# Lucid Dreaming > Dream Control >  >  Archetype Control: An Elegant Tool

## Mzzkc

::*Part 1*::

In the following thread, I'll try my best to communicate what Archetype Control is and how it can be used effectively. It will be by no means a complete guide, but it should be a useful introduction to the topic for all those unfamiliar with it.

Enough fluff, let's get down to business.

*~ Pre-Reqs ~*

Before we can even start this conversation, we need to establish some definitions and go over a little theory. I highly recommend you acquaint yourself with the idea of a schema. This is because archetypes are a type of schema, a very specific schema, no less. 

*~ Introduction ~*

For the those among you who'd prefer the tl;dr version, schemas serve as a broad way of looking at the world or an idea; a lens, if you will. One that can be switched out with others on the fly to help our brains make automatic decisions on how we should act or think in a given situation. Archetypes are the magnifiers we place within these lenses in order to direct our focus onto a particular object or idea. So, for instance, everyone reading this has an established schema dealing with communication. If we were to focus in on a part of this schema, say a cellular phone, we would immediately be presented with an archetype dealing with that object. We automatically know what a cell phone is used for, where we can find ours, how to work one, etc. It's these automatic associations that allow us to use the phone easily without much thought.

I hope people are starting to see where this is going. Everything I've stated above can be directly applied to dreams. By drawing on strongly developed archetypes, anyone can achieve precision in dream control quickly and easily. The trick lies in knowing what archetypes you already have, how you can call on them, and how they'll affect your dream. Hopefully, by the time you're done reading this guide, you'll be able to do all three.

*~ Examples ~*

A great way of explaining Archetype Control is through examples.

I'll start by explaining how I fly:

For four years, I was fairly addicted to an MMO entitled City of Heroes/Villains. The game, as you can imagine, entails taking the role of super-powered entity and attempting to keep the peace or bring about the destruction of everything. Obviously, there are several powers that allow the user to quickly travel through the world, namely flight, teleportation, super speed, and super jump. For flight, a player would click on a toggle button that could either be on or off, and turning it on would immediately lift your character from the ground and give you free range of motion through the skies. 

When I dream, all I have to do is click that button in order to start flying. More accurately, I emulate what it _feels_ like to hit that button, no keyboard or visualization required. The steps are as follows:

*Call on the CoH schema in order to put me in the correct frame of mind.*_ - This can be done simply by recalling what it's like to be playing the game.
_*Focus on the flight archetype and everything that entails.* _- I accomplish this by directing my attention to one particular aspect of the game._
*Emulate hitting the button that turns flight on.* _- Think clicking on a particular command, icon, or link. They're all distinct in their own way, and the one I shoot for here is very specific, but still easy for me to do._
*Let the archetype take care of the rest.*_ - It's as simple as that._
This is all very fluid, intuitive, and doesn't take any extensive thought whatsoever. More than that, it's reliable because the archetype I've already ingrained into my psyche (through hours of repetition) does everything for me. I simply need to set it into motion.

Movies, video games, and anime all lend themselves well to this form of control. I myself make use of various powers you'd find in anime and video games all the time. From DBZ style energy blasts to Bleach inspired power-ups to whipping out a gun that creates portals, it all falls under Archetype Control.

So, too, do 'techniques' like controlling your world via cell-phone, asking DCs to do tasks for you, and even the heralded belief method. If you have a firm grasp on what an archetype is, and how it works, these statements should be fairly easy to confirm on your own, but I'll go over them in the next installment. Just in case.

______________


Hopefully this has been enough to cover the basics and explain what Archetype Control actually is. If something isn't clear, please let me know, and I'll be sure to address it when I get around to releasing the next section of this guide.

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## Mzzkc

::*Part 2*::

*~ Common Discoveries ~*

I think it's about time I had a disclaimer:

Archetype Control is by no means a new form of dream manipulation and has likely been around since LDing began, with new generations throughout the ages uncovering their own pieces to the puzzle. If one frequents these forums at all, then one knows threads proclaiming the discovery a great new control method pop up all the time. Personally, I think this is a wonderful thing.

However, the reason I'm bringing it to light now is because these discoveries are only parts of a whole. Separate, they're useless to everyone but the people who found them. Together, they paint a picture everyone can look at and understand. 

What is that picture? None other than a powerful form of control that can be adapted to do anything reliably and easily.

Each discovery is a personal victory, one in which the oneironaut has succeeded in finding a strong personal archetype he can use to fulfill his goals. And when it comes to Archetype Control, everything needs to be a personal revelation. It's up to you, the dreamer, to recognize your strong personal archetypes and figure out a way to use them in order to achieve a desired outcome. Fortunately, you have knowledge these others did not. Knowledge of the bigger picture. Knowledge of the mechanics behind your future breakthrough. Knowledge enough to seek, within yourself, the solutions to your problems.

*~ Implementations ~*

The steps to utilize basic Archetype Control are surprisingly straightforward:

 Recognize your goal. Find an existing personal archetype you feel would bring about the desired results. Get Lucid. Call on the schema the archetype lies under, using basic recall skills. Focus in on the archetype in question. Set the archetype in motion.
As you can see, that leaves a lot of room for creative implementation. The important thing is that you find a way to set the archetype in motion. Chanting Kamehameha in the proper stance, for instance, might be a great way for a DBZ fan to set in motion the act of firing off a powerful energy blast. Or maybe you need to flick your wand in just the right way when casting Wingardium Leviosa.

Finding the right motions, sounds, or feelings that will invoke the associations needed to thrust your archetype into action is of critical importance. And sometimes, you need to figure this stuff out on the fly. To illustrate my point, light levels seem to be a difficult thing for most people to adjust at will. I myself ran into this problem during a lucid awhile back, so I stopped and thought about all the ways I knew to make things brighter IRL. Oddly enough, the TI-83 graphing calculator came to mind, with its ability to change the contrast of the screen with a few button presses. Deciding to at least give it a try, I pulled one out of my pocket and hit the right buttons, thinking of the world around me as the screen. Lo and behold, despite my reservations, the world brightened with every push of the button.

This is just one example of a not-so-standard implementation of Archetype Control. That kind of approach is required to accomplish more complex goals using this method, but practically speaking it won't be necessary for most routine tasks. If your archetypes are strong, and chosen well, putting them into action will be a simple matter of emulation.

______________


::*Part 3*::

*~ Building New Archetypes / How To Do Anything ~*

After you've familiarized yourself with the archetypes you already have, you might be wondering what else there is to do. Well, the wonderful thing about archetypes is you can make new ones designed to fulfill a specific task. A task that those you have now aren't suited for. Very simply, this is done through conditioning.

There are tons of ways to condition your mind and create new, powerful associations. For example, video games persist as an excellent way to develop new archetypes. Why? Because their repetitive nature and pervasive presentation allow associations to develop naturally and easily. Gamers learn that if they hit this button, something cool happens, and those results become intuitive for them, second nature. And as you'd expect, these simple actions can be directly translated to dreams using methods we've already discussed.

Beyond video games lies the realm of music, videos, and daydreams. These are all useful tools in creating strong associations IWL, but it's important to note they only become powerful through repetition. Try listening to the same song over and over again, keeping your goal, you end result, firmly in mind. Or watch your favorite television/movie characters perform the same actions throughout the video, over and over again. And for those times when you've go nothing better to do, visualize your task throughout the day, ingraining that method completely within your mind's eye.

Remember, these are just a handful of ways you can build archetypes to suit your needs. There are tons of ways to create the associations needed for precise dream control. Sometimes you just have to get creative. The important thing to remember is that you prescribe meaning to your archetype building. Don't just do it blindly; really get into it. That's always how I've gotten my best results.

But it gets better.

Waking life isn't the only place you can develop new Archetypes. As it turns out, if you figure out how to do something cool in a dream, and are able to reproduce those results, you've got the makings of an intensely powerful Archetype right at your fingertips. Archetypes built in dreams, though hard to create if you aren't lucid often, can be incredibly useful. Moreso, I've found that dream-built Archetypes take significantly less time to develop than the traditional sort as the schemata driving the dream-built ones are already there.

To build up the association, the same rules apply: repetition and meaning. Draw from the right schemata (there usually isn't just one for these) and perform the action you first used to initiate control. Eventually, this action alone will be enough to control the dream in the desired way.

*~ The Belief Myth Explained ~*

I touched on this issue in a fairly recent post. I've provided an edited version below for the purpose of this guide.





> . . .dreams are not built around [belief, they are built around schematic and archetypal associations]. . .The reason [belief] works at all (and it doesn't always) is because calling upon that feeling. . .call[s] upon a broad schema which will bring about its own unfocused consequences. Sometimes [belief] brings about action, or change, but how many times have you [believed something would happen] in life only to be utterly disappointed? All those instances are going to hurt the effectiveness of [control through belief], sometimes dramatically.
> 
> On the flip side, if you've always gotten exactly what you've expected out of life, [belief] is going to work wonderfully for you, at least as far as making something happen. Still, without proper focus. . .whatever does occur will not happen the way you actually want it to. The real-world example that comes to mind is of a dreamer who wanted to create a pyramid, so he believed, expected with all his heart, a pyramid would appear before his eyes. Sure enough, big building blocks tumbled down from the sky. They toppled over one another to form a kind of lopsided triangle that was not at all what he wanted. [This] lack of focus proved to be the difference between an adventure into an ancient, mysterious tomb and something weird to look at.



The quote does a good job of summing up how belief and expectation fit into the tools we're working with here. As it turns out, belief is just one big unfocused schemata. It has its uses, yes, but your results  will vary, even when combining it with more focused Archetypes and Schemata.

*~ References ~*

- http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/nature...control-57283/

The Cusp's original work which sparked my interest and subsequent research into Archetypes, Schemata, and how dreams operated at an atomic level.

- http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/master...-dreams-48095/

BillyBob's foray into teaching the DV community about Schemata. We disagree on some fundamentals (concerning primarily belief) and his end result is much broader than the focus of this guide (it also require a major shift in how you perceive things), but it's still an excellent resource.

- http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/infini...reaming-46571/

Another one of BillyBob's masterpieces. It also touches on Schemata and how to make use of it. I believe it's a precursor to his “Mastering Your Dreams” guide.

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## saltyseedog

I've had a couple lucids where I hijacked cars and after awhile it turned into grand theft auto san andreas because I put in like a thousand hours on that game

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## The Cusp

I like where this is going, especially the part about dispelling the myth of belief.  Looking forward to the rest.

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## Mzzkc

> I like where this is going, especially the part about dispelling the myth of belief.  Looking forward to the rest.



Do you want me to run the next part by you before putting it up? The whole basis of this guide is founded upon ideas you developed awhile back, which I've since explored on my own, so I'd like you to have a say in the final piece if you'll have it.

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## The Cusp

No need, you're doing good so far.  But if you want to, I'll have a look.

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## Maria92

This thread is made of awesome and win. Many thanks, Mzzkc.

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## Mzzkc

> This thread is made of awesome and win. Many thanks, Mzzkc.



I figure it'll help some people and definitely be a good reference for those with whom I discuss the topic, but I'm also expecting it to go over a lot of heads, despite the fact it's so damn useful. We'll see, neh?

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## Waterknight

I never knew that it had a name but I have always used this type of control. I even write stories where the characters have certain powers that I can then use in a dream because I can associate them with a character from my writing. I fly by thinking of DBZ and i have done some acrobatic stuff by using a KH2 reaction command.

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## Supernova

I haven't got time at the moment to read every word, but I read part of it, and I like where this is going. Important too that you note to activate a schema simply by thinking about it, and you went from general to specific. Basically this is how the mind works all the time, but because you're aware of it you can direct it to produce a desired effect.

To those who aren't 100% solid on how the mind uses schemas, LaBerge gives an excellect explanation in EWOLD chapter 5.  I reccomend this to anyone who hasn't read it.

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## Mzzkc

Part 2 is up. Part 3 might take a little while to finish, due to a recent influx of homework. As usual, I'm open for questions.

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## Waterknight

I think I read somewhere that archetype control can get a bit tricky because it is all based on associations. Some people say that if you call on one thing you might get something negative from it and instead of shooting a kamahameha Frieza shows up and destroys everything.

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## Mzzkc

That happens when you use broad schemas without focusing in on a particular archetype. I'll discuss this further in the next installment, but by honing in on a single archetype of considerable strength, you're almost guaranteed consistent and predictable results. Yes, related detail might worm its way into the dream, but I'm hoping people are smart enough to figure out good archetypes to use as opposed to crappy ones that'll toss them into a nightmare. Unless of course you all want a nightmare; they can be quite a bit of fun.

I'll also be covering ways you can fine tune your archetypes in the next part, which can be used to eliminate, or at least greatly diminish, any negative associations with a particular archetype.

Oh, and I'm taking your example to be a hyperbole, since I assume you know how silly it is.

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## The Cusp

> I think I read somewhere that archetype control can get a bit tricky because it is all based on associations. Some people say that if you call on one thing you might get something negative from it and instead of shooting a kamahameha Frieza shows up and destroys everything.



That's exactly what can happen.  I tried to use psychokenisis to part some trees like grass using my hands from a distance.  It activated my archetype of hand powers and I ended up with Iron Man like lights shooting from my hands instead.  No power blasts, just lights illuminating stuff from my hands.  Not what i was going for, but it was still pretty cool.

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## Samael

Just realized that I haven't actually posted to this thread.  :tongue2:  I find this interesting, mostly because it's so similar to the techniques I've used for a long time now. Archetype control is a good name for it.

In my own dreams, I've found it useful to create a character that I'll more or less default to during the more interesting, potentially scary dreams. And so, I tend to appear as Lucifer. It's a lot of fun, and has some cool side effects: invulnerability and energy manipulation, for instance. So it's possible to create archetypes that are so ingrained within your subconscious that you'll use them involuntarily. 

I think part of the reason that this particular schema has been so effective, for me, is that I actually created my online persona around the character archetype. Around the time that I joined DV, I was reading Mike Carey's _Lucifer_, and had recently dreamed about being the character. So now, if I spend a half hour a day on the forums, on average, as "Samael", then I'm solidifying the archetype within my mind. The fact that I'm thinking about dreams at the time (it's a forum about dreaming, after all) only exacerbates the effect.





> One that can be switched out with others on the fly to help our brains make automatic decisions on how we should act or think in a given situation.



Which apparently translates to: if you're dreaming, go ahead and be a complete sociopath. No one will mind.





> And sometimes, you need to figure this stuff out on the fly.



That's always fun. I'm thinking of the time that all the DCs around me were turning into zombies, and I decided that if I pulled out their souls and shoved them back in, it would somehow cure them.

The rationale doesn't need to make sense, you just need to believe it. And hey, convincing yourself to use dream-logic shouldn't be hard. People are tricking themselves out of lucids all the time.  ::roll:: 





> ...as opposed to crappy ones that'll toss them into a nightmare. Unless of course you all want a nightmare; they can be quite a bit of fun.



Silent Hill is full of wonderful archetypes that can help you with this. *Blood overflows from the white acrylic tub, spilling over the side and staining the tile floor...*

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## Waterknight

[QUOTE=Samael;1542129]In my own dreams, I've found it useful to create a character that I'll more or less default to during the more interesting, potentially scary dreams. And so, I tend to appear as Lucifer. It's a lot of fun, and has some cool side effects: invulnerability and energy manipulation, for instance. So it's possible to create archetypes that are so ingrained within your subconscious that you'll use them involuntarily. QUOTE]

I do this I Write a story with a character loosly based on myself and give tham any powers I wish to have in my dreams. If I want to have a power I just pull from my characters' abilities.

O and Mzzkc it is quite a bit of an exageration but I said that because I of what Ive read on here. I use this type of control (as mentioned above with original characters and existing stories such as harry potter or DBZ) and I have never had problems with it I get what i want or I dont get anything at all then i just switch to another method for that one particular task.

Oh and also it is possible to use several archetypes at once. You can cast a spell using the ancient language from eragon and then cast a spell with a harry potter wand all while dominating minds by using jedi mind trick.

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## Samael

> You can cast a spell using the ancient language from eragon and then cast a spell with a harry potter wand all while dominating minds by using jedi mind trick.



For sure. When I'm in the middle of a Harry Potter dream, I'll usually switch out to force powers when I run out of spells. Seriously, try remembering more than four useful spells during a dream.

You're missing a "[/", btw.

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## matthew123

OMG this was in stephen laberge's book!

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## Mzzkc

> Oh and also it is possible to use several archetypes at once. You can cast a spell using the ancient language from eragon and then cast a spell with a harry potter wand all while dominating minds by using jedi mind trick.



I would classify that as somewhere between basic and intermediate archetype control. The advanced stuff requires you to use multiple, abstract archetypes in conjunction with one another in order to achieve a single outcome.

On a related note, I actually managed to cure myself of some general anxiety issues using advanced archetype control IWL, so the applications of this extend beyond dreams, and it can be used for much more than what you've all been doing with it insofar. 

Unfortunately, I won't be able to cover anything beside the basics (advanced stuff can get really abstract, and these abstractions are often impossible to communicate effectively, since they're different from person to person), but I will be able to outline the bare bones and sinew on which everything else is built. This way, anyone who wants to delve deeper has a solid foundation.

All that said, if people insist on only using this form of control for powers and what have you, that's alright too. XP





> OMG this was in stephen laberge's book!



I haven't been able to read it because the one copy my university owns is always checked out. =/

Could you (or someone) give a synopsis of what he talked about? Besides what Supernova has already mentioned, of course.

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## Skydreamer707

hmm basically archetypes are conditioned responses or expectations associated with things? like for example, mario blocks appeared in my dream and i instantly knew that if i hit one with my head a coin would pop out. doesnt this  go off the same principle of reality checks? like how we expect something to not work and when the opposite happens in a dream it wakes us up?
Anyways i think i have the gist of it. if im following its all about conditioned expectations :/ but if thats true couldnt you form your own archetypes?

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## Mzzkc

> hmm basically archetypes are conditioned responses or expectations associated with things? like for example, mario blocks appeared in my dream and i instantly knew that if i hit one with my head a coin would pop out. doesnt this  go off the same principle of reality checks? like how we expect something to not work and when the opposite happens in a dream it wakes us up?
> Anyways i think i have the gist of it. if im following its all about conditioned expectations :/ but if thats true couldnt you form your own archetypes?



You've pretty much got the basics. And yes, new archetypes can be formed via conditioning. The next part will try to explain how that and everything else ties together and why simply expecting something to happen out of the blue isn't always the best way to do things. 

Obviously, this isn't the easiest concept to explain, or understand for that matter, but it's good to get questions like this so I know what to focus on in revisions.

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## Waterknight

I think I must have used this type of control unknowingly last night. my friend told me she wanted to jump on a trampoline so I used the method of finding stuff by turning a corner. I turned down an alley and at the end we found a bunch of mattresses. 

I looked at her and said sorry but then I said come on lets jump on the bed it will work. As we jumped the pile of matresses turned into a trampoline

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## Phantasos

Nice article, thanks Mzzkc. Can we hope for another article anytime soon?

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## omgitsadam

Great article man. Interestingly enough, before reading this I have already used similar techniques. Performing attacks or techniques from anime/games etc is my favorite way of accomplishing dream tasks

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## Mzzkc

> Nice article, thanks Mzzkc. Can we hope for another article anytime soon?



Thanks!

I'll usually post a guide if the subject needs to be addressed, but I still need to finish this one as it is. XP





> Great article man. Interestingly enough, before reading this I have already used similar techniques. Performing attacks or techniques from anime/games etc is my favorite way of accomplishing dream tasks



Haha, yeah, people tend to figure the method out on their own quite frequently, but knowing the details behind the magic enables them to do new and exciting things. =)

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## Raspberry

This sounds a lot more fun than just trying to force things to happen  :smiley: 

Looking forward to part 3!  ::D:

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## Pheenix

Really looking forward to building your own archetypes, because using old archetypes seems flawed or limiting to me.

Say, I'm a very socially anxious person, and what I have been recommended is cognitive exercises of imagining doing well. Do you think that sorta works by changing your schemas for social interaction?

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## juroara

I think this says a lot about the nature of dreams, that our ideas and beliefs are all around us in dreams. I think it might be fun to explore what archetypes are already in your personal dream world.

But this helps to explain a lot of weird and quirky things in dreams. One time I tried to force my little garden to grow and explode into a jungle. It didn't work. The more I commanded my plants to grow, the more they shriveled.  :Sad: 

But in another dream I was just so happy I was singing while staring at my plants. Suddenly my plants grew wild! Now that I think about it, that was an archetype in motion. Because I'm total hippie and I've believed for years that singing, loving, and playing music for plants is beneficial to their growth, and not uh, yelling at them.

Explore your head!

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## Skydreamer707

Im still Excited about Part 3 :3

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## Mzzkc

Part 3 is half done, but I probably won't be able to get to the other half until after finals.

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## XeL

Awesome work, Mzzkc. This is actually the best thing I've read here on DV for quite some time. Thanks!

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## Mzzkc

> This sounds a lot more fun than just trying to force things to happen



It totally is.





> Really looking forward to building your own archetypes, because using old archetypes seems flawed or limiting to me.



It's actually pretty straightforward. And you can use the same methods to build up pre-existing archetypes as well. 

The hard part is teaching it well. XP





> Say, I'm a very socially anxious person, and what I have been recommended is cognitive exercises of imagining doing well. Do you think that sorta works by changing your schemas for social interaction?



I'd say that's likely the case. Working schemas in waking life can often be just as useful as manipulating them in the dream-state. After all, schemas are used all the time IWL, but it's so automatic no one really notices.





> I think this says a lot about the nature of dreams, that our ideas and beliefs are all around us in dreams. I think it might be fun to explore what archetypes are already in your personal dream world.



Do you mean in-dream or through retrospection? I've done the latter, but the former could prove quite interesting.





> But this helps to explain a lot of weird and quirky things in dreams. One time I tried to force my little garden to grow and explode into a jungle. It didn't work. The more I commanded my plants to grow, the more they shriveled. 
> 
> But in another dream I was just so happy I was singing while staring at my plants. Suddenly my plants grew wild! Now that I think about it, that was an archetype in motion. Because I'm total hippie and I've believed for years that singing, loving, and playing music for plants is beneficial to their growth, and not uh, yelling at them.
> 
> Explore your head!



Haha, awesome example, thanks for sharing!





> Awesome work, Mzzkc. This is actually the best thing I've read here on DV for quite some time. Thanks!



It's good to hear this stuff is making some impact. 

And thanks for the praise, it means a lot. ^.^

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## Soulnote

Would this be a personal archetype to me? I like to climb things in real life, pretty much anything, tree's, buildings, anything. I tried to remember that in a LD, and sort of "Climbed Air"

There's no record of it though, my comp was broken at the time.

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## Phantasos

Mzzkc, what about third part?  :smiley:  The article will be perfect with it!

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## Mzzkc

> Mzzkc, what about third part?  The article will be perfect with it!



It's sitting in limbo, half finished. =(

Unfortunately, this project keeps falling to the bottom of my to-do list, as I've got a few other dream related projects I'm currently working on.

More than that, it's very difficult to write about and teach this subject in an efficient/accurate/lucid way. That hurts my motivation a bit there. XP

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## Raspberry

> It's sitting in limbo, half finished. =(
> 
> Unfortunately, this project keeps falling to the bottom of my to-do list, as I've got a few other dream related projects I'm currently working on.
> 
> More than that, it's very difficult to write about and teach this subject in an efficient/accurate/lucid way. That hurts my motivation a bit there. XP



Take all the time you need!  :smiley:  We're lucid dreamers... I'm sure we've all learned how to be patient haha  ::D:  That excluded noobs, but I'm sure they'll manage to survive.

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## Maria92

> Take all the time you need!  We're lucid dreamers... I'm sure we've all learned how to be patient haha  That excluded noobs, but I'm sure they'll manage to survive.



I lol'd.  ::chuckle::

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## insideout

This idea sound interesting and promising. It also reminds me of the idea of passive control vs. active control, although quite different.

I've been having trouble meeting a specific person in my lucid dreams. Is there an archetype I could use to help with this goal? I can't seem to think of one...

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## Mzzkc

Yeah, just use the moments IWL where you've found someone you were looking for. If you get too caught up on the looking, you'll never find the person. Therefore, it's better to simply default to the finding.

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## AetherUnlimited

Great post, will definitely help me with control the next time i get a lucid! I look forward to discovering how much I have learned from various videogames, animes, and movies.

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## Littleshogunn

> Take all the time you need!  We're lucid dreamers... I'm sure we've all learned how to be patient haha  That excluded noobs, but I'm sure they'll manage to survive.



Hahaha yea we all hate noobs  :tongue2:  ... (I am one)

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## Raspberry

> Hahaha yea we all hate noobs  ... (I am one)



Aw I don't hate noobs  :wink2:  I was one only a little while ago.

But I have noticed that we got an explosion of noobs this january. Noobs everywhere!!!

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## Maria92

> Noobs everywhere!!!



This sentence is one letter away from meaning something awesome.  :vicious:

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## HeritageDreamer

I had a dream where I was trying to run away from a zombie infested island by flying a plane. The controls of the plane were the same as in GTA San Andreas. I have never been great at the planes in the game and my skills transferred to the dream. I wasn't able to get very far.

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## MadMonkey

Can't wait for 3  :smiley:  Does that make me a noob?  ::D:

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## Mzzkc

Part three is done, but won't be up until Puffin checks her inbox. XP

Hope it doesn't disappoint.

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## MadMonkey

Yay!!!!!

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## Raspberry

Let's hope Puffin checks her inbox soon  ::D:

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## patrick45

_





 Originally Posted by Mario92


This sentence is one letter away from meaning something awesome. 



..................................................  .._

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## Mzzkc

Doesn't look like Puffin is responding. =(

I contacted Cacophony about it; let's hope for the best, neh?

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## Raspberry

DAMMIT PUFFIN!!  :Cheeky: 

*crosses fingers*

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## Mzzkc

A big thanks goes out to Xei for getting the third part up and running!

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## Waterknight

I read part 3. I see what you mean by how the things in part 3 are mostly up to us. You say tat building archetypes in dreams is difficult if you arent lucid often but reading over it I have built them in non lucids on severalm ocasions. I type of super running that I do I developed in non lucid dreams.

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## Mzzkc

I guess I should have been a tad more specific.

Yes, building up specific archetypes in dreams is typically hard to do if you aren't lucid often, but remember I said:





> As it turns out, if you figure out how to do something cool in a *dream*, and are able to reproduce those results, you've got the makings of an intensely powerful Archetype right at your fingertips.



I didn't say "lucid" for a reason. It's entirely possible to begin creation of archetypes from a non-lucid; you just have to figure out what you did in that non-lucid and put it into practice. Most of the time these non-lucid abilities are interesting one-time deals that rarely occur again unless you make the effort to build on them. Obviously, there are exceptions to that, like, for instance, your running, or my initial TK and sword drawing abilities. The most crucial thing to keep in mind, however, is the importance of repetition. If non-lucids can do that for you, that's awesome, but oftentimes you'll have to look to lucids to do most of your building and strengthening.

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## Raspberry

The 3rd part is up? Whit?? 

*Goes off the find it*

And thanks Xei  ::D:

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## MadMonkey

Wait did i miss something cuz I cant find were the third part is. Can I get a link.  :tongue2:

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## Mzzkc

http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/archet...9/#post1537963

Under Part 2.

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## MadMonkey

> http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/archet...9/#post1537963
> 
> Under Part 2.



ah duh okay.  :tongue2:

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## Phantasos

Well, now this great article is perfect!  :smiley:

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## Mzzkc

> Well, now this great article is perfect!



Thanks!

And on a side note, I was thinking about trying to apply as a professor and teach a class or two on basic and/or advanced archetype control and it's applications both inside of dreams and out, but I wanted to gauge interest in that before I committed to it. Figured this would be a good place to start that process.

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## MadMonkey

> Thanks!
> 
> And on a side note, I was thinking about trying to apply as a professor and teach a class or two on basic and/or advanced archetype control and it's applications both inside of dreams and out, but I wanted to gauge interest in that before I committed to it. Figured this would be a good place to start that process.



I might be interested.  :smiley:

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## insideout

> I might be interested.



Me too.

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## Enargo

> Thanks!
> 
> And on a side note, I was thinking about trying to apply as a professor and teach a class or two on basic and/or advanced archetype control and it's applications both inside of dreams and out, but I wanted to gauge interest in that before I committed to it. Figured this would be a good place to start that process.



I would also be interested, now if only I can get myself lucid more often, only 1-3 lucids a month isn't too often imo

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## Pistachio

This is quite interesting Mzzkc! I've heard some of the words before but never really had it summed up like that before! Nice. Unfortunatly I don't have the greatest lucidity in dreams either  :Sad:  I like this because it gives one something to think about and actually could be applicable instead of sounding like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo nobody really wants to do. My thing is though is how would you go about doing something you haven't remotely ever done? Is it all just a kind of illusion? A bad example but like if you've never killed someone(or maybe a zombie, wink wink) then how do you know what it feels like? Slightly confused, will read your post again. ::?:

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## Cethulsus

Hah, that's funny. I think just last night I accidentally used an archetype to fly. I play minecraft a lot, so I was trying to fly in my dream so I just hit F and was off the ground in seconds. It all happened so quickly. This looks really useful, thanks!

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## Mzzkc

> This is quite interesting Mzzkc! I've heard some of the words before but never really had it summed up like that before! Nice. Unfortunatly I don't have the greatest lucidity in dreams either  I like this because it gives one something to think about and actually could be applicable instead of sounding like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo nobody really wants to do. My thing is though is how would you go about doing something you haven't remotely ever done? Is it all just a kind of illusion? A bad example but like if you've never killed someone(or maybe a zombie, wink wink) then how do you know what it feels like? Slightly confused, will read your post again.



Well, in most cases you can just use a similar experience you associate with the intended result. For instance, recalling scenes from movies or TV shows in which killing happens. 

An example: I needed to take out an enemy, but my blade wasn't cutting. Calling from a scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail I easily managed to dismember my opponent by swatting at his arms.

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## Mzzkc

> Hah, that's funny. I think just last night I accidentally used an archetype to fly. I play minecraft a lot, so I was trying to fly in my dream so I just hit F and was off the ground in seconds. It all happened so quickly. This looks really useful, thanks!



Yes! This is an excellent example of archetype control and how easy it is to do. All Minecraft players should learn from this, as emulating a button press is by far one of the easiest ways to start flying.

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## Vincent Venatici

Great guide, thank you! I hope it works, I'll get back to you on it's effectiveness. Thank you also, for the dissertation on the effectiveness of belief in dreams, it's very intriguing and explains quite a bit of scenarios where my own confidence (which is simply belief in one's self) was not enough.

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## The Cusp

An important thing to remember when choosing which archetypes you want to work with is that the more stable and well established the archetype, the more reliable the results.  For instance, I don't use my hands for telekenisis very often in my lucids, but I'm exposed to a large variety of fiction where characters use many different powers with their hands.  So when I did try to use hand directed telekenisis in my lucid, it activated the my "hand powers" archetype and I got some random power because the wiring doesn't lead to anything consistent.  I ended up getting Iron Man like spotlights shooting out of my hands.  Not lasers, just spotlights.  I had just recently watched Iron Man.

There are two different "Schools" to working with archetypes.  The first takes a more ritualistic approach.  Working with a limited number of archetypes and archetypal systems, you make them super stable through repetition.  The benefits of this method is that you get pin point accuracy with your results.  The downside is you are limited by your tools, and can find youself in situations where you prepared archetypes are not useful.  This style is much easier to use, even if you don't understand dream control.

The other approach is more free style, where you use whatever is available.  This method lacks precision and can yield chaotic results.  But your options are unlimited, and you don't always need precision.  This style requires a better understanding of working with archetypes, and of how the ritualistic archetypes work, but it's much more flexible.

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## Mzzkc

> Great guide, thank you! I hope it works, I'll get back to you on it's effectiveness. Thank you also, for the dissertation on the effectiveness of belief in dreams, it's very intriguing and explains quite a bit of scenarios where my own confidence (which is simply belief in one's self) was not enough.



If you liked that bit, you should check out my most recent piece in which I try to pull together all current knowledge of dream control into one unifying theory that is applicable to all control.





> An important thing to remember when choosing which archetypes you want to work with is that the more stable and well established the archetype, the more reliable the results.  For instance, I don't use my hands for telekenisis very often in my lucids, but I'm exposed to a large variety of fiction where characters use many different powers with their hands.  So when I did try to use hand directed telekenisis in my lucid, it activated the my "hand powers" archetype and I got some random power because the wiring doesn't lead to anything consistent.  I ended up getting Iron Man like spotlights shooting out of my hands.  Not lasers, just spotlights.  I had just recently watched Iron Man.



Yeah, the stronger, more developed archetypes always give you better, more precise, results than flimsier ones which can often leave you dealing with unintended results. 





> There are two different "Schools" to working with archetypes.  The first takes a more ritualistic approach.  Working with a limited number of archetypes and archetypal systems, you make them super stable through repetition.  The benefits of this method is that you get pin point accuracy with your results.  The downside is you are limited by your tools, and can find youself in situations where you prepared archetypes are not useful.  This style is much easier to use, even if you don't understand dream control.
> 
> The other approach is more free style, where you use whatever is available.  This method lacks precision and can yield chaotic results.  But your options are unlimited, and you don't always need precision.  This style requires a better understanding of working with archetypes, and of how the ritualistic archetypes work, but it's much more flexible.



Good input here. I definitely recommend people get a good taste of both if possible, starting with the more ritualistic control that I tried to introduce in this guide. This way they can have the best of both worlds.

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## DeletePlease

That was really helpful. As for an archetype control class, I might be interested.

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## Zerk

Absolutely Fascinating, don't know how this subject has escaped my view for so long. Very nice guide also.

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## BobbyLance

I've already come across this type of control back then. So there I was, staring at the sky as hundreds of star destroyers were annihilating everything that came across their path. I immediately jumped in this nearby parked X-wing. The view suddenly changed from 1st person to 3rd person view. I took off and started firing at the huge capital ships. I controlled it with the use of this invisible keyboard at the back of my head, using my mind to interact with it. I don't know how to piece it up together cause it's kinda... complicated. All I know is, this control must have been the result of my fondness to SW Battlefront 2.

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