# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  WILD - The Stable Way to Learn It

## MasterMind

WARNING! This is going to be a big rant on the regular joe lucid dreaming approach. Read with care.

Hey!

Today I am going to share a way to destroy the biggest obstacle to lucid dreaming that exists. 

I also want to note that it's also the biggest problem to happy relationships or even a happy singlelife.

It's starts to sound like a riddle, and in a way it is, a riddle some people live their lives by every single day and if they don't solve it they end up unhappy.

If you feel offended I am sorry, I am simply talking about myself.

So what is it that creates major problems in lucid dreaming, realtionships and singlelife? 

Dependence.

In some relationships the couple gets so dependent on each other and needy for it to work, otherwise they can't feel like they are enough.
In the singlelife or everyday life in general we may not dare to express ourselves independently and therefore we are dependent on other peoples opinion of us.

And lucid dreaming we are dependent on methods and when we surrender completely to it and give methods and theory power over us we lose faith over our own ability. 

Tim Post told me this long time ago but I didn't listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaho...1F6F1E&index=6

The lucid dreaming community have somehow made the techniques use us rather than the other way around.
Just like the clothing industry. And well I am not blaming anyone except myself, because I should use my own brain.

So now I am going to make an attempt to unlearn what I have learned (Atleast everything that isn't fully based on personal experience.)

I used to help beginners by saying, sleep paralysis isn't what to strive for, it happens already when we are asleep, or don't focus on your body your awareness goes where your awareness is directed, or wake up several times and your aminergic system of the brain will be more active which makes your critical system in the brain mor active which will make you more likely to have lucid dreams and so on.

And I am going to go totally naked now and say that, yes those theories are based on a little personal experience from me, but FAR from enough to make it valid. And all of it is actually just me repeating theories from another source such as: Michael Raduga, Robert Monroe, Lucidology 101.

I am going to be honest to myself now and say "I SUCK SH*T AND I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT LUCID DREAMING" not going to write to beginners needing help, feeding my lucid dreaming knowledge ego, because that is basically what I did. 

The reason I am doing this complete turn around is because this exact mindset helped my dating life, instead of thinking of what to say and analyzing how women think, I just thought "I am enough, I am a dorky, nerdy overthinker but what ever that happens I am enough."

And this is the opposite of being dependent, being FREE!

Free of the burden of finding the perfect method on the internet, free of the burden of learning a new theory, free of the burden of buying books, free of the burden of learning the step by step process of another person. I am free to learn on my own!

So what am I going to do now? I got the free will to do anything I want, so I am going to decide exactly what I want without any boundary of some theory telling me it's not possible or too difficult.

*I want to learn to lucid dream at will, every night and I want to enter the dream without losing consciousness inbetween.*

In order to find out how to do this, I am going to ask some questions. 

*Exploration 1:*

What happens if I lay still on my back for 20 minutes with closed eyes?

From now on I will make lucid dreaming not a practise, but an exploration. I will find my own truths and my own answers.

I wish for you to do the same. 

The reason I wrote this is to encourage the people that right now read a guide over and over and wonder why it isn't working for them, and make them realise that they don't need anything except their own curiosity. 

I hope for them to find their freedom.

Bye for now!

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## Eddydpyl

I'm up for it.

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## MasterMind

*Exploration 1:*

_What happens if I lay still on my back for 20 minutes with closed eyes?_

That is what I want to know right now. I kind of need a bigger question though.
And instead of a question, a statement might be more effective, just like you do in an essay I need to narrow it down.

Statement: _Laying still and remaining aware is all that is needed in order to enter a dream consciously._

Exploration 1: What happens if I lay still on my back for 20 minutes with closed eyes?

Method of Exploration 1: I set a timer for 21 min, 1 minute to prepare, 20 minutes to observe. I had two pillows behind my head and I lay on my back.

Result of Exploration 1 , Night 1: Before the 21 minutes I made a note about how my body felt. It was tensed up, I had been to the gym. My lower back had some pain and I was very aware of my body. During this exploration I was not daydreaming, instead I was focusing on my body feeling it's changes. After about 3 minutes my feet started to tingle and it felt like the wave you feel when you don't get enough blood, or when, as the expression goes, a part of your body falls asleep.
I felt a slight tingle on the side of my elbows as well. Then I blacked out completely and the next thing I know I woke up to the sound of my 21minute alarm.
When I woke up I wrote some notes down about how I felt. I woke up with a relaxed body, less aware of how it felt, still very aware of it though, but less than before.
My mind was also much calmer and rested.  

Tonight I am going to keep my mind active by daydreaming and thinking and see if I black out as quickly again or if I can stretch the length of my awareness.

I am still on Exploration 1 and haven't been still and aware for 20 min on my back, so I can't make any conclusion about it yet.
Instead I have encountered a problem, and by solving this problem I can reach a better understanding about my Exploration 1 and get closer to find an answer to my statement.

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## Ctharlhie

Why are you carrying out these explorations first thing at night?

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## MasterMind

Because I can! Why aren't you?  :smiley:

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## Ctharlhie

To enter a a dream then could take 90 minutes, not 20.

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## MasterMind

I am aware of that, that idea is based on REM sleep and how the brain functions. 

And even though my end goal is to lucid dream at will, my goal right now is to focus on something I can control the result of, and that is to simply observe the process of falling asleep consciously.

That is why it doesn't bother me to do it on my bedtime.  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

I like this notion.  I think though that beginners benefit from some direction to give them some basis for kickstarting the entire process.   I realized early on that only I can affect my dreaming results and drive my progress forwards.   Initially I needed to overcome middle of the night insomnia, and I have largely accomplished that goal, leading to greatly increased confidence in my ability to "fix" things myself.   Curiosity, discipline, and an urge for self-discovery about the sleep and dreaming process is critical.

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## FryingMan

> To enter a a dream then could take 90 minutes, not 20.



That's for REM dreaming, which is not the only kind of dreaming there is.   And that's a "typical", variance circumstances (sleep deprivation) could probably produce much sooner REM.

When I was doing a lot of WILD attempts (and I don't think I've ever succeeded), I became so attuned to watching for the transition into sleep that I actually couldn't sleep well for a while, even after I stopped conscious attempts.   Every time the transition started I would jerk awake, it was actually really annoying!    That faded eventually after stopping the WILD attempts.

But that's an interesting approach, "catching" the transition, I've seen Hukif write about this proposing it ("TILD") as another possibility of LDing.

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## Ctharlhie

I'm not actually as deadset against bedtime WILDs as many DVers, one of my friends IRL finds it's the only way he can LD. I just think that it is a deceptive and painful route. Deceptive because there is more hypnagogic imagery when falling asleep at bedtime that can create an illusion of progress.

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## MasterMind

There is also lots of theories out there, creating illusions of facts. My friend for example who don't even know about lucid dreaming told me about an experience where he couldn't fall asleep. But he somehow believed that the only way for him to fall asleep was to stay still and not move, because if he moved he would have to start over again, so he daydreamed and observed his thoughts and then he became aware of not feeling his breath anymore and he got really scared, then he levitated through the ceiling, going through all the floors of his appartment and he thought he was going to die.

This is all cool and interesting right? However it doesn't mean sh*t for any of us, since it's just his experience.

In the same way the idea that WILD would be harder on bedtime also doesn't mean sh*t because it's not my experience either.

For all of you people writing your personal experiences, I thank you. However it doesn't interests me because right now I have basically decided to become totally new, unlearn everything I have learned about lucid dreaming. And just explore the art of falling asleep consciously.

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## Sageous

Good plan, I think, Mastermind, I have a feeling it will work for you.  But:





> ... because right now I have basically decided to become totally new, unlearn everything I have learned about lucid dreaming. And just explore the art of falling asleep consciously.



Must you really unlearn everything?  Since you have had quite a bit of success with LD'ing, and your experienced-based skills are high, is it wise to abandon all that?  Sure, there is plenty of reason to avoid crowded or misleading techniques (as a matter of fact, if you look at my WILD class at DVA, it's more anti-technique than technique), but should you avoid what already works for you?

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## MasterMind

I still got lots of skills and abiltiies developed from my years of practise, such as: Concentration, I can meditate for long periods of time. I have a more focused mind, less negative thoughts, more process-oriented, more humble appreciation for the journey of progression itself, relaying on things within my control and not results etc.

And don't worry I haven't forgot everything I have learned and in a way I am still on my old path, and it will surely affect the way I think and act. 
However this idea of a new start is something very motivating to me, and also a reminder that I should think for myself and not be a sheep to gurus.

What motivated me to change my perspective on the lucid dreaming mindset was my dating life. Every night I go to a club, even though I have approached hundreds of girls, I still have to re-learn and repeat the process. I ignored this for a while though because it was going really well, but then one night I went to the club thinking "I am the boss, I can make any girl mine!" and suddenly I had built up a pick up ego, not respecting the process of socialising and weirded people out. 

I then looked at my lucid dreaming practise and realized that I had kind of done the same thing here, thinking I am a wise, experienced lucid dreamer writing my opinions to people, but I had lost my actual ability to lucid dream. 
So now I have decided to lose my ego and become a beginner again, just like I did in my pick up and found a stable robust structure.

I am going to focus on WILD now.

But first I need to understand the actual process of falling asleep consciously, because right now I don't.

I also like to be somewhat of a rebel  :smiley:  trying the impossible, because that is what made me do most of the things I do in life such as:

Lucid dreaming - Most people said it was a waste of time because it was impossible, then it's easier to play videogames.
Cold Approach Pickup - Most people said (and are still saying) that walking up to random girls and getting a date is impossible.
Meditation - Oh that is just spiritual none sense, it can't possibly make any difference to just sit doing nothing every day.

And I always say think the same thing: "Ah yeah? Watch me. Everything is impossible until someone does it"

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## MasterMind

Method of Exploration 1: 

_I set a timer for 21 min, 1 minute to prepare, 20 minutes to observe. I had two pillows behind my head and I lay on my back. This time my focus was on daydreaming and thinking._

Result of Exploration 1 , Night 2: 

Before the 20 min: Tensed up legs (muscle soreness), unfocused tired mind.

During 20 min: I started out by not focusing on my body at all, I was just thinking and thinking and thinking. First I thought about my dating life, I had been flakead by some gilr (cancelling date) and another girl I texted then instead was really late on answering and I had just heard a speech from Tyler RSD how you in the beginning behave like a girl's friend and they don't see you sexual in anyway, blablabla. I realized then that stuff I worried about before such as meeting other girls at the same time, is irrational because society teaches us that we should be nice, available and treat girls like a princess. But what they actually respond to is a completly different behavior. This it totally off-topic but as you can see analysing just a single problem as my mind becomes calmer and calmer makes the time fly by and also makes me look on the problem much more lightly. I was thinking lots of stuff, another thing I was pondering was the idea of doing this thinking and every once in a while stop and do a reality check, but without moving, so how do you do that? I thought about this for a while and some weird ideas such as "Imagining plugging your nose", but the best I coul come up with was to imagine your hands being clasped or your legs being crossed, and when you could feel that actually happening even though you are in reality in a complete different posture, well then you basically have a phantom or dream body to work with. Might try this out in the future, right now I have to focus on mantaining awareness some more.

After the 20 min: I woke up from my thoughts when the alarm sounded. However I was not as aware of the thoughts as I was in the beginning but I was also not totally unaware of them. It was like waking up from a dream, but instead it was just subconscious thoughts.
I was now totally relaxed, my legs felt normal and my mind was really alert. I was also slightly more unaware of my body.

This is was just the first 20 minutes of my night, but even though my exploration 1 was over I pushed my limits further by continuing to lay still.

I remember feeling really warm and sweaty and eventually falling asleep.

Then something very interesting happened. I woke up 01:32, 07:19, 8:17 and 09:46 remembering lots of dreams and I even had a lucid dream! 
(See my Dream Journal)

Which reminded me of a thought I had a year ago while attempting something like this: "WILD is the most effective way to DILD"

Because you end up more aware in your dreams compared to just fall asleep normally.

If this is true or not I am not sure of just yet, but it is going in that direction. This means that I just have to continue to focus on my direct entry which will make me more aware in general and then the indirect awareness is just a natural consequence. 

Sorry I just can't help it, but this reminds me of pick up, by choosing the path by hitting on girls directly, I do what 1% of guys doesn't dare to do which will make me more confident and cool in general and then the indirect attractiveness is just a natural consequence.

If you want to become aware of your dreams, learn about awareness in general!
If you want a specific girl to become your girlfriend, learn to get good with girls in general!

Oh I am getting kind of carried away here, but this was an intense night.

This is just one night so I can't make any conclusions yet, but I am very motivated to continue my exploring!

Tonight I am celebrating something called "midsummer" in Sweden, it's basically a night where we drink alot and welcome the summer.

So I will see what kind of mindstate I will be in tonight, but if possible I will still try to fall asleep consciously.

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## Ctharlhie

> Then something very interesting happened. I woke up 01:32, 07:19, 8:17 and 09:46 remembering lots of dreams and I even had a lucid dream! 
> (See my Dream Journal)
> 
> Which reminded me of a thought I had a year ago while attempting something like this: "WILD is the most effective way to DILD"
> 
> Because you end up more aware in your dreams compared to just fall asleep normally.



So true!

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## MasterMind

Problem Number 1: Mantaining Awareness

The first problem I run into while attempting to do this, is to remain aware while I am exploring the first stages of the night. Since there isn't much to do while I am just laying in my bed, the default is to just fall asleep unconsciously. I have tried day day dreaming, but what happens most of the time is that the thoughts get so weird that eventually they don't even make sense and it's hard to really focus without a clear goal in mind. So I thought about some new ways to mantain my awareness, and what I am going to test out now, is to use the breath as something to play around with as I just wait for the time to go by.

My indirect goal is to get a DILD by using the WILD process as a ritual for falling asleep.

But my real goal is to just find out if the following statement is true or false "Laying still and remaining aware is all that is needed in order to enter a dream consciously."

I'll share my result afterwards.

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## Ctharlhie

> my real goal is to just find out if the following statement is true or false "Laying still and (*falling asleep whilst*) remaining aware is all that is needed in order to enter a dream consciously."



If all you had to was lay still and remain aware WILD would be as easy as breathing... Oh, wait.

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## MasterMind

I tried the Hansa Breath Method. It means that each time you feel like you are losing concentration, you take a fast sniffing breath, but not too big breath and not too small of a breath. This was supposed to keep me aware, and once again I have only tried it one night so I can't make any conclusions. However this night I just clicked out.
Although I am thinking since it is really difficult to find a way to mantain awareness upon bedtime, since your mind is really exhausted. 

If I manage to do it even once, then that method is suitable for me and effective in itself.

Right now I just want to cycle through different ways of doing it to see what suits me best.

The anchors I have used so far are: Day dreams, Awareness of the breath and tonight I will try to use audio and use listening awareness as my anchor.  :smiley:

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## Ctharlhie

Just another idea for a successful anchor, in this description of a WILD Billybob focused on the back of his head as an anchor: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...sful-wild.html

((If you're not already familiar with his stuff, Billubob introduced the idea of the anchor on these forums))

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## MasterMind

Thanks for the tip will try that as well!  ::D:

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## MasterMind

Here is the exploration I have done so far and the problems that have been arising:

I wanted to find out if laying still with closed, remaining aware and just waiting is all that is needed in order to enter a dream consciously.
But at bedtime the remaining aware part was really difficult because no matter what anchor I used (I have tried daydreaming, focusing on the breath and listening to audio), but I still clicked out to unconscious sleep from nowhere. So apparently that is the default or atleast very likely. 
Tonight I will try something new and this time I am not going to use an anchor to remain aware, I am going to use the body itself.

In my experiments I have been laying on my back flat, because I had read that it is harder to fall asleep in that posture. Well for me that apparently wasn't the case...
So tonight I will go even more extreme and sleep in a sitting position, in my bed though. And I'll see how that affects my ability to remain aware. I will not use any anchor at all (well day-dreaing by default) but I really want to see what happens in this posture.

If this posture makes me unable to fall asleep, PERFECT then the solution is found and the journey can continue.

If you think this is extreme, remember I am only doing it because it's fun, and I really want to see if I can find a way to fall asleep consciously at bedtime. But when I wake up in the middle of the night I still do the regular approach of WBTB, DILD, DEILD. 

Wish me luck and sweet dreams to you!  ::content::

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## MasterMind

I went to bed very late, for some reason I wasted my time in front of the computer reading ebooks instead of going to bed. I just didn't feel like sleeping, even though I was really tired.I was in bed around 00:19, "Perfect circumstances to really test effectiveness of the new posture" I thought.

And well as most nights I clicked out fairly quickly to unconscious sleep. However! This time in this posture I wasn't able to fall asleep as deeply, I fell asleep and woke up in the middle of the night, but I sort of felt like I hadn't been asleep for long. And my reflex was to just think "Oh I clicked out for a bit, I better get back to sleep."

If my awakening is for example 40-90 minutes after going to sleep, then this is almost like a perfect window for a diret entry or even just an indirect entry.

If I want to do it direct, I need to endure some discomfort or find a really good anchor. If I want to do it indirect I just need to fall back to sleep.

And this night I did it indirectly because when I woke up lucid dreaming wasn't even on my mind.

I was very aware of my dreams, not lucid but I remembered alot and had very vivid dreams.

So tonight I will do the exact same thing, because I think I am onto something here. And then if this uncomfortable awakening happens again, my goal will be to check the time!

If this posture makes me wake up I have an alarm free WBTB, and if this posture keeps me aware I can practise my before bed WILD routine.

The posture sort of solved the remaining aware part, or atleast it's a good step on the way.  :smiley: 

Cya tomorrow!  :wink2:

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## Ctharlhie

Sleep yogis fall asleep in a seated position.

Interesting findings  :smiley:

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## MasterMind

!!! Always when I try to find something new and original it turns out some Asian sleep yoga monk did it before me!  :armflap: 

Well I guess it's good to find it on my own first though. 

Or maybe... I was a monk in a previous life.  ::huh2::

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## Mzzkc

This is the best thread I've seen in a long while. =)

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## Sensei

Hmmm... Interesting things mastermind. I will be keeping tabs on this thread. I have had about 10 WILDs without prior sleep, and I have thought before about abandoning all and practicing it, because if you could master, you should be able to always LD every time you feel like it. That being said, my current practice is yielding too much fruit to abandon, and I had significantly less DILDS when going so hard and fast for WILD. I will write more later (it is bed time, and I want to LD now), but I am very interested. 

There is a "no method" method that people seem to be keen to after they hit a certain amount of LDs, normally for DILD though, but I am going to write a thread on this soon. Good luck with your experiments!

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## MasterMind

> This is the best thread I've seen in a long while. =)



Haha!  ::dancingcow:: 





> Hmmm... Interesting things mastermind. I will be keeping tabs on this thread. I have had about 10 WILDs without prior sleep, and I have thought before about abandoning all and practicing it, because if you could master, you should be able to always LD every time you feel like it. That being said, my current practice is yielding too much fruit to abandon, and I had significantly less DILDS when going so hard and fast for WILD. I will write more later (it is bed time, and I want to LD now), but I am very interested. 
> 
> There is a "no method" method that people seem to be keen to after they hit a certain amount of LDs, normally for DILD though, but I am going to write a thread on this soon. Good luck with your experiments!



I am glad that I am not the only one who have thought this.  :smiley: 

I have some happy news for you! Last night I went to bed and I experimented around with different ways to arrange my pillows, in order to be sitting up in my bed, still be comfortable and still not fall asleep. I went to the extreme and used three pillows and well I did find a nice setup, but I decided to listen to some audio on the Iphone.
I thought well usually I click out no matter what guided meditation I listen to, so if I manage to be aware through it all I know I have found a good posture.

I listened to this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eVdFaGmBhk

Because I had it converted to mp3 in my Iphone library. I managed to stay aware through the whole thing! My legs were vibrating and my body got relaxed.
I had edited out the intro though, so the audio was about 18 minutes. "Perfect!" I thought... I then just kept my headphones on and continued to relax and wait, but then suddenly from nowhere this audio blasted into my ears:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okpf-cgIwFE  ::rolleyes:: 

I had forgot that my gym tracks would play as well. I thought "Well let's see if my body can relax to high audio. It couldn't... 

However something weird happened, in the middle of one song my head just made a fast strong jolt forward, like a reflex, and after that I took my headphones off and rolled over to my side and fell asleep. The attempt was made between 23:51 to 00:25.

I had some really vivid dreams, in one of them I was doing taekwondo with full control, but I wasn't lucid, but very connected to my dream body.

In the morning I tried out some new pillow setups and I found one where I had a pillow under my lower back and one behind my neck, and it was late morning so I didn't attempt to do anything it was time to go up. But I was really excited over this new pillow setup because the pillow behind the lower back made it feel almost like I was laying in a sunchair. 

It's one thing to find a posture that makes you not fall asleep unconsciously, it's another thing to find a posture that is comfortable.

Since I basically can do whatever induction I want, because I know that the posture will still keep me aware, it's a whole lot of fun to choose a WILD technique, because I know that I with this posture already have the first and the hardest stage almost guaranteed, the relaxation stage.

So the result from Exploration 1: What happens if I lay still on my back for 20 minutes with closed eyes? (and remain aware)

Sensations: Itches, swallowing, (sneezing), not feeling comfortable

Thoughts: Negative thoughts telling you that you should just give up, thoughts telling you that you can't make it.

Emotions: Sort of can count as thoughts but sometimes you don't think anything but you just have strong urges to give up.

The solution for all of these is to experience them and fail until you are so fed up with them that you automatically resist them. 

If you have a posture that lets you stay aware and experience these three signs of a dream (Sensations, thoughts and emotions) over and over. This resistence will happen very quickly.

Sort of like standing on your hands, at first you will not be able to find the balance, you will trip and fall on your head, but after enough repetitions you will find the balance.

I have not completely found this balance yet, so my second question will be to explain how this balance feels in more detail.

Exploration 2: How to endure the relaxation stage? (Sensations, Thoughts and Emotions)

Because I have now explored the first question and solved it's problem, I can now do my practise regularly and for that matter perform it at all. 
By exploring the next question I will hopefully encounter new problems that will give me a new piece of the puzzle of the process of falling asleep consciously.

Tonight I think I will take revenge on my first WILD attempts in my career and listen to LaBerges guided induction, but this time I will not fall asleep unconsciously!

Cya!  ::meditate::

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## MasterMind

Also if you feel like it. Don't be afraid to join this thread and share your own thoughts and experiments.

My idea of learning is not to ask a question and get it answered by someone else, but rather to:
Be inspired by others, learn by yourself.  :SleepMeditate2:

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## Ctharlhie

Ok, I'll join the party.

My hypothesis gonna be a bit different to yours, Mastermind:

"Any WILD technique should yield results given that the conditions necessary for WILD, (as laid out by Mzzkc:

You need to be close to REM.
You need to fall asleep.
You need to retain awareness.)

Are in place, the technique is based on an anchor, and sufficient work in the fundamentals of self-awareness and memory is practised."

With that in mind I should be able to pick up any technique and, if the conditions laid out above are in place, be successful. Previously I have flitted from one WILD tech to another, becoming proficient in none, this time I will practise one until I gain an understanding of the mechanics of WILD. I spent the first year of my practice wasting my time chasing 'SP', not knowing the fundamentals and misunderstanding the mechanics of WILD as gaining access to sleep paralysis. I got to thinking that I would never WILD, but I joined Sageous DVA class and I achieved it, I used to think it was impossible and now I don't see why I shouldn't be able to WILD any time I want to (as long as the aforementioned conditions are in place).

I have logged three days of attempts at Jamie Alexander's "LDOC" (Lucid Dream On Command) WILD technique, which consists of lying on your back and focusing on the point where your head is in contact with the pillow as an anchor until you transition into dream. I chose this technique because of it's similarity to meditation techniques for WILD found in dream yoga in which you focus on the chakras of the throat or forehead (not that I believe in chakras per se, I think they have a physiological basis in the body rather than any spiritual substance), and also to these threads on DV:

http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...ations-ld.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...effective.html

But mainly I have picked the technique just because it caught my attention, and it's novelty suits my purpose of picking a random technique and seeing whether it can work for me.


*Preliminary attempts*



_Initial unsuccesses (3ish attempts):_ 

Thoughts - Mind wandering aimlessly, occasionally wondering about progress, only to be hit by waves of numbing and tingling as I enter NREM 1, accompanied by more characteristically 'hypnagogic thoughts' (free associative and surreal), moments later having lapsed in attention.

Emotions: boredom, wanting to give up, excitement

Sensations: Numbness of extremities, rushing waves of warmth/tingling/ numbness, vibrations around the base of the skull and ears/hypnagogia, head sinking into the bed, seeing through closed eye lids

In response to all of these I tried to ignore my body and focus even more my head - fighting any feelings of excitement or expectation.

I have found focusing on the back of my head/base of my skull is a very powerful anchor, pulling me back from the brink of sleep many times, leading to consciousness of a lot of NREM phenomena. It's almost too powerful an anchor, making it difficult to fall asleep after more than eight hours sleep.

_Success:_

This morning I attempted after 5 hours sleep and WBTB of more than an hour. I experienced all of the above plus transition. After a while of drifting in the hypnagogic state, attention lapsing and snapping back I could see a scene through my closed lids (even feeling my eye mask still) which I simply walked into.

_Plan_

Having found a timing that works I will continue to wbtb for an hour after 5 hours sleep and do the technique. I will practice at bedtime as well to see how far I can retain awareness and to familiarise myself with WILD/NREM sensations so that I can learn to ignore them better when I attempt for real.

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## MasterMind

Method of Exploration 2: 

_I went to bed in my new posture. In a half-sitting posture I started to listen to Stephen LaBerge's Trance Induction. (18min 42sec)
Then I just continue the practise and observe the relaxation period._

Result of Exploration 2: 

Before the Exploration: Tired and unfocused mind.

During the Exploration: I was totally aware through out the whole audio, so 18 min without falling asleep unconsciously with a tired mind like that, I was impressed. When the audio was over I started to daydream and think about different things, then I clicked out as usual, although with the exception that I was a little more aware than usual. I wasn't vividly dreaming but I was experiencing my subconscious or automatic thoughts more aware.
Later on as expected I woke up in the middle of the night and this time I checked the time. It was: 00:20!

This means that I had slept for around one hour and 10 minutes. 

So maybe my last prediction was right, in a uncomfortable posture I wake up before deep-sleep. I even had an urge to roll over to a more comfortable posture, unfortunately that was what I did. I had a good posture however I had placed the top of my head, hard against the wall, so it was warm and in pain. It was impossible to remain in that posture. I have to found a way to tweak it further to make my head comfortable as well. Or it was a disguised sensation.

Now I have had multiple experiences showing me that it is VERY difficult to remain aware during the first minutes of bedtime, however I somehow found a way to not make that a problem, but an advantage! Sure I am not aware during my firt periods of sleep, so what? With this posture I seem to wake up without an alarm clock right before my deep sleep anyway! (No matter how tired I am).

I had some really vivid, controlled dreams this night, one pee dream, one sex dream and one chase dream. So even if I fail to WILD I seem to have vivid dreams by default anyway, making it much easier to DILD/MILD. 

But my goal is to WILD! 

Funnily enough I have found the answer to exploration 2 on my first night:

Exploration 2: How to endure the relaxation stage? (Sensations, Thoughts and Emotions) - The Pain Period

Easy! You just surrender to it completely and fall asleep, sleep through the whole thing! If you really want to experience it, not much are going to happen the first hour after bedtime anyway though, well just try meditation for 20 minutes awake, it's the same struggles of negative thoughts, negative emotions and sensations bothering you and your own judging mind and ego. In other words if you want to master the relaxation period fully, then learn to meditate. If you want to cheat it and sleep through it and wake up next to your deep sleep period, fall asleep on your back.  ::wink:: 

Someday I will hopefully learn to meditate like this, and I am practising meditation every day. But now? Why make it more difficult than it is, if I can skip 1 hour and a couple of minutes by sleeping and waking up at the new stage, fine with me!

When I finnish this journey and get my first (almost) at bedtime WILD the steps I have gone through can be summarized with:

1. How to remain aware
2. How to endure the relaxation stage

and now three will be a continued exploration of (2.) however now it will be more aimed torwards the answer to:

Exploration 3: What happens during deep sleep?

So tonight I will follow the same repeatable steps of, choosing the posture, do whatever I want until I fall asleep, wake up before deep sleep, remain still and explore what happens. I will not have any audio, so at this moment it will be time to use anchors, why not start with the most simple anchor.

The breath. 

Hypothesis:

In deep sleep I will be at the end of what my friend describes here: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-part-2-a.html

Although I might have to wait 20+ min before things start to happen.

So what will happen? My breath will dissapear and strange things will occur.

We'll see tonight!  :wink2: 

*Statement: Laying still and remaining aware is all that is needed in order to enter a dream consciously.*

Can I answer this yet?

Nope but soon I can. If we take REM sleep into consideration I will at some point have been laying still and aware for more than 2 hours and by then I can see if my statement above is the only thing required to enter a dream consciously. So tonight I will do everything in my power to not get up and see what happens.

Cya!

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## MasterMind

Last night I got a little lazy and I thought "Hmm maybe I can put my pilllow slightly lower so I get more comfortable", as a result I didn't had my spontaneous awakening.  :Sad: 

Tonight I am going to try to do it as usual and make a note about exactly how I setup my pillows.

Since it still was a slightly uncomfortable posture than normal I still experienced extra awareness/ vividness in my dreams.

I should probably take advantage of this fact and use some affirmations or daily awareness, but more about that later, right now WILD is my first and only focus.

Cya!

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## Athylus

Very interesting thread and thanks for sharing your knowledge and that video, it's great!

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## MasterMind

Method of Exploration 3: (Observing) What happens during deep sleep?

_Fall asleep with a generally higher awareness than usual with the sleep posture and pillow setup, attempt to enter a vivid dream without REM, or fall asleep slightly unconscious and become aware of the spontaneous awakening. Then observe the mind and body during this stage of deep sleep._

Before and During the Exploration: Tired and really exhausted

I went to be 23:26 and I listened to this relaxing audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXbt6B7GloE
Now I know how to setup my posture, I was tired out of my mind and still woke up in the middle of the night and I checked the time again.
I had my expected spontaneous awakening 01:09 which means that I had been laying still for one hour and 44 minutes! 
When I woke up I remembered that I had been experiencing unconscious thoughts and I hadn't experienced a vivid dream, so I treated this awakening as a chance to DEILD because I might be close to REM and even if I wasn't the mind should be easier to focus.

I had extreme urges to move my arms in line with my thoughts. Like for example if I thought "Ok now I am going to take charge of my life!" I almost sleep walked and moved my arms in my bed, hard to explain but I acted out my thoughts. When I became aware of these movements and was fully awake I thought "Ok now I have moved so heavily that I can just roll over and go to sleep". BAD IDEA!

I got insomnia! I was unable to fall asleep, had a terrible headache and was really negative and whiny. I totally gave up on the exploration and all I did was to try to fall asleep. But I couldn't! I couldn't relax, I couldn't lay still and I couldn't clear my mind from negative thoughts and emotions.
Right now I am reading a book named "Philosophy for life and other dangerous situations" by Jules Evans and in that book he mention a philosopher named Epictetus who talks about the idea of only focusing on what's in our control and not what's out of our control.

Right now my only goal was to fall asleep, I think I can finally understand why my natural OBE friend only had that goal and not lucid dreaming here. http://www.dreamviews.com/wake-initi...technique.html

I did everything, I tried multiple comfortable sleeping postures, counted down from 100 to 0, tried to relax as much as possible.

But then I listened to this guided meditation on my Iphone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1RdEVXWXbU
I listened to that for 50 minutes! Without falling asleep! But after doing some breathing exercises and positve thinking, my mind had gone from:
Headache to Clear and Tranquil
Wanting to move to Less aware of my body and not feeling any need to move
Negativity to Postivity

I changed audio and listened to a guided astral projection instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-0zGJhiDPY

In this video I was told to focus on the space between my eyebrows and focus on my breathing.

And as I did this something very interesting happened.

The colored dots behind my eyelids started to grow and pulsate like a weak psychadelic trip.

Like this one, but not as fast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky8hRr8QcHE

Then I lost consciousness for a brief moment, just a few second or so, but when I woke up again, I had an extreme urge to move and I gave in.

Later on in the night I had incredibly vivid dreams.

Result:  

I have now experienced a night where I lay still over 90 minutes, since I don't fall asleep or relax my body completely maybe it can take some longer time.
But what I do know now is that even if the only requirement to fall asleep consciously is to lay still and remain aware, urges, thoughts and sensations wont let you do that as easily. So therefore that will be my new problem to solve: *How to ignore the sensations of deep sleep?*

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## MasterMind

Problem Number 2: Remaining still

Some nights my problem is that I fall asleep unconsciously while doing my WILD, other nights I just can't fall asleep at all.
Since I started doing my explorations here, I now have a solution for both.

The nights I fall asleep unconsciously I have found a way to get aware of my spontaneous awakenings.
And the nights where I don't I just see that as an oppurtunity to practise bedtime WILD.

A problem I have encountered now during my WILDs and this is another sticking point which will if solved will make my journey progress to new heights.
And well that is the problem of remaining still, and last night I did the best before WILD attempt I have done in my entire life but in the end the problem was that I couldn't resist the urge to move. Here is what I did:

I went to bed 22:22 in my half-sitting posture and I closed my eyes and relaxed deeply. When I gave up I was 100% sure that I hadn't clicked out a single time and the time was then 23:29!!! Which means that I had been laying still and aware for 1 hour and 7 minutes! 
During this time I felt my body get relaxed and I felt some tingling and small vibrations in different parts of the body and I felt my breath change and my body got heated up at times.

What I did during this time was basically lots of thinking and day dreaming.

My first way of trying to tackle this problem is to take total responsability of my minds ability to calm down.
I will focus on my breath and meditate for hours if that is what it takes! 

But my goal right now is to just reach the 2 hour mark.

Why? Because my goal right now is not to WILD, I am only going to focus on what I can control and that is to remain still and aware for as long as possible. If I can do it longer than a a whole sleep cycle and nothing happens, then I probably have to reconsider my approach.
But for now I'll just treat it as conscious sleep.

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## MasterMind

Method of Exploration 3: (Observing) What happens during deep sleep?

_Fall asleep with a generally higher awareness than usual with the sleep posture and pillow setup, attempt to enter a vivid dream without REM, or fall asleep slightly unconscious and become aware of the spontaneous awakening. Then observe the mind and body during this stage of deep sleep._

Before and During the Exploration: I went to bed 22:24 without listening to any audio and I got the idea of focusing on non-physical things by using my real senses. For example I begin by thinking "What can I see?" and I look at the black canvas of my eyelids, then I ask "What can I hear?" and I listen for any ringing or other sound, I even asked "What can I feel?" and I tried to feel any strange sensations in my body. Then I proceeded with taking really deepbreaths and on each exhale I imagined myself getting more and more relaxed and it was like I pumped myself with relaxation.

As a result I fell asleep unconsciously this time, but I woke up after a dream and my first thought was "Perfect! Now I can check how long I need to lay still in order for me to enter a dream", I got up to check the time and...02:01!!!  ::wtf:: 

No! Really...  ::whyohwhy::  I need to lay still for 3 hours and 30 minutes, and as I recall this dream it wasn't even that long. It was vivid for sure and I experienced high degrees of dream control (not lucid), but is it worth it? 

I probably had another dream earlier, but if this second one was so short, then the first one must have been even more so.

I also woke up with a headache, insomnia and tossed and turned in my bed until I gave up and watched Youtube Videos.

And NOPE it wasn't pr0n I actually watched the total opposite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJ_QfP2mhU

Going to stop fap completely and use my sexual energy for productive stuff, like this practise for example.

But I fell asleep 04:51!!!

I finally realized that the reason I couldn't fall asleep was that I was freezing, I put on some socks and fell asleep like a lamb.  :SleepMeditate2: 

So yeah even though it was a tough night, I did atleast got a timing for my dreams, so now I can I really test out if laying still with closed eyes is the only requirement to get a lucid dream. If I can do this for 3 hours and 30 minutes and nothing happens, I know for sure that my statement is false. Then something else is needed than just relaxation and awareness. I mean I don't think my natural obe friend was lying still for 3 hours and 30 minutes.

Although I am determined to find out! I hit a wall today  :Bang head: 

But who knows maybe in the future I'll appreciate this challenge.  ::sleeping:: 

I like to see every road-block as an oppurtunity to learn and instead of seeing it as an obstacle I choose to view it with the idea of "How can I use this to my advantage? And if I solve this problem what benefits will it give me?".

In this case the knowledge of knowing that I have to lay still for atleast 3 hours and 30 minutes (or less, or even more!) I have to see this as a way to learn really high degrees of self-discipline and even if I fail doing this before bed, later on this ability can be used combined with a WBTB with high effect. Or I simply learn to meditate for long periods of time and if I fall asleep and wake up with insomnia, again it's just another oppurtunity to learn to sleep consciously. 

I already follow the Stoic tradition of keeping a Journal and logging my thoughts as so called _hupomnemata_ I might as well go through the extreme Spartan like mind training. And I honor Epictetus idea of 30 Days of becoming your action.

My mind is really tired right now so I apologize for the gibberish philosophy talk.

Cya tomorrow lovely readers!  Namnlös.jpg

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## MasterMind

Spontaneous plans came up: 2 Nights of partying - Will have to postpone my exploration a little bit.  :smiley:

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## MasterMind

New strategy for tonight: 

During the relaxation sometimes it feels like the body gets heated up and it get so hot that you are forced to give up. Today I thought of practising endurance these sensations by sunbathing and meditating. At first it was really uncomfortable and hot but then I focused on my breath and actually fell asleep.
So tonight I am going to only have one goal in mind as I do my exploration. Fall asleep in the half-sitting posture, intentionally and over and over again until I dream in it.

I will either lay still awake and focus on my breath as the time goes by and pass my goal of 3 hours and 30 minutes or fall asleep in this posture and pass the time that way. Both ways are fine.

Cya tomorrow!

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## MasterMind

This night I fell asleep throguh the whole night. I possibly might have woke up and in a super tired state of mind switched position and fall back to sleep.

However if I didn't there is two possible reasons for not waking up this night.

The first is that I was two nights sleep deprived, so we'll see what happens tonight when my mind is back to normal.

And the second is that I intended to just fall asleep and this intention is easy, habitual and natural so it's exactly what happened.

But a positive thing with this night was also that I could fall asleep soundly in this posture which means that I have got better at relaxing my mind and body, which can be used for my self-induced insomnia nights.

What I did to relax was to imagine walking through my school and meeting my idols: Eckhart Tolle , Tyler RSD, Morpheus etc. And they all told me to relax and that I was dreaming. I didn't got far, I fell asleep almost as soon as I entered the school. I am going to make a plan of visualization, so I can monitor how far I can come before falling asleep.

Sweet dreams!

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## MasterMind

Fell asleep by visualizing, I woke up in the middle of the night because of the posture, but all I wanted to do on the awakening was to change posture and fall asleep.

Tonight I will use an affirmation and repeat it over and over such as "When I wake up I lay still and am aware" and hopefully I can fall back to sleep in this posture.

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## MasterMind

Went to bed late after watching the world cup, incredible game! O. O

Then I went to bed and I have found a way to fall asleep at command, atleast for me. And that is to take deep breaths and imagine that you get more relaxed and sink as you exhale. And that you on each breath get more and more relaxed, so it amplifies each time. I fall asleep really fast by doing this. Might be useful later on when I experience insomnia etc.

I actually did woke up in the middle of the night again, and once again I had too low willpower to stay in the posture, it's like my body forces me to switch position before entering deep sleep.

If I look at this information: THE BRAIN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM

I see that sleep is more complex than one think, and that dreaming actually seems to occur when we are about to wake up.
A theory proposed by Jean-Pol Tassin:

_Consciousness vanishes during sleep, yet dreams cannot exist unless we are conscious of them._ 

Right now I have a conclusion based on personal experience to the 

Statement: Laying still and remaining aware is all that is needed in order to enter a dream consciously.

No it seems to be something else needed, such as a different state of mind.
And even if the statement was in theory correct. If one manages to lay still for a long period of time (+3 hours) and remain aware one would be able to enter a dream consciously. Well that is not very practical, to WILD at bedtime. It is a fun exercise, and could be accomplished if one is sleep/ REM-deprived, or as we might see in the future, if a person is able to attain a different state of mind quickly perhaps. But for now I leave the extreme.

Now I am not going to make more statements, but continue to ask questions:

I will continue with my Exploration 3: (Observing) What happens during deep sleep?

But my method now will be more simple:

_Go to bed, fall asleep in a comfortable posture with an alarm to wake me up 90 min later, observe the state of mind and get into the half-sitting posture and attempt to WILD from here._

My extreme attempts still has value, because I have found a way to remain aware, but also to relax deeply at command.
And I have also practised to endure the extreme relaxations sensations, emotions and urges.

Cya tomorrow!

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## FryingMan

> Then I went to bed and I have found a way to fall asleep at command, atleast for me. And that is to take deep breaths and imagine that you ge more relaxed and sink as you exhale. And that you on each breath get more and more relax, so it amplifies each time. I fall asleep really fast by doing this. Might be useful later on when I experience insomnia etc.



This is precisely my "sleep power dive" that I also "discovered."   For particularly tough back-to-sleep scenarios I add a mentally verbalized "self-hypnosis" track describing the process: "on each exhale, you become more and more relaxed, you sink deeper and deeper and you drift farther and farther away, more and more relaxed, deeper, deeper, farther, farther, <etc., repeat>"

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## MasterMind

Nice FryingMan! Yeah I got it from guided sleep hypnosis audio. Each time they told me to do that I fell asleep in a blink. 

It annoyed me then, but now I can use it as a sleep inducing tool.  ::D:

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## DreamyBear

I would like to say that, this is one of the best threads here on dreamviews for sure. Very inspiring indeed. I just feel like contribute to this thread a little since this is pretty much what I think dreamviews should be all about when it comes to dreaming.

Trial and error, for the win!

So, I have had the same kind of approach as you for some time now MasterMind. To try to fall asleep consciously. I haven't done this every night though. Since I usually just get 5-6 hours during my working days. But for those nights when I have trying to fall asleep consciously, I have notice this.

1:Itching body/warm and a really bad need for moving. 

Sometimes during this process, I have got an instant transition into a perfectly calm state where all these annoying symptoms are just gone. And then I feel like Im completely lost in my head fully aware that Im still in bed. And then my heart starts to go from slow beats to fast beats and I really struggling to keep my eyes closed, since they are flickering so much. And at that point were my eyes are going crazy, that's the point were I fail. Because I also feel my body getting more tense, so I always try to relax it during these intense moments. But havent manage to do it good enough yet.


I have noticed that the itching part of this is more of an mental state of impatient to the process of lying still, rather than someting that needs to be. In my last try to fall asleep counscious (aka WILDing). I lay still for an hour without the slightest noticing of any itching or urge to move. And before that attempt, I was not having any expectations in my mind at all. And I believe that, that was what helped me to not get restless at all. So to be goal driven during the actuall practice is something one have to let go of, to achive a goal in the end I believe. :tongue2: 

Well Good luck to you MasterMind, and keep up the good work! ::cheers::

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## Sensei

I wouldn't say that this is one of the best threads on DV until we see some results in the form of lucids. So far it is interesting, but has proved... Non lucid. No offense master.  :wink2:

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## DreamyBear

> I wouldn't say that this is one of the best threads on DV until we see some results in the form of lucids. So far it is interesting, but has proved... Non lucid. No offense master.



Hehe, well I would like to add that it is all the trial and errors that get us on the way we want. So no misstakes= no understanding, pretty much so. :smiley:

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## Sensei

> Hehe, well I would like to add that it is all the trial and errors that get us on the way we want. So no misstakes= no understanding, pretty much so.



I wouldn't say that trial and error is the only way to get on. A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from every one else's mistakes. 

I am not calling mastermind a fool, but I am saying that this is interesting, but so far has left us with no way to get lucid. Interesting, but not yet anything helpful for us. Helpful for mastermind, maybe. As they say though, the proof is in the pudding. We shall see if he makes us some pudding.  :tongue2: 

Also, there are a lot of "wrong ways" to go, it is better to study the right way rather than studying all the wrong ways. Trial and error works good, but it is not the only way.

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## MasterMind

_"Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”_ - Plato

I used to speak alot, and write to newbies and delude myself that I knew more about lucid dreaming than I actually did.

The reason to why I created this thread was to get completely naked and show that what I write here is what I think and know for myself because of *experience*.

But of course I also want to show for myself and other people that just because you fail it doesn't mean it's a failure. 

And that when you fail, you learn and when you learn you improve and continue to progress.

_"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool"_ - Shakespeare

But make no misstake, don't learn from me, because you can't. Knowledge is personal. So only get inspired to take your own journey.  ::meditate:: 

I am an extremist in everything I do, and what I get taught over and over again by life, is that everything needs balance.
So to only learn from other or to only learn on your own is equally bad.

I used to be on the "Only learn from others! Find the method that works for us all!" side of the scale.
This thread was my attempt to tip the scale and move over to  "Only learn yourself! Fiind your OWN personal method!" side.

I am doing this to get an idea of both sides and to find the balance.

At the moment I think this balance is reached by following the collected information about sleep and dreams on the forum DILD, WILD, WBTB, Science of sleep etc. But to challenge the beliefs about the impossible in order to reach the highest possible.

For example I have found a way (FOR ME) to remain aware no matter how sleep deprived or tired I might be, and this method is obviously very useful during a WBTB as well. Among other things!

What I am doing is to knowingly make myself experience adversity, in order to learn from it.

Why? Because I learned this from picking up chicks.  ::content:: 

If you are concerned with how your hair looks while talking to girls, mess it up on purpose, wear ugly clothes and make sure that you never again will be troubled by your looks. They should like you for your social skills and who you are, not how you look.

If you are concerned with falling asleep unconsciously during your WILD attempts in the night, then do your attempts on purpose in the worst conditions, when you are super tired in the beginning of the night and never again be troubled by what state of mind you are in.
You should be able to stay aware because of skill and because you know how, not because it is the perfect timing in the night.

Cya tomorrow.  :wink2:

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## DreamyBear

Sensei: I freaking love pudding! ::D: 

MasterMind: It's awesome that you take your own path in your Lucid dreaming, I think everyone should try to do that when they got the basic of lucid dreaming. Well I think everyone can pick up some advice from your experiments here, and I will continue to follow this thread with excitement! :smiley:  

C ya guys!

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## Sensei

Mastermind. 

I don't know if you are calling me a fool or not, but I speak from my own experience and the experience of those I trust to be true. I try not to spout out long "popular ideas" about LDing, but I try to find "common truths that connects to every LDer."

You edited your post.  :tongue2:  I believe very much that you need to find your own way to LD, but as you say, you need to find a balance. Some of what you were saying seems to contradict this, but some fundamentals and original knowledge needs to be had. Some original teacher. However, every single master has his own way of LDing. 

The big reason that I like this thread is because you are taking something that we all know is possible but difficult, and saying "f you" to the norm. You are using your own experience and theories to complete this. I wouldn't call it "best" I would call it "worthwhile".

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## Sensei

Didn't mean to close thread. My phone accidentally hit that button. :/ sorry for the inconvenience.

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## Mzzkc

DV NAZI STAFF STRIKES AGAIN!

lol, jk

But seriously: this thread is fantastic because it's singularly focused on experimentation at a personal level. It's inspiring, and will get newbies motivated to start their own rounds of testing. And that's hands-down the _best_ way to learn this stuff.

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## MasterMind

*Low Willpower*

I went to sleep around 23:10 and I actually choosed to fall asleep in my half-sitting posture and as usual I woke up in the middle of the night, but I just fell back to sleep.
Then the 90 min alarm woke me up, but I didn't stay up for long, I basically snoozed, although I had to get up to turn it off. But I had too low willpower or perhaps alertness to arrange my pillows and attempt to WILD. I just fell asleep on my side, I didn't even used a mantra or anything.

I woke up 04:41, 08:29 and recorded my dreams. Vivid dreams that I rememebered because I was very aware in them.

Tonight I am going to put a big note on my alarm that says "STAY UP FOR 5 MINUTES YOU LAZY SON OF A [email protected]#!!" to make me remember...  :tongue2:

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## MasterMind

Well.. Two nights of partying ahead. (Dam* friends preventing me from dreaming..)  :tongue2: 

But I will still use my posture at bedtime and attempt to WILD, if I fall asleep unconsciously (which I will), I'll use the awakening. 
And the 90 min alarm will be my most hated object the coming morning, however as I said do the hard to make the "easy" easier. 
Aim for the moon and reach the stars. *

What I mean by that is that I will probably go to sleep around 03:00 or 04:00 tonight and my willpower will be even lower than my previos night when I get up. So this is the perfect test to see if a note will be enough for my grumpy self to stay up 5 minutes, we'll see.

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## MasterMind

Last night I actually went up and took a short WBTB by going to the bathroom, but I had too low willpower to arrange my pillow on my WILD attempt. 
The most important step for my awareness, so tonight I will add another note for my low willpowered self: "Fix Your Pillows You Arrogant *$#!"

And we'll see what happens.  :smiley:

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## Sensei

I freaking hate when I wake up and realize that I was too lazy to do my techniques. It makes me want to beat previous me with a big stick.

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## MasterMind

Today I did a kind of strange discovery that kind of makes me question my whole approach to WILDing.

Now I have stretched my attempt for a time of 90 min, but something that has happened now for several nights is me having a really vivid, life like dream and waking up from it. And I always wake up at the same time: Around 04:21.

I read an article on sleep and it said: _"Regardless of when you fall asleep, people tend to experience more NREM sleep in the earlier hours of the night (e.g., 11p – 3a) and more REM sleep in the later hours of the night (e.g., 3a – 7 a)."_ 

Regardless of when you fall asleep...
Regardless of when you fall asleep..
Regardless of when you fall asleep.
*Regardless of when you fall asleep!!!!*

The article can be found here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ycle-revealed*

I have experienced long lucid dreams and woke up around 02:00 but why make it harder?

I am always WILDing at my bedtime, but I can take advantage of this fact and try to wake back to bed at a different time. 

The absolute best feeling I know when it comes to lucid dreaming, is the awareness and feeling in your mind that you feel when you wake up in REM, you just know that all you have to do is to close your eyes and imagine something and it will appear with no effort, and 3 seconds later you stand in your vizualisation.

I think I am going to test the articles idea of expecting REM in the later night.

If this is correct, it's a big win, because then I still don't have worry about when i am going to sleep, I know where my window is.

My Exploration 3 was to answer the question of: (Observing) What happens during deep sleep?

The problem however was that I was never in deep sleep to begin with! That is why I now have to change my approach.

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## MasterMind

Going to have a new approach, because I feel like I am too result oriented.

I have explored the technical stuff, like what to actually do to get a lucid dream. And now I am going to observe the mindset.
I am doing a 30 day challenge of no fap and meditation, and I basically think if I have done that today I am happy, no need to think about it anymore.
The benefit of this is really high for me because I have an overanalyzing brain.

So what I am going to do now is to lower my critera of success. 

My only goal is to practise lucid dreaming consistently for 30 nights in a row. If no lucid dream is attained during these 30 days I will go back to the practical stuff again.
But right now I need to stop thinking about the process and just let it happen.

I will still write down my experiences of course, but not analyze as much. Also I will only write positive things about my practise, nothing negative, because that is another 30 day challenge that I am doing: Reframe negative thoughts into positive.  :smiley: 

Cya!

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## MasterMind

Oh god...

Had two lucid dreams this night!  ::content::  It seems like the idea of not trying is the best, but how do you do that? 
I both love and hate this principle. Because how do you not try on purpose? It contradicts itself! 

But I guess it goes back to Yoda's old quote "Do! There is no try." 

And that is what the 30 Day Challenge forces you to do.

A little from my lucid dreams: 

I went to bed 22:31 and I was lying on my back and I just started to meditate, not with the focus of being aware of my breathing or stop thinking, but rather on observing the thoughts that came and not judge them, I did this however by focusing on the breath. At some point I did fall asleep.

I was then waking in my house and as I walked around I got a feeling that something was not quite right, and then I realized that it was not my real house, but my awareness somehow tricked me back to non-awareness and I screamed "F*ck you (myself) this is my dream!" I started to run around excited by the fact that it was a dream. I then jumped up into the air and flew, I thought about sex and had some vivid sex vizualisation, and then the world faded away and I was back in my bed. I check the time and the time was 00:49.

Then as I got back to sleep and into a dream, I was in another location and I was trying to WILD, since I in the dream expected to end up in a dream, even though I already was, I now got lucid. This lucidity didn't lasted for long though but I had some weird but vivid normal dream after that.

I will start checking off my boxes today.

Cya!

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## MasterMind

Ok to round of this thread. Right now I got lots of of things on my mind so I have to make lucid dreaming simple and effortless.

My focus now is not to get a lucid dream, that is a bonus. My focus is to just follow the actions constently and refine them as I go.

Here is what I do:

Meditate daily 
Meditate myself to sleep
WBTB 6 hours and 20 minutes after going to sleep
WILD
Recall Dreams

And the most important thing is the mindset, don't try to get any result, just do the actions. (That is why I made it a 30 Day Challenge.)

It became a long detour to arrive where we started. However as you can see I learned alot along the way, and now the knowledge is my experience not just a recited theory.

You can follow my progress in my DJ from now.

Sweet dreams to the rest of you!  :wink2:

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## Sensei

Mastermind. Have you checked out my secrets thread? 

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...s-secrets.html

In it I say something to the effect of "you cannot make yourself lucid dream, but you can greatly improve the odds." If you look at it this way, then it doesn't matter that you didn't get lucid last night since you didn't work hard enough, the odds might have just missed, and all of your work (or meditation, awareness, etc) will build up, so there is nothing to worry about.  :smiley:  hope this tldr version makes sense.  ::D: 

Good luck getting lucid. May the odds be ever in your favor.  :wink2:

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## MasterMind

Thank you Sensei. May the force be with you, always.  ::meditate::

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## HeWhoShapes

Wow dude your'e posts make it sound all easy and stuff, the thing is I have a huge ego and pretty horrible self asteem so I really have to work hard on this  ::blue::   ::morecrying::

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## MasterMind

Believe me... Nothing worth having comes easy, and in order to learn something you need to have hard lessons.

I have a huge pile of failures, but I stand on them to reach what's possible.

And if you are inspired by me, I am glad, but you should know that I am a BIG overanalyzer and thinker which creates lots of problems, I still fight with not identifying with my self-image, but whatever disorders I might have, there is always one thing I have control over, and that is the choice to take action.

So surround yourself with people that supports these standards, but since it is most likely that you are currently not surrounded with people with a mind wired in this way:

There is always Youtube  :wink2:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrx...oyqrOfoZoyoYCg

Oh and when you elevate you can help other people to grow as well.

Have fun!

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## HeWhoShapes

> Believe me... Nothing worth having comes easy, and in order to learn something you need to have hard lessons.
> 
> I have a huge pile of failures, but I stand on them to reach what's possible.
> 
> And if you are inspired by me, I am glad, but you should know that I am a BIG overanalyzer and thinker which creates lots of problems, I still fight with not identifying with my self-image, but whatever disorders I might have, there is always one thing I have control over, and that is the choice to take action.
> 
> So surround yourself with people that supports these standards, but since it is most likely that you are currently not surrounded with people with a mind wired in this way:
> 
> There is always Youtube  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrx...oyqrOfoZoyoYCg
> ...



Yeah I know, I did take my sweet ass time in responding, sorry  ::lol:: 
The video is actually really good and it made me feel motivated so that's good  :smiley: 

And I don't worry, we all have problems somtimes I can be an overanlyzer too but i'll try to do more stuff with my life instead since I only live once  :smiley: 

So yeah, thanks for everything  ::goodjob::

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## MasterMind

I totally forgot about this thread! I guess we all need breaks every now and then. 

But I am back and now I am more determined than ever because I have seen a clear progression. 

I also got a little bonus for you. I now share my experiments through videos! Almost daily!





Enjoy!

Ps. After re-reading this thread I realized that most of my problems and issues was solved by regular 20 min of meditation. 

I love that irony, the solution was to do nothing.  :tongue2: 

 ::meditate::

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