# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  You have been waiting for this! Join the revolution

## Ev

That's right, because this is nothing short of it.* You've been waiting for this for years.* Drinking apple juice. Jumping through hoops with crazy techniques. No more. This is 21st century and* EILD is finally here!* With the Lucid Dreaming App for iPhone4 and a custom armband, you got *a mini sleep lab for less than 20$ US!* To give you a comparison, an actigraph that I own cost me 500$ and is a little black box which needs to be plugged into USB every single day to download data. The lucid dreaming app on iPhone *analyzes sleep data in real time* and plays highly customizeable reminders. It can vibrate, light up or play sound. It knows when you are sleeping, it knows when you are awake!

Estimated release date of the *lucid dreaming app for iPhone 4*: 12:11:2011 AD After only 6 years of research and development...

Pre-order armband! » Lucid Dreaming App

----------


## TahliaK

That looks awesome!. Good job!, is it going to be available to the IPhone 3 by any chance?.

----------


## Siphorix

$20? lol... Fail.. There areapps that cost $2.99 which work good.. but who buys apps anymore?

----------


## Ev

The app is 4$, the armband is somewhere around 12-16. And you'd be surprised about apps  :tongue2: 

It might run on iPhone 3 GS, but I don't have a device to test with, so iPhone 3GS might happen only after the release.

----------


## Arch

Shout out for EV, this is definitely something to be excited for!

----------


## Ev

Finally, a definitive proof of the wristband's effectiveness.

 The algorithm fires before I wake up from the dream, just in the right time frame for me to be certain that I'm dreaming. Combining all 6 algorithms = success at EILD  :Oh noes:  ::banana:: 

This kind of accuracy is impossible with any mattress based app. My iPhone has 40% battery life left after 8 hours of wrist operation. 

Spread the word
Pre-order armband! » Lucid Dreaming App

----------


## Quantiq

This looks incredible! How did you get the data onto Excel by the way?

----------


## Arch

Two collumns; Activity, Time
Paste em' in, then highlight and make a graph.

Awesome stuff Ev.

----------


## Wool

thats some pro research i will never understand..'

----------


## Ev

Thanks guys! Today marks the day that *may* change the world... Lucid dreaming aid for under 20$!  6 years of research into lucid dream induction, and I'm finally looking at something effective, affordable and widely available. Yet the day keeps unfolding just like any other day  :smiley:  

I would greatly appreciate if you indicate your interest by either voting in the poll on the pre-order wristband page or sign up for the waiting list. If you got any non-confidential questions about the product, I'd be happy to answer them!

The wristband is comfortable to sleep in, it is not hot, does not seem to get sweaty, does not compress or restrict the blood flow while sitting comfortably in one position over the whole night.

----------


## berryman13

> Thanks guys! Today marks the day that *may* change the world... Lucid dreaming aid for under 20$!  6 years of research into lucid dream induction, and I'm finally looking at something effective, affordable and widely available. Yet the day keeps unfolding just like any other day  
> 
> I would greatly appreciate if you indicate your interest by either voting in the poll on the pre-order wristband page or sign up for the waiting list. If you got any non-confidential questions about the product, I'd be happy to answer them!
> 
> The wristband is comfortable to sleep in, it is not hot, does not seem to get sweaty, does not compress or restrict the blood flow while sitting comfortably in one position over the whole night.



Hey there! Really appreciate the research you've been doing, but I have to ask -- will this update be released for Android? Will the wristband support my phone? I have an Inspire 4G, the dimensions are 4.84in x 2.68in x 0.46in -- the iPhone 4G dimensions are 4.5in x 2.31in x .37in.

Maybe it'd fit tight?  :smiley:  I'd definitely purchase this armband if it does! Please don't drop android development -- it's truly appreciated.

----------


## Ev

This update will be released for Android, however I'll need a new development device for that.  The detection algorithm 6 requires a gyroscope and the device that I use for development does not have that. Additionally, android may have battery issues. iPhone can survive for 8 hours running the app and still have 40% battery left. My android device discharges really quickly because it runs on top of Windows Mobile. 

There may be a wristband version for oversized devices. Or you can just ask you local tailor to re-fit an existing armand for you. It cost me 40$ to make one from my components.

----------


## berryman13

Do you think the android version will be any less accurate than the gyroscope-powered iphone? 

Also battery life will be so heavily dependent upon everybody's ROM, kernel, radio and device -- it would be no problem for me with my current setup but might be for somebody else; simply keeping it plugged in would be a quick fix.

----------


## Choi

This sounds awesome and I will buy and try it (Love the futuristic idea!) =) But can you explain how this would work exactly?
Sorry if you already have done that and if I have missed it..  :tongue2:

----------


## Ev

Hi Choi,
I cannot go into the details of how/why the algorithm works, I'd like to keep it a trade secret for a while.  Let's say that it *works precisely because of the gyroscope*, and this is why I must've missed it when developing the original android app. Because actigraphs are very expensive, and actigraphs with gyroscopes are even MORE expensive, I suspect this algorithm has been missed by sleep researchers for quite some time. I keep hearing that noone ever detected REM with actigraphy from the clinical research community.

Berryman, the android app would suffer from not having a gyroscope AND not having the same motion fusion algorithms that Apple provides to me as a developer. In Android, I was working with the *raw acceleration*, measured in Gs. In iPhone, I'm working with the gyroscope and* *user* acceleration.* This kind of filtering removes the effects of gravity and only leaves out the acceleration produced by the user. This kind of acceleration is a little bit indicative of the sleep onset, although the ratio 

Yesterday Arch performed a quick test, and his results were very similar. About 4 minutes of sharp rise in Algorithm 6's output, followed by a certain plateau. His test indicated significant spike at Time in Bed +1:30 and Time in Bed + 2:05, then the makeshift armband became too uncomfortable causing an awakening.

----------


## ShadowOfSelf

Very interesting Ev, had a quick look on your site and joined the mailing list.
Been looking for a decent app for iphone and this could be it! 
I wish you best of luck with it let us know how it goes

----------


## berryman13

Ev, does that gyroscope make such an astronomical difference? Lucid app 0.7.3 seems to have perfectly fine accelerometer movement detection for me.

----------


## Choi

> Hi Choi,
> ...



Aha yeah of course you can't say exactly how it works I ment the precise function like: Keeps track on when you sleep and when you are awake and so on. But thank you =) But I understand now.

----------


## berryman13

I would also love to add that some android phones do in fact have a 3-axis (I believe?) gyroscope; such as the samsung infuse 4g.

edit: infuse has a 3-axis gyroscope and a 3-axis accelerometer.

----------


## Ev

I went to school, enduring 4.5 years of grueling Electrical Engineering training. I took Calculus1,2,3, Physics 1,2,3. In a bunch of my classes I had to deal with differential equations. If only I was developing this project back then. 

Lucid Dreaming App 0.7.3 is my attempt at an app with computer science and logic. This is something that I taught myself. Lucid Dreaming App was my first major programming project. 
While I put a lot of effort into that, and it has been a bit better than all the other apps on the market, there are *some fundamental errors in the lucid dreaming app beta 0.7.3* . It uses old actigraphy algorithms, dating as far back as 1992. Those are used by *extremely* omgwtfbbq kind of slow actigraphs. They sampled data very slowly, and did not have the gyroscope. These devices couldn't even imagine having user acceleration or gyroscope in them! 

The kind of data processing that I'm running right now, in excel 2010 are killing the 4 cores of my CPU and 8 gigs of memory. 

As a result, they tell you if you are asleep or awake. That's it. 1 or 0. Lucid dreaming app 0.7.3 is kinda like that. It's more accurate than some other apps out there, but it still uses technology that is almost 15-20 years old. There's only so much I could do with that. I should pull the Beta down or put a disclaimer saying that "this does not work for lucid dreaming". It is an ok sleep quality app. 


 I don't know the state of the current actigraphs, but *what I'm seeing on my excel documents is nothing short of a major breakthrough.*  

I'm seeing the sleep cycles of a person clear as day. 
It's almost like looking at the 4 stages of REM sleep, based solely on the wrist actigraphy. This is my own's body motion, and I'm just looking at it the correct resolution, with the right window size and looking for the right things. 

The discovery of the detection algorithm 6 has made me look deeper into the math of the whole thing. I went to school for engineering and now recall just enough to say what a first deriviative is. I have pages and pages of equations, all of which point out to one thing, which I appear to confirm as I do more calculations:

MA = mental activity.

Mental Activity = Sum of functions. (function of the body(t) + function of the mind (t))

Awareness = Rate of change of mental activity. = MA'  
Consciousness = Rate of change of awareness = MA"

I'm trying to prove this. If this is true, it would allow me to not only to *detect* when the dream onset is happening, but also *control* your mental activity level by observing how it changes to my input (the audio/vibration/light cue). 

Together, I would be able to correct the guess of my equation and predict when you are going to fall asleep, see when you ARE falling asleep, see when you dreaming, see how you respond to the stimuli, and as a result, produce a certain change in your mental activity. The rate of change of MA would either increase or diminish the awareness. Think bineural beats on some serious steroids. 

If I'm correct, this would be able to produce lucidity with only minor training, by observing how the body responds to the stimuli.

I present to you, detection algorithm 5:

----------


## Ev

Here are the 3 day "forecasts" for the sleep cycle changes, as well as the lengths of each sleep cycle. 

In the image above :




> There was a lucid dream at 5:44, followed by some dream journaling, creating an anomaly in the output. Complete awakening has been reported at 6:07AM. The Detection algorithm 5 predicted that I would arrive at the end of the sleep cycle at 6:07. A short lucid dreaming sequence has been reported at 5:48, followed by a near-dream state. <strong>This is the direct result of interfering with the sleep pattern via lucid dreaming. </strong>








> TIB row stands for the time in bed. This is when I went to sleep at those days. By running the detection algorithm 5, I can predict <strong>the end times of all sleep cycles that the body has went through. </strong>For example on Day 1, I went to <strong>sleep at 00:41 </strong>and had the first sleep cycle at 1:53 The sleep cycle length column shows sleep cycle lengths for each cycle. These align closely with the 90-110 minute figure that is often quoted for sleep cycle length. This algorithm in real time predicts when the next end of a sleep cycle would be.

----------


## berryman13

You're saying this (can't speak for anybody else) to someone who's scraping by Calculus 1 ಠ_ಠ

Looks absolutely nothing short of astounding, though. Sounds like the gyroscope is as useful as it seems! Might I ask though, is the 3-axis gyroscope found in some newer android devices different from that of the iPhone 4? If this application is as much of a breakthrough as it seems, I'd be willing to pay a lot more than $4 for it -- and I'm sure others would too.

By the way -- don't be discouraged at those "I'll Pirate It!" votes on your blog... I'm sure this could be very profitable for you if you present it as it really is. I wouldn't worry so much on developing an intricate licensing system and such; it'll get cracked one way or another and people will pirate it. Sad fact for such an enthusiastic developer, but know there will be many people who would happily purchase it as well.

----------


## jojo946

this is really a breakthrough I commend you for your efforts and hope to try this app in the near future  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

I was stunned when i saw the waveform below


This is the biological clock sine wave from 3 days,

 It is roughly aligned on the time in bed. This is a 90 minute period Sum of sinusoid waves, which might just correspond to the functions of the mind and the body that I was gonna plug into the equations of the awareness and concsciousness :

awareness = rate of change of the functions of the mind and body.

 When the wave is rising, the awareness is increasing. when the wave is falling, the awareness is decreasing. When the wave is peaked, the awareness is either at the highest or at the lowest. When it is at the highest, it's easy to wake up and remember dreams, this is when dreams happen.
When it is at the lowest, the awareness reaches another turning point, which may be difficult to recall due to the sedating effect this may have on the body. 




You will notice that the top of the sine wave is jagged, cratered. This is either because my detection criteria is incorrect at the moment, or there's another type of activity is started. the mental activity wave, as described above is heavily oscillating, and if awareness is the rate of change in the function of the mind and the body, this is when the awareness is increased and dreaming occurs.

----------


## berryman13

Interesting...what is the difference between detection algorithm 5 and 6?

And are you proposing that the sleep cycle can be, although individualized, degraded down to simply a mathematical equation?

----------


## Ev

Berryman, not only sleep cycle, but your very awareness of that very fact can probably be downgraded to an equation.  It is probably a complex equation, but thanks to enganeering, it can be represented as a sum of sine/cosine waves of varying frequencies/periods. Kinda like an FM radio, it rides on top of a carrier signal, while the little change in frequency is amplified. 

Is this what Steve Jobs wanted out of iPhone? This device is capable of understanding the very consciousness of the human being? I had grandiose projects for the lucid dream induction device, but to think that the iPhone4 has been built as a consciousness detection device? This is really the thing that may link the human civilization together. A connected device which reflects, records and responds to your very awareness. It can represent the image of any person holding the device and imitate it for any other person holding the same device. Any screenshot, taken on any iPhone 4 would look the same on any other iPhone.

----------


## berryman13

Far above anything I can comprehend, really. I wish you the best of luck in continued development of this and the expansion of your project.

I'd love to see this become it's own device instead of one based on the iPhone, android, what have you; would be the Novadreamer 2.0  :smiley: 


http://www.cellphoneshop.net/i997armband.html -- Would this armband be as suitable as the one you tailored for the iPhone? Don't get me wrong, if you produce an "oversized" case I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

----------


## Ev

There are a total of 5 variables that I want to test in detection algorithms.  the #6 and #5 are 2 of them. I refer to them by their "code" names. There are 3 more that I simply cannot look at because the excel is *dying* trying to compute this. 

Regarding the armband. It's sad, but that's also the only commercially available iPhone armband there is. It might be suited for sports, it will produce some sort of a waveform, but the most accuracy may be lost, because in my armband, the back of the phone has flat contact with the body through a thin layer of spandex. 

As for the novadreamer, the iphone already is a novadreamer 2.0  :smiley:  It's the matrix 1.0  :tongue2:

----------


## tommo

> Thanks for discussing the app! The iPhone version would be significantly more accurate. Here are the results from the alpha test. I dont believe something like that is possible from the mattress based android lucid dreaming app. Sorry for the confusing UI, I really intend to clean it up for the iPhone. And then upgrade the android app to match the quality. It's going to be really simple and mostly automated. The UI of the android beta is so complex, because there are so many customization options for the detection and playback. You really have to know your sleep cycles very well and know how the app would respond to that. 
> 
> With iphone it would be: 
> Calibrate the app in 1 minute
> Set 6 reminders
> Hit the play button.
> Sit back and enjoy. I do the heavy engineering and math automatically to understand when your REM is going to occur. I would know when it would occur 10-15 minutes before it would occur and would know with a very high degree of certainty within 30 seconds of dream onset. After that, the reminder would be played !
> 
> 
> ...





I'm responding to the post from the other thread here.

AHHHHHHHHH :Oh noes: 
THAT IS AWESOME MAN!

So you're bringing it out for iOS?  Is the accelerometer more accurate in the iPhone or something?
Fuck.... might have to get the iPhone 4S now  ::lol:: 

Nevertheless, great work, when do you reckon it will be done?

Also, the new Galaxy Nexus has an accelerometer and a gyroscope:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/10/19/samsu...-galaxy-nexus/

----------


## Dark_Merlin

I find myself telling more and more people around here this same thing but Ev,

You are a *genius*. If I have to buy an iPhone just so that I can use your app, I will. I would be willing to pay WAY more than $4 for something like this, too. The kind of things this app can achieve, I hope you become very, very successful because of it  :smiley:

----------


## tommo

> I find myself telling more and more people around here this same thing but Ev,
> 
> You are a *genius*. If I have to buy an iPhone just so that I can use your app, I will. I would be willing to pay WAY more than $4 for something like this, too. The kind of things this app can achieve, I hope you become very, very successful because of it



 I wholeheartedly concur.

And yes, I would pay a lot more than $4 lol
And I think I am going to buy an iPhone just for this app as well.

----------


## Ev

Thank you  :smiley:  I should call apple right now and ask them if they want to help me finish the app just to sell more iPhones  :tongue2:

----------


## ShadowOfSelf

Hold up.. I just re-read, you say iphone 4, I have ipod touch, the latest one (before the 4s or whatever it is) im slightly confused lol is there difference? I only bought mine couple of weeks ago its the latest one but will it still work?

----------


## Ev

I've taken a much more serious engineering approach to this today, and found *3 more detection algorithms.*

One identifies awakenings. Nothing special here, this might be useful to correlate dream journal entries to the real time, if you don't date your entries. Potentially, this is great for dream journal kind of application. This would also help me time other algorithms better and avoid interrupting the user while the user is awake.

Detection algorithm 2 appears to be able to detect REM or the REM transition. 
It shows correct REM duration within the correct time frame and appears to be able to predict the next REM period. There are a few other intersting events that I found within  the suspected period. This means you no longer have to guess or look at your graph and scratch your head asking "When will I dream?" It will actually know the onset of the transition phase, and will be able to predict the onset of the next transition phase!

Shadow,

I don't have an iPod touch, and don't even have the option to test for it in the simulator. Maybe it's the same as iPhone. I don't know. My deployment target is an iPhone4, and I know it runs on iPhone 4 with iOS 5.0.

----------


## Ev

I present to you detection algorithm 2. Note the almost perfect alignment between the supposed biological clock (blue sine wave) and the sleep cycles #2,3 and 4

----------


## Zoth

Ev, really....amazing.

I'm not the first one to say this but you should get some cash for bringing up clients, because you will be making apple earn LOADS of it since loads of people gonna buy iphone 4 just because of you  :tongue2:

----------


## tommo

What do you think the release date will be Ev?

----------


## berryman13

Hope you can give android some of that lovin' ... being a student doesn't give me the money for an iPhone 4!

----------


## tommo

> Hope you can give android some of that lovin' ... being a student doesn't give me the money for an iPhone 4!



 iPhone 4's have gone down in price since the 4S came out.
I'm looking at this site for Australia now which sells unlocked phones pretty cheap.
And they will definitely go down for Christmas.
Also, as someone else said the iPod touch should work. $220 in Apple store is the cheapest.
It's exactly the same but without a phone component.

----------


## berryman13

> iPhone 4's have gone down in price since the 4S came out.
> I'm looking at this site for Australia now which sells unlocked phones pretty cheap.
> And they will definitely go down for Christmas.
> Also, as someone else said the iPod touch should work. $220 in Apple store is the cheapest.
> It's exactly the same but without a phone component.



Well ya don't say...looks like I could get a touch 4G for $150 on craigslist. I might as well do that!

Still, android love would definitely broaden the potential profit of this app, also I'd assume it'd be easier to publish...I'd love to see his own proprietary device made *just* for doing this coming out, that'd be sweet.

----------


## Ev

I just ordered an iPod 4th generation on amazon. I was working with one before, and it indeed is very much like an iPhone without phone. It has a smaller form factor, and will require a different mount. 

if you have an iPod, can you tell me if you can run this app? Bio2Real Time for iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPod touch (3rd generation), iPod touch (4th generation) and iPad on the iTunes App Store it uses the same development settings as the lucid dreaming app.

As for the release date, I'm aiming at 11112011 or 11102011 in honor of the Android app  :smiley:

----------


## berryman13

So I have 3 things to keep an eye on for 11/11/11 -- Elder Scrolls V and Saints Row 3.

 ::D:

----------


## Ev

That's my concern, the release may be overwhelmed by other major titles, but if the app makes history, that would be a good date to remember  :smiley:

----------


## tommo

And a big RC moment looking at the calendar  ::lol:: 

Wow, so really only about 3 weeks away?

YAY!!!!  And right near my birthday too!

----------


## IAmCoder

> As for the release date, I'm aiming at 11112011 or 11102011 in honor of the Android app



Too cool!

----------


## Ev

It's frigging 425 in the morning, and I'm mad at myself for having a bug in the app. The "cooldown timer" was set to 0, causing the app to go off indefinitely while in a dream. That would be a good smart alarm feature, but NOT conductive for lucid dreaming. 
The app works. Definitively.

 I've seen what  the "slow", sleep cycle 1 dream is like. It wasn't very much like a dream, but more like a very deep thought. The reminder fired 15 seconds after the dream onset. I've seen the very beginning of sleep cycle 2 dream onset. This is where the story in my head has enveloped me. The reminder got played after 30 seconds and just would not shut up! It got integrated into the content of my dream as a thought about my past job before becoming too powerful to completely wake me up and frustrate me enough to go and re-write some code.

----------


## Pops715

This is awesome! Who cares if the app costs a few bucks? Give up a latte or a hamburger for Christ's sake! And the wristband is needed to make it work. Given that most everything else out there costs upwards of a couple hundred dollars, this is VERY affordable. And if it works, it will be well worth it!

----------


## ShadowOfSelf

Ok so finally worked out that my ipod is infact 4th gen, lol hurray, anywho.. cant download bio2realtime at the moment (havnt updated to iOS 5 yet) is this one of your programs also?
I thought you might say that about the wristband, seeing as its smaller than the iphone.. will you be making it to accomodate for this, or a whole other wristband, just for ipods?

----------


## NightSpy2

WOW! This is absolutely amazing!  If I had an iPhone I would buy this! Haha.
I don't really understand though. Does the wristband have some sort of detector or what-not in it, which plugs into the iPhone and feeds it data?

Great work Ev!

----------


## Ev

I don't know about the ipod wristband yet. Once I get mine, I'll be able to test. it has a unique form factor- the curvy edges means that it may have a pretty snug fit. I did some testing at a local Walmart today, and found out that probably 98% of all "armbands" out there would not be very good for the purposes of lucid dreaming, because they are made for larger circumference biceps, and cannot even be locked in place at the wrist. Plus, the contact with the body is pretty bad. Too bad I already ordered one of these from amazon for 15 $ for testing. Maybe it can be altered.

Yes, Bio2Real Time is an "introduction" into the concept of sleep cycles and sleep phase. I will publish an update soon, as there are a couple serious bugs in the current version on the market.

----------


## Emiko

> As for the release date, I'm aiming at 11112011 or 11102011 in honor of the Android app



*loves* That Android app splash screen is the cleverest and most adorable thing ever.  :smiley: 

On topic: This is so exciting! I'm also an Android user, but this news makes me want that iPod touch more than ever...

----------


## ShadowOfSelf

I see, too bad about the wristbands.. though if you can make a good one for the ipod, id buy it 
Looking forward to this, shall update to ios 5 later and download that bio2real
On a side note I just slipped my ipod down the sleeve of my jumper and was quite a nice and comfortable fit, maybe if you cut a sleeve off and had it elasticated at the ends it might be good.. rather than plastic straps all around your wrist, just an idea, plus i dont know what your latest prototype is

----------


## tommo

> *loves* That Android app splash screen is the cleverest and most adorable thing ever.



I haven't seen the app, but is it something to do with binary code, but then there's a 2 in there?
Like an RC moment?  Very clever  ::lol::

----------


## Ev

If you have 2 straps of velcro, you may be able to wrap them around an iPod in a long sleeved shirt, creating a sort of a makeshift holder. You won't be able to interact with the screen though. 

Regarding the wristband - it does not have sensors. The iPhone itself is a sensor, it just needs to be kept in the proper position at night.

----------


## Ev

Tonight the app played only 1 reminder, during one of the dreams that I did not wake up from. It has delivered the reminder at a decent time, not perfect, but good enough. 

I remember suddenly seeing my iphone within it's case. I have somehow broke it in my hands by folding it along its center axis.  It kinda folded in two, but was still working. I could not see the screen very clearly (this is my current lucid task), but I was very aware of the crack along the middle and became worried about that. The dream continued with me thinking of what I would do, how I would exchange the phone, etc.

 My guess is that this sudden appearance of the phone within the dream was caused by the reminder being integrated into the content of the dream, because the phone used 2 vibration sequences as a part of the reminder.

----------


## Ev

I think the app is getting ready to a small beta test. It takes me a lot of time to manage the beta test, so I'm asking for 3 serious volunteers to help test the app. You will be using the app and collecting the data. I'm asking for at least a week of day to day use commitment.  As a perk for your participation, I'll analyze your sleep graphs and create a custom-tuned algorithm for each one of you. Please PM me if interested.

----------


## Arch

But isn't a sine wave just a mathematically generated wave. (Sine wave looks the same as a 'normal' evenly oscillating wave.)
Great data though.

----------


## tommo

I've just come across something which MAY pose a problem.

I was wondering how the iPod Touch can be so much cheaper, if it just differs by not having phone capabilities.  So I decided to find the processing power and RAM etc. as it's not mentioned on the Apple website.

I'm not sure if this would matter, coz I don't know how much processing power your app needs.

iPod Touch 4th Generation Teardown - Page 3 - iFixit

It only has 256MB of RAM.  The iPhone 4 has 512MB.
And it has the same processor as the iPad, first gen - 1GHz I think.

----------


## Kitties

> if you have an iPod, can you tell me if you can run this app? Bio2Real Time for iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPod touch (3rd generation), iPod touch (4th generation) and iPad on the iTunes App Store it uses the same development settings as the lucid dreaming app.



Seems to work okay on my ipod. 4th gen with ios5.

----------


## Ev

I present to you:

 the worlds first dream recording made with the Lucid Dreaming App. I don't know if this is important or not. Looks beautiful though.

This is a scatter plot in frequency domain



Now this thing is making a lot more sense!

----------


## Ev

I present to you, one of my dreams as a plot of real versus imaginary!

----------


## tommo

Uh oh, and as geniuses have before him, Ev has gone off the deep end....

----------


## Naiya

Interesting app, I think I'll have to check it out, and maybe invest in an armband.  :smiley:

----------


## Emiko

> I haven't seen the app, but is it something to do with binary code, but then there's a 2 in there?
> Like an RC moment?  Very clever



Yes, that's it exactly. In the lower right corner of the splash screen is one of the little green Android robot mascots. He has his eyes closed, and there's a dream balloon coming out of his head (you know, like a speech bubble, but it shows what the character is dreaming about). Within the dream bubble are two of the Android mascots. The one on the left (a DC) is saying "01102011," and the one on the right (the dreamer) has a big "*!!!*" above his head.  :smiley:

----------


## Erii

Ev. You create the best things.



Seriously though, your apps and what not have been super helpful in the progress of lucid dreaming ^__^ kudos!

----------


## Ctharlhie

> I present to you:
> 
>  the worlds first dream recording made with the Lucid Dreaming App. I don't know if this is important or not. Looks beautiful though.
> 
> This is a scatter plot in frequency domain
> 
> 
> 
> Now this thing is making a lot more sense!



Oh shit, it's a a double helix.
My brain just broke.

----------


## tommo

> Oh shit, it's a a double helix.
> My brain just broke.



 hehe, I was gonna say that too.  But I don't know if Ev is just trying to trip us out here or not lol

----------


## Ev

"My brain just broke" kinda describes how I felt when I noticed this. This is Fourier Transform of the activity that I was investigating. This is a 1024 second segment just before awakening from a dream. Normally, I would expect this to be a sum different sine waves, an amplitude and a phase, like this : A*sin(w*t) where A is amplitude and w is frequency. What i'm seeing is a sum of different helixes within frequency domain. It puzzles me quite a lot.

If I understand math correctly, the imaginary numbers (square root of -1) have been invented to allow for the signal to "disappear" from the real world, and predictably continue in the imaginary world. Then it can be calculated when the signal would return. This is fine for the real world. The fourier transform already accounts for the imaginary world, so for the signal to disappear from that world, there needs to be another "imaginary" world...

----------


## Ctharlhie

*pretends to understand and nods*

As other have said, if I had the means I would buy an iPhone for this.

----------


## Ev

I'll limit the discussion of the consciousness applications of this app to the Research section. For now, let me show you the results of the data processed by the app. Up until now graphs have been created in Excel. This is the result of the detection algorithms implemented within the app! The app can see this data in real time. 

I slept too deeply last night due to a bunch of supplements. The app played one reminder, but since I don't remember any dreams from the last night, i cannot verify the effectiveness.

----------


## Ev

Tonight the app created a beautiful sleep cycle graph! It looked so much like the yesterday's graph, that I had to re-check just to make sure.  The component that marks when the reminder got played broke, so I don't know if the app played any reminders. The graph tells me that it must've done so. I remember one dream, which was world war 2 themed. Suddenly a secret agent pulled out a black laptop, which was totally out of place for the setting and started to receive a morse/voice communication from someone. I clearly thought that such technology was out of place, but did not get lucid.

----------


## Ctharlhie

If you spontaneously became lucid on your own, would the app be able to track it? So you'd be able to see what time it was, which cycle, and all kinds of other bits of juicy data like that.  :smiley:

----------


## TheForgotten

> If I understand math correctly, the imaginary numbers (square root of -1) have been invented to allow for the signal to "disappear" from the real world, and predictably continue in the imaginary world. Then it can be calculated when the signal would return. This is fine for the real world. The fourier transform already accounts for the imaginary world, so for the signal to disappear from that world, there needs to be another "imaginary" world...



Noone understands math correctly  :tongue2:   That aside, another imaginary world?  That's an interesting concept.  I assume this could account for an OBE or even multiple/parallel realities.  However if it's measuring multiple/parallel realities, I would assume there would be a higher number of these occurances.  Interesting, keep pushing.

----------


## Signet

Oh, man, PLEASE tell me I can get this app for my pc!  Heck, I'll even buy a USB attachment if I can just get this for my computer...

----------


## IAmCoder

> Suddenly a secret agent pulled out a black laptop, which was totally out of place for the setting and started to receive a morse/voice communication from someone. I clearly thought that such technology was out of place, but did not get lucid.



Ha! You must have read this:





> one of my next hacks will be to blink a Morse Code or perhaps binary sequence that automatically transcribes in real time to: "F1RST P0ST!!" from within a dream.

----------


## Ev

In my attempts to solve the consciousness problem, I might've created the world's first Artificial Intelligence. It is an algorithm that defines itself.... in both time and frequency. It's quite remarkable  :tongue2:  I might post my musings on the subject in the research section.

I fear I might've just became the architect of the matrix .  :tongue2:

----------


## Ev

> Ha! You must have read this:



Whoa, that's genius. The morse code may be applied to the wrist as an input signal, and the output from the dream may be signaled with the eye movements in some serious experiements. The transference of the pattern from time into frequency of changes within the dream may  be studied, analyzed and refined. For this purpose, I've invented the AI, which I do not know if I have the capability to build. The AI re-invented itself in both time and frequency, with a predictable cycles and periods. At certain cycles the AI became either self aware or duplicated itself. Each subsequent cycle of the iteration becomes more aware of itself via autocorrection with the past iteration. Together, the entire thing rotates in time and frequency of self re-definition. 

Until the AI is created, we'll have to deal with the good old fashioned human estimation.

----------


## tommo

Just chill out there Ev  ::lol::   Focus on the LD'ing aspects, coz we want this app ASAP!  ::lol::

----------


## berryman13

Ev; if we can somehow dig together money to donate a gyroscope android device, would you be going along with the development for it?

----------


## Ev

Right now I'm stretched really thin. Coming into an android device without a clear algorithm defined will take some time. I would like to nail down the algorithm to be estimated and corrected before going into the android device. You don't need to donate a device, I can buy one myself if I feel that it is worth it. Let's see how the iPhone thing goes. 

What this means is: if I find a reliable algorithm, it would not be too difficult to implement it for the android.
If I do not have  reliable algorithm, I will just waste time picking up the Android. 

I'll try to build a brand new detection algorithm tomorrow and see how it works

----------


## Loaf

I didn't realize it was allowed to sell your products on DV, even if they are lucid related. :0

IMO lucid aids are a waste of money. The whole point of lucid dreaming is that its an amazing, natural, fun, and free thing to do. Throwing in a computer or whatever else doesn't guarantee you a lucid dream, it just speeds it up and at the end of the day you still haven't really learned anything. Just my two cents though. Only apps worth buying are those to monitor your sleep patterns for research IMO.

----------


## tommo

> I didn't realize it was allowed to sell your products on DV, even if they are lucid related. :0
> 
> IMO lucid aids are a waste of money. The whole point of lucid dreaming is that its an amazing, natural, fun, and free thing to do. Throwing in a computer or whatever else doesn't guarantee you a lucid dream, it just speeds it up and at the end of the day you still haven't really learned anything. Just my two cents though. Only apps worth buying are those to monitor your sleep patterns for research IMO.



No, the point of lucid dreaming is to have fun, and improve yourself.  Not doing something free.  And I hardly think LD'ing is "natural" for most people anyway.  We don't all do it automatically.  Why strive hard for something when you don't need to strive hard for it?

Using computers is a waste of money.  The whole point of using carrier pigeons is that it's an amazing, natural, fun and free thing to do.

----------


## Choi

The human being is lazy, why do you think we invented the remote control?  ::D:

----------


## berryman13

> Right now I'm stretched really thin. Coming into an android device without a clear algorithm defined will take some time. I would like to nail down the algorithm to be estimated and corrected before going into the android device. You don't need to donate a device, I can buy one myself if I feel that it is worth it. Let's see how the iPhone thing goes. 
> 
> What this means is: if I find a reliable algorithm, it would not be too difficult to implement it for the android.
> If I do not have  reliable algorithm, I will just waste time picking up the Android. 
> 
> I'll try to build a brand new detection algorithm tomorrow and see how it works



So the application will be released with only one algorithm? I like the sound of that!
And if I wish to donate in any way for that android device (i might be able to send in one), how would I go about doing so? I insist.

----------


## Ev

I got my iPod touch today. I'm updating it to iOS5 now. Having 2 face time devices is really fun, because they let you do crazy stuff, like look around walls, look through objects, etc  :smiley:   If 2 cameras are faced at each other, they create spirals into infinity  :smiley:  

Berryman:
The human body has one pattern of dreaming and waking, I intend to find a way to estimate, observe and correct my estimate of that pattern. based on that, the device would be able to deliver reminders consistently between Android and iPhone.  Thus the algorithm will be the same for all devices. If you really want to donate for an android device, I'll accept donations, but a bit later. There's a link to donate on the website: Lucid Dreaming App gets Donate functionality! » Lucid Dreaming App. I find myself torn between too many things right now: graphics, persistent data, detection algorithms, testing, managing online campaigns. It leaves me with mediocre progress along all fronts. The engineering analysis alone takes an incredible amount of time, since I'm working with a very wide, unknown signal.  

I'd like to be able to finish the engineering analysis that I'm doing right now, be able to implement it with persistent data storage on the iPhone, then focus on the user interface. All of this has to be done within the next couple weeks. My new iPod would help me make more progress in terms of testing, as I would be able to compare the results of the mattress vs wristband algorithms or test 2 algorithms side by side. Building an app with all the pieces understood is easy. It would not take too long. Right now I simply don't have time for Android. 

What I found today is that the human body is incredibly complex. the detection algorithms that I found earlier are barely tips of the iceberg of complexity that may exist within the human body.

----------


## Ctharlhie

Ev is unlocking the secrets of consciousness itself...

----------


## tommo

Yep, and I'm signing myself up for Matrix Beta testing.

----------


## IAmCoder

What could possibly go wrong?

----------


## tommo

Nothin, we're dreamers, we have the ultimate control.

----------


## Ev

The app runs on the iPod. I'm still waiting to confirm if the iPod4g has a vibration function. Mine does not vibrate. maybe if I jailbreak it. 

The secrets of consciousness shall be unlocked...

----------


## Loaf

> No, the point of lucid dreaming is to have fun, and improve yourself.  Not doing something free.



I believe I said word for word "point of lucid dreaming is that its an *amazing,* natural,* fun*, and free thing to do" free being the bonus, not the sole reason. Please no stupid semantics.





> And I hardly think LD'ing is "natural" for most people anyway.  We don't all do it automatically.



It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Its a natural process. Lucid dreaming isn't artificial, and it often occurs by itself anyway. Choosing to encourage it makes no difference.

----------


## tommo

> The app runs on the iPod. I'm still waiting to confirm if the iPod4g has a vibration function. Mine does not vibrate. maybe if I jailbreak it. 
> 
> The secrets of consciousness shall be unlocked...



https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0   -   No vibrator....

----------


## redking

> Hi Choi,
> I cannot go into the details of how/why the algorithm works, I'd like to keep it a trade secret for a while.  Let's say that it *works precisely because of the gyroscope*, and this is why I must've missed it when developing the original android app. Because actigraphs are very expensive, and actigraphs with gyroscopes are even MORE expensive, I suspect this algorithm has been missed by sleep researchers for quite some time. I keep hearing that noone ever detected REM with actigraphy from the clinical research community.
> 
> Berryman, the android app would suffer from not having a gyroscope AND not having the same motion fusion algorithms that Apple provides to me as a developer. In Android, I was working with the *raw acceleration*, measured in Gs. In iPhone, I'm working with the gyroscope and* *user* acceleration.* This kind of filtering removes the effects of gravity and only leaves out the acceleration produced by the user. This kind of acceleration is a little bit indicative of the sleep onset, although the ratio 
> 
> Yesterday Arch performed a quick test, and his results were very similar. About 4 minutes of sharp rise in Algorithm 6's output, followed by a certain plateau. His test indicated significant spike at Time in Bed +1:30 and Time in Bed + 2:05, then the makeshift armband became too uncomfortable causing an awakening.



If that app could be used in a Blackberry it would be kick-ass...at least for me!  :tongue2:

----------


## Ev

Sorry, no blackberry. I'm stretched thin as it is!

I've been busy re-building the data collection algorithms, now that I know what kind of data to look for. It is a huge and tedious undertaking. Today I spent over 14 hours looking at tables and debugging code. This pushes my bedtime further and further in, as I cannot go to bed without a working prototype. 

With 2 devices, I was able to run the algorithms side by side last night. This graph presents the result in a normalized form (1 is maximum). There are 7 peaks. One at bedtime, followed by 4 smaller ones, 1 large one and another small one. 

 I may make a hypothesis that my body was most ready to wake up at 10:30, but I pushed the awakening later. There was quite a bit of dreaming, but the new algorithms are not quite ready to pick that up yet. I'm also not quite sure what I'm looking at. I would expect a 90 minute sleep cycles, maybe I'm picking up lighter sleep or REM within the sleep cycles.

The red, purple and orange lines are iPhone data from the wrist. These are different algorithms that all demonstrate an increase during certain periods. The sleep cycles may be a bit messed up, since I went to bed really late putting all this together. 

The mattress results from an iPod are disappointing. These are the blue, cyan and green line. I will need a different set of algorithms to look at mattress data. I still see patterns when looking at the data visually, but the algorithms do not see it quite as clearly.

----------


## NightSpy2

^ I'm still completely confused as to how this works...
Are there like, little sensor things which pick up what you are doing or what?!?!
 ::?:

----------


## tommo

> ^ I'm still completely confused as to how this works...
> Are there like, little sensor things which pick up what you are doing or what?!?!



So that Ev can keep working on it, I'll answer this.
The iPhone/Pod contains a gyroscope and an accelerometer.
Ev is picking up the data from these (movement) and trying to create an algorithm which can detect when you are dreaming based on these movements, and then alert you to the fact that you are dreaming.

----------


## NightSpy2

> So that Ev can keep working on it, I'll answer this.
> The iPhone/Pod contains a gyroscope and an accelerometer.
> Ev is picking up the data from these (movement) and trying to create an algorithm which can detect when you are dreaming based on these movements, and then alert you to the fact that you are dreaming.



Ahhh ok!!!
Thank you so so so so much!  :smiley: 
Really appreciate it. Lol. Well, now that I'm filled in, I am even more amazed at how Ev is being able to do this. 
This really is awesome!


But, I know that when you're dreaming you tend to move more, as you're in REM, whereas in NREM you tend to stay still more, but isn't dreaming still more to do with the mind, rather than the minds effect on the body? Just putting it out there.
I mean, wouldn't it be more worth it investing into something which is more to do with the mind, which the iPod/iPhone can process etc, rather than what the body does in response to what the mind is doing? 
Sorry if I'm sounding negative, I'm really not trying to be! I am really amazed at this work/research, and I'm not trying to put down any of your work Ev, I'm just putting up a topic for discussion/trying to understand.  :smiley:

----------


## tommo

> But, I know that when you're dreaming you tend to move more, as you're in REM, whereas in NREM you tend to stay still more, but isn't dreaming still more to do with the mind, rather than the minds effect on the body? Just putting it out there.
> I mean, wouldn't it be more worth it investing into something which is more to do with the mind, which the iPod/iPhone can process etc, rather than what the body does in response to what the mind is doing? 
> Sorry if I'm sounding negative, I'm really not trying to be! I am really amazed at this work/research, and I'm not trying to put down any of your work Ev, I'm just putting up a topic for discussion/trying to understand.



Well, it's the other way around.  Ev has more details, but it's basically when you're in nREM you move around a lot.  In REM you are paralysed, and so you don't move lol

Another member here, IAmCoder, was developing an EEG dream detector, which obviously is detecting brain activity, like you were talking about.  But he also found that accelerometers are more accurate and reliable in detecting when someone is dreaming.

----------


## NightSpy2

Oh right. Haha, yea I thought it might be that too, coz you're in SP right?

Oh really? Wow that's awesome!  ::shock:: 
I'm so excited to know/be part of a community which is developing new and mzing ideas which are pushing the limits of dreaming further and further out. Lol if you get what I mean.
Heaps of the stuff made here is gonna go big, and I'm gonna sit there, knowing that I knew the person who created it, before he became famous.  ::D:

----------


## Ev

I'm sitting out here with no power due to a snow storm! As to whether the dreamer moves more before or after dream starts, I still cannot tell definitively. There are multiple types of activity that I'm testing. There are clear periodic changes of activity overnight. I will have the app tested as a part of a sleep study sometime soon. Then I'll know better as to what activity is dream related and not. 

There are likely 2 nervous systems involved

----------


## Ev

I got good news and not so good news.

the good news is that I found a way to play any file from the iPhone/iPod music library. This means you can use whatever you have on your iPod as a reminder, or choose one of the default ones that I will include. It gets even better: you can create a playlist to be played out as a reminder! 

I'm also getting fairly close to playing a reminder with the new detection algorithm.

The not so good news is that I won't be able to release this app on 11/11/11 . Looks like it will have to be december 1st or something like that.

----------


## Ev

The lucid dreaming app has made quite a progress in the past 6 months. Today, as I built the audio reminder selector, I've taken a look back at what was available for the Android:



Here's what I have prepared for the iPhone. This allows the user to select up to 4 tracks from the iPod library to be played in sequence, with custom volume level for each. Here I have cut out four 30 second clips from songs that deal with dreaming and added them as a sample reminder. I'm really excited about this. Are you?

----------


## tommo

> I'm really excited about this. Are you?



Incredibly  ::lol:: 

Hopefully I have enough money left once it come out lol

----------


## IAmCoder

Trust In Trance!

----------


## Ev

The new vibration spacing lets me place a vibration reminder 1 second before there's a quote from the waking life: "*The trick is you gotta realize that you are dreaming in the first place. You gotta be able to recognize it. You must be able to ask yourself: "Hey man, is this a dream?""*. This is when the intensitiy of the audio picks up, followed by another quote:"everyone knows, fun rules". 

It is really awesome, and it seems that I might've finally fixed the bug that prevented the audio from being played, so tonight would be the first night in a couple weeks when I actually have audio reminders playing. 

PS. Ramen noodles are your friend... I got 2 cases myself  :smiley:

----------


## antronics

..Hey sorry if this has been asked before, but can this be used with an iPad?

----------


## Ev

Success  ::banana:: 

Here's the first night of testing the new detection algorithm (a combination of other algorithms) along with the new music player. The detection algorithm delivered reminders in sleep so light, that the first 2-3 seconds of a very gentle song, played at 30% of the iPhone's volume woke me up immediately. Here's the song: it's one of the smoothest things I can imagine(first 30 seconds) 1200 micrograms - language of the future AMAZING musicvideo - YouTube

Every reminder woke me up from a dream, although for the dream at 4:11 my recall disappeared instantly. I know that I've been dreaming/thinking, but I cant remember about what. The recall at 8:14 is also messed up. I know that something has been happening, but cannot get a clear "entry point" for dream recall. 

In other cases: at 4:44 and 6:24 I was woken up from a series of long and clear dreams. *I expect that with a short 3-5 second reminder, combined with a vibration cue, I would be able to reenter these dreams with DEILD.* 

I need to upgrade my logging tool to log when the reminders have been played, then I would be able to know for certain how many reminders have been played. What I noticed about these dreams is that at the end of a dream at 4:44 I've seen 3 iPhone related objects, and even saw myself with white earbuds in.

At some point later at night I was looking at some very weird iPhone interfaces. Without logging I cannot confirm if these were the reminders being integrated into the content of the dream.



Here are the results from Arch, he's located in a different time zone and is using a makeshift iPhone holder. This one keeps bothering him, so there's only 5 hours of data. I'm plotting his data alongside mine to show just how similar the results are. Arch's bedtime is 2 hours before mine (11PM). Both graphs start at time in bed. If the app wakes me up from dreams at those points, I would expect Arch to experience a similar effect!

----------


## Ev

> ..Hey sorry if this has been asked before, but can this be used with an iPad?



Sorry, no iPad. I cannot develop for the devices that I do not have. Plus, an iPad would be very difficult to attach to your body  :smiley:

----------


## antronics

..Haha yes it would.  Thanks for the quick reply.  As I will make my next phone purchase just for this app, can I use an android or do I need to use an iPhone?

----------


## tommo

You're testing with other people too?
Can I get in on that!?
I think I may have PM'ed you a while ago.

----------


## antronics

..One more question EV, your app, what platforms will it be available for?  iphone, android, ipod touch?  If you could just give a list of what platforms and requirements it will be available for that would be awesome.

----------


## Arch

I smell the need for an FAQ page.  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

Arch has been a beta tester since the beginning, so I feel pretty good about giving him a buggy product to test  :smiley:  There have been a few more beta testers who volunteered before I started changing the detection algorithm. I will send them a version to test once I polish it a little bit more, as it will be their first exposure to the app. I expect this to be done in a few days. 

I've already answered that question in the FAQ available within the app  :tongue2:  

For the platforms: iPhone app iPhone4, 4S and above;
iPod touch 4th generation.
Please note that iPod touch has 50% less (~940mAh vs 1440mAh for iPhone4) battery life. 
While I can put my iPhone in my wristband and not have to worry about it (40% battery life left in the morning), my *iPod Touch 4g dies really quickly, maybe as quickly as 6.5 hours.* this means that it won't be able to play reminders during the last 2 hours of the night, which account for over 50% of the lucidity chances for the night!

Android app:
 Android 2.0 and up

*Not supported:* all iPads, iPhone 3GS and below, iPod touch 3, iPod nano versions, Android <2.0, All Blackberry, WebOS, All Windows Mobile, All Symbian. I cannot develop or test on the devices that I do not own and do not know how to distribute for.

----------


## crazydude007

Hoorah for Blackberry users like me who can't do anything remotely close to this!!!!! 



:'(

----------


## Ev

> ..Haha yes it would.  Thanks for the quick reply.  As I will make my next phone purchase just for this app, can I use an android or do I need to use an iPhone?



*I'd recommend an iPhone* if you are willing to pay for your apps. my iPhone bill is 86$ a month, and if I buy apps/music, it is even more.

* Android can be obtained cheaper*, I've seen some ads at 50$ per month, and there are a lot more free apps for the android. Android also has much more freedom, it will have more engineering gadget type of apps due to the platform's versatility. Yet I expect that* the latest and greatest apps would always come to an iPhone first*, because Apple makes it worthwhile to develop for iPhone platform, while Google bets on ad revenue. the trouble is that there are very few apps that are repeatedly used every single day. 

 I feel like advertising does not belong in the Lucid Dreaming App, due to the sensitive nature of the app (who would want to get a product placement in their dreams? brrr... ) . This is why, like many developers, I would target iPhone first, and then try to port the app over to an Android. 

In terms of an Android, it will have more peripherals due to better bluetooth and even limited USB support. So if someone wants to develop a USB powered EEG machine, it can be done on an Android, not iPhone. Same goes for a bluetooth, it is easier on an Android.

At the same time, iPhone would have a bunch of Air Play accessories, so if you have a home theather with air play, I would be able to play a reminder on your home theather using air play.  :smiley:  

So yeah, if you got the money, stick with an iPhone.

----------


## Ev

Here's the feature that I've been working on for the past few days: automatic REM window estimation! No more need to manually key in your REM episodes. No need to estimate them. The app will, over the course of several days adjust itself to your sleep cycle!

----------


## NightSpy2

Hey, what do the values on the Y axis represent?  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

the Y axis represents the app's certainty that you are entering a dreaming state.

----------


## Ev

I've worked really hard on the lucid dreaming app over the past month and a half. This allowed me to reduce the level of complexity of the app, compared to the Android version. There are no more 5-level-deep preference menus, and I put all the most useful features on the home screen, available at the tap of a button. I felt like doing so as a result of using the app for quite some time. Navigating menus in a half asleep state is not something that I want to put the user through. 

Still, I received some feedback that the current version might still be too complex. The world is going towards an app with a single button  (take a look at an iPhone, with 1 home button, vs Android with 4 and WinMo with 5).

This is why I put a* limited time poll* on my website, asking you this question. As an extra perk for participating, you would be able to see the current Lucid Dreaming App for iPhone GUI:
Get a sneak peek at the app's interface!
http://luciddreamingapp.com/features...mplicity-poll/

Based on your feedback, I would be able to either simplify the interface OR create 2 parallel apps : one for beginners, one for Pros. The catch here is that to simplify the app, I'll need to increase the internal complexity and add an uncommon level of automation. This is the exact opposite of something like the Camera lens, where a complicated manual lens is more complex, while a basic lens is less complex. A simpler app is more heavily engineered, while a more "manual" app is easier.

Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions!

----------


## tommo

Oh wow.... that GUI definitely looks complex.  Although you always have to see it in action with these things.  It always looks more complicated in pictures, or when one is not using it oneself.
I think either would be good tbh.  It just depends on what the options in the more complicated version would be.  And what options people would be missing out on in the simpler version.

----------


## Ev

btw, I had 3 lucid dreams in the past 2 days: 3 DILD, one of which I was able to re-enter using DEILD. This is with 15 reminders played, most of which were off target. It woke me up from 3 dreams and iPhone has shown up in one of my dreams.

The app has played reminders off target, and I improved the algorithm for tonight. Let's see if the trend continues!

----------


## Ev

The trend continues, I've now had lucid dreams for 3 nights in a row, *without* reminders playing correctly. It is really impressive, considering that my average for the past few months has been 1-2 LDs a month at most. All the LDs were spontaneous DILDs, with the similar theme triggering awareness. 

 Here's the improved algorithm that I've used last night:

The red line represents the app's certainty that the REM event is going to happen. The purple line represents dream events: large spike is a lucid dream, shorter spike is a regular dream. As you can see, the app's certainty approached 1 for all 4 dreams that I've reported(One is at the very end of the graph at 9:05). The app consistently detected the state 10-15 minutes before awakening from a dream. With this information, I can automatically schedule reminders spaced apart to influence the dream. Now I will test this version of the app (once I fix the bug with audio) and know for sure if other people are having similar results!

----------


## tommo

Interesting.  Why does the certainty go down right before the peak of the dream/REM?

----------


## Ev

I programmed it to detect dream onset. A more comprehensive sleep cycle analysis may be created in the future from the data available, but right now all I'm interested in when to schedule the reminders.

----------


## Robo

What does the armband do? is it just for attaching the device to yourself or does it have some sort of extra function?

----------


## Ev

The wristband keeps the phone at your wrist, allowing for you to feel the vibration and helping the app collect more accurate data. There are currently no products on the market that can accomplish this task, because all of the armbands are made for biceps and not wrists.

----------


## Robo

So wearing the armband for biceps on my wrist wouldn't work, even if it fit?

----------


## Emiko

I voted for "Give me features!" I like having all the options available to me. I also like that the Play/Start button is yellow. Thank you for that.  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

Wearing an armband on a wrist would work, if you can close it around, and it is fit. I have a couple nights of data when I was wearing both an iPod and an iPhone, the data is very similar. 

Thanks for voting for features, I like them too!

----------


## Ev

I've posted a video tutorial on Youtube on how to use the app's biological clock feature. This is a brand new kind of clock, intended specifically for lucid dreaming.

 It is similar to what my other app, Bio2Real time was trying to accomplish, except in this case, I have both the estimate of the biological clock and can compare it against the sleep data that is collected overnight. 

This feature is intended to :
1) Help you establish a consistent sleep schedule or
2) Avoid oversleeping by showing you when your lightest sleep stage is
3) Increase the intensity of your dreams by adjusting your biological clock.
4) Indicate the current sleep stage
5) Predict the next light sleep stage
6) Help with lucid dream induction techniques by showing you when (approximately) your REM episodes are related to the real time. 

it would be great if you can tell me what you think:
Using biological Sleep cycle clock for the Lucid Dreaming App - YouTube

Here's how you would use the dial:
1) Starting from the bottom, follow the outer dial until your desired hour of awakening. 
2) Pick the closest line on the dial to the desired awakening time. Read the outer dial to see what time that would correspond to. This means you may have to wake up earlier or later.
3) Go to sleep. The orange arrow turns over the course of the night, indicating both the sleep cycle you are going through, sleep depth, and the sun's position in the sky.

This helps you with dream induction techniques, for example for WILD you would wake up ~15 minutes before the end of a sleep cycle, and wait for the REM stage while remaining awake and conscious. I would expect that this dial may cut your "traditional" WILD induction times by half or more. When the arrow is far from the line divider, your body wants to be in deep sleep. If you try to induce LDs at that time, you will likely stay awake and turn around in bed without much effect.
The dial is aligned with the sunset, so the sunrise may not align with the sunrise times for all time zones and latitudes. I will need to modify the dial to correctly show the sunset and sunrise, indicating the correct day/night duration.

I'd like to hear your feedback on the dial. Does it make sense? Do you understand how it may help you with lucid dreaming?

----------


## Malac Reborn

Hey, hey hey!.... 


I like apple juice dammit.

----------


## Ev

> Hey, hey hey!.... 
> 
> 
> I like apple juice dammit.



 :tongue2: 

I must agree, I've been munching on apples, apple puree and yesterday I've cooked some rice with kidney beans. Check out this link: rice+kidney beans contains choline and vitamin B6, both very good for vividness: 
http://www.dreamviews.com/f44/beyond...-foods-117277/


Here are the results of my dreaming after using the app to pick the correct bedtime, and eating rice with kidney beans for 2 meals a day:

I remember* 7 very clear and long dreams (purple spikes).* Each had a story! This is almost twice what I normally have: 3-4.  The app played reminders(cyan line) 9 times, each with 3 segments, for a total of 9-27 reminders. The timing has been very good:4/7 dreams had reminders played before the dream awakening, with 3 dreams having reminders played after the awakening. 

In the last dream, I was following a story about a phone call from a friend. At the end of a dream, a DC asked me what am I doing for a living. I pulled out my iphone and told her that I'm an iPhone developer. I had a quick look at the phone, there was a grid pattern of icons, as expected on the home screen. The reminder got played before this occurrence. This is very likely the result of the reminder. There has been no lucids tonight.

----------


## tommo

Feedback on clock - It's much easier to see what's going on in the video.  So you can ignore my previous comment about it  ::lol:: 
It's very well laid out, and looks pretty simple for what it is.  Great work man!

----------


## berryman13

Just took a peek at the video. Take my money already! It looks awesome  :Eek:

----------


## Malac Reborn

Ev,

On your site, 




> - The reminder gets integrated into the content of your dream.
>  - You recognize the reminder



There are four assumptions that you ought to look into, two of which being, respectively, based in the aforementioned quote.

A) The likelihood of a "reminder" integrating into a dream, if successfully activated during a dream. Including various factors such as how such a reminder will manifest in nature.

B)The likelihood of a person recognizing a successfully integrated "reminder." Including various factors such as how one is to recognize a reminder that has been manifested outside its intended form of meaning.

Alas, there is 



> *You perform a reality check* to confirm the dreaming state



 that assumes two things;

C1) that, implicitly, if one were to recognize a suggestive meaning that indicated the possibility of that person being in a dream, then that person would do a reality check.

C2) Your other assumption rests on the premise that (a) if one were to simply have strong knowledge that one is in a normal dream, then a lucid dream will initiate - implying that LD knowledge causes awareness. (b) Or rather, if not simply knowledge causing awareness in a dream, then it assumes awareness was already present.

Addressing all assumptions, I would like to briefly explain how some aspects of the current model of use for your technology are likely doomed to fail in terms of being a means to a lucid dream, and how you could change this model for a better model.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Positive]

CA1: Regarding the likelihood of a "reminder" integrating into a dream - because of the manifesting nature of how a "reminder" may come into being, differentiating from its presupposed symbolism as a means of identification, and the obscurity of documenting  integration within a dream, evidence to support its success is unreliable at best. Whether integration is truly possible, is difficult to say. However, with much correlation between the similarity of audio/tactile stimuli of external and internal experience of many individuals, including myself,  I personally think integration is very possible. 

[Negative]

CB1: Sure, we could affirm with anecdotal evidence of what we _think_ may have "integrated" into a dream, but with other anecdotal evidence we could also point out that when upon seeing dream signs that may have been integrated, we still didn't "recognize" them until we remembered them upon awakening. In fact, this is _often_ experienced within the lucid dreaming community. So, in terms of a method being primarily used for the purpose of integrating a dream sign to be recognized, while still unaware in a dream, such a method would be unreliable, as with all typical DILD methods. Dream signs + unaware =/= Cause of recognition thereof.


CC1 & CC2a) Although, not every dream sign has been recognized while seemingly unaware in a dream, I can, however admit, that on some occasions, some signs, seemingly, have indeed been recognized. This is not to place a causal relation between the two, but to point out the obvious condition of recognizing a dream sign, while unaware, may exist, and as it may, would likely lead to some form of knowledge of being in a dream, as it seemingly does. In regards to having knowledge of being in-dream, there have been many cases of which individuals, though possessing the knowledge of being in a normal dream, have failed to produce lucidity. Thus, if these reports are factual, then knowledge, without awareness, does not, and by definition, cannot cause lucidity. So, any method with the sole function of inducing "dream knowledge" within a normal dream to directly stimulate a lucid dream, is essentially useless. 
 [PRO: Your tech, capable of other functions, does not completely fall into this category]

ALT - CCb) Of assumption *C2b*, if you instead were implying that in-dream awareness manifests outside of your method of dream detection, before its [method] implication, though you be correct, its assumption implies that for every time your method is used, the person using your method will already be self-aware. Such a prerequisite, as we both know, is not always present.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Better model (primary use)

I believe that your tech should be utilized for its "predictability function" as to what likely time our REM cycle is nearing. Doing so would make WILD much efficient, as you have stated yourself, and I believe that the tech's uses shouldn't be used to "remind" us in a normal dream, as I have shown the unreliability of that, but instead to keep us awoke at the right time, without hindering our ability to sleep, and then "remind" us during the time of which we're likely to have some semblance of consciousness within a dream.


Basically, I believe _any_ method should be to: 1) Prevent that which causes unawareness, 2) induce dream sleep, and 3) efficiently detect when in a dream



For more information on the why, I can present my arguments to support my view, if you're interested. Anyways, take or drop it  :smiley:

----------


## Ctharlhie

An interesting way of looking at things, but I don't think this is intended as a way of getting technology to do your lucid dreams for you. At the end of the day you'll need to practise some form of daytime awareness or MILD in order to get the best out of this app.

----------


## tommo

That^.
And anyway, you could easily have one of the audio reminders as a clip of yourself saying "You are dreaming dude, become lucid" or whatever.  There's no misinterpretation of that.
But even if you just use regular cues, like a vibrating feeling or a particular song, you would only need to get accustomed to becoming aware when that cue has manifested.  And thus also become aware when it manifests in a dream.

----------


## Malac Reborn

I await Ev's intellectual thought. He seems to be further out of the cave. Thx though.





> That^.
> And anyway, you could easily have one of the audio reminders as a clip of yourself saying "You are dreaming dude, become lucid" or whatever.  There's no misinterpretation of that.
> But even if you just use regular cues, like a vibrating feeling or a particular song, you would only need to get accustomed to becoming aware when that cue has manifested.  And thus also become aware when it manifests in a dream.



I'd advise that you re-evaluate this belief and the logic that brought you to it.

----------


## tommo

I think we'd all rather he work on the app instead of responding to your inane hypotheses.

----------


## Malac Reborn

> I think we'd all rather he work on the app instead of responding to your inane hypotheses.



 *EDIT:* [I've withdrawn my hasty insults]

 Bring real intellectual discourse next time, tommo. Until then, good day.



I await for Ev's response.  ::D:

----------


## Ev

> *EDIT:* [I've withdrawn my hasty insults]
> 
>  Bring real intellectual discourse next time, tommo. Until then, good day.
> 
> 
> I await for Ev's response.



 There's no need to fight over an unreleased app, which is currently being beta tested by ~6 people.

As for the debate: your comments are perfectly valid for the current Android version. The lucid dreaming app for Android was not quite as effective as I have hoped for. This is why the iPhone version has been improved dramatically. The app's share the same name, some of the underlying logic is the same, but the underlying mechanics of the iPhone app are totally different. This is why I would avoid making assumptions about the iPhone version. 

As for [A] how random reminders get integrated into the dream, yeah, it's pretty random and unreliable. I've tested voice reminders, music, morse code vibration, vibration against the wrist. None of them get "woven" into the story as expected.  What I've noticed over the months of testing, however is that even without a clear and recognizable dream cue,* the awareness is still elevated by external cues.* The elevated awareness manifests itself as random dream control or occasional DILD. Whether the awareness is a result of some part of the brain becoming activated by sound/vibration, I do not know. 

*One thing is for certain:* this will be a tool to help lucid dreamers of all skill levels take their dreams to the next level. The app uses *the most effective techniques for lucid dreaming*, which are woven into the very user interface of the app. The app's use itself becomes a combination of techniques whether the user is aware of that or not. For example, the geometically complex user interface spins in a dream, because the mind cannot comprehend it. How's that for a reality check?


Regarding the reminder being integrated into a dream:


There's *one extra piece of the puzzle* regarding the reminder [B] * that has not been revealed*.

 I've tried a lot of reminders, and finally found something that has been demonstrated to work, but in a different area of science, for completely different reasons. I will not disclose it until the app has been released. It's pretty good and takes care of both of the assumptions about integration and recognition [CBxx] *It will make sense* I cannot debate it's effectiveness now without compromising the "trade secret". 


Regarding the WILD/REM onset prediction:

For advanced lucid dreamers with billions of lucid dreams recorded,* the app is intended as a DEILD help.*. When awakened in the middle of REM, the difference between DEILD and WILD vanishes. Both methods may bring the user from the waking state into the dream state. 

I'm not sure if I've made that point clear enough:
 *DEILD is the future of lucid dreaming.*


This is it, the cat is out of the bag. If you are into DEILD or WILD, this app is for you. This is the app that I've spent years waiting for. And it seems that I'll have to make it myself...

Stephen La'Berge has discovered the reentry technique and included it in his "exploring the world of lucid dreaming", on the "trance induction of lucid dreaming.mp3", he says *"you can reenter any dream that you wish or create any new dream that you wish".* This was in the early 2000s or so. In 2004, I've discovered dream reentry, and since then I've seen multiple other people *post their independent discovery* of the exact same technique, under different names, such as dream chaining, wild chaining, DEILD, etc. All these are, in essence, the same technique - the ability to very quickly slip into the dreaming state if awakened from a dreaming state with even a tiny spark of awareness. 



*The catch is....* you have to be awakened in the middle of REM, and you need the spark of awareness. I'm lucky to wake up after each dream, and it's still not enough, this is why over the past few years I've been thinking about different ways to "rig alarm clocks", create timers and such. 

Finally, with the iPhone4, the sensor array, the multimedia functionality, all of the I/O, networking and data storage is available. It is at the user's fingertips, and it processed data in real time. There are a couple of detection algorithms that predict when the user is going to be dreaming. This is what will wake the user in the middle of REM and deliver the spark of awareness at the same time. The app itself is "protected" against various forms of False awakenings with a custom UI and built-in reality checks. 

This week I will be talking to a medical doctor at an Ivy league school about the app, wish me luck! In december, I would be able to compare the results of the app against a real sleep study. Together, I hope that these acts would improve the app's effectiveness.

----------


## tommo

Good luck!

----------


## Emiko

Good luck!  :smiley:

----------


## Malac Reborn

Deild is an efficient Wild. So I agree on its practicality. If your tech manages to spark awareness and helps us discriminate dream-reality, then we will have a very valuable aid at hand. It's good to know that you realize the importance to understanding the real nature of awareness initiation. Many people share the misconception that mere knowledge can make them lucid from a normal dream, thus leading some to waste their efforts on silly things such as "tedious recognize practices" for the hope of gaining that certain knowledge in-dream. Besides their negligance for knowing the low likelihood of an in-dream awareness occuring for such knowledge to even matter, they still continue their same discriminating efforts though they rarely ever manifest into a normal dream in the first place!

Inducing/preventing loss of awareness at the when, my friend, is indeed where it's at.

----------


## Ev

Success.

Last night I was testing the app in the "mattress mode". This played reminders a bit earlier than the wristband mode, but it still made sense in terms of timing. If 25% of the night is spent in REM, then the reminder would've still been played in REM.

At 3:06 the app woke me up with the first reminder. I felt that the WILD onset was close and after a minute of "vibrating" in bed, I raised my head and looked at the digital clock next to my bed. It was reality. 

Knowing the nature of WILD, I continued to stay in bed, although without a clear memory of the dream, I had nothing to focus on. 

Within a minute or so of the real world reality check, I found myself in a dream, next to the same clock, trying to fall asleep. I did another reality check and this one indicated that I was dreaming. 

The clarity of the LD was pretty good, and I easily recalled that my LD task was to closely examine the interface of the app within the dream. I scrolled through all the screens and noticed that while it did not spin as it did in a normal dream, the UI appeared wrong. There were no buttons, and it was cut into geometric rectangles without proportions, arranged in 3 columns. Each column had a single letter label, which did not stay consistent. The UI itself seemed forcefully compressed from a 2x3 ratio into something closer to 2x2

at 3:10, the app has played another reminder, which completely changed the story of the dream and turned me into a spectator. 

At 3:15, the app has played the final reminder that woke me up and allowed me to record the experience. I got out of bed and became too excited to easily fall back to sleep.

I've laid in bed until 3:50 or so, too excited to fall asleep. I was thinking of posting this back then, but reconsidered. As I laid in bed, I recalled that prior to 3:06, I've had other dreams.


Other reminders did not trigger lucidity, although I've had an interesting non-lucid magic competition of me vs Gandalf, in which he demonstrated how to defeat my techniques of existing within a wall and a brand new "anti magic cube" that I thought of on the fly. 

Overall, the mattress mode seems promising, and if I advance the timing of the wristband mode a bit, I would expect similar results!

----------


## lucidpplz

Ok I have been looking around and cannot find the name of the app!!! What is it called dammit! It would be nice if you could tell me thank you  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

The app will be released in early December 2011. I plan to submit it to apple for review on December 2nd. It may take up to a week for it to get approved, if there are no major issues.

----------


## tommo

Will you be allowed to keep the songs in there?  Or are they just your songs and we'll put our own in?

----------


## Ev

I will have a couple tracks with the app, the rest you'll have to buy on your own. I will include links to suitable tracks. You will be able to play any audio from your iTunes library. I think this is the simplest and most liberal way. I'm trying to get a couple of the local musicians to contribute audio as well, if they ever get off their asses, I will include their work as an in-app unlockable music. 

PS. Today I've upgraded the app's interface. It will blow your socks of, it's so cool! Wow, only 9 days until my estimated app submission date. Time flies!

----------


## Emiko

> Ok I have been looking around and cannot find the name of the app!!! What is it called dammit! It would be nice if you could tell me thank you



The currently-available one is simply called "Lucid Dreaming App," by Alexander Stone. It can be found by searching for that exact phrase in the Android Market. I thought there was also an iOS version, but I'm not seeing it in the iTunes App Store. I don't know for sure whether or not the new one to be released soon will have the exact same name.

----------


## tommo

I can play piano a bit.  I will try and make something and see if you want to use it.

----------


## Ev

Sorry, it will take too long to explain what kind of music I need over email. I prefer to work with someone local.

----------


## JubilantJD

Can't wait for this to be completed and released!
On iPods, it keeps the screen on the whole night right? Its like that for other smart alarm apps since the accelerometer doesn't work when the device is locked, and it bothers me a lot. I mean, it uses nearly all my battery and wastes electricity showing a nearly black screen for 8 hours. I even used screendimmer and in its settings turned idle timer off. Screendimmer is this cydia app that dims the screen and turns the backlight off after a certain period of inactivity. It can turn the backlight off for all apps except those smart alarm clock apps. I think the code in those apps used to prevent the device from autolocking also affects screendimmer's timer. Is it possible to add a switch in your app that prevents this code from kicking in?

----------


## Ev

The app does turn off the idle timer and shows a black screen for 8 hours. To run the app, you have to manually change the brightness to a minimum before use. 

As for screen dimmers, jailbreaks and such, I do not support such things yet. Only a pure vanilla iPhone4 and iPod 4G

----------


## dianhsuhe

On waiting list.. Thanks!

----------


## ShadowOfSelf

Hope all is going well with it Ev! sad i couldnt take part in the beta, will still get it once its released though - you got an ETA on the release date yet?

----------


## Ev

I'm running some final tests and writing user documentation. I'm looking at a release within a week or two. Sorry for the delay, these final menial tasks that I have to do, like testing, documentation and polishing the app are really draining. I need a very long vacation after I publish this

----------


## ShadowOfSelf

Ah ok great  :smiley:  not to give you more to worry about (you might already be aware of this / not sure if it will actually affect you) but ive noticed since IOS 5- apple seemed to have turned off certain features that work whilst the device is locked, including some alarms.. I was wondering if this would affect your app? if the device cant be locked it will drain battery quite considerably (from what i've heard) so the ipod has to be on charge or it will run flat during the night, and if for your app to work properly has to be attached to your wrist, that would mean having a wire attached from your wrist to the power plug all night, which doesnt sound to good for a few reasons.. again im not sure if this would affect you? just throwing it out there. Also yes you deserve a vacation after this i can understand the headache its causing you lol

----------


## Ev

Currently I have put the wristband mode on hold until I can get the app released. Once it is out, I'll introduce the wristband mode. Right now the app has to lay on the mattress with the power plugged in. I'm focusing all of my efforts on making the mattress mode reliably detect dreaming.

----------


## tommo

Well you can have some nice long lucid dreams too when it is done  ::D:

----------


## Ev

I got some very promising results tonight.

I have a recurring dreamsign: my elementary school, which is associated with high awareness. In 2004, i was able to use it and dream reenty to LD just about every day. Well, tonight this dreamsign showed up in 3 different dreams(out of 5 reported)! I was literally drawn to it. I have awakened from 5 dreams, all at very good, predictable times(end of a sleep cycle), which makes me believe that I'm getting closer to delivering the reminder just when it has to be done.  By the way, the current version of the app flashes yellow light for 5 minutes, on and off. In one of the dreams, just as I was leaving the dream sign area, I noticed a bunch of cars driving by, crossing my path. One of them was very peculiar, and I noticed it's yellow headlights  :smiley:  

It seems that if I push the reminder to be played 10 minutes later it will be more successful. At that point, it would be all about picking the right intensity.

----------


## Ctharlhie

So this app. It's a DEILD timer. It records your sleep cycles and ultradian rhythms. It's an EILD tool. 

Is there anything it won't be able to do?

----------


## Ev

The app will not read the manual for you  :tongue2:  It will not change how your body works. It will not give you an insight as to why you are dreaming like a baby one day and are having insomnia the next day. It is a tool and will not use itself.

----------


## Ev

Tonight, deep within a dream I realized that what I'm seeing is not real. Most of my dream recall starts just minutes before waking up from a dream, where I remember a few fragments that I can follow into a dream, but not so deeply. 

Tonight was different. I put the app into DEILD mode, and realized that what I'm seeing is not true, probably 15-20 minutes before awakening, in  extremely deep sleep, but very low awareness. First, I found myself in a theather with a whole bunch of programmers discussing my interface. They found some super cool technique to simplify it, but I don't remember it. 

Next, I found people moving through a barrier and turning into green spectres. That was quite weird. Finally, I saw a woman shooting guns from both hands. It was so incredibly real that I saw muscles tensing in her hands as she squeezed the trigger. At this point, some "detective" dude showed up and shot her. At this point I realized the absurdity of this all. 

When I realized that a dream character was "fake" he transformed, got a 6 barrel minigun and started to shoot at a skyscraper, literally tearing the thing apart. Think the scene from Inception where the architect realizes that she's dreaming. The amount of specular dust, broken glass and bits of concrete was incredible. The building tilted on a side and started crumbling. At the same time, I saw all of the debris falling in slow motion to the street below, 40 or so stories tall. The dream has been so deep, that it took me a page of the dream journal to recall why the building was collapsing in the first place. I think I got lost in the whole scene of destruction and lost my awareness at that point. The dream continued with 3 more episodes before finally concluding. 


One of the features of the app is the ability to understand when dreaming happens, and the app helps me align my bedtime with the sleep cycles. The result is that for the past 5 days I've recalled 4-5 major dreams each night and multiple minor dreams in the morning( I do not even record them). The dream above has been the longest and most detailed dream experience that I've had in a very long time. A lucid dream of that quality would quality as "epic".  I'm holding my breath before I understand if the app can really allow me to reenter dreams like that consciously so long before awakening. I'm pretty good at dream recall, and it took me quite a lot of effort to piece together different fragments of this dream:
 the theather, digitizing barrier, woman shooting, detective, minigun, escape, rest and meeting a bunch of card game players. 



I'm very excited to announce that I'm almost done with the manual for the app (it's 17 pages +20 pages of powerpoint  :smiley:  ) and will be submitted to the App store for review within a couple days, after I finish testing. At that point, I will probably start a new thread to answer all the questions that you might have about the app.

----------


## tommo

AWESOME!  I love you

----------


## Emiko

*shiver* I'm so excited for this app!  :smiley:

----------


## Ev

> *shiver* I'm so excited for this app!



You should be  :tongue2:  wait until you see the interface. It's out of this world (but there are 17 pages of user manual for it )

I will submit app to the app store on Monday, they shut down for the holidays on the 22nd-29th, I hope they will be able to approve the app in time.

----------


## IAmCoder

Congratulations! And respect for all the hard work that you have poured into this.

----------


## Ev

It's 11122011 or 12112011, whatever you wish, but the app has been submitted to the app store for review! I hope there are no issues and they manage to approve it for sale before they shut down for the holidays on the 22nd. The app is going to cost 5$, and as I say in the description, this is less than a gallon of apple juice  :tongue2: 


The app's name is Singularity Experience, which, I hope would stir some interest and controversy within the scientific community, and finally make them take a look at Lucid Dreaming. The pace of scientific discovery, engineering innovation and our understanding of computers is increasing at a double exponential pace. This means that the technology for monitoring human brain activity would only get cheaper and more powerful.




Singularity Experience. We put the 2 in binary

----------


## NightSpy2

Ev, that is *AMAZING!*

I might just buy an iPhone so that I can get this app.  :tongue2: 
I'm really excited to see the results of other people!

Great job man!  :Clap:  :Clap:

----------


## tommo

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Choi

Sweet, all I need now is a wristband..

----------


## ShadowOfSelf

Looking forward to finally trying this out, well done Ev, will post my results tomorow, or will you make a new thread for the release?

Edit: just realised its waiting on review, let us know!

----------


## Ev

I think this thread has outlived it's usefulness, I'll start a new thread, specifically for the Singularity Experience app. The current release only works from the mattress, since I have no glove to offer yet. The code for the wristband mode is already written, and would be released once I get a product going. There's also exciting new developments that happened just yesterday that I may or may not publish, depending on the results of testing.

Btw, if you are going to be buying an iPod or switching to an iPhone for this app, I will put up a link to Amazon on my website. I earn 7% commission on purchases made through those links                              , which is greater than the price of the app! This would really help me out.

----------


## tommo

Will definitely be buying one through the link, as long as it's a good Amazon store, not some dodgy guy lol

----------


## Ev

Cool, here's what I have:Get Hardware » Lucid Dreaming App the seller is apple computer, i got my iPod from them, it arrived in 3 days.

----------


## Ev

The ipod would still run out in 6 hours if running without external power. I've made the first version of the app work through the mattress. Additional modes would be available at a later point. Those modes would require battery power.

----------


## Shan

Can't find it in the app store. Has it been released? If not, when? This looks very interesting!

----------


## Ev

I hope it will get approved before December 22nd. Apple says it takes 5 days to approve an app, this is day #3, morning. Search the store for Singularity Experience, I will update this thread when it is approved.

----------

