# Off-Topic Discussion > Extended Discussion > Inner Sanctum >  >  Alchemy??

## SaMaster14

Well... I know shows like Full Metal Alchemist and everything are obviously very fictitious... but what do you all thing about actual spiritual alchemy, supposedly studied by many eastern philosophers?

What about the alchemic symbols and actual transmutation circles? 

I've always been interested in the topic, but I've never been able to find any real useful information about it... so please discuss it here  :smiley:

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## BigFan

I personally think it's a very interesting subject but as you mentioned, not much info on it  :smiley:

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## Dannon Oneironaut

We think of alchemy as a bunch of medieval pseudo-chemists trying to make gold, but this is a metaphor for spiritual alchemy. Sure, there were probably some people actually trying to make gold out of lead, but that is impossible.

In alchemy, lead represents the gross matter of the body, or of a plant. Mercury represents the seed, or the semen. Sulphur represents fire, Salt represents Earth, Water or alcohol or vinegar represents water, I forgot what air is. Gold represents the purified essence. 

They used chemical processes to distill and purify the essence of a plant in order to make medicines and youth elixirs. These medicines and elixirs acted on the subtle elements in the body to bring about youth and longevity and a spiritual quickening.

Also, the process was used within the body to distill spirit from the sexual energy. In India there are still alchemist yogis who treat mercury in such a way that they can eat it without getting sick, but in fact live for hundreds of years. Arsenic also. I am not sure how they go about going about doing this, but it is researchable. But I would actually try to learn from a real alchemist before trying it! There are yogis who don't eat or even drink water except a few drops of this mercury once a year. 

There is an alchemist society here in the States also that exists in order to further the cause and keep the knowledge alive. I forgot what they are called. I can look in my book when I get all moved in and unpacked to my new house.

This is very interesting subject. Anybody else know anything about it?

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## BigFan

hmm, is this the same as the old medicine where they only used natural products to make medicine or am I confusing this now with something else? I find using natural products to make medicine fascinating unfortunately, I don't there are much books on that  :tongue2:

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## Dannon Oneironaut

What do you mean by natural? Everything was natural then. But of course if you think that mercury, sulphur, colloidal gold, colloidal silver, etc. as unnatural, since it is not plant based, then no. But it is, of course, natural.

Also they distilled cell salts out of plants. And that is very interesting stuff.

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## BigFan

> What do you mean by natural? Everything was natural then. But of course if you think that mercury, sulphur, colloidal gold, colloidal silver, etc. as unnatural, since it is not plant based, then no. But it is, of course, natural.
> 
> Also they distilled cell salts out of plants. And that is very interesting stuff.



What I mean by natural is from the environment, bascially from nature, but, considering that mercury, etc.... can cause problems, so, yes, I guess plant-based, unlike today where all meds are chemically based as in synthetic and made in the lab, etc....

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## Merro

As a fan of Fullmetal Alchemist my self. I don't think real alchemy exists. And I highly doubt it you can use Alchemy to pull up poles and stuff from the ground like Edward does, etc. One day in my History Class. My teacher was talking to us about Alchemy. She said people have tried using alchemy but failed. Well that's just my opinion any way. I didn't say I didn't believe in Alchemy. I'm saying I doubt it exists.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

Oh, you guys are talking about a cartoon with magic powers. Yeah, that doesn't exist.

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## flyinghawkins

Alchemy is a process of refinement by reducing a substance to its essence in order to purify it.

A good example is the reducing of plant cells to salt... the salt represents a piece of the essence of the plant. Similar physical essences may be combined in different ways to achieve seemingly miraculous effects.

However, spiritual alchemy is where it's at. It is the refinement of the human spirit from base matter to its fullest spiritual potential. 

This is where I feel the reference "lead into gold" comes from. Many think that alchemy is literally turning the physical stuff of lead into the physical stuff of gold. But what makes alchemy so mystical is that a great deal of it is metaphorical. 

That is, lead represents the weight of the carnal pieces of Man and gold is in effect his realized, "purified" form.

I'm inclined to believe that physical alchemy is not possible without following the path of spiritual alchemy first. They apply to each other in a way that is inconceivable without first going through the proper transformation yourself. And that requires a lot of work.

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## SaMaster14

> Alchemy is a process of refinement by reducing a substance to its essence in order to purify it.
> 
> A good example is the reducing of plant cells to salt... the salt represents a piece of the essence of the plant. Similar physical essences may be combined in different ways to achieve seemingly miraculous effects.
> 
> However, spiritual alchemy is where it's at. It is the refinement of the human spirit from base matter to its fullest spiritual potential. 
> 
> This is where I feel the reference "lead into gold" comes from. Many think that alchemy is literally turning the physical stuff of lead into the physical stuff of gold. But what makes alchemy so mystical is that a great deal of it is metaphorical. 
> 
> That is, lead represents the weight of the carnal pieces of Man and gold is in effect his realized, "purified" form.
> ...



I really like this definition! thanks for sharing!

Btw, Dannon and Skarr: I wasn't talking about the anime, or the actual physical transmutation of lead into gold, I was speaking about spritual alchemy which was a MAJOR practice in old eastern philosophy, and supposedly is still around today. I know that the actual anime isn't real...

Oh and Dannon, can  you elaborate on the Alchemy society in the US? And can you give me info on those Indian Alchemists who transmute mercury? I'm interested to see the evidence of that...

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## flyinghawkins

@ SaMaster14,

You're welcome!  :smiley: 

If you are really interested in spiritual alchemy, I definitely recommend you look into the Tao of ancient China. It provides a good condensed version of what you'll find in the other eastern philosophies minus the extra fat. There's no such thing as a cure all religion, of course... every path is unique. But the Tao was a great place to start for me personally. Maybe it will help you too.  :smiley: 

@ Dannon... I'm curious to know about the mercury transmutation as well. I've heard of Breatharians (people who live on air alone) but I haven't heard of mercury supplementation as an aid to that. I can see how that might be possible, but I don't want to assume too much without hearing the whole story.

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## LucidFlanders

When i think of alchemy, i think MMO trying to make armor or weapons or potions or whatever.

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## juroara

I've been told that alchemy is the transmutation of spirit. But I have no idea where this claim originates from or what it's based on  :Sad:

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## Dannon Oneironaut

> @ Dannon... I'm curious to know about the mercury transmutation as well. I've heard of Breatharians (people who live on air alone) but I haven't heard of mercury supplementation as an aid to that. I can see how that might be possible, but I don't want to assume too much without hearing the whole story.



There is a company that makes alchemical elixirs called PARALAB. I can't find the society right now, you may want to check www.Alchemylab.com 
As for the Indian Yogis who use treated mercury, I found out how they treated mercury one time by searching on the internet. But I didn't copy it or bookmark it. 

I just unpacked my books and now I can browse through my alchemy books and see if I can find some more information about the Yogis. Oh yeah, the Hindu science of Alchemy is called Rasayana, it is a branch of ayurveda. 

Frater Albertus calls alchemy "consciously assisted evolution." 

In the body you have plasma, blood, muscle, fat, bone, marrow, and reproductive essence. These tissues are formed during the process of digesting food and each has an associated waste product that must be removed from the body as they refine into each other. 

Plasma is refined food. Blood is refined plasma, muscle is refined blood, bone is refined muscle, marrow is refined bone, and reproductive essence is refined marrow, and spirit is refined reproductive essence. So that is why many spiritual traditions prescribe celibacy. At the root, it is not a moral issue, but a alchemical issue. It takes so much food to create some semen (which is filled with proteins and minerals) that if you waste it habitually you deplete your nerves and kidneys and won't have the surplus to generate spirit (or gold). Used externally, semen has the energy of spirit to create another life, used internally it has the energy of spirit to create more life in you. I am not too clear on females and if there is any importance for them to remain celibate from an alchemical reason. I think for a female, the refined essence may be the lining of the uterus which sheds once a month, but that also gets rid of so many toxins also. It is unclear to me which reproductive essence in a female is refined to spirit. Unfortunately, most spiritual traditions in the past have been male-chauvinistic and many even denied that women could become enlightened or even have souls!

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## flyinghawkins

> In the body you have plasma, blood, muscle, fat, bone, marrow, and reproductive essence. These tissues are formed during the process of digesting food and each has an associated waste product that must be removed from the body as they refine into each other. 
> 
> Plasma is refined food. Blood is refined plasma, muscle is refined blood, bone is refined muscle, marrow is refined bone, and reproductive essence is refined marrow, and spirit is refined reproductive essence. So that is why many spiritual traditions prescribe celibacy. At the root, it is not a moral issue, but a alchemical issue. It takes so much food to create some semen (which is filled with proteins and minerals) that if you waste it habitually you deplete your nerves and kidneys and won't have the surplus to generate spirit (or gold). Used externally, semen has the energy of spirit to create another life, used internally it has the energy of spirit to create more life in you. I am not too clear on females and if there is any importance for them to remain celibate from an alchemical reason. I think for a female, the refined essence may be the lining of the uterus which sheds once a month, but that also gets rid of so many toxins also. It is unclear to me which reproductive essence in a female is refined to spirit. Unfortunately, most spiritual traditions in the past have been male-chauvinistic and many even denied that women could become enlightened or even have souls!



How interesting! I wasn't aware of the literal break down of it physically. But I do not think that celibacy is necessary. Tantric yoga encourages sexual activity. I think with the proper diet and supplementation, you can have all the sex you like and still supply your body with enough protein to allow for alchemy. Eating according to the Raw Diet is a great option to provide your body with optimal nutrition. And if you supplement that diet with the proper vitamins (such as DHEA, which is the building blocks of hormones in your body, in conjunction with steroidal saponin complexes to convert it to testosterone naturally) you can provide your body with the resources to thrive physically and yet improve your alchemical practice. For protein, body builder shakes are the best.  :smiley:  In this way, "to sex or not to sex" becomes a personal preference instead of a spiritual limitation.

I'm surprised to hear that the old alchemists were so chauvinistic. Perhaps the medieval alchemists were swayed in this way by the oppression of the western feudal and religious organizations of the time... I don't have the dates memorized, so I cannot say for sure.

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## Xaqaria

To find out most all of the information on modern day alchemy, search for Chemistry on google.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

Yes, tantra is great alchemy. Transmuting desire into bliss. Using sensation and bliss for reality checks or lucidity. Interesting information about DHEA and steroidal saponin. But it sounds scary: steroids. But I am not too concerned about celibacy vs. non-celibacy. For me, moderation and right use (not for gratification but for expressing love) are good enough for me. Tantra and Taoist sexual techniques are great.

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## flyinghawkins

Oh I forgot this bit:

According to tantric yoga, the woman's sexual essence is worshiped. They call it Amrita - the fluids a woman releases only during sex. I believe that is where you will find the missing feminine essence. If those old alchemists were practicing celibacy, I believe they were missing a huge factor in the reality of this world. That being the polarities. Masculine energy is but one half of the whole - they cannot make it on their own. The same goes for women. Each polarity must unite with its opposite to reach one (there is more than the physical implicated in that statement). That is how human life is conceived, after all... which is a most splendid alchemical transformation in itself.

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## Dannon Oneironaut

Yeah, that is why they were so serious and ambitious! Lol

And yeah for Tantra! Tantra has never been male chauvinist!

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## flyinghawkins

It sounds as though you have struck a good balance. Really everything boils down to love in the end.  :smiley: 

The steroidal components are not the commonly misused or harmful sort. But I can understand how that might sound kind of freaky. lol In reality, they are no stranger than any other supplement you might find in a health food store.

Yes, the lucidity of sex is what I find so intriguing about it. It seems that applying lucidity is appropriate to every situation.

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## tkdyo

> To find out most all of the information on modern day alchemy, search for Chemistry on google.



but alchemy sounds so much COOOOLER.

really, it does.  They should have just kept calling it alchemy instead of chemistry.

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## Zhaylin

A very long time ago, my hubby was a nuclear physicist.  He worked at a place called Monsano (sp).  One project was turning lead into gold.  When he first told me, I thought they were making bricks of the stuff but he said the changes were on a molecular level or somesuch.  And it took a (again, sorry for butchering the word) cyclatron (?) a lot of energy which made the project pretty useless.

I've always been interested in alchemy and chemistry but I lack the scientific intelligence to pursue such knowledge.

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## SaMaster14

In all honesty... the complete breakdown and recreation of metals and elements seems like it could be possible... we, as humans, just don't have the means to do so yet.

But... I'm more interested in spiritual alchemy and the transmutation of the body into the spirit(gold).

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## Dannon Oneironaut

That is the real meaning of alchemy. It is not synonymous with chemistry. And the only way to change lead into gold would be through nuclear fission. Actually changing the atomic weight of the element. The real meaning of alchemy is spiritual alchemy. The chemistry of alchemy is not changing lead into gold, but in refining and purifying the essence of the matter in order to make an elixir that quickens the spirit and promotes longevity.

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## SaMaster14

> That is the real meaning of alchemy. It is not synonymous with chemistry. And the only way to change lead into gold would be through nuclear fission. Actually changing the atomic weight of the element. The real meaning of alchemy is spiritual alchemy. The chemistry of alchemy is not changing lead into gold, but in refining and purifying the essence of the matter in order to make an elixir that quickens the spirit and promotes longevity.



 Right... and thats the philosopers stone... or an elixer to grant immortality... 

Though, I've always interpreted it as immortality of the soul, not the body. Or of finding ultimate knowledge (like the Akashic Records or something)

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