# Sleep and Dreams > Beyond Dreaming >  >  Anyone else met the Night Stalkers and Dream Walkers?

## Lex16

I'm interested to know. I've discussed this on another thread on Club Bleach and there are very few people that know what I'm talking about. Maybe you lot do.
I've only recently come into contact with them, about 2 years if I remember correctly.
So? Does anyone know?

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## Neruo

What are they?

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## Sanzora

She's not gona be here till Monday apparently so I'l explain... In short, Dream Walkers and Night Stalkers are two factions that are able to walk into other people's dreams at will for various reasons. DW's = Good guys, NS's = Bad guys. They kinda take shared dreaming to a new level... 

In response to the thread, yes, I've interacted with them. But I kinda think this thread _might_ be i the wrong place :p

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## pj

Yep - it's in the wrong place.  Now that I know what you're talking about, it will be moved to Beyond Dreaming.

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## The Cusp

If there really are such things as dream walkers and night stalkers, it would seem to me boards like these would be a great place to choose targets.  Especially people who keep dream journals.  Then the could read about themselves afterwards.

In retrospect, since I've been on this forum, I've had a rash of nigh indestructible opponents in my dreams.  The can stand up to my best dream skills, and usually have me on the run.  But while I couldn't defeat them, they couldn't defeat me either.

The last such incident, I was reminded of something I had once read in a Castaneda book, how the soles of the feet are a weak spot on the energy body.  I was able to send a spike through the bottom of his foot and drive it up his leg to the knee.  Haven't had a dream like that since.  That'll teach 'em.

So if there are dream stalkers on this forum, I say BRING IT ON!!!!!  I'm not afraid of you!

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## Fordy

I dont think I have met with a dream walker or night stalker. But if they are on this forum, BRING IT ON! whenever I die in my dreams I just become more lucid ::D:

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## Goldney

So these people come into your dreams? I find that somewhat hard to believe. How are they going to project their conscious into your sub-conscious telepathically? There is very little about them on the internets...

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## luv2dream

wait, what are shared dreams? i keep hearing things about it but i dont really know what it is :Confused:

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## The Cusp

> So if there are dream stalkers on this forum, I say BRING IT ON!!!!!  I'm not afraid of you!



I had a really painful dream last night...

But you're gonna have to do better than that!  I'll concede a point to the dream stalkers, but you'll get yours.

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## Fordy

> So these people come into your dreams? I find that somewhat hard to believe. How are they going to project their conscious into your sub-conscious telepathically? There is very little about them on the internets...



Many things are hard to believe. Just because this one is really really hard to  believe doesn't mean it isn't true. Continental drift, atoms and the word being spherical was all thought to be poppycock back in the good ol' days

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## Sanzora

You have a lot of desire to beleive in things that you can't prove Fordy ^_^ I like you.





> So these people come into your dreams? I find that somewhat hard to believe. How are they going to project their conscious into your sub-conscious telepathically? There is very little about them on the internets...



Yeah, there aint much on them online, not that I have found much myself. I've met them though, so I beleive in them. I'm not gonna try convince anyone  :wink2:  As for projecting conscious into sub-conscios, I'm not sure if it's like that... if you can call lucidity 'consciousness' then I suppose so yes. They become lucid and then project themselves into another's dreams. Telepaths say that they can communicate with people across the world, why should telepathy when you're asleep be any different?





> I had a really painful dream last night...
> 
> But you're gonna have to do better than that! I'll concede a point to the dream stalkers, but you'll get yours



Ummm... dude, just have to ask: who are you talking to? You run into some of these guys or something?

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## The Cusp

Probably just coincidence, but I make a cocky challenge like that, and that very night I get my ass handed to me in my dreams.

Deep down I'm hoping there really are some, as I love dream scrapping.  Of course I'm probably just inducing these dreams myself, but you never know.

I was talking to the theoretical dream stalkers who might be lurking this board.  But even if there were some, they'd be to chicken to come into my dreams.  (See, I'm trying to bait them :wink2: )

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## Sanzora

> Probably just coincidence, but I make a cocky challenge like that, and that very night I get my ass handed to me in my dreams.
> 
> Deep down I'm hoping there really are some, as I love dream scrapping.  Of course I'm probably just inducing these dreams myself, but you never know.
> 
> I was talking to the theoretical dream stalkers who might be lurking this board.  But even if there were some, they'd be to chicken to come into my dreams.  (See, I'm trying to bait them)



LOL! Be sure to tell me how that turns out m'k?

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## Man of Shred

I Definately have dreamwalked in the past. But it mostly happened by accident.

 If the castaneda thing is true. then our dream selves are still concious while we are awake. They have the ability to walk into one's dreams. They have their own agenda and usually obey the unconcious intent of a person.

 for the longest time Someones other self was taunting me in me in my dreams. now it might've been the other persons dream body. or my unconcious just bugging me. however, I re-read some of the castaneda books and got inspired to do a "spell". I'm not sure what i did or exactly how i did it, but the person vanished from my dreams ever since.

 a month before i cast the spell, i followed a person to their dreams using the second gate. I spotted an animal that represented thema nd i followed it. it led me to a very realistic and vivid lucid dream in which i met the person.

 maybe i'm crazy.. i dunno. but there's something to the castaneda stuff

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## Lex16

> Probably just coincidence, but I make a cocky challenge like that, and that very night I get my ass handed to me in my dreams.
> 
> Deep down I'm hoping there really are some, as I love dream scrapping.  Of course I'm probably just inducing these dreams myself, but you never know.
> 
> I was talking to the theoretical dream stalkers who might be lurking this board.  But even if there were some, they'd be to chicken to come into my dreams.  (See, I'm trying to bait them)



I can only say this...IDIOT!!!BAKA!!!!MORON!!!!
For now I think this is enough on that.

Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself.

You have no idea how many people that are either Night Stalkers or Dream Walkers are actually on this thread at this moment. God and I thought I had bravado when I walked into their camp, LOL!!!
You got guts, I like that and I hope you kick some serious ass but I warn you, the N.S are masters of causing pain you can't even begin to comprehend...but hell...there are so few dreamers that have the guts to stand up to them I will take my hat off to you.
Welcome to my war.

Someone emailed me yesterday and asked if I could explain a bit on the N.S and D.W's.
How much do you want to know?
I can give you two diaries with more or less 700 Lucid dream encounters with each of the factions, they are very Ying-Yang..,though Sanz is right in saying they are so called 'good' guys and 'bad' guys.
They are people just like you and me that dream the same way, they just formed gangs or as I like to call them, factions.
There are a few but only 3 major ones. The Night Stalkers: Lead by the 2nd devision and some Old lady that is really powerful.
The Dream Walkers: Controlled by the council of dreams (three old guys that are so weak!) and the Dream Master.
Then come the Rogues, the faction in which I place myself: They rule themselves...they do as they please and follow no one.
There are other lesser factions...like the Watchers but I don't know too much about them, hunted one once...they're beyond strange.
The factions are structured as thus: Night Stalkers have their female leader followed by their precious second devision, then the fighters below that that struggle for power.
Dream Walkers: Dream Master (and I give him too much credit then he deserves) followed by the Dream Council then the Squad leaders, trainers and then the recruits.
Rogues: Do as they please, no structure.

Is that all or would you guys like some names of the people I have met in the past 2 years...or perhaps some stories...I got plenty to tell...being a hunter.

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## The Cusp

Wow, wasn't expecting such a detailed post on what was a pretty obscure topic before now.





> Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you



That's all part of my plan.  I can't think of a better way to attain lucidity, or anything I'd rahter do with it than crush bad guys.  Plus I can learn their tricks

I haven't slept well the past couple of nights, too many oreos before bed and high humidity.  But I should be asleep all night tonight if anyone wants a piece of me.





> I hope you kick some serious ass but I warn you, the N.S are masters of causing pain you can't even begin to comprehend...



Pain?  Is that all they got?  Pain is nothing.  I can do way better than that.   





> You have no idea how many people that are either Night Stalkers or Dream Walkers are actually on this thread at this moment.



Makes sense.  If I was a dream stalker of sorts, I'd probably lurk around here looking for victims. (Pick me! Pick me!)

I still don't know if I believe this yet.  Time will tell.  Although I have found it odd that the indestructible menaces in my dreams sometimes get distracted by random stuff and wander off, like they just lost lucidity and got wrapped up in the dream.

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## Man of Shred

Although i can dreamwalk. I have no reason to do so, unless i want to help someone. let me ask you? why are people dreamwalking and terrorising people? is it for energy?

 if that's what it is for, you can get better energy from stalking Allies. or Inorganic Beings?

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## skysaw

If you can dreamwalk, I challenge you to come visit me tonight (or any night). If you present yourself in my dream, I will give you a message. Tell me the message here on this board, and I will send you a check for $1,000.

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## Man of Shred

It's never all that easy for me. since i haven't been lucid in quite a  while.
My dream self has a different agenda. It is not interested in money or personal gain. I have a hard time believing it sometimes.

 It is an interesting challenge tho. Don't say i didn't warn you.

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## luv2dream

> Is that all or would you guys like some names of the people I have met in the past 2 years...or perhaps some stories...I got plenty to tell...being a hunter.



how can you be a ns/dw hunter? i'm very interested, (not in becoming one... just in knowing about it) i would like to hear some stories. This seems like something that would be in some fantasy book. are you sure it's real?

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## luv2dream

> Although i can dreamwalk. I have no reason to do so, unless i want to help someone. let me ask you? why are people dreamwalking and terrorising people? is it for energy?



can you learn how to dreamwalk, or does it just come naturally? i dont know why i'm asking this though seeing as though i suck at lucid dreaming anyway.

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## Man of Shred

It seems to happen by itself with a little intent behind it.

 A few stories:

 Once, when i was overly obsessed with dream shamanism i tried something I read in a Carlos Castaneda book. In the book. Don Genaro was making fun of castaneda for writing notes. He told carlos that he should write his notes with  his fingertips instead of his pen - That it would be a perfect _not doing_, for carlos.

 Keep in mind i was nearly a madman at this time. I got inspired. pulled out a piece of paper and wrote with my fignertip on the paper my Intent. I think it said "where do i go from here". Then i took the piece of paper to my balcony. and burned it. At the same time, my roomate was on the balcony on the phone. As soon as the last ember burned out on the paper. my roomate said to me "hey, talk to my friend. he's been having problems with hallucinations."

 The event was so synchronised that i couldn't refuse. I talked to his friend. His friend described being chased by things that only he could see. He mentioned his dreams were filled with beings draining his energy and terrorising him.

 What i found out later on was that my rommate had a dream about his friend. In his dream the friend was suicidal and nearly killed my roomate in the dream. My roomate phoned his friend to discover that his friend was really considering suicide. another synchronous event.

 The beings he described sounded much like what i read in the castaneda books. So I talked to hours to him about what i had read. The guy thanked me for understanding. He thought he was going crazy and everyone around him thought he was going insane. 

 when i went to bed that night. i had a dream about the guy. in the dream He was exposing himself to a red light that was draining his energy. In the castaneda books it describes seeing a red being in a dream is a dangerous thing. They are astral type beings. In the dream i pulled him away from the red light.

 My roomate said to me a few months later. that his friend was doing ok. and that he had no idea what i had said but somehow i got through to him.

 I asked my roomate about the night on the balcony. He described the event in great detail. While he was talking on the phone to his friend he barely noticed me on the balcony. He then saw me waving my hands in the air. He didn't see me burning anything nor did he smell any smoke. He said the sight of me gave him a compulsion to hand me the phone. He said it was wierd, it was like he wasn't acting of his own volition. Something propelled him to hand the phone to me.

 I'll post more sstories later. About the writing thing. I've used that a few times in times i needed an answer to something. it almost always gives me a synchronous dream, or does something wierd that blows my mind.

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## AHiddenSaint

I don't know if this relates to anything like this, but I posted about something weird that happen to me one night. I kept having different style of dreams that wouldn't let me leave the dream and kept showing me bad stuff. Well my dream self got pissed off about it. 

For some reason I remember going into a type of office and complaining about this one person telling whoever was over it that this person needs to stop now. I remember giving them a name of a person too. I don't know how my dream self knew the name, but for some reason I knew what was going on and where to go in order to complain. 

BTW, that isn't the first that has happen to me. My dream self has gone into what appear to be like offices and there were different forums of people. I have no idea about the subject and wouldn't have thought of it as part of anything like that till I saw the post and wanted to see do you think that could be part of or related to anything like that? 

I've also had dreams before where I've been told by people in the dream I'm not suppose to be there plus dreams where people have told me this is real not a dream. I'm sure it's nothing though.

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## AHiddenSaint

BTW, Just for the record since there are people challenging other things if there are those type of deal here watching. I don't know if this thread was old or new I just saw it here tonight. I'm not challenging anyone. I was just wondering about that because I've been trying to understand my own dreaming better. I mean no harm to anybody and respect whatever is out there as long as respect me.

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## ♥Mark

> If you can dreamwalk, I challenge you to come visit me tonight (or any night). If you present yourself in my dream, I will give you a message. Tell me the message here on this board, and I will send you a check for $1,000.



*Que cop outs

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## Sanzora

> *Que cop outs



I'll pretend to know what that means :p 





> I don't know if this relates to anything like this, but I posted about something weird that happen to me one night. I kept having different style of dreams that wouldn't let me leave the dream and kept showing me bad stuff. Well my dream self got pissed off about it. 
> 
> For some reason I remember going into a type of office and complaining about this one person telling whoever was over it that this person needs to stop now. I remember giving them a name of a person too. I don't know how my dream self knew the name, but for some reason I knew what was going on and where to go in order to complain. 
> 
> BTW, that isn't the first that has happen to me. My dream self has gone into what appear to be like offices and there were different forums of people. I have no idea about the subject and wouldn't have thought of it as part of anything like that till I saw the post and wanted to see do you think that could be part of or related to anything like that? 
> 
> I've also had dreams before where I've been told by people in the dream I'm not suppose to be there plus dreams where people have told me this is real not a dream. I'm sure it's nothing though.



Sounds like you're a little more involved than you think ^_^ My dream self does that too. I'll meet DreamWalkers and know their names but it makes sense if you consider the telepathy/shared dream (theoretic) connection - you would know who the person you're connected with is. 

I know that there was a trianing programme a while ago where someone on the DW side was experimenting in trying to induce lucidity in potential recruits without them achieving it themselves. Don't ask me how it works though... I just know because I was one of the experimentees :/ Maybe that's how you got involved (If I'm right and you actually _are_ involved)





> can you learn how to dreamwalk, or does it just come naturally? i dont know why i'm asking this though seeing as though i suck at lucid dreaming anyway.



I think you can learn. Again, I don't know how... sorry

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## Vortex

A google search of Dream Walkers and Night Stalkers just brings up loads of stuff about Role Playing Games. Are you maybe confusing reality and role playing, or has one taken the name from the other? 
Interesting thread anyway.

Vortex.

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## AHiddenSaint

> I'll pretend to know what that means :p 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're a little more involved than you think ^_^ My dream self does that too. I'll meet DreamWalkers and know their names but it makes sense if you consider the telepathy/shared dream (theoretic) connection - you would know who the person you're connected with is. 
> 
> I know that there was a trianing programme a while ago where someone on the DW side was experimenting in trying to induce lucidity in potential recruits without them achieving it themselves. Don't ask me how it works though... I just know because I was one of the experimentees :/ Maybe that's how you got involved (If I'm right and you actually _are_ involved)
> 
> 
> I think you can learn. Again, I don't know how... sorry



I've always had weird things happen in my dream. I've never looked up anything about the subject before that is why wonder. Till this thread did not know anything about dream walkers. I do however know just because we do not understand things doesn't mean should disrespect stuff. We still only use a small part of our brain so we do not fully know what we are capable of. 

Now I don't know if this is related, but my dreams have sort of evovled in a way over a period of time. I used to have real bad nightmares till started to take control of the dreams. One of the defenses that have seemed to come out of it is God dreams. Basically when someone is trying to do harm to me my dream character for some reason believes themself to be a God and takes control of the dream that way. 

I do have a question is there any relationship to Dream Walkers and The Ancient ones? A started to research that subject back in my early teens. I had almost a vision or dream of my room. When looking at the wall it opened up into more of a desert landscape with 3 people more in robe type format. It was like watching something I wasn't suppose to be seeing. They were talking about that they could use this person and such. It's been a long time so I have lost a lot of the converstation, but still remember it because I wanted to remember it and have searched out the term.

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## Pirate

how would dreamwalking work? is there an explanation? (i dont doubt anything, i just like to understand things) how would you do it?
god, pissin off my freind  in his sleep TOO  would be great!
(no escape!)

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## Lord Toaster

This is fascinating. So you are saying that all Dream walkers and Night Stalkers and Watchers and whatever else are all real people? What decides which faction you go to? 
I would be very interested to meet someone like this in my dreams, but I must admit I am sceptical of the possibility.

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## Pirate

^
|
|
what he said

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## LucidFlanders

If you're a  hot chick please come into my dream!
 nothing like a sex dream, lucid or non lucid.

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## anomanderis

they don't necessarily have to be other people (or other humans, for the matter). Until we don't know what they are, we can't just rule out that they could be spirits without corporeal existence or smth like that

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## the real pieman

i'm kind of a practising dream walker, ive done it a few times before while lucid....although ive never successfully entered someone elses dream, ive replayed their dream in my head before asking them to tell me it and ive pulled someone from their dream into mine, its interesting but i need more practise to see if they wern't just coincidences (i doubt they were though becuse btoh of us remembered it clearly) ...also once i tried dream stalking but i wasnt able to remain in a dream long enough for it to work.... 

i havent tried it much recently because it seems a bit dangerous as well as there are so many other things to do in the dream world and my dreams have a habit of stopping spontaneously which could be problematic, and its not much use in the real world...

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## anomanderis

it would be extremely interesting to see who would have greater power in the dream. I'd guess it was the dreamer himself cuz its his bloody dream, but until empirical evidence i remain open to all possibilities.

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## Sanzora

> This is fascinating. So you are saying that all Dream walkers and Night Stalkers and Watchers and whatever else are all real people? What decides which faction you go to? 
> I would be very interested to meet someone like this in my dreams, but I must admit I am sceptical of the possibility.



Yep, they are real people. Lex has interacted with one particular DW in her Varsity - they each only know each other's DC names and he approached her as if they knew each other in RL. I myself have interacted with some real DWs and NSs in the waking world.

Each side approaches potential recruits with various trials (not always to the knowledge of the Dreamer). If the trials are passed then they are approached by a member of the relevant faction (normally trainers or equivalent) and are asked if they would like to join.





> they don't necessarily have to be other people (or other humans, for the matter). Until we don't know what they are, we can't just rule out that they could be spirits without corporeal existence or smth like that



Unfortunately I will say this is wrong. While I do not argue the fact that spirits and other beings may visit us in our dreams, DWs and NSs are human (I'm not sure what Watchers are) and they interact with real people.





> it would be extremely interesting to see who would have greater power in the dream. I'd guess it was the dreamer himself cuz its his bloody dream, but until empirical evidence i remain open to all possibilities



It depends who has the stronger mind ^_^

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## anomanderis

> Unfortunately I will say this is wrong. While I do not argue the fact that spirits and other beings may visit us in our dreams, DWs and NSs are human (I'm not sure what Watchers are) and they interact with real people.



I still say that if all the DWs and NSs you've met are indeed human, then that doesn't mean ALL of them are. The possibility remains, as slight as it may be. 
Or do you define DWs and NWs as being human? Then yes, I agree with you  :wink2:

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## Sanzora

> I still say that if all the DWs and NSs you've met are indeed human, then that doesn't mean ALL of them are. The possibility remains, as slight as it may be. 
> Or do you define DWs and NWs as being human? Then yes, I agree with you



Cosidering the 'selection process' (for lack of a better word) where an existing DW/NS (who has to be a Lucid Dreamer to be recruited) approaches a new Lucid Dreamer (who is asleep and dreaming) one would have to assume that unless the deceased dream they can't be spirits  :wink2:

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## Bad Wolf

> Cosidering the 'selection process' (for lack of a better word) where an existing DW/NS (who has to be a Lucid Dreamer to be recruited) approaches a new Lucid Dreamer (who is asleep and dreaming) one would have to assume that unless the deceased dream they can't be spirits



You don't have to join a faction to dream walk or night stalk. Spirits should easily be able to enter a person's dreams. In fact, for all we know there could be factions that call themselves the Spirit Dream Walkers/Spirit Night Stalkers.

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## anomanderis

yes, for me too it seems that you're only describing the human faction, if there indeed are other factions. I know this is all semantics, but still...:p.
I wonder - is there a Code for the Dream Walkers? Like the Jedi Code... 
Night Stalkers prolly do what the hell they want.

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## The Cusp

I was tortured and interrogated in my dreams last night.  I'll put that down as a possible DS visitation.  But no points awarded on either side, that was some weak torture.   ::?:

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## vexx

I once think I experienced a dream-walker. I had just become lucid and could feel the dream itself. it was weird, it was like he was just standing, watching. I didn't know anything but he didn't alarm me. He felt familiar. Hopefully i'll be able to see who it was when i get better at lucid dreaming.

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## vee

Wait till your sixty. (ha ha) Wait till they step out of your dreams, and into your bedroom.

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## Bad Wolf

I wonder what would happen if either a dream walker and a night stalker or two night stalkers who hate each other meet up in your dream.

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## Drk Pwnr

It could just be the way I love to buy into these kind of cool dramatic conspiracy paranormal things, but I think I may have had an encounter with someone, perhaps trying to recruit me, but I was too hazy to realize it...

For all stalkers/walkers out there, can anyone tell me what the significance of the letters SW is? Is it ScarecroW? I've been obsessing about it ever since that night in March...
*rereads*
Stalker/Walker... that was unexpected... but when SW randomly appears to me it usually is!

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## horsebucket

I was looking up dream stalking and came across this. 
http://www.parallelperception.com/stalking.html
Not the same thing but interesting all the same. Sounds like the teachings of don juan. I doubt ive ever ran into any but usually I can kick the crap out of any DC in a lucid dream but one day I threw a punch at this tall lanky character getting out of a car and I missed and he beat the living crap outta me. Took me by surprise because I thought I was unbeatable in my dreams.

I didnt know all this about Freddy Krueger. 
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...968343,00.html
Son of a thousand lunatics born in a mental asylum.

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## vexx

can somebody please tell me everything they know about lucid dreaming and these dream factions... just PM me. Anyway, i didn't really remember my dream last night, well i did but not very much of it. There was no lucidity about it, and i still felt like i was being observed. The more I try to remember the more I forget...

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## Lex16

First off I would seriously like to thank the N.S squad that thought it was a good idea to turn into skeletons to hunt me. I haven't had that much fun playing soccer in a long time! LOL! Thanks guys, you guys know how to make a hunter happy!
Lets see, there was a lot to reply to.

Skysaw: I see you're an American so let me saw this slowly...no offense...you want me to dreamwalk into your dream? Idiot, you forget there are different time zones in the wolrd, at least you are 6 hours behind me, I sleep about 6 hours at night...got news for you, NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!! Anyway you must be an idiot to think I would give my birthname out on this thread...ha!

Cusp: Dude you are seriously looking for shit!

Iluv2dream: How to become a hunter? It's easy. Fight back. It's no real faction, I have noticed more hunters coming out after this thread started and I thank you.

Vortex: Think I'm making this up? Role playing? Don't make me laugh! I haven't even heard of those Role playing games! Walk a mile in someone elses shoes before you judge.

Someone asked for stories?
Ask Sanz how I started. She knows all. 

One more thing: The bone brain that froze in our fight on the 11/06...you were very lucky I missed, next time you won't be so lucky, I rarely miss more than once.

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## skysaw

> Skysaw: I see you're an American so let me saw this slowly...no offense...you want me to dreamwalk into your dream? Idiot, you forget there are different time zones in the wolrd, at least you are 6 hours behind me, I sleep about 6 hours at night...got news for you, NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!! Anyway you must be an idiot to think I would give my birthname out on this thread...ha!



Lex, I'm assuming you have some mental problems, so I'll let the unwarranted name-calling go. But just a little tip... when you mean offense, there is no need to say "no offense." It's a hollow sentiment and it just serves to make you look confused. 

Nowhere in my challenge post did I address you specifically. I was addressing _anyone_ who can dreamwalk, and the offer stands, and more specifically to ranma187 who actually said "I have dreamwalked" shortly before my post. In any case, the cash should be enough to prompt a nap on a strapped dreamwalker's part, even if they live in another part of the "wolrd."  ::rolleyes:: 

But the part I'm really confused about is where I supposedly asked for your birthname. Is that somewhere in this thread?  :Confused:

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## luv2dream

Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself.

[/quote]

Ok i just have a few questions:
1) how can you ban someone from dreaming? 
2) can Night Stalkers ban you from dreaming?
3) If you kill them or they kill you isn't that just your dream body dying so it wouldn't be that big of a deal? 
4) (kind of off the subject of the quote) Dream walkers are in factions and everything but they're not like Night Stalkers or "bad guys" so what do they do? 
sorry, i'm probably bothering you asking all these questions like a 5 year old. This is really interesting though, either it's a bunch of bull or it's one of the coolest things i've ever heard.

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## horsebucket

::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::  ::banana::

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## AHiddenSaint

lex16 left my name out on insulting I feel unloved. I need a hug  ::whyme::

----------


## The Cusp

> Cusp: Dude you are seriously looking for shit!
> 
> Someone asked for stories?
> Ask Sanz how I started. She knows all.



Yes, yes I am.  Where can I find that old bag who supposedly leads the night stalkers?  I want a title shot!

Well how about it Sanz?  You going to vouch for this guy?  Tell us his secret origin story.

----------


## Dunchfastmo

So you guys are saying that you fight these dream stalkers while being lucid??
I think its kinda funny that you know your dreaming yet you still believe that DCs  are actual lucid dreamers invading your dreams.  It would be very very cool to communicate with other oneironauts in the dream world but i think if it were possible scientists would do some research...I've yet to see any proof, sorry to rain on your parade but this looks like a bunch of kids playing make believe.

----------


## AHiddenSaint

> So you guys are saying that you fight these dream stalkers while being lucid??
> I think its kinda funny that you know your dreaming yet you still believe that DCs  are actual lucid dreamers invading your dreams.  It would be very very cool to communicate with other oneironauts in the dream world but i think if it were possible scientists would do some research...I've yet to see any proof, sorry to rain on your parade but this looks like a bunch of kids playing make believe.



You do know that the government had it's own experimental program with remote viewing don't you? They actually trained people in the developement of that program.

----------


## skysaw

> You do know that the government had it's own experimental program with remote viewing don't you? They actually trained people in the developement of that program.



Yes, they had such a program and wasted millions in taxpayers money, only to abandon it later. Here's more on that: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpsychicfed.html

----------


## delpiero

> Yes, they had such a program and wasted millions in taxpayers money, only to abandon it later. Here's more on that: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpsychicfed.html




Well you know what?

I totally believe it as Im sure I work at night for them. I think that the "psychic" people working for investigation is just another debate tho, however in the dreams they do come to you with orders and tasks and they do give you in change somekind of a paycheck or retribution.

Once they allowed me to talk with my girlfriend during one night while she was in another country. I woke up that morning and felt so tired as if I chatted the whole night instead of sleeping and I clearly remember the whole conversation that made a lot of sense.

Point is my own theory of those contact are made by radio frequencies that our body can capt and send. Lower the frequency is further it goes. Now think about this ... cellphones use radio frequencies and with a cellphone now you can send a picture or a video. Well same for our brain, I really think I can send you an impression or an image. After all thats why we invented drawing and vocabulary as humans, to communicate our emotions and impressions to others. 

But in a dream no need of big descriptions and imagery, for instance I could have explained everything with just some pulses by making you connect to my mind right?

So thats how they do it. They find what I call your "lock code" (by the matrix (see echelon) and once they chose with you they put you on a main frequence that they use, where they can connect to you at anytime. Its like when you connect to a server by using an IP adress and you know it's MAC adress. You can then access all the data and remotely control it or get all the info you want from it.

As for the night stalkers and dream walkers, I think I met some lurkers but usually their just "spectators".

________

I can also say that a year ago one of the "leaders" of that "intelligence program" died at a old age, and his replacement is a dude around 45-5 years that is much less sympatecthic and that I challenge his orders numerous times because he's just a prick.

PS: Watch out as they will also use faces and people that you know to first get your trust without scaring you. How to know it's them and not the real person you know that you meet in the dream?  Simple, the person will look exactly like on a recent picture you have and won't have the same personality. Usually when you dream about someone close from you, like a family member, he doesnt necessarely look exactly as that person looks at the present time. There is differences because your brain process that picture with feelings. So you could dream at your dad on how he looks like 10 years ago and not on how he looks on the latest picture you took from him a day before.


So use your judgement all the time, be smart, be lucid...

----------


## AHiddenSaint

Interesting dream last night. I was trying to for some reason in my dream help a spirit or ghost of a person pass on. I doubt it is anything other then a dream, but I thought would post and see. For some reason even though I used the defenses I normally use they weren't working and the spirit was actually stronger then me. I don't know how but other people were summoned that I didn't know their faces or who they were yet my dream self seemed to know. It was almost as if it was natural to work together in order to help the spirit move forward.  The dream also ended after the task was finished.

----------


## delpiero

> Interesting dream last night. I was trying to for some reason in my dream help a spirit or ghost of a person pass on. I doubt it is anything other then a dream, but I thought would post and see. For some reason even though I used the defenses I normally use they weren't working and the spirit was actually stronger then me. I don't know how but other people were summoned that I didn't know their faces or who they were yet my dream self seemed to know. It was almost as if it was natural to work together in order to help the spirit move forward.  The dream also ended after the task was finished.



Try to remember the details such as "pass on what exactly?" The people you did not know the faces, what where your feelings out of it ? If you had to take a wild guess on what role they had, for who they works, what would that guess say?

There are times in our lives when we must make choices based more on instinct than intellect.  Often, the soul recognizes its choices before the rational mind has time to process the information. So trust your instinc and tell me more.

----------


## AHiddenSaint

Remembering details from a dream isn't a problem for me. Basically with me I've had different dreams related to spirits or other people who have passed on. In most cases these are violent spirits that try to cause harm to my dreamself.

There seemed to be a little girl related to the old lady. At first it was a male figure that was coming through as what caused the death, but the older lady which could have been a element from both seemed to control what happen in the room. It was that spirit that had trouble with and wanted to violently harm me. 

Because I'm used to this type of stuff happening my dreams have developed into what I call the God Defense. My dream character is able to view themself as a God which in most cases takes control of what is going on. There are outside elements that still take into effect so it's not total control, but my dream self does become more powerful because of it. 

The others that were summoned couldn't tell you great detail about there faces because it was more then 5 at least. I want to say 12, but that seems to man at this point. I would say somewhere between 5 to 10. The thing though is I didn't do anything really to summon them within the dream it was almost as if it happen without calling upon, but instead because knew I couldn't handle this one alone even with my God dream defense state up.

----------


## delpiero

If I would let my subconscious speak I would tell you that this old lady also gave me trouble last night.

Actually thats how I ended up on these forums. 

I was on a mission when I got undercovered by 2 girls. Because of 2 words that I clearly remember "Yvette, Duette". I was somewhere around Prague downtown (or another east European metropole). And when I got undercover I started to chase the 2 girls but some hobos came to me and started to threat me. So while they were blocking my way the 2 girls were able to get away, and then all of a sudden a Police SWAT team of around 40 men or more came out from one street, they blitzed in the crowd and jumped on me.

They then brought me back in some parking lot where they threw me on the floor and started to kick me hard, like 5 big guys with huge boots hitting my skull and crushing my bones. I knew it was just a dream but still I felt pain, shame, as if it would happen for real. 

I did not know what was going on as I thought the SWAT team would be on my side, so I was confused, as if my team let me down. Then I discovered that a old lady order it, and the 2 girls where working for that old lady.

I hope it's not the same old lady, that would be weird. But I can't relate any old lady in my surroundings that matches her. First time I heard of such a powerfull character.

A little thing that makes me proud is that she had to intervene strongly and in front of everyone downtow a huge city at day time with 40 SWAT trained people to mobilise me while the 2 girls could get away. And the fact that I got caught by surprise and everything happened so fast made it impossible for me to do any counter attack...

Tonight, after my little trip to the liberty of statue, Im looking forward to refind some traces of that dark and powerfull organisation.

----------


## AHiddenSaint

I do remember two girls being in the dream. They didn't seem related at the moment. They seemed to be a sidenote as I wondered around the other part of the house deal.

----------


## Tomdub

Will you really pay me 1000 dollars to get into your dream.
How about this give me your name, credit card number, Address, phone number, and Social security, and I will go into your dream and make you lucid. For the small fee of $1000 plus all that info...mwahahahahahahahahhahhaaha mwahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaa

just kidding...but for all you that are dream walkers and night stalkers, don't mess with me unless you want to intentionally get me lucid. Then I would thank you graciously

----------


## AHiddenSaint

> Will you really pay me 1000 dollars to get into your dream.
> How about this give me your name, credit card number, Address, phone number, and Social security, and I will go into your dream and make you lucid. For the small fee of $1000 plus all that info...mwahahahahahahahahhahhaaha mwahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaa
> 
> just kidding...but for all you that are dream walkers and night stalkers, don't mess with me unless you want to intentionally get me lucid. Then I would thank you graciously



I was going to say something stupid here but the more I thought about the worst it sounded so I just thought I'd say Good night

----------


## Sanzora

> Yes, yes I am.  Where can I find that old bag who supposedly leads the night stalkers?  I want a title shot!
> 
> Well how about it Sanz?  You going to vouch for this guy?  Tell us his secret origin story.



Firstly, for the record, Lex is a she  :wink2:  secondly, which story you wanna hear? I got plenty... 





> I've yet to see any proof, sorry to rain on your parade but this looks like a bunch of kids playing make believe.



No worries ^_^ To each his own. You aint gotta beleive us, the thread is more to see if anyone else ahs had experience with these people, not to try and convince people they exist!

@delpiero: Thank you for the validation friend ^_^ Maybe I'll see you around the Dream World some time.  :wink2: 

@AHiddenSaint:  ::hug::  I'll try to get Lex to calm down, don't worry  :wink2:

----------


## skysaw

> Will you really pay me 1000 dollars to get into your dream.



Yes.





> How about this give me your name, credit card number, Address, phone number, and Social security, and I will go into your dream and make you lucid. For the small fee of $1000 plus all that info...mwahahahahahahahahhahhaaha mwahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaa



No.

----------


## blade5x

Any reason they come into *our* dreams - is the Astral Plane not big enough or something?

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## AHiddenSaint

Sanzora, it is just better not to react. I honestly still do not know if the subject is real or not real on Dreamwalkers and Nightstalkers. I just do know to many strange things have happen to me that I'm open minded yet still don't claim anything as proof. In this field of dreaming nothing we really can do could be shown as proof unless it effects someone physically. 

If I am invovled in it without knowing or someone has attacked me without my realizing it I do not know because my dreams are random. As strong as people fill I maybe I'm still as weak as the next person because there is a lot I do not understand. I do find the subject interesting and if I have gone overboard with posting a few dreams to see if it is related I'm sorry. 

BTW I respect those who believe in something different even though it can't be proven. It's important enough to them and I think it deserves the proper respect just as any subject would here. I am sorry that some have treated it as laughable. I do think you have others who are truly interested in the subject, but just do not understand enough about it and want to understand more.

----------


## delpiero

me it really is the "Old Lady" part that caught my attention. She's obviously a power figure, and I never heard of a Old Lady before.

As for my dream with the SWAT it's actually in Germany where the German police stopped a US secret operation during the G8 protest.

Protestants are the hobos I saw and the 2 girls. SWAT team was the German police, so now is to know why behind the protestant there is that old lady. And why the German Police is related to her as well...

Or it could also be that in the protestant German Police had infiltrators... 

Mind you , dream stalker might exist, but their probably just rebel and random org that just fool around. 

You have to see all this in a much higher scale, there is a war going on and power strugle going on in dreamland to capitalize on reality. If you can use dreams to view in distance and to connect to people then some serious org are using it for some serious stuff... and not throwing lil whatever balls you call taken from RPG games ::rolleyes:: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_viewing

So its impossible that a dream stalker try to interfere when Im on a mission.

However when Im on break I coulkd have met a couple.

Actually to be VERY HONEST, I remember once going in somekind of little kingdom where it was all dreamers there, a little like on this forums, like a community of lucid dreamers but this was in a lucid dream.

And I knew my job was to take over the place by challenging in a duel the supposely master of the place (king or prince).

So we were in a crowd everyone was wearing black capes like "rogues" and then some dude arrived with long dark hairs and some little tattoos and everyone got excited seeing him. So as I was undercover I didnt hesitated and went to meet him, I could feel that he was scared as hell realising he had to deal with me, he started to fly up as an hurrican was raising under him, I caught him by going up faster and threw him back to the ground.

The fight did not last long he got crushed and I took over that little kingdom. hehehe I can tell you that when I woke up it felt pretty good. But I knew this was for me just an amusement. Not work. So for me that's what those anarchist and rebels organisation are. You can be sure that Authorities out there eat them alive and make sure they never cross them in their mission, and if one is discovered sneaking in he will be hunted down...

Like those 2 girls... We will find them and interrogate them.

So I talked with HiddenSaint to see if it could be the same girls and if he helped them out to escape, but indeed we what billions and billions of people dreaming so chances are slight. If ever its the case... then it will explain why after my dream I came here and joined the forum.

 ::ninja::

----------


## the real pieman

> Firstly, for the record, Lex is a she  secondly, which story you wanna hear? I got plenty... 
> 
> 
> No worries ^_^ To each his own. You aint gotta beleive us, the thread is more to see if anyone else ahs had experience with these people, not to try and convince people they exist!



yeah, we're not trying to convince you, i mean it does sound a bit farfetched especiallyfor people who have not experienced it.....all that we ask is that you listen and see our side of the argument before taking sides....

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## delpiero

once we can meet will do some friendly challenges.

----------


## AHiddenSaint

> yeah, we're not trying to convince you, i mean it does sound a bit farfetched especiallyfor people who have not experienced it.....all that we ask is that you listen and see our side of the argument before taking sides....



What people should keep in mind too is we only use a small part of our brain. We still do not know what the other parts are capable of.

----------


## The Cusp

friendly challenges?  Like Fight Club?  Count me in!

Well since I've issued my challenge to the Dream Stalkers, my recall hasn't been the best due to poor sleep.  But just about every dream I've remembered has been, lets say troublesome.

So far, I've been turned to stone, hypnotically enslaved, interrogated, tortured with excessive gravity, made to pick the skin of my hand apart, tortured AND interrogated, interrogated, and put through some sort of pinball torture.  Notice I stopped keeping score.

It would seem there is something going on here, but I won't know for sure until I manage to see their energy.

On the other hand, those attacks were pretty *pathetic*.  I would have expected better from someone with the ability to dream walk.

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## AHiddenSaint

The Cusp, be happy I can't do anything and wouldn't. I personally do not like harming a person or causing them pain. If anything I'd be more likely to protect.

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## delpiero

hahaha for real Cusp?

Since you did a challenge on these forums your having troubles in your dreams?

----------


## Lex16

I missed quite a bit it would seem.

Apologies: Several I suppose...Skysaw for one. I got pissed when I saw your post, you'll have to forgive me on that. Or not, what ever pleases you.
I think you were the one I insulted the most here.
Mental problems? Does Berserk count as a mental illness? If it does then yeah, I got a problem.

Anyway! back to Q amd A:

What D.W's do? 
I think delpiero covered most of it...they keep control of the N.S, or at least try...or they just guide new dreamers. Within the faction they all have their own jobs and stuff.

Banning:
It's a term I use for when I cut the connection to the dream scape of another dreamer, but it can go horribly wrong, making it permenent. No more L.Ding ever again.
I only know of a few people that can do it though...

Can N.S ban?:
Oh yeah! There are a few members that are able to do it...the witch (Old Lady) for one. The D.W's are more prone to use this approach though.

Killing?:
That's a tough one. It depends on alot of things...for a lack of a better refrence have a look at the matrix...you do enough damage to the brain and that's it...you're toast.
You can either 'die' and come back with no damage...'die' and you lose L.Ding or Dying in your bed for no damn reason.

delpiero: I don't know the name of the Old Woman, I only have the names I have given her. She only told me what she was...that was about two years ago...or close to it. I've only seen her a few times. She stays away from me now. I threaten once and that's more of a promise...she sends no more of her soldiers.

RPGs:
I stand corrected! Was playing Cyber Punk this weekend and surprise surprise, we got attacked by the Night Stalker! So I pull back on the RPGs.

Stories! Man! This was so long ago. Sanz I hope you don't mind me telling this one.

About 2 and a half years ago Sanzora contacted me with a problem. She was being pestered by two Lucid Dreamers, assumed them to be Dream Walkers. I decided I wanted to meet these peeple...I was very sceptic, sorry Sanz but I was, so for a week I tried finding these two. Calling the names I was provided with.

After the week was up I was dead sure this was some kind of prank on me...but it wasn't. I was chilling in a arena I had made when this cloaked guy appeared.
I asked him if he was the one I was looking for and he was, unfortunatley I was woken a short time later and was unable to carry on the conversation with him.

Just about the next night he found me again. Still I was unsure...until he called Sanz the Rude One, a pet name ha has for her. I sorta realised the magnitude of this then.
Turned out in the end he and his partner, his sister, had been looking for new recruits and had found Sanz, she'll have to tell you that story.

I gave the two of them a scare before I sent them on their way. They thought I was a Night Stalker, it was a riot!

So...if you're reading this my old friend, laugh along, those were the days!

Less that a week later I had invitations to both factions.  ::rolleyes:: 

That's how I started actively L.Ding, not just chilling in other dreams.
Since then I've faced D.Ws and N.S, being called names I won't reveal here due to language  :wink2: , earned the right to call myself an N.S hunter and have various victories under my belt.

Right...story time done.
Hey N.S...stop using my friends to get to me...it's not working. And like I promised the names will come out soon.

----------


## anomanderis

Seems like The Cusp is having a pretty good time of it. Wonder if anyone'd attack me. I know that when i am lucid i am master of my dreamscape, but then again, lately i haven't been lucid very much. 
If someone's up for a try - then i'll be asleep by 23:00 GMT

----------


## Drk Pwnr

So it isn't just me who's had trouble sleeping since posting in this thread? That's an interesting thing...

----------


## The Cusp

> hahaha for real Cusp?
> 
> Since you did a challenge on these forums your having troubles in your dreams?



Yep.  And again last night.  This guy last night actually complimented one of my evasive maneuvers.
I find it more fun than trouble.

Lex, I really didn't expect that story about you and Sanz to sound so beleivable.

----------


## skysaw

> What people should keep in mind too is we only use a small part of our brain. We still do not know what the other parts are capable of.



This is a popular myth, but PET scans and MRIs demonstrate clearly that this is not the case. See this article.

----------


## Sanzora

> I was very sceptic, sorry Sanz but I was



NP Sis ^_^ How do you think I felt? \o/





> Just about the next night he found me again. Still I was unsure...until he called Sanz the Rude One, a pet name ha has for her. I sorta realised the magnitude of this then.
> Turned out in the end he and his partner, his sister, had been looking for new recruits and had found Sanz, she'll have to tell you that story.



Ok, that story  ::D: 

So it happened just about when I was getting into lucid dreaming... I was about 6 months down the road with the whole thing and had really only had a few Lucid dreams before it happened. But I did recognise one of the DCs in my dream as someone who was helping me, and At this particular time I hadn't seen him in a while. I didn't know his name.

Jump back to a few years before, when I was 16, I had gotten into the idea of possibly writing a fictional book based on Lucid Dreamers who could walk into people's dreams. They were known as Dream Walkers. I never got round to writing the book, but I established some of the characters. One of the main Characters was a guy named M(for the purposes of not exposing him cos he's actually not a bad guy  :wink2: ) This given, I decided that I was going to name my helpful DC 'M', after the character in my book. 

I decided the next time I go Lucid I was going to try and find M in one of the most familiar ways of summoning DCs to you, calling his name.

One night I finally did it and went Lucid and remembered my goal of speaking with M. So I started calling. I walked into a lounge-type area and walked past several groups of people, but not finding my DC. Eventually towards the end of the room I noticed someone that stood out more than the other people, so I looked at him. He still wasn't my DC, so I walked past and continued calling. Then the guy I'd just noticed pipes up 'Don't you know it's rude to call someone and then ignore them flat!' (hence 'The Rude One' :p) I turn around and look at him again... He actually matched the description of the character for my book a few years earlier! His sister then entered my dream, and I knew her name too (even though I had never thought of her before) and I was made aware of the fact that they were DWs. I learned that they had been watching me for quite some time, which is why they came to me immediately whereas they took a while to respond to Lex.

I'll be honest, I also thought we were maybe both just a little crazy and we were rubbing off on each other until about a year ago we found another person in America that had had run-ins with the various factions. That freaked me out! What was even wierder was when I ran into one in real life that had saved me one night when NSs attacked me. He knew my DC name even though we'd never met in real life... So yeah *shrug* Se la vi as the saying goes  :wink2:

----------


## a_pirates_life_for_me

ok, I'm sure it might not be impossible for someone to dreamwalk, but I mean come on! The leader of the night stalkers is a witch? they're all in factions? They   spend all their time trying to hunt people down and what's the point in doing that? and then they try to find the hunters because I'm sure it's possible that they know who's trying to hunt them. And how do they ban you from dreaming? is there like a plug in your subconcious that they pull making it impossible for you to dream? (that wasn't a serious question by the way) And you keep saying how they could kill you in real life through your dreams because they like fry your brain or something, but your dreams are in your subconcious, it's just part of your imagination, so they can't physically hurt you. maybe in your dream they can but they can't kill you in the dream and make you die in real life, because they didn't touch your actual brain, they were just in your imagination. And all this sounds like it would be in a fiction book or it would be something that little kids would make up as a fantasy game. And has anyone who's dreamwalked actually met that person in real life? cause it could just be a DC that keeps showing up in your dreams. I'm not trying to be rude about anything here, but it seems highly unlikely. But, I've never actually experienced it, and you have no way of proving that it's not true, but then again you have no way of proving that it is true

----------


## Sanzora

> ok, I'm sure it might not be impossible for someone to dreamwalk, but I mean come on! The leader of the night stalkers is a witch?



 No, she's not. Lex just called her that cos she doesn't like her ^_^ LOL!

As stated before, we aint here to convince anyone. It's up to you if you want ot beleive it or not.  :wink2:

----------


## AHiddenSaint

> No, she's not. Lex just called her that cos she doesn't like her ^_^ LOL!
> 
> As stated before, we aint here to convince anyone. It's up to you if you want ot beleive it or not.



BTW what is the deal with the old lady? Why does she attack people? Does she appear different based on what a person is into? 

Oh P.S. I had something happen last night. I entered a building with a lot of people. This place seemed real because no matter how in control I was I couldn't control the other people within the dream. Plus events kept happening to try and keep me away from my Goal again. 

That was apparently someone had been held hostage. The buliding itself kept growing as if some sort of hideout. There were people in there trying to stop me, but no matter what their attempt I kept going forward. What made me think though is I was thinking about The Cusp right when I went to bed and again remember I told you if I do anything it would be to protect a person. For some reason I had to save this person no matter what. 

I don't remember any names being mentioned, but I do know these dream characters seemed more alive then anything else. I'll see if anything else happens but who knows The Cusp I could be coming to rescue you without realizing it.

----------


## The Cusp

Don't go out of your way, AHiddenSaint, I can handle myself, plus I have been begging for it.

And I know how the secret to winning a dream fight.

Interesting how lex mentioned they were trying to recruit Sanz.  I've been interrogated 3 times in my dreams since I first posted in this thread.  The twisted violence in my dreams isn't so unusual (But never this consistent).  It's the interrogations that intrest me.  I may have self incubated those violent dreams, but in no way was I expecting to be interrogated.

----------


## AHiddenSaint

> Don't go out of your way, AHiddenSaint, I can handle myself, plus I have been begging for it.
> 
> And I know how the secret to winning a dream fight.
> 
> Interesting how lex mentioned they were trying to recruit Sanz.  I've been interrogated 3 times in my dreams since I first posted in this thread.  The twisted violence in my dreams isn't so unusual (But never this consistent).  It's the interrogations that intrest me.  I may have self incubated those violent dreams, but in no way was I expecting to be interrogated.



Not going out of my way. I just for some reason when I dream feel I have to be the hero. It's my job to save people. Btw do dreamwalkers become Angelic like in nature?

----------


## Sanzora

> Interesting how lex mentioned they were trying to recruit Sanz.



Don't get us wrong, I'm haven't been recruited. They were just scouting at the time and thats why they were watching me. But to my knowledge I might be on some waiting list of sorts :p They want me to past tests and stuff, and until I regain my lucidity, never gonna happen  ::?: 

BTW, what do they interrogate you on? (Just curious ^_^)





> Btw do dreamwalkers become Angelic like in nature?



Ummm... Tough question, not sure how to answer that. It depends on the person... They're all human after all - people like you and me. They could be something like Guardians maybe, but not sure about angelic  :wink2:  If you explain how you mean the question maybe I can answer better. :Cool:

----------


## anomanderis

It seems that my request was answered by a Night Stalker, but I will leave it up to you to decide:

I am in the forest with my friend and we are running away from a beast – a bear. It is wintertime and we are cold. (Reference to the movie with Hopkins and Baldwin). For some reason, my friend is in a red plastic suit - that of Iron Man. His body is stuck in the ice with only his head floating in a pool of shallow water. If he relaxes, his helmet will sink and thus he will drown. The only opening in his helmet is a short horizontal slit situated where his mouth should be.  I wake up to find him struggling with keeping his head above the water and quickly help him by holding his helmet up. His mouth seems weird to me – it is as if his mouth is filled by a bleached-yellow ball, indeed it seems as though the sphere is a natural part of him. I realize that he must’ve struggled all night and didn’t get to sleep. He might be a bit angry at me. Now I am reminded of the beast and looking around our position, I see 2 smaller fire places quite near us – I quickly run to them and find that the small bag of fried potatoes there is still warm. I shout with all my strength,”HEI!” and soon I am answered by a small group of children running from the forest. Accompaning them are blck government rescue vehicles and a chopper.  I am elated, since I think we have been rescued, but then i see it – a black figure in the distance moving towards the camp where my friend is. The monster walks as if he has a limp, or maybe even a crutch, but it is a monster with the body of a man and from the neck up it has the „head” of a black serpent about 1m long.  Frantically I run to help my friend, but only get there by the next morning. On the road covered with snow I see some woman’s bloody cut off breasts and further on the severed head of my friend lying in the snow. In my head a picture flashes – the monster feasting on my friend. He is eating him behind a table and the different parts are placed on trays of gleaming gold and silver. I hear a voice in my head, but also in my ear (this was the „realest” voice i’ve heard in dreams except mine. I could actually _hear_ it like I was awake. I do not remember this happening before, since before, the sounds in my dreams have been mostly telepathic). It is a male voice with a touch of female in it too and it grates softly, like flowing sand, but in that voice I can feel the most horrible realization – he took enormous pleasure from killing my friend and he is intelligent. Never before in my dreams have monsters been anything but beasts, but behind that voice I could sense the sick malevolent mind of a human. I sense his presence behind me and turn around to face it. At this point I start waking up and realizing that this is a dream, i try blasting it with telekinetic force, but it is too late – I am already awake. 
Why I think it was a NS and not a usual DC:

1) Monsters have never been "intelligent" in my dreams and have never talked to me.
2) I could sense that he was different from my DCs. Especially his voice - it was way too malevolent to be my creation. When it talked to me, I could sense a hidden threat and amusement in his words ( sadly, i don't recall the words themselves, since after waking up i concentrated on remembering the meaning behind them). It was a challenge of sorts - to see if i was actually worthy of its time.
3) Time distortion - c'mon, it was like 100m away and i arrived there the next day? Don't think so. 
4) sick, twisted sense of humor - he _ate_ Anthony Hopkins. he ate Hannibal, ffs! ::?:

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## Sanzora

O.O Yep, sounds like a NS to me... The fact that you could sense them as a person already says a lot. That's one of my key checks to see if my dream is being invaded or not... you can sense the other person and very often what their intentions are (basic good/bad) The fact that you heard them in a different way certainly adds to that. Watch your step friend. And shield yourself when you sleep. They might try again if you say they issued a challenge...

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## anomanderis

> O.O Yep, sounds like a NS to me... The fact that you could sense them as a person already says a lot. That's one of my key checks to see if my dream is being invaded or not... you can sense the other person and very often what their intentions are (basic good/bad) The fact that you heard them in a different way certainly adds to that. Watch your step friend. And shield yourself when you sleep. They might try again if you say they issued a challenge...



There is nothing to fear, but fear itself. For the last year I have stood up to and faced all fears and monsters that have presented themselves to me in dreams and this Stalker is not much different. 
I accept his challenge.

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## AHiddenSaint

> Ummm... Tough question, not sure how to answer that. It depends on the person... They're all human after all - people like you and me. They could be something like Guardians maybe, but not sure about angelic  If you explain how you mean the question maybe I can answer better.



Going back to sleep, but had a download running. Basically In my early teens I had a lot of strange stuff happening to me nothing physical, but mostly dream like. I don't know if you could say I was recruited for anything, but I used to go to my own version of what heaven might look like. There were a lot of others there who accepted me and welcomed me. 

It was during this time too I faught a lot with what I thought of as demons. Keep in mind I was going through a spiritual awakening as well so I do not know if that played a part in what showed up in my dream as a angelic like group. I sort of developed a God complex as well during that time period, but trust me I'm over that part. 

To me if it was NightStalkers I was fighting all I really saw were demons. These demons did have personalilities all to themself as if it wasn't just my dream realm making them up. I was even held capative in some of the dreams and might even say seduced. I have always still felt Angelic like myself before the God like dreams started. Could my own beliefs played part in how I might have been part of it?

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## The Cusp

> BTW, what do they interrogate you on? (Just curious ^_^)



I really wish I could remember, but recalling conversations from dreams has always been a weak spot for me.  Even names of things in dreams are hard for me to remember.  But I'm bad with names in RL as well.

One of the guys interrogating me told me the name of his orginization, then said "You've no doubt heard of us."  I told him I hadn't.  Actually, I don't think I told them anything at all.  I'm not a big talker, my user name means "Action is required for further growth".

And speaking of names, I may have read that wrong, but Sanzora mentioned her dream self had a name.  You have a different name in your dreams?

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## viking-45

but they cant harm you (just dream pain)
...
so its like a little game, fighting and stuff?
sounds awesome 
(anyone can send me a tutorial to dreamwalk?)

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## AHiddenSaint

> So it isn't just me who's had trouble sleeping since posting in this thread? That's an interesting thing...



I sleep fine My dreams seem about normal too me. Of course I'm not challenging anything like others are and respect whatever is out there.

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## Caradon

Bring em on!

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## nzguy

> I wonder what would happen if either a dream walker and a night stalker or two night stalkers who hate each other meet up in your dream.



Will some popcorn to materialize, sit back and watch the fireworks  :smiley: 

But seriously, although I'm a total newbie to the whole LD thing, I would have to say I'm skeptical on this one. 

A few problems I have:

How exactly would a 'Night Stalker' be able to access your dream by using the limited information provided on an internet forum? I mean, seriously, I'm sure they would at least need to know your name.

Why the heck would they want to? There is absolutely nothing to be gained by them - they would simply be setting themselves up for defeat by entering someone _else's_ dream. Surely people have better things to do with their time.

By what means would they 'access your dream'? My understanding of a dream was that it was all made up by your subconscious and therefore was all just in your head.

Finally, I have read on this website time and time again that what you expect to happen in a dream is what will happen. If you spend the time before you go to sleep issuing challenges to a 'sleep gang' (whether they exist or otherwise), you genuinely think they will attack you, and you spend the time before closing your eyes 'gearing up for battle,' then chances are you will end up having a dream in which you are struggling with them.


Like I said, I'm new to LD'ing, but something about this just doesn't add up.

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## Caradon

> Will some popcorn to materialize, sit back and watch the fireworks 
> 
> But seriously, although I'm a total newbie to the whole LD thing, I would have to say I'm skeptical on this one. 
> 
> A few problems I have:
> 
> How exactly would a 'Night Stalker' be able to access your dream by using the limited information provided on an internet forum? I mean, seriously, I'm sure they would at least need to know your name.
> 
> Why the heck would they want to? There is absolutely nothing to be gained by them - they would simply be setting themselves up for defeat by entering someone _else's_ dream. Surely people have better things to do with their time.
> ...



Yup your beliefs creat your experience, In dreams or in life.
If somebody could come into my dream, and try and cause me harm.
I would just stand there, and let them do anything they want to me. They wouldn't be able to do anything! I would just laugh at them.

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## salad funk noir

Hah, quite an interesting thread we have here. I must say it does sound like a very cool concept and I'll be sure to explore it myself, though I am of course a little skeptical- as others have said it does sound a lot like an rpg of some nature =P

If this world does in fact exist, with so many dream walkers involved- why is it that such little to no information can be found regarding it. Is it not possible that you have failed to realise that this alternate reality exists solely in your own mind. 

At the same time I'll keep an open mind about it, I am in fact very interested in dreamwalking so this has very much intrigued me. So cheers to the thread-starter.

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## anomanderis

The thing is - what if you are wrong, Caradon and nzguy ? What if people can enter other people's dreams? If they could, then who would wield more power - the dreamer? Aren't they both dreaming, then? We don't know whether dreams have a "universal matrix" to which they connect to, in essence connecting every dreamer in the world/universe, or are they only in your head? Are they in your head or are all dreams of all dreamers in the same "place", just at different wavelengths? 

I've been sleeping very deeply. Too deeply, matter of fact, since for the last 3-4 days i've woken up 6 hours after going to sleep, which is a bummer, since it inhibits recall. 
This morning i wasn't visited by a NS, but rather had a possible DW/Dream guide experience:

I was with my bro in my parents' bedroom and it was pretty early in the morning, 'bout 6:24, i think. With us there was a man, a storyteller, who was telling me and my bro a story of how contemporary writers use ambiguous and innocent-looking titles to hide the knowledge of astral travel (i think it was astral travel, but can't be sure. It had _something_ to do with altered states of consciousness). He brought us an example, where a book's title had been The Visiting ( The Visit, or smth the like).
Now he proceeded to tell us about a 10-day "training program" that would let us learn this state and my brother lay on the bed, face first, ready to receive the teachings. The storyteller proceeded to speak that the first step was proper digestion. I on the other hand was much more concerned with going to school. I jumped out onto the balcony for a quick breath of the damp cool early-morning air.
Now I am lying on my bed, face first, and as my awareness passes over my brow chakra, i decide to give it a little spin (clockwise, or counterclockwise to an external observer). Immediately, the energy centre bursts aflame - my stimulation causes the the third eye to burn with energy and i remember thinking that maybe finally my brow chakra was going to strobe. The more I used tactile imaging to imagine a clockwise movement of the energy vortex, the more it started burning. It was actually quite painful and i thought that i should go and ask the storyteller for his advice whether to continue the stimulation or leave it be.

Why I think it wasn't just an ordinary DC:
1) During the dream, i noticed that he was different, but didn't pay any attention to it. After waking up i noticed that i had noticed and i could recall that all the time i was doing my stuff and was in the presence of the storyteller - he was always observing me. It wasn't seen, per se, but _felt._ After waking up, I could recall the feeling of him observing me all that time.
2) This goes together with the observing, since if he wanted to observe how lucid or whatever i was, that was probably what he was trying to do with his story about the book. It was vague enough to maybe catch the attention of my "sleeping" mind, but not direct enough to make me lucid. Thus I infer that if it indeed was a DW, he wanted to see how i acted when i was non-lucid.


This second "visitation" left me with some further questions as to when they can enter dreams. Both today's and yesterday's experience took place somewhere between 7-9 in the morning. This leads me to the questions - do they come in the morning, because then rem sleep is longer? 
Because I sleep lighter, thus more easily get lucid? 
Or maybe because they can only enter dreams, when the dreamer is sleeping light? 
Could there be a "location" difference between deep sleep and light sleep. 
Or maybe when you are sleeping lightly, your beacon, your energy signature ( that can be traced by your online user name - answer to a question someone posed above) is broadcasting at a stronger level or maybe during deep sleep it isn't broadcasting at all?
Maybe the DMT tripps of deep sleep make it impossible for the DW's and NS's to enter dreams?

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## Sarin

Jeeze i tell ya what fella's this has been a excellent read for the last 30 minutes, and i think most of you's have convinced me that there are NW and DS out there, cant say i have experienced them to much.

But i am pretty sure in some dreams i have felt them.
Btw dunno if Lex is just crazy

.......................................or maybe a true dedicated Hunter :wink2: 

well anyways i'll keep reading and hopfully i can experience somthing tonight.

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## Vortex

I'm in two minds about this - The Tibetan dream yoga books basically say that in advanced practice the yogi can dreamwalk to receive teachings from masters in distant places or who are now dead. I tend to trust them but if what they say is true then it follows that there can also be NS's and DW's, which is a bit harder to get my head around. 
Last night I remembered 5 dreams, one included me being shown around a dreamscape by a group of people, one of whom even started talking to me about LDing, but I didn't click. The next dream, Me, a DC and his son were being 'hunted', it was quite intense.

Vortex.

----------


## The Cusp

I was going to keep this to myself, but I've decided to share with you all the secrets of dream combat, based on what I call the Law of Attraction in dreams, which I tried to explain here...
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=38059

The Law of Attraction in dreams is as follows:
*Wherever you direct your attention will create detail. The more attention you give something, the more complex it will become. 

*This is the most powerful weapon at your disposal.  To launch any sort of attack requires you to focus your attention on it to give it strength.  But assuming your opponent is a real person, if you can get him to focus his attention on your attack, this will double it's strength, as you are both focusing on it.

Ideally, you want to create a scenario where your opponent is so overwhelmed by the dream, that he sustains your attack completely by himself, with no intervention from you.  Use their own minds agains them.
This shouldn't happen with regular Dream Characters, as they require your attention to exist

Anyone who has experienced lucidity, or has attempted the lucid tasks here at dreamviews knows how easy it is to become distracted from your lucid goals.  *Ultimately it's not about violence, but about who can distract the other first. * Of course violence can be an effective method of achieving this.

For an example of this, you can see this entry of my DJ.  I count this as a possible DS visitation (and a point for me!)
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...&postcount=122


**And if that was a real person who followed me into the river that night , congrats.  Not many people have the balls to brave those waters, even if you were lucid.  I was hoping the busy waters would distract you.  It was a good chase, I was impressed.

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## Caradon

They would have no power over me at all. Like I said, I would do nothing and let them give it all they have. I could easily stand there and take it with out any harm at all. I would just laugh.

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## The Cusp

> They would have no power over me at all. Like I said, I would do nothing and let them give it all they have. I could easily stand there and take it with out any harm at all. I would just laugh.



If you knew what you were up against.  But if they came at you during a regular dream?  I think it most likely end up a dream of being chased or hunted like Vortex described.

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## Caradon

You are right I would have to be Lucid. But I normaly become Lucid during those kind of dreams. Fear is one of my best dreamsigns.

----------


## nzguy

> I was going to keep this to myself, but I've decided to share with you all the secrets of dream combat, based on what I call the Law of Attraction in dreams, which I tried to explain here...
> http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=38059
> 
> The Law of Attraction in dreams is as follows:
> *Wherever you direct your attention will create detail. The more attention you give something, the more complex it will become. 
> 
> *This is the most powerful weapon at your disposal.  To launch any sort of attack requires you to focus your attention on it to give it strength.  But assuming your opponent is a real person, if you can get him to focus his attention on your attack, this will double it's strength, as you are both focusing on it.
> 
> Ideally, you want to create a scenario where your opponent is so overwhelmed by the dream, that he sustains your attack completely by himself, with no intervention from you.  Use their own minds agains them.
> ...



In that case, then wouldn't you focusing your attention on this whole DS thing 'suck you into the black hole' of dreaming about it?

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## anomanderis

But what's so bad about it? I started doing it 3 days ago and for 3 consecutive nights i've had 1 dream per night that was just so amazing, so awesome.

This morning i had another possible encounter- http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...095#post445095

Thanks a lot, Cusp, for letting us know about that aspect of dream combat! I'm sure it'll come in handy soon enough ::rolleyes::

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## The Cusp

> In that case, then wouldn't you focusing your attention on this whole DS thing 'suck you into the black hole' of dreaming about it?



It very well could.  But being aware of that pitfall is a good start in learning how to avoid it.  I'm actively working minimizing such incidents.

It applies equally well to the waking word.  For instance there is a lot of bullshit at my job, and I've been carrying these frustrations around, focusing on them and giving them strength, making them worse than they actually are.  I try to take a step back and let these things go, but it's not always easy.

As an extreme example in RL, consider the emphasis that was recently put on *terrorism*.  The media lavished attention on the issue until it grew into monstrous proportions.  The fear they cultivated was worse than the actual danger.

----------


## AHiddenSaint

I believe I might have been attacked just a little while ago. If it was someone who attacked me in a dream I do not think they are happy by the results. 

It all started when was in the car with my mother. A group of 3 people tried to attack us. At this point my God Defense started to kick in because I started to use lightning attacks from clouds in order to attack the people who were attacking me. The attack seemed to be over at that time. 


Some how they later within the dream kidnapped a family member. I was able to find the family member by pulling up a display screen not attached to anything that mapped her location and my location. My dream self used this map to guide me to a older building. 

There was a relationship between me and the dream world. Basically the more my anger and rage developed the dreamscape itself started to turn violent. Dark Clouds and the feeling that the dreamscape itself would tear apart if I didn't calm down happen. 

Two females appeared one was trying to calm down my anger and another was snickering when she thought I couldn't see her. At this time I told her that would she think 10,000 volts from a lightning hit would be funny? Her look basically changed. 

My attention then turned to the male member of their group asking violently where the person was. At the time I knew the persons name and everything. I woke up just a few minutes ago before I was able to find the person. I do not know if this was a nightstalker or dreamwalker deal, but if it was then please do not attack me. 

If this attack on me in the dreamland was suppose to be cute it wasn't. I respect that if true and others are able too then ok, but leave me out of it right now. I'm not challenging you like anyone else here is so if you got the wrong person by mistake ok. Then again this just could have been a stupid dream no relationship whatsoever to nightstalkers and dreamwalkers.

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## Lex16

Caradon you'll be surprised about what powers the N.S hold over people.
For too long have they been allowed to get away with this and thus I am now a hunter. I never use to be...I was just a normal dreamer, enjoying my dreams.
Then I showed an ounce of talent and then I had N.S and D.W's on my back.
Ask Sanz, both sides have tried to recruit me on numerous occasions. And I have fought both sides.
As for the names I wear proudly as victories...they wouldn't have been there if the damn N.S would stop bugging those I know.
I egg them as much as possible yet they don't attack me, they go for you lot...you know why?
I live up to a name the D.W's gave me, and I do the job really well.
If you wish to know the name ask any Dream Walker or ask Sanz...keep in mind I hate the name and didn't wish for it.

----------


## Sanzora

> And speaking of names, I may have read that wrong, but Sanzora mentioned her dream self had a name.  You have a different name in your dreams?



Yeah ^_^ Its the same one I use here on the forum... Sanzora.  ::D:  Its one of my biggest Dreamsigns. Only my closest friends call me that and if it happens in my dreams then it forces me to do a reality check because no-one else in reality does that, but as that's my DC name, when other DCs interact with me they use it.





> but they cant harm you (just dream pain)
> ...
> so its like a little game, fighting and stuff?
> sounds awesome 
> (anyone can send me a tutorial to dreamwalk?)



They CAN harm you. Don't think that they can't. Dream pain is one thing. But when you are in your mind and someone actually does a psychic attack, that does damage... 

Cant help on the tut... Not a practising DW Im afraid





> How exactly would a 'Night Stalker' be able to access your dream by using the limited information provided on an internet forum? I mean, seriously, I'm sure they would at least need to know your name.



They have monitoring in place... Don't ask me HOW because I don't know but I have on numerous occasions been told that my dreams are being monitored. Something about a shift in vibration when you begin to control it... Please understand that they do not target individuals, but rather their abilities. So it's not a matter of 'Well let's see... Sanz annoyed me so lets pick on her.' Its more like 'We gave a new dreamer on the rise, they could be a threat... Lets see what we can find out about them.' Once they know your frequency it's a matter of aligning and they have access to any info they want (unless you can shield yourself)





> By what means would they 'access your dream'? My understanding of a dream was that it was all made up by your subconscious and therefore was all just in your head.



How does a telepath read one's thoughts? Understand that and Dreamwalking becomes easy enough to understand. That's what they base their methods on I think...





> Finally, I have read on this website time and time again that what you expect to happen in a dream is what will happen. If you spend the time before you go to sleep issuing challenges to a 'sleep gang' (whether they exist or otherwise), you genuinely think they will attack you, and you spend the time before closing your eyes 'gearing up for battle,' then chances are you will end up having a dream in which you are struggling with them.



True, but I wasn't expecting to find my first DW, nor was I expecting my run-ins with half a dozen others. Ice ( guy on another forum) didn't go to bed every night expecting to be hunted, yet he met, confronted and fought numerous DWs and NSs before he even knew Lex and I. Niether did Askand, who for years has been persued by a NS and not know who or what they were. AHiddenSaint wasn't expecting someone to enter his dreams a few nights ago either - he was interested but he didn't issue challanges or mention any thought of trying to make contact with one of the groups. He said to us as the readers of the thread 'If anyone wants to try, I'll be asleep at 23:00 gmt'. It wasn't an expectation. Same with at least 2 other people on this very forum who - for whatever reasons - did not post on this thread that they suspected themselves to be NS victoms(since they didn't post I'll assume they wish to remain annonymous so I won't use their names). So yeah, makes one think there might be a *little* more to this than expected...





> Is it not possible that you have failed to realise that this alternate reality exists solely in your own mind.



Sure it could be. Then some of us must be sharing some form of mass dilusion for us to have the same people ^_^ (Not just between Lex and I)





> If this attack on me in the dreamland was suppose to be cute it wasn't. I respect that if true and others are able too then ok, but leave me out of it right now. I'm not challenging you like anyone else here is so if you got the wrong person by mistake ok. Then again this just could have been a stupid dream no relationship whatsoever to nightstalkers and dreamwalkers.



Sweetheart, I hope they leave you alone... I really do. But you could be right, it might not be them at all, in which case you should be able to focus your thoughts before ed and decide that you won't have anymore trouble  :wink2:  I wish you luck in the event of either.

OFF-TOPIC: @Cusp: you've seen The Secret, haven't you?  :wink2:

----------


## nzguy

It still sounds a bit 'Crouching Kitten, Hidden Hippo', but I guess its possible.

I probably just don't want to believe it  :smiley:

----------


## Sanzora

> It still sounds a bit 'Crouching Kitten, Hidden Hippo', but I guess its possible.
> 
> I probably just don't want to believe it



Then dont  :wink2:  To each his own.

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## AHiddenSaint

> Sweetheart, I hope they leave you alone... I really do. But you could be right, it might not be them at all, in which case you should be able to focus your thoughts before ed and decide that you won't have anymore trouble  I wish you luck in the event of either.



The thing is I do not know my own ability. If we can really cause harm to people in our dream I do not mean to. I don't think I was upset about the dream as a whole, but the fact that I couldn't control my anger. I will admit I'm more advanced in dreaming and may have found a interesting book related to it. 

Picked up The Art of Spiritual Dreaming By Harold Klemp.  This was a random pick up but it's interesting so far it's talking about something called Eckankar and  spiritual relationship with God. What caught my eye though in the 18 pages I have been reading of this book is they are talking about a Mahanta which almost seems like a dream walker that goes into students of his spiritual path and gives them dream signs or advice to help in their spiritual path. 

Again I do not know much about the book I just bought it at half price books when I was looking through their dreaming section on subjects related to lucid dreaming.

----------


## The Cusp

Since my post on Dream Combat, I haven't seen the slightest hint of Night Stalkers in my dreams.  Oh yeah, I'm _that_ good.  And I'm pretty sure they're afraid of me now.

I have, however, been getting phone calls with nobody there that keep messing with my sleep at what seem to be key times.  Usually just as I'm falling asleep.  Any thoughts on that Sanzora?

But anyways, if anyone really believes they are being tormented by some sort of night stalker, then I would like to offer my help.  I don't know exactly how to go about doing that, but that doesn't worry me.  If you really need my help, then I will find a way.

Anomanderis, that limping monster in your dream reminded me of one of mine.  I spiked my indestructable attacker through the bottom of his foot all the way to his knee.  Would be cool if it was the same guy and I actually managed to hurt him.

----------


## AHiddenSaint

> Anomanderis, that limping monster in your dream reminded me of one of mine.  I spiked my indestructable attacker through the bottom of his foot all the way to his knee.  Would be cool if it was the same guy and I actually managed to hurt him.



Am I the only one that has a problem with hurting a person? I know it is a act of defense, but something seems so wrong when the only objective of knowledge is to gain it in order to hurt another person.

----------


## nzguy

> Am I the only one that has a problem with hurting a person? I know it is a act of defense, but something seems so wrong when the only objective of knowledge is to gain it in order to hurt another person.



I'm not sure what the etiquette is around trespassing in someone's dream, but I'd say if they're crazy enough to try to enter someone else's dream to torment them, they deserve all that's coming.

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## Sanzora

> I'm not sure what the etiquette is around trespassing in someone's dream, but I'd say if they're crazy enough to try to enter someone else's dream to torment them, they deserve all that's coming.



No arguement there :p If they look for trouble, I'd say give it to them  :wink2:

----------


## anomanderis

Well, the black serpent hasn't come back. I think it is waiting for me to become more lucid and come searching for him. His time will come.

On another note, probably this was just  a "normal" dream, but does acquiring one of my personal possessions give them extra power over me like better trackable, or smth? I was in chemistry and the substitute teacher stole my glasses that were exact copies of my real ones.

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## AHiddenSaint

> No arguement there :p If they look for trouble, I'd say give it to them



I guess I just have a higher moral or ethical about me. I'm the type that if I had the power would try to save the world. I just can't see using something related to it for evil. Maybe I just am to much of a pacifest, but I took a oath when I was young to do no harm. I didn't have to take that oath, but I took it because I rather protect people and save them then anything. Maybe this is my call out there if people are really Nightstalkers why do what you are doing to harm people? Let's find peace and then bring humanity to higher awaken state. We can all work together in order to awaken others why must Nightstalkers and Dreamwalkers fight? Why can't there be peace?

----------


## Sanzora

> I guess I just have a higher moral or ethical about me. I'm the type that if I had the power would try to save the world. I just can't see using something related to it for evil. Maybe I just am to much of a pacifest, but I took a oath when I was young to do no harm. I didn't have to take that oath, but I took it because I rather protect people and save them then anything. Maybe this is my call out there if people are really Nightstalkers why do what you are doing to harm people? Let's find peace and then bring humanity to higher awaken state. We can all work together in order to awaken others why must Nightstalkers and Dreamwalkers fight? Why can't there be peace?



If I find that answer, I'll be sure to tell you. As for the higher moral, Sweets, don't take me wrong - I use light to heal and work with angels. I work for Peace in my life and can't stand to hurt another. Lex even says I value life too much! But I'll be damned if someone invades my dreams, tries to hurt or even kill me, and I'm gonna lie down and let 'em saying 'Can't we all just get along?'

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## the real pieman

the reason why there cant be peace is simply because there has to be an equilibrium in the world ...a balance between good and evil....right and wrong..this keeps the world going...and because on the surface there needs to be an equilibrium then if you look deeper you will realise what goes on to keep that equilibrium sustained...so in other words there needs to be war for there to be peace...

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## AHiddenSaint

> If I find that answer, I'll be sure to tell you. As for the higher moral, Sweets, don't take me wrong - I use light to heal and work with angels. I work for Peace in my life and can't stand to hurt another. Lex even says I value life too much! But I'll be damned if someone invades my dreams, tries to hurt or even kill me, and I'm gonna lie down and let 'em saying 'Can't we all just get along?'



download about finished then going back to sleep. I think that is what angers me about voilence within my own dreams. I am trying to move past violence within my life as a whole spiritually and on a dream level. It's why I developed a God complex or a Savior complex not for sure which you want to call it. If I had the power to save everyone I would. I've gained a lot of wisdom from my dreams. 

I have the ability to be a warrior, but I rather not fight if it is towards Violence. I guess with me if I have been dreamwalking I rather save people no matter what the cost is to myself. I value others before my own life which is a problem within itself that I work out everyday. I do not know why I took such a high moral look at things, but it has developed over my interaction with others through dreams and through reality itself. 

Oh don't get me wrong either I won't just let anything bad happen to my friends and comrades. I'll protect them with all I can I just try to figure out other means then just the first answer of brute strength. I rather forgive those as well that do me harm because if I can't forgive those that harm then I create a negative being within my ownself that could grow out of hate.

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## Nazzul

This is very fascinating very fascinating.......it reminds me of some recent dreams that i have been having...to any dream walkers or NS hunters I am feeling little hungry tonight.  Dont let the darkness consume you

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## Lseadragon

Has anybody asked a D.W or N.S why they are fighting each other? I'd be interested to hear the result.

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## AHiddenSaint

> Has anybody asked a D.W or N.S why they are fighting each other? I'd be interested to hear the result.



I haven't heard any reason and that is one reason why I stressed Peace as well. You see if we are really dealing with the realm of dreams when confronting N.S. then it is clear that dream images are a source of power. From what I understand about this thread they show others violent images or attack others using evil means. Why not do the reverse and turn everything peaceful? 

My reasoning behind it? If you take away the source then turn it against them by showing peaceful images you can turn a negative being away. What power would they gain over someone who can turn their dark act into a reverse act of kindness. That is the level in which I would like to reach. Instead of causing someone harm it is taking away their pleasure. Peace isn't just a weakness, but instead a means to defeat darkness in a non-violent way.

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## Original Poster

I'm with you HiddenSaint, I believe the best weapon against violence is peace.  But that's in this world, I read through this thread and it seems these factions don't operate on the same level.  The violence I'm talking about stems from feeling victimized.  I believe nearly all violent occurrances in the world are meant as reprocussions from the aggressors feeling victimized, whether those feelings are legit or brainwashed.

These night stalkers are not the case, they are either A. Vampiric (I don't mean big fanged batmen, I mean people who suck the life force out of others either because theirs has a leak in it or in order to prolong their life, typically because they already traded away their soul--I don't necessarily believe in vampires but I've researched enough to accept their possible existence) or B. Just trying to fuck with people.  In either case, they deserve swift justice, nothing more.

I'm sort of speaking theoretically as I have no experience with any dream travellers of any sort.  I remember back when I was first trying to become lucid my dream guide/lucid eye opener came in the form of a girl I really liked, and her presence reflects similarities to DWs as mentioned, but I doubt if it was anything more than my brain, to be honest, and perhaps maybe a little yearning for there to be more to the universe.  Yeah, from what I've read I really, really want this all to be real.  There is *so* much that can be accomplished in our society if we could connect by way of our dreams.

The problem for me is my God Damned dream recall, granted in the last few months I've done absolutely nothing to aide its progress because of business.  I'm quite a powerful lucid dreamer when I'm lucid, I just can't remember, and so my dream signs have all probably switched up a little due to areas in my life that are asking for attention and so I don't even go lucid anymore.

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## Nazzul

Well I just awoke up from a very exciting dream...was it from a dreamwalker? Or maybe it was a Night stalker hunter, they didnt say. I was in an abandond city the buildings around me were made out of stone or some sort of clay material. I relized something was wrong when my flying was becoming harder to control. As I turned around  Isaw two of them ( in retrospec Im thinking they were hunters by the way they lookied plain clothing with a very plain and they looked like males) The two came at me with frightning speed and one was able to hit me to one of the very tall buildings. 

They werent normal dream characters at least ones ive never experinced before they seemed to be able to lightly affect things about me with the difficulty in flying usually I am a very good flyer. Anyway when I hit the building one of them started to unsolidify the building and create it into quick sand. I was able to push away just in time as one of the hunters came rushing forward hitting the building instead of me I guess they werent as good as controling the enviroment  as I was since when the hunters friend hit the building he was quickly sucked in and dissapeard inside....1 down 1 to go. We both flew at each other ready to attack and started a grapple. 

At first he tried to break the dream perhaps as an escape but I was able to keep my concentration and I finnialy had him where I wanted him. In my past dreams I used a shadow arm to consume my opponets but this time it was a bit diffrent. This time I created a shadow that was not like one I have ever seen before it was not a shadow made of air but of luiquid that engulfed him slowley. It was just as effective though if not a bit sticky.

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## FatalForces

One thing about these "night stalkers" that leaves me a bit skeptical is that in all of these "sightings" people claim to have basically kicked their ass and laughed while doing it. If there were truly people out there invading other people's dreams, I don't think that they would be beaten so easily.

Otherwise, why would they continue coming back just to get their asses handed to them again?

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## AHiddenSaint

Had a weird dream last night that could have been a Night Stalker. I do not remember fully how I got captured or why I was at this location, but in the dream I was captured. A Middle age male white can't remember to much detail other then that Had me in a chamber strapped down to a table.

He kept asking me what I knew and tried to implant something to erease or block knowledge of a group. At this point the dream went blank or my view shifted. I didn't feel myself inside my body, but instead felt myself trapped in almost a machine like view looking outside. The same person was there only this time He was operating on a body. The body itself was my own and my chest on down to my stomach areas were exposed with him messing with my body parts and laughing. 

At that point I remember screaming out as this person that felt different from a normal dream character kept laughing. It could have been just a bad nightmare, but it felt different. I felt like I was being questioned for information which I know I never told, but they seemed to have ways to get information without telling. Whatever it was they didn't want me to know something or was afraid of what I knew. Even though there was torment and torture on my part I felt they were more afraid of me then anything else.

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## Original Poster

Yeah fatal I'm getting the same impression.  If it's based on whoever has the stronger mind you'd think 10-1 a trained night stalker would beat some random guy telling people to bring it on.  But many of the pure I-kicked-ass-ones might be regular self-fulfilled dreams.  At least the Cusp seems to be getting his ass kicked every now and then, he just doesn't care.

That's just one of my reasons to be skeptic, another is that the one guy still hasn't sent anybody a check (cue cop outs was right) and my last is that the night stalkers seemingly have no motivation to do what they do, but then again I guess the assholes that make computer viruses and send them around the world don't either so that might be null.  I'm still open to the possibility, and I still really want them to exist, but until these questions are answered their existence is unlikely at best to me.

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## The Cusp

Different factions of  dream walkers and why they do what they do hold no interest for me,  unless they care to volunteer  as cannon fodder.

My main interest is can it be done?  Clearly someone is going to have to attempt to do this eventually.  I've been pretty lazy with my LDing, someday I'll get around to it.  It's been on my list for awhile.

I really can't comprehend these people who claim to be bored of lucid dreaming.  They must have no imagination.

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## AHiddenSaint

Could I have just pulled a dreamwalk last night? This wasn't a violent dream, but instead it seemed like I was within anothers dream. Basically the persons who dream it was asked me at first to stop. Because it wasn't really his dream I had just visited. This seemed like a elderly couple. I also could have been confused as someone else, but the guy knew my real name. 

Whatever it was I actually apologized if I was doing anything without realizing it. My dream self seemed to be telling the person too that I couldn't control whatever was happening. Now here is where it gets strange though It was like watching from above or out of body the man talk to someone else about me disturbing his wife within the dream. 

Now this could have be just a regular dream, but it felt different and my dream self was never there to cause harm, but instead it was like a indirect effect of me being there and the other person feeling my presence. What's ironic is I have no idea who these two were and if I had visited their dreams before I have no knowledge of it. Could a person be dreamwalking without memory of it or being able to control it?

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## The Cusp

This thread is starting to slow down.  It must be because people are starting to realize that these so called Night Stalkers are just a bunch of gutless *cowards*!

Seriously, where you been guys?  Come on back, I'll go easy on you!

_Yes, I'm talking to myself again.  Just in case..._





> Could a person be dreamwalking without memory of it or being able to control it?



If such a thing really is possible, then I would imagine most people do it all the time without realising.

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## Nazzul

It's interesting that when I wrote all those things I had that really cool dream though I havent had any others like it recently I wounder if I just psyched myself up for it before going to sleep or I scared any would be hunters  ::D:

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## EmilySian

If it is possible to dream walk...how do you do it?

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## Eonnn

what is a nightstalker?
and what is a dreamwalker?

I have met a strange dark character before in my lucid dreams where he walked up to me and then when he was standing right in front of me, he touched me with his hand and it felt like he was sucking the life-force out of me. I quickly flew off and luckily he didn't fly after me. This happened after i tried the spinning technique to regain lucidity. I tried the spinning technique again in a different LD a few days later and the same strange dark character appeared again! I stood my ground, and asked him questions as he approached but he didn't reply. He then touched me and i could feel it again, like my life-force was being sucked out of me. A few days later in a different LD i tried the spinning technique again, and low and behold the same strange dark character appeared! this time i teleported elsewhere and to this day i haven't tried the spinning technique since as i'm afraid it will happen again.

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## Vortex

Weird! Sounds like the DreamBorg came to assimilate you.

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## Awhislyle

Once, I had a dream, and there was this bad guy, and we fought. It must have been a night stalker!

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## LucidMike14

who?

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## ♥Mark

It's sure shocking that something weird happened in your dreams. Clearly it is magick.

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## labmonkeywork

I just read this thread (all of it) and I find myself loving it in a familial way. I write this to Sanz, Lex16, AHiddenSaint, Cusp and others. I have read the whole thread. My original post was massive, I have cut it down to something more palatable, though, incomplete. The original is attached.

In your words, I am a "rogue dream walker." I know of no order of DW or NS, only that I may be both.

It all started when I was 5 and I recall nearly nothing before it.

My nightmares were riddled with physical pain and torture. They were also riddled with sexual abuse by women and men - I was about to write more, but stopped myself. It's too hideous to write here or recall.

I would dream nightmares where my body was all but entirely broken, feeling every bone break and my life's blood leak away from me... then I would wake up to hand prints and red marks all over my body - but never bruising or broken bones and always amazed at it. I was always fatigued and felt that even though I was alive I felt a little more dead.

My father used to pray with me by my bed before sleep and after nightmares. He quickly grew tired of this, so I resorted to God to help me, with little to no help in my early years, but later was my great ally as I learned to treat him with respect.

Through my experiences, I learned to fight. Nightstalkers... some were men, some were women, and others yet I couldn't tell you. I found that some consciences were not connected to bodies.

To fight those that had bodies... They would believe anything I made in their mind's existence so long as it was convincing. I would transform myself into animals or make myself grow to great heights and grind their soft bodies into the ground. Sometimes I would make new dreams and they would be... I did so many cruel things...

Those without bodies were impossible to scare. They had no mortal perception of danger unless you went entirely out of your way to convince them of it... and even then it's end success rate was 0% since they would always return.

Between 8 and 10 years old I became like those I was fighting and wreaked havoc on innocents and I could taste their fear. It fed me in a sickening way. I felt power over them because of their fear.

When I was 10 I realized what I had become. After failing to commit suicide when I was 11 and beginning to rely upon my God more than ever, I decided to fight "hell fire" with "heavenly light". I wanted and want to be a good man. I want to save that which is good in this world: a loving heart, an innocent child.

I often find myself guided to dreams where someone is under the same torment as I was and then I free them. But woe to the oppressor. Their torment is mine to give to them.

I can't look at forums to often anymore. Too conscience of the fact that I cannot help to walk into others dreams and dominate them. Am I a demon? Am I an angel? I can only think that some of the evil has rubbed off on me. Even though I love God, I am unfortunately of the occult.

After all of this, I just want to know what you think since what I write has truly happened to me and I mourn it. I cannot celebrate it and seek no pride only forgiveness.

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## anomanderis

that is so utterly heartbreaking and cool at the same time ::?: .
Through suffering we become better and in that light we must perceive our enemies - they are our teachers, as sick, twisted, sadistic or psychotic they may be. They make us strive to be better, be it out of a desire for vengeance or not.

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## The Cusp

Wow, how about that Catholic guilt?

That's some post Lab Monkey.  Those dreams you described as a child are pretty disturbing.  I hadn't given much thought to the extreme depravities available to a dream walker.

I wouldn't feel too bad about it.  Somebody had got to stand up to the bullies of the world.  All those damn pacifist hippies who take every opportunity to gloat about how they abhor violence wouldn't be able to stroke their egos like that if it wasn't for people like you, LabMonkey.

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## Numner

I just wish me and my friend could do Lucid and Dream Walking,it would be fun yo do whatever we wanted together(NOT that >_<)It would be awesome.....

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## labmonkeywork

Good points.... even though I'm not Catholic  :wink2:  I really like your point about the "damn pacifist hippies". That made me laugh hard, but it's so true!

anomanderis, I sure wish there was a better way to learn... but I'm thinking that for my stubborn self that there was no other way.

Hey Numner, I was born into nightmares like many others. What helped me become lucid over my dream (become my own master of it) was drowning in the dream and allowing myself to breathe water/mud. If you feel up to it you can give it a try. Don't pick a place too shallow. It was my first step towards ultimate dream control.

Me when I was younger, I was dragged down a lot in water (where you can still swim if free) and mud (where you can't even budge). My dream and physical body would hold it's breath to the point of passing out... very dangerous in a dream state. I had to learn how to breathe in these circumstances because I couldn't always wake myself back up.

So, what I taught myself to do is relax and breathe in the watery substance. It is not easy... or at least it wasn't for me at first. Feeling all the bubbles and water sting my throat and nose makes be gasp and choke. Mud is worse... breathing in the stuff is like asking to die. But hey, if it gets my physical body breathing again then I'm good.

If you can get past the fear and feel your physical body getting O2 again. Then you've done it. Congratulations!! 1st step towards dream domination. Rise up out of that water or mud. Don't swim! Just rise. After some practice you may learn how to fly. But one thing at a time... Even when I prepare to fly, I lift my right leg first and pull it under my left, feel my center of gravity, and then without letting my center of gravity fall I lift my left leg to fold it in my right. Once I'm levitating... then it's on. Go ahead and make a shield around yourself that isolates you from extreme air speed so you can actually break the sound barrier. It's quite a thrill. Just let the images stream to you like a river of data.

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## Lunalight

This is really one of the more interesting threads.  I'd like to learn ow to dream walk, but I have to ask if it's similar to dream sharing?  Since the dream walkers are kind of the 'good guys' does the person whose dream it is know they are there?

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## Awhislyle

How is it that one can distinguish between nightmares and nightwalkers. I would say the majority of the 6 billion people on this planet had a number of nightmares when they were younger. And additionally since one must not only be very skilled at lucid dreaming but also then able to transmit your thoughts to others then while maintaining lucidity wreak havoc in their dreams. This doesn't seem like a skill that millions of people could possibly have while there has been NO significant real research on the topic while things like a yeti and bigfoot and the monster of loch ness are well publicized. 
So, if this is even happening at all. Why is it that every person in this thread who has had a nightmare can believe they are being attacked by nightstalkers. I would have believe that less than 1% probably much less than 1% of people could ever be attacked by a nightstalker.
So, my question is, how can any of us believe we have been attacked by a night stalker? Nightmares are inherently scary things, just because there was an "entity" in a dream doesn't make it a nightwalker does it? How should we identify out nighstalker attackers?

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## labmonkeywork

Hey Awhislyle,

I've had nightmares all of my life, and I must agree with you that some are simply nightmares and others have these "night stalkers".

Starting when I was little I had to become extremely aware in my dreams so I could stop these nightmares. (Sometimes before a bad night dark red clouds would enter my room... believe me if you will). 

To learn how to stop these nightmares, I would kick in my lucidity hard to simply analyze everything. I can see which characters are simply projections of myself (and they still may have an exceedingly rich and interesting personalities) and those not controlled by me (NS/DW). There were many nightmares that were simply products of myself. I learned how to subdue these and eventually pushed them to extinction... and then the rate of really bad dreams with NS kicked up.

NS/DW simply have their own will, and instead of controlling them you have to coax them to do things or force your will upon their own (you can force them if you have superior will power whether it be your dream space or another's but they will fight you - your wills will clash). You can tag them how you will. I believe some people see auras, but I do not. I simply know because I am aware, and I tag them in my memory. To become aware took me many years of solid practice.

Another important point to make, your dreams are made with rules - rules created by the original dreamer. You. If you are lucid, you become cognizant of these rules and you can change them at will. The dream characters you possess will also be governed by rules you have given them - each with their own ruleset. NS and DW willingly break these rules for bad or good, respectively, and exercise their will to make your dream evil or beautiful, respectively.

In summary, you have to be aware of your control and what is not in your control and tag everything. You can do it! (possibly flawed statement). You can have full control over yourself if you seek it. Awareness takes confidence, practice, and a "multi-threaded" mind (you may want to have some practice with real-time strategy games or difficult work-management projects in real-life).

PS 1 -  You may find that there are characters (from you) born out of the recesses of you mind that you don't have full control over, but they are still you.

PS 2 - Sure, I've made mistakes tagging, but my error rate is much smaller these days.

PS 3 - If you meet the person you shared a dream with in real life - then you know whatever happened to you was "real". If they were a NS, refrain from striking them.

PS 4 - Good luck!

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## Scatterbrain

Hi there.
I've been lurking around the forums for a few months and after reading this thread I decided to finally register myself so I could make a little challenge. :p

I don't mean to be offensive but this "good vs evil" thing really sounds to me like some kid's fantasy.
I'm challenging anyone here who claims being able to "dream walk" to come into one of my dreams, in the dream I'll tell you a secret word that later can be posted here as proof.

Honestly I doubt anyone will fulfil the task but it would be interesting if it happened.


PS: I sleep approximately between 2.00 AM and 12:00 AM (GMT).

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## labmonkeywork

I don't take offense because very few people believe me and for me I know it's not fantasy due to my experience. If you live through it repeatedly and study it intimately for yourself with countless evidence... denying that part of your reality is insane.

Your little challenge is a little insane though. You are expecting for nothing to happen, and that's probably what will happen.

1st - You doubt so you won't make it to a "sharable" dream.

2nd - None of us know who you are so it would be nearly impossible to track you down. I can find my twin brother... from time to time. I know him intimately! Just think of how difficult it would be for me to find you!! I don't know your "address" of sorts or your thought patterns.

To be fair to your doubt, I'll give it a try. But say it between 3 and 5 times for me.

If I go random... I have a 1 in 6.6 billion chance of finding you. Those are very bad odds.

By the way... you may want to check your hours of sleeping. Nobody sleeps 14 hours a day unless they are sick.

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## LucidInCuB!zt

muahahahahaha a nightwalker in my dream uuuuuuuu how cuddling...its like handling a pup knowing that everytime i become lucid i release lots of powers into my body that i can manipulate perhaps like thrown fires balls at em or massively teleporting to cause confusion among him lol..its much like a playground to me exactly  lol create demons to hunt u{nightstalkers} awsome im in for the challenge with u even make it through my dream gates  ::evil::

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## LucidInCuB!zt

im quite an experienced  lucid dreamer and i was wondering how u can learn to Bcome a dream walker or night stalker and i promise that if i learn, it'll only be for testing purposes. i mean no harm...either if i encounter a night stalker in my dream, i have skills like flying and using telekinesis to manipulate and shove him around.  ::evil::

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## Scatterbrain

labmonkeywork

I do agree with you that it would be pretty hard to enter a dream of someone you just met on the internet.
Although I didn't read every single post in the thread, I got the idea that some people were claiming it was possible and even that some "dream stalkers" use this forum to find victims.

I like to keep an open mind regarding shared dreams, but this thing about factions and battles just seems far-fetched.
If shared dreaming is possible, it shouldn't be as simple and easy or allow such things as described in this thread imo.

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## LucidInCuB!zt

dude what are the benefits of being a hunter..i mean do u use any magical powers to hunt ur preys{nightstalkers ect.} i was just wandering about this whole role of night stalkers, dream walkers, N hunters...i want to learn aleast 2 of the 3 for testing benefits only no harm well be done by my hands...i just want to be given some info on the whole situation...it b kindfull of  ::bowdown:: u

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## AHiddenSaint

Do not know if this was a regular dream or someone entered my dream, however, I thought I would post what happen about 2 to 4 hours ago. Yes I was asleep at this time I just woke up around 2pm. Well I was having a dream about the military which was weird. It was basically going through classes and training type stuff. 

Half way through the training part we were all in a room and then it started to get a little bit freaky. Scorpion type bugs that were larger then normal ones were appearing in the room out of no where. I had felt something crawling up my back on the spine area, but nothing was there. Someone was in the dream laughing at what was happening to me and others. When I went to talk to the person they got angry. At one point they turned into a stream of small black dust that tried to swarm me, but I was using some move to push them back. 

I do not know if it was this time that I woke up, but this dream lasted through two dream cycles. When I orginally woke up to use the bathroom I was brought back within the dream. At this point they were about to shave people's head. My dream self really didn't want that to happen for some reason so tried to escape. The weirdest way escaped was created a tornado and traveled through it although I was still on this complex. 

Here is the oddest part THE SAME PERSON FROM BEFORE THAT WAS LAUGHING AT ME WAS THERE AGAIN. He was pissed that he couldn't find me. It almost seemed like he had a lock on me because each move I tried to make in order to escape the person seemed to copy only one move behind. This person was screaming. I did escape by waking back up. 

After again using the bathroom and coming back. I decided to push myself on sleep even though I really didn't feel I needed to sleep anymore or was tired I forced myself to sleep just to try to see if could go to that same dream again. The ironic thing is I was able to so that makes it 3 different dream cycles entering the SAME DREAM landscape only this time I seemed to be the one in control. 

The people in the dream were still looking for me and trying to figure out what happen. If this was just a dream then it means nothing, but here is what was odd. My dream self was leaving hints I was still by just to see what happen. I was effecting people who were trying to get a drink. The whole time telling my dream self DO NOT HARM PEOPLE. At first when in it did harm I did try to push back whatever pain had been caused. It was almost a revert in the dream because it went back to normal.  

This is where it got even more strange though. They knew what was happening and were laughing about it. Whoever these people were knew that I was still around, but couldn't figure out what was going on. They knew I wasn't causing them harm, but instead played into it. They even were having a converstation about it and knowing someone was there because of another event that happen before. 

These dreams were either produced by me or something did happen last night. I will admit I was off guard last night as well because of stuff that happen in real life. The night before I only had 2 to 3 hours of sleep. I slept from 11pm to 2pm. I would have been up earlier , but I felt something going on there and I wanted to push myself even if it was my own mind creating it to explore and just see what would happen. I still can not believe I had 3 dreams over the same night about the same place and same complex. Plus it was weird the same dream characters that weren't related to me were there.

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## AHiddenSaint

just to add a note yes that was about 15 hours of sleep for one night.

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## labmonkeywork

Hey Scatterbrain, I agree with you wholeheartedly! I think we're more on the same page now.

It's near impossible to find a specific person without identifying information. As far as those wishing to solicit challenges with night stalkers... well, they are going to have frustrating fun finding the night stalker. Plus, I think most people's experiences with "Night stalkers" are really fighting themselves - like they are spawning their own enemy and beating the crap out of it, but I can't say for sure.

Also, the factions, battles, etc.... I have no clue if there is an organization or hierarchy. Walkers, hunters, stalkers... I used the verbiage so I could explain to others. The hierarchy that is posted on this thread could be a complete fabrication... but honestly I don't know. All I know is that there is good and evil just like people can be good or evil (not necessarily good and evil factions... Thanks DoomedOne).

It's a very deep world that we live in... It's as deep and high as we'll allow ourselves to explore.

Hey LucidInCub!zt, are you sure you want to limit yourself to magic? You really don't have to utter anything or classify yourself to any limited number of powers. If you are dreaming lucidly and "without bounds" there is absolutely nothing that can stop you. Ignorance! Bah! If you know your domain and you know yourself, there is little ignorance left to contend with. Stalker, hunter, walker... I know of no benefits. If you fully rule yourself... you are limitless in this place.

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## the real pieman

for those who want to attempt dreamwalking or shared dreams, i created a guide a while ago on my successful experiences......feel free to use it....WARNING! USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK.....DREAM WALKING OR SHARING COULD BE DANGEROUS BECAUSE IT IS A RELATIVELY NEW THING WHICH HAS NOT YET BEEN THOUROUOGHLY TESTED....USE IT BUT IF U DO THEN I AM NOT ACCOUNTABLE FOR ANY ERRORS THAT YOU MAY OCCUR DUING THIS TIME..... USE AT YOUR OWN RISK:

here's the link: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=34889

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## Original Poster

Scatterbrain, I made a similar gripe, and someone else on this thread promised to give a 1000 dollar check to anyone that entered his dream, but everybody claiming they could dream walk just copped out.  He even had the secret word idea, I believe.

It's not really good verses evil, though, if you study the truth behind all the interpretations people are giving.  Again I have no experience, and until I receive a visitor nor will I ever.  I keep telling myself to scream out for them when I go lucid but I forget.

But they aren't two good or evil factions, they way I see it described if I read between the lines.  The night stalkers are regular people, either addicted to causing fear or actually having discovered a way to vampirically dream walk.  Though causing fear is a kind of vampirism in itself, so the idea is they are metaphorical vampires with their own parasitic motivation for what they do and their own irrational justifications to keep them from stopping.

Well, whenever people start coming at people sideways the result is typically the same, another group of people unite together to stop them in complete and utter futility, but cause enough irritation that the previous group, like most evils of the world, is so encased in the false reality they invented in order to justify their addiction they would reactionarily unite.

And all the remaining groups would be rogues, perhaps other factions formed as well, factions are pretty natural as being the early beginnings of civilization, the dreamscape is the new frontier, and all the colonials have chosen to unite together in order to become stronger.

All, of course, is supposition.  I still have no proof of their existence but I like theoretical ideas.

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## Scatterbrain

> dude what are the benefits of being a hunter..i mean do u use any magical powers to hunt ur preys{nightstalkers ect.} i was just wandering about this whole role of night stalkers, dream walkers, N hunters...i want to learn aleast 2 of the 3 for testing benefits only no harm well be done by my hands...i just want to be given some info on the whole situation...it b kindfull of u



Are we talking about lucid dreaming or some new mmorpg?


DoomedOne

According to many people here, factions were formed by "dream walkers" (without they having to meet in waking life) and those same DW contact people (the so-called recruits) also without meeting them first in real life.
If it is so, then the self-proclaimed DW/DS/rogues/mages/warriors/priests/etc shouldn't have any problems in fulfilling my challenge, or any other for that matter.

Being on a different time zone is a lame excuse.
I can say I'm a lucid dreaming "pro": I discovered it when I was about 7 (long before reading about it on the internet) and today I have lucid dreams almost everyday (every single day if I actually make some effort), but I don't have shared dreams.
I'm guessing someone who can have shared dreams (if those exist) at will must be a guru in lucid dreaming, and if even I can lucid dream in the afternoon if I put my mind to it, I don't see why a person who can share dreams wouldn't be able to.
A certain user even offers money to whoever completes the challenge, so why not?


PS: The spell checking doesn't seem to be working, sorry for any mistakes. xP

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## The Cusp

> I can say I'm a lucid dreaming "pro":



Well then why are asking other people to come to you.  Why not try it yourself?

Of course the other person would have to remember the dream as well, and what are the odds of that?  How many dreams do we forget each night?

And another problem, different people would likely interpret a shared dream in their own way.  As an example, my brother and I both dreamed of the bushes in front of my grandmother's house.  Where he saw a snake, I saw a dragon's neck.  THat wasn't a shared dream, we just happened to dream of the same place and strikingly similar content.   So you can see how differences in the dreams could arise.

I don't think it would be such an easy thing to prove even if you were good at it.  

If I ever get the hang of it, it's atomic dream wedgies for everyone!

The biggest evidence to support nasty people visiting my dreams is that my most ruthless, competent, indestructable dream foes sometimes get distracted like they lost lucidity and forgot about me.  I've got 15 years worth of dream journals, and I'm telling you that's not normal.

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## Scatterbrain

> Well then why are asking other people to come to you. Why not try it yourself?



Hey I'm not the one who claims being able to go into other people's dreams and kick their asses.
In case you haven't noticed, I'm trying to prove this "war" is a fantasy, not the other way around.

By the way,
If I'm not mistaken, previously you posted about a fight you had with a "dream stalker" in a shared dream right? Now about the dream of the bushes, you say it wasn't a shared dream.
Exactly how do you know when you are sharing a dream?

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## The Cusp

> By the way,
> If I'm not mistaken, previously you posted about a fight you had with a "dream stalker" in a shared dream right? Now about the dream of the bushes, you say it wasn't a shared dream.
> Exactly how do you know when you are sharing a dream?



I only said it could have been.

I also made a challenge to any dream walkers, but not with the lure of money or for the sake of proof.  My bait was to lure them in with the promise of a worthy dream fight.  I was consistantly cocky with my posts, and did my best egg them on at every opportunity.

And for a few weeks, it appeared I was getting what I had asked for.  After a few initial butt whoopings, I got used to fighting back, and then things got really fun. 

 Now I'm too lazy right now to be a lucid master, but I've been at this long enough than even me regular dreaming self is not without a trick or two.  After I came up with my dream fighting theory, I consistantly overwhelmed them, and that was the last I saw of anything suspicious.

I'm not discounting the possibility I induced those dreams myself.  I'm certainly prone to obsessing on a subject and dreaming about it for extended periods.  There were just certain things about those dreams that didn't seem right, and I'm not willing to ignore the issue untill I've explored it further.  

Guess you had to be there. :wink2:

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## AHiddenSaint

> I'm not discounting the possibility I induced those dreams myself.  I'm certainly prone to obsessing on a subject and dreaming about it for extended periods.  There were just certain things about those dreams that didn't seem right, and I'm not willing to ignore the issue untill I've explored it further.



That is why I do not claim anything. With what I just posted about the dream I had or series of dream I do not know if I caused the last part to happen because we were talking about this subject to happen here. The people within my last dream seemed to be joking about things and mention the dreamwalking, but don't know if it was real or just me. It was weird to have 3 different dreams within the same dream setting.

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## Sandform

Sounds alot like a variation of that movie freddy crouger, I'm not sure which number. but its the one where freddy has a daughter I think.  The one where the kid loses his memory, and ends up in a semi-orphanage.

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## the real pieman

> Sounds alot like a variation of that movie freddy crouger, I'm not sure which number. but its the one where freddy has a daughter I think. The one where the kid loses his memory, and ends up in a semi-orphanage.



it was nightmare on elm street 6 : freddy's dead....personally i think it was the worst out of the lot and thats saying something......especially cos i think freddy krueger is the best horror villain of all time

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## durza2016

Wouldn't it be easier to met up on the astral plane. 

Just saying.

Also, we should have this topic "stickied" or we should try to experiment with this. you know set a date and everyone will try to met up. ::D:

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## Sandform

I want to meet them heh.  I did have a wierd dream where people were in a stadium watching me and this woman fight, she was kinda fun, lol my journal has details... but after we dream dueled, she kicked my ass, and was returned to the spectators area, where these creepy middle-aged me kept coming on to her cause she bestest me in the dream. lol too bad i'm fairly certain that it was all in my head.  =(

Edit: actually now that I think about it it seems a rather bit like being pulled from a dream.  I was at a point in my dream, and then nothing happened, and I was in a new place, fighting the chick.  Still, it was probably in my head heh.

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## labmonkeywork

That makes me sad that some of us posting are under the impression that if they themselves have not experienced dream sharing that it must needs be impossible. The reasoning is flawed and has been used to prove that air does not exist because it cannot be seen. The reasoning: one person cannot measure or experience a phenomena then it must consequently be impossible for all others - a very suffocating view of our natural universe if you ask me. However, using the right instruments, trials can be made and experiments conducted to verify (either prove or disprove) a claim.

Unfortunately with dream sharing, our measurement device is the mind and we (as humans) can only depend on the testimony of those who have done it before. Those who have tried their experiment many times and succeeded where others are not capable.

I want to address the question of when you know if it was actually a shared dream...

Since I have made contact near everywhere on the globe, the only good way I've found is to read forums and analyze dream writings and look for your own. You have to be careful, though. If the dream as it is written is not detailed enough - ask for details. Make sure progression of events, specific tools, colors, atmospheres, weather, scenarios, attitudes, "everything you can possibly think of" especially you (your character) is the same. Then you can reasonably say, "Yes I have had a shared dream".

Don't forget! I've talked to some of my fellow dreamwalkers in person. It is usually emotional (especially for me) since it is such an intimate connection, and I've always hated accusations of being a liar.

To aid my experiment, I was strict and I would decide to choose to be an aggressor, savior, or whatever in these dreams. That way I would not delude myself as to always being a savior or a form that of a devil or something plain. It would also give me a series of details and identifying marks to look for.

However, I don't like reading another's dream anymore simply because it's enough for me to know that I typically do it all the time and I should work at being pure and good at heart. You know... give hope. I stopped reading dreams years ago after I made a dream from scratch and invited many to it and almost hurt someone really bad when I wanted them to know who I was... but I do like these forums for conjecture.

However, I think I've found it - an indescribable feeling that tells me I am not alone. That someone is seeing and responding to my presence, and it is not me.

So many minds. So many minds are out there and everyone is different: shallow and deep, well spoken and autistic, etc. durza2016 speaks of an astral plane. What is the good definition of an "astral" plane? I have no common language for my experience - only coined terms.

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## LucidInCuB!zt

hearing it from other's and including some research, i believe the astral plane is sort of another dreamworld actually..meaning its much higher than a normal dream itself...its very weird but thats where occasionally the good and the nasties are relocated u know like i believe dreamwalkers and nightstalkers have to go through the astral plane to get into another person's dream..its basically like there are many doors where each holds a dreamer's dreamland and u enter the door without the other dreamer's concent..i believe if encounter a weirdo in the astral plane turn back because he might try and harm u..be aware of ever going there..anyways there are many ways u can try to dream walk....i 

read:u can create a tunnel while in your lucid dream where u look at the far end of the tunnel and imagine that the person u want to kind of like stalk for example, is in the other side. Between u and that person far ahead, meaning  what holds the tunnel together, is the astral plane itself.. When the moment u step into the tunnel, ur in the stral plane itself..That's when you're pretty much at risk because u donnot know what's gonna popout in the middle of the tunnel far ahead..didnot mean to scare anyone but thats what sofar i've heard and hopely i can lucidly try it(this i actually got it from  a website illustrating the whole dream walking thing) ::D:

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## durza2016

I heard that the astral plane is a projection of all our thoughts, because we dream they are in there too

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## AHiddenSaint

Could dreamwalkers steal personal information through dreams? Like say where a person lives?

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## The Cusp

> Could dreamwalkers steal personal information through dreams? Like say where a person lives?



I doubt it.  RL details are as diffucult to remember as dreams are.

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## LucidInCuB!zt

> I doubt it.  RL details are as diffucult to remember as dreams are.




noone knows. eventually the nighstalker could observe a victims sorroundings to notice that person's destination.. its common due to the fact that we mostly dream in nearby places like our porches homes ect.. leave it to curiosity :Cool:

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## The Cusp

> noone knows. eventually the nighstalker could observe a victims sorroundings to notice that person's destination.. its common due to the fact that we mostly dream in nearby places like our porches homes ect.. leave it to curiosity



I have a feeling that each individual observer would interpret the same dream differently.  For instance, a gruesome dragon that I see, might be seen  more cartoony  by a Pokemon fan.   I think that would make specific intel gathering difficult, other that building a psychological profile of sorts.

The same way that if you ask different people who walked down the same street what they saw, you would get different responses.  The bird watcher would tell you what birds he saw.  A child might tell of a playground they passed.  I'd tell you about that girl in the tight skirt.

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## AHiddenSaint

> I doubt it.  RL details are as diffucult to remember as dreams are.



I had a sheet of paper for no reason appear that had my name and address there. There was another person trying to see the information in my dream. I remember trying to change the info and name before  they saw.

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## 27

Well if people can accually come into your dreams just by reading your posts I have to say, I'd be willing to join whatever faction gave me a hand with my recall and lucidity. Do you think thats possible?

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## Wavefunction

I don't see how they could come into a DV members dream because of posting here. None of the member pages have address/real name. So how would a dream walker or night stalker use this forum to get victims?

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## LucidInCuB!zt

> I don't see how they could come into a DV members dream because of posting here. None of the member pages have address/real name. So how would a dream walker or night stalker use this forum to get victims?



They could  use the astral plane to get to your dream i can asure:p could be using your nick to communicate to your mind since your nick is already remembered by your subconscious and conscious mind

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## Carôusoul

Has anyone seen the russian film Nightwatch?

It involves the 'Nightwatch' and 'Daywatch' who are people with special powers. The Daywatch keep the Nightwatch in check. cus obviously night is bad and day is good. ::rolleyes:: 

Sounds oddly familiar.



I'm willing to believe in dream sharing, if evidence is provided. Of which I have never seen any btw [substantial].


But the whole underground cults battling really sounds like fantasy. Copied almost, from countless fantasy stories.



Did anyone suceed on the offer of $1000 dollars?


Thought not.






Also, assuming that these dark and light forces are waging a war in our minds, If they can obtain real life information such as where you live, I'm all for it. 
 The likelihood is their overweight and kinda lonely. It's like being in an MMORPG or whatever. It's a way for them to forget who they really are with these probably tall handsome muscular characters they are in their dreams. 


I'm not knocking the idea of dream sharing. It's perfectly possible. The whole war thing just sounds like escapism and making importance in life. Giving point to it.

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## Ne-yo

You guys crack me up... NightStalkers and DreamWalkers..Teheheh... Give me a break.

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## The Cusp

You guys are blowing this whole light vs. dark thing way out of proportion.  The only people who keep bringing up that aspect are the ones looking to poke fun.  

In online video games, you will always find "griefers", people who delight in tormenting others.  Night Stalker is as good a name as any for this sort of behavior  in shared dreaming. 

And that 1000 dollar challenge is a load of crap for so many reasons.  What if the challenger has poor dream recall, and just doesn't remember?  What if he's as stubborn and doubting in his dreams and doesn't want to give you his secret phrase?

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## LucidInCuB!zt

The cusp has a point there and as for you Ne-yo, it could be possible for those with the mind to it to induce with this phenomena like Monks ect.. In this world possibilities are almost endless and you should never jump to conclusions too early :wink2: have a nice day ::rolleyes::

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## Carôusoul

Alright. stop calling it  a war then.

Just dicks abusing dream-sharing.

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## AHiddenSaint

> Alright. stop calling it  a war then.
> 
> Just dicks abusing dream-sharing.



It is a war and you must decide which side you are on. If you do not join my army then we will not let you have free beer night. Look who is to say there isn't a war? The matrix seemed all peaceful and calm till you looked outside the matrix. Not everything is always as it seems, but to deny the possiblity is to deny everything else. Some people still think the astral plane isn't real. Others think that OBE's are just all in the mind. Some don't even believe in lucid dreaming.

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## Carôusoul

I'm not denying it might be happening.

Am just saying its a kinda rubbish war. Cus like, whatever happens in it makes no difference really. just some fights the outcome of which mean nothing. Maybe you'd like it to be a war that meant something, so that you feel your living out fiction of some sort, but even if it is true, it's hardly important. It's just like a game.





And please please don't say anything like if you get hurt in a dream you get hurt in life. Because THAT, really is just plain untrue.

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## labmonkeywork

I agree with Carousoul partially in the fact that I believe most people's encounters are just like gaming... no physical impact on reality.

However, what if your dream is so "real to you" that they rival or exceed the clarity of normal life. I'm talking about dreams where I'm lucid, I know it's a dream and I can change things, but it is full of life that is not my own creation. It can be really beautiful.

Unfortunately for me, I from time to time get in rough matches in my dreams and I wake up with red marks on my body. Fortunately never broken bones or heavy bruising, which was the encounter in my dream.

Also, another case in point. You can scare the living daylights out of people if you put your mind to it and effect them in real life. For instance, I met a "night stalker" in a dream that was about 50-60 years old and he was abusing little girls from 5-10 years. I (being a victim in my early life) decided to put an end to it immediately. I stripped him of his connection to the girls and surrounded his mind with mine to a point of "suffocation". He pushed at me calling me demon or having the power of the devil. I wanted to rid him of his desire to commit evil, but it was far too ingrained in his mind. So, I decided to push him out of existence by incurring death. I felt his heart race and thump louder and louder. It felt like it was about to burst.... And then he woke up a beaten, broken, and guilty man. I must confess that I still feel sorrow for trying to kill him by heart attack. I should have been in more control of my hatred.

By the way... I use terms "night stalker", etc., loosely because I don't know of any real factions. All I know is that there are "dicks" and "OK People"  ::D:

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## G007

So maybe its been answered already but I didn't catch it. I have been skimming through this post because though I find so hard to believe a big part of me insists I read on. 

My questions then are:

1) How can you tell the dif between a DW and a NS? 

2) What is your BEST defense in the case that you are confronted by one? Assuming an NS because DW are good right? 

And not that you'd want to give away your fighting techniques because I imagine thats the point..to overpower as many NS's as you can and you dont want to reveal your secrets...but lets say you don't want any part of this and you just want to enjoy LD'ing for the fun of it...when suddenly you are approached by an NS and you are able to recognize that they are a NS? 

What then? What could be your best defense move...and dont say wake up because that's just no fun.  :Sad:

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## Jdeadevil

Well quite a while ago I got told I was going to be eaten. But then again if you're curios then read this nice little spoiler. (it was today)


*Spoiler* for _Reason_: 



I shall never accidently reveal to anyone that I'm made out of Chocolate, ever again...

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## Octavii

i think ive seen these nightwalkers...what did they look like to you? were they like black shadows...because if so...when i saw them they attacked me

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## Octavii

> I can only say this...IDIOT!!!BAKA!!!!MORON!!!!
> For now I think this is enough on that.
> 
> Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself.
> 
> You have no idea how many people that are either Night Stalkers or Dream Walkers are actually on this thread at this moment. God and I thought I had bravado when I walked into their camp, LOL!!!
> You got guts, I like that and I hope you kick some serious ass but I warn you, the N.S are masters of causing pain you can't even begin to comprehend...but hell...there are so few dreamers that have the guts to stand up to them I will take my hat off to you.
> Welcome to my war.
> 
> ...



How exactly are you a nightstalker hunter...im not jugding! merely interested is all. how do you know if you have a nightstalker in your dream? will it be someone you regognise or not? will they look human? because i had a dream where lots of these balck shadows attacked me (they were laughing) and i had the sensation of falling and i awoke, unable to move...sleep paralysis...it was very scary

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## labmonkeywork

For me... Identifying a DW or NS is a two step process.

1st step - Identify the character's source.

The character could literally be anything: person, tree, shadowpeople, water, sky... anything. The main question is: Is it you or not? If you've created the character on purpose then you don't have to test. If you're like me, you sometimes create characters from your (sub)consciousness. The way to check is to grab it's mind and look at it. It should comply. If all you perceive is you or a part of you... well then it's you. If it resists and you perceive something else, then it's not you. You've just encountered somebody!!

Note: The trick is to be subtle enough so that you don't piss them off in the identification process. When I first started, I had to get really close and dominate them. Unfortunately, that is perceived as an act of aggression. Since then, I'm pretty good at simply "tuning in" and "reading" them.

2nd step - Is it a DW or an NS?

Although I know of no hierarchy, structure, or leaders; my simpleton definition is that DW is an OK person and an NS is a total jerk. <Though I really want to know what other people have witnessed> They can appear like anything and you can only really judge them by what they do.

Typical actions for DW - helping others, recreation, sparring, learning, etc.
Typical thoughts for DW - health, life, peace, freedom

Typical actions for NS - rape, murder, bullying, destroying, etc.
Typical thoughts for NS - lust, blood lust, death, dominance

Black shadows are popular for NS, but I turn myself into a black shadow at times to hide in the dark (usually I go invisible). Why black you ask? Answer: So I don't glow.

Warning: It's a big world. You won't be prepared for everything you see. Just keep an open mind and stay in control of yourself. Let your fear pass through you (like the quote from "Dune").

To help those of you who see black wraiths that are NS... First of all, calm yourself. They can hurt you if you fear them or not, but if you are calm you have control over yourself and you can beat them. Oftentimes, they're just scary. Mitigate their power over you by changing how it appears to you. If you have enough control over yourself you can dominate them - that is to say, make them play by your rules. If their lust for your fear is overpowering their reason, you can lead them into all sorts of different scenarios (or even a trap).

The worse thing they can do to you is possess you (these may not have been humans). That's really freaky. I learned to wake myself, and when I was little there were times I would eject myself from the dream state only to find that I was very much melded still with what was attacking me. I had to spend 5-10 minutes calling myself back to control and expunging that which was attacking me so I could have normal control over my limbs, thoughts, and speech.

Incredible times those were... I'm glad they are mostly over.

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## Octavii

> For me... Identifying a DW or NS is a two step process.
> 
> 1st step - Identify the character's source.
> 
> The character could literally be anything: person, tree, shadowpeople, water, sky... anything. The main question is: Is it you or not? If you've created the character on purpose then you don't have to test. If you're like me, you sometimes create characters from your (sub)consciousness. The way to check is to grab it's mind and look at it. It should comply. If all you perceive is you or a part of you... well then it's you. If it resists and you perceive something else, then it's not you. You've just encountered somebody!!
> 
> Note: The trick is to be subtle enough so that you don't piss them off in the identification process. When I first started, I had to get really close and dominate them. Unfortunately, that is perceived as an act of aggression. Since then, I'm pretty good at simply "tuning in" and "reading" them.
> 
> 2nd step - Is it a DW or an NS?
> ...



hmmm...thats really wired because im my experience (my only) they were black shadows and they were not friendly, they pushed me down somewhere (like i was falling) and when i woke up i couldn't move! there wasn't just one though, there was at least a dozen of them! ive never encounted them again. My problem is, i don't know how to control my dreams, even i suspect its only a dream, im then thrown into another scenario and get no time to think! its very frustrating when your tryin to gain control. Any tips?

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## iLight

Meeting someone in your dream is as real as meeting a person in "Real Life" 
I have met many other races from other planets who took me there with them to explore their world. They are here to help us but in the same time to harm us.
When you encounter one show it respect and dignity.If you show him your fear, he will use it against you. They are able to access our life's trough fears. And tear our current conscious states into a catastrophe.
Have self confidence and try to become their friends.  :smiley:

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## labmonkeywork

Hey Octavii, No worries. You've only had one experience so don't expect to be a master at it. Also, you said you can't control your dreams so much and you feel you are slow... That all comes with practice, determination, and raw willpower.

Regarding defending yourself... If you think you are having a shared dream, it is extremely important that you identify the characters. The following advice assumes that you have identified your assailants as foreign (that you are not fighting your own self for some pursuit of ego) and that you are not divided against yourself.

The way I have fought against "night stalkers", "shadow people", "black wraiths", "demons", or "dicks" is by appealing to the God-given great strength inside of me that I asked God for. It is unstoppable if I fully "tap into" or "become" it. Any great obstacle is obliterated. Any great foe is vanquished. And I remain.

At first I used to fight them on their level. Blow for blow. Fire for fire. Mutilation for mutilation. But I quickly learned it was futile. There were always more of them. They were always faster. They often invaded deep within my mind. That's when I realized the importance of really knowing myself over knowing my attacker. I realized I was weak, and I became humble. That's when I was able to start tapping into my God-given strength. I noticed that my attacker always wanted my fear - gave it a high and made it easier to subdue me. With willpower I was still afraid, but I was in control of myself. By not yielding to choking fear I was also not yielding to them. I was powerful, and they became intimidated of me... they thought that I could be a threat.

That's when they back off. Don't pursue fighting them at this point unless you remain unshaken and determined with your willpower. Your willpower is your weapon. It may manifest itself in oh so many different ways, but that is what it is. Will power. When I first started wielding it, I manifested it as a great fiery sword. Some demons were delighted I could conjure such a thing, but most (the weaker ones) were afraid and fled my presence. If I hit anyone, they would flee the faster. <BTW - I know of no way to destroy them. I think it may be impossible. But they can be imprisoned.> Now, I just dominate them, push them aside like bugs (when I'm in my A-game), and I defend others haunted by these appalling creatures and give what strength I can to the victim so the demons won't come back. I try to watch and wait and revisit, but oftentimes I get lost out there.

In summary... Keep in control. Know yourself. Be humble. Appeal to the higher power.

The last part may be the biggest hang up for most people, but I simply describe it as I have witnessed it.

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## Octavii

> Hey Octavii, No worries. You've only had one experience so don't expect to be a master at it. Also, you said you can't control your dreams so much and you feel you are slow... That all comes with practice, determination, and raw willpower.
> 
> Regarding defending yourself... If you think you are having a shared dream, it is extremely important that you identify the characters. The following advice assumes that you have identified your assailants as foreign (that you are not fighting your own self for some pursuit of ego) and that you are not divided against yourself.
> 
> The way I have fought against "night stalkers", "shadow people", "black wraiths", "demons", or "dicks" is by appealing to the God-given great strength inside of me that I asked God for. It is unstoppable if I fully "tap into" or "become" it. Any great obstacle is obliterated. Any great foe is vanquished. And I remain.
> 
> At first I used to fight them on their level. Blow for blow. Fire for fire. Mutilation for mutilation. But I quickly learned it was futile. There were always more of them. They were always faster. They often invaded deep within my mind. That's when I realized the importance of really knowing myself over knowing my attacker. I realized I was weak, and I became humble. That's when I was able to start tapping into my God-given strength. I noticed that my attacker always wanted my fear - gave it a high and made it easier to subdue me. With willpower I was still afraid, but I was in control of myself. By not yielding to choking fear I was also not yielding to them. I was powerful, and they became intimidated of me... they thought that I could be a threat.
> 
> That's when they back off. Don't pursue fighting them at this point unless you remain unshaken and determined with your willpower. Your willpower is your weapon. It may manifest itself in oh so many different ways, but that is what it is. Will power. When I first started wielding it, I manifested it as a great fiery sword. Some demons were delighted I could conjure such a thing, but most (the weaker ones) were afraid and fled my presence. If I hit anyone, they would flee the faster. <BTW - I know of no way to destroy them. I think it may be impossible. But they can be imprisoned.> Now, I just dominate them, push them aside like bugs (when I'm in my A-game), and I defend others haunted by these appalling creatures and give what strength I can to the victim so the demons won't come back. I try to watch and wait and revisit, but oftentimes I get lost out there.
> ...



That all sounds well and true but how the hell do you sort out whats just a dream or whats something else invading your personal space and like you said, feeding off your fear. How do you know if its just a normal nightmare or not? i think i know what your gonna say...that lucid dreaming would help, i just get so consumed by fear (in a nightmare) that it completely takes me over! surely this is how most start out right? aslo how the hell do you dream walk? it just seems so impossible to master to me...as you said you get lost out there...

----------


## Fluffysilver

*Just read the entire thread*

Bring it on, you bastards!

And even if this is like video game griefers... or if there are no night stalkers or dream walkers... hey, it's like an adventure in the dreams. And god knows my dreams are incredibly boring, I could use a little ass kicking to spiff them up and make them more memorable.

If there are those two factions, how many others are there? How come they can get into dreams so easily - real or not? Do they have headquarters? How do they work? What are their weaknesses and strengths? How can I use my own strengths against dream enemies?

... Buahahaha.

----------


## labmonkeywork

Fluffysilver, you're awesome! I love your upbeat attitude. Willpower is the only strength I have ever witnessed that can truly upset dream enemies. Hopefully your dreams will be interesting. I just hope they won't be out of your hands.

Octavii, you may not like it, but the only way you can know if it is your dream or someone is upsetting your space is if you truly know yourself. Think of it as a control to an experiment. If you have truly quantified yourself (accurately) then you know when something else has entered your mind. It takes humility, practice, and dedication, but it is the only way. If you don't know yourself accurately, it is impossible to determine whether it is you or someone else. If you haven't already, you will have to study yourself intimately and you have to realize you are capable of great good and evil. Know yourself.

Normal nightmare? I assume you mean no "invader" of sorts. The answer is the same as above.

Consumed by fear? You have to let it go. You have to let it pass through you while you hold a clear idea of who you are and what you want to do. Usually for me, I'm interested in defending myself and others.

How do I dream walk? While entering sleep some people trying to focus on one thing... lucidity. I, on the other hand, have always required healthy distraction to keep me dedicated (ADHD?). While entering sleep, one at a time I think of new subjects and concerns. I spool them all in my head and if I should find resolution for one, then it drops out of my head, but then I'll add 10 more (this world is full of so many genuine concerns). With all this in my head, I am effectively focused on everything. Consequently, this also means I'm not focused intently on any one thing and I can then pay attention to many things simultaneously and without bias. Here, in this state, I begin to wander. I open myself up to so many different people with different problems. I can feel them in my mind. I am led to them by love and empathy (being able to see life through their eyes).

It is in this way that I find people, and I try to help them and give them hope. Some dream with so much dispondancy, and I'll change their dreams for them to lift them out of depression. Others, I defend against those who attack. Sure I don't know them by name when I first meet them, but when I meet them in real life later they recognize me and thank me. I have been called both God and Devil, though I am neither.

To everyone, please share your experience. It will help me "map" my own.

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## jamous

> It seems to happen by itself with a little intent behind it.
> 
>  A few stories:
> 
>  Once, when i was overly obsessed with dream shamanism i tried something I read in a Carlos Castaneda book. In the book. Don Genaro was making fun of castaneda for writing notes. He told carlos that he should write his notes with  his fingertips instead of his pen - That it would be a perfect _not doing_, for carlos.
> 
>  Keep in mind i was nearly a madman at this time. I got inspired. pulled out a piece of paper and wrote with my fignertip on the paper my Intent. I think it said "where do i go from here". Then i took the piece of paper to my balcony. and burned it. At the same time, my roomate was on the balcony on the phone. As soon as the last ember burned out on the paper. my roomate said to me "hey, talk to my friend. he's been having problems with hallucinations."
> 
>  The event was so synchronised that i couldn't refuse. I talked to his friend. His friend described being chased by things that only he could see. He mentioned his dreams were filled with beings draining his energy and terrorising him.
> ...



ramma: I've been reading the Castaneda series as well for a little while now and I'm now on the 5th one. Actually they're pretty much the reason I got into lucid dreaming.

I didn't think energy body was supposed to have any sort of mind of it's own, though. I thought that your regular body either passed out or was asleep while your consciousness basically transferred into your energy body. It's possible I misinterepereted of course....

ramma and everybody: anyway, I'm generally very skeptical about dream sharing ["NSs," "DWs"] and other things related to dreaming that just don't seem physically possible. Lucid dreaming is one thing because that stays within your head, but when you start talking about ESP related dream occurences that aren't known to be possible (according to science) I get very skeptical and very very intrigued. 

If dream sharing does exist, then that turns dreaming into a far more valid alternate reality. A reality you can only visit, but in which you are invinsible and have control of the environment and where you can have companions to validate it and to keep you company through your adventures. That would be incredible. Any thoughts?

And Ramma: Though what I'm saying doesn't fit perfectly with Castaneda's ideas, it is at least a more empirical, ideal version. Any thoughts?

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## Octavii

> Fluffysilver, you're awesome! I love your upbeat attitude. Willpower is the only strength I have ever witnessed that can truly upset dream enemies. Hopefully your dreams will be interesting. I just hope they won't be out of your hands.
> 
> Octavii, you may not like it, but the only way you can know if it is your dream or someone is upsetting your space is if you truly know yourself. Think of it as a control to an experiment. If you have truly quantified yourself (accurately) then you know when something else has entered your mind. It takes humility, practice, and dedication, but it is the only way. If you don't know yourself accurately, it is impossible to determine whether it is you or someone else. If you haven't already, you will have to study yourself intimately and you have to realize you are capable of great good and evil. Know yourself.
> 
> Normal nightmare? I assume you mean no "invader" of sorts. The answer is the same as above.
> 
> Consumed by fear? You have to let it go. You have to let it pass through you while you hold a clear idea of who you are and what you want to do. Usually for me, I'm interested in defending myself and others.
> 
> How do I dream walk? While entering sleep some people trying to focus on one thing... lucidity. I, on the other hand, have always required healthy distraction to keep me dedicated (ADHD?). While entering sleep, one at a time I think of new subjects and concerns. I spool them all in my head and if I should find resolution for one, then it drops out of my head, but then I'll add 10 more (this world is full of so many genuine concerns). With all this in my head, I am effectively focused on everything. Consequently, this also means I'm not focused intently on any one thing and I can then pay attention to many things simultaneously and without bias. Here, in this state, I begin to wander. I open myself up to so many different people with different problems. I can feel them in my mind. I am led to them by love and empathy (being able to see life through their eyes).
> ...



Thats very interesting stuff, i think (in the past) i have tried to learn as much as possible about myself and i think ive done a pretty good job...hmmm...only time will tell i suppose  :smiley:  thanks for your replies anyhow

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## Aneas

All of this sounds very entertaining.  Being an LDer for 36 years I'm quite bored and I would LOVE a challenge.  So, if anyone in this forum has any influence in that realm you have my express permission to send "them" my way.

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## Fluffysilver

Hmmm, I don't remember my dreams much last night - except that I think it involved Lupin from Harry Potter doing something to the kittens in Umbridge's office - so I don't think any Night Stalkers showed up. That, or they were so crap I can't remember.

Thanks Labmonkey.  ::D:

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## The Cusp

> Being an LDer for 36 years I'm quite bored and I would LOVE a challenge.  So, if anyone in this forum has any influence in that realm you have my express permission to send "them" my way.



Everyone always has a "Do Me" attitude towards this subject.  They always want someone to come find them.  What we need are more experienced LDers (36 years?  Holy crap!) who are willing to try to find someone.

I can't get lucid worth a damn these days.  Makes it all the worse when you're trying hard and it doesn't work.

Of course then there is the problem of is it just a DC or a real person.  Only solution I can see is trying to see their energy bodies as Casteneda suggested by pointing your pinky at what you want to see.  Dream objects  and DCs should have no energy bodies.

Of course there is the problem of did you just dream there was an energy body, or was there really one.  But at least it's something to try.





> I didn't think energy body was supposed to have any sort of mind of it's own



It sort of does, as it exists in a different state on consciousness.  You don't have any memory of your energy self during regular conciousness, kind of like dreams.  Consider the crazy logic in dreams, it's like your dream self has a mind of it's own.

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## Fluffysilver

DC or not, I want some asses to kick!  :tongue2:

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## Aneas

> Everyone always has a "Do Me" attitude towards this subject. They always want someone to come find them. What we need are more experienced LDers (36 years? Holy crap!) who are willing to try to find someone.
> 
> I can't get lucid worth a damn these days. Makes it all the worse when you're trying hard and it doesn't work.
> 
> Of course then there is the problem of is it just a DC or a real person. Only solution I can see is trying to see their energy bodies as Casteneda suggested by pointing your pinky at what you want to see. Dream objects and DCs should have no energy bodies.
> 
> Of course there is the problem of did you just dream there was an energy body, or was there really one. But at least it's something to try.
> 
> 
> ...



I am impresed with your response. It is an articulate and mature response. I started studying the teachings of Casteneda at a very young age (1980 I believe) and I have the advantage of years to add to my bank of knowledge and experience.  :smiley:  I have studied many philosophies and religions, sang in the choir ,and stood in Wiccan circles and participated in "Pagan" ceremonies. Believe me, if I could come find you in the dreamland and therefore further your advancement towards ending the karmic cycle I would. Being a proponent of self-realization I believe that by helping you I help myself. 

Actual dream sharing is contingent upon each person's abilty to share as well as enter the same vibrational frequency at the same time. Like anything worthy, this requires discipline and dedication. However, I will accept your challenge of coming to you to the best of my abilities, and extend this invitation to anyone else interested. I make no promises of success, but I can promise my committment in the endevour itself. Any of you who are truly interested PM me.

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## jamous

> It sort of does, as it exists in a different state on consciousness.  You don't have any memory of your energy self during regular conciousness, kind of like dreams.  Consider the crazy logic in dreams, it's like your dream self has a mind of it's own.



I guess so, but "you" are still the conscious operator.

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## The Cusp

> I guess so, but "you" are still the conscious operator.



Yes, but which one?

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## EagleEye

I'd never run into these terms before but they make some sense with something I experienced years ago.

In my early twenties, I became friendly with someone who was practicing High Magic (a la the Golden Dawn) and other paranormal things. She was a fascinating person and had impressed others her apparent abilities/skills. Before my BF and her had ever met in person (and had no idea what she looked like), he had a dream where he saw a nearly perfect representation of her. She was surrounded by beautiful orbs of blue light.

Years later, my BF and I had a falling out with her b/c she had tried to cause trouble between us and break us up. My BF and I stayed together and soon after our falling out, I began having nightmares where she was attacking me in various ways. I destroyed her in my last dream with my special weapon and a clearing (mantra). She didn't return to antagonize me. I assumed these were "psychic attacks" by her on my dreaming mind or maybe just nightmares from stress - I had plenty of that at the time.

Now I'm wondering if she didn't have some specialized training to visit other people's dreams in a benign manner and later used it maliciously against me because she was angry and upset. 

So, do people ever switch sides from a DW to a NS? Must they be lucid to visit another dreamer? Does the vistee have to be lucid for this be labeled a DW or NS event? How does this work?





> Typical actions for DW - helping others, recreation, sparring, learning, etc.
> Typical thoughts for DW - health, life, peace, freedom
> 
> Typical actions for NS - rape, murder, bullying, destroying, etc.
> Typical thoughts for NS - lust, blood lust, death, dominance



labmonkeywork: in your opinion, why would DW's want to spar with other dreamers? Is it to teach us something?

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## The Cusp

> How does this work?



Actually, your post is one of the first that even begins to explain anything, or at least offer a lead to the Golden Dawn.

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## Infraredkelp

How do you enter other peoples dreams?

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## jamous

> Yes, but which one?



it might be another side of you but it's still you if you are consciously in control and remember it.

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## labmonkeywork

> labmonkeywork: in your opinion, why would DW's want to spar with other dreamers? Is it to teach us something?



You never fight just for fun or to get your attack preplanned? I was simply suggesting it because I've done it before and it wasn't malicious.

Hey Cusp, regarding the "Golden Dawn" what resources did you look at. A simple Google search got me some leads, but I would like to do a more thorough literature search and was wondering what sources you would suggest.

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## anomanderis

In the attachment is a .pdf about the Golden Dawn that I found in my magick folder.

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## Jaymz654

I just have a quick question.  I just spent like three hours reading this whole thread and have found it extememly interesting.  Please bear with me if this question has already been answere or if it is stupid but:  To encounter a NS or DW, do you have to be lucid?


P.S.  All DW's out there you're welcome to come find me and we'll have a sparring match you wont forget  :wink2:

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## The Cusp

> Hey Cusp, regarding the "Golden Dawn" what resources did you look at. A simple Google search got me some leads, but I would like to do a more thorough literature search and was wondering what sources you would suggest.



Huh?  I didn't check out any resources, was just quoting EagleEye.

I had always resisted getting into that stuff.  I had never liked the endless number of gods and deities they are constantly rambling about.  Couldn't keep it all straight.  Although it might make more sense to me these days, since I keep coming across the subject matter in an incidental manner.

I had come across a great parody of a summoning ritual to summon up Aleister Crowley himself.  http://www.geocities.com/athens/acro.../summonAC.html
Here's a little snippet: 

"With seven vestal virgins, I entice you to appear!"
"With seven lines of fine Peruvian cocaine, I tempt you to appear!"
"With seven young, gay, Arabian boys I seduce you to appear!"
"By a gram of China white heroin, I dare you to appear!"
"Just to see if I have all that shit, I DEFY YOU TO APPEAR!"

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## dreamscaper22

is it possible to have some come into your mind to help you realize your dreaming

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## The Cusp

> To encounter a NS or DW, do you have to be lucid?



No.  I think a NS would actually prefer you not to be lucid.  THat has me thinking of all those pesky DCs that that seem like they want to foil your lucidity at every turn.





> P.S.  All DW's out there you're welcome to come find me and we'll have a sparring match you wont forget



I'm not buying it.  You gotta be more cocky, insult them a little.  
They're certainly too chicken to come after me any more. :wink2: 


I take random notes from stuff I read on the net and never write down where it's from.  I must have clicked my notes accidentally before I left for work, cuz when I got home this was open on my screen.  I have no idea what it was from.

It hints at being able to control people's action while awake by manipulating their dreams.  It's a strange block of text, but it has some interesting ideas.

_Q. What is the part played by Will in dreams?

A. The will of the outer man, our volition, is of course dormant and inactive during
 dreams; but a certain bent can be given to the slumbering will during its inactivity,
 and certain after-results developed by the mutual inter-action -- produced almost
 mechanically -- through union between two or more "principles" into one, so that they 
will act in perfect harmony, without any friction or a single false note, when awake. 
But this is one of the dodges of "black magic," and when used for good purposes belongs 
to the training of an Occultist. One must be far advanced on the "path" to have a will
 which can act consciously during his physical sleep, or act on the will of another
 person during the sleep of the latter, e.g., to control his dreams, and thus control 
his actions when awake._

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## Vortex

Cusp, It's from here:
http://www.teosofia.com/Mumbai/7507dream.html

By the way - love the Crowley summoning bit  :smiley:

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## The Cusp

I should have know it was Blavatsky.  That woman wouldn't know a paragraph in if bit her.  So hard to read her stuff.





> is it possible to have some come into your mind to help you realize your dreaming



I was going to say yes, but now that I think about it, maybe not.  Becoming lucid isn't something someone else can do for you.  It's all about learning to focus you awareness.  In the DJ section, you often seen people dreaming they are talking about lucidity without getting lucid.

----------


## labmonkeywork

Thanks Cusp. I missed that mention from EagleEye, and many upon many gods confuses me too. anomanderis, thanks for the info!





> is it possible to have some come into your mind to help you realize your dreaming



Yes, it is entirely possible. One guy has done it to me twice and he wears shades of blue. He showed me around a lot of places I never thought of going to. I wish I could find him in the physical world. As Cusp put it... the guy called me or inspired me to a greater sense of awareness and I realized it was a dream and controlled my part of it where I allowed him to control the rest.





> So, do people ever switch sides from a DW to a NS? Must they be lucid to visit another dreamer? Does the vistee have to be lucid for this be labeled a DW or NS event? How does this work?



Switch sides? Yes, I did a couple times... and sometimes I get really pissed and indiscriminately violent and briefly lash out at everything... And here I continue to inspire the downtrodden and mend the broken hearted. I need more control of myself and to be pure at heart so I can be consistent through and through.

Lucid to meet another dreamer? Don't really need to be, but you need to at least recall it, because if you meet that person in reality then you can praise or curse them. If they remember you, they can adequately respond.

Lucid to label DW or NS? Again not really. I met this one guy and he didn't really know he was dreaming. That is why it was really easy for me to scare the holy crap out of him (I was getting my vengeance). I imagine he would call me a NS if he used the same language as we are.

It seems to me that you are a little hung up about the language of DW or NS. Me, I try not to worry too much. People are people. Spirits are spirits. I am myself. We're all good and bad and a little mixed. If I were in a herd of sheep, I'd be either a black sheep or a goat or a black goat or a sheep dog. And I can be all of that even if the other sheep don't perceive it.

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## iLight

Dream walrkers come with a good purpose,they open a better sense of awerensees in your mind...etc.... i usually meet few of them once a month

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## Incomplete

> Dream walrkers come with a good purpose,they open a better sense of awerensees in your mind...etc.... i usually meet few of them once a month



How do you tell whether it is a DW or a DC?

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## bella_bee

i got directed to this thread drom my intro thread i had an experience with a night stalker and im not quite sure how to react to them in my dreams as its happened 2 nights in a row with the same person invading my dreams, in my dream it was in real time like a scenario that would happen on a normal weekend for me and this person got into the mids of my friends in my dream had control of their mobile phones and somehow managed to pre empt what my next move was before i made it as i was trying to avoid this person in my dream after i started to feel unsafe in my own dream

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## Jeff777

Interesting...spent about 50 minutes reading and skimming this thread...what's interesting is how two girls come on talking about dream walkers and night stalkers and how everyone (practically) is suddenly spellbound...why?  My personal opinion is because deep down humans want something to believe in, and want something to belong to.  Also i'm willing to bet 90+&#37; of you guys are hardcore gamers  :tongue2:   Anyway, with that said...i'm not going to throw out a challenge and try to be the hercules of dreamviews nor am I going to try and debunk Lex's and Sar's very very interesting stories.  I can't speak on or against something I know nothing about...so perhaps it's true and perhaps not.  But please people, think for yourselves and don't be so easily swayed. 

-peace and love

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## The Cusp

> what's interesting is how two girls come on talking about dream walkers and night stalkers and how everyone (practically) is suddenly spellbound...why?



Because It's an interesting idea that hasn't been discussed to death already?

But thanks for taking the time to stop by and tell us we're all a bunch of delusional fantasy game geeks.

----------


## Jeff777

It is _VERY_ Interesting...and enticing...infact, a part of me wants to believe it but experience has taught me better.  My intention wasn't to call you all a bunch of "delusional fantasy game geeks".  Just to think for yourselves and look at everything including the sources credbility which is uknown.  When it comes to people who want to believe in something so bad because it's interesting and makes them feel important being apart of a chosen few...that was me  :tongue2:   I have many stories my family could tell you about...one in particular, I was probably going to be taken to an asylum because I met a group of online people whom I conversed with for months, had me believing wings could grow out of my back, and I could fly around the world and save people on a physical level...those were the days.  Again if I came across as insulting, The_Cusp, I apologize, that wasn't my intention...but reading through the thread I saw how this topic went from people not knowing a thing about dream walkers and night stalkers to people posting their dreams and saying "Does this mean something?" and "I think I met one!".

----------


## The Cusp

Actually, Jeff, I have to agree with you a little.  There have been way too many people asking if this or that was a dream walker.  I was hoping for more positive IDs.  But the dreamland is a confusing place and it's hard to be sure of anything with any certainty.

The only way I've come up with to recognize a possible dream walker so far is when _they_ lose lucidity.  Usually an indestructible opponent, bent single mindedly on tormenting you, suddenly becomes distracted by something and forgets all about you.   If you've ever experienced lucidity, you know how hard it is to hold onto.    I know DCs can be retarded, but that's still strange behavior in my book.

While I'm trying to sympathize with what you went through (I'd do anything for a pair or wings!), I think you're wrong about the majority of these people wanting to be "special".   And in fact I think they are thinking for themselves.  It's not easy to go against what everyone else thinks, even in the face of ridicule.  

This has turned into a long thread, but I think there is a bit of truth buried in here somewhere.  All I know for sure is it's going to take me a few years of dream work to make up my mind for sure on the subject.  That or getting lucid and managing to "see" a dream walker's energy body.   But that's a whole other barrel of  fish.  (is that even a saying?)

----------


## Jeff777

It's one now  :wink2:   And yes I agree too, the only sure way to know I suppose is to know for one's self.  Kind of like how faith works in religeon.  btw, let this be a pre-congratulatory congratulations on reaching your thousandth post  :smiley:

----------


## labmonkeywork

I'd have to agree some with Jeff - lot's of people wanting ID's for DW or NS and we shouldn't base a life-changing emphasis on this thread since nothing can be verified.

<Begin Side Note>
I love anonymity because it allows me to be more honest than I normally get to be with people. Since you were just skimming... you probably didn't read some of my longer posts. I sound pretty messed up because of my experiences, but I lead a productive life and I think that's important.
<End Side Note>

A healthy bit of skepticism does us all some good and I agree that this is a little how faith works in religion. If one exercises faith, the "doors are opened" and new experiences can be felt, and it is up to the individual to verify these experiences to make sure his/her faith is not blind.

I for one know that my shared dreams are real and I find it a little freaky. Confirmation of the shared dream was the worst part. Crap, one girl wanted me to be her god. That's messed up.

In summary I say "Thanks Jeff". I think with a healthy bit of skepticism, we can all stay mentally healthier. It's not that we second guess ourselves on everything we do. No, that would be a terrible lifestyle. It's that we confirm our experiences as to whether they are true or not so that we may proceed through life cautiously and correctly - not based on fantasy.

Thanks Jeff and TheCusp

----------


## anomanderis

After a long hiatus, i had another interesting encounter with someone. Don't know if this was a dream character, but if it was, then i made it awfully powerful.

This was a lucid dream. I'll leave the beginning out, where i had some fun with a light saber and kaleidoscopic flame ::lol::  - 

Now I decide to fly so I jump through the wall of my room and am accelerating upwards, when I see that above the building it gets really bright. So I make a 180 and lets myself fall. I fall through the ground into darkness. It feels really good to fall. After a while I slow and settle on what seems like the ocean floor. It has some sparse  and small vegetation. The seabed is covered with rough sand. Visibility is about 10m, but everything is quite dim.
Then something weird happens. I sense a presence approaching fast. I do not like this. It is a presence even darker than darkness. It moves around me and then takes hold of my right hand, attaching itself to me. It laughed with this really evil laugh. Not the lame one you hear in movies, but truly evil. It was enjoying making me feel uncomfortable. I do not like this.
While that was happening, I didn’t feel fear at all. I knew that I was invincible, but the first effort to rid myself of this presence failed. I think I just kinda tried to force push it away from  me, but at this point  the presence had already kinda melted into my  hand and shoulder. 
I woke up and, just in case, I did auric cleansing.

----------


## Zek

Hi everyone, Im new here and having read this post Im wondering if these dream stalkers/walkers may be related to the strange dreams I am having, I have posted here about it but so far have recieved no replies  :Sad: 

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=42193

I can usually work out all the different types of dreams I have but this one is beyond me as it is so strange.

Thanks 
 :smiley:

----------


## anomanderis

> Hi everyone, Im new here and having read this post Im wondering if these dream stalkers/walkers may be related to the strange dreams I am having, I have posted here about it but so far have recieved no replies 
> 
> http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=42193
> 
> I can usually work out all the different types of dreams I have but this one is beyond me as it is so strange.
> 
> Thanks



If it is indeed someone and not something (ie, a dc) and it is not speaking to you, but still persists in your dreams, then i would guess that it is waiting for you to become lucid before it spoke to you. That is if its intentions are "good".
I'm also guessing that a more probable scenario is that your subconscious is trying to tell you something really really important, but you haven't got the message yet  :smiley:

----------


## Zek

hi anomanderis, thanks for that.  Yes it is definately someone although they change appearance all the time I know it is the same person.  Im not sure what a dc is though  ::?:    I really hope it is someone good, I get the feeling it is though sometimes when Im awake and thinking of the dreams I do get a slight feeling that the person is being sly (maybe due to the fact that they completely interrupt my dreams and just stay close to me as though they are watching me)  I find it strange that I cant break through to the person as I usually have pretty good control over my dreams.

I have thought myself it could be my subconcious trying to get a message across but its been happening for so long now that I have no idea what it could be. 

Thanks for your help  :smiley:

----------


## anomanderis

dc - dream character

----------


## iLight

Seriously, every time im Lucid..... i keep on getting attacked by some Intelligent force, I saw it like FBI or Secret service.

AT some point in todays dream, i managed to access someones dream but certainly i couldn't control it as i do in my dreams. 

What happened was : 
This women who i never saw before came to my house and asked me to help her out, she looked so frightened and scared that i couldn't resist on helping her.
SO she started to talk, i gave her some tea and some food ..... 

After she finished eating, she started to talk about secret society's and other "strange phenomenon", for some reason i felt that my mission was to calm her down.. and tell her to forget everything she knows thus it might kill her one day.

So we entered her car which was Volkswagen blue color and at that point some intelligent force like FBI, CIA started to chase us.
At that point i became lucid and i tried to do anything to prevent them from catching her. But i couldnt do anything,all my powers were useless at that moment. Than i asked the women if she could use her powers... she didnt respond to that question, the only thing i remmeber her saying is , I'm giving you the rights to control me. AT that point i noticed that my usual skills are back. Such as flying, telepathy, Invincibility etc..... Right on i teleported us somewhere in Europe and i started to question her whats going on...... 
She said these forces target those who become lucid eventually. They have no power over your Dream but they might frighten you if your a newb at controlling your powers.

As for my self, I've been fighting these forces for about 7 month's now... I enjoy fighting them since they bring me some action.... 

who knows what they are?

----------


## Sandform

They are you silly!  Assume something will happen in a dream, and it will.

(btw I wasn't saying that Shared Dreaming, or etc isn't real, I just meant if these things are happening with consistency, then the odds are they are you mind...because you assume they will happen.  I mean I don't believe in it but...you know, just so I don't get flamed.)

----------


## homer2020

I'm really skeptical of this, I mean it could be true but seems really fake, if this is possible, please I invite all to come to my dreams, I've only ever been lucid once, kill me torture me, do whatever you want, i won't believe this until this happens. I haven't had a nightmare in months, I'll know if the dream seems out of place. I have usually 1-2 dreams I can remember a night, as long as I get 8 hours sleep, tonight I won't because I have to wake up early and I should really be going to bed, so ummm have fun I'll post back if anything out of the ordinary happens.

----------


## Zek

> dc - dream character



Thanks for that anomanderis  :smiley:

----------


## kerho

Hello everyone,

I've read most of this thread and what I say comes from personal experience and what I've shared with and observed in others. I know it might sound a bit strange and some of the terms might be weird if you haven't heard them before. As with everything you read, use your own judgement. 

Some people are more sensitive to both their own dreaming and outside energies that might end up in the fabric of dreaming. Even these people need experience and good knowledge of their own energy, to know where they end and others begin - to know whether a character in your dream is just a part of you, or some outside energy or person. Even from scientific point of view, what are we all but energy, energy that can change forms but never is destroyed. In dreaming, to know what you are really dealing with, you need to tear though the fabric, see beyond the images and metaphors mind gives you and there you'll find the raw energy and what it's really about. For most people there exist large chunks of their own energy they don't even recognize as their own anymore, simply because they have learned to repress and hide it, often as far back as early childhood. 

In most cases, where you are having epic battles and wars in your dreams, you are simply fighting aspects of yourself. Our brain usually isn't comfortable when we control our dreaming and it pulls every trick it has to keep you occupied so that your dreaming doesn't get into areas the brain feels are threatening. So it throws in images that are trying to control you and get to you through your emotions - emotional blackmail is something brain exceeds at. Whether you fight or run, your brain gets what it wanted in the first place - keep you distracted and in line. A lot of the time you can just simply ignore what ever comes your way, don't let the dream lure you in. 

Lucid dreaming is one thing, truly moving in dreaming is another story. Yes, you can meet other people in dreaming for real, or give them dreams, but it's not at all the same as just becoming lucid and messing around the play ground your brain gives you. If you just want action or have fun in your dreaming, that's ok. If you want to really accomplish things, that needs a lot of work, more than most people are willing to do and the more you learn, the more you understand that having an ego about things (as in self-importance etc.) just gets you in trouble. Self healing is the place to start, that clears your energy and gives you understanding of your energy. One way to do that is the recapitulation. 

I have no idea about dream walkers or night stalkers, but it is true that there are people and groups who track down people whose dreaming is starting to awake. Some of them are nice and some are not, but I wouldn't be worried about them. 

One more thing about energy, something I've noticed is people often give 'rules' to energy, like that there is this plane and that plane, and there you can do this and can't do that. I know that is one way to give some meaning to it all, so that we can better comprehend what we are dealing with, but I find that kind of thinking rather limiting, though the other option of no limits is plain scary. 

I hope I'm making at least some sense, I don't claim to be an expert or any kind of authority, but I do have verifiable personal experience. That said, everything is on a 'take it or leave it' basis, I don't need other people to agree with me. Use your own judgement and intuition, for lack of a better term. 

Thanks for your attention, if you got this far.

----------


## Sandform

What if you have an anti ego?

----------


## The Cusp

Thanks for coming out of Lurk mode, Kerho. 

See people, he know what he's talking about!

----------


## Ravenfire

I just spent the last couple of hours reading through this entire post.  I have to admit it was both fascinating and extremely entertaining!  I'm kind of sorry that I'm finished with it lol.  I'm just getting started learning about dreams in general so I'll save my judgement for a later time.  I do have a very open mind on the topic though and many of the posters in this thread have been very convincing.  Well, I'm off now to start reading about lucid dreaming.  I do look forward to following this thread as is progresses more though!

----------


## homer2020

So far nothing... Only been having weird dreams, nobody doing anything to me though.

----------


## Soul_Sleeper

Hey guys one question,

Although I am skeptical about the reality of this stuff, (thinking its just all in your mind) I was wondering; could Dreamwalkers act as dreamguides? 

like could someone go into my non-lucid dream and tell me to do an RC?

That would be great... I really want to have a lucid.

anyone here (that donst want to hurt me) wanna go into my dream and tell me to have an RC?

And if a night stalker wants to come into my dream, tell me to do an RC and we'll battle it out. I've won judo compitions and seen every matrix movey a million times ... so in a dream ill kick your ass.

Thanks, and remeber tell me to do an RC. ::banana::

----------


## Fordy

My friend was sick and I think that he may have unintentionally entered our dreams. (I think this because you always seem to have really powerfull dreams when you are sick). For 4 nights, he was entering me and my other friends dreams. He seemed to only enter the ones about girls. On Monday, he entered my other friends. On tuesday, he entered mine and again the next day and on thursday, he entered my other friends again. He was doing things like jumping through walls and stuff and messing with the dreams. He also seemed to enter the dreams next to a girl.

----------


## jamous

> My friend was sick and I think that he may have unintentionally entered our dreams. (I think this because you always seem to have really powerfull dreams when you are sick). For 4 nights, he was entering me and my other friends dreams. He seemed to only enter the ones about girls. On Monday, he entered my other friends. On tuesday, he entered mine and again the next day and on thursday, he entered my other friends again. He was doing things like jumping through walls and stuff and messing with the dreams. He also seemed to enter the dreams next to a girl.



did he remember this, it doesn't mean much if he he doesn't remember it. Otherwise, you probably just entered him into your own dreams.

----------


## the real pieman

O.K....i'm pretty open minded, andlisten to both sides fo the story before i make my decision and i think its time i re-introduced a hint of skeptisism....

The concept...creatures of good and evil fighting each other through dreams, not impossible but highly unlikely. We do not know that much about dreams (actually hardly anything) but i think its safe to say that this concept of good and evil is too linear....because of the fact that good and evil don't really exist...there are different levels, and even if they did then wouldnt the physical world be more effecive to cause chaos for the dream stalkers, if they have access to it that is? because most people have no concept of dreams only like 1% of the population (this is not an actual figure just an educated guess) understand the concept of lucid dreams and are willing to look deeper....also if the battle does exist then why do they fight???? if they are truly spiritual beings then should understand that its not about war, its about peace....

now for some unknown reason i feel compelled to destroy my skeptisism with the "for" arguement...

for every ying there is a yang, therefore it only makes sense for there to be good and evil...and if there are different levels then as we are unable to reach "pure evil" or "pure goodness" then other creatures/beings should be able to...(ying yang...we are the inbetween and cannot reject one and only have the other)....

if the dream stalkers do exist then odds are that they are spiritual beings, meaning that we would appear as ghosts to them as they would to us....but if we become lucid we achieve a new state of awareness meaning that we would nearly be seen as they are instead of ghosts....meaning why no one yet on this topic has labled it ridiculous...because we all have come into contact with them and KNOW THAT THERE IS SOMETHING  MORE THERE consciously or unconsciously.... and the reason that they can't reach the physical world is because they are the ying and yang, both sides of the spectrum and therefore have no access to the physical world because they are spiritual beings, and as spiritual beings on each side of the spectrum they are more blinded than we are because they cannot comprehend the other side and therefore consider it to be wrong..(ying cannot understand yang, yang cannot understand ying....so even though neither of them may be "evil" because they cannot understand the philosophy of the other, they regard the other as evil and them as "good")....

let me just state that these are not my opinions and i stated them simply because this topic seems slightly lifeless...

----------


## Ahhchuu

posted this in another thread

lol last night i had a dream some miget was snooping around my house so i started interogating him but he didnt say anything so i threw him off to the roadside but he came back so i started shooting at him.. he feigned death then was talking to some people that was on our deck. then after that a suv thing rolled by with 3 people in it and picked up the miget. none of the dudes even looked over to see what was goin on. after that the took off and i was shooting at them because they all had a smirk on their faces and giggled a little. reminded me of the dreamstalkers/nightwalkers or some cia/fbi kind of operation. the cops came with helicopters right after that and ciricled my house and they said over the loud speakers THEY SENT THE POLICE. or somthing along those lines.(this part is not of any relevance i just wanted to defuse the "i would do this in that situation replys") i just summoned a police copter/plane and pretended to be a cop.(it seemed like gta because i used a peice of paper with codes on it to summon it). i crashed into the wall blew up and spent the rest of the dream trying to find the cheat code sheet.

i shot the miget in the head like 3 times then he feigned death. basically he just lied down thats when he started talking to the people on the deck.

i think it was more of a cia/fbi thing but he did get shot in the head 3 times. 

on another note i guess i can add a conspiracy i just thought of. what if the government has a dreamwalking division thats mean is to discover secrets and locations of wanted enemies or targets.

----------


## MisterHyde

I have read every post on this thread.  Seen skeptics discover this and become believers.  I read this because I wanted to know everything possible about Night Stalkers.  I have learnt so much in the last hour of reading this.  And as I know there are Night Stalkers reading this board, so I ask you to pass this message on:

You killed my dream guide, and I am going resurrect her, and then I am going to kill you.  Mister Hyde is not a rashly chosen nickname.  My animalistic side will tear you apart piece by piece.  The stronger mind wins?  You're screwed.  Fear me, because the most powerful, awesome creature walking the face of the earth is coming for the Night Stalkers.

----------


## MisterHyde

Oh, and as for good vs evil being ridiculous?  

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"

----------


## jedimind

I think that these "dream walkers" are simply manifestations of your own mind and nothing more. The fact that you want to believe in them allows your subconscious to give them power over you in your dreams. If you approached the idea of these "dream stalkers" with skepticism, I think you would find that they wouldn't do anything that you couldn't conceive of in your own mind.

----------


## MisterHyde

As someone said in a different thread "Ever have an intelligent conversation with a DC?"  Conversations with them tend to be muddled at best.  I know this, because last night I had one.  

I also had an intelligent conversation with a Night Stalker.  As normally as you would have a conversation with someone in the real world.  When did that last happen to you?  

And one last thing Night Stalkers - If you're not scared, go have a word with your leader. She is.

----------


## durza2016

I looked googled this whole nightstalkers cult thing. And there is no tangible lucid dreaming cult online.

Personally i don;t know if this is real

whatever

----------


## Sandform

> Oh, and as for good vs evil being ridiculous? 
> 
> "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"



Good and Evil are only words though...thats like saying that there is something out there that is the opposite of T.V.  It is just your perception, ideals and beliefs have no equal/opposite forces because they are abstract silly.





> I also had an intelligent conversation with a Night Stalker.  As normally as you would have a conversation with someone in the real world.  *When did that last happen to you?* 
> 
> And one last thing Night Stalkers - If you're not scared, go have a word with your leader. She is.



To the part in bold, everytime I sleep, infact my DC's are smarter than me, more witty, and faster thinkers.

To the part in green. Hehe. 

That is all.

----------


## Xyn

I think we are having a problem here.  If anyone ever has a DC be smart they automatically think that it is a NS or DS.  No, there probably not.  Its normal for some DS's to be smart, remember, its what you want them to say.  If you want there to be a NS or DS you expect them to be smart (Right?)  So thats why there so smart.

It's also natural for some DC's to be smart out of the blue.  I mean, I don't think all DC's are dumb in everyones dreams.

----------


## TheTimeKeep

Well you know, from what Cusp has been saying I actually can imagine the Night Walkers as being pretty weak. It all comes down to (from what I've gathered) how confident you are in your own abilities. Afterall, they are invading *your* domain, so long as you realize that you are capable of defending yourself, using ANY means its all very easy. If there areany Night Walkers, please, amuse me with any tricks or deception you have, when your in my mind, your in *my* reality, not your own. I will not attempt to ban you, I want you to keep invading my mind, and keep failing. *If you duel me, you will be killed*

----------


## Sandform

Why can't they invade a waking mind? What makes a sleeping mind more susceptable than a waking one?

----------


## Ahhchuu

to gain information...

----------


## Jeff777

According to a reliable source Sandform, they can invade a waking mind...I posed that same question before.  The premise of how this work is telepathy.

----------


## Fergie1

If they really do exist, they are welcome to invade my dreams.
Haven't experienced any in the past though.

----------


## Sandform

Then I guess the term "night stalker" and "dream walkers" are irrelevant terms...and it might be more prudent to call them walkers and stalkers.

----------


## jamous

according to Castaneda, you really can't even spot the foreign energy until you stabilize your dreaming attention. 
I don't know about becoming the foreign energy in somebody else's dream though...
hmm

----------


## Sandform

> according to Castaneda, you really can't even spot the foreign energy until you stabilize your dreaming attention. 
> I don't know about becoming the foreign energy in somebody else's dream though...
> hmm



Castaneda reminds me of the Mormons.  He believes in historical things from which have no evidence.  Juan told him that a race of Indians lived in America thousands of years before humans were even on the continent...hehe.

Mormons believe there were large cities of Jewish people in America from which huge battles etc. occurred, and then Jesus came and talked to them after he was resurrected from the cross.  Even though there is no evidence for Jews in America 2000 years ago....like at all.

So anyways, I refuse to take anything a "shaman" deems as truth to heart...since most of their information comes from being in a state of poor consciousness in the first place.

----------


## Jeff777

> Then I guess the term "night stalker" and "dream walkers" are irrelevant terms...and it might be more prudent to call them walkers and stalkers.



lol

----------


## Sandform

> lol



=D

----------


## jamous

> Castaneda reminds me of the Mormons.  He believes in historical things from which have no evidence.  Juan told him that a race of Indians lived in America thousands of years before humans were even on the continent...hehe.
> 
> Mormons believe there were large cities of Jewish people in America from which huge battles etc. occurred, and then Jesus came and talked to them after he was resurrected from the cross.  Even though there is no evidence for Jews in America 2000 years ago....like at all.
> 
> So anyways, I refuse to take anything a "shaman" deems as truth to heart...since most of their information comes from being in a state of poor consciousness in the first place.



Why are you so vehemently opposed to Castaneda? The Art of Dreaming is really wasted on you if you don't read it with a more open mind. And you wasted your time reading it. It doesn't all have to be totally accurate for some of it to be. I think you seriously failed to grasp the concepts, or you wouldn't be so against it. You ought to read it again, maybe when you're older. But not if you can't accept that the universe might not be exactly like people have told you it is.

----------


## Sandform

> Go fuck yourself Sandform



I already promised that job to someone else =(

----------


## jamous

edit: Why are you so vehemently opposed to Castaneda? The Art of Dreaming is really wasted on you if you don't read it with a more open mind. And you wasted your time reading it. It doesn't all have to be totally accurate for some of it to be. I think you seriously failed to grasp the concepts, or you wouldn't be so against it. You ought to read it again, maybe when you're older. But not if you can't accept that the universe might not be exactly like people have told you it is.

----------


## jamous

anyway, who said anything about taking Castaneda to heart? I don't take anything to heart as you seem to take western scientific thought.

I mean, yeah, you're probably right in your beliefs, but you are simply way to sure of it.

----------


## Silviiro

If there really are "night stalkers" then I invite them all to enter my dreams. If "night stalkers" do not exist, I am sure I will encounter them in my dreams anyway.

----------


## Onthou

Wow, this was interesting. I read the whole thread... took me quite some time. A part of me wants to believe this, but another part is skeptical. If dream walking and dream sharing is possible there is no reason for factions to not have formed. It's rules of basic civilizations, the survival of the fittest and the best way to survive is to hunt in packs.
The reason they fight? I guess it began with NS who just out plain pleasure wanted to do harm and then a coalition formed (DW) to stop them from it. Just like a normal society... there will always be yin and yang. (Binary Opposites).

Whether NS do real damage that is for me not possible (although I do not know much about this subject, just recently started Dream Journaling). I think I do not want to believe that NS can do real damage, it is to scary to think that it is possible.

Dream sharing is a strange avenue... it's in a way kind of romantic. If you and your partner could do dream sharing... nothing could stop to travel to moons and watch the earth set. The idea of this makes me want to seriously try this. To be able to spend that 1/3 of your life spent sleeping in a productive/fun way is so worth the trouble.

Whether there are a secret force (CIA of FBI type) monitoring lucid dreamers... it seems possible (or this might be my Sci-Fi brain kicking in and enjoying the absurdness).

The only problem had is with labmonkey's posts. I know in today's world all one needs to do is believe, but I trust posters like Cusp, for he has spent more time on this subject (I could see that in his posting). Labmonkey might have more experience, but it doesn't show in his posts. He might just be someone cruising by, making things up. And no offence labmonkey, your life sounded horrible, but arent your dreams just an absolute will power to escape from that horribleness (sorry for the bad word). Thus it is only created in your mind.

Here's to lucid dreaming and seeking the truth.

----------


## jamous

The only way I can see it as possible, dream sharing, is according to Carlos Castaneda's rules.

I think, if two were to share a dream, one would not see the same environment as the other, as one's mind is what creates--at least the surface of--the dreaming environment, pretty undeputably. One would somehow sense the other person as "foreign energy"; it is probably rare for one's subconscious to actually recognize the energy and assign a face to it.

I can see how certain elements of the dream might be consistent in a shared dream, which might explain most reported experiences. Generally people find out that their dreams were shared after the fact. I guess in most reported cases their subconsciouses were able to recognize the foreign energy.

Does that make sense?

----------


## ♥Mark

I am a Night Stalker.

----------


## jamous

> I am a Night Stalker.



oh yeah?

----------


## 27

> Castaneda reminds me of the Mormons. He believes in historical things from which have no evidence. Juan told him that a race of Indians lived in America thousands of years before humans were even on the continent...hehe.
> 
> Mormons believe there were large cities of Jewish people in America from which huge battles etc. occurred, and then Jesus came and talked to them after he was resurrected from the cross. Even though there is no evidence for Jews in America 2000 years ago....like at all.
> 
> So anyways, I refuse to take anything a "shaman" deems as truth to heart...since most of their information comes from being in a state of poor consciousness in the first place.



Stop insulting something you obviously don't understand. As a Mormon, I was offended by your post.

----------


## Lex16

Yo Dream Walkers, didn't think I'd be back did you? Ha!
By the Way Midelle, your little pet got viserated, send anything like that again and I will stand before the council challenging you to a fight. And you know you won't win, you know this, otherwise you would not be sending your DW grunts after my blood.
You made a mistake putting a price on my head Richard Midelle, next time I will take yours.

----------


## ClouD

cloudWalkers pwn the shitz DS/NW FTW.

----------


## Lex16

Then join me in my fight, then you can have some of the high ups in the DW's on your tail.

----------


## jedimind

All this dream stalker nonsense is a wishful fantasy. If you encounter one of these dream stalkers in your dream it's because of your own subconscious desire and nothing else. You guys should take up dungeons and dragons!

----------


## nzguy

Wow, just read through the messages since my last post. Extremely interesting topic.

As I was reading, it reminded me of a dream I had when I was about six that was a bit odd. It involved a similar scenario as that described by a lot of other members here - a group of people you don't recognize who you just know are up to no good.

To cut a long dream short, I was basically at home with my family when a bunch of intruders with hand saws broke in and started attacking me. I remember a really strong feeling of fear which I had never experienced and haven't since.

The thing that makes it stand out from any other nightmare is the extreme vividness of the dream and that it has stuck with me for a decade in as much detail as when I woke up. Could be totally unrelated, but I thought I would share it anyway  :smiley:

----------


## ClouD

Check out this site.

You could you know, check it out i mean...

Read.

http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutori...BulletinID=267

----------


## Absolute

Despite the face that this dream war is utterly fascinating, I have yet to be confronted by either of the three parties. Of course, lack of constant lucid dreaming is a problem, but my imagination (both beauty and horror) are nearly endless. I laugh at people when they say they are bored of lucid dreams. How can one lack such imagination? If I had LDs every night, there's no words to describe it.

The one main problem with me obtaining constant lucid dreams is that when I realize I'm dreaming, I become so consumed with the thought of how much power is at my disposal that I literally go mad. I become insane to the point that I feel like my mind is one with evil, and nothing can seem to satisfy my endless thirst for destruction and chaos. But then, I get sucked back into the dream.

Although I may hold such dark secrets in my mind, I hold such beauty as well. I feel properly balanced, but the problem is keeping that balance. Unfortunately, I do not get lucid dreams often. However, if there is anyone capable of entering mine that could aid me in obtaining LDs and mentoring me, I sleep between the hours of 11:30pm - 10:00am GMT -7, USA. Right now it's 1:28 am and I probably won't be asleep for another hour, if anyone catches this in time.

Lucid dreams has always been my prime fascination in life, but I have had extreme difficulty in obtaining this. My imagination is my life. There is never a time when I am not imagining. I want to experience this consciously in my dreams. One way or another, I know I will.

----------


## Lex16

> All this dream stalker nonsense is a wishful fantasy. If you encounter one of these dream stalkers in your dream it's because of your own subconscious desire and nothing else. You guys should take up dungeons and dragons!



GM for ADAD so do not mock me. My brother always taught me, 'Believe what you want to believe.'
If you wish to think there aren't such things as DWs and NS, that is your take, don't force your will upon others which believe.
If you can't comment with a story or experiance or perhaps a question I will kindly ask you not to spam here.

----------


## jamous

Skeptics on here, and without personal evidence I think you really should be skeptical, should try to be more civilized on here with our arguments. We tend to assume it's just bull, but why don't we just ask questions about each individual posted opinion or experience and, then, point out the obvious flaws in people's arguments, but in a non-smug, non-assholish manner. We need be more inquisitive as to fully understand those who _believe_. Does that sound reasonable?

----------


## jamous

Skeptics on here, and without personal evidence I think you really should be skeptical, should try to be more civilized on here with our arguments. We tend to assume it's just bull, but why don't we just ask questions about each individual posted opinion or experience and, then, point out the obvious flaws in people's arguments, but in a non-smug, non-assholish manner. We need be more inquisitive as to fully understand those who _believe_. Does that sound reasonable?

Because I would really like to believe in shared dreaming, I just don't have any concrete reason to believe it's anything more than fantasy.

----------


## Absolute

*sigh*

There are always those who share opposing opinions, but when one denies something without properly studying it and not fully experiencing it is an act of ignorance. No offense to those who do not believe in dream sharing, but the dream world is a place of literally infinite possibilities. I know of few people who have mentioned that they shared a dream together. It is rare on a subconscious level, but on a conscious level, who knows?

Besides, how could one prove it besides sharing the same dream together and being ecstatic of talking about it? You can't physically prove it. So the argument/opinions on the matter are virtually pointless. Just follow your own beliefs. After all, your beliefs create your reality.

Now as far as the dream war goes. Any new tales to share from anyone?

----------


## ClouD

> Then join me in my fight, then you can have some of the high ups in the DW's on your tail.



2am... *yawn*...

btw, i was kidding, more of a reference to my name being cooler than either.

also, it is possible to dreamwalk to those that don't believe.

try it. close a door while lucid (or create a portal, etc.)
and instead of making a new place appear..
_Know_ that you are going to the person's dream that you wish.

it will usually work. see it's very hard to be skeptical while dreaming, even if your lucid..
soooo, check it out..,
and then ask the person (personally) or (if its someone from this thread) just post it here  :smiley:  and see if you really did share a dream.

Also, it is not rare to be able to do this.... but it is still possible you create the dream thought subconsciously yourself.

----------


## Silviiro

There has been plenty of talk about "Night Stalkers" and "Dream Walkers", but what about the "Watchers" that have been mentioned. Who are they? Also, my challenge still stands, any "Night Stalkers" that want to attack my dreams, or have an intelligent conversation in them, please go ahead. Unless of course you are afraid of me.

----------


## Absolute

So there's another faction? How fascinating...

 I have to say though, if I were to speak with a NS, I would want to speak to the Old One who leads them, face to face. I'm sure we'd discuss quite a few interesting topics. Judging by the stories, this dark lady appears to be one of the most competent ones out there in lucid dreaming in regards to this war. I want to know more about her and how this entire fight started. More importantly, what tricks she has up her sleeve.

I also wonder about the DWs as well as this group called 'The Watchers'. Unfortunately, I assume that any of these three groups will not take any interest in contacting me in my dreams. 

Until then, me and Lex are going to have a lot of fun. Perhaps someone of the three will come into a dream that me and Lex are in? As long as we can hook up into the same one.

----------


## jamous

where do the night stalker/dream walker terms come from anyway?

----------


## Absolute

Terms as in their names? The Dark Lady probably named her group the NS and the DW councilors probably named themselves.

Now, as in origins? The only people that could tell the tales are the leaders themselves, or atleast someone from the group.

----------


## jamous

group? Now I'm very confused.

----------


## Absolute

What I meant was, group meaning either someone from the Dream Walkers or the Night Shades/Stalkers could explain the terms for their faction/group and the reasoning behind their war, if any besides control.

This 'war' is so very interesting. This war can be represented in unlimited scenarios with the infinite power of thought. It is so interesting to see the very battle of good and evil affecting those even on a dream level. 

I also have to admit, nothing is more attractive than an evil methodically intelligent female. Those come ever so rarely.  :smiley:

----------


## jamous

> What I meant was, group meaning either someone from the Dream Walkers or the Night Shades/Stalkers could explain the terms for their faction/group and the reasoning behind their war, if any besides control.
> 
> This 'war' is so very interesting. This war can be represented in unlimited scenarios with the infinite power of thought. It is so interesting to see the very battle of good and evil affecting those even on a dream level. 
> 
> I also have to admit, nothing is more attractive than an evil methodically intelligent female. Those come ever so rarely.



where did this war originate?

----------


## Absolute

You're asking the wrong person. I am as clueless as you are, but also vastly interested in discovering that answer.

----------


## Lex16

> where did this war originate?



Long before even my time as a Dreamer. The terms were adopted before I even knew about them. As for the true origins of the name I can not be sure but they react to it when you call them that.
There are infact more than 3 groups, I just out lined the most important, there is another group that is quite interesting. They offer psychic healing of some kind to those that have been attacked by either group, they help all, but I haven't seen them very often.

@Absolute, give me time, you caught me unprepared to take students!  ::shock::

----------


## Absolute

So you're saying the Dream Walkers attack people too?

----------


## Sanzora

> So you're saying the Dream Walkers attack people too?



No... But the healers are neutral. They heal DWs and NSs alike - they will not interfere with the balance.

----------


## Absolute

How very interesting. Do the healers have a name?

----------


## Vortex

I first heard the name "Dream Walker" about 17 years ago. I'd just had my first LD, I didn't know what they were, or even that there was a name for it, so I did some research into it, and had a couple more. Not long after I met a man who called himself a Dream Walker, I told him what had happened to me and he smiled and said the same thing had happened to him many years before and that now he was conscience in his dreams every night, I asked him more questions but he wouldn't answer them, he disappeared not long after, and I haven't seen him since.

----------


## The Cusp

> I first heard the name "Dream Walker" about 17 years ago. I'd just had my first LD, I didn't know what they were, or even that there was a name for it, so I did some research into it, and had a couple more. Not long after I met a man who called himself a Dream Walker, I told him what had happened to me and he smiled and said the same thing had happened to him many years before and that now he was conscience in his dreams every night, I asked him more questions but he wouldn't answer them, he disappeared not long after, and I haven't seen him since.



How did you meet this guy?  Was he just standing on the corner telling everyone who walked by he was a dream walker?  Seems and odd conversation to have with anyone, how did it start?


Here's a link I found to some shared dreaming info.  It references a book I'm going to try to find on the subject.  The best part are the skills and prerequisites they mention that are needed for shared dreaming are all met by keeping a DJ on this site.  
http://members.aol.com/dreampsi/arch...ualdream1.html

----------


## Silviiro

Until a "Night Stalker" decides to attack me I will assume that they fear me. Yes Night Stalkers, I will insult you until you decide to fight me.

----------


## Vortex

> How did you meet this guy?  Was he just standing on the corner telling everyone who walked by he was a dream walker?  Seems and odd conversation to have with anyone, how did it start?



He was looking for a place to stay, him and his pregnant girlfriend were travelling and had just arrived in the area, they needed somewhere to stay while she had the baby.

----------


## italianmonkey

it doesn't sound that new......
there loooooots of similar myths in different cultures and historical periods.
google "benandanti" for an example.

i'm not saying it's true or false.
i'ts just a nice subject to write stories or daydream about!

----------


## MisterHyde

> Until a "Night Stalker" decides to attack me I will assume that they fear me. Yes Night Stalkers, I will insult you until you decide to fight me.



Quite possibly a bad idea.  You've never met one and assume they fear you.  And because of this you insult them?  I did this, and I am now caught up in quite a little fight with them.  And don't think torment stops at being hurt.  Couple of days ago one of them had a gun against my grandmother's head and threatened to kill her unless I gave them information which just didn't exist (something to do with information about treasure being hidden in the lyrics of California Dreaming).  It took a lot to get out of that situation...

I'm not trying to sway your beliefs one way or another, just giving you a little warning.  If you give them reason to come find you, they will.  They don't need to know who you are, they already know from your ID on this forum.  But hey, have fun...

----------


## Michael

> Quite possibly a bad idea.  You've never met one and assume they fear you.  And because of this you insult them?  I did this, and I am now caught up in quite a little fight with them.  And don't think torment stops at being hurt.  Couple of days ago one of them had a gun against my grandmother's head and threatened to kill her unless I gave them information which just didn't exist (something to do with information about treasure being hidden in the lyrics of California Dreaming).  It took a lot to get out of that situation...
> 
> I'm not trying to sway your beliefs one way or another, just giving you a little warning.  If you give them reason to come find you, they will.  They don't need to know who you are, they already know from your ID on this forum.  But hey, have fun...



this is just in your dreams right? I mean where they hold your grandmother hostage.

----------


## italianmonkey

> (something to do with information about treasure being hidden in the *lyrics of California Dreaming*).



gosh.... that sure was insane ::shock:: 




> I'm not trying to sway your beliefs one way or another, just giving you a little warning. If you give them reason to come find you, they will. They don't need to know who you are, they already know from your ID on this forum. But hey, have fun...



come ooooooooon, is it _that_ fun to scare the newbies? ::roll::

----------


## MisterHyde

> this is just in your dreams right? I mean where they hold your grandmother hostage.



Indeed it was.  Since I knew I was dreaming, it was slightly less scary, but still, not exactly something you want to come face to face with...





> come ooooooooon, is it that fun to scare the newbies?



Honestly wasn't trying to scare the newbie, just thought it was a touch balls out to go ahead and insult something they might not understand and certainly seemed to underestimate.  Apologies to all concerned and will try to keep my temper in check a little from now on  :Oops:

----------


## italianmonkey

don't worry, i'm not a moderator!
anyway, i don't thing anything/one dangerous, if it exist, would never waste its/his time to bother an innocent guy that writes posts in a board, moved by nothing but idle curiosity. and if it did, being scared or overconfident wouldn't change a dot.

----------


## Silviiro

> Quite possibly a bad idea.  You've never met one and assume they fear you.  And because of this you insult them?  I did this, and I am now caught up in quite a little fight with them.  And don't think torment stops at being hurt.  Couple of days ago one of them had a gun against my grandmother's head and threatened to kill her unless I gave them information which just didn't exist (something to do with information about treasure being hidden in the lyrics of California Dreaming).  It took a lot to get out of that situation...
> 
> I'm not trying to sway your beliefs one way or another, just giving you a little warning.  If you give them reason to come find you, they will.  They don't need to know who you are, they already know from your ID on this forum.  But hey, have fun...



 I have had regular lucids that were much worse. I actually discovered lucid dreaming accidentally because I recognized patterns in my reoccuring nightmares. Unfortunately I accidentally just made my nightmares more vivid. Later when I learned how to control the dreams nightmares actually became fun.

----------


## Absolute

> Later when I learned how to control the dreams nightmares actually became fun.



 :smiley:  And I thought I was the only one!

You should attempt to come visit me in my dreams and help me become lucid. I'm sure we could share some interesting experiences together.

----------


## Silviiro

My challenge still stands. Yes this is a bump.

----------


## tkdyo

my bad if this has been asked already but there are too many pages to go through...

If these Night Stalkers can find victims through forums, how in the world do they know what your mind is compared to anyone else who is just a text name on this forum?  Short if you keep an online dream journal which I could see them reading and then being able to recognize your dreams.  But if you dont have that then how can they recognize your mind?

----------


## durza2016

How do you know that these night stalker's aren't just DC's. Maybe there are DC's that when you sense them they are really human, but in reality it's a DC. I mean, how would you know it's a nightstalker by just senseing them. Maybe there are DC's that just act like that.

----------


## The Cusp

Question to the people who think they may have had a NS visitation:  Have any of your NS had a limp?  THis is just for the more recent dreams of the last month or two.

----------


## Vortex

Male, shortish grey hair and a limp - yeah?

----------


## Michael

> Question to the people who think they may have had a NS visitation:  Have any of your NS had a limp?  THis is just for the more recent dreams of the last month or two.



Why, are you a NS? Please invade my dreams, I like nightmares. But I dont believe it's possible thats why I would like it to happen.

----------


## The Cusp

> Male, shortish grey hair and a limp - yeah?



MisterHyde had a limper as well.  I can't help thinking that was my handiwork.   After I spiked that guy through the foot up into his leg, I began to notice a limping attacker in different people's dream journals.

I felt that wasn't your average attack I unleashed on that guy, and I wonder if I didn't do some lasting damage.  I wonder if that only affects his dream body, or carried over into the waking world as well?





> Why, are you a NS? Please invade my dreams, I like nightmares. But I dont believe it's possible thats why I would like it to happen.



Nope, not me.  Or at least not yet.  Besides, I have better things to do than torment every shmuck who calls me out.  If I was going to go after anyone, it would be TheGnome, hit him with some proof upside the head.

If you really want to make youself a target, keep a dream journal here and work on your recall.  The only reason I could see for tormenting people in dreams is that you get to read about yourself in their journals.

----------


## Acertine

I'm not going to say I believe this, for the most part I think this is just some game that someone started and too many people have bought into it,

but I will play along cause at the moment this thread has caught my interest

bear with me if these questions have been asked before, but I don't feel like reading 13 pages of people boasting about something that may be a total and complete sham 

anyway, few quick questions and comments

these night stalkers come into your dreams and attack you right? well, if they are coming into your dreams, doesn't that put them on your turf, give you an amazing advantage? seems kinda like going and fighting a guy in impenatrable armor with an infinite arsenal backing him up, the only way I can see a night stalker winning is if he attacks someone who has little or no dream control

second, how can he control anything if he is in your dream, your realm of subconcious? if he can actually get into your dream, in order to do anything he would have to have some sort of control over your thoughts, which is pretty silly from my point of view, no one or no thing can make you think something you don't want to

so to me, if this is real, not saying if it is or isnt

the only targets of the nightstalkers could only be the weak minded 

and where do dream walkers come into play here, are they supposed to be like the knights in shining armor going into the dreams of the weak minded getting attacked and trying to protect them or something

all in all, pretty trippy, fairly ammusing, and you have peaked my curiosity, i will have to check back to this thread and maybe read back and get some more information

and to end my post, I will administer a sort of challenge, if this is real and there are really nightstalkers (still not going to take a side on this one), maybe pay me a visit in my dreams sometime, I like to fancy myself a very creative person when it comes to the ways of the mind, the conversations I have with people have strengthened my belief that I am not the ordinary thinker, pay me a visit in the sub-concious realm and you may find yourself on a ride that you didn't sign up for

on the other hand, this could still be a load of the stinky stuff and im just giving someone some laughs when he or she reads my post

----------


## Acertine

Oh and as a forgotten side note, 

Who is this Castenada guy? 

I read alot and I have never heard of him, I will have to search him and get some of the books he has written, sounds to me like he preaches a lot of modern day magic and hocus pocus, controlling otherworldly energies nonsense, but I could use a nice humorous dose of crap in my life so I might pick up his book

----------


## The Cusp

> second, how can he control anything if he is in your dream, your realm of subconcious? if he can actually get into your dream, in order to do anything he would have to have some sort of control over your thoughts, which is pretty silly from my point of view, no one or no thing can make you think something you don't want to



I would say there is nothing they can do to you directly, but they could trick you into doing harm to yourself.  If I were to imagine up a monster to attack you, and you pay too much attention to it, then it's not me sustaining the image of the monster, it's you.  Then I could leave and you'd still be fighting against yourself.

I find the theory aspect of dream combat really interesting.  Where physical violence is pretty much inconsequential, it boils down to clever mind games.

----------


## Acertine

that still doesnt answer my question, if they are in your dreams, in your realm so to speak, how are they able to conjure up any sort of an image, may it be a monster or some fluffy bunny, its my mind, therefore the only images taking place can only be made up by me, correct? they would have to exert some sort of control over my mind in order to do anything and I just wouldn't let that happen

----------


## Jeff777

This would make a kickass RPG.  You have the...

Dream Walkers = Good faction
Night Stalkers = Bad faction
Rogues = Rebels without a cause
Healers = Neutral LD'ers that heal the factions
Civies = LD'ers who don't know what's going on

It'd be really cool if you could learn dreamsharing and be able to join in the battle.  Granted you're not afraid of death.

----------


## C911

I agree, and i think if anyone had enough power in a lucid to really put down a Night Stalker, it would be a kool fight. And if everyone else had really good dream walking skills, you could beat up a NS in front of a crowd.

----------


## MisterHyde

> Male, shortish grey hair and a limp - yeah?



Curious, mine was a guy with shortish grey hair and a limp.  Very over confident in his abilities.  His limp should be significantly worse.  I played mind games with him to the point where he was on the floor, terrified, begging me to leave him alone, then shot him in both kneecaps with a sawed off shotgun.





> How do you know that these night stalker's aren't just DC's. Maybe there are DC's that when you sense them they are really human, but in reality it's a DC. I mean, how would you know it's a nightstalker by just senseing them. Maybe there are DC's that just act like that.



I've replied to this question a few times around this forum.  In short, DC either have nothing behind them when you sense them, or when you sense them, they are you.  NS have emotions, intelligence, motives, reasoning.  I too have questioned this, if NS are just DCs, but the thing is, you cannot change them.  The NS I tormented at first was hidden, like a shadow, so I made a spotlight to show me who he was...except he stayed as a shadow even under the spotlight.

I also wouldn't agree that the only people who can get attacked by an NS is a weak minded person.  It is mind games.  As TheCusp said, if they make something, and you focus on it, you're sustaining it, not them.  Another NS who I also dealt with tried to slash at me with a sword, which I ignored and it passed through me with no effect, but then she pulled out a scaffolding pole which threw me, and I focused on it, and it hurt me.  This said, I normally mix the two types of combat.  I reverse the sensing ability so I am preying on their fears and weaknesses inside their minds, until they are so scared, so terrified, they want it all to end, then go after them with "physical" force.





> I agree, and i think if anyone had enough power in a lucid to really put down a Night Stalker, it would be a kool fight. And if everyone else had really good dream walking skills, you could beat up a NS in front of a crowd.



I like this idea.  Like a shared LD version of roman gladiators.  Interesting concept...  Maybe those who can share dreams might want to develop this if it is possible at all?

----------


## Acertine

> ...I also wouldn't agree that the only people who can get attacked by an NS is a weak minded person. It is mind games. As TheCusp said, if they make something, and you focus on it, you're sustaining it, not them....



Ok, seriously now, I am now having to point out the flaw in this yet again cause no one pays attention

my brain, my rules, my control

they cant "will" anything into my sub-concious cause its... what? thats right! mine, maybe they can follow me around and bug me, call me names like a school yard bully, (then they would get royal ass kicking) but other than that, as long as they are on my turf they cant do a damn thing

so yes, it is the weak minded that could only get hurt, cause its the weak minded that would get scared of these things therefore giving them the power to control things in your universe

still, talking completely subjectively, still not convinced that any of this is anymore than someones little joke on the forum

----------


## Xaqaria

I won't insult anyone who believes these sorts of things to be true, because I'm sure it makes your dreams much more interesting, but thats all it is; your dreams. What evidence to do any of you have that any of this is true, other than word of mouth and evidence from within your dreams?

----------


## labmonkeywork

Hey Acertine,

You can read my earlier posts as to what I think of NS. I've never heard of the funny groups before, but I use the terms for a vaguely expressed common language... but I think you are way overconfident. Besides, a shared dream is just that... you are in each other's heads.

For instance, if I were to have a dream with you in it you could equally say that you had a dream with me in it. You are on common ground. The only person to rule the dream-scape is the one who intimidates the other. If you truly believe that you rule everything in a shared dream... maybe then you have enough self confidence or ignorance to actually pull it off. 

To say that someone can't will something into you during a shared dream is flawed. It's their turf, too. They also can do whatever they want...

---

Oh, and you guys wanting all the proof as to the reality of this. I'm not giving it to you. There are innocent parties involved, and I'm sure that is what the other true shared dreamers think, too. Stop asking. If you don't believe it, bask in your ignorance. Stay safe. It is a very large and dangerous world out there.

---

Also, can you get hurt in a shared dream? Hell yes. The implications are psychological and you can get people to hurt themselves in waking life. It's screwed up yes, but you can also help people using the same tools...still controlling the dream but providing different content and striking different sections of someone else's mind to incur or support better behavior.

---

No, I don't do drugs.

----------


## Acertine

ok, I haven't being reading anything about the "shared" dream aspect of it so thats why I was getting confused

but doesn't a person have to "want" to have a shared dream in order to have a shared dream? 

personally, I have had many shared dreams with my closest friend Damon before, but lots of the time at some point in the dream we pull away into our own dreamscapes, its kinda like, hey i want to go see what damon is doing, then its like, ok im done with that now, lets go do something else, and I know it is an actual shared dream because me and him talk about them all the time and confirm things that happened and we tested it a few times by I would tell him something in the dream and the next day he would call me up and tell me what I had told him in the dream, word for word, or vice versa, so I know thats real, but I have never been in a shared dream if I didn't want to be, its kinda like fighting someone, if you dont want to, just walk away

so if you dont want to have one of these fighting each other shared dream things, wouldn't this NS have to pull you into the shared dreamscape by force? to me that doesn't seem possible 

but maybe it is I just don't know because it hasn't happened to me yet, but as I said before, say this is all possible, if or/and when this does happen to me, I'm pretty sure I would be able to handle myself, im not trying to be cocky but I learned at a very young age how to master dreams

and yet another disclaimer to these posts, I won't be convinced that any of this is real until it happens, not a challenge, not asking for anyone to prove it to me, if they wanted to prove anything they would do it right? im just a skeptic at heart and I hope I always will be, because a person that believes in absolutes is and absolute idiot, i think that was a quote by someone but I can't remember...

----------


## The Cusp

> Curious, mine was a guy with shortish grey hair and a limp.  Very over confident in his abilities.  His limp should be significantly worse.  I played mind games with him to the point where he was on the floor, terrified, begging me to leave him alone, then shot him in both kneecaps with a sawed off shotgun.
> 
> ...The NS I tormented at first was hidden, like a shadow, so I made a spotlight to show me who he was...except he stayed as a shadow even under the spotlight.



Funny, he was shadowy to me as well, never saw gray hair.  Looked pretty much like Jason from Friday the 13th, but I couldn't see his face, which was lost in shadow.  His head was pretty much just a featureless pool of darkness.  

Now that you mention the shadowy part, I think I can recognize Limpy's visits in my DJ, before he had the limp.  Shadowy face, nigh indestructible, he pretty much just literally stalks you slowly and relentlessly, inducing fear.   He's pretty slow and I've never seen him display much ability besides invincibility.

But I don't think your shotgun blast would have a lasting effect, when I gave him that limp, it wasn't your average attack.  There was something special about it, different I can't describe.   Almost like I knew what I was doing.

----------


## The Cusp

Assuming there are dream walkers and they are targeting people from this board, it would stand to reason the targets would be the victims of the same people.

We seem to have identified Limpy, no, let's call him *Gimpy*!  I just can't imagine this guy as belonging to any faction.  More likely someone who came to these boards claiming he could dreamwalk and you guys made fun of him.  And now he stalks these boards for revenge! Mouhahahahah!  You never know...

Another possible individual I'd like to see if anyone else has encountered, I'm going to call the *ThumbMaster. * This guy is good, he knows what he's doing dreamwise, and his specialty seems to be torture/interrogation.  Looked to be in his late forties, but that doesn't mean much.  I'd recognize this guy more by his techniques.  I believe the interrogating he does is solely for the purpose of captivating your attention, since he never asked about anything important.

In my case he had me in a room and dug his thumb into my shoulder, then dragged it across the muscles and tendons, letting me know he could make it hurt at any time.  In retrospect, this was brilliant on his part, because it made me acutely aware of both his thumb, and my flesh, making it more real in my mind.  This guy knows how to captivate your attention.

You know, if such things are possible.  I just wanted an excuse to use that title.  But seriously, anyone else recognize the ThumbMaster from that description, or even Gimpy by his shadowy behavior and or short gray hair before he started limping?

----------


## Meakel

Cooooolllll......I am bit sceptical, and won't fully believe it but I _want_ to believe it. I think I have met someone. Not sure who or what it was though. Was a dude in a flowing black cloak. Very.....anime. Much fighting I remember. Think Naruto or Bleach fights, but more fast paced. Was fun. I remember beheading him, he vaporised, and that was it.

----------


## TempleGuard

This seems too real (i fuckin hope it isnt), but that makes me not wanna do lucids (or do more). Is there someone (non-evil please) who want to have a "shared dream" with me. Non-harming please. I am like affraid of a lot of things, dark, my bedroom other shits.. And i see this dream walking like a cool thing. Is there some good guy willing to do this with me ::roll::  ::roll::

----------


## italianmonkey

pleeeease temple don't let those kids scare you
no way to find trouble if you don't look for it
probably neither if you do...
go on with your business and take it easy
seriously

----------


## TempleGuard

> pleeeease temple don't let those kids scare you
> no way to find trouble if you don't look for it
> probably neither if you do...
> go on with your business and take it easy
> seriously



Well i am sceptipal about shits most of the time (but i know inside me i am not so much), but when reading about the out of body expiriences and now that shit, its hm looking real. Well i am a bit a "crazy" person, cant stay alone in a dark room without freak out like a biatch, may be cuz of this i am looking for some explanation of what it could be. Oh this post got fucked up. I look funny, ye? :Eek:

----------


## italianmonkey

not much.
anyway the more you feel at home in your dreamworld, the less you have to fear. so no reason to get slowed down by this kind of worrying.
we all have a child inside that so DAMN believe in fairy tales, and there's no way to convince him they're not real.
so it's better sometimes to take them as "adventures" than as "nightmares". that is something that child Can understand.

----------


## Idec Sdawkminn

This would be an awesome way to become lucid for the first time. Too bad I probably wouldn't remember it.

----------


## The Cusp

> not much.
> anyway the more you feel at home in your dreamworld, the less you have to fear. so no reason to get slowed down by this kind of worrying.
> we all have a child inside that so DAMN believe in fairy tales, and there's no way to convince him they're not real.
> so it's better sometimes to take them as "adventures" than as "nightmares". that is something that child Can understand.



If there are such things as NS, you're just asking for it!  I'm keeping an eye on your DJ!

----------


## Lucidbulbs

Yeah, Cusp is right, you're really begging for NSs to come after you, I think they prefer the ones who deny their existence the most. Would make it easier for them to give you a horrific 'adventure.'

So Cusp, now you're on NS patrol? Is that why you love to read other people's DJs?

----------


## The Cusp

I suppose I am unofficially.  It's hard to commit when I'm still skeptical myself.  Plus I haven't seen any sign of anything unusual in my dreams since that rash of possible ones.

I'm not so sure the DJ section is such a good place to look for NS anymore.  There are a lot of really skilled people who keep DJs here, and even the newbs seem to be learning amazingly fast.  The kind of people you don't want to mess with when they're lucid.

I'm starting to think these NS aren't so tough at all.

----------


## italianmonkey

> If there are such things as NS, you're just asking for it! I'm keeping an eye on your DJ!



why? i am not provoking anyone! i'm just saying that, true or not all this stuff be, a prepared dreamer gets better odds than a frightened newb to wake up smiling and not screaming! ::roll:: 

if i'm a skeptic, that's just "being rational"
if i'm a believer, that's "good strategy"

i am a fan of the "skepti-committed" pair too ::lol:: ,
so i suppose it's both.

anyway you're nice offering your help, i like chivalry in boys - soooo romantic :Oops:  :tongue2:  )

(love this thread ::D: )

----------


## The Cusp

I had some insight as to why NS would be up to such nasty behaviour.  You'd think they'd have something better to do right?

I think the goal is not so much to torment people, but to learn advanced dream arts.  I believe the key aspect is where you focus your attention, and being able to work with somebody else's attention is a fantastic learning experience.  

In retrospect, I found my exchanges with the NS to be very informative.  Their intent may not be malicious, it just happens to be an excellent method of training.

I've also revise my definition of attacks in this situation.  It's not really an attack at all, it's more like making a play in some sport.

----------


## Lucidbulbs

A play really? That's quite an interesting way to put it, though I can sort of see where you're coming from. 

A play of constant improvising of lines. But the goal? Not to excellently improvise lines and roles, but to make the puppet follow the lines without even consciously aware of doing so... interesting...

----------


## italianmonkey

i think i stopped understanding what you two are saying a pair of posts ago....

"play" sounds nice, though

----------


## italianmonkey

> Yeah, Cusp is right, you're really begging for NSs to come after you, I think they prefer the ones who deny their existence the most. Would make it easier for them to give you a horrific 'adventure.'



i didn't notice this sentence...

no worry for this, i'm skeptic when awake, but shameless believer when asleep ::D:

----------


## Lucidbulbs

That's good, at least that gives you an edge

----------


## italianmonkey

we are monopolizing the thread

love this thread

i SO have to write a short story about this!

----------


## Silviiro

Please, attack me night stalkers if you really exist. Unless of course one of you was the strange energy I absorbed a few months ago. In which case I applaud your wisdom not to come back.

----------


## Eonnn

I recently found out that what I have been fighting with for the past few years are not demons they are shadow beings, which are also known as night stalkers and dream walkers. I know a lot about these beings and how to protect yourself so i shall share what I know.

These beings feed off negative energy, the most potent kind being fear. They exist on the lower astral planes, as such they have mental/spiritual abilities the main one being able to enter your dreams. The reason they incite fear within you is not just to feed off the energy giving them more power, but as a way to try and materialise into our physical reality. In the past I would fight them to no avail, because they could feed off the anger as well. However, a few times I did land a couple of lucky strikes and wound the beasts. They can appear as any dream character but they will act differently from regular dream characters - usually trying to hurt you for their pleasure. They also have a strong evil presence about them that you can sense intuitively. The only true way to beat them is to turn them away from evil, fear and negativity and towards good, happiness and positivity. All you really have to do is think about the most pleasant fun time you have ever had. Recreate the feeling and once you feel that feeling, amplify it by concentrating on the feeling alone (note this is a good thing to do whether your being attacked or not). Remember the quote "there is nothing to fear but fear itself"? well this is so true in this case. I have converted one of these shadow beings before when it was holding on to me while i experienced a joyful moment in the dream, the feeling went through the being and it vanished instantly - it had seen the good side of the force so to speak. So to protect yourself, just be happy and surround yourself in the feeling of happiness. Don't be fearful otherwise it will get through the energy shield of happiness that you are projecting. If you are in trouble and something really bad is happening, force yourself awake and you will be safe once back in the physical reality - don't go back to sleep straight away.. walk around and do something else for 10-20 mins before going back to sleep. The shadow being I said i converted earlier.. I was fighting with him all night long in every single dream.

If you don't want to encounter them in the first place, ask your guide/god/the creator/higherself/mother earth whatever deity that you place your faith/trust in to watch over you as you sleep. You can also ask for specific things to take place in your dream, or ask for anything troubling your mind to be worked out in the dream. You can even ask to be healed while you sleep and to be re-energised for the next day when you wake up. Likewise, you could ask for a lucid dream but just remember that the mind does require normal dreams to unwind, and dont forget to thank your deity.

----------


## The Cusp

Eonnn, when you're talking about shadow beings, are you talking about other people in your dreams, or some form of elemental, thought form, or inoganic being?





> A play really? That's quite an interesting way to put it, though I can sort of see where you're coming from. 
> 
> A play of constant improvising of lines. But the goal? Not to excellently improvise lines and roles, but to make the puppet follow the lines without even consciously aware of doing so... interesting...



Actually, I was going more for a sports analogy.  

Say there are two lucid dreamers "fighting", the both know everything is only a dream.  So the first one sends a wave of fire at the other.  Chances are good the second guy will be able to overcome it, but at this point the first guy has set a play in motion.  Now the ball is the second guy's court so to speak, in how he chooses to deal with this obstacle.  

I guess a move in chess would be a better description.  You can make an attack that you know won't work, but it may force you opponent to react in a certain way, physically and emotionally.

----------


## Eonnn

> Eonnn, when you're talking about shadow beings, are you talking about other people in your dreams, or some form of elemental, thought form, or inoganic being?



I am talking about shadow beings - evil negative beings existing within the lower astral realms that can appear as other people in your dreams.

I have seen them with my own eyes.. I wake up from the dream holding onto a dream character that i'm fighting and when im back in my room all i can see is this completely black creature fighting with me, it quickly disappears and sends me back into the dreamstate only to wake a second later thinking "was that a dream or was that real?". I believe this is another ability they possess.. to be able to put you back in the dreamstate when you are not yet fully conscious, so you think it was all a dream like a false awakening that was frightenly realistic.

----------


## ClouD

This insatiable thread, continues to eat.

If these things really exist, i suggest having a tea party with them.

I doubt there's much negative energy in sacred green tea.

----------


## Fergie1

> This insatiable thread, continues to eat.
> 
> If these things really exist, i suggest having a tea party with them.
> 
> I doubt there's much negative energy in sacred green tea.



Go read this.

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=18654

----------


## ClouD

> Go read this.
> 
> http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=18654



Excuse me?

Your point is?

Try to stay on topic. I did.

What i said was not sarcastic.

I can give you a very lengthy background on the effects of tea, and also mythology, it's relation to evil spirits, and also it's supposed sacred origins.

----------


## Fergie1

You're the one that went Off Topic, you're the one that started talking about negative energy in green tea,  :wink2:  which some people (not me) may take as a piss take.

----------


## ClouD

Bodhidharma, one of the greatest masters of meditation in the history of humankind. 

He was concentrating on something, something outward.
His eyes would blink and the concentration would be lost, so he tore off his eyelids.
He tore off his eyelids, threw them away, and concentrated.

After a few weeks, he saw some plants growing on the spot where he had thrown his eyelids.

This happened on a mountain in China, and the mountain's name is Tah, or Ta. Hence, the name `tea'.
Those plants which were growing became tea, and that is why tea helps you to be awake.

When your eyes are blinking and you are falling down into sleep, take a cup of tea.
Those are Bodhidharma's eyelids.

That is why Zen monks consider tea to be sacred.
--
Also
--
Mugwort leaves, which were believed to ward off evil spirits, are commonly used with tea.
For that particular superstitious reason, it is believed that they can help you back to health, because you are possibly being haunted by an evil spirit.

*Edit*
Those people who believe as such, can choose to do so.
I do not appreciate being linked to a thread, which i have read and consulted multiple times, just for the "benefit" of others.

Also, if one were to look at my posts, they would realize i am not the type, to be sarcastic, past any point of passivity.

----------


## Howie

::|:

----------


## cece23

> So far, I've been turned to stone, hypnotically enslaved, interrogated, tortured with excessive gravity, made to pick the skin of my hand apart, tortured AND interrogated, interrogated, and put through some sort of pinball torture.  Notice I stopped keeping score.



When you say "pinball torture" what do you mean?  I had a real strange dream recently and I am curious if what happened to you is anything like what I dreamed.  Obviously I don't want to say what I dreamed in case it influences your recall, but you have me VERY curious now.

----------


## The Cusp

Hmmm... that's a good question.  I can't remember.  To the dream journalmobile!

Ahh... here we go!

06-16-2007
*Pinball Man*
*Clarity*: 2/10
*Importance*: 4/10
*Sleep*: Deep
I'm *observing* my body, which has white ropes *tied* to my wrists and ankles, pulled tight and stretching off out of sight.  A giant *silver pinball* is rolled up against my body, and it begins to push me backwards, pulling the ropes *tight* like a giant slingshot.

Once the ball can't push me back anymore, the ropes fling me forward, launching the giant metal *sphere* with my body.

I didn't mention that it hurt like hell!

----------


## cece23

My dream was different, though I felt a lot of pain in mine, that is what got me curious about yours.

I dreamt I was playing a game of pinball with someone, the board was big as if I was seen the game up very close.  The ball then somehow shot out of the game and into my body.  The person I was with got a lot of fun out this.  Reminds me of those electric shock games you can buy for "fun".  What was so horrible about this dream was I felt the momentum of the metal ball going down into my stomach, gradually increasing in pain until finally it hit the bottom of my stomach with a massive impact. The pain was so vivid that I wonder if my stomach was actually hurting IRL.  I was told the aim of the game was to finally pass the ball through the other end and then try and sort through the sh*t to find it.  Weird dream!  (and so very off topic - sorry!)

----------


## labmonkeywork

> I am talking about shadow beings - evil negative beings existing within the lower astral realms that can appear as other people in your dreams.
> 
> I have seen them with my own eyes.. I wake up from the dream holding onto a dream character that i'm fighting and when im back in my room all i can see is this completely black creature fighting with me, it quickly disappears and sends me back into the dreamstate only to wake a second later thinking "was that a dream or was that real?". I believe this is another ability they possess.. to be able to put you back in the dreamstate when you are not yet fully conscious, so you think it was all a dream like a false awakening that was frightenly realistic.



I know EXACTLY what you are talking about (no pun intended with Morpheus avatar).

I saw these "shadow people" all the time when I was younger, but I see them far less nowadays unless I intercept someone else being plagued by these same creatures (if I can call them that).

I agree: they can and will pull you back into dreams, but they are a consciousness just like us and can be persuaded or controlled. I built up my confidence over the years and made a small study on these things. After breaking their will to fight - not a "physical" encounter but a fight to dominate whose mind - I would target them and pull them against their will into my mind. It feels like breathing in something inside of me or ingesting a large quantity of liquids while it is actively trying to escape.

I would study the link between us and my target. Sometimes it is actually a person, but they don't have a strong enough connection at first and that is why they show up as a blob while awake or asleep. If you study them correctly, mostly its just a human that has now been frightened to all hell because you trapped their mind.

Other times, I breathe in the whole target and I can't find a rational person inside. Here I tend to think that they are what you say in "lower levels of the astral plane" and not people... or they are an insane human... not to say that I truly am  ::D: 

Takes one to know one.

Rest assured. You have to purge your target from yourself after you are done with them or else you'll make yourself sick in the head.

Did you ever bring the "shadow people" inside of you? What was your experience?

----------


## The Cusp

How about that Nightmare Man in the show Heroes?  A perfect example of a Night Stalker.  Can't wait to see more of that and what they do with it.

----------


## Eonnn

> I know EXACTLY what you are talking about (no pun intended with Morpheus avatar).
> 
> I saw these "shadow people" all the time when I was younger, but I see them far less nowadays unless I intercept someone else being plagued by these same creatures (if I can call them that).
> 
> I agree: they can and will pull you back into dreams, but they are a consciousness just like us and can be persuaded or controlled. I built up my confidence over the years and made a small study on these things. After breaking their will to fight - not a "physical" encounter but a fight to dominate whose mind - I would target them and pull them against their will into my mind. It feels like breathing in something inside of me or ingesting a large quantity of liquids while it is actively trying to escape.
> 
> I would study the link between us and my target. Sometimes it is actually a person, but they don't have a strong enough connection at first and that is why they show up as a blob while awake or asleep. If you study them correctly, mostly its just a human that has now been frightened to all hell because you trapped their mind.
> 
> Other times, I breathe in the whole target and I can't find a rational person inside. Here I tend to think that they are what you say in "lower levels of the astral plane" and not people... or they are an insane human... not to say that I truly am 
> ...



I have never done this, I would be fearful of becoming possessed. Out of curiousity, what technique/method do you use to bring them into your mind and trap them? and to study them?

I have done some research on this topic, and i know the truth about Lex and her counterpart (I believe Cusp knows now too). Before I devulge the information here, I will give Lex and her counterpart a chance to fess up and tell the truth.

Cusp: turns out nightstalkers/dreamwalkers aren't the same things as shadow beings/demons after all.

----------


## pepsibluefan

Whatever the case, since I discovered this fourm. I will warn night stalkers, if you enter my dreams. You've enter your worst nightmare. You will see things you wish you never seen, if you meet me. You better pray to God you can get away before I can come to you. (You don't want to see the "Freddy" side of me) 

 Anyways lol, I would LOVE to be a dreamwalker, and help people out of there nightmares and try to help them turn it into a dream.  :smiley:

----------


## tkdyo

I would just like to get to lucid dreaming so I can explore these things and see if dream sharing is really real as you all claim....I want to try it for myself, and share dreams with my gf who is across the ocean, that would be really sweet...

----------


## italianmonkey

> How about that Nightmare Man in the show Heroes? A perfect example of a Night Stalker. Can't wait to see more of that and what they do with it.



that's a perfect example of a Spoiler :tongue2: 
have mercy of poor europeans that are still at season 1 ::lol::

----------


## italianmonkey

> Anyways lol, I would LOVE to be a dreamwalker, and help people out of there nightmares and try to help them turn it into a dream.



you're the first in this topic daydreaming about something nobler than some free kickassing 
sweet of you :Oops:

----------


## TempleGuard

> that's a perfect example of a Spoiler
> have mercy of poor europeans that are still at season 1



Dont worry, most of the people watching it just download the new episodes  :smiley:  .

----------


## italianmonkey

i don't.....
anyway i'm spoiler friendly in a limit.

OT. that's Ot. sorry, thread hijacked  :smiley: 

who's Lex?

----------


## Kamickalo

Bring. It. On.

Right here, tonight. Let's do this.

Give me a challenge, my life has been rather boring lately.

----------


## Lex16

I am Lex.

I heard there was someone here who has supposide documents that can out myself and Sanz...what's it supoose to contain that will make other people who have seen the D.W's and the N.S suddenly change their minds. From the start I have been honest about my experiances and there is nothing you, Eonnn, or your little scaps of paper can do to change my mind or the minds of the dreamers that have seen this for themselves.

This thread was started with a smple question, 'Anyone else met the Night Stalkers and Dream Walkers?' It was a question, that could be answered with a simple yes or no, this thread was changed by the other dreamers here who are interested in what is going on. If you are a non-believer I ask you to leave this thread and make comments else where because those here don't wish to hear what you have to say.

And if you wish to do a personal attack on either me or my allies then I suggest you have the guts to come to my in private and discuss it. These attacks are a pain and I do not have the time to find all your little posts and reply to them.

As for those that are keeping it up, Cusp for 1, thanks man! You've been a great help as per usual! Thanks.

BTW, heres's a copy of the PM I sent Eonnn

Do what you wish with those documents, I care little. I have right from the start said that anyone can believe what they want to believe and I'll tell you what I told the LD that caught hold of me last night.
'If I am a fraud how is it I can talk to you within a dream.'

And by the way, counterpart has a name, if you had any respect then I suggest you find her name and call her by it.

As for the personal attack...I got one word for you...JERK! Have some respect and come to me in a pm before he blow your horn all over DV.

Show your documents.

Enjoy.

----------


## pepsibluefan

Maybe I should make a book about dreamwalkers and nightstalkers. Might make a great movie someday lol.

----------


## Lex16

Actually there is, or at least in the making...

----------


## italianmonkey

is it my impression or it's going all to free paranoid flaming and personal attacks?
it's sad, this was a nice thread!

plus, i see a guy attacking a girl, that's not fair. O.o

----------


## The Cusp

I restarted this thread at AstralDynamics, to see what that crowd had to say on the matter.  There's a been a lot of "entity" talk.

But that's a whole other barrel of monkeys.  If shared dreaming is possible, then obviously a lot of other things are possible as well.  There may very well be "entities" that can enter dreams.  The problem is there are so many different names for all these entities in all sorts of religions and beliefs, that things quickly get confusing.  Too much doubt as to what they really are.

That's why I like the idea of Dream Walkers.  You know what you're dealing with.  They are people.  Sick twisted ones for the most part, but people none the less.


Now someone there claimed to have dug up some info on the origins of this thread.  I think this pretty much sums it up.





> Originally Posted by Akorah
> 
> have done some digging up on where all this nightstalker and dreamwalker stuff came from... turns out it is a prank that 2 sisters from South Africa obsessed with World of Warcraft are playing on everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds bad cover up story, like the weather balloon for area 51.  Mentioning WOW is a nice touch.  Disillusioned game nerds is a sugary answer you don't have to think about too much and instantly satisfies.



You can see the full thread here:
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/vie...er=asc&start=0

----------


## italianmonkey

yep

this story is so simple and plain (- just people, as you say), that's very easy to find traces of it  that are much older than the creation of WoW (nice game, though).
put your nose in some books....

if it's an hoax, it's a cenutries old hoax (which is quite possible indeed)

----------


## labmonkeywork

Concerning this negative atmosphere in the posting, I don't like it. Let's be civil. Also, know that we have all different words for what we've experienced. Some of us have come by those words via research, some by intuition, some by logical reasoning, etc.

Also, let's not "out" people, especially before talking to them privately. The word is civility.





> I have never done this, I would be fearful of becoming possessed. Out of curiousity, what technique/method do you use to bring them into your mind and trap them? and to study them?



Method? Technique? I do everything I do by intuition. In the dream state, I perceive my own mind working (self aware) and then I see the other person's/entity's mind. I see it working as well, but it is not as clear as my own. So, I build up the will and "lock onto" their mind with every intent of bringing it wholly into my own. Using intuition, I map different parts of their mind onto different parts of my own so I can see/hear their thoughts, feel their emotions, and by the mapping itself, determine how they predominantly think: logical, rational, irrational, emotional, etc.

Whether it is me going to them or me brining them to me, I couldn't tell you. Also, I don't think it truly matters. It's a fusion of sorts, and one party has all the control in it.

Also, if you want to be nice, swaddle the person and their thoughts. Everyone has deep roots from when they were a baby and their perception of comfort.

However, if you forcefully arrange their mind to yours, you could incidentally benefit or damage them by forcing an imprint of you on them.

Good times. Tell me what you think.

PS - Be nice to Lex and Sanz, and if you can still be nice to them and inform us, please let us know what is going on  ::D: 





> How about that Nightmare Man in the show Heroes?  A perfect example of a Night Stalker.  Can't wait to see more of that and what they do with it.



I can't wait to see more!! Episode 5 left off that part of the show with Nightmare Man walking away with a devilish grin on his face. Now I can only do that to people while I and my target are asleep, but he does it while all parties are wide awake. That's amazing! I would so love to be able to do that... but to not do it for purposes similar to his.

----------


## Lex16

LOL!!!!
Hey Cusp and labmonkeywork, thanks for the defence there on your thread, appreciate it alot!

As for the one called Akorah, yeah I'm from SA and yeah Aero and Sanz are the same in one. Yeah I like anime, RPGs and stuff but you made a slight mistake in your calculations there...we're not sisters (Not of blood anyway)...and we live over 600 km away from each other. As for world of warcraft...I've never played it, as in ever.
As for the Prank...what prank? What did I do? I gave the truth and no more than that. If you can't believe then live with it. I don't care if you believe it or not.
I have never forced this upon anyone and yes I have talked of the NS and the DWs on CB, what's the issue with you? Back off!

----------


## Eonnn

Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining to us in more detail then where all this came from?

You said "They were talking about this over at club beach"

"They" meaning someone else.. I saw the thread you were talking about and no one mentioned anything about it besides you and aero, it wasn't hard to find out you both know each other on a personal level.. so I may have jumped to conclusions in assuming that its all a prank or some elaborate fairy tale fantasy, and I apologise if that was the case. Its just that you started the thread off with the idea then let it feed on people's imaginations.

Seeing as you are here now, could you please explain in more detail what this is all about.

----------


## Xaqaria

I've done some research, and the only mention of this beyond basement dwelling LARPer's and gamer's personal websites and blogs is in the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan, which leads me to believe that the LARPers and gamers all read the series and created a fantasyland in their head in which these sorts of things are real, and then spread the idea around the internet.

----------


## Eonnn

yeah thats what i found too Xaqaria.. the actual terms "Dreamwalker" and also "Nightstalker" and common terms in WoW.. also the word 'faction' and 'dark immortal' which Lex used. But I will wait to see what Lex's response is first before jumping to any more conclusions.

----------


## Amelaclya

When I read this thread, my first thought was of The Wheel of Time.  (Actually, when I heard about LDs in general).  I however don't believe that dreams are anything more than a creation of your own mind to play in while you sleep.  Actually I believe we learned in physiology that one theory is that it is filtering out all of the useless information you gained during the day. 

Anyway, I think people claiming to have met the nightstalkers etc either a) really believe it themselves, maybe they are just DCs in their own LDs. or b) don't really believe what they are saying is true.

Personally, I try to keep an open mind about things like this until I'm proven otherwise. Skeptical of course, but I will admit that we don't know everything and therefore anything *could* technically be possible. but the fact that these self-professed "dreamwalkers" declined the opportunity to prove themselves leads me to lean towards option b.  

If I even half thought I had the ability to enter people's dreams, for $1000 of course I would try it, no matter what time of day I had to fall asleep.

----------


## pepsibluefan

If they exist or not. Makes for a good book i'm making. ^_^

 Also I don't think its imposible, just quiet rare. Like a psychic ability all in alll?

----------


## Eonnn

i used to believe it was all in the mind too until i realised that if physical activities in your close vicinity can be incorporated into your dreams whilst you sleep (i.e. alarm clock may appear as a truck reversing then you wake up and realise it was the alarm), then why can't metaphysical activities too? many people have insights and great idea's that come from dreams.. some people say to have experienced precognitive dreams and many other strange paranormal occurances.. so why not? makes sense to me if you look at it in this way that when we sleep our subconscious incorporates not just stuff going on in the physical, but the spiritual too - depending how open you are to it.

and if you don't believe there is more to life than just physicality, and that we just die and become nothing.. then good luck with that  :smiley:

----------


## Jeff777

You all have _truly_ immortalized this thread, lolz.

----------


## ♥Mark

> and if you don't believe there is more to life than just physicality, and that we just die and become nothing.. then good luck with that



Thanks for the well wishes! And good luck figuring anything out! ^______^

----------


## seeker28

Yes.  Dangerous topic.

However, in a related vein, has anyone had experience with dream-teachers?

----------


## Gnarus

Last night I was having a regular dream.  I was in a town in China somewhere and my car seemed to have been stolen and I couldn't find my girlfriend.  I consider this a typical dream so far.  Then, some china guy comes to me and says "don't worry about your car or your GF, they're fine, you're just dreaming right now".  Whoa?  Next he adds that I must follow him cause I might be in danger.  Some things happened afterward, we were definetly being followed and soon after I woke up.

Makes me wonder if this guy might had been one those dreamwalkers?

----------


## Sorn

(No dream-teacher but...)

Some years ago, I stumbled in a room and became lucid.
About 10 persons stood in this room clothed with white cowls.
More like judo clothes with belt. They had leather bags
bound at their belts. This must have been a secret meeting.
Suddenly one of the man noticed me and catched me.
I couldn't move, then he took a blade and threaten me.
He said: 'What are you doing here'. He said I should never
come again to spy. Then he showed me a symbol of their
group and told me that I should never forget it if
I want to live safe. This experience was really horrible.

----------


## Gez

Hmmmm.
Ive come to the conclusion that this whole Dream walker / Night Stalker thing is bull, sorry to say it but i won't beleve until i see it.
face to face.

----------


## The Cusp

Well what do you know? There is a friggin' school for DreamWalkers...
http://www.dreamwalker.cc/

Doesn't seem to be much available on the site though. You have to have take the classes to access the forums.

----------


## pepsibluefan

Now I qustion if I can legely use the title "The Dreamwalker" for my book..

----------


## ClouD

> Well what do you know? There is a friggin' school for DreamWalkers...
> http://www.dreamwalker.cc/
> 
> Doesn't seem to be much available on the site though. You have to have take the classes to access the forums.



That site, is about trained people guiding other people through process' of pregnancy, death, etc.

I assume they help you in the lowest astral realms, and they claim to be able to make these transitions more comfortable for you, without any religious bias.

----------


## Lex16

> yeah thats what i found too Xaqaria.. the actual terms "Dreamwalker" and also "Nightstalker" and common terms in WoW.. also the word 'faction' and 'dark immortal' which Lex used. But I will wait to see what Lex's response is first before jumping to any more conclusions.



Tell me...where did I use the term 'dark immortal' in context with all of this? Hmm...? I don't think I have. Where'd you suck that out of.
As for 'faction' how about looking it up in a dictionary, it's an actual word.
And you can argue the 'WoW' angle all you like, I can't argue back BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME!!!! So drop it already.
Now you have my response, do with it as you please, as you insist on attacking me the whole time.

----------


## azureone

*sigh* this is awesome....I've been looking for something like this. If anyone can help me become lucid(DW's would be nice......), the gate is open.

----------


## Vortex

> Tell me...where did I use the term 'dark immortal' in context with all of this? Hmm...? I don't think I have. Where'd you suck that out of.
> As for 'faction' how about looking it up in a dictionary, it's an actual word.
> And you can argue the 'WoW' angle all you like, I can't argue back BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME!!!! So drop it already.
> Now you have my response, do with it as you please, as you insist on attacking me the whole time.



Err.... You use the term 'dark imortals' in your signiture:





> Pay the price
> 'We are not devision 6, we are the Dark Immortals, don't forget it!.

----------


## Lex16

> Err.... You use the term 'dark imortals' in your signiture:



So? So now my sig has something to do with Lucid dreaming? I don't recall say that it had anything to do with Lucid dreaming. Where do you guys get this stuff?

----------


## tsolless

Fascinating. I can't say if I know if this is real or not but it is fascinating. Some questions though...

These here that say they can trap you in your dreams... How do they know who oyu are. For example... How would someone see me on this forum, hunt me out, and trap me? How in the world would they summon me and not someone else in a completely random fashion?

----------


## Bad Wolf

> Fascinating. I can't say if I know if this is real or not but it is fascinating. Some questions though...
> 
> These here that say they can trap you in your dreams... How do they know who oyu are. For example... How would someone see me on this forum, hunt me out, and trap me? How in the world would they summon me and not someone else in a completely random fashion?



To my knowledge, they can't trap you in a dream. They may be able to prolong it via time dilation, but I don't think they can't trap you in it. As for how they can find you, it's actually pretty obvious (for some of us at least). If you know anything about psionics, you should know that everyone has a psionic energy signature, or a psi sig. Now, people are careless with their energy, mostly because they don't even know anything about it or even that they're being careless with it. For instance, whenever someone posts something on a forum, they accidentally put some of their energy, containing mostly emotions that they were feeling as they typed, into the post. This energy is usually more than enough to determine that person's signature. Dream walkers might not even need to pick out the signature, as they can probably just get a feel for the energy and use that to find you once they're in a dream.

Of course, having never dream walked everything I say is mostly speculative, but at the moment it's the most reasonable method I can think of. I think some people believe lucid dreamers put out some sort of frequency while lucid that people don't during a normal dream, but I'm unable to comment on that due to my lack of experience with dream walking.

----------


## tsolless

Yes that would make sense if that kind of thing existed. I'm not saying that it doesn't or it does. I really don't know.

----------


## Gez

Once again, i won't beleive it till i see it.

----------


## Grod

Once, there was this guy in a dream, and we fought. He was a Night Stalker, I'm sure.

----------


## The Cusp

> Once, there was this guy in a dream, and we fought. He was a Night Stalker, I'm sure.



What was it about that encounter that made you think it might be more than a dream?

----------


## Grod

> What was it about that encounter that made you think it might be more than a dream?



 :tongue2: I was joking...

 It just seems like everyone thinks that if they fought some "demon" in their dream it's automatically supernatural or mysterious.

----------


## The Cusp

yeah, thanks for your valuable contribution.

----------


## Gez

Im trying to prompt some sort of reaction from them.

----------


## italianmonkey

once upon a time, this was a nice thread...

----------


## Silviiro

> As for how they can find you, it's actually pretty obvious (for some of us at least). If you know anything about psionics, you should know that everyone has a psionic energy signature, or a psi sig. Now, people are careless with their energy, mostly because they don't even know anything about it or even that they're being careless with it. For instance, whenever someone posts something on a forum, they accidentally put some of their energy, containing mostly emotions that they were feeling as they typed, into the post. This energy is usually more than enough to determine that person's signature. Dream walkers might not even need to pick out the signature, as they can probably just get a feel for the energy and use that to find you once they're in a dream.



Then wouldn't recapitulation stop them from being able to find you?

----------


## StephenT

After reading the first two pages, I have been so inspired from all of this haha.

Being very new to universe of dreams, this sounds so amazingly crazy that so many people can relate to these things.

Anybody wanna come into my dream tonight and help me gain lucidity for the first time in a couple years?

That would be so awesome.

Maybe we could invite John Lennon too?  That's kinda one of my goals is to somehow get him into my dream to chat with him.  I guess I'd need a NDE for that though maybe?

----------


## Grod

> yeah, thanks for your valuable contribution.



Ok, sorry. I could have done wiithout that post.

----------


## forgotenmemory

I want to be in a faction.

----------


## Silviiro

The only thing that makes me suspect that they are real is that I have not yet encountered them in a dream. There is a noticeable absence within my dreams of anything even resembling a Night Stalker. I have not even had a nightmare since I began insulting them. The stupid ignorant little. . . Oh wait that doesn't work.

----------


## iLight

I really hate when peope use this sentence " I wont believe it until i see it?" 

LOL, comon people wake up, we are all living in a energy ocean. Everything is possible in this ocean. Wont believe until you see it? u mean see it with ur eyesight? 

Why not look at science and quantum physics, and on their explanation of reality? 
Science : Our world is Energy
Quantum physics : Our World is multi dimensional 

Huh, not gonna go directly to the facts.. Wake up those who use their eyesight in order to accept something. This world is not made from static shit!

What else can i say.. these beings in our dream are as real as we are. Can they influence us? will you let them? its up to you.

----------


## ♥Mark

> quantum physics



And that's where I stop reading.

----------


## Silviiro

Since my question has been overlooked, I repost it. Wouldn't recapitulation stop the Night Stalkers from being able to find you?

----------


## The Cusp

> Since my question has been overlooked, I repost it. Wouldn't recapitulation stop the Night Stalkers from being able to find you?



I don't see how.  Care to explain why you think that would work?  Other than freeing up energy, which you could use to try and thwart then if you so choose.  But on it's own, I doubt it.

----------


## Silviiro

> I don't see how.  Care to explain why you think that would work?  Other than freeing up energy, which you could use to try and thwart then if you so choose.  But on it's own, I doubt it.



You would take back your psionic energy signature. Unless they have some other way of tracking you, in which case regaining your energy is still a good idea.

----------


## The Cusp

There are just too many unknowns to say for sure.  Who knows how they track down and find people.

If I spent less time smashing things and chasing after women in my lucids, maybe I could figure it out.  I've really got to stop wasting time doing stuff like that.

----------


## Silviiro

> There are just too many unknowns to say for sure.  Who knows how they track down and find people.
> 
> If I spent less time smashing things and chasing after women in my lucids, maybe I could figure it out.  I've really got to stop wasting time doing stuff like that.



 I have even less info then you to go off of as they have never attacked me. I can only theorize based off of what others have posted and off of what I have read. And about the second part, I feel the same way.

----------


## LDhippie

i think they got me! i had this bad dream about some guy chasing me thru the streets (i dont no were) and then i triped and he stabed me and some wierd green stuff came out and i havnt dreamed since (and that was 2 months ago!)

----------


## TravelerBetweenWorlds

Ok, i actually took the time to read this whole thread, and i have to leave my opinion here, for whatever its worth...

This whole thing seems pretty romantic, with evil Stalkers (the evil old lady is one of my favorites) waging wars against LDers and DW's...there is "the council", the adventurous and teenage-like "Rogues", the "dark immortals", the "Watchers", the "Healers" and whatnot... Everything is grandious and epic, and there is mortal danger waiting around the corner... Lex and friends are ass-kicking "rogues" fighting epic battles against skeletons and whatnot in their dreams, and whatever... 

I used to daydream about being an ass-kicking rogue myself, in my early teenage years... its no problem, and i mean no offense really... its much better to be a rogue-fighter-who-delivers-asses-in-plates-and-fears-nobody than the regular teenager bored to death with this shithole we call society... my only problem is trying to convey imagination as reality, and gettin sooooo many people going for it... i mean, cmon! If i were to tell this story in a party people would be laughing their asses off at my expenses...

I'm sorry for my honesty, but this seems too much like a hollywood script, or some sci-fi series soon to premier on AXN... perhaps after "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer", and in between reruns of The Lord of The Rings...

Ive been LDing for 10+ years, and NEVER encountered a DC slighlty resembling a DW or NS. In fact, once im lucid, i just ignore anyone who's buging me and they disapear right away... god knows i've seen my share of weird stuff, but people, ITS A DREAM! thats why we call it lucid DREAMING! 

No one is going to kill you! No one is going to find out where you live! No one is going to "ban" you from dreaming! 

I know im getting flare for "being closed minded" or "that i shouldnt be posting here if i dont believe" but i dont care really... Last time i checked this was a freedom of speech internet, and i believe i have the right to be honest and thus give the newbies another outlook on this thing.

I dont mean to sound offensive (you have to forgive the hint of sarcasm here and there, cmon), and i wouldnt even post this, except i think it could scare a lot of newbies into not entering the fascinating world of LD. 

That being said, i wish you all the best, and may your dreams be filled with exciting battles and whatever makes you tick.

Oh, and i do belive dreamsharing IS possible (as dream yoga has tought before), just not in this epic-fantasy way, and surely not without many years/decades of monastic rigor and discipline in yogic practices.

best regards
TBW

----------


## Carôusoul

> i think they got me! i had this bad dream about some guy chasing me thru the streets (i dont no were) and then i triped and he stabed me and some wierd green stuff came out and i havnt dreamed since (and that was 2 months ago!)



Oh wow. 

I call that proof!





or not.

----------


## ClouD

This thread, is now 423 posts of infinite lawlage wisdom  :smiley: .

In fact, i think it's the thread with the highest replies in BD.

I'll have to check on that.

*Edit* Indeed it is.

----------


## Xinro

Who knows, it could be possible.  I believe I met someone recently in a dream - it just had that feeling of being more than a dream, that strange quality some of you probably know.  Very strange...  I'll give the short(er) version: I injured my back in awake time a few weeks ago, and it hasn't healed since, even with my trying to reiki it.  In my dream, I went to the house of this woman I had never met before.  She had this strange gold light around her, and she was older.  I went over and sat in front of her, and she put her hands on me and it felt like she was trying to heal me, and I could actually feel the energy flowing through, the same energy I get when I'm having reiki done by someone else.  After she took her hands away, I felt really sleepy and fell over on the floor.  I got that feeling I have before going out of my body and in my dream left my body and flew around, partially lucid, before landing and greying out.

It could be just me, but that was more than a dream.  I felt like I knew the woman, like she was someone familliar and kind.  Actually, she felt a little like my Reiki master, now that I think about it...  My back still isn't fully healed, but it's getting better now.

----------


## TravelerBetweenWorlds

Are you sure the old lady wasnt the witch who runs the Stalkers? everyone seems to be stumbling across them around every dream-corner these days...

on a side note: if the reiki has failed, perhaps its time to try something desperate like...going to a doctor... unless of course you havent tried the healing power of the cristals, or aromatherapy...

----------


## Xinro

Really, the sarcasm isn't appreciated.  Isn't this area supposed to be for believers?

And on a side note: Get to know your alternative medicines before trying a sarcastic comment about them.  I have seen a doctor.  *You fail.*

----------


## The Cusp

Woot!  I finally completed what I believe to be the first step in proving dream walking to myself.  I was trying to see energy in my dreams like Castaneda described in his books.  Of course there was nothing to see.  But if there should ever be another person in my dreams, then according to the books, they would have an energy body that I should be able to see.

To buddy with the long name:  Nobody cares about these supposed factions other than you people who come in here to say it sounds dumb.  Will you people let it go!

----------


## LDhippie

i can prove its real just read my post down the bottom of page 17!!! oh and P.S i have started dreaming again now but the first dream i had i saw that guy who was chasing me so i think i may have escaped their dream prision!!

----------


## TravelerBetweenWorlds

:smiley:  ok guys i apologize for the sarcasm, its a bad habit im trying to get rid of...

Xinro, i acttually respect Reiki, and i believe its effective in some cases, so dont be so offended, i just like to make sarcastic comments, sometimes uncalled for, for which i do apologize again... 

despite sounding like an ass, most of the times im not... 

i sincerely wish you guys great LD's, and thats that

cheers
TBW

----------


## Jamal

I believe this... And am very interested in experimenting... I'll try to dream walk next LD in fact. The only way you could ever know that you sucessfully dream walked would be if the other person confirms it... Or else it could just be an LD.

----------


## horsebucket

I ran into an 8 foot red headed madman with a sun hat numerous times in my dreams and unlike regular DC's I can't win fights against him. If I've ever encountered a dream walker this bastard is one of them. 

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=43917

I have to admit I was the one who started the first fight with him but hes been popping up out of nowhere and attacking me in dreams since then,

----------


## Fluffysilver

Yet to see a nightstalker. I used to dream about these birds all the time but they never talked, except once.

----------


## Jared Boz 87

Well, I'll say that all this makes for some of the most interesting, entertaining reading I've yet encountered. As for if I believe in it, I really don't know. On one hand, I see all these stories everyone wrote down, especially the one with the limping old man, but on the other you do have to admit to how outlandish it can seem to those unfamiliar with it. Or maybe I'm scared to believe. I'm a novice lucid dreamer, and I don't relish the thought of fighting with these guys. Sure, I'm nearly invincible and impervious to pain even in normal dreams, but it seems like some of the usual rules don't apply here. 

Also, I'd like to know more about the Watchers, that faction some have mentioned that's supposed to be really wierd.

----------


## Cut

I think the best way you could actually confirm a DW/NS or if you've successfully managed to become one would be to start giving any DC you meet your phone number and some word for them to say when they call you. Now THAT could make for some good stories.

----------


## Jared Boz 87

On second thought, this might be just the kind of motivation I need to get lucid more. So any Dreamwalkers, Nightstalkers, or Watchers out there I'm calling you out! If you exist show yourselves, you'll at least make my dreams more interesting than the usual boring crap, so bring it on!

----------


## Jared Boz 87

All the Dreamwalkers Nightstalkers and Watchers were all NO SHOWS!!! What's the matter? Surely you ain't scared of a rookie LDer like me are you? Come on!

----------


## Silviiro

> All the Dreamwalkers Nightstalkers and Watchers were all NO SHOWS!!! What's the matter? Surely you ain't scared of a rookie LDer like me are you? Come on!



I tried insulting them too. The spineless wretches had no backbones with which to stop me from insulting them.

----------


## italianmonkey

who owns the landscape gets enormous advantage

----------


## italianmonkey

i totally disagree with what i'v written before. that does not make any sense.

----------


## rondonu

> Don't go out of your way, AHiddenSaint, I can handle myself, plus I have been begging for it.
> 
> And I know how the secret to winning a dream fight.
> 
> Interesting how lex mentioned they were trying to recruit Sanz.  I've been interrogated 3 times in my dreams since I first posted in this thread.  The twisted violence in my dreams isn't so unusual (But never this consistent).  It's the interrogations that intrest me.  I may have self incubated those violent dreams, but in no way was I expecting to be interrogated.





Interogated? hmmmmmm.... I wonder if they want you for a specific reason.... anyway, I am stalked by NS almost every dream I can remember.... but man oh man is it fun!! lol

----------


## rondonu

It seems that my Night Stalkers come in the form of vampires (the same one in fact) or some other evil thing like that.  And do they just hate my DC? Or, do they fear her? Man.... if only I could kill those suckers once and for all... but then, what would we do for fun? I mean, nobody can just have happy skippy dreams forever... right?

----------


## The Cusp

> Interogated? hmmmmmm.... I wonder if they want you for a specific reason....



No, they never asked anything relevant.  I got the feeling it was just his particular method of captivating and manipulating my attention. 






> Man.... if only I could kill those suckers once and for all... but then, what would we do for fun? I mean, nobody can just have happy skippy dreams forever... right?



Try going through the soles of their feet.  In Carlos Castaneda's books, he says that's a weak spot on the energy body.  I haven't seen hide or hair of them since I remembered to try that out.  

I was really hoping they were training and getting ready for some revenge on me, but it appears they're just a bunch of cowardly pansies.   Or perhaps they're just laying low because we've drawn too much attention to them?

----------


## The Cusp

Double post...

----------


## ForgottenRemembrance

[/quote] Ok i just have a few questions:
1) how can you ban someone from dreaming? 
2) can Night Stalkers ban you from dreaming?
3) If you kill them or they kill you isn't that just your dream body dying so it wouldn't be that big of a deal? 
4) (kind of off the subject of the quote) Dream walkers are in factions and everything but they're not like Night Stalkers or "bad guys" so what do they do? 
sorry, i'm probably bothering you asking all these questions like a 5 year old. This is really interesting though, either it's a bunch of bull or it's one of the coolest things i've ever heard

[/quote]

Isnt it obvious? You just kill them in YOUR dreams. They cant come back. And if they kill you, your dead in YOUR dreams. i am really getting this fast.

----------


## LDallNight

Firstly I would like to start by saying I don't believe in any of this, but it is interesting to read and ponder about.  

Anyways, for all of you people challenging these "dream invaders", do you really expect them to be able to find you?  You didn't give your names, any pictures, or anything, and if these beings actually did exist, I would expect they would need that.

Also, the flaw I see with the stories are, how can they have infastructure and power struggles within lucid dreams if anyone can just be god and summon things/make them dissapear.  Also, do these people have real lives or do they just sleep all day?  Or do they just wander from dream to dream in some dreamscape or something?

Although I do like these stories and the idea of dream walkers is appealing, none of it adds up.  If anyone has anything to say on the contrary, please do.  I'd like to see if anyone has found a flaw in *my* reasoning.  

-Justin

----------


## ForgottenRemembrance

> how would dreamwalking work? is there an explanation? (i dont doubt anything, i just like to understand things) how would you do it?
> god, pissin off my freind  in his sleep TOO  would be great!
> (no escape!)



get lucid and go through a portal into his dreams/subconciousness

it takes practice though

----------


## acillis

do you guys mean shadow beings???? they are nasty *****

----------


## Silviiro

After thinking about dreams I have had in the past year, I realized some interesting things. I may have been attacked by a Night Stalker before I even read this topic. I also think that the Night Stalker continued attacking until I "absorbed" him. I'm not sure about it though. The entity that I absorbed did not seem human. It did seem pure evil.

----------


## Scarred_for_life

I think I may have encountered a night stalker in a dream before. A group of people just just randomly drove up to my house in a dream and as soon as they got out of the car I just became lucid. We were fighting and while being flung back in midair, I woke up and felt like I had just skidded down into my bed.

----------


## Mato2

> i can prove its real just read my post down the bottom of page 17!!! oh and P.S i have started dreaming again now but the first dream i had i saw that guy who was chasing me so i think i may have escaped their dream prision!!



I just read your post and....

*drum roll*

Your proof sucks. Thats the worst logical explanation of something i have ever seen.  ::|:

----------


## nullbyte00

If any night stalkers or dream walkers are reading this, feel free to enter my dreams tonight or any other night and confront me  :smiley:

----------


## Sandform

> If any night stalkers or dream walkers are reading this, feel free to enter my dreams tonight or any other night and confront me



Sooooo many people say that it is starting to be too funny.

----------


## nullbyte00

> Sooooo many people say that it is starting to be too funny.



Well, even though most likely there are no night stalkers on the forums, if there are any by chance, then woot  :smiley:

----------


## The Cusp

The thread that wouldn't die!





> Sooooo many people say that it is starting to be too funny.



I've started a trend!

----------


## Verto

> Ok, i actually took the time to read this whole thread, and i have to leave my opinion here, for whatever its worth...
> 
> This whole thing seems pretty romantic, with evil Stalkers (the evil old lady is one of my favorites) waging wars against LDers and DW's...there is "the council", the adventurous and teenage-like "Rogues", the "dark immortals", the "Watchers", the "Healers" and whatnot... Everything is grandious and epic, and there is mortal danger waiting around the corner... Lex and friends are ass-kicking "rogues" fighting epic battles against skeletons and whatnot in their dreams, and whatever... 
> 
> I used to daydream about being an ass-kicking rogue myself, in my early teenage years... its no problem, and i mean no offense really... its much better to be a rogue-fighter-who-delivers-asses-in-plates-and-fears-nobody than the regular teenager bored to death with this shithole we call society... my only problem is trying to convey imagination as reality, and gettin sooooo many people going for it... i mean, cmon! If i were to tell this story in a party people would be laughing their asses off at my expenses...
> 
> I'm sorry for my honesty, but this seems too much like a hollywood script, or some sci-fi series soon to premier on AXN... perhaps after "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer", and in between reruns of The Lord of The Rings...
> 
> Ive been LDing for 10+ years, and NEVER encountered a DC slighlty resembling a DW or NS. In fact, once im lucid, i just ignore anyone who's buging me and they disapear right away... god knows i've seen my share of weird stuff, but people, ITS A DREAM! thats why we call it lucid DREAMING! 
> ...





Thank you for typing this up for me lol. 

Let me make this clear i am completly new to this forum and this thread I am ashamed to admit is the reason why i decided to register at this time. I gues my faith in this community is allready dwindeling that so many people could be reeled in by this. Please a magical place where there are two factions evil and good and you can fight forever i think everyone fantasises about being apart of middle earth or indeed apart of anything of this nature where the sounds of your great rougish talent can be heard across the ages of the Dream Walkers? This is childish and a make believe world that a few people of created and have planted what i can only say as a seed in your minds. Think about it you have been lucid dreaming for some time and you read this thread then you have an 'encounter' with a night stalker. Your not lucid in this because from what i can understand of lucid dreaming you are aware that your dreaming and it is not real whilst anyone who believes in this idealistic view of a dreamworld i would say are some of the worst lucid dreamers becasue they are clearly dreaming this up and fooling themselves in the process.

However as the intelligent author of the post i have quoted above says, i am still definetly open to dream sharing but not in this way people, this is the sort of thing you think of when your five and wish and wish until you cant wish anymore. But then you grow up.

Verto,

p.s. hey everyone

----------


## nullbyte00

> Thank you for typing this up for me lol. 
> 
> Let me make this clear i am completly new to this forum and this thread I am ashamed to admit is the reason why i decided to register at this time. I gues my faith in this community is allready dwindeling that so many people could be reeled in by this. Please a magical place where there are two factions evil and good and you can fight forever i think everyone fantasises about being apart of middle earth or indeed apart of anything of this nature where the sounds of your great rougish talent can be heard across the ages of the Dream Walkers? This is childish and a make believe world that a few people of created and have planted what i can only say as a seed in your minds. Think about it you have been lucid dreaming for some time and you read this thread then you have an 'encounter' with a night stalker. Your not lucid in this because from what i can understand of lucid dreaming you are aware that your dreaming and it is not real whilst anyone who believes in this idealistic view of a dreamworld i would say are some of the worst lucid dreamers becasue they are clearly dreaming this up and fooling themselves in the process.
> 
> However as the intelligent author of the post i have quoted above says, i am still definetly open to dream sharing but not in this way people, this is the sort of thing you think of when your five and wish and wish until you cant wish anymore. But then you grow up.
> 
> Verto,
> 
> p.s. hey everyone



What makes this any different from believing in a religion? It's ok to think angels and demons exist, but OH NO! Believing in dream walkers is childish. Yea...

----------


## JEG63

Dreamwalkers are persons with innate telepathic abilities, commonly known as 'Phoenix psions,' 'Energizers,' or 'Generators;' experts at generating/manipulating/storing psionic energy.
They can read your mind when you are wide awake, and put thoughts in your head too.
Additionally, they can read your mind when you are asleep, and if they read your mind when you are dreaming, they can put thoughts in your head at that time too, and influence, or "direct," your dream.
So if you were sleeping and peacefully dreaming about some light-assembly task you had performed a thousand times that day at work, and they read your mind and saw this, they could tamper with your dream, direct it, and change it to something else; pleasant or nightmare.
The dreamwalker is awake when s/he is doing this; probably with eyes shut and concentrating on the psychic task.
The experienced dreamwalker knows to dreamwalk somebody in the minutes before they awaken.
Example: a person that starts dreaming 10 minutes after falling asleep, gets dreamwalked for 20 minutes, then sleeps for 5 more hours; wakes up and does not remember the dreamwalk/directed dream. 
On the other hand: a person who has been asleep for 6 hours and is dreaming for 15 minutes before awakening that morning, and is dream-walked in this period, will most likely have vivid recollections of the directed dream session.
And if the telepath puts thoughts of the dream into the subjects mind just as s/he is awakening (reminds the person of the dream), then this assures that the dreamwalk is remembered.
You really want to get Dreamwalked? Then go in and fill out your public profile with as much real information as you dare. Fill in as many of the chat/instant message identities for the instant messaging networks as you can.
Be available for IM when somebody summons you; you don't have to say a lot in an IM session, just let the contact take place; exchange a few light-hearted insults, then log-off. In doing so, you may let some of these mind-readers here get a-hold of your psychic-signature (which is needed to read/scan your mind).
Now lay in bed, and maybe, one night soon, if you're lucky, you may fall victim to a psychic attack, and then you may need to sleep with a bright nite-lite for the next 9 months (or take a crash-course in advanced shielding techniques).

The problem is: the more experienced telepaths/empaths are the older and more mature people (I'm talking past 50 years of age here), and they, ironically, would be the ones least likely to attack/toy-with you.

----------


## Bad Wolf

To my knowledge, generators aren't much more likely to be inate telepaths than any other birth-switch (save the ones that obviously aren't going to be telepaths, like nons). And really, I doubt you'd need that much skill in telepathy to dreamwalk anyway.

----------


## lotto

> What makes this any different from believing in a religion? It's ok to think angels and demons exist, but OH NO! Believing in dream walkers is childish. Yea...



I would personally say it's not okay to think angels and demons exist either, but that's just me  :smiley: 

I actually find all this facinating. It's cool to see that people who beleive in this so bad actually experience it, since we perceive what we actually want to perceive.

----------


## Idolfan

I have met Night Stalkers in an OBE once as confirmed by some dudes on Astral Society... that's why I now beleive OBEs are dreams. But if you beleive they aren't just dreams then yes I have. They were in the form of two man sized "Agumon" stuffed toys that literally ripped me out of my body and started attacking me (but onviously it didn't hurt). I'm not taking the piss or anything that actually happened!

----------


## Sanzora

> The thread that wouldn't die!



Apparently eh :p
LOL

----------


## Hazel

Sorry if I'm digging this post out of it's grave or whatever, but I have some questions. I think this concept is extremely interesting, but I don't get how they could get into your dreams just by seeing your username on a forum. There's no way they could possibly know who you really are... But still, I think it would be sort of fun to encounter them (if it's really possible, that is).

----------


## Silviiro

> Sorry if I'm digging this post out of it's grave or whatever, but I have some questions. I think this concept is extremely interesting, but I don't get how they could get into your dreams just by seeing your username on a forum. There's no way they could possibly know who you really are... But still, I think it would be sort of fun to encounter them (if it's really possible, that is).



Energy signatures. Every time you post, the emotions you are feeling are imprinted onto that post. This is all theoretical of course. I have yet to be attacked by a Night Stalker, so if they do exist I guess that they are pretty intelligent.

----------


## JEG63

> I think this concept is extremely interesting, but I don't get how they could get into your dreams just by seeing your username on a forum. There's no way they could possibly know who you really are... But still, I think it would be sort of fun to encounter them (if it's really possible, that is).



If you really want to start having Dreamwalk sessions with a dreamwalker, then you need to find an innate born-on telepath that is also skilled in the ability of dreamwalking and make friends.
Your new Dreamwalker friend needs to get your signature; get to know your face, facial expressions, personality, sound of your voice, general idea of the different moods you cycle through, and other discerning traits that are unique to your character. 
This would ideally occur in a series of face-to-face meet-ups.
The idea that "your signature to read your mind can be picked up by your forum-username" is, essentially, false.
Bare in mind that one can read all the posts by somebody, trace the image URL of thier avatar to a photobucket with tons of face photos, find the myspace page with all sorts of personal stats --- ther'es all sorts of ways to amass enough information to begin to get a fix on somebodies siggy.
I believe that the bare minimum is: they would need a photo and/or phone-call with you and/or chat sessions that exchanged volumes of personal information about you, (not to mention, again, stumbling upon your myspace page with your 3000 word bio about you.)
You would actually need to get comfortable with your new Dreamwalker friend and give him/her permission to scan and dreamwalk you; that is: allow him/her to read your mind and ping you.
Pinging is when a telepath sends you a signal to contact you; it would, perhaps, be like a strange thought in your head that you knew wasn't yours. 
S/he might always ping you with the vivid thought of a howling wolf, or whatever; then you would recognize this thought as one that was coming from outside your mind.
After you got comfortable with being pinged, and started learning to recognize it, then you could start to practice output telepathy.
You would think thoughts back at him/her and s/he would receive your thoughts (read your mind) and then ping you back with a more complex thought, idea, or words.
If you are currently non-active in any/all of the fields of psionics then it could, perhaps, take years, or decades, of daily input/output telepathic pinging with this new innate-born friend before you really became good at it (telepathy).
And even then you would, perhaps, probably be able to really cogently communicate ONLY with other innate born-on telepaths (and only ones that had acquired your signature); it's not like you could turn this skill on everybody and just start reading their minds.
Expert mind-readers are rare in society, and tend to be very discreet about their abilities - especially the more talented ones.

Just allowing yourself to be dreamwalked is easier than doing input/output telepathy together; after you met up, you could be dreamwalked any time you slept good and sound - provided that your dreamwalker friend knew when to scan you to check and catch you dreaming in the right state (REM sleep).

----------


## Hazel

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info, though I was more interested in night stalkers... Why would they want to do something like that? Just for fun?

----------


## Barns

If I believed they were real then I would say I had a lucid fight with a nightstalker.


But I think it was just a lucid dream.

----------


## Dream Binder

Can  you  reveal  some  of  your  experiences  with  them  ,  if  you  don't  mind  ?  I  think   me  and  others  ,  we'll  be  very  interested  in  them . ::huh::

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## JEG63

> Can  you  reveal  some  of  your  experiences  with  them  ,  if  you  don't  mind  ?  I  think   me  and  others  ,  we'll  be  very  interested  in  them .



Dreamwalkers have met-up more since frequenting online message forums pertaining to psionics, lucid dreaming and astral visions. (and I believe that everybody has met more people in this field since the advent of the internet.)

The mature elder dreamwalkers probably tend to keep an eye out in the astral planes; they probably do this by increasing the size of their telepathic net of friends by meeting more and more online.

When somebody squawks on a message board that they've been under recent attack from a nightstalker, then one or more of these dreamwalkers might investigate. Perhaps they would acquire a signature or two and spy on somebody telepathically, in an attempt to identify the nightstalker culprit.

Upon finding a nightstalker, the dreamwalker(s) might probably go into a sort of mother-hen mode on the perpetrator. Perhaps some type of psychic or psionic combat or sparring might take place (see how You like getting bad dreams put in Your head). I believe the nightstalker might be disciplined and set on a path that included a lot less nightstalking of innocent victims.

The problem is: so many youngsters might just be "crying wolf" when they report fantastic stories of nightstalker attacks.

And remember, Most of the dreams/nightmares people commonly have are just ordinary dreams with ordinary dream-characters created by your own sub-conscious mind. If you had a bad dream, it's probably just that; but if you keep having the same kind of terrible nightmares with the same kind of nasty dream character(s), then it might possibly be a nightstalker. 
Post it in your dream journal, because I bet some dreamwalkers might read now and then.

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## Hazel

> Upon finding a nightstalker, the dreamwalker(s) might probably go into a sort of mother-hen mode on the perpetrator. Perhaps some type of psychic or psionic combat or sparring might take place (see how You like getting bad dreams put in Your head). I believe the nightstalker might be disciplined and set on a path that included a lot less nightstalking of innocent victims.



That's pretty neat. So they're like the protectors of the Dream World? (I use that in lack of a better word, sorry.)

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## Sanzora

> That's pretty neat. So they're like the protectors of the Dream World? (I use that in lack of a better word, sorry.)



Something like that...

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## Tavasion

ok. any night stalkers want a piece, come into my dream tonight, and get your ass brutally handed to you. like, here is your ass, in my hand, handing it back to you. seriously. do it. bring it. ill be waiting. ive never encountered one, and i would like to test my abilities. i guess im a dream walker. so, bring it. BRING IT!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Barns

> ok. any night stalkers want a piece, come into my dream tonight, and get your ass brutally handed to you. like, here is your ass, in my hand, handing it back to you. seriously. do it. bring it. ill be waiting. ive never encountered one, and i would like to test my abilities. i guess im a dream walker. so, bring it. BRING IT!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!



If you think you are a dream walker then you should be hunting them not waiting for them.

And besdies, you don't ever want to be calling night stalkers to you.

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## JEG63

> ive never encountered one, and i would like to test my abilities. i guess im a dream walker. so, bring it.




Actually, a lot of Lucid Dreamers are probably very good at psionic dream combat and they don't even realize it. People here who can WILD and DILD effortlessly or with just a moderate bit of effort are probably going to be really good at thwarting and turning-the-tide on a nightstalker, and the night stalker knows it.

And no, you're probably not a dreamwalker; dreamwalkers/nightstalkers read peoples minds when they are sleeping, and effect their subjects dreams.

This needs to be said, because I have left it out because it was too personal to me. Many dreamwalkers can and do heal. 
Do they heal the infected cut on your finger while you're sleeping? No.

Here's an example; something that happened to me. I'm a 44 year old male, and the typical older male doesn't cry that much. 
I remember crying only 3 or 4 times in the last decade (I mean really sobbing good). I cried a bit when Princess Diana died; I cried a bit about a youngster that was completely paralyzed (vegetable) after getting hit by a car and I knew his family; and just a couple of other times probably.
A year or so ago I was going around carrying a bunch of hurt and anger and probably didn't realize it; pent up feelings of grief and anger that I didn't know could be solved by a good cry.
One night I had this weird dream; I was deeply sobbing in the dream. When I woke up I had intense recall. 
So I was feeling my pillow for damp teardrop-spots and there were none. I felt my eyes and they were dry.
But my face felt like I'd just finished a good cry, it felt less tense and my cheeks really felt good and I felt way better emotionally.
It was later "verified" (for you psionics buffs) that this had been a dreamwalker healing session. 
I had been flooded with pure empathic energy by a dreamwalker. There was no recall of any specific memory that I had been forced to dream about.


And another thing... calling-out nightstalkers here? If you absolutely feel the need to do this (and I do not recommend it) try an Astral or Psionics forum for better results.

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## Vegan

I want to take all sides of this story with an open mind, I don't really know what I believe in when it comes to Dreamwalkers and Nightstalkers, can someone explain how they can actually enter into dreams, how is that possible? Do they just enter any random persons dreams?

----------


## Ja_

i wish i can go in jessica alba dream and rape her..

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## tfpo

> i wish i can go in jessica alba dream and rape her..



Wow. Hopefully that reply was vulgar, retarded, and creepy enough to end this thread. Also, if anyone has some spare time, it wouldn't hurt to ban this dude.

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## Verto

LOL he can do what he wants in his dreams mate, I dont see any reason why he should be banned for that. 

Now if he was talking about reality then that would be a different matter...

Obviously that is going on my belief that none of this is real and it's just what we are experiancing in our own mind. Im not a big fan of the Dream Walking over 1000 miles business, ridiculous.

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## moe007

> Wow. Hopefully that reply was vulgar, retarded, and creepy enough to end this thread. Also, if anyone has some spare time, it wouldn't hurt to ban this dude.



Haha go easy on him.
I dont blame him hahaha.


But yeah, as long as its in your dreams, not in real life, your fine  ::D:

----------


## Sandform

> i wish i can go in jessica alba dream and rape her..







> Haha go easy on him.
> I dont blame him hahaha.
> 
> 
> But yeah, as long as its in your dreams, not in real life, your fine



Lol but he wants to go into HER dreams lol.  So techincally he does want to rape her, he just doesn't want there to be any physical evidence.  But this has got to be the funniest thing i've ever freaking heard.

----------


## Sandform

> I want to take all sides of this story with an open mind, I don't really know what I believe in when it comes to Dreamwalkers and Nightstalkers, can someone explain how they can actually enter into dreams, how is that possible? Do they just enter any random persons dreams?



Lol its not possible...its just fantasy.

Honestly, think about it...if  ANY of the stuff you hear about subjects like this were real...there would be hardcore evidence, and it would be BIG FUCKING NEWS, it would be on every news story for the rest of existence, but the fact is...it isn't real.  There is no evidence for any of it...and if there were, well this is the 21st century...it would be all over the news, on every continent...there would probably even be classes specifically for it incorporated into upper _and_ low school systems...

----------


## Interested1

Eonnn, I know what your talking about.  But I do believe they are demons.  I believe that what the rest of you call NS are demons...I have never engaged in hand to hand combat with them, instead I rebuke them.  I rebuke them by the blood of the Lamb, I quote scripture at them, tell them I am a child of God and they have no power over my life...things like that.  They always begin to look like they are shrinking...and I end up with a sort of illuminated sphere around me...and just before they leave, I am jolted awake and can see them in my room.  They are always either to my left by about 4 feet, or right over the top of me.  All I can see is the shaddowy figure and them leaving...but they are there.  I really believe it's a demonic attack and the only way to truly defeat them is with the power of God.

If there are actual people who go around tormenting people in their dreams, I hope I never meet them...I have enough issues with the supernatural without adding to them.

----------


## Verto

> Lol its not possible...its just fantasy.
> 
> Honestly, think about it...if  ANY of the stuff you hear about subjects like this were real...there would be hardcore evidence, and it would be BIG FUCKING NEWS, it would be on every news story for the rest of existence, but the fact is...it isn't real.  There is no evidence for any of it...and if there were, well this is the 21st century...it would be all over the news, on every continent...there would probably even be classes specifically for it incorporated into upper _and_ low school systems...



Thank you, I cant believe that a few people have managed to make so many believe in a completly ineffectual theory.

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## LucidTrauma

> I am a Night Stalker.



If I were to meet any Dream Walkers or Night Stalkers, I'd like to parley with them, maybe kick it with them. Like, what exactly do they want or do?

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## Silviiro

> Lol its not possible...its just fantasy.
> 
> Honestly, think about it...if  ANY of the stuff you hear about subjects like this were real...there would be hardcore evidence, and it would be BIG FUCKING NEWS, it would be on every news story for the rest of existence, but the fact is...it isn't real.  There is no evidence for any of it...and if there were, well this is the 21st century...it would be all over the news, on every continent...there would probably even be classes specifically for it incorporated into upper _and_ low school systems...



The Republic of Lakotah is big news for the US yet I have seen no media coverage of the situation.

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## bradysimpson

if  anyone entered my dreams because i can controll my own dreams i would make it hell for them!!!! tip: even if they went in my dreams me and my dc's would smash them to pieces!! ::D:  

 go my dream characters! go now and gnash theyre dreams on the sharp knife of despair!!!!

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## RDW1455

Hey group,
I'm new here and was reading some of your posts. I have had OOB experiences and they are what some of you call lucid dreams, or dream walking. I'm glad some (the guy who wants to rape people) of you cannot grasp the full measure of this ability. While I have  by no means perfected this gift I would never use it for harm or evil towards anyone else.
There is much I would show some and some I would tell nothing. maybe when I feel more comfortable with the site and some of you we can share what we have all learned.
Those who wish to do evil with this gift are being directed by evil. Some know this and some don't. But by the time they figure it out it will usually be too late. A word of caution to all....Evil in and Evil out. Those who mean no harm are usually safe. Sadly those who are using for harm will be dealt with eventually in very, very bad way.
Thanks everyone and I hope we can all be of help to each other.

----------


## adam has a dream

Have you ever slept with someone else in the room, or in the bed? I'm wondering if your scratch marks may be caused by your body not actually being paralysed by sleep.





> The worse thing they can do to you is possess you (these may not have been humans). That's really freaky. I learned to wake myself, and when I was little there were times I would eject myself from the dream state only to find that I was very much melded still with what was attacking me. I had to spend 5-10 minutes calling myself back to control and expunging that which was attacking me so I could have normal control over my limbs, thoughts, and speech.
> 
> Incredible times those were... I'm glad they are mostly over.



This sounds somewhat like a night terror; only you were lucid during the dream, which is not at all normal for a night terror... your posts make for interesting reading.

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## adam has a dream

> i used to believe it was all in the mind too until i realised that if physical activities in your close vicinity can be incorporated into your dreams whilst you sleep (i.e. alarm clock may appear as a truck reversing then you wake up and realise it was the alarm), then why can't metaphysical activities too? many people have insights and great idea's that come from dreams.. some people say to have experienced precognitive dreams and many other strange paranormal occurances.. so why not? makes sense to me if you look at it in this way that when we sleep our subconscious incorporates not just stuff going on in the physical, but the spiritual too - depending how open you are to it.



The thing about that is, the physical things you mentioned that are incorporated into our dreams are the ones detected by our *physical* senses while we sleep. While i'm not telling you not to believe in the metaphysical side of dreaming, i'm simply pointing out that incorporation of physically sensed physical obects still fits into a purely physical model of dreaming!

(let me say physical one more time  :tongue2: )

----------


## Raccoon

Honestly, Im not sure how I got to this site or where I found it at.
Not sure how I stumbled into this topic either, but here I am.

Ill make it short and put it like this- I have studied things in the past, and dealt with things during my awake time that make all of this easily believable.

Whether by blind luck or chance or something more, I am here tonight. I am interested and willing to learn, if someone is willing to teach.

I will respond to the name of Raccoon. I have noticed a few of the screennames, and will try to 'find' someone. I doubt I will, but I see it as an effort towards something that will help me improve myself.

I would prefer talking to people through a messenger first rather than 'finding' them in the landscape of dreams, so I apologise in advance if you take/took offense to it. Thats assuming I find someone, but hey; optimism.

PS- I am not issuing a challenge per se, but I am open to those that would visit. Make my dreams interesting and we will see how I fare.

----------


## rebelscholar

ONE IDEA:

dreaming is interactive accross multiple parellel universes in which there are SO many people, its possible to have circumstanses where a few people do have ability to get into others dreams without permission.

----------


## TimeStopper

That's quite far-fetched.

----------


## DreamingGhost

Wow I did not know this question was here before or I would have posted sooner.

I am quite proud (sometimes) to say that I am a dream walker, and from what I understand there is a group of people who have this ability that do help people with their nightmares and such and have formed a little group or what I like to call the _Dream Walkers Council_. 

I am one of those people who help others (mostly children) with their nightmares. But I do not talk to the other dream walkers because I do not play by their rules so I am kind of a loner. I also find that I can not control this ability as much as I would like to, and mostly get pulled into childrens nightmares, by them to help them. I think this is mainly why I got into LDing was so I could learn how to control the ability and use it at will insteed of getting pulled into others dreams by them.

I do not think I have ever ran into a nights stalker though. I will have to keep my eyes open for them. As it sounds like they try to make people have nightmares and try to control weather they are lucid or not. Not a fun bunch it sounds like, but I am ready for a challenge lol.

Take Care,
Anna ::jester::

----------


## TimeStopper

I think the only way to be sure is to run a scientific test, did LaBerge prove the existence of shared dreaming?

----------


## Nick6239

Im not sure but it would be cool if he did. I would love for shared dreaming to be real. It would be so cool, I wouldnt be able to do it just yet because i just started but once i master lucidity, if i do, i will def try it

----------


## Dayu Dragoon

Psychic DreamWalking by Michelle Belanger teaches this skill as does the website psipog.net.

----------


## Sarin

Geez i think the thread started at the beginning of time and still going.

If anybody here that has done any research on Shaman's and there Culture, which i am sure there are probably a few. That the shaman's used to Dream Walk to the under world and the upper world to heal there tribe and find lost things any meanings to what the plants were used for.

Some Shamans did use Dream Walking for evil, and thats a fact. They had this gift thousands of years ago and still have it today.

But they didn't have factions and big groups of these people that done it, its not a medieval fantasy game that you people think your playing with, go in to far and you seriously wont get back.

For most people that have posted in this thread, i think they are making a mockery out of everything dreaming stands for, but for the others that are trying to make sense out of these things, tell them the truth not some made up fantasy, keep it for your lucid dreams.

Thankyou

----------


## rebelscholar

agree.

----------


## dorpis

This sounds cool, except that your dream self can be harmed.

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## Xaqaria

Why is this thread still active? I vote it be moved to artist's corner or arcane arena as it is one of the longest threads based on a complete fantasy on the forum.

----------


## tkdyo

as long as some people believe in it, it belongs here...

I cant even lucid yet but if I could, I think it would be fun to try, not like its hurting anyone

----------


## panta-rei

I think it would be interesting to meet a nightstalker or a Dreamwalker. (Drops cue for Nightstalker to attack me.)

----------


## dorpis

Yeah, me too.

----------


## Kangster

To the lurking Night stalker's reading this forum/topic:

	Come and get it...

----------


## kingofclutch

Pfft. That is complete bull. I am sorry to anyone who believes in this, but anyone that is even slightly intelligent should know this to be impossible.

----------


## Maeni

^
I don't think you can say that. But I don't believe in this either.


Like many other things, I think this is a thing that only works if you really believe it.
You can't be chased by someone who walks up to you and says, "Hi, I'm a Night Stalker." if you don't believe in Night Stalkers. 

Though, imagine if it was true... Meetings at night? No more condoms? Night time party without bothering anyone in the neighborhood? 

I don't believe anyone can get in, no, maybe with huge devices attached to both inviduals heads...

----------


## Raccoon

To whoever stopped in on my dream earlier today-
I hope you were just toying with me. I really do.
You did get a few good hits on me, and my ear woke up burning so Im guessing thats where the fire got me.

But I remember I got you right back with a fireball of my own, and that was dead center. Hope your face isnt too red, didnt hurt too much when you woke up. Lol.

Oh, and you wont get me on the ground unless you find a way to keep me there. 

Again, I hope you were just toying with me, because if both of you were giving it everything you had, Im not impressed.

----------


## panta-rei

> To whoever stopped in on my dream earlier today-
> I hope you were just toying with me. I really do.
> You did get a few good hits on me, and my ear woke up burning so Im guessing thats where the fire got me.
> 
> But I remember I got you right back with a fireball of my own, and that was dead center. Hope your face isnt too red, didnt hurt too much when you woke up. Lol.
> 
> Oh, and you wont get me on the ground unless you find a way to keep me there. 
> 
> Again, I hope you were just toying with me, because if both of you were giving it everything you had, Im not impressed.



Okay, I'm not gonna lie... That was kinda weird... Anyways, Any of you dreamwalkers/nightstalkers wanna hang out, my mind is open to you!

----------


## Raccoon

> Okay, I'm not gonna lie... That was kinda weird... Anyways, Any of you dreamwalkers/nightstalkers wanna hang out, my mind is open to you!



http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...21&postcount=5

Sorry, Im sure that was a bit strange to read out of nowhere.
I assume they saw my posts before and decided to 'visit' me.

----------


## Sandform

Been a while since i've checked this thread out.  I don't think there's much truth to dream walkers and dream stalkers...I mean, you all realize that when your dreaming your merely on a really bad drug trip right?  You would have to be psychic in real life for it to have a very large amount of validity to it.

----------


## Kangster

...if that was someone in my dream the otherday...sad, it really was...tryin' to make me pull a gun on someone...rofl... u may have put the gun in my hand but I emptied the barrel  ::roll::  Without a single pull of the trigger...

In fact I laughed when I woke up!


Kinda dissappointed...

----------


## Domineek

> I can only say this...IDIOT!!!BAKA!!!!MORON!!!!
> For now I think this is enough on that.
> 
> Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself.
> 
> You have no idea how many people that are either Night Stalkers or Dream Walkers are actually on this thread at this moment. God and I thought I had bravado when I walked into their camp, LOL!!!
> You got guts, I like that and I hope you kick some serious ass but I warn you, the N.S are masters of causing pain you can't even begin to comprehend...but hell...there are so few dreamers that have the guts to stand up to them I will take my hat off to you.
> Welcome to my war.
> 
> ...





When you're talking about a powerful Old lady, that reminds me of dreams I had for several years when I was younger, honestly she tortured me. It was horrible and seemingly endless for atleast 2 years. 
Could she maybe be the one that is a night stalker

----------


## Through the Looking Glass

Yeah, I definitely don't believe in that. SDs are possible but not just some Freddy Kreuger like person attacking and terrorizing you in your dreams. Bring it on walkers and/or stalkers!! Make me believe.

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## ♥Mark

> ...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming...



LOL...

*closes tab

----------


## G0MPgomp

Reality jumpers.. :p

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## themuffinman

ok for all you non  believers, im not trying to convince you to belive any more than i am asking believers to stop, im making a simple statement.

prove its not possible.

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## kingofclutch

Please, since some of you believe this is real, can you tell me how they get into other people's dreams?

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## Sandform

> ok for all you non  believers, im not trying to convince you to belive any more than i am asking believers to stop, im making a simple statement.
> 
> prove its not possible.



That isn't sufficient for any arguement lol.
You can't prove or disprove something that isn't tangible/obtainable to study.

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## Kangster

hmmm, Night Stalker too scared?
Come on in, I invite all humbly to stop on in my dreams, but if it's a fight your looking for, I'll play just as hard and fast as anyone else.



Sorry but I'm kinda enticing the Night Stalker's  ::D:  ::D:  ::D: 
I want a fight.

But, seriously, everyone's welcome! It's a party in there!  ::banana::  And you're all invited lol

----------


## themuffinman

> That isn't sufficient for any arguement lol.
> You can't prove or disprove something that isn't tangible/obtainable to study.



well if there is no good argument against it, then why cant it be true?
just because there is no conclusive proof of aliens, it does not mean they cannot exist somewhere, maybe beyond our reach (im not saying i believe in either im just making a point)  it is very well that aliens probably do not exist but there is always that chance






> Please, since some of you believe this is real, can you tell me how they get into other people's dreams?



because i was thinking about it, i came up with a half ass theory kindof thing.  ill polish it a bit and post it if it doesnt make me seem like a complete psychopath

----------


## The Cusp

Find yourself the book* Mutual Dreaming* by Linda Lane   Magallón (New York: Pocketbooks, 1997). Linda spent 15 years researching the field and facilitating intentional co-dreaming projects. The book covers spontaneous and intentional mutual dreaming, and includes lucid and non-lucid examples. An appendix in the back of the book lists references and examples that can be found in other books.

I haven't managed to find this book anywhere yet, might try to order it someday.

----------


## Sandform

> well if there is no good argument against it, then why cant it be true?
> just because there is no conclusive proof of aliens, it does not mean they cannot exist somewhere, maybe beyond our reach (im not saying i believe in either im just making a point)  it is very well that aliens probably do not exist but there is always that chance



Actually, you can theorize on aliens existing because we have a scientific understanding of what results in life...  Given this understanding, we only have to do the %'s of likelihood that the components necessary for life would occur.

Anyways, I don't really care i'm just saying think about your rationality of these things before you say "prove it isn't true."  Prove leprechauns aren't true, see what i'm getting at?  You can't prove something true or false when the stipulation is,

"its true somehow"  

Give me a how and i'll prove that untrue, but if you give me a "somehow" then wtf can I do with it? lol.

----------


## themuffinman

fair enough but CAN you prove that leprechans dont exist? lol so although i dont believe it, its still a possibility that they do lol ( its the pain in the ass tactic, you cant win lol)

see but there are many things that are unknown about the human unconcious and subconcious, we still, up till this day, dont even understand for 100&#37; why we dream so there are many things that might not be able to be explained now and that shouldnt disprove them.  If you take that aproach then i could easily disprove all religions then. there is no substancial proof or even any substancial reasoning to heaven, any higher entities or beings or anything, theres no way to explain it, if your taking that approach lol.

----------


## Naiya

Honestly this sounds like something a bunch of teenagers made up to make themselves sound cool.

IF they are telling the truth, what you have is a bunch of people who are simply adept at mutual dreaming. They just happen to categorize themselves as good, evil, or neutral like it's a stupid D&D game, despite the fact that we are ALL human beings, and thus none of us really fit into any of those categories. 

The second thing I'd bring up is the fact that in my experience you really can't get inside someone's dream just by a post in a forum. You usually need to have met them, or at LEAST have a picture or voice to go on. 

Can I mutual dream? Yes, in theory (still working on getting better circumstantial proof; it's difficult finding a skilled partner). Do I label myself with something that sounds like it's from a bad fantasy movie? Hell no.

----------


## sam dreamer

they can cotrol ur dreams if they find the key to the dream and they cant dream themselfs in waking day they are just normal people but every min they walk is the same energy as been awake lv 1 and 2 walkers cant leave a dream untill the walker or dreamer wakes if they cant find the thing that runs the dream they are nothing they get the skil threw blood i read this im no expert

----------


## spitfire riggz

so i think to put it short. dream stalkers are agent smiths in your dreams. they kan kick your ass but if your strong you kan kick there ass. u just gotta focus

----------


## themuffinman

sounds about right to me lol and i guess dream walkers are like morpheous (how the hell do you spell it).

hmmm now that you mention it, the whole story that is here so far sounds oddly familiar

----------


## spitfire riggz

yeah. ppl are just making it more complicated. the guy said there was dream walkers and knight stalkers and rouges. but just sounds like smiths, oracles, and neo's/trinity/matrix ppl. except that rouges work alone

----------


## Xibran123

So, rogues like on both sides or what?

----------


## spitfire riggz

rouges are just the ones that dont belong. the dude said that the ks and dw are like gangs, his motto also said "ks fear me, dw hate me, and something about being a rouge

----------


## Xibran123

Hahaha. Its kinda funny. Gangs have even evolved into dreams....(sigh)  ::?:

----------


## Xibran123

Fighting some NS's sounds like fun. it'll give me something to do in an LD

----------


## spitfire riggz

yeah (sigh). i hate that. BUT THATS WHY U BECOME ROUGE!!! anyways.... in the dream world its not on the physical body, but who has the stronger mind. so it shuldnt be all getting jumped and what not. but anyways. yeah, im guessing rouges just are ppl that dont want to dreamwalk, they just defend themselves

----------


## spitfire riggz

but did you not read that guys warning?? do u have the ballz to stand up? (thats why i wanted to dream share) kick some asssss!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Xibran123

I guess, I mean Im not really a guy to follow warnings (J.A for example)...hehe

----------


## spitfire riggz

hahahahah!! good one! good one!!..... *wooo* (sigh) good one. (i mean it)

but yeah, it would be cool. "hone" your mind and spirit to become stronger

----------


## Xibran123

i'd probably freak the dude out....

----------


## Xibran123

besides, I can relive some of my favorite video game scenes

----------


## spitfire riggz

what do u mean? u mean ud freak the ks out??

----------


## Xibran123

Yea, i'll just summon some freaky shit. Or just hide and make a clone, send it out and I'll just run.

----------


## spitfire riggz

hahahah. dude. its another person walking into dreams to terrorize ppl. i dont know if theyd fall for that. anywayz. i think i kan wild today. do u wanna try again?

----------


## phonix

I think this has happened to me! While dreaming these two hooded people came out of no where hissing in an icey voice, "We're going to kill you" I knew that nightmares could be killed so I tried but I just coudn't, I tried to exit my dream but it was like that they were holding me into it, I freaked out. Every time I went into a different dreamscape they cut a hole and climbed into my dreamscape, luckily from sheer will I got out of my dream just before one of them  stabbed me. The scary thing was that... they knew my name...

----------


## dorpis

Whoa, that sounded cool and scary. Going into your dreamscapes...

----------


## spitfire riggz

> I think this has happened to me! While dreaming these two hooded people came out of no where hissing in an icey voice, "We're going to kill you" I knew that nightmares could be killed so I tried but I just coudn't, I tried to exit my dream but it was like that they were holding me into it, I freaked out. Every time I went into a different dreamscape they cut a hole and climbed into my dreamscape, luckily from sheer will I got out of my dream just before one of them  stabbed me. The scary thing was that... they knew my name...



DAMN DUDE. thats some serious stuff. but yeah most people explain these guys when they go up to punch somebody and the guy just blocks it and kicks your ass. not like the normal dream character, who would just stand there like an idiot

----------


## Sandform

Who is the game master?

----------


## themuffinman

> I think this has happened to me! While dreaming these two hooded people came out of no where hissing in an icey voice, "We're going to kill you" I knew that nightmares could be killed so I tried but I just coudn't, I tried to exit my dream but it was like that they were holding me into it, I freaked out. Every time I went into a different dreamscape they cut a hole and climbed into my dreamscape, luckily from sheer will I got out of my dream just before one of them  stabbed me. The scary thing was that... they knew my name...



if they were in your dream why shouldnt they know your name.  weather their just normal dc's or they actually are NS's  they would need to know your name anyway right?

----------


## panta-rei

Yea, Almost all my DC's know my name.

----------


## Digital.Totem

I can't believe people are waging challenges. Some of you were probably born with a great deal of power  over your dreams, others have worked to become lucid and seemingly able to traverse to the dreams of others. I often find that with out APing you can't actually reach a person very effectively. Though I believe given a name or face I could find them given a bit of time. I've seen big bad things in my dreams, lucid dreams where I am in total control I have run into one such being in a milk white suit and dark bowler cap. He scared the hell out of me, I tried over and over again just to wake up from that. I've been doing this for a long time and there are guys that the man in white out there, but you'll feel the mallice before they can get very close to you.

----------


## Think0808

It’s strange that a lot of you guys out there have never heard of dream walking. I have a book on my bedside that teaches people how to dream walk and though I’ve never had a confirmed dream walk, it is a very simple thing and you don’t have to be asleep to dream walk. In fact it’s easier to dream walk to someone who is dreaming and you are just meditating. 

It is a very simple concept you just have to prepare yourself to dream walk, by creating dream signs that help you to dream walk. For instance when I dream walk I start out in my own space, I have a temple in the middle of a vast desert and it is always night. Very starry sky and a huge cast iron gate like the ones to cemeteries in movies, which is my “Dream Gate” it will take me to anyone’s dreams that I can imagine.

If anyone would like me to prove this to them I’d love to try and get a good confirmed dream walk. When I get home I’ll get more information on the book if anyone is interested in reading it. It is very informative and helpful.

Also I’ve never heard of Dream Stalkers. I may be a Dream Stalker without intending to. I am a very strong person in my dreams physically and mentally, and I have killed lots of people in my dreams. 

What do you guys think?

----------


## themuffinman

> It’s strange that a lot of you guys out there have never heard of dream walking. I have a book on my bedside that teaches people how to dream walk and though I’ve never had a confirmed dream walk, it is a very simple thing and you don’t have to be asleep to dream walk. In fact it’s easier to dream walk to someone who is dreaming and you are just meditating. 
> 
> It is a very simple concept you just have to prepare yourself to dream walk, by creating dream signs that help you to dream walk. For instance when I dream walk I start out in my own space, I have a temple in the middle of a vast desert and it is always night. Very starry sky and a huge cast iron gate like the ones to cemeteries in movies, which is my “Dream Gate” it will take me to anyone’s dreams that I can imagine.
> 
> If anyone would like me to prove this to them I’d love to try and get a good confirmed dream walk. When I get home I’ll get more information on the book if anyone is interested in reading it. It is very informative and helpful.
> 
> Also I’ve never heard of Dream Stalkers. I may be a Dream Stalker without intending to. I am a very strong person in my dreams physically and mentally, and I have killed lots of people in my dreams. 
> 
> What do you guys think?



you bastard night stalker scum!!! lol jk, sounds really interesting, please post the title and author if you can, i am interested in getting a copy.

----------


## Think0808

It’s pretty sweet and a lot of the practices are the same for Lding and dream walking. I know the title of the book is “Psychic Dreamwalking” and the author wrote something about being a Psychic Vampire too. Anyone know what that is referring to? “Vampires”??

----------


## Raccoon

> and the author wrote something about being a Psychic Vampire too. Anyone know what that is referring to? Vampires??



Make a topic wherever it belongs, and post a link here.. Ill explain what I know, but it will be a serious derail to do it here.

----------


## Kangster

> Its strange that a lot of you guys out there have never heard of dream walking. I have a book on my bedside that teaches people how to dream walk and though Ive never had a confirmed dream walk, it is a very simple thing and you dont have to be asleep to dream walk. In fact its easier to dream walk to someone who is dreaming and you are just meditating. 
> 
> It is a very simple concept you just have to prepare yourself to dream walk, by creating dream signs that help you to dream walk. For instance when I dream walk I start out in my own space, I have a temple in the middle of a vast desert and it is always night. Very starry sky and a huge cast iron gate like the ones to cemeteries in movies, which is my Dream Gate it will take me to anyones dreams that I can imagine.
> 
> If anyone would like me to prove this to them Id love to try and get a good confirmed dream walk. When I get home Ill get more information on the book if anyone is interested in reading it. It is very informative and helpful.
> 
> Also Ive never heard of Dream Stalkers. I may be a Dream Stalker without intending to. I am a very strong person in my dreams physically and mentally, and I have killed lots of people in my dreams. 
> 
> What do you guys think?



I'd love to share a dream with you
I should be asleep tonight between 6:00PM GMT-8 (DreamViews time) and 8:00PM GMT-8

lookin' forward to it ::banana::  :wink2:

----------


## Digital.Totem

It's been a few days now since I've seen her, but there is a woman with silver hair, black eyes and a very sharp nose. She is usually wearing a very fine gown. I know this isn't a DC because when I was altering a dream scene she asked me what I was doing, I've never known a DC to even notice, you can take off fly and come back and they are likely as not to ask you about the weather. I've talked to her a bit, and she says it's strange that I'm "there" so often. I don't know exactly what she means by this, but I once tried simply to move her or make her look different, because I already thought she was real and didn't want to "attack" her by trying to dissapear her, and she asked me why I was trying to do that to her. She's shown no hostility just a strange interest, but she seems to have to find me, because I'm usually midways into a LD when she enters, and I mean enters I've seen her pop into being in place of a DC.

Also she knows my name, my real name, not the one I'll give to DC's when they ask. The way she says her name sounds like OH-Key almost like OK but key If any of you have seen her, I'd love to know what you know about her.

----------


## themuffinman

> It's been a few days now since I've seen her, but there is a woman with silver hair, black eyes and a very sharp nose. She is usually wearing a very fine gown. I know this isn't a DC because when I was altering a dream scene she asked me what I was doing, I've never known a DC to even notice, you can take off fly and come back and they are likely as not to ask you about the weather. I've talked to her a bit, and she says it's strange that I'm "there" so often. I don't know exactly what she means by this, but I once tried simply to move her or make her look different, because I already thought she was real and didn't want to "attack" her by trying to dissapear her, and she asked me why I was trying to do that to her. She's shown no hostility just a strange interest, but she seems to have to find me, because I'm usually midways into a LD when she enters, and I mean enters I've seen her pop into being in place of a DC.
> 
> Also she knows my name, my real name, not the one I'll give to DC's when they ask. The way she says her name sounds like OH-Key almost like OK but key If any of you have seen her, I'd love to know what you know about her.



that sounds really interesting and funny in a creepy way. i would mess around with her just for fun, like drop a bucket of jello on her or something like that, see her reaction.  ask her if she is just your DC or if she is a real person, ask her her real name, ask her math, ask her: the meaning of life, who started the chuck norris jokes, why cant anybody touch MC hammer, why cant you believe its not butter, how much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood, and other stupid stuff, i would have so much fun with it.

----------


## Kangster

ROFL, sounds fun!

Off-topic:
Why did everything seem to turn to russian over-night? I logged on and most of it turned back to English, but the "Prieview Post" button is is russian...or something, maybe just a bunch of German umlauts...

----------


## themuffinman

exactly what i was thinking, i keep on doing RC's just to make sure tho lol im like "I CANT READ THAT!!! RC TIME!!!"  dissapointed every time *sobs*

----------


## themuffinman

OH god... Im not saying that i believe yet ( i still want to believe) but this is just freaky.

i will post my dream from last night.

Cyan is normal dream
Magenta is vivid part
Green is dream related notes
Black is non dream related notes





> *Treasure Hunts, Flaming Dudes and High Speed Foot Chases*
> 
> My sister, my dad, and I were with my cousins on my moms side of the family.  We stopped at a place to get some cookies.  my cookie took longer to order than theirs so when i finally took my cookie from the lady at the counter, i turned around and my family was not there any more.  As soon as i started eating the cookie, the dreamscape changed. then me and a couple people from school ( i only recognized about 3 of them) were doing a treasure hunt and we all got clues on a little piece of paper and we were broken into two different teams that were allies but were competing at the same time (if that makes any sense) written on the paper were the clues (which i could read suprisingly) the ones i remember had the word "fat" written in sloppy larger cyan letters to the left and right of the clue which said "meet us in scout" so apearantly scout was the place we started in and we were all getting irritated because it was really far away but i realized that thank god i was not the fat team so i gave the other team the clue (lol wierd?)  then the other clue said "learn the fishing skill from the man on the dock" which i already thought we did so we were going to meet them in "Shi Zhang" (which is a place in the game i used to play) so we were running through a little community of portables (little trailer rooms used for school propped up to made semi-permaneant) when we finally reached a dock which we were running at, i was appearantly the leader of the group because when i had dropped my bag with my clothes in it at the portable place, one guy started running back saying "i cant leave my SiFu's bag" (i never saw him again  ) so we were running on the docks and i was running in the back because i was the leader (wewt i could actually run in this dream, i ran FAST no wading in knee deep water kind of run, actually a sprint) i looked over my shoulder and it turns out we were being chased because it had turned night (it was dusk in the portables area) so i sprinted even faster to the lead of the group to encourage them and when i got to the front the people in persuit of us ( they seemed to be holding purpleish torches)  were getting closer.  It got to the point where they caught up to us and they were actually all on fire (not "ahh put me out" kind of fire but like they were supposed to be)  so we kicked them all into the lake and were happy.  We kept running as more approached then as they caught up to us my friend ben (my friend in real life too, genius of a kid, 1400+ on his SAT's at first attempt i only got 1280 on my first attempt and that is a good score to settle at if your a senior i took pre calculus in 10th grade he took Calculus AB and BC which are both advanced courses just to show you how smart he is and the normal 10th grader course would be algebra2 or integrated math) he told me "theres too many of them, we need to" and i finished his sentence with him "kick them in to each other!" so he slowed down untill he was just in front of the leader and back kicked the leader just to slow him down a little but the effort was basically to no avail because all it did was just slow him down.  Then the leader said " if you try to 1v1 us (attack them on one person against one of flaming creature dudes) then you will loose.  And then i woke up.



after i typed it in this morning, (just 10 minutes after) i calle dmy friend ben and asked him how long ago did he wake up he said (basically you just called me and woke me up) after apologising i asked him if there were any chases in his dreams he said he was on fire and he was not chasing anybody but runing because he was on fire and he smelled water to put himself out.  he said the last thing he remembered was a lady with whte hair and the moon behind her, she was wearing a dress or skirt, i dont remember what he said.   OO creepy stuff

----------


## skunk

last night i had a dream and in it I saw my friend sitting next to his ex girlfriend.  I told him he was in my dream, and then a few minutes later mentioned he was next to her and then he said no way, she was in my dreams last night.  thats kind of like your dream muffinman, i guess.

----------


## Bacon the Pig

Yeah it was the weirdest thing. I'm the friend skunk is talking about btw.

----------


## Digital.Totem

You know how when you see a bear you know not to poke it with a stick, or how you know a teddy bear wont kick your ass for poking it with a stick. I get a very destinct feeling of don't fuck with me or I'll fuck back from the woman. I might talk to her, but I'm not going to pants her or drop nasty shit on her.

Actually, it's a lot like looking in a mirror and seeing something deep inside of you looking back. She seems kind, but I think she may be that deep down part of you that will cross any line in the name of your true goal. I'm not exactly afraid of her, I'm just afraid to piss her off, if she happens to be what I feel she is.

----------


## themuffinman

i had another dream where a lady froze and shrunk my head... she was wearing a fine gown but i dont remember her hair color and age, she didnt seem old though

----------


## Through the Looking Glass

I have yet to be attacked or even contacted by any outside force so as to convince me that this is possible.

----------


## themuffinman

> I have yet to be attacked or even contacted by any outside force so as to convince me that this is possible.



im not trying to convince anybody, i myself am still skeptical i just WANT to believe it so im trying to give it a fair chance before i completely discredit it.  Its probable that im just dreaming it because i want it to be there but i still find it kind of wierd.  hmmm try in your next lucid or dream try to talk to all your dc's and ask them. you never know.

----------


## JEG63

> Its strange that a lot of you guys out there have never heard of dream walking. I have a book on my bedside that teaches people how to dream walk and though Ive never had a confirmed dream walk, it is a very simple thing and you dont have to be asleep to dream walk. In fact its easier to dream walk to someone who is dreaming and you are just meditating. 
> 
> It is a very simple concept you just have to prepare yourself to dream walk, by creating dream signs that help you to dream walk . . .




Could you send me the ASIN number of the book if it's not a problem to find out?

I am 44 years old and in my 25 years of dreamwalking experiences I've found out that the really good dreamwalker is first and foremost a mind-reader (telepathy), and then gets into dreamwalking too.

Once, a dreamwalker shouted at me in my dream (it sounded so real that I woke up), and just before that had made me watch Larry King Live on pre-recorded VHS video, but the tape was playing in reverse; weird.

You were So right about the dreamwalker being Awake and in meditation; as opposed to being asleep. So many people think a dreamwalker is asleep; how can a snoring mind-reader scan your mind and tamper with your dreams?

About  psychic Vampires - they are, very basically, mind-readers/telepaths that prey on other mind-readers/telepaths. These telepathic people have a 
6th, sense and energy related to it; and they can attack and drain each other with weird or hurtful thoughts - it is commonly reffered to as Psionic Combat.
If you are a conventional 5-sense person, then you are practically immune to vampire/psionic attacks, and would probably laugh if it happened to you (after you got over being amazed).
You might, for instanse, get the thought of a dog or wolf jumping and biting you in your mind and could easily just shake it off, then you could send a thought back like "how silly you mind-readers are," and "stop it you're making me giggle uncontrollably!"
If you were a Telepathic psion on the other hand, this wolf-attack could seriously upset you and cause you to lose concentration, anger and frustrate you.

Dreamwalkers are real. There are only a few. By the time they are good at it they are in their 50's or 60's. I don't think they are going to come haunt every teenagers dream that asks for it. sorry.

----------


## OnceADreamer

May I kindly ask you guys: *What the bloody heck are you'll talking about??!!*

 ::?: 

That wasn't a real question that needs an answer since I have read some of this thread, but...this subject is pretty weird and interesting all the same. Ah, the wonders of BD. Gotta love it. Off to read the rest of the thread.

----------


## Omega Weapon

So I suppose there still is no evidence for this yet. ::roll::

----------


## themuffinman

nope guess not... still hoping though

----------


## Sarin

Do you's think that this is a Dream the night stalkers are entering or are you entering into another reality?
Think about it you have no control over you thoughts or moves? 
You actually have a conscious being with you in that realm

According to ancient shaman's there are three different realitys
Lower world
Middle world
Upper world
There are many shadow beings and other sorts or energy in these worlds, so no doubt you may be coming across them.
Although there are Gates to cross like the other fella said like big cast steel iron gates, that you need to get through.

These take for a normal conscious person alot of awareness and intent to cross these gates. I'm not saying who can and who cant, just you cant go to sleep and say "I'm going to do that tonight" it may take months, years or a lifetime to achieve these things.

----------


## spitfire riggz

> Could you send me the ASIN number of the book if it's not a problem to find out?
> 
> I am 44 years old and in my 25 years of dreamwalking experiences I've found out that the really good dreamwalker is first and foremost a mind-reader (telepathy), and then gets into dreamwalking too.
> 
> Once, a dreamwalker shouted at me in my dream (it sounded so real that I woke up), and just before that had made me watch Larry King Live on pre-recorded VHS video, but the tape was playing in reverse; weird.
> 
> You were So right about the dreamwalker being Awake and in meditation; as opposed to being asleep. So many people think a dreamwalker is asleep; how can a snoring mind-reader scan your mind and tamper with your dreams?
> 
> About  psychic Vampires - they are, very basically, mind-readers/telepaths that prey on other mind-readers/telepaths. These telepathic people have a 
> ...



man, i was reading this book about what my dreams meant, and i kept having the same crap, and i would look at the defignition and it would tell me something was sucking my energy or trying to control me. i wonder if this could be my answer (vampires)

----------


## Raccoon

> man, i was reading this book about what my dreams meant, and i kept having the same crap, and i would look at the defignition and it would tell me something was sucking my energy or trying to control me. i wonder if this could be my answer (vampires)



Could be, or a number of other mundane ( read: normal, boring ) things like your body simply being out of balance. Something trying to control you could have been someone else or your own fears... They're  your dreams, no one can make those calls but you.

----------


## spitfire riggz

yeah, i dont really believe those things anyway. well, not the dream books. no one can tell me what i dream about!  :smiley:

----------


## themuffinman

most of the time where people interpret other peoples dreams they make it really broad so it has to be true like "tomorrow you will breathe" (obviously thats an extreme but you get the point) like good things will come, and you are expecting good things so anything that is good you will be like "OMFG WTF BBQ!!!?!?!?! I KNEW IT WAS RIGHT!"  so yeah thats my 2 cents on mind reading/dream interpretation.

----------


## Aryaxon

I once encounted fear itself

----------


## themuffinman

> I once encounted fear itself



because thats not obscure in any way at all...  [/sarcasm]


an explanation would be nice lol

----------


## Aryaxon

In the dream it was night (nothing odd about that  :tongue2: ). I became lucid at some point while walking about a forrest so i decided to "sence" around me to see if anything was there. After a while of peacefull nothing everything suddenly changed in some small yet definat way, the air around me "changed" as if it was being infested by fear. At this i got up and ran (naturaly  ::D: ) all the while the fear in the air was increasing in rappid waves, as it got powerfuly strong i could feel it hitting me like hundreds of ripples each one building up fear inside me. Just as i thought i was going to go insane from the builtup fear inside me i emerged out from the forrest, ran a little further, then stoped and turned around. At this point i could feel that the waves were originating from an entity deep in the forrest and that by sencing it i discovered that for some strange reason it was me!. At this revelation it rushed forwards at me causing the waves to smash into me like a blast of air. I quickly woke myself up overcome with fear.

Its my belief that i had encounted my fear incarnate.

As for the possibility of saying it was a night stalker, when i senced it it was for example like when you look into a mirror you see yourself only with this being i could feel that it was part of me.

----------


## Raccoon

K, third times the charm.
And rereading, you say you think it was a part of you. Good, makes half my post obsolete.

If you think it was a part of you, I think it was the repressed part of your consciousness.. As for why, I really dont know. Very likely something in your life you needed/need to sort out, and were ignoring. 

.. And I just deleted half of this post, on purpose. If it is something in your life you need to come to terms with, find a positive way to vent out the feelings. 

Sorry this seems strange to read.. I wrote about 4 paragraphs worth that I decided to edit down for one reason or another.

----------


## The Cusp

Ok, this thread has been sucking lately, so lets try something new. 

*You post any dreams you think might be NS encounters in as much detail as possible here, and I'll tell you if it was just a regular dream or really a Night Stalker.*

----------


## mathieu

whats the deal about the watchers? i would really like to know more about them.

----------


## psychology student

> *You post any dreams you think might be NS encounters in as much detail as possible here, and I'll tell you if it was just a regular dream or really a Night Stalker.*




I was reading a thriller and the word "stalker" was used. Did I have an encounter?

----------


## Jdeadevil

> I was reading a thriller and the word "stalker" was used. Did I have an encounter?



Don't look back, just run, or he'll come out the page and.... No seriously, if you don't have enough realism.  ::lol::

----------


## mathieu

> Ok, this thread has been sucking lately, so lets try something new. 
> 
> *You post any dreams you think might be NS encounters in as much detail as possible here, and I'll tell you if it was just a regular dream or really a Night Stalker.*



a couple months ago i had a ld about fighting with this older man. he was dressed as someone out of the 1930s, with his hat pulled low covering his eyes. i tried everything to hurt him like, when trying to punch him i transformed my arms into snakes, but as they went to strike him he transformed his arms into some kind of sword. and slid them into the snakes mouths and ripped them open. then they kinda exsploded into ash. then he started laughing at me exsplaing he has been hear alot longer then me, an knew all the tricks. i tried energy beams and even this weird thing where i ball up dirt in my hands and it turns into the steel balls i can throw so fast they turn white hot. he just caught them in his hands and blew on them then they just turned to ash? was this a nightstalker? i ended waking myself up, brcause ive never ran into someone in my LDs i couldnt hurt.

----------


## The Cusp

> a couple months ago i had a ld about fighting with this older man. he was dressed as someone out of the 1930s, with his hat pulled low covering his eyes. i tried everything to hurt him like, when trying to punch him i transformed my arms into snakes, but as they went to strike him he transformed his arms into some kind of sword. and slid them into the snakes mouths and ripped them open. then they kinda exsploded into ash. then he started laughing at me exsplaing he has been hear alot longer then me, an knew all the tricks. i tried energy beams and even this weird thing where i ball up dirt in my hands and it turns into the steel balls i can throw so fast they turn white hot. he just caught them in his hands and blew on them then they just turned to ash? was this a nightstalker? i ended waking myself up, brcause ive never ran into someone in my LDs i couldnt hurt.



Sorry, no sign of NS behavior in that one.  WHile your opponent's invulnerability could certainly be a sign of NS, the dead give away that it wasn't was when he caught your ball attack in his hands.  That and a total lack of him trying to direct your attention.

In order for an "attack" to be effective, you have to make it real in your opponent's mind.  That is done by drawing their attention to your attack, making it more real in their minds.  The showmanship is probably more important than the attack it's self.  It's not impossible that someone could have caught those cannon balls like you described, but very unlikely.  

I'm more interested in details of how they attacked you and what they were doing before the attack.  The telling factor is how well they controlled your attention.  

anyone else?

----------


## Sativa

Now I am not sure if this post is related to night stalkers but I was reading these posts and see multiple ones mentioning an old lady. Gets me very curious as I experienced something a month ago that kinda made my life upside down. Maybe a coincidence but it have left me terrified.

Last years I am beginning to experience sleeping paralysis, I go to bed, fall asleep but shortly wakes up totally paralyzed but seem to be aware. This follows by some weird hallucinations,  as someone is there in the room, often pushing me down and some times I have not been able to breathe as if being choked. 

About 3 times ago, I had a very strong LOUD screaming sound in my ears but I was on my stumach and could not move or see the room. Second last time, that made me some what traumatized I saw an old lady. This time I was still quite wide awake as it first started to go paralyzed, and I was able to stop it before it feels too dissolving (like every atom in the body wanna go opposite direction) by tighten my muscles all I have and try to scream. I laid there thinking as it appeared again within a few minutes while I was still awake. I then managed to snap out of it just before it started to paralyze me completely and I was laying there even more confused. Somehow I started thinking about death and immediately when I thought the word  I was instantly paralyzed followed by the vision of an old lady, ripping her nails against me screaming with this horrible voice that she will do everything to destroy me. The structure in her face was not of aged skin but more as the skin was paled off showing the muscular structure. I have never felt so threatened and terrified before and that kinda made me stuck in a panic state which I am still suffering from in my waking time. I just felt a weird feeling,when I read about this old lady and would love to know more. And if you have any more information/experiences about sleep paralyses Id like to know/talk more about it, send me a IM? 

(Just want to mention also that I had another paralysis this night which was not as terrifying, kinda made me enlightened in a way. It just did not want to go away, I moved position in bed I tightened my muscles I screamed but it kept coming back instantly so in the end, very tired as I was i just gave up, laid on stumach and just tried to relax. It came back but this time I felt as I started to levitate in my bed about 1-2dm above it. I have never felt such a feeling of freedom before) I am so curious what is happening to me, I am so confused  :Sad: 

Thanks for your time ^^

----------


## The Cusp

> Somehow I started thinking about death and immediately when I thought the word  I was instantly paralyzed followed by the vision of an old lady, ripping her nails against me screaming with this horrible voice that she will do everything to destroy me.



The way things started going bad after you started thinking about death means it was a dream following your directed attention.

It's pretty common to encounter what is known as Threshold Enteties in the stages between sleep and awake, especially with SP.  Although all the threshold entities I've ever seen were all made of dark shadows.  Your description sounds like the classic old hag succubus.

----------


## anon1776

alright heres a dream I had, I'm unsure if this is what your talking about, it might be it might be not, its one of those dreams i've had that i've wanted to resolve for a long time but never have.

*dream*
I'm on some sort of rail train that is elevated off the ground as it pulls into a platform, it seems old and rusty, but still relativly high tech.  It is going somewhere.  We arrive on this sort of... I would describe it as a plane.  But only in the manner that it seemed to extend around flat, with grass and what not but there didn't seem to be anything in the distance, almost liek a floating island.  On that island was this old Japanese dojo type thing.  Some of the people on the train got off onto this plane and we began to attend this class inside the dojo.  In the dojo was this entity--just eminating coldness and hatred and anger-- just thinking about it, as i'm typing now gives me a tingly feeling.  The entitty came up to me, paralyzed in fear, and touched me in the chest.  it was so cold and just plain *evil*, i cant think of another word to describe it me and this entity began entered into combat, it chased me around away from the dojo, i remember the raw fear of being chased. I don't remember after that but I think at that time woke up from this dream.  what do you think?

\\the "entity" i can only describe as being slim, greyish, almost seemingly made out of old grey tattered cloth wrapped around a person.

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## themuffinman

> OH god... Im not saying that i believe yet ( i still want to believe) but this is just freaky.
> 
> i will post my dream from last night.
> 
> Cyan is normal dream
> Magenta is vivid part
> Green is dream related notes
> Black is non dream related notes
> 
> ...



bump, any NS/DW activity here?

----------


## The Cusp

That's a tough one *Anon1776*.  One the one hand I'd say no, because your entity started off as evil.  A NS would first have to direct your attention to negative aspects of the dream before he became became evil in your mind.  

On the other hand, this part does sound like the methods of NS.





> The entitty came up to me, paralyzed in fear, and touched me in the chest.  it was so cold and just plain *evil*.



Touching your chest like that provides a great opportunity for you to drink in all the evil he emanates.  By making you focus on the cold of his touch, it becomes more real in your mind, giving whatever it was (NS or DC) power over you.  Maneuvers like that are more effective than an actual assault.

I'd say think about when you first saw the entity.  Did your attention get drawn to it naturally, or did it direct your attention?  Same with the combat part of the dream.  You have to look if your dream was responding to where you directed your attention (intentional or not), or if the potential NS was in control of your attention.  Once you see how they can manipulate you, it's mind blowing, like watching a pro athlete make an awesome play.  


*Muffinman*, all I can say is those colors suck.  That blue is impossible to read.  But from what I could make out, I didn't see any signs of NS.

----------


## zekobu

IM with The Cusp on this, COME AND GET ME! Seriously though i like being scared even if its just something jumping that wouldent scare a 3 year old. If it cant actually harm me & i can get some awesome thrills, ill do it. This whole war or whatever u want to call it would make a good dream even if it isnt real. but on the whole idea of u being able to control them id think of it like this, THEY are in YOUR territory, theyre still themselves but in ur city .

----------


## themuffinman

well if all they say is true they would be able to controll themselves but you should be able to conroll the envirnoment/other non NS/DW   Dcs in your dream

----------


## seeker28

For a second, lets all pretend this is all real, for the sake of argument.

I think a potential problem with dream walkers, night stalkers, demons, angels, unusual entities, etc.  is that those who *do* know about them know enough to SAY NOTHING to the general public.  And DV would certainly qualify as the general public.

The problem is, tooting your own horn, revealing hard-won knowledge, and all that is a very juvinile sort of thing to do.  If we are correct in stating that DW and NS are human AND that it takes work, skill, knowledge, whatever to become one it should be safe to assume that they are going to be in their 50's or older.  Very few 50 year olds who have spent a life time persuing this kind of power are going to be willing to blithely share their secerets.  

And nobody wants to share power, now do they?

----------


## dorpis

Okay, I've had dreams with the dream (or whatever) character in it alot. He's a pediphile.

It usually starts off with me walking home with a friend. As my friend goes to his house, I continue. The area was sort of like a factory, but outside. It was lined with these strange machines (which I find cool). As I turned around (a habit of mine when I walk) I see this man, in my dreams, his face is usually covered by hair or a hood, or because he's too far to see. Anyways, I could tell he was really far. So I did the smart thing, I continued to walk, and when I made a curve, I ran for my life! But when I turn around awhile later, I see him, he was even closer now! I could tell that he was smiling, as if amused by my efforts. As this all happened, this feeling of fear creeped in me. He was evil. Other times, I'm walking home at night (that was this dream) other times I'm walking in a crowded place. But these dreams always occur in similar places, such as this very high tech school, or this kind of strange town that looked to be from the 1940's or something. And the man was a clown one time, I believe. Also, while talking normally with my friend, I feel safe and cool. But as my friend leaves, I start to feel nervous...

----------


## spitfire riggz

well i truly dont think this is one. but give it a try. last night i had this really vivid dream where im at a skatepark, but the skatepark turns out to be real crappy so i keep walking. after the park, there are these sort of stairs, the place is half parking lot/skatepark half kinda movie theater, with a red capet. anyways, so im up on these stairs, and i drop a dollar (hahah) down the edge of the story. this security guard picks it up and for some reason i reach with all my heart to try to get it. he looks at me and his face kinda turns into a clown. but i go down the stairs and proceed to chase him, but he easily gets away. he starts super jumping and i get a wierd feeling

----------


## Griman

For those of you who are interested, there is a facinating book called The Dream-Hunters of Corsica by Dorothy Carrington.  Not fiction; very interesting.

----------


## Sandform

Yo don't worry about that old hag any more, some dream walker said they killed her in one of my dreams a while back =P.

----------


## anomanderis

Haven't read this thread in a _long_ time now... seems like a lot of infidels have started showing up. Not that I care really, since its up to each one to discover the truth for themselves. Besides, its awfully hard trying to prove something that happens to you in your dreams...
Even if they don't exist (which i think is unlikely), i just love a good fight. It's just so _exhilarating_.
I've been fighting a lot more recently than i used to. Nothing that I would describe as NS activity, though the flashy attack of the last leader of the bunch (she threw a violet-pink-red swirling tunnel of energy at me) was a tough one.

Edit: Though I am almost certain that i met a pair of brother-sister DWs a while ago. DW meaning any sort of friendly entity who exists outside my mind. (though yes, if one considers that all is one, then nothing exists outside my mind...)

----------


## JEG63

> ... those who *do* know about them know enough to SAY NOTHING to the general public.



I don't understand; why would one who knows a-lot about them Not talk about them... because he might get his ass kicked in his dreams everynight for revealing their secrets?





> The problem is, tooting your own horn, revealing hard-won knowledge, and all that is a very juvinile sort of thing to do.



Again, I don't understand... how is it juvenile? If nobody ever talked about arcane subject matter, we would still be in the dark ages as a society.






> ...it should be safe to assume that they are going to be in their 50's or older.



probably not all, but most; there are always young and energetic upstarts rising to power; beginning in their late teens I would imagine.

----------


## The Cusp

> well i truly dont think this is one. but give it a try. last night i had this really vivid dream where im at a skatepark, but the skatepark turns out to be real crappy so i keep walking. after the park, there are these sort of stairs, the place is half parking lot/skatepark half kinda movie theater, with a red capet. anyways, so im up on these stairs, and i drop a dollar (hahah) down the edge of the story. this security guard picks it up and for some reason i reach with all my heart to try to get it. he looks at me and his face kinda turns into a clown. but i go down the stairs and proceed to chase him, but he easily gets away. he starts super jumping and i get a wierd feeling



Regular dream.  It's normal to meet weird people at skate parks.  But seriously, all he did was steal your dollar!

----------


## The Cusp

> Okay, I've had dreams with the dream (or whatever) character in it alot. He's a pediphile.
> 
> It usually starts off with me walking home with a friend. As my friend goes to his house, I continue. The area was sort of like a factory, but outside. It was lined with these strange machines (which I find cool). As I turned around (a habit of mine when I walk) I see this man, in my dreams, his face is usually covered by hair or a hood, or because he's too far to see. Anyways, I could tell he was really far. So I did the smart thing, I continued to walk, and when I made a curve, I ran for my life! But when I turn around awhile later, I see him, he was even closer now! I could tell that he was smiling, as if amused by my efforts. As this all happened, this feeling of fear creeped in me. He was evil. Other times, I'm walking home at night (that was this dream) other times I'm walking in a crowded place. But these dreams always occur in similar places, such as this very high tech school, or this kind of strange town that looked to be from the 1940's or something. And the man was a clown one time, I believe. Also, while talking normally with my friend, I feel safe and cool. But as my friend leaves, I start to feel nervous...



I'll rate that one Maybe to Quite possibly! ::shock::   What kind of interactions take place between the two of you?

----------


## dorpis

Nothing, except me running, him walking-chasing. Though I always get into a house that I know I live in and I wake up shortly after. Once, I was walknig in this area that I wake up in alot, and while I was walking, this hand grabbed me, and I saw a man, though I knew that it wasn't the same one from my other dreams, I'm sure this one was a dream character, he hauled me onto his back and walked away. I kicked and punched, then I was let down. I saw another man, and he said that the first one was a foreigner and didn't know the customs here. I turned towards the first and saw that he was smiling guilltily. Anyways, when I woke up, I knew that the normal pedophile man was evil and the foreigner was a nice guy who didn't understand things, I can also tell they were different becasue of race.

----------


## Sandform

Ok so wait...How do you know your not the Dream walkers in THEIR dreams?

Hmm, you never thought about that did you?

Anyways how do they find you?  I mean wtf...they just somehow know that your a lucid dreamer...and then they come into your dreams to fuck with you?

I'm not even trying to discount this on a scientific level, just look at it in an intellectual level.  They have nothing better to do than waste their time having pretend fights with you?  lol.

----------


## dorpis

Lol, I'm just typin' ma dreams. ^6

----------


## Sandform

hehe.

----------


## seeker28

> I don't understand; why would one who knows a-lot about them Not talk about them... because he might get his ass kicked in his dreams everynight for revealing their secrets?



No, that's not what I meant.  I was just observing that many who have intimate knowledge of the supernatural, etc. don't share that knowledge for several reasons.  Because it is a secret is one.  Because they don't want to be viewed as crazy or liars is another.  Because the general public really isn't ready to know is another.





> Again, I don't understand... how is it juvenile? If nobody ever talked about arcane subject matter, we would still be in the dark ages as a society.



In my own experience the young tend to be more eager to talk about, share, etc. strange events and knowledge than those who are older or more mature.  I'm NOT saying these things shouldn't be talked about, I'm just saying most people do DO talk about them are young or somewhat immature.





> probably not all, but most; there are always young and energetic upstarts rising to power; beginning in their late teens I would imagine.



Certainly!  I was saying that MOST DW and NS are probably older.  I didn't say ALL.

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## spitfire riggz

> Regular dream.  It's normal to meet weird people at skate parks.  But seriously, all he did was steal your dollar!



nahhh man!! HE STOLE MY FREAKIN DOLLAR!!! i MUST track him down..... make him pay.... with his life... ::shock::

----------


## Lunica

are the Night Stalkers and Dream Walkers? dark and made of what seems like shadow?

I and a friend have encountered shadowy forms near my bed. 


My friend saw them around him like a dome was protecting them from getting him
I saw them near my bed coming towards me. I was awake..falling to sleep.
Very very scary night that was.. I woke with a lot of nightmares and I kept seeing them around me.

:[

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## The Cusp

> Nothing, except me running, him walking-chasing.



That also sounds like NS tactics.  The slow relentless pursuit is ideal to captivate your attention.  They don't even really want to catch you, trapping you in a chase _is_ the attack.  If it was NS, look for clever ways in which he directs your attention.  





> Though I always get into a house that I know I live in and I wake up shortly after.



That's funny, I have a place I always retreat to in my dream as well.  With me it's the river.  I always try to lose my pursuers in the rapids.





> are the Night Stalkers and Dream Walkers? dark and made of what seems like shadow?
> :[



I'm pretty sure those shadow thingies are something other than dream walkers.  Exactly what they are, I couldn't tell you, but those things are freaky as hell.

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## dorpis

Oh, I don't know, that pedophile man scares me, I can't get away, it's as if he has power and I don't.  :Sad:

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## Wolf_Demon15

Night stalkers sound very cool but I would never be one. Tormenting people isn't my thing... or is it? Just kidding! ::D:  I have my own tasks that I want to accomplish and fighting a night stalker is one of them. I was thinking of challenging one to see if I would win. Is this a bad idea? (If it is I might do it anyway. :tongue2: )

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## Maeni

Hmm...


Set up a website.

Convince people you are a Night Stalker.

Make people pay you money.

Night Stalk people and tell them they are dreaming.

?????

Profit!! 

Hmm.. I'd pay!

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## The Cusp

Just want to start linking threads of people who claim to have shared dreams here in this thread.

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=58470
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ghlight=shared
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ghlight=shared

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## tkdyo

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=58481

well, Im not getting any response from the dream interpretation area...so if you guys think this sounds night stalker-esqu, then tell me, or was my own subconcious just controlling me ?

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## spitfire riggz

> Just want to start linking threads of people who claim to have shared dreams here in this thread.
> 
> http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=58470
> http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ghlight=shared
> http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ghlight=shared



wow, those are very interesting..... im a little  ::?:  and jelous. ive been trying to share a dream with my kuzin. no luck. if we ever do though, ill give the most detailed expanation i kan ::D:

----------


## JEG63

> Ok so wait...How do you know your not the Dream walkers in THEIR dreams?



You know you're not the dreamwealker in somebody elses dream because you are not a natural born telepath that is experienced at dreamwalking.
I know it's hard to understand the difference, but if you were sound-asleep when a unique and strange dream-character appeared and then woke up, you may have been dreamwalked; and if you were WILDing, DILDing, or APing when a strange DC appeared, then it could have been one of many things, including dreamwalking, or just your own mind.





> Anyways how do they find you?  I mean wtf...they just somehow know that your a lucid dreamer...and then they come into your dreams to fuck with you?



OK. how does a mugger find you? maybe he waits by an ATM machine late at night and gets lucky.
Then how does a dreamwalker find you? 
_For effect and to prove a point_, I mildly cyberstalked you for a few minutes: you are 17yo, live in west Texas, I saw your picture of you, family, brother home from military, and I got your face in my memory.... I could go on, but I stopped. (i totally apologize for this).
A DW/NS would keep on gathering info and photos until they could finally scan your waking mind (use telepathy to read your mind) then they would look into your mind day after day until they found out when you usually fall asleep. then they could start nightstalking you.

A dreamwalker/Nightstalker is a telepathic-capable person; they would perhaps lie down and go into somewhat of a lucid dream state (I think they are lying awake with eyes close very meditatively); now since they have the added feature of telepathy under their hood, they read your mind and catch you falling asleep, then wait for you to dream and then read your mind while you are dreaming and use a feature they have called output-telepathy which allows them to put thoughts into your head, thus putting dreams together in your mind... dreamwalking you.

And about shadowbeings: this same DW/NS, instead of waiting for your dreaming mind to do a dreamwalk on you; they can instead attack you with something called Psionic Combat; they can do this to you when you are in an alpha mind state (that drowsy state of mind just as you are beginning to fall asleep).
During Alpha-mind-state anybody can become briefly and temporarily telepathic (very vulnerable or receptive to input-telepathy, or the output-telepathy of others), and thus receive telepathic communication from an experienced mind-reader/dreamwalker/nightstalker - now if they are trying to trip you out with shadow people, then that's what you will see. 
Doing the manipulation of darkness and shadows in the mindscape of telepathy is easiest for most; that's why shadowbeings are by far the most common thing people have been seeing.

----------


## The Cusp

Another claim.
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=58470

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## Mohd

Night Stalker do what they do so they can feel a whole again. They also protect certain places in the Astral\Dream realm that shouldn't be crossed. They exist in the astral realm rather the dream realm. They invade your mind from there. They  went deep into the Astral world. 

Though, they're easy to avoid. Once they enter your territory, they become weaker. Just imagine a shield of light around and believe on that shield. That is the easiest way fight them honestly.  :tongue2:  Rarely someone do that technique.

----------


## anomanderis

> Night Stalker do what they do so they can feel a whole again. They also protect certain places in the Astral\Dream realm that shouldn't be crossed. They exist in the astral realm rather the dream realm. They invade your mind from there. They  went deep into the Astral world.



I see....
So that they can they feel a whole or feel whole? Why should all of them have the same "objective"? Because of their nature as Stalkers? But that alone is not enough.
Why did they go deep into the astral world?

----------


## Mohd

> I see....
> So that they can they feel a whole or feel whole? Why should all of them have the same "objective"? Because of their nature as Stalkers? But that alone is not enough.
> Why did they go deep into the astral world?



The answer to your last question is curiosity. They empower themselves with training. (They train their imagination) and better imagination means better control in the astral plane means being more powerful. So they have more access to several places in the astral that other people cant reach. 

I don't know how someone becomes a stalker. But I think it just happens depending on past circumstances and I think it is a natural thing. 

Why all of them has the same objective? Because they have something incommmon. They feel more stable shielding themselves under others energy, using their own to rise in astral. I really dont know, they just feel better and sometimes it is essential to protect certain places. But they never hurt. They never drain your to the point where you can die or never go back to your body. 

It is easy to fight them, unless they invade your non-lucid dream, then your dream will turn like a normal nightmare. Thats why they target newbies mostly. Because they panic, and once they have the thought "Oh no, he is a stronger being! He is gonna kill me" the stalker can do anything he wants.





> And about shadowbeings



Dont worry about shadowy figures. They are as weak as hell, and I don't think they are creatures. They are your fears and problems. You just have to face them and they'll disappear. When they disappear you'll notice that in your life. You'll be more relieved.

----------


## anomanderis

> The answer to your last question is curiosity. They empower themselves with training. (They train their imagination) and better imagination means better control in the astral plane means being more powerful. So they have more access to several places in the astral that other people cant reach.







> But they never hurt. They never drain your to the point where you can die or never go back to your body.



That almost sounds like they were the good guys. At least as far as motives go.  





> They feel more stable shielding themselves under others energy, using their own to rise in astral. I really dont know, they just feel better and sometimes it is essential to protect certain places.



So, when they invade another's dream, they are shielding themselves? From what?

I'm not doubting you or anything. Just that I want to know. Curious.... :wink2:

----------


## Mohd

> That almost sounds like they were the good guys. At least as far as motives go.  
> 
> 
> 
> So, when they invade another's dream, they are shielding themselves? From what?
> 
> I'm not doubting you or anything. Just that I want to know. Curious....



You have the right to doubt. I dont pretend that I know everything. As I stated before, I am a newbie to Lucid dreams but I used to go Astral before, I can go to the astral naturally  :smiley: . But I am now interested in Lucid dreams more because they are more fun. I can alter the whole world, live in the medieval ages or in the future. 

Well, they shield themselves from other creatures. They use your energy for other thing and to increase theirs so they can bypass another levels of astral.  Higher levels in astral require more powerful energy. 

I don't believe that they are good. Most of them are evil, and they can have fun manipulating others dreams. 

You can read more about them in shamanism books. Or shamanatic dreaming and such.

----------


## ChaybaChayba

I have a theory. Maybe what you perceive to be nightstalkers are actually just normal people who accidently go into other peoples dreams, they think the other people are just dreamcharacters, but they dont realize they are actually messing with real people! How can you know the Nightstalkers aren't just people who aren't aware they are dreaming? Have you talked to Nightstalkers? I want to hear something from a Nightstalkers himself..

----------


## Mohd

> I have a theory. Maybe what you perceive to be nightstalkers are actually just normal people who accidently go into other peoples dreams, they think the other people are just dreamcharacters, but they dont realize they are actually messing with real people! How can you know the Nightstalkers aren't just people who aren't aware they are dreaming? Have you talked to Nightstalkers? I want to hear something from a Nightstalkers himself..




Nah, I don't think so.It can be true, but very unlikely. Nightstalker do it in purpose. They discover that power to manipulate other dreams using the astral and they abuse it. Sometimes they do it for fun only.

----------


## DeliriousDonkey

Goddamn it... I thought I'd found a forum of lucid dreamers, not a bunch of RPG'ers who've watched too many anime's and read to many fantasy novels.

I'm open to shared dreaming... however, it just seems like this thread is filled with veteran forum members messing with the n00bs...

----------


## anomanderis

> Goddamn it... I thought I'd found a forum of lucid dreamers, not a bunch of RPG'ers who've watched too many anime's and read to many fantasy novels.
> 
> I'm open to shared dreaming... however, it just seems like this thread is filled with veteran forum members messing with the n00bs...



Remember that you are in the Beyond Dreaming subforum  :wink2:  If you don't know what that means, then you should've read the rules a bit more. (Beyond Dreaming is not meant for arguing or dissent, but for likeminded individuals).

Just you wait, though, with the right experiences you'll turn about ::D:  (but even i don't believe in it 100&#37; (more like 98 for existence, but it gets way down into the 50s and 60s for motives and so on..) I don't have enough experience yet)

----------


## DeliriousDonkey

I see... well, sorry then.. Seeing as so many replied to this thread, I was beginning to think this was common belief... Well, if it was common belief, I'd probably begin believing myself, but you know.

----------


## Maeni

I really think these things lack information, how do these people know these things?

How do you know that night stalkers do it on purpose? The mind is a powerfull thing, it should be perfectly able to make you think some thing is real. It could be just a nightmare, a piece of nightmare, followed by a spark of doubt, that spark of doubt sets your 'I'm-so-powerfull-mood on fire, making the dream into a partial nightmare.

If they exist, where are they? Who are they? Why do they do it? How did they learn it? I doubt they've been taught to go into other peoples dreams... Imagine, if you knew how, you could
1. Tell people how to do it to become famous and respected.
2. Make a book about how to do it & sell it to become famous, respected and rich.
3. Mess with peoples dreams for the lulz, not becomming anything really.

Why would they do such a thing?  It's just plain stupid, makes no sense at all.

And while I'm at it, while I shouldn't ask in this thread, someone please for the love of whatever, what is it that can happen while astral projecting that is "Worse than death, much worse"? How the hell can you know if it's worse then death, when you obviously never have died?! And most likely, never have tried whatever it is that is worse than death. Oh, and also do you know anyone who has tried this thing which is worse than death?

I'm sorry but so far, while I wouldn't be so straight forward as, I am still with DeliriousDonkey, to me this makes no sense at all. It's like the good old "The Earth is flat, because I say so, and NASA is lying, because I say so, I dunno why. But they lie."

I'll probably open up a lot more of some of my questions in this post is answered, it's not because I don't see any possibility in being a nightstalker, I just want to know some motives, why?

----------


## seeker28

I have a question.

Has anyone ever _believed_ that they have encountered a demon (deffinatly NOT a NS/DW) during a dream (lucid or not)?  If so, is anyone willing to describe the experience?

----------


## seeker28

> I really think these things lack information, how do these people know these things?
> 
> How do you know that night stalkers do it on purpose? The mind is a powerfull thing, it should be perfectly able to make you think some thing is real. It could be just a nightmare, a piece of nightmare, followed by a spark of doubt, that spark of doubt sets your 'I'm-so-powerfull-mood on fire, making the dream into a partial nightmare.
> 
> If they exist, where are they? Who are they? Why do they do it? How did they learn it? I doubt they've been taught to go into other peoples dreams... Imagine, if you knew how, you could
> 1. Tell people how to do it to become famous and respected.
> 2. Make a book about how to do it & sell it to become famous, respected and rich.
> 3. Mess with peoples dreams for the lulz, not becomming anything really.
> 
> ...



 :laugh:  you crack me up!

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## DeliriousDonkey

No demons... I've been playing around with summoning spirits... I've summoned them into me 2 times. 1 time I got thrown in to a dark void, just wondering wtf the spirit was up to. I woke up, and my body was in the same place it was before I let it in.

Yesterday I invited one in and we had sort of mind-sex(tantric shit.)

Dunno if this is self-hypnotism or whatever, but it's really hilarious. Anybody want a tutorial, and I'll tell em how(I haven't experienced any side-effects btw.)

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## Maeni

> you crack me up!



Well that's quite good  :vicious: 
I feared some of the believers would feel offended, so, positive tha' is!

I hope someone can answer, though. Answers to those questions, I think would make the topic much more 'serious'.

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## The Cusp

> 1. Tell people how to do it to become famous and respected.



Not gonna happen.  You don't gain respect by talking about such things, only ridicule.  





> 2. Make a book about how to do it & sell it to become famous, respected and rich.



It's been done.  I posted about a book about this very subject somewhere in this thread, and I think other people posted about a couple of other books as well.  





> I just want to know some motives, why?



Either they do it because it's a great way to practice your skills, or they do it to teach.  Maybe both.  I've been trying to sum up what I've learned from my NS encounters here:  http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=57283

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## Maeni

> Not gonna happen.  You don't gain respect by talking about such things, only ridicule.



Hmm, I see how that would go, indeed. But if they were able to give techniques to how to do it, people would try wouldn't they? Ofcourse, there would be people calling fake and hoax and what not, but if the techniques works.
And many people already post things that gains them nothing but ridicule from non-believers, while they're clearly understood by all the believers. I don't think a Night Stalker would care about the non-believers trying to ridicule them. 






> It's been done.  I posted about a book about this very subject somewhere in this thread, and I think other people posted about a couple of other books as well.



I guess I can't comment too much on that answer before I dive back into the thread and find it, but still.
If there is a book with something in the lines of "how to be a night stalker" somewhere in it, that'd be something to make me believe a bit more.
And what about interviews with said stalkers? Who are they? 
Don't answer to those, they're just wondering questions, I'll search for answers when diving back in.





> Either they do it because it's a great way to practice your skills, or they do it to teach.  Maybe both.  I've been trying to sum up what I've learned from my NS encounters here:  http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=57283



Ah, think I saw that somewhere. While I haven't read it through to the tiniest detail, I couldn't find anything concrete about Night Stalkers, I know about that they try to attract your attention, thus giving themselves more detail and gaining more power from that. 

Eugh, I'll dive back before I ask too many questions that will be answered anyways.

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## Mohd

> Hmm, I see how that would go, indeed. But if they were able to give techniques to how to do it, people would try wouldn't they? Ofcourse, there would be people calling fake and hoax and what not, but if the techniques works.
> And many people already post things that gains them nothing but ridicule from non-believers, while they're clearly understood by all the believers. I don't think a Night Stalker would care about the non-believers trying to ridicule them.



All the techniques for invading others mind and dreams start with going out of the body. That's the first step. There loads of techniques that can help you be more powerful in the astral realm and thus, gain the ability to invade others. Though, the techniques like everything else requires loads of practice and dedication.





> And if I told people that I am a nightstalker or a dreamwalker what do you expect their response? If they believe they'll tell me how evil is that and how bad is this though it is not harmful. Or like most of the time, you'll get laughed at. So why bother?
> I guess I can't comment too much on that answer before I dive back into the thread and find it, but still.
> If there is a book with something in the lines of "how to be a night stalker" somewhere in it, that'd be something to make me believe a bit more.
> And what about interviews with said stalkers? Who are they?
> Don't answer to those, they're just wondering questions, I'll search for answers when diving back in.



Reread this thread to learn more about NightStalkers. There are books produced about NightStalking and dream walking. Most of them are shamanism books and so. 





> Why would they do such a thing? It's just plain stupid, makes no sense at all.



Mostly for fun since it cant really hurt the victim. Also, to reach the peak state. 


Just a last note, NightStalker or most of them are relatively weak if they enter your zone. You're stronger than them unless you thought the opposite. 






> Has anyone ever believed that they have encountered a demon (deffinatly NOT a NS/DW) during a dream (lucid or not)? If so, is anyone willing to describe the experience?



I don't believe that you can meet real demons on lucid dreams. I think the real ones are in the astral. But dont worry, you're always protected by your physical body and spirit creature called "Guides".

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## Sunalli

Well, my input on it is that they really should have no power over you. If they walk into YOUR dream, you have the home field advantage. And, as said many times before, Dreams can't hurt you. Since if you are Lucid you have control. If you have many encounters with the Night Stalkers, you could try and train yourself to push them away and out of your dream. Besides, you can have super awesome mega cool powers. Heck, you could just smash them with some crazy ass power ray for all I care.

All they are is peoplewho just like the scare people. You can tell yourself the pain ins't real, and it isn't. I've meditated myself out of pain before. I ht my shoulder, and it kept hurting. I kept telling myself it didn't hurt, and before I knew it the pain was gone!

So, if they attack you in your dream, just laugh. I'd pretend I was in some fighting game, and become this super cool hero. In your Lucid dream, your only limitations are your will power, mind, and belief.

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## ChaybaChayba

You people talk about astral projections, dreamwalkers and nightstalkers, but nobody seems to be able to do it. This is making me really suspicious. We are on the Beyond Dreaming forum, you don't have to be afraid to talk about this... Anyway, if anyone claims to be able to enter my dreams, feel free to, and don't forget to leave a clear message which can be confirmed here on these forums. Like tell me your age or something, and we'll see. If you want more information about me to be able to find me and resonate with my thoughts, just leave me a message and we'll talk on msn with my webcam.

I'm open for it, I believe it's possible, but I don't believe anyone here on these forums is able to do enter a dream of another person of choice.

Also, I find it very suspicious nobody even tries to do it either. I don't see people on these forums trying to get into eachothers dreams, only like once in a while, and they try it only one time. It's like trying lucid dreaming one time, and if you fail the first time, giving it up and thinking it's not possible. I think people deep down inside don't believe in it or they would talk about it more.

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## The Cusp

> Also, I find it very suspicious nobody even tries to do it either.



I've been trying!  I'm just not lucid as often as I'd like (but who is?).  So far I've gotten a few good tries in, 2 of which were lucid.  ANother, where I wasn't lucid, but went to bed with the strong intention of finding my target, I managed to come up with a fairly accurate description of my target.  I've accurately described people I've never seen three times from regular dreams.

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## Dreamhope11

DW and NS hmmm first time i have read this thread and it sounds real enough to me. Can i just ask the nice faction to come help me in my dreams to increase my lucidity... And NS don't even bother..... no really dont. -.-

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## jenova

mm nice thread , i am new in the lucid and every thing , but from what i understand i have be doing it in a strong way long time ago , have been able to change my dreams totally and i mean not do something in the dream but i mean move to a new dream and but evry time i do that i am aware that i am dreaming only when i am moving from a dream to another , but some times its a nightmare when i know i am dreaming but i just can find "lets call it the power" to change it so i wake myself up from my dream , i dont dream much just 8 or 10 times evry year sometimes never , but just to tell something about nightwalkers and dream walkers ....... we make our dreams but sometimes " we have alittel help by something " ........ doubt keeps us alive fear kills us

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## anomanderis

This morning I had my second possible NS encounter a few dreams after I had been fully lucid so I was fairly semi-lucid during the time.
A guy had broken a glass candle casing of an Orthodox church and was being punished by a Russian clergyman in the little shack next to the church. I assumed that he would only get his ass severely striped, but when he came out his face was completely pale and had eyes as that of a dead fish.
I went to the clergyman and asked if he realized how evil his actions really were.
Suddenly he towered above me, his face contorted in a carnivorous smile. The abrupt and powerful sense of total evil he emitted threw me off balance and I felt slight fear as I took a few steps back.
He pulled me towards him with Force pull and then pushed me away before I could retaliate. By this time my mind had already executed emergency dream exit procedures.
If this really was my second NS encounter, then this was also the second time I was caught by surprise. By the time I had mustered myself for a counterattack, the fear (even if it wasn't that great) had given him control over me.
I considered him to be a NS, because he felt intrinsically the same (EVIL!) as the "person" from the first encounter.

Of course, here the fact that I asked him how evil he was, could've transformed the DC of a clergyman into an evil NS. Possible...

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## The Cusp

Here's another good account of shared dreaming:
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...430#post819430


Anomanderis, I don't know that NS would be completely evil like in your dreams.  They're just people after all, and nobody is _that_ evil.  I'm quite sure all my dream encounters with pure evil was just me messing with myself.

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## Tyson

6 days to the first anniversary of this crazy thread. Ready the champagne!

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## ChaybaChayba

This might explain the Nighstalkers...



LOL. I don't know wether she's B/Sing or not, but it's funny =P

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## anomanderis

That was thoroughly amusing :smiley: 
I'd like to believe its true.

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## Croneus

Well then. After reading most of these things and having my own conclusions about what dreaming is, I'd say it sounds as if some people have taken their dreams, fantasies, movies they've watched and D&D games, rolled them together with a healthy dose of desire to be more than they are, and come up with a great outlet for them. Night Stalkers and Dream Walkers. Right... my skepticism radar is screaming at me on this one.

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## Anon

I don't know about NS and all that but there was rumors of a sect of druids that learned how to communicate in dreams to escape death from the Romans. I don't particularly believe in all the exacts of it, but its a world of possiblilities.

  The human brain evolves every second of everyday, we are comprised of more energy and the ability to project or share that energy is insane? hmm.. Sounds like someone else has issues.

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## mfratt

> Well then. After reading most of these things and having my own conclusions about what dreaming is, I'd say it sounds as if some people have taken their dreams, fantasies, movies they've watched and D&D games, rolled them together with a healthy dose of desire to be more than they are, and come up with a great outlet for them. Night Stalkers and Dream Walkers. Right... my skepticism radar is screaming at me on this one.



+1

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## ubigcow

::banana:: I believe! ::banana:: 


 ::roll:: *In some things.* ::roll:: 


 ::rolllaugh:: Just not this. ::rolllaugh:: 

Anyway. I have read this whole thread. All of it. Even the tiny threads on page 15 and 22. And it was interesting. I enjoyed it more than many books I have read. I said above that I don't believe in this, but I can picture a world were this is possible, so I will debate it like I do.

There have been many theories as to how people dreamwalk. I don't know what to accept, probably the radio theory. EDIT: the radio theory is out, thanks to the post by adam has a dream below. I don't know why people dreamstalk, but I think it is for several reasons: they get enjoyment out of it, they get power out of it, and they get expirence out of it. Now, I don't mean they get power that they suck out of the dreamer. I mean they get more powerful by dreamstalking. This might be power over the person, or it might be power over themselves. The expirence part is somewhat similar. By practicing dreamstalking, they get better at dreamstalking and imagining stuff and getting people's attention (The Cusp's theory @ The Nature of Dream Control seems good to me). Why would people want to be better at these things? Because, if you could nightstalk better, it would be easier to convince your boss to give you a raise, you could influence politics, you could get a oil company to give you a discount, ect. Why not practice on a bunch of other people who you don't care about first? Now, their are many reasons good imaginations are useful, for writing books, for art, for music, ect. Getting people's attention while they are asleep is much like getting their attention while they are awake, I believe. Knowing effective ways to get people's attention would help people who want to lower drunk driving,  global warming, world hunger, ect. get groups organized. Also, people who know what gets people's attention would also know what doesn't. This would be helpful to people trying to, say, launder money or something. Also, if the techenque for going unnoticed that I read somewere works, (you behave so normally that people forget they see you almost as soon as they do) this would be invaluable to it. The most common reason, I believe, (if dreamstalking isn't too hard to do) to dreamstalk is for enjoyment. There would be two ways to achieve enjoyment out of dreamstalking people: deliberately tormenting them and accedently harming them. Why would you just bully a guy at work or school, if you could bully him when he is alseep too. Or you could bully many more people than you meet in waking life. Or you could bully people just in your dreams so you would have friends in the waking world. On the other hand, like some dude said early in this thread (I'm too lazy to find it; I tried.), one could dreamstalk accidentally. I wouldn't be suprised if over 50&#37; (Made up stat) of the expirenced lucid dreamers on these forums have sometimes done things in their dreams that would hurt the DCs if they were real. I, for example, beat up a car for no reason in a LD and then beat up some random dude with it. The chances of the random dude being the other person in your dream (if, of course, there was one) would probably be suprisingly high if your subcontiousness sensed something odd about them. The attention theory would imply that, if you payed a little more attention to some "DC" since it was odd, it would be more likely to be a target when you decide to do something violent, as you are already paying more attention to them. The "DC" would be another person who you were sharing dreams with, so it would continue to be odd.

Book to read: Wake by Lisa McMann

The Cusp, I really like your thread on attention.

 :Off topic: Has anyone here at least tried to dream in 4D? I have been trying to do this one and off for years, but when I met someone (on this thread) who also tried, I decided maybe I could get help. PM me if you have or you know someone who has.

Dreamhope11, your sig and av are cool.

 :woohoo: This is the longest post I've made on these forums.

*I believe in  :boogie: s :laugh: m ::microwave:: i ::drink:: l :lock: i :poof: e ::fly:: s :drool:  (Yes, I know, a bit of overkill. But that sure beats underkill.)

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## adam has a dream

> There have been many theories as to how people dreamwalk. I don't know what to accept, probably the radio theory.



What I'm most skeptical about it the how part. Any theory that involves an electromagnetic send/receive link is most likely bullshit because
1) any emissions on the EM spectrum would be detectable as they would interfere with communications
2) even if something was being sent, it would be drowned out by all the sources of EM we have in modern life - _every part_ of the spectrum has something on it.

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## ChaybaChayba

> What I'm most skeptical about it the how part. Any theory that involves an electromagnetic send/receive link is most likely bullshit because
> 1) any emissions on the EM spectrum would be detectable as they would interfere with communications
> 2) even if something was being sent, it would be drowned out by all the sources of EM we have in modern life - _every part_ of the spectrum has something on it.



Light is also an EM wave, nub. Light doesn't get 'drowned' out or doesn't interfere with communications or whatever.. you're so full of it. Also, your whole body and brain communicates through an 'electromagnetic send/receive link'. That's also how your eyes perceive light, they resonate with lightwaves. Which basicly make your eyes an EM link between your brain and the outside world. I don't understand why you would want to try so hard and come up with completely illogical explanations to try and show it would be impossible? This is the beyond dreaming forum fyi, not the science forum. And even if it was, your 'scientific explanations' don't make any sense at all.

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## adam has a dream

how are you going to get a light link between two people?
do you know a thing about physics? apparently not.

you don't have an EM link in your body, the only time electricity travels through your body is when it goes between the synapse and axon in a nerve, the rest of it is ion transfer.

i understand that humans receive light, but i'd like to ask you, how is it that humans transmit light?

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## adam has a dream

> That's also how your eyes perceive light, they resonate with lightwaves.



your eyes don't resonate with lightwaves, that's bullshit.
you have two types of light-detecting cells in your eyes, rods and cones.
rods detect light intensity
cones detect colour
nothing resonates.

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## Tyler

Wow...i just saw this thread...
I didnt read the entire thing bcuz i dont have enough time...
But im gonna do like The Cusp and challenge any DreamWalker or DreamStalker to enter my dreams. I want a DreamWalker/Stalker to help me become Lucid...and i want to see what they are made of.

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## Black_Eagle

This thread is a little....out there to say the least. I'm fascinated at this concept of Dream Walkers/Night stalkers though. Very little proof outside one's own experiences though. 

C'MON NIGHT STALKERS MAKE ME BELIEVE!!!

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## ubigcow

> What I'm most skeptical about it the how part. Any theory that involves an electromagnetic send/receive link is most likely bullshit because
> 1) any emissions on the EM spectrum would be detectable as they would interfere with communications
> 2) even if something was being sent, it would be drowned out by all the sources of EM we have in modern life - _every part_ of the spectrum has something on it.



Good point. I hadn't thought of that. ChaybaChayba doesn't know what he's talking about.  The statement that every part of the spectrum has something on it is not quite true, but close enough. Even if the waves were on a part of the spectrum that wasn't used for communications, thus would doubtfully be detected, there is a lot of noise at every frequency. 

I don't know how dreamsharing would be possible, but for the sake of the conversation, let's say that it is. Then we just have to figure out why. EM emmisions are out. I'm going to edit my first post.

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## lynxthenko

I heard that dream walkers could help you become lucid in your dreams.  Im asking anyone who can to help me become lucid.  I really want to be able to control my dreams!

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## adam has a dream

> Good point. I hadn't thought of that. ChaybaChayba doesn't know what he's talking about.  The statement that every part of the spectrum has something on it is not quite true, but close enough. Even if the waves were on a part of the spectrum that wasn't used for communications, thus would doubtfully be detected, there is a lot of noise at every frequency. 
> 
> I don't know how dreamsharing would be possible, but for the sake of the conversation, let's say that it is. Then we just have to figure out why. EM emmisions are out. I'm going to edit my first post.



Yeah I was thinking a combination of communications and noise, which like you say would make it very difficult to detect.

Haha thanks, I've learned long ago that Chayba has no idea what he's talking about...

I'd love to believe in dream sharing and a few people even claim to have done it, but the mechanism eludes me.

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## ChaybaChayba

> your eyes don't resonate with lightwaves, that's bullshit.
> you have two types of light-detecting cells in your eyes, rods and cones.
> rods detect light intensity
> cones detect colour
> nothing resonates.



How do you think they 'detect' light? By resonating. Duh? How else would this process be possible?! It's like a tuning fork that resonates with sound, thats how your eyes work. If you don't know what resonating means, why do you even bother arguing about it and saying it's bullshit and impossible! LOL please. What's next, you're going to say it's bullshit that the earth is round? Just do some random googling or read whatever source that talks about the mechanics of eyes and light detection.
http://homepage.mac.com/dtrapp/essay...oOnVision.html




> There are several kinds of light detectors on the back side of the eyeball.  Faint light is detected by rod-shaped detectors and brighter light of various colors is detected by three types of cone-shaped detectors, each sensitive to the different range of color with sensitivities centering on blue, green, and red light.  *The cones must contain different organic molecules with conjugated double bonds that absorb the light that matches the resonance frequency of the electrons in the conjugated double bonds.*  The energy from the absorbed light briefly breaks one of the rigid double bonds, allowing the molecule (called retinal) to rotate to a new shape.  The newly shaped molecule interacts with a much larger protein (named opsin), setting off a series of chemical reactions which that causes ion channel proteins imbedded in photoreceptor membrane to open and for change in polarization,  This starts an electrical signal passing along the cell membrane surface of the optic nerve to the brain.  The chemistry of the retinal seems well understood and the successive protein and nerve reactions fit with many other similar enzyme reactions that occur in living creatures.



If they wouldn't resonate, how the hell would you explain interaction with waves if not through resonance? You seem to know better than current science, I'm all ears to hear your theory.

Besides it's obvious science isn't advanced enough to figure out how the mechanics of dreamsharing would work. Science can't even figure out the mechanics of gravity (of course some people will claim science can, eventho this is only an example, feel free to demonstrate and go off-topic without coming up with "bending of spacetime" if you can't help yourself), so how are you gong to start and figure out the mechanics of dreamsharing?!

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## anomanderis

I think we should all realize that since we (I would guess that almost, if not, all of us) will not be able to give a proper scientific explanation for several reasons:
1) Lack of scientific knowledge
2) Half-baked assumptions on generalized "facts" that certainly are not the entire truth  there is to it. (Lets face it, we've all sinned on this one...)
3) Misunderstanding of scientific knowledge
4) And science itself doesn't _know_ (or even have a fracking clue?) yet the things we want to know.

Therefore it is almost to the point of pointlessness arguing over such things here in this thread.
Or so I think, at least.
As much as I'd like to know how it is possible, flameing is not a way to it...

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## ubigcow

ChaybaChayba, when I said you don't know what your talking about, I meant about two things:





> Light is also an EM wave, nub. Light doesn't get 'drowned' out or doesn't interfere with communications or whatever.. you're so full of it.



Light *does* get drowned out. Have you ever tried to see my house? Or China? Or the top of the moon? Light gets drowned out by objects in its path. All EM waves do this too, but light is of smaller wavelenth than the EM radiation used for communications. This is why such small things as, say, a freshly picked booger can stop it. Light could theoretically be the median of shared dreaming, but if it was, then you couldn't share dreams with someone you can't see. Also, people would _glow_ when they were sharing dreams. (emitting and recieving light) What I and probably adam has a dream meant was that all frequencies that could be used for relatively long distances and could get past moderate obsticals (like sheets) are transmitted on or have noise on them.





> I don't understand why you would want to try so hard and come up with completely illogical explanations to try and show it would be impossible? This is the beyond dreaming forum fyi, not the science forum. And even if it was, your 'scientific explanations' don't make any sense at all.



I do not believe that adam has a dream is trying to "come up with completely illogical explanations to try and show it would be impossible." (the sentence I took this out of doesn't make sence at all.) He is showing that that explanation is impossible. That does not mean that shared dreaming is impossible, much like proving that mach 15 ram jets are impossible doesn't prove that mach 15 jets are impossible. Our 'scientific explanations' make sense.

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## Mr_Jinsue

Just found this thread, but in short are we suggesting that people are going to sleep and either consciously or sub-consciously vandalising other people's dreams? If that we true I imagine people's dreams would be a lot more messed up, but then again, maybe the person's dream which is invaded is somewhat distorted or protected by their host's mind.

At the very least bring it nightstalkers, I am yet to have a good fight.

Cheers

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## Tyler

Could any Dreamwalkers/Dreamstalkers that are on this thread please PM me.
I'd appreciate it.

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## Tyler

I'm going to bed now....
Gonna try for my first lucid...
Dreamwalkers/Dreamstalkers welcome.

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## What??Me??

I'm going to continue the tradition of challenging nightwalkers. So bring it on (mooooooga!(battle cry of the random))

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## What??Me??

Also, Sanzora you have the coolest avatar. Go me!

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## lucid4sho

This post turned 1yrs old bout a week ago.  ::breakitdown::  Happy Birthday Post!!

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## CJ1145

So the mystery of the Anti-Spider is revealed!

Waaaaaaay back, in my first every lucid dream, about three years ago, I became Spider-man, and was incredibly powerful. However, something I called "The Anti-Spider" Showed up. It was the exact opposite of Spidey's costume (Red<--->Blue, Black<--->White), shot flaming webs  ::shock:: , and was just nearly as fast as me, along with even stronger.

Incredible fight, lasted a good ten minutes, we tangled in the air for who knows how long. Eventually, we fell of the Empire state building and I woke up... from a six foot fall. (Loft beds are dangerous!)

I know I had control of the dream, so it seems the only explanation of there being something I absolutely cannot defeat.

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## ubigcow

> This post turned 1yrs old bout a week ago.  Happy Birthday Post!!



O ya, Happy Birthday Thread.  :woohoo:  ::breakitdown::  :Party:  Someone posted that the thread would turn 1 about one or two pages ago, but I forgot about it when I posted my first post on here. Took me like 3 days two write. (kept getting distracted: stupid life)

BTW, its a thread not a post.

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## Croneus

I will go ahead and concede the fact dream walking of some kind MAY be possible, simply due to the fact that a) there is a lot of things about the human brain we do not understand yet and b) there is a lot in the realm of quantum physics that we cannot understand. It's always possible until disproven that the human mind is capable of emitting some kind of brain waves or energy in some form while dreaming that we are unaware of or unable to quantify at this time. However that being said, I still find such things to be a bit of a stretch, along with telepathy in any form, and even OBE's as well. Always a skeptic but always willing and enjoy being proven wrong and learning something new.

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## lucid4sho

"BTW, its a thread not a post."

good point! thanks.

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## adam has a dream

> How do you think they 'detect' light? By resonating. Duh? How else would this process be possible?! It's like a tuning fork that resonates with sound, thats how your eyes work. If you don't know what resonating means, why do you even bother arguing about it and saying it's bullshit and impossible! LOL please. What's next, you're going to say it's bullshit that the earth is round? Just do some random googling or read whatever source that talks about the mechanics of eyes and light detection.
> http://homepage.mac.com/dtrapp/essay...oOnVision.html
> 
> If they wouldn't resonate, how the hell would you explain interaction with waves if not through resonance? You seem to know better than current science, I'm all ears to hear your theory.
> 
> Besides it's obvious science isn't advanced enough to figure out how the mechanics of dreamsharing would work. Science can't even figure out the mechanics of gravity (of course some people will claim science can, eventho this is only an example, feel free to demonstrate and go off-topic without coming up with "bending of spacetime" if you can't help yourself), so how are you gong to start and figure out the mechanics of dreamsharing?!



Chayba, you stated that your *eyes* resonate with incoming light. That is a load of shit. While the quoted portion of the article is correct, it says that the *chemical bonds* in the molecules in your eyes resonate with light of a particular wavelength. That's entirely different to _your whole eye_ resonating. Make sure you make *accurate* claims and understand what I'm saying before you tell me I'm wrong.

I didn't make any claims at all about resonance within bonds. If you'd like to go into a lengthy discussion about resonance, I'm quite happy to do that.

Don't go quoting science and then saying science is bullshit. Go live in a forest with absolutely no technology if you feel that way, otherwise shut the fuck up. Do you have an explanation for gravity? Science does! It might not be a quantum mechanical one but it's perfectly fine in the classical realm. I now ask you, what is your explanation for gravity?

Dreamsharing and gravity are two different things. Science can explain a whole lot of natural phenomena so your point is completely invalid.

In conclusion: EM radiation cannot be used to explain the mechanism of dreamsharing.

----------


## ChaybaChayba

> Chayba, you stated that your *eyes* resonate with incoming light. That is a load of shit. While the quoted portion of the article is correct, it says that the *chemical bonds* in the molecules in your eyes resonate with light of a particular wavelength. That's entirely different to _your whole eye_ resonating. Make sure you make *accurate* claims and understand what I'm saying before you tell me I'm wrong.



LOL you actually thought THE WHOLE EYE would vibrate along with the light? You didn't think I was talking about the rods and cones? Please... I said nothing about the whole eye, I said light detection happens through resonance. I said the eye resonates with light, and you agree obviously.

You can't even explain the mechanics of gravity, but you're confident you can explain dreamsharing? And now you admit yourself that your eyes resonate with the light, what the hell dude, first you say they can't, and now you say the complete opposite and say they can. We completely agree and still you go into arguing and claiming what I say is bullshit, but you say the same fucking thing. This is ridiclous...

----------


## adam has a dream

*LOL you actually thought THE WHOLE EYE would vibrate along with the light?*
No, you said:*I said the eye resonates with light*
According to those words, that was your belief.
Reread the part of my post you quoted for my rebuttal.
Then deal with it.

*You can't even explain the mechanics of gravity, but you're confident you can explain dreamsharing?*
I didn't attempt to do either of those.
Reread the part of my post that refers to EM radiation and dreamsharing.
Understand that I stated EM radiation cannot be used to explain the mechanism of dreamsharing.
Understand that I stated I wasn't making any attempt to explain the mechanism of dreamsharing.
Then deal with it.


* And now you admit yourself that your eyes resonate with the light, what the hell dude, first you say they can't, and now you say the complete opposite and say they can.*
No, I didn't.
Re-read my original post.
Then re-read the top secion of this post.
Then realise you are trying to twist my words.
Then realise you are failing at twisting my words.
Then deal with it.

* We completely agree and still you go into arguing and claiming what I say is bullshit, but you say the same fucking thing. This is ridiclous...*
Read all of my posts about EM radiation in relation to the mechanism of dreamsharing.
Realise we are not saying the same thing, I am saying one thing, then you are attacking it with complete nonsense. After this I reply with a true statement. Then you attempt to tell me my statement is wrong, and finally you try to tell me that I was saying what you originally said.
Learn to read.
Learn to understand.
Learn to admit you were wrong.
Then deal with it.

----------


## lucid4sho

I've had several verified shared dreams, but they happened randomly, I can't do it at will. If I ever learn to enter peoples dreams I'm definitely on the night stalker side  ::twisted::

----------


## ChaybaChayba

> ...



Dude, when you say the eye detects lights, you also mean the rods and the cones, and not the whole eye. Just like when I say detection happens through resonance, I don't mean the whole eye together with the eyelids and the eyebrows resonates and vibrates along with light.. lol please. I just try to keep it simple. Light detection happens through resonance. This is a fact. No point in arguing about science, science is science, you can't change it. If you want to know wether I'm "lying" or telling the truth, do some research. I know you're too lazy to do so, so I did it for you. But you still go and argue about.. what?  You do realize, in order to argue, you actually need to bring up some arguments. And "no", "wrong", and "bullshit" aren't arguments.

We completely agree that light detection happens through resonance, first you said BULLSHIT, and now you say.. what? You forgot to get to the point. 




> your eyes don't resonate with lightwaves, that's bullshit.
> you have two types of light-detecting cells in your eyes, rods and cones.
> rods detect light intensity
> cones detect colour
> *nothing resonates.*



I have no idea anymore what you claim tbh, first you say one thing, and then you go and claim the complete opposite. You have lost your point and got stuck in arguing about your ego.

----------


## Hukif

hey, I didn't knew there were people who used dreamwalk ability to stalk others... I only know that I can dreamwalk (go into other peoples dreams)

----------


## What??Me??

Hey nightstalkers what's wrong? Cant find me? ;P Still... bring it on!!!!!!!!!!! Also if you're a dreamwalker welcome to my crazyness

----------


## Tyler

yeah...
i didnt get visited either...
But give them time....
Also....my challenge is still open.

----------


## What??Me??

"But give them tiiiiiiiiiiiiiime" you say....Bah! I'm impatient!!!

----------


## Tyler

Come on Stalkers! Walkers!
I'm inviting you just like The Cusp did!
You showed him you were real!
Now show me!

----------


## adam has a dream

> Dude, when you say the eye detects lights, you also mean the rods and the cones, and not the whole eye. Just like when I say detection happens through resonance, I don't mean the whole eye together with the eyelids and the eyebrows resonates and vibrates along with light.. lol please. I just try to keep it simple. Light detection happens through resonance. This is a fact. No point in arguing about science, science is science, you can't change it. If you want to know wether I'm "lying" or telling the truth, do some research. I know you're too lazy to do so, so I did it for you. But you still go and argue about.. what?  You do realize, in order to argue, you actually need to bring up some arguments. And "no", "wrong", and "bullshit" aren't arguments.
> 
> We completely agree that light detection happens through resonance, first you said BULLSHIT, and now you say.. what? You forgot to get to the point. 
> 
> I have no idea anymore what you claim tbh, first you say one thing, and then you go and claim the complete opposite. You have lost your point and got stuck in arguing about your ego.



You're not worth talking to.
You claim I am changing my stance when you twist my words.
I know exactly what I'm talking about because I've studied the absorption of light by atoms and molecules intensively, maybe you don't understand it but that's ok.
Now I'm going to let this topic run its due course.

----------


## lucid4sho

Fable, i bet no one is entering your dreams because they are afraid of upsetting spherecat and unleashing his wrath.  ::biggrin::

----------


## Croneus

> blah blah blah resonance



Basic rundown on how the human eye works.

Actually, nothing in your eye resonates. Of the roughly 5 million cones and nearly 100 million rods, they are stimulated by light. Cones deal in black and white (brightness), to form shadow, width, length, depth, night vision, ect. Rods deal in color. Of the three rods there are long, medium and short, dealing in yellow, green, and violet. Stimulation for the color blue for example would be when a photon of light hits the eye in such a way as to stimulate enough of violet, and enough of yellow, but not too much of either.

The main thing in them is the pigmented photoreceptor proteins. Rhodopsin (rods) and iodopsin (cones) are released when light stimulates the cones and rods after being focused through the retina, the proteins and ions released are stimulated in the optic centers of the brain, allowing you to see. Loss of cones causes blindess, as you cannot distinguish brightness, and loss of rods leads to night blindness. Color blindness is caused by brain/nerve damage.

The eye actually processes images in an upside down/reversed fashion, and everything in your field of vision is actually a series of images all about the size of a standard postage stamp. Your brain pieces everything together like a large puzzle. This is how you are able to have blind spots in your vision, or little optical illusions that make you miss seeing colors if you focus on a central black dot, or the gray lines, ect.

p.s. still no Nightstalkers... once again someones fantasies and need for control and betterment of their ego through exaggeration lead to random crap on the interwebs.

----------


## Keiju

eye sight is odd tho, the younger you were the worse the detail in the images get

you cant remember the images from eye sight without having differentiated between all the "seperate" objects

at birth, there was only existence, then you start to give labels to "seperate" objects. "Seperate" is wierd coz seperation can go on infinitely, so can combining, so you can see something as a whole image or see something as a combination of seperate objects, so you can go in infinite detail by seperating objects and making the picture sharper/clearer but you go out of focus and start to lose sight of the "whole". You can combine everything and get a more accurate picture but you start to lose the sight itself since you have no objective reference points without labels,

if you dont have a label for something, it doesnt stand out in the image/sight, almost doesnt exist since memory seems to work by combining two senses, like a word(sound) and image, touch and image, taste and image, whatever

so in this sense, "resonance" sort of works, you have to "tune" into the frequency of the particular object in order to "see" it, but you can "see" the same thing in infinite number of ways so anway... i think this is what most people mean by "resonance" in relation to eye sight, not the sight itself but the combination of another sense (this one being the one you can tune, usually changing the combination of sounds/words) with the sight to alter perception

like... if your mind state is happy(so now we are tuned into the happy frequency, which will be different for everyone since all words are subjective), anything you associate with the word happy will stand out (or resonate) more in your eye sight, thus altering perception, not necessarily that you are actually happier but picking up what you visually percieve to be happiness i guess...

----------


## adam has a dream

I liked your post until...





> so in this sense, "resonance" sort of works, you have to "tune" into the frequency of the particular object in order to "see" it, but you can "see" the same thing in infinite number of ways so anway... i think this is what most people mean by "resonance" in relation to eye sight, not the sight itself but the combination of another sense (this one being the one you can tune, usually changing the combination of sounds/words) with the sight to alter perception



It doesn't work, there are no frequencies to tune into. It is part of the image that you are *focusing* on.
Also there is no such thing as a "happy" or "sad" frequency, people do not vibrate. I'm sorry to break that to you. I can provide further explanation if you wish.

----------


## Keiju

happy or sad is a frequency in itself, not talking about vibrations or whatever, just using frequency to represent the infinite variations of sounds.. which are words, and so changing this frequency changes perception, the "focusing" is the tuning into a frequency, whatever your focusing on is a state of mind, the different states of mind... i like to use the word frequency to represent

the sight itself is not changing, it is always the same, only perception changes

like peoples idea of the universe/existence, it has/is/will always be the same, but peoples perception always changes it and so it also seems to change visually, change of frequency, my definitions/models anyway

this idea gives rise to the infinite possibility and "create your own universe" sort of thing, which is sort of true, but needs some sort of balance between objective and subjective

----------


## adam has a dream

It's not a frequency. A frequency is a measure of the number of times something happens over a specific period of time. Thus, no emotion is a frequency.

----------


## Keiju

hm whatever, i just defined what i meant by frequency, your definition makes no difference to my models, but at least we know what we both mean by frequency anyway

words only make sense within its own context, im sure you can see this, but yes you are correct frequency in its classical definition does not make sense in my post.... i never meant for it to though

----------


## adam has a dream

the problem is words need to mean the same thing for both parties in order for communication to work

----------


## adam has a dream

And within the context of that conversation, frequency had the pre-defined meaning that I explained to you.

----------


## Keiju

yes or we can define what we mean by them, 

like in maths we say x = ?, same with words

but i suppose this is the problem, noone is defining their words before use

but still...to say there are pre-defined meanings in words is a bit off, will make it very hard since the simplest of words are still subjective on a large scale,

rather you should of said, "what do you mean by frequency"  ::D:  , i think anyway

----------


## NaturalLight322

what this entire thread is about is the same as the movies night watch and day watch except for the fact that they need to go to sleep to enter the altered reality they can just enter it when ever...check it out its not bad at all its in Russian though and have awesome cgi.

----------


## lucid4sho

Could the people bickering about eyeballs please start their own thread  ::thanks::

----------


## adam has a dream

> Could the people bickering about eyeballs please start their own thread



How about the ones bickering about ignorance?  ::D:

----------


## lucid4sho

> How about the ones bickering about ignorance?



Anyone crowding the thread with unrelated topics  ::nono::

----------


## adam has a dream

Awesome  ::D: 
Sorry for being a smartass there, I was a little fed up with people talking shit...
Incidentally, do you have any ideas on the mechanism of dreamwalking?

----------


## lucid4sho

Not really. But from my observations the transference of vibes and emotions is something many people experience, and there is no scientific instrument which can measure this. Have you ever felt someones emotion without looking at or speaking with them? Or sensed someones intentions without any physical signs at all. It seems some form of currently undetectable energy is transfered between humans all the time. I think lots of people will attest to this. This energy could contain more information then we can normally perceive, maybe this his how genuine psychics function, they can translate more information out of the energy than most. Assuming these energies exist, theres a chance they are the same mechanisms that can connect people while they are dreaming. Who knows really, but thats my guess  ::content::

----------


## adam has a dream

I think I have  :smiley: 
It reminds me of pheremones - the natural scent of a person that we only detect subconsciously. These apparently make up part of our attraction to other people.
I would also go so far as to say entangled particles might play a role, seeing as a change in one particle causes an immediate change in the other, no matter what the distance. That would obviously be a good way to transmit information.

----------


## drummerof89

so the dreamwalkers, could they be able to help you to get better at becoming lucid? that would be so awesome & helpful! if thats possible, they are more than welcome to enter my dreams!!! :smiley:

----------


## Croneus

New studies suggest it's hard to retain memories from when you are very young because your brain hasn't learned to process and label everything yet and thusly is unable to identify and recall it as well as when you get older. Things you're with often, parents, your childhood blankey or teddy bear whatever, bring back memories better because of your time spent learning about them. The smells, touch, what they look like, sound like, taste.

----------


## Sandform

> New studies suggest it's hard to retain memories from when you are very young because your brain hasn't learned to process and label everything yet and thusly is unable to identify and recall it as well as when you get older. Things you're with often, parents, your childhood blankey or teddy bear whatever, bring back memories better because of your time spent learning about them. The smells, touch, what they look like, sound like, taste.



It may also be due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis .

In early childhood many kids have what some may call photographic memory, but it doesn't stay with them into adulthood because of apoptosis in the brain.

----------


## Croneus

> It may also be due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosis .
> 
> In early childhood many kids have what some may call photographic memory, but it doesn't stay with them into adulthood because of apoptosis in the brain.




Apoptosis doesn't affect brain cells in the same way. The nuerons form new synapses and are still able to access and replicate information by doing so. Typically apoptosis will only affect brain cells that are damaged by physical trauma, or by a virus or toxin in order to try to save healthy nuerons. Eventually old age too. I've never heard of children with eidetic/photographic memories losing it.

----------


## Sandform

> Apoptosis doesn't affect brain cells in the same way. The nuerons form new synapses and are still able to access and replicate information by doing so. Typically apoptosis will only affect brain cells that are damaged by physical trauma, or by a virus or toxin in order to try to save healthy nuerons. Eventually old age too. I've never heard of children with eidetic/photographic memories losing it.



I actually read it in a book called Mapping the Mind by Rita Carter.  I don't have the book anymore but some searching found me...The piece of link itself seems to actually be from Carter.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/SL_Psyc...etic_interplay


Neuroplasticity is the brain’s ability to create new neural pathways based on new experiences. It takes place over a lifetime, sometimes over genetically-determined critical periods. At birth, there are approximately 2,500 synapses in the cerebral cortex of a human baby.By three years old, the cerebral cortex has about 15,000 synapses (Gopnick et al., 1999). Because the infant brain has such a huge capacity for growth, it must eventually be pruned down. Synaptic pruning, or apoptosis, is the programmed neuron cell death that takes place during early childhood and adolescence. Pruning actually strengthens important connections and eliminates weaker ones, creating more effective neural communication (Brain Plasticity,2006). *Many times children lose their eidetic or photographic memory during apaptosis.* An incomplete pruning results in so-called idiot savantes while overkill apoptosis my strip too many connections and lead to Down’s syndrome (Carter, 1998).

----------


## JET73L

Erm, back to the nightstalkers/dreamwalkers thing, can anyone explain what exactly is going on with them? I read about 8 pages of this thread, but alkl I could really gather were that they were beings (typpiucally human) that sem to be able to "enter" others' dreams (some sort of telepathy?) and that the dreamwalkers are either good or neutral, the Night Stalkers are actively malicious,* and there are also watchers, (who may or may nopt be human, but by their name I assume theior prerogative does not include interfering in other's dreeams, but merely observing?).
If the answers to these questions can be found earlier in the thread, I could go back and read it, but if it's going to be as fruitless an effort as it seems, I figuresd I may as well ask here. First of all, is there any way to differentiate between a NS/DW and a regular dream character? If you regularly meet sentient-seeming dream characters who do not conform to any of your own dream styloes, are they likely dream walkers, or merely dream characters? Are these actively encountered beings, have people here actually had proven dreams where they encountered a DW/NS that they later met in real life and confirmed the dream encounter, or is this purely theoretical? This sort of thing seems to be important, and I wish to gather more information. FI anyone can answer these questions, or add anything odf importance I may have missed, thank you.



*as opposed to magically delicious. Sorry, but it was necessary to stop thinking of lucky the leprechaun saying lucky charms are actively malicious.

----------


## Croneus

Sorry to drag it off topic again but...

The first line of the summary says it all: "Today a brain scan reveals our thoughts, moods, and memories as clearly as an X-ray reveals our bones. We can actually observe a person's brain registering a joke or experiencing a painful memory." Uhm, no you can't. The fact she states that there are differences between a 'gay' and 'straight' brain are ridiculous. The quote you provided above also shows a huge pitfall. She suggests that incomplete pruning leads to savants, and too much leads to Downs Syndrome. Uhhh, sorry Miss Carter but Downs syndrome is a result of genetics that affect a number of things besides the brain itself. Savantism occurs mostly in children who have autistic defects (while the causes of autism are not currently known, researchers are checking for genetic defects). Calling them idiot savants is incredibly not PC as well. After searching around google, yahoo, and even altavista, I cannot find anything else that will back up where she says a child will lose their eidetic memory due to apoptosis. Also it looks like that particular nugget of information was from one of her earlier books (how can you back up a possible false claim without having someone else prove it besides yourself?) A lot of the reviews for the book, while praising its layout of information and ease to understand, several mention how she brings alot of personal bias towards various sociologial issues, makes signifigant leaps to conclusions and while well versed in the matter, makes grave mistakes on a number of topics. Sample reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R29WBFJ...cm_cr_rdp_perm

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1BBLDX...cm_cr_rdp_perm

Lastly, I'll let this article take apart the validity of much of her book.

http://human-brain.org/mapping.html

Being 8 years old much of what's said in there may have been believed to be true at the time, but is known now to be different.

(If people are getting annoyed by the derailing I have no problem creating a new discussion thread or continuing in private messages.)

----------


## The Cusp

> The first line of the summary says it all: "Today a brain scan reveals our thoughts, moods, and memories as clearly as an X-ray reveals our bones. We can actually observe a person's brain registering a joke or experiencing a painful memory."
> 
>  Uhm, no you can't.



Yes you can.

(from this article:  http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/...urrentPage=all)
"Yet academic researchers and medical entrepreneurs are already trying to sell brain scanning to both patients and corporate clients. Media giant Viacom (parent of MTV and Nickelodeon) paid a reported $200,000 to the British company Neurosense to help determine ad placement by scanning subjects as they watch different TV commercials."

----------


## Lois Lane

I've been trying to understand this whole NS/DW thing as well, and as far as I can tell, certain people need their dreams to be more interesting, and others need to feel they have special talents...

From what I've gathered... NS/DW are real people?  And if you piss them off in your daily interactions with them, either at work or on-line, they will teach you a big fat lesson by invading your dreams and throwing an Oogie Boogie on you...

And the DWs will defend you...?  

So the NSs are just bullies from what I can tell, knowing how easily dreams can be construed to mean anything, considering that dreams often reveal subconscious fears and anxieties... they're counting on your mind running away with you...

I don't know what my point is, except to say that people who feel the need to exert power over others that are naturally curious/ready to believe is the oldest trick in the book.  Every book I've ever read.

----------


## Croneus

> Yes you can.
> 
> (from this article:  http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/...urrentPage=all)
> "Yet academic researchers and medical entrepreneurs are already trying to sell brain scanning to both patients and corporate clients. Media giant Viacom (parent of MTV and Nickelodeon) paid a reported $200,000 to the British company Neurosense to help determine ad placement by scanning subjects as they watch different TV commercials."




Dude the article itself shoots down the whole theoy. Example

"He puts down his pen and turns to me. "I would love to see your brain healthier, because you'll be happier if it's healthier," he says. "It's too low in activity. I recommend a multivitamin, and to get better blood flow I would take gingko." Just before I leave, he advises me to lay off the snowboarding and play more tennis. "With the lowered activity in your cerebellum," he explains, "I'd like to see you do more coordination sports."

"There's a logical fallacy here." I am sitting at a conference table with a perfect view of the sun setting over West LA, talking to Robert Rubin, professor and vice chair of psychiatry at UCLA and one of Amen's chief critics.

My Spect scans are arrayed between us, and I have just recounted Amen's interpretation of my brain images.

Rubin, a noted researcher on brain functioning in depression, draws two circles on a sheet of paper. He points to the first and says, "Let's say this represents a bunch of people with low activity of the frontal lobe, and let's say, for the sake of argument, that many of them also have depression." Then he points to the second circle. "And here are all the people without depression. Do any of these people also have low frontal lobe activity? You bet they do. So there are people with depression who have this finding, and people without depression with this finding. How is the finding helpful?"

"Not too helpful," I say. "But Amen claims that studies have shown that low frontal lobe activity is associated with depression."

Rubin smiles while shaking his head. I can tell this is an argument he's heard before. "That's true, but the data is based on group averages. A typical study will image 10 people with depression and 10 people without depression. On average, you might find that the depressed group has lower frontal activity than the normal group. But there's a lot of variability, meaning some depressed people have normal scans and some healthy people have abnormal scans."

"Meaning ... you can't use the finding to make a diagnosis."

"Right." He looks back down at my scans, with all their dings and dents. "To determine the utility of these findings, you have to go to the critical next step, which is to come up with specific imaging criteria for depression, scan a large number of people, and then read the scans blindly  that is, without having met the patient. You can then determine the accuracy of your test. To my knowledge, nobody has done such studies for depression or for most any psychiatric disorder other than Alzheimer's disease."


and the very last bit of the entire article...

"Most neuromarketers are using these scans as a way of sprinkling glitter over their products, so that customers will be persuaded that the pictures are giving them a deeper understanding of their mind. In fact, imaging technologies are still in their infancy. And while overenthusiastic practitioners may try to leapfrog over the science, real progress, which will take decades, will be made by patient and methodical researchers, not by entrepreneurs looking to make a buck."


Nightstalkers are fakes.  :smiley:

----------


## Anon

I somehow managed to sit through this. I cannot help but put my two cents worth in that.. this is bullshit, close the thread and please start one about icecream. Or let the RPG you are trying to create here die.. GG and +1 strength!

----------


## Sandform

> Sorry to drag it off topic again but...
> 
> The first line of the summary says it all: "Today a brain scan reveals our thoughts, moods, and memories as clearly as an X-ray reveals our bones. We can actually observe a person's brain registering a joke or experiencing a painful memory." Uhm, no you can't. *The fact she states that there are differences between a 'gay' and 'straight' brain are ridiculous.* The quote you provided above also shows a huge pitfall. She suggests that incomplete pruning leads to savants, and too much leads to Downs Syndrome. Uhhh, sorry Miss Carter but Downs syndrome is a result of genetics that affect a number of things besides the brain itself. Savantism occurs mostly in children who have autistic defects (while the causes of autism are not currently known, researchers are checking for genetic defects). Calling them idiot savants is incredibly not PC as well. After searching around google, yahoo, and even altavista, I cannot find anything else that will back up where she says a child will lose their eidetic memory due to apoptosis. Also it looks like that particular nugget of information was from one of her earlier books (how can you back up a possible false claim without having someone else prove it besides yourself?) A lot of the reviews for the book, while praising its layout of information and ease to understand, several mention how she brings alot of personal bias towards various sociologial issues, makes signifigant leaps to conclusions and while well versed in the matter, makes grave mistakes on a number of topics. Sample reviews:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R29WBFJ...cm_cr_rdp_perm
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R1BBLDX...cm_cr_rdp_perm
> 
> Lastly, I'll let this article take apart the validity of much of her book.
> ...



First off I have no clue why that is really into this, all the person making the synopsis meant when she said this was that you can see areas of higher activity in the mind, this is what is known as brain mapping.  If you couldn't tell things by localizing differences during specific moments then we wouldn't know what pieces of the brain are good for what.  The point of the statement is that the mind is modular and they have proven it.

*No it isn't ridiculous, she was citing someone else's work in which he took the brains of a whole bunch of prisoners that were known gay or straight and viewed the differences in their brains.  He proposed that the areas that the brains (in a specific part which I can't recall) had in relation to the sex would be the same in homosexual men as that of women.  Any claims she made she wasn't making for herself, but making observations about another persons work.  She even made sure to note that the facts don't necessarily mean anything because many of the men died of AIDS.*


http://jcn.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/16/6/438 2001 This one states the various chemicals associated with *downs syndrome* and with apoptosis inhibotory chemicals.
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/...ll/127/12/2572 2004 This one states the various chemicals associated with *Autistic cases* and with reduction of inhibitory chemicals related to apoptosis.

Don't you think programmed cell death probably is determined by genetics...like down syndrome?

P.S. Sorry I can't provide more up to date links but I'm busy atm. 

The people who reviewed her book must not have realized that everything she said was based on inference from mostly other peoples work...and 
almost every time she said something she made it clear that what she was giving you a generalized view, and not a specific view.  The book was catering to those less familiar with the subject.  Many of them say she makes claims without reproducable experiments, because she speaks of only one, but what she is doing is telling you inferences from specific experiments, not necessarily saying it is college textbook information.  

When I was reading it and she brought about things that other people are saying she said as "fact" I was thinking of it as theory, since she provided the reasons why she thought what she thought.  Theory being in terms of a common persons word not a scientists.

I can't find anything about apoptosis and photographic memory either, however I have found various articles stating for a fact that some children do have eiditic memory and more often than not lose it.

----------


## The Cusp

> I somehow managed to sit through this. I cannot help but put my two cents worth in that.. this is bullshit, close the thread and please start one about icecream. Or let the RPG you are trying to create here die.. GG and +1 strength!



Somebody's wearing his cloak of skepticism +5!  Dream on, this thread will outlive all you skeptics.

----------


## Tyler

so..Cusp....
Still having trouble sleeping?

----------


## ubigcow

This thread is going way off topic. People posting about eyes and/or resononce and/or brainscans go to Physics of Dreamsharing. It is made for this discusion.

----------


## Tyler

well im going to bed....
im begging for a dreamwalker or dreamstalker to come visit my dreams.
Come on.

----------


## What??Me??

Still nobody in mine...... Come on people!!!!!!!! What part of I challenge you is not breaking through your tiny dreamwalking heads??!?!?! (Or dreamstalking heads...)

----------


## Hukif

Hm... I suppose that challenges should be done in 1 place... and I don't see how a dreamwalker/stalker would get were you live to stalk you <.<

----------


## JET73L

Ah, so, since this thread is starting to get back on track, does anyone have any answers for my questions (13 posts earlier) or Lois Lane (10 posts earlier)?

----------


## WaterSquirrel

It is possible that through evolution our brains have harnessed the power of dark energy. This would then explain all inter-human psychic phenomena such as dream sharing and telepathy.

Has anyone ever thought about it this way before?

----------


## Lois Lane

> It is possible that through evolution our brains have harnessed the power of dark energy. This would then explain all inter-human psychic phenomena such as dream sharing and telepathy.
> 
> Has anyone ever thought about it this way before?



Hmmm... I would think the the evolutioin of our minds, not the brain exactly.

I'll have to read that again more slowly.

----------


## memeticverb

> It is possible that through evolution our brains have harnessed the power of dark energy. This would then explain all inter-human psychic phenomena such as dream sharing and telepathy.
> 
> Has anyone ever thought about it this way before?



Yes, and you should post your extended thoughts in the thread on the possible physical explanations of telepathy and dream sharing.  I think something close to what you have said is probably true since dark energy is a precondition for the preconditions for life and therefore is connected to us and through us.  In m-theory I think this explained in terms of "the bulk" which is a multidimensional field in which two 3-space fields collided to form what only appears to us as 3-dimensions, but is really 10, 11+ dimensions. 

As for dream walkers etc, I cant rule out the possibility that they are "real", but there are some inconsistencies with how they are being approached here.  They are probably, as already mentioned, manifestations of our subconscious.

But this leads right back the the problem of why do so many people "share" the same archetypes for these encounters? 

In my experience I've had reoccurring  lucid dream characters exactly like dream stalkers (wearing all black with black top hats and slender metallic weapons) as well as an old lady who was a ghost and who shook my entire dream world.  I also had a reoccurring lucid dream character who was a short fat bald goblin-type who was out to get me.   In each case except the old lady I was able to defeat the attackers by encompassing them in a force field which i then reduced to the size of a speck of dust.  never fails!

My questions are whether the others who have experienced these types of DCs are lucid when they encounter them, and what scenarios they were in when they appeared to them?

----------


## ChaybaChayba

> Basic rundown on how the human eye works.
> 
> Actually, nothing in your eye resonates.



We completely agree, the only reason why you think we don't, is because you do not understand what resonance is. I can make your eye resonate with sound waves, claiming nothing in your eye resonates is just trying to say B when I say A..




> It is possible that through evolution our brains have harnessed the power of dark energy. This would then explain all inter-human psychic phenomena such as dream sharing and telepathy.
> 
> Has anyone ever thought about it this way before?



I think some scientists already discovered this dark energy (never heard of the term dark energy myself) but, I assume it's the same as orgon energy, or the aether? I don't really believe such a thing as "vacuum" exists, how can "nothing" exist? I think this vacuum lots of people, including science, talk about is actually just another form of energy.. So yeah, I also thought about that, and I read this really elaborated article about this energy and astral projections.. google for Robert Bruce. Anyway, almost all cultures through history over the whole world have talked about this energy, there must be something to it.

----------


## ubigcow

This post has four parts. They are seperated by  ::microwave:: 's.


I put together other's stories from this thread. I have not had a dreamsharing experiance. (If I had, I would believe in it.) This is all I found, but I skimmed pretty fast.



*Spoiler* for _delpiero_: 







> If I would let my subconscious speak I would tell you that this old lady also gave me trouble last night.
> 
> Actually thats how I ended up on these forums. 
> 
> I was on a mission when I got undercovered by 2 girls. Because of 2 words that I clearly remember "Yvette, Duette". I was somewhere around Prague downtown (or another east European metropole). And when I got undercover I started to chase the 2 girls but some hobos came to me and started to threat me. So while they were blocking my way the 2 girls were able to get away, and then all of a sudden a Police SWAT team of around 40 men or more came out from one street, they blitzed in the crowd and jumped on me.
> 
> They then brought me back in some parking lot where they threw me on the floor and started to kick me hard, like 5 big guys with huge boots hitting my skull and crushing my bones. I knew it was just a dream but still I felt pain, shame, as if it would happen for real. 
> 
> I did not know what was going on as I thought the SWAT team would be on my side, so I was confused, as if my team let me down. Then I discovered that a old lady order it, and the 2 girls where working for that old lady.
> ...







*Spoiler* for _delpiero_: 







> me it really is the "Old Lady" part that caught my attention. She's obviously a power figure, and I never heard of a Old Lady before.
> 
> As for my dream with the SWAT it's actually in Germany where the German police stopped a US secret operation during the G8 protest.
> 
> Protestants are the hobos I saw and the 2 girls. SWAT team was the German police, so now is to know why behind the protestant there is that old lady. And why the German Police is related to her as well...
> 
> Or it could also be that in the protestant German Police had infiltrators... 
> 
> Mind you , dream stalker might exist, but their probably just rebel and random org that just fool around. 
> ...







*Spoiler* for _Lex16_: 







> I missed quite a bit it would seem.
> 
> Apologies: Several I suppose...Skysaw for one. I got pissed when I saw your post, you'll have to forgive me on that. Or not, what ever pleases you.
> I think you were the one I insulted the most here.
> Mental problems? Does Berserk count as a mental illness? If it does then yeah, I got a problem.
> 
> Anyway! back to Q amd A:
> 
> What D.W's do? 
> ...







*Spoiler* for _Sanzora_: 







> NP Sis ^_^ How do you think I felt? \o/
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, that story 
> 
> So it happened just about when I was getting into lucid dreaming... I was about 6 months down the road with the whole thing and had really only had a few Lucid dreams before it happened. But I did recognise one of the DCs in my dream as someone who was helping me, and At this particular time I hadn't seen him in a while. I didn't know his name.
> 
> Jump back to a few years before, when I was 16, I had gotten into the idea of possibly writing a fictional book based on Lucid Dreamers who could walk into people's dreams. They were known as Dream Walkers. I never got round to writing the book, but I established some of the characters. One of the main Characters was a guy named M(for the purposes of not exposing him cos he's actually not a bad guy ) This given, I decided that I was going to name my helpful DC 'M', after the character in my book. 
> ...







*Spoiler* for _anomanderis_: 







> It seems that my request was answered by a Night Stalker, but I will leave it up to you to decide:
> 
> I am in the forest with my friend and we are running away from a beast – a bear. It is wintertime and we are cold. (Reference to the movie with Hopkins and Baldwin). For some reason, my friend is in a red plastic suit - that of Iron Man. His body is stuck in the ice with only his head floating in a pool of shallow water. If he relaxes, his helmet will sink and thus he will drown. The only opening in his helmet is a short horizontal slit situated where his mouth should be.  I wake up to find him struggling with keeping his head above the water and quickly help him by holding his helmet up. His mouth seems weird to me – it is as if his mouth is filled by a bleached-yellow ball, indeed it seems as though the sphere is a natural part of him. I realize that he must’ve struggled all night and didn’t get to sleep. He might be a bit angry at me. Now I am reminded of the beast and looking around our position, I see 2 smaller fire places quite near us – I quickly run to them and find that the small bag of fried potatoes there is still warm. I shout with all my strength,”HEI!” and soon I am answered by a small group of children running from the forest. Accompaning them are blck government rescue vehicles and a chopper.  I am elated, since I think we have been rescued, but then i see it – a black figure in the distance moving towards the camp where my friend is. The monster walks as if he has a limp, or maybe even a crutch, but it is a monster with the body of a man and from the neck up it has the „head” of a black serpent about 1m long.  Frantically I run to help my friend, but only get there by the next morning. On the road covered with snow I see some woman’s bloody cut off breasts and further on the severed head of my friend lying in the snow. In my head a picture flashes – the monster feasting on my friend. He is eating him behind a table and the different parts are placed on trays of gleaming gold and silver. I hear a voice in my head, but also in my ear (this was the „realest” voice i’ve heard in dreams except mine. I could actually _hear_ it like I was awake. I do not remember this happening before, since before, the sounds in my dreams have been mostly telepathic). It is a male voice with a touch of female in it too and it grates softly, like flowing sand, but in that voice I can feel the most horrible realization – he took enormous pleasure from killing my friend and he is intelligent. Never before in my dreams have monsters been anything but beasts, but behind that voice I could sense the sick malevolent mind of a human. I sense his presence behind me and turn around to face it. At this point I start waking up and realizing that this is a dream, i try blasting it with telekinetic force, but it is too late – I am already awake. 
> Why I think it was a NS and not a usual DC:
> 
> 1) Monsters have never been "intelligent" in my dreams and have never talked to me.
> 2) I could sense that he was different from my DCs. Especially his voice - it was way too malevolent to be my creation. When it talked to me, I could sense a hidden threat and amusement in his words ( sadly, i don't recall the words themselves, since after waking up i concentrated on remembering the meaning behind them). It was a challenge of sorts - to see if i was actually worthy of its time.
> 3) Time distortion - c'mon, it was like 100m away and i arrived there the next day? Don't think so. 
> 4) sick, twisted sense of humor - he _ate_ Anthony Hopkins. he ate Hannibal, ffs!







*Spoiler* for _anomanderis_: 







> The thing is - what if you are wrong, Caradon and nzguy ? What if people can enter other people's dreams? If they could, then who would wield more power - the dreamer? Aren't they both dreaming, then? We don't know whether dreams have a "universal matrix" to which they connect to, in essence connecting every dreamer in the world/universe, or are they only in your head? Are they in your head or are all dreams of all dreamers in the same "place", just at different wavelengths? 
> 
> I've been sleeping very deeply. Too deeply, matter of fact, since for the last 3-4 days i've woken up 6 hours after going to sleep, which is a bummer, since it inhibits recall. 
> This morning i wasn't visited by a NS, but rather had a possible DW/Dream guide experience:
> 
> I was with my bro in my parents' bedroom and it was pretty early in the morning, 'bout 6:24, i think. With us there was a man, a storyteller, who was telling me and my bro a story of how contemporary writers use ambiguous and innocent-looking titles to hide the knowledge of astral travel (i think it was astral travel, but can't be sure. It had _something_ to do with altered states of consciousness). He brought us an example, where a book's title had been The Visiting ( The Visit, or smth the like).
> Now he proceeded to tell us about a 10-day "training program" that would let us learn this state and my brother lay on the bed, face first, ready to receive the teachings. The storyteller proceeded to speak that the first step was proper digestion. I on the other hand was much more concerned with going to school. I jumped out onto the balcony for a quick breath of the damp cool early-morning air.
> Now I am lying on my bed, face first, and as my awareness passes over my brow chakra, i decide to give it a little spin (clockwise, or counterclockwise to an external observer). Immediately, the energy centre bursts aflame - my stimulation causes the the third eye to burn with energy and i remember thinking that maybe finally my brow chakra was going to strobe. The more I used tactile imaging to imagine a clockwise movement of the energy vortex, the more it started burning. It was actually quite painful and i thought that i should go and ask the storyteller for his advice whether to continue the stimulation or leave it be.
> 
> ...







*Spoiler* for _AHiddenSaint_: 







> I believe I might have been attacked just a little while ago. If it was someone who attacked me in a dream I do not think they are happy by the results. 
> 
> It all started when was in the car with my mother. A group of 3 people tried to attack us. At this point my God Defense started to kick in because I started to use lightning attacks from clouds in order to attack the people who were attacking me. The attack seemed to be over at that time. 
> 
> 
> Some how they later within the dream kidnapped a family member. I was able to find the family member by pulling up a display screen not attached to anything that mapped her location and my location. My dream self used this map to guide me to a older building. 
> 
> There was a relationship between me and the dream world. Basically the more my anger and rage developed the dreamscape itself started to turn violent. Dark Clouds and the feeling that the dreamscape itself would tear apart if I didn't calm down happen. 
> 
> ...







*Spoiler* for _Nazzul_: 







> Well I just awoke up from a very exciting dream...was it from a dreamwalker? Or maybe it was a Night stalker hunter, they didnt say. I was in an abandond city the buildings around me were made out of stone or some sort of clay material. I relized something was wrong when my flying was becoming harder to control. As I turned around  Isaw two of them ( in retrospec Im thinking they were hunters by the way they lookied plain clothing with a very plain and they looked like males) The two came at me with frightning speed and one was able to hit me to one of the very tall buildings. 
> 
> They werent normal dream characters at least ones ive never experinced before they seemed to be able to lightly affect things about me with the difficulty in flying usually I am a very good flyer. Anyway when I hit the building one of them started to unsolidify the building and create it into quick sand. I was able to push away just in time as one of the hunters came rushing forward hitting the building instead of me I guess they werent as good as controling the enviroment  as I was since when the hunters friend hit the building he was quickly sucked in and dissapeard inside....1 down 1 to go. We both flew at each other ready to attack and started a grapple. 
> 
> At first he tried to break the dream perhaps as an escape but I was able to keep my concentration and I finnialy had him where I wanted him. In my past dreams I used a shadow arm to consume my opponets but this time it was a bit diffrent. This time I created a shadow that was not like one I have ever seen before it was not a shadow made of air but of luiquid that engulfed him slowley. It was just as effective though if not a bit sticky.







*Spoiler* for _AHiddenSaint_: 







> Had a weird dream last night that could have been a Night Stalker. I do not remember fully how I got captured or why I was at this location, but in the dream I was captured. A Middle age male white can't remember to much detail other then that Had me in a chamber strapped down to a table.
> 
> He kept asking me what I knew and tried to implant something to erease or block knowledge of a group. At this point the dream went blank or my view shifted. I didn't feel myself inside my body, but instead felt myself trapped in almost a machine like view looking outside. The same person was there only this time He was operating on a body. The body itself was my own and my chest on down to my stomach areas were exposed with him messing with my body parts and laughing. 
> 
> At that point I remember screaming out as this person that felt different from a normal dream character kept laughing. It could have been just a bad nightmare, but it felt different. I felt like I was being questioned for information which I know I never told, but they seemed to have ways to get information without telling. Whatever it was they didn't want me to know something or was afraid of what I knew. Even though there was torment and torture on my part I felt they were more afraid of me then anything else.







*Spoiler* for _AHiddenSaint_: 







> Do not know if this was a regular dream or someone entered my dream, however, I thought I would post what happen about 2 to 4 hours ago. Yes I was asleep at this time I just woke up around 2pm. Well I was having a dream about the military which was weird. It was basically going through classes and training type stuff. 
> 
> Half way through the training part we were all in a room and then it started to get a little bit freaky. Scorpion type bugs that were larger then normal ones were appearing in the room out of no where. I had felt something crawling up my back on the spine area, but nothing was there. Someone was in the dream laughing at what was happening to me and others. When I went to talk to the person they got angry. At one point they turned into a stream of small black dust that tried to swarm me, but I was using some move to push them back. 
> 
> I do not know if it was this time that I woke up, but this dream lasted through two dream cycles. When I orginally woke up to use the bathroom I was brought back within the dream. At this point they were about to shave people's head. My dream self really didn't want that to happen for some reason so tried to escape. The weirdest way escaped was created a tornado and traveled through it although I was still on this complex. 
> 
> Here is the oddest part THE SAME PERSON FROM BEFORE THAT WAS LAUGHING AT ME WAS THERE AGAIN. He was pissed that he couldn't find me. It almost seemed like he had a lock on me because each move I tried to make in order to escape the person seemed to copy only one move behind. This person was screaming. I did escape by waking back up. 
> 
> After again using the bathroom and coming back. I decided to push myself on sleep even though I really didn't feel I needed to sleep anymore or was tired I forced myself to sleep just to try to see if could go to that same dream again. The ironic thing is I was able to so that makes it 3 different dream cycles entering the SAME DREAM landscape only this time I seemed to be the one in control. 
> ...




*Spoiler* for _AHiddenSaint_: 







> just to add a note yes that was about 15 hours of sleep for one night.










*Spoiler* for _anomanderis_: 







> After a long hiatus, i had another interesting encounter with someone. Don't know if this was a dream character, but if it was, then i made it awfully powerful.
> 
> This was a lucid dream. I'll leave the beginning out, where i had some fun with a light saber and kaleidoscopic flame - 
> 
> Now I decide to fly so I jump through the wall of my room and am accelerating upwards, when I see that above the building it gets really bright. So I make a 180 and lets myself fall. I fall through the ground into darkness. It feels really good to fall. After a while I slow and settle on what seems like the ocean floor. It has some sparse  and small vegetation. The seabed is covered with rough sand. Visibility is about 10m, but everything is quite dim.
> Then something weird happens. I sense a presence approaching fast. I do not like this. It is a presence even darker than darkness. It moves around me and then takes hold of my right hand, attaching itself to me. It laughed with this really evil laugh. Not the lame one you hear in movies, but truly evil. It was enjoying making me feel uncomfortable. I do not like this.
> While that was happening, I didn’t feel fear at all. I knew that I was invincible, but the first effort to rid myself of this presence failed. I think I just kinda tried to force push it away from  me, but at this point  the presence had already kinda melted into my  hand and shoulder. 
> I woke up and, just in case, I did auric cleansing.







*Spoiler* for _L_: 







> Seriously, every time im Lucid..... i keep on getting attacked by some Intelligent force, I saw it like FBI or Secret service.
> 
> AT some point in todays dream, i managed to access someones dream but certainly i couldn't control it as i do in my dreams. 
> 
> What happened was : 
> This women who i never saw before came to my house and asked me to help her out, she looked so frightened and scared that i couldn't resist on helping her.
> SO she started to talk, i gave her some tea and some food ..... 
> 
> After she finished eating, she started to talk about secret society's and other "strange phenomenon", for some reason i felt that my mission was to calm her down.. and tell her to forget everything she knows thus it might kill her one day.
> ...







*Spoiler* for _Xinro_: 







> Who knows, it could be possible.  I believe I met someone recently in a dream - it just had that feeling of being more than a dream, that strange quality some of you probably know.  Very strange...  I'll give the short(er) version: I injured my back in awake time a few weeks ago, and it hasn't healed since, even with my trying to reiki it.  In my dream, I went to the house of this woman I had never met before.  She had this strange gold light around her, and she was older.  I went over and sat in front of her, and she put her hands on me and it felt like she was trying to heal me, and I could actually feel the energy flowing through, the same energy I get when I'm having reiki done by someone else.  After she took her hands away, I felt really sleepy and fell over on the floor.  I got that feeling I have before going out of my body and in my dream left my body and flew around, partially lucid, before landing and greying out.
> 
> It could be just me, but that was more than a dream.  I felt like I knew the woman, like she was someone familliar and kind.  Actually, she felt a little like my Reiki master, now that I think about it...  My back still isn't fully healed, but it's getting better now.







*Spoiler* for _themuffinman_: 







> OH god... Im not saying that i believe yet ( i still want to believe) but this is just freaky.
> 
> i will post my dream from last night.
> 
> Cyan is normal dream
> Magenta is vivid part
> Green is dream related notes
> Black is non dream related notes
> 
> ...







*Spoiler* for _Aryaxon_: 







> In the dream it was night (nothing odd about that ). I became lucid at some point while walking about a forrest so i decided to "sence" around me to see if anything was there. After a while of peacefull nothing everything suddenly changed in some small yet definat way, the air around me "changed" as if it was being infested by fear. At this i got up and ran (naturaly ) all the while the fear in the air was increasing in rappid waves, as it got powerfuly strong i could feel it hitting me like hundreds of ripples each one building up fear inside me. Just as i thought i was going to go insane from the builtup fear inside me i emerged out from the forrest, ran a little further, then stoped and turned around. At this point i could feel that the waves were originating from an entity deep in the forrest and that by sencing it i discovered that for some strange reason it was me!. At this revelation it rushed forwards at me causing the waves to smash into me like a blast of air. I quickly woke myself up overcome with fear.
> 
> Its my belief that i had encounted my fear incarnate.
> 
> As for the possibility of saying it was a night stalker, when i senced it it was for example like when you look into a mirror you see yourself only with this being i could feel that it was part of me.







*Spoiler* for _mathieu_: 







> a couple months ago i had a ld about fighting with this older man. he was dressed as someone out of the 1930s, with his hat pulled low covering his eyes. i tried everything to hurt him like, when trying to punch him i transformed my arms into snakes, but as they went to strike him he transformed his arms into some kind of sword. and slid them into the snakes mouths and ripped them open. then they kinda exsploded into ash. then he started laughing at me exsplaing he has been hear alot longer then me, an knew all the tricks. i tried energy beams and even this weird thing where i ball up dirt in my hands and it turns into the steel balls i can throw so fast they turn white hot. he just caught them in his hands and blew on them then they just turned to ash? was this a nightstalker? i ended waking myself up, brcause ive never ran into someone in my LDs i couldnt hurt.







*Spoiler* for _Sativa_: 







> Now I am not sure if this post is related to night stalkers but I was reading these posts and see multiple ones mentioning an old lady. Gets me very curious as I experienced something a month ago that kinda made my life upside down. Maybe a coincidence but it have left me terrified.
> 
> Last years I am beginning to experience sleeping paralysis, I go to bed, fall asleep but shortly wakes up totally paralyzed but seem to be aware. This follows by some weird hallucinations,  as someone is there in the room, often pushing me down and some times I have not been able to breathe as if being choked. 
> 
> About 3 times ago, I had a very strong LOUD screaming sound in my ears but I was on my stumach and could not move or see the room. Second last time, that made me some what traumatized I saw an old lady. This time I was still quite wide awake as it first started to go paralyzed, and I was able to stop it before it feels too dissolving (like every atom in the body wanna go opposite direction) by tighten my muscles all I have and try to scream. I laid there thinking as it appeared again within a few minutes while I was still awake. I then managed to snap out of it just before it started to paralyze me completely and I was laying there even more confused. Somehow I started thinking about death and immediately when I thought the word  I was instantly paralyzed followed by the vision of an old lady, ripping her nails against me screaming with this horrible voice that she will do everything to destroy me. The structure in her face was not of aged skin but more as the skin was paled off showing the muscular structure. I have never felt so threatened and terrified before and that kinda made me stuck in a panic state which I am still suffering from in my waking time. I just felt a weird feeling,when I read about this old lady and would love to know more. And if you have any more information/experiences about sleep paralyses Id like to know/talk more about it, send me a IM? 
> 
> (Just want to mention also that I had another paralysis this night which was not as terrifying, kinda made me enlightened in a way. It just did not want to go away, I moved position in bed I tightened my muscles I screamed but it kept coming back instantly so in the end, very tired as I was i just gave up, laid on stumach and just tried to relax. It came back but this time I felt as I started to levitate in my bed about 1-2dm above it. I have never felt such a feeling of freedom before) I am so curious what is happening to me, I am so confused 
> 
> Thanks for your time ^^







*Spoiler* for _anon1776_: 







> alright heres a dream I had, I'm unsure if this is what your talking about, it might be it might be not, its one of those dreams i've had that i've wanted to resolve for a long time but never have.
> 
> *dream*
> I'm on some sort of rail train that is elevated off the ground as it pulls into a platform, it seems old and rusty, but still relativly high tech.  It is going somewhere.  We arrive on this sort of... I would describe it as a plane.  But only in the manner that it seemed to extend around flat, with grass and what not but there didn't seem to be anything in the distance, almost liek a floating island.  On that island was this old Japanese dojo type thing.  Some of the people on the train got off onto this plane and we began to attend this class inside the dojo.  In the dojo was this entity--just eminating coldness and hatred and anger-- just thinking about it, as i'm typing now gives me a tingly feeling.  The entitty came up to me, paralyzed in fear, and touched me in the chest.  it was so cold and just plain *evil*, i cant think of another word to describe it me and this entity began entered into combat, it chased me around away from the dojo, i remember the raw fear of being chased. I don't remember after that but I think at that time woke up from this dream.  what do you think?
> 
> \\the "entity" i can only describe as being slim, greyish, almost seemingly made out of old grey tattered cloth wrapped around a person.







*Spoiler* for _dorpis_: 







> Okay, I've had dreams with the dream (or whatever) character in it alot. He's a pediphile.
> 
> It usually starts off with me walking home with a friend. As my friend goes to his house, I continue. The area was sort of like a factory, but outside. It was lined with these strange machines (which I find cool). As I turned around (a habit of mine when I walk) I see this man, in my dreams, his face is usually covered by hair or a hood, or because he's too far to see. Anyways, I could tell he was really far. So I did the smart thing, I continued to walk, and when I made a curve, I ran for my life! But when I turn around awhile later, I see him, he was even closer now! I could tell that he was smiling, as if amused by my efforts. As this all happened, this feeling of fear creeped in me. He was evil. Other times, I'm walking home at night (that was this dream) other times I'm walking in a crowded place. But these dreams always occur in similar places, such as this very high tech school, or this kind of strange town that looked to be from the 1940's or something. And the man was a clown one time, I believe. Also, while talking normally with my friend, I feel safe and cool. But as my friend leaves, I start to feel nervous...







*Spoiler* for _spitfire riggz_: 







> well i truly dont think this is one. but give it a try. last night i had this really vivid dream where im at a skatepark, but the skatepark turns out to be real crappy so i keep walking. after the park, there are these sort of stairs, the place is half parking lot/skatepark half kinda movie theater, with a red capet. anyways, so im up on these stairs, and i drop a dollar (hahah) down the edge of the story. this security guard picks it up and for some reason i reach with all my heart to try to get it. he looks at me and his face kinda turns into a clown. but i go down the stairs and proceed to chase him, but he easily gets away. he starts super jumping and i get a wierd feeling







*Spoiler* for _anomanderis_: 







> This morning I had my second possible NS encounter a few dreams after I had been fully lucid so I was fairly semi-lucid during the time.
> A guy had broken a glass candle casing of an Orthodox church and was being punished by a Russian clergyman in the little shack next to the church. I assumed that he would only get his ass severely striped, but when he came out his face was completely pale and had eyes as that of a dead fish.
> I went to the clergyman and asked if he realized how evil his actions really were.
> Suddenly he towered above me, his face contorted in a carnivorous smile. The abrupt and powerful sense of total evil he emitted threw me off balance and I felt slight fear as I took a few steps back.
> He pulled me towards him with Force pull and then pushed me away before I could retaliate. By this time my mind had already executed emergency dream exit procedures.
> If this really was my second NS encounter, then this was also the second time I was caught by surprise. By the time I had mustered myself for a counterattack, the fear (even if it wasn't that great) had given him control over me.
> I considered him to be a NS, because he felt intrinsically the same (EVIL!) as the "person" from the first encounter.
> 
> Of course, here the fact that I asked him how evil he was, could've transformed the DC of a clergyman into an evil NS. Possible...








 ::microwave:: 





> Yes, and you should post your extended thoughts in the thread on the possible physical explanations of telepathy and dream sharing.



Thank you. That thread has been posted on by someone who also posted here, but he just spammed about it not being needed and me getting up my post count. It has not been posted on on topic by anyone except me. And for a while (until I saw ChaybaChayba's post) it didn't matter because the spamming on this thread had stopped.

 ::microwave:: 

 :Mad: ChaybaChayba, You posted here about the science of dreamsharing *AGAIN*. After I posted a link to and instructions to post on Physics of Dreamsharing, *and* I PMed you specifically telling you not to. :Mad:  As you seem to have a short memory span, here's your post.

*Spoiler* for _Your post_: 







> We completely agree, the only reason why you think we don't, is because you do not understand what resonance is. I can make your eye resonate with sound waves, claiming nothing in your eye resonates is just trying to say B when I say A..
> 
> I think some scientists already discovered this dark energy (never heard of the term dark energy myself) but, I assume it's the same as orgon energy, or the aether? I don't really believe such a thing as "vacuum" exists, how can "nothing" exist? I think this vacuum lots of people, including science, talk about is actually just another form of energy.. So yeah, I also thought about that, and I read this really elaborated article about this energy and astral projections.. google for Robert Bruce. Anyway, almost all cultures through history over the whole world have talked about this energy, there must be something to it.







I PMed everyone you were talking to about the same thread, so they should see it and reply to it on that thread. (Unlike you, you useless bent spoon.)

 ::microwave:: 





> Thank you for posting on the other thread.
> 
> I didn't post about the science of dream sharing, I posted about the science of the eye! And maybe I just didn't read your PM yet, ever thought about that? No need to get all emotional! I'll go read it right now



ChaybaChayba, I thought you would have read the post on this thread. The PM was sent so that, if you meant to reply to someone's post that was posted before mine but hadn't gotten around to it, you would do it on the other thread. Obviously, you just skipped my post and read WaterSquirrel's post. If your not even reading this thread, don't share your opinion. The reason I didn't specifically chew him out is because he got to the thread after I had posted it. (I think. I don't recall him being on here before. I'm sure he hasn't been posting about the science of the eye or other parts of the science of dreamsharing.)

And about this not being the science of dreamsharing: If you're just talking about the science of the eye, your way off topic.

Again, Thank you for posting on the other thread.

----------


## ChaybaChayba

I didn't post about the science of dream sharing, I posted about the science of the eye! And maybe I just didn't read your PM yet, ever thought about that? No need to get all emotional! I'll go read it right now

----------


## JET73L

Since I still haven;t recieved answers, and the thread's been off topic long enough that my original post isn;t noticed, I'm re-posting the unanswered questions (to do with the original subjects of Nightstalkers/Dream walkers, NOT about eyes or brain scans):
1.is there any way to differentiate between a NS/DW and a regular dream character?
2.If you regularly meet sentient-seeming dream characters who do not conform to any of your own dream styloes, are they likely dream walkers, or merely dream characters?
3.Are these actively encountered beings, have people here actually had proven dreams where they encountered a DW/NS that they later met in real life and confirmed the dream encounter, or is this purely theoretical, based on occurences in dreams unproven IRL?

----------


## ubigcow

Sorry, I was going to post this before, but I was making another thread. (Basically, I forgot.)

Read the fourth story (by Sanzora) and the fourteenth (by themuffinman) in my post above to help answer your third question and the fifth story (by anomanderis) and the sixth story (by anomanderis) to help answer your first question.





> Ok, this thread has been sucking lately, so lets try something new. 
> 
> *You post any dreams you think might be NS encounters in as much detail as possible here, and I'll tell you if it was just a regular dream or really a Night Stalker.*



After this post, some people wrote their dreams on the forum and he, using criteria that is unknown to me, said whether they were probably shared dreams or not. He may rate yours if you post them here. You could still look at the ones he rated and compare them to yours.

I don't know much about shared dreaming, so I just direct you to the people who do. The answer to your first question is probably "yes" :boogie: . (I know, you want to know how: I have no idea. I might look back through the thread and see what other people have said.) I have no idea about your second question. labmonkeywork has posted about reoccuring shared dreams, however, so you can search for posts by him on this thread to find other stuff to compare your dreams to. And your third question: people claim to have proven dream sharing. No one has convinced science as a whole that dreamsharing is possible, but they have convinced sections of the scientific community. Basically, if you believe them, ya; if you don't believe them, no.

----------


## The Cusp

I've tried explaining my unknown criteria before, but nobody seems to be getting it.  So let me try again...

People are right when they say NS can't hurt you since it's your dream, but what they can do is use you dream against you.

Say we met in a dream and I attacked you from behind with a sword which you didn't see.  It likely wouldn't have much effect.  Even just as straight up attack that you did see coming probably wouldn't do much.

But if I yelled to you to get your attention, then used that same sword to cleave some giant rocks or smash some buildings in a dramatic display, I could implant the suggestion into your dream that my sword is indeed powerful.  At this point it becomes part of _your_ dream, and now has power over you.  Perhaps I would hack a few helpless DCs and lick their blood from the sword to further reinforce the idea in your mind.

That type of behavior is characteristic of NS, and they find creative ways to use it.  Maneuvers like that are their main weapon, and actual attacks are much less important.  Normal DCs don't have that kind of mastery.

----------


## anomanderis

> Since I still haven;t recieved answers, and the thread's been off topic long enough that my original post isn;t noticed, I'm re-posting the unanswered questions (to do with the original subjects of Nightstalkers/Dream walkers, NOT about eyes or brain scans):
> 1.is there any way to differentiate between a NS/DW and a regular dream character?
> 2.If you regularly meet sentient-seeming dream characters who do not conform to any of your own dream styloes, are they likely dream walkers, or merely dream characters?
> 3.Are these actively encountered beings, have people here actually had proven dreams where they encountered a DW/NS that they later met in real life and confirmed the dream encounter, or is this purely theoretical, based on occurences in dreams unproven IRL?



1) The Cusp's post above + I believe that with experience one will come to _sense_ the difference instinctively. Sort of like becoming lucid: I rarely use RCs, since the most important thing for me is to sense the difference on a "deeper" level.
2) If you met them regularly then I would see no reason for them to be other individuals, unless you are some nexus for dream travelers  ::D: . But that would also be entirely dependant on whether you are trying to (consciously or subconsciously) attract such traffic or not.
[btw, I seriously think that no NS would ever deign to answer a "request"
in this thread). I would rather believe (and do) that the expectancy to meet one would either create a DC who seems like a NS or through the workings of the law of attraction (I know it sounds lame and its mostly The Secret's fault, but the concept itself is in my experience true) a NS happens into your dream.]
3) I've had 4 encounters that I would deem possible, the first being the most probable. I would also assume that since there wouldn't logically be many NS/DW around, they would be hard to find or meet if there is no force to compel a meeting. 
And I seriously doubt whether any NS would be interested in meeting anyone outside of the dream sphere. They have no great power there, neither do i think would they be of a personality inclined towards such a rendezvous.

(And although I rooted for Kira every step of the way, your avatar is cool)

----------


## ForgottenDream

i just want to challenge any NS out there. *IF* there are then prove it to me tonight! maybe this isn't the best way to become lucid lol, but i believe i can take any of you stupid enough to enter my dreams. i don't really believe in this btw although i think it's an interesting read. so prove it, and bring it on!!!  :Boxing:

----------


## JET73L

1. So, there is no known way to definitively differentiate between DCs and NS/DWs, though with experience one may be able to tell the difference.
2. I meant multiple times, not consistently. That was an error in my phrasing. But, basically, it is unlikely one would meet several different NS/DWs unintentionally, unless one happened to be aa sort of nexus for such beings?
3. I'm currently in a slightly more cynical mood than usual (by baseline cynicism being one of the reasons I made the avatar, thanks anomanderis), so I can;t bring myself to assume that even one of you is telling the truth, but if you are, _which is not an impossible, or even, based on other evidence, improbable,_ event, then the occurence of shared dreams, and thus people who can share dreams and convince themselves that they are Night stalkers or dream walkers, can and most likely do exist.

SO, thank you, this has been interesting. I hope I can learn more about this and other phenomenae by joining in conversations on this thread and forum.

Edit: PS: At any night stalkers out there: I would appreciate if you did not attempt to "fight me in a dream," I'm not stupuid enough to challenge someone that weiother doesn;t exist or can challenge me at any time on his "home turf," though I would appreciate if any dream walkers theoretically happened to decide that their good deed for the day would be to assist me in my efforts to better understand or utilize lucid dreams.

----------


## The Cusp

If you want to know if something in you dream is NS while you are lucid, you could always try Castaneda's energy seeing in dreams trick.

The theory is that everything that is real has some sort of energy to it.  Dream elements, being not real, have no energy behind them.  So by trying to see something or someone's energy, you should at least be able to tell if it just a dream or something else.

In the books he suggests pointing your little finger at your target and declaring your intent to see it's energy as the proper method to achieve this goal.

I've tried it several time and have yet to see energy in a dream.  But it does have the side effect of making things without energy disappear into mist.  Happens consistently for me and also others who I've gotten to try it.  Like any dream skill, sometimes it doesn't work right away, but keep trying it and it will eventually.  Focus on the goal rather than the method (but the pointing with the pinky does seem to help.)

If someone wants to try that, I really want to hear what happened when you do.


The real way they stand out that they are really good at dreaming.  If you can enter people's dreams, you obviously have some skills.  Seeing them in action compared regular DCs is the difference between watching PeeWee league sports versus the professional leagues.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Edit: PS: At any night stalkers out there: I would appreciate if you did not attempt to "fight me in a dream," I'm not stupuid enough to challenge someone that weiother doesn;t exist or can challenge me at any time on his "home turf," though I would appreciate if any dream walkers theoretically happened to decide that their good deed for the day would be to assist me in my efforts to better understand or utilize lucid dreams.



you calling me stupid? lol (jk)
i just really want to see if it's real or not, and i think it's worth the "side effects" of a few nightmares to challenge the supposed NS. i believe in my powers in my own dream, and it's actually MY "home turf" they're dealing with. 

p.s. i don't think telling them not to fight you will help btw, since they are supposed to be bad guys anyway. if anything they would rather hunt you down since you are unwilling to fight, thus making it easier to torment you.

----------


## yaymancheese

hey I saw somethin like this on arthur, I Mean, not arthur, why would I watch arthur ::lol::  but anyways he realizes hes dreaming and he goes into everyone elses dreams and messes them up its funny

----------


## ForgottenDream

lmao, i use to watch arthur as a kid. i think you meant spongebob btw, i remember watching that episode with my little cousins.

----------


## Rajon

Don't fear just dream your heart out

----------


## Mr_Jinsue

I would like to ask,
Has anyone ever actually encountered a NS before they had ever heard of them or read about them? Cause this all sounds like something your subconscious would pull up once it knows about it.

Cheers

----------


## anomanderis

> 1. So, there is no known way to definitively differentiate between DCs and NS/DWs, though with experience one may be able to tell the difference.
> 2. I meant multiple times, not consistently. That was an error in my phrasing. But, basically, it is unlikely one would meet several different NS/DWs unintentionally, unless one happened to be aa sort of nexus for such beings?
> 3. I'm currently in a slightly more cynical mood than usual (by baseline cynicism being one of the reasons I made the avatar, thanks anomanderis), so I can;t bring myself to assume that even one of you is telling the truth, but if you are, _which is not an impossible, or even, based on other evidence, improbable,_ event, then the occurence of shared dreams, and thus people who can share dreams and convince themselves that they are Night stalkers or dream walkers, can and most likely do exist.
> 
> SO, thank you, this has been interesting. I hope I can learn more about this and other phenomenae by joining in conversations on this thread and forum.



1) There is, just that most of us (including me)  are still too inexperienced to be able to tell the difference. The energy seeing method The Cusp pointed out should be useful.
2)Extremely unlikely, I would say, but since I have no clue about how dream mechanics actually work, standard logic has a high probability of erring concerning this bit.
3) Believing in something without at least some proof is lunacy. That's why I've said before that although I do believe that such beings exist, because if dream sharing is real (of which I have no real proof, but cases seem to imply that it is) then logically i see no reason why DWs/NSs shouldn't exist, without definitive first-hand experience i will never believe it 100%.
All in all, i'd say their existence is migthy probable. 


I've had 1 or 2 (not more) dreams where I'm pretty sure I had energy vision. Assuming that I can only see the energy of non-DCs, then they were probably just dreams where I thought I had energy vision. 
The fact that I asked one of my friends who had been in this dream, where I saw his abdominal Dan Tien (energy storage center below the navel) being drained by something, and he didn't recall anything of the like would seem to indicate  just a regular dream.

----------


## ghosty

> I would like to ask,
> Has anyone ever actually encountered a NS before they had ever heard of them or read about them? Cause this all sounds like something your subconscious would pull up once it knows about it.
> 
> Cheers



maybe. first time ive ever heard about them was 2 minuets ago in this thread. heres a dream i had last week that i posted in another forum.

"im in full control of my dreams when they are lucid to the point where i can make a building shoot up from the ground, demolish it with a stare, jet off into outerspace like superman you name it. i love it its fun. recently i met a vampire in a dream who i could not control. he wanted to fight me and me being a geordie was like 'come on then'. i summoned my deepest rage but before i had a chance to do anything he slit my throat and flew away. blood was gushing but i wasnt worried because i knew it was a dream. i felt disappointed because until then i had always had control* of my dreams. i was so disappointed that i woke myself up on purpose like a stropy child.

*except one time when a giant hand picked me up by the back of my pants and swang me round as if to show me i wasnt really in control but it was a friendly presence." 

im going to think on this a bit and wait for my next experience with it before i draw up any conclusions.

----------


## Hukif

I still don't see how internet requests would do anything... there are billions of humans in Earth and I don't think someone is willing to give their real adress just for something that may be fake <.<
And... isn't technically knowing that NS/DW have energy will make your mind create a DC with "energy"? Oh and the first time I had a SD was some months ago after knowing that you could control dreams.

----------


## anomanderis

> I still don't see how internet requests would do anything... there are billions of humans in Earth and I don't think someone is willing to give their real adress just for something that may be fake <.<
> And... isn't technically knowing that NS/DW have energy will make your mind create a DC with "energy"? Oh and the first time I had a SD was some months ago after knowing that you could control dreams.



Everything associated with you has your energy  linked to it. This also applies to online nicknames.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Everything associated with you has your energy  linked to it. This also applies to online nicknames.



so basically, they sense the energy from our online nicknames, and somehow use that to locate us? i didn't have any real nightmares last night btw, just that a miniature dinosaur kept trying to bite me when i tried to go upstairs, and i managed to go upstairs anyway lol. if that's the best they can do then they should quit their night jobs. 


MY CHALLENGE IS STILL UP!!!

----------


## anomanderis

> so basically, they sense the energy from our online nicknames, and somehow use that to locate us?



Im saying that's one possible way of doing it.

----------


## Hukif

But that energy would do barely anything, because the connections use energy and it would mix with your own, then there is the energy of other people using the internet, and the energy of the places from where it pass, tough if they can follow that vague and low energy, I would be extremly impressed.

----------


## The Cusp

I would think you could get to know someone pretty well just by reading their posts.  Even more so if they keep an active DJ.

----------


## psychology student

Some guy burgled my house, and threatened me. I am inclined to believe that he may be part of the "Night Stalkers", because his name was Steve, and he acted in a naughty way in my opinion. 

Therefore, his initials are NS (naughty, Steve) for Night Stalker, so he must be part of the Night Stalkers; peculiar.  :Eek:

----------


## anomanderis

> But that energy would do barely anything, because the connections use energy and it would mix with your own, then there is the energy of other people using the internet, and the energy of the places her from where it pass, tough if they can follow that vague and low energy, I would be extremly impressed.



Take remote viweing for example (if you believe in it, of course ::roll:: ). That can be done solely by knowing the online nickname. Even though there might be hundreds of same nicknames elsewhere, the NS would know the forum which has the unique nickname and thus can zero-in on his/her target by just willing it. (Assuming they have that skill)

----------


## Pegasis

I have dremt about being stalked in my dreams and hunted.  I have also dreamed that I meet people or events in my life take place else where.

----------


## Hukif

Oh I forgot the mind/speed view of things "hits self" Tough I still ocnsider remote viewing and DW different things lol Then again... I has got... nothing out of common... and I really want to meet someone whos that strong on dreams <.<

----------


## cornflakegirl3301

Back from Hell, Shiloh Walker, a book about "night stalkers".  Moonstone comics has comics about night stalkers....coincidence?  Is that where they get their name from?  

This whole thread has intrigued me, true or not, its interesting!

----------


## cornflakegirl3301

> Lol its not possible...its just fantasy.
> 
> Honestly, think about it...if  ANY of the stuff you hear about subjects like this were real...there would be hardcore evidence, and it would be BIG FUCKING NEWS, it would be on every news story for the rest of existence, but the fact is...it isn't real.  There is no evidence for any of it...and if there were, well this is the 21st century...it would be all over the news, on every continent...there would probably even be classes specifically for it incorporated into upper _and_ low school systems...



Conspiracy!!  Maybe the people who can do this also are the 10 or 12 guys that run the entire world.

----------


## CJ1145

> Conspiracy!!  Maybe the people who can do this also are the 10 or 12 guys that run the entire world.



... Dick Cheney is a night stalker?!  ::shock:: 

Yeah, I'm not a hundred-percent sure that they're real, but I have one dream in particular that yells "night-stalker" at me.

It started out as a nightmare. I had watched all three Spider-man movies the night before, and I dreamt I was still in 7th grade, that there were four villains from the Spider-man comics and movies running around, destroying what seemed to be a combination of my town and New York city. I'm hiding under the auditorium with my friends, as Venom is trying to claw his way down and eat us. We were freaking out, and the thought crossed my mind "Oh man, this is worse than in Spider-man 3!" Then I thought "Wait... that was a movie! This can't be happening!" And I became lucid. I decided "If my DCs can be Venom... why can't I be Spider-man?" And like that, I was wearing the Black Suit. Payback-butter jelly time!  ::banana:: 

After turning Venom to a pile of goo, I start swinging around the city, and run across New Goblin and Doc Ock attacking the police. Doc Ock shoots his tentacles at me, but I web them to the wall, and he's stuck. One kick later, and he's down. I jump on New Goblin's hoverboard, and it pretty much just turns into a God-of-War esque combo smashdown, resulting in New Goblin falling to his death.

Here's where what I believe was a Night-stalker comes in. While I'm still on the hoverboard, I'm tackled by something, and we both hit the ground, hard. I look up, and see another Spider-man, except his suit is different, almost like it's on fire from the pattern. I ask him his name, but he just shakes his finger at me. (That's the weird part, because whether it be English, Spanish, or one of the 12,506.2 varieties of Gibberish, my DCs always talk.) I started calling him the Anti-Spider, because for one, Spider-man always talks, this guy is silent, and two, I'M THE ONLY SPIDEY IN THIS TOWN, BUB!

We start throwing punches, and I'm a little disturbed to find out he's just as powerful as I am. I increase my power, he increases with me. I tried to shoot web at him, he shoots flaming web at me. (Not fun  ::|: ) I start climbing higher, he follows. Eventually, we're swinging around on top of the Empire State building. I jump at him, he jumps at me, we collide in the air and start falling, still throwing the occasional punch. Neither of us can seem to swing away, and when we finally hit the ground, I woke up. It was weird for a lot of reasons. Was this a Night-stalker, or just an unusually stubborn DC?... or Marvel, in this case. (Bad jokes FTW! :smiley:

----------


## memeticverb

> ... Dick Cheney is a night stalker?! 
> 
> Yeah, I'm not a hundred-percent sure that they're real, but I have one dream in particular that yells "night-stalker" at me.
> 
> It started out as a nightmare. I had watched all three Spider-man movies the night before, and I dreamt I was still in 7th grade, that there were four villains from the Spider-man comics and movies running around, destroying what seemed to be a combination of my town and New York city. I'm hiding under the auditorium with my friends, as Venom is trying to claw his way down and eat us. We were freaking out, and the thought crossed my mind "Oh man, this is worse than in Spider-man 3!" Then I thought "Wait... that was a movie! This can't be happening!" And I became lucid. I decided "If my DCs can be Venom... why can't I be Spider-man?" And like that, I was wearing the Black Suit. Payback-butter jelly time! 
> 
> After turning Venom to a pile of goo, I start swinging around the city, and run across New Goblin and Doc Ock attacking the police. Doc Ock shoots his tentacles at me, but I web them to the wall, and he's stuck. One kick later, and he's down. I jump on New Goblin's hoverboard, and it pretty much just turns into a God-of-War esque combo smashdown, resulting in New Goblin falling to his death.
> 
> Here's where what I believe was a Night-stalker comes in. While I'm still on the hoverboard, I'm tackled by something, and we both hit the ground, hard. I look up, and see another Spider-man, except his suit is different, almost like it's on fire from the pattern. I ask him his name, but he just shakes his finger at me. (That's the weird part, because whether it be English, Spanish, or one of the 12,506.2 varieties of Gibberish, my DCs always talk.) I started calling him the Anti-Spider, because for one, Spider-man always talks, this guy is silent, and two, I'M THE ONLY SPIDEY IN THIS TOWN, BUB!
> ...



Wow, sounds like an incredible rush of a dream.  My LDCs are always talking too except when they appear in SP.  

The funny thing is we can never now for sure if our DCs and LDCs are anything more than our own creations.  But if they are merely creations,  then its quite a power indeed that the brain has and is still pretty inexplicable to current scientific theory.

----------


## ForgottenDream

CJ1145, i dunno whether or not it's a NS, but it just sounds like fun to me. for one reason; it can get boring if you win all the time and never have a real challenge. also if your subconscious is powerful enough to come up with all these crazy environments, characters, and all that, why can't it be powerful enough to create a worthy opponent who's a little different? your subconscious already knows what you're thinking before you even realize it, so it's most likely you challenging yourself. i strongly disbelieve in Night Stalkers (i'm not saying they can't possibly exist, just that it's unlikely) because i haven't experienced any of it, and i'm way too confident in what i'm doing in a dream, even in a non-lucid, to trick myself into even thinking about a possible NS while dreaming. maybe reading this thread had something to do with you thinking about NSs and therefore made you a little less confident in yourself.


*MY CHALLENGE IS STILL UP YOU IDIOT NIGHT STALKERS!*  :Mad:

----------


## CJ1145

> CJ1145, i dunno whether or not it's a NS, but it just sounds like fun to me. for one reason; it can get boring if you win all the time and never have a real challenge. also if your subconscious is powerful enough to come up with all these crazy environments, characters, and all that, why can't it be powerful enough to create a worthy opponent who's a little different? your subconscious already knows what you're thinking before you even realize it, so it's most likely you challenging yourself. i strongly disbelieve in Night Stalkers (i'm not saying they can't possibly exist, just that it's unlikely) because i haven't experienced any of it, and i'm way too confident in what i'm doing in a dream, even in a non-lucid, to trick myself into even thinking about a possible NS while dreaming. maybe reading this thread had something to do with you thinking about NSs and therefore made you a little less confident in yourself.
> 
> 
> *MY CHALLENGE IS STILL UP YOU IDIOT NIGHT STALKERS!*



The thing is, I had this dream a couple years back, before I even really knew what a lucid dream was. All I knew was that I was concious in a dream, and could mess with the dream's... somewhat-reality. And I DEFINITELY didn't know anything about Night Stalkers.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> The thing is, I had this dream a couple years back, before I even really knew what a lucid dream was. All I knew was that I was concious in a dream, and could mess with the dream's... somewhat-reality. And I DEFINITELY didn't know anything about Night Stalkers.



yeah, than it could be possible that there are Night Stalkers invading your dreams for whatever reason.

----------


## ubigcow

> If you can dreamwalk, I challenge you to come visit me tonight (or any night). If you present yourself in my dream, I will give you a message. Tell me the message here on this board, and I will send you a check for $1,000.



This was posted on the first page of this thread more than one year ago. I PMed skysaw and asked him if the challenge has been fullfilled and he said:
*Spoiler* for _said_: 







> Feel free to quote me. The challenge stands!







That makes this:
*Spoiler* for _this_: 







> *MY CHALLENGE IS STILL UP YOU IDIOT NIGHT STALKERS!*






 seem kind of petty. Since it was on the first page, I doubt anyone has read it though.
I seem to quote people a lot in this page, huh. ::banana::

----------


## WarriorQueen

I'm just arrived here and i've already found what i was looking for!!!Great!I know "dreams invaders" very well...they're old "friends"....But now they are not so invincible....Sometimes are rather funny!!!

----------


## What??Me??

My challenge is still up to... Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn night stalkers are weak little wussies who are afraid to take me on!

----------


## The Cusp

Last night while lucid, I noticed a "DC" who had the same measure of control over his environment as I did.  He didn't even seem to notice me, he was just doing his own thing like he was passing through the dream.

I attempted to influence or control his behavior, but nothing I tried worked.  Every single other element of the dream would bend to my will, but not this guy.  I didn't actually directly interact with him, I was trying to be sneaky.  Too bad my recall of that dream sucks.

That's the first DC I've seen that has displayed that kind of control since my encounters with the NS.  He didn't pay the slightest attention to me, so perhaps he was just a wanderer who was passing through my dream?

----------


## ForgottenDream

the SAME people keep coming up with these dreams dealing with strange DC's, and supposed nightstalkers. is there anyone who was a strong skeptic, and changed their mind after encountering something like this? i'm very curious, even though i don't believe in it. does my not believing have anything to do with it? (more than likely) i would say i'm 98-99% a non-believer, but i'm not going to say it's completely impossible.

also, more importantly, is there anyone who was a strong believer who changed there mind and decided it was just their imagination?

----------


## tnemrot

> perhaps he was just a wanderer who was passing through my dream?



Or you were passing through his  :wink2:

----------


## The Cusp

> the SAME people keep coming up with these dreams dealing with strange DC's, and supposed nightstalkers. 
> 
> also, more importantly, is there anyone who was a strong believer who changed there mind and decided it was just their imagination?



Why is it always the same scientists who keep coming up with stuff in specific areas of study, or why is it the same writers who keep writing newspaper articles about sports or politics?  Because that's their area of expertise. I have 17 years of active dreaming experience.  It's taken me that long to figure out what makes shared dreaming experiences unique.

You make it sound like there have been lots of these alleged encounters, and while this thread is massive, there have been very few accounts of people having experienced some form of NS.

Initially, I had dismissed my NS encounters as having been self induced.  It's only when I looked at that collection of dreams as a whole that I noticed what set them apart from normal dreams.  The factors that set these dreams apart from regular ones were not something I was expecting to find, so there is no way I could have induced those myself.  I learned a great deal from those encounters, and that knowledge is proof enough for me.

----------


## onyxdreamer

So seriously.  How do we know this not all in your minds?

I  mean, if you challenge a "nightstalker" and go to sleep, why would your mind not concoct a dream story around it?

----------


## ForgottenDream

i have to agree with onyxdreamer. 

to The Cusp- scientists keep coming up with stuff in specific areas of study, because those areas of study interests them. are you saying because you are interested in this subject it keeps happening to you? i am highly interested in this subject, and so far i haven't encountered any "weird" DCs. i'm not trying to start anything with you, i'm just trying to get it straight, and i really do wish it was real btw. and it's great that you proved it to yourself, but an insane person can prove anything to themselves and that wouldn't make it real (i'm not calling you insane, it's just an example).

----------


## anomanderis

> are you saying because you are interested in this subject it keeps happening to you?



One could argue that that is the case, but I believe the Cusp meant, because they deal with those subjects often, if not daily: researching, thinking, experimenting.. the people doing that would be the ones interested in doing so and the ones to make new discoveries.

----------


## The Cusp

> are you saying because you are interested in this subject it keeps happening to you?



I never said it keeps happening to me.  I had about a three or four week period after making my challenges where I initially encountered at least two people several times.  That ended when I hurt one of them for real, and I haven't seen anything like that since that guy who just seemed to be passing through my dreams.  Those people who say they stopped lucid dreaming because they had too much control and it got boring are lying!!!  

If anything, it should be happening to me more often if it was self induced.  And I'd give almost anything to be able _to_ induce those kinds of dreams.  Since developing these rules from those initial set of dreams, I have had a serious lack of worthy advesaries in my dreams.  It's just gotten too easy.  Not to be mistaken for boring, but it's just no fun fighting someone you know you're in complete control of.  If anything my battles have turned in to lab experiments.

But the battles I had with the NS were thrilling beyond description.  You just can't help but admire they skill they display, even though it's being used against you.  Not only did I get to learn what they were doing by being victimized by it, but I got to practice it by using it against them.  Fighting normal DC's is like fighting a 5 year old, no matter how big and nasty it may be.  With the NS it like a championship match.  The twists and turns, the masterful manipulation of attention, it's just such a fast back and forth thing...  It's really something else.

Understand that I have 17 years of my dreams to compare these instances against.  They are both unique and very rare.  Learning to identify these incidents has been like learning how to see one of those hidden images where you have to go cross eyed or something (those things give me a headache).

----------


## NostalgicHoney

I do _know_.
But I'll never tell you.  ::wtf2::

----------


## tommo

WOW 31 pages!
These NightStalkers seem like a load of shit, I'd need to experience it to believe it, I'd like to see their power because they seem very sissy from the writings on them.  Come get me mother f$^@ers!!!!
I'll be waiting for you tonight and this weekend!

----------


## DeathCell

> So these people come into your dreams? I find that somewhat hard to believe. How are they going to project their conscious into your sub-conscious telepathically? There is very little about them on the internets...



I highly doubt theirs many or any people on planet earth with this ability at this point in our evolution..

More likely people no longer incarnated into this plain will end up in your dreams with control.. To tell you something for instance. The greats of this world that are out of the loop.

----------


## tommo

So it's more likely that souls from people long dead are haunting our dreams than other people that are alive?
I choose night stalkers over dreaming souls any day.

----------


## DeathCell

I'd assume souls of the dead would be more likely to enter your dreams.. someone you know or someone that died in the area... 
Just an assumption though, either that or people in your dreams are nothing but the congurations of your mind.

----------


## Tyler

If anybody on this thread has the ability to "Dreamwalk" send me a private message plz.

----------


## ElmStreetCrusader

Okay...Yes, I do believe in DreamWalking. BUT you can't just challenge random people to enter your dreams. It does not work like that.

I read on the net somewhere that the person pictures a bridge with whoever he/she wants to contact on the other side. If the person is not there, the person is not dreaming. If the person is there though, an attempt to talk to the person is made.

Now, for this to work, there has to be a visual representation of who you want to contact, in other words, the DW needs to know what you look like or even know you personally.

So, randomly challenging people won't do anything.

My DW challenge is to give someone my email address, miley cyrus or someone :smiley: . Damn these damn timezones! 

Just my 2cents,
EsC

PS: If that cash offer still stands, Ill give you my account details later in your dreams ::D: . Look out for Fred Krueger btw he is one nasty mofo ::lol::

----------


## tommo

Waaaa?  so you're saying you're a DW/NS?

----------


## benTENDO

> Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself.



Being a Night stalker/Rouge could I ask that you try to enter my dreams? I would like to experience this for myself before i believe it.. Basically I think it's BS

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Okay...Yes, I do believe in DreamWalking. BUT you can't just challenge random people to enter your dreams. It does not work like that.
> 
> I read on the net somewhere that the person pictures a bridge with whoever he/she wants to contact on the other side. If the person is not there, the person is not dreaming. If the person is there though, an attempt to talk to the person is made.
> 
> Now, for this to work, there has to be a visual representation of who you want to contact, in other words, the DW needs to know what you look like or even know you personally.
> 
> So, randomly challenging people won't do anything.
> 
> My DW challenge is to give someone my email address, miley cyrus or someone. Damn these damn timezones! 
> ...



i just wanna know, how do you know your source is reliable? what makes you think this theory is accurate, as opposed to the theory that a person can in some way sense your essence or whatever through the internet? i mean, there is no way to actually know or really any reason i can see to believe it without experiencing it. the idea that a person can dreamwalk if they have your information only makes it seem more plausible, but that is only an illusion, because it can't be proven. you shouldn't believe just whatever you read on the net is what i'm trying to say. i'm not trying to bash you or anything, i just want you to sit and think to yourself why you believe in any of it, and if there is any reason to.

----------


## Eonnn

OMG i can't believe this thread is still going...

Its a load of BS and I challenge anyone who believes they are a NS/DW to come visit me in my dreams.

----------


## Man of Shred

Well I'm willing to try a 3 month long Dreamshare experiment. I am looking for 1 person, preferably female because they have an abundance of dreaming energy. Males I'll take if no one else offers.

 The goal: to see if we can influence eachothers dreams. Dreamwalk into eachother's dreams. or dreamshare.

 Requirements: -the persons mind MUST be open minded .
- The person MUST be the type to keep trying and not scoff if nothing happens at first.
- The person MUST put everything he/she can into the project for 3 months. That means keeping in contact with me 2-3 times a week to anylise dream signs that are common and further plans of accomplishing the goal.
- The person MUST be in my timezone (mountain standard)

 if interested PM me for further details

----------


## Bob Dole

> I can only say this...IDIOT!!!BAKA!!!!MORON!!!!
> For now I think this is enough on that.
> 
> Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself.
> 
> You have no idea how many people that are either Night Stalkers or Dream Walkers are actually on this thread at this moment. God and I thought I had bravado when I walked into their camp, LOL!!!
> You got guts, I like that and I hope you kick some serious ass but I warn you, the N.S are masters of causing pain you can't even begin to comprehend...but hell...there are so few dreamers that have the guts to stand up to them I will take my hat off to you.
> Welcome to my war.
> 
> ...



Are you people for real? This is what you people believe? Jesus Christ. First time in this forum and I really want to know what drugs you guys are using. One thread some guy claims to meet gods and demons, another people are creating knifes out of "energy", next thread some guy is a hunter of magical Freddy Krugers. You're all batshit insane, I hate to break it to you. 

I'm going to give you the best advice someone can give you. Go see a Psychologist or at the very least settle for a final fantasy game. At least there you can have your fantasy life without seeming like a schizophrenic who has been off his meds. Still probably won't help with getting laid, though. 

In conclusion I dare all you elfs from the high kingdom of crazy land to use your "powers" against me.

----------


## spockman

> They also have a strong evil presence about them that you can sense intuitively. The only true way to beat them is to turn them away from evil, fear and negativity and towards good, happiness and positivity. All you really have to do is think about the most pleasant fun time you have ever had. Recreate the feeling and once you feel that feeling, amplify it by concentrating on the feeling alone (note this is a good thing to do whether your being attacked or not). Remember the quote "there is nothing to fear but fear itself"?



Expecto... Patronum!!!!!

No, but seriously. This all interests me. I don't neccessarily scoff at or praise this stuff. I've seen enough wierd crap in my life to believe that the number of forces at work in thsi world are countless. At the same time, I'm grounded in logic and see alternate explanations to everything that would at first seem mystical brought up. 

So, I ask for someone knowledgable on the subject who can take time out of thier days to do so to please PM me with their interpretations of answeres to a few questions. 

Thank you.

----------


## Maeni

> Are you people for real? This is what you people believe? Jesus Christ. First time in this forum and I really want to know what drugs you guys are using. One thread some guy claims to meet gods and demons, another people are creating knifes out of "energy", next thread some guy is a hunter of magical Freddy Krugers. You're all batshit insane, I hate to break it to you. 
> 
> I'm going to give you the best advice someone can give you. Go see a Psychologist or at the very least settle for a final fantasy game. At least there you can have your fantasy life without seeming like a schizophrenic who has been off his meds. Still probably won't help with getting laid, though. 
> 
> In conclusion I dare all you elfs from the high kingdom of crazy land to use your "powers" against me.



I'll have to agree with this guy right here.
I thought about saying something like that in the Guy Meets Gods and Demons thread aswell..


Dreamviews is full of these people. We have the religious people, we have atheists, we have spiritual people. Then we have these Extremos Religious and Extremos Spiritual people.

A little while ago, some guy came here claiming he could go to bed and have a Lucid, then wake up without losing his lucid powers. He didn't post after that thread.

Then we have these guys, who think they can walk into other peoples minds while they sleep, forming very MMORPG-like guilds.

And we have the guys who come along and shout about the Law of Attraction, The Secret and such.

We have the highly religious people who come along and quote books en masse and randomly start flame wars because of a topic that has been discussed hundreds of times.

Then we have this recent guy who felt like going to Dreamviews to tell us about how he casually met a God and a Demon. Demons were angry, and imps were blown. 

With all those people, why would ONE more, ONE person think that he would have any chance to be more right than all the others?

Seriously, if you have some knowledge that almost no-one believes in, try to consider, maybe my knowledge is really just a theory, that might not be right.
There are a gazzilion people like you on Dreamviews, who think they have the truth. Why are you right? Why are you right when all these others have failed?

Disclaimer: No offense intended, atleast not to everyone who was mentioned. And even then, it's more like just asking you to think, and not offensively meant.

Rantoff.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> I'll have to agree with this guy right here.
> I thought about saying something like that in the Guy Meets Gods and Demons thread aswell..
> 
> 
> Dreamviews is full of these people. We have the religious people, we have atheists, we have spiritual people. Then we have these Extremos Religious and Extremos Spiritual people.
> 
> A little while ago, some guy came here claiming he could go to bed and have a Lucid, then wake up without losing his lucid powers. He didn't post after that thread.
> 
> Then we have these guys, who think they can walk into other peoples minds while they sleep, forming very MMORPG-like guilds.
> ...



you have a great point that many (and i do mean many) people should consider. i remember that guy who said he woke up one day and saw that he still had his lucid powers for awhile, i believe the reason why he didn't post afterwards is because he said he was only 14 and you have to be at least 15 to join, so he got banned. again, you have a great point, and hopefully some people get the message and at least think critically about their beliefs and why they have them, and reason out why they think they're right while others are wrong.

----------


## Gez

> you have a great point that many (and i do mean many) people should consider. i remember that guy who said he woke up one day and saw that he still had his lucid powers for awhile, i believe the reason why he didn't post afterwards is because he said he was only 14 and you have to be at least 15 to join, so he got banned. again, you have a great point, and hopefully some people get the message and at least think critically about their beliefs and why they have them, and reason out why they think they're right while others are wrong.



haha i wan't a link to that thread

----------


## Vanota

I find it interesting that a collective of so many people who can lucid dream - an ability that is not understood in the least by the general public, let alone the scientific community - can so easily disregard advances in their own art. If you don't understand exactly what lucid dreaming is, or how it works, then how can you rule out or discredit the possibility of Dream Walkers and Night Stalkers? 

The people posting in this thread have obviously had seperate experiences before meeting each other, here or otherwise. All of the experiences described here display the same symptoms. THINK, people!! Lucid dreamers who regularly maintain complete control over their environments suddenly encounter an adversary whom they CANNOT affect directly? That is not a normal, subconsciously generated character. 

Unfortunately, I have one as yet unresolved conflict with the concept. 

Although several here have said that they have the ability, no true member of any faction has yet revealed him/herself. (Please correct me if I am mistaken; I've only read the first 6 pages on this topic - it's LOOONG!) I suspect they prefer anonymity to protect themselves from the other factions, or prefer maintaining strict secrecy. The exception to this is the hunter who posted near the beginning of this thread, but as far as I know he has not spoken of meeting other Rogues, let alone dreamwalking himself. His adversaries came to him. A true Hunter would seek them out in their dreams, no?

To finalize:

I believe that this phenomena exists. However, to remove all doubt, I would have to be contacted by a Dream Walker or Night Stalker myself.

In the meantime, I encourage all of you (Sanz, Lex, etc.) to pm me and share your experiences and theories. However, this request is mainly intended for any Dream Walkers (or Night Stalkers) here on this forum. I solemnly pledge to maintain your secrecy and anonymity if you contact me. And if you find me in my dreams... so much the better.





I apologize for this post's extended longevity, but I needed to make it meaningful.

----------


## The Cusp

> I find it interesting that a collective of so many people who can lucid dream - an ability that is not understood in the least by the general public, let alone the scientific community - can so easily disregard advances in their own art. If you don't understand exactly what lucid dreaming is, or how it works, then how can you rule out or discredit the possibility of Dream Walkers and Night Stalkers?



I find it odd that of all the people who can lucid dream, nobody ever tries to do this.  They will do the most inane tasks, but never attempt anything serious.  A few try now and then, but everyone gives up after a few tries.  (Myself included  :Oops: )

----------


## Vanota

> I find it odd that of all the people who can lucid dream, nobody ever tries to do this.  They will do the most inane tasks, but never attempt anything serious.  A few try now and then, but everyone gives up after a few tries.  (Myself included )



I believe you will find my dedication to extend beyond that of those who give up after only a few attempts. With firm resolve and will, and a little imagination, the human mind can accomplish anything.

----------


## Gez

Im not really to sure about all of this, sounds like some roleplay stuff, i am however open minded and have got nothing to lose  :tongue2: 
Alot of people have probably tried calling you "Dream walkers" or 
" Nightstalkers " out and challenging you etc, i simply ask you to introduce yourself to me in a dream and make yourself know, a freindly greeting.
Why not?

----------


## WakataDreamer

> Are you people for real? This is what you people believe? Jesus Christ. First time in this forum and I really want to know what drugs you guys are using. One thread some guy claims to meet gods and demons, another people are creating knifes out of "energy", next thread some guy is a hunter of magical Freddy Krugers. You're all batshit insane, I hate to break it to you. 
> 
> I'm going to give you the best advice someone can give you. Go see a Psychologist or at the very least settle for a final fantasy game. At least there you can have your fantasy life without seeming like a schizophrenic who has been off his meds. Still probably won't help with getting laid, though. 
> 
> In conclusion I dare all you elfs from the high kingdom of crazy land to use your "powers" against me.







> I'll have to agree with this guy right here.
> I thought about saying something like that in the Guy Meets Gods and Demons thread aswell..
> 
> 
> Dreamviews is full of these people. We have the religious people, we have atheists, we have spiritual people. Then we have these Extremos Religious and Extremos Spiritual people.
> 
> A little while ago, some guy came here claiming he could go to bed and have a Lucid, then wake up without losing his lucid powers. He didn't post after that thread.
> 
> Then we have these guys, who think they can walk into other peoples minds while they sleep, forming very MMORPG-like guilds.
> ...



FINALLY, LOGICAL PEOPLE IN THE BEYOND DREAMING SUBFORUM!  ::bowdown::

----------


## ubigcow

> Although several here have said that they have the ability, no true member of any faction has yet revealed him/herself. (Please correct me if I am mistaken; I've only read the first 6 pages on this topic - it's LOOONG!)



You are almost correct, no one except some guy who later said he was kidding has said that they are a Dream Walker or Night Stalker. There have been several people who have said that they can dreamshare, however. I think it was at about page 5, but im too lazy to check. ::banana:: 





> FINALLY, LOGICAL PEOPLE IN THE BEYOND DREAMING SUBFORUM!



If you don't believe in the things said in this forum, *Don't get on this forum.* The rules clearly state that this forum is for belivers only

 ::banana::  :Off topic:  ::banana:: 




> I apologize for this post's extended longevity, but I needed to make it meaningful.



Extended partially by the use of redundant repetition.

----------


## tommo

> Are you people for real? This is what you people believe? Jesus Christ. First time in this forum and I really want to know what drugs you guys are using. One thread some guy claims to meet gods and demons, another people are creating knifes out of "energy", next thread some guy is a hunter of magical Freddy Krugers. You're all batshit insane, I hate to break it to you. 
> 
> I'm going to give you the best advice someone can give you. Go see a Psychologist or at the very least settle for a final fantasy game. At least there you can have your fantasy life without seeming like a schizophrenic who has been off his meds. Still probably won't help with getting laid, though. 
> 
> In conclusion I dare all you elfs from the high kingdom of crazy land to use your "powers" against me.



I've wanted to say the same thing exactly, but I tend not to be an asshole and just try to convince people that they're logic is as far from logic as humanly possible.  Plus if that's all you've seen you better get the hell out of the Beyond Dreaming section or you probably won't be seeing any more posts of any type on this forum.





> I find it interesting that a collective of so many people who can lucid dream - an ability that is not understood in the least by the general public, let alone the scientific community - can so easily disregard advances in their own art. If you don't understand exactly what lucid dreaming is, or how it works, then how can you rule out or discredit the possibility of Dream Walkers and Night Stalkers? 
> 
> The people posting in this thread have obviously had seperate experiences before meeting each other, here or otherwise. All of the experiences described here display the same symptoms. THINK, people!! Lucid dreamers who regularly maintain complete control over their environments suddenly encounter an adversary whom they CANNOT affect directly? That is not a normal, subconsciously generated character. 
> 
> Unfortunately, I have one as yet unresolved conflict with the concept. 
> 
> Although several here have said that they have the ability, no true member of any faction has yet revealed him/herself. (Please correct me if I am mistaken; I've only read the first 6 pages on this topic - it's LOOONG!) I suspect they prefer anonymity to protect themselves from the other factions, or prefer maintaining strict secrecy. The exception to this is the hunter who posted near the beginning of this thread, but as far as I know he has not spoken of meeting other Rogues, let alone dreamwalking himself. His adversaries came to him. A true Hunter would seek them out in their dreams, no?
> 
> To finalize:
> ...



So.... you believe in it even though you KNOW you have proof that it's not real?  You may as well admit that you believe in it.
The reason everybody's experiences are similar is because they've all read about people experiences with NS/DS.
Also we do understand LD'ing, at least a bit.  It's dreaming normally but you become aware that you're dreaming and so your conscious brain 'wakes up' so to speak.  Does anybody experience shared dreams in normal dreams?  In all of the probably thousands of dreams you've had with your friends or family in them, has any of your family or friends said they had the exact same dream?  (If you tell them the dream of course).
No.  So why should it be any different just because you're lucid.

----------


## spockman

Whether or not it's plausible, it's still interesting isn't it? I believe that dreams are all in our own heads as much as the next eprson, but with s large number of people beleiving in this DW/NS thing it's certainly captivating.

----------


## Vanota

> Does anybody experience shared dreams in normal dreams?  In all of the probably thousands of dreams you've had with your friends or family in them, has any of your family or friends said they had the exact same dream?  (If you tell them the dream of course).



Yes. On several occasions.

----------


## tommo

I had a 'shared dream' last night and I was lucid and so was my dad and so I said to him "I think this is a shared dream" and he said "nah its probably just (bla bla bla something)"  and I said "I'll ask you tomorrow if you remember this dream".

So I asked him just before "do you remember any of your dreams last night?"
He says "Why?  do you think we shared a dream?"  or something like that
I said "Why do you say that?" and he's like "Dunno, just had a feeling you were going to ask that"  "but not I don't remember any of my dreams last night"

That's pretty strange that he knew I was going to ask but I'm pretty sure it had something to do with the fact that I randomly asked if he remembered his dreams.

----------


## WILDlife

Hey everyone, read through most of this tread(first 20 pages!) in the past hr and a half...and in conclusion I think there is no conclusion. Like most ideas people tend to fed off them...they develop and over time can slowly become real in a persons mind even though the initial idea may only have been something as small as coversation like "i saw something strange in my dreams last night..like a shadow person" ...a friend replys "yea thats weird" off to bed that night and they dream like always but with the idea of a shadow person sitting in they're mind,lone behold they too see a shadow character...the plot thickins...

Then on the other hand perhaps the people on here are meeting these beings..fighting, battling whatever and over time have developed more and more knowledge to tell they're story. Overcoarse every story starts small and with nobody agreeing untill some day your not the only one talking about it...

Well thats my 2 cents anyways and if people get a lil pissed off because I voiced an opinion in this thread where somebody actually said not to post comments if your not a believer..well thats just a ridiculous statement...its like saying don't visit the dreamviews website if you've never had a lucid dream..!

----------


## maxjohan

Good to read this last page, atleast some people haven't lost their mind completely  ::roll:: 

I mean we may have the power to do a lot of things and the mind is powerful. Thinking you have god-like powers and so you can use others as your slave, thats just friggin ridiculous.

Keep your-life in balance folks. You are not god, you are not master of the universe.

Dreams can be fun, but reading every book there is about dreams and practice lucid dreaming every night, I dont think thats healthy at all.

I'm not about to tell people how they want to live their life here, and a lot of strange stuff happens to me, and I can live with that.

Digging to deep in to any topic, and then specially the unknown and dreams, I think that's a dangerous life-style.

It's kind of like food, eat at regular times and medium portions. Eat too much and you get fat and unhealthy.

And eat to little, *don't means that you 'dream to little*. It means  that you sleep to little.

See past the *megalomania,* and save yourself from going mad*!

*
That's all I have to say about this.

----------


## xTecHiE1

I may have come in contact with one. I had a FA, did a RC and got Lucid, but then all of a sudden my cat comes running up to me and goes OMG There's a bad guy outside!! I stayed lucid, he came in my house and i hurled the television clicker at him and hit him in the face. we got into a fist fight, punching each other and stuff. it didnt hurt, more like a feeling of discomfort.
I made myself wake up cause it was lame. I dont know if he was a NS/DW/Rogue or just my subconcious trying to make me non-lucid.

his description: Taller than me, 5'8 maybe? Black Hair to shoulders, kinda wavy. Caucasian with a tan, like australian actually. Brown Eyes. wearing a white wifebeater and idk about pants, maybe jeans?

----------


## tommo

> You are not god, you are not master of the universe.



Lol, "you are the same decaying organic matter as everything else"  ::lol::

----------


## Gez

seriously, can someone link me to the thread with the guy claming to have lucid powers when he woke up.

----------


## charlieboy24

u skeptics are right, and so are the belivers! every one has his own right`nes..
what is true for you is true...nobody can take that away from u...unless u let them!!
my personal truth is that ALL what one experience is what is created by ones thinking! be that, dreams, waken world, feelings or what ever.. that explains alot of dream signs :smiley:  and the awaken life to! all our life we have ben thaught that we can not fly, cause we are a body and have to aply the laws of pfysics...we agree and so it is...in dreams we do not have a long time track telling us what we can and not...(:

----------


## maxjohan

> all our life we have ben thaught that we can not fly, cause we are a body and have to aply the laws of pfysics...we agree and so it is...in dreams we do not have a long time track telling us what we can and not...(:



Yeah i will deff. teach my new borns how to fly.. jesus.

Just wave a lil with your arms kid and off you go. ::roll::

----------


## ForgottenDream

> seriously, can someone link me to the thread with the guy claming to have lucid powers when he woke up.



i tried looking for it, but it's been awhile so i couldn't find it. plus the kid is banned so maybe the thread is deleted or something, i don't know.

----------


## tommo

> Yeah i will deff. teach my new borns how to fly.. jesus.
> 
> Just wave a lil with your arms kid and off you go.



Haha.  It helps if you just throw them off a cliff like some animals do.  If they die, they just weren't ready yet....

----------


## spockman

> u skeptics are right, and so are the belivers! every one has his own right`nes..
> what is true for you is true...nobody can take that away from u...unless u let them!!



But 2+2 doesn't equal 5 no matter how much one may believe it.

Belief dosen't define reality, beleif defines 'perception,' maybe.

----------


## tommo

EXACTLY Spockman!
and maybe is also the key word.  Just because you believe your vision is Sepia monotone doesn't mean you're going to perceive everything in Sepia.  And it definitely DOES NOT mean everything IS Sepia.  What happens if someone truly believes everything is black and white monotone?  ah? ah!

----------


## ForgottenDream

> EXACTLY Spockman!
> and maybe is also the key word.  Just because you believe your vision is Sepia monotone doesn't mean you're going to perceive everything in Sepia.  And it definitely DOES NOT mean everything IS Sepia.  What happens if someone truly believes everything is black and white monotone?  ah? ah!



yeah, i had a history teacher who thought his house was gray, until one day he took a taxi home and told the cab driver to pull up to the gray house, and the cab driver told him the house he was talking about was actually blue. it turned out that's how my former history teacher found out he was color blind and couldn't see blues and certain other colors. the point is, he believed for years that his house was gray and he had no reason to believe otherwise, yet it didn't magically turn gray just because he believed.

----------


## tommo

Excellent point.
Same happened to my Opa he had a green car and his dad argued for years for him to get rid of that horrible thing.  After it died or whatever and he sold it his dad mentioned that 'you finally got rid of that horrible yellow car'.  He was probably in his 50's or older by then, irrelevant fact but it's odd how many people don't even notice lol.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Excellent point.
> Same happened to my Opa he had a green car and his dad argued for years for him to get rid of that horrible thing.  After it died or whatever and he sold it his dad mentioned that 'you finally got rid of that horrible yellow car'.  He was probably in his 50's or older by then, irrelevant fact but it's odd how many people don't even notice lol.



wow 50. i bet a lot people find out about their color blindness later in life, but 50 is pretty late lol. 

i guess now the "just believe, and it will be true" myth (if you can call it that) is now busted lol.

----------


## ShadowmanX

Seems like this thread ended the same way as every other of his kind. The discussion about a special topic became a discussion about whats possible and what what not.

Help me a little what was the Beyond Dreaming section made for?

And for all those who think everything has to be logic: Tell me logically how lucid dreaming works, I'm really interessted in your ideas ^^

----------


## wendylove

> And for all those who think everything has to be logic: Tell me logically how lucid dreaming works, I'm really interessted in your ideas ^^







> Neuroscientist J. Allan Hobson has hypothesized as to what might be occurring in the brain while lucid. The first step to lucid dreaming is recognizing that one is dreaming. This recognition might occur in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, which is one of the few areas deactivated during REM sleep and where working memory occurs. Once this area is activated and the recognition of dreaming occurs, the dreamer must be cautious to let the dream delusions continue but be conscious enough to recognize them. This process might be seen as the balance between reason and emotion. While maintaining this balance, the amygdala and parahippocampal cortex might be less intensely activated.[9] To continue the intensity of the dream hallucinations, it is expected the pons and the parieto-occipital junction stay active.[10]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_d...ntific_history

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Seems like this thread ended the same way as every other of his kind. The discussion about a special topic became a discussion about whats possible and what what not.
> 
> Help me a little what was the Beyond Dreaming section made for?
> 
> And for all those who think everything has to be logic: Tell me logically how lucid dreaming works, I'm really interessted in your ideas ^^



well, i bet this thread is far from over lol, so you can't say it ended the same way as others of its kind. for all we know this is only half of the whole discussion lol. 

i don't really understand your question. lucid dreaming works when you notice you're dreaming, and while you're dreaming your brain releases special chemicals to make you hallucinate (sorry i don't recall the names of all the chemicals lol), and parts of your brain are shut off so you believe in "dream logic". while you're lucid you basically turn on certain parts of your brain that would otherwise be off.

----------


## ShadowmanX

Well I think to become lucid there have to be several parts of the brain active, not when you become lucid they get active. I guess you would never ever be able to get lucid, because the part that would tell you "do a Reality Check" is inactive and therefor can't make you doing this.

As for the hallucinations. Don't you have to be able to use your senses to hallucinate? Well you have your dream senses, but those aren't real senses, they are just imagined senses. I guess that theory is busted ^^

----------


## tommo

> Well I think to become lucid there have to be several parts of the brain active, not when you become lucid they get active. I guess you would never ever be able to get lucid, because the part that would tell you "do a Reality Check" is inactive and therefor can't make you doing this.



Wat the fuck are you talking about?





> As for the hallucinations. Don't you have to be able to use your senses to hallucinate? Well you have your dream senses, but those aren't real senses, they are just imagined senses. I guess that theory is busted ^^



Hallucinating is not real senses lol that's why its called hallucinating.
Also it's not a theory if there's no proof whatsoever there needs to be some sort of credible scientific evidence to back it up, historical or trials.

Forgottendream certain scientists, can't remember names right now, one a
neuro bla bla something said it is DMT that makes you dream.  But of course other things like serotonin would rush into your brain too.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Hallucinating is not real senses lol that's why its called hallucinating.
> Also it's not a theory if there's no proof whatsoever there needs to be some sort of credible scientific evidence to back it up, historical or trials.
> 
> Forgottendream certain scientists, can't remember names right now, one a
> neuro bla bla something said it is DMT that makes you dream.  But of course other things like serotonin would rush into your brain too.



yeah those are some of the chemicals at work to create the visuals and other hallucinations, especially DMT. DMT is also responsible for the near death experience when under enormous stress the brain pumps massive amounts of DMT. this happened to me once out of nowhere while i was in a car with my friends and everything was in super slow-motion, easily one of the coolest things i've experienced. 
i laughed out loud when i read "don't you have to be able to use your senses to hallucinate?"  ::lol::  obviously hallucinations (visual, auditory, taste, smell, etc.) happen with the absence of external stimuli, meaning you don't actually use your real senses but it's just as real  ::doh::

----------


## erik212

I'm too lazy to read 32 pages of posts, but all I want to say is that night stalkers and dream walkers are BS. No one can enter your mind or conscience without you letting them. It's just not possible. In other realms you can bump into malevolent entities, but not in your own conscience. Anyone claiming that this stuff is true is just a victim of the placebo effect.

----------


## tommo

> yeah those are some of the chemicals at work to create the visuals and other hallucinations, especially DMT. DMT is also responsible for the near death experience when under enormous stress the brain pumps massive amounts of DMT. this happened to me once out of nowhere while i was in a car with my friends and everything was in super slow-motion, easily one of the coolest things i've experienced. 
> i laughed out loud when i read "don't you have to be able to use your senses to hallucinate?"  obviously hallucinations (visual, auditory, taste, smell, etc.) happen with the absence of external stimuli, meaning you don't actually use your real senses but it's just as real



Hey that's pretty cool.  Any other things happen to you besides slowing down?  Like other hallucinations? Colours more vivid etc.

I've had slowing down before but I reckon at least 20 times I've experienced everything being really fast.  It's so weird coz' I could comprehend how something could slow down because your brain had the memories and can relay them at a slower rate or whatever.  So it confused me how everything could speed up.
Then I realised that my vision was just more sensitive.  Alan Watts mentioned it in one of his speeches I listened to a while after the last time this happened to me and he says 'in certain types of paranoia everything appears to be just a machine'.  This is exactly how I would describe it now.  But I think it's only because like even the slightest movement I could see, so it kind of looked like machines moving because they can't move very fluidly, kind of jittery.  Really very cool.
Sorry kind of off-topic there.





> I'm too lazy to read 32 pages of posts, but all I want to say is that night stalkers and dream walkers are BS. No one can enter your mind or conscience without you letting them. It's just not possible. In other realms you can bump into malevolent entities, but not in your own conscience. Anyone claiming that this stuff is true is just a victim of the placebo effect.



ROFLMAO.  I thought you were going to say unless you let them, like tell someone what you're thinking at a certain time or something.  So they can be in the same sort of moment.  How can you deny NS/DW without any doubt whatsoever and then say you can go into other realms to meet people?  Is there a gateway in your closet too?   ::lol::  (Sabrina reference) lol

----------


## erik212

I don't think you understand the difference between a dream and out of body travel. No outside being can ever directly influence your dreams. A dream takes place within your conscience, while when traveling _out of body_, you are in a different demension. There, you can interact with other consciences from other people. However, normal humans can't really pose any threat. It's the other entities that roam the astral planes that cause trouble. No one can enter or take over your conscience. Your conscience _can_ interact with other beings though.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Hey that's pretty cool.  Any other things happen to you besides slowing down?  Like other hallucinations? Colours more vivid etc.
> 
> I've had slowing down before but I reckon at least 20 times I've experienced everything being really fast.  It's so weird coz' I could comprehend how something could slow down because your brain had the memories and can relay them at a slower rate or whatever.  So it confused me how everything could speed up.
> Then I realised that my vision was just more sensitive.  Alan Watts mentioned it in one of his speeches I listened to a while after the last time this happened to me and he says 'in certain types of paranoia everything appears to be just a machine'.  This is exactly how I would describe it now.  But I think it's only because like even the slightest movement I could see, so it kind of looked like machines moving because they can't move very fluidly, kind of jittery.  Really very cool.
> Sorry kind of off-topic there.



sadly slowing down was the only thing that happened, but it was really, really cool. i'm surprised i acted casual, i didn't even tell my friends what happened. i just kept it to myself, i think mostly because i was afraid no one would believe me anyway so i didn't see the point in telling them. it felt like 30 seconds, but it was super slow as i mentioned so it could have been 5 seconds lol, there's just no way to tell. 

your experience seemed pretty awesome too, i like the feeling of slowing down so i can't tell what speeding up is like lol, but i imagine it was intense.

----------


## tommo

lol yeh I didn't tell anyone either.
It is pretty intense but not too overwhelming, just like woah this is weird lol
Not sure if I mentioned this but it's strange though because I get anxiety attacks and whatnot and still when this happened no panic at all.  Anyway cheers to us!  ::D:

----------


## ashberry

Hi. Interesting subject. I'm new here, and still trying to gain full lucidity after a good few months. ::roll:: 

But I can assure you there are beings, human or otherwize, that can manipulate your dreams. I didn't believe it was possible until I had a few encounters non-lucidly that showed me it was possible . They can be trained in energy work. Or from hidden mystery schools/meta studies
 I can also say that there are beings Working behind the scenes to guide you to safety and personal growth for both parties involved in conflicting and difficult occult/psychic dream situations. The more advanced ones will help you if your not fully equipped with dealing with more powerful forces, (DW?)especially if you get yourself unintentionally into a piddle, like I did,and haven't got the knowledge on what to do. I have had many shared dream experiences and psychic attacks ranging from full on mental pain by invisible beings(? NS) to astral attacks while sleeping, and malevolent thoughtforms, disguised, in order for you to approach it to attack you. I was a bit skeptical at first, thinking it was a aspect of myself, but the more things happened, the more I realized it wasn't me that was inventing these scenario's at all, and i got seriously disturbed and virtually went insane for a time(crying before bedtime, praying, not wanting to sleep,)  I hadn't a clue what to do, because I thought it was all my own mind creating it. The dream walkers(beings) that are mentioned, I have encountered are ok and some prefer to stay invisible and anonymous, they only tell you what you need to know. prefering to ask you questions. They can even force an outcome, telling you of what will happen later. Them guys are Hot. Especially to people like me who don't enjoy fighting. or go looking for one. 

ok, that's all I can think of for now except thanks for the topic, it certainly will play with your mind for a while, but if you suddenly wake up with any doubt at all that you wouldn't try and hurt yourself, and a gut feeling somethin' aint right, you just got nightstalked

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Hi. Interesting subject. I'm new here, and still trying to gain full lucidity after a good few months.
> 
> But I can assure you there are beings, human or otherwize, that can manipulate your dreams. I didn't believe it was possible until I had a few encounters non-lucidly that showed me it was possible . They can be trained in energy work. Or from hidden mystery schools/meta studies
>  I can also say that there are beings Working behind the scenes to guide you to safety and personal growth for both parties involved in conflicting and difficult occult/psychic dream situations. The more advanced ones will help you if your not fully equipped with dealing with more powerful forces, (DW?)especially if you get yourself unintentionally into a piddle, like I did,and haven't got the knowledge on what to do. I have had many shared dream experiences and psychic attacks ranging from full on mental pain by invisible beings(? NS) to astral attacks while sleeping, and malevolent thoughtforms, disguised, in order for you to approach it to attack you. I was a bit skeptical at first, thinking it was a aspect of myself, but the more things happened, the more I realized it wasn't me that was inventing these scenario's at all, and i got seriously disturbed and virtually went insane for a time(crying before bedtime, praying, not wanting to sleep,)  I hadn't a clue what to do, because I thought it was all my own mind creating it. The dream walkers(beings) that are mentioned, I have encountered are ok and some prefer to stay invisible and anonymous, they only tell you what you need to know. prefering to ask you questions. They can even force an outcome, telling you of what will happen later. Them guys are Hot. Especially to people like me who don't enjoy fighting. or go looking for one. 
> 
> ok, that's all I can think of for now except thanks for the topic, it certainly will play with your mind for a while, but if you suddenly wake up with any doubt at all that you wouldn't try and hurt yourself, and a gut feeling somethin' aint right, you just got nightstalked



are you positive that what you've experienced wasn't just simple sleep paralysis? did you wake up and see a figure stare at you or something, and you couldn't move? your descriptions are very vague, and you reached some far fetched conclusions. how do you know that they train for this? what is so important about terrorizing people while they're sleeping that makes them take these extreme measures just to do it (to strangers no less). also why don't these "good guys" take care of the problem at it's source? they can surely attack the "NS" directly, as oppose to helping the "victims".

----------


## ashberry

> are you positive that what you've experienced wasn't just simple sleep paralysis? 
> It was similar to sleep paralysis, but the person squashing me was someone I knew, I actually turned round as I was waking up to find his spirit on top of me as he was trying to squash me. Incidently, he had already stated what was going to happen on another forum, that afternoon, that we were both active on, but, I had not read it until I woke up because I was in bed asleep when he posted it. It was intentional, and pre-planned...and occured exactly as the thread stated almost to a tee. And I am not joking. 
> did you wake up and see a figure stare at you or something, and you couldn't move? 
>  Yes, But i could move, I am familiar with sleep paralysis, it was similar, but it was the other person on top of me that I saw that was causing it
> your descriptions are very vague, and you reached some far fetched conclusions. how do you know that they train for this?
>  They don't train for anything, they are just equipped with a intelligent brain, and enjoy seeking knowledge like most people, occult knowledge for personal growth and stuff...and are normal beings like me and you, that get caught up in misunderstandings, like normal egoic relationships do, But if it's someone you don't know, it could be about power, control, and domination, or something else I don't really know.  
>  what is so important about terrorizing people while they're sleeping that makes them take these extreme measures just to do it (to strangers no less).
> I don't know the answer to that, I can't do it.   
>  also why don't these "good guys" take care of the problem at it's source? they can surely attack the "NS" directly, as oppose to helping the "victims". 
>   These guys, They are beyond fighting, They know nothing is ever achieved by fighting, except  bigger fights, anyone who has gone beyond ego, don't use battle to defeat an opponent, 'cos they are wize enough to know they turn into the very thing they are fighting, or encounter it in another variation,.... whatever you fight you strengthen...and yes they do take care of the problem at it's source, they don't think it a problem, they intervene, but only if you don't know it's happening, or your unsure.  you never actually get to know what it is they do, Thats their secret, but you do get the idea they have, even though you don't directly know or see what they do, because something happens, and the next night they will tell you things in your sleep what to expect...it's really wierd, they have really powerful voices, it wakes me up instantly



Anyway, hope that helps, and I don't wish for you to get involved in anything like that, because it ain't nice, and i'm still not 100% it's over, because I have spotted him on here, and I do get scared from time to time, and if I disappear for a while, It's cos I get chicken(and so would you if you had what I've  had)

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Anyway, hope that helps, and I don't wish for you to get involved in anything like that, because it ain't nice, and i'm still not 100% it's over, because I have spotted him on here, and I do get scared from time to time, and if I disappear for a while, It's cos I get chicken(and so would you if you had what I've  had)



Thanks for answering most of my questions. I'm still a skeptic, but i don't doubt that this is real to you, but whether it's reality is a different story (i'm not calling you crazy btw.)
so who is this mystery man that can enter one's dreams on command? i would like to know so that i can challenge him  ::D: 
if he can enter my dreams and prove that it was him, than i would be very grateful even if it would be a nightmare (i really don't mind).

----------


## ashberry

Haha... No probs, FD,....But you might wanna ask yourself what reality is, how do you define reality?...and you won't find him, he will find you, if he thinks you need it.(or you piss him off :wink2:  )my experiences were mild I'm sure, in relation to others who have had worse, as I've read on this thread, from the Cusp, and Lex and Monkeylab and others, I suppose it's only a matter of time if you persue lucid/astral and other psionic stuff. So you shouldn't have to look too far for a scream or two. ::D:

----------


## ForgottenDream

The discussion about reality is a different topic, and one that i've had numerous times on this site lol. do you know this persons user name? i would be grateful if you told me, and again i want to challenge him. i don't believe in any of it, therefore i'm a perfect candidate for this experiment, and there is almost no chance of the placebo effect.

----------


## ashberry

Haha, your tooo keen u know that  ::D:  I admire your enthusiasm but....

careful what you wish for  :wink2:

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Haha, your tooo keen u know that  I admire your enthusiasm but....
> 
> careful what you wish for



yes, and i ought to be keen, with bold claims you have to have the proof lol. i'm starting to think you made this guy up. if he's real, can you just give me his user name? or are you going to keep running around in circles and give me some more advice?

----------


## DreamHerb

I have dream stalked before early in my life.... but realized there are far better things to do in my dreams.... so i guess im trying to instead use my dreams for good.... as they are a very good tool for teachings...

----------


## Gez

> I have dream stalked before early in my life.... but realized there are far better things to do in my dreams.... so i guess im trying to instead use my dreams for good.... as they are a very good tool for teachings...



oh be quiet, no you havent.

----------


## ashberry

> yes, and i ought to be keen, with bold claims you have to have the proof lol. i'm starting to think you made this guy up. if he's real, can you just give me his user name? or are you going to keep running around in circles and give me some more advice?



No i'm not giving anyones name....but you sound like you could do with getting your backside over on an occult forum and make some connections. Tell them you wanna be a dream warrior or want to be trained up as a dream ninja or join a fight club or whatever they call themselves. You got open mindedness and lucid skills, why not ?

----------


## ForgottenDream

> No i'm not giving anyones name....but you sound like you could do with getting your backside over on an occult forum and make some connections. Tell them you wanna be a dream warrior or want to be trained up as a dream ninja or join a fight club or whatever they call themselves. You got open mindedness and lucid skills, why not ?



give me the link to this "occult forum" at least, geez  ::roll:: 

if this mystery man scares you than you wouldn't hesitate to call him out. and don't say "oh, if i call him out he's going to really get me!", or you could say " i'm not the type to call people out"  ::roll:: .  i really do not believe in any of this, and i don't like being lied to, don't insult my intelligence.

Edit: you could just PM me to tell me his user name, eliminating all your excuses. and don't tell me he's psychic too and can tell if you PMed me his user name, that isn't going to cut it.

----------


## Eric

Whoah... So is this stuff actually real? Has anyone ever gone into someone else's lucid dream or just regular dream and proved it? By proof i mean the other person says that you popped up in their dream too. And how the heck do you go about doing it? It must be complicated.

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Whoah... So is this stuff actually real? Has anyone ever gone into someone else's lucid dream or just regular dream and proved it? By proof i mean the other person says that you popped up in their dream too. And how the heck do you go about doing it? It must be complicated.



what's complicated is asking the person who supposedly had the experience and having them give you non specific details, and asking about the details and not going anywhere but back where you started. in short, it's not real.

----------


## Eric

> what's complicated is asking the person who supposedly had the experience and having them give you non specific details, and asking about the details and not going anywhere but back where you started. in short, it's not real.



You're probably right, but that's no fun. Anyone who thinks that they've had one?

----------


## ashberry

> give me the link to this "occult forum" at least, geez 
> 
> if this mystery man scares you than you wouldn't hesitate to call him out. and don't say "oh, if i call him out he's going to really get me!", or you could say " i'm not the type to call people out" .  i really do not believe in any of this, and i don't like being lied to, don't insult my intelligence.



I'm not a member of any occult/mystics forum, so I couldn't tell you one, try western mysticism maybe, hermetic orders, rosy cross,cabala, etc,or just type in occult forums, have a shuftie around them.
If you don't believe me then that's fine, I answered your questions,in truth as far as I am aware.

----------


## legit

has anyone ever actually confirmed this was possible? i mean, how do you know that your actually in someone elses dream, it would feel the same as your dream!

----------


## erik212

I still hold my ideas that NS and DW are a load of bull. In my opinion, you have a very active imagination, or you would seem to project your energy and open your mind (naturally or intentionally) too much in public places. I can tell you that it is not possible for others to force their way into your mind or affect your energy, with the esception that you keep both your mind and body open. That or it could be a misinterpretation of your experiences combined with a placebo from reading about this ****.

----------


## Gez

Ive got a possible way to stop all the debate.


FUCKING PROVE IT.



Just throwing it out there.....

----------


## The Cusp

It's impossible to prove.  There have been many people who have claimed to have confirmed shared dreams with other people.  You either believe them or you don't.

Even if it's not true (which I think it is), it's still cool that DV has it's own little urban legend.

----------


## ashberry

Yeh 37,000+, but there's only one mind right? so how can we say were are really that seperate?

----------


## ForgottenDream

> Yeh 37,000+, but there's only one mind right? so how can we say were are really that seperate?



what?

----------


## tommo

yeh what the fuck was that about lol
ashberry you could at least give us the link to the forum you were on where the guy told you what he was going to do in your dream or whatever.

ForgottenDream you alright with starting a new thread in this section calling out all NS and DW to come into our dreams?  Sayin something like we are open minded and would like to see proof and we think they are weak as piss if the do exist lol.

----------


## lucid4sho

Isn't it great how this thread is never ending.

Although I'm extremely skeptical about this stuff, I don't think its a great idea to challenge anything that is supposedly harmful.

Especially since we don't know the nature of these supposed beings. If there is a night stalker, it may work by staying hidden and trying to suppress/end your lucidity, rather than trying to cause you nightmares or do psychic attacks at you. The whole thing is extremely far fetched of course but why take chances.

----------


## priestofmyownchurch

The topic of DW/NS reminds me of my crazy-ass ex-roomates.

Not only did they believe Vampires (or V's as they called em) and werewolves are real, they both thought there were a hybrid of both. They would tell me stories of how they saw them in random places, identified them as such (they saw the V's fangs or how some people smelled like dog hair), and attacked them, pulling off some Matrix-style jumps and kicks.

Not trying to piss anyone off, but it seems to be one of those situations here. Maybe, one person made it up, another mistook a DC for a NS or DW, and simply by hearing/reading about them everyone is making their own version in their dream.

Just a thought...

----------


## JET73L

> Not trying to piss anyone off, but it seems to be one of those situations here. Maybe, one person made it up, another mistook a DC for a NS or DW, and simply by hearing/reading about them everyone is making their own version in their dream.



That is/was my preferred theory. Still, worth keeping an open mind, as long as your brains don't fall out (that sounds like something an 80-year old would say).

Again, I renew what I said last time: If any dreamwalkers are here, reading this, I request that you find me in tonight's dream or, failing that, adream later this week, and 1. prove you exist, and 2. explain some DW/dreaming stuff. My personlity should be apparent enouygh that you don't need any sort of "true name." If any nightstalkers exist and are reading this, I request that you not interfere with my dreams. If you ignore this, so be it, just make sure I know you are a nightstalker and not a DC. If neither exist, I might at least get some cool dreams out of this.

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## ForgottenDream

> yeh what the fuck was that about lol
> ashberry you could at least give us the link to the forum you were on where the guy told you what he was going to do in your dream or whatever.
> 
> ForgottenDream you alright with starting a new thread in this section calling out all NS and DW to come into our dreams?  Sayin something like we are open minded and would like to see proof and we think they are weak as piss if the do exist lol.



yeah man, i'm up for that lol. sounds awesome. if you start one can you pm me a link to it? i'm actually really looking forward to something like that  ::D:

----------


## icephoinex

> I can only say this...IDIOT!!!BAKA!!!!MORON!!!!
> For now I think this is enough on that.
> 
> Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself.
> 
> You have no idea how many people that are either Night Stalkers or Dream Walkers are actually on this thread at this moment. God and I thought I had bravado when I walked into their camp, LOL!!!
> You got guts, I like that and I hope you kick some serious ass but I warn you, the N.S are masters of causing pain you can't even begin to comprehend...but hell...there are so few dreamers that have the guts to stand up to them I will take my hat off to you.
> Welcome to my war.
> 
> ...



You sound like a professional, but really how tough do you need to be. Dreams aren't ruled by strength, but creativity. Ill take you nightstalkers on.  2 years ago I met my first dream challenge. I really believed it was another person. I lasted about a month or so then they left. Reading all this stuff on nightstalkers makes me think that I need to open a can of ass whuppin on you nightstalkers (provided your reading this) ill take you on any day

----------


## Nazzul

> I can only say this...IDIOT!!!BAKA!!!!MORON!!!!
> For now I think this is enough on that.
> 
> Being a Night Stalker Hunter I would say you have made a very bad mistake...you will not be left alone now and they will keep coming after you until you manage to A: ban them from dreaming, B: handing them their ass on a silver platter, C: killing them, or my least favorite D: dying yourself



If this is true then I have eaten plenty of night stalker/ dreamwalkers in my day. haha

----------


## Eonnn

So how does one go about becoming a Nightstalker/Dream Walker/Rogue? where do i sign up?

----------


## Brainchild

> Probably just coincidence, but I make a cocky challenge like that, and that very night I get my ass handed to me in my dreams.



All the more reason to believe the most obvious, which is that dreams are no more than the result of the circuits and chemicals in your brain. I've found that, through evalution of my dreams over a period of time, good and bad characters in my dreams are simply representations of parts of my personality/temperment (everything from personal contentment to self-loathing). This is not to say that dreams are nothing. They are most certainly something as one is able to explore their dreams to aide them in their waking life, whether for very serious experiments or just pleasure.

----------


## tommo

> Isn't it great how this thread is never ending.
> 
> Although I'm extremely skeptical about this stuff, I don't think its a great idea to challenge anything that is supposedly harmful.
> 
> Especially since we don't know the nature of these supposed beings. If there is a night stalker, it may work by staying hidden and trying to suppress/end your lucidity, rather than trying to cause you nightmares or do psychic attacks at you. The whole thing is extremely far fetched of course but why take chances.



Well, that's me, always living on the edge  ::lol::

----------


## ubigcow

> Hey everyone, read through most of this tread(first 20 pages!) in the past hr and a half...and in conclusion I think there is no conclusion. Like most ideas people tend to fed off them...they develop and over time can slowly become real in a persons mind even though the initial idea may only have been something as small as coversation like "i saw something strange in my dreams last night..like a shadow person" ...a friend replys "yea thats weird" off to bed that night and they dream like always but with the idea of a shadow person sitting in they're mind,lone behold they too see a shadow character...the plot thickins...
> 
> Then on the other hand perhaps the people on here are meeting these beings..fighting, battling whatever and over time have developed more and more knowledge to tell they're story. Overcoarse every story starts small and with nobody agreeing untill some day your not the only one talking about it...
> 
> Well thats my 2 cents anyways and if people get a lil pissed off because I voiced an opinion in this thread where somebody actually said not to post comments if your not a believer..well thats just a ridiculous statement...its like saying don't visit the dreamviews website if you've never had a lucid dream..!



Read the Rules of the forums. It doesn't say you have to believe to post on the forums. Just that you have to believe to post on *THIS* forum.





> Well I think to become lucid there have to be several parts of the brain active, not when you become lucid they get active. I guess you would never ever be able to get lucid, because the part that would tell you "do a Reality Check" is inactive and therefor can't make you doing this.
> 
> As for the hallucinations. Don't you have to be able to use your senses to hallucinate? Well you have your dream senses, but those aren't real senses, they are just imagined senses. I guess that theory is busted ^^



Bad logic. Your dream senses activate the same part of you brain as the real senses. That is why freshly amputated people usually dream that they aren't amputated. There is also the affect (I forget what it's called) were the amputee thinks he still has that part of his body. Besides that, since you could say that the nerves that go to the brain are still there and being activated by something like regrown skin or something, most people have a chemical or something that paralizes them when they are asleep. At least when they are in REM sleep. That is what keeps them from acting out their dreams. Some people, especially old people, act out their dreams since they are not fully paralized. Therefore, your senses are still there, and you are using them. At least you are using the parts of your brain that sense stuff. Like when your alarm clock goes off and you try to put it out in your dream.


 ::banana:: I have read this entire thread. ::banana::

----------


## cirenosille

I just posted a thread that may relate to this.  The other night I had a dream that ended with a short conversation with someone (a female i'm fairly sure).  I asked about their path (religion, group, etc.).  They told me they were a bed fighter (i think), but when I woke up my mind interpreted it as Dream Warrior.  This was Tuesday night.

So is there any relation between Dream warriors and these dream walkers and night stalkers?

edit: forgot to mention that i haven't look farther than the first page, going to keep reading now.

----------


## tommo

Had you heard of these things before?
By bed walker she probably meant.... okay that doesn't work dw, my minds to dirty lol  ::lol:: 

ubigcow - Well done reading the whole thread lol.
The name for that is phantom pain.  Not sure if it really has anything to do with this though.

----------


## cirenosille

> Had you heard of these things before?
> By bed walker she probably meant.... okay that doesn't work dw, my minds to dirty lol



lol I can't blame you on that line of thought.  But no, i haven't heard of these names before, and this isn't the first time something like this has happened to me with dreams.  Maybe it's a subconcious thing, like i've heard the term/s before and it now surfaces.  

For instance: Several months ago I had a dream where a teacher figure asked me what i was reading as i handed her a book.  I told her "Dante's Inferno" but as far as i could recall at the time, i had never heard of the book before.  That led me to decide on going to school for english (long line of thinking cut short), but none the less it's one of the best choices I've made in a long time.

----------


## tommo

Yeh that kinda thing is very mind opening if you look at it without incorporating some sort of supernatural thing into it like some spirit was warning you about hell or something.  You just have to take it that your mind is telling you something in those weird scenarios.
I have come to the conclusion that our subconscious picks up and stores every little thing that we ever experience.  It's a useful tool to have access to.  Or at least better access.

Anyway, maybe you just scrolled over the topic that was talking about them (like the topic title) or saw it on a tv show.  I think someone mentioned that they were on Heroes.

But of course, a cigar is sometimes just a cigar; you could have just made that type of thing up yourself.  I know I thought about being able to do similar things when I was little.

----------


## ninja9578

I will MILD tonight, if any night stalkers want to challenge me, I'll see you in my dreams  ::evil:: 

 :bedtime:

----------


## Vorquel

Holy cow! I thought this was all just a ridiculous hoax or something, but now that I think about it, I remember a dream in which two dream stalkers may have challenged me. One was a very talented a coordinated male, and the other was a not quite as talented female. It was crazy. They both wielded very powerful handguns. I tried to wrestle the gun out of the guy's hand, but he always managed to fire all of his rounds before I could aim the gun at him. The girl wasn't as efficient at discharging her weapon, and I gained control of the gun with one round left in the chamber. Then the girl discovered my weakness and used it against me. (I am not saying my weakness; I don't need any more attackers of that variety.) The guy stood behind her knowing that eventually I would crack and fire at her. However, I somehow locked my attention on him and shot him. He looked so shocked that I could work passed my weakness and fire at the real threat. This is probably also the coolest fight scene I've had in a dream.

----------


## Xibran123

There's this guy on this forum that claims he's going to stalk me in my dreams. He told me this a while ago. He still hasn't appeared. Not going to say who, but I'm curious as to why they chose me?

----------


## tommo

Probs coz you were a nooob.  ::D:

----------


## Xibran123

At lucid dreaming? i'm pretty decent but this fool hasn't appeared yet. i've been waiting since like the summer.

----------


## tommo

Nah on the forum I meant.
You got 160 posts now and you said it was a while ago so I just guessed.

----------


## The Cusp

> For instance: Several months ago I had a dream where a teacher figure asked me what i was reading as i handed her a book.  I told her "Dante's Inferno" but as far as i could recall at the time, i had never heard of the book before.  That led me to decide on going to school for english (long line of thinking cut short), but none the less it's one of the best choices I've made in a long time.



I find it really hard to believe you've never heard of Dante's Inferno.  You must have heard it mentioned somewhere and it just stuck in your mind.  Inferno is just an attention catching word that is more likely to stick in your subconscious.





> Holy cow! I thought this was all just a ridiculous hoax or something, but now that I think about it, I remember a dream in which two dream stalkers may have challenged me. One was a very talented a coordinated male, and the other was a not quite as talented female. It was crazy. They both wielded very powerful handguns. I tried to wrestle the gun out of the guy's hand, but he always managed to fire all of his rounds before I could aim the gun at him. The girl wasn't as efficient at discharging her weapon, and I gained control of the gun with one round left in the chamber. Then the girl discovered my weakness and used it against me. (I am not saying my weakness; I don't need any more attackers of that variety.) The guy stood behind her knowing that eventually I would crack and fire at her. However, I somehow locked my attention on him and shot him. He looked so shocked that I could work passed my weakness and fire at the real threat. This is probably also the coolest fight scene I've had in a dream.



That doesn't really sound like NS style of control, plus I really doubt they'd "challenge" you.  They just come at you.

Imagine I'm sitting at a table with you and there is a butter knife sitting on the table.  Nothing really dangerous or threatening about it.  But then I pick up the butter knife and start slashing the air violently, making whooshing sounds as I swing.  You suddenly become aware of the weight of the metal knife, and that it has the potential to break bones.

That is a typical NS tactic.  Actually attacking you isn't really important.  By brandishing that butter knife with a theatrical flare, if draws you attention to how dangerous it could be, making it more real in your mind.  That's the real power they can have over you.  Hitting you with the butter knife isn't important at all, but implanting that scenario of danger is the real key.

So in order to defeat me in that scenario, you would have to learn to ignore my attempts at capturing your attention.  In order to counter attack, you have to come up with something to distract me from my crazy knife wielding, so that my focus is no longer on terrorizing you.

The victory condition in those types of dream battles is not how badly you pummel your opponent, but how completely you can distract them.  If you think you can just fight NS with super dream powers, you're not even playing the same game, and you won't stand a chance.





> There's this guy on this forum that claims he's going to stalk me in my dreams. He told me this a while ago. He still hasn't appeared. Not going to say who, but I'm curious as to why they chose me?



That would be Acillis.  Said he was coming for me to, and to watch out for anyone all dressed in black.  I'm still waiting.

----------


## CJ1145

So, Cusp, let me see if I get this.

The whole duel thing is psychological. If he were to do something like that with the knife, I would have to outdo him in some way such as, for example, flicking a brick building, and making it collapse. This would make me appear much stronger than him, and be able to harm him, right? So then he would have to outdo ME in some way. Am I in the ballpark there, or am I missing something?

----------


## The Cusp

It's not psychological at all.  It has to do with focus and attention.  If he doesn't even look at your building collapsing, then from his perspective it's completely irrelevant.  WHen I actually figured out how to fight back, it was a very quick series of back and forth feints, like a speed chess match.  You either deal with his move quickly or completely ignore it.  If it takes too much time to deal with his feints, then you are losing.  If you made the building collapse on top of your opponent, forcing him to deal with it, then that's like a point for you.

1. Everything requires your attention to exist

If you don't focus on his attack, it can't hurt you.

2. The more focus you give one dream element, the more related detail it creates.

The trick here is to come up with something so captivating, it just can't be ignored.  If you focus on something too much, it becomes your whole universe.  Like a out of control tooth dream.  THe more nasty detail you look at, the more you will find.  It just keeps pulling you in deeper and deeper.

3. Emotions are a powerful force in shaping your dreams.

This is why they usually attack with violence or scary stuff.  If they can produce a feeling of fear or panic in you, your dreaming attention will create corresponding things to drag you down.

It's not what they do to you, but what they make you do to yourself, and vice versa.

----------


## tommo

Cusp, you should really link people to your other thread or else they will think those three things you listed are fact.  Which they are not, they're theories.

Anyway.  The most obvious thing I could think of is to walk away.  Or just go, "wow that looks pretty cool".  "Can you show me how to do it?"

----------


## ubigcow

> ubigcow - Well done reading the whole thread lol.



Thank you.

Cusp, you changed your avatar. I like the new one, but what was the old one?

Back on topic, I believe that your subconsiousness keeps a lot of the stuff that you sense without you ever realizing that you sensed it. Therefore feeling that you have heard something before or that you have experienced something before is probably because of memories that your consiousness cannot retrieve but your subconsiousness does.

 ::banana:: I have read this entire thread. ::banana::

----------


## Unelias

Well there is lots of lore about dreamwalking. Shamans and witchdoctors cursing people in their dreams, driving people insane while they sleep, healing people through dreamwalking etc.

Again as my personality forces me, I don't ban this possibility. But in case it does exist it's some badass mojo skill  :Voodoo Doll: 

I have never met anyone who says they can do it or heard someone be able to do it.

----------


## esteban

This might seem a bit random but after reading this thread I just have to say..

The other night I met a girl in a dream who was in a rush to leave an elevator but I took her email address.. unfortunately I can't remember it and she wouldn't give me her number. This didn't seem like your average dream character... anyone wanna own up? :p

----------


## CJ1145

Oh, fine, you caught me.  :tongue2: 

lulz

----------


## Inner_Fears

I'm not english so forgive me for any mistake or misunderstanding!

I haven't read the whole thread so I'll just ask, couldn't the "Night stalkers and dream walkers" stuff just be a placebo and the people that appear on our dreams just be the results of our mind after we have read of this? Sorry but I found this hard to be true, though I would really like it to be!

Nights stalkers ruled by an Old lady which is evil? Kinda reminds me of the Drow, or dark elves of dungeons and dragons

----------


## spaceexplorer

Oh wow, suddenly I woke up and the world has turned into a bad hollywood film.

----------


## Phantasos

> I'm not english so forgive me for any mistake or misunderstanding!



All this stuff like "Night Stalkers" and "Dream Walkers" or "Inorganic beings" or something are trying to describe well-known phenomenon which every lucid dreamer faces sooner or later: 

SOME DCs ARE *SUSPICIOUS*  ::lol:: .

----------


## CJ1145

> I'm not english so forgive me for any mistake or misunderstanding!
> 
> I haven't read the whole thread so I'll just ask, couldn't the "Night stalkers and dream walkers" stuff just be a placebo and the people that appear on our dreams just be the results of our mind after we have read of this? Sorry but I found this hard to be true, though I would really like it to be!
> 
> Nights stalkers ruled by an Old lady which is evil? Kinda reminds me of the Drow, or dark elves of dungeons and dragons



Placebo effect? Most likely not. A lot of us had these experiences before we knew what Dream Walkers/Night Stalkers were. Heck, I had mine before I knew there was a term for Lucid Dreaming.

----------


## Black_Eagle

I'm not convinced that this isn't a construction of one's own mind.

----------


## The Cusp

> I'm not convinced that this isn't a construction of one's own mind.



No reason you should, there's certainly not anything on here that could be considered proof.

But I'm convinced.  Well, 99% convinced until I can verify shared dreaming with someone.  Haven't pulled off a decent attempt in a long time.

----------


## hellohihello

Wait is this like the spongebob episode where he walks into other peoples dreams?

IT'S REAL :O!?!?!?. It's our dream can't we control them? I think I have had this happen to me..
Edit: So people OBE and then walk into someone else's "Dream Cloud"

----------


## Paradox-db3

Quick question...

How do we know that night stalkers and dream walkers are not dream characters?  I'm not saying I don't believe, but I just want to know what the difference is.

__________________
__________________ Dream Tasks I Want To Complete and Master:

----------


## tommo

Apparently they're more cunning and smart.  They just stand out amongst normal DC's.  I'd have to agree with Phantasos though 



> SOME DCs ARE *SUSPICIOUS* .

----------


## EdwardStark

Kind of weird that no one can figure out this dreamwalking business.

----------


## Phantasos

> Kind of weird that no one can figure out this dreamwalking business.



It's a plot!  ::lol::

----------


## Lonyops

i dont care if this thread is dead, i want to re-animate it. i have some questions and details i would like to share about a Night Stalker I MET IN PERSON. (when i was in the army, he was a freind in bootcamp)

----------


## The Cusp

This thread will never die!  Do tell about your bootcamp friend.

----------


## tkdyo

omg this thread is still alive?!?!?!?!?  Insane.

----------


## Lonyops

well while i was in bootcamp my friend was telling me about he is a "night stalker" but he uses different terms then us, and view is alos a little different. he does more astral plain stuff then dreaming, but on the astral plain he is more like a sheriff, so to say. si in our terms he would be a "dream Walker" not a night stalker. anyways i was a little skeptical at first, so i told him to go int omy dream that night, and sure enough he did. we had "fireguard" togerther one night (jsut guard duty all night while everyone else sleeps) and we where sittin there and he can go into the astral plane on command, he did while i was watching. he can only go for 5 minutes, but his friend who is a "vessel" can go for as long as he wants. but its the same concept with the astral plane, if your soul takes enough damage you die, just like if your mind takes enough damage you die. he said he think i might be a "succubus", someone can leech of of people energy, but i never really try to do it as the one time i tried to do i sucked all my friends energy out and i dont wanna be evil (nor good). anyways, i can answer more questions but that is the very general broad-er-ni-zation??? of it. lulz.

----------


## blazekien11

In star wars You can protect your mind from telepaths by focusing on something else example

Vader tries to read Luke's mind but Luke imagines a metal wall blocking off his mind, Vader gets no where.

This may work in dreamland

----------


## sleepingdog

I'd just like to add my voice and say that this NS/DW explanation is the closest thing I've come to explaining my own experiences. So thanks for all that lex, sanz etc.

When I started having dreams about swords and monsters, and then noticing people and the strange things they did and said in my semi-lucid dreams, I looked for someone who had similar experiences, and this board has plenty of stories that are like mine. I believe I've had numerous encounters with NS, easily recognizing a strange presence that is very different than the rest of the dream. They are usually amused by my efforts, even when I soundly beat them, as I am thoroughly entertained by their vast and elaborate stories once I wake up.

If anyone who knows is still following this thread, can you tell me what's so important about a sword? or is it just the same as a gun and being able to shoot lighting from yer arse?

----------


## Desert Claw

dude. thats awesome
I haven't seen any dream walkers or night stalkers before
itll be good fun taking them on

----------


## Phantasos

> If anyone who knows is still following this thread, can you tell me what's so important about a sword? or is it just the same as a gun and being able to shoot lighting from yer arse?



Probably, it is easier to believe in. For example for me, complex weapons work rather unpredictable (one time gun works, other not). If you really believe in your gun, it should work too. Maybe it worth to make magical gun  ::D: .

----------


## ben505

ok i have some questions could you please answer the..

um when you guys talk about dieing you just mean in the dream right not irl?

soo DW and NW are real people?

who is the old hag

how would I join the DW

----------


## Desert Claw

well. that was fun
i fought an invisible guy last night
they were pretty good, i think i beat him with an uppercut because he stopped afterwards. thats if it was a guy

so i was thinking, how does a DW/NS know how to find that person?

----------


## Black_Eagle

So Cusp, you've been cheating on DreamViews, eh? http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=9894

----------


## The Cusp

> So Cusp, you've been cheating on DreamViews, eh? http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=9894



Was trying to find some more information on it.  I thought the atral projecting crowd might have had some insight or similar experiences, but they were no help.

----------


## Black_Eagle

> Was trying to find some more information on it.  I thought the atral projecting crowd might have had some insight or similar experiences, but they were no help.



That site is absolutely terrible. All their information pages present you with an error message XD.

----------


## EdwardStark

The "sheriff" idea makes sense. On a few occasions I believe that I managed to enter other folks dreams. Whenever I actually attempted to do it intentionally I was pretty much sternly told

"YOU SHOULD NOT BE HERE"

and more or less contained until I woke up.

----------


## Xaqaria



----------


## EdwardStark

That dude looks like he could use some aloe.

----------


## ray

lmao nice

i met a night stalker last night,well at least he said he was(to a point).i was having a regular non lucid dream where i was walking through the lunchroom in my high school. this guy with long  dark brown hair and freckels, with a plain white t shirt and jeans came out of nowhere and started attacking me.i became lucid and tried to blow him away like i do to any dc that attacks me but he just laughed and told me i couldn't kill him.i asked why not and he said we was a walker.i was confused because i had completely forgotten about night stalkers and crap like that but he explained that he stole my dream and was going to kill me.we fought and basically destroyed the school in my effort to get rid of this guy.he was insanely strong though and i couldn't beat him so i finally gave up and woke myself up.this guy whoever he was,was one of the strongest people i have ever fought.i put this here as a warning to stay away from this guy if you see anyone like him even if it is completely unlikely that any of you will see him.i'm not weak either.this guy seriously pissed me off.

----------


## The Cusp

> lmao nice
> 
> i met a night stalker last night,well at least he said he was(to a point).i was having a regular non lucid dream where i was walking through the lunchroom in my high school. this guy with long  dark brown hair and freckels, with a plain white t shirt and jeans came out of nowhere and started attacking me.i became lucid and tried to blow him away like i do to any dc that attacks me but he just laughed and told me i couldn't kill him.i asked why not and he said we was a walker.i was confused because i had completely forgotten about night stalkers and crap like that but he explained that he stole my dream and was going to kill me.we fought and basically destroyed the school in my effort to get rid of this guy.he was insanely strong though and i couldn't beat him so i finally gave up and woke myself up.this guy whoever he was,was one of the strongest people i have ever fought.i put this here as a warning to stay away from this guy if you see anyone like him even if it is completely unlikely that any of you will see him.i'm not weak either.this guy seriously pissed me off.



How many times do I have to say it?  You can't defeat them with physical attacks, the only way to beat them is to distract them.  You have to admit, using physical violence in a dream situation where it's inconsequential is pretty useless.

If your opponent is violent, give him something to fight other than yourself.  Or just flee into something that is highly distracting.  I instinctively retreat into white water rapids, and one NS complimented me on that maneuver.  The current, rapids and rocks just overwhelm your senses so that you can barely concentrate on anything else than staying alive, never mind stalking someone.

----------


## Geeome

I personally believe that everybody has been a dreamwalker / nightstalker, and I somewhat have my own proof. I posted it in this forum, but ill copy paste it here so you can see it comfortably:

"I was reading some peoples Dream Journals, and I was really suprised by the imagery I was getting. I mean REALLY suprised. I was able to predict exactly what happened next, and had a great memory of what I was reading, as if I had... read it before. And when I say impressed by the imagery, I really wasn't. Someone would say "A house on a hill in a field, where I had an adventure in a bog" And my mind would automatically associate it with yellow, dead grass, junk laying around (tires, etc) and a thin wooden board on the side of a gunky river going across. As I read on in this dream... I learned just that. Reading more and more different dream journals, I realized this continued to happen, except it got more precise to the point where just reading the title of the thread sparked a flashback with intense and vivid images. Also, when I say I remember it, I mean remember it like a dream. This concludes theory 1."

Although I myself have only been lucid once, I can vividly remember some of the dreams members of this forum have had. Also, I encountered what I now believe to be a Night Stalker in a dream when I was younger. Back when my brother lived with me, I used to envy the size of his room. I dreamed once that I was there late at night, watching his television. Suddenly, I sensed someone at the bedroom door, shook it off, and continued watching. Then, the man darted behind my chair. I dove off of it and jumped on the mans back, punching it relentlessly, doing no damage whatsoever. He was bulky, and dressed in what appeared to be a big black cloak with bloodshot eyes. Sort of what Sasori's body looked like when he was originally introduced in Naruto, except without a tail.

On a side note... I posted that dream here, too. In a thread where another user had a VERY similar dream. Also, I encountered another one, but this one didn't do much. I dreamed I was at my grandmothers wedding (who was still alive IRL) and this man was snickering in the trees. Now that I think about it, this is only a fragment of a dream, and he perhaps could have killed my grandmother.

----------


## Black_Eagle

Personally, I think all this Night Stalker/Dream Walker stuff is complete crap created by one's own mind.

----------


## EdwardStark

> lmao nice
> 
> i met a night stalker last night,well at least he said he was(to a point).i was having a regular non lucid dream where i was walking through the lunchroom in my high school. this guy with long  dark brown hair and freckels, with a plain white t shirt and jeans came out of nowhere and started attacking me.i became lucid and tried to blow him away like i do to any dc that attacks me but he just laughed and told me i couldn't kill him.i asked why not and he said we was a walker.i was confused because i had completely forgotten about night stalkers and crap like that but he explained that he stole my dream and was going to kill me.we fought and basically destroyed the school in my effort to get rid of this guy.he was insanely strong though and i couldn't beat him so i finally gave up and woke myself up.this guy whoever he was,was one of the strongest people i have ever fought.i put this here as a warning to stay away from this guy if you see anyone like him even if it is completely unlikely that any of you will see him.i'm not weak either.this guy seriously pissed me off.



Um alternatively you read all of this stuff and your subconscious encoded it and later released it into your dream? From what you've posted there's absolutely no way to discern that it was the influence of an outside source.

Sorry. There's nothing there at all.

----------


## hellohihello

*Spoiler* for _Scary image is scary_: 







> 








I was fine...

until I saw this

and I really don't get how this is real. I mean we all aren't asleep at the same time. You cannot die in your dreams either.

----------


## hellohihello

Skeptical hello is skeptical.

I would be quite interested if anyone entered my dreams and told me to become lucid *hint hint*.. then we can have a sword fight, explore together, master concepts together, just fun stuff.

Edit: Hey Cusp, have you ever done this?



also... I really do not believe this for various reasons but will keep an open mind.


edit again.... I guess it really comes down to this. If you believe in astral travel you are more likely to believe in this. If you don't, you think there isn't a chance in the world, just your subconscious

----------


## no-Name

Nothing is real. Not even your dreams.

Think about it, what could be the higher reasoning for all this? Why would people abuse their power to fight other dreamers?

Money. Dream stalkers are not a faction, they are a group, and a small one at that. They are assassins, and subtle ones at that. They are not trained, they are born. All of them are natural walkers. Lucid dreaming is a skill, anyone can learn it, and some are born with it. Walking, is not a skill. You must be born with it. DWs are defenders, guardians, nothing more. There is no old hag, there is no rouge faction, there is no leader. We are all masters of our own mind and no one can fully and completely control our dreams for us.

Anyone can be a defender, but no one is a walker. 

Walking, can never be learned. 

Nothing exists. Not even your dreams.

----------


## The Cusp

> I would be quite interested if anyone entered my dreams and told me to become lucid *hint hint*.. then we can have a sword fight, explore together, master concepts together, just fun stuff.
> 
> Edit: Hey Cusp, have you ever done this?



I've tried a couple of time, probably my best attempt was this one titled "Lucid Gathering"  http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...postcount=1165

My target wrote in their DJ that they had the feeling they forgot a really important lucid that night.  Closest I've come so far to initiating a shared dream.  I think the problem so far is that my targets just don't remember the dream.  Next time I'm going to make them wake themselves up and write it down.

----------


## hellohihello

> I've tried a couple of time, probably my best attempt was this one titles "Lucid Gathering"  http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...postcount=1165
> 
> My target wrote in their DJ that they had the feeling they forgot a really important lucid that night.  Closest I've come so far to initiating a shared dream.  I think the problem so far is that my targets just don't remember the dream.  Next time I'm going to make them wake themselves up and write it down.



You can try me if you want.. just don't hurt me or I will be forced to annihilate you. I remember most of my dreams in REM about 4 a night. Not sure how it's even possible though if everyone is on a different sleep schedule

----------


## Hukif

Even tough I believe in DS in some lvl, always wondered, why is it people can't beat them? In the few times (1 maybe 2) I recall the experience, I could easily harm the other dreamer, dunno about a NS tough, but even then I don't see how they hold more power than you in your dream.

----------


## The Cusp

> Even tough I believe in DS in some lvl, always wondered, why is it people can't beat them? In the few times (1 maybe 2) I recall the experience, I could easily harm the other dreamer, dunno about a NS tough, but even then I don't see how they hold more power than you in your dream.



Because they know everything in dreams requires your attention to exist.  All they have to do is ignore your attacks, and they become ineffective.  

You have to come up with an attack that can't be ignored for it to have any effect at all.  It's not about violence, you have to be clever.





> You can try me if you want.. just don't hurt me or I will be forced to annihilate you. I remember most of my dreams in REM about 4 a night. Not sure how it's even possible though if everyone is on a different sleep schedule



Sorry, my list of lucid tasks is way too long to be adding new ones.

----------


## hellohihello

> Because they know everything in dreams requires your attention to exist.  All they have to do is ignore your attacks, and they become ineffective.  
> 
> You have to come up with an attack that can't be ignored for it to have any effect at all.  It's not about violence, you have to be clever.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, my list of lucid tasks is way too long to be adding new ones.



I thought I was your long lost friend D: . Alright then I will haunt you! Muahaha

----------


## Hukif

> Because they know everything in dreams requires your attention to exist.  All they have to do is ignore your attacks, and they become ineffective.  
> 
> You have to come up with an attack that can't be ignored for it to have any effect at all.  It's not about violence, you have to be clever.



But in that case I wonder, how are they able to harm or make you notice them in the first place? the attention given to them is no more than that to a normal DC, and therefore should be unable to do anything, unless they tell you they are DS, I suspect that it must have an opposite, like attention and belief hold the same value in dreams, and therefore if you (Or them) believe in the harm it will happen, even if weaker.
That though, is not something I can say for sure, but still want to believe that <.<

----------


## hellohihello

> But in that case I wonder, how are they able to harm or make you notice them in the first place? the attention given to them is no more than that to a normal DC, and therefore should be unable to do anything, unless they tell you they are DS, I suspect that it must have an opposite, like attention and belief hold the same value in dreams, and therefore if you (Or them) believe in the harm it will happen, even if weaker.
> That though, is not something I can say for sure, but still want to believe that <.<



You took the words out of my mouth walms.

----------


## The Cusp

> But in that case I wonder, how are they able to harm or make you notice them in the first place? the attention given to them is no more than that to a normal DC, and therefore should be unable to do anything, unless they tell you they are DS, I suspect that it must have an opposite, like attention and belief hold the same value in dreams, and therefore if you (Or them) believe in the harm it will happen, even if weaker.
> That though, is not something I can say for sure, but still want to believe that <.<



Dreaming has nothing to do with belief, only attention.  Say you're about to open a door after being chased by werewolves in your dream.  In an effort to control the dream, you say to yourself "There are NOT going to be werewolves on the other side of this door."  You can try to believe it all you want, but when you open that door, there is most likely going to be werewolves.  Because you've invoked the image of a werewolf by saying there isn't going to be one.

The vast majority of dreamers don't understand how dream control works, and that where you direct your attention shapes the whole dream.  The only power NS have is the ability to direct your attention, and they take advantage of the fact that people don't understand how dreams work.

Directing people's attention is easy, and we do it all the time in RL.  Say we were having a dream scrap, facing each other.  I suddenly look behind you with a look of pure terror on my face, implying there is something horrible behind you.  Do you really think you could resist turning around to see what's there?  Easier said than done.  Even if I didn't really see anything behind you and was only acting, by invoking that feeling of terror, it sets you up so that your dream is likely to create something terrible.

And if you can't look away from that terrible scene behind you, it makes it more real from your perspective, giving it power over you.  It's nothing I did, it's what I make you do to yourself.  

Take Nightmare on Elm street as an example.  When Freddy walks along stalking someone, scraping his claws against the wall with a horrible sound and sparks flying, what he's doing there is focusing your attention on the claws, making them real in your dream.  

Regular DCs react to your attention and your emotions.  NS have their own attention and emotions, and the difference is very clear.

Here's an RL example of directing attention.  Now I like messing with kids heads, I'm cruel that that way.  Say I was baby sitting a bunch of kids, and something fell over in the closet making a loud bang.  If I ignore it, it's no big deal.  But... If upon hearing the bang I say "Oh no... the monsters are back!!!" in a terrified voice, it suddenly directs the kids attention to the closet, and on monsters.  Maybe I would back away from the closet in terror, or maybe I would run up to it and push against it to make it look like I'm trying to stop something from getting out.   You get the idea.

----------


## hellohihello

> Dreaming has nothing to do with belief, only attention.  Say you're about to open a door after being chased by werewolves in your dream.  In an effort to control the dream, you say to yourself "There are NOT going to be werewolves on the other side of this door."  You can try to believe it all you want, but when you open that door, there is most likely going to be werewolves.  Because you've invoked the image of a werewolf by saying there isn't going to be one.
> 
> The vast majority of dreamers don't understand how dream control works, and that where you direct your attention shapes the whole dream.  The only power NS have is the ability to direct your attention, and they take advantage of the fact that people don't understand how dreams work.
> 
> Directing people's attention is easy, and we do it all the time in RL.  Say we were having a dream scrap, facing each other.  I suddenly look behind you with a look of pure terror on my face, implying there is something horrible behind you.  Do you really think you could resist turning around to see what's there?  Easier said than done.  Even if I didn't really see anything behind you and was only acting, by invoking that feeling of terror, it sets you up so that your dream is likely to create something terrible.
> 
> And if you can't look away from that terrible scene behind you, it makes it more real from your perspective, giving it power over you.  It's nothing I did, it's what I make you do to yourself.  
> 
> Take Nightmare on Elm street as an example.  When Freddy walks along stalking someone, scraping his claws against the wall with a horrible sound and sparks flying, what he's doing there is focusing your attention on the claws, making them real in your dream.  
> ...



*question*


So say if I have a NS problem. I just make something for me to focus on and I am fine? Why would we even see him if we don't have our attention on him in the first place?

----------


## The Cusp

> *question*
> 
> So say if I have a NS problem. I just make something for me to focus on and I am fine? Why would we even see him if we don't have our attention on him in the first place?



Not at all.  You're not going to be able to focus on watching a movie if I'm flicking boogers at you or trying to light your hair on fire.

You see him because he makes you focus on him.  That's what they do.  It's a shared dream, he's there with you.  _His_ focus is on _you_.  You need to break his focus on you, and put it on something else.  But in order to do that effectively, you first have to understand how your attention works.

----------


## Hukif

So to say, the one with the greater focus wins? Because even if they focus on you and try to gain your attention, that doesn't mean they will be able to do it, especially since different people is attracted to different things.
That is the only part I don't get, unless their attention on you is capable of affecting you (or they know you), I see no reason for a DS to do anything sucefully in your dreams.
Also, I'm pretty sure many may be able to focus on something silly while the end of the world is happening right in front of them due to dream logic <.< (Unless the DS made you lucid, which returns to the first part)
Thanks for your time answering these questions.

----------


## hellohihello

> Not at all.  You're not going to be able to focus on watching a movie if I'm flicking boogers at you or trying to light your hair on fire.
> 
> You see him because he makes you focus on him.  That's what they do.  It's a shared dream, he's there with you.  _His_ focus is on _you_.  You need to break his focus on you, and put it on something else.  But in order to do that effectively, you first have to understand how your attention works.



Have you ever tried laying on the ground? Your eyes would be against the ground so you won't be able to see any attacks thrown at you.

----------


## The Cusp

> Have you ever tried laying on the ground? Your eyes would be against the ground so you won't be able to see any attacks thrown at you.



It's not only visual.  You also have smell, touch, sound.  Lying on the ground won't help if you can hear a snarling tiger standing over your body, or feel the cold metal of a knife against your back.  

There is no one thing you can do, both parties have infinity at their disposal.

----------


## hellohihello

> It's not only visual.  You also have smell, touch, sound.  Lying on the ground won't help if you can hear a snarling tiger standing over your body, or feel the cold metal of a knife against your back.  
> 
> There is no one thing you can do, both parties have infinity at their disposal.



Hmm this is where I get confused. You said it requires attention. How can you feel something that you don't see?

----------


## What??Me??

Because you expect to feel it?

----------


## The Cusp

Attention doesn't rely solely on visual input.

----------


## blazekien11

I think there may be a slight chance our minds are playing tricks on us

but if it isn't can someone come to my dream I need to experience it to be sure and if you do please don't kill me to harshly.

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## rahim9876

not to be ignorant but it just seems like people are making up bunch of bs that has to do with dreaming. im not saying everything that is out there beyond dreaming is bs. I do keep an open mind
This just sounds way too...feels like....video games. i mean come on there is an alliance of hunters and night walkers and dream walkers just think about it. Why would anyone even waste their time doing this stuff. If you think you've experienced it, its probably just a DREAM and a reflection of your own thoughts. If you dont believe in them, u dont encounter them. If you do then u encounter them.

in my opinion its just sounds wayy too goodd to be true

----------


## Hukif

I suppose it can be coincidence/trick/whatever, but to think everyone had their experience after reading about it, that is a lie <.<
Also, who said this ability is easy or anything? Just especulations on something that is not even proven lol

----------


## Bladekillua

I have!!! but i dont remember much i have to look back at my dream journal!!! But i cant right now cause i dont feel like it!!!

----------


## CeDeR

Nice read...Saw all this before in a game "Neverwinter Nights:Mask of the betrayer" it has a dreamwalker character.

----------


## Man of Shred

A few people have PM'd me asking about my dreamwalking experiences. well I have compiled a story of my experiences. it thouroughly explains Why I stopped doing it. I would appreciate no one else PM'ing asking about it.

At the time I was reading Carlos Castaneda - The Art of Dreaming. I was following the guidelines he layed out in the book which he called "The Gates of Dreaming". 

After Finding my hands in my dreams a few times but not having any solid lucid dreams. I sought out some forums. 1. I found based on toltec nagualism, Where a self proclaimed Nagual was hosting a shared dreaming thread. 2. Was a website called Dreamviews. Which deals with mainly lucid dreams, and excludes much of psychic dreaming and shared dreaming. On the nagual Forum. It was set up so that users invited to the forum were to post on a thread declaring their Intent to dream with the rest of the group. 

The statement was simply "I give you permission to dream with me" Everyone else would acknowledge with a "Welcome you have my permission to dream with me". Now, I'm not sure wether it was the Naguals psychic energy (which he had in surplus) or the collective intent of the group that allowed the dreamsharing possible. I Have tried with others since, but with minimal dream synchronicity. Anyway, on one particular month The entire group decided to meet on a beach in their dreams. That month nearly Everyone had a dream of meeting the Nagual on the beach. Everyone saw him as a blond man with a medium build, he was older looking but young at the same time. Also during this time, i had set up a dreamsharing experiment of my own with a girl from the Dreamviews forum. WE both made the declaration of intent as well. In a bit I'll share the beach dream I had. 

But first I'll explain what was happening at dreamviews (DV for short) at the time. I befriended this girl DV and started an experiment with her. In the first week I dreamt I was lost in calgary, for some reason my attention was drawn to a yellow truck. it was flopping all over the parking lot. It almost seemed to be alive. A few nights later the girl (Which I'll call 'x'" i was trying to dreamshare with had a Lucid dream that was cut short because she was distraced by Yellow Trucks. A minor Synch. BUT in the next week the synchronicites were increased. 

I would have a dream about a Dog or a wolf, then she would dream about a dog and a wolf. And on the night that I had my beach dream, she had a beach dream with the same blonde man. Here is the beach dream i had. Take note of all the dreamsigns. 

 Quote:I became lucid. the dream suddenly felt real. i opened the door to the outside and realised that i actually feel with my hands the texture of the door. I excitedly ran up to a huge window and just spent minutes just feeling the window and admiring how REAL it felt. i could even differentiate between hot and cold and where peoples breath had warmed spots on the windows.

 I suddenly woke up on a beach. i looked around stunned, this wasn't my apartment. but it looked like somewhere in southern ontario (i've never been south of mississauga so how would i know what southern ontario is like?) the sand was about 5 feet away from a 4 ft high sandcliff. past the cliff was grass. i looked to my right and in the distance i saw some people coming. i climbed up the cliff and it seemed the cliff wasn't solid. but i managed to make it up. i found a path that looked like it hadn't been used for weeks so i tried to walk along it. further in the grass i saw a brown dog or wolf prowling. he was running in circles chasing something. he looked freaky so i jumped back down the cliff so he wouldn't spot me. The people i saw earlier were a few minutes walking distance away. Perhaps i could ask them how to get home from here. but i tried my luck and climbed back up the cliff almost falling down again. i didn't hear the wolf. so i started walking.

 I spotted him AGAIN. and he seemed really angry i knew if he spotted me he would take his anger out on me. i went back down the cliff again. The people were there. there was a man that appeared to be in his early 30's but his maneurisms were that of someone much older. He had a light medium build, with short blonde hair. with him was a stunning blonde woman that seemed to be his wife. they sat down a few yards away. i think they had children playing in the distance but i payed no attention "'scuse me" i said. "This may sound strange but i was dreaming and then i woke up here! WHERE the hell am i exactly?". 
the blonde woman ignored me but the man gave me a scrutinising look and said. " HUH? son! how could you NOT know where you are". he then smiled and laughed. "dreaming and then woke up here?!?!?" he laughed again. 

"Uh yeah, i was having the most amazing dream and then i woke up here. And i don't know where here is..." - end Quote

 On the same night X had a dream on a beach with the same blonde man, with a different woman who asked her to look after their kid. So in essence, We were both in the same dream. She was just down the beach in my dream she appeared as a child looking after the other kid. After the nagual left them alone he then walked towards me where we had my embarrassing convo. some specifics were different - In her dream the woman was brown haired adn the nagual had a slight beard. In my dream she was blond and the nagual was clean shaven. Both of us had concluded it was the same man and the decription of the beach was the same. And for some reason the nagual had decided to keep us separate.

 This is where it went downhill: Due to the experience I gradually became obssesive about X. And, since she was only a 3 hour drive away, We both thought it possible to meet someday. So, I decided to consult an elder woman on the nagual forum and told her all about what was happening so far. She told me, that me and that girl were akin to family in a past life. That's why it made it so easy for us to get dream syncronicities. So, that added to my obsessiveness.

 For two weeks my dreams went downhill. Our dreams would still synch. But I also got very vivid dreams of meeting x. And whenever I met x in the dreams, she seemed to be evil and had little respect or friendliness towards me. In one dream she would insist i buy her treats and stuff and then run off in a limo. (Limos were also a common dreamsign in X's dreams. she was usually picked up by her dream lover, which i suspect was some astral entity with the mindset of "3rd density girls are easy").

 But also sometimes the dreams were wonderfull. We would both send messages on dream TV.'s (another shared dreamsign) she would write love letters to me. I should also mention I saw ehr face in a T.V. screen before i actually saw her picture. My heart skipped a few beats when i saw her picture and saw it was the same picture from my dream.

 On Retrospect. Our higher selves were trying to connect on the astral plane via dreaming. I think that the times i really did view her dreambody (or astral body) it was always with a barrier we both had to overscome. ie The nagual keeping us separate on a beach, and being behind T.V. screens. And the times where I thought I saw her, was either my unconcious manifesting my fears, or Some other Entity feeding off my energy since I exerted so much when she was on my mind (hey, Free lunch). Unfortunatly I interpreted the Negative Dreams as her real Higher self . 

To make matters worse I would dream Of standing over her bed - Then she would wake up in the night feeling a presence in her room. As the weeks went on I became more obssessive about her - Wishing I could overcome the barriers and find out what was the truth. I would like to say right now that I have never stalked anyone or would ever dream to. But slowly the obsession began giving me thoughts and urges that were terrible towards her. I knew if I kept up this and, If i were to give in those urges, I would become the very thing I would most fear. I came to the conclusion that I could not allow for that to happen so I decided to quit the experiment and stay away from her. 

Around the same time I had lent her the Carlos Castaneda book of dreaming (This will be an importance piece later on). Anyway, To end the experiment i would need to reverse my intent to dream with X. I ended up doing a mock sorcery spell. In one of the CC books a Nagual tells carlos to write his notes with his fingertips instead of his pen - As it would be the perfect 'not doing' for him ("not Doing" Is a Shamanic way of briefly getting into a higher conciousness state by deliberately doing things backwards. ie putting on your left shoe first instead of your right shoe first.) So i wrote on a piece of paper with only my fingertip something to the effect of "X no longer has my permission to dream with me" I then took it out to my balcony and burned it, waving all the smoke up into the air. I then emailed X my formal goodbye, not really explaining why, but making it clear it would be a good idea for her to stay away. She still emailed me back thogh saying, she had a dream of watching a TV screen with a beach. There were words scrolling across the screen saying "Stay out Staw away."

 I then consulted the elder lady from the nagual forum again, Telling her what had just happened. She told me to at least try to explain to X what happened adn to apologise. So i tried to. But X stopped responding to me (just as I'd wished earlier.) I guess by then she was percieving me as being what I had feared before of becoming. Over a 6 month period It didn't get any easier. Almost everynight before bed, just when i was on the verge of sleep, X's Avatar would flash into my mind jolting me awake. And when i dreamt She was always there taunting me (The dream entities i suspect). In the dreams she did her best to create drama, laugh at me, and do disturbing things. This went on for a long time. I was almost suicidal and considered councelling. This made my recovery very difficult. 

 I figured I Would need some of her energy to complete the barrier I had tried to set up. So eventually, I convinced her to send the book i had lent her back to me. I figured since she was reading that book around the same time I cut her off, she would have left some energy in the book directed towards me. (not conciously of course, since the book would remind her of me and what i did she would have had some upset towards it). And I was right: 

 When i got the book in the mail, If i held it, My hands would violently shake.When I put it up on the bookshelf in my room, i could feel it staring at me at night with the worst intent. It scared the hell outta me. So after a week of this. I Saged the book and burned it. Then i went to sleep with the intent of finding her dreambody to tell her to reverse her own intent (Her higherself would have to obey my commands Since, in dreaming anything you clearly yell out in your dreams will manifest to some extent). That night I dreamt I was in front of a TV. screen with the words scrolling across "Get out, stay out." I have never dreamt of x since. 

And my obsessiveness vanished. Afterwards, X left the DV forum about a year later. We stayed out of eachothers' way, in that time. I guess in the midst of all my craziness to rid myself of the dark obsession I either Angered her or scared the hell out of her (without meaning to of course), Because one of her friends at the forum began IM'ing me Death threats and calling me Scum of the Earth on the forum. The moderators dealt quickly with this. I found out she had been telling people that I was continuously harrassing her (Which doesn't make sense because I ended the interaction and respected her wishes after I apologised and got my book back).

 I have since lost interest in logging my dreams and trying to become lucid. I have tried to dreamshare with others on occassion with little success. Every once in a blue moon I'll become lucid and my Higher self will yell X's name, when that happens my concious self kicks in and wakes me up (I have to keep my end of the bargain.) Now why am I telling you all this?To get it out. I have never told this story to anyone in it's entirety. 

What I have learned: 

- I have a dark side that Is a part of me yes, But I must always keep it in check. To quote a Vulcan master "You must control your negative emotions or they will control you". 
- Drama is best kept on the TV screen instead of in your own life. 
- When something remarkable happens to you, Treat it with love and respect. Don't give in to fear.

----------


## CeDeR

The power of the mind...Its an interesting story thnx for sharing.

----------


## dray1968

Whats the purpose of a Dream walker and a Dream Stalker?

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## Man of Shred

> Whats the purpose of a Dream walker and a Dream Stalker?



Why does a Dog like it's balls? 'Cause he can.

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## dray1968

But what do they do to you in the dream?

----------


## Man of Shred

> But what do they do to you in the dream?



 Some just observe, Others teach or give lessons to your higher self, and others are there for your energy... They are like Energy vampires. They need your energy to perform their tasks.

----------


## dray1968

??? How do they steal your energy?

----------


## Man of Shred

> ??? How do they steal your energy?



IDK, they just do. How does a drama queen maintain drama? by making it.

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## The Cusp

Stealing energy?  Don't go making up more BS for this!  It's bad enough we have the made up factions, for which there has been no proof, nor even any dreams to suggest such a thing.  Never even seen a hint that they are after energy.

Why would they do it?  Simply because it's the best practice you can possibly have at controlling your dreams.  There is just some fundamental things about the interaction in shared dreaming that makes it a great learning experience.  

Once you get good at controlling dreams, DCs cease to pose any challenge whatsoever, which gets a little boring.  It could be just to keep things exciting.

----------


## Man of Shred

well cusp. I have had experience with entities, or scouts that have tried to feed on my energy.

 And i agree dream sharing is an amazing experience. You've had your experiences and I've had mine.

----------


## The Cusp

Oh, Ranma!  Didn't recognize you!  Just be clear that you met scouts or inorganic beings.  I'm not arguing the existence of those things, just want to make the distinction that NS are real people.  Don't want to confuse the two.  Apples and oranges...

----------


## Phantasos

> Some just observe, Others teach or give lessons to your higher self, and others are there for your energy... They are like Energy vampires. They need your energy to perform their tasks.



Actually, according to the definition given by topic starter these are not DS (or NW), as both term mean lucid dreamer who is walking into another dreams, and you probably talk about "inorganic beings" (using Castaneda's terms) which were defined as entities coming from another "immaterial" world, not ours.

UPDATE: *The Cusp* was first. It is important to make distinctions between different conceptions whether they true or not  ::wink:: .

----------


## sleepingdog

I'm just gathering possibilities for the (NS/DW) as not DCs. Like dude said up there, you have your experiences and I got mine. so.
They can be; some parasite with feeding habits through dreams and/or another person in your dream, a group of them, something transdimensional, alien or other. 
Their agenda may include; being scary, watch you for some nefarious reason, tell you important things, recruit you, gain something from the control of your dreams, have fun.

i'm sure i missed something, add as you like.

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## Phantasos

> I'm just gathering possibilities for the (NS/DW) as not DCs.



Then you should use another word. NS/DW were defined by topic starter as real people, so it is better use different words for different phenomena, just for the sake of clarity, or no one will understand what about talk is.

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## oniman7

Well, whether they're real or not, I am issuing... not so much a challenge. More of an announcement of my entry into the world. Whether you are real DW or NS or whatever you are, or just a figment of my imagination, I will welcome you with open arms. Teach me, and I will teach you. I'm interested in a little sparring, some dream mapping, etc. (ooh! Maybe I can be a cartographer for them? Or I'll just be a creepy stalker. Sorry. It's late and I'm hyper for some reason.). There. I feel better now. Hopefully, my subconscious will realize that for what it is, and I will get an interesting dream tonight.

EDIT: Just drank half a glass of orange juice, and going to bed in 5 minutes. Results tomorrow.

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## Vira

I've read it Ranma and I must say, I feel it is necessary to talk to my friend about this. She has had alot of experience. Hell, she's the one that got me interested into LD's and Shared dreaming....and other paranormal activities...Or should I say dragged?

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## Man of Shred

> I've read it Ranma and I must say, I feel it is necessary to talk to my friend about this. She has had alot of experience. Hell, she's the one that got me interested into LD's and Shared dreaming....and other paranormal activities...Or should I say dragged?





Yeah, by all means. I may be interested to try this again someday. Now that I know what to look out for...

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## The Cusp

So is this the biggest thread on DV yet or what?  It's gotta be close!  If not the biggest, I'd wager it's certainly the best.

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## oniman7

Well, some weird dreams, but nothing with the NS/DW. I was hoping my subconscious would at least make them up, even if they weren't real. By the way, in Senseless Banter, there are threads with over 100 pages (this has 38 per my settings)

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## Vira

> Yeah, by all means. I may be interested to try this again someday. Now that I know what to look out for...



What brought this on again, might I ask? O_o?

----------


## Black_Eagle

> So is this the biggest thread on DV yet or what?  It's gotta be close!  If not the biggest, I'd wager it's certainly the best.



Nope. Biggest thread is over 10,000 replies.

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## Man of Shred

> What brought this on again, might I ask? O_o?



 I didn't say soon. The syncs i had were amazing. I would like to experience more. and see how far it can go.

----------


## Songbird

so, I think everyone should read my thread above this, because theres a guy that claims to know all about this subject in a book.

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## Man of Shred

> so, I think everyone should read my thread above this, because theres a guy that claims to know all about this subject in a book.



sounds like a crock of shit. I don't believe everything i read.

----------


## Songbird

> sounds like a crock of shit. I don't believe everything i read.



Hey, neither do I. Did you read it? Did you even LOOK at my thread?
You have to understand it before you make a judgement, my friend.

----------


## Man of Shred

> Hey, neither do I. Did you read it? Did you even LOOK at my thread?
> You have to understand it before you make a judgement, my friend.



you said yourself it was badly written and something about an astral person writing it. sounds too far fetched.

----------


## Songbird

yeah, maybe. But the things he talks about directly corrospond with the subject, so I thought I'd bring it up

----------


## sleepingdog

thanks Songbird.

to anyone who hasn't had some dream like this stuff, are all your dream characters the same or do you sometimes see some 'special' one, even in lucid?

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## The Cusp

> yeah, maybe. But the things he talks about directly corrospond with the subject, so I thought I'd bring it up



Dude!  That book is a treasure of a find for this topic.  It's the first real thing that actually suggests there are organized groups of dreamwalkers or NS.   And I absolutely love the concept of "Blade Warriors", if only because it sounds so much like my own dreams.  Now I just gotta find a lich to fight.  I really hope that lich stuff turns out to be true, I seriously want to fight one really really really bad!

And the timing is good too, and it ties into the inorganic beings as well Man of SHred just brought up.  I'm totally willing to consider attacks from whatever non humans  now.  If fact, if that book is right, I had one last night.  If only I had read the descriptions of them the night before, I might not have ran away.  I usually fight anyone even in normal dreams, but this was one intense knife chucking SOB!   I also now recognize many obvious ones I had previously considered normal dreams.

Identifying those helps me distinguish that what I consider NS dreams were in fact real people.  Quite simply, they fell for things that anything which lived in the astral realm wouldn't care about in the least.  Plus they weren't after my energy, just my attention.  Our exchanges were almost playful with lots of back and forth action, kind of like tennis.  Not at all like those other ones, I never would have learned jack shit from interacting with those whatever you want to call them.  

That book has so many parallels with Castanada's work, yet very different in it's approach.

As the author describes dream combat in that book, a sword is a better weapon than a shotgun, and wrestling is a better weapon than a sword.  Actually, he says wrestling is the ultimate weapon.  And it makes sense from what I understand of dream control.  You basically invoke systems or archetypes, and the simpler and more defined that archetype, the more reliable it is.  Shotguns require ammo that can run out, can misfire or jam, powder can get wet.  Swords can break.  But if you know yourself and are confident, you are the ultimate weapon.  I'm almost ashamed to admit how much I enjoy crushing skulls with my bare hands in dreams.

The author claims having a strong self-symbol is a very important part.  I kind of understand the concept, but don't ask me to explain, you can read yourself.  I think that might be the key to maintaining your lucidity for longer periods of time.  If I understand what he's saying in the book, unless you can maintain lucidity after your dead, then you don't get to reincarnate.  Only hardcore sword warriors like myself are reincarnated, the rest of you are just trash spontaneous consciousness.  That's what it says in the book.  You see why I like it?  I could have titled my dream journal "slice and dice".  

Now as the author of that book explains all that giving the reader the option to chose whatever means of combat that suits them, even though wrestling is the obvious choice.  Now Castaneda only described what was happening to him in his books, he really didn't understand what was going on, but his teacher did.  So when Castaneda encountered an inoganic being with his teacher Don Juan, the old shaman told him it was a life and death situation, and if he didn't wrestle it, he would die!  While not actually explaining much, it effectively trains Castaneda to use the best methods.  

Also, according to Castaneda, when those non human being take energy from you, you get some of their energy in return, which is essential for dreaming.  But that could have just been another one of his ploys, which was really his version of dream control over reality.  The problem with castaneda's work is that people underestimate how wily Don Juan was, and over estimate how much Castaneda understood.  The quality of castaneda's work lies in his ability to to describe what he experienced, which give accurate portrayals of what's possible.

I guess I fell for his trick as well, because my very first lucid dream, I encountered what I thought might have been an inorganic being and wrestled it to the ground.  I was always kind of embarrassed by that dream, because by freudian standards, I wrestled a naked guy to the ground.  But he was a dragon first, and only morphed into a man to fit through the door.  There was nothing sexual or even human about him.  All I could think about was that I wanted this fucker's dark energy for dreaming.  Behaved just like in the books, but then again I was in the middle of reading them.

That dream always truck me as odd, but I was willing to dismiss it as a normal dream.  But after reading that Astral Combat, from what it says in there, it does make sense that one would come after me on my very first lucid.  I only wrestled that guy as a last resort because he had me cornered, after many epic failures trying to deal with that dragon.  Couldn't summon a sword, couldn't use magic, and then I had no time to do anything but run.   Still, for a first lucid, I considered it great fun.

----------


## Songbird

awesome! Someone that thinks this is awesome too!
I actually DID find a "lodge" for the practice on the net, and I e-mailed the person in charge to join.

Heres the site, its called the "abode of the lion".

http://www.nolava.org/spiritualwarri...arriorhome.htm

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## The Cusp

> awesome! Someone that thinks this is awesome too!
> I actually DID find a "lodge" for the practice on the net, and I e-mailed the person in charge to join.
> 
> Heres the site, its called the "abode of the lion".
> 
> http://www.nolava.org/spiritualwarri...arriorhome.htm



I really hope this place is like fight club for dreams.

----------


## Man of Shred

Interesting cusp. I often practice a kung fu in my dreams. I always beat the shit out of DC's really easily, they are always suprised when i fight them lol.

----------


## Songbird

lol, I think its more for helping people who are oppressed by entities or feeding off their energy.
But I've come across some stuff in my other thread above that has to do with creating a stadium that two people can fight in. But apparently human to human is really rare.
But if you just wanted to... that would be sweet. Maybe you could dreamwalk into someones dream and beat the shit out of them, lol.

But, then again, it would be more fun just to fight for real.

----------


## The Cusp

Some more combat tips from that  book:

As for having a strong self symbol, the author claims that most people don't have a very good idea of what they look like from behind.  We just don't see ourselves from that angle very often, and as a result, our archetype of schema of ourselves is pretty weak or undeveloped in that area.  Which makes our backsides kind of fuzzy or unstable in dreams for anyone who would happen to be looking at it.

That makes your back a weak spot, and those entities like to attack from behind.  Which again fits the dreams I've had.  Most of the dreams I might consider attacks by entities, they've had me on the run, with my back to them.

Another interesting parallel with Castaneda's work it that in his books, he mentions that the soles of the feet are a weak spot on the energy body.  And if you consider the previous explanation as what makes a weak spot on your dream body, it makes sense that the soles of the feet will be very undefined and thus a major weak spot.  More so than your back.  I can't think of any other spot on my body that I'm less aware of.  Again Castaneda's work lacks the theory, but it contains a wealth of experience, and makes perfect sense in the context of that Astral Combat book.

To develop a strong self symbol, the author of Astral Combat recommends a mirror meditation, where you look at yourself in a mirror in a dark room with a candle or small light source.  The dark and candle are only to lessen the influence of your surroundings, so that you only see yourself, and don't associate any of your surroundings or posessions with yourself.

He also claims stuff like flying isn't good, as it's a form of denial.  I either didn't get that part very well, or didn't want to.  I like my super powers.  If denial works, then I'll be the queen if I have to.

----------


## Phantasos

> Another interesting parallel with Castaneda's work it that in his books, he mentions that the soles of the feet are a weak spot on the energy body.  And if you consider the previous explanation as what makes a weak spot on your dream body, it makes sense that the soles of the feet will be very undefined and thus a major weak spot.  More so than your back.  I can't think of any other spot on my body that I'm less aware of.  Again Castaneda's work lacks the theory, but it contains a wealth of experience, and makes perfect sense in the context of that Astral Combat book.



According to Greek mythology, the hero Achilles was invincible, except one weak spot - his heel.





> According to a fragment of an Achilleis— the Achilleid, written by Statius in the first century AD, and to no other sources, when Achilles was born Thetis tried to make him immortal by dipping him in the river Styx. However, he was left vulnerable at the part of the body she held him by, his heel. (See Achilles heel, Achilles' tendon.) It is not clear if this version of events was known earlier. In another version of this story, Thetis anointed the boy in ambrosia and put him on top of a fire to burn away the mortal parts of his body. She was interrupted by Peleus and abandoned both father and son in a rage.

----------


## The Cusp

> According to Greek mythology, the hero Achilles was invincible, except one weak spot - his heel.



I think the point of that story is not so much about the heel specifically, but how it lacked the proper attention, which is what made it weak to begin with.

----------


## Phantasos

> I think the point of that story is not so much about the heel specifically, but how it lacked the proper attention, which is what made it weak to begin with.



Yes, I understand it. I just found this coincidence interesting. Seems like mythology may take very deep roots in dreams (NDs and LDs), so it is amusing when some bits of ancient knowledge match more modern one.

----------


## Nicky the nodreamer

i think i mea a NS read my thread called Grrrr! it will explain the dream i dont want to retype bad times >.<

----------


## carLito

i have many different lucid dreams, most nites i dream and am still aware of my surroundings - i only sleep 6 hrs at a time and often have dreams where my deceased father (3/19/04) is playing an active role, and it doesn't seem like he is dead in my dream - i don't act like he's been gone, i'm just like "hey wutz up?" i also have been dreaming of deceased pets, these dreams are somewhat recurring in that the characters are there but i am in a different location or situation and am always in control, experiencing all 5 senses...

i have experienced some of the NS & DW's, and both are afraid and intimidated by me - guess that makes me a rogue or the chuck norris of dreams...when i die in my dreams, i get right back up - i have been staked throught the heart and stood right back up and the next morning i felt like somebody punched me in the chest...i had a monty-python dream where i was the black knight who lost all his limbs and when i woke up i actually checked to see if i was intact, and indeed i was but my arm had fallen asleep...

i also have dreams that i'm playing a gig and my dad and deceased pets and relatives are there, i have normal everyday dreams and when i wake up the things i dreamt actually happen, i freak people out a lot...

i have flying dreams, swimming dreams, sometimes i dream that i drank a lot and wake up hungover even tho i only had 2 beers the nite before....i can also re-enter a dream and pick up right where it left off, sometimes days afterwards...does these things happen to anyone else?

so yea to stay on topic i have met the NS's, they're a bunch of fags who need a roundhouse kick to the face....is my dad a dreamwalker? are the pets? we addressed this issue earlier about whether spirits dream, but since they are pure energy then it does make sense they can enter ur sub-concious or concious, i talk to my dad all the time, i hear him warn me about stuff the split-second before it happens....

i also usually dream in full color, if not then key people and objects will be in color and my point of view changes from first to third a lot, like i'm watching and living a movie...

anyone remember spongeDream Walkerpants? the episode where spongebob invades other people's dreams...

----------


## Nicky the nodreamer

i dont want to sound stupid but it feels like i have been in other dreams before trust me it is wierd i one time was dreaming about killing this kid i hate then the next day the place that i hit him he was complaining about (bad grammer sorry)

----------


## carLito

i think i had an encounter with a nite stalker last nite...went to bed around 11pm, i woke up around 4am, went back to bed around 5:30am and awoke around 8:30am - normal sleep patterns for me...

my dream had me and a few of my cousins standing around in my grandparent's house, grandma was in the kitchen as usual and grandpa was crashed in his chair. we wanted some candy in the jar sitting next to him on the shelf which would require me to lean over him and get it without waking him. since i am the favorite it was my job, so i proceeded to go for it and when i did he said "don't fucking wake me up or i'll kill u." without opening his eyes or moving his lips. i grabbed the candy and jumped back, looked at my cousins and said "that's not our grandpa" and someone - not sure who - replied "ur right, it's not" and the others kinda had a worried look on their faces. i opened up the jar and we proceeded to munch down on orange slice candy and gumdrops and lemondrops, yum. i went to the bathroom, turned on the light, used the bathroom, checked my hair in the mirror - i had dreadlocks, the tips were dyed blue, i had my earrings in and my eyes were really green. i turned off the light and exited the bathroom and jumped into another dream.

my grandpa passed in '94, he rarely cussed, was very loving, not a violent bone in his body but he would defend himself if needed, only raised his voice when i was in imminent danger and would give me the shirt off his back - my dad was the exact same way. grandma passed in '98, she was a very loving and religous person, always cooking, sassy southern kinda girl. the cousins were my close ones i hung out with a lot, but i don't remeber who all was there and we were all the age we are now, although i felt like i was a kid stealing candy from the jar - they always had a good stash. i wasn't surprised when the light worked or me taking a leak (i used to have a problem with dreaming i was peeing and actually doing it in my sleep, got it under control) but i was surprised about my appearance - i keep saying i'm gonna put my piercings back in and haven't, my hair is almost in dreadlocks but it's not quite there, i could see the dreads really well, they looked good - and my hair is blonde on the tips, but i am thinking about dying it blue - and my eyes change color but are usually green which means i am happy...

nite stalker?

----------


## The Cusp

Doesn't sound like it.  You just got freaked out when you saw your grandfather's dead body. There was no attack or anything in that dream!

----------


## carLito

his lips didn't move, his eyes never opened, the body was breathing and he was snoring - and it wasn't his voice and my cousins reacted to it too...ima try to figure it out tonite, i can usually re-enter previous dreams where they left off, or recall dc's - not the same dream either, not a dream memory - should be fairly easy since i have been thinking about it all day...

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## The Cusp

> his lips didn't move, his eyes never opened, the body was breathing and he was snoring - and it wasn't his voice and my cousins reacted to it too...



I know three year olds who are badder than that.  From your description, it all happened like a normal dream.

----------


## sleepingdog

> I know three year olds who are badder than that.  From your description, it all happened like a normal dream.



not necessarily. I've had dreams where not-DCs were happy enough just to stay in the background and play that kind of role. Only the dreamer would be able to say, and we'd have to rely on his ability to distinguish one from the other (like do you get scared easy?)

----------


## The Cusp

> not necessarily. I've had dreams where not-DCs were happy enough just to stay in the background and play that kind of role.



And what role is that?  Watching you eat candy and play with your hair?  To what end?  

Just seems like a very random dream to me, with your attention jumping around from one thing to the next.

----------


## LoverbeanS

I'm very interested in seeing if this is possible...oh i might make some vain attempts to get into my bf's dreams tonight...catch him with another girl...and join in :wink2:

----------


## sleepingdog

> And what role is that?  Watching you eat candy and play with your hair?  To what end?  
> 
> Just seems like a very random dream to me, with your attention jumping around from one thing to the next.



sorry cusp, i got nothing for you. If you're one to believe in non-DCs in your own dreams, that alone would bring up a host of questions that are hard to answer. Maybe they're just getting to know you, or just waiting for an opportunity to do something. I've 'chased' one or two that didn't want to be found, who were perfectly happy observing or lightly playing the dream stuff. Can you tell when there's one in your dreams, I wonder, it's not always apparent to me. I don't think they are always looking to meet or fight. dunno about his dream, or anything else for that matter.

----------


## carLito

Originally Posted by The Cusp:
  I know three year olds who are badder than that. From your description, it all happened like a normal dream.

i was about 3 when i first remember my cousins getting me to do that...but in my dream we were all the ages we are now and my grandpa would NEVER have said that to me especially in that voice...

----------


## Captain Frapo

I feel I've encountered NS quite a lot, although they've appeared in very bizarre manners. 

In one dream I was walking through the rain down a sidewalk when a limosine pulled up next to me, and a few men in dark suits jumped out and forced me into the back. There were other men in dark suits, as well as a few other people they had apparently taken off the streets. On one side of the car the 'innocents' were laying back, as if they had been drugged or tranquilized. I was pretty in shock at what was going on, and I lost some of my strength, which allowed the men in dark suits to hold me down easier, (granted they had to sit on my chest)

They forced me to watch what they were doing to one other person, to which they took a massive hypodermic needle and syringe filled with 'something' and injected the shit right into the other person's brain. The person had been fighting it, but once the plunger was pushed, he was 'serene.' This scared the SHIT out of me, and I continued to fight harder as they pulled a syringe over to me. 

It took all of the men to hold me down, 7 or 8 of them, crammed in the back of this limo... and they brought the syringe and stuck the fat needle directly in the middle of my  brow ridge, right where my Third Eye is, stuck it deep and pushed the plunger. The sensation I felt is nigh indescribable, I would have likened it to a potent heroin dose (or at least as my mind perceived what a massive dose of heroin might feel like, since I've never actually tried)

I went limp as cosmic sensations overcame my entire being, and I felt failed.

----------


## The Cusp

> I feel I've encountered NS quite a lot, although they've appeared in very bizarre manners. 
> 
> In one dream I was walking through the rain down a sidewalk when a limosine pulled up next to me, and a few men in dark suits jumped out and forced me into the back. There were other men in dark suits, as well as a few other people they had apparently taken off the streets. On one side of the car the 'innocents' were laying back, as if they had been drugged or tranquilized. I was pretty in shock at what was going on, and I lost some of my strength, which allowed the men in dark suits to hold me down easier, (granted they had to sit on my chest)
> 
> They forced me to watch what they were doing to one other person, to which they took a massive hypodermic needle and syringe filled with 'something' and injected the shit right into the other person's brain. The person had been fighting it, but once the plunger was pushed, he was 'serene.' This scared the SHIT out of me, and I continued to fight harder as they pulled a syringe over to me. 
> 
> It took all of the men to hold me down, 7 or 8 of them, crammed in the back of this limo... and they brought the syringe and stuck the fat needle directly in the middle of my brow ridge, right where my Third Eye is, stuck it deep and pushed the plunger. The sensation I felt is nigh indescribable, I would have likened it to a potent heroin dose (or at least as my mind perceived what a massive dose of heroin might feel like, since I've never actually tried)
> 
> I went limp as cosmic sensations overcame my entire being, and I felt failed.



 
I hate to keep bursting everyone's bubble, but that doesn't sound so much like any kind of attack.  Mainly because I've never heard of an NS of IB attack where they attacked in groups like that.  It's usually always a single person, would be too hard to organize everyone in a dream.  And sticking needles in people's brains is just the sort nefarious behavior you would expect from men in black, which to me indicates it's a regular dream.

That said, the needle to the third eyes does sound a little strange.  And as far a dream combat tactics go, a swarm of anything is super effective.  Be it a swarm of bats, rats, bees, or 8 MIB.  You can't focus on any one thing and it scatters your attention, so maybe it was some kind of attack.

The only way to know for sure is to learn how dream works, or how they form in response to what you have your attention on.  Then look for exceptions to those rules.  I only learned how to do that _after_ my NS encounters.

Plus I still stand my the method of pointint your little finger at something in a dream and declaring your intent to see it's energy, which nobody has bothered to try yet.  It works.  If your target has an energy body, it's more than a dream.  But 99.998&#37; of the time, you target will disappear into mist.  
I'm not asking anyone to believe me, believing or not believing without trying to find out for yourself is stupid.

----------


## Phantasos

> I feel I've encountered NS quite a lot, although they've appeared in very bizarre manners. 
> 
> [...]
> 
> I went limp as cosmic sensations overcame my entire being, and I felt failed.



This dream is very interesting but as *The Cusp* said it is not the work of Dream Walker (i.e. real people). But it is very common theme: experiments in the labs, syringes into some parts of bodies, being held in some kind of strange facility... This dream is archetypical (and on DVs I found quite a few) and it is representation of some kind of internal process in our brain. One of the modern occult views on this subject is that:

_They patch our code while we asleep, and we see this like such kind of encounters!_ 

There is a problem with *them* of course  ::D: , but actually it may be a representations of some changes in the brain or behaviours' or traits' patterns. Try to find was something in you "changed"? Have you lost interest to something, or acquired new ones?

----------


## carLito

nice interpretation phantasos...

----------


## IndigoGhost

I have been following this thread, And i do not balieve. 

Anyone that would be willing to help me balieve drop me a PM, I am always interested in new things.

Or hell, Just come visit me in my dream if you can, Ile kick your ass  :smiley: 

But really drop me a PM if you would like to enlighten me more.

----------


## Massacre

I was once contacted by what I believe was a ream walker. He offered to train me and then introduce me to the council.

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## The Cusp

There is no council.

----------


## Skydreamer707

Awesome! I believe in it....kinda.I dont know, but all this sounds too REAL. too many people describe it similarly... i HOPE its real!!!! would make reality like 10 times more kick ass. hmm well COME AND GET ME IF YOU CAN!!! hell i cant even remember my dreams lately so this may be interesting if i do tonight.... (only for DW tho NS would probably scare the hell out of me!  ::embarrassed:: ) Night stalkers sounds like a group of sick people  :Eek:  an the Old Lady? LOL reminds me of yoda in star wars. So wait if dream walkers exist then why am i hearing about them now? are they a hushhush organization? and whats their purpose? if its to fight back againest night stalkers then...... whats the night stalkers purpose? i just dont get it? why would anyone want to form a group to attack people in their dreams?

----------


## Massacre

> There is no council.




Im not sure about that part, he really confused me as I had no clue who this guy was. He said if I did not join him I would face great hardship at the heads of the stalkers. I had no idea who the stalkers were then but now I think he may have been talking about the NS

----------


## hellohihello

> Awesome! I believe in it....kinda.I dont know, but all this sounds too REAL. too many people describe it similarly... i HOPE its real!!!! would make reality like 10 times more kick ass. hmm well COME AND GET ME IF YOU CAN!!! hell i cant even remember my dreams lately so this may be interesting if i do tonight.... (only for DW tho NS would probably scare the hell out of me! ) Night stalkers sounds like a group of sick people  an the Old Lady? LOL reminds me of yoda in star wars. So wait if dream walkers exist then why am i hearing about them now? are they a hushhush organization? and whats their purpose? if its to fight back againest night stalkers then...... whats the night stalkers purpose? i just dont get it? why would anyone want to form a group to attack people in their dreams?



Supposedly, night stalkers try to get us to react and emotionally harm us by pain felt in dreams. Dream walkers stop them. I'm still skeptic but it would be pretty intense if this was/or is real

----------


## Skydreamer707

thats so weird.... a couple of days after i posted that challenge i had my first nightmare in like 5yrs an at the end of it a Odd DC (he stood out for some reason, like normally i can predict what DC's will do but i had idea what he would do next...it bugged me and he just seemed...hmmm how to say it? out of place?) stabbed the guy chasing me in the neck, and cut me out of a net trap.... ummm LOL possibly a Nightstalker defeated by a dreamwalker?! F**kin EPIC!  ::muffin::  i hope it was, that would be purty cool  :superman:

----------


## BigFan

> thats so weird.... a couple of days after i posted that challenge i had my first nightmare in like 5yrs an at the end of it a Odd DC (he stood out for some reason, like normally i can predict what DC's will do but i had idea what he would do next...it bugged me and he just seemed...hmmm how to say it? out of place?) stabbed the guy chasing me in the neck, and cut me out of a net trap.... ummm LOL possibly a Nightstalker defeated by a dreamwalker?! F**kin EPIC!  i hope it was, that would be purty cool



The reason you had that dream is because you wanted to meet one and as a result you set yourself up, so, you mentally prepared yourself to meet one and dreams work on exceptations. The rest is history!

----------


## Massacre

I hereby issue a request to any nightstalker or dreamwalker to enter my dreams tonight and make me lucid. If you are able to accomplish this tonight or tommorrow night I will be fully convinced of your existence and show you only respect by not bothering any of you anymore. But if you do not I shall regard you as a hoax and abandon all belief. 


Perhaps I am not in a position to make demands. But alas, I demand onlly to see the true power you hide behind your masques and facades and shadows.
I want to see how deep the LD rabbit hole really goes.

----------


## Skydreamer707

so..... basically your saying, i just dreamed i met one? hmmmm thats completely lame  :Sad:  wait then how do you know if you really met one then? an you just didnt dream of meeting one?

----------


## BigFan

> so..... basically your saying, i just dreamed i met one? hmmmm thats completely lame  wait then how do you know if you really met one then? an you just didnt dream of meeting one?



That's a guess on my part. I am saying that if you dreamt of one BEFORE you issued a challenge or even knew about this, then its more credible, because, AFTER you issued the challenge, your brain might have created the type of DC that a dream walker or night stalker is like, since, you were somewhat expecting to get a visit  :tongue2:

----------


## Memento

> I hereby issue a request to any nightstalker or dreamwalker to enter my dreams tonight and make me lucid. If you are able to accomplish this tonight or tommorrow night I will be fully convinced of your existence and show you only respect by not bothering any of you anymore. But if you do not I shall regard you as a hoax and abandon all belief. 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I am not in a position to make demands. But alas, I demand onlly to see the true power you hide behind your masques and facades and shadows.
> I want to see how deep the LD rabbit hole really goes.



What type of reasoning is that? Assuming these do exist, what makes you think that they would even hear or read that challenge? It just seems like an indirect way of forcing disbelief to me. If you were serious about researching them, if that's what you are doing, it isn't exactly wise to set such a time limit. 

Just my thoughts.

----------


## Massacre

> What type of reasoning is that? Assuming these do exist, what makes you think that they would even hear or read that challenge? It just seems like an indirect way of forcing disbelief to me. If you were serious about researching them, if that's what you are doing, it isn't exactly wise to set such a time limit. 
> 
> Just my thoughts.



And I appreciate your thoughts. You indeed have a point about the time limit, I just really want an LD tonight so I figured this would be an extra help. Also all my attempts to find anything like the NS and DW in my research have failed. Direct contact is the only way to know more. My time limit was indeed foolish, but that may give me an advantage. i.e. If a NS obeyed the time limit it may rush them to get into my dream. A hurried an anxious opponent is much easier to defeat than a calm collected one. Thats assuming they react the violent way, i hope they won't.

----------


## Memento

> And I appreciate your thoughts. You indeed have a point about the time limit, I just really want an LD tonight so I figured this would be an extra help. Also all my attempts to find anything like the NS and DW in my research have failed. Direct contact is the only way to know more. My time limit was indeed foolish, but that may give me an advantage. i.e. If a NS obeyed the time limit it may rush them to get into my dream. A hurried an anxious opponent is much easier to defeat than a calm collected one. Thats assuming they react the violent way, i hope they won't.



I see your point but I don't think that most aspects relating to pseudo-dream worlds and entities can be brought to a logical conclusion without some serious, in-depth research. That, and by the very nature of what we're assuming is existing, I really think it would work in their advantage to remain undiscovered to those that intentionally search for them. I could obviously be wrong, but I'm interested in finding out if there is any basis in truth for these entities.

In most cases, it's likely just self-deception, but I've read accounts that might indicate something deeper at work - whether supernatural or preternatural. Even if it turns out to be nothing in the end, I don't think people can find a real answer using standard research methods.

----------


## The Cusp

I hereby declare myself the resident DV NightStalker.

I'm done trying to explain how to differentiate between regular DCs and real people, because nobody listens.  What's more, nobody puts any effort into finding out for themselves, and it makes me sick.  

Please note that I said NightStalker and not DreamWalker.  Anyone who wants to learn what dreaming is really about can learn the same way I did.  The hard way.  I will terrorize and torment you until you have no choice but to learn dream control.

But I won't do any real physical harm that carries over into the waking world.  I could, but won't unless you really piss me off or someone calls me a liar, in which case they will wake up with a limp.  And that's not something I'm going to teach to anyone.

I can tell you you're dreaming, show you how to tell I'm a real person, I can even stop you from waking up.  Actually, at some point I'll probably force you to wake up just to ensure that you remember the dream.

I only have a few lucids per month, so be patient.  

No scardy cats please.  And most of all, don't expect me to show up _just_ to make you lucid.  That kind of lazyness really gets on my nerves.  I'm not doing this to be friendly, but because every single thread on DV sucks ass these days, and it seems that nobody knows jack shit about dreaming.

So, any challengers?

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## BigFan

> I hereby declare myself the resident DV NightStalker.
> 
> I'm done trying to explain how to differentiate between regular DCs and real people, because nobody listens.  What's more, nobody puts any effort into finding out for themselves, and it makes me sick.  
> 
> Please note that I said NightStalker and not DreamWalker.  Anyone who wants to learn what dreaming is really about can learn the same way I did.  The hard way.  I will terrorize and torment you until you have no choice but to learn dream control.
> 
> But I won't do any real physical harm that carries over into the waking world.  I could, but won't unless you really piss me off or someone calls me a liar, in which case they will wake up with a limp.  And that's not something I'm going to teach to anyone.
> 
> I can tell you you're dreaming, show you how to tell I'm a real person, I can even stop you from waking up.  Actually, at some point I'll probably force you to wake up just to ensure that you remember the dream.
> ...



Your lying, 100% sure of it, lol, JK of course. I would like to take the challenge, but, I have a long way to go before I become lucid at will, since, I've only had 1 LD so far and that was accidential. If I can become lucid a couple of times a week, then I'll definitely take you up on the challenge. I have a hard time remembering dreams which is probably the reason that I can't become lucid that easily. Pretty annoying stuff as well, dream recall that is  :tongue2:

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## panta-rei

> I hereby declare myself the resident DV NightStalker.
> 
> I'm done trying to explain how to differentiate between regular DCs and real people, because nobody listens.  What's more, nobody puts any effort into finding out for themselves, and it makes me sick.  
> 
> Please note that I said NightStalker and not DreamWalker.  Anyone who wants to learn what dreaming is really about can learn the same way I did.  The hard way.  I will terrorize and torment you until you have no choice but to learn dream control.
> 
> But I won't do any real physical harm that carries over into the waking world.  I could, but won't unless you really piss me off or someone calls me a liar, in which case they will wake up with a limp.  And that's not something I'm going to teach to anyone.
> 
> I can tell you you're dreaming, show you how to tell I'm a real person, I can even stop you from waking up.  Actually, at some point I'll probably force you to wake up just to ensure that you remember the dream.
> ...



Challenges should be sent as a private message. With that, I close the thread. If any one disagrees, send me a PM.

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