# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity >  >  How to VILD effectively

## arby

This is a thread about VILDing and WILDing. It’s a pretty long thread but it should be a worthwhile read. I teach a bit of well.. I’ll refer to it as “philosophy” for lack of a better word. If my technique actually works for you or not, the rest should help you WILD with better clarity, vividness etc.

I guess the best way to start out a thread like this is by stating the purpose. To try and teach you how to WILD in a short time frame and pretty much anywhere. But this is directed towards people who have had multiple lucids. People who know what a lucid is and how it feels. Keep that thought in mind. How a lucid *feels*. 

Now, lets dive into the philosophical stuff. Consider this: What makes up your waking life? It’s one thing. (Well.. you COULD say five I guess... ) The five senses. Touch, sight, sound, smell, and taste. This is all you can use to prove that you are alive and this is all you can use to explore the world around you. Some of you may see where I am taking this and have noted that these are everything we (usually!) use to explore the world in our dream as well.

Simple enough?

Now, we can look at what role each plays in our dream. What we _think_ we feel, see, hear, smell and taste are what make us believe we are in the world in our head. Now, the order those senses are listed is very important. This is the order of importance that the senses tend to play in out dreams, how much each contributes to the realism of the dream and how much you will need to concentrate on each to get it to seems real. Heres a breakdown:


*Touch*: The hardest part of building your dreams from scratch is to get all the feelings just right. This is the sense that we take for granted the most. Take a moment and study yourself. How much are you truly feeling right now?

You are probably feeling your ass on the chair, your feet against the floor and the mouse in your hand. If any of you limbs arn't resting on anything, you'd feel the slight bother of your muscles working against gravity.

Now this is just you sitting like a bum in front of your monitor. Theres tons of different feelings you register without even thinking every day. When people try to imagine themselves in a dream, they normally concentrate on _sight_ they hold their hand in front of their face and go "ooo hand" but they're usually not really convinced it’s a hand. Its certainly won't seem like their hand. It might as well be a 2D image somebody drew on their minds eye.

Hold your hand in front of your face. feel the weight of your arm? Thats YOUR arm and you know it. Flex your fingers. Feel the different muscles working in your arm and hand? Now, try to capture the feeling in your head and let your arm relax. Now try to recreate the scenario in your head. If you can do it, you're already on your way to jumping into a dreaming state. If not, I'll have some exercises later on.

*Sight*: Often considered the most important because this is how we collect the most information and the majority of our dream world is represented. I don't think theres much to say about sight that’s not known anyways. Visual representations are commonplace in the mind.

*Sound*: Like touch, this is almost always ignored. Especially when we are being dazzled by what we are seeing. You wouldn't believe how much you miss sound-wise in movies. Often a movies will have "music" playing in the background the whole way though. You never really notice it though because its ends up being the columns under the bridge that is the visuals. Try watching a movie and pay special attention to sound and music. You may be quite surprised. (unless it’s a crappy movie). The same things that applied to touch apply to this.

*Smell and taste:* Now we get to the two lesser senses. Smell and taste. These do not contribute to most dreams. Especially taste. Smell is most often used to set the tone of the atmosphere. Like touch, this is also ignored by the conscious mind attempting to generate a scenario. Did you know that water has a smell? Quite a distinct one in fact. It is simply just lost in the setting along with touch and sound. 

  Taste is comprised of 70&#37; smell. Go figure the importance of that XD

  And now.. the part this has been leading up to.

*The method* 
  Now here’s a rough sketch of the thought process you could (should?) take to VILD. This is very similar to Gothlark’s V-WILD. In fact that’s what it pretty much is… but there was no formal write-up for that technique so I feel the need to make one that is to my satisfaction. Call it what you will. A VILD, V-WILD…. Doesn’t matter. Here it is.

  Alright.. =) first things first. Close your eyes and decide on the dreamscape you want. If possible, you want somewhere that will let you do the next few steps easily. I will describe a sample dream as I go through the process. 

  I chose a nice low patch of grass beside a lake. The water seeps through the soil and makes it swampy where I am supposed to stand. We will build the world around us by using the 5 senses. First is sight because it always seems to be the thing people need to spark off the dream world. I etch the scenery in my mind. First, I do the sky. Be sure to include as much detail as possible. For example, the sky is a brilliant shade of light blue with semi-transparent fluffy clouds floating lazily through it. The sun shines down in helpful rays. It helps to think poetically like this when you are identifying the features of your scenery. It helps draw the connections that make up much of the foundation of the dream. For example, in your head you likely have the connection implanted between a “helpful” sun beating down on you and warmth on your face. Having a “helpful” sun over a simple sun (or no sun at all. It may not even be included in the dream!) will help later when you try to build up the rest of it.

  The rest of the picture gets build up in this manner. There is a range of majestic mountains in the background. They frame the perfectly calm lake in which no ripples can be seen. The muddy ground protrudes ahead of me in a miniature peninsula towards the centre of the lake. 

  Once you have finished that, you have completed step 1. You now have generated a rough shell to spark your dream. (remember that there is almost no way that your conscious mind can match the ability of your “dream mind” when it comes to creating eye candy so don’t even try to get it perfect. If you’re really desperate, coloured blotches is okay at this point =O). The next step is slightly trickier. You must insert yourself into the dream and appease your “setting senses” touch, sound and smell.

  These are the senses that you normally ignore but they make a very vital part of your world. You may have to rediscover these sense completely before you could even dream of using them. (haha.. sorry for the pun..)

  First is touch. Build yourself from the bottom up. You start with feet. Your feet can feel the cool, moist grass and squishy ground. They feel the weight of your body resting on them and sink slightly into the ground. Next is your legs. They need to keep you us so you can feel the muscles working slightly, slightly tense but not too much. Then comes the upper body. Same deal as the legs and feet. Next is another unexpected feeling, Clothes. You feel them pressing against your skin 24/7. Are you naked in your dreams? If not add on the clothes. Are they tight anywhere? Do you feeling it pinching or squeezing? 

  Then, try and feel anything else you may be feeling. The feeling of wind on your face, is it humid, is it hot?

  [edit] the rest of this tut was added on later. Just saying this so the rest of this thread makes sense…

  Then comes sound. Everything has a sound. When I type this, my keyboard makes a sound. When you swallow, it makes a sound. Hell, when you breath, you make a sound. Any kind of action, any kind of motion will produce a sound. When a big breeze comes by, I will feel it on my face and I will hear the rustling of the trees and the grass.

  Then is smell. This should mainly come from your memory. This sense is both easy yet very difficult to reproduce. You see, you only ever smell one scent. But that scent is a combination of the scents all around you. By far the easiest way to get the right scent is from memory.

  I know what it smells like to be standing by a lake so I remember that scent and include it in the dream. If you don’t really know what you should be smelling, just use the smell of the most prominent feature.

  By now, everything should be a mess. You will most likely have lost clarity in the sight and have forgotten most of the touch. Try to recapture as much as you can. You have just felt it/ seen it/ heard it/ smelt it. You should be able to pull all the parts that are still fresh in your memory and meld them into one big picture. As you pull it together, try not to concentrate on a single sense or you’ll likely lose track of the others again. Do it slowly. There is no reason to rush. In fact, from this point on, attempting to do things quickly is liable to rip the whole thing apart.

  When you have pulled it all together to your satisfaction, try to hold it together. Now we must stabilize everything in order to move to an actual dreaming state. (I don’t consider this dreaming yet. Although, it tends to be hard to draw the line between a dream and a visualization.) For a short while, just bask in the senses. I squish my feet in the mud and feel is squishing under my toes. I see a deer flitting under the trees at the other side of the lake. I feel a nice breeze wash over my face and hear is rush by my ears.

  After a short while, it should feel much easier to maintain. In fact, you may not even have to think about it at all to keep everything running! Now, DO NOT DO ANYTHING DARASTIC! You may feel exited, but do not rush. Keep yourself and your mind where you are standing. It is often important at this time to remind yourself that you are dreaming. This is all a dream. Otherwise you are likely to descend into a semi-lucid or non-lucid.

  Do basic actions. I turn on the spot and begin walking away from the lake. Again, I stress this because it is important, take your time. I do not want to try to fly right now. I don’t want to attempt the task of the month. All I want to do is move further into my dreamscape. It is often good to encounter a DC now. Talk to them. See what is happening in this dream. Without direction, you are liable to never enter a true dreaming state.

  I turn around and see a few tents set up. I walk towards them and my friend comes out of one of them. 

  “Hey dude, what’s up?” 
  “I was about to go do some fishing, wanna come?” 
  “Sure.”

  As you progress through the dream, it will stabilize further and your dream mind will take control. If you have had a lucid before, you should be able to recognize when it has turned fully. But don’t check every other second. A watched pot never boils and a watched dream never turns. Although, try not to lose track of the fact that is a dream. Otherwise you lose full lucidity. Although, if you quite enjoy semi-lucidity, it may not be such a bad thing =P

  At the end of our fishing trip, we returned to camp. But it had just been ransacked by a bunch of thugs. I knew I defiantly didn’t make that happen. Therefore my dream mind had taken over and this “reality” was no longer simply what my imagination could churn out. I was lucid and quite pissed at a gang of thugs =)

*Tips and tidbits

*    When does this work best?

  The best time to try this is actually RIGHT when you wake up. You can actually jump right back into a dream you just had by closing your eyes and re-imagining it. It goes 5x faster when you have just come out of a dream. Plus, if you wish, you can actually go back to a previous part of the dream that you remember and start fresh from there. This is especially effective if you just came out of a non-lucid. You can make something that you wished didn’t happen, not happen then continue on from there.

  I can’t think of a scenario. What do I do?

  You do something I like to refer to as “squirreling”. It’s originally a debating term but it fits here pretty nicely. Pretty much you take a part of one concept and use it to obtain an utterly different one. Simply pick an object out of your surroundings or some random surrounding. For example, I see a bow. I’ll use that. Then you generate another surrounding for that object. Boxes are common in factories so I’ll think of that. Voila, I have a dreamscape I can use =O

  I can’t visualize anything. What do I do?

  Work on it. I can’t really teach visualization. If I were to write a 200 page book and you read it cover to cover, you would likely still be unable to conjure images out of thin air. But there are was you can try to build it up.

  By far the best way is to experience something then try to visualize it. For example, when you held your hand in front of your face then closed your eyes and tried to visualize it. If you were unable to do a complex shape like a hand, try something simpler like a square. Repeat as many times as you can. Look at a square, close your eyes and try to keep it implanted on your vision. Once you have been able to get the square successfully multiple times. Try getting it without first looking at it. The same goes with all the senses.

  Please, comment comment comment. Even if its to say “Thanks that worked”, “I don’t think this would work” or “I hate you and I slept with your mom last night.” It helps me learn as well. I will try to answer all questions to the best of my ability in this thread as well.

  Happy dreaming, hope this helped a bunch of people =)

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## Selmuir

Great !! :wink2:

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## Thatperson

1. do we open our eyes when we are done?
2. can this be done at normal sleeptime and if so is it better to do it at other times?

thanks for a great post anyway  :wink2:

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## LucidInCuB!zt

This is what i was looking forward to earlier on. Great job man ::D:

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## musicman

Wow. although I've never tried to VILD before, this makes it seem like the most enjoyable way to induce lucid dreams.  I think it will be easier to visualize if you imagine yourself barefoot with wind and breathable clothes.  I want to think of it like Matrix style: standing in a white room with the environment flooding in around me.  This should be in the Tutorials section

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## Blµb

much to concentrate on, I got quite a good image from reading this post, I guess when I fully concentrate and do that method in bed I might have some success  :smiley: 

Thanks for sharing.  :smiley:

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## Marvo

I've already attempted one kind of VILD before, but this one sure it supperior. The other one just said "Imagine a room, and keep doing that for 30 minutes, until you eventually have a lucid-dream!". I've done VILD before, uintentionally, and that was just awesome. Sorta like a WILD, but still a tad different. I think.

I'll try what the technique is so far tonight, and then report back tomorrow  :smiley:

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## ThePhobiaViewed

I will reask Thatperson's second question. Has anyone had success trying it before sleep or are you supposed to do WBTB. I usually try to WILD in bed when its bedtime just to relax and fall asleep, not really expecting one (which may be why i havn't had a successful one. I have recently started to visualize things while doing this and I will try this and report back.

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## arby

> 1. do we open our eyes when we are done?
> 2. can this be done at normal sleeptime and if so is it better to do it at other times?
> 
> thanks for a great post anyway



1. uh, during the method? No. Treat it as if you were going to sleep because... well.. thats what you pretty much are doing. This is how I often get to sleep =P

2. The great thing -I think- about this technique is that it can be done anywhere. All you have to do is tune out your normal senses then visualize!

Of course, thats only when you're really good at visualization. Once you are good enough, you can skip over the whole process altogeather and just plop everything together. You can do it in seconds.

But to answer your question, you should probably be in bed when starting out. Or a similarly restful place.





> Wow. although I've never tried to VILD before, this makes it seem like the most enjoyable way to induce lucid dreams.  I think it will be easier to visualize if you imagine yourself barefoot with wind and breathable clothes.  I want to think of it like Matrix style: standing in a white room with the environment flooding in around me.  This should be in the Tutorials section




Hehe... enjoyable the first time you do it.... But you can only stand in a white room matrix style so many times before it gets boring. Thats why I often "squirrel" my environment. This simply means taking a small part and then creating a whole new environment from that. I'll have a section about it one I finish =O

I thank you all for your positive comments. I always love them <3

I ask that you guys try this tonight then tell me how it went. Theres a couple things i'm just realizing i probably should have said that i'll be adding such as waiting for the dream to stabilize before you go crazy. Don't do stuff like try to fly right off the bat. Stick to real life stuff until the dream takes over and you no longer have to generate everything yourself.

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## archdreamer

This is shaping up to be on of the most comprehensive VILD guides I have ever seen - keep up the great work. I'm watching this thread with great excitement  ::D: . I think I might start trying to VILD, so if I have results anytime soon, i'll be sure to post here.

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## Marvo

I tried what we have so far, making the scenery visually. Then I started to think weird thoughts. I even cought myself thinking completely different thoughts, then asked myself "What the hell is that I just visualized?". I never got to touching, as I fell asleep. The technique is great for that by the way.

I'll be expecting the next step  :smiley:

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## Thatperson

i tried it last ngiht without sucess, i was a bit uncompfortable but that will probably change tonight,

anyway so your saying, when you get really good you can just LD wherever you are at anytime? By the way, is there meant to be a point where we go from visualising the scene to actually seeing it because I did this once 2 years back with a book but got over-exited and lost it.

Looking forward to reading future posts  ::D:

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## arby

You mean go from a visualization to a world where you don't need to create everything yourself? Yeah, thats what the end result of this tech is supposed to be. But you can usually only go this deep when its time to go to sleep. For example, you'd probably still have to visualize some stuff as you went along if you tried this sitting in your computer chair.

I'll try to finish this up today but I can't make any promises.

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## Thatperson

sounds pretty cool  :smiley: 

anyway what i meant to say was once i was visualising a book and then I actually see it with my eyes and was reading the text rather than jsut with my minds eye

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## TalkingHead

> Sorta like a WILD, but still a tad different. I think.



Yea.. VILD is really similar to WILD.  I think VILD just involves more _conscious_ attention because you are intentionally creating a specific dreamscape.  

WILD is more trying to enter into the visualizations that your mind is creating:  I think this method allows for more vivid imagery because less consciousness is being used?  

 I think if the VILD is becoming really vivid then you can relax and try and enter the dream consciouslly (WILD).  But VILD has the added bonus that if you fail to enter the dream consciously you are much more likely to encounter this dreamscape during sleep.

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## Thatperson

almost got something there, just woke up from nap and when it started i visualised a mosquito (heh its a start) but didnt become lucid or remember my dream  :Sad:

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## maytodecember

When I first entre my dream scenary it is a plain room.  It has 4 walls and a door on the left wall.  The off white, and the door and trim around the floor is brown.  My friend is in the room and he tell me, "I think you're dreaming!  Do a reality check now!"  :smiley:

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## arby

Alright, Pretty much finished now! =) Its almost twice as long as it was before. Its all in the first post so go check there for the update. Thanks to Squall for that! <3





> When I first entre my dream scenary it is a plain room.  It has 4 walls and a door on the left wall.  The off white, and the door and trim around the floor is brown.  My friend is in the room and he tell me, "I think you're dreaming!  Do a reality check now!"







> almost got something there, just woke up from nap and when it started i visualised a mosquito (heh its a start) but didnt become lucid or remember my dream



Sounds promising! =)





> Yea.. VILD is really similar to WILD.  I think VILD just involves more _conscious_ attention because you are intentionally creating a specific dreamscape.



I'm not sure if you understand the terms. WILD is an umbrella term. Its a classification for all the techniques that go from waking to lucid. A VILD is a WILD.

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## DarThDreAmeR

Wow good post. I'm definitely going to try this out tonight. I"ll tell you how it goes tomorrow.

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## musicman

that looks AWESOME! I tried to visualize a scene similar to yours, but I was simply canoing on the lake.  Should I try to not move until the visualization becomes more stable?

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## arby

> that looks AWESOME! I tried to visualize a scene similar to yours, but I was simply canoing on the lake.  Should I try to not move until the visualization becomes more stable?



Its not so much not moving that should be avoided but rather changing things dramatically. A nice even stroke with the paddle might be even more effective then simply standing still because you get to -hopefully- feel the pull of the paddle as you drag it through the water.

Don't fight the visualization. What you see first is where you are likely strongest (probably because of strong memories.) And it will be more stable that way.

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## archdreamer

Excellent. I had been waiting for this to be finished, and I must say, it looks promising. I've been trying to achieve VILD lately, but have not been successful yet. I'll certainly report back if anything interesting happens, and what I did to achieve it. 

Also: I hate you and I slept with your mom last night. But that's irrelevant. :P

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## arby

> Also: I hate you and I slept with your mom last night. But that's irrelevant.



You arse! *slaps*

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## LucidDreamGod

Nice job arby, gothlarks technique is posted in a nice guide but it's not as detailed as yours, I told him to post it but he's really busy alot, and his life is just not giving him much time at all these days it seems, I'm lucky I got it before he got to overwhelmed with his hobbys and other stuff in his life.

If any one would like it I can post the link to the site in a pm but I will not post it in this thread because I'm not alowed to advertise.

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## Pride

Ill be trying this when i goto sleep and when i wake up for a WBTB
this seems relly cool, and a good way to go lucid

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## shaftmonkey

hey good tutorial, i have one question though. 

while you're imagining the sound of yourself breathing, etc. in your dream world, how do you keep from concentrating on yourself breathing in real life? I would confuse the sound of my breathing with the sounds i imagine in the dream area.

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## arby

> hey good tutorial, i have one question though. 
> 
> while you're imagining the sound of yourself breathing, etc. in your dream world, how do you keep from concentrating on yourself breathing in real life? I would confuse the sound of my breathing with the sounds i imagine in the dream area.



thats not really a very good thing to try and use to help build up sound XD. I was just using it to show everything has sound.

And I forgot to mention the big problem with breathing but more importantly, with smelling. DON'T! well at least, not like you normally would. For smelling, you do sort of a cover-up job. Otherwise you're likely to try sniffing in real life... =/. Try taking a big whiff right now. see how it feels? Now try re-creating that feeling in your head without breathing in. Its a little tricky, but thats how you can "breath" in your dream =)

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## LucidDreamGod

Ok I got a question not about the method, but to you arby, have you had any success with this technique, if so how long did it take you, how much practice was involved, I'm very interested in nowing this if anyone has success with this tech.

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## arby

Well, i'm a natural. I've tried analyzing what exactly I do to get lucid ever since I learned about LDs. I wanted to share how I did it and thats how this was born. Thats why its so oriented towards that philosophical part of what makes up a dream. So, even if people can't quite do this (i've tried it out myself, mind you) they should be much better off with other techniques.

But its alot harder to figure out what you're doing when you're not really concentrating on doing a technique. When I tried paying attention and analyzed what was happening inside my head, nothing happened because I didn't consciously know the next step.

Its taken over a year (check sign up date) but I think I've got a firm grasp now on what I do

Therefore this topic isn't about "ARBY'S #1 100% VILD TECH" because that would just be silly. This thread teaches the basics so people may expand upon it. Indisputably, the best technique for you will always be one of your own creation, one that fits you. Take what I say here to heart, but do not hold to it singularly, experiment and try to find your own path. =)

But then, following techs that have worked for others is always a good start to that.. XD

jeez i tend to ramble... lol

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## LucidDreamGod

So is that a yes, as in you've done this technique throughout your life, you were always good at it and never needed to train your mind to do it.

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## arby

> So is that a yes, as in you've done this technique throughout your life,



yes, as long as I can remember




> you were always good at it



yes, as long as I can remember




> and never needed to train your mind to do it.



I couldn't honestly tell you. I have little to no memory of my dreams more then a few years ago. I never really paid much attention untill I found out about LDing.

I never trained myself to be able to visualize better or attain lucidity but there are things in my past that may play part.

There IS one dream I remember clearly however. I had a phone in my hand and it didn't seem to want to leave me. I would smash it, pry it off with other objects, blast it (this was lucid, btw) but even if I got it off, it would simply return in perfect condition. I think this was a turning point in how I viewed and reacted to my mind (and therefore, why I remember this above all others) I pretty much worked to defy my mind from that point onwards whenever it turned against me like this (I got weird, illogical impulses and urges. I still do, but not to that extent) and I would batter it down again using my will power. Of course, this has huge effects on my manipulation of the dream world, being able to bend things to my will. It does wonders for dream control but I have no idea what effect it would have when I'm trying to get lucid. 

I heard an excellent quote today. "it is impossible for one to truly understand another. He can only hope they are quite like himself" I love this quote. I don't know if I'm normal or not. I've always suspected that I may have (mild at least) OCD. If only I could get inside the brain of another. Just for a day then I could truly be able to understand.

But alas, I cannot. Therefore I must hope that they are quite like myself, and this will help them to Lucid Dream.

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## A Humble Sinner

Arby, you are a GENIUS.

Thank you so much for this thread!

I've been a total failure at everything else. MILD, WILD, DEILD...you name it. I've always naturally tried to visualise dreams when trying WILD (A method I'd have liked to succeed at because of the whole straight into lucid dream thing) but I didn't know how to do it properly.

I saw your tutorial last night and tried it when I went to bed. It was hard for me when I tried it first because I couldn't zonk out properly. The blackness behind my eyes kept overriding my fragile visualisated scene. I tried again a short while later. I was able to zonk out better and when I brought sight, sound and feel into it together the scene I was visualising expanded to all around me and my scene transitioned to a shaky dream. I guess this is what you meant by stablization - I was in the scene properly and it had expanded to surround me. It was really running itself, but I still had to concentrate to keep it together.

I lost lucidity slightly when I did that, making me suspicious at first when I woke up it might have failed and that it had been a DILD. But I remembered that the scene I had created was stable throughout with no laspe of dream conciousness in it, so I guess it was ok.

 :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie: 

That was the FIRST TIME a technique has worked for me properly! And that was my first shot at VILD.

I'm going to keep doing this, I really think it's going to work. Also, I had a hard time getting enough touch into my dream when I was standing, so I entered the dream on a horse. Now, I can't really say anything about tht yet, I have no idea how good it is, but I'll keep trying it.

Oh yeah! Thank's for the tutorial, arby!

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## Altair

I will try this tonight (although it might not work since I'll be on a plane). All techniques have failed for me so far but MILD has been the best so I'll try this for a while, if not I'm back to MILD  :smiley:

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## zobey

This sounds great! It is something to keep your mind on while WILDing and creates the dreamscape of your choice at the same time! Can it be done right when going to sleep, or is it like all the others, best during WBTB/morning?

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## DreamChaser

So I can visualise in my minds eye, say my dining room in my house. 
But when I do the look through my eyelids thing, I just see black and get some colours etc towards SP.
Which one should I be using? If it is the looking through eyelids at the blackness and form an image there, I have never been able to create an image on the black canvas.
How do you do it, or is it all with the minds eye?
Can anyone elaborate?

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## lucidboarder

this sounds like a great method thank you for posting such a detailed description. I have a couple of questions.

After we capture the senses of the dream, should we start thinking of doing actions even if we are just visualizing it, and then eventually your mind will take over, or do we just play with the senses until we feel we have switched into a dream state?

also i am on a search for a non-DILD method that doesnt cause SP because frankly the experience is one i would wish to avoid. So does this VILD method cause SP?

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## Amelaclya

I'm sorry, this may be a stupid question but I'm new here  :smiley:  

Does this method manage to skip over SP? I tried a normal WILD breath counting technique the other day and the rapid pulse I got during SP made me think I was having a heart attack  :tongue2:  I don't really want to give up on WILDs, but I'm not brave enough to try that method again yet!  :smiley:

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## james-25:22pm

in regards to everyone asking about SP: 

as far as i have learned from this forum everyone is different and every attempt is different.
sometimes youd feel SP, sometimes you wouldnt. but if you are building a scene, you would probably not be concentrating on how youre real body feels

 DreamChaser:
visualising is not about looking at the 'blackness'. its about trying to make a picture in your mind

if you actually see something in that blackness; towards SP or whatever; its most likely H.I

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## arby

I haven't checked this in a while. Pleased to see that people are still seeing it even when its not bumped up to the very top.





> Arby, you are a GENIUS.
> 
> Thank you so much for this thread!
> 
> I've been a total failure at everything else. MILD, WILD, DEILD...you name it. I've always naturally tried to visualise dreams when trying WILD (A method I'd have liked to succeed at because of the whole straight into lucid dream thing) but I didn't know how to do it properly.
> 
> I saw your tutorial last night and tried it when I went to bed. It was hard for me when I tried it first because I couldn't zonk out properly. The blackness behind my eyes kept overriding my fragile visualisated scene. I tried again a short while later. I was able to zonk out better and when I brought sight, sound and feel into it together the scene I was visualising expanded to all around me and my scene transitioned to a shaky dream. I guess this is what you meant by stablization - I was in the scene properly and it had expanded to surround me. It was really running itself, but I still had to concentrate to keep it together.
> 
> I lost lucidity slightly when I did that, making me suspicious at first when I woke up it might have failed and that it had been a DILD. But I remembered that the scene I had created was stable throughout with no laspe of dream conciousness in it, so I guess it was ok.
> ...



Although I wouldn't quite suggest relying on a VILD if you haven't had much success already, I'm happy that you got a decent result out of it. 

Yes, the lapse in lucid awareness is a very apparent part of the VILD (at least my version). You cannot truly keep awareness and let go enough to transfer to a true dream state. Often, you can expect this tech to dump you into a semi-lucid state. Depending on your perspective, this may be a great downfall or a fantastic plus side. I personally like semis so... go figure why I VILD. XD Also, you talked about perhaps having a DILD afterwards. Its a likely scenario if you went semi-lucid when your dream stabilized. Semi to full is a very short jump.

But, practice, practice, practice. If you're having trouble with touch, do small memory exercises right before bed. Think of what actions you will be doing when you first enter it and try to create an imprint of that in your mind. It makes it exponentially easier. (especially with the senses we normally ignore)





> This sounds great! It is something to keep your mind on while WILDing and creates the dreamscape of your choice at the same time! Can it be done right when going to sleep, or is it like all the others, best during WBTB/morning?



WBTB time works great because you have that imprint in your mind of what the dream was like. Just like almost all techniques, this is made easier in the morning. For this tech however, I don't find the perks of doing it at WBTB to be as large as the others however. You will not be likely to succeed at WBTB time if you cannot even get a decent VILD at other times.





> So I can visualise in my minds eye, say my dining room in my house. 
> But when I do the look through my eyelids thing, I just see black and get some colours etc towards SP.
> Which one should I be using? If it is the looking through eyelids at the blackness and form an image there, I have never been able to create an image on the black canvas.
> How do you do it, or is it all with the minds eye?
> Can anyone elaborate?



I would say neither. The closest is the minds eye but thats still a little bit off.

This will probably sound really weird but stick with me as I try to explain it. You see through the eyes of your dream self. This is TOTAL detachment from your body. Its not a picture in your head or an image painted on your eyelid, but a separate eye entity.

These work just as your body works in a dream. Just as if you are feeling your dream arm and lifting your dream arm, you can see through the eyes of your dream self. Where to begin... What do your eyes feel like? BACK to the whole craziness of things we never notice anymore. Your eyes have a physical presence. When you try to look in your mind's eye, you probably feel a void. This is the lack of your eyes. Now, how do you figure out what your eyes feel like? Quite simple actually, make them differ from their current state. Hold your eyes open for a minute or so. Now you can most definitely feel them. Once you think you have the feeling down, we apply touch. Close your eyes and concentrate on the feeling that your eyes have. Look as if in your minds eye but with the eyes you have created. you should get at least SOME improvement if you can hold it together.

Why isn't this in the tut? Well I just realized it now after I though about exaclty where I see from. Life is a learning experience, eh? But I DID say touch was important, no?





> this sounds like a great method thank you for posting such a detailed description. I have a couple of questions.
> 
> After we capture the senses of the dream, should we start thinking of doing actions even if we are just visualizing it, and then eventually your mind will take over, or do we just play with the senses until we feel we have switched into a dream state?
> 
> also i am on a search for a non-DILD method that doesnt cause SP because frankly the experience is one i would wish to avoid. So does this VILD method cause SP?



Personally, I have never encountered SP. You should be pretty safe with this. SP is really your body falling asleep, right? In this tech, you are already long into the dream world by the time that happens.

As for your question, you can do either assuming it's engaging and distracting enough.





> I'm sorry, this may be a stupid question but I'm new here  
> 
> Does this method manage to skip over SP? I tried a normal WILD breath counting technique the other day and the rapid pulse I got during SP made me think I was having a heart attack  I don't really want to give up on WILDs, but I'm not brave enough to try that method again yet!



SP isn't really something to be afraid of. But yes, you should be safe (as mentioned above)

----------


## sdlac

I've got a question and a problem =0!

How long should this be taking (at the longest)?  I tried for about an hour last night and a little less a few other nights and couldn't transition into a dream.  And that's my problem, my visualizations are very vivid, I have a few clear ideas to use for scenes, and I can hold all the senses together pretty well, but I get stuck at that point.  0_0

----------


## arby

> I've got a question and a problem =0!
> 
> How long should this be taking (at the longest)?  I tried for about an hour last night and a little less a few other nights and couldn't transition into a dream.  And that's my problem, my visualizations are very vivid, I have a few clear ideas to use for scenes, and I can hold all the senses together pretty well, but I get stuck at that point.  0_0



You need to transition into the dream.

Go and do something simple. Walk around, explore. Start throwing stuff at DCs if you want.. XD

If you want something that helps you transition, conjure up a chess board or some other game. Play it against someone. When the game is done, the dream should have transitioned. If you're afraid you might forget that it's a dream, write down "this is a dream" on a piece of paper and put it to the side. When the game is over, pick it up and read it.

Don't think about your real body and don't go asking yourself "has it worked yet?" You'll usually be able to tell when its become a dream if you remain vigilant in your awareness. Things will pop up that "you" did not create and weird things will begin to happen.

The time it takes fluctuates alot. A snappy WBTB time VILD can take about 30 seconds to become stable while a late night one can sometimes even take up to 20 minutes. If its taking up to an hour however, somethings not right. If you're having trouble stabilizing the dream and you're doing it before sleep, try doing it at WBTB time. It tends to be an easier shift. Don't allow yourself to wake up very much either. you want to go right back in.

----------


## Harrycombs

Great tutorial! I'll try this tonight!

----------


## StJohnny

Thanks for the awesome tutorial arby, I didn't see this. Any kind of WILDing/VILDing always reminds me of meditation and hypnosis so much.

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## innerCker

Sounds like a pretty awesome method.  I almost found myself by the lake as i read it!!!  Can't wait to try it.  :smiley:

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## vinn

awsome job on the titoria; when i first attempted wild i actually did this sort of but my question is are you supposed to stay totally still while doing this ? just like in a wild because when i did this my mind just went blank like my scene wich was a basketball court went black i felt like i was inside my body but couldnt do anything about it and then i didnt exactly know what to do afterthat

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## arby

> awsome job on the titoria; when i first attempted wild i actually did this sort of but my question is are you supposed to stay totally still while doing this ? just like in a wild because when i did this my mind just went blank like my scene wich was a basketball court went black i felt like i was inside my body but couldnt do anything about it and then i didnt exactly know what to do afterthat



You should keep your real life body still but it's fine to move your dream body. In fact, I encourage you to do some sort of action in the dream. After talking to quite a few people, it has become apparent that doing drastic things off the bat isn't as bad as I'd thought. I'm currently in the middle of a re-write for this tut because of that and a few other things. But moving and doing lucid stuff should be fine as long as you keep calm and don't get too excited.

----------


## blakkin

This is brilliant. Thanks for this !

I have always wanted to try VILD, it just always stuck out to me, but I never quite got it... like I somehow felt that I could do it, I think I'm pretty good at visualizing things. I just have a feeling that this is the right tech for me, you know?

Well, I will be trying this over the next week. For some reason, my recall has completely stopped for the lats couple days  :Sad:  so when it comes back, ill be on top of this... ill try a bit anyway until then though.

Thanks!

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## vinn

Thanks alot !

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## SuiT

This techniques looks great, you did a very good job writing it.
I once woke up (before I read about LD), and then went to the couch in my living room, and I closed my eyes and started to visualize the living room, not because I wanted, but because I was there and I started to fall asleep and then a DC entered my visualization (This was the beginning of the dream, because I didn't imagined the DC), but I got to excited imagining the scene and seeing it in a dream that I woke up. It was a bit like VILD but without much lucidity and with a very easy scenery to remember and imagine.
I've tried the technique like you wrote it but It was after I slept 9 hours and I waited a lot of time but didn't entered the dream stage... Maybe I slept to much? =P
Congratulations for the great tutorial.

----------


## italianmonkey

sort of tried.
sounds promising, because it seemed to easily give partial results
(once i managed to build me and my clothes and get me to dream, then lost it, and another time in this same night i got in a decent scenary. none of the two i got actually lucid, but that was better than nothing)

----------


## Barns

> hey good tutorial, i have one question though. 
> 
> while you're imagining the sound of yourself breathing, etc. in your dream world, how do you keep from concentrating on yourself breathing in real life? I would confuse the sound of my breathing with the sounds i imagine in the dream area.



Hmmn. Thats a tricky one.
I think if you are having problems it would be best to leave it out.

----------


## Dream Boat

this...  sounds...  FREAKIN AWESOME!!  ::D:  ::D:  ::D: ...

i cant wait to try this. Iv'e recently just got out of my dry spell and looking for a new technique to expand on!, thanks a bunch dude!.. I LOVE YOU  ::muffin::

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## SunShadow

Man, you've interested me... I've not been into LDs since mid-late 2006; I stopped for various reasons.

However, this looks both easy (compared to other tecniques) and effective; if it works I'll be back in the business soon  :wink2: 

I'll let you know!

(I also want to thank italianmonkey who pointed me at this thread: thanks!  :smiley: )

----------


## Falsn

I'm concentrating on VILD for the month of February. I'll report throughout the month  :smiley:

----------


## hootman

Also, if you are new to this, try to start out in a world that you know very well (your office at work, your room, etc.) When I started out, I tried to see mountians and such. After a little, I would forget some details, and it was just very hard to start out on.

One of the best things about this though is that after you complete it, you have the image of the place in your mind that you can go back to. I made a place in medieval times that I go back to every night, and i add on to it a little every time i go back. I am king in this kingdom, and it is really a second life.

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## Vegan

VILDs have worked for me on occasion, but a lot of times I end up having an incredibly vivid non LD. Sometimes I'll have DILD that came from the VILD, but vivid dreams are better than blurry dreams.

----------


## arby

> Also, if you are new to this, try to start out in a world that you know very well (your office at work, your room, etc.) When I started out, I tried to see mountians and such. After a little, I would forget some details, and it was just very hard to start out on.
> 
> One of the best things about this though is that after you complete it, you have the image of the place in your mind that you can go back to. I made a place in medieval times that I go back to every night, and i add on to it a little every time i go back. I am king in this kingdom, and it is really a second life.



This man speaks truth =)

An office or your house might not be the most fun places to start, but they can provide good starting scenarios. Otherwise, it is highly reccomended that you use other memories/previous dream scenarios to boost yourself up.

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## warock

NICE ONE ARBY!
definatly focusing on this method for the next month. I have a few questions...
1) Is it ok to wake up with an alarm clock?
2) Should i stay still and keep my eyes shut after waking or can i take a quick leek?
3) What sleeping position is best to induce a VILD?
4) How many hours into my sleep should i wake up, the usuall 5-6?

----------


## arby

> NICE ONE ARBY!
> definatly focusing on this method for the next month. I have a few questions...
> 1) Is it ok to wake up with an alarm clock?
> 2) Should i stay still and keep my eyes shut after waking or can i take a quick leek?
> 3) What sleeping position is best to induce a VILD?
> 4) How many hours into my sleep should i wake up, the usuall 5-6?



To get good answers to those questions, it would probably be best to talk to a DEILD expert as I typically pay very little attention to those sorts of details. 

what I can say is:

alarm clock can easily ruin your chance of getting back into a dream easily

go ahead and walk around a bit as long as you don't really "wake up" to do so.

Sleep however you are comfortable - you don't want to feel your real body

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## warock

ARBY YOU ARE A GOD  ::bowdown:: 
after reading your tutorial yesterday i set my alarm clock 4 and a half hours into my sleep, waking me at my REM period. After putting my alarm off and going to the bathroom, I lay still in my bed imagining my room in the morning.
after 5-15 minutes i found my self standing in my room in broad day light.
The dream lasted a few seconds long but i was fully lucid. After waking i lay still again and pictured the scenario you described in your tutorial. Soon i was standing in a lush forest. apperantly hiding from a man. When he eventually found me i tried to rape him ::?:  dont ask why(im straight btw). After that dream i woke up again repeted the same process and this time pictured my school. I ended up in my school cafeteria and i was stealing 10 euros from a snack machine but my bro caught me, i should have done better things with my time but in that dream i was only semi-lucid. After waking up AGAIN i pictured my school a second time. This time i found myself walking by the school gate where a circus took place. The whole place was covered in plants and HUGE green vines. This was the most lucid and vivid dream of all the ones i had so far. An old lady was crossing the street so i decided to complete the months basic task by asking an old granny if i was ignorant to which she replyed yes.
I was satisfied with this answer as i still wanted to do other things before it ended. Then i remembered the months advanced task. But in the dream i thought it was to levitate a ginipig. so i walked around the circus for a bit and found a clown telling me to play this game.
The goal of the game was to lift up these pots that had different pigs in them, i found a ginipip in the 3rd pot but wasn't able to levitate it, then the dream came to an end. The amount of adventure i had that night was overwhelming.
I had as much LD's with that VILD last night than WILDS since October.
Great work arby definatly the most helpful guide i have read yet, WELL DONE!

----------


## lonestarx

hey arby I was wondering if what Im exp is VILD:

well I usually wake up 15mins before I need to wake up for school to either go back to bed or get a early start on the day. This is after aboult 7 to 8hrs of sleep. I would wake up, turn my cellphone alarm off and close my eyes to go back to sleep( my mom usually wakes me up at the rigth time I need to anyways.) What happens is a whole bunch of thoughts come into my mind. But then somehow Im able to start seeing this vividly to the point that I get dazed. To best explain this is when you daydream and you get to the point that you start seeing things you didnt even think off happen. Here's an example:

I wake up and go back to sleep. Then the thought of taking a piss usually happens. Then soon I imagine ( without intention most of the time but in my mind I get up physically) myself walking up to the bathroom and taking a piss but then I would wake up in the middle of the piss in my bed. Which I think could be a VILD or maybe even a FA. But I was up a minute ago. Another example is when I was thinking aboult my friend not texting me back so afterwhile I did decide to check it and I got a text of my friend being stupid LOL I even sent one in return. Then I went back to bed but woke up a minute later due to my mom waking me up. I woke up checked my phone and The text wasnt there  ::eh::  ::imslow::  ::sad2:: 
another would be when I was thinking aboult playing my psp and afterwhile I decided to get out of bed and get my psp from my cabinet. But the laziness got the best of me so I put it back and I went back to bed. I woke up and remebered MY FREAKING PSP WAS UPSTAIRES!! so how did I grab it?? 

This is very confusing me because sometimes this does happen when I daydream to the point that Im in my own world. Sorry this is so long, I just got back my comp lol been typing on my psp  :Sad: . Anyways I hope you can help me Arby and great job  :smiley:

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## arby

> ARBY YOU ARE A GOD
> Great work arby definatly the most helpful guide i have read yet, WELL DONE!



congrats  ::thumbup:: 





> hey arby I was wondering if what Im exp is VILD:



Na, thats sounds like its just normal dreams. a VILD is where you consciously incubate the dream to some extent. The keyword there being consciously.

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## AnDUHrew

thx i will definately try this!

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## hootman

Hey I always fall asleep...how long do you wake up for?

----------


## Venomblood

For some reason, I can visualize better with my eyes open.  But then I can't go into a dream.  Hmm, suggestions?

----------


## arby

> Hey I always fall asleep...how long do you wake up for?



You mean at DEILD time? Usually you go right back to sleep. And you don't want to "not fall asleep" You simply want to fall asleep in a controlled way and with awareness. Concentrate more on staying lucid as you drift off if need be =)





> For some reason, I can visualize better with my eyes open.  But then I can't go into a dream.  Hmm, suggestions?



If you can visualize well with your eyes open, you're probably only a step away from being able to do it with your eyes closed. Although, I must say that you are a strange case. Most people are the other way around =O.

Anyway, try to bring up a visualization with your eyes open then, once it's fairly stable, close your eyes. See if that works for you =)

----------


## Exhalent

> After a short while, it should feel much easier to maintain. In fact, you may not even have to think about it at all to keep everything running! Now, DO NOT DO ANYTHING *DARASTIC!*



Sorry to seem like a jerk, but I think you might want to fix DRASTIC.  :wink2: 
btw: This guide is great!

----------


## gangsterwu

I hate you and I slept with your mom last night!  ::banana:: 
jk
nice guide! I'll try this tonight and over the Easter break  :wink2:

----------


## i make it rain

this question has kind of been asked a few times but mine is a little different. 

i have a pretty bad recall and i usually do not remember my dream when i wake up to do WBTB. so DEILD is out of the question. with this, would you get out of bed before VILDing or would you recommend staying in bed and just start visualizing?

----------


## lagunagirl

excellent!! One question though
I have a hard time imagining the feel of something. I can get visuals and sound very easily, I just have a hard time with imagining the way things feel. Did you already mention the exercise you had for us if we weren't good at that? Cause if you did I think I missed it. If not I would like to know how I can get better at it.

----------


## Stryk9

wow i tried this last BEFORE i even went to sleep and made it to the vibrations and 10 seconds of paralysis (intensely) setting in through the visualization alone, damn didn't think it work that well.  I didn;t drop into a lucid but i hadn't slept at all yet so REM was unlikely anyway.  It was a very intense paralysis though, my pulse was like BAM BAM BAM, hahah.  I had been visualizing a scene on my campus lawn and kept adding tactile details, and then i visualized a girl walking by with a book bag, and right then the bag had a green apple on the side, and this green apple design hadnt been added by me, thats when the paralysis started.  Neat stuff, I'll try it again.

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## Ivi942

While reading your tut I started visualizing the lake you wrote about. But since I had trouble vizualizing the mountains and the smell of the lake. I imagined myself standing in front of the sea, wind blowing through my hair and the fresh sea air... It was really fantastic!
 But I have a question. When I imagine myself touching something e.g. an apple it feels as if there is another me whom is doing all that and sending me the feeling. It's really odd. Does everyone feel like that?
Anyway I'll try it out tonight.

----------


## Elite Dreamer

Where I read about the VILD technique, it went further and said that it helps to figure out a scenario that helps you become lucid like meeting someone at the lake to tell you that you're dreaming or to tell you to do a reality check. My scenario is at my girlfriends house and I'm standing outside her door and she tells me that I'm dreaming and opens the door. Then as soon as I go through the door I enter a Lucid Dream. I want to actually go through the scenario with her and film it too so I can get a more detailed feel of what it should be like. Then I can watch the footage over and over.

( My girlfriend will think I'm crazy  :tongue2:  )

----------


## ccrinbama

I just finished reading.
It was a very enjoyable read, surprisingly enough. This may end up becoming what I read before I attempt WILDs at 5:30 in the morning.
Great visualization, great feel for the whole thing.
Thanks a whole lot.

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## Elwood

Thanks Arby! I've been working on a new method of straight to bed technique, and this definitely helped.

----------


## arby

Oh dear, replies have been stacking up... I'll try to answer them XD





> this question has kind of been asked a few times but mine is a little different. 
> 
> i have a pretty bad recall and i usually do not remember my dream when i wake up to do WBTB. so DEILD is out of the question. with this, would you get out of bed before VILDing or would you recommend staying in bed and just start visualizing?



I'd recommend staying in bed personally. Unless you tend to wake up agitated or something. Some people find it easier to get up and do something monotonous or they'll never get back to sleep. Just do what you think feels best at the time.





> excellent!! One question though
> I have a hard time imagining the feel of something. I can get visuals and sound very easily, I just have a hard time with imagining the way things feel. Did you already mention the exercise you had for us if we weren't good at that? Cause if you did I think I missed it. If not I would like to know how I can get better at it.



Heh, I was gonna have an exercise, wasn't I? XD

But then I realized that I didn't have anything that was better then trying to learn a feeling be experiencing it in real life then trying to imagine it (as described at the bottom of the first post)





> While reading your tut I started visualizing the lake you wrote about. But since I had trouble vizualizing the mountains and the smell of the lake. I imagined myself standing in front of the sea, wind blowing through my hair and the fresh sea air... It was really fantastic!
>  But I have a question. When I imagine myself touching something e.g. an apple it feels as if there is another me whom is doing all that and sending me the feeling. It's really odd. Does everyone feel like that?
> Anyway I'll try it out tonight.



Just before I answer your question, great work with the scene choosing. Thats exactly how you should do it =)

Yeah, often touch can feel quite strange but that is okay. You are just at a low level of self-delusion at first. Ignore all weird stuff like that and keep exploring and making awesome dream scenes.





> Where I read about the VILD technique, it went further and said that it helps to figure out a scenario that helps you become lucid like meeting someone at the lake to tell you that you're dreaming or to tell you to do a reality check. My scenario is at my girlfriends house and I'm standing outside her door and she tells me that I'm dreaming and opens the door. Then as soon as I go through the door I enter a Lucid Dream. I want to actually go through the scenario with her and film it too so I can get a more detailed feel of what it should be like. Then I can watch the footage over and over.
> 
> ( My girlfriend will think I'm crazy  )



Haha, don't make it too awkward between the two of you. Real life > dreams always.





> Thanks Arby! I've been working on a new method of straight to bed technique, and this definitely helped.



Good to know I helped =)

----------


## Fiddler's Green

I think your original post was a great addition and help to many.

Tonight I will use this method of entering into a WILD in conjunction with my normal meditation.  I will also be using B-6 and some nicotine gum.  I will post the results in the thread I'm using to keep a record of my experiences with different supplements.

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## mandy2583

Okay I am sorta confused with your technique I am eager to try so here are my questions. . .

Well lets say I tried right here at my desk wouldn't I be asleep once i got into th lucid dream or is it kind off a hallucination but wouldn't you need sp so you wouldn't act out your dream????

Also what times do you reccommend you try it???etc. before bed after bed midday???

----------


## arby

> Okay I am sorta confused with your technique I am eager to try so here are my questions. . .
> 
> Well lets say I tried right here at my desk wouldn't I be asleep once i got into th lucid dream or is it kind off a hallucination but wouldn't you need sp so you wouldn't act out your dream????
> 
> Also what times do you reccommend you try it???etc. before bed after bed midday???



Don't try it at your desk and hope to succeed =P (at least, not if you have no VILD/V-WILD experience)

Try it at the normal tech times such as DEILD time.

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## Mr_Jinsue

I'm looking into the visualisation techs to help try the new GILD/MFG but your point about building yourself and 'feeling' clothes might not be quite correct because when you first put clothes on you do feel them yes. But once you have had a shirt on for a while you don't notice it, that isn't your consciousness forgetting it but your body's nerves in that area actually slow down and some shutoff, there is a name for it but I can't remember what its called. The point is, if your body feels something the same continually it shuts off to it, lest your mind get overloaded with too much petty sensory info.
Good tut though  :smiley: 

Cheers

----------


## Ivi942

I'm getting pretty good at this! (Though I still have a looooong way to go  :wink2: ). I'm pretty good at what I see and hear in the dream, but the taste and smell feel really weird  :tongue2: .
I once tried Vilding while riding in a car, I imagined I grew wings and flew above the car(It's really hard to feel both the arms and the wings >_<). Then I nearly fell asleep, but somebody woke me up  :Eek: .
Also, I noticed a weird thing - whenever I try to fall asleep and there's some noise around me, my mind sorta takes the sounds and makes it into background music or something  ::shock::  Like the car noises - there was some odd tune playing in my dream the whole time  ::D: 
I'm gonna try Vilding again tonight  :smiley:

----------


## Tarsier

This sounds pretty friggin' sweet. I'm going to try this tonight.

But I'm still going to haunt you for killing me in that thread. -_<

----------


## Happiness is a Warm Gun

I think you're on the right track, but oversimplifying. We have many more than 5 senses, and most of them are just generalizations anyway. For example, we have a sense of balance and a sense of pain, but both are often assumed to be part of our sense of touch, though they've been otherwise for over 100 years. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense

----------


## Ryuinfinity

You don't need 500 different senses for and LD. How about heat and cold? Does anyone ever care whether they are affected by temperature in LDs? Though not.

----------


## arby

> I think you're on the right track, but oversimplifying. We have many more than 5 senses, and most of them are just generalizations anyway. For example, we have a sense of balance and a sense of pain, but both are often assumed to be part of our sense of touch, though they've been otherwise for over 100 years. 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense



VERY interesting.

By touch, I meant to include those although now that they are brought to my specific attention, they are pretty large players of their own. I do not believe that balance and temperature are necessary to induce a V-WILD, however. I essentially touched on kinesthetic sense and kinesthetic sense should be decently automatic in a dream due to your innate knowledge of everything existing in the dream.

I will start experimenting, however. I'm really curious how much more realism I could add by inducing these senses. I am even more curious what I can do by warping these senses as well and taking them past human barriers. Imagine extreme heat or extreme cold without pain =D

Then, I noticed a list of non-human senses. These shall be interesting to play with indeed.

In short, I'm going to do some tests and trials and i'll report back with any VILD-related info or modifications I stumble upon.

----------


## a_friend543

Hey, sweet tutorial, I've got some questions though on the transition to dream phase.

For example, it just kinda jumps over the whole move to dream thing very quickly. So I'll be visualizing, but I can do that anywhere. You also say imagine yourself doing something, but I can also do that anywhere.

And when I do imagine myself doing something in my head, I do it, then it's over. I'm still totally aware that I'm awake and if I try to move I actually move in bed, and ruin the whole thing.

Hope you can help.

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## arby

It's a matter of really immersing yourself in the dream. Create a character, create a plot, explore... Find interest in your dreamscape. There has to be something going on that interests you.

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## LucidDreamGod

I still find visualization out of all of the senses the hardest. 

This may sound like nonsense but...

I feel as if I keep trying to paint the image on my eye lids, however when I am doing it good I feel as if I am trying to "feel" the image, hard to discribe other then I try to recreate everything I feel when I am focusing on any given thing in my field of vision. The feeling isn't a normal emotion it not only defines the image but it mimics what it feels like to beable to see, what I feel like with my eyes open.

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## arby

> I feel as if I keep trying to paint the image on my eye lids, however when I am doing it good I feel as if I am trying to "feel" the image, hard to discribe other then I try to recreate everything I feel when I am focusing on any given thing in my field of vision. The feeling isn't a normal emotion it not only defines the image but it mimics what it feels like to beable to see, what I feel like with my eyes open.



I think that was very well worded =)

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## a_friend543

Thanks for the first answer, second question,

When do you recommend doing this, and how much like a WILD is it?

For instance, should I relax a while before visualizing, or just immediately start picturing my dreamscape.

Second question, the WILD one. Should I be counting my breaths or the other methods of keeping aware? Should I be expecting SP while I'm visualizing? And should I be doing WBTB for this particular method?

Thanks, I know it's a load to answer but I'm a nembie, it's what happens :smiley:

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## arby

> Thanks for the first answer, second question,
> 
> When do you recommend doing this, and how much like a WILD is it?
> 
> For instance, should I relax a while before visualizing, or just immediately start picturing my dreamscape.
> 
> Second question, the WILD one. Should I be counting my breaths or the other methods of keeping aware? Should I be expecting SP while I'm visualizing? And should I be doing WBTB for this particular method?
> 
> Thanks, I know it's a load to answer but I'm a nembie, it's what happens



First part: you should be in a situation where you are relaxed enough that you could fall asleep.

Second part: No, you don't really need to stay aware unless you are having problems falling into non-lucids or semi-lucids with this method. The point is that you pull yourself into a lucid with no real break in awareness.

SP might happen but your awareness of your real body will have faded away so much that you will not notice.

A WBTB or dream re-entry are very powerful when combined with this method. Although, they are not required. (But HIGHLY recommended for starting)

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## Ivi942

I've got another question - you wrote that when I'm already dreaming, I can tell that I'm dreaming because the dream isn't gonna be controlled by me anymore(you imagine everything in the dream and suddenly there's something you didn't imagine.). 
Well the problem is, whenever I try to Vild ,I almost don't imagine anything - everything appears sort of unconsciously. So I don't really know how to notice that I'm already dreaming  ::roll:: 
Sorry if that sounded confusing.

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## GC123

i like this technique im going to use it in my afternoon nap!
ill pin you in on the results when i wake up!!

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## Zaph

Hmm, your VILD method raises a question for me.

When you create the scene in your head, can you add in a song in some sort and start dancing to it when you see fit?

 :boogie:  *Dances to some music*

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## Ozzi99

Hey, thanks for this tut. Im just confused as to turning around. After you create your dreamscape then turn around, do you have to imagine what it will look like before you turn around or will you dream mind create it- if that makes sense.

Also, do you get the sensations of SP like when doing a WILD?

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## DarkLucideity

Do you need to be in REM, or be able to fall asleep into it, to do this technique? Or is anytime good?

EDIT: I'm talking about if you have a lot of experience in this technique, not a beginner.

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## LucidDreamGod

I still havn't given up on visualization, I keep refining my thoughts of it too, they don't change much but I'm able to grasp the concept better. I'd have to say it is like imagining the experience of physically seeing something reather then just trying to build it in your mind peice by peice. This makes sense to me because it is easier to visualize with your eyes open, basically your mind is able to grasp the experience of seeing something when your actually in the experience, in the same way that when you walk into a house even though you don't see the whole house your memory of it can come back because it unlocks memory connections in the brain. I mean this might be obvious to some of us, but some people just think of a house in the form of the details it makes up and don't see anything, because they have got to think of the experience of seeing, not the little details, and drawing it all out.

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## Xanadu

Hi, I attempted this method last night, and managed to get to the 'stabilize' phase when i fell asleep. are you supposed to try this really really tired? cuz i had trouble visualizing, but if i was awake enough to visualize, i wouldnt start dreaming...

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## DarkLucideity

Oh, one more thing I'd like to add, I tried this last night with a WBTB and I had three short semi-lucids (they were pretty unstable though). I can say that those are the best results I ever got on my first try of a tech.

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## arby

Ah, lots of replies since I last checked.

Ivi, would you describe it as a functional dreamscape or a flash/amalgamation of different sights/things that rush by pretty quickly?

Zaph: I don't see any problem with music. Indeed, dancing might be a good idea =)

Ozzi: You shouldn't have to think about/repaint the landscape as you turn. IF you have to, that means that instead of your hand being "physical" in your mind, it's just a drawing on your mind's eye. once you can get things to be "physical" and stable though stimulation of the senses, it'll fill itself in.

I've not encountered SP much doing V-WILD

poj: REM periods seriously help. This has been tried and tested and is essentially fact. Trying when you have no chance of REM is only useful for fooling around-not if you want to induce something for the sake of LDing

LDG: I think I see what you're getting at. I'd have to say that I agree.

You're getting your own theories and ideas, which is awesome. The V-WILD field seriously need some people to attack the underlying theory. I'd be thrilled on day if you made your own V-WILD tech =D

Xanadu: Really? I find visualization flows more easily when I'm tired. Well, some kinds of tired make me not in the mood but normally It's helpful

poj again: sounds great =)

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## Brassfire

Those of you who are having trouble seeing an actual picture when attempting to visualize don't blame it all on yourself.

People who are more left-brained don't see in pictures as easily, but they can sense it more.

On the flip side people who are more right-brained tend to see in pictures.

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## arby

> Those of you who are having trouble seeing an actual picture when attempting to visualize don't blame it all on yourself.
> 
> People who are more left-brained don't see in pictures as easily, but they can sense it more.
> 
> On the flip side people who are more right-brained tend to see in pictures.



I don't agree with the left vs. right analysis. They both must work together to create visual spaces. Scientific study has shown this.

The only superiority that the right brain would have is in plain painting shapes on you mind's eye which is NOT what we're trying to achieve.

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## Azuraos

Hello Arby - Great tutorial, and I`m minutes away from going away and trying it. 
I`ve read a WILD tutorial by BillyBob ( the one where he explains about the cavemen) and he said you need an anchor - be it pain, a noise, etc. 
I was thinking if your tech needs an anchor to the real world as well. And if so , can I put on my headphones and listen to music while I fall asleep or is that just TOO distracting?

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## arby

Hi, Azuraos =)

No, music won't be too distracting. I know exactly what thread you're talking about and i've talked with billybob about the whole anchor thing. Truthfully, the visualization itself should anchor you.

But music can aid visualization, especially if it's pure instrumental. (Not recommended if it's not). If you build a scene to the feeling of the music, it can help the structure of it greatly.

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## Azuraos

Thanks alot, I`ll continue WILD`ing since this is the method for me.. (sadly) because 90&#37; of my dreams are nightmares , short and violent. 
So I can`t really stop and do reality checks when the first thing I see is one of my relatives being mauled to death, or myself falling as soon as I`m dreaming. 
I will start a dream journal (which will look a bit like a Stephen King novel - if he were on crack) for my dream recall - and get my damn dream world under control  :smiley:  
Thanks again for a great guide, please keep it up  :smiley:  I`ll let you know my progress with this.

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## Apopholis

> I will start a dream journal (which will look a bit like a Stephen King novel - if he were on crack)



 ::D:  ::D:  ::D: 

Seriously though, this is a brilliant technique. I tried it yesterday, and got closer than ever to dreaming consciously. My scene is a beach, I imagine my feet sinking into the wet sand, the waves washing around my ankles, etc.
It also got rid of my main problem, my need to swallow. It kept my focus.  Eventually though, I gave up with school looming over me. Gonna try again tonight, I'll keep you posted!

P.S. So in essence this is all about keeping you occupied during SP, right? 
and controlling your first dream location?

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## Apopholis

also, sorry for double posting, but when you are visualizing, can it be in 3rd person view?

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## Nicky the nodreamer

im definatly trying this tonight  :tongue2:

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## konj

ok i tried this tex last night,heres what happened:

i fond a confortable position,and i started breathing,then i started visualaseing,i did like 3 diferent scenarios,anyway my main problem was,i was for the most of the time imagining in 3rd person,and tried to keep in 1st person,witch was very hard,anyway at one point when i felt i couldn't concentrate anymore at all(this is usually how it goes for me),a bright flash of light came from the upper left corner of my view,by that point i almost "fogot" that i had a body,and started to hear my hearth beat fast,and i just felth lighter and more distanced from my body,then i continued to do what i have done up till now,and at one point i went to relax from my imagining for a second,stepped back,and then i was ling face down outside,and i felt the suns rays shine on my and i saw them as i turned,as this was happeneing,i saw the dream in 3rd person aswell and 1st,and a lot of images when trough my head as it happened,then i realised,IM IN A DREAM!!!then it pushed me back one step back to the visualisation(during all this time i heard my brother clicking on the mouse and other noises,so that might have been a problem,that was one of two things reminding me that i was still in my own body,and reminding me to feel that i had a body)anyways i gave up,and i went to write what happened down,and it felt as if i was still asleep  ::D: 

thx for reading,plz tipz etc

GREAT TUTORIAL!

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## arby

> also, sorry for double posting, but when you are visualizing, can it be in 3rd person view?



Yeah, sure. 3rd person for sight works. That is, as long as your other senses (mainly tactile) feel as if they are in the first person. I think it might even be the phenomenon of tactile capture. 





> ok i tried this tex last night,heres what happened:
> 
> i fond a confortable position,and i started breathing,then i started visualaseing,i did like 3 diferent scenarios,anyway my main problem was,i was for the most of the time imagining in 3rd person,and tried to keep in 1st person,witch was very hard,anyway at one point when i felt i couldn't concentrate anymore at all(this is usually how it goes for me),a bright flash of light came from the upper left corner of my view,by that point i almost "fogot" that i had a body,and started to hear my hearth beat fast,and i just felth lighter and more distanced from my body,then i continued to do what i have done up till now,and at one point i went to relax from my imagining for a second,stepped back,and then i was ling face down outside,and i felt the suns rays shine on my and i saw them as i turned,as this was happeneing,i saw the dream in 3rd person aswell and 1st,and a lot of images when trough my head as it happened,then i realised,IM IN A DREAM!!!then it pushed me back one step back to the visualisation(during all this time i heard my brother clicking on the mouse and other noises,so that might have been a problem,that was one of two things reminding me that i was still in my own body,and reminding me to feel that i had a body)anyways i gave up,and i went to write what happened down,and it felt as if i was still asleep 
> 
> thx for reading,plz tipz etc
> 
> GREAT TUTORIAL!



This shows the importance of the stabilization step. You need to get to the point where the dream is stable and you won't take that step back. Other then that, you did great!

Also, as another note, welcome to DV (I see you've just joined) and I'd like to give a bit of advice. Try to work on making your posts more legible and get a browser with a built in spellcheck =)

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## konj

one i entered that dream i wasn't aware at first that it was dream,the second i remembered(5 seconds in to the dream  :tongue2: )i was pushed out

tho im not that new ^^ but thx anyways  :smiley:

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## hellohihello

Does this only work like a DEILD?

I can visualize pretty well in sleep paralysis but i am not sure what time to start this in SP

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## arby

> Does this only work like a DEILD?
> 
> I can visualize pretty well in sleep paralysis but i am not sure what time to start this in SP



The timing should be the same as essentially any WILD. Timing is interchangeable in almost any WILD (other then the ones that are based on time like DEILD, of course)

And what do you mean, from SP? Are you referring to jeff's tech?

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## hellohihello

> The timing should be the same as essentially any WILD. Timing is interchangeable in almost any WILD (other then the ones that are based on time like DEILD, of course)
> 
> And what do you mean, from SP? Are you referring to jeff's tech?



Yup, the thing is I never really completed a WILD so I do not know when to start visualizing.

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## arby

> Yup, the thing is I never really completed a WILD so I do not know when to start visualizing.



The general consensus is that DEILD/WBTB time tends to be best for WILDs

But, there are LOTS of techs out there that try different timing schemes. The great thing about it all is it's modularity. It's a fact that people don't seem to realize, but you can mix any tech with any timing scheme and relaxation scheme.

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## hellohihello

> The general consensus is that DEILD/WBTB time tends to be best for WILDs
> 
> But, there are LOTS of techs out there that try different timing schemes. The great thing about it all is it's modularity. It's a fact that people don't seem to realize, but you can mix any tech with any timing scheme and relaxation scheme.




Thanks for the answer  :smiley:  I will try it out later!

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## wwe101

bump

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## ca1um132

> bump



Why did you bump a thread and not say anything about the actual thread?

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## wwe101

how long does it usually take to do this

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## IndigoGhost

> bump



Someone came from 4chan  ::D: 

Shameless self bump.

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## marcc

> Someone came from 4chan 
> 
> Shameless self bump.



Someone else from 4chan?  :wink2: 

Anyway, I think that VILDing is for people who can; if you visualized before you knew it was visualization, go ahead. Otherwise...

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## Vlad

So, I tried this last night, and it was a lot harder than I though it would be. I easily managed to think of my surroundings and all my senses (except for breathing, which I can't really understand too well) but my problem is that every few seconds or so, my mind occasionally does something random that I, myself can't control. Like I'm busy walking around in my dreamscape and for a second I observe myself in a third person view. Will this have any sort of negative effect on whether i can become lucid or not?

Also, my heart rate seems to increase by a lot whenever I imagine all the senses combined, is this normal?

I haven't managed to get further than to build a complete dreamscape, but still have to maintain it.

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## blakkin

I don't know much about VILD, but that sounds like progress to me.

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## TunaSammich

I was born without the ability to smell... am I disadvantaged in becoming lucid this way?

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## DarkLucideity

> I was born without the ability to smell... am I disadvantaged in becoming lucid this way?



Probably not, there's not much focus on smell in VILDs, and if you didn't have it anyway, it wouldn't matter.

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## Something Else

Thanks for the tuturial.  I enjoyed reading it and I think you have some very interesting ideas and experiences.  I was especially excited to see your focus on the 5 senses.  I have often thought about things that have mirror your own testaments here.  I have some questions.

1. How successful has this technique been for you?  Do you use it often?  If so, about how often and how many times do you use it?

2.  I am very interested in your comments on stabalization of dreams and extension of dreams.  This is a problem of mine.  Do you feel using more senses is crucial to stabalizing and extension?  How long might your average lucid dream last?

3.  I have found that my better lucid dreams usually include at least 3 senses, and that I often for whatever reason stop at 3.  I have experienced most combinations of these and realize lucid dreams can take on all different forms.  Do you think it is important to include and activate all 5 senses in a dream, or is 4 or 3 okay?  I personally do not often activate all 5 very often; at most I might activate 4.  

Looking forward to hearing your insights.  Thanks

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## DarkLucideity

I know I posted on this thread a while ago with some success, but since I'm currently starting to put serious work into VILD, I have a few questions. Before you answer my questions you should know that my visualization skills are great. I can pull a detailed scene together well even while sitting at my desk reading a tutorial  :tongue2: . My first question is, how does a visualization turn into a dream and what affects this process? It confuses me as to how something I'm simply imagining can turn into a dream that supports itself. Second, though this technique is recommended to be done at DEILD time, when I just wake up I can hardly focus on the visual part of a scene. What should I do? Try it at a different time, work on my focus, etc.?

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## D-Shizzle

I'm definantley trying this tonight. thx! ::banana::

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## arby

Lets get down to answerin questions here =D





> So, I tried this last night, and it was a lot harder than I though it would be. I easily managed to think of my surroundings and all my senses (except for breathing, which I can't really understand too well) but my problem is that every few seconds or so, my mind occasionally does something random that I, myself can't control. Like I'm busy walking around in my dreamscape and for a second I observe myself in a third person view. Will this have any sort of negative effect on whether i can become lucid or not?
> 
> Also, my heart rate seems to increase by a lot whenever I imagine all the senses combined, is this normal?
> 
> I haven't managed to get further than to build a complete dreamscape, but still have to maintain it.



When random things happen, the trick is not to let it bother you. If you REALLY didn't want it to happen, you can employ a few tricks to get the dream back to the way it was. Reverse time, or just force the dream back to he way it was. I would say that things happening spontaneously is a sign of you getting close to a dream state.

If your heart rate is going up, I would read that as a good sign in the light that it means you are definitely getting immersed. But not so great from your whole falling asleep business. Overall, I wouldn't worry about it and enjoy any adrenaline that might get pumped around.





> I was born without the ability to smell... am I disadvantaged in becoming lucid this way?



I wouldn't say so. You probably have extra sensitivity in the other senses, correct? (more brain room devoted to them even! probably) focus on those.





> 1. How successful has this technique been for you?  Do you use it often?  If so, about how often and how many times do you use it?
> 
> 2.  I am very interested in your comments on stabalization of dreams and extension of dreams.  This is a problem of mine.  Do you feel using more senses is crucial to stabalizing and extension?  How long might your average lucid dream last?
> 
> 3.  I have found that my better lucid dreams usually include at least 3 senses, and that I often for whatever reason stop at 3.  I have experienced most combinations of these and realize lucid dreams can take on all different forms.  Do you think it is important to include and activate all 5 senses in a dream, or is 4 or 3 okay?  I personally do not often activate all 5 very often; at most I might activate 4.



1. I use unconscious variants of this automatically as I go to sleep most nights. This technique was actually derived from what I found I do to get lucid, not the other way around. (i'm a natural) I've had very good success with this.

2. I think stabalization depends more on expectations and not so much the content of the dream. If you are eternally unhappy with what you are visualizing and freaking out trying to get it right, nothing is going to last long. If you visualized a fuzzy dream and were happy with it, you could hold onto it for a long time. But having the dream bee able too fool you into feelign more real will always contribute to the stabalization of the dream.

3.  Well, at any one time when we are awake, we rearely feel all 5. 3 might actually be a more natural number for you. You don't strictly need all five. If you found 3 that you were really good at and focused on those or rotated the senses you focused on around, it might work out well.





> I know I posted on this thread a while ago with some success, but since I'm currently starting to put serious work into VILD, I have a few questions. Before you answer my questions you should know that my visualization skills are great. I can pull a detailed scene together well even while sitting at my desk reading a tutorial . My first question is, how does a visualization turn into a dream and what affects this process? It confuses me as to how something I'm simply imagining can turn into a dream that supports itself. Second, though this technique is recommended to be done at DEILD time, when I just wake up I can hardly focus on the visual part of a scene. What should I do? Try it at a different time, work on my focus, etc.?



To turn the visualization into a dream, you have to go through the process of stabalization. Essentially, letting the dream solidify around you and become an actual dream. I've never had too much good information about this step since I do it automatically but one important point if your stance on things. The best one seems to be to look casually for interesting things and avoid the “I have no direction/need for direction”stance.

As for timing, I reccommend that time mainly on the fact that others say it works best for them. You should find and use a fime that you feel is most contributing to your visualization skills.



Also, sorry for all the late replys. I don't come around here much anymore.

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## Something Else

thanks :-)

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## DashEternity

Very useful tips. One part that makes a lot of sense to me was the section on after awakening it is easier to return to the dream through visualization. I've tried this in the past but failed, so it's nice to know that it is quite possible.

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## Andywarski

awesome! I'm going to try this right now  ::D:  I've been having intense dreams every night at least and LDing once in a while so I think I could do it.  ::D:  Or perhaps fail horribly O_o

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## DashEternity

We have to lose to learn how to win.

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## Soul

2 questions.

First question, I am very good at visuallizing and can easily visuallize all the senses so I think this will be good for me but how do I make the transition from visuallization to dream, am I supposed to feel like i'm in the dream like it says you should be able to do before trying this at the start?

Second Question, Is there such thing as a "Partial Sleep Paralasys" because the first time I attempted to to a WILD (yesterday) I could do it but I eventually move and I could but when I did It was really hard but then I could move.

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## Andywarski

@arby : OMG man, dude this tech is messing with me head. Last night I had an OBE!!! LIKE HARDCORE. It was like I induced a dream. I see what your saying, the more you get more senses in at the same time and the longer it's easier to maintain many senses at the same time!. My legs slowly feel asleep AND my mind was still awake. TYhen it felt like I didnt have a body and I was like Am i dreaming?? Then I had sex in my OBE and I was like (embassing) Orgasming to the point were I was about to finish but never really finished but for like 10 minutes!! It felt so real! 

This morning was the KICKER. So I only ended up having about 5 hours of sleep, so I make it in to work (I work with my dad) and I'm dead tired, so I go in the back to nap. I try this VILD thing again but trying to go back home in my OBE. I fell asleep but really I had a false awakening in my bed at home AGAIN! I went back to work and ate KFC with my dad and sister EVEN though I do not eat it. I remember even tasting the chicken. TYhats the first time I remember eating something in my dream ever. But yeah so all these weird things did happen but it felt super real, like all my senses in my dream were intact but I never once reality checked which I regret. 

So my sister wakes me up and I was convinced I was eating KFC and I was like is there any KFC left? Shes like What?? I'm like wait, that was a dream? I'm gunna try and jump into a final fantasy type world tonight! so excited. And I got dream herb and vitmin B6 to so I'm going all the way. Oh and I got binary beats which I did use last night and this morning like I do every night.

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## LucidDreamGod

I found that I once I build up a scene with vild in order to make it come to life, I will actually have to physically walk into it or physically reach out and grab something in my scene and it will instantly solidify around me. I had never thought of that before but it works, tried it yesterday and this morning, never was able to like step into any scene, but now I think I'm on the way to getting good at actually building the dream myself. Malac had that idea with his grab technique, but yeah never saw how that could possibly work well until recently.

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## samchestido

I just wanted to say that this has been working for me for 2 nights straight now. Since I've got quite some experience with LD'ing and trying different techniques, I'm staying calm and not getting too excited because most of the time techniques work for me sparingly, so it's very probable that the following week I will get nothing out of this technique, but I'll keep up.

One question: To stabilize the dream and to make it feel more real I usually look at my hands and try to see/hear/feel every detail of the dream. This works most of the time, but the second I think that this dream COULD fall apart, it actually does.

Any help on how to NOT think about the dream falling apart at all?

----------


## Andywarski

happy to say the next morning after my previous post on this thread I LD'ed my longest LD ever and achomplished a lot of tasks I had more myself. AMAZING.

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## Folqueraine

This technique is very appealing, but I've got a very hard time visualizing (especially sight). I was wondering if anyone tried this with outside help : I was thinking, for instance, of trying to visualize a beach scene with a recording of surf and seagulls in the background, maybe with perfume reminding me of the beach.
Does this sound like a good idea or could it be distracting at some point? (IE when you want to change settings later)

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## Zelzahim

Badass tutorial man!
Really deep, explaining and beginner friendly.
Im gonna work on this whenever i get time over. Just a question, will this increase the vividness of daydreams?
Keep it going dude!

//Zelzahim

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## Andy2014

Does this have to be done during a nap or with wbtb like WILD does or can I just do when I go to bed at normal time?

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## freakyDreamer

I have done this before.  Actually I do it quite often.  If I wake up earlier than usual, I will lay there and visualize stuff.  I will imagine how it feels and looks.  A few times I forgot that I was visualizing, and was in it.  As real as a dream.  And then I suddenly think "how did I get here?"  Then I remember I am visualizing and 'snap' out of the dream.  Any suggustions on how to NOT do that?  I forget that I am visualizing and then I am in the dream I was building, not lucid, and then suddenly think of how I got there.  Should I just say to myself while I am doing it once in a while that I am visualizing, and will enter a dream lucidly?  I hope I can get to entering the dream consciously.  But, at least I will be in the dream I was thinking up.
I find it hard to visualize later in the day or when I go to bed.  Probably because I am still unconcsiouly thinking of stuff that happened in the day.  And maybe someone can answer this.  If you do this succesfully, you will be in the dream state, the same as if you had one when you were asleep, which means that after you are in the dream, you are asleep right?  So you won't lose much sleep.  And, don't you have to be in a REM cycle to have a high-quality dream.  Thus, it would be hard to do this when you are going to bed, hours away from REM.

Anyway, great post!  I have always wondered about my experiences with this.

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## thanksj

(I dont consider this dreaming yet. Although, it tends to be hard to draw the line between a dream and a visualization.)

I know what you mean. I recently had a dream where I thought if I'm Lucid I'll play the song 'Stand by Me' and I did but I couldn't classify if I was dreaming or not, so I don't count as a LD.

I'm excited to try this tonight and I might post back tomorrow.

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## thanksj

> (I dont consider this dreaming yet. Although, it tends to be hard to draw the line between a dream and a visualization.)
> 
> I know what you mean. I recently had a dream where I thought if I'm Lucid I'll play the song 'Stand by Me' and I did but I couldn't classify if I was dreaming or not, so I don't count as a LD.
> 
> I'm excited to try this tonight and I might post back tomorrow.



Sorry, I couldn't do it I had a bit of a hectic night. I'll probably try again within this week and I might post back the results if it works.

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## DreamMentor

*This technique looks very promising. I'm going to try it tonight and report back tomorrow. Thanks for posting*

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## DreamMentor

*I tried and it didn't work for me. I guess I didn't I try hard enough. I'm going to try again soon and report back soon.*

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## Elucive

I'd love to VILD. However, the effort keeps me awake. Shame.

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## SData

I've tried this technique last night and I got really close to sleep paralysis. I will try it tonight too. This works.  :smiley:

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## Vballplayer1941

I like the idea of this! I remember reading about VILDs earlier but I particularly like your tutorial. Even just picturing the image you conjured up sounds really nice. Even if I failed at the VILD the first few times, I definitely wouldn't mind falling asleep to such a peaceful image! I'm still somewhat new, but I've had a couple dreams of semi-lucidity. But I'm not really expecting it to work for one as inexperienced as me. Definitely gonna give it a try though!

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## DeeplyAwake

i tried this last night, i was thinking i'll never be able to visualise myself actually experiencing anything effectively, and everything was just like a regular thought it my mind's eye - after a few minutes i felt my eyes moving so violently behind their lids and i felt like i was spinning so i had to stop

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## MatrixMaster92

I shall use this technique while learning to WILD.

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## lucidisfree:)

great post going to try this right now thanks will post how it went tomorow  :smiley:

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## MadMonkey

Awsome i'll try this tonight when I atempt to WILD

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## PercyLucid

Very nice guide.

I have a lot of imagination and I could reproduce the hand and motion without a sweat (both closed and open eyes, I could see my hand without being there)

As you described the lake and all that stuff I was able to feel the wind in my face, the smell of the sea (I know its a lake, but the smell of the sea came to my nose) and the touch of a bare foot in the grass.  So know I just need to try it at night.

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## PatHIverson

Awesome read so far. The whole thread is very interesting. I am going to need more time to complete the whole thing. Thanks for getting the ball rolling. 





> This is a thread about VILDing and WILDing. It’s a pretty long thread but it should be a worthwhile read. I teach a bit of well.. I’ll refer to it as “philosophy” for lack of a better word. If my technique actually works for you or not, the rest should help you WILD with better clarity, vividness etc.
> 
> I guess the best way to start out a thread like this is by stating the purpose. To try and teach you how to WILD in a short time frame and pretty much anywhere. But this is directed towards people who have had multiple lucids. People who know what a lucid is and how it feels. Keep that thought in mind. How a lucid *feels*. 
> 
> Now, lets dive into the philosophical stuff. Consider this: What makes up your waking life? It’s one thing. (Well.. you COULD say five I guess... ) The five senses. Touch, sight, sound, smell, and taste. This is all you can use to prove that you are alive and this is all you can use to explore the world around you. Some of you may see where I am taking this and have noted that these are everything we (usually!) use to explore the world in our dream as well.
> 
> Simple enough?
> 
> Now, we can look at what role each plays in our dream. What we _think_ we feel, see, hear, smell and taste are what make us believe we are in the world in our head. Now, the order those senses are listed is very important. This is the order of importance that the senses tend to play in out dreams, how much each contributes to the realism of the dream and how much you will need to concentrate on each to get it to seems real. Heres a breakdown:
> ...

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## surealization

I tried this the other morning after waking up but to no avail. So i tried telling myself that my mind is in a dream and not in my body. Now this is where it gets a little weird. I don't know how i got to this stage because i truly don't remember the transition, but i was crawling through grass and found a pole sticking in the ground which i clasped with both hands. My entire vision also seemed fuzzy and very dark so was hard to make everything out. After this i must have drifted to sleep. But at the time i was crawling through grass i still knew i was in my bed. So my question is was it a visualization or the beginning of a dream? Am i on the right tracks? 

Thanks for the post dude was an awesome help. Peace.

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## OsakaHugger

I've never intentionally had a lucid dream, I'm gonna try this tonight. 

Tho I have a question, for example: When I'm reading a very detailed book, I can imagine the world described in the book, to the point where I read and immediately visualize, I still know I'm reading, but I can see what is being described and done it that book.
Is that the same that I should be doing? Without the reading ofc, but doing it in my mind, and adding feelings and smells and sounds into it while lying in my bed? I think it does, so I'm gonna try it.

Anyway, thanks a lot for writing this up!


~Osaka


P.S. Does anyone know if taking anything before sleeping help with VILDs at all? I have valerian thingies and several other natural sleeping products.

And I too am from 4chan :3 Info threads ftw...

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## Erii

wait I have a question,in the part where you said you switch into the dreaming state, I was kind of confused....after you feel like you're in more control and you want to run , are you in a dream? did that just happen while visualization?

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## Mathias

Gosh, you type with such a serene sense of stability. I like you  ::D:  Thanks for this guide! I love to visualize things, especially when I'm reading novels and what not, so this will definitely be a good method for me to try out. I'll let you know the results if I get them! Also, you said that the best time is after you wake up. What if I wake up in the morning and the sun is shining in my room and all that? Is it necessary to buy a face mask thing?

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## NrElAx

This works very well because I did it this morning  :smiley:  although I did it on my own, not from reading this. But now I will try this more often.

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## vmenge

Thanks that worked.... I don’t think this would work.
I hate you and I slept with your mom last night. And your dad too.

 ::lol:: 
seriously though, this topic is pure awesomeness, going to try it right now. I love how you can realize you're already in a real dream when things start acting up on their own (like the thugs).
Well, I'll try posting my results later, good luck for me!

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## zrifter

:Shades wink: 
I did it the next sleep(2nd actually) after i read this.

Though I have some minor problems but I forgot what they are  ::D:  
I'll just go the same way as the last time i try this
Thanks for the tut!

Regards, Zrifter

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## Recidul

This is brilliant. I actually got two WILDs with this last night (or actually I woke up from the first WILD I got with this, fell asleep into a different dream and remembered almost immediately that I'm dreaming, so I'm not 100% if you can call it a WILD). I'm going now to write it in my DJ. I also didn't follow the instructions precisely.

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## slashsslayer97

when do we actually try this
like while we are trying to sleep or what?

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## WaterDreamer

Thanks so much for this!  I've recently started experimenting with some visualization exercises, so reading this now was good timing for me.  I'm very excited to start doing this!

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## faceonmars

My theory of lucid dreaming is based on the scientific fact that the big human brain transitions from Alpha (relaxed) to Theta (daydream) to Delta (deep sleep) brainwave patterns. REM sleep occurs near the beginning of Delta sleep and reoccurs through the night in transitional areas of this brainwave state (as we first go into, then come out of Delta) Therefore, I believe that the Theta state (that comfy daydreamy feeling you get right before slipping off to sleep) and REM sleep are inherently tied together and sometimes overlap... and when THAT happens LD's can occur. By visualizing during Theta you are stimulating the secondary cortices in your brain. This is the same area that is active during dreaming.  For me visualizing is the only way to force an LD. LD's do occasionally happen by accident but the easiest way to attain one is by simple visualization directly before sleep. No magical binaural beats, hypnotic music or herbs required  :wink2:

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## fatcatcog

Very interesting method! I found the hardest part was bringing it back together when it gets all messed up. I think its becasue my mind becomes less concious and brings up all sorts of random images. Will sustainability come with practise?

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## fatcatcog

> Work on it. I cant really teach visualization. If I were to write a 200 page book and you read it cover to cover, you would likely still be unable to conjure images out of thin air. But there are was you can try to build it up.



Here is a good way I heard of learning to visualize:
We will start by visualising a kitchen. First you need to completely clear your mind. Dont think about your kitchen, the gleaming surfaces, the deep black fridge, Dont think about how the cold bites into you as you open the freezer. There you go! You just visualised! :smiley:

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Has this been done by anyone? And successfully?

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## cutiepie0248

I tried this last night with no success. I was visualising successfully and everything was really stable and I had a storyline going and everything but I couldn't seem to transition into the dream state where I no longer completely controlled everything. I might try again tonight but I don't think I'll have much success if I can't make the transition. Can anybody give me any tips?

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## Spyguy

Without huge imagination, this can be done. I once did it by accident. It was a very short LOD cuz i didn't do the stabilization right (my own fault, I know  :tongue2: ). It was pretty damn vivid though. When I do this, I can see the picture I'm creating, but it's sort of 'behind' the darkness of the back of my eyelids. Is that normal? When I did this by accident it started like that too, and then it suddenly switched from behind the darkness to in front of the darkness.

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## bengarmon

wow lots of pages.... anyways what is your minds eye?

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## Spyguy

One question:

You say that the best time to do this is right after you wake up from a dream. But by doing so, you won't be able to write down the dream you just had. That will affect your dream recall. Isn't that a problem?

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## LonelyTurtle

> wow lots of pages.... anyways what is your minds eye?



Close your eyes. Picture a glass of orange juice sitting on your table in the middle of the day, sun filtering through the window onto the table. The orange juice looks mouthwatering, it sparkles in the light; perspiration dripping down the side. With your eyes closed you can still visualize this vividly, almost as if its infront of you. You`re not seeing with this your eyes are you, they are closed. This is your minds eye.

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## frenchblablabla

_I hate you and I slept with your mom last night.

Haha just kidding, this seems like a really good tutorial. 
If I had any time to do this when I woke up in the morning I would try.

Question though, do you think this would work with a WBTB if I set an alarm?_

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## NightSpy2

> I guess the best way to start out a thread like this is by stating the purpose. To try and teach you how to WILD in a short time frame and pretty much anywhere. But this is directed towards people who have had multiple lucids. People who know what a lucid is and how it feels. Keep that thought in mind. How a lucid feels.



Define "Multiple Lucids"
Ive had, like, 4.. Is that enough?

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## xRealityCheck

I hate you and I slept with your mom last night.
Nah just kidding you're awesome , and thanks for the tutorial. Very helpful  :smiley:

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## Laretta

A very useful induction method, I always have a place where I want to go in my dreams (my top goal is a tropical coast and sea at sunset, I really want to dive there <3).

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## LeNoob

> To turn the visualization into a dream, you have to go through the process of stabalization. Essentially, letting the dream solidify around you and become an actual dream. I've never had too much good information about this step since I do it automatically but one important point if your stance on things. The best one seems to be to look casually for interesting things and avoid the “I have no direction/need for direction”stance.
> 
> As for timing, I reccommend that time mainly on the fact that others say it works best for them. You should find and use a fime that you feel is most contributing to your visualization skills.



I'm a bit confused about getting into the dream also. Do we just lay there visualizing our scene till it surrounds us? Or are we supposed to start doing basic things like walking like you said?

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## Rybread34

I find it easier to start with touch and the sight usually comes with it.

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## LeNoob

> I find it easier to start with touch and the sight usually comes with it.



So basically just touch and look at stuff till you dream?

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## Fedor

if there is Hi then I will not attempt it?  Is there hi?

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## NobleDreams

::D:  Great tutorial.
 Something that worked for me once, was imagining sitting in a roller coaster, imagining the shifts of gravity among with the scenery and sensations. It's kindoff easier to forget you're still in bed  :smiley:

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## Qwer

This sounds like a good technique. Il try it tonight.
But I thought that in WILDs you have to almost fully loose concentration, just keeping a little so you stay conscious.
So wouldn't you be concentrating to much to fall asleep or start dreaming?

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## DinoSawr

> This sounds like a good technique. Il try it tonight.
> But I thought that in WILDs you have to almost fully loose concentration, just keeping a little so you stay conscious.
> So wouldn't you be concentrating to much to fall asleep or start dreaming?



I'm no expert, but it seems to me that because you aren't concentrating on your physical body it should be okay. I think the purpose is to start feeling your dream body and forget that you are really lying in bed.

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## InsanityAtBest

Im already a pro at visualizing so this method sounds great for me. Il try it as soon as I can!

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## spacebaba

This was a great reread, much clarity to my visualizing  :smiley:  Attempt it during WBTB

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## benzoe590

The thing I'm having trouble with is feeling, smelling, tasting... I can visualize image and sound really easily. I also haven't tried the actual thing yet, just trying stuff out with the senses. I'll try this tonight  :smiley:

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## blankrofl

I tried this last night, lost consciousness because I was so tired, will try again tonight.

I had an idea for this, what if you, during the waking day, make your own "Dream sign", as in, an item that you do a reality check when you see, or an item that makes you think "I'm dreaming" when you see it.

Then when you visualize your dream using VILD, you literally surround yourself with this dream sign item. That way even if you fall asleep, you see this item in your dream, and have a DILD.

Could that work? Or would your mind change the dream quickly because of the artificial Dream sign you made.


EX: You do an RC and think if you're dreaming everytime you see a coffee cup. In your VILD visualization, you sit at a desk covered in coffee cups. That way even if you fall asleep you see the coffee cups in your dream and have a DILD. That's what I mean.

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## Mancon

> I tried this last night, lost consciousness because I was so tired, will try again tonight.
> 
> I had an idea for this, what if you, during the waking day, make your own "Dream sign", as in, an item that you do a reality check when you see, or an item that makes you think "I'm dreaming" when you see it.
> 
> Then when you visualize your dream using VILD, you literally surround yourself with this dream sign item. That way even if you fall asleep, you see this item in your dream, and have a DILD.
> 
> Could that work? Or would your mind change the dream quickly because of the artificial Dream sign you made.
> 
> 
> EX: You do an RC and think if you're dreaming everytime you see a coffee cup. In your VILD visualization, you sit at a desk covered in coffee cups. That way even if you fall asleep you see the coffee cups in your dream and have a DILD. That's what I mean.



Yeah, that would most likely work! It would probably take a few days/weeks for the artificial dream sign to set in but once it did...awesome! There is always the chance that you won't be in the dream you visualized but it is worth a try!  :smiley:  Good luck

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## Elaol

This sounds awesome! I am not really good at visualization, but I am awesome at recreating sounds and tactile sensations, so I think I'll manage this. I am doing DEILD for quite some time without success, so I was thinking I will try to combine it with DEILD, since I can wake up without moving, but I'm having trouble with transition. Do you think it is a good idea?

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## ahmedoy

When i tried your method , it gave me some pretty good results. I got 2 types of dreams , lucid ones and non lucid ones . The lucid ones were very unclear , but i  could talk with dream characters , also i was still in control of my body , i could see the dream very hazily but i was still in my body and not in the dream , and shortly i return to seeing nothing , then i find myself again somehow in side of the dream but still in my body . Shortly after that i slip into non lucid dreams , very short ones too , but they are very vivid .  

What i mean is that your method works pretty well , but how can i change those unstable "visions"  , they are very weird , i can talk with dream characters and sometimes i can see things but at the same time i see the darkness of my EYElids .

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