# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  Jeff777's Free-falling WILD technique!

## Jeff777

Jeff777's *Free-falling WILD* technique





Step 1 - Free-fall

_With this method, WBTB not required for entering Sleep Paralysis, but it's very helpful in entering into a WILD_.  Lie down in whatever comfortable position you want, and let your mind chatter or go over what it was doing that day.  This is good. Most relaxation or SP induction exercises teach you to clear your mind and focus on something.. But doesn’t your mind usually trail off to something else?  That’s because your brain has processed a lot of information that day and needs time to unwind, just as you, after a hard days work, need time to unwind and relax when you get home.  Passive awareness of your thoughts at this stage is key for moving into the next stage.  

Step 2 - Chaos theory

Once you _start noticing illogical images and patterns_ (only the illogical ones signals the cue to move on!) making its way into your mind, then you’re ready to move to step three because at THIS point, your body is going to sleep and the part of your mind that deals with logic and reasoning along with it.   _Any_ sudden thought that, with conscious logic and alert reasoning, does not make sense is considered an "illogical thought"; and for understanding purposes, the term _chaos_ refers to illogical images and random thought patterns. If you’d like to speed up the free-fall into chaos process.. try free-falling "with a weighted jacket on".  _You can do this__ by_ _creating illogical images and thoughts yourself_.  This essentially speeds up the shut-down process. After 5 - 10 minutes of doing this, you should have effectively triggered the neocortex/frontal lobe to begin _hibernating_, thereby _tricking_ it into creating illogical thoughts and images now on its own accord,  without your assistance anymore.  I only recommend speeding up the process if you're good at passively observing your thoughts and have no problems catching yourself before you fall too far.  
 
*•* Sometimes these thoughts will shift in quickly when you’re relaxing. When the first one hits my mind, I like to mentally recognize it and sit in a little chair and watch where else my mind continues to go until I think its time to stop free-falling into chaos and begin the next step.

*•* I call this the free-fall relaxation technique because unlike most tutorials that want people to creep into the SP process, I encourage one to free-fall to great depths but to catch oneself before hitting the ground (unconscious sleep), by using all 5 steps.  The steps used in this method cut my learning curve down and allowed me to enter into WILD's more quickly _because_ I'm able to enter SP more quickly.  If you’re sufficiently relaxed and you’ve passively noticed your thoughts becoming illogical (free-falling into chaos), you're ready to _pull that rip-cord_ and move on.  

*•* If you feel as if you haven’t let yourself fall far enough.. resume the free-fall technique until you’re deep enough to move on.  Passive awareness IS KEY.

Step 3 - Readjustment

If you weren't lying on your back already, then the next step is to lie on your back.  Some sleep studies suggest paralysis is easier to attain when lying on ones back.  If you find it difficult to stay in this position comfortably because you are accustomed to sleeping on your side - tilt your head sideways on your pillow.  That should offer some balance.

Step 4 - Deep Breaths

What you want to do next is elongate your breathing.  You want to _mimic the body's natural breathing pattern when it's asleep_.  When sleeping, we tend to breathe deeper.  You don’t want to take _very_ deep breaths but you do want them to be somewhat longer than how you breathe when you are awake.  Like with Chaos Theory, after about 5 - 10 minutes of doing this step, your body should naturally take over this rhythm and you won't be required to force this breathing anymore.

Step 5 - Maintaining State

Your body is sufficiently relaxed, your breathing is as it is when you are sleeping and your mind has free-fallen enough to where its logic and reasoning centers are trying to shut down, - Now that the hard part is out of the way, it should be smooth sailing from this point on!  So now, let’s maintain awareness.

*•* If you notice yourself slipping away, try doing basic math.  Nothing complex, but something that requires some actual thinking… not automatic answers.  

*•* One thing I’ve found that helps me is by mentally repeating, in between breaths, “I remain consciously aware as my body falls to sleep”.  If you want to maintain logic, reasoning and awareness as your body falls to sleep, - in between breaths, mentally count down from 100 - 1.  You _should_ shift into sleep paralysis before you get to 1.  If you haven't shifted yet, Count down again.  The shift is unmistakable.  You may feel vibrations, a wave of energy sweep over you, a lead blanket being pulled over you, or you may even notice your hearing shift from external to internal (real time hearing).  All of these are indicators that you've successfully (and consciously) entered into sleep paralysis.  

*•* Try to remain as still as possible.  Swallowing saliva won’t help you but won’t hurt that much either.  It all comes down to awareness and focus.  Energy flows where attention goes.  If too much focus and attention is going to your throat (to swallow or not to swallow!?) instead of relaxing, then more energy is going there as well. Result?  You won’t be going to sleep anytime soon.  For more simple solutions I give to combat swallowing, eye movement, twitches and more, click HERE.

_Testimonials!_




> _I've made it!_ I couldn't sleep for about an hour. But i wanted to sleep further because i needed some more sleep.
> Then i decided to try the free-falling technique. I've done that before, but not knowing what it was.
> So i layed still for a while. Let my mind do what it wanted to think. I don't remember what random thoughts i had, because i gave them no attention!
> I didn't intend to WILD, but at some point _I 'catched' my mind from falling deeper. It was the moment when sleep paralysis set in_.  Sensations were going through my whole body and i was lifted a bit. As i was set back into my bed, i knew i was now dreaming. Opened my eyes and voila!







> Most of you are aware of another popular sleep paralysis induction thread,  I created a few years ago.  By tinkering with that method for some  years, I've arrived at the techniques above.  By _utilizing the above steps, I've gone from having 3 WILD's per week to averaging 5 - 7  WILD's per week_;  since it helps me enter the necessary state more quickly.  I  hope that  you've found it just as helpful to use as I've found it enjoyable to   share.  Happy lucids.
> 
> - Jeff777







> _i had my first success with this technique this morning :d!_ i woke up from a dream, and decided to attempt right away. I just paid attention to the chaos thoughts, and made sure to recognize the sp wave. The transition went as in any other wild i've had before. 
> Thanks jeff :)







> i did have a wild with this technique. It was a few nights ago. _it was the quickest wild i have ever had._







> _This WILD technique is amazing.  I had 2 LDs in the last 2 days_, and this morning I had i LD through wild and chain 6 more LDs through DEILD. Before practicing this technique i had only 2 LD through WILD. _I totally recommend this technique_. Thank you Jeff!







> _I did this last night and it really worked_(I got too scared when I entered SP though)! Thanks a lot for sharing this tutorial!! :banana:

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## Jeff777

Submitted successes with this method may become part of the original post as testimonials.

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## zebrah

Another excellent guide Jeff.

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## Puffin

Great technique! Maybe it'll help me break my WILD dryspell.

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## insideout

I can give this a try.
Usually, though, I have to clear my mind of thoughts while WILDing, otherwise my mind wanders off and I just fall asleep, non-lucidly. But it would be good for me to practice staying aware as my mind wanders.

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## Ctharlhie

This could really help me out a lot, I'm usually very aware of when my thoughts start to become disjointed and illogical as I'm drifting off. I love the idea of 'freefalling' into SP  :smiley: 

EDIT: I guess this would have to be after a fairly long WBTB, if you were still groggy attempting this you'd just fall asleep in stage 2?

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## bren

I tried this today. Didn't get into full sp with it but did feel vibrations and quite quickly also. I have yet to fully wild, i always fall asleep or get the swallows. I do like how you go with the flow more than trying to fight the current with this, gonna try this again tomorrow. Thanks for the tutorial.

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## Katsuno

This guide is a great help because I always struggle with the "fact" that you have to clear your mind to Wild. When I Wilded accidentaly it was always because I let my mind wander and did not focus on anything.
Gonna try this tonight  :smiley:

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## nina

Nice tutorial Jeff. It's nice to have a different way to approach the WILD, especially for those of us that are more experienced LDers and yet for whatever reason have found WILDs to become more difficult over time.

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## Ctharlhie

Could the chaos theory, creating illogical patterns yourself, part be achieved by visualising surreal imagery?

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## TeaSea

I try to do something similar already. Not really illogical thoughts (so I suppose it's not that similar. Hm.) but more along the lines of imagining surreal images, like Ctharlhie - that was fun to type - said above. I find it just speeds up the process of getting to sleep paralysis.

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## RooJ

Thanks for the technique, ive been using a similar method of hypnogogia induction to get to sleep rapidly for some time now, i tend to use auditory hypnogogia though:

http://www.dreamviews.com/f12/rapid-...c-state-62493/

I recently read your guide on inducing SP and i have to say i really think the combination of that and the freefalling is awesome. The real bonus about inducing hypnogogia from my experimenting is that you're much more likely to retain awareness. Often times when falling asleep i dont even notice hypnogogia, but when i induce it manually im able to predict it and predict exactly when im going to lose consciousness.

It does make me wonder what else you can trick your mind into doing by the act of mimicking.. but i guess thats a whole other topic =)

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## fOrceez

Hi, I'm a new dreamer( yet to have my first lucid) I tried this technique and I definitely felt the Finns "energies" going over my body as it went into SP but what do you do after that to enter a lucid? Thanks  :smiley:

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## Puffin

Tried to run before I walked last night, creating illogical thoughts myself instead of waiting for my mind to produce them first. I fell asleep... Drat!  :tongue2: 
Maybe I'll stick with the natural process and not try to induce the thoughts myself until I'm good at staying aware.

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## KingYoshi

Nice tutorial Jeff. Next WILD opportunity I get, I shall give this a go.

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## Jeff777

> This could really help me out a lot, I'm usually very aware of when my thoughts start to become disjointed and illogical as I'm drifting off. I love the idea of 'freefalling' into SP 
> 
> EDIT: I guess this would have to be after a fairly long WBTB, if you were still groggy attempting this you'd just fall asleep in stage 2?



Hm, I've entered SP using this sans WBTB, though, if you find that it helps (WBTB's generally do help lucid dreamers period), then by all means go for it.  Tailor it to your needs.  :smiley:   And I should thank you.  I can see how some would get confused about that so I clarified things in my first paragraph.   ::goodjob2:: 





> Could the chaos theory, creating illogical patterns yourself, part be achieved by visualising surreal imagery?



Yes.  When I say "illogical thoughts", I meant it to be inclusive of illogical/bizarre/surreal imagery as well.  I suppose I should have clarified that a bit more too.  Though I guess if purely thinking of illogical words works for some, then they should continue with that.





> Hi, I'm a new dreamer( yet to have my first lucid) I tried this technique and I definitely felt the Finns "energies" going over my body as it went into SP but what do you do after that to enter a lucid? Thanks



Congratulations on entering SP!   :smiley:   It's important to understand that this method is JUST a sleep paralysis induction technique.  It can be done anytime, anywhere.  

It's a little misleading calling it a WILD technique unless you know how to integrate the tech into your REM states.  REM is sparse in the early part of our sleep cycle and tends to get lengthier in the latter stages.  Typically going from minor bursts of REM to longer states of it.  Since lucid dreaming, _only_ occurs during REM sleep (as we know it), using a WBTB with this (see first response I made in this post, where the user was asking me about WBTB), would be helpful in attempting when your REM state is at its lengthiest.  REM generally cycles every 90 minutes so it's possible for you to WILD in the beginning stages, but the WILD's will be shorter than if you integrated WBTB.

If you are simply training yourself at entering sleep paralysis so that it can effectively help you when you start trying to combine your attempts with your REM states, then you can do this technique whenever you choose.  





> Tried to run before I walked last night, creating illogical thoughts myself instead of waiting for my mind to produce them first. I fell asleep... Drat! 
> Maybe I'll stick with the natural process and not try to induce the thoughts myself until I'm good at staying aware.



Aha, well keep at it Puffin.  I'm sure _you'll_ get it in no time.   :wink2: 





> Nice tutorial Jeff. Next WILD opportunity I get, I shall give this a go.



Thanks bro.   :wink2:

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## TeaSea

I just woke up for a WBTB, and I thought I'd just visit DV for a bit to wake me up properly before I go and do my WILD attempt with this technique. My usual problem tends to be falling asleep too quickly. I think I'll go and do some maths.

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## Puffin

TeaSea, your avatar made me do a reality check! x'3

I'll be trying another WILD tonight, this time with a longer WBTB just in case I get the smart idea to do what I did last night...

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## dakotahnok

*





 Originally Posted by Puffin


TeaSea, your avatar made me do a reality check! x'3



why it's just a glass of... OH MY GOD IT'S BLUE. 

Anyway I'll be trying this tonight! I'll report back tomorrow!*

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## TeaSea

> TeaSea, your avatar made me do a reality check! x'3
> 
> I'll be trying another WILD tonight, this time with a longer WBTB just in case I get the smart idea to do what I did last night...



Success! It's also been known to make people defecate bricks.  ::D: 

What was your smart idea last night?





> why it's just a glass of... OH MY GOD IT'S BLUE. 
> 
> Anyway I'll be trying this tonight! I'll report back tomorrow!



Maybe it was always blue and you just imagined tea in there.  :wink2:

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## Xaqaria

Is your success rate acheived with or without wbtb?

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## bren

I have been trying this method for the last few days. Each time I get to the illogical thoughts quite fast, maybe 15 mins of laying down at most, and man when actually paying attention to these they are quite crazy, and somewhat humorous at times. I then move to the natural breathing, a question about that. Do i extend my abs and diaphragm, or is it not quite that deep? But that is as far as i make it, i don't think i reach SP, unless there are not any real signs of it for me, i still hear my fan going in my room for example. Today for example i had illogical thoughts for about 45 mins then decided  it wasn't going anywhere, any help is appreciated. Thanks.

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## dakotahnok

*My alarm didn't wake me up last night. Try again tonight!*

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## Raspberry

I can induce illogical thinking after a few minutes, so this will work well for me.

Thanks  :wink2:

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## Jeff777

> Is your success rate acheived with or without wbtb?



For awhile, I was training at just entering sleep paralysis whenever I wanted to enter it.  I felt getting training myself to get to the mind awake, body asleep state was paramount for WILD'ing, so I concentrated my efforts on that for some time. 

I experienced many WILD's using this without WBTB, but the quality of the LD's _was fair at best_.  When I felt I had gotten to the point of being able to induce sleep paralysis pretty well, I started incorporating WBTB's into my routine to take advantage of my lengthier REM periods (better WILD's).





> My alarm didn't wake me up last night. Try again tonight!



How'd you do?

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## dakotahnok

*I havemt gone to sleep yet...*

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## bakbaba

How can you WILD without getting 4-6 hours of sleep? Dont you need to be close to an REM cycle?

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## Jeff777

> How can you WILD without getting 4-6 hours of sleep? Dont you need to be close to an REM cycle?



Maybe a bit harder but certainly possible.  Read my other posts within this thread in which I explain it a bit more.

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## Puffin

> Maybe a bit harder but certainly possible.  Read my other posts within this thread in which I explain it a bit more.



Very helpful Jeff, I've never seen the REM phases like that before.

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## quorthonafull

*Nice guide, Trying tonight!*

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## bakbaba

> Maybe a bit harder but certainly possible.  Read my other posts within this thread in which I explain it a bit more.



I read your other posts and now I understand, thanks.
However, do you know why we can enter SP at all if we are not in a REM cycle? Isn't the purpose of SP to protect us from our movements when we are in a dream?

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## Dark_Merlin

That is a really helpful way of seeing the REM cycles put, thank you! I'll make sure to refer to it when I start trying to WILD more after exams.

I think SP starts to make sure we don't do anything while we're asleep, not necessarily just dreaming. An example is when you don't start sleep paralysis and you have a very short dream about falling, and wake up quickly again when you flail around in your bed  :tongue2:  The dream isn't in a REM period, because you've only been falling asleep for a short while, but you still act out the action if SP hasn't kicked in.

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## Sesquipedalian

I will try this out for a while. Considering it's coming from a former staff member with a WILD just about every night, I have confidence in this.

I will report back with results.

About time I end my hiatus.

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## AndresLD

Well, I think I FINALLY got back into lucid dreaming, although my recall is not too good right now, and I've only had one LD this month. I will give this a shot tonight  :smiley:

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## rynkrt3

I need some help with stage 2.  With me, when I lie down to sleep, my mind is usually pretty blank, no thoughts of my day, no weird thoughts or images.... It's just blank until I fall asleep.  Maybe I do have these weird thoughts or "chaos"  but I can't catch them because I'm not really conscious during this.

Any advice?

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## AndresLD

> I need some help with stage 2.  With me, when I lie down to sleep, my mind is usually pretty blank, no thoughts of my day, no weird thoughts or images.... It's just blank until I fall asleep.  Maybe I do have these weird thoughts or "chaos"  but I can't catch them because I'm not really conscious during this.
> 
> Any advice?



Last night I tried this and I had the same problem. Basically I woke up at 4:30, stood up to turn my alarm off, and went back to bed. But as soon as my eyes closed, fell asleep. Maybe I should stay awake for a little longer, or start using my brain when I close my eyes, as in counting backwards from 100?

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## rynkrt3

> Last night I tried this and I had the same problem. Basically I woke up at 4:30, stood up to turn my alarm off, and went back to bed. But as soon as my eyes closed, fell asleep. Maybe I should stay awake for a little longer, or start using my brain when I close my eyes, as in counting backwards from 100?



My problem isnt as much falling asleep quickly, I actually have no idea how long it takes me to fall asleep, because basically as soon as I lay down and relax for a few minutes I just kinda go unconscious.  Not asleep, but not aware of my thoughts at all.

I do think this technique has a lot of potential, mainly because getting into SP is the hardest part of a WILD

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## AndresLD

Ah I see. Well, you should try making your own thoughts. Kinda like day dreaming. Imagine crazy scenarios, or just think about your day in general, or plans for your future. That's what I do at least  :smiley:

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## rynkrt3

> Ah I see. Well, you should try making your own thoughts. Kinda like day dreaming. Imagine crazy scenarios, or just think about your day in general, or plans for your future. That's what I do at least



I've tried this before, my problem with that is, when I'm consciously thinking and making new thoughts, I can't get to sleep, it just keeps me awake... which kinda defeats the whole purpose >.<

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## AndresLD

I meant, create your thoughts first, and then let them drift away. I know what you mean. At night if I keep creating my thoughts I won't fall asleep. But I noticed that after I create them, and then just let them take their own course, I will start having illogical thoughts, like described by Jeff. If you have tried this, and you are still unable to put attention into these random thoughts, I honestly don't know what will work, sorry =/

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## rynkrt3

> I meant, create your thoughts first, and then let them drift away. I know what you mean. At night if I keep creating my thoughts I won't fall asleep. But I noticed that after I create them, and then just let them take their own course, I will start having illogical thoughts, like described by Jeff.



This sounds like it will work.  Thanks  ::D:

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## jmanjohn

Cool guide. I used to skip over your posts because u gave me a infraction along time ago, but i just got over it after seeing how intelligent you actually are. Fantastic guide. Trying tonight probably if i don't wake up and decide to go back to sleep.

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## Jeff777

> I need some help with stage 2.  With me, when I lie down to sleep, my mind is usually pretty blank, no thoughts of my day, no weird thoughts or images.... It's just blank until I fall asleep.  Maybe I do have these weird thoughts or "chaos"  but I can't catch them because I'm not really conscious during this.
> 
> Any advice?







> I noticed that after I create them, and then just let them take their own course, I will start having illogical thoughts



rynkrt3, Andres hit the nail on the head my friend.   After 5 - 10 minutes, the mind should get the drift and relinquish you of "needing" to force this anymore.  It'll continue doing it (this is when you mentally sit down and just pay attention watching) on its own.  Careful.  You don't want to fall too far.  If I may offer another word of advice it'd be to incorporate WBTB.  If you are and are still falling asleep "blankly", stay up for a bit longer until your body is still tired but mind is still somewhat alert.  Some people have problems falling to sleep, which is a problem of over-complicating the process.  While others, (like yourself) seem to just jump straight into unconscious incoherency.  In the latter category, not enough active control is being done while in the former, too much active control is the preventative cause.  





> Last night I tried this and I had the same problem. Basically I woke up at 4:30, stood up to turn my alarm off, and went back to bed. But as soon as my eyes closed, fell asleep. Maybe I should stay awake for a little longer, or start using my brain when I close my eyes, as in counting backwards from 100?



Sounds like you need to stay awake for a longer amount of time yeah.  My WBTB period is about 30 minutes to 1 hour.  You want to get the grogginess (not tiredness) out of the way so your mind is alert enough to stay conscious during sleep paralysis.

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## AndresLD

> This sounds like it will work.  Thanks



 I hope it does  :smiley: , you're very welcome.





> Sounds like you need to stay awake for a longer amount of time yeah.  My WBTB period is about 30 minutes to 1 hour.  You want to get the grogginess (not tiredness) out of the way so your mind is alert enough to stay conscious during sleep paralysis.



Oh I see! That makes much more sense  :smiley: ! I think I've actually experienced the free falling WILD before then! I used to refer to it as "accidental" WILD. Because I just went to sleep, and after a while of crazy imagery BAM, a SP wave would hit me and seconds later I would be in my dream bed. 
I will try again tonight, and stay awake for about 30 minutes before going back to sleep. Thank you Jeff.

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## Jeff777

> I hope it does , you're very welcome.
> 
> 
> Oh I see! That makes much more sense ! I think I've actually experienced the free falling WILD before then! I used to refer to it as "accidental" WILD. Because I just went to sleep, and after a while of crazy imagery BAM, a SP wave would hit me and seconds later I would be in my dream bed. 
> I will try again tonight, and stay awake for about 30 minutes before going back to sleep. Thank you Jeff.



You're welcome my friend.   :smiley:

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## lemonDrops

thanks jeff! i have been doing "free falling" so often the last years! especialy when i was driving home with the bus and when i couldn't sleep, but i didn't think of turning this into a LD! This creates a whole new view of WILD to me.

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## rynkrt3

Since this is labeled as a WILD technique, maybe you should include "How to transition from SP to a LD" into the thread.

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## Robot_Butler

This is an excellent  guide, Jeff!  It is hard to describe that illogical-thinking state you get into right before you fall asleep.  You rock!

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## rynkrt3

I tried creating my own "chaos" process last night.  My mind was basically blank.  I started to thing about some weird shit, a few minutes later, the weird thoughts started pouring in, but as soon as I noticed them/paid attention to them, they went away and I had to start the process over, so I did.  Yet again the weird thoughts starting coming in without my help, but as I tried to "passively notice" them, they went away again.

This does work, and it works well.  I just need to figure out why this is happening.

Any advice?  ::D:

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## bakbaba

Usually, as soon as I realize that I am having illogical thoughts, they stop occurring and I feel like my mind becomes more aware and alert, and that kind of interferes with me drifting off to sleep. Its a bit hard for me to remain alert and continue having chaotic thoughts at the same time. Once, I was trying to WILD and I started noticing that I was having illogical thoughts, and some of them were so damn stupid and WTF-inducing that I started giggling in my bed.
Don't question my masculinity.

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## Puffin

> Usually, as soon as I realize that I am having illogical thoughts, they stop occurring and I feel like my mind becomes more aware and alert, and that kind of interferes with me drifting off to sleep. Its a bit hard for me to remain alert and continue having chaotic thoughts at the same time. Once, I was trying to WILD and I started noticing that I was having illogical thoughts, and some of them were so damn stupid and WTF-inducing that I started giggling in my bed.
> Don't question my masculinity.



That happened with me a lot at first; I'd suddenly become almost too aware of them, so I couldn't sit back and passively observe them. And I've also questioned some of them before... It's really weird what you can come up with as soon as you're about to fall asleep.  :tongue2:  

Keep trying. It sounds like you just need to focus on being aware without creating thoughts of your own, which can be a fine line at times, but you'll get it!

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## Jeff777

> Since this is labeled as a WILD technique, maybe you should include "How to transition from SP to a LD" into the thread.



Hm.  I suppose in all my years here and practicing LD'ing, I've assumed people kind of knew what to do given a WBTB and a sleep paralysis induction technique but.. that's my fault.  You're not the first person to ask me how does one use this method to transition into a WILD.  I suppose editing the original post to explain that, or linking to another page of mine in which that is explained would do some good.  Thank you rynkrt3.   :smiley: 





> This is an excellent  guide, Jeff!  It is hard to describe that illogical-thinking state you get into right before you fall asleep.  You rock!



Thanks man.   :smiley: 





> I tried creating my own "chaos" process last night.  My mind was basically blank.  I started to thing about some weird shit, a few minutes later, the weird thoughts started pouring in, but as soon as I noticed them/paid attention to them, they went away and I had to start the process over, so I did.  Yet again the weird thoughts starting coming in without my help, but as I tried to "passively notice" them, they went away again.
> 
> This does work, and it works well.  I just need to figure out why this is happening.
> 
> Any advice?



Sure.  It sounds as if you're kind of "surprising" yourself once these thoughts come in, therefore shifting you into an ALPHA state of relaxation.  Work on just passively observing without giving too much active focus to the illogical imagery.  Attention goes where energy flows remember.   :wink2:   Also, you're going to hate me for this but the only advice I can give a person at this point is to..












































Keep practicing.   :tongue2:   The WILD forums popular "Mind Awake, Body Asleep" SP induction thread I started that received over 1,000 comments and over 130,000 views had many people succeed overnight, many people that claimed they couldn't do it, and many people that reached road blocks.  I helped answer as many questions as I possibly could over the course of 3 years within that thread and the main problem I identified that most people kept tripping up on was unrealistic expectations.  They expect to find one method, one technique, one word of advice that will make them PRO overnight.  When they don't get that PRO feeling in an amount of time that they think they deserve, they give up and go from "I'm having trouble" to "I quit.. this doesn't work".  

A dear good friend of mine I met a few years ago out of California started practicing LD'ing at the tender age of 14.  She's now 25.  She has 2 - 3 lucid dreams per night.  She's mastered DILD and has mastered WILD.  Many know her here as Naiya.  Thing is.. she stuck with it.  She never changed her routines too much and after two years of persistently working on a routine and practicing every night, she achieved mastery level.  Now.. she's just ridiculous at at.

Another friend of mine started WILD'ing when she was young, thought it was normal and kept doing it over and over without fail.  She has about 5 - 6 WILD's (just WILD's), per night.  her name may is Silph, from Norway.  She used to be a dream guide here.

One more dear buddy of mine took a lucid dreaming book and started practicing.  Without giving up, he tried and failed many many times over the course of a few years.  But now, he is regarded as a lucid dreaming pro.  He's gotten to the point where he only has non-lucid dreams once or twice per month.  That's all.  His name is Walms.  I asked him once what does he think about people being "naturals" at lucid dreaming and thinking he's a natural at it.  He said that the idea was ridiculous.  He said he worked his butt off night after night to get to where he is and hard work and persistence is the only thing he attributes his successes to.

These aren't the only pro's but they're the ones whose stories I've become most familiar with.  What they all have in common is persistence, flexibility in their approach and vision to keep going for the gold.  

Sure I'm biased toward my methods, but there are countless methods on DV that I also like and have helped tons of members.  As long as you're doing things right, then just keep practicing mate.  Anything worth doing, is worth doing well.  Regardless of the technique chosen.

----------


## rynkrt3

Ah yes.  I have had many moments of my lucid dreaming life (1 year?  Not very long) with WILD, where I'm like YES I will do this, I just need to practice.  To make a long story short, it didn't work out, I didn't really try to hard, and just gave up.  I think this technique simplify s the WILD a lot, I will practice this until I get it down pat, I will become a master WILD'r  ::D: 

If you don't mind, I'm gonna post my little "recap" of what I think I should be doing, and if there's any faults I would greatly appreciate them to be pointed out, mainly so I don't waste time practicing a wrong technique  :tongue2: 

1.  Whether in a WBTB or not, lie down and relax for a few minutes.  Let your mind wander, but don't go unconscious.
2.  Try to passively observe your thoughts as they become weird and illogical (dream like)  Don't pay to much attention or they will fade away and you will mentally wake up some.
3.  Once these thoughts start to occur, get on your back and do deep breathing until your body takes over, kinda like forcing the "Chaos" thoughts, but with breathing.
4.  Once your body has taken over your breathing, and your mind is going thru weird thoughts and images.  Try to remain aware until you hit SP ( I'm confused on how to remain to just aware enough without waking your mind up.  For me, when I try to retain awareness, it just keeps me awake.)

Sorry for all the question.  Just trying to make sure I didn't mis read the information... which I kinda do a lot.

----------


## Jeff777

> Ah yes.  I have had many moments of my lucid dreaming life (1 year?  Not very long) with WILD, where I'm like YES I will do this, I just need to practice.  To make a long story short, it didn't work out, I didn't really try to hard, and just gave up.  I think this technique simplify s the WILD a lot, I will practice this until I get it down pat, I will become a master WILD'r 
> 
> If you don't mind, I'm gonna post my little "recap" of what I think I should be doing, and if there's any faults I would greatly appreciate them to be pointed out, mainly so I don't waste time practicing a wrong technique 
> 
> 1.  Whether in a WBTB or not, lie down and relax for a few minutes.  Let your mind wander, but don't go unconscious.
> 2.  Try to passively observe your thoughts as they become weird and illogical (dream like)  Don't pay to much attention or they will fade away and you will mentally wake up some.
> 3.  Once these thoughts start to occur, get on your back and do deep breathing until your body takes over, kinda like forcing the "Chaos" thoughts, but with breathing.
> 4.  Once your body has taken over your breathing, and your mind is going thru weird thoughts and images.  Try to remain aware until you hit SP ( I'm confused on how to remain to just aware enough without waking your mind up.  For me, when I try to retain awareness, it just keeps me awake.)
> 
> Sorry for all the question.  Just trying to make sure I didn't mis read the information... which I kinda do a lot.



For the most part that's about the jist of it.  If I can add a few more tweaks, it'd be this:

Step 1: Freefall.  What you're doing here is trying to go to sleep as fast as possible.  If lying on your side is how you normally sleep, lie on your side.  If lying on your back is how you sleep, then lie on your back.  Lying on your back will simply keep you from having to readjust later. Remember though.. Step 2: Chaos theory, is where you move toward next UNTIL you notice the images creating by themselves.  You can either create them yourself or wait for them to come in by themselves while still free-falling.  The point is, for you, once I notice chaos, I would move toward step 3.





> Once you start noticing illogical images and patterns (only the illogical ones signals the cue to move on!) making its way into your mind, then you’re ready to move to step three



If chaos has started already, you don't have to continue passively observing chaos.  Chaos coming in on its own is just the SIGNAL'ing CUE to let you know that the neocortex and frontal lobe are shutting down the reasoning centers, ergo putting the body to sleep.  So now YOUR job is to move to step 3, then step 4.  Since you have trouble keeping awareness.  I recommend you incorporate logic into step 5 

_(Remember, no more chaos for you at this point.. passively watching chaos at this stage will only cause you to fall deeper and deeper and into unconscious dreaming.  CREATING chaos at this point isn't necessary either because that will cause you to slip deeper and deeper and repeat the process  In your case though, it'll keep you awake.  Chaos is only meant to be used as a signaling cue for beginners.  For those that want to fall deeper, Creating chaos is only to be used to deepen the state.)_

Step 5.  Try using this..





> One thing I’ve found that helps me is by mentally repeating, in between breaths, “I remain consciously aware as my body falls to sleep”. If you want to maintain logic, reasoning and awareness as your body falls to sleep, - in between breaths, mentally count down from 100 - 1. You should shift into sleep paralysis before you get to 1. If you haven't shifted yet, Count down again. The shift is unmistakable. You may feel vibrations, a wave of energy sweep over you, a lead blanket being pulled over you, or you may even notice your hearing shift from external to internal (real time hearing). All of these are indicators that you've successfully (and consciously) entered into sleep paralysis.



I think maybe where you're getting caught up on as well is when to use chaos.  I wouldn't recommend trying to initiate it myself unless you're good at catching yourself before you hit the ground, and are good at passively observing your own thoughts.  But remember, it's only meant to be used as a signal'ing cue in step 2 to LET you know it's time to move to step 3.


Friend, does that help?

----------


## rynkrt3

> For the most part that's about the jist of it.  If I can add a few more tweaks, it'd be this:
> 
> Step 1: Freefall.  What you're doing here is trying to go to sleep as fast as possible.  If lying on your side is how you normally sleep, lie on your side.  If lying on your back is how you sleep, then lie on your back.  Lying on your back will simply keep you from having to readjust later. Remember though.. Step 2: Chaos theory, is where you move toward next UNTIL you notice the images creating by themselves.  You can either create them yourself or wait for them to come in by themselves while still free-falling.  The point is, for you, once I notice chaos, I would move toward step 3.
> 
> If chaos has started already, you don't have to continue passively observing chaos.  Chaos coming in on its own is just the SIGNAL'ing CUE to let you know that the neocortex and frontal lobe are shutting down the reasoning centers, ergo putting the body to sleep.  So now YOUR job is to move to step 3, then step 4.  Since you have trouble keeping awareness.  I recommend you incorporate logic into step 5 
> 
> _(Remember, no more chaos for you at this point.. passively watching chaos at this stage will only cause you to fall deeper and deeper and into unconscious dreaming.  CREATING chaos at this point isn't necessary either because that will cause you to slip deeper and deeper and repeat the process  In your case though, it'll keep you awake.  Chaos is only meant to be used as a signaling cue for beginners.  For those that want to fall deeper, Creating chaos is only to be used to deepen the state.)_
> 
> Step 5.  Try using this..
> ...



Helps a ton man, cleared up every question I had.  Thank you  ::D:

----------


## AndresLD

Alright so last night, I put my alarm across my room, and set it to 4:30 am. I put it in a place where I would have to stand up from bed, walk to where my alarm is, and turn it off. Somehow, when I woke up this morning, my cell phone (which is my alarm) was lying beside me, in my bed. So basically, I stood up, turned my alarm off, and went back to bed unconsciously, therefore I was not able to attempt your technique  :Sad: .

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## Jeff777

> Alright so last night, I put my alarm across my room, and set it to 4:30 am. I put it in a place where I would have to stand up from bed, walk to where my alarm is, and turn it off. Somehow, when I woke up this morning, my cell phone (which is my alarm) was lying beside me, in my bed. So basically, I stood up, turned my alarm off, and went back to bed unconsciously, therefore I was not able to attempt your technique .



Aww, haha.  Happened to me on a number of occasions.  Just give 'er another go.   ::goodjob2::

----------


## quorthonafull

*





 Originally Posted by AndresLD


Alright so last night, I put my alarm across my room, and set it to 4:30 am. I put it in a place where I would have to stand up from bed, walk to where my alarm is, and turn it off. Somehow, when I woke up this morning, my cell phone (which is my alarm) was lying beside me, in my bed. So basically, I stood up, turned my alarm off, and went back to bed unconsciously, therefore I was not able to attempt your technique .



I have the same problem (3 days in a row, I hope the next will be better). Today I didn't even wake up (or I don't remember).*

----------


## rynkrt3

All my help questions have been responded to, I'm now ready to start tinkering with this until I'm a master WILD'r!  ::D: 

I do, however, have a curiosity question.  To Jeff777, how long, using this method, did it take you to be able to have WILD's almost any time you attempted?

----------


## Jeff777

> All my help questions have been responded to, I'm now ready to start tinkering with this until I'm a master WILD'r! 
> 
> I do, however, have a curiosity question.  To Jeff777, how long, using this method, did it take you to be able to have WILD's almost any time you attempted?



Well I've been playing with the MABA (Mind Awake, Body Asleep) state since early 2007.  Over the course of several years of being aware of the process, I developed this technique as an offshoot from it.  I have a while to go before I'm at mastery level but I would probably say it took me around 1.5 - 2 years to get to the point of having at least one WILD per night using the steps laid herein this thread.

Good luck.   :wink2:

----------


## rynkrt3

2 years using this?  Fuuuuu.....

----------


## Jeff777

> 2 years using this?  Fuuuuu.....



Haha, well everyone is different.  And I always say you should never compare yourself to anyone other than the person you were yesterday.  But if you want to truly master a skill.. say soccer.. how long does it take someone?  Days?  Weeks?  Or years to be able to play in the world cup?  :wink2:

----------


## rynkrt3

Sorry mate, 1 last question.  Your relating chaos and image patterns.  With me, I don't really see images, but I do start having chaos thoughts.  Is this still the same cue to continue to the next steps?

----------


## Jeff777

> Sorry mate, 1 last question.  Your relating chaos and image patterns.  With me, I don't really see images, but I do start having chaos thoughts.  Is this still the same cue to continue to the next steps?



Yup.  Some think things some see things.  Either are representations of the reasoning centers shutting down.. in a manner of speaking.

----------


## bakbaba

My alarm clock has been failing to wake me up these days... makes it harder to WBTB.

----------


## rynkrt3

Tried this with a WBTB after 5 hours of sleep.  I lay in bed for about 3 minutes when I noticed chaos set in.  Weird thoughts would come and go, but not continuous.  I let that happen for about 2-3 minutes then rolled over to my back.  I began the breathing step, I did that for a few minutes then just fell asleep  :tongue2:

----------


## AndresLD

I was able to do WBTB, stayed awake for about half an hour. When I went back to sleep I started day dreaming, and after a while I started noticing the illogical thoughts. The only one that I remember was something about the Lion King and Hamlet, how they were kinda similar. Eventually I fell asleep unconsciously, but I will keep trying  :smiley:

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## Jeff777

> I was able to do WBTB, stayed awake for about half an hour. When I went back to sleep I started day dreaming, and after a while I started noticing the illogical thoughts. The only one that I remember was something about the Lion King and Hamlet, how they were kinda similar. Eventually I fell asleep unconsciously, but I will keep trying



Try incorporating logic.  See the bullet points in Step 5.  The illogical thoughts is just a cue to let you know it's time to move to the next step.

----------


## lemonDrops

i've made it! I couldn't sleep for about an hour. But i wanted to sleep further because i needed some more sleep.
Then i decided to try the free-falling technique. I've done that before, but not knowing what it was.
So i layed still for a while. Let my mind do what it wanted to think. I don't remember what random thoughts i had, because i gave them no attention!
I didn't intend to WILD, but at some point i 'catched' my mind from falling deeper. It was the moment when sleep paralysis set in.
Sensations were going through my whole body and i was lifted a bit. As i was set back into my bed, i knew i was now dreaming. Opened my eyes and voila!

----------


## Jeff777

> i've made it! I couldn't sleep for about an hour. But i wanted to sleep further because i needed some more sleep.
> Then i decided to try the free-falling technique. I've done that before, but not knowing what it was.
> So i layed still for a while. Let my mind do what it wanted to think. I don't remember what random thoughts i had, because i gave them no attention!
> I didn't intend to WILD, but at some point i 'catched' my mind from falling deeper. It was the moment when sleep paralysis set in.
> Sensations were going through my whole body and i was lifted a bit. As i was set back into my bed, i knew i was now dreaming. Opened my eyes and voila!



Congratulations mate!   :boogie:  Where do you think most people mess up on this technique at and what would you recommend for them to combat that problem?  :smiley:

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## quorthonafull

*I mess up when having to wake up:  I know I can do it, but first I need to get over that trouble.*

----------


## Taffy

Wait... You can induce SP at any time, just to practice getting into it before attempting WILD? I thought you had to be in REM. I've never tried WILD before, but I might because this tutorial sounds awesome.

----------


## AndresLD

> Try incorporating logic.  See the bullet points in Step 5.  The illogical thoughts is just a cue to let you know it's time to move to the next step.



I tried to, but I got carried away by my thoughts xP. My alarm didn't wake me up this morning, but I will set 2 alarms tonight, that should wake me up  :smiley: .
I'm planning to stick to this technique for a while, most of my WILDs have been achieved through this technique basically, so might as well  ::D: !

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## lemonDrops

> Congratulations mate!   Where do you think most people mess up on this technique at and what would you recommend for them to combat that problem?



I think it's impatience. If you are trying to WILD, you will fail because you consciously try. Falling asleep requires that you let go your awareness. This should be the part doing free falling. The trick now is, that you recognize the inset of sleep paralysis or the dream entry.

Just my 2 cents, and for myself i've had only 2 successful WILDs at all.
It's all about trying and experimenting for yourself, everybody's different.

To summarize what i did for my last WILD:
I slept for about 3-4 hours, was drinking all night. So i think i had no REM at all. Then, i couldn't fall asleep anymore, so many things kept my mind busy. I was totally alert, but my body was tired. At first, i allowed my breathing to go deeper, and tried not of thinking anything (like void meditation) soon my mind got cought by random thoughts, i just let it go with it. Free-falling. Then i cought the inset of sleep paralysis, and just observed it passively. try not to interrupt it. you will notice when it's over. Don't take this for reality, you will most likely have a false awakening

I will make an afternoon nap later
EDIT: Failed but had a good nap  :wink2:

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## Schlachtfeld

This will be perfect for me! I haven't been on here in a while because I decided to take a break from all things lucid to try and rejuvenate my poor, over-worked brain. WBTB is my main problem so this, hopefully, should work for me. I'm quite used to observing my illogical thoughts so perhaps I have a head start  ::D:

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## AndresLD

> I will set 2 alarms tonight, that should wake me up .



I was wrong... slept through both of them :S! I will try something new tonight, like putting it inside a sock or something

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## rynkrt3

So as soon as I notice illogical thoughts should I go to my back and begin deep breathing, or do I need to let the illogical thoughts run for a little while, to give my neocortex time to almost shut down.

Put simpler.  Do I begin deep breathing as soon as I noticed chaos?

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## quorthonafull

*





 Originally Posted by AndresLD


I was wrong... slept through both of them :S! I will try something new tonight, like putting it inside a sock or something



Had the same problem today, but with 3. Nice tip, I'll try it.*

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## rynkrt3

Set 2 alarms last night, woke up this morning and they has been turned off, I have no recollection of turning them off.  DAMNIT, I want to try this but can never get up with an alarm lol.

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## quorthonafull

*I woke up last night, but I failed anyway (I fell asleep at step 1-2). Trying another time this night.*

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## AndresLD

> I woke up last night, but I failed anyway (I fell asleep at step 1-2). Trying another time this night.



About the same. Will try again tonight as well.

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## quorthonafull

*Round 2: Fail. Same as yesterday. I'll lay on my back next time.*

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## Sesquipedalian

I got pretty close the last few days. This seems to be a promising technique. I will keep trying this out, because few other methods have had much success for me.

Here's hoping!

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## quorthonafull

*Two fails to the list (?). But now, tha main problem is a freaking great song wandering in my head over and over, specially the epic "I like to cut the song in half" part with epic Dan Sawnö epic vocals at the epic 2:30 minutes mark.





EPIC (?)

Now seriously, trying another time tonight.*

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## AndresLD

I've been sleeping through my alarms, and those times when I actually wake up I go back to sleep right away because I'm so tired.
I'm wondering whether we should make a "Jeff777's Free-falling WILD technique Progress" thread to, as the same suggests, share our experiences and progress with this technique?

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## rynkrt3

> I've been sleeping through my alarms, and those times when I actually wake up I go back to sleep right away because I'm so tired.
> I'm wondering whether we should make a "Jeff777's Free-falling WILD technique Progress" thread to, as the same suggests, share our experiences and progress with this technique?



I think that making that thread is a great idea, as this is a great technique, I just haven't been waking up to try this.

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## quorthonafull

*





 Originally Posted by AndresLD


I was wrong... slept through both of them :S! I will try something new tonight, like putting it inside a sock or something



This actually works quite well (and is really annoying, ergo, not snooze-friendly)*

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## lemonDrops

i have done it again.. the main thing is to be alert enough to passively observe your state of body so that you cannot fall too deep, but in the same time let your mind freefall. Thats kind of weird. Just try and experiment on your own! But at first, get out of bed...

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## quorthonafull

*A couple of fails more, but related to sleep problems (I was quite tired after going to Slayer's concert).*

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## AndresLD

> i have done it again.. the main thing is to be alert enough to passively observe your state of body so that you cannot fall too deep, but in the same time let your mind freefall. Thats kind of weird. Just try and experiment on your own! But at first, get out of bed...



Congrats  ::D: 
I've been busy lately, haven't even been writing my dreams down. As soon as I'm done with school (soon) I will be focusing more on lucid dreaming, and this technique  :smiley:

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## MBA42

I wonder if just going through a song lyrics could induce the same effect. IE a song stuck in your head.

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## ultranova

Hey, I don't know if it's because of technique or something else but I had a very long LD partially using this technique. I was just taking deep breaths and let me mind "free fall". I'll take yet to confirm it, is it because of technique,  but anyway thank you! I haven't had a LD in long time and this one was amazing and I had like 80% of control over it.

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## AndresLD

> Hey, I don't know if it's because of technique or something else but I had a very long LD partially using this technique. I was just taking deep breaths and let me mind "free fall". I'll take yet to confirm it, is it because of technique,  but anyway thank you! I haven't had a LD in long time and this one was amazing and I had like 80% of control over it.



WILDs, in my personal experience, are usually the "best quality" lucid dreams. They feel more real, I feel more lucid, more aware, and I can have greater control than I do with DILDs (:!
Congrats on the success!

----------


## AndresLD

I had my first success with this technique this morning  ::D: ! I woke up from a dream, and decided to attempt right away. I just paid attention to the chaos thoughts, and made sure to recognize the SP wave. The transition went as in any other WILD I've had before. 
Thanks Jeff  :smiley:

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## dakotahnok

*So I forgot to post that I did have a WILD with this technique. It was a few nights ago. It was the quickest WULD I have ever had.*

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## quorthonafull

*Nice job guys!

Today, after a week of pure laziness and sleep problems, I tried again and got to SP. When free-falling, I noticed the hearing shift, the vibrations and all those stuff, but then I didn't remember what to do so I screwed up the whole attepmt.

Looking forward for the next time!*

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## Jeff777

Good job guys!

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## quorthonafull

*I failed today, kinda messed up when in step 2.

Tonight is the night!*

----------


## glucose

Hey Jeff, 

This is a very interesting idea. I've had a bit of luck with WILDs over the last few months (since I've been consistent with my LDing practice), but it always took so long! And though I've had a few now, besides a couple of DEILDs, they've only worked once I'd given up and tried to fall asleep. On a couple of occasions I was zoned out for ages, and suddenly I noticed the physical sensations of SP which essentially woke my mind up again and allowed me to transition nicely into a LD.

Prior to reading this tutorial, I've noticed the chaos thoughts stage on many an occasion, so I like that I'll be able to use that as a cue. I've also noticed that whenever I recognise them, they disappear almost instantly. They're usually images - I always thought of them as "memory foot prints" or something like that which I've read elsewhere in WILD guides which regard them as your mind dipping into and out of sleep quickly, indicating an imminent LD. I was wondering if you knew whether these memory footprints/illogical thoughts are one and the same? If so, I think your explanation seems more logical.

I'll try this method for a good few weeks and report back any success/road blocks.

----------


## glucose

Acutally, one more question:

During stage 5, am I right in assuming this would be a good time to use (mindfulness) meditation techniques i.e. focusing on physical sensations/sounds, in order to keep the mind awake while the body drifts off? Or would you say it's more important to repeat some kind of mantra or do some mental maths? 

Cheers!

Lucas

----------


## glucose

So I tried it this morn. I woke up, went to the loo, came back to bed. Lay on my side for a while and looked out for illogical thought. I think I fell asleep, but I woke up a few minutes later and noticed those chaos thoughts. At that point I lay on my back (with my head on it's side) and started to take deeper/longer breaths. I was at this for probably 10 minutes before I noticed a tingling starting in my lower limbs and moving up through my body. I've felt this many times before when trying to WILD, but I do think this was the quickest I've got there. However, this is where I've always got stuck.

I feel SP starting to come over me, but at that point my breathing starts getting a bit stuttered (when it was perfectly smooth before I felt the tingling) and my body feels like it's getting a hot flush (I've heard this is a sign of impending SP). However, I think possibly due to my excitement, my body remains in this state for aaaaaaaages. I feel my body is tingling, I get waves of heat, my breath stutters every now and again but that's it. I can't seem to progress to full SP (which I'm definitely not in cos if I try and move a finger it feels a bit stiff but it still moves).

Any advice on this issue? I did feel my eyes move around a fair bit during my stuttered breath, even though I didn't see any HI. It's quite frustrating because I've been in that state so many times, but never has it fully taken me into SP. 

As I mentioned before though, Jeff, I'm pretty sure this was the quickest I've ever got that far, which means the practise will be a lot more effective, so thank you!!

and thanks in advance for any advice  :smiley:

----------


## AndresLD

This morning I put an alarm at 7:00. I woke up, hit snooze, and decided to try WILD right away. Chaos thoughts came in as soon as I closed my eyes, and I was completely aware when SP hit me. I made the transition into the dream, stood up in my dream bed, did a RC, and found out my nose was stuffed (had trouble breathing), and for some reason I decided to go back to bed.

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## quorthonafull

*Having problems with the alarm (again).*

----------


## LucidDreamGod

This sounds really similiar to an idea that I used to have called "mind melting". Where I would just think about whatever came to mind first no matter how crazy it was, and just go from there. It did lead me to sp after 8 minutes one time after a wbtb but I didn't transition successfully, probably because I was too excited.

----------


## VladP

I have a little problem with the Chaos part...
Right after I lay down I begin to have illogical thoughts. This doesn't happen only when I lay down, though. When I do maths during the day I think of apples, lions and a lot other things. This happens with ANYTHING I do. I am writing this right now, but I'm not thinking about it, I think about stars, play buttons and carnivorous apples. In fact, I think of carnivorous apples all the time. That why my avatar is one.
And no, the thing about apples is not a joke.

----------


## Jeff777

> I have a little problem with the Chaos part...
> Right after I lay down I begin to have illogical thoughts. This doesn't happen only when I lay down, though. When I do maths during the day I think of apples, lions and a lot other things. This happens with ANYTHING I do. I am writing this right now, but I'm not thinking about it, I think about stars, play buttons and carnivorous apples. In fact, I think of carnivorous apples all the time. That why my avatar is one.
> And no, the thing about apples is not a joke.



You just have an active imagination.. or ADHD  :tongue2: .  That's different from when the part of your brain controlling logic and reasoning is _"shutting down"._

----------


## Electronium

I believe I had my first WILD with this technique.

I was having a strange dream that I decided to wake up from this morning. It was early and I was still drowsy, so I went back to sleep. I thought randomly of your avatar, Jeff, and that got me holding on to consciousness a bit more. I don't remember a thing of the process, but I quickly got into the dream and was lucid from the start! This dream also happened to last longer than my typical 2-minute lucids, so I have to thank you.

One question, though. What do you do to keep from paying too much attention to your images without ignoring them completely? If I could figure that out, I may be able to get more into the technique and actually have lucid dreams more often.

Thanks.

----------


## quorthonafull

*I fell asleep when trying last time...*

----------


## LCB

This is a good guide, but I have a question. When letting my mind wander, does that mean I can't think at all or something? I mean, whenever I try to let my mind wander I end up thinking about something else and throw off my course. The most I got out of this without thinking of anything was seeing extremely faint images of swirling blue and green colors. That's it. If anyone can help, please reply. :c

----------


## Raish

ive been trying this madly, every night. but i cant figure out what you mean by "illogical thoughts." 
and the problem is when i let my mind "unwind" i always start getting pressured and begin winding up more.

how do i fix this? this seems like a great method, i just cant seem to fall asleep with it. i always give up, and just fall asleep normally.

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## andante

This WILD technique is amazing. I had 2 LDs in the last 2 days, and this morning I had i LD through wild and chain 6 more LDs through DEILD. Before practicing this technique i had only 2 LD through WILD. I totally recommend this technique. Thank you Jeff!

----------


## andante

I had another LD this morning using this technique, 4 WILDs in 4 days!To induce hypnagogia i mentally chant the hooponopono mantra, in 10 min i go to a very deep meditative state, then i roll to my side i stop chanting and focus on breathing properly. In 5-10 min i am lucid dreaming. The hooponopono mantra for me works every single time do transform a nightmare DC into a DC aligned with my true core being. I just have to chant 2-3 times to the DC and its done!

----------


## Sugabombs

I did this last night and it really worked(I got too scared when I entered SP though)! Thanks a lot for sharing this tutorial!!  ::banana::

----------


## rynkrt3

> I had another LD this morning using this technique, 4 WILDs in 4 days!To induce hypnagogia i mentally chant the hooponopono mantra, in 10 min i go to a very deep meditative state, then i roll to my side i stop chanting and focus on breathing properly. In 5-10 min i am lucid dreaming. The hooponopono mantra for me works every single time do transform a nightmare DC into a DC aligned with my true core being. I just have to chant 2-3 times to the DC and its done!



What is hooponopono mantra?

----------


## andante

> What is hooponopono mantra?



 I am sorry Please forgive me I love you I thank you.

----------


## rynkrt3

> I am sorry Please forgive me I love you I thank you.



How does that help produce HI?

----------


## FireDevil

I was thinking about this technique the other day and I was pondering the idea of how much easier a nap time WILD would be with this technique. I don't know about you guys, but I am never able to relax enough or clear my mind during an attempt at a nap WILD. This technique would make it much easier for me because I wouldn't have to really think about clearing my mind because I can just let the 'chaos' roll on in. And with this kind of WILD you are basically just using the bodies remedy of falling asleep except you are concious while doing it, and when I'm napping I pretty much just want to fall asleep and this allows me to do it because I don't really have to put much  thought into the process. Thanks for this technique Jeff and I will hopefully try this tonight, as well as tomorrow during a nap.  :smiley:

----------


## rynkrt3

Tried this during a WBTB last night.  

I woke up, went to the restroom then lay back down.  I did reverse blinking for a minute or two thn chaos started to roll in fast, I was falling deep, I then re adjusted to my back.  Started slow semi deep breathing for a few minutes until it became more natural.  I was feeling very relaxed, I started to count my exhales, restarting when I got to 10.  I must have done that for 20 minutes then just gave up.


Did I make some big mistake?

Edit:  while counting my exhales my hands and feet were numb, not tingles but they were numb, not paralyzed though.

----------


## FireDevil

I had the same thing happen to me rynkrt3. I was doing a WBTB and I got up stretched a bit and hopped back into bed. I could feel the illogical thoughts just running rampantly inside my mind. I had my legs and arms go numb because of just staying in one position for a while and not much happened afterwards. I then switched to manually deep breathing and then allowing the body to take over. This worked, but I couldn't make any progress to onset the sleep paralysis.

----------


## rynkrt3

> I had the same thing happen to me rynkrt3. I was doing a WBTB and I got up stretched a bit and hopped back into bed. I could feel the illogical thoughts just running rampantly inside my mind. I had my legs and arms go numb because of just staying in one position for a while and not much happened afterwards. I then switched to manually deep breathing and then allowing the body to take over. This worked, but I couldn't make any progress to onset the sleep paralysis.



Sounds like my experience in a  nutshell.

----------


## Dreamer4127

1. Do you have your eyes open or closed for this?  ::?: 
2. Can this be used before falling asleep instead of WBTB? 
Thanks  :smiley:

----------


## FireDevil

hopefully closed unless you sleep with your eyes open :p And if you are to use it before a wake back to bed it is usually just to get used to the technique. But, with any WILD it is best with a WBTB if you are going for a lucid dream.

----------


## rynkrt3

Jeff777, I know you probably wont respond to this but I have a question.  How long do I let chaos happen before I stop it and do the breathing?  I have been stopping it as soon as I notice it, is that wrong?  Should I let it happen for longer?

----------


## andante

> How does that help produce HI?



If you chant a mantra for a few minutes and concentrate only chanting the mantra, you will achieve a very deep relax state of being, and in that state of being HI is natural induce. You can try it and see if it works for you!

----------


## rynkrt3

> If you chant a mantra for a few minutes and concentrate only chanting the mantra, you will achieve a very deep relax state of being, and in that state of being HI is natural induce. You can try it and see if it works for you!



I'll give it a go.

Thanks  :smiley:

----------


## Drax

Holy crap I realized I am absolutely terrible at coming up with illogical thoughts or visualizations  :Sad:  I suck so badly at it. I literally could only come up with 2 things initially, then I became to alert because I kept focusing so I could think up more. Also so far I haven't noticed any illogical thoughts during SP.

----------


## Ctharlhie

It's really simple actually, don't try to come up with things like bears sailing in tea cups on a honey ocean, because it's not sustainable or really realistic to be lying there trying to think like that. Literally just imagine the voices of you friends and family saying little snippets of conversation, after a little while your brain takes over, and eventually you'll experience more extreme hypnagogia.

----------


## rynkrt3

> Holy crap I realized I am absolutely terrible at coming up with illogical thoughts or visualizations  I suck so badly at it. I literally could only come up with 2 things initially, then I became to alert because I kept focusing so I could think up more. Also so far I haven't noticed any illogical thoughts during SP.



I never make my own, as I relax and get sleepy they come up on their own.  

Also, the illogical thoughts don't occur during SP, they occur way way before...

----------


## Dreamer4127

I can get the HI but never illogical images/thoughts? Suggestions?  :smiley: 
I have tried thinking it up myself too but i didnt know what to think so it just failed

----------


## rynkrt3

> I can get the HI but never illogical images/thoughts? Suggestions? 
> I have tried thinking it up myself too but i didnt know what to think so it just failed



My situation is the other way around lol, I always have illogical thoughts and sometimes images but I never get HI.

I wish Jeff777 would read through his thread and offer some advice..

----------


## AurumKnight

Wow, this guide actually makes sense to me.  I can't say I've read a guide that details the "illogical thoughts" before.  I tried it, but I read over this tutorial again and I think my problem was that I didn't "catch" myself.  I feel like I got farther though.  I'm gonna see how this works tonight after I've slept some.  Thanks!

----------


## quorthonafull

*Last night I was thinking like every night, when boom! SP hit me. I am not using any technique (I wasn't thinking about LDs these days) but It was pretty much like this guide.

Too bad It was at midnight, before sleeping (at least) a couple of cycles. Looking forward excited!*

----------


## Naiya

I need to get back into WILDing again. Terribly out of practice. I think I'll be trying your method.  :smiley:

----------


## AndresLD

I need to get back into LDing again xP. I was gone for 2 months, didn't write my dreams down, so of course my recall sucks right now, but I think I'll try this technique tonight  :smiley:

----------


## lawilahd

good tutorial, one question tho, you say to mimic your breathing patterns of when you are asleep by breathing deeply, but I have read elsewhere that during REM sleep or dream sleep, our breathing is a bit more shallow and fast and is the lightest stage of sleep. Is this contradictory to your guide because I'd assume its different for everyone.

----------


## lawilahd

oh and also, you say that if we started this technique not on our back, we should then lie on our back for step 3, but wouldn't moving break you out of this whole attempt to get to SP?

----------


## Ctharlhie

I think I finally really understand why this is so effective. Rather than wait for ages for something to happen as most WILD tutorials suggest (and let's face it, there's no guarantee, we've all had the experience of just lying there for half an hour getting increasingly uncomfortable) this takes you straight into sleep... and then gives you just enough consciousness to get you into a dream, lucid.

----------


## jasonresno

Step 3 says to "move to lay on your back" if we weren't already. Won't that big of a movement just wake me up?

----------


## Jeff777

> Step 3 says to "move to lay on your back" if we weren't already. Won't that big of a movement just wake me up?



The first few steps weren't meant to make you fall asleep.  After step 3 is preparation for sleep.  The steps prior to that is getting you into state/trance.

----------


## jasonresno

> The first few steps weren't meant to make you fall asleep.  After step 3 is preparation for sleep.  The steps prior to that is getting you into state/trance.



Thank you for your quick response. One more question, if I may. So after the final step, where we are mimicking our breathing and no longer thinking logically, what should be the next step for the first time WILDer? Will I just wake up in a dream?

----------

I don't understand what to do after you enter SP. Cause I've entered SP a few times before only to open my eyes and find out I'm still in bed. Isn't there something telling me I'm dreaming even BEFORE I do R.C?

----------


## Jeff777

> Thank you for your quick response. One more question, if I may. So after the final step, where we are mimicking our breathing and no longer thinking logically, what should be the next step for the first time WILDer? Will I just wake up in a dream?



Not necessarily.  This technique is just meant to get you into sleep paralysis (which is the hardest part about WILD'ing).  Keep practicing until you have become proficient at achieving sleep paralysis.  Once you've done that, then you can time your attempts with WBTB so that you can take advantage of your REM cycles (lucid dreams only occur in REM).  

With that being said, I feel the need to re-emphasize that this method is purely for inducing _sleep paralysis.







 Originally Posted by MrBlonde


I don't understand what to do after you enter SP. Cause I've entered SP a few times before only to open my eyes and find out I'm still in bed. Isn't there something telling me I'm dreaming even BEFORE I do R.C?



I'm guessing you don't use WBTB's?


_

----------


## fOrceez

Hey Jeff, will you be planning to write any other WILD tutorials? Maybe one just purely on transition?

----------

> Not necessarily.  This technique is just meant to get you into sleep paralysis (which is the hardest part about WILD'ing).  Keep practicing until you have become proficient at achieving sleep paralysis.  Once you've done that, then you can time your attempts with WBTB so that you can take advantage of your REM cycles (lucid dreams only occur in REM).  
> 
> With that being said, I feel the need to re-emphasize that this method is purely for inducing _sleep paralysis.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you don't use WBTB's?
> 
> 
> _




Uh? How is that WBTB? I'm in my bed I'm nearing SP. I feel like my whole body is moving(like most if not all tut say) I stay still I open my eyes and low and behold I'm in my room again. RC and then I know for sure. What I really wanted to know is how come you didn't continue on with your tut about after you enter SP. You seem to have just stopped short.

----------


## lawilahd

Does this technique work without prior sleep eg. during night time right before actually sleeping, because I've had insomnia for the past few days for no apparent reason and would like to try WILD'ing at night.

----------


## fOrceez

> Does this technique work without prior sleep eg. during night time right before actually sleeping, because I've had insomnia for the past few days for no apparent reason and would like to try WILD'ing at night.



WILD is best done with about 4-7 hours of sleep prior or during an afternoon nap. 
But to answer your question, you CAN, but your lucid dream will be choppier and shorter.

----------


## Ctharlhie

> Uh? How is that WBTB? I'm in my bed I'm nearing SP. I feel like my whole body is moving(like most if not all tut say) I stay still I open my eyes and low and behold I'm in my room again. RC and then I know for sure. What I really wanted to know is how come you didn't continue on with your tut about after you enter SP. You seem to have just stopped short.



Are you absolutely sure you're entering sleep paralysis?

I you are then there are a variety of dream entry techniques you can try. Visualising tactile sensations on your body 'pulling' you into a dream, observing hypnagogia until it starts to form a dream scene (or speeding up the process by imagining a dream scene to enter). If you're more of an OBE/AP sort of guy you can try 'rolling' your non-physical body out of the bed without moving your physical body.

----------


## fgopl

_i have used this tech, but i don't know if this is to induce sp or induce a wild._

----------


## fOrceez

> i have used this tech, but i don't know if this is to induce sp or induce a wild.



This technique is to induce sp, which is used to induce a WILD.

----------


## Ctharlhie

> i have used this tech, but i don't know if this is to induce sp or induce a wild.



You'll find very few techniques for WILD that don't involve SP and you'll find none for inducing SP alone.

----------


## fgopl

_So what will I do after achieving sleep paralysis? I am yet to have my first luciD dream_

----------


## Playlaughdream

Thanks for sharing your expertise. When I read the title free falling I thought it was because of the feeling we can have after sleep paralysis before entering an OBE or WILD. But if I got it right you are teaching how to get to SP faster which is the hardest part in wilding. I tried that this morning but I already had enough sleep so it was difficult to have full SP. Can you do that any time of the day equally easy ?

----------


## fgopl

_I tried that and failed_

----------


## cyberetah

Can someone perhaps give a quick example of what an illogical thought would be? I want to make sure I have the right idea before going in, so that I don't just see something I THINK qualifies but doesn't actually.

I'll, for example, start off with a thought, and if someone would give an example of how it would become "illogical" or "chaotic", it'd be great.
Thought: I'm going out of school to pick up my brother. When I reach his school, I start heading home."
It's a very basic thought, feel free to add any details and describe in what way it would become "chaotic".

----------


## Marm

Thumbs up dude.

----------


## AndresLD

I gave it a shot this morning... and succeeded at reaching SP and making the transition. Sadly, all my WILDs start in my dream bed, which sometimes make it almost impossible to tell apart from reality. This morning's felt extremely real and I ended up going back to bed thinking I had failed, when I was in fact dreaming.

----------


## wRembrandt

The chaos theory works wonders for me, but I always fall too far and manage to lose consciousness. Does y'all know how to anchor myself or practice passive awareness.

Thanks!

----------


## Spyguy

'No WBTB required.' Just to be sure: this means that this technique can be used for DEILD right?

----------


## rynkrt3

Bump - I really wish Jeff would read through his own guide and answer some peoples questions.

Like my own - How do I mimic the bodys sleep breathing pattern when I have no idea what its like?

----------


## Jeff777

> Bump - I really wish Jeff would read through his own guide and answer some peoples questions.
> 
> Like my own - How do I mimic the bodys sleep breathing pattern when I have no idea what its like?



The body tends to breathe more deeply  when we are sleeping.  So as opposed to the moderate breaths you are taking now (take note of your own breathing at THIS moment), breathe deeper when you are mimic'ing.  But not uncomfortably so.. you don't want to take very deep breaths.. just somewhat longer ones than you normally take.   :wink2:

----------


## SleepLayer

Fuck yes.

----------


## Mancon

I never mentioned how great this technique is, or posted in this thread. Thanks, Jeff! It has definitely helped a lot of people  ::D: 

(If I posted in this thread before, I will feel like an idiot  ::lol:: )

----------


## AndresLD

I broke my 2 months long dryspell this morning using Free Fall WILD  ::D: !! I actually woke up at 3:00 AM to study for anatomy, and went back to bed at 4:00 AM and thought, heck, why not give it a shot. I think I lost consciousness for a little while, but eventually was able to catch myself before falling asleep  :smiley:

----------


## EW09

Going to try this tonight, I haven't had a lucid in months...well, even a year. At times this happens to me without trying, and the intense switch for me is like I'm falling which causes me to wake up being scared... Hopefully this will work!

Thanks

----------


## cupcakes

after the body is paralyzed, is there something in particular that has to be done to continue of does stuff just proceed on their own? (sorry if its silly :Cheeky: )

----------


## rynkrt3

Why does this thread keep dieing?

----------


## StingPT

I tried this method last night. All I can say is that I reached the vibrations that come before an SP, but I didnt enter it, because my bird just had some scream attack that made me unfocus on my anchor :S 

But still there has been a lot since I last entered an SP from a WILD. I will try this out again this night and I will put an isochronic tone to use as an anchor.

----------


## Sydney

I tried this last night as well. I failed.  :Sad:  I seem to get confused when you (Jeff777) say to have passive awareness of your thoughts. I've always thought that as being hard, because whenever I notice my thoughts, I always continue them without realizing it. And then once I try to "shake" them out of my mind, my mind goes blank for a bit, and then I think about something else again.

So like, I couldn't really tell when an illogical or weird thought/image came into my mind. I had so much trouble with just letting my thoughts go by.

Any tips?

----------


## Chevaughn

> I meant, create your thoughts first, and then let them drift away.



When I create my thoughts, and let them drift away, I always get a mini shock/jolt of awareness, similar to what is experienced when I am drifting off to sleep and someone in the same room speaks loudly, and I snap into awareness.

Should I try to get these "shocks", or will they keep me awake?

----------


## are446

This seems to be the best WILD completion then I'll try it  :smiley:

----------


## tommmy

I love you, it worked. i have ADD and find it diffucult to empty my mind, but with this techinque i didnt had to, so i tried it last night when i was going to sleep, i layd on my side and letting my mind wander, after 10 minutes i suddenly felt my hart going faster and faster, then i felt a tingeling trough my hole body, but because my hart was beating so fast so began my breathing, i tried to relax my breathing but i just couldnt, after like 10 seconds the feeling suddenly stopped, i knew my mind noticed i wasnt asleep, so after 10 min i felt it again but the same happend. what should i do? i just cant keep my breathing relaxed.

----------


## gtmj115

Just started learning about LD this week, read this today and immediately tried it, felt myself slipping into SP but got so excited that I came out of it. I am sure with some practice this will be an extremely effective technique.

----------


## fOrceez

Bump because this technique is great.

----------


## Spyguy

Well, it wasn't a WILD-attempt at all, but I did experience something similiar yesterday. I was in my bed, just drifting off to sleep like usual. I remembered this and decided to speed up the falling asleep-progress by 'free-falling with a weighted jacket on'. It worked. Got all kind of weird visuals, practically lost awareness, then suddenly got it back. I got some kind of shock through my stomach when my awareness got back, it felt kind of funny  :tongue2:  It was my initial falling asleep though, otherwise I would've kept going, but I decided to just fall asleep after it

----------


## xxdanxx

I don't understadn what he means about an 'illogical thought', is it just a thought or image that can't happen in reality? for example flying or something I don't quite understand. If someone can post what it actually is.

----------


## Ctharlhie

> I don't understadn what he means about an 'illogical thought', is it just a thought or image that can't happen in reality? for example flying or something I don't quite understand. If someone can post what it actually is.



Incoherent and dreamlike, to a certain degree everyone experiences some scrambled thoughts and images upon sleep onset whether they remember them or not. If you haven't experienced this then next time you fall asleep try to be more aware of the hypnagogic state.
I find that imagining people I know saying random stuff for a few minutes brings on illogical thinking and the hypnagogic state quite nicely  :smiley:

----------


## Chevaughn

I too don't understand what an illogical thought is.

Is this one? :
To go cat supermarket I chemistry.

----------


## Spyguy

> I too don't understand what an illogical thought is.
> 
> Is this one? :
> To go cat supermarket I chemistry.



Yep, that's possible. It's a thought that makes no sense at all. When you recognize it you'll be like 'Wait...what? Why on earth did I think that?' Don't pay too much attention to your thoughts while listening for them, because that will keep you awake and prevent them for coming.

----------


## Marm

> I don't understadn what he means about an 'illogical thought'



Something that doesn't make logical sense - such as phasing through walls etc. As you move closer and closer to the transition between consciousness and dreaming, the logic centre of your brain begins to shut down.

----------


## Chevaughn

> Yep, that's possible. It's a thought that makes no sense at all. When you recognize it you'll be like 'Wait...what? Why on earth did I think that?' Don't pay too much attention to your thoughts while listening for them, because that will keep you awake and prevent them for coming.



Oh, but wouldn't it keep me awake if I try to come up with illogical thoughts on my own?

----------


## fOrceez

Not if you don't force them. Let it 'flow'.

----------


## Spyguy

BTW guys, just something worth mentioning, this free-falling is very useful for meditation as well. Don't do it while laying down, because that is a guaranteed falling asleep  :tongue2:  Unless you want to fall asleep ofcourse

----------


## xxdanxx

If you wake up during the early morning, how long does it personally take for you to get illogical thoughts.

----------


## DinoSawr

> If you wake up during the early morning, how long does it personally take for you to get illogical thoughts.



I'm certainly not an expert, but I do believe that when you are WILDing, you don't really have a sense of time, and if you do you will probably not be successful as you are too aware.

----------


## Lucidnoob01

Whats an ideal time to wake up to try induce this.

----------


## fOrceez

> Whats an ideal time to wake up to try induce this.



before your REM cycles  :smiley:  So you'll have to find your REM cycles. Usually when we wake up in the night, it's right after REM.

----------


## Chevaughn

> before your REM cycles  So you'll have to find your REM cycles. Usually when we wake up in the night, it's right after REM.



So, if I try to WILD when I wake up (which is after REM) in the middle of the night, would I still be able to WILD (knowing that another REM period might occur)?

----------


## fOrceez

It depends which part of the night you wake up in and how many hours of sleep you got, i suppose.

----------


## Chevaughn

> It depends which part of the night you wake up in and how many hours of sleep you got, i suppose.



k.
thnx!

----------


## Bob4o

Last night i tried this when i was going to sleep even though i knew i would hardly succeed since i am just going to bed and not WBTB-ing, but it worked!I was in a forest saw a group of people pushed them away started flying grabbed a woman threw her on the ground and flew over the whole forest and 1 min later the dream fell apart.I think it works yeah going to try it this night too GREAT METHOD!

----------


## Wonderer777

Hi Jeff, I have a question for you, I have tried using your free fall technique, everything works great but for one thing.  When I get illogical thoughts and images, they seem to last for a few short seconds only, and I get snapped right out into controlled awake state, with logical thinking.  Is there a way to elongate that for me?  So that I can continue being in that state?

----------


## IchimaruTaichou

Has anyone tried combining this tech with crazyinsanes CAN-WILD? seems like it would be a good idea, might make a thread on it but anyone? input, thanks :smiley:

----------


## benzilla04

> I've made it! I couldn't sleep for about an hour. But i wanted to sleep further because i needed some more sleep.
> Then i decided to try the free-falling technique. I've done that before, but not knowing what it was.
> So i layed still for a while. Let my mind do what it wanted to think. I don't remember what random thoughts i had, because i gave them no attention!
> I didn't intend to WILD, but at some point I 'catched' my mind from falling deeper. It was the moment when sleep paralysis set in. Sensations were going through my whole body and i was lifted a bit. As i was set back into my bed, i knew i was now dreaming. Opened my eyes and voila!



I  haven't OBEd yet but I done this the other day. I was awake but kinda asleep (well i wasnt) my mind was just esle where and i wasn't paying attention. as soon as i noticed what was happening, SP started to kicked in but i started shitting myself so it stopped  :Sad:  lol

----------


## Jeff777

:-)

----------


## JacksDreams

wow i know little about lucid dreaming and have never read this post, but i always used to try make myself think illogical thoughts to help me sleep quicker.

----------


## OwenLucid

Wow can't WAIT to try this with all the positive feedback, get ready for my first WILD guys!  ::banana::

----------


## supernaut76

I tried this yesterday and I sense I was close but no dice. Interesting as I think I was intuitively doing this when I had my first lucid dreams aged 15-16. The trouble was I couldn't get myself to relax - common problem with WBTB. Also I think my wake cycle was not optimally timed - only sleep 5 hours and disturbed in between. Seemed like my super long dream periods occurred several hours later. Seemed like when I switched to breathing the imagery also ceased ( although I could feel a sensation in my body indicating the beginnings of sleep paralysis it never fully materialised ) Then I had to do the illogical weighted jacket thing and cycled between the two. Finally I got fed up and rolled over, went to sleep.

Next time I'm going to try without moving. Will have an auto-shutdown alarm and go from there. Also it seemed like using some of the dream imagery I was having at the time was helping with getting more illogical and dream like.

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## Nivv

This may well be a good technique for me. I started focusing on LDing at the beginning of June, and I've become lucid around 10 times (with 6 proper LDs as a result). The majority of these were WILDs, but I've never intentionally gone into SP; I've just found myself in SP and been able to WILD from there. This is often because I spot how dreamlike and illogical my thoughts are as I'm right on the verge of sleeping (so a little later than this guide suggests), although it's certainly not consistent.

But anyways, I'm good at spotting illogical thoughts and good at moving from SP to an LD so this may be something worth trying. Many thanks!

----------


## Empedocles

This wouldn't work for me. In my experience I was never able to WILD at the beginning of the night. I absolutely have to do WBTB.

I can't see how it would be physically possible either, seeing how we don't enter REM at the beginning of the night. I don't understand how this is supposed to work. 

I mean, if we were to somehow consciously enter Non-REM sleep at the beginning of the night, then we'd have to just lay there in some weird pre-dream state for at least 2 or 3 hours in order for the first REM cycle to begin? I don't get it.

----------


## Kaenthem

nice,i think i can find a place for it in my program.

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## DiogoCDS

> This wouldn't work for me. In my experience I was never able to WILD at the beginning of the night. I absolutely have to do WBTB.
> 
> I can't see how it would be physically possible either, seeing how we don't enter REM at the beginning of the night. I don't understand how this is supposed to work. 
> 
> I mean, if we were to somehow consciously enter Non-REM sleep at the beginning of the night, then we'd have to just lay there in some weird pre-dream state for at least 2 or 3 hours in order for the first REM cycle to begin? I don't get it.



This guide is mostly to induce SP, making easier to WILD. 
You can just practice this if your new to LD so you can experience SP and then you can WILD together with WBTB.

That's what I understood from reading the whole guide and the comments

----------


## intheworldofnim

> Can someone perhaps give a quick example of what an illogical thought would be? I want to make sure I have the right idea before going in, so that I don't just see something I THINK qualifies but doesn't actually.
> 
> I'll, for example, start off with a thought, and if someone would give an example of how it would become "illogical" or "chaotic", it'd be great.
> Thought: I'm going out of school to pick up my brother. When I reach his school, I start heading home."
> It's a very basic thought, feel free to add any details and describe in what way it would become "chaotic".




I'll answer your question just in case no one else has. so basicaly an illogical thought is a thought that that wasn't created by you willfully at a conscious level.  you will be ale to tell at times because when one occures, you'll notice that you did not make that thought, it will be a WTF moment when you notice and usually when you realize it, they fade. There not really illogical parse, there just random thoughts that pop up without your conscious consent. the illogical part comes in because usually they have nothing to do with what you were thinking or it takes a completely different path from your original thought.


like in your example, you think of picking your brother up, you reach the school and then picture yourself walking back, you imagine crossing a road and then suddenly a random guy comes to your face and says "DO NOT QUESTION MY MUSCULANITY BITCH!" and then you wake up thinking WTF! "I didn't think that" and then the image will disappear. you will sometimes notice random voices which sound real and loud. much louder than your inner voice. think of the voices your hear in a movie about schitzophrenia, it's kinda like that. you might not even notice it right away.  I remember one time when I didn't even intend to sleep, I was only resting my eyes for a bit, a memeory from my trip to a water park came up and I was thinking about something funny that happened in the water. I was conscious of my body but all of a sudden the whole thing became 3D when this wave all of a sudden came over my head which nearly gave me a heart attack. I thought I was still conscious at the moment but that wave felt freakishly real. Another thing is when you get deep in the hypnogogic images or illogical thoughts, the sounds and scenery will feel much more real and vivid usually scaring you back to square one of the WILD phase. BEWARE of the 3D hypnogocic images when you get random thoughts that suddenly become 3d, thats means you are right on the verge of sleep paralysis but unfortunatly you can still feel your body thus scaring you back to the first phase.

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## meistersomnius

Maybe I got this wrong, but this technique suggests that you start free falling, before you lose control over your body?

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## Spyguy

> Maybe I got this wrong, but this technique suggests that you start free falling, before you lose control over your body?



I think it's more like freefalling, and then catching yourself before you lose control

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## howtoluciddream

Great guide you got there, tried and... it worked! Really nice method! Thanks.

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## Jeff777

Thank you.  Glad you found it useful.   :smiley:

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## CosmicEpiphany

Beautiful!!!!

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## DreamAnubis

Wow that is really interesting and easy technique, this night I will try and post result. ^^

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## CosmicEpiphany

very different outlook. I love it!!

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## madslash

I tried doing this technique during my nap around 5-6 hours after I woke up.  I tensed each muscle and then did the 61 point relaxation technique to relax myself.  Then I just let my mind wander, catching myself when I got too deep into my thought.  After what seemed like almost an hour of doing this, I hadn't gone into SP.  However, my body, especially my hands and feet, was very tingley, as if I was in a light form of SP, but not completely under SP.  I counted down from 100 multiple times, but it didn't help.

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## reyfran

i am sorry, i think someone might asked this question already, but i need to know what do you mean by 



> noticing illogical images and patterns



? is it like hypnagogia images & patterns? or stronger? or what?

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## TheModernNinja

Hmm..The only Wild that has worked for me so far is a pain anchor, because I can literally go to sleep and get lucid. Even so, I have only gotten 2 lucids with the method. How do you stop yourself from falling asleep? If I try Wilds, I'm either too awake, or I just fall asleep. I have never been able to be in-between. I have attempted Wilds over 150 times...

TMN

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## Wurlman

I did the free fall before I went to bed for practice and then did it on my WBTB I stayed up for a bit chugged a cup of coffee then layed down let my mind free fall well I just kept notes on what my mind was thinking about I rolled to one side after becoming uncomfortable then I had 3 WILD LUCIDS and 1 LUCID FA back to back :-) i love the free fall idea and happy I stumbled upon it! Thx jeff! If anyone is interested in reading my dream its in my workbook on dream views hear ----->http://www.dreamviews.com/intro-clas...ml#post2030711

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## sora12

Thank you Jeff for writing this tutorial. :smiley:  I've been having a dry spell since getting back into lucid dreaming, but after following your guide I've had 4 WILDS so far! Each time I attempt to WILD according to your guide I'm successful and this is really amazing for me since WILDS usually only happen for me very rarely. I think my problem was that previously I would try to keep my mind completely quiet, which resulted in nothing but wasted time. I am so excited that now I can WILD now since it's my favorite induction technique as it gives me the best clarity and I am able to think more logically while in the dream.

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## JPdreamlord

every time i try to WILD I either fall asleep (unconsciously) right after I start having hallucinations or i never fall asleep after 2 hours of trying... can someone help me figure this out?!?!

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## AnotherDreamer

Yo Jeff, I don't even know if you still visit this forum, but I love your guide man. I especially love the weighted jacket idea, god damn brilliant! This definitely added a couple cool ideas to improve my WILDing skills

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## Coded

Hi!
I don't understand what you mean for the Chaos theory step HELP! 

Other than that i understand... I want to LD but Ive only had one.

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## pearbear

Thanks so much Jeff777, cant wait to try this out tonight. I'm just starting out, but looking forward to giving this a shot!

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## Smudgefish

Thanks for bumping this thread up!! Never seen it before and it looks great.

I have always sort of ignored those illogical thoughts but of course it might just hold the key to a successful WILD, which after 1 year of trying, I have never managed. I wish I had seen this one before...

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## pearbear

> Thanks for bumping this thread up!! Never seen it before and it looks great.
> 
> I have always sort of ignored those illogical thoughts but of course it might just hold the key to a successful WILD, which after 1 year of trying, I have never managed. I wish I had seen this one before...



Yeah of course! I tried it last night twice, and got really close! Of course I'm still a beginner, only at this for a few weeks, but my body started waving or vibrating, my head started to feel like it was rolling, and I had this sensation that is difficult to describe, but it felt difficult to breathe normally all of a sudden. I think I need to learn more about SP, cause it feels like I am right there...

PS the illogical thoughts for me were lasting only a few seconds at a time, before another one would pop up. I used that as my trigger to roll onto my back and do the breathing, and then illogical thoughts stopped. So I rolled back onto my side and stopped focusing on my breath and the thoughts came back. I stayed on my side a bit longer and was aware of many more illogical thoughts and rolled back onto my back again and that seemed to help me get deeper toward sleep.

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