# Sleep and Dreams > Beyond Dreaming >  >  Difference between Astral projection and Lucid dream

## Terrin

I had a really really vivid dream brought on by the WILD technique.. when i explained the dream to my friend he insisted i had AP.. But what is the difference? How would i know which is which? This seemed a lot like a dream.. the thing is i woke up in my room or i opened my eyes in my room (in the dream) and i never looked back to see if my body was on my bed.. is that what astral projection is?

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## Dreamer95

I've been wondering about this too actually, I've herd people talk about lucid dreaming and AP'ing, it always sounds like the same thing. I think you can get to AP through LD too, or so i've herd, ofcourse im just a noob  :tongue2:

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## angie746

Hi Terrin, i had a faulse awakening the other night and i also didnt look to see if my body was on the bed but i was wandering the same question, how can you tell the difference...i have read some stuff on the web but i still cant see what the difference is, can any one that has had an OBE and lucid dream please explain the difference  :smiley:

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## saltyseedog

Welllll. A dream is on the dream plane. the experience is manifested by you subconciously or conciously. On the astral plane you are viewing things on the physical plane. If it feels like a dream its a dream most likely. Does that make it any clearer for you????

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## angie746

OK so i can see what your saying but lol.... when i have a faulse awakening and it feels very real and im in my own room how could i tell the difference then, they say in OBE things can be a little fuzzy and blurred the first trime just like in a faulse awakening..sorry but this subject does my head in LMAO  :smiley:   ::shock::

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## Terrin

> Welllll. A dream is on the dream plane. the experience is manifested by you subconciously or conciously. On the astral plane you are viewing things on the physical plane. If it feels like a dream its a dream most likely. Does that make it any clearer for you????



ok.. but thats the thing.. everything i saw was exactly the same as in real life.. nothing seemed obscure.. it seemed as if i had just left my body.. how can i tell if i am in the physical plane or the dream plane? it seemed like a dream so maybe it was.. but if it was then it was the most realistic dream i have.. ever had.. has anyone every AP'd so i can do a comparison?

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## saltyseedog

Well your subconscious can recreate your environment exactly the way it is. Dreams can be extremely vivid and real. when you astral project though you are present in your astral body. It feels a lot different from being in a dream. You can feel the presence that you normally feel in waking life in your body, but you are like outside of your body. the feeling of it is way different. Your environment in the physical world has a much different feeling than the environment in your dreams probably has. The energy feels different. the presence of everything feels different. Your dreams normally feel like whats going on inside of you. the objects or life in the physical world has different feeling energy than whats going on inside of you. So it will probably feel different to be in a dream then when you astral project.

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## angie746

OK lets see if this helps:

Definitions

Lucid dreaming occurs when you are dreaming and are aware that you are in fact dreaming.  Once you become lucid (aware) in your dream, you can control all of the dream characters, albeit with some practice.  You can fly in a lucid dream, go out with Brad Pitt, go hang gliding, or even shape shift into a cat and see what that’s like.  Knock yourself out (you can even do that!).  You’re only limited by your imagination.

Astral projection, or out of body experiences, occur when your soul or consciousness leaves your body and enters a realm known as the astral plane.  This is not the dream plane.  This is an entirely different place, and it’s definitely not Kansas!

Comparison

Let’s compare lucid dreaming and astral projection so that you’ll see how distinctly separate these two experiences are.

In lucid dreaming:
 •You are asleep
 •Your experience is a dream
 •Your location is whereever you wish it to be (desert, ocean, future, past, mom’s house, etc.)
 •Your consciousness is still inside your body
 •You can control the environment and characters
 •When the experience is over, you simply wake up

In astral projection:
 •You awaken, then you project
 •Your experience is real
 •Your experience begins in your bedroom, or wherever your body is
 •Your consciousness is outside of your body, and your body is left with none
 •You can manipulate your environment in the astral realm (somewhat), but you cannot control the actions of the inhabitants of the astral plane.
 •When the experience is over, you return to your body and merge your consciousness back into it

Do you have to know how to lucid dream in order to astral project?

No.  You could potentially learn astral projection without ever learning lucid dreaming.  There are some people who can simply lay down on a couch and in a couple of minutes totally separate out of their body.  It’s difficult, but possible.  The skill of being able to project your consciousness out of your body is something that can be practiced to a point where you could potentially leave your body while dining at a restaurant or sitting in a movie theater.  However, I can definitely say that being an accomplished lucid dreamer will help you learn astral projection.

I recall one experience where I laid down on my bed to take an afternoon nap and immediately, instantly, went out of body.  I literally thought I had died because it was the first time I astral projected from a totally awake, not-coming-out-of-sleep state.  I stood there looking down at my body thinking, “Holy hell-in-a-handbasket, Batman!  What just happened?”  It was trippy and unnerving and I just got right back into my body.  Fear of death will do that to you.

How can we use the skill of lucid dreaming to facilitate an astral experience?

Mastering the art of lucid dreaming comes with a great side effect.  You learn how to wake your mind up while keeping your body asleep.  And that is a skill you need for conscious astral projection.  In order to separate out your consciousness from its shell – your body – you need to learn how to move your consciousness out of your body and into your astral vehicle, as it’s called.  Your astral vehicle is simply your astral body.  Think of it like putting your consciousness into a ghostly body.  It’s not quite that simple, but it will do for now.  So once you’ve become a master at keeping your body asleep while your mind is totally awake and conscious, you’re halfway there.

So how does astral projection take place?

The best and easiest way to learn how to astral project is to learn lucid dreaming first.  Listen to my podcast for tips on how to do that.  What you want to do is end your lucid dream with the intent to astral project.  As you wake up, you’ll notice your body is totally paralyzed for a few moments.  This is to prevent you from acting out your dream.  In this state, you want to raise your vibration (you might hear a high-pitched whine or feel a buzzing in your body), and then stretch your astral body out of your physical body.  It will feel like you’re moving your physical body.  It’s supposed to!!  This is because you are leaving your body – all of you is leaving your body – and so it will feel like you are simply stretching out and standing up.  But when you look down, you’ll see your body still lying on the bed. 

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking they simply cast their awareness outside of their body and experience a dual consciousness, or imagine they are getting up out of their body. No.  When you successfully leave your body, it will feel like all of you is standing up while your body is still lying on your bed.  You will not feel like you’re still lying in bed.  You will not feel like you’re dreaming.  You will literally feel like you got out of bed and are standing beside it.  You will look down at your body and recognize it but you will not feel your arms lying on the covers, you will not feel your head on the pillow.  You will only see it.  You may feel a pull or tug, however.  This is your astral cord trying to get you back into your body where you feel safe, because let me tell you, the first dozen times you go astral you will want to get back into your body right quick!!  Get as far away from your body as fast as you can and the tugging sensation will dissipate rapidly.  When you’re ready to go back to your body, just think about it and your cord will snap you back.  If you get into any trouble out there, call for the angels or your spirit guides to help you.  They’ll get you back where you belong.

Other tidbits you need to know

Sometimes I will be having a lucid dream followed by a false awakening where I will dream that I am astral projecting.  That’s not an astral projection.  Still a dream.  If Brad Pitt shows up in your astral experience, you’re just dreaming.  Sometimes I will actually begin to have an astral experience but not make it fully out of my body.  So frustrating.  If my will is not strong enough to get out of my body, I will often snap into a lucid dream very quickly.  Not astral, but still a cool experience. 

Sometimes people successfully go astral but don’t leave their body!  What a waste of a great experience.  In this case you vibrate your frequency high enough to get out but you don’t actually stretch out of your body and go anywhere.  I’ve done this many, many times.  You are in an astral state, you are plugged in to the astral realm, but you simply aren’t going anywhere.  In this state, you may attract the attention of some entities who may not be very nice, who will come and look at you, or talk to you, or try to suck your energy away.  I wouldn’t let them.  

In still other cases, there are beings who can separate your astral body from your corporeal body for you.  Some of them are nice, and others are not so nice.  If you have friends who are good at astral projection, they can come and encourage you to leave your body.  This is so very tricky and requires some precision timing, but it can be done if you’re all really serious about it.   :smiley:

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## saltyseedog

Yes and no kind of.... Well maybe not no its just I feel that guide is a little misleading. The astral plane is a plane that is basically just above the physical plane. You view and even interact energetically with with the physical plane. The dream plane is like all your thoughts emotions and everything going on inside of you being manifested in a symbolic experience. You can dream anything. so you can have dreams obviously where you leave your body and float around or whatever. that doesn't mean your on the astral plane. When you astral project. You are outside of your body viewing things. It is possible to be present viewing things on the astral plane without having a full blown obe. Really if you want this, this is what it requires: Intention. If you want to obe. or even view things on the astral plane without completely leaving your body. it requires intention. So if you want to astral project. Do what you would do to WILD but focus on the intention of astral projecting. So what you can do is just wake yourself in the middle of the night and go back to sleep but hold onto your intent of astral projecting. Astral projection can be really intense in my experience and it did scare the first maybe 10 times I did it. You really feel like you are outside of your body like a ghost. It is weird. Don't doubt yourself in doing it either. Its not hard. You probably have obes every once and a while naturally although you don't remember. So don't doubt yourself. Astral projecting and lucid dreaming is only as hard as you make it. Just be confident.

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## zhineTech

this is a hotly debated topic. many dreamers / researchers / people do not believe you actually leave your physical body. despite this there is are volumes of esoteric literature on it, and many people claim to have experienced other planes as well. i have had a few experiences like an OBE, where i have pulled myself out of my body, and i can say they are at least slightly different than your average lucid dream. 

i however believe they are basically like an LD where your focus is on your body and your consciousness is active within a specific range. i also believe that there is not a clear distinction, it's more of a continuum, with non-lucid dreams on one side and OBEs on the other.

but no one can say for sure.

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## Dreamer95

So.. An LD is inside your head.. And an AP is outside your head ?  ::huh:: 
Sounds pretty interesting though

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## Terrin

wowwwwwwwwww!! thanks a lot guys.. I think i have it.. i'm still pretty new to LD but i'm catching on quick i've had 2 in 1 week i wanted to step up to astral projection and i didn't even know that LD'ing was a stepping stone.. you all have been every helpful! "holy crap batman!" that was funny.. I can't wait to become more of an experienced LD'er so i can practice AP'ing.. once again thanks a lot guys!

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## MadMonkey

I really like what both angie746 and zhineTech said but you have to remember. Astral Projection is not yet proven per say and many people don't believe in it. It may be different than a lucid but some people believe it is just an illusion and still all in your head. I myself don't know what I believe about the subject yet.

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## stprue

It is not the same thing!

You can!

We are all noobs!

ok sorry for the quick post but here is my limited experience on the difference between the LD and AP:

The AP when reality checking your hands melt.  When LD they look weird but dont melt... you are at a much deeper at AP (faster phase/frequency of brainwaves) level of thinking when in both but from my 1 experience you feel much more there in reality.

this is phase shift.  your brain waves are cycling differently then normal reality.





> Hi Terrin, i had a faulse awakening the other night and i also didnt look to see if my body was on the bed but i was wandering the same question, how can you tell the difference...i have read some stuff on the web but i still cant see what the difference is, can any one that has had an OBE and lucid dream please explain the difference



this is phase shift. your brain waves are cycling differently then normal reality.

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## Whiskee

From my (limited) experience, I'm confident OBEs are just lucid dreams. They feel very different because you end up there in a different way.

You are not becoming lucid (DILD) in a world made out of your *fantasy*, neither you are creating one by visualizing it (playing with hypnagogics during WILDs).
What you are doing is building a new world out of your *short-term memory*, and that's why they are so defined, realistic, yet respectful of laws of physics.
The bond with your body is still very strong because your conscious mind knows where the whole experience started and refuses to accept the separation.
But if you succeed, you have just created 5 new senses and that's the reason they are SO vivid.

I may be wrong though, I'm genuinely curious to read theories about a different "plane" because that would be awesome.
What unexplainable fact would suggest that this is not, in fact, a dream?  ::o:

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## dreamcatcher81

Below is a quote from energyreality.com its a great resource for understanding astral projections. namaste.

Astral/Emotional consciousness is primarily awakened through the stimulation of desire. 

"Awareness of the Astral Universe is awakened by meditation, psychic development techniques, out of body (astral) travel techniques, shamanic practices, *lucid dreaming,* drugs - especially psychedelics, certain pranayama practices, certain types of trauma, biochemical imbalances, and certain types of energetic stimulation."

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## concusion

the difference is, astral projection is not a lucid dream, because you think you are astral projecting, which is really just a DREAM about astral projecting.  I dare anyone who thinks they are astral projecting to stop and do some reality checks turn lucid and realize this fact.

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## Whiskee

So, appearently nobody can tell why they don't think APs are just a kind of lucid dreams but believe in this "astral plane" instead?
I mean, we are not talking about some religion that requires faith. We CAN explain them using lucid dreams, am I missing something here?

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## WhatsReal

Guess I will throw in my thoughts...

I feel lucid dreams and astral projection to be the same thing. I'm not a pro but I have noticed that when I project out of body consciously and look around my room I see dream signs, like the room being a different color and pictures on the wall are different. I see many things like that so it can't be that i am in a reality reflecting setting. It must be a dream. I have done the playing card trick except with a random word on paper.. The word has never matched in the AP to what it says in real life. Also in APdmt body does not feel any different than It does in a lucid dream. Someone posted above that your hands will melt when you are projecting, I have not had this happen either. My hands appear deformed in wierd ways just as they do in lucid dreams. I think astral projection and OBE to be a trick of the mind.. Just a unique kind of WILD. AP always seems so real like I am truly out of body but when I wake it's clear to me it's also a dream.

Things that appear the same in both AP and LD
-having a physical body
-thought provoked reality
-dream signs
-Reality checks have the same outcome
-day and night are accurate to waking life
-commands/affirmations have same outcome
-stabalizing is the same

These may not be "real" experiences but I am a believer of going beyond the dream (astral planes, other demensions) whatever you want to call it. The last LD I had I made the affirmation that I was beyond the dream and in the astral planes. A force then pulled me to space and into some type of grid. I then fell into a city
that was beyond my imagination. You can go beyong the dream it doesn't matter if your AP OBE or LDing so don't worry about what your doing... Just do it

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## zhineTech

there are whole subcultures built around esoteric ideas like magic, dimensions, and astral travel. people tend to think "astral travel" is more "real" and "spiritual" and all that.

having said that, my experiences "separating" from my body into a more "OBE" like world always seem quite a bit different from "normal" lucid dreams. but i agree with what someone said above about the difference is how you got there.

also, people will buy more incense  :wink2:

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## Terrin

> These may not be "real" experiences but I am a believer of going beyond the dream (astral planes, other demensions) whatever you want to call it. The last LD I had I made the affirmation that I was beyond the dream and in the astral planes. A force then pulled me to space and into some type of grid. I then fell into a city
> that was beyond my imagination. You can go beyong the dream it doesn't matter if your AP OBE or LDing so don't worry about what your doing... Just do it



one of the best explanations thanks man.. my waking life is kind of getting in the way of my dream time smh.. had about two weeks off and now i'm having a hard time with DR but thanks again I will "just do it" lol NIKE lol

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## WhatsReal

I love how you say waking life is getting in your way. I feel the same. I don't want to be buisy with bullshit I just want to Lucid dream. I know what's out here... I don't care,I want to know what's in there.

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## Terrin

exactly!  :Sad:  I was making so much progress.. now its work,worry,stress.. meditation helps sometimes.. and i see you have 22 wilds very cool.. do you have any advice for me?

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## netra

Hi Angie, my experience is that several time I came out of my feet, my 3rd eye or rolled out of my body but even if I ended up in my room everything was still kind of dark around, and only one time I looked at my real body and the transition wasn't as noisy and as strange as many people say, and even if I felt naked and unsettled  I was able to feel ok with it after few minutes from my awake, so I guess in those cases I was still dreaming to Astral Project, a rehearsal in few words!
Another time I felt like I was getting ripped out of my physical body, almost like coming out of my shell or cocoon, it was strange almost painful and I felt really naked like never before. The funny thing is that I also felt that I was not only coming out of something but also at the same time going and being part of the external world that was around this cocoon. It was like cutting from one reality into another reality in which everything was connected like an alive 3D painting around me. Better than this I can't explain it!  :smiley:  It felt more real than anything else. 
My point and question is ...I guess when one is really astral projecting, "Holy hell-in-a-hand-basket, Batman!" to quote Angie, really knows it. It's not an experience after which you can easily stand up like nothing happened! Right Angie?
So my question to you Angie is how do you "Holy hell-in-a-hand-basket, Batman!" go through it consciously knowing or sensing how this experience is so close to death?
Do you have some personal tips that can help me to go through it with a more relaxed approach?
Thanks Angie

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## Purebred

AP/OBE = Entering "that world" via seperating from your body (usually at the REM period)

LD = Entering "that world" via becomign counscious in a dream (usually at the REM period).

That's all there is to know.

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## netra

Hi Purebred, was your post referred to me? 
I checked your video and it's wonderful, you are a great musician, that song was so, I have no words.... I was thinking you could even do a version of your song with hemi-sync sound incorporated in it, maybe with the usual basic lower sound in the beginning and a then with a more intense one at the end and sell it as a lucid dream music. the usual hemi-sync musics out in the market are so boring and pale and with no soul in it.
Even if I loved your music your comment sounded a little too simplistic to me but I don't know if it's because you see it more like a jumping off the cliff experience and your are saying think less and act more or maybe because you haven't yet had a deep experience in both fields. From my side I can speak about LD because I had lots of them but about AP I have to just shut up and listen because I am still a newbie. 
Keep up the great music and dreams

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## Purebred

I have experienced both of those things and not once. If you wake up and you think that you are in "that world", but you know, that if you move you will wake up, there is no other way of standing up - you have to seperate. People call this OBE/AP. if you catch yourself in "that world", but you already can move freely, it's LD. So it's THE SAME THING.

Don't agree with me? Prove me I'm wrong. tell, what is the difference between LD and AP/OBE?

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## Whiskee

You call them "astral projections" when you believe in all the paranormal stuff that comes with the existence of the astral plane.
Otherwise they are OBEs, which are a family of lucid dreams. Astral projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can also read this: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/dream-...stance-117728/

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## netra

I kind of agree with whiskee, when you astral project which I barely did once I felt something different from an OBE? (if OBE is an incredibly vivid lucid dream in which you wake up into your room next to your body). If that is an OBE so  I had many OBE and they felt closer to a lucid dream and to an astral projection since I showed up next to my body, they were incredibly lucid but yet not as intense as the feeling of being skinned out of your physical body from a wake state (I was into a deep relaxation, not a dream). Maybe my experience was a little too dramatic and that can be different in others, but what I want to say is that, what Angie well expressed with her batman comment, when you astral project you will remember it on your skin, it's not a joke, at least not for me, it ' a life changing experience, can also be very spiritual for some and  like Whiskee mentioned, it's about paranormal stuff. At the end we try to give names to things that cannot be explained well in words. Ours are only interpretations of something so personal and subjective that maybe won't ever be the same everybody else. If anyone have other thoughts on the topic it would be nice to hear other points of view.  :smiley:

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## Heimdall

I understand the differences in Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming but the techniques seem to be extremely similar or the same for the most part.  How are you sure you are not doing one while trying to do the other?  Could you mistakenly Astral Project while trying to WILD?

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## Whiskee

If you visualize your dream scenario while WILDing, then you'll most likely end up in a LD.
If you don't, and passively wait for SP to stabilize, then you will separate from your body (OBE).
"Astral projection" is the definition people who believe in the astral plane give to OBEs.

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## netra

Heimdall, that's a good question. In my opinion, that will depend a lot from how sensitive you are to astral project. 
My case is that I am not. I love to be in my body and popping out of it it's like being skinned alive, so I have to work really hard to AP. 
I have to do lots of meditation and mostly I have to feel very comfortable in my body before I can AP. 
So for people like me who cling tightly to their bodies it's essential to do exercises and meditations to release tensions before the magical moment (for me it's around 8am) in which the gravity pulls the ethereal body (dream body) into the brain to start the LD. If your body is relaxed and the energy flow from within is without ethereal blocks then from your ethereal body one can easily (not really for me) come out into the astral real with an astral body. 
However, everybody is different and some might not have such a tight connection with their physical body and might have very strong vortex/portal into the astral realm through some parts of their bodies, like a 3rd eye, feet or the navel, for instance, then in that case the shooting out into the astral body can happen instantaneously and maybe even with little meditation before. 
This could depend on how much you have worked on those parts of the body in your past lives (but that is something that cannot be explained or demonstrated so it remains a hypothesis).
So the first important thing to do, in my opinion, is to be very certain of what we really want, and strengthen that certainty into our mind, even repeat it before going to bed, and then go in with horse blinkers towards what we really want.
So Heimdall, just ask to yourself what you really want and be focused on that on the fun and the joy you will have receiving what you really want. Be the master of yourself.

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## WhatsReal

> I understand the differences in Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming but the techniques seem to be extremely similar or the same for the most part.  How are you sure you are not doing one while trying to do the other?  Could you mistakenly Astral Project while trying to WILD?



Yes, This is what happened to me. I was trying to learn how to WILD and giving it all my attention. About two weeks in I had my first wild result and it was pure OBE style lucid dream. 

As someone above me said, if you visualize the dream it kinda just forms in front of you and you merge with the image. If you just surrender to the vibration (wich is beutifull in itself) you will leave your body OBE style.

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## geldenszenes69

Angie,  Wow you are right on the money with your description, this clears up a lot of questions I had just in your single post, I am also a AP guy/Lucid dreamer, pretty new to it all, but I love that I have this ability.  I am trying to master OOBE, but you are right about when it happens it can be very scary, for instance my first OOBE was when I had passed out after one of my sons football games (not from drugs or alcohol) just fainted technically and I was looking down at myself as everyone was huddled over me, when I got back into my body I woke up with Paramedics and everyone taking care of me.   That was a very rough experience, yet now I am totally addicted to trying to OOBE, I have found that when I begin my normal OOBE's I have a few techniques, I eat a bowl of cereal before bed, yes eating does make us dream and gives us fuel, I also rub my eyelids while shut until everything gets bright and then watch the show, this is more of a warm up for me.  I say over and over, I will remember this dream I will have....and that usually starts the Lucid dream for me.  When I know I am dreaming, I tell myself to wake up, but not to open my eyes and then I feel my soul leaving through the small of my back, yes it is very different from Lucid dreaming, but it seems to be part of the pre process to OOBE's.  Well that's pretty much it.  My first few experiences were exhausting, Oh another thing you have to tell yourself or your subconscious is to not be afraid, I have seen some pretty bizarre characters while out of body.  Now here is a really scary experience that I can relate to what you said in your post; Just recently I was driving back to Colorado from Vegas and we (the Mrs and I) left very early in the morning 1 a.m. and I hadn't had any sleep prior, we just wanted to get home to our kiddos, while driving I got real tired and kept disciplining myself to stay awake.  I stopped and got an energy drink and coffee and that made me wide awake, but here is where it got weird, I started listening to the hum off my tires, one out of balance and I guess the frequency of it started me into an OOBE WHILE WIDE AWAKE!  Ouch, I am driving on the highway at 80 miles an hour and all of a sudden I am in the cab of a car in front of us and I look back and see us driving behind these folks.  I tried like hell to get back, but for some reason I couldn't, my wife was asleep in the passenger seat and then after yelling at myself albeit you can't really hear anything voice wise from your own Astral body, I shot back into my body and was looking out through my physical eyes.  I was like man if I would have stayed away any longer I would have wrecked and killed us both.  So there are some hazards to this just like you said.  Anyhow, love your posting, thanks so much and happy Astral travels to you.

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## EbbTide000

> Angie,  
> 
> Wow you are right on the money with your description, this clears up a lot of questions I had just in your single post, I am also a AP guy/Lucid dreamer, pretty new to it all, but I love that I have this ability.  
> 
> I am trying to master OOBE, but you are right about when it happens it can be *very scary,* for instance my first OOBE was when I had passed out after one of my sons football games (not from drugs or alcohol) just fainted technically and I was looking down at myself as everyone was huddled over me, when I got back into my body I woke up with Paramedics and everyone taking care of me.   
> 
> That was a very rough experience, yet now I am totally addicted to trying to OOBE, I have found that when I begin my normal OOBE's I have a few techniques, I eat a bowl of cereal before bed, yes eating does make us dream and gives us fuel, I also rub my eyelids while shut until everything gets bright and then watch the show, this is more of a warm up for me. 
> 
>  I say over and over, I will remember this dream I will have....and that usually starts the Lucid dream for me.  
> ...



I found this Youtbe a few hours ago. He says that we can simutaniously operate in 3 separate minds. Physical body mind, OBE mind and lucid dream mind. If he is right then your physical body mind may have been competent at safely driving the car while your OBE (Astral body) mind was checking things out from a diferent petspective.

Look at the 12:36 to 14 minute point of this Youtube called "How to know when you're about to Astral Project".

It is in the opening post of my thread, below.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/genero...-bruce-136872/

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## Intfere

I started out with astral projection and learnt to lucid dream afterwards. I've found no differences, except the initial way you get into the state.

Also I've had many occurences of spontaneous astral projection from inside of the lucid dream. In all such cases I would start feeling the vibrations, the dream scenery would shatter into pieces (metaphorically, of course), and I would find myself in state of sleep paralysis instead. And then from the state of sleep paralysis I'd find myself projecting.

But that's the only difference. My projections could be crappy in terms of quality, and lucid dreams magnificent, or vice versa. Imho, once you're projected there's no difference between one and the other.

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## thebigm

Okay, just to give a different opinion - taken from Astral Voyage - Astral Projection - Astral Projection / Dreaming / Lucid Dreaming

It's my opinion that astral projection, dreaming and lucid dreaming are intertwined in the same locale. The difference between dreams, projection and lucid dreaming is what is at the controls (the conscious mind or the subconscious mind). Even if you get the vibrations and roll out of your physical body, you will end up "dreaming" very quickly if you don't know what you're doing. People say, "I failed because I fell into a dream." Well, no you didn't, you just gave up conscious control to the subconscious mind which makes the experience totally different! The subconscious mind has its own agenda and communication system. 

Your conscious mind is concerned with the here and now. Your subconscious mind is concerned with processing life events, working out soul lessons, attempting to bring past and future events into your consciousness, and a bevy of other things. Subtle realm experiences, dream or otherwise, get "fantasy like" because again, a person has lost conscious control. The same exact thing happens in the astral if you don't use clarity statements. People just don't realize what the astral is like (during a conscious projection). Yes, it can be as lucid and clear as the waking state, but you can slip into the Alice in Wonderland effect (subconscious control) faster than you can shake a stick! In fact, control can be lost in less than a minute. I have rolled out of my body, gotten half way down my stairs, totally lost conscious control, and slipped into fantasy land immediately. Only through sheer will power, and constantly directing my focus towards my goal, am I able to maintain a lucid state. Published astral projection author, William Buhlman, also states that clarity statements are a must for maintaining lucidity and control. 

The astral is a malleable place where form follows thought, but don't just think it follows "conscious" thought. It also follows subconscious thought. Many an advanced projector, including the famous Robert Monroe, would marvel at how things would materialize (or that they would be transported to an event or place) quicker than they could form the desire consciously. That is how fast and strong the subconscious works! 

An example of an astral dream is if you are working on a lesson. Many lessons cannot be worked out on the physical plane because you wouldn't be able to handle the issue over and over (or even once), whereas you can handle fairly severe scenarios in the astral. For example, we assume all beings not recognizable, such as subtle plane entities, are "evil." If you dream of a freaky looking entity then you'll experience the fear emotion. Fear is generally the first reaction, and often the only reaction, to this experience. Time and time again I was afraid of what I didn't recognize, until I learned to give it a chance, and even send it love. Only then did it morph into something I recognized and that is, the very same life energy that I was. I doubt I'd find it all too pleasant to find some scary looking being in my bedroom at night in the physical, but I can endure it over and over in the astral. It seems like a "crazy" dream, but it is your subconscious mind nudging you in the direction of total awareness and unconditional love. 

Dreams can often come true. A common name for a psychic of this sort is a "sleeping psychic." If we did nothing but remain in our bodies during sleep then this would not be possible. People have even met their friends and loved ones in "dreams" and both parties remembered the experience. In so called dreams, messages are given and futures told. 

People write me in frustration that they can't consciously project. Well, why not instead realize that you project every night and tackle it from a different viewpoint? Why not learn lucid dreaming (or lucid projection) and bypass the whole nonsense of "vibrations and rollout?" 

Remember, you project every night you sleep. All we're doing here is trying to get conscious control of the subtle state.

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## agent3

> OK lrememveresets see if this helps:
> NYefinitions
> 
> Lucid dreaming occurs wdreamingeamingeaming and are aware that you are in fact dream. e you become lucid (aware) in your dtouou can control all of tour ousness leaves your body and enters a realm known as the astral plane.  This is not the dream pl.  This is an entirely different place, and its definitely not Kansas!
> 
> Comparison
> 
> Lets compare lucid dreaming and astral projection so that youll see how distinctly separate these two experiences are.
> 
> ...



After reading your post, I remembered an event that happen many years ago when I was around 10-11. What I remembered is that all of a sudden I was aware that I was "walking" (seems like it but not physically) in my room and ut I was drea that I was in my house when suddenly i was walking out from my room to the living in min g room walking. It seems very much exactly like my house, the general shape. However I didn't notice the fine details and it was not completely vivid but I knew i was in my house. then after awhile (not sure what really happened) I felt a jolt and I'm back in my room on my bed where the surrounding s seems to be the same as my "dream": pitch black in my living room. I was young and didnt know if it was obe/ap. In my "first" dream, I did not remember "floating"out of my body and didn't feel that I might actually be out of my body. I was looking at the door with my back facing the bed. I should be able to see my sister who was sleeping next to the door then if its ap/ obe but I didn't remember if I saw her. I t was pitch black and being afraid of the dark and as I had many such dreams "eg endless corridor and endless lift dreams" so I told myself that I wanted to wake up (possibly becaseue I thoguth it was another scary dream. After thinking hard, I woke up on my bed. I then tried to  run towards my parent's bedroom to call for help. It felt half real and fake. The scene of my parents on the bed were very real to my perception but i felt a little out of place. I tried shouting for help but no words could come out and i felt a demonic presence. Then i dinit know what happened next and i woke up out of fear with the same surrounding. This time i was able to feel my hands and body and i realise that the 2"dreams" were not real. So i woyld like to ask if were those episodes obe/ap or just lucid dreaming? Thanks.

PS. Sorry if my Eng is bad because I have to type them quickly before my thoughts dissapear.

How does one know if he/she is really having AP/OBE and not lucid dreaming that they actually have it. Because the feelings might be the same and AP/OBE can happen while one is asleep and things can actually get very complicated to discern.

If you reach the state when you feel your legs numb (like ants biting) when you try to move and a resisting force, are you already astral projecting and already out of your body? You know and want to move and only know that that scene is not real until you are awake and think about that scene?

"What do you do when you are out of your body?

First, I went to the moon. Often when you leave your body you see astral matter that is not visible to the physical eye. When I went to the moon I was greeted by a man I didn't know and then he showed me around a "compound" where people (mainly men, I think) used this facility, but for what, I don't know. It had a sterile feel to it though. What is it you want to do? I find that the astral is pretty much unlimited. You decide what and where you want to go and then state your desire. I do this a lot. For example, if you want to see a friend, just say, "Take me to Cindy's housCan you see yourself when you astral travel? How do you look? What clothes are you wearing (same as in the physical plane?) etc?

I initially said that you could see yourself lying there on the bed, but I think that what we are really seeing is the etheric body. I don't think we can see the physical body because it's not of the same vibration (like I keep saying over and over... we see the astral counterpart of what is in the physical). I've gotten several e-mails where they can't see ANY body on the bed. That's because they are in both the astral and etheric vehicle so there's nothing to see on the bed! On a related note, I had a very strange astral experience once where I kept having the same dream over and over about tornadoes (twisted sisters). After about the 4th time that I dreamt this, I realized that it was a dream (lucid dream). I then created an astral "counterpart" of myself and left that counterpart to live out the dream so no one would worry and then my "self" flew away. I've never heard of anyone doing this before. As far as what you are wearing, I don't pay attention, but I don't feel naked."

From: htt p://w ww.astralvoyage.com/projection/FAQ_updated.html#whenleave



I think this kind of explain what I felt in my previous posts. Can anyone advise if the words in this post is correct?

*_Posts merged_

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## Dronfieldman

stprue:  rather than LD and OOBE states corresonding to faster brain wave frequencies, as you suggest, they actually occur when the frequency of brain waves is lower than that of normal consciousness, e.g. alpha brain wave activity is a range of hertz lower than that of beta brain wave activity (i.e. normal waking state).

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## dreamer7

in OBES you have 360 degree vision, if u dont have 360 degree vision u are just dreaming. also u sometimes have a silver cord connecting your astral body and physical body (its invisible sometimes) this thread was very frustrating to read. i face palmed a lot.

+

if u can interact with the physical world  (such as moving an object, or talking to a physical person, or a physical person looks at you) you are dreaming.

your dream body is your astral body except its inside of you in dreams, but while outside it is the astral body. which is why you can add objects and people while in an OBE. also with OBEs you can pull friends out of their bodies and both people will remember the OBE

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## Snippy

Lucid dreams and OoBE are 2 completely different things,
in a lucid dream you will go to bed, you will sleep and in a dream you will become aware of your surroundings and the context of the dream, you will also be able to counter/stop anything bad happening in that dream.

An OoBE on the other side is so much different.
You lay down and clear your mind, just like meditation,
You keep your mind awake all the time making sure you don't fall asleep.
You actually clear your mind so much that at certain point you become paralyzed as if the time stopped.
After that you will have a moment to completly stop thinking about your body. Then you will enter the vibration state

Basically after that you're on your own you got a last step to do to clear your mind completly but I think it's different for everyone.
The difference between OoBE's and Lucid dreams is that you are in complete control from begin to the end in OoBE, and in Lucid dreams you become aware of your surroundings while you're dreaming.

Edit: Wow, sorry, I didn't even read angie's post before posting, but yeah exactly what she said there.

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## Darkmatters

Actually what you just explained is the difference between DILDs and WILDs, both of which are lucid dreams, just different entry techniques. A DILD (Dream Initiated Lucid Dream) is a normal dream in which you suddenly become lucid. A WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream) is one in which you fall asleep (body) while remaining conscious (mind) and some people go through the vibration/SP thing, some don't. But many people say that, since the induction technique for OBE/ Astral Porjection is the same as for a WILD lucid dream, that they're probably just specific types of lucid dreams.

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## Runeword

i'll toss in my viewpoint real quick here from my own experiences in that when you have as you put "astral projection" experience  (i hate calling it that because of the hype mysticism factor that goes along with it) there is a moment during the event where you feel an actual physical sensation of seperation in most cases.  as always in experiences like this though, nobody really knows but you as the person who had that personal experience what really happened.

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