# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity >  >  Finally, A 10 second lucid induction! Title -*MFG*

## Malac Reborn

*HEY*, I'm sure some of you guys and gals that clicked here are like "ZOMG TeH FAST U|[email protected]#$%$% teh NeeK". Well today, your dreams come true. (Heh get it?)

Let me start off that I actually discovered the root of this technique like a year ago. Slowly finding out what to do to "initiate" these visuals smoothly and fast to implement a way to get lucid, easily. I'm not going to lie, you won't be able to do this technique if you have a problem with visualizing. But that can be fixed with practice so that you can do this  :smiley: 

The method itself is named, *Malac's Fast Grab* (or if you hate my name than you can call it "My Fast Grab"). 

Ever heard the saying that to transition into a dream, you should "step into it" or interact in the midst of HI? This technique emphasizes that transition part into a practical means of getting lucid, fast. When you close you eyes and daydream, have you ever had an extremely vivid like image. Even imagery that moves? Most likely after sleeping for a while, I'm sure you have. Also, don't you love it when this imagery disappears in like 2 seconds because your mind seems to realize that you're looking at a glimpse of your dreamworld while awakened so it makes the vivid imagery disappear? Well this is why I call it My _Fast Grab_, for what I'm going to have you do.


*The technique:*

1. Sleep for at least 4-6 hours, so that you're at REM.

2. Any time while you feel comfortable in bed (can be hours later if you want)...

3. Use the blackness of your eyelids, using your mind's eye (the same way you visualize) to....

Imagine darkness in front of you. Then imagine that darkness transitioning into a living world getting brighter and brighter. Don't worry about what it should look like, because your subconscious will take care of that. Example: When I say "dog", an image of a dog already shows up in your mind. When I say living world, than your perspective of a living world will show up. So in other words, the image should be completely random to you. 

Also, don't consciously make it vivid, because making the random imagery getting brighter and brighter will make it vivid for you. (I assume your mind does so because it knows that when it gets brighter in a room or outside, you can see more detail). So really all you have to think of is: A living world getting brighter.

5. So imagine this random jungle, park, room, wal-mart, whatever, getting brighter until its vivid enough to make you think its vivid. The first thought of you thinking its vivid, will be enough to start.

6. Immediately after the thought of it being realistic or vivid, use your *actual* hands to grab and touch the nearest got damn thing closest to you. This image won't last long so you'll have to be fast about. I say actual hands because for when you use your actual hands, it'll for that moment be your dream hands. 
(Yes, I discovered that the highest, strongest, most effective tactile movement is----Using your real body parts at a certain time, such as this!) 

Realizing the image and grabbing it might require little practice for some people. In the end though, its very simple and easy to do.

7. Once you grabbed it or touched it, remain feeling it until you absolutely know that you're in a dream. Most often, as soon as you grab something, you will already be in a dream, but its best to just do whatever you would normally do in an LD to stabilize and stay in it.

*Quick Summary:* Close eyes. Imagine darkness. Imagine it getting brighter and revealing a world until its vivid and then immediately grab a hold of something with your *real hands* to catch the dream. Stabilize.

*Quick way to tell yourself in bed what to do without confusing and worrying yourself:* "I'm gonna make it brighter in my mind so I can see and catch a dream with my real hands and not let it go".

*The Easiest and preferred way to remember:* 
"I'm gonna use my *My Fast Grab*, *bitch*!"
(sorry, had to add that word...)

Now this process should take anywhere from 2-15 seconds, 2 being my fastest and 7-10 being my average. This tech can be applied multiple times and if you manage to fail it or if the visuals aren't getting anywhere, start the process over again. 

*Requirements:*
-  4 hours of sleep
-  OK with visualizing
-  Persistence to give it a go again if you're unable to complete it.


Got any questions, I'll help when I can. 
Hopefully more people will take the initiative to _create_ methods of inducing LDs, instead of seeing repeats of the same techniques and dead-end questions. Who ever heard of an oneironaught not being able to to imagine? C'mon, think and create people. We need more discoverers out there, not relying on the same people(like 6 of us) to feed out techniques. So.......... I give out a challenge. 

I Challenge someone to make a technique faster than this.

I DARE someone to make an instant induction!

So, wanna try me? 
                          Can you _handle_ _it_?

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## Jorge

Sounds good, I'll wake up in about 4 hours, drink some Apple Juice, and go straight to it, I've never tried visualizing, so it should be pretty cool.


Also, I wanted to know I just lay there and visualize? Can I not move at all? Can I swallow? What are the rules " so to say? "

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## Malac Reborn

> Sounds good, I'll wake up in about 4 hours, drink some Apple Juice, and go straight to it, I've never tried visualizing, so it should be pretty cool.
> 
> 
> Also, I wanted to know I just lay there and visualize? Can I not move at all? Can I swallow? What are the rules " so to say? "



You shouldn't think of those problems, just do as instructed. It's logical that your not supposed to move btw...

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## MRooney

Trying this tonight, sounds pretty cool. Thanks.

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## DarthDallas

> The method itself is named, *Malac's Fast Grab* (or if you hate my name than you can call it "My Fast Grab").



I do, in fact, hate your name so ill call it MY fast grab. But good technique i likey!!

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## wendylove

Okay, I did everything up to 6, however everytime I grab the object it just disappears. I go to grab the object really fast and then nothing. 

Note, this technique is really good. Next time I will get out of bed and do a RC, as I think it might have worked and I just stayed in bed, LOL.

Also, do you feel its really hard to move you're hand. Because to grab the object its weird, like moving outside you're body. There a strange feeling of you're arm being in two places at once.

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## smcmaho

i tried this technique last night. It found it kinda hard to attempt to grab something thats purely visual. And when I did try and grab it, the landscape would just dissapear instantly.

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## archdreamer

This is interesting. The idea that trying to move your real hand, will, for that brief moment, actually move your dream hand and draw you into the hallucination, had never occured to me. The suggested names, of course, are awful, and will never catch on. The technique seems promising.

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## Malac Reborn

Ha, yea the first time I did this, like 2ish times of trying or so, my hand did move slow and weird. Make sure that the image is vividly clear to where you think you can catch it. Like seeing _color_ vivid. It's like your forcing yourself in the dream lol. I forgot to mention this but I did a nose rc(with my own hand) and i felt my self forcing into the dream lol.

Btw for those who still don't get it, when I say getting brighter, don't imagine "light rays", just the imagery getting more brighter and clear.

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## Shaelyn

The idea of using your "real hand" to grab an object reminds me of a dream recall technique. When you wake up don't think about what you dreamed but what you "did".

Well, nice technique I think I might try it sometime. Not tonight though I have other expieraments going on at the moment. Also ... your name isn't bad. LOl

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## Excessaccess

Do you wake up after 4-6 hours and immediately lay back down and begin the technique? Like when your still half asleep and could easily fall totally asleep in 10 seconds.. or is it only the strength of your visualizations, at any time after waking, that matter?

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## Shaelyn

That is a good question can you do it any time after waking or right after? Does it work better if you don't even open your eyes and go straight into the visualization.

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## Malac Reborn

> Do you wake up after 4-6 hours and immediately lay back down and begin the technique? Like when your still half asleep and could easily fall totally asleep in 10 seconds.. or is it only the strength of your visualizations, at any time after waking, that matter?



I posted that you can do it anytime during REM, so yes, you don't have to do it immediately. Its best to do so while still sleepy though so you're visualizations are easier to come. Experiment.

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## Excessaccess

hmmm.. alright, sounds good. I'll give it the ole' college boy try, tonight. Thanks.

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## lagunagirl

> I Challenge someone to make a technique faster than this.



Ever heard of FILD? 

haha but anyway, this sounds like it could work. I'll give it a few weeks and see how it goes...

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## batman

Sounds very interesting.  I'm currently trying other stuff right now, but when I get a chance, I may just have to try this =]]

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## Malac Reborn

> Ever heard of FILD? 
> 
> haha but anyway, this sounds like it could work. I'll give it a few weeks and see how it goes...



Yes, before you I'm sure. Was gonna contact Hargarts so we could perfect it some year or two ago.  Anyways, Fild isn't much effective to working and is often difficult. Filds transition is fast, *not* the speed of it working, and *it'll never be as fast as this*. Also, it's chances of working are also slim and depending how close to the border of sleep you are, it'll only work then . The only reason Fild's statistics of working is higher then a normal Wild, is because its easier to do than to concentrate for an hour. Fild also gives little clarity and short dreams on often(on average). What I'm saying is---- Don't compare Fild to this  :smiley: 

Heh and weeks on this? I'm sure you'll spend years enjoying this. It's easy, rapid, effective, and provided you can do it multiple times once accustomed to it, its very valuable

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## dcs82009

Sounds like a good technique, but there's something I don't get.

When you grab the object, are you supposed to be visualizing something that, in reality, is close to your bed so you can grab it, or do you only reach out your "real" hand, but don't actually grab anything physically because there's nothing there?

Did that make any sense?

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## Malac Reborn

> Sounds like a good technique, but there's something I don't get.
> 
> When you grab the object, are you supposed to be visualizing something that, in reality, is close to your bed so you can grab it, or do you only reach out your "real" hand, but don't actually grab anything physically because there's nothing there?
> 
> Did that make any sense?



........ Did you read it...the whole thing? Read it again, it'll explain more than what I can tell you right now, then ask again if you're still confused  :smiley: 

_Steps 3 to 7_, more specifically.

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## imj

I thought you meant *MFG* as Mother F...G GOOD..... ::D: .

IMJ

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## Chef

I tryed this technique but ended up doing it in my dream 3 or 4 times. But dident figure i was dreaming o.O

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## Malac Reborn

> I tryed this technique but ended up doing it in my dream 3 or 4 times. But dident figure i was dreaming o.O



Yea, make sure you do an RC if you think you failed. You'll be surprised.

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## Erikkujonson

I will certainly try this soon, at the moment I am trying the declining alarm technique (http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=65376) but I will try this as soon as I get around to it, it seems quite promising!

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## dcs82009

> ........ Did you read it...the whole thing? Read it again, it'll explain more than what I can tell you right now, then ask again if you're still confused 
> 
> _Steps 3 to 7_, more specifically.



Of course I read it.

I even read it again to humor you, but found that my question was still not answered, and though I think I know the answer, I just want to clarify it for myself and others.





> Immediately after the thought of it being realistic or vivid, use your actual hands to grab and touch the nearest got damn thing closest to you. This image won't last long so you'll have to be fast about. I say actual hands because for when you use your actual hands, it'll for that moment be your dream hands. 
> (Yes, I discovered that the highest, strongest, most effective tactile movement is----Using your real body parts at a certain time, such as this!)



When you do this step, do you just reach out your real hands to "grab" something in your visualization, or do you actually, tangibly grab something near the bed in your room?

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## Erikkujonson

I think this should be titled *GILD* for Grabbed Image Lucid Dream, simply because the "ILD" thing is quite catchy and I think most people will think of/use this technique more if it soulds all official & stuff  :tongue2:

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## Jamoca

I tried this last night with some good results. Here is what happened, pasted from my DJ. Anyway, I really feel like this has some potential and I think it should be experimented with more. I will keep on working on it. 

Maloc's Fast Grab
I attempted this technique with interesting results. I visualized a world and started to see bright colors. However, I didn't wait until it formed, I just tried with all my might to reach out with my hands. I found that I couldn't and my body felt incredibly tight and bound. My dream hands sunk into a pool of molten color and it was the strangest feeling. Unfortunately I did not enter a lucid dream. The whole experience felt like a fast WILD, in a way. It was really great. I want to try it again.

I tried it another time in the night but I didn't visualize anything and I was on my belly so I ended up just hitting my bed with my real hands.

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## Jamoca

> When you do this step, do you just reach out your real hands to "grab" something in your visualization, or do you actually, tangibly grab something near the bed in your room?



If I understand correctly you use you real hands to reach out and grab something in the dream. The thing is, when you do this your real hands do not move, instead your dream hands move and grab the dream world and pull you into it.

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## Malac Reborn

> I tried this last night with some good results. Here is what happened, pasted from my DJ. Anyway, I really feel like this has some potential and I think it should be experimented with more. I will keep on working on it. 
> 
> Maloc's Fast Grab
> I attempted this technique with interesting results. I visualized a world and started to see bright colors. However, I didn't wait until it formed, I just tried with all my might to reach out with my hands. I found that I couldn't and my body felt incredibly tight and bound. My dream hands sunk into a pool of molten color and it was the strangest feeling. Unfortunately I did not enter a lucid dream. The whole experience felt like a fast WILD, in a way. It was really great. I want to try it again.
> 
> I tried it another time in the night but I didn't visualize anything and I was on my belly so I ended up just hitting my bed with my real hands.



Glad to hear your results and I'm sure I will hear many more soon. :smiley:  The more people attempting this, the better. For this, I believe, is *the* technique to do.





> If I understand correctly you use you real hands to reach out and grab something in the dream. The thing is, when you do this your real hands do not move, instead your dream hands move and grab the dream world and pull you into it.



Presto you answered correctly. I told him to to read the following steps but I can now see how they could confuse as what to grab. If I could, I would edit the OP. Anyway to do that?

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## snoozer

Tried your technique, but i think i was too sleepy. I remember waking up early early in the morning and say i was going to attempt it, but i can't recall. At any rate heaps of vivids, i wil try again tonight. As a sidenote I'm awarding -5 internets for quoting yourself.

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## Erikkujonson

I tried last night and the image of my world began forming but it lost shape and I tried again, but lost it again... I guess I need to try to improve my visualization skills, but I fell asleep during one attempt

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## Lionsroar

I tried it last night.. I dont I'm good at visualization? Am I supposed to imagine a place that I like? or an actual place Im familiar with? Is it first person or third person? 
PS: I've never had a lucid dream btw so I kinda reckon on my input is void lol

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## Cammy

my real hand kept moving and woke me up  :Oops:

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## Malac Reborn

> I tried it last night.. I dont I'm good at visualization? Am I supposed to imagine a place that I like? or an actual place Im familiar with? Is it first person or third person? 
> PS: I've never had a lucid dream btw so I kinda reckon on my input is void lol



If you read again, its supposed to be random. Mostly the image will be in first-person as in, its just a vivid image with you not having a body( you might, depends on your image) 





> my real hand kept moving and woke me up



Well for you having to do this method, you were already awoke to start off of. How did you hand keep moving? You mean, did you try it repeatedly, because if you did, make sure the image you see is vivid enough and only catch a dream-something then.

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## Malac Reborn

For the people who absolutely suck at visualization. Try this visual technique. Imagine what first comes in your mind. Imagine it alive. _Example: if its a forest, then think of an active forest. When you do this your mind will have trees moving by the wind and deers running around. Whatever your subconscious thinks of, it'll be unique and different everytime because it will be random._ Once you thought of this moving random image, keep it in your mind and don't do anything conciously on your part to influence it. It should by nature, get vivid on its own. This method though may take anywhere from 15 secs to 2 min. But for you beginners, it should be alright. Also if you can, do this method now or asap, then do it when you attempt MFG so that its easier upon your self. 

P.S. Right now, I'm working on a tech that will only take 3 seconds to do. If my theory on it is right, it should either require no visualization OR it'll provide visualization already to you (OR it might not work at all). Not saying anymore about it. For now, I want people to read this guide thoroughly to understand it and have fun with it.

P.S.S. I still offer my challenge ::D:

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## Excessaccess

Ok, so I've been trying to do this for the past two nights. The technique, as intended, hasn't worked for me yet. But I tried to do it so many times, that I actually tried it while I was dreaming and voila!

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## Mercen_505

That's a pretty interesting technique. I gave it a spin last night when I woke up around 4 A.M. As I closed my eyes I started to see a grayish fog which lightened into a fuzzy scene within about five seconds. A few seconds later it become much clearer and I began to wonder if this was the moment I was waiting for... but after about three seconds it began to fade. I had waited too long as I was expecting it to come into focus better. I made a second attempt, but apparently I only succeeded in going back to sleep  :Eek: 

I think this has potential; I shall try again tonight.

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## Sil3nt

wow this technique sounds promising, so when you imagine everything getting brighter and brighter do you literally see it getting brighter?

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## RockNRoller123

Hey man, I like your technique. However, I don't like the beginner visualization part. Can you please clarify the normal visualization part?

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## Malac Reborn

> Hey man, I like your technique. However, I don't like the beginner visualization part. Can you please clarify the normal visualization part?



I wrote it in the OP.

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## RockNRoller123

Oh, Thank you.

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## Malac Reborn

> Oh, Thank you.



Np, the beginner viz. is a tech i wrote for beginners to do in case they found the viz that was written in the original post difficult. If your confused still, i have 20 min of free time to answer questions.

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## RockNRoller123

Cool.

SO...

Can you walk me through how you might typically visualize for your technique?

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## Malac Reborn

> Cool.
> 
> SO...
> 
> Can you walk me through how you might typically visualize for your technique?



Sure, wanna go to chatroom so it'll be an easier convo? Or discuss it here?

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## RockNRoller123

Here's cool.

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## Malac Reborn

I would sleep for like 4-6 hours. Don't matter as long as I'm in REM, though its easier to do when very tired because HI gives a huge advantage to visualization. Then I would take care of business and attempt this method. (------A whole paragraph got erased because I had to refresh page....)

I would then, think of a random place, such as a room or outside, and hold it in my mind. Then, I would imagine it getting more clear and colorful, while being "lively", meaning the grass will be sway with the wind and people walking around.(<--- This paragraph is the rewritten version, that summarized the first one ...the first one was more detailed......)

*In fact: Don't think of it getting brighter but instead, think of it getting more colorful. Lol I finally thought of the perfect word to explain it*  Anyways in its basic form: Think of a lively world getting more clearer and colorful in a slow fading transition type of way. Like how you would wipe a windshield from rain. You keep wiping and wiping and it gets more clear. Once its vivid enough to "daze" you, making you think _wow_, then hurry, with your real hand, grab a nearby object (like a pice of grass, or a rock, or even touching a wall, anything. Could be a toy.) and hold on to it, you'll then instantly feel yourself in the dream. It will sway or something, like your forcing your self in and its stabilizing lol. Then after that, I would do my normal stabilizing technique such as spinning or examining the ground, to have a perfect lucid. By the way, this technique has given me highly vivid lucids upon entering, so you won't have to worry about fuzzy dreams and so. Well, its about that time. Cya

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## RockNRoller123

*Wow...*

*Thats* *GENIOUS!*

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## Sil3nt

Wow some really interesting happened last night, when i was going to bed and just looked at the blackness between my eye lids i imagined everything getting brighter and out of no where i see these 2 chairs that are in my backyard it looked 100&#37; real but a little dim it was their for a few seconds than it disappeared

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## Malac Reborn

Ok heres a re-modified better edited way of saying it so you guys complete it the _first_ time.

As I said, this technique works *anytime REM is available*. I'd advise for you to do it atleast by 5 min of waking up, as HI will dramatically increase your visualizations faster and more vivid.

*First,* after you wake. Take care of business, like a restroom run, or snack. Iff you don't have anything like that to do then move on to the next step.

*Second*, close your eyes and right there where the darkness is in front of you, imagine an image that your familiar with, like your room, or somewhere outside, getting more clearer and colorful each passing moment. Clearer, bright and colorful, clearer, bright, _and_ colorful. Make sure this image that you're trying to reveal is right in _front of you_, like its filling in the darkness that you were originally looking at. This process will be fast and should only take 3-15 seconds, 10 on average for it to be right on spot.

*Third.* Seems like most people don't know how vivid it has to be for the grabbing procedure begin .You'll know when the image is vivid enough, _when you end up noticing that your actually examining it_like its real(because it'll look real).

*Fourth.* At that point, when you notice yourself examining it, using your *real hands*, grab the nearest image/dream object ASAP. You'll probably have only 2 seconds upon after realising that your examining it, to grab something, ANYThing. If you haven't found the nearest object of the image, just reach out your hands anyway and sway around or something to grab something. Just like if you fell off a building, you would grab something using instincts, sight, whatever to grab anything to catch on to. Same thing applies to this lol.

*Fifth,* As soon as you got your object, you will feel as if your completely transistioning in the dream world. DON't let go of it yet, keep holding and touching it until your satisfied that you are safe to say that your completely in the dream. After that, do a stabillize tech(I recommend) and reward yourslef with the title of Dream-Catcher  :smiley:

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## Godl!ke

I ended up in a VILD when I tried this. Great stuff :smiley:

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## LucidDreamGod

It would work great if my visualization wasn't crappy, I need to practice more consistently, I have practiced on and off for a year and it doesn't seem to help unless I keep at it day to day.

Although the technique does work in a DEILD sense, because it is pretty similar to my DEILD technique, it just sucks when I'm awake for some time.

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## lagunagirl

> Yes, before you I'm sure.... 
> 
> Don't compare Fild to this  ....
> 
> Heh and weeks on this? I'm sure you'll spend years enjoying this....



I admire the confidence but you don't suppose you're border lining on arrogance? I wouldn't be so sure that everyone is going to think it's the most amazing technique ever, even if it is good to some extent. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it will work _as well_ for everyone else. But it's good you're trying to help people  :smiley:

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## Klace

> I admire the confidence but you don't suppose you're border lining on arrogance? I wouldn't be so sure that everyone is going to think it's the most amazing technique ever, even if it is good to some extent. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it will work _as well_ for everyone else. But it's good you're trying to help people



Yeah. But then again it's malac, so it's nothing new.

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## Malac Reborn

> I admire the confidence but you don't suppose you're border lining on arrogance? I wouldn't be so sure that everyone is going to think it's the most amazing technique ever, even if it is good to some extent. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it will work _as well_ for everyone else. But it's good you're trying to help people



Oh trust me it does. People who slightly done it wrong, still feels its potential results. My little brother, who didn't even know what an LD was, and two of my friends, does this. I'm sure it'll work fine for everyone  :smiley: 

Heh _thanks_ for the advice though....

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## Malac Reborn

> Yeah. But then again it's malac, so it's nothing new.



Exactly elaborate on that. Some person that absolutely knows nothing about me, places some type of false tense on me like I'm mischievous? Grow up kid, don't act like you know me.

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## yarjar

Visualizing is one of my strong points... wow, I'll have to try this tonight, if I remember when I wake up that is.

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## Jamoca

So I tried it last night but it was too close to the morning, with too much light out, for me to really do anything. I ended up drifting off to sleep instead. I'll try again tonight.

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## wendylove

Wow, I had three successful attempts at this. Malac I see you're finally delivered on you're claims, lol. 

Anyway, I would just like to add something. I think it is better to just try and get out of you're bed then just grab an object with you're hand. I'm most successful when instead of just trying to grab an object I try and grab something and quickly get up and out of my bed. However, you will need to do an RC when out of it.

The only way to fail this technique is not to get out of you're bed and do an RC. Also, you have to visualize.

Malac, I think you should mention something about getting out of bed, as it seems to be easier and quicker. Also, I think people are being successful with you're technique and then just waiting in their bed, which is weird.

Also, Its really easy to mistake moving you're dream hand with you're real hand.

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## DreamOfBeams

I don't get this.

I get on the bed close my eyes and start visualizing, then I reach out my real hands and nothing happens, I'm still awake and everything.

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## Klace

> Exactly elaborate on that. Some person that absolutely knows nothing about me, places some type of false tense on me like I'm mischievous? Grow up kid, don't act like you know me.



Of course I know you malac.
I've been here since you first joined the forum.
Remember that 100&#37; technique you never shared with anyone but spent so many pages gloating and arguing about?
You also know me, I created DEILD.
Now I'm not saying this technique is bad in any way, in fact the testimonials have been glowing, so I congratulate you and I hope to try this soon.
(I can't on school days, so maybe this weekend. ^^)

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## Erikkujonson

K, I tried last night and past a certain point couldn't get my image to look more vivid and I kept losing it after I hit that wall because I would concentrate on makin it brighter and lose concentration on the image, I never got to the point where I was looking at my image rather than creating it, but when I kinda thought I did I reached out my arms and nothing happened... my real arms moved.

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## RockNRoller123

Does this only work with WBTB or do naps work too?

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## balljoint

I don't know if I dreamed that this happened, but I did a version of this last night, and it worked!!

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## Malac Reborn

> Wow, I had three successful attempts at this. Malac I see you're finally delivered on you're claims, lol. 
> 
> Anyway, I would just like to add something. I think it is better to just try and get out of you're bed then just grab an object with you're hand. I'm most successful when instead of just trying to grab an object I try and grab something and quickly get up and out of my bed. However, you will need to do an RC when out of it.
> 
> The only way to fail this technique is not to get out of you're bed and do an RC. Also, you have to visualize.
> 
> Malac, I think you should mention something about getting out of bed, as it seems to be easier and quicker. Also, I think people are being successful with you're technique and then just waiting in their bed, which is weird.
> 
> Also, Its really easy to mistake moving you're dream hand with you're real hand.



So that means, you visualized being in your room then? That seems to only work if your in your room, right? Most of the time, people could end up anywhere in the dream world lol, so I wouldn't think they could grab something _then_ get up from bed, unless I misread your way of doing, which I think I did. 
Nice to know you and others are having LDs with success. Some who got it wrong, still had LDs, interesting. Win-Win? Anyways, I hope that everyone soon gets to the state of getting this technique down, as its very easy. Once you get it the first time, every time after will be easier.

Heh, see WendyLove already adapted to this and even made a little variation of it, if you will. Nice. Whatever makes it easier for you. There is so much in this field of the visualisation link with *real* movement to force your self in, that many possibilities can be found and accomplished. 

 For now, I would like everyone to get the first one down before they try something a little more complicated lol. Or try whichever, your guys choice  :smiley: 

@erik Did you read my edited short version? Try making the image more clear, colorful and bright, and real. Adding more details more and more to the image helps too.

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## Malac Reborn

> Of course I know you malac.
> I've been here since you first joined the forum.
> Remember that 100% technique you never shared with anyone but spent so many pages gloating and arguing about?
> You also know me, I created DEILD.
> Now I'm not saying this technique is bad in any way, in fact the testimonials have been glowing, so I congratulate you and I hope to try this soon.
> (I can't on school days, so maybe this weekend. ^^)



Yea, I remember that lol. Wonderful times......

----------


## Erikkujonson

yes, malac I did read the revised/simplified post, but I thought you still wanted the visualization to form itself out of a simple brightening, but I see what you mean and will try this again tonight, and probably every night for a while  :smiley:

----------


## hellopotato

can you elaborate on how to move your "real hands" and not actually move them in real life, causing you to snap out of your visualization? seems like a problem i'd have with this tech. 

visualize like crazy...then..grab onto something... only to wake up. balls. 

please elaborate.

----------


## Malac Reborn

> can you elaborate on how to move your "real hands" and not actually move them in real life, causing you to snap out of your visualization? seems like a problem i'd have with this tech. 
> 
> visualize like crazy...then..grab onto something... only to wake up. balls. 
> 
> please elaborate.



You will move your *real hands*, only when you do so you'll find that you ended up moving your dream hands. Example: Close your eyes, imagine a scenery, and then use your real hands to grab an object in that image. _Do this now_. 

See how simple it is. Ok then, when you do the actually thing you will do the visualizing method of making an image brighter, colorful, and real to the point that you'll find yourself examining the image because it looks so real, then as soon as you do realize how vivid the image is, you would use your real hands, just like in the practice example, to catch any type of /imagery/vivid daydream/whatever imagery material and hold on to it. Then, when ya do that, you'll find yourself in a dream as if you're holding on to it. (Feels like you're forcing your way in lol) After that just stabilize or whatever you do in the beginning of an LD. 

By the way: This induction method places you initially in a high quality Lucid. Great thing too is that it's easier to do the more you do it to the point where you just wake up, take a piss, search internet, walk the dog, lay in bed for 10 secs and then your in ld land lol. Or...just wake up and do it immediately... doesn't matter, as long as you're in REM and how well you can do it. 

Beginners should do this close to immediately upon awaking (like 5 min or less), and after doing it like 5 times (which could be in one night), you could just do it an hour later( if you have something important or whatever to do) and during naps (If you're in REM).

----------


## RockNRoller123

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't really understand that part either.

The more I understand it, the more I can see how this would work.

----------


## charzard

heh, I'm ok with the initial title of the method. I think if I tried to get my friends into LDing, malac's fast grab would sound a lot less cooky than wilds,dilds, and milds,lol.

   (my friend)" no charlie, I want nothing to do with your dilds, I'm not that way."

----------


## Malac Reborn

> heh, I'm ok with the initial title of the method. I think if I tried to get my friends into LDing, malac's fast grab would sound a lot less cooky than wilds,dilds, and milds,lol.
> 
>    (my friend)" no charlie, I want nothing to do with your dilds, I'm not that way."



 Nice to have more people try out Lding. I would assume that they're not that good with visualizing, maybe thy are. 

I thought of an easier way for beginners to visualize. Just lay in bed with a random daydream that you don't have any influence on. That daydream will get more vivid and more clearer over a short amount of time. Then when they notice they're looking at a very vivid image, grab an object(not mid-air) from the imagery and hold on to it  :smiley:

----------


## MSUPokerGod

Just curious, whats your success rate on this?
I'm going to try this tonight, and I think I have an advantage: I normally fall asleep within 10 seconds when I first try to go to sleep every night. Dunno how.

----------


## wendylove

> Just curious, whats your success rate on this?



I don't know about malac, however I had about seven lds since starting this. Proberly, more. 

Malac, I think you're emphasis on the moving you're arm is making this technique to complicated. Also, I fail to see how you need to visualize, all you need to be is sufficently tired and slept for a long amount.

I think it more efficient just to move out of you're bed and do an RC, and don't bother with grabbing an object.

----------


## spaceexplorer

> You will move your *real hands*, only when you do so you'll find that you ended up moving your dream hands. Example: Close your eyes, imagine a scenery, and then use your real hands to grab an object in that image. _Do this now_.



Ok this really needs explaining better.

Can you answer these questions in as few words as possible...

1) Do your real (as in physical, actual) hands EVER move in this process?

2) if your real hands do move, isn't this going to effect your ability to fall into the dream?

3) If your real hands never actualy move, but it's just an imagination of your real hands moving, then, why refer to them as your real hands?


I can see the benefit of focusing on tactile hallucinations to enter the dream, as i've always found the tactile aspect of the dream to be the first and last element of the dream to start/end.

I'm not being funny here, i just need this reworded in a way that dosn't cause confusion.

Do my physical hands ever move in this process?

----------


## SpikeZx

Yeah I think he means your REAL hands.

But ah, got a favor to ask.
I want to try out this technique, but unfortunately my visualization skills kind of.. major suck.
So could you.. or anyone tell me how or link me a site on how to practice it.

Many thanks.

----------


## Sabre2552

> Ok this really needs explaining better.
> 
> Can you answer these questions in as few words as possible...
> 
> 1) Do your real (as in physical, actual) hands EVER move in this process?
> 
> 2) if your real hands do move, isn't this going to effect your ability to fall into the dream?
> 
> 3) If your real hands never actualy move, but it's just an imagination of your real hands moving, then, why refer to them as your real hands?
> ...



No, your physical hands do not ever move. He says "real hands" so often because he is trying to make it clear that you are supposed to feel as if your physical hands are moving. They are not supposed to actually move, though.

----------


## Mercen_505

I've been trying this out over the past few nights and have yet to find any measure of success. I'll keep at it, however, as mastering the technique could lead to an easy LD for me every night.

----------


## spaceexplorer

> No, your physical hands do not ever move. He says "real hands" so often because he is trying to make it clear that you are supposed to feel as if your physical hands are moving. They are not supposed to actually move, though.



What in incredibly odd way to try and describe something. No wonder people are getting confused.

----------


## Sabre2552

> What in incredibly odd way to try and describe something. No wonder people are getting confused.



Not really... It's supposed to feel as if your hands actually move, so he tells you to move your real hands in the hopes that the technique will work and although you'll feel like your real hands are moving, it'll be in fact your dream hands that are moving.

----------


## spaceexplorer

In which case, why not simply and more specifically write "imagine moving your hands, so it feels as if you are moving your real hands"

Personally i think this needs to be rewritten in clearer language.
I was thrown by the wording and by the looks of it others were too.

If i say to someone "open your real eyes" 
Im expecting them to open thier real eyes... not some imaginary ones.
That's kind of what real means, surely? 
Am i alone in thinking this?

----------


## Jules2007

It's so funny how someone will post a technique and it's perfectly clear, and then 20 people will reply by saying "but what does that bit mean? Do you do this, or do you do that?" Even when it's already been explained a hundred times.

Oh, and great technique

----------


## Malac Reborn

> I don't know about malac, however I had about seven lds since starting this. Proberly, more. 
> 
> Malac, I think you're emphasis on the moving you're arm is making this technique to complicated. Also, I fail to see how you need to visualize, all you need to be is sufficently tired and slept for a long amount.
> 
> I think it more efficient just to move out of you're bed and do an RC, and don't bother with grabbing an object.



Elaborate on what you do, so I'll know what you're talking about  :smiley:

----------


## Malac Reborn

> In which case, why not simply and more specifically write "imagine moving your hands, so it feels as if you are moving your real hands"
> 
> Personally i think this needs to be rewritten in clearer language.
> I was thrown by the wording and by the looks of it others were too.
> 
> If i say to someone "open your real eyes" 
> Im expecting them to open thier real eyes... not some imaginary ones.
> That's kind of what real means, surely? 
> Am i alone in thinking this?



Everyone seems to get it except like 2 people...  I coudn't have said it better than the person above about how I've described this in easy terms multiple times.

Don't _imagine_ your real hands, _actually_ move them BUT when you do this your _real_ hands _won't_ actually move because you're attached to the image(theory).

----------


## spaceexplorer

> Everyone seems to get it except like 2 people...  I coudn't have said it better than the person above about how I've described this in easy terms multiple times.
> 
> Don't _imagine_ your real hands, _actually_ move them BUT when you do this your _real_ hands _won't_ actually move because you're attached to the image(theory).



So what you're saying is -dont imagine your real hands-move your real hands-but you're not going to really move your real hands- because it'll be your imaginary(dream) hands that move.

Right.

Surely if you've visualised something so strongly that when you go to move what you think are your real hands, that you're actually moving your dream hands... then you'd already be dreaming anyway? 

To be honest, if i could visualise something so strongly that it put me into a dream, then i'd not be worrying about methods to get into a dream. Because i'd already be in one!

The way i see it is:

If you are awake (visualising or otherwise) and you go to move your physical hand, it will be your physical hand that moves.

If you are dreaming and you go to move (what you think is) your physical hand, it will be your dream hand  that moves.

So...

Isn't this method just really... visualising until you enter a dream? 

Because if you're in a dream, any bodily movment you go to make will be your dream body.

----------


## Jorge

^^^

LOL just shutup and do it. 

Your making it overly-complicated. Just follow malac's technique and if it doesn't work then revise it to fit your needs. There's no need to work out everything... ::lol::

----------


## spaceexplorer

> ^^^
> 
> LOL just shutup and do it. 
> 
> Your making it overly-complicated. Just follow malac's technique and if it doesn't work then revise it to fit your needs. There's no need to work out everything...



You're assuming i havn't.  :tongue2: 
Tried it quite a few times over the past few days.
No sucess with it.

It also made me question the process.
Because if i move my hand and it's my dream hand moving. Then i'm already dreaming... the movment of the hand hasnt put me into the dream.


(plus i disagree! I think it's quite healthy to work things out... as it's the very same mindset you use to "work out" you're dreaming. Critical thinking is the lucid dreamers most powerful tool, both waking and sleeping.)

----------


## Erikkujonson

> You're assuming i havn't. 
> Tried it quite a few times over the past few days.
> No sucess with it.
> 
> It also made me question the process.
> Because if i move my hand and it's my dream hand moving. Then i'm already dreaming... the movment of the hand hasnt put me into the dream.
> 
> 
> (plus i disagree! I think it's quite healthy to work things out... as it's the very same mindset you use to "work out" you're dreaming. Critical thinking is the lucid dreamers most powerful tool, both waking and sleeping.)



Oh my god, that is the faggishest thing I've heard all day, just follow the instructions, move your real hands, and dont try to be a philosopher! Geez, stop over complicating things!

----------


## transflux

Malac's technique gives you an actionable plan, something that you can hook your intent to. Lucid dreaming is all about recognizing the right state and taking action. Grabbing the image stabilizes the entry to the dream. 

It's actually a pretty nice little trick although I agree with Wendy in that rolling out is more simple. It gives you a longer window of access. This is what I do by the way, suppressing thinking until I pass out or start to see hypnagogics. I recognize myself in this state by suggestions, then I just roll out. 

There are many windows of opportunities if you wake up slowly, you just need to switch to the next when one passes away. If I see hypnagogics I roll out. I used to grab for things but it often fails. 

Then there is a much longer tactile window of opportunity. In fact, you can try and "get out of your body" for minutes if don't move but keep repeating the same imagination over an over. It can be that you crawl out of your bed, on fours to the wall or just rolling onto one side in your bed over and over. It may take 5 minutes before it gets real. If it doesn't work out, you are at least programmed your mind and have a pretty good chance at semi-spontaneous OBEs later.

This method is not complete without using suggestions. You can encompass your intention into a power phrase such as "I'm gonna use my My Fast Grab, bitch!" as Malac or better yet, you can constantly rephrase the same intention so it won't lose its meaning.

----------


## spaceexplorer

> Oh my god, that is the faggishest thing I've heard all day, just follow the instructions, move your real hands, and dont try to be a philosopher! Geez, stop over complicating things!



I see MENSA has entered the room  ::roll:: 

Firstly DON'T use terms that are derogitory about peoples sexuality. It's incredibly immature and demonstrates a small mind. I'm sure there are more than a few gay people who use this forum and using terms that imply that homosexuality is a negative thing alienates them. Unless, you're refering to the english meat ball when you refer to faggot.

Also, the instructions are written in a way that isn't clear. Even you are now refering to the hands as "real" hands. Which they ARE DEFINITELY NOT, if they are your dream hands. 

Sorry if you think that questioning, critical thinking and philosophy are bad things. You'll lead a very deluded and bland life.

----------


## Jorge

^^^

Erikkujonson----> you got...OWNED!

LOL

----------


## Tweek

Hey so I tried this last night..  I woke up almost 2-3 times and tried it each time.

The problem was that I pretty much fell asleep before I even could get any real vivid images in my head.  Usually I'm really good at mental imaging, but last night was a disgrace.  Any ideas?

----------


## archdreamer

> Oh my god, that is the faggishest thing I've heard all day, just follow the instructions, move your real hands, and dont try to be a philosopher! Geez, stop over complicating things!




What the fuck. This is a ridiculous attitude to lucid dreaming.

----------


## Illusi0n

This technic sounds too good, at least i try, i&#180;ll be a little sceptical about it. 10-15 seconds?  ::shock::  God...If this works it will be the new Saint Graal of Lucid Dreaming! 

However, it&#180;s always positive to see people showing new prespectives, opening new patchs, and not always wasting time writing the sames tutorials...

----------


## RockNRoller123

At around 8 this morning I tried to WILD. I fell asleep and when I woke up, I immediately started visualizing for this technique. After about 30 seconds I found myself observing the scene I imagined, so I grabbed for something and it WORKED! The LD was only 10 seconds long, but it was the first one I've had since mid July! Thank you Malac!

----------


## Malac Reborn

> At around 8 this morning I tried to WILD. I fell asleep and when I woke up, I immediately started visualizing for this technique. After about 30 seconds I found myself observing the scene I imagined, so I grabbed for something and it WORKED! The LD was only 10 seconds long, but it was the first one I've had since mid July! Thank you Malac!



Heh np. That's why I said to stabilize once you're in the dream so you can stay in it  :smiley:  Should get easier now for you since you done it once.

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## RockNRoller123

Yeah.

It was crazy I tried to stabilize my dream by looking at my hands, which is the only way that works for me, but it was like my neck was broke and I couldn't look at them.

----------


## Excessaccess

I think I understand the "real hands" analogy, so I'm gonna throw in my two cents and maybe it will help somebody.

Like the practice example Malac used: imagining a scene and grabbing an object; actually using your physical body to grab an object. When attempting MFG, you would try to use your physical body to grab an object. Actually try to grab the object with your real, actual, physical hands. That's it.. If you've done it correctly, your actual hands won't move, but your imaginary dream hands will. 

Does that sound about right, malac?

Also, what is this rolling out of bed and doing a RC? This works for WILDs too?

----------


## Jorge

Malac, I tried this a few times. No success I fall asleep, also I can't get any vivid images formed in my mind. 

Could you help out with my visualing?

----------


## spaceexplorer

> I think I understand the "real hands" analogy, so I'm gonna throw in my two cents and maybe it will help somebody.
> 
> Like the practice example Malac used: imagining a scene and grabbing an object; actually using your physical body to grab an object. When attempting MFG, you would try to use your physical body to grab an object. Actually try to grab the object with your real, actual, physical hands. That's it.. If you've done it correctly, your actual hands won't move, but your imaginary dream hands will. 
> 
> Does that sound about right, malac?
> 
> Also, what is this rolling out of bed and doing a RC? This works for WILDs too?



Thanks!
That makes sense. 
Clearly worded. Nice one.

I suppose my only worry with this method is that if your real hands DO physically  move, then it's going to break the trance you've been creating. Which would be annoying.  Anyone had problems with that? and what solutions have you found?

----------


## moonshine

Correct me If Im wrong, but if you change 
"grab something" to "roll out of your dream body" isn't this just a WILD?

----------


## Mercen_505

> Thanks!
> I suppose my only worry with this method is that if your real hands DO physically  move, then it's going to break the trance you've been creating. Which would be annoying.  Anyone had problems with that?



That's what happens to me. I get to the point where I think the scene is vivid enough, but apparently it's not. I go to move my arms and move my physical arms and nothing else. Now... to be fair I have woken after a long night of sleep and been able to visualize much better; the occasions where I've been trying this technique have been at a different time of the night. I'll try again this weekend at a different time and see if I can achieve some measure of success.

----------


## Danislivingthedream

I'm definitely gonna try this tech tonight! I think it should be pretty easy... also when will you release this new tech (the one the does not require visualization) to the public? If it is as promising as your fast grab tech I think we would all like to hear it!

----------


## Malac Reborn

> Correct me If Im wrong, but if you change 
> "grab something" to "roll out of your dream body" isn't this just a WILD?



 Every technique from waking to dream is a Wild. Also, I can see that you're comparing moving your arms to rolling in the same sense that they both involvement, but no. They're not alike. I'll assume your capable of rereading this to see the difference.





> I'm definitely gonna try this tech tonight! I think it should be pretty easy... *also when will you release this new tech (the one the does not require visualization) to the public?* If it is as promising as your fast grab tech I think we would all like to hear it!



 I'm not going to say too much on it but it's in it's experimental stage of now. It's based on the principles of my fast grab tech and theories that go to the roots of the driving forces behind it. Etc. I'm hoping to make it a 3 sec induction tech without little or no visualization, but I'm not promising anything. For now, enjoy this tech or my other ones I posted and let's keep my developing tech from too much talk as to _prevent_ hype.

----------


## awakeness

does the image have to be first person view?

----------


## Malac Reborn

> does the image have to be first person view?



Yes, and if you suck at visualization and not the type to want to work on it because thats you, then try out M Wild, Wendy's variation of this. This tech is a little harder but gives you a sure shot. The variation of this is a little easier, but its like a flip of a coin chance. Choices choices  :smiley:  Got any questions as to why it work, don't be afraid to ask, just not a lot.

----------


## Excessaccess

> Thanks!
> That makes sense. 
> Clearly worded. Nice one.
> 
> I suppose my only worry with this method is that if your real hands DO physically  move, then it's going to break the trance you've been creating. Which would be annoying.  Anyone had problems with that? and what solutions have you found?



Thanks  :smiley: 

When I attempt this, I usually end up grabbing at nothing quite a few times, but it never really interrupts my next attempt. I wake up right at 4 hours, so I'm tired enough that I can fall right back into that relaxed state.. Maybe adjusting your amount of sleep before the attempt will keep you from totally waking yourself up when you grab..?

----------


## Oneirity Rising

I tried this technique last night, and got by far the most vivid visualizations I have ever had (I'm usually not very good at it). The images were almost solid, like they were actually there in real life.

I reached out to grab them, and saw my dream hand grab them, and go right through them. No luck. I kept grabbing at them, and they would fade momentarilly, but I couldn't actually _enter_ the dream.

Later, I woke up and realized that I was trying the technique _in_ a dream, which would explain why the visualization was so good. I was a bit annoyed that I didn't notice this, but that's nothing new. It ended up being a really fun dream anyway, though, so not a total loss.

Just to be clear though: When we're visualizing, it should be in the "mind's eye", and not actually trying to put the image on the inside of your eyelids, right? I think a large part of my problem is that I'm trying the latter more often than the former.

----------


## Noin

Didn't get it to work last time, tryin again tonight

----------


## maxy126

bout to go bed ill try this technique the theory seems like it will work! ill post tomo what happens

----------


## arby

Aha, Malac. You seem to have done well this time.

I'll be honest... someone told me you had another tech and I got my skeptic pad out and looked to see what it was all about. I was very happy to find a quite logical and helpful v-wild tech/supplement. I give this the arby official stamp of approval... whatever that means anymore around here XD

Also, no (well almost no) 100%/superiority dressings so I give you another  :Clap:  for that. Welcome to the trustable technique community, malac. =)

I leaned back, stepped through this and got a vivid rainforest (grabbed a big fern leaf) and it worked pretty well but I didn't like the pause after you grab the leaf and look around. It is a chance for instability when the visualization might not have fully stableized/matured yet. Thus I present a twist I played with. Instead I grabbed an interactable object and used it. In my case, I grabbed a stick off the ground and started to hit the things closest to me with it. Kept me occupied longer and led up a little plot (whacked an animal etc... not gonna get into all that XD).

----------


## archdreamer

Well, this worked for me last night, with some modification. I woke up after 6-7 hours of sleep, then lay back down to sleep. I then relaxed and let my mind wander for about 5 minutes, until I was in that stage where I was getting intermittent hallucinations. Then, I began to visualise a scene, becoming brighter. I turned my attention to my arm, and I could definitely feel both my dream arm and real arm superimposed. I focused on the dream arm, and began to move it forward. However, I didn't get far before it 'snapped back', and could again only feel my real body. I started up a new visualisation, just trying to see a single object this time (I didn't attempt  to consciously influence what it would be), and this time, was able to fully separate my dream body from my real body. I was then in a dream, in my bedroom, but my (dream) eyes were closed. I did many nose RCs, to make sure it was a dream (not having eyesight made it harder to spot differences), then sat down on my bed, and attempted to crack my eyes open. I managed this a few times, but each time, I felt like opening them any more would open my real eyes and wake me up, so I stayed blind. When I did crack my eyes open, I saw a sunset through the windows. The dream lasted about 20-30 seconds, probably because I had already slept quite a few hours, and because the curtains are basically useless, so there was sunlight streaming into my real bedroom. Also, I was unable to really do any of the usual stabilising techniques, such as looking at my hands, or examining objects. In hindsight, I should have thought to rub my palms together once I had done the RCs.

----------


## Tryble

Seems effective.  Last night I tried it out and it seemed to have worked.  I managed to slip into a dream but lost it shortly thereafter.  That was probably because I have not attempted LD'ing in a good while and am a bit rusty.
Still, for that amount of success on a first try, I was pretty impressed with myself and this method.

I remember reading about how there was all kinda of arguments of some such regarding a 'malac' but I'm not sure what that was all about...this idea of yours seems to be effective, as far as I can tell.  I'll work with it a bit more and see what happens.

----------


## arby

> I remember reading about how there was all kinda of arguments of some such regarding a 'malac' but I'm not sure what that was all about...this idea of yours seems to be effective, as far as I can tell.  I'll work with it a bit more and see what happens.



All you need to know is that Malac has made himself a... er "Well known figure" around here before. But from what I see, he might deserve a clean slate.

On that note, I just found the time to browse the thread and I have some more comments:

For people who are having trouble visualizing - There are many tricks and threads scattered around to help you do so. The best word of advice I can give you is to use something from memory. Any memory that is vivid. Movie, place you've been, place you've been in a dream.... If you can remember what it looks like well then you've already done the first few steps. You have visualized it. It is that easy. Then, you try to bring everything into better focus at once / brighten it / make it more colorful (They all describe the same thing, mind you. It's just hard to put it into words) and reach out to it with your hands that are in the same place as it.

There are a few good threads on visualizing. The one I would recommend most to partner with this tech is Kromoh's VILD due to it's more lightweight and conceptual nature. Tis exactly what the doctor ordered.

There's also a need to promote my own, of course, which is in my sig. Although it might be slightly too heavy for use here. It could help people who are grabbing thin air tho =O.

Helpful stuff aside, this is for you malac. Cut the "OMG I MADE A FAST TECH" crap. By defininition, all V-WILD (Visual WILD, your tech falls under this classification) can take under 10 seconds. And seeing as there have been many V-WILD techs before this, you lose. It doesn't even impress anyone. I can understand wanting more people to click on the title and make sure you get your 15 minutes of fame(somethign you've tried too hard for before, and not succedded at, at least in the way you were intending) But stop the gloating and the attitude. You know where it gets you. 





> I Challenge someone to make a technique faster than this.
> 
>  I DARE someone to make an instant induction!



"Materialize yourself conceptually into a dreamscape"

This is a fully functional technique although I've only met a handful of people who could do this. You might make it a handful plus one, i'm not quite sure. You're evidently on your way if you aren't there already. 

But desbite my bitterness, you're still good in my books, k? Stuff like this just gets on my nerves. It makes me feel like "100% inducction, $5.99!" or "10 second induction, $19.99" Is the next step for this once awesome and modest community.

Peace

----------


## maxy126

i tried last night and got up went toliet came back tried it i saw flashy colours then i saw pictures then it got foggy then i just failed :S ill try again tonite i think it was cuz i took like 10 minutes to actually try it

----------


## samf

I can't visualize at all and I don't understand Wendies method at all. Help!! I've tried this twice and it doesn't work at all, I can't visualize anything at all and i'ts extremely frustraiting. I can't even visulaize my own room! could you maybe post a visualization tutorial or something?

----------


## Lionsroar

> I can't visualize at all and I don't understand Wendies method at all. Help!! I've tried this twice and it doesn't work at all, I can't visualize anything at all and i'ts extremely frustraiting. I can't even visulaize my own room! could you maybe post a visualization tutorial or something?



Yeah what I'm wondering is.. how long does it take? and also..

IS visualization the same as imagination? cause for some reason I end up visualizing in the third person and stuff, even when I try not to..

----------


## Oneirity Rising

> Yeah what I'm wondering is.. how long does it take? and also..
> 
> IS visualization the same as imagination? cause for some reason I end up visualizing in the third person and stuff, even when I try not to..



I often have that problem, too. I haven't figured out why I sometimes imagine things in the first person and sometimes in the third, but I think it might have to do with how conscious I am. The more aware I am, the more I imagine things in the first person, which can be annoying because if I'm starting to drift off, it'll change. Do you find that to be true?

----------


## Jamoca

I'm trying this again tonight, wish me luck! I'll report on how I do. Hopefully I don't completely fall asleep when I am trying it.

----------


## nechong

i sleep at 12 and woke up around 4':30am, then went to restroom then tried to sleep and practise this..but i can't sleep..

----------


## Jamoca

So I tried this last night, but it was after about 9 hours of sleep and I wasn't too tired. I couldn't really visualize anything when I tried. I got bored and turned back on my side, unsuccessful.

----------


## flight

Many people may enter SP at different times of there imagery, some later than others for them reaching out and grabbing may possibly everytime move there real hand, just really a thought tho. 
But definitely sounds like a really wicked technic which i like a lot and will give it a shot. Im good at visualization and have seen many detailed pictures when tired on the onset of falling asleep. Can easily see how it would be applied and work for many people thanx for posting it bro

----------


## efkimo

How clear is it that you should try to grab the object? Is it obvious enough that you just _know_ that you should try?

----------


## Sony86

You just provided a possible answer to my biggest LD problem. I'm very grateful, I'll try it tonight.

----------


## lucid03

Thanks to Malac's technique, I had my first lucid dream last night! ::banana:: 
So thankyou malac for coming out w/ this technique. 

and for any other people who r curious, this technique is very easy. It took me about two minutes to let a vivid place come to me but once I did I simply grabbed the object, then did an Rc...and from that point on I was Lucid. Its Awesome!


ps. This was my first attempt w/ any lucid dream technique in months.

----------


## maxy126

how do you visualize ive tried this twice and utterly failed exactly what do you look for? :S

----------


## Malac Reborn

> Thanks to Malac's technique, I had my first lucid dream last night!
> So thankyou malac for coming out w/ this technique. 
> 
> and for any other people who r curious, this technique is very easy. It took me about two minutes to let a vivid place come to me but once I did I simply grabbed the object, then did an Rc...and from that point on I was Lucid. Its Awesome!
> 
> 
> ps. This was my first attempt w/ any lucid dream technique in months.



Heh, nice.

@maxy and everyone else who is confused with visualizing. Its just imagery. What to look for is vivid imagery that is described in this detailed thread. Simple and quick answer  ::D: 

While you guys hang tight and continue to attempt and work this, I'm trying different ways to optimize and make this more "user-friendly" than it already is lol. For those of you who had success with this, please describe your experience on what you did and how to help others who are having trouble visualizing.

----------


## lucid03

Well, when I was lying there, I just let some random thoughts come and go to allow me to become sleepy. After a little while I started to visualize a walmart, I was standing in one of the aisles. It seemed to get more vivid after a while and eventually I decided I was going to grab an object right next to me. I think it was toilet paper. But I didnt because I didnt want to wake up my body. But after one or two more delays I decided to do it.(When I did this I used my REAL hand, as in my hand that I brush my teeth with!) And then I laid my arm back on my bed and I waited about 30 seconds then decided to do an RC. It turned out I could breathe through my nose so I knew I was in a dream. I stayed calm and kept my eyes clothes for of waking up if I opened them, but in the end I opened to find that im in my bedroom. I then got out of bed and walked through my bedroom wall to change the scenery. I then ended up in a parking lot, Its then that I decided I was going to try and fly. So I jumped of a nearby hill, I started good but ended up falling. I spent the rest of the dream trying to fly but my legs seemed to get heavier and heavier so I couldnt. Unfortunatley I woke up and never got to fly. But Im still glad I had this expirence an am looking foward to the next one. Also I didnt think about it to hard when I was still visualizing, I just let it come naturally.

----------


## Lionsroar

> Well, when I was lying there, I just let some random thoughts come and go to allow me to become sleepy. After a little while I started to visualize a walmart, I was standing in one of the aisles. It seemed to get more vivid after a while and eventually I decided I was going to grab an object right next to me. I think it was toilet paper. But I didnt because I didnt want to wake up my body. But after one or two more delays I decided to do it.(When I did this I used my REAL hand, as in my hand that I brush my teeth with!) And then I laid my arm back on my bed and I waited about 30 seconds then decided to do an RC. It turned out I could breathe through my nose so I knew I was in a dream. I stayed calm and kept my eyes clothes for of waking up if I opened them, but in the end I opened to find that im in my bedroom. I then got out of bed and walked through my bedroom wall to change the scenery. I then ended up in a parking lot, Its then that I decided I was going to try and fly. So I jumped of a nearby hill, I started good but ended up falling. I spent the rest of the dream trying to fly but my legs seemed to get heavier and heavier so I couldnt. Unfortunatley I woke up and never got to fly. But Im still glad I had this expirence an am looking foward to the next one. Also I didnt think about it to hard when I was still visualizing, I just let it come naturally.



GAHHH Lucky you. 
 :Sad:  me still not lucky.

----------


## Erikkujonson

ugh, I keep falling asleep...

----------


## iank

This is interesting... I've had little things like what's mentioned. Like, when you close your eyes, you can see actual images, even people, just for a few seconds, and then it sort of melts away... Never really given it much thought, the few times it's happened, other than "that was weird". 

Might try it tonight, then!

----------


## JoeGreen

Can't seem to get it to work for me.
For some strange reason, I just fail to understand how to get a vivid
image in my mind. very frustrating. Usually i'm pretty good with visualizing,
but since I don't sleep very good lately, I might have changed my REM cycles.


Very good idea tho, very, hmph.. untraditional?


Joe, Gonna sleep @ 8pm, Inc.

----------


## Tweek

Attempted it when I woke up at about 11 this morning.  I'm pretty sure this doesn't work for going to bed at 3am and waking up at 1am if you have parents talking/making noise in the other room that late in the morning.

I can still tell I'm getting more experience though.  ::?:   Just gotta get used to how my own brain does things.

----------


## Sony86

The other night while practicing this technique, I came very close to success. I remember visualizing being inside my car, it was blurry yet vivid.. I grabbed the steering wheel and began to direct my car and it was definitely a dream for a few moments before I came back to consciousness. Awesome! I'll do it again tonight.

----------


## Howard

This worked for me  ::D:  I woke up at 7 ( Went to bed at 2. Good movie on TV) I remembered this and decided to just try it out. Had some trouble figuring out what to visualize. After a while i just closed my eyes and this desert like place appeared. I waited for around 10 seconds, and i just kind of tried to shoot my hand out. My real hand didnt move but my dream hand did. I did an RC and noticed i had 7 fingers. I decided to try flying, since i've never done it before. I just kind of jumped and i flew off. It felt really awesome. Kind of like a rollercoaster. I tried doing some barrel rolls and the likes, but it didn't work. Maybe next time. I suddenly woke up. Might have been an FA. I dont know. Anyway i closed my eyes again and went right back into the dream. I landed and tried blowing stuff up using my mind. It didnt work. I woke up for real now.
Will definately try this again  ::D:

----------


## DeLorean Dude

I was so damn close, I think I was thinking about it too much, also there is too much light.

Just now I came downstairs and closed my eyes and imagined one of them things with a pole help up in the air with metal legs that little carriages go across, except there was a train on it (the kind of modern ones you see today, nt a posh one just a normal crap one) and it was in New York... Weird. I couldnt reach into it, though.

I generally have good visualization.

Although, I did try it 4 hours after I woke up, so maybe my REM thing stopped.

----------


## andrew1123

I half-tried this last night before I went to sleep. I'll wake up tomorrow early in the morning and try it again.

When I tried it last night, I wasn't able to really visualize anything, but I think that's because I wasn't relaxed at all (with my siblings still awake making noise). I was however, able to move only my dream arms, trying to move my real ones once.

Maybe I suck at visualization. Might try Wendy's "less gay" version.

----------


## DeLorean Dude

Oh yeah, did I say when I tried it before, even though it was hours after I had woken up, I felt like I was physically wobbling, like when your on a boat, but more.

I am gonna try this properly when I wake up tomorrow and post results.  :smiley:

----------


## andrew1123

I've had that wobbling feeling before. Didn't realize that's what I should be having for this.

----------


## Malac Reborn

> I've had that wobbling feeling before. Didn't realize that's what I should be having for this.



He was just stating he had a wobbling feeling, you don't need to have a wobbling feeling for this.

Glad to see more and more people are getting this efficient tech to work :smiley:  If you feel like it *cough* rate it 5 stars * cough* heh. For those with visualization troubles still, just remember to let it come to you and not to pace it. When you do that, the image will come very fast.

----------


## DeLorean Dude

Interesting, today I woke up a bit early without trying to! I had already got myself properly awake without realising so I couldn't do a WILD or anything so I tryed this... It almost worked! I got the image of a flower in my head - a very vivid one - and was able to move it with my hand! Couldn't do an actual LD, though (my mum turned her radio on and played crap music after a few minutes, damn destractions!), but I will try again tomorrow!!!

EDIT: Just to add more detail, before I saw the flower I got a VERY vivid whiteness in my head and it went away in the same way paper does when its burnt from the middle but instead of fire there is light like rays of the sun... It looked very damn cool, anyway!

----------


## JoeGreen

Okay, sort of got it. Just needed to be in REM, which obviously didn't happen the last couple of times. The images actually disappeared very quickly, that made me move my arm and the wrong time, nearly punched my girl friend.

the second time it kind of worked, though I had nothing to grab on. Just moved my hand forward in the dream world, but.. it disappeard as well.. 
What do you do when that happens? (Thought about getting out of bed, litterly, as in M-WILD, but.. couldn't, was on the wall side.)

Oh =\. Prolly take a week before i'll get another chance at it. will post any attempts.

----------


## DeLorean Dude

> He was just stating he had a wobbling feeling, you don't need to have a wobbling feeling for this.
> 
> Glad to see more and more people are getting this efficient tech to work If you feel like it *cough* rate it 5 stars * cough* heh. For those with visualization troubles still, just remember to let it come to you and not to pace it. When you do that, the image will come very fast.



Yeah, I think its all to do with what living world your mind comes up with, and thats different for everyone.

Yeah, before I was kinda rushing it, I rekon it would work better on a weekend when I have more time and no distractions.

I was amazed by how vivid I was thinking though, its definatly havnig an effect, I will certainly make it work no matter what! Hopefully I wont have to wait months either, as I have had LDs before, I just dont remember them that well or anything, I might have even had hundreds I dont remember at all! ( they where all before I found this place)... I could be a proper natural for all I know, although if I was I would have better recall, wouldnt I?

Anyway, I started my DJ to help the memory and I will post my attempts at this. 

Thanks for the cool method, malac!

----------


## Howard

Didnt work for me tonight. Didnt quite get the visualization part.
Ah well. I'll probably try again tonight.

----------


## jereb

> Of course I read it.
> 
> I even read it again to humor you, but found that my question was still not answered, and though I think I know the answer, I just want to clarify it for myself and others.
> 
> 
> 
> When you do this step, do you just reach out your real hands to "grab" something in your visualization, or do you actually, tangibly grab something near the bed in your room?



I think you take your actual tangible hand, but you feel somthing that isn't real. Like imagine you have an apple in your hand. Feel it. Your not actually touching it, but you are imagining you are by using your hand and previous knowledge as stimulus. Also make the shape your hand would if you were holding an apple. Remember, I THINK this is what malac is talking about.

----------


## Tweek

> I think you take your actual tangible hand, but you feel somthing that isn't real. Like imagine you have an apple in your hand. Feel it. Your not actually touching it, but you are imagining you are by using your hand and previous knowledge as stimulus. Also make the shape your hand would if you were holding an apple. Remember, I THINK this is what malac is talking about.



rofl lololololololololololololololhahahahalololollololh  ahahahahahahahahaha

----------


## DeLorean Dude

Didn't get anywhere last night.

----------


## Erikkujonson

didnt get to do wbtb I went to bed way too late

----------


## sliim.

I attempted this last night with mixed results. I set my alarm to wake me up about 4 and half hours after i fell asleep that night. I turned over and tried to visualize, but that just kept me awake. After a couple minutes i just decided that I should just fall back asleep naturally, then finally i started having some HI. I kind of forgot the "grab" step, an instead  just kept doing the nose reality check too soon because i wasn't yet dreaming. Eventually I fell asleep and even though this technique didn't work exactly how i planned it would, I DID become lucid sometime through out the dream, and i will be trying this again tonight. This is the only technique that has partially worked for me so far, seeing as my first 3 LD's i just happen to realize i was dreaming.

----------


## SpikeZx

I know it's very hard to explain or w/e, but how do you visualize?
How do you train your visualization?

When I'm in bed I can think of something and then make it appear in the blackness when my eyes are closed, but it's foggy and blurry but when I think about it later it seems that it was sharp.. I can't explain it, do I keep doing this and I'll get better at visualization?
Cos I'd rly like to try this technique.

----------


## Lionsroar

Argh, I been trying this on-off for a while now.. no luck whatsoever.. 
Each time I visualise I somehow end up visualising in the third-person where as your supposed to be in the first person right? anyway, I tried the driving thing.. but it feels like Im controlling it too much, plus how long does it take for things to feel real?

----------


## Venomblood

I liked that you said "actual" hands.  I don't know how to move my "dream" hands, just my hands.  So when I think I'm moving my hands, it's actually my dream hands.  Funny stuff.  I haven't succeeded with it yet.

----------


## tommo

I tried this 2 nights ago.  I thought I had awesome visualisation.  I know I used to.  At least better than average.  But it turns out I got everything going in my scene EXCEPT the image.  haha.  I had the sounds of the people, the birds (I just incorporated them coz' I could hear them IRL) and the music being played.  It all sounded so real.  Then I had all the feeling in my body including a bit of coldness.  Then I incorporated the smell of weed lol.  I suppose I forgot about emotion.  But besides that and sight everything was great.  I started getting that floating and I walked in this scape and could feel my dream legs kinda seperating from my real legs.  But the image of walking down the aisles was still 'in' my head instead of behind my eyes.
After a few minutes I kind of lost it because I couldn't think of how to 'grab on' to sound.

I think my main problem is I keep on coming back to my real body sorta thing.  Anybody know how to stop this?  Obviously focusing attention on the other senses but it's really hard.

----------


## DanielWestman

This is kinda like the technique that is described in the LD4all guide.




> If you succeed in staying aware your hypnagogic images will become clearer. You will suddenly have a feeling you can now step into your dream. This is very hard to describe. The word that comes close is "knowingness"
> 
> With this knowingness you can *grab an object* you see before you or zoom in on an image. *This will pull you into the dream.*



I'll definitely try this tonight, sounds promising!
But don't you have to go into sleep paralysis before you can move your "dream" hand?

----------


## Creation X

This worked last night for me, the first time I tried it.
I can vouch

----------


## maxxwell_101

i just tried this last night after reading it yesterday. and it wored for me. i accdentaly lifted my waking hand to grab the imiage. i just told myself no, my real hand. and then it worked.

dream was super hard to stablize. not sure why. but i eventually got it.

thx for the tech

----------


## tommo

Yeh you would have to be paralysed first.

----------


## Marvo

I tried it, but didn't work out. I'm still positive towards the technique though, because I couldn't quite fall asleep after waking up anyway, so therein the problem probably lies.

----------


## Third Eye

Whenever I attempt to WILD I focus my attention purely on visualizing a landscape in front of me. Every so often I get quick flashes of breathtakingly real scenes that vanish before I can get the chance to really observe them. This to me is very frustrating because eventually after playing that game too long my mind wanders and I drift into sleep... :Sad:

----------


## Marvo

Bumpity bump.

I finally got it to work, but with limited results. See the thing is, I got up from my bed _at some point_ and I went back to bed. I remember getting some nice HI, showing what looked like a yard with some trees close to me. It took me some time before I realized I could still feel my bed and that I was actually dreaming, or atleast something close. I instantly tried to reach out for the trees, which worked. I could see my hands and control them, reaching out and all, but what didn't seem to work was grabbing anything. It was like I just couldn't reach any of the scenery, and it kinda seemed that things just got further and further away. In theory, I could just have raised and I would have been in a complete dream, but meh, logic is not the number 1 force when asleep.

It works, and from what I can feel and read, it's basically the same as dream chaining, as in getting up, then going directly back to bed and entering a dream, also known (as far as I know) as DEILD and FILD. I'm not too experienced in this field of lucid-dreaming though, but apparently it worked for me, so I should definitely look into it.

I can't really add anything to this technique, though I can definitely say that the biggest problem in performing it is not failing the grabbing, but rather falling asleep almost instantly once you go back to bed.

----------


## PSPSoldier534

I'm getting no results. Am I doing it wrong? Is this important? Can I do it when I go to sleep at night? I don't want to wake myself up early and use WBTB or h.i.l.d. I stare into black nothingness for about 10 minutes, and HI starts appearing. I make it black, and imagine the HI fade in (HI is the clearest way to imagine for me), but when I try to grab an object I feel it for a split second, and then just wake up. And it is not an FA.

----------


## Marvo

How many attempts so far?

----------


## PSPSoldier534

Hmm, I think it was 10±2.

----------


## Naturally Lucid

I don't know if literally grabbing the scenery would work. You know when you feel like your falling then wake up feeling like you just feel a few feet? It seems like grabbing it would startle yourself. I think a better way is to Not interact with it. To let it flow. I've found that when I let things happen, more than force weird things to happen, that they just come to me. It's worth a try for those of you who say when you tried to grab it that it didn't work....

----------


## tommo

That would be a normal WILD.  But yeh maybe that jsut works for most people.  If it doesn't you can just try this method.

----------


## Lusense

Just saw this topic and I get that imagery almost instantly and can get them to last somewhat long so I'll give it an attempt tonight it might work well for me I think. Do something similar as it is on occasion but never tried moving my real hand. 

Thanks, will give it a try.

----------


## acodemaster

> I DARE someone to make an instant induction!



Have you ever heard of DILD?

----------


## Malac Reborn

> Have you ever heard of DILD?



I think the real question is, have you?

----------


## tommo

Dude, he's right.
This isn't 10 seconds either because it takes way longer to get the visuals.
DILD you already have the visuals and just suddenly realise you are dreaming so become lucid instantly.  It just takes longer from when you start dreaming.  Unless you get lucid a few second after your dream begins.

I think the question is when do you start timing from?  What says this is 10 seconds?  Is it from the time you lay down to the time you enter the dream? Or the time you start getting visuals to the time you enter the dream.

----------


## moonshine

Well, I've just re-read Malacs original post. 

If your waking up, getting up, having a pee and going back to bed, then 
your going to be WILDing, and it will take a lot longer than 10 seconds. 

Though happy to be proven wrong on this.

----------


## Draoi

I never fall asleep quickly enough for this to work. Almost every time I've ever become lucid, I've had to concentrate for at least 20 minutes.

----------


## lonestarx

whoah its malac...

long time no see there bud. I thought I never see the day when you werent BSing us... but it has come. I know you dont remember but I was in the old days of DREAMVIEWS and LD4ALL or w.e when you first posted your 100%method or w.e. 

Again not here to hate its nice to see you decided to post it, or atleast part of it. I read and did as instructed. I still cant do this. For some reason this visualization stuff isnt coming to me. You said your nto suppsoed to imgaine nothing for just saying the words " living world" should bring a random picture to mind. Okay I might be one of the only people but it hasnt.... except once but it was a forrest and disspapeared all at once. I just dont get it....

----------


## Diggadog

Damn I wish there was a chance in hell of this working for me. I rarely have dreams yet alone lucids but I might try it.

----------


## tommo

I just tried this again last night.  I guess it's in the back of my mind.

However I wasn't to the stage I could see anything.  Again  :Sad: .
But I used my imaginary arm first to grab the, pretty much blackness but some HI.  It actually worked to get my SP really f'in strong.  But yeah I couldn't hold it and just had to sleep after a while coz no scenery came.

----------


## Creation X

this method owns for me now.
I don't even need to use my hands.

I start visualizing and I just "mind hop" into it.
it's really cool. for anyone who has done this A LOT (malac  ::D: ) try "popping" your body into it. It works, for me at least  :smiley:

----------


## Lucid Lobster

> this method owns for me now.
> I don't even need to use my hands.
> 
> I start visualizing and I just "mind hop" into it.
> it's really cool. for anyone who has done this A LOT (malac ) try "popping" your body into it. It works, for me at least



Great news then. This kind of happened to me only once in my life, I was awake, eyes closed watching a shape get more vivid and more vivid until all of a sudden it popped into a real scene and the next thing I knew I was in it. I'll retry again using these techniques.

----------


## RockNRoller123

Hey!!!!

Now I remember how I used to get lucid nearly every time I tried!!!

I used this!!

----------


## tommo

Well without the hand grabbing thing it's just a normal WILD lol

----------


## spaceexplorer

> Dude, he's right.
> This isn't 10 seconds either because it takes way longer to get the visuals.
> DILD you already have the visuals and just suddenly realise you are dreaming so become lucid instantly.  It just takes longer from when you start dreaming.  Unless you get lucid a few second after your dream begins.
> 
> I think the question is when do you start timing from?  What says this is 10 seconds?  Is it from the time you lay down to the time you enter the dream? Or the time you start getting visuals to the time you enter the dream.




Completely agree.
There really isn't anything new here.
And calling it a 10 second induction so emphatically and to be frank, arrogantly, is meaningless.
If you actually read the "Technique"
the very first step requires you to sleep for quite a few hours... which in itself immediatly wipes out the 10 second claim. If you ignore that side of things, then when is this magical 10 second timer starting? 
Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?

All thats really being said here is to focus on the tactile aspect of dream entry rather than the visual or auditory, which is a fair point, but dosn't qualify as a method in itself.

It makes sense that if you are visualising a dreamscene, to try and move in it.
Isn't that just obvious?
It's exactly what i'd do. Who visualises a dream scene and just ignores it and dosn't try and move into it?

I appreciate that people want to come up with techniques and have thier name put to it. Does that really mean we should just accept every variation on known methods as new techniques? I don't think so, maybe i'm alone on this, but i don't think i am.

----------


## DreamChaser

It may just be hard for people to search through so many threads.
Like "VILD" for example.
Who would know to search for it if you weren't around as long as some of us.
So they just whack their method on.

Maybe the solution is to put a method on and make no claims or copyrights and see what people say.
If its new you will get only great feedback.

----------


## tommo

> I appreciate that people want to come up with techniques and have thier name put to it. Does that really mean we should just accept every variation on known methods as new techniques? I don't think so, maybe i'm alone on this, but i don't think i am.



You're not alone.  It's starting to piss me off.  Everybody is re-wording old techniques, not even solely old; these techniques are on wiki ffs, and then acting like they came up with it.
Then all these noobs come in, and I've even seen mods follow the crows, and give the person all this praise, and 'thankyou thankyou thankyou'.
No I'm not praise-deprived, but the praise or recognition should go to the creators of the techniques.  WILD, VILD, WBTB, RC's etc.

Dreamchaser, it doesn't matter if they haven't been around as long as us.
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=66857
Every known, tested technique is in there.
People can adjust and twist it how they want, just as all these malac types have done.
As far as I can tell there will never be more than maybe two additions to that list.  One would be some sort of way to instantly go into the dream world.  Maybe some sort of drug which induces the exact same brainwaves as lucid dreaming.  The other would probably be a device which does the same thing.
You said "Who would know to search for it if you weren't around as long as some of us."  Who would know to search for Malac's grab technique?
Someone else is going to post the exact same thing in a few months except saying "when you see the dreamscape, lick whatever is in front of you".  You see what I'm saying?  It's exactly the same as rolling.

I guess what I'm saying is that none of these 'techniques' are unique.  They are just people's personal twists on techniques.

----------


## DreamChaser

True Tommo.
But would start to get boring if they didn't get a little imaginative.
Some points to them for effort though.

I agree all should go back to basics and stop looking for the Holy Grail, as no one thing will ever work for all.

----------


## tommo

Agreed, except for the boring part.

There is always something to discuss.  Maybe people would help others more often.
Also noobs wouldn't think they have to do it an EXACT way.

----------


## DreamChaser

> Agreed, except for the boring part.
> 
> There is always something to discuss.  Maybe people would help others more often.
> Also noobs wouldn't think they have to do it an EXACT way.



Well maybe they would be less confused.

----------


## Malac Reborn

*Snorts* The same couple guys that can't manage to do it start to find different excuses and insults, some not even related to the thread's topic. If you can't do it, go do something else. Also, "noobs"? Oh boy...

Anyways, I'm passed this project and found how to successfully WILD at will, if I'm in REM that is, and the *not disturbed by outside conditions* are right. Although it's easy, the current side effects that happen somewhat, if I fail, is SP. Most might say I didin't fail because SP can easily get you back in an ld, but as we all know, SP is annoying.. Everytime I get it, I just don't feel like getting another ld for the next couple minutes(sometimes) because SP is one of my turn offs...

I'll fix it soon anyways. After all the WILD techs Ive created, attempted, and seen, the induction that had it right the closest is the traditional visualization WILD. Closest but not exact. Its probably half-right there but has so many unnecessary steps and things to do, that I laugh thinking about it. There are methods of visualizing specific detailed landscapes to thinking of shapes, colors, and even preteending to smell and hear things. All unnecessery. 

Yes, they can work, if you prefer wasting time and actually enjoy the fun action of hit and misses. Yea, I remember my first days of waiting for an hour, 2 if I was desperate, and sometimes had the luck of experiencing REM atonia (SP for the new guys). So let's look specifically on what people do on the traditiional WILD. First they would think of some mental goodies in their mind in a quiet boring night. Then if they could face the treacherous wait, the itching (and saliva for some), the inassurity of 'if you're doing it _right_', and various other factors, they would make it to SP. SP, the big cheese of the night, the reason why you woke up early and stayed awake for an hour. The sacrifices you made all comes down during SP. Will you make it into WonderSex Land, Kingdom of the Fairest Chicks, and also get to visit Elmo, your flying pet cow .... or will you stay in plain reality? Hit or Miss...Hit or..dammit it was a miss. 

Then let me guess, everyone who missed their shot at lding thought of the nice things they could've done if they did make it.... I started to go off topic... Anyways, what I want to say is for people to find their own way to becoming lucid. It's truly the best way. Doing so, I been through a ride of discoveries and improvements. I found my way to ld using the necessary will ,and I hope for others to do the same thing. 

P.S. Don't ask me how I WILD. Just practice WILDing, for months and years if you have to. It has a lot to do with simply the will of having one.

----------


## tommo

WILD in REM!?
Have you lost your mind?
That's called a DILD buddy.

----------


## spaceexplorer

> "Separating the boundary between dream and waking reality is to realize, there is no boundary." -Me




You do realise your signature quote makes absolutely no sense?
It's confused, and it makes a point that then contradicts itself.

Firstly how do you seperate a boundary?
Especially one you then go on to say dosn't exist?
And... it then finally says, to realise that there is no boundary, you have to do somthing that you cant do, because it isn't there.
So it's a paradox.
(I know you'd love to be Morpheus, but sorry, you're not... that was a film)


Are you just trying to say "there is no boundary between waking and dreaming?"

Because there is, It's called falling asleep, or more often than not stage 1 sleep.

Because if there is no boundary, then waking and dreaming are the same thing. Which they are not.


Also, just for future reference, there is no such word as "inassurity".

If you wonder why I and others arn't taking you or your "methods" seriously, it's stuff like this, that is in direct contradiction to the rambling, self assured arrogance of your posts.

----------


## Malac Reborn

> WILD in REM!?
> Have you lost your mind?
> That's called a DILD buddy.



Lol I'll just let the dreamviews community laugh at you from this statement. Hurry! You might have time to edit it!





> You do realise your signature quote makes absolutely no sense?
> It's confused, and it makes a point that then contradicts itself.
> 
> Firstly how do you seperate a boundary?
> Especially one you then go on to say dosn't exist?
> And... it then finally says, to realise that there is no boundary, you have to do somthing that you cant do, because it isn't there.
> So it's a paradox.
> (I know you'd love to be Morpheus, but sorry, you're not... that was a film)
> 
> ...



With your irrelevant reply, I suggest you take the forum rules seriously and post it else where such as in a form of a pm. 

Your trolling aside, my _quote_ does make sense and you are an idiot to make a long post picking it by detail, only to be completely wrong. That statement means that there is a subjective boundary placed by people that dreaming and waking life, _which Is the same_, in place. I even don't have to tell that everything is subjective and that you're in your mind just the same as with a dream, right this moment. Go read a book or something if you still like to pull "facts" out of your ass with no knowledge of the world around you. Seriously go. To _separate_ a boundary merely means to let go of it by realizing, there isn't one. 

If that little statement a 3rd grader could understand riddled you, get out. As for my tech being serious, everyone _does_ take it seriously except for the same old kids that never had it worked for them, so they have somehow assumed they have the right to judge it. It's like criticizing a movie they've never seen. I remember someone saying this is like a WILD. Hey bud, understand what a WILD actually is. Variations of WILDs mean different ways of entering a dream from waking consciousness. If you're comparing this to the traditional wild, as in just visualizing, then again, you've never done this before and just judged an unseen movie. If you hate other methods unlike the "first" WILD, what is your purpose of being at Dream views in Attaining Lucidity? Else, go contribute something and not leech.

As for my character? You don't know me at all so don't assume such things and _try_ to bash someone. You _2-3_ guys that waste your time in here criticizing are obviously still trying to attempt MY tech, why else would you be in here? Its been established that this works effectively, so there's nothing to refute on that. We've established the requirements of visualization and the steps involved, so why ask questions that many people answered? I mean, you guys don't possibly have the free time and life to go on internet forums to _try_ to diss someone lol? Right?

----------


## spaceexplorer

> Lol I'll just let the dreamviews community laugh at you from this statement. Hurry! You might have time to edit it!
> 
> With your irrelevant reply, I suggest you take the forum rules seriously and post it else where such as in a form of a pm. 
> 
> Your trolling aside, my _quote_ does make sense and you are an idiot to make a long post picking it by detail, only to be completely wrong. That statement means that there is a subjective boundary placed by people that dreaming and waking life, _which Is the same_, in place. I even don't have to tell that everything is subjective and that you're in your mind just the same as with a dream, right this moment. Go read a book or something if you still like to pull "facts" out of your ass with no knowledge of the world around you. Seriously go. To _separate_ a boundary merely means to let go of it by realizing, there isn't one. 
> 
> If that little statement a 3rd grader could understand riddled you, get out. As for my tech being serious, everyone _does_ take it seriously except for the same old kids that never had it worked for them, so they have somehow assumed they have the right to judge it. It's like criticizing a movie they've never seen. I remember someone saying this is like a WILD. Hey bud, understand what a WILD actually is. Variations of WILDs mean different ways of entering a dream from waking consciousness. If you're comparing this to the traditional wild, as in just visualizing, then again, you've never done this before and just judged an unseen movie. If you hate other methods unlike the "first" WILD, what is your purpose of being at Dream views in Attaining Lucidity? Else, go contribute something and not leech.
> 
> As for my character? You don't know me at all so don't assume such things and _try_ to bash someone. You _2-3_ guys that waste your time in here criticizing are obviously still trying to attempt MY tech, why else would you be in here? Its been established that this works effectively, so there's nothing to refute on that. We've established the requirements of visualization and the steps involved, so why ask questions that many people answered? I mean, you guys don't possibly have the free time and life to go on internet forums to _try_ to diss someone lol? Right?



I'm bored of being patronised by a schoolkid.
I'm over twice your age and have been lucid dreaming since before you were born. 

Why do I come to DreamViews?
Because i was hoping to discuss lucid dreaming with like minded intelligent adults who have them. Not get caught up in some "badge of honour" technique developing childishness.
It's not all about methods.

Actually, maybe im not alone in thinking that it would be really nice to have an over 20s area to the forum?

And basically I do have the time to be critical of things which i think are misleading and incorrect. Lucid Dreaming has enough nonsense attached to it as a subject without people adding more.

I find your methods to be misleading and your tone to be arrogant and condecending. There are some people here who post methods with titles like "my own personal method for lucid dreaming" I don't criticise them because they are being humble and sharing. You on the other hand clearly want to be seen as some kind of lucid dreaming expert, and word your methods like they are gods gift to lucid dreaming. 
You're just another person like the rest of us. Get over your ego.

I'm not getting into this discussion any further i've said what i want to say, and i don't like to argue with people who are still at school.

By the way, someone who is critical of you is not a troll, a troll is someone who goes onto a forum to cause problems. I generally try to be helpful, in fact i think it is being helpful to point out that your methods and your attitude are misleading and flawed.

And you're wrong by the way, you cant perform a WILD from REM.
The very first letter of the acronym WILD says it all "WAKE"
And I think everyone knows that REM doesn't occur whilst you are awake.
So how can you have a Wake initiated lucid dream, from within a dream?

Anyway, im bored of making your thread look important. 
I've said all i need to say, anyone with intelligence can read through the method and the thread and come to thier own conclusion. Anything more would just be arguing. I've made my point, it's up to people to make thier own choices as to who sounds more convincing.


your statement:




> That statement means that there is a subjective boundary placed by people that dreaming and waking life, which Is the same, in place.



Again this makes no sense, because the english used is so badly constructed.
Did you mean to write "which are the same"?
and did you need to put "in place." at the end of a sentence that had already used the word "placed"?
And no, the boundary between wakefulness and dreaming is not subjective. It is an objective provable fact.

----------


## DreamChaser

Now now children.

You are both acting childish.

and an adult would not rise to the bait given, and not correct grammar either. That seems a little childish in itself.

If you two don't stop....I'll turn this car right around.

----------


## Malac Reborn

@spaceexplorer Ha, the guy goes straight to insulting my character again! That's it? Don't think just because you have nice grammar that it makes you intelligent. Why would I want to check my spelling and grammar on here? I don't even take you as a serious person, but laugh at how you continue to make yourself look like an idiot and now at your deluded idea of how "special" you think you are just because of your _mature_ age of 50+. So prestigious...oh how I wish I was your age. If you really are twice my age, then that should make you 38. So why do you persist on sounding like a child that wants to get back at me, or whatever personal reason you have against me.

As for REM, I speak of the period in which it's available throughout the stages of sleep to go directly in. Just like how people confuse sleep paralysis with REM atonia. Again, even a 3rd grader would get it.

Anyways, I had my little fun playing with you.

P.S. You might have been lding before I was born but I assure you that I've had many times over the amount you will get in a life time.

----------


## spaceexplorer

> @spaceexplorer Ha, the guy goes straight to insulting my character again! That's it? Don't think just because you have nice grammar that it makes you intelligent. Why would I want to check my spelling and grammar on here? I don't even take you as a serious person, but laugh at how you continue to make yourself look like an idiot and now at your deluded idea of how "special" you think you are just because of your _mature_ age of 50+. So prestigious...oh how I wish I was your age. If you really are twice my age, then that should make you 38. So why do you persist on sounding like a child that wants to get back at me, or whatever personal reason you have against me.
> 
> As for REM, I speak of the period in which it's available throughout the stages of sleep to go directly in. Just like how people confuse sleep paralysis with REM atonia. Again, even a 3rd grader would get it.
> 
> Anyways, I had my little fun playing you.
> 
> P.S. You might have been lding before I was born but I assure you that I've had many times over the amount you will get in a life time.



Like i said before. I'll let other people read what's been written and decide for themselves. I'm off to more interesting and valueable sections of the forum.

----------


## thedogsmeow

I tried this technique, but found that I was too tired to try grabbing anything  :Sad:

----------


## DreamQueen

> use your *actual* hands to grab and touch the nearest got damn thing closest to you. This image won't last long so you'll have to be fast about. I say actual hands because for when you use your actual hands, it'll for that moment be your dream hands.



I tried this technique too but unfortunately my boyfriend was lying next to me at the time and I accidently grabbed his dick. And it wasn't with my dream hands either  :tonguewiggle:

----------


## tommo

> If that little statement a 3rd grader could understand riddled you, get out. As for my tech being serious, everyone _does_ take it seriously except for the same old kids that never had it worked for them, so they have somehow assumed they have the right to judge it. It's like criticizing a movie they've never seen. I remember someone saying this is like a WILD. Hey bud, understand what a WILD actually is. Variations of WILDs mean different ways of entering a dream from waking consciousness. If you're comparing this to the traditional wild, as in just visualizing, then again, you've never done this before and just judged an unseen movie. If you hate other methods unlike the "first" WILD, what is your purpose of being at Dream views in Attaining Lucidity? Else, go contribute something and not leech.



Ok first, I never took it seriously even before I tried it.  If you notice, by reading my previous posts in this thread.  I was skeptical before I experimented.  I didn't rule out the possibility, however, that this may be better than just simply imagining yourself 'jumping in to the dream'.  Which is common practice around here.
I tried it multiple times.
As for not criticising a movie I haven't seen.  I guess you're referring to the fact that we haven't completed it fully.
In the words of House, "I don't have to go to Detroit to know that it smells".

----------


## Golden Son

I tried this at least 4 times last night on different wake back to beds(some seconds within waking, some minuets, some with bathroom break...etc). The good thing about this you can try it multiple times if you fail. 

Please note I have spent the last 6 months visualizing once relaxed at least an hour a day. So it was easy for me to fill the black space between my eye and eyelids with whatever random scenes/images came to mind, and then increase their detail/depth

*I however, appear to be the only person who when reaching out to grab the dream world object, end up actually using my physical body! It was quite frustrating seeing the object in such detail, only to reach out with my real hands and wake me up completely, do the nose plug RC, and then try it again only to be woken up fully again.*

I honestly believe I would have been better off not trying to grab(and therefore waking myself up) and just slipping into the dream when I saw such detail.

But like I said the good thing is you can try this many different times separately in different wake back to beds. Because of this I awoke on one of the final times and was about to start to try to grab technique when I noticed a strange wisp of ether near my ceiling fan above me. It also had a long string hanging from the light part of it so I tried to pull it to turn the light on because I was startled, but it wouldn't budge, and I failed to realize that this was indeed a false awakening(I had been solely focused on doing the grab technique and THEN reality checking).

So regardless of whether or not it worked for me, it only took one night to try it many times, and it resulted in a false awakening because I was in the habit of waking multiple times to try the technique. I'm just that closer to finding what works best for me, and won't have a FA without RC'ing next time.

If you have any clue malec let me know.

----------


## Lusense

Lol @ the 10 second induction. 

Induction usually takes a long time unless you do WBTB and get one of those nights when you wake up I guess I'd call it "heavy on the brain" lol. Part of your brain feels like really activated and when you go back to bed the dream starts almost right away. Those are the best but I noticed they are random alot.

----------


## Malac Reborn

> Lol @ the 10 second induction. 
> 
> Induction usually takes a long time unless you do WBTB and get one of those nights when you wake up I guess I'd call it "heavy on the brain" lol. Part of your brain feels like really activated and when you go back to bed the dream starts almost right away. Those are the best but I noticed they are random alot.



Lol @ you for thinking all inductions take so long. I suppose if someone never seen the moon, that person wouldn't know anything about it.





> I tried this at least 4 times last night on different wake back to beds(some seconds within waking, some minuets, some with bathroom break...etc). The good thing about this you can try it multiple times if you fail. 
> 
> Please note I have spent the last 6 months visualizing once relaxed at least an hour a day. So it was easy for me to fill the black space between my eye and eyelids with whatever random scenes/images came to mind, and then increase their detail/depth
> 
> *I however, appear to be the only person who when reaching out to grab the dream world object, end up actually using my physical body! It was quite frustrating seeing the object in such detail, only to reach out with my real hands and wake me up completely, do the nose plug RC, and then try it again only to be woken up fully again.*
> 
> I honestly believe I would have been better off not trying to grab(and therefore waking myself up) and just slipping into the dream when I saw such detail.
> 
> But like I said the good thing is you can try this many different times separately in different wake back to beds. Because of this I awoke on one of the final times and was about to start to try to grab technique when I noticed a strange wisp of ether near my ceiling fan above me. It also had a long string hanging from the light part of it so I tried to pull it to turn the light on because I was startled, but it wouldn't budge, and I failed to realize that this was indeed a false awakening(I had been solely focused on doing the grab technique and THEN reality checking).
> ...



I see you realize that I haven't claimed this to be the _easiest_ method. I would say to try it again until you get it, then you will know what to do next time. It's not like fixing an engine, everyone's mind is different from mine  :smiley:  The fact that you have good visualization means this should come easier to you than others. 

For other people with questions, I'm sorry that Iif I don't answer them all. As for future projects, I'm working on my visualization WILD, which has given me SP multiple times.....arg. So anyways, I might not post anymore methods down unless it's something that could be somewhat mostly objective like FILD, as in physical movement. Something anyone can do. MFG's con is that people without visualization skills can't use it for squat.  :smiley:

----------


## Golden Son

> Lol @ you for thinking all inductions take so long. I suppose if someone never seen the moon, that person wouldn't know anything about it.
> 
> I see you realize that I haven't claimed this to be the _easiest_ method. I would say to try it again until you get it, then you will know what to do next time. It's not like fixing an engine, everyone's mind is different from mine  The fact that you have good visualization means this should come easier to you than others.



Well honestly after grabbing the air 4+ times in a row and mentally/physically throwing myself from sleep to awake in seconds, I don't think I'll be trying this any more, just too tiresome. I'm going to attempt FILD tonight, it's a lot more subtle - physical sensation wise  ::D: . And the visualization was not the problem, that was there 100%, its just that my physical body continued to override(even seconds from waking up an attempting, which only takes seconds to fall back asleep). I suppose when I get more comfortable with the differences between my dream body and physical body I will try this again. 





> For other people with questions, I'm sorry that Iif I don't answer them all. As for future projects, I'm working on my visualization WILD, which has given me SP multiple times.....arg. So anyways, I might not post anymore methods down unless it's something that could be somewhat mostly objective like FILD, as in physical movement. Something anyone can do. MFG's con is that people without visualization skills can't use it for squat.



Like I said visualization is my specialty, and I for one am completely fine with SP, I welcome it. I learned to work with it rather then against it early, and am very comfortable these days with the natural sensations we expierence but so often fight against(they're NATURAL guys!!). If you don't feel like releasing it to the public, please send me the V-WILD technique your working on through PM. Sleep paralysis is one of my gateways into Dream Time.

----------


## Malac Reborn

@Golden Son : When you grab it, is it to the point of high vividness that makes you think of how real it looks? Also about my "V-Wild". I'm not holding it or anything, I just feel like people should create their own version of WILD since its them operating their own mind. When I'm finish with mine, then sure I'll tell you if you want, not top secret or anything  :smiley:  Beware of the SP that comes after it...

----------


## DreamChaser

> @Golden Son : When you grab it, is it to the point of high vividness that makes you think of how real it looks? Also about my "V-Wild". I'm not holding it or anything, I just feel like people should create their own version of WILD since its them operating their own mind. When I'm finish with mine, then sure I'll tell you if you want, not top secret or anything  Beware of the SP that comes after it...



malac, you just said we should create our own Wild since we are operating our own minds,
then you say "Beware the SP that comes after it" of your V-Wild (as if what happens to you will happen exactly the same to all of us.)

It sounds contradictory, or did I miss something?

----------


## tommo

Well SP is fairly universal.

----------


## Golden Son

::D: 



> @Golden Son : When you grab it, is it to the point of high vividness that makes you think of how real it looks?



Yes, like I said my visualization is king, I've taken objects the size of 20 story buildings and broken them down piece by piece in full detail in my mind and traced them back all the way to their original thought where they're an intangible object existing in someones mind. It was full vividness, its just that my physical body continued to override and grab with my real hands waking me up, and nose plug rc proved I wasn't dreaming. That's the only problem, if you fail Grab, it takes its toll, but if you fail FILD you are still relaxed and can try again way more easily. Had my first real lucid last night so will stick to FILD's subtle movement backed by trusty traditional relaxation WILD.

And why do you dislike SP so much? Just train yourself to welcome it dude, like I said it's a natural occurrence. Last night I heard the weirdest shit, felt my bed tilt all the way to its side, and felt my body fall hundreds of feet in 3 separate locations one after another and I was completely calm, I welcomed it. After 5 seconds of strange feeling I was lucid, no biggie! SP is your friend!

----------


## Malac Reborn

Lol SP is laughable and I enjoy it somewhat, but after so many times... oh so many times..it can be a little annoying. As for people who don't like sp because of the old hag or whatever they call it,  its all in the head and negative thoughts produce a negative situation. ...Think I just solved the sp annoying prob right now.. People think of scary stuff and it sometimes happen during SP but I instead think of how annoying it is not to move, thus expecting it to happen...  ::banana::  Think I'll do it again in a couple minutes after lunch and see what happens.

----------


## DreamChaser

> @Golden Son : When you grab it, is it to the point of high vividness that makes you think of how real it looks? Also about my "V-Wild". I'm not holding it or anything, I just feel like people should create their own version of WILD since its them operating their own mind. When I'm finish with mine, then sure I'll tell you if you want, not top secret or anything  Beware of the SP that comes after it...







> Well SP is fairly universal.



So SP coming after it is common then?

----------


## Paradox-db3

> There really isn't anything new here.
> And calling it a 10 second induction so emphatically and to be frank, arrogantly, is meaningless.
> If you actually read the "Technique"
> the very first step requires you to sleep for quite a few hours... which in itself immediately wipes out the 10 second claim. If you ignore that side of things, then when is this magical 10 second timer starting? 
> Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?



I'm new to this thread, and new to the forums in general.  But as I was skimming through this thread, I noticed the general mood change.  Read the first page and see all the positive posts contributing.  Then skip to the second last page and start seeing insults and, what I see as jealousy.  

Okay, spaceexplorer, I'm picking on you because your posts sounds like something a 15 year old would say with a 5 year old brain.  So, let's get technical, shall we!  

The method cannot be deemed a 10 second method because it requires "quite a few hours" which "itself immediately wipes out the 10 second claim".  Right?  But wait, even you are wrong!  Because the method actually requires you to be born first, and then reach an age in which you can read the method, and then reach a mental level of competence in order to actually carry out the method, and THEN several hours of sleep!  So, maybe we should actually call this the life-long method!  But doesn't a WBTB WILD require several hours of sleep also?  Would you deem that a long and drawn-out process?  Probably not!  

Next childish comment.

"Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?"

Well, I for one (and being a noob, you should be ashamed that I noticed this and not you) noticed the use of reaching out with your real hands to be new.  I haven't seen this before.  I've read more about a WILD where you DON'T try to move, and it can take up to 30 minutes to fully enter the dream.  

So, why does it bother you that someone has come up with a method you didn't think up?  Why?  You should be thankful!  I haven't actually tried this method, but I will.  And as long as I keep a positive attitude, it'll probably work for me.  As for you, it may require an attitude adjustment first.  Let go of the jealousy and put your big girl panties on.  Just give the guy and his method the time of day at least.  And if it still doesn't work for you, then that's all...it didn't work for you.  Do you bash LaBerge for developing techniques that don't work for you?  Suck it up, man!

As for malac...good job.  I like seeing fresh ideas.  Even the slightest alteration can be a whole new spin off something old and worn.

----------


## spaceexplorer

> I'm new to this thread, and new to the forums in general.  But as I was skimming through this thread, I noticed the general mood change.  Read the first page and see all the positive posts contributing.  Then skip to the second last page and start seeing insults and, what I see as jealousy.  
> 
> Okay, spaceexplorer, I'm picking on you because your posts sounds like something a 15 year old would say with a 5 year old brain.  So, let's get technical, shall we!  
> 
> The method cannot be deemed a 10 second method because it requires "quite a few hours" which "itself immediately wipes out the 10 second claim".  Right?  But wait, even you are wrong!  Because the method actually requires you to be born first, and then reach an age in which you can read the method, and then reach a mental level of competence in order to actually carry out the method, and THEN several hours of sleep!  So, maybe we should actually call this the life-long method!  But doesn't a WBTB WILD require several hours of sleep also?  Would you deem that a long and drawn-out process?  Probably not!  
> 
> Next childish comment.
> 
> "Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?"
> ...



Disagree completely.
I'm not jealous at all, because I have no urge whatsoever to write methods to gain some kind of "Rezpectz" in an internet forum. Also if i did I wouldn't write it as some kind of arrogant rant with a challenge for everyone to do better (which implys that Malak thinks his is the best method... which is arrogant and is disrespectful for all the other techniques developed - especially considering some were designed by people like Stephen LaBerge PHD who has done full scientific research on such matters. )

I have the world of respect for people who have dedicated careers and research time to developing _real_ proven methods, and write them in clear no-contradictory and humble ways. I also have big respect for people who develop home-grown techniques and share them with a humble, open attitude, who are not claiming to be gods-gift to lucid dreaming. There are many many good techniques in this forum, non of them mine, which i respect fully. Do you see me being critical of those in the forums releated to them? no.


Your argument about the length of the technique is, i'm afraid to say, nonsense. It is taking a point, and then streching it to beyond it's reasonable level. In Malacs own words:





> The technique:
> 
> 1. Sleep for at least 4-6 hours, so that you're at REM.



Call me old fashioned but if the very first line of instruction, under the title "Technique" is to tell you to sleep 4 to 6 hours, that is where the technique starts, and is thus, as described by Malac himself, a technique that requires  4-6 hours of sleep to be successful. A ten second technique, would require no more than 10 seconds to use, and also implys that you should be able to start the technique whenever you wish (with no prerequirements of sleep).

Also, just one point...
The idea in this technique is not to use your real hands, it is to think as if you are going to use your real hands, at which point if you are dreaming youre dream hands would move instead. Because if not then how on earth could you grab hold of a dream object with a physical hand. You simply cannot do this. In fact this is one of my main criticisms for Malac and this "technique" in particular. It is worded badly, and causes confusion. He should never have mentioned moving real hands, because real hands implys physical hands, which clearly makes no sense. He should have said 

"Concentrate as if you are going to move your real hands, if the dream has formed fully, then your dream hands will be the ones that move, and thus grab the dream object. If the dream is not stable, then you will move your real hands, which will of course  lead to you waking from the dream"

That in itself is the key to this so called "technique", and is Ok in theory. It is however not new, and very similar versions of the same basic principle have been published in lucid dreaming literature since the early 1980s.

Why do I bother being critical?
Because Lucid Dreaming is a subject that has been dear to my heart since childhood (i am now in my mid 30s), I hate to see misinformation on the subject. I also cant stand arse kissing for what is clearly a rehashed version of existing techniques, which is written in poor unclear English, and full of arrogance.

I also think Malac is on a huge self promotion campaign, mentioning his technique in any other threads he possibly can, and even including links to this thread in his own signature  (the fact that he even has to include his name in the techniques name says it all, should we be calling MILD the SLBMILD (SLB for Stephen LaBerge) now too? no, because it's not about the ego of the creator, it's about the technique)

All of which I think is misleading, ego driven, and gives this forum and lucid dreaming a bad name. 

I would challenge Malac to remove the links from his signature, and stop constantly posting links in other threads. And to let the technique stand its own ground. See how many people keep coming to post without the advertising!

The method itself is an ok mediocre rehash of other much older and published techniques, which could work for some in some cases, but certainly isnt a 10 second lucid dream induction.

Jealous has no part to play. I could rattle up several techniques in the same way Malac has, if i so wished to come across as a "Dream Guru". I could advertise them in my own signature, and post links in endless threads.
I don't see why Malac should get praise for rewording (badly) ideas which anyone with the most basic understanding of lucid dreaming would probably have thought of themselves.

*In a nutshell his so called technique is this basic piece of common sense:*

When performing a WILD, and the Visual element of the dream starts to form, try to engage your dream body in the dream by attempting to grab some of the dream scenery and pull yourself into it (which will feel like you are using your real hands, but of course cannot be because your awareness has moved to your dreambody)

Of course any million of variations on this idea could be thought up in a few second... try running into the dream scenery. Try spinning into the scenery. Jump into the scene etc. etc. etc.

*This is not Malacs invention, it has been thought of by millions of lucid dreamers worldwide, over and over, when they simply think to themselves "this Hypnogogic imagery is getting clear, maybe the dream is stable enough to move now, lets try and move..."*

It's all been done before, can be written in one paragraph. And is not original nor is it anything extraordinary. It is common sense, written in poor english and with a whole lot of Malacs Ego thrown in for good measure.

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## Paradox-db3

Sorry, I didn't read all you post.  Instead, I smiled and thought, 'I made someone type a lot...WOW, I've got _power_!'

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## spaceexplorer

> Sorry, I didn't read all you post.  Instead, I smiled and thought, 'I made someone type a lot...WOW, I've got _power_!'



The only power you have my friend, is to come across foolish.
If you cannot take the 20 seconds to read my post in answer to your points, then i feel you cannot take your points (or this method) very seriously, or simply fear that you were wrong and that you cannot form an argument that stands up to a bit of critical thought and logic. If you want to call ignorance a power, that's your choice.

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## 16Candles

> Sorry, I didn't read all you post.  Instead, I smiled and thought, 'I made someone type a lot...WOW, I've got _power_!'



its this kind of immaturety that made me reluctant to joining this site.  but i thought maybe it will be different here.  well, paradox you just proved to me that there are jerks on every board.

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## DreamChaser

spaceexplorer has some very good points.

I think Arby, here at DV did a fantastic tutorial like this a while ago, I should look it up.
Think it was a VILD.

There seems to be a large component of people seeking credit and using these posts as a Ego Competition.
It should be to share your experiences to help others or to ask for help if needed, for eg.

These links I never saw, but could explain the popularity of this thread.
I do like the technique, but think it was a bit rushed in its composing.
The challenge to do better and such leads me also to think it is set as a competition, and that is where real crap starts being posted and rushed and truths stretched.

Maybe why we had these ...ILDs come through so fast with rediculous titles.

I am usually fairly balanced in my responses, but I more agree with spaceexplorer so far on this one. (Although the old base technique still holds true). 
The picking up on the timeframe was on the border of petty though.
I have on numerous occasions disagreed with him, as I love logical debating, but not childish banter.

BTW by debating this and responding, we are supporting this post and making it bigger - a paradox in itself (no pun intended).

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## spaceexplorer

DreamChaser, you're probably right about the timeframe being a little pedantic of me. 
Just the whole concept of people trying to take credit for basic obvious principle frustrates me.


Also, I forgot to mention, I have a fairly extensive collection of Lucid Dreaming and Astral Travel books (i've been collecting them for over 15 years now) So I can happily findreferences to published texts that already use this principle. Of course the writers of these books were not looking to score brownie points in a forum as "technique creators".
Maybe It'd be anal of me to do so, but if it puts the whole thing to rest, it may be worth it.

One that i remember reasonably clearly was published as an Astral Travel technique, in an early 1960s publication. The principle was to visualise a rope above your bed,when the rope visualisation because vivid, you would attempt to pull yourself up by it. Not identical, but close enough to prove that the basic idea has been around a long time. The rope technique by the way is quite effective. The author suggest actualy hanging a ropefrom the ceiling and getting used to the feel of it in real life, so that when in right state of mind to perform a WILD, the physical feeling is easier for you to recall (and for your brain to recreate.)
As a good deal of early lucid dreaming literature borrowed heavily from Astral Travel techniques (as its basically the same thing interpreted differently) it's no suprise that this principle has been around along time.

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## Malac Reborn

> The only power you have my friend, is to come across foolish.
> If you cannot take the 20 seconds to read my post in answer to your points, then i feel you cannot take your points (or this method) very seriously, or simply fear that you were wrong and that you cannot form an argument that stands up to a bit of critical thought and logic. If you want to call ignorance a power, that's your choice.



You're back again to make a fool of yourself huh? I didn't read your whole meaningless post too, as it was full of assumptions and nagging. Even so, I did catch some of it. 

First, when I say to move your whole hand*, I really mean "move" your actual hand. And yes, this idea is original.* Bold letters can make my statements louder too  :smiley:  By claiming that you don't move your actual hand, I can see how you could easily mistaken this for an _average_ WILD. Of course, you failed to do this and judged anyways. Another thing I noticed is that your knowledge of lucidity stops short around acronyms. You seem to think there is an _it_ WILD. Some _one_ WILD that starts it all. As you said, millions of LDer's WILD _like this technique posted here_.

Let me get this in your head, there are two ways of approaching a dream to gain lucidity. There are WILDs and there are DILDs, the only two ways of approaching LDs. There is NO "*it*" WILD. There are many methods of WILDing and many methods of inducing a DILD. Stop saying "WILD WILD WILD"! All methods are either WILDs or DILDs. If there was just one way of inducing lucidity then the whole purpose of this forum wouldn't exist! Now, since there isn't just one way to lucid dream, there are many methods to induce lucidity through use of WILDing or a DILD. 

Here's another one - You talk about visualization being used...um hey I got a secret so listen closely. Did you know that most methods require some form of stimulation of the senses? Yes, even visualization! Just because visualization is used, doesn't mean to categorize this as the same with your imaginary _one_ WILD. Again, this tech is original so stop comparing it to others. Find one other method on the internet that is like mine. Just one.

As for your praisal of the BIG guys out there, lol? This have to do with what again? Sorry if I don't have a fancy laboratory to cook up "important" experiments and dedicate my life to writing 500 page books about lucidity, though I try.... It's like your logic is such in a way that I have to have a PH D or be a _humble_ chap to share an effective technique. In fact, your arguments are solely on my personality, which you again, have no idea about. And when the _hell_ did I say this is a godly technique and all shall bow? When is helping, a bad thing? Sorry if the way I present things are not in your category of respect, most you misinterpreted as arrogqnt ranting. All I see is _you_ ranting about MY technique that I _didn't_ have to share. 

A couple other things. My *challenge* statement was meant to encourage others to make methods for lucidity, something a third grader would obvious get. As for my signature, why can I not post a link to my other techs that are capable of helping others? *Many* others do. Oh yea, I forget..if _I_ do it its advertising. Gosh me and my forgetfulness! If _I_ mention visualization, its like everything else. Don't even have to understand the tech right, just see the word visualization and you know everything! If _I_ make a brilliant tech, then spaceexplorer gets jeolous and cries over my E-personality. ::embarrassed::  He also makes irrelvelant posts about people he respect. He also discredits him self by proving to be child, making bullshit claims that are conveniently absolutely wrong, which does make me laugh. Seriously though, what are the mods doing about this guy? He's just annoying and spreads more misinformation with every post. I know you've said so many stupid stuff and you can only go on because if you backed out, you would look worser but come on..... PM me dude, don't spam.


Only thing you got correct about me was the typos and grammar I didn't seem to care about.

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## Malac Reborn

> spaceexplorer has some very good points.
> 
> I think Arby, here at DV did a fantastic tutorial like this a while ago, I should look it up.
> Think it was a VILD.
> 
> There seems to be a large component of people seeking credit and using these posts as a Ego Competition.
> It should be to share your experiences to help others or to ask for help if needed, for eg.
> 
> These links I never saw, but could explain the popularity of this thread.
> ...



Base technique? May I explain what a wild and dild is to you too? My tech and every other method in the world is either a WILD or DILD. Everyone knows this. You speak as if no one else knows. Though all are WILDs, there are different approaches and thus, differrent methods. Is this really profoundly hard for you to understand? Also, I and others can't credit our methods because S. Labarge made an acronym for the two different approaches and only his ways, which is not one, but multiple ways of inducing lucidity the right way? Some of the methods and the ones he learned from others use visualization and etc so this misunderstanding of Laberges acronyms should wither quick. There isn't a _base_ technique but there are _base_ senses we use to help. Visualizations, smell, hearing, and use of tactile sensations. 

Differ your acronyms from _how_ to ld, to classification of inducing an ld. The _how_ is what we share here. Else, lets all just call our methods WILD so noone can know the difference between how we exactly acheive LDs. Yea, along with that, lets just not take credit for what we're sharing, smart idea.

If your understanding of things are slow like spaceexplorer, then let me sum it in a quick metaphor. 

*There are different ways of entering a pool. There is jumping, backflipping, slipping into, and many other ways, but every way puts you in the pool.*

And did you just compared this to a VILD...oh boy... Anyways, here is a quote from Arby, the creator of the fantastic Vild tutorial, appreciating my method too-> 

_"Aha, Malac. You seem to have done well this time.

I'll be honest... someone told me you had another tech and I got my skeptic pad out and looked to see what it was all about. I was very happy to find a quite logical and helpful v-wild tech/supplement. I give this the arby official stamp of approval... whatever that means anymore around here XD

Also, no (well almost no) 100&#37;/superiority dressings so I give you another for that. Welcome to the trustable technique community, malac. =)

I leaned back, stepped through this and got a vivid rainforest (grabbed a big fern leaf) and it worked pretty well but I didn't like the pause after you grab the leaf and look around. It is a chance for instability when the visualization might not have fully stableized/matured yet. Thus I present a twist I played with. Instead I grabbed an interactable object and used it. In my case, I grabbed a stick off the ground and started to hit the things closest to me with it. Kept me occupied longer and led up a little plot (whacked an animal etc... not gonna get into all that XD)."_

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## DreamChaser

> Base technique? May I explain what a wild and dild is to you too? My tech and every other method in the world is either a WILD or DILD. Everyone knows this. You speak as if no one else knows. Though all are WILDs, there are different approaches and thus, differrent methods. Is this really profoundly hard for you to understand? Also, I and others can't credit our methods because S. Labarge made an acronym for the two different approaches and only his ways, which is not one, but multiple ways of inducing lucidity the right way? Some of the methods and the ones he learned from others use visualization and etc so this misunderstanding of Laberges acronyms should wither quick. There isn't a _base_ technique but there are _base_ senses we use to help. Visualizations, smell, hearing, and use of tactile sensations. 
> 
> Differ your acronyms from _how_ to ld, to classification of inducing an ld. The _how_ is what we share here. Else, lets all just call our methods WILD so noone can know the difference between how we exactly acheive LDs. Yea, along with that, lets just not take credit for what we're sharing, smart idea.
> 
> If your understanding of things are slow like spaceexplorer, then let me sum it in a quick metaphor. 
> 
> *There are different ways of entering a pool. There is jumping, backflipping, slipping into, and many other ways, but every way puts you in the pool.*
> 
> And did you just compared this to a VILD...oh boy... Anyways, here is a quote from Arby, the creator of the fantastic Vild tutorial, appreciating my method too-> 
> ...



Firstly you shouldnt be so obtuse and arrogant. Trying to teach us basics like a pompous school teacher.

The maiking of ILDs is now subject and lockable. So your point is against even the Site Mods. "Else, lets all just call our methods WILD so noone can know the difference between how we exactly acheive LDs". This is whats happened and we have things like CGILD (chewinggumILD).

Next, you just said there is no base tech, but just before said there are only Wilds and Dilds. Contradiction? Arent these base techniques?

And the Arby seal of approval. He was just proud someone expanded on his tut. 

As far as the ego complex, you do have something in common it seems now.

Keep going. I will enjoy your responses to any possible questioning.

It seems people are striking a nerve or getting hot here.

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## tommo

Heh, it's funny, spaceexplorer types a, fairly long, yes, but coherent post.  Then you Malac, diss him for posting such a long response, admit you didn't read it all, then attempt to refute his statments with a double post, both adding up to more than his post and using terrible grammar.  Then you expect us to read that!?

Ok let me make my point clear that no one (even the, in malac's mind, god-like Arby who's decision is final) seems to understand right now.
I could enter a LD from WILD'ing.  Just a normal WILD.
My entering technique would be the classic, 'lying there and waiting for the dream to start.'
Or I could use the, also classic, 'rolling out of bed'.
These two obviously differ.  One 'forces' entry into the dream, one just waits for the dream to start.
Now what is the difference, Malac, between your hand grab technique and rolling out of bed?
So what if "using your 'real' hand is unique" as you say.
Should I make a new technique telling people to stomp on the nearest bit of ground?
I'll call it the TSILD.

Ok this, I think, is not a petty insult as spaceexplorer thinks now.
It is a blatant attempt to get people to look at the thread, esp. noobs.

What makes this a 10 second induction?
Where do you define this induction as starting from?
Just answer this already, me and spaceexplorer asked you at least 3 times on the previous page.  Oh wait.... you don't read 'long' posts huh?  Guess you don't read 'long books' either, which would explain why you can't tell the similarities between this technique and already existing ones.

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## allensig3654

_One that i remember reasonably clearly was published as an Astral Travel technique, in an early 1960s publication. The principle was to visualise a rope above your bed,when the rope visualisation because vivid, you would attempt to pull yourself up by it. Not identical, but close enough to prove that the basic idea has been around a long time. The rope technique by the way is quite effective. The author suggest actualy hanging a ropefrom the ceiling and getting used to the feel of it in real life, so that when in right state of mind to perform a WILD, the physical feeling is easier for you to recall (and for your brain to recreate.)
As a good deal of early lucid dreaming literature borrowed heavily from Astral Travel techniques (as its basically the same thing interpreted differently) it's no suprise that this principle has been around along time.
_


Actually I read that from "Out Of Body Experiences". How to have them and what to expect by Robert Peterson.

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## Golden Son

> _One that i remember reasonably clearly was published as an Astral Travel technique, in an early 1960s publication. The principle was to visualise a rope above your bed,when the rope visualisation because vivid, you would attempt to pull yourself up by it. Not identical, but close enough to prove that the basic idea has been around a long time. The rope technique by the way is quite effective. The author suggest actualy hanging a ropefrom the ceiling and getting used to the feel of it in real life, so that when in right state of mind to perform a WILD, the physical feeling is easier for you to recall (and for your brain to recreate.)
> As a good deal of early lucid dreaming literature borrowed heavily from Astral Travel techniques (as its basically the same thing interpreted differently) it's no suprise that this principle has been around along time.
> _
> 
> 
> Actually I read that from "Out Of Body Experiences". How to have them and what to expect by Robert Peterson.



And I from Robert Bruce - Astral Dynamics. It boils down to everything originating from the same mind - these techniques existed long before the internet, dating back to the origin of man/ancient civilizations. These are natural abilities and these techniques have been around forever, man has been around long enough to think most things. The rope exit technique works, and before man had the rope, they had the single string/invisible intangible rope that didn't exist yet(see the mime artist  ::D: ), the technique still worked.

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## Malac Reborn

> Firstly you shouldnt be so obtuse and arrogant. Trying to teach us basics like a pompous school teacher.
> 
> The maiking of ILDs is now subject and lockable. So your point is against even the Site Mods. "Else, lets all just call our methods WILD so noone can know the difference between how we exactly acheive LDs". This is whats happened and we have things like CGILD (chewinggumILD).
> 
> Next, you just said there is no base tech, but just before said there are only Wilds and Dilds. Contradiction? Arent these base techniques?
> 
> And the Arby seal of approval. He was just proud someone expanded on his tut. 
> 
> As far as the ego complex, you do have something in common it seems now.
> ...



Lol What? I have an ego complex because I responded to _you_ now?  I'm arrogant for informing you guys with factual information, yet you guys come in _here_ to insult and _tell_ me off, contradiction? Yes. If you don't understand the basics, then I _will_ teach them to you. Nothing to wet your pants about. Also, I didn't say WILDS and DILDs were techniques themselves idiot. 

 In the end, you guys are brainless morons making invalid points that doesn't benefit anything except your false sense of winning something. Well this proved to be funny. If you guys were trying to gain attention, then sorry but your worthless lives doesn't earn that role. Harsh. Yet, I don't even know you guys but just enough that you contribute little to nothing on here. Grow up, the three of you. Say your final words, I'm sure you children will, and then forget about this little argument that showed your lack of intelligence. My free time is over.

As for relevant subjects, I'll try to help if I can, though I've moved on to different projects.

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## tommo

Nice way to dodge answering a question.  Insult the person and run.  I'll try that next time, thanks.

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## DreamQueen



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## tommo

LMAO!
Well, with every argument on the internet you convince at least 5 people I would say.  Better than arguing off the internet, unless it's a debate or something.
EX.  My argument here will probably stop 5 noobs who come here and read it from trying this shoddy technique.  For which I am happy.

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## spaceexplorer

Perhaps someone should just start a thread called Tactile Induced WILDs.
Then everyone could share thier own variations on WILDs that focus on focusing on moving the dream body in dream onset?

I personaly have no issue with the idea of trying to use your hands (or any other tactile focus) on entering a WILD. I just don't think it deserves to be called a technique all on it's own.

Pulling yourself into a dream, rolling into it etc.
Such a thread would inspire new research and ideas, and not simply be a way for one forum member to call themselve a technique inventor.

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## Sol-R Nemesis

Sounds interesting! I'm going to try this tonight. So in the grabbing part. I visualise myself grabbing the nearest object, but I stick my hands out to grab it as if it was there in real life right next to my bed?

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## spaceexplorer

In fact,
to save confusion and develop a spirit of experimentation,
Here's a thread to do just that:

*Tactile Induced WILDs - Methods that focus on entering a lucid dream via the tactile sense.*


http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...30#post1000330

Of course Malacs personal grabbing ideas are welcome there amongst all the other tactile/phyiscal focus ideas.

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## tommo

That's a good idea.

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## Malac Reborn

> Sounds interesting! I'm going to try this tonight. So in the grabbing part. I visualise myself grabbing the nearest object, but I stick my hands out to grab it as if it was there in real life right next to my bed?



Yep  :smiley:

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