# Off-Topic Discussion > The Lounge > Tech Talk >  >  Graphics Card

## Bayside

Hey, I'm in the market for a new graphics card, I've got a pretty decent PC besides my current card which is a NVIDIA GeForce 7300LE+, it sucks with anything dealing with shading, and whatnot....  Anyway, so I'm wondering what's good on the market right now for cards, something that will last a few years at least.  I'm willing to spend anywheres between like 250-500ish.

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## slayer

I have a 8800GTS 320mb and I'm running games like Portal and Half-Life 2 Episode 2 at MAX SETTINGS at like 1280x960 resolution.

It's freaking amazing...

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## Bayside

Oh, by the way, here's the rest of my system information, just in case it helps with anything....

OS Name	Microsoft Windows XP Professional	
Version	5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600	
OS Manufacturer	Microsoft Corporation	
System Name	FAMILYROOM	
System Manufacturer	HP Pavilion 061	
System Model	EX332AA-ABA m7580n	
System Type	X86-based PC	
Processor	x86 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2405 Mhz	
BIOS Version/Date	Phoenix Technologies, LTD  3.04, 14/06/2006	
SMBIOS Version	2.4	
Windows Directory	C:\WINDOWS	
System Directory	C:\WINDOWS\system32	
Boot Device	\Device\HarddiskVolume1	
Locale	United States	
Hardware Abstraction Layer	Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)"	
User Name	FAMILYROOM\HP_Administrator	
Time Zone	Atlantic Daylight Time	
Total Physical Memory	2,048.00 MB	
Available Physical Memory	1.15 GB	
Total Virtual Memory	2.00 GB	
Available Virtual Memory	1.93 GB	
Page File Space	3.85 GB	

I'd like to be able to run games like Crysis, as well as any other new games that come out in there relative future.

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## slayer

How much power does your power supply give?

I had to upgrade mine to 500W to use my new graphics card.

And crysis? How much money are you willing to spend? You can get great custom built computers for like $1000 or less or something.

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## Sornaensis

Hm. I can help you, but I'll need your I.P. address, your Admin's password, and your Social Security number real quick.

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## Bayside

> How much power does your power supply give?
> 
> I had to upgrade mine to 500W to use my new graphics card.
> 
> And crysis? How much money are you willing to spend? You can get great custom built computers for like $1000 or less or something.



I'm not sure, how do I check how much power supply it gives?  How much does it cost to upgrade that?

And like I said in my OP, I'm willing to spend about 250-500 for the card.  I just bought this computer a year or two ago, so I'm not planning on getting a new PC for awhile now.

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## slayer

Oh you have more than enough. I only had $100 and I got everything I needed...but then again I got mine off of ebay...

To check how much power you have, shut down your computer COMPLETELY! Unplug your the black cord in the back of your computer for safety reasons. Take off the side of your computer and look at your Power Supply. There might be something that says like 400W or 550W or something.

And while your looking, make sure you have a PCI-E slot. You should have one if you got your computer 2-3 years ago.

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## Bayside

> Oh you have more than enough. I only had $100 and I got everything I needed...but then again I got mine off of ebay...
> 
> To check how much power you have, shut down your computer COMPLETELY! Unplug your the black cord in the back of your computer for safety reasons. Take off the side of your computer and look at your Power Supply. There might be something that says like 400W or 550W or something.
> 
> And while your looking, make sure you have a PCI-E slot. You should have one if you got your computer 2-3 years ago.



Isn't there an easier way to check it, like a program or something...?  I don't really want to take the casing off....  I've heard that HP computers usually only have less than like 250W, which kind of sucks.

What's the PCI-E slot for?  When I bought this computer, the guy told me that this system was made for modding, he told me that these were good computers to get because basically everything was able to be ripped out and replaced with better stuff so I wouldn't have to keep buying new computers, and I could just upgrade some hardware.

I don't really have time right now, so if there isn't a program to check the power supply, I'll have to do it tomorrow night.

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## slayer

The PCI-E slot is used to put in your graphics card. The best cards today use PCI-E.

And no, I never found a program that would tell you what your power supply gives you.

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## Ynot

http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=502G

*edit*
if you're feeling really crazy, buy 2 and connect them together using Nvidia's SLI
(check your mobo can handle 2 PCI-e cards, both @ 16x before hand though

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## Bayside

> The PCI-E slot is used to put in your graphics card. The best cards today use PCI-E.
> 
> And no, I never found a program that would tell you what your power supply gives you.



Yeah, I do have a PCI-E slot.  I'm not going to bother checking the power supply, I'll have to take the computer in for the card to be installed most likely anyway, so they'll probably be able to tell me then whether or not I need a new power supply, and according to you, they aren't that expensive, right?

Also, Ynot, is that video card better than like the 9800 versions?  I have no idea, I don't know anything about them, I just assume the bigger the number, the better it is.  I just want something that will be able to run most games on high settings, and just be able to run in general crazy games like Crysis or whatever.

Thanks guys.

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## Bayside

I've realized my aspiration for a video card.  I care about nothing else, but I want it to be able to run Left 4 Dead on max or near max settings.  Screw everything else.

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## Flicker Flare

Your best bet right now is probably an ATI HD4850. Its currently one of the best value cards around. If you can stretch to a bit more consider the HD4870. If you want something really powerful, try the nVidia GTX 260 or 280. I have a GTX 260 and its performance is absoloutely stunning. Its very very expensive though, and you would definately need to upgrade your power supply so its probably not worth it. 

Looking at your system specs, I would advise putting in another 2GB of RAM as well.

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## Bayside

I'm looking at the GTX 260 right now, it's on sale at Future Shop for 280 dollars, and it looks like a great card.  Hopefully they have on in stock here....  Can anyone give me an estimate for how much it costs to upgrade power supply?  I don't mind doing it, but I'd like to keep the whole thing under 500 dollars.

Edit:  Nevermind, they don't carry them at this store, that sucks....

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## Marvo

> Oh, by the way, here's the rest of my system information, just in case it helps with anything....
> 
> OS Name    Microsoft Windows XP Professional    
> Version    5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600    
> *OS Manufacturer    Microsoft Corporation *  
> *System Name    FAMILYROOM   * 
> *System Manufacturer    HP Pavilion 061   * 
> *System Model    EX332AA-ABA m7580n   * 
> System Type    X86-based PC    
> ...





edit: Oh and yea, I've got a 260GTX. It's probably the best you can get right now from nVidia. Of course, if you go ATi, you can get some okay cards, though you might consider moving your computer into the fridge.
Disregarding that, if you're getting a 260GTX, make sure you have enough room first. The card is ginormous.

edit 2: Regarding powersupplies, I upgraded to a 750 watt instead of my 520 watt PSU. The 260GTX requires 2xPCI-E 6xStick cables, or it won't have enough juice to run properly. Secondly, the VRAIL (graphicscard power rail) has to be of atleast 20 ampere or something along those lines. 520 watt PSUs usually only deliever 18 amperes. The 750 watt gave about 60, which is plenty enough. Got it for about $140.

Also, I suggest that you don't give up on getting the card, just because it isn't in stock in your local store. Order it and get it with the mail instead. I did that, and that spared me atleast $50.

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## Bayside

Are there any specific stores that you can get video cards from?  The only place around here I've seen that sells video cards, is Best Buy and Future Shop.  Best Buy only had like four random cards I've never heard of, I don't think they were even nVidia or ATI, just random shit, and Future Shop doesn't have the 260GTX anywheres in my province even, so I'm not sure how I'd get it, and ordering online isn't really an option for me because I don't own a credit card.

Edit:  Also, what do you think about this card?  It's a good price, and it has good reviews, but as I say, I don't know much when it comes to video cards.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...0108453&catid=

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## Marvo

Don't ask me, I live in Denmark. Try Amazon or something like that.

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## Bayside

I think I'm going to go with the HD4850.  From the reviews I've read, it's nearly on par with the 260GT, for like half the price.  Also, it's one of the only cards actually available within an hours drive from my house....  Hopefully going to pick it up tomorrow morning.  Thanks guys.

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## Marvo

... and it will turn your house into Iceland.

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## ClouD

I use my ATI in winter as a personal heater.

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## ninja9578

> Looking at your system specs, I would advise putting in another 2GB of RAM as well.



I wouldn't, it would be a waste.  Windows is 32-bit, it can only use 3.5GB of RAM max.

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## Flicker Flare

> I wouldn't, it would be a waste.  Windows is 32-bit, it can only use 3.5GB of RAM max.



Maybe at least another GB then. Only 2GB is a little on the thin side for gaming these days.

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## Umbrasquall

You can get a 8800GT for like $100 nowadays with a good deal. I have one and it can run Crysis/Warhead on high at 1680x1050.

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## Bayside

> You can get a 8800GT for like $100 nowadays with a good deal. I have one and it can run Crysis/Warhead on high at 1680x1050.



Any idea where?  Like I said, I don't know where you would shop for something like that, the only places I know of are Future Shop and Best Buy, which for all I know, ridiculously over charge.  I just don't know of any other places around here that sell video cards.

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## Marvo

Just order it.

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## Bayside

> Just order it.



I don't have a credit card.

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## ninja9578

Ask a friend to order it for you and reimburse them with cash or check.

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## Bayside

> Ask a friend to order it for you and reimburse them with cash or check.



No one I know has a credit card.  Hence, it makes this all very difficult for me....  Damn, I really need to get a credit card....

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## cuddleyperson

well i personally have a HD4870 card but i heard the HD4850 is also really good, i just wanted to buy a whole computer that i'd hopefully not have to upgrade for a year or so ,two hopefully, playing the latest RTS games, which luckily aren't so graphically intense as games like Crysis.

Anyway it runs pretty hot but i have an Antec 900 gamer case which has quite a few fans and you can use a fan hack to change to fan speed on the graphics card, it's supposed to automatically increase but it doesn't they seem to be stuck on 21% speed, 40% is a little noiser but i really don't notice it when gaming and it makes it like 20c cooler.

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## ninja9578

> No one I know has a credit card.  Hence, it makes this all very difficult for me....  Damn, I really need to get a credit card....



Do Canadians not use credit cards or something?  I don't know anyone who _doesn't_ have one.   ::?:   Oh well, you can easily get one from your bank or from any card company assuming you aren't below the poverty line or have shot credit.  I can assume that you don't because you have the money for a graphics card  :tongue2:

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## Bayside

> Do Canadians not use credit cards or something?  I don't know anyone who _doesn't_ have one.    Oh well, you can easily get one from your bank or from any card company assuming you aren't below the poverty line or have shot credit.  I can assume that you don't because you have the money for a graphics card



 :smiley: 

I'm not sure if I qualify for a credit card yet, I'm only seventeen, I think you have to be eighteen to get one.  I can't wait till I turn eighteen, then it's internet shopping galore for me.

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## Bayside

I bought a 9800 GTX.  I'm not sure how good it is yet, so I'm not going to open it until I'm sure it's good.  It cost me 300 bucks....  Any opinions on this particular card?

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## ClouD

You should have a 30 day window for defective possibility or something like that, so the sooner you get it installed the better.
Pop. It. In.



8D

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## ninja9578

I'm confused by the chart?  What does power consumption have to do with graphics power?  

I'm not sure about DirectX, but OpenGL 3 (out soon) will split graphics pipelines between the graphics card and extra CPU cores.

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## WhiteUnit

Your running an AMD proc.  Whatever Vcard you get it needs to be an ATI, and Newegg.com is probably going to be your best resource for ordering it.

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## Bayside

> Your running an AMD proc.  Whatever Vcard you get it needs to be an ATI, and Newegg.com is probably going to be your best resource for ordering it.



Why's it need to be ATI?  The one that came in the computer was nVidia.  Also, I already said I can't order online, or I would....

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## WhiteUnit

Because ATI cards are made by AMD and they are built around each other. The general rule about Vcards is that if your running Intel go Nvidia, and AMD with ATI.

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## Ynot

> Because ATI cards are made by AMD and they are built around each other. The general rule about Vcards is that if your running Intel go Nvidia, and AMD with ATI.



sorry, but that's a load of rubbish
it doesn't matter what brand of processor or graphics card you choose

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## ninja9578

Actually, when the new OpenGL is finally released it will make a difference.  AMD processors perform floating point calculations faster than Intel processors (by about 10&#37 :wink2:  and OpenCL puts some of it's pipeline on your extra core(s) and OpenGL is almost exclusively floating point.

Lots of game makers are slowly moving to OpenGL because DirectX 9 is being phased out by Microsoft and game developers are really weary of DirectX 10.

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## WhiteUnit

> sorry, but that's a load of rubbish
> it doesn't matter what brand of processor or graphics card you choose



IYO

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## Ynot

> IYO



can you come up with some evidence demonstrating that GPUs are selectively helped or hindered by the brand of CPU

If anything, it's got more to do with the motherboard chipset than the CPU
(talking Nvidia's SLI or AMD's Crossfire, here)
specifically the chipset's northbridge

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## WhiteUnit

I'm just speaking from experience.  I work tech support, so I hear all the problems.  Most times when it comes down to graphics card problems that can't be fixed by simply updating a driver, it will be some form of ATI-Intel configuration. 

Honestly though, is it that far-fetched that AMD is more compatible with it's own technology? Also, if he has a AMD proc, chances are hes using an AMD mobo.

The question is opinion based, anyway. I'll speak from my experience, you speak from yours.  Just try not to be such a douche about it, mkay?

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## dylanshmai

> Because ATI cards are made by AMD and they are built around each other. The general rule about Vcards is that if your running Intel go Nvidia, and AMD with ATI.



thats a load of crap. They run just as fine with an intel chip. Show me the proof to back up what you are saying and I might believe you. 

you are crazy. You would have to update drivers anyways. This isn't an opinionated answer. I would have known about this for a long time if this was the case.

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## WhiteUnit

> thats a load of crap. They run just as fine with an intel chip. Show me the proof to back up what you are saying and I might believe you. 
> 
> you are crazy. You would have to update drivers anyways. This isn't an opinionated answer. I would have known about this for a long time if this was the case.



*o⋅pin⋅ion*

              /əˈpɪnyən/ [uh-pin-yuhn] 
 noun   1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.     2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.     3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.      4. Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.     5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion.      6. a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.

There you go, that should help you out a little.  Because it is, in fact, an opinion.

Once again, it's just from what I have seen, and it's what folks around my workplace have come to accept as well.  Don't agree? That's fine.  You can have your own special opinion.

However, I don't work for you, and I'm not chasing down your information. That would make me too much like this:



Fact is, I don't care what a couple of dudes think on an internet forum about Lucid Dreaming. I've seen my evidence and have been convinced and that's not about to change due to your B&M.

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## Bayside

> Actually, when the new OpenGL is finally released it will make a difference.  AMD processors perform floating point calculations faster than Intel processors (by about 10%) and OpenCL puts some of it's pipeline on your extra core(s) and OpenGL is almost exclusively floating point.
> 
> Lots of game makers are slowly moving to OpenGL because DirectX 9 is being phased out by Microsoft and game developers are really weary of DirectX 10.



You seem to know what you're talking about, what card would you recommend to me then?  Something thats like a good investment for the future, I guess, and I'm guessing nVidia?

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## ninja9578

nVidia seems faster for both DirectX 10 and OpenGL right now.

They've combined their GPUs and chipset onto one chip which makes it faster.

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## Bayside

Ok, thanks.  But can you recommend like a specific card?  I had a 9800 GTX I think it was, but I wasn't so sure about it, and I think I could've gotten a better deal on it, so I took it back.

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## ninja9578

GeForce.  9000 series for intel, 8000 series for AMD  :smiley:

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## Bayside

Thank you, I'll be looking into those.  Any reason that you would want an 8000 series for AMD?

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## ninja9578

Because NVidia recommends them that way.  I'm not sure why.

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## cuddleyperson

> Because NVidia recommends them that way.  I'm not sure why.



yes but logically if a 9800GTX is noticably better then say an 8800GT you should go with it.

Anyway i have an Intel processor and an ATI card and i don't see any problems all my games run smooooth. :boogie:

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## Marvo

> I'm just speaking from experience.  I work tech support, so I hear all the problems.  Most times when it comes down to graphics card problems that can't be fixed by simply updating a driver, it will be some form of ATI-Intel configuration. 
> 
> Honestly though, is it that far-fetched that AMD is more compatible with it's own technology? Also, if he has a AMD proc, chances are hes using an AMD mobo.
> 
> The question is opinion based, anyway. I'll speak from my experience, you speak from yours.  Just try not to be such a douche about it, mkay?



AMD has only been in control of ATI for about a year or so.

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## AirRick101

LOL, WhiteUnit, the comic frame in your sig is hella true.

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