# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity >  >  Something every LD'er should know, click here.

## Jeff777

Hey guys, this will be pretty short.  From reading over the questions posed to me by many attempting the "Trick your body into fall asleep while keeping your mind awake" method...it's become quite apparent that a majority of the people i'm approached by have similar problems that they can't seem to shake, but in my opinion are the easiest to solve. These problems i'm referring to are as follows...*Attempting to LD at night, how to keep your eyes from moving/opening, how to stop swallowing (or at least how to do it without reseting your internal clock), and the "wave" of Sleep Paralysis.*  Although i've posted some very helpful information to assist you with said information in the aforementioned link, i'll go a bit more in depth here.  :smiley: 

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*Q: Why don't I ever seem to succeed when Ld'ing at night!*
*A:* Because you're doing it...at night.  Look, LD'ing or having an out of body experience without a couple of hours of sleep under your belt is as i've said time and time again "like fighting an uphill battle."  It's not easy, believe me I know...but keep at it.  And to add more credibility to WBTB's i'd like to inform you that 99&#37; of my LD'ing and OBE'ing success has been because i've gotten sleep first and woken up after a few hours, only to go back to bed again.  Don't make it harder on yourself...but if you still don't believe me and you're of the mind "Jeff, wtf do YOU know!! I'm gonna do it wheneva wheneva wheneva I want!".  Fine go ahead.  But let me explain something to you first.  Your body is a chemical producing machine.  It produces certain chemicals to keep us functional on a daily basis.  The chemical responsible for awareness/clarity/consciousness dwindles down through the day from being used and only through sleep can that chemical be increased.  My point being, biologically...it's harder to LD at night.

*Q: My eyes won't stop twitching and moving!  It's hard to keep them closed and whenever I get deeply relaxed...they want to open again!!* ::damnit:: 
*A:* Got a case of the "over-eager and don't want to stay closed eye syndrome?" Copyright Pending.  Sadly folks close-sesame won't work for this.  The thing you MUST understand is that your body is a complex machine...your exterior is physical and there are certain things you must do for/to it if you want it to work in your favor.  Again, i'm coming from a scientific and biological standpoint regarding this matter.  You see the thing about your eyes is that throughout the day they are constantly on the move (this is called "micro-movements"), looking in many many directions, literally moving thousands of times before you turn in for the night.  So your eyes are on redbull, what can you do?  Work WITH the body versus against it.  Before you attempt to do your LD, (If you haven't done a WBTB and you're just doing it straight off) Turn your lights off 30 minutes prior to attempting (Yes, stay in a dark room for 30 minutes...this gives your eye muscles a chance to relax without trying to keep them forced-closed.  This works wonders for me...100% success rate wonders.  A very dimly lit room can work as well, but it's not as effective as total darkness.  I'll illustrate this point in a scenario i'm sure everyone is familiar with.  While in a dark room, sleeping at night...ever had someone come in your room and turn on the light only to find this upsets your eye muscles and you quickly find yourself squinting so as to let as little light in as possible?  Your eyes hurt  just a bit because they have "adjusted" to the darkness, just as they'll have to "readjust" to the light.  If you decide to WBTB before attempting, then the lights off or dimming isn't necessary pre-WBTB, though it is necessary your lights be off when you wakeup...during your WBTB time, keep your lights dim, preferably off.  How important are the eyes you may say?  The eyes don't matter that much you may think?  The eyes are a critical component when it comes down to WILD'ing, whether you're moving your arms or you're moving your eyes...you're still moving and that can halt your chances of success.

*Q: I can't stop swallowing!  Everytime I try and focus on stopping myself from swallowing, I do it even more...it hurts and the saliva wells up in my throat! help!*
*A:* Ah yes, now we're down to the infamous swallowing.  Fold a towel and place it under your head to tilt your head slightly up so that saliva can naturally slide down instead of welling up at the back of your throat.  That's about 30% of the victory when it comes down to not swallowing.  The other 70% is by NOT FOCUSING ON YOUR THROAT.  So many people will tell me "Jeff, I can't help it...I tried so hard not to swallow but then..."  Energy flows where attention goes and attention goes where energy flows.  What's that mean?  That means the more you focus/direct your thoughts to something, the more you're going to increase that things chances of occuring.  Sort of like the law of attraction.  I had the hugest problems with trying "not to swallow"...but that only ended up in me doing it more and more.  Focus/direct your thoughts to something else...monitor your body passively and let it do it's job without you focusing on every aspect of what's going on...what job is that? (TO GO TO SLEEP)  :wink2:  When I stopped focusing on my throat and tilted my head up...swallowing when attempting a WILD was never a problem for me again.  In the end, if you have to swallow...let it be something that's natural where you almost don't notice it...instead of consciously debating in your mind when the urge presents itself, whether you're going to or not.

*Q: I've never felt a "wave of energy" when attempting, i'm a failure!*
*A:* And you very well may never feel this "wave" i've heard so many talk about.  I can recall only experiencing this "wave" once when transitioning into sleep paralysis.  In my experiences with sleep paralysis...i've sunken through my bed, felt this "wave" of energy, felt vibrations, heard very loud beating on my bedroom door, and heard horrible blood-curdling screams right outside my bedroom door.  These are (but not limited to) what you may experience.  The buzzing sensation, ringing/roaring in the ear, and music being played are things that are a common occurrence during sleep paralysis...though i've never experienced them.  Point made.

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To each and every one who has been trying and progressing (And by progressing, I mean learning more and applying what you're learning to change the results you're getting; eventually yielding better ones) I'm proud of you and through persistence and competence...I don't doubt that we will eventually reach our goal of being able to LD/OBE on demand.  :Clap: 

I hope this helps.

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## Abra

I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it _actually_ matter?

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## Clairity

Oneironaut_Jeff777, great post!  ::goodjob2::

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## Jeff777

> I can't wait to hear what you have to say!
> 
> As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it _actually_ matter?



Hi Abra  :smiley:   The swallow reflex _can_ be troublesome if you let it get to that point.





> Oneironaut_Jeff777, great post!



Thanks Clairity  ::lol::

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## Sniper991122

My problem is in controlling the wave that you speak of... if I do wbtb I can feel that wave almost everytime I wake up and go back to sleep and usually in a matter of 4-5 seconds. It also has a sound like my ears are about to pop or something is closing in on me. The only problem I have is that I'm aware of the wave and I move my eyes slightly taking me to a higher level of consciousness. Eventually I just end up passing out without 'staying up'


what can I do to embrace the sleep paralysis?

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## Jeff777

By doing just that, "embracing it".  Don't move your eyes.

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## The Question

WOAH! Great post! This covers basically all the questions iv seen about this! Good work man, il try this again tonight!

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## awesomeoclock

I tried this last night, but started to let my mind fall asleep a little, and then right before I was about to pass into full sleep, my body had a huge jolt/twitch, and I ended up really hurting my neck... Then I couldn't get back to sleep for over two hours. :Eek:  Also, for a few seconds after the twitch, I didn't open my eyes, and it felt really tingly, and I felt like I was looking really, really deep into empty space.

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## Jeff777

wow, that's some muscle twitch...

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## sea bee

Oneironaut Jeff777:
Thanks for the great posting and valuable information. If I may question you regarding what is called "false awakening."? I have the salt-cube CD and found it great.  It also discusses "false awakenings" too.  But somehow I still don't understand what they are? How are they different than being in a normal dream.  I don't have a clear understanding of the two.  Are you still dreaming during this time? 
Thanks for any help.  Best,  sea bee  (a sailor forever)  

 difference between the two.

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## Oneironaught

As far as swallowing goes: just swallow and don't worry so much about it. If you don't waste time and focus worrying about it it won't matter at all, meaning it won't affect your efforts in the very least.

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## KuRoSaKi

This is one of the more helpful posts I have seen come up lately. Thanks for the helpful information I'm sure it will help a lot of people.

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## Mman19

Yeah, the thing that is the most annoying for me is when I get itchy when I'm trying a WILD. It pretty much ruins it.

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## Jeff777

> Oneironaut Jeff777:
> Thanks for the great posting and valuable information. If I may question you regarding what is called "false awakening."? I have the salt-cube CD and found it great.  It also discusses "false awakenings" too.  But somehow I still don't understand what they are? How are they different than being in a normal dream.  I don't have a clear understanding of the two.  Are you still dreaming during this time? 
> Thanks for any help.  Best,  sea bee  (a sailor forever)  
> 
>  difference between the two.



_Taken from Wikipedia_
A false awakening is an event in which someone dreams they have awakened from sleep. This illusion of having awakened is very convincing to the person. After a false awakening, people will usually dream of performing daily morning rituals, believing they have truly awakened. A dream in which a false awakening takes place is sometimes colloquially referred to as a "double dream", or a "dream within a dream".

I hope that helps if not let me know and i'll go in depth for you.  :smiley:

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## DreamChaser

This is why I focus on a different place or room to start my dream in.
Why is it so important to start your dream from your bed in your room? 
It creates so many more problems and questions to deal with than is already needed in this process.
You have the universe to be at, yet many want to be in their boring room.

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## Jeff777

> This is why I focus on a different place or room to start my dream in.
> Why is it so important to start your dream from your bed in your room? 
> It creates so many more problems and questions to deal with than is already needed in this process.
> You have the universe to be at, yet many want to be in their boring room.



The bedroom is a place where many people can relax and are more familiar with, and thus attribute feelings of peace and serenity to the bedroom.  It is very good that you do not need this as a crutch but others do, and there is nothing wrong with that.

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## Xaqaria

> This is why I focus on a different place or room to start my dream in.
> Why is it so important to start your dream from your bed in your room? 
> It creates so many more problems and questions to deal with than is already needed in this process.
> You have the universe to be at, yet many want to be in their boring room.



Also with WILD's, sometimes its just a matter of your bedroom being the last thing you saw awake, so it becomes the first thing you see when you open your dream eyes.

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## DreamChaser

> Also with WILD's, sometimes its just a matter of your bedroom being the last thing you saw awake, so it becomes the first thing you see when you open your dream eyes.



Maybe I should get on that wagon. Missed a LD this morning.
Tried WILDING for 90 mins and finally gave up and fell asleep.
Looking at my room is my next quest.
Any tips for the future if you wake up and can't get back to sleep after RCing and stating the normal chants?

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## Jeff777

> Maybe I should get on that wagon. Missed a LD this morning.
> Tried WILDING for 90 mins and finally gave up and fell asleep.
> Looking at my room is my next quest.
> Any tips for the future if you wake up and can't get back to sleep after RCing and stating the normal chants?



Usually if I've woken up too much and I find myself unable to go back to sleep when it's time to WILD, I will layoff the technique(s) and just try and fall asleep in the regular way I would until I feel sleepiness setting in (It's important to keep your clarity/awareness passive) then I will go back to the technique now that being sleepy is no longer a problem.

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## blakkin

The only thing I notice as I relax when trying to wild is light. I see purply-whitish swirls float around, and fade out, and thats what i focus on.

Anyway, I was looking at these... and I felt a distinct like... shift, i guess. I was looking at them, and all of a sudden... it felt like I was deep in them and they were all around me. It felt darker... blacker... and just like deep. it was really weird. What was that?

Also, twice, I've had my eyes move around under my eyelids when trying to wild. But its not at the start, like you seem to be saying... it happens as I feel more numb, relaxed, and closer to SP. All of a sudden, they start freaking out... hugely. The first time I tried, it felt like one of my eyes went in a full circle. i can't possibly keep my eyelids closed, they get forced open. Any advice?

Thanks for this thread  :smiley:

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## Jeff777

> The only thing I notice as I relax when trying to wild is light. I see purply-whitish swirls float around, and fade out, and thats what i focus on.
> 
> Anyway, I was looking at these... and I felt a distinct like... shift, i guess. I was looking at them, and all of a sudden... it felt like I was deep in them and they were all around me. It felt darker... blacker... and just like deep. it was really weird. What was that?
> 
> Also, twice, I've had my eyes move around under my eyelids when trying to wild. But its not at the start, like you seem to be saying... it happens as I feel more numb, relaxed, and closer to SP. All of a sudden, they start freaking out... hugely. The first time I tried, it felt like one of my eyes went in a full circle. i can't possibly keep my eyelids closed, they get forced open. Any advice?
> 
> Thanks for this thread



Hello blakkin! thanks for stopping by  :smiley:   To answer your first question regarding the purplish white things you see in your closed eyes...I would have to say it's H.I.  (Hypnagogic Imagery).  It sounds dead-on to H.I. actually.

And before I answer your second question let me ask you a question first.  Have you done the method I recommended for energetic eyes?

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## samorau

Hi jeff! i've been trying this couple of times and every time i fail. the problem is not staying still, the problem is what's happening after 30-45 min of stayin still. my whole body goes crazzy, tears are commin from my eyes and i feel weakness troughout body. i can overcome that but then happens something really wierd... i can't feel my body anymore exept head and arms, the rest of the body is totally numb. whole body, from feets to neck is up in the air. i know it's not really but i feel it that way. and i can't fell asleep. whats the problem, am i doing something wrong here? 

help pls!

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## Altair

> Hi jeff! i've been trying this couple of times and every time i fail. the problem is not staying still, the problem is what's happening after 30-45 min of stayin still. my whole body goes crazzy, tears are commin from my eyes and i feel weakness troughout body. i can overcome that but then happens something really wierd... i can't feel my body anymore exept head and arms, the rest of the body is totally numb. whole body, from feets to neck is up in the air. i know it's not really but i feel it that way. and i can't fell asleep. whats the problem, am i doing something wrong here? 
> 
> help pls!



This happens to me too except it happens a lot sooner than 30 mins. I always thought this was my body making me unconfortable but maybe that's me in SP? Anyway I can never go to sleep like that and my mind always has some way of convincing me that I'll never sleep like that so I move  :Sad:  I think it just takes a lot of willpower. If I stay like that long enough though, I no longer become aware of my body at all, I feel enclosed in my mind.

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## Jeff777

> Hi jeff! i've been trying this couple of times and every time i fail. the problem is not staying still, the problem is what's happening after 30-45 min of stayin still. my whole body goes crazzy, tears are commin from my eyes and i feel weakness troughout body. i can overcome that but then happens something really wierd... i can't feel my body anymore exept head and arms, the rest of the body is totally numb. whole body, from feets to neck is up in the air. i know it's not really but i feel it that way. and i can't fell asleep. whats the problem, am i doing something wrong here? 
> 
> help pls!



Try doing a relaxation exercise before your attempts.  Breathing exercises work wonders for me and I suggest you try one as well.  Also do not forget, it's very important to stay calm throughout your experience.   :smiley:

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## pepsibluefan

My problem is, I feel creeped out in my room. I'm sorry but its just flate out creepy at night and I end up not doing it because I feel uncomfortble.

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## Jeff777

> My problem is, I feel creeped out in my room. I'm sorry but its just flate out creepy at night and I end up not doing it because I feel uncomfortble.



You can either muster the strength to get over your fear and do it in your room, or do it early on in the evening in another part of your house...perhaps by sitting in a recliner or lying on a couch.

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## rockinred

Thnx ALOT for the tips on keeping your eyes still. I find that that is my biggest problem. Alot of people seem to have trouble with the swallowing thing but not me ::D:  i drewl alot though ::lol::

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## Arch0n

First attempt proved fruitless, plus I got that wave of uncomfortableness (I know, not a word) 3 times in a row, it was not pleasant...

I actually went close to SP when I fell asleep, but then I awoke and I WAS in SP. Unfortunately, I couldn't delve back into my dreams. And I had to get up to talk to my dad afterwards.

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## Jeff777

> First attempt proved fruitless, plus I got that wave of uncomfortableness (I know, not a word) 3 times in a row, it was not pleasant...
> 
> I actually went close to SP when I fell asleep, but then I awoke and I WAS in SP. Unfortunately, I couldn't delve back into my dreams. And I had to get up to talk to my dad afterwards.



It sounds as if you are making *excellent* progress Arch0n, keep at it!  ::D:

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## rockinred

Ok so I've been trying for a few nights now to do this and I'm finding it very hard to keep my mind awake. Will it still work if I'm doing something in my head to keep my mind awake? e.g Sing a song in my head. Also I'm not intentionally moving my eyes but they're moving by themselves. Would this be like swallowing, its ok if your not thinking about it? 	 ::thanks::

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## Jeff777

> Ok so I've been trying for a few nights now to do this and I'm finding it very hard to keep my mind awake. Will it still work if I'm doing something in my head to keep my mind awake? e.g Sing a song in my head. Also I'm not intentionally moving my eyes but they're moving by themselves. Would this be like swallowing, its ok if your not thinking about it?



Doing simple things to keep your mind awake is recommended.  As far as your eyes moving uncontrollably...I'm not sure that is entirely possible unless you have some sort of medical condition.

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## ldseeker

i tried this technique so many times, but all i get is the tinglly sensation. My leg gets really heavy. I i don't know you mean by a wave.

I tried it last time and it felt like i was melting into the bed ( also heard a high frequency sound for a second ). Then it kept on repeating it self.

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## Vomit

Awesomeness. Thanks!

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## LePeL

> Ok so I've been trying for a few nights now to do this and I'm finding it very hard to keep my mind awake. Will it still work if I'm doing something in my head to keep my mind awake? e.g Sing a song in my head. Also I'm not intentionally moving my eyes but they're moving by themselves. Would his be like swallowing, its ok if your not thinking about it?



I'm not sure whether this goes for everyone, but I find it very easy to stay awake with a little bit of music on (mp3 player). Actually, it's almost impossible for my mind to fall asleep when there's music. It also makes the whole thing less boring and provides a distraction when needed (don't get too distracted though).

I'm not sure whether having music could hinder your WILD, but I don't think so. I haven't had a succesful one yet, but got pretty close to SP a few times and the best ones were with music on.

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## LePeL

My own problems seam to mainly concern breathing.

For you guys who did this succesfully - do you breathe through your nose or through your mouth?

Anyway, the problem I always have is that when a 'wave' of heavyness occurs I can't seem to breathe. My chest sort of gets pressed down, breathing becomes more shallow until it stops completely - I have to stop to get some air. Any tips on this?

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## psychology student

This technique sounds helpful. I will try it tonight.

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## evan56780

i fell like such a retard for saying this for about the 3rd time, but what do you do with your eyes? do you keep them closed, if not how do you not blink? and how dose wild help you lucid dream? (that last question is new im just very curios. sorry for being so repetitive, im a newb i know... lol

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## DreamChaser

> i fell like such a retard for saying this for about the 3rd time, but what do you do with your eyes? do you keep them closed, if not how do you not blink? and how dose wild help you lucid dream? (that last question is new im just very curios. sorry for being so repetitive, im a newb i know... lol



I have researched where your eyes sit when dreaming/sleeping.
They tend to roll to an upward position.
Close your eyes and roll them upwards as high as possible, but still comfortable and the least movement. This position will minimise flutter if you hold it and relax.
I have found when awaking and semi-lucid that this is where the eyes sit.

It makes good sense to sit them there when attempting any Lucid exercises.
It simulates to your body you are asleep or ready to dream.

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## TheMoon

> I can't wait to hear what you have to say!
> 
> As far as swallowing, I can go for at least an hour without swallowing. Sometimes I'll swallow with no concious thought, and feel like I've somehow just screwed myself up... But does it _actually_ matter?



Ive found that i can swallow and it messes nothing up.

If you need to swallow try it, but right after you do swallow, completely go back to being relaxed, relax your throat and completely stop thinking about your throat as well. Act completely like you didn't just swallow and nothing happened  :smiley:

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## moonshine

The eyes thing is interesting. Eyes move whilst your in REM sleep.
Sufferers of SP find they can move nothing but they're eyes. 

In which case is it really neccesary to try and keep your eyes from moving when your 
attempting to WILD?

Opinions please?

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## Adam24

Last night when i was trying a WILD i didnt feel the wave, although i have before, but i did hear a very high pitched constant noise which wavered almost as if it was was circling around and around my head. 

Wasat?

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## aioinae

I attempted WILD for the first time a few hours ago. After maybe 15 minutes of lying completely still, resisting every urge to move the slightest bit or swallow, I saw a little HI (some guy saying something, I forget) and light patterns and felt a sort of slow buzz (not really a "wave") come over mostly my lower body, along with this feeling of a huge weight on my chest and stomach area... then some loud car drove by outside and I got distracted.  :Pissed: 

Thanks Jeff777 for your methods and tips, I'm sure I'll get it soon if I follow them carefully and those damn cars'll stfu  ::D:

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## moonshine

> The eyes thing is interesting. Eyes move whilst your in REM sleep.
> Sufferers of SP find they can move nothing but they're eyes. 
> 
> In which case is it really neccesary to try and keep your eyes from moving when your 
> attempting to WILD?
> 
> Opinions please?



Would be most interested in gauging opinions on this one. 
Cos if I don't have to concentrate to keep my eyes locked in place, wilding would be a lot easier I think.

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## Jeff777

> i fell like such a retard for saying this for about the 3rd time, but what do you do with your eyes? do you keep them closed, if not how do you not blink? and how dose wild help you lucid dream? (that last question is new im just very curios. sorry for being so repetitive, im a newb i know... lol



I do apologize for getting to this thread so late  :Oops: .  Don't feel bad for asking this question...it's a fairly common one.  I too had a great deal of misconceptions about how to induce an LD when starting out just like many more people still have.  So you're far from alone on this one.  To answer your question, you have to keep your eyes closed.  Remember, your body is going to sleep...it's only your mind that stays awake.





> The eyes thing is interesting. Eyes move whilst your in REM sleep.
> Sufferers of SP find they can move nothing but they're eyes. 
> 
> In which case is it really neccesary to try and keep your eyes from moving when your 
> attempting to WILD?
> 
> Opinions please?



Yes, it is necessary to keep them still while attempting a WILD.  The only difference between those in REM, those in SP, and those who are attempting without being in either starting off is that those who are in REM and SP's bodies are _already_ asleep..._then_ their eyes will dart and move about.  Your body must be asleep still before this process of unconscious rapid eye movement happens.





> Last night when i was trying a WILD i didnt feel the wave, although i have before, but i did hear a very high pitched constant noise which wavered almost as if it was was circling around and around my head. 
> 
> Wasat?



Sounds like auditory hallucinations via Hypnagogia.  Hypnagogia is the prequel to Sleep Paralysis and Sleep Paralysis is the prequel to WILD's  :smiley: .  Continue on full steam ahead  ::D: .





> I attempted WILD for the first time a few hours ago. After maybe 15 minutes of lying completely still, resisting every urge to move the slightest bit or swallow, I saw a little HI (some guy saying something, I forget) and light patterns and felt a sort of slow buzz (not really a "wave") come over mostly my lower body, along with this feeling of a huge weight on my chest and stomach area... then some loud car drove by outside and I got distracted. 
> 
> Thanks Jeff777 for your methods and tips, I'm sure I'll get it soon if I follow them carefully and those damn cars'll stfu



You're more than welcome  :smiley:  should you have any additional questions feel free to ask.  Please keep us updated with your progress  :boogie: .





> Would be most interested in gauging opinions on this one. 
> Cos if I don't have to concentrate to keep my eyes locked in place, wilding would be a lot easier I think.



Concentrating on keeping your eyes locked in place is what will keep you from WILD'ing.  It should be a passive thing.

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## moonshine

> Yes, it is necessary to keep them still while attempting a WILD.  The only difference between those in REM, those in SP, and those who are attempting without being in either starting off is that those who are in REM and SP's bodies are _already_ asleep..._then_ their eyes will dart and move about.  Your body must be asleep still before this process of unconscious rapid eye movement happens.



But its not unconscious is it?
In SP you are in fact awake and looking at the real world, albeit with imaginary extras like the often described hag or whatever. 
In this state you can freely look around without breaking SP.

Its probably not unconscious in dreaming either. After all in your dream you are making a conscious decision to look at certain imaginary objects. 
The muscles in your eyes move to reflect this. They are not effected by SP.

Do you see what I'm getting at. 

I'm not saying I'm right. And I'm sure you can wild when keeping your eyes still. But I'm not sure you can't if you let your eyes move freely.

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## DreamChaser

> But its not unconscious is it?
> In SP you are in fact awake and looking at the real world, albeit with imaginary extras like the often described hag or whatever. 
> In this state you can freely look around without breaking SP.
> 
> Its probably not unconscious in dreaming either. After all in your dream you are making a conscious decision to look at certain imaginary objects. 
> The muscles in your eyes move to reflect this. They are not effected by SP.
> 
> Do you see what I'm getting at. 
> 
> I'm not saying I'm right. And I'm sure you can wild when keeping your eyes still. But I'm not sure you can't if you let your eyes move freely.



I agree with moonshine.
Our eyes may move in rhymic time to our dream or body rhythm.
Or they may move along with the dreams movement.

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## evan56780

thanks jeff for the reply  :smiley: . i cant wait to have my first wild
_______________________
{} have anothe lucid dream
{/} attemt WILD
{} become orange jucie
sorry about spelling  ::?:

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## Jeff777

> But its not unconscious is it?
> In SP you are in fact awake and looking at the real world, albeit with imaginary extras like the often described hag or whatever. 
> In this state you can freely look around without breaking SP.
> 
> Its probably not unconscious in dreaming either. After all in your dream you are making a conscious decision to look at certain imaginary objects. 
> The muscles in your eyes move to reflect this. They are not effected by SP.
> 
> Do you see what I'm getting at. 
> 
> I'm not saying I'm right. And I'm sure you can wild when keeping your eyes still. But I'm not sure you can't if you let your eyes move freely.



I'm not sure what you are getting at.  So I'll say this...If you feel you can WILD better while moving your eyes (not keeping them still) then by all means shoot for the moon.  I'd be interested in hearing how your results play out.   :smiley:

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## moonshine

> I'm not sure what you are getting at.  So I'll say this...If you feel you can WILD better while moving your eyes (not keeping them still) then by all means shoot for the moon.  I'd be interested in hearing how your results play out.



Tricky as I haven't had a lot of success either way.
It would be interesting to hear what other experienced WILDers have to say.

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## brianG

just a quick question.. I tried a WILD but failed last night. While getting towards the point of SP certain parts of my body would twitch unintentionally. I think I have read somewhere before that this is normal but id like to be reassured.

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## Jeff777

> just a quick question.. I tried a WILD but failed last night. While getting towards the point of SP certain parts of my body would twitch unintentionally. I think I have read somewhere before that this is normal but id like to be reassured.



This is normal.

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## Paradox-db3

Yeah, I had a major head twitch once!  It feels weird!  My head 'jumped' and moved positions!

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## brianG

It was quite freaky for a new comer like myself! But nevertheless quite amusing

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## frogeyes

So I sort of inadvertently tried this last night, as I've become really interested in lucid dreams again.
I found a description of a meditation technique and it was basically this, I'll list my experiences:

.I lay down and relaxed my whole body 
.I then concentrated on just breathing with my diaphragm and keeping my stomach still
.After a while a wave of heat came over my body and with a tingling sensation
.Other things also happened such as my arms started to feel like they were disappearing, but every time something like this happened I got excited and couldnt control my breathing and then it would start to fade
.At one point I started focusing on the spots on my eyes, when I did this my head started to feel like it was spinning and vibrating
.I also kept getting twitches throughout my body
.After about half an hour I felt like I should get up, I didnt know about resisting this, so I did.



Is this sort of common for the first attempt? I'm going to try again tomorow morning when I first wake up from deep sleep.

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## slash112

Very good explanations behind things. I liked that.

But I don't think I have any of those problems. I really don't even know what my god damn problem is.

But this was still interesting, there were things behind those things that I didn't know at first.

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## MythicDreams

I was getting more confidence to do this, and then I read about bloodcurdling screams.
Wtf, no way am I doing something where I might hear people screaming. That would give me nightmares.
Yikes.

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## Mancon

Thank you, Jeff!

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## hockey833

Two things,

1.
You didn't fully explain your eyes "re-adjusting to light" and I believe you may have the wrong conclusion. That topic covers twitching eyes but the process of switching from Daytime to Nighttime Vision has nothing to do with the twitching of the eyeballs. It deals with the pupils. During the Night your pupils get increasingly larger so that they can let more light in and see more. When you suddenly turn a light on from a dark environment your pupils are large and let all this light into your retina which hurts. 
Not sure if you or others knew that but if you didn't than there you go.


2. When I experience the wave of SP, I dont go into SP....The "wave" of SP wakes me up and i snap out of it real quick. I am not afraid of it but its kinda just random and quick and so it wakes me up.

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## Lucid fanatic

QUESTION! Is it unusual that if I sit in the one spot for any unnecessary amount of time (or lie for that matter) I get ridiculously uncomfortable. Even when just lying down to go to bed, I feel really off, the way my ribs expand and contracts just creeps me out. I try to sit it out but its very frustrating. However, the principle to this is the same as swallowing, the more thought you put into it, the more uncomfortable you get. I usually have to focus heavily on my imagination just so I don't freak out. Even in saying that, its bearable once I don't focus on it, its not like a severe condition or anything.

P.s. I'm confident that this isn't my body testing me. (I feel that later on) This happens all the time :S

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## Nefarious

I had a WILD once but it didn't involve SP. I tried to WILD like in the tutorials and after an hour or so I gave up. I turned from the back position to my natural side position and tried to take a nap. After a few moments I felt I could move my legs without moving them a very cool feeling. So I started moving them like I'm walking and splash I see myself walking on a sidewalk at night fully conscious of my transition to the dream. The night thing was cool because I went to sleep in the afternoon.

The WILD only worked when I stopped focusing on everything and waiting for something to happen. It only worked when I gave up. And it's much easier to stop focusing on everything when you are in your natural position.

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## PercyLucid

Nice, awesome posts.

My HH are a little creepy, but I like them  :smiley:   They never scared me.  I usually hear voices and deeper, I can feel like someone speaking into my ear, I even feel it.  I can't understand the voices but I'm OK with them.  I also feel like micro-dreams... like if I would fall into a dream without dreaming... the images would flash my mind and I would hear noises, but I was certain I was not sleep, they pass and I return to nothingness but only sounds.

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## Bizarre Jester

I'm going to take your advise about elevating my head with a towel. The swallowing is my biggest problem with Wild.

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## djonkoman

very usefull, the swallowing is my issue to, after about an hour I can't keep myself from swallowing anymore
but doing it after a few hours of sleep was a total failure for me, since I'm very unclear then and the only thing I can think of is sleep, while the time I go to sleep on days I have to go to school falls perfectly together with my peak in clarity and awakeness(wich makes it takes longer then others to fall in a normal sleep, but wil finally pay off with this I hope)(normally I'm drowsy and unclear in the moring, getting awake in the afternoon, getting clearer in the evening wich begins to really progress after 11 hour, with the peak in clarity from 12-3 or so)

btw, I experienced almost all feelings/sensations you say related to SP :Cheeky:  and that in only 2 nights(only the music/voices not)

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## Ethereal

Just to clarify: Jeff stated that you need to sleep beforehand to Lucid Dream; what he meant was, you need to WBTB to have a *WILD,* but not any other type.

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## bored2tears

People who are having trouble with swallowing should try putting their tongue against there top teeth. It can be softly. I recently read someone saying they did this to stop swallowing, and I been doing it for two hours straight. I normally swallow a lot, but this doesn't make me swallow!!

Be prepared, as you will drool... A LOT.

I think I may have been close to SP, as my hand started to randomly twitch.

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## Dreampainter

> My own problems seam to mainly concern breathing.
> 
> For you guys who did this succesfully - do you breathe through your nose or through your mouth?
> 
> Anyway, the problem I always have is that when a 'wave' of heavyness occurs I can't seem to breathe. My chest sort of gets pressed down, breathing becomes more shallow until it stops completely - I have to stop to get some air. Any tips on this?



I have the same problem.

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## Codename

Jeff, wtf do YOU know!! I'm gonna do it wheneva wheneva wheneva I want!

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## Jeff777

> Jeff, wtf do YOU know!! I'm gonna do it wheneva wheneva wheneva I want!



+2 internets if you get the reference.   :tongue2:

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## Reclypso

The wave is the chemical that creates SP going through your body  :wink2:

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## Duffman

> My own problems seam to mainly concern breathing.
> 
> For you guys who did this succesfully - do you breathe through your nose or through your mouth?
> 
> Anyway, the problem I always have is that when a 'wave' of heavyness occurs I can't seem to breathe. My chest sort of gets pressed down, breathing becomes more shallow until it stops completely - I have to stop to get some air. Any tips on this?



    Same! It's so weird, and frustrating.

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## Crucide

> Just to clarify: Jeff stated that you need to sleep beforehand to Lucid Dream; what he meant was, you need to WBTB to have a *WILD,* but not any other type.



You dont have to I know many people who have done it without sleep. But it helps so much to a point where its almost nescesary.

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## DynoTAP

> Ok so I've been trying for a few nights now to do this and I'm finding it very hard to keep my mind awake. Will it still work if I'm doing something in my head to keep my mind awake? e.g Sing a song in my head.



Every few breaths, scream in your head, "I'm aware! I'm aware! I'm aware! I'm aware!",  in order to keep yourself... aware as you go deeper into sleep paralysis. When you feel you have achieved full sleep paralysis, do this only when you feel like you're drifting off.

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## gotbeef

Hi  I'm new to LD but i kinda tried half-heartedly a few months ago. I'm really trying to get committed now, I have a dream Diary and stuff but ive only started trying to LD again in the past week. Anyway i've been trying to use the WILD method as well as the MILD method. Neither has worked for me so far. But i'm mainly concerned about the WILD technique. While doing this i often have the need to swallow, (I read the top post so i no know how to counter that but have not yet put it to the test) but it is not necessarily a urge to swallow. It's not the saliva that is the problem. I just have a very powerful urge to use those muscles in a sort of swallowing action, but never have the need to actually swallow the saliva. It is defiantly a problem because i can put it off for about twenty seconds but the urge becomes so strong... its very hard to stop :/ also I often become close (at least it feels close) to allowing my body to fall asleep (still using WILD) and i feel a "wave" and this wave makes me feel as if im spinning. I try to hold on to it and embrace it, but it only lasts for a matter of seconds and then it just leaves. This feeling can happen up to 15 times and they can be very close together. I never actually drift into a conscious/dreaming state. 
Any help with this topic would be greatly appreciated
thank you very much  :smiley:

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## Wurlman

Thank you so much jeff! I'm hoping ur swallowing Tec. Will help it seems to b this is the only th

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## Wurlman

Thank you so much jeff! I'm hoping ur swallowing Tec. Will help it seems to b this is the only thing that is holding me back from secsessfull WILD WBTB attempts

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