# Lucid Dreaming > DV Academy > Current Courses > DILD >  >  Steph´s DILD Workbook

## StephL

I have put together a collection of my "basics" already once before next door in the intro class.

Reading through the material and workbooks of this course I came up with the desire to start a workbook in here as well.
Gab - your almost every sentence makes so much sense to me and seems to resonate with my take at it all - I´ve had to hold back on clicking 10.000 likes for your wonderful answers and explanations in here, not to clog your inbox to the brim..
Right - here I am once more - from the basics, which I copy-pasted over I have worked out some more detail now - and I will see to continue from there onwards.

I have a DJ here but some dreams will stay in my private DJ on paper - like most of the two from last night - maybe later more - maybe only tomorrow - I wrote so much today..

My DJ


*Day-time awareness practice:*

Being on the lookout for even mildly odd occurrences - like tipping over something, or not finding something or reading something surprisingly new...
To then - stop in my tracks and consciously pay attention to the concept, that I am right here right now + my senses and what they are telling me + looking back about 10 min. and analysing what I had been doing then.
Thanks to reading a post of Sageous yesterday - I have more of a grip how to handle me having been on the net or just working on the pc.
In as far as this is of course you in interplay with reality - even if just taking in certain information or putting it down/rearranging it.

I am on here daily and thus want to keep expectation and anticipation alive.

And I plan to work on my prospective memory in some way yet undefined.

A great side-effect by the way - I try to live more healthily!!



*Reality Checks:*

- Looking at my hands
- Trying to breathe with nose held closed
- Trying to remember what I did 10 min. ago

*Dream Signs:*

- Being at the place, I spent my youth at (Bavaria, Tegernsee)
- School and meeting schoolmates/ex-boyfriends
- University
- my old job(s)
- Trying and failing to achieve the simplest things - like not getting somewhere, or not getting somewhere in time - packing things up and something staying behind - trying to talk to somebody, whom I see in the dream, and not managing for some reason
- my (dead) grandmother
- not having enough clothes on in certain contexts
- lots more actually..

*Short-Term Goals:*

- well - gaining lucidity - I even had some of it in the last night and the one before
- finding a mix of techniques for certain circumstances that works best for me - going after DILD but also WILD incl. WBTB and DEILD
- keeping a dream-journal and not only trying to remember dreams for the day after - putting them down - reviewing them
- working on real-life awareness and prospective memory
- keeping the desire alive

*Long-Term Goals:*

- gaining control, so I can create the scenario I want to dream in, while dreaming
- gaining control, so I can accomplish tasks, I set up before I go to sleep - taking part in the challenges and getting these nice wings.. :wink2: 
- finding inspiration and maybe answers/insights into my psyche and maybe being able to resolve difficulties in real life
- working on my dart-throwing technique - it is possible to do something there with visualization and banishing mind-chatter (sounds a bit weird - I know..)

*Lucid Dream Recall History from before joining up here:*

I am pretty sure, I had lucid dreams in my childhood. What I remember is that I repeatedly "knew" I was dreaming and when that happened, I used to jump out of windows - esp. our kitchen window of my mother´s/grandmother´s house.
That would give me the momentum, I needed to go flying - it was actually "air-swimming" - so I did it in a later lucid as well.
I hope I master this a bit better in the future - superwoman like without the strenuous swimming would be much nicer!

First time around I gained lucidity later after consciously aiming at it was around me being 20 years old.
I had been reading Castaneda and took it all on face value.
This was not exactly a good thing in my case, since expecting to be in a real danger while in the dream-world followed from it.

I had been telling myself, when I notice I dream I will look at my hands etc. for about 2 weeks every night before falling asleep.
And it did work - I fully stabilized the dream with looking at my hands, till I saw every little detail crystal clear.

This was on different levels one of the most memorable and profound experiences I ever had - finding out, that waking reality as it appears is in no way the only one, that can be fully experienced with all my senses in 3d and fully realistic.
Primarily though - I expected to have switched reality-realms and - as said - was in real danger there eventually.

While pondering this - the scene changed - the walls of a cave which I was exploring for fun with friends suddenly turning to sand and come down from all sides on me.
With all the willpower I could muster, I transferred my consciousness back into my body - just to find, I was literally _unable to move_ or scream - no malignancy hallucinations luckily - I was just afraid to be sucked back to where I had just escaped from.
This was the only time such a thing happened to me.
The whole affair - the nightmarish dream and the full on REM Atonia afterwards kept me off trying again for years.
In the meantime I let go of my little and bigger "beliefs" - I would call them superstitions today - and took an agnostic standpoint.

A bit of a letdown - sort of - isn´t it just nice to imagine a world of easily reachable real beings of another realm and to believe, one can leave the physical body in form of one´s spiritual body and do really affect reality?
Well - it´s nice but also scary and I do see no reasons to believe such.
Instead I hope for first contact with aliens during my lifetime now...lol

So - then I came across Nick Newport in the process, and I think, I can say I have again been held back somehow, by expecting what he describes, and just not getting there at all.
I would say - the hyping of a LD entry per - basically WILD - but like he spins his sales-pitch per stressing the OBE aspect as if it was _the_ thing to learn might be a good way for him to disappoint followers of the videos on youtube so people go ahead and buy the books..
Right - not on here to slate him - maybe I am mistaken - but - I now see it so, that I had the following experiences rather despite his specific instructions.

What brought me onwards was repeating mantras before falling asleep again during this time - and I experienced a wonderful, quite long LD.

It also started with stabilizing my hands visually - oh - it was so lovely with hyper-real visual dreamscape, never before have I had such perceptions of detail and colour and intricacy where ever I chose to look.
I managed to conjure up the place I wanted to be at - not so difficult - my old childhood home comes up on it´s own often enough.
There I could air-swim again - and I met some people, I wanted to meet and have had conversations with them - it was pure joy.
This radiated into my waking life for quite a while - almost therapeutic.


- third was a semi-lucid experience - the same crystal-clear and beautiful imagery and short glimpses of the realization that it was a dream, but no real lucidity with control. On the other hand - I saw a procession of beings, which were so vivid and magically inspiring - it is still a memory I like to revisit - just a procession of people in habit of some sort of order - different groups with different habits - floating by and being just plain magnificent.

- one more instance, where I got lucid, but it faded around me almost instantly - I tried spinning - but really wildly spinning - I read now it is not meant to be done like that - bam - dream gone - only emptiness - and I woke up.

*Current Technique:*

- DILD
- WBTB/DEILD since last night!


I will keep this as intro-post and follow up with last nights experiences in the following one.

----------


## StephL

I am so very excited again!
After two days of journaling only I had a short lucid moment the night before the last one – just been looking at my hands and lost it again.

Last night now – I have two dreams in very good recall – I will not put them down in their main points in my DV-dreamjournal – too personal, but I have them recorded.
Towards the end of the second dream – I was in the room of my first boyfriend and we were at the computer, me showing him something DV-like – haha!! – when I thought of looking at my hands, already half-knowing I was dreaming.
I looked for a while, but again – it didn´t work like it did twice before years ago.
There were only my hands left, and I somehow woke up shortly and dreamt on – or so – not really sure, if I dreamt on in the first place without waking up.

I think, next time I rather use the environment for looking and rub my hands?

Anyway – what really was absolutely mindblowing:

Waking up later again – I tried to WILD.
Looking at the back of my closed eyes – waiting for pictures.
I was surprised, there were none – just greyish fog – and I usually can get some patterns going, when I want to.
Anyway – there I waited – and low and behold: BELLS AND WHISTLES!!
Well – it was so – a vibration started around my face and quickly spread everywhere in my body and grew in intensity from some susurration to quite a lot dssssssss.
It was so exciting – something completely new in the realm of experiences!!
And then – to really make it beautiful – an electric blue mandala-formation appeared – could draw it, still!
Yepp – too much excitation I guess – I was so enthused – I woke up!
Ah – but soon – I know it!

----------


## fogelbise

We meet again StephL  :smiley:  Gab recently recruited me to help out in the DILD area so let me know if you have any questions. Nice experience with your WILD attempt and your DILDs are working as well! The stability will come (or come back) with time and practice. For me, once I feel significant vibrations, the dream is only seconds away but they do say each person's experiences can be quite different. Your mandala-formation may have been the beginning of your dream if it came right after the vibrations. And yes getting too excited or paying too much attention to any of the pre-dream "noise" can work against you. A relaxed, patient mindset seems very important. Observing everything passively is better, at least until you get a feel for whether you are about to enter a dream or not. Thinking about it too much is likely to keep you awake. It is usually recommended to hold off on WILDs until you have more (current) experience with LDs. You did sound close though, so if you have enough time in your sleep schedule to put into your WILD attempts, there is no harm in trying as long as you don't get frustrated.

I do see one question in your post regarding looking at your hands in the environment...did you mean looking at your hands in the environment around you instead of looking at your hands in front of a computer screen?

----------


## StephL

Thank you for answering!

I also think, I could have entered a dream when that mandala appeared - somehow, stupidly, I think I wanted to tell my husband about the sensations more than go on in patience and really treat it as the door it is supposed to be.
Like - instead of entering - seeing a beautiful door and running away to tell somebody about the door...rolleyes.gif

With the hand-looking I mean something else.
When I do it as RC - there are no problems in real life.
But the two times I reached that state in a dream, becoming lucid and doing the hand-looking as a means to stabilize the dream to actually enter it lucidly - I failed.
When I do this - I take my dream-body hands up in front of my face - first time around this took some effort, the second time not.
Then I look at them with the goal to see them in detail and really realistically - fine hair, lines, normal shape - this did work at least twice before years back.
After having them clear and in detail - the rest of the dream was also clear and I was instantly in a 3D environment.
These latest two times - the first time, I got my hands like they should be, but there was nothing else in my perception any more at all - no dream - just me putting in - maybe too much effort.
And the last time - I didn´t get them to clear at all - they were blurry and bluish - and also no dream anymore left.

So I was thinking - maybe I should instead look at my surroundings - some object or location in the dream - so I don´t loose connection but rather instil myself locally.
And maybe rub my hands instead to get a feel for my dream-body at the same time.
I will give it my best the coming night again - last night, I wasn´t motivated enough to go for LD.

smile.gif

----------


## fogelbise

That sounds like a good plan. Yes, if you can see your hands clearly that is great but they often don't look normal, so if you have 6 fingers but it is nice and clear then that is great. If you do find yourself with nothing else around - often called "the void" - just continue forward rubbing your hands like you mentioned and eventually a dream can form. There are people that love to work from the void because you can sometimes choose the dream world that you enter from there...in fact, my feeling is, if you truly "know" that you will enter a particular dream world, it will work...have no doubts, just be there and it can manifest...it is your dream after all.

----------


## StephL

Bit weird - not a great idea to have two workbooks, maybe, on second thoughts - but since I write loads every day - I just take it in turns..
Getting mixed input - might be a good thing after all.

So - from my DJ:

Conclusions - Overview:
_Comment for in here - the last 3 dreams were me having high romance with all there is to it. The dream before is lost and there was no lucidity at all this night_

First of all - it is so great, that the journalling and general aim of lucidity and gaining dream-control spills over into my normal dreams and makes them so much more satisfying - amazing!!

Secondly - got to work on _readable_ notes in between dreams.
First dream, after which I woke up got lost because of indecipherable nonsensical scribblings - except the dart-board snippet, which I posted next door - that I can remember vividly.

Then - realization, that I actually always was and am able to re-enter a dream after waking up.

Lucidity:
I did my mantras and expectation-rising for DILD, but looking back - the real inner plan was more to do a WILD attempt after the first inter-dream awakening.
I had talked to my hubby - finding out to my surprise that he had sometimes what seems to be called EHS - extremely loud noises from inside his head while falling asleep - and he _hates_ it with a passion.
Told him excitedly to ride it out next time and try to WILD himself.

But - just like before several times - I felt tired and lazy and unwilling to try the WILD when the time for it was there - thinking - ah I will wake up once or twice more anyway.
Which I did - with even less motivation - see dream-content..rolleyes.gif
This is so silly - I know, it would have been easy to at least get that far as last time once more - that only took like 2 min. lying still and vibrations and optics came.

gaah.gif


Plan: _Really_ aim for DILD again, but _also_ try to affirm to not be too lazy and tired and disinterested in doing WILD when waking up inter-dream - Steph - DO IT - FFS!!!
Oh yeah - and - more awareness-practice!!

----------


## fogelbise

> First of all - it is so great, that the journalling and general aim of lucidity and gaining dream-control spills over into my normal dreams and makes them so much more satisfying - amazing!!
> 
>  Secondly - got to work on readable notes in between dreams.
>  First dream, after which I woke up got lost because of indecipherable nonsensical scribblings - except the dart-board snippet, which I posted next door - that I can remember vividly.



Dream journaling, I agree! I also recommend to find a way to highlight your favorite entries to look at later for inspiration...lucid and non lucid entries can be great to review and thus inspire you.

I have also had partly indecipherable writing in my bedside dream journal. I use the light from my phone to shine on it while writing to try to help try to keep it decipherable.

I have been meaning to answer something I saw you post somewhere about practicing darts in lucid dreaming...I think it could very well be a great help to getting better. I remembered to try it once during a lucid dream for a different sport and it was fun at the very least and it does seem much better than simply visualizing.





> Then - realization, that I actually always was and am able to re-enter a dream after waking up.



If you are able to re-enter quickly that can be great for WILD/DEILD, related techniques but WILD takes longer and is more for when you have fully woken up and DEILD for when you are in that transition in that you are only half awake, in my experience.

Interesting about your husband and EHS. Has he ever lucid dreamed?

When you were too tired to WILD, no worries! I was just telling someone else, sometimes it is nice to just go to sleep...you don't want to get burned out trying too hard or when you don't really feel like the time is right.

----------


## StephL

Thank you - yeah - I cut myself some slack - don´t have to go for it full-blown every night!
I´ve taught myself to write per hand without looking - but this only works when fully awake..
Happened again last night - I seem to always believe - because in that moment it is all fresh and I can remember a lot of storyline and details - that some hints would be enough for the dreams, where I wake up, and go back to sleep - but it´s not (yet, maybe) enough..

Unfortunately my husband never had a LD - but he would love to and talking with me gets his motivation stirred lately.
He does meditate - I don´t - but he has a huge problem with sleep-apnoe having to wear a mask - looks like out of intensive care or science fiction and makes some noise - we sleep apart because of it.

But now he knows the explosive noises in his head are a sign of him falling asleep while still conscious - so maybe he can use it.
When he was younger, he thought he had little strokes, when this happened..

----------


## fogelbise

I know someone that has to wear the mask for that condition...that has to be hard. It is good to hear that you are cutting yourself some slack. It is common place to struggle to lucid dream when you place too much pressure on yourself, which I found out for myself recently.

I could tell in your early days here that you would fit in real well here and you certainly have! You post a lot of good stuff on a variety of threads and subjects! Thank you  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

..Thank you!

I was just trying out an awareness-session-addition.
I often get lost in what I write for example.

So between posts or whenever
I have included to guess, what time it is.
And thought about what I might want and plan for the next hours as far as to the time, when I will want to fall asleep.
But where I expect myself to be in 10 min. as well - well - "here".. wink.gif ..

I am fine with me posting away for a while more today - also found out!  ::D: 

And also that tomorrow is Sunday - and what it will and could hold in store.
Not a lot of fixed stuff - but some - and one thing will be a week-session along these lines - maybe something nice to get into this as Sunday habit.

Looking back to yesterday I saw - it was a very typical Friday - my darting Friday.
Except that I threw the thirteenth 180 of my life yesterday - well, meaning almost two years - that´s the maximum and three times treble 20.
That was completely off my mind - together with more private but important things - nice to have had this side effect of doing a bit of time-framing with this.
It should also boost biographical memory, if done several times a day - well - you will always colour it at the same time.

So - happy days!
But I am not aware of my life in such a (mini-over- )view - yet!

goodsigh2.gif

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on the 180! Nice! I saw your photo of it on another thread and that looks very, very difficult. 

The awareness work is good for LDs and waking life.  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...ml#post2060886

 :boogie:  :boogie:  :boogie: 

Goes and does some retro-liking..

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome! Nice lucid Steph!! I am so happy for you  ::D:  and I am sure you will have many more if you choose to keep up your LD practices. Haha on the retro-likes  :smiley:  You definitely don't need to feel obligated to like all my responses to you  :smiley:  and I noticed I had neglected to like quite a few of your posts that I truly liked and guess I just read on and replied but went back and retro'd as well. Funny.  ::chuckle::

----------


## StephL

Yeah - funny system - but also nice!

----------


## fogelbise

Well, I was more laughing thinking it was sweet you going back and giving me the retro's when you really didn't have to. I also think it is a nice system that allows you to let someone know that you appreciate the time they took to post something that you found valuable, helped you, or just thought was nice.  ::D:

----------


## StephL

Yippee - A Lucid With Doing Several Tasks - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Huuuraaah!  :boogie: 

It was again a WILD try after getting up shortly after 7 h of sleep. But I again did reach a state, which was neither here nor there, so to speak, but it dissolved into awakeness repeatedly and after some minutes I was too lazy and rolled over and fell asleep.
Didn´t take much in the following dream to become lucid.
Just a pretty far jump - done by a DC leading the way - and I thought - how can she do that??


I feel it was a bit of a rush through the whole thing, wanting to get everything "done", which I had on the menu, so to speak - next time, I will take more care again as to dealing out my attention budget and putting more emphasis on the pure experience of the dream - not so much a to do list - but it is great to know, that I seem to have almost no problems with remembering my goals and also to access my daytime-memory in the dream.
Reciting the months seemed ridiculously easy to me, actually.

So - this must be good!
Ha - I look forward to these wiiings now!!

 :armflap:

----------


## fogelbise

That was great Steph!! :bravo: 3 different tasks!! The falling backwards one is from DutchRaptor, correct? Yes, you would just want to convince yourself that it won't hurt at all and have no doubt...perhaps imagine falling into a beautiful scene/bed/feathers...or would that be cheating? I will have to try that some time. Your control and your re-entry (sounded like a DEILD, correct?) all seemed to be done like a seasoned lucid dreamer!  ::D:  I am so thrilled for you! And like you said, now that you have those tasks out of the way, you can do whatever "suits your fancy" as we say in the states. And congrats on the wings, they suit you well!!!  ::D:

----------


## StephL

> That was great Steph!! :bravo: 3 different tasks!! The falling backwards one is from DutchRaptor, correct? Yes, you would just want to convince yourself that it won't hurt at all and have no doubt...perhaps imagine falling into a beautiful scene/bed/feathers...or would that be cheating? I will have to try that some time. Your control and your re-entry (sounded like a DEILD, correct?) all seemed to be done like a seasoned lucid dreamer!  I am so thrilled for you! And like you said, now that you have those tasks out of the way, you can do whatever "suits your fancy" as we say in the states. And congrats on the wings, they suit you well!!!



Thank you!

Yeah - from dutchraptor - the falling backwards.
Since I did lock my knees and really fell over - I guess it counts.
I did find out, that it did not harm me in any way - I had a notion of one of my vertebrae hitting the floor - a short slight pain - but that was it.
Not a problem at all - and could have done without the pain as well, I think.

Aand - yeah - you are right - well noticed! Hehe..
After the cat stalked off - I actually went off in a way as well - woke up - and did indeed re-enter almost directly.
Actually - directly - but not into the same scene.

Thank you!
I feel like it is really going nicely - hopefully I will not soon get stuck somewhere - but that usually happens, when you learn something - and in the beginning - you take it by storm - and than you got to do the work anyway - and learn it for real..
You can guess my metaphor, my pet comparison showing up once more, can´t you? wink.gif

----------


## fogelbise

::D:  Great!! DEILDs can be so useful! I don't think you have to get stuck at all, just peaks and valleys on your way to greatness! (Like a good stock chart that drops a little on occasion but the overall trend is up and success!) 

I think I can guess...but I don't want to guess wrong  :wink2: 

Cheers SuperSteph!

----------


## StephL

blush.gif

----------


## StephL

Morning fogelbise!
Here the promised report:
Didn´t work this night..puppydogeyes.gif
Like the one before - I think, I go back to my alarm-clock at 5 h after sleeping.
I do not like it, to wake up like that - but it "worked" all three times, when I made a WILD try like this - I got a DILD twice afterwards - and once I got the bells.
So - tonight once more it is!!
Cheers!

Oh - and started journalling again: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/step...agments-52998/

----------


## fogelbise

> I do not like it, to wake up like that - but it "worked" all three times, when I made a WILD try like this - I got a DILD twice afterwards - and once I got the bells.
> So - tonight once more it is!!
> Cheers!



Hi Steph! Since you really do not like the alarm, have you experimented with a biological alarm like drinking a certain amount of water before bed to get you up close to the desired time? Waking up needing to go to the bathroom I have found to be more gentle and more likeable though the timing can be off depending on how much liquid you drank during the night leading up to going to bed. This method also seems to wake you up at the end of REM cycles because you body seems to ignore the urge until you are having one of the mini-awakenings that we all have through the night but usually don't notice. I took a quick peek at the journal too and I sometimes sweat as well and usually kicking off one layer of blanket does the trick (if I catch it in time). The singing bowls sounded very nice! Are you still trying SSILD? Let me know if you have any questions as I almost always use it (among other things) on the nights that I get lucid.

----------


## StephL

> Hi Steph! Since you really do not like the alarm, have you experimented with a biological alarm like drinking a certain amount of water before bed to get you up close to the desired time? Waking up needing to go to the bathroom I have found to be more gentle and more likeable though the timing can be off depending on how much liquid you drank during the night leading up to going to bed. This method also seems to wake you up at the end of REM cycles because you body seems to ignore the urge until you are having one of the mini-awakenings that we all have through the night but usually don't notice.




The water drinking clock sounds like a good idea to try out - thank you - a bit more hydration being a good idea anyway.
My feeling goes - I am too mellow, when I just wake up automatically between dreams, and try something then.
Maybe the urge to go to the toilet can be enough of an activation, though.

Soo much do I not hate the alarm - esp. if it is not from deep sleep - I was more also thinking about that with the grumpiness.
Also Sageous advises against it - but anyway - I feel this is what I want to do tonight.

And I expect myself to be in happy anticipation, when it goes off! As a sort of mental prep - I might be able to pre-set the mood, which will ensue to an extent.
Might work.






> I took a quick peek at the journal too and I sometimes sweat as well and usually kicking off one layer of blanket does the trick (if I catch it in time). The singing bowls sounded very nice! Are you still trying SSILD? Let me know if you have any questions as I almost always use it (among other things) on the nights that I get lucid.



Hm - you mean catch yourself sweating in the dream and waking up and putting the blanket off and sleep on?
Somehow I think, I misunderstand you somehow..?

The bowls sounded wonderful - but no - no SSILD, rather following Sageous - with mantras, but I only made extremely meagre actual efforts - feeling too mellow, somehow.
I see, where you might see a connection, because I can´t remember to have had many "audio dreams" - so if I would have done a SSILD - it would have fitted as a first example of maybe a connection - but no.

I will see - not yet sure, what exactly I will do - bit of time left to make up my mind.
And definitively will I report how it went.
smile.gif

----------


## fogelbise

Definitely go with your gut feeling for what you want to try tonight  :smiley:  On the sweat/blanket thing, yes, I will often have a mini-awakening probably after one of my first cycles or second cycles and fold back one layer of blanket over towards the middle of the bed. If I remember and it is comfortable enough to do it as I go to bed then I just do it when I go to bed...my wife likes too many blankets sometimes.

----------


## StephL

Soo - I did not hear my alarm.
I used the mobile phone, which I do not use, when having to get up for work normally - or being on a call-in basis.
This night - The Monster - is going to be used.
I drank some water - not enough though - woke up after 7 h and combined with 15 min. up and a cup of tea - this was not too mellow - but too sharp.
After half an hour of trying both things, after each other SSILD and mantras - I felt not any closer to sleep.
Went to the toilet and did this and that - when I was then getting once more tired - I thought - once more - but only some affirmations - trying to get a DILD - also didn´t get a DILD.

I will catch up on DILD once more - read material and go on rc ing.
What I now came up with - maybe I read and forgot, though - once I change scenery - or once I think of it - I try to imagine, what exactly I would do if this now were a lucid.
Like in the mood and with the stuff on my mind just like now - and think something up.
Funny - not easy to throw on ones imagination in such a way regularly.

Back to the hard work it is - and a proper alarm this time around!

----------


## fogelbise

That is a good idea to do. At change of scenery do an RC, imagine it proving you are dreaming and then imagine and plan what you want to do in your LD!  :smiley: . The Monster...haha but I get it!

----------


## StephL

I have just answered in Sageous Class with almost the same post - I modified it a bit, though.
I mostly post over the day in my several classes, if there was something tried or happening - and often find new aspects - I pretty much think, this catches it for last night:
smile.gif

Ah - edit: When just now I did explain to NyxCC as well, why this is a "post-transfer" - I was also telling NyxCC about how much I treasure having my lovely three direct teachers - you two and Sageous - I feel highly privileged about it and am very thankful for your three´s close guidance!

Steph discovers a new species of roadblock:

The effort yesternight didn´t take place - but this last night I tried WILD again.
And I find it went quite well - up to one point always:

I was relaxed, didn´t feel my body any more - at one time it felt as if I was spinning slowly horizontally - more my head seemed to make a left-turn with my upper body. But not a lot - I tried nudging mentally - but bit more, and I would have moved.

Buut - maybe 5 times or so - I started "making something" out of what I saw on the back of my eyelids.
After some time of black - there were black and white and grey clouds swirling about - I could make these take on forms - and with a certain complexity - a real scenery appeared, and got clearer and clearer - each time another one.

But it was so weird - every time I came to see real details full colours and all - there was an almost physical surge to draw me into the scene, which before I had only witnessed "from nowhere" so to speak.
And every time, I just could not let it happen, not on purpose, it was more or less subconscious direct reaction.
I sucked myself back out.
It was really like having a short startle reaction, a bit of physical arousal - and like on a gummy-band - I got my consciousness back in my body on my bed.
And had to more or less start all over again.
As said - it was at least 5 times, and I really tried to be prepared for it, and let it happen the next time..
Nope.

Is this how it feels, when it works, as well?
And I just need to let myself get sucked in without excitement?
I couldn´t do away with the excitement - it felt like I was sucked from location to location in in real-life!
Not fear - but a general alarm-situation.
How can I counter that?

It felt as if I just about stopped it off, before a physical sucking feeling would have followed.
How does it feel, when you transit?
Unfortunately I went to bed so late yesterday (daaarts..Attachment 6003) - that I decided, I should get up to the day, and not turn around and hope for DILD.

Maybe closest to an actual WILD yet? Unfortunately again no LD last night!
 :Puppy dog eyes:

----------


## gab

The way you describing was my first way of entering a WILD. But I did it consiously. 

I got these visuals, that later turned into moving pictures and that's where my experience usually ended. I have not read in any guide how to actually enter LD from that point. They all just said "and now just enter the dream". But for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to. Until one day, I thought to myself "I wish I was there". Then I felt as I'm being transported inside of the dream. When i landed, my environment changed into 3D, and I was no longe an outside obsever. Since then, when I see a dreamscape ready ( I alway fly over it when I see it), I think "I am there" while looking at a certain spot inside the dreamscape. 

But it also happened few times, that I got out into a WILD, went a few feet from bed, and felt like I'm being pulled backwards to the bed, like on a bungy-cord. I was clawing at things to stop being pulled back, but it never worked. Not sure what that means. Sageous is really the best authority to be asking about WILDs, if he doesn't know, nobody does, lol. Happy dreams ::alien::

----------


## StephL

Yeah - exactly so, gab!
And you are right - now I think of it - it was also bird-perspective with me - not from nowhere.
"I wish I was there!" - ah - I am so new to it all - the understanding of there being power in saying something to myself is not yet ingrained.
But this definitively sounds like something to try out - whatever it was in the end - got to study Sageous answer a bit more.
He says it could have been three things, HI, entering NREM or dream-inlets.

Thank you a lot - I keep forgetting there is something like a "command-function" - also when lucid - like shouting out "more vividness" or something.
I am yet to try this out, too.
Maybe in present tense - like "I am there"?
Next time I come to have seemingly something to enter, and don´t get in - I will definitively try and clearly express a wish/wield a command.

Edit in: NyxCC has pointed me towards your WILD sensations thread - and - something I found in there, might be a very good clue:





> 1. Dream images
> First type of entry involves looking at the back of your closed eyelids. At first, you will see black and grey fog swirling around. Maybe you see some colors. Then you start seeing simple objects and geometric shapes. These will evolve into more complex pictures and dreams. You may see movie like scenes. *When these scenes change into one big movie screen covering your whole field of vision*, the dream is ready for you. But so far you are just an outside observer.
> 
> You may either *wait for it to envelop you* and you *suddenly find yourself inside* of a dream, or you may look at the dream scene, *pick a spot on the ground and say slowly and deliberately something like "I am there"*. This should transport you inside a dream.




Now it makes even more sense - the scenes were not yet covering my whole field of vision, when I tried to get sucked in.
It was more, the scene was enveloped in a surrounding of nondescript area.
So - chances are high, I did my conscious efforts sort of too early/the wrong efforts.
I guess, I should have gone on watching and see, if a full surround scenery appears - maybe then I would have been there - or could have tried the "thinking with emphasis" method.


By the way - last night - soo frustrating.
I was incubating a dream-sign of mine over the day yesterday - the house I lived in in my youth and which got demolished and I am still sad about it.
Visualizing it in detail and promising myself to RC.

And what happened??
I was there in a dream - and it was so realistic - wonderful.
Silly me stands there - looks at the texture of the outside walls - thinking - oh - thank the heavens - this is real, and not a dream about it again!!
Can not look so detailed if it was a dream - so it must be true, and it still stands.
Yippee - hurray - and I went on renovating and decorating the inside and dreamt together a story how this could all be!

gaah.gif



Edit: Maybe I did not RC, because I am not yet decided on what sort of RC to get myself used to.
One I can do in RL easily - and which is enough for believing it in my LDs.
They tend to be very realistic - at least on onset.
So the only thing, that convinces me to a degree, that I can jump out the window is the nose-plug.
But I am kind of wary to do it all the time in RL..
What do you two suggest/use yourself?

----------


## gab

I use looking at hands mostly, and that shows in 99.9% of my dreams, in which I do RC. 
Next is the thumb/palm RC. I stopped doing it though, because it has become increasingly painfull to do. Not sure why. But it is very convincing RC.
I practiced the nose plug RC a few times, and when it showed in my dream, it was a special treat.
I also practice levitating, or changing something. This one is the most fun to practice, because you can trully tailor it to your wishes. 

It's recommended you do at least 2-3 RCs at the time. And later, when your mind gets bored with some, you can switch to others.

I have never done RC in a dream and not get lucid from it, or I got lucid just before doing it, and RC only confirmed.

Lately though, I "just realize", that I'm lucid. I think this is from my awareness, questioning the reality and believing, that at any moment I can be in a dream, no matter how realistic my reality looks like. And I believe, this is the most important aspect of pracitce. To believe, that you could be dreaming, no matter how much you are sure, or how real anything looks like. That sudden "omg, this could be a dream" moment, when your stomach sinks and you get excited and a bit freaked out at the same time.

RE: entering dreamlets too soon.
You know, I was under the same impression for a long time. That I perhaps was trying to enter dream too soon. Then I read about some people entering even sooner and I tried it and what do you know? It worked. 

One guy enteres WILD, while still just seeing blackness behind his closed eyelids. Not even the swirly things. maybe it happened to you, when the usual, 2D space suddenly changes into 3D. It looks, like it goes on forever. Like it doesn't stop on your eyelids, but there is a huge space behind it. That's when he enteres it same way as I by imagining/wishing himself inside of it. I think I tried to get up/roll out during vibrations, or even sooner, and a few times, it worked. 

So, I'm not so sure that you have to wait untill certain point to exit body/enter LD. As to not ruin my attampt, in case I'm not there yet, I just try to stand up/roll out mentally. If it doesn't work, I know I have to wait longer. If it does, it surprises the heck out of me and I'm in a LD. Happy dreams ::alien::

----------


## StephL

Thank you once more gab - this night once more - last night I hardly got any sleep at all..
Okay - so - maybe not too soon, after all.
I really hope, that with some successful exits, I will "get a feel" for it - for the moment, and for the "how".
That would be great! Ah - firlefanz - it _will_ be great!
 ::alien::

----------


## StephL

> That sudden "omg, this could be a dream" moment, when your stomach sinks and you get excited and a bit freaked out at the same time.



I got it - I think, now I got it!
This - "but you should believe this is a dream, while doing the RC" - and - "do not acknowledge it, when the answer is, yes, this is reality" ... 
I couldn´t really grasp, maybe, what was meant there.. but seems now I can understand better!

I was on the way back from the supermarket - and what you wrote came to my mind - and I think, I did exactly that - conjure up a genuine feeling of wonder and excitement - _if this were a dream..omg_.

Weird - I have been also trying to imagine, what I would be doing, if now and here - it would be a dream.
But somehow it was clearly a _what if daydreaming_ - not having a real feeling with it.


Thank you so much - something just clicked on the street with me!!
 ::alien::

----------


## gab

> I was on the way back from the supermarket - and what you wrote came to my mind - and I think, I did exactly that - conjure up a genuine feeling of wonder and excitement - _if this were a dream..omg_.



That's exactly IT!

It's really hard to imagine, that right now, in this moment, you could be dreaming. Just because it's so realistic. I have always been a dreamer, as in fantasizer, so this actually didn't come hard for me to imagine. But only after I had my first few times, when in a non-lucid, I would tell myself to RC. My answer would alway be "nah, I'm sure I'm awake. But ok, I have read about this, so I'm gonna RC just for the heck of it". And then came the huge surprise, when I counted 6 fingers, or was able to breathe with pinched nose. So since then, I never take being awake for granted.

----------


## fogelbise

You got excellent advice from gab!  :smiley:  I almost want to stay back out of the way, but either way, me being here won't stop gab from chiming in. There is really nothing great to add with all of the great back and forth between you two and your breakthrough with making the RC meaningful.  ::D:   I did see one question I can at least give my experience with while keeping in mind that everyone's experience can be different...




> How does it feel, when you transit?



Like gab said, Sageous is the expert on WILDs (and gab much more of an expert than I) but on the ones that I have had they usually involved vibrations and spinning like you had, jet engine like vibrations and sound, and once a feeling of being shot up out of my bed which wasn't scary like it may sound, it was exciting. The vibrations are the only ones that I feel that I can nudge on, but the spinning I can of let it flow and on one I just remember thinking that it feels kind of like being on a roller coaster and before I knew it I was the roller coaster car and it was one of my more fun LDs. I also would like to try transporting into these scenes that are sometimes very developed for HIs ("walking and talking" HHs or dreamlets, but not yet enveloped) but I am still working on that aspect...my WILDs tend to be the patient style while slowly inching towards sleep. I have, like gab says elsewhere, also found success when "giving up and rolling over to go to sleep" a few times. It is a bit of a process and the more LDs you have the more you get a feel for it.

----------


## StephL

Thank you!
 :smiley: 
The more teachers - the more - slightly or more different angles of viewpoints - the more I can learn, I believe, fogelbise!
I had these vibrations and a mandala-optic in my very first attempt only - I know, everybody says to rather ignore them, not wait for them - but I loved this so much - something completely new to experience - I hope I get to have this as an entry/transit effect again.

This first time, though - I was so excited by it - I almost on purpose broke up, when they lessened - to go run and tell my husband.. ::roll:: 
Again - last night - not enough motivation, when I woke up for WILD.
Thought so before - that I should maybe concentrate on primary DILD more - but it seemed so easy, to get at least a DILD per WILD try..

And you´re right - gab somehow gave me exactly the needed words for getting my RCs "alive"!
Will report, if something happens..
Hopefully!!
The happening, I mean.

----------


## fogelbise

> And you´re right - gab somehow gave me exactly the needed words for getting my RCs "alive"!



Her experience shows quite well!





> Will report, if something happens..
> Hopefully!!
> The happening, I mean.



Your so funny; this made me laugh! (in a good way)





> I know, everybody says to rather ignore them, not wait for them



I definitely would not wait for them or anticipate them, but for me at least the vibrations show up when I am at the doorstep of a dream and I may have been lucky in finding a way to nudge them on...on most occasions. I have seen the advice from very experienced LD'ers that it is probably better advice for a beginner to let the scene to come to you but I can't see the harm in experimenting...especially with gab's "I am there" technique. I tried that one today too.

----------


## StephL

Something happened!!

Soo happy - not a lot of lucid time, I had - but some:

Two Short Lucids with Snowman-Efforts - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

My weird approach with WILD-try induced DILD again..
Unfortunately very late in my sleep-cycle - I suppose, that is why they were so hard to hold onto, these two.
But remarkable I found - both times I instantly knew and for sure, that I was dreaming lucidly.
Seems also some automatic hover-reaction comes with this realization - very good RC without even willing it.
And my first stabs at full-on stabilization repertoire usage and shouting things for control took place as well.
With not really satisfying results - except I made it snow in summer and very nice snow it was!
Next time - presents and decorate and animate my snow-guy!

 :Bliss:

----------


## fogelbise

> With not really satisfying results - except I made it snow in summer and very nice snow it was!



Awesome! That is a very significant result to make it snow in the summer! Great job!!!  ::D: 





> From DJ: "Woke up - but - was able to immediately fall asleep again and found myself back in lucidity."



This sounds a lot like a DEILD which is a type of WILD...but you would be the best judge of how it felt/happened. Either way it is an LD, I just thought that if it was a DEILD that you might find that possibility exciting...that you may have had one!  :smiley:   It is basically when you wake up and retain consciousness as you go quickly back into a dream lucid. In that other thread I was wondering if some of what I was counting as DEILDs were actually DILDs because instead of waking for real, I may have just "awakened" into to a false awakening.





> I went at is less than optimally though - with a mixed up approach throwing together breath-counting and mantras and a bit of SSILD - still unsure how to really go about it.



Something in there worked, so you may be okay mixing them together. I know the author of SSILD technique says not to mix it with anything, at least as a beginner, but I started to later on. Let me know if you have any questions re: SSILD since that is my primary technique (with my own adjustment to it) although I didn't use it on my last WILD...which is quite a shift for me...to not use SSILD at all.

Did you have any questions?  And once again, great job!!!  ::goodjob::

----------


## StephL

> Awesome! That is a very significant result to make it snow in the summer! Great job!!!



Thank youuu!
Yes - it _did_ feel sort of significant to me..





> This sounds a lot like a DEILD which is a type of WILD...but you would be the best judge of how it felt/happened. Either way it is an LD, I just thought that if it was a DEILD that you might find that possibility exciting...that you may have had one!   It is basically when you wake up and retain consciousness as you go quickly back into a dream lucid. In that other thread I was wondering if some of what I was counting as DEILDs were actually DILDs because instead of waking for real, I may have just "awakened" into to a false awakening.



When I snapped out of the first small lucid episode and woke up - I did a DEILD - and forgot to be excited!!
Bit weird even, that I did not name it so in the first place.
Was great - woke up - fell asleep - instantly lucid!






> Something in there worked, so you may be okay mixing them together. I know the author of SSILD technique says not to mix it with anything, at least as a beginner, but I started to later on. Let me know if you have any questions re: SSILD since that is my primary technique (with my own adjustment to it) although I didn't use it on my last WILD...which is quite a shift for me...to not use SSILD at all.
> 
> Did you have any questions?  And once again, great job!!!



Yepp - something happened!!
I do and will ask questions - later today!
Looking forward!

Bit tired already, the me - and not very coordinated now - maybe editing in/posting something else "tomorrow" - got lost of the "I" already..hm.

 :Off to Bed:

----------


## fogelbise

Yes, go get some rest  :smiley:  





> I did a DEILD - and forgot to be excited!!



Well that is a good thing during the actual dream, but yes, afterwards I think that it deserves a little celebration  ::D:

----------


## StephL

Juphuppdiduu!!

Again a DILD - this time really without any prep at all - I forgot to mention the one from the night before last night - so here a link to my journal:

Mini-DILD Again - And First Time Being Male - Singing Like An Opera Tenor - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I am very, very happy that they start to pop up on their own - even while these ones have only short duration and almost no day-time-memory and control.
Maybe this gets better.
Next couple of nights I go with full on WILD efforts again - these LDs have me in almost complete access to my daytime-memory and intentions.
And I have control in those and more time.
I decided, that if I manage to get a good LD with a TOTM done like this - I might ask for upper league after all..
Sensing that a challenge - something demanding and difficult, about which I can then post on here later, is an enormously effective motivation.

I´ll ask you what you think, if it is okay, after the two nights fogelbise!
Hopefully I got something for this!

Oh - and something memorable was this sudden switch in perspective - me getting male and singing like a tenor - intriguing!!
I wish I had done a bit more with this body.. ::D:

----------


## fogelbise

> Juphuppdiduu!!
> 
> Again a DILD - this time really without any prep at all - I forgot to mention the one from the night before last night -



Awesome! Two nights in a row!  ::D:  With practice you can remember to activate some of your waking memory when you become lucid...something I need to refocus on. One method to do this is as you become lucid and do your RC's and stabilization you can also think briefly only that your sleeping body is back where you left it and from this lucid state you can do almost anything....this is something I read from Sageous...of course self-awareness work during the day is also good for this.





> I´ll ask you what you think, if it is okay, after the two nights fogelbise!
> Hopefully I got something for this!



Sure, no problem of course.  :smiley: 





> Oh - and something memorable was this sudden switch in perspective - me getting male and singing like a tenor - intriguing!!
> I wish I had done a bit more with this body..



That is definitely interesting!  :smiley:  Have you been working on perspective during the day? I think such perspective work caused me to see myself several times and helped me become lucid.

----------


## StephL

Oooh - didn´t work!
Because usually I did my WILD activities lying on my back, and couldn´t fall asleep - I tried it out in my normal sleeping position on my stomach and facing to the left.
I fell asleep just fine and in no time - not taking my consciousness with me, though - and not eliciting a DILD like that either.
Naja - this night once more and on my back again.
It was worth a try I guess - at least I know now, that my intuition about this was right.

Edit: No - I didn´t do any work on perspective before last night - I am not even sure, how you mean it..?
And somehow I have the impression, that this pure DILD out of a normal dream, with no WBTB - it seems inherently less easily controllable/stabilisable..
Sure - with more experience - there should be no limitation on DILDs as well - it was just my impression, that it is harder.
I guess because there was no state of full wakefulness directly or shortly before.
I know, Sageous does not see it so - but I do - for me - for now.

But I will include this awareness of the fact, that my body is lying in my bed into the stabilization-routine.
I remember very well, how my first adult LD got hyper-realistic, once I realized exactly this - oh - and I got scared witless at the same time back then...
Wanting to find it and get back into it..

----------


## fogelbise

> It was worth a try I guess - at least I know now, that my intuition about this was right.



I would always bet on a woman's intuition!





> Edit: No - I didn´t do any work on perspective before last night - I am not even sure, how you mean it..?



The perspective work I speak of is a daytime practice that seems to help self awareness where you visualize yourself from different angles or perspectives. There is an old thread that has some interesting stories from different members with their experiences with perspectives. Link here: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...rspective.html





> And somehow I have the impression, that this pure DILD out of a normal dream, with no WBTB - it seems inherently less easily controllable/stabilisable..
> Sure - with more experience - there should be no limitation on DILDs as well - it was just my impression, that it is harder.
> I guess because there was no state of full wakefulness directly or shortly before.
> I know, Sageous does not see it so - but I do - for me - for now.



I agree, many times with a DILD you are kind of caught off guard and it can take time and practice to bring up more than just small samplings of your waking memories, whereas with a WILD or direct entry after WBTB you carry much more waking memories I find. I also find some types of FAs have a lot of waking life memory, but many only have a small subset tied to the waking hours it seems.





> But I will include this awareness of the fact, that my body is lying in my bed into the stabilization-routine.
> I remember very well, how my first adult LD got hyper-realistic, once I realized exactly this - oh - and I got scared witless at the same time back then...
> Wanting to find it and get back into it..



You are probably past that fear now, correct? Either way, Sageous suggests to keep it as a general thought that your sleeping body is back where you left it but try not to focus on your sleeping body since you want to keep your focus on your dream body.

----------


## StephL

> I would always bet on a woman's intuition!



Do trust your own - this works in men as well!  :wink2: 






> The perspective work I speak of is a daytime practice that seems to help self awareness where you visualize yourself from different angles or perspectives. There is an old thread that has some interesting stories from different members with their experiences with perspectives. Link here: http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...rspective.html



Oooh - I like it!!
This is really great - must be superb for dream-control - yay!
Transferring my conscious perspective into things or even light - fantastic! Will try soon!
When I read October´s TOTM special task with transforming into a whole family of turkeys at the same time - that made me pause.
I hadn´t thought about if this was possible - to spread viewpoint out like in a truly conscious hive.
Weird actually - since I came across the concept in science fiction before.
Still blows my mind, to be honest!






> I agree, many times with a DILD you are kind of caught off guard and it can take time and practice to bring up more than just small samplings of your waking memories, whereas with a WILD or direct entry after WBTB you carry much more waking memories I find. I also find some types of FAs have a lot of waking life memory, but many only have a small subset tied to the waking hours it seems.



Yupp!






> You are probably past that fear now, correct? Either way, Sageous suggests to keep it as a general thought that your sleeping body is back where you left it but try not to focus on your sleeping body since you want to keep your focus on your dream body.



I am and for a long time. That is what makes me opposed to superstition so much.
Many people of the beyond persuasion just simply refuse to think things through.
That is not why I came towards agnosticism with a strong lean towards atheism - it is not out of fear - that would be foolish.
I could imagine to be a simulation on some advanced being´s computational or other matrix - that does not violate the principles of physics and neuroscience* - but I find it highly unlikely.

Back then - Castaneda - thinking things through to the inescapable consequence of - maybe great danger - at least for beginners and on their own - I felt terribly exposed.
And the optics were more than realistic - and threatening to add to the atmosphere too - taking the possibility of dying into account - I was experiencing a cave coming down on and all around me.
So I then really concentrated on trying to have the perspective in my bed back and made it out into SP - luckily only the paralysis, no further threats - but you know - I thoroughly had enough of it - and so did my friend, who also made a similar experience.
That´s a shame!!
Long ago - no internet sources around.

But I understood what Sageous and you mean - exactly not what I did to wake up, but what I did before - but unfortunately on the basis of wrong beliefs - I got myself to truly realise, that my whole existence - dream-body, senses and all - was somewhere completely different than where I went to bed.
That brought the clarity - and the hand-looking from Castaneda, too, I guess.

*they would be ultimately meaningless, because they are also a simulation then - or maybe they would mirror some "higher reality-realm" - my bad - I hope in here, I may throw something like this about... hehe.

----------


## fogelbise

> Do trust your own - this works in men as well!



Good job Steph! You made me question an assumption of mine. First search seemed to uphold my assumption: The Power of Female Intuition and then this quote gave me some hope and I feel that thanks to my LD work that this is improving: "A 2008 study in the British Journal of Psychology defined intuition as what happens when the brain draws on past experiences and external cues to make a decision -- but it happens so fast that the reaction is at an unconscious level." I never really looked into it, mostly focusing on my logic but the quote above sounds a lot like a quick logic without overthinking things (which I often do)!





> Oooh - I like it!!
> This is really great - must be superb for dream-control - yay!
> Transferring my conscious perspective into things or even light - fantastic! Will try soon!
> When I read October´s TOTM special task with transforming into a whole family of turkeys at the same time - that made me pause.
> I hadn´t thought about if this was possible - to spread viewpoint out like in a truly conscious hive.
> Weird actually - since I came across the concept in science fiction before.
> Still blows my mind, to be honest!



I very much like that thread as it gave me a "whole new perspective" haha...seriously though, a highly under utilized concept in my opinion.





> I could imagine to be a simulation on some advanced being´s computational or other matrix - that does not violate the principles of physics and neuroscience* - but I find it highly unlikely.



They actually covered this theory on "Beyond the Wormhole" new episode that aired in the US on November 27, 2013 entitled "God's Existence." Last year that did an episode"Did We Invent God?" which I haven't seen. In this year's episode I believe the scientist who proposed this possibility pointed to the idea that if the world was a simulation there should be some visual resolution issues if you look extremely close and that scientist thought (quantum mechanics I think it was?) showed this possibility. I definitely saw it as a far out there theory.





> Back then - Castaneda - thinking things through to the inescapable consequence of - maybe great danger - at least for beginners and on their own - I felt terribly exposed.



I guess I am glad I never read his stuff...although I guess it gave you some perspective and experiences you might not have had otherwise.

----------


## StephL

First off - I could hit myself!
Alarm-clock was on 5 am - I woke up half an hour earlier - and thought - ah - I´ll wake anyway then soon with the alarm - maybe it is too early..lala.
What I "forgot" is my marvellous ability to not hear the alarm, when it comes shortly after falling asleep again.
This is also a problem with work - when I will take that up again next year.
Naja - fazit: Very grumpy Steph - at least I had another memorable dream - seems I have some gender stuff on my agenda at the moment - or this regretting, not to have used the male body came through - now I had a surprising lesbian affair - was niiice!!
Lucid Self Sabotage and a Lesbian Affair
Maybe it´s good - so lower league it is - if I can not even get my sorry behind more motivated in the morning - even on a night, that was really important for me - that´s where I belong..







> Good job Steph! You made me question an assumption of mine. First search seemed to uphold my assumption: The Power of Female Intuition and then this quote gave me some hope and I feel that thanks to my LD work that this is improving: "A 2008 study in the British Journal of Psychology defined intuition as what happens when the brain draws on past experiences and external cues to make a decision -- but it happens so fast that the reaction is at an unconscious level." I never really looked into it, mostly focusing on my logic but the quote above sounds a lot like a quick logic without overthinking things (which I often do)!



Intuition is like you say - your subconscious mind makes use of all sorts of data - figures something out for you - and it pops up with out all the background work popping up with it.
So - it seems it came out of the blue sky - but it is normal brain-function.
It has probably cultural background, that women are associated with it more - but without it - we wouldn´t get overly far in my conviction.
It is also like when you forget a name, or something else - you try and try to remember - but you don´t.
Then later - out of the blue - there it is.
That is probably the same mechanism!
Would be too much, if we had to actively and fully consciously think out and about everything.

Oh - by the way - I am often accused of over-thinking things - if that is a consolation - sometimes I fall over my own feet like this.







> I very much like that thread as it gave me a "whole new perspective" haha...seriously though, a highly under utilized concept in my opinion.



I experimented with it yesterday - and something really surprising happened:
I have a cuddly dinosaur toy - and tried it on him - and it was really impressive - I suddenly saw his big green nose in my field of vision - not a hallucination, but a very real seeming imagination. 
And around that a bit of his perspetcive - I also felt plump and as if sitting very solidly and I felt slightly silly in the head. If you saw his eyes - you´d know, what I mean.
Since at the moment he has no darts - I forgot to imagine having magnetic front feet - that would have been something interesting to conjure up:



I was surprised how relatively easy it was and how interesting it felt.







> They actually covered this theory on "Beyond the Wormhole" new episode that aired in the US on November 27, 2013 entitled "God's Existence." Last year that did an episode"Did We Invent God?" which I haven't seen. In this year's episode I believe the scientist who proposed this possibility pointed to the idea that if the world was a simulation there should be some visual resolution issues if you look extremely close and that scientist thought (quantum mechanics I think it was?) showed this possibility. I definitely saw it as a far out there theory.



They also do in the "What We Still Don´t Know" series. It is really the main reason, why I do not call my self atheist, besides purely generalized thoughts.







> I guess I am glad I never read his stuff...although I guess it gave you some perspective and experiences you might not have had otherwise.



To be honest - without him, I wouldn´t be here, probably.
I would have completely forgotten my childhood semi-lucids - and maybe never found an interest - or the patience with it.
I was putting time into it and real effort and also belief for two weeks - and got richly rewarded - bit too richly, though.

----------


## fogelbise

> I experimented with it yesterday - and something really surprising happened:
> I have a cuddly dinosaur toy - and tried it on him - and it was really impressive - I suddenly saw his big green nose in my field of vision - not a hallucination, but a very real seeming imagination. 
> And around that a bit of his perspetcive - I also felt plump and as if sitting very solidly and I felt slightly silly in the head. If you saw his eyes - you´d know, what I mean.
> Since at the moment he has no darts - I forgot to imagine having magnetic front feet - that would have been something interesting to conjure up:
> 
> I was surprised how relatively easy it was and how interesting it felt.



Lots of good stuff in your full post but just wanted to say that I am happy that you did that experiment with the dinosaur! It can be fun and insightful.  :smiley: 

Did you see this: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html Gave me a lucid the first morning I tried it.

----------


## StephL

Ah - thank you - I will look into that!
Aaand - what I found last night is absolutely phantastisch: the podcasts!!
They are really very informative and inspirational - and I didn´t notice them at all until now!

Didn´t go for WBTB last night - bit of tohuwabohu going on and me going sleeping very late.

----------


## fogelbise

I also love the podcasts! I am surprised I haven't mentioned them to you. I also learned a new term: tohuwabohu...I looked it up.  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

:smiley:

----------


## StephL

Oh - my bad - now I also looked it up!!
My grandparents and my parents were using it for chaos - but in the rather funny way - like people coming and going and disorganisation - nothing like the biblical void - my bad..
Now I learned some background to this word I use quite carelessly - I read it in an English book - and I assumed the exact same meaning - well - because it fitted in that specific context quite exactly..

No - I am not depressed and not in Old Testament mood either!

I wasn´t aware this is biblical - maybe Jiddisch from a grand-grand-grand-father - because there was another word once which I forgot now..
Oh well - thanks for having me learn this term in it´s full implications!  :wink2:

----------


## fogelbise

Oh, not at all.  :smiley:  I saw this entry search result: 

 In modern French, "tohu-bohu" is used as an idiom for "confusion" or "commotion". Also in colloquial German, "Tohuwabohu" means "great confusion";

----------


## StephL

Ah - good!
Na then - all is in non-tohuwabohu!
Except my sleeping cycle..

----------


## StephL

Weell - I guess, I could call this progress after total dryness in the lucid department for more than a week:

First of all - I had one dream, where I talked about lucidity..
Later after a WBTB WILD-attempt - I had a false awakening - but I didn´t RC - gaah.gif

Actually - maybe it was even more than one - I dreamt about being disturbed from a WILD-try (directly after doing one for real) - so I got up - in our old house - _again_ I didn´t realize this as a dream-sign.
Found another place to try - got disturbed again - maybe it even happened twice..
It could have been a WILD-try in a NLD, which actually could have worked - like CanisLucidus has described it..

Altogether I did two WBTB WILD tries last night - the first a la Sageous - the second (with the FA) with SSILD.

Naja - RareCola has advised in the podcast I listened to last night - to see even only dreams about lucidity as a step in the right direction.
So I do that - and conclude, that something more has happened last night than the nights before..

At least I RCed the two further awakenings diligently and thoroughly - I urgently need to make a real habit of it.
Not sure, if I might not have missed out on some FAs, which I didn´t realize even in hindsight.
Namely ones, which had me waking up in my room, supposedly - this one was identifiable by the other location - but only in hindsight.
Last time when it worked - it was also waking up in an unusual place - and that for the second time - _that_ was fat enough a hint for me..


Do you have special tricks on offer, how to recognize dream-signs, when they are never showing up in real life??
It would be so easy, if I could do that - my dreams are full of them - but none of them I can RC on in real life..

----------


## fogelbise

> Do you have special tricks on offer, how to recognize dream-signs, when they are never showing up in real life??
> It would be so easy, if I could do that - my dreams are full of them - but none of them I can RC on in real life..



You can visualize the dream sign during any day practice/RCs/RRCs and the like. Imagine that old home for example and imagine that you are seeing it in a dream and practice how you will proceed from there (perhaps RC, stabilize, think about goals). You can also use a mantra. "When I see (old house), aha! I am dreaming!" or similar...Not necessarily special tricks but humble tips.  :smiley: 

I also have some work to do on RCing during supposed awakenings and FAs, so I hear you there!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Thank you once more - and I found a post of yours - advising to try out writing down mantras lots of times - besides reciting.
When I have to really learn and understand something - I write out a lot - helps me to remember and really fix into my mind.
That is better than reading and even listening.
So I might try that out as well.

I did two little exercises today - and will see to do three more.
Imagining my dream-signs and me becoming lucid and reciting: "I see our old house - Aha!! I am dreaming!"
And the same with some DCs, who keep returning.
I really like the *"Aha!"* part of it!

Last night - I was drunk, when I fell into bed around 3 am or even later - pretty much normal proceedings on a Friday - but yesterday was worse - a mate came along later with a bottle of very fine whiskey.
As rarely as I drink this stuff - as much do I like it..

I might drag up a fragment or two from the haze of last night´s dreams later - but not even sure about that..
Naja - competition only started - this night I promise myself to at least journal properly, and see if I can not catch more than one full dream.
I should be able to do so - only usually I am too sleepy/unwilling to dictate.
I keep expecting, to remember the stuff anyway, when in these small awakenings .. ::roll:: 

I really think, the comp brings about a bit more seriousness in the overall-approach.
Like not fooling myself - and getting at daytime work for real and with concept.
If I have cobbled together a concept - a real routine - I let you know.

Yepp - that´s it for now - just a little report - it´s on me now, to make use of all the help and hints and motivation!
And I will - yepp!

----------


## gab

Good luck!

----------


## StephL

Thank you gab!!



Species, that are super easy to abduct:
*Not* giraffes!

----------


## StephL

How exactly do you do your WILDs, fogelbise - you said you integrated your own variations - could you tell me about this, please?

----------


## fogelbise

> How exactly do you do your WILDs, fogelbise - you said you integrated your own variations - could you tell me about this, please?



I got most all of my WILDs after doing SSILD cycles which usually just give me DILDs. My variation is with the SSILD cycles...I don't think I am trying anything new with the WILDing part of my process though. My variation with the cycles is to do two breaths focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back). This "warm-up" reminds me of how to focus on each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy to get the three points of focus correct. Then I combine the 3 senses into each breath. I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I am breathing out. When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep. Not being able to fall asleep on occasion is when I started experimenting with WILDs, sometimes with my sole intention being just to get to sleep but then when noticing the HH's I would remember various things I read about WILDing and experiment with them. Sometimes I would just fall asleep but more and more I was starting to succeed at WILDs. I found that my SSILD variation helps my WILDs in two ways. The first is that it does seem to create a bit of a trance like state which seems to help keep my mind from getting too active with "the noise" as Sageous says. The other way I feel it helps is like a WILD anchor, it is something to keep my intention in place while helping to create the fine line between just enough consciousness needed to become lucid and not so much consciousness that you stay awake. When trying to WILD I will do the combined cycles in each breath longer than when trying to DILD but may stop for a while especially if HHs. I may go back and do the combined cycles a few more breaths depending on if it feels right or if nothing seems to be happening. A few times I gave up, rolled over and only then did I quickly start to transition into a dream.





> I did two little exercises today - and will see to do three more.
>  Imagining my dream-signs and me becoming lucid and reciting: "I see our old house - Aha!! I am dreaming!"
>  And the same with some DCs, who keep returning.
>  I really like the "Aha!" part of it!



Me too...it seems to help evoke that feeling that the dreamer feels in that moment when they become lucid in a DILD, thus it puts a little more feeling into a lucid dreaming mantra I feel.

----------


## StephL

WhoopHoopDiSchnoop!!

Soo happy - I counted out 7 days without any LD - and now - I had one!!

Finally Lucid Again - Being Hugged And Swirled And Keeping Eyes Closed TOTM - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Thank youhuu!

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome Steph!! 

Great awareness recognizing a dream sign!! 

The wings look great!!  ::D:

----------


## StephL

Hehe - they do - don´t they?
Even in perfect colour-match - this set!
Of course I want the others, too - but these just really fit perfectly!

----------


## StephL

Now I have taken the time and studied your great answer a bit more.

thank-you.gif

By the way - how do you come to your name??
I wanted to ask this since aages!





> I got most all of my WILDs after doing SSILD cycles which usually just give me DILDs. 
> My variation is with the SSILD cycles...I don't think I am trying anything new with the WILDing part of my process though.
> 
> My variation with the cycles is to do two breaths focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back).
> This "warm-up" reminds me of how to focus on each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy to get the three points of focus correct.



Okay - so you basically do the longer cycles as a warm-up - with all three parts of the breathing, and twice - for one sense. CosmicIron did - as far as I remember start out with short turns for each sense - but like 15 sec. - so much more than two breaths.
And later then, he asks to do each sense for a longer time.
What you do could almost called "rapid cycling" ..hehe. Will try this out definitively!





> *Then I combine the 3 senses into each breath.* 
> I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I am breathing out.



Do you breathe completely evenly?
When I concentrate on my breath - like for calming down - I count on 3 (or even up to 5) in, 2 pause, 5 (up to 8) out.
I think my natural breathing has a tendency like this as well.
Do you consciously create an even breathing pattern or just use it as it comes?





> When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep. Not being able to fall asleep on occasion is when I started experimenting with WILDs, sometimes with my sole intention being just to get to sleep but then when noticing the HH's I would remember various things I read about WILDing and experiment with them. 
> Sometimes I would just fall asleep but more and more I was starting to succeed at WILDs.



So -when you come up with HHs from your SSILD DILD prep -_ then_ do you go for WILD?
I had them as well once in my tries (vibration and a "real" visual) - and I actually believe all the downplay on them is a bit weird.
Maybe some people have a problem with over-importance-attaching - but - I feel they fall short in a way.
So you say - when you get the HH - you experiment with various things - please tell me about these things!
I will really, really try - and I think, I can "get to"* that HH state again, with a bit more patience - but what follows then - in your personal practice and experience?





> I found that my SSILD variation helps my WILDs in two ways.
> The first is that it does seem to create a bit of a trance like state which *seems to help keep my mind from getting too active with "the noise"* as Sageous says.



Hm - okay - but didn´t you say, that you stop SSILD and then go for WILD, when that trance conjures up the HHs?
So - how can SSILD keep your mind from being too active with the HHs?

Shouldn´t the mind be anchored with SSILD on the senses, so that you do not fall unconscious, before you reach the portal? Or make you prone to be aware of getting these unusual inputs, when HH/the dream starts?
I can´t help to think of HHs as portals and are useful in some way to access a dream.
Do you do something like this - or whatever with them?
Just as an aside - do you get to feel a sort of SP (maybe just knowing, you are disconnected from your body, so you can´t move it - this then not being something negative, but actually desirable - like the vibrations - I mean - feeling them is a great way of knowing, the transition is imminent - and keep your consciousness on track like that?





> The other way I feel it helps is like a WILD anchor, it is something to keep my intention in place while helping to create the fine line between just enough consciousness needed to become lucid and not so much consciousness that you stay awake.



Yeah - that was what I meant - I just don´t get the keeping the mind away from HH part with SSILD - if you don´t even continue with it while they come..?





> When trying to WILD I *will do the combined cycles in each breath longer* than when trying to DILD



Do you mean, you still take optics for breathing in, hearing for pause etc. - just the duration of each breath is longer?
Or more breaths for one sense - I just want to make sure, I understand..





> but may stop for a while especially if HHs.



Exactly - so you _do_ stop, when there are HHs - and what do you do then?
Nudge them on - try to develop them?





> I may go back and do the combined cycles a few more breaths depending on if it feels right or* if nothing seems to be happening*.
> A few times I gave up, rolled over and only then did I quickly start to transition into a dream.



Again - so you do go about SSILD in order to get to the HH state - "something happening" when you want to WILD!
The question remains from above - what do you do - or maybe feel/let happen in the HH stage?
What I had after 2 min. was so strong and so typical - I believe I "get there again"* - just need a bit more motivation, I guess.
* I am aware they are an means to an end - and not the end, really..

Many people seem to feel - sort of morally bound to say: do not put any importance on HH (let alone SP.. :wink2: ).
But in the end - _almost all_ reports go like this - some technique - something happening - WILD.
I guess you do use the "happenings" in some way?





> Me too...it seems to help evoke that feeling that the dreamer feels in that moment when they become lucid in a DILD, thus it puts a little more feeling into a lucid dreaming mantra I feel.



Yepp!
This bringing in emotionality is great - like my little "aha - gab!!" moment on the street.

 ::alien::

----------


## fogelbise

*I should preface my response by saying that, in case anyone else is reading this, WILD questions should probably go somewhere other than the DILD workbooks. I may not always be the DILD teacher so I don't want to lay the groundwork for this being a much more all-encompassing job (volunteer job) for future teachers. I also am far from being well-versed on WILDs so take my experiences with a grain of salt. That being said, Steph has been such a wonderful addition to our DV community that I want to answer her questions that started due to our discussion here.  ::D: 





> Okay - so you basically do the longer cycles as a warm-up - with all three parts of the breathing, and twice - for one sense. CosmicIron did - as far as I remember start out with short turns for each sense - but like 15 sec. - so much more than two breaths.
> And later then, he asks to do each sense for a longer time.
> What you do could almost called "rapid cycling" ..hehe. Will try this out definitively!



Yes, except I wouldn't call them the "longer cycles" since this "warm up" takes maybe 20 seconds total.





> Do you breathe completely evenly?
> When I concentrate on my breath - like for calming down - I count on 3 (or even up to 5) in, 2 pause, 5 (up to 8) out.
> I think my natural breathing has a tendency like this as well.
> Do you consciously create an even breathing pattern or just use it as it comes?



I would say mine is something like 3, 1.5, 3 ...though I don't think of it so strictly. I sometimes take longer breaths and perhaps on occasion slightly shorter breaths.





> So -when you come up with HHs from your SSILD DILD prep -_ then_ do you go for WILD?



If I was either intending to in the first place or decided to start trying for one due to taking too long to get to sleep. So not when I am only intending to DILD...but also depending on the level of HH (see more further down).





> I had them as well once in my tries (vibration and a "real" visual) - and I actually believe all the downplay on them is a bit weird.
> Maybe some people have a problem with over-importance-attaching - but - I feel they fall short in a way.
> So you say - when you get the HH - you experiment with various things - please tell me about these things!
> I will really, really try - and I think, I can "get to"* that HH state again, with a bit more patience - but what follows then - in your personal practice and experience?



Honestly, the majority of HH's I would attempt to briefly note and kind of watch it only from the "corner of my eye" like how you can see someone passing by in your peripheral vision without directly looking at them. (I got this description from Naiya's similar scenario here: http://www.dreamviews.com/induction-...tml#post850578 I also found this useful: Why You Fail at WILDs - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views I did experiment though as well and early on it was more just visualizing something related to the image I was just seeing hoping to form a dream around that theme. Early on that would usually only result in great visualization sessions that were clearly not dreams. Other times it would seem to fill the time until the point in which I can feel my body going to sleep and external stimuli (noise in particular) silenced. More recently I have been experimenting with gab's "I am there" method and with Naiya's (see link above) changing what you hear or sense in the HH's to something dreamlike and/or desired. This is definitely still a work in progress. 





> Hm - okay - but didn´t you say, that you stop SSILD and then go for WILD, when that trance conjures up the HHs?
> So - how can SSILD keep your mind from being too active with the HHs?



It feels more like it keeps a little bit of consciousness going through these periods in which people normally go unconscious before going completely to sleep. So not that it creates the HHs, just that it makes it more likely that you will notice them. I think that they are always there, we just don't notice them. The SSILD cycles do seem to create a trance-like state that seems to last after you stop doing the cycles. This seems to allow you to notice the HHs without thinking about them too much unless you change your focus to try to work with the HHs in some way.





> Shouldn´t the mind be anchored with SSILD on the senses, so that you do not fall unconscious, before you reach the portal?



That may be the intention but for me it kind of works in the background and you are no longer focusing on each of the senses consciously but probably only subconsciously. 





> Or make you prone to be aware of getting these unusual inputs, when HH/the dream starts?



See above but also some of the HIs seem to occur well before the dream is ready whereas the SP-like symptoms (no longer feeling body or external stimuli - like city noises disappearing) seem to occur just before the dream, but definitely upon vibrations (for me at least) I am entering the dream.





> I can´t help to think of HHs as portals and are useful in some way to access a dream.
> Do you do something like this - or whatever with them?
> Just as an aside - do you get to feel a sort of SP (maybe just knowing, you are disconnected from your body, so you can´t move it - this then not being something negative, but actually desirable - like the vibrations - I mean - feeling them is a great way of knowing, the transition is imminent - and keep your consciousness on track like that?



See above. Some HH's are potentially more useful than others. Have you noticed how some are just brief images and others seem to have more of a plot or dialogue to them. I think these are closer to the dream but I am still a fledgling WILDer.





> Yeah - that was what I meant - I just don´t get the keeping the mind away from HH part with SSILD - if you don´t even continue with it while they come..?



The most important thing is getting to sleep since you can't dream without sleep. I think the people that succeed with interacting with the HH's are already at the door to the dream or know how to make their way to it or wait for it. So when DILDing I may stop because it tells me I am close to going to sleep and might be a sign that I can go ahead and drift off to sleep. When WILDing it seems like a good point to transition to WILDing techniques but again, I am still learning. I have seen Sivason talk of working with HH's as well but if I remember correctly he didn't recommend it unless someone is more advanced.





> Do you mean, you still take optics for breathing in, hearing for pause etc. - just the duration of each breath is longer?
> Or more breaths for one sense - I just want to make sure, I understand..



No, just that I do the repetitions for a longer period of time overall.  For DILDing I may stop after 2-3 minutes and for WILDing I may continue many more minutes until I feel like I am moving towards sleep or getting more advanced HHs. Even the initial simple HI's seem to interrupt the cycles and I may or may not go back to the cycles afterwards. I do if I feel like nothing is happening and I still feel like trying. I think that I may not be consistent enough with the specific things that I am trying which makes it harder to tell what is working the best, but SSILD is part of most all of my WILD tries.





> Exactly - so you _do_ stop, when there are HHs - and what do you do then?
> Nudge them on - try to develop them?



see the related answers above.





> Again - so you do go about SSILD in order to get to the HH state - "something happening" when you want to WILD!
> The question remains from above - what do you do - or maybe feel/let happen in the HH stage?



Again depending on the level of HHs some are better to ignore mostly like the ones with simple imagery, others are more like the beginnings of a dream and you may have more luck interacting with them.





> What I had after 2 min. was so strong and so typical - I believe I "get there again"* - just need a bit more motivation, I guess.
> * I am aware they are an means to an end - and not the end, really..
> 
> Many people seem to feel - sort of morally bound to say: do not put any importance on HH (let alone SP..).
> But in the end - _almost all_ reports go like this - some technique - something happening - WILD.
> I guess you do use the "happenings" in some way?



I have started to use them, but others like gab and Sivason seem to be much better at it. I think it is harder to early on...so still working at it.  :smiley: 





> Yepp!
> This bringing in emotionality is great - like my little "aha - gab!!" moment on the street.



These awareness moments are great!

Feel free to only respond to the parts that don't make sense Steph, as it will make it easier for me to answer any remaining questions.  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Thank you so much for going a little off topic for me there!!
Yes - I do understand you now - I think.

And look, look - I got one again!!
Lucid - Again No Animated Snowman - But Some Fun With Summoning - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

And it would even have been a snowman walking - I am sure of that - if not the stupid doorbell had rung me out of it..
I am anyway very happy - I even didn´t rip anybody´s head off after being woken up - out of character, almost.. hehe.

----------


## fogelbise

> Thank you so much for going a little off topic for me there!!
> Yes - I do understand you now - I think.
> 
> And look, look - I got one again!!
> Lucid - Again No Animated Snowman - But Some Fun With Summoning - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
> 
> And it would even have been a snowman walking - I am sure of that - if not the stupid doorbell had rung me out of it..
> I am anyway very happy - I even didn´t rip anybody´s head off after being woken up - out of character, almost.. hehe.



So awesome Steph!!! I am not so sure your lucidity was all that low though with you remembering to RC several times in the 2 LDs , stabilization and remembering goals!!  ::goodjob::  "Yes - I do understand you now - I think." -Let me know  :smiley: 





> And I had to RC several times again - not high lucidity, but high realism.
>  After that - I had nicely stabilized by hand rubbing and inspecting things closely.



There it is RC, stabilization...some memory there!  :smiley: 





> So I thought - meanwhile pretty clearly - lets make that snowman.
>  I saw a birch or otherwise white-branched tree - and convinced myself of that being snow - and it snowing back there.
>  I think, I get the hang of that firmly expecting stuff.
>  Instantly it started snowing everywhere and strongly, and there was snow on the ground, which didn´t first have to pile up like last time.
>  This second time around was so much faster and better.



This is great Steph! Firmly expecting! Most people take a while to get that!  ::D: 





> I am really surprised how much practice seems to really help with specific things.



Practicing in your dream?





> And then the damnated real life doorbell rang!!



So it was an FA with a bear at the door? haha

----------


## StephL

> So awesome Steph!!! I am not so sure your lucidity was all that low though with you remembering to RC several times in the 2 LDs , stabilization and remembering goals!! 
> 
> There it is RC, stabilization...some memory there!



Thank youhu! Yeah - the second one was quite lucid - in the first, I didn´t get rid of the fear - and messed up this meetup with the DC and almost believed all was real with blurry hands..
But then - I summoned this guy in the first place - very proud - never did that - lately, when I wanted interaction - I would go search a DC.
Which didn´t work a lot - I didn´t really _expect_ them to be somewhere - that´s the trick it seems.






> "Yes - I do understand you now - I think." -Let me know



Will do - which way ever!






> This is great Steph! Firmly expecting! Most people take a while to get that!



It works absolutely fantastic - really - I was even nicely able to do that in the first one - I just convinced myself.
And in the second - much better snow than last time I "conjured it up".






> Practicing in your dream?



I meant making it snow.
But now that I think of it - it might have not been due to practice - but changing method.

I also convinced myself - of the white branches being white - not because it was a birch - but because it was snowing back there and in general - and so it was - much faster, less effort-taking especially.
It felt like a chore last time - the making it snow - with shouting "snow" "it snows" and "I want it to snow".

Like sometimes - even vocalizing in loud was a problem - and all took energy.
While with this basic summoning - I had to just change my thinking - I did not feel energy being needed.

Do you have an idea on the following:
I had several times in lucid or normal dreams strange problems with talking - esp. loud or shouting (not always).
There is a story - when I had a nightmare - and slept with somebody in one bed - I got told, I would have talked out loud in my dream.
He imitated it - it wasn´t comprehensible - but it sounded like my problems in the dream in a way.






> So it was an FA with a bear at the door? haha



 :Big laugh:

----------


## gab

> Do you have an idea on the following:
> I had several times in lucid or normal dreams strange problems with talking - esp. loud or shouting (not always).
> There is a story - when I had a nightmare - and slept with somebody in one bed - I got told, I would have talked out loud in my dream.
> He imitated it - it wasn´t comprehensible - but it sounded like my problems in the dream in a way.



Not sure if there is a way to stop sleep talking. Maybe you could practice "willing" instead of shouting commands?

----------


## StephL

Thank you for answering, gab - maybe I just google sleep-talking - somehow I didn´t come up with that myself..
But yeah - for purposes of control - that I did.
Sub-vocalizing at DCs and expect them to hear it could be worth a try as well..

----------


## gab

Or imagining, that your voice eminates straight from your mind, bypassing your throat. I did notice a few times, that when yelling, I thought I can feel my real throat making sounds. Not sure about that though.

----------


## StephL

Why not let the mind do the talking - you are right - I will see, if I manage that!
I have heard often, that I talk in my sleep - but only once did it coincide with me having dream-recall on the difficulties.
It probably happens a lot to me - I sleep alone for a long time now.
Maybe the innervation of the vocalizing muscles is not blocked like the normal muscles - and this more pronounced in some people.

----------


## StephL

Purple Patch!! My Longest LD Since Joining Here - Maybe Longest Ever! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Super happy - quite proud - very, very thankful!!

----------


## fogelbise

Great job Steph!! You are rolling!!  ::D:

----------


## StephL

Jeeh - tonight I was sneezing and wheezing though - hope that gets better till x-mas - got it from my husband - not even a full dream remembered, I think..

----------


## fogelbise

:Sad:  I hope you feel better soon!!  :Sad:

----------


## StephL

Thank you - sure will - the cusp might already be over - or latest tomorrow!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

I am really wondering - I had dreamt of playing a huge darts-match in front of the sort of crowd, like they are at the moment at the Worlds Championship, which I watched last night a part of.
Had a lot of trouble, too - but won.
Now we play darts here at the moment - and I am really having a purple patch today - with guys, I normally am happy to come out 10:4 - I lead one of them 5:2 and am even with the other at 3:3 - won 8 out of 13 - rather unheard of with these two. And because I play better - not them less well than usual.
If it´s only effective wishful thinking - I take it any day... ::D:

----------


## fogelbise

Nice!! I recently had a sports dream the night before a recreational league competition and it seemed to give me a boost. Good luck! Maybe you are getting some of that "practice" in your dreams that we talked about before.  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Yeah - I won one match 6:4 and lost one 3:4 - they are normally better than me - not tonight - even threw a 19-darter - 18 was my best ever..

----------


## StephL

Just an update - not much going on - but some:

Monster-Rabbit And Monster-Dog And A DEILD Between Two Useless Mini-Lucids - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

----------


## fogelbise

^^at least it was practice and you got some RCs in, so not completely useless, but I think I know how you feel from when I have had short LDs...

----------


## StephL

I am want to wish you a wonderful and fulfilling 2014 fogelbise - you are very important for me - take good care of your lovely self - what you do for me here is invaluable.

And also huge thank you gab - you have a knack for finding just the right words for a light to go up in my head - may you live lucid and prosper in this new year and in general of course!

Where on earth do you get one on one teaching and day in day out and completely free as a gift?
This academy is such a unique place in the internet - a jewel!
And so are you!

flowers (1).gif

----------


## fogelbise

It's all you Steph! You are a very special addition to the DV community and I know there are many others who agree...others who have come across your infectious, inspiring enthusiasm!!  ::D:  I remember seeing something that gave me the impression that we may not see as much of you in the coming year and I truly hope that does not mean your total absence for weeks at a time!

----------


## StephL

Thank you so much - it will have to be less - but I won't disappear - surely not - promise!

----------


## fogelbise

I will hold you to your promise!  :wink2:

----------


## StephL

Ah - there is some movement maybe.
I had a short lucid yesternight - only consisting of me looking at my hands.
But that actually _after_ I got lucid.
I have no habit of RCing - but did 3 handlookings yesterday with mantra: When I dream - I look at my hands and realize that I dream.
After a week of none such things.

Now I wonder if I might not have been fully lucid - but did something artificial, which caused my eyes to be as still as in nREM maybe - and therefore lost it.
Anyway - I might just look at my surroundings next time - turn around rather slowly - and take it all in degree after degree.
Or try to blow my mind with pure viewpoint - _probably not that easy_.
But then - such words should be poison..

Grab something? Or rather leave a dream-body out of the equation?
Mainly hold on to the intellectual realization that precedes the RC.

What do you think of these quite spontaneous ideas?

----------


## fogelbise

> Or try to blow my mind with pure viewpoint - probably not that easy.
>  But then - such words should be poison..



I agree. I feel strongly that it is indeed poison to think in such a way in the playground of our dreams. That being said, you could always start with something more simple such as you described...a degree at a time. I have seen it suggested that the brain may not be able to process the idea of a pure viewpoint, but I refuse to let that become the truth in my dreams but I also have no current goals for trying it.





> Grab something? Or rather leave a dream-body out of the equation?
>  Mainly hold on to the intellectual realization that precedes the RC.



I would say that any of those things would work and you could choose the one that feels right to you in that moment. The later two could lead to some interesting experiences and would free you up from thinking about any limitations of your physical body or the real world and may allow you to do more.

 ::D:

----------


## StephL

Yeah - all theoretical - but somehow I have this nagging suspicion that while doing these certain RC/stabilization things - I sort of let loose on the intellectual realization-aspect by concentrating on them.
Needs to be tried out.
Had a semi-lucid last night - strange thing - I somehow, but not really knew it was a dream - more like a game-situation - I didn't consider to leave the story - but knew, I can do special effects.
Actually - I had a notion of it all being a movie - as explanation, why I could do these things - but also like having to do well in terms of performance - yeah - game or movie - unfortunate, I didn't really grasp it.
Got to do WBTB again - seems this helps with high-level realization and esp. waking life memory.
But nice anyway - to even get a little bit of lucidity - only two RCs yesterday and some repeating of mantras before going to sleep.

----------


## fogelbise

> Yeah - all theoretical - but somehow I have this nagging suspicion that while doing these certain RC/stabilization things - I sort of let loose on the intellectual realization-aspect by concentrating on them.



You do mean from within the dream, correct? Do you mean that your focus on the dream world and dream body are pulling your further from the realization that you are really back in bed? If so, a simple reminder to yourself within the dream. It could be as simple as "I am dreaming" or "remember."   You can "practice" it during the day with your RC's and think about it before or after your mantras before your go to sleep.  Intent, focus or thoughts about LDing right before you go to sleep are very helpful.

----------


## StephL

Hi fogelbise!

Bit unhappy with my LD-activities - got this multi-alarm thing now - but I need to build up a real motivation - do some daytime work - not let my inertia take the better of me.
Don't know, what it is - I guess it happens to people - and they stop the LDing in that sort of context - I hope sincerely I will not.
No I won't!!

 :armflap: 

Do you sometimes use alarms - forgot that - how do you use them - if you do?

----------


## fogelbise

> Hi fogelbise!
> 
> Bit unhappy with my LD-activities - got this multi-alarm thing now - but I need to build up a real motivation - do some daytime work - not let my inertia take the better of me.
> Don't know, what it is - I guess it happens to people - and they stop the LDing in that sort of context - I hope sincerely I will not.
> No I won't!!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you sometimes use alarms - forgot that - how do you use them - if you do?



Please do keep it up! Read or relive some of your favorite lucid dreams to give you motivation. I just came off of a week of inertia and realized the importance of doing the day work and got back to it. I used the multiple alarm method for maybe one week, had a couple of LDs from it but then the last couple of days left me feeling tired. I plan to go back and try it at some point though. I had it auto snooze after sounding the alarm for 3 or 5 seconds(experimented with both) with the the snooze duration at 20 minutes (alarm wouldn't sound again until 20 minutes later). Good luck!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Yeeah!! Bit of progress! HHs on a WILD try second time of my life!!
Since I typed a lot into my DJ - I copy-past the side notes over:

The dream, I journalled today had almost an overload of dream-signs:

Geographical setting around lake I grew up close to
Looking and finding a place to move in for living
Swimming
Searching luggage and getting frustrated
Ex-boyfriend
Not being able to speak

Six of them in one dream - and I stayed happily non-lucid.

Made a mistake with my alarms - the app needs to be open, for them to go off - I noted, it was not - but my dictation-thing, when I woke up naturally quite late.
Was awake for the next one still then - and the one after that woke me up - and I tried it out as a micro-WBTB with mantra - in the end I fell asleep to a non-lucid.

*Buuut:* before that was a short phase of - very short - disappeared once I got a bit excited about it - *HH*!!  ::banana:: 

And pretty strong ones - bit of vibration and a strong feeling of weightlessness - but at the same time movement - swerving about - even falling.
That was the second time of my life, I had strong bodily HH - any HH, actually - first one was after a longer WBTB and 2 min. of just looking at the back of my eyelids on a WILD try - on my second ever WILD try!!

And such I made a lot of tries the last two months up to half an hour - never again with HH or success in WILD - but quite often with a following DILD.
I guess, I need them some more times, before I can avoid getting so positively excited about it..
This is progress towards WILD, though - and makes me very happy indeed!

It was not on my back but in my usual position on my stomach and turned to the right.

----------


## fogelbise

Nice job! I think you were close indeed!  :smiley:  Have you been able to get back to the day work?

----------


## StephL

A tiny little bit! Will be more from now on!

----------


## fogelbise

> A tiny little bit! Will be more from now on!



I have to find the motivation from time to time and recalling and/or reading my favorite LDs helps me a lot.

----------


## StephL

::yddd:: 

My First Alarm DEILD!! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I was out last night - watching the première of a movie the husband of a friend is the director of - was great - aand - both were fascinated, when later I told them about LD.
He even told me, he would have some lucidity - but only for the very last moments in a dream - and he would always wake up almost with or from the realization.
Since the movies he not only directs, but also writes, are a lot about psychological stuff - for example how people deal with violence in the family - I guess, he could really bite.
Dreaming big, the me - maybe he makes a movie on it one day, if he happens to learn and love it properly!!
Now that would be something!!
But his wife - my friend - she did indeed already know, what LD is, and has read about it - just never had one/remembers none.
So it sort of_ must_ be something about Germany - and/or my "intellectual" circle of friends..

Weell - very, very happy - that was one heck of a dry spell I got myself - also by waiting for that app and suspending business up to then.
But now I am freshly motivated to do proper daytime work with recall/prospective memory and awareness!!
Edit - this is what I use:   Alarm Clock Bud Pro for IPhone

 ::yddd::

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on the success Steph!!!  ::D:  That is also so cool that you are able to talk to many different people about lucid dreaming!

----------


## StephL

Yeah - and I still am yet to come across so much as a little doubt about the reality of the phenomenon - also no decided disinterest and change of subject ever - really quite the opposite.
It was a good topic yesterday - something interesting - I triggered fascination!
And am full of hope for my own further activities, too - that was not so nice - don't know, how long - but 3 weeks of dry spell, I guess.

----------


## fogelbise

Full of hope! Great!  ::D:  Those dry spells can get shorter and shorter with the right approach.  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

I'm back on the roll it looks like!!
I had RRCd more seriously when I joined up, and still didn't have one - but after that - if I made 5 of them in the day - that was rather a lot.. :Oops: 
Taking into account the bit embarrassing fact, that I tend to repeatedly encounter dream-toilets - I did one every single time I went irl - and some more for good measure.
This definitively helped!!
Before the following excerpt - I had locked myself into a small room - and that locking of the door by turning around a knob so something outside went to red - that did it.
And I am now very much on nose-plug. But with looking back 10 min. - checking all senses for lack of input, clarity or weirdness.
In the day - I had breathed out fully first - that makes it more convincing - esp. if you got to really snap for air irl after re-opening.
I kept thinking I cheat the first several times I used it in a dream.

This is what I got: LD Even Before The Alarms!! Well - Lucid Fragments In Another Dream - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Excerpt:





> But what came to my mind this time wasn't darts or TOTMs - but dutchraptors 5 lucid criteria.
> I knew that I was dreaming - I remembered these criteria - and decided to break through a closed window.
> First I touched the glass - and then I just pushed my lower arms through.
> What happened when I broke through was, that this window behaved, as if it had been a thin plastic foil with some metal-foil mimicking a mirror then.
> So then I was outside and hovering like 2 m over the ground - and wanted to make sure, I know there are no consequences to what I do.
> There was a group of people standing about - and I took a long stick from a tree - and poked them.
> I know..
> At least I didn't care, what they thought of me. They looked a bit afraid, asked what that was all about - but didn't leave.
> Well yeah - and I was on the one hand able to contemplate, that it constituted a failure not to do more - on the other hand - I couldn't bring myself to seriously hurt or kill somebody. 
> With that I lost lucidity.

----------


## fogelbise

.
Congratulations on your lucid Steph!!  ::D: 





> There was a group of people standing about - and I took a long stick from a tree - and poked them.
>  I know..



This had me laughing! I really like though that you are using Dutchraptor's criteria. I will have to look up that thread as I remember reading it at some point and liked the thinking behind it...assuming I am thinking of the same one. It's obvious to me from my LDs that I know there are no consequences, but I have never tried to kill myself in a lucid and wouldn't see the point in something like that example.

----------


## FryingMan

Speaking of Dutchraptor I don't think I'd every be able take a bite from a tree....haha OK now I have to do it.    Next time I'm lucid and see a tree.... probably will taste like "Grape Nuts"!

----------


## StephL

> .
> Congratulations on your lucid Steph!! 
> 
> This had me laughing! I really like though that you are using Dutchraptor's criteria. I will have to look up that thread as I remember reading it at some point and liked the thinking behind it...assuming I am thinking of the same one. It's obvious to me from my LDs that I know there are no consequences, but I have never tried to kill myself in a lucid and wouldn't see the point in something like that example.



Thank youhuu!
Yeah - actually, I think, I did enough with molesting them.
Unfortunately the whole action ended lucidity in some way - it's the last I remember - hovering up there and not wanting to make the dream really nasty.
The most important thing for me I believe, is preparing myself so, that I take a moment to really consider, what my options are, and what I want.
I was pretty "reasonable" in that LD - but didn't take enough time to actually think and remember.
It was not bad like this - I had read his lesson 1 in the academy before going to sleep - and it was the first time, that I pushed my hands through a closed window - or any other solid thing.
It was interesting - I was a bit worried, if it might hurt or something - and it was a strange feeling - as I said like ripping through a taut plastic foil. So - in actuality - I didn't phase through a closed window, but transformed the glass into something, where I could break through just like that.
There is more to be learned there, still.





> Speaking of Dutchraptor I don't think I'd every be able take a bite from a tree....haha OK now I have to do it.    Next time I'm lucid and see a tree.... probably will taste like "Grape Nuts"!



Hehe - do that!
Once when I concentrated on all sorts of stabilization things - and lost the LD while doing so - I had kneed down on a meadow - and smelt the grass - but when I put a bit of clover in my mouth - it didn't taste, and I didn't even feel it there - and pooof - LD gone, woke up.
But one time - I "made" chocolate out of jewellery for the comp - that tasted just fine.

----------


## fogelbise

> There is more to be learned there, still.



Same here! 

By the way, I was just reviewing Mzzkc's stabilization thread today and noticed he must have stated the effects of any imbalance backwards in the OP/post #1 under the "Bringing it all Together" summary. His later post matches my viewpoint...post #15 of the thread here: http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-cont...ml#post1792173 ...namely that too much focus on self can return you to your waking self (fade to black) and too much focus on the dream world only, can have you continue into a regular dream no longer lucid.

----------


## StephL

I did it!!!

I played lucid daaarts!
Soo great - I used the lately often mentioned pretend-remember-technique - being in a house - I "remembered" that there was a dart-board and arrows next door - and they were!!

Yupp - need stabilization stuff now for sure - it was a bit blurry - also metaphorically speaking - I can't remember, what I hit - I think I just threw at the board, to see, if I really can, and if they really fly naturally - and they did!!
I mean - not a wonder, that my unconscious knows about how darts fly, did that enough often - but it really felt natural - and even the oche-length - I was worried, that it wouldn't be dreamt correctly - but it felt all right!!

darts-048.gif

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome Steph! You are on a roll!  ::D:  I wish you some more lucid dart throwing practice! I think I told you that I have experimented with a different sport and it seemed productive but there were breaks from realism (I had more skills/agility in the lucid dream).

----------


## StephL

Yeah - I was also a bit worried about getting a realistic ballistic arc - but it was there - I think.
At least I didn't notice anything wrong with the physical details of it all while in the dream.
If I had been able to judge that correctly, though - I would (still?) know now, what I've hit. Soo - less hazy next time please!

I was playing badly yesterday evening/this morning - but that's not connected, I hope..rolleyes.gif

To check, where I stand at the moment concerning statistics - I should get on WDA (WebcamDartsOrganisation) and play like 20 legs or something.
Won't look good, that much is clear.
At least I have plenty room for improvement as a relative novice - something to determine!

Hoping to be in a hurry, to get some "pre-lucid controls" in - but honestly - I hope to rather mess that up, by going back lucid darting later this morning!  ::D: 
Got to play on Sunday - and not like that last session please!!

Blablabla - sorry... :Off to Bed:

----------


## fogelbise

> I was playing badly yesterday evening/this morning - but that's not connected, I hope..



I would be surprised if it was connected. Good luck getting some more lucid practice!  :smiley:  Have you tried incubating dart throwing to show up in your dreams?

----------


## StephL

Nope - not really yet.
Hopefully I get out of the rut with darts and do some real training today.
With that I can then try to incubate.
Need to fire up my passion for them small metal things again - somehow LDing and also this forum distracts me a bit!
I'll have to balance my hobby-activities more - taking part on here is great - but also slightly addictive! wink.gif
Can't keep my fingers off the off-topicing so easily, though - it is great to find a bunch of people interested in the "unconventional" as much as me!

Edit: How silly is that - answering here and not reporting my last-night two mini-lucidities!
WBTB WILD fail again - but I only kept at it some minutes.
In the next dream, I wanted to go somewhere and I realized, that I was dreaming, but as if it was something completely unremarkable, just to make it easier for me to commute.
So I flew somewhere twice and happily dreamt on non-lucidly.

Na well - can't hurt.
Doesn't really justify to update my count - but I added one.

----------


## fogelbise

I say definitely celebrate them even if they seem like small victories!  ::D:

----------


## StephL

Hi fogelbise!
Just short update - I had a beautiful LD - finally really vivid and stable - maybe even from starting out meditating - or maybe not.

And I have still this dreamsign conundrum - with a maybe insight-generating new experience - I posted that in the questions for podcast thread - copy paste:





> How to become aware of dream-signs, which do not show up irl, and thus cannot be RCed on??
> 
> I have identified tons of dream-signs of which I keep dreaming over and over and then some.
> Only in the rarest cases do I recognize them to get lucid.
> I caught up with the toilets only by doing RCs almost every time I go irl. But almost all other dreamsigns don't occur in my actual life (any more).
> 
> But now I had an interesting - almost puzzling occurrence. In a normal dream not long ago, I was digging in the ground and found more and more finger rings. Journalled this as well.
> When I dreamt the same thing two nights back - I became instantly lucid by remembering, that I had dreamt it before. Really convincing this was - no need for RC even.
> 
> ...




Yeah - I know I asked before - but do you maybe have ideas for me?
Thank you!
 :smiley:

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on the beautiful, vivid and stable LD!!!  ::D: 

My thought on the dream sign challenges is that you should still do those things that seem like they are not working: mantras and visualization(+prospective and regular memory), but also boost your chances for higher awareness through a combination of daytime work and timing. I have noticed that when my awareness is low, for whatever reason, it doesn't matter how reliable a dream sign normally is for me, I will just go on with the dream completely unaware accepting everything thrown at me as being normal. The timing aspect is of course where you find better chance for higher waking life awareness or memory after sleeping for 5-6 hours and focus your efforts during those times. Personally, my awareness usually (though not always) starts to wane again after 8 hours of sleep as I seem to have already gotten enough sleep and just seem to zone out during that additional sleep. I am sure everyone is different though.

----------


## StephL

Thank you - okay - I will try to intensify these activities and put them into WBTB!
Maybe once I start recognizing one - a dam breaks and it's open for detection then further..?
I do not have one ds, that I could call reliable among sooo many..

----------


## fogelbise

> Thank you - okay - I will try to intensify these activities and put them into WBTB!
> Maybe once I start recognizing one - a dam breaks and it's open for detection then further..?



I hope so. I have had some dream sign success but it didn't seem break the dam free and my guess was that the awareness was very important and the dream signs were more of a hint. I don't have any data to support this but that is my gut feeling. Of course, having some dream sign success could provide some encouragement and thus a boost.

----------


## StephL

Hm!!
Makes perfect sense.
Good ol' awareness...

----------


## StephL

News again!
Two short lucid moments directly at the end of dreams - but I didn't DEILD unfortunately - I guess, I really got to prepare consciously for such, otherwise it doesn't come to my mind easily.
And then this occurrence:





> It happened again.
> Sunbathing with my mother on the balcony of the house, she sold and which is ripped down.
> I turn to her and say - you know - for a while I have only dreamt of this house a whole lot. But since we are _really here_, and all the time (I dream of it a lot) - how can that be?
> 
> She said - yeah - she sold the ground, and didn't tell me, that it would still stand - behind the two big apartment houses, I had seen, when I had been coming here to look.
> Somehow I was sceptic, because we didn't own that much ground and there was a hill in it - but I thought - ah - that's the earth from where they built the new ones.
> And then of course I got into a tirade how maximally unfair this would have been of my mother, to for years have this secret, and I can only dream of it.
> While she sunbaths etc. 
> 
> *But it was muuch closer than just dreaming of it! Mantraing on it starts to work maybe?*

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on the brief lucids and a close call on the dream sign! Me too last night! I have a more recent dream sign of noticing oddities when I look into the night sky and it has helped me to become lucid before but last night I think my self-awareness was too low (it was earlier in the night). Stars kept disappearing when I would focus on them and I realized that was odd and I tried to do a float RC but didn't float and didn't try any other RCs and seemed to wake up from that moment.

On the DEILDs...yes, my success with them was when I was really focusing on remembering to always try to re-enter a dream upon any mini-awakening. Unfortunately, I have gotten away from that but I need to re-focus, because it is a good way to get more lucids.

----------


## StephL

Yeah - I keep thinking - na - tonight I'm lazy - and then there is something, where I know, it would have been so close, so easy - had I just put in that little more effort, about which I already forgot.
Like taking note of ending dreams and getting lucid there - and be mentally prepared for DEILD.
Came as a surprise - and twice.

What I liked about the second instance, was how it happened - I got tipped off by seeing my own head in 3rd person perspective.
Trying to explain, what haircut corrections I wanted.
Plus they turned blonde - but it was rather the perspective.
I hope - and do since a while for darts - to be able to implement that - at least I know, I can do it in non-lucidity now!

Might sound superficially "female" - but got a new short cut irl and it's different - worth some nightly ongoings, I find.

----------


## fogelbise

> Might sound superficially "female" - but got a new short cut irl and it's different - worth some nightly ongoings, I find.



I didn't understand this last part...but I understand your earlier comment about feeling lazy or tired at times. Sometimes I just focus on getting a good nights sleep and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

----------


## StephL

What I meant, was obsessing over haircuts is a bit of a silly thing to dream of - but it comes from having shed around 20 cm to really short hair lately.
Just forget it - _that comment_ was silly - not dreamings of haircuts!
 :smiley:

----------


## fogelbise

Ah, I get it now. I bet it looks great!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

eek.gif

Why does nobody do this?
Upon reading up on overdosing Melatonin, and that I don't have to worry one bit with it - I took 15 mg - 5 small pills.
It is even a very potent and healthy antioxidant - like vitamin C and E...
And I didn't do nothing else - absolutely nothing in the day and in bed.
Edit: Oh wait - I did about 5 min. meditation in the afternoon..
And yepp!!
There were even three instances that night - somewhere in the first 7 h hours of sleep.
What is a bit stupid, is that I didn't journal directly after the dreams - but went on to heavily oversleep afterwards - I guess I slept 12 h or so.
Side effect from the Melatonin, I guess - but I wasn't tired or feeling smashed after getting up.
I guess, I could have gotten up earlier without problems too.
I know, I forgot large parts of the lucidity like this.
Good that I remembered the TOTM and now also remember doing it - but not much else from these instances.

First off - I got lucid from realizing, that the old house cannot be real, because it has been ripped down!!
It was again a bit back and forth with - but it is soo real - but it can't be real - but it looks soo .. and then finally a RC.
If this would reliably work - as I said - I got a chance every night on that house - if I don't stop dreaming of it so much, once I register it isn't for real??
This time I really took my time with pondering the implications of lucidity - dutchraptor-like, unfortunately forgot to do a full-sensory inventory - but it was pretty stable anyway.

What didn't work was phasing through a big closed window - it broke and it hurt a bit - I also clearly remember this.
It's such a shame I forgot so much - that won't happen again - I promise myself to journal instantly after an LD!!

 ::yddd:: 


Edit: Forgot - I wear a sleeping mask since two days - this might have helped as well.

----------


## fogelbise

Very nice result!!!  ::D:  Was that 3 separate DILDs perhaps? If so, maybe waking up to record the first one might not have given you the chance for one of the others...who knows. It sounded like you were doing 3 different "new" things...please do report back if you find that one was more of a boost than the others.





> If this would reliably work - as I said - I got a chance every night on that house - if I don't stop dreaming of it so much, once I register it isn't for real??



I hope not! I have wondered the same thing, like how my nightmares disappeared after realizing I was dreaming and taking action as a child...and more recently one dream sign has stopped showing, but I don't think that it has to be that way...let's hope not!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Thank you!
Yeah - I might have had one or even two instance less - but like this - it's a bit as if it didn't happen, when you can't remember something.
Next time.
I guess, I will do the Melatonin thing again coming Sunday and report.
The sleeping mask is now a permanent installation - it makes my sleep more relaxing, and the new one is very soft and doesn't disturb me.
Didn't meditate yesterday - will hopefully not forget it today, though.

These factors sure played in - but I don't think, that bit of meditation had such impressive a result - I'll wager, it was the Melatonin to the biggest percentage.
I'll see, how it goes when I dose down - maybe I find a sweet spot, where I'm not groggy the next day and have the effect anyway.
Dosing _down_ - not exactly orthodox - but who knows - curious as I am - I will dose up eventually as well, just to see, where that gets me.

----------


## StingPT

Hey Stephl! First of all, congratulations on your DILDs! 

Melatonin greatly helps with lucidity, but I'm afraid that it might compromise your ability to have an LD without them. I'm not sure if that can happen, but isn't it better to have an all natural LD?   :tongue2: 

Keep up with the meditation! Meditation doesn't give you more chances of lucidity at a start. But it will gradually increase your dreams vividness and hopefully your ability to have an LD. Some people who tried meditation usually report that they have much more vividness after 2-3 weeks of doing meditation. Might give it a try? =)

Yeah, not writting your LDs right before them, happens to all of us sometimes... And we all end up regretting it ahah!

I don't know if the sleeping mask helps, but it may work in the morning when the sun light starts to pop out!

----------


## StephL

Thank you Sting!

Yeah - it's my view as well - not getting lazy with using supplements and then at least _feeling_ dependent on them.
That's why I didn't look into Galantamine etc.
I was just really surprised to find this clear association LD and melatonin in other places than here, while here it seems to have the reputation to be only useful against insomnia from other supps.
So having it at home - sure I was curious.

I'll definitively go on with meditation - it does me very well in general - and some weeks sounds reasonable for noticing something.

----------


## fogelbise

> ...and more recently one dream sign has stopped showing, but I don't think that it has to be that way...let's hope not!



An update already...that dream sign was back last night and triggered lucidity...albeit short. So there is some hope for us both along the lines of what we discussed yesterday I think!  :smiley:  I haven't tried melatonin yet but I did officially mediate for the first time last week and it felt like I was good at it - beginners luck perhaps...I was starting to think that all of my lucid practice (day and night practices) helped with the meditation but then my session the following day was much more challenging with lots of thoughts entering/interrupting. I use a sleep mask, but not regularly at the moment. Realizing that you can see despite the sleep mask is another way to become lucid as I am sure you know.

----------


## FryingMan

> Thank you Sting!
> 
> Yeah - it's my view as well - not getting lazy with using supplements and then at least _feeling_ dependent on them.
> That's why I didn't look into Galantamine etc.
> I was just really surprised to find this clear association LD and melatonin in other places than here, while here it seems to have the reputation to be only useful against insomnia from other supps.
> So having it at home - sure I was curious.
> 
> I'll definitively go on with meditation - it does me very well in general - and some weeks sounds reasonable for noticing something.



It is good to focus on "natural" LDing.   I too however am interested in supplements to achieve the so-called "higher-order" lucid dreams without having to wait (for years?).     I treat them as a rare sort of "LD super party night", for one thing because I don't want to inhibit my natural LD ability (and I've read one anecdotal experience where an  LDer who went through an entire bottle of galantamine couldn't LD without it for like a year afterwards, yikes [amazon.com galantamind reviews]), and two because I'm just not all that excited about taking supplements in general and messing with body/brain chemistry.

But the lure is there for more exciting / vivid / longer dreams and LDs.

By the way, Yuschak writes about melatonin, and does mention its effect for producing vivid dreams as it wears off (believed to be due to REM rebound).  His book is really excellent both for a thorough description of dreaming and brain chemistry and for looking in depth at a number of different supplements.

p.s. Yuschak mentions that he prefers 5-HTP to melatonin for vivid dreams due to REM rebound.   One reason is that melatonin has a short half-life so you have to take pretty large doses for it to last until early morning.

----------


## StephL

Very interesting - first congratulation on having started meditating and also to still finding your dreamsign showing up fogelbise!
Same here - I was a bit sick lately and left meditating be - but I also have times, when it seems so easy and others, when it's really testing me.
Aand - follows.
Thank you Fryingman for this detailed post - I think I might look into that book.
Since I was sick and such completely out of energy - I didn't yet repeat the melatonin thing.
I really don't want to get into a mindset, where I put expectation in external aids and then might loose confidence for pure - and not least - completely cost-free dreaming.
Money is one reason, I didn't want to go down the road of supps and really find out about them, and test them out - find the best mix.
Too expensive - and I got all that I need for free, and it's grown on my neck.
It's just - my husband takes it, having huge trouble sleeping - and sometimes I get some off him - and reading on it - I had to try.

My dream-sign - this house - in the meantime I had two short LDs from it.
The first was while I was sick and completely unexpected - I had the realization intellectually - looked at my hands - and - ??
I guess, I dreamt on what I was on about.

Last night as well - but it's "receding" - this time it was empty and about to be ripped down and I wanted to get something, that left in it.
Then I thought - the house - am I dreaming?
Then - noo - it's all empty and gets destroyed soon.
Then - nooo - it must be already kaput!!

Looked at my hands - was convinced - and remembered the TOTMs. There were two people behind me, and I asked the woman for her middle name - which was: Niniana.
Somehow I had already instantly thought - naa - I want to dream this story further. Good that she stood there so I thought I take that one in stride and then dream on. Which I did.
But the alien bonus task came to my mind shortly as well - somehow I decided, that I don't have the necessary dream-control or quality for such an endeavour - could hit myself for not even trying.
Yupp - dreamt some boring stuff from there non-lucidly.

What is striking - lately when an LD stops it does so not with me waking up - but more or less _deciding_ to go on non-lucid.
Finding it strenuous  ::wtf::  ??

----------


## fogelbise

> What is striking - lately when an LD stops it does so not with me waking up - but more or less deciding to go on non-lucid.
>  Finding it strenuous  ??



Or perhaps just tired and you were just going with the flow? Still nice that you are realizing that you are  dreaming though! Yeah, that dream sign that came back for me...I was starting to wonder if it was gone for good, so that was encouraging.

----------


## StephL

On the one hand it is quite encouraging - I had two more little lucid moments - but not real lucid dreams.
My last two DJ entries - running into stupid problems again - but anyway.
Maybe because I have a very light sleep at the moment and keep waking up, having a cold.

My newest lucidity-killer - illusory urinary urges.
First time I woke myself up, thinking I should better do that - nope - no need. Very angry me.
It came to me then, that I had disproved the hazard to the bedding myth before, at least for me and quite a while back and so I decided, if - then..

And I did remember all that, astonishingly, when the urge surged once more - but giving in - my guess - overpowered the still small flame of meta-consciousness having lightened up in my DLPFC* - and I ended up in a pretty strange situation indeed.
This is silly, and it has to go away!!

*dorsolateral pre-frontal cortex - finally an acronym!

----------


## fogelbise

DLPFC...I like it.  :smiley:  I knew what you meant the minute I saw it before seeing the footnote. Of course, the "lighting up" part was a major clue, but I probably would have been clueless before starting on this LD journey in adulthood. I find the hazard to the bedding to be a myth as well. If you can successfully ignore it, it can give you a great DEILD opportunity.

----------


## StephL

Yeah - I like it too - heard quite some stuff of it before - but wasn't aware of the nice abbreviation - and it does work - you confirm this!
Hurrah to the DLPFC!
And to the other two - I'll mention them too, once I find out how to call them comfortably.

----------


## fogelbise

> dorsolateral pre-frontal cortex



 By the way, would you use the same words for that term in German?

----------


## StephL

Yes, we do - just the Latin a bit germanized: "dorsolateraler praefrontaler Cortex".

I have fantastic news - not about me, but from and for my husband!
And bloody typical as well - thinks to himself - lets try to get my first LD by doing a WILD dive at bedtime - and goes and does it!!
He's been making me envious so many times, when I bring him to something, that I cherish and invest time into perfecting it - while he goes ahead natural genius style and catches up and overtakes you manyfold.
Happened with Go, happened with darts - he lost interest in the latter, after managing a 180 and three red bulls in an extraordinarily short amount of time.
I see this and think, what the heck am I doing in this hobby - practising and giving it my best - and he just rushes by for me to hear the sonic boom. 

Na well - we will see - but it animated him big time - came bouncing to my room and flowing over about how this relates to all his philosophical thinking and how great it is, that he also has now a direct, experiential understanding about subjective reality.
In the end I had to push him back out almost - wanting to sleep and dream myself.

But I love it when he goes *Aha!!* his eyes all sparkling and his words bubbling forth with no end in sight!

----------


## fogelbise

> But I love it when he goes Aha!! his eyes all sparkling and his words bubbling forth with no end in sight!



Awesome! It is nice that you have someone close to share your hobby with! My wife, never, I am afraid.

----------


## FryingMan

> Awesome! It is nice that you have someone close to share your hobby with! My wife, never, I am afraid.



Ditto, alas.

Grats to hubby!    Now tell him the real challenge is finishing the first 25 LDs and see how he does!   The first one's almost a freebie sometimes.   The real success is for 2, 3, 4, ... etc.

----------


## StephL

Yeah - we will see, what he does - but actually, I would find it pretty weird, if he wouldn't be interested..

----------


## kilham

> But I love it when he goes *Aha!!* his eyes all sparkling and his words bubbling forth with no end in sight!



That's so cool/sweet to have someone to share with!! My ex-boyfriend was like "not again"  ::roll::  Mom, sister, friends... the same. I've recently told about this to one of my best friends and he's the only one that was interested for the first time. Two days later he called me at the middle of the night telling me he did it, he was very excited, told me about how he talked with his mother (told her how much he missed her), how grateful he was because it changed his life completely, I was almost crying of happiness, lol.

----------


## AstralMango

> That's so cool/sweet to have someone to share with!! My ex-boyfriend was like "not again"  Mom, sister, friends... the same. I've recently told about this to one of my best friends and he's the only one that was interested for the first time. Two days later he called me at the middle of the night telling me he did it, he was very excited, told me about how he talked with his mother (told her how much he missed her), how grateful he was because it changed his life completely, I was almost crying of happiness, lol.



That's really cool! I'm glad it changed his life and that it made him happy. Lucid dreaming is just one of the most amazing things ever. With stories like these, I can see how it can change the world.  ::D:

----------


## StephL

Oh yes - it is indeed one of the most groundbreaking experiences there are to be made in general, I find.
And it is for a change not dangerous, costly or even time-intense*.

The first one changed my mind for good, it's really true - the same phenomenon, that my husband experienced - I became conscious of the fact, that what I usually perceive as direct and reliable reality - it is relative and not bound to perceptions and a world at all.
This is something, which my husband theoretically was convinced of already - but to experience the utter truth of it first hand is very different from intellectual considerations.


*Ah - but then - I need to devote more time to it anyway with the comp now - I was a bit overoptimistic, it seems.

----------


## fogelbise

You can do it Steph!  :smiley:  

Do you mind expanding on this thought?.. "I became conscious of the fact, that what I usually perceive as direct and reliable reality - it is relative and not bound to perceptions and a world at all."

----------


## StephL

What I mean is, that when we dream lucidly - we become aware of the fact, that we can have the exactly same impression, the same qualitative experience of a complete reality surrounding us like in real life.
But there are no sensory inputs - this whole world does only exist in our brains - and it potentially looks and feels etc. just like the real world - even more real than the real world, sometimes.
Oh - I wish I had that regularly - but it is rather the exception, that I have a full realization of my surroundings..

So that means that our brain is a virtual reality generator - perfectly able to simulate a representation of the world and us in it out of nothing.
This shakes up the intuitive belief to be in one on one direct contact with reality - we are not - we construct a representational model out of ourselves, in the case of being awake bound to perceptions to more or less a degree.

Here is a link, where this is put much better:
Getting Lucid about Consciousness – Experience might be a virtual reality –

One more:
Consciousness Revolutions - review of 'The Ego Tunnel' by Thomas Metzinger

Very lucid man, this philosopher!

----------


## fogelbise

Thank you for expanding on that thought!  :smiley:  I liked your concise explanation but also enjoyed the links.

----------


## StephL

Last night I got lucid again - it was because I expected to be able to drive my bicycle on water.
Just because I expected that - not because it worked - sort of funny.

But I feel, I have smashed it with this stabilize your senses business. Trying to feel stuff. Do you really go through your senses?
Ophelia said, she doesn't, and takes the dream as it is, since she already did have it, and believed it is real, maybe there is no need?

----------


## fogelbise

> Last night I got lucid again - it was because I expected to be able to drive my bicycle on water.
> Just because I expected that - not because it worked - sort of funny.
> 
> But I feel, I have smashed it with this stabilize your senses business. Trying to feel stuff. Do you really go through your senses?
> Ophelia said, she doesn't, and takes the dream as it is, since she already did have it, and believed it is real, maybe there is no need?



Was it that you felt like trying to stabilize the different senses smashed your LD and it ended quickly? If that is what you mean, then I have a couple of ideas. There seem to be two camps of thought on this here on DV. One camps says to never worry about stabilizing and just enjoy the dream. I think that I heard that from Sageous early on and took it to heart. Sometimes when my dream would end quickly I would then wonder if I should have taken time to stabilize it but it could have been the reason that I mention at the end of this. The other camp says that you should stabilize from the start of realizing that you are lucid to give you more time in the dream. The counter-point to that is that in thinking this way you could now be worrying that it will be unstable and thus provide instability to the dream by worrying. I think both can be right depending on the person using the advice. If someone is the type of person that tends to overthink things like I do at times then it may be better to just enjoy the dream. If you feel like you can stabilize without worrying about it then it shouldn't have a negative effect and it could be that you were just at the end of REM for that sleep cycle anyway. Nice to see you here again.  :smiley:  Funny and cool way to become lucid!

----------


## StephL

I think, I am one of the stabilization worriers - it always feels like I have to do that more or less in a rush.
Next time I simply expect all to stay as realistic as it is and do as if nothing were to be feared - and thus not go about all these anchoring business.
I am pretty convinced, I should get into camp one - lately I am loosing ambition a bit - having only these short and frustrating moments.
I hope I take that to heart and remember it - I've been planning on it before, but panic to do that stuff took over, before I remembered my plans.
Also the aspect, that you could get points for successful stabilization might have put me off that planned for track in the comp - that is not in the least a criticism, though.
Guess, I concentrate on TOTMs again and really try to remember forgetting about stabi and go right on with dreaming.
It's true after all - before lucidity I had a completely realistic dream with no problems at all.

Maybe I get lucid at the end of dreams, though, were I would have woken up otherwise, and it's not avoidable.
Didn't try a WILD seriously for a long time as well.
Lets see - funnily - now after the comp - my motivation is bigger than before/while - strange - but I take it as it comes.
Also very nice to see you in here again!!
Happy stable dreaming to you!
smile.gif

----------


## fogelbise

I know (and you know) that you can do it!  :smiley:  I think that you have a good plan and should give it some time to take effect. Happy dreaming to you too!!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Last night I took a different approach than usual and I'm quite happy with how it went.
I recognized one of my dreamsigns - and without RC or any stabilization activities - I just went with the flow of the dream.
First off I took flight and airswam about in the house - to the admiration of the people there.
Maybe first time I told somebody, that I was dreaming - they were like - really? What is with us then, though??
I let the topic slip immediately, because I wanted them to feel real..
There was a story going on and DCs from real life - somehow I slipped in and out of dreaming it lucidly.
For example I got handed a toddler, and it was so nice and cuddly - I forgot myself - but not for long.
I guess, I got lucid in the same dream about three times - and it was a really long one - much more lucid time than the last many instances. People whom I didn't see for long - so my main aim was being happy and having fun with them.
It was very enjoyable - not according to plan, exactly - I wanted to walk about briskly and look at things and call out commands - completely forgot about that. But no stability issues whatsoever except in terms of intermittently loosing lucidity from getting too involved.
Bit stupid, I didn't journal it - after waking up from it I simply turned over and slept on.
So the memory is a bit patchy - but I felt very good upon waking up for the day - it's such a nice mood-enhancer!
And really motivating to not only have the realization strike and panic about and loose it, but some real solid dream-time.
Hard to gauge the time - I'd say more than 15 min.

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome Steph!! I am so happy for you!!  :smiley:   :smiley:   :smiley:  It sounds like a lot of what you were looking for! That shows good self awareness that you were able bring back the lucidity two more times while mostly going with the flow of the dream! Do keep us updated on your new approach please.  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

I enrolled in an experiment:

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...d-dreamer.html
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-0-a.html

Sounds very fascinating - huge huge promises - I will wait and see - and hope a bit.

----------


## fogelbise

This does sound interesting, good luck!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Yeah - well - I lost interest by now and postpone eventual activities until I have seen more of it - I meanwhile doubt, cvsmehden's promises will come true.
Anyway - if I should get surprised - I'll turn back to it!

I plan to follow the self-hypnosis guide, Sibyline and Linkzelda have used for LDs and stuff: 
Instant Self-Hypnosis - How To Hypnotize Yourself With Your Eyes Wide Open

But somehow I've not yet tried it - I'll print it and hope, I'll do it tomorrow.
Procrastinating and then watching 'True Detective' with my husband and a friend prevented me yesterday, and we still have three episodes left for tonight.. ::mrgreen:: 
But eventually - definitively.

 ::yddd::

----------


## fogelbise

I really enjoyed True Detective and I am hoping they do go ahead with another season! Let me know how the self-hypnosis goes.  :smiley:

----------


## FryingMan

+1 for True Detective, the two leads are both awesome actors.

----------


## StephL

Yeah - I really hope, there will be more.
I mean - now they are private investigators - pleease - give them cases, whoever produced this marvel!!

----------


## StephL

Did my first self-hypnosis session yesterday - it says, that something should happen after like 3-5 times doing that - I really, really hope it works on me.
I think it will - the suggestions, on how the sun would be warming up my body in the intro - believe it or not - that worked a treat.
I ended up with an almost burning feeling in my face, for example - really like from the sun. 
So I am not immune to it - my bloodvessels react just fine - that much is clear by now.
It's also very relaxing.
Only thing - I should translate it into German - it is supposed to be read aloud to oneself, and while my English is okay - I guess, German would be more powerful.

----------


## fogelbise

The power of the mind! Very interesting. When you are done with True Detective, you might find some enjoyment with Hanibal (the TV series). The 2nd season is very interesting with so many creative and artistic angles. Dark subject matter like True Detective.

----------


## StephL

Thanks for the tip!
Did my second session - but still in English - and it's a bit hoppla-pop with getting pronunciation right and at the same time have it trickle in naturally.
Finally I got my act together and put a DJ entry up - only trivial stuff - but I suspect, that it's journalling, which often made the difference for me.
When I've been journalling - like for the last comp or also before in more intense phases - I got lucid from time to time - without it - not really.
Bathroom-RCs are on the menu again, too and and ..

----------


## fogelbise

I am guessing that you were right that it will be more effective translated to German. 

I think dream journaling helps in a number of ways, so I am happy to hear that you are back at it!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Yeah - it really is true - after journalling - I thought about the dream several times in the day - I wouldn't have done that just remembering it after waking up.
I have bad recall anyway.
Tomorrow I'll translate and go for session number 3 - with some extra for WILD specifically, and to stay up for WBTB.
For now:

 :Off to Bed:

----------


## StephL

Ha - notice to my dear teachers:

I translated only a third of it - but I did it the third time in English just now, and I felt seriously hypnotised this time.
Been hypnotised before.
It felt, as if I knew it by heart partly - much more fluent than I sometimes read.
And if you would have recorded me - that would have sounded hypnotised, believe me.
Veery interesting - lovely - so it seems the more I do it the more fascinating - if only on spot yet.
So Steph in hope, once more - and it's even a form - and a powerful one - of the "new acronym" - PM - prospective memory!

 ::yddd::

----------


## FryingMan

> And if you would have recorded me - that would have sounded hypnotised, believe me.



OK, now you *have* to record it and post the mp3 file!    I like listening to hypnosis audios and prefer female voices to male for such!

----------


## fogelbise

> Ha - notice to my dear teachers:
> 
> I translated only a third of it - but I did it the third time in English just now, and I felt seriously hypnotised this time.
> Been hypnotised before.
> It felt, as if I knew it by heart partly - much more fluent than I sometimes read.
> And if you would have recorded me - that would have sounded hypnotised, believe me.
> Veery interesting - lovely - so it seems the more I do it the more fascinating - if only on spot yet.
> So Steph in hope, once more - and it's even a form - and a powerful one - of the "new acronym" - PM - prospective memory!



This is exciting! I wish you tremendous results Steph and eagerly wait to hear your updates! The possibilities are many!

----------


## StephL

Weell - maybe last night was a result - maybe it just happened like that and because I found a great time for my WBTB - waking up naturally after 6h and still having time to sleep on. So I tried for WILD, but kept loosing myself in other thoughts. But after that - juhuu - a lucid dream, if only a little one and with scaring a girl to tears and the plants wouldn't let my hypnotize them!!
I only stared at them though - next time come suggestions and expectation - maybe I even get some fake memory into it.

 ::yddd:: 




Edit:

Thanks to Mismagius posting a link to Hyu's DJ I believe I finally understand the biggest riddle of my LDing journey:





> This is important.
> If you want to experience an entire world or setting (Hogwarts, Middle-Earth...), never try to create it right in front of you.
> There will be inconsistencies, DCs will go out of character, forget what they're supposed to do...
> In my experience, it just doesn't work right.
> Instead try to go there.
> Don't create Hogwarts, instead go to the real Hogwarts.
> 
> I do this by leaving my dream bubble (just a bubble containing my current dream), and going to an entirely new place.
> *Doing so I have an easier time believing that I am in a real place, and not in a dream controlled by my own sub-conscious,
> which renders dreams much more realistic.*



I have mentioned it again and again - my very first LD was so extraordinarily realistic and stable and I consciously tested all senses and the surroundings with never a shred of doubt about the tangibility of it all.
Completely like being teleported to another world.
It never was like this again.

Now I think I know what it was - I got there by following Castaneda's lessons, and I wanted to believe in the woo, so when I got lucid, I really seriously thought, I am in an actual different realm.
A supernatural world, but a real and consistent one, and not a dream.
And so that's what it felt like. Total immersion.

Oh - if only I could get that on purpose - no wishy-washy changy things and this horrible stability problem of mine.
That dream back then was so stable, that I had to really force myself into waking intensely - and at first it didn't work, even.

----------


## fogelbise

^^Congratulations Steph!! I also really like the possible epiphany in your edit! Very interesting!..it makes sense to me.

----------


## StephL

Just finished translating all of it - puuh - three text pages - but happy now about it.

----------


## fogelbise

^Very nice! Was it the lucid dreaming script from this page: http://www.hypnosisalliance.com/otto...ns%20Blair.pdf ?

----------


## StephL

Yupp - exactly that!

----------


## StephL

A bit of news from me - meanwhile two more hypnosis sessions in - I got back to English, I feel that works better.
At the side a dabble in image streaming - hard to say now, what is what, since that supposedly also is a good lucidity initiator.

Two nights ago, I got lucid already, but I was - stupidly - enjoying what I was doing so much, I thought no thank you.. gaah.gif
But last night again then - and I had remembered to do what The Cusp said concerning stabilizing scenery - and what you my dears have also told me, but I had read it off him yesterday:

I started moving and taking note of the 3D-ness of the environment - so I started running and got myself a beautiful 3D landscape stabilized - buuut - I should have given some attention to the cognitive implications of lucidity - as I did it - I lost lucidity after a while of running.
Better than those micro-things with rushing to do something stabilizing and in the end loose it all and wake up.
Looks like I'm on the roll again anyway!!

----------


## fogelbise

On the roll again indeed!! Congrats Steph!!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Thank you again for your sweet words in the poll next door, fogelbise!

The last three nights I have been getting up shortly, when I woke up naturally after around 5 hours and then lay back in bed on my back.
I didn't do anything specific except once counting down and repeating I am dreaming, and twice looking at the back of my eyelids.
This lead to me getting lost in thoughts, and one time falling asleep and twice I rolled over after a while to sleep.
And it resulted in two lucid moments, recognizing dreamsigns, which I had not given any prior attention to.
They almost immediately popped out of existence and I was awake.
I could maybe have re-entered, had I thought about holding still and DEILDing - so I'll try to keep that in mind.
It's not exactly bad in my eyes to have a result, as soon as I start doing something again - but I fear for the ongoing problems of just becoming lucid and that's it then. Is there something I could do in the day to work against that more specifically?

It is a true motivation killer..


Something I forgot - not long ago I had a dream, in which a flying train featured - and now last night's dream had people talk about such a train, and I remembered that scene as reality!!

----------


## fogelbise

> Thank you again for your sweet words in the poll next door, fogelbise!



I absolutely mean all the nice things I say and think about you!  :smiley: 





> The last three nights I have been getting up shortly, when I woke up naturally after around 5 hours and then lay back in bed on my back.
> I didn't do anything specific except once counting down and repeating I am dreaming, and twice looking at the back of my eyelids.
> This lead to me getting lost in thoughts, and one time falling asleep and twice I rolled over after a while to sleep.
> And it resulted in two lucid moments, recognizing dreamsigns, which I had not given any prior attention to.
> They almost immediately popped out of existence and I was awake.
> I could maybe have re-entered, had I thought about holding still and DEILDing - so I'll try to keep that in mind.
> It's not exactly bad in my eyes to have a result, as soon as I start doing something again - but I fear for the ongoing problems of just becoming lucid and that's it then. Is there something I could do in the day to work against that more specifically?
> 
> It is a true motivation killer..



Yes, a couple of ideas here. Perhaps we can go back and forth and figure out the best course of action. One thing I just recently overcame, it seems, is the idea that if a certain scene is fading that it also means that I am waking up. The belief that it may not be over seems to allow me enough time to save the lucid and I have been able to do spinning and enter a new scene. Previously I focused a good amount of attention and intention on DEILD attempts and that overcame some of these moments, but now it seems to be a change in mindset that is working for me. This "fear for the ongoing problems" is surely working against you and I think that you need to get rid of that fear or expectation and instead expect that the stability will be just fine and if the scene wants to change that there is no reason why you can't enter a new scene. That, I think, is the primary fix but you can also focus more attention on DEILD attempts every time you "wake" whether it is a False Awakening or a real one...just attempt a DEILD just in case...it usually only takes seconds to tell if it is working. Mantras before bed are good for this and also short "practices" in your normal sleeping position during the day while visualizing what it feels like when you normally are getting ready to lose the dream and redirecting what you now expect to happen to the positive end result. Does that make sense? Please let me know if you have any questions.

Sorry for the slow response. I was away for several days. 





> Something I forgot - not long ago I had a dream, in which a flying train featured - and now last night's dream had people talk about such a train, and I remembered that scene as reality!!



That is very interesting! Residue from one dream coming into another.

----------


## StephL

That makes perfect sense - I keep trying to hold on to what is already there - if I have a mindset of - okay so it changes, lets see what comes next, or try spinning to get something next - that could well work!
Thank you!

I had a weird dream again, with spillover from one into the following:
Dreaming of Having a Shared Dream! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I have many instances with in-dream-memories of prior dreams - hach - still got it open to argue some points with dutch in another thread about if nonlucids lay down their own memories. It's not just that simple, the exchange - but again I have a new example for my point..
And I didn't wake up between these two dreams.

----------


## spd

Interesting StephL I can only recall a similar experience once I had a dream there was a blue goat that was getting chased by a bigger blue creature and later on that night I was telling someone about that exact scene and I even had a flashback in the dream repeating the scene. They are unusual experiences

----------


## StephL

They are spd - thanks for sharing!
I believe by thinking about such instances, one might be able to gain a bit of insight into the workings of dreaming-mind memory.
What I have quite often, is that certain features of my dream-sceneries stays more or less the same over many dreams.
Something derived from actual reality, but with distinct features, which are missing irl.
Like for example a little wooden house, I had built in a dream to have something to sleep in, when visiting the place I grew up, since my mother moved away. It's rather a small shack - and I have dreamt of it at least three times. I don't have overly good recall, so it might have been much more often.
And many more things - a flat with similar to identical layout, which is completely dream-generated, not a memory.
Funnily for a while, I had often dreamt of our old house still standing and me staying there. So I used it as dream-sign - incubated it. But after getting lucid twice from realizing, it has been ripped down irl - the stupid thing doesn't show up any more...
puppydogeyes.gif

Hach - dreams are so fascinating but it can be so frustrating as well!!

----------


## fogelbise

> That makes perfect sense - I keep trying to hold on to what is already there - if I have a mindset of - okay so it changes, lets see what comes next, or try spinning to get something next - that could well work!
> Thank you!
> 
> I had a weird dream again, with spillover from one into the following:
> Dreaming of Having a Shared Dream! - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views
> 
> I have many instances with in-dream-memories of prior dreams - hach - still got it open to argue some points with dutch in another thread about if nonlucids lay down their own memories. It's not just that simple, the exchange - but again I have a new example for my point..
> And I didn't wake up between these two dreams.



Interesting! I wonder if that is how some of the reports of shared or precog dreams come about! So Hypnosis might be helping with more detailed recall? Have you had other notable effects?

----------


## StephL

Heehehe - yeah - maybe some reports have such a background. As long as I don't become religious while dreaming - it's all in the green, I guess. The precog thing was something I really considered to be the case in that dream, while the SD the last one made me analyse and talk to people, and argue, how it's not actually possible in my view. But I was planning in that dream, to open a thread about it on here, and sort out my mind and affairs publicly. Again - a dream in which I am perfectly able to think and rationalize and discuss such a complex topic quite properly - but I didn't notice, that I was dreaming in a completely different context than my life now, and it didn't occur to me to RC either. rolleyes.gif


Weell - last night I was shortly lucid, having done a hypnosis session the day before yesterday, without doing it once more.
And that again after ages of doing nothing and having no LDs - comparatively good recall again, too.  
I don't do the recall section, but believe the LDing one works for recall, too, because it directs your attention to the topic of dreaming overall.
The LD was a tiny bit longer than the last ones, maybe half a minute - but again very disappointing. 
If I didn't have my LDs breaking down so fast - I would find it glorious and throw the script at anybody, who is not on the tree by the count of three.
I had lucids with every time I did it - either directly the night, or one or two nights later. It didn't ever fall short of that. And I did it without other daytime-practice - except twice with image-streaming in close temporal vicinity.
But since my "successes" frustrate me - I almost don't see them as such any more.
The last 5 lucid mini-instances didn't even make it into my count..girl_sad.gif

The problem with the hypnosis script is, that after doing it 3 times - it was mighty boring the 4th time, and my attention began to rattle it's cage and wanted it done and over with. I guess, this is a common problem. They say, doing it ten times would be really strong then, but I wonder, if I go through with it. I probably will.
Yes - it does something!
I'll try image-streaming today as well - I believe that could help me, esp. for visual stability - and it is a wondrous thing. I did a bit of visualization in that vein three nights ago, going to bed, and it seems it has meanwhile again gained "substance" - the visualisations are really not only imagination any more, but something other, much clearer. Getting clearer yet, once I attach words and describe, what I see. You should try that as well one day! Also something, which gets stronger with repetition. And last time was pretty astounding. For some reason, the images start to race, when you reach a certain mind-set, and when you grapple to wrap words around and about it, it gets even clearer, but races relentlessly on - it's fascinating!

Did I link the hypnosis script up in here? Why not try it out yourself!? At the very least it is quite relaxing.

I had to ask my husband to do a trick with the file, so that it was possible to print it out. What I plan, is to scan it and then transform the whole thing into a word-document and add my own suggestions and print it out again. If you have technical problems - just pm me in order to find out how to do that!  ::wink:: 

Maybe the thing is, that I got to do other additional stuff in order to have the LDs last longer - but I'd say, _getting there_ by hypnotizing oneself is entirely possible and seems rather easy, too.

Still having my finger hovering over the supps-ordering-trigger by the way. I forgot, if I asked before - did you try supps?

----------


## StephL

Yeeah!!
It worked - I got lucid again, and like usual - within seconds I completely lost optics.
Thinking of you and Ophelia, who had reported something along these lines, too - I just relaxed, told myself not to worry, it would come back and it did. Only after walking and talking blindly for a while - but I know now, that my LDs don't actually crash, when that happens. That I jolly well can keep on dreaming like that. The result was a really loong LD - the first in months, which was so extended. And started exactly like all the "crap" I had in the meantime. What a waste!
Very happy to have done a basic task, too. It was in between such a realistic dream incl. optics, that I had to reality-re-check several times. But I also had to re-force optics several times. I guess, I have an expectation about them crashing meanwhile, and am just now starting to properly counter-act.
Soo happy!
I also tried out commands - like more clarity and vividness, and the dream - bit sluggishly and reluctantly - did what I said! 
After having gotten optics going again, that is.
I did some MILD yesterday in addition to the probably lasting effect of the hypnosis. Just took 3 cues and tried to RC on them - I missed many, but RCed on some. Otherwise - I woke up naturally after about 4 h, got up shortly and went back to bed with some affirmations. And I did journal yesterday - not on here, but anyway.
These things surely helped - maybe esp. the RCs - but I am still believing it is mainly the hypnosis, which is responsible for my renewed lucidity.

Conclusions:

* I get lucids with only a little effort - and thanks to you and to Ophelia, I don't abort them in the first seconds any more, but battle through dream-blindness and into the light!*

 ::giraffe::

----------


## FryingMan

Very nice, congrats.   I have yet to get a good long LD, gotta avoid those temptations!  I had a short lucid last night where I also lost visuals immediately (happens when I get lucid right after a dream forms sometimes).  I rubbed my hands vigorously in the dark and started to feel them really well, then I did a silly dance hopping from foot to foot and could feel my feet hitting the "ground", I just kept doing that waiting for visuals to return,  then either I woke up rubbing my hands for real in the bed in the darkness, or I had a FA and missed it.

What is your hypnosis regimen?  I think I have the pdf, do you the dream recall one or the lucid dream one?   And did I understand that you do it multiple times back to back, or just once before bed?

----------


## StephL

Thank you FryingMan!
I used the script I linked up in here - got it from Sybyline - and I only did the LDing session, not the recall one, and once a day, and all together four times now.
I will insert some text of my own and also include WILD.
The most important thing of last night is, that I have renewed belief in my LDs in terms of length and stability, and such am much more motivated than over the last weeks.
I am no stranger to getting erotically distracted in LDs, too - but it never constituted a problem, actually.
Steel your mind - you can do it!  ::wink::

----------


## StephL

And - another one!
I was too lazy for a whole hypno-session, but I read the LD text just like that, because I wrote some additional text for the session today - maybe that was enough?

----------


## fogelbise

> Did I link the hypnosis script up in here? Why not try it out yourself!? At the very least it is quite relaxing.
> 
> Still having my finger hovering over the supps-ordering-trigger by the way. I forgot, if I asked before - did you try supps?



I think that you did. At some point, I saved the link from you or Sibyline as a favorite. I do plan to experiment with that hypnosis script at some point soon.

I still haven't tried supps, unless you count the occasional apple juice. 





> Conclusions:
> 
> * I get lucids with only a little effort - and thanks to you and to Ophelia, I don't abort them in the first seconds any more, but battle through dream-blindness and into the light!*



Awesome development! I am so happy for you Steph!!





> And - another one!
> I was too lazy for a whole hypno-session, but I read the LD text just like that, because I wrote some additional text for the session today - maybe that was enough?



Awesome, awesome, awesome!! Keep it up!  I am interested in what you added to it. Did you ever convert it to word format?

----------


## StephL

Wooould you believe it - another one - and again without another repetition!!
Night before last night I didn't have one, but I went to bed at 5 am then - no wonder.
There was quite some stress yesterday too, and I got to bed extremely late again - 3 am this time.
So I didn't prepare in any way - like WBTB and thinking about a task, or generally putting me in the right mindset to take the opportunity properly
This lead to me using lucidity only for making whooping sounds and flying about and loosing lucidity somewhere along the way - my memories are failing me, how the transition back happened. But anyway! And no optical troubles this time. I get the impression, that these come about rather when my mental clarity is really high, not when I just go about it "childishly" - like uiii - I can fly..
I guess it is the clear knowledge, that all visuals are produced by my mind - and I seem to not properly trust it in doing this, when I'm consciously watching it. 
Like _I_ have no idea how to do it - ergo - _my mind = I_ can also not possibly be doing it or something.

Looking forward to your experiments, fogelbise!
And to my fifth session, too - I have written a bit of extra text now - a WILD extension, basically - and will hopefully do it today. 
But it seems like this fourth one especially has somewhat opened the lucid gates for me. Maybe it is really cumulative and getting stronger and stronger the more you do it, like they say. They also said, that if something wouldn't come along as expected - it could take up to 10 sessions to properly install it. So I wonder - will I be lucid every night, going on with it?
I have a strange quirk, though - I sort of am afraid to go on, not to find out, that it doesn't work after all, and was just my momentary expectations..

Balderdash of course I'll go on!!

 ::yddd:: 


Edit: I am not on my own pc at the moment, but yes I have it in word, and I'll post it all later!

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on your continued success! This all sounds very promising! I will await further reports!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

I might put it into my old hypnosis thread - but while I am at it - this is the script transformed into text format so you can print it and change it and add stuff. What is in the spoiler is the draft of my own addition - it needs proper editing - which is one of my main hobbies after all!  ::wink::  
Probably I should throw out references to the noise - I just wish I had it again ..redface.gif
Maybe best leave out what's in the spoiler - at least for the first iterations - or in general!

And I still didn't do the 5th - procrastinating for a range of reasons - real life, boredom, fear of failure (not really), drunkenness (äham..).
Lack of personal peace and lack of novelty - personal stupidity - whatever.
For those not being aware - you read it to yourself aloud!
Anyway - here goes:


*THE INSTANT SELF-HYPNOSIS READER'S INDUCTION: * 

"Feeling a sense of privacy and comfort, I allow the sound of my own voice to soothe my mind and body while I speak slowly and softly. My body is slowing down as though everything is moving in slow motion. With every word I read and every sound I utter, I feel more relaxed and at peace. 
Moment by moment, my mind is becoming as clear as the surface of a calm and quiet mountain lake. 

"As my mind clears, I use my imagination to relax more deeply while I read. I imagine that I am sitting on a comfortable chair on a beautiful beach. With my peripheral vision, I see the golden sand that surrounds me ... and the waves crashing on the shore. I hear the gentle and rhythmic sounds they make. I feel a moist sea breeze waft over my body. I notice the warm sun on my skin. I feel its golden touch on my scalp, allowing me to let go of any excess tension in my scalp. 
All of my thoughts seem to quiet down now as I concentrate my attention on the sun's warmth on my face ... on my cheeks ... on my ears ... and around my jaw. The healing light seems to caress my neck and to warm my throat, allowing the words to flow easily and effortlessly from my mouth. It feels as though hundreds of tiny fingers of light are massaging my shoulders and my upper back as I relax-waves of warmth and relaxation cascade down ... down my arms and out through my fingers. 
"As I take a slow breath and exhale I become aware of this relaxing feeling filling my chest (take a breath and exhale slowly). A golden-yellow radiance floods my solar plexus as I take another slow breath and release it (take another breath) ...
and I feel sense of tranquillity and deep peacefulness fill my entire stomach area. I mentally scan my hips, pelvis, and buttocks ... and let any tension or anxiety there be gently washed away by a stream of light. I become aware of my legs now ... they are almost aglow as sunlight floods down through them. My legs feel so relaxed. Even my feet and toes feel warm and comfortable ... warm and comfortable now. 
"As I bask in the glorious sun, I imagine closing my eyes as I prepare to hypnotize myself. I draw three slow deep breaths (draw three deep breaths). For a few moments I can see the glow of orange light through my closed eyelids. But now that light fades into a comforting darkness as I draw my attention inward ... inward ... toward the center of my mind. 

"I imagine that I am approaching a tall, modern, and familiar building. I walk through the revolving door and step into a beautiful lobby. Inside the building stands a strong, armed security guard who secures the building from intruders. The guard looks at me with a steely glare, but then recognizes me as the owner of the building. The guard works for me. I give the guard a self-satisfied nod and make my way toward the elevator. I see the reflection of myself in the mirrorlike surface of the elevator doors. I look relaxed and confident. I press the down arrow and the doors of the elevator open. I feel very safe as I step into a spacious and luxurious elevator car. I turn toward the panel of buttons which indicate the floor numbers. I press the number ten, which lights up as the elevator doors close. The elevator car begins to move down smoothly through the long, deep elevator shaft... with a very gentle humming sound. I watch the numbered lights above the door as they change. Each number lights up for a moment as the elevator moves past the indicated floor. 
As the numbers change ... one by one ... 1 feel myself descending to a wonderful place within myself. .. far beneath the surface. 

"One ... 1 watch the numbers as the elevator moves down ... deeper down with every number. 
"Two ... deeper beneath the surface of this great structure ... down below the surface now. 
"Three by the time I reach the tenth number, I will be hypnotized. 
"Four 1 will be hypnotized with my eyes open ... open to all beneficial suggestions. 
"Five I feel myself descending ... smoothly ... effortlessly. 
"Six still watching the number change above the door. .. one by one. 
"Seven ... going deeper now ... feeling peaceful and relaxed. 
"Eight. .. 1 am safe .. .I feel calm ... going down ... down ... deeper down. 
"Nine 1 allow myself to enter into hypnosis with my eyes open. 
"Ten the elevator car comes to a smooth halt as I reach my destination. 
"As the doors open, I enter into a comfortably furnished reading room. A burning log in the fireplace crackles and blazes brightly, as if welcoming me into the chamber. I approach a very comfortable-looking chair and sit down. I pick up a book on a small table next to the chair. I read the cover of the book, which says Instant Self Hypnosis. I open the book and begin to read. And the words address me directly and seem to jump off of the pages and into my mind. Here is what they say: 
You are now hypnotized with your eyes open. You are now highly suggestible. You will remain in hypnosis while you read the suggestions for your goal. Your mind soaks in the suggestions now the way a sponge soaks in water. You can easily stay hypnotized with your eyes open until you read the 'Wake-Up.' You remain calm and focused as you turn to your bookmark.'" 

_(Please turn to your selected script.)_  


*LUCID DREAMS TONIGHT:* 

The following suggestions are designed to encourage dreams in which one becomes self-aware. 
 "I become aware that I am dreaming while I continue to dream. I am now able to realize while asleep that I am in the midst of a dream. I am aware when I am dreaming, and I control my own actions. I have lucid dreams, without waking up from sleep. I will realize that I am actually asleep in bed but that I am still asleep as I dream. I will become a self-aware observer as well as a participant of my dreams. When I become aware that I am dreaming, I have more control over my dreams. I am able to effect the outcome of my dreams as I become self-aware while dreaming. I will have more fun while I sleep as I become lucid while dreaming. 
 "I imagine myself in bed asleep at night. From somewhere deep inside my mind .. .images, sounds, and feelings are conjured, as my mind's inner movie projector presents a dream. 
 Suddenly, in a flash of insight, I feel myself become aware that the images are a projection of my mind ... 1 realize that I am in the middle of a dream. I am completely aware that what I see, hear, and feel is a product of my own mind. I also realize that I can say or do anything I wish to say or do in the dream as the dream continues. I can even choose to change the images and events in the dream by gently and confidently using my will power. 
 "I am a lucid dreamer now. I experience lucid dreams. 


*Spoiler* for _my WILD addition draft - to be improved .._: 



I do not only realize, that I am dreaming, while I am in the dream – I am also able to transition into a lucid dream directly from the waking state.
It comes naturally to me to balance awareness exactly so, that I am able to fall asleep, while I remain completely lucid at the same time, like in waking life.
My intentions for the dream - what I daydream about before the transition - will be part of my lucid dream later on.
I concentrate on my breathing, and I watch the images on the back of my eyelids, and relax. I experience vibrations then, and glide over effortlessly into my lucid dream. The transition from waking state into the lucid dream comes completely naturally to me, it is effortless and takes only a few minutes of patience for its completion.
All of my lucid dreams are long, and vivid, and very stable – everything looks feels and sounds completely realistic, or even hyper-realistic, right from the start. The visual quality of my dreams is extraordinarily good, even sublime, over the full duration of my lucid dreams.
All my other senses are working on such a level of quality as well, and I am in full control of my dream-body, and of my actions and interactions with my inner virtual world. I am always fully aware, that I am dreaming, and that all I experience in my dream, is a product of my own imagination. I can do anything I want in my lucid dreams – change the scenery, teleport, summon things or people, transform into another creature – and anything else, this mind of mine can think up! I am confident in my mastery of the dreamworld - dream-control of any level comes easily to me, naturally.


Beginning tonight, I will produce a dream in which I become self-aware. I will know that I am dreaming and that I have full control over my actions in the dream. I will remember the lucid dreams that I have so that I can enjoy thinking about them the next day. I am a lucid dreamer. I have lucid dreams when I sleep." 

*(The Wake-Up) * 

"I will awaken from hypnosis by counting to five. When I reach the number five, I will become fully alert and wide awake. One ... beginning to awaken from hypnosis. Two ... becoming aware of my surroundings ... feeling satisfied, safe, and comfortable. Three .. .looking forward to positive results from this hypnosis session. Four. .. feeling absolutely wonderful. FIVE ... FIVE ... FIVE ... now wide awake and fully alert." 


_Don't do a wakeup in between, if you do two scripts, of course. And my stuff is untested and I found language to be important - it didn't work in translation to German - at least not as well - didn't feel as hypnotizing. And I personally would do recall first, if I did both, which I didn't yet._


*AMAZING DREAM RECALL:* 

The following suggestions are designed to promote retention of dreams upon awakening. 
 "I remember my dreams when I wake up in the morning. My memory of my dreams and all of the details gets better and better every day. Upon awakening, I'm able to recall the images, sounds, and feelings I experienced in my dreams. I can do this very easily and effortlessly. I retain ... in vivid detail. .. the events as they appeared in my dreams. I value the ability of my subconscious mind to create dreams for me. I am strengthening the communication between my conscious and subconscious minds right now through the tool of hypnosis. And I use hypnosis as a means to instruct my subconscious to allow perfect recall of my dreams upon awakening. My mind records and remembers dreams that are important for me to recall. 
 "I feel a sense of satisfaction that I am able to recount the images and events from my dreams. I am able to recall dreams and write down all details with total clarity if I choose. By remembering my dreams, I will gain insights to my life in order to live better and be more productive. I imagine waking up in the morning now, after a restful night's sleep. As I lay in bed, I remain quiet and allow my mind to recall the details of an important dream I had while asleep. I picture myself remembering the dream so vividly ... that it's like experiencing it all over again, even while I am awake. The details are vivid and bright, and the events are fresh in my mind. I reach for a notepad or journal next to the bed and I write down the dream I had with perfect clarity. I can remember exactly how the dream began, how it ended ... and all of the details of the dream in between. First this, then that, and so on ... until I have recalled the entire dream. From now on, when I wake up, the memory of dreams from the night instantly surface in my mind ... swiftly and with ease and clarity. Tomorrow morning when I awaken naturally from sleep, I will pause for a minute before getting out of bed. And as I relax for a minute, the memory of the night's dreams will become fully active. I will remember the night's dreams with complete ease. I will let the vivid details of the dreams rise to the surface of my awareness. I will have total and amazing recall of my dreams." 

*(The Wake-Up)* 

 "I will awaken from hypnosis by counting to five. When I reach the number five, I will become fully alert and wide awake. One ... beginning to awaken from hypnosis. Two ... becoming aware of my surroundings ... feeling satisfied, safe, and comfortable. Three .. .looking forward to positive results from this hypnosis session. Four ... feeling absolutely wonderful. FIVE ... FIVE ... FIVE ... now wide awake and fully alert."

Huge thank you to the author *FORBES ROBBINS BLAIR* for making parts of his book available!


Happy testing and wish me luck to finally overcome procrastination doing the fifth.
And one more thing - got lucid last night again - but decided to go on dreaming non-lucidly, because it was nice - and because I am an idiot.

----------


## FryingMan

Thanks for the post!   Do you read it every time or did you record your voice and play it back?   I've read through this a few times at bedtime myself, and I like it, but I find that my reading distracts from the visualization and the relaxing a little bit, especially doing down the elevator.    So I'll try voice recording it and see how it goes.

I recall reading in his directions that the relaxation part should be read with a level and relaxing tone, but the specific theme part that follows the elevator descent should be read with emphasis and emotion and excitement, just FYI.

Oh, and my wife completed a number of courses in hypnotherapy, and she always tells me that the mind does not accept negative statements, so avoid all "not...", "no..." etc. forms -- always frame everything positively.  I noticed this at the start of your WILD spoiler.

----------


## StephL

I always read it out loud up to now!
Yeah - the spoiler is under construction - thanks for the pointer!

----------


## fogelbise

Thank you Steph!  ::D:  Trying this tonight! The author suggested to do a separate session if working on more than one thing (e.g. dream recall and lucid dreaming...doing only one per session...perhaps one of those two in the afternoon and the other in the evening). It sounds like the way you were doing it as well. And good luck to you on buckling down and completing a fifth session.  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Just been finally doing number 5 without my extension.
I wanted to rather use the evening like usual - but all my evenings lately sprang some surprise or other on me, and I didn't want to risk failing to do it again ..rolleyes.gif
Now I am eagerly and a bit fretfully awaiting the hopefully even more impressive results than last time!
If nothing happens - well - _then_ I can think about it - but for now I will expect only the best!

 ::yddd:: 






> I recall reading in his directions that the relaxation part should be read with a level and relaxing tone, but the specific theme part that follows the elevator descent should be read with emphasis and emotion and excitement



I can feel my voice change in exactly that way on its own - the change in tonality feels typically hypnotic - theoretically you could override it - but you simply don't want to. This was giving me confidence in the effectiveness right from the start - that I got an unusual/atypical tone of voice (two different ones - the relaxing and the emphatic one, both not like my usual English voice) without consciously willing it.
Please tell us, how it goes with recording!



Edit: Too late to edit the above - but please check for little mistakes, before printing the scripts - there are some numbers "1" instead of I at the elevator, and two times a plural "s" is missing.

----------


## StephL

Hm - three nights nothing now.
Somehow I was afraid of this being the case - see my procrastination posts. Well - good.
I'll do one more session today and go the usual extended way with proper WBTB and a bit of MILD and RCs in the day, too.

Ha - mooment - edit:
Thinking back a bit more properly - I had at least a dream _about_ LDing the night after the 5th repetition - posted that in the one-sentence-dreams:





> I was with 4 other people, sitting on stools in a semicircle, each with a wine barrel in front of us - open at the top, and we looked inside, and were very disappointed, because none of us had enough lucidity in their barrel to go dreaming with it! Mine had just a puddle of murky fluid 1 cm deep..



And now while writing a bit of DJ - I remember an episode, which should have made me lucid last night:





> I looked out the window, and saw a quite indistinct street, expecting to see Munich - and then I thought - ah - this is okay, the view from my dream-flats is usually a bit mixed up...
> How could I not react to that!!??



And I remember one more time, when I have thought - I might fly the rest of the way - and then thought - na - this is not a dream.

Well, well, well - I think I need way better recall to get these small hints in-dream - why I think that, I don't quite know, but I feel, what I really need at the moment is muuch better recall!

----------


## fogelbise

> Just been finally doing number 5 without my extension.



Good job!





> Ha - mooment - edit:
> Thinking back a bit more properly - I had at least a dream _about_ LDing the night after the 5th repetition - posted that in the one-sentence-dreams:
> 
> And now while writing a bit of DJ - I remember an episode, which should have made me lucid last night:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That sounded like some kind of meaningful dream related to you being worried about the well running dry...no worries, it is only temporary (the three days being semi-dry). 

The dream recall self-hypnosis perhaps! Or standard mantra or other tricks that you know...  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Yupp - going to do the recall session today - been kept off doing my stuff again yesterday, except some RCs and too tired for WBTB.
It was quite good last night - I had 2 complete dreams after waking up - but the I-Phone was out of juice and I didn't record them. Maybe I'll try to bring it back later in parts for DJ.

I forgot to mention an almost WILD success in a nap yesterday:





> I was sooo close just before!
> Taking a nap, concentrating on my breathing, watching the optics on the back of my eyelids, which were really interesting - and they stayed to be looked at properly for a while at times, and crystallized to scenes at times as well. Bit of mantraing..
> And then - that was not the first thing - of all things, I had before dreamt of stuffing candy in my mouth - but then I dreamt of scratching an itch on my chin - and realized, that my arm was at the time lying next to me, and not scratching!!
> That jolted me awake then - damn!!







> Yeah - it's so hard for me to keep my cool when "something happens" in a WILD attempt - tends to give me a surge of excitement, physically.
> Thankfully that doesn't happen in DILD - but at least this time something_ did_ happen, and I'll hopefully get used to the craziness of it all soon!
> Bit paradoxical, this - I obviously did dream already - but I didn't know that - so technically it wasn't an LD - despite me being otherwise of almost waking-life functionality, cognitively. On the other hand - why find it normal to take a piece of candy and eat it in the middle of a WILD attempt. I would never do that - so I _was_ clouded after all.

----------


## fogelbise

Glad to hear that you made some progress on the WILD attempt.  :smiley:  From those two quotes, it sounds like you already got some feedback from the expert.

I meant to include in my post yesterday (I was rushing) that I did use the lucid dreaming self hypnosis script several days ago and I am assuming that it was the reason for some multiple LDs. Thank you again Steph! Yesterday I did the recall script but last night I played two grueling league games and was knocked out for the night, so results on the recall script TBD.

----------


## StephL

This is great!!
Congratulation on the multiple LDs!

----------


## StephL

Hi fogelbise!
 ::alien:: 

Long time no see - I hope you are fine!
I am (again) - and especially I am happy that I had four count-worthy LDs and some little lucid moments throughout the last two weeks without actually doing something for them, or even posting and reading on here.

Last night again - and it was a long one, where I knew it was a dream all the while - but I wasn't properly clear either. I had almost no control, and the dream-scene was shifty, a bit wishi-washi and I couldn't rely on turning around and having the same (boring) stuff behind me as before.
It felt a bit as if I was in a computer-simulation and there was a problem with cable-connections or something.

The only thing that was nice, was finding that I can still take off with pointing my arm somewhere - and it's still much too fast for leisurely flying about or navigating on the fly. Seems to be coming with that super-woman schema, I'm drawing on.

But yeah - summoning - nope. Which might have had to do with a certain indecision and not concentrating properly.
In the end I didn't know what to do and thought - ah to heck with it - I could just as well try populating an aquarium just for myself.
Couldn't find one though - only a scenery like the Northern See shore here in Germany and in a grey and depressing weather. I went in and diving - that worked, I needed no air - but there was nobody, and I didn't manage to summon or even right-out create somebody either. Hm.
Just water and sand and some dead sea-weed.

I'll see what I can do with a bit of incubation - my main lucid goal didn't even cross my mind - namely to start my lucid darting again finally.
And my darting has a little renaissance at the moment - including my old virtual home around the topic - and I have a brand-new set of daarts!

----------


## fogelbise

Yes, long time indeed...I have missed interacting with you.  :smiley:  Nice results on the lucids!! Do you think it is attributable to your self-hypnosis script and sessions? I have seen a number of successful lucid dreamers say that you eventually stop having LDs if you stop putting in some sort of effort or habit, but perhaps a certain amount of the self-hypnosis work can prove otherwise. That would be nice! Sometimes we can also create a clog in the lucid dreaming pipeline when we try too hard and then when we stop trying the gates open up for a little while. I hope it is a long term trend though! I have been so busy and slacking on my practices but I do intend to do some more self-hypnosis sessions. I did have good recall results the night of my first recall session but need to do more sessions and then plan to go back to the lucid script.

Yes, some incubation and some focus should bring you the results you are looking for. I wouldn't worry in the least about any of the challenges that you mentioned above...all temporary I'm sure.

----------


## StephL

Maybe it has to do with my hypnosis sessions - it could really be. As I said to another opportunity - I really get bored too easily - last time I stopped reading aloud in mid-script, but I might come to record something to listen to instead.

It's actually a great feeling not to have to do anything and one or two show up on their own per week!
But quality really needs working on.

----------


## fogelbise

> Maybe it has to do with my hypnosis sessions - it could really be. As I said to another opportunity - I really get bored too easily - last time I stopped reading aloud in mid-script, but I might come to record something to listen to instead.
> 
> It's actually a great feeling not to have to do anything and one or two show up on their own per week!
> But quality really needs working on.



I would think that it would be more effective spoken out loud all the way through. However, doing it in some way has to be better than no longer doing it at all. I think the script helped me to get 3 LDs the morning of July 4th and 2 this morning July 5th. I had done the lucid script July 3rd in the evening. Like you mentioned though, I also need to work on quality.

----------


## StephL

Sounds good - very, actually! Congratulation!
I think you are right - it is probably really better and at least meant to be read out loud. Hm - I might give it another shot. How many have you done?
I'm not exactly a patient person and get bored quite fast - a shame considering that this repetitive method seemed to really work for me.
What do you plan for quality? All that comes to my mind is meditation* maybe with some incubation, daydreaming?

*with that I am only lazy, but never bored by the way...

----------


## fogelbise

Thank you.  :smiley:  I haven't kept count, but I would guess that I did the lucid script about 6 or 7 times now and the recall script maybe 4 times, both in a span of a little over one month so certainly not daily. It can feel a little lengthy to me at times, but it goes fairly quick and I try to enjoy the beach, elevator and reading room visualization. It is kind of like meditating in a way.

For quality I plan to really remember to slow down and look around as soon as I become lucid. To help this I practice during the day with my reality checks...practice how I will react when I become lucid.

----------


## StephL

Hm, hm - funnily - now back active here I didn't have one yet.
But I (but still) do nothing - I should definitively start with RCs again, and also under your above consideration. Forming a ritual maybe.
And I actually didn't dislike the text at all - like I disliked the one, where the follow-up is missing.
So I might go about it again as well - and journalling!

----------


## fogelbise

^^I really do believe those fundamentals help. I have been way too lazy with day practices, so I am itching for my next lucid dream. I thought for sure it would be last night...possibly semi-lucid last night. Having vivid dreams at least. You will be back at it before long as well!

----------


## StephL

My recall is pretty good - and I did two of your extended RCs with looking at things in detail, feeling things, moving, thinking the LD situation through, being surprised at all the details. One time from coming outside, seeing our house, thinking wow - I will go in and find my dartboard, I remember it is there and so forth - but I stopped throwing some actual darts, because I was waay off target and I hope, that's not going to be so in the dream.
I even went to a light-switch and told it, that yepp, this is a dream, but it should now work anyway since it does for other LDers as well - and eureka - there was light... ::D:

----------


## fogelbise

Very nice! That is exactly what I had in mind! And you took it further with the light switch!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

And it worked! 
Maybe it's the hypnosis back-bone why access seems easy now - just a bit of attention towards it like doing two of these extended RCs and I'm ready to go rip my clothes off in public! 

 ::yddd::

----------


## fogelbise

Awesome! I would not be surprised that the hypnosis backbone is helping there and your little bit of focus perhaps reminds your subconscious to be aware perhaps! Congrats Steph!!  ::D:

----------


## StephL

Thank you!
Also great that Sensei runs a comp - I really look forward to that!

What is also nice lately is that my normal dreams seem to be going my way much more. For example there are some people appearing in my dreams whom I didn't see irl for a loong time and I would want to speak with them or have adventures - and so often I couldn't get to them for some reason. Up to people not wanting to, ignoring me and lalala.
Over the last nights I finally had a really cool dream with one of these - a happy one and with making a date for further togetherness. Very sweet. A bit as if I would "claw" my way through a series of very similar dreams over days or longer - and the outcome keeps getting more pleasurable - from rather disastrous to really nice. One such series with another person stopped after me achieving this. Almost as if my dreaming mind had certain things on it's to do list...
And thinking about it, it is also in the script - having more control over normal dreams and more fun.
I know what I want to happen in the dream and I give my best to achieve it - and I get better at it but slowly.

Subliminally knowing that _it is a dream_ might be playing a back-ground role here as well - anyway - I really feel more in control in non-LDs lately.

----------


## fogelbise

^^This is an awesome development! Very nice Steph!  :smiley:  It makes me want to do the script some more.

----------


## StephL

Hi there!
Feels good - I had day before yesterday just told myself I would lucid dream and got the TOTM (with that aim), did this yesterday again, just that - just wanting to - again lucid, even twice. 
The competition will show what I have to think of this - coincidence or if it's really that easy now.
Why wouldn't I want to LD explicitly, just that, all the other nights? Because:

My was it super weak and short again - one was just the realisation and waking up. In the other one I found myself in a situation on a mountain, where I was already afraid to fall - became lucid but the fear didn't go away - I didn't even dare to fly and I almost always fly - just not usually over several hundreds of meters drop right from the start. I've been higher once - but that scared me as well - especially the enormous speed I had gotten there with, superwoman style.

Anyway - what I did was being precariously situated on a boulder and I looking around. Something is wrong with me, really. I wasn't able to focus on little stuff, with looking closer, stuff disappeared. But I could look around, and if I didn't dwell on something I could see it. But still not as if I was really there. And when a DC came along and took up the storyline again - I was gone and lost in it...

----------


## fogelbise

> Hi there!
> Feels good - I had day before yesterday just told myself I would lucid dream and got the TOTM (with that aim), did this yesterday again, just that - just wanting to - again lucid, even twice.



Congratulations Steph!! Stay confident and keep getting lucid and the rest will come with time!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Hold your thumbs - now it worked three days in a row with just intense intention-setting!
But what on earth to do for quality?!

Again super short and I was only going about trying to stabilize the simulation. Maybe it hinders me to think of it as such? But how can I not? How can I come to really trust my inner projector to do it's job properly? Or what actually *is* my problem??!

 ::fly:: 


Hukif has suggested it might have to do with the trauma of my first adult LD, where the most terrifying thing was that I thought I would be caught up completely with all my being and senses in another plane of existence, which was hyper-realistic, and that I wouldn't find my body back. I don't quite think so, since there were other instances, especially the first LD after that, ten years later, which was completely stable, but maybe not *that* tangible either, now I think of it...
But if he is right with this, then my fear must be totally subliminal, not consciously noticeable...
Since DV (another ten years later) there was another such one from catching a FA and the others weren't all bad, either. But never again did I have this feeling of absolute and real presence in a physical world like in that Castaneda-connected one...
I would go crazy for LDing practice if I got that again only one time - and I think if I were really that active - I could maybe rock'n roll in all my nights - dilemma!

Could there be a connection between FA and the exceptional quality of the LD I got from catching it?
Or was it maybe that very fear and the firm belief to have landed in a "quasi-physical" place which did it for me in the first one?
But how the heck then achieve this effect again, if so?!

----------


## fogelbise

Hmmm...it may just take time and some day practices...and to perhaps also not think about it as stabilizing but just something you do that just happens to lengthen your dreams. The moment you worry about the dream ending or worry about stabilizing, it can start to unravel.  I also had a period recently where I was wondering why my LDs were short after having quite a few longish ones and (fingers crossed, knock on wood) I think I solved that for now. What I did was that I just practiced slowing down whenever I simulate becoming lucid during my daytime reality checks. I don't say "got to stabilize" as that can create worry...I just do slow down, feel the excitement and think about my goals which also makes it easier to remember goals. But is this what you meant by "stabilize the simulation?" Or was that in reference to the actual lucid dream being a simulation versus a real place?

----------


## StephL

Yeah - that was what I meant. I will do that again - will try to simulate stabilizing the simulation in real life - your extended RCs. No LD last night, by the way - but this night!! I guess positive excitement does play a role, lets see if I can't take it slowly and calmly the next time, being really prepared from playing it through in the day.
Thank you again - you are fabulous!

----------


## fogelbise

You are too kind! Thank you!  :smiley:  I do believe it will help a lot, over time. Funny thing though...I had a short one last night, but I am quite sure it was at the end of my REM cycle. I realized I was dreaming when I had trouble speaking and then my voice came out iiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnn    sssssssllllllloooooowwwww    mmmmmmmmmooooooooottttttttiiiiiiiiiiooooooooonnnnn  .

----------


## StephL

Yeah!! It could simply be that I really get lucid at the very end of REM always/only - esp. since I don't do any techniques to induce - ha - I know I should!
Well - comp is coming - that's perfect timing!
And I had this also and lots of times - I can't talk, only croak, and at least one lucid croaking was witnessed from outside by my husband!
Since we almost never sleep in one bed - this could be true always for vocalizing problems, and it must mean I'm half awake, if I actually use my real voice at the same time!
Maybe it's as simple as that - if only I could do the WILD...

----------


## fogelbise

I could see that playing a factor. Perhaps you need to be closer to waking up for the self-hypnosis to work completely on it's own, but with a technique added in like WBTB and day practices, you have a better chance to activate the necessary parts of the brain earlier in the dream/REM cycle. I do think that the hypnosis should also have a residual effect to where your subconscious is thinking about LDing before bed and during awakenings, which should help as well.

----------


## StephL

I hope I'll use the comp-time to really get going, finally, again!  ::wink::

----------


## StephL

Finally - one hypnosis session again - now I feel weird - don't want it to not work... ::roll::

----------


## fogelbise

Awe...don't think of it that way...it will work!...even if not the very night that you do it, it must have a cumulative effect I feel!

----------


## StephL

I'll see - maybe I feel like one more later - now having been lucid a bit already - motivation is quite good again! 

 ::giraffe::

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats on the LD!!  :smiley:  I will check out your DJ tomorrow...running out the door tonight.

----------


## StephL

Congratulation on yours, too!!
Will check out your DJ a bit more as well - puuh - the comp is full-time forum action this time!
It worked again, hypnosis I mean! If I go by what this supposed research project asked of us, it might be good to just simply keep it up 
every day from now till comp's over... ::yddd:: 

And I'm doing several of your extended RCs a day as well - even pretended to climb on the balcony-railing to go advanced flying from there.
Good that my husband didn't see that... ::D:

----------


## fogelbise

> Congratulation on yours, too!!
> Will check out your DJ a bit more as well - puuh - the comp is full-time forum action this time!
> It worked again, hypnosis I mean! If I go by what this supposed research project asked of us, it might be good to just simply keep it up 
> every day from now till comp's over...
> 
> And I'm doing several of your extended RCs a day as well - even pretended to climb on the balcony-railing to go advanced flying from there.
> Good that my husband didn't see that...



I am so happy that you are doing well!! Yeah, I can't keep up with the comp thread and I'm in the midst of a busy weekend but I do plan to make time for a self hyp session.

Haha...yes, I often wonder what I will say when somebody catches me doing the extended RCs.

----------


## StephL

Just checking in with really good news - I had a nice lucid with attempting Maxis' dare to transform into a cat and/or survive suicide - I chickened out from getting struck by my lighting storm, woke up - and had a DEILD. When I posted this early in the day, I didn't remember any more, that I had also played darts lucidly in the DEILD. I had a further night with other dreams after this, and seems I had forgotten it, not that it was much, and it was what lead to losing lucidity. Only standing at my real board and throwing brought it back. Very pleased! But I couldn't get the board re-fixed at a bit higher, it was too low, but I threw some arrows at it - yay!! Without incubation I knew, what would be a good idea!

I was about to listen to my recorded session for the first time - doesn't work - my accent nerves me now on top of all else, I stopped in the intro.
But then I did really invest energy in trying to WILD at bedtime and with self-suggestions - I think, that did it. Like - when I see this, then... 
Different from the comp - it was a dream-sign and an RC what made me lucid, and still I was unsure, funny.
And I didn't even mention the sign, I noticed in the end..

Edit: Too Cowardly for Suicide Mission on Maxis Behalf - Lightning Bolts and Half-Cattiness - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

----------


## fogelbise

Congrats Steph!!! I had an idea while reading your post. If you really want to be struck by lightning in an LD, perhaps an idea to consider would be to think of the lightning as energizing you...or perhaps an attraction of two forces: you and the lightning bolt. Another idea is to welcome the rebirth..."strike me down and I will become one with the earth and sky" for example. How about a "bring it on...give me what you got!" attitude?

I love these explorations you are going after! Keep up the great work!  :smiley:

----------


## StephL

Thank you!
Yeah - I will do that - imagine something like a cleansing energetic lift-up - but they were so huge, and I was so small. Might be easier to do that in human standing - beckoning them on, feeling a bit more prepared than as a small, half translucent critter on all fours. I guess, if I wouldn't know so well, how it feels, looks and sounds, when lightning strikes a few meters off, it would be way easier.
But on the other hand - this promises to get really intense, if I manage!
Thing is - to fulfil the dare, I need stay in the same dream - prove my cattiness by surviving death!
The sounds were completely missing in my attempt by the way and thank goodness for that. It's strangely no wonder for me intuitively, that loud things can happen silently in dreams, it seems to be normal or lets say quite common? My meteors were also eerily silent, maybe so are real ones, but not their impacts!

As a kid, long before my own experience, I thought that would be a good way to go - say you are very old and very sick, bound to end up on intensive care to badly and hopelessly suffer along till you die - getting on a mountain in a thunderstorm and that's it. Very unrealistic in many respects, but I thought of it as a dignified way to die as a child - grand gesture of a wise old witch...  I think, that's maybe why I chose it. I wasn't overly intensely considering back then, how a sick old woman should get up a mountain in time, neither the poor souls having to scrape her remains off the rocks...
Enough morbid talk - I'll report about further attempts!

Anyway - edit - a clever cat has a back-up plan - so I'll prepare for summoning a sword to fall into and call it fall-back option!

Even later edit: Idea! I let the lightning bolt transform me into a cat!! pawprint.gif

----------


## fogelbise

I wonder what it is about certain sounds. I definitely hear sounds like interactions with DCs and more, but you have a point with your thunder and meteor impact examples. It leaves me stretching to think of how many examples of less ordinary sounds I have heard in dreams. Visuals and sensations seem to be what I remember very well long after the dreams.

The morbid part of your post did sound a little like a "romantic" death. 

I like that idea at the end for the transformation!

----------


## StephL

Yeah - sure, romantic little girl thinking! 

Ha - maybe I even have an answer to the loud noises thing - goes the same for smell and intense haptics. I read a fascinating book a Darwinian perspective on Medicine, but for laywomen, too, "Why We Get Sick" Randolph M. Nesse. And he has the idea, that it is so, in order for loud noises, predator-smells and, for example your baby grabbing you viciously, to be able to reach through to the dreaming mind and warn and wake you up, when there's something in real life to attend to. Makes sense - just speculation - but makes sense!

Yeah - wish me luck with transformation by lightning strike - maybe I trod off a fashion, if it works!  ::D:

----------


## fogelbise

Most definitely! Good luck! You got this!  ::D: 

I like that theory you mentioned. It definitely makes a lot of sense.

----------


## StephL

Hi there!
Been totally neglecting LDing practice, but I still get lucid from time to time, maybe once a week or so.
There was even a little string of them last week/weekend and it's got me motivated. So maybe I'll be around and working again - they were way too short and lacking preparation and a goal, I just slipped back into normal dreaming while marvelling at my state and dream-scenery.
I feel like trying some TOTMs, lets see if I get something dreamt together!

 ::yddd::

----------


## fogelbise

It's great to see you around here again!!  :smiley:  Did you have any partial practices going that helped you to continue to get lucid? Definitely putting some more work in should yield better lucid length and the ability to complete goals or tasks. I really like the bonus task this month but have only attempted it once. I plan to try it again with a different strategy.

----------


## StephL

Thank you!

Nope - I did absolutely nothing to induce them, didn't give them much thought either. I just sometimes "break through". Sometimes I notice incoherency, but mostly I just feel myself mentally surfacing seemingly out of the blue. I'm very grateful for that, feels like I can always take up the practice again and be relatively sure it's going to work.

Buut - quality, control and duration have never been really satisfying, that's where I need to put in the work, not to lose interest again.

----------


## FryingMan

Hey StephL!   It takes time to build up the awareness that results in lucidity: it doesn't come instantly, and it doesn't go instantly, which is why you can experience lucidity without doing much work.    But like any muscle or skill, if you don't exercise it the ability will atrophy eventually.   Perhaps you could look for opportunities during the day for critical reflection/intention.   I've been working on mindfulness for going on a year now and over time it has drastically improved the vividness and presence of dreams.   While full lucidity is still a challenge, I get semi-lucid much more now.       I'd personally recommend mindfulness as it is not only benefits dreaming, but all conscious moments, and helps one to appreciate waking life more as well.

----------


## StephL

Thank you Fryingman!
Yeah, I believe what I need is indeed the awareness work/meditation in order to hold on to that little bit awareness which shines through from time to time.
Since my last post again twice lucid and twice lost it in short order, without remembering what or even that I have plans.
I should also start to journal again - oh well - at least I have the_ intention_ to get to work again, and that's better than the last months... ::roll::

----------

