# Sleep and Dreams > General Dream Discussion >  >  Dreaming in trance before entering REM sleep

## shinar

I am new here and hope you will all tolerate my not having searched for this ahead of time, but I suffer migraines and cannot spend too much time reading online.

I am at the end of my ropes trying to find medical help with my problem. I am always dismissed at every turn.

I began to suppose that I might be a narcoleptic, but after seeking advice from a neurologist it seems i do not fit into that category either.

Let me explain and see if anyone here experiences the same.

They say that we are not supposed to actually start dreaming until we enter that REM stage.

And from what I have briefly managed from the posts here, lucid dreaming is dreaming while still half awake. What I haven't been able to find out is IF these methods that you use to enter the lucid state still require you to go through the normal NREM stages before you begin to dream.In my case, I can usually begin to dream within minutes of falling asleep. i dream in cat naps that only last for minutes. And I often fall asleep and begin dreaming within minutes, full blown, storyline dreaming, which I can easily recount upon waking, and this will happen even if I am wakened from this state after having just fell asleep for only a few minutes.

From what I read about sleep stages, this is not normal, because we are usually supposed to go through the wave stages from NREM to REM before we start to dream.

NOW, this is just the normal dreaming that I do in 'normal sleep' if that is what you can call this type of sleeping.

By normal in my case, I mean that in comparison to what I define as my abnormal states.

for example, i can be sitting in a chair watching TV, in a classroom listening to the teacher, or sitting and reading a book, and I will suddenly realize that I am in a sort of stupor or trance, not paralyzed to the degree that I cannot force myself free from it by forcing myself to move or wake, but paralyzed in the sense that as long as I allow myself to go with it i am by all accounts limp and basically asleep. I will be drooling from the cataplexic like slack jaw, my head will be hanging free of control, and the only way that i could move a part of my body was if i forced myself to wake and move right up and out of the state.

But this paralysis is not all, for while I am in this state I can still hear people talking, the Tv, or anything within the environment around me. BUT I will within minutes begin to enter a dream, full blown dream, often with this background noise taking place at the same time, which often is what alerts me to the fact that I am dreaming but still awake, at which time the dream ends and I am forced to choose between remaining in that state of trance, or forcing myself to come out of it. if I stay there i will either begin dreaming again or fuss over trying to bring myself out of it.

This is something I have experienced all of my life. I recall having this happen when sitting quietly on the schoolbus, in the classroom, laying in the back of my parents stationwagon, etc.

I have never fallen asleep while engaged in interaction with someone or when doping something myself that requires my focused attention. Although I have often experienced difficulty fighting this off while driving, afraid of falling into the state I know I can enter.

I also see extreme phosphene aura/static/activity whole my eyes are closed. Not just unmoving lights or colors, but vibrant flowing, circulating colors and shapes more spiral and concentric than angular. There is usually a central tiny dot of light, varying colors from bright white to yellow to red to blue, around which the mixtures and blends of other flowing and rotating colors circle and expand outward and inward.

I need help in finding out what this is  and if it is some disease related concern or not.

Do any of you experience the same or have ever heard of such things?

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## ParadoxOwl

Very very interesting, I couldn't even begin to think of what this might be, sorry.

I am very intrigued and curious though.

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## AnotherDreamer

When you say, "BUT I will within minutes begin to enter a dream, full blown dream", do you mean that the dream is completely vivid as though you are there? Or is it semi-transparent, a little bit dark, and not completely formed? I don't know about those prescribed sleep cycles that we are supposed to go through though. I have gone straight into REM sleep from being awake at the beginning of the night (not WBTB).

I guess I'm just curious as to the vividness of what you are seeing/hearing during these experiences.

Oh and with the migraines, I get those too and turning the gamma down on the screen helps me a lot.

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## whitedreams

your experience seems to me quite unusual and fascinating. I really am not educated enough in the realm of sleep or psychology to even begin to try and identify what you are going through, however i can relate to when you said "I can still hear people talking, the Tv, or anything within the environment around me. BUT I will within minutes begin to enter a dream," as i have experienced this weird sensation on more than one occasion.

Every time i experienced this I am pretty sure has been afternoon naps. I would start to dream while being semi concious of my real enviornment. for example, i believe in one instance i was lucid in a dark grave yard yet concious to the fact of my mom talking on the phone and vaccuming. perhaps this is normal for naps, but the frequent occurance into which it seems to plague you, i could imagine is troubling. Are you able to get enough sleep each night?

the other thing il comment on is seeing weird colors and shapes as i fall asleep. though i dont ever recall seeing it as vividly as you with the yellows and red colors i definetly remember seeing weird geometric patterns and shapes. the fact that you see these things so vividly i would theorize could in the long run give you an advantage at lucid dreaming because you are perhaps more concious of the fact that you are falling asleep. Just some thoughts, sorry i am unable to answer your main question.

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## shinar

Thanks for the replies, from what I understand, which is confirmed by the links on the homepage for this forum, there are a few stages that most people go through before entering REM sleep. And it is typically the REM stage that most people begin dreaming. So it should be somewhat unusual for a person to begin dreaming within minutes of falling asleep.

It would certainly be unusual for a person to dream while still semi conscious.

So when you incite these lucid dreams, what is the difference between them and the natural dreaming that one would do when entering into the REM sleep stage naturally?

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## shinar

> When you say, "BUT I will within minutes begin to enter a dream, full blown dream", do you mean that the dream is completely vivid as though you are there? Or is it semi-transparent, a little bit dark, and not completely formed? I don't know about those prescribed sleep cycles that we are supposed to go through though. I have gone straight into REM sleep from being awake at the beginning of the night (not WBTB).
> 
> I guess I'm just curious as to the vividness of what you are seeing/hearing during these experiences.
> 
> Oh and with the migraines, I get those too and turning the gamma down on the screen helps me a lot.




When I say full blown dreaming, I guess I was trying to differentiate between what would be classified as Hypnagogic imagery, or fleeting non sensical scenes, these would be the same as what we all dreamm when in a sound sleep with the fullongoing stories and interactions.

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## shinar

> Every time i experienced this I am pretty sure has been afternoon naps. I would start to dream while being semi concious of my real enviornment. for example, i believe in one instance i was lucid in a dark grave yard yet concious to the fact of my mom talking on the phone and vaccuming. perhaps this is normal for naps, but the frequent occurance into which it seems to plague you, i could imagine is troubling. Are you able to get enough sleep each night?
> 
> This sounds similar to my events Whitedream, and I don't think it is natural for us to entering into dream so soon upon falling into sleep, especially before we actually even go into a sleep completely.
> 
> 
> 
> the other thing il comment on is seeing weird colors and shapes as i fall asleep. .



  These are things I see when my eyes are closed, not when I am sleeping. I see these whenever my eyes are closed no matter where I am or whether or not I am trying to sleep.

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## AnotherDreamer

> When I say full blown dreaming, I guess I was trying to differentiate between what would be classified as Hypnagogic imagery, or fleeting non sensical scenes, these would be the same as what we all dreamm when in a sound sleep with the fullongoing stories and interactions.



That's incredible, I envy your ability. With that kind of skill, I would imagine that you have the potential to do amazing things in your dreams.





> These are things I see when my eyes are closed, not when I am sleeping. I see these whenever my eyes are closed no matter where I am or whether or not I am trying to sleep.



I get those all the time too whenever I close my eyes. Can be as mild as colors or shapes, or as complex as entire dreamworlds around me. But my visuals are usually transparent in that they are a combination of what I am imagining and the world that I am seeing with my eyes. Honestly, I think that your ability to pass so easily into dreams is more of a blessing than something wrong with you. But if you are really determined to say that it is unnatural and it means that something is wrong with you, then I would guess that you could have an unusual brain chemistry. I don't understand all of the reaction pathways that the brain undergoes when entering REM sleep but maybe you have an imbalance of some neurotransmitters or maybe you are missing some sort of inhibition that would prevent you from falling into a sleep-like state whenever you relax. I don't think that it is currently known why people have narcolepsy, but the way you describe what you experience it sounds almost like a super mild form of narcolepsy. But if you can control it and it doesn't interfere with your life, I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with it. I'm sure there are a lot of people that would pay good money to have that kind of power to enter dreams.

Why did the neurologist say that you didn't fit into the category of a narcoleptic?

Oh, btw, the same thing happens to me too with the trancelike state and going into dreams but only when I am extremely tired and I haven't slept very well for a few days.

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## whitedreams

Quote Originally Posted by shinar  View Post
These are things I see when my eyes are closed, not when I am sleeping. I see these whenever my eyes are closed no matter where I am or whether or not I am trying to sleep.


oh snap! thats pretty trippy, are they at least cool patterns and interesting stuff to look at? maybe im wrong but it seems like it owuld be kinda cool, kinda be like having your own personal screen saver inside your head that goes on when you shut your eyes

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