# Lucid Dreaming > Dream Control >  >  I have perfect control of my dreams and want to try and share it with you

## Nox12

Hello all,

I recently discovered that what I have is actually rather unique, because on looking around the Internet, I can't find anyone with as complete control as I have.

I rarely have lucid dreams, or at least not ones that I remember. Only perhaps once every two or three months. However, when I do get them, I have complete control, which I realise now is super rare. I have never had anything I want in a dream rejected. And I have never done anything particularly special to get lucid dreams or to get control, it just happened naturally.

And the reason why I'm telling you this is because I believe perhaps I can share it with you. That's because I think I know why this happens to me and so few others. You see, I genuinely believe that in dreams, *everything that happens only happens because you are expecting it to happen*. Clearly, my belief has been proven true because every time that I realise I'm dreaming, I gain complete and total control. 

Think about it, how can anything happen in a dream that you do not expect to happen, when the dream is being generated from within your brain? It's impossible. Everything that happens in dreams is generated by yourself. If you expect to be scared, you will be scared. If you expect to be in some lovely beach in Hawaii with beautiful females (or males) surrounding you, you will be. 

To give you an example of what happens, the very first episode I can remember from some years back went something like this:

I was being pursued and everything was very dark. I wasn't really seeing anything, but I was in an urban area with lots of narrow alleyways, and I was running really fast from an unseen pursuer. Then I suddenly realised that this is really unlikely and I must be dreaming, and that if I'm dreaming then whatever I expect to happen is what will happen, and I'm not in any real danger.

 So I stopped running, turned around and looked at the person who was pursuing me. He was some middle aged, pale, tall man with wide eyes who looked kind of helpless. At this point, I became angry at him for scaring me and I attacked him, and chopped him up into lots of small pieces so that he lay on the floor in pieces. Then I stepped back and looked at him, and my anger was replaced with hearty laughter as I pointed at him (his eyes were still working even though he was in pieces, and he was looking even more helpless). I kept laughing and pointing at him, happy that I had taken my revenge, until eventually I was satisfied (in real life I am not this mean). Then I transported myself somewhere else, and the dream went on. I know this sounds like a very basic dream, I have had plenty of more interesting ones since which perhaps I should have used as examples.

The point is that if you adopt the same belief as me, that whatever happens in your dream only happens because you expect it to happen, then perhaps you can achieve this complete control too. During my dreams, all I think to myself is "whatever I expect to happen is what will happen" and "things only ever happen because i am expecting them to happen next." and then I just decide what I want, make myself expect it to happen, and it happens. Invariably, and without exception, this has ALWAYS worked for me for years. 

I would be really interested to hear how this technique works for all of you.

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## USA

You should try to do something thats so impossible in real life that it would be hard to even do in a dream, like lift up Mount Everest with one hand! Anyway, I agree with your technique, that's how I think too, but sometimes it's hard to believe you can do things, or it's just hard to imagine it. And killing people is mean.

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## Nox12

Hmmm yeh like I said I'm not like that in real life, I was just suddenly really angry at that person in the dream because he had made me petrified just moments ago! Lol. 

Anyway I think i have done things like levitate up and then change landscapes with my mind (but no vivid memories) but never tried lifting a mountain. I can't imagine it being a problem though, since whatever I expect to happen in dreams is what happens. Just recently I had a vivid dream involving me lifting myself a few metres off the ground and levitating there before transporting.

Honestly though it's not hard as long as you realise that everything in dreams only happens when you anticipate it. As proof, can you think of even a single occasion when something happened in a dream that you didn't anticipate at least just before it happened? Even if something happens by "surprise", im sure you anticipated it the moment before it happened (and as a result of your anticipation, made it happen).

PS: I know you think it's mean but the way I chopped up the scary person was pretty impressive. I made clean cuts with my hands using karate chops, and I moved so ridiculously fast that i chopped him into lots of pieces in under a second. There was no blood in my dream, just cleanly cut fragments.

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## madvorak

Hi! Your dream control is awesome! I believe you enjoy your LDs very much. What about to learn to have them frequently?

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## Nox12

Hi madvorak, thanks for the advice!

Also one more thing USA. The only reaso why you would find lifting mount Everest hard in a dream is because you are thinking "this is going to be hard, even in a dream". In other words, you are expecting it to be hard, and anticipating that you will find it difficult to do. 

If you realise that in dreams, whatever you anticipate or expect to happen is what will actually happen, then like me, lifting mount Everest will become just as easy as simply levitating a few inches off the ground or transporting somewhere.

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## littlezoe

This is the basis of dream control what you just described. But it's definitely an useful post, other than that you try to show it as something new  :smiley:

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## Nox12

Really? Of that is so I'd be really grateful if could provide links, because I couldn't find anything like what I just said when google searching, and it would be nice to hear someone else's perspective.

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## littlezoe

> Really? Of that is so I'd be really grateful if could provide links, because I couldn't find anything like what I just said when google searching, and it would be nice to hear someone else's perspective.



I have no idea about links, but this is basically common sense that most people should understand. Me and some others posted about this multiple times on this forum, about how believing is the key in dream control.  :smiley: 

Edit: I didn't read your post fully, so maybe you mentioned it somewhat differently than i did, but what is say is what i experience.

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## The Cusp

> *everything that happens only happens because you are expecting it to happen*.



Bullshit.  I could give hundreds of examples from my dream journal alone where the dream went against my expectations.  You're just plain wrong.  Sorry for being so blunt, but using expectations (or belief) for dream control is a misconception I've made it my life's work to stamp out.

It's not expectations that determines what happens next, it's archetypal structures and how you focus on them.   

You may have had good control thus far, but I would wager you've never left your comfort zone so to speak.  You've only done stuff that is familiar to you, so you already had the archetypal structures to handle it.  Try doing some of the dream tasks from other people on this site.  You may find yourself failing for the first time simply because some of those tasks are coming from a different mindset or way of thinking that is unfamiliar to you.

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## USA

Oh sorry nox about the killing thing, when i said it was mean, i was kidding around lol i wasnt mad or anything. And im gonna use ur tips for my lucids, like jumpin off the empire state building and landing on my face.

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## littlezoe

> Bullshit.  I could give hundreds of examples from my dream journal alone where the dream went against my expectations.  You're just plain wrong.  Sorry for being so blunt, but using expectations (or belief) for dream control is a misconception I've made it my life's work to stamp out.



You are right in that the dream world isn't only shaped based on expectations as the guy stated. He is wrong in that.

But you should change your life's work, because believing that you can do something definitely helps you achieve it  :wink2:  If you start with "oh well, i can't do that for sure.." then you won't for sure.

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## Nox12

> Bullshit.  I could give hundreds of examples from my dream journal alone where the dream went against my expectations.  You're just plain wrong.  Sorry for being so blunt, but using expectations (or belief) for dream control is a misconception I've made it my life's work to stamp out.
> 
> It's not expectations that determines what happens next, it's archetypal structures and how you focus on them.   
> 
> You may have had good control thus far, but I would wager you've never left your comfort zone so to speak.  You've only done stuff that is familiar to you, so you already had the archetypal structures to handle it.  Try doing some of the dream tasks from other people on this site.  You may find yourself failing for the first time simply because some of those tasks are coming from a different mindset or way of thinking that is unfamiliar to you.



Hi cusp, 

Pardon the brief answer, I'm using my phone. 

I guarantee you that i have been doing this for years with complete cntrol of my dreams without exception. I'm interested to hear your technique. 

Belief is very different to expectation, which may be the confusion here. I have read the whole 'just believe in yourself' advice and i don't think it's accurate, it's about expectations. 

For example, whilst talking to someone in a dream, you may suddenly think someone is about to hit me from behind. As a result of you thinking that, someone will suddenly hit you from behind. 

I don't know what you mean by outside my comfort zone, my lucid dreams normally start when I'm scared in a dream and realize that my situation is unrealistic. Surely that is outside my comfort zone? I do things in my dreams that i could never do in real life. 

In any case, following your advice would be hard because i have in the past tried to say to myself 'the next time i lucid dream i will do this', but it doesn't work because i don't remember my resolution during the actual dream.

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## Nox12

There is one dream where i almost couldn't control it, not because my technique didn't work, but because i was petrified. 

I was in a room, circular, with lots of dark corridors and i felt like something really bad was about to happen. I kept working myself up, getting more and more scared, and my heart rate was quickly rising. Then i suddenly realized this made no sense, but i was too petrified to take full control. 

I closed my eyes and kept saying to myself, nothing will happen as long as i don't expect anything will happen. I kept saying that until eventually i felt like i was rising above the dream. And because i thought that, i started physically rising up. 

Then i suddenly thought 'oh no I'm going to fall!' But then i stopped myself by thinking 'relax, i will only fall if i expect to fall'. I opened my eyes and looked down, and sure enough i was floating a few metres above the ground. I kept telling myself i will not fall if i don't expect to, but my heart was racing and i was too scared to do anything. 

I stayed in this condition until i calmed down, then i transported elsewhere. 

Still on phone, will reply more later.

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## Klikko

Totally! Trying to do something you doubt that you can do is as good as impossible!

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## Nox12

> You are right in that the dream world isn't only shaped based on expectations as the guy stated. He is wrong in that.
> 
> But you should change your life's work, because believing that you can do something definitely helps you achieve it  If you start with "oh well, i can't do that for sure.." then you won't for sure.



I agree that the dream world is not only based on expectations, but I still maintain that whatever you expect to happen will happen. Let me explain:

You are only consciously affecting a small portion of the dream. E.g. You might fly, or you might edit a landscape, or you might teleport somewhere. You can do all of these things, but where did the sky you see come from? And where did the appearance of the landscape come from? How did the details of the place where you teleported appear? I'm sure you weren't consciously drawing and mapping out every detail that appears in your dreams. Most of it was subconscious, or perhaps it was even influenced by external real-world inputs e.g. Noises, touch sensation, perhaps even things like wifi signals!

In other words, i agree that dreams are actually *mostly* not consciously controlled by us. However, I still believe that whatever you expect or anticipate in a dream is what will actually happen.

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## SuperSonicFan

Each night before I go to bed I always make a recording of what I plan to do that night in my dreams. I also tell myself over and over that I am going to have a lucid dream and it does seem to help. Say one night I am really tired and don't get myself excited about having a lucid dream,  probably won't have one. Then, the nights I really focus on having a lucid dream are the ones they happen. My problem seems to be not really being quite aware enough about how to accomplish something, or the results are mediocre.

For example, my first lucid dream I can remember wanting to try and run super fast. Well, I COULD run faster than in real life but it was only a little bit. Also, in my dreams I usually remember my dream goals, I just never seem to quite be in full control of what is happening and can't conciously think of a way to accomplish a set goal. Also, I seem to have a problem with DC's always inhibiting me from my goals by coming and talking to me, but then instead of just running off by myself, I go and talk to them although I know I am dreaming and could just go off on my own. 

Guess I'm just trying to say, I am a believer in that you have to believe something will happen because you expect it too, I just seem to have an issue with being aware enough to tell myself that in the first place.  ::?:  I am definitely excited for my next lucid though to try and accomplish my dream goals!!!

See ya

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## Nox12

> Each night before I go to bed I always make a recording of what I plan to do that night in my dreams. I also tell myself over and over that I am going to have a lucid dream and it does seem to help. Say one night I am really tired and don't get myself excited about having a lucid dream,  probably won't have one. Then, the nights I really focus on having a lucid dream are the ones they happen. My problem seems to be not really being quite aware enough about how to accomplish something, or the results are mediocre.
> 
> For example, my first lucid dream I can remember wanting to try and run super fast. Well, I COULD run faster than in real life but it was only a little bit. Also, in my dreams I usually remember my dream goals, I just never seem to quite be in full control of what is happening and can't conciously think of a way to accomplish a set goal. Also, I seem to have a problem with DC's always inhibiting me from my goals by coming and talking to me, but then instead of just running off by myself, I go and talk to them although I know I am dreaming and could just go off on my own. 
> 
> Guess I'm just trying to say, I am a believer in that you have to believe something will happen because you expect it too, I just seem to have an issue with being aware enough to tell myself that in the first place.  I am definitely excited for my next lucid though to try and accomplish my dream goals!!!
> 
> See ya



Hmm I see that's interesting. So you know how to control dreams, but you can't implement it because you aren't fully in control of your thoughts during the dream.

I never thought about how annoying that could be. It sounds a little like how I can't remember to do things I want to try out in lucid dreams (I've not put a great deal of effort into it though). One question, what's a DC?

Perhaps the key to overcoming your difficulty is to make the idea that your expectations come true in dreams a fundamental belief of yours that you don't need to consciously rationalise. That way when youre dreaming, even though youre not aware enough to alter your thoughts, you will naturally take control of your expectations in the dream. This is all just speculation by me of course, but why not give it a try.

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## SuperSonicFan

> Hmm I see that's interesting. So you know how to control dreams, but you can't implement it because you aren't fully in control of your thoughts during the dream.
> 
> I never thought about how annoying that could be. It sounds a little like how I can't remember to do things I want to try out in lucid dreams (I've not put a great deal of effort into it though). One question, what's a DC?
> 
> Perhaps the key to overcoming your difficulty is to make the idea that your expectations come true in dreams a fundamental belief of yours that you don't need to consciously rationalise. That way when youre dreaming, even though youre not aware enough to alter your thoughts, you will naturally take control of your expectations in the dream. This is all just speculation by me of course, but why not give it a try.



Yes i can agree with you 100%, it is REALLY annoying because whenever I become lucid I think "Oh cool, now I'm going to work on my dream goals" Then I start just kind of going along with the dream like it is still real life or something and I don't quite come far enough to conciously think about how to accomplish something. So basically, I always go through what I want to accomplish, just never am in control enough to actually 'get 'er done'.

I am always open to suggestions however so I will give yours a shot and let you know how it goes.  :smiley:

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## USA

> One question, what's a DC?



A DC is a dream character.

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## The Cusp

> Hi cusp, 
> 
> Pardon the brief answer, I'm using my phone. 
> 
> I guarantee you that i have been doing this for years with complete cntrol of my dreams without exception. I'm interested to hear your technique. 
> 
> Belief is very different to expectation, which may be the confusion here. I have read the whole 'just believe in yourself' advice and i don't think it's accurate, it's about expectations.



I'd say what they have in common is that neither of them exist.  Or rather they are just poorly generalized labels given to complex archetypal structures.





> For example, whilst talking to someone in a dream, you may suddenly think someone is about to hit me from behind. As a result of you thinking that, someone will suddenly hit you from behind.



OK, I see we're arguing semantics here.  You're just more generalized in your description.  I'd say you focus on the archetype of being punch, which would then manifest an associated person that you link to the act of punching, maybe an older brother or someone you've gotten into a fight with before.

But a blatant exception to the expectation theory is negation.  Open a door in a dream thinking to yourself "There is NOT going to be zombies behind this door", and in all likely hood there is going to be zombies. even though you fully expect there not to be.  This scenario doesn't fit the expectation model, but does fit the archetype model because the zombie archetype is much more substantial and overrides the simple "Not".

Fact is dream control fails a lot for the average person.  In order for it to fail, they have to attempt control, which they would never have done if they didn't expect it to work.

Expectations alone are not enough for most people.  You're just a freak  :smiley:   If you want to help people with control, you're going to have to go a little deeper in describing exactly what it is you are doing.  I'd really like to know.  I'd say I've mastered dream control, but it can still take me a couple of tries to get something to work.  I chalk up my failures on how I focus my attention, so maybe you could provide a few more details on how you are using yours.





> I don't know what you mean by outside my comfort zone, my lucid dreams normally start when I'm scared in a dream and realize that my situation is unrealistic. Surely that is outside my comfort zone? I do things in my dreams that i could never do in real life.



What I mean is you may be really good at flying a certain way.  But what if you tried flying in a method different than you are used to, something where the very concept seems odd to you.  Like flying by riding the wind or flapping your arms.  Something like flying by being pulled by strings or wires that stretch off into the sky and swing you around may be difficult for you or I, but would likely be very easy for someone who was say a Hollywood stuntman who got flung around by wires in waking life on a daily basis.





> In any case, following your advice would be hard because i have in the past tried to say to myself 'the next time i lucid dream i will do this', but it doesn't work because i don't remember my resolution during the actual dream.



I hate that!


As someone with perfect control, I'd appreciate if you'd take the time to skim through this thread and tell me if anything in there sounds familiar to you.  
http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/nature...control-57283/

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## Nox12

> But a blatant exception to the expectation theory is negation.  Open a door in a dream thinking to yourself "There is NOT going to be zombies behind this door", and in all likely hood there is going to be zombies. even though you fully expect there not to be.  This scenario doesn't fit the expectation model, but does fit the archetype model because the zombie archetype is much more substantial and overrides the simple "Not".
> 
> Fact is dream control fails a lot for the average person.  In order for it to fail, they have to attempt control, which they would never have done if they didn't expect it to work.
> 
> Expectations alone are not enough for most people.  You're just a freak   If you want to help people with control, you're going to have to go a little deeper in describing exactly what it is you are doing.  I'd really like to know.  I'd say I've mastered dream control, but it can still take me a couple of tries to get something to work.  I chalk up my failures on how I focus my attention, so maybe you could provide a few more details on how you are using yours.



I know I PM'd you saying I was sleeping, but then I decided to reply first.

You say that negation doesn't work, but my experience is different, for example in the dream I described earlier in this thread. Let me quote the relevant bit:





> There is one dream where i almost couldn't control it, not because my technique didn't work, but because i was petrified. 
> 
> I was in a room, circular, with lots of dark corridors and i felt like something really bad was about to happen. I kept working myself up, getting more and more scared, and my heart rate was quickly rising. Then i suddenly realized this made no sense, but i was too petrified to take full control. 
> 
> I closed my eyes and kept saying to myself, nothing will happen as long as i don't expect anything will happen. I kept saying that until eventually i felt like i was rising above the dream. And because i thought that, i started physically rising up. 
> 
> Then i suddenly thought 'oh no I'm going to fall!' But then i stopped myself by thinking 'relax, i will only fall if i expect to fall'. I opened my eyes and looked down, and sure enough i was floating a few metres above the ground. I kept telling myself i will not fall if i don't expect to, but my heart was racing and i was too scared to do anything. 
> 
> I stayed in this condition until i calmed down, then i transported elsewhere.



In any case, if I didn't want zombies to be behind the door and I wasn't too scared, I would just not even think of zombies. (I never see zombies anyway). I'd think there was a beautiful landscape on the other side of the door. 

From these forums, I can see and agree with you that a lot of people fail in dream control. I was very lucky in a way, in that I developed dream control and kept doing it for years before even finding this information. The whole concept that dream control might be difficult didn't even exist in my mind, that expectation was non-existent. As far as I was concerned, if I can control my dream, that means I can do anything. Since that was my expectation, that's how it worked. If I had visited these forums before I gained dream control, things might have been very different, because I would have expected achieving dream control to be a struggle.

All I do in my dreams is: 1. I feel an urge to do something 2. I concentrate hard on making myself expect that thing to happen next 3. It just happens. So far this has always worked, and I don't expect that to stop any time soon.





> As someone with perfect control, I'd appreciate if you'd take the time to skim through this thread and tell me if anything in there sounds familiar to you.



I read the first 4 posts in your thread and got the general gist of what you're saying, and I actually agree with you. And I don't think what I am saying contradicts you. Here is a quote from earlier in the thread of how I reconcile it:





> I agree that the dream world is not only based on expectations, but I still maintain that whatever you expect to happen will happen. Let me explain:
> 
> You are only consciously affecting a small portion of the dream. E.g. You might fly, or you might edit a landscape, or you might teleport somewhere. You can do all of these things, but where did the sky you see come from? And where did the appearance of the landscape come from? How did the details of the place where you teleported appear? I'm sure you weren't consciously drawing and mapping out every detail that appears in your dreams. Most of it was subconscious, or perhaps it was even influenced by external real-world inputs e.g. Noises, touch sensation, perhaps even things like wifi signals!
> 
> In other words, i agree that dreams are actually mostly not consciously controlled by us. However, I still believe that whatever you expect or anticipate in a dream is what will actually happen.



So the things you focus your attention on, your brain fills in the details. Emotions and schemas will, of course, influence how your brain colours the dream world. E.g. Because you expect the sky to be blue, when you fly in a dream, your brain draws the sky blue.

I look forward to hearing whether you agree or disagree with this.

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## The Cusp

> I closed my eyes and kept saying to myself, nothing will happen as long  as i don't expect anything will happen. I kept saying that until  eventually i felt like i was rising above the dream. And because i  thought that, i started physically rising up.



I'm sure with a little searching I could turn up a similar dream scenario from a religious person who instead told themselves "Nothing will happen as long as I believe in Jesus", and have it work just as effectively as your expectation mantra.  Doesn't do much to support the expectation approach.

And that whole levitating thing, you didn't do that on purpose, the dream just responded to your wandering attention. Which technically, you did do...

But I get you now.  I finally _get_ all you people who occasionally come in claiming complete control.  I was wrong, you're not a freak.  

Everyone is always in complete control of their dreams.  I've always maintained this.  The trick is to realize it, and observe how it works.  The dream responds to your focused attention, and if you want to call the focus of that attention an expectation, then that is essentially correct.  





> Then i suddenly thought 'oh no I'm going to fall!' But then i stopped  myself by thinking 'relax, i will only fall if i expect to fall'. I  opened my eyes and looked down, and sure enough i was floating a few  metres above the ground. I kept telling myself i will not fall if i  don't expect to, but my heart was racing and i was too scared to do  anything.



You don't have perfect control!  You're just aware of how the dream responds to your focused attention.  And I don't necessarily mean just control of the dream, but control of your attention as well, which is sorta the same thing.






> I know I PM'd you saying I was sleeping, but then I decided to 
> 
> 
> In any case, if I didn't want zombies to be behind the door and I wasn't too scared, I would just not even think of zombies. (I never see zombies anyway). I'd think there was a beautiful landscape on the other side of the door.



Yeah, that's basically it.  Best way to defeat a dream character is always to ignore it into oblivion.  But the point I was trying to make is the expectation of there being no zombies is the same in both cases, only the methodology differs.  But the negation method has a high chance of backfiring, so it has to be more than just expectations at play.





> The whole concept that dream control might be difficult didn't even exist in my mind, that expectation was non-existent. As far as I was concerned, if I can control my dream, that means I can do anything. Since that was my expectation, that's how it worked. If I had visited these forums before I gained dream control, things might have been very different, because I would have expected achieving dream control to be a struggle.



You're describing paradigms or the archetypal structures I keep mentioning.  Your unrestricted model and the model with heavy baggage you theoretically could have picked up here are both examples of these.  The kind of dream control I'm talking about involves realizing this and choosing a model that best fits the situation.  Kind of like playing a pokemon or magic the gathering card.  Or a tarot card might be more precise, since they are more literal representations of these sorts of archetypal structures.





> All I do in my dreams is: 1. I feel an urge to do something 2. I concentrate hard on making myself expect that thing to happen next 3. It just happens. So far this has always worked, and I don't expect that to stop any time soon.



Maybe some context here.  Exactly how many lucid dreams have you had?






> I read the first 4 posts in your thread and got the general gist of what you're saying, and I actually agree with you. And I don't think what I am saying contradicts you. 
> 
> So the things you focus your attention on, your brain fills in the details. Emotions and schemas will, of course, influence how your brain colours the dream world. E.g. Because you expect the sky to be blue, when you fly in a dream, your brain draws the sky blue.
> 
> I look forward to hearing whether you agree or disagree with this.



I think you have an intuitive understanding of the basic processes of dream control.  But I still say you should consider schemata and archetypes in neural networking model over expectations for dream control work.  It allows for more complex manipulations of the dream, and provides a better framework to explain the things that appear in your dreams that you didn't consciously put there.

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## Nox12

> I'm sure with a little searching I could turn up a similar dream scenario from a religious person who instead told themselves "Nothing will happen as long as I believe in Jesus", and have it work just as effectively as your expectation mantra.  Doesn't do much to support the expectation approach.
> 
> And that whole levitating thing, you didn't do that on purpose, the dream just responded to your wandering attention. Which technically, you did do...
> 
> But I get you now.  I finally _get_ all you people who occasionally come in claiming complete control.  I was wrong, you're not a freak. 
> 
> Everyone is always in complete control of their dreams.  I've always maintained this.  The trick is to realize it, and observe how it works.  The dream responds to your focused attention, and if you want to call the focus of that attention an expectation, then that is essentially correct.  
> 
> You don't have perfect control!  You're just aware of how the dream responds to your focused attention.  And I don't necessarily mean just control of the dream, but control of your attention as well, which is sorta the same thing.



Sorry to disappoint you  :tongue2: , but I specifically gave that dream as the only example I remember when I wasn't in complete control, in fact I had almost no control. This was because I was too scared to think straight. I was petrified, I can still remember I could literally feel my heart beating hard inside my chest, that's how scared I was. I simply wasn't able to think about expectations and all the rest of it. 

You are absolutely right, I was lifted up by my dream, I didn't ask for that. And then I almost fell because of my dream, in fact I felt the initial falling sensation, but then I stopped it.

I completely agree with you that a Christian might achieve a similar outcome if he expects his belief to prevent anything bad from happening.





> Yeah, that's basically it.  Best way to defeat a dream character is always to ignore it into oblivion.  But the point I was trying to make is the expectation of there being no zombies is the same in both cases, only the methodology differs.  But the negation method has a high chance of backfiring, so it has to be more than just expectations at play.



Well we agree about ignoring zombies, but my approach to this issue seems to be different. If you think "there are no zombies behind this door", then that leaves open the question "what is behind the door?" You are leaving your brain to fill in the gap. The correct approach is always to think about what you want to see, leaving no gap for your brain to fill. If you think about what ISN'T behind the door, you are leaving your brain to decide what is behind the door, and the most obvious thing is the topic you were just thinking about i.e. zombies.





> You're describing paradigms or the archetypal structures I keep mentioning.  Your unrestricted model and the model with heavy baggage you theoretically could have picked up here are both examples of these.  The kind of dream control I'm talking about involves realizing this and choosing a model that best fits the situation.  Kind of like playing a pokemon or magic the gathering card.  Or a tarot card might be more precise, since they are more literal representations of these sorts of archetypal structures.



I have to admit I'm not sure I understand about the paradigms and archetypal structures, but I think you are saying that it wasn't my expectations, but my general mindset that might have been influenced if I'd seen this site beforehand? Well I agree in that my general mindset influenced what I expected from my dreams, and hence what happened. 






> Maybe some context here.  Exactly how many lucid dreams have you had?



I don't remember most dreams very well. I have about maybe 4 vivid lucid dreams in total, but much more than that which I remember waking up and thinking "wow that was an awesome dream!" but no longer remember what it was. Perhaps at least 15-20? I'm sure it's not as many as you - I just wanted to share my experience since I realise now it's quite rare.






> I think you have an intuitive understanding of the basic processes of dream control.  But I still say you should consider schemata and archetypes in neural networking model over expectations for dream control work.  It allows for more complex manipulations of the dream, and provides a better framework to explain the things that appear in your dreams that you didn't consciously put there.



Well as I said earlier, I think we agree that the majority of your dream is not consciously controlled. We only control those parts that we put our attention towards. However, with those parts that we choose to take control of, whatever we expect to occur is what occurs. The subconscious fills in the details, taking into account emotions and underlying schemata as you said, but also more mundane things like external noises, touches, vibrations, etc.

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## The Cusp

I pretty much agree with everything your said in that last post.





> I don't remember most dreams very well. I have about maybe 4 vivid lucid dreams in total, but much more than that which I remember waking up and thinking "wow that was an awesome dream!" but no longer remember what it was. Perhaps at least 15-20? I'm sure it's not as many as you - I just wanted to share my experience since I realise now it's quite rare.



Four!?!?!?  Four remembered lucid dreams and you're claiming perfect control?  That's like me only ever shooting one basket ball into the net, just one time, then claiming I never miss.  I hope for your sake your streak keeps up, but I seriously doubt you'll be able to keep up that perfect record.  

Here's some examples of some of my failures

-I try to walk on water, looking where I'm going, and sink into the water.  I get out, know that everything requires your attention to exist in dreams, so I look up until I can't see the water at my feet.  Then I walk and it works.  I look down and see a very thin crust of colored ice beneath my feet.  

-I want to part some trees like you would tall grass with your hands, but I want to do it telekinetically using my hands.  I visualize it happening, fully expect it to, reach out, try..  and instead I get spotlights shooting out of the palms of my hands, like Iron Man's force blasts only spotlights.  I figure waving my hands about activated whatever archetype represents "hand powers", and out of everything I consider a hand power, that was the strongest link or connection since I had just watched an animated Iron Man movie.

-I'm flying using swimming physics, a common default flying mode because the only archetypal structure representing movement we have actual experience with while stretched out horizontally is swimming.  I fly out over a river and suddenly lose my ability to fly and crash into the water.  I figure my swimming physics and the water are so closely related they just kind of snapped together like magnets.

Unexpected stuff happens no matter how good you are.

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## WDr

> Really? Of that is so I'd be really grateful if could provide links, because I couldn't find anything like what I just said when google searching, and it would be nice to hear someone else's perspective.



http://www.dreamviews.com/f14/strugg...-doubt-133843/

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## Nox12

Hi Wdr, I see that your post says almost the same thing as what I said.  :smiley:  so I'm not alone! 





> I pretty much agree with everything your said in that last post.
> 
> Four!?!?!?  Four remembered lucid dreams and you're claiming perfect control?  That's like me only ever shooting one basket ball into the net, just one time, then claiming I never miss.  I hope for your sake your streak keeps up, but I seriously doubt you'll be able to keep up that perfect record. 
> 
> Unexpected stuff happens no matter how good you are.



Well, let's see what happens. I feel that this thread has increased my chances of not being able to control a dream, but I still think its highly unlikely.  :smiley: 

It's not like shooting one basket ball - I've had at least about 20 of them, so it's like shooting about 20 balls straight into the net and claiming I never miss. :-) I would remember if I woke up and thought "hey I couldn't do this thing in my lucid dream even though I wanted to"

Anyway I'm glad we reached a convergence, I guess we were saying almost the same thing all along but just didnt realise it.

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## astralboy

It's the same with me. 
When I have a lucid dream everything is easy for me because I know that my dream is ME. My thoughts. Nothing else. 
I control people in my dreams, I'm playing god sometimes, or an angel, I move objects and so.... It's magic =) 

And the weird thing is that i think the same for the Real Life... Its only my thoughts. (like they said in the move the secret.)

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## jwhitacre88

I have the same as you, but I have complete control over my dreams every night. I have has this for the past 5 years. I developed it so I could end a streak of nightmares by killing what was chasing me. After that point, I no longer have that dream. From that point on, I have never had a normal dream. I only have dreams where I can do impossible things, such as imagining guns in my hands, and they appear. This has almost become a burden to me, as I never get a good sleep. My dreams tried to trap me last night, by making super realistic environments of my room while I forced myself to wake up still in the dream. I wanted to share my experiences with you, and say that having more control of your dreams than lucid dreaming is not always fun.

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## Tntx210

I can control the atmosphere, landscape, scenario, and people that are involved. Plus the reason they(we) are there. Conversations and responses. I have once completely made the landscape blank and all characters stand still just to kick out someone I did not want in the dream.. I haven't heard of anyone being able to do all this exactly... It does take practice an I am pretty proud of myself to be able to do this on a regular basis...am I the only one in THIS MUCH control??

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## DirtyRockNrolla

> I pretty much agree with everything your said in that last post.
> 
> 
> 
> Four!?!?!?  Four remembered lucid dreams and you're claiming perfect control?  That's like me only ever shooting one basket ball into the net, just one time, then claiming I never miss.  I hope for your sake your streak keeps up, but I seriously doubt you'll be able to keep up that perfect record.  
> 
> Here's some examples of some of my failures
> 
> -I try to walk on water, looking where I'm going, and sink into the water.  I get out, know that everything requires your attention to exist in dreams, so I look up until I can't see the water at my feet.  Then I walk and it works.  I look down and see a very thin crust of colored ice beneath my feet.  
> ...



 The only dreams I remember n have Im in control, had strange one once were seemed like on some kind of beach at night but the sky was like nothing iv seen n I was running at high speeds, not super hero film fast but faster than human speed and was my chest was deep breathing but wasnt out of breath and jump over dunes n rocks with percision.

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## bilyavka

Hi Nox12,

I have same experience as you and I'm completely agree that we can control our dreams and everything that happens only happened because we expected this. I have even more interesting experience in my dreams. Have you tried to control moving any objects in the dream. I have tried several times but could not manage this. Hence I can control fully my body e.g. fly, run fast, jump very high whatever but I can not control objects around me, I can predict what happens next with objects and surrounding because of expectations. I was very expected to move objects in the dream because I believe that it possible only in dreams. But, unfortunently I could not manage yet to do this. I don't know why.... Have you had such experience in your dreams?  Have you ever control any objects in the dream, e.g. moving them without touching just by your thoughts?

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## bilyavka

and one more thing, do you know can we travel in the dreams to other people dreams. Once I had dream that I was not in main role and I knew that it's not mine dream but my syster's dream. I was very disappoint in the dream that I'm in somebodie's dream not in mine. On the next day I asked my syster and she said that i was in her dream but the content of dream of cause was different. I don't know how but I believe that we can come to dreams of other people. If somebody already has such experience it would interesting to know....

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## Kaiern9

You have just described very simple control, which is not rare at all.

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## Mzzkc

> am I the only one in THIS MUCH control??



Lol. No.

Also, cool necro, bro.

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## DreamWriter

I'm a natural LDer and I do this to. My main problem is I'm a expert at mind control but I can't change the environment.

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## EricinLA

> I recently discovered that what I have is actually rather unique, because on looking around the Internet, I can't find anyone with as complete control as I have.
> 
> I rarely have lucid dreams, or at least not ones that I remember. Only perhaps once every two or three months. However, when I do get them, I have complete control, which I realise now is super rare. I have never had anything I want in a dream rejected. And I have never done anything particularly special to get lucid dreams or to get control, it just happened naturally.
> 
> And the reason why I'm telling you this is because I believe perhaps I can share it with you. That's because I think I know why this happens to me and so few others. You see, I genuinely believe that in dreams, *everything that happens only happens because you are expecting it to happen*.



*Read my profile. I have had total control of my dreams every night for decades.  I to have tried to connect with people during a dream with no success.  I would try to pass some piece of information to them to prove it.  It never worked.   I was trying to find out if dreams our only in the mind of the individual or something more.  So far I suspect it is only in the mind of the individual.  I've heard from others that have claimed to have done it, plus a bunch of other outrages things.  I doubt them to be really true based on my years of experience.  I have yet to truly find another individual at my level of control.  It is just second nature to me now.  That is why I usually just "Free Dream".  Because after decades of Total Dream Control I was getting bored and wanted to learn where the dream would take me on it's own with little to no interference from me.*

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## OneUp

> *Read my profile. I have had total control of my dreams every night for decades.  I to have tried to connect with people during a dream with no success.  I would try to pass some piece of information to them to prove it.  It never worked.   I was trying to find out if dreams our only in the mind of the individual or something more.  So far I suspect it is only in the mind of the individual.  I've heard from others that have claimed to have done it, plus a bunch of other outrages things.  I doubt them to be really true based on my years of experience.  I have yet to truly find another individual at my level of control.  It is just second nature to me now.  That is why I usually just "Free Dream".  Because after decades of Total Dream Control I was getting bored and wanted to learn where the dream would take me on it's own with little to no interference from me.*



So you were just born with the ability to Lucid Dream every night? You're a natural? The reason Ive asked is because Im trying to study the mindset of natural Lucid Dreamers. There must be some secret in how you guys Lucid Dream every night without even trying, and without any day work, its amazing. Kinda off topic, I know my bad

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## EricinLA

> So you were just born with the ability to Lucid Dream every night? You're a natural? The reason Ive asked is because Im trying to study the mindset of natural Lucid Dreamers. There must be some secret in how you guys Lucid Dream every night without even trying, and without any day work, its amazing. Kinda off topic, I know my bad



I started to Lucid Dream over 35 years ago and slowly gained Control and used tricks I figured out like everyone else to try to keep control in the beginning.  But eventually I didn't need the tricks anymore.  Control just became second nature.   I've talked to a few others here that have pretty decent control.  It seems like we have one thing in common.  The ability to Calm our Minds and go to sleep very quickly.  Plus at least for myself I also have the ability to focus and see things clearly when other can't.   I did learn on my own and figured out how to do Total Control at will when I want.  But it did take years of practice until it became easy.  Practice makes perfect as they always say.  Maybe that will help you.

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## OneUp

> I started to Lucid Dream over 35 years ago and slowly gained Control and used tricks I figured out like everyone else to try to keep control in the beginning.  But eventually I didn't need the tricks anymore.  Control just became second nature.   I've talked to a few others here that have pretty decent control.  It seems like we have one thing in common.  The ability to Calm our Minds and go to sleep very quickly.  Plus at least for myself I also have the ability to focus and see things clearly when other can't.   I did learn on my own and figured out how to do Total Control at will when I want.  But it did take years of practice until it became easy.  Practice makes perfect as they always say.  Maybe that will help you.



Thanks EricinLA, thats very helpful advice. Im good with visualizing and calming my mind, but not the "getting to sleep quickly" part. I will practice more. And yes, with practice maybe one day I might be as good as you are. But I have one last question, since you have really good control of your dreams, what is the longest amount of time you have stayed in a single lucid dream? Can you control time to where it feels like youre in the dream for days or even longer? Just curious and thanks again.

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## EricinLA

> Thanks EricinLA, thats very helpful advice. Im good with visualizing and calming my mind, but not the "getting to sleep quickly" part. I will practice more. And yes, with practice maybe one day I might be as good as you are. But I have one last question, since you have really good control of your dreams, what is the longest amount of time you have stayed in a single lucid dream? Can you control time to where it feels like youre in the dream for days or even longer? Just curious and thanks again.



That is a hard one to answer.  Because as most of us that are here have realized that "Dream Time" and "Real Time" is not the same.   I now have a clock that project the time on the ceiling above me so I can try to keep track.  I swear in the hour or 2 before I actually have to get up for work I have had some really long "Dream Time" Dreams.  I looked at the clock after coming back from the bathroom one time above me and then had a dream that seemed to have lasted over a day.  But my alarm went off and I noted the clock.  Only 35 min had past.  I still find that really amazing.  I just assume our minds can work really fast when not hindered by our physical bodies.  Also I have had dreams that seemed to go on for days, but of course it was within a few hours of sleep time.  Our Brain is amazing.

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