# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity >  >  Serotonin

## Lucius

I read a few things about a neurotransmitter within our body called "Serotonin",a high level of Serotonin. makes you have vivid dreams and lucid dreams,they say Serotonin is depleted by REM sleep(and dreams) and naturally restored by dreamless sleep,this might explain for why I never have a lucid after the day I get lucid.

They also mention that a to low level of Serotonin can make you depressed, therefor LDing everyday would make you depressed? Seems unlikely to me.

One person also mentioned he took a 1/4 XTC tab(XTC contains tremendeous amounts of Serotonin) and had like 5 LDs in one night,whoa wonder if thats true..

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## Ginko

Where you read this? Sounds intresting

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## Serinanth

I am currently taking melatonin suppliments, which is supposed to help regulate sleep cycles. I noticed that my dream time has increased and everything is much more vivid.

looked into seratonin just now, Its one of the brains main neurotransmitters and it is used for basically the same thing, sleep regulation, I may pick up a bottle and see what the differences are, If I do I will let you all know. 

More stuf I found, seems to be found in multi supliments containing several other neurotransmitters and is used to help with ADD/ADHD depression, and even weight loss. I also found several suppliments that contain precursors to seratonin, and also contains st, johns wort extract which has the effect of boosting levels of neurotransmitters in the brain by lessening the extent and rate at which they are recovered when gone unused for a time. Also contains B Vitamins, that indirectly help the body produce seratonin. 

Melatonin is very safe, I will look more into seratonin before I give it a try though.

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## jill1978

it makes alot of sense because the better I feel the more lucid dreams I have. I have tyroid deseise and when my thyroid levels get low my seritonin is the first to decrease....I know when my thyroid is off because I get really depressed....which has been lately, and also no lucid dreams lately.....I'm going to get my blood workup today because I hate feeling this way.

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## Lucius

Its true a low Serotonin level can cause depression,but a to high level can cause mania and schizofrenia,so its tricky,you need to find the perfect balance of both,and mabey a little more of Serotonin to increase dream rate/vividness

This also explains why I never have a lucid dream the ext day after I have one,REM sleep depletes Serotonin,regular sleep dreamless sleep naturaly builds it,I gues lucid dreams burn up xtra Serotonin lol

Milk and Bananas seem to help,so they say   :tongue2:

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## Skywalker

High levels of serotonin causing vivid dreams seems consistent with  people who take antidepressants (which regulate the levels of serotonin in the brain), many have reported experiencing much more vivid dreams than before taking the drug.

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## Ginko

*sighs* to bad im not depressed.

wait that means i am.


awww i just got exsited that i was depressed *kicks a rock, and iot accidentally hits Seri in head* oops

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## Serinanth

hehe... you gotta kick it half heartedly to get the full effect    ::wink::  

High levels of seratonin can be bad, from what I have read as well. It might be better to get the suppliments that HELP your body produce seratonin instead of directly supplimenting the seratonin itself. So you give your body what it needs to make seratonin and it does its thing and makes a little more than normal but wont increase it to dangerous and harmfull levels.

Check out melatonin, its safe =) and it helps with dreaming and vividness.

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## Lucius

Ok people I dont recommend to much Serotonin...I took alot of food that increase Serotonin,over the day I ate 4 bananas,3 eggs and 1 1/2 liter milk and some candy before bedtime and I think I got overdosis because in the waking world is was being all scared of even the smallest sound..I got all paranoid..

Then my dreams..oh yes they became very vivid but I dreamed about the fucking end of the world! And top of that it was lucid,I couldnt stop it,I went out into space and I watched the earth and it just blew up!! To damn vivid! I saw the fire and I got knocked away by the aftershock,I think I saw the sun go boom to!! Shit...that was to vivid

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## Serinanth

hmm I duno if eating foods that help produce seratonin will actually do so, to a degree that would be dangerous.

The body isint designed that way, it will produce what it needs, those suppliments that help also use a pickup blocker that increases the level a little.

You probably experienced the levels that you are supposed to have and i bet it seemed quite different, everyday stressfull life is hell on our neurobiology we rarely are operating at 100% because all the stress we deal with depletes our brains. 

As for the end of the world, those dreams suck ass. 

I looked up into the sky and saw a huge meteor, I thought it was the moon at first, and then realised it was way to big I could see it so clearly, when it hit the atmosphere it caused a shockwave and I saw its leading surface melt back, and then time slowed, I lifted up and around till I was in a high orbit, all the while i could see the meteor, I wastched as it slammed into the ocean right around indonesia.

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## jill1978

seri what do you reccomend to help your body produce more seritonin?

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## ChicagoRedwing2b

I will add my 2 cents to backup Seri's info about Antidepressents and people with ADD/ADHD meds.

I take Concerta for my ADD, and I now take Lexapro (Antidepressent) diagnosed mildly depressed to help level out my lows and highs more.

I have been on Lexapro for about 2.5 weeks now, and its starting to take more direct effect with me.

Antidepressents take nearly 3 to 4 weeks to build up properly in the human body so taking a few one day will not help anything, except to help you overdose and possibly hulucinate and possible end up in the hospitol.

But I personally have experienced an increase and more vivid, realistic dreams, and have started to induce more lucid dreams.

I have to be careful as my parents both took antidepressents and both started to hulucinate in and out of dreams.

I had a sleep study done not long ago, and was surprised to see the report by the sleep doctor concerning my brain wave activity level compared to normal human levels.

He reported that my brain wave activity during awake hours was 20% higher then normal human average, but during sleep my brain wave activity rose to a 30% higher the normal human average during sleep.

They told me this is typical of people who are higher thinkers, writers, dreamers, inventors, creators, artists, those that can think on a level that far exceeds normal human thought processes.

Particularly I was tested for information processing efficentcy and speed.

My results threw the doctors off as usual, LOL.

I am Dyslexic, ADD, and mildly depressed, and it was easy to see the information processing of linear, logic, left brained information as slower and less efficent.

But what got them going was that my information processing and efficency levels were near 35% higher then normal for phyisophical, psychological, abstract thinking, and free formed thoughts and comprehension of theray and fantasy.

Basically I had trouble doing simple mathmatical word problems in high school becasue the anylitical processing in my brain was screwed up, but I could theraize the concept of quantum physics and time travel as possible and then proceed to explain how it was possible and make perfect sense.

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## Serinanth

sounds like me, math + me = huh?
Me + theory = ahhh so blah blah blah blah.

Jill there are a few products on the market that help your body get back to the correct levels of neurochemmisty, whether or not how stressful a life you lead will effect what you have going for you now, I am not currently using any of those products, I am only taking a melatonin suppliment although some of the products I have seen are in the following links, do research and decide for yourself which would fit you best.

http://www.researchmedicalgroup.com/G-5HTP/index.html

http://www.amoryn.com/tg_serotonin.html

http://www.adderall-free-kids.com/science.html
This site has some good info on it and makes it easy to understand

Do some google searches and you will come up with a bunch of stuff, taking this stuff will alter your moods and stuff alng with appetite so take that into consideration make sure you trust the product you choose.

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## Lowercase Society

i just started studying Psychology, and in the behaviour aspects i read some cool stuff over Serotonin

ps. haha i asked my mom about serotonin and she said that chocolate helps you produce more, she may be confused with endorphins, im not so sure though

anyways...The related behaviour of serotonin is SLEEP, and Temperature Regulation, it is associated with the dopamines, which "help" with depression, and function also in arousal, and sensory perception 
serotonin is located in many locations in the body including THALAMUS and the brain stem

there is so much more about serotonin...but that is just some basic crap, if you feel like reading over it





> the truth is...you could slit my throat, and with my one last gasping breath i would apologize for bleading on your shirt[/b]

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## Serinanth

yeah its one of the main neurotransmitters in yer head, it dood alota stuff

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## Pandragon

> One person also mentioned he took a 1/4 XTC tab(XTC contains tremendeous amounts of Serotonin) and had like 5 LDs in one night,whoa wonder if thats true..[/b]




  This is only my second post here, but I thought this needed to be said:

  XTC (a.k.a. Ecstasy/MDMA) does not "contain" serotonin, it causes your brain to release stored serotonin in massive quantities. That's the "high" of Ecstasy.

  The problem is, releasing so much serotonin in such a short period of time damages the serotonin receptors in your brain, i.e. it makes it harder for you to feel normal and happy each time you do it. It also means your brain has to work extra hard to restore your serotonin levels to normal after doing the drug. So even if it works once or twice, it's not a good plan for LD'ing on a long term basis.

  There's plenty of far safer ways to increase the amount of serotonin in your brain. Such as:

  5-HTP - this a suplement that converts to serotonin in your system when you take it. Do some research before using it, and always use the smallest dosage possible. 

  Liquid Serotonin - this is the fastest (and therefore one of the more dangerous ways) to increase serotonin. You take a few drops under the tongue and it increases your serotonin levels rapidly (usually within a few minutes).

  St. John's Wort - this an herb that works in a similiar way as Prozac and other MAOI's. It has to be taken regularly for awhile in order to take affect. Usually for a a couple weeks or more. But like all MAOI's that also means it will continue to work for awhile after you stop taking it, so be VERY careful with the dosage! 

  Then of course there's always prescription drugs like Prozac and Zoloft, ask your doctor about those.

  WARNING: Never, ever, EVER mix MAOI's (Prozac, St. John's Wort, etc) with Ecstasy! It can create a condition called "Serotonin Syndrome" which is potentially fatal and really NOT ANY FUN. Believe me, I speak from experience. This can happen even if you've just been taking MAOI's recently but not the day you take Ecstasy.

  So, if you are planning to take Ecstasy (I hope no one here thinks that's a good idea), make sure you have not been taking any kind of MAOI for at least two weeks prior to taking Ecstasy.

  Disclaimer: Don't take anything I've said here as Gospel truth. Do your research, talk to experts, and for God's sake, please be careful! 

  Always Remember: Party smart, party safe, or don't party at all!    :Exclaim:  

  Ok, stepping off my soapbox now...

 :Oops:

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## CT

thanks for the information! 
Cant ever have enough information about the medical sides to LD'ing and how to induce them w/ supplements.

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## Pandragon

Well,  I figured it was the least I could do. 

  I just want folks to be safe. Besides, who needs drugs when you can LD?!?

 ::wink::

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## Human

It is true that much lack of serotonin very often is common to people who has a depression.
However, *too much serotonin can cause hallucinations and other sufferings!* 

When I have minor signs of lack of serotonin, such as very little and unvivid REM sleep, I use the naturally ways to increase the serotonin level.

*That is:*

-Eating dairy products, chocolate, etc.
-Drinking milk
-Eating bananas
-Eating ice-cream of milk and cream
-Are out in the Sun (this naturally method is supposed to be very effective,- even 15-30 minutes can be effective.
-Eating food with B-vitamin

*Caution:* Do *not* try to eat all of this at once, since it is different from person to person how this food affects body and brain.

I have also heard proteins could stimulate the brain to have more vivid dreams, but I don't know how true it is though.
Perhaps I will look for more info about that.

Regards,
-Human

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## TheUnknown

If this is true.. i'm gonna be in for one hell of an LD in the next couple of nights (i have not have many dreams for about 4 years.. and i just found out why)

This is gonna rock.   :wink2:

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## Howie

*Good information Pandragon.* 
Also you have to limit your time in the sun with St. Johns wort.





> _Originally posted by TheUnknown_
> *If this is true.. i'm gonna be in for one hell of an LD in the next couple of nights (i have not have many dreams for about 4 years.. and i just found out why)
> 
> This is gonna rock. **



That's great  ::rolllaugh::   We will have to call you Theknown

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## Placebo

Serotonin levels are closely linked to Melatonin levels
If you take melatonin pill (and have deficiency), your serotonin levels will begin to rise.

As I understand it, serotonin is actually responsible for the production of melatonin to start with, but its a mutual bridge there.

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## Human

> _Originally posted by TheUnknown_
> *(i have not have many dreams for about 4 years.. and i just found out why)
> *



I doubt that.
The vividness of dreams are of course different from person to person, but all and everyone dreams during the night, if they get enough sleep.

People who think they are dreaming very rarely, propably don't remember their dreams.
So in this case, is it propably more helpful with better dream recall than increased serotonin in the brain.

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## TheUnknown

It was related to sleeping posture, but i literally had very few dreams, now i have alot, because i remembered the way i used to sleep.  Call it dream recall, or dreaming more, whatever, it just works.

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## paralyzer

Serotonin is not available in pill form as it cannot pass the blood brain barrier easily(you would have to take massive levels of it for any effect).  It is contained in foods with high carbohydrates and also fatty foods which is why people get hooked on the horrible fast food which has no nutrition value but can raise serotonin levels and make you happy.  

L-tryptophan, however, is sold at pharmacies and the like and that breaks down into 5-htp which breaks into serotonin and finally into melatonin.  Taking melatonin will also increase your serotonin levels because it allows you to get a deeper sleep which regenerates serotonin levels for people who suffer from depression as well as other neurological disorders like antisocial personality disorder, borderline, narcissism, and similar disorders which all have shown to patients exhibiting low serotonin levels.  Antidepressants work for some but they only serve to trick the brain into thinking there is more serotonin in the brain than there actually is if you have low levels.  

Things like ecstasy do not contain serotonin but they cause it to be released along with many other chemicals and thinking that massive serotonin levels causes a "fun high" is not true and will usually cause extreme nausea.  If you have trouble sleeping, depression, or other behavioral disorders involving paranoia not only would tryptophan and or melatonin be a good idea but also a multivitamin that contains iron, manganese, zinc, magnesium, b5, b6, b12, thiamine, and folic acid is recommended.  Tryptophan will create more serotonin but is also alot more expensive, averaging around $20 for a 2 month supply.  Melatonin will help you sleep and will only raise serotonin levels if it is low and is alot more cost friendly at around $15 for an 8 month supply.

I have/had suffered a borderline personality disorder along with narcissism and after countless years of for a lack of better words a paranoid, antisocial, and sociopathic personality,  was able to make extreme improvements in all of the above areas after a 3 month regiment of a multivitamin, extra magnesium(multivitamin did not provide very much), and melatonin pills.

I rarely if ever had or remembered dreams with the exception of night terrors that didn't help in the restful sleep department until 3 months ago and now have much more lucid and peaceful dreams and I no longer wake up feeling tired and sore as I have in the past.

I apologize for the long post I just wanted to share information that took me less than a year to find out on my own doing research that made my life so much better and hopefully someone else can be helped and not have to suffer 10 years of having doctors do multiple scans, tests, and bloodwork just to say "it must all be in your head" and throw antidepressants and whatever other pills the drug company rep gives them to try out on all of us guinea pigs which rarely if ever solve anything.  Also the withdrawl symptoms are quite similar to heroin when coming off of antidepressants.  I quit cold turkey and would strongly suggest stepping down gradually.

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## antithedoxy

hi
I'm studying psychology at university and i've been doing some research in the area of serotonin and dreaming (thats how i actually came across this website..and got very distracted..damn..)

anyhoo.

just thought i'd give my own bit of knowledge and such....

basically serotonin is a chemical in your brain which has been associated with all sorts of behaviours and psychological disorders such as depression, over-eating, aggression, dreaming, alcohol-abuse, hallucinations etc..

you can't physically make your body make more serotonin - how drugs like ecstacy and also anti-depressents work is by blocking these things in your brain called 'receptors' which receive the serotonin and bind to it..like a puzzle peice. If the serotonin binds to the receptors then it gets used up, broken down and recycled. 
So if you've taken a certain drug which "increases serotonin levels" what it basically does it stops the serotonin from binidng to the receptor. so you have a lot of this chemical floating around your brain, not being used up, broken down or recycled. So all this serotonin floating around makes you feel happy. Howeverrrrrrrrrrr, since its not being broken down and recycled, once the drug wears off, your levels of serotonin will drop (coz its not recycled - there's not the same level of serotonin in your brain as there once was) and in the case of ecstasy at least (im not sure about antidepressents but in theory it should be the same)  your serotonin levels never return back to same level they were before. so you just get lower and lower serotonin levels, get more and more depressed, and then "need" more and more drugs. 
dont take drugs. 


and yes dreaming has been associated with using serotonin to dream. however, just because you have used serotonin over night it does not necessarily mean you have a reduced mood in the morning. perhaps if someone woke up up while you were in R.E.M sleep (where dreaming occurs) then you just may feel down - altho you'd probably just be peed off that someone woke you up in the middle of a dream. 
however, a few studies have found that depressed people enter R.E.M sleep more often in one night than someone who is not depressed - which suggests they have more dreams that the average person... so that sort of raises a few questions and problems - why would someone with depression use up more serotonin levels by dreaming more - your body is meant to try and restore internal problems and often does weird things to try and make things work like normal - so perhaps there's some advantage to more dreaming? or perhaps an advantage to lower serotonin levels...or even depression?

as for melatonin - i don't know much about it - but what i do know is that it is released in order to make you feel tired - and its usually released about two hours before you actually are tired enough to go to sleep. 

if someone wishes to dream i don't suggest attempting to mess with your serotonin levels - instead don't do exercise for the day - apparently exercise gives you a more restful sleep without dreaming (r.e.m sleep is not particulary restful - could be the reason why people with depression often don't feel rested after a nights sleep..) plus..if you dreamt every night you probably would not feel so rested so not dreaming is good for you. 

anyhoo..time for sleep

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## antithedoxy

> I will add my 2 cents to backup Seri's info about Antidepressents and people with ADD/ADHD meds.
> 
> I take Concerta for my ADD, and I now take Lexapro (Antidepressent) diagnosed mildly depressed to help level out my lows and highs more.
> 
> I have been on Lexapro for about 2.5 weeks now, and its starting to take more direct effect with me.
> 
> Antidepressents take nearly 3 to 4 weeks to build up properly in the human body so taking a few one day will not help anything, except to help you overdose and possibly hulucinate and possible end up in the hospitol.
> 
> But I personally have experienced an increase and more vivid, realistic dreams, and have started to induce more lucid dreams.
> ...



that's cool. i've always thought that some 'disorders' lead to improvements in other areas and your a classic example. it's quite prevalent in schizophrenia - often they are very talented in a certain area..think along the lines of 'a beautiful mind'.  you should read 'the man who mistook his wife for a hat' by oliver sacks. its a bunch of short stories by oliver sacks who is a neurologist - gives accounts of different cases with his paitents.. one man could only see the world in abtract shapes (something along these lines anyhow) and because of this he mistook his wife for a hat. 
if i could not only understand but explain quantum physics and time travel i would so become some mad scientist and win a nobel prize. try it..worked for einstien. im sure he had some disorders. how can you be 'normal' and come up with what he did?! ..seriously..explain that to me?!

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