# Sleep and Dreams > Beyond Dreaming >  >  Is astral projection against god's will

## durza2016

I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 

Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.

Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 

Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.

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## 27

I don't think it's ever mentioned in the bible nor can I see any reason it would be a sin.

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## C911

I agree with 27, i dont think it is mentiond in the bible, but here is what i believe.

1. *No* i do not believe it is a sin if you just go out and explore the world with your body. If we have the power to do so, i believe that god intented us to use it, in some way. I do not believe that it is dark arts or anything of that sort, but i could be wrong. I'm not god  :tongue2: 

2. *Yes* however, i do believe it is a sin to Astral Project, if you go into other peoples dreams, cause havoc, or do anything that would disrupt or cause someone grief, (of course without there consent, if they say its ok, then hell i say go for it). Dream Sharing is a widely viewed topic, and i say, if you go into someones dreams to cause a nightmare, or to again cause them grief, then it is a Sin, just like in the normal world. 

Thats what i think, again i'm not god, so who knows.

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## elsoñador

I find it to be extremely absurd to group astral projection as a sin. What exactly are you doing to sin? I'm not a Christian anymore, and I'm definetely not embarking on a campaign to belittle you for your beliefs, but I doubt seriously that Jesus Christ (or any god for that matter) would condemn someone for practicing something that sometimes happens spontaneously to unassuming people....

If you seriously follow the bible, you must understand that subjective interpretation is key when studying it. I refer you to Robert Petersen's book called "Out of Body Experiences: how to have them and what to expect." Here's a link to his free ebook(http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html ) Chapter four should give you some insight.

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## ThePhobiaViewed

I remember my pastor telling me he had an OBE once but never really elaborated. I don't think exploring around is a sin, but what you do while you're exploring could be a sin. I look at it the same way as Lds, you hold yourself to a standard of what you would do IRL and don't go past that (although alot of people don't believe it is a sin because it is an LD, me included). If they are actual experiences that affect other real people rather than dream characters then doing bad things would be a sin.

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## AHiddenSaint

> I don't think it's ever mentioned in the bible nor can I see any reason it would be a sin.



Actually it was left out of the bible. I was watching part of left out of the Bible 2 on history channel one night and it was talking about how Soloman forgive spelling might have used forms of it in communication when he was wise. There is even a refrence I believe to Jesus talking about being like him on certain things mentioned. When Soloman again forgive spelling went crazy was when he stopped listening to the wisedom through dreams and other methods. So if one man is wise because he listens through dreams and other methods then what does that tell you about reaching God through Astral Projection? 

I believe in God due to my experiences dealing with astral projection. When I was on a spiritual path I had more things happen that were a little bit freaky and confusing then most would believe. The only thing is to not develope a God complex like I did. If you open yourself also create safety.   You can pretty much use the astral plane to explore spirituality in itself just be prepared because there are lower beings that will try to confuse while the higher beings will try to help. 

I have no proof that I'm capable of Astral projection other then my personal experiences which I've told in the past. I have worked on astral projection  before, but I do not consider myself full christian. I consider myself part Christian and Part buddhist. If you believe Astral Projection is the path to increasing spirituality then go for it because remember Spirituality is higher then any religion and it can be helped to awake higher beliefs.

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## phoenelai

Were all spiritual beings; we carry some sort of energy into the next level into GODs universe. Why would he damn (or considered a SIN) anyone for exploring his multi-dimensional planes in this infinite universe. Were just leaving our "shells" temporarily for spiritual enlightement.. not sure why that would be bad? I think the old religions consider things such as this as un-natural, witchcraft and work of the devil. Its just plain ridiculous.

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## wer

> I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 
> 
> Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.
> 
> Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 
> 
> Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.



The concepts of religions are quite complicated. If you believe that almost everyone who dies rots in hell for eternity if they don't fallow the Bible then, yeah, astral projection would reach your standards as a sin.

But look at what it is. It is a gateway to the worlds after the next. I don't think we would be able to do it if we were not supposed to, right?

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## blade5x

This is one of the reasons I became Deist. Stupid assumptions from Christians that certain activities are sins and they only say that because someone else told them so.

I feel bad for them - a lot of them truly believe that hell fire exists in the after-life and are just so... I wouldn't say scared shitless... but, so... gah I can't find the word for it!

I say no it isn't. I'd say the same morals apply there as here. You know for yourself what is right and wrong - you don't need others to tell you.

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## Rainman

As a rare occurance as it is, I agree with blade on this one. It's silly to assume that things like this are sins. New things considered as "sin" are just spread around by some fool who thinks he knows what he's talking about, and some gullable group of equally foolish folk.

Let's take a step back from this all and throw common sense in the matter. First you have to ask yourself, why would this be considered sin? You're not violating any of the teachings of the Bible by engaging in out of body travel. All you're doing is traveling in a different way. Now what you DO on the astral planes is different. But the act of astral projection is not against god's will.

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## DarkMind

> I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 
> 
> Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.
> 
> Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 
> 
> Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.



If you use astral projection to help people in a wholsome manner without going against their free will, it is a good thing and not a sin.

Cheers  :Happy:

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## AHiddenSaint

> If you use astral projection to help people in a wholsome manner without going against their free will, it is a good thing and not a sin.
> 
> Cheers



Some might not be able to control what happens though and may have good intensions that get twisted because they aren't advanced enough to fully understand what is happening. Even then you can not say it's a sin, but more part of learning or rising above in order to gain understanding and wisdom. If God is almighty then why does he give us a choice? Wouldn't it be for seen before hand that no matter what happen was meant to happen?

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## U-mos

of cores it is, after all any thing that may posibly lead you to the truth is a sin like thinking or astonamy (jesus life is an alagorial myth of the stars and the sun's movement among them) pretty much any thing other than being a stupid sheep is a sin after all its supposed to keep you in line so dictators can take advantage of you

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## durza2016

good point, no what I really meanis that everyone tells me that astral projection is part of the occult and the bible condems the occult.

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## Rainman

Astral projection is not related to the occult unless you make it to be. The act of projecting is not a sin. What you do once you're in the astral plane is what would determine if it's a sin. It's like asking if walking out of your house is a sin. Of course it's not, but it's possible to do something outside of your house that is a sin.

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## ♥Mark

I read a news story once that someone accidentally astral projected into hell... and got stuck there forever! They had to take in an excorcist to even figure out what had happened!

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## Neruo

I think God does not intent mankind to reach those astral planes, otherwise he would have given his prophets some notion and knowledge of them. It may even be one of Satan's trick. There _Really_ is no way of telling... : /

Bests of luck.

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## Goldney

> I read a news story once that someone accidentally astral projected into hell... and got stuck there forever! They had to take in an excorcist to even figure out what had happened!



True story, I was that guy.

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## ♥Mark

> True story, I was that guy.



This isn't a joke. It's not funny to mock the dead (he died). Imagine if I made 9/11 jokes.

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## durza2016

Okay I'm pretty convinced now that astral projection isn't a sin. 

Also how would they know the guy was in hell. 

And besides how do u know if the exorcist was making it up. Or the news was making it up. You don't know.

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## ♥Mark

> Okay I'm pretty convinced now that astral projection isn't a sin. 
> 
> Also how would they know the guy was in hell. 
> 
> And besides how do u know if the exorcist was making it up. Or the news was making it up. You don't know.



It's the news, Dozla. No syndicated news corporation would risk their income by jeopardizing their station by running fraudulent news stories.

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## durza2016

Oh my god, are you serious dude. First off dolza is orginal so I won't knock you on that. 

Let me give a big example of a news report that turned out to be a lie.

"Iraq has weapons of mass destruction"

Yep so your saying that just because it's on the news it's true...seriuosly are u for real?

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## durza2016

On the August 9 edition of his CNN Headline News program, Beck had declared that August 22 "is the day that Israel might be wiped off the map, leading to all-out Armageddon," and "could be the day that agnostics get down on one knee and start to pray, 'Sweet Jesus, are you coming today?' "

Yep I remember the day in August of 2006 the world ended because I don't. I mean If i'm wrong correct me so. But I have a slight feeling i'm not.

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## Rainman

> Oh my god, are you serious dude.



Hahahaha. I guess you don't know Mark too well huh. Not to say that I do, but you get used to his sense of humour.

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## ♥Mark

> On the August 9 edition of his CNN Headline News program, Beck had declared that August 22 "is the day that Israel might be wiped off the map, leading to all-out Armageddon," and "could be the day that agnostics get down on one knee and start to pray, 'Sweet Jesus, are you coming today?' "
> 
> Yep I remember the day in August of 2006 the world ended because I don't. I mean If i'm wrong correct me so. But I have a slight feeling i'm not.



CNN doesn't count.

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## DarkMind

> I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 
> 
> Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.
> 
> Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 
> 
> Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.



I have another suggestion: Why don't you astral project and ask God yourself? (My sincere advice to you)

Edit: After thinking about it, my advice above is perhaps not a good one, so you may be well-advised to simply ignore it. After all, I am not Enlightened, so I may not act skillfully all the time.

All the best  :smiley: 

(You might also want to read up on the Christian Mystics, and Christian Tantra to answer your question)

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## DarkMind

> Some might not be able to control what happens though and may have good intensions that get twisted because they aren't advanced enough to fully understand what is happening. Even then you can not say it's a sin, but more part of learning or rising above in order to gain understanding and wisdom. If God is almighty then why does he give us a choice? Wouldn't it be for seen before hand that no matter what happen was meant to happen?



You are part Buddhist? How old are you, may I ask?
What Buddhist tradition/s are you inclined towards?

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## durza2016

oh my bad CNN doesn't count. Woops let me find someting else.

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## durza2016

No I'm just christin evangelist infact.. I'm 16.

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## bostonian

I've heard that Astral Projection leaves your physical body open to possession. However, I heard this from the 4am type fundamentalist ministers, so take that with a grain of salt.

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## SammyG

I personally do not believe it is a sin.
However, I do believe that it is a big mistake. As far as I'm concerned, leaving your body is like driving your car into the middle of a city and walking off, leaving the door wide open and keys in the ignition. In other words, you are leaving yourself wide open.

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## durza2016

No offense, but I've done a lot of research on aping and nobody ever gets possesd

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## ♥Mark

> No offense, but I've done a lot of research on aping and nobody ever gets possesd



But how can you know?

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## Michael

Mark, if this person got aped into hell, and died... how did anyone find out? and you think the news never has fraudulant stories? two more questions, are you stupid or were you joking?

EDIT: ROFL i missed the exorcist part. this shit gets funnier and funnier..... you dont gotta answer that last question, i figured it out myself.

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## SammyG

I'm no expert but it may be that some mental problems may actually be caused by posession, not an actuall illness.

Now as i said, I'm no expert but I've heard it said somewhere.

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## durza2016

I agree with Sammy

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## Toxin

I think that it's not good to do it because, by some believing, god gave each one of us a body and leaving it might be considered as evil. Not sure trough...

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## durza2016

I hate when people say that, I've read 1/2 of the bible and From what i've read nothing even mentions Aping. When I asked is aPing a sin I wanted an answer that was backed up with reason. 

By the way god says you have a soul and when you die your SOUL goes to heaven NOT your body. So just saying.

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## Neruo

> No offense, but I've done a lot of research on aping and nobody ever gets possesd



I have done a lot of research, and there is no reason to believe there is a god.

So don't worry.

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## durza2016

i get your point :tongue2:

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## MisterHyde

I don't believe APing is a sin, and I've looked into this a lot.  But I agree that if you AP and go around causing harm, then this is a sin.  What you do in the Astral is no different from what you do here.

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## jaasum

The holy spirit will leave you and then you will cry.

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## durza2016

what? 

whatever

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## SammyG

> I have done a lot of research, and there is no reason to believe there is a god.
> 
> So don't worry.



Look harder.

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## ClouD

> I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 
> 
> Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.
> 
> Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 
> 
> Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.



People believe in "God" in different levels, and some people believe "God" to be different things.
What are your beliefs?
(id be really interested to know  ::seeker::  )

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## ClouD

> I have done a lot of research, and there is no reason to believe there is a god.
> 
> So don't worry.



I have done a lot of research, and there is plenty of reason to believe there is a god.

Unlike the God most people believe in though.

More.., a source.

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## durza2016

This is why I thought this was a touchy topic. Most peopel on this site don't belive in God. I duno know.

This topics more annoying to me than it is informative. So it would be awesome if the mods can delete this topic. Thanks

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## ClouD

> "...Dozla."



Wah? 
not a gaming reference?  :tongue2:

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## ClouD

> I have another suggestion: Why don't you astral project and ask God yourself? (My sincere advice to you)
> 
> Edit: After thinking about it, my advice above is perhaps not a good one, so you may be well-advised to simply ignore it. After all, I am not Enlightened, so I may not act skillfully all the time.



I liked that post. Don't backtrack, you are not enlightened (yet) because you aren't meant(?) to be.

Though i looovve that post... seee i missed it before.

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## durza2016

I keep Aping but I tend to nevr get the vibrations. but i'll be in SP

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## ClouD

> I keep Aping but I tend to nevr get the vibrations. but i'll be in SP



Vibrations aren't anything supernatural..
they happen naturally when we sleep.
They happen when we enter a trance.
We enter a trance when our brain waves switch from alpha to beta.
you might feel dizzy etc.
but if you concentrate on breathing and dont let your thoughts wonder even slightly everything will come easy.

instead of just "forcing" your body into AP, try relaxing all of your muscles first.
Do this by tensing individual body parts, a few times for each muscle. and a couple of full body stretches at the end.

youll instantly feel quite a bit heavier if your not used to it.
but the "real" lead feeling of heaviness comes when you enter the trance.

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## frank_online

> I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 
> 
> Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.
> 
> Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 
> 
> Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.



Ok, well you are entitled to believe in whatever you want I guess, and I can't really say what's right or wrong, at least not in your god's point of view, but I think this is an interesting debate.

First of all though, my position in this is that I don't find any organized religion to be sane or healthy to any extent, but I am a very spiritual person.

I can imagine that Jesus used astral projection to walk on the water. This is something a medium got as an answer when she asked her 'spirit person' about it. I don't know what your position on mediums are, but to me they are more trustworthy than the bible at least.

Also, since there's nothing about astral projection in the ten commandments, then how could it be a sin? What is your defenition of 'occult' anyway?

I looked it up in a dictionary. Here's what I found:

The word occult comes from the latin 'occulere', which means 'to hide from view, cover up', so it's basically a term for things that you can't see or properly understand. By this defenition even your God would be concidered occult, but let's ignore that for now.

In medicine, the term occult means 'present in amounts too small to be visible', and in early science it meant 'not apparent on mere inspection but discoverable by experimentation'.

I suppose the defenition you are referring to is 'of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies', right?

Well then, I guess we'll have to decide if astral projection is a supernatural power or not. That would sort out this issue, right?

Again, with the dictionary, supernatural means:

'of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal' and 'of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or attributed to God or a deity'.

Ok, so this doesn't look good for you, if astral projections are in fact real. For the sake of argument, let's assume that they are, otherwise there is no point in debating this, right?

Since we can't explain astral projection by natural law, it is concidered to be supernatural, and therefore occult, which means it's a sin and you will go to hell for it. On the other hand, hell can't be explained by natural law either, so you will pretty much go to hell just by believing in it, so why not do a little astral projecting anyway just for the heck of it? The good news tough are that since God and dieties are by defenition supernatural also, you'll still end up by His side, even in hell.

Well, that was kind of confusing, now wasn't it? It's kind of ironic that your religion condemns things that can't be explained by natural law, per definition, but I suppose that if you'd like a different answer to this, you should probably not go by the common defenition of 'natural' when defining what 'natural law' means. 'Gods law' would be what you should try to sort out, and the only way that you can do that is by reading the bible.

I went to BibleGateway.com to do some research but I found nothing that said anything even remotely linked to astral projection. It's pretty clear though that christians are commanded to stay away from, and to forsake spiritual experiences which are not the express seeking of only the christian God, and that the spiritual experiences that christians are supposed to seek are only those that agree with what the Bible teaches.

I suppose that if you deny the spiritual experience of your astral projections you could get away with it. Kind of like claiming them to be as much of a spiritual experience as doing your laundry. Try whistling while being separated from your body, that should make it seem kind of casual and innocent. No, I'm just kidding. I think.  :smiley: 

One thing is for sure though. There are a lot of important dreams in the bible, where people gets visited by divine beings and informed of holy messages, and even sees the future, so there's plenty of lucid dreaming going on at least, without anyone being condemned for it. So having lucid dreams seems to be ok, just don't wander off too far I guess. Stay put and you'll be safe.

If I were you though, I'd reconcider my beliefs. I'm not saying God doesn't exist, just that things might not be exactly what the bible claims. I mean think about it. If hell is real and you end up there, why would the devil torture you if you're apparently on his side? If he tortures you for having offended God, then wouldn't the devil be working for God? Wouldn't it be easier for God if he just forced you to as he pleased right from the beginning, instead of giving you the illusion of choice, and then condemning your ass if you fail?

Well, not really looking for a fight here, I just don't understand how you manage to make sense out of the christian belief system, that's all. I suppose that it's all relative, and as long as you don't compare it to anything else, it works. Hm..

/ Frank

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## Jeff777

the belief or thought that it may be against your religeon will hinder your chances of astral success.

I think NOT astral projecting is against god's will.  There, how d'ya like them apples!?!

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## GestaltAlteration

As is with many things... if you think it is a sin, than it is, because your heart is defying what you think is good and pure. Otherwise, you're golden. Go float around town.

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## durza2016

I don't know I don't think it is a sin anymore. Because the Jewish Mystism do it. And belive it or not Christainy and Jewdism are the same. Expect Jews don't belive in Jesus. They do think He was a speical human being though. But they are still waiting for a messiah. But the way the devil doesn't live in hell he lives in heaven. I know it sounds weird.

For instance let's say you were a really good person. God gives everyone freewill including the devil. But god will put imits on what he can do. 

Basically read the book of Job in the bible. I can't really eplain it.

But I was talking to a reiable source that is a christain. and he said it is not considered a sin. What you do in it might be a sin though.

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## SammyG

> Since we can't explain astral projection by natural law, it is concidered to be supernatural, and therefore occult, which means it's a sin and you will go to hell for it. On the other hand, hell can't be explained by natural law either, so you will pretty much go to hell just by believing in it, so why not do a little astral projecting anyway just for the heck of it? The good news tough are that since God and dieties are by defenition supernatural also, you'll still end up by His side, even in hell.



Ok just because something is supernatural doesn't mean that it is evil. God does, however, condemn the occult, and makes it quite plain that it IS evil.





> If I were you though, I'd reconcider my beliefs. I'm not saying God doesn't exist, just that things might not be exactly what the bible claims. I mean think about it. If hell is real and you end up there, why would the devil torture you if you're apparently on his side? If he tortures you for having offended God, then wouldn't the devil be working for God?



I don't think the bible says anything about the devil torturing anyone in hell. He himself will be burning as well. The devil hates all of God's creations, and we are included. He knows he is going to hell, and because he hates us, he is trying to get as many of us on his side as possible so we can share in his fate. The devil is not working for God, he is doing everything he can against him.





> Wouldn't it be easier for God if he just forced you to as he pleased right from the beginning, instead of giving you the illusion of choice, and then condemning your ass if you fail?



Maybe it would, but God gave us a free will. We can do as we please, but if we don't follow him, we go to hell when we die. If we do follow him, we go to heaven. It's really not that complicated.

Also, some advice to everyone. If you are in doubt as to whether something is a sin, stay away from it anyway.

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## GestaltAlteration

God condemning the occult doesn't make it evil. Astrial projection isn't an occult. An occult is an occult.

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## Absolute

Do you realize that occultic practices and magick were commonly taught throughout the empires of Europe before the Holy Mother church (Which is now the Catholic Church) condemned it a sin?

The seven sins were not always in the bible, mind you. It is a flawless design by the great Pagan Emperor Constantine who created a religion that inspired fear among the populace of Europe, and thus keeping everyone under his control.

Religion has blinded the lives of many, and once blinded me. Tell me, what is 'sin'? A mistake, correct? No matter how big or small it is, everyone sins. And if someone were to be raised in say, a family of non-religious people, he/she is going to hell? OR perhaps if a child is raised in a sexually abused environment and thus inflicts a negative impact on the psychosis of the child which in turn creates a psychopathic serial killer. Where's the justice in that? Dice are thrown and anyone who is number (X) and below get thrown into these families and these numbers go there?

Despite that fact, where is the logic of say a person living 27 years of 'sins' and dies, thus staying in hell forever when he dies? Versus another person who dies at 16 and, since he/she didn't live such a sinful life, 'goes to heaven'.

The system is flawed and illogical. One can only learn and experience so much in one life time to only be judged to go up or down somewhere forever, either great pain or pleasure. 

The system of heaven and hell is NOTHING but a fabrication of nonsense by religious leaders. If you do your proper research, you will find about the countless atrocities that the Catholic Church has done to people as well as the bible. Needless to say, if what I say is meaningless you in truth do not know the absolution of the bible because it has been rewritten thousands of times. Maybe once the bible was pure and true to its word and spoke of what is 'really' beyond the afterlife, but now we live in a day full of shadows and lies. 

A religion that places fear among you is not a true spiritual path. Our life isn't meant to "Praise the Lord! Praise Jesus, Praise the father God!" What are we learning? 

Life is about learning the true meaning of unconditional love for all. Not just straight people (and as a sidenote, the spirit has no gender), not just religious people, but for all. Everyone upon this planet is ignorant, and that isn't even enough for ME to damn someone to eternal torment because it is illogical. Every soul can learn, especially in more than one lifetime. I would recommend you reading the stories, documentaries, and studies of what is really beyond death: www.near-death.com At that site, you can read the stories of every individual of all kinds who have died and come back. Homosexuals, celebrities, atheists. And it'll show you how very different it is from modern religious ideals. Then again, you could consider the hundreds of stories shared here to be false. That is entirely up to you. After all, your beliefs creeate your reality.

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## Soul_Sleeper

I don't think any of this matters. 

God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.

(please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)

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## ClouD

> I don't think any of this matters. 
> 
> God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.
> 
> (please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)



*yawn* you stated your opinion without offense, but with great cynicism.

I hope you die.

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## Absolute

> I don't think any of this matters. 
> 
> God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.
> 
> (please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)



Well, it's one thing to say you don't believe in them, it's another to make it seem like your imposing your opinion and stating it as if it is a fact. But nontheless, I am not flaming you. It would've been more appropriate for you to simply state you don't believe in most of this stuff, and if that's being said why are you even taking the time to post in this topic if you do not believe in it?





> *yawn* you stated your opinion without offense, but with great cynicism.
> 
> I hope you die.



Lol, don't get too personal (unless you're being sarcastic about death). Best you can do is hope he inevitably becomes enlightened.  :smiley:

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## Soul_Sleeper

I said not to flame me. 

I think death threats are flames.

My turn: Naruto is for little fruity suburban kids.

That is all.

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## Dream Seal

> I'm always conteplating weather astral projection is against my reiglion or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 
> 
> Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the subjuct and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (pleaze) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral planeing.
> 
> Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 
> 
> Please don't tell my god does't exsit. Your just going to watse your breath.



I'm sure there are accounts of people being in more than one place at once in the Bible. How is this explained? Astral Projection doesn't seem that much different from being in two places at once. Prophecy and Clairvoyancy is also mentioned in the Bible is it not? Surely these things involve a part of you leaving your body.

Sai Baba is a modern day example of someone that could supposedly be in more than one place at once. Is that an advanced form of Astral Projection?

I wouldn't know since I haven't experienced it, but I believe the experience at least is real. I believe that people experience something. Laberge and Green believe that OBEs are Wake Induced Lucid Dreams. If that is true then an OBE is surely not a sin. It is simply a dream.

However, I'm not so convinced. I think they might be more than dreams.

I'm interested to hear from people that have had many lucid dreams (especially WILDs) and also OBEs. I'm interested to know from such people if the OBE experience was clearly different from a WILD. Could you (for example) change the environment around you like you can with a lucid dream?

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## tkdyo

> Well, it's one thing to say you don't believe in them, it's another to make it seem like your imposing your opinion and stating it as if it is a fact. But nontheless, I am not flaming you. It would've been more appropriate for you to simply state you don't believe in most of this stuff, and if that's being said why are you even taking the time to post in this topic if you do not believe in it?



qft.  

If you didnt want to get in a flame war then dont say things in such a way that they are fact.  He distinctly asked that people who dont believe to not try to say these things arnt real, because he has heard it all ready.  So please refrain from sounding like you are right and everyone else is wrong and if you feel the need start your own topic.  

now on topic.  I dont believe it is against Gods will.  As some have stated, anything that is a sin beyond what the bible states is a fabrication that religious leaders have come up with like the elastic clause in the constitution.  I myself am a deist but I think you have a right to find out what exactly goes for or against your religion.

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## durza2016

That is a very good point. Idon't think it's a sin anymore. But I also, can't say that when your in AP you see everything as it normally is. I know AP is real, I've done it. But now i'm trying to figure out if you can go to someone's house. Later wake up and tell them what they were doing. 

I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying I've done AP, but I haven't got that far yet.

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## Absolute

> I myself am a deist but I think you have a right to find out what exactly goes for or against your religion.



Interesting... Pardon my ignorance but I've never heard of a 'deist'. What is it?





> But now i'm trying to figure out if you can go to someone's house. Later wake up and tell them what they were doing.



Mainly it is just visualization. Just imagine the house of the friend you want to go to and picture yourself there. You should 'teleport' there, but be very careful. When you AP, be sure to envision a protective cocoon over you to shield from any entities entering your body. Also, I would recommend simply hovering around your house and outside of it to see how far you can go. Sometimes, some people can not AP the same distance as others and could risk disconnecting their silver cord.

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## TempleGuard

I think it is not against god. If the near-death expirences are  OBE how can this be against GOD? It seems is naturall and i want to know how to do it, but.. It wouild be nice if i had a guide of something like that  :tongue2:  May be i should read at google. Is there a "how to get OBE" thread here?

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## tkdyo

there are a few definistions of a deist...but in general it is someone who believes there is a higher power, but the higher power gave us free will and thus does not directly effect anything in our lives.  So you could say it is just over the believing line from agnostic.  I didnt even know people who think this way were called deist until earlier this year.

Some deist beileve that the higher power has just turned its back on us, but I dont go in to that dark of a thought.  I simply think that if there is any higher power he or she gave us free will and expects us to live in a way that helps others.  No rituals, no anything, just life with all the good and bad it has to offer, it is up to us to make the miracles.

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## Shark Rider

i dont think that Ap is against God's will. simply because some ppl can AP naturally. why should God have given them this ability if its a sin? sitll, i'm not really sure...

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## Absolute

Could a deist be classified as a gnostic (opposite of agnostic)? Or is there a more precise definition of a gnostic?

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## ♥Mark

Seil 4:23
_
"I tell you the truth: Divide not your spirit and body, for this is unholy to you. The LORD has made your spirit for your body and your body for your spirit. Attempt to reach heaven before your time, and you shall be denied it then and for all time."_

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## Michael

^ isn't that referring to suicide? Doesn't matter cuz I dont believe in god anyways.

I cant believe this dude that created this thread didn't capitalize God... you just messed up big time, gods gonna smite you.

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## Absolute

_




The LORD has made your spirit for your body and your body for your spirit. 



By LORD don't you mean Yahweh?_

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## tkdyo

> Could a deist be classified as a gnostic (opposite of agnostic)? Or is there a more precise definition of a gnostic?



as far as I know, you could.  but idk if gnostics believe that the deity(ies) have put their backs to us or not...I guess that is up to the group

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## Jeff777

> I don't think any of this matters. 
> 
> God isn't real and neither is Astral Projection. So it doesn't really matter.
> 
> (please don't flame me for this, I'm an atheist these are just my beliefs and i don't want to get into a flame war with someone right now.)



..........

LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN!!!

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## TempleGuard

> _
> 
> By LORD don't you mean Yahweh?_



By Lord he mean GOD..

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## durza2016

I meant the christan god...jesus...holyspirt....holy trinity... that god.

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## Jeff777

> By Lord he mean GOD..



yahweh is jesus, he goes by yahweh, (jesus, prounounced hey-zeus), jesus, jehova, jehova jira, jehova rapha, jehova niecy, lord, son of man etc...

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## Robot_Butler

> It's like asking if walking out of your house is a sin. Of course it's not, but it's possible to do something outside of your house that is a sin.



I was just going to say exactly this, rainman.

I'm not christian, but why does it matter? I thought the whole point of christianity was that all your sins are forgiven?  Sin away, my friend  :smiley:

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## durza2016

srry, just my limited knowledge on the names of jesus, lead me toa misunderstanding.

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## Absolute

Actually,  Yahweh is the name of God. God and Lord were titles that replaced the name when the Church deemed it too divine to speak and were forcing people to death. The Messiah's name also was not always Jesus (nor is it Yahweh), it was Yahoshuah. J's didn't exist 2,000+ years ago. The name Jesus (also Iesus or Esus) originates from a pagan celtic deity. Strange that the Messiah bears such a relevance to something pagan, especially when J's originated from I's.

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## Sophietju

Maybe you can search through another bible, e.g. look on internet there are many answers though I think you will get many maybe's/no's/yes's.

I'm also Christian but I think that God wouldn't punish me but forgive me for this sin (if it was wrong) because you didn't know, and probably he will show you a sign in your dreams.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~

_Remember everything is possible you just need to work hard for it!!!!!_

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## SammyG

> Seil 4:23
> _
> "I tell you the truth: Divide not your spirit and body, for this is unholy to you. The LORD has made your spirit for your body and your body for your spirit. Attempt to reach heaven before your time, and you shall be denied it then and for all time."_



Where did you get that from???

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## durza2016

Did you just make that up. That book is not even in the bible.

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## durza2016

dude you made that up. If google can't find it....then you made it up.

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## TempleGuard

It is probably by the bible, the "4:23" thing makes me think that way..

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## little nemo

> Seil 4:23
> _
> "I tell you the truth: Divide not your spirit and body, for this is unholy to you. The LORD has made your spirit for your body and your body for your spirit. Attempt to reach heaven before your time, and you shall be denied it then and for all time."_



Tisk, tisk - you should NEVER take anything Mark75 says seriously. It will probably be funny, and usually wicked but never serious.

What does *Seil* spell backwards?! ::chuckle::

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## durza2016

Wow, I feel as though I've been raped of my knowledge...GOOD call...I knew it was fake though because that wasn't a name of a book i've ever heard...and I know a lot of them...good call.

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## Absolute

R 0 F l, he even got the nonbeliever.

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## three and four

Durza,

I think there is a book you would find very interesting. It's called "Beyond the Body, An Investigation of Out-of-the-Body Experiences", by British psychologist Susan J. Blackmore.

The author had her first OBE as a student, and then spent years studying them. All her very interesting thoughts and conclusions are in the book (as well as a history of OBEs, experiments, OBEs in other cultures, etc).

The big question is: does anything actually leave the body during what is called an OBE? Maybe you can do some experiments and tell us what you think!

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## juroara

if a christian is wondering whether or not astral traveling is against Gods wishes, then they should ask themselves why they want to travel, how, and are they ready

the astral realm, in my opinion, while it is thought of as a spiritual realm - it is not thought of as a heavenly realm. any kind of spirit can be there. it's not a 'sin' to be there, but it might not be right either - it depends on the individual.

a lot of human spirits are not so bright. they wouldn't know a deceptive, not so friendly spirit if they saw one. and those obsessed with the supernatural don't always use logic when interacting with another spirit - for example. some people actually listen to the advice that any other spirit will tell them in the astral realm, without first asking did this spirit have their best intentions in mind or not? they don't question, they just assume every spirit in the universe has some truth for them. they don't even question if the spirit was actually just a thought manifestation. imagine listening to the advice a dream character gives us? not so smart

if your spirit knows nothing about the astral realm, then youre like a child running around on the streets - youre simply not supposed to be there. You have no reason to be there. You have no purpose to be there. And nothing good will come out of it.

with that said, in christianity - you have a spirit - you are a spiritual being and you can only connect to God, through spirit. So there is nothing wrong with the desire to be in spirit, journey in spirit, and connect to spirit. You should want to as a christian. The difference here is to not stick around in an astral realm, but actually have a destination - a heavenly realm. experienced travelors will say you don't have to wait till you die to witness it

so the concerned christian, doesn't have to be so concerned as long as they have a good reason for doing so

lucid dreaming is good practice for traveling outside the body. you should take advantage of lucid dreaming to conquer any fear. any fear of the supernatural isn't a good thing to have if you want to deal in it

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## FrYeS

As far as I know the Bible says nothing about OBEs, so I don't think it's a sin.

Plus one of the most amazing OBE stories I ever heard resulted in the man becoming a christian.

Edit: Well said juroura.

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## little nemo

Three & Four,

Does the Blackmore book have any how-to info? Is it at all useful as a practical guide to OBEs?

Nemo

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## Jeff777

> Where did you get that from???



Mark75 is known for causing trouble and stirring up mischief as well as laughs every once and a while.  Think of him as the Loki of Dreamviews.

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## three and four

Hi Nemo,

There is only a small chapter in Blackmores book about actually inducing OBEs. So if you want a how-to-do manual, this is perhaps not what youd be looking for.

Concerning how to actually produce an OBE, Ive yet to be convinced that there is a true difference between what is supposed to happen during an OBE and what can happen during a WILD.

Therefore, any WILD method could maybe just as well be labeled an OBE method... (humm... poll material, I think).

I have another book, called Astral Dynamics, by an Australian called Robert Bruce. Its 500 pages about how to produce OBEs. The problem is that this guy talks a lot of very unverifiable stuff: he goes on and on about levels of astral existence, astral beings, etc. Fine, but its all very esoteric, and I prefer when authors stick to what is a bit more verifiable.

The advantage of the Blackmore book is that shes a renowned and respected scientific author, with a PhD. in psychology, so she tends to talk sense (of which much is needed in this area...).

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## Original Poster

There's no black and white with any subject.  We have the power and its not whether its a sin to use the power, but how we use it.  There is so much evil in the world created by people ignorantly making wrong choices that honestly at this point in the game it doesn't matter what you do as long as you just act out of love.

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## Jellyfish

Which God are we talking about?
The God of the Bible?The God of the Koran?The Norse God Odin?Amun Ra?Osiris?Krishna?Shiva?  ::lol::  ::D:  ::roll:: 
Hundreds of Gods,hundreds of answers.
When it comes to the God of the Bible,no one can possibly know the answer to that question since astral projection isn't even mentioned in the Bible.





> I'm always *conteplating weather* astral projection is against my *reiglion* or not. Then I asked my friend he said it was a sin. And I asked how but he didn't know why. So then for weeks I asked those who read the bible. THey said they didn't know. 
> 
> Finnaly I asked someone with good knowlegde on the *subjuct* and the bible. So He said thaT it's now against god's will but it is dangerous. (*pleaze*) The funny thing is that he never refered to it as astral projection but rather as astral *planeing*.
> 
> Anyway what do u guys think is it a sin or not. 
> 
> Please don't tell my god *does't exsit*. Your just going to *watse* your breath.



No offense,but before contemplating God's will,I think it would be far better for you to concentrate on mundane tasks such as learning to spell properly. :tongue2:  ::roll::

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## durza2016

good point...but the thing is i don't feel like spellinng good. 

Anyways, I mean the christan god. bible-god.

and besides I already told you that, but you only read the first post.

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## Jellyfish

> good point...but the thing is i don't feel like spellinng good. 
> 
> Anyways, I mean the christan god. bible-god.
> 
> and besides I already told you that, but you only read the first post.




Okay.... ::D: 

You've mentioned that some of the people you know think that AP is wrong in God's eyes.
Well,the thing with priests and people who are very religious is...
When you mention the words "astral projection","lucid dreaming" etc. to them,they usually panic
because they're not familiar with the subject,they haven't had any experiences of their own or they've had bad experiences only.
Even ordinary people who haven't astrally projected will be scared or will say that it's impossible.
*People are always afraid of the unknown.*And astral projection is basically getting out of your body...Not something the majority of people today is familiar with. ::D: 
In the medieval ages people (especially priests) were afraid of the things that we consider normal today - for example,performing obductions was considered "devil's business".
You can use a match to light a fire and warm yourself or you can use it to burn entire villages.Nothing's "good" or "bad".AP-ing is simply an ability,it's up to you whether you're gonna use it to hurt people or to,let's say,entertain yourself. ::D: 
This is just my opinion,but I don't think anyone in this world knows the will of God any more than I or you do. ::D: 
Do whatever makes you happy.As long as you hurt nobody,everything's okay. :boogie: 
Doesn't God (whoever He might be) want you to be happy? ::wink::

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## ClouD

> ...Mark75...Think of him as the Loki of Dreamviews.



*Ahem*

Loki, is the scum on the bottom of Mark's shoe.

*cough*at best*cough*.

Mark, is the demon, of Dreamviews.

The persecutor, of the already persecuted.

The shooter, of the trespassing.

The unofficial bullshit moderator of D.V.


_"Hell hath no fury, like Mark75's indomitable scorn"_ - cloudWalker

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## cece23

> I find it to be extremely absurd to group astral projection as a sin. What exactly are you doing to sin? I'm not a Christian anymore, and I'm definetely not embarking on a campaign to belittle you for your beliefs, but I doubt seriously that Jesus Christ (or any god for that matter) would condemn someone for practicing something that sometimes happens spontaneously to unassuming people....



Couldnt agree more.

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## Dreamtheater69

Hello! I'm new to this site today- I'd like to say that I've struggled with this question A LONG LONG TIME AND ASTRAL PROJECTION IS IN THE BIBLE!!!!! There are scriptures that say "whether I. The body or out of the body I know not but.....(went on to tell a vision)" "I was in the spirit on the lords day" "The Lord picked me up and he set me down in the desert and I saw.....(goes on to tell vision)" honestly I think all the visions were by ppl in altered states of consciousness - Ezekiel 1:1-28 (the one ancient aliens says was all about aliens) says stuff like and the creatures (in a vision ofcorse) had wheels within wheels that went up and down the creature- the spirit was in the wheels- toward the end around vs 27- it says and the loins were like fire (well the bottom 3 chakras are yellow orange red) and then it says the whelks were as the color of the bow that is in the clouds after the rain----- as far as a sin- I go by the scripture that states this "if thine eye be single then thy whole body is full of light- BUT IF THINE EYE BE EVIL then thy whole body will be full of darkness and oh what a darkness that is!!!" I believe this is saying it's all about intention- are you USING IT to sin- or are you just using it for love n fun??? I don't know if this helps but I studied it a lot and there are so many more instances it is clear the ppl writing the books of the bible were getting their info from altered states and out of body experiences- sunshine & smiles!!!!!!

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## Sivason

Hi Dreamtheater69. We have a limit on how old of a thread you should respond to. As a rough guide line lets say about a year or so from the latest post. Anyways, this one is 7 years old. I am going to lock the thread. I encourage you to start a new thread on this topic if it intrests you. Welcome to Dream Views by the way. It really would be a great first thread for you to start. Have fun!

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