# Lucid Dreaming > Attaining Lucidity >  >  extended non-local conscience - spell rudiments.

## rommany

if breathing is not free and clear, consider remedy.

Stay awake for 72+ hours
make sure you are not bored while awake.
try not to day dream.
stay still during this time.
remain hungry during this time
eat small quantities of raw crunchy plants if needed.
remain as cool as to be uncomfortable.
stretch your body slowly. (yoga will work)
then let yourself drift off for 2hrs
on a hard mat or
2 seater couch that is not big enough for you to lie down comfortably.
discomfort of any kind while napping helps
be sure you are woken after 2hrs
stay awake for 4hrs
sleep for 2hrs
repeat
until you notice that you are no longer awake.
when this happen, you may feel very creepy
if you can relax into the creepiness
your in.
start off where you are as if you were awake in real time.
move on from there as needed.

This can get quite scary,
Tibetan or Hindi theology may guide you through the visions.
If you get through , you may be forgiven.

get used to sleep paralysis while waking.
Don't try this If you are a sleep walker.

A sleep walking lucid dreamer will often seem psychotic to an observer.

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## spockman

Hello rommany!

Welcome to the forums. 

This is certainly interesting, but may do better in beyond dreaming.

Awaiting a second opinion...

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## rommany

WARNING :
Always regulate temperature, hydration
(not too cool)

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## Licity

> if breathing is not free and clear, consider remedy.
> 
> Stay awake for 72+ hours
> make sure you are not bored while awake.
> try not to day dream.
> stay still during this time.
> remain hungry during this time
> eat small quantities of raw crunchy plants if needed.
> remain as cool as to be uncomfortable.
> ...



Sleep deprive myself for three consecutive days, starve myself, freeze myself, lie down in the most uncomfortable place I can find, then nap repeatedly until I find myself in a FA. Then again, I could also wind up being scared from not reading enough Eastern theology and experience episodes of SP while awake and seem psychotic to everyone around me...

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## dreamingofdreaming

> This can get quite scary,
> Tibetan or Hindi theology may guide you through the visions.
> If you get through , you may be forgiven.




uhhhhhh

>>>>beyond dreaming

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## Snowy Egypt

> uhhhhhh
> 
> >>>>beyond dreaming







> Hello rommany!
> 
> Welcome to the forums. 
> 
> This is certainly interesting, but may do better in beyond dreaming?
> 
> Awaiting a second opinion...



I concur.

If anyone feels this isn't a proper thread move, please PM me or any Dream Guide.

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## rommany

that's what the doc says,
but i swear it works every time

It is sleep
it is dreaming
it is lucid
it is extended

save this method for special occasions.

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## Licity

> that's what the doc says,
> but i swear it works every time
> 
> It is sleep
> it is dreaming
> it is lucid
> it is extended
> 
> save this method for special occasions.



It is also very dangerous to perform for a wide multitude of reasons.

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## rommany

If you remain hydrated, and do not become hypothermic
It is quite safe,
In fact it is very good for you
physically , mentally and spiritually

you can go without proper thermoregulation for about 3 hrs
you can go with out water for about 3 days (don't try this)
you can go without food, for 3 months

3 days is mild sleep depravation.
You will experience natural neuro-chemical shifts that facilitate the journey.

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## wet_roof113

I don't know what extended non-local conscience is.

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## JamesLD

damn. last time i stayed up for 72 hours I got sleep deprivation and was hallucinating and hearing shit

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## rommany

sorry wetroof , typo ,
I mean to say consciousness

James, that sound about right
Hypnagogia is what this all about

Hypnagogic states are the doorway into lucid
dream states.

I have Hypnagogic hallucinations every time i fall a sleep
these manifest often as having clear closed eye vision
of the room that i am in
often with the ability to see in dark.

For one to remain lucid, a fair portion
of the rational mind needs to be present
slipping into a fully irrational scenario 
while rational, will frighten most people allot.
the steps i outline in my post will differentiate shallow dream recall 
from a truly lucid experience.

By the way,
you are alway lucid while dreaming
mostly you just forget

the discomfort is to make you keep a record
so you can remember the experience

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## Xetrov

> By the way,
> you are alway lucid while dreaming
> mostly you just forget



Thats not true, I have at times very high dream recall, and I often distinctly remember that I was thinking in the dream it was "real". Besides how would I recall so much detail from a dream and meanwhile forget I was lucid? The first thing I would recall for sure would be that I was lucid, since these experiences are so profound.

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## ClouD

> By the way,
> you are alway lucid while dreaming
> mostly you just forget



If you mean lucid as in aware, I agree, though if you mean aware of dreaming, then I'm sceptical -- I've been aware but not aware of dreaming, and forgetting that specifically I was aware of dreaming but not other ideas/thoughts is a bit of a stretch to imagine.

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## rommany

lucid |ˈloōsid|
adjective
1 expressed clearly; easy to understand : a lucid account | write in a clear and lucid style. See note at sensible .
 showing ability to think clearly, esp. in the intervals between periods of confusion or insanity : he has a few lucid moments every now and then.
 Psychology (of a dream) experienced with the dreamer feeling awake, aware of dreaming, and able to control events consciously.

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## Robot_Butler

How does this state of dreaming compare to what you get with traditional lucid dream induction techniques?  I'm very familiar with sleep deprivation, and I know it can induce some great lucid dreams.  I have no doubt this method would create some great dreams.  It seems a little overkill and unhealthy compared to other methods.  Is the payoff worth it, in your opinion?

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## Xetrov

>  Psychology (of a dream) experienced with the dreamer feeling awake, aware of dreaming, and able to control events consciously.



Exactly, hence you are incorrect.

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## rommany

I'm not sure why people would think it unhealthy.

I feel normal dreams of which you aware 
are typically phycological in there meaning.

This experience seems to be where the notions of the spirit world come from.

It can last 12 hrs,
which seems like decades
Truly epic

I am only directly aware of my own experiences, and that is what I share here.

Xetrov, i thank you for you reprimand with regard to semantics
I do not actually believe that a lucid dream is anything strange.

I guess i was in error calling it a lucid dream.
I actually term it 
extended non-local consciousness

as the moderator bump this post from Attaining Lucidity
I think we all agree that my incorrectness is not relevant here
it surprises me to find closed minded dreamers here.
peace

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## spockman

> lucid |ˈloōsid|
> adjective
> 1 expressed clearly; easy to understand : a lucid account | write in a clear and lucid style. See note at sensible .
> • showing ability to think clearly, esp. in the intervals between periods of confusion or insanity : he has a few lucid moments every now and then.
> • Psychology (of a dream) experienced with the dreamer feeling awake, aware of dreaming, and able to control events consciously.




I disagree that we are always lucid while dreaming in either of those two definitions. If you want my opinion on lucidity and what it may mean, I believe that there are two dreaming states which define the typical non-lucid and lucid mindset. The first, non-lucid, is a sort of 'go-with-the-flow- attitude where your stray thoughts control both the environment and yourself. So you aren't neccessarily rational. The second mind-set is more of a conciouss one, where your thoughts at the very least aren't being controlled by the dream.

But that's just me.





> as the moderator bump this post from Attaining Lucidity
> I think we all agree that my incorrectness is not relevant here
> peace



The moving of your thread wasn't intended as an insult, I'm sure. People, especially new users, are often unaware where their thread should be for them to get the best feedback as well as what the content fits best in. Moving it to beyond dreaming is not a way to show you how much we disagree that it's valid.

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## rommany

i am sure that all conversations of this nature
are pure conjecture
The Dictionary will not contain the answers.

perhaps there should be a Pope
who can categorize the absurd.

i would classify
lucid dreaming as a fleeting sub set of
non-local consciousness

obe is also a subset
as is the afterlife

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## Licity

> I'm not sure why people would think it unhealthy.
> 
> I feel normal dreams of which you aware 
> are typically phycological in there meaning.
> 
> This experience seems to be where the notions of the spirit world come from.
> 
> It can last 12 hrs,
> which seems like decades
> ...



It's dangerous because you are sleep depriving yourself for 72 consecutive hours. Sleep deprivation for that long can induce muscle aches, headaches, muscular tremors, irritability, temporary bouts of amnesia, long periods of constant yawning, reduced internal body temperature, reduced ability to process glucose, psychological symptoms similar to that of ADHD, and impaired motor skills just to name a few symptoms.

And what is extended non-local consciousness?

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## rommany

there are some Anticholigenic effects on the body.
this is also the mechanism of the neuro-chemical tweek

If you had to induce this with drugs it may be dangerous, but using the method put forward, you'll be just fine.

non-local consciousness refers to a state of consciousness that is external to you physical locality, extended in this case refers to the duration of the experience

I would suggest that if you are interested, give it a try.

If not, who cares.

It's not really something that requires antagonized debate

and buy the way
On writing this I have been up for about 3days
and I feel quite lucid

during this time
I have also remained hungry
and cold

I am uncomfortable

and will get some sleep soon

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## Licity

> this is also the mechanism of the neuro-chemical tweek



The what?

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## rommany

3 days is mild sleep depravation .
You will experience natural neuro-chemical shifts that facilitate the journey.

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## spockman

I looked it up, and it appears that 72 hours is only a mild health risk, and may cause hallucinations but not much more. (Just... don't drive. Hehe.)

But even still, DreamViews and Top Cola Inc. does not endorse potential health risks including the use of un-prescribed drugs as well as sleep deprivation. Dreamviews administration is not liable to any ill-effects resulting from advice given by members of the DreamViews.com forum. 

_Hehe, that was just me using my overly official voice. Hehe. (-:_

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## benTENDO

> This is certainly interesting, but may do better in beyond dreaming.



I disagree. Rommany is suggesting you deprive yourself of sleep and use his technique to gain lucidity..Nothing beyond dreaming about this.

We consider WILDs a journey of the transition of wake to sleep, but we are unable to accept this the same?





> Moving it to beyond dreaming is not a way to show you how much we disagree that it's valid.



I don't understand at all, why have you moved this then?





> It is sleep
> it is dreaming
> it is lucid
> it is extended



Sounds..not abnormal (for a lucid dream forum)

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## Licity

> 3 days is mild sleep depravation .
> You will experience natural neuro-chemical shifts that facilitate the journey.



A journey? I'm a little confused.

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## benTENDO

> A journey? I'm a little confused.



A journey of your mind, exploring the different areas during sleep.
It's a fancy way of saying "It'll be different to normal"

You seem to get confused easily, try this..look at the technique as if it were any other technique.
Basically:
- No sleep makes you sleepy and trippy (normal things)
- Go into lucid dream by relaxing (your body will fall asleep from all the no sleep)
- Have fun in lucid dream with new experience because you have hallucinating from being sleep deprived and you'll be in a dream

Or just think of it like: Imagine getting drunk and having a lucid dream, (I'm assuming this would be the outcome) your dream would be a bit..different to normal..and dream control would also feel..quite different.

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## DuB

> I disagree. Rommany is suggesting you deprive yourself of sleep and use his technique to gain lucidity..Nothing beyond dreaming about this.
> ...
> I don't understand at all, why have you moved this then?



I don't know, much of what the author is describing seems like just a bizarre induction technique, but passages like the following make me wonder:



> non-local consciousness refers to a state of consciousness that is external to you physical locality, extended in this case refers to the duration of the experience



Not to mention referring to the whole affair as a "spell." These may just be instances of poor translation at work -- or maybe not. In any case I see both sides of the issue.  ::meditate::

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## spockman

> I disagree. Rommany is suggesting you deprive yourself of sleep and use his technique to gain lucidity..Nothing beyond dreaming about this.
> 
> We consider WILDs a journey of the transition of wake to sleep, but we are unable to accept this the same?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand at all, why have you moved this then?
> 
> 
> ...



I was unsure about the move, thus why I waited for a second opinion. I do  stand by the decision, though. The thread starter mentions this as being a spell rudiment as well as using various Tibetan/Hindu theologies to counter the problems you face. OBEs have also been discussed, (and were implied with the extended conciousness comment.) This is of course not invalidating. I don't mean that at all. Simply, the thread will do better in BD as it is founded on multiple BD principles.

I hope it can be discussed well, though.

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## benTENDO

> The thread starter mentions this as being a spell rudiment as well as using various Tibetan/Hindu theologies to counter the problems you face. OBEs have also been discussed, (and were implied with the extended conciousness comment.)



I'm not sure why they refered to it being a spell.. I would like to assume that the use of the word isn't what it seems, they could be referring to ending a dry _spell_ or they might have just meant technique, not spell.

The use of Tibetan/Hindu theologies to counter the problems you face cannot be a reason to put this in beyond dreaming, doing that would be the same as going to any post talking about using meditation to control dreams and putting them in beyond dreaming.

I don't think OBEs were a part of discussion, they brought it up as a comparison.. The comments about extended consciousness were talking about normal dreams. The op seems to believe in dreams you have a different state of awareness and conscious thought, or at least that's what I got out of it.

I think you should take the original thread and place it back into attaining lucidity, but move the other comments to a discussion on something to do with "extended consciousness in dreams" and leave them in the beyond dreaming forum.





> I hope it can be discussed well, though.



You put it in beyond dreaming..when is anything discussed well here?

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## spockman

> You put it in beyond dreaming..when is anything discussed well here?



Frequently, actually. Most of people in BD are here to legitimantly discuss the subject matter of beyond dreaming. The use of BD elements in the OP made it more likely that the threads topics wouldn't be fully explored in any other section.

All beyond dreaming means is that the topic relates to something that goes farther then just our minds. An extended conciousness-that relates to out of body experiences and the after-life by using lucid induction methods is certianly an interesting topic, but one that better belongs here.

At any rate, I feel poorly now as it seems this discussion has hi-jacked the thread a bit. And I would like the thread starter to be satisfied with the discussion on the actual thread.

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## rommany

my use of word spell, was unfortunate
it can be substituted with method. 
My use of the, theological references, where more in describing
the archetypal content of the experience, not really implying
that anything "beyond dreaming" was occurring.
I do feel that the dream space is a form of non-local consciousness,
not unlike the other forms, that were mentioned.
hope that will clarify things.

In a final analysis with semantics and mysticism aside, 
I would move this back to were it was originally posted.

I also feel this debate should be left as is, as it clearly raises some interesting view points and objections.

Perhaps then , i can explain why these apparently Bizarre steps are useful for priming the experience

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## Snowy Egypt

> You put it in beyond dreaming..when is anything discussed well here?



I put it in here for a few days, and it turned out okay. No BD talk has transpired. No fights. Civil talk.

Rommany, thank you for the clarification, and I apologize for the confusion. This will be moved back to Attaining, and all posts will be left as is.

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## spockman

> my use of word spell, was unfortunate
> it can be substituted with method. 
> My use of the, theological references, where more in describing
> the archetypal content of the experience, not really implying
> that anything "beyond dreaming" was occurring.
> I do feel that the dream space is a form of non-local consciousness,
> not unlike the other forms, that were mentioned.
> hope that will clarify things.
> 
> ...



My apologies as well, I mis-interpreted what you meant, then. I thought that extended concioussness meant some higher level of reality or something and that the spell reference was calling this some ritual, possibly relating to Tibetan mysticysm. I see my mistake, and also hope to see your explanation on why this induction method would work.

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