# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  Mancon's In Depth WILD Guide

## Mancon

Hey everyone, I have been practicing WILD for a while now, and pretty much have it down, Mostly thanks to Naiya and the helpful guides here on the site! Now I want to make my own WILD guide to help you guys! Let's jump right into it:

 Abbreviations you should know:

WILD = Wake Initiated Lucid Dream
SP = Sleep Paralysis
HH = Hypnotic Hallucinations 

*What is a WILD? +Other definitions*

A WILD is a wake initiated lucid dream, but what does that mean? It means you go directly from waking state into the dream state. You trick your body into thinking you're asleep, but really you are awake! 

What is Sleep Paralysis? Sleep paralysis is when your body becomes temporally paralyzed so you don't act out your dreams! During a WILD, when you reach sleep paralysis you often see HH.

What are Hypnotic Hallucinations? HH are hallucinations created by the brain when you are deeply relaxed. During SP many people experience HH and sometimes it can be quite scary. Don't worry! The HH is NOT real and will not harm you! HH can also come in all 5 senses. My first experience involving HH, I saw/heard/felt frogs all over my bed!

*Before You Get Started*

Like I say to everyone, confidence is important when it comes to everything involving lucid dreams. WILDing is easy, you WILL do it! Close your eyes and visualize yourself getting to SP, and then into a dream! That will be you in the future! It won't maybe be you, it WILL BE! If a negative though comes into my head, I imagine the thought in a ridiculous voice and don't take it seriously. 

*When Should You WILD?*

When I was new to WILDing, I wanted to get into it right away! I decided to attempt WILDs before bed, instead of waking up in the middle of the night. Bad idea. I had no success whatsoever. Yes, WILDing before bed is possible but definitely not recommended _especially_ with newbies! 

*I would definitely recommend doing a WBTB in order to WILD.* 

*So how long should I sleep before waking up to WILD?* 

Well, you need to wake up right before, or during REM, and everyone's REM time is different! I would try waking up somewhere between 4-7 hours after you fall asleep in order to attempt a WILD. Just experiment with waking up at different times and you will find the right time for you! 

*Waking Up*

When you wake up for your WILD you could be too awake or too sleepy, this is what I do:

1. I am too awake!
You need to focus on relaxation. 
I have put together a list of what I do when I am too awake.

A. I have seen a great relaxation technique in other guides here on the site, and it is called the Tense-Relax technique. The idea is to focus on each separate muscle, tense it, and then relax it completely. Start from the bottom up or the top down, focusing on each muscle.

B. Breathing is very important when it comes to relaxing. I start by breathing in air through my nose, holding a few seconds, and then letting it out. It helps me if I imagine breathing in positive things through my nose and then breathing out any negative things through my mouth. It improves my confidence, and ability to WILD.

C. If you are still not relaxed, listen to some calming music. I have put together a list of music I listen to for relaxation:
Relaxing Ocean Waves
 Tranquility
Fireplace
Relaxing Nature

It also helps to visualize myslef somewhere relaxing while listening to the music.

2. I am too relaxed! 

You need to get up and walk around. Pay attention to objects, what they look like, smell like, taste like, etc. If I am really tired I put some cold water on my eyelids. Drinking water always helps me too.

Remember to empty your bladder before WILDing!

*Starting the WILD*

Lay down, and stay still. Don't focus on anything too hard, and just let your thoughts run through your head. Don't pay attention to your thoughts too much, but be aware of them. These were my thoughts when I first attempted WILDing:

_Okay, so I just stay still.
Stay still
Stay still
Keep still
That itch is itchy, but I need to stay still.
I want to move.
Oh my gosh, I am attempting a WILD
Keep still
Will I ever get into SP?
keep still
stay awake
Why isn't this working?_

I was focusing on my thoughts too much, and way to worried about WILDing. You have to let them pass through, if you want to get to SP and remember you can WILD!

After 10 minutes of laying completely still, I roll over, as suggested in Yoshi's Technique. Then if I don't enter SP after 10 more minutes, I roll over again. 

*How Do I Stay Aware?*

Sometimes, if I feel like I am falling asleep I focus on my breathing and count my breaths from 1-10. Once I get to 10 I start back over at 1. Sometimes, I listen to a noise in the background like a fan, but remember not to focus too hard on the sound.
I have seen people suggest causing physical discomfort while attempting to WILD in order to stay awake. I don't recommend this because you think about your physical body too much, and it isn't comfortable.

*I don't think I ever have SP...*

Unless you sleepwalk, or have a sleep related illness that lets you act out your dreams, you have SP. Don't worry!

*How do I know I am in SP?*

 Not everyone experiences HH, so how do they know they are in SP? Usually you will fill heavier, and a bit of numbness. Sometimes, you have a change in awareness or thoughts during SP.
 Remember, do not try to move to test if you are actually in SP! Just stay still, and stay relaxed.  

*You're in SP!*

Congrats on making it this far, but remember not to get too excited! Once you enter SP you might start to experience some HH. Don't focus to hard on your HH, just watch it come and go, calmly. Remind yourself that HH will not harm you in any way. After a couple a minutes, images should expand and you are in a dream! Congrats!

*So, is it possible to alter your HH?* 

Yes, it actually is! When SP is starting imagine your HH changing to what you want it to be. For example, If I wanted to see a park I would imagine how that park looked, how it felt, who was in it, what is sounded like, etc. This works very well for people who have a vivid imagination.

*What are common HH?*

Colors, whispers, stars, and vibrations are all common when it comes to HH.

*Dream Stabilization*

Stabilizing your dream is important to do with any lucid dream, but especially with WILD. So how do you stabilize your dream? Stimulate your senses. Look around at your dream scenery and concentrate on what everything looks like. Feel the ground, smell the air, taste any food, etc. It is also recommended to spin around or rub your hands together to stabilize the dream. Read more about stabilization here.

*False Awakenings*

Sometimes you think the WILD has failed when really you are having a false awakening! A false awakening is when you dream of waking up. This is quite common when it comes to WILDs, and if you think the WILD has failed ALWAYS make sure to do a reality check to see if you are having a FA!

*Problems*

Itching
Help! I itch everywhere when I try to WILD! How can I stop this?

Well when you are first starting the WILD out and you start to itch, it is best just to scratch it and not focus too much on it. 
When have an itch, it takes over your thoughts which is bad. Once you get deep into the WILD and have an itch, I either try to ignore or focus on it. For me, if I focus on an itch then it will go away. Remember, try not to let itches take over your thoughts, think of something else. Sometimes if I think about water, the itches go away.

The Urge to Swallow

If you have the urge to swallow, go ahead and swallow. Thinking about the urge, will make it worse. Just stop thinking about it. If you have real issues with this, then during the day focus on your breathing, take control of it, and then let go of the control. You did this by distracting your thoughts. If you find it hard just keep practicing and it will get easier!

Thank you for taking the time to read this guide! Good luck!  :smiley: 

Other Helpful Guides:

Yoshi's WILD Technique
CrazyInsane's WILD Tutorial
The Wiki WILD Tutorial 
Jeff777's Free Falling WILD Technique

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## zebrah

Nice guide Mancon!

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## Evolventity

Simple, understandable. Your guide makes SP seem less scary.  :tongue2:  Good job!  ::thumbup::

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## fOrceez

Nice guide, man :3

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## zebrah

Thread title changed to, "Mancon's In Depth WILD Guide" by request.

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## NoDaniel

Very nice tutorial! I SHALL ATTEMPT THIS

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## Raspberry

Nice one Mancon  :wink2:  Another awesome WILD tutorial added to DV  ::D:

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## Puffin

> That itch is itchy, but I need to stay still.



I don't know why, but that made me laugh. I hate itches!

Anyhow, great guide Mancon; you've covered everything important. It will help lots of people new to WILDing!

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## dakotahnok

**

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## Oneironautic

forget itches, what do I do if I have a MASSIVE SNEEZE?

nice tutorial btw

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## Mancon

Thanks everyone  :smiley: 





> forget itches, what do I do if I have a MASSIVE SNEEZE?
> 
> nice tutorial btw



This works for me: 

-Think very intensely about the spot right between your eyebrows. Keep imagining that something is touching it until the sneezing feeling subsides.
-Think about cabbage (Weird, I know but it seems to work for me!)
-Allergy Pill?  ::lol::

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## Karlitaki

thank u nice tutorial  :smiley:

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## DreamStorms

This guide is awesome! Great work! Time to try it out and maybe get my first WILD  :smiley:

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## That

> Simple, understandable. Your guide makes SP seem less scary.  Good job!



It's not at all  ::D:

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## Puffin

> -Think very intensely about the spot right between your eyebrows. Keep imagining that something is touching it until the sneezing feeling subsides.



That really works; I've done it a few times.

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## Raspberry

Apparently if you think about white horses it stops you sneezing.

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## Mancon

> thank u nice tutorial



Thanks! I'm glad this helped you with your first WILD!





> Apparently if you think about white horses it stops you sneezing.



I read white horses as the white house, haha.

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## PsychoPirate

Me Likey , Great tutorial! detailed ! but when i try to WILD do I need to close my eyes ? or keep it open ?! and yeah the itches KILLS ME ! it makes me to roll over and hope for DILD xD !

btw I also read white horses as the white house xD

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## Mancon

> Me Likey , Great tutorial! detailed ! but when i try to WILD do I need to close my eyes ? or keep it open ?!



 Thanks!  :smiley:  I got this same question 3 times in the last two days! Here's the answer:

When you are WILDing you are tricking your body into thinking your asleep. So to do that you have to act like your asleep, and when your sleeping your eyes are closed, not open! So keep your eyes closed while WILDing! Good luck!

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## yuppie11975

Excellent guide Mancon  :smiley: 
I was just wondering, is it necessary to switch positions, after about ten minutes?
I think I'd be more comftorbale just lying on my back? Because if I switch to my favourite postition (On my side, and hand under my pillow)
It'd be to comftorable , and I'd slip into sleep. Or is it fine to go back and forth between those two, and just fall asleep in one of them?
And how come we can succesfully wild in naps, but not when you go to bed? Just curious?

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## Mancon

> Excellent guide Mancon 
> I was just wondering, is it necessary to switch positions, after about ten minutes?
> I think I'd be more comftorbale just lying on my back? Because if I switch to my favourite postition (On my side, and hand under my pillow)
> It'd be to comftorable , and I'd slip into sleep. Or is it fine to go back and forth between those two, and just fall asleep in one of them?
> 
> And how come we can succesfully wild in naps, but not when you go to bed? Just curious?



Thanks!

1.) No you don't have to switch positions! Switching positions every 10 minutes just helps people, who have a really strong urge to move and constantly worry about moving. So nope, you can stay in the same position!

2.) When you are sleeping during the night you first go into NREM 1 which only lasts a couple minutes. Then you slowly go through NREM 2 and 3, and finally after 90 minutes you enter your first REM cycle.
 During a Nap you go through NREM 1 and then right into REM since the purpose of naps is to briefly relax and give you energy. When you nap, you haven't been up for the whole day and you don't need to sleep, so you enter REM faster. As the day goes on you get more tired, and after about 12 hours the brain needs to rest for a bit. 

Hope I explained it well, and wasn't confusing!  :smiley:

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## Katsuno

I tried it last night and for the first time in about 4 months I succeeded!
The relaxation music you posted worked like a charm and I totally forgot about my body because it was so hypnotizing and suddenly I felt a wave of energy flowing through my body and it got so heavy. At first I was a bit shocked because this never happened before but then the wave came again and my body felt like I was pinned down. 
The bad thing was: I couldn't finish because my cat came inside my room and jumped on my stomach  :Oh noes: 
Nevertheless: THANK YOU!  ::D:

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## LonelyTurtle

Nice guide!
litte tidbit of info though, sleep walking doesn't occur during REM period sleep so it wouldn't be a problem.

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## BamaDreamer

Great Guide!
I am fairly new to LD'ing and I think this will help me a lot in my future attempts. Last night I knew I was in SP but I either got too excited that I made it that far or I just focused on my SP feeling way too much, because I was in it for probably 20 minutes with no further advances into sleep or the dream state, and I finally gave up and just went to bed. I was also trying this upon first going to sleep, not after 5-6 hours of sleep, so I have a feeling I will have more success from now on, thanks!

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## Mancon

> Nice guide!
> litte tidbit of info though, sleep walking doesn't occur during REM period sleep so it wouldn't be a problem.



Taken from here:





> They are categorized as those occurring in rapid eye movement (REM) sleep; those occurring during non–rapid eye movement (NREM) sleep; and miscellaneous types that do not relate to any specific sleep state.



Sleep walking can occur in REM and NREM. Not trying to be mean, but thanks for telling me anyway  :smiley:

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## Naiya

Very nice tutorial.  :smiley: 

I have an extra tip for the swallowing problem: use a very fluffy pillow or two pillows. That way, your head will be tilted up and your saliva will drain without needing to swallow. It has helped me a lot.

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## Randoman

nice guide but what do you do to keep your eye from moving

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## LonelyTurtle

My bad, it does occur, its just very rare.





> Each night people go through several cycles of non-REM and REM sleep. Sleepwalking (somnambulism) most often occurs during deep, non-REM sleep (stage 3 or stage 4 sleep) early in the night. If it occurs during REM sleep, it is part of REM behavior disorder and tends to happen near morning.



taken from here

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## cyberetah

Seems like a nice tutorial, but I have a question.
I don't have the ability to perform a WBTB during the night at any time besides summer, so I want to get used to being able to perform the WILD without the WBTB. I also can't attempt to do the WILD in the afternoon, since it would A- I can't fall sleep due to school and other things like that, and B- If I somehow managed to do it, I would have an unimaginable hard time falling asleep later that night.

So my question is, how would this technique work if I tried it after waking up 5 hours after falling asleep and say, going to get a glass of water and returning to bed? Would I have to adjust the technique in anyways?

And also, I once tried this technique a while ago. I lied down, turned sides every 7-10 minutes, tried to focus on my breathing and things like that. However, the most I got was my arms and part of my upper body feeling numb before I decided to give it up. Was that a sign that I was nearing Sleep Paralysis?

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## Mancon

> Seems like a nice tutorial, but I have a question.
> I don't have the ability to perform a WBTB during the night at any time besides summer, so I want to get used to being able to perform the WILD without the WBTB. I also can't attempt to do the WILD in the afternoon, since it would A- I can't fall sleep due to school and other things like that, and B- If I somehow managed to do it, I would have an unimaginable hard time falling asleep later that night.



If you don't have the ability to WBTB, then I don't think WILD is the right technique for you. You have to find a technique that will work with you and your lifestyle. WILDing without a WBTB (Or nap) is very hard, but if you are really determined to do this click here.





> So my question is, how would this technique work if I tried it after waking up 5 hours after falling asleep and say, going to get a glass of water and returning to bed? Would I have to adjust the technique in anyways?



Yes, it can work if you did that. That's fine.





> And also, I once tried this technique a while ago. I lied down, turned sides every 7-10 minutes, tried to focus on my breathing and things like that. However, the most I got was my arms and part of my upper body feeling numb before I decided to give it up. Was that a sign that I was nearing Sleep Paralysis?



Numbness is a sign you are entering SP or in SP. You should only turn if you really feel like you need to move or want to move. If you are fine staying still, then just stay still. It isn't required to turn every 10 minutes.

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## cyberetah

Alright, thank you for the response, but just a question on the WBTB aspect of it-
By WBTB, are you referring to waking up in the night & staying awake for a set amount of time looking up stuff on lucidity and keeping my focus on that, or are you referring to waking up in the middle of the night and simply staying awake for a set amount of time before falling asleep? Because I can easily wake up in the night for say, 5-10 minutes before returning to sleep.
Any responses are appreciated, and I apologize for my confusion. Thanks again!

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## Mancon

> Alright, thank you for the response, but just a question on the WBTB aspect of it-
> By WBTB, are you referring to waking up in the night & staying awake for a set amount of time looking up stuff on lucidity and keeping my focus on that, or are you referring to waking up in the middle of the night and simply staying awake for a set amount of time before falling asleep? Because I can easily wake up in the night for say, 5-10 minutes before returning to sleep.
> Any responses are appreciated, and I apologize for my confusion. Thanks again!



Ahhh okay. By WBTB I just mean waking up in the middle of the night for like 1-10 minutes and then attempting a WILD.

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## Rybread34

I hate to be that guy but it should be "You're* in SP!" about halfway down the guide. 

Otherwise good guide.

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## Mancon

> I hate to be that guy but it should be "You're* in SP!" about halfway down the guide. 
> 
> Otherwise good guide.



No problem haha.

Fixed it...thanks  :smiley:

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## Mancon

> nice guide but what do you do to keep your eye from moving



Click here

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## wolf1234lucid

I know what he means by itches being itchy most times my itches almost start to burn heh

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## Mancon

> I know what he means by itches being itchy most times my itches almost start to burn heh



Haha I know. I used to ALWAYS itch while WILDing and it drove me INSANE.

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## cyberetah

Arghh... Trying to perform a WILD has become much harder now that school's begun. I end up having a lot more problems, specifically the amount of time it takes to fall asleep again after waking up.

I stay up for around 5 minutes after being woken by my alarm, around 5 hours after going to bed. When I go back, I lie in bed for a good hour or so before giving up, because even if I reach SP (which I have yet to ever reach) I will be unable to go into my dream before having to go back to bed. Any idea on what I can do to decrease the time that it takes me to enter sleep paralysis?
Details on my routine:
- Wake up 5 hours after falling asleep
- Use the restroom, wash my face, take a drink of water
- After staying up for around 5 minutes, go back to sleep
- Lie down on my back & flex freeze
- Reverse blink every once in a while
- Lie down & count my breaths

That's my usual routine, I usually count with no cap, going to try counting from 1-10 and restarting rather than just continuing the count. Hopefully that'll make some change. But besides that, does anybody have any advice as to how I can fall asleep faster? I'm willing to answer questions.

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## ClearView

A little tip that seems to work for many, if you would like to add... is to stretch in the time you get up from the WBTB alarm.

Focus on every little part of your body, and make sure it is as relaxed as possible. Doing so, you will get a tad bit tired and it can possibly aid you in decreasing WILD preparation time.

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## cyberetah

> A little tip that seems to work for many, if you would like to add... is to stretch in the time you get up from the WBTB alarm.
> 
> Focus on every little part of your body, and make sure it is as relaxed as possible. Doing so, you will get a tad bit tired and it can possibly aid you in decreasing WILD preparation time.



 Thanks a ton! I tried this in my latest WILD, and I got to a certain phase that I've been through several times faster than ever before. However, this phase is something I need help with now, as I've had the same problem time and time again.

I reach a phase where suddenly, I feel a tingling around my body. I feel slightly heavier, my head vibrates a bit, and my eyes try to make themselves open, which I have to force them shut with as little force as I can. My entire body goes number than previously with this sensation, but it only lasts around 10 seconds. Then it disappears and I return to where I was before.

So my questions are: Is this the transition phase to Sleep Paralysis?
And how come it consistently ends after a few seconds? I don't focus on the SP, I simply continue counting 1-10 in my head. Should I stop counting at the transition, or am I missing something? Any help would be nice.

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## Vesterguard

Very nice guide Mancon mate, but maybe to clarify a thing that has helped in a few of my WILDs

Sleep paralysis as you define it is incorrect. What you are referring to is REM atonia, which paralyse most of your body (bar eye muscles and remote muscle groups, which is why finger twitching is actually possible). Sleep paralysis DOES NOT occur in all individuals, though it is not uncommon. You are correct in describing HHs as a common phenomenon of sleep paralysis (not REM atonia) though, and (primarily for unexpecting individuals) can be accompanied by an anxious reaction bordering panic. 

Now it would be useless to just start hammering your excelent guide on a minor technicality, if I had no other point with doing so. The reason I am mentioning is that recently I have had success with just lying still observing various images and sounds occuring naturally in the hypnagoic period, but I am still moving and rolling around so not paralysed. What has happened is that these images has intensified sometimes to the point where the dream sort of just manifest (what I suppose you could call a transision) or I have a FA with immediate waking memory access that I was just paying attention to HHs. 

If you set people's expectations that they WILL experience SP when this isn't always the case, you might cause people some frustration. Besides I would hypothesise that artificially manufactering sleep paralysis is actually harder than WILDing _per se_ until you find the right technique, so you might actually have people starting working on something that is somewhat irrelevant to the overall goal of attaining lucidity.

That being said I have transitioned from SP before and the jolt or shock running up through my spine combined with the sensation of falling through my own body and progressing through the bed is EXTREMELY good fun  ::D:  but might not be the best method for actually WILDing. Hope this helps someone  :smiley:

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## ClearView

> So my questions are: Is this the transition phase to Sleep Paralysis?
> And how come it consistently ends after a few seconds? I don't focus on the SP, I simply continue counting 1-10 in my head. Should I stop counting at the transition, or am I missing something? Any help would be nice.



So you are doing it partially correct. At this moment when you feel the tingling, don't concentrate on ANYTHING. I can't stress enough, that when you are trying to transition in WILD you cannot pay attention to anything whatsoever other than your counting. However, at this point your counting should almost be automatic, and you don't even need to think about it. If you are able to, lay with a clear head, and very briefly ponder each *random thought that you come across.

Also i'm not aware of your counting method, but heres how I do it.

I count 1 breath as = breath in, breath out

Try that tonight, or whenever, and maybe you'll get farther! It's only a matter of trial and error buddy!

*random thoughts = As you reach the end of SP and the dream stage your mind is flooded with random thoughts that often even make up the dream scene. Do not ponder each one too long. I warn you on their randomness, flying monkeys with bananas on mars, and such. I am not familiar with the technique, but using these random thoughts you *can* induce a lucid dream.

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## Mancon

> Very nice guide Mancon mate, but maybe to clarify a thing that has helped in a few of my WILDs
> 
> Sleep paralysis as you define it is incorrect. What you are referring to is REM atonia, which paralyse most of your body (bar eye muscles and remote muscle groups, which is why finger twitching is actually possible). Sleep paralysis DOES NOT occur in all individuals, though it is not uncommon. You are correct in describing HHs as a common phenomenon of sleep paralysis (not REM atonia) though, and (primarily for unexpecting individuals) can be accompanied by an anxious reaction bordering panic. 
> 
> Now it would be useless to just start hammering your excelent guide on a minor technicality, if I had no other point with doing so. The reason I am mentioning is that recently I have had success with just lying still observing various images and sounds occuring naturally in the hypnagoic period, but I am still moving and rolling around so not paralysed. What has happened is that these images has intensified sometimes to the point where the dream sort of just manifest (what I suppose you could call a transision) or I have a FA with immediate waking memory access that I was just paying attention to HHs. 
> 
> If you set people's expectations that they WILL experience SP when this isn't always the case, you might cause people some frustration. Besides I would hypothesise that artificially manufactering sleep paralysis is actually harder than WILDing _per se_ until you find the right technique, so you might actually have people starting working on something that is somewhat irrelevant to the overall goal of attaining lucidity.
> 
> That being said I have transitioned from SP before and the jolt or shock running up through my spine combined with the sensation of falling through my own body and progressing through the bed is EXTREMELY good fun  but might not be the best method for actually WILDing. Hope this helps someone



Thank you Vesterguard. I will edit my post, and go into a little more detail about the difference between REM Atonia, and sleep paralysis. Thanks for catching that.

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## Amythest444

I don't know why most people have trouble with swallowing, perhaps it's because everyone thinks you reset the sleep paralysis timer. I use to think that, but know after swallowing a whole bunch yesterday, I was fine with WILDing  :smiley: 

Also, nice guide Mancon, this has helped me yesterday  ::D:

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## cyberetah

> So you are doing it partially correct. At this moment when you feel the tingling, don't concentrate on ANYTHING. I can't stress enough, that when you are trying to transition in WILD you cannot pay attention to anything whatsoever other than your counting. However, at this point your counting should almost be automatic, and you don't even need to think about it. If you are able to, lay with a clear head, and very briefly ponder each *random thought that you come across.
> 
> Also i'm not aware of your counting method, but heres how I do it.
> 
> I count 1 breath as = breath in, breath out
> 
> Try that tonight, or whenever, and maybe you'll get farther! It's only a matter of trial and error buddy!
> 
> *random thoughts = As you reach the end of SP and the dream stage your mind is flooded with random thoughts that often even make up the dream scene. Do not ponder each one too long. I warn you on their randomness, flying monkeys with bananas on mars, and such. I am not familiar with the technique, but using these random thoughts you *can* induce a lucid dream.



 Yeah, I may have just reached SP a bit too fast. By the time I remembered the counting aspect of SP, I had only counted 1-10 about 5 times. But I do the counts with breaths, as you suggested. I'd TRY to peacefully and calmly ponder on each random thought that pops up... If I had any  :tongue2:  I reach that stage, then 10 seconds later, I'm back at the way I was before, just a bit number. But I'll try again, this time I'm going to try to stop the counting in my head and just focus on nothing. If that doesn't work, I'll work a bit harder on counting passively. (As ironic as that sentance is)

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## ClearView

That means you are thinking too hard. In reality, all this lucid dreaming stuff is simple. Once you get passed the "OMG THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE I QUIT" hurtle, you should be nice and comfy in your lucid dreams.

But here is a point many do not realize. They strive to succeed in the actual transition, but get lost in the aftermath.

You need to know what you are going to do as soon as you are in your dream. Have a set plan on what you will do, and how you plan on stabilizing/maintaining the dream. Learn to control the excitement pulsating in your body as you reach SP, and cross over it's boundaries.

Basically meaning that you need to be prepared for the long run, and not just getting out of SP and into the dream.

If you have any more questions about WILDing or Lucid dreaming in general, PM me or a dream guide, we would be happy to help!

(Sorry for hijacking the thread Mancon! I apologize dearly in advance!)

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## cyberetah

> That means you are thinking too hard. In reality, all this lucid dreaming stuff is simple. Once you get passed the "OMG THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE I QUIT" hurtle, you should be nice and comfy in your lucid dreams.
> 
> But here is a point many do not realize. They strive to succeed in the actual transition, but get lost in the aftermath.
> 
> You need to know what you are going to do as soon as you are in your dream. Have a set plan on what you will do, and how you plan on stabilizing/maintaining the dream. Learn to control the excitement pulsating in your body as you reach SP, and cross over it's boundaries.
> 
> Basically meaning that you need to be prepared for the long run, and not just getting out of SP and into the dream.
> 
> If you have any more questions about WILDing or Lucid dreaming in general, PM me or a dream guide, we would be happy to help!
> ...



At the moment, my problem doesn't appear to be the transition; I'm almost certain I haven't even reached SP yet. I know myself well enough to know that once I reach SP, I'll get a massive confidence boost towards it and focus on the transition itself; As it stands, I'm still trying to get into SP and atleast see hypnogagic imagery. After that, I'm going to be focusing on the transition.

But, as a note, I tried WILDing yesterday again. I got a fair amount, but I noticed something that I can now confirm has been happening a bit recently. I'm counting from 1-10, with my breaths, and I HAVE to count manually. (If I'm counting my breaths, then I have to time them with it, so it's manual) So what I noticed is that sometimes, I drift off for a bit, and when I remember to count my breaths, I'll notice that I'm snoring. And the moment I notice that, I go back to manual breathing, and that stops. So I don't know if this has any relevance, but do I need to stop this, or what should I do with it? Is that drifting off too far anyways? Any help is appreciated.

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## Mancon

> At the moment, my problem doesn't appear to be the transition; I'm almost certain I haven't even reached SP yet. I know myself well enough to know that once I reach SP, I'll get a massive confidence boost towards it and focus on the transition itself; As it stands, I'm still trying to get into SP and atleast see hypnogagic imagery. After that, I'm going to be focusing on the transition.
> 
> But, as a note, I tried WILDing yesterday again. I got a fair amount, but I noticed something that I can now confirm has been happening a bit recently. I'm counting from 1-10, with my breaths, and I HAVE to count manually. (If I'm counting my breaths, then I have to time them with it, so it's manual) So what I noticed is that sometimes, I drift off for a bit, and when I remember to count my breaths, I'll notice that I'm snoring. And the moment I notice that, I go back to manual breathing, and that stops. So I don't know if this has any relevance, but do I need to stop this, or what should I do with it? Is that drifting off too far anyways? Any help is appreciated.



I would recommend just focusing on being aware, and not drifting off. Maybe you could try something other then counting to keep you aware.

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## cyberetah

> I would recommend just focusing on being aware, and not drifting off. Maybe you could try something other then counting to keep you aware.



Well, I can easily just stay focused and aware if I want to, but I thought if I try and stay aware then my mind won't fall asleep and I can't WILD?

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## Mancon

> Well, I can easily just stay focused and aware if I want to, but I thought if I try and stay aware then my mind won't fall asleep and I can't WILD?



Well the trick is to stay aware enough so you don't dose off, but not too aware that you stay awake. You want to be really relaxed, and act like your sleeping but still be aware of things happening.

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## cyberetah

> Well the trick is to stay aware enough so you don't dose off, but not too aware that you stay awake. You want to be really relaxed, and act like your sleeping but still be aware of things happening.



Alright, I can try that. Gonna keep practicing... Sadly, school has caused some big issues in the WILD department, as I have to consistently change my sleeping schedule now, so lots of problems have arisen  :tongue2: 
Anyhow, wish me luck. I'm at the stage where I feel a bit of vibrations for a 10 second period before it wears off (I don't focus on it or change what I'm doing, it just comes and goes), so from what I understand I just have to go through a few of those before sleep paralysis kicks in and I'm set to dream. I should have that down by summer, which means summer will be very happy indeed  ::D:

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## Mancon

> Alright, I can try that. Gonna keep practicing... Sadly, school has caused some big issues in the WILD department, as I have to consistently change my sleeping schedule now, so lots of problems have arisen 
> Anyhow, wish me luck. I'm at the stage where I feel a bit of vibrations for a 10 second period before it wears off (I don't focus on it or change what I'm doing, it just comes and goes), so from what I understand I just have to go through a few of those before sleep paralysis kicks in and I'm set to dream. I should have that down by summer, which means summer will be very happy indeed



Yeah, school has affected my WILDs as well. Good luck!  :smiley:

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## Ctharlhie

Could I increase my chance of success by trying at different REM periods of the night? Or would multiple WBTBs in a night kill me?  :tongue2:  Maybe it would be more sensible to stretch it over a couple of days, with a different time each night.

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## Epolsinnelli

Awesome This helps alot. btw jw if you open your eyes during SP will you see HH in our room? i always wounder that but im to afraid to try, i dont want to see some creapy person standing next to me

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## Mancon

> Could I increase my chance of success by trying at different REM periods of the night? Or would multiple WBTBs in a night kill me?  Maybe it would be more sensible to stretch it over a couple of days, with a different time each night.



Yeah, it would increase your chances of success. If you don't want to loos much sleep I recommend you just stretch it over a couple days. 





> Awesome This helps alot. btw jw if you open your eyes during SP will you see HH in our room? i always wounder that but im to afraid to try, i dont want to see some creapy person standing next to me



Yeah, it's possible.

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## Ctharlhie

Not sure if I WILDed last night.

I got up at 5, sat up in my bed with the lights on for about 3 minutes, then lay back down and started counting, I got as far as 150 (though I probably counted more through attention lapses), I then rolled on to my side and carried on counting, and I think at this point I fell asleep. Next thing I remember is whiteness all around me, and a dream scene forming, and knowing it was a dream, though I remember very little of it as I was too tired to write any of it down upon awaking.

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## Samalove

Great guide!  ::D:  .. I can get to SP quite easily but have trouble from there.... This help me understan that a lot better  ::D:  Any way... I feel like a noob but I'm double checking... Lol, should my eyes be open or closed during all of this?

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## Ctharlhie

If you've been keeping your eyes open then that may be a good reason you've had trouble progressing  :tongue2:

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## Mancon

Ctharlhie, sorry for the late reply. Sounds like your really close to having one. Wish you remembered more :/ Did you remember becoming lucid in it at all? 





> Great guide!  .. I can get to SP quite easily but have trouble from there.... This help me understan that a lot better  Any way... I feel like a noob but I'm double checking... Lol, should my eyes be open or closed during all of this?



Thank you! You should have your eyes closed when doing this.  :smiley:

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## Ctharlhie

> Ctharlhie, sorry for the reply. Sounds like your really close to having one. Wish you remembered more :/ Did you remember becoming lucid in it at all?



There wasn't really the typical eureka moment of RCing and thinking 'this is a dream!' I just knew it was dream because I'd seen it form in front of me. So maybe it was a proper WILD seeing as I was conscious for the dream formation, but I definitely had a lengthy lapse in consciousness, very confusing :/ As always, thanks for the advice and work you put into this  :smiley:

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## sean95

Hey Mancon, just wondering, how many WILD attempts did it take before you succeeded? I'm just wondering if it either came naturally for you, or if it was something you had to work at.

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## Darknis133

Something you might want to add: if you have a pet, such as cat, let it sleep next to you. It's been proven that having pets nearb gives you a sense of security and makes relaxing/calming for sleep easier and faster.

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## transient

Thanks!

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## Mancon

> Hey Mancon, just wondering, how many WILD attempts did it take before you succeeded? I'm just wondering if it either came naturally for you, or if it was something you had to work at.



WILDing did NOT come naturally to me. I don't don't exactly how many WILD attempts it took before one succeeded but it was a while. Once I took Naiya's WILD DVA Class, I started to have WILDs. I wasn't staying consistent with it and once I started to it all payed off.

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## Ctharlhie

> WILDing did NOT come naturally to me. I don't don't exactly how many WILD attempts it took before one succeeded but it was a while. Once I took Naiya's WILD DVA Class, I started to have WILDs. I wasn't staying consistent with it and once I started to it all payed off.



Is that class archived anywhere or is it lost in the forum aether?

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## rynkrt3

> Is that class archived anywhere or is it lost in the forum aether?



I would also like to know the answer to this.  I really need all the WILD help I can get  :tongue2:

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## Mzzkc

I think a lot of it was done over chat. There are probably logs of it floating around somewhere.

On topic:

Nice guide overall, Mancon. 

Not a huge fan of the wording in parts. For instance, "It means you go directly from waking state into the dream state. You trick your body into thinking you're asleep, but really you are awake!" makes it seem like the point of a WILD is to stay awake and never actually fall asleep, which we both know isn't the case. Still, I feel this will cause a lot of newbies to shift the balance of their attempts toward alertness and wakefulness instead of actually falling asleep, which is as necessary a part of WILDing as maintaining awareness. 

The reason I believe shifting focus, and thus more balance, towards the falling asleep bit of WILDs is that it saves people tons of sleepless, frustration filled hours that could otherwise be used for something more productive. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a WILD fail in 10 minutes, lose consciousness, and have a great shot at a DILD, than lie awake in bed for an hour or three waiting to feel some tingles, only to feel disappointed by the end of it all.

Neither am I too fond of the focus on achieving SP, for the reasons already stated by Vesterguard.

But those criticisms aside, there's a lot of genuinely good advice in here that should definitely help get people headed in the right direction. What's more, you go into quite a bit of detail, cover pretty much all the bases, the format is clean, and it's extremely readable. Props to you.

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## Mancon

> Is that class archived anywhere or is it lost in the forum aether?



Almost all of it was done in chat, but I am sure there are logs around somewhere.

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## fOrceez

> Something you might want to add: if you have a pet, such as cat, let it sleep next to you. It's been proven that having pets nearb gives you a sense of security and makes relaxing/calming for sleep easier and faster.



Actually, the reason why you shouldn't have a pet sleep next to you during your WILD attempt is because a sudden movement may shock you and ruin your attempts to get into sleep paralysis.

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## Mancon

> Actually, the reason why you shouldn't have a pet sleep next to you during your WILD attempt is because a sudden movement may shock you and ruin your attempts to get into sleep paralysis.



Pets can be good and bad. Like fOrceez said, it actually isn't recommended for WILDing since they can move suddenly and make noise.

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## Milliecake

> I'm counting from 1-10, with my breaths, and I HAVE to count manually. (If I'm counting my breaths, then I have to time them with it, so it's manual) So what I noticed is that sometimes, I drift off for a bit, and when I remember to count my breaths, I'll notice that I'm snoring. And the moment I notice that, I go back to manual breathing, and that stops. So I don't know if this has any relevance, but do I need to stop this, or what should I do with it? Is that drifting off too far anyways? Any help is appreciated.



Just read this great guide, and found I'm having similiar problems. I tried counting breaths but kept falling asleep so I tried some basic maths. Here's what happened last night once I reached the illogical thought stage and tried to stay aware:

1+1 is 2...1+2 is 3...2+3 is 5...5+6 is 7...7+8 are rabbits...er 7+8 is 15...7-1 is 6 which is trying to kill five...

Lol that's all I remember, though an earlier attempt I got to the HH stage which had someone screaming in my ear...usually it's just whispers  :Sad: 

There's a mental game I sometimes play, taking a six letter word and trying to make as many words out of that. I think I'll try that as maths isn't my strong point and I'm guessing the awareness achor needs to be something interesting enough to stay aware for.

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## fOrceez

> Just read this great guide, and found I'm having similiar problems. I tried counting breaths but kept falling asleep so I tried some basic maths. Here's what happened last night once I reached the illogical thought stage and tried to stay aware:
> 
> 1+1 is 2...1+2 is 3...2+3 is 5...5+6 is 7...7+8 are rabbits...er 7+8 is 15...7-1 is 6 which is trying to kill five...
> 
> Lol that's all I remember, though an earlier attempt I got to the HH stage which had someone screaming in my ear...usually it's just whispers 
> 
> There's a mental game I sometimes play, taking a six letter word and trying to make as many words out of that. I think I'll try that as maths isn't my strong point and I'm guessing the awareness achor needs to be something interesting enough to stay aware for.



I laughed so hard at the rabbits. From there, you can just observe your thoughts, if you'd like. That's taking most of a passive WILD approach at it.

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## Coderz

Taking a shot after reading. Ive been about 25min since my wakeup for a WBTB-WILD.I'm starting to wakep too much, so time to give it a go, at my first induced LC(hopefully)

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## Sydney

I tried your technique last night Mancon. I love how simple it is! I couldn't figure out when 10 minutes had been up, so I just rolled over when it felt time. I should't even be thinking too hard about that!
Anyways, after the third time I rolled over, my mind wandered and I lost consciousness. Should I stay completely aware throughout the attempt? (Like even if it takes me 1 hour or so to get to SP?)
Even if I lower my awareness down just a little bit because I think I'm trying to hard, my mind wanders, I move without thinking, and fall  asleep. Any advice?

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## WuChi

still so is it possible to just go a sleep as normal U go and try WILD or I have to wake up and do this stupid WBTB I never have time or maybe don't want have attempts at 4:20 trying for an hour or more when at 6:30 I need stand up to work reading tutorial what I get U have to do it strait away but reading more post most people use WBTB at half of their sleep reading first I want it reading more its not for me but all i have is DILD and after reading this forum start to have DEILD, WILD is something impossible even if i imagine keep me busy or concentrate on breath fall a sleep pretty quickly focus in front of me is unintelligible still be trying on visualisation as on HH and try to be awareness and try take all the advices on all WILD's post attempts without WBTB

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## Mancon

> I tried your technique last night Mancon. I love how simple it is! I couldn't figure out when 10 minutes had been up, so I just rolled over when it felt time. I should't even be thinking too hard about that!
> Anyways, after the third time I rolled over, my mind wandered and I lost consciousness. Should I stay completely aware throughout the attempt? (Like even if it takes me 1 hour or so to get to SP?)
> Even if I lower my awareness down just a little bit because I think I'm trying to hard, my mind wanders, I move without thinking, and fall  asleep. Any advice?



Hi!  :smiley:  The trick is balancing awareness. You want to be aware enough so you stay conscious until you get into the dream, but not too aware where you will stay up. Sounds like you just need some practice with staying aware. Don't worry! Just keep it up  :smiley: 

WuChi, Yes it is possible, but I really don't recommend it. It would take a long time to do. If you dont have time for the 'stupid' WBTB, I recommend you try another technique, like MILD.

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## Sydney

Okay! Yeah I get what you're saying. I got just a little bit farther last night. At one point, about the second time to roll over, I felt a very faint tingliness throughout my body. I wondered whether I should roll over or not when it was time. I did anyways. Was this the right thing to do?

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## DON

Dug my account out of the grave to ask this lol.  I'm a little confused about waking up before or right after your REM.  What exactly does that mean?  Almost always I wake up about 3-4 hours after sleeping, but I wake up FROM a dream, not BEFORE a dream.  If I wake up after a dream does that mean I've ruined my chances for the rest of the night?  Thats mainly what I'm confused about.  If I wake up in the middle of the night after 3-4 hours it's always after a dream.  So do I need to wake up earlier?  After 2 hours maybe?

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## Ctharlhie

Awakening from a dream is good, it means you should be going right back into REM when you return to sleep.

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## HoodedPianist

Great guide, except, there is one problem, what you're referring to as HH is NOT hypnotic hallucinations, it's hypnagognic hallucinations. Not trying to sound like a Grammar Nazi, just think you should change that to avoid confusion.

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## Ctharlhie

> Great guide, except, there is one problem, what you're referring to as HH is NOT hypnotic hallucinations, it's hypnagognic hallucinations. Not trying to sound like a Grammar Nazi, just think you should change that to avoid confusion.



That would an issue of semantics, not grammar  :wink2:

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## LucidRaider

Are you allowed to move your eyes as they are closed?, like... Am I allowed to still move my eyes around in my head when they are closed? or do I have to keep them still, because that's really hard. ._.

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## Mancon

> Are you allowed to move your eyes as they are closed?, like... Am I allowed to still move my eyes around in my head when they are closed? or do I have to keep them still, because that's really hard. ._.



It's better to keep your eyes still, but if you are more comfortable moving them..go ahead. I don't think it should affect you getting into a dream too much. Good luck!

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## OwenLucid

> Excellent guide Mancon 
> I think I'd be more comftorbale just lying on my back? Because if I switch to my favourite postition (On my side, and hand under my pillow)
> It'd be to comftorable , and I'd slip into sleep. Or is it fine to go back and forth between those two, and just fall asleep in one of them?



Ive been wondering this exact same thing! Should we lie still on our back or in our favourite position???
P.S Thats my favourite sleeping position as well XP

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## Mancon

> Ive been wondering this exact same thing! Should we lie still on our back or in our favourite position???
> P.S Thats my favourite sleeping position as well XP



Just whatever position you like! I don't think it affects your chances of WILDing very much...as long as you're comfortable.

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## queenrosie

Do you guys think that beginners, and when I say beginners I mean like serious amateurs to this, should try to WILD as one of their first techniques?  ::?:

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## Tucane

Even though many claim that WILD is not a beginner's technique, I'd recommend new LD:ers to try it out. Some people are naturals at WILD, you might be one of them :smiley: . Even if you're not, a WILD-attempt never is a lost experience.

That being said, DILD's tend to come easier for most people. If you have time and feel motivated, practice both of them :smiley: .

Best of luck :smiley: , Tucane

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