization. I trust people aren't stupid enough to massively start using it. The same goes for weed, and in practice (over here at least) it seems to be true - lots, if not the majority, of Dutch people still frown upon cannabis and would never use it. My point was that he said that cannabis should be legal because "it's 100% safe", which it isn't. 





> Welcome back after all that time.



I'm not back. I was cleaning up and backing up bookmarks from my old PC, and saw DV. Then I came across this topic, and thought I'd reply. 

That being said, I'm off again. Merry christmas.

----------


## Kuhnada29

Weed doesn't need to be legal..it needs to be MANDATORY....Why go through life stressed and taking everything so serious all the time..playing a role society gives us. 

Pharmaceuticals is the shit that needs to be illegal. Seriously...Big Pharma is a fucking joke...a big ass scheme to fill pockets with money. ADHD/ADD is NOT a real disorder. ADHD/ADD is a fraud. Seriously, look it up. 

All these so called "medications" and "vaccines" are hyped up by propaganda. These medicines just fuck you up, make you conform with society, and make you docile and slow...especially talking about Ritalin. 

This is why I don't take any medication or any vaccine from anyone. I just smoke weed, breathe and be happy. I supposedly have allergies, but I haven't even had symptoms of it for like the past year or two now. I haven't gotten so much as a sore throat or cold in a long time.

The truth is that stress of the mind..or DIS-EASE is what causes ailments and shit like cancer. But they won't tell you that, they just want your money. SO they keep on scheming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bAkrGYkV10

----------


## Universal Mind

> What? That made no sense. Of course it's the person's decision, which is exactly why I'm for heroin legalization/decriminalization. I trust people aren't stupid enough to massively start using it. The same goes for weed, and in practice (over here at least) it seems to be true - lots, if not the majority, of Dutch people still frown upon cannabis and would never use it. My point was that he said that cannabis should be legal because "it's 100% safe", which it isn't.



The thread question is, "Should marijuana be legal?" and your answer was this.





> No.



Then you went into the problems with marijuana and how heroin is different.





> Weed doesn't need to be legal..it needs to be MANDATORY....Why go through life stressed and taking everything so serious all the time..playing a role society gives us.



Marijuana causes extremely severe anxiety attacks for a whole lot of people.  It is usually adults who have that reaction, while teens and people in their very early twenties generally don't have anxiety attacks.  I would say the vast majority of people I know who have smoked pot since they turned 27 hate pot because it causes them such horrendous anxiety.  Stick around. 





> ADHD/ADD is a fraud.



You have obviously never met me.   ::lol::

----------


## Kuhnada29

> Marijuana causes extremely severe anxiety attacks for a whole lot of people.  It is usually adults who have that reaction, while teens and people in their very early twenties generally don't have anxiety attacks.  I would say the vast majority of people I know who have smoked pot since they turned 27 hate pot because it causes them such horrendous anxiety.  Stick around.



I had a panic attack on weed once. The problem is most people subconsciously are in fear..and are stressed from life basically and don't breathe deeply. Especially as you get older. 

This has nothing to do with weed...the weed just brings the subconscious to the surface.  

Shallow breathing is what CAUSES panics and anxiety attacks. NOT the other way around. 







> You have obviously never met me.



Please explain? Because ADHD is invented bra..

----------


## TweaK

> The thread question is, "Should marijuana be legal?" and your answer was this.
> 
> "No."



Haha. No. You misread my posts. I said "No" to the post above me. I had posted in the thread earlier, (post #462, 2 posts above the one that started with "No.") stating I thought marijuana SHOULD be legalized where isn't yet, and I stated the problems marijuana can cause/causes because the post I replied to said it was "100% safe". I disagreed with that. I do, however, agree it should be legal.

----------


## MementoMori

as far as the eyes can see... 



Legalize it guys, that's all i want for Christmas....
(none of those photos were taken by me)

----------


## khh

> Why does that make it up to anybody other than the potential user whether the potentil user smokes weed?  Shouldn't it be that person's decision?



Do you have any idea how much money is used on disabled people? That's also the case in the US of A... So minimizing disabilities is good for everyone.

HaRd_WiReD, you have no idea what you're talking about.

----------


## MementoMori

> HaRd_WiReD, you have no idea what you're talking about.



lucy! yu goh sum es-splaynin to do!

----------


## Universal Mind

> I had a panic attack on weed once. The problem is most people subconsciously are in fear..and are stressed from life basically and don't breathe deeply. Especially as you get older. 
> 
> This has nothing to do with weed...the weed just brings the subconscious to the surface.



But you said weed causes relaxation.  I was just saying that is not true for a lot of people.  





> Shallow breathing is what CAUSES panics and anxiety attacks. NOT the other way around.



Shallow breathing makes the anxiety worse, but it is anxiety in the first place that results in shallow breathing. That is why people sometimes run out of air and can't talk right when they are giving public speeches.  They would have enough air in their lungs if they were talking one on one to somebody.  





> Please explain? Because ADHD is invented bra..



I have had ADD my whole life, and I know first hand that it is very real.  Do you agree that some people are more "out of it" than others?  If so, then think about the possibility that some people are so much more out of it than others that they have a disorder.  Do you rule that impossible?  

I have a much harder time paying attention to boring stuff than most people, and it shows every time I have to ask people what they just said.  Even when I am trying all out to pay attention to some stuff, I miss it.  I have to read boring sentences four times each sometimes.  When I was in first grade, I sat through several words of a spelling test because I was so spaced out that I did not realize a spelling test was going on.  I often asked questions that had just been answered.  I would sometimes leave my hand in the air for minutes after a showing of hands was supposed to be over.  I would fail to turn in assignments because I never heard the teacher say they were due. I was almost always the last person to finish a test, even when I made good grades.  In college, I stopped by the grocery store on my way to a dry cleaners and walked into the grocery store with my cleaning clothes.  I  made it all the way to the lettuce before I realized I was holding clothes.  Around that time, I walked out on a basketball court and shot baskets while a game was being played.  I have watched entire movies and not even been able to say what the plot was because my mind was somewhere else the whole time.  Attention deficit is totally real.  

Do you agree that marijuana makes people more out of it than they are otherwise?  Now take that principle further and think about a person's natural brain chemistry causing such an attention diverted state.  That's ADD.  





> Haha. No. You misread my posts. I said "No" to the post above me. I had posted in the thread earlier, (post #462, 2 posts above the one that started with "No.") stating I thought marijuana SHOULD be legalized where isn't yet, and I stated the problems marijuana can cause/causes because the post I replied to said it was "100% safe". I disagreed with that. I do, however, agree it should be legal.



Oh, okay.  Then we're on the same legalize weed team.   ::cheers:: 





> Do you have any idea how much money is used on disabled people? That's also the case in the US of A... So minimizing disabilities is good for everyone.



It is good to force people into not having certain habits because a small percentage of them might have disabilities from it?  I think such policies are oppressive.  If that is how you view pot, then you need to add a ton more things to your list of things people should not be allowed to do.  You need to start by banning recreational driving and turning all grocery stores into health food stores against the wills of the owners. Freedom is a virtue.  

Also, the illegality of pot is doing nothing to keep the masses off of it.  People who want it get it, and its illegality makes it much more appealing than it would be if it were legal.  That is why a higher percentage of Americans smoke pot than people in Holland.

----------


## CanceledCzech

> man i hope you're meaning this as a joke, i really do... 
> especially:



What? Of course. Every day weed is illegal is another day the U.S. government has infringed on our constitutional rights to freedom. Every day those millions of non-violent joint-smokers spend in jail is a travesty. This shit is no more harmful than alcohol or tobacco; stop taking money from the tobacco, alcohol, big pharma, prison corps, and lumber industries.

This isn't even a debate - the 'anti-legalization' crowd has no ground to stand on. Keeping weed illegal is one of the most illogical things our government can do, considering the current climate.

Make weed legal, tax and regulate it = massive income. The economy is saved and you've created millions of jobs from the farming and processing and distribution

Make it legal, and in doing so, release the stranglehold on hemp = new national resource(the lumber industry has been lobbying to politicians to keep cannabis illegal and therefore keep the hemp industry from growing because hemp is a much more effective resource for paper and building materials.)

Make it legal, and we can finally explore its effects on us = new medications and treatments from ailments ranging from cancer to depression and anxiety. And god knows what other diseases we can treat.

Make it legal, and by selling it properly = eliminate the crime. There are _plenty_ of people willing to grow it and sell it legally - and I mean good weed. I can't believe I'm even saying this right now, this should be the most obvious point - just open a history book and look at alcohol prohibition. Al Capone ringing any bells? Christ.

Make it legal, and release all the non-violent pot-related drug offenders = less tax money goes to prisons, prison population actually goes down, and we have less societal trouble. You know, as it turns out when someone goes into prison they actually come out more fucked up than they were before. But woah, what's this? Turns out the Dutch are closing prisons down because they don't have enough criminals. The Dutch... aren't they the same people who, in essence, made every drug legal?

Disclaimer: Ok, sure, pot legalization would not yield the same results as the dutch due to cultural differences and because our prison system is still in the dark ages compared to theirs. This, however, is a different issue, one that in no way invalidates any of the other points I've made.

I mean, if you try to argue this, then you have no damn idea what you're talking about. You might try to say that weed causes this, or weed causes that. Look, bro. Alcohol causes spousal abuse, mental degradation, and car-accidents. Tobacco causes cancer in practically every organ involved in consumption, emphysema or tooth loss (cigarettes of chewing tobacco) AND it's physically addictive. I'm not saying weed is completely safe. Only idiots and children think that. What I'm saying is that weed is not worse than the current leading substances. And if you're so anti-weed, then why the hell aren't you trying to get tobacco and alcohol illegal? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical - the answer is because you have no idea what you're talking about.

I've lost track of the times I've smoked weed. Last I checked, I was well into the triple digits. And out of the people I know, I'm amateurish when it comes down to it. Many people I know make me look like a teetotaler. Most of them are perfectly fine and lead healthy lives. There is the exception of a small set who are fucked up on all different kinds of shit almost all the time. They need help. And treating them like criminals is not making the situation better.

Every normal stoner I've seen is just like everyone else. They're not crazy, schizo, enlightened, lazy, or anything. If you know some kid who went psychotic from smoking, well, that sucks. But hey, looks like the illegality of weed didn't stop him from toking, now did it? And if weed was legal then maybe we'd be able to understand it's effects on the brain a little better, wouldn't we?

Another rhetorical question; the answer is 'Yes'.

Edit: On anxiety, I'm practically an expert. To me, most of the anxiety has come from "omg this is illegal! What if we get caught? Shit, I think this guy knows we're stoned. What if he calls the police? Oh man, fff I think that car then was an undercover cop. Shit shit shit!" - or something like that. The other anxiety comes from various different sources that would basically require at least a whole other post.

----------


## MementoMori

alright then i apologiza, i was misdirected by the lack of inflection. *LEGALIZE IT PEOPLE!*

----------


## TweaK

> Oh, okay.  Then we're on the same legalize weed team.



Not exactly, because for me, it's already legal. No struggles here.  ::roll:: 





> [...]



Not every drug is legal here. Just marijuana is essentially legal (technically it's still illegal). Cocaine, heroin etc is all still illegal, though the punishment you will get will not be high at all. Our (being from the Netherlands, I say "us" meaning the Dutch) prison system might be way more humane and whatnot, but it is often too lenient as well. Murderers and whatnot often get away with "2 years conditional", meaning they walk. When they get caught for something stupid again, it is only -then- they'll be put in jail for 2 years. _Murderers_. Going to jail "for life" means going to jail for 20 years maximum, usually about 8 after which they get released. Jails are "humane" to well connected criminals to the point where they have very comfortable beds, can smoke weed, watch TV all day and even have private pools. I could go on for hours, you wouldn't believe your ears. Even though I prefer this to the American system, I often consider it -too- lenient.

That's a different subject though, as you said. Concerning drugs other than weed being legal, not really. As I said, unless you're a dealer, if you get caught using or possessing hard drugs they will usually be confiscated and you will be put on a rehabilitation programme, otherwise facing no prison sentence at all. That's the way it should be in my opinion - junks are just that, junks. Prosecuting them for stealing, murder and other criminality is obviously in due place if they commit those crimes, but being caught simply _using_ or _possessing_ is met with, I daresay, best intentions to help. That's in my opinion the way to go about handling these situations. After all, simply throwing them in jail and whatnot will only be counterproductive and won't help. Junks don't belong in jail for simply using.

To be honest, most anxiety I've had from smoking was "shit, I hope my parent's won't see my red eyes arggghhh :cccc" (particularly when I just started, being 14 at the time). When I just started smoking I did actually nearly shit my pants when this one day me and a friend went to score some weed from a friend of his. We went outside, and just as he gave over the weed police came around the corner. They drove up to us, stopped, practically flew out of the car, grabbed my friends hands and put it behind his back and (might I add, gently) pushed him onto the police car. It was my second time smoking and I wasn't well informed about what I exactly could and couldn't be punished for. I thought we were in big shit, but it was in December and they thought we were dealing in illegal fireworks. As soon as they saw it was "just weed, not fireworks", they let us go (obviously letting us keep the weed).

I liked your plea, though, and I like how you spoke well of the Dutch. I can appreciate that.  :tongue2:

----------


## Universal Mind

> Not exactly, because for me, it's already legal. No struggles here.



I assumed your philosophy applies to my country too. Are you saying you don't care one way or the other?

----------


## TweaK

I think weed should be legalized all over the world, but it's legal here and thus far from my bed show, making me care very little indeed. I'm selfish like that. I feel "sorry" for you, but I can't lose any sleep over it.

----------


## DeathCell

> I agreed up with you till the legaliztion/decriminalization of heroin..  Why would we legalize something very dangerous.  The reason we want Weed legal cause it's 100% safe.  Then look at heroin, legalizing that means everybody would be doing it and thats not good trust me.



Because their is no such thing as freedom in a country that tells us what we can and can't purchase.

Because it's not a real crime to do drugs.

Because making it illegal doesn't curb use, only drives use up and prices... Black markets shouldn't be willingly created as they are. Take the money out of the traffickers hands and into legit business.



Let me ask you, if heroin was legal would you do it?

I'm assuming that your answer is a no, so what in the blue hell makes you believe others are ready to jump on the H-Train as if it's not already easy enough to get.. No one is going to want to do Heroin that isn't already on it.

----------


## Xedan

Exactly, people should be free to experiment with their own consciousness and physical well being. Now that's not to say they should be allowed to kill themselves, but doing something that would result possibly in death is hardly the same thing. If people are stupid enough to do heroin, let them do it. At least then they've earned what came to them.

----------


## DeathCell

Let me pose something you, universal my friend.




> I have had ADD my whole life, and I know first hand that it is very real.



 Perhaps you've been told your entire life that you have ADD. Perhaps you didn't pay close attention, does that mean you have a disorder or you were just one of many children in a failing school system? We don't all work the same, we don't all think the same, we don't all learn the same.





> Do you agree that some people are more "out of it" than others?  If so, then think about the possibility that some people are so much more out of it than others that they have a disorder.  Do you rule that impossible?



 I think the ADD phenomenon is largely a combination of over diagnosing, and how schools generally started dealing with troubled children especially with the influx of children coming from the "hippies" who don't exactly answer well to authority so who really expects these kids to work well in such a structured setting when they are forced into it after a lax childhood? Now when kids enter pre-school, and other young grades it's almost as if filling their quotas of special education students will garner them larger funds... Or when it doubt , if the kid acts out... he's obviously got ADD.. Or at least that was the 90's and 80's..





> I have a much harder time paying attention to boring stuff than most people, and it shows every time I have to ask people what they just said.



 So did I when I was younger before I was able to quiet my mind.





> Even when I am trying all out to pay attention to some stuff, I miss it.



 Man, we all do that.. It's human nature. You don't have a disorder! Don't believe what they've told you.. are you unable to function? I highly doubt it.





> I have to read boring sentences four times each sometimes.



 Because you search for something that interests you, we all do that. I Do you really expect your thinking mind to get into something mundane and as you said it yourself boring?





> When I was in first grade, I sat through several words of a spelling test because I was so spaced out that I did not realize a spelling test was going on.



 You were a child who wanted to be anywhere but school, I was that child as well... Especially at that young age, our minds and bodies want to be anywhere but in a stuffy boring classroom when so much real world learning experience could be garnered anywhere else. 





> I often asked questions that had just been answered.  I would sometimes leave my hand in the air for minutes after a showing of hands was supposed to be over.  I would fail to turn in assignments because I never heard the teacher say they were due.



 You and a million other bored children around the world who don't learn best in that structured setting...





> I was almost always the last person to finish a test, even when I made good grades.



 Being the fastest, doesn't make your grade any better.





> In college, I stopped by the grocery store on my way to a dry cleaners and walked into the grocery store with my cleaning clothes.  I  made it all the way to the lettuce before I realized I was holding clothes.  Around that time, I walked out on a basketball court and shot baskets while a game was being played.  I have watched entire movies and not even been able to say what the plot was because my mind was somewhere else the whole time.  Attention deficit is totally real.



 We all have those moments, if you don't you aren't human. I often watch shows and during commercials have no recollection of what was on.. I've driven all the way to college with my paper on my oven





> Do you agree that marijuana makes people more out of it than they are otherwise?  Now take that principle further and think about a person's natural brain chemistry causing such an attention diverted state.  That's ADD.




That's the power of suggestion at it's best. You control your fate, you can improve your "symptoms".. I was diagnosed as ADD when I was younger, and I have some horror stories I could tell of what I've done.... but by high school I made them retest me and I no longer had ADD... Concentration is an art form that you can master, you have no disorder you have your whimsical nature of a child being some sort of scorn that you are forced to endure your entire life because you've always been told you have ADD. 

My parents refused to give me any ADD medication, and I can say I'm perfectly fine.

----------


## Universal Mind

DeathCell, the problems I talked about might apply on some level to everybody, but they have been extreme and stand outish for me. They showed up long before I ever heard of ADD (I started first grade in 1978, when there wasn't much talk of it.). Also, I started the structured school setting when I was 3. I started nursery school a year early but repeated kindergarten. The extent to which I am out of it is not normal. It stands out pretty big. I was singled out in class over it every year. Still, I refused to take any kind of medication on a regular basis. I experimented with it a few times when I had big tests, but it didn't seem to do much more than get me high or sick.

----------


## Xedan

Off topic, but since when does ADD have anything to do with intelligence? A failing school wouldn't be the cause, because I go to one of the states best public districts and I am in one of the highest classes. And I have ADD, along with almost everyone in that class (trust me, there is almost no learning going on in there most days, just joking around, but with inside jokes so the teacher doesn't know what we're talking about).

----------


## Supernova

> Edit: On anxiety, I'm practically an expert. To me, most of the anxiety has come from "omg this is illegal! What if we get caught? Shit, I think this guy knows we're stoned. What if he calls the police? Oh man, fff I think that car then was an undercover cop. Shit shit shit!" - or something like that. The other anxiety comes from various different sources that would basically require at least a whole other post.



Now that I think of it, that's where ALL of my anxiety comes from when I smoke.  Beyond that, I haven't got a damn care in the world.  :tongue2:

----------


## DeathCell

> DeathCell, the problems I talked about might apply on some level to everybody, but they have been extreme and stand outish for me. They showed up long before I ever heard of ADD (I started first grade in 1978, when there wasn't much talk of it.). Also, I started the structured school setting when I was 3. I started nursery school a year early but repeated kindergarten. The extent to which I am out of it is not normal. It stands out pretty big. I was singled out in class over it every year. Still, I refused to take any kind of medication on a regular basis. I experimented with it a few times when I had big tests, but it didn't seem to do much more than get me high or sick.



I was singled out, and you probably weren't the only one in your own classes... Especially now a adays... I repeated Preschool. Because I wouldn't ever sit down.

----------


## mowglycdb

Nah, but it could be legal.

----------


## TweaK

> Nah, but it could be legal.








> I was singled out, and you probably weren't the only one in your own classes... Especially now a adays... I repeated Preschool. Because I wouldn't ever sit down.



I'm not so sure about your anti-ADD persuasive argument. I do not have it and have by no means looked into it, and undoubtedly a lot of stuff that shouldn't has been blamed on ADD, but I'm not sure completely denying its existance is sensible. It sounds very possible to me.

----------


## DeathCell

> I'm not so sure about your anti-ADD persuasive argument. I do not have it and have by no means looked into it, and undoubtedly a lot of stuff that shouldn't has been blamed on ADD, but I'm not sure completely denying its existance is sensible. It sounds very possible to me.



If it's a real disorder I feel as though it was and is highly over diagnosed. It seems a lot of the time, people can't handle children and they search for a label.

----------


## Universal Mind

> If it's a real disorder I feel as though it was and is highly over diagnosed. It seems a lot of the time, people can't handle children and they search for a label.



I agree with that, but I know that ADD is very real for some people.

----------


## DeathCell

> I agree with that, but I know that ADD is very real for some people.



We must not forget the power of suggestion.


Being told your whole life you have problems, can have dire consequences.

----------


## Universal Mind

> We must not forget the power of suggestion.
> 
> 
> Being told your whole life you have problems, can have dire consequences.



Very few people have used the term ADD when talking to me about my situation because most people don't even understand what it is. Remember that I grew up at a time when society had its head up its ass about the problem. The ADD medication craze was not happening in the 70's and early to mid 80's. All I and my teachers knew was that I was in outer space through every class period even when I tried really hard not to be. The response back then wasn't, "Oh, you have ADD." It was, "Pay attention!" I am very aware of what a struggle it is for me to pay attention to long, boring stuff. It sticks out majorly and is a real pain in the ass. My thought is, "Damn it's hard to concentrate," not, "Damn, people tell me it's hard for me to concentrate, so I guess I believe them." It's a real problem that is right there in my face. 

Do you agree that there are different levels of concentration ability? If so, then wouldn't there be a bell curve with an abnormal range on the left side?

----------


## khh

> It is good to force people into not having certain habits because a small percentage of them might have disabilities from it?  I think such policies are oppressive.  If that is how you view pot, then you need to add a ton more things to your list of things people should not be allowed to do.  You need to start by banning recreational driving and turning all grocery stores into health food stores against the wills of the owners. Freedom is a virtue.  
> 
> Also, the illegality of pot is doing nothing to keep the masses off of it.  People who want it get it, and its illegality makes it much more appealing than it would be if it were legal.  That is why a higher percentage of Americans smoke pot than people in Holland.



I'm all for the legalizing of pot, but someone said that it "only hurt themselves", and I of course felt compelled to point out that it was not so.





> Still, I refused to take any kind of medication on a regular basis. I experimented with it a few times when I had big tests, but it didn't seem to do much more than get me high or sick.



Medication does work for some people, though. I've got a friend with ADHD, and mostly you can't really tell he's got it, he just seems a bit more enthusiastic, energised and impatient than most people, but if you're with him during the evening and night when the medication starts wearing off, you there's a huge difference.

----------


## DeathCell

> Very few people have used the term ADD when talking to me about my situation because most people don't even understand what it is. Remember that I grew up at a time when society had its head up its ass about the problem. The ADD medication craze was not happening in the 70's and early to mid 80's. All I and my teachers knew was that I was in outer space through every class period even when I tried really hard not to be. The response back then wasn't, "Oh, you have ADD." It was, "Pay attention!" I am very aware of what a struggle it is for me to pay attention to long, boring stuff. It sticks out majorly and is a real pain in the ass. My thought is, "Damn it's hard to concentrate," not, "Damn, people tell me it's hard for me to concentrate, so I guess I believe them." It's a real problem that is right there in my face. 
> 
> Do you agree that there are different levels of concentration ability? If so, then wouldn't there be a bell curve with an abnormal range on the left side?



The question is it really a disorder or just another way of living...

----------


## Universal Mind

> I'm all for the legalizing of pot, but someone said that it "only hurt themselves", and I of course felt compelled to point out that it was not so.



You talked about tar on lungs and other personal problems.  Also, I don't think marijuana causes Schizophrenia.  It takes a genetic predisposition plus a MAJOR stressor for a person to become schizophrenic.  Plus, the illegality of pot does not keep the masses off of it.  It just makes pot more attractive to the rebellious and creates dangerous underground markets.  





> Medication does work for some people, though. I've got a friend with ADHD, and mostly you can't really tell he's got it, he just seems a bit more enthusiastic, energised and impatient than most people, but if you're with him during the evening and night when the medication starts wearing off, you there's a huge difference.



Medication works on most people with ADD, but it never worked on me.  





> The question is it really a disorder or just another way of living...



For me, it has been a disorder.  It doesn't really affect my life that bad now, but it was a really big problem for me in school.

----------


## DeathCell

> For me, it has been a disorder.  It doesn't really affect my life that bad now, but it was a really big problem for me in school.




It doesn't affect your life that bad because you aren't I'm assuming stuck in a building staring at a teacher for 6 - 8 hours.... talking about stuff you could careless about.

Perhaps, the problem comes from treating all children the same, and expecting us all to work well and learn in that type of environment... Especially since it doesn't really affect your life anymore.

----------


## TweaK

I like how this topic fully went from marijuana to ADD in one post.

----------


## DeathCell

The Marijuana horse is already beaten to a pulp anyway.

----------


## Vranna

I think marijuana should be legalized where it isn't yet.

----------


## khh

> You talked about tar on lungs and other personal problems.



That I did. Even though I'm for legalizing it, I don't want all the potential problems to be swept under the carpet.





> Also, I don't think marijuana causes Schizophrenia.  It takes a genetic predisposition plus a MAJOR stressor for a person to become schizophrenic.



I'm pretty sure it's commonly accepted amongst experts on the field that cannabis elevates the chances of contracting schizophrenia. At the very least there should be further studies on the subject. But it's only been seen in conjunction with a genetic predisposition, yes. But how would you know if you've got that?





> Plus, the illegality of pot does not keep the masses off of it.  It just makes pot more attractive to the rebellious and creates dangerous underground markets.



This is true. Personally I think there would be a huge upswing in the use just when it got legalized since everyone would want to try it, and then users would gradually dwindle until there were less than before legalization.





> Medication works on most people with ADD, but it never worked on me.



Bad luck, then.

----------


## Xedan

yea, I used to have ADD problems, and the day they started me taking two different pills together, I got sent to an alternative school for two months. Thanks, psychiatrists.

But who am I to complain, I LOVED it there.

----------


## Praise

How can you make a plant illegal. It's ridiculious.

----------


## Xedan

> How can you make a plant illegal. It's ridiculious.



By scaring sheep with dumb propaganda.

----------


## Xedan

> By scaring sheep with dumb propaganda.



In a fake debate between fake debate at school between the group of "Patriots" and "Loyalists", I was on the patriots and we won, even though our poster said "King George eats babies!" along with a detailed picture.

Propaganda is a powerful force. Even if you know that's all it is, it still can be difficult to totally bypass it.

----------


## Universal Mind

> By scaring sheep with dumb propaganda.

----------


## Xedan

How the hell can trying to e-mail Uranus be harmful? Or any of those?

They contradict themselves by saying weed is bad BECAUSE it's illegal. If a night in jail is harmful, DON'T MAKE IT FUCKING ILLEGAL!

----------


## Supernova

"made a hat out of ground beef"?  I'm tellin' you, some graphic designer was hittin' a joint and making that poster.

----------


## Xedan

Oh, lol. I thought it said made out with ground beef. But either way, it's still harmless. That's like saying we should make stupid people in general illegal.

----------


## StonedApe

> In a fake debate between fake debate at school between the group of "Patriots" and "Loyalists", I was on the patriots and we won, even though our poster said "King George eats babies!" along with a detailed picture.
> 
> Propaganda is a powerful force. Even if you know that's all it is, it still can be difficult to totally bypass it.



I think the only reason why it's still illegal is that we don't have any real political debate in this country anymore. But I suppose even if we did the propaganda still might win.

How the  can you make a hat out of ground beef? And is that third spliff rolled with wallpaper?

Taxes, prohibition, censorship, and war.
Government, Harmless?

----------


## Kuhnada29

> The Marijuana horse is already beaten to a pulp anyway.



yes, it's already dead...why keep beating it.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I think marijuana should be legalized where it isn't yet.



I don't know about that.  Bill O'Reilly has informed me of what a nightmare Holland is now because of the legal pot. Isn't it where all of the serial killers live?  





> yes, it's already dead...why keep beating it.



The drug war is not dead. Let's keep beating it until it is. Then let's beat it some more.

----------


## Xedan

Just a rough go at it:

----------


## StonedApe

Nice. Now we just need to publish it in some magazines.

----------


## Xedan

Did they really make Salvia illegal?

----------


## StonedApe

Yep, at least in Ohio. I think that they're only doing it at the state level, which is something I guess. I can drive 15 minutes and get some in michigan. Idiots and their youtube videos.

----------


## Xedan

Well i heard they passed a federal bill banning it. And what video?

----------


## Supernova

about 20,000 of them.

Hey look, I can do this too!



I think we all know what drugs this is and isn't referring to...

----------


## StonedApe

> about 20,000 of them.

----------


## DrunkenArse

> I don't know about that.  Bill O'Reilly has informed me of what a nightmare Holland is now because of the legal pot. Isn't it where all of the serial killers live?



OH MY!  I didn't realize that Papa Bear was against legalization!  If that's the case I rescind my 'yes' vote. How embarrassing. Serves me right for smoking weed.

----------


## Xedan

> 



Damn them. No worries. I'm not old enough to get it right now, but I'm sure if it's illegal by the time I am then I can just go to Amsterdam and try some pot too.

----------


## dajo

> Did they really make Salvia illegal?



Salvia compared to Weed? Hm. Not THAT much of a surprise. 

My guess is that  the reason for it being legal for so long is that not enough 
people were aware of it. Another guess I'm venturing is that those thousands 
of irresponsible Youtube Videos on it helped to get it where it's now. 

In Germany it's illegal since 2008 if I remember correctly.

----------


## Maria92

Yes, it should be legal.
1. It does less damage to a person than drinking, especially if a vaporizer is used.
2. By legalizing it (or at least decriminalizing it), many more people could be kept out of jail at a huge savings.
3. By regulating/taxing it, the government could expect serious revenue. 
4. We are seeing exactly what we saw during prohibition with alcohol, and in case nobody remembers history class, bad shit went down in prohibition. 
5. It has all the gateway-drug potentials of alcohol, which kids use anyway.

I would probably never use the stuff, but it's just plain stupid to make it a criminal offense to be in possession of the stuff. I'm up for decriminalizing it at the very least.

----------


## DeathCell

Omg I just smoked a bowl and forgot my name!!!

HAHAAHA

----------


## Captain Sleepalot

Yes, it should be legal.

Personally, I would raise it and rather than smoke it just make tea bags out of it and just drink it. I already smoke cigarettes as it is (definitely need to stop), so I don't need to fill my lungs with more crap than is already in there.

----------


## SKA

I am stoned out of my mind allmost dayly. It has never caused me to spend a night in Jail. It has never influenced me to do immoral behaviour. It has never moved me to be violent.
It has never moved me into psychosis.

In fact Cannabis has proved itself to be very effective at aborting Psychosis. Also it is a superbly effective stress reducing medicine. Namely Psychosis isn't a state that can suddenly occur; It is more like a process of deep emotional, psychological stress that builds up over time to the point that the container(your mind or soul if you will) explodes.

Smoking Cannabis on a regulair basis is incredibly effective release of this built-up stress and so it also works like a psychosis prevention medicine.

The fact that you can get high for recreational purposes is but one of the effects of Cannabis and it is often seen as the only, most outstanding quality.

However the aforementioned medicinal qualities of Cannabis is what I think makes it such an ideal psychological medicine.

----------


## Maria92

> Yes, it should be legal.
> 
> Personally, I would raise it and rather than smoke it just make tea bags out of it and just drink it. I already smoke cigarettes as it is (definitely need to stop), so I don't need to fill my lungs with more crap than is already in there.



...or you could just use a vaporizer...

----------


## Captain Sleepalot

> ...or you could just use a vaporizer...



True, I've never tried a vaporizer before but aren't they kind of expensive?

The only one I've ever seen in action was the one Doug Benson used in his movie "Super High Me", and that whole business of filling up that plastic bag with the vapor first and then trying to suck it down whilst the bag flops around in the wind seems a bit tedious to me.

I am pretty sure that not all vaporizers require the bag component though, is that correct?

----------


## DeathCell

If you consider 50 + expensive... 

The best ones are more in the hundred + area, but if you think that is expensive... I'm assuming you don't own a house or car?

----------


## Captain Sleepalot

> The best ones are more in the hundred + area, but if you think that is expensive... I'm assuming you don't own a house or car?



I own both, and do so because I don't spend money frivolously.

Is $50 that much to me?

Compared to how much money I have, absolutely not, but I still don't see myself paying $50-$100 for a vaporizer. 

I don't smoke enough to justify it. Putting dope in tea bags and drinking it works fine, but I will smoke the occasional joint if someone else has one.

----------


## StonedApe

Has anyone else made a vape with a lightbulb before? I don't really like it. It feels like it's harsher on your throat.

If you like drinking it you should try making cream and putting it in chi tea. SOOOO delicious. And it's pretty easy to do. Just put 2 tbs of butter in a small pan, put some ganja in and fry it until it starts to brown and release THC(the butter will start to turn brown too). Then you _can_ throw a shot of vodka in to get it to release some more THC, but it is not exactly safe to throw alchohal into a hot pan. I like to live dangerously. Then put in 1-2 cups of milk depending on how much you wanna drink.

----------


## Vranna

> I don't know about that.  Bill O'Reilly has informed me of what a nightmare Holland is now because of the legal pot. Isn't it where all of the serial killers live?



What nightmare is it then? And where are those serial killers? Please inform me. I've been living in the netherlands for almost all my life but had never heard of the things you're talking about. I think it's just like here we think all the serial killers are in the USA haha....

----------


## Universal Mind

> What nightmare is it then? And where are those serial killers? Please inform me. I've been living in the netherlands for almost all my life but had never heard of the things you're talking about. I think it's just like here we think all the serial killers are in the USA haha....



Here's a hint.

----------


## DeathCell

> I own both, and do so because I don't spend money frivolously.
> 
> Is $50 that much to me?
> 
> Compared to how much money I have, absolutely not, but I still don't see myself paying $50-$100 for a vaporizer. 
> 
> I don't smoke enough to justify it. Putting dope in tea bags and drinking it works fine, but I will smoke the occasional joint if someone else has one.



You go through the trouble of making tea, but can't splurge on a vap? It's worth it if you are worried about the negative effects of smoking, and want to inhale... Tea is a different high...

----------


## Speesh

Vaporizers are economical as well. You'll save in the long run, trust me. 





> Has anyone else made a vape with a lightbulb before? I don't really like it. It feels like it's harsher on your throat.



Yeah, I definitely agree with that. A bunch of my friends and I had one for a while before we finally invested in a proper vape. I had some miserable coughing fits with that thing. Effective, but harsh. 

Also, its really awkward when your roommates dad sees it on your desk. I looked like a goddamn crackhead.

----------


## Captain Sleepalot

> You go through the trouble of making tea, but can't splurge on a vap? It's worth it if you are worried about the negative effects of smoking, and want to inhale... Tea is a different high...



I agree tea is a different high, to me it is not as strong...which is why I do it that way (which is infrequently, by the way). I don't like to get stoned out of my mind anymore, which can happen very easily when I smoke.

I'm not saying I'll never try a vaporizer or that it's not a good idea, but I doubt I am going to buy one anytime soon.

----------


## Universal Mind

More INSANE propaganda: 



By the way, why the Hell are they cave men?

----------


## Kromoh

> By scaring sheep with dumb propaganda.



UM, this also applies to propaganda about socialism being bad or evil or promoting poverty, you know. I don't see how a system whose basic premise is that everyone gets the same amount of money is wrong.

Now back on topic..

----------


## Maria92

> UM, this also applies to propaganda about socialism being bad or evil or promoting poverty, you know. I don't see how a system whose basic premise is that everyone gets the same amount of money is wrong.
> 
> Now back on topic..



I see that it is wrong because some people DESERVE to have more money. Which is fair: a person goes to med school for 10 years, slaves away, and makes the same amount of money that Joe Schlub makes as an auto mechanic, or the doctor makes substantially more? In my opinion the guy who went to med school EARNED that money. Why should the mechanic get the same amount for taking the easy way out? It makes no sense...capitalism can be a good thing.  :wink2: 

NOW, back on-topic...Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.

----------


## Kromoh

Yeah, some people deserve to have more money. However, a person born in Africa will never have more money than a person born in Europe, regardless of him/her deserving it. Capitalism is not a meritocracy. A meritocracy would be fair. Capitalism isn't.

Even deserving is relative. People with better conditions as children develop their intellect more, and thus "deserve" more in the end. All this "deserve" thing is but a way of putting a mask on how much Capitalism promotes social inequality and status quo. Your potential is only decided by how much opportunity you have as a child.

----------


## Universal Mind

> UM, this also applies to propaganda about socialism being bad or evil or promoting poverty, you know. I don't see how a system whose basic premise is that everyone gets the same amount of money is wrong.
> 
> Now back on topic..



I think I've shown you that my reasoning concerning socialism involves something far better than mere images and fabrications.  Lack of incentive leads to lack of effort.  That is why businesses in the Soviet Union were pathetic and the economy struggled like Hell.  It's pretty easy to understand. 

This post makes our exchange in here even.  If you want to argue about your La La Land economic fantasies involving people working really hard just because it feels good, take it up with me in a socialism thread.

----------


## Kromoh

> I think I've shown you that my reasoning concerning socialism involves something far better than mere images and fabrications.  Lack of incentive leads to lack of effort.  That is why businesses in the Soviet Union were pathetic and the economy struggled like Hell.  It's pretty easy to understand. 
> 
> This post makes our exchange in here even.  If you want to argue about your La La Land economic fantasies involving people working really hard just because it feels good, take it up with me in a socialism thread.



Lack of incentive doesn't lead to lack of effort. Ever heard of a thing called Third Sector?????????????????

Yes, businesses in the Soviet Union were pathetic. They didn't go for profit. They only tried to serve the population. That's why it's called "socialism". FIY, it worked perfectly well, and the only thing that made the economy ruin was the wastes with weapons, defense, and war technology. No Soviet ever starved during the Soviet Union. But of course you don't know this, you talk without knowing what exactly happened. You just guess and think you're right. Let me teach you something: in History, you don't opine, you read.

----------


## Maria92

> Lack of incentive doesn't lead to lack of effort. Ever heard of a thing called Third Sector?????????????????
> 
> Yes, businesses in the Soviet Union were pathetic. They didn't go for profit. They only tried to serve the population. That's why it's called "socialism". FIY, it worked perfectly well, and the only thing that made the economy ruin was the wastes with weapons, defense, and war technology. No Soviet ever starved during the Soviet Union. But of course you don't know this, you talk without knowing what exactly happened. You just guess and think you're right. Let me teach you something: in History, you don't opine, you read.



This thread is going further and further off-topic...

I don't know about you, but if it were me, I would see no reason to continue on the path to pharmacy if I get paid only as much as everyone else. I'm doing it greatly for the money...it is one of the few high-paying professions I can actually tolerate fairly well. Truth be told, I would rather spend the day flying planes...Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.

----------


## Kromoh

> This thread is going further and further off-topic...
> 
> I don't know about you, but if it were me, I would see no reason to continue on the path to pharmacy if I get paid only as much as everyone else. I'm doing it greatly for the money...it is one of the few high-paying professions I can actually tolerate fairly well. Truth be told, I would rather spend the day flying planes...Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.



Exactly. You'd do something you like instead of something that pays. Talents get used. Which equals development.

It'd totally be programming some real good games right now, if medicine didn't pay better.

----------


## Maria92

> Exactly. You'd do something you like instead of something that pays. Talents get used. Which equals development.
> 
> It'd totally be programming some real good games right now, if medicine didn't pay better.



Ah, but America is in much more need for pharmacists, rather than stunt pilots. I am very talented and skilled in math, science, chemistry, and all other fields pertaining to pharmacy. It's just that flying is more fun...so really, I'd be hurting society, rather than contributing to it.  ::|:  Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.

----------


## Universal Mind

Kromoh, stop derailing this thread.  You and I argued for pages about socialism in the socialism thread of the month.  Pick up that conversation if you want to, but this thread is for making fun of marijuana laws.  You are screwing up the fun.

----------


## Kromoh

I could ask for a split if you want. I just really want to see your response to my last post.

----------


## Universal Mind

> I could ask for a split if you want. I just really want to see your response to my last post.



Then leave it in the socialism thread!

----------


## Kromoh

PM it to me then. I want _your_ response, not everyone else's flame.

Don't you find it weird that you share your atheism with leftists? Perhaps you're just so heck afraid of believing in things, you don't believe socialism would work.

----------


## Maria92

> PM it to me then. I want _your_ response, not everyone else's flame.
> 
> Don't you find it weird that you share your atheism with leftists? Perhaps you're just so heck afraid of believing in things, you don't believe socialism would work.



This thread just became very interesting...

*pulls up a chair* Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.

----------


## Universal Mind

> PM it to me then. I want _your_ response, not everyone else's flame.
> 
> Don't you find it weird that you share your atheism with leftists? Perhaps you're just so heck afraid of believing in things, you don't believe socialism would work.



Are you crazily obsessed or something?  I just quoted you and responded in the most recent socialism thread.  GO THERE FOR THAT SHIT!!!!!!!

Now let's get back to making fun of dumb ass marijuana laws and propaganda in here.   ::breakitdown::

----------


## Maria92

Sorry if this has been posted...

Seriously? Lulzy...Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.

----------


## Kromoh

Lol. It reminds me of a "God save us from Communism" sentence on a catholic calendar. Has nothing to do with marijuana, but only shows how silly propaganda was some years ago.

----------


## Universal Mind



----------


## Captain Sleepalot

> Sorry if this has been posted...
> 
> Seriously? Lulzy...Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.



It is posters like these that make me *want* to get high.

----------


## DeathCell

America Home of The Bullshit.

Everyone better vote and get involved with anything Marijuana related... Go to the DPA, NORML, LEAP, ETC.. Get on their mailers, and constantly bombard our fuckass senators and "leaders" with petitions...

FLOOD THOSE MORONS MAILBOXES, STOP ARRESTING PEOPLE FOR POT WHILE ALLOWING ALCOHOL TO BE SERVED ON EVERY STREET CORNER!  REMIND THEM OF THE DANGERS OF ALCOHOL COMPARED TO MARI!

----------


## Xedan

I think the main reason they don't make it legal is because of the fact that they'd have to let people out of jail, and people like that can become real criminals from being in prison.

----------


## Supernova

This movie is actually kinda funny...I mean even the title sounds funny.

They all got crack in their joints or somethin...

----------


## snuzpilot

Gateway drug: My first experience with a drug was alcohol, then I tried more drugs. Does this mean that alcohol led me to other drugs? NO, it means I was willing to try other drugs, same thing for pot or any other first drug experience.
 Economy stimulant: Of course it will stimulate the economy, there will not only be growers but also packaging, distributing, and any other jobs relating to legally sold pot. There will be taxes on the weed itself and also income taxes from the many jobs created by legal weed, not to mention the income being spent that will be a stimulus to the overall economic well being of the country.
Sure the price will drop like a rock, just like beer that you can brew yourself, but how many people actually brew their own? Most people will not grow their own pot, there's more to it than chunkin a seed in the dirt.
*You will not be required to smoke pot, nothing will change except for the better. the same people will be doing the same things.
*

----------


## Universal Mind

> Gateway drug: My first experience with a drug was alcohol, then I tried more drugs. Does this mean that alcohol led me to other drugs? NO, it means I was willing to try other drugs, same thing for pot or any other first drug experience.
> Economy stimulant: Of course it will stimulate the economy, there will not only be growers but also packaging, distributing, and any other jobs relating to legally sold pot. There will be taxes on the weed itself and also income taxes from the many jobs created by legal weed, not to mention the income being spent that will be a stimulus to the overall economic well being of the country.
> Sure the price will drop like a rock, just like beer that you can brew yourself, but how many people actually brew their own? Most people will not grow their own pot, there's more to it than chunkin a seed in the dirt.
> *You will not be required to smoke pot, nothing will change except for the better. the same people will be doing the same things.*



 :Clap:   ::goodjob2::  :bravo:  ::cheers::  :bravo:  ::madtongue::   :Clap:   ::-P:  :bravo:  :Nod yes:   :Clap:   ::madtongue::  :bravo:  ::bigteeth::   :Clap:

----------


## Xedan

> Gateway drug: My first experience with a drug was alcohol, then I tried more drugs. Does this mean that alcohol led me to other drugs? NO, it means I was willing to try other drugs, same thing for pot or any other first drug experience.
>  Economy stimulant: Of course it will stimulate the economy, there will not only be growers but also packaging, distributing, and any other jobs relating to legally sold pot. There will be taxes on the weed itself and also income taxes from the many jobs created by legal weed, not to mention the income being spent that will be a stimulus to the overall economic well being of the country.
> Sure the price will drop like a rock, just like beer that you can brew yourself, but how many people actually brew their own? Most people will not grow their own pot, there's more to it than chunkin a seed in the dirt.
> *You will not be required to smoke pot, nothing will change except for the better. the same people will be doing the same things.
> *



FUCK YES!




> :bravo:  :bravo:    :bravo:    :bravo:



Seconded!

----------


## dajo

> I think the main reason they don't make it legal is because of the fact that they'd have to let people out of jail, and people like that can become real criminals from being in prison.



What kind of screwed up logic is this? 

You basically have a shitload of people in prison locked up for practically nothing, 
but now you can't let them free anymore, because they might have picked up some 
criminal tendencies there? United States of Crazy? 

Anyway, I think there are better reasons to maintain its illegality, than out of fear 
of a few thousand raging, revenge-seeking ex-potheads.

----------


## Xedan

> What kind of screwed up logic is this? 
> 
> You basically have a shitload of people in prison locked up for practically nothing, 
> but now you can't let them free anymore, because they might have picked up some 
> criminal tendencies there? United States of Crazy? 
> 
> Anyway, I think there are better reasons to maintain its illegality, than out of fear 
> of a few thousand raging, revenge-seeking ex-potheads.



No one ever accused the US penal system of being a good one. It's more a system of isolation now than one of reforming criminals.

And why SHOULD it be illegal, hmm? I'd _love_ to hear your logic over that.

----------


## Motumz

> What kind of screwed up logic is this? 
> 
> You basically have a shitload of people in prison locked up for practically nothing, 
> but now you can't let them free anymore, because they might have picked up some 
> criminal tendencies there? United States of Crazy? 
> 
> Anyway, I think there are better reasons to maintain its illegality, than out of fear 
> of a few thousand raging, revenge-seeking ex-potheads.



I laughed my ass off. No one is in jail for 20 years cause of pot you dumbass. The most is probably 1 year. But if they really were thousands of raging ex-potheads they wouldn't do anything when they get out of jail... just smoke a joint.

I think you were anally raped by pot and there for have to argue against it.

----------


## dajo

what?  ::lol:: 

1. I think it is a screwed up logic to put people in jail over pot
2. It is even more screwed up, to wanting to keep them there, 
because they might have picked up criminal tendencies. 
3. Many people are in jail over weed, which I think is an outrage. 
4. I don't believe the reason to keep it illegal is to keep them locked 
up. I think it has a lot more to do with economics. 
5. It would be majorly screwed up if it was. 
6. The raging potheads was meant to be funny. 
7. I smoke it regularly and was never raped, thanks tho. 
8. Reread my post and keep in mind that I strongly support legalization.

----------


## Motumz

> what? 
> 
> 1. I think it is a screwed up logic to put people in jail over pot
> 2. It is even more screwed up, to wanting to keep them there, 
> because they might have picked up criminal tendencies. 
> 3. Many people are in jail over weed, which I think is an outrage. 
> 4. I don't believe the reason to keep it illegal is to keep them locked 
> up. I think it has a lot more to do with economics. 
> 5. It would be majorly screwed up if it was. 
> ...



Ohhh thank god.. I thought you were arguing against it. I was like uhhhh..

My mistake!  ::banana::

----------


## dajo

> More INSANE propaganda: 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, why the Hell are they cave men?



ahh haha. I see there were some real brainiacs at work, 
seeing they came up with something as genius as this: 



it's pure science.

----------


## Xedan

> I laughed my ass off. No one is in jail for 20 years cause of pot you dumbass. The most is probably 1 year. But if they really were thousands of raging ex-potheads they wouldn't do anything when they get out of jail... just smoke a joint.
> 
> I think you were anally raped by pot and there for have to argue against it.



Actually, as fucked up as it may be, I think the max is about 5 years for possession, far more for dealing, I think.

----------


## Motumz

> Actually, as fucked up as it may be, I think the max is about 5 years for possession, far more for dealing, I think.



Whoa whoa whoa, you can go to jail for up to 5 years for just POSSESSION? I mean dealing is one thing, but just using it for your own purposes can get you in that much trouble? Maybe if it was like a pound of pot? Because I've owned 5 ounces at a time. I'm kind of keeping it low right now though. Just sticking with like 2g's _(nugs)_ of Dro.

That's pretty damn dumb tho.. I better watch out hah...  ::?:

----------


## Xedan

> Whoa whoa whoa, you can go to jail for up to 5 years for just POSSESSION? I mean dealing is one thing, but just using it for your own purposes can get you in that much trouble? Maybe if it was like a pound of pot? Because I've owned 5 ounces at a time. I'm kind of keeping it low right now though. Just sticking with like 2g's _(nugs)_ of Dro.
> 
> That's pretty damn dumb tho.. I better watch out hah...



Well I said "Max". It probably does depend on how much it is.

----------


## StonedApe

It depends on the region. Here it's just a fine for possesion of pot. If you have more than 100 grams it's 6-18 months and the time gets longer as the amount increases.

Actually, possession of paraphernalia will get you time(30 days in the hole, $750 fine and a suspended licensee), but weed won't. Wow, fucking retarded.

----------


## Xedan

> It depends on the region. Here it's just a fine for possesion of pot. If you have more than 100 grams it's 6-18 months and the time gets longer as the amount increases.
> 
> Actually, possession of paraphernalia will get you time(30 days in the hole, $750 fine and a suspended licensee), but weed won't. Wow, fucking retarded.



Wait, what do you mean weed won't get you jail time?

----------


## Motumz

> It depends on the region. Here it's just a fine for possesion of pot. If you have more than 100 grams it's 6-18 months and the time gets longer as the amount increases.
> 
> Actually, possession of paraphernalia will get you time(30 days in the hole, $750 fine and a suspended licensee), but weed won't. Wow, fucking retarded.



Wait I will go to jail for getting caught with my pipe? I thought I'd just get a ticket..  ::shock::

----------


## changed

I don't do drugs I've never done drugs.  But that is my choice as an individual.  So i chose the marujuana should be legal because if someone wants to marujuana they should be allowed to do so.  The only reason drugs are illeagal is because they can't be taxed because people grow it themselves.  Our government is so corrupt that they cause all of these drug wars and shit just because they can't tax it.

----------


## StonedApe

Well if your in ohio you _might_ get fucked. I have 2 friends who have been caught for paraphenalia, one spent the night in jail and got his car towed, then had his liscense taken away for maybe 6 months to a year plus a hefty fine. The other guy got his liscense taken away and a fine, plus they took about 8 pipes, bublers and bongs. I think in the end he lost over $1000. So they can lock you up, but if you get a decent lawer you should be able to get off with just losing money.

----------


## dajo

Aside from dealing and having bigger amounts...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the sentence drastically increase, 
if a person gets caught the second, third, fourth .. time? Which would 
make it all the more possible that people are getting rather long sentences, 
just for possession.

----------


## Xedan

> Aside from dealing and having bigger amounts...
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the sentence drastically increase, 
> if a person gets caught the second, third, fourth .. time? Which would 
> make it all the more possible that people are getting rather long sentences, 
> just for possession.



you mean the n-th time doing the drug or the n-th time getting caught?

----------


## dajo

Getting cought. Getting an entry in your file.

----------


## Xedan

> Getting cought. Getting an entry in your file.



Well getting caught before makes the sentence worse for any crime

----------


## dajo

my point. That's why there are people sitting longer sentences for possession only.

----------


## Xedan

Quick question: people sentenced for possession get maximum security prisons, right? or is it minimum?

----------


## StonedApe

Regular prison, so maximum I guess. It's not the nice prison where you don't get raped. I could be very wrong, but I thought maximum security was just really crazy fuckers, like serial killers.

I think the getting caught each time thing is regional too. From what I can tell from looking at Ohio laws, if you have less than 100g all they can do is fine you up to $100.

----------


## Xedan

Well I always figured it was just minimum and maximum.

----------


## Motumz

Naw there is homes which is basically a prison without any of the heavy guardes or anything and a pretty nice setting. Basically a reward for good behavior.

Then there is county jails which is minimum, and then maximum.

I think haha.

----------


## Xedan

No, the cooshy one's for white collar criminals are minimum. County jail is either maximum of neither.

----------


## Kuhnada29

Cannabis should be mandatory in todays society.

----------


## Luanne

> Cannabis should be mandatory in todays society.



Hell yeah. 

Start around 3:45 (or better yet see the whole video)

----------


## Motumz

> Hell yeah. 
> 
> Start around 3:45 (or better yet see the whole video)



Hahahaha that video was awesome!  ::D:

----------


## tommo

Lol I love that video, seen it so many times.  Funny every time.
"Shit, sorry.... was takin' life seriously" haha

----------


## Maria92

Bahahahah! Haven't laughed that hard in a while.  ::chuckle::

----------


## SKA

> I don't do drugs I've never done drugs. But that is my choice as an individual. So i chose the marujuana should be legal because if someone wants to marujuana they should be allowed to do so. The only reason drugs are illeagal is because they can't be taxed because people grow it themselves. Our government is so corrupt that they cause all of these drug wars and shit just because they can't tax it.



 
Finally some intelligence on this forum.

I'm also glad to find a person that, despite not using nor desiring the use of Cannabis personally, still considers the fact that for others it might be very desirable and medicinal.

It makes me happy to see there are still people that AREN'T pathologically self-centered and consider the needs of others rather then just their own.

----------


## Xedan

Well I tried some in joint form yesterday, not much just a few hits, and I didn't see what was so bad about it. Unless you're going for being stoned out of your mind, that is. I just felt relaxed and my eyes were as dilated as fucking possible  :tongue2:

----------


## Motumz

> Well I tried some in joint form yesterday, not much just a few hits, and I didn't see what was so bad about it. Unless you're going for being stoned out of your mind, that is. I just felt relaxed and my eyes were as dilated as fucking possible



Good job man. That is honestly the most relaxing thing you can do.

And don't get stoned. Get high. Stoned = you want to pass out. High (for me) = a big body high. mental high. trippy. your thinking is much clearer, and you have epic thoughts that sober, you would never have. I once discovered the meaning of the universe, high. but I can't explain it in words  ::roll::  you will feel the feeling soon.

Just smoke in moderation. I only smoke 1 - 2 a week.


Ohh and, joints don't really do it for me. And, it's probably the worst way to smoke pot, for your lungs. Try a bong, pipe, or vaporizer  :smiley:

----------


## SKA

> Good job man. That is honestly the most relaxing thing you can do.
> 
> And don't get stoned. Get high. Stoned = you want to pass out. High (for me) = a big body high. mental high. trippy. your thinking is much clearer, and you have epic thoughts that sober, you would never have. I once discovered the meaning of the universe, high. but I can't explain it in words  you will feel the feeling soon.
> 
> Just smoke in moderation. I only smoke 1 - 2 a week.



Very true. It is why I prefer to smoke Hash. Greater high, lesser stonedness.
High means to be creatively and philosophically inspired. To think in a way unhindered by the obstacles that together are the Ego.

Being stoned is more a physical lethargic state and more common to Cannabis than to hash. Allthough good Cannabis will make you mostly high and only a little stoned. I guess each their own.

----------


## Motumz

> Very true. It is why I prefer to smoke Hash. Greater high, lesser stonedness.
> High means to be creatively and philosophically inspired. To think in a way unhindered by the obstacles that together are the Ego.
> 
> Being stoned is more a physical lethargic state and more common to Cannabis than to hash. Allthough good Cannabis will make you mostly high and only a little stoned. I guess each their own.



Exactly. I haven't been lucky enough to come across any Hash though. Maybe when I move out, I'll just make some.

But that is exactly what people get mixed up with on weed. The biased drug people say "This is why you are lazy when you smoke pot" Wrong. The person is just smoking the wrong stuff, and gets a not so intelligent high. But you can still smoke the right pot (not hash) and get the stoned high. It's just random. I've been smoking the same dro for months and my high always differs.

----------


## Kuhnada29

> Very true. It is why I prefer to smoke Hash. Greater high, lesser stonedness.
> High means to be creatively and philosophically inspired. To think in a way unhindered by the obstacles that together are the Ego.
> 
> Being stoned is more a physical lethargic state and more common to Cannabis than to hash. Allthough good Cannabis will make you mostly high and only a little stoned. I guess each their own.



Woah, I never knew that you can smoke hash and get the high from weed without the lethargy. 

Next time I get some weed I'll try that! thanks for this. I hate that lazyness feeling from weed. 

Do you recommend the alcohol way of making hash? Or how do you make your hash?

----------


## Xedan

Well I did some again today, and it's the last time for a while. wasn't nearly as painful as before (I took WAY too big of breaths before) but still, I'm not really getting high, just relaxed. that's all ya get for two puffs. Also, we only have the weed and paper, no bongs, vaporizers, etc. So we can only do joints.

----------


## dajo

I think I had to smoke 4-5 times before I actually felt anything, then 
over the course of the next 4-5 times the intensity of the high was 
increasing. And that is kind of the case with most people I know, who 
started smoking weed - usually nuthing much in the beginning.

----------


## tommo

> I laughed my ass off. No one is in jail for 20 years cause of pot you dumbass. The most is probably 1 year.



I just want to call bullshit on this.  There is currently a guy in jail still who got 75 years for 2 joints.  Can't find a link right now, but it was when the whole reefer madness thing was happening.  It might have been in the documentary "American Drug War: The Last White Hope".

Also people can still get 25 to life for being caught 3 times in some places in America.  It's just that it doesn't happen that often because people aren't so stupid nowadays to think that you'll kill or rape someone after smoking weed.

----------


## Luanne

> I think I had to smoke 4-5 times before I actually felt anything, then 
> over the course of the next 4-5 times the intensity of the high was 
> increasing. And that is kind of the case with most people I know, who 
> started smoking weed - usually nuthing much in the beginning.



I'm an exception here. My first experience with marijuana was intense, but I was a teenager, so... it was simply funny and amusing. Ah, that was such a waste of time, haha. Now it is a bliss. I love to write while being high, it is an indescribable state of consciousness.

----------


## Kuhnada29

tommo, have YOU ever been caught with weed? because I've NEVER heard of anyone getting even a year in jail for weed. That is bullshit. 

You probaly won't even get jail time, the first time you may get a fine or something. Even after that you won't get any serious time. Being caught with weed is not serious. In fact, if it's under an ounce, it's a civil offense and I think there are fines and shit. 

Now with heroin or cocaine you probaly get a year in jail from a third strike possession. Second time might be like 3 months or so. And THAT's if it is bagged up and they hit you with intent to distribute. So I KNOW weed isn't going to get you anything serious...maybe some rehab or something. 

Don't buy into the bullshit propaganda, it's all scare tactics. The system is designed to keep you in the streets doing the same shit.

----------


## Motumz

> Well I did some again today, and it's the last time for a while. wasn't nearly as painful as before (I took WAY too big of breaths before) but still, I'm not really getting high, just relaxed. that's all ya get for two puffs. Also, we only have the weed and paper, no bongs, vaporizers, etc. So we can only do joints.



Dude, don't stop. Joints suck. Either make a blunt, or don't smoke. Actually, just MAKE a pipe. Out of a can is great. If you need help I can teach you. It actually works VERY well. Almost like mini-bong  ::banana:: 






> I'm an exception here. My first experience with marijuana was intense, but I was a teenager, so... it was simply funny and amusing. Ah, that was such a waste of time, haha. Now it is a bliss. I love to write while being high, it is an indescribable state of consciousness.



Some of my best essays for school have been written high. +10 for cannabis.

----------


## DeathCell

> I'm an exception here. My first experience with marijuana was intense, but I was a teenager, so... it was simply funny and amusing. Ah, that was such a waste of time, haha. Now it is a bliss. I love to write while being high, it is an indescribable state of consciousness.



I think the answer to that myth is people smoke schwag their first time.. I got high as fuck..

----------


## Xedan

> Dude, don't stop. Joints suck. Either make a blunt, or don't smoke. Actually, just MAKE a pipe. Out of a can is great. If you need help I can teach you. It actually works VERY well. Almost like mini-bong 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of my best essays for school have been written high. +10 for cannabis.



sure, pm me! and is a blunt like a joint at all, like those big ones? Or am I totally screwing up the terminology? 

Edit: never mind, figured it out. Thanks google!

----------


## Motumz

> sure, pm me! and is a blunt like a joint at all, like those big ones? Or am I totally screwing up the terminology?



Joints are small. Usually a gram. And you only get a tiny bit of THC in your system at a time. Lame! Blunts are huge. 4x as long, probably 10x fatter. You get SUPER high.

And I will make a can-pipe step by step and take pictures, and send it to you, later tonight. I will probably smoke out of it once I make it haha _(even though I have a bong, pipe [2], and vaporizer)
_ So I gotta wait for my parents to go to bed  ::roll:: 


*EDIT: NEVERMIND!!*

Here is a tutorial, with pictures and text. *HERE!*

Don't worry about *Step 4*! You are a newbie to smoking, and your friends will have to properly teach you that  ::D: 

Also, Bend the sides of the can where the pot would go. You won't want the pot falling out when you super high. And trust me, if you've only gotten buzzes so far, this will get you... really fuckin' high.

----------


## Xedan

damn, I just figured out (after looking around the internet) that what we're using is hardly even a joint. Just one piece of newspaper, I think, rolled up.

----------


## Motumz

> damn, I just figured out (after looking around the internet) that what we're using is hardly even a joint. Just one piece of newspaper, I think, rolled up.



Oh shit dude, that can't be healthy...  ::shock:: 

Oh yea, and only poke tiny holes in the can. Make about 30 tiny holes in a circle. Then you won't get any ash in your mouth!  ::lol::

----------


## Xedan

> Oh shit dude, that can't be healthy... 
> 
> Oh yea, and only poke tiny holes in the can. Make about 30 tiny holes in a circle. Then you won't get any ash in your mouth!



what paper do you suggest?

----------


## Motumz

> what paper do you suggest?



Rolling paper fool. It's FOR pot  ::D:  But the can is much much more effective.

If you are 18 than you can go into a tobacco shop and buy some. Or head shop. If a head shop, then just buy a pipe. I bet you can get a nice one for like 20$.


And did you look at my edited post above? Not sure if you saw it or not, but that shows you how to make a can-pipe.

----------


## Xedan

Oh, no. I'll look at it in a sec. And I'm 15. No pipe or anything like that  :Sad:  unless I make one out of a corn cob.

----------


## DeathCell

> what paper do you suggest?



Rolling papers.... They sell that at stores to 18+, in US.

Zig Zag, theirs many other companies... 

Many older smokers enjoy joints, their certaintly is nothing wrong with them, in my experience they burn faster, but some people swear you get higher smoking joints over blunts.. I'm a blunt man myself, prefer the long slow burn.

Please don't use everyday paper, that is not suitable for smoking.. Better off with a crack can.... Though not really, if your inclined and good at making things with your hands I'm sure you can fasten yourself a homemade bowl out of a pipe or something.

----------


## Motumz

> Rolling papers.... They sell that at stores to 18+, in US.
> 
> Zig Zag, theirs many other companies... 
> 
> Many older smokers enjoy joints, their certaintly is nothing wrong with them, in my experience they burn faster, but some people swear you get higher smoking joints over blunts.. I'm a blunt man myself, prefer the long slow burn.
> 
> Please don't use everyday paper, that is not suitable for smoking.. Better off with a crack can.... Though not really, if your inclined and good at making things with your hands I'm sure you can fasten yourself a homemade bowl out of a pipe or something.



I agree with DeathCell. A loooong slow burn helps your high a lot. Like if you spaced your hits out between like 5 minutes with a can, in 15 minutes you'll be really high. Hours later, still high.

Or you can rip the can till its gone. That always gets the high kickin my ass haha  ::D:   ::banana:: 


And yea, if y'all have a friend who has a lot of weed, and a blunt wrap. Then you should atleast try a blunt once. You'll love it.

Also, what are you smoking? Dro? Pop? Reggie? Swag?

----------


## Supernova

Well, I've only ever used joints, pipes, and bowls (soon to add to that list a
mini-bong  ::D: ), and I must say, if you can get your hands on a bowl do it.  Convenient, but less waste, and you don't have to worry about your clothes smelling.

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> Very true. It is why I prefer to smoke Hash. Greater high, lesser stonedness.
> ...
> Being stoned is more a physical lethargic state and more common to Cannabis than to hash.



Huh. I've heard just the opposite. 

The different psychoactive effects of cannabis are due to a different mix of cannabinoids within the product. The usual major factors are: strain, harvesting, and storage methods. 

Sativas generally give a more mental, cerebral, "up" high. Indicas have a heavy, body, "down" stone. Cannabis connoisseurs can discern differences _within the same strain_, not just between subspecies. 

Harvesting time also has an effect. Cannabinoids degrade as the plant ages, and the level of degradation is usually measured by what color the trichomes are on the plant when harvested. The early transparent stage gives an almost undesirably disruptive mental effect. When they turn opaque, it is usually harvested because the plant has the greatest amount of cannabinoids on a per mass basis and has a less disturbing mental effect. As the trichs gradually turn amber to brown, a stonier, body high results. As cannabis ages in storage, its mental effect becomes cloudier and foggier.

Hashish was traditionally made from Indica varieties. The plants are smaller, denser, and have more surface trichs that are easier to process. Any cannabis can be used for hash, though, so hash's effects can vary just like the whole herb. However, hash's lower surface area means that it oxidizes less quickly than whole herb, which may result in a clearer high.

Conclusion: I (and anybody buying hash) doesn't really know what to expect from a hash high unless they've had experience with the dealer pr were directly involved in the process. This was just a brain dump.  ::D:   ::lol::  


The modern market in more northern latitudes is generally more dominated by Indica cannabis. The plants have a shorter growing season, are physically shorter, and easier to grow indoors. Not only that, but stereotypes come into play. America has been bombarded with the "useless, lazy, couchbound stoner." People want and expect the stuff to do that. Naive users expect a marijuana experience to be similar to being drunk, i.e. have a depressive effect. Indicas suit this purpose more effectively than equatorial sativas, which are tall, difficult to hide, get hit by fall frosts before finished, and don't lend themselves to indoor cultivation. America especially is not accustomed to the philosophical sagelike pothead, which sativas are associated with.


Also, can-pipes suck. Aluminum beer and soft drink cans are lined with plastic to prevent the corrosive contents from eating through the container. That shit burns off, tastes horrible, and the fumes are carcinogenic. Not that my preferred choice, wood, is much better in those terms, but humanity has greater experience with breathing in wood smoke than with plastic. Glass is the way to go, but pieces break easily.

----------


## Xedan

> I agree with DeathCell. A loooong slow burn helps your high a lot. Like if you spaced your hits out between like 5 minutes with a can, in 15 minutes you'll be really high. Hours later, still high.
> 
> Or you can rip the can till its gone. That always gets the high kickin my ass haha  
> 
> 
> And yea, if y'all have a friend who has a lot of weed, and a blunt wrap. Then you should atleast try a blunt once. You'll love it.
> 
> Also, what are you smoking? Dro? Pop? Reggie? Swag?



no idea. My friend gets it from a dealer (his cousin) in oklahoma, if region might help you guess.

----------


## tommo

> Huh. I've heard just the opposite.



I was thinking the same thing lol
But SKA's knows a fair bit so I assumed he just gets Sativa hash or something, not thinking that most other people would get Indica.
Also I've heard most places in Holland have mostly Sativa's which would mean the hash would be made from Sativa's also.

I also agree with the can pipe thing.  Not a good way to go imo.  Joints are perfectly fine, if you can't get stoned off a J you're probably smoking shit weed or you smoke too much weed lol  If there is such a thing as too much.

Oklahoma has MMJ doesn't it?  Xedan just get a prescription from a doctor dude!  Fuck the street weed lol

----------


## Motumz

> I was thinking the same thing lol
> But SKA's knows a fair bit so I assumed he just gets Sativa hash or something, not thinking that most other people would get Indica.
> Also I've heard most places in Holland have mostly Sativa's which would mean the hash would be made from Sativa's also.
> 
> I also agree with the can pipe thing.  Not a good way to go imo.  Joints are perfectly fine, if you can't get stoned off a J you're probably smoking shit weed or you smoke too much weed lol  If there is such a thing as too much.
> 
> Oklahoma has MMJ doesn't it?  Xedan just get a prescription from a doctor dude!  Fuck the street weed lol



Naw man, some people just can't get high off of joints. I had a pretty decent sized Dro joint, and I smoked the entire thing in like 4 minutes and didn't feel really anything. I was smiley with a little body high, but still. Then I took a hit out of my pipe with the same stuff, and I was hiiiiiiiiigggghhhhhhh. Not sure why, but it doesn't really bother me.

----------


## AirRick101

yeah, I think it should be...but I don't know what I'll think when everybody around me is going to have bloodshot eyes...to be honest, I'm kinda scared of weed being legal, lol

----------


## Motumz

> yeah, I think it should be...but I don't know what I'll think when everybody around me is going to have bloodshot eyes...to be honest, I'm kinda scared of weed being legal, lol



LMAO!  ::banana:: 


But really, I don't want it completely legalized. That would only support gangs and their nasty weed business. Rather, I'd want it legalized for medical purposes... AND partly recreational purposes. For example, citizens are allowed possession of cannabis, but only under an ounce. Probably less.

----------


## Supernova

Not really, it's illegality is what makes it profitable for gangs, take away it's illegal status and 1. prices drop 2. a lot more average stoners will be growing it.

As for 3 posts up: depending on how long it was, it coulda been that you just weren't feeling it yet, I get that delay a lot.  I'll be feeling it a little, then next thing I know I'm flying.

----------


## Universal Mind

> But really, I don't want it completely legalized. That would only support gangs and their nasty weed business.



If it were completely legal, Marlboro and Camel would be selling it. It would be like $5 for a pack of perfectly rolled joints.

----------


## Motumz

> If it were completely legal, Marlboro and Camel would be selling it. It would be like $5 for a pack of perfectly rolled joints.



Not 5$ though. That would be some very shitty weed.

Unless of course the price of weed goes down if it is legalized. But looking at dispensery prices, weed is still pretty expensive for good weed.. and not dirt.

----------


## tommo

> yeah, I think it should be...but I don't know what I'll think when everybody around me is going to have bloodshot eyes...to be honest, I'm kinda scared of weed being legal, lol



Not gonna happen though.  For example would you smoke weed if it were legal?  I'm guessing not.  So the same applies for other people too.  The only people who will smoke it are the ones who smoke it already, and the ones whoa re going to smoke it anyway.  Of course there will be a few who start buying coz it's legal, but not everybody.  Also if you look at Holland, they have a WAYYY lower amount of Cannabis smokers than almost any other country.  Like 50% less than America for example.





> Not 5$ though. That would be some very shitty weed.
> 
> Unless of course the price of weed goes down if it is legalized. But looking at dispensery prices, weed is still pretty expensive for good weed.. and not dirt.



But that's because most of the medical dispensaries still grow or buy it illegally, some of them are also gang members trying to make legal profit, and there's also still risk of getting busted even though it's legal and Obama said the DEA won't be busting MMJ dispensaries.  As soon as they start selling it fully legally and not just for medicine, prices will drop and also people can grow themselves.

----------


## SKA

Off course marijuana prices would go down alot if it were legalised. The illegalisation is making Marijuana scarce. If it were legal ALOT more people would grow it and it would be abundant; The price would drop.

Then if good quality Marijuana was publicly sold in abundance for much lower prices, gangs and dealers wouldn't be able to make a significant buck on it anymore.

If it was legalised, criminals could no longer sell it to people. The people would just grow it themselves; Which is why the biggest criminal gangs of all time, the Governments, will do all they can to keep it illegal.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Not 5$ though. That would be some very shitty weed.
> 
> Unless of course the price of weed goes down if it is legalized. But looking at dispensery prices, weed is still pretty expensive for good weed.. and not dirt.



The illegality of it makes it many times more expensive than it would be if it were legal. Does it cost more to hire somebody to paint your living room or the same amount of area just below the outside part of the top of a skyscraper?

----------


## ChrissyMaria

look at this guys rant on youtube about legalization LOL

----------


## Motumz

> Off course marijuana prices would go down alot if it were legalised. The illegalisation is making Marijuana scarce. If it were legal ALOT more people would grow it and it would be abundant; The price would drop.
> 
> Then if good quality Marijuana was publicly sold in abundance for much lower prices, gangs and dealers wouldn't be able to make a significant buck on it anymore.
> 
> If it was legalised, criminals could no longer sell it to people. The people would just grow it themselves; Which is why the biggest criminal gangs of all time, the Governments, will do all they can to keep it illegal.



Very true.







> The illegality of it makes it many times more expensive than it would be if it were legal. Does it cost more to hire somebody to paint your living room or the same amount of area just below the outside part of the top of a skyscraper?



Good analogy  :smiley:  Hope weed will be legalized while I'm still young. Now would be nice haha, but things take time so oh well.

----------


## Xedan

> look at this guys rant on youtube about legalization LOL



I take it the LOL was at his "talking" because everything he said sounds exactly right

----------


## Odd_Nonposter

> I take it the LOL was at his "talking" because everything he said sounds exactly right



Sure is. I'm tempted to make the same kinda thing, myself.

----------


## Xedan

I'd love to see it!

In the mean time, no more pot for me until I can scrape up one more dollar (my friends making me buy it now, which unfortunately makes sense). Stupid child labor laws! Every local place that is willing to hire at 15 is already fully staffed. On the plus side, now I don't have to share it with everyone else (which really can't be healthy).

----------


## tommo

I think you mean stupid overpopulation lol

----------


## Xedan

well not really. even with a lower population, we only have two places that hire at 15, and one only hires girls.

----------


## ChrissyMaria

Yea I meant lol cause he was screaming so consistently lol that guy was DEAD ON balls accurate.

----------


## cygnus

> look at this guys rant on youtube about legalization LOL




holy shit i love this guy!

DO YOU FREAKING GET IT? it's WICKED unjust!

..oh yeah, also - i was at border's the other day looking through a book that mentioned the drug testing industry. yes, there's an entire industry thriving on the legal status of a plant by testing people for ingesting its psychoactive ingredients, as well as a big push by conservatives to test high school students.

----------


## Universal Mind

Here's another good Bill Hicks bit on drugs...  



and another one.

----------


## cygnus

"what's gonna happen to the arms industry when we realize we're all one? it's gonna fuck up the economy! the economy that's fake anyways!"  :smiley:

----------


## Supernova

Dude Bill Hicks is my #1 favorite comedian, hands down.  I only wish I had gotten to see him live at least once.

----------


## ChrissyMaria

why do you think they call it 'high' school...who wasn't smoking weed in 9th grade or atleast 12th?

----------


## Universal Mind

32 people have said in the poll that marijuana should not be legalized.  Where are they?  At least Noogah and like one or two other people had the guts to get in here and argue for a while. I really want to have a major, all out debate with somebody on marijuana legalization, but the opposers generally just take the poll and leave. They must not have much belief in their position.  The only major internet debate on drug legalization I have ever had was with Howie on salvia divinorum legalization.  I want to have more of those.  It's just really hard to get drug debates going.  The other side doesn't seem to have much to say.

----------


## cygnus

i watched that video again...

WHO CARES if some guy does cocaine goes to a club and dances sings then gets up and washes his freakin caa!

----------


## tommo

On that screaming guy video lol....
HE's so right, American's, actually, ALL people are so fucking concerned with their taxes.  They want them as low as possible.  I think the best way to get it legalised is to show just HOW MUCH of their hard earned money is going to fighting a useless drug war.  Coz I don't think they realise yet.

If only NORML could raise some more money for more advertisements, their last one was good.  Now due to the economic crisis we need to push the money side of it.  That'll definitely change opinions, my word.





> 32 people have said in the poll that marijuana should not be legalized.  Where are they?  At least Noogah and like one or two other people had the guts to get in here and argue for a while. I really want to have a major, all out debate with somebody on marijuana legalization, but the opposers generally just take the poll and leave. They must not have much belief in their position.  The only major internet debate on drug legalization I have ever had was with Howie on salvia divinorum legalization.  I want to have more of those.  It's just really hard to get drug debates going.  The other side doesn't seem to have much to say.



I KNOW!!!! This pisses me off.  That's also another major problem.  You're either talking to a brick wall or they just don't wanna put forward any arguments because they.... wait for it.... HAVE NONE!  That's the problem, they just wanna stick to their BELIEFS without any proof whatsoever.  The thing is though, is that if you keep pushing your FACTS on them, they almost always see the truth.  You have to do this IRL, doesn't work online coz they can just go away and ignore you.

----------


## Motumz

> why do you think they call it 'high' school...who wasn't smoking weed in 9th grade or atleast 12th?



You sir, are in my signature.






> 32 people have said in the poll that marijuana should not be legalized.  Where are they?  At least Noogah and like one or two other people had the guts to get in here and argue for a while. I really want to have a major, all out debate with somebody on marijuana legalization, but the opposers generally just take the poll and leave. They must not have much belief in their position.  The only major internet debate on drug legalization I have ever had was with Howie on salvia divinorum legalization.  I want to have more of those.  It's just really hard to get drug debates going.  The other side doesn't seem to have much to say.



Because they are brain washed little girls. And they know that. They just hate the fact they are still up their mom's ass about using "drugs" as harmless are marijuana. So they can't post anything other than... "drugs are bad". But if we do start another thread specifically for drug argument, we need to make it clear that we are only going to argue about mainly pot, and other harmless drugs and psychedelics. Not anything hardcore like meth, heroin, ect.

----------


## Indecent Exposure

There are in my opinion three main reasons that you don't get these kind of debates.
Firstly, those who want the legalization of cannabis in general feel very strongly about it, we are aggrieved at what we perceive to be a human rights issue and simply an insane law. We're the ones who want change, those who don't support legalisation simply couldn't give two shits. They are, in general, of the mind that we don't smoke weed therefore why should we give a fuck.  
Secondly, those who are "anti - weed" don't really have a well thought out perspective on this issue. They merely accept that they have been told for years that weed is a drug, and drugs are bad. They accept that they don't have the knowledge to enter into the debate, this however doesn't affect their unwavering belief that weed is bad, since why would anybody need knowledge on a subject to have an opinion on it in this day and age.
And finally, there is no opposition argument. Over the last 50 years the perceived opposition to the legalization of weed has been thoroughly dealt with on paper. There is no leg left to stand on, the problem is they don't need one, because the persecution of cannabis smokers is one of the many accepted global injustices.

----------


## Descensus

> why do you think they call it 'high' school...who wasn't smoking weed in 9th grade or atleast 12th?



Hi.

----------


## ChrissyMaria

lol

----------


## Xedan

> Yea I meant lol cause he was screaming so consistently lol that guy was DEAD ON balls accurate.



I'm sorry, and I know it's been a while since I was caught up in this thread, but I must ask: Is that a reference to My Cousin Vinny?

----------


## Xedan

> There are in my opinion three main reasons that you don't get these kind of debates.
> Firstly, those who want the legalization of cannabis in general feel very strongly about it, we are aggrieved at what we perceive to be a human rights issue and simply an insane law. We're the ones who want change, those who don't support legalisation simply couldn't give two shits. They are, in general, of the mind that we don't smoke weed therefore why should we give a fuck.  
> Secondly, those who are "anti - weed" don't really have a well thought out perspective on this issue. They merely accept that they have been told for years that weed is a drug, and drugs are bad. They accept that they don't have the knowledge to enter into the debate, this however doesn't affect their unwavering belief that weed is bad, since why would anybody need knowledge on a subject to have an opinion on it in this day and age.
> And finally, there is no opposition argument. Over the last 50 years the perceived opposition to the legalization of weed has been thoroughly dealt with on paper. There is no leg left to stand on, the problem is they don't need one, because the persecution of cannabis smokers is one of the many accepted global injustices.



I can't thank this enough times

----------


## Xedan

You know what I REALLY don't understand, though? The people who can drink alcohol, smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, then tell kids about how bad weed is, and still somehow live with themselves.

----------


## tommo

I think I understand that.  One of the reasons is people try to act righteous.  "Even though I'm killing myself I'll save you from ding the same coz I'm so righteous"  They do the same thing even regarding alcohol or tobacco, they'll be drinking and say "You shouldn't drink it's bad for you, also tobacco causes cancer, don't start smoking *puff puff*".  Also, weed isn't in a nice little package with a gold insignia.

I remember I bought a skullcap plant and my mum said is it dangerous?  And I said not really but if you have to much it can cause liver damage.  She basically went nuts at me saying why the fuck would I want to take something that can cause liver damage, while she had also been drinking that same day!    To top it off, she bought me a packet of fucking skullcap a few months later from a health food store! lol coz she thought my plants were getting kinda low on leaves.

Truth is, nice packaging/marketing = safer and better in a majority of western society's eyes.

----------


## Supernova

> You know what I REALLY don't understand, though? The people who can drink alcohol, smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, then tell kids about how bad weed is, and still somehow live with themselves.







> I can't thank this enough times




Unrelated: it's an industry term.

----------


## SKA

Discovering the illogical and immoral nature of the laws and regulations surrounding the use of drugs lead me to notice and explore more and more "cracks" in the image of integrity and moral intent I used to attribute to authority in the past.

If we are ever to change our crooked, immoral druglaws, or our entire, corrupted economical/political system, we are first to break free from  the deathgrip our societies are being kept in.

----------


## Xedan

> Unrelated: it's an industry term.



now that HAS to be a reference!

----------


## Supernova

That movie's awesome.

----------


## Xedan

I bet Vinny could get weed legalized.

----------


## ChrissyMaria

Oh yea my post was a reference to my cousin vinny, I've watched that atleast 75 times.

----------


## Supernova

> I bet Vinny could get weed legalized.



I think you're on to something...

Get me Joe Pesci!

----------


## Supernova

Just found a pretty cool article, it's an essay about cannabis written by Carl Sagan in 1969

http://marijuana-uses.com/essays/002.html

"...the illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world."

----------


## ChrissyMaria

Carl Sagan is amazing, amazing how he makes so much sense.

----------


## Xedan

> Just found a pretty cool article, it's an essay about cannabis written by Carl Sagan in 1969
> 
> http://marijuana-uses.com/essays/002.html
> 
> "...the illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world."



Wow, I just read the letter from an Indian chief who's name escapes me called "How Can You Buy Or Sell The Earth" (it's been hanging on my Grampa's wall for years, but I'm sure it can be found on the internet) and for some reason that little excerpt reminded me of it.

By the way, I Sig'd the vinny conversation

----------


## Universal Mind

> Wow, I just read the letter from an Indian chief who's name escapes me called "How Can You Buy Or Sell The Earth" (it's been hanging on my Grampa's wall for years, but I'm sure it can be found on the internet) and for some reason that little excerpt reminded me of it.





http://www.barefootsworld.net/seattle.html

----------


## OldManRiver

I suggest reading "Marijuana is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink?".

----------


## tommo

> 



Proof.  A few hundred people just got killed in the biggest earthquake ever.
Nevertheless, we will go on fighting this useless drug war and stuffing our faces with junk food.  A majority of people will never wake up to that fact that we own nothing.

----------


## Xedan

> http://www.barefootsworld.net/seattle.html



Well, that wasn't his real name. But yeah, it always said that in parentheses next to his Indian name. By the way, that article seems very paraphrased  :tongue2:  For instance, he never said "president" he said "great chief" among other noticeable differences.

----------


## dajo

Massachusetts medical marijuana and legalization, breaking news update

----------


## Supernova

> On Tuesday, marijuana legalization was the subject of discussion before the MA *Joint Judiciary Committee* at the State House.



I lol'ed

----------


## dajo

Haha, yeah  ::D:

----------


## tommo

> How long are you holding the hit in?



Myth.
Cannabinoids are absorbed almost instantly in to the lungs.  You don't have to hold it in for long at all.  Like a normal breath is fine.

Yes some people have a naturally high tolerance.
Some people have a naturally low tolerance.
I only have to smoke one hit and I'm completely blazed.  Some people I know smoked 2 joints every time since they started smoking.

EDIT: From the article "_As legislators in Massachusetts, we have the opportunity to pass a medical 
marijuana bill that will become the model of how effective medical marijuana programs should operate. Unlike the unmonitored medical marijuana program in California which is often maligned in the press, the proposal I support would require the Department of Public Health to approve all doctor recommendations, and to strictly regulate a limited number of treatment centers. These centers would be responsible for maintaining a secure chain of custody from their grow site, to the treatment center, and finally to the patients who are certified by DPH. Please join us at this event for more information about medical marijuana reform."
_
Damn that's bullshit.  Maybe they just want it passed and then slowly loosen the restrictions.  There's absolutely no reason for every application to have to be approved.  The doctor knows better than any government body whether Cannabis will work for their patient.  The only other drug they do this for is Heroin.  In extreme pain cases, they need approval from certain government bodies.  Cannabis is not addictive at all, so why have the same regulations?

----------


## juroara

:Uhm:  I never know when people are high, and half the time people think Im high and I dont do any sort of drug/alcohol or shrooms. But I know a drunk when I see one and they piss me off!! How much more worse can marijuana be?

----------


## Xedan

> I never know when people are high, and half the time people think Im high and I dont do any sort of drug/alcohol or shrooms. But I know a drunk when I see one and they piss me off!! How much more worse can marijuana be?



It's not worse at all. Unless they're totally fucking stoned, you'd never notice. But if you can see their eyes, look for redness and dilated pupils. Though my pupils seem to dilate in pulses almost, because I can look at about five minute intervals and see them big, then small, then big again.

----------


## w4nd3r3r

I try and be as non-biased and rational about things such as recreational drugs as possible, and so while I could go on for paragraphs about why they should be fully legalized (that doesn't mean to say regulation isn't needed; legalization =/= anarchy) my opinion is this: if humans have one right, it is to do what they want with their lives and their bodies, so long as it does not harm others in any way; that's all I'll say.

As a former casual user, I'd like to think my opinion is respectable, as it means I'm not biased towards marijuana but I do still have an idea of "what it's like".

----------


## Kuhnada29

The government should _force_ us to ingest cannabis. Use it as fuel, fiber, paper, food, medicine...the whole nine. Cannabis needs to be a world culture or something

----------


## Supernova

> fuel, fiber, paper,



hemp





> food, medicine



DEFINATELY cannabis

also why do I only see towelie when I quote you?

----------


## dajo

But he's right and it was obviously appropriate to mention. 
I like that he cared more for the health of a fellow dreamer than to stay on topic. 

To add something on topic, I'd like to link to some economic arguments: 

Should Governments Legalize and Tax Marijuana? 

Time to Legalize Marijuana? - 500+ Economists Endorse Marijuana Legalization

----------


## dajo

Even though most of the people voted 'yes' in the poll, I think it would be 
good to keep the discussion going and to post recent developments on the 
legalization issues. (To stay posted and to make it more obvious, too) 

Other than that, I think it's reasonable also, to have a thread that tackles 
different topics/questions relating to marijuana. On the one hand, it keeps 
this thread on topic, on the other, some deserve a place to be debated -  
the 'don't use bookpages as papers' posing as an example.

Edit: 
The first part was responding to: 





> That's pretty much all this thread is here for anymore.  After what's been said, any further discussion regarding the OP would be a bit

----------


## Supernova

@Dajo

Debate is what I meant to say, not discussion.  We can certainly post and discuss info and news relating to the legal status of marijuana.

----------


## tommo

Now to drag this back to legality of weed so this post doesn't get deleted....
The only reason Cannabis is illegal is because people don't adhere to the scientific method.  Most people probably don't even know what it is.  Science has helped scientists to prove that the war on drugs is a massive violation of human rights, a complete and utter waste of money and more harmful to society and individuals than having regulated drugs.

So, why do people still some in to this thread, arguing for legalisation, or arguing some other point, as pertains to the last few pages, and still tout bullshit myths and ideas they have?  Myths and ideas with no basis in reality.

I think America is going down the dangerous path of getting rid of the problem without getting rid of the cause.
Legalising weed without increasing the scientific literacy of the general population.  There is no way in hell the around 45% (the number that support legalisation) of America suddenly became scientifically literate in the past 20 years.  This means people are mainly changing their views due to scientific proof about Cannabis, presented to them in a nice little pamphlet or advertisement, website etc.  Basically, changing their view because it seems to be the popular thing to do.  Going with the herd.

This is dangerous because it ignores all the other drugs.  Even though all the arguments we have applied to weed, to get this far, apply to all the other drugs *100%*  Which is further proof of my theory, that people aren't becoming more scientifically literate, they just heard some good things about weed, mainly that it has medical benefits, and they just infer that it can't be that bad.

It is proof of my theory because support for legalisation of weed has gone up dramatically, while for other drugs it's barely gone up at all, although it has a bit.  And you might think that we can just get other drugs legalised afterward, but that might take another ~50 years.

I had an idea of setting up a news channel which only has proven stories on it.  That would help.  But the best thing is to always question everything you are told, and encourage other people to do this too.  We can't continue having any drugs illegal for another 50 years.

----------


## tommo

> Originally Posted by tommo
> 
> Hypocrisy at it's finest.  If you really cared that much about staying on topic you wouldn't have posted that second paragraph.
> 
> 
> 
> But he's right and it was obviously appropriate to mention. 
> I like that he cared more for the health of a fellow dreamer than to stay on topic.



I also forgot to say in my last post that this was basically my point.
He just criticised everyone for going off topic, then commented about the exact same off-topic topic as everyone else.  We thought it necessary to warn people of dangers too.

And Xedan, no that little bit of paint won't hurt you.  As long as you're not inhaling it on a regular basis.  I'd say it's pretty safe anyway because it would have to be up to food standards, so it wouldn't contain anything harmful.

Yep you're right about the poverty thing.  It's proven that poverty is correlated with belief in supernatural beings, and hence less scientific reasoning.  And obviously poverty also means little to no education which means even less scientific thinking.

And the crime aspect is a good point too.  People see drug addicts committing crimes on the news etc or IRL and just want to go with their gut reaction "THROW THEM IN JAIL!!!!".  Or I've even seen some people say to "kill them all".  Can you believe that people actually believe that that's what should happen?  Someone disagrees with their view and they want them dead?  Bloody hell....  But they don't see the bigger picture that they _are_ throwing them in jail, and in some places even killing them.  It doesn't make a difference.  We could have shoot-on-sight laws pertaining to people who take illegal drugs and people would still take them.

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## Xedan

And the even bigger problem is that, of that 45% for legalization, probably only 10% even realize that jail and crime are secondary problems. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Nothing is truer than that quote. We've had a war on drugs before. Prohibition. That didn't work. In fact, prohibition started some of the first gangs for what are now the biggest illegal drugs. All of this points to drug prohibition being bad. Plus the fact that we can see for ourselves that it isn't working. And the biggest injustice of all is that when it comes to drug prohibition, people aren't in jail for doing drugs. They're in jail for breaking the law.

And how is it that, with all the people in jail for possession, and all the people for marijuana legalization, marijuana cases have never gotten to the supreme court and won?

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## ChrissyMaria

45% for legalization? where did you get that information it must be really OLD!

Currently in the us the majority of americans support legalization, the minority oppose it.

right now the minority who want it illegal are either dumb, ignorant, or making money off of the illegal drug market.

The main reason pot is illegal is because the government makes more money off an illegal drug than a legal one. if they legalized it and sold the bud their selves most people wouldn't buy it and just grow their own, which is why they wouldn't legalize it.

What I see in the near future of america is just decriminalization, so you won't goto jail for a dime bag or an eight of an ounce or a small amount like that. but full legalization is not going to happen anytime in this century.

Also to tommo for that earlier post about aluminum cans, I think you are dead wrong and here is why:

When you smoke through a can after a few days, the 'holes' you poked for hitting turn black brittle and melts away eventually after much use, this means some of the aluminum and the ink and other chemicals melted away and inhaled into your lungs.

Also, im quite sure once aluminum fills your lungs, it doesn't leave your lungs, its a cumulative poison and if you keep smoking through a can than I have nothing more to say than good luck not getting brain damage and aluminum toxicity.

I would much prefer to use glass which gives off no fumes and doesn't melt from a lighters fire.

seeing most people don't smoke properly and they just put the fire directly into the weed on their can which means they are heating the metal and the ink and chemical resin coat to protect the image on the can from washing away.

I personally don't feel safe smoking through a chemical coated toxic aluminum can, I don't even drink from cans because I believe aluminum should be banned for holding beverages unless the inside is properly coated to stop aluminum from leaching into the drink.

IMO aluminum is just bad, I avoid it like the black plague I won't even touch tinfoil or use it when I cook.

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## nina

Guys please respect our drug policy. Use of illegal drugs should generally only be discussed as they pertain to dreaming/dream related subjects. Giving advice about how to take better hits, etc. is in violation of forum policy. 

Posts which are in violation of policy may be deleted without notice in order to keep this thread open. Or it may just be closed. 

Also those in violation will be given warnings/infractions if they fail to comply. 

Fair warning.  :tongue2:

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## dajo

> 45% for legalization? where did you get that information it must be really OLD!



I just did a quick google search, because I wasn't sure myself - and the 45% 
seem to be generally accurate. There are of course differences in location and 
also a lot more people support legalization of medical marijuana, but still: 

http://www.pollingreport.com/drugs.htm

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123728/u....-new-high.aspx





> PRINCETON, NJ -- Gallup's October Crime poll finds 44% of Americans in favor of making marijuana legal and 54% opposed. U.S. public support for legalizing marijuana was fixed in the 25% range from the late 1970s to the mid-1990s, but acceptance jumped to 31% in 2000 and has continued to grow throughout this decade.



Other sources: 





> A majority of Americans, in a poll released Wednesday, say it "makes sense to tax and regulate" marijuana. The Zogby poll, commissioned by the conservative-leaning O'Leary Report, surveyed 3,937 voters and found 52 percent in favor of legalization. Only 37 percent opposed.
> 
> A previous ABC News/Washington Post poll found 46 percent in support. In California, a Field Poll found 56 percent backing legalization.
> 
> Responding to the poll at a press conference Tuesday, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger called for an open debate on legalization.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_198196.html

==========

CBS has also started a poll and came to a different conclusions: 





> A majority of Americans oppose legalizing marijuana and lowering the drinking age even if it would mean economic benefits for cash-strapped state and local governments, a new CBS News survey finds.



They say only 31% are for legalization. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...95-503544.html

==========

stopthedrugwar.com are more optimistic, but also reckognize that even 
though the polls show a record 'high' (pun intended), it's still a minority. 

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-...lresults.shtml

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## Xedan

> When you smoke through a can after a few days...



There's your problem. You're only supposed to use it once.




> Use of illegal drugs should generally only be discussed as they pertain to dreaming/dream related subjects.



Isn't the whole point of extended discussion the fact that it isn't a dream section?

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## nina

> Isn't the whole point of extended discussion the fact that it isn't a dream section?



Discussing the legalization of marijuana is a valid topic for extended discussion (were it not, this thread would not exist).

Giving each other tips about how to get higher is not, and is in violation of forum policy.

See the difference?  :tongue2: 





> Drug Policy Violation
> Posting pictures of drugs or tools used to take/make drugs and *discussing how to take/make drugs is prohibited*.

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## DeathCell

Aqua but we can talk about drinking boos as much as we want can't we? Let the American Government and the American Drug war control our discussion?

Seems sad to me.

Talking about illegal drugs, is not illegal so why is that rule their? Obviously you don't want discussion about how to make methamphetamine, but harmless talk about Marijuana? It's sad that a drug that is far safer than alcohol, and has been smoked for 6000+ years can all of a sudden be a taboo subject because of the American war on drugs.

Just makes me puke a little bit in my mouth, you know.

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## nina

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=92089

If you have a problem with the drug policy, you are welcome to address the issue with staff by creating a Talk To Staff thread. 

Back on topic.

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## Indecent Exposure

What a shame.

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## Crazydreamergurl

Well, I'm not for it or against it. I want nothing to do with it. I did vote yes because, even though it's illegal 70% of the people I meet do it so what's the point of it being illegal if people are going to continue to do it?

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## Xedan

> Aqua but we can talk about drinking boos as much as we want can't we? Let the American Government and the American Drug war control our discussion?
> 
> Seems sad to me.
> 
> Talking about illegal drugs, is not illegal so why is that rule their? Obviously you don't want discussion about how to make methamphetamine, but harmless talk about Marijuana? It's sad that a drug that is far safer than alcohol, and has been smoked for 6000+ years can all of a sudden be a taboo subject because of the American war on drugs.
> 
> Just makes me puke a little bit in my mouth, you know.



Not to mention that marijuana IS legal in many countries.

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## Motumz

What if I said...

Hypothetically, in Xedan's *dream* he should only use a can once, and throw it away.


Is that okay? Or am I stretching the boundaries, and you will just delete my posts again?







> Now to drag this back to legality of weed so this post doesn't get deleted....
> The only reason Cannabis is illegal is because people don't adhere to the scientific method.  Most people probably don't even know what it is.  Science has helped scientists to prove that the war on drugs is a massive violation of human rights, a complete and utter waste of money and more harmful to society and individuals than having regulated drugs.
> 
> So, why do people still some in to this thread, arguing for legalisation, or arguing some other point, as pertains to the last few pages, and still tout bullshit myths and ideas they have?  Myths and ideas with no basis in reality.
> 
> I think America is going down the dangerous path of getting rid of the problem without getting rid of the cause.
> Legalising weed without increasing the scientific literacy of the general population.  There is no way in hell the around 45% (the number that support legalisation) of America suddenly became scientifically literate in the past 20 years.  This means people are mainly changing their views due to scientific proof about Cannabis, presented to them in a nice little pamphlet or advertisement, website etc.  Basically, changing their view because it seems to be the popular thing to do.  Going with the herd.
> 
> This is dangerous because it ignores all the other drugs.  Even though all the arguments we have applied to weed, to get this far, apply to all the other drugs *100%*  Which is further proof of my theory, that people aren't becoming more scientifically literate, they just heard some good things about weed, mainly that it has medical benefits, and they just infer that it can't be that bad.
> ...



I'd think it would be a domino effect. Once people see the truth in cannabis, they will hopefully open their minds a bit. Maybe after the legalization of weed the government would just legalize the other good stuff? Shrooms.. ect..

I dunno, just what I was thinking. But I guess shrooms don't have any medical value, physically. Other than helping the mind, and expanding it, ect.

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## nina

> Is that okay? Or am I stretching the boundaries, and you will just delete my posts again?



You should be a little more grateful. I probably should have just locked the thread, but personally, I would prefer not to end the discussion. Savvy?  :tongue2:

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## Xedan

> I'd think it would be a domino effect. Once people see the truth in cannabis, they will hopefully open their minds a bit. Maybe after the legalization of weed the government would just legalize the other good stuff? Shrooms.. ect..
> 
> I dunno, just what I was thinking. But I guess shrooms don't have any medical value, physically. Other than helping the mind, and expanding it, ect.



well in Jamaica shrooms are legal but weed still isn't.

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## ChrissyMaria

That video is a great reason to legalize pot medicinally atleast, as a first step towards total legalisation, gosh the dea are so retarded busting medical shops.

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## Xedan

> That video is a great reason to legalize pot medicinally atleast, as a first step towards total legalisation, gosh the dea are so retarded busting medical shops.



That makes me want to kick someone's ass.

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## dajo

I have a question. Do you think that 44% for legalization is high or low?

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## ChrissyMaria

Very low, I haven't been polled, have you? how accurate is that number?

They poll maybe 1000 people and then say it represents 250 million people, bologna.

It should be legal today, not tomorrow not next election not next time, now!

I sincerely hate everyone responsible for its illegality 80 years ago and today.

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## dajo

Check out my previous post. If you have different information, lets evaluate. 

Other than that, I think 44% is high, in regard to how it is still stigmatized. 
Obviously it is a topic that is worth being debated very publicly, when 
so many people are for legalization, independent of medical marijuana and 
despite of all the misinformation that's being still publicly believed.

More answers please. I think it is both interesting and on topic.  :smiley: 

edit: 

By the way: My previous post was in response to yours

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## StonedApe

> I have a question. Do you think that 44% for legalization is high or low?



I think it's just a little bit high. It's probably closer to 30%, and that's just medicinally. Most people my age want it legalized, but that only makes up a small percentage.

Popular opinion rarely reflects reality. Obviously drugs should be legal. The idea that making something illegal somehow protects you from it is absolutely absurd.
*Having accurate information about drugs keeps people safe.*  (Nina)

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## tommo

> IMO aluminum is just bad, I avoid it like the black plague I won't even touch tinfoil or use it when I cook.



Yeah, I deduced that from your extremely alarmist post about brain toxicity.




> I personally don't feel safe smoking through a chemical coated toxic aluminum can, I don't even drink from cans because I believe aluminum should be banned for holding beverages unless the inside is properly coated to stop aluminum from leaching into the drink.



Aluminium is so safe it's not funny.  Especially if it's just ingested and not inhaled.  Aluminium is EVERYWHERE and we all have aluminium inside us, all the time.  And yes, the body _can_ get rid of it.  It doesn't cause brain damage, I'm assuming you're thinking about that Alzheimer's 'link'?  It was proven wrong.  Another case of causation and correlation being mixed up.





> 45% for legalization? where did you get that information it must be really OLD!
> 
> Currently in the us the majority of americans support legalization, the minority oppose it.



Ok, seriously, just stop for second.  Before you post one more thing, google it to see if you're right.  IT couldn't be much more than 50% for legalisation.  As the above posts show.





> They poll maybe 1000 people and then say it represents 250 million people, bologna.



LOL 1000 is more than enough to get an accurate representation.  For a study that is.  Polls are different though.  1000 is still good, but it just fails coz it's a poll.  It's not getting a wide demographic, because the people who take the poll find the poll, whereas in studies, the researchers find the people, and they work it out so they will have a good representation of the whole country, because they ask a lot of different demographics.

http://blog.norml.org/2009/04/30/abc...r-been-higher/

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## dajo

> I think it's just a little bit high. It's probably closer to 30%, and that's just medicinally. Most people my age want it legalized, but that only makes up a small percentage.



That is not exactly what I meant, but are you saying that 
those sources are invalid? They don't seem to be..? 

The polls for medicinal marijuana are a lot higher. 

30% is CBS.  :smiley:

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## Motumz

> You should be a little more grateful. I probably should have just locked the thread, but personally, I would prefer not to end the discussion. Savvy?



Fair enough!  ::lol:: 






> Yeah, I deduced that from your extremely alarmist post about brain toxicity.
> 
> *Aluminium is so safe it's not funny.  Especially if it's just ingested and not inhaled.  Aluminium is EVERYWHERE and we all have aluminium inside us, all the time.  And yes, the body can get rid of it.  It doesn't cause brain damage, I'm assuming you're thinking about that Alzheimer's 'link'?  It was proven wrong.  Another case of causation and correlation being mixed up.*
> 
> 
> Ok, seriously, just stop for second.  Before you post one more thing, google it to see if you're right.  IT couldn't be much more than 50% for legalisation.  As the above posts show.
> 
> 
> LOL 1000 is more than enough to get an accurate representation.  For a study that is.  Polls are different though.  1000 is still good, but it just fails coz it's a poll.  It's not getting a wide demographic, because the people who take the poll find the poll, whereas in studies, the researchers find the people, and they work it out so they will have a good representation of the whole country, because they ask a lot of different demographics.
> ...



Finally! Thanks you.

But seriously you guys. Listen to tommo, he has his facts straight. I'm not saying everyone else is wrong, but it's just dumb when people keep posting wrong information.

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## DeathCell

The reason smoking out of aluminum foil is safe is because you can't inhale the aluminum unless the solid turns into a vapor.. Basically no lighter can possibly reach that temperature, you'll know if you do when it starts to melt... You'd be pushing far higher temps than any butane lighter.

 933.47 K
(660.32 °C, 1220.58 °F)

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## Xedan

> The reason smoking out of aluminum foil is safe is because you can't inhale the aluminum unless the solid turns into a vapor.. Basically no lighter can possibly reach that temperature, you'll know if you do when it starts to melt... You'd be pushing far higher temps than any butane lighter.
> 
>  933.47 K
> (660.32 °C, 1220.58 °F)



yeah, but melting point still isn't a boiling point

anyways, I'm probably done with weed for a while, or at least until I find a working lighter (which could be a looong time).

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## dajo

lol, do you have to be 18 in the US to buy a lighter? 

 :Oh noes:

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## Xedan

No, but you have to be 16 to drive anywhere to get a lighter.

EDIT: actually, I think you do at a lot of places, that's just store policy though.

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## DeathCell

> yeah, but melting point still isn't a boiling point
> 
> anyways, I'm probably done with weed for a while, or at least until I find a working lighter (which could be a looong time).



It's not giving off any vapor until it reaches those extreme temperatures.

Odd I find lighters at stores, they sell them... And I hand them money, than they give me lighters...

If you aren't old enough, you really can't get a lighter or a book of matches?
Must live differently than when I was younger.

Just read your last post, do you live in the middle of nowhere or something? No stores nearby?

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## Xedan

well like I said, the real problem is getting it, not buying it. I can't just ask my dad if I can buy a lighter. There's no normal reason I'd need one.

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## DeathCell

No older friends, that's too bad.

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## Xedan

> No older friends, that's too bad.



none that I trust enough to even tell them I smoke. But now that I think of it, I bet I could ride my bike to a 7-11 near by. I haven't done it in a while though and I forgot how much their lighters cost.

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## Motumz

> none that I trust enough to even tell them I smoke. But now that I think of it, I bet I could ride my bike to a 7-11 near by. I haven't done it in a while though and I forgot how much their lighters cost.



No you don't need anyone of any age to buy you a lighter. I've bough lighters, zippos, fuel for my lighters and even hookah's.

Just go to *ANY* gas station.

And if your parents ask why you have a lighter, just say it's for fireworks.


But you don't need to have a reason to stop smoking weed. It's your choice, and either way is fine of course. No one will treat you differently if you stopped smoking  :smiley:

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## Odd_Nonposter

Forgive me in advance, Nina, for straying off topic and disobeying the drug policy.

As far as I'm concerned, the hierarchy for cannabis paraphernalia  materials is as follows:

Stainless steel. Expensive, but easy to clean and unbreakable. It also looks rather sharp.
Glass. Easy to clean, can look pretty cool, but very easy to break.
Ceramic. Cleanable, doesn't look as nice, and breaks at the drop of a hat.

Wood. There's a break in period for every wooden piece: you have to char and tar up the inside before it stops tasting like the inside of a chimney. However, very old carved pieces look like something you'd keep as an heirloom rather than smoke in.
If you're going to build your own wooden pipe, I'd suggest two things. One, that you know what kind of wood you're using, and two, that you have a decent understanding of how to use power tools. Drill presses save you lots of time and wasted wood.
Most people can't get super exotic pipewoods like briar, so I'd suggest the following species:
Black Cherry. Turns and works very easily, and unlike some other woods, the char absorbs the smell a lot better.
Maple
White oak. Red oak has humongous pores that interrupt with the smoke flow.
Ash will splinter readily when working with small pieces, but will still work.
Stay away from most softwoods.

Pretty much all beverage cans have an epoxy liner in them. Soda, juice, and beer are incredibly acidic and will eat through an aluminum can.


They card for zippos in Ohio. But not Bics. I can't understand why.  :Uhm:

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## Jeff777

Temporarily closing this thread while drug policy is being amended.  We'll re-open it as soon as we're finished amending the policy, as well as this thread.   :Shades wink:

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