# Lucid Dreaming > General Lucid Discussion >  >  Lucid Dreams and Time

## user5659

I believe everybody had dreams or lucid dreams where in your dream you lived more then a day or even more then a week. I wonder how this happens and why? 

The main purpose of this thread is to get as many long-dream stories as possible and from there we all can make a conclusion for our self. It may be one very long dream, or many short dreams or anything that you feel was a long-dreaming experience.

Share your long dream stories and don't forget to mention how long were you sleeping and how detailed your dream was. Perhaps you might want to answer on one of the following questions:
How fast is time running in our dreams?
Is there a fixed time speed in our dream or do we determine how time flows in our dreams?

If you have any additional questions to add to the OP, i would be glad to add them.
Here is my latest long dream: A Little Life in One Dream | flow of my soul


Related Topics:
http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...cid-dream.html
http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...d-ability.html

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## dutchraptor

Laberge showed us that we perceive time in a dream almost identically to real life, that is when you don't try to change it. I've tried a few times but I've never been able to lengthen my dreams at all, the only times my dreams have felt longer than I slept was when I was either in a non-lucid or semi-lucid state. Whenever I am in a fully lucid state, I cannot change the pace at which the dream run (I can make it seem visually slower, but it doesn't achieve the same effect). Or I at least can't sustain any dilating effects long enough. 
In my opinion the possibility of time dilation is extremely low, but some people swear by it. If it actually existed I'm surprised no one has ever decided to utilize all that extra time, or try bring the time dilation into waking life.

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## Box77

I think it could seem a long time because of perhaps we use to take shortcuts from main frames to main frames and we don't spend much time in the middle. I mean, if I dream about making a cake, I could dream about setting up the ingredients first, then mixing some, and finally putting the cake on the table to have some problems to get a piece of it. In WL that could last hours, in a dream just a couple of minutes. Another possibility is that perhaps we didn't dream the whole story in one day, and we are connecting past dreams until we finally conclude the sequence and remember all the story in the last day of the dream. I don't know.
Anyway, the latest longer period of dream events I had during a dream were almost 3 days in a row for an alcoholic little party.

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## user5659

> Laberge showed us that we perceive time in a dream almost identically to real life, that is when you don't try to change it. I've tried a few times but I've never been able to lengthen my dreams at all, the only times my dreams have felt longer than I slept was when I was either in a non-lucid or semi-lucid state. Whenever I am in a fully lucid state, I cannot change the pace at which the dream run (I can make it seem visually slower, but it doesn't achieve the same effect). Or I at least can't sustain any dilating effects long enough. 
> In my opinion the possibility of time dilation is extremely low, but some people swear by it. If it actually existed I'm surprised no one has ever decided to utilize all that extra time, or try bring the time dilation into waking life.



Never tried to lengthen my lucid dreams on purpose, it just happens when it happens. But during when it happens i can already understand that this dream is taking too long and it is running slower, so i have time to observe everything in details. 
It may exist in dream but it may not exist in real life.

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## user5659

> I think it could seem a long time because of perhaps we use to take shortcuts from main frames to main frames and we don't spend much time in the middle. I mean, if I dream about making a cake, I could dream about setting up the ingredients first, then mixing some, and finally putting the cake on the table to have some problems to get a piece of it. In WL that could last hours, in a dream just a couple of minutes. Another possibility is that perhaps we didn't dream the whole story in one day, and we are connecting past dreams until we finally conclude the sequence and remember all the story in the last day of the dream. I don't know.
> Anyway, the latest longer period of dream events I had during a dream were almost 3 days in a row for an alcoholic little party.



You can apply the same main frame analysis to our usual past day memories, you usually remember main events but you slightly remember small details. What if you try to think of every small details in your dream and you can recall most of it like you would recall last day real life event. I think this is how our memories work and does not answer the question.

I do not think we connect our dreams into one big story, because usually when i wake up i recall or forget dream during first 10 minutes. After that i usually have no chance to recall it again if i did not recall it during those first 10 minutes. I doubt that it would recall it self during next dream.

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## Raen

> You can apply the same main frame analysis to our usual past day memories, you usually remember main events but you slightly remember small details. What if you try to think of every small details in your dream and you can recall most of it like you would recall last day real life event. I think this is how our memories work and does not answer the question.
> 
> I do not think we connect our dreams into one big story, because usually when i wake up i recall or forget dream during first 10 minutes. After that i usually have no chance to recall it again if i did not recall it during those first 10 minutes. I doubt that it would recall it self during next dream.



You may be forgetting it on a conscious level, but maybe you remember it on a subconscious level. And time-dilation appears to happen in dreams because, as Box said, the dream doesn't include every single tiny detail. It's like what happens in a film with a montage. You can tell that the characters have spent a long time, days, weeks or months on a certain project but in reality you've only been watching their progress for 2 or 3 minutes. It's definitely an interesting concept  :smiley:

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## user5659

> You may be forgetting it on a conscious level, but maybe you remember it on a subconscious level. And time-dilation appears to happen in dreams because, as Box said, the dream doesn't include every single tiny detail. It's like what happens in a film with a montage. You can tell that the characters have spent a long time, days, weeks or months on a certain project but in reality you've only been watching their progress for 2 or 3 minutes. It's definitely an interesting concept



It is an interesting explanation, but i feel that it is not the case. For example in my last dream these events were connected. I took samurai with me from war to beach and taught him how to surf. And i had my samurai swords with me all the dream, in the beginning, at war and in the end again in my starting point.

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## Box77

^ I don't find major difference between the way I remember the events in a dream and my real life memories. They both take away irrelevant details. The only difference I find is those irrelevant details doesn't seem to last long during a dream (if there are some) rather than in real life. I can summarize a couple of days of my life in some minutes without loosing continuity and relevant detail.

i.e. In your dream you say you dreamed a whole day... surfing? Do you mean did you go to eat? Did you have the urge to go to the bathroom? Did you take a nap or have to do other things besides surfing? Did the sun move? Did it get cold or there was a time for the waters to calm down? Do you remember all those things or you have _the feeling_ that you spent the whole day doing things besides surfing?

I'm not taking the going to sleep sequence since it's just a blink of an eye to change the dream-scene.

As far as I'm concerned, time perception is something subjective and it's related to our own psyche more than real time duration. Some minutes of a boring work seem to last an hour and an hour before going to a boring job runs like a couple of minutes.

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## user5659

> i.e. In your dream you say you dreamed a whole day... surfing? Do you mean did you go to eat? Did you have the urge to go to the bathroom? Did you take a nap or have to do other things besides surfing? Did the sun move? Did it get cold or there was a time for the waters to calm down? Do you remember all those things or you have _the feeling_ that you spent the whole day doing things besides surfing?
> 
> I'm not taking the going to sleep sequence since it's just a blink of an eye to change the dream-scene.



I knew somebody would ask this question, well look at my post it is already very big, and people do not like to read that long dreams. Imagine how big it would be if i would describe everything that happened during those 7 days. I remember that we had a campfire and we made some barbecue, i remember how i went to trees/forest behind to find what kind of animals are living there. Few days i did not surf at all, i remember a lot of talking, everybody gathered in the evening and everybody had some kind of discussions. I also remember few moments from evenings where i looked around the house to find something interesting there. However i do not remember every single detail of that dream, some moments are left blank in memory.

It is not about how much details i remember, it is that feeling that i witnessed too many events during only 1 night of sleep (11 hours). This feeling reminds me of some hard university research where i had to read a lot of complex things and then i felt kinda over loaded with information.

I am sure i am not the only one who experienced similar dreams, i already spoke to few people in chat and they told me some interesting stories.

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## user5659

And to add, this was not the longest dream, this is the only long dream that i wrote in my blog. During 6 years of lucid dreaming almost every day i never had a DJ, only few month ago when i decided to come back to lucid dreaming i also decided to write my most interesting dreams to my blog. And sorry for my English, i might express my self in a wrong way, let me know if you are confused about anything i wrote and i will try to clarify that for you.

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## Sageous

Can I add a quick, annoying aside?

Perhaps, *Flowofmysoul*, you should have listed your OP without any questions, and just requested that people share their dilated-time dreams here.

That would have been a cool thread, and would have saved the time these knowledgeable folks spent telling you things you're clearly not interested in hearing.  These guys have consistently given you thoughtful information based on experience, hard knowledge, logic, and conclusions drawn from the many other time-dilation threads, yet you told them with confidence that they were wrong every step of the way. 

If you are sure that what happened actually did happen, and there's no refuting it, then why ask if it can be refuted? I know you didn't do this specifically, but those two questions in your OP definitely opened the door. 

I'm asking this question respectfully, in the hopes that you might turn this thread toward what I think is your real goal (getting other dreamers to share their long-dream experiences) rather than yet another tedious argument about whether dream time-dilation is real or not.

I also ask this question selfishly, because it's a fun subject and I'm fairly up on the pros and cons part...

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## user5659

> Can I add a quick, annoying aside?
> 
> Perhaps, *Flowofmysoul*, you should have listed your OP without any questions, and just requested that people share their dilated-time dreams here.
> 
> That would have been a cool thread, and would have saved the time these knowledgeable folks spent telling you things you're clearly not interested in hearing.  These guys have consistently given you thoughtful information based on experience, hard knowledge, logic, and conclusions drawn from the many other time-dilation threads, yet you told them with confidence that they were wrong every step of the way. 
> 
> If you are sure that what happened actually did happen, and there's no refuting it, then why ask if it can be refuted? I know you didn't do this specifically, but those two questions in your OP definitely opened the door. 
> 
> I'm asking this question respectfully, in the hopes that you might turn this thread toward what I think is your real goal (getting other dreamers to share their long-dream experiences) rather than yet another tedious argument about whether dream time-dilation is real or not.
> ...



I am sorry if i sounded too confident, but every input for me is important and i am thankful to everybody who responded to this thread. I edited OP and mentioned the main purpose of this thread and if you have any additional questions that you would like to add, i would be happy to do that. I would be happy to add any similar thread in the OP too, if you know any please give me a link.

Yes the main target of this thread is to get as many stories of long-dream experience as possible, from there we can make a conclusion for our self. I did not aim to start argument about dream time-dilation, personally i believe it is not time-dilatation, it is how we perceive time when we sleep. Those two questions that i mentioned is what i want to answer, so the more stories i will have the better answer i can form for my self, and i think everybody can.

Looking forward to hear more long-dream stories  :smiley:

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## Sensei

long dreams:
Zombies!!! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
Two Weeks of Dream Time - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Those are both non lucid, but I did spend about a week and a half of dream time in a Lucid dream helping DCs against a ghost. I had to pretend everything was real, and when things were going against me and I couldn't save people in time, I would change reality quickly and in a way that made it look like it wasn't a dream world. They were all really nice, so I didn't want them to know that they weren't real.

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## realdealmagic

I think a lot of time dilation is to do with false memories, things you haven't actually experienced, but remember from the dream as memories.

Check out *this really interesting thread* with good discussion on time dilation!

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## user5659

> I think a lot of time dilation is to do with false memories, things you haven't actually experienced, but remember from the dream as memories.
> 
> Check out *this really interesting thread* with good discussion on time dilation!



Thx, added this topic to the OP. I do not know if it is possible to slow time on purpose because i never tried to do it. Just happened randomly to me, but when it happened i very clearly understood that this dream is going to be long.
Added one more related thread where member of DV claims that he was dreaming for 2 years and he did that on purpose.

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## Hitokage

When I had LD sometimes in the morning when I woke up and fell asleep again I could feel the time running the same way as normally. I was aware of my body in the bed (you know those half sleep states) and I was in the dream at the same time and I didn't see any differences between time in my bed and in the dream. 
Another experiment I tried was to check the time when I woke up and fell asleep again and after that check the time again. Never got any time dilatations. Sometimes it feels like you spent much longer time in the dream but as somebody here already said, it is caused by memory error.
I clearly remember some dreams that were like a day or so but when I went through the memories I realized that it just seems like that but in fact it is just that I had memories that were specific for all parts of the day but it was just like fragments. Just short memories that may seem when you look at them after that like a whole day. Brain just connects them together. When you analyze that you see that many things are missing and some of the memories are not even events just some symbols or words.

I also heard a theory that the brain is extremely active during a dream (more than in awake state, is that true btw?) thus you can experience more things in the same time and in the end it is like you lived a minute in dream and a second in real life. Reminds me Inception hehe.

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## user5659

> When I had LD sometimes in the morning when I woke up and fell asleep again I could feel the time running the same way as normally. I was aware of my body in the bed (you know those half sleep states) and I was in the dream at the same time and I didn't see any differences between time in my bed and in the dream. 
> Another experiment I tried was to check the time when I woke up and fell asleep again and after that check the time again. Never got any time dilatations. Sometimes it feels like you spent much longer time in the dream but as somebody here already said, it is caused by memory error.
> I clearly remember some dreams that were like a day or so but when I went through the memories I realized that it just seems like that but in fact it is just that I had memories that were specific for all parts of the day but it was just like fragments. Just short memories that may seem when you look at them after that like a whole day. Brain just connects them together. When you analyze that you see that many things are missing and some of the memories are not even events just some symbols or words.
> 
> I also heard a theory that the brain is extremely active during a dream (more than in awake state, is that true btw?) thus you can experience more things in the same time and in the end it is like you lived a minute in dream and a second in real life. Reminds me Inception hehe.



You are absolutely right about how time passes when you go back to sleep in the morning. I am talking about something different, when you go to sleep and sleep for a long period, when you start getting really long dreams. Sometimes you will get huge amount of fragments, really really huge amount that is really hard to remember all together. I also tried to measure time in the morning and it is just like usual time flow.

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## Hitokage

> You are absolutely right about how time passes when you go back to sleep in the morning. I am talking about something different, when you go to sleep and sleep for a long period, when you start getting really long dreams. Sometimes you will get huge amount of fragments, really really huge amount that is really hard to remember all together. I also tried to measure time in the morning and it is just like usual time flow.



I actually think it is still the same the whole night. As I said, just our memory is acting weird.

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## user5659

Maybe you are right, maybe not, but I will keep looking for answers on this question. Next time I will have such a dreams I will try to learn everything in details.

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## Hitokage

> Maybe you are right, maybe not, but I will keep looking for answers on this question. Next time I will have such a dreams I will try to learn everything in details.



Yeah. Let us know here. ^^

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## duke396

To me it seems relative? I mean as far as having "long" dreams I think I perceive the dream as longer when I remember more details.  When I have a dream fragment do I think I was in the dream world for less time? Not necessarily. It could be that I woke up a lot or it just slipped my mind. I think time tends to pass at a normal perceived rate, but it seems like I can get more things done in less time because of what someone else mentioned about skipping parts of the process. I suppose if you were lucid it's not out of the question to manipulate the flow of time, but I haven't tried that on a large scale (just made one feisty dude age really fast lol).  Interesting discussion...  I don't know if this is really related but I can't think of a time where I had a full transition from day to night or vice versa. I have had dreams that cover longer amounts of time but it's more of a ghost of Christmas future type thing...  Here's you now, boom it's 10 hours/days/years later. I'll have to search my journals for any exceptions to this, I'm curious now. 

Actually I had a dream once that involved me seeing an old version of myself (old as in like 90 years old, didn't know the old guy was me at this point.)  then as the dream progressed I became the old version of me and saw the young me in the same way that the old me was originally seen. I don't know whether to attribute it to the aging process being screwed up or accelerated time, because in the dream itself it didn't seem like an incredibly long time. Either way it was pretty darn creepy.

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## user5659

> To me it seems relative? I mean as far as having "long" dreams I think I perceive the dream as longer when I remember more details.  When I have a dream fragment do I think I was in the dream world for less time? Not necessarily. It could be that I woke up a lot or it just slipped my mind. I think time tends to pass at a normal perceived rate, but it seems like I can get more things done in less time because of what someone else mentioned about skipping parts of the process. I suppose if you were lucid it's not out of the question to manipulate the flow of time, but I haven't tried that on a large scale (just made one feisty dude age really fast lol).  Interesting discussion...  I don't know if this is really related but I can't think of a time where I had a full transition from day to night or vice versa. I have had dreams that cover longer amounts of time but it's more of a ghost of Christmas future type thing...  Here's you now, boom it's 10 hours/days/years later. I'll have to search my journals for any exceptions to this, I'm curious now. 
> 
> Actually I had a dream once that involved me seeing an old version of myself (old as in like 90 years old, didn't know the old guy was me at this point.)  then as the dream progressed I became the old version of me and saw the young me in the same way that the old me was originally seen. I don't know whether to attribute it to the aging process being screwed up or accelerated time, because in the dream itself it didn't seem like an incredibly long time. Either way it was pretty darn creepy.



Cool, never had experience where I saw version of old me. I had couple of dreams where I thought it was older me, but I was not sure. Had a lot of jumps in time, I appeared in old times, castles and knights and then I saw that there were wizards there, I wanted to go forward in time but in the same dream, appeared somewhere in future and did not find any wizards there, that's why I was not sure whether it is the same dream in future or a new dream of future in a new world.

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## duke396

Well that's pretty interesting, I've always wanted to travel forward or backward in time in a dream but mine seem to always be set in "modern day" or present themselves in a way that I either can't tell or it doesn't matter what time period it is.  Also in relation to the speed of time, I was just reading in my DJ earlier and it mentioned (in a non-lucid dream) a mask I took from an adversary which had the power to alter gravity and slow down the passage of time around me.  Odd.

I thought the old man dream I mentioned above was in my DJ but it wasn't, so I just now added it in case you or someone else wanted the full version.

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## Box77

Once I traveled to the future using a surf board on a bus  ::D: . I wasn't able to find the older version of myself, although it was fun the way my mind came up with the future version of the place where I lived. There, my older version apparently was going to burn all my drawings, I left a message on the table asking me not to do that because of I saw many ideas which later I drew for real, then I went back.

Talking about how time flies, I was thinking about the speed of thoughts and perhaps it's involved too the ability of the brain to think without words, it takes less time to build whole ideas than what usually we do when paragraphing. As @Hitokage said, perhaps the brain is fully active during dreams and it's working that way to build lot of details in 'just one shot'. It could explain the huge amount of details in short time.

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## user5659

> Once I traveled to the future using a surf board on a bus . I wasn't able to find the older version of myself, although it was fun the way my mind came up with the future version of the place where I lived. There, my older version apparently was going to burn all my drawings, I left a message on the table asking me not to do that because of I saw many ideas which later I drew for real, then I went back.
> 
> Talking about how time flies, I was thinking about the speed of thoughts and perhaps it's involved too the ability of the brain to think without words, it takes less time to build whole ideas than what usually we do when paragraphing. As @Hitokage said, perhaps the brain is fully active during dreams and it's working that way to build lot of details in 'just one shot'. It could explain the huge amount of details in short time.



It could also explain why greatest scientist got their innovative ideas during dreaming. When you are dedicated to some subject you will be dreaming on it every night, so why do we have to throw away 30% of our life to void? We can work at night too  :smiley:

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## user5659

Update*

Last night I went to sleep really late, at around 6 am, I had to wake up at 8. So I had only 2 hours of sleep, decided to make some kind of test If I could use lucid dreaming to prolong my rest. That morning I had to drive 250 km's to one town and then 250 km's back and with only 2 hour of sleep that would be a tragedy. I am drinking only water and tea, I do not drink coffee at all, only if I really really need one. 

So I went to sleep with the Idea that I want to prolong my dream. I decided not to focus on it at all, until I see my nREM dream, you can call it nREM WILD. So I closed my eyes and I was very sleepy at that time, so it took me around few minutes to completely relax and I started to see first images of my nREM dream, I was already there dreaming, but still could use my conscious mind to think, so this is the best time to actually focus on my target. I changed my dream couple of times to make sure I have control of it, then I said to my self "I am going to sleep 10 hours, I am already sleeping around 8 hours, It is time to wake up in few hours" I continued to observe my dreams, I did not control much, I was trying to relax and watch my dream and all I thought about was that I am already sleeping for a long time and soon it is time to wake up. I woke up few times, at that time I was already sleeping for around 40 minutes. You might think I am crazy but already after 40 minutes of sleep I felt completely rested. I went back to sleep just because I had 1 hour and 20 minutes more. I woke up around 5-6 times more and every time I felt better and better, I finally woke after total of 1 hour and 30 minutes of sleep and I did not want to sleep anymore, I tried to go back to sleep but I felt that I cannot sleep anymore and, already slept enough. So fuck yea it is completely possible to use lucid dreaming to rest faster when needed. I understand that this might be only in my head, but now it is 5 pm and I still feel completely rested.

I can recall around 8 very short nREM fragments(around 10 seconds each) and around 3 short REM LD's(not more then 5-10 minutes each). Nothing special, just a short version of my everyday dreaming, but I still feel like I slept all 10 hours.

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## Sensei

Flow, you should try to keep doing this for a few weeks and see if you can get more good results. This could be a major breakthrough in sleep if we can get a few different people that can testify to this.  :smiley:

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## user5659

> Flow, you should try to keep doing this for a few weeks and see if you can get more good results. This could be a major breakthrough in sleep if we can get a few different people that can testify to this.



I have work, wife, martial arts, gym, run... I cant afford breaking my sleep schedule. But we have a lot of DV members who might try this one day if needed.

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## bro

> a major breakthrough in sleep if we can get a few different people that can testify to this.



 I can testify to this effect as well & it is well known. FlowofMySoul mentioned getting very little sleep before the day he felt rested & his lucid dreams. I did this intentionally for a few weeks (3 hour core sleep, with REM naps) a year or two ago. Very good results.

I think the term is an "everyman" type sleep schedule. A short core sleep with naps interspersed throughout the day. A great way to get into REM very quickly and for us lucid dreamers, a lucid dream. I think his "rested" feeling was a result of getting that prized REM during his naps. 

Unless you have an extraordinary amount of time on your hands though, be careful intentionally depriving for later REM. It might not be sustainable. For me it was not.

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## Box77

Apparently it has to deal with timing more than time dilation. It's called 'polyphasic sleep schedules'. Usually your own body adjusts it to your needs when you cannot have a monophasic schedule. 
Basically, if for some reason you cannot sleep as we learned to normally do (around 8 hours in a row), when you feel the need to take a nap along the day, just take it and sleep until you naturally wake up or something like that.

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## user5659

> I can testify to this effect as well & it is well known. FlowofMySoul mentioned getting very little sleep before the day he felt rested & his lucid dreams. I did this intentionally for a few weeks (3 hour core sleep, with REM naps) a year or two ago. Very good results.
> 
> I think the term is an "everyman" type sleep schedule. A short core sleep with naps interspersed throughout the day. A great way to get into REM very quickly and for us lucid dreamers, a lucid dream. I think his "rested" feeling was a result of getting that prized REM during his naps. 
> 
> Unless you have an extraordinary amount of time on your hands though, be careful intentionally depriving for later REM. It might not be sustainable. For me it was not.



Glad to hear you experienced the same.

At the moment I sleep only once per day, around 7 to 9 hours, this is called Monophasic Sleep. Mainly because of my busy schedule, I want to do so much and I have so little time. So this 2 hour fast sleep was an exclusion, I had to go to work and I had only 2 hours to sleep. Usually I sleep my 7-9 hours every night.

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## user5659

> Apparently it has to deal with timing more than time dilation. It's called 'polyphasic sleep schedules'. Usually your own body adjusts it to your needs when you cannot have a monophasic schedule. 
> Basically, if for some reason you cannot sleep as we learned to normally do (around 8 hours in a row), when you feel the need to take a nap along the day, just take it and sleep until you naturally wake up or something like that.



First of all thanks for amazing link, I am going to read all the info there. At the moment I have Monophasic Sleep, so 7 to 9 hours every night. So my body did not have time to adjust to this type of sleeping, that day I woke up as usual at 8 AM and did not sleep until 6 AM of next day, followed by 1 hour and 30 minutes of sleep, woke up at 8 and went to work. Last time I did that was around a year ago.

But, around 5-6 years ago I had such a broken sleep schedule, that is the same time when I started lucid dreaming. I always randomly slept at any time during the day. I often did not sleep for 48 hours, followed by 20+ hours of sleep without wake ups. I am not saying that it is good, but I was young and did not have any responsibilities, was living every day as a new and last day. At some point I was sleeping by small naps, 1-2 hours naps during the day and my body got used to that schedule and I was feeling good with that kind of sleep. Well those times are far away in past now.

I will learn everything about those sleep schedules and how they affect lucid dreaming. What I payed attention to is that during long sleeps our every REM cycles is longer then the previous one, so it means that the longest dream will be accruing at the end of our sleep time. If we switch to shorter sleep cycles, for example if we split our sleep into two 3.5 hours of sleep then our longest REM will be exactly twice shorter then it would be in 7 hour sleep. Also I am sometimes questioning if there is any difference between nREM Lucid Dreams and REM Lucid Dreams, this is what I am experimenting with now. I am trying to figure out main differences between those two type of dreams.

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## user5659

> Apparently it has to deal with timing more than time dilation. It's called 'polyphasic sleep schedules'. Usually your own body adjusts it to your needs when you cannot have a monophasic schedule. 
> Basically, if for some reason you cannot sleep as we learned to normally do (around 8 hours in a row), when you feel the need to take a nap along the day, just take it and sleep until you naturally wake up or something like that.



First of all thanks for amazing link, I am going to read all the info there. At the moment I have Monophasic Sleep, so 7 to 9 hours every night. So my body did not have time to adjust to this type of sleeping, that day I woke up as usual at 8 AM and did not sleep until 6 AM of next day, followed by 1 hour and 30 minutes of sleep, woke up at 8 and went to work. Last time I did that was around a year ago.

But, around 5-6 years ago I had such a broken sleep schedule, that is the same time when I started lucid dreaming. I always randomly slept at any time during the day. I often did not sleep for 48 hours, followed by 20+ hours of sleep without wake ups. I am not saying that it is good, but I was young and did not have any responsibilities, was living every day as a new and last day. At some point I was sleeping by small naps, 1-2 hours naps during the day and my body got used to that schedule and I was feeling good with that kind of sleep. Well those times are far away in past now.

I will learn everything about those sleep schedules and how they affect lucid dreaming. What I payed attention to is that during long sleeps our every REM cycles is longer then the previous one, so it means that the longest dream will be accruing at the end of our sleep time. If we switch to shorter sleep cycles, for example if we split our sleep into two 3.5 hours of sleep then our longest REM will be exactly twice shorter then it would be in 7 hour sleep. Also I am sometimes questioning if there is any difference between nREM Lucid Dreams and REM Lucid Dreams, this is what I am experimenting with now. I am trying to figure out main differences between those two type of dreams.

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## Sensei

I know of polyphasic sleep cycles. I have completely studied them. If you actually read what flowofmysoul wrote you will see that he didn't get any naps or anything else. He just slept 2 hours one day and had just as many dreams as he normally does with 7-9. That is still monophasic. 

Everyman schedule is always 20-30 minutes 6 times a day. A 3 hour core and rem naps is still polyphasic, but not the everyman schedule, with the everyman schedule you will never sleep more than 8 hours a day.

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## Box77

Didn´t the theory about polyphasic sleep schedules rely specially on the fact that a single sleep cycle lasts around 90 min, and all what they do is just play with its multiples? A lot of people who's into dreaming knows that after the first 2 or 3 full cycles of sleep the body is fully rested and that's why the REM stage lasts long during the last 2 or 3 cycles after that, because of the body apparently doesn't need to rest more. I remember some guy who claimed that sleeping the equivalent of 2 sleep cycles should allow you to feel rested enough to continue with your WL until the next time you feel tired when you should take a nap or so.

I don't know, I will carefully read @flowofmysoul's post to see what you mean, although it must be later, because of I have to go to sleep now. I work at night and have to sleep around 5 hours before that, then I must take 2 naps of an hour and a half each to keep on going...

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## Box77

Finally I have some time to spend on my favorite subject, dreams. Last days I was very busy and didn't have much time, although, I was paying more attention on my daily routine because of some points were not clear to me.

First of all, I read more than twice @flowofmysoul's post and it sounds like one of my successful one-full-cycle naps which I noticed not necessarily last an hour and a half and not always I have two per day. That is to say, I'm not a regular scheduled sleeper. Basically it depends on how many free time I have.

On the other hand, I think those polyphasic schedules are designed for people who wants to spend more time awake than sleeping. Perhaps that's why I don't find one that fits my sometimes 3 cycles core + 2 naps which can last from 30 min to around 1h 30 min. Perhaps the closest I find is the 'siesta sleep' just that I add one more cycle along the day when it's possible.

What about the amount of dreams during @flowofmysoul's one cycle sleep? Should I consider he had as many dreams as in a full time monophasic sleep? I don't think so, from his post I understand he felt completely rested after that nap, what has sense to me because of he got to sleep a full cycle without interruptions which included REM and nREM dreams that possibly included some FA's, that's all.

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## user5659

> Finally I have some time to spend on my favorite subject, dreams. Last days I was very busy and didn't have much time, although, I was paying more attention on my daily routine because of some points were not clear to me.
> 
> First of all, I read more than twice @flowofmysoul's post and it sounds like one of my successful one-full-cycle naps which I noticed not necessarily last an hour and a half and not always I have two per day. That is to say, I'm not a regular scheduled sleeper. Basically it depends on how many free time I have.
> 
> On the other hand, I think those polyphasic schedules are designed for people who wants to spend more time awake than sleeping. Perhaps that's why I don't find one that fits my sometimes 3 cycles core + 2 naps which can last from 30 min to around 1h 30 min. Perhaps the closest I find is the 'siesta sleep' just that I add one more cycle along the day when it's possible.
> 
> What about the amount of dreams during @flowofmysoul's one cycle sleep? Should I consider he had as many dreams as in a full time monophasic sleep? I don't think so, from his post I understand he felt completely rested after that nap, what has sense to me because of he got to sleep a full cycle without interruptions which included REM and nREM dreams that possibly included some FA's, that's all.



As for the amount of dreams, I did have very little dreams compared to what I have during full night sleep. Those were short fragments and short REM's, as I said 5-10 maximum. I think the reason why I felt rested was a combination of things, first of all I slept one full cycle, then I made my self think it was a full night and I had many short dreams. It was not time delation, it was a feeling that I slept full night.

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## Finnegan

Abstract:

During sleep we minimize mental distractions by putting our physical body to rest. In this state there is more room for an inner world to be experienced.

Perceptual reality is formed through experience, thus with a clearer mind we can extend the perceived time traversed.





Perceptual time is measured by moments of presence; the "framerate"


let:

-a flicker faster than b (dreamtime)
-b flicker consistantly (measured time)

time dilation0000.jpg

Hypothesis:

With more flickers in a shorter period, as in the case of the graph "a" could experience the same moments in half the time "b" would take to experience the same.

"b" would appear to move slower to "a"

This also can explain why dreams are capable of being more vivid and intricate then the physical world.





Note: this does not say that every dream will have this time dilation involved, only that there is a logical potential for it to occur.

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## Sensei

I really like that idea finnegan. It makes it so that you don't always have to have time dilation, but if you practice long enough you might be able to beat the system and make your dreams longer.

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## Lucky27

When I have time extended dreams, they usually occur right before my alarm kicks off. 

But what I notice is; say for example I look at the clock and it's 4:30 I have to wake up at 6:00. So I fall asleep, I might wake up at 4:58, again at 5:20 once more 5:38  and finally at 6:00. 

During that 1.5 hours I've had 4-5 dreams. Probably only remember 1-2--the ones that stand out. 

Of those that I remember, One of them probably went along with normal time. While the other might have felt like it lasted 2-3 hours.  

The longest time span in a dream that I can think of, has been a day or so. But it didn't feel as I was trapped in the dream for a whole day. Some parts just seemed to skip ahead in fast-forward while the more interesting aspects of the dream went along at a normal pace.

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## Finnegan

Thanks Brandon! I've been studying the physics of the "drealm" a lot recently, and thought I should share this bit here. Had some inspiration from Einsteins relativity theory, glad to hear it came out understandable.  ::D:

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## user5659

> When I have time extended dreams, they usually occur right before my alarm kicks off. 
> 
> But what I notice is; say for example I look at the clock and it's 4:30 I have to wake up at 6:00. So I fall asleep, I might wake up at 4:58, again at 5:20 once more 5:38  and finally at 6:00. 
> 
> During that 1.5 hours I've had 4-5 dreams. Probably only remember 1-2--the ones that stand out. 
> 
> Of those that I remember, One of them probably went along with normal time. While the other might have felt like it lasted 2-3 hours.  
> 
> The longest time span in a dream that I can think of, has been a day or so. But it didn't feel as I was trapped in the dream for a whole day. Some parts just seemed to skip ahead in fast-forward while the more interesting aspects of the dream went along at a normal pace.



Same with me, most of my long dreams happen when just before I wake up and the longer I sleep the longer my dream will be. The logic is easy here, the longer we sleep the longer REM's we have. So our last REM will be the longest REM, and it will feel like we spent long time there. See this graph as an example 


Regarding your wake ups, I think every time you wake up, you come back to your REM dream with DEILD. I am not sure if we can wake up and return to REM phase? If anybody got info on this please share. I believe it is possible, I am sure somebody already did tests on this.

It is very hard to say whether you skipped some parts or not, try to think of your waking life day, you will also feel like you skipped most details and at first you will recall only main events. I think this is how our memory works, we do not remember every single moment. Of course if you sit and think more, you will recall most small details of the waking day, but also some details you wont be able to recall anymore. Same with dream, when you wake up you will remember only main events, from even to event, try to visit chat and slowly step by step start writing your dream and you will start remembering all small details, or even write it into your DJ when you wake up and you will notice that the more you write the more details you will recall.
Some people might say that we imagine and complete our dream using our imagination, you can apply same for recalling your full waking day. Again that's how our memory works, we miss some details and sometimes we complete the picture using our imagination. Sometimes it is hard to understand whether your really had that moment or you simply added it on.

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## user5659

> Abstract:
> 
> During sleep we minimize mental distractions by putting our physical body to rest. In this state there is more room for an inner world to be experienced.
> 
> Perceptual reality is formed through experience, thus with a clearer mind we can extend the perceived time traversed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great post, this reminds me of FPS in games and Hz in Monitors. You are right this might explain why some dreams are more vivid then the others.

Recently I read article about how sleep forms our memories. Basically it explains that when we sleep we do a clean up in our memories, we delete what is less useful or less important and we re-play and anchor stronger what is important to us. The clean up process happens in nREM phase only. The reason why we cannot clean-up during waking life is because there is a lot of distraction and noise. We form memories by creating connections between neurons, so when memories are deleted those connections dissolve.

I think that our brain might have a limit of what we can remember and experience per day. On our first sleep most of the time we spend on cleaning up our memory during nREM and this is the reason why in our first sleep cycle our REM is very short. On every next sleep cycle our clean up process is shorter and our REM phase is longer and we dream longer. 
I think our dreams memories might be lighter then our waking life memories. By saying "lighter" I am saying that they are printer lighter, they exist but they are not anchored enough to have the same weight as waking life memory. Dream memories are lighter and they can be deleted faster, this is the reason why in our last sleep cycles we can dream for a really long time. In the end of our sleep we cleaned up most of our useless memories and we have a lot of space to dream, so we can have really long dreams followed by a very short cleanup because clean up of dream memories is much easier and faster then clean up of waking life memories.

I have more to say, but I am late for my training. I will reply more later  :smiley:

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## Box77

> With more flickers in a shorter period, as in the case of the graph "a" could experience the same moments in half the time "b" would take to experience the same.
> 
> "b" would appear to move slower to "a"



The amount of flickers should have a limit, otherwise there wouldn't exist the 'Wagon-wheel effect' to the eyes under continuous illumination if it's valid the theory that it's because of the brain takes snapshots of reality. There's another theory that states it's possible that the brain superimposes its own motion effect to the real one to explain that peculiar optical illusion.

I was wondering if it would be possible that the brain is not working on just one single sequence, but many at almost the same time using different areas to work on each one separately from the others, and it sort of overlaps two or more sequences of the same story like a transition between scenes in a main point of view which could be what we perceive.

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## Finnegan

Box77:

Yes the alternate theory posited for this effect may be a cause in some cases as well. I'm not yet saying the dilation principle is limitless either, I was just making the process clear, to prove that it can occur. Although as was said earlier our memory works like a movie, remembering the important things and assuming time by transition. It is quite possible that our mind can emulate this effect to give the illusion that we have spent more time in a dream than we really did. Both possible causes make a good point and present a serious hurdle if we wish to know which one we are experiencing in a particular instance.

P.S.

One solution to telling the difference as flowofmysoul mentioned is that if we have a good enough ability for recall, we will notice either a lack or excess of experienced details.

Another is the classic cited method Stephen Laberge used to measure time in dreams, although somewhat difficult to set up, could give more credible scientific evidence.

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## Box77

^^I think your point about the brain minimizes mental distractions plays a very important role in all this time effect.





> On our first sleep most of the time we spend on cleaning up our memory during nREM and this is the reason why in our first sleep cycle our REM is very short. On every next sleep cycle our clean up process is shorter and our REM phase is longer and we dream longer.



Perhaps that's the reason why some polyphasic schedule models seem to suppress the longer REM cycles, because of the body already did the most fundamental maintenance, after that I think we just get high with vast amounts of self-made melatonin  :smiley: . And that people who made those long WL schedules apparently doesn't enjoy dreaming.

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## Finnegan

> ^^I think your point about the brain minimizes mental distractions plays a very important role in all this time effect.




Yes, it made me think of part of an induction method. It would work similar to meditation; by clearing our consciousness of all unnecessary distractions, and then using that extra focus to immerse ourselves in the inner space. Although this could require a great deal of practice to consistently attain enough added focus to cause a noticeable dilation.


this ability is not limited to dream, but since it works through focused awareness, it can also improve reaction time while awake. Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdD59aqjSMk

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## Box77

> this ability is not limited to dream, but since it works through focused awareness, it can also improve reaction time while awake. Check this out. Anthony Kelly - Ripleys Paintball - YouTube



Heeyy!! I love paintball!!! By the way, that's a pretty good timing  ::D: 

Yeah I know, self-discipline perhaps could be the cornerstone to achieve most of the goals that one proposes to him or herself, specially in the fields of lucid dreaming.

Edit: I was mentally checking the video that you posted and I found some other implicit things that fits like the piece of a puzzle in some of the stuff I was recently thinking: Attitude and anticipation, the first one apparently goes hand in hand with self-discipline, but I want to focus on the second one, which I think could actively intervene in time perception:

Perhaps, many of the things we remember, we just anticipated them to happen although they didn't really happen.

That's it by now, it's time for me to go to sleep.

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## user5659

I am starting to think that there is some fixed time speed in our dreams and it is faster then our waking life. I read many topics on this discussion and what I saw is that most people failed to attain time dilation on purpose. Most people who tried to slow or accelerate time failed, or did very little changes. 
Also from my experience time dilation was almost always random, the situation that I wrote recently did not have any time dilation inside my dream. I simply felt like I slept full night, same for the dreams. 

Long time dilation is very different, this happens very randomly. First of all it usually happens in "alien dream type" (more on my types of dreams here - http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...eam-types.html). You appear in such dream and you already know that it is different, at first you doubt that this is going to be a long dream, but the longer you dream the more you believe in it. You feel like you are awake, days pass by and you know you are dreaming, you can even go to sleep and wake up after a moment without any recall (at least in my case no recall in dream dreaming). You start a new day, you start another day. You say to your self that this is dream and it is already 3rd day passing by, you try to pay attention to details and all details are there, you are not moving from main event to main event. And this is what is interesting, I do not know a single case where somebody could achieve this type of time dilation on purpose. And when you wake up, feelings from such dream are really different, you cannot mistake them with any other type of dream, you wake up and you feel like you just passed a long course of study, your head is full of memories, you do not feel rested at all.

So what could push us unconsciously to such long dreams?

And do you think we dream at the same speed as we are living our waking life or everything is going faster in our dreams?

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## Box77

During your WL, have you ever been involved in such an interesting activity that hours seem to run like minutes? Perhaps during those apparently long dreams, the brain is using some sort of reverse algorithm to show us minutes that seem to last hours.

I will take into account 4 points in my attempt to explain it:

*a.* In nature, everything seem to move in a cyclic way.
*b.* If we take ourselves as the point of reference, our consciousness doesn't move. It's the world which moves around us.
*c.* During dreams, we are always doing something. I remember reading something about some corporal activity during REM stage is similar when we are immerse in some activity of our interest during WL.
*d.* If nature seem to be represented by fractal geometry, and dreams are part of nature, perhaps dreams could be represented under the same fractal principles.
There's a theory which states that the amount of deep sleep vs REM sleep, basically depends on the type of fatigue we present: body or mental. It's known that the REM sleep could vary from 90 - 120 min along the night. Although to exemplify, I will use an intermediate value, so I will have *T*= 1h 45min of REM sleep (or dreams) along a successful night of sleep.

Now I would like to perform some virtual experimentation, this time I won't consider physical fatigue in order to understand some phenomena I want to explain:

*A.*
A.png
Subject *M* must stay still the estimated time *T* of 1h of 45 min, in front of a clock, trying not to get distracted by other things (should I consider meditation as another type of distraction?), and focusing just in how time *T* passes by. As the mind tends to lose focused attention approximately every 10 sec, and the sustained attention span varies from 20 - 40 min, it could be a very painful experience.

*B.*
B.png
Now let *M* go for a walk alone from point *X* to point *Y* in the same time *T*. That's around 4 Km long if he walks at a speed of almost 1.5 m/sec. The only consideration is that *M* must pay attention on the followed path. This experience shouldn't be as painful as in *A*.

*C.*
C.png
In this 3rd experience we will add a second subject *W* who must be of *M*'s interest and viceversa, and we will let them walk together and talk of whatever they want from point *X* to *Y* in the same amount of time. What most probably will happen is they won't notice the long path like in *B* if they get immerse in a very interesting conversation about their lives and perhaps it would be more painful to them when they get to *Y* apparently so fast from their point of view.


So, what happened? Why the time perceived by *M* in *A* seemed to last much more than in *C*?

I think because of *M* focused on it. That's why perhaps it's very difficult to exert time dilation when you pay too much attention on it.

I could conclude, that we are not using real time to measure what we dream but the events we dream as a reference to deduce time that compared to the actual elapsed time seem to be much longer. Such events don't necessarily last what their counterparts in WL because they could be summarized in a definite number of cycles, which according to the self-similarity statement in fractal theory there's a small portion that has the exact same characteristics of the whole.

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## Sageous

Great conversation, guys; thanks!

Since this didn't get answered:





> Regarding your wake ups, I think every time you wake up, you come back to your REM dream with DEILD. I am not sure if we can wake up and return to REM phase? If anybody got info on this please share. I believe it is possible, I am sure somebody already did tests on this.



Yes, you can indeed go right back into REM, especially after several hours' sleep, when REM cycles are jammed together.  That is the core of DEILD, BTW.  I'm too lazy to find tests or studies on this, but I'm pretty sure that LaBerge did some work proving (and then using) the fact that REM can be rejoined after waking, given proper timing. Oh, and I have done this many, many times -- as, I assume, that many others have as well, since "chaining LD's" seems to have become a term on these forums.

As long as I'm here, I had another, more on-topic thought:





> It is very hard to say whether you skipped some parts or not, try to think of your waking life day, you will also feel like you skipped most details and at first you will recall only main events. I think this is how our memory works, we do not remember every single moment. Of course if you sit and think more, you will recall most small details of the waking day, but also some details you wont be able to recall anymore. Same with dream, when you wake up you will remember only main events, from even to event, try to visit chat and slowly step by step start writing your dream and you will start remembering all small details, or even write it into your DJ when you wake up and you will notice that the more you write the more details you will recall.



You might consider turning this thought around.  Since our consciousness, and our interaction with and interpretation of our experiences (including time) is based on waking-life activity, we may be looking at our memories of dreams that _seemed_ very long through the same glass that we use for waking-life memories.  In other words, even though we only remember a few moments of, say, a previous waking-life day, we _know_ that more happened. So, if we're presented with the same sort of collection of dream bits that seemed to span a day, we might tend to reflexively intuit that there _must_ have been other stuff to fill in the gaps between the bits there too, because that is what is supposed to happen (based on our waking-life parameters).  And, we'll tend to believe this even though there never was anything between those bits.

This to me is why I tend to only judge time's passage in dreams during LD's, when I'm actually there and can witness and register that passage in more solid long-term memory.  Non-lucids, being based completely on difficult to retrieve memory bits, are not to me a good source for proving time-dilation.

I hope that made sense.  If not, just ignore!

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## user5659

> During your WL, have you ever been involved in such an interesting activity that hours seem to run like minutes? Perhaps during those apparently long dreams, the brain is using some sort of reverse algorithm to show us minutes that seem to last hours.
> 
> I will take into account 4 points in my attempt to explain it:
> 
> *a.* In nature, everything seem to move in a cyclic way.
> *b.* If we take ourselves as the point of reference, our consciousness doesn't move. It's the world which moves around us.
> *c.* During dreams, we are always doing something. I remember reading something about some corporal activity during REM stage is similar when we are immerse in some activity of our interest during WL.
> *d.* If nature seem to be represented by fractal geometry, and dreams are part of nature, perhaps dreams could be represented under the same fractal principles.
> There's a theory which states that the amount of deep sleep vs REM sleep, basically depends on the type of fatigue we present: body or mental. It's known that the REM sleep could vary from 90 - 120 min along the night. Although to exemplify, I will use an intermediate value, so I will have *T*= 1h 45min of REM sleep (or dreams) along a successful night of sleep.
> ...



I understand your point. I keep two different possibilities of what time is, on one hand I think that time does not exist at all, on the other hand I think time might be different from how we know it or we are simply not advanced enough to understand how it interacts with this world. Time as we know it, is only a way to measure it, I was talking about dreams and time in more open way, not exact days, hours and minutes but time as an interpretation.

So is there any solid way to prove how long we dream and how much we experience? I think no. We cannot rely on time because it is tricky, your experiment as an example. And we cannot rely on the amount of events because we might unconsciously connect main events, fill missing details and create a whole new day. I can think of only two ways to check this, we can wait for a device that can record our dreams, which is not available yet. Well there is one device like that, but at the moment it records very low resolution images, like basic + or -, one day they will improve it. The other way is to ask our self, how many details do we remember from those long dreams? Did it feel like you made them up, or you clearly remember them happening?

As for my self I can only explain what I felt in my last long dream, I do not clearly remember all details of my previous long dreams. The moment I woke up I could recall most of the details, some of them were more clear and some of them were less clear, but I knew what I was doing, eating, how I was walking here and there, a lot of conversations. Many details are not important, and I did not write all those details in my DJ because even without them dream was pretty long. 

So I personally believe that I had a pretty long dream, I cannot recall every small detail from the whole week, but I would not be able to do the same during waking life, so it is normal. I do not leave a possibility that most probably unconsciously I connected some main events, but in the end it all happened during a period of time that was much longer then I was sleeping.

Do you recall any small details when you think of them, and what do you feel, are they real memories or made up fragments of missing memories?

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## user5659

> Great conversation, guys; thanks!
> 
> Since this didn't get answered:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you can indeed go right back into REM, especially after several hours' sleep, when REM cycles are jammed together.  That is the core of DEILD, BTW.  I'm too lazy to find tests or studies on this, but I'm pretty sure that LaBerge did some work proving (and then using) the fact that REM can be rejoined after waking, given proper timing. Oh, and I have done this many, many times -- as, I assume, that many others have as well, since "chaining LD's" seems to have become a term on these forums.
> 
> As long as I'm here, I had another, more on-topic thought:
> ...



Thanks, it was logical to assume that we can come back to REM, I am glad it is so. I am having DEILD's almost every morning and also I believe that WILD can be nREM only, every REM WILD is DEILD (that's only my opinion). 

You make sense, there are already several replies with the similar point. We tend to remember main events, everything that is between we might remember or we might unconsciously create false(logical) memories to fill in the gaps. And yes, only Lucid Dream can be a reliable source of information to make a conclusion that it was a long dream. But again, you have to ask your self whether you clearly remember all those moments or you just filled the blanks spots... The best moment to think about it is just when you woke up. 

One more observations regarding recall, when I woke up after this long dream I wrote a DJ and also I had a lot of details which I did not write. And that's not all, when I went to the parking and saw my car, I saw few people and I remembered few more fragments from that long dream. And I was not thinking about that dream, I was simply thinking about things I am going to do, saw few reminders and it reminded me of more fragments.

I am going to write more, just a little bit busy right now.

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## Box77

> So I personally believe that I had a pretty long dream, I cannot recall every small detail from the whole week, but I would not be able to do the same during waking life, so it is normal. I do not leave a possibility that most probably unconsciously I connected some main events, but in the end it all happened during a period of time that was much longer then I was sleeping.
> 
> Do you recall any small details when you think of them, and what do you feel, are they real memories or made up fragments of missing memories?



I'm not trying to argue the non existence of long dreams, I have experienced it myself. Nowadays I tend to think that all dreams have this time dilation effect although we don't notice it most of the times. I'm just trying to figure out the way it works in order to play with it if it's possible.

Regarding those false memories, I would use WL as a point of reference too since it's easier to check back. I'm able to remember basically what I payed attention the most, other things will rely in oblivion, and even it's possible to know which things you won't remember in a short time although you're paying attention to them. There comes my point about 'anticipation', because of some times, you think an event is going to happen until you stop paying attention, and if you didn't check back if it really happened, most probably you will think it did until confronted with reality you realize it never happened.

About the way how we build those apparently long lapses of time inside a short one, an old idea comes to my mind: Some time ago, I used to think that we use to perceive events in a sort of shuffled deck of cards, considering every card as a piece of thought which includes different emotions, memories, time, etc. During dreams, I think we don't see them shuffled, although in an ordered sequence where every card is strictly connected to the next one, that could be the reason why we don't realize the absence of the other ones that in real life would be there building their own sequence and filling their space with their own amount of time.

About time, there's something happening right there, we perceive a sequence of past events interconnected to each other and we are able to guess what's possibly going to happen, that's something and I couldn't affirm that's non existent. Perhaps it's something immaterial, which possibly both thoughts and consciousness are made of too. That's something, and as you said, perhaps our CPU's are not capable to manage such information written in another language for another type of processors, who knows!





> .../saw few reminders and it reminded me of more fragments/...



Just a comment a little bit out of topic: Some time ago, I used a dictionary to randomly look for reminding words when I was not able to remember any fragment from the dream of my previous night.

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## duke396

Just thought I'd share this, last night real time passed slower for me than I expected.  I went to bed around 1am and I had two dreams that ran together or maybe it was one dream that went off topic, I'm not sure.  When I woke up I just knew in my head it was like 8am (I had my alarm set for 8:30) but the sun wasn't up yet so I looked at my phone and it was only about 5:45.  I jotted down a couple notes went back to sleep and had a fairly detailed dream and then woke up with the alarm.  This time the passage of real time seemed normal or maybe a tiny bit fast.  Maybe it was purely an artifact of my dream, but it seems like I can usually guess within about an hour of what time it is when I wake up.

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## ProudasaPeacock

I had a lucid dream once when I was a child. I decided to see how a dream second compared to a normal second, so I counted to one and woke myself up. It was hours later. A few dreams lasting different amounts of time later I decided that dreams last however long as they like, and I still believe that now.

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## ~Dreamer~

I accidentally acquired some potential 'evidence' of time dilation recently.
I started voice recording a DJ entry on my phone, but fell asleep halfway though, leaving the microphone resting against my mouth as I slept.
The recording went on for another 30 minutes, during which time I had a lucid dream.
I listened to the whole thing out of curiosity, and came across something interesting.
In amongst all the boring breathing, there was a short segment of sleep talk.

Here's what happened in the recording, within 10 seconds:

- garbled sentence about coffees
- sharp inhalation (nose plug?)
- very clear "increase"
- random syllables of garbled speech

Here's what happened in the dream:

- no speech for several minutes prior to lucidity
- nose plug RC
- voice command: "increase clarity"
- no speech for several minutes while exploring the dream environment

I wonder if my thoughts were translating as speech, or if I really was experiencing time at a different speed?
Perhaps this would be one way to explore the idea, especially if a known sleep talker would volunteer to record themselves nightly and compare the recordings to their DJ entries.
You should be able to pick up speech if you look at the waveform in an audio program, without having to listen to the whole 8 hour recording.  :tongue2: 

And just to add my own anecdotal evidence to the discussion:
I have certainly experienced what felt like days during lucid dreams; weeks during non-lucid dreams; and the feeling of eternity during terrifying nightmares that closely resembled psychosis (following sleep deprivation.)

Re: necro - I heard about this thread on the DV podcast... feel free to move this elsewhere if needed.

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## Box77

Hi @~ Dreamer ~!

I know that according to LaBerge's studies, it looks like if you pay attention to it, dream time duration corresponds to its elapsed real time. The point would be not to pay attention to it and have a way to record events like that which you described and compare the results, I don't know if there's more scientific studies about it.

Some months ago I had a dream where I was coming back home after a busy day in a parallel dream world where I have a different life, I'm single, have different apartment, no kids, etc. When I woke up I couldn't remember more than just fragments, and that in the dream I felt really tired and wanted to get back home and go to sleep. Now I just can remember the sequence where I got into the apartment, it was night and I realized that I forgot to close the windows when I went out in the morning. It's curious that I felt the elapsed time from that morning to the moment I got back home, as I normally do in my WL. I felt like it was a loooong day.

Recently I was studying something about the process of memory, and perhaps our perception of elapsed time could be something like a false memory about it. I would love to experiment more about the subject but I didn't have any idea how to do it alone since my 'soul mate' doesn't share my interest in lucid dreaming. I think the way you accidentally discovered is a good idea, and I would like to give it a try (veteran sleep talker here, although I don't know if I'm still active  ::tongue:: ). The only problem is that the HQ voice recorder I had some months ago, unfortunately is gone and I don't know how much could I catch with the cheap one I have nowadays.

Hope the OP is still active and interested in the subject...

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## user5659

Hey guys, I noticed this thread is active again, will update with few of my new findings.

@Dreamer, How did that dream felt to you, did it pass really fast or it felt like 25-30 minutes?

@Box77, Laberge might be right there. But he could also be accidentally right, when in reality it could have another reason to be so. I think that it happens so because when we do pay attention to how time flows, we unconsciously give it a real-life time speed. We are used to how time goes in waking life and whenever we focus on it in our dreams we do make it flow the same speed, or at least similar speed.

That could also explain why most time dilation's happen randomly, when our mind does not pay attention to time speed.


I spent some nights trying to focus on how time works in lucid dreams and wrote this small topic. I don't know if you will get the idea, but I hope you will  :smiley:  I did not write things that I am not sure of yet, will have to do part2 topic for that later after more tests.

Does Time Exist in Dreams? | flow of my soul

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