# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) >  >  The WILD variation thread

## Kraftwerk

I'm on a quest. I'd like to come up with some new variations of wilds, and find some more obscure ones. I want to know what you've had success with wilding, and what odd variants you've used, and what ideas you have in the future. Lets start experimenting and try to find something ground breaking like FILD!

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## Xibran123

The FILD technique is freaking gorgeous. I've always gotten LD's from it. And no scary hypnogogic feelings. It's great.

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## LouieO

Personally I do something I call NSSWILD, natural sleep simulation wake induced lucid dream. I basically just try to act exactly like I would were I going to sleep. For simulating being awake, I:
1. relax my entire body.
2. Visualize some object and play with it in my imagination for about five minutes.
3. count backwards from ten
4. slowly, slowly turn over onto another side or move my limbs.

Then I repeat from 2 to 4 about 3 times, and then decide I have officially 'fallen asleep,' upon which I:

1. Repeatedly count from one up to four, and start again at one, like in music in common time (I guess I could experiment with waltzes and stuff though  ::D: ) and with each number I say picture an image really fast to be like hypnogogic imagery.
2. After SP, I visualize a dream scene, and from there basically VILD.

This method is REALLY efficient and fast for me, and works better than anything else I've tried, so feel free to give it a whirl!

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## Kraftwerk

I'll give it a try and report back! Thanks  ::D:

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## LouieO

Ok, and definitely report back! I'm going to have my brother test it too.
Edit: my brother is Ortecian, if you've seen him, just wanted to clarify

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## LiveInTheDream

> Personally I do something I call NSSWILD, natural sleep simulation wake induced lucid dream. I basically just try to act exactly like I would were I going to sleep. For simulating being awake, I:
> 1. relax my entire body.
> 2. Visualize some object and play with it in my imagination for about five minutes.
> 3. count backwards from ten
> 4. slowly, slowly turn over onto another side or move my limbs.
> 
> Then I repeat from 2 to 4 about 3 times, and then decide I have officially 'fallen asleep,' upon which I:
> 
> 1. Repeatedly count from one up to four, and start again at one, like in music in common time (I guess I could experiment with waltzes and stuff though ) and with each number I say picture an image really fast to be like hypnogogic imagery.
> ...



I'm going to give this one a test run, too  ::D:

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## ReegalBeegal

Well ive recently just started WILD'ing and I have had really good success listening to my heartbeat to keep consciousness. I can hear it in my ears and feel it in my hands when they are interlaced together. It really keeps your focus very high and still allows you to relax into the SP. You can also count down or up to the beats of your heart. People with high resting heartrates  may have a difficult time hearing or feeling your own heartbeat.

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## LiveInTheDream

well, I can confirm the NSSWILD method as good...I didn't go through all the way to a dream because I was really tired when I tried it, but I got to SP and HI really fast, so when I'm not as tired I'm sure this will work for me  :smiley:

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## LouieO

Thanks, I've been curious how that would work for others! I know, it has gotten me in when I wasn't ready yet, which is always weird... I never know whether to keep going like I usually do, or just stop and skip ahead. So it works a little too well sometimes. But I like it, it's really relaxing  :smiley:

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## LiveInTheDream

> Thanks, I've been curious how that would work for others! I know, it has gotten me in when I wasn't ready yet, which is always weird... I never know whether to keep going like I usually do, or just stop and skip ahead. So it works a little too well sometimes. But I like it, it's really relaxing



Yeah, I think the hardest thing for me was the visualization stage. I never could mentally decide if the visualized object should be oriented at a 90 angle (because I was lying down) or straight up (because in the dream I'd be standing straight up). Usually my mind would just go in between and see the object at a 45 degree angle, which was a bit weird and kind of messed me up at first. Next time I'll just lay down in a different position so that I won't feel like I need to orient the object sideways.

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## LouieO

I have exactly the same problem! Usually I try to think of the object as in a blank black field, and just rotate it mentally as I see fit. Sometimes during HI I start to see myself as a random person interacting with the object, which is weird (especially when I start to go into a dream as a random blonde hippie chick peeling some random fruit)

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## LiveInTheDream

Well the good news is, I tried again last night when I wasn't so tired and when I was in a position where I could orient the object easier, and it *worked*! I finally made it to a WILD without falling asleep!  ::D: 

Cheers to LouieO for this one!

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## LouieO

Awesome, congrats!  ::D:

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## BigFan

> Personally I do something I call NSSWILD, natural sleep simulation wake induced lucid dream. I basically just try to act exactly like I would were I going to sleep. For simulating being awake, I:
> 1. relax my entire body.
> 2. Visualize some object and play with it in my imagination for about five minutes.
> 3. count backwards from ten
> 4. slowly, slowly turn over onto another side or move my limbs.
> 
> Then I repeat from 2 to 4 about 3 times, and then decide I have officially 'fallen asleep,' upon which I:
> 
> 1. Repeatedly count from one up to four, and start again at one, like in music in common time (I guess I could experiment with waltzes and stuff though ) and with each number I say picture an image really fast to be like hypnogogic imagery.
> ...



Sounds like an interesting method. Do you try this after 5-6hr of sleep, because, I don't see it working when you first go to sleep unless you have a REM rebound. Also, wouldn't step 4 wake you up even if you move slowly? I mean this sounds like a WILD with some imagination so some MILD mixed in as well.

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## LouieO

Sometimes I do it with WBTB, but not always. and there is a little bit of actual science behind the method. This is how the human body normally falls asleep, so it makes sense to speed things along by going to the next step and not doing totally artificial stay-rock-rigid method. The relaxation and slow turning relax the mind and body often (for me) down to delta or even theta wavelength levels from what I've judged, which helps speed up the process a lot. And simulating hypnogogia and a dream scene can cause both of them to come.

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## BigFan

> Sometimes I do it with WBTB, but not always. and there is a little bit of actual science behind the method. This is how the human body normally falls asleep, so it makes sense to speed things along by going to the next step and not doing totally artificial stay-rock-rigid method. The relaxation and slow turning relax the mind and body often (for me) down to delta or even theta wavelength levels from what I've judged, which helps speed up the process a lot. And simulating hypnogogia and a dream scene can cause both of them to come.



hmm, I may try this tonight. I do understand the science behind it. Do you mind telling me how you believe that you've hit delta? Just wondering is all  :smiley:

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## LouieO

Just the feelings. I've been experimenting with trance states for several years, and I can tell the differences between the states pretty well (at least I think so)

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## BigFan

> Just the feelings. I've been experimenting with trance states for several years, and I can tell the differences between the states pretty well (at least I think so)



ok  :smiley:  I didn't have a chance to test your method yet. Woke up last night about 4h into my sleep and all I remember was closing my eyes again, seeing some lights, thinking that this is the hypnagogic(sp?) imagery everyone talks about then falling back asleep  :tongue2: w th

Edit: I think you should make a new thread with this technique, get more people to try it out to see how effective it is  :smiley:

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## LouieO

Thanks, I think i will!

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## Taromon777

Not sure if this is any help, but I find that hypnogogia occurs very quickly if you just get comfortable and think about _nothing_.  Think about absolutely nothing at all, and then either wait until you get an image in your head, or imagine yourself plunging your hand into your subconcious, and brining it out again and see what you find.  Whenever I try this I always get some kind of thought or image appear.  Then just do nothing for a while and you should have a "mini dream" which lasts for a few seconds.  The only problem is, because it only works if you don't think about anything, I always end up losing conciousness when I fall asleep.  But I just thought I'd bring it up in case someone might be able to adapt it into a custom WILD technique.

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## LouieO

I have a lot of trouble with that, and haven't tried it since a very traumatic experience...  :tongue2:  involving me trying to listen to and quiet my subconscious. I managed to listen, but I couldn't quiet it. It was like being yelled at from all sides, all the time... and it was frikking SCARY, although it may sound stupid to you. So I have had no luck with that...  :tongue2:

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## Taromon777

By the way LouieO, I tried your idea of playing with object; it was an old sock to start with (it's amazing all the things you can do with a sock) but then it turned into a football.  I imagined I was throwing it around in a field with two characters, and when the ball flew past my head it turned into a hypnogogic image and I saw it really clearly!  Didn't get much further than that though.

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## beachgirl

kraftwerk, what do you do when you FILD?

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## IndigoGhost

> I'm on a quest. I'd like to come up with some new variations of wilds, and find some more obscure ones. I want to know what you've had success with wilding, and what odd variants you've used, and what ideas you have in the future. Lets start experimenting and try to find something ground breaking like FILD!




I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was, WILD'ing is my real test and SP is the cause.

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## Sesquipedalian

I have one that I haven't released to the general public yet. It is the CCILD or Complex Character Induced Lucid Dream. Basically, you come up with a character that has many 'facets' to them, like you would for writing a long story. Then, make them 'come to life' in your mind. When you go to bed or during a WBTB, strike up conversation that is interesting and can go on for a long time, while ignoring whatever sensations you experience. Eventually, you can enter an LD.

The way this works is that keeping the conversation going requires logic. The flow is also a means of tracking how you are doing. (random tangent = losing it a little) For more detail, I have a thread in research.

I've used this to break my year-long dry spell, but I still need more proof before i give it over to the noobs. (It seems a little nutty, and I would rather have a real, working technique for those starting out than a made up one that can drive people away.)

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## beachgirl

interesting re the CCILD... .is it a type of MILD?
but then i wonder, doesn't REM require a suspension of logic? 
so my mind wonders, which way to go on this... 
thanks for posting!

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## Taromon777

> I have one that I haven't released to the general public yet. It is the CCILD or Complex Character Induced Lucid Dream. Basically, you come up with a character that has many 'facets' to them, like you would for writing a long story. Then, make them 'come to life' in your mind. When you go to bed or during a WBTB, strike up conversation that is interesting and can go on for a long time, while ignoring whatever sensations you experience. Eventually, you can enter an LD.
> 
> The way this works is that keeping the conversation going requires logic. The flow is also a means of tracking how you are doing. (random tangent = losing it a little) For more detail, I have a thread in research.
> 
> I've used this to break my year-long dry spell, but I still need more proof before i give it over to the noobs. (It seems a little nutty, and I would rather have a real, working technique for those starting out than a made up one that can drive people away.)



Sounds like a good idea, I've created some characters for my novel so I could talk to them!  (In fact it was them who I was playing football with.)

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## Sesquipedalian

beachgirl: First off, I think that the CCILD is a WILD in the fact that it does not use a mantra to set off a DILD. It uses a constantly changing subject to keep the mind working. (check on the definitions if you have any doubts)
Second, REM does not require the suspension of logic, as far as I'm aware. How can you have LDs if you have absolutely no logic? How could you remember goals at all? In any case, it should keep you aware enough to make it into a dream while still conscious. THAT is an LD. (if you are aware of it)

Taromon: Thanks, I have two more threads up if you need any info. I would love to hear how it works from as many people as possible.

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## beachgirl

hey... good point about the WILD vs. MILD

re the logic: i heard the neo-cortex is "down" which explains the weird logic we get in dreams
but i am not a dream scientist
warmly,
bg~~~

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## IndigoGhost

> hey... good point about the WILD vs. MILD
> 
> re the logic: i heard the neo-cortex is "down" which explains the weird logic we get in dreams
> but i am not a dream scientist
> warmly,
> bgg~~~



Thats pretty much correct  :smiley:

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## TalkingHead

> interesting re the CCILD... .is it a type of MILD?
> but then i wonder, doesn't REM require a suspension of logic? 
> so my mind wonders, which way to go on this... 
> thanks for posting!



So have you had any luck with the complex character induced lucid dream?  It seems like a really creative idea.  I'm going to try this tonight-- I feel like if the character is given enough "lucid" intention it will work out in some way.

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## Alexander1656

> Thats pretty much correct



But when we go lucid that part of our brain goes back on

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## beachgirl

_
Quote: But when we go lucid that part of our brain goes back on_

interesting point... do you know how fully it comes back on? for example in hypnagogic states, aren't we far more impressionable, for example? so does it come fully on or just partially?

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## LouieO

It depends on the level of lucidity. If you're fully lucid it should be entirely (or nearly entirely) on, but if the lucidity is extremely low level it might be very lightly activated (for lack of a better term)

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## beachgirl

i would think if you were totally rational that alone would take you out of lucidity - i think reality is flirting or dancing with the non-logical at best.
people don't fly IRL, for example...

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## LouieO

Of course they don't. but that doesn't mean it's not logical IN A DREAM. It's not about what  you do, it's about if or if you are not thinking like a person who is awake. IN A DREAM, you would probably just think, "Oh, flying. Whatever. That's commonplace. That's possible." IN A LUCID, your thoughts would be more like, "Oh this is a dream! That means I can fly! YAY!"

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## Alexander1656

The logic part goes back on. But  the reading part stays off. So we just think wee are reading when we are not

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## Dire

The "logic center" brings up some interesting ideas. The way I thought it worked was that during _normal_ REM sleep, the logic center shuts down, which accounts for why flying and such things in dreams aren't necessarily instant cues to the untrained mind that a dream is occurring. When entering REM sleep from a _mind awake, body asleep_ position, the logic center has more activity as it hasn't had the opportunity to shut down. The kind of makes sense, when you listen to the reported differences between MILD/DILDs and WILDs. From what I've read, people tend to say that MILD and DILDs tend to be more abstract and dreamlike, whereas WILDs have a tendency to be pretty realistic. Many WILDers report that they tend to begin their WILDs with false awakenings, and this would make sense if the logical brain were still on. The brain thinks "Well, I was in bed a few minutes ago, I must still be in bed." despite the fact that you are dreaming.

I _love_ the CCILD concept. This would be especially cool if you have re-occurring DCs. How much success do you have with this technique vs your success rates with others, Sesquipedalian?

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