# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  healthly dose melatonin B6

## Tiler19

Anyone know a healthly doseage of melatonin and B6 and if it should be used daily?

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## AvatarOfDeception

I've done a lot of research on both of those and you can take as much melatonin as you want. Although only three mg should put you out, you can take 3000 with no side effects

As for B6: I'm not sure. Some places say that 2g a day is risky and then other places say that 2g a month is risky. Sites I've been to recommend 25mg-500mg a day... although after looking into it a bit more, I concluded that 150mg a day is moderately safe... although I only take 100.

I hope that helps


   ~Lance

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## Tiler19

okay thanks man.  IVE BEEN  only takin 50mg of B6 i because i wasent really sure if that much was safe.  how many mg make up a gram? 1000?

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## dest

> _Originally posted by Tiler19_
> *okay thanks man.  IVE BEEN  only takin 50mg of B6 i because i wasent really sure if that much was safe.  how many mg make up a gram? 1000?*



yes  :wink2:

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## Seeker

3000 mg!!!! That sounds a little extreme!

Keep it down to 3-6mg(melatonin) and 50mg (b6) twice a week.  Higher dosages are counter-productive.  Your body DOES become used to this stuff.

I've noticed that after only a week of every-night use that 3mg no longer has an effect on me.

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## dest

> _Originally posted by Seeker_
> *3000 mg!!!! That sounds a little extreme!
> 
> Keep it down to 3-6mg(melatonin) and 50mg (b6) twice a week.  Higher dosages are counter-productive.  Your body DOES become used to this stuff.
> 
> I've noticed that after only a week of every-night use that 3mg no longer has an effect on me.*



and if you use it twice a week, you still have an effect ?

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## Blissful

I just discovered B6 helps LD's (thanks Ev).  I checked my cabinet and discovered I have some B6, however I got it because my doctor said that I needed to take 1 pill (don't know how many mg) and a calcium pill and I forgot the other one, every day to combat PMS (I was having it bad for a while, and it was due to lots of things, stress, bad eating habits, so on).

So, taking B6 everyday was prescribed by my doctor to balance me out.  I NEVER thought in a million years it would help LD's.  

Anyone know exactly why?

Blissful

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## Tiler19

is 100mg of b6 one night ok?

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## AvatarOfDeception

> So, taking B6 everyday was prescribed by my doctor to balance me out. I NEVER thought in a million years it would help LD's.
> 
> Anyone know exactly why? [/b]



Dreams are caused by nerve impules from the top of your spine (or so) to the frontal lobe of your brain. B6 boosts you entire nervous system (among other things). so, when you take B6 before you sleep, the nerve impulses that turn into dreams are stronger and the nerves that carry those impules are healthier as well.

I think that's it

and yes, 100mg a night is fine as long as you're, say, 15 or older, Any younger has a very small chance of causing nerve damage


   ~Lance

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## djaio

> _Originally posted by AvatarOfDeception_
> *I've done a lot of research on both of those and you can take as much melatonin as you want. Although only three mg should put you out, you can take 3000 with no side effects
> *



Uh, I wouldn't say that. 3000mg of melatonin would probably knock you out for a week or two. Or three.

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## AvatarOfDeception

melatonin is a hormone released from part of the brain called the pihneal gland which activates when it's dark; it makes you feel tired is all. It's a natural chemical that forms in your body and there's no known level of toxicity. Melatonin isn't a drug that induces a false tiredness like valium


edit: http://www.melatonin.com/melatonin-faq.htm#SIDE

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## Boof

i found a pack of pills in my medicine cupboard. it says one pill has 15 mg of b6 in it. does 15 mg has any effect? and b6 is not the only vitamine in a pill, there is also b1, b2, b12 and some other stuff... do you think i can take it without any risks?

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## Placebo

> _Originally posted by AvatarOfDeception_
> *melatonin is a hormone released from part of the brain called the pihneal gland which activates when it's dark; it makes you feel tired is all. It's a natural chemical that forms in your body and there's no known level of toxicity. Melatonin isn't a drug that induces a false tiredness like valium
> 
> 
> edit:http://www.melatonin.com/melatonin-faq.htm#SIDE*



Yeah, but 3000mg will definitely make you groggy in the mornings.
Rule of thumb: If you don't wake up refreshed, you're taking too much, and its still in your system the next morning.
Its not serious, because your body is pretty good at shedding itself of it in the mornings. Drink coffee  :wink2:

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## lurker

pretty much all vitamins execpt for A, and D are water souluble (i don't remember how to spell the word)  meaning they dissovle in water.  what does this mean to us?  what ever the body doesn't need, the body will pee it out.  chances of vitamin B doing any damage to you, is pretty much zero.  especially in a pill form, why would anybody create/pkg/sell a dosage that is toxic to begin with?  in a nutshell, vitamin b (and the rest of complex) are safe to take daily.  the only side affect is that your urine will turn yellow.  but not the dehadrated, brownish yellow.  sometimes you will notice an odd odor.  but the vitamins stink too.  it's ok.

p.s. vitamins A and D don't dissolve in water, so they can accumulate in the body.  that's why it's bad to take to much A and/or D -toxicity, it's also bad to be diffecient too. (-duhhh ;p)

my dad is/was a pharmacist, he knows about these kind of things.  so far, i'm still alive.  :)

i would recommend mate, instead of coffee.  it's good stuff. has vitamins, helps get you going in the morning, and it won't ruin your digestive track and kidneys like coffee will.  mate is an argentinian tea.  (accent over the "e")

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## McGoo

I am definitely going to try this.

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## Placebo

[quote] chances of vitamin B doing any damage to you, is pretty much zero.  quote]
I don't question your background, but I read up a lot on B6 before I started using it.
And apparently large dosages over time can seriously impact your nervous system response in your legs and arms.
This is according to research done, that is.

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## lurker

[quote]



> chances of vitamin B doing any damage to you, is pretty much zero.  quote]
> I don't question your background, but I read up a lot on B6 before I started using it.
> And apparently large dosages over time can seriously impact your nervous system response in your legs and arms.
> This is according to research done, that is.



i belive you.  it's kinda like alcohol.  i'm saying one glass of wine a day won't do anything.  and your saying pounding it will catch up to you. ;)

what is considered a large dose?

here are the stats on my vitamins:

company: nature made
product: super b-complex (w/vitamin c)

amount per tablet %daily value

vitamin c  150mg   250%
thiamin     100mg   6667%
riboflavin  20mg     1176%
niacin       25mg     125%
b6            2mg       100%
folic acid   400mcg  100%
b12          15mcg    250%
biotin        30mcg    10%
pantothnic 5.5mg    55%
acid

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## lurker

wow, good thing i didn't ask you where did you learn how to quote... ;p

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## O'nus

> _Originally posted by AvatarOfDeception_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				So, taking B6 everyday was prescribed by my doctor to balance me out. I NEVER thought in a million years it would help LD's.
> 
> ...



Just thought I'd note here that 100mg is typically how much *an entire bottle* of vitamin b6 contains.

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## Placebo

> _Originally posted by lurker_
> *wow, good thing i didn't ask you where did you learn how to quote... ;p*



Harhar... sorry about that  :wink2:

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## clarkkent

Does anyone know whether for lucid dreaming the form of B6 with the active co-enzyme P5P (Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate) is better than the non-active one?

I tried to buy B6 vits and the one I found had P5P I discovered after I left the store. It says it will be more effective. I hope so!

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## Mystical_Journey

[size=24]Your all a bunch of Vitamin Junkies

You all need to sort out your lifes and sign into a drug rehabilitation clinic and get clean

 :wink2:

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## clarkkent

Nice one... I will assume you are joking even if you aren't. Some of us don't take massive amounts of vitamins and some us take vitamins because of diets we are on ( it is recommended in that case! and if it helps with dreaming, even better).

Edit: Saw your smilie just now..  I should have checked before replying...
 :wink2:

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## Simonster

I can say both good things and bad things about B6.

One night a couple of weeks ago, I took 450 mg of B6 along with 900 mg of Valerian Root Extract and went to sleep. I hadn't had an LD in a long time (months, maybe).

About 3 hours later, I woke up. I felt incredibly awake; I never feel that awake in the mornings, or pretty much any time of the day. I kinda started freaking out. The only reference point I can offer is 2C-I (a psychedelic phenethylamine) devoid of the psychedelic component. It took me about 30 minutes to get back to sleep, but I did.

About 3 hours later, I found myself in my bed, but my sense of touch felt all screwy. I got up, and I recognized the situation: I was dreaming. I was still scared that the B6 had really fucked me up, so I ended up waking up for real. If I had known waht to expect, I think I could've stayed asleep. It was my first LD in a long time.

The next day I may have had a heightened sense of touch, or I may just have been paying too much attention to my sense of touch. Anyway, I'm definitely normal now.

So yes, megadose B6 is bad, and yes, megadose B6 is a useful tool. Like anything, use carefully, and in moderation.

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## tryured

Vitamins A D E and K are all fat soluable have to much of them and they bank up in yuor adipose tissue (fat). Thats why people who eat heaps of carrots skin turn yellow, too much vitamin A.

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## Leo Volont

Whoa!

Balance your B Vitamins or the excess B6 will keep you from metabolizing and assimulating the other necessary B Vitamins.  Screw with melatonin all you want but if you throw your Vitamin B balance off you could push yourself into psychosis -- paranoid delusions... you could even end up catatonic.  Your whole life might become a dream -- a nightmare.

People don't remember how important B Vitamins are.  Back in the Thirties people's diets were hit and miss about B vitamins.  And there was the malnutrition brought on by Capitalism's one large milestone, The Depression.  No one understood why but the insane assylums were filling up.  Then, quite by accident, a new Corporate Bakery fielded a contract to supply a consortium of states with 'enriched bread' for use in all institutional kitchens and cafeterias.  Almost over night, in 10 states, there was a spontaneous remission in the symptoms of insanity in almost one half of the patients.  The Freudian and the Jungian Psychiatrists tried to claim credit for their innovative therapies, which essentially was just talk talk talk.  But it was the Bread. the B Vitamins specifically.  

Many of the Visions that Religious Fasting accounts for can also ultimately be traced to deficiencies and imbalances in the B Vitamins.  

It may be an acceptable trade off.... to stop eating or to block the B Vitamins so that one might have a Huge Vision -- a Psychotic Delusion, really.  But one only has to look at the Literature of the Saints, or any Psychology Book to know that the Manic Delusions of Grandeur -- the Angelic Visions, are mixed in a deeper and more lingering context of Demonic delusions and paranoid succeptabilities.

My advice is to eat right, stay healthy, and see God when you're dead.

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## Raylin

I'm not certain about the dangers of melatonin, but I remember reading that it could be dangerous for children, teenagers, and pregnant women. The closest information I could find on this was the following quote:





> \"Use of melatonin by persons who already have an abundant supply of melatonin from their bodies, such as children, teenagers, and pregnant and lactating women can lead to overdose of melatonin.\"[/b]

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## gdhokie

Can B12 work just as well or any other vitamin?

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## dreamtamer007

I dont know if it helps LDing but I studied nutrition years ago and you should take a complex or a b complex. Most heath food stores will sell good multiple vitamins with the Bs in proportion to the ratio of each other found in nature. If I remember its something like
b1 10mg
b2 10mg
b3 100mg
b6 10mg
B12 100 micrograms
And many more
They try to keep it close to how its balanced in nature.
Its ok to take a little extra of one of the vitamins but it is usually done to counteract a deficiency. If you take a lot over a period of time it can be counter productive to the other vitamins. If your going to use higher doses of one you could ask most health store owners. Mine said he takes a 100 o 200 of b6 because a has a problem that calls for it. I take a complex with about 25 mg of most Bs and an extra 100 of b6 on occasion. I have a problem with sleeping pills at the time so I can't tell you if it helps in dreams but do know that B complex is generally good for your nerves.

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## Villain_S_Deeds

> _Originally posted by Tiler19_
> *okay thanks man. *IVE BEEN *only takin 50mg of B6 i because i wasent really sure if that much was safe. *how many mg make up a gram? 1000?*



I can't believe you guys still haven't switched to metric!

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## Awhislyle

is 26mg enough to get some type of an effect?
of B6 that is

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## SKA

I don't think that taking things such as B6 and Melatonin should be taken regulairly at all.
I am quite an Insomniac myself and the docter has prescribed me bottles of Melatonin pills. 3MG each. At first it really worked great to get me drowsy and sleepy enough.A year or 2 later they seemed to have lost their effect and only made my body lazy to produce Melatonin itself and dependent on an artificial 3mg dose of melatonin.

BTW This on the short termmight therefor be terrible for lucid dreaming: you become drowsy and out of focus...the way the natural sleeping cycle would make you drowsy too but adding 3mg of sleeping hormone to your system, especially  when you take it regulairly, might severely de-stabelise your biological clock and natural sleep stages. Which will result in 0 dream recall. You will not be clearminded enough to WILD or have any lucid Dreams or Dream Recall at all.

So now I take Melatonin only sometimes to minimalise physical dependance and increase it's effects when I DO take it. Same for Vitamin B6 which I also take sometimes to see if it might influence my dream recall. 

One night I took 1 50MG Vitamin B6 pill and 1 3MG Melatonin pill and went to sleep at about 21:00: (unusually early for me. I usually go to bed at 3 o'clock) To my surprise I remembered a short bit of my dream after having had 3 months of zero dream recall. BUT that could have been coincidence or due to the early bedtime, so I'm going to try that again tonight. this time with a higher dose of Melatonine

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## Wuollet

There's one thing i havent figured out, in this question. Is it the B6 you want or is it the Melatonin?
wich one of these helps you with LD?

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## LaGrange123

Hey, do you guys think it really matters that my only bottle of melatonin is supposed to start losing potency by 2001?  Is that date accurate? Or is it more just like a disclaimer, protecting against the worst of all possible scenarios?

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## DigitalNinjaLee

to my experience, i have taken 200mg of B6 along with foods containing Tryptophan (banana, chocolate, Chedder Cheese, peanuts) and the only successful time i have had with that was the first night.  I didn't have any lucid dreams, but i had VERY vivid dreams.  Taking it now, it really has no effect on me.  Or it seems so.  I first night i took it, i can agree with the person above, i became very paranoid about everything.  I didn't know if things were a dream or not.  Since then, the only time that has happened again was when i actually took 400mg of B6 and thought something was following me up the stairs.  And everytime i have taken B6 was with Tryptophan-high foods, which is the main thing that is supposed to work with it.  I'm trying again tonight, i'll see what happens.  (note, the three lucid dreams i have had were not using B6)

In fact, to be specific, i am going to eat a banana, chedder cheese, and some peanuts and going to take both B6 and Choline to see what happens.

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## tyrantt23

> Hey, do you guys think it really matters that my only bottle of melatonin is supposed to start losing potency by 2001?  Is that date accurate? Or is it more just like a disclaimer, protecting against the worst of all possible scenarios?



Well, considering 2001 was 7 years ago, I think it's pretty safe to say that the melatonin in that bottle has lost a lot of its potency. It might still have some effect, but we can't know how much of an effect, and how much melatonin would actually work. Therefore, even if you try to take more than one pill, it would be hard for you to know if you're taking too much or too little.
I would say just go to the store and buy a new bottle. They're not expensive, and it's really nice to have around for one of those nights you either can't sleep or are trying to do everything right to have a lucid dream.  :smiley:

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## DigitalNinjaLee

update, last night i did everything stated above.  400mg of B-6 and 500mg of Choline...no Lucid Dream.  I did have dream recall, but nothing special.  Like any other dream i would remember.  I really don't know what will work for me, so i am trying Melatonin next.

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## tyrantt23

> update, last night i did everything stated above.  400mg of B-6 and 500mg of Choline...no Lucid Dream.  I did have dream recall, but nothing special.  Like any other dream i would remember.  I really don't know what will work for me, so i am trying Melatonin next.



That's a pretty large dose of B-6 (20,000&#37; Daily Value). Try not to do that dosage on a regular basis. I have read in many places that it's good to stay at 50mg, and the highest I've taken I think was 150mg with pretty impressive results.

Anyway, I would think doing 400mg once in a while won't hurt you, but here's a quote of something that I have read in many places as well:




> And apparently large dosages (of B-6) over time can seriously impact your nervous system response in your legs and arms.
> This is according to research done, that is.

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## DigitalNinjaLee

yea i know, i am not planning on taking that much anytime soon.

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## unnamednn

I took 3mg melatonin and 250 mg of B6 right before going to sleep and i couldn't fell asleep at all. I was in a very mind alert body relaxed almost asleep state.
   Does anyone know when i should take the B6 so it won't keep me awake but will still have the effect upon dreaming?

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## Lime Cat

I've been taking Melatonin for about a year now. I am 16 and my dosage is 20mg once daily. I hope that helps.

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## Quick Silver

I've heard alot about B-6 so far and mostly everyone looks like they get good results from it. But I have a few questions: Will B-6 be unhealthy at night if taken with other pills? 
2nd: can I learn Lucidity with this pill and then quit the pill and still be able to use lucidity? I'm still new to Lucidity and I haven't had one night yet. 
3rd: please tell me this won't have any kind of side affects. Is it primarily good for your body?

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## moe007

> 3000 mg!!!! That sounds a little extreme!
> 
> Keep it down to 3-6mg(melatonin) and 50mg (b6) twice a week.  Higher dosages are counter-productive.  Your body DOES become used to this stuff.
> 
> I've noticed that after only a week of every-night use that 3mg no longer has an effect on me.



I believe it is near impossible to take 3000mg of melatonin, it definitely wont kill you, but to my knowledge, it will offset your biological clock for quite some time, due to the super extreme amounts of melatonin. 

Oh and you dont get used to melatonin  :smiley:  .. Melatonin is naturally produced every single night. Infact, the second your iris senses sunset, it signals your brain to produce melatonin. Taking melatonin supplements will only disrupt your natural sleep cycle rhythm, by suppressing REM sleep. Also, oral melatonin has such an extremely short half life that it would be almost completely out of your system by the next time you take it; thus avoiding tolerance.





> okay thanks man.  IVE BEEN  only takin 50mg of B6 i because i wasent really sure if that much was safe.  how many mg make up a gram? 1000?



I would highly recommend *against*  using >500mg of vitamin B6, as over time it will definitely cause CNS damage and damage to your nerves/nerve-endings. Might cause numbness/tingling on single uses, that goes away with time.





> Just thought I'd note here that 100mg is typically how much *an entire bottle* of vitamin b6 contains.



Really? My one pill is 50mg, and the bottle has 100 pills.





> I can say both good things and bad things about B6.
> 
> One night a couple of weeks ago, I took 450 mg of B6 along with 900 mg of Valerian Root Extract and went to sleep. I hadn't had an LD in a long time (months, maybe).
> 
> About 3 hours later, I woke up. I felt incredibly awake; I never feel that awake in the mornings, or pretty much any time of the day. I kinda started freaking out. The only reference point I can offer is 2C-I (a psychedelic phenethylamine) devoid of the psychedelic component. It took me about 30 minutes to get back to sleep, but I did.
> 
> About 3 hours later, I found myself in my bed, but my sense of touch felt all screwy. I got up, and I recognized the situation: I was dreaming. I was still scared that the B6 had really fucked me up, so I ended up waking up for real. If I had known waht to expect, I think I could've stayed asleep. It was my first LD in a long time.
> 
> The next day I may have had a heightened sense of touch, or I may just have been paying too much attention to my sense of touch. Anyway, I'm definitely normal now.
> ...



Again, I do not recommend you take doses of vitamin b6 in excess of 500mg at a time, and with that.. taking into consideration that you are a healthy adult. 

Also, do not take vitamin B6 before bed time, it is most useful when taken *after* 4-5 hours of sleep, in conjunction with WBTB. Vitamin B6 is a stimulant, and taking it before sleep will ruin the quality of sleep you get throughout the night, it also could keep you up. 

The effects you experienced are typical of vitamin B6 overdose. The weird sensations, and altered perception/senses are the result of sensory neuropathy. Since vitamin B6 is a water soluble vitamin, as somebody else has previously mentioned; yes, you will urinate the excess b6... but only after your body metabolized the dose (however large).. meaning that it has to be digested, gone through your blood, to your brain, and finally filtered through the kidneys and urinated.

Dont take absurdly high doses of anything unless you are certain about what you are doing, ordered by a physician, or have complete disregard for the ramifications of drug/supplement toxicity.





> That's a pretty large dose of B-6 (20,000&#37; Daily Value). Try not to do that dosage on a regular basis. I have read in many places that it's good to stay at 50mg, and the highest I've taken I think was 150mg with pretty impressive results.



Considering the Daily Value percentage for vitamin b6 is measured in nanograms, that's expected. When taken as a supplement, it is going to well surpass what is obtained through food.





> I've been taking Melatonin for about a year now. I am 16 and my dosage is 20mg once daily. I hope that helps.



I would sincerely advise you not to do that. First of all, 20mg is quite a large dose.. studies have shown that .33mg produces sleep-inducing effects. Secondly, "for about a year" leads me to be concerned; taking it every night will create a psychological effect that prevents you from falling sleep without taking your melatonin --thus sleep-aid dependency, which is far from what you want to have.

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## O'nus

> Really? My one pill is 50mg, and the bottle has 100 pills.



If you would kindly read what you quoted, I said "typically".

Would you like my references for bottles and their weight amounts?  If you want to be that pedantic, I can source this for you.

~

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## moe007

> If you would kindly read what you quoted, I said "typically".
> 
> Would you like my references for bottles and their weight amounts?  If you want to be that pedantic, I can source this for you.
> 
> ~



Id rather you not. Regardless, my apologies.

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## LightningMunk

oops posted in  wrong section of forum, was supposed to reply to this thread, idk how it got messed up...anyways heres post: 

I found this site about vitamin B6
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...rient&dbid=108

And I quote near the bottom:

Quote:
What are toxicity symptoms for vitamin B6?

Imbalances in nervous system activity have been shown to result from high levels of supplemental vitamin B6 intake. These imbalances do not seem to occur until supplementation exceeds 2 grams per day. The National Academy of Sciences has set a Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for vitamin B6 of 100 milligrams for adults 19 years and older, largely based on the issue of imbalanced nervous system activity described above.
and i am over 19, so i guess it means only 100 mg a day, and that 2,000 milligrams is when u notice those imbalances, so i think if you are wanting to try vitamin b6, i would say just take the 100 mg pill, and maybe like a glass of apple juice and a banana before you go to sleep, and see that works

...just my guess cuz i really wanted to try b6 but i was afraid of toxicity levels and having it mess up my body. but looks good with what they said  any comments?

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## Quick Silver

B-6 sounds pretty reliable. However, if I take it, can I still use the "WAKE UP YA IDIOT!!" method that I use to get out of nightmares and become conscious again? I look up and yell "WAKE UP!!"; I've used it since day 1, and have used it everytime a bad dream has a grip on me, or is about to.

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## malina

Hello,
         Great i loved your answer, oh and for the person who  on  vitamin b6 your wrong. one of my friends works for sobeys and he says that it doesnt have it on the ingredient lable but it does have it in the juice itself. 
THank you very much.

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