# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  Is it possibly to WILD when you normally go to sleep?

## Zalak123

So, people have been telling me it's near impossible to have a WILD when you normally go to sleep. My question is: Is it possible?

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## Indeed

It is possible, and the level of difficulty varies from person to person. However, there is a general consensus that it is usually more difficult..

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## Puffin

It's possible, but considerably difficult because you're not as relaxed as you'd be during a mid-day nap or WBTB. The resulting dream, since you're not in REM, will likely also be very short and unstable. It's not really worth it, taking into account how much longer it would probably take to reach SP - if you can even get it at all during this time; I've only gotten it once when falling asleep initially, but it was accidental and I was very, very tired.

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## Zalak123

It would take longer to teach SP? Even if you got really good at it?

So really it's not when you initially go to sleep?

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## Puffin

Precisely.  :smiley:  If you're very good at relaxing and tricking your body into reaching SP faster, you could reach it in less time, but it's still not really worth it - if it's your first WILD, it would be a shame for the dream to be a poor one in terms of stability.

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## Zalak123

I dunno, i'm feeling like I wanna try it. Wouldn't it be great to be able to WILD every night without having to use an alarm?

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## Puffin

It sure would be great. It doesn't hurt to try, though, so why not go for it anyways?  :smiley:

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## Zalak123

I think I will.

I need to get on this forum more, I rarely post. It might help with my lucids.

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## Nhuc

Over the last few weeks I have been unable to sleep at night unless I wild to the point of hallucinations, at which point I have the option to have a half-assed ld that lasts a few moments and I wake up hours later, or cut of any sense of cognition, therefore when i enter a normal dream I immediatly realize I'm dreaming and have the option to choose how lucid I become. I've had some crazy dreams lately when I choose not to lucid and just enjoy it half-consciously seeing where it will take me, like one where I was a ninja, and threw a star at donald trump, he dodged it... therefore he deserved to live.

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## ShadowOfSelf

I wouldn't bother, get them first few deep sleep cycles, then wild, you'd have a much greater chance in succeeding.

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## Spyguy

It's not bad to try, but I suggest practicing WILD after sleep first. It's often tough enough to learn that. Once you have that down, I do think it's worth trying pre-sleep WILD. But then again, if you start bodybuilding, you need to start with lower weights, don't tackle the 100 kg right away  :wink2:

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## Zalak123

I'm gonna try it.

And I won't try to use an alarm or anything unless I can't do it in 6 months.

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## Sivason

It is 100% true from my experience that getting at least 4 hours sleep first helps you WILD. However, all you have to do to increase the clarity of a WILD that is pre REM is don't over stimulate your self by trying to do much in the dream state at first. When you get into SP start picturing something very basic like that you are looking at your right hand, or running your fingers through someones hair. The first images will be vauge. Just nurse it along until you can really experience the choosen thing at about 30% of real life. Then start to look around. If you are able to see some dream images then you are ready to stablize. Spend a little extra time doing this, when you are done stablizing things should be about 50% real. Now start interacting, you are giving your self time to get into REM. I can usually get into some amazing LDs with good clarity if I don't rush it.

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## Sivason

After reading this post yesterday, I decided to do an experiment and post the results here for you. I tried 3 WILDs. 1 at bedtime, 1 at 4 hours of sleep, and 1 at 8 hours sleep. No one is saying someone could not WILD when first going to bed. I explained above one way it can be done, but look at the huge differance between the 3 WILD attempts. The quality is shockingly different. Here are the journal  entries for last night.

 As an experiment for another thread (this one) I tried 3 wilds through the night to see how much difference various amounts of sleep would make. *The first attempt was right when I started the nights sleep*. I got to see some colors, but failed to WILD.

    LD15 *The second attempt was at 4 hours sleep*. I started picturing my right hand. I would count to five on the fingers putting one up at a time. Evenentually I slipped into a LD. Everything was black except the part of my body I looked at. I went through an elabrate stabilizing routine for about 2 minutes. When I looked around I was in a small room holding a flask of clear liquid. The resolution was poor and the images were dark. The beaker may contain alcohol? Maybe I will taste it. It falls and I rush to clean it up for a second. Then I think, 'this is a dream, don't bother cleaning.' When I look up the small room is crowded with people. Resolution has improved. The people start to jossle around and push, kind of mosh like. I float up above them and yell 'stop'.
 I have a false awakening. I am at my Dad's when I was working for him years ago. He want's me to get up and work. I tell him I am trying to LD and he needs to leave me alone, his wife joins in bad mouthing me. I appear infront of a gas station and stab a knife through a pepsi bottle. Wait, this is a dream. I am lucid again. I have to calm myself down, I am still angery. I go inside then come back out and then I loose all recall. Duration~5 minutes ........

  LD16 since 02-17-12: A great WILD with shape change and my first walk on water! *This was my third WILD attempt of the night and follows the LD15 about 4 hours later, when I had just over 8 hours sleep*. It took about 20 minutes to get to a LD state. Many of my WILDs start with dark colors and limited visuals that then improve as I go. I went through a long stabalizing ritual. I examined each major joint and moved them all around until I clearly had a dream body. I realized the scenery was just blurry colorful surfaces and that I should pick a place to be. I could not think clearly enough to come up with anything new, so I decide to do The Kona Resort again. It took about 3 minutes of picturing each part of the scene for it to develop into a cohesive playground for me. I was not happy at first with the clarity of things so I decided to try a new stablizing trick. I watched each hand as I slowly climbed an invisible ladder. I got a deeper clarity from doing this and decided to back flip into the pool. I repeat the process one more time.
 I decided I should try to accomplish a goal. I have been trying to have a vivid sense of smell lately, but so far have failed. I imagined that the luau must be taking place and the buffet line should offer many things to smell. I went down it and had little luck tasting or smelling the 4 items I sampled. The Lohee Salmon and lemon cake did have reasonable tastes but no smells. I pictured that the hula show would be going on. When I got to the stage 3 lovely women were performing. I got up on stage and ran my hands all over the middle one (and maybe did more, I'll never tell.) Her hair felt amazing. I tried to smell her hair and got a hint of sent.
 I tried shape shifting into an eagle. This is only the second time I have done this where I realy felt like I image a bird would. It was much easier this time and I beat my wings and lifted off. I stabalized in the air examining and flexing my talons. I experimented with soaring, then after a few minutes went and landed by the pool again. I became human again.
 I still want to smell something so I remember I thought a lotus flower would work best. The hotel has a nice pond by the pool so I imagined it would be growing there. It was not there at first, so I kept turning and looking until I found it. I picked one and could not smell it, darn. I thought maybe I will give the flower to the luau girl I pictured last time. That made me think of the minor Dream Task of Febuary. I turned it into a valentine's card which took a minute to get a clear red heart card. She was sitting at the tables and when I gave it to her, she gave me a big hug. I did smell a hint of perfume on her.
 I had her sit on my lap facing me and levitated up above the trees. I decide to change the scene abit. I looked for a nice boat and found one out to sea. I took us there and noticed she was still holding a big red heart shaped valentine's card. How cute. I played around with the speed boat for about 5 minutes racing around and taking sharp turns. Then I decided to try something new. I wanted to walk on water. I went to the edge and assured myself I could do it. This is new to my brain so it fought me on this. I walked out and for about 3 minutes struggled with the water feeling like wet sponge and trying to not sink into it. Then I realised my brain would need an exuse why I could walk on water. I decided that the sea must be covered with a layer of plastic, kind of like a water bed. That worked and I was bobbing up and down on the waves. I walked across the water back to shore.
 I did not know what to do, so I spent about 15 minutes between playing with the hula girl(blush), trying to smell food, and creating more details like butterflies in the air. I actually did smell the food this time, but not vividely. At this time I became aware that my body had to use the bathroom, so I decided to go ahead and wake up. Duration~40 minutes.

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## Zalak123

Welll... ah, thanks. But I already know how to WILD. I just asked if I could do it when I normally go to sleep. And I am now fairly certain it is possible.

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## Sivason

It is totally possable, and I attempt it often enough. Sorry if the huge journal entries seemed off topic. I just got thinking after reading your thread, and hoped to confirm for myself that the amount of sleep would affect things. When I got such strong results I thought I'd share them. Anyways, you are right, they can be done, and there is no reason we all should not be trying them, even if they often don't work. 
Hey, thanks for starting the thread. If I had not read it the night before, I may not have been as focused and may have missed out on a cool LD.

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## Zalak123

Your welcome I suppose.

And congratulations.

I still am convinced it's possible.

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## lazerblade

It IS possible. I have done it. However, it was a pretty short dream. I interacted in a totally passive manner, but after about 30 seconds it just started losing stabilization. I tried to re-stabilize but I couldn't. The time told me that my dream ended around when my first REM cycle normally ends. I had a short OBE(which I consider an LD) using a method similar to WILD years before, but it was a similar story.

My conclusion is that while WILDing without WBTB is fairly easy(for me  :tongue2: ) you can't really get very good dreams out of it. I'm still kind of nudged by the idea of how awesome it would be to get good dreams out of it though.

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## Choi

It is possible. All you have to do it to find a way to get completely relaxed and mantain awareness then you have to be in a meditative state of mind, clear of thoughts, hope and expectations.

There are many ways to do this, but this is the core of it all, and depending on how fast you can do this the faster you are able to tune into your consciousness.

Right now I have found a way to relax my body to the point where I am no longer aware of my physical body, I can't even feel it.

So when I get to that state I pracctise meditation and if I can just have that focus for a second I just have to focus on a thought and I am in a dream.  

So find a way to get your body completely relaxed and for meditation pracctise I would recommend mindfulness: Jon Kabat-Zinn - "The Healing Power of Mindfulness" - YouTube 
But use what ever that you find works for you.

You can read about my so far only successful WILD before sleep attempt in my DJ.

Good luck!  :wink2:

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## gab

@choi
Thanks for the link. Do you mind sharing your method for relaxing your body?

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## Choi

> @choi
> Thanks for the link. Do you mind sharing your method for relaxing your body?



My god I just wrote a complete personal guide to you and when I clicked the post button, it all dissapeared... Thanks automatic log out Dreamviews!
Anyway you can read about it in my DJ  :smiley:  .... I'll send you a PM as well  :wink2:

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## gab

@Choi - thank you :smiley:

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## Robot_Butler

Trying to WILD when you first go to sleep at night is a recipe for frustration.  You can do everything right, but there will not be a dream for you to enter.  A key ingredient of WILD is your timing.  You want to be super relaxed and falling asleep right as you hit a long and vivid REM cycle.  There are no long or vivid REM cycles when you first go to sleep.  You can become very relaxed, see some hypnagogic hallucinations, ect, but you will not be able to dream.  You can not force yourself to dream.  You can just be in the right place at the right time to catch one.

The best you can hope for is to remain aware through the early stages of sleep, for an hour or two, until your first REM cycle hits.  This will just feel like hours of frustrating "racing mind" insomnia, followed by a brief, low quality lucid dream.  By "low quality," I mean one of those lucids where you can barely focus your eyes, and you can't contol your body enough to get off the floor. 

If you want practice with WILD without an alarm, try it during a short afternoon nap.  Ten or fifteen minutes should be enough to tell if you are due for an afternoon REM cycle.  As soon as you lie down and get relaxed, you should start getting dreamlets and hypnagogia.

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## Hyu

You can try it of course, and the common consensus seems to be that it is possible, but difficult and time consuming.

I've tried it quite a few time and my experiences match Robot_Butler exactly.
Even after experiencing strong hypnagogic hallucinations for over half an hour I never felt any sign of actually entering a dream.
The waiting becomes gradually more frustrating and unpleasant.
I can not recommend it.

If you want to WILD, you're better off setting yourself an alarm and WBTB or trying to do it during an afternoon nap.

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## transient

I have tried many times to WILD when I normally go to sleep. The only time its actually worked was a time that I wasn't trying to do it in the first place. Every other time I've tried I end up getting almost to SP then I hit a wall. Afterwards I am unable to fall asleep for hours. For the sake of sleep I try to stick to DILD and the like.

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## Zalak123

Thanks guys, but I was just asking if it was possible. I'm not worried about how hard it is, and now i'm convinced it is possible.

Thanks, i'm gonna try it now, til' it works.

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## Hukif

Wonder why you were so troubled by alarms... you don't need them even if you WILD in the middle of the night really <.<
You could use MILD to wake up during the night and then WILD like normal too.

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## Zalak123

I'm just gonna try to WILD when I normally go to sleep.

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## Mancon

Moved this to the WILD subforum.

Best of luck, Zalak!

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## Zalak123

Thank you. There are too many sub-forums, it's confusing.

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## Robot_Butler

> Thanks guys, but I was just asking if it was possible. I'm not worried about how hard it is, and now i'm convinced it is possible.
> 
> Thanks, i'm gonna try it now, til' it works.



I think you misunderstand what everyone is saying.  It is not possible.

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## roland3tr

> Trying to WILD when you first go to sleep at night is a recipe for frustration.  You can do everything right, but there will not be a dream for you to enter.  A key ingredient of WILD is your timing.  You want to be super relaxed and falling asleep right as you hit a long and vivid REM cycle.



Just read this. It's not a matter of "nothing is impossible", it's just a physical fact. Believe me, it'll save you time and sleep.

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## Choi

I will prove you wrong. Just like the earth once was perceived flat.  :Shades wink:

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## roland3tr

I hope so  ::D:  By the way  "The Art of Dreaming" by Carlos Castaneda - I loved that book  :smiley:

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## Spyguy

> I hope so  By the way  "The Art of Dreaming" by Carlos Castaneda - I loved that book



Thx, I knew I wanted it, but I had forgotten the name  :tongue2:  I'll definitely read it sometime soon  ::D:

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## Zalak123

Ah, but you see, my friend claims to have achieved this. I have read your posts, and I did some research. I'm convinced it's possible. I'm going to try it every night ti'l I get it, or I give up.

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## Zalak123

Perhaps I could manually change my change cycle?

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