# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  Raziiel's Workbook (The Frenchy's Workbook)

## Raziiel

Hi everyone and welcome to The Frenchy's Workbook  :smiley: 

First I want to say thank you to Fogelbise because I'm here thanks to him  :smiley: 

My name is Bryan you can also call me Raziiel, I'm 20, I'm a student and as you've seen it in the title I'm French and I live in Bordeaux. About this, you'll see that my english is not perfect but I'll do my best  :smiley: 

I discovered LDs about a week ago and I got really interested in it, I read something like 3 to 4 hours a day about LDs and I'm not bored at all, since I discovered LDs I'm trying to have one and I'll never give up until I get one  :smiley: 

Let's get to the most interesting part, I started a DJ the first night and I'm using mantras to improve my recall, I feel like it's working, I remember at least one dream a night and the first night I tried I remembered 5 dreams. Usually I remember 2 dreams a night.
I also started to do RCs since the day I discovered LDs, at first I was only looking at my hands but now while I look at my hands I'm thinking about what I've done before in my day and I'm questioning reality, I'm also trying to use the ADA technique but it's pretty difficult to maintain awareness for a long time, at night I pinch my nose because it's dark and I can't see my hands ^^

My first goal in a LD is to fly so when I'm remembering my dreams and searching where I should have seen that it was a dream I like to imagine myself doing a RC and starting to fly around.
I started with the MILD technique using a simple mantra, "When I dream, I realize that I dream", I'm also doing WBTB as I read that it increases the chances to get a LD by 5, I discovered the SSILD techniques 2 days ago and I used it 2 times after a WBTB. (You'll have the details on this thread http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...-ssild-40.html)
Yesterday, I said to myself multiple times that I'll wake up in 5 hours and I succeeded it was the first time I was trying to do a WBTB without an alarm clock so I'm pretty happy about that  :smiley: 
For now I didn't get any LDs but I had 3 FAs the last one that I had was with the SSILD technique and I'm also pretty happy about this one because I questioned reality in the dream even if I didn't get lucid I think that's a good start and I'm sure I'll get one  :smiley: 

For the next days I think I'm going to stuck with ADA and RCs during day and MILD WBTB and SSILD at night, I'll be a lot on the forum reading about LDs and I am also reading on of Laberge's book.

I'll try to post everything important that I'm doing and I hope this Workbook will help me in my quest for lucidity  :smiley: 

Let me know if I forget something or if you have any question I'll be happy to answer  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Welcome Raziiel!  :smiley:  It sounds like you have a good foundation of practices starting out! Yes, ADA can be a bit overwhelming. If you find that you risk burning yourself out (that you are feeling overworked) with your practices, you can probably take a break from the ADA, but try to keep up the rest of what you are doing. I have had success without ADA, but find that the various practices lead me to being more aware over the years.





> My first goal in a LD is to fly so when I'm remembering my dreams and searching where I should have seen that it was a dream I like to imagine myself doing a RC and starting to fly around.



This is a great practice to do anytime while awake and can be fun and get you excited about the lucid adventures that you will be having!

Let us know if you have any questions!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

I tried again to do a WBTB - SSILD yesterday and since I had a little trouble falling asleep the last time, I decided to stay in bed and to do nothing, unfortunately I fell asleep really quick so tonight I'm gonna try to get up and go to the toilet or something like that to stay awake longer  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Exactly, experimenting with the right amount of time awake and/or up out of bed is the right way to go.  :smiley:  Everyone is different, but I have the highest rate of success when I have a little trouble getting back to sleep (but importantly, I always do get back to sleep, unless it is quite late in the morning).  You are on the right track!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Thanks this encourage me  :smiley: 
I'll try again tonight I'll tell you what happened tomorrow  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Well I tried but I went to bed really late and I'm working so I managed to remember one dream but I didn't get lucid I was so tired that my attempt for a WBTB was a total failure ^^
I think I'm gonna go to bed earlier tonight and I'll not set an alarm just try to wake up naturally and if not it'll be good to sleep  :smiley:

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## Habba

> Well I tried but I went to bed really late and I'm working so I managed to remember one dream but I didn't get lucid I was so tired that my attempt for a WBTB was a total failure ^^
> I think I'm gonna go to bed earlier tonight and I'll not set an alarm just try to wake up naturally and if not it'll be good to sleep



Ive learned that doing mutiple WBTBs help a lot with dream recall. Setting and alarm will wake you up during a Dream most times which allows you to recall them better. Waking up nautrally can be a lot harder, we normally wake up after the stage has finished and would be more difficult to recall more than 1 dream.

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## Raziiel

> Ive learned that doing mutiple WBTBs help a lot with dream recall. Setting and alarm will wake you up during a Dream most times which allows you to recall them better. Waking up nautrally can be a lot harder, we normally wake up after the stage has finished and would be more difficult to recall more than 1 dream.



Yeah you're right about that but I feel really tired since I'm working hard these days, I'll do a lot more attempt during week-ends but right now I'm exhausted ^^

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## Habba

> Yeah you're right about that but I feel really tired since I'm working hard these days, I'll do a lot more attempt during week-ends but right now I'm exhausted ^^



That's one of the big disadvantages of WBTB. Although, you don't have to use an alarm to wake you up, you can drink 2-4 glasses of water before you head to sleep and will find yourself waking a few times a night. If your working you could go to bed an hour earlier so you have time for WBTB.

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## Raziiel

> That's one of the big disadvantages of WBTB. Although, you don't have to use an alarm to wake you up, you can drink 2-4 glasses of water before you head to sleep and will find yourself waking a few times a night. If your working you could go to bed an hour earlier so you have time for WBTB.



I'll try that tonight I also read that drinking half of a glass of something before going to bed and setting your intention on finishing it when you wake up was good but even with all this things since I'm working on something important these days I'm always thinking and I can't ADA because of that, I'm also doing way less RCs than usual but I'll give SSILD another try and maybe I should try another induction technique I don't know

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## Pornocrates

Try to take a good look at your surroundings when you RC, visualizing yourself becoming lucid and flying could really help you a great deal too!

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## Raziiel

Yesterday I managed to wake up 2 times during the night and I remembered 3 dreams, one of them was very hazy but the 2 others were pretty clear  :smiley: 
I think I'm going to stuck with SA or ADA I dont really know what I'm doing but I'm trying to be more aware.
And about the SSILD I still don't know if I'm doing it right or not, yesterday I did one or two cycles and my mind starts to wander so I try to focus harder and did some cycles, the same thing happened again my mind was wandering and I focused it, I did this 3 to 4 times and then I felt like my body was floating above my bed it was a really nice feeling and I felt like big vibrations passing through my body and I start seeing a lot of colors and forms moving behind my eyelid and I think I started to think too much, I was like "Oh yeah something is happening I'm going to get an LD" and nothing happened it sorts of fade out and I wasn't able to fall asleep on my back so I decided to turn around and sleep.

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## fogelbise

It sounds like you are doing SSILD right to have gotten that far into the falling asleep process with awareness!  :smiley:  As you seem to suggest, it is best to not think "oh yeah something is happening." It is better to passively observe it as best as you can. When I first read that you had felt like you were floating above your bed I was thinking that you may have already been in the dream, but it became less clear if that was the case from the other descriptions. Some of them sound like HH's (hypnagogic hallucinations) and some of them sound like a dream, possibly even NREM dreaming. Either way, it is typically best to stay patient and passive as a beginner and wait for a full scene to form. For myself, it seems that any vibrations I notice are stronger the closer I am to REM, but that is nothing proven. It is certainly okay to roll over and go to sleep as that will give you a good chance for a DILD with all of that awareness and intention that you built up performing the SSILD cycles, and that is what I typically do. Sometimes SSILD puts me to sleep but seems to leave a little underlying awareness that pops up as soon as vibrations or other similar experiences start, creating what I call a WILD-like entry (but with the loss of awareness, it would technically be a DILD…but who cares as long as you get to a lucid dream). 

Good progress!  :smiley:  Give SSILD a good 30 days I suggest.

This is certainly not a requirement, but only a suggestion: it is common practice here to use the like button (below every post) to show that you like/appreciate/agree with the response. Some people here also use it to give others a notification that they have read their post and have responded, sometimes requesting continued discussion of the subject.

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## Pornocrates

> I wasn't able to fall asleep on my back so I decided to turn around and sleep.



Always do a RC even if you think you're awake, I heard a lot of FAs occur with this technique.

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## fogelbise

> Always do a RC even if you think you're awake, I heard a lot of FAs occur with this technique.



Indeed! I think we talked a little about this on the SSILD thread, but even I forgot that to consider that, when you said you rolled over to go to sleep, you could have been in an FA already! Great reminder Pornocrates!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

> It sounds like you are doing SSILD right to have gotten that far into the falling asleep process with awareness!  As you seem to suggest, it is best to not think "oh yeah something is happening." It is better to passively observe it as best as you can. When I first read that you had felt like you were floating above your bed I was thinking that you may have already been in the dream, but it became less clear if that was the case from the other descriptions. Some of them sound like HH's (hypnagogic hallucinations) and some of them sound like a dream, possibly even NREM dreaming. Either way, it is typically best to stay patient and passive as a beginner and wait for a full scene to form. For myself, it seems that any vibrations I notice are stronger the closer I am to REM, but that is nothing proven. It is certainly okay to roll over and go to sleep as that will give you a good chance for a DILD with all of that awareness and intention that you built up performing the SSILD cycles, and that is what I typically do. Sometimes SSILD puts me to sleep but seems to leave a little underlying awareness that pops up as soon as vibrations or other similar experiences start, creating what I call a WILD-like entry (but with the loss of awareness, it would technically be a DILD…but who cares as long as you get to a lucid dream). 
> 
> Good progress!  Give SSILD a good 30 days I suggest.
> 
> This is certainly not a requirement, but only a suggestion: it is common practice here to use the like button (below every post) to show that you like/appreciate/agree with the response. Some people here also use it to give others a notification that they have read their post and have responded, sometimes requesting continued discussion of the subject.




Yeah I knew that getting exited wasn't good at all but it happened to me and it was already too late  :Sad: 
 I heard that some people are like "jumping" into the HH's but I really dont understand how we're supposed to do that ?
What is a NREM a Natural Dream during REM ?
And sorry about the likes I didn't know it was important I'll do it I promise  :smiley: 

And how can I do multiple quotes I don't find it ^^

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## Raziiel

> Always do a RC even if you think you're awake, I heard a lot of FAs occur with this technique.



I don't remember exactly, I think I did one but maybe it was already too late  :Sad:

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## Habba

> What is a NREM a Natural Dream during REM



Non rapid Eye Movement. Also known as dreamless sleep.

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## Raziiel

> Non rapid Eye Movement. Also known as dreamless sleep.



I just read this thread http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...lta-sleep.html I think I get what it is but thanks  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

> (1)I heard that some people are like "jumping" into the HH's but I really dont understand how we're supposed to do that ?
> (2)What is a NREM a Natural Dream during REM ?
> (3)And sorry about the likes I didn't know it was important I'll do it I promise 
> 
> (4)And how can I do multiple quotes I don't find it ^^



(1) That is an advanced WILD technique. I suggest to try to stay calm and let the scene come to you.
(2) I see you found a great thread on it.
(3) No apology necessary at all!  :smiley: 
(4) It is that button just to the right of "Reply With Quote." You click on that button until you get to the last post you are quoting and just click on the "Reply With Quote" button to combine them all into one reply post.

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## Raziiel

Last night I didn't wake up in the night, I just slept and I dreamed a lot but, about that I have a question, how can I know if I remember several dreams or if it's just the same dream with different places ?
Because I feel like I remember 3 dreams, one very hazy and the 2 others much clearer but maybe during my dream I have just moved from on place to another and I dont remember the whole dream right ?

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## fogelbise

> Last night I didn't wake up in the night, I just slept and I dreamed a lot but, about that I have a question, how can I know if I remember several dreams or if it's just the same dream with different places ?
> Because I feel like I remember 3 dreams, one very hazy and the 2 others much clearer but maybe during my dream I have just moved from on place to another and I dont remember the whole dream right ?



It comes down to your awareness and presence in the dreams, which will come with time and practice. I wouldn't worry about if each dream segment is truly a separate dream or not at this point, just practice recalling as much as you can. When you are truly present in the dream you will wake up feeling like you were just there, just in another dimension and you will remember any transitions in the dream better. This is very common coming out of lucid dreams.

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## Raziiel

Yesterday I went to bed around midnight, I used MILD a little bit and since I was tired I fell asleep really quick. 
I knew that I couldn't get up naturally in the night to do a WBTB SSILD (because I'm tired, I tried the night before but nothing happened) so I set an alarm clock at 4h30. 
When I woke up my alarm was ringing loud and I think that the reason why I wasn't able to remember my dreams, I decided to try the WBTB still so I used the toilet stayed up something like 15 minutes and went back to bed.
I started the cycles and again my mind was wandering a lot maybe the WBTB was too short but I tried to do it and I think I fell asleep while doing it. 
I remember waking up 2 times during the night I think they were the little waking times between sleep cycles (I think I read that somewhere).
And this morning when I woke up I had the impression that I wasn't remembering anything but I focused and stayed lay in bed during 5 minutes and something started to come back and as I started to write down my dreams everything was coming back I wrote my dreams during 20 minutes and like I said yesterday I don't know if it was different dreams or just segments but I remembered 6 "segments" !  :smiley: 
And that's not the only thing that was the first time my dreams were vivid like that, everything seems so real I still have them in my mind, so even if I didn't get lucid I'm really happy about these improvements and I hope I'll get my first LD soon  :smiley:

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## Pornocrates

> And that's not the only thing that was the first time my dreams were vivid like that, everything seems so real I still have them in my mind, so even if I didn't get lucid I'm really happy about these improvements and I hope I'll get my first LD soon



That is actually a really important point, I remember someone on Reddit (Username: DreamHacker I think) saying that you get hours of non lucid dreams for free. As soon as you try to induce LDs you focus a lot more on them and therefore improve you DR and the vividness of your dreams, but many see non lucid dreams as failures and that's a big issue. The perfect attitude towards LDing would be to love each one of your dreams without stressing about LDing because it will come eventually and that way you don't burn out or lose motivation!
Once you start having crazy vivid dreams it's funny anyway!

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## fogelbise

^Great point @Pornocrates! I know FryingMan and I feel strongly about this!  :smiley: 





> Yesterday I went to bed around midnight, I used MILD a little bit and since I was tired I fell asleep really quick. 
> I knew that I couldn't get up naturally in the night to do a WBTB SSILD (because I'm tired, I tried the night before but nothing happened) so I set an alarm clock at 4h30. 
> When I woke up my alarm was ringing loud and I think that the reason why I wasn't able to remember my dreams, I decided to try the WBTB still so I used the toilet stayed up something like 15 minutes and went back to bed.
> (1)I started the cycles and again my mind was wandering a lot maybe the WBTB was too short but I tried to do it and I think I fell asleep while doing it. 
> (2)I remember waking up 2 times during the night I think they were the little waking times between sleep cycles (I think I read that somewhere).
> (3)And this morning when I woke up I had the impression that I wasn't remembering anything but I focused and stayed lay in bed during 5 minutes and something started to come back and as I started to write down my dreams everything was coming back I wrote my dreams during 20 minutes and like I said yesterday I don't know if it was different dreams or just segments but I remembered 6 "segments" ! 
> (4)And that's not the only thing that was the first time my dreams were vivid like that, everything seems so real I still have them in my mind, so even if I didn't get lucid I'm really happy about these improvements and I hope I'll get my first LD soon



(1)No worries. Keep experimenting with the amount of time to stay up that works for you. Some people require less time (Sensei's micro-WBTB, at one point I think he was solving math in his head to wake up the brain, many times not even getting out of bed) and other people require more time (I don't mind staying up longer, reading about lucid dreaming or looking at inspiring images, if I went to bed on time).
(2)Most likely that is what it was. That is good progress!  :smiley: 
(3)Great job accessing the recall of your dreams there, from 0 to 6 segments!!  ::D:   Solidify the technique you used in your mind so you can use it again and again.
(4)Very good results! I bet you will!! Look forward to having your first LD, just try not to worry or stress about getting your first LD.  :smiley: 

Nice job!!

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## Raziiel

> That is actually a really important point, I remember someone on Reddit (Username: DreamHacker I think) saying that you get hours of non lucid dreams for free. As soon as you try to induce LDs you focus a lot more on them and therefore improve you DR and the vividness of your dreams, but many see non lucid dreams as failures and that's a big issue. The perfect attitude towards LDing would be to love each one of your dreams without stressing about LDing because it will come eventually and that way you don't burn out or lose motivation!
> Once you start having crazy vivid dreams it's funny anyway!



Yeah I enjoy so much having vivid dreams like that and even more when I'm doing good stuff in them and I'm not sure but I feel like I had a "spark" of lucidity during maybe 2 seconds everything became crystal clear and I lost this instantly and the dream continued  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

> ^Great point @Pornocrates! I know FryingMan and I feel strongly about this! 
> 
> (1)No worries. Keep experimenting with the amount of time to stay up that works for you. Some people require less time (Sensei's micro-WBTB, at one point I think he was solving math in his head to wake up the brain, many times not even getting out of bed) and other people require more time (I don't mind staying up longer, reading about lucid dreaming or looking at inspiring images, if I went to bed on time).
> (2)Most likely that is what it was. That is good progress! 
> (3)Great job accessing the recall of your dreams there, from 0 to 6 segments!!   Solidify the technique you used in your mind so you can use it again and again.
> (4)Very good results! I bet you will!! Look forward to having your first LD, just try not to worry or stress about getting your first LD. 
> 
> Nice job!!



I think I have trouble finding the right amount of time because I'm doing WBTB during the week end and also during the week while I'm tired but I think I have it for my next attempt  :smiley: 

Yeah I'm gonna stick with what I'm doing, mindfullness I think  :smiley: 

Thanks about your help and your support that's motivating me and I'm not stressing at all just enjoying  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Hey, sorry to post again but that's my Workbook right ^^

I'm with my girlfriend since friday night and I was wondering if you guys can actually do techniques while sleeping with someone else, I tried 3 nights in a row with her but I can't really concentrate to do SSILD for example my mind is wandering a lot more.

Let me know if you have some advice or something I dont know  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

There are some challenges when someone else is in bed with you, but it is definitely achievable. If you two like to "spoon" (or any sleeping with contact or cuddling), then you can always keep a little more space on the bed after WBTB. One thing to watch out for, which I find is common after years of sleeping next to my wife, are FA's in which it seems like she is interacting with me in some way (seems like she is moving too much, squeezing me in an unusual way, or waking me up for sex and then later actually waking and realizing any of the above scenarios were an FA. They were all a dream.) With FA's being very common with SSILD and also quite common with WBTB and DEILD's, that makes it all the more important to keep this in mind so that you can catch some of these FA's that may involve your girlfriend and become lucid.

Good luck  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

> There are some challenges when someone else is in bed with you, but it is definitely achievable. If you two like to "spoon" (or any sleeping with contact or cuddling), then you can always keep a little more space on the bed after WBTB. One thing to watch out for, which I find is common after years of sleeping next to my wife, are FA's in which it seems like she is interacting with me in some way (seems like she is moving too much, squeezing me in an unusual way, or waking me up for sex and then later actually waking and realizing any of the above scenarios were an FA. They were all a dream.) With FA's being very common with SSILD and also quite common with WBTB and DEILD's, that makes it all the more important to keep this in mind so that you can catch some of these FA's that may involve your girlfriend and become lucid.
> 
> Good luck



Thanks for your advice I'll definitely try that  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

You're welcome.  :smiley:  By the way, that possible 2 second spark of lucidity sounds promising!  ::D:

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## Raziiel

> You're welcome.  By the way, that possible 2 second spark of lucidity sounds promising!



Yeah but I'm not really sure it was a weird feeling I can't really explain it ^^

And I tried a WBTB SSILD this morning but I can't fall asleep, I stayed lay in bed for about 1 hour, several times I had a lot of HHs my breathe went like automatic mode and my body was so heavy in the bed but I couldn't fall asleep  :Sad:  

I went to bed at 00h30 and I set my alarm at 7h30 maybe it was too much time sleeping I don't know I'll try to sleep earlier tonight and to set my alarm earlier too  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> That is actually a really important point, I remember someone on Reddit (Username: *DreamHacker* I think) saying that you get hours of non lucid dreams for free. As soon as you try to induce LDs you focus a lot more on them and therefore improve you DR and the vividness of your dreams, but many see non lucid dreams as failures and that's a big issue. The perfect attitude towards LDing would be to love each one of your dreams without stressing about LDing because it will come eventually and that way you don't burn out or lose motivation!
> Once you start having crazy vivid dreams it's funny anyway!



Gee, that reddit Dream_Hacker guy says a lot of pretty brilliant stuff.    I noticed he updated his reddit flair to include "Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall" as well, my kind of guy  :smiley: .

p.s. Raziiel I don't think I gave you a formal welcome, so: Welcome to the DILD class!   It looks like you're doing great.   I'm a huge proponent of building a solid and growing foundation of the fundamentals: mindfulness is a great practice, keep at it.    One suggestion for mindfulness for LDing is to work on mixing in some critical reflection: include the thought that you have a goal to get lucid in dreams, so while you're keeping that internal observer active for mindfulness, add a bit of "is this dream-like?" to your observations, and remember your intent to get lucid in your dreams.

Building strong recall is very important in many ways, including general enjoyment of the night!   I look forward to every night because I know it will be filled with bizarre, funny, weird, exciting, beautiful dream experiences.     From there it's just a matter of developing the intention and focus to foster more and more lucidity.

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## Raziiel

> Gee, that reddit Dream_Hacker guy says a lot of pretty brilliant stuff.    I noticed he updated his reddit flair to include "Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall" as well, my kind of guy .
> 
> p.s. Raziiel I don't think I gave you a formal welcome, so: Welcome to the DILD class!   It looks like you're doing great.   I'm a huge proponent of building a solid and growing foundation of the fundamentals: mindfulness is a great practice, keep at it.    One suggestion for mindfulness for LDing is to work on mixing in some critical reflection: include the thought that you have a goal to get lucid in dreams, so while you're keeping that internal observer active for mindfulness, add a bit of "is this dream-like?" to your observations, and remember your intent to get lucid in your dreams.
> 
> Building strong recall is very important in many ways, including general enjoyment of the night!   I look forward to every night because I know it will be filled with bizarre, funny, weird, exciting, beautiful dream experiences.     From there it's just a matter of developing the intention and focus to foster more and more lucidity.



Thank you  :smiley: 

Yeah I know recall is a really important part to attain lucidity that's why I'm working on it and I feel like my recall is getting better everyday  :smiley: 

But I still don't know if I'm doing something wrong when I'm trying SSILD or if it's just a sleep issue.
Because I've been in the state where you have HHs and vibrations through your body several times and I feel like it leads me nowhere I'm just laying in bed struggling to fall asleep.
Should I think about something when I get to this state or visualize something I don't know ? 
Or maybe it's just that I've slept too much and I can't fall asleep but even when I'm doing it at 4h00 it's difficult to fall asleep ^^

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## FryingMan

I'm very familiar with this "struggling to fall asleep" phenomenon.   One thing I have learned over many, many long sleepless periods in the middle of the night over the last 3 years is that you *can't struggle to sleep*, you can only *relax/fall to sleep*.    You have to let go of physical and mental tension, and and try to keep only the lightest touches of awareness intact.   It is a challenging balance, one that I have not really come near mastering.   I can fall asleep fairly quickly if I dedicate myself to letting go and relaxing, but if I try to maintain intention, it keeps me awake.   So what I do is set intention, then let it go, and believe that the lucidity will happen.   Sometimes I get this feeling, "if I fall asleep now, I WILL be lucid," and more often than not, it comes true!

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## Raziiel

> I'm very familiar with this "struggling to fall asleep" phenomenon.   One thing I have learned over many, many long sleepless periods in the middle of the night over the last 3 years is that you *can't struggle to sleep*, you can only *relax/fall to sleep*.    You have to let go of physical and mental tension, and and try to keep only the lightest touches of awareness intact.   It is a challenging balance, one that I have not really come near mastering.   I can fall asleep fairly quickly if I dedicate myself to letting go and relaxing, but if I try to maintain intention, it keeps me awake.   So what I do is set intention, then let it go, and believe that the lucidity will happen.   Sometimes I get this feeling, "if I fall asleep now, I WILL be lucid," and more often than not, it comes true!



I understand what you're saying and I tried that this morning ^^ 
I was having these vibrations, HHs and since I couldn't fall asleep I just turned around and tried to let it go but it didn't work.
I feel like if I let it go too fast I'm not really setting my intention enough to get a LD, I don't know if you get what I mean.

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## FryingMan

I know what you mean.   You have to decide for yourself what is more important: for me, it's falling asleep again and dreaming more.

This gets easier in time.   Right now it's all new and you're super excited, and that's great.    In time you'll settle more in to a routine and the edge of that sharp intention can relax somewhat, helping you get back to sleep, but maintaining enough to still get lucid.

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## Raziiel

> I know what you mean.   You have to decide for yourself what is more important: for me, it's falling asleep again and dreaming more.
> 
> This gets easier in time.   Right now it's all new and you're super excited, and that's great.    In time you'll settle more in to a routine and the edge of that sharp intention can relax somewhat, helping you get back to sleep, but maintaining enough to still get lucid.



I hadn't seen it this way but it sounds right, I'll try to fall asleep if I feel like setting my intention too much is going to keep me awake thanks for this advice  :smiley: 

And I'm reading a lot about meditation these days I think I'm going to try Mindfulness meditation since I read that it helps a lot for LDs and in life in general let me know if you have experience about that  :smiley:

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## Pornocrates

> Gee, that reddit Dream_Hacker guy says a lot of pretty brilliant stuff.    I noticed he updated his reddit flair to include "Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall" as well, my kind of guy .



I regularly check his profile page on reddit just to read what he recently wrote hehe. I'd advise anyone to do the same since he has such an interesting point of view!

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## FryingMan

> I regularly check his profile page on reddit just to read what he recently wrote hehe. I'd advise anyone to do the same since he has such an interesting point of view!



Why, thank you!  Uh, I mean, I'm sure Dream_Hacker thanks you  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> I hadn't seen it this way but it sounds right, I'll try to fall asleep if I feel like setting my intention too much is going to keep me awake thanks for this advice



Yes, yet another balancing act we LDers must manage: managing wakefulness vs. drowsiness.  In this discipline, sleep is king: no sleep, no dreams, after all.   But added moments of at least slightly increased wakefulness appear almost mandatory for lucidity.  I know it makes a big difference for me!




> And I'm reading a lot about meditation these days I think I'm going to try Mindfulness meditation since I read that it helps a lot for LDs and in life in general let me know if you have experience about that



Mindfulness meditation is great!   I've not yet managed to keep a regular formal "sitting" meditation practice, but I try to maintain attention/self-awareness throughout the day.    The point of the seated meditation is that you set aside everything else and give it your full attention and focus.    The more you do it, the more disciplined your mind becomes, which is very important in the case of LDing.

Probably the most important thing about mindfulness meditation is learning to *live* your life.   To participate.   Don't let it slip by on autopilot.

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## Raziiel

> Yes, yet another balancing act we LDers must manage: managing wakefulness vs. drowsiness.  In this discipline, sleep is king: no sleep, no dreams, after all.   But added moments of at least slightly increased wakefulness appear almost mandatory for lucidity.  I know it makes a big difference for me!
> 
> 
> Mindfulness meditation is great!   I've not yet managed to keep a regular formal "sitting" meditation practice, but I try to maintain attention/self-awareness throughout the day.    The point of the seated meditation is that you set aside everything else and give it your full attention and focus.    The more you do it, the more disciplined your mind becomes, which is very important in the case of LDing.
> 
> Probably the most important thing about mindfulness meditation is learning to *live* your life.   To participate.   Don't let it slip by on autopilot.



Yeah that's why I understand from it and when I think about my life I feel like the autopilot mode is on way too often ! ^^

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## Pornocrates

> Why, thank you!  Uh, I mean, I'm sure Dream_Hacker thanks you



Noooo, your secret identity!  :superman:

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## Pornocrates

> Yeah that's why I understand from it and when I think about my life I feel like the autopilot mode is on way too often ! ^^



If you want to practice it diligently Zazen is a good practice, you can find lots of dojos pretty much in any big city in France (thanks to Master Deshimaru).
It literally means "Sitting Meditation": 座禅 (in japanese). Although it requires a lot of discipline and practice on the stance it sure is a great way to acquire good mental tools: focus, awareness, etc... And the fact that you practice it with others kinda forces you to do it right.

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## Raziiel

> If you want to practice it diligently Zazen is a good practice, you can find lots of dojos pretty much in any big city in France (thanks to Master Deshimaru).
> It literally means "Sitting Meditation": 座禅 (in japanese). Although it requires a lot of discipline and practice on the stance it sure is a great way to acquire good mental tools: focus, awareness, etc... And the fact that you practice it with others kinda forces you to do it right.



I think I'm just gonna do it alone at home everyday and see what I can learn from it but thank you for these informations  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

^^Lot's of good discussion and advice!





> And I tried a WBTB SSILD this morning but I can't fall asleep, I stayed lay in bed for about 1 hour, several times I had a lot of HHs my breathe went like automatic mode and my body was so heavy in the bed but I couldn't fall asleep  
> 
> I went to bed at 00h30 and I set my alarm at 7h30 maybe it was too much time sleeping I don't know I'll try to sleep earlier tonight and to set my alarm earlier too



For myself, I find that 7 hours is a little bit too late to wake and be able to go back to sleep while trying SSILD.  It is generally recommended to try 4.5 to 6 hours after first going to sleep. I believe that 7 hours is not your normal time frame. You might want to try to stay closer to 4.5 hours and you can experiment on the weekends if you want. If you do have a lot of trouble getting to sleep, it is better to get up (*and do an RC! for the habit and for FA's) get up for a bit and go back to bed the old way (with no thoughts or intentions). Before getting to that stage, you can try relaxing in between the cyclesbasically taking your foot off the gas pedal (accélérateur) and coasting, and then returning to the cycles as you get sleepy. I think you had some attempts where you fell asleep too soon, so you know you can get over this hurdle, especially with the right timing and adjusting the cycles off and on.  :smiley:  Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

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## Raziiel

> ^^Lot's of good discussion and advice!
> 
> For myself, I find that 7 hours is a little bit too late to wake and be able to go back to sleep while trying SSILD.  It is generally recommended to try 4.5 to 6 hours after first going to sleep. I believe that 7 hours is not your normal time frame. You might want to try to stay closer to 4.5 hours and you can experiment on the weekends if you want. If you do have a lot of trouble getting to sleep, it is better to get up (*and do an RC! for the habit and for FA's) get up for a bit and go back to bed the old way (with no thoughts or intentions). Before getting to that stage, you can try relaxing in between the cyclesbasically taking your foot off the gas pedal (accélérateur) and coasting, and then returning to the cycles as you get sleepy. I think you had some attempts where you fell asleep too soon, so you know you can get over this hurdle, especially with the right timing and adjusting the cycles off and on.  Let me know if that doesn't make sense.



It makes sense and that's what I was gonna say because I tried again this morning and guess what same thing happened I couldn't fall asleep so I think the 6 hours are not for me I'm gonna set my alarm 5 hours after bedtime to wake up after about 4h30 of sleep I think this'll work better I thought I was too sleepy with 4h30 but I'll just stay up a little longer because 6h is too much.
And if I can't fall asleep again with 4h30 I'll try to take time between cycles and to be sure I'll sleep  :smiley: 
But something is weird because usually I need to sleep a lot more than that but when I try WBTB after 6 hours of sleep I feel like I can wake up so easily maybe it has something to do with the excitement or maybe that's because I'm not working this week and I'm not as tired as last week I don't know

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## FryingMan

Note that alarms have the potential issue of really starting out "wake up for the day" process.   You may want to focus instead of intention and perhaps water wakings.  Intention-only wakings can really work, and give us that mentally vigilant state that lends itself well to lucid dreaming.

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## Raziiel

> Note that alarms have the potential issue of really starting out "wake up for the day" process.   You may want to focus instead of intention and perhaps water wakings.  Intention-only wakings can really work, and give us that mentally vigilant state that lends itself well to lucid dreaming.



I woke up once with the water but I'm not doing it anymore to stay lay in bed and I woke up once with intention too but only once maybe the alarm is the problem I'll give another shot a these techniques  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

You are doing the right thing to experiment with the different techniques to see what works for you.





> I woke up once with the water but I'm not doing it anymore to stay lay in bed...



Do you mean that you stay laying in bed when you did the water technique, never got up? I personally use the water method. I am also not a fan of alarms, but then again, maybe that will be what works for you. Perhaps with the right peaceful, slowly elevating sound, music alarm or similar. They have apps for this if you have a phone that doesn't have a similar alarm built in, or there are bedside alarms that do the same thing, nature sounds, calm music etc that might be worth a try. Either way, you are working your way up to your "sweet spot" (finding the right balance) and this is progress.  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

> You are doing the right thing to experiment with the different techniques to see what works for you.
> 
> Do you mean that you stay laying in bed when you did the water technique, never got up? I personally use the water method. I am also not a fan of alarms, but then again, maybe that will be what works for you. Perhaps with the right peaceful, slowly elevating sound, music alarm or similar. They have apps for this if you have a phone that doesn't have a similar alarm built in, or there are bedside alarms that do the same thing, nature sounds, calm music etc that might be worth a try. Either way, you are working your way up to your "sweet spot" (finding the right balance) and this is progress.



No I woke up once but then I had to use the toilets and I thought that staying lay in bed was better so I started to use the alarm.
And yeah I'd love to find this "sweet spot" but that's pretty difficult for me ^^

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## fogelbise

> No I woke up once but then I had to use the toilets and I thought that staying lay in bed was better so I started to use the alarm.
> And yeah I'd love to find this "sweet spot" but that's pretty difficult for me ^^



The most common recommendation is to get up out of bed, especially if you are reading or something, and if you are not laying there in order to do MILD or SSILD, as examples. I know Sensei will often stay in bed and uses a mini-WBTB technique, but most people need to get up to really bring up their waking life awareness, in order to then bring it into the dream state and become lucid.

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## Raziiel

> The most common recommendation is to get up out of bed, especially if you are reading or something, and if you are not laying there in order to do MILD or SSILD, as examples. I know Sensei will often stay in bed and uses a mini-WBTB technique, but most people need to get up to really bring up their waking life awareness, in order to then bring it into the dream state and become lucid.



Since my last attempts were in the morning after 7 hours of sleep, I was trying to fall asleep again and it was hard even while staying lay in bed but when I'm trying it after 5 hours I can go to the toilet and fall asleep again I think

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## Raziiel

Since I'm working a lot on something stressful these days my recall is pretty bad and I don't have a lot of time to do RCs and to be mindful during the day.
I woke up with the water technique and tried a WBTB and SSILD but I can't focus either ... 
I hope everything will comeback soon I'll try to post here everyday  :smiley:

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## Habba

> Since I'm working a lot on something stressful these days my recall is pretty bad and I don't have a lot of time to do RCs and to be mindful during the day.
> I woke up with the water technique and tried a WBTB and SSILD but I can't focus either ... 
> I hope everything will comeback soon I'll try to post here everyday



You shouldn't be focusing  while attempting to SSILD. Stop worrying, relax, flex about, do what you have to do, just don't focus. Focusing too much on the cycles will keep you awake, don't put any effort in the cycles.

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## Raziiel

> You shouldn't be focusing  while attempting to SSILD. Stop worrying, relax, flex about, do what you have to do, just don't focus. Focusing too much on the cycles will keep you awake, don't put any effort in the cycles.



When I say that I can't focus I mean that I can't do a full cycle my mind is wandering a lot !

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## Habba

> When I say that I can't focus I mean that I can't do a full cycle my mind is wandering a lot !



Then your doing SSILD right, that's when you know your doing it right!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

> Then your doing SSILD right, that's when you know your doing it right!



Are you sure ?
I thought I was supposed to do several cycles because when I'm doing this I feel like I'm just falling asleep normally

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## Habba

> Are you sure ?
> I thought I was supposed to do several cycles because when I'm doing this I feel like I'm just falling asleep normally



You are, but when your mind starts wandering you know your in the trance like state which is required for SSILD. 

For example, last night I done for quick cycles then as soon as I got onto longer one my mind started wandering and I literally kept repeating sight for a bit until I fell asleep.

For me, I find that falling asleep while doing the cycles is good because it's the first thing that's on your mind.

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## Raziiel

> You are, but when your mind starts wandering you know your in the trance like state which is required for SSILD. 
> 
> For example, last night I done for quick cycles then as soon as I got onto longer one my mind started wandering and I literally kept repeating sight for a bit until I fell asleep.
> 
> For me, I find that falling asleep while doing the cycles is good because it's the first thing that's on your mind.



Yes you're right and I already got to the trance like state but last night that wasn't anything like that I was just enable to concentrate and to do a cycle properly I'll try again tonight  :smiley:

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## Habba

> Yes you're right and I already got to the trance like state but last night that wasn't anything like that I was just enable to concentrate and to do a cycle properly I'll try again tonight



Good luck!

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## fogelbise

You can also "practice" during the day when you are wide awake so that it is more automatic, but it sounds like your busy life could be the bigger reason you were having a challenge that night. Any time that you have any concerns over what you need to do in the morning and/or the day or week(s) ahead, try to write them down, record them in some way, or mentally check them off so that you know that you won't forget to address those concerns and can relax and have less distractions. And of course meditation or a simple release technique I can point you towards also helps tremendously when life is busy and stressful. Good luck!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

> You can also "practice" during the day when you are wide awake so that it is more automatic, but it sounds like your busy life could be the bigger reason you were having a challenge that night. Any time that you have any concerns over what you need to do in the morning and/or the day or week(s) ahead, try to write them down, record them in some way, or mentally check them off so that you know that you won't forget to address those concerns and can relax and have less distractions. And of course meditation or a simple release technique I can point you towards also helps tremendously when life is busy and stressful. Good luck!



What do you mean by practicing during the day ?
And I'm also conviced that I can't concentrate because of my life being busy these time but it's not an excuse and I'll try something like you said to forget about it during the night  :smiley: 
By the way I had 4 dreams this night and during the last one after WBTB and SSILD I had a FA and like all the other times, I didn't do any RCs. But something weird happened at the end, my dream was not a good dream because I was going to have sex with a girl who's not my girlfriend in my room and at the end of the dream I knew that the door was going to open and I knew that I was going to wake up and I had a strange feeling at this moment in the dream and the door eventually opened and I woke up.
Have you ever had moment like this the feeling was kind of a lucidity feeling or a conscious feeling I don't know how to explain that ?

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## Pornocrates

> I had a FA and like all the other times, I didn't do any RCs.



Hey Razziel, what's up?  :smiley: 

Do you intend things for LDing purposes? Do you use a mantra?

If you have these FAs regularly, esp with SSILD it might be great to intend to RC whenever you wake or whenever you feel like you wake up.

For example, choose something like "Whenever I wake up, I will plug my nose and take a deep breathe", use the present tense it's really important, there's two things your brain doesn't get when you use sentences like that: a tense other than the present and the negation (never use negative sentences)!

1: Repeat the mantra over and over, make it rhyme or sing it, or do a rhythm. Be really excited about it (Jubile!).

2: Visualize the situation where you wake up in the middle of the night and you do a RC! 

3: Repeat 1 and 2 until your intention is set or for a few minutes!

Also, conscious breathing and stretching are good things to relax you and get the stress off your system. It's really important if you want to LD!  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

^^Good advice Pornocrates!  :smiley: 





> What do you mean by practicing during the day ?



You can sit quietly or lay down at a point when you are relaxed and done with your busy day but while you are still wide awake and alert and can practice performing the SSILD cycles to learn the progression so that when you do it at night it is more automatic, like the way we walk or breathe without really thinking about it.





> And I'm also conviced that I can't concentrate because of my life being busy these time but it's not an excuse and I'll try something like you said to forget about it during the night



Sure, try to look at the fact that if you have to be somewhere else in order to do the task the next day then you can't do anything from home at night, so working on releasing those daytime thoughts or worries at night is the best course of action.





> By the way I had 4 dreams this night and during the last one after WBTB and SSILD I had a FA and like all the other times, I didn't do any RCs. But something weird happened at the end, my dream was not a good dream because I was going to have sex with a girl who's not my girlfriend in my room and at the end of the dream I knew that the door was going to open and I knew that I was going to wake up and I had a strange feeling at this moment in the dream and the door eventually opened and I woke up.
> Have you ever had moment like this the feeling was kind of a lucidity feeling or a conscious feeling I don't know how to explain that ?



I don't think I have had a situation quite like that but sometimes I catch the signs of a dream ending and that makes me lucid. That definitely sounds like you might have been semi-lucid and just needed a little nudge to become fully lucid before the dream ended.

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## Raziiel

Thank you for your advice guys  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

^Your welcome Raziel! I remember reading that you were busy recently and that is understandable. I wanted to encourage you however to keep up some lucid dreaming practices. You can also read about lucid dreaming, listen to lucid dreaming audio, podcasts, watch youtube videos about lucid dreaming or something to keep you advancing, even if at a slow pace. This is not a race of course. It is more like a fun and wonderful journey, or at least it can be. I've just seen so many people drop off and then start all over months or *years* later. I personally did that and I regret it. I had lucid dreams as a child and I wish I had continued to pay attention to my dreams but instead didn't return to paying attention to dreams, much less lucid dreaming, until decades later. I am so happy that I did eventually though! Let me know if you want me to point you to any resources for the various lucid material sources I mentioned and of course we are always here for questions and this workbook is yours to keep track of progress, thoughts, experiments, etc.

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## Pornocrates

> ^Your welcome Raziel! I remember reading that you were busy recently and that is understandable. I wanted to encourage you however to keep up some lucid dreaming practices. You can also read about lucid dreaming, listen to lucid dreaming audio, podcasts, watch youtube videos about lucid dreaming or something to keep you advancing, even if at a slow pace. This is not a race of course. It is more like a fun and wonderful journey, or at least it can be. I've just seen so many people drop off and then start all over months or *years* later. I personally did that and I regret it. I had lucid dreams as a child and I wish I had continued to pay attention to my dreams but instead didn't return to paying attention to dreams, much less lucid dreaming, until decades later. I am so happy that I did eventually though! Let me know if you want me to point you to any resources for the various lucid material sources I mentioned and of course we are always here for questions and this workbook is yours to keep track of progress, thoughts, experiments, etc.



Great advice fogelbise!

Don't burn out, if you feel overwhelmed then try to limit your practice. Keeping on might result in you associating LDing with stress, and you don't want that to happen, trust me!  :Cheeky:  

Cut off the induction technique until you get things sorted out. Focus on DR, RCing and awareness.
During those periods of time, autosuggestion is a good approach, slower sure but really laid-back!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Hi everyone it's been a while since I came here and I'm happy to be back  :smiley: 

Like I said just before leaving my thread, I was in a pretty difficult period with my studies and other things, but now I'm in holidays so I'm planning on getting my first LD  :smiley: 

The only "trouble" that I can have is not remembering anything because since I'm in holidays I'm partying like a LOT ^^

But I'll try to post here regularly to keep you updated  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

School breaks are a great time to put a lot of emphasis on dreaming.   Yeah, you sort of have to decide whether to stay up and party or get those extra hours of sleep!

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## Pornocrates

Yay Raziiel is back!

I'm sure you're going to have your first LD soon with a bit of work and if you sleep a lot!

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## fogelbise

Hi Raziel! I somehow missed your last post but I wanted to see how you were doing and check if you had any questions. Hopefully you aren't partying too many brain cells away and you find time to keep some semblance of lucid dreaming practice going. By the way, if you can think to do RC's when you start to feel the different effects of partying, maybe that will turn into a good RC for you.

I can't remember if I gave you my young person spiel, but here it is:





> I recommend that you consider that learning lucid dreaming is most like a journey of learning and measured progress, a journey where your eyes will gradually open up to a world of possibilities! As you have surely already experienced, it is nothing like learning to ride a bike, as an example. It would only be like learning to ride a bike if you had to learn much about the different parts of the bike and how they work and how to adjust and maintain them to get the maximum speed or efficiency before you ever start truly riding. It would also involve much more falling off of the bike and getting back on. The things you learn during the journey can help you in so many ways in addition to learning to lucid dream regularly. 
> 
> I would love to see you overcome the trend of our younger members taking breaks of years at a time before coming back to lucid dreaming (taking a breather for a few days or finding balance is always okay!). In order to do that you will want to find a way to make it fit in with schooling, studying and life in general and make it as fun and as fresh as you can.

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## Raziiel

Hi fogelbise and thank you for your advice, I really like this way of thinking about LDs  :smiley: 
Since I came back to get my first LD I only manage to remember fragments of dreams, I feel like my recall is dead compared to what it was when I first came here I'm working on getting it back, I'm trying to stay aware during the day and to medidate 10 minutes everyday I hope it'll work  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Your welcome Raziiel  :smiley:  Perhaps try to think, as you are going to bed, something like "it's time for some interesting dreams." Then as you lay down and get comfortable remind yourself briefly that you want to lay still whenever you wake up and spend some time recalling your dreams. If you want more tips, check out FryingMan's dream recall link in his signature (a few posts above).

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## Raziiel

Hi guys !
I'm here because eventually my dream recall is coming back  :smiley: 
I remembered 4 dreams yesterday and 2 this morning so I'm gonna try to make them more vivid and longer but I'm back on the lucidness road  :smiley: 
I tried a SSILD this morning but it seems like my night was over I couldn't fall asleep.
I'll keep you guys updated if something else happen  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Great job on the recall! Regarding SSILD: if you felt like your night was over, try the WBTB a little earlier so it is easier to get back to sleep.  My sweet spot is around 4.5 hours. You can also relax between the sets of cycles if you feel yourself waking up too much.

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## Raziiel

Thanks for your advice but I know that I need to wake up earlier I wasn't going for a WBTB at first I tried because I felt a little tired but not enough I guess  :smiley: 
And about the recall I remembered 7 dreams Monday 1 yesterday and 2 today but I drank and I smoked the 2 last nights so my recall is really improving because that's the first time I manage to remember my dreams after smoking and drinking and 7 dreams is a lot for me !  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

7 dreams in one night is excellent! At least you know that you have it in you! I also have "1 dream" nights occasionally and even sometimes only a hint of a dream. "2 dream" nights are somewhat common, though I usually do better than that. You can become lucid with those numbers, it's just a matter of time, and WBTB will give you your best chances of becoming lucid, especially paired with SSILD or MILD.

Yes, I thought I should mention WBTB timing just in case you didn't know. I do the same thing sometimes, trying a late WBTB. It is certainly something worth experimenting with just as long as you don't get frustrated. For most people this would have a lower payout and thus could be frustrating. BUT, everyone is different. If you can still get some substantial REM/dreams going in the late morning and you can find a better way to get back to sleep, it could very well pay off more consistently. Some people also get up for a few hours and take a nap later in the morning and find lots of success.

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## Raziiel

I'm here again !

I lost my motivation one more time but today I was thinking about LDs so I started to read my DJ and it makes me wanna remember my dreams because it felt so good and this time I'm not doing this only to get a LD but to enjoy and to learn from my dreams  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Good idea!   My non-lucid dream recall is what keeps me going in between LDs, I think a goal of getting close to your dreams and recalling them well, while working towards lucidity as much as you can, is a great way to go!

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## fogelbise

^Agreed, so many cherished experiences can come from non-lucid dreams as well! Welcome back Raziel!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Thank you guys  :smiley: 

I wanted to share something with you, since I came back here I also decided to meditate everyday before going to sleep and yesterday it was amazing.

I went to bed, lay down and started to concentrate on my breath, it calmed down and it began to feel like a sleeping breath, then my body felt heavier and heavier and I started to see a lot of colors and flashes behind my eyelids at this moment I thought "Oh maybe it's a WILD beginning ! " I tried to vizualise me flying over the sea and I got some images but I felt like my body was disconnected from my mind it was really weird so I moved and everything stoped this experience was so intense that I was breathless after it but the feeling was great  :smiley: 

I'd be happy if you guys can share some similar experiences or give me advice or stuff like that  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

That does sound like an interesting experience. It could have been hypnagogic hallucinations or you might have actually maintained awareness into nREM sleep where you might have been in a light-sleep portion of your sleep cycles before you drop into deep sleepthough I am no expert on the exact progression through the nREM stages. Sometimes this can bring greater awareness throughout the night and give you a chance for a DILD, but a WILD would have been rare if this was when you first went to bed. We recommend WILD attempts after at least 4.5 hours of sleep, which is after approximately 3 sleep cycles for the average person (some variations between people). I found mine are very close to every 90 minutes normally, sometimes closer to 100 minutes which may be due to REM rebound. The water method seems to wake me up at the end of REM, so I always recommend trying the water method before going with alarms.

I'm not a WILD expert but I get lucky sometimesmostly I get DILD's. I highly recommend this: http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13181...prep-part.html and all of Sageous' WILD lessons for the WILD side of the practice. Do keep posting here thoughI am not sending you away, haha!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Ok thanks for your feedback and actually what you said remind me a thread I read a long time ago about nREM sleep I should look at it again because I think you might be right.
Maybe I'll do the water method to get to this state in the middle of the night it has worked once so I guess I can do it again  :smiley:

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## Pornocrates

Hey Raziiel, content de te savoir de retour! Je viens aussi de redevenir actif sur DV héhé.


I think you're developping a great attitude towards LDs by liking you non lucid ones! If you work on dream recall with this approach, they're going to get more and more vivid to the point where you'll attain lucidity.

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## Raziiel

Content de savoir que tu es de retour aussi  :smiley: 

I wish I'll eventually attain lucidity but it's not my major goal anymore  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

I got my first LD last night !
I was at the beach with my friend we surfed during all the afternoon, for me surfing is a way of escaping the world I can leave my thoughts and my problems on the beach and be in the moment, we had a drink and ate on the beach after our session and we started talking about lucid dreaming I explained to them what it was and what I was doing like meditation, paying attention to the present and all this thing.
During my dream I was going to hop in a car and I realized I was dreaming I didn't do anything special, I just knew, the dream became blurry because i was excited so I calmed down and decided to follow the story of the dream, the DC in the car started to drive and I tried to talk to him but he didn't answer that was weird so I let the dream continue and we eventually got out of the car and I followed him but I felt my lucidity going down so I thought i needed to change the dream scene and I tried that but nothing happened and I lost my lucidity.
Even if I didn't do anything crazy I'm really happy about that and I hope I'll do some other LDs but my routine will still the same I'm meditating every day and trying to be in the moment as much as possible  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Excellent, congratulations!     That's the way it happens a lot of the time, you just know it.   Keep up your practice and you'll get more and more!

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## fogelbise

Congratulations Raziiel!! I am excited to hear that you had your first lucid dream!!  ::D:  

You should change your LD count from "none" to whatever seems best to you…Like "1" or "First of Many" or whatever.  :smiley:

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## Saizaphod

Congratz on your first lucid dream Raziiel!  :smiley:   ::goodjob2::

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## Raziiel

Thank you guys I'm very happy and I hope this is the first of many as fogelbise said  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

> Thank you guys I'm very happy and I hope this is the first of many as fogelbise said



It absolutely can be…and it will be if you stick to it!  ::D:

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## Raziiel

Well nothing crazy is happening right now, I'm focusing on my recall, meditation and mindfulness and I'm trying to be as involved as possible  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

Those are very god things to focus on!   Pretty much covers the bases.   Also don't forget to think about lucid dreaming itself from time to time, and remind yourself how great it would be to have a lucid dream tonight or very soon!

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## Raziiel

I have kind of a little problem, I tried SSILD a couple nights and I cant get in the trance state I was talking about months ago in my workbook anymore  :Sad: 

When I focus on my eyelids, I don't see a lot of things compared to before and the SSILD seems not to do anything except making me feel my body heavier but that's all.

Do you have some clue or advice guys, maybe it's because I'm not tired enough or things like that but I don't know.

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## FryingMan

I find that generally "trying hard to see things" delays the slipping into the deeper states.  One way I describe is is that it's a sensation of "holding on".   Thinking too much or "trying to make things happen" seems to usually be a hindrance to things actually happening  :smiley: .     You want your mind to really settle down and quiet the inner voice/chatter.    Practicing attention meditation (attention on the breath for example) is a good way to get a feeling for this.

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## Raziiel

I'll try this tonight thank you for you advice  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

I just saw your SSILD question, so let me know if you are still getting stuck.  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

I didn't succeed at SSILD but I had a lot of HHs during my meditation these days  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

What do you feel went wrong (if anything) with your SSILD attempt? If you get through the cycles and go to sleep, one of these occasions you will have a DILD in the middle of a dream or maybe even find your awareness pop back up on your way to REM giving you a WILD-style entry into a dream. Don't wait for this or look for it at least until you are very experienced…instead just complete the cycles and doze off. It took me several SSILD attempts before I started having success and it eventually became very consistently successful.

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## Raziiel

Hi !  :smiley: 

I went to the cinema to watch Doctor Strange and this movie is just crazy !!

I loved it and it has a lot of LD related idea, if you want to see it don't hesitate just go you'll like it  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Oh yes, the trailers for Doctor Strange really got me interested in all of the LD inspirations there must be in the movie! I didn't know anything about the comic but I am eager to see this!

I hope all is well!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

My LD practice right now still pretty much the same, I'm trying to do a meditation session everyday, I'm trying to be as mindful as possible during the day, I'm reading things about LD and at night when I go to sleep I relax myself (almost a little meditation session), then I do the SSILD cycles and in the morning I write down or record my dreams in my head  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

That sounds like a good set of practices.  :smiley:  Are you also doing RC's? For SSILD are you doing it during a WBTB?

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## Raziiel

I'm not doing any RC just wondering if I'm dreaming or not during the day and I'm not doing WBTB frequently I'll try one tonight  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

That wondering (reflection) is good.   It is also good to couple that wondering with a RC, because in a dream that little spark of lucidity can grow to a full LD with the confirmation from a RC.

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## Raziiel

Ok, I'll try again but I don't really like doing RCs ^^

And I did a WBTB yesterday, I can only remember a long and vivid dream but nothing else, I'll do another one tonight  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

You should try thinking that "I love doing RCs, I love looking out for the dream state!"   If you think "I don't like doing them" then you probably won't in a dream!

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## Raziiel

I wanted to share something that happened to me Friday, I was tired so I went to sleep at 23:00, I started meditating laying in bed, it lasted about 20 minutes I think, then I did a SSILD for about 10 or 15 minutes. 

When I went to bed I was tired and I thought I was going to fall asleep pretty quick but after my meditation and SSILD, I was conscious but like super conscious, I was "connected" to my breathe even if I didn't wanna pay attention to it I still felt it and I was also feeling my heartbeats, I was super aware, I was in the present but that state kept me awake, I wasn't able to sleep so I decided to read but for a long time even while I was reading I was still connected to my breath (weird feeling) and I eventually fall asleep at 03:00.

Did this already happen to some of you guys ?

And how can I get over it if it happens again ?

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## fogelbise

I would try splitting up the two things…doing the meditation before bed and doing SSILD (by itself) later during WBTB (whenever you can do a WBTB; whenever you have time to sleep in). I haven't experienced it quite like that though, but my thought is that it had something to do with the type of mediation you did being combined with SSILD. SSILD is intended to be used in the middle of the night, not when first going to sleep, but I try to not discourage experimentation like that. Very interesting!

I finally saw Doctor Strange…a lot of good LD material there and they even covered astral projection! Enjoyed it!

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## Raziiel

You're probably right, I was focus during 30 or 40 minutes maybe that's too much to sleep.

I told you this is a great LD movie  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Do you mean 30 to 40 minutes of SSILD? If so, I agree with you that that is too much.

I didn't watch the movie in 3D but I am thinking about seeing it a 2nd time in 3D. There were many awesome scenes!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Meditation + SSILD 

I don't really like 3D movies, there're less brightness less colors and it's blurry on the sides ^^

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## Raziiel

I got lucid during 5 seconds but I succeeded  :smiley: 

I'm gonna spare you the beginning of my dream but it was a weird one, all you need to know is that at some point, I woke up in my bedroom and still have the weird feeling I had the day before in the dream (due to something I ate or drank) and so I went to the bathroom and look at my face, my eyes were so weird you should have seen that and while I was looking at me I started loosing my teeth and I though "WTF is happening I shouldn't have done all of this, this shit is real !" and at this exact moment I thought "No it's not real you're dreaming" and I looked again in the mirror and thought about something I can't remember and 1 second after I opened my eyes I did a RC to be sure that it wasn't a FA and then I dont remember any other dreams of the night.

Tonight I'll get lucid again and improve my dream stabilization, I need to remember to stay calm, rub my hands and scream "LUCIDITY" ^^

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## fogelbise

I love looking in mirrors in dreams; that sounded interesting with the weird eyes. Congratulations!  ::D:  Yes, stabilization will come with time and practice but you could very well have a very stable LD on your next one! If you want to, you can update your LD count.

Keep up the great work!

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## Raziiel

I'm not sure about the LD count that was only 5 second and a while ago I got lucid for 2 or 3 second and for me that doesn't count as a LD I'm gonna have a long one for sure !  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Yes! If you keep it up, I know that you will!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Hi, yesterday I tried guided meditation on Youtube, I was usually doing meditation on my own or with an app called "Headspace" (at the beginning but then you need to pay) and I loved it, I did it with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyy0ra2WcQQ  :smiley: 

At the end of the session I was feeling so good, I was kind of disconnected from my body, I was in a deeper state than with my usual session  :smiley: 

I also wanna try meditation with binaural beats or isochronic tones because I read a lot of good things about that, do you have any ideas or any good link I could use to do that ?  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

I think I only tried binaural or isochronic once, so I really don't have the experience to suggest anything there. That sounds like a good result from you youtube guided meditation. When you are in that deep state it should be a great time to give your mind suggestions like "The next time I'm dreaming, I realize I'm dreaming" or anything you like.

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## Raziiel

> When you are in that deep state it should be a great time to give your mind suggestions like "The next time I'm dreaming, I realize I'm dreaming" or anything you like.



Sound like a good idea I'll give it a try because usually when I get to this point I'm just being, not doing anything and not thinking at all  :smiley:

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## Pornocrates

Do the same thing next time you have a LD !  ::D:

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## Raziiel

Hi there, Happy New Year !  :smiley: 
I wanted to say thank you to all the people that have helped me during this year, I've discovered LD almost a year ago and I'm really happy to be part of this community even if I only had 1 little LD and 2 sparks of lucidity ^^
Lucid dreaming made me discover a lot of things about the brain, the sleep schedule, the dreams, the meditation and a lot of other things.
It has change my way of perceiving life and I'm really happy about it, I feel better than ever and I hope this journey will continue  :smiley: 
Thank you again  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

Exactly! Through this practice we learn and grow in wonderful ways. 

I hope to see you keep at it.

Happy New Year to you as well!   :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Hey, it's been a while again !

I wanted to keep you up to date, I didn't give up the practice, my perception just changed a lot thanks to meditation and I'm now into astral projection (here is my thread about it if you're interested http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...rojection.html).

I wanted to know, what do you think about astral projection and out-of-body-experience ?

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## FryingMan

My personal take is that they are all lucid dreams where you begin in your room.   That said, I  respect the approaches used to achieve them, and I intend to study them and add them to by "WILD" toolkit.

Thanks for the link!

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## Raziiel

> My personal take is that they are all lucid dreams where you begin in your room.   That said, I  respect the approaches used to achieve them, and I intend to study them and add them to by "WILD" toolkit.



I was thinking the exact same as you before but I changed my mind  :smiley: 

Anyway I agree with you, it doesn't matter how we call it or how we perceive it, the only important thing is to enjoy doing it  :smiley:

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## FryingMan

> I was thinking the exact same as you before but I changed my mind 
> 
> Anyway I agree with you, it doesn't matter how we call it or how we perceive it, the only important thing is to enjoy doing it



I would love to hear more about your experiences.  Do you have any "AP" journal entries I could read or could share here?    If you believe AP is not LDing, does that mean that things like "dream control" do not function in your APs, but work fine still in your LDs?

Do your APs happen at any time of the day, or only if you're tired/napping?

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## Raziiel

> I would love to hear more about your experiences.  Do you have any "AP" journal entries I could read or could share here?    If you believe AP is not LDing, does that mean that things like "dream control" do not function in your APs, but work fine still in your LDs?
> 
> Do your APs happen at any time of the day, or only if you're tired/napping?



Actually, I didn't experienced any AP yet, I'm still working on the trance state with a lot of meditation mantras and I'm also working on recall.

But in my opinion, during a AP you can use some kind of dream controls like flying going through walls and things like that but you can't really act on your environment like making all the buildings disappear.

And I think that with enough practice you can do AP whenever you want, it's like meditating, you need to go into a trance state and use exit techniques.

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## Pornocrates

Hey Raziiel,

It's great to hear (read ?) from you ! 

I'll take a look at the book, thanks for the recommendation. I don't really know where I stand about AP, but I know that we live in a great universe we hardly understand so I'm keeping an open-minded attitude towards it. I'm also glad to see you're still on the meditation path  ::D:

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## Raziiel

> Hey Raziiel,
> 
> It's great to hear (read ?) from you ! 
> 
> I'll take a look at the book, thanks for the recommendation. I don't really know where I stand about AP, but I know that we live in a great universe we hardly understand so I'm keeping an open-minded attitude towards it. I'm also glad to see you're still on the meditation path



That's exactly what I thought, we don't know a lot of things about the humain brain without talking about the universe and maybe everything we've learned about our planet and the way things works are restraining us in a way.

We all know thanks to LDing that what we expect influences a lot what we experience that's why as you said we need to stay open-minded to avoid losing possibilities and I think that through meditation and AP for instance, we can get a new way of experiencing the world around us.

One of my key argument is to say that the world as we perceived it is only a combination of electric signals sent by your senses to your brain, so when you're doing a AP or a LD, you're stimulating your brain without using your senses but you're still stimulating your brain the same way we do in every day life.

That being said, I know that a lot of people are gonna think I'm crazy and maybe I am but I'm on a new path now and I'm enjoying myself  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

It's great to see you around Raziel (and Pornocrates too)! I leave some room in my beliefs for the possibility of AP. At the very least, the meditation and experiences you achieve will be a benefit I am sure!  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

> It's great to see you around Raziel (and Pornocrates too)! I leave some room in my beliefs for the possibility of AP. At the very least, the meditation and experiences you achieve will be a benefit I am sure!



Great to see you too  :smiley: 

And of course, meditation is proven to be good for the mind and the body at the very least  :smiley:

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## Raziiel

Hi there !

I'm back here again reading some LD stuff, it's been a while, I completely stopped LD AP and meditation practice for several months and I don't really like that but it's because of a lack of motivation and a lot happened in my life but I'm in holiday for a week so I'll try to get back to it !  :smiley:

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## fogelbise

> Hi there !
> 
> I'm back here again reading some LD stuff, it's been a while, I completely stopped LD AP and meditation practice for several months and I don't really like that but it's because of a lack of motivation and a lot happened in my life but I'm in holiday for a week so I'll try to get back to it !



Hi Raziel, let me know how I can help. You might find this study of interest...check out this thread: 

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2220607

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