# Off-Topic Discussion > Extended Discussion >  >  December 21st, 2012 Museum of Art/Information

## Jeff777

*This thread is filled with awareness raising images/information that you might consider having a look at.*
*COMPLIMENTARY_NOTE:* Allow this to play in the background as you scroll through the museum of 2012Please stand by...for a rude awakening.


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Eye of Horus, the Egyptian Sun God


...don't recognize the eye?  I'll give you a hint, You can spot it's symbol smacked on an egyptian pyramid right behind the head of America's first President.  That symbol also happens to be woven into a tapestry hung in the vatican.  Truth is stranger than fiction.

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" Dec. 21, 2006: Evidence is mounting: the next solar cycle is going to be a big one. Solar cycle 24, due to peak in 2010 or 2011 "looks like its going to be one of the most intense cycles since record-keeping began almost 400 years ago," says solar physicist David Hathaway" -NASA


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_(The image below was taken Aug. 11, 1999 in England at exactly 11:11 a.m. GMT, showing the Sun in full corona.)_



"The Mayans prophesied that from 1999 we have 13 years to realize the changes in our conscious attitude, to stray from the path of self-destruction and instead move onto a path that opens our consciousness to integrate us with all that exists.......The Mayans say that seven years after the start of Kat..n, so 1999, we would enter a time of darkness which would force us to confront our own conduct. The say that this is the time when mankind will enter 'The Sacred Hall of Mirrors', where we will look at ourselves and analyze our behaviors with ourselves, with others, with nature and with the planet in which we live. This will be a time in which all of humanity, by individual conscious decisions, decides to change and eliminate fear and lack of respect from all of our relationships. *The Mayans prophesied that the start of this period would be marked by a solar eclipse on August 11, 1999*, known to them as 13 Ahau, 8 Cauac. This also would coincide with an unprecedented planetary alignment, the 'Grand Cross' alignment. This would be the beginning of the last 13 years of the Kat..n period, the last opportunity for our civilization to realize the changes that are coming at the moment of our spiritual regeneration."



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Countdown to
December 21 2012, *11:11* A.M. GMT


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_(Mayan Cropcircle)_







Could this be you on 2012?




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_(The photos below were taken by a man named Masaru Emoto, they exhibit before and after high def shots of water molecules, not snowflakes, jewelry or glass carvings...frozen water molecules  The captions below the pictures show what thoughts/feelings Emoto was projecting before he froze the water molecules.)_




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_This exaggerated picture...might not be too far from the truth.  Question is...will you stand up for what you know is right?  Or continue to allow your rights to be stripped from you and allow a possible chip to be sown into your arm?  Btw...the saying "It's for your own protection" doesn't hold much weight anymore._


Think it won't/can't happen to you?  Click here.



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Excerpts from
Steep Uphill Climb to 2012:
Messages from the Mayan Milieu
&#169; Copyright 2002 by Steven McFadden:

"Carlos Barrios was born into a Spanish family on El Altiplano, the highlands of Guatemala. His home was in Huehuetenango, also the dwelling place of the Maya Mam tribe. With other Maya and other indigenous tradition keepers, the Mam carry part of the old ways on Turtle Island (North America). They are keepers of time, authorities on remarkable calendars that are ancient, elegant and relevant. Mr. Barrios is a historian, an anthropologist and investigator. After studying with traditional elders for 25 years since the age of 19, he has also become a Mayan Ajq'ij, a ceremonial priest and spiritual guide, Eagle Clan. Years ago, along with his brother, Gerardo, Carlos initiated an investigation into the different Mayan calendars. He studied with many teachers. He says his brother Gerardo interviewed nearly 600 traditional Mayan elders to widen their scope of knowledge. Carlos Barrios shares:

"The world will not end. It will be transformed... Everything will change...Change is accelerating now, and it will continue to accelerate...If the people of the earth can get to this 2012 date in good shape, without having destroyed too much of the Earth, we will rise to a new, higher level. But to get there we must transform enormously powerful forces that seek to block the way...Humanity will continue, but in a different way. Material structures will change. From this we will have the opportunity to be more human...

"Our planet can be renewed or ravaged. Now is the time to awaken and take action...The prophesized changes are going to happen, but our attitude and actions determine how harsh or mild they are. This is a crucially important moment for humanity and for earth. Each person is important. If you have incarnated into this era, you have spiritual work to do balancing the planet...The greatest wisdom is in simplicity. Love, respect, tolerance, sharing, gratitude, forgiveness. It's not complex or elaborate. The real knowledge is free. It's encoded in your DNA. All you need is within you. Great teachers have said that from the beginning. Find you heart, and you will find your way.

"The Mayan elder (Mam) who lives all year in a solitary mountain cave, journeyed to speak at the most recent Mayan New Year ceremony in Guatemala. He delivered a simple, direct message calling for human beings to come together in support of life and light. The elder said there is hope if the people of the light can come together and unite in some way...We need to put our entire mind and heart into pursuing unity and fusion now..."

For more theories, click here.

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*Ascension...*




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*THE HOW AND WHY OF THE MAYAN END DATE IN 2012 A.D.*

by *John Major Jenkins*
_(John Major Jenkins has done work for the Discovery Channel, and History Channel, to name a few)_

&#190; May 23rd, 1994

Originally published in the Dec-Jan '95 issue of Mountain Astrologer.

Why did the ancient Mayan or pre-Maya choose December 21st, 2012 A.D., as the end of their Long Count calendar? This article will cover some recent research. Scholars have known for decades that the 13-baktun cycle of the Mayan "Long Count" system of timekeeping was set to end precisely on a winter solstice, and that this system was put in place some 2300 years ago. This amazing fact - that ancient Mesoameri- can skywatchers were able to pinpoint a winter solstice far off into the future - has not been dealt with by Mayanists. And why did they choose the year 2012? One immediately gets the impression that there is a very strange mystery to be confronted here. I will be building upon a clue to this mystery reported by epigrapher Linda Schele in Maya Cosmos (1994). This article is the natural culmination of the research relating to the Mayan Long Count and the precession of the equinoxes that I explored in my recent book Tzolkin: Visionary Perspectives and Calendar Studies (Borderlands Science and Research Foundation, 1994). 



*How: Long Count and Seasonal Quarters*

Long Count katun beginnings will conjunct sequential seasonal quarters every 1.7.0.0.0 days (194400 days). This is an easily tracked Long Count interval. Starting with the katun beginning of 650 B.C.:

Long Count Which Quarter? Year

6.5.0.0.0 Fall 650 B.C.

7.12.0.0.0 Winter 118 B.C.

8.19.0.0.0 Spring 416 A.D.

10.6.0.0.0 Summer 948 A.D.

11.13.0.0.0 Fall 1480 A.D.

13.0.0.0.0 Winter 2012 A.D.

Note that the last date is not only a katun beginning, but a baktun beginning as well. It is, indeed, the end date of 2012.6

The Long Count may have been officially inaugurated on a specific date in 355 B.C., as Edmonson suggests, but it must have been formulated, tried, tested, and proven before this date. This may well have taken centuries, and the process no doubt paralleled (and was perhaps instigated by) the discovery of precession. The Long Count system automatically accounts for precession in its ability to calculate future seasonal quarters - a property which shouldn't be underestimated.

Summary

This has been my attempt to fill a vacuum in Mayan Studies, an answer to the why and how of the end date of the 13-baktun cycle of the Mayan Long Count. The solution requires a shift in how we think about the astronomy of the Long Count end date. The strange fact that it occurs on a winter solstice immediately points us to possible astronomical reasons, but they are not obvious. We also shouldn't forget the often mentioned fact that the 13-baktun cycle of some 5125 years is roughly 1/5th of a precessional cycle. This in itself should have been suggestive of a deeper mystery very early on. Only with the recent identification of the astronomical nature of the Sacred Tree has the puzzle revealed its fullness. And once again we are amazed at the sophistication and vision of the ancient New World astronomers, the decendants of whom still count the days and watch the skies in the remote outbacks of Guatemala.

For the entire article, click here.


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(This may happen in 2012 too – picture source: www.occultopedia.com)

If you are a Hindu or a Mayan, this should be good news…

According to an article by David Hedges titled *“Golden Age in 2012”*, the golden age is expected to start on 22nd December 2012. He said in his article:-

 In the Brahma-Vaivarta Purana, Lord Krishna tells Ganga Devi that there will be a Golden Age within the Kali-yuga that will start 5,000 years after the beginning of the Kali Yuga. The Golden Age will last for 10,000 years according to Lord Krishna. The Kali Yuga calendar began at midnight on 18 February 3102 B.C. according to many sources.

    The ancient Hindu’s mainly used lunar calendars but also used solar calendars. If an average lunar year equals 354.36 days, then this would be about 5270 lunar years from the time when the Kali Yuga started *until 21 Dec 2012*, the year that the Mayans predict rebirth of our planet; and it is also about 5113 solar years of 365.24 days per year.

David Hedges ended his post with the following statement:-

Now we have another ancient source, Hindu Scripture’s called the Brahma-Vaivarta Purana, predicting a new world about the same time that the Mayans predicted it to come! Historically, this is an amazing fact since these two ancient cultures *didn’t have any contact.*

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In an entry at Wikipedia on the year 2012, it was stated that in a book titled “The Bible Code”, a meteor, asteroid or comet will collide with the Earth and again in another book titled “The Nostradamus Code” where there will be a series of natural disasters caused by a comet. In another book titled “The Orion Prophecy” it was claimed that the Earth’s magnetic field will reverse. Plenty of natural disasters may cause the death of many people and towns causing humans to rebuild their lives again? Yes, it is possible.

*12/17/07 - End of Volume 1.*

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## iLight



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## Scatterbrain

> _(The photos below were taken by a man named Masaru Emoto, they exhibit before and after high def shots of water molecules, not snowflakes, jewelry or glass carvings...frozen water molecules  The captions below the pictures show what thoughts/feelings Emoto was projecting before he froze the water molecules.)_



Those definitely aren't photos of water molecules.  ::rolllaugh::

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## Jeff777

> Those definitely aren't photos of water molecules.



Plausible.  But I suggest you weigh both sides of the scale.  Emoto  Btw, thanks for stopping by  :wink2:

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## Mystic7

no, water does do that when you think about it. Scatterbrain.

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## wasup

The whole water thing is a joke... right?  :Confused:

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## Chasing Quètzalcoatl

what do water molecules have to do w/2012???

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## LucidFlanders

Has the mayans ever been wrong with their consciousness thing?

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## Jeff777

> Has the mayans ever been wrong with their consciousness thing?



Their sophisticated calendar has never erred, if that's what your asking.

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## italianmonkey

> Those definitely aren't photos of water molecules.



 
what scatter means is that those are water crystals, not molecules
like, snowflakes....

was it that?

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## Mystic7

The water experiment is proven. So no point laughing the joke is that people don't already understand proper science.

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## wasup

> The water experiment is proven. So no point laughing the joke is that people don't already understand proper science.



Err, no it wasn't.  Experiments are replicable, that is the whole point of them.  As this one is _not_.

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## Cyclic13

All in all nice presentation Jeff... nice to see you finally followed my advice about posting it in here. I would hardly call it senseless banter  :wink2: 

Not to be a bubble burster but I looked into that water crystal experiment a long time ago and found it wasn't done under scientific conditions. The person conducting it, Masaru Emoto, only took the pictures of the ones that fit his hypothesis and threw out the other ones. So even sympathetic commentators have criticized Emoto for insufficient experimental controls, and for not sharing enough details of his approach with the scientific community. In addition, Emoto has been criticized for designing his experiments in ways that leave them open to human error influencing his findings. James Randi, founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation, has publicly offered Emoto one million dollars if his results can be reproduced in a double-blind study. Randi has also stated that he does not expect to ever have to pay the million dollars. 

Sure, while it's a seemingly attractive idea, just taking a minute to think about how a water crystal could possibly understand the difference between 'arigatou' or 'baka', and 'thank you' or 'stupid' will leave you scratching your head. If some highly capable sentient beings can't understand or differentiate between languages I highly doubt a water crystal holds a higher sense of being able to pick up on the intentions of words. If it really were only about the intention going into the writing, you could technically write gibberish on a piece of paper with hatred or love in your heart and it would have the same affect as the words themselves. I honestly went in half believing it, but was unfortunately let down by the lack of integrity of the guy conducting it. No offense to those hopeful folks.

Back on topic, check these out if you have the time...
Adrian Gilbert on Coast to Coast about 2012 Pt.1; Pt. 2; Pt. 3; Pt. 4; Pt. 5; Pt. 6; Pt. 7; Pt. 8; Pt. 9; Pt. 10

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## wendylove

conspiracy theories are funny, the world is going to end in 2000. I think it is 7 years too late. And now we have 2012.

Soon we will have 2020. Sorry the world is not going to end. Also, the illuminati was destroyed ages ago, it only because of a fictional book that the conspricy became popular again. I guess if your paranoid then you have a new hobby, exposing the illuminati.

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## Grod

This is great reading through....

Thanks Jeff.  ::goodjob::

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## Jeff777

> conspiracy theories are funny, the world is going to end in 2000. I think it is 7 years too late. And now we have 2012.
> 
> Soon we will have 2020. Sorry the world is not going to end. Also, the illuminati was destroyed ages ago, it only because of a fictional book that the conspricy became popular again. I guess if your paranoid then you have a new hobby, exposing the illuminati.



I appreciate you stopping by wendylove, but your ignorance regarding 2012 is dumbfounding.  It clearly shows you've read nothing of substantial value to know what the subject topic is about; this is evident in your comparison to 2000 and 2012, your claims about the destruction of the illuminati, and your claiming I implied the world would end.  2000 was about a man-made Y2K bug, I don't recall anyone saying the world would end that year (at least noone sober).  Read a few of the materials I posted in the links above or do some research on the net for yourself, then you're opinions would be a bit more well received.






> All in all nice presentation Jeff... nice to see you finally followed my advice about posting it in here. I would hardly call it senseless banter 
> 
> Not to be a bubble burster but I looked into that water crystal experiment a long time ago and found it wasn't done under scientific conditions. The person conducting it, Masaru Emoto, only took the pictures of the ones that fit his hypothesis and threw out the other ones. So even sympathetic commentators have criticized Emoto for insufficient experimental controls, and for not sharing enough details of his approach with the scientific community. In addition, Emoto has been criticized for designing his experiments in ways that leave them open to human error influencing his findings. James Randi, founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation, has publicly offered Emoto one million dollars if his results can be reproduced in a double-blind study. Randi has also stated that he does not expect to ever have to pay the million dollars. 
> 
> Sure, while it's a seemingly attractive idea, just taking a minute to think about how a water crystal could possibly understand the difference between 'arigatou' or 'baka', and 'thank you' or 'stupid' will leave you scratching your head. If some highly capable sentient beings can't understand or differentiate between languages I highly doubt a water crystal holds a higher sense of being able to pick up on the intentions of words. If it really were only about the intention going into the writing, you could technically write gibberish on a piece of paper with hatred or love in your heart and it would have the same affect as the words themselves. I honestly went in half believing it, but was unfortunately let down by the lack of integrity of the guy conducting it. No offense to those hopeful folks.
> 
> Back on topic, check these out if you have the time...
> Adrian Gilbert on Coast to Coast about 2012 Pt.1; Pt. 2; Pt. 3; Pt. 4; Pt. 5; Pt. 6; Pt. 7; Pt. 8; Pt. 9; Pt. 10



Thanks for the input Solskye  :smiley: , Nice linkage  ::o: , I'll check that out asap.

And for those who are asking about the water experiment and Emoto...to *my* knowledge, the experiment has not been successfully replicated.

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## LucidFlanders

> I appreciate you stopping by wendylove, but your ignorance regarding 2012 is dumbfounding.  It clearly shows you've read nothing of substantial value to know what the subject topic is about; this is evident in your comparison to 2000 and 2012, your claims about the destruction of the illuminati, and your claiming I implied the world would end.  2000 was about a man-made Y2K bug, I don't recall anyone saying the world would end that year (at least noone sober).  Read a few of the materials I posted in the links above or do some research on the net for yourself, then you're opinions would be a bit more well received.




Just ignore her like i have, she's a classic case of a homer. Only her beliefs matter, everyone elses she laughs at and bashes them. Not worth responding to.

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## Scatterbrain

> what scatter means is that those are water crystals, not molecules
> like, snowflakes....
> 
> was it that?



Exactly, if it was a molecule we would see the electron cloud and the atoms.

OMG I just noticed, in less than 12 days our calendar will end too! Some big changes must be coming right?

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## Jeff777

> Just ignore her like i have, she's a classic case of a homer. Only her beliefs matter, everyone elses she laughs at and bashes them. Not worth responding to.



People like that are very...interesting, to say the least.  It took me a while but I've grown to find different religions/cultures fascinating and worth exploring and learning more about.





> Exactly, if it was a molecule we would see the electron cloud and the atoms.
> 
> OMG I just noticed, in less than 12 days our calendar will end too! Some big changes must be coming right?



I'm afraid I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you aren't being facetious and you really are curious about the end of 2007.  Some "big changes" You would probably expect would be the start of a new year, I find that big.   :smiley:

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## Scatterbrain

> People like that are very...interesting, to say the least.  It took me a while but I've grown to find different religions/cultures fascinating and worth exploring and learning more about.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you aren't being facetious and you really are curious about the end of 2007.  Some "big changes" You would probably expect would be the start of a new year, I find that big.



2012 is no different, it's just the end of the calendar.

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## Cyclic13

What makes you so sure you're right? Fervent belief one way or the other is retarded...

The least you can do is err on the side of caution, and open yourself up to the different possibilities out there... The sun rising tomorrow isn't guaranteed or written in stone. The mayans believed our idea of time to be circular, and we have repeated the same process countless times. They thought by predicting the stars positions and seeing where things will be you could essentially see where you will be. Their pinpoint accuracy with the limited technology for their time is still astonishing to people. Where does your seemingly vast understanding of their culture (surely enough to draw those conclusions) come from?

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## Jeff777

> 2012 is no different, it's just the end of the calendar.



You could very well be right Scatterbrain, and that _is_ a possibility.  I would suggest doing some research on the mayan long count calendar and what the mayans had to say about it for yourself.  You will find through your research that they didn't just write it off as "the end of their calendar".  It has a greater level of depth/meaning than that.  However, you are entitled to your beliefs/opinions regarding 2012, but I beckon you to perish your ignorance with knowledge.

p.s. Great program SolSkye, Adrian had very valuable information, thank you for the posting.   :smiley:

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## Scatterbrain

The Mayans prophesied that blablabla... there's a bunch of religions and prophecies all around the world too and yet I don't see you following all of them.
The spaghetti monster could be planning an appearance for 2012, but as far as we know, it's just the end of a calendar.

About the sun, it's funny how you use the pictures out of context. The 1999 photo preceded the 2001 solar maximum, now we are at a minimum. Although the next max will be very big, it still won't be as big as the one from 1958.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm

I took a quick a look at two of the articles linked in the first post, in one of them as usual a galactic alignment was referred. Would somebody care to explain exactly how such an alignment would affect us?

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## Jeff777

> The Mayans prophesied that blablabla... there's a bunch of religions and prophecies all around the world too and yet I don't see you following all of them.



The mayans were not the only ones, Scatterbrain, the Hopi, I-Ching, the Hindu, (though I'm not a fan) Nostradamus, and many others as well.  Should you wish to acquire more information, do the research yourself.  But then again, why research when you've got it all figured out?   :wink2: 





> About the sun, it's funny how you use the pictures out of context. The 1999 photo preceded the 2001 solar maximum, now we are at a minimum. Although the next max will be very big, it still won't be as big as the one from 1958.
> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm



Yes, a solar maximum did hit in 1958, but I fail to see information on your webpage that suggest it was bigger than the one due to peak around 2010, 2011.  I find you saying this very odd because Nasa already stated that the one due to peak around the 2010-2011 time frame is likely to be the biggest one since record keeping time in 400 years.  Show me your sources.

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## skysaw

> ...the Hindu, (though I'm not a fan)...



That has got to be one of the strangest asides I've ever read. What constitutes fandom in religion?

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## Jeff777

> That has got to be one of the strangest asides I've ever read. What constitutes fandom in religion?



That was in regards to Nostradamus, skysaw.

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## Serkat

I lol'ed.

I wonder... if I run my water-fueled car on "Love and Appreciation"-enhanced water, will it possibly travel back in time?

Jeff, I seriously think you should see a psychologist to get checked for paranoia.

P.S. Nostradamus is a big joke. Please do read a book by Randi on Nostradamus and come back.

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## Jdeadevil

Jeff for fuck sake you're going insane about the end of the world. You're becoming obsessed!

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## Tornado Joe

> I took a quick a look at two of the articles linked in the first post, in one of them as usual a galactic alignment was referred. Would somebody care to explain exactly how such an alignment would affect us?



Well, I'm not sure about what it will do to us, but if it does anything similar than what it did to the *Mystics*, I'm game (I wouldn't mind being a little taller!)


^--- *Mystics* _before_ the Great Conjunction... 



^--- *Mystics* _during_ the Great Conjunction (note all the *Skeksis* scattering in fear - that would be you  ::chuckle::  )



^--- *Mystics* _after_ the Great Conjunction (who said white men can't jump?! )



^---* Jeff777*---"Don't be such a Skeksie!!"

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## Jeff777

All I'm doing is sharing information that different relgions/cultures have regarding 2012.  Nowhere in this entire thread did I say "Head for the hills, wear aluminum foil caps and kiss your ass goodbye!"  Hence why this is a museum of "information".  If you don't like the information, feel free to comment, if you do, feel free to comment.  Though this is for those who "are" interested as opposed to those who "aren't".  Just the same, I appreciate you stopping by.

Edit: Lol Joe.

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## skysaw

I sense a run on aluminum foil.

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## awoke

haha, people are so sure of life. not a big mystery at all to most.
I happen to think it's a massive fucking mystery. the world used to be flat.
Anything's possible. and often times, reality is stranger than fiction.
etc etc..

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## Grod

> Jeff for fuck sake you're going insane about the end of the world. You're becoming obsessed!



JD... come on.... 2012 *is not* the end of the world. Jeff even said that in this very thread.

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## Mystic7

> All I'm doing is sharing information that different relgions/cultures have regarding 2012. Nowhere in this entire thread did I say "Head for the hills, wear aluminum foil caps and kiss your ass goodbye!"



Jeff my friend, that is exactly there attitude when you say things they despise. Grod wants to refute the end of the world. We can see who is the insane bunch and it's not you or me.

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## Scatterbrain

> The mayans were not the only ones, Scatterbrain, the Hopi, I-Ching, the Hindu, (though I'm not a fan) Nostradamus, and many others as well. Should you wish to acquire more information, do the research yourself. But then again, why research when you've got it all figured out?



What you cited is a very small percentage of all religions. Anyway, the important question is why is 2012 so important? Just saying "because the Mayans/Hopi/etc said so" doesn't cut it.





> Yes, a solar maximum did hit in 1958, but I fail to see information on your webpage that suggest it was bigger than the one due to peak around 2010, 2011.  I find you saying this very odd because Nasa already stated that the one due to peak around the 2010-2011 time frame is likely to be the biggest one since record keeping time in 400 years.  Show me your sources.



My mistake, wrong link. Here you go:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...htm?list862664

"If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity *second only to the historic Solar Max of 1958.*"

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## Grod

> Jeff my friend, that is exactly there attitude when you say things they despise. Grod wants to refute the end of the world. We can see who is the insane bunch and it's not you or me.



Sorry if it came that way off my post, I didn't mean it like that. I don't think the world will end in 2012 but I think there will be very big changes.

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## Jeff777

> Sorry if it came that way off my post, I didn't mean it like that. I don't think the world will end in 2012 but I think there will be very big changes.



I did not take it that way Grod.   :smiley:   I received it as you meant it.





> What you cited is a very small percentage of all religions. Anyway, the important question is why is 2012 so important? Just saying "because the Mayans/Hopi/etc said so" doesn't cut it.



The information is deeper than that, and as I suggested in my previous posts, do the research yourself...the time you spend searching for nasa links could be better used at finding out your own answers.  I believe I suggested that kindly in my previous posts.  Surely the internet can't be that hard to figure out.  However, if you are not familiar with search engines or tags, I'll mention a few.

www.google.com
www.yahoo.com
www.altavista.com
www.excite.com

Tags: 2012 mayan calendar, 2012 hopi, 2012 predictions, solar system 2012 changes, 2012 information, science and 2012 etc...





> My mistake, wrong link. Here you go:
> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...htm?list862664
> 
> "If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity *second only to the historic Solar Max of 1958.*"



Solar cycle 24, due to peak in 2010 or 2011 "looks like its going to be one of the most intense cycles since record-keeping began almost 400 years ago," says solar physicist David Hathaway of the Marshall Space Flight Center. He and colleague Robert Wilson presented this conclusion last week at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco.  Here's my source.  http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...ec_cycle24.htm

Also, your article's publication date is March 10, 2006.  I believe the link I provided above is  Dec. 21, 2006   :smiley:

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## Scatterbrain

> The information is deeper than that, and as I suggested in my previous posts, do the research yourself...the time you spend searching for nasa links could be better used at finding out your own answers. I believe I suggested that kindly in my previous posts. Surely the internet can't be that hard to figure out. However, if you are not familiar with search engines or tags, I'll mention a few.



I've heard enough about 2012. If the proof is out there and you've seen it, answering the question I asked should be easy.





> Solar cycle 24, due to peak in 2010 or 2011 "looks like its going to be one of the most intense cycles since record-keeping began almost 400 years ago," says solar physicist David Hathaway of the Marshall Space Flight Center. He and colleague Robert Wilson presented this conclusion last week at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco. Here's my source. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...ec_cycle24.htm
> 
> Also, your article's publication date is March 10, 2006. I believe the link I provided above is Dec. 21, 2006



Still, I don't see how it could change the world. I don't know the exact effects but they must be along the line of disrupting some communications, affecting the orbital decay of satellites and the appearance of auroras.

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## Mystic7

grod I misinterpreted what you said. My bad.  ::?:

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## Jeff777

> I've heard enough about 2012. If the proof is out there and you've seen it, answering the question I asked should be easy.



You say you've heard enough about 2012, yet you've done no research for yourself to answer your _own_ question.   ::hrm::   Anyway...friend, I believe you have misunderstood me.  Nowhere did I say I have proof whatsoever.  This is a "museum" of information and art.  It's not my purpose to persuade you, only to supply information and artwork pertaining to the subject.  I'm sorry if you did not find volume 1 to your liking.  Volume 2 will be posted soon.  If you want my personal opinion/belief about 2012...I think it will interesting...to say the least.  But nowhere did I make any claims that I had proof, if you misinterpreted this thread as me saying that, I apologize.  I (and those who enjoy(ed) scrolling through the information I posted) would like to think that it's understood that no one knows for sure what will happen on that year.  I have already stated that it's possible 2012 will be no different than our previous years...check page 1.   :smiley:   Now that I've clarified that...allow me to instill within your mind what this thread/museum _is._  Artwork and theorized/possible/plausible information, nothing more.  Check the title.  Nowhere did I state or even explicitly _imply_ that this thread was based on factual "I know it all" information.  Once again, if you perceived it as such, then you were mistaken and I apologize.

----------


## italianmonkey

posted by mistake'

----------


## Scatterbrain

> You say you've heard enough about 2012, yet you've done no research for yourself to answer your _own_ question.



I started visiting LD/OOBE-related forums when I was about 13. That's 5 years of regularly having people going on about 2012, usually accompanied by links. 

Still not impressed, specially by those "alignment" theories.





> Anyway...friend, I believe you have misunderstood me.  Nowhere did I say I have proof whatsoever.  This is a "museum" of information and art.  It's not my purpose to persuade you, only to supply information and artwork pertaining to the subject.  I'm sorry if you did not find volume 1 to your liking.  Volume 2 will be posted soon.  If you want my personal opinion/belief about 2012...I think it will interesting...to say the least.  But nowhere did I make any claims that I had proof, if you misinterpreted this thread as me saying that, I apologize.



You may not have claimed you had proof but the thread implies 2012 is a special date, it's only fair to ask for proof.

----------


## Jeff777

> I started visiting LD/OOBE-related forums when I was about 13. That's 5 years of regularly having people going on about 2012, usually accompanied by links. 
> 
> Still not impressed, specially by those "alignment" theories.



I'm sorry you were under the impression this thread was meant to impress the "almighty scatterbrain"  ::wino::   If you are a forum vet and have been hearing about 2012 for years and you're sick of it...why stumble in here?  You're definitely a piece of work and although you weren't impressed, I was rather impressed watching you continue to mock me and beg for proof.  Now it's my turn.  But thank you for that source of laughter.  :smiley: 





> You may not have claimed you had proof but the thread implies 2012 is a special date, it's only fair to ask for proof.



As you said, you've been hearing about 2012 for "5 years", so I'm sure I am not posting anything you aren't already familiar with.  When you're finished being a time-wasting douche, please see yourself out  :;-):

----------


## Mystic7

Jeff. Slow to anger and wrath. They have their reward. We have ours. Why do you think he is called scatterbrain?

----------


## Scatterbrain

> blablabla



I sincerely apologize for questioning your beliefs and thinking that the point of a discussion forum is to discuss. Whatever was i thinking in voicing my opinion? And backed up by reason, which is even worse.  :Sad: 






> Why do you think he is called scatterbrain?



My nickname comes from a song by radiohead, which is made obvious by the expression under the nickname and in the location field. It's also a reference to my LDs.

I shouldn't have bothered to point that out but whatever.

----------


## Cyclic13

Reasoning? Where? As a matter of fact, you haven't backed up your opinion worth a damn, scatterbrain... You also never answered my question back on page one as to how you jumped to your oh-so-sure conclusion... Skepticism is one thing... belief in nothing happening is another...


Terence McKenna talks about the I-ching, novelty theory, 2012 and the nature of time. Exerpt from 'The Rites of Spring'.

2012 & the Nature of Time Pt.1; Pt.2; Pt.3; Pt.4

----------


## Jeff777

> Terence McKenna talks about the I-ching, novelty theory, 2012 and the nature of time. Exerpt from 'The Rites of Spring'.
> 
> 2012 & the Nature of Time Pt.1; Pt.2; Pt.3; Pt.4



 ::bowdown::  ::bowdown::  ::bowdown::

----------


## Mystic7

> My nickname comes from a song by radiohead, which is made obvious by the expression under the nickname and in the location field. It's also a reference to my LDs.



It's a reference to where your head is at. Why do you think it's called radiohead made obvious by the nickname in the location field. I am the signal to your brain telling you it's scattered.  :smiley:

----------


## Universal Mind

I love the topic of 12/21/12.  Let's dig this thread up on 12/22/12 and discuss what ended up happening.  I don't think the end of the world will happen on 12/21, but the assassination of the former leader of nuclear Pakistan and the civil war that seems to be brewing up there has me very concerned.

----------


## Mystic7

Universal mind I got a suprise for you.

----------


## Mystic7

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...t=44978&page=3

Remember the pictures....take a close look at the pictures.

Now Take a even closer look.

----------


## 27

Why argue about this? We're only five years away from it, it's either going to be proven or disproven very soon.

----------


## Mystic7

I'm part of the 27 club myself.

----------


## Universal Mind

> Universal mind I got a suprise for you.



More transvestite porn pictures?  My people at NASA have a surprise for you.  The level of surprise depends on the vector of your approach toward Oz.  Do you wish to proceed?

----------


## Scatterbrain

SolSkye, you mean...





> Where does your seemingly vast understanding of their culture (surely enough to draw those conclusions) come from?



...this question?

No, I don't have a vast understanding of their culture, but that's off the point. You're expecting me to believe 2012 will be special just because they "said so", without telling me why it will be special or how they came up to that conclusion.





> They thought by predicting the stars positions and seeing where things will be you could essentially see where you will be. Their pinpoint accuracy with the limited technology for their time is still astonishing to people.



Pinpoint of what? where? And how does that relate to 2012?

Name one astronomical event, running on a 26000 years cycle, which could bring forth a catastrophe. And don't bother with pointing out the precession of the equinoxes, unless there's some uber effect from it which I overlooked.





> Terence McKenna talks about the I-ching, novelty theory, 2012 and the nature of time. Exerpt from 'The Rites of Spring'.
> 
> 2012 & the Nature of Time Pt.1; Pt.2; Pt.3; Pt.4



Unfortunately right now i don't have time for 40 minutes of you tube, tomorrow I'll take a look at it. However, from what I understand novelty theory has nothing to do with the other 2012 theories, also, it incorporates pseudoscience and the 2012 date itself was chosen arbitrarily.

----------


## Cyclic13

The only thing I'm expecting of you is, to admit you know nothing as to what will happen tomorrow, let alone 2012. Therefore, you need to look at all the possible theories and evidence with an open mind until they are exposed as fraudulent... Is it that hard to remain an open-minded skeptic? Take a science-fiction movie for example, do you need to ascribe to, understand, or believe all the theories presented in the movie before you watch and enjoy it? Why deal with reality any differently? It's only food for thought, nothing more...

It's not wise or in your best interest to sit there and immediately write something off as preposterous just because it doesn't fit into your current world model. No great change is every wrought from close-mindedness.

Especially considering you have no basis to simply write this off. If by some off-chance you did somehow have a grounded view, you would need to provide that view with some substance otherwise it inevitably amounts to jack. Just being doubtful doesn't cut it.

Throughout history, 2012 has been an date of interest reached independently by a multitude of cultures and people. Whether you believe an end of time scenario or not, this is not something just popping up now because the date is 5 years away, it's been around and talked about for 1000's of years. So give a little more respect to the topic and remain open-minded, would you?

Also, Let's be honest with ourselves here... No one is _that_ busy where they can't afford to make 40 minutes available out of their day to listen to an informed man speak about something interesting. It's just that you don't want to make the time to listen because you don't find this topic that interesting. Which is fine, but don't sit here and feign how you'd like to but you're just sooo busy you can't take the time out of your schedule. I'm _sure_ you did something equally if not more pointless with your time rather than simply choosing to sit there and listen to it. The fact that you feel yourself above making the time to listen to someone as articulate and intelligent as Terence McKenna is really insulting to his memory. All the interviews I post in here are gems, not something to be discounted and discarded with the morning newspaper.

If you can't give a topic respect or credence enough to leave unfounded bias' and subjection out of it then perhaps it's a good idea to not post about it at all?

And, for those that choose to make the time... ::rolleyes:: 
Here's a more in-depth interview...

Terence McKenna & the I-Ching Pt.1; Pt.2; Pt.3; Pt.4; Pt.5; Pt.6

----------


## gameover

> The fact that you feel yourself above making the time to listen to someone as articulate and intelligent as Terence McKenna is really insulting to his memory



He said he'd watch it later. But either way, Terrence McKenna was a nut. He ate a lot of hallucinogenic mushrooms in the Amazon with his brother and some other people. His brother went insane. And from this comes all sorts of theories. While admittedly a good read, this is definitely another case of the flying spaghetti monster. Can't be disproven but certainly not enough substance to build a case. But putting all the flimsy theories aside, the Mayan calendar is amazing. It really is amazing how accurate it is. And also amazing that our modern calendar is to terrible by comparison.

----------


## Cyclic13

A nut? He's much more well-known, accredited, respected, and knowledgeable than you'll ever be... that much is certain...

Nothing can be proved by anyone because the simple act of perception and observation by the subject taints the results making them biasedly based around someone's imperfect hypothesis. There are no infallible laws to this paradoxical universe. There are theories, with a substantial amount of evidence for or against them, but nothing can ever be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, either way. So, your "flying spaghetti monster" mindset should really be applied to all of reality, not just his views. Therefore just saying it "can't be disproven" and immediately writing it off doesn't really carry any weight, in my book. All of reality is one big collective hunch, anyway. You might as well allow for all possibilities or theories in your head, because one thing that is guaranteed to happen with all beliefs is; no matter how many people out there stand behind a given theory or belief, and no matter how much logic was used to get there, time always gets the best of that theory or belief proving it _flat-out_ wrong in the end. That's why the mystery of life should be so humbling to all. You'll never reach a conclusion worthy of true belief. If you think so, you'll always eventually get knocked flat on your ass.

Also, who cares if he did psychedelics? That statement in itself stinks of this naive "Just say, no..." close-minded mentality about drugs that most people in westernized countries now hold. Contrary to popular belief, psychedelics don't turn you into social deviants. Not to mention, they probably even played an important role into our first experiences with self-awareness as early man. If anything, doing psychedelics will strip away your ego enough to see the current consumeristic cultural model for the farce that it is, and allow you to gain insight into the processes of life... *gasp* god forbid.. a thinking, questioning individual! Can't have that now, can we?

----------


## Idolfan

As far as I know that date is when the Earth completes a 26,000 year wobble. This means it will be the warmest part of the interglacial period we are in and hopefully after that we will start plummeting into a new ice age (over another 26,000 years). What that's got to do with the end of the world is anybody's guess, it's happened countless times in history already so why should the world end now? Yes it's a load of bollocks, but good for "hope" I guess. I would certainly like to beleive the world is going to end, this life sucks.

By the way; do we know how many people beleive in it? I'm just interested so I can watch them crash and burn so I know how popular it is and how many people will know what I'm on about if I mention it.

----------


## Grod

> As far as I know that date is when the Earth completes a 26,000 year wobble. This means it will be the warmest part of the interglacial period we are in and hopefully after that we will start plummeting into a new ice age (over another 26,000 years). What that's got to do with the end of the world is anybody's guess, it's happened countless times in history already so why should the world end now? Yes it's a load of bollocks, but good for "hope" I guess. I would certainly like to beleive the world is going to end, this life sucks.
> 
> By the way; do we know how many people beleive in it? I'm just interested so I can watch them crash and burn so I know how popular it is and how many people will know what I'm on about if I mention it.




OK. Enough with the world ending. No one said that here. Where are you coming up with that? If you took the time to read this, you would see no one said that.

----------


## Scatterbrain

> The only thing I'm expecting of you is, to admit you know nothing as to what will happen tomorrow, let alone 2012.



I irony is... too much. I'm not the one claiming to know what will happen, you're the ones saying 2012 will be special.





> Therefore, you need to look at all the possible theories and evidence with an open mind until they are exposed as fraudulent... Is it that hard to remain an open-minded skeptic? Take a science-fiction movie for example, do you need to ascribe to, understand, or believe all the theories presented in the movie before you watch and enjoy it? Why deal with reality any differently? It's only food for thought, nothing more...



I read a quote somewhere that went along these lines: "It's important to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls off."





> It's not wise or in your best interest to sit there and immediately write something off as preposterous just because it doesn't fit into your current world model. No great change is every wrought from close-mindedness.



_Main Entry: pre&#183;pos&#183;ter&#183;ous
: contrary to nature, reason, or common sense_

I re-read my last post and I didn't find any lie or fallacy. What did I write that is preposterous?





> Especially considering you have no basis to simply write this off. If by some off-chance you did somehow have a grounded view, you would need to provide that view with some substance otherwise it inevitably amounts to jack. Just being doubtful doesn't cut it.



Next time read my post *before* replying, or at least do some study before subscribing to some belief. There's no knowledge of an astronomical event in 2012 that'll affect us, except for the solar max, but it's effects aren't exactly "earth-changing".





> Throughout history, 2012 has been an date of interest reached independently by a multitude of cultures and people. Whether you believe an end of time scenario or not, this is not something just popping up now because the date is 5 years away, it's been around and talked about for 1000's of years. So give a little more respect to the topic and remain open-minded, would you?



Err... I think, though I could be wrong, all that comes from the precession of the equinoxes cycle.





> Also, Let's be honest with ourselves here... No one is _that_ busy where they can't afford to make 40 minutes available out of their day to listen to an informed man speak about something interesting. It's just that you don't want to make the time to listen because you don't find this topic that interesting. Which is fine, but don't sit here and feign how you'd like to but you're just sooo busy you can't take the time out of your schedule.



College exams are one week away now and I missed a lot of classes because of some complications. Busy enough?

I do not find this topic interesting but I'm willing to listen (even though I think McKenna more than necessary), once I have time.





> I'm _sure_ you did something equally if not more pointless with your time rather than simply choosing to sit there and listen to it. The fact that you feel yourself above making the time to listen to someone as articulate and intelligent as Terence McKenna is really insulting to his memory. All the interviews I post in here are gems, not something to be discounted and discarded with the morning newspaper.



Your ability to assume what people do with their time and to know what's best for everyone amazes me. Call Dr. Suresh, you're special.





> If you can't give a topic respect or credence enough to leave unfounded bias' and subjection out of it then perhaps it's a good idea to not post about it at all?



We are at the dreamviews *discussion* forums, in the extended *discussion* section. Surely I have the right to write arguments with *logic.*

----------


## Xaqaria

Did everything just taste purple for a second? I coulda sworn this thread was much better off in Senseless Banter.

----------


## Mystic7

UM Einstein use your imagination.

ET and the bathtub. Science of sleep. Waterhorse and the bathtub. Legend of the deep.

Bigfoot. LockNess. UFO hovering not making sense to the leftbrain. But still. You saw it for yourself. You remember.

what time is it what time is it now. WHAT TIME is it.

Terrifying tunnel vision of the left brain. Can't see what the crop circles mean. Can't hear the mystic river sound. Or read the golden compass decode it somehow.

----------


## Mystic7



----------


## Cyclic13

> We are at the dreamviews *discussion* forums, in the extended *discussion* section. Surely I have the right to write arguments with *logic.*



I think you got it wrong... its....
We are at the *dreamviews* discussion forums, in the extended discussion section. Surely I have the right to write arguments with *intuitive logic**.*

*Isn't that what being lucid is truly about? ... being in your RIGHT mind (pardon the pun)* 

Afterall, last I checked this site isn't "the uninspired left-brained logical debate society forum extraodinaire" now, is it?

You have to always remember one thing...


...As, the Caterpillar said to Alice..."Mean what you say, and say what you mean... I do"  ::D: 


Mystic... Vide, Aude Tace  :wink2:

----------


## Mystic7

no longer will we be blind to what is. Or follow the sin of the world. The masses are soon to betray sin. And Ashamed shall you all be who are seduced to the illusion of it. For when purity harvest those that are pure. The weak shall perish. For there is those among us that have eyes to see, and a will to follow that prevail. Glory that awaits the pure. And shame followed by destruction awaits the wicked.

----------


## Mystic7

Universal Mind. Do you remember the horse with the swimming outfit with the space music? Followed by the nazi symbol? What picture stands in the background after andy escapes from prision and is found empty in his cell from the movie shawshank redemption? The night he escapes. Is it raining?

----------


## Cyclic13

This will be made into a movie this year...along with 'The Grays' book he also wrote... coincidence...? I don't think so. synchronicity...? most definitely.

Whitley Strieber 2012: War For Souls Pt.1;Pt.2;Pt.3;Pt.4;Pt.5;Pt.6;Pt.7;Pt.8;Pt.9;Pt.10;Pt.11;Pt.12

Enjoy!

----------


## Universal Mind

> Universal Mind. Do you remember the horse with the swimming outfit with the space music? Followed by the nazi symbol? What picture stands in the background after andy escapes from prision and is found empty in his cell from the movie shawshank redemption? The night he escapes. Is it raining?



Those people make entertaining movies.  They're good people.  They're all great Americans, but they don't know what the queers are doing to the soil.

----------


## Cyclic13



----------


## 27

I don't see the point of all the pictures but I like the first two!

----------


## Jeff777

Great finds Solskye!  George Lucas (or Spieldbierg) will make a movie in 2010 called "2012: the war for souls"  Don't have much info on it...though seems kind of self-explanatory.  :tongue2:

----------


## Timothy Paradox

Fantastic thread! I'm REALLY looking forward to 2012; and IF nothing happens, so what. Love and compassion are universal things that are ALWAYS important, no matter what year it is.
It is also critical that every human recognizes the importance of the individual - the labeling of people has to end.
Keep an open mind, believe whatever you want to believe; just don't force anyone to believe you.  

I do have the feeling SOMETHING is going on. I just feel it, it's like the winds of change. Time will tell, whatever time is.

----------


## tkdyo

Ive seen a lot of different theories on what 2012 will mean, if it is a gigantic shift in conciousness it could be that the world will start to cool again and once again, everyone will fear global cooling instead of global warming

----------


## Cyclic13

> Great finds Solskye!  George Lucas (or Spieldbierg) will make a movie in 2010 called "2012: the war for souls"  Don't have much info on it...though seems kind of self-explanatory.



Actually, in the interview Whitley mentions that the same team who did Transformers will do it. (aka. Michael Bay) I don't know how I feel about letting someone as mindless as Michael Bay deal with the topic of 2012. As for 'The Grays', Sony will do it but I don't know who will be directing.

To give you all a brief synopsis of the story of '2012: The War for Souls', I heard in the interview that the main character is a novelist writing about 2012 when he finds that he isn't writing a fiction story at all, and is in fact writing future history. He connects with himself in a different parallel earth doing the exact same thing, and finds himself channeling the story and is unable to stop writing. In this story, there are three earths that are colliding through the galactic center which happens to be at his house in Kansas.

One of the earths, is a utopian earth with problems mind you but not nearly as many as we have. They didn't have any world wars, despot leaders, nor did they have an overpopulation or environmental problem. Another earth, is an earth where humans don't exist because the dinosaurs didn't go extinct and developed a sentient intelligent race of reptiles paralleling our own. This earth is a cold and dark place and more on the lines of an evil earth because the reptiles themselves don't actually feel anything. The reptiles are aware of our earth and are curious of our ability to feel happiness and love and find that they can feed off the level of happiness of the souls they collect. So they decide to come through the rift in order to feed off of us. Our earth is smack-dab in the middle of this. Not quite good or bad, but more along the lines of a little bit of both. He finds himself having to team up with the other him in the more peaceful earth to stop these reptiles from coming into our reality.

Sounds pretty cool. I'll probably be picking up the book.

----------


## Man of Shred

i can't wait till "the Grays" come out on the big screen. i have the book. it is awesome!

----------


## Jeff777

> Actually, in the interview Whitley mentions that the same team who did Transformers will do it. (aka. Michael Bay) I don't know how I feel about letting someone as mindless as Michael Bay deal with the topic of 2012. As for 'The Grays', Sony will do it but I don't know who will be directing.
> 
> To give you all a brief synopsis of the story of '2012: The War for Souls', I heard in the interview that the main character is a novelist writing about 2012 when he finds that he isn't writing a fiction story at all, and is in fact writing future history. He connects with himself in a different parallel earth doing the exact same thing, and finds himself channeling the story and is unable to stop writing. In this story, there are three earths that are colliding through the galactic center which happens to be at his house in Kansas.
> 
> One of the earths, is a utopian earth with problems mind you but not nearly as many as we have. They didn't have any world wars, despot leaders, nor did they have an overpopulation or environmental problem. Another earth, is an earth where humans don't exist because the dinosaurs didn't go extinct and developed a sentient intelligent race of reptiles paralleling our own. This earth is a cold and dark place and more on the lines of an evil earth because the reptiles themselves don't actually feel anything. The reptiles are aware of our earth and are curious of our ability to feel happiness and love and find that they can feed off the level of happiness of the souls they collect. So they decide to come through the rift in order to feed off of us. Our earth is smack-dab in the middle of this. Not quite good or bad, but more along the lines of a little bit of both. He finds himself having to team up with the other him in the more peaceful earth to stop these reptiles from coming into our reality.
> 
> Sounds pretty cool. I'll probably be picking up the book.



Wow, that sounds really amazing Solskye, I think I'll buy the book myself.  The last bit sounds alot like the reptilian theory though.  Alot.

----------


## Mystic7

Hey everyone lets play that DV Anthem.

Ready?

*GO*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpdZfT3Nnfk

----------


## Cyclic13

That was pretty random. I'm not so sure I'd want that to be the anthem. That stuff is way too angry and loud for my tastes.

How about THIS?

----------


## tkdyo

that book sounds really cool.  I want to read it now!  Ive been really engrossed in Tolkein lately though so it may have to wait

----------


## Mystic7

SolSkye

This one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiyl6AfBxY

----------


## Cyclic13

Zuvuya 2012

----------


## Timothy Paradox

Cool stuff. I don't think "time machines" will come to earth and kill us all though. (well they can TRY)

----------


## Idolfan

Wow dudes sorry about my retard post earlier, I jumped to conclusions too fast. It's a nice collection though. I don't get how if it's only five years away how I didn't hear it mentioned sooner. How long have people been thinking about the events of 2012?

----------


## Timothy Paradox

I guess since the Mayans created their calender thousands of years ago...it's older than Jesus and his 'crew'.

----------


## Timothy Paradox

> Nothing can be proved by anyone because the simple act of perception and observation by the subject taints the results making them biasedly based around someone's imperfect hypothesis. There are no infallible laws to this paradoxical universe. There are theories, with a substantial amount of evidence for or against them, but nothing can ever be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, either way. So, your "flying spaghetti monster" mindset should really be applied to all of reality, not just his views. Therefore just saying it "can't be disproven" and immediately writing it off doesn't really carry any weight, in my book. All of reality is one big collective hunch, anyway. You might as well allow for all possibilities or theories in your head, because one thing that is guaranteed to happen with all beliefs is; no matter how many people out there stand behind a given theory or belief, and no matter how much logic was used to get there, time always gets the best of that theory or belief proving it _flat-out_ wrong in the end. That's why the mystery of life should be so humbling to all. You'll never reach a conclusion worthy of true belief. If you think so, you'll always eventually get knocked flat on your ass.



I couldn't agree more. 
Sorry, just needed to say that.

----------


## Jeff777

Whose Jesus?  That mexican guy who cuts my grass?

----------


## Timothy Paradox

Exactly. In those days people didn't know lawnmowers yet so they thought Jesus was performing miracles.




> Whose Jesus?  That mexican guy who cuts my grass?

----------


## juroara

> conspiracy theories are funny, the world is going to end in 2000. I think it is 7 years too late. And now we have 2012.
> 
> Soon we will have 2020. Sorry the world is not going to end. Also, the illuminati was destroyed ages ago, it only because of a fictional book that the conspricy became popular again. I guess if your paranoid then you have a new hobby, exposing the illuminati.



I dont think you even looked at the thread???


I appreciate this thread thoroughly!  ::banana:: its good to see more people who understand the message behind 2012 is not destruction or the end of the world, its the beginning of something new. and a calling for mankind to change and to never again fall back onto the things that hold mankind back

----------


## Jeff777

> I dont think you even looked at the thread???
> 
> 
> I appreciate this thread thoroughly! its good to see more people who understand the message behind 2012 is not destruction or the end of the world, its the beginning of something new. and a calling for mankind to change and to never again fall back onto the things that hold mankind back



 :boogie:  I'm glad to see someone else understands =)  Also the point of this thread wasn't to persuade anyone to any way of thinking.  I included destruction theories, ascension theories and other theories.  People can make up their own minds, I've found they have the capability to at least do that.  

p.s. Explaining things to wendylove is like teaching lemur's calculus.

----------


## Cyclic13

The 2002 'Alien Face' Formation

The circle in the center is actually ASCII code, saying...

*"Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. (Damaged Word). There is GOOD out there.We OPpose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING (BELL SOUND)".*



At first, I honestly thought a lot of this interview was crap but if you stick with it past part 1... it gets better... particularly at 2:15 of part 8.5 which *talks about how exactly we align with the galactic center*... points to signature  ::chuckle::   :poof: 

The 2012 Ouroboros Doomsday Clock. 
(Part 1 of 9);(Part 2 of 9);(Part 3 of 9);(Part 4 of 9);(Part 5 of 9);(Part 6 of 9);(Part 7 of 9);(Part 8 of 9);(Part 8.5 of 9);(Part 9.0 of 9)


Remote viewing Tibetan monks see Extra Terrestrial powers saving the World from destroying itself in 2012
"...Monks also mentioned that beyond 2012 our current civilization would understand that the final frontier of science and technology is in area of spirituality and not material physics and chemistry. Beyond 2012, out technologies will take a different direction. People will learn the essence of spirituality, the relation between body and the soul, the reincarnation and the fact we are connected with each other are all part of “God”..."

----------


## MrDamon

*@ Jeff..*

I just wanted to thank you for posting this thread here..

It was the second time I seen a reference to 2012 in under a week.  The first time, I scanned through the posts and brushed it off and forgot about it.. But then a few days later I ran into this thread and I decided to read and then decided to research and then decided to plan!

Its much better to be safe than sorry and when ancient predictions co-incide with todays scientific discoveries I tend to pay attention.  I personally dont give a rats ass if nothing major happens by and around 2012 but as I love to say, It's not the destination that brings happiness, but the journey.  I know I am the way I am for a reason and I know I have experienced the things I have for a reason and I've never been steered wrong by going with my instincts and following my signs, so if it's a choice between having a plan or being ignorant and waiting to see what happens then y'all can call me Mr Organized cuz I aint goin out like a fool.

----------


## Jeff777

> *@ Jeff..*
> 
> I just wanted to thank you for posting this thread here..
> 
> It was the second time I seen a reference to 2012 in under a week.  The first time, I scanned through the posts and brushed it off and forgot about it.. But then a few days later I ran into this thread and I decided to read and then decided to research and then decided to plan!
> 
> Its much better to be safe than sorry and when ancient predictions co-incide with todays scientific discoveries I tend to pay attention.  I personally dont give a rats ass if nothing major happens by and around 2012 but as I love to say, It's not the destination that brings happiness, but the journey.  I know I am the way I am for a reason and I know I have experienced the things I have for a reason and I've never been steered wrong by going with my instincts and following my signs, so if it's a choice between having a plan or being ignorant and waiting to see what happens then y'all can call me Mr Organized cuz I aint goin out like a fool.



MrDamon, you are most welcome.   :wink2:

----------


## Cyclic13

Here's a video I just made with a recent song of ours that alludes to my thoughts...

Terence McKenna & SolSkye - Come Dither While Rome Burns

----------


## Cyclic13

2012 Pole Shift - Mayan and I Ching prediction


Timewave Zero Clip

----------


## YULAW

> What makes you so sure you're right? Fervent belief one way or the other is retarded...
> 
> The least you can do is err on the side of caution, and open yourself up to the different possibilities out there... The sun rising tomorrow isn't guaranteed or written in stone. The mayans believed our idea of time to be circular, and we have repeated the same process countless times. They thought by predicting the stars positions and seeing where things will be you could essentially see where you will be. Their pinpoint accuracy with the limited technology for their time is still astonishing to people. Where does your seemingly vast understanding of their culture (surely enough to draw those conclusions) come from?



Sorry I'm late on this one, however this particular reply caught my attention. I'm curious about something SolSkye. You've mentioned "err on the side of caution." What steps are you currently taking as precautionary methods regarding to 2012?

----------


## Scatterbrain

> 2012 Pole Shift - Mayan and I Ching prediction



Errr...

1º - If the alignment takes place every 25800 years, then said event would happen about 8 times during one galactic year. Then 8 would also have to be the number of times the sun passes through the galactic plane, which is not the case I think.

2º - What they're talking about in the movie is geomagnetic reversal, pole shift theory concerns a change in the axis of rotation.

3º - How would an alignment with the center of the galaxy(one could probably even argue such alignment happens every year) cause a pole shift or geomagnetic reversal?

----------


## Cyclic13

> Sorry I'm late on this one, however this particular reply caught my attention. I'm curious about something SolSkye. You've mentioned "err on the side of caution." What steps are you currently taking as precautionary methods regarding to 2012?



I just inform myself with as many positive ideas and as much positive information as I can, and try to keep an open mind and even keel about it.

The analogy I made up, and have said before is; 

"That same energy you spend building walls, can just as easily be put into building bridges."

Somehow though, for whatever reason, many of the finite shells people currently inhabit have built up these superfluous walls in their minds that don't really exist, and many have forgotten to see the very real bridges that do. So basically, they end up fearing sharing their gathered experiences with the whole. But, that isn't the real essence of life in them talking, the essence that is in you is undeniably in me, and that fear of acknowledging it won't keep those collected experiences from being added to the essence of the whole if only they simply took the time to look for the bridges of life. If anything, clutching to those walls of doubt and fear, will make that transition back to the source that much harder for themselves, in the end. 

If one came from the whole at birth, interact with the whole during life, and return to the whole upon death, one can't simply decide to cut ties with it and think that the bond has been severed completely. That is delusional in itself. Ignorance of acknowledging that will only cause one more grief and fear in the end.

Just let go of that false-ego. It's just a shell... or chrysalis to the objective perspective. The ride becomes admittedly more interesting once one stops fighting themselves, and truly lets go.


In the past I quickly put up walls but, I've been learning to look for the bridges between things as opposed to rashly attempt to put up those walls. Using the darkness of space as a metaphor for life, It's REALLY easy to stare into the vast empty darkness of space and get overwhelmed by it, or lost in it, or simply outright deny it being a part of you because it just seems so all-encompassing. Just as, it's equally easy to stare into the darkness of people and deny them being a part of you and your essence of being, as the self-aware universe. 

Looking at the light side of the universe, the world, and people... and seeing how exactly those things intertwine and interconnect is the only true way to go about doing it, I think... Afterall, it is the light that illuminates everything, not the darkness... The darkness just gives one perspective of what the light really is and does...

I've started to think from an even more open perspective than ever before, and started to see that all the death, and doomsaying as just a cyclical transition. Through recurring dreams, meditation, psychedelics, etc., I think that our planet is getting ready to free ourselves from the chrysalis of the earth womb, and have us take on our freer lighter cosmic butterfly form... 

Especially, from personally having those recurring dreams about 2012 since a child, I've always questioned and naturally misunderstood and been afraid of the destruction I see in those dreams. As I've had those same vivid dreams more and more since my childhood, I've grown to see it as a transition to a higher state of mind.

Those that don't feel ready, by not getting themselves mentally prepared by seeing the bridges in life to allow them to get on board, or for whatever reason have spent their time building unnecessary walls up around themselves as to not be a part of it, unfortunately get into that mindset that gets them stuck here in the aftermath for another cycle until they feel ready. Their own dis-acknowlegement of the bridges separates them as the husk, which remains.

Although, as Scatterbrain pointed out, a mother can only give birth to so many offspring (in this case maybe 5-6 times) before it's final chance arrives... and I also think we were too rough on our mother earth this time around to give us another chance after this...

You are more than welcome to disbelieve how I feel and think, I have just found this to be true for me...






*Other Cultures and Civilizations with a 2012 Event Timeline*

Hopi Predict a 25yr period of purification followed by End of Fourth World and beginning of the Fifth.

Mayans Call it the 'end days' or the end of time as we know it.

Maoris Say that as the veils dissolve there will be a merging of the physical & spiritual worlds.

Zulu Believe that the whole world will be turned upside down.

Hindus Kali Yuga (end time of man). The Coming of Kalki & critical mass of Enlightened Ones.

Incas Call it the 'Age of Meeting Ourselves Again'.

Aztec Call this the Time of the Sixth Sun. A time of transformation. Creation of new race.

Dogon Say that the spaceship of the visitors, the Nommo, will return in the form of a blue star.

Pueblo Acknowledge it'll be the emergence into the Fifth World

Cherokee Their ancient calendar ends exactly at 2012 as does the Mayan calendar.

Tibetan Kalachakra teachings are prophesies left by Buddha predicting Coming of the Golden Age.

Egypt According to the Great Pyramid (stone calendar), present time cycle ends in year 2012 AD

----------


## juroara

on a side note, can any of you tell me more about the artwork being posted here?  ::banana:: 

im having a hard time finding any artwork relating to dreams/or other weird experiences

----------


## Cyclic13

A simple search in a search engine will have you find some amazing things.

----------


## Traveling_Troubador

> A simple search in a search engine will have you find some amazing things.



The Collective Mind manifesting itself into reality...   ::banana::

----------


## Sornaensis

Doomsday?

Utter bullshit.

[/thread]

----------


## Jeff777

> Doomsday?
> 
> Utter bullshit.
> 
> [/thread]



Doomsday?  You've sooo missed the entire point/meaning of this thread.  Go back to the first post and read, when (and only when) you're educated enough about this thread...then feel free to post.

----------


## Sornaensis

Dude chill out  :tongue2:

----------


## Sornaensis

Okay I've finished reading the first post.

My conclusion? Someone like to be esoteric and post images  :wink2: 

Oh and...



1. Those are ice crystals
2. The experiments were invalidated and induplicable.


EDIT: Yep. Definately doomsday and scare tactics, Jeff.

Total bullshit.

----------


## Grod

> Okay I've finished reading the first post.
> 
> My conclusion? Someone like to be esoteric and post images 
> 
> Oh and...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Those are ice crystals
> 2. The experiments were invalidated and induplicable.



Uh, yeah. This was already stated, if you read the thread.





> EDIT: Yep. Definately doomsday and scare tactics, Jeff.



Wrong again. Nowhere did Jeff say anything about doomsday, or is trying to scare us.

 Maybe if you read the thread, you would know this.

 Oh, wait.

----------


## Sornaensis

I am, one post at a time. I have to mentaly shorten them because 80&#37; is filler crap.

It's hard work. =3

----------


## Grod

Yeah, reading the posts before responding is usually a good idea.

----------


## Sornaensis

Oh I get it now.

Jeff is obsessed w/ 2012... But definitely *not* because it's the end of the world in his mind!

Or maybe I just read this wrong?

So then what is this great event then? No one seems to want to point it out but dammit the Mayans predicted it!

Wait waht?

----------


## Grod

I don't think you read it at all, actually.





> *Jeff777 Original Post*
> "The world will not end. It will be transformed... Everything will change...Change is accelerating now, and it will continue to accelerate...If the people of the earth can get to this 2012 date in good shape



*Read*
Function:_verb_ b*:* to learn from what one has seen or found in writing or printing

Do this. ^

The original post should tell you what you need to know.

----------


## Sornaensis

Yea, that doesn't mean anything.

He forgot to:

1. Deifine change
2. Explain this acceleration
3. Elaborate on transformation

Sorry but you can't make an esoteric claim, not explain yourself, then shout "MAYANS AND HINDU'S SAYS SO!" and expect any kind of... Anything.

So no, he never said what his obsession was, Grod. 

Fail.

----------


## Grod

> Yea, that doesn't mean anything.
> 
> He forgot to:
> 
> 1. Deifine change
> 2. Explain this acceleration
> 3. Elaborate on transformation
> 
> Sorry but you can't make an esoteric claim, not explain yourself, then shout "MAYANS AND HINDU'S SAYS SO!" and expect any kind of... Anything.
> ...







> *This thread is filled with awareness raising images/information that you might consider having a look at.*
> *COMPLIMENTARY_NOTE:* Allow this to play in the background as you scroll through the museum of 2012Please stand by...for a rude awakening.
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> Eye of Horus, the Egyptian Sun God
> ...



Here you go.

----------


## Sornaensis

Failure, Grod. Failure.

I read it. All I see is... Pictures and words. No real meaning.

But  I am curious as to how the Mayan Calendar was converted into the Christian calendar, considering the fact that we lost a few years since Rome started using it.

----------


## Grod

> All I see is...  Pictures and words.



*View*
 2*:* the act of seeing or examining

*Read*
b*:* to learn from what one has seen or found in writing or printing

----------


## Sornaensis

And that is relevant how?

----------


## Grod

When you see a *word*, read it. When you see a *picture*, view it. 

I already explained the definitions, so you shouldn't have any problem there, I would think.

Apply those two meanings to the original post, and you should be set.

----------


## Sornaensis

Do you want to answer myt questions, aregue Jeff's point, or just dance around the thread and annoy me because you don't have a rebuttal or point?

----------


## Grod

I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Read the post. The answers are in there, which I tried to make as least cryptic as possible. I guess I should make it simpler.

*Read the post, the answers to your assumptions are in there.*

----------


## Man of Shred

Don't waste your time with seis... he's intent on causing shit here.

----------


## Cyclic13

A Seis post is about as open-minded and informative as a youtube comment.

Wait. That's giving him too much credit.

[sidenote: I dont think that lunar and solar eclipses happen so often, so all you'd need to do to match it up to the christian calendar is wait for one of them in conjunction with the lunar cycle and equinoxes and there ya go.]

Reposted for effect...





> What makes you so sure you're right? Fervent belief one way or the other is retarded...
> 
> The least you can do is err on the side of caution, and open yourself up to the different possibilities out there... The sun rising tomorrow isn't guaranteed or written in stone. The mayans believed our idea of time to be circular, and we have repeated the same process countless times. They thought by predicting the stars positions and seeing where things will be you could essentially see where you will be. Their pinpoint accuracy with the limited technology for their time is still astonishing to people. Where does your seemingly vast understanding of their culture (surely enough to draw those conclusions) come from?

----------


## Jeff777

Seismosaur lost my respect some time ago, so I'm not worried about what his post(s) say or an approval rating from the likes of him.  But...I would like to "reiterate" a few things:

1. I find the beliefs of advanced ancient civilizations fascinating
2. I have no intention of building a bomb shelter in my backyard.  :tongue2: 
3. I won't be cancelling my plans for 2013

----------


## Cyclic13

And now, some interesting art to soothe your minds...

----------


## Man of Shred

> And now, some interesting art to soothe your minds...




 Good stuff solskye! What the hell is that symbol in your sig. I seen that symbol in a dream recently on a window.

----------


## Cyclic13

The one in the center or the one on the outside?

The one in the center is a symbol a friend designed for our electronic music group, SolSkye. It even spells SolSkye in the flames if you look closely. It's supposed to represent the one flaming soul in the sky. Soul, Sole, Sol (Sun) Sky...

The one on the outside is Ouroboros. The snake biting it's own tail which represents infinity. I snagged that one off the internet and just superimposed our pic in the middle.

----------


## Man of Shred

yeah thanks. the one i saw was the middle. there wasn't a dragon or snake around it.

----------


## Cyclic13

hehe. You saw our band symbol then. Our friend must've done a good job designing it...

You're more than welcome to snag the pic, it has our name in it's design afterall...

the bigger version's center eye is trippy to stare at. It's like a meditation mandala.

----------


## Cyclic13

This basically just reiterates what I said 2 pages back in post #98... The synchronicity doesn't stop...

----------


## Cyclic13

*John Major Jenkins, Mayan Cosmogenesis 2012* 
Pt.1; Pt.2; Pt.3; Pt.4 (The interview is incomplete so be prepared for an abrupt ending  :Sad: )

John Major Jenkins is an independent researcher who has devoted himself to reconstructing ancient Mayan cosmology and philosophy. Since 1986, John has traveled to Mexico and Central America seven times. In 1990 he helped build a school in San Pedro, near Lake Atitlan in Guatemala. In 1994 he delivered relief supplies to a Quich&#233; Maya community in the Western highlands of Guatemala. Since beginning his odyssey of research and discovery with the Maya, John has authored dozens of articles and seven books.

As a visiting scholar, Jenkins has taught classes at The Institute of Maya Studies in Miami, The Maya Calendar Congress in Mexico, The Esalen Institute, Naropa University and many other venues both nationally and abroad. He has been interviewed on numerous radio and television shows. Last October, the Discovery Channel featured John's work on two episodes of the "Places of Mystery" series, which continue to be broadcast regularly on the Travel Channel.

John discussed Mayan cosmology and the original prophecy of 2012. He has made a number of trips to Mexico and Central America to study ancient Mayan culture first hand. While not a hi-tech civilization, they were able to perfect an "inner spiritual technology" that allowed them access to higher wisdom, he said, noting that their King would serve as kind of shaman who made vision journeys. 

The cycle-ending date of December 21st, 2012 is an "artifact of the Mayan calendrical system," said Jenkins, whose approach has been to reconstruct the original prophecy by examining relics such as a carved monument at Izapa. The date in 2012 points to a time when our sun will be in alignment with the center of the galaxy, and references to this alignment are encoded in numerous Mayan institutions and ceremonies, he shared. 

But Jenkins does not believe that the Mayans intended for 2012 to be viewed as a final ending, but rather a time of transformation and renewal. This rare "galactic midnight," or alignment occurs every 26,000 years and is like an opening conduit bringing more energy into our system, shaking things up in preparation for greater vibrations, he explained. 2012 is also a symbol for transcending time, which he believed the Mayans were able to do. 

December 29th, 2005

*2012 Jay Weidner* 
Pt.1; Pt.2; Pt.3; Pt.4; Pt.5; Pt.6; Pt.7; Pt.8; Pt.9; Pt.10; Pt.11

Jay Weidner is an author and filmmaker. From 1991 to 1995, Jay was the Public Affairs Director at KCMU-FM in Seattle. He also produced and hosted the weekly radio show Mind Over Matters. Jay has written articles for many periodicals and journals over the years. In 1996 and 1997, Jay produced and hosted the Awakening to Gaia conferences in Boulder, Colorado. These two conferences were designed to bring together many of the diverse scholars, authors and teachers interested in examining alternative historical and scientific theories. In 1997, Jay created and produced the alternative esoteric video catalogue named Explorations. 

From 1998 to 2000, Jay was the Video Development Director for Conscious Wave Productions in Boulder, Colorado. He also produced, wrote and directed the nationally viewed documentary for Conscious Wave titled, Earth Under Fire with Dr. Paul LaViolette. Since the year 2000, Jay has been the president of Sacred Mysteries Productions, a video production and distribution company. He is currently in production on a feature film called Secret Landscapes.

Weidner discussed 2012 and its connection to mysterious places such as the Denver Airport. The year 2012 may usher in the end of an age and time as we know it could end, he declared, noting that our sun is predicted to be particularly active at this time. 

The Mayan calendar which was based on days rather years, ends on Dec. 21, 2012. John Major Jenkins discovered that just at this time the Earth will be in galactic alignment with the center of the galaxy, he noted. For more, see Weidner's essay 2012 The Topology of Time. 

Evidence indicates that the Denver International Airport sits on top of a huge underground facility, with trains that connect to shelters in the mountains and possibly as far away as New Mexico, he stated. This airport is a "cathedral" of the New World Order, Weidner suggested, and its underground capacities could be employed by the elite in order to survive a calamity that occurs around 2012. The film 2012 The Odyssey, which Weidner participated in, takes a look at some of the strange murals at the airport that are seemingly sending out a message about a one-world government. 9-11, he added, may have been about developing a level of control in an ensuing catastrophe.

June 11th, 2007

----------


## Slick

> But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone



Nuff Said.

----------


## Cyclic13

This is an interesting documentary I stumbled across this weekend apparently done from the same guy who did Zeitgeist... Honestly, these are the only parts worth watching... Notice any similarities between any threads I made? Cymatics? Fractals? Hemi-Sync/Brain-Sync? Left/Right-brained thought? Intention?

Uhh... Can you say...Synchronicity?!?  ::shock:: 

Esoteric Agenda

----------


## LucidTrauma

> what do water molecules have to do w/2012???



I think this has to do more with the Buddha quote: "It is your mind that creates this world." The things he were feeling were translated through the water or ice molecules. If we all could learn to live in peace and total harmony, then the world would be a better place, and it'd probably treat us alot better.

----------


## Cyclic13

David Wilcock: The 2012 Enigma (CLICK PIC)



David Wilcock talks about pineal stimulation through DMT ingestion as a force feed operation. 
He goes further to draw the analogy between pineal calcification and a smudge on the forehead called the "mark of the beast". 
The question came to me of how to remove the contaminants and induce blood flow to this pine cone organ. 
Sound and vibration is certainly the answer! 
Sound through a "black hole" is the fastest phenomena in our reality, Faster than light speed.

What else can we do to remove the pineal plaque?
I feel oil would help in dissolving the crusty crud.
Probably hemp oil. That would explain why hemp production
was shut down, ( besides the competition to hydrocarbon as fuel ).
Hemp oil has been proven to reverse cancer.

David Wilcock stressed the pineal as the center of our compressed chakra system. 
I feel it is the heart that is the center. Compassion over reason.
Too much focus on the third eye and occult ritual needs to be compensated with tender emotion. 
Pluck the heart strings that are connected to the universal web. 
Granted the pineal is pound for pound the center of concentrated blood flow, but all blood flows through the heart. 
The egyptians weighed the heart against a feather, not the pineal. 

Edgar Cayce, Wilcock's preincarnation was a high ranking mason, a member of a hierarchical order - left brain dominant.
The right brain rules in holographic function. 
Left brain=square, right brain=circle. Masons square the circle - left brain dominance. 
In nature there are no squares, no 90 degree white man angles of insanity. 
It is time to circle the square!

----------


## Grod

Where are you, Jeff? :tongue2:

----------


## Cyclic13

The Mayan Calendar 2012 & Beyond - Full

----------


## Man of Shred

A full playlist Of David Wilckock on coast to coast AM talking about 2012. Also contains the "are you an ET soul" quiz.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oCETzDqST...x=0&playnext=1

----------


## Cyclic13



----------


## Scatterbrain

2012

galactic alignment

sun/ earth/ galactic center

...what?

----------


## Cyclic13

You again?...  ::wtf::

----------


## Scatterbrain

I do what I can.

----------


## Man of Shred

PT1.  

PT 2.

----------


## LucidDreamGod

> PT1.  
> 
> PT 2.



  I watched the whole thing, and it is very interesting to see all these peoples track records and all but really you have to wonder how the heck a computer program like the web bot works, I mean I have a logical mind and that really gets me as to how that thing might work on any basic general level.     And you have to wonder how the mayon calender's mathematic calculations could prodict that &quot;White skinned bearded gods would arrive from across the sea on March 5, 1519.  How could the I Ching predict wars and such if it where just a furtion telling devise, they really need to go into detail about makenna's findings more.    Also the program tends to say they accurately predicted this then show them (not always but it is probably apparent throughout) saying something vague about the people involved, something vague about their location and time period, and such  are tons upon tons of predictions about the worlds future it's easy to find some that point to a specific time period, there have already been many supposed dooms days, 2012 will probably be forgotten instantly after it is moderitly publicized near the date and the date passes.      I had to post in a thread like this for my 2012th post  :tongue2: , but I found your video ranma and just had to watch it, very interesting.

----------


## starfire

Thank You, Jeff & Solskye

----------


## Cyclic13

> Thank You, Jeff & Solskye



No problem... I just pass forward what I find interesting...

If nothing else... It's fun to imagine... 

Those that disagree... can get the ballsack...

(*Side View*)


Imagine one coin making one revolution around the cyclical rotating center as our star making it's galactic rotation around the black hole in the center referred to as the end of a age...

As it reaches the end of one age, or rotation, it aligns ever so slightly more with the center... and in doing so reaches closer to the center in it's obvious elliptical orbit... 

(*Bird's-eye View*)


However, from our skewed perspective within the rotation we don't notice a thing being off about our orbit since time/space bends to match our skewed view of it... or so we think...

All it takes is a simple look around you... 

Things just seemingly speed up to match our ever-changing perspective... and consciousness shifts and receives more bursts from the center as it reaches towards the singularity...

The ironic paradox of our technology in this age being, we initially created it to make our lives easier and take allow ourselves the "time" to relax and enjoy ourselves... 

When in turn, we have used that "time" to perpetually speed ourselves and lifestyles up to match the speed we can continually process things...

Like a coin spinning faster down the drain... Consciousness approaching singularity... Wheee

One can just prepare themselves mentally to be shot out the other side like a rocket to start the whole process over again... 




Circles circling cyclical circles of circles... within a circling cyclical vortical spiral... yay!

----------


## nitsuJ

*Mayan Prophecy:*
http://skepdic.com/maya.html




> The world will not end on 12-21-2012, at least not according to the Mayans, who knew about as much about our planet's future demise as Gordon-Michael Scallion, St. Malachy, Edgar Cayce, Zecharia Sitchin,or Nostradamus, namely, nothing. The Mayans had zero, zilch, nada, mix bá'al to say about the hoax planet Nibiru.
> 
> Mayan urban culture, known as the Classic Period, flourished from about 300 A.D. until around 900 A.D. in Mexico's Yucatán Peninsula and parts of Central America. During this period the Maya built temples and monuments, created numerous works of art and writings, continued their astronomical observations, and built a network of cities. These cities lay buried under jungle growth for centuries. One of the important discoveries from these ruins is that the Maya had several calendars. One is known as the Long Count calendar, which is reset to day 0 every 1,872,000 days, a period known as The Great Circle (Diamond 2005: 167). The next reset date, by some calculations, is December 21, 2012. Obviously, this calendar is of no interest to the Maya any longer, since their civilization collapsed over a thousand years ago. (Though there are people today who are the descendants of the Maya and the Mayan culture lives on through them.) Nevertheless, this date is of enormous interest to certain doomsday prophets and New Age astrologers, such as John Calleman, who are spreading the good news either that the Maya knew the date when the world would end or they knew the date when a New Age of Transformation would begin. (The Mayan glyphs and hieroglyphs aren't crystal clear about what the calendar means.) Too bad they couldn't predict their own collapse.
> 
> According to Jared Diamond,
> 
> _The famous Maya Long Count calendar begins on August 11, 3114 B.C.--just as our own calendar begins on January 1 of the first year of the Christian era....Presumably, the Maya...attached some significance to their own day zero, but we don't know what it was. (Diamond 2005: 167)_
> 
> There was no writing in the New World until 2,500 years after the Mayan year zero but there is evidence of agriculture in Mesoamerica from about the time of day zero on the Mayan calendar. This could be just a coincidence, since the areas where agriculture first emerged were not the areas where the Maya would eventually build their cities.
> ...



------------------------------------------------------------

*Poles Reversing Prophecy:*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012#Me...al_predictions




> Patrick Geryl predicts a pole reversal. This has happened many times in the past. Geryl also predicts that the Earth will start rotating in the opposite direction, although a geomagnetic reversal does not require the Earth to change its rotation direction. He does not explain from where the required energy will come. The Earth functions as a gigantic gyroscope. The energy required to rotate the poles would be immense.



------------------------------------------------------------

*Nostradamus:*
http://www.nostradamus.org/bio.php




> He settled down in 1547 in Salon-de-Provence, where he married a rich widow named Anne Ponsarde Gemelle and eventually had six children - three daughters and three sons. After a further visit to Italy, he began to move away from medicine and towards the occult. He wrote an almanac for 1550, for the first time Latinising his name to 'Nostradamus', and was so encouraged by its success that he decided to write one or more annually. Taken together, they are known to have contained at least 6338 prophecies (*most of them, in the event, failed predictions*), as well as at least 11 annual calendars, all of them starting on 1st January and not, as is sometimes supposed, in March. He then began his project of writing 1,000 quatrains, which form the supposed prophecies for which he is famous today. Feeling vulnerable to religious fanatics, however, he devised a method of obscuring his meaning by using "Virgilianised" syntax, word games and a mixture of languages such as Provençal, Greek, Latin and Italian. For technical reasons connected with their publication in three instalments, the last 58 quatrains of the seventh 'Century', or book of 100 verses, were never published.



Nostradamus didn't predict the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Centers.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nostradamus.asp

------------------------------------------------------------

*Bible Code:*
There's been many codes to fail, and you'll find some in the "Predictions that the end of the world would happen."





> Drosnin, in The Bible Code II, suggested the possibility of nuclear holocausts and the destruction of major cities by earthquakes in 2006, saying that "The dangers will peak in the Hebrew year 5766 (September 2005 - September 2006 in the modern calendar), the year that is most clearly encoded with both 'World War' and 'Atomic Holocaust'." Obviously, these events did not occur during the predicted time.
> 
> Drosnin, however, refrains from making concrete predictions, saying, "I don't think the code makes predictions. I think it reveals probabilities." Drosnin also said that "I think it might tell us all our possible futures. That appears to include a warning of a possible nuclear war."
> 
> 
> 2012 Predictions
> 
> comet large - stone-like / stony : object - sped / Tongue-like : Sun - whole earth / earth annihilated - smitten / stricken - smitten Planetary / wanderer : fragmentary : sixty mile - blunderbuss / scatter-gun / Crater : Canada : ultimate : terrifying : appalling : lethal / Modifier - mantle - axis - tilting - tipping : Speeded / Seismic - eradication - It will be crumbled / I will tear to pieces



------------------------------------------------------------

*2012 Explained - Why it shouldnt be feared*
http://www.dailycommonsense.com/2012...dnt-be-feared/

------------------------------------------------------------

*220 dates for the end of the world.*
http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

*Predictions that the end of the world would happen:*
By Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) and Paul
By secularists and Christians - historical review
prior to 1990
1990 to 1997
in 1998
in 1999
in 2000
in 2001
in 2002
in 2003
in 2004
in 2005
in 2006
between 2007 & 2010
after 2010
On or about 2012-DEC-21

------------------------------------------------------------

*Even more on the theoires:*
Killer Asteroid Will Miss
No Doomsday in 2012
No Planet X (a.k.a. Nibiru)
No Killer Solar Flare

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## Scatterbrain

Isn't it about time this thread got moved to the Beyond Dreaming section?

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## Man of Shred

> Isn't it about time this thread got moved to the Beyond Dreaming section?



 You guys better keep in mind there are specific rules on this forum to pay attention to.


From the rules section:




> When replying to someone in order to express your differing opinion, show respect and tolerance for that user; if you disagree with him or her, state why. Do not simply denounce the poster and ridicule his or her ideas. Keep in mind he or she likely believes with the same passion as you.Do not jump right in the middle of threads when you have absolutely nothing to contribute. Simply denouncing one's idea and adding nothing more accomplishes nothing.Do yourself a favour and STAY OUT of threads where you know you will not be able to control yourself: for example, if you believe very strongly in God, then for crying out loud stay out of a thread that says "Atheists only." Also, creators of threads should be able to limit a discussion to a particular audience (which should be stated in the title); respect that.

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## Scatterbrain

How did my post break any of those rules?

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## Jeff777

Imbeciles don't take a day off Ranma, Scatterbrain is only doing his job.

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## nitsuJ

> Imbeciles don't take a day off Ranma, Scatterbrain is only doing his job.







> Do yourself a favour and STAY OUT of threads where you know you will not be able to control yourself: for example, if you believe very strongly in God, then for crying out loud stay out of a thread that says "Atheists only." Also, creators of threads should be able to limit a discussion to a particular audience (which should be stated in the title); respect that.



._. k,
!|! thx,
|'| bai.

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## Jeff777

> ._. k,
> !|! thx,
> |'| bai.



Do YOURSELF a favor and read the Extended Discussion rules.  k thx bai...Jesus dude I replied like 1 minute ago.  Don't you go on dates or have a social life at all????  You're always online lol.  Ah well whatever, we needed someone to fill Seismosaur's place and you seem to fit the bill.

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## nitsuJ

> For the record, the Mayan prophecy is the only one that holds weight in my opinion.  And you or skepdic saying that the Mayan's said the world would in in 2012 is a complete bastardization of their prophecy.  Nowhere in their text did it directly or indirectly say that the world would end.  And as for nostrodamus, the bible and that other crap you posted...I'm not a fan.  I've studied the mayans in depth...I could wipe my ass with that other info you posted.



Lol?

I posted things that said the world isn't ending in 2012 according to the Mayans, can you not read properly?

The Mayans never prophesied the world was going to end in 2012. If you could read above a 3rd grade level you'd realize that's what my post said. I was debunking Nostradamus's bullshit predictions and the bible code predictions among others.

If you can't take getting beliefs debunked, feel free to leave.

EDIT: Yes, I doubt anyone is a fan of something that falsifies their "end of the world" stories.





> _"…when a calendar comes to the end of a cycle, it just rolls over into the next cycle. In our Western society, every year 31 December is followed, not by the End of the World, but by 1 January. So 13.0.0.0.0 in the Mayan calendar will be followed by 0.0.0.0.1 - or good-ol' 22 December 2012, with only a few shopping days left to Christmas."_ - Excerpt from Dr Karl's "Great Moments in Science".

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## nitsuJ

> Do YOURSELF a favor and read the Extended Discussion rules.  k thx bai...Jesus dude I replied like 1 minute ago.  Don't you go on dates or have a social life at all????  You're always online lol.  Ah well whatever, we needed someone to fill Seismosaur's place and you seem to fit the bill.



Considering it's not the weekend and it's 12:09A.M., there's not much to do. 






> *Do yourself a favour and STAY OUT of threads where you know you will not be able to control yourself*: for example, if you believe very strongly in God, then for crying out loud stay out of a thread that says "Atheists only." *Also, creators of threads should be able to limit a discussion to a particular audience (which should be stated in the title)*; respect that.

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## nitsuJ

> For the record, the Mayan prophecy is the only one that holds weight in my opinion.  And you or skepdic saying that the Mayan's said the world would in in 2012 is a complete bastardization of their prophecy.  Nowhere in their text did it directly or indirectly say that the world would end.  And as for nostrodamus, the bible and that other crap you posted...I'm not a fan.  I've studied the mayans in depth...I could wipe my ass with that other info you posted.



Just to show you once again, since you claim that skepdic said the Mayan prophecy said the world is ending in 2012.





> *The world will not end on 12-21-2012, at least not according to the Mayans*, who knew about as much about our planet's future demise as Gordon-Michael Scallion, St. Malachy, Edgar Cayce, Zecharia Sitchin,or Nostradamus, namely, nothing. The Mayans had zero, zilch, nada, mix bá'al to say about the hoax planet Nibiru.



Lolololol.

Hooked on Phonics.

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## Minervas Phoenix

> The Mayans never prophesied the world was going to end in 2012.



That's right. They didn't.

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## Invader

> The Mayans never prophesied the world was going to end in 2012.



Only that the fabric between Earth and their believed Netherworld would be no more. Don't take my word for it, I heard that one off of National Geographic (or was it Discovery? No, had to be NG.. I'm pretty sure). They claimed it came straight out of their holly book. I hadn't known that's what they believed, if it really was what they believed.

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## Scatterbrain

Jeff jumped to insults, what a surprise.  ::roll:: 

As it has been shown time and time again, the 2012 claims have no real evidence backing them up.

Keeping in mind the guidelines specific to this section:




> In addition, keep in mind the following:
> 
> - Religious topics only belong in the Religion/Spirituality forum; any threads belonging there will be moved there.
> 
> - Try not to make claims without substantiating them with facts or evidence.
> 
> - No preaching. Keep in mind this is a discussion forum, so topics should be discussed on their merits and not crammed down people's throats.
> 
> - Play fair--avoid insults and personal attacks.




This thread would be much better off in the Beyond Dreaming section, even more so seeing as many people don't like these beliefs to be criticized.

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## Minervas Phoenix

Criticize away. We got the cinema.

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## drewmandan

I love a good alien flick, but I know how to tell the difference between entertainment and reality.

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## Minervas Phoenix

> I love a good alien flick, but I know how to tell the difference between entertainment and reality.



If you think movies are used only for the purpose of superficial entertainment and serve no other sociocultural psychological functions of the collective perception. Then you actually can't tell the difference between what are aspects of reality at play and what is entertainment. As movies always contain both.

So the implication here (a predictable one at that) is that you are better than me for disregarding the subtle nature of cinema and it's part in our society. By stating I am confused about reality and fantasy because I do not submit to a lack of recognition on how it relates and emerged from our reality and what relationship it has to our future, present and past.

This insinuation has being said many times throughout history attacking people who have a wide array of awareness when they are drawing from the virtues of film and using it. A rich imagination does not equal a confused one. William Shakespeare said many things that are still beyond peoples comprehension. Not because he was lost in his own fantasy but because he was expressing wisdom in a theatrical way. Many have also used theater as a form of not only prophecy, but historical interpretation as well as future prediction and present revelations. 

Now I'm not saying that anything in that film in particular is real or not real. What I am defending is the right to use film as a legitimate form of communication and expression.

A simple mind says things are either entirely entertainment or entirely real leaving no room for any shades of grey or anything in between. This is the real incompetence of categorizing fantasy from reality and not your supposed blindness of ones comprehension who is in fact able to see beyond this simplistic black and white view. Someone who is able to more readily interpret things in a more sophisticated manner is not inferior to those with a more simplistic self righteous view. This is not their place to insinuate about what it means to tell the difference between fictional entertainment compared to degrees of reality expressed.

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## Cyclic13



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## Timothy Paradox

Let's try to change my DNA... MMmhhh I want...to be..... a God! Yes that's it! A god. MMh Doesn't work.

Is this guy serious?

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## Minervas Phoenix

*Because there is a war on for your mind.*

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## Timothy Paradox

> 



Omg that's hilarious! That nut got owned  ::D:

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## Minervas Phoenix



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## Scatterbrain

> Omg that's hilarious! That nut got owned



It's ironic that O'Reilly supports creationism though.

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## Jeff777

> It's ironic that O'Reilly supports creationism though.



How so?  Seemingly most of our bright political men and women do.  Why do you find him believing in creationism any more different or ironic than oh say...McCain, Palin, Obama and Biden?

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## Dreamworld

I respectably disagree with everything on the O.P. I don't believe in magic, or that Indians had special powers to figure out when the world was gonna end.. Perhaps after making a calander for 1000+ years they were probably like fuck it, lets just end the damn thing.. Not trying to argue here, but sorry all of your aren't going to die on 2012. I know there is a part of you saying its not going to happen.. Its called logic.

@ Jeff - Whats with the personal attacks on users? You seem to fill the place of samdreamer..

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## Jeff777

> I respectably disagree with everything on the O.P. I don't believe in magic, or that Indians had special powers to figure out when the world was gonna end.. Perhaps after making a calander for 1000+ years they were probably like fuck it, lets just end the damn thing.. Not trying to argue here, but sorry all of your aren't going to die on 2012. I know there is a part of you saying its not going to happen.. Its called logic.
> 
> @ Jeff - Whats with the personal attacks on users? You seem to fill the place of samdreamer..



I don't know who that is nor do I really care.  And thank you btw...for letting us all know your much awaited opinion.  I say that _respectively_.

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## Scatterbrain

> How so?  Seemingly most of our bright political men and women do.  Why do you find him believing in creationism any more different or ironic than oh say...McCain, Palin, Obama and Biden?



While they may be bright in politics, a belief in creationism demonstrates ignorance about decades of scientific research. I guess it says a lot about the grasp religion has onto the USA.

I find it ironic that O'Reilly easily criticizes a belief that's as flawed as one he openly endorses himself.

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## TransientOcclusion

I'll wait till 2013 to post my comment.

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## Euthanatos

> Let's try to change my DNA... MMmhhh I want...to be..... a God! Yes that's it! A god. MMh Doesn't work.
> 
> Is this guy serious?



The theory is that it would work but that you would have to not only believe it with that entire core of your being but that there would have to a collective unconscious recognition of this assertion.  In other words, you COULD do it but you'de be fighting 6 billion+ people who believe, with that very core of their being, that you cannot.

Furthermore something tells Dexter that you you did not believe this with the very core of your being which would invalidate this 'experiment'.  Like so many other false scientists of our day.  You need to understand the base premise of the theory & Hypothesis before you can make a logical redaction based on experimentation.  Furthermore Dexter think you contribute to those 6 billion masses of anti-belief.  YOU are the paradox.  Of course the only one prevented from ascension is you because reality has always had a space for leeway of argument against the established nature of its' existence.  Just study quantum physics.  It'll tell you that nothing is real.  Therefore you perception is more real than the material you percieve.  Consciousness being unquantifiable is necessarily universal.

Swim has always gotten a great kickout of the denial of 2012 by association.  You see,  because so many people have predicted the end of the world....and been wrong, this date must also be wrong.

A COMPLETE logical fallacy.  Besides, what is death when one studies these esoteric principles?  Change!  not an 'end' so to speak but both an 'end' and the necessary converse, a 'beginning'!!!!

It may be the end of the world AS WE KNOW IT.  ZOMG! RUN TO THE HILLS!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!



White man came across the sea
He brought us pain and misery
He killed our tribes, he killed our creed
He took our game for his own need

Excerpted from Iron Maiden's 'Run to the Hills'

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## Timothy Paradox

Now now, don't jump to conclusions. 
I never said that I think this is IMPOSSIBLE. That would be silly.
Your lack of belief in me is what is holding you back.
If this 2012 stuff turns out to be real then you will find no happier person than me.

Besides, I do not believe in any "endings of worlds".

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## Euthanatos

> While they may be bright in politics, a belief in creationism demonstrates ignorance about decades of scientific research. I guess it says a lot about the grasp religion has onto the USA.
> 
> I find it ironic that O'Reilly easily criticizes a belief that's as flawed as one he openly endorses himself.



Actually, look at the scientific evidence.  A belief in Evolution is just that, a Belief.  It takes faith because there are no facts.  You've been brainwashed into believing what other people call facts, indeed are just that.  Go look at all this so-called evidence.  When logical fallacies begin to emerge, don't blame me for waking you up.  Don't go become some religious fanatic either, that's just the opposite side of the same coin.

In the words of Stephen Hawking, "We don't know..."  Funny that goes on to assert that evolution is just 'extremely probable'.  Probable enough to call it a fact despite that fact that it isn't.  And I'm the deluded one?  How about we created ourselves in the future by our consciousness reaching back to the beginning of time and pulling on that great possibility 'the big bang' to cool and settle in the inevitable pattern that results in our existence.

Hey, it's a nice...THEORY.  And it has about as much real evidence as both creation and evolution:NONE.

You want to base all of your belief on fact?  You will unpon logical observation of all assertions and reasearch conclude that nothing exists.  The only scientificly verifiable truth from within the perspective of your little yellow submarine is that you percieve something but that when you try to quantify it...it disappears.  Hence the ONLY definative fact you can truly observe is that your perception is real.  Furthermore, YOU are the only one who can make this observation.  No one else can truly verify this fact and it is not a fact to anyone but yourself.  THAT IS LOGIC.

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## Euthanatos

> Now now, don't jump to conclusions. 
> I never said that I think this is IMPOSSIBLE. That would be silly.
> Your lack of belief in me is what is holding you back.
> If this 2012 stuff turns out to be real then you will find no happier person than me.
> 
> Besides, I do not believe in any "endings of worlds".



Possiblity is a great place to start.  You lose when you deny it.  And you are entirely correct actually.  Dexter has difficulty believing in many others.  it is his major paradigm failing.  He wishes to find more faith in others able to percieve the quickening and getting ready for ascension.  Furthermore, what is 'this 2012 stuff'?

Personally, Dexter thinks it's complete bullshit, a few days off, a few years off, representative of nothing more than one step in a series of changes being made in, on and about times near that date.  dec 21 2012 will probably pass with no major awareness shits in anyone not predisposed to recieve them.  The real shit will start happening a bit later.

Like JC said....no one will know the time of his coming.  Dexter thinks that date is put there by evil astral entities trying to fuck up the scheme of of shit.  So when nothing happens on that date...millions of idiotic fanatics will lose faith in something that was never real to begin with.  Like new age, these '2012ers'  are a victim of the same 'group think' they criticize.

It's called an ego trap.  Once you know the truth, you can safely bet you are wrong.  The Tao that can be named is not the true Tao.  Naming is the origin of all things.  By focusing on the result as the purpose of ones actions one enters into delusion.  One must do things wholly in the act themselves with no regard for the result else the product is corrupted by design.  The ends must be the same as and indiscernible from the means to be pure.

Dexter would like to point out if is one is interested in violating the laws of reality one would do well to maintain good physical health especially having lots of vitamins and amino acids so the DNA has plenty of chemical constituents with which to modify itself.  Furthermore, start small.  One must needs walk before running.  Crawl before walking.  Baby steps.  Reinforcement by minor success strengthens a muscle previously unused.  It's like waking up froma  coma...you need physical therapy.  Start by trying to using crutches.  There are a lot of new age tools that can work properly for this end furthermore that have the added bonus of being cooindental effects based on the superstition of a larger number of people reinforcing the belief that you can do it.  once one developes a large muscle, one can start 'blowing shit up with their mind.'  I loved that guy on the movie accept.

'I want to study...how to blow shit up with my MIND!'

----------


## Timothy Paradox

> Possiblity is a great place to start.  You lose when you deny it.  And you are entirely correct actually.  Dexter has difficulty believing in many others.  it is his major paradigm failing.  He wishes to find more faith in others able to percieve the quickening and getting ready for ascension.  Furthermore, what is 'this 2012 stuff'?
> 
> Personally, Dexter thinks it's complete bullshit, a few days off, a few years off, representative of nothing more than one step in a series of changes being made in, on and about times near that date.  dec 21 2012 will probably pass with no major awareness shits in anyone not predisposed to recieve them.  The real shit will start happening a bit later.
> 
> Like JC said....no one will know the time of his coming.  Dexter thinks that date is put there by evil astral entities trying to fuck up the scheme of of shit.  So when nothing happens on that date...millions of idiotic fanatics will lose faith in something that was never real to begin with.  Like new age, these '2012ers'  are a victim of the same 'group think' they criticize.
> 
> It's called an ego trap.  Once you know the truth, you can safely bet you are wrong.  The Tao that can be named is not the true Tao.  Naming is the origin of all things.  By focusing on the result as the purpose of ones actions one enters into delusion.  One must do things wholly in the act themselves with no regard for the result else the product is corrupted by design.



Why did you repace the "I" in my quote by "Dexter"?

----------


## Scatterbrain

> Actually, look at the scientific evidence.  A belief in Evolution is just that, a Belief.  It takes faith because there are no facts.  You've been brainwashed into believing what other people call facts, indeed are just that.



Refute 100 years of science or get the fuck out.

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## Euthanatos

> Why did you repace the "I" in my quote by "Dexter"?



AHAHAHA!!!!!! no way!  Dexter will fix that!  He goes back and edits his post for grammatical errors frequently....he saw and I an went to fix it...probably wholly unaware of what he was editing.  Dexter needs another cup of tea... ::roll::  :boogie:  ::lol::  :Oops:  ::lol::

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## Timothy Paradox

> AHAHAHA!!!!!! no way!  Dexter will fix that!  He goes back and edits his post for grammatical errors frequently....he saw and I an went to fix it...probably wholly unaware of what he was editing.  Dexter needs another cup of tea...



Timothy Paradox is happy. Timothy Paradox sometimes makes errors too, but He usually fixes them, fortunately.

----------


## Euthanatos

> Refute 100 years of science or get the fuck out.



It's a statement about perception.  Dexter will go about this project but you need to understand that mountains of so-called 'evidence' that can be riddled with logical fallacies.  Dexter has seen enough to convince him both sides of the evolution/creation debate are bullshit but hasn't spent the time gathering the arguments and making them cohesive.  Give him some time.  He will make an effort on this endeavor and post in a new thread.

Just as a case in point.  There are 'mountains' of falsified 'evidence' concerning Marijuana.  If you know anything about the truth of Marijuana you understand that scientists are not science in and of itself.  They are human and use their paperweight credibility to substantiate all sorts of bogus shit.  Remember when nearly 20,000 doctors reccomended that you smoke Luckies? Or dentists reccomended you smoke Viceroys?







Case in point towards that Cash convinces many people to say anything.

Winston Churchill once remarked that A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on.

Adolf Hilter remarked that it is far easier to tell a big lie than a small one.

None of this refutes Evolution, but it does give you a reason to be patient while Dexter constructs a cohesive, documented argument with reference.  Dexter loves good intellectual and logical debate!

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## Timothy Paradox

> Dexter loves good intellectual and logical debate!



Great! So does Timothy Paradox!

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## Scatterbrain

Attempt at refutation failed.

And who the hell is Dexter?


If you mean this guy...

...he's a man of science.

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## Xei

> Actually, look at the scientific evidence. A belief in Evolution is just that, a Belief. It takes faith because there are no facts. You've been brainwashed into believing what other people call facts, indeed are just that.



I feel very embarassed for you.

----------


## spockman

Why refute evolution anyway? (If this argument does not appply to you, I apologize. But the vast majority of non-evolutionists I've met are fundamental Judao Christians.) Go back to the Hebrew and you wont hear about a 7 day creation. The word 'yom' can mean day, age, or undefined time period. There are a million more Biblical reasons to support this and the possibility of evolution in a Biblical context and there are many more scientific reasons. Never let your religion blind you from truth. Christianity or Judaism need not conflict with science or cloud your eyes and slow progress, brother.

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## Jeff777

Bye bye thread.

----------

