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    Thread: The Nature of Dream Control

    1. #101
      Member anomanderis's Avatar
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      the links work for me. just try searching for derren brown.

    2. #102
      Member anomanderis's Avatar
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      I had a weird kind of lucid nightmare this morning. I was in a massive underground tunnel, it was practically pitch-black and the only things separating me from falling into the pit were these quite solid, but still dodgy-looking metal gratings.
      I became lucid and I was afraid. Maybe because of the darkness. The fear made me think that there might be monsters close by. And then I thought 'Well, frack me, if there weren't any before, then me thinking this will make them appear anyway'. Which was true, because monsters started coming at me one by one. First an alien (conveniently from the movie Alien, you see. I had nightmares as a child when I watched those movies), then a predator, then someone I don't recall and finally a glowing skeleton-thingy with a luminescent chain with a circular blade at the end of it.
      I didn't fail to defeat them, though. As they came at me, I made them into little hand-sized figures and gobbled them up.
      It bothers me that I felt such fear "out of the blu- um.. dark" and that I didn't realize I could dispel the monsters by thinking happy thoughts. I wasn't afraid of the monsters themselves, but of the surrounding environment. Guess it still shows that I was really really scared of the dark when I was younger. Even though I love darkness now.
      Last edited by anomanderis; 07-03-2008 at 08:30 AM.

    3. #103
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tommo View Post
      Yeh that's what I'm talking bout' cusp, little gestures or expressions and such that you can do that make people do certain things. Just like a smile can make someone feel happy other things can make people do or feel something else.
      Here's another example, again from my high school years, which I'm very proud of. Our english class was debating the pros and cons of the Nuclear family (Mother, father, 2.5 kids and a dog), and as we were allowed to make our own groups, it turned into the guys VS. the girls.

      Our side was at a bit of a disadvantage, as the girls tended to be harder working than the guys, and their group had the smartest people in the class. The topic of homosexual couples raising kids came up on our side, and the girls overheard us and started coming up with counter arguments, which I happened to overhear.

      It's then that I came up with my plan. We would pretend to be biased against homosexuals, and make it appear that this aspect would be our main argument. This made the girls do a lot of work coming up with great counter arguments. Unfortunately for them, when the debate rolled around, we avoided that topic like slick politicians, so that all their hard work was completely wasted and irrelevant.

      One of the most effective methods to accomplish this trickery for the debate was a massive green tome my friend found at the library, which said "GAY IS NOT GOOD" in big bold letters on the cover. We spent the majority of our class prep time thumping that book with our fists like it was a bible, which was great fun!

      Our opposition's greatest assets was their strong work ethic, so I used that against them. We directed their attention on that one topic, forcing them to spend the majority of their efforts preparing for it, then we blindsided them with topics they weren't so well prepared for and won the debate. They had no chance. I had single handedly won that debate on the first day it was announced.

      Quote Originally Posted by anomanderis View Post
      I had a weird kind of lucid nightmare this morning. I was in a massive underground tunnel, it was practically pitch-black and the only things separating me from falling into the pit were these quite solid, but still dodgy-looking metal gratings.
      I became lucid and I was afraid. Maybe because of the darkness. The fear made me think that there might be monsters close by. And then I thought 'Well, frack me, if there weren't any before, then me thinking this will make them appear anyway'. Which was true, because monsters started coming at me one by one. First an alien (conveniently from the movie Alien, you see. I had nightmares as a child when I watched those movies), then a predator, then someone I don't recall and finally a glowing skeleton-thingy with a luminescent chain with a circular blade at the end of it.
      I had somewhat similar non lucid dream last night. Only instead of expecting monsters, I was expecting prostitutes. And sure enough, there they were! They gave the best back rubs.
      Last edited by The Cusp; 07-03-2008 at 11:04 PM.
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    4. #104
      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      haha nice work on that debate cusp. Not really sure what a nuclear family has to do with gays, actually im not even sure wat a nuclear family is or how u can have two point five kids. but neway lol. That besides the point.

      one example I have of those looks or watever are whenever a teacher was picking a person to answer a question or read a book I could give a certain look and do certain things that would make them not choose me. (I hated talking in front of people so much) I seriously barely ever got chosen like 99% of the time I wouldn't. Except for when I did get chosen I knew I was going to get chosen I said to myself "oh fuck she's gonna choose me" and she did.

    5. #105
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      How long did it take for you to gain control over your lucidity, the Cusp?
      It seems that i'm not one to have lucids if i don't stick to my keep-that-bloody-awareness practice. Though when I do and when i don't force control (flying, for instance) i am able to retain lucidity much longer than usual. The time i am able to do this seems to be increasing (though not yet by minutes, just ten or more seconds per lucid spell).
      Today I had a weird lucid. When I force control, the end of lucidity (and me waking up) usually comes very abruptly, but when i'm not forcing it, i can sense it coming a few seconds ahead. I was lucid for quite a long time (compared to the usual length) and when i started losing it, i decided to try the hand method. I looked at them, rubbing them together to ground my awareness inside the dreamscape. As I looked at them, they strobed with an extremely bright white light and then sort of shifted positions erratically (sort of like when a light is blinking and you move your arms, so each time you see them, they are in a different position). Very weird.
      Now I was really starting to lose lucidity. I could hear the noises that my sleeping body was hearing, but because i kept rubbing my hands together, i managed to cling on to lucidity. So as not to move my physical hands, i kept the motion to a minimum.
      Half a minute more and I would've been lucid in a dream again, but that's when my alarm clock decided to ring

    6. #106
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      Quote Originally Posted by anomanderis View Post
      How long did it take for you to gain control over your lucidity, the Cusp?
      I really don't know how to answer that. I've probably been LDing for about 15 years, and I still wouldn't say I have control. There's just always so much do in dreaming, always something new to explore.

      My very first few lucids I failed at almost everything out of the ordinary that I tried to do. After a few successful tricks, I was able to repeat those I had previously done more easily. So I would rely on those one and use the hell out of them until I got really good. I tend to go overboard and have dreams where I repeat the same thing hundreds of times very quickly in different circumstances and scenarios. Every now and then I'd pull off a new trick and be able to replicate it much easier each time I tried it. Kind of like adding magical spells to a spellbook.

      And I've been pretty much doing that ever since. But, after doing that for so long, the stuff I try now can get pretty complex or abstract. To the point where often I will know I was lucid, but the things I was doing with it can't even be translated into a waking context. I'm just left with the impression that I was doing something either really important or really cool, and at best I can just recall a few flashes that don't seem to make any sense.
      Last edited by The Cusp; 07-10-2008 at 05:07 AM.

    7. #107
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      All my notes on various things are rather chaotic and I keep losing track of stuff, so I just want note some future topics on this subject here.

      -Next will most likely be my conclusions from my Vampire, Werewolf, Zombie study.

      -Then Secret origins of these rules and Shared dreaming.

      -Reconciling the ILDs. There are way too many LD techniques. There has to be elements these techniques have in common, and I'm willing to bet that the majority of them (Or at least the good ones) use these rules in some way.

      And for the RL side of things, which will take a lot of research, I have the following to investigate
      -Hypnotism - Look evidence of these rules in hypnotism methods. I'm sure I can use these rules to hypnotize people myself.
      -Summoning - A bit out there, but if there is any truth to it, then the rituals should mirror these rules as well.

      And I still have to finish the bit on creative writing. So much to do, so little time.
      Last edited by The Cusp; 07-15-2008 at 01:25 AM.

    8. #108
      with the power of 28!! seeker28's Avatar
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      Thanks, Cusp and everyone for keeping this going. It has been really interesting. I wanted to add a bit.

      When I was in juniour high and HS I used to do what I called "little miracles." All of my friends knew I could do this, so from time to time they'd ask me for one of my "miracles." Generally they'd track me down before school started and tell me they hadn't studied for a test or had forgotten their homework and needed their teacher in a specific class to not do the test or to not collect the homework. I'd say, "Okay, you have your miracle." Then, without fail, whatever they'd wanted would happen. Sometimes they wanted other stuff -- a guy to notice them, for their parents to not get mad for something they'd done, etc. And everytime it worked. I "granted" more than 100 miracles and never had any of them not come true. The law of attraction in action.

      Now I like to use it to get parking spaces where I want them.

      I dream frequently about my family members. Most of them do include some form of struggle or tension.
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    9. #109
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      Quote Originally Posted by seeker28 View Post
      Now I like to use it to get parking spaces where I want them.
      Lol, reminds of The Chasers, in one episode they're testing it and they're like driving around a parking lot and they're like. "Ok.... we have to use it, let's do it" and they put their fingers to their temples and visualise a parking space and ask for it etc etc. "Ok turn right...... NOW!" *SMASH* "WTF!?!?"
      Haha gotta see it.

      Oh and I'll be practicing some more RL things and report here. Haven't done anything in a while.

    10. #110
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      Quote Originally Posted by seeker28 View Post
      Thanks, Cusp and everyone for keeping this going. It has been really interesting. I wanted to add a bit.

      When I was in juniour high and HS I used to do what I called "little miracles." All of my friends knew I could do this, so from time to time they'd ask me for one of my "miracles." Generally they'd track me down before school started and tell me they hadn't studied for a test or had forgotten their homework and needed their teacher in a specific class to not do the test or to not collect the homework. I'd say, "Okay, you have your miracle." Then, without fail, whatever they'd wanted would happen. Sometimes they wanted other stuff -- a guy to notice them, for their parents to not get mad for something they'd done, etc. And everytime it worked. I "granted" more than 100 miracles and never had any of them not come true. The law of attraction in action.

      Now I like to use it to get parking spaces where I want them.

      I dream frequently about my family members. Most of them do include some form of struggle or tension.
      How do you do it? Do you just know that it will happen that way?
      Ever created "big miracles"?

    11. #111
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Seeker28, that's awesome how you would do those "little miracles". I might ask you for help with one someday.

      I kind of do something similar to your parking spaces trick. When crossing the street on foot, I almost never have to wait for the lights to change. They just change for me at the perfect time so that I never miss a step. Doesn't work out that way when I'm driving though.

    12. #112
      with the power of 28!! seeker28's Avatar
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      anomanderis at that age I didn't even know what I was doing. I'd never heard of the Law of Attraction. But I just knew if I asked for something and totally believed it would happen, and was excited about it, it happened. I never tried to do anything big. Actually, wait. I guess I have. I got my partner her current job this way. However, it could easily be argued it was because of her qualifications, etc. When she told me she was applying for her job and really wanted it. I knew she needed a job like it, and then I decided she'd get it. After that I just knew she would get it. Even when it took them about 3 months to get back to her about it.

      The Cusp I'd be happy to try it again. I'd like to say I have doubts it would work, but that's not quite true.
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    13. #113
      with the power of 28!! seeker28's Avatar
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      First I'd like to apologize for any spelling errors, etc. I'm having one of my weird days.

      I have been experimenting off and on with dream control as described here. So far I can say I have found all of this to be spot-on.

      control in a semi-LD versus a fully-LD:
      Recently I've had a few LDs that I'd call "completely" lucid -- knew fully that my mind was creating everything I was experienceing. I've been using autosuggestion with the phrase "say 'I'm dreaming' then embrace the possibilities." These recent fully lucid LDs have happened since I starte that autosuggestion. In them I've had perfect or nearly perfect control. The time I had "nearly perfect" control I had to mime climbing a rope to fly up a tree. I think that happened because I often mime that to fly up trees. I've been doing all kings of unusually awesome dream control. Sutuff I usualy have a hard time with or can't do at all. Later when i'm doing bettyer I'll post some dream excerpts here.
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    14. #114
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      Quote Originally Posted by seeker28 View Post
      anomanderis at that age I didn't even know what I was doing. I'd never heard of the Law of Attraction. But I just knew if I asked for something and totally believed it would happen, and was excited about it, it happened. I never tried to do anything big. Actually, wait. I guess I have. I got my partner her current job this way. However, it could easily be argued it was because of her qualifications, etc. When she told me she was applying for her job and really wanted it. I knew she needed a job like it, and then I decided she'd get it. After that I just knew she would get it. Even when it took them about 3 months to get back to her about it.
      I think you pretty much do it in the same way I do. For stuff to happen, I really need to feel good. I don't know why, but maybe because this feeling good makes me think about the term 'inner storm', that I tend to affect the weather when i'm in that state of consciousness.
      Come to think about it... I've been unusually happy a few times recently and its been raining for 2 weeks. Ah, my imagined connections....

    15. #115
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      I think most people feel sad when it's raining/shit day. Dunno the exact reason but I'm guessing coz it's darker and darkness makes you tired; tired = sad because you don't have much energy to do anything.
      So what I'm saying is maybe it's the weather effecting you not the other way round.

    16. #116
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      This is actually the first time I've seen this (interesting) thread, and I don't have time to go through the whole thing yet, so I'll just respond to a few parts of it. Sorry if I only rehash what's already been said.


      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      1. Everything in your dreams requires your attention to exist.


      While this may seem obvious, it's still one of the most basic principles of dreaming. The only things that exist in a dream are things that you are aware of. It's not complete world that you wander around in and explore. As soon as you stop paying attention to something and forget about it, it ceases to exist. If you are in a closed room and can't see the outside, then the outside doesn't exist. When you open to door to go outside, it could lead anywhere, into space or hell or the city of the mole people.

      The point is, nothing exists in your dreams until you become aware of it. Much like Schrodinger's Cat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

      This can be a useful tool I've used effectively in the past to deal enemies while lucid. If you don't pay something any attention, it will cease to exist. Kind of like when your parents told you as a kid to just ignore whoever is bothering you (I hate it when they're right!).

      The skill to be learned here is to learn what things you pay attention to. Ask different people who walked down the same street what they saw, and a bird watcher would tell you about the rare wood pecker he saw, a child would tell you about the playground they passed, your wife would tell you about those shoes on sale, and I would tell you about that girl in the short skirt. What are the things that captivate your attention, and how do these things make you feel? How do they affect your life?

      Some things you pay attention to are beneficial, and some are detrimental. If you are prone to only noticing the bad in people, then interacting with people is going to be a pain in the ass. If you focus more on the good in people, then it can be a rewarding experience.

      You have to learn to selectively ignore the things that don't do you any good, and focus on those things that accomplish your goals. During a dream, the effects of doing so are quite drastic, but practicing this while awake will have echoed results in your dreams, as well as be beneficial to you on several levels in RL.
      Was it you I had a talk with about this, before, Cusp? The whole "does a DC have guts if you can't see them" thing? In either case, it's important to remember that "awareness" has many levels, leading even into subconscious awareness (I'm not saying you disagree, I'm just adding to the context ). So, that is to say, I'm not sure we have to actually see/hear/feel/etc something for it to exist in dreams. I believe that even a subconscious awareness - an activated schema that has not risen to the level of "conscious thought" - can affect a dream.

      I've always found the schema concept fascinating, and I believe that this is how dreams progress (and why they often do so in a seemingly erratic nature). But, for this to be the case, that would mean that schematic concepts that we are not yet actively aware of still hold influence.

      If you are dreaming that you are sitting in your room, with the door closed, one might say that the living room doesn't exist if you're not actively aware of it. But, being in such a familiar setting, your subconscious knows the kitchen is there, even if you're not thinking about it at the time. Does your mind already have some abstraction of the living room model created, ready to be thrown into the context of the dream, upon your walking out of the room? This would make sense, as with word schemas, the mind activates schemas for context even when the particular concept isn't being used.

      For example: If someone says "Dream," the mind would probably activate schemas such as "Bed", "sleep", "night", "lucidity," "nightmare," "flight," etc. Anything that it could associate with "Dream." Even if you're not aware that these words are being gathered by your subconscious, and prepared to throw into the context of conversation, they are.

      So, if the schemas that (I believe) conduct how dreams progress, then it's possible that just the most subtle trigger of a subconscious "living room" schema could create some sort of abstract model of how your mind will present your living room to you, whenever you decide to leave your room and walk into it.

      Technically, you are still "aware," of the living room, before you become consciously attentive to it (albeit subconsciously), but it just makes you wonder exactly how aware of something you actually have to be, before it loses its (to use S. Cat terms) "superposition," and collapses into a solid state.


      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      A Deeper Look at the Effect of Emotions

      Again, I feel emotions deserve a special mention. I'm assuming for the moment that emotions are something that require your attention to exist as well. But I'm not too sure about that at all, and the emotional influence may turn out a third rule. Anyone have any thoughts on weather emotions are something that require your attention to exist, or whether they they are independent entities?

      Emotions are like a filter or like a color lens. Each emotion shapes your dreams in predictable ways, affecting both your surroundings and the behavior of DCs. Anger will cause harsh colors and sharp angles, and my cause DCs to fight or fear you. The effects of fear are obvious, painfully so in dreams.

      Both this Emotional technique and the the Attention technique can be used independently, or in combination with each other. Sometimes it may be better to use one technique over the other. The emotional technique won't change the physical elements as drastically as the Attention technique, but will change the look, feel and mood of the dream, as well as influence DC behavior.

      By practicing this you will begin to notice that DCs are puppets and you are the puppet master, only your emotions are the strings. You can influence the way DCs act, and the types of things they say, but not what they say. It's interesting to note that people in RL react the same way in the presence of strong emotions as do DCs. After the confidence and practice gained from using this in dreams, it would stand to reason that this could be used to influence people in RL as well. It seems people do this all the time anyways, but very clumsily for the most part.

      You must be capable of being able to summon up any emotion at will, and not let the ones that arise naturally to rule you. The benefits of positive emotions are obvious, but even the so called negative emotions have their uses. Anger can often make thing go your way. Even fear could be used to lure someone close, then you switch to a confident rage. But you would have to actually feel the fear, not feign it. And always make sure you are in control of the emotions, not the other way around.

      Strong emotions are best as well. So strong they radiate out from you, or perhaps vibrate would be a more appropriate term. I think this part ties into Aquanina's work with High Vibrational Frequency.

      This can be practiced in dreams, or in RL like a reality check. As with the previous parts, these things become more apparent in RL after you become accustomed to seeing the dramatic effect they have in dreams.
      That is really interesting. I've never really tried manipulating my emotions in dreams. I'm definitely going to have to experiment with that. I will offer that emotions don't necessarily require your attention to exist, but that they can be overwritten. A show I saw two nights ago actually helped convince me that emotions can exist with or without your awareness. It is common in some patients with Tourette's Syndrome to have emotional ticks, along side the well-known physical ticks. A neural firing will automatically flip any emotion on/off in an instant, like a light switch. When the victim snaps out of the tick (in the case of one girl they were talking about, at the least) they may have no recollection of the emotional breakdown they'd just had.

      Also, it has been said that there are nerves in the brain that can be stimulated by (surgical) hand, that can make you break down into tears, or laugh hysterically.

      But, even if they do have the power to "kick in," at involuntary times, I do believe that emotions can be controlled and manipulated, so I'd definitely to play around with that a bit, while dreaming, and see what sort of affects it has on the environment.
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    17. #117
      Member anomanderis's Avatar
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      it seems to work both ways. though for me, rain makes me feel good.
      I haven't noticed this trend with rain that much, since it only started this winter. I was skeptical at first too, but when it started snowing for about the 10th consecutive time when i felt the good feeling, i stopped believing in coincidence.

    18. #118
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      Quote Originally Posted by anomanderis View Post
      I think you pretty much do it in the same way I do. For stuff to happen, I really need to feel good. I don't know why, but maybe because this feeling good makes me think about the term 'inner storm', that I tend to affect the weather when i'm in that state of consciousness.
      Come to think about it... I've been unusually happy a few times recently and its been raining for 2 weeks. Ah, my imagined connections....
      One day I woke up and for no apparent reason, I felt better than I've ever felt before. It was a super intense king of the world feeling, I felt like I could do anything. That alone was an incredible experience.

      But when I left for work, everyone at the bus stop was staring at me. And when I got on the bus and sat near the back, every single person was turned around backwards in their seats and stated at me the whole time I was on the bus. I could even see the driver looking at me in the mirror! The people didn't even seem to be aware they were doing it, like they were mesmerized. I felt too good to care and just let them soak it up. Nobody at work reacted to it and the feeling went away around 11:00.

      Now I know what Jesus felt like. The funny part is, at time that happened, I had hair past my shoulders and my beard (both brown) made me look very Jesus-like.

      Quote Originally Posted by Oneironaut View Post
      Was it you I had a talk with about this, before, Cusp? The whole "does a DC have guts if you can't see them" thing? In either case, it's important to remember that "awareness" has many levels, leading even into subconscious awareness (I'm not saying you disagree, I'm just adding to the context ). So, that is to say, I'm not sure we have to actually see/hear/feel/etc something for it to exist in dreams. I believe that even a subconscious awareness - an activated schema that has not risen to the level of "conscious thought" - can affect a dream.

      I've always found the schema concept fascinating, and I believe that this is how dreams progress (and why they often do so in a seemingly erratic nature). But, for this to be the case, that would mean that schematic concepts that we are not yet actively aware of still hold influence.

      If you are dreaming that you are sitting in your room, with the door closed, one might say that the living room doesn't exist if you're not actively aware of it. But, being in such a familiar setting, your subconscious knows the kitchen is there, even if you're not thinking about it at the time. Does your mind already have some abstraction of the living room model created, ready to be thrown into the context of the dream, upon your walking out of the room? This would make sense, as with word schemas, the mind activates schemas for context even when the particular concept isn't being used.

      For example: If someone says "Dream," the mind would probably activate schemas such as "Bed", "sleep", "night", "lucidity," "nightmare," "flight," etc. Anything that it could associate with "Dream." Even if you're not aware that these words are being gathered by your subconscious, and prepared to throw into the context of conversation, they are.

      So, if the schemas that (I believe) conduct how dreams progress, then it's possible that just the most subtle trigger of a subconscious "living room" schema could create some sort of abstract model of how your mind will present your living room to you, whenever you decide to leave your room and walk into it.

      Technically, you are still "aware," of the living room, before you become consciously attentive to it (albeit subconsciously), but it just makes you wonder exactly how aware of something you actually have to be, before it loses its (to use S. Cat terms) "superposition," and collapses into a solid state.
      I never properly thanked you for introducing me to the concept of schemata, which has been very useful. I generally view it as an AI neural network model, but my attempt at explaining neurons and dendrites and weights didn't pan out too well. It's like you mind is a vast forest full of twisting trails and paths. The more use use certain paths, the more worked in they get and the easier they are to travel. Your dreaming mind is more likely to travel well beaten paths.

      I still think nothing exists until you are experiencing it, or at least focusing on it in some manner. These schemata already exist independently of the dream, they don't require any dreaming attention to sustain. They are a result of everything we've experienced. For dreaming purposes, I like to think of them almost as geographic locations with roads leading to new places.

      I don't always have control over which path I'll take, but I am free to choose which schemata I want to use for change. You don't always have to go for pinpoint accuracy control, a general change of theme is good too. Sometime I change themes several times just to find associations that are useful.
      Last edited by The Cusp; 07-17-2008 at 06:53 PM.

    19. #119
      Member anomanderis's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      One day I woke up and for no apparent reason, I felt better than I've ever felt before. It was a super intense king of the world feeling, I felt like I could do anything. That alone was an incredible experience.

      But when I left for work, everyone at the bus stop was staring at me. And when I got on the bus and sat near the back, every single person was turned around backwards in their seats and stated at me the whole time I was on the bus. I could even see the driver looking at me in the mirror! The people didn't even seem to be aware they were doing it, like they were mesmerized. I felt too good to care and just let them soak it up. Nobody at work reacted to it and the feeling went away around 11:00.

      Now I know what Jesus felt like. The funny part is, at time that happened, I had hair past my shoulders and my beard (both brown) made me look very Jesus-like.
      Hehe,
      Yeah, that's happened to me too, though on a smaller scale. When I'm very happy, I just notice people looking at me and keep looking at me.
      I guess you could call the fact that almost always nobody will sit next to me in a bus (even if its packed) my own little miracles. Or maybe I just creep people out, dunno

    20. #120
      "O" will suffice. Achievements:
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      I never properly thanked you for introducing me to the concept of schemata, which has been very useful.
      My pleasure.

      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      For dreaming purposes, I like to think of them almost as geographic locations with roads leading to new places.
      That's a very interesting analogy - and fitting, I believe. I see what you mean, though. The schema, being an idea or concept, doesn't necessarily have to have any sort of substance, even the minimal amount to exist in a dream. It does still bring into question just how aware of something we have to be, for it to exist in a dream, but I understand what you're saying, when it comes to just a simple schema not necessarily proving to be enough (though it's still in question! Heh).
      http://i.imgur.com/Ke7qCcF.jpg
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    21. #121
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      The Fist Time LDer


      A Newb's Experience with Lucid Dreaming

      Using these rules for dream control requires a balance of attention. This leaves only three outcomes for any newbie dreamer. Achieve a balance, or tip the scale in one direction or the other.

      1. Balance: If a first time LDer begins to interact with his environment right away, then he inadvertently achieves balance as his awareness gets spread around the dream scene. Things seem stable as long as they keep up a steady interaction with the dream.

      2. Introversion:
      The dreams realizes they are dreaming and are so amazed, excited and thrilled by this fact that they focus all their attention on that thought alone. What that implies, the realization of what's happening, what's possible, all these thoughts direct a sudden rush of your awareness inwards to deal with all these mental machinations, which creates a corresponding vacuum in the dream around them. With no attention to sustain it's self, the dream collapses and the dreamer wakes up.

      3. Overkill: Realizing they are dreaming, the dreamer checks things out and something fantastic, bizarre or just plain interesting catches their eye. They go in for a closer look and the directed increase in attention causes that element to grow out of control, demanding even more attention. They get in too deep and don't know how to stop it. The resulting confusion also leads to waking up, which is a form of the second outcome.


      The second two are only pitfalls at the beginning. With practice they become your main tools. The reason it goes so badly at first is because people don't recognize what's happening. It's like giving a loaded gun to a monkey. The monkey doesn't recognize what the gun can do, what it was designed to do. Yet it can still fire the gun, which will probably scare the living shit out of it at the very least!
      Last edited by The Cusp; 07-17-2008 at 09:46 PM.

    22. #122
      with the power of 28!! seeker28's Avatar
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      Oneironaut thank you for the input on the schema. I've been thinking about a recent dream I had.
      I was on a school trip with some recurring DCs. A totally new DC, named Owen was there. He was from a country called Fubaria (hehehee) in Europe. He had come to the USA after escaping the genocide going on over there. He hung out with me and my dream buds. He and I were affectionate, but I didn't all out molest him like I usually would have (I was horney). When we kissed it was always a chaset closed mouth kiss. Later I found out he had been raped.
      I've been trying to figure out how I knew he'd been raped. Or looking for evidence in my dream thinking that indicated I knew. I think I must have known subconsciously and that is why I was so chaste with him. Using the idea of schema I'm easily able to explain my actions. In my mind "rape" and "genocide" are two words/concepts that are linked so closely they are nearly inseperable.

      What do the rest of you think?
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    23. #123
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      I think you're got it exactly right Seeker28. That's a perfect example. Fubaria sounds like it should be the name of a heavy metal band.

    24. #124
      Member anomanderis's Avatar
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      ...or just because I ran into some alien scripture on the 7th floor of the apartment building, I went ahead to summon 2 Others from the gate of Yog-Sothoth!
      In exchange for 2 pigs, but unluckily (or luckily, dunno) we forgot the final part of the summoning...

    25. #125
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by anomanderis View Post
      Hehe,
      I guess you could call the fact that almost always nobody will sit next to me in a bus (even if its packed) my own little miracles. Or maybe I just creep people out, dunno
      I do that as well. I don't think it's about creeping people out, because I'm a very successful hitch hiker.

      Here's a neat bus trick. If you can sit by at least two pretty girls, then any other pretty girls that get on the bus after will cluster around you.

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