# Off-Topic Discussion > The Lounge > Tech Talk >  >  How Many Hackers Do We Have Around Here

## Seeker

I&#39;m just curious.  White hat, Black hat, green hat, whatever.  I know there are several of you that love to hack into stuff.  So, how many of you are out there and why does it interest you?

If you feel nervous answering this thread, you can just fill in the poll.


[EDIT] I voted no, I am not a hacker although I was in my younger days.  Now my life is too busy fighting entropy.

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## LucidDreamGod

No, inless you count using a pass cracker to hack a runescape account, I didn&#39;t actually make the thing though.

I also used auto clickers to get extra views in my dj as well as do stuff in RPG&#39;s

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## Ne-yo

I think I&#39;ve seen _Kevin Mitnick_ around these parts Now that&#39;s an Uberhacker&#33; Im pretty sure there are a few Black Hats running around these parts. That guy Shadownightwing was one.

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## TweaK

I do what I see fit. I don&#39;t go around looking for exploits, but if I happen to come across one, I&#39;ll definately poke around.

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## nina

> That guy Shadownightwing was one.[/b]



ARE YOU SERIOUS&#33;?? 

No way. I do not believe that. Crazy lunatic maybe...but hacker? Nah...

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## BohmaN

How do you hack? :S I want to learn so I can hack my friends computers and have some fun =D

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## sourcejedi

I identify as a hacker in the wider sense of someone who enjoys working with computers.  That&#39;s pretty much what it used to mean.  A lot of people are annoyed that when it came into more widespread use it was redefined to refer to criminal activity, and still use it in the old sense.  Theres lots about this sort of thing online, though the links I found on Wikipedia seem a bit too verbose.

In the other sense - no.  I&#39;d be no good anyway - I feel physically very nervous about anything like that, probably partly because of a rather combative experience with a school IT department.

I&#39;m pleased to announce that, after my vote, the majority of Dreamviews users are now hackers.  Hows that for scary?

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## sourcejedi

> How do you hack? :S I want to learn so I can hack my friends computers and have some fun =D[/b]



Right...

I&#39;m with Seeker on this one :-)

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## Krrish

I am a hardware hacker. I dont know enough coding to become a soft-hacker.

Give me your old computers, cell phones, analog radio, used tin bottles.. I can build interesting items.

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## pj

I could have voted either way, Seeker.

I know nix and TCP/IP.  I am responsible for the security of several servers and a small network, and in that capacity have more than a passing familiarity with many of the tools out there.

Before the days of the WWW, I used to hack just to get on the &#39;net, running NOS through the MERIT system.  That&#39;s probably as far as I&#39;ve ever come to breaking into anybody else&#39;s system though, except when I&#39;ve been asked to by folk who have the authority to grant - and back then, the MERIT system was sort of open anyway.  They knew we were there and didn&#39;t do anything about it.

By today&#39;s standards, I&#39;m no hacker, and I certainly wasn&#39;t one of the first - but I was in there pretty early and do know my way around.  Not sure what you&#39;d call that anymore.

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## Artelis

I used to do my share of coding for the community.  Nothing malicious, but a few friends and I used to have rootwars with eachother.  I&#39;ve since lost time for a lot of in-depth computer work.

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## TweaK

> I identify as a hacker in the wider sense of someone who enjoys working with computers.  That&#39;s pretty much what it used to mean.[/b]



Actually, a hacker is someone who breaks into others&#39; systems/find exploits and tells them about their flaws. What people label as hackers nowadays are _crackers_.

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## Ne-yo

> ARE YOU SERIOUS&#33;?? 
> 
> No way. I do not believe that. Crazy lunatic maybe...but hacker? Nah...[/b]



Yeah You&#39;re right about one thing, my mistake Haker *Not*. Script Kiddie *definitely*. Remember when Kaniaz found the source code for this guy who exploited DV&#39;s?






```
&#60;&#33;--
/* MjM&#39;S JAVA CODENAME = FLASH
This JavaScript Code was written CYBER-LORD
I am not responsible for any damage caused by my code.
This code can be modified as long as the Author&#39;s Name is still attached.
Email &#58; [email protected]
© Copyright ass bag
*/
```


But there was something embedded that Kaniaz left out for some odd reason, I know it wasnât an oversight thatâs not like him. HE tagged a Microsoft forum under another Signature that same day. I found the source code on the 2nd exploit and guess what it matched&#33; 



*EDIT:* I voted No on the polls

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## MSG

I live practically a stone&#39;s throw away from Kevin Mitnick, though I have yet to see him around...

That said, I&#39;m not a hacker simply because I see no reason to be - I bet I could be if I tried, it&#39;s just pointless to me.

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## LucidDreamGod

> [/b]



that was an old avatar of mine

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## nina

> Yeah You&#39;re right about one thing, my mistake Haker *Not*. Script Kiddie *definitely*. Remember when Kaniaz found the source code for this guy who exploited DV&#39;s?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ```
> &#60;&#33;--
> ...



What does ANY of that have to do with ShadowNightWing??

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## Jeremysr

Please, don&#39;t use that word.  ::|:  Here is what a hacker really is.





> 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.
> 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming.
> 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value.
> 4. A person who is good at programming quickly.
> 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in &#96;a Unix hacker&#39;. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.)
> 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example.
> 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.
> 
> The term &#96;hacker&#39; also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see network, the and Internet address). It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic (see hacker ethic).
> ...

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## CymekSniper

Seeker, I cannot shake the feeling you got this idea from my post in the lounge.   ::mrgreen::

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## Seeker

> Seeker, I cannot shake the feeling you got this idea from my post in the lounge.  [/b]



I might have on some subconcious level, not sure.  I was just curious.

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## Gwendolyn

I&#39;m not a hacker.... But, I think hackers are necessary to a point, so that security flaws can be found and fixed. Kevin Mitnick is a person I admire greatly. I mean, I think of the term hacker as a positive term, because it refers to those who know their stuff about computers.

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## Demerzel

I&#39;m going to go with yes. Hacker is a broad term.

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## Howie

I can&#39;t even get into my own account 1/2 the time.
I disagree that they are necessary.

That is like saying robbers are necessary so new breakthroughs in home security can be found.
No robber no lock.

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## Ynot

I&#39;m a fan of Sandra Bullock

does that count?

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## Howie

> I&#39;m a fan of Sandra Bullock
> 
> does that count?[/b]




ha ha. It took me a minute, but good one&#33;

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## Ynot

> ha ha. It took me a minute, but good one&#33;[/b]



then you sir, are no hacker
we all have fake nude jpg&#39;s of sandra littered about our systems

or so someone told me

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## dodobird

I&#39;v always regreted that I never became one. when I was at the right age ( teenager ) at the 80&#39;s I didn&#39;t have any friend with a modem  :Sad: 
I also always regreted never becoming a martial art master and a punk rocker...

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## Tornado Joe

> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE







> I&#39;m a fan of Sandra Bullock
> 
> does that count?[/b]



ha ha. It took me a minute, but good one&#33;[/b][/quote]

 ::rolllaugh:: 
OMG&#33; I so totally got that&#33; (and ashamed to admit)  :Oops:  


--- *Π*

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## TweaK

> I can&#39;t even get into my own account 1/2 the time.
> I disagree that they are necessary.
> 
> That is like saying robbers are necessary so new breakthroughs in home security can be found.
> No robber no lock.[/b]



You obviously have no clue what a hacker is.

*Edit*
And to put it in your context, to make it easier, a "Lock/alarm system testing employee" of the company that made said locks/alarm systems is also a hacker.

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## Ynot

also, hacking doesn&#39;t automatically mean security

hence stuff like this
http://www.phpbbhacks.com/

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## Howie

> You obviously have no clue what a hacker is.
> 
> *Edit*
> And to put it in your context, to make it easier, a "Lock/alarm system testing employee" of the company that made said locks/alarm systems is also a hacker.[/b]




What is a hacker then?
Sure, call it a computer enthusiast.   ::roll::  
Cut to the chase, a hacker as the average person knows them to be, is a computer user who attempts to gain unauthorized access to other&#39;s computer systems. no?

If that is so. If no hackers existed then no spy ware, AVG, Norton or any other program of that manner would have to exist.

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## Ynot

we&#39;ve lost the battle
language is fluid, I guess
hacker now means unsavoury person

didn&#39;t used to be
used to be called Crackers (as in to crack into a system)

hacker used to do ad-hoc alterations to software (usually to fast-fix problems, etc.)
hacking up source code

but whatever
to be honest

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## Tornado Joe

> hacker now means unsavoury person[/b]



Wait, you mean "slacker"?





> used to be called Crackers[/b]



Hey, hey... no need to get racist&#33;&#33;

What was the name of that movie about hacking? Wasn&#39;t it "Hackers"? (Angelina Jolie sportin a super short haircut).

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## Ynot

yes
believe the big-budget hollywood film, you WWII winning son of a gun, you

fuckin&#39; enigma machine bollocks

 :Pissed:

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## MindDaguerreotype

I answered "yes". In the "old school" meaning (see in the "jargon dictionnary" : Meaning of hack : _Hacking might be characterized as an appropriate application of ingenuity&#39;_)

I just enjoy "knowing how it works" (mainly in computers).

For me, lucid dreams are perfectly in the hacking spirit: this means going beyond the standard usage of our brain capabilities, and do something with them that was not planned for, but is nevertheless very fun. If I was a "cracker", I would have the same knowledge, but using it for personnal greed instead, like brainwashing others.

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## sourcejedi

> I can&#39;t even get into my own account 1/2 the time.
> I disagree that they are necessary.
> 
> That is like saying robbers are necessary so new breakthroughs in home security can be found.
> No robber no lock.[/b]



Sort of.

Unfortunately its not as easy to separate personal security on the internet from national security.  

I don&#39;t think theres hard proof of military action on the internet, but theres plenty of evidence that theres more coming from China than you might expect from disparate individuals out to make money.

Its also difficult to separate security from privacy.  Or security from robustness against unintentional failures.

The mindset and tools of a "hacker" are not obviouslly evil or distinct from those used productively.  It&#39;s the morals that cause the real problem.

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## LucidDreamGod

> I answered "yes". In the "old school" meaning (see in the "jargon dictionnary" : Meaning of hack : _Hacking might be characterized as an appropriate application of ingenuity&#39;_)
> 
> I just enjoy "knowing how it works" (mainly in computers).
> 
> For me, lucid dreams are perfectly in the hacking spirit: this means going beyond the standard usage of our brain capabilities, and do something with them that was not planned for, but is nevertheless very fun. If I was a "cracker", I would have the same knowledge, but using it for personnal greed instead, like brainwashing others.[/b]



yeah I think of lucid dreaming as hacking real life, it&#39;s kind of like a program they had for runescape were you can have everything the game has to offer but there is no one but you who is in it, only about 1000000 times better, because runescape was about showing off your hard work, and social connection (which can be achieved in lucids)

As I say in my profile you can hack the experiences in real life, and experience everything possible.

So yeah I&#39;m a life hacker

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## Artelis

Also, there would be less software development without hackers.

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## Ne-yo

Okay I watched this thread progress just to get a general idea of what everyones opinions were in regards to hacking. Now here&#39;s the deal.

Basically in short "Hacker" is a loaded word. The hacker community and it&#39;s a thriving online community which includes but is not limited to technophiles, curiosity seekers, cybervandals, and outright thieves and fraudsters. The technophiles love to take apart software to see how it works or what they can make it do. Some write tools and applications such as password crackers, vulnerability scanners, and anonymity tools, and make them freely available on the Internet or hacker Web sites and message boards. Some devote long hours to uncovering flaws in software that make systems less secure by allowing destructive worms and viruses to gain access. 

As for the others, the intruders, vandals, virus writers, and thieves They are criminals, pure and simple. At their most benign, they are trespassers, rummaging through proprietary systems and databases. Hackers also are responsible for Web defacements, denial-of-service attacks, and identity theft. Some see themselves as rebels or revolutionaries, or _"hactivists"_ spreading a message of anarchy and freedom. Some are simple mercenaries who write tools, known as exploits, to take advantage of security flaws and make it easier to penetrate systems. In some cases, they sell that information to spammers, organized crime, other hackers, or the intelligence services of foreign countries. 

Hackers are blamed for unleashing worms and viruses that have cost businesses billions of dollars a year in damages. The problems they cause have gotten so bad that Microsoft created a &#036;5 million fund to provide rewards for information leading to the capture of the people responsible for those attacks a few years ago. Microsoft is fed up with the damage done to its reputation and, increasingly, to its revenue stream and Im fed up with it also>  ::evil::

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## Jess

I&#39;m just a hack.

Does this count?

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## TweaK

> If that is so. If no hackers existed then no spy ware, AVG, Norton or any other program of that manner would have to exist.[/b]



If no criminals existed, there would be no need for doors, locks or alarm systems.

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## PenguinLord13

For me it depends on how you define hacker. If you define hacker as someone who hacks into computers/software or something then no. I don&#39;t know programming and that stuff. If you define hacker as someone who likes to modify stuff to their liking (like unblock the PC/Cell Phone media transfer block Verizon had on my phone, or finding keygens online to make Windows XP "Genuine"), then yes I am one and proud. I like exploiting the flaws already present in hardware/software to make it do what I want, and not what the maker wanted me to do with it, and that is why I voted yes, but it isn&#39;t like I go looking around trying to exploit flaws present in stuff for the heck of it (and never to do what I percieve as damage. I also like to "mod" hardware when possible, and some projects I would like to try are the "Soap Mouse" and a homebuilt streering wheel + pedals for PS2 (It actually wouldn&#39;t be difficult, just a few 10K pots, and a steering wheel + pedals from an old car, and a cheap controller, like the Superman controller which is 10 bucks and easy to solder).

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## Howie

> If no criminals existed, there would be no need for doors, locks or alarm systems.[/b]



This list could go on and on. If you sit and brainstorm, it is amazing the amount of effort put towards, stealing cheating, hacking etc.. 
Kaniaz hacked into chat.. .enough said.  I think we all new what was said.   ::wink::

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## arby

HACKER ALLERT&#33; HACKER ALERT&#33;

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## f3if3i

> I&#39;m just curious.  White hat, Black hat, green hat, whatever.  I know there are several of you that love to hack into stuff.  So, how many of you are out there and why does it interest you?
> 
> If you feel nervous answering this thread, you can just fill in the poll.
> [EDIT] I voted no, I am not a hacker although I was in my younger days.  Now my life is too busy fighting entropy.[/b]




People need to learn and get it straight that a hacker isn&#39;t someone who seek to destroy and break into computers and create problems. Hacker is a term used to describe someone that solve problems to benefit people. I am sure that people out there that are "real hacker" is pretty angry.

A "cracker" is someone who break into things and try to destroy it.

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## nina

Ne-yo&#33;

Answer my damn question please. Thank you.

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## laconix

> People need to learn and get it straight that a hacker isn&#39;t someone who seek to destroy and break into computers and create problems. Hacker is a term used to describe someone that solve problems to benefit people. I am sure that people out there that are "real hacker" is pretty angry.
> 
> A *"cracker"* is someone who break into things and try to destroy it.[/b]



Saying that is discrediting crackers; people who reverse engineer programs and essentially "crack" them. Hence the name "cracker".

The proper name for somebody "who break into things and try to destroy it", is a vandal.

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## Ne-yo

> Ne-yo&#33;
> 
> Answer my damn question please. Thank you.[/b]




Well aren&#39;t we a little Apprehensive. Did you even know the guy? Besides I answered the question but out of respect for Kaniaz I can&#39;t go into much detail, I&#39;m sure you understand.

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## Eldritch_of_Fire

I&#39;m not a hacker but im a close friend of the guy who hacked myspace and put up a message on the its main page for about 10 mins i think it was  :tongue2:

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## M-Cat

I&#39;ve "hacked" into a couple things when I was bored.
I know next to nothing about computers so I was basically going blind. 

My friend thinks he&#39;s such an awesome hacker, though actually he&#39;s just what&#39;s known as a "script-kiddie"  ::D:  He just downloads programs that do the hacking for him lol

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## RooJ

Network penetration testing is part of my job (i like to think). In the past, before the job, ive hacked and used to enjoy it, nearly all targets i gained access to were legaly hacked heh. For anyone who&#39;s been involved its an interesting scene, still have many links who are active but im far from calling myself a hacker... im a good boy  ::bigteeth::  .

I agree with MindDaguerreotype though, for me its about learning, gaining knowledge, I dont think you can tar everyone with the same brush, not everyones out to cause problems for others. A large part of my interest in lucid dreaming arises through a drive to hack the mind, gain more control etc.

I also got into serial and program cracking (as in cracking software such as 30 day trial programs etc) but never released keygens or serials, its just a sport like lockpicking was :&#092;, never did anyone any harm.... and the vast majority of apps i didnt even want, just enjoyed cracking them.

Ive incriminated myself enough now... thanks seeker.

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## Fale55

> I think I&#39;ve seen _Kevin Mitnick_ around these parts Now that&#39;s an Uberhacker&#33; Im pretty sure there are a few Black Hats running around these parts. That guy Shadownightwing was one.[/b]



Isn&#39;t he in prison?

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## Friedpickle

I guess you could call me a hacker.  The worst that i have done is just to bypass the schools internet blocking system.  I could do a lot more damage if i had the school adminaster passwrod.  but i am too nice to do that&#33;  also i have messed around with one of my frineds computer and giving the files that make theri computer do crazy things.  Trust me he dresrved it.  ::bigteeth::

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## Ne-yo

Kevin Mitnick is out of prison. Has been out for a while now he was on G4 previously.

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## Fale55

> Kevin Mitnick is out of prison. Has been out for a while now he was on G4 previously.



Yea, I just watched the Tech TV clip of him because he is back online... ::?:  

Well he sure as hell learned his lesson ::banana::

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## nullbyte00

I guess you could consider me a hacker. I defaced my school's homepage and I got 5 days of OSS :p

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## Ynot

> I guess you could consider me a hacker. I defaced my school's homepage and I got 5 days of OSS :p



Wow,

OSS is considered a punishment now?  ::D:

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## arby

Well, the punishment usually comes when your parents find out bout it XD

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## xcrissxcrossx

In some ways I am. I am not an excelent hacker, but when i CAN hack into something i usually try. And i have a couple times. I find it fun.

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## LucidFlanders

No, i don't use aimbots, wall hacks, speedhacks, etc. Oh, wrong hacker... :Eek:

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## Adrenaline Junkie

i can get into the schools network and view anyones files if that counts? i do it in command prompt, don't think it dus

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## Demerzel

i think that much counts, because I do it at school too. There are various ways to do it without using command prompt here too, haha.

ofc, I tell the school about any security issues I find - it keeps them nice and pleasant towards me. =p

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## Marvo

In my school, I could once walk directly into the RegistryBase and do whatever I wanted to.

Now though, all schools in Denmark are based on network stuff, where you connect to a gigantic server and get your files. Citrix all the way. They are using Linux though, so if I could bring a linux setup on some flashram, and boot on that, I could fuck around with the linux setup and setup in general. I don't think I can do anything fatal, unless I gain access to the main server, but I think that's hard.

So no, I'm not really a hacker, but I can certainly mess around with stuff.

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