# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  CursedSeraphim's Workbook

## CursedSeraphim

Hi DV!
I've known about lucid dreaming for a few years now. About year ago or a bit more I briefly tried it - had a few LDs but nothing fancy.
I recently had my matura in my engineering school which basically are the university qualification exams where I live.
Before that I got into lucid dreaming enough to have 2 LDs a week for 1-2 months but then the exams meant that I had to take a short break.
Now that they are over I've been trying to get back into lucid dreaming. I had one or two lucids but they were as most of the LDs I've had pretty short and uneventful.

Usually it takes quite some time for me to fall asleep - I would say on average 45min (sometimes 30 but sometimes 90)
I go to sleep very regularly at about 22:00 and wake up naturally at about 7:00 or 8:00.
I cannot take naps during the day as I just cannot fall asleep.
I have studied the topic of lucid dreaming for a long time and read up and tried lots of techniques and methods.
I try to make entries in my dream journal every day.
I try to do WBTB every one or two days.
I usually put my alarm to go off at 4:00 and when I do that I occasionally wake up about half an hour before that naturally.
When I do the WBTB I don't even get up because I naturally need a long time before being able to fall asleep and don't want to wake up too much (also I'm lazy and tired xD)
I meditate every other day for about 15 minutes.
I often do RCs (and they have on some occasions helped me in LDs)
After doing my finals at school seeing my now former classmates has become a dream sign but I am unable to make myself do an RC whenever I see them. I try mantras, imagining how I see them and do an RC but up to now that hasn't worked.
I am able to have very vivid LDs (if my level of lucidity is high enough and I follow the instructions of concentrating on my senses as can be read when following the link blow my dream becomes more realistic than real life)
I have read up on dream stabilization techniques such as this one "http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...-hours-ld.html" (by atkins513 not by me) but still my dreams haven't been very long nor have I been able to do anything I ever planned to do or wrote down (I only managed to remember once but my efforts of reaching the goal didn't give me any results). This might just be because overall I have only had about 20-30 LDs.
i have written down many activites, helpful tools such as archetypes, locations I want to visit, techniques for teleporting, techniques for summoning, vehicles I want to use, items I want to use, things I want to morph into and so on for when I am inside a lucid dream as a motivation and to keep my mind on the topic of lucid dreaming.
SSILD has often made me lucid and on some occasions given me several FAs.
If I remember correctly FILD has worked for me once but it is very hard for me to know when I am between being too sleepy and too awake for it to work.
WILD has never worked for me - I just lie there not moving at all apart from my eyes and my breathing and my body gets kind of numb but if I want to I can still move it but nothing ever happens at all - I don't ever enter a dream like that. Also very often the saliva in my mouth makes me swallow and the attempt has to be repeated.

Really hardcore scary nightmares make me become lucid easily.

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## CursedSeraphim

Went to bed a bit before 22:00
Woke up to my WBTB alarm going off at 3:40
I don't remember doing any particular technique and just fell asleep
When I woke up again there was lots of content I could have written down in my DJ but I was so tired that I kept my eyes closed until about 8:10
I then wrote down 2 dreams of mediocre size into my DJ

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## CursedSeraphim

went to bed at about 22:00 - did a few SSILD cycles
had an LD but it was probably one of the lamest one I have had up until now
I became lucid naturally inside the dream DILD style maybe triggered by SSILD but could be unlikely since it was without WBTB
at the moment I became lucid I saw some illegal activites of a DC who then started to pursue me with his car through suburban streets with lots of houses
I wasn't lucid enough to realize that he is no threat and instead of going through my routine of concentrating on my senses and so on I started super jumping from house to hosue to get away from him before waking up
had my WBTB set to 3:40
woke up naturally a bit after 1:00
turned off my 3:40 alarm because 1 WBTB is enough and I don't really want to get too sleep deprived
I think I tried some SSILD cycles again but I'm not sure
didn't have another LD
wrote 2 dreams of mediocre size into the DJ one of them being the LD

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## CursedSeraphim

went to bed at about 22:00 did several SSILD cycles - I did the complete technique without it being a lazy half-assed attempt so to speak
set my alarm for 3:40 and put my phone next to my feet
didn't wake up for the alarm - probably the sort of situation where you automatically deactivate the alarm while still being half asleep without really remembering it
when I woke up in the morning I remembered my dreams very vividly - much more than the last 1-2 weeks
I wrote down 4 dreams most of which I remembered very vividly
this might have happened because of the compelte SSILD approach even though it was not during a WBTB
at my peek (months before) I would be able to remember 6 or 7 dreams in vivid details

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## FryingMan

Hello and welcome to the DILD class!   You already have a great start on lucid dreaming practice, I think that you should just keep doing what you're doing.   A few comments:





> Usually it takes quite some time for me to fall asleep - I would say on average 45min (sometimes 30 but sometimes 90)
> I go to sleep very regularly at about 22:00 and wake up naturally at about 7:00 or 8:00.
> I cannot take naps during the day as I just cannot fall asleep.
> When I do the WBTB I don't even get up because I naturally need a long time before being able to fall asleep and don't want to wake up too much (also I'm lazy and tired xD)



For me, the middle of the night wakings are the time when I can get (hours long) insomnia.  I fall asleep pretty fast at bedtime most nights unless I'm highly stressed.   But once I started noticing middle-of-the-night wakings through intention (in order to recall dreams and perform WILD/MILD), especially when doing SSILD or MILD around 5-6 hours of sleep, I would frequently lie awake for hours.   In the end I taught myself relaxation, and discovered that I was holding tension in many places in my face (eyes, jaw).   In short,* I recommend looking seriously into resources that teach you how to relax yourself and not dwell on pesky thoughts that keep you awake.*    Sitting meditation is one way to do this.  In fact, you can think of relaxation for falling back to sleep as a form of meditation.   For LD practice, being able to wake up and fall back asleep a few times per night can be * very advantageous*.   It's also good for general health as well!      It's generally preferable to notice wakings through intention than to set alarms, alarms can be too jarring, we're conditioned to wake up fully with them, and they can blast away all dream memories.

It's normal for most LDs to be short in the beginning.   Most of my LDs are under 5 minutes, but they're still really fun.   I think some people inflate the length of  their dreams.   If you started paying attention to *every little detail* in waking life, 5 minutes would start to seem like a pretty long time!





> WILD has never worked for me



I empathize completely, I've hardly ever had WILDs (other than DEILDs).   I think many people mistake start-of-dream DILDs with WILDs.  In a true WILD, there is no discontinuity of awareness into the dream, and pretty much every time I've observed the start of a dream as it formed (which is a trip and really awesome), I experienced a discontinuity/disorientation   and wasn't quite sure how I got there.   But WILDs are great to practice, they require discipline and focus, visualization, etc., that are valuable in other aspects of LDing.   Expert LDers choose the approach to match the conditions of how they feel.     For example: you just notice a waking: first step, try to DEILD, doesn't work?   then try to WILD.  Doesn't work (after some predetermined time) or doesn't "feel right?")  Aim for sleep to get a DILD.





> After doing my finals at school seeing my now former classmates has become a dream sign *but I am unable to make myself do an RC whenever I see them*.



This touches on an important topic: training yourself to live "tuned in," paying attention, not living life "on autopilot."    With your dreaming background, you've probably realized at least somewhat that *at any conscious moment, you could be dreaming*.    Maintaining this mindfulness in waking life, especially with distracting activities that demand your attention, is perfect practice for lucid dreaming.  It takes time, be patient, but do you best to try to pay attention to life, waking or dreaming.   The more you're present, paying attention, participating in waking life, the more it will happen in your dreams.   The more you do it, the more you want to keep doing it, and the more you'll feel "not right" if you're zoned out and in a dull state of mind.

As for stabilization and goals, I recommend rehearsing the "I just got lucid!" moment when awake: see yourself getting lucid in a dream, then: slow down, take a breath, be calm, look around, rub your hands, pat your body if you like (I do this when I remember), recite a mantra that helps you with dream goals, realize the truth of the situation (that you're awake in a dream taking place in your mind).    

The balance that you practice during the day to pay attention to your mind and what's going on while it's happening is perfect practice for maintaining the balance of participating in the dream while maintaining the knowledge that it is a dream (in other words, holding on to your lucidity).   This is a delicate balance that takes a long time to progress in, but it's worth the effort.

Let us know if you have any other questions, and use your workbook here like you have started to to keep track of your progress and to stay motivated and hold yourself accountable to your goals.    Welcome and have great dreams!

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## CursedSeraphim

didn't set an alarm today because I had to get up early
wrote down 2 dreams in my DJ
one part of one of the dreams I remember very vividly



thx for the reply I will try and look into what you recommended :3

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## CursedSeraphim

went to bed a bit later at about 22:30
set the WBTB alarm for 3:40
did a bit of SSILD
woke up to the WBTB alarm
couldn't quite concentrate enough to do SSILD efficiently
woke up in the morning and wrote down 4 short to mediocre dreams
in one of the dreams I ate something and I remembered that very vividly

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## CursedSeraphim

concentrated a lot on awareness yesterday
went to bed at about 23:00
set an alarm for WBTB at 4:00 and put the phone next to my feet
slept through it somehow again
didn't have an LD but remembered a long dream with many details and wrote that down
only one dream though

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## CursedSeraphim

concentrated a lot on awareness again
went to bed at about 22:00
set WBTB alarm to 3:40 and put phone further away
did a bit of SSILD before falling asleep
woke up to the alarm
didn't manage to do much of the SSILD cycles
after waking up in the morning I wrote down 4 dreams
there where a lot of details but I was so tired that I kept my eyes closed for quite a while afte waking up which probably lead to losing a lot of the details

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## CursedSeraphim

went to bed at about 22:00
decided it was time to take a day off of WBTB
woke up naturally anyway
couldn't concentrate enough on doing an induction technique though <-- this really seems to be a big problem for me especially during WBTBs
I probably should try and stay up a bit and then go through some relaxation techniques as suggested
woke up and was really tired so I kept my eyes closed for quite a while forgetting a lot of a very detailed and long dream

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## CursedSeraphim

since taking a day off WBTB didn't quite work out the last time I did tried it this time again and didn't wake up
I was really tired when I woke up and I probably had the least success in remembering dream in quite some time due to that
I'll do a WBTB tonight

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## CursedSeraphim

1 LD

last night I set 2 alarms for my WBTB
one for 3:40 and another one for 3:50 to keep me awake
I did several SSILD cycles before falling asleep
then I woke up for my WBTB and remembered the double alarm thing
it worked and kept me awake enough to do some SSILD cycles - it wasn't perfect but it was a lot better than usual
I woke up and had bad dream recall but I remembered that I did have an LD
I just knew I was dreaming without doing an RC as most of the time
I should have done an RC and rubbing my hands and so on
I thought about how I should focus on my senses
during the dream I think I was in my room which happens very often when I'm lucid
the dream was over very quickly though - it is still next to impossible for me to have LDs that are long enough to do anything satisfying
I might have been too hectic and really should have sat down not doing anything until I have complete control and stability
I tried to call out for my Dream Guide which I have never seen before nor have I ever tried finding him/her/it
I recall seeing some sort fo massive green dragon like monster after calling out to her (I keep accidentally using the word her when writing this since I want whatever I find to be a girl ffs xD)
so possibly this is what I am going to see when I try to find the DG the next time - a massive scary green dragon

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## CursedSeraphim

set 2 WBTB alarms again for 3:40 and 3:50
did several SSILD cycles before falling asleep
woke up to the alarm
tried SSILD but didn't manage to do much as I apparently fell asleep and awoke again to the 3:50 alarm
second attempt at SSILD didn't go so well either
probably have to move towards getting up and staying awake for a bit in my WBTBs maybe I need some sort of plan or schedule on what to do when I wake up
had better dream recall and managed to write down more than in the previous days - 2 dreams in mediocre detail and 1 where I forgot most of it

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## CursedSeraphim

set one alarm for 3:40 and one for 3:55
put the phone right next to me as an experiment to see whether the thought of having two alarms was going to be enough
didn't work out sadly
did SSILD cycles before falling asleep
woke up to 3:40 alarm next to me
was to sleepy to get far with any technique
when I woke up I had much better dream recall than previously

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## FryingMan

Have you tried either the water or intention method for noticing more waking throughout the night without an alarm?    Although it seems like you don't have trouble getting back to sleep on the alarm, it still can jar you out of your dreams and make recalling more difficult.

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## CursedSeraphim

I haven't tried any methods to wake up without the alarm - it seems like the days I would need to learn how to do that I would probably have to not use an alarm and therefore have quite a long time without any WBTB at all
is there a noticeable difference because you probably wake up between REM phases like that if you succeed?

went to bed at about 22:00
same WBTB alarm 3:40 and 3:55
forgot to get up during my WBTB xD didn't get much of an induction method done again
had good dream recall though

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## CursedSeraphim

went to bed a bit after 22:00
spent a lot of time thinking about stuff I want to do in my LDs and how I would just not do anything and spend however long I would need to spend to focus on my senses and stabilize the dream
same WBTB alarm 3:40 and 3:55
god damn I was too reluctant to get up
forgot quite a lot of the dreams managed to write the one I had just before waking up though

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## CursedSeraphim

set my alarms to 3:40 and 3:55
I managed to get up a bit during my WBTB and I was able to do a few cycles of SSILD
didn't have an LD though
remebered an average amount of dreams

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## fogelbise

> I haven't tried any methods to wake up without the alarm - it seems like the days I would need to learn how to do that I would probably have to not use an alarm and therefore have quite a long time without any WBTB at all
> is there a noticeable difference because you probably wake up between REM phases like that if you succeed?



With the water method, the only learning required is figuring how much water it takes to wake you up in the 4.5-6 hour range. The water method also tends to wake you up at the end of a REM cycles, so it is a more gentle and natural awakening. If you don't normally wake up at all to use the bathroom then you may need to drink a full glass of water right before bedmaybe two glasses.

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## CursedSeraphim

the day before yesterday I basically did the same thing as before
since I didn't force myself to jump out of my half sleep to record my dreams I forgot most of them

yesterday I went to bed a bit later maybe 23:30 or sth like that
decided to do a break from WBTB
didn't remember many dreams

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## CursedSeraphim

1 LD - making a total of 2 LDs since I started writing these entries

think I went to bed at about 22:30
WBTB alarms set to 3:40 and 3:55
didn't do much of a technique neither when initially falling asleep nor during WBTB
when I woke up I was totally oblivious to the fact that I actually did have an LD until a few minutes had passed
in my LD I remember being pretty calm
after some time I focussed on my sense of sight and what I saw became so much more detailed as usual
but then the clarity started fluctuating and I probably lost control or the dream ended shortly after although it might have been a "rather long LD" of about 10 minutes
I didn't do anything interesting or at least I don't remember doing so
made a small DJ entry

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## FryingMan

Congrats on the LD!   Even little ones are great.   Yes I sometimes get the ones that I only remember if I dig for recall, they tend to get buried if you continue on dreaming non-lucidly without waking up.

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## CursedSeraphim

thx fryingman ^^
yeah if the LD is one of the first dreams of the night it is often hard to remember
non lucid dreams that I have at the beginning of the night are next to impossible to remember lately

went to bed a bit before 23:00
had 2 WBTB alarms for 3:40 and 3:55
had a long vivid dream from which I awoke to total awareness
this resulted in a very long detailed DJ entry

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## CursedSeraphim

set WBTB alarms for 3:40 and 3:55
don't remember much about doing an induction method but I think I imagined what I would do once I became lucid
slept through the alarms
did some longer DJ entries

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## CursedSeraphim

set the WBTB alarms for 3:40 and 3:55
this time though I tried different ring tunes in order to create a new factor and stop myself from just sleeping through them
it worked and I actually woke up to them
but I was to half assed and didn't raelly do any techniques
I'll have to force myself to act and maybe get a bit more awake so I will probably put the phone far away from the bed in the following days
only managed to write a short DJ entry

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## FryingMan

Sign up for the August, 2015 competition that Sensei's running, it's always a lot of fun!   Link's in my sig and DILD class announcements thread.

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## CursedSeraphim

thx for showing me that FryingMan

1LD

went to bed shortly after 22:00
put my alarm with the same new ring tune for WBTB at 3:40 and 3:55 across the room
set another alarm next to my head for 3:35 I think
before falling asleep I concentrated on a few SSILD cycles
after waking up to the WBTB alarms I had to get up and was a little bit more awake than usually during my crappy attempts of WBTB
I concentrated on SSILD again
I remember having 2 dreams after that
in one of them I became lucid for maybe 10 seconds during which I saw some guy next to me
I looked closely at his face and shortly after that I think I immediately lost it again

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## CursedSeraphim

last night was a weird one
I went to bed a bit after 22:00
I put 2 alarms on my phone for 3:40 and 3:55 as well as another alarm for 3:30
I put the phone right next to me
did a bit of SSILD before falling asleep and during WBTB
then I had some weird dream where I thoguht I was dead - and was the most relieving feeling like I can do whatever I want much like becoming lucid
so I'm not sure whether or not I actually became lucid at some point

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## CursedSeraphim

the night between 05. and 06. I did the same 3 alarms
went to bed at abou 23:00
didn't get anything special though and only a small entry in my DJ

last night i went to bed a bit after 23:00 and decided to take a break from the WBTB alarms forgot about the third one though
woke up to it but I have a sunburn couldn't really concentrating on anything it was to uncomfortable
had a mediocre DJ entry

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## CursedSeraphim

don't really remember when I went to bed probably around 23:00
had the same 3 alarms for 3:30, 3:40 and 3:55
was too tired though to concentrate on lucid dreaming though
had a mediocre DJ entry but
I think I should point out that almost every night I remember my dreams extremely vivid and I can clearly see everything 100% realistically at many points during my dreams
doesn't really help me to get lucid though as it seems
neither am I asking myself whether I could be dreaming no matter if I am in a zombie apocalypse once again or in a massive luxurious mafia appartment

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## FryingMan

Congrats on the vivid dreams!    I believe vivid dreams are a stepping stone to lucidity, and are a form of pre-lucidity itself.   It takes intention, memory, and a slightly awakened brain to get lucid, which is why WBTB is so useful, it lets you re-set intention, and it you do your WBTB at the right time, once you're done with your long deep sleep phases, it's easier to remember your goal to get lucid  in subsequent dreams.

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## CursedSeraphim

thanks fryingman
I should take that advice and remind myself to really get up for a bit during my WBTBs
maybe try solving a rubik's cube and going back to bed or sth like that

1LD

went to bed at about 23:00
decided to take a day off of WBTB
deactivated all of my alarms
a few minutes after waking up in the morning and thinking about what I had dreamt I remembered that I was lucid for a short moment
there was a cute girl I walked up to and kissed which made me lucid
as usual when I become lucid like that I held on to the kiss instead of thinking more about being in a dream and collecting myself first
and after a few moments I woke up I think

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## FryingMan

Congrats on your KILD! (kiss induced lucid dream  :wink2: , one of my favorite types of LDs!   However, as you noted, it is very tempting to stay there in the enjoyable moment, all those dream goals seem far away!    But in time, and focusing on the importance of your goals to you, you should be able to pull away.    In fact, I had a LD the other night that started with me getting lucid as I swooped in to kiss a girl, and I stood up, said "I'm dreaming!" and went on with the dream.  I used to spend the whole lucid time staying there in the kiss as well, so if I can move on from it to doing other things, so can you!

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## CursedSeraphim

thanks I wonder if I will ever not give into that should the dream start like that xD

did the most dedicated attempt to get lucid in a long time
I went to bed at about 22:30
I did several cycles of SSILD before falling asleep
put my phone away so I had to get up for the alarm
put a second alarm for the same time on
also this time around I tried a different time setting for my alarm and set it to go off at 4:10
I set a second device to go off at the same time
when I woke up for my WBTB I tried solving my rubik's cube once again after the known algorithms
after some time I went on and did some SSILD cycles until it got hard for me to concentrate and I started drifting away - pretty much exactly how you want it to go for SSILD as far as I know
didn't get any results this time though sadly
made one short DJ entry

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## FryingMan

> thanks I wonder if I will ever not give into that should the dream start like that xD



If that experience is one of your goals, well, then you're already there and there's nothing you have to do but enjoy it!    I've had *many* LDs that started and ended with the same kiss  ::D:

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## CursedSeraphim

went to bed at around 22:30
decided to take a break from wbtb since I had to get up earlier than usual
remembered many dreams when I woke up in the morning
I was pretty motivated to write them down immediately as well
I tried to remember as much as I could but almost all of the details vanished so all I wrote down was between 1 and 4 tiny rows of text per dream for each of them

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## CursedSeraphim

i did some rather long meditation sessions yesterday
didn't focus on any particular technique when initially falling asleep
set 2 alarms on different devices for 3:40
I think I only woke up to them very shortly and after I managed to deactivate the one on the device I'm not as used to I immediately fell asleep again
remebered lots of dreams one of which was extremely detailed
I was somewhere near to my home where I often visit to go swimming
I remember that everything felt amazingly realistic and the water was really nice and warm even though it was cloudy and grey outside
I also remember cutting off one of my toes without feeling pain only some sort of uneasiness very vividly yey

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## CursedSeraphim

fell asleep sometime around 23:30
had 2 alarms on different devices for 3:40
put my phone away from my bed
had to get up to deactivate it
when I went to bed again I tried to do SSILD cycles but couldn't concentrate enough to even do a single session of concentrating on visuals
had alot of vivid dreams though and wrote down quite a bit as well in my DJ

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## CursedSeraphim

went to bed earlier sometime around 21:00
did several cycles of SSILD
put two alarm for 3:40 on seperate devices
put my phone away so I had to get up
when I woke up to the alarm it took me a bit to realize that the alarm had gone off and I should deactivate it
did a bit of rubik's cube solving for a few minutes
when falling asleep I did several cycles of SSILD again
didn't have an LD but I had tons of dreams
lots of details were lost but I still wrote down about 5 dreams and lots of text

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## CursedSeraphim

did some SSILD when i went to bed sometime around after watching the jury 23:30
set alarms for 3:40 again on two devices - had my phone away from the bed so I had to get up
got up for my WBTB and deactivated the alarms didn't stay awake enough to do SSILD though

one of my dreams (non lucid) was very vivid and it was amazing - not that it was super fun or something that I had planned to do in an LD
I for some reason used glasses in that dream and they enhanced my vision like I did before without using glasses during an LD by just focussing on my vision
everything became much sharper and the high contrast of the colours espacially stayed in my mind

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## CursedSeraphim

first day of sensei's new competition
made a DJ entry
My DJ entry

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## CursedSeraphim

19.08. was the second day of sensei's competition
did SSILD when falling asleep initially
did a WBTB and tried a bit of mnemonics
had a DILD initiated by seeing sb who is dead IRL
made a DJ entry on DV

last night I woke up after a scary dream at 3:20 and I used that as my WBTB
deactivated my 3:40 alarm
wrote down as much as I could remember during that WBTB

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## CursedSeraphim

tried to do SSILD when initally falling asleep but it was pretty hard to concentrate
when I wkoe up to my alarms (again one of them far away enough so I had to get up) at 3:20 I was really tired
I'm not sure I think I thought about lucid dreaming and fell asleep again
woke up and laid there for a long time until I was remotely awake enough to try and open my eyes
at the time I had already forgotten most of my dreams
did some poor DJ entries - partially only fragments of dreams as usually lately

I wonder how I once managed to get 5-7 dreams a night - and even then I didn't have more LDs than 1 (really short one) every week
now it seems that if I actually want to try to remember more dreams I have to jump out of bed the second I wake up which isn't very nice obviously ^^

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## CursedSeraphim

23.08.
WBTB at 3:20 was really tired though so nothing special going on

didn't do a WBTB last night
only remembered 2 dreams but could write down a lot of details for one of them

did a lot of meditation lately

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## CursedSeraphim

gonna try some more meditation
maybe I'll even try some WILD the next time I do a WBTB

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## fogelbise

> I wonder how I once managed to get 5-7 dreams a night - and even then I didn't have more LDs than 1 (really short one) every week
> now it seems that if I actually want to try to remember more dreams I have to jump out of bed the second I wake up which isn't very nice obviously ^^



Most people have to stay still in bed with their eyes closed to get the most recall. Have you tried setting an intention to do that since you mentioned that jumping out of bed the second you wake up isn't very nice?

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## CursedSeraphim

you're probably right fogelbise I should probably set an intention again by using mnemonics and meditation again
basically sometimes when I wake up and I still remember more dreams I am often so tired and still half asleep that I lie there for another hour before I can get myself to rub my eyes and start using my DJ

had one LD the night between yesterday and the day before that
didn't do anything special no technique or anything - the possibility of everything being a dream came to mind and I instantly knew that it only could be a dream
didn't even do a reality check, tried to gain self awareness about how nothing I see is real and all is generated by my subconscious and so on
didn't last longer than at max a minute though and I wasn't lucid enough to remember dream goals and ankering methods
should have rubbed my hands and focussed on my senses or maybe tried spinning around which I haven't done yet in an LD

I remembered only one dream from last night but in lots of details which lead to a very long DJ entry

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