# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Meditation >  >  I have a big visualisation problem when meditating?

## EarthToKepler

When I do visualisation meditation lets say walking thru a peaceful forest... I can hold that image for a few seconds until it collapses (its weird) on its self and turns into a ball and I can't get any imagery back because it'll keep doing it and ruins my entire visualisation 

But I can keep like 1 tree in my minds eye without it collaping on itself for longer then the forest thing

Any advice or tips?

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## MasterMind

Practise consistently without judging your progress.

Some year ago I, just like you, realized that I could visualize and hold an image and really see it until I became aware of that fact and it collapsed.

But it all comes down to practising, now I can hold it for about 10 seconds before it collapses and that is long enough to make it fun. 

The reason to why it collapses is because you lose your focus. When you are totally immersed in it you enter a flow state and the visualization is stable, but as soon as you become aware of the fact that you succeed you think to yourself "Wow I did" but by then you are no longer focusing on the image, but on your thought. 

In the real stable physical world, thoughts doesn't have an impact because this world exists independently and is not relying on your brain to exist. 
But in the non-physical world of your visualization your thoughts and point of focus have a huge impact because you are both the creator and the awareness experiencing the world.

So what is the solution, to stop thinking? In short, yes. Meditation is a good way to practise deep focus and to quiet down your overactive mind. However, later on when you reach a point where you can maintain both the image and your own thinking mind through multi-focusing, then you can experience the non-physical world as clear as day. I have not reached that point yet, still practising. I heard of this concept from an author who said it was possible to split ones awareness and both be in the real world and two non-physical world's at the same time. I still have a hard time grasping the possibility for that though...

Another simple way is to visualize something out of memory. In contrast to the advice given in the move Inception (to never create out of memories and always create new things) in reality, memories are a much more stable thing to go on. Because you have a much clearer and detailed view of that and can therefore focus more deeply on just the experience itself.

To create a forrest from scratch is very advanced, what I would advice you to do is to start visualizing something that you remember well such as your home, your work or something that you experience regularly and hold strong in your memory. When you are comfortable with that, start with just holding a familiar object like a cup or a glas or anything you like and slowly practise entertaining yourself with practising different visualization senses.

What I do is that I visualize myself in my room and do what I would normally do if it was a dream I wanted to stabilize and I treat the visualization like it was a weak dream that I slowly build stronger in my mind already lucid.  :smiley: 

Hope this helps and good luck!

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## flarn2006

> Some year ago I, just like you, realized that I could visualize and hold an image and really see it until I became aware of that fact and it collapsed.



If it collapses when you become aware, how do you start? Don't you _start_ aware?





> But it all comes down to practising, now I can hold it for about 10 seconds before it collapses and that is long enough to make it fun.
> 
> The reason to why it collapses is because you lose your focus. When you are totally immersed in it you enter a flow state and the visualization is stable, but as soon as you become aware of the fact that you succeed you think to yourself "Wow I did" but by then you are no longer focusing on the image, but on your thought.



How do you prevent it from collapsing altogether?

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## MasterMind

> If it collapses when you become aware, how do you start? Don't you _start_ aware?
> 
> How do you prevent it from collapsing altogether?



To be honest I don't know how it starts, it's more of a very vivid day dream than a visualization of my choice.

To explain what I mean by focus I can use a very easy analogy. Imagine reading a book, sometimes you can be completely "focused" on the plot and the story in itself and by then you are no longer aware of your surrounding, your eyes is totally focused on the letters. However then you might lose that focus and then you are back in the outside world. Just like for example you are now reading this text on a computer screen, while reading you might not have been as aware of the room that you are in, until now when I pointed it out.

So the way to prevent it from collapsing is to practise being focused on one thing with intensity. Because our mind's are so scattered by overstimulation in everything from social media to youtube videos. So when it comes to just focus on one thing for a few minutes, it's next to impossible because we have lost our ability to focus. Try it now, focus on your breath without getting distracted by thoughts "What is the point of this?" , "What should I be doing?", "How am I doing?",  or emotions "Ah this is boring", "Oh yeah I am really good at this" or sensations "Oh it itches on my leg!!!", "Hmm what was that tingeling?"

When you can focus on your breath with ease, you will also be able to focus on a mental image with ease.

Peace!

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## wocus

Can you name the author and perhaps the books that you were talking about?

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