# Sleep and Dreams > Sleep and Health >  >  New polyphasic sleep pattern

## tendomentis

Okay, so I've only been on the uberman schedule for a few weeks now, but I've had issues with having to nap every four hours. 

The Dymaxion schedule looked nice (at least more manageable) because it only involves clocking out every six hours, but I've not heard of many people having a lot of success with it, and 6pm still has me at work sometimes.

So, as of this morning, I've been on an as-yet-unnamed schedule of my own.

In short, I sleep 40 minutes at 4am, 12pm, and 8pm (every 8 hours in other words). Neither the 4am or 8pm interferes with a typical 9-5 cubicle job, and napping for 40 minutes at 12pm isn't difficult to manage at all (and still leaves a few minutes for lunch).

The last few weeks that I've been on the uberman schedule, I noticed that 25 minutes of actual sleep felt MUCH more refreshing than 20 minutes of actual sleep, so I'm theorizing that 40 minutes of sleep MIGHT be enough to sustain a person for 7.333 hours when 30 minutes might not.

Also while on the uberman schedule, I noticed that it was very easy to skip one nap cycle (as long as you didn't miss the next one), so that was basically sleeping a half an hour every 8 hours (just not mandated) anyway.

As I write this, it's 5pm my time, and I've only slept 80 minutes today (4am and 12pm). Aside from a slight headache, I don't feel overwhelmingly tired.

Has anyone else tried a schedule like this? I'd welcome any input anyone might have.

If you're interested, I've been tracking my entire polyphasic sleep experiment in greater detail on my project blog at http://tendomentis.blogspot.com.

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## Placebo

I'm skeptical of a 40 minute nap .. in my experience it doesn't leave you feeling particularly better and you run the risk of waking up from sleep inertia (grogginess from deep sleep)

In fact, I just tried a 60 minute lunch nap, that I've binned in favour of my usual 20 minute nap and a lie in (I don't oversleep at lunch times when at work, thankfully)

As for 20 min versus 25 min, this really depends on the person. I used to do 26 minutes, which was initially better.
But as I got better at falling asleep fast, I dropped that to 23 then 20 minutes.
Keeping in mind that I have an extra min or two fade in/out on my mp3

It's really about how well you get to sleep, IMO
But that means that 40 is not necessarily better  :wink2: 

EDIT:
As to your problem of fitting the uberman schedule to your life, that's a common problem. In fact the biggest reason why people stop - the inconvenience of it.
This is why a lot of people end up with an everyman schedule, or a biphasic (siesta) schedule

Myself, I'm doing this:
04:00-07:00 core
12:00-12:20 nap followed by 20 to 30 minutes listening to the birds
18:00-18:20 (optional/interchangeable with a 22:00 nap)
00:00-00:20 nap (optional/interchangeable with a 22:00 nap)

I prefer to avoid the midnight nap if possible, as it's the most dangerous one, so I tend to do a 10pm nap instead and stay up till 4am
Or I get my wife to make sure I wake up - but not always do-able

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## tendomentis

Oh I totally allow for the possibility that this might completely fail, but I feel the need to find my own limitations.

If worse comes to worst, I'll simply switch back to uberman.

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## Placebo

Fair enough  ::D: 

EDIT: BTW, I'm doing my schedule with a new baby involved as well

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## tendomentis

I definately do NOT want to use an everyman-variant sleep schedule. If I'm sleeping that much, I might as well be mono/biphasic.

If I can make this schedule work, this would be ideal, but if it isn't sustainable I'll simply go back to the uberman schedule.

I'm keeping my blog updated on the progress of this new variant, but I'll come back and post an update here in two weeks in case anyone else is interested.

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## Placebo

Please do!  ::D: 
I'd love to see somebody show it to be possible to have a flexible schedule involving 2 hours
But I remain incredibly skeptical. I've only done that with uberman.

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## tendomentis

Well, I'll give it my best shot anyway  :smiley: 

I'm eagerly awaiting my 4am flirtation with unconsciousness (it's 3am where I am as I type this). I love how much more I get done during a day now.

My one regret is that I didn't do this earlier in life...when I consider how much more I would be capable of now if I had started this at age 18...

Interestingly, I'm finding the biggest problem at the moment is actually not blacking out before the 8 hour cycle is up. I blacked out between 7:50pm and 8pm last night, and as such didn't set my alarm to wake me up at 8:40pm. My body still woke me up a little after 9pm, but it's frustrating to have to worry about actually making it to the next sleep cycle without blacking out first to ensure that I'm only asleep as long as I'm scheduled to be.

This is where having a personal robotic assistant would be handy (adds that to list of things to invent with all my extra free time).

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## luke

hey, this is very similar to my sleeping pattern. I named it LUCID-MAN because it was good at inducing dreams, i havent yet had actual lucids but it is only a matter of time.
Anyway, I sleep every 8 hours for 40 minutes although I split the 40 min block into two seperate 20 minute blocks. That is, I sleep for 20 minutes, wake for 5 minutes, then sleep again for another 20. I do this 3 times a day with a total of 2 hours. I'm not sure if it worked because my alarm fucked up so somebody should try it for me. I found this was a lot more refreshing than a continuous 40 minute sleep because you are having 2 power naps. 

It is essentially uberman but you dont have to nap every 4 hours (one of the main critiques). 

Someone try it please.

EDIT: I'm an ex-bi-phasic sleeper but I am thinking of going back to bi-phasic until I get a new alarm.

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## Placebo

Interesting. But you need to make sure you don't just fall straight into deep sleep on the second nap (ie. make sure to get up for those 5 mins)
Tempting to try... it's fairly convenient...

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## luke

Yeah, like I said, I wake for 5 minutes, I usually walk around, go toilet if I have to, read a couple of pages of my bedside book, and then back to bed.

If someone does try mine, please post here your results.

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## TempleGuard

I am pretty sceptic, too. But if this works it would be pretty great. I am routing for you.
And also the second one with the 5 min break, sounds pretty good. Please post how it works out.

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## tendomentis

I'm just going to stick to the basic triphasic schedule for now. I want to stick to this for at least two weeks before deciding if it's sustainable or not.

The lucidman schedule sounds interesting, but I don't want to mix my schedule up anymore than I already have...yet.

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## luke

I triphasicked for about a month, highly recommended...

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## tendomentis

Okay, hit a wall. I can't stay awake the 8 hours between cycles, at least long enough to get within a half hour of the next sleep cycle, which means no alarm gets set and I oversleep. My body won't let me oversleep by more than an hour (thanks to previously having been on the uberman schedule), but the prospect of this simply not being workable is frustrating.

As of this morning, I switched back to the uberman using 20 minute naps. To be honest, coming off a failed triphasic attempt, the uberman schedule feels downright luxurious.

I may try going triphasic again at some point (hey I couldn't handle the uberman on my first attempt either), but for now I'm going to stay with the uberman schedule.

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## The Subatomic Level

Not sure if you do not want to sleep any longer than 2 hours, but you if you try the triphasic sleep again you could see how 1 hour sleeping periods would work instead of 40 minutes sleep cycles.  This way you would be up 7 hours at a time and would get more rest during your sleeps.  The convenience of triphasic may be worth the extra hour of sleep you would need as opposed to uberman.  

Another thing to consider between these two sleeping schedules is the time it takes to prepare for your nap and the time it takes to wake up.  I found that when I wake up from a good nap it takes about 5 minutes to become fully coherent.  And to fall asleep, I generally take about 5 minutes to warm up the bed and slow my breathing down before I can attempt to sleep.  

So at least in my case...Total time sleeping, falling asleep and waking up on uberman vs triphasic would be:

uberman
Time asleep 6 x 20 min naps:  2 hr
Time preparing to sleep 6 x 5 min: .5 hr
Time spent waking up 6 x 5 min: .5 hr
Total = 3 hr of time out of my day for uberman

triphasic
Time asleep 3 x 1hr: 3 hr
Time preparing to sleep 3 x 5 min: .25 hr
Time spent waking up 3 x 5 min: .25 hr
Total = 3.5 hr of time out of my day for triphasic

This may obviously be different for others but for me I think the convenience of triphasic will be well worth the extra half an hour it takes out of my day.  Do you wear contacts?  If so, you should also consider the time it takes to take them off and put them back in for every nap.  Unless of course, you will be taking your naps with them in.

I was on Everyman for a month and a week and that was taking about 5.33 hrs out of my day.  I plan to get back on a polyphasic schedule when finals are done with in a week and triphasic looks very tempting.  I'll definitely update this thread with results if I decide to go triphasic.

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## Placebo

5.3 hours? Sheesh. It works out a lot better for me.
At complete worst, I was getting 4.5 hours (closer to 4)
That was until things got really stuffed up the last 2 days :/
Now I'm  planning on  trying this lucidman schedule

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## tendomentis

I'm so glad I joined this forum.

I've been so frustrated with having failed my first attempt at going triphasic, but I was also devastated when I failed in my first attempt to go to the uberman schedule a few months ago.

I'm inspired by the people in this thread who recommend and encourage going triphasic. As much as I want to knock my total sleep down to two hours, I have to scale back and shoot for three.

So, I'll sleep for an hour at 12, and again at 8, and again at 4 the next morning and see if sleeping an hour every seven is any more achievable.

Like going to the uberman schedule, I'm convinced that achieving triphasic mostly boils down to a test of personal will, not just total sleep.

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## The Subatomic Level

> 5.3 hours? Sheesh. It works out a lot better for me.
> At complete worst, I was getting 4.5 hours (closer to 4)
> That was until things got really stuffed up the last 2 days :/
> Now I'm  planning on  trying this lucidman schedule



Yeah, I started with a 4.5 hr core with 2 20-25 minute naps, and worked my way down to a 4 hr core with the 2 20-25 minute naps.  I didnt want to push my core down to 3 hours because I couldnt evenly spread out 3 naps and have it work with my class/work schedule.  

And technically time spent sleeping for me was 4.66 hrs and the 5.33 hrs included that time it takes to prepare for sleep and wake up.





> I'm so glad I joined this forum.
> 
> I've been so frustrated with having failed my first attempt at going triphasic, but I was also devastated when I failed in my first attempt to go to the uberman schedule a few months ago.
> 
> I'm inspired by the people in this thread who recommend and encourage going triphasic. As much as I want to knock my total sleep down to two hours, I have to scale back and shoot for three.
> 
> So, I'll sleep for an hour at 12, and again at 8, and again at 4 the next morning and see if sleeping an hour every seven is any more achievable.
> 
> Like going to the uberman schedule, I'm convinced that achieving triphasic mostly boils down to a test of personal will, not just total sleep.



Hey, good luck with it!  and definitely let us know how it goes and/or update your blog.

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## TempleGuard

I've only done everyman (3h core + 3 naps) before, and this is what I've just started few days ago, if any triphasic schedule works I will probably try to start it, too.

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## tendomentis

Okay, I'd like to report that the 1 hour nap at 12pm went extremely well. Awoke fully rested and barrell-chested and even got some dreaming done (not lucid yet).

If no one has named this particular schedule yet (1 hour down for every 7 up, three times a day), I'd like to call it the trinity schedule. 1 hour asleep for every 7 awake, 3 times a day...just seems to have a lot of numbers typically associated with judeochristianity. I've posted additional thoughts on my blog, and I'll update here and there over the next two weeks.

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## Placebo

It's just a triphasic schedule.
But if you want to name it specifically for the 1 hours version, be my guest  :smiley: 

I've pretty much crashed this weekend .. it was inevitable since I've been experimenting a bit too harshly. And I ended up spending the whole day driving around in the heat ... nowhere to nap :/

I'll try the 'lucidman' schedule next

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## tendomentis

Only to keep it distinct (as there is more than one type of triphasic schedule), in the same way that uberman and everyman are both polyphasic schedules.

I just didn't want to throw a name at it if someone else already had.

Back on topic though...at 3:30am, I'm still pretty alert (though tired obviously). Finished more of my Christmas wrapping and most of my daily chores (which I've been saving for this middle of the night cycle).

So far, it looks like moving up to an hour every seven did the trick.

Does anyone else want to try?

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## Placebo

I tried the hour lunch thing for a few days, and I wasn't feeling that great after.
But hey, YMMV (and it does seem to)

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## luke

> I'll try the 'lucidman' schedule next



Thanks!!!! Thank-you so much. I'm so thrilled somebody is giving my schedule a go. Please post your results.
And guess what?.......
I GOT A NEW ALARM! I'm so excited. Now it won't fuck up. I have decided to put renewed interest into lucidman schedule and give it a go with my new non-screwed-up alarm. Although I'm going away to tasmania in two days time to return on new years eve, so i won't be able to trial it for long because I will be monophasicking (I know, poor me) for that time.
But I will get into it completely when I come back in 09. I hope this thread is still active by then.






> If no one has named this particular schedule yet (1 hour down for every 7 up, three times a day), I'd like to call it the trinity schedule. 1 hour asleep for every 7 awake, 3 times a day...just seems to have a lot of numbers typically associated with judeochristianity. I've posted additional thoughts on my blog, and I'll update here and there over the next two weeks.



Tendomentis, it's great that you're tracking your progress although what you have got yourself into is just tri-phasic sleeping with a shorter time for an REM cycle (1 hour as opposed to the normal 1.5 hour). It will work once you have conditioned your body to get to REm stage time quicker, although you haven't invented a new schedule by any stretch.

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## tendomentis

> Tendomentis, it's great that you're tracking your progress although what you have got yourself into is just tri-phasic sleeping with a shorter time for an REM cycle (1 hour as opposed to the normal 1.5 hour). It will work once you have conditioned your body to get to REm stage time quicker, although you haven't invented a new schedule by any stretch.



I must have presented myself wrong. I'm not trying to claim I've invented some daring new schedule. Polyphasic sleep patterns have existed long before little ol' me, and will long after I'm gone, so I'm sure that almost any and every variation of sleep schedule any of us could come up with has already been tried and tested.

If I offended anyone by asking if I could name the variant I'm using, I apologize. Aside from the lucidman variant, I hadn't seen anyone else name any other triphasic sleep schedules, and as almost every other sleep schedule has a "proper" name, I felt it only "proper" that this variant have a name too. I won't mention it again though on this forum.

As far as REM conditioning, I guess I got off lucky as my last two 1 hour sleep cycles did involve dreaming (just not the lucid variety yet).

I know this forum is mainly for lucid dreaming conversation (which I'm obviously also very much involved/interested in), so I'll refrain from taking up anyone's time with my thoughts on alternative sleep schedules.

Again, sorry to have offended.

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## The Subatomic Level

> I must have presented myself wrong. I'm not trying to claim I've invented some daring new schedule. Polyphasic sleep patterns have existed long before little ol' me, and will long after I'm gone, so I'm sure that almost any and every variation of sleep schedule any of us could come up with has already been tried and tested.
> 
> If I offended anyone by asking if I could name the variant I'm using, I apologize. Aside from the lucidman variant, I hadn't seen anyone else name any other triphasic sleep schedules, and as almost every other sleep schedule has a "proper" name, I felt it only "proper" that this variant have a name too. I won't mention it again though on this forum.
> 
> As far as REM conditioning, I guess I got off lucky as my last two 1 hour sleep cycles did involve dreaming (just not the lucid variety yet).
> 
> I know this forum is mainly for lucid dreaming conversation (which I'm obviously also very much involved/interested in), so I'll refrain from taking up anyone's time with my thoughts on alternative sleep schedules.
> 
> Again, sorry to have offended.



You certainly havent offended me in the least, so no need for apologies.  I know said you wont mention the name again (not important to me either way), but I just wanted to give you a heads up on how it generally works.  The sleeping schedules that have names: uberman, everyman, and dymaxion, are the schedules that have worked for people for a sustained period of time.  So, unless you have successfully been using a schedule for at least like six months (preferably a year or more), it is probably not correct to name it.  

As far as this forum goes, yes it is mainly for lucid dreaming, but it also covers a lot of other sleep and non sleep topics.  This topic is under the sleep and dream section, not the lucid dreaming section.  Furthermore, the topic is alternative sleep patterns.  My point is that you can talk all you want about alternative sleep schedules because that is what this particular topic is for.  No need to refrain.   :smiley:

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## Placebo

Agreed, no need to refrain. I'm a mod, so if anybody says anything, just blame me for saying it's cool  :tongue2: 
Besides, it really is fine - this is in a non-LD section anyway.

As for naming your schedule, I don't see the harm really.
It's not like you're claiming it to be groundbreaking - you're just finding something that works for you and giving it an alias you like.

*Update:*
As for the 'lucidman' schedule (see, that isn't a 'proven' schedule, and it has an alias  :tongue2: )
I took my first dual nap a few mins ago. It was a bit late... so I'm going to have to stop screwing around with the times.
Woke up feeling fairly good, although the car was a bit hot.

Bit of background info: I'm using an mp3 player with my polynapping mp3 (on my site <here>, although the version I'm using is not listed)
The earphones are those earbud types (the ones that go in your ear .. and plug into your brain stem  :tongue2: )
And I'm using a sleep mask that I've drastically modified to cut out light as well as possible.

I'm sleeping in the car at lunchtime, or in the basement when that's not an option.
At home, I usually nap on the floor, however if it's for 2 naps at a time.. um.. I'll see how it goes if I just switch sides.

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## tendomentis

Okay, I realize that my over-eagerness probably is what offended. I'll keep my trap shut about the variant I'm on and what I'm calling it until I've got at least a month under my belt with it. After all, what it's called is hardly important if it doesn't actually WORK  :smiley: 

I'll still be posting updates on my blog, but I won't bother the forum with any details about it until I've had more time to win or fail at it.

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## Placebo

I don't see anybody taking offence - I just see miscommunication  :smiley: 
You're welcome to post a thread here with your progress... others are.
But you have a blog anyway, so I suppose it makes more sense to do it there.

It makes sense to have some presence here though, because I'm doing your schedule too

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## tendomentis

Understood.

I don't want to accidentally step on anyone's toes though. My blog has daily updates, so I suppose if anyone is interested in the day to day "as I figure it out" notes, that would be the place to read.

Next month I'll start a thread here with the results of the trial period. If it works, someone else might find it useful.

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## The Subatomic Level

> I don't see anybody taking offence - I just see miscommunication 
> You're welcome to post a thread here with your progress... others are.
> But you have a blog anyway, so I suppose it makes more sense to do it there.
> 
> It makes sense to have some presence here though, because I'm doing your schedule too



I agree.  You are more than welcome to update your progress here.  It's all up to you but an idea might be to keep a more detailed account of your adaptation on your blog, and just give us a less detailed update whenever you feel like.

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## Placebo

Honestly, I've been through the detailed blog thing before, and I'm just not up to doing it again.
So I'm not likely to give a thorough hourly report  :smiley:

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## _massive

Hey, guys!
 I'm new to posting, but have been reading quite a lot in the recent weeks. I have been trying actualy, the Uberman sleep schedule, but failed miserably several times. 
 Now I think I'm going to try the *Trinity* sleep schedule doing 1 hour naps. It suits me just right, something the Uberman couldn't do.
 I'm a student and I have classes in the morning from 9 to 11:15-12:00, then have about 2 hours of free time and class again from 14:00 to about 16:00-16:30. A Uberman could be integrated, but I personally don't like the small cycle of 4 hours. That is why I have now chosen the *Trinity* sleep pattern. I was thinking about something like that myself, bigger intervals and longer naps, but never gave it much thought. Now, however, I see that others are using it, so I'll try it and see how it goes. Kudos to *tendomentis*, btw  ::D:  .
 Right now it's 01:50 AM, GMT +2; and I felt veeery sleepy a few minutes ago. Right now I'm feeling ok, not that sleepy, but still very eye-heavy. The previous times I have tried alternate sleep patterns (Uberman), I didn't fail because I didn't want to get up or somth., I simply didn't get up at all. No recollection of alarm going off at all, so I'm afraid that I might again oversleep at one point or another. There are still good 2 hours till my next nap, so i'll have to keep my mind busy with something interesting, and no movies and games, those are simply dreamcasters for me  :smiley: 
 Ok, so, that's it for now, I'll post tonight, or maybe tomorrow. And excuse my randomness, I'm just very tired, haven't slept right for more than a week. ANd excuse my bad English, I'm Bulgarian  :smiley:

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## Placebo

Welcome, and good luck  :wink2: 
And your reasons are pretty much the same as most people doing uberman (either can't do it, or the napping every 4 hours just isn't convenient)

Update on my own progress: The night is going well. I've found a routine that works wonderfully for this lucidman schedule, that could never be done on uberman.

Namely, make yourself a flask of coffee, have the first nap, wake up and drink the coffee, go wash your face, whatever... THEN take the second nap
(ie. your second nap becomes a caffiene nap - caffiene kicks in roughly when you're meant to wake anyway)

In case you're wondering, you can't do this on uberman, because caffiene has a 4 hours *half*life... so you'll be constantly caffiene spiked - bad for your next nap.
However on lucidman, you have 8 hours between naps  ::D: 

Oh, and playing some intense online games doesn't hurt either. I planned on doing some exercise, but so far not necessary

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## tendomentis

@_massive

Congrats one giving it a try. I'm on day three, and I can report that it DOES get easier (you just have to suffer through the first few days, just like the uberman). As for those last few hours at the end of your waking cycle, what I can recommend is to stay ACTIVE.

For example, the 2am-4am time period I've left reserved for my daily chores (cleaning bathrooms, folding laundry, cleaning the kitchen, sorting my mail, etc). Whatever you do, don't sit down. Seriously. You'll black out and wake up hours later not even really conscious of what just happened.

When 4am hits, then you can lie down...and you'll be out like an electric light in the 14th century. Remember to put your alarm clock on the other side of the room, that way you actually have to get UP to turn it off.

Good luck  :smiley:  I really wish you all the best. I'm very hopeful that this schedule works for me as it is so much more convenient than the uberman schedule.

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## _massive

Thx man, I really find it hard to not close my eyes if I'm sitting down. I'll try to keep myself busy. And I'll have to get a desent alarm clock, the one on mt mobile doesn't seem to be annoying enough. Maybe one of those old bell-monsters would do the trick. 
 Whoa, I really am tired, but there is just an hour and 20 minutes left to my 4 am nap  :smiley:  Yay! Hope I wake up  ::bowdown::

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## The Subatomic Level

I am going to be starting a polyphasic schedule probably on saturday or sunday.  So thanks for the updates everyone.  Very helpful information, especially since I have yet to decide exactly what schedule I want to do.  Keep those updates coming.

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## tendomentis

> Thx man, I really find it hard to not close my eyes if I'm sitting down. I'll try to keep myself busy. And I'll have to get a desent alarm clock, the one on mt mobile doesn't seem to be annoying enough. Maybe one of those old bell-monsters would do the trick. 
>  Whoa, I really am tired, but there is just an hour and 20 minutes left to my 4 am nap  Yay! Hope I wake up



You're doing well, just keep moving.

Don't
sit
down.

That's the mantra I use between 2am and 4am. If you can sleep near your computer, download an alarm clock for your computer, preferably one where you can set custom alarm noises, then you can use random noises and songs to help wake yourself up.

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## _massive

Darn, I overslept again. I woke up in 7 am, 2 hours late. But this time it's my fault, I was just too lazy to get out of bet. I had to get up to get the alarm though. Then I thought I will lay in bed for just a minute and... woke up 2 hours later  ::roll::  with my mobile in my hand. But I was overlysleepy earlier, maybe because I'm doing something like everyman for almost a week now. I'll keep trying, I won't give up. I just feel awful after oversleeping, feel like a baby. Tonight I'm determined not to oversleep. We'll see how it goes.

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## tendomentis

> Darn, I overslept again. I woke up in 7 am, 2 hours late. But this time it's my fault, I was just too lazy to get out of bet. I had to get up to get the alarm though. Then I thought I will lay in bed for just a minute and... woke up 2 hours later  with my mobile in my hand. But I was overlysleepy earlier, maybe because I'm doing something like everyman for almost a week now. I'll keep trying, I won't give up. I just feel awful after oversleeping, feel like a baby. Tonight I'm determined not to oversleep. We'll see how it goes.



Don't sweat it, I did the same thing two days ago. The important thing is to keep sticking to the schedule, even when you accidentally oversleep. Your body just needs to get into the rythm, and the rest is just willpower.

I'm in the 2am-4am zone myself now, and I'm doing all I can to stay busy.

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## luke

> I must have presented myself wrong. I'm not trying to claim I've invented some daring new schedule. Polyphasic sleep patterns have existed long before little ol' me, and will long after I'm gone, so I'm sure that almost any and every variation of sleep schedule any of us could come up with has already been tried and tested.
> 
> If I offended anyone by asking if I could name the variant I'm using, I apologize. Aside from the lucidman variant, I hadn't seen anyone else name any other triphasic sleep schedules, and as almost every other sleep schedule has a "proper" name, I felt it only "proper" that this variant have a name too. I won't mention it again though on this forum.
> 
> As far as REM conditioning, I guess I got off lucky as my last two 1 hour sleep cycles did involve dreaming (just not the lucid variety yet).
> 
> I know this forum is mainly for lucid dreaming conversation (which I'm obviously also very much involved/interested in), so I'll refrain from taking up anyone's time with my thoughts on alternative sleep schedules.
> 
> Again, sorry to have offended.



No offence. I mean it is useful to refer to it as trinity schedule for the sake of referencing so we know what your talking about. its all good...

Anyway, I should be on an overseas holiday, but I'm not because my dad has taken ill and is in hospital. So I am going to stay home, today is day 1 of lucidman schedule and i am currently in the graveyard shift, between 2AM and 9AM. I feel absolutely fine because I foresaw a problem and decided to have a rather long afternoon nap. I also spent most of the night versing my friend in PS2 which is not very physically demanding. I will have to see how I go over the next few days to see if it is a success.

tendomentis, I've been thinking, if your sleeping schedule works, it's essentially just as good as lucidman because you are getting total 3 hours sleep (+30 minutes total laying in bed time) which is only 30 minutes more than lucidman which is 2 hours (+1 hour of laying in bed). So, it may be just as good, maybe even better, depending on how refreshed you feel.

@_massive
I don't want to blow your esteem, but at the moment, you seem to be having trouble and maybe trinity schedule is not great for starters (I take it you are a beginner). Don't go beating yourself up over failing the schedule because what you are attempting is hard for alternative sleepers let alone people who are monophasic. IMO, you should stick with a regular triphasic schedule of 1.5 hour naps and maybe a 3 hour nap at night if you wish. This will be easier than what you are trying to do at the moment because you already naturally complete a sleep cycle after 90 minutes so it is easier to wake up. Once you have cut down to 3 1.5 hour naps and you feel a bit more adventurous, then try to reduce your naps to 1 hour each.

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## The Subatomic Level

> Darn, I overslept again. I woke up in 7 am, 2 hours late. But this time it's my fault, I was just too lazy to get out of bet. I had to get up to get the alarm though. Then I thought I will lay in bed for just a minute and... woke up 2 hours later  with my mobile in my hand. But I was overlysleepy earlier, maybe because I'm doing something like everyman for almost a week now. I'll keep trying, I won't give up. I just feel awful after oversleeping, feel like a baby. Tonight I'm determined not to oversleep. We'll see how it goes.







> Don't sweat it, I did the same thing two days ago. The important thing is to keep sticking to the schedule, even when you accidentally oversleep. Your body just needs to get into the rythm, and the rest is just willpower.
> 
> I'm in the 2am-4am zone myself now, and I'm doing all I can to stay busy.







> @_massive
> I don't want to blow your esteem, but at the moment, you seem to be having trouble and maybe trinity schedule is not great for starters (I take it you are a beginner). Don't go beating yourself up over failing the schedule because what you are attempting is hard for alternative sleepers let alone people who are monophasic. IMO, you should stick with a regular triphasic schedule of 1.5 hour naps and maybe a 3 hour nap at night if you wish. This will be easier than what you are trying to do at the moment because you already naturally complete a sleep cycle after 90 minutes so it is easier to wake up. Once you have cut down to 3 1.5 hour naps and you feel a bit more adventurous, then try to reduce your naps to 1 hour each.



I have to agree with luke here guys.  Your health is more important than proving you have a strong will.  Even just having the guts to try a new schedule like this shows an immense amount of willpower, and no one would question your willpower if you have to take a break and try a sleeping schedule where you commit more time to sleep.  

STICKING to your schedule is VERY IMPORTANT during the first week or two of adaption.  When you oversleep, miss a nap, etc during this time it is believed that you are pushing adaptation to the schedule further and further back.  Sleep deprivation is not healthy for you.  Taking a few days to adapt is bad, but so are a lot of other things that we force ourselves to do.  Sleep deprivation for a month or more can be very bad for you though.  

With that being said, I believe you could oversleep once or twice (if it isnt much of an oversleep) and still adapt fairly quickly causing no long term ill effects to your health.  But if a slip up is happening once or twice a week and you never get a solid 2 weeks minimum of strict adherence to your schedule than I would take some time and seriously think about the consequences.  

Most of you have probably heard of puredoxyk.  If you havent read her site (www.puredoxyk.com), read it!  There is a lot of good information there.

CLICK THIS LINK It is puredoxyk's preview to her book.  Go to the disclaimer on page 6 and READ it.  You'll have to zoom by hitting the plus button to read it.  Pay specific attention to number 2.

I obviously dont know when all of you change from schedule to schedule, but I agree with puredoxyk's advice on what to do when starting up a new schedule after a failed attempt or after not completely adapting to the old one.  She says to make sure you take a break and get a few days of solid sleep in.  For most that probably means recharging your battery with 7-8 hours of sleep for a few days and take a few naps too if you like.  Only after taking a few days off should you try to get back on a new schedule and adapt again.

As always, best of luck to everyone and their schedules.  I am thinking about getting on a lucidman/everyman variation when I start a polyphasic schedule again here in the next few days.  More information on that later.

----------


## Placebo

Yeah, puredoxyk is definitely one of the sites to look at about polyphasing.
On the lucidman thing, I'm doing well on it now. It has a lot of perks. Of course it's early days though.

BTW, *and this is for everyone*: careful about posting links to other sites. The admins aren't very keen on unapproved advertising. I'm turning a blind eye to it, purely because I know you mean well, I know puredoxyk is a good reference site, and you've been posting here about polyphasing for a little while now.
Next time, just pop me a PM first, checking with me, k?

----------


## The Subatomic Level

ahh point take, didn't realize that was not allowed... is that a forum rule?  if so, i should read those a little closer when i have some time.  It makes complete sense anyway, this is just the first forum that I have ever started posting on.  

Placebo, are u sticking to your everyman schedule but only sleeping in back to back 20 minutes increments with a normal 3 hour core?  I'm curious as to how you are implementing the lucidman exactly.

----------


## Placebo

No, following lucidman exactly, cold turkey. Successful for the last 2 days now.

I failed on the first two days, but once you put a coffee nap as your second nap, it's easy to push yourself through the adapation (or so it seems so far)
The nice thing about this schedule is that the caffiene is  more or less out your system by the time your next nap rolls around, so no side effects there. In theory.

----------


## The Subatomic Level

Dang man that's pretty rough.

I'm not sure what to think about coffee during an adaptation of a schedule like this.  I would think it would make it a lot easier to adapt with hopefully no negative effects, so I'm not sure why some people say to avoid coffee at all costs during adaptation.  I just hope your body doesnt rely on it, and u don't feel like crap when you dont have coffee after the adaptation.

----------


## Placebo

The reason they tell you to avoid coffee, is because it has a 4 hours *half*-life, as I understand. This means that on uberman, you're never really over the caffiene, and this affects your sleep quality negatively.

On lucidman, it's essentially uberman, but you don't have that problem. So caffiene away! (timed well of course)

But we'll see if I'm still left standing in a weeks time before I proclaim a potential breakthrough  :smiley: 

BTW, I forgot to mention that although I'm doing cold turkey, I still soak in the bath in the mornings for up to an hour. That's a bit of a cheat I guess, and can be considered my 'easing into it', even though it's not proper sleep.

----------


## Neeros

I am going to be attempting my own variation. a 30 min nap every 6 hours. I will be trying this for the next month. I'll keep you all updated by posting the results in a seperate thread.

so 

|4:00-4:30am|10:00-10:30am|4:00pm-4:30pm|10:00-10:30pm| 

I estimate it will take 5 minutes or so to get to sleep so thats 2 hours and 20 minutes down for every 24 hour block. This is going to be a royal pain in the ass to adjust too but I think it'll be worth the effort if I can make it work, if not I am going to try the traditional uberman schedule (20min nap every 4 hours)

----------


## TempleGuard

> I am going to be attempting my own variation. a 30 min nap every 6 hours. I will be trying this for the next month. I'll keep you all updated by posting the results in a seperate thread.
> 
> so 
> 
> |4:00-4:30am|10:00-10:30am|4:00pm-4:30pm|10:00-10:30pm| 
> 
> I estimate it will take 5 minutes or so to get to sleep so thats 2 hours and 20 minutes down for every 24 hour block. This is going to be a royal pain in the ass to adjust too but I think it'll be worth the effort if I can make it work, if not I am going to try the traditional uberman schedule (20min nap every 4 hours)



How is this "your own variation"? This is dymaxion. And how do you need 5 minutes to go to sleep, after the first day you will need under a minute. Better check in google for dymaxion, it is a real hard schedule, but definitely doable. Gl.

----------


## tendomentis

> I am going to be attempting my own variation. a 30 min nap every 6 hours. I will be trying this for the next month. I'll keep you all updated by posting the results in a seperate thread.
> 
> so 
> 
> |4:00-4:30am|10:00-10:30am|4:00pm-4:30pm|10:00-10:30pm| 
> 
> I estimate it will take 5 minutes or so to get to sleep so thats 2 hours and 20 minutes down for every 24 hour block. This is going to be a royal pain in the ass to adjust too but I think it'll be worth the effort if I can make it work, if not I am going to try the traditional uberman schedule (20min nap every 4 hours)



If you're not already polyphasic, you might  have better luck starting with 45 minute naps every 6 hours, then after you have that down you can scrape the naps down to 30 minutes (Dymaxion).

Dymaxion is HARD though...even the inventor of it only kept it up for two years.

----------


## tendomentis

Perhaps this is obvious to everyone else, but having just lived through this myself I have a new found realization.

I've been fighting a nasty cold all week, and last night it finally all caught up with me. I slept for about six hours at my 8pm cycle.

I suppose that the more difficult tri/polyphasic schedules absolutely require one to be in near perfect health to excel at one.

Anyway, at 12 I'll be taking my normal sleep cycle. I can breathe out of the left side of my face again (hurrah for breathing!!!), so I'm getting right back into the Trinity schedule. I'm hoping a day "off" won't have killed it off completely.

I've been thinking though, does anyone else on a tri/polyphasic schedule take occasionaly "vacation" naps of 8 hours every few weeks? I've read a couple accounts of people on uberman and dymaxion who do that.

----------


## The Subatomic Level

I don't know of anyone currently on a triphasic schedule besides the few of you starting to try it here.  I'm actually not sure I've even heard of any success stories with it.  But I think after adaptation if you took an 8 hour nap once every 2 weeks or something it would be fine.

----------


## Placebo

> How is this "your own variation"? This is dymaxion. And how do you need 5 minutes to go to sleep, after the first day you will need under a minute. Better check in google for dymaxion, it is a real hard schedule, but definitely doable. Gl.



In fact, dymaxion has only ever been achieved successfully by the person who coined the term, to my knowledge.
I.e. in the polyphasic google group, the bunch of polyphasers I chat to, etc... none of them know of anybody..

So take 'hard' and replace with 'potentially impossible'
I wouldn't say doable.

----------


## TempleGuard

> In fact, dymaxion has only ever been achieved successfully by the person who coined the term, to my knowledge.
> I.e. in the polyphasic google group, the bunch of polyphasers I chat to, etc... none of them know of anybody..
> 
> So take 'hard' and replace with 'potentially impossible'
> I wouldn't say doable.



At least is documented, which is something I cant say about the trinity and lucidman.  ::D:  I think I read somewhere that 1% of the population can do it, which sounds doable, idk.

----------


## tendomentis

I think it's important to remember that the pioneers of polyphasic sleep didn't have previous research, vetted methods, or even a forum to discuss their respective attempts.

They just did what they could. Some schedules work for some, others don't. I think a lot of it depends on your motivations.

If you have a new idea for a schedule, I think you should be able to (at the very least) discuss it in this forum. I, for one, will encourage anyone who fails at one but keeps trying or who fails at a particular schedule and wants to switch to another.

For some people, Everyman works wonderfully. Others do well on Uberman. I think everyone likes the idea of Dymaxion, but confirmed success of that schedule is sketchy (that doesn't mean you shouldn't try though).

Lucidman and Trinity are too new (in the case of Lucidman) or seldom used (in the case of Trinity) to have a lot of documented success one way or the other. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to stick with the Trinity schedule until it either works or kills me, and I don't think the lack of documented success is stopping Placebo from giving Lucidman the good ol' college try (not that I want to speak out of turn though, so forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth Placebo).

Like I said, I think motivation is most of the battle.

----------


## Mad Stratter

Lucidman sounds interesting... I'm sorry if it's summarized in this thread and I missed it, but I'm in the "W" part of my wake-back-to-bed and i feel the "BTB" calling...

I did a search and can't find anything about it on the forums... can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

----------


## The Subatomic Level

> hey, this is very similar to my sleeping pattern. I named it LUCID-MAN because it was good at inducing dreams, i havent yet had actual lucids but it is only a matter of time.
> Anyway, I sleep every 8 hours for 40 minutes although I split the 40 min block into two seperate 20 minute blocks. That is, I sleep for 20 minutes, wake for 5 minutes, then sleep again for another 20. I do this 3 times a day with a total of 2 hours. I'm not sure if it worked because my alarm fucked up so somebody should try it for me. I found this was a lot more refreshing than a continuous 40 minute sleep because you are having 2 power naps. 
> 
> It is essentially uberman but you dont have to nap every 4 hours (one of the main critiques). 
> 
> Someone try it please.
> 
> EDIT: I'm an ex-bi-phasic sleeper but I am thinking of going back to bi-phasic until I get a new alarm.



That is basically it

----------


## Placebo

I crashed on lucidman, but it was most likely the family event that threw things off, not as much the schedule (coke, alcohol, unable to take both naps)

The family event was, diabolically, planned exactly when I was most likely to have my hardest night of sleep deprivation before things started getting better (3rd or 4th consecutively successful night) ... which was last night.

So only started getting things on track again tonight :/

----------


## luke

> I suppose that the more difficult tri/polyphasic schedules absolutely require one to be in near perfect health to excel at one.
> 
> I've been thinking though, does anyone else on a tri/polyphasic schedule take occasionaly "vacation" naps of 8 hours every few weeks? I've read a couple accounts of people on uberman and dymaxion who do that.



For the first part, I disagree. 
I believe that with these types of schedules, the worst you can do is switch back to monophasic when you are ill, because that will require transition and the pain of more transition once you get over your illness and you want to get back into your schedule. 
When I got sick on my bi-phasic schedule, I just slept for another cycle before each period, so I was getting more sleep (9 hours as opposed to 6) during that time until  weas feeling better again. This worked fine for me.
I can't speak for polypasics because they have to adhere to a schedule that doesn't let them sleep longer. So, maybe instead they should get another nap in there somewhere; that is, sleep seven times during the illness period. I don't think your body would kick up much of a fuss, and it is better than going back to monophasic.

And secondly, about the "vacation" thing, I think it's nonsense. I was told to do that on bi phasic after a month or so, but it is just a waste of time. You don't need it at all. I think it just undermines the purpose of alternative sleeping schedules, which is to become more efficient by increasing wakefulness. I mean, recharging with a 24 hour nap, as was recommended to me, is just distancing yourself from an actual, genuine "schedule". It's like all the polyphasics telling the monophasics to sleep polyphasic once every month because their bodies need to recharge from a crap 9-hour boring schedule. Yeah, I bi-phasicked for about eight months and never needed to recharge.

----------


## _massive

> ...hardest night of sleep deprivation before things started getting better (3rd or 4th consecutively successful night) ...



So does this mean that after the 4th night it gets atleast a little easyer? Because, after failing again almost a week ago, I decided to take one day off and start again in the evening. It was Friday when I started, so by now I have endured the first 3 nights (it's now 7:27 AM in Bulgaria). If that is the case, then I will have even more will to go by today  :smiley:  
 Btw, Yesterday was one of my most hardest waking ups ever. After awaking from my 12 PM nap I almost couldn't open my eyes. I got to bed (I was sleeping on the couch), turned the light out and almost gave up. Then I summed up all my will and driven myself up  :smiley:  After that I was like a zombie for half an hour, but then felt fine. It was very strange.

----------


## Placebo

The third night is usually worst for me, and it gets steadily a bit better each night after that - but only a tiny bit at a time, so keep up your guard for up to 2 weeks, and even after that it's not good to think of experimenting until at least 4 weeks in.

----------


## _massive

WOW! And I don't mean World of Warcraft. Nope, not Women Of Wrestling either. I just got my first lucid dream!  ::banana::  I can't feel more happy and excited about it. It's just... WOW!  :smiley:  It was very strange. I just got to bed in 4 AM (now it's 4:26, so you're getting it straight from the oven  :smiley:  ) and woke up 13 minutes later. I was dreaming that i was sitting on a stand of somesort, and was overhearing a dude's conversation with his girlfriend, or something like that. They were arguing I think. Then the dude came to me and sat next to me. We started talking like we were friends, but I knew we weren't. Then I told him that his problem was that he lets himself being controled by her too much. He said somth. and asked me if I wanted to grab a bite. He asked me if I wanted to eat a dyuner, and I told him that I was not hungry and that I ate a few hours ago. We started going to the dyuner stand, and it was itching at me to tell him, that I was a poliphasic sleeper.  ::D:  Whyle we were walking, I was actualy floating in the air, more like swimming. It felt kinda awkward and I was looking at him to see if he was looking at me strange for swimming through the air (I guess that was the first time I started getting lucid). Then we got to the stand and I actualy realised that I was floating and that I am dreaming. This is kinda strange, because I haven't done reality cheks for months. I got realy excited (bad thing, as I learned from expirience) and wanted to tell him. I started tapping him on the shoulder saying: "Dude, dude, that is a dream, that is a lucid dream". Then I realised I was waking up and tried to stabilise. "Look at my hands", I said to myself, I looked, but they weren't there. Then I said, no, no, the feet, look at the feet. But they, too, weren't there. Then I thought "No, don't look at the feet, spin! SPIN!" And I started spinning, but I guess it was too little too late. I quikly woke up. And, again, not to full extend. I woke up, but felt a weight on my feet, as if I was standing on them. I moved one of my feet and the weight went away. Then did the same with the other one. Then jumped and started laughing. I love it!
 So, I guess I should be going back to bed now. Just wanted to report, let the excitement pass away.

----------


## reff

Good work!
I still haven't had a lucid yet. I want to so bad, but I am too tired all the time.

I'm new to the forum, but not new to sleeping schedules, and have decided to give lucidman a go. But I have had problems waking up from my alarm, especially the second part of the 'block' in the early morning. Placebo, you have been doing lucidman for a week or so now, how did you get past the adaption period? You mentioned that you used coffee... I don't drink coffee, but I could start, just for the adpation period until I get the hang of things.

When do you take the coffee, and do you have any tips on getting past this difficult time?
Thanks

----------


## _massive

> Good work!
> I still haven't had a lucid yet. I want to so bad, but I am too tired all the time.
> 
> I'm new to the forum, but not new to sleeping schedules, and have decided to give lucidman a go. But I have had problems waking up from my alarm, especially the second part of the 'block' in the early morning. Placebo, you have been doing lucidman for a week or so now, how did you get past the adaption period? You mentioned that you used coffee... I don't drink coffee, but I could start, just for the adpation period until I get the hang of things.
> 
> When do you take the coffee, and do you have any tips on getting past this difficult time?
> Thanks



I'm not Placebo, but I can still give u a decent advice.  :wink2:  As Steve Pavlina say's in his Polyphasic Sleep Log, coffeine prevents you from having REM sleep, but that you should already know. What the adaptation period is for, is adapting to having REM sleep right after you fall asleep. Now, if you are prevented from having REM, how will you adapt? I personally tried coffe for couple of days, then stopped and almost fell asleep standing. So, IMHO, coffeine isn't good for sleep schedules. It may help you get trough the waking hours, but then you will oversleep a lot.

----------


## Placebo

Err... I'm busy answering a lot of questions on the google group atm, I'll post what I said here when I'm done.

But briefly , what massive said is true - caffeine is typically not a good idea, because of the time it takes for your body to get rid of it (3 to 4 hours half life, meaning that on uberman, you never quite get rid of it ... 6 to 8 hours to rid yourself of all caffeine effects means you're screwed.

However, this is a bit different in theory on a lucidman schedule, because there's a good 8 hours between naps, meaning that assuming your body metabolises well enough, you'll be rid of the caffeine in time for the next nap.
And I need not explain how helpful coffee can be to stay awake, I'm sure  :tongue2: 

Tips for getting past the 'difficult time' are as I mentioned on the email group - have a flask of coffee waiting, and all you want to do is sit up and sip your coffee.
By the time you're done with it, you're in a better state of mind to decide to get up.
And of course, use the mp3s to make sure you wake up, and if the going is particularly tough, keep a backup alarm in case you do something silly like pull the earphones out in your delusions/excuses for sleeping more.

Once you're up - walk around and wash your face, talk to someone/something, generally wake up a bit. But don't take too long, or the coffee will kick in too soon into your second nap.

After the second nap, you should find it easier to get up. A backup alarm is still advised if you're in the thick of things, but I didn't find that necessary.

----------


## Placebo

Here's what I said in emails:





> Thanks guys, I feel loved again 
> Now if only I could make a bit of a living from this. Free mp3s are cool and everything, but don't pay bills 
> 
> Anyway, I'm not nearly as amazing as you all think. I'd love to piss excellence, but I'm human(ish) too.
> Firstly, this lucidman schedule isn't of my own conception, but an idea of somebody on DreamViews (a guy named Luke)
> Although I did add the coffee nap concept and my own personal routine. And of course, my mp3s
> 
> He hasn't done it properly himself, and he named it lucidman with the hope that it would result in lots of lucid dreams (well, that'd be nice, but since adapted uberman normally gives me quite a few... it makes sense)
> 
> ...







> Again thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it.
> Do you guys mind if I posted some of this stuff on my site... when I finally get it together to revamp it?
> With reference to your nicks of course.
> 
> Before I go on, there are a lot of other tips that I never mentioned in those other posts.
> - Don't sit in the dark. Seems obvious, but don't be tempted to try. The brighter the room, the better, for reasons of day/night rhythm.
> - Avoid very heavy, fatty, unhealthy meals during adaptation, and don't eat within an hour or two of your naps. IMO rather delay your nap by up to an hour. Rather that than your body struggling through a bad meal.
> - Do some cardio (get your heart rate up) right after your nap, particularly the one before night time.
> - Snack on light and healthy food to keep your blood sugar stable
> ...







> Err... and that question of drawbacks got forgotten.
> - The coffee masks your ability to judge how well you're doing.
> - The long hours between naps mean that you ideally need to keep focussed on something that takes a while, at night when adapting at least. This takes a bit of planning and self control sometimes.
> - The longer nap time means you need to find a slightly more comfy spot. At work this is a problem I have, it feels like they deliberately avoid any private spots :/ I usually sleep on my side (sometimes on my back), so for my second nap, I tend to sleep on the opposite side from the first.
> 
> Oh, and I forgot to mention that using a sleep mask in the day helps somewhat. And finding a suitable place to sleep, which can be challenging sometimes.
> 
> - Greg

----------


## The Subatomic Level

"Firstly, this lucidman schedule isn't of my own conception, but an idea of somebody on DreamViews (a guy named tendomentis)"

I think you meant (a guy named luke)   :tongue2:

----------


## TempleGuard

Do you use coffee on every nap, or once a day?


Btw _massive, I am from Bulgaria, too.  :smiley:

----------


## Placebo

> "Firstly, this lucidman schedule isn't of my own conception, but an idea of somebody on DreamViews (a guy named tendomentis)"
> 
> I think you meant (a guy named luke)



Oh bugger... corrections in order. Sorry luke, somehow got my wires crossed.
Editting  all the posts now

----------


## luke

Yeah, just as well...
I dont want somebody else getting all the credit.
but I feel bad because I haven't really done much for my own schedule. Do you think I should start a blog instead of it being roughly mentioned in a forum?

Also, Placebo, I am interested to know where you have got those quotes from in that long post you did above...im interested in the mp3s and also what other people have to say about lucidman. And Placebo, are you getting lucids on lucidman yet?

Kudos to Reff for giving it a try, tell us how it goes buddy.

Myself, I have been doing lucidman for about 96 hours because oif troubles with alarms and not being fucked getting up, but now I feel I'm going to pull through the transition with no problems. So far, I have not encountered anything wierd or troublesome. I don't even feel that tired. Ever. But, it's still early days, very early days....Also, similarly to Reff, I do not drink coffee. I do do exercise though at least once per day (weights, jogging, unicycling).

EDIT: i'm just checking out your site now, placebo, nice...

----------


## luke

Another note, sorry about the double post, but I must tell that I have never done polyphasic sleeping in my life. So, I am very new to having little naps (i have tried poly in the past and failed, and have done bi phasic and even a little tri phasic) so, I am not sure whether my adaption symptoms are similar to that of other types of polyphasic schedules. So, yeah, disclaimer..


EDIT: Err, PLacebo, man, reading your website you had the following quote:
"1) What do you think the lucidman schedule should be called? (a better name for it)"

A better name??!!? (sobs) What's wrong with "lucidman"? And, more importantly, why are you asking your followers about the name? I mean, if there is an issue with the name, surely it should be discussed here, of all places!! As I have already said, i am not a lucid dreamer, although I get the theory (I dont remember dreams much since all my crazy experimenting with sleeping schedules). From what I understand, the waking up for five minutes is similar (correct me if I'm wrong) to the WBTB technique. And from my own anecdotal evidence, two naps is more restorative than a single long naps (I know this is all the basics). So, I do believe that once the transition is over, "lucidman-ners" will find it easier to dream similarly (and hopefully more so because of the above reason) to that of uberman schedulers. Until then, I think the name should remain unless A) Somebody thinks the name is misleading in inducing lucid dreams or B) Somebody comes up with a better name. At this stage, its really only me, yourself, and maybe Reff, and possible a few others that have decided to give it a go. And we are all at early stages (incredible early stages) so I think it is a bit premature to be labelling lucidman a success or not at enducing lucid dreams, and thus, the name should stay until option A) or B) take place.
Thank-you.

----------


## _massive

After some experiment, I decided to give Lucidman (or Lucid-man?, like Spider-Man  :smiley: , that's how you called it the first time ) a go. The Trinity schedule didn't work for me, because, when I wake up from a 40-45 minute nap, I don't feel refreshed at all. Instead, I feel groggy and tired for atleast a couple of hours. And I don't quite like it, so I guess I should try the Lucidman. Only I'll have to become more efficient in napping.

 Btw, Luke, the first time I decided I will try the Lucidman, I got my first Lucid  :smiley:  I know it doesn't have much to do with Licidman in specific(I got the lucid 13 minutes into the first nap), but it's a cool coinsidence  :wink2:

----------


## Placebo

Sorry if I gave the impression that I'm absolutely determined to change the name, but the reason I was interested in potential alternative names is for your reason (A) ... we don't know if it induces LDs any more than other schedules (yet)
The name might not need changing. Not sure yet, we'll see.

The quotes are from the polyphasic google email group, see here: http://groups.google.com/group/Polyphasic?hl=en

BTW, exercise is definitely a good idea, but try time it for sometime soon after a nap.

As for lucid dreams... to be totally honest, my LD abilities are at an alltime low at the moment. The simple answer is 'no, no lucids yet'.
But even when I do get something similar to a WILD with polyphasic sleep, I'm usually disappointed with it - they're not vivid and engrossing enough in my case. But I've always had problems with things like WILD.

----------


## TempleGuard

Even if it induces less lds I think the guy who thought of the schedule should give it a name. And there are many things in history, which were named wrong after something and they still stay this way after that. Lucidman should stay lucidman. And Luke, take your schedule seriously before Placebo (no offence) takes all the credit.
And Placebo, do you take coffee on every pair of naps, or ?

----------


## Placebo

Seems like I touched a nerve I never wanted to ... humble apologies.
I've mentioned the original creator's name a number of times now, both on the group, here and on my blog. 

I'm not trying to claim credit for the idea, but I do want to develop it into something that works for me (and hopefully others)

We can leave the name as is. Perhaps what I should be wanting to name is the project, not the schedule.





> And Placebo, do you take coffee on every pair of naps, or ?



Yes, but not always for the midday naps

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## TempleGuard

Updates?

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## Placebo

Still going, but last night was less of a success than usual - some family were over (damn family again) and we had a glass of wine and I tried a little bit of vodka.
I thought it would be fine, because this was right after my 9pm nap ... but nope.
Either alcohol is a big no-no with this schedule, or the schedule always breaks after a few days.

Still carrying on, this time I'll be sure to be more careful

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## luke

I haven't been able to follow lucidman lately because of the end fo school. I have not been able to get the 1AM-2AM block happening because of parties and drinking alcohol etc. But last night I did do lucidman and I had a dream, it was in my thrid nap of my 9AM-10AM block (I took three naps instead of two because I was not following it properly, and I was not ready to start depriving myself of sleep just after a night of monophasicking). But the dream was clearer than normal dreams so that was good. 
Sorry I haven't been following my schedule properly everybody, I am really not truly ready to commit myself. My dad has been in hospital for the last two weeks with bi-polar disease (it was hereditary), and I know poyphasic patterns can induce such illnesses, so I have been heavily de-motivated by the effects this illness has had on my dad. But, I'm going to go lucidman for at least a year and then I might change.

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## Placebo

Same. Broke the schedule again. This end of year thing just isn't conducive - I'm just too lazy and quick to do things I shouldn't.
My wife asked me if I'll be polyphasic tonight - I said 'nah, next year'  :tongue2:

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## TempleGuard

Are you starting again? This time for longer I hope.

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## Placebo

Yup, started already. But this time, I'm giving myself an hour or two lie-in in the morning to make things a bit easier to get used to.
Means it'll take longer to get rid of that though

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## luke

Well, if anybody has been following this thread (i know a few of you have) you will know that I have had trouble with lucidman espially with sleeping through my alarm. I would sleep through it, turn it off during my sleep, walk across to the other side of the room and turn it off (in my sleep again), or sleep through the noise. I had multiple alarms going off, i turned them all off, i had my phone on vibrate and put in under my body when i went to sleep, still no luck. I tried the old American Indian technique of drinking lots of water before sleep to wake up naturally, all that did was enlarge my bladder, so I yet again built up a resistance. This crap went on until I got so sick of it, that I took the final step, resulting in 100% wake-up from a nap/sleep at any time, and at any time during your circadian rythym (this works for people trying to wake up 20 minutes in).

phew....the solution is a special alarm lock.

The alarm lock took me about ten minutes to build and has been the best thing I have ever used to wake me up. I built it three days ago, which means I have set my alarm 18 times since I built it. So far, I have woken up all 18 times. 
Here's how to do it: take an alarm clock. find a shoe box (mine has a lid with a hinge). Cut a hole to fit the power cord through the side. Cut holes in the lid/flap and the side of the shoe box, such that a lock can be fitted through. I use a combination lock because it requires consciousness to open rather than a key (although a key would probably work provided you didn't leave the key at your bedside). My alarm also has an arial that flops out of the side hole (it's a radio alarm clock). So, I set my alarm, then close the lock, leaving the alarm lock shoe box nest to where my head lies. When the alarm goes off (you have to get a loud alarm) you scramble around for the light, then fiddle with the lock. My lock is really dodgy (which is good, so I dont open the lock too easily, thus not waking up fully) so I usually open it on the third attempt. 

I suggest the alarm lock for any person in transition stage of any type of alternative sleep schedule. It ensures you don't ever sleep through an alarm again.

With the help of my alarm lock I am back to lucidman, and will hopefully carry through the transition (deja vu? yeah, but this time I have the alarm lock...)

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## Placebo

lol, I love the inventiveness of people trying to adapt to polyphasic sleep.
I've heard crazier ideas though, involving powertools and water o.O

I've just had to put my alarm far from me, then I'm okay. So far.

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## TempleGuard

More updates from everyone doing this please.  :smiley:

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## Placebo

Bad news ... I'm still failing at it. After about 3 days I just crash.
No idea why, and it doesn't necessarily meant the schedule is completely unworkable, but it's not looking good.

I have to move to another schedule.. I need to settle on something.
It's tricky though because in Feb I'm going on holiday to family, and family are experts at breaking my schedule.
So I don't want to adapt to uberman if I know it'll be broken next month anyway.

I tried discussing it with my wife, and we came to a consensus, but now this morning she tells me that she's not sure it's a good idea after all :/
So it's still in the air

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## luke

Hi Guys.

Two days ago I officially quit trying to do any type of sleeping schedule after consistently failing to adopt to lucidman schedule and wasting time as I slept in.
I have now decided to devote my sleeping hours to trying to achieve lucidity because that seems like a good endeavour. That is, I am not even going back to bi-phasic, I am mono-phasicking until I achieve good lucid dreaming skills, then I will return to a bi-phasic sleeping schedule.

My decision has been influenced by a number of things such as the effects the schedule was having on me, the general lack of dreams whilst adopting, the temptation of a good dream life with lucid dreams, the effect the schedule could have had on my health, my job, etc.

Lucidman is still an enigma. Does it work? Who knows? Placebo is having difficulty, as am I, and I believe it should be attempted by people who are already in a polyphasic schedule such as uberman.

Lucidman is up for grabs, that is, I don't claim it to be "mine" because basically I doubt whether it works effeciently, and also I have not truly applied myself to it and don't deserve any credit if it is indeed as good as I thought it would be. But, any body can have a go if they wish, but be warned, it is hard, maybe too hard.  Don't let my efforts deter you, I really hope it does work, all well....

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## _massive

Maybe another Dymaxion case.
 It's funny that I had my only two lucids when I was poliphasic. I also seemed to remember A LOT more of my dreams when I was sleaping for 20 min a time. But, maybe that is the middleground between lucid dreaming and poliphasic sleep. Wolf napping, as I read somewhere, is exactly this. You sleep through most of the night, but never for more than 15-20 minutes a time. I think this will be awesome for lucid dreaming, because you can remember every one of your dreams, or most at least. Also, the dream transition seems more fluent this way, less noticable. I was able to achieve a state of relaxed consiousness whilist trying this, dreaming I am swimming with my grandma  ::lol::  Also, think of the many opportunities you get- atleast 20 WILD attempts, or, 20 WBTB attempts. It's a big world out there, explore.

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