# Off-Topic Discussion > The Lounge > Tech Talk >  >  Photoshop-type programs for poor souls...

## Mes Tarrant

Okay, I feel extremely frustrated at not having a program like that to be able to make my own sig or help out with the lucid task of the month badges... is there something out there that is free that is about as good as Photoshop?

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## Sornaensis

> Okay, I feel extremely frustrated at not having a program like that to be able to make my own sig or help out with the lucid task of the month badges... is there something out there that is free that is about as good as Photoshop?



www.GIMP.org

or www.serifsoft.com <- Photoplus 6 is free

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## Mes Tarrant

Can someone do as much with those as with Photoshop?

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## Sornaensis

> Can someone do as much with those as with Photoshop?



Yea, GIMP, IMO, is better than photoshop.

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## Mes Tarrant

Okay cool, thank you Seisie!!  ::D:

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## Ynot

The Gimp lacks some of the advanced reprographics features found in photoshop
colour spaces for large printers (poster printing)
support for commercial graphics tablets
few other bits 'n bobs
but short of being a professional artist, you wouldn't use any of the missing features anyway

and the gimp has one thing photoshop doesn't have
Script-fu

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## ninja9578

I used Gimp for a long time before I got Photoshop.  I haven't found anything that Photoshop could do that Gimp can't.  The only reason I use Photoshop now is because I got it free from my university and I don't like having to use the X11 window engine, but in Windows (I assume that's what you are using,) that doesn't matter.

I also think that the Photoshop environment is a little cleaner than Gimp.  Does anybody else feel that Gimp is kind of cluttered?

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## Mes Tarrant

Alright my mission is to learn as much about Gimp in the next few hours as possible. Just downloaded it - needless to say looks a bit confusing for a first timer.

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## Ynot

http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/

the GIMPLite Quickies will get you used to the most common tools

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## Marvo

It's a shame you can't get Photoshop, I'd say it's much better than GIMP. GIMP does have a few really cool functions, that Photoshop don't, though Photoshop is much easier.

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## Sornaensis

> It's a shame you can't get Photoshop, I'd say it's much better than GIMP. GIMP does have a few really cool functions, that Photoshop don't, though Photoshop is much easier.



I admit photoshop is cleaner, and easier, but hey, you can't really beat free for me  ::D: .

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## Ynot

the gimp doesn't use nested windows (or MDI as it's known)
it's a strict *nix no-no (see disadvantages in the link above)
unlike most of the apps on Windows that use it (or in some cases - MS Office - flip flop between the two depending on the version)
so people from a Windows background may not like the separate windows

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## Sornaensis

> the gimp doesn't use nested windows (or MDI as it's known)
> it's a strict *nix no-no (see disadvantages in the link above)
> unlike most of the apps on Windows that use it (or in some cases - MS Office - flip flop between the two depending on the version)
> so people from a Windows background may not like the separate windows



Yea, that's what i hate about GIMP. No nested windows. I wish they could cross serif studio with GIMP! That would be awesome. And it would make GIMP a lot easier to use.

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## Ynot

MS has been trying to fade out nested windows since Win95, as it's crap on multi-monitors
but stubborn app authors won't re-do their UI's

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## Sornaensis

> MS has been trying to fade out nested windows since Win95, as it's crap on multi-monitors
> but stubborn app authors won't re-do their UI's



Psh. Nested windows are soo much better! I think i'll start a poll, lol  :tongue2: .

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## Man of Steel

I use the GIMP for everything. I love it. I used to use Photoshop, way back in the day, but lost it when I had to reformat my desktop. The GIMP does all I've ever asked of it, though.


Now if only there was a free program comparable to Premiere...

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## Marvo

> I admit photoshop is cleaner, and easier, but hey, you can't really beat free for me .



Honestly, I don't know a single person, who owns Photoshop CS3 legally.
The program is so easily cracked and hacked, Adobe is not even trying  ::|:

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## Adam

They are on CS3 already!!! I only just got CS2  :Sad:

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## dodobird

Maybe they fixed that by now, but the version of GIMP I used lacked proper preview in many of the filters, which is a big disadvantage compared to Photoshop.

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## Goldney

> They are on CS3 already!!! I only just got CS2



Yes they are Adam, though from what I here CS3 is mainly upgraded around 3d manipluation rather than 2d. I "acquired" CS2 just because I felt I didn't need CS3 and because those extra features would slow down my computer and I don't really need them.

I would like someone to prove me wrong about CS3 and say how it's a huge step-up from CS2 though.

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## Lord Toaster

> Honestly, I don't know a single person, who owns Photoshop CS3 legally.
> The program is so easily cracked and hacked, Adobe is not even trying



Well, I can't imagine who would pay the ridiculous price to own it legally. I just checked up on it - Adobe Photoshop Extended Edition costs $999. That's just silly. I think the normal edition is around $600, but that's still much too much, considering that GIMP is free. And of course, you can get it illegally, although I'm not sure how  ::?: 

edit: I just saw this site, claiming to offer Photoshop Extended for only &#163;31.99... is this for real?

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## Identity X

> edit: I just saw this site, claiming to offer Photoshop Extended for only &#163;31.99... is this for real?



Real, perhaps, legal, definately not.

Photoshop > GIMP. Perhaps GIMP is somewhat feature-comparable for a beginner, but AFAIK it doesn't have CMYK support and, besides, Photoshop just feels _right_ whereas GIMP is a struggle. 

Plus, whenever I think "GNU" I think RMS. And he needs to diet.

CS3 Extended Master Collection (basically, every Adobe product in its best form) is installed on all the PCs in our department at Uni. Quite what the site license would have cost them...

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## ThePhobiaViewed

I just downloaded the GIMP and have no clue what I'm doing but I'm getting around with it. It seems much better than trying to use Picture It! for making avatars, sigs, etc. Nested windows would probably have been better but beggars can't be choosers and Photoshop is way overpriced.

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## Mes Tarrant

So yes. Gimp is a little confusing and I don't like the separated windows but:

a. Only an idiot wouldn't be able to figure out GIMP with a little patience
b. I didn't have to put my computer at risk by downloading photoshop illegally... but of course I'm open to suggestions on that part...  ::D:

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## Marvo

GIMP can certainly do things, but the seperated windows pisses me so much of, and everything is just confusing. Why did they make an entire gigantic window for layers?! So dumb.

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## ninja9578

Photoshop has a separate window for layers too, thats the window that most work is actually done in, for me at least.  You can resize the window  ::-P: 

I made my new avatar in Photoshop with nothing but layer manipulation.

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## Sornaensis

> GIMP can certainly do things, but the seperated windows pisses me so much of, and everything is just confusing. Why did they make an entire gigantic window for layers?! So dumb.



Hey marvo, can you PM about Photoshop?  :smiley:

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## Marvo

Noo, that would be illegal  ::o: 


Add me on MSN [email protected]

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## Xaqaria

> I admit photoshop is cleaner, and easier, but hey, you can't really beat free for me .



Wait, you charge?

edit: oh wait; I read that wrong.

Joking. Sorry for the off topic and off beat humor

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## Sornaensis

> Wait, you charge?
> 
> edit: oh wait; I read that wrong.
> 
> Joking. Sorry for the off topic and off beat humor



 ::nono:: 

This is *TechTalk*. We all mean serial bussiness!!!

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## Ynot

looks like the photoshop UI may become more gimp-like

Blog entry from John Nack, senior product manager at Adobe
looking at overhauling the Photoshop user interface

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/11...hop_as_se.html





> Also, too I look at Piknik and all the other online photo editing spring-ups (a la Photoshop Express) that have elegantly and simply adapted their UIs by NOT being an end-all, be-all. Maybe take a look at GIMP or Picasa and see why "everyday" users like them.

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## Adam

I don't really see too much wrong with Photoshop to be honest though, why would they want to change it/ I have never used these free programs before, are they really that different to use?

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## Grod

> I don't really see too much wrong with Photoshop to be honest though, why would they want to change it/ I have never used these free programs before, are they really that different to use?



Oh yeah. Photoshop is waaaaay better then GIMP. GIMP is different to use then photoshop for just about everything. 

But hey, GIMP is free.

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## Sornaensis

> Oh yeah. Photoshop is waaaaay better then GIMP. GIMP is different to use then photoshop for just about everything. 
> 
> But hey, GIMP is free.



Actually, photoshop and GIMP are quite a lot a like. 





> GIMP is different to use then photoshop for just about everything.



And what the hell does that mean?

std::

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## Grod

> Actually, photoshop and GIMP are quite a lot a like.



Um, no. NO.
That's like saying " Clinton and W. Bush are pretty much alike, I mean, they're both presidents right?"
Gimp is like the retarded cousin of Photoshop.




> And what the hell does that mean?
> 
> std::



Dude, chill out. 




> GIMP is different to use



This means it is not the same when using it...




> then photoshop for



I don't know how to put this simpler. 




> just about everything.



Almost anything you do with it.

Is that simple enough to understand now?

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## Mes Tarrant

Everybody relax. The entire point of this thread is that at the end of the day, I personally cannot afford photoshop and will have to suck it up and waste a few more brain cells understanding GIMP.  ::roll::

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## Sornaensis

> Um, no. NO.
> That's like saying " Clinton and W. Bush are pretty much alike, I mean, they're both presidents right?"
> Gimp is like the retarded cousin of Photoshop.
> 
> 
> Dude, chill out. 
> 
> This means it is not the same when using it...
> 
> ...



It made no sense in the first place. 

GI think you meant: GIMP and photoshop are used differently for the same things.

or

GIMP and photoshop are used differently for different things.

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## Grod

> It made no sense in the first place. 
> 
> GI think you meant: GIMP and photoshop are used differently for the same things.
> 
> or
> 
> GIMP and photoshop are used differently for different things.



Typo, than vs. then. I think you still knew what I meant. Or at least I hope you did...

Logic





> GIMP and photoshop are used differently for different things.



This makes no sense. If they were used for different things, then of course they would be used differently.

Thus... The only option can be...




> GIMP and photoshop are used differently for the same things.



Ding Ding Ding! There you go.  I already explained it though, mate.

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## Sornaensis

> Typo, than vs. then. I think you still knew what I meant. Or at least I hope you did...
> 
> Logic
> 
> 
> 
> This makes no sense. If they were used for different things, then of course they would be used differently.
> 
> Thus... The only option can be...
> ...



You really didn't read those two sentences, did you?  ::D:

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## Grod

> You really didn't read those two sentences, did you?



Could you be a little more vague?  ::roll:: 

Or do you want me to re-explain it... _again_...

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