# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  I know I've posted so many threads but this is just hard..

## Sydney

Hey guys.  :smiley: 

I've been off DV for a few weeks now, been busy. I've sort of been in and out of lucid dreaming, so I'm not really that excited about it sometimes and sometimes I am.
Well.. let's see.. I've been to the Lucidology site and tried out some of Nick Newport's stuff.. and after I saw a thread about that it made me change my mind about his nonsense. 

So I want to start fresh again, I guess. I've read most of the WILD guides here (and they are most helpful) but I still am not great at WILDing. I either keep falling asleep, or I stay awake, or I'm too lazy to get up in the middle of the night to WILD.

I don't know what's wrong.. maybe I was sorta kinda out of that "phase".
But if anyone could point me in the right direction, say be my "mentor" for having my first successful WILD, I would be so grateful.  :smiley: 

So please, anyone?

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## Snowboy

Sure. Just ask a more direct question and I will answer it as best as I can.

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## Maria92

Well, one of the goals of WILD is to fall asleep. It's just staying conscious while doing so that's a pain in the ass.  :wink2:  You're halfway there! Yay!

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## Sydney

Well, if you guys need more info, here's my typical WBTB:

I usually try to wake up 5 hours after I've fallen asleep: (usually with an alarm)

1. I get up and go to the bathroom
2. I don't do much, maybe a RC or 2
3. I lay back down in bed
4. (I haven't done WBTB lately, so this is the last WBTB I have done) I relax by tensing my muscles and letting go the tension
5. Then I think what I do is usually count. I haven't figured out a good way to WILD yet; it usually varies some nights. I'm experimenting. Sometimes I'll count breaths, sometimes I'll just look at my eyelids, sometimes I'll just focus on my breathing, and sometimes I'll daydream.
6. All this usually ends up with the grand finale of: Usually falling asleep or moving on accident without thinking. Or staying awake and not going into paralysis.

Any ideas on how I can find my perfect WBTB time? I really want to achieve FAST WILDS, because I hate the slow relaxation process. :/

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## Maria92

Eh, truth be told, you don't really need to do the tension/relaxation thing unless you think it's necessary for falling asleep. Staying anchored to reality is the hardest part, imho. You could try white or pink noise, like a fan or a radio turned to soft static, or a quiet loop recording of waves on a beach, etc. Failing that, daydreaming is a fun way to WILD. I haven't had success with it yet, but by daydreaming before bed, I've managed to increase my in-dream awareness to the point where I've gotten lucid through DILD.  ::D:  

So yeah, experiment a bit, see what works best. And good luck.  :smiley:

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## rynkrt3

> Well, if you guys need more info, here's my typical WBTB:
> 
> I usually try to wake up 5 hours after I've fallen asleep: (usually with an alarm)
> 
> 1. I get up and go to the bathroom
> 2. I don't do much, maybe a RC or 2
> 3. I lay back down in bed
> 4. (I haven't done WBTB lately, so this is the last WBTB I have done) I relax by tensing my muscles and letting go the tension
> 5. Then I think what I do is usually count. I haven't figured out a good way to WILD yet; it usually varies some nights. I'm experimenting. Sometimes I'll count breaths, sometimes I'll just look at my eyelids, sometimes I'll just focus on my breathing, and sometimes I'll daydream.
> ...



I don't know if I am going to explain this well but I will try.

To me it seems its not your WBTB times that you need to work on as much as anticipating the "WILD."  If you focus on WILDing, or if your waiting on something to happen, then nothing will happen.  You need to find the right balance between waiting and falling asleep.  

I recommend reading all of BillyBob's stuff on wilding ---->  http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/how-wild-62282/   <-----

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## Sydney

Yeah, I think I've read his guide before; but I'll read it again.

Last night I did a WBTB.. sort of like the one up above. After I layed down though.. I was relaxing and.. it was weird.. I never started counting or anything and I fell asleep x_x I think I forgot what I was doing or something.

And since I have school, I think maybe I should attempt on the weekends, and once I get them going, I'll start doing it on weekdays.

@Mario92: I think daydreaming before sleep helps a TON, imo. I find that almost every DILD I have is because I was daydreaming about something before I fell asleep.

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## Snowboy

I have been trying to use daydreaming before bed (?) to influence the content for YEARS with no results!  :Bang head: 

Anyway, if you want to find your REM times do this:

1) For a few times each night note the times that you wake up from a dream.
2) Subtract a half-hour (if early in the night; if early morning then on hour) and set an alarm clock for that time.
3) If the time isn't correct, then you should go ahead and subtract five minutes each night until you hit the exact time that you enter a REM cycle.
4) Have the alarm set for that time. When you wake up, stay awake for 15 seconds or so and try to stay conscious while falling asleep. That isn't near as effective as WILD since it requires a quick lapse in consciousness and it is easier to lose lucidity, but you don't have to go through SP/HH. This will also help you get back to sleep sooner.
5) You have some chance of entering a dream very quickly when you do this, but remember... *HANG ON TO YOUR LUCIDITY!!!*

I hope I helped in that department. Post more questions if you still have some!

I hope I helped!  :smiley:

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## Sydney

Okay. I'll try this tonight.

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## Robot_Butler

Next time you WILD, try to just be a passive witness to everything that happens to your mind and body as you fall asleep.  Just pay attention and watch closely, don't try to force any thoughts.  This might help familiarize you with the transitional stage between wakefulness and sleep.

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## Sydney

Okay. I just read some stuff in the guide that rynkrt3 mentioned above.. and I remembered that I'm supposed to let my mind wander (while I'm falling asleep) BUT keep an anchor in the back of my mind. Question is.. how do you do that?

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## Snowboy

You're not supposed to let your mind wander. If you do, that doesn't allow your mind to fall asleep since there is still conscious activity going on. You're supposed to keep your mind as clear as possible so that your mind can fall asleep and you transition to a dream. Think of it as beginning meditation. You won't be perfect, but you should try to keep your mind as clear as possible.

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## Maria92

> You're not supposed to let your mind wander. If you do, that doesn't allow your mind to fall asleep since there is still conscious activity going on. You're supposed to keep your mind as clear as possible so that your mind can fall asleep and you transition to a dream. Think of it as beginning meditation. You won't be perfect, but you should try to keep your mind as clear as possible.



Meh...I've never fallen asleep from having a clear mind.  :tongue2:  Letting it do its own thing is the most successful method I've found so far for getting to sleep. :3

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## Snowboy

> Meh...I've never fallen asleep from having a clear mind.  Letting it do its own thing is the most successful method I've found so far for getting to sleep. :3



This is for WILD. For falling asleep normally you can think whatever you want.

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## Maria92

Oh, okay. I suppose both would work, but yeah, I can definitely see how having a clear mind would be advantageous.

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## Sydney

Well, if you did let your mind wander but passively focus on or remember your anchor, wouldn't that work too?

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## Snowboy

No, it won't work. As I said before, thinking will keep your mind awake, and conscious activity in the brain will keep your mind from falling asleep. Letting your mind wander like that will only keep awake since this is thinking, so your WILD will ultimately *fail*. Anchors will be of no use; quite the opposite, in fact! It only adds to the activity bill and has no real use here.

Anchors are used _inside_ the dream for _stabilization_ so that the dream won't fall apart. Think about it. Just what are you trying to anchor yourself to? The only thing that you are anchoring yourself to is reality since you aren't in a dream. So, what does this mean? (if you really asked that question...  ::doh::  ) It means that you are just keeping yourself awake and thus will not perform a WILD. Does that sound like a good WILD? I thought not!

If you have questions that will not cause me to repeat what I have already said, feel free to ask or send me a PM!  :wink2:

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## Maria92

> Well, if you did let your mind wander but passively focus on or remember your anchor, wouldn't that work too?



It would work. Daydreaming/mind wandering is itself actually a good anchor for some people.

And Snowboy...be nice to the cute girl, eh?  ::D:

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## Sydney

> And Snowboy...be nice to the cute girl, eh?



Lol.

Well, actually I was kinda meaning let your mind do its own thing. Not like making it daydream and think.
But thanks for the info, Snowboy  :smiley:

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## Maria92

Yup, yup, mind wandering is perfectly fine, as long as you passively engage your anchor, whatever that may be.  ::D:

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## Mzzkc

And if standard anchors aren't working for you, and you can't find that right amount of focus, there's some interesting tech out there you may want to try.

What comes to mind immediately is something LaBerge suggested in his book. Namely, passively holding your forearm up at a ninety-degree angle (by bending your elbow) and keeping it up as you drift to sleep, letting your mind wander if you so desire. It should fall on its own as you lose all consciousness, alerting you and giving you that extra edge you need to stay aware.

Also, give me a bit and I'll address all of Snowboy's misinformation.

Done:





> 4) Have the alarm set for that time. When you wake up, stay awake for 15 seconds or so and try to stay conscious while falling asleep. That isn't near as effective as WILD since it requires a quick lapse in consciousness and it is easier to lose lucidity, but you don't have to go through SP/HH. This will also help you get back to sleep sooner.



He makes good points on all except this one. 

First off, this is still a WILD. Furthermore, what you're doing here is actually more effective than most WILDs as you should be very close to REM. And no matter how you look at it, you'll still have to deal with SP (but no worries, it generally isn't as intense or momentous as most make it out to be). 





> You're not supposed to let your mind wander. If you do, that doesn't allow your mind to fall asleep since there is still conscious activity going on. You're supposed to keep your mind as clear as possible so that your mind can fall asleep and you transition to a dream. Think of it as beginning meditation. You won't be perfect, but you should try to keep your mind as clear as possible.



If you don't let your mind follow its own course, then by definition you're taking conscious control of it. The mind tends to wander naturally before sleep, so anything you can do to help emulate or feed that process is a good thing. Putting small dams in the rapids that open to the subconscious sea is counterproductive, and often futile. And most meditation is actually done by simply observing that flow, not partaking, not blocking.  





> This is for WILD. For falling asleep normally you can think whatever you want.



You still need to fall asleep to WILD, no? So why wouldn't you try to facilitate that by using lessons learned from falling asleep normally? Modifications need to made, obviously, but if you completely ignore a well-established set of ideas here, you're committing an injustice.





> No, it won't work. As I said before, thinking will keep your mind awake, and conscious activity in the brain will keep your mind from falling asleep. Letting your mind wander like that will only keep awake since this is thinking, so your WILD will ultimately *fail*. Anchors will be of no use; quite the opposite, in fact! It only adds to the activity bill and has no real use here.



I think Snowboy is the only person who has ever recommended someone not use and anchor to WILD. Yes, it's possible, but it's a terrible idea unless you've got a ton of experience.

I've already addressed the mind wandering thing.





> Anchors are used _inside_ the dream for _stabilization_ so that the dream won't fall apart. Think about it. Just what are you trying to anchor yourself to? The only thing that you are anchoring yourself to is reality since you aren't in a dream. So, what does this mean? (if you really asked that question...  ) It means that you are just keeping yourself awake and thus will not perform a WILD. Does that sound like a good WILD? I thought not!



To everyone who is inclined to believe this, please check out BillyBob's guide "How To Wild" to review the generally accepted definition of "anchor" and why/how they are used. Rynkrt3 was kind enough to link to it, and for that I thank him.

And for those eager to learn all they can, I provide some further detail on anchors in my Comprehensive Guide.

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## Sydney

I agree with that you have said, Mzzkc  :smiley:  And Billybob's guide sure did help me a TON.

Last night I went to bed at 9 pm and woke up at 2:45 am. I stayed awake for about 5 minutes, Reality checking. I layed down and relaxed and did the anchor (I do the pain, you know what Billybob does, because it is super helpful and easy  :smiley: ) I layed on my side first and put my hand under me. After a few minutes I was so uncomfortable I decided to move my hand. So I rolled over and I think I tried to put my hand under my back or something, but I fell asleep. Even though I failed, I still had a DILD which I am proud of  :smiley:  Not as much clarity, and it was crappy, but at least it was still lucid.

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## Maria92

Yay! Congrats!  :boogie:

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## Snowboy

I understand what you mean, Mzzck, but I'm just going over what you said and put in my opinion.

I think most people misunderstood what I meant by this. It's a bit hard, actually. You are just trying to stay conscious, but you are also trying to fall asleep normally. I'm not talking about the consciousness you have in a WILD, but something else. If this makes no sense, like I said, it's hard to explain. What happens is you are trying to stay conscious while you fall asleep, you experience a lapse of consciousness when the SP/HH and all of that happens, then you're in a dream. It's hard to explain, but it's much better than a WILD.

The mind wanders during and after sleep as well as during the day, which is completely conscious. I don't see why it would make any difference to stop the flow since it's still conscious control.  :tongue2: 





> You still need to fall asleep to WILD, no? So why wouldn't you try to facilitate that by using lessons learned from falling asleep normally? Modifications need to made, obviously, but if you completely ignore a well-established set of ideas here, you're committing an injustice.



That comment was separate from the other technique that I described. You can fall asleep with a close to clear mind, can you not?

I still stand by with what I said about anchors, even after reading a short bit on anchors in Billybob's tutorial.. Keeping your mind clear is enough to hold onto consciousness.

I hope you get better over time, Sydney! Sounds like you're on the right track!  :smiley:

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## Sydney

Thanks, Snowboy and Maro92.  :smiley: 

I'll post further results here if anyone is interested.

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## Jay12341235

*Snowboy*, how many times have you truthfully WILDed? 

If you want a real technique, than this is it:
YouTube - How to induce an Out Of Body Experience - part 1 - Sleep Paralysis

Whatever anyone says, sleep paralysis is the best gateway to lucid dreams. This technique actually works, and be sure to watch part 2. Call it an OBE or a lucid dream, I don't care. 


*Spoiler* for _Contains information about the creator of the video and where to find him_: 




This video was made by a man named Ben and you can find him and chat with him almost all the time at a sight called http://meta-mind.org or read his thousands of posts at http://astralviewers.com. He's had thousands of OBEs/Lucid dreams

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## Snowboy

> *Snowboy*, how many times have you truthfully WILDed?



I have never done an intentional WILD, although I have performed an accidental one in conjunction with a FILD. I just happen to know a good deal about WILDs. The technique I described is different from WILDs in several respects, but I'm not going to describe them right now.

The WILD technique is a good one, I will admit that, I recommend it as well, but I'm just not looking to go through HH (frightening experiences when I was younger). I will provide any help that people want and I will say what I feel logically makes sense. I'm not sure if you asked that because of some things that I said that are contradictory to some WILD techniques, but I said that just in case.

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## Mzzkc

> I have never done an intentional WILD, although I have performed an accidental one in conjunction with a FILD. I just happen to know a good deal about WILDs. The technique I described is different from WILDs in several respects, but I'm not going to describe them right now.



Your technique is a WILD wherein you use mind clearing 'exercises' as an anchor. The reason you've never gotten it to work is because that's a terrible anchor.





> The WILD technique is a good one, I will admit that, I recommend it as well, but I'm just not looking to go through HH (frightening experiences when I was younger). I will provide any help that people want and I will say what I feel logically makes sense. I'm not sure if you asked that because of some things that I said that are contradictory to some WILD techniques, but I said that just in case.



It's basically your typically taught WILD with a long WBTB using a simple mental anchor and some various transition methods. It won't work for everyone, and I do not approve of the music and nightmare-inducing imagery in the vids.

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## Jay12341235

> Your technique is a WILD wherein you use mind clearing 
> It's basically your typically taught WILD with a long WBTB using a simple mental anchor and some various transition methods. It won't work for everyone, and I do not approve of the music and nightmare-inducing imagery in the vids.



It's not, your typically taught WILD does not include sleep paralysis.

It's rare when I see techniques that involve REAL sleep paralysis. Over half of the DV population thinks that it's when your body is numb, but somehow they "moved" and got out of it. You can't move, therefore cannot exit it by moving (at least not right away). 

The images are there to prepare you for a typical SP experience. The experience is incredibly scary for most first timers and it would be even more cruel for him to put you into something like that unexpectidly. Sleep paralysis is almost always accompanied by a sudden feeling of terror. If you honestly can't handle it, don't rely on sleep paralysis because it's not for you, but it's still debateably the best way to get lucid dreams.

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## Mzzkc

> It's not, your typically taught WILD does not include sleep paralysis.
> 
> It's rare when I see techniques that involve REAL sleep paralysis. Over half of the DV population thinks that it's when your body is numb, but somehow they "moved" and got out of it. You can't move, therefore cannot exit it by moving (at least not right away). 
> 
> The images are there to prepare you for a typical SP experience. The experience is incredibly scary for most first timers and it would be even more cruel for him to put you into something like that unexpectidly. Sleep paralysis is almost always accompanied by a sudden feeling of terror. If you honestly can't handle it, don't rely on sleep paralysis because it's not for you, but it's still debateably the best way to get lucid dreams.



A bit of a misquote there, as only my second point was referencing the vid.

I think you've fallen prey to the misinformation out there. By their very definition, all legitimate WILD techniques inevitably include dealing with SP, not the fake, "numb" 'SP' many clueless people like referencing. As it is, SP isn't as bad as people make it out to be (most of the time, there are always exceptions). Luckily, the worst most people have to deal with is intense buzzing, odd sounds, and powerful vibrations. More demented HH is infrequent, at best.

But the most important thing to not here, though, is that the goal presented in the vid is never to achieve SP, it's to "Separate" or, in more relate-able terms, fall asleep by directly entering a dream. You need to recognize SP to do that, yes, but trying to directly induce SP isn't the best way to go about things. Instead, it's better to let SP happen by itself during your normal WILD attempt, realize what's happening, then try out a transitional method.

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## Jay12341235

> But the most important thing to not here, though, is that the goal presented in the vid is never to achieve SP, it's to "Separate" or, in more relate-able terms, fall asleep by directly entering a dream. You need to recognize SP to do that, yes, but trying to directly induce SP isn't the best way to go about things. Instead, it's better to let SP happen by itself during your normal WILD attempt, realize what's happening, then try out a transitional method.



The entire video (and part 2) revolves around sleep paralysis. It is the key state for a sure way to go from reality to dreaming with full awareness if you actually enter SP. Most normal WILD methods don't come close to priming you properly for sleep paralysis and it's a great idea to induce SP and not wait for it to happen on it's own because of this. Why wouldn't you want to induce the 'gateway' into a lucid dream? That doesn't make sense to me.

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## Maria92

Rather than trying to "force" SP, perhaps it is better simply to let it happen _like to does every single night_ naturally, then recognize it and transition into a dream. Really, this saves a lot of hassle.

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## Sydney

Ooh yeah  :wink2:  2 LDs in a row. Except this one didn't last long.  ::?: 

I woke up for my timer at the same time again, and I was too comfortable and warm to get up to WBTB. -.-  I'm so lazy..
I tried to do it without WBTB and it made me fall asleep.. but the quick "lapse in awareness" made me have another DILD  :wink2: 
I think it was after another dream but I did a RC, either in my room or in my school's locker room. It felt totally unstable and the dream felt like it was slipping away. I kept breathing through my nose and everything went black. Completely black. But I was breathing through my nose still. o.o

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## Jay12341235

> Rather than trying to "force" SP, perhaps it is better simply to let it happen _like to does every single night_ naturally, then recognize it and transition into a dream. Really, this saves a lot of hassle.



Except it's extremely hard to 'let sleep paralysis happen'. Have you done this yourself? It's not that simiple

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## Jay12341235

> Rather than trying to "force" SP, perhaps it is better simply to let it happen _like to does every single night_ naturally, then recognize it and transition into a dream. Really, this saves a lot of hassle.



Except it's extremely hard to 'let sleep paralysis happen' without pre sleep or the right idea of what to do. Have you done this yourself? It's not that simiple.

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## cmind

I'm new here, but not to lucid dreaming in general. Here's my take:

If you 'let' SP happen, by thinking about other things, it will sometimes happen and sometimes not happen. But if you TRY to make SP happen, it will never work, guaranteed. The best you can get is what we call "fake" SP, which is where you basically just work yourself up but you're nowhere near actual SP.

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## Jay12341235

> I'm new here, but not to lucid dreaming in general. Here's my take:
> 
> If you 'let' SP happen, by thinking about other things, it will sometimes happen and sometimes not happen. But if you TRY to make SP happen, it will never work, guaranteed. The best you can get is what we call "fake" SP, which is where you basically just work yourself up but you're nowhere near actual SP.



I'm sorry for not being clear, but I agree that you should be passive with your attempts to induce SP. You just need to prime yourself for the experience beforehand. That's exactly what the video in the previous post shows to do, and even goes through some steps on how to be passive with your attempts.

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## Sydney

I almost got SP yesterday.  :smiley: 

I had a cold, so I decided to take a nap to feel better. Lol. Instead of napping, I tried to WILD. I layed there for what seemed like forever with my arm under me to induce pain. About thirty minutes or so into it I felt a _slight_ tingle in my feet. At that moment, that's when my body was totally numb and it was super uncomfortable, for my arm was hurting terribly and instead of it being under me, it felt like I had layed my arm on me. That's how numb I was. I couldn't tell if it was still under me or not. 
So I moved, because I thought I had cut the circulation off of my arm. I sort of did, but not to a good extent. I'm just glad I got some little tingling sensations though.  :smiley:  No success last night, because my throat hurt so bad I would swallow every 2 minutes.

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## Jay12341235

> I almost got SP yesterday. 
> 
> I had a cold, so I decided to take a nap to feel better. Lol. Instead of napping, I tried to WILD. I layed there for what seemed like forever with my arm under me to induce pain. About thirty minutes or so into it I felt a _slight_ tingle in my feet. At that moment, that's when my body was totally numb and it was super uncomfortable, for my arm was hurting terribly and instead of it being under me, it felt like I had layed my arm on me. That's how numb I was. I couldn't tell if it was still under me or not. 
> So I moved, because I thought I had cut the circulation off of my arm. I sort of did, but not to a good extent. I'm just glad I got some little tingling sensations though.  No success last night, because my throat hurt so bad I would swallow every 2 minutes.



You weren't near SP. SP is not a numb feeling, sleep paralysis involves halucinations both auditory and visual. You will know 100% when you reach it, no questions asked. Please, use the video I posted above if you're serious about WILDing via sleep paralysis. If you keep doing what you are doing I can guarantee you that you will not reach sleep paralysis.

Another note, you cannot simply 'move' to get out of SP. You should find that even if you try to move you will be unable to.

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## Maria92

> You weren't near SP. SP is not a numb feeling, sleep paralysis involves halucinations both auditory and visual. You will know 100% when you reach it, no questions asked. Please, use the video I posted above if you're serious about WILDing via sleep paralysis. If you keep doing what you are doing I can guarantee you that you will not reach sleep paralysis.
> 
> Another note, you cannot simply 'move' to get out of SP. You should find that even if you try to move you will be unable to.



Disregard this man. You were experiencing the early onset of SP.  ::D:  And yes, you can indeed move to get out of SP. Its effects rapidly dissolve if you try to move, or even open your eyes. Your brain isn't stupid...it will let you move if you really want to.  :wink2: 

With regards to laying on your arm...I would recommend trying to enter SP without doing that a few times first, just to get a feel for it. You'll be better prepared for future attempts if you know what to expect...I personally find my numbing sensation disturbing, but I've been getting closer to SP by coping with it gradually. Since SP is quite personal, knowing what to expect from it can be of advantage.  ::D:  You might also want to try out a different anchor if you find that laying on your arm is too painful/distracting. A fan or AC unit running in the background supplies a nice amount of white noise that you can focus on and use to your advantage.

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## Jay12341235

> Disregard this man. You were experiencing the early onset of SP.  And yes, you can indeed move to get out of SP. Its effects rapidly dissolve if you try to move, or even open your eyes. Your brain isn't stupid...it will let you move if you really want to. 
> 
> With regards to laying on your arm...I would recommend trying to enter SP without doing that a few times first, just to get a feel for it. You'll be better prepared for future attempts if you know what to expect...I personally find my numbing sensation disturbing, but I've been getting closer to SP by coping with it gradually. Since SP is quite personal, knowing what to expect from it can be of advantage.  You might also want to try out a different anchor if you find that laying on your arm is too painful/distracting. A fan or AC unit running in the background supplies a nice amount of white noise that you can focus on and use to your advantage.



You're telling her to disregard me, but yet you have not experienced it yourself. Because you feel like you're getting closer doesn't mean you are. I challenge you  to lay like that for 5 hours and see if you get sleep paralysis  :smiley:  I suggest you also take a look  at the video I posted above, you may find it useful

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## Sydney

Thanks Mario92.  :wink2: 
And Jay, I didn't say I was about to enter SP, I could feel that it was close. Or how Mario92 put it, the early onset.
No offense, but I don't really feel the need to watch those videos.

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## Maria92

Yes...or to put it more precisely, what you experienced was your brain testing you to see if you're actually asleep before paralyzing your body. It's the precursor to purposely-induced SP. If you can pass the test, your brain will eventually paralyze your body and the HH will start. Passing the test is the hard part.  :tongue2: 

And Jay...experience is not a prerequisite to knowledge.  :wink2:

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## cmind

Sydney, I bet if you tried WILD without putting yourself into some form of pain, you would get a lot further.

Sometimes, common sense isn't so common...

Yes, blah blah blah LaBerge says blah blah. You can't get into a lucid dream if you're worried about the damage you're doing to your body in the attempt, can you?

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## Jay12341235

right. I wish you luck on achieving SP, but you weren't close. You  need pre sleep beforehand, if you disregard this, that's your choice. But you will not get very far.

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## Maria92

> right. I wish you luck on achieving SP, but you weren't close. You  need pre sleep beforehand, if you disregard this, that's your choice. But you will not get very far.



Correction: sleep makes it easier. And her method of trying it during a nap is perfectly valid. The gap between waking up and napping was likely small enough to make the pre-sleep count.

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## Jay12341235

> Correction: sleep makes it easier. And her method of trying it during a nap is perfectly valid. The gap between waking up and napping was likely small enough to make the pre-sleep count.



Then keep trying. If you've found you haven't gotten there after numorus times, watch the video and learn. That's all I have to say if you aren't willing to learn a way that might be better than your own!  :smiley:

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## Maria92

>implying I try on a regular basis

I've only given it a real shot a few times, spaced far and few between, with no prior sleep. I actually prefer Mzzkc's WILD method, with daydreaming as my anchor, and with no prior sleep. It seems to help me get lucid from DILD, and that's good enough for me.  :wink2:

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## Jay12341235

> >implying I try on a regular basis
> 
> I've only given it a real shot a few times, spaced far and few between, with no prior sleep. I actually prefer Mzzkc's WILD method, with daydreaming as my anchor, and with no prior sleep. It seems to help me get lucid from DILD, and that's good enough for me.



 Then give it a real shot, the right way  :smiley:  If you aren't willing to put forth effort, don't expect any success. We could sit and argue this forever, no one will win.

YouTube - How to induce an Out Of Body Experience - part 1 - Sleep Paralysis
YouTube - How to Induce an Out-Of-Body Experience - Part 2 - Separation


Watch them both. I've posted the method on this site before with success. Don't be afraid of the images or music either.

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## Sydney

Um.. enough of this. I'm simply using Billybob's method of mild pain as an anchor.
Also you can perfectly WILD in a nap.
I watched the first video, and I'm just going to keep with my method. It is a good vid I must say, but I'd rather let SP happen, as Mario92 once said.
It was kinda creepy too lol.

For anyone that wants to know: Instead of inducing mild pain tonight I'm going to focus on a fan or on my breathing.

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## cmind

Sydney is correct, afternoon naps give WILDs just as easily as the more traditional time in the early morning. 

^I'm glad you're going to try a WILD without pain. You really shouldn't ever be in pain. I know some people might say that pain is a good anchor, but frankly that's kinda stupid. And even if we ignore the stupidity of trying to fall asleep in pain, it's a crutch. You shouldn't have any crutches. But whatever, I've said my piece.

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## Snowboy

OK, Mzzck, just so that you know, I DON'T TRY TO WILD! Like I said, experiences when I was younger keep me from trying. I'm fine with my own personal method. >.<

I'm with Jay on this one. You aren't going to be able to achieve REAL sleep paralysis by just laying there for several hours all still and whatnot. Real sleep paralysis needs practice to achieve and probably an adjustment to your methods. I haven't (and won't) watch the videos since I feel no need to, but it still sounds like it is a good video. When you DO achieve real sleep paralysis you WON'T BE ABLE TO MOVE, NO MATTER WHAT! HH are also distinct and you will know when you hit those too, particularly by their unreal properties.

Quick tip: If you do hit HH, do a RC after it happens or try to do one during it. I just had a dream last night where I was dreaming I was experiencing HH, so it's a good idea to do RCs during and after it.

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## Mzzkc

Snowboy, you achieve "real" sleep paralysis by going to sleep. It's as simple as that.

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## Snowboy

> Snowbyo, you achieve "real" sleep paralysis by going to sleep. It's as simple as that.



>.< I didn't mean in the sense of falling asleep normally, I meant as in a WILD. It's hard to hit real SP in a WILD, and I believe there's something out there that can change that.

Also, I know you fall asleep in a WILD, but I'm just saying that hitting SP is hard to do, and it usually comes before your mind falls asleep.

How did my quote misspell my username but your OP didn't...?  ::?:

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## Mzzkc

> >.< I didn't mean in the sense of falling asleep normally, I meant as in a WILD. It's hard to hit real SP in a WILD, and I believe there's something out there that can change that.
> 
> Also, I know you fall asleep in a WILD, but I'm just saying that hitting SP is hard to do, and it usually comes before your mind falls asleep.
> 
> How did my quote misspell my username but your OP didn't...?



I don't know how much clearer I can be.

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## mcwillis

> And most meditation is actually done by simply observing that flow, not partaking, not blocking.



Exactly.  I'm only throwing in my opinion as I'm just about to do half an hour of meditation.

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## Maria92

> I don't know how much clearer I can be.



@ snowboy...the goal of WILD is to fall asleep while remaining conscious. Some people can induce SP just by laying there until HH sets in and they eventually enter a dream, but what is usually easier is to just fall asleep with some sort of anchor. Don't focus on SP or getting there...just get to sleep. If you engaged your anchor properly, you should now find yourself in a lucid dream. SP happens on its own, and achieving it isn't the goal of WILD. To fall asleep is.

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## Snowboy

> @ snowboy...the goal of WILD is to fall asleep while remaining conscious. Some people can induce SP just by laying there until HH sets in and they eventually enter a dream, but what is usually easier is to just fall asleep with some sort of anchor. Don't focus on SP or getting there...just get to sleep. If you engaged your anchor properly, you should now find yourself in a lucid dream. SP happens on its own, and achieving it isn't the goal of WILD. To fall asleep is.



I know what WILD is. I know how it is done. I know you can induce SP/HH like that, I'm just saying _it's hard to do_.

Anyway, my personal method is different from WILD since you don't hit SP/HH. All you have to do is keep a clear mind and try to keep consciousness while falling asleep. Not in the same manner as WILD, but you're still trying to stay conscious. You will experience a quick lapse in consciousness when your mind falls asleep, then you enter the dream. I'm not sure just how related that is to WILD, but I know it's close but not the same. For those of you that say it isn't real or possible, I just did one two nights ago, so don't say it isn't possible.

Just felt like saying that.

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## cmind

> I know what WILD is. I know how it is done. I know you can induce SP/HH like that, I'm just saying _it's hard to do_.
> 
> Anyway, my personal method is different from WILD since you don't hit SP/HH. All you have to do is keep a clear mind and try to keep consciousness while falling asleep. Not in the same manner as WILD, but you're still trying to stay conscious. You will experience a quick lapse in consciousness when your mind falls asleep, then you enter the dream. I'm not sure just how related that is to WILD, but I know it's close but not the same. For those of you that say it isn't real or possible, I just did one two nights ago, so don't say it isn't possible.
> 
> Just felt like saying that.



That is a WILD.

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## AURON

SP and HH or HI don't determine what a WILD is. Just because you're not experiencing all the things that may or may not accompany it doesn't mean it's not a WILD.  It just means the person who created the information about a WILD decided to put that information in there, because sometimes it happens to people.  Think of SP and HI as side effects to a drug. They wont necessarily happen to you, but it may happen to other people. 

If you're awake for one moment and you go directly into a dream fully aware from the beginning it's a WILD.
If you're already dreaming and discover you're lucid, it's a DILD.

Every technique ever listed is just a variation of those two.

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## Snowboy

> That is a WILD.



It isn't the traditional WILD. Like I said, it's hard to explain.  ::|: 





> SP and HH or HI don't determine what a WILD is. Just because you're not experiencing all the things that may or may not accompany it doesn't mean it's not a WILD.  It just means the person who created the information about a WILD decided to put that information in there, because sometimes it happens to people.  Think of SP and HI as side effects to a drug. They wont necessarily happen to you, but it may happen to other people. 
> 
> If you're awake for one moment and you go directly into a dream fully aware from the beginning it's a WILD.
> If you're already dreaming and discover you're lucid, it's a DILD.
> 
> Every technique ever listed is just a variation of those two.



I see what you mean, and I agree. Mostly. I think there's some future technology that can induce lucid dreams that will come into play someday, but at the moment all techniques are just spin-offs of the two.

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## Sydney

I've been sick for a week but I'm starting back again.
I'm just glad to feel some SP even if its not "real".

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## mikeac

> It isn't the traditional WILD. Like I said, it's hard to explain.



I've been doing my WILDs the same way you've done it, it's still a WILD.  There's no such thing as a traditional WILD, WILD is just the basis of a technique, which could be altered to suit each individual's need.  WILD is simply falling asleep with your mind awake in order to enter your dream.

I looked up the guide to WILD in the wiki, and it says:




> the traditional WILD technique in which the dreamer simply remains motionless and waits for the body to fall asleep.



I don't know of any WILD or spin off of WILD that doesn't use the exact same method, sometimes with amendments.  For example, DEILD would be:





> *a variation of WILD in which the dreamer, if he/she awakes after a previous dream,* simply remains motionless and waits for the body to fall asleep.



and VILD would be:





> *a variation of WILD in which the dreamer* simply remains motionless and waits for the body to fall asleep, *while visualizing a dreamscape in their mind.*



and EILD would be:





> *a variation of WILD in which the dreamer, aided by music, binaural beats, a light-sound machine, etc.,* simply remains motionless and waits for the body to fall asleep.



and so on.  All the spin-offs of both DILD and WILD use the same method except with amendments.

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## Jay12341235

I would like to know, have any of you ACTUALLY fallen asleep conciously using an anchor? That seems much harder than inducing sleep paralysis directly.

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## Snowboy

> I don't know of any WILD or spin off of WILD that doesn't use the exact same method, sometimes with amendments.



Well, with my method you can move as much as you like, as long as you can fall asleep. I also don't wait for my body to fall asleep, I just go to sleep while maintaining awareness. The thing is, though, it's only aware until I fall asleep, where there is a lapse in consciousness, then you are again conscious. Not sure how it works, though, but it does. As I have repeatedly stated, it's hard to explain and I doubt many people will understand what I said.

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## Mzzkc

> I would like to know, have any of you ACTUALLY fallen asleep conciously using an anchor? That seems much harder than inducing sleep paralysis directly.



Loads of times. 

But never once have I succeeded while trying to induce SP.





> Well, with my method you can move as much as you like, as long as you can fall asleep. I also don't wait for my body to fall asleep, I just go to sleep while maintaining awareness. The thing is, though, it's only aware until I fall asleep, where there is a lapse in consciousness, then you are again conscious. Not sure how it works, though, but it does. As I have repeatedly stated, it's hard to explain and I doubt many people will understand what I said.



If you begin the dream lucid and aware, it's a WILD. If you become lucid after being non-lucid for awhile, it's a DILD.

Simple definitions are simple.

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## Snowboy

> If you begin the dream lucid and aware, it's a WILD. If you become lucid after being non-lucid for awhile, it's a DILD.



I meant with my method, which is a spin-off of WILD, but it is different from the traditional WILD in several ways which I have already stated. From now on, when I say the traditional WILD, let's assume I mean the WILD tutorial in the Wiki. OK?

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## Mzzkc

> I meant with my method, which is a spin-off of WILD, but it is different from the traditional WILD in several ways which I have already stated. From now on, when I say the traditional WILD, let's assume I mean the WILD tutorial in the Wiki. OK?



Why would immediately defer to such an old, inherently flawed point of reference?

Whether you like it or not, your method is either a WILD or DILD, there is no other subset of LDs. By the definition I gave, which you'll be hard pressed to show is invalid, your method, as you've explained it, is a WILD.

I really don't know why you're having so much difficulty understanding such simple points.

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## Snowboy

> Why would immediately defer to such an old, inherently flawed point of reference?
> 
> Whether you like it or not, your method is either a WILD or DILD, there is no other subset of LDs. By the definition I gave, which you'll be hard pressed to show is invalid, your method, as you've explained it, is a WILD..



I said it was a _spin-off of WILD_. In that post I didn't say that it wasn't something brand new, I just said that it was a spin-off that can possibly work.

Also, if you really are that picky about which tutorial I use, I will go ahead and change it to your guide. You happy?

On a separate note, even though you can sound like a dick sometimes, I'm actually a bit surprised you haven't been promoted to staff at all. Just saying.

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## Mzzkc

> I said it was a _spin-off of WILD_. In that post I didn't say that it wasn't something brand new, I just said that it was a spin-off that can possibly work.



I recall you saying it was different from WILD in a few posts, including this one, which I took for you claiming it didn't fit the definition of a WILD. I apologize for the miscommunication.





> Also, if you really are that picky about which tutorial I use, I will go ahead and change it to your guide. You happy?



Lol, use whatever tutorial you want, I'm just not a fan of the "official" tutorial, as it gives newbies sometimes unrealistic and unreasonable expectations.





> On a separate note, even though you can sound like a dick sometimes, I'm actually a bit surprised you haven't been promoted to staff at all. Just saying.



Probably 'cause I can sound like a dick at times. XP

I also don't play the social game here much, if at all.

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## Jay12341235

> Loads of times. 
> 
> But never once have I succeeded while trying to induce SP.



 Then I would assume you tried to use one of the tutorials here for inducing SP? They don't work well at all.

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## Mzzkc

> Then I would assume you tried to use one of the tutorials here for inducing SP? They don't work well at all.



No they don't. It wasn't until I stopped trying to reach SP that I got anywhere at all.

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## Jay12341235

> No they don't. It wasn't until I stopped trying to reach SP that I got anywhere at all.



If you really want SP, then check out the vids I posted here earlier, they do work. You probably don't need them though if you can WILD so much as it is

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## Mzzkc

I did check out the vids you posted, and I think you'd be surprised to find that the repetitive "hearing" of a word or phrase is a Mental Anchor, as described by BillyBob and myself. The only thing done drastically differently from a usual WILD in the vids is messing with sleep cycle so that SP and REM are closer, which is a pretty cool idea, I'll admit. 

However, you can hit SP just fine using any sort of anchor, and you don't _have_ to utilize a transitional method (the "separation"), but I can see the appeal.

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## Snowboy

_Update requested from Sydney_

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