# Sleep and Dreams > Research >  >  Will sleeping pills hinder or help your dreaming

## dreamtamer007

Its Saturday morning, well afternoon I should say. My dream recall during the morning hours seems to be pretty steady at this point.  The main thought Im having this after noon is my excellent dream recall capabilities in the morning hours. At night 10 to 12:00 o-clock or so I take sleeping pills. Im addicted to them. That is I cant get to sleep without them. I posted this before as a problem but thats not why Im typing this. Its almost guaranteed that after I take my sleeping pills, I will remember nothing. So after the pills have worn off the next morning, I get up have a cup of tea (regular) or two (by the way, that used to keep me up) and go back to sleep and wake up in an hour or so remember my dream, record it, go back to sleep and do it again. This goes on all morning two to four times. My point is as an experiment with over the counter sleeping pills. Do you think the same would be true for everyone? I think the pills suppress the REM sleep until they were off then Your REM has to make up for loose time.  ::idea:: 
I already know what it does to me. I was wondering if anyone was doing any or interested in any research on the subject.

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## voidofform

what sort of pills?   benzos, antihistamines, zopiclone/derm or something else?

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## Howie

I am prescribed to a tranquilizer. Since I have been on them my dream recall and my lucid dreaming have decresaed dramatically. That is my own experiance!
I did some research a while back on the specific drug that I am on. Through studies that have been done, along side the comments of many other users, they have ALL had the decrease in dream recall. Those that had a change that is. Some did not post about dreaming and the like. 

This promted me do look further into differant sleeping pills and dream recall.
I have yet to find any that did not in some cases not only effect dream recall but general recall as well.
There are many many articles out there that I myself have yet to go over.
All the ones I have have been conclusive in the effect of dream recall. All have been in conert to wich there has been a decrease in memory. 
Most being labled as "unatural sleep"

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## nina

I've found out...from experience...any stimulants (caffeine, amphetamine-like substances, etc.) will increase dream recall, realism, and control. And any depressants/tranquilizers (sleep aids, anti-anxiety meds, benzos like xanax, valium, alcohol, etc.) will greatly decrease dream recall, realism, and control.

It's as simple as that. I'm no doctor or scientist or anything this is just speaking from pure personal experience.

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## Merck

Well with sleep medications such as Ambien(zolpidem tartrate), you actually DO go through REM sleep.  The only problem is that when it is actively working, memory loss is a common side effect.  That is why commercials tell you to make sure you can get a full night's sleep (8 hours).  I don't know as much about Lunesta(eszopiclone) but I'm pretty sure it works in a similar way as Ambien.  I don't know a lot about the other commonly used medications other than barbiturates, but those aren't really used as much as they used to be.  But over all I would say that and medication that has sedative properties would have an effect on recall.  O'nus would be able to go into much more detail than me on this matter.  You might want to PM him/her and ask about it because he/she may be aware of some studies in the scientific literature that may have already been conducted.

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## dreamtamer007

Yea guys, its called Resteral. IF I spelled it correctly. It is commonly used in hospitals. I told my doctor I want off it and he said nothing. I guess I'll have to kick it the hard way. Problem is Im taking twice as much and running out soon. So I'm goanna be shtty as hell for at lest a few days. Last time I tried to stop I was up for four days and couldnt take anymore.

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## Howie

> _Originally posted by dreamtamer007+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dreamtamer007)</div>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Yea guys, its called Resteral. IF I spelled it correctly. It is commonly used in hospitals. I told my doctor I want off it and he said nothing. I guess I'll have to kick it the hard way. Problem is Im taking twice as much and running out soon. So I'm goanna be shtty as hell for at lest a few days. Last time I tried to stop I was up for four days and couldnt take anymore.[/b]
> 			
> 		
> ...



But you are a professor, correct?   ::lol::

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## dreamtamer007

> _Originally posted by Howetzer_
> *
> But you are a professor, correct? *



Yea Thanks again Guys Yaaa the doctor gave me a new sleeping pill and said this one is none addictive. That is I can take it for a month and then just stop. Science  ant she sweet.
And get this. The pamphlet on the drug says its in the family of hypnotic drugs.

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## dreamtamer007

Well its working so far. There has been no withdrawing physically from the old sleeping pills. Just a little mental withdraw. Kind of miss that groggy feeling that makes you want to sleep. But hay, thats ok as long as I still get to sleep. I think its bad for dream recall, as in there is none? Thats ok for now. If it gets me away from sleeping pills altogether then Its, Good-by sleeping pills.  :smiley:

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## zipperhead

Hello,

I realize this is an older post, but found this site when my search led me right here.

Just from experience, I can say that I have tried resteral, and went from zero dreams to so many I was overwhelmed to say the least.

Same with my wife.

However , my  having fibro, and stenosis, possibly elevated intracranial pressure may affect this?

My wife the real "zipperhead" has had her stenosis /chiari documented and had decompression surgery.(they make the skull bigger inside for more room in the back) , 
Not gonna go into all her problems , just wanted to mention as I trhought possibly may be relevent, that she has had sleep studies as, many people with chiari have, (as well as fibromyalgia syndrome sufferers  also do), and she as well as so many others have their delta, and alpha? or beta? (I forget now) waves are mixed up, making REM sleep near impossible often for many of these type persons.

 So maybe each individual's chemistry , as well as intracranial pressures, (as they do vary, big time, for so many reasons) could be making a difference in people like us????
I should say my wife's brain waves are messed up as it is, and could be a reason for this,. but woud be wrong not to mention she takes 1000 mgs of diamox each 24 hours, which changes the ph in her blood so much they accidentally tried to admit her before , from being unfamiliar with the effects of diamox.

So Possibly the chemistry of her brain allowed her to dream from restoral also? or maybe just because it was the first she has slept as long as 3 hours in several months?

I wonder which if not both make a difference???

I hope this didn't wander too far off topic, as I really felt ity was relevent, to the subject , but I can get "too wordy" at times.

Happy to meet yopu and am interested in any scientific information, pharmocology, info , anything to do with sleep , as well as lucid dreams.
Our son at 14 begged me to tell him how to fly, and I explained from a very old article you may know of regarding "spinning oneself to sleep" to control your dreams.

This seems like a very nice forum to delve into for me.

Thanks,
Terry

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## Howie

Hey Zipperhead. Welcome. You & your wife.
Thanks for the information. That is interseting.

 :Oops:  Could you explain some of the medical terms you have used?

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## Classico

> _Originally posted by Aquanina_
> *I've found out...from experience...any stimulants (caffeine, amphetamine-like substances, etc.) will increase dream recall, realism, and control. And any depressants/tranquilizers (sleep aids, anti-anxiety meds, benzos like xanax, valium, alcohol, etc.) will greatly decrease dream recall, realism, and control.*



Vicodin, and Alcohol I believe- atleast with my own experiences, cause intense [Vicodin] or 'Interesting single theme,' (Alcohol) dreams. Dissasociative Anesthetics are inconclusive. MDMA, LSD-25/50, and those in the Tryptamine family seem to cause very vivid dreams. MDMA doesn't seem to affect recall. LSD has that aswell as great dream recall. I cannot comment on the Tryptamines. 

Barbituates (Non-CNS Depressants) seems to hinder all dreaming, the only exception is perhaps nightmare experiences- very very dark encounters with no bright colours at all. 

CNS depressents have thus far not done anything to *me*, but are thus far inconclusive (Flexeril).

Vicodin, while intense and vivid, caused very very very very very intense and frightening nightmares.

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## zipperhead

[quote]Hey Zipperhead. Welcome. You & your wife.
Thanks for the information. That is interseting.

 :Oops:  Could you explain some of the medical terms you have used?

Thank you for the kind welcome.

I just saw this p[ost last night so forgive my late answer.

I will include a large detailed expalanation for chiari in a second since you asked for it. Most people are very curious about it anyway, and the more eduaction the more possibility of getting some funding for research, as there is only one clinic foir it in the world to date, and it is fairly new.

As far as "fibro" I was refferring to fibromyalgia syndrome , which is poortly undewrstood in itself as it is basically a set of symptoms with a name.  Studies are showing more and more people with stenosis
("spinal stenosis") (a narrowing or possibly narrow at birth?? spinal canal) , and fibromyalgia, (or the diagnosis of it) are afflicted with chiari malformation (ACM or Arnold Chiari malformation) .

Studies are pointing towards these afflictions going hand in hand, more and more. Ther are even spinal decompression surgerys being done in some cases of stenosis, to enlarge the spinal canal, and reduce or hopefully eliminate symptoms.

 They are said to be a condition of the bones, however there are said to be cases of forcep induced chiari, in which babies were delivered with forceps and it is belived that the mishaping of the skull during birth can cause bone growth malformations such as chiari in the skull.  It is also belived by many that some natural births in which a birth canal is too small, this same induced chiari can occurr.

We had to go to a different state to a university, to even find someone (out of several hospitals and clinics here) able to read the MRI, as it is very poorly known about in many areas.

Well I am pasting in what I recently wrote down for someone to explain chiari better. Here it is:

 Chiri is like fitting a size 10 foot into a size 6 shoe.
Only the brain is the object trying to fit into a scull with one of it's compartments being too small.

 In a sense it ends up affecting the nervous system, due to the physical pressure that is put upon the brain stem, as well as the hydralic pressure that can arise from the hydrocephalous, which results from CSF (cerebral spinal fluid ) being unable to properly flow from the brain and skull.


The brain stem, being the main message center of all things controlled by the brain, voluntary or involuntary.

As you probably know the Brain stem turns into the spinal cord, and leads to the rest of the body, in every way. If the nerve signal pathways become impaired in any way as they do so much in so many cases of chiari, 

you can have problems with literally every single function in the body, as well as your senses, and sanity. Often as in my wife's case the carotid arteries are compressed along with the rest of the brain due to cerebral spinal fluid being unable to flow properly from the skull. 

This cuts down on the amount of blood/oxygen that can reach the brain, and can lead to "vascular dementia" very unpleasant to deal with or prove without a world reknowned neurosurgeon who specializes in the fluid dynamics of the brain.

 Chiari is basically a condition of the skull/cranium, in which the posterior fossa, (rear lower part of the skull) is 

too "tight" and forces the cerebellum to grow in such a way that it pushes into and can even kink the brain stem, at the same time acting as a cork in a bottle with each heart beat, as this is when the cerebral spinal fluid is pushed out from the skull, and supposed to be able to pass on into the spinal canal, but with the downward moition of the heartbeats,

 the oivercrowded cerebellum, is eventually forcved into trhis space, blocking the flow.

Sadly with chiari something called Syringomyalia can also occurr.

This is thought to be from the excess pressures of fluid that has no way to properly pass around or away from the spinal cord , and as best as I understand it, the fluid attempts to pass through the cord itself and , what is known as a syrinx can develope anywhere on the cord if decompression is not performed in time. Sometimes they develope anyway. Bobby Jones (the great ameteur golfer, who a recent movie was made about) had syringomyalia, and A.S.A.P. foundation who provides grants , help, and more help to chiari, and syringo sufffrerers, was pretty much founded due to Bobby Jones, to the best of my memory, anyway.




here are a couple of pics that show chiari.
the second animated one shows the cork in the bottle action going on with the heartbeat as I described via CINE MRI imaging.



You should maybe be able to see where they remove part of the 

skull in the back and at the bottom, to make more room.



As in my wife they carved out more room, mad e a big patch, like a baloon addition to her dura (the sack that surrounds the brain for it to "float in"), and also a lamenectomy. (removal of the back half of her top vertabrae to make more room as her spinal canal up top as well as the posterior fossa was too small.

I copuld tell you a ton more of symptoms and all the rest but I just wanted to attempt to answer the question(s) asked , as this is too damn long even for me.
 ::roll::  

I am sorry, but as you can see it is complicated, and I didn't even get into shunts, seizures , none of the ten pages of symptoms. If someone wants to know or needs help, please just PM me, and I will gladly help in any way, I can.  So many people with these conditions have had to get help from others besides Drs., and even their own neurologists and , yep even neurosurgeons, (we know) it is sickening. This is why I offer to help.

Other than that I am ready to "Dream On"  :Exclaim:  

Peace,

Terry

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## Howie

Wow. that is remarkable actually.
Thanks for elaborating on that for everyone.

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