# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity > Lucid Aids >  >  New Novadreamer...

## LucidAlex

Just thought I'd post this, seeing as noone else has...

NEW DREAMLIGHT/NOVADREAMER DEVICE COMING SOON

    FAQs: Why is there anything at all? Where did we come from and where
    are we going? Why isn't the NovaDreamer being manufactured anymore?

    The last of these questions, at least, is answerable: A new version
    of the NovaDreamer will soon be available. At this point we can say
    that the new device will offer improvements in features, function,
    comfort, and effectiveness.

* The next generation of NovaDreamer will be previewed at our upcoming
    Dreaming and Awakening workshop, October 1-10, 2007 (see above).
    Participants in the program will be asked for their feedback on the
    new model and offered a discount for future purchases.
*
(from an email from the Lucidity Institute.)

----------


## Vortex

You beat me to it Alex.
No mention of price or when it will be available yet though, or even what's different about it.

----------


## phoenelai

Anyone want to make some outrages guesses on what this damn thing is going to cost. Man they are going bank$ bigtime. Looking at the past people will pay for lucidity.

*My votes $899*

----------


## sourcejedi

> *My votes $899*



:-D.  They didn't say anything about improving the _price_, did they? 
$899 is unrealistic, but it is interesting what people are willing to pay.

In terms of parts I'd have thought they're cheap enough to make, but I bet R&D and the small runs mean they don't make that much of a profit.

No more than 50%, that is  :;-): .

Hey, it's a free market!  They make the good product, they get the $.  There isn't a _better_ product AFAIK.

----------


## phoenelai

It seems like when they know something will sell; the put a nice price tag on it. Although the Nova Dreamer has a great reputation for it's well made product (best on the market). At least people will feel they are getting their moneys worth! I have an issue with wearing a circuit board on my face. Can't sleep on my side (had the DreamMaker). I hope they streamline the mask and get the circuit board off the mask only using the essentials (such as the LEDS and the sensors) I know thats a big wish, but I like to keep wishing for that one, heheh.

----------


## REMemberDreaming

I think the right price point is $199, which I believe should be the sweet spot intersection of supply and demand. Price too high and a lot of people will not buy, no matter how much it appeals.

I think the more interesting question is what new features it will have, and if it will interface with computers via USB.

----------


## phoenelai

If they dont put an interface such as Nova Dreamer where you can track your queues(software) that would be really stupid. The did it before.

----------


## brumans

I am excited for this!  I can't wait to see what new features they have implemented, and, depending on the price, will definitely consider buying one.

Is anyone here going to this conference?  It would be great to read a first-hand review of someone who is there to give us the info early (i'm sure the hotel has wireless internet... bring a laptop and create a blog!)!

----------


## Clairity

> I am excited for this! I can't wait to see what new features they have implemented, and, depending on the price, will definitely consider buying one.



I have the original NovaDreamer so I'm excited to see the new features as well.  If it looks promising, I too will seriously consider buying one.  :smiley:

----------


## phoenelai

> I have the original NovaDreamer so I'm excited to see the new features as well.  If it looks promising, I too will seriously consider buying one.



Clarity since you have one. What kinda changes are you looking for? Comfort, better queues etc? Let us know please! ::D:

----------


## Clairity

> Clarity since you have one. What kinda changes are you looking for? Comfort, better queues etc? Let us know please!



Comfort would be nice.. I didn't find it all that heavy but since I'm a "side" sleeper.. it would be nice if it would be more comfortable in that respect.

It would be REALLY GREAT if there were DIFFERENT color flashing lights!! After awhile I no longer saw the white flashing lights (or just incorporated them into my dreams). I would love it if you had a choice of maybe white, *green*, *red*, *yellow* and *blue* lights (and had the option of picking any *combination* of them to flash).

Since the old one allowed you to pick the number of queues and the intensity of the lights or whether or not you wanted beeps along with the lights.. I'm not sure what other queues to add. I mean a *voice queue* (either pre-recorded or your own) would be great (I used to have that with the separate feature "Dream Speaker") but I'm not sure how much that would raise the price.

----------


## phoenelai

> Comfort would be nice.. I didn't find it all that heavy but since I'm a "side" sleeper.. it would be nice if it would be more comfortable in that respect.
> 
> It would be REALLY GREAT if there were DIFFERENT color flashing lights!! After awhile I no longer saw the white flashing lights (or just incorporated them into my dreams). I would love it if you had a choice of maybe white, *green*, *red*, *yellow* and *blue* lights (and had the option of picking any *combination* of them to flash).
> 
> Since the old one allowed you to pick the number of queues and the intensity of the lights or whether or not you wanted beeps along with the lights.. I'm not sure what other queues to add. I mean a *voice queue* (either pre-recorded or your own) would be great (I used to have that with the separate feature "Dream Speaker") but I'm not sure how much that would raise the price.



Thanks! It's good to hear product reviews when people have actually owned them. I think the coolest thing that could happen to lucid dream mask is again if the circuit board was in its own box attached by cable or what ever and you really had a soft comfortable sleep mask with the LED's and the sensors. I tried sleeping with DreamMaker and had a pretty hardtime and the mask itself was pretty comfortable. Still had issues with it being a side sleeper myself.  ::?:

----------


## Dream Sailor

They could place the LEDs in an external emission box and transfer light via fiber optic cabling to reduce bulk. Nothing expensive but we probably won't see it done.

My take on these is this: *RIP OFF*

Really, no matter how you butter it up, it's a device with the complexity of your average childs toy at Wal-Mart. LEDs, sensors, big whooptie do's. You can buy a 20" LCD monitor for $200 bucks for crying out loud, now lets compare internal parts lists between the two...  ::roll:: 

Anyone who looks at parts cost on anything they incorporate knows these things are made for pennies on the dollar and then jacked up. I can't see there being some huge setup costs, it's an automated process and there aren't parts being machined, so no hefty production molds being made. I don't condone you for paying this price, I just know if consumers were actually educated they wouldn't be thinking about handing their money away so easily and prices would then drop.

Can anyone sew? Can you solder as well? I don't think any sensors are needed to make the principle work. They are just helping you time it right into REM as they say.

You could take a standard white sleep mask and open it up (I say white because it allows the light to transfer through more easily), and basically place some LEDs of your choice color inside and glue them or sew them in place. Run your small gauge wire out of the mask, pad with a small amount of cotton, and stitch back up. Place some correct resistors (maybe 1-10k ohm, or use a dial potentiometer) on the external connection wire so you don't overfeed your LEDs, and use a male stereo plug for your power connection. All of which is available at Radioshack for about $5 together.

Now you have a dream mask which uses an audio output from a laptop or PC as its signal feed. You then simply find audio which has solid tone lengths in the intervals you want, or create your own. This creates the flashing patterns and brightness which will occur based upon volume setting.

If you ask me, it's worth the $5-10 bucks to try before spending $200 on something that might not help you any more.

----------


## jonesn

_At this point we can say that the new device will offer improvements in features, function, comfort, and effectiveness._

Sounds like a minor facelift of the original ND. I'd expect to see a new infrared sensor design to more accurately detect REM, smaller soft circuit board, USB connection for the SuperNova software, and possibly a more complex sound output. The biggest issue with the ND was (dis)comfort and ergonomic effeciency, considering mine fell off everytime I used it (medical fabric tape comes in handy).

----------


## Vortex

I still use my NovaDreamer. Not all the time as my brain just tunes it out then.
I have made some of my own adaptations to it but I'd still like a better one.
The new features I'd like to see are: The option to record your own voice cue, combined with soft miniture piezo-electric speakers sewn into the headband where it goes over the ears.
The option to have gradually increasing brightness of flashes, The option of a vibration cue, better fitting mask that shuts out all light and pc interface as standard.

----------


## Clairity

> The option to have gradually increasing brightness of flashes, The option of a vibration cue, better fitting mask that shuts out all light and pc interface as standard.



Ooooh, a vibration cue.. now that would be interesting! I wonder how well that would work.. having your face/head vibrating?  ::D:

----------


## phoenelai

> Ooooh, a vibration cue.. now that would be interesting! I wonder how well that would work.. having your face/head vibrating?



That might be kinda jarring for me personally! I had a vibrating wrist watch (alarm), I slept right through that although. I'd like to less items on the mask (LED's if any). Lets get that thing really comfortable for side sleepers.

----------


## Vortex

I've been meaning to try it out with one of those little vibrating motors that they use in mobile phones. I think on the forehead - third eye would be the spot, but it's a busy time of year for me and I'll probably leave it until the winter when I can do it properly. I tried using one of the vibrating watches on my arm and ankle but I slept though it every time, so on the forehead might be just enough to get through. 
The problem with all these things is the brain is very good at tuning them out pretty quickly.

----------


## jonesn

> Ooooh, a vibration cue.. now that would be interesting! I wonder how well that would work.. having your face/head vibrating?



Not too well actually. Remember that the inactivity of the thalamus greatly inhibits sensory perception during REM, so considering that touch is a very quantitative sense (as opposed to vision and hearing, very qualitative) there is little cue for the subconscious to interpret.

Look at the work Rich (et al) did under Dr LaBerge at Stanford during the late 80's. It's on the lucidity.com website

----------


## Vortex

Yeah, I'm familiar with it and with Keith Hearne's work from the 80's in the UK, where he used electric shocks as the cue. I just like experimenting on myself as we are all different.

----------


## luciddan

Hi. I'm new to this Forum - so greetings all!!

I still have the 'old' Novadreamer and use it every second day or so with outstanding results. It's such a simple comcept and works brilliantly (once you get used to wearing it without throwing it off mid-sleep). The simple methods are always the better ones.

I can't wait to see the new Nova Dreamer II - I have no idea how they can improve upon the first - maybe it will be more sensitive to the circadian rythym of our bodies or maybe it simply will come with some cool software so we can use it in conjuction with an Mp3 player in order to combine the Binaural tracks with the cues given (so the binaural tracks start once we achieve REM sleep).

Stephen Laberge completely changed my sleeping life. Im trying to get my act together to go to Hawai in 08... fingers crossed...

Stay Lucid....

----------


## westonci

For anyone that has bought this, on any given day what are the chances of becoming lucid once you've adjusted the settings?

----------


## Clairity

It worked the first time I wore it and then sporadically after that.. but then I wasn't religious about doing reality checks everytime I saw "lights", etc.

Here's another one of the many threads regarding the NovaDreamer:

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ht=novadreamer

----------


## luciddan

I find that when I have a good intention to Dream Lucidly _and_ I use the MILD technique then I will invariably have a lucid Dream when wearing the Novadreamer. 

The main obstacle is getting comfortable when wearing it and not taking it off mid-sleep.

By the way - I'm selling one (I bought one for myself and had one bought for me by my father) Anyone interested then message me.

Dan
Australia

----------


## Hazel

I'm not sure what the Novadreamer is, but I assume it is something that you wear over your face (sort of like the DreamLight that it talks about in ETWOLD.) I don't think I'll ever use anything like that, because it seems sort of uncomfortable. (And a bit unsafe, too, if you ask me.)

----------


## phoenelai

> I'm not sure what the Novadreamer is, but I assume it is something that you wear over your face (sort of like the DreamLight that it talks about in ETWOLD.) I don't think I'll ever use anything like that, because it seems sort of uncomfortable. (And a bit unsafe, too, if you ask me.)



Correct. Uncomfortable yes. Needs major modifications in that respect. Not sure what you mean or how possibly it could be unsafe. DreamLight and then Nova Dreamer has been out for a while with no reported issues due to health and or safety. (unless you have seizures then NO blinking lights) thats known though.

----------


## brumans

The workshop is going on right now.  I wonder when we will hear some news.

----------


## LucidAlex

> The workshop is going on right now.  I wonder when we will hear some news.



The workshop has been over for about a month now, and yet still no news...

----------


## jonesn

> The workshop has been over for about a month now, and yet still no news...



Those who attended the workshop may have signed a non-disclosure agreement, so we'll only know when TLI actually announces something on their website. Don't hold your breath though, since it's been about 3 years since anything was updated on the site!

----------


## LucidAlex

> Those who attended the workshop may have signed a non-disclosure agreement, so we'll only know when TLI actually announces something on their website. Don't hold your breath though, since it's been about 3 years since anything was updated on the site!



True, true.

----------


## brumans

It's been over a month and a half and nothing?

----------


## brumans

bump

----------


## nechong

i have emailed keelin from lucidity institute, she told me they have delayed the new nova launch to first quarter of 2008.

 :smiley:

----------


## brumans

Ah.. cool, that's not to bad.  Only a couple months away.

Any word on new features and price?

----------


## val stephens

I want to buy a NovaDreamer.  How much do you want for it?

----------


## pixiedust

> They could place the LEDs in an external emission box and transfer light via fiber optic cabling to reduce bulk. Nothing expensive but we probably won't see it done.
> 
> My take on these is this: *RIP OFF*
> 
> Really, no matter how you butter it up, it's a device with the complexity of your average childs toy at Wal-Mart. LEDs, sensors, big whooptie do's. You can buy a 20" LCD monitor for $200 bucks for crying out loud, now lets compare internal parts lists between the two... 
> 
> Anyone who looks at parts cost on anything they incorporate knows these things are made for pennies on the dollar and then jacked up. I can't see there being some huge setup costs, it's an automated process and there aren't parts being machined, so no hefty production molds being made. I don't condone you for paying this price, I just know if consumers were actually educated they wouldn't be thinking about handing their money away so easily and prices would then drop.
> 
> Can anyone sew? Can you solder as well? I don't think any sensors are needed to make the principle work. They are just helping you time it right into REM as they say.
> ...



the whole point of the NovaDreamer though, is to signal you while you're in REM. Is there not a way to build that into the mask? My bf is a mechanic who is good at electrical stufff, I was thinking of asking him to make me a mask (he'd probably be into it), but I don't see the point of the above design. Are you saying to find audio that's 90 minutes long, so that when the audio stops, the light flashes? I agree with what you're saying about the price btw - there are kids toys that are way more complex than the NovaDreamer that cost 50 bucks or even cheaper. Someone really needs to come up with an inexpensive dream mask - it would probably sell really well - more and more people are into lucid dreams these days.

If anyone has any ideas on how to do a REM sensor in this homemade dream mask, I'd love to hear it  :smiley:

----------


## pixiedust

PS - do you think you could post the actual instructions to actually make this, instead of just listing the things you need? Like, how exactly to do it?  :smiley:

----------


## ~Erin~

> Those who attended the workshop may have signed a non-disclosure agreement, so we'll only know when TLI actually announces something on their website. Don't hold your breath though, since it's been about 3 years since anything was updated on the site!



 
haha,that's true. 

Though I think there is one part of the site that gets updated frequently..wait..I think it's their reasearch results page . Anway, I didn't know they were making a new one. I hope that it's less expensive..but some how I doubt that.  I can lucid dream on my own so I don't really need it . But it would be interesting to  try it out. 

Does anyone know how the workshops turned out? I don't think I've ever head about the workshops  after they were done and how they turned out on the site.

----------


## vinn

ive read about the nova dreamerbefore but im not quite shure if id buy one just yet with out more proof that it works well.

----------


## brumans

I e-mailed [email protected] for an update and Keelin replied saying

Thank you for inquiring about the NovaDreamer. We expect to be using the new model during our *Dreaming & Awakening* workshop this coming April (for details, please see: *http://lucidity.com/daa). As soon as it's available for sale to the public, we'll be announcing it in our newsletter LUCIDITY*FLASHES and on our website. If you haven't already done so, you might want to take a moment to sign onto our mailing list at http://www.lucidity.com/MailingListForm.html*

Meanwhile, we encourage you to read "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming", by Dr. Stephen LaBerge and Howard Rheingold, as it will provide a clear and accurate understanding of your dreaming mind and its wondrous potential. It will also introduce specific and effective techniques for inducing lucid dreams at will.

*Wishing you the best and brightest of dreams!*
Keelin 
The Lucidity Institute, Program Coordinator

----------


## Vortex

That's a standard format reply letter to that question, it's just the date that keeps changing  ::roll::

----------


## ~Erin~

Yeah, I've also emailed The institute once in regards to a project I was doing. She answered my question, but what I found annoying was how much small hints of  advertisements within the emails , like the one they emailed you.

----------


## kugruabay

I still have a Novadreamer that I bought oh so many years ago, I think the mask and workbook ran around three hundred bucks. I never saw any advantage to using it. For one, I found it to be quite uncomfortable and after using it for a few nights I found myself tossing it off whenever the alarm was triggered by REM. 
I think the presets for alarm light and sounds were to crude and either werent sufficient to nudge me into lucidity or at the other extreme woke me up, which put me in a disagreeable mood.
I think a better approach would be to make a simple, non-bulky, lightweight REM sensor on the order of a pair of tanning bed goggles, and then run the connection wires to the mic and phone connectors of a PC or Laptop computer. 
I dont know squat about how to program a computer so that REM detection on the mic input could be used to trigger a pre programmed voice response in the form of perhaps a guided reminder of how to enter into the lucid state, maintain the state and as a to-do list in the dream.
The point is that interfacing with a computer opens-up a world of possibilities that a Novadreamer or the like could never match. 
I am confident that I could design and build the hardware, and if anyone here has suggestions on the software side of things I feel this could be a worthy collaborative project. 
What do you think?

----------


## Vortex

Just received this from the Lucidity Institute:
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
NovaDreamer2: The Next Generation of Lucid Dream Induction Devices 


    The NovaDreamer (no longer in production) is being replaced by a new, 
    improved version (NovaDreamer2, ND2) expected to ship later this year. 
    ND2 features will include interactivity (real-time response to eye 
    movement signals), and many improvements in comfort, reliability, 
    and performance--enough, we think, to make it well worth the wait. 
    Thank you for your patience; expect an announcement of product 
    pricing and ship-dates this Spring. 

    Prototypes of the "NovaDreamer2" will be tested at our upcoming 
    Dreaming and Awakening workshop, April 21-30 (see above). 

    If you think you are interested enough that you would probably order 
    one today if you could, please send an email to ND2?lucidity?com. 
    We will add you to a first-come first-served list of preferred 
    customers who will be offered the opportunity to purchase one of 
    the first production run of new ND2s before the general public. 
    We will also invite you to respond to a survey shortly. 

    If you wish to be notified when the ND2 becomes available, 
    please make sure you keep your email address current at: 

<http://lucidity.com/MailingListForm.html> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------


## westonci

> Just received this from the Lucidity Institute:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> NovaDreamer2: The Next Generation of Lucid Dream Induction Devices 
> 
> 
>     The NovaDreamer (no longer in production) is being replaced by a new, 
>     improved version (NovaDreamer2, ND2) expected to ship later this year. 
>     ND2 features will include interactivity (real-time response to eye 
>     movement signals), and many improvements in comfort, reliability, 
> ...



yea i just got it too, finally!

----------


## sourcejedi

For anyone interested in the full text of this and previous newsletters, I found an archive.

http://archive.mail-list.com/lucidity/

----------

