# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  Some Ideas on WILD Progression

## Mzzkc

This isn't really going to be a full guide so much as a quick thread on how a WILD progresses given known scientific information and personal experience. 

NOTE: *This is for information purposes only. Expecting these things to happen, or looking for them to happen during a WILD attempt is counter productive and can result in failure unless you know exactly what you're doing.* 

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The typical sleep cycle usually looks like this: N1 -> N2 -> N3 -> N2 -> REM

*A chart:* (notation is old, combine Stage 3 and 4 into N3)


Source: Wikipedia

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*N1 Sleep:*

This is where people report experiences with HH and the like. Hypnic jerks can also occur here.

*N2 Sleep:*

Definitely a more interesting phase. This is where sleep spindles tend to occur, and from personal experience, I'm proposing this is also where vibrations hit, and senses tend go fuzzy. 

I would not be surprised if the experience of these vibrations is directly related to the occurrence of sleep spindles. Unfortunately, I haven't seen enough strong evidence to support this idea one way or the other, so feel free to do your own research there.

*N3 Sleep:*

Not extraordinarily relevant to a normal WILD, but the insertion of N3 sleep between two N2 events accounts for a lot of anecdotes from people who feel vibrations for a short while, have them subside for a time, only to have them pick up again right before they make the final transition.

*REM:*

REM atonia, aka full body paralysis, comes into play at this stage. By this time, a dream has likely formed already or at least started forming.

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So, if we were to break down a WILD, given the usual progression of a sleep cycle we'd be looking at:

*HH -> vibrations, sense dampening/relaxation -> a bit of down-time, sleep disorders may appear here if you've got them -> vibrations, more sense dampening/relaxation -> conscious transition* -> REM, fully body paralysis*

* The transition into a lucid dream could occur at pretty much any point in this chain, but is most likely to happen right before REM hits.

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I'm hoping this will generate some discussion. At the very least it'll be a nice reference.

Cheers.

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## branpera

For a WBTB you are just trying to go from awakening straight to REM correct?  If that is done you probably wouldn't experience vibrations if that occurs in N2.

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## Mzzkc

You can't go from a full awakening straight into REM. That's not how sleep works.

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## Darkmatters

Wait what do you mean? Isn't that exactly what you do in a WBTB or a DEILD?

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## Mzzkc

Nope. The idea is that, as the night goes on, REM periods start to become longer and more drawn out, while N1-N3 sleep is cut down significantly. You'll still have to pass through all the stages to get to REM if you perform a full WBTB, but the time and difficulty will be tons lower than if you tried to WILD directly before bed.

With DEILDs on the other hand, it is possible, but only in the case where you awake in the middle of a REM period. If you have a micro-awakening at the end of REM period, a DEILD will still require you to go through the other stages of sleep before you hit REM again. Of course, since you're doing this so late in the night that won't take much time at all.

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## Robot_Butler

You might be interested in this article:
Spontaneous Middle Ear Muscle Activity in Man: A Rapid Eye Movement Sleep Phenomenon

"Middle ear muscle activity typically erupts before or at the onset of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep and persists throughout the REM period in a discontinuous pattern resembling that exhibited by rapid eye movements."

I think the vibrations are due to the inner ear spazzing out during the onset of REM sleep.  This could also explain some of the disorientation, spinning, falling, bending, and other balance related strangeness.

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## Mzzkc

Oh man, that is cool.

I'll try to get access to the full text (doesn't look like my institution has online access to the journal, but I've got other resources to research material) so I can see exactly what they did and their conclusions, but, yeah, I can see this playing a big role in how WILDs play out.

Thanks for the link!

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## Ctharlhie

> You might be interested in this article:
> Spontaneous Middle Ear Muscle Activity in Man: A Rapid Eye Movement Sleep Phenomenon
> 
> "Middle ear muscle activity typically erupts before or at the onset of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep and persists throughout the REM period in a discontinuous pattern resembling that exhibited by rapid eye movements."
> 
> I think the vibrations are due to the inner ear spazzing out during the onset of REM sleep.  This could also explain some of the disorientation, spinning, falling, bending, and other balance related strangeness.



 This is amazing, I'd always kind of wondered what the role of the inner ear is during WILD. The disconnection of the vestibular systems would also account for weird body image distortions that go on. Also think of the spatial distortions in OBE exits etc.

I seem to remember reading about an astral projection practitioner who was able to manipulate the muscles around the ears to aid projection.

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